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The Band: Live at the Academy of Music 1971

Levon Helm: Ramble at the Ryman

The Band: Three of a Kind

Robbie Robertson: How to Become Clairvoyant

Garth Hudson Presents a Canadian Celebration of The Band

Levon Helm: Electric Dirt

Garth and Maud Hudson: Live at the Wolf

Pulse

Dirt Farmer

Elliot Landy's Woodstock Vision

The Band Guestbook, February 2003

Below are the entries in the Band guestbook from February 1-28 2003.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 23:15:02 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Numbers

Thank you one and all for your kind words. I realized later after running those AOL numbers through again that it shows up on perhaps a dozen people in the guestbook. The first one I found kind of freaked me out and it wasn't anyone here that has responded to me. Onward and upward. Dexy it runs tomorrow morning at approx 7:40 at www.cfrb.com You have to download Surfnet to here it. Surfnet provides all kind of radio listening and is totally safe and not buggy.

My producer told me this afternoon he edited it from approx 20 minutes down to 8. I hope much of the good stuff is still in tact. I believe he may have cut back on some of the answers which were quite wordy and would be fine if it were a documentary instead of a brief conversation. Anyway some will enjoy some will not. Take care all and thanks. I've interviewed Levon many times and look forward to his returning to Toronto and coming in for a chat. ALso hoping to see the Barnburners in April in Memphis when I go down for the opening of the Stax Records Museum. Booker T & The MG's will perform on May 2nd.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 23:08:41 CET 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Posted by:

Bones

Great job! You found out more in twenty minutes than most of us could. I have had the pleasure of seeing Robbie about once or twice a year, and every time I come off as a babbling fan I'm sure. I am thrilled that he is thinking about releasing the soundtrack to Raging Bull. Robbie and Garth did some great work on that movie. Hope I get to see a transcript of the interview. Thanks for sharing!


Entered at Fri Feb 28 23:02:23 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny
Web: My link

Subject: Springsteen & Dylan & Electric Violins

Mike Carrico: I spelled her name wrong on my earlier post, but Suki Lahav is sort of legendary among Springsteen afficianados and you can click the link for a list of all her shows with Springsteen. I saw one in Gaithersburg, Maryland in 1974 and just learned that I was actually at her last concert with the E Street Band (the one you mention at Constitution Hall in Washington, DC). It's interesting to see that Springsteen covered Dylan's "I Want You" while Lahav was in his band, but dropped the song when she quit the band and moved to Israel.

I wonder if Dylan caught the Lahav-era E Streeters and was inspired to add Scarlet Riviera for his Rolling Thunder tour. It brings to mind that line about being "famous long ago for playing electric violin...on Desolation Row."


Entered at Fri Feb 28 22:55:32 CET 2003 from du-tele3-158.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.158)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Ice-nine

I can't think of any other kind of skating, it's true, but I guess ice-dancing (the UK speciality) and figure-skating is OK? As to basketball, my new sports psychology service is ready to give advice on this. The first thing, it's a girls' game called netball here. And my main advice to participants in the boys' version is "Be Tall." (That's $60).


Entered at Fri Feb 28 22:46:20 CET 2003 from hse-toronto-ppp3483688.sympatico.ca (65.92.93.81)

Posted by:

Cousin Paul

Location: Niagara Falls Canada

Subject: G-Man

G, Friday,March, 7, Blue Rodeo, The Tralf, Hope to see you. I will be in the usual spot, stool at the back, by the glass bricks. (Almost sounds romantic!!!!)


Entered at Fri Feb 28 22:27:30 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

BobW: Don't forget my namesake, Bill Plager, also of the early Blues. My favourite Plager moment is when one of them cleanly hipchecked an opposing winger right over the boards. Otherwise, all the best checks were delivered by Leo Boivin.

BEG mentioned the Tragically Hip song about Bill Barilko, the gist of which is mythic enough to bear repeating: Bill's last goal for the Leafs won them the Stanley Cup (ca 1950); he was killed a couple of months later when his little plane went down in Northern Ontario; the Leafs didn't win another Cup until the year the remains of the missing plane were found in the bush.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 22:07:57 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

Location: Toronto

Fred: Don't you think that PeterV went and compounded his error by calling it "ice skating", as if there's any other way!

Rudiment: Thanks.

As for the aboriginal issue, raised in the clipping that MikeN was good enough to post, the guy with the C on his left chest during the Leafs' glory years of the early '60s, when our guys would certainly have been watching, was the much loved George Armstrong, who EVERYONE knew was a full-blooded "Indian" (which was the only term used at the time). Looking back on it now, I realise that a good number of my schoolmates were mixed race (various mixtures of various races), but as far as I know nobody- certainly not the kids - thought about it. For the adults I'm sure it was one of those don't-ask don't-tell things - which is certainly not to say that bigotry didn't exist then and there.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 22:06:25 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Hockey Tock

Fred, it's unlikely Chris will get an opoortunity to play beyond high school but not completely out of the question. We'll see. He's got another year at this level. He's been blessed to travel a bit as a result of hockey. The longest journey was to Finland a few years back to play in an international tournament that included teams from Finland, Sweden,Norway, Russia and the U.S. We also participated in a tournament in Lake Placid that was wonderful. Chris played on the 1980 rink and I was as emotional as Dads get while he was pretty much oblivious to the fact. I'm dead certain he has no idea how lucky he is to have taken part in such events. He's young. He'll figure it out.

BEG, it would be fool's argument to say Clarkie didn't earn his "chippy" reputation but he was always the player the fans around the league despised while we loved him. Very much the way I felt about Pete Rose during his days with the Reds. When he put on the Phillies uniform we couldn't have been happier. Dave Schultz was a result of our first five years or so in the league playing whipping boys to established clubs and the regular whuppin' those Plager brothers, Bobby and Barclay, used to put on us when the Blues were in town. As an eighteen year old, all full of piss and vinegar, I must admit I enjoyed the bedlam for a few seasons.

I never gave much thought to how many hockey fans might run in this crowd when it should have been obvious. I think it's a great game but just hasn't cut it on television although I've heard a lot of raves about watching it in high-def. It really is a game you need to see live. Speed, power, finesse, guile, courage and a host of other characteristics are all revealed. I've always dug the visual aspects as well. Stark white ice, brightly colored uniforms, it's a fun game to watch.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 22:03:14 CET 2003 from garco.cpe.newsouth.net (64.90.4.86)

Posted by:

Mike Carrico

Subject: Violins in the E Street

Charlie Y - thanks for posting the name of Bruce's violin player from days of yore - was that the Constitution Hall show? She lent a haunting & mysterious air to the proceedings, and Bruce would extract himself from his stage personna and gaze reverently in her direction whenever her playing came to the fore. Can't think of a Band link other than seeing Rick play a similar instrument on the same stage five years earlier.

How did you find out her name & what ever became of her? Just wondering...


Entered at Fri Feb 28 22:02:24 CET 2003 from tnt2-164-165.cac.psu.edu (130.203.164.165)

Posted by:

Tony

Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Subject: The Band "Anthology II"

I'm looking for a photo of the album cover "Anthology II". I have a music collection management program that I'd like to cut and paste this into it. I can't seem to locate any reference to this album. The cover is nearly identical to "Anthology I", except it has different tracks on it. Can anyone shed some light on this.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 21:42:33 CET 2003 from h-68-164-225-236.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.225.236)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Todd, I doubt C-Blues will ever see the light of day. I saw a bootleg and it was, uhhhhhhhh, interesting.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 21:14:29 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

John D: Bob W's comment applies to me as well... that AOL number has popped up on some of my archived posts... but I'm not the guy... btw, I fall in that wierd box... that tries to empathize with whatever good it is that each member offers (and I haven't had to work hard at it either)... and feel each has been faithful to his calling to provide us kickass musical experiences... I love 'em all for MY OWN reasons... and don't consider myself whimpish for not aligning with any "ista" or "ontonian" or "ish" (and that goes for the Crows, BBs, Gurus, orig or reformed, revisited or wrongly portrayed, etc, and onward)... I am a "Z", spelled Z, o yeh, du du du do da... In fact one of the pleasures of this place has been the diversity provided by each member... adding depth for me to my process of contually rediscovering the great musical legacy... that I recontinue to discover... and explore... the legical musacy... which I would like to comment further on along with as well as my 2 cents on those cowards who don't use their own names when going neg... but I'm engulfed in paint fumes right now... and need to wash up my brushes... and another thing, I don't spell out my last name here because well, when I told my father-in-law I thought it was a German name, he responded it was probably Russian Jew... which I looked up and proceeded to find out has the meaning... mud... so there you go... I guess I'm a mud person... though I hear blood in Dixie too... so well, I'm pretty clueless right now... but damn it Viney, get with the program, it's basketball that's most relevant in the good ole United of Super Americas... Having said all that or nothing at all... my vehicle mileage seems to suggest a preference...


Entered at Fri Feb 28 21:03:58 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: new mexico

reading that Kay posted from New Mexico, reminded me of "up on cripple creek". my cousin and his wife, currently residing in los cruces n.m., bought a miners shack in truth or consequnences n.m. where they plan on retiring. i know he's a huge Band fan, great record collection, as well as teacher and author of native american history as pertaining to the four corners. got to get there soon.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 20:57:46 CET 2003 from sttn-sh4-port144.snet.net (204.60.44.144)

Posted by:

Todd Atkinson

Location: Connecticut

Subject: Pat Brennan/Rolling Stones

Pat: Is C*ocks*cker Blues commercially available? I've heard and read about it over the years, but have never been able to find it anywhere. I believe that there are snippets of it in the Stones doc. "25x5" but it would be great to see it in its entirety. Thanks in advance for any info.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 20:21:38 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: Dylan / Big Lebowski

John Cass: The Dylan song "The Man In Man" in the "big Lebowski" soundtrack is from the "New Morning" album.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 20:01:49 CET 2003 from h-68-164-229-49.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.229.49)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

The remaing two movie were A Great Day in Harlem and Buena Vista Social Club. Recall the list was music doc's. Mad Dogs was a great movie for sure.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 19:03:49 CET 2003 from wwwcache.lanl.gov (128.165.156.80)

Posted by:

Kay

Location: NM

Subject: RR interview

At RR's press conference at the Santa Fe Film Festival in December, the first confrontational question ended the session. In our case, somebody had to ask about Levon since that was the focus of the press coverage and he deserved the opportunity to respond. If somebody had a 20-minute radio show to fill, the brevity of the event would have been a problem.

Personally, I didn't care much because I have never cared for RR. (BTW, that is not because I'm a Levonista, though I am. I disliked RR long before Levon did.) Photographer Lisa Law's daughter who was standing next to me asked him about a "fan club" and he said "I think there's a few groups on the web, I haven't checked." So I take it he's never visited this site, but I wouldn't bet on it.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 18:49:01 CET 2003 from citrix6.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.4)

Posted by:

John Cass

Location: VT

Subject: Pat

Pat.... was there any mention of Joe Cocker's Mad Dogs And Englishman???? which is a personal favorite of mine...


Entered at Fri Feb 28 18:43:37 CET 2003 from (65.88.119.254)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: John D

John D, I am sure you have many more supporters then detractors so please don't take the crap to heart. As much as I love the history, I am much more interested in the future.

Please be sure to post a transcript if you can.

The GB community should feel privilaged to have preliminary access to this type of info as provided by many of the subject matter experts that are part of this community.

Regards!


Entered at Fri Feb 28 18:38:55 CET 2003 from 223.64.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.64.223)

Posted by:

Dexy

Subject: John D

John, is there any way the interview can be available on line, either here at Jan's or at your station? Would love to hear or read it. Thanks.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 18:28:25 CET 2003 from h-68-164-229-49.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.229.49)

Posted by:

pat brennan

Front page of the Chicago Tribune Movie section today lists the top 5 music documentaries. TLW comes in third behind Woodstock and Gimme Shelter (I prefer C*cks*cker Blues for a real insight into the Stones). All three get 4 stars and TLW is deemed, "The greatest rock concert movie ever made--and maybe the best rock movie, period."


Entered at Fri Feb 28 18:19:28 CET 2003 from citrix6.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.4)

Posted by:

John Cass

Location: VT

Subject: John D

John D... I am sure you did a great job... your a pro and know what your doing.... don't let some of these people who are going to throw their "who asked ya two-cents" in...

just another example of someone who is a wealth of information on The Band has some info he thought we would all like to hear and there goes people talking crap about it...

In the movie The Great Labowski.... that Dylan tune is off from which album????... great song first time I had ever heard it last weekend..


Entered at Fri Feb 28 18:14:47 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: RR interview

I think we should keep in mind that John D. was interviewing Robbie Robertson for the general audience of his radio station, rather than for the guestbook readers. Although many of his listeners may be familiar with The Band, they may not be that knowledegable of the details of the group's history. Given the time limitations, one can only delve so deep without going beyond the audience's perspective.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 18:12:10 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny
Web: My link

Subject: Jackson Browne & Springsteen

Nancy: thanks for that excellent review of the Jackson Browne concert there in Australia. It's nice to hear that one of the best comtemporaries of The Band is still alive and well and keeping his music on the international circuit where it belongs.

Another survivor from the same era will have his first network television special tonight on CBS here in the USA and hopefully others will see it around the world as well. Click the link for more details about the Bruce Springsteen and E Street Band one hour live broadcast tonight. It's interesting to see Springsteen using "special guest violinist" Soozie Tyrell since I recall a woman named Sukhi Lahav playing violin in his band when I first saw them back in 1974 (I don't think he's used a violinist in his band since then).


Entered at Fri Feb 28 18:05:33 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: John D's interview

Perhaps a generous person could provide us a transcript....


Entered at Fri Feb 28 17:54:25 CET 2003 from h-68-164-229-49.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.229.49)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

John D, if someone hides behind IP numbers and doesn't have the fortitude to sign his/her name to that kind of public criticism, especially in the inane and childish form that it took, then don't bother with it. It is an opinion that means absolutely nothing.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 17:26:07 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: like you say, eez jus beesness

now vlad the impaler, when playing for the Deroit Red Wings, was the best. i heard about all the evil things he was doing, so i watched, and grew to admire his specialty, done with a serious face and twinkle in his eye. i was very sad to see his career cut short.

Peter Viney--hockey player Steve Thomas isht ein englander me tinks.

BEG--Robbie definitly most eloquent, post i read down below(todays gb) , confirms a talent he surely has, and that it just wasn't pulled out of a hat.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 16:43:23 CET 2003 from dialup-65.58.221.97.dial1.portland1.level3.net (65.58.221.97)

Posted by:

Pete

Now here's a connection for the hockey and Philadelphia folks: /n "ice hockey" is the equivalent social error (faux pas, I think, for the Gretzy hockey types; certainly not the Don Cherry's) as "cheese steak sandwich."


Entered at Fri Feb 28 16:41:51 CET 2003 from du-tele3-137.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.137)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Well said, Calvin!

On hockey, we get a bit sore around here over anything to do with sport on ice. Though in the UK we generally prefer dancing in tight trousers and tutus on ice to hitting pucks at people in bulky costumes. We have a huge ice-rink in the town centre that has been closed and festering in decay for 10 or 12 years or more, which means that we were unable to enjoy the sudden interest in (ice) hockey in the UK a few years ago. I don't even know what happened to that league and if it's still going. They used to have pantomimes on ice, summer ice dance shows etc. No one's made any effort to re-open it, so it's possibly uneconomic. When I was a teenager it was a popular venue for rock music while people were skating, and this was a DJ and records a good 5 or 6 years before discos started squeezing out live music. I can't see ice-skating without Gene Vincent and Eddie Cochran sounding in my ears.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 15:50:50 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Calvin

Subject: John D's Interview

John, I own a couple of Camera shops, unless I somehow insult you as a customer I owe you no explanation of how I run my stores. In the same vein you dont owe anyone in the GB an explanation of why you as a professional journalist conduct an interview the way you do. If they wanted to do if differently they should have become a journalist.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 15:34:30 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.235)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: John D.

John D., please note that those same numbers appear as my IP address from my home computer and I can assure you those posts certainly didn't come from me. I believe those proxy AOL IP's are shared.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 14:41:16 CET 2003 from (203.14.169.19)

Posted by:

Nancy

Subject: Jackson Browne

Hi Woodlark: I saw (and heard) Jackson Browne in Perth, Western Australia, last Sunday night. It was the first time I've seen him play, and I was awestruck. Sounded good; looked like a young man although he can't be that any longer; funny and warm towards the crowd. He did old and new numbers, with what appeared to be no weariness with reproducing old crowd favourites. They were done well. Someone yelled for "The Load Out" and "Stay" early in the concert and he replied that he couldn't do them yet as he and his band were "genetically programmed to leave the stage" once they'd done those songs. Maybe he says that at every concert but it was funny even if so.

It was a beautiful outdoor venue with a shallow lake in front of the stage that ensured a good view for all, including the many ducks that swam in constant circles, either stunned by the invasion or mesmerised by the beauty of his singing. Towards the end of the concert, members of the audience decided to take over paddling in the lake and all the ducks were frightened away. Jackson observed to the crowd that it was a metaphor for what's happening all over the planet.

I drove the two hour trip home alone to the sound of his new CD "The Naked Ride Home" which I'd bought at the concert, and couldn't get the sound of his voice out of my head for the rest of that night, including when I was asleep. In case you haven't guessed, I was impressed.

I hope he plays near you, Woodlark, SOON!

And buy the album too.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 13:49:30 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Don't Leave because of one pendejo

John, consider the source....one du cul does not a guestbook reflect. Take care and be well


Entered at Fri Feb 28 13:05:15 CET 2003 from 70.ppp132.rsd.worldonline.se (213.204.132.70)

Posted by:

Woodlark

Location: Nordic Countries
Web: My link

Subject: Van Morrison/Jackson Browne/To Helena Ribbing

VAN MORRISON - cancelled tomorrow in Stockholm. Next man is JACKSON BROWNE. Has anyone in gb heard him lately?

To HELENA RIBBING, Stockholm Sweden: Hej, trevligt att se här även någon från Sverige! There are some regulars from Nordic Countries who post in this discussion forum. Yes, this is a Norwegian site and situated in Østfold College near the Swedish border. To get more information of the maintainer of the site Mr. Jan Høiberg you should follow the links on this site or visit the site of the College http://www.hiof.no
One of the best articles on this site is Swedish and written by Lennart Persson. It tells about a rumoured Band album "Turkey Scratch". Not a single word is true in this article but it is a funny history alltogether.
My link is "only" my vCard.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 12:48:59 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Peter V: it's never, never, never, never referred to as ICE hockey.....only hockey. The "other" one IS always called field hockey . However this rule only applies to Canada and several of the northern states of the Union; the rest of the world says "ice hockey" (I cringe when I say that) while "hockey" means the field variety. That's why the world is in the shape it is today, the rest of the world calls the wrong hockey just "hockey", while persisting in calling the right hockey "ice hockey" (I don't know which sounds worse: fingernails on a blackboard or the term "ice hockey")

I liked your Bournemouth story!


Entered at Fri Feb 28 11:49:58 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Joe

Subject: Annual Thread

Rest in peace Mr. Ed. 24 years ago today. To soon gone


Entered at Fri Feb 28 11:39:58 CET 2003 from du-tele3-139.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.139)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Interview / sports psychology

Sounds absolutely right to me, John. Stuff about what's coming up and what's current is more interesting than raking over the coals - we do that here anyway! I'll see if I can get it streaming on Saturday (I never have much luck with that kind of thing due to slow creaky connections). On 'Gangs of New York' I now keep hearing about Jocelyn Pook whose Dionysius he used for the OST. Just ahead of the game, as usual!

Al Edge: I am now going into business as a Sports psychologist. Danny Murphy (moonlighting in this alt-country band) no doubt saw our debate on his future career yesterday. So what happens? He goes out and scores and was reviewed this morning as "work-rate personified". Sounds like he was man-of-the-match. I'm sure it was your shouts of 'We're selling you to Bournemouth, Spud!' that inspired his activity and Liverpool's victory. So Viney Sports Psychology Services International is now open for business. I'm going down to Borders to buy a book of rules later as I don't quite understand American Football, Baseball or Hockey yet. Is this ice-hockey or the hockey played on grass? I vaguely recalling England winning an Olympic medal for the latter. Isn't this quite a dangerous game? Anyway, I'll read it up later and offer advice.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 08:08:52 CET 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp189966.sympatico.ca (64.229.1.125)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Yeah.....and he was one of the dirtiest players around.....He really knew how to use his stick....didn't he?......Nooooo.....it was his elbows in fact....Nooooo....his stick......Anyway.....He was a very fiesty Canadian who was known in the league as the "chipiest" player.....from Western Canada....so....must have been his stick play.....and Schultz.....I don't even want to go there......;-D = Teasing......Btw....A Canadian invented Basketball as well.........We have Steve Nash to prove it......lol..........

John D:.....I'm so glad that you were able to sit down and reason with Robbie! If you had just told me the place.....I told ya....I would have skipped class......I did it for the Jim Weider Band.....Fave song from Bearsville CD...."Freedom Walk".....and "Grass Is Always Greener"...Barn Burners......

Violent Femmes.....Love two songs from CD produced by Talking Heads.....Jerry Harrison.....who btw.....studied architecture at the Rhode Island School Of Design.....Fave Violent Femmes.....The Blind Leading The Blind...1986..."Good Friend" and "Two People"....1982...Violent Femmes..."Blister In The Sun"..."Please Do Not Go"..."Prove My Love"..."Gone Daddy Gone"..."Good Feeling"...Add It Up"..."Kiss Off".......

I'm thinking of two people
that I could love
oh momma make me feel so good
which ever I think of
oh and I know
it don't seem like I have that much
to give
we could find a foreign place
where we could live

"Two People"...Violent Femmes....Ah yes...real dilemma....


Entered at Fri Feb 28 08:05:39 CET 2003 from dialup-65.58.153.201.dial1.portland1.level3.net (65.58.153.201)

Posted by:

Pete

Wigo--forget not when Bobby took a puck to the forehead, was bleeding profusely, and then had to be ejected both from the face off circle and the game so he could get medical attention.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 07:50:14 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Yawn & Ol no name

I apologize first off. I have no right to judge because I wasn't in your position. I'm just a fan. I don't want dirt i.e. "the songwriting issue" but a question like "how did rick's passing affect you musically?" or "What did you think of Jericho?" or "did you really want the band to do storyville?" would have been cool. This is in addition to the questions about his producing career. Maybe you did ask questions along this line. I couldn't tell from your post and I was wrong to jump on you. Anyway nobody from the mainstream ever asks RR these questions. That's what I was hoping for from you. Possibly one day I'll get the chance. Take care.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 07:40:12 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: AOL 152.163.188.165

I just did some "looking back" in the archives to find the aol person with the numbers 152.163.188.165 and I gotta tell you......now that I know......you might as well have used a dirty knife. Thought you knew me much better than that. Obviously you don't know how I work things without giving it all away. I don't know what to say. Our mutual good friend certainly knows me better. I have to take an immediate hiatus. I wish I hadn't checked.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 07:29:24 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Bob Wigo: well, okay, you can leave the penalty box....only because you downed a few with the Hammer and lived to tell!! I heard that song once....and because I value my life I won't make any derogatory remarks about Mister Schultz' foray into music :) Is your son going to continue with hockey after high school? (I don't mean to sound nosy)


Entered at Fri Feb 28 07:21:55 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: AOL ACCOUNT

Boy someone is really having some fun with an aol account doing a number on me. I tend to address things that I should really let lie; but just this once........or twice.......or

First to "Yawn." You're right........ if your not a fan of The Band it is indeed a "yawn". Secondly to "ol' no name" who is of course yawn (152.163.188.165) your point is well taken. It was, not in my opinion a sweetheart piece because some of the questions were difficult. I hope my producer leaves them in. I will say he was very forth coming and didn't shy away from anything "on" or "off" mike. The only "change" I made in my itinerary was to leave some things for off mike. I believe it was a good choice for many reasons that I will not go into.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 07:14:00 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Muckers and Grinders

Fred, I accept the two minutes graciously as I am a dyed in the wool Flyers fan. Only three weeks back I had a few with Dave Schultz, Bob Kelly, Jim and Joe Watson and a few others after a Flyers alumni game.

Speaking of hockey songs, Dave Schultz recorded an incredibly bad "Baby How Long Can You Keep Me In Your Penalty Box?" back in the seventies. The only reason no one really breaks his stones about it is he is still in great shape and still looks like The Hammer of old. Hockey is near and dear to me as my son has been playing since he was four and now, closing in on seventeen, is a pretty good varsity player at his high school. I'm going to hate to see it end.

I was just busting a bit on The Flower. Anyone who makes his living in the NHL deserves tons of respect. In my opinion there is no trophy in professional sports more difficult to win than the Stanley Cup. The playoffs are truly a war of attrition.

For the record my favorite player of all time was Bobby Clarke who regularly received standing ovations at the Spectrum for his demonic forechecking. He played every shift like it might be his last.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 06:43:44 CET 2003 from dialup-65.58.154.38.dial1.portland1.level3.net (65.58.154.38)

Posted by:

Pete

Rollie, your article might add that the folks on the street will come to understand that the only way to defy those with the mass weapons of destruction is to gather their own. Surely, that will make for a safer block, much as the analog will create a safer world. Also, to reach back to the story, the guy should be sure to slowly strip away constitutional rights of his family. They won't know it because they've been taught to be afraid of everything, including neighbors whom those who live next to them don't fear.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 06:37:10 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Ol no name

Quote from John D. "Tomorrow I sit down with RR for the first time in 11 years for an interview. I admit that earlier interviews from the 70's & 80's that I had done.....the Band fan in me got in the way and you end up with what is called in the business, a "sweetheart" interview. Lucky for me I grew up and plan to ask some tougher questions tomorrow along with the planned new Band box etc. Want to ask first hand about many of the truths and or myths that appear in this guestbook over and over again."

I guess old habits are hard to break. Right or wrong...


Entered at Fri Feb 28 06:36:42 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

Thanks John D... sounds like you did a great job... and I knew you'd take the high road like a real pro... but I was hoping and rooting for you to get some off the record answers to give you some comfort... not that you could divulge anything if you did...


Entered at Fri Feb 28 06:15:34 CET 2003 from dialup-67.28.37.41.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.28.37.41)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

John D, congratulations on the interview and well done on taking the high road.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 05:25:55 CET 2003 from hse-toronto-ppp179350.sympatico.ca (64.229.86.177)

Posted by:

Mark

Location: Between Trains

Subject: Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe

Bobby Orr and Gordie Howe. They are both fine gentlemen. When are we going to get Between Trains. On a cd?


Entered at Fri Feb 28 05:22:06 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Bayou Sam: I'm afraid to say, but the penalty box awaits you too.....2 minutes for disparging the great game of Hockey (which could do with less of the goonery and more of the flair)!


Entered at Fri Feb 28 05:18:48 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: He shoots, he scores!

Ah hockey! All this talk about hockey brings back memories.....Hockey Night In Canada (anyone know how I can get my hands on the original version of the theme song?), collecting and trading hockey cards (which my mom made me throw away---along with the baseball cards---- when we moved to Europe. Why do mothers do that?!?!?); watching the '72 Summit Series. Watching the way the Russians played..mesmerizing. We got to watch the final game at school...all the boys in my 4th grade class went nuts when Paul Henderson scored THAT goal...all the girls thought we were weird!!;playing road hockey..that seen from Wayne's World, where Wayne and Garth are playing hockey in the street and every other minute it's "CAR" always brings a tear to my eye. Oddly enough, when we used to play soccer on our street in Italy we'd yell the same thing, albeit in Italian, when a car approached.

Browned Eyed Girl: that Tragically Hip song is phenomenal, don't you think? Good choice about Bobby Orr, too!

Bob Wigo & John W: 5 minutes each in the penalty box for making disparging comments about The Flower; Bob Wigo YOU get an extra 2 for being a Broad Street Bullies fan, while John W., luckily for you, you are saved from extra time in the box because of your admiration for Mike Bossy (who idolized Guy Lafluer)

JTull: you lucky stiff. on two counts... (1)Gordie Howe's autograph!! (2) the Yankees got Hideki Matsui

John D: can that interview of yours be heared over the internet, also do you think the station will archive it?


Entered at Fri Feb 28 05:12:11 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Thanks for the info John D. I'm going to try and check out the interview.

Hockey = It never did anything for me. A bunch of guys beating the hell out of each other. Even when the Islanders were winning all those cups here - nothing. Opening Day is getting closer - now that's excitment. Go Yanks.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 04:17:40 CET 2003 from mcha-ai045.taconic.net (205.231.28.45)

Posted by:

Lil

Good job John! Even though ol no name down there is yawning, I think you made the right decision to keep the interview on a professional level. This guestbook would've been very good conversation for you and Robbie over a few beers or something, but in the studio, for your listeners.. you done good just the way you done it!

Have a good night everyone. Hug Jan.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 03:39:47 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

RR Interview

YAWN...


Entered at Fri Feb 28 03:27:31 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: BEG / RR

By the way the question about instrumentals (guitar) and so on came from an idea that BEG put out there. I have to give her credit for the inspiration for that question.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 03:24:24 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Robbie Robertson

The interview went very well. I was the only radio person he spoke to and I got about 20 minutes. It went by very quickly. My time was limited and there was a lot to cover therefore I did not get into the guestbook at all.

I began with talk about the difference between being a "soundtrack composer, producer" vs a music supervisor. Knowing what song to plug in where. He gave me a good explanation of that and then mentioned that he is finally putting out the soundtrack from Raging Bull; which was never released.

I mentioned the fact that he has gone very "deep" with his last few albums regarding going back to his roots......etc. I told him how much I enjoyed the instrumental version of "Out of The Blue" from Any Given Sunday 2 and said "Have you thought about going back to a "guitar based" album where for a change you just have some fun!" He told me that was a good idea and actually had some other instrumentals in the can and it might be an idea to put kind of a funky R&B "Toronto Sound" type of album which he was known for in the early days.

We talked about re-release of TLW. The future of Audio DVD and the upcoming Band Box which he is doing. In his words doing it "right" this time. The interview with more detail of course will run Saturday morning around 7:40 am Eastern time at www.cfrb.com

I was talking to Diamond Lil tonight about the content of the interview in depth and as she pointed out..."If you were in a bar and talking about this and that, you could bring up some of the things that go on here in the guestbook over and over again;" but you have to realize that in a professional interview situation and with limited time, I needed to keep it on the subjects that were important from a musical viewpoint as opposed to what happens here many times in the guestbook and yes I have been part of it and that is "tabloid talk." Didn't go there. It was my decision right or wrong.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 03:15:34 CET 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp190146.sympatico.ca (64.229.2.51)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Hockey and Music

Bill: My Ma will love to hear that you mentioned her all time fave hockey player....Big M....I guess growing up with hockey my fave was Dave Keon....but skill wise I admired Bobby Orr......Wow.....His skating was poetry in motion.....and Mario Lemieux the most.....It's ironic that my older brother's fave hockey team was.....The Hawks!....and he never liked The Band or Dylan.....LOL.....

Fave Hockey song...."Hockey Song" by Canada's Tragically Hip...
I saw them at one of the Hawk Tributes and at the Concert For Afghanistani Refugees....They literally own any stage they perform on....They also sing "Fifty- Mission Cap" about Bill Barilko...I also hear Warren Zevon sings about Hockey as well.....

"If there's a goal that everyone remembers it was back in '72 (Yup! We got out of school early just to watch the game at home...Afterall...we lived by the Grand River...not far from the Native Reserve Robbie would visit)
..........
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
I never saw anyone say that before".....

Yeah....Gord Downie is a huuuuuge hockey fan.....I also used to check out the pluses and minuses of players....

Daniel Lanois and Robbie this weekend for me!....I'd like to ask Daniel to put a guitar back in Robbie's beau....ti....ful hands......and maybe I'll get a chance to ask Robbie if he still has the Leaf sweater.....and.....and.....Sorry if I'm too excited...Music and Hockey.....I'm Canadian....lol


Entered at Fri Feb 28 02:25:58 CET 2003 from dialin-1151-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.5.135)

Posted by:

Gene

Bobby Orr with The Chief in the crease...now you're talking!


Entered at Fri Feb 28 02:18:36 CET 2003 from (207.230.140.240)

Posted by:

Curt Copealnd

Location: Minneapolis
Web: My link

Subject: My trip pics

Glad y'all got to enjoy the story/pics it was the best time of our lives!

One thing I forgot to include in my story was while on drive back home, we paused off in Chicago and stopped into The Chicago Music Exchange on Clark Street a few blocks from Wrigley. Thay have the most incredible collection of vintage guitars/basses I have ever seen. There I got to play several instruments related to The Band.

1. An Ampeg AUB-2 fretless bass just like Rick's. You'll recognize it as the one he uses on The Weight in The Last Waltz. You can see a picture of one here:

http://www.xstrange.com/aeb2main.html

2. A very rare Gibson harp guitar like Robbie used for the "The Last Waltz Theme". When I hit the first chord of that song and chills ran down my spine...click below to see one.

http://home.earthlink.net/~minermusic/charliebrown.htm

3. A Gibson style "O" guitar from the scene where Richard, Rick and Robbie play "Old Time Religion" in The Last Waltz. Click below for a pic.

http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Outlet/5613/archtop.html

Dave, thanks for the tip on those groups to catch, shoot me an e-mail if you know when/where they play.

curtcopeland@clearchannel.com


Entered at Fri Feb 28 01:45:04 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: SMOKEY JOE'S CAFE IS ON TONIGHT!

Guys...Smokey Joe's Cafe:The music of Leiber and Stoller is on HBO signature tonight at 9 PM EST. If you didn't see it on Broadway this is a must see show for ANYONE who loves good music!!!

Take care and be well


Entered at Fri Feb 28 01:17:21 CET 2003 from sunpub.com (205.210.170.48)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Subject: Robbie

More from Canadian Press, file moved Thursday ex Toronto . . .

As a young child growing up in southern Ontario, Robbie Robertson never gave his Mohawk heritage a second thought. He was too busy trying to become a virtuoso on the guitar. He’d take the instrument everywhere he went, including the bathroom, trying to master the chords so he could get noticed by the music industry.

And by the time Robertson was hanging out with Bob Dylan in 1965, being aboriginal was considered hip. “By then it was like, 'Oh, Indians (short pause), Indians are cool.' We’ve now entered into this phase of it. It was no longer, 'I’m sorry you’ll have to wait in the car,’ ” he recalled with a smirk.

The Toronto-born music legend, who currently resides in L.A., was reminiscing about his early days while in town helping to promote the country’s Aboriginal Achievement Awards on March 28, where he’ll being honoured for his lifetime work. He’s also going to be speaking Saturday at Canadian Music Week, a music conference and showcase.

Robertson says that at 16, he was too busy trying to make it in the competitive music field to notice if anyone was bothered by his background. “I was obsessed (with making it). I was on the verge of being dangerously devoted,” he explained in a deliberately slow manner of speaking. “I just didn’t want to buy into any of that (discrimination). Besides it might have disturbed the mission that I was on. I was in complete denial if there were any problems.”

Robertson was discovered playing in Toronto bars by rockabilly singer Ronnie Hawkins, who’d come to Canada from Arkansas hoping to launch his own career. He played on Hawkins’ tracks Hey Boba Lu and Someone Like You before officially joining his backup group, The Hawks. They evolved into The Band after being recruited in 1965 for Bob Dylan’s tour. In 1974, the group launched a successful career with a series of hit records and singles. The Band’s last concert in 1976 was attended by a host of rock and blues performers including Joni Mitchell, Muddy Waters and Van Morrison and captured on film as The Last Waltz, by famed director Martin Scorsese.

Robertson went on to have a lucrative career as a solo singer and songwriter. Many can’t forget his haunting 1987 hit Somewhere Down The Crazy River from his Grammy nominated solo self-titled debut. In his work as producer he’s overseen albums by such notables as Neil Diamond. He’s also done extensive work on movie soundtracks, having scored Oliver Stone’s Any Given Sunday and supervised the music for Scorsese’s Raging Bull, King of Comedy and most recently Gangs of New York.

Born to a Jewish father and Mohawk mother, Robertson divided his time growing up between the city and the Six Nations Reserve near Brantford, Ont. “There was a sense of `Be proud that you’re an Indian, but be careful who you tell.’ I was in complete denial if there was any problem, and probably the denial led me to a place of just going after what I thought my calling was and not thinking about (barriers).

“It meant me just plunging forward in this and thinking `well, I’ll just talk about it later,’ ” he says with a deep chuckle. “I wasn’t an Indian activist, I was just wanting to play rock and roll.”

And now? In the later half of his career, his native roots have been more prominently displayed, from his 1994 album The Native Americans (the songs were composed for a documentary) to 1998’s Contact From The Underworld of Redboy and his riveting performance at the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics.

Currently a creative director at the music branch of Steven Spielberg’s Dreamworks where he helps develop talent like Nelly Furtado and Rufus Wainwright, Robertson admits he’s always remained partial to Canucks.

“I have a real soft spot for Canadian talent. I genuinely do, but it’s not about doing favours,” he adds sternly. He continues saying today’s artists have it easier than he did back in the 1960s.

“You don’t have to be able to write a brilliant song, you don’t have to be able to sing like a bird, you don’t have to be a virtuoso on your instrument . . . you can just be good at expressing yourself and if you’ve got a sound and an attitude there’s hope for that, too.

“For young kids growing up in a reservation, who just don’t think there’s any chance for any blessings for this kind of dream to come their way, it’s just not true. But you do have to deliver,” he says with a wink.



Entered at Fri Feb 28 00:51:42 CET 2003 from xtreme8-78.aci.on.ca (209.50.82.78)

Posted by:

Rudiment

Location: Toronto

Subject: Bill you know your history ALL RIGHT

Bill I would be interested in your history When you you know who played with WHO we are impressed you really did your home work.


Entered at Fri Feb 28 00:36:04 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Bayou Sam

The last link worked for me. It was a great interview except for the fact that she called Robbie the resident "Pretty Boy" of the band. My memory may be fading, but when The Band was altogher I would've given my eye teeth to get a crack at any one of them...married or no...well, I was never quite sure about Richard...he scared me a little...

Go to the site and type in Robbie Robertson in the first search section...be sure to change the preferences to dial-up if you don't have DSL

Take care and be well


Entered at Thu Feb 27 23:54:09 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Bones = at that point in '66 Mickey WAS the drummer I suppose. Also, if you think about it, mentioning Levon at that point would have been like hearing Ringo talk about pete best in 1963.

Witt - THREE POSTS! and the friggin(or fuckin if you like) link still didn't work. I'd also like to say that I miss you too - and stuff it yourself :-)


Entered at Thu Feb 27 23:45:06 CET 2003 from ns1.prenhall.com (198.4.159.5)

Posted by:

Ray G

Location: Pearl River NY

Subject: Hockey Talk

Glad to hear some hockey talk! I played while growing up but started gradually loosing intrest when I took up the guitar.

I'm a life long NY Rangers fan but I'd have to say that Bobby Orr (from the EVIL Boston Bruins) and Gordie Howe are my two favorite players. So do we know if any of the four Canadian Band members ever played?


Entered at Thu Feb 27 23:24:14 CET 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Posted by:

Bones

I watched 1966- The Home Movies by Mickey Jones. I thought it was great. He told some wonderful early rock and roll stories. I was surprised that he referred to himself as being in the Band, and he never mentions Levon's name. He talks about Sandy Konicoff(sp?)and Ronnie Hawkins, but not Levon.

I've often wondered if Levon regrets his decision to leave the Hawks at that point. I also find it interesting that people in here rake Robbie over the coals for leaving his "brothers" while Levon actually left first. In my opinion, they both had the right, and they should not be blamed for it.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 23:11:26 CET 2003 from on-tor-blr-a58-04-779.look.ca (216.154.19.17)

Posted by:

Wittgenstein

Web: My link

Subject: that last link didn't work

Sorry, I usually don't post three times in a season, let alone in fifteen minutes, but I tried out my previous link and it didn't work. The way to get to see the tv program Canada AM if the above link doesn't work is to go to 'www.ctv.ca' and then click on Canada AM.

To all my former enemies in the chatroom - get stuffed.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 23:08:12 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

Location: Tronno

Subject: rockin' hockey

I don't know if our guys ever did any hockey songs as a group (Robbie with Joni don't count), but there were some early Canuck rockers that did record songs about the great game, including "Gordie Howe" by Big Bob and the Dollars, "A Leaf Fan's Dream" by Doug Moore and "Clear The Track (Here Comes Shack)" by Douglas Rankine and the Secrets. Plus Leaf goalie Johnny Bower had a hit with "Honky The Christmas Goose", one of my very first records - or maybe it was my brother's.

Anyway, Big Bob, aka Bob Davies, and his earlier group, the Rhythm Jesters, are noteworthy in that they were (as far as I know) the first Canadian group to record a truly great rock record, for George Goldner's Rama label in '56. Doug Moore's record, essentially "Hot Rod Lincoln" with new words, was done the year - 1961? - that the Big M almost got 50 goals; the song has him putting in the 50th to put the Leafs on top. Oh well.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 22:59:38 CET 2003 from on-tor-blr-a58-04-779.look.ca (216.154.19.17)

Posted by:

Wittgenstein

Web: My link

Subject: watch Robbie

Sorry, I don't usually post twice in a month, let alone in ten minutes, but here's a link to actually watching this morning's show with Robbie Robertson.

To all my former friends in the chatroom, I miss you all dearly.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 22:45:29 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.217)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: And Howe

John D, we were fortunate to have Gordie Howe's son Mark as a Flyer for several seasons. He was a great defenseman and a class act as well. The apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Ever hear of the "Gordie Howe Hat Trick"?

A goal, an assist and a fight.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 22:39:02 CET 2003 from on-tor-blr-a58-04-779.look.ca (216.154.19.17)

Posted by:

Wittgenstein

Location: Toronto

Subject: Robbie on national tv

Mr. J. R. Robertson was on Canada AM this morning. If you wish to know what he talked about, try this site: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1046356765267_66///?hub=Entertainment

Sorry, I don't know how to make this into a link.

I gather that you 'accidently' get to see Wilco when they open for someone great - like Richard Thompson. I once accidently saw Alice Cooper.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 22:33:00 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: John D's Interview

Details...we want details!


Entered at Thu Feb 27 22:21:32 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Hockey

This puck talk reminds me of how, when I was 11 years old, my parents brought me to a charity dinner in Hartford when the Whalers were still there. Part of the charitable 'hook' was that each table would have as waiter an active Whaler player. The waiter for our table was a young 40-something named Gordie Howe, still playing, actually very comfortable and gracious 'playing waiter', and actually doing it! And, unlike more modern stars, was very talkative to this then 11 year old fan. At the end of the night he returned to me with a menu signed by himself and the entire team! And no charge!


Entered at Thu Feb 27 22:17:18 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

Posted by:

MattK

Subject: wrong day to stop sniffing glue...

Ok, does everyoe else understand what the heck is going on between Richard and Alan, or do I just need to find a better crack dealer?

Alan, I love ya buddy, but I'm having a heck of a time figuring out what Richard wrote on Wednesday that ticked you off so much - we are talking about Richard from St Catharines, right? Richard, are you writing in some sort of code that only Canadians and the British understand?

I hate it when a good broughaha kicks up, and I miss it. Damn. Someone enlighten me.

grubbery-at-yahoo-dot-com


Entered at Thu Feb 27 22:11:19 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.217)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Pucks and Such

Biffalo, while "The Flower" was a great skater and one of the more prolific scorers of the seventies he was never known as an "all 'round" player. His defense remains MIA to this day. He was oft times "diagnosed" with a bad case of the "Philly flu" upon visits to the Spectrum.

Reminds me of a story about Lindy Ruff of the Buffalo Sabres. Dave Schultz said he was known as Ruff at home and Lindy on the road.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 21:09:02 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

BiffaloB: Good of you to drag the most excellent Scrubbaloe Cane into this. Great band, one great album on RCA, displaying perhaps the best-ever use of violin in R&R, and including a killer version of Elvis' "Trouble". They were a Guess Who offshoot only insofar as GW bassist Jim Kale was involved. Upon leaving the GW years before they broke up, he signed on as manager of an unknown Vancouver-based group. When their bassist left, Kale stepped in. One of the two lead guitarists, Paul Dean, later made a mint leading Loverboy; he may also have played guitar on "Tears Are Not Enough"; I'll try to remember to check.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 21:05:24 CET 2003 from (193.10.71.3)

Posted by:

Helena Ribbing

Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Subject: TLW and more

Last night my husband and I went to the Swedish Filminstitute in Stockholm. They showed The Last Waltz (new filmcopy) and the place was fullseated. A great spirit filled the air for the two hours of music. Allthough we have seen the film before many times it felt like a new experience with the perfect quality in frame and sound. Some instruments could be heard that doesn´t come out as well on the video-copy or the lp. Very nice!!! (I bought the lp in 1978) I also have a few questions that I hope some well-informed band-fan could answer: Did the Band ever perform in Sweden or did any of them ever pay a visit? I have seen somewhere that they went to Denmark and also Norway and Finland in the -80`s. I´m also curious of Jan Hoiberg, who is he? American? Norwegian??? What does he do beside all the Band-bussines? How did he get into making the site? It´s very well made and amusing to read. It becomes like a need or a habit. Thank you!!! Finally I have to comment on some of the writing in the GB. I would prefer more music-talk and less politics. Although I have to admit that in the first place it was very interesting to see that so many of you seem to have an urgent need to express your thoughts about war, 11th sept. etc. in a music-site! Which makes me curious: what were/are the Band-members interest in politics? Were they totally non-political or did they take a stand for anything? Democrats or republicans? Best regards Helena


Entered at Thu Feb 27 21:00:03 CET 2003 from m198214176085.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.85)

Posted by:

pehr

Subject: pics

Love the photos Curt and Alicia! Thanks for sharing.

Bye, Mr. Rogers, wow now I feel older than this morning.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:56:37 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Ricard's delliberately provoking remarks

Al....I see what you mean...don't cast your pearls before swine or pay attention at a dog howling at the moon...

Richard, my dear, naff off!

Take care and be well


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:55:18 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Subject: Islanders

Guy La Who? I liked Mike... Bossy, that is... also Trottier, Potvin the Ranger killer, Billy Smith, Gillies... Coach Al Arbor... 4 straight Cups!


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:52:08 CET 2003 from h-68-164-229-85.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.229.85)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Richard, although the Mekons came out of the late 70's British punk scene, I wouldn't consider them a punk band now. They're entirely too accomplished on their instruments. Steve Goulding is an amazing drummer and Lu is an equal genius on the saz and vocals although he doesn't sing much with the group. They write great songs and the whole vibe live is really uplifting. And there's Ms. Timms.

I don't necessarily have any great affinity for punk music and I certainly was never in a punk band. What I have found interesting is where punks have gone musically, with Tweedy and Langford both being excellent examples of the journey. They tend not to sit still very long which is commendable. It also seems like country music is a logical next step for angry young musicians seeking something new, especially if you delve into the Hank/Johnny Cash mythos.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:44:56 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Cussing

Al...it's not what you say that damages your soul...it is the anger and hate behind it. And trust me...I don't believe ANYONE's soul is pristine...especially mine. And I have felt EXACTLY the same way you have about banging Robbie's and Levon's heads together...Jesus, Mary and Joseph! If I had a dollar for everytime that feeling came over me...the problem is I am so short I would have to stand on one of those plastic milk crates to do it and probably do more damage to myself...

I did not mean to address the rest of the post to you...I am sorry...I should have been more explicit...I was addressing it to the rest of those people who took sides....North vs South?, now that is an interesting metaphor to explore...

The next time Richard gets your "goat"...send me an e-mail...Celt27@aol.com...vent at me (trust me, I can take it)and then calmy tell Richard he doesn't know his head from......a hole in the ground.

I am also curious about Roz...I have tried to find posts and can't seem to find any...could anyone tell me what she said and what she was like?

Take care and be well


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:37:54 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

Posted by:

MattK

Subject: Richard

Richard, I was bringing up the Beat Farmers and Violent Femmes as examples of the fore-runners of Alt Country in the form of "country punk." In the same sense, I'd also reference John Doe and X.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:37:07 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Curt and Alicia - Thanks for posting your trip story and pictures. Reminded me of how pretty the countryside is up around that area. Glad you got to the Turning Point too, it's a great venue and right on the river, it's very scenic too (kind of a small place, though). Alicia - loooooking gooooood!

Politics - Maybe will surprise Rollie and others, but as time goes by I am getting more and more queasy about this whole Iraq thing. I am starting to think the U.S. should forget about trying to change other nation's governments. Just send in commando teams to hit the terrorist training camps, wherever they exist. If the governments of those nations don't like it, too bad. We are not hitting your nation, just the terrorists you have in your country which you are ignoring. If you are angry about the U.S. "violating" your territory, tough luck. Do something about the terrorists and we won't have to come in. There will be a lot more sympathy for the U.S. if we did that rather than trying to change other nation's governments. No need for U.N. resolutions bullsh*t. Just nail 'em. Look how much time is being wasted already as Al Quaeda regroups.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:35:35 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

Posted by:

MattK

Subject: alt country

Ok, so how can we be talking up Uncle Tupelo and Alt Country in general without mentioning Jeff Tweedy's good friend Brian Henneman and The Bottle Rockets?

Henneman's earlier band "Chicken Truck" toured the midwest often with UT, and when Chicken Truck broke up, Henneman worked as a roadie for UT and even plays/sings on their early recordings. Henneman is also on the first Wilco CD, "A.M." Tweedy and Jeff Margherita also helped produce Henneman's demos which led to the formation of The Bottle Rockets and their first record deal.

There's even Band connections, albiet loosely. The Bottle Rockets are featured on the same "River of Song" documentary that features Levon playing with James Cotton. Additionally, Henneman clearly has a major Robbie fetish as a guitarist, IMHO.

I recommend their first, eponymous CD (featuring Tweedy and Jay Farrar from UT) and their second CD, "The Brooklyn Side."


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:28:38 CET 2003 from 213-48-246-62.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.246.62)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Oh F**k

F****n right Pete lad.

Of course you'll all f****n rue the f*****n day F****n BWNWIT f****n mailed f****n me.

Still you've all got a break now as it's off to watch Danny Murphy I go.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:21:15 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.195)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Cathaines

Subject: Femmes/Punk/Sweaters

Mattk: Couldn't agree with you more re: the first Violent Femmes LP. That has always been a favorite of mine. Beat Farmers?: I couldn't tell you what they sounded like without pulling out the LP (and I know I actually played it a few times). And, were you referencing those band in connection with Wilco? Uh, maybe the whiny-Brit sound of the Femmes. The Femmes had a better beat though.

Pat B: I'm so glad to hear of your involvement with and many plugs for Langford and the Mekons. I think we've disagreed on the merits of punk for about 4 years now... tell me, do you consider the Mekons a punk band?

Al Edge: Christ Al, I'm glad to hear you're OK. I thought you were going to have stroke or something... Can we "mix it up" now? Why don't you and BWNWIT knit your nose hairs together and make a sweater?

Sam: Nice restraint.

richDOTpattersonATexciteDOTcom.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:21:03 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: hockey and indians

although i live in the hometown of wayne gretzky, guy lafleur is my pick for the all round hockey player of my generation.

has anyone heard "feeling good on sunday" by scrubaloe cane. its a great feel good kind of tune as the title implies. scrubaloe cane i think was an offshoot of the disbanded guess who, in the mid seventies. now when listening to BTO or Guess Who, i am concious of a native american, probably prarie indian specifically, inflection in their music. one can hear the buffalo thunder of the prarie, the rhythms and spirit of the pow wow, translating into the songs and music such as performed in recent concerts. funny, i never heard it in my earlier years. some people i guess can, like daniel lanois describing the sound of the band as comming from a "southern ontario tobacco farm region kind of feel" circa 1987.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 20:07:56 CET 2003 from du-tele3-236.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.236)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Calexico "Feast of Wire"

Calexico’s new one ‘Feast of Wire’ is one of the latest albums described as Band-like. The first track, ‘Sunken Waltz’ is especially so for those missing out on new stuff. The only fault (as with Lambchop and Wilco) is that while the lead singer is excellent, he doesn’t have that magic something that Richard, Rick, Levon and Robbie all had in different ways. In fact all the lead singers in these alt-country bands sound a bit similar to me! Calexico’s secret is the range of instrumentation and sounds. As I posted last week, the bonus tracks are separated by blank tracks 17 to 31 (!) but then tracks 32-34 culminate in “Fallin’ Rain” the great Link Wray song that the Neville Bros covered. Very highly recommended album. If you like Wilco and The Gourds, this is at least as good.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 19:56:28 CET 2003 from du-tele3-236.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.236)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

I suspect the basic misapprehension about cussing is that we only do it in anger. Here in Britain the F-word is often used casually, affectionately, or as punctuation. We don't only use it to express rage. Language changes in weight. When I was a kid, if we were effing and blinding in the street, we would have been stopped and told to moderate our language by passers by and certainly by the constabulary. Now they wouldn't notice. While we might bemoan that, remember that to Shakespeare the word 'naughty' meant 'evil'. Nowadays, it's a child crayoning on the wall or speaking too loudly in the supermarket. So words change all the time, and the F-word has become much milder than it was. A comparison is 'bugger' which is the mildest of expressions in England, 'You silly bugger' or 'He's a miserable bugger' would be acceptable on TV at any time, but the original meaning of the word is stronger than f*!*er.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 19:40:51 CET 2003 from h-68-164-229-85.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.229.85)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

"I subsist mostly on tins of tuna and such...."


Entered at Thu Feb 27 19:35:17 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

.....so, I'm scrolling through the lastest posts - taking it all in. Some are funny (Crabby seeing a band TWICE by accident - some weird - some S.O.S - Al's, in which he says he was excersing restraint (yikes!, imagine if he wasn't). By the way Al, if it's the same guy I've dealt with, then you aren't the only one.

I wondered if I had anything worthwhile to add - or if I wanted to risk commenting on the guy Al talked about (which I decided to breifly do above). Then I got to David Powell's post. What a great, positive post. It sort of was a "feel good" post that I needed to comment on. Nice post David.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 19:33:23 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

Posted by:

MattK

Subject: Femmes, Mr. Rogers, etc

Pat, the Femmes first album is far and away their best, and truly one of my all-time faves. Their second album "Hallowed Ground" has some great moments, though. "Country Death Song" comes off like Ted Bundy meets Doc Boggs. 100 years earlier, and they would have scored a particularly long-winded chapter in Marcus' "Invisible Republic."

The Beat Farmers, of course, just plain rule (hubba hubba hubba hubba hubba). First time I saw them, they were opening for Neil Young and International Harvester at Red Rocks, and frankly, I thought they kicked Neil's butt that night.

Sad to hear about the passing of Mr. Fred Rogers. I'm reminded of the old National Lampoon skit with Bill Murray as a jazz bass player, clearly stoned, being interviewed by "Mr. Roberts" (Christopher Guest). Freaking funny stuff.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 19:21:10 CET 2003 from 213-48-240-187.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.240.187)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Damaged goods

Sorry Fallen Angel but if my soul really has been damaged every time I've used the 'f' word then I really am even more of a lost cause than I thought. Eat yer heart out Saddam Hussein your soul's pristine compared to mine pal!! S'ppose I would have to blame a latent reaction to a strict Catholic upbringing. Certainly tho you don't have to fret for me though it is very nice of you and it is appreciated. Rest assured tho my heart's still in the right place.

Re this Robbie/Levon thing I think you do have me confused with someone else. I've never pointed a finger at anyone tho I have written a mammoth post the essence of which was that their heads needed banging together. The thing with me and richard is purely HIM slagging me for no reason. Just that.

Shanks be with you brother - or sister! :-o)


Entered at Thu Feb 27 18:55:53 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

Location: Toronto

The greatest hockey team ever to don skates is the Montreal Canadiens, whose classic sweater is mostly red. But, unless the league has gone and changed things again, Montreal players only get to wear that sweater for away games; the sweater for home games is white. Like most teams, the Canadiens probably do better in front of the home fans - that is, in white (shirts and blue shorts and red stockings, I think - do we have any real hockey fans here?) rather than red. A big However is that before pro hockey expansion, when artifice was deemed necessary to curry favour with potential fans in hitherto hockey-free cities, teams wore their coloured sweaters at home and their white sweaters away from home. And in those days Montreal pretty much owned things for years at a time.

The photo of Robbie Robertson in a Leaf sweater shows him in what was at the time of the photo reserved for away games, but which would have been the home sweater when he lived here. (The Leafs of Joni Mitchell's song would also have been wearing the home blue of earlier times.)


Entered at Thu Feb 27 18:37:49 CET 2003 from sttn-sh7-port46.snet.net (204.60.54.46)

Posted by:

Todd Atkinson

Subject: Spelling

My previous post should have been "accidentally"

I guess I won't win this week's spelling bee!


Entered at Thu Feb 27 18:31:29 CET 2003 from sttn-sh7-port46.snet.net (204.60.54.46)

Posted by:

Todd Atkinson

Location: Connecticut
Web: My link

Subject: Wilco/Crabgrass/Barnburners

Crabgrass: How do you see a band "accidently" twice? I've never seen Wilco live, but I respect your opinion in re: to their talent or lack thereof.

I think that one of the great things about this guestbook is that we can have differences of opinion on bands such as Wilco, but agree in our opinions on bands like the Barnburners. I'm pretty sure you're a fan of theirs. I've enjoyed viewing your photos of them on this website in the past, as I can't always get to their NYC shows.

Click on the above link to see some photos that I took at a Barburner's show in Pine Plains, New York on June 29, 2002. Tony Garnier from Bob Dylan's band was sitting in with them on bass.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 17:55:08 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: RR's unique talent

Guestbook regulars are well aware that I occasionally throw darts at that easy target of Robbie Robertson's aura of often shameless self-promotion. That said -- I come here today to praise the man. I've always recognized that he is an extremely talented songwriter & musician. What sets him apart in the cutthroat industry of music is that he's matched his artistic talents with an ability to handle the rigors of the business. All this has been achieved through years of hard work & dedication. I look forward to whatever new directions Mr. Robertson will take artistically. The music business, and more importantly, the world around us, has reached a crossroads in this new millennium. All of us are traveling down dark paths and we all need inspiration along the way.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 17:34:56 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Al Edge

My comments were directed to you personally at that moment, as I could see you were angry and in pain. I was not offenced BY you...I was concerned FOR you. I just wanted to point out to you that you should treat yourself better. Cultural acceptance or not...cussing is cussing and it does damage your soul...not that I claim to be exempt...but people say F*ck every other word like it is part of breathing...I have my moments and when the people who know me here me yell "F*ck You!" they stop dead in their tracks, because they know it must be serious if I am using that sort of language. I am more concerned that you don't get yourself so worked up that you "spurt".

But is was also directed to everyone in general. When you let anger get the better of you, you damage just a bit of your soul...and souls take a long time to heal...Trust me, I don't have red hair for nothing. When you post just take a breath and think if this is a knee-jerk reaction or is this how you really perceive things are

If you want to think Robbie betrayed his friends for greed, you are entitled to your opinion...If you think Levon is acting like a petulant self-centered kindergartner, you are entitled to your opinion...but don't abuse others because their opinion is different than yours...instead of pointing the finger of blame if people used all that energy to try to help the both of them settle their difference and become friends again instead of trying to drive them further apart...what a wonderful gift we would give ourselves to have the three of them back onstage together.

Ummmmm.....something puzzles me...are there any "Hudsonians" out there and what to they think?

Take care and be well


Entered at Thu Feb 27 17:26:47 CET 2003 from bob27.revealed.net (208.16.227.30)

Posted by:

Mike D.

Subject: Mr. Rogers.

Lil, say it ain't so.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 17:26:13 CET 2003 from (207.222.80.240)

Posted by:

Jenny T

Subject: Igby Goes Down

Calvin: You are right it was Igby Goes Down. I thought I would like that movie, but I really did not at all. Most of the characters were so shallow. I have to care about SOMEBODY in a movie, even if they are deeply flawed, or else I just don't care about what happens to anyone. That must be why I forgot about it.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 17:12:30 CET 2003 from (207.222.80.240)

Posted by:

Jenny T

Subject: Cutthroat

This is a little nothing, but speaking of cutthroat, my husband and I went out to dinner for Valentine's, and then to a little very local place that sometimes has a good band. But the roads were so bad the band cancelled, so we decided to play pool even though we are no good, esp. me.

Anyway my husband thought it would be funny to ask "What's the game, Jenny?" And even though I'm pretty sure it doesn't make sense to say it if there are only two players (or does it?) I had to say it. And then he asked me the object of the game, and I answered. And then we played what was probably the sorriest game of regular pool (8 ball?) ever played, and I lost.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 17:09:49 CET 2003 from du-tele3-252.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.252)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Rambling thoughts

Football shirts: I realise the flaw to my green shirts theory was that they’d also find it harder to see each other (but Bournemouth were never into passing much in those days). I’ve since read Desmond Morris’s theory that the most successful sports teams wear red. Being an aggressive colour it intimidates the opposition, and players can pick out their team mates better. The thesis runs well in the English Premiership (Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal) but rather falls down when you look at the Brazil, Argentina, France, Italy and Germany national teams.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 17:07:36 CET 2003 from 213-48-240-214.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.240.214)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: PV

Now THAT was funny. LOL!! Six shillings pocket money indeed. I suppose you'd have offered to do a part-time scouting role as well!!

Tell you what Pete you can have Spud for ten bob. Throw in a genuine Bournemouth deck-chair with an old biddy still sat in it and you've got a deal!!


Entered at Thu Feb 27 16:59:44 CET 2003 from 213-48-240-214.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.240.214)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: BWNWIT

Received an e-mail from BWNWIT.

Seems he WAS banned. Then the ban was lifted when Jan realised it was effectively unenforceable. So now he isn't banned but feels as if he still is if you see what I mean. Upshot is he won't be coming back which I think is regrettable - as I also feel with Amanda, Roz or anyone else who feels unable to return. But there you go.

We agreed there was little point to be served in me staying away. Of course with the recent Putemup stuff some may feel I haven't really been away anyway. Fair point s'ppose.

Fallen Angel - apologies if I offended you by my language. There are many on here who do feel as you do about such things and for some time I have tried to curb such excesses. It is more acceptable over in UK. Less frowned upon. More part of the culture so to speak so it is less offensive and de rigeur on these sort of forums. However, you are right about respect for others and I will wash this blessed cakehole thing out with carbolic [not a swear werd incidentally :-o)] soap immediately my fingers have left these keys.

Agree with your 'anger' sentiments too - in broad terms - tho in this case I think you're slightly at a disadvantage in your knowledge of the situation. Point is sometimes you do just get p**%$* off and you don't feel you can let things go as there will clearly just be a next time and a next time. It means you either try to ignore it or address it. Different people approach such things in different ways at different times I guess. I'm not saying I'm right but it's how I see it just now.

Re The BAND - most on here would confirm that I'm firmly in the neutral camp. Perhaps your post was directed at somebody else?


Entered at Thu Feb 27 16:57:06 CET 2003 from du-tele3-252.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.252)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Posts

My only problem with Al's posts are that theyre too infrequent. Anyway, we do have to get Danny Murphy back on the pitch and off this rock tour. Look, Al, if he's playing so shite (and he seems to be), I have the solution to Liverpool's problems. Send him on a free loan to Bournemouth for the rest of the season. The Third Division will prove a shock to his senses and remotivate him. The fresh sea-air will do him good. And we'll really look after him well down here, I promise! Just put it to Monsieur Houlier. It's good for Liverpool, it's good for England (and completely brilliant for Bournemouth). This is the best idea I've had since 1958 when I wrote to the Bournemouth manager and suggested that (a) they should buy Johnny Haynes (I offered to contribute a month's pocket money- nearly 6 shillings) and (b) they should wear green shirts instead of red so the opposition wouldn't see them so well. The history of English football would have been different if they'd listened.

All these Wilco posts have sent me back to listen to Being There. I nearly, but not quite, get Wilco. Must be a generation thing. I'm really enjoying their song then another burst of jangly or dischordant guitar comes in and ruins it for me. They have a huge amount of talent, but are sadly lacking in the Robbie Robertson (or indeed Jim Weider) tasteful guitar dept. Sometimes the guitar is brilliant (Kingpin) and sometimes I turn round and think 'What was that about?' But I persevere.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 16:33:29 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: america may one day exist

i shake my head in wonder and disbelief, that the promise of a real america for all people is continuously subverted by those who have control of the state organs of power. from my study, one can only sense that the real americans want their nation to be the shining social democratic leader to the world. you have the drive, the ability, to do it right. the rest of the world is waiting while it quivers and thinks.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 16:12:30 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Levonistas

Roger, thanks for the info...I knew Helmian couldn't be right, but didn't remember seeing another label...you learn something new every day. However, I will either use Robertson/Helm or Robbie/Levon as I respect them both...I am not always in agreement with them, but I will always respect their musical ability and themselves as human beings.

Take care and be well


Entered at Thu Feb 27 16:06:24 CET 2003 from citrix6.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.4)

Posted by:

John Cass

Location: VT

Subject: G-Man

G-Man... I can't hit that 3-1-03 JWB..... already have my March concerts planned... got tickets for 3-16 Greg Brown show in Middelbury VT and then 3-20 Allman Brothers in NYC Beacon Theatre....that NYC will take up most of my extra funds for the month.... have a good old time and coldies for me and hopefully see ya at the 4-4-03 Levon show in Claremont NH Muddy Water's Birthday Bash...

hope to see ya soon..


Entered at Thu Feb 27 16:02:35 CET 2003 from wwwcache4.uce.ac.uk (193.60.131.9)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Brum UK

Subject: Fallen Angel

Fallen Angel - it's Roberstonians and Levonistas. Goes with the usual form form of address - Robertson or Levon.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 15:57:18 CET 2003 from 223.64.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.64.223)

Posted by:

Dexy

Subject: Finnigan CDs

John D, you're right, the Brotherhood album has never been released on CD and is one of the best American albums ever, in my opinion (and others'). But, Mike's CD with Jerry Wood, Crazed Hipsters, was released on CD a few years ago. Probably hard to find, but it's out there.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 15:54:45 CET 2003 from (65.88.119.254)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: pa

Subject: David Gray

I was recently turned on to David Gray's White Ladder. Any thoughts out there in Band Land?


Entered at Thu Feb 27 15:11:19 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Dexy

Thanks for the memories of Gerry Hahn & The Brotherhood. One album I wish had made it to CD. Mike Finnigan one of the best keyboard players of all time. Solo work for WB..... wonderful.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 14:48:16 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Bad WA

This board is starting to make the Bush/Hussein conflict look like mild disagreement over a cup of afternoon tea.

Anger only hurts yourself...it eats away at your soul like a worm eats an apple from the inside out...name calling means you eiter don't have the intelligence or the vocabulary to express your thoughts...cursing (using ALL the letters instead of discreatly putting an asterisk in middle) means your parents failed to impress upon you a consideration for others...and if you truly believe this is the land of the free than you MUST allow others to express their feelings just as you have the right to express yours...

AND...if you are truly a fan of THE BAND then you are a fan of Ricky Danko, Garth Hudson, Richard Manuel, Levon Helm, and Robbie Robertson...you can get frustrated at their foolishness, and there is a lot to be frustrated about...but if you are a "Robertsonian" or a "Helmian" (Helmian...there must be a better word) then you were never REALLY a fan of The Band or you are no longer a fan of The Band...The Band was and always will be the sum of ALL the parts/members because if you leave one out you don't have The Band...just a part of it.

Be well and take care


Entered at Thu Feb 27 13:49:07 CET 2003 from mcha-ab081.taconic.net (205.231.148.176)

Posted by:

Lil

Subject: RIP Mr Rogers

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood....


Entered at Thu Feb 27 12:52:02 CET 2003 from 1cust92.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.92)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Wilco

I've seen Wilco accidentally twice - they ARE a musical void in my opinion.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 12:33:29 CET 2003 from 213-48-244-220.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.244.220)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Danny Murphy

No wonder Danny Murphy's playing so shite if he's touring the States with Golden Smog in his spare time!!

[in joke for the Brits and Fred :-o) ]


Entered at Thu Feb 27 12:24:33 CET 2003 from 213-48-244-220.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.244.220)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: When it's Spring agin...

Back in following a pretty trying past week in what's turning out all in all to have been a pretty gruelling six months or so. Health problems that get to us all at some point. Family problems with grown-up kids that so many of us fifty somethings are falling victim to these days. Work problems. Gets you down but as you'll all know you do just have to keep going. You know the score. There simply IS no other solution. Seeking some switch off time. Scrolling down, restored once more to unwilling passive observer status following my rallying to Putemup's stirring call for some equity in the Band's commercial ethos. Thinking what a great forum this is while still waiting on BWNWIT or someone who knows him to put me out of my misery but still enjoying some mighty fine posts. Particularly impressed by Paul's spree from last week and the expert insight and commonsense of so many on here but so many other delights too including Ed Voci's ancestry post and Pete Viney's admirable and dogged refusal to let the songwriting polemic drop. Only about another ten million artists to go Pete lad :-o). Keep it going mate.

Then lo and behold Richard you twat. You strike again to jolt me out of my contentment and rise the fury inside of me.

For fuck's sake what is it with you fella? You like to get under people's skin or what. Or just mine is it? Surely this place is meant for a bit of relaxed reading or writing, a bit of information, a bit of frivolity or some real well argued earnestness. It's to be enjoyed. Surely? Sure you expect people to disagree with you if you've been involved in a thread or two. You also expect and unfailingly get zero response and apathy at times too. Also if you've been a nasty bastard then you expect to get it back. Deservedly so. Tenfold. But shit man - I'm as nice as apple fuckin pie to all on here. Those I occasionally have a problem with I scroll on by. Haven't you noticed??

What you shouldn't have to expect when you come on here for that bit of space is someone indulging in some highly focussed and unprovoked personal slagging off.

Your post from Wednesday was quite short but contained no less than FOUR direct insults at yours truly. Jeez man it was short and contained nothing original yet had four pops at me!!! Four for god's sake!! Now I was going to ignore them but the personalised nature of it rankled me so much because on any personal level they were so entirely unprovoked and uncalled for.

Also why the obsession with me?

The joint insult aimed at me and Ed Voci? Well I can live with the logic prompting that. You like brief posts - fair enough? You have a pop at him and me for posting lengthy ones. Still fair enough though as far as I'm concerned - tough shit. I'm sure there are others here share your aversion to lengthy posts. Fine. Clearly not all though judging from the responses I've had, so unless there's some law introduced then I'll stick with them where I feel they're justified. It's a major part of my particular style - the other, ironically, being one liners. Everyone's style is different and I certainly don't slag off anybody else's style. Nor do I have to justify or account for mine to you.

However, for no justifiable reason to call someone a wanker and then insult their writing ability - monkeys and typewriters no less - when 'writing' is something in which the person the jibe is aimed at clearly takes a recently discovered and great pride is way out of order. Certainly, no joke or light-heartedness there as far as I can see. Over here you call someone a 'wanker' and you expect either to get a smack in the mouth or give one out. Doing it from behind a keyboard is just for...well I won't go there just yet.

For Chrissakes man you've just seen what personal insults can do in upsetting people on this GB to the point where all hell breaks loose and they end up leaving.

Now this is the second time you've done this with me. The first time I decided to ride it after initially biting and then trying to deal with it humorously. I thought we'd reached an understanding on that score. Clearly not. Clearly you still have a big problem with me.

I kindly and respectfully ask then that you e-mail me at alDOTedgeATtalk21DOTcom. Let's see if we can resolve your problem like grown ups eh. If not then we'll just have to see how much this board can tolerate. Cos right now you've well and truly pissed me off and I'm raring to mix it. It's only my respect for most of the good folk on here that's compelling me to show this restraint. It's sure not what's inside though.

On a happier not - Ed Voci - got hold of Stadium Blitzer and Bolsa de Agua. What hidden treasure!!! Especially Blitzer I have to say. They are just SO good I'm finding it scarcely believable that they're not huge. I mean America did this overlooking thing with Gene Clark and others but surely it cannot let history repeat itself with these guys. It's unbelievable they're so unknown. Early days but the El Paso, Jesus and Flamenco tracks on Bolsa are just superb but that final track is simply outrageous. As good as ...well. And virtually everything on Stadium Blitzer is delicious to these ears and these 'stirred' guts though must mention Magnolia, Dyin' Diamond, Raining in Port Arthur and Boil My Strings [The remaining Band members will listen to that track and hear themselves singing the song they never sang but actually did if you see what I mean, Ed]. End of the month I'll be deffo ordering another - probably Dem's Good Beeble. Love them to absolute smithereens. In just a week!!! Many many thanks mate. A medal of commendation is on its way :-o)

Re possible Band covers. Well they've clearly listened to and at different times they sound like The Band, Van the Man, Gene Clark, Crazy Horse, Tom Waits, CCR, REM, Los Lobos - even They Might Be Giants. Above all though they seem to have stamped their own brand. Their own Texicana sound. I'd like to hear them do so many Band songs. Rags, Strawberry Wine, Daniel and Sacred Harp and Long Black Veil would suit them to a tee but how about an attempt at We Can Talk About It Now? Sure would test them but I'd sure love to hear the result.

Empty Now - sorry mate but really haven't had time to follow all your links. Computer's too slow as well. Don't suppose you could synopsize what you've been submitting - only it's clearly something you're feeling strongly about and you're not getting much feedback on it.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 09:58:21 CET 2003 from as3-2-110.hip.berkeley.edu (136.152.194.224)

Posted by:

Dave Hopkins

Location: Berkeley, CA

Subject: Golden Smog

Golden Smog is an alternative-country supergroup consisting of Gary Louris and Marc Perlman from the Jayhawks, Jeff Tweedy from Wilco, Dan Murphy from Soul Asylum, and Minneapolis musician Kraig Johnson, plus whatever drummer they're playing with at the time. They've put out 2 albums and an EP on Rykodisc; it's loose, informal, often-eccentric, rootsy stuff. I'd recommend starting with the first full album, "Down by the Old Mainstream."


Entered at Thu Feb 27 09:12:38 CET 2003 from sttn-sh3-port27.snet.net (204.60.44.27)

Posted by:

Todd Atkinson

Location: Connecticut

Subject: Wilco

Wilco filled a musical void for me that was left after I realised that Jubilation would be the last "new" Band album. I was initially drawn to the alt. country style of their music which shows up a lot on "A.M." and "Being There." Wilco has a lot going for them musically, but I think that their strongest assets are Jeff Tweedy's songwriting skills and considerable vocal chops. To my ears, he sings with a combination of the soulfullness of Richard Manuel and the charisma of Rick Danko. Think of "Tears of Rage", "Caledonia Mission" and "When You Awake" for examples. I'm not saying that Jeff Tweedy is necessarily better; just that he has studied the masters well.

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot was a further evolution of Wilco's experimental style, and it took a little while for it to grow on me. It does get better with repeated listening, and I find that it's best to play it all the way through. For me, it's a success because it takes some of the best influences of the Band, and blends that with some of the best influences of the Beatles "White Album", particularly the Lennon stuff. Check out "Radio Cure", or "Ashes of American Flags" from YHF for examples.

I'm now currently working my way backwards through the Wilco evolution and getting into the Uncle Tupelo material. There is a Peter Buck (of REM) produced UT album called "March 16-20,1992" which I am looking forward to getting soon.

Peter Buck has this to say about it: "It's my favorite Uncle Tupelo record, and not just because I worked on it. As we were making it I remember thinking, 'This is a classic record.' You can't really tell what year it was recorded-it could have been done in 1968, or today. If you were in your car and you put on a Dylan record and an Ian and Sylvia record and a John Prine record, and this popped up in the midddle of them, you wouldn't think it was out of place-either time-wise or in terms of quality. I'm as proud of it as anything I've done. That was a band at it's peak."


Entered at Thu Feb 27 08:55:08 CET 2003 from 223.64.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.64.223)

Posted by:

Dexy

Subject: Mike Finnigan

Just got back from an outstanding concert by Mike Finnigan and the Phantom Blues Band (aka Taj Majal's band). A reminder, as if I needed it that Mike Finnigan is an undiscovered American treasure. I recall a guitar lesson from a forgotten Jerry Hahn in my Wichita youth -- I asked him who his favorite rock artists were. He said, "Well, the Stones are good if you like rock. But the only two bands who really matter are The Beatles and The Band. I was truly touched, since they. along with his former bandmate Finnigan, were my favorites. And I never forgot it.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 08:36:39 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

BANDFAN

Subject: WILCO

JUST DISCOVERED A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO ANOTHER SIDE(?) PROJECT OF JEFF TWEEDY THAT IS CALLED GOLDEN SMOG. DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THEM YET BUT HAVE FOUND SOME MP3'S AND ARE TRYING TO GET THEM DOWNLOADED. THEY APPARENTLY RECORDED A COUPLE OF ALBUMS ALSO. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO ABOUT THIS? KEVIN


Entered at Thu Feb 27 07:11:59 CET 2003 from 1cust10.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.10)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Review of Norah Jones' House of Blues DVD

Enchanting and spellbindingly beautiful in every way.
Buy it.

(Her CD was sold out but I think I'm gonna like that too!!)

[BTW my friend Richard Julian will be opening for Norah on her North American tour during July and August - including 2 shows at Toronto's Massey Hall on July 3rd and 4th. Gillian Welch will be opening for Norah during June. Click above for a link to Richard's site and tour schedule.]


Entered at Thu Feb 27 07:01:56 CET 2003 from dialup-166.90.65.86.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.65.86)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Brien, I now hate you. Well, maybe that's too strong. OK, I don't like you. Hmmmm, that may be a little heavy. OK, you're fine by me. So you don't like Summerteeth. But I do and that's final. I'm glad that's settled. To be honest, I have trouble with Yankee Hotel Foxtrot and like Summerteeth a lot more. But a lot of people I know and respect love YHF and I figure they all aren't heathens, so I pull it out once a month and try to educate myself.

mattk, I lost track of the VF (even though they are our neighbors from Milwaukee) after their first album. I don't know why. But it does seem that a lot of punk types discovered hard core country about the same time. Being ensconced in the late 1970's Americana area--in other words, loving The Band, Little Feat, and the Jerry Jeff/Lost Gonzo/Texas experience (besides Cash, Williams etc)--I questioned punks gone country but I've certainly grown to appreciate and admire the move. I believe the Mekons are criminally underappreciated.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 06:53:17 CET 2003 from h00010322b32d.ne.client2.attbi.com (24.60.117.69)

Posted by:

Joe Bloggs

Web: My link

great site!


Entered at Thu Feb 27 05:47:51 CET 2003 from ac9fc9c1.ipt.aol.com (172.159.201.193)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: Wilco continued

What a strange band Wilco is.., in one moment they are brilliant and the next zzzzzzzz. I have to differ on Summerteeth. Outside of a song or two, it's a wasted effort, unless of course you like a lot of slow songs that go on and on in annoying way, much like this run on sentence that made its point but seemingly needs to continue to beat the point to death before it finally comes to a merciful end. Being There is very solid, though some good editing could have made this a 5 star record. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot is about the best "art" rock album i've ever heard. Foxtrot is a cd to appreciate as opposed to cranking and jamming while driving. I have not heard AM/FM (?) their first effort.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 05:37:04 CET 2003 from ptd-24-198-165-182.maine.rr.com (24.198.165.182)

Posted by:

MattK

Subject: Pat B

"they sounded like a cross between the Clash and country baladeers"

Interesting. How would that, say, compare to the Violent Femmes, circa "Hallowed Ground" or the Beat Farmers?


Entered at Thu Feb 27 05:21:33 CET 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Posted by:

Tiny Monster

Location: Out-There
Web: My link

Subject: The Band

Dear E N,

What Band ?



Entered at Thu Feb 27 04:44:31 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Apologies to Peter Viney

Peter, no offense meant and certainly none taken. My post was the unfortunate result of some frustrations surrounding a related topic near to me. I hope you know by now that I have nothing but respect for you and your opinions. We are all more than a little bit frustrated by the current state of things and it has created a heightened sensitivity to any comments perceived as negative. We Americans want peace, freedom and security for ourselves and our world neighbors.

My apologies for the tone of my response. I hope you will understand.

PEACE


Entered at Thu Feb 27 04:36:58 CET 2003 from (204.101.153.2)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Subject: Robbie-aboriginal awards

Excerpts from last night's wires . . . .

TORONTO — Legendary musician Robbie Robertson says being chosen for a National Aboriginal Achievement Award ranks among the most important awards he’s ever received.

“I don’t like to lump things together out of respect but this is something that personally means much more to me than a lot of the things,” the singer, guitarist, actor and producer said Wednesday.

“It’s great to be acknowledged in these different areas but this is about where I’m from and who I am as a person, part of my whole growing up and what shapes me. It definitely touches my heart more so than any of the other awards I’ve been blessed to have been able to receive over the years.”

The awards, to be handed out March 28 in Ottawa, will recognize the work of 14 people including Saskatchewan fiddler John Arcand, Alberta pipeline expert Mel Benson and Ontario author Thomas King. Robertson will receive the lifetime achievement award.

Handed out during a two-hour televised variety-style show, the awards were formed 10 years ago as a way to increase the aboriginal community’s profile in Canada.

Robertson, singer Susan Aglukark and pop singer Sarah Saint will be among the aboriginal entertainers during the show, hosted by actor and singer Tom Jackson.



Entered at Thu Feb 27 02:30:33 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

PatB: Nobody's said anything like evil, at least not today. And at least two of us who commented went out to add soft soap to our criticisms.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 01:37:02 CET 2003 from h-68-164-15-158.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.15.158)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Subject: Wilco/The evil Robertson

Wilco is an interesting case study. As a member of Uncle Tupelo, Jeff Tweedy came out of the downstate (Illinois) punk rock scene around the same time a lot of punkers were discovering country music (see The Mekons). I recall an ex-girlfriend of mine raving about their appearance at the late, lamented Lounge Ax; she said they sounded like a cross between the Clash and country baladeers. Anyway they had a nice run, touring with the reconstituted Band on the ill-fated Michelle Shocked caravan (date??). I recall Levon in Rolling Stone putting an UT record in his top five of the year soon after that tour.

Tweedy formed Wilco after leaving UT although most of the players stayed with him. They pursued the somewhat country punk/rock thing for a while (see Being There) but they got increasingly interested in keyboards. Summerteeth is the culmination of that, which is why I think its their best album. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot is a Radiohead-type pastiche which is challenging, but I'd start with the previous mentions if you are new to the group. Tweedy certainly displays a comendable restlessness.

The Robertson slamming here is very impressive. It's fascinating that someone like me would never think of going off on the other members of the group, but if I dare rise to Robertson's defense, I get zapped by folks who evidently think nothing of the one way street. But I will say that I'm thankful at least one member of the group was a sharpie; otherwise we wouldn't know who they were.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 01:12:01 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Subject: oops, I forgot

Lil = I meant to ask - you mentioned being able to hear John D's interview on Friday. Where exactly can I hear it by me? - radio? internet? I'd like to hear it. Thanks.


Entered at Thu Feb 27 01:06:46 CET 2003 from inktomi3-bre.server.ntl.com (62.253.64.6)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: David's right, I'm wrong

First thanks to David Powell for being more sensible than me and keeping it on the music (not that I agree with the implications re Robbie but that’s a different question).

Bob – absolutely right that this is not a forum to debate the events of 62 years ago, long before most (or all) of us were born. Well, not that long before I was born. But it was before I was born! I have criticized that myself often, and in this one, I was entirely wrong not to practice what I preach. The “somewhat tardy” phrase is one you won’t ever get the British to drop I’m afraid – it was the cause of many unecessary fistfights between allies from 1941 and 1945, abut I’m afraid we British all got that one with our mother’s milk, so that it’s a kneejerk reaction here. As with all kneejerk reactions, it fails to recognize the reality of vast numbers of Americans who gave their lives. The blame lies with so many recent Hollywood versions of the war which fail to acknowledge that the true ‘Band of Brothers’ consisted of Americans, British, Australians, New Zealanders, Indians, Canadians, Poles, Czechs, Norwegians, Dutch, Danes, Frenchmen and others … standing shoulder to shoulder. I think if you were a Canadian or a Brit you would also be annoyed at long TV / movie versions of D-Day which ignored their contribution. Wasn’t it three US bridgeheads, 2 British and 1 Canadian? Which does mean that the Canadian contribution was proportionally the largest!


Entered at Thu Feb 27 01:09:01 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

E N = that was an interesting Lennon tribute you linked me to. Where is that from? Alot of the video snippets seemed to be from the "Imagine" film.

Scrolling through the GB these days is weird. It's like a politics discussion board with little pockets of music stuff trying to get through. Very erratic.

BTW = someone sent me an e-mail many months ago via this site, about a classic rock discusion site. I finally got around to checking it out, and it's pretty cool. Lot's of music talk - and a Beatles area too. Check it out. classicrockforums.com

wipeout1960 at yahoo.com


Entered at Thu Feb 27 00:14:30 CET 2003 from (209.236.161.38)

Posted by:

Mikey Lenahan

Location: Clinton NJ

Subject: Tom Pacheco show at Pattenburg House, NJ

I agree G-Man, Very special show. Tom, Jim and Garth are going to heat up the place. Hope to see Donna, Ruby, RickS and BashfulBill. Let's not forget the great Frankie Ahart. I know you can't make it G, but I will try to post some pictures of show on this web site. Peace


Entered at Thu Feb 27 00:08:10 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: TLW

Bill: Perhaps it can be said that Levon, Rick, Richard & Garth are captured honestly, without artifice, in the film. Robbie, on the other hand, seems to have undergone some sort of enhancement usually fashioned by image consultants. Not that there's anything wrong with that -- after all, the object of cutthroat is to knock everyone else's balls off the table.

Here's a test: Look at each segment of the film and note the number of times Robbie is in the camera's frame or interjects something when someone else is speaking. Note who is the first to appear onstage. And who is that doing his best to upstage Neil Young while he's singing.

[See the guestbook archive for more]


Entered at Wed Feb 26 23:51:17 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Calvin

Subject: Travis' Weight, WIlco,

The TRavis version of the Weight was from Igby Goes Down, or soemthing akin to that.

Wilco has a few different incarnations really. For the early alt-country, fun rocking sound, the double album Being There is one of these best things ever recorded. Yankee Foxtrot for all it's brilliance as a sonic work of art doesnt have the fun exuberance of that album, and the 2 albums with Billy Bragg are also very different, more straight ahead Folk. Frankly you can't get a good view of WIlco without buying Being There, Yankee Fox Trot and Mermaid Avenue.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 23:50:47 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

First, Sadavid and EdV: Thanks for the further references.

Second, in answer to the day before yesterday's topic, who came out best in The Last Waltz, I'd say Not Robbie. Not counting the bits I saw last year in Poole, I've seen the movie twice. The first time was the 'opening night' at a theatre on Yonge Street. I went in as the world's biggest Robbie Robertson fan and came out thinking What a jerk! Not because he wasn't brilliant and all that, but because he struck me as too full of himself and unfair to the others as a result. (I'm sure he's very different now, because we've all grown in 25 years ago.) I thought that Levon came out the best - he had a fair bit of airtime, and appeared thoughtful, interesting and reasonably articulate. I thought Richard came out as exceptionally intelligent well but painfully unpindownable (so less airtime - and certainly not enough to get a decent reading a la Levon). Rick came out as a jumble of nice, canny and untogether. Garth just didn't come out at all.

The second time was on VHS in Mecca in 1984. Then I think I just paid attention to the music, and to the reactions of my British housemates - most of whom were not all that familiar with either the Band or many of the guests. They were impressed.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 23:26:11 CET 2003 from dialup-67.27.104.54.dial1.buffalo1.level3.net (67.27.104.54)

Posted by:

G-Man

Gonna be a SPECIAL show at New Jersey's finest club, the PAttenburg House!! Tom Pacheco,,Garth,,and Jimmy Wieder this friday nite!! Also,,3/01/03,,whole Jim Weider Band is gonna be jammin the Castaways in Ithaca, New York! Hope to see some Road Warriors on the trip!!! John Cass ya better show at Ithaca!!!


Entered at Wed Feb 26 23:09:20 CET 2003 from hse-toronto-ppp3483688.sympatico.ca (65.92.93.81)

Posted by:

Cousin Paul

Location: Niagara Falls Canada

Subject: Roger, Brum U.K.

Roger, Rick Danko's mothers name was Leola Smith. Maybe you were closer to going to school with a Danko(sort of?) than you think!!! Went to see Vince Gill last night in Toronto.(Massey Hall) Band link? Mentioned being a fan, and got to play on the same stage as they used to!! He played six songs, then went on to play whole album that he just released!! 17 songs. He then finished off with 4 more songs and 2 encore,s. Reminded me of being a little boy at Rick's parents house. Be well, Paul


Entered at Wed Feb 26 22:54:47 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: John D., The Hawk and Original Band members

Gee, politics is flyin'high (Hi, Louie) around here, but, ah, John D., could we rewind to this small tidbit: "Also get ready for one more great stand from Ronnie and members of the Original Band coming soon.........." .....AND TELL US EVERYTHING YOU FREAKIN' KNOW ABOUT IT?


Entered at Wed Feb 26 22:45:51 CET 2003 from dsc03-cir-oh-1-209.rasserver.net (199.35.118.209)

Posted by:

Jenny T

Subject: Music

Hello again everyone. No one may remember this, but a few months ago I asked for suggestions for music for a "men's service" which it was my idea to have at our church. The service wound up being called "Bridging the Gender Gap" and most people LOVED it. What I did was have all the guys who would come over to my house come over, and I tried to get a handle on everything that was on their minds and presented that along with a sort of "nobody likes to be stereotyped" message.

Unfortunately I had trouble getting the music I really wanted but it turned out OK. I got Robert Johnson's "Malted Milk" for the prelude, which sounded really good. (It was in the Eric Clapton Unplugged song book.) For the offertory the pianist played Desperado, which maybe is overplayed but it is still a pretty good song. And a guy in our church, when he heard it was in the program, offered to "sing it like he sings in the shower" and it was really good. Though he kept his clothes on. And for the postlude, the pianist chose a Queen thing, which I forget the name, maybe "To Live Forever"??? Whatever it was, it sounded very good on piano.

So thanks for the suggestions like "Under My Thumb" and all--the feminist extremists would have LOVED that.

Also heard the Weight as performed by Travis (is that a band or a person?) at the end of a movie recently. Pretty sad but I can't remember the name of the movie.

Will have to go back and see what's been going on here. I have been busy with other stuff for a while.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 22:47:10 CET 2003 from stjhts23d051.nbnet.nb.ca (207.179.171.180)

Posted by:

WS Walcott

Subject: Wilco

I have seen people discuss the group "Wilco" in here from time to time. I was in a record store last week and saw 2 of their CDs. I can't remember the names of them. What is their stuf like? Can you recommend one CD over another? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 22:20:25 CET 2003 from (129.237.250.26)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Web: My link

Subject: Soldiers' Point of View

Butch (and anyone else who is interested), I share your respect for the perspectives of veterans. My father served in World War II and my stepfather in Korea. I've learned a lot from them, and from Vietnam veterans. The link above offers an alternative point of view from a Vietnam veterans group.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 22:04:09 CET 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Posted by:

Bones

Sean: You can go to Norahjones.com and purchase a DVD of a recent concert where she plays "Bessie Smith". She played "It Makes No Difference" recently at the Walden Woods benefit. I have not heard this version, and it may have been a one time thing. I don't know if she plays it in her concerts.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 22:01:56 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: The Man Comes Around Once Again

Today is the 71st birthday of John R. (Johnny) Cash. Sunday night he won his 11th Grammy Award. Amazingly, in spite of debilitating illness, he continues to not only create new music, but has recorded some of the best work of his five decade career in recent years. His last 4 albums with Rick Rubin's American Recordings have each earned a Grammy. His most recent was for "best male country vocal performance" of "Give My Love To Rose" from "American IV: The Man Comes Around". In my opinion, that album should have also won for Best Country Album period -- hands down! But Mr. Cash's music has always defied arbitrary categories -- it is an all-encompassing compendium of American music. Just listen to his cover of Trent Reznor's "Hurt" -- it is the most chillingly stark glimpse into a man's soul that has ever been recorded.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 21:46:22 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.141)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Roger

Roger, I respectfully disagree as that term and others similar have been used on more than one occasion by more than one poster here. I believe it is wringing wet with a sarcasm I don't appreciate. The same insinuation has come here from Canadian citizens who quickly point to our delay in joining the fray. The graveyards in Europe filled with the remains of American men and women speak the truth and I am further insulted by the inane statistical jockeying that speaks to the ratio of number of citizens to soldiers killed. No wonder the Chinese stood clear. They would have been swamped in that stats column. I disagree and stand by my right to state such.

I have always appreciated and respected England's support and their sense of obligation in fiscal matters. I wish many other countries around the globe took the same matters to heart. I respect our Canadian neighbors as well but if the matter is raised then it is out there for comment and discussion. A Canadian posted here some time back referring to the many dollars of U.S. support that has been directed to the IRA. When questioned about his own country's Irish contingent and their donations he brushed it off saying of course he knows of it BUT that wasn't his point. Mere conjecture but....would Canada have taken a similar stance to the U.S.'s without it's affiliation to England? I simply feel it is an unfair and, frankly , unfounded dig. You confirm my point regarding England's perceived delay in taking up the fight yet I have never heard that question posed here. Nor do I recall anyone attacking those who proclaimed neutrality. The world was a very different place then. Information was not nearly as accessible and decisions were much slower in the making.

Frankly speaking, I'm goddamned tired of the ease I perceive with which folks around the world find it so very simple to criticize. We're far from perfect but never very far when help is needed.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 21:12:12 CET 2003 from cache-hki-6.inet.fi (194.251.240.114)

Posted by:

Kalervo

Location: Finland
Web: My link

Subject: Breakable heart

So sad, but not surprising to hear Howie Epstein' s death. I pray that Carlene (Carter) will recover. I interviewed Carlene for some Finnish magazine for about 7-8 years ago. She was in recovery then. We had a great time, two recovering alcoholics. Only thing that bothered me was that she wasn' t active in her recovery ( not going to meetings anymore, just performing and growing flowers). And here are the results. But I really hope that someday I can hug her again and see her in the program.

Thanks Calvin! I was the first or second who mentioned Norah Jones here. Now I am the first one who has mentioned Mia Doi Todd. Really exciting new singersongwriter. Look at the lovely web site.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 20:31:39 CET 2003 from wwwcache4.uce.ac.uk (193.60.131.9)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Brum, UK

Subject: A Robbie by any other name

Great Rollie. A similar spoof was performed on radio this morning. Satirists here love Bush because they can have so much fun with his uniquiefied vocabulary.

Bob - a bit prickly I'd have thought in response to the phrase "...somewhat tardy...". Hardly a commentary. Countries and their leaders back in the thirties were tardy because they were so darned anxious to avoid a repeat of 1914 and the hell that hasty action then brought about. There are plenty of people who would now label the UKs approach in '37 and '38 as 'tardy'. Compared to some of the racist crap and jingoistic (is that French for chauvinistic?) sentiment that pours forth here I say you were over reacting.

I keep checking in today to see whether John D's got back to the GB yet. Maybe he'll divert us all.

Oh yea, and the Robbie thing. I just loved the names in The Band. I can remember being struck by the interesting names of each when I first got Big Pink. Look at them - Rick Danko. Levon Helm. Jaime Robert Robertson. Richard Manuel. Garth Hudson. Wow. I grew up with kids called Jones or Brown. My best friend's name was Smith. Oh to have had a Danko on our school register.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 19:44:16 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-019castocp0459.dialsprint.net (65.178.65.205)

Posted by:

Rollie

Web: My link

Subject: Now , this IS funny! Even JW should get a chuckle out of this(then again,maybe not!)


Entered at Wed Feb 26 19:43:07 CET 2003 from ns1.prenhall.com (198.4.159.5)

Posted by:

Ray G

Location: Pearl River NY

Subject: Curt & Alicia: Cool story and pics.

Curt & Alicia: Enjoyed the story and pics. Levon and the Barnburners kicked but on the 15th at The Turning Point, my wife and I were at the 2nd show that night. Levon along with the Barnburners and Jimmy V were in fine form! Levon is one great drummer and he is the coolest cat in the alley for sure!


Entered at Wed Feb 26 19:16:51 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Beer!

B.Bill: You were really fishing in the archives! The sad truth is I gave up beer last 7/6 :( Not because I can't drink (still have my wine and single malt scotch!)but because I saw an unflattering picture of myself and it was time for some action, so I got back to running 4.5 miles per day five days a week, and I gave up several bad things in my diet, which was beer, nachos, and onion rings. As a 'road warrior', these were my crutches, and I found that beer leads to other bad dietary habits, and as much as I love it, I had to make a choice between physical fitness or becoming a 'King of the Hill' knock-off. The good news it worked, and I am back in the shape I was in prior to marriage and business travel.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 18:48:18 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: war of 1812

JTull Fan, refering to a past post of yours. once upon a time, canadians had a reuptation for good beer amongst the americans, however, i switched sides many moons ago, and have enjoyed many beers/ales from various countries e.g. britsih iles(full body, robust, flavourfull), germany(i like the rip in the throat as those cold zingy hops go down). there are now several micro breweries in canada that make a mighty fine beer, but without exception, i have to say that the sackets harbour "war of 1812" ale, was a superb offering. i can still visualize the experience and remember the taste. it must of had alot to do with the atmosphere. i would not have enjoyed this ale, had it not been for my courageous attempt to cross the canada/usa border, in june 2002, and witness the sheer musical force of levon and jim. yes, the yanks are capable of great things.

Suggestion try a Tetleys ale, pretty good, nice to know the name is associated with more than just tea


Entered at Wed Feb 26 18:41:44 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Pat, I just get upset at the namecalling, which you don't stoop to. Although in a lighter vein, a car was reported acting suspicious last friday near the Federal Reserve in Richmond (ok, that part isn't funny)It was traced to a car rental agency, which reported a top level manager at my company as having rented that car on that day (he was out of state) and now we have the FBI here! Doh!


Entered at Wed Feb 26 18:28:28 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: non-political

A possible answer to Dan's question as to why "Between Trains" was not included on RR's "Classic Masters" --Robbie Robertson's most recent label affililation has been with Capitol/EMI and that compilation was culled from recent recordings on that label. Over the years, his soundtrack recordings, however, have been released on a variety of labels since this type of work is contracted independently through the film's production company. "Between Trains" from "King of Comedy" was recorded on the Warner Brothers label. More than likely, licensing various tracks from his soundtrack work on various labels for a compilation on another label (Capitol) requires an undue extra expense of time & money. Then again, Mr. Robertson's recent recordings have focused on Native American themes and perhaps he preferred to highlight that part of his work on "Classic Masters".

Hazy Davy mentioned that an element of subjectivity is inherent even in the documentary form of film. I certainly agee, although the degree of subjectivity is often more subtle than that found in theatrical films. Even the most unobtrusive & objective form of the documentary, cinema verite, is subjective in that the film-maker makes certain conscious choices in when & where he or she opens the lens & points the camera. A classic example of cinema verite chronicling a musician is D.A. Pennebaker's "Don't Look Back". Perhaps that film was too objective in its realism for the subject because Dylan later chose to take control of the editing of Mr. Pennebaker's follow-up film, "Eat The Document". I've always wondered how "The Last Waltz" would have turned out if Mr. Pennebaker had been chosen to record the event instead of Martin Scorsese.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 18:27:06 CET 2003 from libstfstx03.library.uiuc.edu (130.126.34.238)

Posted by:

Susan

Location: That place Bob and Carl sure do enjoy

Subject: Storyville

In honor of John D's interview this morning I put Storyville on for my tedious computer work. Instead of playing the usual Band fan game of 'Who would have sung the song in 1976' I gave special attention to Robbie's vocal style. Obviously his range is limited, and the only real vocal quality he can muster is that breathy sound, but he does a lot within his limits. I noted particularly that his vocal arrangements are much more elaborate than any the Band ever did - lots of extended vocal endings with long harmonic phrases. The Band's shared and overlapping vocals always sound simple, easy and inevitable to me. Certainly a lot of work went into achieving this, but the style is unobtrusive. Storyville vocals are a lot more like soul arrangements. They call attention to themselves as part of the emotional arc of the song. Rick's backing vocals on Hold Back The Dawn are about the simplest on the record.

Also noted; Soap Box Preacher is just about a direct quote from Grath's interview segment in TLW.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 18:25:58 CET 2003 from h-68-164-226-76.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.226.76)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

jtullfan, I can't help but notice that you're a touch touchy about this political party stuff. If'n you'll note, I kinda laid the Vietnam problem at Harry Truman's feet--or Roosevelt's poor health for that matter. I have no problem enjoying the foibles of both parties. And, as someone who can't use the smiley internet stuff, this is intended as a gentle chide, as jtullfan well knows. More of that patience stuff, Ed.

As to Dave Alvin, he was in Chicago to contribute some singing and playing to the latest Executionaer's Last Song compilation that the estimable Jon Langford is producing. We did The Green Green Grass of Home and another song I had never heard about a town feeling so bad about someone getting killed--there is a theme to this release, you know. Dave then played some very cool guitar on some other tracks. He's as nice as people get and a truly authentic artist. For the Band connect--other than the Basement Tapes reference--I played some piano on the Sally Timms/Edith Frost duet of Long Black Veil. Calm down, mattk.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 17:53:57 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Pat/Charlie...

Pat, you're right on that one. However, once we start reaching back that far our notions of our two political parties is not what they are today. It was Eisenhower (who was an independant prior to running for the presidency) who warned against and created the term 'military industrial complex'So he is hard to place in modern times. JFK would not be considered a liberal with today's connotations either. Nixon was a heavy drinker, and no doubt that played into some of his rantings in terms of the bombs. He was also not a typical republican by today's standards. Charlie: I don't think the namecalling helps in terms of Reagan. Love him or hate him politically (even his political enemies tended to like him personally), his administration's strategy of defeating communism by knocking them out economically was brilliant (ie. the Star Wars hoax). Who would have thought the U.S.S.R. and it's allies would fall without a shot fired and a mushroom cloud (whew!). Rice paddies not as important as oil fields? Damn right! Who cares. As I said earlier, what is important is ORDER, and who controls order. Peace is order and vice versa. If a third world country, or any country, wants to create a backwards society, I really don't care provided it does not threaten the rest of the world or the U.S. Iraq is a threat, has been a threat, supports other threats, invades its' neighbors, etc. Admit it or not, oil is crucial to the world's economic well being and will continue to be so until you can power your car with an atom.The rice fields of Vietnam, or North Korea, or inconsequential but to themselves. And if the North Koreans want to live that way (sans nukes)I really couldn't care less.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 17:45:32 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: The Most Romantic Song of All Time

Bob Dylan singing "Buckets of Rain"...if it doesn't send a message to the bottom of your soul...you have never really been in love


Entered at Wed Feb 26 17:36:34 CET 2003 from h-68-164-3-68.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.3.68)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

jtullfan, the first American soldier died in Vietnam in the 50's, as I recall 1956. That would mean Eisenhower put him there. Oddly, had Roosevelt lived, he probably wouldn't have let the French go back there, since Ho Chi Minh was on the allies side in WWII. And Richard Nixon suggested using atomic weapons to break the siege at Dien Bien Phu, displaying his usual tight grasp of things military.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 17:28:36 CET 2003 from (68.169.14.90)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny

Subject: Norah Jones Last Night on Letterman

Seeing Norah Jones singing without her piano and backed by her band on acoustic instruments impressed me last night, too, Crabby. Her songs do tend to be the same tempo and her vocal delivery can be a bit dry, but she shows promise. If Tony Bennett says she'll be around for a long time, I have to agree. Chances are she'll still be selling lots of discs when Brittney and Christina Aguillera are playing lounges in Atlantic City. Now I need to track down her versions of "Bessie Smith" and "It Makes No Difference."

A note to JTull Fan: the availability of Rolling Stones and Beatles records in the former Soviet Union starting in the early 1970s had more to do with the fall of their corrupt Communist government than anything that Bonzo the Chimp's former second banana did in the 1980's. Furthermore, the late, great Charles Kuralt (who--like Al Gore and unlike Bush and Cheney--actually spent substantial time in Viet Nam during the war) said that our involvement there was to protect Democracy. Rice fields are not as noble a cause as massive oil fields I suppose. By the way: it was Richard Nixon (a much better president than Reagan or either Bush) who stopped the US production of chemical and biological weapons in 1969. Unfortunately a lot of them were stuck in decommissioned Navy ships and dropped to the bottom of the Atlantic...


Entered at Wed Feb 26 17:29:30 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.141)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Web: My link

Subject: The Missing Link


Entered at Wed Feb 26 17:24:56 CET 2003 from (12.40.177.18)

Posted by:

Dave

Location: Minnesota

Subject: Curt and Alicia

Curt and Alicia: Great to have a couple new younger Band fans in Minneapolis! Please describe to us what your friends thought when you told them you were going to see "Big Pink". I'm sure it was, "You're going to see what? Who?"

In 1979, my friends and I had a Band Marathon at our house in North Minneapolis. 22 1/2 hours of nothing but The Band music, starting with "Stealin'", the Dylan/Band bootleg, and onward chronologically from Big Pink to several other bootlegs and all the studio stuff on through their solo albums. Most of my friends from school had no idea who The Band was and they wanted us to put on Free Bird. Instead, at "3 o'clock in the morning", we made sure we heard "I Came Here To Party", and somewhere during the night several of us got into the bathroom to croon our harmonies to "Jawbone".

I hope your trip is a start to a great life of great music travels, and don't miss several great local bands, including The Explodo Boys, The Red Snappers, and the Rowles/Lewis Music Experience for many great Band tunes.

Dave


Entered at Wed Feb 26 17:19:42 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.141)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Tired Of Hearing It

Peter, with all due respect , why is it necessary to include a remark that insults all of us in your response to Butch's post? Were we "tardy"? Were we reluctant warriors? Were we cautious? Were we led by a president who openly stated his aversion to war?

German forces invaded Austria in March of 1938. Did England respond immediately? German troops took Czechoslovakia in March of '39. Did England take up arms? Not until September of 1939 when Germany took Poland did England officially declare war. Was England "tardy" ? I think not but asking the Austrians and the Czechs may well elicit another opinion.

If you take the time to peruse the timeline provided by my link you will see that there were more than a few feet dragging at the onset of World War II. Take note of the many proclaimations of neutrality. I never hear you or anyone else here direct incendiary comments towards those countries that opted out all together. Interesting to note the shipment of England's gold to Canada as war approached. Your government was willing to wager a tidy sum that Canada would never suffer invasion. Any thoughts on what might have been the preeminent factor in that decision? And please Peter, it is not necessary to reiterate your love of the States. I believe that you believe, and that is well and good, but it in no way justifies the constant derogatories always used as a last resort. That particular slant has been utilized by several posters over the past few years and has both confounded and insulted me.

Also, please note Prime Minister Chamberlain's comments of September 1938 concerning Hitler's character. Apparently it was not as simple a task sixty years ago to assess world matters and make well informed decisions. It fascinates me that many are so quick to question current "aggressor" policies while the other side of their mouths are questioning our passive decision making and reluctance to create a "world war" sixty years ago. Damned if you do and damned if you don't is not an easy place to reside.

I regret this bit of commentary solely in respect to the GB community but not at all in taking to task this penchant for dredging up the silt of decisions made in what was, literally , another world.

I abhor the political bent of this place more every day and commentary directed squarely at the belly of America does nothing but fuel the fire. I have no interest in involving myself in any political discourse with you or anyone else concerning these matters. I respectfully request that you consider how comments of that nature read to the entire community before you make them. You, yourself, have openly requested that these debates and comments be taken to another forum or be communicated via email. What should have been a rifle shot oft times becomes a shotgun blast.

On a humorous note...Canadian Prime Minister William King's 9/1/39 seance.

rwigoataol.com

PEACE


Entered at Wed Feb 26 17:03:38 CET 2003 from du-tele3-196.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.196)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: PV refights WW2

The historian in me also thinks comparisons with 1938 and Chamberlain (“Peace in Our Time”) are mistaken. As someone pointed out on TV the other day when this same comparison was made, in 1938 one country claimed that another country was a threat to European safety and stability and that pre-emptive action was therefore necessary to remove the threat. But unfortunately that was Germany justifying its pre-emptive strike on Czechoslovakia. So for those who favour positive action, it is better not to mention 1938 at all.

Also simplistic readings of WW2 irritate me. It wasn’t simply “America saving the world”. The turning point was the insane decision to invade Russia which absorbed huge quantities of German manpower and resources. Britain was indeed kept going with American aid and lease-lend from 1939-1941, for which we are still grateful – and the repayments to the USA were the biggest item in our national budget over the next 40 years and crippled our economy throughout the 1950s. And it was paid. Canadians pointed out last time this was debated, that in terms of soldier deaths in proportion to population, the Canadians suffered the greatest losses of the three participants in the D-Day Landings. Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers are more bits of badly distorted history.

Sorry- you’ve got me doing it too! Back to the music!!!


Entered at Wed Feb 26 17:00:01 CET 2003 from dyn-pool1-172.hargray.net (64.203.192.172)

Posted by:

Lucy

The Band ROCKS!!!


Entered at Wed Feb 26 16:59:04 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

Curt & Alicia!!!!!!!!! Thank you.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 16:55:22 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Richard Vietnam

Richard, I may check it out, but it may surprise you and a lot out here that I think the U.S. NEVER should have become involved in that mess, and if I were of age at the time, I probably would have been marching against it. We had nothing to gain there, no defined objective, and no exit strategy. We lost a lot of prestige, blood, and fortune and for nothing. We got trapped in a mentality of fighting communism everywhere, when in the end, we only had to hit them in the wallet as Reagan did in the 80's and that was that.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 16:43:48 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: French WWII

Good line about the LBJ and the French - very clever if it is true! As for the great German war machine of WWII, it was all smoke and mirrors early on. While Hitler masqueraded power (in the early mid 30's), he was able to actually build that power while the French and then, the British sat back and watched, too timid to get punched in the nose. Had the French shown any kind of balls, they could have easily routed the smoke and mirror act of the early Hitler Germany. But timid minds usually prefer to keep waiting and sitting for the supposed "real truth" to rear its head before they actually do anything, then, generally it's too late. Lessons ignored in History, always come back to repeat themselves. Hussein is playing the game perfectly..., time is on his side.., the more wavering, the less might the US will seemingly have. As much of a dove as I'd like to be, take him out before April, or we'll be in a prolonged affair that will once again work in Hussiens favor. The master manipulator.., sounds familiar.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 16:39:46 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: post wit the most

Peter Viney enjoyed your last posting in the gb, just goes to show what a can of worms we live in.

Curt & Alicia Bravo!! you have made a lot of people warmer and happy this day.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 16:35:08 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

How can you compare Eartha Kitt with Macy Gray? Have you gone crazy!?!?!?! Eartha has more in the way of talent, class and sensuality in her pinky (on her left hand) alone!! Shame on you. tsk tsk tsk


Entered at Wed Feb 26 16:25:58 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

For a lot of people who are anti-American it doesn't matter if the President of the US is a Republican or a Democrat. Naturally, US foreign policy rubs many nations the wrong way. However, many times anti-Americanism has a lot to do with the behaviour of American servicemen stationed overseas. That's part of the reason for the recent spate of anti-American feeling in South Korea (if I'm not mistaken two young girls were run over by an American military vehicle and while the court found the soldier not guilty, it didn't sit too well with the Koreans); On Okinawa, through the years, US servicemen have been involved in breaking and entries, robberies, assaults and even rapes. The most infamous of these taking place back in 1996 (I could be mistaken about the year, but it was during the mid to late '90s) when 3 servicemen raped an elementary school student. So for every 10 good things that the military may do for a local community (helping out at orphanages, etc) the 1 bad thing cancels out the good.

Now the US hasn't cornered the market about being disliked....there are many countries in East Asia who still despise Japan for what happened either under colonial rule or during the war (South Korea and China are the obvious examples); France and Britain are still despised in parts of Africa (even Italy in Libya and Somalia); the Russians by most Eastern Europeans...the list is long and goes back a long way. I'm sure there were many who detested the Roman Empire

That said though, it doesn't help the US' image by being a sore loser (a non-political analogy: the US hockey team's behaviour at the Nagano Oylmpics) , but more importantly by being a sore winner: Europe knows that without American intervention in WW II, they'd be still under the heel of a group of goose-stepping madmen , and they also know that without the generosity and benefits of the Marshall Plan, the prosperity they enjoy today would be non-existant. So there is no need for the quasi-childlike "if it wasn't for us, then you'd be..." that many Americans are fond of doing (evidence the post by Butch...not Butch...well, you know what I mean) in times like these when it seems that many parts of the world are "against them". It makes the US look rather ill-equiped to be the the only super power remaining

And on a final note, stop comparing what is happening today with the situation in 1938. The best analogy I've read is comparing today with the Spanish-American War (at the moment it escapes me where I read this)

I've ranted, it's out of my system and now it's time to talk about something else (for me that is).....liked those Big Pink pictures....and the retro-ish buckskin jackets!


Entered at Wed Feb 26 16:25:32 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: Richards – suggestions (we gonna enjoy US for a long time ….)

Bruce Sprinsteen – Worlds Apart
Sheryl Crowe - Strong Enough To Be Your Man
Bob Dylan – Cross the green mountain
Dwight Yoakam – A thounsand miles from nowhere
Jackson Browne – The nacked ride home...

Movies
Gods and Generals

Books:
Norman Mac Lean in «A river runs through it »:
« All good things, trout as well as eternal salvation, came by grace, and grace comes by art, and art does not come easy »

That’s perhaps the good reason why i respect US

footnote : you can verify that this post is written with a frienship heart


Entered at Wed Feb 26 15:49:12 CET 2003 from 223.64.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.64.223)

Posted by:

Dexy

Subject: Curt and Alicia

Great shots, looks like a great time. Thanks.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 15:47:59 CET 2003 from mcha-ab039.taconic.net (205.231.148.134)

Posted by:

Lil

Curt & Alicia: What a wonderful travelogue! Thanks so much for sharing it with us!

Anyone planning to listen to our own John Donabie's interview with RR will have to wait till Saturday morning, 7:40 EST. It will _not_ be aired live this morning. Sorry.

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 15:44:34 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.219)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Subject: EN

JOHN D: Good luck bud. Don't get hustled by a "Carney" :-).

EN: To answer your question directly, Yes (IMHO). This may be the beginning of the end of U.S. domination in the fields of politics AND and pop music (the decline in the quality of U.S. films already happened years ago), but the rest of the world only stands to gain from this. "World Music" may finally earn the U.S. consumer dollars that it deserves and the best local music of smaller countries may finally gain pre-eminence in sales over putrid American top-ten imports.

The upside for the U.S. is that maybe (hopefully) quality will once again become popular in the charts and on the radio airwaves. Witness the latest Grammy’s. I think Norah Jones is great and I remember getting a lot of flak in here for suggesting that Macy Gray reminded me of Eartha Kitt (sp? -ie. "Catwoman").

J Tull Fan: Check out the Graham Greene novel "The Quiet American" (the movie is great but it doesn't emphasis the same theme) for another opinion on the nature of American involvement in creating the circumstances that brought about the Vietnam War.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 15:44:20 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: Jtull fan – Thanks

ooof….I hope now all will return to The Band. A Robbie Robertson interview is expected. Please.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 15:29:53 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: The more it stays the same the less it changes

Ben, if I recall, Vietnam was JFK and LBJ's thing, which they inherited from our buddies the French, who, when convenient to them, are certainly not pacifists. Where were all you Francofiles when they blew up and sunk the Greanpeace boat protesting French nuclear tests in the Pacific 10 years or so ago? E.N. : Yes, the world will be a much lesser and more dangerous place if U.S. power declines. Europe cannot even pull together and take care of Kosovo without our aid (which I opposed at the time). There is no peace without order, and order is imposed. Sometimes benignly, sometimes not. But either way, ultimately, there will be peace, and the way you have a say in that is to to strong. BEN: Iraq is not a country that stays within it's borders. If you spent less time namecalling and more time paying attention, you would know that.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 15:01:45 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

It's good that while great minds like Butch were handcuffing the Clinton Presidency, making the world a more dangerous place for all of us for the pettiest of political self promotion; now, with the same shameless, drooling blather of true degeneracy they have the tiny stones to imply the great catasrophe of the Bush watch was also Clinton's fault. See Berger's attempts to distract Oil Company Bimbo Condoleeza Rice to dispell that yarn. Well, at least he doesn't try to claim Rumsfeld wrote "When You Awake". and today's misive was a little lighter on the Klan soundbites.

As I am not the first to point out, cheesy comparisons to Chamberlain are the idiot's delight of the right. Chamberlain, of course, was not contemplating routing a small country who was sitting within it's own borders; but trying to split the diference with the then most powerful military in the world; bent on conquest. In short, it's a illusion for chumps.

Great Chickenhawk rejoiner: Tiresome twirp/pundant George Will joked in recent weeks "How many Frenchman does it take to defend Paris? No one knows, it's never been tried." To which one sly poster suggested a joke with basicly the same punch line: "How many right wing pundits does it take to attack the North Vietnamise?"


Entered at Wed Feb 26 14:24:24 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Curt and Alicia in Minneapolis

That's exactely what I needed this morning Curt & Alicia. Great shots and an angle of Big Pink which I never walked over to in my visits there. Great Wintery Photos. Makes me want to put on "Woodstock Winter" by Tom Pacheco.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 14:11:43 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: John D's Interview

Bon chance

Be well and take care


Entered at Wed Feb 26 13:58:20 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: No Band Connection

All my respects to all the GBers who posted about the topic. I dislike repeating myself (see my previous 40 posts). Early or tardy arrival, dispatched throughout world countries or gathered in America, empire or republic….

Am I the only one here to be convinced that if USA is weakened now (in any manner), it is the end of Mankind ?


Entered at Wed Feb 26 13:40:43 CET 2003 from du-tele3-252.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.252)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Phew! Long post there, Butch. You must have been watching too many movies like U-571 which give the false impression that the USA won WW2 single-handedly in spite of their somewhat tardy arrival on the scene. Anyway, to be even-handed, here’s a quote you will enjoy. Even The Guardian (left wing) quoted it yesterday. In 1966 Charles De Gaulle phoned LBJ and said he wanted all American troops removed from French soil. LBJ immediately replied, ‘Does that include all those buried there?’ The Daily Mail (on the right) had a page of xenophobic anti-French jokes instead.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 13:06:25 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: Bayou Sam - Please check the link (Windows Media Player)


Entered at Wed Feb 26 12:46:41 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

Location: St. Paul

Subject: Curt & Alicia

Great pictures, what a great trip that must of been...


Entered at Wed Feb 26 12:42:04 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: The DJ syndrom

Tiny Monster: we talked about The Band


Entered at Wed Feb 26 12:22:53 CET 2003 from 172.red-80-58-4.pooles.rima-tde.net (80.58.4.172)

Posted by:

Box

Location: Madrid, Spain

The best site I´ve ever seen. And the best r'n'r band I've ever heard. First time I knew abaut the Band was when I was a brat and my brother took me to the cinema to see the last waltz, few months lates I started into guitar and today I still playing it in diffenent bands. Greetings from Spain.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 09:29:09 CET 2003 from ool-4355ba16.dyn.optonline.net (67.85.186.22)

Posted by:

Sean

Location: South Armpit New Jersey

Subject: Norah and the Band

For those of you who don't know, Norah's band have been playing some of the Band's music on their live sets. It only makes sense because her band is pretty much the same format, with a laid back organist I think, with the piano and everything else; very classy for a band on Top 40 and that's why I'm really pissed off I can't see her as tickets are astronomically expensive, but I have heard "Bessie Smith" in a breezy jazz format which is fantastic. I also know, that from their getting into the Last Waltz DVD on tour, they have also been playing my favorite Danko vocal, "It Make's no Difference." Does anybody know where to find their version? I have been scouring the sites and if any does have it downloaded, please let me know where to find it. Anyhow Let's put it this way, she's only a year older than I am (22 years) and I hope more musicians my age will learn to appreciate the Band and more importantly, keep singing their songs, as the original voices (the most pure harmonies in rock in roll) have since passed. P.S. Thank god she kicked Avril Lavigne's ass at the Grammys. (Sorry to any die hard Canadian pop "punk" fans)


Entered at Wed Feb 26 08:30:36 CET 2003 from 1cust254.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.254)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Norah on Letterman

Okay, I'm a convert - loved Norah's song styling, unaffected demeanor, and choice of musicians. Will pick up her album tomorrow. I think she'll wear much better in the long run than Macy Gray who was raved about in the GB when she first arrived. Liked her at first, but it wasn't long before her voice, singing style, and odd mannerisms started to get on my nerves - now I find her irritating to the extreme.

Comedy genius Letterman - a riot as usual - thinks that a mock Grammy trophy made of the flesh of dead animals (luncheon meats) is somehow humorous - a gag stolen from the show of that other minimal comedic talent Conan O'Brien who replaced him on NBC. If there were no jobs as hosts for late night TV shows I wonder what these guys could do for a living.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 07:27:29 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

John D: that's an intriguing bit of info you gave us.....would I come across as being too pushy by demanding for more (more more more) details?!?

Brown Eyed Girl: Enjoy your trip to Cuba...remember to slap on the sunscreen so you don't get burnt!


Entered at Wed Feb 26 07:04:22 CET 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Posted by:

Tiny Monster

Location: Out-There
Web: My link

Subject: "?"

I've been working overtime the last couple weeks
and haven't been able to really check in here.
So what have you all been talking about ?

Peace



Entered at Wed Feb 26 06:09:25 CET 2003 from 1cust49.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.49)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Norah Jones

Just read in the New York Post (my secondary major source for news) that Norah Jones is guesting on Letterman tonight - only good reason to watch that show. I've never heard her so I'm gonna tune in.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 06:03:27 CET 2003 from pool-138-89-101-76.mad.east.verizon.net (138.89.101.76)

Posted by:

Ophelia

Location: NYC

Subject: Bottom Line

To Butch: Not too obvious personal comment about the audience at the Bottom Line. Everythings about keeping score with you,,,,The more things change, the more they stay the same. Still a pinky-sized putz trying to be an 8 incher.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 05:42:35 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: RR & The Hawk

Ronnie Hawkins will be presenting Robbie Robertson's Lifetime Achievement Award at the National Aboriginal Achievement Awards in Ottawa in March. Also get ready for one more great stand from Ronnie and members of the Original Band coming soon..........


Entered at Wed Feb 26 05:26:01 CET 2003 from as3-1-70.hip.berkeley.edu (136.152.193.248)

Posted by:

Dave Hopkins

Location: Berkeley, CA

Subject: this is sad

From Billboard:

Howie Epstein, 47, former bassist for Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers, died at a hospital in Santa Fe, N.M. late Monday night. Santa Fe County Sheriff Greg Solano says that while the cause of Epstein's death was as yet undetermined, the musician had been transported to the hospital by a female companion who told police that Epstein had been using heroin, and had also been taking prescription antibiotics for an illness.

"We are deeply saddened at the news of Howie's passing," reads a statement from Petty & the Heartbreakers. "It's difficult to put into words how much we loved him and will miss him. The world has lost a great talent and a kind and gently soul. We can only take solace in knowing he is now at peace. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and his many friends."

Epstein played with the Heartbreakers from 1982, when he replaced original bassist Ron Blair, until last year; at that time, the band said it had parted company with him "because of his ongoing personal problems." In 2001, Epstein and his then-girlfriend, singer Carlene Carter, were arrested in New Mexico after three grams of heroin were found in the couple's car.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 04:36:31 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Subject: Last Waltz edits

Did you ever notice the obvious edit in the middle of the part where Garth is talking about music? It's a quick cut, but obviously he had said more, and someone decided to trim it down. I alway's wondered what else garth may have said.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 02:18:29 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3613308.sympatico.ca (65.93.195.167)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: ;-D

;-D = teasing.....Band connection....The Dutch bass player from Sjako!......whose Band covers Band songs would include these symbols in my email....This one too....:-D....

Anyway, I wouldn't have hesitated to skip class.....Thanks Peter for not being PRESUMPTIOUS like a few others....

BTW...Someone who used to post does know one of Robbie's daughters.....So he might know about the tone of posts concerning him.....Positive and Negative...I've always tried to concentrate on Robbie as an artist and musician...It's all about the music for me.....If it was only about Robbie....Would I have paid to travel and see in New York...Garth...Jim Weider Band...and Levon?.......I have also shared my photos of ROBBIE...GARTH...LEVON...with this website.....


Entered at Wed Feb 26 02:01:32 CET 2003 from pix53.gage.com (216.17.33.62)

Posted by:

Hazy Davy

Location: Hennepin County

Subject: Folklore. The Cutting Room Floor.

Seems to me many GBers would enjoy a novel that references The Rolling Stones and Tin Pan Alley, dissects the creation of pop culture in general and the music business in particular, plus describes how a folk song covered by Van Morrison came to be.

Interested? The novel is "John Henry Days" by Colson Whitehead. I read it while on vacation. It's 70 degrees colder up here than Arizona! 70!

As for Scorcese choosing not to cut out RR's "plug that" comment, I took it as a hint, a moment of pure honesty and confession that we may be watching a "made" thing and not the "real" thing at any given moment, so watch out!

Documentaries use all kinds of techniques to pass themselves off as real, as objective. But of course there is always an element of subjectivity, a message.

Come to think of it, I think this very subject was the topic of my very first post here, about two years ago!

Funny to see it come round. I'm sure the most senior GBers have seen many subjects that, like comets, appear and disappear again and again...

"John Henry Days" has a short chapter devoted to another rock documentary, a little thing called "Gimme Shelter." I've only seen it once (but on the big screen!) and have often meant to go back and re-watch it to see how much manipulation it contains (the film is so exciting, and the Stones look and sound so great, it overshadows everything). Sometimes I wonder how set-up that final scene is, when Jagger sees the Man in Green for the (supposedly) first time.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 01:43:31 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Dan = I would think that The Band wasn't suffering from lack of material as much as lack of the old "chemistry" toward the end there.

I like your question though asking Robbie if he might think about working with Garth again.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 01:38:56 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Subject: all kinds of musical suff

Ed = thanks - I'd heard something about that Harrison tribute CD, but I haven't heard anything from it yet. McGuin doing "If I Needed Someone" is a natural for him, with the 12-string guitar....I came across that George version of "It Don't Come Easy" a couple of years ago. I don't think it pre-dates Ringo's though. Ringo only put it out shortly after the Beatles split. Also, the GH version is the same backing track as Ringo's - just edited a little different. It's a very cool track though hearing George do the song. It stuns Beatle fans that haven't heard it. It flipped me out the first time. I got to wondering if maybe George had a hand in the writing of the song, even though it's credited to just Ringo (oops - sore subject). I listened to alot of George today on his birthday.

John D - Cool. Have fun jawing with Robbie. Peter beat me to what I was going to say, which is to see if you can find out if Robbie has any thoughts on this website, and if he ever visits it. I also would love to know if he ever thought of writing a book. Either an autobiography, or maybe a definative music book (words, chords)on the Band's music.

I just heard on the news that Howie Epstein, longtime Tom Petty bass player was found dead. They suspect drugs. Apparently he was recently let go from the band. Sad.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 01:36:15 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-020castocp0504.dialsprint.net (65.178.73.250)

Posted by:

rollie

Subject: JW

Great John! Nice to know we have a bona fide butcher in here.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 00:55:56 CET 2003 from mcha-ai081.taconic.net (205.231.28.81)

Posted by:

Lil

Thanks to everyone who answered my question about John Mayer. Seems the kids in my daughters school somehow got the impression that he's 16 (obviously from the Grammy's). I thought he looks more like mid-twenties...so I guess that solves that. Thanks again.


Entered at Wed Feb 26 00:50:02 CET 2003 from (216.199.106.18)

Posted by:

Dan

Location: Orlando

Subject: Robbie Interview

John D. Good luck with the interview. I'm curious as to 1. Why when The Band was hurting for material, they never dusted off one of those wonderful outtakes from the Basement Tapes or Music From Big Pink? 2. Why "Between Trains" was left off Classic Masters? 3. Did he ever think Garth would put out something like Sea to the North & would he be interested in collaborating with Garth? 4. If he had a week to do a "Traveling Wilburys," who would he like to work with? 5. How did Bob compose songs during the B.T. and how was that similar to/different from he & Richard?


Entered at Wed Feb 26 00:02:47 CET 2003 from node.64-52-67.213.ip.pgt.ebrb.net (64.52.67.213)

Posted by:

Elizabeth

Location: New York

Subject: John Mayer

From information on a web-site devoted to John Mayer, he is 26 years old. I think the confusion stems from the fact that he said (paraphrasing) that his Grammy win took away his usual equilibrium and made him feel like a 16 year old.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 23:53:19 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: John Mayer

I believe John Mayer is now 24 years old. After his very brief stint at Berklee he moved down here to Atlanta. He achieved a great following playing in various local clubs around town. His big break came when he performed at the 2000 South By Southwest music conference in Austin which led to his signing with a major label.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 23:43:44 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: John Mayer

I was just reading an article on Mayer........ Lil and although my wife and I swore he said he was 16; there is an indication he was 19 when he began at Berklee. That would make him over 20 by now. Perhaps he was reflecting back the other night to his playing in clubs; which I believe began when he was around 15.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 23:41:52 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Calvin

Subject: The Grammy Awards

Kalervo, you really shouldnt let the Grammy Awards upset you so. They are clearly "The Best Of" awards for the people who have sold a lot. I dont think anyone really believes they really annoint who the best artists are.

You are right about Norah Jones though, definately listenable music, better than a lot of new artists-but I cant be the only one who sees her as a lightweight 21st version of Billy Holliday or Dinah Washington. But then she is what, 23? It was a good effort but it wasnt even the best album by a young woman who sang and played piano in the jazz arena much less album of the year.

I guess what I'm saying is dont let the labels bother you, I tend to pick up Paste or No Deppression to find about new acts I might listen to, strangely enough Entertainment Weekly does a pretty good job of reviewing albums that arent in the top 10.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 23:37:56 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: John Mayer

Lil, I heard him say he was 16 on the Grammy's the other night and I was shocked. I had no idea he was that young. Last word on this. Anyone interested in my chat with RR can hear it Saturday morning between 7:40 and 7:50 Eastern time at www.cfrb.com You will have to download Surfnet to hear it.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 22:59:02 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Answer to EN

I believe the first country to recognize the U.S. was Spain. Trick question there.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 22:32:06 CET 2003 from cache-hki-6.inet.fi (194.251.240.114)

Posted by:

Kalervo

Location: Finland
Web: My link

Subject: Superficial Grammy Awards

Are these superficial glitter shows only way to get to know new artists here??

I find Grammy Awards really nonsense and superficial. Very predictable artists....Coldplay - the best alternative music---let me laugh. Coldplay is a good band, but there is nothing alternative in them....And Norah Jones is a fine artist, but so are many others. 7 awards is ridicilous..

It makes me angry that world is full of many new and old fine artists and those who are already selling too many records get rewarded...Want names? I can give easily 100 who are just as good as those awarded...



Entered at Tue Feb 25 20:54:30 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Location: The Barbarian Coutries
Web: My link

Subject: Butch

Butch: thanks for pointing out "the accurate knowledge of history" and listing the traditional US ennemies

Question: which was the first country in the world to recognize the United States of America as an independent and Sovereign Nation ?

They dated, you can be confident with them


Entered at Tue Feb 25 20:52:26 CET 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Posted by:

Bones

It is no secret that Ravi is Norah's father, but he did not have anything to do with her growing up. My guess is that she is less than thrilled he held an interview after her big Grammy win.

John D: I'm excited about your interview with Robbie. Please let us know how it works out. Ask him what happened to the collaboration project with Eric Clapton a few years back?


Entered at Tue Feb 25 20:47:41 CET 2003 from gpf-t198.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.198)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: Slave Songs of the United States

Bill from Toronto -- I posted a quote from this book a couple of weeks ago. The original was scanned and is e-vailable at the link. Again, I think song #83 is intriguing....
There are a number of French-language songs listed toward the end of the collection for those with an interest in Cajun culture or the Acadian diaspora. These French folk songs seem pretty durable, the sort of thing you might hear from Doug Kershaw or (with 'better' diction) Kate & Anna McGarrigle.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 20:16:14 CET 2003 from du-tele3-147.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.147)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

John D- Have a great day tomorrow. Reading back, I think BEG was just saying how fortunate you were and how she’d happily skip work to do something like this. Didn’t see anything to be offended about. Anyway, if you get the chance, ask him what he knows about this site (as artists like Fripp, Elvis Costello etc do correspond with their sites). Most interesting is new stuff in the pipeline of course – and as you know better than me every interviewee wants to talk future not past.

In every British review I’ve read of Norah Jones there’s been mention that Ravi is her dad. Don’t think it’s a secret. I remember her replying in one that she didn’t want to ride on his reputation and that he hadn’t influenced her musically. BBut no secrets there.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 20:12:06 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: Big Pink DVD-A

John: When I first listened to the new DVD-A version, several tracks sounded so different that I thought they'd used some alternate versions. After going back & listening to my reference copies of the original release I realised that the new surround-sound mix used the same original multi-tracks as a source but in many cases, especially with Garth's keyboards, certain instruments are brought forward in the mix. This is a delight because you can now hear all the different layers of keyboards that Garth played, as well as Richard's piano & the other instruments, with greater clarity. The change in the vocals is not as pronounced because they were always forward in the original mix -- the new surround mixes do add a more spatial quality however.

I've read that Robbie Robertson supervised these new mixes John, so perhaps you can asked him about this in your interview (:-)

dpowell@pgfmdotcom


Entered at Tue Feb 25 19:46:43 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: John D's interview

Sorry, I meant to wish you luck as well...I can imagine (or try to)how difficult this may be for you...don't go in carrying the past and do what you know is right...you can't go wrong if you do...

Take care and be well


Entered at Tue Feb 25 19:40:21 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Just waitin' for a thread...



Entered at Tue Feb 25 19:19:09 CET 2003 from sam16.revealed.net (208.16.227.111)

Posted by:

Mike D.

Something about a Harrison tribute cd? I'll have to get that one. Nice to see Roger McGuinn a part of such a project. Sam (wherever you are), you might wanna check it out.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 19:15:09 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Big Pink Audio DVD

Mr. Powell. Just finished listening to the Audio DVD. Not as much "in your face" as TLW. My back speakers didn't get the same work out as TLW. Didn't get that swirling feeling I guess is what I'm trying to say. One question? Do you notice a different organ track off the top of "We Can Talk." Sounds (close off the top) then totally different to me. Sorry to post openly David; but I lost my hardcopy e-mails after wiping my computer awhile back.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 19:14:53 CET 2003 from sam16.revealed.net (208.16.227.111)

Posted by:

Mike D.

Subject: TLW's Chest Fever/Pat B.

Pat B., I seem to recall the reason for Chest Fever not being complete on the box set is because it couldn't be located on the 24 track tapes. Though what was used on the box set is from the 2-track mixes used for the film. At least that's what I have read.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 18:58:11 CET 2003 from (65.88.119.254)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: Nora's Dad

Taken from yesterdays Fox News Web Site

Did Norah Ignor-ah Her Dad?

And then there's the really strange story of Norah Jones, the nearly 24-year-old who swept the Grammy's with her little jazz album. There's lots of trivia in this story, enough for three gossip columns.

In her many acceptance speeches, Jones thanked her mother but never mentioned her father, Indian composer Ravi Shankar. Not once.

Now, Jones resembles her father physically — she is small and dark and cute and looks very much like her half-sister. She does not look like her mother, who is tall (like five-eight), thin and has a head of curly gray hair.

At EMI's after-party at Blue Fin, when I asked the mother if there was music in her family, she said, "No. But I have a great record collection!"

When I said, "It must come from Ravi's side?" she snapped, "No!"

Then she said, "Don't go there, leave me out of this! I want to stay normal!"


Entered at Tue Feb 25 18:53:21 CET 2003 from mcha-aj021.taconic.net (205.231.150.21)

Posted by:

Lil

Does anyone know how old (or young) John Mayer is? I really like him, and my daughter (who I just picked up from school with 104 fever) tells me he's only a few years older than she is. She's 13. Is it the fever talking, or is she right? Thanks.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 18:43:42 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: Norah Jones

Norah Jones is indeed Ravi Shankar's duaghter. Ms. Jones is understandably reticent about discussing the private matter of Mr. Shankar's relationship with her mother, Sue Jones. Norah Jones was born in New York and raised by her mother in Texas. It is interesting to note that Ms. Jones' half-sister, Anoushka, is also an accomplished musician, having followed in her father's footsteps in the mastery of the sitar.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 18:35:51 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Putupyerdukes - I had read that report, too. But without a DNA test, the only one who can "substantiate" it is Norah Jones' mother!


Entered at Tue Feb 25 18:19:27 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

butch ( the real one )

Location: reality

Subject: a soldier's POV

since all the sides are weighing in,,,, ill reprint a vet's point of view,, it matches mine fairly closely,,,

& if ya dont like it,, i dont like a lot of yours either,, & i dont flame any of ya,,,,,,

This one is definitely NOT tongue in cheek. Sig, the author, was a teen-aged Marine who marched and fought as a rifleman to and from the Chosin reservoir in Korea in 1950. He switched to the Army, and served as a Special Forces officer in Vietnam. After Vietnam he joined the CIA, and went back to Korea. He's been there, done it, and has some specific thoughts on countries that don't "like" us.

If you aren't interested in the ramblings of an old man, please delete now. If you're still there, pull up a chair and listen. Is there anyone else out there who's sick and tired of all the polls being taken in foreign countries as to whether or not they "like" us? The last time I looked, the word "like" had nothing to do with foreign policy. I prefer 'respect' or 'fear'. They worked for Rome, which civilized and kept the peace in the known world a hell of a lot longer than our puny two centuries-plus. I see a left-wing German got elected to office recently by campaigning against the foreign policy of the United States. Yeah, that's what I want, to be lectured about war and being a "good neighbor" by a German. Their head honcho said they wouldn't take part in a war against Iraq. Kind of nice, to see them taking a pass on a war once in while. Perhaps we needed to have the word "World" in front of War. I think it's time to bring our boys home from Germany. Outside of the money we'd save, we'd make the Germans "like" us a lot more, after they started paying the bills for their own defense. Last time I checked, France isn't too fond of us either. They sort of liked us back on June 6th, 1944, though, didn't they? If you don't think so, see how nicely they take care of the enormous American cemeteries up above the Normandy beaches. For those of you who've studied history, we also have a few cemeteries in places like Belleau Woods and Chateau Thierry also. For those of you who haven't studied it, that was from World War One, the first time Europe screwed up and we bailed out the French. That's where the US Marines got the title 'Devil Dogs' or, if you still care about what the Germans think, "Teufelhunde". I hope I spelled that right; sure wouldn't want to offend anyone, least of all a German. Come to think of it, when Europe couldn't take care of their Bosnian problem recently, guess who had to help out there also. Last time I checked, our kids are still there. I sort of remember they said they would be out in a year. Gee, how time flies when you're having fun. Now we hear that the South Koreans aren't too happy with us either. They "liked" us a lot better, of course, in June, 1950. It took more than 50,000 Americans killed in Korea to help give them the lifestyle they currently enjoy, but then who's counting? I think it's also time to bring the boys home from there. There are about 37,000 young Americans on the DMZ separating the South Koreans from their "brothers" up North. Maybe if we leave, they can begin to participate in the "good life" that North Korea currently enjoys. Uh huh. Sure. I also understand that a good portion of the Arab/Moslem world now doesn't "like" us either. Did anyone ever sit down and determine what we would have to do to get them to like us? Ask them what they would like us to do. Die?. Commit ritual suicide? Bend over? Maybe we should follow the advice of our dimwitted, dullest knife in the drawer, Senator Patty Murray, and build more roads, hospitals, day care centers, and orphanages like Osama bin Laden does. What with all the orphans Osama has created, the least he can do is build some places to put them. Senator Stupid says if we would only "emulate" Osama, the Arab world would love us. Sorry Patty; in addition to the fact that we already do all of those things around the world and have been doing them for over sixty years, I don't take public transportation, and I certainly wouldn't take it with a bomb strapped to the guy next to me. Don't get me wrong: I'm not in favor of going to war. Been there, done that. Several times, in fact. But I think we ought to have some polls in this country about other countries, and see if we "like" THEM. Problem is, if you listed the countries, not only wouldn't the average American know if he liked them or not, he wouldn't be able to find them. If we're supposed to worry about them, how about them worrying about us? We were nice to the North Koreans in 1994, as we followed the policies of Neville Clinton. And it seemed to work; they didn't re-start nuclear weapons program for a whole year or so. In the meantime, we fed them when they were starving, and put oil in their stoves when they were freezing. In a recent visit to Norway, I engaged in a really fun debate with my cousin's son, a student at a Norwegian University. I was lectured to by this thankless squirt about the American "Empire", and scolded about dropping the atomic bomb on the Japanese. I reminded him that empires usually keep the stuff they take; we don't, and back in 1945 most Norwegians thought dropping ANY kind of bomb on Germany or Japan was a good idea. I also reminded him that my uncle, his grandfather, and others in our family spent a significant time in Sachsenhausen concentration camp, courtesy of the Germans, and they didn't all survive. I further reminded him that if it wasn't for the "American Empire" he would probably be speaking German or Russian. Sorry about the rambling, but I just took an unofficial poll here at our house, and we don't seem to like anyone. Sig "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us." George Orwell


Entered at Tue Feb 25 18:15:10 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

PutUpYerDukes

A neighborhood acquaintance, by no means a rumor monger or deluded individual, just told me that she read that Norah Jones is Ravi Shankar's daughter. I can't imagine how that could have been kept under wraps for so long. Can any one substantiate this report?

If this is true, bring on the rest of the family!


Entered at Tue Feb 25 18:08:47 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Rollie - No, I did not miss it (I was in the C.I.A. in those days).


Entered at Tue Feb 25 18:01:54 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.103)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: John D.

John D., I hope this visit works out better for you than the last.

My question, if you are so inclined....In retrospect, knowing what you know now and having the benefit of the time that has passed, would you have done anything differently with the "business" side of The Band?

Good luck John. Looking forward to reading about your experience.

In my mind the "true star" is the music magically performed by all five members.

PEACE


Entered at Tue Feb 25 17:35:39 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: TLW

Regarding TLW interview segments -- It's quite possible that many performances from the concert had to be cut to make room for the interviews. It's my opinion that one interview, with all the group members present, would have been sufficient to explain the significance of the concert. I also feel that someone better qualified & familiar with The Band's music, such as Robert Palmer or Greil Marcus, should have been chosen as the interviewer.

Speaking of interviews -- good luck John D. I would be curious to know when RR might be releasing some new music. Maybe getting together with Daniel Lanois will coax him into the studio if he's not already working on a new project.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 17:28:47 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-019castocp0283.dialsprint.net (65.178.65.29)

Posted by:

Rollie

Subject: Good morning JW!

Golly, you're so sensitive!! I'll bet you're sorry you missed out on that invasion in Panama a few years back......


Entered at Tue Feb 25 17:22:06 CET 2003 from h-68-164-6-42.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.6.42)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Wasn't TLW's Chest Fever either lost or not recorded? Although I can't pinpoint the source, I have struggled under that impression.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 17:17:51 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Rollie - Stupid analogy. Dubya is not just going off and doing whatever he wants. He IS "going to the police" -- by building a coalition, getting the endorsement of the Senate and the U.N. before taking action. Second, he sure has a lot more evidence on the opponent than you have on your "Mr. Johnson." Third, the so called offenses committed by these "neighbors" in your story are trivial compared with the real mass butchery and enslavement which Dubya is trying to correct. Of course this ground has all been covered before, you seem deaf to it so I don't expect you to get it now. I guess "People of Conscience" can only come with one ideoolgy -- liberal. After all, "We are the real people of conscience. Those conservatives are all about power and greed. We are the ones who admire, and work for, the working class. Although we are going to reach into their pockets and increase their taxes, that's all for the greater social good. We are the ones who stand up for the oppressed and downtrodden in other lands. Of course, when we really have an opportunity to help some of them gain freedom, we will turn away and appease their dictator a la Neville Chamberlain. But of course, it is we on the liberal side who are the real "People of Conscience," not those nasty evil power hungry condervatives."

John D. - Please do say hello from all us Band fans, even us Levon heads.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 16:59:27 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

Enjoy yourself John D... it's too bad people feel a need to attack whenever you, Paul, Serge and Lil try to share... personal stories... I always enjoy them myself...

I seem to recall Robbie starting to write songs too... hope something solo is forthcoming... more crickets please... and geetar...


Entered at Tue Feb 25 16:58:02 CET 2003 from (65.88.119.254)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA

Subject: John D

John, hope the interview goes well. I am sure you already have an idea of what will be discussed, however, if you can find out what new RR material we can exect and about the lost songs he discovered during the reissue period, this would be great.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 16:24:18 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: not all anglo saxons are the same

Rollie thanks for the humorous piece. glad to see that some anglo saxons can think outside of the pyramid. power and greed are viruses, always with us, quick to breed, but with carefull study can be made to lie dormant or change in nature completely. hope spings eternal [:-)


Entered at Tue Feb 25 16:14:05 CET 2003 from mcha-aj047.taconic.net (205.231.150.47)

Posted by:

Lil

John D: (hi! :-) Good luck with your interview tomorrow. I expect a full report :-)
I also want to add something to your last post. I stopped posting personal stories a long time ago because of people "presuming" things. When I first found this place, I was under the mistaken impression that sharing some personal stories about Band members, mostly my friendship with Rick, would be a nice thing to do. What I got in return was alot of nasty, name-calling e-mails, making completely wrong presumptions. So I stopped sharing. I think it's a shame when people presume without ever really knowing the facts.

Thanks for listening. Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 15:55:15 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: BEG's Presumptions

Boy this is like a soap opera. Since you posted it openly I will respond. I know some people get angry with those of us, like Paul Godfrey and myself who have known the Band for a long time even mentioning the fact we go back a long ways. First answer to your comment. Nothing painful at all. Don't know where that came from. My comment about the "star" thing is very easy for me personally. Because I have known all original 5 members for many years, Levon is the ONLY one that still treats me as a friend.....keeps in touch and whether I work in the media or dig ditches it doesn't matter to him. It's also nice to report that because of Maud, I am now getting closer to Garth who I have the greatest admiration for. You might find this hard to believe BEG; but because of Robbie's mom he and I were relatively close in the 70's & 80's. Therefore don't presume anything.....the well is much deeper than you think.

However now I just try and get through the day and realize your just lucky in life to have anyone else other than your immediate family in your corner.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 15:12:34 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: BEG - bad translation

"loyal"...i mean "honest + clever"....sorry


Entered at Tue Feb 25 14:43:25 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: Recent GB threads

BEG: ....(last minute)...I like being useful ...and anonymous.... you are enough loyal to understand...i only wish my link is worthy

Names - The use of initials rather than entire names - Often people having several names use initials for Abreviation. Some recent Anti-American "heroes" names are nowaday given to new-borns. One of them is called "Binladen Usama Saddam Hussein". But people use initials for simplicity.....

Just listenned to "When I paint my masterpiece"...many awful stereotypes...Rubble in Rome streets....Brussels girls eating mussels...oh!

Rollie: IMHO John Cleese IS Monthy Python


Entered at Tue Feb 25 14:40:25 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Invisible Guy: Robbie Robertson Interview

Jesus, Mary and Joseph...try as I might I can't stay away. What is a poor Irish girl to do? How might those of us in the U.S. hear/read your interview?

Please let Robbie Robertson know I am "Laying MANY flowers in the snow" at Rick's grave, and that I know he still loved Robbie deep in his heart...even to the end.

Take care and be well all


Entered at Tue Feb 25 14:24:10 CET 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp190003.sympatico.ca (64.229.1.162)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Invisible Guy / John D...Hope it's not too painful tomorrow...If it helps I can fill in for you and ask him about the real "star"....so just say the word and I'll cut class....;-D

E N: So glad that you're always looking out for me...I'm so glad...I'm glad...I'm glad...I'm glad...:-D


Entered at Tue Feb 25 14:01:42 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: RR

Tomorrow I sit down with RR for the first time in 11 years for an interview. I admit that earlier interviews from the 70's & 80's that I had done.....the Band fan in me got in the way and you end up with what is called in the business, a "sweetheart" interview. Lucky for me I grew up and plan to ask some tougher questions tomorrow along with the planned new Band box etc. Want to ask first hand about many of the truths and or myths that appear in this guestbook over and over again. He has brought back his protégé Dana Glover with him for the 3rd time to Toronto. Dana will be performing during Canada Music Week.

Garth & Maud return here in May. They have just moved into a lovely new home and I wish them much happiness as Garth continues to stimulate the love of music in all of us. Now if we can just get back the greatest drummer around......+ the nicest "star" that doesn't act like one....... this town will be a rockin' as the Hawk would say.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 12:15:20 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: Confidence - Honest Anonymity

BEG: Please note, I broke all my connections with people who contributed to the link below


Entered at Tue Feb 25 11:56:36 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: For Brown Eyed Girl only. I vote, best GBer this week


Entered at Tue Feb 25 11:54:03 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: A webpage where you can hear complete songs (for free)


Entered at Tue Feb 25 11:22:14 CET 2003 from du-tele3-144.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.144)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: The cutting room floor

Dave Hopkins mentions the segment where Robbie starts talking about the concert, stops and says, "You want me to plug that in there?" and answers the question again in a "better" way. Surely that was artifice, deliberately left in (probably written in the first place) to give the impression that ‘nothing had been cut’. The conventions of interviews and documentaries have been so thoroughly explored, lampooned and examined in the intervening 25 years that we know it’s a fake. 25 years ago I’m not so sure it didn’t work.

David P- but when you cut the film, you don’t say, ‘Ah, we can have Robbie and the fly, or we can have Garth’s solo.’ Another two minutes on running time would have been irrelevant, but another 40 or 60 to include everything would have made it too long. Personally, I’m surprised they cut Bobby Charles too, or that Joni got such a longer spot than others on the night (cut back to her only decent performance). Garth’s solo was a bad cut, I agree. I imagine they appied the classic film editing rule. When you find yourself arguing in the cutting room, ‘That bit is far too good to cut’… you should always cut it. Because it would not have ocurred in the mind as a possible cut at all unless it was expendable in terms of the whole. The fact that you think it’s a wonderful moment, and better than the surrounding stuff, might also mean it isn’t gelling with your story. I’ve had that rule explained to me about ten times now. On the other hand, my reaction to Gangs of NY was that the cuts rendered the last 15-20 minutes incomprehensible as narrative. So maybe Scorsese was wrong!

How interesting too to see people still boiling about Robbie’s TLW stage make-up. It quite takes you back to other make-up wearers on stage in that era like Bob Dylan, Lou Reed or David Bowie. I think back to the late 60s when male eye make-up was a brief fad in London. The two people I remember sporting it were vastly more successful with women than those who were outraged and called them names. Twas ever thus, I suspect.

On set-up interviews, there was some stuff in The Guardian today on how the USA failed to get the joke with Ali G. Any reactions?


Entered at Tue Feb 25 10:06:37 CET 2003 from dialup-209.246.97.110.dial1.newyork1.level3.net (209.246.97.110)

Posted by:

Ed Blayzor

Location: New York

Subject: George Harrison info for Bayou Sam & other Beatle fans

Sam: there is George Harrison tribute cd being released today, I can't wait to hear Roger McGuin's version of If I Needed Someone.

A co-worker lent me a Harrison bootleg of demos, of particular interest is George doing It Don't Come Easy a year before Ringo's version.

It's good to see Cupid posting again, I couldn't agree with you more about Norah Jones.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 07:39:20 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-020castocp0198.dialsprint.net (65.178.72.198)

Posted by:

Rollie

Subject: hopefully a laugh from terry jones of monty python fame

By Terry Jones [ex Monty Python] Sunday January 26, 2003 The Observer I'm really excited by George Bush's latest reason for bombing Iraq: he's running out of patience. And so am I! For some time now I've been really pissed off with Mr. Johnson, who lives a couple of doors down the street. Well, him and Mr. Patel, who runs the health food shop. They both give me queer looks, and I'm sure Mr. Johnson is planning something nasty for me, but so far I haven't been able to discover what. I've been round to his place a few times to see what he's up to, but he's got everything well hidden. That's how devious he is. As for Mr. Patel, don't ask me how I know, I just know - from very good sources - that he is, in reality, a Mass Murderer. I have leafleted the street telling them that if we don't act first, he'll pick us off one by one. Some of my neighbours say, if I've got proof, why don't I go to the police? But that's simply ridiculous. The police will say that they need evidence of a crime with which to charge my neighbours. They'll come up with endless red tape and quibbling about the rights and wrongs of a pre-emptive strike and all the while Mr. Johnson will be finalising his plans to do terrible things to me, while Mr. Patel will be secretly murdering people. Since I'm the only one in the street with a decent range of automatic firearms, I reckon it's up to me to keep the peace. But until recently that's been a little difficult. Now, however, George W. Bush has made it clear that all I need to do is run out of patience, and then I can wade in and do whatever I want! That's why I want to blow up Mr. Johnson's garage and kill his wife and children. Strike first! That'll teach him a lesson. Then he'll leave us in peace and stop peering at me in that totally unacceptable way. Mr. Johnson and Mr. Patel are just the tip of the iceberg. There are dozens of other people in the street who I don't like and who - quite frankly - look at me in odd ways. No one will be really safe until I've wiped them all out. My wife says I might be going too far but I tell her I'm simply using the same logic as the President of the United States. That shuts her up. Like Mr. Bush, I've run out of patience, and if that's a good enough reason for the President, it's good enough for me. I'm going to give the whole street two weeks - no, 10 days - to come out in the open and hand over all aliens and interplanetary hijackers, galactic outlaws and interstellar terrorist masterminds, and if they don't hand them over nicely and say 'Thank you', I'm going to bomb the entire street to kingdom come. It's just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing - and, in contrast to what he's intending, my policy will destroy only one street.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 05:55:55 CET 2003 from as3-2-60.hip.berkeley.edu (136.152.194.174)

Posted by:

Dave Hopkins

Location: Berkeley, CA

I always thought it was a mistake by Scorsese to leave in the segment where Robbie starts talking about the concert, stops and says, "You want me to plug that in there?" and answers the question again in a "better" way. Whatever the interviews actually were, they should look somewhat spontaneous and not like the product of calculation, and I think it contributes a bit to the feeling that an image is being manufactured during the post-concert filmmaking process by Robertson and Scorsese. That said, I think the interviews were an important part of the film, especially the scene with Robbie and Levon out in the yard.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 05:25:49 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3612567.sympatico.ca (65.93.192.188)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

....Even with the open collar...Robbie could out lick anyone...with or without make-up...;-D


Entered at Tue Feb 25 04:34:00 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Subject: George Harrison's Birthday

Feb 25th

Happy Birthday George - wherever you are (stuck inside a cloud?)

he would've been 60.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 04:13:32 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: missed oppurtunities

after reading about robbies pain and suffering from a lack of direction, destination and something new, i'm surprised he didn't try disco. he was close especially with the open collar and makeup.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 04:07:02 CET 2003 from dialup-67.25.134.184.dial1.buffalo1.level3.net (67.25.134.184)

Posted by:

G-Man

Ah,,ah,,ah,,,lest us not be forgettin,,Crossing Guard"!!!


Entered at Tue Feb 25 01:57:40 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: Bill and books; Pat Brennan/Dave Alvin

Bill, "Before the Mayflower" is Bennett's best-known book and is an excellent general history of Africans in America beginning with, as the title makes reference, to the first nine Africans who arrived in Jamestown aboard the "Dutch Man 'o War" in 1619, a year earlier than the Pilgrims who landed in the Bee Gee State on the Mayflower 1620. "Black Power USA" looks in more detail at Reconstruction and is not the same as "Before the Mayflower". "The Souls of Black Folk", Dubois' best know book, is different than "Black Reconstruction in America" which concentrates on Reconstruction.

Pat Brennan, the virtuous: Can you share anymore details of your work with Dave Alvin. I just picked up the Derailers' "Full Western Dress" which he produced. Nice.

edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Tue Feb 25 00:58:07 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3612567.sympatico.ca (65.93.192.188)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Robbie Speaks In Bam...Once Again...

BAM: Since "Carny", you've turned down all film roles.

ROBBIE:...I just got so many stupid things. People asked me to do awful stuff. And there were some projects that I almost did, that I worked on, some things that I was producing, I was pursuing them very genuinely for a while. And then at some point I'd think "This doesn't have me captured. I'm not passionate about this. I feel I can take it or leave it." And in acting roles, I knew there were people out there who would do anything for these parts; it would mean a tremendous amount to them, and it didn't to me.

Also, I'm used to initiating what I do. I'm not used to just being called up on the phone and saying "Here, wear this 1940's kinda suit and stand over here and say these lines." It's not a real comfortable thing for me, unless I'm working with somebody that I just believe in and believe in the project and this is a story that I want to contribute to telling...

BAM: Did Martin Scorsese ever try to talk you into doing film things?

ROBBIE: No, he talked me OUT of doing things. That was one of the things, too: I started with Martin Scorsese, so it didn't make it easier when someone else came along and said "Here's the script, I've got this idea and everything." I'd think, "I don't know if this guy's got it." It was great working with Marty, but it did set up something that was hard to live up to.

BAM: So which reason was it exactly that got you out of The Band and off the road - the cycles of boredom or cycles of destruction? Or, from your vantage point, did they become one and the same thing, where one causes the other?

ROBBIE: (Pauses) Yeah...Could be a connection in there, too. I guess rather than saying it's this or that, it's a combination, a culmination of stuff that adds up. Mainly for me, it wasn't creative feeling to me. What we could do together in The Band, on the road especially, I thought, "Well, we've said that, why go back to all these places we've already been many times? If we're gonna go back and do something completely refreshing for us and for the audiences we're playing for, that's one thing." But it didn't seem to me like that's the way it was going. And those things can turn into just a business operation for you, too, and that wasn't exciting to me. I need to learn, I need to absorb. I wasn't learning nothing. It was just another airport to me.

That's another thing: How many rides do you get on this ferris wheel before it blows up and breaks one day? You pull back on your number of rides. You get superstitious about that kind of thing.

....It comes up here and there on this album, with "American Roulette" and "Fallen Angel". In "Fallen Angel," the verse has this idea of "I don't believe it's all for nothing." It's really saying, these martyrs are trying to tell us something, they're trying to pass something on. If we don't learn from this, we're not paying attention very well............


Entered at Tue Feb 25 00:47:42 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: TLW / Garth

Peter: Mr. Severn, in his essay, contends that Garth comes across very well in his interview segments. He points out that unforunately, not only, is Garth limited to speaking only twice in the interview segments, but that his "concert showcase" solo, "Genetic Method / Chest Fever", is the only performance in the film that is cut short. I've always felt that Robertson's "fly" interview segment belonged on the cutting room floor, rather than Garth's extended "Genetic Method" solo. There's your "cutthroat" metaphor at work.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 00:27:26 CET 2003 from du-tele3-135.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.135)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: TLW

TLW: Having seen it umpteen times, as many of us have, the interview segments are something you might skip, but as a movie rather than a concert video, it would be greatly diminished without them. It was the right decision to include them. Both Robbie AND Levon come out of them well, and presumably it’s how Levon got his movie career. Garth wasn’t given enough speaking time at all, Richard was out of it and comes across badly (hardly Scorsese’s fault), but Rick comes across well too, with some poignant moments on his solo album. I don’t think it was a Robbie vehicle, but Robbie had the on screen charisma in the interviews. You often don’t know who your true “star” is until you start to cut something together and as directors see personality shining across the lens, they cut more in that direction. It’s natural.

I think the fly is the central metaphor.


Entered at Tue Feb 25 00:10:01 CET 2003 from px1wh.vc.shawcable.net (24.69.255.202)

Posted by:

Cupid

Subject: Re: Brown Eyed Girl

Give the Lennon statute a hug for me..I can't help thinking however that John would have hated that sort of thing...or at least had a damn good laugh. Is it just me or were you all shocked to see the Grammy's go for talent over sales? Norah Jones' CD is one of those timeless gems that come along altogether too rarely in this day of disposable pop acts. Frankly I was floored when I heard she was up for some awards I've had the CD for some time now and have been raving about it to anybody who'd listen.She's the type of performer who SHOULD win awards but who rarely seems to. I must confess to feeling just a little hint of glee as I watched young Avril Levigne fall flat of her face....You youngsters take note, doing it on record and doing it live are two very different animals so rehearse,rehearse and then rehearse some more.Why?..let's go to the Avril at the Grammy's tape...hehehehehe...The Joe Strummer Tribute was great,maybe the best part of the show. Every year I say I'm not watching the Grammy's becouse it's too much business and not enough music and what music there is is crap...Guess I'll have to not watch next year....Peace Cupid


Entered at Tue Feb 25 00:01:23 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: TLW essay

Bones, in clarification: Mr. Severn's quote that Martin Scorsese felt that, in retrospect, it was "not a good idea", that he did the inteviews, and that he found the other members of The Band to be "very quiet and very formidable" cites p. 74 of "Scorsese on Scorsese" in his footnote. It is Mr. Severn's assertion that "the idea to do interviews" and "that Scorsese do the interviews" were both suggested by Robertson. He does, however, find that the interviews "constitute the most fascinating part of the movie", concluding that "this is where the construction of Robertson's image and the deconstruction of The Band's really occur".

Interestingly, Mr. Severn finds that "cutthroat" (billiards game) from the opening scene of the film "provides its central metaphor".


Entered at Mon Feb 24 23:45:40 CET 2003 from (63.65.190.196)

Posted by:

Knockin' Lost John

I like Norah Jones, but the fact that she got 8 grammies tells you how sparse the REAL talent is out there.....at least on the radio and TV. Of course, we know that true talent still exists


Entered at Mon Feb 24 23:23:14 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

Location: Toronto

Ed: Thanks for the book tips. Both authors are represented in the bibliography, but not the titles you mentioned. Frankly, I suspect that the books listed - "Before the Mayflower" and "Black Folk" may have been retitled to suit late 20th century sensibilities. Whatever, it's funny you should ask about the music of the time, because the paragraph directly after the ones I quoted (the last of which went on to talk very briefly about the South's relegation to breadbasket status) says:

"In all of this turmoil and upheaval, how did black music fare? The appropriate answer is that in response to even this limited degree of freedom it exploded. On one of the great cultural rebirths in all of human history, black music in America grew, expanded, and overflowed into the cultural life of the nation, in wave after wave of sound that continues to this day. In the years immediately following the Civil War, the first musical wave came in the form of the spiritual. During the war, the North met the southern slave face to face and heart to heart for the first time and was thus introduced to the 'plantation melody', as distinct from the debased caricature of the minstrel stage. In the 'Black Belt' of the deep South, they found a people who had been touched only lightly by the world about them. Their appearance was uncouth, their language, in many instances, strange and barely intelligible, but their hearts were human and their singing stirred men with a mighty power.

"In Port Royal, near the sea islands of the Carolinas, Thomas Wentworth Higginson heard them and felt shivers run up and down his back. And it was here, in a school established by the Freedman's Bureau, that Lucy McKim Garrison came to teach and stayed to learn - an experience that resulted, in 1867, in the publication of the first collection of spirituals, under the title "Slave Songs of the United States". Only the words and tunes were printed, without any attempt at harmonization, but the volume remains an important primary source."


Entered at Mon Feb 24 23:00:01 CET 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Posted by:

Bones

Congrats to Band fan Norah Jones for sweeping the Grammys last night. In case people here don't know, Norah does a version of "Bessie Smith" in her live shows, and she credits Robbie and Rick before she sings it. She also told Rolling Stone that The Last Waltz is all she watched on her tour bus last summer.

David Powell: I read "Scorsese on Scorsese" not long ago. Where does he state that the Last Waltz interviews were a mistake (and Robbie's idea)? I believe it was Scorsese who asked, "who are these guys and why are they breaking up?" after seeing the first reels of footage, which led him to the idea that interviews would help "tell the story".


Entered at Mon Feb 24 22:33:29 CET 2003 from cache-hki-6.inet.fi (194.251.240.114)

Posted by:

Kalervo

Location: Finland

Subject: Under the Cuban moon

Aah Habana: I envy you Angelina. HAve a great time there! Say hello to Yusa, Ibrahim, Juan Diaz, Omara Portuando etc. All those wonderful Cuban musicians...You see almost everyone I know wants to go Cuba...


Entered at Mon Feb 24 22:31:49 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: TLW essay

As a follow-up to my previous post -- Mr. Severn's quote regarding the cinematic importance of TLW should have read: "It stands as his [Scorsese's] first exploration of the manner by which image may be manipulated as a means for eliminating risk, a thematic obsession which continues in 'The King of Comedy' (1982), 'The Color of Money' (1986), and 'Casino' (1995)".

Mr. Severn asserts that "The movie's real subject is not The Band as a whole, but Robbie Robertson. The film represents a highly crafted and complex exercise in image-making". He goes on to point out specific instances in the film where Mr. Robertson was able to manipulate the way it was constructed to promote his own image, often at the expense of the other members of the group. Mr. Severn suggests that this manipulation goes beyond Robertson's dominance of the camera in the performance scenes, to "every visual and thematic aspect of 'The Last Waltz'". He particular he points out that the insertion of the interview scenes, almost a year after the concert, was Robertson's idea, and one that Mr. Scorsese later admited in his own book, "Scorsese on Scorsese", was "not a good idea". Mr. Severn asserts that Mr. Scorsese's "inexperience as an interviewer hurts the other band members", while Robertson, in his interview segments, was able to take advantage of his ability to "articulate".

Mr. Severn mentions Ronnie Hawkins' famous quote, after seeing TLW for the first time: "The goddamn movie'd be awright if it only had a few more shots of Robbie". The irony of this statement, as Mr. Severn points out, is that the recently re-leased, expanded DVD version of TLW, with all its bonus features, contains even more "image-making" by Robertson than the film in its original form.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 22:25:35 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: Bill and Reconstruction; Fred gets points

Bill: If you found that passage on Reconstruction interesting you should read Lerone Bennett Jr., "Black Power USA" and, of course, W.E.B. Dubois, "Black Reconstruction in America." I'd bet they are included in the bibliography of the book to which you cited. Bennett gives historical accounts, state by state, of the tremendous participation by African Americans in civic life during this ten-year period. There are few other moments in history where a people shackled to the bottom of society rose up so quickly and passionately to participate and contribute at "the top" and points in between. I'm also curious to know about music created during this period, once all the bells had stopped ringing. Some have speculated on what the world would have looked like if the Confederacy had won the civil war. A better question is what America would have looked like if Reconstruction had not been overthrown. Right, Trent Lott?

Fred: you handle distribution for the CD in Asia and help yourself out of RR's end.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 21:43:09 CET 2003 from du-tele3-135.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.135)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Names

Checked today – the DVD-Audio of Big Pink is not a UK release (yet).

Fred- I did get compeletely used to Viney-san in Japan (because they never dropped the”san”), and it was explained to me on a long journey that Japanese people felt more comfortable with family names, and that using first names had the opposite of the intended effect- it didn’t relax them at all (this was nearly 25 years ago! Has it changed?) Anyway, the translation of “Gaijin” was often discussed. One friend insisted that the Kanji characters meant “Hairy barbarian” but I always suspected that was over-interpretation / over-translation. For example, in English the words alien, foreigner, foreign visitor, barbarian are all translations of the same concept. On the stupid remark that you fielded, I know from experience that the Japanese people are the most courteous and pleasant hosts you could wish for. Remarks like “Gaijin san’ (Mr Foreigner) would not sound odd to their ears because ‘san’ added the necessary politeness. Is the answer to say, no, ‘Gaijin-sensei’?

Lifeboy’s dialogue reminds of one of my favourite British seaside postcards. A policeman is stopping a very dodgy looking character’s car.

PC: Where are you going?
Man: Southall.
PC: And what make is your vehicle?
Man: Vauxhall.
PC: And what is your name?
Man: Nuttall.
PC: And what’s in the boot? (=trunk)
Man: Absoloutely nothing, officer.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 21:21:39 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: The Last Waltz: A Cinematic Viewpoint

The Winter 2002-03 edition of "Film Quarterly" magazine (Vol. 56 No. 2) contains an essay written by Stephen E. Severn entitled "Robbie Robertson's Big Break / A Reevaluation of Martin Scorsese's 'The Last Waltz' ". As Mr. Severn explains, the film merits a critical reevalution from a cinematic standpoint "because no thorough explication of its thematic construction has yet appeared". He contends that TLW has been unfairly neglected by film critics over the years and discussed only in passing. It is his assertion that TLW is important in the study of Mr. Scorsese's work because it "marks a crucial turning point for Scorsese and is the first installment in a tetralogy of films that dominate his mid-period of work". For Mr. Severn, TLW "stands as his first exploration of the manner by which image may be manipulated as a means for elimination risk, a thematic obsession which continues in 'The King of Comedy' (1982), 'The Color of Money' (1986), and 'Casino' (1995).

While Mr. Severn praises TLW for its cinematic "clarity", which set the bar for way music documentaries would later be filmed, he believes that " as a film that moves beyond the music to engage with ideas about image-making (both that of the lead singer [sic], Robbie Robertson, and, more indirectly, that of the filmmaker himself), it has resonance beyond its own history".


Entered at Mon Feb 24 20:57:36 CET 2003 from (129.237.250.26)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: John Cass

Hello...there was a portion of drama in your own post, wouldn't you say? I thought the emotion was almost Oscar worthy!

but seriously...

in some ways what you're implying is that there is one, or maybe two or three, good and acceptable ways to contribute to the GB, and things that fall outside those limits ought to be relegated to some other space.

another way of looking at it is that the GB reflects where certain Band fans are at this time in their lives...and that the content will change as times and situations change.

I post what you define as political posts. Sometimes, but not all the time--I have posted "purely" music based commentary also, quite often. I wish I had personal experience anecdotes involving Band members to share, but I don't. And I can't afford concerts these days. Not asking for pity, just saying that not everyone can conform to the expectations you listed--but we have every right to be heard.

I don't separate my values from my love for the Band and that results in some political posts. As I've said here before I admired Rick Danko's support of Greenpeace and his statements in songs like "People of Conscience." In fact I think of that song several times a day, these days.

When the Band put that picture of themselves with their families in Big Pink and called it "Next of Kin," that was a political statement. And a damn good one.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think that the people you call drama kings and queens and politicians prevent the things that you do like from being expressed at all.

I've met damn good people on this GB in the past few months and exchanges e-mails and music with them...I think things are good in the neighborhood, but respect your view that it's not...but I don't intend to move anywhere else...


Entered at Mon Feb 24 19:29:58 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

John Cass = You're not wrong my friend - but what'cha gotta do is offer up something different. The threads only go where we take them. WS Walcott, are ya listening?


Entered at Mon Feb 24 19:17:23 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

Thanks Butch!!! Maybe it's about time to do some bigger barns, huh? Btw, that Levon drumming video has been getting so much use here lately that my little #2 beat the crap out of his plastic set... had to go out and get one of those "First Act" kits... and pump up the volume... Mom's not real happy though... he he hee...

Did I read that right, Lanois has a new CD coming out in April?... Cool.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 19:14:03 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

A trip to the public library turned up an interesting book, "Black Music in America" by John Rublowsky (1971). Unlike most books with titles like that, only the last 20 pages are about the 20th century. With recent discussions of TNDDODD and the US Civil War in mind, the following paragraphs struck me as revelatory:

"For a time, in the flush of victory and idealism that followed the war, America even tried democracy. Blacks were permitted to vote in the elections of 1867 and 1868, and the results were astonishing. An ex-slave, and a woman at that, Blanche Delso Bruce, was elected senator in Mississippi. Pinckney Benton Stewart Pinchback was governor of Louisiana. In South Carolina, a black was elected lieutenant governor. In Florida, the secretary of state was an ex-slave, and a black judge sat on the bench of the state Supreme Court in North Carolina. Blacks were sheriffs, superintendents of education, state treasurers, mayors, and post office officials. A total of seven blacks entered Congress as duly elected representatives.

"Blacks and whites went to school together, ate in restaurants together, worked together, rode street cars together, and voted together. An interracial board governed the University of South Carolina, where a black professor, Richard T. Greener, taught white and black students metaphysics and logic.

"The amazing thing abourt this period was the almost complete absence of any feeling of vindictiveness on the part of the blacks. They appeared to have been more than willing to let bygones be bygones. In the state legislatures, black politicians passed the most progressive legislation that America had ever known. Schools, hospitals, civil rights guarantees were all championed by ex-slaves for the benefit of all citizens - black and white.

"All of these things, and more, took place in America during the ten years of Reconstruction (1867-1877). It seemed for a time that Ameria was really going to be America, after all. W.E.B. Du Bois called this period the 'mystic years'. Unfortunately, there were not destined to last. ..."


Entered at Mon Feb 24 18:35:34 CET 2003 from syr-66-67-68-0.twcny.rr.com (66.67.68.0)

Posted by:

Bashful Bill

Subject: What's New

Re the photo's in What's New:that concert was the last time I ever saw Richard, and, I believe, the first time I saw Jim Weider. I have no idea if the photo of Richard is from that show, but I don't think the one of Rick is, and I'm positive that the one of Levon is not from that show.The show was at night, Levon didn't wear a hat, and his hair was rather long and combed straight back. I also don't think he played his mandolin thatnight, though I have a tape of that show and will have to check. So if anyone wants to buy photo's from that site, you may want to verify accuracy.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 18:20:47 CET 2003 from 24-197-165-58.charterga.net (24.197.165.58)

Posted by:

Don Pugatch

Location: Roswell, Ga

Subject: Susan Tedeschi

Well, we did get in Sat night, placed was packed, could not stop looking at the exit signs that blazed in Red. Fortunatley, this was not to used till we left after the concert. Having seen Susan twice prior, I was trully impressed with her musical growth, and her band , outstanding. Special guest who sat in , Rico, on drums is the player from her husband's band, Derek Trucks. Susan commented about her chances of winning a grammy, none, as she snickered, hey, there fixed anyway,but did attend. Blues to move by, her guitar and voice wailed, even did a set with just the keyboard player, ala a Joni Mitchel set. After seeing both Bela and then Susan, I have fulfilled my live music need for the moment. Got to see who is coming, do know that Prof. Louie is 3/23 but there got to be more prior. Does the Lion King count?


Entered at Mon Feb 24 18:14:17 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

butch

Subject: Bodles

well, its sat night,,,,& Bodles Opera House is sold out !!!!!!!!! plus a waiting list,,, even the sheriff waited too long,,,,& with the rhode island tragedy,, they were taking no overcrowding chances,,,

we were all there early & chris had a new song to try out,,,

the place was rockin from the second they took the stage,,, old friends Mike Lyons & Bill the firefighter & his family,, big joe,, marlene & mary,,,,all friends,,,as george video'd the show,,, we both/all realised it was a special night,,,

jimmy vivino's piano playing was stellar & he sang so great so strong,, he adds background to Chris, perfectly,,,

the crowd cheered every paradiddle (LOL )Levon hit, every fill,, it was a LEVON CROWD !!!!!

the guitars were on fire, truly,, patty played like a man possessed,,,just right on the note,,,

90 minutes later they staggered off stage,, & were called back for TWO more,,,

as usual, after the show,, Levon did a "meet & greet" he signed everything ( except TLW crap )

if all they had was TLW stuff,,,, i pulled out a Levon & the BB's promo shot & let them get that signed,, everyone goes home happy,,,,( except the drunk who tried to put a lip lock on the boss,,, then she fell down getting into her limo,,,kinda funny,,,

so, come on out & join the show next time,,,

Lars,, start early,, LOL we need you there,,,

the blues always makes ya feel better,,,always,,,


Entered at Mon Feb 24 18:00:52 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

butch ( the real one )

Subject: gigs

so Levon walked into the dressing room @ the bottom line& said to all of us,, "boys,,, lets give em a show to remember,,, & lets have some fun ",, & fun they had,,,

with old friend Bill Perry opening,,, The Barn Burners w/ Jimmy Vivino tore up the BL,,, 1st show was 1/2 full,,,but the fellas topped off the tank to full,,,,,,

Jimmy V & Pat on their guitars were "insync" all night & when V moved to the piano,,, he & chris were dueling & riffing,,,,,,, Helm was HELM of course,,,,, right in the Groove,,,,,,

even the jaded cats @ the BL, stopped & listened,,,

bill's bass player took sarli's spot for the 1st 1/2 & really grooved with Levon ,,,,didnt miss a cue,,,

due to the incredible cheapness of alan pepper, the BL's owner,, we went down Mercer for pizza,,,,between sets,,,MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM,, NY Pizza,,,,,

then the 2nd set,,, jimmy played with bill's boys,, & when we took over ( 2nd show was more crowded,,,,) the barn was burnin,,, Levon drove that band like a wagonmaster layin the lash,,,, they had to keep up with the old man,,,

the 2nd set had some swing to it,, too,, jimmy rodgers,,,Lil Walter, Lazy Lester,cats like that,,, Muddy of course & chris & pat's originals all had the wild crowd hootin & hollerin,,, on they feet,, then in the seat,,,they were ROCKIN,,,,,,,,,,

NY is good to us,,, even if some of the audience for the 2nd set were no class dreck,,,

Levon & the fellas played for everyone else,, & yes they all had fun,,,,


Entered at Mon Feb 24 17:55:41 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.38)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Norah Jones

I am happy to see the acknowledgement of the sweet simplicity of Norah Jones' music. While there has always been plenty of music to incite there never seems enough to soothe.

PEACE


Entered at Mon Feb 24 17:34:32 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

John Cass: Thanks for the very interesting information on The Band i see in your last post


Entered at Mon Feb 24 17:19:23 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Ed Voci: As a "paisan" could I get a cut of the royalties, too? :)


Entered at Mon Feb 24 17:03:22 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny

Subject: Reunions

Paul Simon smiled last night? Are you being sarcastic, Sam (or should I say Mr. Sam or can I call you "Bayou?")? I don't think that he and Artie made eye contact the whole time they sang together. They sounded as great as ever, though, and that is what counts. It was a good way to start the Grammy show, and hard to believe those guys had not performed together for a decade--the same length of time the Everly Brothers spent apart before their big reunion in the 1980s. Of course, those two splits combined don't add up top the number of years that Levon and Robbie have avoided the same stage together. Maybe that one is hopeless after all...


Entered at Mon Feb 24 17:02:41 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: Mr Woddy Allen, what is your actual opinion about the Levon-Robbie relation?


Entered at Mon Feb 24 17:01:44 CET 2003 from citrix1.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.5)

Posted by:

John Cass

Location: VT

Subject: the GB

There used to be a time when you could read this GB and see interesting information on The Band, concert information, stories of people's experences with various members of The Band.... hear about cool music from other acts...etc...

Now this place is so lame... I DON'T KNOW WHAT ARE WORSE THE POLITICAL POST OR THE ONES WHEN PEOPLE ACT LIKE THIS GB IS A GOD DAMN SOAP OPERA... I SWEAR THERE ARE A BUNCH OF DRAMA KINGS AND QUEENS IN THIS PLACE....

I can't be the only one thinking this can I????

when and how did this place become so lame?????

does anybody else just laugh at some of this stuff????

there should be two GB's one for the Drama and one for the music.... who's with me????


Entered at Mon Feb 24 16:59:03 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

Invisible Guy

That would be Wednesday at 11:00 so BEG can cut school:-)


Entered at Mon Feb 24 16:57:20 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

Invisible Guy

Subject: Robbie Robertson / Daniel Lanois

Mr. Robertson will be holding a Press Conference here in Toronto at 11:00 a.m. as part of the National Aboriginal Achievement Foundation. He is getting an award this year and appearing as a guest speaker at Canadian Music Week. His old friend Danny Lanois appears at a function at the El Mocombo. He also is here for Canadian Music Week. His new album will be out in April.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 16:52:41 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Nice post there by the Vinster :-)

Also nice to see Simon and Gafunkel (or Paul and Art)together last night. I don't think I've seen Paul Simon smile so much.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 16:48:02 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois where all corn and soy bean harvests are king

Subject: Quick notes during a busy time

BEG: If you see RR tell him I still have the lyrics that Levon liked a lot, but for which he failed to write the music and can no longer sing. See if he wants to put music to the lyrics and we'll go 50-50 on everything (provided the songwriters' credit is published by last name in reverse alphabetical order). Wouldn't this be nice slam at LH? [Folks, the music business is rotten, ain't it?] BEG, have a great time in Cuba, ask any musician there to play Pablo Milanes' "Yolanda", the most beautiful song ever written, and have a shot of rum for me.

Brien Sz: No, no, no on your being a racist. Do I think Thurmond, Reagan, KKK, etc where racists? You bet. Their agenda was/is to caste or over-caste the isse of race/slavery etc. in terms of States Rights. The Mississippi Sovereignty Commission is the most stunning example of this. Its sole purpose was to resist the civil rights movement it couched itself in States Rights. They want(ed) to get their way on race/slavery by winning people to the States Rights issue and also to use it as more legitiamte progaganda tool. Many people were drawn to support/fight for the Confederacy on that issue, no doubt. Demonizing the North/Lincoln was an effective tool and we are currently reminded how effective demonizing can be in motivating people to go to war. In the end the right the Southern states wanted to preserve and expand upon was slavery as an economic system.

Lars: I love you, too, but not so fast on the-off-GB-tactic you little trickster. Please grace us with a response to my comments on States' Rights made to Brien Sz. If you do, I'll cut you in on the royalties from my and RR's upcoming song--from RR's end, of course [Folks, this politics/history stuff is a rotten business, ain't it?].

edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Mon Feb 24 16:21:34 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Mark: as much you as you are right about the atrocities committed during both the Rape of Nanking and the Death March of Bataan ..however, in my post, the situation I was referring to is a tad bit different to say the least. For one, World War II ended in 1945 (although Nanking happened several years prior to Pearl Harbor...I'm surprised you didn't mention that!) , and the people I mentioned in my post weren't around back then. Furthermore they aren't (or should I say weren't) members of the Japanese Imperial Army. Painting all Japanese as, what's the term you used, ah yes "bastards" is rather unfortunate as you have just insulted my wife and my daughter. You can insult me, but insulting (indirectly or even unintentionally) either my wife or my daughter, well that's another story. Instead of hurling some derogatory remark your way (oh, I don't know, hmm, let's say about your intelligence or lack thereof ), I'll offer you this bit of advice, which I'm sure you may have heard before....think carefully before you post.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 15:39:33 CET 2003 from (130.94.106.228)

Posted by:

Mark

You ought be happy with GAIJIN-san. Those bastids were not nearly so polite at Nanking or Bataan!


Entered at Mon Feb 24 14:22:55 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: No, I am not Roz

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but I feel I need to clear this up.

No, I am not Roz, I don't remember if I have read any posts from her actually... I guess you could say I am a ghost from the past...No, that is not right either as I am still in the land of the living...Better to say I am a remnant of the past...It was LEVON (note that although you can guess I am frustrated with him, I never used his last name) himself who said in his book "This Wheel's on Fire" that in the beginning he and Robbie roomed together and became like "brothers"...although he didn't specifically say it I guess that started to die after he saw the writing credits on the "Brown" album and they basically stopped collaberating...by the way, does that mean all the songs after that were purely Robbie's?...

But I digress...I would rather people reflect on what I said rather than speculate on who I am...I am nobody important..

Take care all and be well


Entered at Mon Feb 24 13:35:22 CET 2003 from mcha-aj117.taconic.net (205.231.150.117)

Posted by:

Lil

Since I seem to have inadvertantly started this last-name thread, I wanted to mention that it's funny how calling certain people by their last name actually makes it worthy of discussion, and others aren't given a second thought. The fact that I wrote "Robertson" started a discussion here. If I had've been saying something about "Dylan", it would've gone by completely unnoticed. Go figure.

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 13:09:47 CET 2003 from host213-123-113-7.in-addr.btopenworld.com (213.123.113.7)

Posted by:

Lifeboy

Subject: p.s. names etc

I think I need to add the fact that when using last names in a friendly kind of way you need to be pretty familiar with the person, so the greeting to Roger and Peter that I used as an example would only be used if we were old pals and that kind of rapport existed between us, so for now I would just use their first names which is just as friendly. If someone I didn't know very well called me "Wise" or "Wisey"(You're all gonna call me that now!)they would get some sharp words back from me.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 12:04:45 CET 2003 from host213-123-113-7.in-addr.btopenworld.com (213.123.113.7)

Posted by:

Lifeboy

Subject: names

Plenty of my mates are called by their last name, Coleman, Miller,Jonesey etc and many have daft nicknames,Footsie,Mr Wendal,Rufus,Damage,Wastey,Pirate Bob,Howard The Duck. Coleman was taken in for questioning by the police one night because he fitted the description of a mugger,(he was innocent)the conversation went something like this.

Copper: "Where were you last Saturday night at 10pm?"

Coleman: "I was in The Swan pub"

Copper: Who were you with?"

Coleman: "Stinky,Wastey and Damage"

Coleman bless him didn't actually know their real names and had always known them by their nicknames.

I went to a state comprehensive school and the teachers used our first names when addressing us(most of them were rather liberal left wingish hippies) but on occasion would use a last name, my brother was often addressed as "Wise" on account of me having been there before him and being rather notorious as a lazy, class disrupting nuisance, as soon as they heard his last name he was screwed, sorry Bruv! Now and again a teacher from the old system would come along and use last names, the whole class would completely ignore them untill they caught on that they'd better have some bloody manners, Right on!

Using last names can be both derogatory and affectionate, I might bump into Roger in the pub say to Roger "Alright Woodsey, Viney will be comin' down in a bit" and that is meant in a friendly way, when Serge refers to Peter as "Viney" I think we know why! :)


Entered at Mon Feb 24 11:27:34 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

E N

I'm not so clever, but 2 posts made me crying (oh! yes) during my career in GB. One from Roz, the second from Fallen Angel. Is SHE the same person ?


Entered at Mon Feb 24 11:23:14 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Peter V: re. getting called by one's last name, at least it isn't as bad as being called "GAIJIN san" (Gaijin being the term for foreigner in Japanese) by people you work with (who should know your name)!!


Entered at Mon Feb 24 11:09:19 CET 2003 from du-tele3-240.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.240)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: A rose by any other name

On The Band, Garth seems to use last names for people outside The Band mainly in conversation / interviews, which kind of suits him and sounds right. Robbie in interviews / videos only uses first names. Unquestionably Levon’s use of “Robertson” is a distancing tactic, and meant to come across as impersonal and unfriendly, which it does. I recall seeing references to ‘Danko’ in a friendly way (but it’s always Richard and Garth). This could because Danko is an unusual name, which is also short and quite pleasing in sound, so that it was and is used affectionately. Maybe we tend to go for the distinctive name. Therefore it’s always “Levon” and “Garth”. “Robbie” covers both bases as a shortened family name / diminuitive of Robert so functions more as a nickname. “Richard” was always Richard, so maybe Danko was a useful distinguishing name? I know on one film shoot I did we has three Roberts who all preferred to be known as “Rob” and to save confusion, the names Bob, Rob and Robbie were selected and used.

Wacker, Roger & Lifeboy- come in on this one!

First names/ last names. In Britain when I was a kid, teachers at boys schools addressed you by your family name in military style (Be quiet, Smith or I’ll smack you round the ear again) , but girls were addressed by first names, (Please don’t talk, Anna or I’ll give you extra homework). We carried that over into outside school but only with people we were at achool with. So at “youth club” I’d talk about Andy and Ken (who went to different schools to me) but also about Smith and Jones from my class. This persisted at my local boys school until 1989- when my son went in that year they announced that this was the first year where they were going to use first names. Some older teachers found it impossible to adapt. At college, it was first names only and when I started work. There were a few people who I worked with who did use family names, but they were either older strict discipline ex-military types, or people with very posh public school accents. i.e. addressing someone as Smith, or talking about someone as ‘Smith’ tended to define you as an arsehole. I’ve never heard anyone except extreme public (=private in the UK) school types who as adults wore school ties, school scarves, school cufflinks and no doubt school underpants ever refer to a female by just her family name in the UK, but I have heard it in the US.

I was quite shocked when I first started corresponding on this GB to find myself referred to as ‘Viney’ (which would be bloody rude in England) but as this was often in reference to articles, I saw it as the normal article reference, ‘op cit Viney, Cholmondeley, Featherstonehaugh; Journal of Applied Band Metaphysics Vol XVIII No III, Feb 1984’. Generally, the British and Australians are far quicker to use first names in conversation, while I find Americans will offer a “Mr” until invited to use first names, or will say “Call me Homer” as an invitation to use first names. I like the politeness that (e,g.) David P always uses of referring to people discussed as Mr - for me you either say Mr Smith or John, but not "Smith". I’ve noted that new doctors, lawyers, bank managers in the UK will immediately address me as ‘Peter’ without being invited to do so. We discussed this before, and many assumed erroneously that Americans are less formal than the British, while in fact they’re more formal. It might have been the other way round 100 years ago.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 07:35:38 CET 2003 from ip68-7-9-220.sd.sd.cox.net (68.7.9.220)

Posted by:

Cheryl

Location: San Diego

Do you plan on coming to San Diego anytime? We would love to have you. God bless.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 05:36:54 CET 2003 from ip68-100-250-147.nv.nv.cox.net (68.100.250.147)

Posted by:

Art Wray

Location: Alexandria VA
Web: My link

Subject: Big Fan!

The page looks great! I'm glad I was able to find the site. I'l be back!


Entered at Mon Feb 24 05:18:46 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Pat Brennan: I like the point you made about the reasons people march off to war (especially those who are conscripted) and the reasons wars are fought. I think that can be applied to any country and any conflict. I remember when, as a smart-aleck teenager, I asked my father why he fought on the side of Germans during WW II rather than fighting with the Italian Army which was fighting with the Allies or joining the partisans. His reply: "I didn't have much of a choice. I turned 18, I was told to go fight for my country. If I refused they (meaning the Italian authorities of the Republic of Salo') would have executed my parents, brother and sister". So he spent the folloing two years blowing up bridges in central Italy trying to halt the Allied advance.

Compare this with my dad's oldest brother who volunteered for military service in the mid-1930s hoping to make a career out of it (my aunt said he liked a few of the things that big pinhead Mussolini was saying). Unfortunately he died during the first weeks of the war.

by the way I liked that Dave Alvin quote, too!


Entered at Mon Feb 24 04:35:21 CET 2003 from dialup-166.90.86.86.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.86.86)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Brien, its very nice of you to think that and I am humbled. What I think a lot of people forget is that the reasons people join armies and march off to war are usually much different than the reasons the wars are fought. You wouldn't quiz a French private from Napoleon's army to find out why Napoleon invaded Russia. In America's case, it gets a bit personal (to say the least) because people don't want to hear that Great-great grandfather Amos fought to defend slavery because he was in the Army of Northern Virginia. Truth is, he probably didn't, although that army defended the political interests of Virginia and the Confederacy, both of which seceeded--by their own words, not mine--to defend the economic system built on slavery. Maybe I'm dumb, but I make that differentiation easily. I'm fascinated by people like Virgil Caine. Ask Lars. Although we disagree on some of these political issues, he can tell you I'm scrupulously fair, and, oddly enough, most of my work in the area has centered on Confederate subjects.

As I mentioned earlier, this week I did a session with Dave Alvin from the Blasters. After one particular take, I said to him that it sounded like a Basement Tapes tune. He got a big smile and said, "And that's a GOOD thing."


Entered at Mon Feb 24 03:50:50 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Angel = C'mon, I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't post anything. Post more. Just lighten up. "At all costs, let's laugh".-Levon Helm.

There was a nice article on the father of rock n roll today in the New York Times - Chuck Berry.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 03:49:01 CET 2003 from hvc-24-161-21-18.hvc.rr.com (24.161.21.18)

Posted by:

Lars

Location: Pine Bush, NY

Subject: Names

BAYOU SAM: I'm not sure, I don't really remember, but before Rick Danko died I think I did refer to him as "Danko." It was after hearing Levon on a local radio station telling the infamous deer road-kill story, where Bobby Charles and Rick Danko were trying to skin and quarter out a deer that was hung up in a tree, the only light being Levon's car headlights. Levon made it sound kind of foolish, but "Danko" used to be a butcher in his youth, and they got it done. The way Levon said "Danko" was sort of affectionate. The few times I've talked with Randy about Rick, he always called him "Ricky." I think most of the fans and friends just called him Rick, Lil would know more about that stuff.

One night a few years back I was sitting at a bar watching Charles Lyonhart play. I guess if you really know him well some people call him "Charlie." Anyway, at break time he came over to the next stool and we talked about our usual topic, The Band. Charles said he had been up to Levon's house and had mentioned Robbie. Levon cut in with "We don't talk much about Robertson around here." My guess is that there wasn't much affection mixed in with that name. Charles knows a lot about a lot of people, but you could tell he was always thinking before he spoke, he's discreet.

Whatever name you call someone, I think a lot has to do with the tone. Calling someone by their last name can sometimes be an endearment (it's strange, but I always called my college sweetheart by her last name). And in the military I didn't know anybody who used first names, only last or maybe nicknames like "Shit For Brains" or "Muthafucka." Endearing stuff like that.

So, coming full circle, if I did call Rick by his last name it was definitely not meant as anything derogatory. He was a good man.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 03:27:31 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: Ah Ha! What else at the moment

Pat: I acquiesce to your, by far, greater grasp of Civil War facts, figures, culture, etc.., Where I'm still growing in my knowledge of that era, I am only trying to relay what it is I feel I have learned from materials I have studied. I'm still learning and you have been a great source of help in offering things for me to read and examine and I thank you!


Entered at Mon Feb 24 02:10:12 CET 2003 from mcha-ai061.taconic.net (205.231.28.61)

Posted by:

Lil

Yikes! I had to re-read my post after reading the ones about calling Robbie "Robertson". Didn't even realize I did that. Sorry if it offended anyone. It wasn't intentional.

Fallen Angel: Thanks for your nice reply. The sentiment in what you say seems pure and from your heart, and although I disagree, I commend you for explaining it so nicely. If a simple gesture such as placing a flower on Rick's grave will bring you some peace.. do it. I was not in any way trying to belittle your reasons. I was just trying to understand them. Thanks again for replying.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 00:47:49 CET 2003 from dialup-63.208.68.146.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.68.146)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

I know I use "Robertson" in a cynical effort to disarm people who think I'm a Robertsonian.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 00:46:43 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Bayou Sam

You are right...I should never have posted anything. The best I can do is heal my own soul and try to get on with things. It just gets so frustrating sometimes...carrying things in your heart for 30 years...

I wish Levon only contenment, as happiness is a fleeting thing at best, and I guess he has lived long enough to chose his own path...I shan't leave anymore messages...I think I knew in my heart it was a lost cause to begin with...


Entered at Mon Feb 24 00:40:14 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Fallen Angel = Roz?????........Lil took the post right out of my mouth. Placing flowers for Rick is a beautiful thing. Don't turn it into more than that. How do we know that Levon had brotherly feeling for Robbie for sixteen years? I think the brotherly thing has some merit around the Big Pink era, but it's taken on an overblown life of it's own since then. Levon seems fine thank you very much. he dosen't need us fans to tell him to love Robbie again. I'm afraid it's out of our hands (never was in our hands) -let's just enjoy the music.

Ray = great post. I've always noticed the fact that some people call him Robertson as opposed to Robbie. I figure it's a dead giveaway to a dis-taste towards Robbie. I remember a ways back when someone posted a reference to "Danko" and it torked off a couple of folks. Anyone else remember that?

Pat = thanks - I would have thought it was Richard playing piano on "Thinkin' Out Loud". Also - I've jumped between subjects before, and the Civil War is something that's fine, and bound to come up around a Band discussion. I was just tiring of seeing it beaten to death and rahter than just bitch about it and run, I tried to throw out a few possible threads and see if one took off.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 00:26:46 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny
Web: My link

Subject: Arif Mardin and Chuck Berry Articles

That Chuck Berry article in today's "New York Times" was a good one. It was interesting to hear that both Robbie Robertson AND Bob Dylan bailed out of the concert and tribute film, "Hail, Hail Rock'n'Roll." I think that Robbie might have added something to the proceedings, but I think Bob might have overshadowed Chuck at the time the film was made.

Pat Brennan mentioned the legendary producer Arif Mardin recently, and today's "Washington Post" has a fine feature about his long career. Click "my link" for the piece by Richard Harrington.


Entered at Mon Feb 24 00:13:32 CET 2003 from 208.41.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.41.208)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: What's in a (last) name?

The whole business involving references to some Band members by their first names, and to Robbie Robertson by his last has always struck me as a little bit...

...weird...

I'm sometimes reminded of how, when I was in junior high school, my male peers and I would try to act tough by referring to each other by last names, military style. It could be quite a putdown, given the context and tone.

ah well, not to make a big deal or anything, I just hope no one ever gets hold of The Last Waltz and overdubs Ronnie Hawkins rebel yelling, "C'mon, Robertson, let's take a little walk!" or Neil Young drawling, "They got it now, Robertson."


Entered at Sun Feb 23 23:08:43 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Lil

Lil, I am doing this for Rick...I miss him dearly...but the past is haunting me...I know the spoke in the wheel of reconciliation lies at Levon's door...but if he does "win" and get the money he thinks is coming to him...has he really "won"?...will he forgive Robbie, whom he loved like a brother for 16 years, and make a new beginning?...isn't "family" more important than money?...

Everyone makes mistakes in their lives...if The Band had continued to make music, as Levon says was the most important thing, would Rick have worked himself to death?...Levon said he wished they could have made 20 more albums, well why didn't they?...who refused to go back to the studio and record?...

Rick remained a "sweet man" in every sense of the word right to the end, in spite of all the sh*t he went through...and I know it is not "coincidence" that I am feeling sick to my very soul right now, given my past history...I just want BOTH Robbie and Levon to think of Rick and who he was and what he was...

Songs, albums and books have been dedicated to the memory of both Rick and Richard...how much more fitting to dedicate some of the valuable time one has left to bury the anger and and regain something that is so much more precious than money...

I guess the "pot is calling the kettle black"...I should bury my anger as well...and I will try to do it "laying flowers in the snow"...

thank you for the hug and I send a thousand back to you...be well and take care


Entered at Sun Feb 23 22:59:28 CET 2003 from du-tele3-165.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.165)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Triple link …

TNTDODD is about the Civil War, and in the prelude to the Civil War, Harriet Beecher Stowe’s “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” was an extremely important book. Tonight, glancing through a book of names, I was interested to see that the name Evangeline is thought to have been invented by Longfellow for his poem in 1847 ( a poem which relates to both Acadian Driftwood and Evangeline). Well, only seven years after Longfellow had allegedly invented the name, Stowe used it for the character of Evangeline St. Claire, who was cared for by Uncle Tom in the book.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 22:45:50 CET 2003 from mcha-ag058.taconic.net (205.231.148.249)

Posted by:

Lil

Fallen Angel: With all due respect, if you're going to lay flowers in the snow on Rick's grave, please do it for the right reason. For Rick. I'm not sure why you keep insisting you're doing it for Levon. When Rick left this earth, he had nothing but love for Levon, and Levon had the same for him. Life is short and then we die, some sooner than they should. There's no lesson to be learned there. It's just a fact. A flower on Rick's grave has nothing to do with Robertson or Levon.. or anyone else. Either do it for Rick. or don't do it at all.

Have a good night everyone. Hug Jan.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 22:26:56 CET 2003 from prahac-3-63.dialup.vol.cz (212.20.104.231)

Posted by:

Jaroslav Perkl

Location: Prague
Web: My link

Subject: Cool site

GREAT! Really great I was looking for a site like this for a very long time. Go on!


Entered at Sun Feb 23 22:24:57 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Brown Eyed Girl

If you do see Robbie....tell him we are laying flowers in the snow...on Rick's grave...and maybe...just maybe...the message will get through that stubborn skull of Levon's, in the hope that all this anger can be buried before someone else IS!


Entered at Sun Feb 23 21:43:20 CET 2003 from dialin-190-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.1.190)

Posted by:

Bill S

Location: Cold Sping,N.Y.

Subject: Barn Burner Show

Last night The Barn Burners put on a GREAT SHOW at Bodles Opera House in Chester,N.Y. The days of waiting to get your tickets to a B.B. show are long gone! Even Butch couldn't help you last night. There simple was no more room in the house. They played to a SOLD OUT crowd with a waiting list long enough to do at least another show. As for the show Pat O'Shea was at one end of the stage with Jimmy Vivino on the other end playing guitar and keyboards, Chris O'Leary in the middle with Jeff Sarli by his side, Levon playing in the rear with a smile on his face. It was outrageous! All of the B.B. shows are great but last nights show seemed to be the SHOW OF SHOWS. I'll leave the technical stuff up to somebody better able than me to describe. All I know is that they left the crowd in awe of what they just witnessed. After the show everybody just hung out nobody was leaving still amazed of what they saw. Levon was kind enough to sign autographs. Butch thanks again for the music.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 21:38:41 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: Yazooman - Ashima - My Apologies

Sorry Yazooman, even English sources make the same confusion (see the link, with a reference to Encarta Encyclopaedia). I believe you're right, only Ahimsa is correct, from the Jainist Religion. My Apologies


Entered at Sun Feb 23 20:13:58 CET 2003 from ac937d17.ipt.aol.com (172.147.125.23)

Posted by:

Gordon

Location: Isle of Man. U.K.

Hello folks Could any one tell me how to get in touch with the 'Barnburners', as my wife and I are coming over to the States for the first time later in the year, for a very special occasion, and would love to hear them play, and perhaps I (as a musician myself) could maybe stand in on a number with Levon and the band, which would make this special time for her so memorable. I know that this is a bit of a shot in the dark, but if anyone can help, then I'd be very grateful. Thanks Gordon.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 20:08:31 CET 2003 from ti121210a080-0959.bb.online.no (80.212.3.191)

Posted by:

Sofus

VH1.com has a list of "the 100 greatest rock'n'roll albums". The list doesn't include one album by the Band, perhaps the greatest "album rock"-group ever, and I couldn't find any Grateful Dead there either. It's strange when you think of that perhaps 1/4 of the artists on that list are/were not rock artists. Perhaps they were too good for the list :-)


Entered at Sun Feb 23 20:01:35 CET 2003 from du-tele3-194.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.194)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Civil wars

Why the Civil War, asks Sam. TNTDODD is the song on their best album that touched the most chords (or even cords if we’re onto chopping wood again), when it came out, plus the Civil War is intrinsically interesting. ‘King Harvest’ is equally rich-pickings for its relationship to American history (labour relations, IWW, changes in agriculture, the dust bowl possibly, crooked unions) and literature / film (most obviously but not only the Grapes of Wrath, a title that always makes me smile because it was my father’s pet term for haemmorhoids), but there’s less room for arguing over the actual lyrics because they’re clearer – we’ve done KH before though less often than TNTDODD. But if you want to discuss the implication of songs, I feel that the topic: “Redemption: Discuss the impossibility of” (The Weight) would lead to difficult theological wrangling, let alone my very good friend E.Rich Val Doonican’s expansion of Ed’s fascinating conspiracy theory. Since it came out TNTDODD has provoked the most discussion.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 19:46:29 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Posted by:

Invisible Guy

Subject: George Jones

God Bless George Jones for what he has done for Johnny Paycheck. That's called stepping up to the plate with friendship.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 19:39:57 CET 2003 from hvc-24-161-21-18.hvc.rr.com (24.161.21.18)

Posted by:

Lars

Location: Middle Ground

Subject: Our Civil War

The Civil War is still being fought today. Just look at this gb. At the risk of being simplistic (or simple) it looks to me like a case of the Northern antagonist trying to force his Southern brother into doing something that the Southern brother felt would impact his life. The dark haired city boy from the North wanted to end an institution, but the blonde, stubborn Southern boy wanted to keep his life the same. But after bitter words were exchanged, each fought for his own way. There was no turning back, they would never be brothers again.

You could say that the war was fought because each had a different dream. The official "cause" might have been looked back at as a difference of opinion as to who should possess the copyrights, but at the time, it was fought because of "different dreams."

As for the OTHER Civil War (just to piss Ed off, and you know I love you, Ed) that was fought over States Rights. States Rights was the Gist (BTW, you can cuss me out through my e-mail, let's give the gb a break)."Be patient", as the caterpillar advised Alice.

As for our "new" war, I wish the caterpillar could sit down for a smoke with Dubya, and maybe teach him some patience. All that money that went to Turkey was originally (before The State of the Union Address) supposed to go to our state governments to pay for schools, health, roads and our infrastructure. The governors got zilch. But Turkey can build up it's ports and infrastructure, and give their people a better way of life. Thanks to America, the best friend money can buy.

I was in Chester last night at "Maggie's in the Alley," having dinner with my wife and watching the BB's on their closed-circuit TV. It's not the same. Only one floor away, but no ticket. Don't let this happen to you, reserve early. The BB's, The JWB, The Crowmatix...like The Band, they too will someday fade away. Enjoy them while you can. Somebody once said "Seize the Carp".....and the more you think about it, it's so true.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 18:55:28 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3612937.sympatico.ca (65.93.194.50)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

Subject: Emily Dickinson, A Rock Star

Why should anyone care about the lyrics?....Dylan, The Clash, Robbie, Joni, Bruuuce, Louuuu, Leonard Cohen....Conclusion...Lyrics can take the music....to even higher places....Check out Link

Kalervooooo: I'm off to Habana, Cuba on a Cultural Tour soon...Since we're going to be meeting artists and musicians....Any chance Ry Cooder will be around then?

True Cuban story...The first time I was in Cuba we were at a Nature Reserve and very close to Santiago de Cuba...When we boarded the plane to come back to Canada...The flight attendant tells us that the plane will not leave.....until the following people acknowledge that they are on this flight.....My friend wasn't sitting with me on the return flight and so when my name was called (three people were signalled out).....Guess who one of them was?????.....Yup.....I was one of them.....My friend thought it was because I requested a vegetarian meal or something....I absolutely panicked.......thinking it was because everywhere we visited I kept asking about Fidel....Fidel....Fidel....I'm just a curious person......ya know...........Well.....to this day.....I have no idea what the concern was (I did ask but wasn't given a reason) but as soon as we raised our hands....We were able to leave....I guess we were undesireables and they wanted to make sure we weren't staying......lol......Anyway, I can't wait to explore Habana more this time.....Hey Cupid.....There's even a John Lennon Park where there is a sculpture of John Lennon in Habana...I'll have to bug them about getting one of......

Ed...If I meet Robbie next week....and I would love to see Daniel Lanois as well.......He's the one who always says that Robbie just needs to play more guitar and leave that other stuff sometimes.......I'm going to tell him that you're bad mouthing him in public again!...But I'll tell him this time it was only because you had too much fire water.....;-D


Entered at Sun Feb 23 18:13:25 CET 2003 from h00104c1150c6.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.30.166.195)

Posted by:

jt

Location: boston

hey carrie where r ya??


Entered at Sun Feb 23 18:12:45 CET 2003 from dialup-63.208.68.146.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.68.146)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Bayou Sam, sorry. For some reason, I'm able to jump between subjects. Try it, its fun. And the direct connection between God&Generals and this forum is the presence of a great Bob new Dylan song that runs over the credits. It might be the best thing about this production.

Thinkin Out Loud has Garth on piano and Richard on drums.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 18:09:37 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Location: A great India's products consumer country
Web: My link

Subject: Yazooman - Ahimsa - Ashima - Known music and Good music

Thanks Yazooman

Perhaps, it depends on the translated document source. I read essentially in French and Dutch.. I discovered Gandhi far before Attenborugh film. btw...Attenborugh is more Indian than British....James Ivory too
Ahimsa = non-violence, Ashima = Girl name, and also a state of mind that means acceptation of a given situation like it comes in the Hindouiste belief (the equivalent of Dasein in Heideger system). This sense is close to what the quote of BEG suggest. Often, the phonic analogy make a confusion between the two words, example the link document where ashima is used for non-violence. The link is in dutch, the 2nd language in GB, soon the 1st

Known music and Good music. Khaled is the most known Rai singer in India, make me sad. He's not the best, that's sure. He performed one song "Harba" (escape) in one Hindi language in duo with Indian girl singer Amar.

It's nice to see you in GB, Yazoo - chat: sorry, no question, One hour to write this simple post. The GB seems good today with Kubrick, Zhivago,...unfortunately, i cant follow all the posts


Entered at Sun Feb 23 18:01:59 CET 2003 from dialup-63.208.68.146.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.68.146)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

I'm not accusing anyone of racism here. And patience is a virtue.

Brien, the 10% argument is a bit misleading. In fact, from 30% to 40% of Southern families owned slaves, the percentages being skewed by the term "ownership" devolving upon the husband. As James McPherson adroitly noted, that means that more Southern families owned slaves then than American families own stocks now. The seceeding states also voiced their displeasure that certain other states banned slavery and refused to comply with their constitutional and federally-protected property rights, as in refusing to return captured runaways and generally ignoring the Fugitive Slave act which demanded the runaways' return. So much for the concept of States Rights!


Entered at Sun Feb 23 17:57:20 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Subject: anything but the civil freakin' war

Does anyone else like the song "Thinkin' Out Loud" like I do? I think it's one of those good ones that most people don't mention. Great Richard vocal.

Who was the best songwriter ever?

What Band songs could you see being covered by other people? I always liked the idea McCartney doing "It Makes No Difference".

Has Garth ever been the sole producer of an album? That would be interesting.

Imagine if Garth had been in The Beatles when they made Sgt. Pepper? I can see him adding interesting stuff to songs like Mr. Kite - but I just don't see him wearing one of those Sgt. Pepper uniforms. Maybe if it was brown.

Ya think Levon should grow a beard again?

which Pizza..........nah, forget it.



Entered at Sun Feb 23 16:46:52 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: Stuff recently talked about

If you're alluding to the point that I'm a racist or am insensitive to the plight of slavery, well then you are certainly mistaken. Please refrain from thinking such things on one mans brief remarks as I am not going to get into a personal ethics debate as to what my makeup is!

Secondly-It's nice to know that we in the prsent are so much more aware of the past than our predecessors. I was not trying to make slavery a second page story in the Civil War. And sorry to say, that States Rights were more than a veiled way of keeping slavery alive. Pat is right about the southern state legislation drawing up official documents basically protecting their rights to be slave owners. At the same time though - Less than 10% of the south were slave owners, albiet a great amount of slave holding going on! And is it coincidense that the richest people owned slaves and therefor being the richest also ahd the most influence in their states? The rich ruled the congress like they do today! They protected their interests first then the interest of others second. I cannot believe everyone who fought on the side of the south were only fighting so "we can keep our darkies." (paraphrasing the movie G&G). Now before this whole thing blows into accusations and assumptions, let me make this clear! There is absolultly no way I'm protecting the southern stand on slavery. I also know that to categorize in such defined terms the reason for the Civil War taking place is also ludicrous. Many factors played parts and like verything else inthis world, the issues of that day were all weaved together as one fabric, with certain patterns standing out more than others. IN the movie God and Generals, I was simply pointing out that the Civil War did not teeter alone on the issue of slavery. I know, God forbid, in this era, to think so, shows insensitivity. I was saying that I thought it commendable to show that other issues were at hand in that war - like it or not - interpret states rights or any other issue from that era the way you may - like it or not.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 15:29:18 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois (owned by Wilco, if The Band owns Vermont and The Stones own California)
Web: My link

Subject: Brien Sz/Pat Brennan and "States Rights", LDO/Billy Bragg (with a slap a RR), The Band that owned Vermont

Pat Brennan wrote:

“Brien, I would recommend a recent book called Apostles of Secession. It consists of the legal documents that the seceeding states drew up to explain the reasons they left the United States....each state describes in no uncertain terms its need to defend the institution of slavery as the reason for seceeding....There is literally no room for interpretation in each states extended briefs. It would seem the attempt to reportray secession in other terms is a vivid example of the use of PC from another era.”

Pat, where do you find your patience? I really need to get some. In the two months or so that I’ve been around the GB you have nobly pointed out to at least two GBers that the Civil War for the Confederate States of America was about SLAVERY. How many times have you had to do this over the past 7 years? Your shining example, itself, has given me some patience, but I need more. I do have something to add because it appears necessary, regrettably. “States Rights” is not just “PC from another era”, but has been “PC”, so to speak, in several eras, including the current one, if film makers and GB contributors matter (and they do). “States Rights” is and has been historically, the euphemism, code word or cover story for racial segregation and white supremacy. Period. It was invoked by the Klu Klux Klan and others who overthrew Reconstruction, the Southern enforcers of Jim Crow, Strom Thurmond’s 1948 Dixiecrats (recently and at least twice praised by Trent Lott, former President of the U.S. Senate), George Wallace/Bull Connor/Sovereignty Commission of Mississippi, etc. who opposed (violently and otherwise) the civil rights movement in the South in the 1950's and 1960's, and by Ronald Reagan in very his first Southern Strategy presidential campaign speech in Greenville, Mississippi where the three voter registration workers (Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner) were murdered by states rights’s terrorists in complicity with Mississippi’s notorious Sovereignty Commission (“Sovereignty” as in “States Rights”) in 1964. So, Brien Sz, what sz ye now?

Long Distance Operator:

Billy Bragg is English and one of the most political rock musicians around. BTW, there is a recent NYTimes article about how concentrated corporate ownership just about guarantees that Billy Braggs protest music and anyone else's will never be heard on radio. See my link, above. Bragg and Wilco issued a CD, "Mermaid Avenue", which set to music unrecorded lyrics of America's greatest folke singer, Woody Guthrie. There is also a DVD about the making of Mermaid Avenue (Mermaid Avenue is a street in New York where Guthrie lived at one time and where he presumably wrote the previously unpublished lyrics). A documentary about Guthrie, "A Vision Shared", was narrated by RR, one of the few things, along with his grossly belated and market-driven support for Leonard Pelletier and Native American rights, that go a little way toward rehabbing RR’s shabby character. (This taunt to the Robertsonians and my testy attitude this morning was caused by Brien Sz and my slight hangover–the hangover was worth it. I was at a birthday party of a neighbor to whom Eddie Vedder, my neighbor’s long time pal, sent a personal video “birthday card”. Very cool. Pat Brennan, as I think of it, were you there, since I would not know you to see you?)

There is this from a book review by Dwight Garner of “Drop City” by T. Coraghessan Boyle in today’s NYTimes:

“In his 1970 memoir, ‘Total Loss Farm: A Year in the Life’' -- the best, and surely the woolliest, book written about that era's communal living and back-to-the-land movements -- the journalist Ray Mungo contrasted Vermont, where he and his radical friends holed up for a year, with what he referred to as ‘that other magnetic pole,' California. ‘Vermont is a place of strong white magick, a place friendly to adventurers of the mind and body,’ Mungo wrote. California, he felt, proved that ''magick'' can also be black. Like so many arguments of that period, Mungo's was nailed down with a musical analogy: ‘Vermont belongs to [T]he Band,’ he wrote, ‘California to the Rolling Stones.’ edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Sun Feb 23 15:19:20 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

John Cass

Location: VT

Subject: Levon & Barnburner's gig

Hey... where are the updates on the sold out Levon gig from this weekend????


Entered at Sun Feb 23 15:01:57 CET 2003 from cache-hki-6.inet.fi (194.251.240.114)

Posted by:

Kalervo

Location: Finland
Web: My link

Subject: Civil war and other things

BEG and Ray Pence: Many thanks for Billy Bragg...Man with compassion and heart.Angelina, have read about my messages about those Toronto' s finests: the Henrys and Judy Garland of this age Mary Margaret O'Hara?

Ilkka: My friend...my ancestors fight for white-side in Finnish civil war, too, but I find over-simplification to say that the Reds were communists.Mostly they were just working-class and poor people fighting for their rights.

Watch out the web site: Mia Doi Todd is a wonderful new(ish) singersongwriter. Every now and then it is good to have fresh apples in this fossil basket, too!


Entered at Sun Feb 23 11:05:47 CET 2003 from schltns-3.demon.nl (212.238.196.9)

Posted by:

Ragtime

Subject: Ilkka

Hey Ilkka, ook van mij hartelijke groeten.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 10:47:50 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

(red-faced)Fred

er, that should heve been "...ON TV as much as it should" NOT "...TON TV as much as it should".


Entered at Sun Feb 23 10:44:59 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Ben Pike: You are correct about "Paths of Glory" . It's a very fine movie, unfortunately one that doesn't get shown ton TV as much as it should. Must be the subject matter.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 10:33:00 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

Yazoo: Not only are you missing "Paths Of Glory" but you gotta look for "The Killing" and "Killer's Kiss" too. There is some interesting Triva surrounding Kubricks first, awkward, super low budget feature (Fear and Desire} as well. He hated F and D so much he tried to have it supressed at one point, but it's kind of interesting. Killer's Kiss is also very awkward is some ways, but has some great photography of fifties Manhatten.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 07:08:27 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Calvin

Subject: JLB and The Hawks

There are 2-3 Bootlegs of Levon and the Hawks circulating around JLB, I have 2 of them myself, They arent that hard to find if you know the right people to trade with. Look in the Discography section under Bootlegs, Jan actually has the titles of the boots and reviews.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 06:01:06 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

J.L.B.

Location: TN

Does any of yall' know where I can get my hands on some recordings of the early 60's Hawks(solo or w/Ronnie Hawkins)concerts? There very hard to find.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 05:03:37 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

dave metter

Subject: Townhall- a band that Band fans would like

my pick is Townhall...they have Garth on their new album. you should all give them a listen www.townhallmusic.com


Entered at Sun Feb 23 04:32:46 CET 2003 from 9.41.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.41.9)

Posted by:

Pence again

Web: My link

Subject: sorry can't resist one more

see the link for a new article on the brown eyed handsome man himself, CHUCK BERRY! Hearing Johnny B. Goode still does it for me everytime, just like Satisfaction, Like a Rolling Stone, The Weight, Purple Haze...


Entered at Sun Feb 23 04:27:48 CET 2003 from 1cust246.tnt15.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.238.246)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Johnny Paycheck / Who's missing? / And...

I stand corrected regarding the Johnny Paycheck shooting incident and now think the original prison sentence meted out was too long. More than likely, Johnny was just trying to improve the hearing of the man who didn't like his music!!

Who's missing? Richard Thompson's missing that's who! (And a few that have been included should be missing though I definitely have to check out Junior Brown next time he plays NYC.) Anyway, RT's got a spanking brand new official website - those of you who are already fans will surely want to click the above link and check it out.

BTW I saw NRBQ here at the Village Underground about 2 months back and can verify that they are not the Beatles. A fun group though as well as talented musicians with a good sense of humor and eclectic tastes. I view them as a more talented version of Phish from the previous generation. I dd see former NRBQ guitarist and songwriter Big Al Anderson in the past year and imagine the the Q were more potent when he was on board.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 04:28:08 CET 2003 from 9.41.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.41.9)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Brian Sz/Lawrence of Arabia

yes, what a masterpiece, and Dr Zhivago too...they don't make them like that anymore...and if they did they would use computer animation...but yes let's give Lord of Rings its due, an extraordinary achievement...as for me I will always miss Sam Peckinpah and the gut wrenching grandeur of The Wild Bunch...sorry the Quentin Tarantinos of the world just don't do it for me...


Entered at Sun Feb 23 04:24:01 CET 2003 from 9.41.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.41.9)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Pete Rivard

In response, I'll say Los Lobos, who I've mentioned here before. I love their work. They evoke the Band for me in so many ways. And they used Levon to great effect on their 1990 "Little John of God."

Your post put me in mind of the Levon interview from the late 70s in which he talked about the simple work ethic of the Band and was proud of how they never puked and shit and sucked off snakes (his words) onstage...responding to the advent of punk no doubt...


Entered at Sun Feb 23 04:19:36 CET 2003 from 9.41.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.41.9)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Johnny Paycheck

I have a Johnny Paycheck story, though it is fuzzy because of the passage of about 20 years. Not long after he played in Casper, Wyoming, my hometown, in the early 80s, he was accused of a sexual transgression--I think it was statutory rape. The authorities tracked him down and brought him back to stand trial and of course the rumor mill blamed the plaintiff and her mother, who was portrayed as a slut. I forgot the verdict; it was nothing severe, but the whole thing brought some excitement to Casper--a rough town in a lot of ways, where people tended to like either heavy metal (like Great White) or hard country (like Paycheck). Waylon Jennings was set to play there 3 times and cancelled each time, probably because he was packing his nose (RIP). Bob Dylan played Casper in 2001.

I've always thought country musicians, when they get wild hairs up their asses, outdo any so-called hard-living rock and roll stars you'd care to name. I can't imagine most rockers being able to handle serious jail time.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 03:06:11 CET 2003 from (12.162.211.130)

Posted by:

Pete Rivard

Location: Hastings, MN

Subject: Music and Pyrotechnics

This morning's St. Paul Pioneer Press carried various quotes from local bands who feature pyrotechnics. One young wag griped that any club's refusal to allow stage pryotechnics would "screw us over...take away the fireworks and what's left is is boring..."

Couldn't agree more.

Maybe they should try improving their musicianship.

How about a thread for current acts most likely to set a real fire in the hearts of Band fans: Bela Fleck and Junior Brown top my list. Both musicians of Garthian stature. For songwriting, Bruce Springsteen and Mark Knopfler (also Knopler for outpicking Robbie). Also Lucinda Williams, Wilco and Guy Davis. Who am I missing?


Entered at Sun Feb 23 01:13:24 CET 2003 from 216.158.64.43.dragonbbs.com (216.158.64.43)

Posted by:

Stephen L. Garen

Location: Wilmington, Clinton Co. Ohio

Subject: Johnny Paycheck

Crabgrass, I was not there, at North High Lounge in Hillsboro, at the time of the shooting. The band I was in at the time played there a week or two prior to the shooting, and a week or two after we returned and played. Ennyhoo, the rumor was that the man who Johnny shot made a comment on his dislike for JP's music, which in turn JP shot him in the ear, not the head as the report said. I figure this rumor to have been true as the owner of the North High Lounge, Ernie, never said otherwise to me. At any rate I have read JP's statement on his official site stating he quit drugs, alcohol, even smoking after being in prison for this as he could have killed him. I remember his arrest photo in the Hillsboro Press Gazette and he looked almost like the infamous shot of Charles Manson on the '69 Life Magazine cover. His current pictures on his site looked a damn site batter than that. I was relieved in reading his 'cold turkey' remark as I figured it was due to JP's drug and alcohol habit when he shot the man in Hillsboro. There could be more to the story of the incident than I heard, but I do know the victim was just grazed. Still I agree JP was no angel at the time of the shooting.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 00:51:12 CET 2003 from 24-196-233-33.charterga.net (24.196.233.33)

Posted by:

Don Pugatch

Location: Land of Live Music, Ga

Subject: Bela

Last night, another magical Flecktone night, excellent venue, 1200 seat auditarium on the campus of Ga. Tech, sold out, not a seat to be had. Great crowd, form 5 to 95 and no one smoking, no one acting like an ass, just people who wanted to be captivated by the likes of 4 of the most talented artists this land has brought us. A wonderful mix of old and never heard tunes, with a new CD, just finished, Bela and his boys transfixed the audience and what I just fined so wonderful, is that each member has equal time on stage, including their own solo. Jeff did his usuall Mr. Music routine, and his two saxs at once, unbelievable, new to the reportoir, synthesiser. Victor, the master of the bass, and of course, he did his bass dance, Futureman, has grown, more drums, as well as his patented Syn tax whatever, and even some keyboard. Bela, what does Butch say, pure perfection, he is some talent. What a leader, and his solo, the most interesting version of Beatle cuts I have heard with the crowd singing to his banjo, All you need is love, well guess in these times, that would not hurt. Tonight, hopefully we can get into see Susan Tedeschi, too cheap to pay the ticketmonster charge and will wing it at the box office, let you know tomorrow.


Entered at Sun Feb 23 00:29:12 CET 2003 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.home.nl (212.120.101.7)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Lowlands

Subject: Ilkka

hey Ilkka, hartelijke groeten ;-)


Entered at Sun Feb 23 00:06:34 CET 2003 from (203.197.126.107)

Posted by:

Yazooman

Subject: EN and Kubrick

EN.....you mean Ahimsa (non-violence)...don't you ? ;)) Ashima is a nice name for girls tho.

You do know quite a few things about India, mebbe we should chat sometime at the c-room. And whatever's up with Khaled?...he was pretty popular in this part of the world for singing Rai music (or his version of it).

Speaking of movies, I am on a Kubrick high right now. Dr. Strangelove, 2001 - A Space Odyseey, Clockwork Orange, Full Metal Jacket, The Shining......the guy was one awesome director. The interesting thing is the different types of movies he made from epics (Spartacus) to black comedies (Strangelove), sci-fi (2001), horror (Shining), war/Vietnam (FMJ) etc. I am not sure where to put Clockwork Orange, its partly sci-fi but mebbe a tad too literate to be classified as just that.

BTW one of the best places to know a lot of interesting tidbits about Strangelove is imdb.com. The metaphors Kubrick used in that movie were amazingly funny. And I can't believe how could anybody select George Scott to play Patton after Strangelove? How could someone even think of Scott doing a serious role after Strangelove !!


Entered at Sat Feb 22 22:17:44 CET 2003 from adsl-66-218-59-249.dslextreme.com (66.218.59.249)

Posted by:

Howard

Location: There's A Flood Out In California

Subject: Stats

Thanks for the statistics Jan! It's great to see the whole world enjoying The Band and their music. And thanks for the website too it has given me much pleasure this past year. Peace, Howard.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 22:12:03 CET 2003 from m198214181177.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.181.177)

Posted by:

Pehr

Subject: Early Dylan covers

A Cd I almost forgot is Iggy Pop's "Wild Love"... early stuff, from rehearsals, ca. late 60's. There is a great (I think) version of "Hollis Brown" on it, The electric guitar is played like a banjo and uses an old cheap cheesy drum machine, with Iggy singing out his nose toward the most cinematic effect.

Another cut is a note for note attempt at "Shake your money maker" with more wacked- out impromptu l;yrics The guitarist tries to do toe to toe Bloomfield solo verbatim then crashes and burns into blissfull entropic bicyle wreck of twisted metal hopelessness. gotta love it.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 21:38:06 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

Long Distance Operator

Subject: The Price Of Oil

I saw Billy Bragg last November, and he had just written "The Price Of Oil". I'd never seen Billy before, and I had no idea how political he is. Soap Box Preacher, for sure. Very chatty. Anyway, at one point he says, "Who out there downloads music from the Internet?", and hardly anybody acknowledged it. Nobody could be sure what Billy's stance was, so only a few nervously raised their hands. Billy then grabbed a stack of CD's and started handing them to the people that said they download. It was a version of the then brand-new "Price Of Oil" song. Billy implored them: "Post this on the Internet! Trade it with your friends! Duplicate copies and pass them out! Get this song out there!". It was great. The man has charisma in spades, and he wasn't worried about his royalties. I don't necessarily agree with him politically, but I sure admire his passion.

It was a great show, by the way. He had the inimitable Ian "Mac" McLagan with him, with that beautiful fluttering Leslie sound from his Hammond B2. Mac is criminally underrated. He's had a brilliant career.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 20:46:23 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Brien Sz: Thanks for that great lectures. Several films i love in the same post

BEG: I surely missed Ray post...Clash is so rare in the GB...I chosed my favorites in the GB on the totality of the topics...not on a single one.....i'm surely subjective....Thanks for evoking the ASHIMA, Mahatma is my model....Marley too...at this very moment I'm listenning to "Worlds Apart" in Springsteen's "The Rising"... which could be interpreted as a song about the love between an American soldier and an Islamic woman, integrates a Pakistani choir, Springsteen's voice floating with the chants"...The song is superb...more, the tune seems African...I dont recognize the back-voices.... ...I'm with you for peace in general...but this time it's diferent...my previous posts are clear on what made me sad in that latest one-direction "peace" ..dont neglect it


Entered at Sat Feb 22 18:04:53 CET 2003 from du-tele3-187.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.187)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Whorehouse Music

Wherehouse- LDO & Ben P – I have shopped there but hadn’t noticed the pun in the name (hopefully that is what is is). Yes, not a great record store by any means compared to Virgin, Tower or larger HMVs. What I did remember is that they sold both new and second-hand discs. This wouldn’t happen in the UK (well, I have seen it, but not in major towns). I think here that the record manufacturers exert control by not supplying anyone who also sells used copies. This is generally true of UK bookshops too, except for a few specialist academic shops which hold out-of-print used copies and major expensive textbooks in used form. This difference hadn’t struck me before. I know some French bookstores sell both new and used. I have to say that I approve of forcing the differential, which seems a sensible one. I know an author who was asked to speak in a French bookshop. On arrival he looked at the shelves and they had none of his books on sale. When he mentioned this, they said they had loads of second-hand ones in their used dept, then couldn’t understand when he declined to speak – authors do not get paid for second-hand sales.

It annoys me at Record Fairs when I see some of the stalls which say “All CDs £7” and have them in no order whatsoever. Most of the stalls at these events are run by enthusiasts who have their stock arranged by genre and alphabetical order. These few other stalls which have hundreds of totally unsorted chart CDs (all very clean indeed) seem to me to be using record fairs to sell stolen goods, and I’m amazed they get away with it. I know friends with record stores who were burgled, and it’s hard to recover- days of work cataloguing, months to claim insurance and then no ‘depth of back catalogue’ left.

But back to “Whorehouse Music” it’s a wonderful name for a jazz and blues collectors store. Maybe when I retire, I’ll open one! It could become a chain …


Entered at Sat Feb 22 17:57:53 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Dave Hopkins = Being the Band and Clapton fan that I am, "Further On Up The Road" has always been one of the highlights of TLW for me. I have to listen closer for Richard's piano though. I know Garth does a couple of cool organ fills in the last verse after EC sings "someday you're gonna be cryin". Levon and Rick also lay down the beat sooooo great on that tune.

Mike D = a new baby! congrats man....I knew you'd like that Ringo link that Dexy posted. You assume I'll check out that Let It Be stuff? Are you kidding? between that, and this threetles thing, and the new Ringo - it's gonna be a good year for Beatle fans.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 17:30:37 CET 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp191478.sympatico.ca (64.229.0.113)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

Subject: THE Price Of Oil

Empty Now: It is Ray Pence who is the best........:-D....He was the one who posted awhile ago about Billy Bragg's protest song...Yeah...I prefer music to end any debates....Anytime...

Oh and don't forget the Punks who Rocked Against Racism...And of course Bob Marley who espoused Peace Love and Unity..."Until the philosophy which holds...One race superior and another inferior...Is finally and permanently discredited...And abandoned....WAR"....Also England's Ska group The Specials sing "Racist Friend"....Yes indeed...They're out there.......and right here.....As an educator what continues to infuriate me is how the "leaders" of the world continue to teach our youth that the only way to solve problems is through aggression and violence.....And then they have the audacity to be stunned by the violence that exists in their schools and communities.......

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"...Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi....Known as....Mahatma ( great souled) Gandhi


Entered at Sat Feb 22 17:14:44 CET 2003 from dialup-63.215.112.254.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.112.254)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Brien, I would recommend a recent book called Apostles of Secession. It consists of the legal documents that the seceeding states drew up to explain the reasons they left the United States. Not to paraphrase, but each state describes in no uncertain terms its need to defend the institution of slavery as the reason for seceeding. The title comes from the loose orgainzation of secession agents who acted to define the issues. There is literally no room for interpretation in each states extended briefs. It would seem the attempt to reportray secession in other terms is a vivid example of the use of PC from another era.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 17:00:54 CET 2003 from (216.68.66.21)

Posted by:

Phat Phreddy

Location: Sunny CA

Subject: Fantastic web site

Absolutely incredible fan site, the best I've ever seen. For the best Band I've ever heard. Have spent more than an hour looking around here, and it feels like I've just scratched the surface. Thanks to whoever is behind this.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 15:49:34 CET 2003 from ac809728.ipt.aol.com (172.128.151.40)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: Epics, Film, G&G

Lawrence of Arabia is one of the finest epics ever. David Lean is quite possibly the greatest epic film maker ever, L of A, Bridge Over River Kwai, and of course Doctor Zchivago to name a couple. You can see the crafsmanship in these films. Of course all movies center around a good story but the execution of the movie counts for a great deal. Knowing when to be sweeping and being able to mix in the intimate within the "BIG" -that's really what makes it work. Pacing and editing are equally crucial. Leans epics are blueprints for any grand epic. Lean also knew how to define his characters; who are the major players and who are the supporters (in the case of support, the subtle needs to be intertwined with the grit and power of the role)- something Gods and Generals lacks a great deal of.

Peter Jackson is the latest director that has taken a complicated literary work and masterfully made it into a cinematic tour de force. Where God and Generals fails to incorporate wisley its many characters, Jackson does not. Both works (G&G and LOTR)contain long poetic speeches but Jackson, through economy of use, lets you absorb and take in the beauty of the work. In G&G, it seems so forced, there's too much, you're pounded over the head with one long dialoge after another. I understand that back then folks were accustomed to long windedness, read the letters of those folks from back then or biographies of those characters from that time and the Revolutionary War era (John Adams for example) and you know that these folks were not lacking in usage of vocabulary (as some of you may be thinking of this piece right now). That's fine, but the execution of it on film takes tact and careful molding. In G&G, none of that is there. The use of multiple story lines (characters) is bogged down and the poor editing of the piece makes it even harder to follow.

G&G should have been a movie soley on Stonewall Jackson as about 50% of the movie already is. It would have been a far superior film if it had concentrated on it. The part of Robert E. Lee could have been played by a painted board and is so utterly dull that it makes you wonder why the Union wanted to offer Lee the command to begin with. The storyline of Chamberlin, just ends abrubtly. Jeff Daniels does a decent job but see Gettysburg to appreciate his character. Daniels plays the same role in that film as well.

The battles are of the 'made for tv' kind. When this comes to tv, there will be little editing of content. This may be where the film fails at its most. It lacks the horror of fighting an enemy at close range. Scenes that could have really brought the "F**k that!" emotion out, like in Saving Private Ryan, were no where to be found. Yea there are some moments where I was going "oh man!" but overall, the battles were timid and week.

What was good about the film was that it brought to light that the Civil War was not a war centered around the issue of slavery that our present culture seems to think it was. In fact the driving force behind the war was States rights. If you know your history, you know that the biggest gripe for not signing the Constitution was the issue of State's Rights. Less than a 100 years later, many folks in the south were still more loyal to their state than their country. So when Lincoln calls up arms to invade their homes, they took it personally. It's one of the reasons Lee declined to command the Union forces. Yes, slavery is an important issue in the fight but it was not the initial cornerstone it is made to be in the present day. It is addressed in the film and the Chamberlin character has the best lines in addressing the issue of slavery.

The notable thing about the movie is how strong Christian devotion and moral values was back then. I went to the movie with my nieghbor who is a retired Baptist Minister. I was amazed and he was delighted with how much they used the Bible and belief in God was back then. Usually in movies this is glossed over. But knowing a bit about the era (as he does as well) you know that folks were very devoted to their religion - but seeing its usage on screen is another thing. The use of scripture was commendable but the execution of its use was poor. It's a movie for the History buff but not a good one at that. For the casual viewer, it's a catastrophe.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 15:28:10 CET 2003 from zorg31.revealed.net (208.243.237.31)

Posted by:

Mike D.

I have decided to come out of lurking mode for the time being, as I have a bit of free time as the wife and the newborn are quietly sleeping.

Seems the feud has died down again, thankfully :)

John D., you won't be disappointed with the Big Pink dvd-audio disc. To my ears it's as if being in the studio while it was being recorded. Maybe they'll do the rest of the Capitol albums, especially NLSC (the remaster was rather poorly done).

Bayou Sam, thanks you for that tip on Ringo. That's great stuff. I assume you'll check out the new Let It Be cd when it is released.

Also had a chance to purchase the DVD of "Rust Never Sleeps", which is quite good. Haven't seen it in years. The sound is quite good. I also noticed that 2 of the guys who worked on The Last Waltz also worked on Rust Never Sleeps (David Meyers and Hiro Narita). Another thing that struck me is bassist Billy Talbot wearing a Lynyrd Skynyrd t-shirt in the movie. Perhaps as Neil Young and Crazy Horse were fans, maybe it's a tribute? I do recall that the songs Powderfinger and Sedan Delivery were offered by Neil to Skynyrd. Ok, so it's not quite Band related but so what? :)


Entered at Sat Feb 22 15:13:43 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link


Entered at Sat Feb 22 14:57:58 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: 2 - 0


Entered at Sat Feb 22 13:56:08 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.1)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: Peace on Earth for dictators of good wishes

Pacifists: 1 v/s Clever People: 0

BEG: when the argument is musical, I accept the defeat..... BEG, you are the best (sincerly),...btw...Please more info on Billy Bragg......album ref....-):

Fred: link for linking


Entered at Sat Feb 22 13:06:23 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.143)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Subject: Epics

Fred: I'm with you, "Lawrence of Arabia" is the definition of the term "epic film". Glad you could reach a "life goal".

The problem with dialect is that it's a spoken but not written medium. To slum words when you write is just plain wrong.. (IMHO).


Entered at Sat Feb 22 09:04:29 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

"Dixie" as an epic (of the film variety)....I could see it working as it does have those necessary elements for an epic: the historical aspect; the encounter or should I say missed encounter with an historical figure---Robert E. Lee; the fictitious character representing "the little man" of society caught up in the whirlwind of history, etc. But my main concern is that central character....is Virgil Kane charismatic enough to carry the weight of the film, like, oh I don't know...Lawrence of Arabia? when I think of the epic as a film genre, that film (Lawrence of Arabia) is my benchmark (other people are entitled to think otherwise)

I've been waiting almost 20 years to use that term "film genre" in a conversation! (I took some film course in uni.). Well, one "life goal" reached!


Entered at Sat Feb 22 09:02:14 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Dar Williams, by the way, is a pretty excellent singer/songwriter who has done a lot good work. She may have excaped the attention of most in the GB however; She has only emerged in the last ten years or so....


Entered at Sat Feb 22 07:01:10 CET 2003 from as3-2-109.hip.berkeley.edu (136.152.194.223)

Posted by:

Dave Hopkins

Location: Berkeley, CA

I know I'm coming late to the "fave Richard piano parts" discussion but I wanted to mention "Further On Up the Road" from The Last Waltz...overdubbed for all I know, but jammin' all the same.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 06:21:47 CET 2003 from dialup-166.90.84.117.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.84.117)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Subject: G&G

Brien, you are being nice. It's a dog. And I haven't seen critical reaction to a movie this bad (check out the Rotten Tomatoes site for a sampling) since Madonna's last movie. I understand it may surpass Battlefield Earth as the worst rated movie in Rotten Tomatoes history. I was beyond disappointed with this movie which (I have trouble believing this now) I had really greatly anticipated.

You know, Ed Voci may have stumbled onto something. How do you bring an epic to the screen? Well, start with a good story, which Gods & Generals evidentally is not (I haven't read it). So, is there an epic story of the Civil War? Rome Hamks? They are doing Cold Mountain but that's more of a love story period piece with the Civil War well in the background. How about TNTDODD? Virgil's adventures in Richmond as most the city burns down after the Confederate withdrawl. With the bells ringing. At least there is the appearance of a narrative thread which G&G lacks badly.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 04:43:25 CET 2003 from ac90d05b.ipt.aol.com (172.144.208.91)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: Gods and Generals

Saw Gods and Generals tonight. Hmmmmm, I have lots of thoughts I still have to organize but on the whole - an average movie at best. I understand where the director wanted to go but he was overmatched (He should have called Peter Jackson whose handling of Lord of the Rings is far, far superior in terms of making an epic). The editing killed the pacing of this film and the added PC scenes were incredibly stupid (Gen Jackson and the Black cook was beyond dumb and an utter waste of time). Music is good but too turned up in portions as if they were in the editing room going - "I think we may need to crank the music to fill the void of drama." The battle scenes weren't overly mesmerizing - 3 in all, none great. I'm killing it worse than it is but like I said - average at best. 2 stars out of 5. As for the Dylan tune - well I just sat through 4 hours of, well you know, so Dylans credit roll tune wasn't interesting enough to hold me for long.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 04:34:50 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Calvin: thanks for that correction about Paul Newman as Rocky Graziano, not Marciano!

Richard: What's wrong with dialects?

Empty Now: thanks for keeping my mind occupied with the links you've been supplying lately.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 03:54:13 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Subject: Dexys midnight Ringos

Dexy = thanks for that link to the new Ringo CD. It was a great look at the CD. Did you check out the little video on the making of the song about George? Ringo fans - check it out.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 03:41:07 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

Long Distance Operator

Subject: The Wherehouse

Peter, that wasn't actually a typo. The name of the establishment is Wherehouse Music. Having shopped there, however, I'd have to say that your second spelling would be more apt.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 01:53:50 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-023castocp0028.dialsprint.net (65.178.104.28)

Posted by:

Rollie

Subject: The Band (oddly enough) on Mountain Stage again --sunday feb 23 4-6pm


Entered at Sat Feb 22 01:49:24 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Found It!

Well I finally went to a Canadian site. HMV.com and found the DVD Audio version of Music From Big Pink. Not to be found on Amazon. Thanks for the heads up. Robbie Robertson will be in Toronto on Wednesday to receive an award from the Aboriginal Foundation. Also doing press interviews and speaking at Canadian Music Week.


Entered at Sat Feb 22 01:33:41 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: BONES - DAVID POWELL - DVD AUDIO BIG PINK

OK guys you hooked me. I've gone to Amazon.com and just about everywhere eles and there is no listing anywhere for a DVD Audio version of Big Pink. Where does one find it? Thanks


Entered at Sat Feb 22 00:45:21 CET 2003 from schltns-3.demon.nl (212.238.196.9)

Posted by:

Ragtime

Subject: just saying hi

Hello Band friends

Just testing, since my computer came back from the doctor today...


Entered at Sat Feb 22 00:20:51 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny

Subject: Dumbth...& Reunions

I'd hate to be a music club owner in a week that has brought over 100 deaths due to nothing less than stupidity. The pyrotechnic-fueled blaze that killed 95 people at an oldies heavy metal show in Rhode Island last night might sound like a rejected idea for "Spinal Tap: the Sequel" if it just weren't so downright pathetic.

On a much happier note, the Washington, DC affiliate of CBS News radio reported this afternoon that Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel have been rehearsing together this week for a rumored reunion performance at Sunday night's Grammy Awards broadcast, where the duo will receive some sort of lifetime achievement award. Now if they will give one to The Band next year, maybe Robbie and Levon...nah!


Entered at Sat Feb 22 00:21:10 CET 2003 from du-tele3-229.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.229)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Dylan biopic

The Independent has a couple of pieces on this today- multiple actors will play Dylan including a woman and an 11-year old African-American boy! (Not kidding). They also mention that Dylan has given them access to use anything on the OST including unreleased stuff. They mention the existence of complete film of the 1966 concert …

Ben- watch that spelling. I had to read it three times before I sussed that "wherehouse" was "Warehouse" rather than "whorehouse"!


Entered at Sat Feb 22 00:09:21 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

Subject: Can't get away from The Boys

I'm tellin ya, I never go anywhere, but this just never stops. I strayed into a wherehouse music today and the new Dar Williams album, which must be getting kind of a push was on. She does "Wispering Pines" on it. Hard to compeate with the original, but it's no slouch.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 23:53:24 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

laffoli bulb

Subject: lyrical pablum

unfortunately what passes for songwriting these days, e.g. paul mccartney, robbie robertson, is nothing more than the musical equivalent of processed babyfood. looks good on the jar or box, might even eat it and think its good. there are many out there who have had the real thing and know it better, taste wise as well as nutrional. packaging and slogans will grab you every time, but its boring even when they say its new and improved(really just trying to make more money from the same thing), is it not better to experience some of the old dishes, served up by experience gained from using ingredients that vary from locale to locale? you bet it is!!!


Entered at Fri Feb 21 22:14:33 CET 2003 from usrfw01.prenhall.com (198.4.159.5)

Posted by:

Ray G

Location: Pearl River, NY

Subject: Mountain Stage

Darn! It's over. They cut Forever Young short, ahhh


Entered at Fri Feb 21 22:10:37 CET 2003 from 208.41.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.41.208)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: 1996 Broadcast Today

...The Band just finished "Crazy Mama" and what a thrill it is to hear Garth's tapestries with Rick up front...and then, "Shape I'm In," with Rick maybe the only singer I can think of who can make the song vulnerable and swaggering at the same time...this is a great way to end the week!


Entered at Fri Feb 21 21:53:50 CET 2003 from 24-197-165-58.charterga.net (24.197.165.58)

Posted by:

Dp

Location: Trail of Tears

Subject: Rick

Boy, do I miss his singing, now It makes no difference,


Entered at Fri Feb 21 21:48:14 CET 2003 from ns1.prenhall.com (198.4.159.5)

Posted by:

Ray G

Location: Pearl River

Subject: Mountain Stage ...

Listening to the Guys do their thing on WFUV's Mountain Stage as I write... Back to Memphis, Remedy, and now in the midst of Blind Willie McTell.

Tis a fine thing!


Entered at Fri Feb 21 21:18:32 CET 2003 from 208.41.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.41.208)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Zantzinger and Dylan

...once again, politics in the Guestbook...and with good reason.

Hattie Carroll is a riveting, devastating song. Amazing to me, any artist who can do just one such song. But Dylan has done dozens of them.

I found a fascinating link on Hattie Carroll. It turns out that her race was not the only thing that played a role in that hate crime. She also suffered from various disabilities--much like James Byrd of Jasper Texas, tortured and murdered a few years back by white supremacists--and her health condition contributed to her death following Zantzinger's vicious assault. I'll find the link and post later.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 21:10:41 CET 2003 from cpe0000397f3160-cm0000397f3060.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.233.119.190)

Posted by:

Jacques Poirier

I just finished watching "the last waltz" and I realized how great the band was as a group. I hope kids today listen to music like the band and realise how great music can be and get inspired by their songs.Music these days seems to be dictated by record companies for nothing more than profits.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 21:06:58 CET 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Posted by:

Bones

David Powell: Thanks for the review of the DVD-Audio version of Music From Big Pink. I have to update my system. I was originally opposed to surround sound audio, thinking music should come at you instead of around you. However, now that I've listened to it, it sure does sound GOOD!

Bob Wigo: I don't think any one would argue with you regarding Levon's graciousness and his wonderful love of life quality. You see it when you meet him right away. However, I think that reporters hit certain buttons with him that lead him down an angry road. It comes off sometimes as bitterness (especially regarding the record industry which is completely understandable).


Entered at Fri Feb 21 19:28:14 CET 2003 from du-tele3-134.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.134)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Uncredited songwriters (cont)

From the latest Mojo Beatles special (Days of Revolution):

“I remember Paul McCartney coming to breakfast one morning”, says Mike Love. “He was playing what turned out to be Back in the USSR. I told him it was cool, but I said, you gotta talk about the girls in Russia. Of course he needed no help in writing the song, but he later acknowledged that I helped him out on the bridge. A tape still exists of he and I playing around with that song.”

Well, Mike, you took on Brian Wilson. You should be taking on Paul. After all old Chuck Berry had nothing to do with any of it, just as he had nothing to do with “Surfin’ USA.”


Entered at Fri Feb 21 19:26:53 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: Hattie Carroll

I certainly agree with Don about Dylan's "Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll". Lately I've been listening to both "The Times They Are A-Changin' " and "The Freewheelin'..." albums. On the former, "Ballad of Hollis Brown", "With God On Our Side", "Only A Pawn In Their Game", "When the Ship Comes In" and "Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll" still seem especially poignant in these troubled times today. "Blowin' in the Wind", "Masters of War", "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall" and "Talkin' World War III Blues", on the latter album, still hit home for me now more than ever.

Dylan reportedly was inspired to write "Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll" while taking part in the civil rights March on Washington in August 1963 after reading an account of William Zantzinger's trial. For the most part, the song is a literal account of really happened, right down to the injustice of a six months sentence. The song is one of those that Dylan can be seen performing in the film "Don't Look Back".

In his Dylan biography, "Down The Highway", Howard Sounes tracked down William Zantzinger who is still alive. Mr. Zantzinger disputed the accuracy of the song and had this to say about Dylan:

"He's a no-account son of a bitch. He's just like a scum of a bag of the earth [sic]. I should have sued him and put him in jail."

William Zantzinger killed Hattie Carroll just over forty years ago today, on February 8, 1963. The inconvenience of his sentence is probably just a distant memory to him. I wonder what became of Ms. Carroll's eleven children.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 19:10:35 CET 2003 from (129.237.250.26)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Brown Eyed Girl and Billy Bragg

...and you are more than welcome!...

for those who want to download MP3's of the Billy Bragg song BEG provided, you can e-mail me...

I've just read that CBS executives are rumoured to be thinking of cutting off the microphones of performers who try to make anti-war messages at the Grammies...

always amusing to me how folks get mad about "injecting" politics into ceremonies like the Grammies and the Olympics...huge, huge spectacles involving power relations don't need anyone to bring in politics, it's already there!

It was great when the US track stars gave the Black Power salute at the 1968 Mexico City Olympics...and yes BEG, I wondered about Robbie's omission of those lyrics you mentioned at the 2002 Games...I noticed it, and am sure he censored himself...

The suits better just ban Springsteen from the Grammies altogether because his very presence repudiates what's going on in the name of America these days...

rpence3@sunflower.com


Entered at Fri Feb 21 18:44:21 CET 2003 from wcs2-pent.nipr.mil (198.26.74.100)

Posted by:

Nick

Ed, Actor John Favreau starred as Marciano in a 1999 tv movie. Pretty good. Marciano never believed in banks and used to hide his money in very secretive, strange places. After his tragic death in a plane crash (1969) they couldn't find his money. His family looked for years but came up empty.

Anyway about the Band. Someone mentioned Dylan joining them onstage at the Mississippi River Festival. What year was that? Thanks


Entered at Fri Feb 21 18:26:27 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

butch

Subject: new stats

Almost 100.000 different IP addresses visited The Band site last month. writes Jan,,,,,,,,,,,

no truth to the rumor they are ALL from tennesee,,,,, or your front lawn,,,,, heeeeeeeheeeeeeeheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


Entered at Fri Feb 21 18:21:42 CET 2003 from usrfw01.prenhall.com (198.4.159.5)

Posted by:

Ray G

Location: Pearl River, NY

Subject: En: Very nice post about Levon and Amy Helm

It was very refreshing to read about Levon and his daughter performing for children who are dealing with cancer, thanks for posting that story. I agree with Bob Wigo in that Levon sounds like a man who is happy to be around and still able to perform.

Peace


Entered at Fri Feb 21 18:01:12 CET 2003 from 24-197-165-58.charterga.net (24.197.165.58)

Posted by:

Don Pugatch

Location: Roswell, Ga

Subject: The Death of Hattie Carroll

Always thought that the above was one of Bob's greatest, and yesterday, I must have listened three times in a row, and could not stop thinking about the current world situation as it relates to this song. Ok, since we are all been bombarded by recent politcal events, would like to see others opionions of who the players would be , with reference to Hattie, William, the judge and of course, the people with the tears. I have some ideas and thoughts, what's yours?


Entered at Fri Feb 21 17:39:17 CET 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp190161.sympatico.ca (64.229.2.66)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Billy Bragg's "Price Of Oil"

"Voices on the radio Tell us that we're going to war
Those brave men and women in uniform
They want to know what they're fighting for
The generals want to hear the end game
The allies want to approve the plan
But the oil men in the White House
They just don't give a damn

It's all about the price of oil
It's all about the price of oil
Don't give me no shit about blood, sweat, tears and toil
It's all about the price of oil

Now I ain't no fan of Saddam Hussein
Oh, please don't get me wrong
If it's freeing the Iraqi people you're after
Then why have we waited so long
Why didn't we sort this out last time
Was he less evil than he is now
The stock market holds the answer
To why him, why here, why now

Because it's all about the price of oil
It's all about the price of oil
Don't give me no shit about blood, sweat, tears and toil
It's all about the price of oil

Saddam killed his own people
Just like General Pinochet
And once upon a time both these evil men
Were supported by the U.S.A.
And whiskered even Bin Laden
Once drank from America's cup
Just like that election down in Florida
This shit doesn't all add up

Because it's all about the price of oil
It's all about the price of oil
Don't give me no shit about blood, sweat, tears and toil
It's all about the price of oil"

Or I could have shared Dylan's "Masters Of War" (1963)......Thank you Ray Pence!


Entered at Fri Feb 21 16:29:21 CET 2003 from stjhts25d071.nbnet.nb.ca (142.166.249.200)

Posted by:

WS Walcott

Subject: calvin/albums

Hey Calvin, I got some Neil Young albums and a still sealed copy of Carny. Yep, I still call them albums too. I listen to my vinyl all the time.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 15:44:28 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: They killed all which is beautiful

Thanks Woodlark, Bob

Cheb Hasni, an other most popular Rai singer, shot by islamist terrorists just after performing that song (the link- Real Player) in the craddle of Rai music, Oran.

A melodious harmony on a complaintive voice, considered by Rai specialists the best creation of the 90s

An attempt of translation

“Stop crying, say it’s just destiny
Since you doubted, You felt weak
Bitter words made you worried
Rumors are just for hurting proud hearts”

Every time i listen to that song, I cant avoid thinking to Amanda. The post is for everybody but the song is for Amanda

Music is a language that everybody understand


Entered at Fri Feb 21 15:32:31 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Calvin

Subject: Fred, Rocky, Paul Newman and Albums

Fred, the Paul Newman movie you are thinking of is Somebody Up There Likes Me, but it is the (kind of) story of Rocky Graziano, not Marciano.

And who doesnt still call them albums? The other day I bought a refurbished Scholastic Record Player-you know, one of those big hulking things they used in schools in the US during the 1960s and 70s-since then Ive been haunting Thrift Stores for out of prints albums, lots of Jazz stuff, and interesting human interest type albums. Found a wonderful copy of Here it Now with Edward R. Murrow. CDs are a wonderous thing, but there is a certain warmth of tone on a record player that uses tubes that I really miss. Now if I can just find some of those Neil Young Albums.

Now if I could just find a copy of the King of Comedy life would be truly good.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 15:25:54 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Musicians on Call

Doesn't sound to me like the act of a bitter man. Good turn Levon. Bless those children and the music that soothes them.

PEACE


Entered at Fri Feb 21 15:23:14 CET 2003 from 223.64.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.64.223)

Posted by:

Dexy

Web: My link

Subject: Ringo's George Tribute

Nice promotional video at link above about Ringo's new CD and his tribute to George. Lead guitar: Eric Clapton.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 15:17:13 CET 2003 from du-tele3-235.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.235)

Posted by:

E.Rich Val Doonican

Subject: More conspiracy theory …

To explain my method. Using the Biblical Code” system you get in the mystical arcane Aramaic counting system (2-10-4-4-24, i.e. 2 x 10 +4 = 24, 4=for, 24)

TaKE a load off faNNy, takE a loaD for free, take a load off fannY – see what that spells?


Entered at Fri Feb 21 15:05:48 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.21)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Ed: Ah yes, Bill Fonda.. I like them…Reminds me of that film w\Phil Spector.

“Dontcha” saves hardly any space at all and seems a ridiculous dialect replacement for “don’t you”. I keep telling you guys, don’t write in dialect… It’ll kill ya …



Entered at Fri Feb 21 14:31:58 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

To me, Danko's "Java Blues"(his best song) and Helm/Dunn "Blues So Bad" could be right there on the songwriting Post Band list. Alas, the bar is set almost as low as the media sizing up Bush's job performance. See, I always try to blend the two (P.S., thank you Pat, you are a gentleman and a scholar, and a guy who once watched the original five at the racetrack with me).


Entered at Fri Feb 21 13:10:52 CET 2003 from 74.ppp135.rsd.worldonline.se (213.204.135.74)

Posted by:

Mr. Woodlark / Monsieur Alouette

Location: Nordic countries

Subject: Empty Now

I have enjoyed your contributions in this gb. I am glad that it was me who encouraged you to return back. - You have recently posted on globalization and Algerian ethno music. These issues are dear to my soul, too. However, this is a site mainly for the friends of Americana and rock. You cannot expect that you'll get a reaction to every controversial thread you are introducing - not even from people like CRABGRASS, MATTK and other people who are making a big deal of being "intellectual naturally curly" (this underground definition joyfully © by Woodlark's Dog 2003). I still believe that the majority of gb regulars are drawing an inspiration from your messages even if they don't answer every day.

And now to my point: thanks for your information on Algerian ethno music. Mainly by a coincidence, the Algerian music is listened in our home every day. It is the singing of MOUMEN and violin playing of DJAMEL. Their playing could have been taking from THE BROWN ALBUM, for sure. - Thanks for your contributions on Civil War, too. In Finland where I was born - the frontier between the East and the West - we had the Civil War in 1918. It was between communists and anti-communists. Just to get accepted in this gb I will tell that my family was on the anti-communist side and the last battles of this war took place on their farm. My grandmother took the shelter in the cellar and stayed alive (otherwise I wouldn't be able to post this, do I :-) Later on, in the sixties, I heard "The Weight" and "The Night They Drove Ol' Dixie Down" in her kitchen. Never thought that it has something to do with the history until I discovered this great web site.

Footnote: Moumen - http://www.moumen.com
My gb vCard: http://www.geocities.com/woodlark.geo/theb1.hm
My email: woodlark.geo (Danish pastry) yahoo.com


Entered at Fri Feb 21 12:55:23 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link


Entered at Fri Feb 21 12:51:53 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

The article of Michael Solomon and Michael Zorek is titled

"Cheering up patients, with Musicians On Call"

Page 2 in the below referred Pdf document


Entered at Fri Feb 21 12:14:53 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: Musicians On Call

Sample from an article authored by Michael Solomon and Michael Zorek
in www.sarcoma.com/files/su_ss2000.pdf dated "summer 2000"

"Recently, musician Amy Helm and her father, Levon Helm (from the legendary rock group The Band, and himself a cancer survivor), visited the pediatric unit at MSKCC and performed for the patients as part of Musicians On Call hospital performance program. First, Amy and her Dad jammed in the playroom with staff and patients. Then, togeth- er-with Amy singing and her father on guitar-the father and daughter team 'made rounds' room-to-room, singing for chil- dren and their families. Amy said, "The room to room experience is beautiful. Some kids in bed are smiling, some are sad, some want to hear more, some are bored, some critique the tunes, and some just giggle at us. Those beautiful kids are teaching me a truth I'm just beginning to learn; that life is quick and beautiful, and the magic of the music somehow has room for all that pain and joy. It's amazing." Levon Helm, himself recovering from throat cancer treated at MSKCC said, "This is my opportunity to give something back. It's so satisfying to get to be there with the children and help them through their day. It's the highest reward you can get." Levon and Amy Helm have returned several times to the pediatric ward, singing again for the children"


Entered at Fri Feb 21 09:45:52 CET 2003 from du-tele3-242.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.242)

Posted by:

E. Rich Von Dadikin

Subject: Dallas 1963

I read Ed Voci’s conspiracy theories blaming The Hawks for the Kennedy assassination and remembered that The Weight is about the impossibility of redemption. So does it hold a coded message? Nazareth has to be the place where a new movement (CIA control of the world through puppet presidents) is born, and so it must represent Dallas. Carmen was the CIA code-name for Jackie Kennedy (I saw Carmen and the devil … side by side … she said I gotta go but my friend can stick around). Jack Ruby died mysteriously of multiple cancers and theories are that he was injected with something (I will fix your rack if you take (out) Jack my dog), dog being spy slang for someone sent in to clear up a mess. Fanny was the name used disparagingly of Lee Harvey Oswald in the Moscow training school. I dare not write even 40 years later of Crazy Chester who set it all up, and caught them in the fog with this promise, but if you add up the numerological values of the letters and multiply the square root by pi, you will get BJL. Reverse that and you will have a clue. And what do you think a cannonball is? Some kind of frigging train or a high velocity assault weapon! And who do you think “caught” the cannonball? Finally, if you multiply the number of letters in the song by the geographical co-ordinates of Dallas, then divide by 11, you get “1963”.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 08:03:08 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

I was gonna post sumpin'... but it looks like there's enuff Dave's from MN in here lately... kinda freaks me out... so I'll go back to lurking... speaking of lurkers, what ever happen to those sandal-less travellin' girls?...


Entered at Fri Feb 21 07:57:21 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois (which includes Chicago) by way of Brockton, Mass and Calabria, Italia

Subject: Rocco, Freddo, Franko, Danko .. and Bill, too.

Bill: Massachusetts is the Bee Gee State as in their song of the same name.

Franko: I want to hear all about Rick Danko in Weymouth, Mass. About four years ago Levon Helm's name appeared along with Leon Russell's as coming attractions on the marque of a Brockton blues club that never opened. Go figure. Btw, my Uncle Artie cuts hair for $12 at the Court Square barber shop in Boston, if you need a trim or a glass of home made wine. Look on his wall for a photo taken of me with Pavarotti. Ever been to ristorante Lemoncello in the North End? Ohhhh, those scallops. Ma donn'! Thanks for the link to the Esquire article, btw.

Freddo (sorry, couldn't resist): I saw an HBO or TNN movie on Rocky Marciano (real schmaltzy) years ago, but it wasn't Paul Newman as the Brockton Blockbuster, dats for shoowah. My favorite Rocky quote: he's in an English pub and someone asks him to say a few words so he says, "I'm not good at makin' speeches, but I'll fight anybody in the joint!". There's also the fictionalized account of Rocky in Norman Mailer's novel "Tough Guys Don't Dance". The notorious New York gangster Frank Costello is holding court at the Copa Cabanna nightclub and his girlfriend is begging Frank to dance. One by one he asks the wise guys in his entourage to dance with his girl. Knowing better than to even put themselves in the postion of possibly making Costello jealous and getting their brains blown out, one by one the wise guys respectfully decline. The girlfriend persists and Costello relents. Upon returning to the table, the girl friend wants to dance again. Costello, frustrated and impatient, turns to Rocky, and says, "Hey Rock, would you dance with her, please?" Rocky says, "Naw, tough guys don't dance."

edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Fri Feb 21 07:14:34 CET 2003 from sttn-sh9-port72.snet.net (204.60.207.72)

Posted by:

Todd Atkinson

Location: Connecticut

Subject: JayHawks / Golden Smog

Hazy Davy: Thanks for the info on the boys from the Jayhawk's. It's nice to know that they are indeed Band fans. Interesting to know that they have had to do some house painting in order to make ends meet. I'm a freelance photographer, and I've been known to pick up a paintbrush from time to time.

I'll check out the Golden Smog. The Band is my first love, but it's always nice to see what's down that next fork in the road.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 04:39:45 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Subject: albums

Dave = from Webster's Dictionary =

"album - a recording or set of recordings containing musical selections, a complete play, or opera, etc., released on compact disc, phonograph record, cassette tape, or other medium."

record album - compact disc album - both albums.

Now you can sleep (I call them albums too :-))


Entered at Fri Feb 21 04:36:00 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Ed Voci: thank's for the family story. We're from the north, my maternal grandparents from Piemonte and my dad from Veneto. However my stepmother is part Sicilian and part Tuscan. You are certainly right about Sacco & Vanzetti getting shafted by the legal system! that's a good lesson about the evils of social hysteria and how it affects the rule of law (and due process, etc). By the way, what do you think Paul Newman's performance of Rocky Marciano? (it was Paul Newman right?!?)

Charlie Young: nice bit of info regarding 78s, 331/3s and the term album (I'll have to use that someday)


Entered at Fri Feb 21 04:15:58 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny

Subject: "Albums"

Dave: I could be wrong about this, but I believe that the term "album" pre-dates 33& 1/3 records and originally referred to those photo album-style storage books for multiple 78 r.p.m. discs. The 78s were essentially "singles" with only one song on each side, but the storage albums collected several songs. Apparently when 78s were phased out in favor of records that actually contained several songs, the term album was applied to them. I confess that this is mere trivia, but at least it isn't political...


Entered at Fri Feb 21 03:35:21 CET 2003 from 208.41.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.41.208)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Web: My link

Subject: Forthcoming Decontamination

The above link has me worried that the office of Homeland Security will soon eliminate all references to "French Girls" from this website...and then "Right As Rain"...and even "Acadian Driftwood"...


Entered at Fri Feb 21 03:02:53 CET 2003 from (12.40.177.18)

Posted by:

Dave

Location: Minnesota

Subject: A Brand New Day...

I got into the “Songwriting Credits” debate a while back, but I’m done with all of that now. So, here’s my random take on the music:

Don’t Do It from Rock of Ages is the best opening song of any live album (yes I still call them albums).

Rock of Ages is one of the top five live albums ever put out. (Waiting for Columbus and Springsteen Live at Winterland (bootleg) are two of the others)

Garth is a little strange.

People who listen to the Band and frequent the guestbook are of above average intelligence and take an active role in their lives.

I like Guitars Kissing and the Contemporary Fix better than the official Dylan ’66 issue.

At my wake, I want The Weight, It Makes No Difference, and Thunder Road sung by all in attendance, and no one should need a song sheet.

Peace to all.

Dave


Entered at Fri Feb 21 02:35:12 CET 2003 from pcp01420654pcs.lndsd101.pa.comcast.net (68.81.34.77)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA

Subject: Post Last Waltz Solo Jems

Favorite Dozen:

Between Trains

New Mexicoe

Fallen Angel

Unbound

Some Where Down Crazy River

Once Upon a time

Sweet Romance

Broken Arrow

Hold back the Dawn

Golden Feather

Soap Box Preacher

Don't Wait (Not a solo but I love it)


Entered at Fri Feb 21 02:24:14 CET 2003 from ns.hpedsb.on.ca (209.226.83.2)

Posted by:

Clay

Subject: Don't Wait

Anyone know the chords for "Don't Wait"? Thanks


Entered at Fri Feb 21 02:00:44 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

butch ( the real one )

Location: sold out

Subject: Lars

Hey Lars,,,,

sorry we became so popular,,,,heheheheh,,,,,remember those Joyous Lake wednesdays ???? ya coulda shot off a canon & only hit 20 folks,,,,

me & Levon never took a dime for those gigs,,, gave it all to patty, chris & frankie,,,,,,

but "look @ us now",,,,, sold -out with a 50 person waiting list,,,

i guess Levon CAN build a band, ey ???

a master craftsman,,,,,,,,,,,imo,,,,,,,,,

thanks for your loyalty , Lars,,,,,,,,,,no wonder rando likes you,, ya stonemason,,,,,,,


Entered at Fri Feb 21 01:59:59 CET 2003 from proxy1.dmzglobal.net (203.144.32.165)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: piano

For a bit of early Richard piano listen to his solo on Bably Let Me Follow You Down from Albert Hall. For an interesting splice listen to the beginning of The River Hymn. It's sounds like Garth (a forerunner of Little Islands)s and then the piano sound changes for the rest of the song which is Richard i guess.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 01:37:51 CET 2003 from dialin-1055-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.5.39)

Posted by:

Bill S

Location: Cold Sring, N.Y.

If anybody is interested the radio station WFUV will be playing The Band and Rory Block music 2/21 at 2:00 EST. The radio station is 90.7 or www.wfuv.org


Entered at Fri Feb 21 01:35:13 CET 2003 from pix53.gage.com (216.17.33.62)

Posted by:

Hazy Davy

Location: Minneapolis

Subject: J-Hawks

To all GBers and esp. Todd Atkinson: The members of the Jayhawks live up here, I painted a house with them one time about eight years ago (yes, they needed the money) and I can tell you they are huge fans of The Band. If you like The Jayhawks, or Son Volt or Wilco (or The Band, probably) you may also enjoy the first Golden Smog CD, "Weird Tales." Golden Smog is basically a pickup group with a rotating lineup consisting of folks from the Jayhawks, Wilco and a few other alt-country bands. They are particularly wonderful in concert; people like Paul Westerberg, and members of groups as diverse as the Lonesome Cowboys, Soul Asylum and Big Star wander onstage and play along. Gary Louris from the Jayhawks has played guitar on some Dylan songs, I believe.


Entered at Fri Feb 21 00:26:14 CET 2003 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.home.nl (212.120.101.7)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Holland, painter turns 150
Web: My link

Subject: art & struggle ..... (aka: don't give up, could be worse)

for your own benefit: ...... during his entire life Vincent van Gogh soled only one painting......(b.t.w. look at his paintings and notice he still talks to ya)

1889 bother Theo on Vincent:
"That head of his has been occupied with contemporary society's insoluble problems for so long, and he is still battling on with his good-heartedness and boundless energy. His efforts have not been in vain, but he will probably not live to see them come to fruition, for by the time people understand what he is saying in his paintings it will be too late. He is one of the most advanced painters and it is difficult to understand him, even for me who knows him so intimately. His ideas cover so much ground, examining what is humane and how one should look at the world, that one must first free oneself from anything remotely linked to convention to understand what he was trying to say, but I am sure he will be understood later on. It is just hard to say when."

GB justification:

1878 Vincent to Theo:
"How rich art is; if one can only remember what one has seen, one is never without food for thought or truly lonely, never alone."

may it comfort us all ......


Entered at Thu Feb 20 23:43:04 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Wow - a flurry of responses about Richard's piano parts. Thanks.

Pat = so that is Richard on "Dixie". I don't know why I assumed that was Garth (probably because Garth's musically billiant). That's very cool that it's Richard though. I guess it's just easy to assume that Garth's playing all the "choice" piano parts. That's why I asked you folks who know. It's seems obvious on those early Richard penned songs that it would be him, but "Dixie" was a pleasant surprise.

David Powell = you hit on one of the things that is part of the Band's greatness I think. They were very unselfish when it came to playing in a song. being a drummer myself, you have to know when you can show a little flash, and when to back off. If (I said "IF") Robbie has the bloated ego that some sources suggest he does, then he never let it get in the way when he played and recorded with the Band. Can you imagine a scenario like this =

GARTH - "Say Rob, I have an idea for a keyboard intro on "Chest Fever".

ROBBIE - "Yeah sure Garth, uhhh, I'm gonna play a wicked solo in the beginning. You need to ease up on those keys bud - it's taking over the sound from the guitar".

We wouldn't be enjoying this website today.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 23:12:00 CET 2003 from libstfstx03.library.uiuc.edu (130.126.34.238)

Posted by:

Susan

Location: Downstate, where the corn and beans grow free

Subject: Chicago

I've got nothing against Chicago - hey you people have to put up with the Bears every year, and we only had to deal with them and their fans last fall. My sympathies to anyone who lives near Soldier Field. I was just looking for something amusing to add to the location field and nothing profound occurred, so I fell back on the eternal regional split.

There seem to be plenty of Band fans in Chicago, and the rest of Illinois as well. Did any of you attend the Mississippi River Festival where Dylan joined the guys? I recently realized that I turned down a chance to go because I had to work the next day and could not face an all-night drive up. O I was so much older the, I'm younger than that now.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 23:10:45 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: Richard's piano

I think part of the allure of The Band's sound, at least in the early days, was that none of the members got in each other's way. In an era where excess seemed to be the norm, The Band showed restraint in their playing; instead of long jams, they illustrated that sometimes it's what you don't play that works best.

In the case of Richard & Garth, both playing keyboards on most songs, Richard's piano was a key component of the rhythm section along with Rick's bass & Levon's drums. While Rick & Levon laid back or accentuated the beat, Richard would maintain a steady rhythm. Garth, in turn, had plenty of space in which to inject his magic with his arsenal of electronics. In the beginning, Robbie's guitar leads were also economical & often rhythm-based.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 23:06:07 CET 2003 from h-68-164-10-21.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.10.21)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Richard's piano playing went from being the rhythmic focus of the group's sound to something of a cipher. Check out Grand Coulee Dam from the Guthrie tribute to see what a force he could be. Think of those early songs that were based on Richard's playing: Lonesome Suzie, We Can Talk, I Shall Be Released, Dixie (yep, that's Richard on piano), Stage Fright, Shape, etc. Then, Cahoots and not a lot. Moondog had a few things, but NLSC was guitar and Garth except for Rags and Bones.

I've loved Rainbow since the first time I heard it, but that's just me.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 23:02:16 CET 2003 from 1cust7.tnt20.dca5.da.uu.net (67.242.149.7)

Posted by:

BR

Location: no. va

Subject: magazine article

While reading, of all things, the Nature Conservancy magazine I ran across an article that I thought might be of mild interest to some of you. Between the Prickly Pear Cactus moth and the rice rat what caught my eye was a picture of the Dave Matthews Band. The article states that while the Dave Matthews Band may hope to leave its mark on rock 'n' history its footprint is another story. The band is taking measures to erase the carbon footprint it made during its last two tours by financing a Nature Conservancy reforestation project and supporting NativeEnergy a group that produces wind turbines for energy."

" According to the article, figuring in the emissions from the band's 21 trucks and buses, energy consumed at the tours' 67 shows, and the carbon production associated with flights and hotel stays, Dave Matthew's Band generated about 1,650 tons of carbon dioxide during a 50 city swing. To help mitigate those emissions, the band is paying for the planting of a least 400 trees in Albemerle Co., VA. as part of a joint project with the Nature Conservancy. "

" The bands project is part of a larger campaign spearheaded by ice cream makers Ben and Jerry and supported by Save the Environoment. The campaign called One Sweet Whirled is a spin on the band environmental anthem "One Sweet World" which calls on citizens to lobby for enviroment-friendly legislation. I also understand that Dave Matthews has endowed a wing for the local hospital."

" What does this have to do with The Band? I do not know but surely they have supported numerous worthy causes, most groups have at some time or another. The one that comes to mind most readily is the Greatful Dead. Fron early on in their existence they donated a portion of the proceeds to charity. "

" Peace, BR


Entered at Thu Feb 20 22:43:16 CET 2003 from tnt15a-196.chcg3.il.corecomm.net (216.214.209.196)

Posted by:

Paul

Location: Chicago

Susan, people from Chicago don't necessarily think we're in our own state, but I'll bet we act like it sometimes. Most of us do call the parts of Illinois outside of Chicago "downstate," even the parts that are northwest of us. ;)

Picking out one musician from another on a recording is a fun thing to do sometimes. Separating Keith from Mick Taylor, or Keith from Woody, on a Rolling Stones recording is something that's fairly easy. Separating a Bruce Springsteen solo from Steve Van Zandt or Nils Lofgren is a little tougher. I decided who was who on the recording of Murder Incorporated from Live at Madison Square, and when I saw the video I saw I whiffed entirely.

Garth from Richard gets a little easier after watching the Last Waltz. Once you get a sense of who was who on a few songs, you can start to guess at others. I assume if I hear an organ on a track, that any piano is Richard, or if it's definitely Levon on drums, that any piano is likely Richard. I don't know if this is always true, though, overdubs were probably pretty common. Richard's piano is also often low in the mix.

I remember Garth in an interview saying he didn't have "a heavy left hand" (don't remember the exact wording/context), probably implying that he wasn't the best man for the rocking R&B stuff. It's definitely Richard playing piano on such things as Slipping and Sliding, Don't Want to Hang Up My Rock and Roll Shoes, and trading solos with Robbie in Loving You is Sweeter than Ever. But Richard could get lyrical on Whispering Pines or Share Your Love, and Garth could honky tonk on Rag Mama Rag. Both of them were distinctive and versatile at the same time.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 22:33:23 CET 2003 from (12.151.114.40)

Posted by:

tony

Subject: tenement symphony, Richard's piano

Susan, wasn't that a Marx Bros. movie? (I can't remember which one it was, but I think the composer was played by Zeppo)

Recently I've been realizing more and more what a huge and underrated part of the Band's sound Richard's piano was.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 22:10:31 CET 2003 from libstfstx03.library.uiuc.edu (130.126.34.238)

Posted by:

Susan

Location: Illinois, the state also graced by the presence of Ed Voci and Pat Brennan, although they live in Chicago, which sometimes considers itself a state on its own

Subject: piano, post TLW

I tend to think that any piano part with a lot of scales-type bits is probably Garth, and that the strongly rhythmic bits with a lot of repeated chords is probably Richard, but there are a lot of songs where I'm not really sure who's playing what. A number of these are on Cahoots.

I'm surprised to see the Rainbow song of Robbie's appear on someone's best song list. That's one I have a real, possibly irrational dislike for. I lump it with that song on NLSC where he goes on about the sounds of the city. They both strike me as very cliched lyrically. Robbie can and does fall into lyric cliches from time to time and gets a little mushy, and these are worse to me than Peter V's bete noir. Rags and Bones, the song on NLSC, reminds me of a movie I saw years ago on tv. It's one of those show business films, and the climax is a performance of the leading man's great work, Tenement Symphony. It's played by a children's orchestra, and it's not really a symphony, either. The writer sings through-out, mostly about the sounds of the city and lots of repeats of 'My tenement symphony'. I can't hear Rags and Bones without that movie coming to mind.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 21:52:58 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny
Web: My link

Here's another link to the reunion story.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 21:48:36 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny still
Web: My link

Subject: Band - Beatles - Music

Pat = thanks. How about "Dixie"? I've always assumed that was Garth too - is that Richard?

Twilight = The link I posted last was for a Political Chatroom sight. I was hoping it would prove to be a happy place for the folks that wanted to get away from the music chat and argue about why they're right.....However, the link above should tell you about the threele reunion and more. There's also a cool picture of them playing together. Just when I thought that the Beatle treasure chest was empty, this cool stuff pops up.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 21:26:18 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

PUYD: That makes two of us!


Entered at Thu Feb 20 21:13:00 CET 2003 from h-69-3-221-104.chcgilgm.covad.net (69.3.221.104)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Bayou Sam, Stage Fright is definitely Richard on piano as is the electric piano opener to Shape I'm In. Garth didn't play a lot of piano with the Band. The Weight, Rag Mama Rag, Jemima Surrender, Time To Kill, Thinkin Out Loud and Smoke Signal from the first four albums. I haven't delved into Moondog the same way and NLSC is a whole different animal


Entered at Thu Feb 20 20:42:33 CET 2003 from (207.75.166.205)

Posted by:

twilight

Location: ann arbor, mi

Subject: simon&garfunkel

simon & garfunkel - back together again? stranger things have happened. looking forward to it. sam - the link on the beatles reunion thing didn't work for me. i'm interested in that as well - any other info would be appreciated. lastly- is that hubert sumlin disc out yet? somebody mentioned it and i would love to get a hold of it. thanks in advance.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 20:36:32 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Thanks Tony. I thought I'd get a couple of more reponses to my question. I'm glad you responded anyway. It's tough to get a musical thing in sideways these days in here.

wipeout1960 at yahoo.com


Entered at Thu Feb 20 20:29:26 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

PutYerDukes

Bill : can I assume that by your reference to "books schmooks" that you are saying that you don't believe everything you read? If so, I agree with that statement. The purpose of my including the fact that books have been written about this subject was so it would not appear that I was attempting to take credit as being the originator of that premise. However, i will say i always felt that before I read it anywhere. And when I say felt that , I mean deep down in my bones. And I am not postulating that you have to be American to like or feel the Band's music, or that the Americanness to wich I referred is the only thing to feel in their music. Or that you have to be American to feel the Americanness of their music, or any other uniqueness of their music. I will say that American covers and includes a unique and still evolving hybrid. The Americanness of what they were writing about is not something that 5 young men would so easily discern or be exposed totoday. In 40 to 50 years much has changed.

However, with regards to your question to me, all I can say is, if you don't hear it, or feel it, nothing I write will cause just that to occur. Although I have always felt that way about the Band, and do believe what I wrote on the point you are contesting about their sound, I do not care to write a long treatise. So I am not going to support my statement.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 20:29:00 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: You born great, you remain great

Please, read completely my last link on Amin Malouf biography, you'll find a definitive convincing answer to more than five topics recently debated without result in the GB (coincidently including music)


Entered at Thu Feb 20 20:02:29 CET 2003 from (12.151.114.40)

Posted by:

tony

Subject: Richard on piano

Bayou Sam, my rule of thumb is that if I can hear Garth's organ or accordion, it's Richard on piano; if not, it's probably Garth on piano, Richard on drums and Levon on 2nd guitar or mandolin. There may be a lot of exceptions to this rule, I dunno, but I think the piano on Stage Fright is definitely Richard.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 19:57:53 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia
Web: My link

Subject: Surrounded at Big Pink

I've been listening to the new DVD-audio version of "Music From Big Pink" (see above link). Although I don't have an advanced resolution DVD-A player, the standard surround-sound format through my regular DVD player sounds quite good, leaning towards the smoothness of analogue rather than the harshness of digital. The new re-mix brings some layers of instruments & vocals into the forefront that have previous been submerged in the darkness of the original mix. Garth's keyboards in particular are brought forward to shine sweetly in all their splendor.

The surround mix is not presented in too wide of a soundstage, but you do get a better sense of depth in the recording. The interplay in the vocals between Richard, Levon & Rick benefit from a more life-like presence. After a few listenings, my only reservation is that I detected some distortion in the sound, perhaps as a result of the levels on some of the tracks being pushed a tad too far.

The accompanying booklet has the same liner-notes as the recent Capitol CD reissue, although in a slightly larger format. The bonus tracks from the CD version, however, are not included. The video capabilities of the DVD format allow the inclusion of a photo gallery (with classic Elliott Landy shots) and a discography section. Lyrics are displayed on screen and advance as each song plays (I noted a few minor errors in the words).

All in all, I rather enjoy submerging myself in the surround-sound of the music as it drowns out the din of all the troubles of the political world outside. It's a good place to be, if only for a short while.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 19:48:40 CET 2003 from m198214176085.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.85)

Posted by:

Pehr

Subject: dave the phone guy

Nice story Dave the phone guy.

More Rick Danko Stories!


Entered at Thu Feb 20 19:38:42 CET 2003 from dny0.rrd.com (162.27.9.20)

Posted by:

Crazy Chester

Location: NYC

Subject: Not on the list

My favorites are WHAT ABOUT NOW? by Robbie and NEW MEXICOE by Rick. One of the worst, though, is the horrible MOVE TO JAPAN. I think Levon is responsible for that travesty.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 19:21:43 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

franko

Location: boston
Web: My link

ED V - back when I was a kid and still enjoyed boxing, Marvin (who I believe still lives in Italy) was my favorite. Should I tell all the GBers about my home town (where I last saw Rick play) of Weymouth?

This month's Esquire has an interesting article by Thomas P.M. Barnett re: how the administration now looks at the world and how US military strategy is evolving. The article (link) is on the authors web site, but for the maps and his comments on 19 trouble spots, you need to buy the magazine.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 19:20:09 CET 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Posted by:

Bones

Peter Viney: I'm not sure about top ten, but here are three great ones not on the list.

Sign Of The Rainbow (Robbie), Caves Of Jericho (Bell, Simon, Helm), All Creation (Danko, Andersen)


Entered at Thu Feb 20 19:17:44 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Location: out of America
Web: My link

Subject: American - if you disagree, email Amin Malouf

Amin Malouf, a great (Nobelizable) Franco-Lebanese writer in "Murderous Identities" (1998):

"I early felt that the Globalization means that all the peoples of the World will adopt the standards of life of America. I went in America to see from close what exactly the essence of this country is. I discovered that America is simply all the peoples of the World"


Entered at Thu Feb 20 19:01:22 CET 2003 from 56k-socal-00-22.dial.qnet.com (209.221.198.37)

Posted by:

Dave the Phone Guy

Subject: surprize read

I'm reading a book by Philip Toshio Sudo called 'Zen Guitar' which is about the process of making music,(creative mind) rather than a technique instruction.

There is a quote from Rick Danko on page 138 in the chapter on balance.The quote (with out researching Jan's library link)may be from a GuitarPlayer magazine article goes like this...

"I tried to play in front of the beat in a way that didn't rush it, or behind the beat in a way that didn't drag it".

It was fun to buy a new book and half-way through come upon a Rick Danko quote.This book was recomended to the students at that Robben Ford clinic I attended.I recomend it to anyone that may want to jump-start their practicing or get a fresh perspective on music-making.Actually, you don't even have to be a musician to get something out of this book.The ideas of Zen harmony carry-over to all aspects of life.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 19:01:08 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

EdV: What is the Bee Gee state? The one where all the guys have high voices or something?

Fred: A suggested minor addition to one of your posts: "Adjectives are where fuckin' it's at." As for your language post, it's a really nice thought that's easily grasped if you don't think too hard. It has its uses for sure, but language DOES get in the way of communication sometimes, doesn't it?

PUYD: How is the Band's "sound, lyrical style and reference, phenomenon, etc" "uniquely American"? Specific references are specifically American, but other specific references specifically aren't. Books shmooks - especially Marcus's.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 18:35:38 CET 2003 from dialup-65.58.222.254.dial1.portland1.level3.net (65.58.222.254)

Posted by:

Pete

John W. wrote "Pete - True, you never suggested the system should be thrown out. If you don't think it should be thrown out, I can't call you anti-American. But, you write, "if you apply Nuremburg standards, every post-WWII President would be hanged", and criticize the "brutal" domestic labor history. I just have trouble seeing an endorsement of America in these views... If things are as bad as you say, why in the world would you support such a horrible system?"

You can call me anti-American if you want, I really don't care, but again, I think you would find most people who understand how totalitarian thought works in relationship to freedom will find the term laughable. Judging from your defense of what constitutes loving one's country, clearly those who thought the government was wrong for supporting slavery opposed whatever those in power defined as America. Essentially anyone who opposes actions of government is opposed to everything tangible and abstract within the nation it seems. Why would we endorse these things though? Should I take it that you think slavery was a good idea up until the 13th amendment was ratified? Do you think up until 1917 (that date is off by a few years, I think--maybe up to 1921) or so women should not have been allowed to vote? Similar questions arise with civil rights, women's rights, the environmental movement; etc. I presume up until the point legislation was passed you think opposition to all of these issues was proper. After all, they were endorsed by the American government. More specifically, I take it you believe that in the interest of endorsing America, we should accept when our leaders commit human rights violations. In fact, I guess we should never question any authority, because, after all, it is authority, and thereby it should not be questioned.

I support none of these. I support making changes so that somewhere down the road future generations can live in a world where there is greater justice.

I am not sure why it is so difficult for you to separate what American civil society wants from what American government wants. The difference is crucial and demonstrable. If you are going to define America by the actions of its government, then I do not support it.

But I don't consider that America, and I don't consider it the American system. America is its people--its people fought for labor rights against a government that was opposed to it, and they still do, to use an earlier example. And they have used the democratic institutions of the American system to oppose injustice. Americans also have a long tradition of not supporting imperialist interventions, which is why we so often have to be lied to, as the current scenario with Iraq is showing.

That is the America I love. It has a system which is amendable to the will of the people, and it has helped produce people who have a keen instinct for when freedom is being trampled and who act on that instinct.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 18:32:37 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois by way of Calabria (Band link: Randy Ciarlante is of Calabrese heritage, too)

Subject: Fred, my roots, Randy Ciarlante and his Butch induced "agita"

Fred: All my grandparents born in southern Italy. 2 in Calabria, 1 Anzano di Puglia, and 1 near Salerno. Btw, I once spoke to Randy Ciarlante who told me he was Calabrese. He told me he had never been to Calabria and when I urged him to go, he told me he wanted to go to Cuba first to lean how to play that special drum used down there (sorry, I've forgotten the name for that Cuban drum and I'm even looking at one here as I write this). On the liner notes to "High On The Hog" I think, Randy thanks Butch for the "agita" which means "heartburn".

Anyhow, here's the fun part. My wife, Gina (who answered the treasured phone call from Levon), and I are originally from the Bee Gee State (I from Rocky Marciano's hometown of Brockton, more below), but never knew each other until we met in Chicago in the late '80s. She had studied in Florence and was very much in touch with her Italy family, also in Calabria. No one from my family had visited Calabria since my brother, Vinnie, had gone in the early '70's. I had put off my trip for various reasons. So, Gina says we gotta go and I of course agree. We get to Calabria and learn to our great and delighted surprise that my paternal grandmother's family and Gina's family are neighbors and good friends (different villages, but both had moved to the "big city", Catanzaro). If that's not enough, on the first day in Calabria, we're eating (ravioli stuffed with salmon..hmmmm)at the small ristorante/pensione owned by Gina's family on the shore at the foot of the mountain on which my ancestral village, Gasperina, is located. I was very excited about going there and finding my family. So, I was looking in the kitchen and said to Gina, "Jeez, those two women doing the cooking look a lot like Voci's." She tsk'd tsk'd me and said I was just excited about reconnecting with my family and that a lot of people in Calabria were dark complected and had facial strutures that would be familiar to me(by the way, folks, some Northern Italians refer derogatorily to Southern Italians as "arabs"). Not put off by that, I went into the kitchen and sure enough, the women were were Voci's. I've never heard the end of it from my mother-in-law ("Oh, HIS people worked for OUR people."). So, that's the story,or at least part of it. On to Brockton.

A lot of Italians emigrated to Brockton to work in its shoe factories. It was once said that half the Union Army wore shoes made in Brockton. (Recently a childhood friend sent me a hilarious song taped off of radio, "The Boots Were Made In Brcokton" set to the music of the Nancy Sinatra hit "These Boots Were Made for Walkin'" and sung, sort of--actually talked--by a regular guy with that a discenible southeastern Mass. accent.) In addition to boxing's only undefeated heavy weight world champion (49-0; with 43 k.o.'s), Brockton is also the hometown of former Middle Weight World Champ Marvin Hagler and World Wrist Wrestling champion Alan Turner who lived across the street from my Dads gas staton. Alan worked out for his matches by pulling against a garage door spring (!) that he had rigged up in his attic. My dad new Rocky in the 1950's and in the 1960's I knew worked on the car of Allie Columbo, The Rock's boyhood friend and trainer. In 1961 the robbery scene for the movie "Sacco and Vanzetti" with Joan Baez on the soundtrack was filmed in our neighborhood because it still had shoe facoties (the actual robbery took place in nearby Braintree which lost its factories) and of course we watched the filming. For the uninitated Sacco & Vanzetti were Italian immigants who executed by the Bee Bee state during the Red Scare of the 1920's for a payroll robbery/murder that they did not commit. The case of Sacco and Vanzetti attracted world wide attention and protest. Historians have debated the case for decades, but all agree that unfair prejudice against them for being foreigners and radicals infected the their trial which was grossly unfair. In essence they were murdered by the government because the were Italian anarchists. Vanzetti's letter to Sacco's son has become a heralded part of literature.

Btw, exstensive research has now dislcosed and conclusively proven that descendants of RR committed the robbery/murder and framed Sacco and Vanzetti.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 17:49:40 CET 2003 from 1cust1.tnt1.pocatello.id.da.uu.net (67.250.112.1)

Posted by:

Rollie

Subject: Cease fire! White flag! Truce! Make love /Not War! Uncle!

So,where are with this Levon/Robbie thing anyhow?


Entered at Thu Feb 20 17:25:08 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Pete - True, you never suggested the system should be thrown out. If you don't think it should be thrown out, I can't call you anti-American. But, you write, "if you apply Nuremburg standards, every post-WWII President would be hanged", and criticize the "brutal" domestic labor history. I just have trouble seeing an endorsement of America in these views... If things are as bad as you say, why in the world would you support such a horrible system?


Entered at Thu Feb 20 17:24:36 CET 2003 from dialup-209.246.67.66.dial1.newyork1.level3.net (209.246.67.66)

Posted by:

Ed Blayzor

Location: New York

Subject: Peter V.'s List

I would add to your list Peter:

Keep This Love Alive (Rick Danko & Eric Andersen)

Blues Codition(Jim Weider & Randy Ciarlante)

Deepest Cut(Jim Weider)

Little Island(Garth Hudson)


Entered at Thu Feb 20 17:14:09 CET 2003 from h-68-164-10-244.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.10.244)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

John W, no offense taken. What they right wing anti-Americans did was much worse than taking it to the streets. When they failed completely to garner public support for their charade--in effect, taking their argument public for debate where they lost miserably--they proceeded anyway, much to all of our mutual disadvantage. If anyone can argue that the country benefitted from the impeachment of Clinton, given what has ocurred since then, I'd advise therapy.

jtullfan, what, you don't like the Blasters?


Entered at Thu Feb 20 17:06:30 CET 2003 from dialup-65.58.221.113.dial1.portland1.level3.net (65.58.221.113)

Posted by:

Pete

Before moving on: "Between Trains".

John W. wrote "Pat, Rollie - Sorry, I was not trying to call you guys bigots personally. As I tried to say, patriotism is not owned by any particular ideology. If someone says the U.S. and its system and its people are a positive force in this world, but the President just has to go -- for the good of the country -- I respect their patriotism, whether we are talking about the anti-Clinton people a few years ago or the anti-Bush people today... But Pat, I don't remember the anti-Clinton people marching down the street holding up posters of Milosevic (the way they hold up Mullah Omar posters today). And Rollie, nobody says the U.S. is perfect, we have certainly backed terrible coups and assasinations, and there is plenty of corruption, but a patriotic American says these are bad things that must be rooted out in order to make it better. The difference is when we go beyond that and say the system is so corrupted that it must be thrown out like dirty bathwater, it's too far gone to be fixed. That's anti-Americanism, that's the sense I get from your postings. I think you have said a couple of times that you are not anti-American, if that's true then why don't you ever post anything positive about your country?"

What do you mean by the US system? If you mean people who fight for and preserve democratic ideals, who see those ideals as not distinct to Americans but to the world, then absolutely that is good. I have never said or written otherwise.

But that is rarely an example of our foreign policy which has absolutely no relation to domestic policy. Zero. If you were to apply Nuremberg standards every post-World War II President would be hanged, largely for crimes of aggression. That's not controversial unless you are going to enter into concepts of "victor's justice" where those who win cannot be held to the same standards as those who lose. But that is clear hypocrisy, and not something I would be proud to consider an American value, or a human value at that.

One might also note that domestic policy can often be brutal--a quick glance at labor history easily shows this, that the government was very clear that people should not have the right to organize in their own interests unless they own businesses. But people fought against that, and while still having a long way to go, we have made gains. That has nothing to do with benevolent government--governments don't grant powers; people fight for them, and on occasion they win.

I don't recall anyone referenced--me, Pat, Rollie--suggesting the system needs to be thrown out. If anything, it seems folks like George Bush, Dick Cheney, Bill Kristol (who was just on TV), Paul Wolfowitz, and those who stand for corporate values of profit over people values of freedom, want to see those values thrown out the door. That's exactly why they can call France and Germany at this moment as acting anti-democratically even as they are expressing the will of their people, while Spain and Italy are called pro-democratic as they ignore their people. After all, who cares what the people want?

I find the Mullah Omar poster comment telling as well. Of course it is ridiculous to hold up such a poster unless it is calling for the man to be put be captured and put on trial--a reasonable calling since the man like bin Laden has largely been forgotten. But what is the revulsion? That he was probably involved in the murder of 3,000 innocent people? How many equally innocent have been killed in Afghanistan (and continue to be raped and killed because of the new/old power we have installed)? How many innocent will be killed in Iraq (and have been by an illegal no-fly zone and the bombings which follow from purported violations)? If you find what Mullah Omar likely had a hand in so repulsive, as you should, why do you not find it so when it happens to other innocent people? That to me would be a much clearer cut showing of bigotry, although I would prefer to think there are other reasons such as ignorance (that's not meant to be a knock on you John--I still wonder why I don't feel as bad when I hear about some people dying as compared to others).

But the big question here seems to be just what anti-American means. Who defines this term? As far as I can discern the only American value one can really define is that people make decisions which affect them. That's limited, but it is the foundation of a democratic society which is our foundation. It also has the interesting feature that you are not anti-American if you oppose this because it must accept those views with which you do not agree. If you went to France and called someone anti-French, you'd likely get laughed out of the country--it's a concept that is ridiculous to anyone who has even a vague grasp on the difference between freedom and fascism.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 16:45:23 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

PutUpYerDukes, PutEmUp,PutEmUp

John W, I must strongly disagree with your definition of anti americanism. I define anti americanism as not liking the music created by the Band.

(That was meant to be funny, and I know my humorous position will be assailed on many grounds,4 members being Canadian, universal acceptance, music having no borders,etc. etc, but the Band was a uniquely American sound, lyrical style and reference, phenomenon, etc. Books have been written about this too.)


Entered at Thu Feb 20 16:10:05 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Pat, Rollie - Sorry, I was not trying to call you guys bigots personally. As I tried to say, patriotism is not owned by any particular ideology. If someone says the U.S. and its system and its people are a positive force in this world, but the President just has to go -- for the good of the country -- I respect their patriotism, whether we are talking about the anti-Clinton people a few years ago or the anti-Bush people today... But Pat, I don't remember the anti-Clinton people marching down the street holding up posters of Milosevic (the way they hold up Mullah Omar posters today). And Rollie, nobody says the U.S. is perfect, we have certainly backed terrible coups and assasinations, and there is plenty of corruption, but a patriotic American says these are bad things that must be rooted out in order to make it better. The difference is when we go beyond that and say the system is so corrupted that it must be thrown out like dirty bathwater, it's too far gone to be fixed. That's anti-Americanism, that's the sense I get from your postings. I think you have said a couple of times that you are not anti-American, if that's true then why don't you ever post anything positive about your country?


Entered at Thu Feb 20 15:48:17 CET 2003 from m198214176085.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.85)

Posted by:

pehr

Subject: Pat Brennan

Pat B: Hooray for your last post! This "Anti-American" stuff being put out by the Bush news agency FOX and their followers is typical hyperbole; it smacks of McCarthyism.

talk about "Bushit"

I'd like to add "Shake It", my favorite song on "Rick Danko" to the list of post TLW compositions.

BEG I enjoy the RR interview snippets you are finding.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 15:47:38 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: About language...

In the years since I've lived in this part of the world I have seen the English language mangled every which way. I thought I had seen it all....until today that is. Wrap your minds around this:

"I feel animals most friendly when animals approach me because well I am approach animals. but I think animals are friendly for me approaching from animals. And I am a happy."


Entered at Thu Feb 20 15:45:34 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

fiballu bolb

Location: lil ole canada

Subject: ed voci

maybe following a great american tradition e.g. dulles fruit story/guatamala, an airport can be named after robbie


Entered at Thu Feb 20 15:28:55 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

PutUpYerDukes,PutEmUp, PutEmUp

Richard : The world being what it is, full of beauty, ugliness, good, evil, laughter, tears, the explicable, the unexplicable, etc., i could go on, yet presented to most of us in a form where we have to deal with drudgery on a daily basis due to the necessity of paying bills, etc, the idea of providing just the facts is one that i believe to be rather tiresome. A little frivolity is something most people cherish in life. I find that the people who get off on just the facts usually are medical examiners and forensic scientists. Nothing against them, mind you, just an observation.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 15:12:20 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Deeb

Subject: Excuse me....am I reading this wrong

Levon Helm in his own book "This Wheel's on Fire" stated that he could not take the booing on the 1966 tour with Bob Dylan. So he pitches a fit, breaches his contract, abandons his bandmates in the middle of a tour, and goes back to Turkey Scratch, Arkansas and spends the next 6 months drinking, whoring, and playing cards till somebody is willing to hand him something on a silver platter.

Meanwhile...Rick,Garth,Richard and Robbie keep their word, play out the tour and come home. When Dylan breaks his leg, Albert Grossman gives the band the opportunity to cut their own record. Do they replace Levon, who left them high and dry? No...Robbie Robertson calls up and hands Levon the break he had been looking for all his life, on a silver platter. If it weren't for Robbie's loyalty Levon wouldn't have anything to bitch about in the first place.

Oh, by the way, he also states he had no desire to tour but wanted to stay in Woodstock and make music. This may be told from Levon's point of view, but it ain't what happened, brother-man.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 14:48:15 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: Pacifists where are you ?

while i am not a defender of peace for dictators, you stuffed the GB with pacifist slogans until i posted the most pacifist good song in the center of the topic. (i gived you and handicap in terms of steeple-chase). No feedback. Anyway

Peter, John D,......: there are politicos, musicos, you must add musico-politicos (those who politicy music) and politico-musicos (those who musicalize politics) i must admit through my career in GB tha t i belong to the 4th cathegory

btw...did anyone remarked in the superb clip of Hamid Baroudi und Die Dissidenten 'Caravan II Baghdad' that the word "Baghdad" written by tidying stones is more readible "Back Dad" ?


Entered at Thu Feb 20 14:43:33 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Ed Voci: I've been meaning to ask you this for a while....which part of Italy are your "people" from? Parents born there, or grandparents? Just being nosy before I head off to watch the late night news.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 14:25:24 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois (where LHO mail ordered his Italian rifle)

Subject: Oops, I forgot the witty remark, given above, in the "I'm from" section of my last post. Sorry.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 14:21:48 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Richard: adjectives are where it's at! So, is your China adventure over? How was it?


Entered at Thu Feb 20 14:20:06 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: Richard at length, Rollie on W.A. Phillips

Yo, Richard, the lengthy post you complained about contained long quotes from books by Bill Graham and Peter Fonda that I wanted to be part of the historical record here. You see, I lose sleep worrying about the year 4392 when space aliens find what I'm sure will be Jan's well preserved time capsule containing this Guestbook. We have a responsibility to leave those aliens the whole story. Btw, cracking the JFK assassination mystery is no small contribution, imho (you love these space saving cyber-abbreviations and contractions like "dontcha", dontcha?). Plus, I separate out responses by paragraphs, breakout the paragraphs by names of people I'm responding to, give brief descriptive subjects in the caption and add little witty remarks in the "I'm from" thing that Empty Now used to get a kick out of. Now, your tenacious aversion to adjectives is silly, goofy, supercilious, laughable, unsupportable, insufferable, incredulous, banal, one-dimensional, contrarian, dogmatic, intolerable, unkind, mean spirited, and an affront to linguistics. Now, where the hell is St. Catherines and what goes on there? :)

Rollie: I am a JFK assassination buff. Believe it or not, I have yet to look for any serious stuff out there on the Net. Is there anything worthwhile? I was impressed with your knowing about William Atlee Phillips. Do you have his novel? I intend to quote it in full on the GB just to piss off Richard. Al Edge has promised a lengthy review. :)

edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Thu Feb 20 13:04:59 CET 2003 from pc51-172.hiof.no (158.36.51.172)

Posted by:

jh

Subject: Testing...

...after adding meta-tags for the character set to the entire web site. Should work fine.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 12:46:43 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.149)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Subject: Ed

Ed Voci: That's the spirit Ed, no adjectives... just the facts.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 12:32:25 CET 2003 from 1cust132.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.132)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Johnny Paycheck

I just read the above piece (click link) on Johnny Paycheck - not exactly a totally great guy in my opinion. But who am I to judge? See what you think.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 08:35:07 CET 2003 from 1cust131.tnt1.pocatello.id.da.uu.net (67.250.112.131)

Posted by:

Rollie

Subject: Ed Voci

Damn Ed! Some mighty fine cipher'in on your part! Keep up the good work! By the way, the sooner those other guys figure out that I'm right and they're wrong , the better off we'll be!


Entered at Thu Feb 20 08:26:26 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

Long Distance Operator

Location: Name Dropping

Hey Pat, great gig hooking up with Alvin. Now that's rock and roll!


Entered at Thu Feb 20 08:10:05 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois (Jack Ruby's homestate)

Subject: Rollie, Lee Harvey Robertson

Yes, RR assassinated President John F. Kennedy. The Band's gig at Jack Ruby's "Skyline Lounge" was the connecting point for the conspirators and the hatching of the cover up that called for Jack Ruby to kill the patsy, Lee Harvery Oswald. Recently discovered bank records in Albert Grossman coffin indicate that Ruby paid The Hawks a huge fee for the poorly attended gig (featuring a one-armed Go-Go dancer whose role in the conspiracy was dating Secret Service agents and keeping them out late on Nov. 21, 1963)at which a fight broke out, not among the three people in the audience as the CIA would have us believe, but among the five members of the Hawks. RR kept most of the money for himself, claiming he had come up with all the ideas for the conspiracy and the other members of The Hawks were just in the room at the time. Levon was rejected as trigger man as was Lee Harvey Oswald since each of them (this is true and an interesting coincidence) had shot himself in the foot. Rick Danko was supposed to drive the getaway car, but got into four accidents on the way to the rendezvous site. In setting up Oswald as a commie pinko, The Band played a benefit in New Orleans with Bobby Charles for the Fair Play For Cuba Committee. Guy Bannister worked the door and let all right-wing Cubans in for free. Bill Graham promoted the show but never talked again to Fidel Castro who failed to thank him on the front page of Gramma and the Daily Worker. After the assassination, David Atlee Phillips, Oswald's CIA case officer, resumed his former identity as Sam Phillips of Sun Records and won a Grammy for producing the hit song, "I Shot The Sheriff, The Deuputy and Judy Campbell's Lover With One Magic Bullet" which was covered by Eric Clapton. Litigation between Phillips and RR over songwriting credits remains pending.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 07:27:39 CET 2003 from 1cust39.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.39)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Error Correction!

Whoops!! I meant the "Socialist Worker" - apologies to any social workers out there!


Entered at Thu Feb 20 07:22:40 CET 2003 from cache-ntc-ae10.proxy.aol.com (198.81.26.143)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Jet lag land

Just speed reading out here, and I almost missed Richard's apology. Richard: The very fact that you could even offer an apology out here elevates you above 99% of the GB. I accept it graciously in the context that you continue to challenge and disagree with me. We are all potential friends bound together by The Band's great music. We may disagree, sometimes bitterly. But we must never hate each other in the process. Bayou Sam: I saw that Threetles report too, and am very excited about it. Ed Voci: Think you thought I agreed to the wrong post; no matter. Pat Brennan: 'Bah'! to you last post. 'LA's fine but it ain't mine...' missing my home, wife, and two tuxedo cats.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 06:31:50 CET 2003 from 1cust47.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.47)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Terrorism

Interesting article (click above link) on terrorist group infiltration in Paris. Sorry, it's from CNN - the Social Worker and conspiracy sites had no mention of this story.

BTW eating Freedom Toast at the moment - mmmmm!!


Entered at Thu Feb 20 06:09:33 CET 2003 from dialup-65.56.133.114.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.56.133.114)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Although I've avoided these political threads, I did laugh out loud at this "anti-American" crap. What was the Clinton impeachment other than "anti-American," and attempt by a tiny political cadre to go completely against the stated will of the vast majority of Americans and try to remove a popular President from office for banal political motives? And let's not forget the prattlings of "wagging the dog" by those same numbskulls when Clinton tried to respond to bin Laden. "Anti-American?" Don't make me laugh.

Sorry for the political post. Today I got to record two songs with Dave Alvin from the Blasters for the next "Songs of the Hangman" project under the auspices of Jon Langford and the Pine Valley Cosmonauts. Dave is one compelling guy and it was a true pleasure accompanying him.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 05:43:28 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3613066.sympatico.ca (65.93.194.179)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

It's very telling to see how musically driven Robbie really was in the beginning and then something really changed in him after TLW....In Ian Wallis's book Robbie like so many talented and driven musicians see no limit.....

Robbie: One of these days I'm gonna be better than you, I'm gonna cut you. I'm gonna beat you.

Apparently Fred Carter turned his back so Robbie could no longer see his fingers while playing...The Hawk was amused trying to get Carter to face Robbie while he was taking a solo on stage.......Let's not forget that The Hawk also in the beginning thought that Elvis wasn't going to go far and when he was later asked to clarify he merely said that it was just youthful arrogance speaking....Ha, Ha, Ha......

During The Band's induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Robbie notes: "If it hadn't been for Albert, we'd probably be known as the Poughkeepsie Generation."

As with Dylan....The Band were able to maintain their vision and still gain respect and notoriety without compromising anything artistically but later it is Robbie again who is driven and astute to see that Grossman is no longer the man.....Now Geffen is the man.....In Fred Goodman's book he notes...."Geffen ultimately surmised that The Band's Robbie Robertson had Dylan's ear, and Robertson, until then a faithfull disciple of Albert Grossman's, could see that his new friend was far more driven than his old mentor. He immediately became a Geffen convert and passed the word along to Dylan........

Even if you believe Robbie to be a "Robster" as a Road Warrior likes to refer to Robbie.....He sure did a lot to make sure The Band was always in the public eye.....didn't he? I guess he was the one behind "Taking Care Of Business" even before Bachman Turner Overdrive recorded the song?

Post TLW Band Compositions

Unbound...Robbie...Native imagery with Robbie teasing us with his guitar brilliance

Making A Noise...Robbie...My anthem song in this GB and in my life where yes Ray...The personal is always political and all of us have our biases...Anyone who says they're neutral on any topic are either unaware of their biases or dishonest...My absolute fave Robbie song.....As soon as I hear this song my body moves (the rhythms transport you to a dance floor or a pow wow).....my spirt lifts and I know "You can bet your ass I won't go quietly...Makin' A Noise In This World"......My only disappointment was when Robbie shared this song with the world at The Olympics and he changed the overt political lyrics.....I wanted to also hear...."This is the kind of silence that frightens white men"..........But I have the two songs that he did perform live videotaped..........I was literally "high" for days after I saw for the very first time Robbie actually singing his own compositions...........It was also such a thrill to see him perform live 'cause I know he rarely does this anymore......And then.....wouldn't ya know it....At the very end of the song Robbie starts to let loose with a wah-wah lick but just as soon as you're getting into it......The song is finished.....

In The Blood...Robbie...Robbie comes clean and again....little snippets of his guitar elegance but he merely teases.....but you know and he knows.....that he could dazzle all of us once again....but he chooses to be subtle and make us yearn for more..........Let's also hope that songwriting is still in his blood.....

Carry Me...Robbie...Robbie shows his spirituality....He sings this song like a prayer....

I like Robbie's singing and post LW writing so I never lost Robbie as a guitarist/songwriter/singer..........The very last thing I said to Robbie when I met him at the Dana Glover Event was....."Keep Makin' A Noise Robbie!".....


Entered at Thu Feb 20 05:05:42 CET 2003 from hvc-24-161-21-18.hvc.rr.com (24.161.21.18)

Posted by:

Lars

Location: Pine Bush, NY (the Hotcake capital of Ulster County)

Subject: Barnburners 2/22

For any of you hoping to see the Barnburner's at Bodle's (Chester,NY) on Sat, 2/22: I was just told by their management that it's a sell-out with 50 people on the waiting list. I guess they've become so hot that you have to reserve EARLY and then hope you get lucky.

Sorry, Joe. Maybe some other time.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 04:40:07 CET 2003 from 216.158.64.43.dragonbbs.com (216.158.64.43)

Posted by:

Stephen L. Garen

Subject: Correction

Johnny Paycheck's birthday was 2 days after mine, May 31. Typo.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 04:33:25 CET 2003 from 216.158.64.43.dragonbbs.com (216.158.64.43)

Posted by:

Stephen L. Garen

Subject: meaning

I meant to say Sunnyside Inn was the same bar my band at the time played in during 1987/88.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 04:31:04 CET 2003 from 216.158.64.43.dragonbbs.com (216.158.64.43)

Posted by:

Stephen L. Garen

Location: Wilmington, Clinton Co. Ohio

Subject: RIP Johnny Paycheck

Sorry to hear of Johnny's death. Ironically I live near his hometown, Greenfield Ohio, was born one day prior to his birthdate yet of a differing year, May 29, 1969 in Hillsboro Highland Co. Ohio, and have met his relative, Jeff Lytle, who played the same bar, Sunnyside Inn, near Hillsboro in Allensburg. Played music in the same bar,one to two weeks prior to Johnny Paycheck got in trouble nicking a man whith a shot from a pistol, at the now demolished North High Lounge in Hillsboro. My father is from Greenfield, might possibly have known Johnny as they are around the same age, and my mother is from West Virginia, two places Johnny had a connection to. I was raised on some of his albums and 45's as a child,'Mr. Lovemaker' and 'Take This Job...' being just a couple. So I feel a loss at being from the same county and area as Johnny. My condolences to his fans and family. Stephen L. Garen~Wilmington, Clinton Co. Ohio


Entered at Thu Feb 20 03:16:59 CET 2003 from 1cust183.tnt48.lax3.da.uu.net (63.10.242.183)

Posted by:

Tim(SUNDOG)Corcoran

Location: Las Vegas
Web: My link

Subject: __RIP Johnny Paycheck--


Entered at Thu Feb 20 03:14:50 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

the REAL one

Subject: stealing MY name-butch

since ive never had "a link",,,, you might realise it aint my post,,,,

just an a-hole tryin to be me ???

we ALL know there are only two jerks that would do this,,,

childish crap,,,

id LOVE to reach thru here & yank you by your chicken neck,,,,,,,but karma will get you,,,,


Entered at Thu Feb 20 01:56:47 CET 2003 from 208.41.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.41.208)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Web: My link

Subject: You want fries with that?

Maybe, so long as they are in keeping with the spirit of the times...

how can we be expected to keep politics (i.e., life and death) out of the GB when some folks won't keep it out of their menus? (see the link!)

I'm going back to compiling a list of Band and solo Band songs we can't discuss because of the resistance to political discussion...it's a big job!



Entered at Thu Feb 20 01:46:49 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

Joe

Subject: Bruce Bruno

Nice to see Bruce Bruno mentioned 3 times in one week (4 times counting mine)here in the GB. As most of you know, he's one of the guys from back in the day. He has an 8x10 picture of the Hawks and himself hanging in his den. It's the promo picture of the Hawks lined up in suits striking a chorus line type pose. Only difference is Bruce is included in the line. I remember when Bruce first signed with Roulette just before he met Ronnie Hawkins. He was the talk of the neighborhood. Good man, good family. Still like that today.


Entered at Thu Feb 20 01:46:54 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: Other Post TLW solo gems

New Mexicoe-Rick
Small Town Talk - Rick
Rattlebone -RR
Resurection(Burnin' For You) - RR


Entered at Thu Feb 20 01:43:04 CET 2003 from ip68-12-52-145.tu.ok.cox.net (68.12.52.145)

Posted by:

Butch

Location: USA
Web: My link

Try to burst a bubble please http://www.bubblebucks.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?752136


Entered at Thu Feb 20 00:36:51 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Deeb

Subject: Times Like These

So if Rick could see it...why can't Levon?


Entered at Wed Feb 19 23:55:32 CET 2003 from ip68-1-132-20.mc.at.cox.net (68.1.132.20)

Posted by:

daspoo

Location: USA
Web: My link

Nice site


Entered at Wed Feb 19 23:29:51 CET 2003 from lab22.lrc.swt.edu (147.26.108.176)

Posted by:

Pehr

Subject: various...

I dont have Cable TV now because I watch too much tv anyway, but enjopyed David Powell's last couple of posts as always, that this character in "The Soprano's" might be based on Mo Levy (was that his name, the roulette guy?) I love Levon's story about the ringing telephone and the footswitch that set it off to help him control negotiations...

"Excuse me...Just a sec... HellO? You Again?!! The answer is NO!!!--

what were we talkinabout?.."

anyone here know how to rig up one of those? what a great character.

A story has it Danny Gatton had a footswitch that looked like a guitar pedal but actually was designed to end shows early by blowin out the electricity in the club- click! darkness and silence- sorry folks we hate to pack up, but-

Life is short& breathing is fun.

Hang in there.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 23:07:12 CET 2003 from 1cust7.tnt1.pocatello.id.da.uu.net (67.250.112.7)

Posted by:

Rollie

Subject: you know

JW- You called me a bigot, when in reality ,all I did was direct your attention to an article from a person who has served his country(for better or worse) and has some thoughts on the current state of terrorism. You never, address basic facts, such as David Atlee Phillips , former CIA station chief in Mexico, own admissions as to the participation of the CIA in coups around the world. (Take note Brien SZ).Phillips has also admitted, as a matter of public record, that information regarding Lee Harvey Oswald , was manufactured by the CIA. Henry Kissinger cannot travel in many countries , because he is a war criminal who would be arrested on the spot, for his role in Cambodia , and the murders of thousands in Central America. These are well documented facts. But you never address these issues. Just condemn those who question the actions of "their' government. Allen Dulles,former CIA director, admitted, as a matter of Congressional record(look it up before you accuse me of bigotry)that the U-2 spy plane was never shot down. J Edgar Hoovers own memos show a campaingdirected against Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement. So much for freedom of speech in this country. If it is your contention that I am still a bigot, then be prepared to prove me wrong by addressing these very stated issues . But be very careful with the garbage you sling around in here.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 23:01:09 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.80)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Times Like These

I cast my vote for Rick's title track "Times Like These". In retrospect it seems a gift from Rick to remind us all that pulling together is the only way out of these troubled times. A beautiful and poignant song.

Thanks Rick.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 22:58:21 CET 2003 from (204.60.53.128)

Posted by:

Todd Atkinson

Location: Connecticut

Subject: Jayhawks

David, Thanks for the info on the Jayhawks. I actually have all of Wilco's albums, and am really looking forward to the Uncle Tupelo reissues. I will check out the Joe Henry albums.

I find it very encouraging that there are still musicians out there who have been influenced by The Band, and are carrying the torch, and making music that matters.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 22:47:22 CET 2003 from du-tele3-129.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.129)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: To the lists …

The politicos will accuse the musicos of fiddling while Rome burns. The musicos will point to the ten e-mails we get a day on the current situation and say there’s got to be room for music. Well, here’s some hawking of fiddles as a respite from conflaguration. Lists sell fiddles. What are the ten best compositions by Band members since TLW? Here’s my vote -

Fallen Angel- Robbie Robertson
Somewhere Down the Crazy River – Robbie Robertson
French Girls – Garth Hudson
Breaking The Rules – Robbie Robertson
Soap Box Preacher – Robbie Robertson
Between Trains - Robbie Robertson
The Breakers – Garth Hudson
Driftin’ Away – Rick Danko / Eric Anderson
Golden Feather – Robbie Robertson
Ghost Dance – Robbie Robertson
n OK, any other versions?


Entered at Wed Feb 19 22:25:00 CET 2003 from dialup-64.158.84.50.dial1.buffalo1.level3.net (64.158.84.50)

Posted by:

G-Man

Subject: Cure for New England Snow

Jim Weider Band will be playing at B B King's at the Foxwood Casinothis weekend!! Ya know the music will be hot enough to melt the snow!! Hope we can catch some Road Warriors there????????


Entered at Wed Feb 19 22:02:31 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Ilinois (where attention spans exceed one page and all nuns are single)

Subject: The Gourds cover The Band

The Gourds are considering covers from The Band's catalogue. With much goading and gourding, I have extracted an indication that Rag Mama Rag (perfect for the Gdz) might be performed at their Abbey Pub show in Chicago on March 28th. They also indicated they wanted to do other covers. I told The Gourds I would consult with folks here for other ideas. So, Guestbookers, would you be so kind as to post your suggestions from The Band's catalouge for this phenomenal roots music group to cover? The Gourds's shows are almost always taped and uploaded to a server open to all. So you may be able to hear some of our favorite songs by a new and refreshing group.

edwardvoci@aol.com

JtullFan: "Ed V., Yikes I'm w/ crabgrass!", I think you said about Crab's crack re Italians, the mafia and Mussolini. Chill. :)


Entered at Wed Feb 19 21:55:50 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Okay. So who is coming to see Levon and the Barn Burners on Friday in New York? Let's schedule a Guestbook Get Together.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 21:55:08 CET 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Posted by:

Bones

I leave to go on vacation for a week, and I clearly have not missed anything here........The feud and politics. URGHHHH!!

I was hoping that John Simon's take on the Band's songwriting situation would end all of this. If you have not read this and you think Robbie was NOT the chief songwriter in the group, please do so. Even Levon up until the late eighties, referred to Robbie as the main songwriter. Like John said, it would have been great if the credits were listed as "lyrics by Robbie Robertson, music by the Band", but even that would not be totally accurate since in most cases Robbie had the basic chord changes done. John Simon said that in the late sixties/early seventies the one who writes the lyrics and basic song structure would get sole writing credits. I think it is great that groups like U2 and REM share royalties for the arraingement of the songs, but more often than not, this was not done during the Band's time.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 21:31:49 CET 2003 from 1cust203.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.203)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Clamorers

Uh, oh!! I see the "music clamorers" are springing up again clamoring for discussions of music instead of politics typically without bothering to contribute any possible topics and apparently ignoring recent posts concerning music.

The Guestbook happens to be interactive - in case some haven't noticed - and is affected by those who contribute something to it rather than being merely a vehicle to provide reading entertainment and escape for those too lazy to contribute anything.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 21:15:43 CET 2003 from snyflcj.flcc.edu (192.156.234.137)

Posted by:

Pepote rouge

Location: NY

Id have to say...whispering Pines...The Rumor...Loving you is sweeter are great songs that feature Richards playing. I really like Jawbone...i think its Richard...you can usuually tell because of that banging rock and roll drum like feel he gets. Very underrated. Richard does'nt get his due as a great boogie piano player.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 21:02:42 CET 2003 from stjhts21c003.nbnet.nb.ca (198.164.98.8)

Posted by:

WS Walcott

I think I will stay away until people get back to the music. All the other stuff I can see on the news or read in the paper. I come here to get away from all that. Lets stick to the music.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 20:42:51 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: Jayhawks

Todd: The Jayhawks are similar in style to Uncle Tupelo and its offspring (Son Volt, Wilco & Jay Farrar solo), although all seem to be searching for new avenues beyond country-rock. I would also recommend two of Joe Henry's albums which featured various members of the Jayhawks, "Short Man's Room" (1992) and "Kindness of the World" (1993).


Entered at Wed Feb 19 20:07:38 CET 2003 from 67.217.252.64.snet.net (64.252.217.67)

Posted by:

Todd Atkinson

Location: Connecticut

Subject: The Jayhawks

I just picked up The Jayhawks "Hollywood Town Hall." I have just given it a quick listen, and can hear a definite "Band" influence. Question: Does anyone here remember a comment that Levon thought that this was the best album of 1992, or am I confusing this with another album? Any info would be appreciated.

Also, do the Jayhawks have any connection with Uncle Tupelo or Son Volt other than musical similarities?


Entered at Wed Feb 19 20:02:01 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Subject: the Band's piano player

I was just wondering - what Band songs feature the piano playing of Richard. For instance, is that him on the intro to "Stagefright"? The way Garth is able to switch so seamlessly from keyboard to keyboard it's easy to assume that he's playing the bulk of the keyboard parts. I know Garth is doing the great stuff on "Rag Mama Rag", which Richard plays fabulous drums on. I just wondered if some of you folks could through an informal list out of Richard piano highlights.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 19:53:46 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

JohnD: Good thing I knew you were joking - that penultimate sentence would have lunatized me otherwise. As for the fence around Osgoode Hall, the story I've heard - and which makes sense if you consider the very odd gates - is that it was built to keep the neighbourhood's flap-bearing cows off the hallowed grounds, which were intended to accommodate lawyers. (Insert joke here.)


Entered at Wed Feb 19 19:51:40 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

John D. - I will defend my use of the word bigotry as far as it pertains to prejudice. One does not have to love the current policies of one's current government in order to love one's country. Anti-Bush administration sentiments does not make a person anti-American. But calling the U.S. a terrorist entity, malignant to the rest of the world, brutally dominating and environmentally destructive and completely profit- and militarily- motivated... That's prejudiced thinking, it goes against any administration we have ever had, it's prejudiced and that's why I said bigotry.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 19:40:47 CET 2003 from dialup-65.58.220.198.dial1.portland1.level3.net (65.58.220.198)

Posted by:

Pete

John W. wrote, "Pete, I am a bit confused with your references to "our government". If you really feel this way about America and Americans, how can you stand to consider yourself a part of it? With Americans like you, we don't need to worry about Schroeder, Chirac or Sadaam. They can sit by and watch people like you weaken the U.S. from the inside."

As I made at least half clear, our government does not often represent the will of the people. As a commission noted in the early 1970s regarding the civil rights movements and Vietnam War protests, when people actually demand that their government represent them and then take action, this is a "crisis of democracy." So when those outside the elite sources of power actually use democratic institutions, that's bad.

As is I stand to consider myself part of my government because I take responsibility for my actions and inactions in putting people in power. And while I don't think we can fully stave off this war, I take great pride when I walk with Americans who have staved it off far longer than our government had hoped.

Your comments sound suspiciously culled from Stalinist archives, something along the lines of how if you don't like it here you should leave. Those outside of totalitarian circles have long understood that in a democratic society if you find action unprincipled you work with others for change. Hardly confusing, I think.

But one who would equate Sadaam with Schroeder and Chirac, especially right now, is courting Orwell. Hardly are these leaders perfect--I think someone earlier noted how Chirac was opposed to Eastern European countries supporting the US. His words I think were "they should know better." That's not surprising language for sure, especially since western Europe represents cheap labor for western Europe. But at least on the issue of this war, Chirac is for the moment listening to what the people of France want. Schroeder is doing the same. Sadaam clearly does not care about what his people think. Your analogy once again proves an interesting idea but has no relationship to reality.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 19:39:21 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: The Post Which You Have Just Read is Meant To Be Humerous


Entered at Wed Feb 19 19:37:46 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: THE NEW GUESTBOOK BY ANNE ELK

After thinking things over the last few minutes after reading E N's comments and also thinking back about all the things that people dislike about the Guestbook I have arrived at a cold solution.

This would involve a little work from Jan and then it would be done. First you would no longer log onto a general guestbook such as this one. Jan would create another "Main" page; or a "doorway" if you wish. At the top of the page there would be the following names; with probably a picture of the following.

Levon Helm & The Barnburners
Robbie Robertson
Garth Hudson
And lastly I would put Rick and Richard in the same heading.

You would click on whichever name you would like. In that guestbook you could only talk about the Barnburners; or Robbie; or Garth; or Rick and Richard.

There would not be a general "Band" link to click because politics or "not related material could rear it's ugly head. That way it would only be about the music of that artist. Only about members of The Band and no room for any other thought that seems to anger so many who come here. Sorry no room for "The New Band" post Robbie. Too much work! There you go. A perfect world for many. Sadly I would NOT like it; but I am in the minority when it comes to talking about things like........say The Beatles, Clapton etc. who are not members of The original 5. Very sanitary...very thread like. Would make most of you happy.

p.s. Also a link for The Hawks; but no talk about the Dylan period because it might bring up publishing or political thought. Boring as hell; but good for all of you who have never learn't just to scan by what doesn't interest you and believe me there is a lot in here some day's that does not interest me; but I don't complain about it.

And now for something completely different.....Serge who will be moderating the Canadian Squires section with Bill Munson :-) The Bruce Bruno room will not be open for awhile yet; as it is be re-decorated. Lil is looking for new curtains.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 19:17:15 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: John D

Sorry John, i posted before seiing your post, watch the post times. I just emmited an opinion THANKS TO JAN


Entered at Wed Feb 19 18:55:16 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: E N

Stop politics in the GB. What would you call the on going feud talk? Now that's politics. Taking sides within a group we all love. Now that's politics. When Jan decrees that some subjects are not welcome here; then they should stop. I guess we shouldn't talk about "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down"....it's about the Civil war. That's political is it not? Personally I would rather talk music; but thankfully we can stretch our opinions about love, life and all things thanks to Jan.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 18:50:04 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: John W Rollie & Pete

Just typing this I know I'm going to get in trouble; but here goes. I've noticed John W you are using the word "Bigotry" when it comes to Pete and Rollie's comments about the U.S. It reminds me of the bumper sticker from the sixties that said, "Love It Or Leave It." I would love to think that in a great democracy such as the United States that all "thoughts" are worth hearing. The use of the word "Bigot" is over used. In other words what you are saying is that if they don't agree with your way of thinking they are bigots. That is dangerous. It is taking away there right to think and speak. You don't have to agree; but I believe your use of the word is incorrect on this subject.

It's like the "going" term today, "Anti-American." What does that mean? Does it mean you are against every man woman and child in the United States........OR does it mean you don't agree with Goverment Policy. Many Americans died for the right for people to talk openly. Calling people names like "Bigot" is just a way of attempting to shut people up and that's just not right in a democracy. And no I don't think you can scream "fire" in a movie theater. Just a thought.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 18:35:06 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Dont worry Sam, politics started with Saturday marches, let us organize one march to stop politics in GB


Entered at Wed Feb 19 18:34:02 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Location: Toronto

Subject: Gods & Generals

This was a piece in the Toronto Star today regarding the premiere of "Gods & Generals" which opens tonight. I was very interested to find out that there was an American Civil War Historical Re-enactment Society in Ontario. This is an article from today's Toronto Star. Interesting to note that 50,000 Canadians signed up to fight in that war for the Union Side.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mary Sinclair was pleasantly surprised when she got a call from Dave Carney.

Sinclair is the director of marketing for Warner Bros. Canada, which is releasing the Civil War film Gods And Generals this Friday.

Aside from being a police officer, Carney belongs to the American Civil War Historical Re-enactment Society, based in southwest Ontario. The society wanted to help promote the film, particularly since some of them traveled to Gettysburg, for the filming. Some, like Carney, even got to be in it. (If you go to Warner's Web site and click on the Gods And Generals game, Carney's is the first image you see).

Together, the society and the big Hollywood film company decided that a parade down University Ave. winding up at the Paramount Theatre for tonight's advanced screening would be best. The society often acts out battle scenes in open spaces, but decided on a parade because of the snow.

The film is based on Jeff Shaara's best-selling novel. Aside from Jeff Daniels and Robert Duvall as Robert E. Lee, it features more than 7,500 professional battlefield "re-enactors."

The society stages mock battles but also recreates the everyday lives of soldiers. They're not professional, but they're dedicated, Sinclair said.

"They're very proud of what they do and they come from all walks of life. They just do regular jobs and this is their hobby."

The parade route was chosen because it's the most direct way to the theatre, but there is some history involved, Sinclair said. "It's not historically proven, but the fence in front of Osgoode Hall was built to keep out the Confederate soldiers, had they in fact won the Civil War. And Campbell House on the other side of University Ave. at Queen St. is from the same era."

About 50,000 Canadians enlisted in the Civil War to fight for the Union. Four Canadians attained the rank of General in the Union service, and 29 were awarded the medal of honour. Some also fought for the Confederacy.

Warner Bros. isn't paying the society for the parade, Sinclair said. "They're terribly dedicated to this cause," she laughed. And there was no need to provide them with costumes since the society members made them themselves.

The society also helped promote the 1993 Civil War film Gettysburg, Sinclair said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At a time when war looms in the horizon once again I found it reassuring that both countries worked well together during that period. The fact that we sit on the fence now does not sit well with me anymore. In the end Canada will join the U.S. in what will; in all probability happen. Our government should stop whining about it. It's pissing off to many Americans and many Canadians feel we should be on side with the U.S. right now as Britain has been. I do not agree with war; unless it is a last resort; but the more I think about it there was a man named Adolph who once said, "Just give me Czechoslovakia.....that's all." The rest is history.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 18:29:24 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny
Web: My link

I read some very exciting news for Beatles fans today in the paper. An hour long DVD is coming out in March on the reunion jam that happened in 1994 with Paul, George, and Ringo while working on the Anthology project. It so nice to see these guys going in to their golden years,(and in George's case, his death) getting past the bad stuff and loving each other again. It's sad that John could'nt have been there.........Also, Paul is starting a world tour

I've stayed away from the GB (did ya miss me) for some days now hoping that the political sqaubbling that I felt I started, UNINTENTIONALLY, would die down. Unfortunately it hasn't. I apologise again to those who come here to talk about The Band, and music.

Since I can't go back and NOT post what I posted - I'll ask you political debate fans to show some respect for Jan, and why he set up this site, and click on the above link. It will put you in more of a place for what you need than this site. Thanks.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 18:16:21 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Pete, I am a bit confused with your references to "our government". If you really feel this way about America and Americans, how can you stand to consider yourself a part of it? With Americans like you, we don't need to worry about Schroeder, Chirac or Sadaam. They can sit by and watch people like you weaken the U.S. from the inside.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 17:52:35 CET 2003 from dialup-65.58.0.16.dial1.portland1.level3.net (65.58.0.16)

Posted by:

Pete

John W. wrote, "Reading the posts and links from Pete and Rollie, I am amazed that anyone could post such anti-American BIGOTRY. So, Rollie, your link quotes a jerk who says America is hated not because it stands for democracy, freedom, and human rights; but because it stands for dictatorship, bondage, and human exploitation. Pete excuses anti-American terrorism, saying we have brought it upon ourselves with our own terrible actions. I never thought a Band guestbook would be a platform for such bigotry. This stuff goes beyond regular politics in which decent people can disagree. This is just mindless anti-American bigotry. So if you are not opposed to seeing it on this web site, please don't ever complain about any other bigoted statements you might see. Unless you think "anti-American bigotry is OK, it's just other kinds of bigotry that's bad"."

Interesting ideas, however, far from reality. I never excused terrorism; I find all terrorism wrong. That's simple ethics 101: if you declare something wrong for others, then it should be wrong for you. For biblical folks, those who didn't apply such standards Jesus called hypocrites. The 3,000 people who were murdered in the World Trade Center are victims, but they were hardly unique. As much of the Central American press noted on September 12th, it was horrible, but Central Americans have experienced far greater horrors because of the United States. Maybe they are bigots as well because they seemingly understand this fundamental moral truism.

However more interesting is John W.'s idea of being "anti-American." What was the biggest crime in Stalin's Russia? Being anti-Soviet. You will find similar patterns in totalitarian states. Only people who have lost any idea of democratic ideals, could even consider such totalitarian terms seriously. Then again our leaders have declared the French and German governments anti-democracy when the majority of their people oppose war and other European governments pro-democracy when they igonore such popular sentiments. And yesterday Bush said he does not care what Americans think about the war. Again, another lesson in how totalitarian minds operate.

As far as the United States being pro-dictatorship, bondage, and exploitation, depending on what you mean, it is true. If the United States is the people, it's largely not which is why our government often operates "underground"--see our role in Latin America in the 1980s and Turkey in the 1990s (for the former, particularly Nicaragua, the United States remains the only country to be both condemned by the World Court for terrorism and, more indicative of our government, to veto an anti-terrorism resolution at the United Nations).

Of course when facts are indefensible, some will go with attacks on the person which have nothing to do with debating the ideas, as John W.'s previous words show.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 17:31:22 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.81)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Just catching up after few days off. Unfortunately, I had to scroll by rivers of text by Al Edge (aka Wanker) and Ed Voci, that were just too long to hold my attention. (Hint: Hey, you guys, try writing without adjectives).

Pehr: Yours has got to be the best post I’ve seen in the GB in the last month or two… and I think it bares repeating…

“Well gee, John W., my suggestion is that we keep him tied up with inspections since that seems to keep him under wraps and find something, or make a better case to rest the world. It seems to have kept him too busy to do anything thus far, and we avoid a clash with the Muslim world Bin Laden & Co. are egging us toward. Meanwhile, Mr. Bush could "Lead with Humility" as he promised he would when he was handed the office, instead of telling vast throes of people and entire countries that they are "Irrelevant".

J. Tull Fan: My humble apologies. I had no reason to cuss you out OR your community. Please excuse me, I was angry.

Diamond Lil: Thank you for your sensible advise.

Al Edge: Now, if a thousand monkeys typed on a thousand typewriters…


Entered at Wed Feb 19 17:32:51 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

A type error in Craig Harris review on Hamid Baroudi, the 3d Album is not "fire" but "five" (link). His logo, a hand with 5 fingers, in his believe are the 5 continents, the 5 religions, the 5 races.....unified for well, peace and hapiness


Entered at Wed Feb 19 17:12:41 CET 2003 from 24-197-165-58.charterga.net (24.197.165.58)

Posted by:

Don Pugatch

Location: Roswell, Ga
Web: My link

Subject: Mountain Stage

This Friday, at 2:00 PM, WFUV does their Mountain Stage broadcast and it will be the replay of the 1996 concert with The Band, and Cassandra Wilson. Having heard this concert prior, I look foward to my favorite version of "Twilight", yes, FUV is still streaming, just go to the above link and click away. I do know that my man Crabby will be tuned in live.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 16:59:57 CET 2003 from 1cust151.tnt2.pocatello.id.da.uu.net (65.239.51.151)

Posted by:

Rollie

Subject: John W

Be nice!Besides , history and evidence support his remarks. Be careful of libel.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 16:52:38 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: publishing

As Peter Stone Brown pointed out, "The Weight", as well as the other original songs on "Music From Big Pink" (plus most of the Basement Tapes material), were published by Dylan's Dwarf publishing entity. Author Fred Goodman, in his book about the music industry, "The Mansion On The Hill", wrote that manager Albert Grossman received a 50% share of Dwarf's publishing instead of his normal 25% management commission. Mr. Grossman was both respected and feared in the music business as a manager who was able to help his clients achieve commercial success, while at the same time maintaining artistic control & integrity.

By the time they recorded their second album, Grossman had helped The Band set up their own publishing company, Canaan Music, Inc. Around the mid-seventies, The Band followed Dylan's suit in leaving both Woodstock and Grossman for the sunny shores of California and the allure of working with David Geffen. According to Mr. Goodman's book, The Band paid Grossman $625,000 to get out of their management contract with him. Around this same time Robbie Robertson set up his own publishing company, Medicine Hat.

As someone else mentioned the other day, Robertson gained experience in the world of songwriting & publishing early on with Ronnie Hawkins. One lesson he learned the hard way came when his first song was recorded by the Hawk and was surprised to see Roulette Records head Morris Levy credited on the album as a co-writer. Mr. Levy gained a notorious reputation in the music business through his ruthlessness and rumoured ties with the Mob. He started out in the '40s running nightclubs, including the famous Birdland, and reportedly learned just how lucrative the annuities of music publishing could when an ASCAP representative came by to collect the monthly fees associated with the public performance of copyrighted songs. By the time he started Roulette a decade later, it is alleged that he routinely usurped songwriting credits of his artists. He reportedly amassed a publishing empire that held interests in thirty thousand copyrights. Included were such titles as "Lullaby of Birdland", "The Yellow Rose of Texas", "Why Do Fools Fall In Love", and many of Chuck Berry's songs.

Fans of HBO's "Sopranos" are familiar with the character of Hesh Rabkin. In addition to serving as an advisor to Tony Soprano, Hesh acquired a fortune in the music industry during the '50s & '60s and retained the ownership of questionable songwriting credits. Although the characters of this series are purely fictional, there's no doubt who may have helped inspire that of Hesh.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 16:48:22 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

vince rosa

as a fellow musician i can only say that rick danko and the band have enriched my life, god gave a gift to the world , THE BAND!THANX......VINCE ROSA


Entered at Wed Feb 19 16:33:37 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Subject: BIGOTRY

Reading the posts and links from Pete and Rollie, I am amazed that anyone could post such anti-American BIGOTRY. So, Rollie, your link quotes a jerk who says America is hated not because it stands for democracy, freedom, and human rights; but because it stands for dictatorship, bondage, and human exploitation. Pete excuses anti-American terrorism, saying we have brought it upon ourselves with our own terrible actions. I never thought a Band guestbook would be a platform for such bigotry. This stuff goes beyond regular politics in which decent people can disagree. This is just mindless anti-American bigotry. So if you are not opposed to seeing it on this web site, please don't ever complain about any other bigoted statements you might see. Unless you think "anti-American bigotry is OK, it's just other kinds of bigotry that's bad".


Entered at Wed Feb 19 16:32:13 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

One verse in "Caravan II Baghdad" (clip Hamid Baroudi)

"They were happy young men in the sundown land"

scene with the desert far view plane


Entered at Wed Feb 19 16:12:49 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

EdV: Aren't nuns SUPPOSED to be single?


Entered at Wed Feb 19 16:02:40 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Billl

jTF: As should the UK, leaving the Euro parliament with veto power. And guess how they'd vote?


Entered at Wed Feb 19 16:01:03 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

More exactly, CLICK on the PLAY button (last link)


Entered at Wed Feb 19 15:26:05 CET 2003 from cache-ntc-ae10.proxy.aol.com (198.81.26.143)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Just read the LA Times (yes, I live on Eastern Time even when here, rather than adjusting and readjusting when I return home) left at my room door and there was a great article on FRENCH (and German) heavyhandedness, in that as the EU develops, they see themselves as the center of political gravity there. Now, newer countries are balking at this, and are using the U.S. as a counterbalance. Nothing surrising here, just further proof of the hypocracy of these 'multilateral' countries. As the article suggest, if the French are serious, they should give up there permanent UN security council seat in favor of an All-European one.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 14:43:59 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Press the Play button (last link) Real Player


Entered at Wed Feb 19 14:38:08 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link


Entered at Wed Feb 19 14:09:48 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: Hamid Baroudi Und Der Disidenten - (Some will like it)

Ethno, techno, classical and modern music are combined into the visionary sound of Algeria-born singer and composer Hamid Baroudi. The former frontman of avant garde German band, Die Dissidenten, Baroudi has continued to explore the outer reaches of music as a soloist. His debut solo album, "City No Mad", was dedicated to "everyone who hope to live in a world without any racism, fanaticism, violence, wars which and borders" and topped the European music charts in August 1994. Two years later, the album was completely remixed and re-released as "Mad C. T. Mix". Baroudi's second solo album, "Fire", which featured songs sung in Arabic, English, French, Spanish and the West African language, Wolof, also reached the top five on the European world music charts.

Baroudi, whose earliest musical roots were in the sounds that he heard as a youngster in Algeria, performed his debut concert at the age of thirteen. After an extended stay in France, Baroudi moved to Kassel, Germany where he studied art and helped to form Die Dissidenten. Together with the group, Baroudi recorded four albums and toured throughout the world. Since launching his solo career, Baroudi has headlined three Womad tours. ~ Craig Harris, All Music Guide

Algerian's Hamid Baroudi has been a musical nomad every since he took to the stage at the age of 13. After moving to Europe, was a member of the world fusion band Dissidenten for six years, then broke off on his own to further his quest for a global sound that blends tradition with cutting-edge pop. Opposed to musical borders and limitations, Baroudi borrows freely from techno, funk, disco, jazz and other Western idioms and fuses them effortlessly with North African themes, melodies and rhythms. "I love to make it difficult for people to categorize me," he says. "'What kind of music do you play?' people ask me. 'Is it ethno, techno, classic or modern?' to which I can only answer: Sorry, but that's not my problem. It was my problem until I composed it, now the ball's in your court."

"Caravan II Baghdad (Sodi Mix)" is a funky remix with an unstoppable beat that layers Baroudi's flighty vocals over a bass line that would make Bootsy Collins proud. The catchy guitar riffs recall the positive elements of disco, generating an irresistible urge to dance. "It is time to go to bed.," sings Baroudi in Arabic, "The child cannot sleep, wishing to be told the tales of 1001 Nights. But mother says, 'That was long ago, my child…long ago.' The caravan of peace is underway, hoping for better times."


Entered at Wed Feb 19 14:01:43 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: rollie

Rollie: It's a nice thought. It's a utopia, unfortunately, that probably will never occur. For one, in general, people are tooooooo lazy to make the effort asked by Bowman. Secondly, the proof is in the pudding. Prez Bush, right before and during and after the bombing of Afghanistan asked for all Americans to become volunteers. That as a nation we should donate an hour a week to volunteerism. He saw the good in it. We all know the good of it. BUT God forbid we miss our shows, miss getting on the internet, miss our weekly racquetball game, our drinks at the local watering hole, etc.., We all lead such important, ambitious, and productive lives that there is no way We/I can volunteer for anything. Pres Bush message of volunteerism had the resonance of a thud. Now this is not to say we or this administration or the next should not continue to promote this line of thinking and more importantly - doing - this effort.

And Rollie, there was nothing in that piece revealing or that anyone who has done any kind of reading of global affairs doesn't already know. Thanks for the link though, it was an interesting couple of minute read from a man who has little to no shot at being President.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 08:36:48 CET 2003 from dialup-65.58.152.7.dial1.portland1.level3.net (65.58.152.7)

Posted by:

Pete

If the United States is truly worried about terrorism, then it should stop supporting and committing it. "War on Terrorism" is a joke term, and it falls under simple scrutiny. If nothing else, our support for Turkey shows this, but you can choose just about any Latin American country as a starting point. The consequences of supporting such activities are quite predictable, and we can expect more events like September 11th. Or we can actually be serious about stopping terrorism by demanding our government stop committing and supporting it. That might help answer the question of how all that American oil got under Iraq.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 07:39:24 CET 2003 from ip68-7-9-220.sd.sd.cox.net (68.7.9.220)

Posted by:

Cheryl Moreland mca7@cox.net

Location: San Diego

Subject: When will you come here?

When will you be coming to concert here in San Diego? Would love to see you. You've given alot of people inspiration.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 07:37:52 CET 2003 from ip68-7-9-220.sd.sd.cox.net (68.7.9.220)

Posted by:

Cheryl Moreland

Location: San Diego

Subject: When will you come here?

Wanting to know when you will have a concert here in San Diego.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 07:08:28 CET 2003 from 1cust35.tnt2.pocatello.id.da.uu.net (65.239.51.35)

Posted by:

Rollie

Web: My link

Subject: crabby ,brien sz

Hey Crabby and Sz. I would appreciate if you guys would take the time to read this and see what you think. Col Bowman worked on the Star Wars program for Carter and was a decorated Vietnam fighter pilot. He has some interesting thoughts on terrorism.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 06:39:58 CET 2003 from 1cust35.tnt2.pocatello.id.da.uu.net (65.239.51.35)

Posted by:

Rollie

Subject: nothing new

Crabby! Glad to hear you use multiple sources and don't want war.The Unanswered questions sight could hardly be labeled a conspiracy sight. It does raise "questions" however. If the info points in a certain direction , so be it. I think it's important before we go sacrificing a lot of lives, we're very clear about the why and who of it all. I sure as hell don't have all the answers,but a lot of unanswered questions. Best to all as I think the worst is yet to come............Remember the Gulf of Tompkin, yet another U.S. staged event to bring about war. Cheers!


Entered at Wed Feb 19 05:51:19 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

Long Distance Operator

I'd like to thank BEG for the illuminating post. With all the other stuff going on, it's nice to read something that relates to The Band and Bob Dylan. Say those things together: The Band and Bob Dylan. The Band and Bob Dylan. It feels real good.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 04:46:14 CET 2003 from cache-ntc-ae10.proxy.aol.com (198.81.26.143)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: 'mafia slurs'?

Ed, did I slur the mafia? Don't even remember posting about them, but who knows. Ironically, my flights to LA were cancelled yesterday and since I was 'stranded at home', I ended up watching Godfather 1 on AMC. Can't watch to much of that. My dad is 100% Italian, and my inlaws are part Sicilian, and that part of their family IS connected. Two years ago my wife's grandmother died, and the funeral home was up in New York City in the old family neighborhood around 33rd St. in Manhatten. Well, judging from some of the characters there, it was as close to that scene as I ever need to be. Too volatile.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 04:14:09 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3613328.sympatico.ca (65.93.195.187)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Dylan and Robbie Speak in Rolling Stone '71

Jann Wenner: Most people who become successful in records, especially artists, start wondering at some point about whether they're becoming businessmen, taking care of contracts, and making money...Did you ever get that?

Dylan: Yeah, I certainly did. I'd love to become a businessman. (Laughs) Love it. Love it.

Jann Wenner: What do you think of the music business?

Dylan: I'd love to become a businessman in the music business.

Jann Wenner: Doing what?

Dylan: Well, doing that same thing that other businessmen are doing...talking about recording, publishing, producing...

No one does Dylan better than Dylan....;-D

Jann Wenner: Of all the versions of "This Wheel's On Fire", which do you like the best?

Dylan: Uh...The Band's. Who else did it? (Julie Driscoll and The Byrds)

In one of my videos of The Hawk.....He advised all the boyzzzz from The Band to take care of bizzzzz.....He said that Robbie was the only one who listened......

Howard Gladstone: You wrote all the songs?

Robbie: Well, one of them I wrote with Levon, and about three of them I wrote with Richard. And I wrote all the rest of them myself. Half of them were written while we were recording, and I engineered it. It was really a lot of work. I was wasted before we began, and I'm just not together after that.

Howard Gladstone: Would you say there was a leader in the group, or is it more a co-operative effort?

Robbie: Well, neither, actually. We have something else going. I don't really understand how it works, it just goes that way. Everybody plays a different part in the group. There is no leader, nobody in the group wants to be a leader. I do a lot of the out-front stuff, but the guys do a lot of the back-front stuff.

Some people have alluded that Robbie was actually very different than the other Band members.....that he was always apart......His background may give us some clues but our backgrounds don't have to imprison us forever but.....there may be some truth here.....In anycase what I really respect about Robbie is that he has always beaten to his own drum without having to play on anyone else's drum....Perhaps he was a loner even within The Band and in most circles of musicians because??????

Well....He was an only child who never knew his biological father......In ABORIGINAL VOICES he finally admits to being scarred from racism....."His rock 'n' roll dream was also about getting away from the confusion. 'I ran away from it. I ran into the world and tried to find a place to hide. And I got to hide in music. Then my life became much like everyone else in the melting pot of America. I was looking to melt in and that was a way of me hiding the hurt. I was able to think, I'm just like anybody else, I fit in and I'm O.K.'"

Again Robbie was different than the other Band members....so it's not surprising that he found it difficult to be authentic about his ethnic background because of racism. Are these reasons why he mistrusted most people?....Or...As Buddhists would say.....ANYTHING YOU DO DEEPLY IS LONELY....I can only guess....But I do accept that for Robbie....He no longer had to PLAY LIVE......TO FEEL......ALIVE.....It's his life......Sure I'm disappointed that my guitar hero will probably never play live in the same room I'm in......But it's his life......As Marley would say....."All I have is my life"....and yes....It does take courage and conviction to live it the way you envision it......If it was easy....We'd all be doing it......So he continues to inspire.....maybe one day......


Entered at Wed Feb 19 03:06:53 CET 2003 from ptd-24-198-166-33.maine.rr.com (24.198.166.33)

Posted by:

MattK

Subject: logic is as logic does

Yeah it sure does suck when someone takes your beliefs and manipulates and simplyfies them to score an emotional point.

Safe to say, Crab, your average war protester is no more a "Saddam Supporter" than you are a racist. But I suppose as long as you insist on playing fancy free with rhetorical hyperbole, you won't mind if I do the same?

Of course you don't. That would be hypocritical.

Now I imagine even Arab-haters understand that the distraction from N. Korea is also a distraction from the pursuit of Al Qaeda - since there is no solid link to indicate Hussein is providing money, guns or lawyers to Bin Laden's syndicate.

However, since Hezbollah HAS, in fact, set up many of its European with Al Qaeda support, and since Hezbollah is largely based and supported by Iran and Syria, why is it not considered a greater importance to "deal" with these very real threats to the security of US and it's ally Israel? In fact, our own CIA has noted that post 9-11 Iran provided real aid and comfort to fleeing Taliban and Al Qaeda troops, second only to Western Pakistan - which, incidentally, has nuclear weapons (and violated the same international treaty that N. Korea admits to breaking, and which no arms inspector or intelligence source accuses Iraq of attempting since '97).

So how is it that Iraq is international enemy #1? There's a lot of "bad guys" we gotta get "dead or alive" as our president has declared. At this point, Hussein has neither the weapons, means or influence to represent a threat in the "war on terror."

ALL of the 9/11 terrorists came from countries we consider ALLIES in this so-called "war on terror." Does that not suggest to even the mildly interested that we cannot draw borders around the problem or "fight" it with conventional means or strategem?

So how is STARTING a war of occupation the most logical, sensible way of protecting our citizens? Our own intelligence reports that risk of a massive terrorist strike will INCREASE as a result of a war with Iraq. So who does it benefit, again?

Oh, THAT's RIGHT! It's the millions of Iraqis we've ignored for the past 20 years.

(Cause it sure ain't about the oil, is it?)

Speaking for myself, I'm not trafficking in conspiracy. But I'm still waiting for someone to make any sense of this so-called "Iraqi threat" that is suddenly so dire that we have to jeapordize our domestic safety, side track our pursuit of Al Qaeda, and destabilize and already shakey economy in order to deal with it.

It's impossible to deal with the real effects that war can have, rippling out over decades, unless you are at FIRST honest about your true motives and desired aims.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 02:46:29 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: Hotels in Rome, Peter Viney

Stay in convents. Our family of four stayed in a spacious, quiet, air-conditioned, and impeccably clean room in a convent for $133 a night including breakfast. There are convents that rent out rooms all of over Italy. And, we never saw a single nun. When are you going again, Peter?


Entered at Wed Feb 19 02:25:14 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: The Answer

Unlimited funding for CIA black ops!


Entered at Wed Feb 19 02:00:20 CET 2003 from 1cust166.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.166)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Views & News

Please cite where I said, "Kill every Arab and Muslim" (I have friends at work who are Muslim btw.) I think you may be confusing me with another poster who is much closer personally to former members of The Band.

I guess I should get my news from the "9/11 conspiracy sites" who would have me believe that Bush met with Mohammed Atta, ordered the suicide mission to destroy the WTC towers, and that a missile rather than a passenger jet crashed into the Pentagon. BTW there was plenty of coverage of the anti-war demonstrations on CNN - which NOT my only source for news.

And, believe it or not, I don't want a war - I want Saddam to comply fully with the UN resolution - NOW!!

[Click the link above to view an excellent site objectively reviewing conspiracist viewpoints.]


Entered at Wed Feb 19 01:18:08 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

PutUpYerDukes, PutEmUp,PutEmUp

Al, as i was writing my initial post re the feud, conscious of the fact that I wished to use a monikker, PutUpYerDukes appeared in my brain. Considering the obvious high level of cranial activity you experience, I imagine this is a occurrence and experience with which you are familiar. And regarding the subject, I found PutUpYerDukes to have a fitting irony to it. The PutEmUp, PutEmUp may have materialized during the act of typing PutUpYerDukes. You can't say one with out the other. Snagglepuss , indeed, was a great cartoon character during my youth. So it is his saber-tooth tiger delivery of the expression that I am most familiar with.I am in my forties, familiar with and enamored of Gabby Hayes from old movies years ago. Without you prompting me, however, I am not sure that I would be summoning up the image of him dancing around and challenging someone to PutUpYerDukes, PutEmUp,PutEmUp. Did this actually take place in a film? I want to say an old western with the Duke. Now I am the curious one.

I have one more thing to say that has relevance to my earlier posts regarding the Feud. I am hopeful that most of you do recognize my high regard and love for the Band and it's members. Although I have alluded to weaknesses and flaws, that does not change. And I feel the need to point that out. Humanity is a strange thing. It is a balancing act. You get a lot of something, and less of other things. The ability to be creative on a high level, shut it off at will, become a great business person, then shut that off and return to being a great creator, does not exist.Maybe you can develop it, but I do not believe that you can develop it to the point where you truly are a great businessman and stay a great creator. Maybe a half assed businessman who can understand a lot and some of the finer points, but it so involved, so drawn out, so time consuming that you better have a great management and legal team you can trust.When they appear on the scene is questionable, artists search for that for a long time. Look at the mess Springsteen had years ago with his management situation, the man could not record for years till he straightened out that mess.. The whole damn music business is a huge labrynth and a big damn mess. I just needed to express that in light of the fact that I pointed out that Rick, Richard, Levon and Garth were weak in that area. It is not a condemnation of them by any means. Just pointing out that they chose to stay creative and to keep having fun, and really took no interest in business. The shame of the whole music business is that it is very rare for an artist that does not exactly fit into a popular formula and does succed on a huge level to not take a beating. But it is a business and run by business minded men. Dylan is an example of an artist who fit no formula, defined himself, but came along at a time when the music industry embraced just that. And he defined himself so well, and was so damn popular, that they needed him. I know alot of you are screaming that he started out as a folk singer, but even then, he was a standout that did not fit in. His originals were more than the norm of the time, and his singing never was traditional on any level. Anyway,the level that the Band was on, they should of had a good team behind them. Unfortunately, that never , ever happened.

I really am done, happy to be,


Entered at Wed Feb 19 00:28:05 CET 2003 from pc-80-193-96-142-sm.blueyonder.co.uk (80.193.96.142)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Brum, UK

Subject: This ain't Kansas

"Putemup, put up yer dukes..." Wizard of Oz. 'Brave' lion first meets Dorothy. Good to hear from you again Whacker. Great posts you and Peter.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 00:05:12 CET 2003 from 1cust120.tnt1.pocatello.id.da.uu.net (67.250.112.120)

Posted by:

Rollie

Web: My link

Subject: crabster

You keep calling anti war folks Saddam supporters. Is the former Commander of Desert Storm ,Norm Schwarzkopf, a Saddam supporter ,because he too is in support of further weapons inspections(BBC interview, last week), and doesn't trust Donald Rumsfeld? Scott Ritter, former U.N. weapons inspector, who was there and denies current allegations? He's a self proclaimed ,card carrying Republican, who voted for Bush, and he's calling bullshit on this program. If CNN is your only source for news, you're in trouble.And so are we.Hans Blix, current chief inspector, who reports no WMD and no nuclear producing capabilities. Answer this:who currently possesses the most WMD?Which country is the only one to use "bomb"? Who supplied IraQ with biological weapons, that were then used against american troops? I've said it before , we need to find the bastards behind 9-11. If you've done any homework at all (outside of CNN) the fingers aren't pointing at Saddam. Is Bush's stealing of the elections pro-democracy?Doubtful. The administration keeps selling the lie that Saddam kicked out the weapons inspectors. Ritter was there and acknowledges the inspectors were told to leave because of an impending U.S. bombing raid. Enough of this tripe. Go do your homework.Try something other than CNN.


Entered at Wed Feb 19 00:01:57 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

The guy responsable for 9/11 wasn't even mentioned in our President's state of the union address, what country does he goveren again...is he dead or alive, no one at the top seems to know or care..and wasn't he the reasen we went over there in the first place,seems to me I remember our fearless leader branding him "Wanted Dead or Alive"...I think George forgot his name...so how long will we be over there if we strike every country who has ever harbored terrorists, shit just drop the bigin and start over...meanwhile thousands cross our boaders without even sighning the guest book,theres more security at a Walmart..I don't know the answers, but the boys at the top aint exactly making me feel all warm and fuzzy...oh well I better get back to building my duct tape bunker...Red Green would be proud..


Entered at Tue Feb 18 23:56:16 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Another thing a lot of people might not know is, in the Phil Spector airport scene in "Easy Rider", that was his own limousine and his own bodyguard/driver!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 23:36:26 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: Easy Rider

"A man went looking for America and couldn't find it anywhere."
--promo for the film "Easy Rider"

The road movie of the Woodstock generation, "Easy Rider", actually foreshadowed the Altamont generation as peace, love & understanding gave way to hard drugs, violence & death.

Straight out of some strange twist in a far-out film treatment, it was Phil Spector in a cameo role as the "L.A. connection" who buys the drugs from Wyatt & Billy that finances their journey in search of America. Arriving in a Rolls Royce with his bodyguard, "the connection" tests the Mexican white powder parked near the L.A. International Airport. Against a background of a different, cacophonous "wall of sound", Spector's character ducks each time a plane roars by overhead, barely breaking his concentration as he confirms the drug's potency. Cash in hand, Wyatt & Billy roar off on the own journey -- cue Steppenwolf's "The Pusher".

Later in the film, the wanderers ride across the desert landscape through Monument Valley at sunset as "The Weight" plays in the soundtrack. Perhaps Robbie Robertson was particularly displeased that the next scene took place as they camped in the Pueblo Indian ruins, disrespectfully above the burial grounds. Ghosts of the past fortell the future.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 23:29:59 CET 2003 from ptd-24-198-166-33.maine.rr.com (24.198.166.33)

Posted by:

MattK

Subject: The lawn needs watering

As much as Crab's pithiness has at times crossed over into the nether-regions of smugness masquerading as cleverness, I've never had cause to question his intelligence.

Until now.

His recent inability to segregate 9/11 from Iraq, Osama Bin Laden from Saddam Hussein has me wondering if his apparent intelligence was just another veneer, or if he's truly taken leave of his senses. There is no link that has been established between Iraq and Al Qaeda, and until last week, Bin Laden had done nothing but call on his Islamist followers to resist Saddam (as well as rival Bath party dictators in Libya and Syria).

Apparently Crabby ascribes to the very "kill every Arab and Muslim" rhetoric that does not BORDER on racism, but has established squatters rights in a trailer right next door to the likes of David Duke and The World Church of the Creator.

But since he has decided to equate anti-war folk with "Saddam Supporters," I wonder then if he's mosied on down to his local induction office and signed up to join the folks he's asking to risk their lives for him. After all, if Iraq is truly such a concern for him, then we shouldn't assume he'd be willing to let others spill their blood for a fight he's willing to pick. That would be hypocritical, and surely Crabgrass is NOT a hypocrite.

Of course he isn't.

And since both Libya and Syria are Bath Party states ruled by ruthless dictators, and since there IS a credible link between these countries and terrorism, he must be advocating equally as vigorously for a unilateral, offensive attack on these two countries. I'm sure he's polishing his gun just itching to get over and take out Syria's own Hussain, or our old friend Khaddafi.

After all, this can't REALLY be about oil, can it? The US Government has ALWAYS put human rights on the front burner ahead of political influence and those greenback presidents.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 23:24:19 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

Subject: Cheese,,,,,,

Hey...Robbie, when you get your picture taken with a beitiful woman your supposed to smile, : )


Entered at Tue Feb 18 23:13:01 CET 2003 from 213-48-246-138.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.246.138)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Final reflection - pending BWNWIT hint, hint

Just to echo Putemup's fond sentiments re our fellow Gb'ers.

And to pose a final question.

Is the non de plume Putupyerdukes - PutemupPutemup inspired by Gabby Hayes, Charlie Worcester, Snagglepus or or all three? Or someone else whose name and image escapes me? Help sought desperately to scratch this itch?


Entered at Tue Feb 18 23:09:42 CET 2003 from du-tele3-236.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.236)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Baffolo Boll

Yes, Jericho has at least two sublime songs. Shows what The Band can do when interpreting truly great songwriters (messrs Dylan and Springsteen in this case). Otherwise, none of the rest is up to solo Robbie standards.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 23:08:30 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Pehr - True, but I was asking about the "war on terrorism". Regardless if the Government in Iraq or Saudi Arabia or other countries is run by brutal dictators or Santa Claus, these termites will continue to come out of their rat holes and attack from time to time. So my question, again, to the anti-war crowd is, If you don't think it is right to nail the terrorists by taking out these governments who tolerate them and replacing their regimes, then what is your alternative means of getting the terrorists? Or should we just leave them alone to prepare for the next 9/11?


Entered at Tue Feb 18 22:52:36 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Lay a flower in the snow

Appartenly, because Rick has no headstone (a wise decision, sometimes overzealous fans can be destructive)and his son's is buried in 3 feet of snow, I can not at this time "lay a flower in the snow".

But come St. Patrick's day, I should be able to manage it. And I strongly urge everyone who has the opportunity to also lay a flower on Rick's grave, in the hope that the message of forgiveness reaches both Levon and Robbie


Entered at Tue Feb 18 22:49:40 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.206)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Pehr, I like your style. Well said.

PEACE


Entered at Tue Feb 18 22:26:50 CET 2003 from m198214176085.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.85)

Posted by:

Pehr

Subject: John W., since you asked...

Well gee, John W., my suggestion is that we keep him tied up with inspections since that seems to keep him under wraps and find something, or make a better case to rest the world. It seems to have kept him too busy to do anything thus far, and we avoid a clash with the Muslim world Bin Laden & Co. are egging us toward. Meanwhile, Mr. Bush could "Lead with Humility" as he promised he would when he was handed the office, instead of telling vast throes of people and entire countries that they are "Irrelevant".

I guess this is what you call "inaction." I call it an avenue of course that is peaceful, slow to anger, not prideful, not boastful, not fearful; but patient, wise, diplomatic, compassionate, conservative, brave, truthful, humble, courageous, kind, thrifty, clean, reverant, and ultimately, American.

pehr1960 at yahoo dot com.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 21:56:24 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: Hank and North Korea; Empty Now and empty music

Hank,

To my knowledge North Korea has not threateded to nuke the U.S. What's more, N.K. cannot deliver a nuke to the U.S. (It did test a missle that sailed over Japan.) N.K. will not attack the U.S. because it is deterred from doing so. That is, if it did, it would be vaporized in forty minutes by U.S. missles. Look at it from N.Korea's standpoint: 1) Bushron has declared N.Korea "evil"; 2) Bushron has stated it will attack other countries preemptively to prevent them from being a preceived threat or perveived rival to the U.S.; therefore 3) N. Korea will seek to protect itself from the U.S. It is not "all right" for ANY country to have nukes. If one has it, the others will want them, too. Unfortunately, the U.S. has led the way in nuclear escalation, including recently pulling out of the Anti Ballistic Missle Treaty. Bushron's course of madness must be confronted and turned around by people in the street cuz there are no elected "leaders" even discussing alternatives (ok, Sen. Robert Byrd is talking to himself).

Empty Now:

If we don't stop the madness, there may not be any more music. edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Tue Feb 18 21:50:27 CET 2003 from libstfstx03.library.uiuc.edu (130.126.34.238)

Posted by:

Susan

Location: a windowless office, but The Healing Game is playing on the pc

nice phrase, biffalo, 'wiggle and weave'. That's just what happens in good live music when the players listen and respond to each other. I'll borrow the phrase - thanks


Entered at Tue Feb 18 21:45:54 CET 2003 from du-tele3-236.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.236)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: All sorts

Ed, thanks for the info. The Sopranos Episode 3.8 “He is Risen” (the one where Tony refuses to drink with Ralph and disinvites him to Thanksgiving dinner) was possibly inspired by Bill Graham’s conversation with Robbie. BTW, why are there no Band songs on the Sopranos? I think Bill Graham’s book is one of the great rock autobiographies, but I especially enjoyed his years as a busboy in The Catskills, and I’d have to say that he comes across as interesting, feisty but somewhat of an overbearing arsehole in the rock years. Don’t forget that he tried to give the Band a cash tip after TLW and Robbie was offended. So who made more out of the actual concert, I wonder?

Robbie was wrong that all else was worthless on Easy Rider- I’d say that “Wasn’t Born to Follow’ went so perfectly with The Weight that they’re essential together on the soundtrack. “Ballad of Easy Rider” is definitely worthy, and even though “If Six Was Nine” sounds very dated now, it had value at the time. I’m afraid that “Don’t Bogart That Joint” (a song I always liked) does deserve now to be filed under ‘strictly novelty’ and while Steppenwolf were a bit too obvious on “The Pusher”, “Born To Be Wild” is still significant great Levis ad music.

But what hopes do we have of significant songs from any Band members? Well, instrumentals from Garth hopefully, but as far as decent original new songs go (rather than simply good performances), our only hope is the next Robbie album.

On Italians – when I was working around Italy a lot in the early 80s there was a major anti bottom-pinching campaign going on, with women being advised to yell out and make a fuss. It worked, I believe. On the same topic, I was slightly dubious about huge numbers travelling long distances to Rome, as many of them consider Rome a city of less importance than their own home town. Well, actually, they consider that about any city outside their region! I mean … Milanese travelling to Rome to protest? BTW, that’s exactly why Italy has far the best food in the world (and why I love the place so much). Regional pride. An Italian colleague I travelled Italy with always used to say there were four things you could never find in Rome – a decent hotel at a reasonable price, an honest taxi-driver and a bad meal. The latter is nearly impossible even in tourist spots. Did I say four? Well, the fourth is anti-clerical and definitely offensive, so I’ll leave it for those who may know the saying. (Crabbie - e-mail me if you don't already know it!)


Entered at Tue Feb 18 21:38:53 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

PutUpYerDukes, PutEmUp, PutEmUp

Fortunately, it appears that this installment of "The Feud" has run it's course. I feel compelled to say that I although I disagree with Peters Viney and Stone Brown, and with Pat Brennan, I would like to thank them for stimulating me to massage my numbed brain cells by using them in debate.

Hats off to Wacker, Al Edge. Your support over the last few days has been valued, and indeed, I am happy to share views with a bloke with as masterful and entertaining a command of lingo as you. I have indeed enjoyed quite a few belly laughs reading your posts. I am honored to have inspired you to make a guest appearance from exile to support me and our common position.

Ed Voci, as with Al Edge, I certainly roared more than once when reading your post. Great presentation. Your extension of protection is certainly appreciated. Nothing like ingenuity and a great sense of humor. "Clemenza swearing off cannoli's" indeed. And have you been sleeping with those quotes under your pillow?

The human mind is a wondrous thing, and when people are humorous and kind spirited by nature, ain't life just more fun!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 20:07:26 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalu boll

Subject: hit the nail on the head

buth dener has the right idea. he comments on the living, dynamic musical experience. he says come out and see levon, jim, garth, richard, randy, et all whenever you get the chance! why? because your always in for a treat. these are the people who made those songs of yesteryear. they may not have written the words, fine poet that robbie could be, but they put you there. thats why when listening to anything these guys play, together or apart, as the reformed band, or now in their separate interests, you are given much more than perhaps a good poem or story, and a greatly enhanced presentation of mere blues ditties. while robbie has his place he is still a prisoner of his past decisions, re the last waltz, credit taken, etc. unlike the remaining members, living and dead, continued to show and play and please,themselves as well as their audience. glimpses of my argument can be seen by a simple comparion, while listening to robbies first solo effort(which i have 4 copies, and do enjoy), and the jericho cd. robbie tries to create the tapestry, in a new perspective lyrically, requiring a collection of musicians, who no doubt are talented but can never quite pull off the band style. its good but doesnt wiggle and weave like say the songs that levon and the fellas do on jericho. for me personally the jericho cd speaks of hope, regret, loss, honour, love and the ability to go on. folks go see the living, breathing variations of levon, garth, jim, randy and richard. songwriters maybe not, but songmakers extrordinaire!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 19:56:04 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

This weekend's protests seemed to show that the level of opposition to Bush-Blair-Rumsfeld's plans is stronger than I thought. OK, they don't like Bush's plan so -- what is their alternate plan? Unless they advocate inaction, what do they think the world should do? Imagine if there was a bee hive in your back yard. Bees come out and sting you, your kids, anyone in the yard, making it impossible to enjoy the space. You might be tempted to get rid of the hive, but you can't, because not all the bees are "stingers", there are half a million bees in there and most of them are "peace-loving". It is going to be difficult to separate the "bad" bees from the "good", especially when the bad ones love to blend in with the good ones and pretend to be peace-loving whenever you search. So would some anti-war protesters illustrate how to remove the threat presented by the "bad bees" (terrorists) who come from the "bee hive" (the Islamic world) without whacking the nest and enraging the other half a million peace-loving ones?


Entered at Tue Feb 18 19:32:31 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.1)

Posted by:

E N

i guess i have the answer, Crabby in your link the term music is absent


Entered at Tue Feb 18 19:03:26 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.1)

Posted by:

E N

Location: Ex Ottoman Empire

Subject: History, Ottomans, Isabella the Catholic...and MUSIC

across the 16th century, the century of the empires, my humble region had to choose between two dominations: Ottomans or Spanish (enforced just after the Reconquista). The choice actually was , the Flamenco Guitar or the Banjo (you can verify, the banjo is a Turkish invention). personally, i prefer the Flamenco....De Lucia...the history imposed us 4 centuries of banjo...presently, we the world are exactly in face of a similar choice....please please please please...give us the MUSICAL consequence. It's all which is worth discussing


Entered at Tue Feb 18 19:00:21 CET 2003 from 1cust227.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.227)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Saddam

Saddam supporters - click "link" for interesting reading matter.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 18:57:49 CET 2003 from usrfw01.prenhall.com (198.4.159.5)

Posted by:

Ray G

Location: Pearl River NY

Subject: Levon & The Barnburners smoked @ the Turning Point

I'm sure there have already been posts regarding Levon & The Barnburners at the Turning Point on Saturday night but I'm throwing in my 2cents late anyway... they and Jimmy V kicked ass! I was at the second show and even my wife and the other couple we were with(had to talk them into going!)were stoked!!! After the first two or three tunes they were glad they went! Speaking for myself... I'm always happy to see Levon! Great Show!!!!!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 18:46:22 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

EdV: Well said.

Crabgrass: How do you know that the palaces are luxurious?Wasn't the media telling us not so long ago that they're really munitions factories and chemical weapons dumps?

PeterV: This site was dead all yesterday for me too. Like you I was surprised to learn that almost everybody else was happily posting away, oblivious to my suffering.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 18:32:19 CET 2003 from 1cust227.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.227)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: As I already said...

"I guess even if NYC had been leveled by a nuke on 9/11 those of you on the wrong side of the fence would still be marching in step with Saddam's Fascist Iraq, the terrorist al Queda, and the ultra-reactionary Taliban. It is indeed curious to see socalled liberals supporting the likes of such parties."

Sure, Saddam is a "Socialist." I'm certain his 8 luxurious palaces all have copious supplies of the writings of Marx and Engels on the coffee tables. Iraq is sitting on top of the world's second largest oil reserve - why doesn't he see fit to communally share that wealth with his people instead of using it to amass WMDs?

For those wondering why N. Korea is not THE big story at the moment it's because unlike the al Queda they haven't yet attacked the US directly - surprised you had to ask.

Taking a coffee break now!!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 17:45:04 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Subject: Ed Voci - A E I O U

Ed: A bit of plitics, just for i remain in the GB

the credo of Frederic II of Habsburg

Austria Est Imperare Orbi Universo, AEIOU

It belongs to Austria to govern the world, now the world must chose the good leader

Thanks for the first half of the your post


Entered at Tue Feb 18 16:57:34 CET 2003 from 206-159-156-57.netsync.net (206.159.156.57)

Posted by:

carolyn Fugate

Location: near Wellsville, NY
Web: My link

Subject: Do your still do school programs?

"H bridget, You did a program at Wellsville 4 years ago...do you still make appearnances? let me know your rates and dates. I am an elementary principal wanting to bring culture to my rural school of 290 students. My EMail is Carolyn@oswayovalley.k12.pa.us


Entered at Tue Feb 18 16:15:39 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: Don Corleone, Bill Graham, Peter Fonda, Al Edge/PutEmUp, Cragbrass Pinching Saddam's Ass

As Don Vito Corleone said about the vicious war between the five New York families, “How did things ever get so far?” And, as Don Corleone had done at the big meeting scene in “The Godfather”, I pledged not to seek vengeance and to make the peace by no longer speaking publicly about The Feud. So, what happens? All hell breaks loose. It took great strength for me to make this pledge. It’s like Clemenza swearing off cannoli, like Moe Green promising not to skim the casino or Martin Scorcese vowing that he’ll never again portray Italians as violent mobsters. (And, oh yes, while I think of it, Crabgrass and JTullFan, would you be so kind as to retract the mafia slurs....or I’ll break your friggin hard drives into little pieces and slice to shreds your high speed internet access cables, capisce?). However, a pledge is a pledge, so on the souls of my as yet unborn grandchildren, I will not publicly speak the Levonista cause, nor sell copies of TWOF near schools, nor speak of it to children. But, if some unlucky accident should befall Al Edge or PutEmUP, if they should get shot in the head by a police officer, if they should be found hanging in their jail cells or if they should be struck by bolts of lightning, I’M GOING TO BLAME SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS GUESTBOOK. :)

However, Don Corleone never promised that someone else, such as son Michael, would not wipe out the heads of the other four families. Similarly, I never said I would not quote OTHERS on how RR (a parallel to Barzini, I think) conducts himself. And for the record, I offer the following.

Peter Fonda, (“Don’t Tell Dad, A Memoir”):

“...I was at a party at McGinn’s house in Malibu when a call came in for me . It was Robbie Robertson of The Band, and he’d just screened ‘Easy Rider’. I’d approached him the previous fall about doing the music for the film, but he’d made it very clear that he was not even going to talk to us, and only changed his mind, like many of the other bands, after he’d seen the movie. Now, though Robbie allowed that Dylan’s tune ‘It’s Alright Ma’ was okay, he told me that the only music in the film that was really worth anything was ‘The Weight’. He wanted to do the entire musical score. I explained that were marrying the sound to the film in two days and we had a date to show the film as the official U.S. entry at the Cannes Film Festival. Robbie didn’t get the program, and insisted again. I was pleased that he felt so strongly about the film, but there wasn’t a whole lot that could be done, and I reminded him of his refusal to even talk to us the previous fall...”

From “Bill Graham Presents: My Life Inside Rock and Out”:

“A week later, their road manager called and said, ‘Robbie Robertson wants to talk to you.’ I said, ‘Fine. Have him call me.’ He said, ‘Don’t you want to call him?’ I said, ‘Let him call me.’ Robbie’s ego always bothered me more than anybody else’s. He was a great talent and a very handsome, attractive man who later on tried to have a career as an actor in movies. But his ego was too big. He called me and this was one of those conversations that wasn’t too pleasant. He said, ‘Hello, Bill. How’s everything?’ Just the tone of this voice got me started. I said, ‘Fine.’ He said, ‘How’s your family?’ That REALLY got to me. I said, ‘What did you say?’ he said, ‘How’s your family? How are your sisters?” He had been up in San Francisco for a while before the show and we had talked about our families. I said, ‘How many?” He said, ‘Huh?’. I said, ‘You asked me how my sisters were? How many do I have?’ ‘Bill,’ he said. ‘What are you talking about? This is Robbie and I’m just calling to say hello.’ He was calling because somebody had told him I was very angry at him. He said, ‘We’re going to so some studio stuff for the film and we’d like to interview you and talk about the making of the film and how we first got started playing for you. Man, the show was GREAT.’ I said, ‘Yeah, it was. What do you want to ask me about my family? Do you know who’s IN my family?' He said, ‘Bill, what’s wrong with you?’ I said, 'Nothing. Do you know who’s in my family? Do you know what I do for a living?' He said, ‘Bill. What are you talking about?' Then I totally lost it. I said, ‘Don’t you know what you forget to do while you were up here? YOU FORGOT TO SAY THANK YOU, YOU MOTHERFUCKER! WE WORKED OUR BALLS OF FOR YOU! YOU STOOD UP AND TOOK YOUR FUCKING BOWS BECAUSE YOU’RE THE ENTERTAINER. BUT THEN YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO LEAVE THE BUILDING WITHOUT SAYING A FUCKING WORD TO ANYONE. WE GAVE YOU EVERYTHING FOR FREE. EVERYTHING. AND YOU COULDN’T FIND IT IN YOUR HEART TO THANK US? FUCK YOU!’ I hung up the phone and that was it. It was the last time I ever talked to him.”

PutEmUp, you wrote:

“Ed, there is a special place in heaven reserved for you, where you will listen to the Band for eternity. However, you will share the listening room with Robbie and Levon. Now is that heaven, or is that hell?”

Well, rather than listening to earthly material with those two going at one another (also, I’m not sure THEY would make St. Peter’s list, especially if Bill Graham is working the door), my idea of heaven would be a reunion of the five making more music together with Guestbookers hanging out on the front porch. Music Without The Big Stink, we’d call it. Rick and Richard are already getting some songs together, I bet.

Al Edge:

C’mon, all Italians know that Looch don’t do freebies (as in “The Three Wallets”) and that Easter is in the Spring. Italians are passionate lovers, and terrible fighters (except my hometown boy, Rock Marciano, the only undefeated heavyweight champion of the world), so only something like protesting against the war could get so many of them away from watching soccer on TV. Either that, or Starbucks opened an espresso bar in Rome and that REALLY pissed of the Italians. :)

Crabgrass:

Was Saddam Huseein a bad guy when Remsfeld and Co. gave him chemicals and other weapons in the 1980's? Was Saddam a bad guy when Powell's Pentatgon worked with him to gas Iranian boy soliders? What has Saddam been doing for ten years? If Iraq had wanted to attack the U.S. and had an alliance with the 9/11 attackers, would 9/11 have been the eagle scout operation it was? The 9/11 attackers and planners took their best shot first (i.e. capitalizing on the element of surprise and the U.S. government's and the airlines' pathetic unpreparedness). Why didn't they use a WMD? Could a delivery system be just a teen weeny problem? Could it be that the Muslim extremists had no connection to the secualar Hussein who you say did have WMD? What about the CIA's assessment that Iraq won't use WMD? Could it be that the secular Saddam Husein is a socialist Pan-Arabist with a vision of a Greater Arabia and its oil for the Arab people and not for the royal dictators and their sponsoring multinational coporations and European colonizers (who drew up and imposed the boundaries of the current Middle East on the Arab people) who followed the domination of the region by the Turksish Ottoman Empire? I don't want to fill up Jan's computer with a list of dictators/despots that the U.S. has supported over the years (including Saddam, as I've mentioned), but should we have bombed and made war on all those countries? Should we bomb and declare war against Saudi Arabia? N. Kora? China? Would you also please respond, if you can, without personal insults, to the argument that the U.S. government has a policy to dominate the world primarily through having a monopoly on WMD and preemptive war? And please spare us the simplistic "better us than them" crap. "Them" ain't gonna stand for "us" imposing it's will on the rest of the globe and portends a future of constant warfare.

edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Tue Feb 18 15:33:05 CET 2003 from spider-tp032.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.187)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

Thanks Denise!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 15:12:10 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

curious, i still play piano easier than PC keyboard


Entered at Tue Feb 18 15:00:59 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

Hey Crabby, well, you got nerve, that fer sure. It takes a lot to repeat the dorkyest talk show drivel about Saddam and Osma and explain to others how THEY are not too swift. We should recall that when Bush Sr. went over to Kuiwait on behalf of Enron to cash in on the Gulf War, it was such a tacky attempt to cash in that even Schwarzkopf, never shy of a publicity dollar himself, called Bush out on it. Same greedy brain trust here if you ever feel like this is something you want to engage your head and well as your mouth/keyboard over.

Lot's of people out there who want to kill Americans? Hmm...you would think on way to make us safer would be a hard line, heads will roll investigation of 9-11, which many hard line right wingers, to their credit, called for at the time. They of course, have been shoved back into line.

Backing this is the same spoiled brat "If it feels good do it" right wing impulse that trashed up the process of Impeachment not so long ago. It makes no sense, it's predicated on Bullhocky, grow up.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 14:51:23 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

...and De Dopegezinde Gemeente are from Utrecht....ahhhhh! to be in Leidseplein....30 years before


Entered at Tue Feb 18 14:44:22 CET 2003 from dialup-0020.dublin.iol.ie (193.203.144.20)

Posted by:

Hank

Location: Cork
Web: My link

Subject: Hawks and Doves are circling round The GB

If North Korea nuked Iraq....would they be forgiven their apparent aggression?

Can anyone here explain to me why it is OK for North Korea to have Nukes, develope them AND threaten to launch them on The USA........but most of the worlds attention is focused on Iraq?

North Korea has an even WORSE human rights record than Iraq.....they had a FAMINE recently..... The USA fought a WAR in Korea......do the North Koreans have God on their side or what?....Saddam had God on his side when he hassled The Iranians.....as well as Lawyers, Guns and Money from Uncle Sam.....

But that's OK, isn't it?......North Koreans probably have relations running well-stocked and very well- tended corner stores all over the USA........not like them dirty A-rabs, right?......siting on top of all that oil that Global America needs.............

"If you hate us......you just don't know what yer sayin".......

Band connection: Levon performed on a song on the "Hawks and Doves" album by Neil Young........and was hopefully paid handsomely by Neil Youngs people for the excellent job he did.........


Entered at Tue Feb 18 12:24:25 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Dank U wel wel wel....Denise


Entered at Tue Feb 18 12:06:58 CET 2003 from 3eea15af.cable.wanadoo.nl (62.234.21.175)

Posted by:

Denise

Location: The Netherlands

Subject: Burrito Deluxe

Last Saturday we went to see Burrito Deluxe featuring "Sneeky"Pete Kleinow and our own Garth Hudson.The concert took place in Geldermalsen(a small town not that far away from Utrecht)in Nashville Boulevard,Which is not so much a concert hall ,but more of a party centre where they have concerts. Good atmosphere!We were seated at tables and there was a small stage in front.There were a few hundred people attending. Burrito Deluxe(Tommy Spurlock,Carlton Moody ,Willy Watson,Matt Spurlock,Rick Lonlow and 11 year old Jackson)pays tribute to the late Gram Parsons and his Flying Burrito Bros. Many Burrito songs were played,some new songs in the same idiom, a few Band songs(Rag mama rag-Garth was great-,the Weight-missed Rick's and Levon's vocals)and some Band and Burrito related songs:Mystery train,long black veil,When I paint my masterpiece-Garth on accrdion. The band played well ,very well,but it was Garth who turned it into something special;to me he was the one who drew all the attention. During the first half of the show Garth had problems with the Hammond organ;his own organ hadn't arrived in time and now a Dutch musician had kindly lent his .As someone put it:he's probably going to seal the organ and never going to touch it again after Garth played it.So for quite some time Garth was b usy with buttons and plugs and we could only hear him occasionally.But when he was there ,he was there! The 2nd half we heard a lot more of him.It was wonderful hearing and seeing him play;he still has great enthousism for what he's doing and it seems he's inventing every time he plays.I regretted this was not the kind of music to play the saxophone.Maybe next time? After the show I had the chance to talk briefly with him:I thanked him for 40 years of great music and he thanked me .When i told him I had a wonderful evening he replied in the voice I recognized from the Last Waltz:we had our moments.He probably wasn't too happy with the technical problems he'd had.But he was very kind ,kind of a father figure with a great sense of humour.After he'd signed my album cover of the Brown Album and the Sea to the North he told me he'd probably return somewhere in September.We'll be there,Garth!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 11:58:14 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

The Original Vynil LP (your picture) label from ABC - Dunhill is

ABC- Dunhill, DSX 50063 - Easy Rider (Soundtrack) - Various Artists -USA 1969


Entered at Tue Feb 18 11:05:36 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: Easy Rider – The Weight – WEB inaccuracies – My Apologies

Jan : Sorry, my last two links are suspicious. Perhaps now a reliable link. My Apologies


Entered at Tue Feb 18 10:14:01 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Peter V: I had the same problem from about 10 pm until 8 am this morning (all times local..for me that is) Every other site I visited was OK!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 10:00:04 CET 2003 from du-tele3-145.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.145)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: connections

Surprised to see so much traffic yesterday- after my breakfast-time post I couldn't connect all day - it was dead. No problem with any other website, so I assumed the server was down. Tried different routes too. But then looking at the posting times yesterday, it wasn't dead. Did anyone else have problems?

I wasn't doubting whether Rome had more than London, merely commenting on how press figures vary so widely. But now I think, given the comparative sizes of the cities and the far longer distances in Italy (though better transport systems) I thought the Rome figures of 2.5 million are unlikely.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 09:14:31 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

oh, by the way Saddam is not a fascist, technically he's a socialist. Still a thug, though.

I think the next world-wide march for peace should also (where possuble) should include trips to various Iraqi embassies and consulates...

Why isn't anyone going on about the North Koreans?

Al Edge: Italy: 1934, 1938 & 1982; En-gur-land :1966...'nough said ;) (and loosing to the Aussies can NEVER equal loosing to both North & South Korea!!)

Ed Voci: I'm not too keen on the Eternal City (nor the people I have met from there); I like Florence a lot better London's not a bad little town, either.

And finally....Regarding Elvis' version of That's All Right (from Q magazine):

"Levon Helm, drummer with The Band, recalled: 'Everything stopped when we heard his early record of That's All Right come on the radio. We felt like he was one of us.'"


Entered at Tue Feb 18 08:42:58 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Crabgrass: No, you've got it all wrong, the national passtime of Italy is taking the never-ending coffee break. Pinching women's behinds is one of those urban myths!!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 08:22:21 CET 2003 from px1wh.vc.shawcable.net (24.69.255.202)

Posted by:

Cupid

Location: way back when

Subject: songwriting discussion

Nothing I like better than to wiegh into a songwriting chat.This is in regards to the comment about big singers getting a big hunk of the writers royalty. Personally I think this is bunk, with out writers most of the folks in the top 40 pop charts would be would be otherwise involved..mostly in jobs that require one to ask the customer if they'd care for fries. It pisses me off no end that screeching hacks like Celine Dion demand 50% of all royalties a given song brings in...this is nothing less than extortion. However as previously stated if she does record it and it's released as a single the writer is gonna make good coin. Personnally I'm not sure I could hand over a song to somebody like that who bites the hand that feeds them.It reminds me of the days when DJ's would get a writing credit so a song would get extra spins and Col.Tom Parker slapping Elvis' name on Otis Blackwell songs.The Average songwriter will sell ONE song in their career...think about that...and these rich thugs want to take half of what the writer has worked his/her whole life for.I thought that was the governments job!..

night all..stop this madness Mr Bush..peace now!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 07:15:42 CET 2003 from 1cust80.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.80)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Home Loans

Home Loans - thanks for contributing the only truly rational post past my previous one!!

Keep rockin'!


Entered at Tue Feb 18 07:03:46 CET 2003 from 1cust176.tnt2.pocatello.id.da.uu.net (65.239.51.176)

Posted by:

Rollie

Subject: p.s.

"There's what's right, and there's what's right, and never shall the twain meet!" H-I McDonough --Raising Arizona


Entered at Tue Feb 18 06:53:30 CET 2003 from 1cust176.tnt2.pocatello.id.da.uu.net (65.239.51.176)

Posted by:

rollie

Subject: s-o-s

I don't support Saddam Hussein.But there are no credible links between Saddam and 9-11. Recent reports(no connection had been made until this last week,some timing eh?)are very suspicious, and contradictory at best.British intelligence admitted this three weeks ago, undermining Blairs fervor.Do you murder 100's of thousands to rid the world of one dictator? If it's just a matter of dictators,how come we're starting with Saddam.There are family members of the victims of 9-11 in Baghdad acting as shields right now. Is your loss greater than theirs!? Family members also asked Bush to investigate 9-11, which he tried to stop for a great length of time.Peaceniks? You say that as if it's a crime.As if blowing up innocent civilians , children, and ,yes, our soldiers, was something to be relished! How close have you been to actual war conditions?There's plenty of photo's on the net of what missiles and bullets can do to a person. What ever happened to our top priority of getting the man we blamed for 9-11 in the first place? I have plenty of NYC friends, some who lived virtually nextdoor to the towers, and had debris come in their windows, and they weren't marching for war. You want war so much? Hop on the boat, grab your gun, and go slaughter some folks. Tell me how you feel when you come back. Assuming you do that is. And then go ask some of the vets what kind of compensation they've received for fighting in the Gulf War.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 06:19:25 CET 2003 from dialup-209.244.65.148.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (209.244.65.148)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Oh yeah:

shepat@mindspring.com

If you really want to discuss this songwriting thing any further.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 06:17:25 CET 2003 from dialup-209.244.65.148.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (209.244.65.148)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Crabby, I was with you until you lumped Peoria and Chicago together.

I'd also like to say that I appreciate everyone wanting things to be different.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 06:06:02 CET 2003 from ca-santaanahub-cuda3-c3a-a-68.anhmca.adelphia.net (68.67.142.68)

Posted by:

Home Loans

Web: My link

Subject: Debt Consolidation

Nice Site, Keep up the Good work


Entered at Tue Feb 18 05:25:43 CET 2003 from 1cust46.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.46)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Anti-War Demonstrations

I have always considered the music of The Band as appealing mostly to intelligent people - but I guess it operates on other levels as well judging by the fact that some Band fans are obviously dumb enough to think that Saddam Hussein doesn't have any WMDs, that Osama bin Laden and his cohorts wouldn't love to get their hands on them, that they won't get their hands on them if he's allowed to keep them, and that they wouldn't use them if they did get their hands on them.

My "head" is in the reality of the present situation rather than the unreality that Saddam and Osama will respond to "Peace, Love, and Understanding." I guess even if NYC had been leveled by a nuke on 9/11 those of you on the wrong side of the fence would still be marching in step with Saddam's Fascist Iraq, the terrorist al Queda, and the ultra-reactionary Taliban. It is indeed curious to see socalled liberals supporting the likes of such parties.

Pearl Harbor will always be remembered but 9/11/01 and the WTC are seemingly already forgotten by many - at least here in the old GB. I worked on the 100th Floor of WTC 2 for a 10 year period, I used to be able to see the towers from my roof - and now they're gone, along with nearly 3,000 innocent people of all ages, races, and nationalities.

The ball is in Saddam's court and has been for the past 12 years. As of yet, there is no war - and there doesn't have to be -- unless Saddam continues to refuse to come clean.

Okay, all you peaceniks can fire up another joint now - just let me remind you this isn't Vietnam we're up against now - and we've sustained a hit on our homeland. (BTW I didn't vote for Bush and I marched in Washington and NYC to end the Vietnam War - but times and situations have changed - dramatically.)

Footnote: Of course the crowd was bigger in NYC because everyone came here to demonstrate - all the idiots from nowhere places like Peoria or Chicago who wanted to combine the trip with some sightseeing. Most of the real New Yorkers who were here when the Twin Towers were destroyed by the terrorists stayed home or demonstrated with me in front of the Iraqi embassy!!

BTW I thought that Italy's national sport was pinching women's behinds. No?


Entered at Tue Feb 18 04:52:05 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

Long Distance Operator

Subject: A Solution

Robbie Robertson is a wealthy man, fair to say? I'm sure he padded his ample bank account further with the latest orgy of reissues and the DVD resurrection of "The Last Waltz". Even though he "bought out" the other members of The Band in the late 1970's, I don't think even he could have imagined the future bonanza those records and that movie would yield. I think, as a good-faith gesture, it would be really magnanimous of him to cut a check for $500,000 each to Levon, Garth, and the estates of Rick and Richard.

Before you lambast me with the "Dreamer" label and accuse me of "living in Fantasyland", think about it. Robbie certainly could handle the $2 million hit, based on how much he's made re-packaging The Band over the last five years, and yet that small gesture would make everybody happy. Not just Levon, Garth, and the families of Rick and Richard... but me and thousands of other fans, too.

OK, commence with the "Pathetic Dreamer" rants...


Entered at Tue Feb 18 04:05:49 CET 2003 from spider-ti014.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.179)

Posted by:

Deeb

Subject: You are all missing the point

The point being that even if the money was divided equally at this late date, there is too much water under the bridge.

Money seperated two men who were, until that time, just like brothers. Just as the rest of the Beatles harbored resentment for John because he wanted to center his life around the woman he loved rather than the friends he loved, Levon was angry that Robbie wanted to stop traveling on the road.

When he reformed The Band...and yes, it was his initiative that got them back together...they weren't The Band. Ringo Starr recognized that after John Lennon's death if the rest of the group got back together, they would be "The Threetles", we all knew in our hearts that it wasn't "THE BAND", it was part of The Band. A big part, I will admit, but without Robbie Robertson they would never be The Band no matter how good the lead guitarist was.

The real crime, the true sin, is that Levon will hold on to his sinful pride to his grave, and Robbie won't make an overture for fear of being rebuffed. And the bond between two people that was so strong for so long was severed by...money. Now I ask you, which is the more valuable?

John Lennon said it all in "The Ballad of John and Yoko"...

"...Last night the wife said, 'Poor boy when you're dead, you don't take nothing with you but your soul'..."

I miss Rick, but I am sick to the bone because there aren't that many chances yet for these two to wise up and speak to each other before something happens and they wish that they had.

F*UCK THE MONEY...F*CK THE RECOGNITION...you know in your heart what you did and didn't do...and if that isn't enough brother-man all the money and writing credits in the world won't change that.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 03:39:10 CET 2003 from mcha-af037.taconic.net (205.231.30.36)

Posted by:

Lil

I just came across a brand new website out of Poughkeepsie NY that offers downloads of tunes for 50 cents apiece. One of the main featured artists on their very first web page is none other than Rick Danko. Both his "Times like These" cd, and his "Live on Breeze Hill" cd. (Also The Crowmatix "Flying High" cd). I wonder if anyone here is aware of this? Seems to me that if folks can download every tune from a cd for 50 cents, why would they _buy_ the cd? I just thought this was worth mentioning..and no, I won't post the name of the website. If anyone wants to look into it further, you can e-mail me at d_lil at hotmail dot com. Thanks.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 02:45:06 CET 2003 from 213-48-241-168.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.241.168)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Once more unto the breach McPutemup....

Obviously no real choice but to post support to my new found American cyber buddy Putemup and his magnificent rearguard action in defence of equity. Also a response to the apparent unwillingness of some on here to shift from what - in these unique circumstances that pertain to The Band - I sure am beginning to view as an apologist stance.

Got to say his has become such an increasingly frustrating topic - AND I'm 'supposedly' exiled.

Look, if people choose to ignore completely or misinterpret the essence of what myself and Putemup have been going to great pains to say then so be it. We have no control over other GB'ers opting for whatever reason to act that way.

Fact is tho, neither of us have EVER denied Robbie's pre-eminence as The Band's principal songwriter nor his technical, contractual and probably artistic rights to whatever money/kudos he has earned from that songwriting.

Both of us are simply devotees of THE BAND. Neither Levonista nor Robertsonian. So why else would we take such a stance unless it was in the cause of what we perceive as 'fairness'?

The fact that our 'take' happens to coincide slightly more with the Levonista stance is simply the way it's bound to fall because under the current delineation it is Levon and the other 'non or lesser songwriting element' that is suffering financially. Our 'take' is in no way influenced by Levonista slurs and submissions in this regard. If anything such slurs would tend to have the opposite effect. Certainly on my own stance anyway and I would guess Puemup's too.

The point we are both submitting is that from our position - which we both accept some clearly see as being at best 'holier than thou', at worst 'erroneous' - we feel there may well be a legotimate case for a technical and moral entitlement to some form of 'peculiar'/'dedicated' arrangement of royalty redistribution to recognise the completely exceptional circumstances of The Band's album song catalogue. Particularly on the first two recordings.

I think we both feel this relates 'technically' to the evolutionary process of how those songs emerged - including Richard's I would add, Pat - and 'morally' to the unique spirit of friendship The Band fostered particularly in those early days.

Both of us clearly realise this is a retrospective hypothetical scenario - possibly even anarchistic some might say - that will never happen without some unprecedented life-affirming turnaround by two intransigent people.

However, it is the way both of us find ourselves viewing it and just because it's a virtual cast-iron certainty it will never happen doesn't prevent myself and Putemup from seeing it the way we feel it should be.

Also, no matter how many times it is pointed out that in its strictest formal technical and contractual generally accepted sense we are mistaken, I have certainly not read anything at all on here which would remotely make me alter my stance for a more deserving equitable solution to The Band's finacial legacy. And - judging by his inspired hypothetical scenarios - the same would sure seem to go for Putemup too.

All that said, in such circumastances of veritable and utter impasse, it would seem to me we must all simply agree to differ on the matter.

I would clarify once and for all, however, that our joint opinion on what we both see as the equitable solution that could be achieved in regard to royalty distribution certainly does NOT - contrary to some of what has been implied - invoke within either of us ANY lessening of our regard for Robbie. Just as, conversely, it in no way increases our regard for any of the remaining members, living or tragically deceased.

Fact is, in my own case my admiration for them all could not be greater than it is now or has been for 35 years and I do most grievously resent any spurious and ill-considered insinuations otherwise. I am equally certain Putemup feels similarly.

By way of further explanation to anybody still not quite able to interpret the base essence of my own particular stance on the equitable aspect of this issue I would just say this.

A certain beloved member of my immediate family is a real onehundred percent sure bet tight-arse git. At least 3 of my close friends are the same. Just as they accept my over-generous yet highly emotional characteristics so I accept these people and their miserly characteristics for what they are. That is - so we're perfectly clear on this - mallard duck-like tight-arse gits who would not give you the steam off their shit unless you were first to negotiate some down payment with them. I tell them that to their face. They accept that it is the way they are. They equally accept that it is the way I am. In a similar way I would tell it to Robbie's face if ever such an opportunity were to arise that as much as I love the bones of the fella in my considered opinion he is yet another of those 'misguided-in-those-aspects-of-life-that-really-matter' tight arse gits. A corresponding if slightly differing base critique would also apply in respect of Levon's equally pathetic attitude concerning the feud too.

Hope that's clear.

:-o)

Hopefully see you all when the BWNWIT situation becomes clearer.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 02:45:40 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

PutEmUp

J.L.B.:Actually it shows support of the contributions made by Garth, Levon, Rick, and Richard, and support for the interests of the 2 survivors of the 4, and for the families of the other 2. So , I do not know why it would piss Levon off. Do you?


Entered at Tue Feb 18 02:43:33 CET 2003 from 213-48-241-168.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.241.168)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Ed Voci

Ed - don't forget though that half the Italians were there because they thought it was Easter Sunday :-o)

And the rest thought it was a free concert by Pavarotti

UK 1 - Italia Nil


Entered at Tue Feb 18 02:21:45 CET 2003 from spider-te041.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.191)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Voci, yikes!

I'm with Crabgrass.


Entered at Tue Feb 18 01:33:39 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

J.L.B.

Won't that,like, really piss off Levon?


Entered at Tue Feb 18 01:15:58 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-ti023.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.158)

Posted by:

PutEmUp

that was supposed to end "present it to Robbie"


Entered at Tue Feb 18 01:12:29 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-ti023.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.158)

Posted by:

PutUpYourDukes,PutEmUp,PutEmUp

Peter, I believe your example of Bob Dylan to be a poor one. But a hearty thanks to you, your thesis proves 2 of the points I have been making since Ed Voci opened the door on this topic. Ed, there is a special place in heaven reserved for you, where you will listen to the Band for eternity. However, you will share the listening room with Robbie and Levon. Now is that heaven, or is that hell? #1, the musicians, being the guys in the Band, got a per diem. They did get paid. Exactly my point. The Band members did not get paid by Robbie or his publisher, for their efforts. Pat and Peter, they also did not get paid by any other Band member who wrote a song. The songwriter and the publisher received everything as far as songwriting and publishing credits and moneys went.That is fine. But pay the hired help. Or share, but keep control and credit,separate issues. Share the wealth. When you are dealing with artistic efforts on the magnitude of what the Band guys did, be it whichever 4 depending on which song,you should reimburse them. It could be with a per diem, could be with a cut, or both. #2 the fact that when levon skipped, and if I remember, Konikoff or Jones replaced him, the replacement drummer got meals while the Band guys were not getting that, also proves a point of mine. If you don't ask, in the music business you sure won't get it.As street smart as the Band guys were, Robbie was the only one with any business sense beyond getting a fair rate from a club owner, and getting the club owner to pay up.. And at that stage of the game he was probably smart enough to say these are some major league opportunities and lessons I am getting here, so i ain't gonna rock the boat right now. Guys, let's take what we get, and be glad we are getting it. Now in the case of the replacement drummer, he had probably been arouned the big leagues longer, had a manager who was looking out for him, had done a lot of N.Y. or L.A session work, been on these kind of tours before and knew the deal. The Band guys did not have a manager in their corner yet.This was about the time Albert came into their lives, and you can be sure that if he in fact was already their manager, he was more interested in Bob's interest at that point. I do not doubt that the guys in the band at that time were considered excellent musicians, but a liitle bit of bumpkins.

Also Peter, you are ignoring the fact that at first, only Levon and Robbie played with Dylan. The other guys were allowed to come along for the ride in the beginning. And if i am not mistaken ,Garth may not of always went along.

You are also misconstruing my analogy. I am talking about an unknown singer/songwriter, which in effect, Robbie was. and as far as Capitol records goes, and the fact that the guys had some stuff released and Robbie had had some publishing, my point is this might of well been a pygmie publishing, record manufacturing and distribution co. as far as the other 4 guys went. On Big Pink, possibly for the Brown Album, they did not know about business yet.They did not have any conception. They considered themselves damn lucky to be where they were and to get a record deal and advance monies. It was a paid experiment and chance to make the music they wanted to for all 5 of them, but Robbie was the only one who knew the true monetary potential. And he should of explained the facts of life to his brothers who were slower to catch on. I bet you there is a huge part of him that wishes he did.

Wacker(Wackadoo is comparable in my neck of the woods), Ed Voci, what do you say, we, as fairminded Band fans, execute a petition to have signed by fairminded Band lovers the world wide, and after we have sufficient signatures and publicity present it


Entered at Mon Feb 17 16:03:23 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-tl012.proxy.aol.com (64.12.107.152)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois (only 6,000 in Chicago cuz everyone else went to NYC)

Subject: Fred, Peter Viney, Ben Pike, Crabgrass

Fred, (ma Donnamia! Che cazzo questo Peter Viney! Roma e la citta eterna, London e un gabinetto!), do you believe this very fine gentleman Peter Viney and his very fine London challenging Rome for the lead in this weekend's truly historic anti-war protests?

Ben, luv ya.

Crabgrass, you get one pass on the Goombah-bashing. :-) Get the other half of your head out of the past, out of the movies and worry about the current U.S. fascists, high and low. I quote fascist Colin Powell from 1992 on U.S. foreign policy when he was drafting, along with fascist Cheney and fascist Wolfitz, the doctrine of preemptive war and U.S. supremacy over the world, signed as official U.S. policy by fascist Rumsfeld in 2002 but NOT campaigned on by Bushron in 2000: "I want [the U.S.] to be the bully on the block". And this is the so-called "dove" Colin Powell(a charade, I'm convinced). Now, what happens to bullies?

Justice, then peace. Ed Voci edwardvoci@aol.com

P.S. By the way, Fred, this last was the point I was making on Oprah's show about the war, where I tussled with with the NYTimes' Tom Friedman, when I was preempted by a commerical break---a plug for Andrea Bocelli's new CD, so I wasn't too sore! :-) The preemptive war/world supremacy doctrine's decade-long history is spelled out nicely by David Armstrong in Harper's Weekly Oct.'02. I will mail a copy to anyone who wants it.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 15:42:56 CET 2003 from mcha-ag037.taconic.net (205.231.148.228)

Posted by:

Lil

Joe: I echo your sentiments, and may I add: Damn groundhog!

Anybody out there in Europe catch sight of Garth? Please post! Thanks.

And now, back to the 'feud'..yaddayaddayadda...


Entered at Mon Feb 17 15:26:18 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Joe

Location: Blizzard of "03"

C'moooooooooonnnnnnnnn spring !!!!!!


Entered at Mon Feb 17 13:44:00 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Subject: http://theband.hiof.no/albums/easy_rider.html

Jan, it will be useful to add performers beside the songs in the webpage

I watched Easy Rider only because of "The Weight", The Band version (absent in all soundtracks), thanks in advance


Entered at Mon Feb 17 13:39:06 CET 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp189978.sympatico.ca (64.229.1.137)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Fred and Crabgrass / Ed

Fred: If you only knew his other half.........;-D

Ed: Many thanks for sharing the great photos of the world protesting....War.....What is it good for?.......Nothing!!!!...So many Italians in this GB....So....Band connection.....Dom Troiano.....former Hawk!.....Still think and smile when I remember him performing "Change Is Gonna Come" at Massey Hall for the Hawk at one of his tributes!.....He's so fine.....:-D


Entered at Mon Feb 17 12:45:46 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: Italian Counting

Regarding yesterday's march..Roman police had the number at around 1 million, while the organizers said it was close to 3 million.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 12:35:18 CET 2003 from 189.ppp138.rsd.worldonline.se (213.204.138.189)

Posted by:

Woodlark

Location: Nordic Countrues

Subject: Jazz/Crabgrass

CRABGRASS; Well said, what has happened to the jazz? The biggest North European Jazz Festival in my Finnish home town anno dazumal is now a festival for "afro-american-cuban rhytm music" with Paul Simon and Little Richard and Bob Dylan and John Mayall. But dear Crabgrass, let's face it, we are dinosaurs! The jazz is basically dance music - not only intellectual avant garde.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 12:16:06 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: Easy Rider

Jan: your webpage

http://theband.hiof.no/albums/easy_rider.html

the picture is 2000 album, my last link, The Byrds

the comment is 1969 album, new link, Smith

Thank You


Entered at Mon Feb 17 11:02:53 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

E N

Web: My link

Subject: SHOCKING : APOCRYPHAL movie soundtrack MCA CD

Ray: thanks, the Boss & all the posts

David, Peter, Lars, Charlie....the link... please -):


Entered at Mon Feb 17 10:40:34 CET 2003 from du-tele3-226.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.226)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Backing groups & marches

Mr Dukes: so you’re in this great band, couple of singles out, one on Atlantic which is a great label (not a hit yet), you’re playing 7 nights a week. Then this songwriter comes along and says stuff that, I’ll pay you to be my backing group and do MY songs. You’re going to have to rearrange them all because several were written for solo guitar, and you get on and do it yourselves because I don’t like rehearsing. You get a good wage, but no per diem – you find that yourselves. (He doesn’t tell you that when your drummer leaves 3 months later, the replacement guy will get the wage PLUS a per diem). So do you ask for a share of the publishing? And what would Bob Dylan have said to the Hawks in 1965 if they had? Two words, I suspect, and the second would have been ‘off.’ ‘

I wanted to buy every British Sunday newspaper yesterday to cut a collage on newspaper accuracy. All had a figure in their headlines for London’s march. These ranged from ‘half a million’, 750,000 (News of The World), 1,500,000 (Mail), two million (Mirror), ‘many millions’ (S.Times), and one even had ‘up to 5 million’. The Sunday Sport had a picture of a topless girl instead as usual. It was a lot of people whatever. Police estimated over a million. Most organizers double the police figures which are conservative. So whether Italy had 2.5 million or not is dependent on journalistic enthusiasm.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 10:33:01 CET 2003 from 172.red-80-58-4.pooles.rima-tde.net (80.58.4.172)

Posted by:

Juanma

Location: Madrid, Spain

Subject: jm

Great web site! Great band!


Entered at Mon Feb 17 09:53:12 CET 2003 from 172.red-80-58-4.pooles.rima-tde.net (80.58.4.172)

Posted by:

Jota Eme

Location: Madrid, Spain

The best site I've ever seen. One of the most important rock and roll band and lots of information about it. Great!!


Entered at Mon Feb 17 08:17:59 CET 2003 from cs242226-192.houston.rr.com (24.242.226.192)

Posted by:

laura holt lorfing

Location: h

Subject: poop

same poop..... different day.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 08:11:23 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Crabgrass: I thought so.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 07:56:11 CET 2003 from 1cust5.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.5)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

The other half.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 07:17:18 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Italy has a strong left-wing media....puts the American Left to shame.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 07:08:10 CET 2003 from 225.16.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.16.225)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Ed Voci, Ben Pike

To Ben and Ed: great posts!

To "Mullah Omar": anyone can hide behind an alias...if you're proud of your country and your views, why not bring it out in the open and use your real name like us "traitors"?

rpence3@sunflower.com


Entered at Mon Feb 17 06:53:03 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Crabgrass: which half is Italian?


Entered at Mon Feb 17 06:44:55 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

Any weasel in this room who questions my love of country for non support of our marginaly legit, uttlerly incompentant gang of oil company influence peddlers, by jingo, I direct your attention to the tail of my shirt! Italy, by the way, has an absurd bought and paid for right wing media, even worse than ours, which probably leads to a sharper backlash among the people. But I won't wipe your sad sour grapes in your faces too much, what a great weekend to be a member of the human race, and to salvage some justifyable pride in being American, dispite the international jokes now at the stearing wheel.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 06:23:38 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

PutEmUp

Subject: Smoking Material

Pat, that last post of yours was alot better , I like the jovial spirit. Chances are, that without the internet between us, we would be friends. By my last few posts that would not be apparent, but I did cut you slack for a long time. Time is up, that's all.Our positions are closer than you think. Difference is I usually admit when I see creedence in something you have to say. Now you may see no creedence in anything I say, but, bear in mind i am saying the Band is a special case. Any other cases, I am with you 100 per cent. And even in this case, I see creedence in some of your points.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 05:55:33 CET 2003 from 1cust141.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.141)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Jazzfest / Italy

Sure, jazzmen Bob Dylan, Crosby Stills & Nash, and L.L. Cool J seem to fit in but what about the rest of those pop, rock, and country names? Maybe it's time to re-name that festival.

Soccer #1, but I'd say Italy comes in a much closer second at backing fascist dictators - Hitler, Mussolini, and now Saddam Hussein. Of course, they're pretty good at supplying the world with Mafioso too. (I'm 1/2 Italian btw.)


Entered at Mon Feb 17 05:55:47 CET 2003 from spider-ta072.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.77)

Posted by:

PutEmUp

Pat , you made a poor assumption when you decided that my songwriter did not sing. Read the post again. The songwriter approaches your band and says "I think you could sing them ( the songs in question) far better than I could..." Now, he just said he sings. Maybe he is a good singer, maybe he is as good a singer as Robbie. Robbie "sings" on records, does he not. And he does sell a lot of records. So please,if you are going to attempt to denigrate my posts, at least be accurate about it. Or if you were accurate, would that prevent you from answering me in the manner you wish to approach this subject? It is very possible that your deciding that the singer/songwriter did not sing was just so you could avoid answering my question and still appear to be intelligent.

Honestly, I find the biggest drawback to this guestbook is the refusal of people to fight a fair fight.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 05:40:31 CET 2003 from spider-ta072.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.77)

Posted by:

PutEmUp

Pat, let's get back to the pymie publishing, recording and distribution company. Now that you have a better understanding, and you realize that my songwriter has the good fortune that every creative artist desires, that of financial backing and creative freedom, what would you say. Would you pick choice A), B), C), or D). Or do you still refuse to play ball. I can drop this discussion any time you want to. If that is what you prefer, just say so. But please don't insult my intelligence by not answering and getting on a high horse. I have not pulled that crap on you.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 05:31:38 CET 2003 from spider-ta072.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.77)

Posted by:

PutEmUp

Pat, I have noticed how you have a tendency to get upset when people don't answer the questions you ask. Now I am noticing how you hasten to denigrate my positions instead of engaging in debate. You seem to feel that your course of discussion is the only one to take . I posed a hypothetical question. Hypothtetical being the operative word. Also, in my hypothetical case, I did not say if the songwriter had a good deal, or a bad deal. I did not say if the deal had substance. For all you or I know the songwriter could be financed by a tribe of pygmies that stumbled on a plane that crashed carrying mafia drug money. The sole survivor of the plane crash is rescued by the pygmies, and he spends the rest of his life taking care of the tribe. His one frivolity is venturing into the music business. he discovers our songwriter and decides to back him.The pygmies , by the way, in the long run prove to be marvels at record distribution.

So, my high falootin, high strung guest book compatriot, not getting the gig is not necessarily the case. In your world , maybe, in my hypothetical pygmie populated world, it is possible. But, ya know, there are all kinds of deals, publishing, recording, etc. Not just one kind. You should know that. More and more kinds of deals pop up. Maybe they are not the kind I or you would like to have, but they exist.

Not everything is only the way you want to see it bub.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 05:18:10 CET 2003 from dialup-65.56.136.70.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.56.136.70)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Putemup, I will admit that, 20 years ago, I might have asked for the smoking material no matter what the final decision was.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 04:57:29 CET 2003 from dialup-65.56.136.70.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.56.136.70)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Putemup, I hate to be the one to tell you, but you are living in a dream world. A good songwriter who doesn't sing and is not in a band would be signed to a publishing company who pitches those songs to singers and bands who need songs. A good songwriter who sings and has a tour usually auditions musicians to do the tour. As far as musicians demanding publishing because they're singing somebody else's songs, that's just crazy. Sorry. It's close to extortion, and trust me, you wouldn't get the gig. First off, the songwriter is already giving up 50% of his publishing to the publishing company. And you want another 25%? No way in the world is a songwriter giving up any of his publishing to a singer. Wait, i take that back. Really big singers, who can assure you making big bucks if they sing the song, might get a piece, but a songwriter would be happy with the results. You get a song on a Dixie Chicks CD and you are a happy songwriter. Musicians would be thrilled with a good weekly check and a per diem, i.e. cash every day for food, etc. Hell, do you think Chuck Leavell gets publishing for playing on Rolling Stones records and tours? Bottom line: a good singer is thrilled to get a good song, because a hit means performance royalties, more and better gigs, nicer hotels, etc.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 04:21:46 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Jazzfest This Year...... Some Artists Revealed Today

I wanna got to New Orleans for Jazzfest this year. Some of the people appearing are:

Fats Domino, Bob Dylan, Allen Toussaint, LL Cool J, Ornette Coleman, Lil Romeo, Crosby Stills & Nash, Gladys Knight, Carlos Vives, Sam Butera, Joe Cocker, Al Jarreau, Vernel Bagneris, O’Jays, John Mayer, Neville Brothers, Buddy Guy, Lucinda Williams, Irma Thomas, Widespread Panic, Ben Harper, Angelique Kidjo, Richard Smallwood, Herbie Mann Reunion, Nicholas Payton, Los Lobos, Galactic, Gerald Levert, Cowboy Mouth, Cassandra Wilson, Buckwheat Zydeco, ReBirth Brass Band, Zion Harmonizers, Gatemouth Brown, Crusaders Reunion, Kermit Ruffins, Mavis Staples, Chris Thomas King, Kassav, Hackberry Ramblers.

When you get Bob & Fats are the same festival.......well!


Entered at Mon Feb 17 03:52:01 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

PutEmUp

Subject: correction

last post, paragraph 2, line 7 should read :our other heroes. my intent is to include all 5 as our heroes.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 03:50:57 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Ed Voci: Soccer (football) may be Italy's national sport, but staging protests comes in a close second!


Entered at Mon Feb 17 03:30:16 CET 2003 from spider-tr083.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.213)

Posted by:

PutUpYerDukes,PutEmUp,PutEmUp

Subject: Try this hypothetical situation on you and your bandmates

Peter Stone Brown and Pat Brennan, I would appreciate if you would both answer this question honestly. If you do not want to answer it, just say so. I myself would like to bow out of this subject as well, interesting as it is the amount of time involved is keeping me away from other things that are more relevant to my life. However, you guys keep sucking me back in.

Sounds like both of you play in regular bands. If you don't, think back to when you did, and fast foward that band to current times. This is a knowing what you know now circumstance as far as the Band is concerned. I am going to pose a hypothetical situation to you, and trust that on your honor if you answer it you will answer honestly. If you do answer, of course you are answering from years of experience, something that regardless of Robbie's having prior writing and publishing experience, our heroes did not really have. I say,to a large degree and for various reasons they were ignoramus's on this issue. Pat, I know you disagree, and your position is they were grown men. I have to say that that is a valid point too.

Hereis the scenario. You have your band. A guy comes a long(could be a gal, for you she fans put there, can't forget you), says "hey guys, got some time, let me lay these songs on you." Presents you with a bunch of songs, bare bones. Floors you. Great stuff. Great lyrics, interesting tunes, bare bones, skeletons. Says to you, "hey , ya know, i really like your band. Would you guys record these songs with me. I think you could sing them far better than I could, and I think you can really flesh them out. By the way, I have a record deal. Will you guys do this for the performance roylaties? I can't pay you, but i can get you an advance on performance royalties that you can live on while we are making the record.What do you say, are you in?"

Peter Stone Brown, and Pat Brennan, what would you say? Would you say,A) "are you high man? get me some of that shit you are smoking?"

B) "ya know, I believe in your mateial, I like your songs, I get a good vibe, and as long as i can keep a roof on my head, I am happy, I'm in"

C) "well ya know, I dig the material, love your vibe, believe in the project, but I need to get paid, man. This is the real world, I got an old lady, a landlord, car insurance, man this sucks. I would love to help ya for free, man this sucks. I tell ya what,I want to do this, there is one of you and four of us. give us equal shares of the performance royalties, like you are offering. we'll go out and support the record with ya. And we will create killer arrangements for thos e songs of yours. But to do that, to drop everything, put ourselves in to this the way you want us to and know we can, you need to pay us scale for the time we spend bringing your songs to life. Now we ain't gonna do this in one day, ya know, this is a long project. But you will have a winner. You keep your publishing,, but use your publishing advance to pay us for our time. If the songs hit, they are your hits, but we need a guarantee man. otherwise I can keep my job at the bowling alley, and gig at night. That's reality man. I gotta live"

D) " well man, I would love to do this out of brotherly love, but I just can't man. We will do this for ya, but ya need to cut us in on the songs. Performance royalties of course, we are your band from here on in. We'll go out and do the gig s with ya man, support the record, but you want us, cause you want us, you believe we are the right people to bring your song to life. So we will do it, but ya have to cut us in on the songs, somehow. They originated with you, but you are asking us to put ourselves into them. So cut us in for an arranger's credit, and give us 25% of the publishing, in addition to the performance royalties"

I do believe that I have presented a fair and not unrealistic comparison. If you would expect a stranger to pay you, how would you expect a mate to treat you? At least as well as you would want to be treated by a stranger.

Honestly guys, I need to divorce myself from this. This is becoming tortuous. Let's try to wind this down before the Barnburner's cd is released.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 03:02:22 CET 2003 from 1cust29.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.29)

Posted by:

Mullah Omar

Location: Osama's Spare Room
Web: My link

Subject: No War On Iraq! - No War On Terrorism!

Heartfelt thanks from Osama and myself for the strong pro-Iraqi support here in the Band Guestbook! I know Saddam feels much the same way. Keep up the good work and may GOD free our captive brothers in Bahrain - see link.

Allah akbar - GOD IS GREAT!!!!


Entered at Mon Feb 17 02:45:53 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois
Web: My link

Subject: Hardly Just Another Saturday

Fred, Italy led the way with 2.5 million. See the link above for local scores around the world.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 02:42:12 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

jeagan

Location: WhitePlains/Albany, NY

Subject: Summer of 03' summer of 73'

This summer is 30 years my friends from that amazing day in upstate NY summer of 73' July at Watkins Glen, the Allmans will be in upstate at GOTV near Albany this coming July. DSO just got on board the next best thing to the Dead we have now since Jerry left us. And I'm sure the Zen Tricksters will be there. Would be great and fitting if Levon and Garth were to come up and do a set. Heck it's a hop from Woodstock, plus we owe it to these "kids" who never had the chance to be at Watkins Glen where I had the privelage to witness the largest gathering for an outdoor Rock festival of all time and with the three finest bands of all time. Hope to see you guys up there five months and counting. Lets relive Watkins Glen this summer afterall 600,000 was no small event.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 02:22:22 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

Thanks Butch!!! You just melted some snow & ice up here with that one...


Entered at Mon Feb 17 01:34:23 CET 2003 from hse-toronto-ppp3483537.sympatico.ca (65.92.92.184)

Posted by:

Cousin Paul

Location: Niagara Falls Canada

Subject: Fallen Angel

Good to here about the flowers at the gravesight. We will be their in the spring to do our annual planting. Can't wait to see all our freinds. If anyone out their has a margarita at The Landau think of us!!! See you freinds in June, Cousin Paul.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 01:21:43 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

J.L.B.

Location: TN

No matter what Robbie Robertson or anybody says,The Band will always be around,no matter how hard they try to get rid of it.Whenever you get a good group of sidemen that know the music and love it, the Band is there.It's the music,whether Robbie,or Jim(or both),or whoever, if it makes you fell good, that's what its there for.Music is a gift from God!


Entered at Mon Feb 17 01:01:11 CET 2003 from dialup-63.212.131.109.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net (63.212.131.109)

Posted by:

Howard

Location: There's A Flood Out In California

Subject: Their Time Had Come

I agree with what someone else said earlier, it was the Band's time to break up. And with what Robbie recently said in BAM magazine about songwriting, well come on, "Islands" is no "Big Pink" or "Brown Album". With the quality of Robbie's 76-77 songwriting they had run their course.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 00:49:40 CET 2003 from pool-162-83-128-186.ny5030.east.verizon.net (162.83.128.186)

Posted by:

M.G. Krebs

Location: Westchester County, NY

Subject: Bruce B.

Me and my good buddy Dobie (a/k/a D.B.) took a ride to Chesterfield's in New Rochelle last night to catch Bruce Bruno, one time frontman for Levon and the Hawks. Dobie has been friends with Bruce for about 50 years, and he's always told me what a talent and a good guy he was. And, the thought of maybe hearing some stories about the old days was very appealing.

Bruce's lounge act is made up of about 50% DJ and 50% his live vocals on material ranging from Sinatra to Elvis to The Weight. Great singer. If you're in or around Westchester, it's a really fun way to spend an evening. He plays, I think, 3 nights a week in a couple of different places. Maybe leans a little heavy toward dance/disco for the tastes of some of the regulars here, but his following is a 40+ audience looking to dance, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Between sets, we chatted about his days with the Hawks. He still keeps in regular touch with Levon. He was there the night they split from Ronnie Hawkins. He loved Ronnie and had mixed feelings, but they became Levon and the Hawks featuring Bruce Bruno for a while. Then, he got a draft notice. By the time he got out, Big Pink was in the works, and the rest is history. If it hadn't been for Uncle Sam, who knows, maybe there would have been 4 great voices in what became the Band.


Entered at Mon Feb 17 00:43:01 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

butch

Subject: just another saturday

so,,,,,, it was a typical saturday gig,,,,@ the Turning Point,,,

i pulled up, Jimmy Vivino pulled up, pat & chris right behind,,,,, Big Joe had already set up the drums so we set up the electrical stuff & got the piano ready,,,,,Then as, the crowd started to filter in,, Levon showed,, hellos all around,,,,,

a writer was there for background on a cover piece he is writing on ALL the fellas,, & he brought Joe Queenan , the author,,,, fun guy,,,,

Sarli was late & jimmy V & Chris warmed up the crowd & stalled,,,, then Jeff got there ,, we set him up & off they went,,,,,,,

chris was on fire,,, just a ball of energy,, he knew just where he wanted the band to go & with Levon driving the engine,,, they went !!!!!!!

Jimmy V & Pat play off each other so seamlessly,,, & then V gets on the piano & all those johnny johnson gigs , something wore off,,

Levon had that crowd ( both shows SOLD OUT & PACKED )in the palm of his hand,, they cheered his every move,,,

the smart crowd knew Pat was scorching his guitar to ashes,,,,,jimmy v sang some ,,, & i got him to sing money whipped ,, a song he wrote with Levon during his cancer treatments,,,,@ the pond,,, "a lot of music biz philosophy there" jimmy said,,,then the 1st set was done & off to the dressing room,,,

young kids on vacation from minnesota, had their record signed, & hung with us,, as did other friends who came in & said hello,,, the crowds love for levon was so obvious,,,,\,n all you cynics, who sit here with your sarcasm & trivial facts,,, should see this scene,,, FANS paying their props to the man who wrote the book, ( so to speak ) & there were tons of his book to be signed,,,,

the 2nd set brought three or four spontaneous ovations,, once when chris went into mystery train from Mr Porter,, & Helm's beat & cymbal work was amazing,,,

like i said,, just another night of the blues,, the way it was meant to be played,, from the heart,,,,

catch the BB's @ the Bottom Line or Bodles Opera House next week,,, they'll warm ya up,,,,,,,,


Entered at Sun Feb 16 23:20:14 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

THIS IS A TRUE STORY. So, yesterday I heard "Cripple Creek" in Starbucks, right? O.K., today, in a very rare early morning treck to the discount drugstore, I'm killing time waiting for the little lady. Suddenly, the musak starts to sound mighty famil..could it be..... wait, yep, yes it is, no question about it.... "RIGHT AS RAIN" is now available in musak version down at your local whatever. Well, it won't do much for the rep of "Islands"; but I sure hope Levon doesn't start claiming he wrote it....


Entered at Sun Feb 16 23:09:25 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3613308.sympatico.ca (65.93.195.167)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Robbie Discusses Songwriting in BAM Mag

Chris Willman in BAM Mag again...

BAM: Is all that something you just have to accept and deal with in the '80s?

ROBBIE:.....The other thing is, I have this theory that since this kind of music began - with Louis Jordan and the Timpani Five, or wherever it began, with certain blues artists that were doing things that everybody stole from, since the early '50s - a lot of the ideas have been used up, a lot of great lines, a lot of great melodies, rhythms, everything. And it means that you have to search a little bit more. I don't think it's a bottomless pit. I think it's big, but I don't think it's bottomless. And it's harder to find great stuff, because a lot of times you'll be writing and working on something and you'll think "Gee, that's great, but doesn't it remind me of something?" So scrap that...next.

And so consequently, between those two things, things become a little bit more time-consuming. I'm writing and I think, "Oh, I've heard this before. Somebody's already done this, or something like it." And a lot of times it could be that nobody else in the world would ever know it but me, but at the same time, I just couldn't bring myself to say, "Aw, nobody'll bust me on this." I just couldn't do that. I mean, even repeating yourself, let alone somebody else...But it's true. A lot of great ideas and a lot of great pieces of inspiration have been used up in this music.

BAM: It's interesting to finally hear somebody say that. I had wondered for years if any artist ever thought there was a finite pool of new ideas that was especially shrinking now, in the 20th century, but until you, I'd never been able to get anyone to 'fess up to believing it.

ROBBIE: It's not an easy thing to say, actually, that there are only so many stars in the sky...But over this period of a million years, a lot of them have been counted already. To find a new star in the sky is pretty hard too.

BAM: Was this really the first time since the end of The Band that you'd actually sat down with the intention of writing an album? There are no uncompleted projects in your closet?

ROBBIE: No. I didn't have the desire to do it. After I did THE LAST WALTZ, I thought, "That ends that book. I'd like to write a new book, something else." It was just depression, that thing about "OK, it's time to write a record now, get in there, write some songs, and maybe you'll come up with something. You finish the songs, you've made the record, now get on the bus." I just didn't want to live that way anymore. So I deliberately didn't write any songs. I played all the time, I'd sit down at the piano or guitar and fool around with things, but not to write songs - just to fool around, keep in shape.

BAM: Writing songs was never an uncontrollable urge for you? It's nothing you have trouble keeping yourself from doing?

ROBBIE:.....I had no desire to make an album. I didn't think I'd ever make another record. And a lot of people who were making records from my same generation who kept plugging away made very mediocre records. And I thought, "I just don't want to do that. If I don't have to do that, I'd prefer not to. I'd rather say nothing." And to be very frank about it, I had nothing to say. And I'd hear other people's stuff and I'd think, "They've got nothing to say, either! This is a little bit of a drought we're going through right here, and I'd like to wait till it blows over, if I could."

Then when it came, it just came real naturally. I couldn't wait to get here in the morning and write. I would get here before 8 o'clock in the morning, and the place would barely be unlocked. That's how excited I was about writing the songs for this album. And I would work a little bit and I'd be thinking, "Maybe it isn't good enough, maybe this isn't the time," and by the time the next day would come around I'd have that thing again, and then I'd hit it, and then I'd find it and think, "Look out, this is gonna fly," and I'd be very excited about it.

But it's a painful process. I mean, some people say "Oh, I just sit down and it just comes out of me..." SURE. (Laughs) I don't know anybody it just comes out of, and anybody it "just comes out of" I'm suspicious of.

BAM: Were you conscious of a lot of pressure from fans and friends to return to record-making? Any popular artist who decides to put away his art for a while usually gets questioned, sometimes even resented, for being "unproductive".

ROBBIE: Yeah, I would hear it, but I felt it was my business, and I don't think you have to do that to be alive......


Entered at Sun Feb 16 22:41:09 CET 2003 from du-tele3-226.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.226)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: The Satanic Verses (Band version)

JTull fan started my line of thought …Think what would have become of The Hawks without Robbie. Imagine Robbie had disapeared in 1967. I think they could have made a living for an album or two on Richard’s great early songs (four being enough for an album, stretched out with more Dylan covers), but could he have sustained the output? If the drinking was inevitable in his future he would have been written off as ‘unreliable.’ Garth could have made a living anywhere – probably not in straight rock either, maybe second keyboards in Weather Report, pushing them to even higher levels? Then a move sideways into film music, ending up in a similar position to Ry Cooder, discovering various ethnic forms for the world. After 30 years of it, he’d be hugely successful, like his new best pals Ry Cooder and Randy Newman. Rick had the voice, but only one early song, but would have been a natural recruit for say The Eagles a few years later if he’d maintained all his 1966 contacts (actually I could envisage an alternative reality with The Byrds for a couple of years – with a reference from Bob - followed by 6 months with CSN&Y on bass, then The Eagles). That gives The Eagles a great singer on bass, making them even more unassailable, and he liked the country flavour. So definitely a good living there, possibly the best of the lot, and he’d have still written a few songs – maybe more without a single dominant writer. Levon had the unique voice and the ability- but would he have been more than an ace session man? He didn’t have the Dylan 66 tour kudos except at second-hand. In late 67, he wouldn’t have had the Dylan reference the others had earned either. Would he have become a film star without The Band? Maybe, he’d have followed Mickey Jones into acting. Would he perhaps have ended up drumming for the Cate Bros, known as the world’s best rock drummer only to a select few? Without Robbie’s songs to showcase his interpretative ability, would he have contentedly sung Caldonia and Stuff You Gotta watch for 30 years? He benefitted from what the other four did with Dylan- they found their sound there. No group makes it big without a major original songwriter, and Robbie was the man. It’s the songwriting that makes The Band in a different league to so many other combinations of brilliant musicians and singers. The songs gave them the chance to fulfill their potential. I think quotes from Rick and Garth admit that. And Robbie wrote the songs. True, the songs were presented to the world by the finest interpreters who worked in an unusually close way to develop the arrangements.

I agree with Ray that there’s a strange backlash here because Robbie is undoubtedly smooth, articulate and successful. His songs (and presentation abilities in the early interviews) made the difference for all of them, and for a time at least they were all rich. He pulled the plug. But you go back to that old comment. Here’s a super group composed of ex-members of The Band, The Beach Boys, The Beatles, Creedence and the Stones. Will they make it big? Step forward Levon Helm, Tom Fogerty, Mike Love, Ringo Starr and Bill Wyman. Judging only on their songwriting after the groups that made them big, I think we know the answer. Two great musician’s favorite albums, nothing very original on them. The second selling only 20% of the first.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 22:34:32 CET 2003 from 169.42.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.42.169)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Empty Now

In reference to your link to the ticket brokers who are overcharging obscenely for Springsteen tickets--no doubt that Springsteen has hired great people to manage his money and career, but these are the kinds of prices brokers set, not Springsteen or his managers, and as far as I know the artist doesn't profit from that. There are places on the web set up by Springsteen's fans where you can get tickets for face value, which on this tour is $75--having witnessed his show this past December, it's more than worth it.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 21:01:57 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny
Web: My link

Subject: Emmylou, The Dixie Hummingbirds & Four Canadians...

There is a biography of Emmylou Harris due out in April (titled "Queen of Alternative Country: Red Dirt Girl") that I look forward to reading. I was driving through the Woodbridge, Virginia area recently and recalled that Emmylou once lived there. I was playing the "Will the Circle Be Unbroken Volume 3" CD and--just as I drove by the site of what was once a flourishing country music bar called "Hillbilly Heaven"--the song sung by Emmylou played. I once heard that Emmylou was a teen beauty queen ("Miss Woodbridge") in her days there, and you can click the link above to confirm that her radiance is still strong all these years later.

Today's "New York Times Book Review" includes a review of a new book from Oxford University Press that devotes 370 pages to the history of the gospel group, the Dixie Hummingbirds (about whom Butch recently reported Levon's recording collaborations). The book traces the history of the group from their start in 1928 until their "retirement" in the late 1990s.

One unrelated point about something else I read the other day is about the four Canadian soldiers who were killed by "freindly fire" from American troops in Afghanistan last year (the first Canadian troops killed in battle in decades). The newspaper story I read claimed that most of the Canadian press covered this as their top story of the year, while the US media barely mentioned the story. I was wondering how the Canadians here in the GB feel about this. This site certainly shows just how important four guys from Canada can be to a lot of people.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 20:54:01 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: This royalty thing

So Ian Fleming creates James Bond. Sean Connery plays the character for a fee in the first movies. It is successful partially because of his portrayal. He leaves and Roger Moore replaces him, who in turn is replaced several times over, with each succeeding actor bringing their own interpretation to the part. Certainly, they take into account their predecessor's achievements, but they reinterpret the part as their own. Does the Ian Fleming estate deserve royalties? Of course. Does Sean Connery? Of course not. He did his bit, got paid for it and that is all he is owed. Ditto if, inevitably it will, a new actor is called on to playu Mr. Spock in a Star Trek movie. Yes, Leonard Nimoy adding important elements to the character's development, but ultimately it is owned by the Gene Roddenberry estate (33.3% in fact) and Paramount Pictures (the remainder)Future interpretors of The Weight, etc. may choose to acknowledge stylistic contributions of Levon, etc., but it is Robbie who rightfully gets the royalties. By performing vocals on songs that Robbie wrote, Levon, Rick, and Richard gained value in the recognizability, and marketability, of their vocals. What they achieved with that was mostly up to them, but should Robbie be compensated for the opportunity he provided, etc.? Yes, Robbie may have gotten the Lion's Share of TLW profits, but would Levon have gained his later film opportunities if not for the exposure TLW garnered for him? There are so many unquantifiable items involved to really make a fair, ultimate judgement.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 20:04:18 CET 2003 from user-2inimna.dialup.mindspring.com (165.121.90.234)

Posted by:

Peter Stone Brown

Location: Philly
Web: My link

Subject: PutEmUp, Give it Up

Putemup, you wrote:

"I have to ask the people reading this book who were not familiar with the payment of royalties on the cover versions end of the biz, do you feel different now? How would you feel if you were Levon, Garth, or the offspring of Richard and Rick , knowing that Joan Osborne just cut The Weight, hearing it on the radio, and knowing that all the money is going to Robbie and his publisher. That song would never of sounded the way it did without the efforts of all the 5 men involved."

You couldn't have proved my point any better. Who had this biggest hit with "The Weight"? Aretha Franklin.

Does her version sound anything like The Band's? Not at all.

By the way, this particular song happens to be owned by Bob Dylan's publishing company Dwarf Music.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 19:42:39 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: a musician who has managed his money


Entered at Sun Feb 16 17:52:18 CET 2003 from 169.42.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.42.169)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Pat Brennan

The only reason I can think of for Robbie rather than Richard being condemned is because of the social and cultural tradition of looking for scapegoats, and Robbie, with his prosperity and smoothness, makes an excellent scapegoat for some (too many) people.

So, that's the reason. I think it's a bad reason and destructive and confused, but that's it.

People don't want to accept that the Band's breakup, like its golden years, was a complicated affair. Singling out one person for blame is easier. Just like some people blame Yoko Ono for breaking up the Beatles. If you single out Robbie, you're on Levon's side. If you single out Yoko, you're on Paul's side. So there's a vicarious thrill to the blame game, too.

It's much harder to face what (I believe) are the facts: the Beatles and the Band were going to break up when they did, no matter what any one particular member did or didn't do. Their times had come.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 17:40:44 CET 2003 from dialup-67.28.44.178.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.28.44.178)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Putemup, and here I thought I was being succinct.

I'll say it again: Robertson says he wrote the songs attributed to him by himself. By claiming solo credits for their songs--including a number in Richard's case which helped define their approach and sound even though they weren't released at the time--the other writers in the group, particularly Richard and in some cases Rick, agreed with the attributions. Including Levon. Garth has said recently that this was the case and that the feud itself does not exist. Then, around 1983, Levon began to argue that this in fact did not represent what went on, that the songs were all written together. You think they should have done it differently. Anyone who argues your side has to deal with the uncomfortable fact that the other writers in the group agreed with the various song attributions, although Rick claimed later that he should have gotten some attribution for Twilight. Unless someone can explain why Richard is lionized and Robertson is castigated in some quarters for doing the exact same thing, I'll bow out of further discussion of this unfortunate yet interesting topic


Entered at Sun Feb 16 17:25:29 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Charlie/weather

Charlie, I assume you are in Northern VA and getting the two feet. Here in Richmond I can still see the grass as we have had nothing but sleet since yesterday afternoon, but now, ominously, it has turned into a hard rain which is freezing.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 17:08:29 CET 2003 from du-tele3-243.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.243)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Fallin' Rain

Calexico’s new ‘Feast of wire’ has a bizarre track set-up. There are 16 tracks, and 3 bonus tracks, but the bonus tracks are tracks 32, 33 and 34 with blank tracks from 17 to 31. Never seen this before! But the important news is that track 34 is a very good effort at Link Wray’s “Fallin’ Rain” – not as good as the original, but still well worth hearing.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 16:23:23 CET 2003 from spider-tm044.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.64)

Posted by:

Fallen Angel

Subject: Flowers in the Snow

Robbie...Levon...I don't know if you ever read any of these...but I am planting flowers in the snow...on Rick's grave...for his sake and in his memory please give up this feud which is only damaging both of you and speak to each other while you still have the chance


Entered at Sun Feb 16 16:20:44 CET 2003 from (68.169.14.90)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Snowed in Down in Old Virginny

Subject: Nora Jones

Pat: I've heard the Nora Jones CD thanks to my daughter. Jones is both a treat for the ears and--as Letterman says--"easy on the eyes." I still can't believe that she's Ravi Shankar's daughter, though...


Entered at Sun Feb 16 15:45:37 CET 2003 from 169.42.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.42.169)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Web: My link

Subject: Great new Bo Diddley article

see the above link


Entered at Sun Feb 16 14:47:55 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-tg013.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.153)

Posted by:

Joe

Web: My link

Subject: Levon Helm/Steven Tyler

There is a brief, but respectful mention of Levon Helm on the "Aerosmith" web site pertaining to the Radio City rehearsals and show. I hope the link above I provided can bring you there.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 13:21:22 CET 2003 from 213-48-245-148.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.245.148)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: PV/PB

Sorry Pete and Pat - you know I invariably admire ALL your postings - along with DP's and Hank's they form the 'specialist' heart of this forum - but those last ones of you both on the subject of RR's royalties didn't even begin to repel the arguments me and Putupyerdukes have been submitting re an equitable 'divvying up'. Especially the one about typeface - I mean come on Pete lad :-O).

Of course Robbie could still retain paternal control and the ensuing kudos if he were to rethink the whole royalty entitlement thing even at this late date. Moreover, it would incidentally as I said in my big post see such kudos rise inestimably amongst many of those who should really matter - genuine fans like me and Putemup - if he were to re-assess his 'stingeiness'.

For the life of me - given the way I view such things - I cannot see why time should have any more than a marginal effect on the underlying principle which - if mine and Putemup's comments do indeed have a foundation - remains as valid now as it did in 1968. Surely, a wrong is a wrong - if that indeed is the case as we maintain - no matter how long after the event.

I realise all this does depend on the criterion the particular individual chooses to apply but don't forget our argument hinges not only on a 'fairness' principle but also on the way we perceive the song catalogue of The Band to be a special case.

re Crabby's and others being pissed off at the talk of such a pivotal theme - respect and fair enough it's your prerogative after all - but not sure how you can justify denigrating people discussing it even if it has been done to death as you infer. The point is it surely can't have been done enough to death if the likes of me and Putemup - both long-time and heartfelt fans - are posting on it for the first time [especially when one of the two is actually on a self-imposed exile :-o)]

PS - BWNWIT - will you please post one way or the other 'cos the exile is clearly murdering me!!!

PPS Good on yer Crabby - I'll be there spiritually with you.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 08:17:03 CET 2003 from spider-tr064.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.204)

Posted by:

PutEmUp

Pat: Earlier i had 3 rather good,different posts written that I omitted, each cause I said to myself "Enough Already". I must say, this last post of yours is surprising, especially in light of what the people who posted about the bands being alluded to by me wrote about them and the fact that they split songs. I can only respond with a post similar in ineptitude and tone, and say "You mean like the Band?"


Entered at Sun Feb 16 07:26:48 CET 2003 from 1cust141.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (67.250.109.141)

Posted by:

rollie

Web: My link

Subject: for crabby


Entered at Sun Feb 16 05:28:20 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

Long Distance Operator

Web: My link

Subject: 2 Days Left

Click the link if you're interested in the movie "Festival!", documenting the Newport Folk Festival from 1965. Features Dylan, Bloomfield, PP&M, Howlin' Wolf, Seeger, Baez, et al.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 04:37:17 CET 2003 from dialup-65.59.11.135.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.59.11.135)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Calvin, I believe that's the only place which is unfortunate. When that song came out, WXRT here in Chicago jumped on it hard and played it alot, especially my good friend and superb DJ Johnny Mars, a huge Dylan/Band fan. I taped it off the air until I got the vinyl release. Would have sounded great on Stage Fright.

So I bought the Norah Jones CD for my beautiful wife. I can see how she'd cover Bessie Smith and IMND. Anyway, I noted with some surprise that most of the album was produced by Arif Mardin who in the day applied his production skills to a host of fabulous acts, including (Charlie Young, are you listening?) the Rascals.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 04:28:46 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Calvin

Subject: Between Trains

Where might this RR song be available other than the King of COmedy sountrack?


Entered at Sun Feb 16 04:18:29 CET 2003 from dialup-65.59.11.135.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.59.11.135)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Putemup, it might mean that they all write the songs together.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 02:58:54 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

Ray, quite right, do not confuse this classic with the "in name only" remake or the Kiss "Carnival Of Souls" album. The original was filmed in Lawerence by an industrial filmmaker, Herik Martin, who worked at Lawrence's Centron Films, a seminal force in the making of industrials. It was his only feature. The other key location is "Salt Flats" a hudge, spooky pavilion that was outside Salt Lake City. You get the whole history of this in the great double DVD red carpet treatment the film got from Chriterion. This features making of documentary's that were done by the local station in Topeka. Want to see what America looked like when the Hawks were touring in the early sixties? See "Carnival Of Souls"....


Entered at Sun Feb 16 02:34:07 CET 2003 from 169.42.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.42.169)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Ben Pike

Hi, I did a search on "Carnival of Souls" and turned up 2 versions, one from the early 60s, the other from the late 90s...I assume the first is the one you recommend? (The review of the other one described it as "not a movie, but something you have to scrape off the bottom of a dumpster.")


Entered at Sun Feb 16 02:13:47 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: Not The Weight but is The Weight

Listen to Ryan Adams' Answering Bell - if that isn't a dead knock tribute or rip off of The Weight, then I don't know what is! Good song obviously. I wonder if RR wanted to go to court on it, if he would have a legit case?


Entered at Sun Feb 16 01:49:52 CET 2003 from spider-ti054.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.199)

Posted by:

PutEmUp (Guess I Had To After All, This Is Fun, In A Sick Way)

Subject: JTull Fan

And also for Joan's version of The Weight.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 00:56:36 CET 2003 from 1cust83.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.83)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Give PEACE A Chance!

Apologies for interrupting the monthly discussion of "The Feud" and related seemingly inexaustible and endlessly fascinating analysis of the minutiae regarding songwriting credits and royalties.

I wish to announce that I will be doing my bit for World Peace this weekend by demonstrating in front of the Iraqi embassy here in NYC.

Hope some fellow GBers will join me - you can recognize me by my placard which will read - "SADDAM: Give Peace A Chance! Come Clean and Declare your WMDs to the UN Inspectors."

And now, back to more important matters!!


Entered at Sun Feb 16 00:37:41 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-tg032.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.162)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Song credits & Charlie Young

Charlie, thanks for the link. The wife and I just got our milk and bread ration from Food Lion. It is sleeting here now and all of Richmond thinks it is the rapture! Thanks for the link. Now, let me see, if Levon deserves credit for Joan Osborne's version of The Weight, do you think we should egg his house tonight in retaliation for Joan Baez's version of Dixie?


Entered at Sun Feb 16 00:35:05 CET 2003 from hvc-24-194-145-19.hvc.rr.com (24.194.145.19)

Posted by:

Lars

Location: Pine Bush, NY

Subject: Sonny Milne

TO SONNY MILNE: I enjoyed your post more than anything I've seen in the GB this week, make that this month. Not that I'm saying the Band GB should be used solely to talk about the Band, it would be too restrictive (and how much can be said about a group that broke up years ago and the surviving principals don't even play Band music anymore?) I'm not looking for anyone to agree with me (I don't care), I only wanted to say that I enjoyed that post. Sort of like listening to Sredni talk about the good old days.

Thank you, Sonny.


Entered at Sun Feb 16 00:31:33 CET 2003 from spider-te043.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.193)

Posted by:

PutEmUp

Subject: Last Post, I Can't keep My Dukes Up No More, LessI HaveTo

Pat: Like I said, it is hard to disagree with you on technicalities. But I am saying that i think everyone's songs should have received the same treatment. And it is interesting to note that people have mentioned many bands that do divide the songwriting royalties in an equal or at least more creative and equitable manner. Presumably that is so the band stays together and noone resents each other or has guilt.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 23:54:47 CET 2003 from du-tele3-243.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.243)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: The Same Old Song

Al- Wacker was a giveaway, but the use of “Anyroad …” was a signature in capital letters. But anyroad, I think the songwriter’s “moral right of paternity” (the official term, which is not gender-specific) is not about money primarily. It’s a relation to your composition which is inalienable and which you don’t give away. The lyrics come from Robbie. They’re deeply part of him. Take your Hillsborough story and think how you feel about it. OK, a mate comes in and says, ‘Hey, Al, you typed it in Helvetica – the eye flows better over a serif font. Change it to Palatino. Right. This paragraph’s a bit long – split it here. And that isn’t how you spell ‘separate’. Butty … dunno, American audience. What do you think about sandwich instead? Loses the feel? Probably worth it though.’ So how do you feel about your pal? Thanks, mate. Or, look I’ve just sold this to a magazine – take 25% and co-writing credit. It isn’t money that makes the difference to the choice at all, is it? (The pal would get zero credit from me, though I might buy him a beer).

Putemup- but does Joan Osborne use that distinctive drum part? Or the piano? Or the harmonies? I don’t know- but Diana Ross, Aretha, Spooky Tooth, etc didn’t use any of those bits but it was still ‘The Weight.’


Entered at Sat Feb 15 23:51:36 CET 2003 from hvc-24-58-236-168.hvc.rr.com (24.58.236.168)

Posted by:

Marcia DeMuro

Location: Walden, NY
Web: My link

Subject: Super Site!!

Super, super site!! Very well done indeed.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 23:28:12 CET 2003 from dialup-67.28.43.239.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.28.43.239)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Putemup, you keep framing these strange situations. According to your thinking, Rick should have been sharing his songwriting credits, Richard should have been sharing his, ad infinitum. The facts are simple: at the end of the Basement Tapes era, Richard was the more active writer in the group, and he was claiming sole authorship and publishing on those songs. If any one of those songs had the commercial impact of Robertson's songs, would you be insisting that Richard's people give up that money? I kinda doubt it. Also, Robertson was writing and publishing long before he met Grossman, long before he was in The Band.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 23:28:04 CET 2003 from h185n2fls303o1100.telia.com (195.67.191.185)

Posted by:

Paul

Im a beatle and Mccartney lover but i have to say i really love the bands album the Band. i love the song Rag mama Rag best but i rank it up among albums like Rubber Soul and Pet sounds, Blond on Blond


Entered at Sat Feb 15 23:03:43 CET 2003 from spider-ta012.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.47)

Posted by:

PutUpYerDukes, PutEm Up,PutEmUp

Subject: Mr. Wacker

Again, Mr. Wacker, hats off to you. You have earned my life long affection as a good hearted, high moraled bloke that i would not be concerned if need be I shared a fox hole with. Technicians abound in this world, people of true sentiment, moral values and the willingness to put their money where their mouth is, as is the case of sharing funds,and people with the foresight to universalize and extend their actions, are not as plentiful. By no means am I attempting to insult anyone else at all. Like you, I find merit and legality in their arguments. I even agree with most, possibly all (I WOULD HAVE TO READ THEM AGAIN), of the technical and legal points made by both Peters and Pat. But not in the case of The Band. As you, in almost every other case I would not disagree with them. In the case of the Band , however, the closeness of the men (more on that later), and the degree of effort and amount of time working on the songs was unique. As was the ultimate sound accomplished. And it could not have been the work of only JRRobertson put into it.

I have to ask the people reading this book who were not familiar with the payment of royalties on the cover versions end of the biz, do you feel different now? How would you feel if you were Levon, Garth, or the offspring of Richard and Rick , knowing that Joan Osborne just cut The Weight , hearing it on the radio, and knowing that all the money is going to Robbie and his publisher. That song would never of sounded the way it did without the efforts of all the 5 men involved. A lot of effort, which involved a lot of time. Not a little bit of work. Not coming to a session, feeling a song on the spot, and cutting it. Robbie could and should of given them a piece of the action, could of called it anything he wanted to, songwriting, arranging, or a toenail clipping royalty if he wanted.

Also, in answer to earlier comments and questions, some of this has been said already by myself and others, every one was under a spell. Everyone except Robbie. The entire situation was being manipulated by Albert, Robbie was separate and shrewd enough to think with monetary foresight, and to think only of himself. So Robbie went for Albert's machinations. The other guys, were not the type to bitch or moan at the time. Levon probably began to bitch and moan before too long, but also probably was not willing to break the Band up over it at the time.

One more thing, Robbie may have not ever felt the same closeness to the other 4 guys, as the other 4 guys felt towards each other, and who knows how close they felt towards him. it is obvious that he deve loped differently and in a different direction than they. without reading a lot of books again I can't say if I recall any notation indicating if that difference or uniqueness on his part had any early manifestation


Entered at Sat Feb 15 22:54:22 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-tg032.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.162)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

Lawrence Kansas, where the American classic "Carnival Of Souls" was filmed!

Heard "Cripple Creek" on the CD in Starbucks today. Little on the yuppie side, but it beats hearing the musak version in the grocery store, which I did way back in 79 or so....


Entered at Sat Feb 15 22:40:48 CET 2003 from 169.42.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.42.169)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Today's Uprisings

Millions of people around the world making a noise for peace...I was happy to play my part...here in Lawrence, Kansas, a town with a solid activist tradition--the Leonard Peltier Defense Committee's located downtown--there was a big rally, young people, old people, folks in wheelchairs, Vietnam Veterans, lots of dogs, folks carrying babies, playing guitars, folks from Asia Africa Europe along with the all-American Kansas rabble rousers--downright good people--stopping and slowing down traffic, causing the SUV's to slow down and maybe reflect, giving the cops some work--showing another side of America that doesn't make the news, The Revolution Will Not Be Televised--made me think of Allen Ginsberg, "Wichita Vortex Sutra" and then some words from Robbie Robertson, "Great, Great Songwriter"--

it's a powerful song, hard to pick just one section--

Can't predict the future

Can't forget the past

Feels like any moment

Could be the last

All you believers

Standing inside this room

Can't you see it coming

Shooting out across the moon

Save this place

In the valley of tears

By the river of time

From the weapons race

In the Book of David

In the holy night

When it's laid to waste

It will be written

By the children of Eden

I said save this place

And the Holy Ghost ("Showdown at Big Sky" 1987)

Feminism taught the world that "the personal is political"...No wonder there were so many women at the rally...Grateful Dead were right, women are smarter than men

rpence3@sunflower.com


Entered at Sat Feb 15 22:38:10 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny
Web: My link

Subject: More Musicians & Money...

JTull Fan: it would be wonderful to see Michael Jackson lose control of his portion of the Beatles' publishing rights--and even better to see Sir Paul grab it back.

Click the link above for a USA TODAY article from two years ago about a musician who has managed his money much better than most (with a lot of help from his wife). I imagine that those Hopper paintings have kept their value a lot better than those stock holdings since then...


Entered at Sat Feb 15 22:09:28 CET 2003 from du-tele3-243.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.243)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: PROs

Performing Rights Organizations vary to the extent that I've heard of receipts differing by a huge factor (10 times) when co-writers are signed to different organizations. Some are just far better at winkling out the foreign receipts. We authors have a similar rights association for photocopying of books which sadly only a few countries pay up on (Thank you UK, Canada, Australia, France, Denmark, Germany for your honesty!) Thumbs down to the USA, Japan for not paying up! Anyway, it varies hugely depending on your PRO.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 22:02:10 CET 2003 from 213-48-244-131.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.244.131)

Posted by:

Al Edge [aka Wacker to his mates]

Subject: 'Witty' retorts

Awrite Witty lad - no prizes though - I'm sure from the sheer length of the posting that most regulars at least had the same suspicions as your goodself - PV certainly and I know dear old Fred definitely did.

No I'm not really breaking my stipulation as you infer. Well I suppose I am by a strict criterion - but, really, no.

That lengthy Robbie/Levon thing I wrote about 6 months back when there was yet another outbreak of the rift war on here but I never posted it back then as by the time I'd finished the blessed thing the outbreak had subsided and I certainly didn't want to be responsible for kick-starting it again.

No what I meant by the essence of my 'big post' stance last month was posting 'for fun' basically which is how my particular take on any of these confounded forums has to be and what I most like to do. Pissing about - that sort of thing. And that Robbie/Levon thing was certainly not fun. It was heartrending and soulsearching - and it was meant to be, my cyber friend, because that's how I see that awful rift in what has been for 35 years one of the most precious things in my life.

In fact, not that dissimilar in principle, at least, to the stupidity of the one that caused me to take what some - possibly yourself included - perceive as a far too highly principled stance. Maybe too high and mighty too some might say. Maybe so but I haven't seen a BWNWIT post since then so I assume he IS still banned or else feels that Jan is still banning him in spirit if not actually technologically.

So, I'm afraid, this will be the exception to the rule I made - not making a big deal about it but there you are.

Yes I'd love to come back but no - I won't be until BWNWIT is 'free' or 'freed' to return - hopefully along with Amanda and Roz - the two other wounded souls of this GB.

Re the wacker post - well a wacker is an old term for a scouser so again no prizes to PV who would have well known that. The reason I posted was because I agreed quite passionately with an awful lot of the emotional side of what 'Putupyerdukes' was saying and simply did not want to let the opportunity pass without giving support to that particular stance - which not surprisingly 'Putupyerdukes' seemed to be pleased about. I didn't use my name because...well who really gives a shit?

Technically, contractually and probably in most other respects Pete Stone Brown, PV and Pat B may well be on the button with their submission about Robbie's entitlement to those songwriting royalties. Certainly I can offer no argument - nor would I ever want to - about Robbie's role as THE songwriter of The Band.

Quite simply HE WAS.

And I'm absolutely and utterly fine with that. I love the fellow. Just as I love all the others. EQUALLY - as THE BAND as an entity would have wanted I'm sure.

Nor can I take real issue with the strict contractual interpretation that Pete Stone Brown, PV and Pat B and others, too, put on Robbie's entitlement arising from that role.

However, just in case this past year or so anyone's been missing the point of my existence on this godforsaken shite-ridden coil - that's planet earth by the way not the GB - I really am a highly emotional sort of fellow. I have never been able to look at life through a detached unemotional lens. Sure it can colour my judgement - and sometimes I regret that it does. Equally though sometimes I'm glad it does. I guess whichever way I blow in such circumstances it's simply the North Liverpool Scouse thing I was born with.

So, as far as I'm concerned, those guys in THE BAND were mates - beyond the level that most groups - or most people for that matter - ever get to achieve. To me the term and the inference of being 'mates' means an AWFUL lot. It involves loyalty, sticking together through thick AND thin, divvying up [sharing equally] etc etc. To me and people like me it's up there with family - almost. As such I take a real emotional view of that attachment those boys had and the ensuing emotional commitment that I perceive should have accompanied it.

I would never leave a mate of mine in a position where I felt he was not getting a fair divvy of what we'd earned together as 'mates' no matter how much more I might have actually contributed. It's how I was raised and what I was steeped in. And so I am simply applying that same criterion to Robbie and the others.

I'm not saying I'm right to do so. Who the hell am I to judge that? I'm simply saying that's how I'd expect the emotional ties of being true mates to influence how those mates would divvy up and when it doesn't happen in that way then I reserve the right to express my disillusionment that it wasn't conducted in such a manner.

THAT'S were I'm coming from emotionally - rightly or wrongly. Some might say 'remove the rose-tinted specs'. Others might say 'good on yer pal'. Frankly, it matters not because it will likely never influence anything one jot. It is, however, how I see it and to me that really DOES matter.

All of which just leaves my own technical observation I mentioned in the piece - again just my opinion - that Robbie's songs [and indeed Richard's for that matter for just try and imagine 'We Can Talk' by ANYBODY else but The Band] would quite frankly never have been anything like the same entities outside the confines of The Band's interpretation of them. Indeed, the same could be said for possibly the entire Band catalogue up to NLSC.

I cannot apply such a stringent exclusion to any other artist's catologue that I can recall. And I really do see that - technically - as a special case worthy in itself of special consideration OVER and ABOVE my own emotional 'mates-divvying up' angle.

As regards Pat's points about the others behaving no differently from Robbie in respect of their own royalties? Sorry Pat but with respect I really do see that quite clearly and certainly don't see it as any strong argument against some far more equitable re-distribution of Robbie's disproportional chunk.

Fact is I'm bloody sure that the others, given just the tiniest smidgeon of opportunity, would only have been too willing to forego their own 'tecnically earned' royalty share for a more emotionally founded 'mates-like' share of Robbies huge chunk. I mean, is the Pope Catholic or what?


Entered at Sat Feb 15 19:58:28 CET 2003 from user-2ininb2.dialup.mindspring.com (165.121.93.98)

Posted by:

Peter Stone Brown

Location: Philly
Web: My link

Subject: royalties

ASCAP, BMI AND SESAC are all Performance Rights Organizations. They collect songwriting royalties. They collect from some radio stations, they collect from performance venues, restaurants, bars with jukeboxes, stores playing music anywhere they can. Venues whether bars, coffeehouses, concert halls, clubs etc. DO NOT provide a list of songs played. It's based on a percentage of the capacity of the venue, how many nights a venue is open etc. They do not monitor what once were known (in the US anyway) as college stations. So depending on which PRO you're signed up with, royalties may vary or be none at all. However, none of the PRO's monitor specific songs unless that song (or the artist) ends up hitting big. Many of the artists people who contribute to this guestbook listen to (aka "Americana" artists) rarely see songwriting royalties because the PRO's do not monitor the stations which play them. While all radio stations are required (or were when I was in radio) to log every song played, the PRO's don't send someone around to every station to view the log. The PRO's sometimes work against their own best interests and are known to harass and hassle smaller venues such as coffeehouses with unreasonable rates often causing these venues to close, eliminating a place to perform for up-and-coming songwriters. But the way it works is the PRO's establish a yearly fee and venues are required to pay it. All these fees are then divided up and distributed to all the songwriters belonging to a PRO. However many songwriters see nothing at all.

The Harry Fox Agency is totally different. They are a clearance agency and anyone recording a song they didn't write has to go through them to get permission to record a song.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 20:36:21 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-tg021.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.156)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: 'Oh, YOO HOO! I'll take that one too!' Michael Jackson

Charlie, Michael Jackson may actually have NOT handled his money so well. Sotheby's is reportedly suing him for unpaid purchases, Sony is reportedly attaching his Beatles publishing holdeings for loan collateral, and Barbara Walters last week said his worth is down to a couple hundred million, in spite of his claim on the same program that his wealth is in the billions. That, and he is without a recording contract, his last albums were relative flops, and he seems physically and emotionally unable to tour to any great degree. As a cowrker mentioned to me earlier this week, where were his legal and financial advisors when he negotiated his recent disasterous interview? It would seem that there is nobody in his life with the moral authority to sit him down and say 'Michael, no!'. Unfortunately, he may have embarked upon an irreversable downward spiral that is ready to dwarf that of Elvis.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 20:20:16 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old, Snowy Virginny

Subject: Musicians & Money & More...

Peter: your comments about musicians who refuse to "grow up" (the Peter Pan syndrome) and Michael Jackson in recent posts made me realize that the totally insane King of Pop does at least have enough grasp of reality to manage his money. I can't think of many other musicians who have continued living lives of excess and eccentricity yet managed to amass a large, stable fortune. Presley comes to mind, but others such as the Stones and Elton John have really "grown up" over the years. Bruce Springsteen is one of the few major league rock musicians who was a fully functioning mature adult from the start.

Empty Now: that Catholic interpretation of "The Last Waltz" was really remarkable. I'm glad the author didn't try to tell us that Joni Mitchell was playing the Virgin Mother, though. Now Emmylou I would have believed...


Entered at Sat Feb 15 20:17:37 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: sins of the father

whilst researching robbies roots, came upon an expression, "jewish sharpie". this was a reference to the occupation of robbies father. does anyone know what a "sharpie" does or will do, types of people he associates with? can a sharpie make it to the "top", if so are there any current examples?


Entered at Sat Feb 15 19:34:34 CET 2003 from du-tele3-243.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.243)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Live performance

Don't know if it still happens, but at gigs in the UK a band would be handed a performing rights sheet to complete. Any band with a record out would simply list their own compositions and forget the rest! Those without a record, would list their favourite artists.

Back before The Beatles, British radio was odd because Musicians Union rules severely restricted airplay of records, insisting on live music for over half the time. So the BBC Light programme would have a studio band (Don Lang & the Frantic Five?) performing covers of hit records live in the studio. But in those days the BBC's star comedy actor was a ventriloquist with a dummy. On radio. I always wondered whether he actually sat at the mic with the dummy or left the dummy in the box!


Entered at Sat Feb 15 19:18:32 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

A Good Reason for the Mercy of TLW (Please no Religious comment)


Entered at Sat Feb 15 19:13:06 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-th034.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.34)

Posted by:

PutEmUp

Subject: Jerry

Quick answer to something you and Peter posted about. I am rushed. There are many kinds of royalties. BMI collects and distributes roylaties for radio airplay. Radio airplay consists of the publishing and songwriting halves. Royalties are 200percent. 100percent of the songwriting, and 100 percent of the publishing. The interesting thing is that the more airplay a song gets, the more the royalties paid per each time the song receives airplay. Right now my memory cannot be accurate on that, I have not digested that enough to know the multiples, but I want to say it can be as much as four times normal airplay royalties. BMI also would pay the desrving party on an estimate of how many livecovers of the songs in question are performed in public. This is contributed to, supposedly, by venues where live performance occurs.

Performance royalties are based on record sales. In the case of a writer /publisher of a new recording of his and thier own new songs, the label would or could pay an advance on sales. In the case of a new recording of a cover version, the label in question would have to pay up front royalties based on th e number of copies being pressed. That is paid throught he Harry Fox Agency, or direct deals can be made as well.

That is a cut and dried and simplified version of a more complex issue.

Pat Brennan: No doubt that the appearance of excitation is the result of the internet!


Entered at Sat Feb 15 18:40:01 CET 2003 from du-tele3-243.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.243)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Mechanicals

Jerry- I’m not fully aware of the details, and hopefully others will correct any errors (writing not composing is my area), but composers enjoy mechanical royalties, so-called because they’re fixed, and collected by collection agencies like ASCAP and BMI. Performers will have a royalty on record sales, which varies and is negotiable. The composer also picks up a fixed amount for mechanicals per track. So, for example on The Band’s compilation CDs, The Moon Struck One would attract the same mechanical as The Weight. This was why artists would often do a song by someone else as the A-side of a single, but have a track by themselves (if they were savvy) or by their manager (if they weren’t) on the B-side. Thus Cilla Black’s husband was said to write all her B-sides. B-sides attract the same royalty on SALES as the A-side. But then there are also mechanicals on airplay, TV play etc. which only affect the chosen track. I am amazed to hear that one Sting song earns that much – I guess it would be Every Breath You Take. Someone once said that mechanicals are also due when a record is manufactured, while normal royalties are only earned when a record is sold. (Big difference). Is this true?

In Robbie’s case, if you look through his credits you’ll see that he wrote the Touchstone Pictures Logo tune. Don’t know whether it’s the current one, but if so, I would guess that it attracts a small mechanical every time a Touchstone picture is shown in theatres and every time a Touchstone video or DVD is sold. If this is so, then it is probably his most lucrative composition (and wasn’t researched with Levon at the Woodstock Library J). This is why the absolute plum composing task is writing the theme to a regular TV show. The Friends theme must be worth a fortune. I read somewhere about the guy who wrote a BBC News theme that was broadcast for 25 years, many times a day. His mechanicals would have been huge over the years, as they would be for the theme to Coronation Street, broadcast twice-weekly in the UK for 44 years (I think). So this is why in the end, composing is more lucrative than performing.

On the other hand, huge royalties have been negotiated by artists like Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney on sales. A few years ago, “Paul is Live” with the Abbey Road crossing shot, limped quietly into the shops. A lot of shops mysteriously got it late. Supplies were bad. Sales were low. This was rumoured to be a record industry ploy in royalty negotiations – he was getting a great deal on it, so they made sure it stiffed.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 18:31:41 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3612755.sympatico.ca (65.93.193.122)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Robbie Speaks In Bam Again.....7 page article....1988

BAM: Did you feel intimidated doing a whole LP's worth of lead vocals for the first time with this album?

ROBBIE:......I enjoy doing it the way I did in The Band. I like the idea of writing the songs and then figuring out: "Oh, you'll sing here, and then when he gets to this line you come in over the top of it, then when we get to the chorus you drop out here and then he'll come in and sing the high part..." To figure out those things, I liked that...On my album you can still hear pieces of this. Because when you write a song and you're singing a song to the guys who are gonna sing it, it isn't just the melody and the words, it's the way you sing it as well - so you would hear people sing these things the way that I would sing them as the songwriter, and they would then interpret them. On my album you hear these little pieces and little sounds come through that are a reminder of that. That's what that is. But I enjoyed doing it very much.

BAM: "Sweet Fire Of Love" is listed as a co-writing credit with U2, whereas "Testimony" isn't, I assume because that one came more off of a previously existing Gil Evans horn chart you had.

ROBBIE: Yeah. When I went to Ireland, I didn't know what we were going to do. Finally I came up with a couple of lines and a couple of ideas when I was over there at the beginning of "Sweet Fire Of Love." But as we worked on it, they were right there in the trenches, and because they gave it 150 percent, I told Bono, "I want to say that we wrote this together"...

BAM: Is there a song or even a moment that you think is more revealing of yourself than any other here? Obviously you're not the most strictly autobiographical writer in the world, but you make it sound like this record is closer than The Band records in terms of revealing what strictly your own interests are.

BAM: Well, a lot of it's personal..."Fallen Angel" is a very, very personal song to me and was very hard for me to work on emotionally. But probably the most autobiographical thing that I've ever done in my life is "Testimony", just from my point of view. I feel more naked singing that song than any of them.

BAM: Why "Testimony"?

ROBBIE: It starts off with this kid and it's to me the point of inspiration for someone who's gonna do this kind of thing which I do and a lot of other people do. At some stage in your life you're growing up and you've got schoolbooks and you're doing what kids do, and all of a sudden, this thing happens to you, and you come under this spell, and it isn't casual. The way I expressed this was "Look over yonder, Apollo at a distance." And I was talking about the god of music. "You can hear the music if you listen to the wind. And I want to be there, I want to be right there, I want to see it with my own eyes". And I talk about it, "the half-breed rides again," I talk about "golden days on smokey mountain"...

I feel like these songs all take place in this mythical place in this country that moves, actually, according to the clouds, and it's called the shadowland. And all these stories are based on somebody's story - mine and theirs. Theirs through my eyes, or whatever.

And this one, I was just talking about this experience of growing up, getting this thing where you don't know anything else. I didn't know anything - when music hit me. I didn't understand life outside of that. And then growing up through that, and actually being one of those people that said, "I know there's something on the other side of that hill over there. I know this isn't all there is for me, and I'm gonna check that out, I'm gonna see what that is." And all my friends would say, "You're crazy. You're gonna be working down at the corner store here just like Freddy is. What are you talking about?" I'd say, "No no no, you don't understand, I'm going over the hill. I'm gonna see. I'm gonna be doing this and doing that." And they'd say "No no no, you need to see a doctor about this problem. Nobody leaves."

Actually a lot of people leave their hometown, but a majority of the people do stay there. A lot of peple go off and pursue their dreams, but most don't - and a lot of them go off and pursue them and come back and stay there.

BAM: You talk of enjoying being the storyteller, but "Testimony" seems like it might be a song where you finally step into the frame to tell about yourself, then, instead of telling it from outside.

ROBBIE: I don't feel like I step out of the frame. I still feel like I tell the story from another point of view. If "Johnny B. Goode" is Chuck Berry's story, it's the same kind of thing. I just prefer not to write songs in a me, me fashion. I feel more comfortable when I can talk about my own experiences through these eyes, and that I can look back and tell the story, and I don't have to feel that I'm being so specific about it that it makes me uncomfortable......


Entered at Sat Feb 15 18:23:38 CET 2003 from on-tor-blr-a58-01-71.look.ca (216.154.0.71)

Posted by:

Wittgenstein

Subject: How can we miss you if you won't stay away?

So, when someone makes a declaration, that they are going to stay away from this site until certain conditions are met; the return of the banished, the irate, the hurt, then one comes in with another name i.e. Wacker,... that's just so funny, I mean, we know who you are you long-winded scouser, and no one new ever posts a long diatribe the first time, so just be yourself. Admit that you can't live up to your pre-set conditions, and join the fun. The GB's been rocking lately.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 18:13:41 CET 2003 from xtreme8-78.aci.on.ca (209.50.82.78)

Posted by:

Sonny Milne

Location: Toronto

Subject: Early Stages

When the Hawks BAND played the Concord Tavern on Saturday afternoons during the sixties it was amazing. Bruce Bruno was singing ballads. Levon was cooking on WHAT i SAY Garth added all the right coulor including sax. Beak sang Gorgia and Rick looked great and played basic bass.Robbie complemented everyone whith great rythm and his sound was unbelievable.During tunes like Come Love you got shivers.Thats the way I choose to remember the band.I eventually replaced Levon with Robby Lane when the Hawks split from Ron.During Levons gig at the Silver Dollar in Toronto last year Levon said those days were special for him to. All the books and comments are really not important those guys were family and those issues were private. ALL GOOD THINGS COME TO AN END.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 18:12:40 CET 2003 from dialup-67.28.35.191.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.28.35.191)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Ladies and fellahs, I am not excited in the least. Trust me, it's a process of the inet that makes people seem angrier than they are. I do get frustrated when points are ignored but big deal. We're all just chewing it for some laughs.

G-man, consider the odd fact that Robertson was publishing songs long before he met Grossman. Recall that he was hired by The Hawk partly because of this. But don't let it get in the way.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 17:20:06 CET 2003 from spider-tf034.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.189)

Posted by:

Bennie

Thanks for the great show by the JWB at the Turning Point on Feb 14th. Nice to see a sold out show and a smoking set of music. Highlights for me, Sid all night, Don't Do It, with a very playfull Afro/samba drum break by Randy, [with all the bells and drums going on sounded like two people playing], into a blistering double time feel with some of the best guitar work by Jim and Sid all night. Albert Rogers floored me with his vocals on Many Rivers, Jim did a great Sliding Home, and Carmelita gave me goose bumps. thanks guys, keep up the good work.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 16:53:19 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

Subject: A Question

Interesting posts about royalties with many good points brought out by each of you an education for a newbie Band guy, with that I have a question, the other night a local radio station in its nightly rock news segment reported that Sting is worth something like 360 million, he goes on to say that he, being Sting also gets something that Ive never heard of and thats $1,500.00 per day for air play of one of his bigger hits, the name of it escapes me, am i right assuming that "airplay" refers to that in a 24 hour period this song is played a certain number of times on the air that Sting gets a fee of 1,500.00 per day..Maybe a dumb question to those of you in the know but here goes, is this the same thing as royalties???


Entered at Sat Feb 15 16:40:31 CET 2003 from du-tele3-243.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.243)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Jesse James is back!

Current estimates put 1.5 million people demonstrating against war in London ("only" 500,000 were expected). In the excitement, the BBC announcer has just said that the Reverend Jesse JAMES would be speaking soon. This is either a remarkable return from the shooting or a slip of the tongue, as I know Jesse Jackson is in London for the march. But we were discussing Jesse James recently, so who knows?


Entered at Sat Feb 15 16:25:50 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-th034.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.34)

Posted by:

PutEmUP

Peter , Pat, etc. The position I have been taking is not fully understood by you guys. For one, I think the same standard should be applied to all songs that were created, but only during applicable periods. That would include compositions credited to anyone, yes songs credited solely to Richard, or songs credited half to Levon. Furthermore, song creation and recording could be two different things. If the NLSC songs were worked up together, by all 5, prior to the recording, i would hold the same position on those songs. if they were really worked out by garth and Robbie, I would sayGarth was the one to take a beating on NLSC. Different situations would require different accomodations. Alot of what I am saying is based on my concept of living honorably, which has nothing to do with rose colored hindsight, or the bilious opinion of one man, but is based onmy philosophy of life. Alot of what I am saying is based on my personal experience writing .

And I love hearing your positions, incidentally. What I do not understand is why you guys get so, so excited.

You may notice I have not commented on people's inability to save a buck or two! I believe that to be a separate issue, and do believe it is a pity.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 14:25:48 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: Ceossing the red line 3


Entered at Sat Feb 15 14:24:53 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: Crossing the red line 2


Entered at Sat Feb 15 14:23:43 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: Crossing the Red Line 1


Entered at Sat Feb 15 12:58:21 CET 2003 from pcp01420654pcs.lndsd101.pa.comcast.net (68.81.34.77)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: Songs

About a year ago during TLW happenings, RR said that he was working on putting out a better box set to include songs that he forgot about but found during the reissue period. Any word on this. Could some of these songs be the RM or RD songs from the NLSC period?


Entered at Sat Feb 15 12:16:49 CET 2003 from du-tele3-243.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.243)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: More songwriting stuff

Nothing here that hasn’t been said before if you want to scroll …
PutEmUp- I fail to see why you think that it would have been fair for a bunch of five people to divide up composing credit to something done 34 years ago in the way that you with hindsight, rosy-tinted spectacles and the evidence of the bile of just one of the five, deem to be just. We’re not talking performing credit or membership of the group, which is credited equally. Levon’s autobiography says it as well as any of the interviews, but taken together, it’s apparent that by NLSC, the three singers paid a few fleeting visits to the studio, while Garth and Robbie laboured for months creating the album.

Read what Pat B says- musicians and songwriters have been there and know how unequal writing often is. Brien Sz explains collaboration from the writer’s point of view, and he’s right, I’ve been there. Today in Mojo, Roger Waters says the same about David Gilmour being unable to write, generally failing to turn up, then whingeing about credits later. Anyone who has written or composed or otherwise worked in free-lance collaboration knows that it sometimes works, but usually after a while one person is doing most of the work. As Pat has said, why isn’t Levon demanding shares of Rick’s songs or Richard’s songs?

None of us know about the royalties or shares in the entity (presumably an incorporated entity) that was The Band. We know from Levon’s book that Rick, Richard and Garth allegedly sold their shares to Robbie after TLW. Levon says that he did not do so. In 1977, who would have estimated that box sets and remasters were 25 years in the future? “Islands” sold somewhere around bugger-all copies. I assume that Robbie (like Paul McCartney) felt a degree of paternity in his compositions and wished to retain control of them. If you live on writing or composition, you make a regular decision. Should you take a cash fee now, or a royalty that will trickle in over a long period of time? It’s a decision you make, and the vote for royalties expresses faith in the life of the product. The vote for cash now expresses the belief that the product is finished / won’t make much, or distrust in the abilities of the company you’re dealing with. It’s a decision I take all the time. I assume that in 1977 all were big boys, and had access to professional advice on which to base their choice – a choice which was a gamble. Robbie predicted the winner. But Levon says he made the same choice as Robbie.

An earlier comment yesterday from Tracy was that it’s all highly dependent on what you do with the money. If you had given five people (say) a million dollars in 1971 (and that would be worth ten or fifteen times as much then), if they were well-advised, you’d expect them to be wealthy today. But look at once-famous musicians. Some haven’t had a success for years, but still live comfortably. Others blew the lot at the time. A professional advisor would have immediately set aside the due percentage for taxes, and put the maximum allowable tax-deductible sum into private pensions (at least here in the UK where in 1971 they would have got at least 60% tax allowance on the funds put into pensions) - I believe footballers can draw down sums from their pension fund from 35, musicians from 50. Look at the tabloids – many people who get rich quick forget that a large percentage of the cheque in their hands belongs to the government, the single most likely cause of their downfall. So, if one was prudent and others were not, you would expect a vast discrepancy in their wealth today. They all have families – and one’s loyalties to one’s offspring take priority over one’s loyalties to anyone else in my experience. If you think some sort of big gesture to help out the buddies of your youth who blew the lot outweighs your responsibilities to your kids, you’re really stuck in some primitive male fantasy teen gang mode. Some musicians do pine away without the cameraderie of ‘the lads’. Others grow up.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 11:07:33 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Do you sincerly believe the GB is the right place to discuss Levon-Robbie litigation ?


Entered at Sat Feb 15 07:47:11 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

Long Distance Operator

Web: My link

Subject: And Then He Killed Me (Allegedly)

Click the link for a killer article on Phil Spector by Serene Dominic.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 07:30:13 CET 2003 from dialup-67.25.135.78.dial1.buffalo1.level3.net (67.25.135.78)

Posted by:

G-Man

Location: Not at the JWB or LHBB Show

Really,,really hate to post on the royalty issue but some interesting info. appears re. it!! Grossman was out to get his cut whether he deserved it or not!! My point is, and knowing Robbie was a VISIONARY,,,that he must have just become aware of what royalties would be like in the future (if it wasn't a vision,ya think Grossman told him??).Well,,,however Robber found out,,,Why didn't he share that info with his Band mates???? Of course Robbie did say,,don't worry we'll even up on the next album!! RIght, and the sun's a gonna come up in the west!!!!


Entered at Sat Feb 15 06:27:50 CET 2003 from dialup-67.28.33.101.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.28.33.101)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Putemup, perhaps I feel the way I do because I am a musician. And this whole Robertsonian thing is completely overstated. I simply can't understand how you can shred Robertson for doing something that Rick, Richard, and to a lesser extent, Levon did.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 05:57:09 CET 2003 from dialup-67.28.33.101.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.28.33.101)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

I'm taking the hard line? Please, please, please, Wacker and PutemUp, explain your positions on the songwriting credits on Big Pink. Please. Should Richard's estate share whatever publishing he gets from the songs credited to him? Rick mentioned how nice it was to get money for This Wheel's On Fire. Did he share that with Garth? Robertson played the same game on songwriting that they all played, he just wrote more. Levon's credit on Strawberry Wine and Carnival? Did he cheat Garth out of money? I'm not taking a hard line. You all are ignoring some pertinent facts.

Whatever happened with the shares is a business decision grown men made.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 02:30:30 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Brian Geeting

Subject: Robert L. Doerschuk's Review of Testimony

Robert L. Doerschuk's review of the album Testimony demonstrates his ineptitude as a music critic. Testimony will end up a Grammy winner. And I would love to say this to Robert's face, because reading lips is probably the only way he receives messages from the world around him.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 02:19:53 CET 2003 from spider-ti061.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.201)

Posted by:

PutEmUp, PutEmUp

Subject: Dexy,

As Dexy raises the issue, the approach of crediting the lyrics to the actual lyricist, and the music , to the entity, thereby dividing the publishing accordingly, would of made sense. Been fair. Moral. And would have avoided a war.

This is along the lines of the issues I was previously raising, that of the contributions the Band members made being far beyond what session players would offer. Couple that with the fact that they were not paid arranger's fees, and a strong position is made. Incidentally, arranger's fees can be set amounts, or points, or both. And if the arranger is on the session, he can be entitled to a separate session fee, if so arranged.

Pat Brennan, and you other musicians involved in this discourse that have taken a hard line that Levon is wrong in his claim, you already know all this. Considering that you are musicians, and apparently astute and intelligent people, I am surprised that you are so hard on this issue. I am not anti Robbie, incidentally. I love the whole Band, loved Rick and Richard. Love Garth and Levon. I just honestly believe that Robbie could of , should of, considered more than hard cash at the time. And like Wacker, ,lovable coot that he is. I feel the songs credited to Robbie could not of sounded the same with any other group of musicians. Indeed , they never would of gotten to the same place.

this is not meant as bait, or fodder, just my take on the issue.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 02:08:48 CET 2003 from spider-tf081.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.211)

Posted by:

Deeb

I miss you, Rick


Entered at Sat Feb 15 02:06:51 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-tj071.proxy.aol.com (64.12.106.51)

Posted by:

JTull fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Plaster casters/Peter:

Peter, the plaster casters thing is on the jethro tull site. Go there.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 01:33:08 CET 2003 from 223.64.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.64.223)

Posted by:

Dexy

Wacker, Peter Viney, David Powell -- interesting points all in an issue that, to put it mildly, has been previously discussed. fyi David, there was an interview to promote the "official" Band Video Biography in which Rick flatly took Levon's side. Also, U2 generally credits the music to U2, and the lyrics to either Bono or Bono and The Edge. I was just reading the MOJO special edition on The Beatles' first 1000 days, and a little item notes that George helped write She Loves You, to no credit. I believe that happened occassionally. The group did, though, cut both George and Ringo in for a (small) percentage of the Lennon/McCartney writing royalties.


Entered at Sat Feb 15 00:51:15 CET 2003 from spider-ti034.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.189)

Posted by:

PutEmUpPutEmUp

Wacker, I am speechless. Your sage wisdom and fine writing is just that. A unigue and well thought out discourse!Bravo!


Entered at Fri Feb 14 23:55:04 CET 2003 from du-tele3-226.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.226)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Bits

Good to see you back, Wacker.

The Plaster Casters are to be commended from what I read for putting the Hendrix limited edition out first. The article i read suggested they could have saved greatly on materials and manufacturing by starting with the Jagger. On which, a prized possession is the Zappa produced GTO's record (Girls Together Outrageously) which I bought for 6 shillings and eightpence in Woolworth's sale together with The Dillard's "Wheatstraw Suite" and the first Alice Cooper, also on Straight records (3 for a pound= 6 shillings and eightpence each). Has a pound ever been so well spent?

Record Collector reviews two Marty Balin-related re-issues, Grootna (1971) and Bodacious D.F. (1973). It says of Grootna, “there’s more than a hint of The Band’s funky interplay on “Going to Canada”. I have vague memories of having both these albums copied onto open-reel tape, long since trashed. Don’t remember this song. Does anyone else?


Entered at Fri Feb 14 23:50:38 CET 2003 from h00065ba4933b.swt.edu (147.26.110.174)

Posted by:

pehr

Subject: songwriting credits

Crazy Chester beat me to it; but I'll second the motion and have for some time. I'm reading this book on Mike Bloomfield that seems to shed a little light on it. One reason Bloomfield left Butterfield was because of the amount of control Butter had over the money deals which was all set up by Grossman. So when Bloomfield formed the Electric Flag, it goes he was going to stay being managed by Albert Grossman, who had all the contacts, acts and power of just about anyone in the Rock n' Roll biz at that level in those days. As soon as Grossman caught wind of this project He sent Bloomfield a ton of contracts, one for publishing, one for songwriting credits, royalties, performances, you name it, it was there and broken down into every concievable nuance. Bloomfield did not like the structure of the songwriting or the royalties agreement in particular, in which it says Grossman helped himself to a bit more than Bloomfield felt, say, comfortable with and said so, at which point Grossman applied leverage which ultimately forced Bloomfield to concur to a deal that ultimately screwed him, and probably didn't help his morale over the later years, as he slowly dropped further from public view and went on into a very sad decline from there.

Now I admittedly know nothing, but I do relish occasional speculation, (as long as it is peaceful with you guys)and it just seems to me that Robertson and Grossman had a rather special relationship compared to all the other artists that he managed, say compared to his fallout with Dylan, and Mike Bloomfield's ultimate dissapointment with him, and it wouldn't be hard to imagine really that Grossman would take an interest in RR and vice versa. RR wasn't into the star or Celeb trip, or the drug thing too much, he was into writing heavily and had designs on a careeer outside of music and Rock n' Roll. I'm not sure many of Grossman's artists were much into this so Grossman may well have structured the deal toward RR's deck as opposed to what the Doors did, (you know, written by the doors, produced by the doors, etc.) I guess that it just wasn't done that way then and Grossman was a tough guy to up against with a gripe, from what I got from reading about him and Bloomfield's experience.

that said, this debate will go on here forever but, I believe that RR has a very distinct songwriting voice that I recognize in all his work, and I havent seen that much effective songwriting come out of the others since, whatever people think of RR's solo recent stuff (I love it, personally, and listen to it lately more often than the band stuff... apples and oranges.

I see no reason why Levon can't write his own stuff and go that way, and wonder about that- I love the old Classic blues songs they play and its tough to go up against Willie Dixon but isnt that how we keep the blues alive? He's got lots of stories and expressions and experiences to draw from, shit, nothing else but maybe a new Bloomfield or Link Wray Rekkid could get me more excited! (do it Levon!)

Heck I got into songwriting because blues is really all I can play well at all and who wants to hear "Stormy Monday or "Sweet Home Chicago" ever again? I dont, so I guess I plan to torture the world with my own stuff instead. A great time for a plug... Anyone wanny hear this shit I can send you a demo...I'd love some feedback. It gets lonely writing these things and recording them in bathrooms,brothels,under bridges, whorehouses, dark alleys, etc... E mail me at Pehr1960 at yahoo dot com for your free record- thanks and peace.

ps. theres a picture of Boomfield with the Bauls of Bengali in this great book too; they were roommates in Mill Valley- crazy music there I bet!


Entered at Fri Feb 14 23:50:54 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Wacker: Points well taken! Am I to assume, in light of your moniker, that it's only by coincidence that you posted following the discussion of "plaster casters" {:-}


Entered at Fri Feb 14 23:35:37 CET 2003 from 213-48-241-13.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.241.13)

Posted by:

Wacker

Subject: Now just hold it there you Robertsonians - perhaps things aren't quite so cut and dried as you might be suggesting...

THE BAND, ROBERTSONIANS, LEVONISTAS - A PINE IN THE SKY?

Like a festering sore, it never really seems to go away. It lurks there all the time. First time I ever came on here its fires were raging. And no doubt long before that, too. The Robertsonians versus The Levonistas. An inherent backdrop to huge chunks of any Band related material on this site.

As a simple fan of THE BAND I find it and the feud that feeds it sad and dispiriting. Sure I know it's life and it exists and such feuds are very much part and parcel of our existence on this godforsaken planet but... surely some things in life are worth compromising for; even - seemingly - so late in the day.

Speaking personally I take no sides in the rift.

I mean that sincerely. As a genuine and - for precisely ninety seven and a half percent of my Band fandom - a totally isolated fan of The Band since their initial understated proclamation of greatness back in the late sixties, I have no personalised axe to grind whatsoever. If at times in what I am about to say it may seem like I do then it is merely because I care. And because I am telling it like I see it. That is, in simple terms, Robbie as the monetary victor; Levon, Garth, Rick and Richard as the monetary vanquished; The Band's tarnished spirit and memory as the ultimate loser. I also see one more thing. That is, the entire episode is something to which sensible, rational, mature and, above all, one time great friends should have been/should still be able to find a solution.

Anyroad, here is the take of someone who is a devotee of THE BAND per se. Not of Levon, not of Robbie, not of Rick, not of Richard, not of Garth as individuals but as mere ingredients of the incredible entity that they combined to create. Whilst I respect and admire each of them enormously for the individual qualites of outstanding musicianship outside of that entity, it is only their all so elusive - in my own humble opinion unique - forging of individual brilliance into something truly magical that brought me - and, I'm sure, most of us - to this site. Without that special communion I would simply not be here, no matter what the merits of the respective individals beyond and outside of that entity. Nor is that meant with any disrespect to any of those individuals, their virtuoso qualities, their successors within the subsequent manifestations of the group, the many loyal followers who extoll the undoubted virtues of such manifestations or any of those who frequent this site - whether long term afficianados of The Band or relatively recent discoverers of the majesty that brings us all here.

And so to what is one of the core issues that permeates this site and what - to my own sensibilities - is tantamount to a cancer that continues to eat away relentlessly at the very heart of the unique creation that was THE BAND.

Irrevocably, Robbie was THE songwriter of our beloved ensemble. Richard may sure have pushed him close at one stage and once may even been closer to that almost spiritual ethos to which the group as a whole seemed originally to aspire. He, however, manifestly did not possess Robbie's staying power as a writer. For such writing does, indeed, require a steadfast discipline and vocation. Perfecting the craft comes readily only to the very few. In the final analysis Robbie - alone within the group - was the one with that requisite discipline and craft and, at various times, that dash of genius and vision - shared also for a time let us never forget by Richard - that sets great writers apart from most others of the genre.

Yet that was scarcely the whole story.

In hindsight, it seems doubtful whether the vast bulk of Robbie's songs could ever have existed as sublimely as we have all come to know them outside The Band as an entity. In any other context it is difficult to envisage many of The Band's greatest triumphs retaining their greatness when interpreted by other individuals or ensembles, less gifted, less able than The Band to harness their parts to sustain a whole so infinitely greater than the sum of such parts. Even those later manifestations of the original group themselves seemed to struggle in this respect when compared to the aplomb of that late sixties/early seventies zenith. Performed by other artists it seems almost inevitable that Robbie's songs would tend to pale.

Indeed, many of us older GB'ers will no doubt recall those commendable yet utimately fruitless efforts of many late sixties/early seventies bands - some famous, most not so famous - to emulate that elusive sound of The Band. Many tried yet none came anywhere near. The verbal bouquets of George Harrison and Eric Clapton at the time were not simply hollow flattery. You could almost say that crucially - in the context of this issue - it seems that Robbie's songs actually evolved into extensions of the group of which they were part. Within that enclave, they became unique treasures. Outside, they might rank as mere artifacts. The relative inferiority - in broad terms [and in my humble opinion I might add] - of Robbie's otherwise admirable body of work since leaving The Band simply underpins such a perception.

What this reveals to those who might wish to scrutinize it, is that Robbie's musical kernals were' merely' the rudiments for the masterful finished textures that ended up so enrapturing us all; his lyrics the tools with which the three singers within The Band fashioned the harmonic creeds which swallowed us whole. In short, Robbie's songs could never be JUST his songs as is invariably otherwise the case with the principal tunesmiths in other bands. In the - probably unique - case of THE Band, those songs actually became the 'babies' of the rest of The Band as well as Robbie; the group as a whole. They belonged to them all, no matter to whom they might have been officially accredited.

It is true, of course, that in terms of the creative propulsion of the group Robbie came to represent, particularly as time went on, that all so vital spring gushing from 'offa' that mountain top. However, ALL five were the meandering river that flowed ultimately to the sea. In the final analysis, whilst Robbie stands as the source for most of what sprang from them, the respective contributions of the others to each of his infrastructures can simply never be extricated. Nor should they ever be within the atmosphere of that communal sharing that their songs and performances all championed. For time-served Band fans, our instincts confirm to us that this is the case.

Where this leaves the delicate little matter of songwriting royalties arising from all those songs must remain one for Solomon to resolve. Precisely how they should be apportioned is not for fans to determine or decree. That Robbie was the principal writing force HAS to be acknowledged and weighed in the balance. It seems far from incongruous, however, for some more equitable apportionment, one perhaps reflecting the contribution of the other members, to be applied.

Little wonder, set against such a backdrop, that Robbie's apparent reluctance to share what might ethically be regarded as being also the estate of the others can seem somewhat callous in the eyes of some; unpalatable even. Nor are such perceptions lessened by the fact that Robbie was clearly the most commercially astute member of the group. Within what seemed - to the lay fan - to be such a tight and inter-devoted group one might be forgiven for thinking it might have compelled Robbie to divvy up more fairly the proceeds that accrued from the group's success. Hiving off the lion's share, no matter what token financial consideration might have been subsequently engineered with Rick, Richard and Garth at a time when it was clearly a sellers market, remains, to even many of the most devoted accolytes of Robbie's matchless work, an inequity to be righted; a manifest wrong only Robbie can rectify.

Monetary considerations apart, the most grievous irony, of course, is that the very kudos Robbie clearly craves for penning some of what I am sure will in time if not already be regarded as rock music's finest moments is denied him amongst some of the very fraternity one would assume he most earnestly wishes to be accorded it. The Band were seen by us all as one that epitomised an 'all for one; one for all' ethos. History tells us that at least one of its members appears to have chosen to demur on that ethos. Currently, it seems, he too, is spurned by many who deep down would actually wish to embrace him spiritually like they do his former Band kin. That, of course, is a crying shame his art in no way deserves.

One is left to ponder what it does actually profit him - as the undoubted great artist he is - to gain even the whole world against the background of the rancour that hounds him like some black dog? Are all the riches in the world actually worth such long term acrimony? The disintegration of priceless friendships and the possible tarnishing of his place in music's history, which may sadly prove to be an unwelcome slice of his ultimate legacy, would seem scant reward for the huge contribution he actually did make.

This, of course, is still not the whole of the story. As we all know only too well, there is another major player involved here.

On a purely human level, I sympathise enormously with Levon's plights in recent years. I understand many of his frustrations. I applaud his strength amidst the adversity of the ill-health he has endured. That said, his stance on Robbie Robertson is as flawed in its own way as Robbies own take on The Band's commercial ventures .

Let us for a moment accept what is generally accepted as Levon's angle on Robbie. That in the overall scheme of things Robbie has proven to be a flawed individual; wrong to claim virtually complete songwriting credits; blinded by his own star; deluded into believing his art could exist as exultantly beyond as it did within The Band.

So what? Even if it were all true, the bottom line still remains that 'write those songs' is precisely what Robbie did. And besides, there will always remain that little matter of double standards that dogs all of us born under this particular sun. Let he without 'flaws' cast that first stone or something akin thereto.

The fact is Levon's paean to any semblance of 'equal' billing on those songs is plainly absurd. Those closest to Levon may well tell him otherwise. Levon may well even believe them. Both they and he are manifestly wrong if that is the case. Indeed, in the ultimate analysis such a foolhardy stance could be perceived as equally as culpable as Robbie denying ANY real involvement of Levon and the others in the consummation of those final sublime creations.

The simple truth is that Robbie DID pen those songs. Whilst Levon and the others may well have helped Robbie mould and layer them to their ultimate exquisiteness; whilst without such vital contributions they may never have attained that uniqueness that made them what they are - it WAS still Robbie who originated them. What it means is that by denying such a fundamental tenet of what The Band as an entity created and stood for, Levon is - at the very least - displaying a mean-spiritedness that is downright unworthy of the very qualities that Levon believes he himself stands for.

Do we never learn anything from our intrinsic human failings?

Robbie should be afforded the credit he both craves and deserves. Likewise the rest of The Band what they deserve.

For the sake of the memory of the matchless creation that is The Band. For the sake of its two dearly missed deceased brothers, can not two grown men come down from the high horses they currently ride? Can Robbie not display some modicum of the human spirit displayed so graciously within his songs? Can Levon not spout some of the 'down-home' sense for which he is so proud to be renowned? Can not both, even now, so far down this sadly desecrated road, move towards repairing a rift that need never have formed in the first place with just a few dollops of foresight, communication, dignity and humanity.

Surely both owe that at least to their departed brothers, if not their goodselves and Garth and - God forbid - the rest of us who so admired them.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 23:34:10 CET 2003 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.home.nl (212.120.101.7)

Posted by:

Norbert

Valentine's day......I dream far away...... (Socrates)



Entered at Fri Feb 14 23:33:12 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny

Subject: Sex & Pseudonyms on the Road

That's more like it--Peter talking cocks and cockney and Pat dropping names of famous organs he's touched--such a nice change of pace from all the political crap (I'll go to CNN.com if I want that).

The classic moment in TLW with the line, "I thought we weren't supposed to talk about THAT" comes to mind when I think about the Plaster Casters. It was interesting to see members (pardon the pun) of the Lovin' Spoonful and the Rascals among the castees, since I associate them with a more innocent rock'n'roll era. I was happy to see Frank Zappa given proper credit for his role in the success (pronounced the way Dylan sings the word in "Subterranean Homesick Blues") of the Plaster Casters. I think Frank may have even included a chapter on their antics in his brilliant "Real Frank Zappa Book."

I was once privy to a conversation between musicians joking about psuedonyms they used to keep undesirable strangers from calling their hotel rooms. One of the fake names I overheard was "Dr. Mike Hunt." As Peter put it, use your imagination...


Entered at Fri Feb 14 23:28:32 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-tl023.proxy.aol.com (64.12.107.158)

Posted by:

Lee

Subject: Robbie interview re. NLSC

Bill, your memory serves you well. There was an article/feature that I will have somewhere with this quote. I suppose the Rick Danko songs could have been used on his solo album and Richards material could have been Beautiful Thing, as recorded on Claptons No Reason To Cry.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 23:12:47 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: a few points

I don't want to beat a dead horse or fill up a lot of space here but, on the subject of royalties, I would like to share a few "points" -- a very appropriate word in this context, in that it can mean "distinguishing features or characteristics", as well as "units used in rationing commodities".

Who wrote the majority of songs recorded by a group is not the sole determining factor regarding how the monies derived from the back catalog sales should be divided. For instance, we don't know if there was an agreement for all the members to share in a certain percentage of the publishing.

Levon hints in his book that certain members sold their unspecified shares to RR. If that is this case, then that's another sad story in itself that might explain the current situation. It could be, that at the time RR left the group, he was the only one who realized that the back catalog of recordings was truly a vein of gold that one could continue to mine in the future, and that the price of those gold nuggets would appreciate greatly in value.

The back catalog of Band recordings is not only still in print, but has gone through several reissues with still more on the horizon. No one could deny that RR, as a chief contributor & songwriter, deserves his just share of royalties, but if the other members and their respective estates are not receiving any significant monies, then someone is indeed getting screwed.

One recently emerging grey area here is the new technologies of DVD-video and DVD-audio, which didn't exist and weren't comtemplated at the time of the group's original contract(s). In the last year alone we've seen the release of "The Last Waltz" on DVD-V & DVD-A and "Music From Big Pink" on DVD-A.

Just a few points to consider besides the songwriting issue.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 23:10:38 CET 2003 from du-tele3-226.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.226)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: On a lighter note

Can't see the Plaster casters story, but it was reported recently that a limited edition of 1000 intimate Hendrix casts were to be the first of a continuing series.

On language- the latest addition to the mistitled Cockney Rhyming Slang (it doesn't have to rhyme) has been heard several times this month. Last night Chris Tarrant on TV repeated it. He was describing the censorship of pubic hair on Japanese TV, so that nudes have to put carpet tape over their "George Dubya's". Thus George W. attains immortality as this slang goes on for years, and this is undoubtedly the current term in our capital city. One recent change in the slang was when the term "A right Midland …" (= Midland banker = wanker) had to be changed to "A right Barclays …" when Midland Bank changed their name to HSBC Bank. A much older one is "A right berk …" (= Berkely Hunt = use your imagination).


Entered at Fri Feb 14 22:58:42 CET 2003 from du-tele3-226.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.226)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Getting Real- Band of Brothers

Getting real- Levon & The Hawks were together from circa 1961 to late 1965. Robbie & Levon also 59-61. They regrouped late in 67 after Levon had absented himself for two years. Three of them lived in Big Pink, not five. They had NOT been continually on the road for 16 or 17 years at the time of TLW. This is Grossman hype extended. For most of the time between late 1967 and 1976 they maintained separate dwellings. There were patches when they recorded a lot (67 to 69). Patches when they toured a lot (70-71, 74, late 76). In between they did not live in each other’s pockets, did they? They rode on the myth, but a lot of bands were together just as much.

Even from my peripheral involvement, I know that most bands go through a “brothers against adversity” stage which involves a bonding process- The Beatles in Hamburg and on the early tours, or The Hawks touring the south. In the UK at least there was a kind of unwritten rule. You finished the gig at maybe 12, an hour to load up the gear, then you often drove through the night. The unwritten rule was to keep the driver awake by talking. So people told their innermost secrets to survive by stopping the guy at the wheel nodding off to sleep. Therefore they know each other all too well. On one occasion Fairport Convention singularly failed to do so and crashed the van, killing the drummer. The urban legend is that they had a plank of wood wedged over the gas pedal to rest the driver’s foot. I believe it’s true because I’ve seen it done. As a result of travels and travails a bond is generally formed, But the myth that The Band were uniquely close, or closer than any other band ever, is just that, a myth. As PSB said so well, this is naïve fantasy bullshit along the lines of The Beatles living in adjoining terraced houses in“Help” or The Monkees sharing an apartment.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 22:58:05 CET 2003 from h-68-164-6-226.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.6.226)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Charlie, an interesting coincidence rasing Felix's name near Cynthia PlasterCaster's as I understand her most impressive, uhhhh, creation is Edie Brigati. Her website is entertaining, but MattK better avoid the Sally Timms page. I did play a Hammond B3 that Felix used to rent; it was white. I recently used Van Morrison's B3 when I played in Ireland.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 22:54:14 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: royaltees from the sand album

got me some tunes i need some musical schmucks to make sound sense of it all. looking to create an arabicana feel. some of the songs are titled "the crate", "rags alla rags", "lookout baghdad", "whispering cedars", "saddam surrender", "cripples up the creek", "the unfaithfull", "carnivores on the edge of town", and many more. got me a great agent from nazereth or is he from brooklyn, gonna get me the lions share, the paperworks done and the rest of the band dont know from nothin, and besides thats what a band does!


Entered at Fri Feb 14 22:52:47 CET 2003 from spider-tk013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.178)

Posted by:

J.L.B.

Location: TN

Juliet:Romeo, Romeo, where for art thou Romeo

Romeo:I'm ri-cheer

-Andy Griffith

Happy Valintines day yall'


Entered at Fri Feb 14 21:31:58 CET 2003 from (66.43.82.136)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny

JTull Fan: I have to admit that I got a good chuckle out of that Robbie/Levon, Israeli/Palestinian comment. I guess that peace between either side in both of those situations is pretty unlikely.

On the Plaster Caster story, I wonder if any of those archives include anything about the most amazing organ in rock'n'roll history, Garth's? That reminds me: did Pat Brennan say he once played Garth's organ or was it Felix Cavaliere's?


Entered at Fri Feb 14 21:05:12 CET 2003 from h-68-164-225-33.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.225.33)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Putemup, well, Richard admitted to writer's block and claimed late in his life he still couldn't finish songs even though he had music fragments he had developed. Garth said he only added things to songs that had already been written and had no problem with the way things went down. So your characterization of this songwriting thing as a them against Robertson needs some massaging.

I'm well aware that there is a difference between preformance and songwriting payments.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 20:59:48 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: What's the difference between The Robbie/Levon and Israeli/Palestinian issues?

The Israeli and Palestinian issue will someday be resolved!


Entered at Fri Feb 14 20:47:09 CET 2003 from spider-ta034.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.59)

Posted by:

PutUpYourDukes

Matt, that's it! The credits shoud really read "Robbystiltskyn"

The reason people get involved in this is the beauty and importance of the creation. That is the only reason. And trust me, I am not ripping my hair out, or tearing my shirt. Believe it or not, I don't really care. It has no effect on my life.

But it does make for good interesting discussion, and a lot of good points have been made. Which I enjoy hearing.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 20:33:09 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia (under code orange)

Subject: exception to the rule

As far as songwriting & publishing, there is one group I know of that shares the credit among all its members --R.E.M. This unusual arrangement is an exception to the rule, but one that keeps everyone, including the retired drummer, shiny happy people.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 20:33:10 CET 2003 from (65.88.119.254)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: Hank's Post

As stated by Hank - "I think, for what it's worth, that AFTER TLW, they shoulda gone back to being Levon and The Hawks and set themselves up to be backing musos for the stars.....sorta like Booker T and The MGS..... ". I have a problem with this becasue the truth is they were stars. Rather then take this approach, I think they should have continued down a solo or duo path. Rick should never have stopped after 1 and I always thought RR & RM whould have made an interesting combo. all the members had star capabilities.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 20:31:38 CET 2003 from ptd-24-198-166-33.maine.rr.com (24.198.166.33)

Posted by:

MattK

Putupyourdukes sez:

"But, in the case of the Band, we do not know clearly that Robbie wrote every word, and that the songs were fully formed before he brought them to the guys."

MattK replies:

We also don't "know" that little elves didn't sneak into the studio at Robbie's house and write the songs while he slept. Shall we get all worked up because the BMI/ASCAP listing for "Dixie" doesn't read "JR Robertson/Rumplstiltsken?"


Entered at Fri Feb 14 20:27:29 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Subject: Warme Liefde

Emanuel:
Thanks for the feedback. I guess you're recent in the GB, welcome btw. Everybody here know i spent the biggest part of my life in Belgium, Amsterdam was my front lawn, i never been in SA, de beste rijk is The Netherlands, (perhaps Belgium). The Ledsplein atmospher like i knew it need seriously to be presented in this GB at this very moment if you or Jaqueline can do that, i'll be obliged to you, i wish some news. There's also a subliminal message in my last post: i was not concerned by all that previous stuff in english (i surely done more than two mistakes) zo ik post een klein beetje liefde met het woorden van de liefdelijke volk.

Enjoy Garth's show, it's tomorow


Entered at Fri Feb 14 20:26:15 CET 2003 from ptd-24-198-166-33.maine.rr.com (24.198.166.33)

Posted by:

MattK

PSB, Pat, Peter V. have all made excellent points, most of which the have made before, and which continue to go unanswered by folks who seem to go out of their way to get worked up over this so-call "issue."

As bothered as I have been by the ceaseless gnashing of teeth and tearing at hairshirts in the past, I find myself taking a somewhat more clinical view on this neverending "debate" (I use the term lightly as I don't think we're talking about a disagreement over facts, here - more later).

One undeniable fact is that MOST of us don't know the members of the Band as people. In fact, even those folks here who DO know folks like Levon and Garth, or knew Rick and Richard, quite well would have to admit they don't really know Robbie at all - they guy has not been a part of the Woodstock "scene" in over 30 years now, after all.

Still, the fact remains that, at best, nearly everyone who seem to be continually worked up over this so-called "thievery" at best can say they've met Levon for a few minutes after a show, or at best can say they had a beer or two with Rick one evening in 1992. I think it says something tremendous about these men that they can engender such familiarity and sense of friendship in total strangers, the fact remains, they are relative strangers. And even those who could call Levon something more than an aquaintance, not ONE can say they know Robbie Robertson in any meaningful way.

That said, while its understandable that someone like Butch would be somewhat blindly loyal to Levon on issues like songwriting and whatnot, how is it that others, who by any definition of intimacy and familiarity, can be so emotionally attached to who is right and wrong?

Why, in fact, do they care at all? I don't think it's a general sense of injustice. After all, I'm sure they don't get so angry over similair issues embroiling the legacies of The Beach Boys, or CCR - I've not seen these same people raging over Macca's recent challenges to the age old "Lennon/McCartney" songcredits.

The fact is that logic, evidence, apparent facts, or precedent have no part in these folks' anger. One wonders what it is in their life that makes it so easy to project black and white hats on total strangers over issues that occurred some 25 years ago.

In truth, I don't think most of these folks look much past appearances - Robbie wears nice suits and lives in LA, and he never shook my hand after a show, so he MUST be the "bad guy;" Levon and Garth look like regular joes, and Levon gave me a drumstick so they must be the "good guys."

The question I'd like to see these same folks ask themselves, is why there HAS to be a good guy or bad guy at all? I find it impossible to believe that if these same folks examined the relationships in their lives that it would be so simple to divvy even their best friends and worst enemies into such cartoonish caricatures as they've ascribed to these five guys.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 20:06:44 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.11)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: The Bitter End

Dave, call it as you see it. From a very personal perspective I can shed some additional light on my point. Please bear in mind I'm stating this solely for the purpose of possibly clarifying my position.

About seven years back I, and my children,were roundly screwed over by someone we all loved and trusted. Heartless deceit, shameless behavior, theft, you name it.The details are private but I can tell you that the facts left no question in anyone's mind. I hold a serious contempt for that person and, sadly, cannot imagine that forgiveness will ever be possible. I've tried to muster it up but the act of forgiveness is only an act if it is not truly in your heart to forgive.

The long and short of it is that anyone that knows me would tell you that I am not a bitter man. My animosity is directed at only one person and justifiably so. I am not someone who carries that everyday and everywhere. I do not view any of the other people in my life or any of the other aspects of my life with bitterness in my heart. If anything the whole event has heightened my appreciation of what is right and good in my life.

Just one guy's take on the matter.

PEACE


Entered at Fri Feb 14 20:06:17 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

PutUpYourDukes

Peter, I agree with you on your list of what is and what isn't songwriting. But, in the case of the Band, we do not know clearly that Robbie wrote every word, and that the songs were fully formed before he brought them to the guys. As a matter of fact, it appears the opposite. By the very intricate nature of these songs, and the fact that the Band was not a cover Band working out intricate arrangements to other people's already recorded songs, but working out the presentation of new original material, other arrangements should of been made.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 19:58:35 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Posted by:

PutUpYourDukes,PutEmUp,PutEmUp

Subject: Dave

The E Street Band is a band, with a band leader who writes the songs. Yes, they probably make up their parts, but somehow I would think Springsteen is very clear when he brings a song to the band. The song is probably mostly worked out by him in advance of the band ever seeing it.

and if not, i bet you he would give his guys arrangement points.! Although they have the greatest gig in the world!

incidentally, the term session player happens to be a compliment. it describes a musician good enough to walk in cold, not having seen the material, and lay it wide open.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 19:42:32 CET 2003 from dialin-734-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.3.226)

Posted by:

Gene

Subject: Ray Pence, I'm With You

Hey Ray, I'm with you...there ought to be some serious discussion BEFORE we enter into some half-baked war.

However, I don't know if THIS is the proper place...and it does get ugly in here with politics.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 19:36:33 CET 2003 from (12.40.177.18)

Posted by:

Dave

Location: Minnesota

Subject: Songwriting Credits Part 2

A few quick responses, all in good conversational tone:

Pat Brennan: Levon's book makes it clear that he felt he got the shaft by not making (enough) money on the albums. Re-read Peter Viney's post "Songwriting Revisited".

PutUpYourDukes: Are you calling the E-Street Band a group of session players??? Re-read Viney's post as above.

Bob Wigo: Levon IS bitter in terms of his attitude towards Robbie. His shunning the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction is proof of that. John Fogerty at least showed up, then fucked his buddies by telling them to piss off. Levon simply acted like a bitter old man that couldn't for one night put his disagreements aside. On what should have been one of the highlights of The Band's career, he sat out and pouted.

I'm sure Levon is the sweetest guy to meet, but to say he isn't bitter, angry, and unforgiving I feel is misstating the obvious.

Dave


Entered at Fri Feb 14 19:34:29 CET 2003 from user-2ininj5.dialup.mindspring.com (165.121.94.101)

Posted by:

Peter Stone Brown

Location: Philly
Web: My link

Subject: re: Songwriting revisted

One would hope that Peter Viney's excellent post would put to rest this extremely tired topic once and for all but that's unlikely.

Contributing to an arrangement is NOT songwriting. Inspiring a song is NOT songwriting. Being the subject of a song is NOT songwriting. Telling someone a story whether historical or not is NOT songwriting.

If the contributions of the other musicians to the songs of Robertson, Manuel, Dylan, Holland/Dozier Holland or any of the other songwriters the Band covered seem more extraordinary, it's because they were extraordinary musicians. But the act of contributing is no more and no less than any other musician in any other band whether an existing band or on a recording session -- the musicians are contributing parts. The Band's version of "When I Paint My Masterpiece" (for instance) is much different than any of Dylan's versions. They didn't write the song.

I've been in plenty of bands and just about all of them had more than one songwriters. The other members came up with parts for my songs, I came up with parts for their songs. When people moved on they (or I) would bring the songs to other bands and other people would create other parts. They didn't write the songs. Every once in a while songs would get co-written. The people who wrote the songs WROTE the songs.

The "living together like brothers" is naive fantasy bullshit and has nothing to do with anything. Every band at some point feels like brothers (or brothers and sisters or sisters) and when a band breaks up it's painful and not unlike a divorce.

All one really has to do to figure out who wrote the songs is listen. There are very distinctive styles there. One person wrote a lot. One person made an incredible mark with just a few songs. One person wrote some and another person hardly wrote at all. The stylistic differences are obvious both musically and lyrically and continued with the various permuations of The Band and into solo work.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 19:31:08 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

For some reason a memory surfaced that Robbie, in discussing NLSC in a magazine interview at the time of its release, said that a song or two by Rick and/or Richard had been considered for inclusion but was/were dropped. Presumably they were recorded, but I don't think they've appeared subsequently. (Have they?) Maybe the article in question is in Jan's library somewhere.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 19:29:16 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

PutUpYourDukes,PutEmUp,PutEmUp

Subject: Take One More Step Over That Line And I'll

Pat, one more thing. NO doubt, these guys were trying to do something lasting and meaningful. And succeeded.Where they failed, and where most musicians are lost, is in the business world. Robbie and Grossman handled that for them, and really could be why the credits are what the credits are. Really could be their call. Why the other guys went along with it is another story. We all know that one.

One more thing, actually the one more thing I meant to write, no one picked up on the intended irony in my choice of monikers. It was intended to add a little levity, and it also throws another view on "The Feud".


Entered at Fri Feb 14 19:07:37 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

PutUpYourDukes,PutEmUP,PutEmUP

Subject: Pat

Honestly, your earlier post was unclear to me, however, this one makes good sense . you have a good point.my answer to your question is two fold, if the truth is as explained in Levon's book, then Robbie was making these decisions for these guys . No doubt, i am sure you could agree that it was not likely that anyone aside from robbie ever viewed a copyright form until after TLW. The other possibility is as Crazy Chester posted, that Albert was behind all of this.

I firmly believe noone gave much of a flying fuck back then, because of abundance of everything. But i still think Robbie was wrong on moral grounds.

If we start with Levon's version as the truth, then we can find many explanations as to why Rick, Levon, and Richard have credits once in a while.

If we start with robbie's version as the truth, well, then the answer would be cause they hardly wrote.

It all depends on who you are inclined to believe.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 18:57:09 CET 2003 from pool-141-153-194-74.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.194.74)

Posted by:

Bumbles

Location: New Jersey U.S.A.

Subject: The Albert Goldman Connection

CRAZY CHESTER: Interesting new angle on the feud, although how JRR came to be manipulated by a columnist for Life magazine and future biographer of Lenny Bruce, Elvis Presley, and John Lennon, remains to be seen. Maybe they were like brothers.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 18:38:09 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Hank

I must be smoking something, but that post actually made sense to me.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 18:23:27 CET 2003 from dny0.rrd.com (162.27.9.20)

Posted by:

Crazy Chester

Location: NYC

Subject: Who Screwed Who?

My impression from all the reading I've done, is that Robbie Robertson was manipulated by Albert Goldman.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 18:20:12 CET 2003 from h-68-164-13-216.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.13.216)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Straw dog, Putupyourdukes. The question is: did Richard Manuel break the brotherly bond with his solo songwriting claims? Rick Danko? Did Levon break that bond by claiming a half-credit on Strawberry Wine? Did he usurp Garth on Life Is A Carnival? Why does nobody offer an answer here?


Entered at Fri Feb 14 18:14:42 CET 2003 from (129.237.250.26)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Ed Voci

I for one will look forward to your post, and as far as I am concerned the "door" is still open for you here. Looking at the Middle East conflict from more than one perspective doesn't make someone a pawn of propagandists, or anti-Semitic, or an architect of another Holocaust.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 17:36:49 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

PutUpYourDukes,PutEmUp,PutEmUp!

Subject: Yessirree Hank! Nail On The Head

Hank: may i commend you on your insights! yes, they all led in different ways, and the fact that they were like brothers , it follows that they would assume a five way split. you can be sure noone but robbie gave a crap at the time, and that is primarily what weakens the argument against robbie. The length of time involved.

pat brennan: there is a huge difference between performance (sales) royalties and songwriting royalties. you know that.songwriting royalties are ad infinitum. my argument is you live and work like brothers, you split like brothers. honor and trust are the issue. plus, there is the fact that they did not get paid to arrange. What these 4 guys did bring to the songs far surpasses the normal contributions that bandmembers bring to songs.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 16:35:58 CET 2003 from dialup-0365.dublin.iol.ie (193.203.145.109)

Posted by:

Hank

Location: Cork, like.........
Web: My link

Subject: God is a concept........

The Reality is that All Christians and Muslims are actually Jews.....

Christians and Muslims worldwide all believe in The All-Powerful Male God of Israel.....What's going on is club/gang warfare.....who owns the most valuable turfs........unfortunately, this club/gang warfare could destroy ALL the turf......

Now, it's easy to say that let's banish all religion and viola!....no more problems!.... Human experience shows, however, that The All Powerful Male God of Israel.....like many other Gods and Goddesses....continually appears in the form of burning herb bushes, thunder and lightning, atomic bombs, the printing press, TV, The Internet, Movies, Pop Stars, Movie Stars, Rock Singers, Rock Bands........

YOU name it..and there HE is!.......GOD!.....and you CAN'T argue with it.........

Jesus had the most original idea, by far......"I Am The SON of God" sez He!........

Walk on water and raise The Dead.....

Forgive your enemies, turn the other cheek..........

Wise Men from The East and a Virgin Mother.......

No more Human Sacrifice...........I AM The LAMB of God!

Tell all the Nations about The All Powerful Male God of Israel!

Very impressive stuff......we STILL can't do some of that stuff today!......

Up on the cross with ya, laddie!

North America is actually The Promised Land......and, as The All Powerful Male God of Israel predicted, The Promised Land was delivered to The People of THE PLANET EARTH by The Judeo-Christian desecendants of The Sons and Daughters of European Israel......whether they be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or whatever yer havin' yerself.......a land FULL of Milk and Honey, Coca Cola, Hamburgers, Golden Corn on the Cob with Rich Creamy Butter (or I Can't Believe it's Not Butter), Peanut Butter and Jelly, Baseball, Basketball, Rock'n'Roll, Jazz, the Blues, Country and Western, Sir Duke, Elvis, Chuck, The Band, The Dead, Bob Dylan, The Simpsons, Hollywood, New York, Texas, Reno, 'Frisco, Tahoe......

Man, you name it.....if we ain't got it.......We'll Get It!.....That's what I like about the West!........

As I said yesterday, "GLOBAL AMERICA"..........Is the New American Global Order gonna rule The World fairly and squarely or do what it did, worldwide, to The Native Americans? We shall see!

Then again, you gotta hand it to Mohommad.......it seems Mohommad had the intuition to know that his people were sitting on top of all that oil! Maybe that's what The All Powerful Male God of Israel REALLY told Mohommad!..... and the religion of Islam was set up by The All Powerful Male God of Israel to protect all that oil........ just like Christianity was set up by The All Powerful Male God of Israel to go on out there and Conquer The Promised Land of North America!!.....and now we all have to watch them duke it out!!!!!

I dunno....What'cha think, there, Mullar Omar?

The Reality about The Band is, of course, that they had NO LEADER......no mainman........not even like the Stones or The Beatles, where there were TWO leaders.......The Doors had Jim, the VU had LOUUUUUU! (oi! B.E.G.!) The Police had Sting, Queen had Freddie, Townsend led The Who......and on and on......

But who did The Band have?......no one.......Who was the leader of The Band?........RR tried to be leader towards the end.....but it USED to be LEVON and The Hawks.......Richard was the LEAD singer......Rick LED them on stage and was the prettiest for the girls.....and Garth LED them round and round in musical circles which fascinates listeners to this day and will continue to do so, as long as folks have ears........

We can argue forever about who screwed who over and all that but, at the end of the day, The Band is a text-book lesson about when young talented musical men get together, pay heavy dues and CAN'T decide WHO is the leader..........Tragic results may occur..........Bands like The Red Hot Chilli Peppers and U2 have LEARNED from The Bands mistakes.....if yer gonna ACT communal, divde ALL the takings and losses COMMUNAL......

I think, for what it's worth, that AFTER TLW, they shoulda gone back to being Levon and The Hawks and set themselves up to be backing musos for the stars.....sorta like Booker T and The MGS..... It was there on the screen to be seen......and they live in the shadow of TLW forever!

Then again, I should really try to figure out what I should be doing with my OWN life than be expostulating on what was and is, despite all the heartaches and tragedy, a GLORIOUS musical heritage.....The Band!


Entered at Fri Feb 14 16:17:20 CET 2003 from pool-141-153-194-74.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.194.74)

Posted by:

Bumbles

Location: New Jersey U.S.A.

Subject: Libby Titus LP

Not my cup of tea, but I notice someone on eBay is auctioning a copy of an eponymous 1968 Libby Titus lp on Capitol. No indication given of sidemen, producer, or Band involvement. The program is heavy on Lovin’ Spoonful and Beatles covers, including “Here, There & Everywhere” and “Fool on the Hill,” which indicates that the 1977 release on the Amherst label mentioned in P. Viney’s article on rumored Band sessions may be a reissue of this. The earlier recording date also makes Band involvement less likely. Anyone desiring more info will probably have to buy what looks like it’s going to be a fairly pricey record.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 16:04:48 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

If you have to have one: Rhino is selling a limited edition vinal version of TLW with all kinds of extras. http://www.rhinohandmade.com/browse/ProductLink.lasso?Number=7801


Entered at Fri Feb 14 15:13:52 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.11)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Emanuel

Emanuel, Levon has been playing with a matched grip for the past several years.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 14:38:14 CET 2003 from node14654.a2000.nl (24.132.70.84)

Posted by:

emanuel

on a lighter note Does anybody know if levon still plays traditional grip. or did he change to match grip the last couple of years? being a drummer myself I was just interest


Entered at Fri Feb 14 14:13:04 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: Garth in TLW; Al Kooper and The Weight; the mess here and in Palestine

In TLW go back and look at Garth's face and listen to his tone of voice when he says: "...and getting the songs together."

I have an Al Kooper organ instrumental version of The Weight on a CD called "Al's Big Deals". It raucous, bold and loud.

I'm busy with work right now, but will have something to post a little later about Palestine and Israel, the history of European and Ottoman domination/rule/colonization in Palestine, and holacaust demagoguery. edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Fri Feb 14 14:00:22 CET 2003 from node14654.a2000.nl (24.132.70.84)

Posted by:

emanuel

Subject: empty now

thats cool, you speak a bit of dutch (write should I say) you made a couple of little mistakes but the funny thing is that its almost south african. Where is Geldermalsen again Jacqueline? have you been to amsterdam before empty now?


Entered at Fri Feb 14 13:42:19 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Empty Now: nice link!


Entered at Fri Feb 14 12:07:40 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

of Geldermalsen


Entered at Fri Feb 14 11:49:41 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: Jacqueline

Hallo Jaqueline, Dank je wel voor het gemakelijke Amsterdamer site in nederlandse, het spraak van de beste rijk op ard.... Wer is Ledsplein bij deze daag ?....Antwoord in engelse AUB.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 06:22:45 CET 2003 from tnt-77-123.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.123)

Posted by:

Tracy er, formerly ahroo & kramedogsdish

What is up with these weird names? Can't people use their own REAL ones? Jeez, and people thought kramedogsdish was cowardly.

Back to the afformentioned (many times) feud for songwriting royalties and publishing rights, etc. I think every band comes up with their own system of writing. I've found that many of the bands or groups from the 60s in particular usually had one main songwriter. Not everybody would get credit because that's the way they dealt with it. I'm personally glad that John Densmore is a pain in the ass for Ray Manzerak. They all made the pact way back when Morrison was still around that they all shared in the credit. Obvioulsy that doesn't sit too well with Ray and him wanting to sell the rights to Doors songs for commercials. Densmore gets veto power all the time. That's why we have him to thank for not selling out to commercials.

I'm reminded of two of my favorite bands...besides The Band. Those two would be Queen and Aerosmith. When it comes to Queen, all of the members would get credit when it came to very specific songs. All four members carried their weight and contributed when it came to songwriting. You could even tell their style.

On the other hand, you have Aerosmith. Tyler and Perry are usually credited and they decided to work it as so. Steven Tyler is the main songwriter, but when somebody else has something to start that song off with, it's credited to them. Even in their worst drug influenced haze, they never had a problem. Producer, Jack Douglas was even credited for a few songs. Sure, Hamilton, Whitford, and Kramer are part of the band and when it comes time for them to, they do their job as the best rhythm section around, tight as can be. If they write something which leads to a song then they get credit. With everything they've been through, they managed to come out still in tip top shape. Most of the band members have two houses, and it's not just Tyler or Perry. Let's not forget that their management team of Leber and Krebs took 50% of their rights away. It didn't bother them all that much. To this day, they still don't have too many regrets other than getting gacked to the nines.

Why should a band or any band member of any group be so pissed off by credits when the incident happened 20 or 30 years ago? Isn't it THEN that they should take a good look at what's going on? One album goes by, a second goes by. Third? Who cares? The money is flowing and they don't have to do much about it other than their regular duties of keeping that band together. Get in financial disarray and all hell breaks loose. "Wait a minute. You mean I'm not get anything from this? No, I didn't write anything. That's his job." I don't think it goes like that. As has been stated before, wasn't Robbie a bit protective of his rights as a songwriter when Morris Levy was taking credit simply because he owned Roulette Records? Wasn't it Levon who once said he didn't want anything to do with music in a business-wise sense?

I sure as hell never heard any of the E Street Band bitch and moan about credits. Like I said, some people do it based on songwriting. Some do it based on arranging. Some do it based on both, but most of the time it's based on who did what first.

I think what it boils down to is timing on this issue. If the other guys in The Band were so worried about their credits and how much they were getting paid, then they should have checked it out earlier, not 20 or 30 years later. I don't believe the other guys were that timid not to speak up. I think they just didn't care and were too busy "having too much fun." As it is, I thought Levon didn't sell his percentage of the publishing rights, or did he give that up? It also has a great deal of how you invest your money.

Tracy

(no other name will do)


Entered at Fri Feb 14 06:07:57 CET 2003 from tigger.plain.net.au (203.166.46.74)

Posted by:

Webmaestro

Location: Adelaide,South Australia
Web: My link

Subject: G'day from sunny Adelaide,South Australia!

Very nice website. Please visit my website and sunny South Australia!!! :)


Entered at Fri Feb 14 05:53:09 CET 2003 from sunmedia.ca (205.210.170.48)

Posted by:

MIke Nomad

Subject: Speaking of Scorsese . . .

From Associated Press late Thursday . . .

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — Director Martin Scorsese was given a grammar lesson — and made to wear a curly blonde wig and red-sequined bra — on Thursday when he was crowned Harvard’s Hasty Pudding Man of the Year. Scorsese received the honour at the opening night of It’s a Wonderful Afterlife, a production of the Hasty Pudding Theatricals, an undergraduate dramatic troupe.

“I kind of had inside information that I was going to get the prize tonight, so I went along with everything,” Scorsese said.

Scorsese stood on the stage with a blackboard with the words “You talkin’ to me?” written on it, in reference to Robert DeNiro’s famous line from the Scorsese-directed movie Taxi Driver.

A Harvard student dressed as a staid schoolmarm made Scorsese repeat the grammatically correct phrase: “To whom are you speaking?”

The city of Cambridge declared Thursday Martin Scorsese Day and two representatives of the mayor’s office presented him a gold key to the city.



Entered at Fri Feb 14 05:29:25 CET 2003 from 156.16.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.16.156)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Thank you, B.E.G. and Peter Viney

Brown-Eyed Girl, I can't overstate how good it is to read your words in here, and thanks to you and Peter Viney for bringing Robbie back into the Guestbook. In contrast to the commentary here the last couple of days, they are more than refreshing, they are exhilarating.

Make Love, Not War! Happy Valentine's Day!


Entered at Fri Feb 14 05:26:12 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Before The Flood

Been following the comments about Before The Flood. Can't speak for the musicians involved or anyone else; but in February of '74....Maple Leaf Gardens Toronto, I LOVED BOTH NIGHTS! I had waited a long time since tour '65-'66 to hear Dylan and The Band back together again. It was magic time for me, especially because that was the first time I met Dylan thanks to Roberta.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 05:09:42 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3612930.sympatico.ca (65.93.194.43)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Perspectives on Valentine's Day

Valentine's Day...Steve Earle
I Hate Valentine's Day...Jewel
Funny Valentine...Chet Baker
Valentine Heart...Tanita Takaram
Valentine's Day Songs...Jimmy Fallon
Valentine...Replacements

Valentine...Nils Lofgren...featuring Springsteen

Today I'm thinkin' about the world we live in
All the love and hate that's floatin' around
All the times I felt so lost and helpless
You stood by me, you never let me down
Still I keep throwin' up these walls
Most of them I've built with stones
You tear 'em down and bridge the distance
Knowin' we ain't here to be alone
So let your blue heart open wide
Let's never leave our dreams behind
It would comfort and restore my pride
If you let me be your Valentine
Our differences are part of life
Still love will pass the test of time
I want every day and night
Girl, won't you be my Valentine
Be my Valentine
Be my Valentine
Be my Valentine

Valentine's Day Is Over...Billy Bragg

Poetry and flowers pretty words and threats
You've gone to the dogs again and I'm not placing bets
On you coming home tonight anything but blind
If you take me for granted then you must expect to find
Surprise, surprise

Valentine's Day is over, it's over
Valentine's Day is over......

Breakin' The Rules...Robbie Robertson

I tried to reach you
On Valentine's Day
But how can I reach you
when you're so far away......


Entered at Fri Feb 14 04:57:48 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Stephen Novik

Location: Edmonton Alberta CANADA

Lars, I don't think I like your beaver comment...


Entered at Fri Feb 14 04:49:00 CET 2003 from dialup-63.215.113.129.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.113.129)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Rhino just announced the Last Waltz vinyl release.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 04:35:17 CET 2003 from spider-tr053.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.198)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: Two Things on Writing

One: For many years I wrote and produced tv commercials, then moved on to doing promotions “Tonight on MSNBC…, He was a cold blooded killer…, blah, blah, blah” Not to blow too much smoke but I won my fair share of awards for writing (and producing – well maybe just a little more smoke:) Some spots I wrote on my own, with maybe a sentence here and there trimmed by another pair of eyes. Others were team efforts in which I got the credit and the award. How may you ask? It usually went like this: I came up with the concept. I tooled around with a couple working ideas. Threw some of the ideas off other writers, listened, nodded, took some advice to heart, threw out others, went back to my desk and molded some more. Then I’d re-bounce the idea again. Someone might go like, “Hey! What if you used a duck instead?” I’d go, “That’s it!” Then the line was, “And the duck said, I don’t like to get my feet wet!” {laugh track} Now, I got the credit and the award – Did writer “B” also deserve the credit…, well he didn’t get it…, On the other hand--- I’ve also been writer “B” and it has never been any skin off my back.

Two: I was in my share of bands when I was in my teens and twenties. Generally I was the least talented of musicians in the group but I was usually one of the chief writers. I’ve worked with wonderfully talented people who couldn’t write a lick. They could contribute like gang busters but write – not so much. I’d put together a song and we’d work on it and the guitar player would put in some nice fills around the basic sound of the song and really help give the piece definition but did he deserve a writing credit? My position would be, if he had some writing work to show for it, yes. He wrote nothing! Great player but never brought a single idea to the table – no concept – nada. He was terrific when given something to work with but was an empty well on his own – I don’t call that writing.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 04:24:53 CET 2003 from dialup-63.215.113.129.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.113.129)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

I enjoy the judgemental demanding that they not be judged.

DaveinMinn/Truthsayer, please answer something for me since you seem to know that nobody except Robertson made any money from their albums: do you have the same problem with Richard? With Rick? How about Levon claiming half the publishing on Strawberry Wine? How about Levon claiming credit over Garth on Life Is A Carnival?


Entered at Fri Feb 14 03:51:57 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Nobody, be they Chinese, Japanese or any other person from Asia, bows and says "ah so" at the same time as they have two different meanings. I have only heard Japanese use "ah so" and it roughly translates into "Is that so?" or "That's right". Bowing is done in formal social settings (for lack of a better term) used when thanking a person, when apologizing, when conducting introductions (instead of the handshake), etc.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 03:04:23 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Sister Woodstock

Subject: Happy Birthday!!!

Dear Butch... "Happy Birthday to you" ...Have a good one!!! Peace...


Entered at Fri Feb 14 02:48:08 CET 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Posted by:

Tiny Monster

Location: Out-There
Web: My link

Subject: *PANCAKES*

They're *PANCAKES* Lars !?!? ... For Christ sake man ... Pancakes ...



Entered at Fri Feb 14 02:38:30 CET 2003 from hvc-24-194-145-19.hvc.rr.com (24.194.145.19)

Posted by:

Lars

Location: Pine Bush (the flapjack capital of New York State)

Subject: Which is correct:"pancake" or "flapjack"?

Few foods are more overlooked than the common flapjack (pancake). They are a major part of not only the North American way of life, but are of great importance in England, as well. In the town of Olney, near Luton in southern England, there is an annual Pancake (flapjack) Race. On Shrove Tuesday, the day before Lent begins, Olney's housewives bake flapjacks. At noon, they meet in the village square, each carrying a griddle with a pancake inside. During the race each contestant must flip their flapjack at least three times. Sometimes a French woman enters the race and she must abide by the same rules, flipping her crepe at least three times. The winner receives a "kiss of peace" from the parish caretaker. If the French woman wins the race she is usually disqualified for having too thin a pancake (flapjack).

In Denmark the pancakes are similar to the French crepe and are made with extra milk and eggs. These are called "Danish pancakes." If one were to leave Copenhagen and take the ferry to Malmo, he could drink cheap liquor on the way and upon arriving in Sweden, discover that the very same flapjack is now called a "Swedish pancake." In Norway they are known as "flapjacks." Laplanders have yet another name for them, but I don't give a shit because I am really "down" on all Laplanders.

Tomorrow, we will discuss the habits of the common beaver, a very misunderstood mammal who never fights, but instead retreats from danger.


Entered at Fri Feb 14 01:07:51 CET 2003 from spider-te013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.178)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Web: My link

Subject: Have a laugh, see link


Entered at Fri Feb 14 01:02:39 CET 2003 from spider-te013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.178)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Whilst sipping the wine...

Yazooman: thanks for the info. As I said in my original post I was working off of memory, and certainly open to clarification. I don't know all the facts in the matter, but fully support accountabilty wherever it may lie. P. Viney: ???? Wish I were enjoying a pint of Boddington's with you in a cozy pub somewhere. Me thinks you contradicted yourself or showed predice in your last post. Yes, I agree DNA should NEVER be copywrited or patented except by the original owner/source, but who is to say the inventor of a particular formula or molecular structure is any less an artist than the creator of a symphony or opera? Government should be the sole creator? What if we applied that to Dylan and the Band in '67/'68? I don't think LBJ was a qualified arbitor. :) Think I got you on that one. I will sit here in the glow of self satisfaction until I (inevitably) get blown away.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 23:56:49 CET 2003 from du-tele3-231.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.231)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Spelin misteaks

I didn't spell correct my last post just to show Ben Pike that I didn't seriously take issue with his apawlin spelin. As F.Scott Fitzgerald said when his editor complained about his terrible spelling, "But if I spelled it all correctly, what would you do?"


Entered at Thu Feb 13 23:50:09 CET 2003 from du-tele3-231.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.231)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Copyright

Biffalo Bull- in some cases patent does cause problems. You shouldn’t be able to patent DNA for example. The current “war” on vitamins and herbal supplements in the European Community is because drug companies can’t patent Vitamon C or Echinachea, or homeopathic remedies, and therefore want to force people onto what they can patent. I think it's immoral to patent a life-saving medicine, though the drug companies would point to the billions they spend in research. I believe the state should compulsarily purchase such life-saving patents (but should also have to pay their full research costs). Ideally, the state would do the research itself, but it would all be swallowed in bureuacracy.

Copyright is a different thing than patent. It’s the right of the creator of music or literature or software to be paid for their works. Since the 1920s in Hollywood people have tried to pay creative artists a wage, but it doesn’t work. People burn the midnight oil or work for years on something. A tiny minority hit it big and get paid well. Most professional authors however receive between 40% and 60% of the national average wage for their labour, paid in royalties. If you want music and books someone has to be paid. The performer gets royalties, the writer gets royalties. It’s called copyright. Without it … well, there’ll be nothing but crap to download.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 23:30:30 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: the bane of our existence

my friends, i think that copyrighting causes too much animosity in this world, concentrating too much credit and money into too few hands. we should endeavour to recognise that all share in everything equally, the writer, the player, the listener. do some writers plagiarize others thoughts, musings, and make it to the lawyer sooner, hmmmm?


Entered at Thu Feb 13 23:14:08 CET 2003 from (203.197.126.107)

Posted by:

Yazooman

Subject: JTullfan

Sorry, but you are wrong on the fact that the Indian government had holdings in Union Carbide. There was no such law then. The Indian government's only ruling (in 1977) was that MNCs would have to divest off a large part of their holdings to Indian stockholders etc. British American Tobacco had to divest off a large part of its share. Coca Cola puled out of Inida in the late 70s because of this reason only. However Union Carbide was always in a position to dictate safety policy because it had majority shareholding. Rest of it would pretty much be public nd stock market. Maybe what you read was another lie perpetrated by UC.

Anyway, if you had read the whole article you would have found out the other crimes committed by Union Carbide. The whole point is why Warren Anderson still not being extradited by the US ? This guy is responsible for quite a "few" deaths too.

rgds

Yazoo

PS. As for the rest of the arguments going on, I am on with Crabby. We could all live happy if we threw our religious shit out.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 22:55:45 CET 2003 from du-tele3-231.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.231)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Conclusively …

Just list what people wrote after TLW. Robbie … Wonderful Remark, Fallen Angel, Crazy River, Breakin The Rules, Soap Box preacher, Ghost Dance, Golden Feather … just a few highlights from a list of fifty. And in comparison?

This seems to me to prove 100% that Robbie wrote the songs, and was still able to write songs with other people and on his own subsequently.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 22:45:31 CET 2003 from du-tele3-231.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.231)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Songwriting revisted

Dredging it up (it is at least about the Band!!!) I keep some of these songwriting debates on file. Pat B. posted this quote a while back- Greg Kot in the Chicago Tribune interviewed RR

"I know that Levon's had a tough time, he's had health problems, but it's not my fault and I wish him the best. To say that it was an issue [while they were together in The Band] is just nonsense, utter nonsense, after all these years. Who did the work? I tried, I begged Levon to write songs or help me write songs -- all the guys. I always encouraged everybody to write. You can't make somebody do what they don't want to do or can't do, and he's not a songwriter.

"With The Band he started to write one song, `Strawberry Wine,' the whole time and couldn't finish it, and I helped him finish it. And there were some other songs that I wrote and he was there when I was writing them, and just because he was being supportive, I gave him credit on a couple of songs. He didn't write one note, one word, nothing. What he's saying now is the result of somebody thinking about their financial problems. I wrote these songs and then 20 or 30 years later somebody comes back and says he wrote the songs? It never came up back then, and it's preposterous that it's coming up now."

In 1995 Robbie said (posted by BWNWIT):

I love Levon dearly and I always will, for all the tremendous times we had together, but really, you'd think he'd have more interesting things to think about in his life by now. I guess he blames me for breaking up The Band, and I suppose that's partly true, but he didn't say why. I didn't do it on a whim, believe me. You know, I called him up a couple months before the book came out, rather naively, to talk about the box set and how we should get together and play some music together. And he said, "Yeah, that sound good to me," like everything was hunky-dory. He didn't say, "Hey, look, I've got this book coming out".... And just because someone's in the room when a song is being written doesn't mean they helped write it. Don't get me wrong - Levon and Rick and Richard contributed tremendously to the arrangements and to the sound of those records, and there's no way to explain how important Garth was in terms of taking us to new places musically. But I'm sorry, it's just not true. And in a few cases, I thought I was more than generous when someone was in the room while I was writing a song.... These were, and are, very talented guys, and it was a joy to hear them when they were on their mark. But then when you go into the studio and everyone's not really there for it, it bruises you in your soul. So if you want to know why I didn't want to go on the road with these guys any more and why The Band had become this pathetic, drug-infested, dysfunctional organization and why I thought we should bring it to a conclusion, then read his book.”

Pat also quoted Rick Danko (Rolling Stone 1987):

"Robbie was always one of my favorite singers. But he was always shy of the microphone. Might have been an element of stage fright there. He would sing the parts for us, and we would reproduce them." Reproduce.

Rick’s last interview, 1999:

QUESTION: There are other issues related to songwriting, in disputes you've had with Robbie Robertson over sharing credit for much of the Band's repertoire.
RICK: I don't have a problem with any of it, you know? I'm a very thankful person. Whatever publishing I've shared with people, whatever songwriting credits I've shared and whatever payments I've gotten, I'm thankful. I could have ended up having to get a real job

The analogy I post every few weeks is this. Take “The Weight” by Diana Ross & the Supremes with the Temptations. Different arrangement altogether. Still the same song. If anyone’s contributions to The Band version were carried over to the Diana Ross version, then their contribution amounted to writing. If their contributions to the Band version don’t carry over, then they didn’t contribute to writing. Song copyright is the top line (melody) and the lyric. period. All else is arranging. So, Miles Davis does ‘Time after Time.’ The credits read (Lauper-Hyman). We don’t know who wrote the lyrics or whether they shared them, but on this instrumental version they split 50 / 50. No publishing at all for Miles. The Hendrix version of ‘All Along The Watchtower’ is (B. Dylan.) What Jimi does counts only as arrangement. Performance royalties - yes. Publishing - no


Entered at Thu Feb 13 22:43:08 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

OneBattleAin'tEnough, PutUpYourDukes

Subject: Dave in Minnesota, here is some truth for you

Session players very frequently make up their parts. They may do it on the spot, and a song may get cut on the second take, with the various players making up their parts. Could be second take , or fourth take. But they got paid for the session, and that is part of the deal. Going in. In the case of the Band, you are talking ABOUT A BUNCH OF GUYS WHO LIVED TOGETHER LIKE BROTHERS, AND SPENT ALOT OF TIME, HUGE AMOUNTS OF TIME, WORKING OUT THOSE SONGS TOGETHER.INTRICATE PARTS,INTRICATE ARRANGEMAENTS.NOT SONGS CUT BY THE SEAT OF THEIR PANTS. And to the best of our knowledge,Rick, Richard, Levon and Garth did not get paid to participate in the creation of those songs. So this was not session work, or paid for arrangement sessions. You bet your life they all wrote those songs.

In terms ofletting Robbie get away with thievery , alot was happening then. Money and other things were flowing. Levon did raise the issue of royalties. But as a whole, I bet all of them were afraid of pushing it too far and things ending right then and there. Too much beautiful music was being made, and too much fun was being had, etc., to risk that. That is how it went on so long. Nobody wanted the party to end.

But you can bet those songs were a group effort.

It is despicable that Robbie fucked his brothers so.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 22:38:11 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: Al Kooper

Bill: The "Lost Concert Tapes" are from a performance at the Fillmore East recorded during the same era as "The Live Adventures..." from the Fillmore West. Reportedly Bloomfield's playing is even better on the former! I haven't seen a song listing, but "The Weight" was part of the group's repertoire at the time. Al Kooper is also planning to put out a 3-CD box set of previously unreleased material featuring the late great Michael Bloomfield.

Pehr: I'll send you an e-mail.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 21:56:07 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Schmendrick,

Subject: My twin, Schmuckalovich, sent me

I am Schmuckalovich's smarter twin. However, I also have a shorter attention span, and a trendency towards frivolity. For example, John W. , although you have admitted that your attempt to compare Chinese invading New Jersey to European Jewry returning to reclaim the empty unused land of their ancestors, I have to bring it back up , albeit in the interest of humor?

What would you think if New Jersey was invaded by Chinese Jews (Achews, we call em, pronounced Achoo, and there are many. They descend form Jewish merchants, who internarried with Chinese women along the silk route. Can you envision an Achoo bowing and saying Ahso?). Now that would definitley present an analogical problem for us all.

Regarding your most recent post, nice to hear that you believe in Israel's right to exist. It is not easily reconcilable with your belief that they stole the land, but I am sure that in light of all the years and events that have passed many philosophical and pragmatic arguments can be made to reconcile the two on current grounds. However, I think that they did not steal the land. Without my going back to the history books on this one, I can not say for certain, but I do know that no nation owned that land. It was tribal, ot governmental. In the modern world, even at that time. tribal claims were not recognized. Never have been. When tribes formed governments, and/or kicked the holy crap out of less powerful tribes, they became the governing body. The European Jews came in and settled on ungoverned land, and did not attempt to do so by force. COntrarily they attempted to live peaceably and to lend a helping hand. Had the Arabs accepted the hand offered in peace and brotherhood, the development of the entire region could of been the result. The shortsightedness of the Arabs was enormous, Had they looked at the continually improving lot of the european sttlers, then the I sraelis afterwards, and said to themselves "Faizal, ya know , I have been a dumb Arabian bastard. The Schmegeggi Jew Boys, they know a thing or two. Let me go join forces with them, maybe i will be able to feed my children and my camels next week" they would of been a lot better off immediately, and the Middle East today could be a thriving region. Imagine. All it would of taken is the ability to want to live in peace, learn , and grow.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 21:57:10 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Sip The Wine

Since tomorrow is Valentine's Day, I thought the above song is an appropriate 'holiday' song. Since it is time for us guys to go shopping tonight, what better excuse to stop at the wine store and spend a few extra bucks on the good stuff. If you believe in 'Making Love and not war', well, what better weekend to practice what you preach! BEN PIKE: I saw a report that the government knew about the Oklahoma City bombing but did nothing. I could implement Clinton in that just as some have done to Bush on 9/11, but I won't. Doesn't mean I like him, but it does mean I don't accept that ANY president would resort to such things for political purposes.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 21:52:06 CET 2003 from ipc379600c.dial.wxs.nl (195.121.96.12)

Posted by:

Jacqueline

Location: Holland
Web: My link

Subject: Burrito Deluxe in Holland

Jacqueline Location: Holland Web: My link Subject: Garth in concert in Geldermalsen ( Holland ) I've just heard that the concert in Venice is cancelled. Garth is playing on saturday the 15th in the Netherlands location. Nashville Boulevard in Geldermalsen. If you want to make that trip you're welcome there! Further info at www.nashvilleboulevard.com


Entered at Thu Feb 13 21:41:27 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

Long Distance Operator

Great to see Johnny Winter get mentioned in here. I'm a huge fan. For some reason, the man doesn't seem to get his due. "Second Winter" and "Still Alive And Well" are two of my all-time favorites, the former featuring Tommy Shannon of Double Trouble on bass duties.

I am of the opinion that Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali is a bit of a fraud. I know that's an unpopular viewpoint, but we are all entitled to have our opinions. Pehr, what's your take on Ali's repeated use of the term "Gorilla" in reference to Joe Frazier?


Entered at Thu Feb 13 21:31:53 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

DavidP: Thanks for the news on "Super Session". Are the live shows you mentioned outtakes from the "Live Adventures" album? There was a big commemoration for Richard 'King Bisuit Boy' Newell in Hamilton (Ontario) a day or two ago, and news reports have Live Adventures drummer, Skip Prokop, dazzling the throng as a member of a revivified Lighthouse doing "One Fine Morning". Richard Bell, John Till, Kelly Jay and many many others there too.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 21:21:21 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

Bassman, since I don't remember the specifics of your PREVIOUS inanities; thanks for the rehash. Those who watch what unfolds in the coming weeks should remember that ten oral sexes were the "plenty of amunition" that cost American taxpayers 72 million, and not so indirectly led to the "election" of an oil cartel who bungled the pre-9-11 warnings, then exploted the catasrophe as a pretext to settle old scores and expand it's power. Scary to think, when there are those as dim as Lee, what might have happened if he actually HAD had an ongoing affair with another woman, like many of his accusors across the asle. As Rumsfeild ponders Nukes in Iraq; I think we get a hint....

I think "Before The Flood" is slowly developing a bad rap. Dylan may have still been nervous about performing to a degree(we forget how long it had been) and felt he was repeating himself. At the time and for years, I don't remember Robertson saying anything negative about it. And the all Band side rocks out!


Entered at Thu Feb 13 21:19:12 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Schmucka - With me you are "preaching to the choir" as I happen to believe in Israel's right to exist. My point only is that the only way there could ever be peaceful co-existence would be if their neighbors accept that too, which I don't think they do. The world can't expect a peaceful resolution if one side does not accept the other's right to even exist. So I think that puts me more on the Israeli side, especially as I condemn all the terrorism. I will say however from a logic point of view, the American/Native American history has nothing to do with the Middle East situation. If I am wrong for stealing 10 dollars it does not absolve me of guilt just because I can point out someone else who stole 20 dollars.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 21:12:03 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.44)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Minnesota Facts?

Dave, you wrote "Why should we rehash things that occurred 30 years ago?". My opinion is we can't rehash them because we don't know what actually happened between the five members regarding this topic and many, many others.

You state "Levon is a bitter man." While Levon is certainly adamant and oft times vocal about his side of this story I can assure you he is not a bitter man. I believe we humans are certainly capable of focusing anger in a particular direction without allowing it to become the all encompassing theme of our being. I've been very fortunate to meet and talk with Levon on many occasions and I can assure you he is not a bitter man. His warmth and genuine appreciation for the people that support his band is clearly evident. He has treated me and, by the overwhelming majority of accounts, all the fans that seek him out with great respect and heartfelt gratitude.

As for Rick Danko, bitching was NEVER his style. No kinder soul wandered the planet. The topic is a dead horse. I know. I helped to kill it along the way. The only clear result of the endless discussions of this topic is the rock solid conclusion that this is business between two men that we can not possibly comprehend nor resolve. It seems best to allow both of them their opinions and methods of expressing them.

All that having been said, I wish the matter didn't exist but that, like most everything else in this world, is out of our control.

PEACE


Entered at Thu Feb 13 21:04:59 CET 2003 from m198214176085.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.85)

Posted by:

Pehr

Location: erth

Subject: Various

Interesting to see the Native Americans brought into this. I thinks the perspective they have on these issues and concepts are very much worth listening to. We are not the most sensitive of generations of two-leggeds, yet we live among the most sensitive of times.

Ah David Powell...MAH MAAAANNNN!

It is with tremendous pleasure I read your latest offering! I am "thrilkled" (thrilled typo looks like thrilled and tickled pink...Big Pink, in fact!)and excited as all get out!

Have you seen this new book on Bloomfield, "If You dig these Blues"? I blew threw it and I keep picking it back up and reading it from anywhere. If you care to discuss this bloomfield stuff further e mail me at Pehr1960 at yahoo. Its got some really fascinating insights into the life and the music and the history of it all that just blows me away. a great cd too included of 1964 stuff.

All this ugly war stuff. I dont care if I'm redundant. I loved seeing "The Greatest" in action in his prime and we need leaders like that. George plimpton tells that the shortest poem in the english language is called "Ode to a Microbe":

Adam

Had 'em.

someone told Muhammad Ali this as he was leaving Zaire and asked if he could make a shorter poem. He looked at all these boxing people, film people, news people , airline people, autograph hounds, and lots of just po' africans there to see him off and said,

"Me

WE!"

God, I love that. Peace.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 21:05:37 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Schmuckalovich

Subject: 4TH and Final Post, I Can't Count Past Four

J Tull Fan And John W. A big credit to both of you for owning up to having erred, and being civilized and gracious about it. I am happy to see the level of discussion raised! That is a miracle.

J Tull Fan, it is also refreshing to see that you have a grasp of what is and has actually transpired in the true political realities of that region.

John W. We are in a bit of a gray area. When European Jewry began arriving in what was being called Palestine, among other things, and began settling, i do not know that deeds to land were actually held. Apparently the situation was very similar to my analogy, that of American Indians and early American settlers. The difference is, that when European Jews settled on land that had a tribal or familial connection, that of being roamed over, they settled on arrid, empty land that did not have any hunting ground or geographic value. Only historical and religious value. And, this is most important, they did not ask anyone to leave, They definitely did invite the Arabs to live with them, on that same land in peace. They would have benefitted greatly if the Arabs did live with them , and help them settle and develop the land. The Arabs did not, instead continuing to live a nomadic existence, and waging war on the Jewish settlers who were attempting to develop the land. This is in the history books my friend.

Also in the history books is the facts that the Jewish settlers did not regularly go out hunting down Arabs and killing them, although the Arabs did attack them on a regular basis. Still Do, and will for eternity. The current politiacl creation of Palestinians and uprisings is the end resultof a long term plan created to maipulate world opinion. Apparently it is to a large degree successful.You are one person of many who has fallen for it.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 20:45:35 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

Well I can see that its time for a group hug, that or medication..


Entered at Thu Feb 13 20:27:11 CET 2003 from (12.40.177.18)

Posted by:

Dave

Location: Minnesota

Subject: Songwriting Credits

Still lots of talk about writing credits. I’ve usually sided with Robbie, but have wavered back and forth. I think Robbie addressed it pretty well recently when he said, “Of course the guys help with arrangements – that’s their fucking job”. Why should we rehash things that occurred 30 years ago?

Levon is a bitter man, right in step with John Fogerty. Question for Levon: Why the hell did you let one of your bandmates keep screwing you over and over and over? I can see maybe being fooled on Big Pink, and possibly on the brown album. But after that? Come on, if one of my co-workers was screwing me out of money that I was deserving – basically taking credit for my accomplishments, no way in hell would I let it slide”.

Bruce Springsteen has never credited any of the E-Street band with songwriting credits (with minor exceptions). Do you think Bruce got help with the arrangements from the band? Obviously. When he wrote in Tenth Avenue Freeze-out, “The change was made uptown and the Big Man joined the band…”, do you think he should credit Clarence Clemmons for his part in the song? Come on, without Clarence there would be no song, right? Moreover, what about the Big Man’s sax solo on Jungleland? Do you think Bruce said, “Here play it like this”? Doubtful. The guys in the band do their jobs and the songwriters pen the lyrics and basic structure of the songs. That’s what they get credit for, and that’s where the money is.

If Levon and Rick wanna bitch after the fact, too bad. They should have brought it up when the album was being finalized. Sour grapes, my boys.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 20:25:37 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Shmuckalovich - Bad analogy, perhaps. I'm not really trying to take sides and this is my last comment on this issue. But the truth of the history is that land was taken out from under people who's families owned that land for generations. Maybe they were not forced to leave the borders but they certainly were told that the deed to their daddy's land was now in someone else's hands. Would you have no resentment if you lost your inheritance in this way?


Entered at Thu Feb 13 20:24:58 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: Music

Some music news relating to Al Kooper: Sony will be releasing a remastered CD version of "Super Session" featuring Al Kooper, Michael Bloomfield, Stephen Stills, et. al. Also on tap is "Lost Concert Tapes / Fillmore East", a set of electrifying live performances by Al Kooper & Michael Bloomfield. The latter also includes a groundbreaking appearance by Johnny Winter sitting in with Kooper/Bloomfield on "It's My Own Fault". This performance was reportedly responsible for Mr. Winter's signing with Columbia. These releases are both set for March 4th.

If that's not enough, Mr. Kooper is currently working in his updated basement studio on 5.1 surround sound/SACD remixes for "Super Session" and Blood Sweat & Tears' first album, "Child Is Father To The Man" (produced by John Simon). Mr. Kooper celebrated his 59th birthday last week and performed in New York.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 20:19:30 CET 2003 from spider-ta041.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.61)

Posted by:

Schmuckalovich

Subject: Number Three . Response to John W

If the Israelis responded to the Arabs attacking them the same way that the citizens and military of the United States circa the 1800s reponded to American Indians attacking them, for what you consider similar reasons, then there would be no ARAB/Israeli conflict. The Israelis would of pulverized them a lot more easily and quickly than the early U.S. military was able to do. Israel has shown far more restraint and offered far more saction than this country ever has. Regardless of whatever absurdities are in your brain.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 20:09:26 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Shmuckalovich

Actually, I did know what you stated so well in your post, I just did not want to go through the effort of typing it! But your chastisement is taken and deserved. As a third party I have been ambivalent to the whole conflict, but i do know that Israel is a democracy, and the only one in the region at that. The Israelis are an industrious people who have miraculously built a great state on an inhospitable piece of land in a very bad neighborhood, and they have earned my admiration. They have also bent over backwards in the Oslo accords to accomodate the Palestinians, and they have gotten nothing but misery for it. No, I don't want to run the Palestinians into the sea. But until i see them acting in a benevolent, democratic, and peaceful manner, it is hard for me to sympathise with them. The Israelsi, to their credit, have allowed arabs into their government and parliament. Would the Palestinians do the same in a future state for Israelis living there? (Ironically, Iran allows religous minorites a parliament seat, and one of those is reserved for jews).


Entered at Thu Feb 13 20:05:00 CET 2003 from spider-ta041.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.61)

Posted by:

schmuckalovich

Subject: Post Number Two. I Can Only Count To Four.

Once again, Guestbookers do not know how to read or understand english. What I said was "Palestinian" is an absurd term to use to name the Arab refugees, and that "Palestine" is an absurd term to use to describe the area they are living in. Because the term has biblical and historical roots that includes all Semitic peoples.

as for John W.'s ridiculous attempt to draw an anology between Israel declaring statehood, and Chinese invading New Jersey, once again, go get a history book. The Jews that declared Israel a state did not wan tthe Arabs to leave the borders. What they did want was the ability to govern themselves and to stop the Arabs that were massacring them from doing so.

Ignorance is a terrible thing.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 20:02:09 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

Location: St. Paul

I was listening to "Before the Flood" last night, not the first time Ive listened to it but for some reasen I like it a little more than the previous times that Ive listened to it, which for being a newbie is about the tenth time or so. I get the impression that RR didn't particularly care for that time as far as from a creative standpoint but as a fan, Dylan and the Band I think were at there best. Both Dylan songs and the Bands songs I thought were very well done and it seemed like LH RD and Richards singing was impassioned. I really had the music turned up and although Ive always thought my favorite version of "Shape" was TLW version the "Floods" version is one hell of a rockin song, being new to these guys I find myself changing my mind as I experiance all of there music as to which I like best.....


Entered at Thu Feb 13 19:47:25 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

Location: Toronto

History's such an odd thing, isn't it? It's easier to say that Israel doesn't really exist (because the state and related citizenship was created in the 1940s) than Palestine, which was known as such by WW1 (and possibly long before, for all I know). As for what the Bible had to say, there was an Israel there, but there was a Palestine then too. And the bulk of today's Palestinians are more likely to be descendants of THOSE Palestinians than the bulk of today's Israelis are likely to be descendants of THOSE Israelis. But none of that is any justification for anyone to be killed or cleared off their land, or pushed into the sea - or even forced to read this Guestbook for eternity ...

On a musical note, I see that the Toronto band (and person) Danko Jones has been nominated for the best-rock-album Juno. I guess his parents got tired of seeing all the little Dylans in swaddling clothes and decided to name him a little differently. (There are a few Hudsons and lots of Manuels around, but it's harder to make a case that there's a connection. Robertson Davies is out of the question for chronological reasons alone.)

On another musical note, Danny Brooks and the NorthernBlues Gospel Allstars, who John D and I have posted about here, also got a nomination - in the Funky Christian category.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 19:46:40 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Well.... Ultimately you have to look at the Balfour Declaration and ask if it was fair to the Arabs of the region for Britain and the U.N. to carve up that land and set up the state of Israel on that land. The answer of course is that was a raw deal for them, and they have a legitimate grievance, the Palestinians are wrong not so much in their grievance as the way they have chose to respond to it (suicide bombings). Imagine if the Chinese invaded New Jersey and told the residents to just get the hell out, we are sure you can find a home with your "brothers" in places like New York and Pennsylvania. I don't think that would go over too well with most Americans.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 19:36:04 CET 2003 from plantlogic.com (209.195.208.11)

Posted by:

bassmanlee

It is with considerable restraint that I will refrain from any political commentary except to say 'Amen' to Bob Wigo. BTW, Bob as I recall you once worked at Tower theatre? Please email me if you can perhaps recall some shows I may have seen there during that time.

Also please Mr. Pike please contact me and cite EXACTLY what you are referring to with continued comments such as "Basemanlee shows a fundemental absence of facts regaurding the "Clinton Scandels"" (sic) or kindly shut up. Besides stating that (as I recall) your boy certainly gave them enough ammunition...like leaving bodily fluids on interns...and chastising you for beating the dead horse (both of which are still true), I don't recall ever claiming to be an authority on the subject.

On a musical note, finding the Lousiana Red CD growing on me with every listen. Also wondering how to introduce a 20-something who's favorite group is the Beatles to the joys of the Band. Where does one start?

drendall_at_fcc_dot_net


Entered at Thu Feb 13 19:27:24 CET 2003 from spider-ta023.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.53)

Posted by:

schmuckalovich

For those of you who are not aware of the truth, Butch has in his own way just given a short yet accurate history lesson on the realities behind the dilemma of a state of palestine.

First of all, yes, the Jewish settlers who were continually fighting off Arab attackers did wish to live peacefully side by side, and did so with those Arabs who desired the same, mostly Druz tribesmen.

Secondly,when Israel declared statehood, the Arab nations did attempt to and have since continually tried to wipe Israel and all Jews there off the face of the earth and " drive all the Jews into the sea". Thirdly, after the Arab failure in the 1967 Six Day War and their sneak attack on a Jewish Holiday in 1973, they did indeed attempt to create a phony political illusion of a state of homeless "palestinians". In a massive campaign of psychological and political terror against their own pweople, Arab leadership induced arabs living in Israel to leave, for fear of their lives at the hands of Israelis, who had no intention of doing them harm. Instead, those same Arabs ended up homeless, and in camps, that the Israelis had to set up,for refugees living in the desert. Terrorist leadership now had pawns, living ,being born and bred in squalor, that they couod indoctrinate in hatred from birth. This is the group of "palestinians " that the world has been watching on the news for the longest time. The name "Palestine" for an Arab state, or "Palestinians" for Arabs only, is also absurd, in and of itself a fallacy. These actually are terms that apply to all Semites and land where Semites live. Semites being Jews and Arabs both. JTull, you need to know that. An earlier post of yours indicated your ignorance of the fact that Jews and Arabs are of the same race.

Regardless of what a lot of you people think, Israel is a peaceful state. They have no wish to kill every Arab. They just want to be left alone. If Israel was a war monger, the Arabs would of been nothing but a bad memory a long time ago. As far as the relationship between Israel and the United States being a thorn in the side of Arab states , and a cause of hatred towards this country and Americans in general, tough titties. And anyone who thinks that can go suck on a tough titty. Israel is really one of two allies the United States can count on for sure, the other being Great Britain.And Israel is the only democracy in that part of the world. If you do not think that matters, it certainly does.

The amount of restraint that Israel has shown in dealing with her Arab adversaries is staggering.No way would our country handle the crisises that Israel has, and conducted itself with the restraint that Israel has while it's citizenship has been terrorized and massacred for over 54 years. Talk about a country with soul!And dedication to life and survival.I am a Jew and proud of it. I am also proud to be an American.

Regarding Butch's nastiness towards some of the members in here, I find that to be unfortunate, but it is his unfortunate choice. Ed Voci is a good guy. I do not agree with all his political opinions, but it is right to express them. And he does so eloquently and politely.That is important. People handle things differently, as do countries. The loss of family is tragic indeed. As ahuman being , I say Butch, I really feel for your faily's loss of Shoshana. Politics, killing, death, are all serious matters. Talk is not going to solve the ARAB/Israeli conflict. Why? Because the terrorists will not allow it to happen.Once that becomes clear, and it is clear, what is the next step? Acknowledging that eternity will be spent with a country living in terror, or constantly trying to find a way ti improve the situation a little. That is what the Israeli's have been faced with. And they have been constantly trying to improve the situation a little, while living while being terrorized, AND BUILDING AND IMPROVING THEIR COUNTRY. Not living in tents and squalor. It is a wonder that they have chosen to do so, and that they have not annihilated every Arab nation around them, which they could of done if they chose.

Not only that, every time they have been provoked, they have restrained themselves. Something for alot of you to think about.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 18:52:31 CET 2003 from spider-tf084.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.214)

Posted by:

butch

thats the beauty of America,,,,

different points of view,, & all seem to have some validity,,, even emanuelle & voco,,,( very little for them, tho ),,,,

of course,, im not trying to shut them up,, wish they can say the same,,,,

BTW,, you keep calling them palestinians,, no such people,,, no such place,,, just more arab propaganda for the bleeding hearts sympathy,,,,

let em go to jordan or saudi arabia,,, their "brothers",, THEY dont want them either, do they ?


Entered at Thu Feb 13 18:30:02 CET 2003 from 1cust250.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (67.250.109.250)

Posted by:

Rollie

Location: www.carlosdeljunco.com

Subject: Fine Canadian Musical Talent

For those interested in checking out an other-wordly musical talent, go to the above link. Just had the opportunity to check out Carlos Del Junco , world champion blues harpist, who performed a few hrs from my home town.Carlos has taken the simple "blues" harp , and turned it into an instrument on a par with the saxaphone, clarinet, etc..... amazing chromatic, jazz like runs, mixed with Cuban rythms, fusion , and of course, heavy doses of blues. Definitely a mind opener.........we could use a little of that around here I suspect. But hey! That's what musics supposed to be about. Tearing down walls and bringing folks together.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 17:29:46 CET 2003 from node14654.a2000.nl (24.132.70.84)

Posted by:

emanuel

Location: amsterdam

Subject: thank you gene

that was actually pretty disturbing to read . so much hate. If this is what (SOME) people come up with. A lot of people in my family have been killed or had to hide for several years in the Netherlands and poland during the war too. revenge can never be the answer!! the only way there could ever be a peaceful israel is through talks. I did n't want to react on political issues anymore but I could n't help myself.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 17:03:54 CET 2003 from dialin-133-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.1.133)

Posted by:

Gene

When I say not all Americans believe this, I refer specifically to the 'Kill All Palestinians' nonsense and similar hate. It has no place here.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 16:58:06 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Funny line from David Letterman: "This year's Academy Awards presentation will be broadcast live to 113 countries... and they all hate us!"

I think history shows that times of war have a big effect on all mass media and entertainment. Although Internet forums being a relatively new one, I would think it would be affected the same way. During WWII, you saw changes in popular music (i.e. the Andrews Sisters, popular love songs about separated lovers, etc.), and certainly the movies (Abbot and Costello making "Buck Privates", Humphrey Bogart and James Cagney fighting Nazis spies). Vietnam had its obvious effects on popular music. Not too many popular figures kind of just went along as usual and ignored the "politics". I guess this forum can ignore world events and just continue to analyze old Band songs to death.

Eddie Hodel - I still have that live Gurus tape for you, maybe I can get it to you at the Levon show at the Bottom Line!


Entered at Thu Feb 13 16:55:18 CET 2003 from dialin-133-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.1.133)

Posted by:

Gene

Not all Americans believe this ...and this is certainly not the proper place for this crap


Entered at Thu Feb 13 15:56:26 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

As my mother used to say "Correct spelling is what separates us from the apes". Of course I was in elementary school at the tiem, er, time.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 15:52:45 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

butch

hey Voci, dont let the door hit ya in the ass as you go,,,

how dare you or any of you judge my views ???

were you named for my uncle , killed by the Nazis ?,,did 90% of YOUR father's family die in the ovens ???

well till it happens ,, judge not,, lest ye be judged,,,

i believe in the existance of Israel , under ANY & EVERY condition,,,it is a sanctuary for my people , so all of you do gooders wont have to stand by idly & watch us die,

WE WILL NOT GO LIKE SHEEP INTO THE OVENS AGAIN !!!!!!

sorry,, you folks also miss the difference,,, the Israelis are DEFENDING themselves against attack from all sides,,, Peace was offered to her neighbors in 1948 after partition,,, the entire arab nations all thought they could " drive the jews into the sea",,,,their words,,

well, we kept defeating them,, so they make up this make-believe people & country, palestine & just start their war over again,,,

my young beautiful cousin Shoshana was killed ( she was a major in the paratroopers ) as she walked one night,,,

round em all up ???? you betcha,,,, they have proven to have no shred of any known civilized behavior,, so say by-by,,, cause when the missles fly,, we will triumph again,,,

& if ya dont like it,, i could care less,,,,

NEVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!


Entered at Thu Feb 13 15:22:41 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.44)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: A Peaceful Respite

A reminder.....this Sunday, February 16 at 9:00AM Eastern....my favorite ninety minutes of television, "CBS Sunday Morning" will be airing a feature piece on Bob and Jakob Dylan.

Enjoy!

PEACE


Entered at Thu Feb 13 15:12:35 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Another day, we're still here, what more can we want?

So things got a tad off course. For the most part, we pulled ourselves back, not too much cussing, and it seems to be petering out. The next great musical thread is just around the block. Anyhow, Hank, there ARE some remedies for native americans. It is called the Indian Casino, created by an intentional loophole in our laws to permit official tribes some powers of the state. These wildly successful casinos, in the case of Foxwoods in CT the largest and most profitable in the western hemisphere, have provided tribes with hundreds of millions in income per year. With it they have reinvested in their communities (ie. free college tuition for all tribe members) and gained quite a bit of political clout, etc. And I think that's good. On the Union Carbide/Bhopal issue, Indian law at the time required a 50% ownership interest on behalf of the government in any 'foreign owned' facility at the time. Union Carbide recommended safety features the Indian government vetoed. My memory is old on this, but that is what I remember.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 15:04:53 CET 2003 from spider-to082.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.82)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

Ha! There you go Vinny, a solid, mean spirited low blow, that's what we like to see...

Spelling, I would suggest, is to brains what fish skining is to coin collecting, but it is perhaps a good topic for further exploration! Actually, on the surfing of the brows, I think my proud posts reveling in my, let us say" passion" for "2000 Maniacs" and the like would probably bar me from the highbrow club. If I can be rightfully chained down with the lows; I leave for more objective and interested parties.

What seperates us may be your talent for common cause or woeful indulgence of cant. That it should SURPRISE you at this point in time that CERTAIN PARTIES express ugly and racist attitudes is, at the very least, NOT something you should be taking out on others. And you might ask yourself "What really bugs me? the uglyness of what you are saying or the fact that I HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT IT?" If only Harry Belafonte and the rest of us would leave such things alone we could all be happy here in happy valley!

Yes, there is a time and a place for everything; but there may be a time and a place for a time and a place. All you and I will see is a wart or two; it's a long way from having a bomb dropped on your house.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 14:32:03 CET 2003 from dialup-0864.dublin.iol.ie (193.203.147.96)

Posted by:

Hank

Location: Rebel Cork
Web: My link

Subject: America the Beautiful

I sang "America the Beautiful" one night here in Cork with a Native American chief as a prelude to one of my own songs......and the chief sang it with me....even tho' I updated the words.......I could tell the song meant alot to him.......and why not? My own song, "Global America" goes like this:

Everywhere I Go, I Can't Believe It's Not America

All Over The World, I Can't Believe It's Not America

Global America!

Everywhere I Go, I Can't Believe It's Not America

All over The USA, I Can't Believe It's Not America

It's A-Changin'

Gettin' Strange 'n' You Wanna Help It On Its Way?

Global America!

Cousin Minnie Sez "How Delicious!"

Little Debbie's Got a Snack For You

You Want It? You Got It!

We're Gonna Go Out and Get It For You!

You Want It? You Got It!

We're Gonna Send The Army In Too!

Global America!

Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey!

The Right To Bear Arms Is Constituted

If Something Really bugs You

You Can SHOOT IT!

Shoot it UP! Shoot it UP!

Bare your Arms and Shoot it UP before it Shoots YOU Down!

Global America!

Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey!

I know that some of you reading this already have the new Open Kitchen album with this song on it, but for those of you who don't, click on "my link" if you wanna hear some of it..........

If "America the Beautiful" was the national anthem and if Modern America would TRY to make up to the native peoples all the wrongs committed against them....THEN and only then would the The USA be able to face emnity from the outside and deal with it.......

You cannot exterminate natives from an area and not expect some sorta Karma to come down on yer ass...........

I'm sorry to say folks, but that's what's going on right now.

Can't you hear them War Drums Beating Loud? Only this ain't no Hollywood Western.

Indians scattered on Dawns Highway....... bleeding.......ghosts crowd the young childs eggshell mind.

Take what you Need.....and Leave The Rest.......


Entered at Thu Feb 13 14:27:12 CET 2003 from dialin-208-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.1.208)

Posted by:

Gene

I hope Mr. Helm doesn't share those bigoted views.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 13:44:04 CET 2003 from dialup-0522.dublin.iol.ie (193.203.146.10)

Posted by:

Hank

Location: Rebel Cork

Subject: America the Beautiful

"O Beautiful...

For Spacious Skies...

For Amber Waves of Grain....

For Purple Mountain Majesty, Above The Fruited Plain!

America

America

God Shed Gods Grace on Thee.....

And Crown Thee Good

With Fine Neighborhoods

From Sea to Shining Sea......"


Entered at Thu Feb 13 12:09:52 CET 2003 from du-tele3-156.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.156)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Apolitical Blues

Ben – show me one case of an intelligent persuasive argument leading to a change of minds in recent political discussions here. People repeat their beliefs / entrenched position – i.e. they do indeed vent their spleen or express their fears. In the worst cases, they expose themselves as neo-fascists. I do find it hard to read an informative interesting post about a multi-ethnic blues concert one day, followed by an appallingly racist comment from the same guy the next. I wasn’t saying ‘stick your head in the sand (and your bottom in the air, which is an essential part of the same act) and ignore politics’ – I was suggesting that there are places for politics, and places that are not political forums or soap boxes. The other day I followed Empty Now's link to the Algerian kidnapping / murder and read it with interest - that was an informative LINK, not a post in the body of the forum, and that's a useful thing.

When I was watching the lowbrow glossy TV super-soap “Footballers Wives” last night, no one came in at the advertising breaks and changed the topic to politics. I watched it for an hour. It stopped. The news came on. We watched it, we watched the Newsnight discussion afterwards, then we talked politics. Different thing. BTW, if you despise “middlebrow” topics, you must count yourself as “highbrow”. What led you to this elitist personal view? Doesn’t sound very egalitarian to me. If you are so “highbrow”, how cum you karnt spell?


Entered at Thu Feb 13 11:42:47 CET 2003 from (203.197.126.107)

Posted by:

Yazooman

Sorry Jan.......for taking up space. Hope ya don't mind.

yazooman attherateof rediffmail dotcom


Entered at Thu Feb 13 11:40:15 CET 2003 from (203.197.126.107)

Posted by:

Yazooman

Web: My link

Check the homepage of the website and have a look at the "cute" photo of a baby.

I am sure many of you have kids, take a look and try to think if only that was your kid. And for you information, there are thousands of people in Bhopal who looked like this.

I hope all of you read the facts from the previous link. That could be your good deed of the day.

And now we can all go back to the music and bask in our cozy self-imposed cocoon of ignorance.



Entered at Thu Feb 13 11:32:17 CET 2003 from (203.197.126.107)

Posted by:

Yazooman

Web: My link

Subject: War and Tragedy

Sometimes words are just not enough. Please check the above link and see why. Just to rock the faint recollection of something that happened some 20 yrs back.

I know this is not the right forum for this, but after all the important discussions about "war" that we are having here, I could not help but put this up.

I have respect for America as a country. But if it really was that serious, then Union Carbide would not have gotten away with it. I WONDER what the reaction would have been if this accident had happened in the US ?

Interestingly the US still refuses to extradite Anderson, the then Union Carbide CEO.

with no regards to the US gov't,

Supratik Chaudhuri


Entered at Thu Feb 13 10:35:58 CET 2003 from ipc3796024.dial.wxs.nl (195.121.96.36)

Posted by:

Jacqueline

Location: Holland
Web: My link

Subject: Garth in concert in Geldermalsen ( Holland )

I've just heard that the concert in Venice is cancelled. Garth is playing on saturday the 15th in the Netherlands location. Nashville Boulevard in Geldermalsen. If you want to make that trip you're welcome there! Further info at www.nashvilleboulevard.com


Entered at Thu Feb 13 08:38:22 CET 2003 from spider-tj013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.213.178)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois (I hope it's still here in a month)

Subject: Fred, Venice and the Levonistas minus one

Fred: Thanks for your thoughts on Venezia, but I think I’ll go anyway. By the looks of things here, both on the GB and in the USA, bad weather makes Venice look pretty good right now. I got it! I’ll convince Garth and Maud to become expatriates. They will write TNTDODD Opera as we sail around the world in a dirty gondola, eating prosciuto and wirelessly emailing reports on the opera’s progress. I will become their Butch Denner in Italy!

Speaking of Butch, I hereby resign from the Levonista army. I will not be associated with that grouping so long as Butch, a self-avowed racist, outspoken bigot, and apparent fascist, is its leading voice. To those who suck up to Butch because of his franchise with LH: grow up. To those of you who have stood up to Butch: more power to you.

I have not changed my opinion of RR’s greedy treatment of The Band. I will never forget the depravity of RR’s using Rick’s funeral pulpit to preach a selfish sermon on song writing credits. Nor have I changed my view that The Band, the quintessential R&R ensemble, whose Whole surpassed by light years the sum of its parts, collectively created The Band’s music and that the five men should have shared in their fruits like a band of brothers. This is the last I will say publicly on the matter. As Rick said in the Guitar Player magazine interview in May ‘95 (accessible from the Library on this website), “...that’s behind us now.”

However, for the sake of completeness and for the record (see what a monster you’ve created Peter Viney!) I am reproducing below the text of my letter published by Guitar Player magazine in September ‘95. It was edited for length by GP. By way of introduction I have included one of Rick’s comments from the earlier interview.

Guitar Player: "Levon also claims that Robbie took total writing credit for songs the he says you and the other guys contributed to. Is that the way you remember as it as well?"

Rick: "Yeah, there was a lot of that . A lot of those songs were Levon's stories, without a doubt. And as far as the music, yeah, it was very much a collaborative effort on those first two albums. So there was a little greed there on Robbie's part--a lot of greed, actually. But that's behind us now. It really seems like that was another time."

Now my letter:

"Unfortunately, Robbie Robertson declined the opportunity in the May '95 Guitar Player interview to respond meaningfully to serious accusations--stealing song writing credits, among others--contained in Levon Helm's book, This Wheel's On Fire, Robbie claims ‘sour grapes’ and that it all happened ‘so long ago’. I wonder if Richard Manuel's widow, who reportedly was waiting tables a few years ago, thinks the royalties Robertson has been collecting over the years are rendered meaningless by the passage of time? Robertson denies robbing the Band by claiming that Danko, Helm, Hudson, and Manuel were merely ‘in the room’ when he wrote the songs and were never around when he stayed up all night by himself writing more songs. (Apparently he did not require sleep.) ‘Not so,’ say Danko and Helm. ‘Not so,’ proclaim the arrangements, fills and improvisations of Hudson. As Barney Hoskyns points out in his extensively researched Across the Great Divide, ‘Garth was still the band member everybody turned to when there was a query about a chord or a harmony.’ Hudson has yet to speak on the matter, but can you see these five very talented men and a few friends jammed in the basement of a little pink house--with those fabulous voices and all those instruments--and four of them are doing nothing, contributing absolutely nothing, while waiting for Robertson's next musical revelation? No criticism? No arguments? No suggestions? No original thoughts? No stories? Not a single note, phrase or lyric? Give us a break. Crazy Chester was a loony guy who lived near Helm's hometown in Arkansas, not in Robertson's Toronto. Edward Voci, Chicago IL"

edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Thu Feb 13 08:03:41 CET 2003 from 64-80-240-21-access.surferz.net (64.80.240.21)

Posted by:

muffy

Location: Br-r-r-r-r-r-r-rsville

Subject: burn they barns! burn 'em up!

Ok, it's the weather too. Baby, it's cold out there... Bottom Line is good. Haven't been there in ages, and can't wait for that revue, either.

I thought that in a free society we need conservatives and liberals both. It's not about everyone having to agree -- it's about making sure that ALL our people have representation, and a voice where it counts. Cooperation is the key, not obliteration of the opposition. Or it was the last time I checked, anyway.

Just to be on the safe side, when I mentioned the stuff about finding The Band and/or its components for bookings or shows, I wasn't talking about being able to find them myself. The loop in question ... well, I wasn't always as you see me now. Before moving up here and being relegated to whatever this is I've been relegated to, I knew and worked closely with many of the people who are/were responsible for bookings in places like ... oh ... universities (such as Georgetown, American, George Washington, etc.), venues along the lines of Constitution Hall, The Wax Museum, The Lincoln Center and The Kennedy Center; clubs like Desperado's, The Bayou, The 9:30, The Cellar Door, and even The Bottom Line ... IOW, not just venues in D.C. and NY, but all over the country. Not just this country, for that matter -- but in Latin America and Europe and Asia ...


Entered at Thu Feb 13 07:23:34 CET 2003 from 1cust57.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.57)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Politics and the Guestbook

Interesting. People that rarely post at all clamoring for the rest of us to "get back to the music" rather than contributing something about music themselves. The GB isn't an "internet information service" it's a forum where you can participate and affect the "discussion" by doing so. I don't think there's any more agreement about "music" than about anything else. If everyone agreed it would be dreadfully boring in here (like the 'NSYNC website for example) and I wouldn't even bother to read any posts or contribute anything.

And the posts complaining about the "political posts" are even more annoying than some of the political posts themselves. Then there are the "controller" types - telling everyone what should and shouldn't be posted in the GB for fear that it might be shut down. Just be civil and don't name call and curse out fellow posters - that's all the rules that are needed.

No politics in the GB - just music? Didn't Nero fiddle while Rome burned?


Entered at Thu Feb 13 06:57:57 CET 2003 from cs242226-192.houston.rr.com (24.242.226.192)

Posted by:

Laura Holt Lorfing

Location: Houston

I agree with both JTULL and Butch in regards to their posts. My sentiments EXACTLY! That's all I'm going to say in regards to the political thread running through here. We could go on and on forever. What's the point? We all have our views on this thing and there is always going to be a disagreement. A friend of mine once said "Opinions are like assholes....everyone's got one." Let's get back to what we all agree on....the music. Hello to Donna in PA. Send me some pictures and let me know what's been going on with you. I miss ya!


Entered at Thu Feb 13 05:19:47 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

"velent your spleen, express your fears, repeat your prejudices"...gosh, how did having a viewpoint come to have such a lowly stigma?

Did Jan ever flatly say "No politics?" Seems to me in times past a certain amount was permisable. It seemed to me the repetitive insults are what set Jan off; though I could be wrong.

The problem is, my relentlessly middlebrow Vinaroo, is that "no comment" is a comment. People keeping their traps shut anywhere at a time like this is a major statement. It's not just like something where, oh, Basemanlee shows a fundemental absence of facts regaurding the "Clinton Scandels" allowing me to make him look foolish. How we view this is pretty central to who we are, so I welcome all views, in all forums. Why would any senseable person object? Not interested? Scroll back into your cacoon...


Entered at Thu Feb 13 05:15:05 CET 2003 from hvc-24-194-145-19.hvc.rr.com (24.194.145.19)

Posted by:

Lars

Location: NY, USA

Subject: A Room With No View

I guess I shouldn't be shocked that the gb has slipped back into politics. We've all got a lot of strong feelings about the idea of war. Let's face it: what's more important to the average person: 1. Why did Robbie bring in his lyrics so often on the upbeat? or 2. Why do we have to have a war? It's normal (I'd say even healthy) to fear war. So some people express their fears. I just wish, as Peter Viney suggested, that they not do it in here.

There was once a fellow who was plagued by a large yellow jackets' nest under his garage light. He was intimidated by the way they swarmed around his house soffit, supposing they spread? So he loaded his Mag -10 and got off three mighty shots, destroying the nest and killing some of the insects. Then the survivors came down on him, seeking revenge. Everybody came out a loser and his house was never the same. (Only his dermatologist came out ahead.)

I was talking to a guy from Woodstock's Colony Cafe and he said that it wasn't necessary to have a reservation for Garth and Maude's show on March 8th..."plenty of room..." I told him some people were coming a long way (Dave?) to see that show, but he kept saying "No sweat, plenty of room."(Dave, I'll bring those cds.)Ask him yourself (he says he sweeps up there every night) at (845) 679- 5342. Ask for "Lumpy" and try to avoid the subject of yellowjackets.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 04:18:07 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

It wasn't meant to be political - guess I fucked up.

"What I said was wrong, or it was taken wrong.........and now it's all this".

wipeout1960 at yahoo.com


Entered at Thu Feb 13 03:13:01 CET 2003 from 1cust228.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.228)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Barn Burners Gig

Wow!! The Barn Burners at the Bottom Line - my favorite NYC club!


Entered at Thu Feb 13 02:33:52 CET 2003 from spider-tl064.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.204)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Empty Now

Empty Now: I consider you a good friend out here, look forward to your posts, and am sorry if we had a misunderstanding. I must confess, I do not know what country you are from, except to say it has been affected by the recent problems in the world. Since it is time to get this out of here, email me at us2inva at excite.com. We can clear the air, clarify some things, and talk about some music.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 02:12:15 CET 2003 from mcha-ae036.taconic.net (205.231.29.164)

Posted by:

Lil

Richard/Sam: With all due respect (and I mean that sincerely)...please don't get into something here that may escalate between the two of you. I like you both too much to watch you get into a shouting match. Tensions are high everywhere these days. I'd like to think this place could be the one sanctuary from that. Both of you have so much more to offer than today's posts. Thanks.

Have a good night everyone.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 01:42:21 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.6)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Subject: Sam

B. Sam: We've been doing without your "simple" thoughts and feelings on the state of America in the GB for a couple of weeks now and everything has been just great. Try and wrap this thought around your skull... "America's Hunger for War" has become “the lead story” in just about every major newspaper in every major country in the last six months. Don't you know that? Are you so insolated/isolated that you don't realize you live in a country where, right now, just about anything “American” is being analyzed and probed and dissected and regarded with the utmost distrust? Sam (or Tom or whoever you are), I know you’re not responsible for the way things are but damn it, smell the coffee. I know you know better. You feared your post would "kick off something" and you were right. Go with your instincts next time, OK?

Hey, I originally posted to say let’s avoid a political debate. You may live in a country where you can say anything that crosses your mind, but this may not be the best forum to _post_ anything that crosses your mind. Get it?


Entered at Thu Feb 13 00:27:11 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Subject: BACK TO THE MUSIC

We were talking recently about Phil Spector, and Let It Be-

Here's an interesting bit from the latest Rolling Stone from Glyn Johns who worked on the album production.

R.S. = What songs leapt out at you as obvious winners? "Get Back" right?

G.J. = Well, yes. In fact, my version of "Get Back" was released fairly quickly as a single. And my version of "Let It Be" was released, before Phil Spector puked all over it. And I hope you quote me on that. If you hear "The Long And Winding Road" without all that shlock on it, it's fabulous just like it is.

This un-Spectorized "Let It Be" CD should be interesting.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 00:22:48 CET 2003 from 56k-socal-00-32.dial.qnet.com (209.221.198.47)

Posted by:

Dave the Phone Guy

Subject: Woodlark,,, come visit soon

Free room and board, and we can catch a show/do some jammin'.

Bob W. , sounds reasonable to me.


Entered at Thu Feb 13 00:17:06 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

bayou Sam

Location: ny

Shit - all I did was post a simple thought and it kicked off what I feared might happen.

Richard = where do I start with you? First off all, I did not post anything political. All I did was post some simple human thoughts and feelings. If 65% of the world (where'd you get that figure?) can't deal with simple, non-combative, honest feelings - fuck 'em. I live in a country where I can freely and honestly speak my mind. Go back and look and tell me where I was talking shit about any one people. I'm walking on thin ice? What the hell is that - a threat? I have, and will continue to refrain from going further into what I think about what is transpiring in the world because we have established that the GB is not the place for it..... I was just talking about how strange life is around here now. That's all.

I'd like to apologise to you good folks for this latest flurry of anger that I think my post kicked off. It wasn't my intention.

Thanks to those of you who responded to my post who obviously saw it in the spirit it was meant.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 23:57:33 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

M-O: funny link my other friend, back to the music, the only song we'll be authorized to listen to is BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM by John Lee Hooker


Entered at Wed Feb 12 23:56:40 CET 2003 from ip-207-198-222-24.nyc.ny.fcc.net (207.198.222.24)

Posted by:

Eddie Hodel

Location: Queens

Subject: Levon @ the bottom line (NYC)

Picked up the "Village Voice" today; saw a concert for LEVON HELM & THE BARN BURNERS on Feb. 21. Check www.bottomlinecabaret.com Having seen Levon drumming live for the last 18 years, I think that he sounds better than ever these days.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 23:51:20 CET 2003 from du-tele3-130.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.130)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: A word …

Not long ago this GB almost got closed down because of politics and personal attacks among other things. I can think of a hundred things to say about the world situation and I said half of them over dinner this evening. BUT the reason this GB has cruised along safely and successfully over the last few weeks is NO POLITICS. There must be so many places on the web to vent your spleen, express your fears, repeat your prejudices. This site is a respite from all that - we meet here regardless of our political opinions or creeds in common love of music. If you really wish to maintain this refuge from the political world, seek out those other places to discuss politics and please do it there. If they're good, tell me and I'll go there too, because there are things that need to be said right now. But not here.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 23:48:05 CET 2003 from 1cust239.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.239)

Posted by:

Mullah Omar

Location: Osama's Spare Room
Web: My link

Subject: Back to the music!

Hey, let's get back to the music! There's so little time before we take over the planet and ban it everywhere.

BTW thanks to those who have posted against Bush and in support of Iraq. Upon our Jihad victory you will be amongst the very first given the chance to convert to Islam and be spared torture and death as an Infidel. (The first 1,000,000,000 converts will receive a free prayer mat or niqab - a $7 value: click "link" to view.)

All praises to Allah!


Entered at Wed Feb 12 23:25:58 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

LDO

no long-haired yellow-bellied son of tricky dicky's

gonna mother hubbard soft-soap me

with just a pocketful of hope,

it's money for dope

money for rope


Entered at Wed Feb 12 23:22:46 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

JTull, my friend, I fear you blame me loving my country more than USA ? The lives of the 300 000 persons killed here by the same ennemy is not CHEAPER of the 9/11 victims, dont forget Israel too... I respect the reaction of Butch...those who dont agree, they didnt have the experience let them talk

Pat: I started the debate, i cant stop it (like Saddam). Finally I understood why some of us wanted the GB to be closed BECAUSE they love The Band.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 23:00:58 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Richard - Are you really saying you think Bush has less credibility than Saddam Hussein? If you think that way there's probably no way to convince you otherwise. But imagine if Bush gassed thousands of Canadians, murdered thousands of Americans and sent the troops to take over Mexico. Maybe then he would be on a par with your boy Saddam.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 22:58:45 CET 2003 from dialup-65.56.140.8.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.56.140.8)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

Go back and see who need to bring this whole thing up.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 22:53:46 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Richard

Richard, I am not getting into a high school 'battle of the bands'argument. On the Tull site I am 'BandFan'. Simple juxtaposition for the sake of it, nothing more. So who are these great, credible world leaders you do not name? Last time I checked, Bush got congressional authorization to use force, got a UN resolution approved to reintroduce inspectors, and has provided evidence of Iraqi non-compliance. Last I checked we are still not at war even though I believe it justified. Perhaps you would like to spend your days with me flying every other day, or with Bayou Sam in New York, waiting for a dirty bomb or some other nicety to come your way. Your attitude may become adjusted. I also recall, several years ago in the Balkans, that America came to the aid of Europe and parts of the former Yugoslavia militarily. I was against that. Thought the Europeans should handle things in their own backyard. How convenient our military power was then for some, and my how things do change.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 22:45:37 CET 2003 from h00b0d0c9691e.swt.edu (147.26.110.102)

Posted by:

Pehr

Subject: oh god, politics again.

Just watched "When We Were Kings". Now there was a man of peace and courage who shaped the world without all the Bullshit. When I think Muslim I remember... Muhammad Ali!- Boom bi ya!

btw. the shortest poem in english is by Ali:

Me

WE!


Entered at Wed Feb 12 22:37:45 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

butch

Location: levon-land

Subject: The Bottom Line

yes !!!!!!!!!!

it is true,,,,,,,

Levon Helm & The Barn Burners @ The Bottom Line,, 21st of feb------------ Bill Perry opening

Jimmy Vivino will be joining us on piano & guitar too,,,,

the 5th BarnBurner,,,,heheheheheheheh,,,,

come one come all,, ( mostly )


Entered at Wed Feb 12 22:34:01 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.65)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Subject: to paraphrase... all for one and one for oil...

Tull: So...you're saying that all Jethro Tull fans are the same ignorant asshole you are? Thank God Tull doesn't have that many fans.

John W: "Why should we worry about what (you claim) "65% of the world" thinks when "65% of the world" are so hypocritical, they won't believe Iraq is harboring weapons of mass destruction or aiding anti-U.S. terrorism without 100% proof, give them every benefit of the doubt, yet they are 100% convinced, without any evidence at all, that Bush is all about running the war for oil and corporate profits?"

Because Bush has the least credibility of any of the players involved.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 22:33:17 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Posted by:

Brien Sz

Subject: butch

butch: I'm hoping the butch who posted the last post isn't the same butch many of us respect. If not, then butch, you haven't learned a single lesson from your own peoples history. How can you say, gather them all together in one spot so you can wipe them out? Sounds kinda Hitlerish doesn't it?


Entered at Wed Feb 12 22:23:24 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Bill - Those names are compiled by the International Muslim Census Bureau. They say "Osama" and "Jihad" are the most popular names for boys this year. When asked about the most popular girl's names, they said "Who cares? They don't count!"


Entered at Wed Feb 12 22:09:34 CET 2003 from 1cust164.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.164)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Dylan Song Parody

Click above link. Anyone know which side Bob is on btw?

I find the apparent alliance between liberal left celebs and the ultra-right Muslims quite strange.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 21:56:07 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

jTF: Do I detect sarcasm?? JohnW: I think you'll find that the naming thing is one of those urban myths. Who do you think is out there counting the listings in all the records in all those very different predominently Muslim countries?


Entered at Wed Feb 12 21:40:05 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

Long Distance Operator

Sid Vicious was a talentless scumbag with a cool pseudonym who happened to be in the right place at the right time, IMHO.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 21:40:06 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Oil

I am so amazed to learn that the U.S. is the only country to be 'obsessed' with oil and military matters. Certainly the French and Russians don't have oil deals with Iraq. I'm sure the members of Opec have absolutely no concern with the politics of oil, nor Britain, the Dutch, or any other countries drilling in the North Sea, or Mexico, or Canada. No. Not North Korea which is resorting to nuclear blackmail, or Iraq which invaded a neighbor 12 years ago to control that supply even further. None of these countries are concerned with the obtaining, exploitation, and selling price of oil. Nah! No one else in the world uses oil as an energy source. And the ones using less of it (ahem, France) rely on dangerous nuclear reactors to generate energy. So the U.S. is the only bad apple in the world, while everyone else is pure lily white. Militarily, I don't see anybody else taking a stand on North Korea, or Iraq, or terrorism. Oh, you didn't have two jets filled with innocent people crash into your twin 110 story towers (Oh, You didn't HAVE twin towers significant enough to target, so you are the real, tower-challenged victims)so why should YOU worry about fighting terrorists in Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else...oh, I get it! You can't be depended upon to defend the U.S. There you go! We need to do it ourselves. No problem! We have and we will again, but get out of the way and cut the holier than though S*** when we have to do the dirty work all by ourselves. Because, ironically, if some day it happens to you, and I pray it doesn't, we will be the first to lend you a hand.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 21:22:27 CET 2003 from libstfstx03.library.uiuc.edu (130.126.34.238)

Posted by:

Susan

Location: Heartland USA

Subject: Politics - well, sorta

I've been lurking lately because I've been busy, and did not have much to say about recent topics, but I've gotta stick my head in here.

Please, please, don't tar all Americans with the same brush. There's quite a lot of unease about the official national stand, but it's not built to the point where people with some power feel support to take a stand. I think it's all not quite real except to those who have family and friends in the military. In the small town where my parents live people are anxious to support 'our boys' and sometimes equate criticism of the pres and his people as lack of support for 'the sacrifices of those who are protecting us'.

I personally feel powerless to control the activities of the government, and I'm afraid things will have to get worse before there's enough of a national outcry to slow things down. My sister-in-law is in the army and is shipping to Turkey on Friday. I'm making her a couple of compilation CDs calm, timeless songs. That's really all I can do at this point - personal things for individual people.

So please don't blame all of us for the fearfull agresssion of our government. At least half of us didn't vote for it.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 21:13:48 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Kalervo - Already there are "new Osamas" all over the world. Since Sept. 11, 2001, in the Muslim parts of the world, more male babies have been given that name than any other.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 20:55:41 CET 2003 from cache-hki-3.inet.fi (194.251.240.107)

Posted by:

Kalervo

Location: Finland
Web: My link

Subject: Atlantic Ocean is getting wider and wider

Oh yes Ilkka/Woodlark....US politics is getting wierder and wierder...are there any other serious influental forces in USA than military and oil industry ?...Pathetic one-eyed rhetoric is prelude to endless suffering... Soon there will be new Osamas all over the world.....

It is good to see Manuel Galban appreciated here. Watch out the new Cuban artist, Yusa. She is a really wonderful singer-songwriter...Tracy Chapman comes close.

On Saturday this week my work mates and my wife will see and hear maybe the most amazing guitarist in the world at this moment, Vicente Amigo...with his flamenco band...Yippee...


Entered at Wed Feb 12 20:54:28 CET 2003 from roc-66-66-163-230.rochester.rr.com (66.66.163.230)

Posted by:

Pepote Rouge

Location: ny

Subject: tapes

Hey I got 1500 GD tapes i'd part with...one catch I need some live Danko.I d like "wish you were here with me" on one of the shows also..Thats my wish GD for Band


Entered at Wed Feb 12 20:54:16 CET 2003 from 209-166-233-21.cust.walrus.com (209.166.233.21)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: New York City

Subject: Levon/BBs

Hey Butch, is this for real? "Levon Helm and the Barn Burners, Friday, February 21, The Bottom Line, NYC." Say it's so!


Entered at Wed Feb 12 20:32:58 CET 2003 from citrix1.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.5)

Posted by:

John Cass

Subject: tapes

hey John W.... if you don't want those tapes I'll take em!!

jcassari@doc.state.vt.us


Entered at Wed Feb 12 20:23:41 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.65)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Diversity

It is a sad fact that the same wonderful diversity that magically enhances the soundtrack of our lives can not be made to work in so many other facets. This fact certainly underscores the importance of the work musicians like Ry Cooder ( and many, many others ) are doing. The remote possibility that music may, somehow, someday, play a key role in the acceptance of cultural diversity is, at the very least, well worth the effort.

It has always fascinated me that peace, in and of itself, is such a precious and rare commodity when it could have been the easiest and least expensive of all human achievements. As a civilization we are so very far off the path it seems we have lost sight of the true worth of peace. In my heart I believe the only road back must be built heart by heart with the clear understanding that each of us is responsible for our contribution to the effort. If you walk in peace and carry that light to every corner of your life I believe there will be illumination.

I fully understand that these are broad and idealistic concepts and that they leave me or anyone who espouses them open for all sorts of criticism but, frankly, that doesn't matter a bit to me as they represent where my mind and heart are these days. It took huge doses of personal turmoil and energy draining anger to create my own realization of the truly infinite worth of peace in my own life and the effect it brings to all aspects of my world.

I don't intend to sound as if the answer is as simple as all of this. Clearly it is not. If nothing else, each of our personal efforts to walk in peace will ensure that peace has life and possibly create a life of peace for all.

Apologies for the sermonizin'. It seemed worth saying.

PEACE


Entered at Wed Feb 12 19:30:23 CET 2003 from (207.236.90.5)

Posted by:

Ian Campbell

Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Web: My link

Subject: The Hawk rocks for dinner

Rompin' Ronnie Hawkins and the Hawks will be this year's special guest entertainment at the 26th Annual Mississauga Board of Trade (MBOT) President's Dinner.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 19:25:50 CET 2003 from t6o943p99.telia.com (217.209.169.219)

Posted by:

Woodlark

Location: Nordic Countries

Subject: Americana

1) It is refreshing to read EMPTY NOW's posts in gb.
2) It is refreshing to hear the Frenchmen say "no, no monsieur" not only for me but even for your Mr. President.
3) It is refreshing to read so many informative messages on the music in gb lately (unfortunately, this not one of those).
What is not refreshing is this: after October 2004 I (and millions of other people) cannot visit the USA with my current passport. Of course, the terrorists will find a way to visit the US anyway but Woodlark cannot visit "The Dave The Phone Guy Country" (High Sierras, that is) anymore. AMERICANS, HAVE YOU LOST ALL THE SENSE?????


Entered at Wed Feb 12 19:12:06 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: Papa Loves Mambo

The world indeed lost another great musician with the passing of Mongo Santamaria. America is a melting pot of cultures, each having its own unique form of music. In music, thankfully, diversity has proven to be a positive influence, as these different forms from around the world are assimilated & embraced. Perhaps it can be said that rhythm & melody are the universal language. When Latin & African rhythms merged in jazz something magical happened. Every time I hear a song like Mongo Santamaria's "Afro Blue", I'm amazed. Music that can make you smile & sway under its spell is a special thing, almost spiritual in nature.

In addition to Tito Puente, another great Cuban bandleader was Perez Prado. On their "Mambo Sinuendo" album, Ry Cooder & Manuel Galban perform a cover of Prado's "Patricia". This song evokes a provocative, yet playful, sensuality; a mood that was perfectly conveyed when the song was used in Fellini's "La Dolce Vita". "Patricia" has since become soundtrack staple in film & television -- most recently as the theme of HBO's "Real Sex" series. Papa loves mambo. Mama loves mambo. Get out the V-chip, so the kids can't mambo.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 19:11:07 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

OKAY - Back to the music. A friend of mine who is really into CD/DVD is getting rid of all his tapes. He has offered to give me TWO HUNDRED Grateful Dead shows on cassette tapes! I am debating whether I have room to keep them all and whether I will ever actually listen to all of them. I have not made up my mind whether to take them but can you imagine someone giving away that many shows!!!


Entered at Wed Feb 12 19:10:45 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

butch

ooooh if only the palestinians had their own state. wouldn't that solve some problems? so writes emmanuel,, & i say ,, oh yeah,, makes it easier to find em all & wipe em out,,,,, another POV heard from,,,,,,


Entered at Wed Feb 12 18:50:51 CET 2003 from (212.31.242.98)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: STOOOOOOOP!!!!!!!

You all are right: Richard, John W, Bill, Emannuel, Crabgrass,……. The fault is mine, I started, i should emailed my first post to JTULL

Back to music. Forget the Mrtyes monks of Tibhirine. The situation is drastically more serious, the concert of Garth in Venice is cancelled

The folks listed above, Remain in the Music always, the solution for the other problem is DYLAN (see the link) don’t believe anyone else


Entered at Wed Feb 12 18:48:29 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Bill - Of course you are right. I don't disagree. Everyone has totally the right to their opinion. I just think a lot of people are making a direct transfer from Vietnam era anti-war sentiment to today, and it's not the same thing. In the '60's I disagreed with the right wingers who called the anti-war protesters "anti-American." They thought the war was unjust, and that it was in the U.S. best interest not to be in that war. That did not make them "anti-American." Today however I think the term applies a lot more. I think a lot of the anti-war protesters today really do see the U.S. as an evil, malignant, corrupted entity, which the world would be better off without. So I do think the phrase anti-American applies more to today's protesters than back in the '60's.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 18:34:32 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

John W: First, please note that Osama is more critical of socialism than capitalism. As for anti-war protesting, how does that get to be a traitorous activity when there's not even a war going on? Surely being able to state your opinion in public, en masse if desired, is at the core of democracy (which all of us here value).


Entered at Wed Feb 12 18:30:52 CET 2003 from node14654.a2000.nl (24.132.70.84)

Posted by:

emanuel

Location: amsterdam

I dare to say that not even the people who blow themselves up really always know why they're comitting such horrific acts. apart from the fact that their live sucks and they feel the israelis (the west)are to blame. being a marterer (if that is the correct spelling) means a whole lot more in their society then in does in our western culture. same story with the promise of a better afterlive. the real people to blame for the suicide attacks are the ones that recrute young kids who want to make a difference by sacrificing themselves for their family (who often get financial support from the terrorist organisations)and their people. I feel just as sorry for those kids being raised in an enviroment of hate where you learn to think that death(afterlife) is worth more then living.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 18:23:59 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.222)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Subject: Tull: Nevermind


Entered at Wed Feb 12 18:08:47 CET 2003 from 1cust154.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.154)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Imagine...

If only there were no religions - wouldn't THAT solve some problems?


Entered at Wed Feb 12 18:07:08 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Emanuel:

The Palestinians don't need a state. Neither do the Israeli's. In an ideal world there should be one nation there called, whatever, call it Sinailand. It would be secular, free, democratic, and respectful of all citizens to the point that BOTH Israelis and Palestinians could live side by side, practicing their religions and going about there business and prospering together. The whole notion of the tribal, race-based state is among the root causes of the problem.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 18:01:52 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Emanuel - Sure they should have their own state. But would it be so much to ask them to refrain from terrorism for a while to show a commitment to living peacefully among their neighbors? I'm not saying they don't have legitimate grievances. They do. But if my neighbor destroys my property and injures my family, it still does not justify me taking the law into my own hands and taking revenge on my neighbor -- I have to take my grievance through the proper channels or else I will be the one locked up for vigilantism. These peoples who feel "oppressed" may have legitimate beefs but they are only hurting their own cause by blowing up citizens. Take it to the U.N., the "court of worldwide public opinion," even fight the "oppressor's" army. But don't go blowing up innocent citizens who don't even know anything about politics!


Entered at Wed Feb 12 17:59:08 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.222)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Subject: Tull

All I'm saying Tull, is that this Guest Book has been humming along sweetly, without any mention of "terrorist-minded" persons or anyone else of an off-U.S. colour for weeks now. In this forum and in these times, YES, your post was a "political".

I truly believe that your original comments were justified, but for Christ’s sake, shut the fuck up about it. OK?

BTW I liked the part about St Catharines being on a "high horse".


Entered at Wed Feb 12 17:29:18 CET 2003 from node14654.a2000.nl (24.132.70.84)

Posted by:

emanuel

Location: amsterdam

Subject: solution

ooooh if only the palestinians had their own state. wouldn't that solve some problems?


Entered at Wed Feb 12 17:24:18 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Bumbles - That would be, not necessarily American, but those who share the values of democracy, personal freedom, secularism, capitalism, and liberty. Sometimes referred to as "Western values." In other words, the infidels Bin Ladin would like to see erased from this world. Not the religious fundamentalists who want to impose their beliefs on you or see you dead. Not the Western anti war protesters who should be ashamed for their traitorous attitides.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 17:18:24 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Richard, Political?

Richard, I along with 100's of millions around the globe resent having to live in fear of terrorists and there murderous actions and you call me POLITICAL?!?! Reread my post, please. I singled out 'terrorist-minded' persons, rather than nationalities, religions, etc. This is political? So, has the mush-mindedness of the moral relativists dropped to such a low, pathetic level now that to condemn terrorism is in itself a bigoted position? To quote Steve Martin, 'Well, EXCUSE MEEEEE!' And while you are on your high St. Catharines horse quoting the exact percentage breakdown of anti-American sentiment out there, you may take off your rose-colored glasses and realize that ALL countries are acting unilateraly in their own interests even as they pretend to be doing otherwise.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 17:02:31 CET 2003 from pool-141-153-194-74.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.194.74)

Posted by:

Bumbles

Location: New Jersey U.S.A.

Subject: What, We Worry?

JOHN W.: Who is ‘we,’ as in “Why should we worry…”? Band fans? American citizens? Non-Muslims? You seem to be speaking for a constituency, and I’m curious who they are.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 16:34:09 CET 2003 from on-tor-blr-a58-03-245.look.ca (216.154.11.245)

Posted by:

Wittgenstein

Location: Near demolished Varsity Stadium Toronto, where I saw The Band in 1969

I suppose that we can grant Lauren some slack as to her dyslexic spelling and awful grammar. Her message was obviously written in haste and with palpable anxiety. However, there has been a noticeable descent in the writing standards here lately in general. I'm not sure if this is an indication of post 9/11 stress, or just a lack of concern for the reading pleasures of your audience. 'Errand' is spelled with two r's, not one. Empty Now, I know that English is not your first language, but at least spell your own monicker correctly! And Biffalo Bull, that last post was appalling and nearly unreadable! This message does not apply to Brown-Eyed Girl or Peter Viney or Serge, who are literate and post well-composed entries. Serge, especially, should be commended for his succinctness and brevity at all times. Well, enough of that. I'm not a scold. I do wonder why Lauren's post has not prompted any concern or interest from this august panel. Oh well. I see too that there was nary a mention here of the recent passing of Mongo Santamaria. Mongo who, you say. Well, if you are all that hot on Ry's recent forays into Cuban music you might like to hear the man who along with Puentes, brought the Mambo sounds to jazz in the fifties.

Lately I find myself recalling and playing an old Phil Ochs / Bob Gibson song from the sixties, 'One More Parade'.

"So young so strong so ready for the war / All willing to go and die upon a foreign shore / All march together, everybody looks the same / So there is no one you can blame.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 16:32:37 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

Posted by:

John W.

Location: NYC

Richard - Why should we worry about what (you claim) "65% of the world" thinks when "65% of the world" are so hypocritical, they won't believe Iraq is harboring weapons of mass destruction or aiding anti-U.S. terrorism without 100% proof, give them every benefit of the doubt, yet they are 100% convinced, without any evidence at all, that Bush is all about running the war for oil and corporate profits? I know there are going to be some big anti-war demonstrations on Saturday, but how many protests will you see in any Muslim nations protesting against anti-U.S. terrorism? Not one, I bet.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 16:13:50 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: JTull/B.Sam/Muffy: and Richard

Sorry, I didnt see any political post, I only saw posts bearing legitime human feelings. (wrong way ?)

I demand to all the regular posters to pray in their memory (the link) hopping that this actions will never happen again


Entered at Wed Feb 12 15:14:44 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.134)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Subject: Politics

JTull/B.Sam/Muffy: You are treading on seriously thin ice if you think the rest of the country/world will sit back and listen to your political posts (however innocent they may seem to you) without comment. Don't forget that any pro-US sentiments are likely to rub at least 65% of the world the wrong way.

It's your choice if you want to start something but... Fair Warning.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 15:03:51 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6ea3120-cm014260040104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (65.48.85.247)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: greatfull dead

line fom a stand up comic about the greatfull dead, "after the pot wears out, they sound pretty shitty"


Entered at Wed Feb 12 14:41:48 CET 2003 from f201072.upc-f.chello.nl (80.56.201.72)

Posted by:

jacqueline

Location: The Netherlands

Garth is in Holland to do the show with Burrito Deluxe


Entered at Wed Feb 12 14:39:44 CET 2003 from f201072.upc-f.chello.nl (80.56.201.72)

Posted by:

Jacqueline

I've just heard that the concert in Venice is cancelled. Garth is playing on saturday the 15th in the Netherlands location. Nashville Boulevard in Geldermalsen. If you want to make that trip you're welkom there! Further info at www.nashvilleboulevard.com


Entered at Wed Feb 12 14:21:04 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Empty Now/Sam/Fred

Empty Now: Thanks for your thoughts. Fred: I've been listening to the Galban/Cooder album nonstop since sunday. On lists, how about the 100 top songs that RUINED the world? That would be fun. Sam: Let me know if Charles Rosenay!!! (exclamation points legally included)is at or running the Beatles fest in NJ. He used to run them in CT and became quite internationally known in the process and actually got John Lennon's sister, Pete Best, and Denny Lane to show up at varying times.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 13:50:35 CET 2003 from zorg188.revealed.net (208.243.237.188)

Posted by:

Mike D.

Subject: The Other Ones

Crabby,

Don't be so sure about The Dead and the surviving members They have a show at Alpine Valley (in Wisconsin) planned and it's already sold out! Alpine Valley is less than 3 hours from where I live. That was also where Stevie Ray Vaughn played his last show. I had the opportunity to go and passed on a ticket. I'm still kicking myself for that one.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 11:48:50 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empy Now

Web: My link

Subject: JTull fan - Bayou Sam

Jtull Fan, Bayou Sam: I understand your concern. One of your friends here in the GB lived this fear during years, 24 hours a day, he is still alive and posts daily. Watch who are below you, perhaps you will feel better. America (the locomotive of the planet) thought until 9/11 that the islamist terror in Algeria is a local problem. It is a planetar phenomenon. We were terribly isolated, and if Algeria was looked at closer (and songs of Dylan listenned to), humanity would win 12 years.

Sadly, the world forgot rapidly the Martyrs of Tibhirine (see the link) and worst, some not even heard about them.

For more on the subject, you can read the wonderful book of John W. Keiser “The monks of Tibhirine – Faith, Love and Terror in Algeria”, St Martins Press.

Please for the memory and peace of soul of Brother Christian, No Religious hatred. This post is just for comforting my friends Jtull fan, Sam, ...

Courage is a body virtue

Sorry Jan, sooner or later, this post was programmed


Entered at Wed Feb 12 09:41:37 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Ed Voci: It's okay...about your trip to Venice ruined...the weather's been horrible in that part of Italia lately, and that means it makes venice a horrible place to get around. The best thing to do is download a nice picture of Venice from the internet, put on some Band music (or the Garth solo CD) crack open a nice bottle of wine (red or white, the choice is yours) and enjoy. You'll save a lot of money that way too! However THE place Garth should perform is the Arena of Verona...acoustically perfect. In fact every summer outdoor operas are held there. Dylan played there back in the '80s. I was there but I didn't go see the concert...cash flow problems at the time...NO cash flowing my way. Speaking of My Way Sinatra held a concert there too Again I didn't go..tickets were way too expensive!


Entered at Wed Feb 12 09:38:56 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

Sam..right on..I aint livin life any different than I ever have, hell I read in the paper today as part of the is it orange alert, hell I'm color blind anyhow, they advise ya to have water and food for at least three days, hell most of the time I don't even have a three day supply of ass wipe in my house let alone materials to ward off a chemical attack, oh well if I'm gonna get it I guess I would rather it be quick...


Entered at Wed Feb 12 09:00:42 CET 2003 from spider-tk011.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.176)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois (with trip to Venice ruined)

Subject: Garth NOT in Venice; Burritos in 1972

Damn! I came this close to booking a flight to Venice today. I knew Garth "nella Venezia" was too good to be true. I was in Venice this summer and heard the Vivaldi Quartet play in a small 800 year-old church. Absolutely glorious. The Jackson Pollock exhibit along with other New York artists of his period ("Irracibili di New York") were in Venice, too. I saw the 1972 Flying Burrito Bros. in Ft. Collins Colorado at the National Student Assocication convention. They blew me away. A Native American group, Rebone, also played. Also present as a honcho in Vietnam Veterans Against the War: John Kerry.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 06:15:40 CET 2003 from 64-80-53-229-static.surferz.net (64.80.53.229)

Posted by:

muffy

Location: THE bearsville

Subject: strange days indeed

Sam, I hear you. Whatever the right answers are, I think it's highly advisable the we (as a people) make ALL the right choices and ALL the right moves. It's not about being afraid in my case, either. It is, however, a question of wanting a lot less weird, a lot less bad, and a whole lot more good and right and easy. We make the wrong moves now, and it's looking more and more like there'll be hell to pay -- quite literally. There are some decidedly nasty people out there. I'd hate to see them have any more power over our lives than they do already.

Did I mention that I really, really don't like glowing in the dark?


Entered at Wed Feb 12 06:09:40 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Bumbles

Location: New Jersey U.S.A.

Subject: Band, Burritos Released

One other Band-Flying Burrito Bros. connection is through “I Shall Be Released,” which the Gram Parsons edition kind of covered, their version being a bootleg-ready fragment not much more than a minute long that has nonetheless managed to achieve legitimate release on a couple of CD-era compilations.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 05:34:00 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

I purchased the Ry Cooder/Manuel Galban CD yesterday and I must say it is rather good. I wonder what a recording of Garth and a bunch of Cuban musicians would sound like?

too bad Garth won't be going to Venice, however this is the wrong time of year to go Venice anyway!

I picked up a copy of Q magazine's 100 songs that changed the world, and while I agree with some (Like A Rolling Stone, I Want To Hold Your Hand, My Generation, That's All Right, to name a few) I don't understand why (or how) Milli Vanilli's "Girl You know it's True" or Spice Girls "Wannabe" or Richard Harris' rendition of "MacArthur Park"...changed the world. Maybe it's just me...

I guess I'll listen to Mambo Sinuendo again


Entered at Wed Feb 12 05:22:08 CET 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Posted by:

Tiny Monster

Location: Out-There
Web: My link

Subject: The Grateful Dead

I just happened to be listening to The Grateful Dead from Giants Stadium circa 1991 when I happened on this ... It was a great concert ... It will never happen again ... Just as The Band will never happen again ... no matter what you call it ... it's still not Skull and Roses ...

The Other Ones make some great sounds ...



Entered at Wed Feb 12 04:56:56 CET 2003 from 1cust104.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.104)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: The Dead

Jeez, what a bummer!!

I thought "The Other Ones" was a really terrific name! A big mistake - I bet they won't get as many bookings as The Dead.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 04:45:46 CET 2003 from hvc-24-169-149-224.hvc.rr.com (24.169.149.224)

Posted by:

TBear

Location: Cold,Freezing, Snowy and DAMN Cold Woodstock
Web: My link

Subject: The Dead

Hi... I guess "The Other Ones" are now dead. No, really!!! You can now call them "THE DEAD".. see the link for the pseudo revival of the Grateful Dead name... feelings? TBear


Entered at Wed Feb 12 04:42:51 CET 2003 from spider-tm081.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.81)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

Ahhhh shucks, I was rooting for the beards to see the bearded one... loved e's excitement... now the poor bastard has to listen to the blues until 2/25 when he can get his Burrito Deluxe... I recommend Charlie Patton, I've taken a real liking to the CD I picked up... anyway, emanualle don't do anything drastic like cut your beard off... I'm still pulling for ya... maybe they could just put Garth on one of those gondolas and boatman him around in the moonlight... feed the birds baby... gotta go, just put the kids down after running erands in subzero temps... we warmed ourselves to the tunes of Levon & the Crowmatix tonight... take care all... I pre-ordered my burrito deluxe and all is well on this cold cold night...


Entered at Wed Feb 12 04:05:05 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

JTull = I hear ya. I'm not going to "not" do something because of the fear. it's just weird. It's the way it is now. That's why we need to show these people that we mean buisness - and by saying that I don't want to kick off a war/anti-war thing in here PLEASE........also Tull - I visited Aruba a few years ago. I don't know if it's your first visit, but it's a beautiful place, Enjoy.

I think that that one design for the new WTC is terrible because it looks to me like there's a plane suspended between the two, which is in very bad taste. I also think it should be a functional building(s) with a memorial of some kind to what happened.

Hey, if any NYC area folks are planning to attend the Beatlefest in NJ next month, let me know.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 03:38:55 CET 2003 from h-68-164-69-134.lsanca54.covad.net (68.164.69.134)

Posted by:

Steve

Location: Santa Barbara
Web: My link

Thanks for the site - I loved the work here. Peace - Steve


Entered at Wed Feb 12 03:02:44 CET 2003 from dialup089-b.ts551.cwt.esat.net (193.203.141.89)

Posted by:

Hank

Location: Cork
Web: My link

Subject: Feel The Freeze

How would folks here react to a rave/dance/sampling jobbie on "Chest Fever"?

I remember reading here once that someone.....

who posts here....

is a Taxi-driver.....

and he/she would blast it up in his cab for the tripping clubbers in the cab on a Saturday nite.........

I'm fully aware, folks, that I may be flamed at the stake for such potential heresy.........

But That's Alright, Mama.........

Tell Me.....

What's Wrong Wit ch'You?......

This TIIIIIIIME!


Entered at Wed Feb 12 02:50:22 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-tj022.proxy.aol.com (64.12.106.27)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Bayou Sam

B. Sam: Go into the city, go to the 86th floor of the Empire State Building (too bad they closed the 102nd) and thumb your nose at fear. I'll be there a week in June and am taking my wife too. In the meantime, I'm flying to CA twice, Vegas once, throughout the midwest, down to Aruba on vacation, and a few other dates to be added. Scared, sometimes. Angrier about needing to be scared; all the time. I've had it, I'm living my life and terrorist-minded people can kiss my ass, and if it's my flight that is going down, I just hope I have a live head to slam my laptop over than some cowardly suitcase bomb or shoulder-fired missile. I am also totally put-off by the WTC designs; an empty trellis? Ugh! A vegetable garden in the sky? Please! This is New York! What is so difficult about the concept of two twin 110 story rectangles? I'll be the first in line to work at the souvenir stand on the roof.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 02:41:44 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Hazel = by whining about people "bitching", aren't you in fact bitching yourself?


Entered at Wed Feb 12 02:41:15 CET 2003 from ns.hpedsb.on.ca (209.226.83.2)

Posted by:

Clay

Location: Canada

Subject: Guitar Players

Anyone here know the chords for "Don't Wait" from "Jubilation". Thanks in advance.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 02:00:10 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

hazel

Location: CT

you people on the message board bitch just a little too much. i love the band, their music means more than anything to me. thanks for everything. all i have left to say is, rock on.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 01:27:45 CET 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp190572.sympatico.ca (64.229.3.223)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Birthdays!

Former Hawk.....from Buffaloooooo, New York.....Stan Szelest....Born February 11, 1942.....

For John Till, the pounding energy of The Hawks stuck in his mind. "They had moved a grand piano on to this makeshift plywood stage. Ronnie was still athletic. He hadn't got too heavy at that point. It was mesmermizing. Robbie was down on his knees and Ronnie was fanning his guitar. Rebel had these finger picks on playing his electric bass. Levon was pretty flashy and was smashing all the cymbals and twirling his sticks, but the one who really stood out was STAN. He just kept bouncing up and down. He was the most incredible musician to watch even back then. He had this Jerry Lee Lewis, curly, blond long hair. His collar was up and he was kicking the piano at the same time as playing it. It was mesmermizing."

Hope you had a great Birthday today Norbert.....but now it's the next day for you.....So have yourself a great Birthday week!..:-D


Entered at Wed Feb 12 01:14:30 CET 2003 from (62.98.83.233)

Posted by:

Emanuele " The Beard"

Location: Venice, Italy
Web: My link

Subject: Very Very Sad !!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I'm Very ,Very ,Very Sad!! Because the concert of Burrito Deluxe with Garth is cancelled!! Please give me a concert with Garth , now i don't have the possibility of travel in America o in Europe for see Garth concert, is a my dream see Garth play in Venice. Please Ian help me. Another dream vanish.... :-((


Entered at Wed Feb 12 00:29:23 CET 2003 from du-tele3-252.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.252)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: My Way … Buritto de Luxe

Sid Vicious- possibly the only moment in his entire untalented and worthless career worth watching at least once is his performance of My Way. The song is a bit of an albatross- it reminds me of funerals (I’ve heard it played twice now, once sung on tape by the deceased, a very close friend indeed who used to sing it a lot, which was very moving).

Well, if only I could grab the time to go to Paris to see Garth! I was sorely tempted today, but I’m a mile behind in work. Sneeky Pete was in the Burittos when I saw them – one of the three or four best concerts I’ve ever seen, but it was more than 30 years ago and no doubt the presence then of Chris Hillman and Rick Roberts contributed. The Band connection is that they both covered “Ain’t that a lot of Love” and though neither was as good as Homer Banks’ original, I rate the Burrittos version as better than The Band’s.


Entered at Wed Feb 12 00:12:00 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou sam

Location: ny

That live version of Elvis doing "My Way" is something I haven't heard in awhile. The way he delivers the ending of that song is fantastic. When I think of Sid Vicious I can't help but be confounded by why there are so many talented musicians in the world that can't catch a break, but this guy somehow attained 15 minutes of fame.

Life is getting weird in the New York City area these days. We keep seeing stories in the papers about how they have narrowed the ideas for the new World Trade Center down to two - but now they've beefed up security again and they're telling people how to deal with a biological attack. I have to go work in the city tomorrow......

Nobody told me there'd be days like these....strange days indeed.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 21:28:06 CET 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Posted by:

Bones

Congrats to Band fans U2 and Martin Scorsese for their Oscar nominations today. I was surprised and delighted to see that Gangs Of New York received 10 nominations (second only to Chicago).


Entered at Tue Feb 11 21:24:10 CET 2003 from pool-141-153-194-74.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.194.74)

Posted by:

Bumbles

Location: New Jersey U.S.A.

Subject: 'My Way' His Way

What about Sid Vicious?


Entered at Tue Feb 11 21:18:31 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Web: My link

Subject: Bass Tabs

Trulhs_Rok see above web page link.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 21:11:44 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

That's an interesting link, from the What's New page, to the Burrito Deluxe site. I especially like how they describe Garth's talents - as protean. Now THERE'S a word for the resume. And Tommy Spurlock, who "also worked with old friends Garth Hudson and Rick Danko, helping them to revive The Band with their 1993 release 'Jericho'." Pete Kleinow's other life in animation is a revelation, though I kinda wish he'd said something about his Seattle Beatlish group of the mid-'60s, Sir Raleigh and the Coupons - Sir Raleigh being Canuck ex-pat Dewey Martin, later of Buffalo Springfield.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 21:07:38 CET 2003 from cache-ink1-bas-hsi.cableinet.co.uk (62.31.224.2)

Posted by:

Trulhs_Rok

Location: ENGLAND

Subject: BASS TABS

I've been searching the net for bass tabs and can only seem to find guitar chords. Is there a reason for this? Can anybody point me in the right direction as to how to go about obtaining bass tabs? It would be much appreciated.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 20:41:37 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Empty Now: You are partially correct. For songwriting & publishing registration purposes (BMI), Paul Anka is credited as co-author, for his English translation, along with the other writers Francois Claude, Renaud Jacques Abel Jules & Thibaut Gilles. I seem to recall that Mr. Anka is from Ottawa.

ROCK 'N ROLL TIMELINE: Forty years ago today, on Feb. 11, 1963, the Beatles recorded eleven songs that would appear on their first album. The U.K. LP, entitled "Please Please Me", also included 3 previously recorded songs and was released on March 22, 1963. It is interesting to note that Billboard's #1 song on this day in 1963 was Paul & Paula's "Hey Paula". Rock 'n Roll would soon change forever.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 20:03:45 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.205)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: emanuel

Check the "Concerts" link on this site. The date is February 15. You best get hopping !!


Entered at Tue Feb 11 19:59:38 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

Empty Now: Don't forget the Gypsy Kings, who worked from the Francois version, presumably.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 19:52:06 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Subject: Bill - David Powell - Bob Wigo - "My Way"

"My Way" original song is written and performed by French singer Claude Francois "Comme d'habitude". It's one of the most translated-adapted songs in the world (Sinatra, Anka, Elvis, Tom Jones...) . Thank You.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 19:51:06 CET 2003 from node14654.a2000.nl (24.132.70.84)

Posted by:

emanuel

Location: amsterdam
Web: My link

Subject: two emanuels

not that it makes any difference, just wanted to let you know that the emanuel who asked about rick is a different one from the one thats gonna check out the concert in venice. I would like to know though, when garth is gonna play in amsterdam. does anybody know? thank you by the way for your comments on my question concerning ricks death. If I made anybody sad by asking about it: I appologies. stay well and untill later


Entered at Tue Feb 11 18:30:58 CET 2003 from 56k-socal-07-34.dial.qnet.com (209.221.196.49)

Posted by:

Dave tpg

Subject: Emanuele's reaction

I remember the first time I was to see The Band I had the same reaction as Emanuele.Oh! What joy!

Enjoy your show Emanuele, and send us a review.

Meadowlark, I hope you had Meadowlark's dog on a leash during the car races.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 17:55:03 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.205)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: David Powell

HEYOOOOOOO.......You are correct sir!!


Entered at Tue Feb 11 17:53:58 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.205)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: David Powell

HE-YOOOOOOO.......You are correct sir!!


Entered at Tue Feb 11 17:25:17 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: Video - Gods and Generals - 3


Entered at Tue Feb 11 17:20:11 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: Video - Gods and Generals - 2


Entered at Tue Feb 11 17:14:03 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Bill mentioned the songwriting of Paul Anka. Let me add that Elvis also had a great deal of success with Mr. Anka's "My Way". Perhaps the most profitable song Paul Anka ever wrote was used as the theme for Johnny Carson's Tonight Show. Using a melody borrowed from one of his earlier songs, the theme music debuted in 1962. According to Mr. Anka, he earned $200 in royalties each time the show aired -- you do the math.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 16:40:22 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: Charlie Young - Gods and Generals

Thanks Charlie, "Jokerman"...Perhaps "Cross the green mountain"

Video "Gotta serve somebody", check the link


Entered at Tue Feb 11 14:24:20 CET 2003 from mcha-ag038.taconic.net (205.231.148.229)

Posted by:

Lil

Subject: Garth in Europe

Ed: Yes, Garth is indeed performing in Venice..and Zurich..and Paris.. and Amsterdam. See Jan's "what's new" from yesterday.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 14:18:06 CET 2003 from spider-tj034.proxy.aol.com (152.163.213.189)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois (got rivers, but no gondolas although Daley tried it once)

Subject: Garth In Venice, Bones, BEG

Is Garth in Venice for real? I gotta know, please help on this somebody.

Bones: Ok, ok, I'll dig into the New Yorker archives and pull out the article on Sinatra that has the reference to the guy who signed him and The Band.

BEG:I would like to continue the discussion with you about The Feud, but off the GB so as not to bore others who have been through it before.

edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Tue Feb 11 05:14:45 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3613163.sympatico.ca (65.93.195.22)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Van and Band like....

Bill and Peter: I also have Collis' book on Van....."Brand New Day" was always the song that moved me the most on the recording "Caravan".....Van may have the reputation of being grumpy.....but when it comes to his songwriting.....He is no stranger to writing naked.....

In Brian Hinton's book on Van....."Van counts one, two, three, four, and we're back in safer territory, a Band-like good time groove to "And It Stoned Me" - the Robbie Robertson style lead break, mathematically perfect, is set against chorded piano, just like the Woodstock backswoodsmen - with segues into "These Dreams Of You", with wild saxophone.....

In relation to Van and Richard singing "Four Per Cent Pantomine"....Robbie recalls that he watched amazed as the two singers - both masters of their own melancholy - inhabited a plateau of pure inspiration....."They were acting this whole thing out. For a second, it became soundless - all hands and veins and necks. It was almost like the music was carrying itself"......

Bill again: I've been reading a book on The Hawk.....and guess what? It was Eugene "Jay" Smith who ran into Ronnie and Wanda and just happened to witness their marriage.....Ronnie apparently denied it and pointed to his best man instead.....Levon......'cause they wanted to keep the marriage a secret but....next thing ya know.....Their marriage was announced over CHUM Radio......BTW Bill.....When Eugene later ended up singing with The Hawks....He didn't have dreads then......did he?.....;-D


Entered at Tue Feb 11 05:03:29 CET 2003 from (68.169.14.90)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny

Subject: Garth in Venice & Dylan Music Videos

I can't imagine a more perect place to experience Garth Hudson exhibiting his keyboard genius than in the classic city of Venice, Italy. I wish I could be there for that one, and to hear his upcoming stateside talk on his work with Bob Dylan.

I watched the Dylan music video for his song from the new movie "Gods and Generals" this evening and it is pretty bizarre. Dylan appears in period costume, wearing a short beard and stringy, long hair in the video, walking and riding horseback through a horrible battle scene. He appears to be acting the role of a doctor of the time, apparently pronouncing one man dead at the scene of the battle as a chaplain reads from a Bible. Then we see Dylan placing a Matthew Brady-style photo of the dead man beside a tombstone. I'm not sure what it all means, but I don't recall many Dylan music videos as working all that well. I only remember a couple that were really well done: one fast-paced one was mostly flashing shots of classic paintings (I think that the song was "Jokerman" but I'm not sure) and the other was an animated video created by a Czech-born artist friend of mine named Peter Sis. That one was for the song "Gotta Serve Somebody," and in that case the animation was a much great work of art than the song...


Entered at Tue Feb 11 03:51:27 CET 2003 from as3-2-169.hip.berkeley.edu (136.152.195.27)

Posted by:

Dave Hopkins

Location: Berkeley, CA

Subject: more Van-Band inspiration

the chord progression to "Tupelo Honey" is the same as that for the verses in "The Weight"...hard to believe that's purely coincidental.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 00:53:59 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

I wonder why Clapton wasn't part of that Radio City blues show. It seems like he'd have been a natural participant.


Entered at Tue Feb 11 00:11:10 CET 2003 from du-tele3-140.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.140)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Buddy

Thanks for the Van note, Bill. You know on Buddy- as I always say, it is of course pure coincidence that The Rolling Stones third single was "Not Fade Away" which is not of course the reason The Hawks were covering it in the very same year:-}

Other Buddy links are Raining in My Heart on the All-Starr Band tour. Holly's own version of Slippin & Slidin (overdubbed with the Fireballs) remains my favourite of the three versions, but The Band were certainly following the Little Richard version.


Entered at Mon Feb 10 23:43:35 CET 2003 from (62.98.117.203)

Posted by:

Emanuele "The beards"

Location: Venice , Italy
Web: My link

Subject: GARTH HUDSON IN ITALY !!!

I DON'T BELIEVE !!! FINALLY I CAN SEE MY MITH GARTH HUDSON PLAY IN VENICE, ITALY !! I CRY FOR THE JOY!THANKS !!!! I 'M VERY VERY HAPPY!! I hope make a photo with Garth . Bye , Emanuele


Entered at Mon Feb 10 22:40:47 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

Hank mentioned St Buddy, so I'll add the our guys used to do "Not Fade Away" back in the Hawks days. One thing that Buddy and Frank Sinatra had in common was that they both had hits with Paul Anka songs (as did Tom Jones, Donny Osmond, Linda Ronstadt and Anka himself). I wonder if the Band ever performed Anka material - even at some massed-groups rave-up during their mid-'70s tour with Ronstadt.

As some sort of historical sidebar, I'll note that it was Anka who got David Clayton Thomas and the Shays, a talented Toronto sub-Hawks group, onto the Hullabaloo TV show and onto Atco records - in '65, 'round about the time that our guys also appeared on Atco.


Entered at Mon Feb 10 21:36:17 CET 2003 from dialup-0950.dublin.iol.ie (193.203.147.182)

Posted by:

Hank

Location: Cork
Web: My link

Subject: Goin' Faster than a Roller-coaster........

Hmmmnnnn.....after Laurens post......I dunno.....

I mean, I WAS gonna tell y'all about how, at this past weekends gigs, on the final D major chord of "The Weight" I would segue straight into Buddy Hollys "Everyday"....to great effect....but uh.........I dunno.....


Entered at Mon Feb 10 20:47:43 CET 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Posted by:

Bones

Thanks to everyone who posted about the "Salute To The Blues" show with Levon. WOW! I wish I could have been there. I hope Mr. Scorsese told his director how legendary guys like Levon and Dr. John are, so that we get a lot of good shots of them when the show is released.

Ed Voci: Artie Mogull may have had something to do with Sinatra and the Reprise label that was created for him, but it's hard to believe he's old enough to sign Sinatra to Capitol way back when. There is another Sinatra/Robertson link, for ol' blues eyes sang a cover of "Dry Your Eyes" written by Diamond/Robertson. By the way, a lot of people get record awards. Nick Wechsler, Robbie's manager(agent) when he went solo, received a gold record for Robbie's first solo album.


Entered at Mon Feb 10 20:25:04 CET 2003 from (203.197.126.104)

Posted by:

Yazooman

Location: hot summer and country
Web: My link

Just coming back from an awesome live concert !! Don't know how many of you would be intersted but I couldn't help sharing this here.

A small group of people here in Calcutta have decided to revive the jazz and blues scene here. Calling themselves Congo Square they are planning to hold a series of concerts involving major musicians from the West to come down and play for us. Today was the first concert, that had Shawn Lane, Jonas Hellborg, Andrea Marchesini and Selvaganesh.

They played jazz-fusion, and it was some of the best playing I have ever heard from any band. In fact as far as live concerts go, this was easily the best that I have ever heard. Shawn Lane is a very good guitarist; in fact the best thing about him is that depite being very fast he manages to keep the emotion in his playing. One of the reasons for his could be the fact that he plays the guitar in a very Indian style, which gives the notes a very natural emotion.

Jonas Hellborg is one monstrous bass guitarist, an awesome player. What made it even better was that his playing was so melodic. I have seen people pleying six string bass guitars, but Hellborg had that brilliance I have not seen in any player live !!

Andrea Marchesini was pretty solid on the drums. Selavaganesh was one awesome percussionist, he was playing a South Indian persussion instrument that I had previously not heard, but the sounds he brought ou were simply awesome.

If any of yopu guys want to see some real virtuoso playing, I would really recommend these guys. If Selvaganesh is with them (he does so on and off) then you can be sure they will bring the house down.

Butch.....any chance the Barnburners could come down here for some blues, Levon could meet up with Purna Das Baul you know.......pleeease....

yazoo


Entered at Mon Feb 10 20:20:07 CET 2003 from gpf-t197.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.197)

Posted by:

sadavid

Location: just above Entropy
Web: My link

Subject: raisin' Kane / werewolves

I am hesitant to invoke Virgil's name as he seems to be enjoying a well-deserved rest between resurrections on these pages. I feel duty-bound, however, to report that the Samuel Jackson movie "Formula 51" ("The 51st State" in Britain?) has a character with the name "Virgil Kane." Beyond the name, there is no connection to our favorite protagonist. The film has no redeeming social value, more or less "Pulp Fiction" Lite. I managed to suspend disbelief - plus most higher cognitive functions - and enjoy it thoroughly.

Thanks to Michael Swanwick for the report from the werewolf space/time continuum; beautifully done!


Entered at Mon Feb 10 20:18:14 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

PeterV: A quick stroll through Collis' "Inarticulate Speech of the Heart" turns up a couple of Band-related things. Your tape-ography might like to consider the existence of Van/Robbie material from the early '70s. Here's what the book says, in the chapter headed "West from Woodstock": "It all pointed to a move, and a move to the West Coast. Morrison was often there anyway, commuting across the continent to work with Robbie Robertson. The track "4% Pantomine", which was included on The Band's 1971 album "Cahoots", was the only public result, however. Yet another factor was that relations with his then manager, Mary Martin, were deteriorating." First, there's the clear implication that more material was in the can. Second, there's Mary Martin again, the person responsible for putting Dylan onto our guys.

A bit earlier, there's "Morrison encountered the music of near neighbours The Band during the preparations for "Moondance", never more obviously than on "Brand New Day", an optimistic, soulful anthem with clear echoes of Dylan and The Band's "I Shall Be Released" .... In fact, Morrison has acknowledged that, at a time when he was growing increasingly alienated from the music he heard on the radio, a track by The Band put him back on course. "Brand New Day" is the result. Collis also finds the Band reflected elsewhere on the album: "'Caravan', pinned to a Band-like walking sequence of chords ..."


Entered at Mon Feb 10 19:40:06 CET 2003 from pool-141-153-194-74.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.194.74)

Posted by:

Bumbles

Location: New Jersey U.S.A.
Web: My link

Subject: Band Biographer's Spector Psych Job

Barney Hoskyns checks in with a Phil Spector rehash at the above link to Slate…


Entered at Mon Feb 10 19:39:56 CET 2003 from mcha-aj055.taconic.net (205.231.150.55)

Posted by:

Lil

Subject: Re: Rick's death

Emmanuel/Empty Now/Jerry: Rick died of a massive stroke in his sleep. He had very high blood pressure for awhile, in addition to other health problems. He was under a doctor's care, and was taking some kind of coriosteroid (either prednisone or something in that family) which caused his "bloated" appearance. He had been ill for awhile before his death. I hope this clears things up.Thanks.


Entered at Mon Feb 10 19:37:47 CET 2003 from pool-141-153-194-74.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.194.74)

Posted by:

Bumbles

Location: New Jersey U.S.A.

Subject: Band Biographer's Spector Psych Job

Barney Hoskyns checks in with a Phil Spector rehash at the above link to Slate…


Entered at Mon Feb 10 19:15:26 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Subject: Rick Danko

Please everybody, give the necessary informations, don't recall painfull memories, i wish you understand


Entered at Mon Feb 10 19:02:11 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

Subject: Ricks death

emanuel...There are a few people in here who actually knew Rick and they could tell you from a personel standpoint about Ricks life and his passing. I'm just going by what I've read, Rick died in his sleep from I believe heart failure, I don't think he was ill before his death although I'm sure the extra weight didn't help, he also struggled with dependency for a good part of his life and that may have had something to do with his weight gain and ultimatley his heart failing, your right about him being a warm guy, the folks in here who were lucky enough to share his friendship or meet him while he was performing will tell you that......


Entered at Mon Feb 10 18:44:56 CET 2003 from on-tor-blr-a58-03-1143.look.ca (216.154.15.127)

Posted by:

Wittgenstein

Sometimes this site gets really intriguing. Thanks Lauren.


Entered at Mon Feb 10 18:25:17 CET 2003 from pool-138-88-29-70.res.east.verizon.net (138.88.29.70)

Posted by:

lauren

Location: you know

Subject: urgent

robbie- this is not a joke- there is a good likelihood that claire bronnitt might be attached to someone whom I was going to testify against in NYC whom delivered ingredients to make a bomb that was the Columbia Univ., bombing in the 1970's and was never apprehended. Due to nyc heightened threat I am not able to go there yet. The police know. Also kim wexler I am told has committed a crime and a lie against me. Read the "do the crime sue the city" article with the pix of Mayor Bloomberg and read it-from the NY Post the other day. You'll understand it. It has also been passed on to me today that she is being blamed for apt. theft- I am todl my 2nd ex roomate and the landlord's son as well as my ex boss have all submitted info regarding this possibility and more than that- likelihood. And the landlord and his son saw then after an older woman in a silver car trying to get into that hell apt. and they said to them that I agve them the keys. I do not even know them- thatw as bout summer 2000. I am told wexler did it. Yesterday I could not get in touch with ANY NY Senator or Congressman's voice mail for the first time yesterday. Not even to the head of the FBI. AND there was a bomb plot somewhere yesterday announced on TV. 2 marines and a civilian. PLEASE I BEG YOU STAY AWAY FROM THAT "school". IT is dangerous. Love from your friend, Lauren


Entered at Mon Feb 10 18:21:02 CET 2003 from sttn-sh5-port11.snet.net (204.60.53.11)

Posted by:

Todd Atkinson

Location: Connecticut

Subject: Salute To The Blues

I had the good fortune of being able to attend the Blues show at Radio City Music Hall in NYC Friday Night. My seats were orchestra, Row 20, and I was in blues heaven. In addition to the fine reviews already posted here, I would like to add a few highlights of the show for me.

First of all, it was great to see Levon playing with the other greats in such a fine venue. The sound was amazing, and Levon looked as happy as a kid on Christmas morning. His playing was great, and there was a genuine feeling of family and camaraderie coming off that stage.

In between acts, while they were making stage changes, there were video clips, of various blues greats playing on the large monitors on both sides of the stage. Just before the Hubert Sumlin and Levon performance of "Killing Floor", they showed a great clip of the Wolf doing "Evil" (I think) and a brief interviw segment. I noticed that Levon didn't take his eyes off the screen during this and applauded enthusiastically with everyone else in the crowd. The spirit of the Wolf was in the house.

On each seat, was a small burlap bag containing a CD of some blues classics, and a "Delta Blues Map Kit" which had maps, and travel tips for people who might be interested in traveling to some of the historic blues sites of the South. I thought that this was a very nice touch and attention to detail that you don't get at many concerts.

Among the many musical highlights (in addition to Levon) were: Waren Haynes great slide guitar playing with Greg Allman, Buddy Guy (everything he played was magic), Kim Wilson's (Fabulous Thunderbirds) great harp playing, and John Fogerty's voice (clear as a bell, and so powerfull). It was great to see Dr. John. He played some guitar, in addition to piano. The real standouts vocally were the female singers. They all sang with so much feeling. It was a class act.

All in all, it was truly a night to remember. I was too young for the Last Waltz, so I am especially pleased that I was able to make it to this show. I can't wait to watch it again, when it airs on PBS this spring. Thanks to everyone involved.

I'll try to post some photos soon.

Todd


Entered at Mon Feb 10 17:48:37 CET 2003 from (68.169.14.90)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny

Subject: Route 66 (The Song and the Highway)

Bill: the song "Route 66" has always been a favorite of mine and I own some very different interpretations ranging from a vinyl version by Perry Como to a video of Robbie Robertson, Eric Clapton and Zal Yanovsky backing Natalie Cole (her dad did the classic version of the song). I love the way that Mick Jagger managed to mangle many of the town names in the early Rolling Stones take on the tune, but my personal favorite is Chuck Berry's little-known recording of the Bobby Troup nugget.

In recent years there have been books including "Route 66: the Mother Road" and a documentary or two about the history of the legendary highway. Martin Milner, co-star of the 1960's TV series called "Route 66" narrated one program that revisits some of the remaining roadside attractions along what was once America's finest superhighway. There is even a whole line of Route 66 merchandise now, but I'll stick with collecting versions of the song.


Entered at Mon Feb 10 17:09:21 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

In addition to the red vinyl record that Richard has, Ronnie Fray's Versatile Capers did (at least) two LPs. The first, "Introducing the Versatile Capers", recorded in April '65, has ex-Hawk Jerry Penfound (calling himself Jerry Penn) singing "Route 66". The second, "Get Caperized", recorded after Penfound had left, has a version of "Bo Diddley". Ronnie Fray contributes some commendable Robertsonesque guitar where appropriate.


Entered at Mon Feb 10 15:03:26 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Emmanuel: some say heart failure

Butch:thanks for the music, we all know Levon is the best, joint note is irrelevant


Entered at Mon Feb 10 14:48:44 CET 2003 from node14654.a2000.nl (24.132.70.84)

Posted by:

emanuel

Location: amsterdam
Web: My link

Subject: ricks death

After looking trough rick dankos photo album I couldn't help noticing he gained a lot of wheight the last couple of years. I was wondering if their is a connection to his early death. does anybody know what happened? was he ill? I have the bands classic album video at home including a very nice interview with Rick concerning richards death in 1986(I believe) in which he says he couldn't understand that richard, or anybody for that matter, could feel that way (about suicide). such a warm person , really sad. emanuel


Entered at Mon Feb 10 12:36:06 CET 2003 from mcha-ai023.taconic.net (205.231.28.23)

Posted by:

Lil

Crabgrass: Thanks so much for sharing those wonderful photos from the Blues cruise! Not only do I love the photos of all the performers, but your photos of the NY skyline are really beautiful as well. I've always wished I could take photos like that (I usually end up with my thumb and people without heads :-) Thanks again.

Hi Molly! Nice to "see" you here again! Hope all is well with you.

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.


Entered at Mon Feb 10 04:45:56 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

JTull = me too - I was browsing around Tower Records the other night and I was looking at the Cooder CD. I ended up picking up a compilation of music from Blind Lemon jefferson and Charley Patton instead. But the last few posts have convinced me to go and pick up Ry tomorrow.


Entered at Mon Feb 10 04:10:56 CET 2003 from ip-189.dial.webperception.com (64.7.64.189)

Posted by:

Molly Z

Location: Ca

Subject: Last Waltz Video

Heyaz! Missed you all, especially ones that i've known in here for years - Lil, Crabgrass, Donna, Cupid, Jan, etc.

Anyways, last night my dad rented The Last Waltz video and I loved it. I don't remember if I saw it a few years ago and rented it, but it sure brought back memories of reading this GB all the time and listening to The Band a bunch. Good times.

Nice to come back and read in here again. :-) Feel free to AIM me at mollyz2000. I'm always online. Hugs to everyone.


Entered at Mon Feb 10 03:45:08 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

J.L.B.

Location: TN

Subject: salute to the blues

*?#!,I forgot about the whole thing(I've been busy).Does anyone know when Salute to the Blues is comin' out.I could kick myself for forgetting it.ASAP


Entered at Mon Feb 10 03:14:33 CET 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Posted by:

Tiny Monster

Location: Out-There
Web: My link

Subject: Blues

Thanks Butch. Crazy listening to my son play to John Hammond in the background as I read your post there ... almost (but no cigar) like being there. Are any of us ever going to get to hear any of that great music?

God I hope so ...



Entered at Mon Feb 10 03:12:34 CET 2003 from (209.236.161.13)

Posted by:

Mikey Lenahan

Location: Clinton NJ

Subject: Blues Forever

Hey Butch, My God, sounds like I missed a killer show.....I am gald to have been a part of the Howlin For Hubert show at BB KINGS last month. The hope it's not the last time you or I see these GREAT BLUES GODS again. The night at BB KINGS was awsome....and I am sure Radio City...with all its top billing was even better....Let's hope that they all play for a very long time. Peace. I hope to see Butch at the Tom Pacheco Show with Jim Wieder and Garth Hudson on the 28 of Feb. at the Pattenburg House


Entered at Mon Feb 10 01:01:45 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-ti054.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.174)

Posted by:

JTull Fan

Location: Richmond

Subject: Ry Cooder/Manuel Galban

I saw that cd and almost picked it up while connecting at Atlanta's airport early last week. After reading the last few posts I ran with my wife to Barnes & Noble today and picked it up and it is a fantastic work! I was definately in the mood for something different and this did the trick. We are off to Aruba for 9 days next month and we will be taking it with us for our 'Carribean Soundtrack'.


Entered at Sun Feb 9 22:35:09 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-tb043.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.38)

Posted by:

butch

Location: from the roots to the fruits

Subject: the BLUES

Caledonia,, you got the feel of friday very nicely,,, the feel of Radio City was awesome,,,, i thought,,,,just walking around that hall was a joy,,,,& the Blues vibe made it into a big Living Room, in gramma's house,,,,

i was blessed to be with Levon all week, & together we enjoyed all the rehearsals,, the friendships & the respect of ALL the performers was inspiring,,,,

when Mavis Staples saw Ruth Brown, it was like her own mother walked in,,,, & Levon with Keb'Mo' & Willie Weeks,,,,same thing,,,

there were so many greats,,, one of the singers Vaneese Taylor was RUFUS'TAYLORs Daughter,, ( Mr Memphis----/ walkin the dog )

also the trumpet player,, the GREAT BEN CAULEY,,,was & is the sole survivng member of Otis Redding's plane crash,, a Bar-Kay,,,, greats like that,, little known outside the Blues family,,,

as the week progressed , Steve Jordan showed his genius again & again with his vision & musical direction,,, little things like Levon on mandolin as danny kortchmar played guitar & Keb' played dobro,,, watta sound,,,, or levon picking up the maracas & playing on the snare with them for the tyler/perry boys,,,, & they LOVED it,,

James "BLOOD" Ulmer & alison krauss was amazing together & Alison's little boy Sam was a bright delightful kid,, really funny,,,

it was an education of slavery, jim crow & how the music progressed with the history of the eras,,,,an amazing show,, for High School or Jr High school kids,,,,

& as always,,, Hubert Sumlin is the true "old school," gentleman,,, played perfectly,,, & was a joy to be with,,,,,

also,, as usual, Senegalese artist Angelique Kidjo bubbled over & when she played with Buddy Guy & Vernon Reid on VoodooChile,, WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO,,,,,

bonnie ( raitt) was Bonnie,, but Lazy Lester is a GREAT ONE,, sooooo slick & cool,,,,oh WAIT !!!!! Odetta with John Hammond was also blistering on Jim Crow Blues & Levon on drums,, the huge warm hello John gave Levon was like the last 40 years never passed,,,\,

All in All,,, it was a joyous night,,, raising $$$$ to educate school kids to the Blues,, & so many greats together , some for the last time,,,i fear,,,, But The VIBE was great & the music better & the crowd & the Musicians all love our boy Levon , so much,,, He got , as Caledonia said,, one of , if not the, biggest roar from the crowd, ( Dr John was 2nd ),, the respect the other musicians hold him in is high,,,, & obvious,,,

when Levon gave one of the musicians a joint,, he said " i cant smoke THIS,, Levon Helm gave it to me,,, i have to FRAME this & hang it on the wall",, i kid you not !!!!

the Blues community is a loving (cranky) supportive group of folks who came up the hard way & have lived to laugh about it,,,,,

G-d Bless 'Em all,,,,,,,,,,


Entered at Sun Feb 9 21:48:33 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: Many Thanks

Thank you Caledonia, for that great account of Friday evening's show. Sounds as if you had a wonderful musical experience and those are always good for the soul.

I can't wait to see the film.


Entered at Sun Feb 9 21:19:09 CET 2003 from (63.164.145.33)

Posted by:

Caledonia

I went to the "Salute to the Blues" show on Friday night. Here are my impressions. Please forgive any errors or misspellings. I look forward to hearing what other people thought of the show!

For those of you who have never been to Radio City, it is an elegant concert hall with a large orchestra section, three balconies and perfect sound. I was in the first balcony and had a great view (although I would have loved to have been in the orchestra section). There were two large cameras (and two video screens) on each side of the stage. The show was filmed for theatrical and DVD release (Martin Scorsese produced - but did not direct the show).

The show began with a short speech by Martin Scorsese. He apologized in advance for any inconvenience the cameras may have caused ... although from what I could tell the cameras did not interfere w/anyone's view (cameramen occassionally walked the stage w/handheld-cameras getting incredibly cool shots of the performers - especially the guitar players).

The show began at approximately 8:15 p.m. and ended at 1:15 a.m. The person who directed the show and the images that were projected on the video screens throughout the night (I can't remember his name at the moment) did a beautiful job. It was like being at TLW and having a screen overhead projecting the concert in real-time as if it were already the edited film version w/beautifually framed shots and incredible close-ups. It was impossible for me to take my eyes off the video screen because the images were so incredible. If the resulting film is similar to the footage that was shown that evening it's going to be incredible.

I'm not going to be able to remember every performer and song they sang, but here are some highlights. For the most part, each performer sang one song. Occassionally, someone came out and did a duet w/someone else. Buddy Guy seemed to make the most number of appearances throughout the show. The show began w/Mavis Staples, followed by Odetta. India Arie sang a powerful and haunting version of Strange Fruit. Angie Stone sang Stormy Monday. Clarence Gatemouth Brown looked cool and lanky in black (w/a great cowboy hat) - like a blues gunslinger. Buddy Guy ... oh, oh, oh! wait till you see Buddy Guy. He wore a sharp black suite w/a cool black hat and a bright red shirt. He looked amazing. And wait till you hear him play! I was in awe - there were incredible close-ups of him pushing up on his guitar strings. And wait till you see his electrifying smile and the look in his eyes!

Macy Gray came out and was the first performer of the evening to get everyone on their feet. Her hair was wild, she wore dark sunglasses, tight satin pants and a beautiful burgandy velvet jacket. She looked like a combination of Mick Jagger and Jimi Hendrix! She was beautiful, sexy and looked sooooo cool w/total command of the stage. I think many people will tell you that she stole the show. She sang Hound Dog and managed to make the song her own. She was extremely charismatic and her performance was amazing! I loved it!

Natalie Cole was surprisingly good and got a great response. She did two songs, one w/Mavis Staples and Ruth Brown (Bill Cosby came on stage for this part of the show). John Fogherty did a joyful version of The Midnight Special.

Steven Tyler and Joe Perry were very good w/Joe singing and Steven backing him up and playing some great harmonica. Shameika Copeland sang two songs, one w/Robert Cray.

Dr. John played piano (and I think some guitar too!) throughout the show (he was almost a member of the house band) and did one song alone. He used a cane to get on and off the stage.

The house band consisted of Steve Jordan, Ivan Neville, the Memphis Horns, Babi Floyd, Willie Weeks etc. They sounded great!

David Johansen did a song w/Hubert Sumlin. Solomon Burke brought down the house! Bonnie Raitt played one song alone and later played w/B.B. King during the finale. Gregg Allman was great - he played the organ. I hadn't seen him in a long time. He looked older, but cool w/his hair pulled back in a braided poneytail. Chris Thomas King did a version of If I Had Possession Over Judgement Day. The Neville Brothers were fantastic (as usual).

Levon was essentially a member of the house band. He played throughout the night (drums, tambourine, maracas, and I think mandolin?). He seemed to be having the time of his life and backed up so many performers I can't remember them all! He made a point to shake hands w/each performer (or pat them on the back) as they walked on and off the stage. Occassionally he played the drums along w/Steve Jordan. At the end of the show, he got a loud round of applause from the audience. It was great to see him having such a great time!

B.B. King closed the show and by that time many people (in my section of the 1st balcony) had already left. The girl sitting next to me even fell asleep!

Overall, it was an incredible evening, and the highlights for me were Macy Gray, Buddy Guy and Solomon Burke. It was not a perfect show, and in particular the 2nd half (Jon Spencer Blues Explosion etc.) seemed to get a somewhat cool response from the audience. Still, I am so glad I was there to see so many of my favorite musicians. There were many moments that I will never forget ... I can't wait to see the film!


Entered at Sun Feb 9 20:31:21 CET 2003 from 1cust226.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.226)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Blues Cruise

Seeing and hearing Hubert up close on the "Tribute to Howlin' Wolf" Blues Cruise was definitely the best musical time I experienced during 2002. (JWB at the Bottom Line comes in as a close second.)

Clicking the above link will take you to my Blues Cruise video stills which Jan so kindly put up on this site.


Entered at Sun Feb 9 20:09:53 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.2)

Posted by:

Richard

Location: St Catharines

Subject: Ronnie Fray

Ronnie Fray: Thanks for taking a moment to stop by! You are definitely an inspiration for many Southern Ontario musicians. I still have my vinyl copy of the "Ronnie Fray Capers" (the all-red cover w/ Ricky Nelson's "Travelin' Man" - you signed my copy in Welland one day while I was in for a guitar lesson).

Check him out folks, it's no wonder Danko held him in high regard.


Entered at Sun Feb 9 18:42:12 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

Somebody want to say something about the new Hubert Sumlin CD "About Them Shoes"... It looks like it gots Clapton. Richards... and Levon, among a host of others, all enjoying themselves... according to AMG... I'm thinking about picking up a recent Hubert... and was wondering if this was the one... but I can't find where it's sold... I luuuuv that video from Homespun... Crabby, you and BEG must have really had a blast on that boat ride a while back... take care folks... It's nice to see so much new CDs being mentioned... even if we can't buy them all...


Entered at Sun Feb 9 17:31:20 CET 2003 from h00104c1150c6.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.30.166.195)

Posted by:

jt

Location: mass

Subject: sally

hey sally was nice chattin with ya, and I just want to tell you i think i speak for everyone when i say im sorry for your loss.....our prayers are with you and yours


Entered at Sun Feb 9 17:15:40 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.1)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Subject: Part-time honesty

Lil: Thanks again

Muffy: i dont see what you mean, a coincidental interaction made me guilty
"Half truths can be more damaging, and are often more dishonest, than straight out lies. That's why they count as lies. Just thought I'd mention it"
All my respect to smokers in GB: cigarette is killing me

Jan: after, Politics, Religion,...You must interdict Personal Health Report in GB....sorry everybody



Entered at Sun Feb 9 12:31:52 CET 2003 from mcha-ag003.taconic.net (205.231.148.194)

Posted by:

Lil again

I realize I can't let this day go by without mentioning that it holds alot of bittersweet memories for me. This was the day, 23 years ago, that I first met Rick. (He used to tease me and say when he hit 20, he was gonna sell :-) He wasn't around for 20, and he's not around today, but I think of him everyday and miss him tremendously. His protective caring and friendship through the years meant the world to me. I always think of him on this day and feel so thankful that our paths crossed when they did.

On the subject of Rick's daughter Lisa, obviously Rick was very proud of her. Parents are proud of their kids. He talked about all 3 of his kids often, just as any father would. I did have the pleaseure of getting to know Lisa and Justin, and I was very close to Eli. He was most like his dad, and he made me laugh. Ol Rick would be busy doing something, and Eli would do things like take all the clothes out of Rick's dressers and closet..turn them all inside out.. and then put them all away again. That kind of stuff kocked me out.

Anyhow, I have to work today (a day of rest?? yeah right!) so I'd better shut up and get moving here. Happy Sunday folks.


Entered at Sun Feb 9 11:57:57 CET 2003 from mcha-ag003.taconic.net (205.231.148.194)

Posted by:

Lil

Michael Swanwick: What a wonderful piece of writing! Thanks for sharing that with us.

Happy Birthday Butch! Wishing you good health and happiness always. Thanks for everything.

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.


Entered at Sun Feb 9 08:55:21 CET 2003 from 64-80-240-55-access.surferz.net (64.80.240.55)

Posted by:

muffy

Location: another desperado's timewarp, maybe?

Subject: name dropping again

Dave: BTW, it's definitely NOT Martha Stewart, although that ties in to how the stage -- or professional -- name came about in the first place. No one could see me as a Martha, and Muffy is just too preppie for some to cope with. Being in need of a name that people could be comfortable calling me, I became Nichole R. Again however, since some are uncomfortable with any variant spellings, I alternate between using the 'h' and not. (For those who know what the 'R' stands for, it's the surname, which is why it only has one 'e'.)

Thanks for giving me an excuse to clear that up for once and for all. Bluesflute and DrummerFromDC are screen names -- and I'm not whining about poverty for the sake of whining. I've been going through all kinds of surgery over the past few years, am a chronic pain patient, still dealing with several medical problems, and therefore on Disability. Hopefully things will improve in my life, but it's been a long, tough haul -- especially given how cold it can be in this town. And I'm definitely not talking about the weather ...


Entered at Sun Feb 9 07:51:56 CET 2003 from 64-80-240-55-access.surferz.net (64.80.240.55)

Posted by:

muffy

Location: Br-r-r-r-r-r-r-rsville

Subject: blues

Man, it's cold around this town these days. In more ways than one ... but that's a whole other tangent.

Sitting here waiting for the review of Levon's show with bated breath, already ... (It sure will be nice when buckage begins to flow into my life once again. Wow. What a concept. Being able to go out, go to shows, to have a car and just go wherever I need to go ... In the meantime however, thank goodness for Butch's recaps.)

Well, Butch??

(And as far as Rick being proud to have Lisa as his daughter ... Of course. Who wouldn't be?)


Entered at Sun Feb 9 05:34:28 CET 2003 from (204.101.153.2)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Subject: Radio City

I was surpised there has been virtually nil on Salute to the Blues on the wires, or in Saturday's local papers (Post and News are all that I have searched, NYCwise), although AP moved about a dozen photos late Friday, mainly on celeb arrivals — Steven Tyler, Aaron Neville, Martin Scorsese and B.B. King, for example.

Also, some early pix of James Blood Ulmer and Alison Krauss performing the song Sittin' On Top of the World. Other photos show Odetta, Honeyboy Edwards, Buddy Guy, Bonnie Raitt and Ruth Brown. Later pix included several of B.B. King performing, also of Bonnie Raitt and Robert Cray, Buddy Guy and Angelique Kidjo, Solomon Burke, and Steve Tyler and Joe Perry.

But that was about it. Sorry — no Levon.


Entered at Sun Feb 9 02:35:21 CET 2003 from spider-te013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.178)

Posted by:

Prudence

Location: Upstate New York

Subject: Martin Page

I love Stone & Light. This recording means so much to me. THANKS!


Entered at Sun Feb 9 01:25:51 CET 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp191399.sympatico.ca (64.229.0.34)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: Ry and Robbie in Bam Mag / Garland Jeffreys

bassmanlee: Yes I saw the caricature of Garland Jeffreys.....Garland and his wife sent a copy to me.....It was advertising their February and March gigs in NYC.....The one in the New Yorker was also sent to me........."Rock and Roll Adult Garland came of age in the late sixties, in hock to Bob Dylan and in the company of Louuu Reed.....hasn't stopped exploring the links between rock, race and rebellion".....I just cannot say enough about Garland as a writer, performer, humanitarian and how generous he is to his fans.....I still can't believe I was at his after party at a Jazz Club in NYC......Would ya believe.....He was performing again?....Some jazz musicians performed at his party and Garland joined some acappella singers from Long Island......BTW.....I was hoping another New Yorker would show up.....;-D

There's also a Ry Cooder ("Fascinatin' Rhythms" article in the same 1988 BAM Mag).....Ry was 40 years old....It's interesting to note that both Ry and Robbie really started to hear the sounds they wanted to make..........certain notes and chords....a certain feel........when they were about 16 years old.....But of course it took obsessive practising to actually make those sounds.....Like Robbie he needed to take breaks from the music bizzzzz......Also....Let's not forget about MARC RIBOT.....THE PROSTHETIC CUBANS.....I would looooove to see Robbie, Ry and Marc jam together......Band connection for those who need it......Marc played with Garth Hudson on Marianne Faithfull's Tour.......

BTW2 Ed....I've never been a Robertsonian......I've always been a ROBBIESONIAN......(I have seen Garth and Levon perform many times and will continue to support their live endeavours) Here again is Robbie......in his own words from BAM Mag......The impression I get is that he didn't want to sound like The Band anymore.....If he did.....then why did he leave? Or when Robbie split from The Band.....How come the remaining four musicians couldn't write and sound like The Band?

Bam: This album isn't anything so obvious as an attempt to educate the American public on Indians, but did you use that imagery for so many of the songs just from a personal frame of reference that seemed best at the time? You didn't have any underlying agenda behind it?

Robbie: No, I felt like I couldn't do this when I was with The Band. It's always been on my mind, but I felt, "This is really selfish to go in and say, 'Guys, you know about my background and everything, so could we do some Indian things?'" I couldn't do that. Now, I don't have to ask anybody. So this is what I want to do...

BAM: A lot of the songs on this album might seem to some in a vein not dissimilar to what U2 has done as far as open spirituality. U2 uses spirituality references for its own purposes; here, you seem to be mixing up Christian and Indian imagery and terminology. Is that a mixture you were consciously trying to achieve?

Robbie: I think that's what I've always done. The first line of "The Weight" is "I pulled into Nazareth." This is nothing new for me. It might be for some people, but it feels like I've been there all along.

BAM: But here the Indian references seem to combine with that and make it stand out in a different way.

Robbie: Um-hm. Spiritualism is a big part of my life. That's what makes me thrive. That's what keeps my curiosity up, that's what makes me want to live until tomorrow. The spiritualism of it, this unknown quest that we have, it's completely inspiring. See, I can't write about "I went down to the store and bought a chocolate bar and I came back and she'd smashed up my car..." It's very, very self-indulgent to me. I don't know how to do that. Some people actually can do it pretty good, and it's got a charm to it and it's kind of funny, but after I've heard it once, I know it. It's like hearing a joke. And I don't need to hear the joke over again. It strikes me that way. Those kind of songs, once I know where this thing has gone, if it doesn't maintain this spirituality and this mysticism....That's why the mythology thing is so big to me, it's big, big. And to draw upon that, I don't feel limited. I don't feel like, "Oh God, now what am I gonna write about?" I feel like "What are you talking about, what are you gonna write about?" It's BIG........


Entered at Sun Feb 9 00:11:20 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Ben Pike

Subject: Paul Vrs. Yoko, Paul Vrs. John

The letters section posted in response to Salon's "Paul Vrs. Yoko" article make for better reading than the piece itself. To the fray I would throw/pose the question: While "Yesterday" was the song all rushed to record in it's time, as the years have gone by hasn't "In My Life" become the more enduring standard, and isn't it a better song to boot?


Entered at Sat Feb 8 23:50:16 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

Location: St. Paul

Subject: Sam/Lil

Sam...Ive heard CCR's Chronicle and really like it, a couple of there songs Helm, Danko, or Richard would have sounded great doing..from what Ive read about the CCR split it sounded to me like Clifford and Cook knew there role in the band and knew how talented John really was, at least that was the impression I got. I'm sure theres more than a few different storys out there with many different versions, there is a rummor that after Cook and Clifford would leave the studio after recording, Fogerty hired studio musicians and recut the tracks, both Clifford and Cook say this is false, as you said very nasty...

I saw "About Schmidt" last night and it's as good as they say it is, maybe Jack's best role but that's really not fair because there have been many.Kathy Bates is in it and is great as usual, she does something that she doesn't have to do but isn't surprising when you consider what a great actress she is...

Lil...Absoulutley there should be a intervention for Jacksons kids, but I would have thought hanging your kid outa window in broad daylight on t.v. no less would have been enough to at least seriously investigate him, but with his latest admissions theres no need to investigate he's admitted to being warped..well at least when he sleeps with his kids and his Hollywood wacko friends children he sleeps on the floor in a sleeping bag..yeh right...


Entered at Sat Feb 8 23:22:48 CET 2003 from du-tele3-243.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.243)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Ry & Manuel

Ry Cooder / Manuel Galban – another power play is track 8. Also track 4 “Patricia” is driving me mad because it was a TV theme to something for years, possibly in the UK! Just listen to that acoustic bass – it will rattle your walls. It all brings back a night in Mexico City where I was taken to a Cuban restaurant and was entranced by the elderly band for 30 minutes. This is magic, I thought. Then a square lady (i.e. height=girth) in her 60s came out to riotous applause and proceeded to emote in song while walking round the restaurant, tears streaming down her cheeks receiving flowers on all sides. She was no doubt a superstar, but for me it was excruciating. I was given a CD too as a memento (no idea where it is), but though the lady was not to my taste, the band were utterly wonderful. Ry has single-handedly rescued Cuban music for the world audience, and gratitude is due!


Entered at Sat Feb 8 22:35:03 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.162.86)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: RY COODER / MANUEL GALBAN...MAMBO SINUENDO

PETER VINEY........couldn't agree with you more. Listening to Secret Love right now. My wife was downstairs and suddenly she was just standing beside me.....listening. Ry is the man!


Entered at Sat Feb 8 22:06:31 CET 2003 from du-tele3-243.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.243)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: MAMBO SINUENDO

Sorry for the Sp.


Entered at Sat Feb 8 22:04:58 CET 2003 from du-tele3-243.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.243)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Me too

I've been listening to Ry Cooder's 'Mambo Insinuendo' all day too - this is a magic record (especially Doris Day / Kathy Kirby's "Secret Love" which is "It's Gonna work Out fine" for 2003). You know those Casio keyboards you get for your kids - there are 3 rhythm accompaniment presets you actually use and 7 you play with only on the first day- this is the music based on the other 7, but Jim Keltner's playing them. Highly recommended.


Entered at Sat Feb 8 20:19:17 CET 2003 from 64-80-53-214-static.surferz.net (64.80.53.214)

Posted by:

muffy

Location: Br-r-r-r-r-r-r-rsville

Chris in Walkill, you've hit on a sticking point, and one I've often brought up for discussion. Granted, I've been out of the loop for a while, so don't know what it's like now -- but in my day, finding out how to book them and/or where they're playing was not unlike the search for the Holy Grail or for El Dorado. There have been a few noteworthy exceptions among the management teams for these fine gentlemen (which in my own experience, they are to a man, BTW) but for a long time I was under the impression that they must be deliberately hiding. Low key is one thing, but it always seemed like it went waaaaay beyond that.

Dave, I'm afraid I don't know the recording you're talking about, but can certainly ask around, and may even find out for you. As mentioned previously, I haven't gotten a chance to see or hear a lot of what's out there -- albeit not for lack of trying, and certainly not for lack of interest.

Empty Now, thanks for clarifying. I thought that might be a reference; and indeed, the tone of it sounded familiar. Now I know why, and am on my way to the link.

On a slightly more cryptic note, to go back to the general subject of being presumed innocent until proven guilty and such -- Half truths can be more damaging, and are often more dishonest, than straight out lies. That's why they count as lies. Just thought I'd mention it.


Entered at Sat Feb 8 19:51:21 CET 2003 from (68.169.14.90)

Posted by:

Charlie Young

Location: Down in Old Virginny

Subject: Ry & Robbie

I love the new CD called "Mambo Sinuendo," featuring Ry Cooder collaborating with Cuban electric guitarist Manuel Galban. I wish Robbie Robertson would try to record something like this, dropping singing in favor of letting his great guitar playing provide the lyricism. Meanwhile, reliable sources at the Smithsonian report that Robbie has been a key early supporter of the massive Museum of the American Indian, due to open in 2004.


Entered at Sat Feb 8 18:59:04 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Web: My link

Subject: Bob Dylan

Dave: Sara...great song...Ferdinand the (im)poster...funny

Dave, Muffy: Satan stuff, check the link please. "Man of Peace" lyrics in Dylan Album "Infidels" 1983


Entered at Sat Feb 8 18:33:09 CET 2003 from wwwcache.lanl.gov (128.165.156.80)

Posted by:

Kay

Location: NM

Subject: Joe, Butch, Michael

Thanks for the lineup Joe...I am so envious that you were there. I hope we will get one of Butch's distinctive show reviews when he recovers from his week in the City.

And on the subject of literature, thanks to Michael Swanwick for the WZ story. It was a pleasure to read. I hope your newspaper appreciates you.


Entered at Sat Feb 8 18:24:27 CET 2003 from abby15.revealed.net (208.16.227.206)

Posted by:

Mike D.

Sam,

I agree with getting "Chronicle". Mind you, the only song missing is "Born On The Bayou". But if their best studio album was, without a doubt, Cosmos Factory. I love their cover of "I Heard It Through The Grapevine". Best version of that song I have ever heard, outside of Marvin gaye's rendition of course. Sam, have ya decided on what things you wanna trade for? And didja get a list yet bud? :)


Entered at Sat Feb 8 18:10:41 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Posted by:

Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Joe = nice list of performers. You're sure gonna have some stories to tell your grandchildren - one week you're breaking down Levons drums in a little bar on Long Island, then a week later you're hanging out at Radio City among some of the greats - nice.

Jerry = I was also pleasantly surprised to see Fogerty's name on that list. If you want to get a decent collection of CCR stuff check out the CD called, "Chronicles". Also, get his solo "Centerfield" CD........We've touched on this in here before, but CCR had some of the nastiest feelings surrounding their split that any band has had. I remember hearing that on his deathbed Tom Fogerty told brother John that he sided with Saul Zaentz (spelling?)who was the Fantasy Records boss who was making John's life difficult.

I kind of lump Doug Clifford (CCR drummer), and Stu Cook (bass) into the same category as Art Garfunkel. These are, without any doubt, very talented guys who were important parts of the songs that they are famous for being part of. But they should wake up every morning realizing that they were very lucky to have been hooked up with John Fogerty, and Paul Simon, respectively.

I goes to show how hard it is to get a band to not only "click", but to keep it going without some friction creeping in. It's something to think about the bands that have had some nasty parting of the ways. Even back to Buddy Holly you have the Crickets parting ways. The Belmonts parted from Dion. That's one of the things I give Aeorosmith credit for. Somehow the original line-up managed to land on their feet after going through alot of turmoil. They realized that they had a good thing........It also does my heart good to have The Beatles end up being OK with each other. About the only thing that seemed to be bugging Lennon in 1980 was George didn't give him the mention he thought he deseved in George's "I Me MIne" book. Otherwise John, and George left this Earth with their relationships with old bandmates being pretty good - especially George.


Entered at Sat Feb 8 17:09:17 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

Location: St. Paul

Wow...what a line up for Salute to the Blues, can't wait for it to be aired on PBS

I noticed John Fogerty was also at the show, I recently looked up a CCR website, Ive always liked hearing them on the radio but don't have any of there albums/cds, Ive never sided one way or the other over the LH RR fued but after reading about how Fogerty treated his band mates during the time they were a group and after the split even those totaly loyal to Helm would have to admit theres no comparison how RR treated his former mates verses how Fogerty did his. As has been well documented Fogerty did it all for this band, he produced,wrote and arranged all of there music this was a one man act from the creative standpoint, as we all know the Bands music was more collaberative with RR doing most of the writting being the difference between the two groups, so when Fogerty announced with absolutley no disscusion that there nex't and subsequently last album "Mardi Gras" would be with all band members contributing, Stu Cook and Doug Clifford were understandly shocked and tried to talk Fogerty out of it because they knew it was the end of the band. They decided to do it anyways with hopes of saving there band, Fogerty offered little help to his mates in fact refusing to even play on the others tracks. When Cook and Clifford decided to go out on there own Fogerty prevented them to use the bands orginal name and settled for Creedance Revisited instead, contary to Robertson working with his mates after they no longer were a band and ultimatly giving his blessing on the Band reunited, he could have made it very difficult for the rest had he thrown up legal roadblocks, to his credit he didn't....


Entered at Sat Feb 8 14:40:07 CET 2003 from spider-tm033.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.58)

Posted by:

Joe

Subject: Radio City Music Hall show line-up

There may be 1 or 2 omissions. Pardon any spelling errors.

Macy Gray Arnold

Kim Wilson

Jimmy Vaughn

Willy Weeks

Steve Jordan

Keb Mo

Levon Helm

Dr. John

Ivan Neville

Lazy Lester

Buddy Guy

Larry Johnson

Mavis Staple, Ruth Brown, Natalie Cole, w/Bill Cosby on stage

Honey Boy Edwards

Odetta

India Arie

Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown

Robert Lockwood Jr.

Bonnie Rait

John Hammond

Gregg Allman, Warren Haynes

John Fogerty

Steven Tyler, Joe Perry

The Neville Brothers

Shemeka Copeland

Robert Cray

Hubert Sumlin, David Johansen

Angie Stone

Soloman Burke

BB King

Show time was over 4 hours but truly a musically historic event. Thanks to Butch & Levon for having me


Entered at Sat Feb 8 13:51:09 CET 2003 from roc-66-66-65-100.rochester.rr.com (66.66.65.100)

Posted by:

Tim

Location: Rochester
Web: My link

Subject: Rochester Groove

Come check out RochesterGroove.com a site for jamband fans in the Rochester/Wester NY area.


Entered at Sat Feb 8 11:23:42 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.206)

Posted by:

Michael Swanwick

Subject: Warren Zevon

Warren Zevon was dying, and everybody in the werewolf community was pretty broken up about it. I know because my paper sent me out to get their reaction to the news.

"He's our Elvis," one werewolf said. We were in a werewolf bar in the Northern Liberties. There's a lot of night-life thereabouts, and most people are too involved in their own stories to hassle minorities. "He's like a god to us. But fuck you if you don't get it."

Everyone in the bar growled when he said that. The little hairs at the base of my neck stood on end.

"This is because of his song Werewolves of London, isn't it? I've heard that's kind of like your national anthem."

A sharp-looking bitch with spectacular breasts jabbed me in the chest with one red-painted claw. "Yeah, sure, we like that song and Splendid Isolation and Excitable Boy and Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner. But it's not the subject, it's - "

"The growl," somebody said.

"No, it's not! It's the sensibility. It's the voice. It's the perspective. We're talking a guy who was so far out of the consensus that he saw things as they are. We're talking someone who was angry at the shit that the people in charge are trying to force down our throats and wasn't willing to call it chocolate."

More growls.

"He was one of us," the first werewolf said. "Whether he knew it or not. He was one of the victims who decided to fight back. He never forgot whose side he was on."

Somebody threw back his head and howled.

"The night he dies," the werewolf said, "you know what I"m going to do? I"m gonna find the smuggest, most complacent record company executive I can and tear him limb from limb!"

"Yeah! Me too!"

"Fuck, yeah!"

"Amen, brother!"

And while they were all howling and slapping hands, I slipped out. I had my quotes. I knew when to cut and run.

I'm not a werewolf myself, and I'm too old to pretend otherwise. But when my main man dies, I'm probably going to get roaring drunk. Maybe I'll break things. Maybe I'll go out and start a few fights. I might throw somebody through a plate-glass window.

Or maybe I'll just sit down and try to write more, tougher, truer, better. Maybe I'll do my tiny bit to carry on the fight.



Entered at Sat Feb 8 06:43:38 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Ed Voci: I'd like to say that I'm in Japan...working undercover for The Man, but sadly, my occupation is rather boring....I teach (or is that pretend to teach!?!)

Is this opera going to be an outdoor production or an indoor one? very important especially with regards to staging (and acoustics, too, I guess)

I like the Gourds version of Gin & Juice


Entered at Sat Feb 8 05:36:26 CET 2003 from spider-tl062.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.202)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: Bones

Bones:

Thanks for the info. Yes, I had asked about who signed The Band to Capitol, because, according to a New Yorker article from some time ago, the same person had signed Frank Sinatra in the 1950's. The other Band connection to Frank was RR in TLW telling the story of Ronnie Hawkins' recruitment pitch which used Sinatra as the bench mark for ceratain, ah, how shall I put it, fringe benefits that went with being a rock musician. So, what is your connection to Artie Mogul IYDMMA? My next question, since when do they give a record company signer a gold record and why? edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Sat Feb 8 04:49:02 CET 2003 from spider-tp033.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.188)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

Add my name to the list of folks wanting to hear how tonight's show goes... the blues... Thanks Muffy, now you got me wondering if Rick's daughter is the woman singing with him in a beach house/studio at one point in the Authorized Band Video?... very pretty, nice voice too... Thanks Empty Now, yes I vaguely remember that chat room visit a while back... I went and listened to Dylan's song Sarah... over and over again afterwards... beautiful... a long song too... take care all... btw, I went and looked up that Van interview with Happy... and found it but couldn't find the excerpt... so I was either imagining things... or mixed up interviews... oh well... ga-nite...


Entered at Sat Feb 8 03:41:13 CET 2003 from hse-toronto-ppp3483562.sympatico.ca (65.92.92.209)

Posted by:

Cousin Paul

Location: Niagara Falls Canada

Subject: Ronnie Fray

Ron, We have talked about this before, usually in your van when you played Ho-Jo's. Rick and Terry's eyes would light up when I mentioned your name. I would have to think it was The Hawk's pleasure that you sat in with THEM!! P.S.,For you Band fans Mr. Fray is a legend in his own right here in Canada. This guy plays acoustic guitar and plays bass with his feet on this pedal contraption. A symphony!! If you get a chance check Ronnie out. Lisa, I would love to here from you, Your cousin, Paul. cousinpaul@sympatico.ca


Entered at Sat Feb 8 03:39:25 CET 2003 from parachute3-156-40-62-24.net.nih.gov (156.40.62.24)

Posted by:

Quinn the Eskimo

Location: Maryland - land of snow

Subject: Old Dylan Interview

Published Friday, Oct. 12, 2001, in the San Jose Mercury News

Voice of the prophet

BOB DYLAN DISCUSSES THE STATE OF MUSIC, CREATIVITY AND A FIVE-STAR REVIEW

BY ROBERT HILBURN

Q Have you ever felt you were a superficial artist?

A Sure, I think the tour I did with the Band in 1974 was superficial. I had forgotten how to sing and play. I had been devoting my time to raising a family, and it took me a long time to recapture my purpose as a performer. You'd find it at times; then it would disappear again for a while.


Entered at Sat Feb 8 03:29:55 CET 2003 from 1cust159.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.159)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn

Subject: Michael Jackson

My theory is that Michael Jackson keeps his kids' faces veiled because they are undergoing plastic surgery procedures to make their faces identical to his. And I didn't watch him on TV last night btw. Interesting thread for the GB though!!


Entered at Sat Feb 8 00:33:04 CET 2003 from spider-te033.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.188)

Posted by:

Sally

Subject: Super Freaky

Anyone see Michael Jackson on 20/20 last night??? I think he cut off his nose to spite his face!!! Where's child protective services when you need them???


Entered at Fri Feb 7 23:41:19 CET 2003 from dyn216-8-153-2.sar.mnsi.net (216.8.153.2)

Posted by:

Ronnie Fray

Location: London Ontario Canada
Web: My link

Subject: The Hawks etc.

I was asked to do a number or two with the band in Hamilton Ontario in Jan./03. It was indeed a great pleasure to see all the old friends and musicians from the past 40 years. Keep on rockin'..... R FRAY


Entered at Fri Feb 7 23:01:18 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: Tour 74

Dylan's singing on the '74 tour was indeed forceful, his voice still strong and not yet displaying the tendency to mumble words that would surface in later years. What was very evident, was the change in his inflection of the words, a constant trait throughout his career. Rather than duplicate the original way he sang a song, he would alter which words to emphasize. Certain words in the middle and at the end of each line would be italicized, changing the cadence, often significantly, of the way he sang each verse.

What made this tour special, in my mind, was that Dylan, in The Band, had not only a great, sympathetic group backing him, but one who could follow his every nuanced twist & turn without losing a step. In addition, The Band had the ability to propel Dylan to higher levels in his performance. Above all, the '74 tour, was a symbiotic association of musical forces that one rarely has the opportunity to witness. The paucity of new material, in my opinion, was overcome by the energetic air of anticipation and the ultimate fulfillment in the intensity of the performances.


Entered at Fri Feb 7 22:46:09 CET 2003 from (63.65.190.196)

Posted by:

KLJ

Sad that Chris don't know that there is no BAND to book anymore. But maybe he could book Levon and the BB's or the Jim Weider Band or the Crowmatix!!!!

I just recently got the Jim Weider Band's new one Remedy and the Crowmatix latest as well. Both great albums. Thank Levon and the Band that my love for their music lead me to these other great groups. The stuff that's on the radio/TV these days ....uhm.....sucks (for lack of a better word).

Anyway, I think any Band fan would like the Crowmatix and Jim Weider CD's and they aren't paying me anything to say so. It's good stuff.

Hope Levon and his Blues Band put one out soon, even if it's live. Actually I'd prefer it live, I think.

Take care

JOHN


Entered at Fri Feb 7 22:38:45 CET 2003 from 170-215-242-13.mdl.frontiernet.net (170.215.242.13)

Posted by:

Chris

Location: Wallkill, New York

Subject: Booking

To The Band, I didn't see a link for booking, so I figured I'd sign this and hope you see it. Anyway, I'm planning an outdoor music festival in August 2003, somewhere in Southern New York. I wanted to find out how much it would cost to book you for the event. Please get back to me as soon as possible, by emailing me at bcuda318@hotmail.com. Thanx!


Entered at Fri Feb 7 21:56:25 CET 2003 from ric-sn-oprx-pxy2.firstunion.com (169.200.215.36)

Posted by:

Bones

Ed Voci: I believe it was you that asked this question regarding who first signed the Band. Artie Mogull sent me a letter telling me that he had just (in the last few years) received a gold record for Music From Big Pink. He received the award because he signed The Band to Capitol Records in the late sixties.

It was nice to hear Dana Glover's North Carolina accent on Leno last night. Her voice is more impressive live than on record.


Entered at Fri Feb 7 20:57:15 CET 2003 from x.electronet.net (216.173.174.94)

Posted by:

Brent

Subject: Tour 74

Thanks for your thoughts, David. It definitely makes sense that the Band, and Dylan, for that matter, may have felt that they were artistically treading water on this tour. I wish they had been able to work up some more different material, but I'm sure time was a factor. Dylan's comments that he had "forgotten how to sing" (paraphrased) really piqued my interest, too. I love his forceful, shouting delivery on a lot of these numbers.


Entered at Fri Feb 7 20:37:24 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

Do any of you know anything about a mid-'60s group called the Soul Set, one of whose 45s was a cover of "He Don't Love You (And He'll Break Your Heart) with an instrumental version of same as the flip?


Entered at Fri Feb 7 20:31:26 CET 2003 from t3o955p98.telia.com (195.252.53.98)

Posted by:

Tessie

Location: Karlstad- sweden

Jh jasså du driver den här sajten... I Dont know that many other band fans but I'm working on my friends and it looks good..there's not many fans in my age but I'm sure that there is many older peopel who likes it very much... But as I said I will work to get younger peopel to discover this wonderful Band! :D


Entered at Fri Feb 7 20:13:09 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Subject: 1974 Tour

A postscript to my previous post: Dylan also performed "Wedding Song" (from "Planet Waves") several times on tour.


Entered at Fri Feb 7 20:11:40 CET 2003 from dialin-960-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.4.198)

Posted by:

Gene

Web: My link

Subject: Pepote Rouge's Quest

"Yes, I think it can be easily done Just head down highway 61"...em, I mean... check out the Yahoo group "Bandtrades", leave a message and somebody is sure to want to swap lists and, maybe, trade.

Hit the link


Entered at Fri Feb 7 19:50:42 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: 1974 Tour

Addressing Brent's thread regarding the Dylan/Band tour in '74 -- Although it was a whirlwind commercial success and most people who witnessed a performance (including myself) thoroughly enjoyed the concerts, Dylan and Robertson have expressed that they weren't completely happy with the venture from an artistic standpoint.

I'm guessing that they felt that they were not breaking new ground, but rather covering material that they were familiar with & felt comfortable performing. Both Dylan & The Band, in their performances together & separately managed to inject new fire into their interpretations of older songs and dusted-off & breathed new life into some chestnuts. A quick look at the various set-lists from the tour, however, reveals that only a handful of newer songs were performed. "Tough Mama", "Forever Young", and "Something There Is About You" from the newly recorded Dylan/Band collaboration, "Planet Waves", were worked-up. A very effective version of "Knocking On Heaven's Door" from the "Pat Garrett..." soundtrack was performed, and the Dylan rarity, "Nobody 'Cept You" occasionally turned up on the tour. From the Band perspective, the only "new" song that was performed regularly was "Endless Highway".


Entered at Fri Feb 7 19:32:39 CET 2003 from du-tele3-192.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.192)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: Jimmy Scott

The re-release last week by Rhino of Jimmy Scott’s “Falling in Love is Wonderful” has caused a lot of attention. It was out for only 2 weeks in 1962 on Ray Charles’s Tangerine label, with Ray Charles playing piano throughout, and then deleted at once for contractual reasons. It’s been cited as Marvin Gaye’s favourite album, and a huge influence on Brian Wilson too. Scott’s also said to be Ray Charles’s favourite singer. Until the re-release a copy was said to be worth about $800 (it probably still is on vinyl!) Scott’s voice is weird- due to a genetic condition his voice never broke, so he sings in female registers. The album also has a single sustained mood throughout. So the question is, did Richard Manuel, with his love of Ray Charles’s music know this album? It sounds to me as if he might have and even that it might have been an influence on things like his version of I Shall Be Released. Does anyone know?


Entered at Fri Feb 7 18:46:20 CET 2003 from 159.ppp144.rsd.worldonline.se (213.204.144.159)

Posted by:

Woodlark and Meadowlark2

Location: Nordic Countries
Web: My link

Subject: Jan Høiberg, Tessie, Karlstad town

The Norwegian motor rally fans are invading the Swedish town of Karlstad (mentioned in jh's post) this weekend. We are joining the party on Town Square, too. If there are any Norwegian or other Band fans on the Square please yell WOOOOODLAAAARK!!!! and we'll wave our hands. (My link is "only" my gb vCard.)


Entered at Fri Feb 7 18:34:07 CET 2003 from ns1.prenhall.com (198.4.159.5)

Posted by:

Ray G

Location: Pearl River, NY

Subject: Just got Jim Weiders' video guitar tutorial "Electric Country Blues"

Lifeboy=Thanks again for the Homespun Tapes link!

I just got JWs' instructional video, "Electric Country Blues" in the mail from Homespun Tapes (delivered in three days). I'm about half way through the first video and I'm very happy with it. So far Jim has explained, in detail, techniques used Lonnie Mack, James Burton, and Robbie Robertson. I'm particularly happy with the James Burton riffs... Banjo rolls, pulls, hammers, I've gotten pretty close with some of his techniques but no cigar. Something else he does a good job of explaining are Fred Carters' riffs from Levons' tune Milk Cow Boogie". Jim is very clear cut and thorough in terms of teaching and is easy to follow.

I got parts one and two as a package for $70 bucks, three hours worth of instruction in all. Considering that one to one sit down guitar lessons run between $30 to $60 an hour... this is, in my opinion, a really nice deal.

Peace


Entered at Fri Feb 7 18:35:33 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-ta074.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.54)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

Thanks Bill... my favorite artist right now is Emily Carr and I always wanted to travel to Vancouver Island or just Vancouver to see some of her work... now I got a bead on some music in the area... assuming those guys play live occassionally... maybe I'll have to try that CD out...


Entered at Fri Feb 7 18:22:54 CET 2003 from snyflcj.flcc.edu (192.156.234.137)

Posted by:

Pepote Rouge

Location: NY

Subject: LIVE SHOWS

Would anyone be able to help me find....the Band Greek theatre show from 76....and/or the Danko 77 solo show and R+R 84 show listed on this site. Any help would be great. Thanks also to Jon Lyness for answering back my last post. I need a live version of Tears of rage!!! Help


Entered at Fri Feb 7 17:32:49 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

DaveZ: Sam Hurrie's name was raised here by me, not because Sam has anything to do with the Band, but because his new website (www.samhurrie.com) has neat pictures of he and former Hawk Eugene Smith playing together in '61 and in '91. (They both lived in New Toronto way back when, and they both live on Vancouver Island now.) That said, it's interesting that you went on to talk about Charlie Patton, because Sam's CD, which the website was created to publicise, is all solo country blues, including a version of "Screamin' and Hollerin' Blues" and an original titled "Charlie Patton".


Entered at Fri Feb 7 17:22:32 CET 2003 from (63.121.115.197)

Posted by:

bassmanlee

Location: Firmly T.I.C.

Subject: The New Yorker is Robertsonian tool?

For what it's worth, a quote from Robbie appears on page 37 of the Feb. 10 issue of the New Yorker in a short article about the DVD Premiere Awards held "a couple of weeks ago" in LA.

"...and then Robbie Robertson, of The Band, came onstage to accept, on behalf of himself and Martin Scorsese, the award for Best Audio Commentary (Library Title), for the reissue of "The Last Waltz". Roberston peered out at the crowd and smiled. "Is it just me, or is this not the 'Twilight Zone' of award shows?" he said. "I keep expecting David Lynch to stand up and yell 'Cut!'"

The same issue contains a graphic honoring tonights 'Salute To The Blues' event with caricatures of Bonnie Raitt, Gregg Allman, Aaron Neville, BB King, and Dr. John, among others, but, alas, no depiction or mention of Levon. (BEG might be interested to know that a caricature of Garland Jeffeys appeared in the Feb. 3 issue.)


Entered at Fri Feb 7 16:50:11 CET 2003 from x.electronet.net (216.173.174.94)

Posted by:

Brent

Subject: Tour 74

Just (re)read a Dylan interview at http://www.home.ix.netcom.com/~mmfamily/Dylan%20Interview.html in which he says that he felt like a "superficial" performer on Tour 74. Anyone care to discuss why this tour and album are remembered this way-at least by Dylan- don't remember reading what the Band members thought? I personally love "Before the Flood."


Entered at Fri Feb 7 14:28:14 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-ti044.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.169)

Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: Lisa D., Fred, BEG

Lisa D:

One day on a street in San Francisco in the mid 1990's a friend of mine, Khalid, ran into you and your Dad as you were jumping into a cab. Kahlid shouted out, “Hey, Rick, how are ya!”. Your Dad said, with the utmost pride, “Hey man, check it out, this is MY DAUGHTER”, pointing to you with a big, loving smile on his face.

Fred:

TNTDODD Opera must, repeat, must be in the Italian style since 1) Garibaldi is in it and 2) I say so. Now, if that means Virgil must have a love interest other than Mrs. Caine, we may have to talk to Librettist Peter Viney about borrowing from Movie Screenplay Writer Peter Viney and Movie Casting Director Ed Voci, i.e. Halle Berry, one of Virgil’s ex-slaves (You’re welcome, Levon, I know you’ll dig shooting these scenes). As Casting Director I’m also thinking about a role in TNTDODD Movie for Virgil’s father-before-him to be played by.........Johnny Cash. For many excellent reasons beyond the beards, I do like the Garth/Garibaldi combo, but how do you think Garth will look in a red shirt while riding a white horse with a big plume in his hat? I say, stunning! Finally, as Casting Director for TNTDODD Movie, I have added the role of Anita Garibaldi, the G-man’s spouse and comrade in arms, which role goes to.....Salma Hayek (“Frida”) (your welcome, too, Garth). So, Fred, what do you do in Japan besides watching Bobbie D movies, if you don’t mind my asking?

Brown Eyed Girl:

A comment on the RR quote that he “could not make another Band album”. RR could not make another Band album because he was no longer a member of The Band and therefore no longer emersed among the four other talents that created The Band's music. This is the seminal point of the song-writing controversy: the ensemble nature of, as Garth said in TLW, “getting the songs together”. My apologies, not only only to hair-splitting intellectual property law attorneys, but also to the Robertsonians if I have transgressed some GB etiquette here. However, I was not a part of earlier discussions, diatribes, etc. on The Feud and could not resist this one comment having seen that quote. By the way, a letter of mine on The Feud was published in the September, 1996 Guitar Player magazine (Hendrix on the cover) where separate interviews with RR and RD had been published a couple months earlier.

edwardvoci@aol.com


Entered at Fri Feb 7 12:24:45 CET 2003 from mcha-aa031.taconic.net (205.231.148.30)

Posted by:

Lil

Jerry: I watched the thing on Michael Jackson last night. Very scary stuff. I have to wonder if the rest of his family is as off-the-wall as he is. If not, why don't they take those 3 poor, masked children away from him before it's too late?

To anyone who's heading to Radio City Music Hall tonight.. drive carefully (roads are slippery and it's snowing like crazy)..and enjoy! I expect a full report here tomorrow.

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.


Entered at Fri Feb 7 11:17:09 CET 2003 from 64-80-240-16-access.surferz.net (64.80.240.16)

Posted by:

muffy

Subject: p.s.

Oh, and Dave: Lisa D. = Rick Danko's daughter Lisa. I didn't realize that was so obscure, and hope she doesn't mind my talking about her here. Rick would positively beam whenever he mentioned her. The reference was to what he told me after giving her a guitar.


Entered at Fri Feb 7 11:13:19 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Posted by:

jerry

Location: St. Paul

Subject: "66" Mickey Jones home movies

A friend of mine recieved the Dylan home movies for a gift a while back, so he brought it in and I watched it last night, it was fun seeing the guy's way back when no doubt, but ya know what..home movies are home movies no matter who's in them, they reminded me of my former Father in laws vacation movies, the first 10 minutes being o.k. but after that your lookin for the door...the naration was great.. and heres the hotel where we stayed, theres Penamaker, I really loved that hat, every shot out of the planes window was over the wing, flying really was a big deal back then I guess... I can't say I expected more but it was worth a chuckle, it had to be a gas though being 20 something and experiancing that..

Anyone see the Wacko Jacko interview last night, Micheal being asked how long he wants to live: Well I don't want to die, I want to live forever... whatever ya say Mike....


Entered at Fri Feb 7 10:07:02 CET 2003 from 64-80-240-28-access.surferz.net (64.80.240.28)

Posted by:

muffy

Location: it used to be D.C.

Dave: 'hit and run' just means I don't drop by this GB often, unless I have something to say. (Ergo, if my posts sound out of sync with the rest of what's going on here, it's because they are.) I also tend to be relatively cryptic, but there's a reason for it -- like preferring to keep my private life private f'rinstance, while also wishing to clear up a bit of confusion in some circles. (Don't let it get to you: I don't know who you are either.) As a regular at The Getaway and Deanie's, I did a 'crossing voices' thing with Richard that I'd very much like to get my hands on if it was taped. For that matter, and for reasons obvious to me at least, I'd very like to get ahold of anything I sang with him ... (Now, the 'Satan' stuff I don't know a thing about, so can't comment on it. T'wasn't me.)

Tessie: Much of the world feels the same way you do, in my experience. The first time I even heard of anyone who didn't know of The Band and/or who wasn't a fan, was when I moved to Upstate NY. (Go figure.) Welcome to the fan club, though. It's huge.


Entered at Fri Feb 7 09:44:00 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Subject: PS (spot pube)

Where had i my mind
and evidently, our wonderful, our unique BEG: you get it Dwight Yoakam, who will be in the role of Jesse James


Entered at Fri Feb 7 09:40:40 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Subject: Knok Knok Knokking on Heaven's DOORS

very funny Peter

Jan: The link item in the posts is the invention of the century. I am using it like a strategic weapon. Dont cut it please.

Lil: check you email box, please. i confirm my address: now dot empty at caramail dot com

Dave Z : sorry i sadden the GB. My first entry in The Band website, the chat, i was seeking for details about the recording session of "Sara" of Bob Dylan, you explained me the users manual of the GB. I guess this can refresh your memory.
Thanks also for sharing my emotion about the scene in "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly"


Entered at Fri Feb 7 07:57:00 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Posted by:

Fred

Speaking of films: The King of Comedy was on TV last night. I hadn't seen it in a long, long time. Tonight they (they being state-run Japanese TV) are going to show New York New York..I guess they've got a DeNiro-Scorsese thing going on this week!

About that Dixie/Opera: good choice for Garth as Garibaldi, the beard is perfect. If it's going to be an Italian style opera then Virgil Caine needs to have a love interest which is basically doomed (it seems all Italian operas have this); if it's going to be like a German opera then the mythological aspects can be played up, while loosing the doomed-lovers angle.


Entered at Fri Feb 7 07:46:02 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Posted by:

Dave Z

Location: Chaska, MN

I must be tired... or really awake... because for the life of me, I can't keep up with all the different subtle voices going on lately in this place... it's like being with my in-laws where you have 5 people in one room carrying on 10+ different conversations with each other all at the same time... and the multi-tasking ability is so high the same person can be happy in one, blue in another, and just plain mad in a third... anyway, God bless ya Empty Now... ya sound sad... but yer freaking me out... I do recall that Clint scene where he gives the cig to a fellow human being... but then I got lost lost after I saw words like satan, extreme limit, illness (not i-ness) and pardon... coupled with a detour through the Muffy/Nicole/Martha S. (Stewart?) and Lisa D hit n' run stuff?... Heck, I'm still trying to process who this Sam Hurrie guy is that Paul Donobie is talking about?... Anyway, what's the expression "He's happier than if he knew any better"... So thanks Empty Now, I think... I don't recall the Molly chat thing but feel free to email me at dlzuck at zucks.com... I liked your poems... I guess I relate to Ferdinand the Imposter song so much because I think we are all imposters in a sense... nothing dark mind you, it's just I'm doing that midlife startover from nothing going nowhere fast rag myself right now... On a different note, and more in Peter V's territory... I recall reading from the Van-site, a Van interview with Homespun Happy (a.k.a. my own personal DVD guitar teacher right now)... and Van has some really coolo neat things to say about the Band... along the lines of people don't know the range of what they can do together... and the world only sees a wee bit... and this was I think back when Van was in Woodstock... anyway, I'm gonna go see if it is also on Jan's site here... it's a long interview with only a part being directly Band related... but Happy gets Van talking instead of fighting... Also, I recently got the Landy CDROM... and no problems easily using it... the Garth music is cool, though it sounds like more than him?... and I will definitely buy one of the newbies if Mr. Landy decides to take up his scanning... he does really cool stuff!!!!!!! And since nobody is reading at this point anyway, and Alann Eddge has'nt posted in a while... I'm gonna talk to myself a little bit more... and recall again before I retire to dreamland my nice drive home tonight... cold as the blues... with a Cheshire Cat-like moon always in front of my car... as I returned from another night of night school critique of sub-par work... listening to Charlie Patton in my Jeep, now jealous it won't be making a road trip with me... Charlie, who when I heard the Dylan song Highwater... I envisioned him as some Nashville fat white guy... but now I am wondering if he maybe inspired Stills guitar drumming antics... and I am wondering about old blues singers who don't live in the south where it has got to be warmer than here right now... no, Chicago's windy but it ain't International Falls cold... other than Bob, who's the best cold blues dude... actually Charlie sounds like Dr. John if he were singing on a cold Hennepin Avenue tonight... where he'd surely be another entitled fat MN bird acording to our new governor... just a fat bird looking to score some topins in a cold as shit town... ganieenigh...


Entered at Fri Feb 7 06:39:42 CET 2003 from ip-207-198-222-219.nyc.ny.fcc.net (207.198.222.219)

Posted by:

Eddie Hodel

Location: Queens, NYC

Subject: Tom Pacheco/Tessie & The Teenage Band Fans

Tom Pacheco, friend of THE BAND, great songwriter and Band collaborator of such songs as High Cotton, If I Should Fail, is playing NYC this month check TOMPACHECO.COM. Tessie from Sweden: It's good the know that young people are learning about the musical genius that is THE BAND. I heard the band from my older brother during the mid 1980's. I never got to see the original members either, but enjoyed Richard, Garth, Rick, and Levon. check out Woodstockrecords.com they have music that carries on THE BAND tradition, including Professor Louie. Also if you like the song "THE WEIGHT" check Jim Weider version on his album 'Remedy'. Also, if you happen to be in Cork, Ireland check for live performances from a guy called Hank, he's likely to play your favorite Band song Tessie.


Entered at Fri Feb 7 06:32:08 CET 2003 from h-68-164-227-229.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.227.229)

Posted by:

Pat Brennan

crabu, thanks for the oomph. I just saw Gods And Generals, the new Civil War epic. The best thing about it is the Dylan song over the credits.


Entered at Fri Feb 7 06:24:47 CET 2003 from 1cust243.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.243)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Died on February 7

Wow!! Just after midnight here in old NYC and I was just thinking what fun the Dead of Alive site is - then I checked the "Died on this Date" page and found that Falco died 5 years back in a car accident and Nick Adams (Johnny Cash sang the theme to his short-lived 60s TV show "Johnny Yuma The Rebel" kicked off on drugs way back in '68 - knew he was dead but not the reason.

Bummer! I'm gonna tuck in now!!

[Hope this mention doesn't trip off another 10 day discussion about the Civil War.]


Entered at Fri Feb 7 06:12:17 CET 2003 from 1cust243.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.243)

Posted by:

Crabgrass

Location: The Front Lawn
Web: My link

Subject: Birthdays - February 6

Fabian, Bob Marley, and Ronald Reagan. Quite a mix!!


Entered at Fri Feb 7 04:29:28 CET 2003 from 4.40.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.40.4)

Posted by:

Ray Pence

Subject: Happy Birthday

...to Rip Torn, character actor with character, age 72...if he doesn't have a Band connection, he should, so I'm making one...originally slated to play George, Jack Nicholson's part in "Easy Rider" (which would have given him the coveted connection), Torn got his chance to fire up a joint in "The Larry Sanders Show"...dynamite as Richard Nixon in a long ago TV miniseries with Martin Sheen as John Dean (!), and as the manager in "Songwriter" with Willie Nelson and Kris Kristofferson...let 'er Rip!


Entered at Fri Feb 7 02:52:57 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3613095.sympatico.ca (65.93.194.208)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Subject: BAM Continued...Robbie at 44...

For Long Distance Operator and Bones

BAM: With this LP, some songs have more of a musical connection with the past for some old fans than others. "Showdown At Big Sky", for example, may be fairly recognizable as having come from the same guy who wrote songs for The Band. But some of the other material may shock people. When you were going into making the album, did you think, "Gee, all this time has gone by, I have the chance to musically reinvent myself here", or was it more "Let's just go into the darkroom and see what develops?"

Robbie: I knew I didn't want to make a Band album. I couldn't make a Band album. When I sit down and play, this is the way I play now, and these sounds are the sounds I imagine going with the songs. It's really just evolution, I guess. It isn't trying to be clever or smart. It's just the way I feel now. When the album was done and mixed, I listened to it and thought, "This works for me. I can live with this." And I feel pretty strongly that if I listen to it in 10 years, I'll feel good about it. These are the things that are important to me. It doesn't sound like it's trying to be modern. It doesn't sound old-fashioned. I don't have Synclaviers and Fairlights and sequencers - which I'm very familiar with and I enjoy using very much. I'd rather do it on guitars. And a lot of the sounds on the album that sound like "Good Lord! What's that? Is that a Synclavier?"...It's guitar. And a very little bit of keyboard stuff. Peter Gabriel did a little bit and Garth Hudson did a little bit, and I did most of it on two little cheapie keyboards that Daniel Lanois went across the street and bought one day. He said to 'em, "What are the keyboards that people least buy here?" and came back with these keyboards. That's what I used for an instrument on the album, keyboard-wise.

BAM: Do you ever go so far as to do research for songs? That may sound silly, but I ask because lately I've talked to some people who do, like Warren Zevon.

Robbie: Yeah? What does Warren research?

BAM: Well, when he wrote a song, "Leave My Monkey Alone", about Africa, he read all these books on Africa. I assume you didn't do much research into American Indian culture for this album, since you have the natural research of having spent time on reservations...

Robbie: Yeah, I don't know much about Africa. I'm very impressed with the place, but I mean, that's Paul Simon's job to do Africa songs. I don't know about Brazilian songs, either. I think it's an interesting thing to mix...I mean, I can go so far as to go to Ireland and play with a rock and roll band from Ireland, but for me to go to Uquabunga, Brazil and use these guys, I don't feel I belong. I feel like I'd just be using them, you know what I mean? I wouldn't feel like this would be a marriage. I'd feel like, "Oh, they got a cool thing, let me go get some of that on my record." It would make me feel self-conscious about it. But American music, and American mythology, I feel like I'm an expert on it. I know American mythology doesn't exist, but that's all I've ever written about. Somebody has to write it. And rather than having Julu drummers come in on my record, I'd rather the flavour be more oriented toward American Indian rhythms. That's always been ringing in my head, all my life, and I like it, and it fit into the music very naturally and organically. It doesn't sound like a cliche of Indian drums at all. If you listen to these songs and imagine some Kukaracha drummer playing on it, you'd see it would break the spell, it wouldn't be right.

BAM: And you feel a lot freer to do that now than in the past? This seems like a far, far bigger step in that direction than your Band songwriting.

Robbie: When you're talking on behalf of a group, on behalf of The Band, you have to take that into consideration. It was never comfortable for me just to say, "OK, boys, I'm on this trip now, this is where we're going today." That wasn't right for me. In their faces and character and their eyes, that's what needed to be projected as well. I just did the best I could telling the story with their story through us all. Now I don't have to talk on behalf of anybody else. And so if these things are coming to the surface more clearly or blatantly, it's because of that........

Empty Now: Sorry that I didn't comment on APP.....For me they were more of a concept than a group and they just never resonated with me.....The sound.....The voice......for me......it doesn't work.....just like the people that work for me.....don't work for others....BTW...So ya like Dwight Yoakam, huh?


Entered at Thu Feb 6 23:56:24 CET 2003 from du-tele3-233.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.233)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: New Year's resolution

Bob, I second that emotion. The Doors must bring up great memories of the era for many, and my New Year's resolution was to stop knocking The Doors, Pete Seeger and The Moon Struck One - until someone releases Pete Seeger & The Doors cover version of The Moon Struck One, then I might just have to reconsider!

Has anyone else read DPC Pierre's "Vernon God Little"? Pick up a copy!

This month's Uncut has a Bowie tribute cover CD - The Gourds' version of Ziggy Stardust is on it (as we were discussing them recently).


Entered at Thu Feb 6 23:42:13 CET 2003 from mcha-ah083.taconic.net (205.231.30.130)

Posted by:

Lil

Empty Now: Could you please post your e-mail address..or e-mail me at mine? Thanks. d_lil at hotmail dot com


Entered at Thu Feb 6 23:15:10 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.207)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: LDO

LDO, I'm not knocking it. It just doesn't hold any interest for me. I never found the Doors very intriguing. Ray Manzarek's keyboard sound didn't do anything for me.

I agree with your sentiment. Go for it and have a great time doing it. I hope those who loved the Doors music enjoy every note to the fullest. It's just not for me.

You must admit that landing Stewart Copeland was a pretty good move.


Entered at Thu Feb 6 23:00:23 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Posted by:

Long Distance Operator

Subject: The Doors

Bob, I beg to differ. I saw Robby Krieger in Boston last year, and he blew my socks off! I was pleasantly surprised. The man is actually a BETTER player today than he was in the '60's. I thought to myself, "Damn, if only we had that classic Ray Manzarek keyboard sound, I'd be transported back in time". Now, we can be.

Don't forget, Krieger penned many of The Doors' best-known hits. All the great hooks like "Love Me Two Times", "Touch Me", and "Light My Fire", for instance. Morrison wrote all the Lizard King rubbish, which was never really my bag. Charismatic sumbitch, though. Personally, I'm all for a Doors reunion. Why not? They're still here, and they still care. You're born broke, you'll die broke, you may as well go for broke.

I wish Robbie, Levon, Garth, and Bob Dylan would get together, too. Critics be damned!


Entered at Thu Feb 6 22:31:23 CET 2003 from c143wn2.wifi.halden.net (194.69.211.143)

Posted by:

jh

Subject: Porn link

Our Russian "friend" Jason's link to porn has been removed. Time to get rid of the "Web page" field in the sign-the-guestbook form, I guess. Just like we had to do with the e-mail addresses a while ago (and the "My picture" thing _years_ ago). If this continues, you'll probably only be able to post your name (or your IP) in this place :-)


Entered at Thu Feb 6 22:23:12 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.207)

Posted by:

bob wigo

Subject: The Money Must Be Right

I can't help but be amazed that the great Stewart Copeland is involved in this latest Doors project. More power to those involved for landing a drummer of his caliber. Frankly, seeing him perform would, for me, be the only redeeming factor in one of those shows.


Entered at Thu Feb 6 22:01:41 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Location: a thousand miles from nowhere
Web: My link

...time no matter to me....and you're so close to my heart

which is called a band (final): check the link to see an anoucement of concert of a new old band

WARNING: Peter, dont open the link please

i'de better gone before


Entered at Thu Feb 6 22:00:07 CET 2003 from ric-sn-oprx-pxy2.firstunion.com (169.200.215.36)

Posted by:

Bones

Dana Glover will be performing the song "Rain" tonight on the Jay Leno Show. I doubt if Robbie will be there, but you never know.....

Thanks to Brown Eyed Girl for the BAM interview. It's interesting that Robbie never had any problem with the Band reunion. He always said that they had his blessing and he hoped it works out great. There have been many lawsuits over the use of classic band names, and I'm glad Robbie did NOT pursue that road. Beach Boys (Al Jardine), CCR, Plant/Page, and many Motown acts had to use different names even though there were original members in the groups. Now, John Densmore is suing the rest of the Doors for using the name on a tour which he was not asked to join.


Entered at Thu Feb 6 20:53:06 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

I wished i were Eastwood in "A fistful of Dollars" to post the warning, David : You are Lucky Luke


Entered at Thu Feb 6 20:24:04 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Subject: WARNING

The link in the post of jason virs is a PORNOGRAPHIC SITE


Entered at Thu Feb 6 20:09:27 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

Posted by:

David Powell

Location: Georgia

Subject: Stage Fright mixes

There's always been some confusion over which mixes were used on the various versions of "Stage Fright". I prefer the mixes used for the out-of-print DCC gold CD reissue, remastered by Steve Hoffman. This version has a clear, smooth, but dry (less echo) sound than that of its counterparts released by Capitol. Although there's a raw looseness, I think there's more presence in its soundstage. A few months ago I had a chance to ask Mr. Hoffman (via his web forum) about what mixes he used. He kindly replied:

"I used the Todd mixes; the original mixes for the album, not actually used for the first album, but approved by the Band. Why some of the stuff was re-echoed or remixed I don't know, but I only used the tapes the Band signed off on, and (by the way) the only tapes Capitol would let me use for some reason. I think Capitol thought they WERE giving me the LP versions. Normally I would have screamed bloddy 'ell, but I liked these unused mixes much better anyway...

The later versions sound to me like the Todd mixes with echo (for some of them) plus a few mixes by GJ [Glyn Johns]."

So the DCC version apparently contains the initial mixes done by Rundgren, before he & Glyn Johns later did their separate re-mixes in England.


Entered at Thu Feb 6 20:00:48 CET 2003 from ts2-a92.vladivostok.dial.rol.ru (194.67.43.92)

Posted by:

digi

Subject: DIGIMARK

Pretty sure they played it at Radio City in the mid 90s. They had the horns, Howard Johnson etc, with em, and I remember, or think i do, a beautiful version.


Entered at Thu Feb 6 19:59:27 CET 2003 from ts2-a92.vladivostok.dial.rol.ru (194.67.43.92)

Posted by:

Jason Virs

Location: USA
Web: My link

Subject: hi

Hello, I was surfing around the Net and came across your guestbook. I thought it would be nice to sign it and say hello!


Entered at Thu Feb 6 19:51:37 CET 2003 from gpf-t200.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.200)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

‘There is no singing in parts, as we understand it, and yet no two appear to be singing the same thing--the leading singer starts the words of each verse, often improvising, and the others, who "base" him, as it is called, strike in with the refrain, or even join in the solo, when the words are familiar. When the "base" begins, the leader often stops, leaving the rest of his words to be guessed at, or it may be they are taken up by one of the other singers. And the "basers" themselves seem to follow their own whims, beginning when they please and leaving off when they please, striking an octave above or below (in case they have pitched the tune too low or too high), or hitting some other note that chords, so as to produce the effect of a marvellous complication and variety, and yet with the most perfect time, and rarely with any discord. And what makes it all the harder to unravel a thread of melody out of this strange network is that, like birds, they seem not infrequently to strike sounds that cannot be precisely represented by the gamut, and abound in "slides from one note to another, and turns and cadences not in articulated notes."’

-from the introduction to an old collection of songs (see link). As many of the singers were ferrymen, No. 83 (page 65) is perhaps of particular interest....


Entered at Thu Feb 6 19:40:12 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

Posted by:

MattK

Subject: Todd

I've always been happier with Todd's work on his own stuff than production he's done for others. The major exception being XTC's "Skylarkin'" (but given Andy Partridge's own reputation as a prima donna, perhaps it's a case two stong wills keeping each other "honest").

Todd's reputation in the studio is somewhat notorious. Even in the XTC sessions, the group took issue alternately with Rundgren's obsessiveness and his apathy, which apparently runs to extremes in either direction (obsessing over minutae then shrugging off some major flaws - XTC were also reportedly upset with Todd spending most of his time stoned, which probably explains his rather ADD-like behavior).

I do know people who performed on Jill Sobule's first record, which Rundgren produced. The word from those sessions was that Todd was more interested in tinkering with computers (he's a major tech head and something of a digital music pioneer), than producing the record. Ironically, Todd was brought in to provide some "star power" by the label, but it was so blandly produced and sold so badly that the label promptly dropped her, and Sobule left the music biz for 3 or four years before resurfacing with a very successful second album, produced Brad Jones, who she's worked with ever since.

Personally, I've always thought Todd was a better songwriter anyway, and even his own stuff has (IMHO) been somewhat erratatic, depending on where his head is at and how much he's distracted by technology. I will say that I've seen him perform a number of times, mostly in clubs, and I've always enjoyed his shows immensely (more than his records, actually).

Having said all that. I think the Rundgren mix is the better mix on Stagefright, myself...


Entered at Thu Feb 6 19:29:13 CET 2003 from c143wn2.wifi.halden.net (194.69.211.143)

Posted by:

jh

Tessie,

Always nice when youngsters discover this treasure. Hey - I go to Karlstad quite a few times every year, to visit the University there. Any other Band fans around that charming "city of the sun"? (jag är norrbaggen som driver den här websiten, btw :-)


Entered at Thu Feb 6 19:11:00 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Posted by:

Bill

DavidP: You're right - why 'fix' it at all. My hunch would be that the five or six just couldn't agree to trust Todd. I think it's safe to assume that Levon wouldn't have, if it's true that he chased Todd around the studio. Garth too would have had good reason to look elsewhere. Someone involved in the reissue of another Todd-at-Bearsville product, the Great Speckled Bird LP/CD, expressed disgust (albeit in hindsight) at the quality of Rundgren's work.

I will repeat my wish that some record company will do us all a favour and put the Johns mix and the Rundgren mix on one CD. That's what happened with the reissue of the first Traffic album, and also, I believe, the first Buffalo Springfield album. (Come to think of it, maybe they could even squeeze on the Band's own 'rough mix' too.)

By the way PeterV, are all three mixes in your missing-tapes article?


Entered at Thu Feb 6 18:43:10 CET 2003 from t5o955p72.telia.com (212.181.189.72)

Posted by:

Tessie

Location: Karlstad - Sweden

Subject: The Band

Hi I'm a seventeen year old girl from Sweden who has just discoverd The Band, thanks to my fathers recordcollection. I just want to say that if there is any other music that is more wonderful than The Bands I would really want to listen to it becaus anything that can overcome their music must be extraordinary! My favourite tune is The night they drove old dixie down, it's great! I also want to thank the members in The Band , including those who sadly isn't alive any moore for making this music and spreading it over the world, it makes my day brighter!


Entered at Thu Feb 6 15:03:55 CET 2003 from 223.64.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.64.223)

Posted by:

Dexy

Subject: Rolling Stone

There are a few references to The Band in the excellent Rolling Stone cover story on the lost/found Beatle tapes. The story is actually about the Let It Be sessions, and mentions To Kingdom Come and George's visits with the boys.


Entered at Thu Feb 6 13:05:57 CET 2003 from mcha-aj052.taconic.net (205.231.150.52)

Posted by:

Lil

Subject: tid-bits

Empty Now: The times, they are a-changin....

To echo Jan's sentiments, "Yes, please, Elliot".

John D: Gary Sinise?? Ooh! Can I sit in on the interview?? :-)

Garth and Maud: Happy belated anniversary! (My memory is not like it used to be). I love you both..lots!

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.


Entered at Thu Feb 6 12:40:15 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Posted by:

Empty Now

Subject: I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

The subject dont means i believe i get some Satan character. Life learnt me that every reconciliation attempt incoming from exterior often lead to the opposite effect.. The topic is really not of my business. I have great difficulties to post (my left arm is almost paralysed) and at long i have nothing to loose.

BWMWITennessee, BEG, Amanda, Jan,..........

A recent post of Ed reminded me of the next story i read by the past in Reader’s Digest

There was in a train compartment an old man, a young man, an old woman and a young smart girl.
The train went through a tunel, and in the darkness we then heard the sound of a kiss followed by the sound of a punch. When the train went out of the tunel
The Old woman thought “I hate this Girl, she punched the boy for an innocent kiss”
The Young Girl thought “I hate this Young Man, He preferred the Old Woman to me”
The Young man thought “I hate this Old man, he has the courage of kissing a girl at his age and me not”
And the Old Man, who was an Old Jolly Joker Felow knew hat happened, He kissed his own hand, and he punched this same hand

That’s exactly what happened in the GB. I love all the persons listed above, i had enough place to love The Band and many other people in real life. Everyone here knows what Pardon means. Sorry everybody.

And keep your eyes wide, The chance won't come again


Entered at Thu Feb 6 11:04:51 CET 2003 from du-tele3-186.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.186)

Posted by:

Peter Viney

Subject: TNTDODD Opera: Daily report

Ed: TNTDODD Opera- yes, dispensing with the horses will save all those animal rights protests. Pity, though. However, ticket agencies will be delighted with the Robert E. Lee on a steamboat as it helps with those Joan Baez-fan club Seniors bookings. The casting of Robbie as W.S. Walcott is inspired. I see the Medicine Show as the big opening scene – it’s carnival time - the news comes that war has started – W.S. Walcott seizes the moment, and without leaving his fairground barker / Carny role, he sets up a recruiting booth for volunteers – Virgil and his brother shuffle forward gawkily. W.S. Walcott pushes the paper across, ‘Just sign, here, son – I’ll personally swear that you’ll both be fine soldiers and come home with honour …” Virgil turns innocent eyes up to W.S. ‘You ain’t kiddin’ me, Mister?’ ‘You have my personal guarantee of your safety… just sign the paper …’
Now this is the technically hard bit. We get some of those stick on fake tooth gems that are a fad here, and hit W.S.’s front tooth with a laser, causing the gem to reflect like a mirror ball right round the hall as he says it.
The other question was whether we could switch Daniel Day Lewis to General Stoneman (played straight as Scorsese’s “butcher”) and Holly Berry to Mrs Caine? We’d not be quite sure about her ethnic origin on stage at first, and there’s a subplot where her brother Chuck turns up at the Caine farm (who we’d have no doubts about) – he’s a runaway slave. Virgil realises that Mrs Caine must be a runaway slave too (Virgin might be upstanding and honest, but isn’t necessarily a perceptive individual). It gets off us that slavery hook.


Entered at Thu Feb 6 10:29:56 CET 2003 from 64-80-240-30-access.surferz.net (64.80.240.30)

Posted by:

muffy

Location: still here ... so far

Subject: more name dropping

Yeah, but to how many people have any names been dropped at all -- let alone such a lot all at once? Hmmmm. This world is getting crypticker and crypticker. Tinier and tinier, too.

However, that being the case: Does anyone know if some of the tapes of Richard Manuel at The Getaway have a woman (namely, me) singing on them? (Since I can't afford to cover my rent let alone buy CD's, I haven't even had a chance to hear the Japanese release yet.) Let's just say it behooves me to get my hands on them if so, and I'd sure be one happy camper.

Innocent until proven guilty? What a concept! Careful there, Crabster. People will be calling you a radical for that kind of talk. Certainly, wanting to see the actual facts come out has gotten me into all kinds of trouble, so far.

And before finishing tonight's hit-and-run: Yes. It's Muffy aka Nicole R. aka Martha S. aka ... Well, you're getting the picture by now, aren't you? And I am pretty sure there's only one of that particular combination -- around here, at least.

One thing I do hope is that Lisa D. realizes how beautiful and talented she really is. (I heard it from Rick first, but must agree. One thing I did hear about, was his three children, y'see.) Thanks to those who've helped -- You know who you are.

(What, me wordy?)


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Posted by:

Ben Pike

Location: Cleveland Tx

John D, you nailed it. Simon's early Dylan spoof on "Parsley, Sage" may have gotten their fued going.... Hmmmm....Could it be that all the Civil War Buffs round these parts have never seen "2000 Maniacs?" Or maybe you just won't own up to it. Well, they are doing a sequel so get ready! Roz, come home!!


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Posted by:

Ed Voci

Location: Illinois

Subject: Peter Viney, TNTDODD

The expense of the Stoneman train raid scene can be managed. We don’t need horses, just Stoneman and a work crew. A few torn up and twisted rails, missing cross ties, etc. will do. The missing ties will be especially economical to stage. We really don't need a train wreck per se. We save that for TNTDODD: The Movie (did you see the spectacular train crash scene in "The Fugitive"? That's the benchmark for movie train wrecks that our movie will aim to surpass). As far as [the]Robert E. Lee or [ ]Robert E. Lee is concerned, we should avoid the controversy by staging the man waving at Mrs. Caine from the deck of the boat as it steams down a river past the Caine's farm. Good spot for a duet with REL and Mrs. C., later joined in by VC. So, get back to work and report in regularly.

Now, at the risk of starting an interminable thread, I offer the following proposed cast for TNTDODD: The Movie, which Martin Scorcese would direct. I have slightly expanded the cast and story line to meet Hollywood’s penchant for exaggeration, spectacle and whatever it takes to achieve a huge box office draw:

Virgil Caine = Levon Helm (Anyone but, is unthinkable)

Mrs. Caine = Holly Hunter

brother Caine = Kevin Bacon

Maj. Stoneman = Russell Crowe

Gen. Lee = Sean Connery

W.S. Wolcott = Robbie Robertson

Jake, the ferry worker = Jack Nicholson

Caines’ freed slaves = Denzel Washington, Sidney Potier, Harry Belafonte, Halle Berry

Jefferson Davis = Billy Bob Thorton

Abraham Lincoln = Daniel Day Lewis

John Wilkes Booth = Gary Busey

Jesse James = Dwight Yoakam

Giuseppe Garibaldi = Garth Hudson


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Pos