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The Band: Live at the Academy of Music 1971

Levon Helm: Ramble at the Ryman

The Band: Three of a Kind

Robbie Robertson: How to Become Clairvoyant

Garth Hudson Presents a Canadian Celebration of The Band

Levon Helm: Electric Dirt

Garth and Maud Hudson: Live at the Wolf

Pulse

Dirt Farmer

Elliot Landy's Woodstock Vision

The Band Guestbook

Welcome to The Band guestbook. If you have problems reading this page, see the answers to frequently asked questions about the guestbook.

You can add your own comments by signing the guestbook. Please behave and follow the rules of conduct.

If you are looking for previous entries or posters, try searching the guestbook archives.


Entered at Thu Apr 2 00:21:24 CEST 2015 from (166.137.126.114)

Posted by:

Sandra Mermella

Subject: The box set CD's

Hi Steve this is what I am referring to. The CDs packaging is just as exquisite as the original event. The four discs are contained in a book binder cover housing the CD "envelopes" as well as a copy of the Last Waltz guest welcome card. Also included are 36 pages of photos, liner notes, song and personnel listings, discographies and the like. Each binder is numbered and only 3,000 sets were pressed. The recording is a solid one. It's an unmixed soundboard, so even the released tracks have a slightly different flavour to them. Some portions contain a "hum" indicating that this might be from film footage but it doesn't intrude too badly. The Complete Last Waltz is for those of you who just couldn't be satisfied with a chopped version of The Band's last show.


Entered at Wed Apr 1 21:29:33 CEST 2015 from (24.222.133.194)

Posted by:

joe j

Subject: Whispering Pines

"He feels her presence like a phantom limb". Jeez, Sadavid. Might not be an original simile but it'll put a whole new perspective on that song fer sure.


Entered at Wed Apr 1 21:21:35 CEST 2015 from (92.18.180.33)

Posted by:

Solomon

Subject: Cynthia Lennon

R.I.P. Cynthia Lennon

Thanks for correcting the story for me Bill M. I knew you would spot April Fools' Day gag straight away.


Entered at Wed Apr 1 20:51:23 CEST 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Subject: down the rabbit hole: Leo in the pines

Bill M: Something in the timbre & technique of Matt Andersen’s “I’m On Fire” guitar work reminded me of Cockburn’s “Wondering Where the Lions Are.” Which led me to Mark Knopfler’s wonderful “Lions” (from the first Dire Straits album). Not a whole bunch of commonality between the two (apart from the name of the beast) – one song is about a young woman alone in the big city, and the other, I suppose, is about the ecstasy of thinkin’ ‘bout eternity. But I’ve long been struck by the sameness of “I’m wondering where the lions are” and “I’m thinking ‘bout the lions – what happened to the lions?”

In the Knopfler song, the young woman leaves her daily grind and rides the commuter train:

The evening paper is horror-torn
But there’s hope for later, Capricorn
Lucky stars give her just enough to get her home

Just enough what?
I’d always supposed it to mean the ‘hope’ that’s promised in the astrology column – and it might be a bit sarcastic, but in context I think it’s meant sympathetically (if the Daily Horoscope is what gets you through the night, you’re in dire straits indeed). But stars give light, and you can also take it in the sense of ‘it’s lucky the stars give her enough light so that she can make it home safely.’ Which has some logic, given the gathering darkness and the latent menace in the situation (‘a young woman alone . . .’).

The “just enough” made me think of “Whispering Pines”: “if only one star shines, that’s just enough to get inside.” I’ve always had trouble with that “get inside” – it makes no obvious sense, and I took it as a sort of shorthand for “get inside the situation,” to make sense of what’s going on. Possible, but not convincing.

If you take the phrase more literally, it could make sense if the fellow is outside in the dark and unable to find his way home (to get inside) unless he gets a little light to see by. This is also not terribly convincing – isn’t he inside his lonely room in the first place? Or should the “whispering pines, rising of the tide” have alerted us to the fact that he is now outdoors?

But the lovely thing about lyrics is that any number of meanings for a given word or passage can co-exist quite comfortably. “Whispering Pines” is more impressionist than realist anyway; it’s the mood that matters above all. For me it’s always been about a man whose One True Love has died. She could be merely lost (at sea?) but it seems too bleak even for that. The man is alone in a lonely room in an empty house, lost in the gloom / night / daze / haze / clouds, lost in the pines, in the pines, where the sunshine is a cold mockery. The only sounds are the mournful note of the foghorn and the cry of the gulls. He feels her presence like a phantom limb, only to wake from the dream to the darkness. Yet, in his despair, he hopes for hope. In the service of a lost cause, reaching to the clouds, looking through a haze, calling out to sea, he seeks the sight of some amazing grace – that the rainmaker will hear his call, that what once was lost may be found, that the light of a single star might reach him, that the life-giving water might once again weep from the heavens.

More or less.


Entered at Wed Apr 1 20:36:40 CEST 2015 from (166.137.126.114)

Posted by:

Sandra Mermella

Subject: The box set CD's

Loved watching the DVD of The Last Waltz and all the great talented musicians. Wish I could have been there!!!!! Buying the CD collection. Thank all of you must have been great memories !


Entered at Wed Apr 1 20:30:52 CEST 2015 from (68.171.246.159)

Posted by:

Bill M

Solomon: a few of the details are off, notably the year - and of course tha thought that Pennebaker had no idea. First, it wasn't a Hawks show in '64 but a Dylan / Hawks get-acquainted / reheasal in '65. Pennebaker came to Toronto as part of Dylan's entourage to check out the new potential recruits. As usual, Robbie tried to convince the new guy to take a razor to his amp to get the right guitar sound, but Bob knew it was all BS.


Entered at Wed Apr 1 14:34:16 CEST 2015 from (92.18.180.33)

Posted by:

Solomon

Web: My link

Subject: Levon and the Hawks

Recently D. A. Pennebaker revealed he had found a rare full 1964 concert film of Levon and the Hawks in his archive. He went on to say he threw it out back in 1995 because he didn't know who Levon and the Hawks were. Oh lordy!


Entered at Wed Apr 1 11:17:51 CEST 2015 from (94.118.96.6)

Posted by:

Peter V

My thoughts and hopes with Joni Mitchell, who according to BBC News just now is in Intensive Care inhospital.


Entered at Wed Apr 1 06:26:47 CEST 2015 from (68.196.242.28)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Fb video

second chorus - once he hit the second chorus, not verse. I typed verse in error. Forgive the bold lettering, was another error. Damn cell phone musta gav me brain damage, more errors all the time. Yesterday i told a friend, hey, we're coming into winter..... then twenty minutes later i shot video and called a teacher of mine whose name ended in blum, the same name, but ended it with berg. three fucking times. didn;t catch till editing...


Entered at Wed Apr 1 05:40:36 CEST 2015 from (68.196.242.28)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Richie Furay. Today.

a SUGGESTION - SOME OF YOU MAY WISH TO
Go to Facebook, and access the public group "Richie Furay Band - In Concert TBD"
After a recent short but hectic tour East over here, that followed another short but hectic tour in California, 70 or 71 year old Richie went home for about two days, then flew back here yesterday, for a Cd Release signing.

I missed his shows here, and also couldn;t make the performance tonight.
There is a clip of him doing a solo version of Kind Woman at Barnes & Noble today on the group page. It's uncharacteristically imperfect, till the second chorus. Understandably, the man is working really hard, even for a 50 year old.
The man is 70 or so, and working his ass off. Yet, once he hits that second verse, it becomes pure perfection, pure beauty. which is probably what he delivers for the whole song, or close to it, most of the time these days. the times i;ve seen him in the 2000s, that's how it was.


Entered at Wed Apr 1 03:00:12 CEST 2015 from (68.171.246.2)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: Garth with BaRK

sadavid: I guess I should remember every second of the show, but I don't. Something tells me there were two nights, and I went to the first, so the tape could've been from the second. There was an intermission (which I recall because I went backstage with a dying friend to say hello to Garth and Maud). Maybe Garth did just the second half, but it's difficult to imagine them dispensing with "Acadian Driftwood" in the early going. Maybe Garth switched to unmiked accordion for AD? Wish I could ask the friend, a big Band fan who had gone to see the TLW movie opening with me 30 years earlier.

As for Matt Andersen, it was his performance of "Ain't No Sunshine" on "The Vinyl Cafe" a few years ago that turned me onto him. Awesome version - much better than there merely impressive ones on YouTube.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 22:15:03 CEST 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Subject: good strong barking

Bill M: lucky you. This version really tickles me; there's a sinewy confidence in the vocals -- and in Ms. Edwards's fiddle -- that's very Bandian. But I think Mr. H. sat this one out?


Entered at Tue Mar 31 21:53:03 CEST 2015 from (68.232.68.198)

Posted by:

Bill M

Location: Tronno

sadavid: Thanks. Garth Hudson was BARK's guest keyboardist for the evening. The comments make it seem that that's the only recording from the evening to survive, which seems unlikely as the CBC, as noted, taped the whole thing (which I attended) and subsequently broadcasted it at least once.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 20:49:23 CEST 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: acadian driftwood washes up in Torontario

Bill M: this one's probably been posted before, but worth a listen even if.
It's what I was holding when I emerged from the Matt Andersen rabbit hole - for which, thanks.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 20:49:27 CEST 2015 from (86.169.200.214)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Thanks Bill M. Still into BARK,

Ian Tyson, 81! Still play Ian and Sylvia's greatest hits. 'Four Strong Winds' is a brilliant song.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 18:05:11 CEST 2015 from (68.232.68.198)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

Subject: Matt Andersen does Bruce Springsteen

Al E: sadavid's link led me to a couple of terrific versions of Bwuce's "I'm On Fire" by Matt Andersen, one of which is linked here. Dunc might appreciate the follow-on link to Andersen singing "Willie's Diamond Joe", which he'll know from the BARK version.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 18:01:09 CEST 2015 from (87.144.162.140)

Posted by:

Norbert

Subject: GB survival

Bill thanks ;-) Peter too.

On a serious note the GB survival: ‘Does this GB has a problem? Answer: ‘No. This GB has an opportunity!’

Anyway McKinsey has almost completed our GB mission and vision statement. However for their stakeholders SWOT matrix they have two survey questions left (to send to jh, tomorrow before 11.59pm Greenwich):

1) Have you ever dated a musician?

2) Do you cook to music?

Interim measurements for now:

- A post should at least contain 16 characters.

- New posters should be welcomed (not bullied or making fun of).

- Post free of bullshit.

To survive in future this GB will contain more and more graphics & animation, less text ……. at the end all text will disappear totally.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 17:51:07 CEST 2015 from (99.249.67.189)

Posted by:

GregD

Subject: Levon on guitar

It could also be Strawberry Wine,based on the date of the pictures, which appear to be from 1971. Levon of course also co-wrote it and they switched instruments on it, with Richard on drums.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 17:18:28 CEST 2015 from (72.73.121.247)

Posted by:

Far East Man

Location: Rockport, ME

Subject: Levon on guitar...

Wallsend - I'm thinking Jemima Surrender...I think he wrote the riff.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 16:56:20 CEST 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: guitar heroes on Vancouver Island

Bill M: Holger should get a medal, if he hasn't already . . . exciting news about the Burton / Garrett / Lee / Wilcox summit . . . I trolled the Inets for a taste, the only thing I could find was [My link], the good bit starts around 3:03 . . . .


Entered at Tue Mar 31 15:19:12 CEST 2015 from (68.232.68.198)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

The newsletter at the link tells of an upcoming live CD by James Burton, Amos Garrett, Albert Lee and David Wilcox. And a new one by Ian Tyson (who's now 81 - time flies).

Speaking of David Wilcox, on the weekend learned that that "O-Dough-Dee-O" song by the guy who sounds just like Wilcox is really "Budapest" by George Ezra. I love it nonetheless. And just this morning I learned that the one that sounds like early Robert Palmer with the Alan Bown Set is really Bruno Mars. Radio so often doesn't bother telling you what they're playing anymore.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 10:51:41 CEST 2015 from (92.18.198.53)

Posted by:

Solomon

Web: My link

Subject: TIDAL

It's been all over the news today: The first music streaming service that combines the best High Fidelity sound quality.I might try the one month free trial.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 08:28:03 CEST 2015 from (173.245.209.36)

Posted by:

BMGeorge

Location: Australia

Subject: Syria Mosque B & P

Adam

I'd like to volunteer to act as the Australian staging post for the Syria Mosque B&P. I've done this sort of thing many times. Many years ago my friend John Eylander and I created the "After the Waltz" set you can find on the discography on this site and distributed it this way.

Keep up the wonderful work.

George


Entered at Tue Mar 31 06:10:34 CEST 2015 from (32.216.242.116)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: REM

Al Edge, I quite enjoyed your REM post. REM holds a place near and dear to my heart, as they essentially sprouted during my college years. When I was a freshman they were not yet mainstream and the place where I first heard them, was on my college's radio station where some of my friends had overnight DJ rotations.

By my senior year they were playing arenas, and it was truly something to see a band rise from relative obscurity to the big leagues.

I understand the reasons for possibly dismissing the Chronic Town EP as not necessarily essential, and moving right on to Murmur, but I can't agree, as I feel it is just as essential in getting to know the music, attitude, and tone they projected. In fact the song 'Carnival of Sorts (Box Cars)' remains as essential to me in understanding and appreciating REM, as 'Tears of Rage' rates as essential to understanding and appreciating the music of The Band. Plus 'Box Cars' is still one of the rare songs from those days that I can still manage to crank out on the guitar. ;-)

I've collected most of the REM releases over the years, and have everything on vinyl up until Document. After that, I switched over to CD, and while there are several things that I enjoy from all phases of their career, it's the first batch of albums that seem more special in some way.

And don't despair completely about the youth of today. My teenage daughters both primarily listen to iTunes sourced music on portable devices out of convenience, but I was playing some music for one of my daughters recently and I asked her if she wanted to listen to a CD or and LP. Her response was that she would rather play the record (vinyl) because it was "more fun". Another one of my daughter's friends asked for a turntable for a Christmas present this past holiday season.

So while I used to be seen as some sort of dinosaur, (even by people in my own age group), I seem to have acquired some sort of cachet as an aging hipster among the youths who know me, by basically doing "nothing", and never ditching my vinyl collection.

Really enjoyed the REM post, and thanks for spurring some memories!

Wallsend, my guess for Levon on Tele would be 'Strawberry Wine' or 'Look Out Cleveland'.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 06:05:43 CEST 2015 from (108.36.197.190)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Subject: The Amen Break

Described as "The Wilhelm Scream" of music.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 05:49:52 CEST 2015 from (58.104.26.21)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Does anyone know what song The Band performed with Levon playing a Telecaster?


Entered at Tue Mar 31 05:36:43 CEST 2015 from (67.84.79.139)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

This is a nice, cooperative, international development. With licking involved.


Entered at Tue Mar 31 01:20:27 CEST 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

No. I want to make it clear that I am not accepting money for anything. We are fans sharing music, music that is not possible for us to buy officially.

We have the standard trading "Blanks & Postage" system. Everyone in the U.S. will mail out an envelope, and inside that is my return envelope, stamped to mail back, addresses written out, and 1cdr/1dvdr included for me to burn on. This makes it as easy as possible for me to get it, and quickly send it right back out.

Anyone not in the U.S., we will try to arrange for one person in each country to receive the B+P, and then that person can then receive B+Ps and make copies for anyone else in their country.


Entered at Mon Mar 30 23:53:08 CEST 2015 from (24.222.133.194)

Posted by:

joe j

Subject: Adam

Can I just email you $20 or whatever?


Entered at Mon Mar 30 22:26:50 CEST 2015 from (68.232.68.198)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

Norbert: The link's to another highly prized drum beat - from "Automatic Man" by Brahman, featuring drummer Duris Maxwell. A twice-removed Band link in that organist Robbie King (whose song this is) and guitarist Ed Patterson were both doing the Ontario circuit with the Hawks, perhaps most notably the Good Shepherds (who played at JT's father's Concord Tavern).


Entered at Mon Mar 30 19:33:53 CEST 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Adam-offer

What an incredibly kind and generous offer that I'd love to have.Thanks Adam! But,how would I get you my address? Or email? here we go again.


Entered at Mon Mar 30 19:22:33 CEST 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: The Band from Nashville

I was in HMV this morning, picking up the ecstatically reviewed "Carrie & Lowell" by Sufjan Stevens. As ever, you can buy a selected CD or DVD off the counter for £2.99 with any full-price purchase, and today they had "Sounds Like Nashville" I glanced and it looked a nice compilation for the car. When I got home I noticed those esteemed Tennessee recording stars "The Band" were on Track 5, Long Black Veil. It's "From The Album" according to the notes, "Bob Dylan's backing group, The Band, step forward with their emotive cover of Lefty Frizell's Long Black Veil."

I guess "Nashville" is fair for Marijohn Wilkins and Danny Dill, but I might have mentioned them. And Robbie did get to record in Nashville for Blonde on Blonde.


Entered at Mon Mar 30 19:08:04 CEST 2015 from (87.144.162.140)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Germany
Web: My link

Subject: Adam & The Amen Break

Adam, great thank you sir!

The Amen Break; the story of the most famous drum solo in history ever: covered 1500 times!

The Amen Break is a 5.2 second (4 bar) drum solo of 16 beats, performed by Gregory Coleman in The Winstons’ song "Amen, Brother" in the 1960s. It was released as a B-side..... It has been covered more than 1500 times! “Neither the performer, drummer G. C. Coleman, nor the copyright owner Richard L. Spencer have ever received any royalties or clearance fees for the use of the sample, nor has either sought royalties.” Spencer is 72 now and has cancer (some British DJ’s try to raise money though).....

Frosties: I almost let it slip, but for what it’s worth …this morning, I received an email regarding The Band’s Frosties ad. It claims to be from the retired Kellogg’s archivist from up on Battle Creek MI. He lives in an elderly home now and isn’t allowed out anymore. In the 1960s there were a wide range of new product introductions he stated and although his memory shrinks he still has his good moments and then he remembers the Frosties, Froot Loops, Apple Jacks, Frosted Mini-Wheats, Bran Buds and the Pop-Tarts with tears in his eyes....

Anyway just before he retired, he had taken some of the Kellogg’s archive with him home (“to save it from the claws of the shredder”). His wife died more than twenty years ago, from his five children only one survived and she doesn’t speak to him anymore.... The only person he is in contact with is his hardened older sister Mary Lou, who was never married and lives alone in a sub south of Battle Creek. She visits him ones every year and she has taken over his beloved Kellogg’s world. This Wednesday her annual visit is due and she will bring along some 'critical documents' regarding The Band’s Frosties ad connection....


Entered at Mon Mar 30 18:47:48 CEST 2015 from (92.18.218.139)

Posted by:

Toffee

Subject: Torrents

I did download a Band torrent once that was over 1GB in size. The problem was who ever made the torrent must have been a huge Robbie fan because it had more Robbie videos and solo appearances than Band stuff. I did do my duty and seed it for all Band fans all over the world.


Entered at Mon Mar 30 17:48:28 CEST 2015 from (32.216.242.116)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: B&P

Adam, Thanks for the offer that you've made. I would also be interested when the time comes. I like the idea of Blanks & Postage.

Years ago I tried bit torrent for live shows (never officially released stuff) but I got caught up in the idea that you would have to seed whatever you had downloaded, which took a lot of time, so that by the time the file was done, in many cases I had lost interest in actually listening to whatever it was I had downloaded. As a result, it became more about collecting files rather than actually listening to them. And in many cases the sound quality from audience sourced "field recordings" was subpar, so I ended up stopping.

One of the bands I used to collect live recordings from was Wilco, as they were very taper friendly, and thus many shows exist for them. But once Wilco released a couple of excellent live albums on their own, I found that the sound quality of the official stuff was so much better, that I don't go back to the audience sourced stuff very often.

But the Syria Mosque show by The Band sounds very appealing, and captures a very special time in their trajectory, that doessn't seem to be adequately represented by official releases at this time, so it's definitely something to look forward to.

Thanks Bro!


Entered at Mon Mar 30 15:57:48 CEST 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Pat B's sickie

You get all the luck mate. Not only did you get to see them but you also manage to get intimate with a strange woman.

Okay, so the downside is she looked a bit like me. Still, its better than my own vomit covered encounter which was with a man in a raincoat on a bumpy flight back from the Isle of Man.

:-0)


Entered at Mon Mar 30 14:04:22 CEST 2015 from (65.93.116.167)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Adam: Good solution.


Entered at Mon Mar 30 13:45:51 CEST 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

That's a wonderful idea, Peter. I was thinking along the same lines.


Entered at Mon Mar 30 10:25:11 CEST 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Jeff, if Google are interested, I can sell them Tower Bridge in London for £2 million, though it'll have to be cash in used unmarked tenners.


Entered at Mon Mar 30 10:17:56 CEST 2015 from (67.87.216.25)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

We've all been googlee googled.

Even a finacial/legal wiz would need a fucking scorecard, ' Google buying Spotify for 4.1 billion dollars.. Hey, if it was 4.1 billion anything, even peanuts, that's a lot.


Entered at Mon Mar 30 08:36:30 CEST 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Adam, one possibility, given massive trans-Arlantic postal charges by airmail, is that I could act as a staging post. i.e. I could send you a CDR / DVD and envelope and pay your postage by paypal. Then I could burn the 3 or 4 UK ones here and send them on.


Entered at Mon Mar 30 05:49:41 CEST 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

*But remember! Sorry


Entered at Mon Mar 30 05:48:23 CEST 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Ok, so anyone in the U.S. can do the standard trading B+P with stamps. Those outside the country can just send my return envelope with 1cdr and 1dvdr to burn on. I'll cover the shipping back, if you want to paypal me that you're more then welcome.

ut remember, it's not finished yet. I'm consulting with a great audio guy friend of mine before I finish polishing it up. Just to be clear to anyone official, this is NOT for sale/profit/bootlegging and is for fans who buy the official releases and support the artists.

I'll say when it's finished, and then everyone can email me.


Entered at Mon Mar 30 03:17:12 CEST 2015 from (68.171.246.133)

Posted by:

Bill M

Adam: A grand gesture on your part. I'd like one too, and hope this postage barrier can be worked through. Do they still have International Reply Coupons like they did 40 years ago?


Entered at Mon Mar 30 01:31:39 CEST 2015 from (65.93.116.167)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

An acceptable notion, Adam, provided you live in the U.S., as I assume you do. Putting -- say, Canadian postage on the inside envelope might not amuse the U.S. postal agency. So, Plan B would be . . . what?


Entered at Sun Mar 29 23:20:18 CEST 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Ok guys, I think maybe we can set up what is called "Blanks & Postage" in the trader communities. That means you mail me an envelope, and inside that is another envelope already stamped to send back, along with 1 CDr and 1 DVDr. I get these in the mail, burn the material with the media you sent with, and send it on back. How does that sound? I have to complete it first, but we can do it that way.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 22:18:42 CEST 2015 from (65.93.116.167)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Web: My link

Subject: Richard's scholarship fund

Wallsend: Above link should assist you.

I'd like to be added to Adam's list. Will happily pay costs thereof.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 22:14:12 CEST 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Adam

I'd love to have one too, Adam. You'll let us know when it's done, how we can contact you and reimburse you?


Entered at Sun Mar 29 21:51:48 CEST 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Adam, put me down for one. Presumably email?


Entered at Sun Mar 29 21:31:11 CEST 2015 from (58.104.5.203)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

I wonder if anyone here knows the contact details of the people organising this scholarship in Richard's name. I wouldn't mind kicking in a few dollars given the listening pleasure The Band has given me over all these years.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 20:54:05 CEST 2015 from (108.36.197.190)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Location: Technologically impaired

Subject: um, ouch...

This dinosaur double posted. At least I properly addressed the second one to patron of the arts, Adam.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 20:51:17 CEST 2015 from (108.36.197.190)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Location: by the pond

Subject: Syria Mosque

Hey hey Adam, On this warm springlike afternoon, I put my powerful little Bose computer speakers on a headphone extension cord and placed them on the kitchen window sill. While doing my unfavorite task, washing the dishes, I am so enjoying your labor of love. And when I take a break and visit my cigar out on the deck, this auditory treat follows me. Thank you SO much, man ! I'd heard an awful version of this years ago, but what a delight to hear what you've done with it!


Entered at Sun Mar 29 20:50:03 CEST 2015 from (108.36.197.190)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Location: by the pond

Subject: Syria Mosque

On this warm springlike afternoon, I put my powerful little Bose computer speakers on a headphone extension cord and placed them on the kitchen window sill. While doing my unfavorite task, washing the dishes, I am so enjoying your labor of love. And when I take a break and visit my cigar out on the deck, this auditory treat follows me. Thank you SO much, man ! I'd heard an awful version of this years ago, but what a delight to hear what you've done with it!


Entered at Sun Mar 29 20:26:26 CEST 2015 from (108.41.170.168)

Posted by:

Joan

Subject: Adam

Adam I would love to have a copy just let me know what is going to cost postage and other shipping costs. My email address is as follows motus2 aterolsdotcom. Thank you in advance. You are doing amazing work


Entered at Sun Mar 29 20:18:35 CEST 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Al E, there was someone like you sitting next to me at that show. Mouth agape, watching in awe, tears welling. Then she threw up on me!


Entered at Sun Mar 29 19:26:46 CEST 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Frosties

Also the word "Frosties" has to be pronounced with a Billy Connelly style Glaswegian accent or else it doesn't work.

Dunc is best to advise on this but it's kind of like "Frurrsties". Basically the short 'o' is replaced by a long drawn out 'urr"

Over to you Dunc.

:-0)

BTW Adam - I'll be all over it mate - whatever it cots!! You little belter you!!

:-0)


Entered at Sun Mar 29 19:13:36 CEST 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Frosties are Kelloggs Cornflakes with a sugar coating. It's just the UK & European name for Frosted Flakes.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 18:05:36 CEST 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Al, you're really going to flip out when you hear this. I've been working on improving the sound of Syria Mosque 1970. It's a one track only live mix... we can't remix anything. But with careful EQ work, you can enhance the bass, raise the mids (which is most important - all of the keyboard, piano, guitar work is much more present), and the highs. Adjust some of the volume problems, etc. It's going to sound better. And I'll be glad to mail out copies to anyone here who wants it.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 17:22:45 CEST 2015 from (108.36.197.190)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Subject: Norbert's Mysteries

When I read the lyrics to the Frosties commercial, I thought they sounded very familiar. I went to YouTube and searched "snap, crackle, pop old rice krispies commercial". It's the same one I remember as a child, except that they say Rice Krispies instead of Frosties. I tried searching the same title, except substituting the name frosties. Found nothing.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 16:25:26 CEST 2015 from (76.69.46.166)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Serial cereals

Norbert: What were Frosties? I am aware of the 'snap, crackle,pop' standard and characters for Kellogg's Rice Crispies. I am aware of the Kellogg's Frosted Flakes (Tony the Tiger was the face of this brand). I am not aware of Frosties? If you have further information on this and related Levon and the Hawks ad, please inform? Thanks


Entered at Sun Mar 29 14:40:07 CEST 2015 from (86.169.200.214)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Weather

Hey North West Coaster, I've had a two week summer holiday in Helsinki. Great weather with the whole nation washing their carpets outside down at the docks!

Bought a Roary Gallagher colllection in a great wee CD shop.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 13:32:46 CEST 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Subject: The Band lost's Frosties (1963)

In my comprehensive Band Excel spreadsheet, under JS448, there is a grey field with no name;

A right mouse click leads to a quadrant of four cells -- click on MYSTERIES (red field under left) -- 1963 -- LEVON AND THE HAWKS -- FINANCE -- COMMERCIALS -- TO CHECK -- and finaly hit: THE LOST ADD:

Now there is a wider numeric field with eight names : Frosties, Bruce Bruno, Jerry Penfound, Rick Danko, Levon Helm, Richard Manuel, Garth Hudson and Robbie Robertson.

Underneath it is a text field:

“On the WWW hovers this stubbornly romur; There is a commercial made by the Band in October of 1963. It ran in several countries and under the condition that they would not be identified as The Band playing. Back then, "selling out" was considered a deadly sin among rockers. But they needed money. It probably helps that the commercial was so bad it was rarely seen.”

Here it is:

"Snap, what a happy sound/ Snap is the happiest sound I found

You may clap, rap, tap, slap, but Snap makes the world go round

Snap, crackle, pop – Frosties!"

Crackle: "I say it's Crackle, the frosty sound/ You gotta have Crackle or the clock's not wound

Geese cackle, feathers tickle, belts buckle, beets pickle, but Crackle makes the world go round

Snap, crackle, pop – Frosties!"

Pop: "I insist that Pop's the sound/ The best is missed unless Pop's around

You can't stop hoppin' when the cereal's poppin'/ Pop makes the world go round/ Snap, crackle, pop – Frosties!"

Not to start a new feud here, but I’m just curious who wrote this?


Entered at Sun Mar 29 13:09:43 CEST 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Hey NW Coaster

It's pissing down here too with what sounds like a force 8!!!

:-0)


Entered at Sun Mar 29 13:07:38 CEST 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Come to think of it P...

My snatches of Nat King Cole, Peggy lee, Frank Sinatra and Leapy Lee look a bit threadbare now I've just had a quick look!!

:-0)

And as you say P, we should be far more tolerant and understanding of a Magpie's fanatic than any more normal soul I guess

:-0)


Entered at Sun Mar 29 13:07:19 CEST 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Buckets of Rain

I wouldn't worry too much about Scandinavia. It's like that on the South Coast now, so either it moved our way or there's just a lot of it!


Entered at Sun Mar 29 12:45:59 CEST 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Where I'd cut him a bit of slack (apart from sympathy with anyone who's had to support Newcastle United over the last 20 years) is this. I just thought about a Glen Miller CD we bought years ago. It sounds great and it's the music my mum loved. But while I enjoy Glen Miller, I haven't got a clue on the chronology, and only the vague idea of the comparative hit status of tracks. There is such a huge amount of recorded music out there, though of course there's also tons of easily accessible information too if you want to dig deeper.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 12:43:20 CEST 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Expecting rain

Subject: You don't need a weatherman to tell you when the wind blows- no, because we have Dunc here!

The most impudence poster here is Dunc from Scotland. Let's take his latest post: "Yesterday was a horrendous day. Cold and sheet rain." The thing is that the Scottish weather will hit Scandinavian coast always 24 hours later. Dunc's posts make me nervous. I shut all the windows and doors and wait for the worst.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 12:42:22 CEST 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: THE BAND

I've only been listening to one thing lately. Thanks to Pete who copied me in as soon as he saw the gap in my collection. And I'm sure you don't need me to elaborate on what it is.

For me it is such an incredible piece of listening I simply don't want to - by my own weird sensibilities - tarnish it or detract from it in any way, shape of form by listening to anything else at all just now.

Each listen brings tears to my eyes as I hear those matchless vocals. No disrespect to Levon but because his vocal delivery remained intact and was even quality after his illness/operation, it has been the emotion wrapped qualities of Rick and Richard's vocals that have beguiled and enchanted me on this recording. Levon is merely delivering in the way he always has done but the subsequent lessening of quality in Rick and Richard's outputs as time wore on is making me savour so much what their deliveries on this record are providing.

When you throw in the absurdly incredible song quality, the peerless musicianship from Levon's punch drumming to Robbie's outrageous guitar intricacy, the magical background piano rides of er hmmph...Garth and Richard, Rick's interloping bass precision then it's little wonder after all these decades being denied these delights alive and kicking that I simply cannot keep away.

I only ever had two opportunities to see our heroes in their original form - IOW in 1970 and Albert hall in 1971. I missed both. Both were down in Pete and Roger's neck of the woods and there were good reasons why I couldn't make it on both occasions.

Of course, I regret not going like crazy but I refuse to beat myself up about it. Yet if there's some things you wish you'd done differently then for me going to at least one of those performances but especially '71 would sure be one of them. I never made it to Rome in '77 for Liverpool's first European Cup - again with good reason. But 'looking back missing 'summer '71 at the Albert Hall even comes above that. And as Dunc, Rog, Pete, Fred and kev all know that really does speak volumes.

So I read yet another of Pat's wonderful insights about how he was blown away as he saw them in '69 switching instruments like kids swap comics and I take immense joy from it and I close my eyes and hear Rick informing us that 'we're still one and the same, just you and me' and I swear I'm there alongside Pat. Mouth ajar. Watching in awe. Tears of joy welling.

:-0)


Entered at Sun Mar 29 12:09:26 CEST 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Striking a chord

It's a difficult one in one sense Pete. I mean some folks don't want to have things complicated. They just want the easily accessible samples done for them without the bother of exploring an artist. It's fair enough. It's their prerogative. I guess to an extent we've all done it at one time or another.

In this instance, however, the reason I felt compelled to dive in and sound off was the almost contemptuous way he was regarding what will always rank for me as a major artist in such a throwaway fashion as if they were Westlife whilst at the same time seeming to dismiss the way us arl arses used to acquire our music. And all the time celebrating the ease of the MP3 age where you can cherry pick at will.

:-0)


Entered at Sun Mar 29 11:55:48 CEST 2015 from (86.169.200.214)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Yesterday

Yesterday was a horrendous day. Cold and sheet rain. For the first time in many years I don't have a link to a youth football team, which makes you get out on a Saturday. I spent the afternoon playing albums.

Seen many crazy drunks. But in the past you didn't have to watch yourself on you tube.

Interesting post, Al. But I've read (including links on this site) that's a fundemental difference in the way the younger generations collect. Also, you might find if what I've read is true, that one day in the future he'll dump all the REM.

I was a colector, but I was a careless collector. I got Melody Maker every week, but it's only in the last twenty years I've read extensively on music.

I spent too much time on football, Al.

Also, I think my collecting suffered maybe because of too Catholic tastes - really like too many genres of music, but it's all good quality.

I'm fascinated by hearing about the big collections. I think Peter posted that he has everything he has collected a couple of years back. I really regret giving the singles away many years ago. I enjoyed looking at Jimmy Page's collection on You Tube, Although I'm not a Zep fan, I admired the fact he was still genuinely interested in music.

Retirement has given me the chance to take time with music and listen closely. I played several Band albums in a row recently, focusing on garth, hence my question to Pat. I know he's a genius, but because I'm not musician I want to know what makes him a genius.

Recently played all 17 Tom waits albums in a row. Brilliant. But there are gaps.

Away to my two year old grandson's football. Start them young up here.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 11:13:41 CEST 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

That hit a chord, Al. So often bands are reduced to their greatest hits … in fact one of the efforts of Toppermost is to get beyond the greatest hits, and some posters skip the best-known ones altogether. I don't because they're still vital to the story. But when you're in Tesco or Sainsburys next, pick up one of the "Bob Dylan Best of" compilations that Columbia are dropping into the supermarkets for £3 or £4. All you need to know about Dylan on a single CD? Really?


Entered at Sun Mar 29 11:11:04 CEST 2015 from (219.89.46.52)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: ungainly example of the instrument switch

I think Robbie was a bit flustered after the Evangeline/LW Suite song.


Entered at Sun Mar 29 10:02:12 CEST 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: REM and musical appreciation

Band link - they were likened to The Band by 'Q' magazine at the time of the marvellous Life's Rich Pageant which is what whetted the seeds of my subsequent passion for them.

:-0)

Anyroad, so I thought I'd post on here a response I've just done on an LFC site to a youngish fella who had discovered REM via MP3 downloads and was asking about them but at the same time was lampooning anybody who was stupid enough to purchase one of their 'CD's'. He thought the concept of vinyl albums was so archaic as to not warrant a second thought.

And so, feeling a mite irked, I wrote this impromptu response. I can't recall if anyone else but David P is into REM but the essence of what I wrote I think holds true for any artist of any quality.

""I feel like a bit of an anachronism reading your posts mate!!

I'd guess I'm around 10-15 years older than your arl fella to give you some context. So please take what I'm about to say in the right spirit.

Got to say I find it absolutely horrific to read the manner in which you go about exploring a band, nay a musical bedrock, such as REM. That's not to say what you're doing is wrong but from where I stand it just seems utterly ridiculous and self-defeating.

A group such as REM evolves over many years. To cherry pick songs from right across their 30 year long career is fine as an opening gambit but in reality it gives you no sense whatsoever of what they're actually about as an artistic entity. For me it's a lazy and shallow approach to music listening and simply smacks of a desperation for instant gratification.

There's only one way to begin listening to REM. As with any band who have had a musical career worthy of the name with REM you simply have to start at the beginning.

Chronic Town was their first recording. It was an EP and whilst a good indicator of what was to come I'd not class it as essential. Personally, I'd skip it for their debut album Murmur.

Murmur arguably still remains their finest recording. It perhaps lacks the maturity and later sophistication and commercial attractions of Out of Time and Automatic yet remains so startlingly inventive and innovative and with such amazing songs it still demands to be played front to back some 30 odd years on. It is a kind of hybrid crossover. It straddles a line between punk/garage band simplicity and genuine quality artistic songwriting/performing that few bands if any from the era can match and for me none have surpassed. And I include Costello and Weller in that.

From there you have a succession of absolutely cracking albums each of which borrow from the one preceeding yet mark out a career development which few bands come close to matching - Reckoning, Fables, Pageant, Document, Green by which time the secret of their majesty was out and culminated in their worldwide acclaim and the release of Out of Time and Automatic. At that point I think it could be safely said their development as artists ceased. Whilst releasing albums from then on which were always going to be 'decent' simply because of their qualities as artists the albums were never 'vital' as their opening onslaught of EIGHT truly outstanding recordings.

So there you go. You opened the thread and that's my fourpennyworth. Clearly there must have been a need inside me to do a piece on REM so it might as well be here as anywhere, I guess.

May I just say, though, the manner in which you seem to be going about acquiring an artist's music is for me no more than playing at it. By all means have your MP3 collections but fer fuck sake when you hit on any artist of quality at least afford them a modicum of respect and explore how they came to cut a piece of music that so happened to appeal to your particular sensibilities in the first place.

Oh - and good exploring yer geordie twat!!!

:-0)""

Seems from his response he took it all in good spirit.

:-0)


Entered at Sat Mar 28 21:04:55 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: pa
Web: My link

Subject: Billie Holiday

interesting read


Entered at Sat Mar 28 21:01:29 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Thanks Joan

I think I got the link I need,but most kind of you-I'd still be hesitant-my Internet thing!


Entered at Sat Mar 28 18:42:59 CET 2015 from (108.41.170.168)

Posted by:

Joan

Subject: Jed, Adam?

As I learned here you can give your email address by writing it out and it will be less likely to be scanned or used by somebody unauthorized. Mine would be motus2aterolsdotcom. Don't know if somebody had already answered this but in not here it is


Entered at Sat Mar 28 17:35:49 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

Al E, here is a rather ungainly example of the instrument switch. Richard is standing at the piano when the song starts. He rushes back to the organ and Garth wends his way to the piano.


Entered at Sat Mar 28 17:32:20 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Looking at us all at the computer of a dank wet Saturday afternoon, it makes me think about when "International break" started in football. Surely in the old days you just squeezed in the international between a Division One (then) game on Wednesday and an FA Cup replay the following Tuesday? Grumble. And half the team probably got pissed the night before and smoked two cigarettes at half time.

I must say that last night (England v Lithuania) had me yawning and wandering off to make a cup of tea - not because anyone played badly, but it was just inevitability from the first kick.


Entered at Sat Mar 28 17:29:44 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Al E, to expand on Adam's post (btw, great call on Caledonia Mission, Adam), the first time I saw the boys in 69, some of them changed instruments every couple of songs. Richard played piano mostly but spent time on the organ and drums. Levon played mandolin and guitar. Garth played piano, accordion and sax. Rick played fiddle. With all the different voices trading lyrics and harmonizing, the whole thing was quite mind-blowing.

Later I saw Levon play bass.

As the years went by, they did that less and less.


Entered at Sat Mar 28 17:26:45 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

My piano tuner (now passed) was actually called Jock, and I believe his dance band days stretched back to circa 1950- definitely big ballrooms and large band stuff. Many tales of fisticuffs.

My last five played albums (though really “Duets” would be three times in two days).:

Van Morrison Duets

Sam Lee & Friends: The Fade in Time – actually pretty heavy going. It’s like a traditional folk Zappa or Beefheart at first listen through. Not very “accessible” in spite of good reviews, but I’ll persevere.

Sticks & Stones: The Sue Label Story – disc one.

Tracker: Mark Knopfler.

Respect: Jimmy Smith (1967 LP)

Interestingly we both have Van Morrison, and "Respect" is on Otis Blue as well as (obviously) on Jimmy Smith's "Respect" album.


Entered at Sat Mar 28 17:10:25 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Web: My link

Subject: Dunc

Dunc - you might enjoy this. Standard "post skinful" walking in Liverpool and Glasgow!!!

And no - it isn't me though it does look suspiciously like a young fella who sits in fron of us at the match. I love the way the lads filming it can't control their laughins halway through. Gets me each time I watch it.

:-0)


Entered at Sat Mar 28 17:07:07 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Youtube
Web: My link

Subject: Music I listen to right now.....

Youtube: Elmore James - Dust my broom (link). Loud on my litle great Bose PC table speakes, we're swinging along around the table, just for dinner ...... Saturday evening in Germany ;-).


Entered at Sat Mar 28 16:43:36 CET 2015 from (86.169.200.214)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Last five albums

What's the last five albums you have played. Here's mine.

The Who Live at Leeds

Van Morrison Astral Weeks

Tom Waits Rain Dogs

Maura O'Connell first album

Otis Redding sings soul Otis Blue

A truly Catholic taste!


Entered at Sat Mar 28 16:36:55 CET 2015 from (86.169.200.214)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Thanks

Thanks, Adam.

Thanks, Wallsend. Great read, well written article.

Enjoyable tale, Peter. Dancing was huge in Glasgow. And as we discussed several years ago on the GB, if a band was to break Scotland, the music had to be able to be danced to.


Entered at Sat Mar 28 15:32:10 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Joining dots............................................... :-0)

Never been my strongest suit....

:-0)

It's all slotted together now though. Thanks to Pat and Adam [and Pete with the Victoria Wood comment] for bearing with me. If I tell you that the missing piece of the jigsaw concerned the distinction between upright and mini grand piano, promise to go easy on me! Better late than never - and when all's said and done it did help generate some amazing posting.

:-0)


Entered at Sat Mar 28 14:45:40 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Web: My link

Here is photographic evidence of "Caledonia Mission" 1969!


Entered at Sat Mar 28 14:43:19 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

02. Name a song Garth DID NOT play piano on (studio version), but DID live. I think this one might be too obscure, so I'll give it away. The answer is "Caledonia Mission" live 1969! The bootlegs reveal that for this, Garth played piano (which he did not in the studio - John Simon did, as Pat already noted), Richard played drums and Levon played acoustic guitar (as they both did on the studio version).


Entered at Sat Mar 28 14:39:11 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Al - thanks so much for your appreciation, all you guys! Garth and Richard would just stand up and switch spots on stage to swap piano/organ duties. In the 4 Syria Mosque video tracks, you can barely see Garth on piano during TTK. It seemed to be a rule during the OQ that any film footage of a song with Garth on piano, could not end up with ANY shots of him actually playing! Although you can see him there playing in The Weight from Isle Of Wight 1969.

As for how I know some of this, it just comes from: 1) being completely in love and obsessed with The Band's music, 2) listening to every detail in the recordings, and 3) repeat. lol.


Entered at Sat Mar 28 13:56:19 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Edge :-0)

Subject: Pittsburgh

Jed - I think I'm correct in saying it is one and the same. And boy do we give thanks to Adam for it.

The thing is the more I listen to it the more in awe I become of the five musicians who created what is an hour of musical perfection. Mere words cannot do it or them the remotest justice.

:-0)


Entered at Sat Mar 28 13:10:29 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Wallsend

Thanks for the links-I will send to my friend to see what he can do.Since I never understood bit torrent,how is the sound in the link you sent any different?Also,I saw Edge submitted the Pittsburgh show- is it the one linked here and recently remastered by Adam?


Entered at Sat Mar 28 11:49:50 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Johannas contd :-0)

Great little tale Pete.

Pat: Just to refine a bit further my own understanding following all the great insight you've already provided. And apologies in advance if it's so feckin obvious and it's just me being a bit tup.

Perhaps, too, it's one for Adam given the insight he's acquired.

Question is this - when for example Garth was performing that wonderful background accompaniment right through Time To Kill was he doing it on his own piano alongside his organ? Or did his organ have a piano function that is almost undetectable as electric piano? Or was he actually stooping down playing Richard's piano whilst Richard was bobbing about making it look as if Richard was playing?

:-0)

I know I'm gonna get feckin marmalized for this aren't I?

Ah well, curiosity killed the cat huh?

:-0)


Entered at Sat Mar 28 10:33:20 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Joannas

What a great piece by Bill Payne on Richard Manuel’s piano. I’d wondered about transporting pianos compared to booking one. In the 60s every concert hall would have had a resident Steinway. I hadn’t realized until the article how different they could be. Of course, transporting a piano, even a baby grand, is a nightmare. We saw a lunchtime concert on the harpsichord, and the player had five or six in the small theatre with 100 of us in the audience. I would have thought transport costs would have wiped out any possibility of breaking even on the one person concert, even though I’d assume he could do the necessary tuning after transport himself.

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, when I did lights on summer shows, we had symphony concerts on Sundays, and on Saturday nights the variety show Steinway had to be taken off into the wings, and the identical symphony one brought on, and they’d re-tune after moving them 10 yards. We stage hands used to wonder why they didn’t just use the same one. The old piano tuner who used to tune our upright for the kids used to do the local symphony one too, and he told me that you either tuned a piano for classical (at British concert pitch … apparently different from German concert pitch!) or “dance band” and that for a “dance band” you tuned slightly sharp. Which is why the concert hall had two. He was a Glaswegian who would regale me with tales of his own days in dance bands in the early 1950s which would have me crying with laughter.

I also thought it over expensive for (say) Victoria Wood to cart her white grand piano around the country to put next to existing Steinways in concert halls.

After Bill Payne’s fascinating piece, I finally understand!


Entered at Sat Mar 28 09:51:57 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Bill Payne article

Fascinating that. Cheers Wallsend!

Who'd a thunk it.

Funnily enough the bit that resonated most was the 94 year old music store owner who still plays his clarinet and sax every day!!!

What a nice easily digested writer Bill Payne is too.

:-0)


Entered at Sat Mar 28 08:58:19 CET 2015 from (58.104.2.216)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

A brief article about Richard's piano.


Entered at Sat Mar 28 08:51:49 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: waxing lyrical

No, no, Bill. You don’t do the lads justice. I recall Nobby (drums) studying the lyrics to Don’t Start Me Talking, and saying, “Hey! If we transpose this to lyre, lute and sackbut it would be a perfect theme song for the school production of Othello. Iago could sing it!” Then Ernie (guitar) thought that the lyric might suit Othello’s ethnicity rather better, even though Othello was being played by a rather effete white lad with black stage makeup. We were grammar school boys. Our 12 bar version of Shall I Compare Thee To A Summer's Day should have been recorded. Punk would have got started a dozen years earlier.

My lyrics to Route 66 were much prized by local bands, in that I was the only person who thought of looking at an atlas, thus correcting the popular guesses at lines like "see a mirror," “gallop to Mexico” and “don’t forget to phone her.” Most bands were hampered by taking the lyrics from The Rolling Stones version, even though they would tell everyone it was a Chuck Berry song. Of course it was a song covered by Chuck Berry. If any of us had had the musical knowledge to seek out the Nat King Cole version it would have been far easier.


Entered at Sat Mar 28 08:46:37 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Adam

How d'you fellas know all this stuff??

:-0)


Entered at Sat Mar 28 02:35:30 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.136)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: Oy! What's this then?

Peter V: However much your bandmates may have appreciated your handwritten lyric sheets back in the day, I doubt they felt the same about your mimeoed theatre critiques.


Entered at Sat Mar 28 01:36:06 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Rhythm and lead at the same time ?

Last night, we saw The Who in a charity show - haven't seeb them live for something over 40 years. Daltrey and Townsend gave full-on two hour show. The support act was Wilko Johnson (ex Dr Feelgood) and my question is about him.

I haven't seen him live before and he plays rhythm and lead at the same time, his fingers seeming to "frail" like a banjo player's. I can't recall seeing anyone play guitar like that. How does he do it, I wonder.

Does any onther guitar player I might know play that way?

P.S: I'm not a guitar freak but I think it was a Telecaster with a black body and red guard - I don't recall one like that before, either.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 23:32:44 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Jed, I can't post my email here either. Jan has protection from those idiotic automated things.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 23:26:21 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

TYPO - 03. ROD was correct!


Entered at Fri Mar 27 23:25:11 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Subject: trivia

03. Jed was correct! In late 1974 (ie Wembley), Garth played lead organ on The Weight and Richard stayed on piano. That was the only time I know of during the OQ. The Wembley 1974 has a lot of notable lineup changes from the standard. Richard played double drums with Levon on Time To Kill, Smoke Signal and Mystery Train.

01. Pat is correct... Garth played piano on Smoke Signal (studio), but did not live. Pat, I didn't even see that you had just posted that fact right before I posted my questions! However Pat, your answer of Question 02 (Garth played Stage Fright piano in '87 after Richard's death) was not the answer I was looking for. I should have been more clear that these questions were OQ only. \So questions 1 and 3 are down, but 2 is still unanswered. And it is a good one!

02. Name a song Garth DID NOT play piano on (studio version), but DID live.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 22:01:44 CET 2015 from (58.104.2.216)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Jed, if you don't want to go to the trouble of torrenting you can just do a direct download from sites like TUBE.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 19:53:41 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Don't Start Me To Talking

I was very taken with Johnny Darrow's cover too, I think the chorus was a surprising and fun addition. I was quite surprised to see that Johnny Darrow was actually Johnny Moore of The Drifters under a pseudonym. That Sue label compilation also has Bobby Hendricks, another Drifter, on a solo career.

Don't Start Me To Talking stands with Route 66 as one I spent ages trying to puzzle out in garage band days. My handwritten sheets were much circulated, perpetuating many errors on my part. I bought "Down & Out Blues" on initial UK release, a major investment in those days, and learned Fattening Frogs for Snakes too.

When I get round to getting those 60s short stories on Kindle, the title is "I'll Tell Everything I Know" from Don't Start Me Talking.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 17:15:08 CET 2015 from (107.211.249.187)

Posted by:

Paul

Location: Chicago

Subject: Don't Start Me Talking

Peter, I don't know for sure, but I've always assumed Sonny Boy was saying, "...and get some market" for two dollars, and I think Johnny Darrow is saying the same. Nice version from Darrow, which I hadn't heard before.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 14:57:17 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Adam-email?

I got a smile outta this.A few days back I rant about technology and the Internet.Now I'm asking for a bit torrent and I still have no idea what that means.Now Adam is kind enough to help me out but,Adam,how do I give you my email on a public forum?Seems possibly messy problems may emerge?Pardon my Internet ignorance.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 10:21:41 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: John Renbourn

Death of John Renbourn is a sad loss. The heart of Pentangle now gone. Only saw them twice, but both nights brilliant.

I think when you consider Bert, John and Davey Graham it was a time when British guitarists could match anybody in the world. Neil Young is always full of praise for Bert.

I don't have the Bert Jansch, John Renbourn album, although I've heard it several times. Always meaning to pick it up, but never getting there. Will rectify this soon.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 08:55:32 CET 2015 from (173.3.48.220)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Saw our local version of a cover band tonight, Diane Lotny ( Ernie K doe, Alberts King & Collins, Big Joe Turner, neville Brothers, Earl King,.............), Kenny Aaronson on bass ( Dylan, Mick Taylor, Rick Derringer, Edgar Winter, bassist in Stories, that's him on Brother Louie, he;s from my neighborhood), Tom Curiano on drums (Garland Jeffreys, Jon Anderson), everyone else similar. You name it they played it. From BTO, to Alan Toussaint ( Yes We Can...Lotny was amazing). Maybe 30 people in the dive bar.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 08:34:06 CET 2015 from (219.89.46.52)

Posted by:

Rod

03. Garth played piano on "The Weight" (studio version), and always did live... BUT there was an exception. Which period of the OQ was it? around the time of the Wembley concert? I think someone here posted that that didn't bother doing a lot of their normal instrument changes for that concert


Entered at Fri Mar 27 08:10:54 CET 2015 from (108.36.197.190)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Location: the brink of despair

Subject: Wow, Pat B, you nailed it

Ouch, that was a cold dose of reality. As for me, I'm back to the Blues where I can find it (Joe Lewis Walker, thanks to introductions from Butch and Sid McGinnis after a Levon gig at The Beacon). I STILL love the zydeco and some hard to find African musics. David Lindley, Ry Cooder and Dave (and Phil) Alvin still rekindle my soul. And Amy Helm is one of the most REAL musicians I've heard in ages. Maybe, when I'm feeling Neanderthal, I'd consider a ZZ Top gig. Sure wish Keith would get the Ex-Pensive Winos back on the road...


Entered at Fri Mar 27 05:54:18 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

JQ, I closed up shop downtown and moved to the burbs, but if I'm down there I'll definitely stop in. Garth was still improvising on sax, but he tended to be lyrical, almost as though he was singing. Live he tended to play the parts from the record--Walcott, Unfaithful Servant--but his solo on IMND went to many different places.

Adam, Garth covered Richard's piano on Stage Fright when he was the only keyboardist for a while. He also let Richard Bell do the piano stuff on The Weight. Smoke Signal is the other answer unless there are more.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 01:51:49 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Jed, what's your email?


Entered at Fri Mar 27 01:43:31 CET 2015 from (63.142.158.9)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Garth: Keynoard and Sax

Hi Pat B - We recently remodeled the Chicago pub a bit; if you make it in let me know what you think.

You mentioned Garth's Sax playing - He didn't seem to get too improvisational on Sax, very unlike his keyboard playing. Do you think that his Sax chops, as his newer accomplishment, didn't allow for that (yet)?


Entered at Fri Mar 27 01:20:43 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Question for Adam

Great job on Pittsburgh show.The music is stellar.Thanks for posting the show.Question:I may have missed it but is there a link to a bit torrent(is that what it's called?)? My friend wants to copy it for me to cd,but thinks a bit torrent would help.Thanks.


Entered at Fri Mar 27 01:00:03 CET 2015 from (178.16.130.100)

Posted by:

Green waste girl

Location: London
Web: My link

That's pretty awesome, really! The disscography is impressive. Would visit again!


Entered at Thu Mar 26 23:30:53 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: RIP John Renbourn

See link.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 22:47:55 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Subject: Garth trivia

Here's some interesting (to me anyway) Band instrumentation trivia for you all:

01. Name a song Garth DID play piano on (studio version), but DID NOT live.

02. Name a song Garth DID NOT play piano on (studio version), but DID live.

03. Garth played piano on "The Weight" (studio version), and always did live... BUT there was an exception. Which period of the OQ was it?


Entered at Thu Mar 26 22:05:10 CET 2015 from (68.196.242.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Al, you know the danger in ever speaking for or about any woman. Bob is a smart cookie.......... Then again, not my place......


Entered at Thu Mar 26 21:57:08 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: groceteria blues

See also [My link].


Entered at Thu Mar 26 21:52:41 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: I'll Tell Everything I Know

Peter V: I'm pretty sure Jack gave his wife the two dollars to go downtown "and get some market" - which I take to mean foodstuffs. Cognate, in my head anyway, with BB. King's diktat to his generous significant other in "I Got Some Help I Don't Need" (at [My link]): "When I come home, it better be grocery on the shelf."


Entered at Thu Mar 26 21:24:21 CET 2015 from (68.232.68.198)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

sadavid: Thanks to the link to Mood dja dja - a terrific album. I think a guy or two went on to k.d. lang's band after that. Before, group leader (and writer and singer) Greg Leskiw had been one of the two Winnipeg guitarists hired to replace Randy Bachman in the Guess Who. Leskiw left after a couple albums to do his own thing, this. His replacement was Don MacDougall, who'd been lead singer and co-lead guitarist in Mother Tucker's Yellow Duck - hear link. I was going to post about them after listening to the one album of theirs that made it to CD, mostly because we were wondering where the GB women had gone and I was reminded of Kristie of Duncan BC. I thnk it was because she liked Moby Grape that I suggested she go down to Victoria to find the MTYD CD - at a place called the Turntable on FanTan Alley. (JT chipped in that he knew the place.) But I didn't post this thought then, but will now.

Pat B: While I'm good with the idea that it's Garth on piano on "The Weight", I'm pretty sure it's often Richard playing the Weighty / churchy piano snatches stewn throughout the BTs. Even though Garth's got hands enough to do a decent job on both keyboards at the same time, the basement setting doesn't seem to call for such.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 21:22:18 CET 2015 from (108.41.170.168)

Posted by:

Joan

Subject: Robbie's book

For those of you who are not on Facebook. Robbie has posted that he just finished the next to last chapter as he said two more to go of the first draft


Entered at Thu Mar 26 21:21:03 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Don't Start Me Taliking

Sonny Boy Williamson wrote it. I just got the Sue label 2 disc "out of European copyright" set, Sticks & Stones.It includes Johnny Darrow's version of this marvellous song. Johnny Darrow clarified "He honked his horn" but I still have no idea what Jack gave his wife two dollars to buy. I spent ages laboriously trying to write out the lyrics in 1964 and put "mutton" but it's not. So what was it?


Entered at Thu Mar 26 20:39:28 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: the genetic mary poppins

One thing I love about Mr. Hudson is the occasional antique colours he uses - like Stephen Foster or some such 19th-century parlour music. There's a little of that here, and a little of the East European thing as well.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 20:23:28 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Thanks

Thanks for explanation Pat. I understand a lot of the post, but I'll have to do some googling. But like Al, I would like more of the same.

Thanks, Peter. I like Will Self's journalism, but have not read his novels, but I was surprised he had been teaching that day. Always interested in writing.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 19:53:20 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Cream (not the band)

Despite all of our moaning, the cream rises to the top (examples: the issue of JH and Bob) irrespective of the technology. Its not all bad. As I have said before, at least on the recordings that I hear, there is a lot of good new and rising talent if you keep your eyes and ears open.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 19:46:55 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: I'll tell you what guys and gals

I'm chuffed to mintballs I thought it was dear Richard on Time To Kill.

Otherwise we might never have gotten these amazing insights/reflections from our very own keyboard afficianado.

That last post. Wow.

More of the same please Pat.

And whilst I'm at it some terrific insights on both current and past music scenes from Jeff and Pete. There's times when this place is akin to a university of musical life.

Sterling stuff fellas.

Perhaps Bob F might add to the mix and give us some background insight on the early promise/past and ongoing emergence of his highly gifted daughter. OK Bob? We'd love to know.

:-0)


Entered at Thu Mar 26 19:39:09 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I'll email, Dunc.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 19:25:59 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: LHOsmond and David Wiffen

Bill M: I have the LHOsmond cds and like them a lot. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to make Hugh's Room on that date though I'd love to. It'll surely be a great evening.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 18:49:01 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Dunc, a short answer to a question that deserves a really long one. He's a genius at voice leading which no doubt began with his love of Bach Chorals and Anglican hymns. You can google "voice leading" and find any number of interesting explanations which may appear obtuse. That tended to inform a lot of his organ playing. But he didn't stop with Bach's four note music. He's investigated all kinds of classical music, including Romantic and Impressionistic. Some moments in the Genetic Method sound like movies from the 30's. He's studied classical finger technique but he developed techniques uniqely his own. He also loved all kinds of rock, country, and blues piano players. Floyd Cramer influenced a lot of people with his bent-note approach to piano technique. Garth also has an esoteric bent. He employs a jazz concept called "planing" that allows an improviser to mess around with key centers, including the use of fourths. He loves dissonance. With the Band he tended to avoid blues thirds--the minor 3rd in a major song. As an organist he used a lot of the orchestral resources an organ provides, mimicing brass, strings, choirs, reeds etc. He has amazing independence: his left hand and right hand can operate quite independently of each other, and he played bass pedals with his feet. He's also studied various ethnic uses of the accordion--latin, Polish/east European. And he can swing. When he sits down to play, he brings all of this.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 18:12:21 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Various

Thanks everybody. Some interesting links and posts.

Pat B:Maybe a daft question. I remember a couple of years back you mentioning you had a collection of 'Genetic Fevers'. How unique is Garth? What is it that he can do that makes him unique?

Peter, I noticed today some leading Scottish authors will be giving talks at a Glasgow Hospital. Some writers can have a difficult life. At your transition stage from teaching to writing becoming your main occupation, how difficult was it to get a decent rate for the piece of writing and to get your money after the task was completed? Don't answer if this is too nosey.

Developing Scottish bands always left Scotland for London. The stated reason was to get a record deal, but I also wonder if it was to be in an area where there was an opportunity to get more gigs?


Entered at Thu Mar 26 18:07:38 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: it's a living

My kid brother has made a living playing keyboards for 30-plus years. Some arranging, some music directing, occasionally leading. (Journeyman work; not the same, I know, as trying to establish / maintain a career as a 'name' artist.) And he ain't rich, but he's never missed a meal or his rent, and he's doing what he loves.

I think the keys to that degree of success (beyond having the chops) are being easy to work with and not being picky -- he's worked bars, bar mitzvahs, theatre, dinner theatre, cruises, casinos, concerts, festivals, weddings, whatever.

[My link] is an earworm from The Golden Age (ca 1975) that surfaced with the recent discussion . . . .


Entered at Thu Mar 26 17:59:08 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.145)

Posted by:

Bill M

Location: Tronto
Web: My link

JT: Speaking of Hugh's Room, that's where I plan to be on April 9 - for the following. Note that Lee Harvey Osmond is BARK's Tom Wilson and friends. **************** A Celebration of David Wiffen

with Special Performances by
Murray McLauchlan
Cowboy Junkies
LeE HARVey OsMOND
Lynn Miles
Harlan Pepper
Liam Titcomb
Scarlett Jane
David Bray
Sandy Crawley
Lost and Profound

David Wiffen is going to make a rare public appearance and will join the audience for this special evening of performances of his music by so many  talented artists. David Wiffin’s latest CD “Songs From The Lost & Found” will be available for purchase at this event.

  English-born Canadian singer and guitarist David Wiffen is a widely acclaimed songwriter, whose songs have been covered by artists including Eric Andersen, Tom Rush, The Cowboy Junkies, Chris and Rich Robinson of The Black Crowes, Anne Murray ,The Jayhawks, Harry Belafonte, The Byrds, Ian & Sylvia, Blackie and the Rodeo Kings, Jerry Jeff Walker and many others. Born March 11, 1942, Wiffen moved to Canada with his family, at the age of 16. His first solo album, “David Wiffen at the Bunkhouse Coffeehouse” was released in 1965. Wiffen subsequently signed to Fantasy Records and in 1971, released “David Wiffen” and had hit singles with “One Step” and “More Often Than Not”. The album also contained his most widely covered song, “Driving Wheel”. His second solo studio album, “Coast to Coast Fever” (United Artists, 1973), was produced by Bruce Cockburn. Wiffen’s third album, ”South of Somewhere”, was released in 1999; the album contained a mix of reworkings of some of his older material, such as “Driving Wheel”, plus some new songs. During this period, he returned briefly to performing, but has not performed publicly since early 2000. “Songs From The Lost & Found” consists of 12 previously unreleased songs dating from the mid-seventies to the early eighties along with 5 alternative versions of songs previously released on “South of Somewhere” . Whether recorded solo, in small combos, or with a full band, they are some of the finest material Wiffen has written. These are songs of longing, of experience, of travel, of reflection, of love lost and love won all sung with his incredible baritone voice.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 17:48:38 CET 2015 from (24.114.66.166)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Give me 3 chords or 3 perfect paragraphs - wow, great post, Pat B.........I sometimes think that that summer on salary was really the key to everything that followed.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 17:47:03 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Classical gas

Bach & Garth. It reminds me of something going the rounds the week before last – 30 faces and “Which one would you have most liked to see in concert?” They included Jimi Hendrix, Lou Reed, Kurt Cobain, Beethoven, Elvis.

I voted for Elvis on strict condition that it was Elvis in 1955 not 1975. But as I pointed out to those who chose Beethoven, was he any good live? It’s a bit like that with Bach – maybe he improvised, stood up, and played the keyboard with his toes, but I think someone would have mentioned it. We know Mozart gave a cracking good show because he toured all over and attracted large crowds.

It’s a bit like Jimmy Webb – I was excited to see he was playing locally, but a friend who’d seen him said “Fantastic composer. Truly awful performer.”


Entered at Thu Mar 26 17:40:12 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

What's different is the speed of change and also because of technology 115 odd years old, we have it all recorded. So there's this huge stack of music, and one guy can immerse in the first 1920s blues recordings (as a friend of mine does), I'm sitting here listening to Little Mac & The Boss Sounds (the vocal B-side) "You Can Love Me In The Midnight Hour" from nearly 50 years ago, or you can be listening to the Brandenburg Concertos. It's all there, a mountain of it. All available.

Then you get these folk song guys (one on Radio 4 today) combing the archives for musical annotations of folk songs scribbled down in the 19th century.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 17:14:59 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Garth is way too much of an improviser to be pigeonholed with Bach, and Garth's palette is much more orchestral.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 17:08:00 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Technology has always changed the arts, Jeff, and yes, like this before.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 17:03:55 CET 2015 from (68.196.242.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat, i agree with your statement " The problem is we've all lived long enough to see the change for ourselves. "
from the 20s ( or prior ) till our dilemma it was probably all positive change.
Good conversation, but gotta get up & go.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 17:01:01 CET 2015 from (68.196.242.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Yes Pat. Things change. Never like this before.

Separately, i forgot to include this, so returned to report the passing of two musical giants. Keyboardist James Allen Smith, who I saw plenty of with Stuff, and Samuel Charters. Charters, well see for yourselves. Key in so many peoples careers, one of them. being my friend Larry Johnson. Charters was the first to record him.

Pat, Garth was/ is the next coming of Bach.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 16:52:23 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

An old story. Tastes change. People used to dance to big band Jazz orchestras, but WWII killed that business. Small jazz groups did great business until the music became self-indulgent. RnR presented a new dance form that younger people loved, and the sight of people their own age onstage performing it became a huge draw, even as it killed jazz. Chuck Berry even sang about it. Now jazz lives as an academic exercise-as noted a few weeks ago, it and blues are the worst selling music in America.

The Band? They successfully transitioned from a dying breed (courtesy the British Invasion)--a white RnB/Blues group slogging it out on a shot and a beer circuit--to a loud rock group backing a polarizing poet, a move that drove away one of its key members. When they re-emerged, thanks to a weekly salary and a brilliant summer at Big Pink, they had again transformed, but this time they did it themselves. It just so happened they hit a cultural touchstone and enjoyed huge critical success and some commercial success. Their "time" then passed and the transformations ended.

As usual, music moves on. Jeff, you asked where are the next Richard's and Rick's coming from. Classical buffs used to ask where the next Bach was coming from as the church music fans dismissed the Romantics who dismissed the Impressionists who dismissed the 12 tone buffs. We aren't going to see them again, just like we aren't going to see the next Miles or Bird or Trane or the Beatles. Music does that. The problem is we've all lived long enough to see the change for ourselves.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 16:44:18 CET 2015 from (188.207.102.124)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Utrecht Holland course (break)

Subject: Rock musicians in commercials

Corming up, garth would be wanted.study Goes on


Entered at Thu Mar 26 16:38:14 CET 2015 from (68.196.242.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I hadn't the time to wrote properly before, and don't again now. But Pete, I suppose we could trace the origin of the situation to way back prior, not stopping at disco. My feeling has always been technology did society in, or society did itself in with technology, Of course the issue is, once something is in play where do you stop, how do you stop?

So Pete, the way i see it, the two most significant developments was electrification & computerization. Once an instrument was electrified, we were on the path downhill. that part of technology was in play, electronika, drum machines, the inevitable development. And of course, we've discussed, or i;ve presented my views of the effects of the digital devil on the industry.

To me, those were the two most significant developments. OF course, I'm all for electric musical instruments.

Pete, a toddler tossing the adults' cell phones in the garbage. Love it.
Obviously your grandson is brilliant, expressive, got balls, and a brilliant future.
(Don't fuck it up :-) ......couldn't help myself. I would joke the same way with my closest friends though so :-) feel honored.)


Entered at Thu Mar 26 14:33:56 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: More

For those who find violin + melodeon difficult, a different song with guitar and concertina is linked.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 14:21:54 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Things have changed, but not stopped. The folk scene has changed from a beery bearded man in a pub to young musicians, and it seems pretty vibrant and lively. If you look at the community "Arts Centres" in smaller towns there's a regular circuit of the folkier kind. To cheer us all up, the link is Spiers and Boden at a folk festival showing what a two piece can do.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 13:49:13 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: 'Things Have Changed'

I spoke to a musician in a 3 (sometimes 4 piece) band I know who plays around this small city in bars. Weekdays he might clear $150 max and weekends $200 or maybe a little more. He said he knows that this is because its a smaller city with fewer bands available. In larger cities, it is less from what he knows. He waits tables in a local food establishment to make ends meet to support his family. They carry their own equipment and get to their gigs on their own. They play late into the night (next AM). The best is if they are hired for weddings etc. when its easier and money is a little better (2 sets instead of 3-4). He loves it but as Jeff says, its tough. And what they play is covers. No one wants to hear original creations they don't know in a bar (unless your someone like Dave Alvin and his band or someone like that and have your own past and then a new album). For the usual trio or quartet, its Rolling Stones and CCR and Led Zep and the like. There are few places for the local folk troubadour to play around here on a regular basis. There may be the one or two-nighters in a small club. Places we used to go to are disappearing (we had a great blues club here in the last decade - now gone). 'Things Have Changed.' (to quote the bardD). In Toronto, for better known acts, there is still Hugh's Place and a few small venues. In Victoria, we have a couple of small venues (where Jesse Winchester- for example -used to come in his later years). There is one bar here that has newer acts without a major name yet and they do one-nighters. There are posters up on the lampposts around town that let you know who will be in that month. These types of venues give the opportunity for self-creative newer acts who are up-and-coming to play, but my guess is that the remuneration is not much better than what was described above. So, yes, its a tough go for musicians today in the face of new technologic approaches and new attitudes. And clearly what we 50-70 year old patrons want is not what the kids want. So get it while you can.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 13:44:33 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

There are paradoxes in all this. More albums are being released in spite of far fewer places selling them. If you move to books, the “new hardback fiction” section in Waterstones is ten times the size it was five years ago, but “all authors” average incomes have dropped over 30% in the same period.

I think that (like many musicians) I was extremely lucky to work in an era when you could make a living writing textbooks and scriptwriting. I was speaking to other full-time authors at a colleague’s funeral this week, and we were unanimous that those times have gone. Watching TV last week, Will Self, a major novelist, was talking about his day spent teaching.

I had a conversation with a magazine recently who wanted an article that would take me a full day to research, write and revise and they were offering £40. They were offended when I declined and pointed out that after 35 years seeing my name in print was not a thrill nor a motivation.

Maybe we have to think about William Carlos Williams who combined being a medical doctor with being one of the great American 20th century poets.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 13:32:21 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.184)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Thanks

Al, Thank you for the kind words about RoseAnn's music. Greatly appreciated.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 12:44:05 CET 2015 from (68.196.242.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Al. Pete, the great musical age is past. I've been discussing just that & why that is all these years in here. It's awfully sad. There is however, quite a lot of great music that could get properly recorded & released if not for the state of things, etc.... ...Al, you got that equation backwards, you're on the better side with that construction job... I did shut my construction business.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 12:22:15 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Jeff's link

Looks a fascinating link mate. I look forward to taking a look tonight.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 12:20:41 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Pat

Many thanks for all those snippets of insight mate.

I'll take a good look through my re-focussed Richard/Garth keyboards lens!!!


Entered at Thu Mar 26 12:16:58 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Jeff

Of course I'm on board mate. It's a real shame. Renders you sad and a mite despairing and not a little angry. But maybe, perish the notion, we've well and truly had our musical golden age because I also realise that nowhere, in no arena, are things wot they used to be. As a kid all's we wanted to do is play out. 24/7. Any game, any small fry adventure. Just as long as we were out. These days it seems many kids would rather be indoors playing on their video games till they disappear up their own X-Box. So how can those kids end up with the same sensibilities as our generation? they can't. Only time will tell how good, bad or indifferent that is. In the end though the market dictates. Mere gobshites like us can but moan and bleat. Invariably to no avail - though occasionally not thankfully a la Hillsborough.

As for my "limited" empathy. Probably the incorrect word 'limited' as it presumably implied to yourself a degree of not being arsed which is not the case. Whatever, it relates back to my own personal circumstances which everyone else would rightly find 100% boring. Let's just say I'd rather be a lowly paid musician than a repeatedly ripped off ageing 9 quid an hour professional in the construction industry with a 6am start most days including most weekends.

:-0)


Entered at Thu Mar 26 10:11:02 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Money & Music & Instruments

We had a good few days on rhythm guitarists of note a few years back, with Lou Reed, Keith Richards and John Lennon mentioned among others.

On playing nowadays. I thought back to 1962. A Fender Precision Bass cost £130 in Britain, and the trade restriction on American guitars had just been lifted. I just fired up the UK Inflation Calculator and that’s £2,528 in 2015 money. Paul McCartney’s violin bass would have cost him around £50 new, or around £1000 in modern money.

OK, nowadays you can get a Fender Squier Precision Bass for £182 new. There’s a secondhand one in the shop near here for £120. Let’s not get into the arcane superiority of a 1962 PB. The Squier PB is a perfectly acceptable gigging instrument. I just looked on line and a “previously loved” 1962 Fender PB goes for around £4,400 now. But take that brand new mass-produced PB. It’s the cost of just THREE video games. In other words, a young budding musician can get decently equipped very, very cheaply. In fact Amazon co uk will chuck in a 15 watt practice bass amp for another £40 and that just about usable with the rest of the band playing acoustic instruments in a pub.

So in the 60s a young musician required much greater financial commitment to get started … a reasonable amp would have cost the same as the PB. BUT as Jeff will point out, they could also earn back their investment reasonably easily. Friends who were good in semi-pro bands were playing 3 to 4 nights a week without travelling more than 30 miles. Those who had jobs (others were students) were making more from playing than from their day jobs. Of course, we should look to the discotheque as the first hammer blow.

It’s also true that while there was lots of live music, many musicians had day jobs. A friend’s dad played sax in the dance band at the ballrooms six nights a week – he considered himself a professional musician, and had played many sessions. He called his tuxedo his overalls. But in common with the rest of the dance band, he had an extra job. They all finished playing around twelve. Had a meal, then reported to the railway station to pick up newspapers at 2 a.m. and drive them round to the shops. Bed at 6 a.m. All the local newspaper delivery guys then were musicians. Muddy Waters, famously, supplemented his income with a touch of painting and decorating.

Maybe it was the late 60s and 70s that meant being a full-time travelling musician was a full-time job. Part of it was that gigs were already thinning and you had to travel. Our sax player example could do two jobs because they were a resident band, playing in one location over many years. Does that exist anywhere now outside the Letterman house band?

So … is it weird that music, for most people, is no longer a sufficient “only job”?

The growing scene is folk related, precisely because you need less gear and can play small venues without roadies or a van. Spiers & Boden did magnificent two piece gigs – Jon Boden on violin and amplified “foot stomp board” and John Spiers on Melodeon, which gives a bass line too. They sounded like a whole band. In fact the great instrumental solos I’ve seen in the last few years seem to be on violin or viola. Jon Boden, Seth Lakeman, Eliza Carthy.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 05:36:19 CET 2015 from (68.196.242.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Kooch: "It’s much easier to play a screamer solo over a heavy groove than it is to make that groove,” insists Kortchmar, who, aside from being an accomplished soloist, songwriter, and producer, was a rhythm specialist. Kootch found his way onto records by a who’s-who of heavy hitters including James Taylor, Carole King, Jackson Browne, Linda Ronstadt, Don Henley, and Bonnie Raitt. Back in 1983, Kortchmar wrote a story in GP, “In Defense of Rhythm Guitar.” “A good rhythm guitarist will inspire people in the band to play better,” he said. “We can’t have a world full of guys playing screaming solos—there have to be guys who can play songs, who can play rhythm guitar.” As a pro’s pro, Kortchmar also dropped some science on how to get your feel together: “The interplay between people is what makes music, and that’s something you can’t practice at home. You have to get out in the world and do it.”
connection: The last sentences....“The interplay between people is what makes music, and that’s something you can’t practice at home. You have to get out in the world and do it.” /there's a lot more of course but - There's got to be an economy to support it all.
Where's the next Bruce Springsteen gonna come from Al? The next RR, Richard, Garth, Levon, Rick? Artist development.... an economy to support it.....

Could night folks.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 05:07:43 CET 2015 from (68.196.242.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: List, I never look. Guess I found the reason I did

Alex Lifeson made this list. Could it be our old friend Landmark adds an e and gets wild?


Entered at Thu Mar 26 02:31:56 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

Smoke Signal is another interesting one. Garth played piano on the Cahoots version but played the organ with Richard on piano when they did it live. The link has a great RR solo from 1974.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 02:18:47 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

And just to muddy the waters a bit more, recall that John Simon played that rollicking piano on Caledonia Mission and the electric Hohner piano on King Harvest and Whispering Pines.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 02:12:58 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

Al E, this is a good example of Richard comping on the organ. You can hear him particularly well during RR's extended solo. He didn't play organ on the studio version.

Garth had a couple different approaches to the piano: stately, as in The Weight and the intro to River Hymn, and jazzy as in Rag Mama Rag and Time To Kill, although The Weight became quite jazzy live. An interesting combo of the two styles is Thinkin Out Loud from Cahoots. Probably his most melodic playing is when he picked up the sax. Think (voluntarily) Walcott, Servant, or IMND.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 01:13:10 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Si

No probs Si.

Seems like nobody is really sure as to how United managed 64% of that first half. I can't bring myself to watch it again. In the meantime I'm sticking with the Sturridge theory I posted although someone has informed me that the spell with Sterling up top wasn't actually as sweetness and light as I'd had it fixed in my mind.

Let's hope Brendan's sussed it anyroad.

:-0)

BTW Si, you'll be relieved to know my fibroidoptics have been playing up too. Thank god for Prep H!!!

:-0)


Entered at Thu Mar 26 01:05:09 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Pat B

Cheers for all this Pat. Greatly appreciated.

Forgive me if it may seem a daft/naive question but is your insight down to simple deduction of a keyboard man such as yourself that tells you Richard couldn't have played these piano accompaniments or those rare solo snatches such as say Rags to the intricate level we hear them because he wasn't sufficiently accomplished to do so or because Garth would simply do them because he was the more accomplished?

Or is it a combination of that and yourself having seen the OQ live on various occasions back in the day and knowing who played what from what you saw back then?

I'm not ashamed to admit it but with never having seen the OQ I'd always taken it as read that in basic terms any piano was Richard and likewise any organ was Garth. I know from reading the credits on the album sleeves there was a small degree of chopping and changing but I really did think most of the piano was Richard.

Hmm, that said, I've just looked now for the first time in god knows how many years and seen that the piano fills on Big Pink's Weight is down as Garth and the organ as Richard!

I'm bemused. Pat any chance of a fuller take from your goodself on the way the split used to work and why it was the case?

:-0)


Entered at Thu Mar 26 00:15:46 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

The other solo was in Baby Let Me Follow You Down from 65-66.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 00:14:57 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

On those old rockers (RocknRoll Shoes, Slippin), Richard tended to do the same figures with few changes. But his intro to Slippin' was still a powerhouse.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 00:12:14 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Simon, you got Lovin' You. Soloing involves improv and that descending figure in Dixie was the same every night. More of a figure like the Stage Fright intro etc.


Entered at Thu Mar 26 00:04:00 CET 2015 from (165.120.1.27)

Posted by:

Simon

Does Richard play piano on TNTDODD? If so does the descending bit at the end count as a solo?


Entered at Wed Mar 25 23:56:14 CET 2015 from (165.120.1.27)

Posted by:

Simon

Subject: Pat/Al/Kevin

Pat - Loving You Is Sweeter Than Ever - the song, of course. I think that's one of them.

Al - Sorry about the delay responding. I've just switched over to fibreoptic and have had a few teething problems (plus no appreciable difference in speed). I'll get back to you soon. (Likewise to Kevin).


Entered at Wed Mar 25 23:12:13 CET 2015 from (174.119.149.196)

Posted by:

Stan L.

Location: Toronto

Subject: Richard

Pat B. I think Richard did a bit of a solo on I Don't Wanna Hang Up My Rock & Roll Shoes, no? What was the other one? Back to Memphis? As you noted, you can hear a bit of bleed from the organ track on the Weight between verses, but the organ track itself is gone. I wonder why they took that out. I also recall at least one live performance where Richard and Garth did not switch instruments on the Weight and Richard played that piano pretty damn well!


Entered at Wed Mar 25 22:56:52 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Richard was not a hotshot piano player. Think about it (voluntarily, of course): maybe two piano solos in the group's recorded history dating back to Dylan. In fact, name them (voluntarily, of course). But his rhythm playing was fantastic: the aforementioned Dylan/Woody Guthrie show, We Can Talk, TNTDODD, Stage Fright, Shape--plus his drumming.


Entered at Wed Mar 25 22:49:05 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Pittsburgh/I'm a copy cat,Dunc

Listened to Syria mosque last night.Rockin Chair has become my favorite song too over the past 2-3 years.Ricks bass playing and vocals were quite incredible in this show as well.They were all on.


Entered at Wed Mar 25 21:20:01 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Richard

Pat B:For me Richard was the first voice of the Band, although I love all three voices.

I have read in the past that there were times when Richard practised piano very hard.

How good a piano player did he have to be to contribute to the overall sound?

I played Syria Mosque twice to day. (Thanks Peter) I love Rockin Chair where Richard is at his best. Beautiful. Maybe my favourite Band song.


Entered at Wed Mar 25 21:14:20 CET 2015 from (72.190.113.156)

Posted by:

Glenn T

Subject: RINGO and Robbie

From Rolling Stone website: The closet thing possible to a Beatles reunion these days will occur on April 18th when Paul McCartney inducts Starr into the Hall of Fame in Cleveland. McCartney says he kickstarted the process after having dinner with Robbie Robertson, who pointed out that Beatles manager Brian Epstein was in, but Ringo was not. "I said, 'Let me see what I can do,'" says McCartney. "And I talked to Bruce Springsteen and I talked to Dave Grohl, and they both said he should be in. And I said I'd do the induction. That took care of it."


Entered at Wed Mar 25 20:53:44 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Buskers: no where beats New Orleans for busker quality. London gets pretty good on the tunnels below the bridges on the South Bank which give an excellent echo. It's visually enhanced when they work directly under the NO BUSKING sign which they do. I particularly like the string quartets which turn up doing straight classical.


Entered at Wed Mar 25 20:53:22 CET 2015 from (68.232.68.198)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: the earworm turns ...

This morning I was again humming Robbie's "Handsome Lake" to myself and after awhile I realised that it had turned into "Colorado Rockies" from "National Lampoon's Lemmings" - arguably a far-flung spawn of our guys' music (like Zappa's "Montana" but with much less musical merit).


Entered at Wed Mar 25 19:55:22 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

Al E, on TTK Richard would play some very basic stuff on the organ and sing. He did a nice organ figure live on The Weight (with Garth again on piano), although his track was wiped for the most part from the original recording.


Entered at Wed Mar 25 19:48:33 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Synchronicity

Jeff A: A word I learned and love. Often, I hear a new word or idea for the first time (at leas in my consciousness) and then hear it repeatedly for days and weeks after. There is an order to chaos.


Entered at Wed Mar 25 19:05:22 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.210)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

JT, it's kinda funny you mentioned busking now. I spent an hour or so in the middle of last night bullshitting with a buddy of mine underneath the city in the subway terminal at Bryant Park & 42nd street in Manhttan. He busked there, in the 80s when he was a bike messenger. We were busllhitting after leaving friends playing the set I was telling you, and then leaving a coffee shop. We had enough to talk about for another three days, but spoke in the train station for an hour ( and we had already visited two times in the last week). Eventually he was telling me about what it used to like when he busked there, and his friendship that developed with a bluesman thirty years older than us, who was Busking there too at the same time as he. That guy was already a pro, but went on to developing a name. My friend did become a pro, been making a living in music for his entire adult life- well , that is after he gave up being a bike messenger. but, he lives overseas for the last 17 years, and thank god, his wife always worked too.


Entered at Wed Mar 25 17:00:09 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Roadies,Techs,etc.

Back in the day no one took care of the roadies better than the Allman Brothers and Duane Allman in particular.Duane paid the roadies before the band,put the band on one side and the roadies on the other of the album cover for At Fillmore East,as well as extending many other courtesies keeping it all one big family.As a fan,I can think of but 2-3 other bands where everyone knew the names of the roadies.Duane spoke often of the heroics of these fine upstanding crazies who kept that music machine running!


Entered at Wed Mar 25 14:34:16 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: You know

Jeff A: Thank you for the heartfelt comments regarding the state of touring by musicians. Like all jobs, we, the general public, only see the superficial and don't know what is happening under the surface. I've said this before. I am amazed by some of the talent I hear on the streets of Victoria. There are a lot of buskers and some are quite good. They are at the low end of a ladder of musicians who aspire to even get onto a stage. As Jeff clearly says, talent is far from enough. The impediments are staggering and its hard to make ends meet. With the 'hit me now and hit me fast' attitude of today's youth, it isn't going to get any better. Reduced attention span and hedonistic 'if I don't like it in 2 minutes then hell, next' doesn't play well for grammy award nominees. Its a different generation who are consuming today. They don't want what these nominees have to offer. While Jeff and I seek them out, the new bunch download singles and are satisfied. That doesn't make for big bucks on tour to small venues for even the most gifted musicians. How this will play out for the future of the performing musician is anybody's guess. I'm not sure who is buying vinyl today but I'd be surprised if it was today's youth. When I go into Ditch Records, I see 40+ looking people looking at them. I rarely see what I call kids in there. Yes, Jeff, things have changed and the future for the old way when Levon and the Hawks got some 'make a living' money is fast disappearing. Leaving the arena shows by the big acts aside, I think some new attention needs to be given to the plight of the small acts playing in bars and small showplaces. It is an art that is in some danger of extinction if it keeps going in the direction Jeff describes.


Entered at Wed Mar 25 09:47:47 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.210)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Al, I'm not asking any one to cry a river. These are subjects near & dear to everyone's hearts, getting to hear great music, getting to buy & hear, or hear & buy & hear new great music, new great songs, and to see new great acts live, is close to every one's hearts here. So discussion is welcome. That article i linked discusses how, at a certain level, touring has become the way that industry people earn. It discusses that many jobs have been lost, and where the jobs now are. Songwriting jobs lost, studio jobs lost, label jobs lost, others, and the loss of income....but how roadies are thriving,and how people in tour support positions are thriving. My post, my comments,. were directed at the examination of this - if touring is what's left, how is it possible to get to the level the article discussed.. and that's what i wrote about. There are many great acts, there is a ton of great music, not getting heard.
I just came back from hearing a 4 piece, 2 guitarists, bass, drums, everyone a singer, NY guys, 2 of em grammy nominated, but deservedly..... four lifelong veteran musicians in their 50s and 60s. It was magnificent. Old school, blues, swing, going to church shit.... a version of John Hiatt's Feels Like Rain that was staggering... These guys are lucky. they're all in 3 or 4 bands, with a good amount of overlap, and they all work 4 -6 days a week. But a lot of the gigs pay 100 to 150 bucks. And they're lucky....can you imagine?

And though it looks like playing music, great musicians put the same amount of effort into their work as any one who breaks his or her ass at a profession or trade. Muscians first need the talent, then the dedication, then work long hard hours to perfect their craft. And they rehearse & practise new material. The amount of time & work is staggering.

New material, doesn't always happen overnight either.

Add in the amount of work it is to run the business today too - on the way up, no one is running the business for you. You got to do it all. If you don't have the following, you ain't getting the gig. So how do you get the following? You Tube first, gig later? Or play for free. So sure, you can walk into any club, and hear lousy bands to day, they'll play for free. There'll be some good ones too. But they ain't making a living at music if they;re taking those gigs - they gotta do something else. So, they'll usually develop far more slowly.. And the odds of them getting heard in a real way are far fewer than the odds would have been 25, 35, 40, 45 years ago.

So that is just some of what new acts gotta go through today. The article i linked, that doesn't pertain to too many new acts, unless they got Bieber lucky and connected on you tube. Or worked their ass off, and used You Tube or some other social media, or some other grass roots effort to build a following.
The selection process today is a big part of the problem. the faact that social media is how new acts can get follwoings, then bookings for little money,, or play for free to get bookings, for little money , then if it works out, then get the real bookings that pay any real mney - right there, that's the problem. The structure has been long gone.

And the fact athat venue owners no longer think it;s necessary to pay for entertainment for their clientele. Real musicians are dying to play. People that used to make 300, 400 bucks a night back in the 80s and 90s, now they;re faced with maybe making 50, 70 bucks a night here. How could anyone expect anyone to live on that,let alone, learn and develop new material? One thing, you see far more trio acts than ever before..... splitting three ways is far eaier than 4, 6, 7 or 8...


Entered at Wed Mar 25 09:11:13 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Roadies / The college circuit

A lot of early roadies went on to start equipment companies, hiring out PA and mixing boards to all comers. Owning something was often the route into the job … The Beatles and The Animals employed pals who happened to own old vans.

As to pay, the only bit I can talk about is “second on the bill bands” at the college gigs circuit around 1969 to 1970. Bands with an album or two out, John Peel Show level. At that level, there was usually a manager involved, who funded the enterprise. £200 was a very good Friday or Saturday night at a university or college, but Tuesday might be a prestige London club for about £30. Places like the Marquee paid almost nothing. Factor in overnight stays, travel, equipment, two roadies. A lot of bands received a weekly hand out from management, all of which was recorded against their potential future earnings, as was every cup of coffee at a motorway services. The roadie got free accommodation, meals on the road and often more money than any band member. Not a lot more, but more. And if you stopped at a petrol station at 3 a.m. in those days, you’d see a hirsute chap with a Ford Transit asking for 20 cigarettes and two Mars bars and saying “Just put it all on one receipt as petrol.” Those were the days of the handwritten receipt of course. So a roadie’s living expenses were few. But they did not hold the lottery ticket marked “potential stardom” which motivated the musicians. Which is why they often earned more than the band … until of course the band broke past that circuit and gig level

I’m fascinated by the handful of bands which made really good money on the live college circuit, so much so that making records was of secondary importance. They were actually earning a decent living from playing. Earlier, Steampacket. Then Simon Dupree & The Big Sound, The Alan Bown Set, Geno Washington & The Ram Jam Band. Some of those bands cost more to book for a college dance circa 1967 or 1968 than successful chart bands like (say) The Kinks, or at one point, probably 1967, The Who. They also got booked into the big seaside resort ballrooms, like Bournemouth Pavilion (where I saw many of them). I can’t recall college fees, but I have a feeling John Mayall’s various bands were also better paid than many “more successful” bands on the college circuit.

There must have been American equivalents. Levon & The Hawks must have done reasonably well- they said they were making more money than they had with Ronnie Hawkins.


Entered at Wed Mar 25 09:09:04 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Jan, you must know this one.

Location: A New York Street. A man stops a passer by and says, 'Pardon me, but how do you get to Madison Square Garden?'

The stranger stares at him and gives a one word answer, "Talent."


Entered at Wed Mar 25 08:32:53 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Jan - the heartiest glad tidings [subtle Van link :-0)] regarding your son's amazing success. I've been waiting for an opportunity. The sense of pride your family must all be feeling must truly be something. At the same time, commiserations re your alcohol problem. There's not much more sadder things in life than someone who can drink like a fish yet is unable to get pissed!! It is not what God intended!

:-0)

Whilst on the congrats theme of GB'ers with hugely talented offspring it would be remiss not to give another mention to Bob F and his insanely gifted daughter.

Jeff - I empathise with all the disadvantaged poor souls at the arse end of the music industry. As a proud yet entirely disillusioned professional gobshite of 46 years in the construction industry who's been shafted more times than Mae West do forgive me if my empathy does only go so far.

:-0)

Pat. There is possibly nobody outside of the five original members and john Simon with more insight into the intrumentation of the OQ than your goodself. I like to think my emotional insight into the OQ is up there with any fecker and I can detect even the most subtle distinctions and inflections when it comes to every vocal they've ever laid down. However, as for who's playing what I'll bow graciously to the real afficianado - namely your goodself.

I do have to say, though, that I am a mite disappointed it wasn't Richard. Clearly the intricacy and delicacy of the accompaniment pointed to Garth but watching the video and seeing Richard jigging about behind the piano clearly kidded me and got me thinking wishfully in line with your 'driving the bus' analogy.

Perhaps you would enlighten me as to what dear Richard was up to behind his upright joanna. Was he simply desperate for a wee!!

:-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 24 23:15:22 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.167)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Jan, I'm glad your son is successful. And clean living. Having seen you in a little action, I agree that you'd be a good face for a alcohol brand :-) Folks, the guy knocks em back like he's drinking water. No visible effects. And he must have a wooden leg, cause he didn't have to take a piss.


Entered at Tue Mar 24 22:11:33 CET 2015 from (24.164.132.250)

Posted by:

jh

Jeff, I don't know much about roadies these days, the only people I know from the (relative) high-end of the music biz are the ones working with and for my son -- no equipment to lug there except for an USB stick and a MacBook. And they are all *incredibly* well-behaved, both the musicians/producers and the rest of the crew. When we go out with them, or hang backstage at gigs, I am the one who indulges. I am usually also the oldest... Btw, a rather famous vodka brand offered his management serious money the other day, for starring in a commercial for their fine products. And he does not drink any alcohol at all! I told him to do it, take the money and run. I even offered to be a stand-in for the drinking parts :-) But they turned it down.


Entered at Tue Mar 24 21:09:17 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Van Morrison

Grab the latest "Uncut" it has fascinating interviews with people involved with ten Van Morrison albums, including Astral Weeks, and a long bit from the Man himself.


Entered at Tue Mar 24 20:30:07 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey
Web: My link

Subject: Astral Weeks

I just came across this article about 'Astral Weeks'. Interesting stuff. It seems that Peter Wolf recorded an early performance of 'Astral Weeks' at a club in Boston. It would be remarkable if this tape sees the light of day. I don't think there's much if any live Van in circulation prior to 1970.


Entered at Tue Mar 24 18:55:40 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: the vinyl resurgence (what, again?)

Another article on the improbable comeback of the vinyl record -- from a Canuckistanian perspective.

Emphasis on the social aspect, including a consideration I hadn't considered:

“Also, you don’t see a bunch of dudes hanging out rolling up a doobie on the back of an iPod, do you?”


Entered at Tue Mar 24 18:05:12 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.167)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: see the below link

Life on the road, that impossible way of life, has apparently changed a lot at the higher levels. Roadies goign to the louvre, and fiannce workers being more drink & drug abusive than roadies. ...Does the same hold true for the acts?.....

Regardless, the quality of the acts - who's doing the choosing today- meaning what;s the selection process, what does musical value have t do with who gets to tour today, where does quality of music enter into the process by which music runs the gauntlet & get exposed , & get to tour?

The bands & musicians trying to gain coverage, the really good or possibly good bands & musicians, those are the ones that are trying to get gigs, but are faced with deals like working for half the door with a 10 buck cover charge.
Duking it out on the road, maybe losing money, trying to make ends meet, living in a van....It's an impossible process..... i know more A list players than you can imagine who are starving here...... seasoned vets, men & women, absolute joys to listen to, great bands, great projects, none of us can get ourselves arrested, getting gigs, getting guarantees for today is a joke, the guarantees are insulting, & even with the cut of the bar,the deal is always worse than the door deal might be on a good night .....then look at what i t takes just for acts to develop material, learn material, get tight, and now they can't get gigs to build their base, maybe get to the point of touring for real

So everything in that article becomes moot..... it's for the older famous acts, and it's for the stuff that can build fan bases on You Tube. You gpt to find the way to reach that level
& it's become more & more impossible. Corporate sponsorship of some kind....

Gotta run, but there's more & more ridiculous types of that happening now too... Ford C Max, Songcraft sessions... google it Write & record a song in a day


Entered at Tue Mar 24 17:43:53 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.167)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Hit The Road Jack

I linked an interesting NY Times article with info on modern day roadies, modern day roadies incomes, stats on album sales compared to 1994, and some stats regarding music industry jobs.


Entered at Tue Mar 24 16:44:56 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Al E, it is with great pain that I must tell you--it's Garth on piano on Time To Kill.


Entered at Tue Mar 24 14:43:07 CET 2015 from (80.113.5.98)

Posted by:

Dirk

Location: the Netherlands

Subject: basement tapes

thanks Peter! Little chance of laying my hands on one of the 2000 copies here in the Netherlands. But the standard version will do! Hopefully with some Band songs, which lacked on Bootleg series 11.


Entered at Tue Mar 24 12:58:23 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Pat's reflection on Richard at Pittsburgh - just take Time To Kill

Possibly the song that many might regard as the least best on Stagefright - though always a special one for me as it's the first record I bought for the missus [hmmm, maybe I should actually be regretting it then - never mind :-0)]

Anyfrogandtoad you listen to Richard's piano on that track and Cor blimey you wonder has a background accompaniment ever taken you on more of a delightfully melodic journey than what Richard does on that song. He is all over it like a measles epidemic without for even one solitary moment being remotely intrusive. Wondrous.

:-0)

Thought I'd throw a few Cockney Rhymings in there for you Bill seeing as you love them so much me arl cock sparra!!

:-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 24 10:58:51 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Sorry, Dirk. You were looking for content. It looks like a plain white numbered sleeve with Garth's autograph. Limited to 2000 Mono 180g vinyl, but also a "standard vinyl" too, presumably in larger quantities. The choice of tracks will be fascinating … chance of getting one of the 2000 is slight - we're in London on the day and I'm not going to queue overnight!


Entered at Tue Mar 24 10:52:49 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Record Store Day 2015

What I found, Dirk:

Bob Dylan – ‘The Basement Tapes’

Format: 12″ Vinyl

Label: Other Peoples Music

Release type: RSD Exclusive Release

More Info: The Basement Tapes recorded in 1967 while Bob Dylan recuperated and features many Dylan songs that had appeared on bootleg records prior to the “official” release in 1975. The recording took place in Woodstock and features four members of the Hawks (Rick Danko, Garth Hudson, Richard Manuel and Robbie Robertson – and one American, Levon Helm) better known today as The Band.

Individually autographed and numbered by Garth Hudson.


Entered at Tue Mar 24 10:34:13 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Good one, Bill. I’m a bit dubious about “Baracks” anyway. Some clever journalist got articles syndicated last year on “new” rhyming slang, leading with “Baracks” (Barack Obamas = pyjamas). This followed articles the year before, probably from the same source, on the disappearance of rhyming slang. I suspect that it only exists among older Black Cab drivers who deliberately maintain it as part of our tourist trade (aka Heritage Industry) to amuse customers. I suspect they have classes on it in Taxi Driver training schools, and that it’s part of the famed “The Knowledge.” But our capital does have the best taxi drivers in the world. They have to be able to take you to any address in London WITHOUT using a SatNav. We had a great one last week (mentioned in my The Ruling Class review) who actually used that phrase “I have(n’t) had (X) in the back of my cab" and used the correct form of address to Mrs V. (Darlin').


Entered at Tue Mar 24 09:15:34 CET 2015 from (80.113.5.98)

Posted by:

dirk

Location: the Netherlands

Subject: basement tapes

Hi, anyone has any idea what might be on the 'basement tapes' record coming out at Record Store Day this April?


Entered at Tue Mar 24 03:05:14 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.124)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: 43 million streams = $ 2,700.00 in royalties

see the link :"Despite Pharrell's ubiquity, "Happy" made $2,700 in publisher and songwriter royalties from 43 million Pandora streams in the first quarter of 2014, "


Entered at Tue Mar 24 01:49:31 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.31)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: They house the privates - but where's the rhyme?


Entered at Tue Mar 24 01:05:38 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

I LOVE Al Edge's enthusiasm about the Syria Mosque 1970 gig. Why do any fans bother with bootlegs? I adore LIVE AT THE ACADEMY 1971, even bought multiple copies. The sound quality is awesome. But it's a completely different entity from Syria Mosque 1970 or any other gig. Diehard fans want to hear EVERYTHING that exists from the artist they love. Live recordings of the OQ from 1968-1978 are just pure gold. If Capitol wants to release a live title, I will buy it for $20, $60, $100, whatever it costs. Or if it isn't released, I'll keep the boot!


Entered at Mon Mar 23 22:59:34 CET 2015 from (24.164.132.250)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

The OQ played there in '69, then again with BD five years later. Then, Friday and Saturday last week....


Entered at Mon Mar 23 21:52:00 CET 2015 from (76.71.4.29)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Funny thing about epiphanies and The Band…..when a year or two back, someone directed us all two a major find of a 1976 concert….I almost couldn’t believe what I was watching as so strongly had TLW been ingrained in my mind and memory that it had almost become a myth…..was there really another version of IMND, these sorts of things………then seeing that concert and the dominance of Robbie’s guitar and Levon’s slightly different but still great take on a few songs…..Richard’s was struggling but he was there and singing……not sure I would want any of it to listen to again but I understood the excitement….. Just as I understood Al’s excitement over the Pittsburgh show. Yes, I went right to the end of The Rumour to hear what he was talking about and listened for Pat’s point about Richard’s driving the bus……….anyhow, thanks for holding back Al…..I joke about a lot of things but I would never directly poke at anybody’s joy……ever.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 20:56:09 CET 2015 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Thank you , joe j.

No Fogo yet. But when I get out that way, will go to Fogo! Thank you for very nice link.

The issue on Macs is Malware and Adware for those unwary.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 20:53:49 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: Dylan & Petty tour

Tanks all for a the nice words on Little Pink the other day, much appreciated!

Found this on the civilization fanatics forum by 'aimeeandbeatles'. On the link Dylan plays happy birthday.

"I thought that subject of the 1986 & 1987 tours would be very good. I hope it does not turn into a bunch of complaining people. So I will red-diamond this so the mods will make sure it goes OK. So anyways I don't know how many people know. But during '1986 and part of 1987 Bob Dylan toured with Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers as his support band. But I will now post more background behind here: In 1985, there was made a new benefit called Farm Aid. Which was sort of like Live Aid but for farmers. So anyways Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers were scheduled to play. And so was Bob Dylan. And Petty's manager and Dylan's manager were partners. And at least one of the Heartbreakers (Benmont Tench) had played with Dylan in the past. So Petty and the Heartbreakers agreed to back for Bob Dylan. So they went to a week-long rehearsal and did a lot of songs. Here's from an article I have: Quote: “We spent a week rehearsing for Farm Aid, and we would play a lot every night. Hours and hours and hours. We did Hank Williams songs, Motown songs (‘I Second That Emotion’). We even played ‘Louie Louie’ one night. And ‘Then He Kissed Me,’ the old Crystals song. When we went to the gig, we only did 20 minutes, so everyone was saying, ‘Boy, it’s a shame we can’t really play for a while.’ “I think Bob’s attracted to the idea of working with a group,” Petty continued. “A handpicked band of good players doesn’t always make a great band. Somebody like him needs a sympathetic unit that understands that music. He told me, ‘This band is like talking to one guy.’” Oh, and I forgot to say this. I have a video. With both Petty and Dylan's sets at the Farm Aid benefit. Petty seems to be having a blast! Which was missing from Pack Up The Plantation, which was filmed just maybe a month before. I think maybe Petty had a bit of burnout at the time. So anyways that worked OK. And then Petty & Co. got invited to go on the Australia, New Zealand, and Japan tour with Dylan. So they did that. And at this time nobody was sure it was coming to the U.S. And a home video was made. It was on HBO (Home Box Office). And later released as a VHS called Hard to Handle. I have a copy of the video. It's actually quite nice to watch. So then that happened. And then they went into the studio to record Dylan's album, which was Knocked Out Loaded. There was a song co-written by Petty and Dylan and recorded with the Heartbreakers. "Got My Mind Made Up." Dylan changed all of Petty's words (the original version was a bit of a generic love song). But anyways also there was recorded another song, Band of the Hand, which was for a movie... I think. But Petty produced that and the Heartbreakers played on it, and I consider it a quasi-Heartbreakers song. So anyways at the same time Petty and Heartbreakers recorded the album "Let Me Up (I've Had Enough)." Which was done extremely quickly compared to some of the albums. Also Jammin' Me was co-written with Dylan. Which led to one review of the album referring to the "Dylanesque Jammin' Me" and me screaming at it "READ THE LINER NOTES DOOFUS!" But that's off-topic. So they went back on tour in the U.S. And they did the second Farm Aid. But they weren't actually at it. What they did was they filmed the show in Orchard Park, N.Y. and I think it was telecast over. But I have the entire show on a video. Also the Grateful Dead were at some of those shows. I have a list of dates somewhere but I'll look them up on request. So that was good, they did a lot of shows. And then took a break. Petty sued B.F. Goodrich for using a soundalike in a commercial (he won), released Let Me Up (critically a success but commercially a failure), and got his house burned down. But then a few days later he was on tour. But it was his own tour. The 1987 Rock & Roll Caravan. He had two openers, the Del Fuegos and the Georgia Satellites. And he got a little bit political and talked about trusting condoms more than Ollie North. So that was OK. And then they went back on tour again, this time with Roger McGuinn, to the middle-east (including Israel) and to Europe. At the very end they went to England to perform some shows at the Wembley. And there they ran into George Harrison and Jeff Lynne, right about to release Cloud 9.... Now, which band had Petty, Dylan, Harrison and Lynne? So anyways theres your primer. Now I will post some interesting stuff! -- At a press conference this happened: Quote: At a recent American press conference, hailed to announce their joint tour, Bob Dylan and Tom Petty stunned journalists by turning up sporting elaborate make-up which would have done Joan Collins proud. Petty wore a deathly white foundation, heavy duty mascara and lots of baby pink highlighters. Dylan opted for a thick layer of orange-tinted fake tan and ended up looking like a baked bean. Now this sort of behavior is all very well for chaps like Boy George, but this pair are supposed to be clean-cut, straight-shooting rock'n'roll stars. "We were stuck backstage for over an hour and we just got bored," drawled Petty. "So we just let the make-up artists get on with it because we had nothing else to do." -- At another press conference: Quote: Why is he touring with the Heartbreakers? "We just felt like it," said Dylan. Said Petty: "Money." Very subtle, Tom! -- In Australia, Stevie Nicks tagged along.... (it was mentioned that she always seems to show up where Tom was.) But anyways Dylan pulled her on stage. But then Australia threatened to deport her if it happened again. I've got a video of the performance. -- Dylan and Heartbreakers drummer Stan Lynch one skipped rehearsal to go see Sammy Davis and Frank Sinatra. -- At one show.... Well I'll just copy and paste it: Quote: I heard about a show you did with Dylan outside of San Francisco; when the stage was darkened during a break, Bob Dylan fell over. You rushed over, looked down, and reported to your band, “Bob Dylan is dead.” Did I really say that? [Gives a quizzical look, as if to confirm] I remember that show, what a night! Me and Stan got in a big fight, and I left the stage. Stan was wound-up about something, and he gave me the finger during the show. I just took my guitar and walked off. Left. They didn’t know what to do. And I guess Al Kooper sat in, and they just carried on with Al. I went to my dressing room realty mad, I wouldn’t come out. Then Bob came in and said, “Come on, come back. John Lee Hooker is here and he’s going to play. Come on. Let’s go play with John Lee Hooker.” I was still mad, but I went back to the stage. Then John Lee Hooker came out and kicked our asses. He was just transcendental. I remember Bob walking across the back telling us, “Don’t change chords with John Lee Hooker, he doesn’t change chords.” And Bob fell over. That was some night. -- At still (another show), it was bassist Howie Epstein's birthday. And they sing Happy Birthday and bring out a cake on stage. I have a video. -- Mike Campbell: "During one show in Australia, we were supposed to do 'When the Night Comes Falling from the Sky,' and (Dylan) didn't feel like doing it," Campbell remembered. "He turned around to me and said, 'You know the chords for 'All Along the Watchtower,' don't you,' and we'd never rehearsed it. I said, "There's only three, right?' And he said, 'Yeah, Let's go.'" -- In Egypt, Tom Petty rode a camel. -- In Israel, Tom Petty supposedly threw a temper tantrum because the kosher hotel they were staying in didn't have bacon and eggs. -- At one show in Wembley, George Harrison came on stage! -- And backstage at Wembley (October 1987).... Quote: Was it while touring with Dylan that you heard an advance tape of George Harrison’s Cloud Nine, produced by Jeff Lynne? tp: Yeah. And I loved it. We played in Birmingham [England] with Bob and then a few weeks later we played London for a few nights. I think we were there for three or four nights in Wembley. On the first night in Birmingham, George Harrison and Jeff Lynne came to visit. And Bob was not feeling well. He was not really around before the show, and then he didn’t want to hang around afterwards too much. It was funny—that first night we were in London, when we had that great time, a hurricane hit. In London. Completely unannounced and unpredicted by the weather bureau. I always thought that [hurricane] had something to do with changing my life. This literal hurricane. The Hindus think that when you meet someone and you feel really close to them immediately, that maybe you knew them in a past life. And that was how it was with George. We met each other and instantly became really close. Instantly we became very close. And I remember him saying to me, ‘You know, I’m not going to let you out of my life now.’ And it wasn’t about The Beatles or anything like that. We really got along well. And shared a sense of humor. And we became very close friends. And Jeff, too. So we hung out, and one night we really had a nice time, after the gig we hung out for hours with George, and Ringo was there and Derek Taylor [music journalist, former Beatles publicist, and collaborator on George Harrison’s autobiography, I, Me, Mine]. And all of their wives. And we hung out, and we had a lot of laughs. And then the next night was my birthday. I have a photo. They brought me a little birthday cake. And there’s a photo of me and George and McGuinn and Bob and Mike, and we’re all backstage laughing. And it looks pretty accurate. "


Entered at Mon Mar 23 20:42:22 CET 2015 from (24.222.133.194)

Posted by:

joe j

Web: My link

I like Peter V's comment on the unadorned Band. Not that there's anything wrong with horns as my Band epiphany came with ROA.

Link is for JT re Hey Rosetta. Apologize if I posted it before. I love the band live but their recordings don't always work for me. The linked video is special because it was filmed a couple islands away on Fogo. What? You've never danced at the Fogo a Go Go? The Fogo Inn is a high end tourist destination (google Trip Advisor). The Brimstone Head Folk Festival is difficult to attend because of the ferry issues and lack of accommodations (can't afford The Inn but for special occasions) but worth it if you can make it. Of course Brimstone Head is one of the four corners of the earth according to the Flat Earth Society.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 19:45:55 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Old boots

Cheers for explanation Kev. Glad I didn't jump in. It would have been entirely misplaced as I now see the reason for your own slight pique which was nothing at all to do with my own joy. More your own indifference to boots per se.

And ironically I feel pretty much the same way about boots. I've not listened to that many but invariably those I have acquired down the years have tended to leave me a bit meh as they now say. And like yourself, too, I adore the Academy CD.

For there's no downside to it at all except as Pete rightly says as incredible as it is it simply isn't the OQ on their ownsome - a perfect represntation of which is what I've always craved to hear.

And Pittsburgh gave me that. After all these years I finally got to hear them just as I'd always envisaged them. Musical and vocal perfection.

Dare I say it was for me an epiphany - a truly uplifting and emotional listening experience. I'd kind of given up on ever hearing anything remotely approaching it.

Yet there it was unfolding before me in all its glory. Gem after gem. Incredible vocal after incredible vocal. Each and everyone so wonderfully unique in their delivery. Matchless musical tightness yet just enough space to pick out each player. Too amazing to be true. Yet there it was. And is. Right now indeed. As I type this.

:-0)


Entered at Mon Mar 23 18:59:49 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

There's no question that the sound quality varies tremendously on bootlegs. Some are very good (Academy of Outtakes, Roosevelt Stadium) others are lousy (Royal Albert Rags). The same holds true of officially released cd's. The 'Rick Danko In Concert' cd released on Woodstock records has mediocre sound quality. I have an officially released live cd by Detroit, Mitch Ryder's post Detroit Wheels band, which has terrible sound quality.

Just because a recording is released by a legitimate label, the contents are not always as described. The Band 'Live at Watkins Glen' cd is a pretty extreme example of false advertising. A more common practice is for labels to release albums with re-recordings or live recordings which were not identified accurately on the front or back cover.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 18:26:16 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I hasten to add that General Sickles losng, not an an & a leg, but just a leg was n my birthday. NOT today.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 18:12:58 CET 2015 from (76.71.4.29)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Al….My comments were inspired by the Simon link….imagining all of us ( me included ! ) bent over on a couch checking an iPad link and trying – as I always try – to get more volume out of that damn ipad just to hear a bootleg copy of a concert from 44 years ago…….and just as those kids in Simon’s LINK had a masterpiece within 10 feet of them…..that is how close my copy of “Live at the Academy of Music” was from me….all I had to do was turn around and turn it on…….yes, yes, horns and all that but that album and the original ROA are very special to me. My entry point to The Band and for me it is everything I really need to bathe in the glory of the early Q5…..Unlike a Dylan who would toss out major rearrangements of songs, our guys largely played them straight ( arrangements, that is )

Bootlegs, in general……I’ve never participated……..years ago, when browsing in a record store on Yonge street, I guy walked over and said in hushed tones,,” ah, this is from the 83 tour” or something like that as I had picked up an odd looking cassette…..anyway, it was a Kinks bootleg….I purchased it but the sound was awful……..1992, I was in Hanoi at Christmas and while walking around a market earlier in the day, we decided on a $2 limit on gifts – such were some of the deals on things there at that time and just to have some fun……anyway, I settled on some sort of mother-of-pearl thing and in return rec’d an Eagles live bootleg. Like all trips with girlfriends, there is always a point when you just know things have gone pear shaped…..This was that point, but it actually also provided much laughter as the recording was so bad that it was funny…………..No doubt that Henley and Frey have since had the poor sap that recorded this on a $10 cassette recorder hunted down and shot…………………….Anyhow……I recall a few years ago when Maud Hudson joined the GB and railed against Bootlegging…..In defense of the practise, Peter made the point that the folks who purchase bootlegs are also the same ones that purchase any and everything new. I largely agree with that point……..but I do wonder if a 17 year old kid that is just getting turned onto the Band today, will buy a new copy of Live at the Acadamy or just download a bootleg......Maybe, LATAOM only provided Garth and the others with $30,000-$40,000 - who knows but whatever it was, it was better than nothing.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 18:10:21 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

General Sickles! And on my birthday too, Pat. Go on …


Entered at Mon Mar 23 16:22:15 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

If this cockney footsie thing keeps up, I'm gonna start expounding on Dan Sickles' horrible handling of the III Corps on the second day of fighting at Gettysburg--and you don't want that.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 16:12:10 CET 2015 from (68.232.68.198)

Posted by:

Bill M

I rest my case.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 15:35:19 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Wot, Bill? No Cockey Sparrer? Would you Adam 'n' Eve It! With the right Barclays you sometimes get posting, who just come here for a Darby & Joan, it gives me a pain in the Kyber, as some of them are total Hamptons. Anyway, can't hang around here, after the last cup of Rosie Lee I need a Jimmy Riddle.

A noted recent one, BTW is "Baracks" which means "pajamas." Work it out.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 14:47:34 CET 2015 from (68.232.68.198)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

Al E: I'm fine with you and your compatriots talking all you want about footsie. It's cockney rhyming slang that I find irritating.

Pat B: The link's for your benefit, because I suspect that you know Jim Peterik, who is mentioned maybe two-thirds of the way through the article. I know his name only from Ides of March credits and wasn't aware of his role in Survivor. The focus of the following paragraph, Pat Travers, has something of a Band-link insofar as I saw him onstage with Levon, Hawkins, Penfound, Dr John et many al in a massive "Bo Diddley" / "Who Do You Love" jam.

Yesterday an aged relative, who runs the library in her seniors building, gave me a copy of a March 1964 Canadian C&W magazine. There's a picture of Johnny Cash with wife pre-June Vivian and his kids, including Roseanne, there's a picture of up-and-comer Glen Campbell, who'd recently signed on to be the star of a Canadian C&W TV series (something that was news to me, and that also puts in question the Wrecking Crew's claim that nobody knew he could sing), and little features on a couple Toronto locals who figured tangentially in the Hawks's days here - pianist Johnny Coy, who'd filled in for somebody - Jones or Szelest presumably - circa 1960, and singer Terry Roberts, a fixture at the Edison Hotel on Yonge Street.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 13:16:08 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Bob - Ha Ha.

To be fair i'm that shellshocked after yesterday I actually might have been without actually realising it!!

Pete - got to say I've kind of overlooked it as I've been so preoccupied with our own recent effort to re-enter the top 4 race but what's going on down there will be one hell of an achievement if you can manage to pull it off. I'm sure the entire area must be buzzing with the prospect. It's like a shaft of pure old school footy amidst an ocean of greed, extravagance and contempt for the ordinary fan.

T'riffic - as your old mainstay Harry would say

:-0)


Entered at Mon Mar 23 12:41:56 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.179)

Posted by:

Bob F

Al, it took me awhile to realize you weren't talking about 'Daniel and The Sacred Harp.'

Peter, I picked up a virus on my Mac this weekend. I was trying to download Open Office and all hell broke loose. I have pop ups popping up all over the place. I have no idea how to fix it.

I listen to 99% of my music on my IPOD or IPHONE. I'm always working and I get to have music playing all day with these devices. The way the world is now you have to work twice as hard to have half of what you use to have. Who has time to sit around listening to vinyl or cd's?


Entered at Mon Mar 23 11:24:22 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Al, I think Kevin was feeling a bit sore about the price he’d paid for that replica MU Wayne Rooney shirt. The point about Syria Mosque is this is the “unadorned” Band. No horn section. As most 1970 / 71 concerts were, not a special occasion. It’s also a year earlier.

As you know, football should not be compared to religion. It’s more important than that. Here we sit twisting our handkerchiefs. Can we sustain it and get in the top division for the first time in our history? We must have been top of the Championship for more weeks than any team this year, and our goal difference is 10 higher than the nearest rival. Then if we do, and even if we don’t, we probably have the young English manager of the year. Will he stay? If there is a promotion, he will hopefully feel “let’s see how far we can go with this” but I can see one of the big five or six casting extremely covetous eyes our way. Back in August, Rod Liddle was astute in suggesting Bournemouth as one of the teams to watch this year.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 09:28:57 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Si [includes boring footy stuff so anyone else please accept my apologies and look away]

Awrite mate.

Boneshaker that wasn't it?

Posted this reflection on one of the LF sites. be interested to get your slant Si.

I think you have to go a bit deeper K-O.

I posted what I'm about to say in more detail a few pages back but it's worth i think raising the issue again since a] it's absolutely crucial to the remaining games if we're serious about keping alive the now significantly dwindling chance of top four and b] the significance of it seems to have been overlooked

The run to which you refer has, in broad terms, two distinct phases. Pre Daniel and post Daniel.

Pre-daniel with Sterling on fire up front central and Coutinho also nigh unplayable we looked pretty awesome and the results came from performances that merited those results due to some impressive offensive play. It included the Man City game to which you refer. I think Daniel came on for markovich late on in the game.

Post Daniel we've continued getting the results but it has not been on the back of the same overall level of performance and has depended to a large part on brilliant goalkeeping and brilliant individual goals from Coutinho and Henderson with a clutch from Sturridge too of course.

The worrying aspect is that since coming back Sturridge has settled into the groove of a performance level that is simply not providing anything like the energy and spark that Sterling was providing in the same role in the earlier part of the run. I know he has scored during this time - and he remains a brilliant striker and our only real striker worthy of the name at this time - but on his own in that central front attacking role in overall terms he is just not providing what we need and that absence of what we do need seems to be filtering back through the team.

The fact it has coincided with Ibe's injury and an apparent form dip from Markovich who doesn't even seem to be coming into contention for selection right now doesn't help. Also it's clear Sterling out wide is providing nothing like the contribution he was delivering when in that central front attacking role. So there's a bit of a double even triple whammy going on.

A month or so ago in terms of performance levels we were beginning to look like the best team around. This past four or five games - despite positive results [yesterday apart] we look nothing like it.

I feel myself it's a knock on effect from the introduction and perseverence with the currently [I'm sure it's only a temporary thing] inneffectual Daniel. I've not heard or read or more significantly seen evidence of anything which provides any insight that it's anything other than that. But the fact remains whether I'm right or wrong there's a stark difference between the two spells in terms of overall performance levels. At a time when it seems we were brewing very nicely we suddenly went off the boil. And right now we need to do what we can to bring it back to the boil.


Entered at Mon Mar 23 08:34:26 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: a bit like here where instead of going gaga over downloaded boots

Before jumping in with both feet I'll just double check you're having one of your occasional snide pops Kev - in this instance at my own unbridled enthusiasm for the Pittsburgh show.

:-0)


Entered at Mon Mar 23 01:59:36 CET 2015 from (24.114.66.166)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Simon: Good seeing you back.....Brilliant link that says so much......maybe those kids were just pissed at the admission price and were looking to warn friends to download "Night Watch".............a bit like here where instead of going gaga over downloaded boots....why not just buy "Live at the Acadamy of Music" - same songs, better sound.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 23:45:54 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Dunc, celebrating Scottish/Celtic victories will always be welcomed here. btw, 100% Irish.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 22:21:43 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Bit Torrent is an incredible way to share unofficial live recordings. Basically someone like me has audio they want to share, and they rip it to the computer LOSSLESS (meaning CD quality WAV files, no mp3 or loss of quality), and then I go to whichever live music bit torrent site I choose, and upload it there. Fans from around the world who are members of whichever site, download the files from me and from each other. As more people download, more people are "seeding" for others to download. The ONLY thing that gets downloaded is what was in the initial file post, there are systems and "checksums" in place that prevent any type of virus from being distributed (either from me the original poster, or from another user sharing the data). Then you have your WAV files on your computer, and you burn them for your own use.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 22:16:51 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

John, I could send you a disc of the Syria Mosque show through the mail. Or could send you a download link. Downloading from YouTube would be perfectly safe, though the quality would not be full. Otherwise, the way to get Syria Mosque is through various bit torrent sites. What's your email?


Entered at Sun Mar 22 21:15:27 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Peter V

I haven't had that offer Peter; but thank you.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 21:08:19 CET 2015 from (65.93.116.167)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Pat, I'm in deep admiration of anyone who has written a book, particularly one in longhand. As for myself, I have my sole novel in the back of my head but no fortitude to write it. Aspiring to be a newspaper reporter but incapable of typing, I took my scheduled first job week off and closeted myself with a typewriter, mastering the two-finger technique in five days. It serves me still.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 21:02:04 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

John D, you wouldn't be downloading the audio files from YouTube but from Adam, I assume. I would trust that implicitly. Macs get far fewer viruses ; which does not mean none. You should check and empty the trash regularly.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 20:58:54 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Because we used to buy a Kodak B&W film with just 12 shots, very little of our past is recorded. BUT the day we went to Stirling Castle and the Wallace Monument in Autumn 1970 is. Three of the band I was working with went to the cinema in Stirling, the other two came with me and did Stirling Castle and the Wallace Monument. There were many jokes about what it would be like carrying a Hammond organ up to the top!


Entered at Sun Mar 22 20:55:56 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Syria Mosque ellind90 / Adam & Peter

Just a little clarification here. Adam you have said that ellind90 is the place to go for Syria Mosque. Peter you put up a post about the dangers of downloading; which we should know all about. I ask both of you if you think there is any danger in downloading Syria Mosque from youtube for my own personal listening? I know some of you have talked about owning these tracks. Was there any problem with viruses?

Sorry for the mix up earlier Adam. From people congratulating you on your Syria Mosque edits etc. I was under the impression there were some here that had heard them. Since going "MAC" in May I was under a couple of misconceptions. First. you can get viruses on a Mac and the other is dragging a file to the trash does not mean the entire file is gone. Thanks.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 20:43:36 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland
Web: My link

Subject: Pat B

Here's a link to Stirling Castle. Do you have a family link to Stirling, although with your name I would think your roots would be Irish?

I have seen Americans overcome that they had reached Mull. Very moving.

I better stop posting non Band posts. Band link. You can't get a more Scottish name than Robbie Robertson.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 20:29:54 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Dunc, you're killing me--castles, monuments, and battlefields. That would make a perfect afternoon.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 20:24:44 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Pat B

Travel through Stirling every three weeks., Pat and every so often visit for the day. Great castle, site of the Wallace monument and the site of the Battle of Bannockburn has recently had a new visitors' centre which I want to see.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 20:20:07 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Dunc, I'm with you 100%, including the one-handed urinator. Do you get to Stirling ofter?


Entered at Sun Mar 22 20:17:48 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Mike, you and Jeff will be happy to know I wrote my first book with pen and blank paper. My index finger still has a callus on it from the abuse. Shelby Foote wrote with blank paper and a 200 year old calligraphy pen and ink. However, most professional writers used a typewriter as a matter of course and made the transition to computer quite easily.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 20:12:21 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Clever grandson

Oh, and your grandson is right. Clever wee bairn.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 20:09:17 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Paying the bills

Disgraceful treatment of your father in law, Peter.

I pay the electricity by direct debit, but phoned up (as we have been encouraged to by the government in the UK)to look for cheaper options. I could now make savings if I managed my account on line.

I pay BT £1.75 a month for a paper copy of a bill.

I pay £1.75 for caller display, but 'The Independent' exposed, a couple of weeks back, that if I had asked for this to be free, I would get it for free. But I haven't done this yet because I can't bear the thought of the two hour phone call. 'Please wait while we try to connect you. If you want this press 1, if you want this press 2' and so on.

It is shameful that loyal, long term, elderly customers like your father in law often pay more for their services than newer customers. This happens in the UK!


Entered at Sun Mar 22 19:38:56 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The trouble is, Dunc, that soon the electricity company will be penalizing you for not using an APP to control stuff. Like now, my father-in-law has to pay £10 extra per account for paying his electricity and gas and phone bills by cheque and post. Of course, they put it as "£10 discount for paying by direct debit or online." But effectively it means "We fine you £10 for not having a computer and distrusting direct debit because you're OLD."


Entered at Sun Mar 22 19:34:23 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I wrote this in a recent review. We were watching James McAvoy in “The Ruling Class” and the woman next to us took photos and then sent them with a long text message all the way through. You get the constant light of the screen in your peripheral vision.

My grandson is 18 months. When he sees an iPhone he grabs it and runs full speed to the kitchen, opens the wastebin and deposits it inside. We thought it bizarre until we realized it is based on his experience of the world with every adult constantly yabbering into the things. And he wants to stop them. The trouble is that he sees TV remote controls as Smart Phones too. But he’ll learn. I’m saying “iPhones – yes! TV controls – no!” but he just laughs and heads off towards the wastebin.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 19:29:20 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Internet

But you've got to keep up.

Do I buy a smart phone as I'm the only one in the family apart from my two year old grandson who doesn't have one? My other grandchildren in their early teens all have one.

I followed up an attached article from Jeff and used the internet to find out that the smart phone will become the most important vehicle for not only accessing music, but also playing music.

In the same week, my electricity company were promoting an app where I could change the temperature of my house using a smart phone.

And in the paper I read(still a paper copy) there was an article related to the requirements of what makes a good reporter, stating that to be skilled on the smart phone was essential, in addition to the more traditional skills such as being a good observer, analytical and literate.

So you've got to keep up guys.

Great picture Simon.

I have seen four members of a family in a restaurant all texting.

And I have honestly seen one guy in the pub toilet texting and peeing at the same time. Very skilful. One hand was on his smart phone and the other hand was...

Thanks Al and Jed.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 19:00:28 CET 2015 from (65.93.116.167)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Subject: pen & paper vs. keyboards

Jeff, with all due respect, I'd be wary about providing Pat with any set-up lines. :-)


Entered at Sun Mar 22 18:29:34 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: iPads

Jed, that's Apple technology. And according to my husband you can turn off the annoying feature which is changing your words on you. You go into "settings" and turn off the "auto correct" or "auto suggestion", and you'll be left in peace.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 18:20:13 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Internet

I came very late to the Internet too, and had to be dragged in kicking and screaming. I don't trust it either, or electrical outlets for that matter - all that electricity leaking out : ), but there's no question it's here to stay, for better or for worse. And there's no doubt it has its advantages. Much easier to look up a word than dragging out the dictionary (how lazy can you get), great for tracking down crossword clues, and for anyone who likes research it's a great boon. You just go link-hopping down the rabbit hole, and hours disappear like magic!

But for the rest of it, the Smart Phones, ipods, etc. you can have them. I agree they've gone a long way towards destroying personal interactions, and have led to all kinds of behavior that would not have been acceptable before. Quite a few times I've heard an angry commotion outside, and when I've looked to see what's going on, it's someone walking down the street screaming abuse into their phone. To say nothing of cyber-bullying and the viciousness you find in any comments section. And when people are away from their technology for even a short time, they start getting edgy. It's an addiction, for sure, and now I'm addicted too.

Pat, I'm not so sure about that. brown eyed girl, you're not really leaving again, are you?


Entered at Sun Mar 22 18:04:30 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.124)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I still prefer pen & paper. I can't imagine writing song lyrics on a computer. Playing with the lrics, yes. but the greater writing, hell no...

In general writing, there is an ease of using a computer, in terms of moving things around, editing,etc,but, there is also the possibility of loss if your computer flips out on you during the process.Or after, if you're not schooled and disciplined in backing up.

The process of putting pen to paper used to be a big part of activating my mind, developing & keeping my thoughts, taking them further..........it took years, but at some point i began to be able to feel the same cognitive ignition using a computer. but, because of nerve damage, I'm slow on a keyboard. Which i guess is okay cause my mind works more slowly these days anyway.But, the downside is that if pick y up speed i'll hit buttons that cause loss, etc

It's funny, but possibly the GB is one thing that got me used to thinking with a keyboard as opposed to only pen & paper.

But, like i've written many times, send me back to the seventies, eighties, even the nineties.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 17:24:23 CET 2015 from (165.120.6.189)

Posted by:

Simon

Web: My link

Jed - This photo says it all for me. Rembrandt's "Night Watch" versus the allure of mobile phones.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 17:17:39 CET 2015 from (173.237.187.244)

Posted by:

Bob

Web: My link

Subject: Very Happy

It has been such a long time since I have been here. Hello to all of you.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 17:14:55 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Royal Albert Rags is unsalvageable, but Strawberry Wine, Rockin Chair, and Cleveland from AMH--all from the same show--are brilliant. This would be the best live OQ from the period (June 71) other than ROA. I also love the Philadelphia boot from 69--not as high audio quality as Syria Mosque but awfully good for the time, and the performance is sterling.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 17:13:30 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Sitting reminiscing

I wrote my thesis with a pen too, Jed. But that was back in 1970. I found it useful because once it had been typed out, all spelling errors could be blamed on the typist, which got me off the hook. Thanks too for Wite Out, I’d forgotten this North American use. It all goes back to Liquid Paper invented by Mike Nesmith’s mum. In Britain it was either Tipp-Ex or Snopake, and you could create verbs and say “Have you snopaked / tippexed all the errors?” It’s amazing how it survived and that you can still buy it. Even by the early 1970s we were using IBM Selectric typewriters which had a white correction ribbon, so you didn’t need it. Though often we’d add a bit to photocopy masters.

Where it was used a lot was in design departments, where they’d use Letraset for lettering then tippex out the guide lines and proofing marks. It was also useful if you had to incorporate a picture, I remember tearing pictures out (never cut) putting them into a design then tippexing out the edges. If you has a straight cut, you needed vast amounts of Tippex to cover it.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 16:48:42 CET 2015 from (92.18.174.225)

Posted by:

Solomon

Subject: Technology - Spike Jonze on the Net

Has anyone seen the film Her ? It looks like one day we might all be dating an Operating System. I thought it was one of the best films of 2014.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 16:28:22 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Pens and paper

Not to sound like an ass(but I will) I wrote my doctoral dissertation with pen and pad-about 150 handwritten pages.The typist typed,I proofread and where necessary and useful we used whiteout.To me,whiteout was a big time invention.In the earlier days of email I politely asked an assistant to print my email.I'd read it,write my response(usually-love to discuss,what time can I call you to talk it over?),and my assistant would type/send.Eventually I became comfortable with it.I still tend to suggest we talk unless its a quickie item.I like the US Postal Service.I loved letters,pencils,paper,letter,hard line phones,whiteout,The Band,Bob,Allmans,Van,Dead,Neil Young,secretaries,typing,writing,erasers,pencil sharpeners,records,record stores.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 16:14:40 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Dunc

Love your posts! I'm probably more militant about my negative feelings(hatred?) of the Internet and most things technology than you might be.While I cannot deny deriving benefit from them,they more than equally frustrate and irritate me.Im no expert at them,know generally speaking how to avoid trouble,nonetheless,half or more of my involvement with technology is fixing them,losing important information-even now,as I type on this iPad I am forced to re type sections if the iPad decides to create its own word from the one I wrote.I just made four such corrections in the last sentence.And one in the last sentence!Geez-I find myself saying,at various points in the day,I hate this effin' thing!I seem to get along with people way better(and that's no easy task sometimes)than technology.Its just not a good relationship between me and it.And,those fucking iPhones-geez-these things have redesigned the social interaction of society.Noone talks or listens or attends to nuance,they type & text.No eye contact,too many devices to check.Pinging and ponging all day and night,never a real conversation without IT being the centerpiece of every social interaction that may occur between texts.And fucking Facebook,Instagram and all the exhibitionist,childish,me me me centered crap I don't understand-geez,we've created a generation of stalkers who are socially inept and socially anxious as a result.Ah,getting older-perhaps I sound like my parents.Heck,with all the talk of analytics in basketball,the game has undergone more radical changes in the last 5-10 years than in all of its prior history.Again,it provides advantages,but has created nightmares.Same for music,great advantages,but the music business as we knew it is over and done.Creativity suffers.But,yes,we're older so we've seen and heard all the greats!Two sentences ago when I wrote the word disadvantages the iPad changed it to advanced ages.Enough said.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 15:59:25 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: buying bootlegs vs downloading

Peter, I agree with nearly everything in your post. I'm 46 and I have never downloaded a song, let alone a bootleg. My wife gave me an ipod one years and I never used it.

I used to trade concert tapes back in the 90's and built up a pretty good collection of Band related concerts. Then I started buying bootleg cd's. I live about an hour south of New York, and I used to regularly make cd buying trips to the Village. There used to be multiple record stores that sold bootlegs within walking distance of Washington square park. Nearly all of them are long closed. I was fortunate enough to obtain original copies of many of the Band bootlegs listed in the bootleg section of the Band discography on this site.

Back in the 90's, original silver pressed cd bootlegs used to be $20-$25 per disc. I still come across original silver bootlegs in used record stores for generally $10-$15 per disc. I've gotten lucky on occasion and found some for considerably less. I recently bough a used copy of The Rolling Stones 'Get your leeds lungs out' on the Swingin' Pig label for $5.

With the resurgence in vinyl, this is a great time to buy used cd's. Titles that would have been priced between $8-$10 per disc a few years ago are now typically between $2-$6.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 14:05:49 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Little Richard

I went to look at Slippin' and Slidin' from Paris, then as you do, looked at the YouTube sidebar and found a whole British 1964 TV Show with Little Richard. "It's Little Richard" Granada TV, Manchester. I remember being completely bowled over by the show. Little Richard is backed by Sounds Incorporated (who backed nearly every UK tour then) and accompanied by The Shirelles. Now that IS rock 'n' roll.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 13:31:28 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

May Liverpool emulate Bournemouth and complete a great weekend (Bournemouth 3, Middlesborough 0 to place Bournemouth top of the Championship).


Entered at Sun Mar 22 12:32:40 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob f

Subject: Van The Man

I really like the Duets version of Real Real Gone with Michael Buble and Lord If I Needed Someone with Mavis. Van can still sing and the line "Sam Cooke on the radio" still get's me singing. The entire set is a pleasent surprise.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 12:24:08 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Dinosaurs

Ha ha.

Had to laugh when you portrayed yourself as a bit of a Luddite in your kids' eyes Pete. If you're even a tad that way then compared to you I'm Barney Rubble's great grandad mate!!!

:-0)

Love the T-shirt tale Dunc.

BTW - off to Anfield in 15 minutes. Pray for me fellas.

:-0)


Entered at Sun Mar 22 11:57:07 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Downloading

My (ex) publisher used to ask authors only to download from people like Apple or Microsoft on any computer that was preparing files for submission to them. That was a few years ago but it sticks in the mind. For me my main computer is work, not leisure. I'm very careful about what goes onto it.

I don't stream films either. My kids do and can't understand why I go and buy a Blu-Ray and put it in a machine. They bought us an Apple TV thing two years ago to encourage us, and we've never used it. They also got me a bootlegging mic for my iPad as I go to concerts. I can't explain that I would never dream of recording a concert surreptitiously. That's honesty, though I also recall where Peter Grant had roadies shove the equipment of caught bootleggers. Allegedly. However, the mic is good enough to do impromptu audio recording for potential ELT use so I was pleased to get it.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 11:09:04 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland.

Subject: T-shirt for senior citizens

First good weather of the year in Glasgow last week. Jackets off all round.

One elderly chap was wearing a T-shirt which said:

'I may be old - but I got to see all the good bands'.

As reported in the Herald.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 11:03:32 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Maybe Adam should get to work on Royal Albert Rags too, but I suspect from various hints that were dropped is that they have a proper soundboard recording somewhere. Against that, the Royal Albert Hall always had an atrocious acoustic, though a few years back they installed huge suspended baffles to soak some of the bounce and echo up. Still if they had a direct feed and a multi-track it might be there waiting. There was a cassette of the Hollywood Bowl 1970 one with Miles Davis in support around at one time, but I recall Levon saying in his book that it was a bad performance.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 11:01:09 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.209)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Download

I think that's a very good post, Peter. I would always want a hard copy because of the reasons you mention.

I think the quality when downloading does suffer.

I do worry about viruses having received one - several laptops back.

I don't want to rip off anybody. But like many people I would buy Syria Mosque concert (Thanks Adam) on a bootleg then replace it with an official release if this happened.

Historically, I don't trust the internet. In my working life I had to use on line forms to write reports on employees which would often crash in the early days. My wife had money stolen from an account when ordering something. I know how to avoid these perils now.

Although reasonably knowledgeable, I'm slow on the computer compared to younger generations. Remember I had to handwrite essays when at university.

Also, I don't want to spend too much time on my computer. Sadly in Scotland, some people are leading too sedentary lives and becoming obese. (There are many very fit families too). I 'd rather go walking or watch a local football team than spending time in front of a computer.

I miss the hunt of looking for albums, stepping out on a Saturday to go around tens of album shops. Blethering with the owners. But they are no longer there.

But it's not all bad being older. See next post.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 10:25:44 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: My take

Your closing sentence says it all to me Pete.

On Pittsburgh Richard IS fantastic. As are they all. As is the clarity of sound albeit at times uneven. But that uneveness is piffling detraction from the overall listening experience which I'm sure - and perhaps Pat and Bob F and Charlie Young amongst others might provide testimony of this - ranks as the sort of performance level of the OQ back then.

I realise the Albert hall Rags is celebrated on here - and you graciously sent me a copy of that years ago P - but whilst you can see they were at the zenith level for that show the sound on that bootleg is chalk and cheese in comparison to the clarity of Pittsburgh.

For me it means I simply don't listen to it. I derive far more rewards from the studio versions.

Pittsburgh is a different matter altogether. Every aspect of that is how you always dreamt it would be. For me after all these years it is like chancing upon the Holy Grail - The band as they have always been in my mind's eye. Musical and vocal perfection. I cannot overstate it.

Or maybe I can.

;-0)


Entered at Sun Mar 22 09:15:20 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Bootlegs and downloads

On bootlegs and downloads there is a mild generation gap. I spend a lot of time in secondhand and new record stores and at record fairs. I’ve discussed this. A lot of people are unsure about downloading. They fear viruses. They can’t conceive of it being “as good”; yes, it’s age. They’ll happily buy a bootleg CD, and the new market is bootleg vinyl AND semi-pirate vinyl. First we had bootlegs of classic early 70s bootlegs on vinyl. Then vinyl versions of really rare albums are popping up in new editions, and who knows what deal was made?

These download phobias are mainly (though not entirely with viruses) as unfounded as those of my grandparents who feared electricity leaking out of outlets at night. But a lot of people want the physical object and are suspicious of something free. If the tape tree creators charged a nominal $1 they’d feel better and both sides would know where it came from and where it went to.

Yes, some people are making large profits from bootlegs and they are taking from the artists in that they are not paying for their work. The fact that it was never released is irrelevant. If a burglar took my box of late teen scribblings and published it in a leather bound booklet as “Lost Poems of a Pimply Semi-Literate Youth” perhaps as poetry, or more likely and cruelly as “Humour” I would feel robbed when it sold tens of thousands. And I would feel robbed because I had no quality control over stuff with my name on that I thought not good enough for release.

The latest thing at Record Fairs is boxed sets. There was a “Complete Before The Flood” box set at £60 (or $90) recently. I wouldn’t touch it (at that price). I think it was 4 CDs, maybe 3CDs, and had all the Los Angeles concerts complete. I don’t think it’s interesting as I assume they cherry-picked the best for the original release and the sets were identical. But it’s Dylan. They’ll sell a load. Thee were other Dylan boxes at the £100 / £120 level. As we all know, by far the most expensive element on a bootleg CD is the package it comes in. CDRs are pennies.

It’s also “Let the buyer beware.” I’ve foolishly paid £15 for a double Van Morrison with nothing on it, and £10 for a Dylan that played the first track and that’s all. So in fact the downloads free are a safer bet, as well as having more care put into them. But I’m mildly reluctant to download, though I will, and compared to most of my age shuffling around record fairs, I am highly tech-savvy.

Ben’s correct that bootlegs can prompt official releases, not that they ever put out Woodstock, which sounds superb in its latest releases. Let’s hope they look to 1970 / 1971 and Syria Mosque or Royal Albert Hall, or a box of the best 70 / 71 stuff. It really shows listening to Syria that they were so much better as a full 5 piece, and that in some ways later they’re down to a 4.5 piece with Richard’s reliability. Presumably that’s why so much great material like We Can Talk and The Rumer got dropped. 1976 is well documented already. 1970 / 1971 is the place to go. And Richard is fantastic.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 07:43:27 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Ben, I certainly understand all of that. I just always stress that there is no need to pay for something the fans produced for free. My "Syria Mosque 1970" CDr I burn from the lossless files on my computer, is exactly the same as the "Syria Mosque 1970" burned CD someone buys for $30. All of these live releases we see that are grey market - "Palladium Circles", "King Biscuit" etc. - are from fan copies! In almost 100% of the cases, the fan distributed copies are much better sounding/cared for than the copies that get unofficially released on the grey market.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 06:13:44 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: bootlegs

Adam, Whether someone wants to download a file for free or pay for a physical copy of the recording is a personal choice. Since this concert hasn't been officially released, the artists haven't been "screwed" out of anything. The only way that they could lose money is if someone bought a pirated version of an official release.

In addition, most of the archival Band releases were preceded by a bootleg version. "Academy of Outtakes" came before "Live at the Academy", "The Complete Last Waltz" came before the Last Waltz box set and "Crossing the great divide" came before "A Musical History". I'm sure that these bootlegs had an influence on the later official releases and the bootlegs contain material not on the official release and vice versa, so the completist needs both the bootleg and official release.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 04:26:10 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

I don't have the Syria actually posted on my name, but I think ellind does...


Entered at Sun Mar 22 04:20:19 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Adam one mo' time

Adam found band1968 and the videos you mentioned; but I can't find your edits and sequence of syria mosque audios. Sorry for the confusion on my part


Entered at Sun Mar 22 03:25:01 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

pjlbrennanatmindspringdotcom

Bill M, I think BEG was quoting RR at the end of TLW.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 03:15:59 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Pat, what's your email?


Entered at Sun Mar 22 02:34:07 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.6)

Posted by:

Bill M

Bye BEG - don't stay away so long this time, eh!


Entered at Sun Mar 22 00:51:34 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

John, I am not - that guy is another huge concert recording Band fan, mostly audience. My Youtube name is "bandmusic1968"... you can see the videos of Tears Of Rage (Woodstock), Slippin' & Slidin' (Europe 1971), and Academy 1971 Outtakes...


Entered at Sun Mar 22 00:44:36 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Adam

Adam are you elind90 on YouTube? Can't find anything with the name Adam.


Entered at Sun Mar 22 00:29:14 CET 2015 from (177.125.56.10)

Posted by:

Alexandre Baiocchi

Location: Brazil

Subject: Rock'n'Roll fan

Thanks for the article! Regards, Alexandre


Entered at Sun Mar 22 00:10:53 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Ben - let me clarify my comment re: the bootlegging of the Syria Mosque show.

I edited/produced the "lossless WAV" files to a torrent site, and other Band/music fans could download completely free. There's no money exchanged, so the fans get to enjoy the recording that will never be officially released anyway, and Robbie & Garth do not get screwed out of money.

The bootleg company who made "Syria Mosque Legend" downloaded those same WAV files from that same torrent site, that all those Band/music fans got for free, and pressed a homemade silver disc and sold it for $30 across the world. It is the exact same files, audio, sound, sound level, etc., as my digital master, just taken and now sold for money. Don't pay the bootleggers! Share the music!


Entered at Sat Mar 21 23:54:35 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Hey Pat, I'd love to, what's the address?

Thank you much, everyone, enjoy the music!


Entered at Sat Mar 21 23:36:30 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Duets: Reworking the Catalogue

Listening in the car today. Stand out tracks for me are (if you want to sample):

These Are The Days (VM with Natalie Cole)

Streets of Arklow (VM with Mick Hucknall)

Born to Sing (VM with Chris Farlowe)

Rough God Goes Riding (VM with Shana Morrison)

Irish Heatrbeat (with Mark Knopfler).


Entered at Sat Mar 21 22:34:42 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Rolling Stone is streaming Van Morrison Duet's record. I really like most of it. This is the kind of thing that would have sold like hotcakes before people starting thinking music should be free.


Entered at Sat Mar 21 20:42:23 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Adam, email me. I have some news.


Entered at Sat Mar 21 18:57:32 CET 2015 from (108.41.170.168)

Posted by:

Joan

Adam, you rock! great job Thanks


Entered at Sat Mar 21 14:50:46 CET 2015 from (107.72.164.84)

Posted by:

Dan

Subject: Syria Mosque

Thank you Adam - really enjoyed Syria Mosque. The Stage Fright songs sounded breathable and bouncy and fit in more seamlessly as the first two albums. Makes me wonder whether time and John Simon would have kept that feel had he been in on the album production.


Entered at Sat Mar 21 14:34:26 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Pittsburgh

Pete - you're a star. Boundless thanks for that mate! Humbly appreciated. Endless plays await. Twice already!!

:-0)

Adam - if you're the one responsible then what can I say. Incredible work!

Ben, Jed et alia. Agreed. Obviously.

Pat, Jeff - I thought the stalwarts would already have it. What a find.

:-0)


Entered at Sat Mar 21 12:43:42 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Thanks Mike / Norbert again

Thanks Mike on behalf of the Old World.

My neighbour a fisherman used to say :"The Northern wind is always cold - even if it blows from the South." I have modified it a bit and this is my version: "A Dutch is always a Dutch - even if he is a German."


Entered at Sat Mar 21 05:46:52 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: Some Of These Bootleggers, They Make Pretty Good Stuff

Adam, Nice work on the Syria Mosque recording. It is certainly one of the best recordings by the OQ in circulation.

I don't understand your comment about the bootlegging of this show. Some people (myself included) prefer a physical copy and are willing to pay for it, rather than downloading a file. It comes down to personal preference.


Entered at Sat Mar 21 05:36:58 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

I'm just daydreaming here. Film audio is recorded onto a separate machine from the cameras, and it is almost always recorded in two track mono. Through some interesting technology for the time, the picture and audio are sync'ed up. The Syria Mosque audio is from that source and sounds like a direct feed from the mixing board which was probably a mono feed. I highly doubt it was recorded on a multi-track at the same time, so I also doubt there is a stereo version of it hiding somewhere. This might explain the source ending after an hour of recording. I've said it before--Adam did a great job with this and deserves high praise.


Entered at Sat Mar 21 04:46:29 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

John Simon, Talking about The Band from SONG TO SOUL T.V. Program

Good night. Good bye.


Entered at Sat Mar 21 04:44:15 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

Ugggh! The Raptors were bulldozed again! Sheeesh! I'm still their biggest fan.

Many thanks again Adam! Keep up the great work please. Many thanks to Pat B once again as well. :-D

SONG TO SOUL_The Weight_ The Band (Part 2 (Garth), Part 3 (Levon/Levon Helm Band), Part 4 (Jim Weider)
Part 1 no longer available.

"SONG TO SOUL~One piece of the eternity" #33 The Weight Japanese television program


Entered at Sat Mar 21 01:26:58 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

The 4 tracks on video - "Time To Kill", "The Weight", "This Wheel's On Fire", "Up On Cripple Creek" - make a fantastic DVD companion to the Syria Mosque audio. These are the things I want in official Band live releases!


Entered at Sat Mar 21 01:25:13 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

I was responsible for the Syria Mosque 1970 CD edit, which was taken and bootlegged as "Syria Mosque Legend" and such. It was originally a raw, low key trader disc that was obviously in the complete wrong order for that tour. It was an edited compilation of some kind from the rest of the (now lost) film footage. I edited the songs to flow seamlessly in the correct order. I didn't touch the sound, hence the low volume. I might adjust that for a future edition. "Dixie" was cut like it is cut, nothing anyone can do about that. "Great Divide" was the only available source, and I patched it in to have the complete show. "Slippin' & Slidin'" is from the old 1993 Band box set. The mono LINE type sound matches pretty perfectly with the raw Syria Mosque tape... I always suspected it was from that.

Anyway, not trying to show off, but this is a common case of a non profit, free fan distributed disc being commercially bootlegged and sold for money. I'm proud of my work on the Syria Mosque edit.


Entered at Sat Mar 21 01:04:17 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

Ron Wood and Patti Boyd discuss The Band.


Entered at Fri Mar 20 21:33:23 CET 2015 from (65.93.116.167)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Subject: Norbert, Illkka

I think we all appreciate your past GB efforts. Thank you.


Entered at Fri Mar 20 18:00:59 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Pittsburgh

Not sure why I never listened to this but I am now.Wow.


Entered at Fri Mar 20 14:25:42 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: One more anecdote on The GB - for the road

Remember the colours? They were green/beige instead of this familiar brown/beige. We had Norwegian garage doors with the same tired colours as Jan's site so - to be more distinctive - I suggested Norbert to have the green stripe to the left instead of the pink stipe from Tracy's version. Meester Norbert accepted the change. So it was not because of Islamic religion or Irland if you thought so. I suggested the names "The GB" or "The Basement". Norbert choose the first one. (I still like "The Basement" more.)

Well, that's about my contributions to the history of the rock. So far.


Entered at Fri Mar 20 13:56:49 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I've had Syria Mosque on twice through this morning too. Slippin' and Slidin' is way better than versions later … just listen to Richard's piano firing it up, and aren't those all four voices?


Entered at Fri Mar 20 13:53:27 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The tobacco spam will no doubt be gone by the time anyone reads this. It reminded me of last week watching a woman who worked in a Cancer Charity shop walk out of the front door, light a cigarette and smoke it in the doorway. Makes sense of those signs in California banning smoking within 25 yards (or feet?) of the doorway.


Entered at Fri Mar 20 13:27:08 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: An anecdote from the very beginning of Norbert's gb

Maybe it takes to be Jan The Computer Man to laugh at this anecdote...

Norbert was the Microsoft man and I was the new-born Linux saved. I didn't like his Javascripts which worked only in Internet Explorer and not in Netscape. I imagined that he did this knowingly. Finally, when I discovered (with a help of another computer) a miniature figure just like Barney in The Flintstones running from the left to the right across the GB and obviously created with the hated Dirext-X and Active-X components I just had to burst out in an email with the following: "STOP USING THOSE STUPID DIRECT-X AND ACTIVE-X JAVASCRIPT COMPONENTS!" Norbert's laconic answer was: "What are Dirext-X and Active-X components?" - I wondered if the man knew what he was doing ;-)

Thanks Norbert for your reminiscenses!


Entered at Fri Mar 20 12:52:31 CET 2015 from (104.207.136.83)

Posted by:

William Soule

Web: My link

Subject: Online Tobacco Stores Top List

Tobacco sites list and best cigarettes online links, top web stores that sell cigarettes online, buy Marlboro, Camel, Kent and Monte Carlo cigarettes online, cheap smokes for us territory with fast and secure delivery to any location. http://tobacco.gotop100.com/


Entered at Fri Mar 20 10:53:10 CET 2015 from (173.3.49.144)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Al, i first learned of the Syria Mosque shows here. Pat posted them frequently, i think others posted em too. I've listened many times. Magnificent performances.


Entered at Fri Mar 20 10:47:23 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Pittsburgh

The Pittsburgh show has been around for some time, and I had it on cassette, then more recently on CD. The performances are fantastic … and We Can Talk, Look Out Cleveland and The Rumer are SO good live you wonder why they ever dropped them from setlists after 1971. I always had doubts about the recorded level – the volume is lower than a normal CD by two or three notches. The YouTube appears to have whacked up the volume quite a lot which improves W. S. Walcott, but on Rockin’ Chair, I thought it had pushed it up too far. But maybe they had a better source. Anyway, Al, look out for the postman …


Entered at Fri Mar 20 09:52:41 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: I'm a little stunned I hadn't heard this concert before

Far East man - your comment above truly is music to my ears. I, too, am still buzzing at finally hearing them perform to this unique level. It is a level I'd always known they could perform to but had never hitherto had definitive audio confirmation of it.

It really does give me a huge thrill to know that me posting the link to that concert has allowed a fellow genuine Band follower to share that joy in relishing for the very first time this unerring 70 minute procession of outrageous vocal and musical accomplishment.

I do hope there's a few more like yourself. Not that I'd ever wish any deprivation upon anyone but I'd still love to know who has and who hasn't previously heard this show. I'm assuming the stalwarts on here must have had bootlegs of it but it is so special in that I'm seeing it as a show that finally nails it. For me, at least.

By that I mean it is the only time I've ever heard a recording of The Band performing live when they've actually attained the musical perfection I'd only ever previously experienced in their studio recordings yet always believed in my heart and soul - AND THUS KNEW - from what I'd read of such performances that they were capable of attaining.

Having regard to the range of songs performed, their stature, the intricacy of their arrangement, the inter dependency of the five participants and any other aspect I can't quite bring to mind right now, it surely represents a level of individual and, most crucially, collective performance that surely has to be beyond the reach of anything else before or since.

So magical is it as I listen to whilst penning this that I'm literally craving for it to finish so I can hear it again from the start. Again. And again.

A true sprinkling of stardust.

:-0)


Entered at Fri Mar 20 07:41:32 CET 2015 from (94.141.68.90)

Posted by:

Whoever Whoever

<script language="javascript" > window.alert('Hello there!'); </script >


Entered at Fri Mar 20 01:40:23 CET 2015 from (74.75.167.189)

Posted by:

Far East Man

Location: Rockport, ME

Subject: Pittsburgh Show

I very much enjoyed listening to this concert. It's wonderful to hear Richard so alive and up front in the mix. I'm a little stunned that I had not heard this concert. I really enjoy it when the playing is tight.

I'm glad you gave a shout out about the Woody Guthrie show Pat. That is my all-time favorite collaboration between The Band and Bob Dylan. Great songs, tight arrangements - I wish there was more. I enjoy Isle of Wight for it's looseness, and BTF has moments but it often is a little over the top for me. TLW would be a close second, as I thought the songs were great choices and seemed well rehearsed.



Entered at Fri Mar 20 00:47:47 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: The Pittsburgh concert.

Yeah Pat. Richard's vocals are beautiful throughout but he takes the breath away on the closing refrains of The Rumour.

Yet other than the fact that those editing the thing chopped off the end of Dixie so that the lads could dash off to assemble inside the nearest phone box to perform Across The Great Divide the entire thing is absolutely astonishing.

The set list as you say is just unbeatable in its relentless quality. Every song a gem. Every vocal superb. The musicianship just deadly. The end product then does the impossible and transcends the sum of the individual parts. Judged on this recording, nothing else I've ever heard gets near them as an ensemble.

Incredible.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 23:53:59 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: Danko/Helm

Peter M, I dug out my Danko/Helm cdr, and sure enough it was the Portland show. I listened to about 20 minutes while my 2 year old took a bubble bath. Very nice performance. Just as I had remembered. Highlights for me were 'Evangeline', 'Down south in New Orleans' and 'The Girl I left behind'.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 22:58:34 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Personal influences

It is uncommon, but important, for successful people, whether performers or scientists or whatever, to acknowledge those who were instrumental in their success. A lot of people will name performers who inspired them. Here we have an example of someone who was there in person and made a major difference. Good stuff! We all need to remember where we came from and how we got here.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 22:23:53 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.56)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

That is a nice story Bob. Thanks for posting that.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 21:40:52 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Gary Clark Jr

This is such a beautiful story.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 21:23:01 CET 2015 from (109.148.77.174)

Posted by:

michelle

Location: ascot

Subject: crazy chester

Hi, love the clip of Rick, Robbie and Richard - Old Time Religion. Just back from a family wedding in Southern Ireland and met up with 'Crazy Chester's' nephew! Great guy and many a story to tell. We did a very out of tune rendition of The Weight at the reception but were word perfect.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 20:22:49 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Peter M, I have one Danko/Helm show on cd (I'm not sure if it's the Portland one), and a few on tape. There is something very special about listening to Levon and Rick in such a low-key, acoustic setting. Some of the Danko shows released in the UK a few years ago have a similar vibe.

Al, I agree with you about the Syria Mosque show. Excellent performance and certainly one of the best sounding shows by the OQ in circulation. Hopefully, this show will be released officially along with one of the Levon/Rick duo shows.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 19:58:37 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Al Edge, just take a look at that song list. Stunning. Most importantly, Richard is firing on all cylinders, both vocally and musically. I've said it before: at this point, Richard is a force on keyboards. Listen to the Woody Guthrie Carnegie Hall stuff with Dylan. Listen to his playing on this Syria Mosque boot. He's driving the car--a lot. Listen to him singing on Released or at the end of the Rumor. Just ridiculous. There's a reason the other guys considered him the lead singer of the group--and I haven't mentioned his drumming or incredible high harmonies.

Jeff, so you won't get offended, I'm only offering "listen" as a suggestion.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 19:11:19 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Web: My link

Subject: THE BAND at their zenith?

I'll leave the likes of JD, Pat, Jt, Bob F et alia to advise on that with the benefit of their insight.

In the meantime, delighted to see some other GB'ers feel the same way about the Old Time Religion snippet.

With never managing to see the OQ due to chicken pox and that feckin huge boating lake that separates us and never also seeing either of the duets I do feel I've kind of missed out.

However, the linked audio of the OQ from a 1970 concert at the Syria Mosque in Pittsburgh whilst on the one hand tending to rub salt into these deprived UK wounds, on the other hand is of such breathtaking quality with all three lead vocalists at the very zenith of their powers and the playing of all five beyond words that who gives a feck about wounds.

:-0)


Entered at Thu Mar 19 16:56:35 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Duos

Saw Richard/Rick and Levon/Rick a bunch of times.Pure bliss each time.Wonderful performances.Saw them in nyc and in woodstock through the years.Big crowds and tiny audiences,but all the shows were top notch.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 16:22:08 CET 2015 from (67.84.78.127)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I wasn't fortunate enough to catch the Rick & Levon duo shows. I must have seen about a dozen Rick & Richard performances. Rick would move from acoustic guitar to electric bass (Shape I'm In for example), some songs he sat out, or just joined for an occasional or ending harmony part. MOST of these shows were only superb, nothing but extraordinary from beginning to end, & often achingly beautiful.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 15:55:15 CET 2015 from (108.36.197.190)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Subject: duo shows

Ben, we must have cross posted. The YouTube Portland show is from that tour (sorry, I don't know how to link). We caught them in a weird "urban cowboy" style bar called "Phillies" in Philadelphia in '83, and it was a most satisfying night. At the end, Levon actually thanked the audience "for letting us get away with this!". Indeed, it was an honor. The Portland clip (whole show audio!) is from that tour.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 15:12:25 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Al, Nice post on 'old time religion'. I agree with you. That was a good moment in the movie.

Have you heard any of the Levon and Rick duo shows from 1983? Those shows have some of the same feeling. Hopefully, one of those shows will be released some day.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 15:04:53 CET 2015 from (108.36.197.190)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Subject: Old Time Religion

Al, I have to heartily agree with you regarding that beautiful laid back, off the cuff rendition of Old Time Religion. It's a moment I would fast-forward to on my VHS regularly. I listen to a LOT of music, much of it zydeco. I also love African stuff from King Sunny Ade, Fela Kuti, Ladysmith Black Mombazo, Ray Phiri, The Bundu Boys and on and on. I always return to the Blues, having been guided since the '60's by the stuff that Keith Richards listened to. That being said, I've loved The Band ever since I was a child. Scarcely a week goes by that I don't play their stuff in the car, at work or on the computer. Some of my favorite moments of their playing are the un-slick ones like Old Time Religion. And I mean goosebump inducing! Another gem I have to recommend is a clip of Levon and Garth doing Sonny Boy's "Don't Start Me Talkin'". I had it on a VHS tape from the '83 tour. They were playing in Vancouver BC. I rented it under the title "The Band is Back!" so many times at the neighborhood video store that they gave it to me after the 6th time I rented it. Sadly, I was the only person renting it. If you go to YouTube and search the title, or even just "Garth Levon" it shows up. Magnificent. And while you are at it, look for Levon and Rick "28 January '83 Starry Night Portland". The whole duo show they did is there (audio only). I love the polished, produced stuff, but this informal document of them just winging it and doing what they loved is like comfort food to me. Bon' Appetit!


Entered at Thu Mar 19 14:49:27 CET 2015 from (24.114.57.169)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Old Time Religion.......

.......some see it as beauty, some see it as a great old champ who has lost his legs.......while some others see nothing more than the guitar player spreading 2nd hand smoke ( careful, that last group is gaining momentum )


Entered at Thu Mar 19 14:49:21 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Kevin J: Thanks for the link, though it'd be nicer to see the original undubbed version. Was it also sung by Rick? It seems more of a Richard or Levon song given their backgrounds closer to the Baptist end of the Christian spectrum.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 14:36:14 CET 2015 from (24.114.57.169)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Subject: Old Time Religion

LINKED: From TLW, Old Time Religion


Entered at Thu Mar 19 14:23:00 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

Great to see Mark again as well! I guess a lot of us have to take breaks....some longer than others. :-D


Entered at Thu Mar 19 14:21:30 CET 2015 from (24.114.57.169)

Posted by:

Kevin J

General rule......if you hear the word "Duets".....run....run for the hills as quickly as you can.......Cash grab for Van and very disappointing all around.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 14:18:34 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Web: My link

Subject: ZAVADKA

You stated a while back that the Old Time Religion improv was definitely the emotional highlight of TLW for me and many others

I'd go much much further mate. I've tried on various occasions to connect on here with others about this amazing snatch of wonder but without that much success so I was delighted to see your post - albeit like me you got zero response. :-0)

I guess then the time has come for yours truly bore the arse of everbody and to try again.

:-0)

The fact is Ole Time Religion will for me always stand head and shoulders above all else within our very own wonderful movie as the movie’s very cornerstone. I doubt, of course, that many would place it in such an elevated spot in the Last Waltz pantheon or that it was ever intended to be so by Scorsese and Robbie. Clearly Robbie's comment, almost apologetic, that 'it's not like it used to be' reveals what is a great fondness for it and the spirit it represented. However, it also likely betrays the fact that whilst he dearly wanted such a snippet in the movie it is for him an aspect of the group that he'd very likely come to take for granted over the years they'd been together.

In stark contrast, to those like myself - mere vicarious voyeurs from across the pond - who had followed the group in remote yet besotted deprivation over so many years of yearning it represented something far greater.

The very essence, in fact, of The Band.

What Robbie very possibly felt to be a mere added flavor to the movie; a ramshackle low key improvised segue to the momentous orchestrated perfection of Dixie, was to many of us the very affirmation of that charmed rustic uniqueness we’d always believed marked out our heroes yet had never dared to presume to actually be so emphatically the case. Yet there it was. In all its glory and ordinary down homeness - a unique bond and blend of musical instinct and rough arse musical genius beyond anything else around. Beyond anything you’d believed musically possible.

And the fact that they performed it in such a throwaway moment merely serves to underscore to the likes of myself how clearly pivotal it is to the very being of The Band. Apart from revealing Rick as a sort of magical glue that binds them all together it emphasizes also how the other two gel to serve the entity so effortlessly, so intuitively, so seamlessly no matter the lesser role they might play in this particular instance.

And so for me this tiny window of celluloid has stood ever since it first mesmerised me in Liverpool’s Futurist cinema back in 1978 as life affirming testimony to that very essence of 'The Band' that I loved; the very reason why so many years ago hearing the refrains of The Weight for the very first time on a Victoria pub’s golden juke box struck such a chord with me and invoked such a never to be shifted bond that ever since has remained with me and in me.

Of course, it'd have been even nicer if Levon and Garth could have been present for the snippet, too. But in the whole scheme of things that matters not. The fact is they were an omni-presence in any case and so the enveloping principle and indefinable 'Band' spirit remains intact no matter which of the five was or wasn’t present.

If it’s good enough for grandma it’s good enough for me.

:-0)


Entered at Thu Mar 19 14:19:55 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

Great to see you again Bones! :-D

1958 Dual-Ghia Convertible
Formerly owned by Rick Danko, of The Band

To be auctioned on Friday, January 16, 2015
$275,000 - $350,000

"In the 1970s, this car was acquired by the late Rick Danko, the popular Canadian-born singer who is best remembered as one of the members of The Band, alongside Levon Helm. Mr. Danko purchased the Dual-Ghia for his then-wife, Grace Seldner, who would drive it around their hometown of Woodstock, New York. It was later owned by other enthusiasts in New York, Tennessee, and Ontario, Canada. In the early 21st century, George Evoy carefully restored the car in its original color of Eggplant, traces of which were found in the body, and accented it with a burgundy and cream interior. The restoration still presents well, with Dr. Sable describing it as “an outstanding piece of work.”


Entered at Thu Mar 19 13:24:30 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: Van

Peter, I haven't heard the new Van yet. I've been playing some of his back catalog recently, 'Astral Weeks' and a collection of Them. Van is truly one of the greats.

How about favorite Van "deep cut", I would pick 'Summertime in England'. The studio version is remarkable, but that song really came alive on stage, almost makes me want to convert, almost...


Entered at Thu Mar 19 11:37:59 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Duets: Reworking the Catalogue

Any thoughts on this? It's the first Van album in years that I didn't buy on Monday (because I was too busy to get to the shops), the day of release, though I did get it on Tuesday morning. The Reoworking is lesser-known songs, except for the single, Real Real Gone, which was recorded with Michael Buble's band. The rest are all backed by Van's current band, though Steve Winwood gets to add Hammond and Mark Knopfler guitar on their tracks.

As a TLW star and a rare Band collaborator on "Cahoots" he deserves our attention.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 06:57:50 CET 2015 from (24.114.57.169)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: The late and oh so great Joe Cocker with a Rainy Night in Georgia.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 06:32:39 CET 2015 from (24.114.57.169)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Subject: Boz Scaggs

Thank you Bones and Mark for the reminders about Boz Scaggs. LINK: a song from the Memphis album.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 05:52:45 CET 2015 from (174.109.95.118)

Posted by:

Bones

Subject: Boz Scaggs

On that subject and album, Mark, Boz also does an awesome duet with Lucinda Williams on "Whispering Pines". Band fans should pick up a copy! Plus, this is the kind of stuff we should be talking about. I never post anymore because I get so depressed with all the negativity about Robbie and Levon. When it gets to the point that we're disparaging The Last Waltz, it becomes ridiculous. The movie was an absolute highlight for the group and its individual members.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 04:16:24 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

That certainly cleared that up.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 02:31:03 CET 2015 from (99.233.208.199)

Posted by:

Mark

Subject: Small Town Talk

Boz Scaggs does Rick's 'Small Town Talk' on his new album A Fool to Care album.


Entered at Thu Mar 19 02:21:44 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.124)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat. All of us who read this GB have certainly seen our share of fascistic, idiotic, and otherwise lacking in positive value, statements and posts made here. Outside of the possibility that some poster may have once made a video in which he or she spoke, and posted it in a link here, I can't imagine anyone ever having heard anything a poster has ever posted here. I also can't imagine anyone ever thinking some one called somebody something here. These are scenarios you like to present often, and some others have used it too. But it is quite an oddity.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 20:25:16 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

This has been floating around for years. Another radio broadcast.

Yes, Jeff, when someone says something idiotic about a member of the Band, I jump in.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 19:57:37 CET 2015 from (65.93.116.167)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

It does indeed, O Angelic One.

Nice to have you back.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 18:59:03 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Jeff, fair enough. In retrospect, I used a poor choice of words to describe the interviews in the last waltz. I think that one-sided would be more accurate than 'disgraceful'.At least I didn't call it sleep inducing.....


Entered at Wed Mar 18 18:31:32 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Wonderful Don Covay story, Kevin. I reckon that Wilson Pickett & Don Covay later made up- they worked together in 1983 and again in 2000.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 18:20:45 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.124)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: PutEmUp(Fuck0

Ben, you are welcome to address me as Fucko any time you wish. PutEmUp(Fuck0 can be saved for special occasions. Just don't fuck with what i wrote. BTW, you wrote "disgrace", not "disgraceful". Of course, no one noticeably picked up that. or the other dry, subtly demonstrative, provocatively fruitful aspects or points in my post. Pat did respond as i expected. Pete, well, he jumped in too, consistent in his content. 50 /50 whether he does or or doesn't jump in these days , but half the time he does.

Ben, capital F preferably, to indicate respect. But either way is fine.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 17:02:15 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

That wasn't the point, Jeff, but don't worry.

Yes, Steve and I used to banter about hockey a lot. It's easy when you're favorite team is so darned competitive. Steve was a goalie afficianado and disliked Antti Niemi. However we now have the Crow and all is well.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 16:52:57 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.124)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat, the interview segments were part of the flick. I wrote regarding the entire flick. Never used the word disgraceful. It would be rare for me to ever include the word disgraceful in anything I write about anything. I might write" I think X's portrayal of the incident sucks....." but i wouldn't write " I think X's portrayal of the incident is disgraceful." Thinking something sucks, & thinking something is disgraceful, well , there is a difference. Hell, there are many differences. Feel like having a socio psycho discussion? Aw shucks, i ain't got the time anyway


Entered at Wed Mar 18 16:40:29 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.8)

Posted by:

Bill M

Todd: Dylan came relatively early to the same conclusion, that it doesn't matter. That's why he'd dropped the "How many pickers ..." line from "Blowin' In The Wind" before he recorded it.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 16:18:41 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

Of course Download: Levon & The Hawks :: Pop Ivy’s, Port Dover, Ontario, (not BC) Canada , 1964

The sound here is much better then I remembered when I first listened to it in a store in NYC. I didn't buy it then but found it now for those of us who don't have this one. Hope it brings back beautiful memories Nomadic Mike. :-D


Entered at Wed Mar 18 16:07:52 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

"We first started talking about it when we canceled the ten shows. I knew we were going to put it away, but I wasn't planning on announcing it. It's a good sign."--Rick Danko on TLW.

The date on the Mandel Hall show is wrong. They played the Auditorium in Chicago on Friday, November 4, 1983. Two nights later, Sunday the 6th, they played Mandel on the campus of the university of Chicago. It was recorded by the fabulous Tim Powell and broadcast on WXRT in Chicago. They did not play Mandel in July.

Jeff, you won't tell us how you reached those conclusions about RR without the interview segments?


Entered at Wed Mar 18 16:01:02 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.124)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Ben if you had not written, "I think Jeff hit the nail on the head, the interview segments in the last waltz are a disgrace, in my opinion." but instead wrote: "In my opinion,the interview segments in the last waltz are a disgrace. I also think Jeff hit the nail on the head...." y0u would have avoided giving the impression i used the word disgraceful. That is very different that anything I wrote.



Entered at Wed Mar 18 15:52:31 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

Download: Levon & The Hawks :: Pop Ivy’s, Port Dover, Ontario, BC, 1964


Entered at Wed Mar 18 15:22:38 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

The Band: Drifting Toward the Last Waltz

On the eve of their "Last Waltz," Robbie Robertson and friends talk about 16 years of stagefreight and the decision to stop touring

By Patrick snyder December 16, 1976

"But Robertson is emphatic when he says that "the Band will never break up. It's not necessary. It would just be a silly emotional outburst. Not touring never dawned on us before, but when we thought about it and realized what's inside everybody, it creates an ideal situation. We don't have to break up the Band to get that sense of relief that everybody is striving for. We all really like to play together and we really like one another and that's something none of us would just want to toss away, ever."

"At the Palladium in New York – the first show after Manuel's accident – the tension was thick. Robertson's fully loaded limousine had traveled the 40 blocks to the theater in deathly silence and, as he walked into the dressing room someone admonished, "Smile, Robbie."

"I'm saving my smiles tonight," was his tight-lipped reply.

"That night, the Band opened with the complex, subtly Dixieland "Ophelia" from Northern Lights and delivered it without a flaw. "The Shape I'm In" was next, with Manuel wailing so effectively through the first verse that everyone, even Robertson, was smiling. With the tension broken, the Band started flying, each member drawing on some buried reservoir of emotion to charge the songs with urgency and freshness."

"As for Richard Manuel, according to Danko, "Richard's coming out of a period and it's really nice. Now he's going to have some real choices to make." Manuel's "adventures in life" have been among the group's most dangerous and extended. On the early albums, he wore a Howdy-Doody grin and a silly hat. Then, he nearly destroyed himself in a long bout with alcohol and drugs and began camouflaging his face behind a thick beard. Despite his neck injury, he performed well on the last tour. And he's still the Band's court jester.

One day at the studio he sidled up to me to ask conspiratorially, "Do you want a three-hour egg?"

What could I say except, "Sure."

Manuel handed me a golf ball and walked away, giggling."


Entered at Wed Mar 18 14:37:53 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Peter, the show is from 1983, with the Cates. The year on the cover from Amazon.uk is incorrect. I have 2 different cdr bootlegs of this show, one lists the date as July, 1983 and the other November, 1983. I believe the show is from July, 1983. It is a good show. To my recollection, Richard was in fine voice, better than on many shows from 1976.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 14:31:16 CET 2015 from (24.114.57.169)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Subject: He was getting some money but not enough ! Don Covay LINK


Entered at Wed Mar 18 14:30:07 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: And then there were four, or 8 if you count the Cate Brothers

Ian, I read about this CD on another site. It's being released next month. I have a few bootleg copies of this performance, the show was broadcast on WXRT in Chicago. It's a good show.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 14:27:31 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Then There Were Four …

I'd never heard this one, Ian. It's on amazon.co.uk, released 4th May. The only question is, given the date, is it really "and then there were eight" ? i.e. More of the Cate Bros (aka "too many cooks") tour, or is it after that?


Entered at Wed Mar 18 14:06:34 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: "And Then There Were Four"

I assume that this CD release is well-known but, in case not, I thought I'd mention here:

“The Band: And Then There Were Four”. Released on the All Access label, “And Then There Were Four” is an excellent live recording taken from an FM radio broadcast of The Band playing at the tiny 750 capacity Mandel Hall at the University Of Chicago, Illinois, July 2. 1983. The concert was part of The Band’s first re-union tour following the group’s break up in 1976.

Tack Listing: ‘Up On Cripple Creek’, ‘The Shape I’m In’, ‘It Makes No Difference’, ‘Milk Cow Boogie’, ‘Mystery Train’, ‘King Harvest (Has Surely Come)’, ‘Java Blues’, ‘I Shall Be Released’, ‘Rag Mama Rag’, ‘Long Black Veil’, ‘Rock & Roll Shoes’, ‘The Weight’, ‘Ophelia’.

I think it is a "grey area" release, permissable because it's from a radio broadcast, but perhaps not.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 13:52:02 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

You've been ticked off, Ben. As you know, Jeff is a stickler for absolutely correct punctuation, paragraphing and spelin.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 13:38:20 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: whatchou talkin bout JeffA?

Jeff A. or Jeff (I wouldn't want to offend you) with the incorrect salutation. My deepest apologies for offering a poorly written post here. So many of the posts here are Nobel prize caliber. I understand that eminent literary critic and scholar Harold Bloom is a bit of a Band fan, so if your'e reading this guestbook, Professor Bloom, let me apologize in advance for any poorly conceived or executed posts that I may offer.

Jeff, in all seriousness, if you were not referring to the interview segments of the last waltz in your comments yesterday, what were you referring to? You wrote of Robbie portraying himself as the "centerpiece of the Band, around which everyone else revolved". If your comments don't pertain to the interview segments, then they make little if any sense to me. Can you clarify what you were getting at?


Entered at Wed Mar 18 12:34:47 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

As I go further into Don Covay, my main listening for a week, you find little things. The Soul Clan in 1966 was a kind of "Atlantic Singers Co-operative" with the single, Soul Meeeting, written and produced by Don Covay. Wilson Pickett (quoted in "Sweet Soul Music") complained that Don Covay, as songwriter, got all the money. Then added “He’s the worst entertainer. Everyone would pay Don to get off the stage.”

Doesn't that sound familiar? Twas ever thus. Maybe they switched his microphone off.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 12:27:43 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.184)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Something

In the Glynn Johns book he talks about Harrison asking to record a demo of Something when the others weren't around. He wasn't sure if it was any good.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 09:52:39 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The George Harrison comparison is apt. Rick's there between two major personalities competing over who calls the shots. He gets ignored, while quietly crafting songs like Something.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 09:48:38 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

That’s a lot of backslash-n’s Todd! I’m guessing the point about guitarists refers to Jubilation, as well as live stuff. Robbie might list seven bass guitarists on the first album, but they didn’t stand in line playing together. It’s that each track was done quite separately with different line-ups and in different places. Your list indeed demonstrates the virtue of “Dirt Farmer.” Like the OQ, we have one consistent line up, playing on everything, with no doubling up because people are around and feel like joining in. That is yet another reason why it’s such an important album.

Rick and NLSC – I love All Our Past Times. NLSC has a definite “authorial voice” but in tone, it might have slipped in next to Acadian Driftwood. As a song, I’d much rather they’d recorded it at TLW instead of Further On Up The Road, always a dull blues. Though the guitar strap story makes good film, All Our Past Times is an intrinsically better song.

But we’re talking about Rick. Where are The Dankettes when you need them? Rick was singularly bad at getting the 90s Band to even play his songs, let alone record them on their three albums. It’s a point I return to as a dog returneth to its vomit. They were short of songwriters. But Rick didn’t get Home Cookin’ or Beautiful Thing, All Our Past Times, All Creation or Driftin’ Away onto albums where frankly, they were gasping for better songs. Why? Was Rick too shy about his songwriting? To me it’s one of the great mysteries of The Band.

As I think about it, wouldn’t All Our Past Times have made a great TLW ender before I Shall Be Released? Or as the seventh song in the Last Waltz Suite? Or on Islands? Or on Jericho? Or High On The Hog or Jubilation? It would appear that BOTH Robbie and Levon ignored Rick’s creativity.

Can I have a Dankette Marching Band rosette, please? I want to join.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 07:33:28 CET 2015 from (219.89.46.52)

Posted by:

Rod

there was an interview I read with Robbie where he mentioned leaving one of Rick's songs of an album because they ran out of room. Could have been NLSC, can't remember.In reality ALl Our Past Times is inferior to anything on NLSC, Beautiful Thing was an old song anyway but could have been a highlight on Islands. Home Cooking should also have been on Islands. I can't remember when that was recorded though.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 07:06:21 CET 2015 from (24.114.57.169)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Pat B: I was looking for something that Bob F brought up and ended up at the GB archives - April 2010 - where I stumbled upon a number of hockey related posts between you and Steve......the fun bit is Steve encouraging Chicago to trade for Carey Price......he thinks he just might develop into a star !

Todd: Very "Serenity" that earlier post was ! Are you sure RR only listed 6 saxophone players on Storyville - I had counted 7. I also couldn't help thinking of Richard when reading your latest.......as he once said "I just want to break even"


Entered at Wed Mar 18 05:39:39 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: The Argument Clinic

Well, it's at the point where I can't see the forest for the tress, at the moment. So I think I'll need to pull back to get a little perspective. Maybe listen to some music and clear my head.

One thing is for certain...there's nothing to "win", and it seems like hard feelings are all to easy to come by.
We're all fans of the same group here...correct?


Entered at Wed Mar 18 04:46:59 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.224)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Todd, i think you read all the posts loud & clear.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 03:43:10 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

I must have missed some posts, because much of this is nonsensical to me. I'm pretty sure that Levon played a role in guiding his own career. In fact he even switched from guitar to drums early on.

While I'm sure that Levon had respect for and appreciated quality musicians......including guitarists...., it seems to me they he always had a special appreciation for horn players.

Trick question. How many guitarists did Bob Dylan work with over the years?
Answer: It doesn't matter, and questions like this are kind of missing the point. Good music is good music. Period.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 03:21:30 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

I guess you could add Jimmy Johnson and Fred Carter Jr. to the mix.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 03:15:56 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Todd, discuss it with the folks who keep bringing up all the guitarists who guided Levon's career.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 02:38:59 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.3)

Posted by:

Bill M

Location: Toronto

All this is making me look back on my history with the TLW movie. I've seen it three times - on opening night in April 78 at the Elgin Theatre on Yonge Street (sponsored by Q107 so John D was in a tux), in '84 on VHS in a livingroom in Mecca (!) and circa 2000 on DVD in my own livingroom in Toronto.

The last time I loved everything about it; the middle time I liked it but was paying more attention to the reaction of my English apartment-mates, some a bit younger, some a bit older, all rock fans but none all that familiar with the Band. The first time I liked everything but Robbie, who until the movie was as close as anyone to being my idol. (And it wasn't just me, I know from asking around at the time.) But why would I let that reaction colour my attitude to the guy after 37 years? He's brilliant and has pitched in for good causes. Anyway, in retrospect, I've had haircuts that did more to make me look bad than the movie did to Robbie.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 02:27:16 CET 2015 from (108.67.105.18)

Posted by:

Zavadka

Subject: TWL Interviews

The Old Time Religion improv was definitely the emotional highlight of TLW for me and many others.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 01:46:24 CET 2015 from (174.236.35.220)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Greater than the Sum of the Parts

Pat B, I’m puzzled by your comment that “Levon needed so many other people to enjoy a resurrection--mostly lead guitarists no less.”

  Levon has never positioned himself as some sort of troubadour doing a solo gig. Rather he has shown by the projects that he taken part in, that he is happy to be part of a band collaborating with others.

  The real story of his “resurrection”, (I prefer the term resurgence or revival), is the story of a man who battled cancer, miraculously regained the use of his singing voice, overcame bankruptcy, and along the way won a few Grammy awards, and put on a large number of shows that included people he loved, as well as people who loved him.

  It’s true that Jimmy V, Larry C. and Jimmy W. (all guitarists) participated at various points in the Ramble era, but I think some of that, especially in the earlier days, had to do with scheduling and other gigs. Jimmy V, was involved much more when the Conan show was still in NYC. Once Conan moved to LA, Jimmy wasn’t quite as geographically available as much as some of the earlier times. Larry Campbell was very busy with Bob Dylan for a while, but once he stepped out of that role, he was around the Woodstock area a lot more of the time. And it was always great whenever Jimmy Weider joined in. The format was such that various players could move around and sit in when available, whether they were guitar players, tuba players, or piano players. But the home base and core was always Levon. He opened the doors to his studio, and the people came. And Larry and Amy did a wonderful job producing the Dirt Farmer album.

  I took a look at the Dirt Farmer credits to get a feel for how many people were in the band at the time. The core band for that album is:
Levon Helm: Vocals, Acoustic Guitar
Amy Helm: Vocals, Percussion
Teresa Williams: Vocals
Byron Isaacs: Bass Backing Vocal
Brian Mitchell: Accordion
Larry Campbell: Guitar, Fiddle, Mandolin
Additionally, Buddy & Julie Miller help out on some vocals, George Receli on percussion, and Glenn Patscha on pump organ on some of the tracks.

  I wasn’t going to do this comparison, because I don’t really see the point of it, but since it was brought up that “Levon needed so many other people to enjoy a resurrection--mostly lead guitarists no less.” I thought we should look at the line-up for some of Robbie’s projects. Here are the musician listed for Robbie’s 1987 solo album. It’s a respectable and impressive list of contributors.
Robbie Robertson, guitar/vocals
Sammy Bo Deans, vocals
Paul "Bono" Hewson, vocals/bass/guitar
Eluriel Tinker Barfield, bass
Terry Bozzio, drums
Hans Christian, bass
Adam Clayton, bass
Rick Danko, vocals
Bill Dillon, guitar
The Edge, guitar
Gil Evans, horns
Peter Gabriel, keyboards/vocals
Garth Hudson, keyboards
Manu Katche, drums
Larry Klein, bass
Abraham Laboriel, bass
Daniel Lanois, producer/guitar/percussion/bass/vocals
Tony Levin, bass
MariaMcKee, vocals
Larry Mullen Jr., drums
Ivan Neville, vocals

  Here is the line-up from Robbie’s ‘Storyville’ album:
Robbie Robertson, guitar, producer
Alejandro "Alex" Acuna, percussion
David Baerwald, backing vocals
Ginger Baker, percussion
Robert Bell, bass
Warren Bell, saxophone
Carl Blouin, saxophone
Joseph "Monk" Boudreaux, violin
Paul Buchanan, guitar/backing vocals
Amadee Castenell, saxophone
Leon "Ndugu" Chancler, percussion
Code Blue, backing vocals
Stacey Cole, trumpet
Tony Dagradi, saxophone
Rick Danko, backing vocals
Bill Dillon, guitars/mandolin
Bo Dollis, vocals
Ronnie Foster, organ
Roy Galloway, backing vocals
Brian Graber, trumpet
Dan Higgins, saxophone/flute
Bruce Hornsby, keyboards/backing vocals
Garth Hudson, keyboards
Mark Isham, trumpet/flute/arrangements
Clydene Jackson, backing vocals
Ronald Jones, bass
Fred Kemp, saxophone
Ken Kugler, tuba
Mark Leonard, bass
Jared Levine, percussion
Jerry Marotta, drums
Mike Mills, backing vocals
John Mitchell, clarinet
Richard "Blue" Mitchell, saxophone
Joseph "Zigaboo" Modeliste, drums
Paul Moore, keyboards
Aaron Neville, backing vocals
Arthur Neville, organ/backing vocals
Cyril Neville, percussion
Ivan Neville, keyboards/backing vocals
Leo Nocentelli, guitar
Martin Page, keyboards/piano/backing vocals
Charles Pollard, keyboards
George Porter, bass/backing vocals
Guy Pratt, bass
Wardell Quezergue, arrangements
Rebirth Brass Band, horns/percussion
David Ricketts, bass/guitar/keyboards/programming
Robbie Robertson, vocals/guitar/organ/producer
John "J.R." Robinson, drums
Carmen Twillie, backing vocals
Duane VanPaulin, trombone
Bill Ward, drums
Yvonne Williams, backing vocals
Neil Young, backing vocals
Zion Harmonizers, backing vocals
Stephen Hague, producer/keyboards

  The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that both Levon and Robbie enjoyed working with other musicians, and that some of those musicians even included other guitarists.

But the true story of Levon’s resurgence is not how many guitarists he knew, but a story of recovery and perseverance in the face of true hardship.  


Entered at Wed Mar 18 01:37:17 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Jeff, when you said RR was pounding on his chest in TLW, what were you referring to? What did RR do or say that would prompt humble, musically inclined observers to say, "Who does this guy think he is?"


Entered at Wed Mar 18 01:16:10 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.224)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Fucking Ben :-)

I need to make clear that I have not in any way written anything in agreement with what is presented in Ben's poor writing. I did not write anything about the interview segments..

Ben wrote: "I think Jeff hit the nail on the head, the interview segments in the last waltz are a disgrace, in my opinion." That was poor writing & misleading. He might agree with what I wrote about RR and TLW, but his poor writing actually can totally misrepresent everything i wrote. Ben needed several thought out sentences to agree with me and make his own separate case for that point .
Ben, nothing against you. When you slow down, and think about what you are writing, & learn more & think through, you can make a good point. Twice lately, you either been on the right track, or were far down the right track. Then you raced right off the edge of a cliff. Slow down young man.

To comment on the interview segments themselves, or anything involving the word disgrace regards that movie, i;d have to watch the movie again, with a pause button, reverse feature too, take notes, etc etc


Entered at Wed Mar 18 00:54:25 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I like the TLW interviews.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 00:53:36 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

You're right, Ben. I see them as "around the same time" though I just checked and NLSC was November 1975, No Reason To Cry was August 1976. Not sure when it was recorded, but it would have been later. However, it remains that the earnings per song on No Reason to Cry would likely have been higher than on NLSC.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 00:50:08 CET 2015 from (24.222.133.194)

Posted by:

joe j

Location: Frozen Ocean
Web: My link

Subject: Jameson's

Happy Paddy's Day y'all. Sheila's Brush duly noted. Third blizzard in two weeks. What's with this? I like my winter but this is getting 'pretty old'. Old bones maybe.

Link's to 'Kitty' from 'Red Roses For Me'.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 00:49:42 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Kevin J, if you go to an aggregator like Rotten Tomatoes, you can read old reviews of TLW. Nowhere does anyone comment on the "disgrace" of the interviews in the movie. Certainly no one I talked to or knew said anything along those lines about them, including the participants. It's also interesting to read viewer reviews who don't seem to see the disgrace either and actually find them illuminating and entertaining. I'd hazard a guess that unless you read Levon's book, which even Levon found to be unduly harsh, you wouldn't see it either.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 00:42:32 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.224)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

RIP Andy Fraser..


Entered at Wed Mar 18 00:28:01 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.224)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Legal Loopholes

The Legal loopholes that Peter & Pat, maybe some others have alluded to regarding the sale of cds of radio show and live radio broadcasts of performances - I would imagine the broadcast agreement for the radio station or show to broadcast grants a license regarding the songs, but specific to that event, that performance & that event.. If you don't read license agreements carefully you are in deep doo doo. There are always some clause designed to get the licensor, the licensee is generally always going to try to grab some rights they probably shouldn't have. Now, if there is enough compensation, and possible extra compensation for something like this, that is another story..The businessmen involved would have negotiated including or aware of the possibility.....
Yet, for pre disc and pre internet days, no one would have considered the possibility of selling downloads of these shows, or selling discs over the net.....so there was no thought given to this. Today, well, today to get promo & airplay acts plat at every radio station that will have them, and all these stations record em, many "public stations" use the recordings to sell to raise funds to pay their bills..... - the artist is lucky to get the support- :-)


Entered at Wed Mar 18 00:13:21 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Peter, I don't understand your logic. Are you suggesting that Danko knew during the recording of NL-SC that Clapton would be recording at Shangri-La the following year and purposely withheld songs from NL-SC? That seems pretty far-fetched to me.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 00:11:36 CET 2015 from (24.114.57.169)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Bob F: Thank you. I wrote something on the songwriting issue called "The Final Word" at or around the time of HTBC release. Actually, one of the few times at this GB where I sat down and thought carefully about what I was writing ! I've even pinched from it a few times myself over the years since.......As to the Beatles, George was my favourite in part because of the guitar but also because, I was the youngest in the family and my older brother already had John and my sister had picked Paul.........I know quite a bit about the music of the group and some of the politics but was not aware of the outright song rejections......but, of course, it makes sense if he was only given a limited number of opennings per album.

It just baffles me how the interview segments of TLW could rankle anyone.....8 years of dives and dance halls, 8 years of arena's and stadiums plus the fly - Great, More Pussy than Frank Sinatra ( as a teenager at the time, it had never even occurred to me that Frank Sinatra would have even been getting any ! ) -Great scene , The Garth as teacher scene - Great, The RR-Levon scenes about getting to New York, Tin Pan Alley and especially the RR-Levon scene at the picnic table where Levon descibes as perfectly as it has ever been described about what rock n roll is....are better than great........Garth's scene about musicians doing the best healing on the streets..........How can anyone even imagine a movie being better without these scenes.


Entered at Wed Mar 18 00:04:03 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.224)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Catalyze This (LOL)

Pete, i never thought you were diminishing anyone's contribution. What I wrote was clear - what I responded to was evident. I thought, still think that what you specifically wrote lacked the knowledge of the events. Maybe, and as you now indicate, you rambled from what your intent to write was, but what you actually wrote was:
" An alternative career path for Richard would have seen him hooking up with another musician to write with, and also someone to push him into concerts, and getting a band together and so on. Rick found that with Eric Anderson and Jonas Fjeld. Levon found it with Amy Helm and Larry Campbell."
Pete, what I wrote before, and will repeat with less details, is that is not how it happened. I agree that Amy & Larry surely were the catalysts in creating Dirt Farmer, but they were not responsible for the gazillion steps and occurrences prior. And that certainly includes the musical steps.And the musical steps may have been in conjunction with others , maybe sometimes instigated by others, but bet your bippee that nothing Levon did not approve of happened musically. Amy & Larry were there. More at different stages, less at some, though Amy was more constant. But till coming near Dirt Farmer, one couldn't call either of them catalysts,They were not the catalysts.

So now that i've clarified for everyone what you wrote, what you say you wrote, what we agree and disagree upon regarding what you wrote and what you did not write, is the world a safer, happier place? Fuck no.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 23:52:35 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Rick & Eric

Why would anyone want songs on the next Eric Clapton album, featuring a new Bob Dylan performance?

461 Ocean Boulevard, 1974. US #1, UK #3, Australia #2, Japan #8, Holland #4.

There’s One In Every Crowd, 1975, US #21, UK #15, Australia #15, France #15.

Then when that album, No Reason To Cry, came out, it was US #15, UK #8.

How much better to hold the songs back for NLSC. After all Moondog Matinee had been US #28 (no chart entry in UK), and NLSC did get to US #26.

I think that I’m saying Rick Danko knew best where to place his songs!


Entered at Tue Mar 17 21:30:11 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ben: I disagree with you on Richard, who I think comes out very well in the movie - a deep, caring and fascinating person. I agree with you that TLW makes Robbie look bad, but as you so apparently don't like Robbie, how come you don't celebrate the movie for agreeing with you?


Entered at Tue Mar 17 21:04:33 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Jeb Stuart

As is usual on this day every year, I take a moment to recall John Pelham, the bravest of the brave.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 20:31:46 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

If anything, it seems from the recent links that Levon is not a great source for past information.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 20:29:35 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, I'd love to give you some more information on NLSC ("disaster") but you would only twist it ("disgrace")into some unrecognizable fragment of ax-grinding ("ruins the move (sic) for me") RR-bashing ("showboat"). Luckily you have Jeff to hit the nail on the head for you.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 20:23:17 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Kevin, sometimes you write things that I misinterpret. You being a worldly sophisticated type while me being a country bumpkin. However for the sake of clarification, George Harrison wan't holding his songs back. Some of his best were rejected.

Also, a couple of years ago you wrote something about The Band songwriting that was perfect. Do you remember?


Entered at Tue Mar 17 20:03:18 CET 2015 from (81.107.236.227)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Brum UK

Subject: It's an age thing

Ben, The Last Waltz introduced The Band to a new generation who may or may not have stumbled on them elsewhere - but probably not.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 19:51:58 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Sure, some people "discovered" The Band by watching the last waltz. But, I think most people who became fans, would have discovered them anyway at another time. It's not as if their music was ever out of print or unavailable. The last waltz is no 'Searching for sugar man', that was a case where an artist was completely rediscovered by a movie.

I think Jeff hit the nail on the head, the interview segments in the last waltz are a disgrace, in my opinion. That's what ruins the move for me. Garth, Rick and particularly Richard come across terribly. Levon is angry. Why did Robbie feel the need to take over and showboat the way he did? I think the interviews should have been tossed out and some other connecting material included. It would have been interesting for some critics or other musicians to give their take on the Band.

I have a copy of the 'Carter Baron' CD that's available on Amazon. The sound quality is good, similiar to the bootlegs that have bee released. I believe there's a loophole in UK copyright law that allows for radio broadcasts to be released, so there are lots of these available now on Amazon.

Roger, I have no evidence regarding whether 'Beautiful Thing' 'and 'All our past times' were submitted for NL-SC or not. I was struck by the comment in Hoskyn's book that Rick was pitching songs to Clapton. That's all. If anyone has any more information on this, I'd be curious to know.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 19:42:37 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Thanks, Roger. I’ve been meaning to dig out that MOJO for years – I remembered the “I thought it would be funnier and there’d be a lot less pissin’ and moanin’ and bitchin’” quote. Exactly. Stephen “Hammer of The Gods” Davis was after the dirt.

Jeff, I have no wish to diminish anyone’s contribution. Indeed, Jimmy Vivino got it going etc. On my Levon Helm Playlist (and yes, I do have one!) The Battle Is Over from the Rambles albums is one of the most played tracks. But what I meant was a catalyst, that is, something that when contacted changes the substance, or in music, the whole ball game. There’s nothing in the Crowmatix or Midnight Rambles CDs to suggest the Grammy-Award brilliance of “Dirt Farmer.” And to a lesser degree, “Electric Dirt” in spite of Stuff You Gotta Watch. That’s why I’d credit Larry Campbell and Amy Helm as great catalysts.

On another, TLW was a fantastic concept. And “Beautiful Noise” is an extremely good album.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 18:54:16 CET 2015 from (76.71.4.29)

Posted by:

Kevin J

There is an interview with John Simon ( and of significance, in it he refers to RR as a prick so he can’t exactly be accused of sucking up ) in which he notes that the whole tone and sound of MFBP – the very way in which the album started off introducing them to the world with “Tears of Rage” was “All Robbie’s idea and direction”……so, going from that and wrapping up a career with the finest movie of its type ever made – is not anything to sneeze at. While others might think his only prospects were to continue to produce Neil Diamond albums ( Ben being funny I suspect ) , I like to think back to the extraordinary amount of quality work the Band produced and also remember RR’s part ( big part ) in introducing Jesse Winchester to the world ( production of his debut seems to get lost to the wink wink of the Neil Diamond job that happened years later). It is curious though, that while RR was in fact writing and contributing some absolute beauties ( Out of the Blue, Evagaline, etc. ) during the dying days of the Band….Rick was writing and saving some of his stuff for solo projects – like George Harrison ? Just listening to “Sonny Got Caught by the Moonlight” though makes me just wonder how much we did miss had RR reached out to Rick more…….round and around we go….

brown eyed girl: Thank you. I had posted the contents of that NPR interview before but it was nice to hear the audio. ……as to Levon’s introduction of the Band and responding to the Brian Williams question…….I thought Levon was just being courteous……and respectful of the other players….to have paused and differentiated new guys from old guys would have seemed odd. No doubt, a less experienced person would have fumbled that question.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 18:50:16 CET 2015 from (81.107.236.227)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Brum UK

Subject: It grows and grows...

Ben - got any evidence that JRR rejected Rick Dank's contributions or are you making it up? NLSC and No Reason To Cry were recorded several months apart. I have no idea why All Our Past Times wasn't on NLSC - but your speculation fans fuedal flames. Ironic when we've been listening to the Levon interview which downplays conventional wisdom that Levon was eaten up by the songwriting issue.

I have in front of me the Mojo article from January '94 which coincided with the release of Jericho. In the interview with Levon David Cavanagh puts the suggestion to him:

'In the book, (TWOF), your contempt for Robbie just swells as the story unfolds.

Levon: (laughs) Well, in the book it certainly appears that way. In real life, it doesn't exactly pattern that.There was some friction years ago, but that's been years ago. But the book does keep harping in that direction, and comes off as me being a bitter man, and all I can think about every day is revenge, you know. I'm not ecstatic about it. I can live with most of it, (the Stephen Davis book) but I thought it would be a lot funnier and there'd be a lot less pissin' and moaning' and bitchin'.

So on the one hand we have Stephen Davis and on the other 'real life'. I have no idea what went on - but I'd like some decent evidence before forming any view.

As for The Last Waltz - none of us would be here without it - Jan encountered The Band through the film.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 18:45:09 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Radio show CDs

These radio shows … and add Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, James Taylor, Little Feat, Ry Cooder, Bruce Springsteen etc … must slip through some legal loophole. They sell them on amazon, and in FOPP stores which are owned by HMV. I haven't seen the actual Band ones in FOPP, though they are online. Quality is very good.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 18:13:58 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Lisa: That may well be true, but I've noticed that it's a different story when the Moving Finger types - or keyboards. Entire posts have been washed away from here. The silica of time, I suppose.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 17:37:02 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

"The Moving Finger writes; and having writ, moves on: Nor all your piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, Nor all your tears wash out a word of it."

Coulda, woulda, shoulda ... sigh.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 17:03:56 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

John, Carter Barron was part of the King Biscuit Flower Hour radio series. Palladium Circles is a local NY radio broadcast; Forbidden Fruit from AMH is from this show. The KB show was never commercially released, but the radio station copies distributed on CD's for broadcast came with a few RR audio drop-ins along with ads to join the Army. I'm guessing that some arrangement was made between the group and the KB people for broadcast release but that some contract ephemera has allowed, shall we say, shadowy labels to release this material. Of note: Forbiddden Fruit is not on this release. I'm guessing that its official release on AMH made it radioactive for the fine folks at the Iconography label. As I've said for a long time, the Palladium show is fantastic, even though they played five new songs they "weren't behind."


Entered at Tue Mar 17 16:56:09 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.179)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: The Palladium

The Palladium show was the last time I saw the original group. The show was broadcasted live over WNEW in New York and sent out to radio stations around the country. These are the kind of radio broadcasts Springsteen is releasing as downloads (cd's are available) on his website with beautiful sound quality. I wish The Band people would look at download releases.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 16:43:05 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

How come nobody ever comes from Colorado to offer us something a bit stronger than Winstons?


Entered at Tue Mar 17 16:07:38 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Pat. No permission then is needed by the remaining members of The Band?

OK....So if it's a radio broadcast the Label is indeed up for grabs. Capitol for example has no say in those recordings and can't look at them as a part of a back catalog? No permission then is needed by the remaining members of The Band; or would Robbie & Garth and the estates of the others have to sign off? That's really all I wanted to know.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 16:02:02 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

John D, both are radio broadcasts.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 15:59:32 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Interesting to find out that Levon needed so many other people to enjoy a resurrection--mostly lead guitarists no less.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 15:51:59 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ben: I appreciate your point of view, but what I was offering was based my own observation of friends, family and acquaintances plus my sense of what's been posted here over the years. If that happens to coincide with conventional wisdom, well, there's a first time for everything. The Band was getting less and less airplay leading up to TLW, even in Toronto, and I suspect it would have faded further if TLW hadn't given the brand a shot in the arm. A sad reflection on other people's tastes, but that's the way it was. On the issue of albatrossitude, while I can see it being a pain in the ass that people would wander into the RocknRoll Lounge at the Hideaway Inn to see The Band! and ask where the guy in the pink scarf is, but on the plus side, most of the people doing the asking would have stayed anyway and it's likely that many wouldn't have come in the first place if there hadn't been a TLW. Plus there were additional royalties to offset the pain in the ass, even if a couple of guys had sold off their publishing.

Speaking of royalty grievances, I was listening to the YouTube clip of Steppenwolf's "Sookie Sookie" the other day; when that one ended the computer immediately went into a different promo clip with the same song but with better sound. One of the follow-on YouTube links from there was to a relatively recent interview with Steppenwolf keyboardist Goldy McJohn. He was talking about being screwed out of not hundreds of thousands of dollars but $10 million! He then went right into talking about Robbie Robertson, but not at all about royalties but about how he used to tell would-be copycats that they had to shred their speakers to get his sound. (This is an oft-repeated tale of course, but being a Torontonian back in the heyday of the Hawks he may well have witnessed something to that effect.)


Entered at Tue Mar 17 15:50:03 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: The Band and New Record Labels

This morning I discovered on Amazon a new Band album, recorded just two months; before The Last Waltz called "Palladium Circles on The Iconography Label." And a few months back "Carter Barron Amphitheater, Washington DC, July 17th Live on The Keyhole Label."

Curious. Is their recorded works now up for grabs. I've heard the latter album on Spotify and it certainly doesn't sound bootlegged


Entered at Tue Mar 17 15:41:14 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.224)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Ben. I agree that The Band's work with Dylan, including the Before the Flood tour, was a huge introduction for The Band. And if they had been included in the Woodstock film yeah, that would have helped the public be aware of them. Look at what that did for acts like Ten Years After.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 15:37:02 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.224)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I caught Ben's initial point when he posted about TLW before.

One very common view of The Last Waltz and RR's motives is that it was his first attempt to publicly portray himself as the centerpiece in the band, around which everyone else revolved and from which they derived their sunlight and received their instructions. And that it was the beginning of his campaign to rewrite the history of the band and present it as he sees fit. which he has done for decades. If they trusted a person, conversations with Band members cast more light on these commonly found opinions.

All that said, TLW movie did elevate The Band into greater public consciousness. And it certainly introduced many peopel to The Band, and provided a great vehicle for anyone to use to turn people on to The band with.

I do think that RR did more harm to his own image than good with his behavior in the movie. For one thing, hollywood people already knew him. He didn't have to pound on his chest. The difference between his behavior, and that of the other two band members you saw much of of, Levon & Rick, can't be missed. Many people, especially humble, observant, or musically inclined ones, don't miss these things, and it sets em to thinking. Geez, listen to these guys. Look at that guy....who does he think he is?

How the Band will be remembered, how the members will be remembered, try as he might, I doubt RR is going to be able accomplish what his goal has been.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 15:23:15 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Bill, you are offering the conventional wisdom about the last waltz. But, I don't buy it. I think that the last waltz became a major albatross for the 4 and later 3 who continued as The Band. Sure, some people "discovered" the Band due to the last waltz. but I think most would have anyway. Just think how may people would have "discovered" them in 1970 if Grossman would have let them appear in the Woodstock movie and on the soundtrack. I think far more people have discovered the Band through their previous work with Dylan than through the last waltz.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 14:51:41 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ben: While "Last Waltz" wouldn't have made Maslow's needs list at all, not even the Bubbling Under section, it sure was a brilliant idea, doncha think? Scads of fans, even GB posters, have cited the TLW movie as their introduction to the Fab Five. No TLW, no TLW movie, fewer sales, (even) less money for all.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 14:11:38 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Peter, it's interesting that you brought up the woodstock times interview with Richard. I re-read those interviews recently, and I was struck by Levon's interview. I got the sense from Levon's interview circa 1985, that it was very up in the air whether the Band would continue. I believe that Levon was touring with the Cate Brothers at this time.

Regarding the questions that I brought up yesterday. Those were the things that struck me after re-reading the two Band books. It struck me as odd, that Rick was pitching songs to Eric Clapton, a short time after NL-SC. So, again, I wonder if those songs had been pitched to the Band for NL-SC. Since Rick was writing songs, it seems to contradict some of Robbie's claims that he was prodding everyone else to contribute songs. Look at Rick's solo album, he was credited with writing or co-writing every song. So, maybe the notion of Robbie encouraging everyone else to contribute songs to the Band is a little exaggerated.

The main point that I wanted to bring up is that there was no need for a 'last waltz'. After the tour ended, they could have gone back to their separate projects. Rick and Levon could have proceeded with their solo albums and tours, Robbie could have kept producing Neil Diamond albums. When you consider how young they were at the time, early to late 30's, it seems that making a 3 record set and movie about retiring was premature, at least for 4 of the guys. And if Robbie's motivation was to get into the movie industry, I'm sure he could have done that organically without the last waltz. He was living around and socializing with these people already.

Regarding Levon's solo projects, besides the 'RCO' album, one of my favorites is 'Souvenir'. I think the Cromatix were a good fit for Levon, I wish that Levon's estate or Professor Louie would release some full length shows from this period.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 11:48:59 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: More feckin perspectives

....Soz, and JA too.

:-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 17 11:23:45 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.224)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Perspective from here

Pete, I'm typing as i prepare to leave hurriedly. So i may get this wrong chronologically and partially conceptually.

Levon's case was other than you present it.
First, he had cancer. And Rick's death occurred all about the same time. So, Levon had illness, financial troubles again, and The Band ended.
The Barnburners, which were not necessarily musically significant ensued, but Vivino's friendship and musical friendship were constant. And there were many shows with Vivino's friends, ( of course, they were often or became Levon's friends too.
Barnburner shows often included Vivino, sometimes Garnier, or vivino & Campbell, sometimes Garnier. .Of Course then campbell started coming alone even if no one else was around . And in the background, Norm Clancy and lawyers were working on Levon;s financial/legal problems , and Paul Schmidt & others were buildng the financial basis.

In Levon;s case , a huge part of the musical resurrection was facilitated by legal and financial resurrection. That is definite enormous step. And a definite huge influence was Jimmy Vivino. Vivino laid the basis. Once it was rolling Campbell & Amy may have gotten it going in a different direction ofr the first recording, but, Jimmy was the first big catalyst, after Levon's long time vision and the legal and fiscal realities being solved.. And Jimmy was also responsible for Band songs being brought back to Lwvon's repertoire.

i expect I'd have more to say & on other aaspects of this if i wasn't late.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 11:02:31 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Perspectives

Some good stuff there gals/fellas. And belated huge thanks to Norbert for keeping the dream alive even if it must have coincided with one of my lengthier sabbaticals. As for the relentless thoroughness of Pete's reflections - well t'is a wonder of the world.

:-0)

Aren't perspectives just the most amazing feckin things? They drive the world whilst destabilising it to feck. From feuds to album/CD logistics. As you get older the more you think you understand - or should understand - you realise the less you actually do.

Apart from PV, of course.

:-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 17 10:38:21 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Richard was chaffing at the bit in those Woodstock Times interviews, wanting to get back to work. The thing is, listening to those tapes and the CDs of live appearances, it was intimate and fascinating for fans, but you couldn’t have promoted a solo tour based on it. The songs can sound under-arranged, incomplete instrumentally. Rick and Levon were both comfortable running a show, but Richard wasn’t. You would have needed a promoter with faith, a proper band (rather than pals turning up).

His writing dried up – Robbie has described trying desperately to get Richard to write. If you look at a lot of great songwriters, they need a partner or catalyst. In Elton John and Brian Wilson’s case, it appears to be an inability to write lyrics. Early on, it looks as if Carole King and Gerry Goffin did a music / lyrics split, even if later Carole King proved adept at doing it all on her own. But in other cases it’s just that a song comes together with a second person. It’s surprising how often Leonard Cohen credits a co-writer, though the results always end up sounding “like Leonard Cohen.” Rick Danko almost always wrote with someone, but there’s something in the melodies which have Rick’s signature on them, whoever the co-writer was. An alternative career path for Richard would have seen him hooking up with another musician to write with, and also someone to push him into concerts, and getting a band together and so on. Rick found that with Eric Anderson and Jonas Fjeld. Levon found it with Amy Helm and Larry Campbell. It’s a tragedy that Richard never found that person. I don’t think it could have been any member of The Band either … too much history.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 08:21:25 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Magic numbers. CD was 74 minutes because the head of Sony wanted to fit Beethoven’s 9th on one disc and it was designed with that in mind. They’d thought of 60m. Now it’s 80 minutes, which is why you see all those “2-on-1” reissues with two LPs on one CD. Conversely, if you browse the vinyl section, you’ll see that some new albums which are one CD, are two LPs in the vinyl version.

I used to see a C-90 cassette as an LP each side too, and I often transfer old (and valuable) rock LPs to CDR, and usually get two on one CD easily. Elvis LPs could get down to 12 to 14 minutes a side. If I assemble 60s singles on a CDR, you can get 26 or 27 of them onto a CDR. I’ve recently done a couple of CDRs as Wedding Anniversary minor presents (well, to put in the card) – 40th and 50th too … and on the 50th one, I just got the Top 30 of their wedding day in, though I had to reduce the track gap from 2 seconds to 1 second. On the 40th, I couldn’t go past The Top 24. I have to confess that for the 50th one, I only had to spend out on iTunes for three tracks. I had the rest, about two thirds off CDS, about one third off vinyl.

There is always a pay off in sound. 45s sound better than EPs. 12” singles sound better than 7” singles. 20 minutes was about right, and if you look at the track timings, the eight songs on NLSC are longer than earlier albums.

Definitely the “40 minute rule” produced albums of more consistent quality. So many 70 minute CDs have filler songs.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 04:00:51 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: If you're gonna have a hit, you gotta make it fit , So they cut it down to 3:05

Peter V. I hadn't considered the format when commenting on NLSC. Until CD's came along, the only Band albums that I had on LP were the earlier ones. Then I filled in on cassette with Best Of's and Anthology type releases. It wasn't until the 2000 CD remasters that I had a full set of all the albums in all the same format. In fact I never even realized that 'Acadian Driftwood' was almost 7 minutes. Testament to the song and performance that it doesn't seem that long. I suppose 8 songs is about right then for that album…maybe could of squeezed 'Home Cooking' on there.

I used to tape a lot of my LP's to listen to in the car, and usually used the 90 minute blank cassettes. Most albums fit comfortably on one side in the allotted 45 minutes. I liked it if there was enough to almost fill up the tape without too much blank space. I used to get irritated when some albums broke the 45 minute barrier, and had to spill over to the other side of the tape.It was nice to be able to get one distinct album on each side of the tape. Eventually they came out with 100 minute tapes which solved that problems, but by then it seemed lime the tape was getting thinner, or putting more wear and tear on the tape transport. Barring any extremely long, or short songs, I always felt that 10 songs (5 on each side of an LP) was just about the right amount of songs for an album.

Once CD's came along and upped the time limit to 74 minutes, and sometimes more, it seemed like some bands lost the ability to edit their work, and threw too many songs on a CD just because they fit, or for some perceived extra value to the consumer.
I like a good value as much as anyone, but not solely for the sake of more quantity.

Bill M. Good point about the timing of any sort of Band reunion. I think the length of time it took between the event and the movie took away any possible momentum. It would have been awkward if the reunion tour happened prior to the theatrical release of the movie celebrating the end of the group. Or the beginning of the beginning of the end of the beginning.

Peter V. Robbie may have been trying to save Richard in some way, but I wonder sometimes if it wouldn't have been better to be a little busier earlier, with projects to work on. When I read the Ruth Albert Spencer interview with Richard from 1985, he seems very clear that The Band hadn't broken up, that they were on a hiatus or vacation, and he fully expected them to work together again. I'm not sure what Richard was doing between 1977 and 1983 or 1984, which is a long span of time, but he very much seems like he wanted to get back to making music. Like a very important piece of his life was missing. The other guys seems able to stay busy enough doing other projects, but I feel like Richard being part of The Band was an important part of his identity.


Entered at Tue Mar 17 03:56:58 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

That 1993 interview with Levon is truly telling.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 23:31:42 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

I tried to find the video where Levon basically stated that in order to sell more books.....Instead I found the reformed Band on Brian Williams' show which I previously posted. It was strange or very telling that when he was asked who was present from the original Band; Levon's response was Garth and Rick and then he included the reformed band members. Also, right back in 1993 Brian asks Levon about any more possible Basement Tapes music and Levon turned around and aknowledged Garth.

Here is a 1993 and 2007 Levon interview once again. It appears he still called Robbie....Robbie and not Robertson at this time and said everyone including Robbie was doing well and that Levon no longer had any animosity and that maybe things worked out well for everyone......

Norbert...You are too kind and generous. Thank you my friend. :-D

Btw I sent Rollie a photo of the kidzzz pretending to play harp while they heard his voice. I really liked Rollie so much and had so much fun with him and others. He wasn't a fan of Robbie but he just teased me about being a fan of Robbie.....He was never ever disrespectful. He always told me to never get involved with a musician. So far so good.

Lisa and Joan...I wasn't planning on returning until maybe Robbie's book came out. I felt like I was repeating myself too much and forgetting which links I had already posted and then....I became hooked on the Toronto Raptors.

So....It was International Women's Day last Sunday when I posted. I was hoping someone else would finally make our day. Anyway, when I heard that Lew Soloff had passed I thought about the VHS I had with him and Garth. Lew's playing always brought so much joy to my life. I thought about how Garth must have really appreciated performing with someone like Lew. I also thought about Marianne Faithfull on this special day as maybe most Band fans here can't stand her singing and yet here she is employing all these fabulous musicians on her show and record!! Don't forget there was also Marc Ribout's guitar playing which was funky and intricate at times. Fernando Saunders I knew from Louuuu's bands. Now he must be a warrior....Although he was the first person who let us in on the Louuuu not everyone knows. You can hear his very sensitive and tender side in some of his songs. Anyway, I just planned on popping in for that one day. Ha, ha, ha.....and blah, blah, blah.....Here we are once again...or.....maybe not so much. Lol

Yeah Magnus!! Maybe you can slip in some Band samples or sample something from Robbe's solo work....Hey, hey, hey! Btw, I was the first one to post about Ariana....and Louuu found Kanye West's music extremely creative so there ya go Magnus! Keep movin' and groovin'......


Entered at Mon Mar 16 21:46:41 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Questions

First Possibility: Clapton albums sold more than Band albums? No Reason to Cry followed two major sellers.

People walking away- Peter Gabriel makes a point indeed; but Brian Wilson kept on writing for the Beach Boys, and had been “non-touring but producing and writing” for years – a role Robbie could have taken. But Richard was walking into the valley of the shadow in 1976. Continuing as they had was not an option. If the others thought they could drag him through 1977 in similar style, thank goodness for Robbie in giving him another nine years.

The only Byrd you could not replace was Roger McGuinn. Traffic … could exist without Dave Mason even if he came and went, but not without Steve Winwood. The Hollies were a covers band, not an originals band. John Cale was a huge loss to the VU, but they survived. It’s just like The Byrds and Roger McGuinn, they couldn’t have survived without Lou Reed.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 20:52:15 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ben: Your post boils down to two questions:

1) Why would Rick "seem to be more interested in getting songs on a Clapton album than the recently recorded Band album"?

I guess that if the album had already been recorded, even if recently, and Rick"s songs weren't on it, then getting them on somebody else's album would be the only option short of waiting for the Band to do another.

2) "Why didn't Robbie just walk away and let the others continue?"

A case can be made that that's what he did, though the others may not have been ready move on the opportunity immediately. Good thing too, because having an OQ-1 on the road while tears were still being shed about the demise of the OQ would have muddied the commercial waters for all.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 20:43:52 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Phil Lesh

Phil opened his 75th birthday concert week at the Capitol theater last night with Ripple,while holding his grandson,Levon.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 19:09:02 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: calling out to sea

Foghorns mean love.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 18:19:59 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: NLSC

Todd, NLSC was an LP, remember? It was about 40 minutes long, and Acadian Driftwood alone approaches 7 minutes long. At the time, the limit for real hi-fidelity on vinyl was generally considered to be 20 minutes a side. As you went past 22, quality declined sharply, ending up in those TV advertised LPs at 30 minutes a side, which have no volume at all. So at 8 songs it was not short, nor in need of more tracks, especially as Garth was making it into a hi-fidelity state-of-the-art sampler, almost.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 17:39:58 CET 2015 from (136.167.102.175)

Posted by:

Dave H

Someone asked David Crosby on Twitter yesterday if he had ever spent any time with the Band. Crosby's response: "Yes and I loved them."


Entered at Mon Mar 16 16:05:41 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.224)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Despite the overdubs, and ignoring the fact the Garth & Richard are not visible during much of the concert performance..The Last Waltz is actually a great represntation of much of The Band's work & a very realistic representation of the state of The Band at the time. Right down to representing where the personalities, lifestyles, & even the personality differences were.

It's esentially required watching. That said, i've watched part of what i think is called The Lost Waltz, and i'd love to have that in color, with better sound. The unreplaced music that i heard was unperfect but friggin amazing. Less accessible, but amazing.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 15:55:23 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Words and Numbers

Not a lot of time now to comment now or follow up, but Ben's question about Rick's and Richard's songs does make me wonder why there were only 8 songs on NLSC. Seems a little slim for a full album. There must have been other songs under consideration at that time...especially with all the years in between 'Cahoots' and 'NLSC'....unless they were saving the others for 'Islands'?

And yes, all 5 Band members must have gotten a vote, or a voice at the table, but Levon does make a comment (I'm paraphrasing here) regarding the business meetings that were happening around that time, and that the "real meeting" where decisions were made seemed to have happened 10 minutes before the start of the meeting.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 15:39:48 CET 2015 from (38.113.85.40)

Posted by:

Dan

Location: New Jersey

Subject: Ben

Ben - the idea was that The Band would stop touring like The Beatles and become a studio band. The road was killing them, even if not all of them could see it. A month before The Last Waltz concert Richard OD'd before a Saturday Night Live gig.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 14:53:15 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.182)

Posted by:

Bob F

Ben, you act like the other four members of The Band didn't have a vote in any decision. Do you really believe that? The Last Waltz was and is a tremendous success. It added to The Band's legacy.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 13:39:13 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

I've been re-reading the Hoskyn's Band book over the weekend. Last week, I re-read Levon's book. The books compliment each other well.

After reading both books, I have a few observations. In Hoskyn's book, there's a comment about Rick pitching songs to Eric Clapton during the 'No reason to cry' sessions as Shangri-La. Two Danko songs are on the album, 'Beautiful thing' credited to Rick and Richard and 'All our past times', credited to Rick solo. I wonder whether these songs were considered for NL-SC. It struck me as odd, that Rick would seem to be more interested in getting songs on a Clapton album than the recently recorded Band album.

The other question that I have is Robbie's motivation for spearheading 'the last waltz'. By 1976, Robbie, Levon and Rick had produced and played on albums for other artists. Undoubtedly Robbie's production work on two Neil Diamond albums was more lucrative than Rick's or Levon's work with Bobby Charles and Muddy Waters. It seems to me that when Robbie decided he didn't want to tour anymore he had a number of options. The easiest thing would have been for the The Band to stop working together at the end of the '76 tour. No star-studded concert and film crew required. There had been several long sabbaticals since 1972, so this would have followed their pattern. The second option would have been for Robbie to leave The Band, and the others could then bring in a replacement and continue. According to Levon's book, Levon asked Robbie about this and he immediately dismissed it.

Many key members have left bands and the bands continued without them. Just off the top of my head, the list would include Brian Wilson, Gene Clark, John Cale, Graham Nash, Dave Mason, Peter Gabriel.

So, why didn't Robbie just walk away and let the others continue?


Entered at Mon Mar 16 13:34:31 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Web: My link

Subject: Embassy label, Levy's studio and a bit more

I think the link between Robert Farnon was less strong than my memory suggests. On a webpage from the Robert Farnon Society, I found a biography of Johnny Grgory. The link is above but here are some relevant extracts:

"Jack called Johnny to meet him at Oriole in 1954. A new label was being launched, Embassy Records, an economy 78rpm product for sale exclusively in Woolworth’s. Johnny, and another musical director called Ken Jones were to provide the arrangements and Baverstock would direct the sessions."

"It was the beginning of the "Chinese Copy" era. As soon as any popular record looked like it was going into the charts, Johnny or Ken would adapt the arrangements from the disc and a singing artist was chosen who could mimic the original artist. They were cranking out 8 records or 16 numbers a week and all had to be finished during the session, no remixing in those days. They were then pressed and in Woolworth stores within five to six days. Many turned out to be better than the originals, and with a nationwide network of Woolworth stores to distribute them, they sold in their tens of thousands."

"Morris Levy, Managing Director of Oriole and Embassy never expected the phenomenal success of "Chinese copies". Morris was a careful businessman; he could see this might be a "South Sea Bubble", but with the occasional hit from Oriole like ‘Freight Train’ – Nancy Whisky and Chas McDevitt, or ‘We will make love’ with Russ Hamilton, their factories at Aston and Colnbrook often ran out of capacity. Eventually, he had to invest in new plant, but he covered his bets with a contract to do the overflow for Decca and EMI."

"In 1956 Jack Baverstock moved from Oriole/Embassy to Philips to become Artists and Repertoire manager at the new Fontana label, and Reg Wharburton replaced him. Johnny followed Jack to Philips on the promise of working for a front line label and to gain recognition for his talents. Morris Levy was devastated; he offered Johnny carte blanche. Johnny reassured him that he was not under contract to Fontana and could service both companies if the need arose. Johnny actually continued with Oriole/Embassy for a further two to three years. The decision to intensify his activities at Fontana was fortuitous, because CBS, who had their records pressed at Oriole, took the company over and asset stripped it."

That’s probably enough on this topic. We must be boring our non-British “guests”.

Perhaps I should add that Dylan’s 12 May 1965 session at Levy’s studio was the first time that Dylan and Eric Clapton would have encountered one another.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 13:28:01 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.179)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Tower Theater

Carmen, I saw Dylan perform two shows there in October 1988. Beautiful theater. Dylan must have thought so also. The first show he did several extra songs including "Every Grain of Sand".


Entered at Mon Mar 16 12:19:51 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Embassy label, Levy's studio and related

Checking through, I have “Blood Sweat & Tears – The First Album” on CBS’s Embassy label - EMB 31028. The inner sleeve bears a price sticker: “99 P / E & J Walker - Irvine”, from the time I lived a few miles from there in Scotland. Frankly, I don’t even remember the shop. The inner sleeve lists almost 40 LPs on the label – gosh, what a mixture!

I also looked back to a couple of articles I’d written, roughly 10 years ago, on Dylan’s session at Levy’s Studio in May 1965. To forget the details in that time is a sure sign of one’s passing years. Levy’s had two pressing plants, one in Aston Clinton and one in Colnbrook. The recording studio was at 73 New Bond Street, with a mixing studio across the street at 101 New Bond Street. The recording studio was on the first floor at the back of the building above the Bunch of Grapes pub, backing on to Dering Street. It had previously been an art gallery and the studio took up a 40’ x 40’ space. I did once visit the place, to a mixture of interest and bemusement on the part of the then occupiers.

The Levys (there was a brother, Jacques) recorded and pressed for Woolworth’s Embassy, as Peter indicated, but they also pressed for the (West African) Melodisc and the (American) Mercury labels.

I don’t know if this link will work but it’s a link I found 10 years ago: https://archive.is/5dYfB. It suggests that Levy’s studio was also called Embassy studios. I suspect that was wrong, though perhaps the amount to which Embassy used the studio. It was probably the fact that the Levys had their own pressing plants, independent of the majors that was the attraction, as it was to Columbia Records. Having said that, it wasn’t long before CBS built its own state-of-the-art pressing plant, as I recall.

I think Levy’s studio had some connection with Robert Farnon, the composer and arranger of “light music”, who worked with the likes of Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Vera Lynn, and many others, as well as composing many film scores (“Colditz story”, one of the Crosby-Hope “road” films etc). I cannot find a specific reference but I guess he must have used the studio./n As Peter says, “The Paul Simon Songbook” was recorded there. The 2004 CD issue shows a tape box and the heading of the tape box shows “Oriole Records Limited”, with the “Oriole” crossed out. I seem to recall that the Jackson C Frank album, which Simon produced, was also recording there, too.



Entered at Mon Mar 16 11:00:38 CET 2015 from (31.53.175.134)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Send Me One Line

John Martyn wrote the beautiful 'Send Me One Line' for the film '84 Charing Cross Road', but it was never used in the film. I picked it as one of my favourite John Martyn tracks on Toppermost.

It was not cool to buy Embassy records. But they served a need in poorer times. They cost, I think, slightly over 4s compared to 6s 8d, and Woolworths was a popular shop.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 10:11:17 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

When CBS bought Oriole, it is said that the very first CBS session in the Oriole studios produced The Paul Simon Songbook. The studios were indeed in New Bond Street an unusual location. Morris Levy who owned Oriole causes confusion by having the same name as the guy who owned Roulette, but there is no connection.

I never bought Embassy for the same reason as Roger. Unlike other budget cover labels which produced 4 or 6 track EPs, Embassy steadfastly produced Double A side singles, often with different artists on the two sides. Embassy's two plants produced unusually thick vinyl singles too. They custom-pressed for other labels when there was a rush on, and oddly Embassy / Oriole pressings are held to be very good quality. Embassy alone had 5% of the UK record market.

Artists are wary about admitting they did Embassy covers for cash. Tommy Steele is often suggested but denies it. Bert Weedon is said to be "Bud Ashton" as well as various "groups" on all the guitar cover instrumental versions. The Pearls on Embassy were The Vernons Girls.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 09:56:30 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Charing Cross Road is the place to see GB people - I was there on Saturday looking at secondhand books before seeing James McAvoy in the play "The Ruling Class." I linked it for those who know the film version.

Yes, Oriole produced Embassy cover versions for Woolworths, and recorded them in the same studio. CBS bought them because they owned their own pressing plant, and soon killed the labels, but after a few years someone saw they owned the Embassy trademark and CBS named a budget series, not realizing the "budget cover" connotations. Embassy 70s LPs were budget versions of existing major artist LPs.

Embassy has become collectable, often with Embassy covers being worth the same as, or more than, original versions. There are a few Embassy CD compilations. One has all The Beatles covers. Others are varied. Allegedly, Oriole sometimes paid the original artists to cover themselves under pseudonyms. Brian Matthews, still going as a DJ on Saturdays, admitted that "Matt Bryant" on Peter Sellers covers was him.

Budget cover labels are an interesting chapter. Elton John is known to have done covers for Pye's part-owned Avenue label in the late 60s and his early 1969-1970 sessions have been released on CD as Reg Dwight’s Piano Goes Pop. When Avenue covered Your Song, people remarked on what a brilliantly realistic cover version it was. Apparently, returning favours to friends at Avenue as well as creating an in-joke, Elton John had covered himself. David Byron and Dana Gillespie also did Avenue covers.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 06:03:01 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Carmen, you are correct. VFMC in the round with Fred Carter, around Christmas, probably 1986. The last show of many I saw with my pal, Jim MacNamara.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 02:08:15 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.224)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

RIP Mike Porcaro


Entered at Mon Mar 16 01:31:45 CET 2015 from (81.107.236.227)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Brum UK

Subject: Embassy

I walked down Charing Cross Road today. The top end has been a building site for a couple of years as Tottenham Court Road tube station is undergoing major developments. As Ian say Marks was further down Charing Cross Road. And Ian - Embassy was indeed the Woolies record label. I was never tempted to buy their chart covers - partly because they bore too little resemblance to the original but mainly because they weren't the original - if that makes sense.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 01:25:05 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.136)

Posted by:

Bill M

Norbert: thanks for that lovely post about the history of the auxiallary GBs, and even more so for your role in keeping us going. I heartily second NWC's tip of the hat to you. And I'll add that the most beautiful and humbling thing. was that it wasn't just for the love of the Band, also (mainly?) for the love of all of us all, not as individuals but as a community.

Ian W: "Tracker" was the early title of "Chest Fever", I believe.


Entered at Mon Mar 16 00:54:43 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA
Web: My link

Subject: The Marshall Tucker Band to rock Sellersville March 18

For those near Philly-This looks like a good one


Entered at Mon Mar 16 00:43:34 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA

Subject: Boss / Tower

Bob - I ordered the CD - still waiting on it. The Tower was an awesome place to see a show. I saw Bruce there on his Ghost of Tom Joad tour. The Tower and Valley Forge Music Fair which is now long gone used to get some great acts. I think the reformed Band may have played VFMF in the late 80's.


Entered at Sun Mar 15 20:02:57 CET 2015 from (108.41.170.168)

Posted by:

Joan

Subject: Duh

Sorry the last post was supposed to be about Jan not by him. I take full credit for it, better or worse


Entered at Sun Mar 15 19:58:11 CET 2015 from (108.41.170.168)

Posted by:

Jan

Congratulations to you and to your son. I remember when you used to talk about him going around Europe with his girlfriend.,. He has come a long way and it's very exciting for him. Best of luck in his MSG performanceYou must be a very proud papa Norbert thank you for your excellent history of the guestbook. I was there for some of it, and you summed it up very well. Retroactive thanks .


Entered at Sun Mar 15 19:53:46 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dobells and Marks & Co.

Marks & Co was on the opposite side of the street and further north along Charing Cross Road. It was just past Cambridge Circus - I think it was the first shop past Cambridge Circus, in fact.

Charing Cross Road was full of second-hand booksellers back then. There are some left but many are now gone. Dobells was founded as a book dealer by Doug Dobell's father, I think. It was Doug Dobell who turned it into a jazz record shop.

The film "84 Charing Cross Road" was an adaptation of a stage play which was premiered in the very town in which I now reside. Indeed, there was a recent re-run of the play in the very same theatre with the very same director, James Rhoose-Evans - but not the same cast, needless to say. The play was derived from the book, of course.

Getting back to jazz record shops, it is a strange part of retail history in Britain that gramaphones and their accessories were first stocked by bicycle shops, so this is where you went to buy your records in the early days. And the first American jazz band to come to Britain was almost 100 years ago.

Then, specialist jazz record shops grew up. The first shop to specialise in jazz here was Levy's in Whitechapel, east London. Levy's went on to start its own labels, one of which was Oriole. It was Oriole that Columbia Records took over in late 1964, which is why, when Dylan wanted to do some recording here in May 1965, he used Levy's recording studio in New Bond Street.

And Levy's was the studio where those compilations of cover versions of the latest hits, made for and sold by Woolworth's, were recorded. I can't remember - were they on the Embassy label, Peter? If so, I think CBS then used the label name for some low-price LPs of their own albums. Does that sound right?


Entered at Sun Mar 15 18:47:47 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Dobells

Would Dobells have been right down the street from Marks & Co., the famous book store of 84 Charing Cross Road? I have a book by Cecil Beaton with their label in it, I was delighted to see.


Entered at Sun Mar 15 14:13:34 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Springsteen Tower Theater 1975

Hey Carmen, did you order the new Springsteen download from the Tower Theater 1975? Amazing sound.


Entered at Sun Mar 15 13:12:09 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dobells record shop

Yes, Norbet, thanks, the wonderful Dobells record shop. I spent quite a bit of time in there - more times than I bought anything at that stage in my life.

I don't know how much time Dylan actually spent in Dobells. He contributed to an album by Eric Von Schmidt and Richard Farina that was recorded in the basement of the jazz shop and Suze Rotolo had a couple of LPs that he had got in Britain in 1962-63 and inscribed - and I can only think he got them at Dobells.

Dobells was based in Charing Cross Road at No.77, which is the right-hand side of the colour photo in the link. That is the original shop and Dobells concentrated on jazz and blues. At the time Dylan was in London in late-1962 and early-1963, Dobells folk music shop was not there - it was in Rathbone Place, as I recall. It later moved next door to the jazz shop, that is, to No.75 Charing Cross Road. That is the left-hand shop in the colour photograph in the link. The records that Dylan had got (and maybe he got more) were blues records, as I recall, so they were likely from the shop at No.77. The guy who ran the folk shop, known as "Red Nerk", attended the aforementioned recording session and has talked about that but did not, to the best of my memory, mention Dylan visiting the Rathbone Place (?) shop.

As it happens, I went to the opening night of the Dobells exhibition mentioned in the aricle. Though it was not a large exhibition, it was well worth the trip up to town. I saw some memory-jogging exhibits and met some people from the past.


Entered at Sun Mar 15 12:46:43 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: Dobells Record Shop London (link)

Check this guy out, from when record buying was still an adventure:

‘.....first album I ever bought. I cycled up to London from Poole to purchase it at Dobell's jazz record shop, and cycled all the way back with it strapped to my rear cycle rack with a bunjy chord (a round trip of 200miles). It's a miracle it wasn't damaged, I still have it.’ Mike Hatchard musician

....?!

Ian, I read that Bob Dylan was a lot there in 1962-1963.

Peter, thanks.

Lisa, you know what they say: It's the journey that matters in the end ...... (and the journey was great).


Entered at Sun Mar 15 10:58:33 CET 2015 from (94.185.232.105)

Posted by:

Peter V

Fabulous piece, Norbert. I thought you'd sent me the archives. I looked on my computer but couldn't find them. I think I would have archived them onto CDR. I'll look when I get back home (in London for theatre today).


Entered at Sun Mar 15 02:11:54 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.210)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Mook

One of Rob Leon's. These might be over 35 years old.
To this day, Rob, now passed several years, is still my cousin's favorite guitarist to have worked with. The friendship and musical alliance was over many decades, I remember they already had a band when i was 16. Wolfbane. I've been told more than once, Edgar winter saw them rehearse an instrumental, then soon came out with Frankenstein - which they say is very very close...


Entered at Sun Mar 15 01:30:35 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.210)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Just for fun, one of my cousin Mike's. This goes back about 30 years, maybe more. The Late Night Band at The Lake. that's Rob Leon (RIP) on guitar, Lincoln Schleiffer on bass. Both well known names here in the greater NYC area.

They were called The Late Night Band cause the club owners in Ulster County all knew that they could pretty much call these guys and ask em to play at any hour, till any hour, and they would.


Entered at Sun Mar 15 00:40:40 CET 2015 from (24.222.133.194)

Posted by:

joe j

Web: My link

Subject: Ron-Dels

Delbert McClinton on lead vocals.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 22:30:53 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.210)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

The other thing Jakob Dylan said that was great was how the Band was unique, the best. That's it rare to get 5 of the best players into one band, that all the best is almost never accomplished.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 20:32:18 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Lisa, thank you. Sorry, I used this war situation as a metaphor a little too strong here ;-)

Anyway why I called Angie little warrior is that she always fights for what she beliefs in and defends the underprivileged (I love her).


Entered at Sat Mar 14 19:49:49 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Norbert

And now I know why you called beg "little warrior" when she came back - the GB Underground and Resistance!


Entered at Sat Mar 14 17:58:08 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Norbert, that was a wonderful post - thank you so much for that! Really shows the tenacity of the dedicated people here who have worked so long and hard in the face of so many trials and tribulations.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 16:49:18 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Web: My link

Subject: Rick Danko - Full Concert - 12/17/77 - Capitol Theatre

And another


Entered at Sat Mar 14 16:47:52 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: pa
Web: My link

Subject: The Band - Full Concert - 07/20/76 - Casino Arena

Your welcome Bob - another one for you


Entered at Sat Mar 14 15:56:43 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.210)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Jakob

That Jakob Dylan interview- the man could not have spoke in more general terms. Saying Leon was generous in his interactions, if you knew the man , or even just dealt with him, you know ...but otherwise, it's very general.....
I enjoyed the two specific things he said, about Levon's singular advise not to try to think about how you raise a family on the road- you just take em with you -, and why he chose to perform Ain't Got No Home at the tribute show.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 15:03:40 CET 2015 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Cyber thanks

And a reflection on those we have lost: I think it is amazing that the legacy of stellar individuals and their values live on because of a cyber phenomenon. We all know about individuals (no longer with us and some who continue to write) because of this site and that is a gift to our existence. For those of you writing about the past here, thanks for reminding us all of the best of who was here, from the OQ themselves to those here who remember them in all the ways we remember them.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 14:54:26 CET 2015 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Pride in our children

And to Jan: Our children: They are a small reflection of our being. They are continuity and their success enriches the world. The small part we have played in that success as parents (in whatever way we influenced that success) is something special. Congratulations, Jan.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 14:50:01 CET 2015 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Yesterday, today and tomorrow

It is a true comforting pleasure to read about all of these memories of this and related GBs, the contributors, the leaders and even the controversies. Tradition and loyalty are precious. I had been an avid reader of this site for many years before (though I did not contribute much until more recent years). I have nothing but admiration for all of you who have kept this site going in one way or another because it has contributed in an important way to culture and that is what we humans are all about. Thank you to all.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 14:44:52 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

p.s., congrats Jan! (but never forget this GB mate ;-)


Entered at Sat Mar 14 14:40:42 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Thanks Carmen

Carmen, I really enjoyed your great links this morning. Thanks.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 14:29:50 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Germany
Web: My link

Subject: Little Pink, The GB during wartime

Lisa, more than 10 years ago now, must have been winter 2003, it was war in this very GB, the air was thick and poisoned. It was dark here and a raw wind chilling, you had to watch your steps, mines exploding, mutilating all over the place. Those who survived this and still could walk, where waylaid by snipers dressed up as lawyers. We had to move at night trough the alleys, run from block to block. One day they shot Jan and he had to close his life work and masterpiece The Band Guestbook.

So they killed this GB, but they could kill our faith our memories and hope, our spirit remained. In secret places a GB resistant groups started to grow. Sometime later, from a hiding place Tracy started Little Pink, from a free sort of guestbook, it worked but that was it.

I witnessed all this and I couldn’t get those touching posts of e.g. The Brown Eyed Girl out of my head, teaching her little black, white and yellow classroom kids form a deprived neighborhood about The Band and real music and how they listened and react. Rollie, Jeff Newson (who was at The Last Waltz ;-), a roaring and gifted mouth harmonica player, once made a dedicated recording for those kids, with a, special made for them, spoken introduction, they loved it, all smiling, all having a great time (see the power of music here).

Anyway I decided to make a new GB myself. I asked the computer guys at my work how to do this and hired some interned space. Being the opposite of a computer nerd it took me weeks and weeks to make it, It became an obsessing for me, but one day I made it. It worked well and was fully automatic, you even didn’t need the backslash thing, the hard return worked. I could fill in a number of posts to be seen on the screen and the rest traveled from itself to the archives (a newt post would push the oldest post from the screen to the archive). Odd is that I took some sort of strange pride of connecting The Band to The Netherlands in some form. (I still lived in Holland then) b.t.w. the server host at that time was situated in Amsterdam (not unimported ;-).

When my GB was ready Tracy agreed to let go of her Little Pink and moderated mine and Jan put up the important (vital) link to the new Dutch GB. It all worked! Shortly after I asked Peter and Ilkka (aka the Scania NorthWestCoaster) to moderate this GB. Not long after this beginning Tracy and Ilkka stopped moderating and Peter did it alone (I helped out only some). We can’t thank Peter enough for doing this, it was a long period of 4-5 years I learn from the missing achieves. Due to the time difference between Europe and the USA & Canada (Peter had had to sleep some time) later on Pat (Brennan) helped out till the end.

There were some battles fought there and we had some ‘strong’ posters Bob Wigo, Butch, Steve, the little, always, trouble making girl with the golden heart, etc. etc. There must have been thousands and thousands of posts.

As Pat said it wasn’t all fight there, most fights continued from the old GB so nothing new. Most of us where having a good time and there were a lot of touching moments. I remember that, my mother was in living in an elderly home and her mind was getting less, we watched The Complete Last Waltz together and my mom watch it with open mouth and said “those boys are good”. I posted about that and Diamond Lil posted that she cried when I danced with my mother on the Last Waltz theme. She was wrong this hadn’t actually happened, but strange enough when I think about my mother now I still can see us dancing on The Last Waltz theme there in that little room in that grey elderly home, so after all it was true, it just happened. Not long after that she died, I still remember all the touching posts placed then (thanks again all).

During that period I (& my family) moved to Germany, The Band GB stayed in Amsterdam though

I remember another post when someone (new) said we didn’t talk enough about the Band and then we all made Band related things up, to proof we are real fans, Sam was wet sanding Rick’s old Mercedes, another had played with the band and so on (some things where actually true though), anyway we had lots of fun. There were a lot of beautiful and heartbreaking posts, but also just about normal little things, it became a home too.

At the end we got more and more spam to delete, I deleted much but also Peter and Pat must have deleted tons of it. Most spam came from Russia if I’m correct.

Spam was one thing but on top of that we got hackers. Attack after attack and in the end it was unworkable. I remember going to bed thinking this is it, we have to close it. But then the wonder ..... the other day, that morning, as I just was about to pull the plug. Jan had reopened this GB…..so miracles do happen after all…. .

Is there anything saved? Well yes and no. I made a three copies of the whole thing (such a copy is a ball of code mixed up with posts, but you still can read them). I mailed one to Peter, put one on my own computer and one at my computer (server) at work. Peter and I don’t have a copy anymore due to laptop changes. Maybe the one copy on the server at my work is still there, although I doubt that but not 100% sure here. Would be nice if we could fill those here in the archieve gap.

Was it worth all the effort? Yes! Albeit from enjoying all those fantastic posts and posters, I (we) learned a lot in that time about people and about ourselves.

Thank you Tracy, Jan, Ilkka, Pat and special Peter, but most of all thanks to all those great Band fans here from all over the world, thanks!

That dear Lisa is the story of the GB in wartime, thank you. Have a nice weekend all!


Entered at Sat Mar 14 13:50:59 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Concerts for Money and CDs for free

My wife wanted to attend several Mark Knopfler concerts on his forthcoming tour in support of his new album, "Tracker", and, on the first day of the ticket sales, I helped her secure some tickets on-line.Each sale came with a free copy of the (basic) CD (that is, not the De Luxe edition).

Today, through the post, came the CDs. So now we have four copies of the CD between us. Is this the future?


Entered at Sat Mar 14 13:32:05 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Web: My link

Subject: Jacob Dylan

This is a great interview. Talks Levon and then listen to what he says about the Band


Entered at Sat Mar 14 13:15:11 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA
Web: My link

Subject: Grace Potter Love For Levon

What a great performance by Grace Potter -


Entered at Sat Mar 14 13:05:41 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA
Web: My link

Subject: Boss and the Weight

Don't know if this one has been discusses here but see Bruce honor Levon


Entered at Sat Mar 14 11:13:05 CET 2015 from (31.53.175.172)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: The Band

That's a great post, Jeff. I know what you mean.

Billy Vera's quote, posted by Peter, is really good. It's amazing, over the years, how many artistes relate to the Band.

We know we've all backed winners here.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 10:33:43 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NortWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: The missing gb

On a serious side... Norbert is the gb hero. He saved the gb. I had the opportunity to follow his work daily. He created his gb for the love to the music and for the love to this community. I have always been confident with the Dutch people and now I had the chance to see how dedicated they can be. Did you know that he paid the gb from his own pocket? It was not a free web site. - A kind a guy you come in contact with only once or twice in a lifetime.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 03:45:52 CET 2015 from (67.84.78.167)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Unfortunately i forgot to include in my last post that it was Levon's mandolin & vocal performance, Rick's bass & harmony, and Garth's accordion, even the whole performance by the 6 men, that of course put me in mind of The Band , and the OQ. The reformed - Band had their moments of brilliance & certainly often enough, , definitely could take you back in time in their own way .

The Band itself would not have remained the same , had there not been any line up changes. Had they reunited as 5.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 03:30:36 CET 2015 from (67.84.78.167)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

A couple of the Dankettes have told me they think I named em. I thought Dave Zuck did. Maybe he came up with Danketeers, & i revised it. Maybe vice versa.......No way will i ever remember how it happened, but i do remember coming up with Dankin Donuts, Danko Days, and there was more. Who introduced the term, The Danko Shuffle? I think Carol brought it in..

If you knew Rick, or saw him often in life or on shows, or maybe even if you saw enough videos.. in that video performance of Atlantic City that BEG linked, at 2:29 there's a split second where he peaks in, & there's one of those classic mischievously friendly, warm, & endearing Rick faces. Then there's another that's just a little less so. Want to see grown people get emotional, even if they ain't showing it, if you're with friends or other people who knew Rick, he'll come up, and sooner or later someone will say something, quote him, or tell some story, that everyone may know or not.....even though no one really says anything, everyone knows everyone is feeling the loss hard at that moment.. there's some losses that you get used to and they still are a perpetual loss.

First time i was at Levon's......... March 2002, in the Pre Ramble days . We started in the kitchen i guess. Levon takes me into the studio, which at the time was empty. I remember turning around & seeing Richard's lap steel leaning against a door. It caught me off guard. And hit me like a ton of brick's. I probably should have not looked at Levon at that moment, but i did. He saw my face and that i was speechless. & couldn't speak. after a second he said "Richard's". Or I might have turned to stone. .. I guess saying that made it easier for us both. but it wasn't easy..There's things that just don't ever go away, they just are. That's one of em. Think about how people who loved his music and what he brought to music, what he gave and what you could feel in his vocal performances, and how that has caused you to be impacted by his suicide/ death. then try to imagine how it was or is for those who were joined at the hip to him, his friends that were his family. Like i wrote before, perpetual loss.

What's my point? I haven't the slightest fucking idea. I'm feeling that maybe it's just to remind everyone how important these guys are. And - how important The Band was to them. It was their Band. 5 Guys started it. It could not have happened had they not been together prior and it could not have happened without them all.

But 4 of them kept it going. 4 of them stayed closer, personally but musically too. Some of them felt the musical need to revive it. And try to accept that with these kinds of talents, you cannot separate the music from the person. Four of them revived The Band.

The auteur theory just don't work out nor does it do justice to the reality of the music of the early Band.


Entered at Sat Mar 14 00:02:43 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Great blues song featuring the amazing Levon Helm.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 23:51:24 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Jan, that's unbelievable! You must be so proud. Congratulations!


Entered at Fri Mar 13 23:42:30 CET 2015 from (67.84.78.167)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Mazel Tov, Jan! Quite a wonderful thing. Congrats to Magnus.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 23:19:04 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Fantastic, Jan. It must be down to the high quality of the parental taste in music and exposure early on to extraordinary sounds!


Entered at Fri Mar 13 23:16:45 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

Another one from Randy Ciarlante of The Band and The Weight opens his Vault!

"Got Me A Woman"
Levon Helm, Jim Weider, Randy Ciarlante and Stan Szelest
King Biscuit Blues Festival 1989


Entered at Fri Mar 13 22:28:14 CET 2015 from (84.215.230.4)

Posted by:

jh

In 1981, a U2 still on the rise played at the Paradise Club in Boston. The 1000-capacity venue opened in 1977, and is still going strong. Tonight, our own Cashmere Cat/Magnus is their headliner. The show is sold out. His gig is part of a current US/Canada tour, where Magnus starts the evenings opening for Ariana Grande at 20 000+ arenas, then moves on to late-night gigs for EDM and electronica fans at nearby clubs and theatres. In between all the travelling and playing, he is constantly working on new music and productions for a wide range of acts. Magnus is probably among the hardest working artists in this business. He has been totally focused and dedicated to the music for more than 10 years now. The success lately, including collaborations with top-acts like Kanye West and Ariana, and a new single in the Billboard Hot 100, is well deserved and wonderful to watch for us old folks over here in Norway. We're looking forward to more beautiful music and more history-making events to come. And, of course, to our visit to NYC next week, to see Magnus perform at the Madison Square Garden!


Entered at Fri Mar 13 22:16:35 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

It's interesting to compare Steppenwolf, almost garage band but a lot of attitude, with Don Covay, backed impeccably by Booker T. and The MGs, plus The Memphis Horns. In terms of playing ability it's no competition, but the Steppenwolf version was always a lot of fun. I suspect the bass guitarists here are going to vote for Don Covay (unless Alice Cooper has covered it, obviously).


Entered at Fri Mar 13 22:03:06 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

The Reformed Band - Atlantic City - NBC Today Show 1993

NBC Today Show with Brian Williams


Entered at Fri Mar 13 21:40:09 CET 2015 from (63.142.158.9)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: I Am Become Geezered, Destroyer Of New Sounds

Jan H - All congrats! That's huge! But... I can't understand the lyrics and why does it have to be so loud?? Welcome to 1956 and I'm a small town preacher concerned about this way-out music and the kids today. I think it just might be time now for the Boomers to get the fuck out of the way!


Entered at Fri Mar 13 20:08:51 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

Don't step on that banana peel...

Lisa, it was pretty benign. I was a moderator and we had to watch for spam constantly. Most people behaved like adults.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 20:04:06 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Little Pink

Did you ever archive it, Norbert? Or is it just lost in the ether?


Entered at Fri Mar 13 19:56:47 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

So true, I've learned an enormous amount from this GB. Which is part of the fun, and for anyone who likes research it's a never-ending treasure chest.

It sounds like Little Pink was even more of a WW2 (Wild West 2) battleground than I thought. Is it just as well as it isn't available now, or has a whole history been irrevocably lost?

It's interesting that such a tiny percentage of bad apples can wreak so much havoc. It seems to happen across the board, from corporations to politics to alarming situations in the world now - to just about anything. And it happens everywhere on the internet - you can't go to any site, no matter how mundane, without running into nastiness. It starts out small, sometimes from something that's been misinterpreted, then people get indignant and entrenched, and the free-for-all's on! Though there seems to be something about music that especially incites people to newer highs (or lows). Sometimes I wonder if the fued didn't start this way. Human nature, I guess ... not sure what you can do about that.

I bought Levon's book when it first came out, and read it several times. One thing that gradually struck me was that you could tell the real, genuine Levon from Stephen Davis. And a lot of the book was Stephen Davis, not Levon. It's hard to tell how much the book was a priority to Levon, and maybe he didn't even read it before it went to print, who knows? In 1993 I don't think the feud was even general knowledge. I was at a two hour+ Q & A session Music West put on that year with Robbie Robertson (who was the keynote speaker in '93) and in all that time I don't remember a single person asking questions about any bad feeling between Levon and Robbie. I think the feud took on a life of its own, got the bit in its teeth and galloped off.

Al, Rollie was another memorable character. I have his album, Rockin' Chair's too. Joan, wish I knew the Dankettes, so sorry I missed them!


Entered at Fri Mar 13 19:54:53 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Sookie Sookie

You should just check out the original version.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 19:11:35 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Sookie, Sookie--what a great opening song for an album.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 18:45:24 CET 2015 from (108.41.170.168)

Posted by:

Joan

Lisa, thank you for your insights sometimes I feel like I'm on the forest here. I was one of the Dankette. Most of us left because they couldn't stand the feuding and the assaults onr on Rick and others. I think often about Steve. I still have his salsa recipe that he sent to me he made about as much is the the entire city of Mexico City. There were some posters here that got very nasty and women went away I really was happy some of the worst provocateurs did not come over when Jan reopened this one. We all seem to get along eventually. We never going solve the problem of the feud. But will continue to argue about it hopefully mostly amiabiliably. It's nice to have some female companionship here. I also don't feel that confident that my musical choices and knowledge to post often , but, the information I learned by being here


Entered at Fri Mar 13 18:43:35 CET 2015 from (24.114.90.56)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Lisa's observations about the GB also are a reminder that for many of us, all of this checking in to see what's happening was more subculture and in some ways more odd in a world before Facebook and twitter. Anyone else ever get yelled at for "spending more time with Bob Dylan than me" Jumping Jesus, even in those times of occasional stresses of the heart, hanging out here was seen as more of a Bob Dylan thing than a Band thing ! Of course, now everyone is on Facebook all the time - so logging on here is normal business............weird, some day The Band may even be more popular than Alice Cooper.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 18:40:12 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

Subject: let it hang out baby

Ben: I've also read Steven Davis's Carly Simon book, so I know he's not a fact-checker by nature, or even a particularly thorough thinker.

Peter V: I suspect I'm not the only one here whose first introduction to the Don Covay name was the song credits on the first Steppenwolf album. Their first single was a cover of his "Sookie Sookie".


Entered at Fri Mar 13 18:30:20 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

That's a backslash-handed compliment if ever I heard one K!!

:-0)


Entered at Fri Mar 13 17:20:01 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Yet Levon never did a thing--other than list his grievances--to rectify the fued.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 16:41:46 CET 2015 from (24.114.90.56)

Posted by:

Kevin J

My memories of the missing years GB are very positive, actually. For those that missed it........The Dankettes were born, reigned gloriously for a time and then retired, Peter called Jeff to infractions court monthly and Jeff retaliated by suspending the use of all capitalization and paragragh breaks in all the PutEmUp(friendO posts for years, Steve would talk politics 80% of the time and in the end, I learned a whole lot more about The Band and all sorts of new music than I would have from any other source I knew.

Al Edge sat out the era but returned right near the end and I still remember him being delighted that the backslash n's were not needed in the renegade world.......a few months later, they were! Come to think of it, maybe Al is responsible for that.....and a new feud is born.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 16:05:53 CET 2015 from (67.84.78.167)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, in Tracy's & Norbert's GBs, Sir Petah Tex was firing at anything that moved. I'm glad you gave up sugar, caffeine, or maybe only moderating.

Lisa, would you close your eyes, and try to imagine Pete dressed in black.... the hat, matching six shooters, the holsters tied down to his legs., the works..... please try to imagine it without peeing your pants......


Entered at Fri Mar 13 13:40:00 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: This Wheel's on fire

I've dug out Levon's book and re-read the second half of it. It's an enjoyable read, but a few things stick out. The manager(s) who replaced Albert Grossman were never identified. There are several places where Levon describes arguing with the "managers" and "lawyers" but these people are never given names, so it reads pretty awkwardly. The other thing is the time-line of Jim Weider joining The Band. The book states that Weider joined in 1983 along with 3 members of the Cate Bros. This is incorrect. I believe that Weider joined in 1985.

It's understandable that Levon made a few mistakes in his time-line. But it's surprising that Stephen Davis or the editor didn't catch these things.

The other thing that sticks out is the songwriting issue. It is only mentioned briefly. The last waltz is discussed in much greater detail and seems to be the real catalyst for Levon's "feud" with Robbie.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 12:40:28 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Al, I was thinking about this. They might be right, The Beatles should never have left the Cavern. I bet they could be making a good living now doing the pubs. Everyone likes a decent bit of rock and roll, and if Paul had expanded Besame Mucho and Till There Was You to a few other show tunes, they could get work in the afternoons doing Care Home sing-alongs too. I bet there’s lucrative work doing the bar in the Crowne Plaza and Marriot if Paul worked a bit on his piano playing. Instead they bugger off, and Ringo goes on TV (and he should be ashamed to go on TV without a jacket and tie too) and mouths off about preferring to live in Malibu than Liverpool. Unbelievable. And anyway, I prefer Baileys to Malibu.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 12:27:18 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Al, once we found how to trace URLs so much of that shite was from two guys. A large percentage from one.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 12:25:06 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Don Covay

I'm in the early stages of a Toppermost on Don Covay (RIP). I found the sleeve notes to "The Definitive Don Covay" CD were by Billy Vera (himself a great recording artist with Judy Clay). Billy Vera describes the 1965 Stax sessions with Booker T and The MGs which produced See Saw, Sookie Sookie and Iron Out The Rough Spots.

BILLY VERA: “(Don Covay) had something extra which set him apart from other soul artists of the day, something which qualified him as rock ‘n’ roll, as much as an R&B performer,. I have always felt, that until The Band came along, these (Stax sessions) were the last “rock ‘n’ roll” as opposed to “rock” recordings.” END QUOTE

Funny how these Band references come up!


Entered at Fri Mar 13 12:05:55 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Those archives from June 2003

First off - 12 years ago!! TWELVE - Jeez!

Then - the quality of the posts. As ever a glut of great postings from wholehearted genuine souls.

Then the venomous shite from the likes of Dale which got the place shut down for a week or so. Shudder.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 11:58:04 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Paul Godfrey

Another nice bloke form back then sadly no longer with us.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 11:06:41 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: The good old bad old good days

Thought provoking reflections in your posts Lisa. Without meaning to patronise your sex they're the sort of reflections that women do best!

I often see references to Steve [and his wife marge] but I never had the privilege of being on here at the same time as he was posting. Sad for someone to leave us so young and vibrant. I always feel as if i've missed out. Thoughts on these lines go back always to Rollie - I think his name was jeff Newsom [apologies if I've got it wrong] I think he always used to joke about 'did I ever tell you I was at The LW]

I'm staggered to hear that the Little Pink site was going for 5 years and the level of cyber violence/abuse that was taking place. Some sick people out there. Do we pity them or despise them? Or both? I'll let a woman reflect on that one.

My own nemesis on here - and Pete's too I recall - was Serge. I don't think he could ever stand the fact that The Band spread their wings and reached far corner of the globe away from their Toronto nest. Particularly the non-French speaking islands on the other side of the pond.

His resentment of others discovering the majesty of The Band always reminded me of the way some Liverpudlians resented the Beatles leaving their home city.

God knows how many hiatuses I've had from here. Must run into double figures I guess. But you're right Lisa, for whatever reason - perhaps encompassing a yearning to belong to something basically worthwhile and decent like the GB - like bad pennies some of us keep returning even if only momentarily.

I'm sure there's more who actually turn up here but for whatever reason don't feel inclined to post. It'd be fantastic to hear from some of them if that was the case. Even those like Diamond Lil and Amanda that went off to set up that other Band cyber community.

Good stuff. Life's too feckin short. Bit like memories.

:-0)


Entered at Fri Mar 13 10:41:15 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I just looked back. If you go to Monday June 9th 2003 in the archives, and the post from "Dale" (one of many pseudonyms) you will see the sort of stuff that was being posted.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 09:06:41 CET 2015 from (219.89.58.1)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: Trolls

It's really sad that that sort of online abuse happens. When push comes to shove we're all here because we love The Band. We may have differences in opinion why things turned to custard but in the end our respect for The Band really out ways our differences. It's a sad fact of the internet that it's so easy to get angry.

Hats off to Jan H.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 08:39:23 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Peter's Alright

Aw, shucks. I’m unused to compliments. You’ll embarrass me. Did Little Pink run that long? It seemed like a year or two. It was always linked from here. Moderators existed here too in the period before the shutdown too.

Back on the GB, there was wild stuff at one time. Some was threatening, some was libellous to Band members (and when dates and places were checked, patently untrue). To put all this in perspective, you had stuff like someone innocently saying they had moved house to a small town, then a “cyber enemy” posting the address and the freak saying “I am watching you.” Clearly real estate agents websites for a small town would give information on a house sold that day. Over the years, this one adopted a number of literary names, started out ingratiatingly, then got vicious. The private emails were much worse than what got posted. I had threats that his Hells Angels pals were in England and were coming to get me. This one in particular got re-banned when we realized after the couple of ingratiating weeks with a new name, who he was. He was using fake URL software so it always took a while to work it out. There was another vicious one with shifting URLs too. Vicious personal attacks and all threats got taken down, just as they would be now. But we’re older and calmer perhaps. I think 90% of us would have taken down what got taken down. If we took someone down three times in quick succession, we warned them and banned them. Seems fair. No one was ever taken out for stating an opinion or a preference nor strong disagreement. It tended to be me who pressed delete because of time scales. Much of this stuff was posted in the middle of the North American night, or early in the North American morning, so that here, five hours ahead, I was generally the first to see it.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 08:04:14 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.82)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Lisa, I think Tracy, Peter , and possibly Pat moderated Tracy's GB. And Peter & Pat moderated Norbert's GB. I bet the webpages were burned....... You never would recognize the Peter of those days, he was a regular Johnny Ringo outlaw type marshal. The first & most appropriate name I could muster up to refer to him by was Sir Petah Tex. Pat, well he was just plain old Pat.. Never did delete anyone's post, but Petah Tex, he was hitting that delete button like he was making city slickers dance with his Colt 45. Banning people left & right too. All in all though, I gotta tell ya, Pete's alright. And i mean that. It'd be easier if everyone agreed with him on the big stuff, but, he's alright.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 06:38:28 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Kevin, I really missed a lot, didn't I? Every so often a little hint of what went on pops up here and there, so you can't help wondering. And the GB is definitely not a frivolity, though like you I'd have a hard time defining what exactly it is. How about "a truly interesting and absorbing testimony to a widely-varying group of people who originally came together because of a common love of music and The Band, and twenty years later are still together". It's almost like a marriage, when you think of it in those terms - for better or for worse. And I think the level is quite high - does anyone know of any other site which has existed so extensively for so many years? Maybe there are some, but I'll bet they aren't as interesting as this Guest Book. And there's certainly no question that it's addictive, is there?

JT, I hope you know I was just joking about the cilantro - I do know just what you mean ...


Entered at Fri Mar 13 06:02:09 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Jeff

Yes, I realized that of course, pretty hard to miss that five-year gap! I knew about Little Pink, but as far as I know it's not accessible, is it?

You're right about the anthropological puzzle - it's obvious a lot went on there too, and a lot of posters never came back. And the people who caused Jan to shut down the GB all those warning times and then the five year hiatus often seemed to me to be quite disturbed in a lot of ways. It was distressing to read, so I can well imagine what it was like to be here when it was actually happening.

Now things can get heated for sure, but it stops short of that ugly stage, thank goodness, and in spite of differences of opinion people respect each other enough to keep things civil. There will always be disagreements, but they usually cause things to get more animated, and more people start posting which keeps things interesting. So in a way it's a good thing!


Entered at Fri Mar 13 05:49:44 CET 2015 from (24.114.90.56)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Lisa: You are a thoughtful person.....and an interesting angle on what could be thought of as nothing more than some rock n roll frivolity......the GB universe, that is...........it is clearly more than that - that is for sure - just not sure exactly what..........as to Steve, looking back at the archives here would, I think, be a most incomplete package as his heyday was clearly during that raucous period known as the "little pink/missing years" era where the GB was renegade and wild and as far as I know, no record of those shenanagins remain anywhere.

Jeff: Thank you about Julie. I really appreciate that.


Entered at Fri Mar 13 03:51:29 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.82)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Lisa, Jan actually shut down several times. If I'm correct, it was never because of anyone who still participates regularly.There were two replacement GBs, i believe Tracy's Pink was the first, maybe Little Pink or Big Pink, then when Tracy had enough, I believe Norbert put his up. If you are into soap opera, and the history of the relationships, alot happened there that would inform you further. Big pieces to the anthropological social puzzle


Entered at Fri Mar 13 03:26:05 CET 2015 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Lisa

I think you just nailed it with everything you said. Thank you!


Entered at Thu Mar 12 23:57:50 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Shades

Jan: The future is bright (you 'gotta wear shades')! Congratulations for the nth time. It just keeps getting better.


Entered at Thu Mar 12 22:43:24 CET 2015 from (84.215.230.4)

Posted by:

jh

and we just entered the Billboard Hot 100. plus #1 on the Billboard Emerging Artists list. time for a reminder on how Elvis took care of his old folks...


Entered at Thu Mar 12 21:41:31 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Lisa, thanks so much for that. Steve, a guy I never met, comes into my mind so often.


Entered at Thu Mar 12 21:38:46 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Getting older

JT, I've had the same experience. There are all kinds of things I like now that I didn't before, like cilantro for instance.

I don't post very often because I don't have the extent of musical knowledge the rest of you here do, so don't really have much to contribute in that area. But over the four years I've been reading the GB daily, I've also been working my through the archives. This has been quite a lengthy project, as it can take hours to get through a single month, let alone all those years.

I just reached January, 2011 and came to Marge's post, where she wrote that Steve had died, and I have to say it hit like a ton of bricks, even though I knew it was coming somewhere along the line. He was such a character, and you got such a vivid picture of who he was - his farm, his life and his family. He was one of my favorite posters to read, always had something to say - provocative, mischievous, sly, funny - the list of adjectives to describe Steve would be a long one. I wonder if anyone knows how Marge is now, if she kept the farm, etc.?

It made me realize how important the people here become to each other, especially the people who have been exchanging viewpoints for years now. The friendships (and maybe antagonisms?) are just as real as any in the physical world, and perhaps the images we have in our minds of each other, too.


Entered at Thu Mar 12 18:27:07 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I've had the Dylan paintings discussions in several galleries now. Some of them I would hang and look at and enjoy. Others I wouldn't. Where I object, is these are large editions (even if "limited") sold at extremely high prices. They sell for the price of good original paintings because of the signature at the bottom. Because I've seen them filling so many galleries, they are taking a lot of market share from full-time artists. He might enjoy doing them, but they're also big business. He does have a talent, as many artists agree, but his technical competence is below that of (say) Ronnie Wood, also filling large areas of wall space in galleries. As are lots of large Marvel prints only because they have "Stan Lee" as a signature written at the bottom.

To me, it's "cruise ship" art mentality, and I'd compare it with (say) Dorset Art Week where local artists open their studios for a week, and for £3800 you could get an extremely good original with a lot more work, technique and style. But no famous signature. In fact for £3800 you could get four decent originals. I know you don't buy art by the yard, or quantity.


Entered at Thu Mar 12 16:38:28 CET 2015 from (79.187.165.193)

Posted by:

Karol

Location: Poland
Web: My link

Subject: Bob Dylan

I love "The Band" with "Bob Dylan" it's so amazing. I release the stress listening to It.


Entered at Thu Mar 12 15:34:39 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Wheat/chaff

For the record: I have looked at Dylan's paintings many times. My first impression was to dismiss them (though I am by no means an expert in this area of creativity). Its like most of us. You look at a piece of art and form an immediate impression. I have looked again at the books over the years and I have changed my opinion

. When I reflect on my overall impressions of music over my past 50 years, the same can be said. I never liked what is called country music (Hank Williams etc) in the early years but now I have a great appreciation for it. Though some say we get more rigid as we get older, I think I'm becoming more malleable. Its not just weak-mindedness. I'd like to think that I'm a discerning receiver of input and can still separate wheat from chaff. That's the creative process on the receiver end. How lucky we are to be able to do that!


Entered at Thu Mar 12 15:24:25 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Primates

Thank you, Van, for confirming what I have known and said for eons. With some exceptions, there are way too many 'lazy' journalists and critics. The ease with which the writer regurgitates what has been said before by others to solidify an impression or idea reminds us of where the term 'aping' originates.


Entered at Thu Mar 12 15:11:48 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Error - a classic

Whoops: Should have been "The understated band is superb in its accompaniment". That happened even though I read this a few times before submission. You can't be too careful.


Entered at Thu Mar 12 15:08:57 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: "Shadows In The Night" again

"Shadows In The Night" - Bob Dylan: The album's main virtue is the sadness and forlorn feeling delivered by Dylan as he sings these songs. I listened to each song side by side with Sinatra. Sinatra sings with confidence and is pleasant as always. Dylan sings these songs with a subtle devastation and loneliness that rings true. His interpretations sound like he is wearing them like a glove. He phrases the words as if they reflect his current state. The vocals are gruff but accurate and he hits the notes, conforming to his emotional state as he sings. The understated band is superb in their accompaniment.

Dylan is a great interpreter of songs and along with his superb penned songs, his interpretations are equally highly regarded by this listener. One can go back to 1962 for interpretations of classics to see how solid his covers can be. Yes, some may argue with some of 1969-1970 covers but others are excellent on reflection. (some here have used the word 'dire' for some of his Self Portrait material and I won't rehash that other than to mention it) And songs like "Let It Be Me" and his in concert covers of Warren Zevon songs are very good. There are many other examples. Dylan here reminds us that he is not unifocal and that there is a profound respect and sensitivity for what came before.

It is too facile to say that artists take an easy road when they cover other songs. I think Rod Stewart did this well. There are many others. Diana Krall's interpretations are very good and 'Wallflower' (the album and song itself) is a recent example. Overall, I welcome the approach of any performer going out of his/her boundaries and creating in different ways. Yes, it earns $$$ but it also gives the audience something different. The critic/reviewer/detractors always go back to Hwy61R and BoB and BOTT to show how much they had loved Dylan and why they don't like this album. They want to show that they are not Dylan-haters. While entitled to their opinions, I think they just want the Dylan they want and not some other Dylan. Kind of like those who go to hear the greatest hits performed exactly as they where on record and then hear another arrangement of a song and don't recognize it or hear new songs and want old songs.

Because of the emotional impact, the spot-on vocals, and the excellent backing by his band, I reiterate that 'Shadows In The Night" is a very good album and stands tall among Dylan's recorded output.


Entered at Thu Mar 12 14:56:37 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: I guess I could spin this as an outcome of the RCO discussion, insofar as it's an example of me digging back into an album that I'd once liked but then gone off of - Sgt Peppers. I no longer have the vinyl to compare with, but I'd swear there are a couple of new bits on the CD, most importantly a swirling magical mystery outro to Mr Kite that neatly bridges what had been an awkward transition to the magical mystery into to "Within You and Without You". Because I'm a Band-guy to the core, I heard "She's Leaving Home" as the album's "Tears Of Rage" (the daughter's rebellion), "Help From My Friends" as "The Weight" (reliance on friends like the narrator, who I'll call Tiny Montgomery), "Lovely Rita" as the object of "Chest Fever", etc.


Entered at Thu Mar 12 14:42:55 CET 2015 from (74.203.77.122)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC
Web: My link

Peter, here's some entertainment while you're waiting. :)


Entered at Thu Mar 12 11:52:44 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Funny how conversation stalls suddenly. Maybe we need to say something controversial about the RCO All Stars again!


Entered at Thu Mar 12 04:58:15 CET 2015 from (172.3.237.199)

Posted by:

Joe Medwick

Location: a town in North Californio
Web: My link

Subject: Southern California Band fans come on out!

for any Band fans in the Southern California area, hope you can come out and catch the show Joe Medwick's Funky Folks March 22 6-9 TAVERN 101 in Agoura Hills CA, the old Agoura Valley Inn, site of so many Joe, Albert Lee, Dave Edmunds, Paul Burlison rave-ups...I hear Garth popped in once or twice back in the day eh...rave on Levon...thanks Joe!!


Entered at Wed Mar 11 19:14:57 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Rendezvous

Just sent that count as a letter to Mojo.

On three star albums, the consensus drops Sandy Denny's "Rendezvous" from her normal 4 star to a 3, objecting to the "pop" treatment. I bought the de luxe CD version in a record store closing down sale, and I've been playing it a lot. Absolutely fantastic, a PV "4.5" stars. The reviews objected to her covers of Candle in the Wind and Silver Threads & Golden Needles.

Ignore that and listen to Take Me Away and I'm A Dreamer (both of which P.P. Arnold did on the Sandy Denny Tribute tour) and No More Sad Refrains, which Joan As Policewoman did solo to close the tribute. Why have they never released that show on DVD or CD? (My 2012 review linked)

And one of the bonus tracks on Rendezvous is a cover of Easy to Slip. Richard Thompson on guitar throughout. Apparently the band and orchestra played together in the studio.


Entered at Wed Mar 11 19:12:47 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Uh-oh, look out--a nice mention of Jon Taplin in one of those Scheele vids.


Entered at Wed Mar 11 18:16:41 CET 2015 from (67.87.217.125)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Kevin, Julie sends you her regards.


Entered at Wed Mar 11 17:55:44 CET 2015 from (108.41.170.168)

Posted by:

Joan

Subject: Landy Book

Thanks JT. I was wondering about just this morning. I'm looking forward to it.


Entered at Wed Mar 11 16:28:20 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Elliot Landy book of Band photographs

Thanks for those links, Angelina. I have news that the Landy book (Kickstarter project) is well on its way. Delayed by improvement tweaks (Mr. Landy is a perfectionist and with what he has, I applaud that) and business issues (well on their way to completion from what I understand), there is a projection that we might finally see this book in a few months. Those who have supported its development are eager to see the final result of this painstaking work by Mr. Landy.


Entered at Wed Mar 11 15:47:11 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

The Unexpected Joys of Lou Reed’s Art Photography


Entered at Wed Mar 11 15:32:59 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

The Making Of Bob Dylan’s LO & Behold: The Basement Tapes Complete Companion Book video and a closer look at the photos.


Entered at Wed Mar 11 15:26:48 CET 2015 from (50.100.252.138)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

Huuuge hugs to all of you who said hello and sent out positive vibes here or via of email. :-D

2014 Bob Dylan & The Band's 'Basement Tapes' Photo Session - John Scheele (Pt. 1-4)


Entered at Wed Mar 11 08:40:51 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Ah, another ratings issue. This issue of Mojo has a covermount disc with cover versions of every track on Physical Graffiti, plus a double page advert announcing a limited edition vinyl edition to special order with just 5000 copies on 2 LPs - no price mentioned. It might therefore influence those 5 stars.


Entered at Wed Mar 11 08:33:53 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Ratings

Read the Help and Blood on the Tracks reviews. Great site. On Help, yes, it’s a great album … yet also a “weaker” one in Beatle terms! Their young(?) reviewer who had never heard it disliked Yesterday, but that’s over-familiarity with decades of awful cover versions, not intrinsic quality for the most-covered song of its era.

On these star ratings, I just looked at Mojo, April issue. Reviews section.

5 stars – 1 (Lightning Bolt), 4 stars – 48, 3 stars- 30, 2 stars – 1.

REISSUE section: 5 stars – 2 (Physical Graffiti by Led Zep, Kinks Anthology box set), 4 stars – 28, 3 stars – 18.

So the vast majority of albums reviewed are four star. Really? I have no idea what Lighning Bolt is (Underground section). The Kinks Anthology is right as a lovingly remastered and assembled package, and the “5” does not mean that Milk Cow Blues is “as good as” Waterloo Sunset. Though of course, you may prefer its youthful enthusiasm to the RCO All Stars version. (JOKE! not an attempt to revive the argument!) It’s a rating for assembling, curating and packaging the work of an important band.

Physical Graffiti, as remastered and repackaged, will be getting marks for the repackaging (they say Jimmy Page was there for the entire remastering process). It’s also a historical consensus grade on a reissue. Personally, I’d give it three for content, but I’m not a Led Zep fan, and also haven’t heard what they’ve done to it in the remastering, but have read it’s an amazing job.


Entered at Wed Mar 11 06:30:54 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.90)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

So what i meant to write was, The Lovely Misfits are good to look at............(and everything else i wrote)..... with Ro leading the way, everything fits.


Entered at Wed Mar 11 04:53:41 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.90)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I'm just back from catching most of Ro Fino's & her Lovely Misfits set at Rockwood Music Hall tonight. B train disturbances made me late, so i walked in on what was probably the 3rd , maybe the 4th song.

Everything i wrote in my review of her Feb 20th Bitter End show still holds true. This girl is the real thing. These new songs are wonderful, great melodic songs, the melodies, grooves and feel are always appropriate to the lyrics.

The Lovely Misfits are good to look at. I'm enjoying watching the transformation of an out of town, young, classically trained, hair back in a bun female string player into a hair flowing and flying, velvet draped bohemian rock & roller. The guys are visual o[pposites of each other. Both well dressed, the pianist looks like he could be an ad exec on Madison Avenue or a resident doctor, the drummer could pass for a sculptor, the manager of a hip restaurant, a salesman in a medicinal marijuana operation, or a drummer. They are all fine musicians, have made great parts appropriate to the songs, and with Ro leading the way, they make a killer band

Ro, like i wrote re the 20th show, Ro got it all. She's the real thing, has the musicality, the songwriting and playing chops, the looks and stage presence, and is doing it to it.

Next stop, Ro is playing SXSW in Austin, on March 20th, with a Texas back up band.


Entered at Wed Mar 11 00:48:16 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Web: My link

Subject: The Five Star thing revisited

A great site with a terrifically innovative angle on reviewing albums.

In this one it's 'Help' by the fabs.

All on here will I'm sure love the slant. Especially Kev and PV. Promise.

:-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 10 23:13:55 CET 2015 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Ignorance (sometimes bliss)

This is someone else speaking in the 'voice' of JT. (The question: I don't know the answer and I am asking in ignorance: Can someone (who sent us an excellent link) simulate an identity to pretend they are someone they are not (name, IP address etc.?)


Entered at Tue Mar 10 22:32:07 CET 2015 from (76.71.4.29)

Posted by:

Kevin J

.....ah, in other news, BEG is back.......we think !


Entered at Tue Mar 10 14:43:21 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Bill M, Sadavid : on the subject, I would highly recommend Charles Foran's biography of Mordecai Richler. L.Cohen gets a couple of interesting mentions.


Entered at Tue Mar 10 14:09:23 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

sadavid: Thanks for the link to that fine "New Yorker" article on Leonard Cohen's Montreal. Have you read Mordecai Richler's magnfificent "Solomon Gursky Was Here", a mixture of First Nations mythology, and human ingenuity, frailty and crudeness among Montreal's Jewish and Scottish elite? Cohen's not there that I can tell, but two significant characters mentioned in the article - the poet AM Klein and the bootlegger-cum-distillery magnate Samuel Bronfman - certainly are (though in disguise).


Entered at Tue Mar 10 08:32:54 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The Weight with The Staples in part of the set. So we have Mavis Staples and Emmylou Harris … it points forward to the Native Americans era with The Coolidges and Ulali (though they were used differently.) If you've been working with three or four male voices for years, a natural thought would be to try female voice in the mix. Robbie had worked with Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon, Libby Titus.

It points to the statement that they would carry on as a studio group. Everyone contributed, though Levon and Rick were both busy elsewhere with solo work, and as lead vocalists naturally enjoying that. Richard probably didn't have the energy or confidence to front a similar project as lead vocalist at that point.

Credits differ from TLW and AMH, don't they? According to both AMH and TLW, Robbie played piano on Out of The Blue, but TLW adds Richard on "keyboards."


Entered at Tue Mar 10 05:19:08 CET 2015 from (219.89.221.66)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: TLW Suite

I think those 4 songs (plus the theme tune) are amazing. Just a shame they didn't make a full album out of it - or follow it up. Maybe there is a forgotten 79 record that Robbie's sitting on?


Entered at Tue Mar 10 01:35:49 CET 2015 from (24.222.133.194)

Posted by:

joe j

"For a lad from Yorkshire like meself, it were truly out of this world.” Mick Ronson on Rolling Thunder


Entered at Tue Mar 10 00:37:26 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Certainly part of The Well's genius is that you feel like you're falling into it and being pulled up out of it. It certainly sounds as though RR and Garth spent a lot of time on it. AMH states that Evangeline was filmed on April 29, 1977 with more recording done at Shangri-La. Out of The Blue was recorded at Shangri-La in May of 77 with additional recording at the Village Recorders. TLW CD Box states that Richard played keyboards on OoTB, but AMH says he didn't play on it at all.


Entered at Tue Mar 10 00:09:45 CET 2015 from (74.75.167.189)

Posted by:

Far East Man

Location: Rockport, ME

Subject: The Last Waltz

Thanks Pat. I enjoy the songs in the LW Suite. They are all highlights in they are worlds apart yet high quality work. I love the way "The Well" has a roller coaster sort of feel. I'd love to know the history of the recording. "Islands" is interesting to me, as much of it is good with a few clunkers. The Well is post Islands, maybe even recorded after the LW. Just curious - if anybody has any info. Thanks


Entered at Mon Mar 9 20:31:58 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.245)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: Leonard Cohen's Montreal

_The New Yorker_; Bernard Avishai.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 19:35:07 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Well, to broaden the discussion, Mrs V informs me that the girls school in the 1960s had a similar ritual where they had to line up clad only in navy-blue school regulation knickers. In the girls case, the doctor merely pulled the elastic back and looked. Nobody had any idea of the purpose of this, which lends weight to my theory that the aim was humiliation. As so much was in 1960s grammar schools.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 19:31:35 CET 2015 from (108.41.170.168)

Posted by:

Joan

Angie it's great to see you back. I get lonely ladies room here. Speaking about school exams. When I was a freshman we had to take a phys ed course. In one part of my phys ed course they had all the girls line up and take off their gym shorts and took pictures of us profile in our underpants and bra. Nobody ever explained to us what it was for. We thought it was perhaps to check posture. A number of years later they exposed a long time government boondoggle by some scientists and educators using these pictures. I'm not particularly shy but it was embarrassing. At least they could've told us what it was for.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 19:25:15 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

You know, those four new studio songs on TLW are really good. Garth is extraordinary throughout--the orchestra/horn bits on The Well are mind-blowing. Out of The Blue is beautiful, and the Richard/RR duet on The Last Waltz Refrain is loverly. Evangeline is magnificent.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 19:10:41 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: Angie

Hi Angie,

Missed ya….. ……a big hug ….. welcome home little warrior….

Got to take the dog to my blind friend William in the valley below now ……. gonna run and holler from a distance, ….. Angie’s back! ….. and he will smile and give me a kiss and softly add; and all is good now ….


Entered at Mon Mar 9 19:10:02 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bill M, I suppose we could find out if all the musicians in BS&T were equal partners and what management was taking off the top, etc., but I'm busy listening to digital copies of old albums I don't like.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 19:09:04 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Kevin J., What was I saying the other day about cringe-worthy posts? I don't even have to wait until tomorrow to figure out if the earlier ones qualify. Although I did try to steer it back into music with the (purely fictional) Sid Vicious anecdote.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 18:55:01 CET 2015 from (67.84.76.75)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Just discussing.

Pete, to tie in to your earlier thoughts, something thing i wrote in response,that i know you understood ( i know you understood all of it for that matter), might not be so readily understood by all, cause we were discussing it as applied to past projects. But, i thought of a good way to illustrate it. Here's what i wrote:
"Now separatedly, if you are discussing different processes involved in presenting one recording session, the sounds of the presentation will differ. "

I recorded my JJ project to tape, in St Louis. I mixed it at Sear Sound, in NYC. We ran the final mixes to tape, and also to their digital. (Though Walter did not advertise it, he had pro tools there too. He hated it.) So, i had, still have, the masters on tape. And also discs of the analogue master mixes, and discs of protools sourced master mixes. The difference in the sound is enormous. Like the difference between arctic (or frost) white and a chiffon white, floral white, or maybe even linen. It's indisputable.

Ten years later, following the same steps, the difference would be less enormous, but still very very palpable.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 18:49:38 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Peter, I think you hit it on the nose (or somewhere) ... : )


Entered at Mon Mar 9 18:46:00 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

In this week's edition, Marketting Week magazine profiles the 3 most female un-friendly marketting campaigns/product launches of 2015: 1.) The Apple watch, 2.) The GB's "turn & cough" contest, 3.) Rush's new LP.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 18:27:45 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The cough and RCO v NLSC- yes they were checking to see that both sides were of equal quality. In retrospect, it may have been more about considered humiliation - we have the power to make you queue up and then jiggle your balls about. Literally, "we have your balls on a plate."


Entered at Mon Mar 9 18:19:28 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Turn your head and cough....

.......any one for more RCO v NLSC - and quick!


Entered at Mon Mar 9 18:17:08 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I hadn't thought about replicating v burning discs. It's certainly noticeable with DVDs, though that's easy to detect with pictures on a big screen. It's also meant to be that replicated discs last longer, such as "2 x forever" rather than "forever." I know people say burned archive data CDRs should be replaced after a couple of years (but I've just used a 12 year old one today).


Entered at Mon Mar 9 18:11:55 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: School medicals

I thought at eleven it was to see if your balls had dropped. But why did they keep on looking? The school rumour by sixteen was that they were looking for pustulating sores from venereal disease which you could catch from a toilet seat or by looking at “Health & Efficiency” magazine, the journal of a Naturists association. I do seem to recall turning your head to one side while you coughed. I assumed that was so you couldn’t see the female nurse laughing in derision nor the gym teacher taking surreptitious photos for his own use.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 17:56:50 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Pat B: BS&T had twice the number of guys, so I guess the pay-scale was more equitable than the raw numbers would suggest.

Todd: Good to know. I would have dismissed it as another of those puzzling adult obsessions that make childhood less perfect than it would otherwise have been - insistence on schooling being the most annoying, followed by having to go to bed before the end of the hockey game. (Those I DO recall.)


Entered at Mon Mar 9 17:50:04 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Doctor's Orders

Just took a quick look at the Sex Pistols album. I don't think it's a coincidence that there's a pink banner splashed across the front of the album cover......


Entered at Mon Mar 9 17:40:55 CET 2015 from (67.84.76.75)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, hopefully without having another discussion, when i've attempted to discuss - digital recording- it's the recording process i'm discussing.

Now separatedly, if you are discussing different processes involved in presenting one recording session, the sounds of the presentation will differ. and , when you burn them on to disc, they'll retain a equivalent difference. (Of course, different mixes will sound different in any form).

I will say i can generally hear the difference between things burned to disc and their original form, even if it was a master disc. And right away. That is a separate issue. Proper replicating of discs, will always sound better than burning a disc.

The other digital discussion i;ve attempted to have is separate, and that is the effect that digital itself has had. Digital recording, and digital distribution ( which covers a whole smorgasboard)


Entered at Mon Mar 9 17:37:19 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Odds and Sods

I think Lou said the Beatles or their songs weren't any good, and may have said something about Jefferson Airplane as well. No big deal, probably just his mood that day.

Bob F, Thanks for the Lou Reed article. Sounds like the author didn't have any pleasant encounters with Mr. Reed. I suppose my friend's encounter was largely postive because he was helping Lou in a professional capacity, and didn't bring any albums to sign.

A little known fact is that Sid Vicious, also possessing a "V" name, had been saddled with the shame of the pink card in his school days as well. It's been rumored that he even picked up the name for one of the most infamous albums in punk rock history while being publicly taunted in the doctor's line-up. Apparently when it's was poor Sid's turn to do battle with the spatula, one of the other lads called out "Never Mind The Bollocks, he's got a pink card." And the rest is history.

Lisa, I think they are checking for hernia, and possibly a quick screen for testicular cancer. But as a youth, I don't think that I knew the reason. Just figured they were auditioning sopranos for the boys choir (kidding).


Entered at Mon Mar 9 17:31:29 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.179)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Al and The Band

Another connection is Al Kooper reviewed Big Pink in Rolling Stone, 1968.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 17:21:09 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: The dreaded exam

Wow, I can't believe you guys were subjected to this! Times sure have changed - can you imagine what would happen now if schools still did this?

Not being knowledgeable in this area, I've always wondered what exactly is this supposed to show, anyway? If it's not too personal, that is ...


Entered at Mon Mar 9 17:15:46 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

It is quite startling how different stuff sounds in different media. I tried it with Betty Wright's 1970s hit, Shoo-Rah-Rah. I found an RCA 45, and those very thin 70s RCA 45s were not the best you could get. But it sounded terrific. So I compared the LP and the CD, and the 45 knocks them both over. As does the Atlantic 45 of Country Girl-City Man by Billy Vera and Judy Clay. This has NOTHING to do with analogue v digital, as the difference is the same when all versions are copied onto a CDR, and even just as noticeable in iTunes. The crucial point, which is often overlooked, is the compression on the 45 is completely different, and sometimes the mix is too. With a lot of classic soul stuff, I find the 45 sounds livelier and more vigorous than the CD, with the LP the worst of the three.

That's the joy of the Motown and Stax Complete Singles Box Sets - they're CDs, but use the mono 45 mix. ACE compilations are also faithful to the single mix. On which there are two fantastic recent releases. "Hung On You" is Volume 3 of the Goffin / King Songbook series, and "Modernists" on the Kent sub-label was compiled by the Mod Jazz compilers and is subtitled "Rhythm & Soul of Distinction". I didn't know most of it, but it's great floor filler material.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 16:50:25 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

That reason being payment to appear in the movie had not been negotiated.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 16:48:49 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bill M, another link is both groups played Woodstock. Of course, BS&T were a much larger commercial force at the time and commanded twice the Band's pay--$15,000 to $7500. Neither group ended up in the movie for much the same reason.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 16:38:57 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

A decent link between BS&T and our guys is that both groups spent time backing David Clayton Thomas.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 16:23:12 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.179)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Lou, Dylan, Bruce

Todd, this is a fun read on a fan meeting Lou.

Peter, it was about an interview. I was just kidding.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 16:22:17 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

It's nice to see Blood, Sweat and Tears getting some attention here. I enjoy the self titled second album, and their hits, but it's their first album, 'Child is father to the man', that really stands out as a classic and Al Kooper's finest moment. John Simon produced this album, so, that's an obvious Band connection. I would also recommend Kooper's previous group 'The Blues Project'. They made a few great albums in the mid 60's and seem to have fallen beneath the radar.

Interesting comments about vinyl yesterday. Peter, but I switched to CD many years ago and haven't looked back. I listened to both RCO and NLSC on CD over the past few days and my opinion hasn't changed. I still prefer RCO. It would be nice if people would refrain from criticizing an album that they haven't listened to in over 30 years.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 16:17:06 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Name starts with A! Luxury, Todd. At least you got the clean hand.

I would have thought a pencil somewhat unhygienic and dangerous at the sharp end. I thought they used a wooden spatula thing. I know they were kept for recycling and later sold in bulk to coffee shops as stirrers.

I’m trying to remember the Lou Reed contretemps – I have nearly every album. I think I said I hadn’t played a couple of them very often.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 15:54:34 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

I do recall a bunch of shots in the arm from visiting public health nurses, and also visits from the head-lice inspectors, but nothing more personal that that. But maybe it's just that I've buried the memories - very, very deep.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 15:27:55 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: The Dreaded Exam

Wooden stick? Axe handle? Pencil? Luxury!

Over on this side of the pond, the Doctor just used his hand for the old, "turn your head and cough" routine.
Being that my last name starts with an "A", I usually got to go first.
I assumed the hand was standard protocol, but perhaps we just had a very friendly doctor.
At least Al had a nurse to handle the business!

I had forgotten about the Lou Reed kerfuffle. Not only was Lou Reed demonized, but also the mighty Syracuse University in Upstate NY, was taken down a notch. My Grandmother was a student there in 1936. No need to defend Lou though. Just Lou being Lou, and he probably didn't care what the reaction would be.

Some years ago now, a friend of mine from NYC who works in the photo industry, went to Lou's to help set up some photo printing equipment. I guess photography was one of Lou's interests. My friend had been a fan of VU for many years and said it was kind of strange being in the same place as Lou discussing ink and paper profiles. He would have probably rather asked him about music stuff, but he was there to do a job, not be a fan. He did say that Lou was very pleasant, and quite knowledgeable about photography.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 15:01:04 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Classic Albums The Band

Rick, see notes (linked) on Classic Albums: "The Band." It's still on sale on DVD at amazon.com and amazon.co.uk … $8.58, six copies in stock.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 14:41:55 CET 2015 from (74.43.18.162)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: pa

Subject: carmen

I live in the Philadelphia area - so with lots of Italian heritage around here- Carmen as a man name is not that unusual. Funny when I travel to the west or south where Spanish heritage is more prominent, people look at me a little funny or when I use a credit card - I am almost always asked for ID.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 14:30:47 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Lisa: Nice to see you're still around. That same funny story can be found in the WWII escape book, "The Wooden Horse", except that it's been bowdlerised to 'damn all', there's a German prison guard instead of a Hungarian director and a couple of captured British officers rather than Niven and Flynn. The book in general's said to be a true story, but I now suspect that the 'damn all' bit was a standard wartime joke that neither author Eric Williams nor David Niven wanted to see go to waste.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 14:20:27 CET 2015 from (108.69.237.244)

Posted by:

Rick Klepal

Location: Tampa, FL

Subject: Question

Hey guys...Life Long Fan...First became attached to "The Brown" album in 1974/5 in high school. A couple years ago I caught a video on some cable channel about the making of the "Brown" The Band album. I have been looking for it, want to own a copy but can't find it anywhere. Can you help? btw...one of the best records ever made. Best, Rick rickklepal@gmail.com 813-393-0633


Entered at Mon Mar 9 14:04:14 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: ...and cough

I'm guessing it was universal P.

Of course round our way the nurse had to use a pick axe handle.

:-0)

Second thoughts, maybe it was a pencil!!

Did you used to have the nit nurse too and they'd put that blue or yellow iodine stuff on you? Can't remember what it was for now.

:-0)


Entered at Mon Mar 9 13:44:32 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I just ordered B,S & T II from amazon. It says it was remastered in 2000 and is much better than earlier CD releases - I remember hearing the CD played as an example of a dreadful CD transfer back in the 80s, and so stayed with my LP. It's a long time since I've played it through. Looking forward to it.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 13:42:37 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Lisa - ha ha

Hey Lisa - reading Jeff's post lower down it looks like the GB has its own Errol Flynn - complete with harem and alive and well and living in Brooklyn!!

:-0)


Entered at Mon Mar 9 13:35:14 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.183)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: BS & T

I love the first two BS&T records with Child Is A Father To The Man being just about perfect. The 2nd one has a lot of great songs. I remember reading that it was Al Kooper who suggested they do 'So Very Happy' before he was kicked out. I've always really liked Steve Katz 'Sometimes in Winter'.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 13:27:08 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: I'm a Man

When we were at primary school, every child had a school medical record card, which recorded checks by the dental nurse (and nit nurse) and stuff every year. This was the early days of the National Health Service, of which Britain was justly proud. They were colour coded, blue cards for boys, pink cards for girls. I am alphabetically challenged as my surname begins with V, the school ran out of blue cards around the letter "T" and me, Webb, Wilson and Young were issued with pink cards with GIRL crossed out and BOY written on. It was mildly embarrassing but there were four of us and we all lined up alphabetically, so it wasn't a disaster. We were also only aged 5 to 11 at that school and didn't know any homophobic comments.

When we moved to secondary school at 11, the cards moved with us. But I was the only one of the four, being a clever little sod, who went to grammar school. So at grammar school there were only two kids in the year of 180 kids with pink cards - one, a boy called White, had suffered the same misfortune at a different primary school. This was deeply embarrassing and the source of much coarse humour, especially as the secondary school medical once a year involved lining up in your underpants, being weighed, then having a doctor apply a wooden stick to the base of your testicles and asking you to cough. I have no idea whether this was a universal, or for the personal gratification of the gym teacher who always stood and watched at close quarters. Anyway, I'd have to stand there holding the pink card of shame while lads called out "You won't need to check this one, sir" and other remarks of a similar nature. I stayed at that school till 18, but White left at 16 to go to the local college, and I believe he simply wanted to escape that pink card. Last time I saw him, in a pub in our early 20s, he was carrying a Cliff Richard LP and a Liza Minelli LP. That's the sort of effect it can have on you.

I am amazed I ended up normal.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 13:21:15 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Hi Angie!

:-0)


Entered at Mon Mar 9 13:19:29 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Carmen - ha ha - nice one mate

Got to say I made the same mistake as JT some years back Carmen but then I realised my mistake. And I certainly didn't want Instant Carmen to come and get me

:-0)


Entered at Mon Mar 9 12:55:30 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.184)

Posted by:

Bob F

BEG, welcome back. I don't want to be a tattle tale but while you were gone some serious swipes were taken at Lou Reed. I believe the lynch mob was headed by Mr. Peter V. I tried to stick up for my fellow New Yorker but I was completely shot down.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 12:14:28 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA
Web: My link

Subject: Gender

Yes - I was born and I am still a Man.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 10:33:10 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

So good to see BEG back.

Thanks for that one, Lisa. We used to work with an Italian guy who in twenty years in England never managed to grasp "fuck all" and always said "fuck nothing" too.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 07:00:49 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: F**k story

Okay, I wasn't going to post this as it's mainly the purview of the guys here, but here goes.

This story comes from David Niven's wonderful memoir of the golden days of Hollywood titled "Bring On The Empty Horses", and is actually the story of the title.

David Niven and Errol Flynn were starring in "The Charge of the Light Brigade", directed by Hungarian director Michael Curtiz. His fractured English was always a source of mirth to these guys, and when the time came to film a scene during the charge with riderless horses galloping past, he shouted out, "Okay, bring on the empty horses!" which totally cracked them up. Completely exasperated, he shouted, "You lousy bums, you and your stinking language! You think I know fuck nothing! Well, let me tell you, I know FUCK ALL!"

beg, I'm so glad you're back again - what have you been doing?


Entered at Mon Mar 9 04:21:35 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: What's in a name..

Kevin: Shows you what I know. One shouldn't assume anything. My apologies for the mistake. Still, we may be trending (a word I learned lately from red carpet pre-shows).


Entered at Mon Mar 9 04:15:28 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

"Well we drank champagne and danced all night/Under electric candlelight"

Well JT, the GB can be a confusing place.......I believe Carmen is a man as is Kerrin who I had always thought was female.......Carmen is a regular thankfully.....wish Kerrin was still around.

Jeff: You devil you......while we were all dancing and acting stupid, you got the numbers............very happy to hear Julie is doing well. I miss her and please say hello. Hope that she enjoyed the Led Zep Kennedy Honours Link.

brown eyed girl: It has been a shitty week and I'm about to fly away and join a circus..........seeing you back, brings some happiness.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 04:15:24 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Another Perspective on Analogue & Digital

Just saw the beginning of the flick This Is 40. For the first time. After terrific sex on her 40th birthday, Paul Rudd's character tells his wife that he used viagara. She gets upset, and to explain why he did it, the man says:
"My hard-ons are still in analog. This shit's digital."
OF course, the character played a former Sony exec.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 04:10:45 CET 2015 from (74.75.167.189)

Posted by:

Far East Man

Location: Rockport, ME

Subject: Whispering Pines

Just heard a version of this with Boz Scaggs & Lucinda Williams. Then went back to the original, what a spectacular song. Love the trade off between Richard & Levon. Once in awhile I get a thirst for something new from Richard, something I haven't heard. Lately I've been digging "The Well", not a favorite but an interesting piece of work. Not a lot of information on the song - maybe Robbie will shed some light on it when his book comes out. Peace to all....


Entered at Mon Mar 9 03:32:58 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

JQ, a weird element of the BS&T/Chicago things is that Chicagoan James William Guercio (also a Civil War collector) produced the 2nd BS&T album just before he produced the first CTA/Chicago album. He developed his jazz/pop horn sound working on all those great Buckinghams singles.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 03:05:30 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Restoring the balance

OK: BEG, LISA, JOAN, CARMEN. Who did I forget? Maybe those still communicating with Jeff? Starting to restore the balance. A healthier future maybe?


Entered at Mon Mar 9 02:51:02 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.154)

Posted by:

Bill M

BEG: Makes my day too - welcome back.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 01:41:02 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Hey Rosetta

Hey Rosetta was great live and stole the show. We went to the show to see Stars. (great on record and live). I like the albums (got them after the show) but the live show really showed what this band really can do. Most important, it reminded us again of how many great bands and performers there are who are unknown. Gotta keep ears and eyes open and listening. That's part of what I get from this GB.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 01:33:31 CET 2015 from (96.30.173.135)

Posted by:

joe j

Subject: Hey Rosetta

I believe it was JT that saw their live show recently. Better live than on record IMHO. Link is to a great video shot on an island not far from mine.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 01:04:58 CET 2015 from (96.30.173.135)

Posted by:

joe j

Make's my day to 'see' you BEG.


Entered at Mon Mar 9 00:38:33 CET 2015 from (65.93.116.167)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Angie, is that (gasp!) really you?


Entered at Sun Mar 8 23:16:51 CET 2015 from (174.92.5.136)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

ʙLᴀᴢɪNɢ ᴀᴡᴀʏ

1990 | Marianne Faithfull
Filmed at St. Anne's Cathedral in Brooklyn, New York City
Produced by Amy Raskin and John Diaz
Directed by Larry Jordan

Watch entire Concert 1:30:11 or just check out at 1:02:34

ᴍᴜsɪᴄɪᴀns

Dougie Bowne - drums

GARTH HUDSON - accordion/keyboards

Dr. John - piano/rhythm guitar

Barry Reynolds - guitar/background vocals

Marc Ribot - guitar

Fernando Saunders - bass/background vocals

LEW SOLOFF - trumpet/flugel horn

"If you cannot watch it due to country restrictions please message me! (Faithfull Forever). For the first time and in full length on the internet Marianne Faithfull's "lost" concert film from 1990. It was originally released on video cassette, but has been long out of print and sought after by fans. The record company lost the original video masters which is why a commercial re-release is highly unlikely, so I decided to share it on the occasion of Marianne's 50th anniversary as a recording artist this year (and with her personal permission). Enjoy! xo Maggie / Faithfull Forever | mariannefaithfull.fm

ps. Big thank you to Eric (YT: EricTerino) for getting the film to me on DVD. I do own the actual tape, but had no way to transfer it.

Please note that the tracklist is vastly different to the album release. The song "Blazing Away" was actually not performed/recorded live, but in the studio and as such isn't on film. "When I Find My Life" (Reynolds/Faithfull) and "Prisons Du Roy" (Jordan/Rivgauche) have never been released as studio recordings."


Entered at Sun Mar 8 23:10:52 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: BS&T 2

I was a major fan of BST's second album and played it nonstop. Yes, Chicago Transit Authority and Chicago II were being played at the same time.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 22:56:59 CET 2015 from (63.142.158.9)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: B, S & Tears #2

Hi Pat B - When we were talking about perfect albums last week this one came to me as a contender too. In 1969, as I recall, this album was considered pretty AM pop-like; but it also had its hip fans. Weren't they were sort of in competition with Chicago then? I think someone else here submitted the Al Kooper original B, S & T for consideration also.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 22:24:55 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

At 2:00, Mr. Soloff swings at Woodstock.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 20:56:09 CET 2015 from (96.30.173.135)

Posted by:

joe j

Web: My link

Subject: Sinatra

Want to hear Sinatra's originals from 'Shadows'? "Stay With Me " is riveting.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 20:42:28 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: An effing joke

Been away and catching up. Another old joke I quite like:

LAWYER to WITNESS: Do you have anything to add?

WITNESS: Fuck all!

JUDGE to LAWYER: I'm sorry, I didn't catch that. What did the witness say?

LAWYER: He said "Fuck all" m'lord.

JUDGE: Funny - I could have sworn I saw his lips move.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 20:14:42 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

John, yep, sometimes it takes a few readings to - maybe understand - something some one has written. I guess it's part of the internet, and in real life too, sometimes communication can be tricky.

I thnk & hope you now realize I was simply answering & attempting to make amusing social commentary relevant to a prior also possibly humorous comment i made. And other events here.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 19:55:21 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Jeff A

Just re-read your post. Didn't think you were taking a shot at me. Sorry for the confusion.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 19:53:00 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Jeff A

Sorry Jeff. Are you calling me a ludite for not being on Facebook; or are you pissed that is the only way these days people are trying to communicate? Little confused.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 19:51:29 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

In nosing around the various Lew Soloff tributes--many and deserving-his solo on Spinning Wheel alone is quite a moment--I noticed an announcement a few days ago that legendary producer Orrin Keepnews has also died. He was an early proponent of Monk and Bill Evans, he owned the Riverside and Milestone labels, and they still have a Keepnews Collection in print, a series of monumental jazz albums that he produced. With Soloff's connections to Gil Evans, Lew might have been called upon to play on any Band-Evans collaboration.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 17:51:09 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

John, his daughter posted her account on FB. Which is how the world, and the music world, communicates.
Piss on it.
Send me back to the time of smoke signals, the 70s, even the 80s or most of the 90s, when there were no FBs or GBs. Our choices of interaction,with whom we interacted, were far more direct, and personal. And our interactions were more personal.
Though by now we all think we know each other, and ( within the confines of our respective actual situational, personality & life reading abilities) in some way we do, in past times, one might actually get acquainted personally before faced with the decision of whether or not you would piss on someone if they were on fire. Or, you would just go ahead on piss on most anyone who was on fire, cause you had no reason not to. Today, the internet might actually fuck up a lot of heroic life saving episodes.
See what I mean?
Pre Internet Life was more fucking better.



Entered at Sun Mar 8 16:59:07 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Peter, I am stunned that the quality of the analog process is so poor. Stunned.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 16:46:25 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Lew Soloff again

There is an interview at YouTube regarding Lew Soloff (2 hours) wherein he describes his early life in NYC, his family influences, his jazz influences and so forth. Excellent! A mensch. We played him this AM in his honour.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 16:03:33 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Lew Soloff

John D: Go to trumpetherald.com website and you will see the account of Lew Soloff to which Jeff A refers. Very sad. A great loss to music.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 14:47:46 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: last remark: the flying one

I want to thank Al Edge for the flying fuck, beautiful …. that’s poetry…..

One day some Joe Pesci will use it (link), or maybe you’ll hear it in your car, on the radio, in a song and you will smile knowing where it started from.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 14:14:31 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: A Selma song

People Get Ready by The Impressions (link).


Entered at Sun Mar 8 13:07:57 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Lou Soloff

Jeff A. With the time change it's 7 am eastern time, Sunday morning. I just read your story. How sad. However I have Googled his name everywhere; on the net and can't find anything about him passing. Is this something you heard on radio; or TV? Thanks.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 12:26:50 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

One of the problems of cutting vinyl is the huge demand. When I went to see The Unthanks I intended to buy the 10” single of Mount The Air which is a different mix and was to be on sale at gigs. They’d ordered stock for the tour last year, but still hadn’t managed to get copies because the line to have vinyl pressed is so long and there are so few plants.

A store owner told me this week that Record Store Day was already causing a major logjam in pressing plants and smaller labels were worried about getting anything pressed.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 12:10:58 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Lew Soloff, one of the great trumpeters of our times, has died.. i saw him play countless times with so many different bands, and he always was exceptionally wonderful. Lew had spent the day with his daughter & grandkids, had a massive coronary in front of them all, collapsed in his daughters arms. His daughter gave him CPR. He died. And was revived, died again. Can you imagine? Always described as wonderful by everyone who knew him well, at least his family got to spend his last day with him, & vice versa.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 12:03:28 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, back when i bought The Brown album, the next year, 1972, a friend bought me a copy for my birthday.Even back then, i noticed right away that the two sounded different. One sounded wonderful, the other thin.

I know Hull, he learned at Bob Ludwig's shoulder. Hull always kept his lathe,and I saw it at Classic Sounds back in 02. Now, as you know, he owns, or more likely is the main principal owner of Masterdisk. They are cutting vinyl there again. They also came out with the Mastered For iTunes program.

Port got himself a racket going, huh? But, he has quite an investment, & the effort is far from slight. Fun way to break your ass though.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 11:55:43 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Germany
Web: My link

Subject: Jimi Hendrix never made the change

Joni Mitchell on Jimi Hendrix (link):

'You have to change like when Dylan went electric.

Jimi was tired of playing the guitar with his teeth and embarrassed about it. He wanted to do big band arrangements and just stand still and play ……. and cut the theatrics.

But Every time he tried that they would boo him and say Jimi is not himself. It’s a shame he never made the change.'


Entered at Sun Mar 8 11:31:35 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I also saw that records were washed, then vacuumed with an $8,000 deep groove cleaning machine. That might be the secret. When our local hi-fi shop had vinyl evenings, you could have any LP cleaned on their much more modest $400 vacuum machine. You put lots of record cleaning fluid on each side then it's vacuumed off. The before and after results are really noticeable too. A couple of used vinyl stores have them. They say any LP over £10 has been machine-cleaned, but they'll clean any record under £10 for £2.

With 45s, the issue of pressing plant comes in. Decca had its ffrr pressing system which for most of the 1950s produced a better vinyl copy than rivals. This is why UK London-American 45s of classic rock are held to sound better than original American pressings of the same song, even though the original will be at least one generation closer to the master tape.

But it brought me back to last week's heated discussion on the RCO All Stars. You realize this might all come down to Ben and Todd having low-matrix number copies and Pat and I having higher matrix number copies … (if only).

If David P ever lurks, the might be a good moment to return!


Entered at Sun Mar 8 11:20:06 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Do look at the "Wired" article for a picture of the $35,000 system. IMHO, a 30 watt amp could not drive speakers of those size properly.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 11:17:58 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Jeff, yes, the Hot stampers guy is the same, Better Records. It was fascinating, especially that his $35,000 test system is driven by a 30 watt 1970s thrift store integrated transistor amp because it's "neutral." All the money is in cartridge, deck and speakers.

There has always been a premium on "low matrix number" 45s for the Beatles and LPs too- these are the tiny marks stamped or scratched after the play out groove. It was held that the stampers which made LPs progressively deteriorated so early batches, as indicated by these tiny marks, were better. Both Decca and EMI had a coding system with letters replacing numbers. It's easy to interpret. But there are so many variables in the chain.

But looking at all those copies of Abbey Road with different markings, allegedly they sound different. Hmm. Am I convinced? I'm off to tape some little bits of aluminum foil to the electrical sockets. They must be exactly 50 mill x 42 mill to work and clean the electrics, as they say on April 1st.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 09:47:51 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Cropper& Booker T On.Playing the Hits Night After Night

Linked above.

Booker looked at us and said, ‘Man, I’ll never get tired of playing that song.’ So, that really sums it up for me.”



Entered at Sun Mar 8 09:35:08 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Funny Pete, i was coming to post a different article on the same subject. Linked above...It really made me think...I have doubles of some LPs, but i doubt I'd part with anything.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 09:17:23 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Hot stampers

Article from "Wired" linked on "hot stampers" - how pressings of LPs sound very different and on premium prices for LPs pressed early in the run. So, yes, my Big Pink is different to your Big Pink.


Entered at Sun Mar 8 03:35:56 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.159)

Posted by:

Bill M

Todd: Thanks for asking about disc 6 - which I'm thinking is the most special of them all. The sound on most is nowhere near as bad as I'd been led to believe, and some of the songs could have been classics had Dylan stuck with them.

Everybody's having fun, but everybody's working hard too - trying new sounds and phrasing, even when they're supposed to be just fooling around. Nice to hear the Hawks revisit "Who Do You Love", nice to hear Dylan turn "Fair And Tender Ladies" (or whatever) into "Madame Butterfly" - with falsettos and 'Oriental' notes. (I wasn't thinking of "Chinese Song" on "Twenty Granite Creek" when referred to Skip Spence the other day, by the way.)

Funny, and possibly instructive, to hear a complete take of a song and then Dylan suggesting to Garth that he should now turn the recorder on to capture the next take. "Ready Garth?" "Ready." Who's the boss?

For some reason it was sad to hear Bob urging Richard to take a vocal ("Which song?" "Any song.") but Richard feeling unable to do it. Reminded me of hearing the tape of Sam Phillips trying to talk Jerry lee Lewis" into recording "Great Balls Of Fire" - except that Sam kept at it and eventually succeeded.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 23:46:22 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

And for those of you who miss Amanda & Kay, they both are well, thriving, and have busy & eventful lives.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 23:42:01 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Kevin, Julie is doing well. We write each other, and keep abreast of what is going on in each other's lives. She is as pleasant as always, and a beautiful spirit to stay in touch with. I have fairly frequent contact with Abby, who is as riotously funny as ever, and cracks me up, also always adds more to any day. I hear from Tracy occasionally, who is also doing well, sweet & nice, and has a very unique interesting perspective on things.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 23:25:07 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: The Flying Fuck

See the link Al. While it is very important to have the ability to not give a fuck, or a flying fuck about a lot of things, we all now have more options..


Entered at Sat Mar 7 22:49:20 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: An uplifting 7 minutes from the sisters Wilson on a song that conjures up images of all sorts of words.......end of every dance, great basement parties........worth seeing this if just for the smiles on Page, Plant and Jones.......stay with the song all the way through....there's some surprises.........where's Julie?


Entered at Sat Mar 7 22:33:10 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: BTW: I don't smoke

The F-word thread has probably seen its end. It was exhausting. Time for a cigarette.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 22:01:38 CET 2015 from (108.36.197.190)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Ah, the "Frenchmen" limerick! A personal favorite of mine. Heard it a lot in Tulsa.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 22:01:16 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Selma

Sitting on the couch playing guitar......flip on the tv in the room and see curling on one chanel ( no thanks ) , women's university hockey on another ( no thanks ) get to CNN and Obama is delivering a beautifully written and powerfull speech on the 50 year aniversary of Selma......meanwhile at the GB - some are discussing the word Fuck ! A return to the RCO v NLSC would be more interesting.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 21:59:52 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Flippin eck

Well I couldn't give a flying fuck - I'm gonna stake my claim to the first fuck on this GB no matter what the fuck any fucker says

Ask Serge if you don't believe me

What we all talking 'bout by the way?

:-0)


Entered at Sat Mar 7 21:57:40 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Hyphens...

Peter V: That's a great title for a book.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 21:54:19 CET 2015 from (108.36.197.190)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Subject: consensus?

At the end of the White House Correspondents' Dinner in 2006, Laura Bush refused to shake Stephen Colbert's hand after his scathingly edgy speech. Instead, she said something to him that is open to debate. Those in the Bush camp claim she said "Not funny". Others swear she said "Get fucked". This was off-mike so we only have lip readers' opinions, which are split about even.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 21:47:18 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Hyphens rather than hymens

JT, this might take me some time to consider. "Fucking-well" is an adverb. "well-fucked" is something I'd have to consider. I'd guess "well" alone is the adverb there. But the meaning has indeed shifted considerably. This will be added to my book! Thanks.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 21:41:49 CET 2015 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: The Word

Whenever my old Granddad got pissed off he would angrily say 'jesus, jumped up, baldheaded, cross firing, american Fucking christ! Is this using the word as an adjective. Or an adverb/adjective? HaHa


Entered at Sat Mar 7 21:06:22 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Subject: The Great Fuck

I want to see those funkin’ Alice Cooper fans top this great fuck :-) ….…… Jeff A. a special fuck for you too :-)

Carmen great link ……Mike Nomad thanks for pointing me towards.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 20:56:28 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: pa
Web: My link

Subject: RR, Fogarty and Bruce

Interesting that Tom Morello worked on all three of their most recent albums.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 20:13:24 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Carmen's Clip........

.......and over at the Don Was GB, the posters are in a tizzy over Robertson hogging camera time at that RRHOF rehearsal.

Actually, even though that clip of John Fogerty, Bruce Springsteen and Robbie Robertson resembled just about every get-together of guitarists I have ever been part of......I also found it compelling just because of the people involved........with the funniest bit being Fogerty telling all he was going to be painting the house on the night of the event.

Joan: Glad I was able to make you smile and great seeing your name here again.

Todd: I liked that post of yours and it reminded me of that scene in Tom Wolfe's great novel "The Bonfire of the Vaniies" where a character meets a women and senses some attraction.....he then says a few things, not exactly how he wanted them to come out and by just looking at the women's eyes, realizes that he has lost her......no way back. In one form or other, it has happenned to all of us.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 20:08:48 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

JT, the spelling is flexible, dialectic, as we've discussed in the past. To me, zuckh, zickh, zickh, or zuchk, all make the most sense for yourself in Yiddish.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 20:01:46 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Zich

I would have predicted: Zich. I can hear my father now, though he avoided profanities usually.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 19:58:22 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

JT, i received a quick response & spelling correction.
Fuck zikh, or maybe Fuck zukh, means fuck yourself.
Gey fuck zikh, means Go fuck yourself.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 19:55:56 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Sweet

There is nothing in the world as sweet as Brooklyn Yiddish! Maybe something over there in the middle of the UK?


Entered at Sat Mar 7 19:52:05 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

JT, another expression i heard from my stepfather, but only once, was Fukzuchk. Pure Brooklyn Yiddish for go fuck yourself, or maybe fuck you and for all i know, his invention. I'm proud to carry on the tradition..... He's still alive, and living in Boca, near relatives, and plenty of other NYErs. And tells people Fuck you or Go fuck yourself regularly.

***********************************************************

BTW JT, i have just e mailed the proper authority to get a proper interpretation of the term.



Entered at Sat Mar 7 19:49:36 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

In the mid-70's my van broke down outside of Oklahoma City in he middle of the night. I got towed to a gas station where I had to kill time for quite a while. In the bathroom written on the wall was something I will never forget:

The Frenchmen are a funny race

They fight with their feet and f#ck with their face


Entered at Sat Mar 7 19:47:50 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: compromised hyphen?

Peter: Is there any consideration of repositioning the hyphen from its former position to one word later?


Entered at Sat Mar 7 19:40:11 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Old one, I've used it before and will in my forthcoming book.

Fuck me! The fucking fucker's fucking-well fucked!

This sentence shows the adaptability of root words in English, as the root "fuck" appears as an exclamation (technically, an imperative), an adjective, a noun, an adverb and a verb.

Here endeth the lesson.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 19:32:17 CET 2015 from (84.215.230.4)

Posted by:

jh

and then the fight turned into a f**kfest :-)


Entered at Sat Mar 7 19:17:08 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

JT, no need since most here recognize humor.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 19:06:41 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Happiness is a warm gun

Maybe I should have put an emoticon smiley :) after my last post.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 19:03:10 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Go do the anatomically impossible

And since no one acknowledged or responded in any way (good or bad) to my Shakespeare (total indifference), I suggest perhaps that you all follow Hitchens advice.

Go do the anatomically impossible!


Entered at Sat Mar 7 18:59:26 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: The Rumor

On Live @ The Academy I believe there is a beautiful harmony sung by Richard and Levon on The Rumor.Is that correct that it's Richard and Levon? That album is incredible.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 18:52:37 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT and LvdB

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: The British Empire provides... Hitchens "A Very,Very Dirty Word"

Christopher Hitchens makes good reading...

The British Empire's second-greatest gift to the world. By Christopher Hitchens

The following anecdote appears in one of Niall Ferguson's absorbing studies of the British Empire. On the eve of independence for the colony of South Yemen, the last British governor hosted a dinner party attended by Denis Healey, then the minister for defense. Over the final sundown cocktail, as the flag was about to be lowered over the capital of Aden, the governor turned to Healey and said, "You know, Minister, I believe that in the long view of history, the British Empire will be remembered only for two things." What, Healey was interested to know, were these imperishable aspects? "The game of soccer. And the expression 'fuck off.' "

This prediction, made almost 40 years ago, now looks alarmingly prescient. Soccer enthusiasm is sweeping the globe, and both Sen. John Kerry and Vice President Dick Cheney have resorted to the "fuck" word in the recent past—Kerry to say "fucked up" in connection with postwar planning in Iraq and Cheney to recommend that Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., go and attempt an anatomical impossibility. The latter advice received the signal honor of being printed in full, without asterisks, in the Washington Post, thus provoking some ombudsmanlike soul-searching on its own account by the paper's editor, Len Downie.

At some media-pol event in Washington after the invasion of Afghanistan, I was told by an eyewitness that Al Franken attempted an ironic congratulation of Paul Wolfowitz, saying that Bush had won by using Clinton's armed forces. "Fuck off," was the considered riposte of the deputy defense secretary.

If things go on like this—which in a way I sometimes hope they do—we will reach the point where newspapers will report exchanges deadpan, like this:

" 'Fuck off,' he shot back." " 'Fuck off,' he suggested." " 'Fuck off,' he opined." " 'Fuck off,' he advised." " 'Fuck off,' he averred." " 'Fuck off,' he joked." Or even, " 'Fuck off,' he quipped."

The spreading of this tremendous rejoinder by means of the British Empire or its surrogates cannot be doubted. In London, older men of Greek Cypriot descent can be heard to say, as they rise from the card game or the restaurant table, "Thakono fuck off," by which they mean, "I shall now take my leave"; or, "It really is high time that I returned to the bosom of my family"; or perhaps, phrased more tersely and in the modern vernacular, "I am out of here."

A friend of mine was once a junior officer in her majesty's forces in the Egyptian Suez Canal Zone. One of his duties was the procuring of fresh fruit for those under his command. On a certain morning, an Egyptian merchant called upon him and announced that he could furnish a regular supply of bananas. "Just the thing," replied my friend, "that we are looking for." The man then spoiled the whole effect by stating, in poor but unmistakable English, that of course in the event of an agreement Capt. Lewis could expect 5 percent on top. Peter—I call him this because it is his name—thereupon became incensed. He stated that such a suggestion was an unpardonable one and added that he was sure he could find another banana merchant and that, whatever the case might be, such a banana supplier would emphatically not be the man who had just made such an outrageous proposition to a British serving officer. Sensing his own lapse in taste, the Egyptian made a courteous bow and replied with perfect gravity: "OK, effendi. I fuck off now." It was plain that he had acquired his basic English from loitering around the barracks gate.

Let us not forget, in other words, the implied etiquette of the term. If shouted at a follower or supporter of another soccer team, in a moment of heat, it may connote "please go away" or even "go away in any case." But if used of oneself—dare one say passively—it may simply express the settled determination to be elsewhere. (I once heard the late Sir Kingsley Amis, describing the end of an evening of revelry, saying, "So then—off I fucked.")

"Fuck you" or "Go fuck yourself"—the popular American form—lacks this transitive/intransitive element to some degree. At points, it even seems to confuse the act of sexual intercourse with an act of aggression: a regrettable overlap to be sure. Anglo-Americanism in Iraq may turn out to be the crucible of this difference. I know from experience that older Iraqis, who remember the British period with mingled affection and resentment, are aware of the full declensions of the "fuck" verb. But to judge by their gestures, some of the younger Iraqis are a bit coarser. "Fuck off," some of them seem to be yelling at coalition forces. A lot hinges on the appropriate military response. "Fuck you" might be risky. "OK, off we fuck, then" might buy some valuable time.



Entered at Sat Mar 7 18:43:37 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Apologies all. I now included & capitalized a phrase my first section needed: Norbert, in Brooklyn, in all of NYC, probably the entire greater NYC area, Go Fuck Yourself, and some related expressions, ARE PART OF MANY DAILY CONVERSATIONS, & have multiple meanings.Implications & Understandings vary by the relationship between the Go fucker & the Go fuckee.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 18:00:23 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Norbert, in Brooklyn, in all of NYC, probably the entire greater NYC area, Go Fuck Yourself, and some related expressions, have multiple meanings.Implications & Understandings vary by the relationship between the Go fucker & the Go fuckee.

Go Fuck Yourself, spoken offhandedly, or casually,amongst friends, can mean a simple, Get the fuck outta here. That's hard to believe.
Or it can mean That's an absurd plan, don't even think about it.

Change the relationships a little, Go fuck yourself - frequently means, - that's a pretty weak attempt to fuck me, get the fuck outta here.
It can also be a casual, or possibly not so casual warning. In any relationship.

Spoken in a more strong tone of voice, Go fuck yourself can often be a definite warning threat that the Go fucker will harm you.

In a raised tone of voice, in anger, Go fuck yourself, well it's a definite sign trouble is coming. / Of course, sometimes it's an empty threat. Other times it's not.Sometimes it's just anger, or ego, or chest thumping.

And of course, separatedly, & obviously, trouble need not be accompanied by any Go fuck yourself, or fuck you. It's common here for people to act like nothings wrong, or to even say I'm sorry, or without an apology make peace, then beat the shit out of someone, cripple them, or kill em.

It's kind of all a fact of daily life here still. Though not to the degree it used to be. And of course, since the demographics have changed, i don;t know the realities in other languages. And don;t want to learn. The huge, rapid influx of hipsters, suburbanites, people raised in a coddled fashion, & how these people are raising their kids here, there's changes. And the City Of NY, the officials, wish old NYC would disappear entirely. but it doesn't happen so easy. Ask me, it will always be important for some one to have the ability to insticntively understand the context and tone of actual conversation and just what an actual Go fuck yourself means.
Of course, it's just one sentence in one interaction. One still has to navigate every other minute. The rest of life.

**********************************************************

When i was a kid,not yet a teen, i heard my stepfather tell a more or less friend - Go fuck yourself. And if you have any relatives in Pittsburgh, fuck them too. - That has remained a favorite expression of mine. Of course, I only use it apropriatedly. In fitting, worthy situations. It's mostly pretty humorous. I've never heard anyone but friends of my stepfathers and my own use it since. I guess it's my stepfathers and one of my cultural contributions. I recall using it here many years ago, maybe once in here since.

Go fuck yourself, is never an insult.

*********************************************************

GB insults and threats are pretty weak. Observations, opinions, based on behavior, are very different that insults. Attempts to have lucid discussion, & when that fails, attempts to discuss the fall out lucidly, are very different than insults, or other people trying to portray someone's discussing or response, as angry or upset.

Real life is very different. The nuances & vagaries of real life, are very different. Here, in The Gb, you have people portraying themselves as intelligent, or authorities, cause they think they are. Or want to be considered as such. Or as tough, maybe cause they chop wood fast. Or are big. And also curse freely, yet then get upset when some one else writes Go fuck yourself to two of his GB buddies. And then tries to insult some one. As Steve once wrote- What do you think will happen? Is a hand going to come through your computer and punch you?

Some people give money or turkeys as charity, come here, and boast about it. Some people boast about a lot. In real life, i know real charity is something you are not supposed to brag about. Charity is supposed to be anonymous, and forgotten. Most actual tough guys, in real life, they don't brag either. Real life, is very different.

************************************************************

Regarding the Go Fuck Yourself instructional, that was just an incomplete primer. Decades of living are required, it's not something you can learn or really teach on a computer or in a book.

Norbert, could i really be the first to write this to you?- Fuck you. And if you have any relatives in Alsace Lorraine, fuck them too.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 17:20:48 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Peter V, you were right about that Glyn Johns book. I'm struggling to plow through it. Before this I read Man on The Run, Paul McCartney in the 70's. That was a great read. It's amazing, no matter what The Beatles were offered to get back together they knew to leave it alone. Back in the 60's, the pride of Brooklyn, Sandy Koufax pitched for the Dodgers. He retired at the peak of his career because of arthritis in his arm. He never grew old as a ball player, never had those seasons that tarnish your legend. As long as people play baseball every great pitcher will be compared to him. The same applies to The Beatles.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 16:44:46 CET 2015 from (65.93.116.167)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Thanks to Carmen and Wallsend for those 1993 HOF inductions clips. Good to see, although Carmen's rehearsal vid was the first I had seen of it. Compelling.

Unrelatedly, I now have clearer insight into the Power of Joan. Sweet!


Entered at Sat Mar 7 16:02:21 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Don't let me be misunderstood

Is that what I said,"lets all fight"?-interesting and funny interpretation.With all respect,I wasn't referring to fighting on the GB,but to a specific comment which was so judgemental,holier than thou bullshitty that I was shocked it was so easily passed over.Perhaps because it was 2 sentences or so,or because it was made in the middle of a long conversation or argument about something else that I didn't read,but it was given a pass.Just got under my skin.I have consistently said,since I started posting here,that the feud notwithstanding,I admire all of the Band's members.This poster,Mr. Ethics,seems to have a profound dislike of Levon and I'm assuming that his comments were rooted in those sentiments.Whatever-I felt compelled to rant,which I have and let's move on to other arguments.Or maybe I'll just start the music to see where it leads!


Entered at Sat Mar 7 14:21:34 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Subject: Fuck you!

Jed is right, let’s all fight!

All fighting together here will create an enormous fighting pool and the real fights will drown between the fake ones. So there will be and can be no fights no more.

It will release all GB stress, give us air for a year (say things that you normally wouldn’t dare to say, or always wanted to say). Anyway I see a lot of possibilities and advantages, I see a new GB ….. so in this way ……

Fuck you! ……….and some of you particularly! ………….(feels good ;-)


Entered at Sat Mar 7 13:00:05 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Ethics?

Recently someone posted about the ethics of Band members,judging them to be beneath his standards.How could one judge without knowing the people?Or,how or why should anyone judge?Are we all wonders of moral perfection? What chutzpah!


Entered at Sat Mar 7 12:44:16 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Subject: Spring!

It’s a perfect day here in Germany….. spring is a comin’........

All doors are open, sun bursts on the grass ……….just got the firewood for the evening ………..neighbor Georg, in his orange chainsaw pants, is cutting fresh firewood with his little Stihl ……. Els is backing apple pie.. …smells so familiar ….reminds me of back than when my mom used to bake …

I’ll swap the winter tires with pleasure and wax the 993 just for fun.

A perfect day, weekenders on our own .... we’ll take a walk in the park and watch children play.

Such a perfect day here in Germany, it’s almost France.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 10:52:08 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: Argument Clinic

We had some famous GB fights here, I remember Benteen who fought all, or Steve ….ah those where the days ……

I had some fights here too, but I'm not good ad it.

We all fight from time to time and it's healthy. A good argument gives air, stimulates & exercises the heart, clears the veins, reals the teeth and prevents varicose veins.

But a proper fight has also a BEGINNING and an END (and at the end it's only the journey that matters says Hemmingway).

Before we fight on here please attend this little argument clinic (link). It only takes 6 minutes but arguing will never be the same….

Anyway our relation therapist always says; SHUT UP AND MAKE LOVE! ….

p.s. Wallsend I agree on Martin C.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 08:48:41 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Milk Cow Blues could have a book written about it, and I bet there is one. The first known version is Sleepy John Estes, then you get Kokomo Arnold and then Robert Johnson. Elvis was being playful, and I’d guess that’s the version with most copies dotted around the world. Eddie Cochran’s was a posthumous release, so we don’t know whether he would have used it. I guess he was reacting to Elvis’s boogified version by taking it back to the blues roots, which explains the strong nod to Manish Boy.

What Eddie Cochran has is youth, a magnificently impassioned vocal delivery, lots of space (a Band characteristic) and a great guitar solo by Eddie.

As you know, Eddie Cochran is proportionally more popular in the UK than America, maybe because he died here, and after wonderful TV appearances that galvanised British youth. Four of his songs are among the best rock and roll ever recorded: C’mon Everybody, Something Else, Summertime Blues, Cut Across Shorty. Milk Cow Blues is a cover and not in that category, but as Todd infers on Elvis, his version doesn’t rank with That’s All Right Mama either.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 08:14:45 CET 2015 from (58.104.1.240)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

I don't recall seeing this boot of the Wembley Stadium 14/9/74 show before.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 06:16:26 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: One or Two More Things

Joe Frey, that news about The Band Capitol Rarities sounds intriguing. Can’t wait to find out more details.

Bob F. I’m still exploring the Basement Tapes Complete Box, and haven’t spent much time with disc 6 yet. I know that Bill M, has been enjoying it for a while, so he may have some insights.

‘On a Rainy Afternoon’ is interesting. I think there were some other versions of ‘Rainy Afternoon’ that were captured during the ‘Eat The Document’ era, but I’m not completely sure. I may have the timeline wrong. One of my favorite unreleased / unfinished Dylan songs is the snippet of ‘I Can’t Leave Her Behind’ that he was working on with Robbie, also from Eat The Document. Really would have been nice to hear more of that.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 06:04:18 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: The Hills are Alive

Kevin J., That Elliot Landy Popspots link that you posted the other day is one of the best things I've seen in a while. I knew of some of the locations, but the detail, especially on the Wittenberg house, was amazing.

It was cool to see the location superimposed over a topographical map of the area. Off to the Northwest from that view from Wittenberg, is Willow, where a friend of mine has a cabin that I've stayed at from time to time when visiting the area. One of my best memories was taking a trip up to the area by myself on a Ramble weekend. Everyone else was busy, so I made the journey alone. I got into town quite early, and had many hours before the Ramble to relax. I had recently gotten Bob Dylan's Chronicles, and spent a few hours reading it in this little cabin just miles away from some of the things he was writing about. Other than family vacations, that was one of the rare times that I was totally able to unplug and be totally relaxed. Glad that I took the opportunity when I did.


Entered at Sat Mar 7 05:42:58 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Catching Up

Anyone ever have one of those moments when you post something that seems like a good idea at the time, but when you revisit it later you wonder why it couldn’t have been served up with a little more grace, wit, or charm? Those moments when you re-read that nugget of wisdom that seemed cool at the time, but in the cruel light of the day is cringe-worthy. I have those moments frequently.....but I'm working on it.

In spite of our many differences and personal preferences, I think it’s good to remember that on some basic foundational level, we all share a love of The Band, and that’s something to be thankful for. I'd like to see more participation rather than less, and I'm sure some of my posts have had a hand in turning people off from participating. It’s not necessary to always agree, but there’s should always be room for respect. The safe thing would be to only say nice things, and give 5 star reviews to everything. That would probably get (dare I say) boring quickly. The sport of one-upmanship can be fun, and I’m as guilty as the next for jumping into the deep end, but I think we all know when it’s gone too far. I’ll work on it, but I won’t promise that I won’t try to get a zinger or two in from time to time. The simple fact is that some of us have been here so long, (and I still consider myself as one of the new guys) it's easy to know which buttons to press to get a reaction.

Thinking about my rating system from the other day, perhaps an A,B,C type of rating for each song would have been more accurate than a yes or no. All of the Band’s songs have some value, and pass/fail doesn’t address any of the nuances. That said, I have to wrap up a few thoughts.

Peter V. I had listened to the Elvis version of ‘Milk Cow’, a couple of days ago, and it’s fine but doesn’t rate as highly with me as many of Elvis’s other works. I couldn’t lose the thought that it reminded me too much of ‘That’s Alright Mama’. When I listened to the Eddie Cochran version, I kept thinking of a speeded up version of ‘Manish Boy’. Both versions are fine, but I still prefer Levon’s on the RCO album. As I said earlier, the bass and drums lock me in, and I think Levon’s vocal has the right amount of grit and swagger that carries it. Just personal preference, and I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind.

‘Somewhere Down the Crazy River’ has a lot of great things going on in it. The music backing is textured and moody, and the chorus works well. What doesn’t work for me is the spoken word part of it. I know many others think that’s the best part of the song. It’s well done, but it’s not my idea of a melody, although it would make for an interesting voiceover. Points for a novel approach, but that part of the song takes me out of the song in some way.

Side 1 of the album is the stronger side for me. ‘Broken Arrow’ is a great song, and I would love to hear it sung by a female vocalist sometime with a soulful voice. Maybe there are covers out there other than Rod’s. I won’t judge the 1980’s production too harshly. That was the time, and that was the sound, and I generally like what Daniel Lanois brings to the table as a producer. My only other issue with the album is all of the various guests. I like Peter Gabriel and have many of his albums, but when I hear him sing, it starts sounding more like a Peter Gabriel project rather than a Robbie project. Same thing with U2. I feel that Robbie found a better balance with the guest artist on HTBC, and even with Clapton on there, it still sounds like a Robbie project.

It just occurred to me that Norm has been out at sea for too long. One of the things that he’s good at around here is giving a swift kick in the ass to keep people in line when necessary. It’s good to have that relief valve from time to time, and I don’t even care that we disagree on many things. And I still think that he lied about retiring. Seems like he's working more than ever!


Entered at Sat Mar 7 00:59:19 CET 2015 from (207.164.2.174)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Twelfth Night: The bard must have had foresight re the GB

"If music be the food of love, play on;

Give me excess of it; that, surfeiting,

The appetite may sicken, and so die. —

That strain again; it had a dying fall:

O, it came oer my ear, like the sweet sound

That breathes upon a bank of violets,

Stealing, and giving odour! Enough! No more.

'Tis not so sweet now as it was before.

" Orsino, Twelfth Night, scene i


Entered at Sat Mar 7 00:15:11 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Todd, you are quite right. When someone engages in a conversation and hears that an album they like is referred to as a disaster or that an album they love has horrible production and clunker songs, instead of assuming people want an honest response--even if that response is as "insulting" as the initial reference--silence is the best policy.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 23:51:48 CET 2015 from (58.104.1.240)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Carmen, and this was some of the actual performance. Fantastic.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 23:40:22 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Subject: Balance

I won't have time until later to properly reply to some earlier posts, but for now I will point out that some people have been performing linguistic gymnastics to say how boring they thought RCO Allstars was.

It was described as a "yawn-fest" and as even "worse than a yawn-fest". I know that this is only opinion, and there's validity to being honest and sharing true opinions. I suppose you could say only the work is being insulted, but at a certain point the artist and work are connected. Especially in something as personal as music.

How well would it be received if someone said that Robbie is a very interesting person, but his work is boring....or even worse than boring?

Is there some sort of balance that can be achieved that provides genuine opinion without trashing a person's work...especially persons who most of us claim to be fans of?


Entered at Fri Mar 6 23:15:36 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat: Now you are discussing the subject of a person. Very different than discussing a person. To respond to yet another inadequate condemnation, another way to express what i've already written Pat, is : How a person behaves & relates, & the subject of that person, are two different things. Or, phrase it another way: Someone's personality, may be very different than the subject of the person's accomplishments. I think that is a very realistic statement, and once more- honestly can;t see how you can disagree with that. Unless of course you just want to distort what i have written to present me in a light of your choosing. that's your call. All i can do is respond.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 23:10:22 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Jan is right. We don't even have a quorum for a decent bar brawl. So we might as well, as I said yesterday, agree to disagree. Except the concept that any one of the "five" might bore those of us left is ludicrous.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 23:06:47 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA
Web: My link

Subject: check this one out

First I have ever seen this one - RR, Bruce and Fogerty


Entered at Fri Mar 6 22:57:02 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Jan, I apologize to you too. You deserve better.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 22:55:38 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Sorry, Joan.

Oh, Jeff. Still upset that you didn't get my little joke? Too bad. If you can argue that "fascistic" doesn't mean "fascist", you can argue anything because "yes" evidently means "no" in your world. But your uncanny ability to name-call and play the martyr card continues unabated. Just admit I'm a putz and we can move on. Like I said, what a laugh. Here's what I think. Every person I know of accomplishment is terribly interesting, in one way or another. You don't know enough of RR to declare he's not boring because you haven't met him? What a laugh.

Again, Joan, I apologize.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 22:51:26 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I meant to type that - the sentence you referred to as my first, was my third. - My keypad or program is missing stuff, and that is the one section i didn't catch that needed a correction....



Entered at Fri Mar 6 22:50:40 CET 2015 from (84.215.230.4)

Posted by:

jh

and a fight starts. there isn't enough people in the place to get angry.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 22:45:33 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Al, I'd have answered you already. Instead, you see where the energy goes. But, stay tuned. You'll get your answer. But not if Pat apologizes first.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 22:41:43 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Actually Pat, you are providing some great examples today. For one thing, as Ben has pointed out, you are having difficulty with elementary math. Maybe that is why you commanded everyone to "Count out loud" twice the other day. the sentence to which you refer was my first. Here is that section of what I wrote:
" Something i've been witness to Pat, is that there can be, and often is, an enormous disconnect between people's work, their work accomplishments, & their personality. It holds true for musicians & songwriters. If you would be honest, you would probably agree."

Your presentation that i have depicted you as dishonest in that sentence is inaccurate. At point I am giving you the opportunity to agree. As you have not yet diasgreed with me, you still could. And you could write, "You know what Jeff? I was wrong about the whole thing. I apologize." But, rather than do that, you prefer to reverse the order & alter the meaning of what I wrote.

Later on, I addressed my take on the reality of your posts, regarding anything I write. Here:
"As usual,rather than participate in actual constructive exchange of information you're more interested in diversionary, antagonistic tactics. I expect that most people understood very clearly exactly what I wrote & why."
And now, once again you demonstrate how correct I am.

It really is a shame how much effort you put into negativity, and how much negativity therefore has to be countered.

It's not too late, Pat. You could just declare: "Hey Jeff!. I've been a royal putz. I apologize. Lets' throw away the hatchet."


Entered at Fri Mar 6 22:20:03 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Jeff, your first sentence infers that I would agree with you if only I was honest. What a laugh.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 22:05:16 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Something i've been witness to Pat, is that there can be, and often is, an enormous disconnect between people's work, their work accomplishments, & their personality. It holds true for musicians & songwriters. If you would be honest, you would probably agree. Peter, someone could be from a small town, never got more than 100 miles away, never have met or worked with a celebrity, and not be boring. Someone could have worked with all those people you mentioned, have plenty to talk about, might even talk about it, & be boring, or a bore. So, yeah. Having never met the man, & having really only seen a lot of his personality in The Last Waltz, I've no problem writing that regarding is he boring: "RR, i wouldn't know." Again, people could have plenty to say, & be considered a bore. I certainly would not think it fair to judge whether the present day RR is boring, solely by the persona he presented in The Last Waltz & in some interviews.

The fact that the two of you are taking swipes at me for correcting NWC that the Band & the members I personally knew are not boring, but me not being willing to comment on some one i never actually knew, is quite telling.

As usual,rather than participate in actual constructive exchange of information you're more interested in diversionary, antagonistic tactics. I expect that most people understood very clearly exactly what I wrote & why. Joan, please note the tone & content of what I write, & the tones & content of other people's writing relative to mine..


Entered at Fri Mar 6 21:36:59 CET 2015 from (58.104.1.240)

Posted by:

Wallsend

That Martin Carthy interview is fabulous.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 20:06:24 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: Dylan, London 1962

Martin Carthy on dylan's 1962 London trip (link, 1 of 12).


Entered at Fri Mar 6 19:58:44 CET 2015 from (87.152.121.169)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: With God on My Side
Web: My link

Subject: The holy grail of missing Dylan archive

Ian enjoyed your post thanks. There is also a YouTube series by Martin Carthy about the Dylan trip.

How is the quality of the reel you have of that recording? Must be a sought after collector item …

Where are your articles to be read? Why not ad some sex and write a book?

Can’t you post the articles here?


Entered at Fri Mar 6 19:49:37 CET 2015 from (58.104.1.240)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I think Don't Ya Tell Henry was in their set lists early on. At least they played it at Woodstock, Isle of Wight and with Dylan on ROA. Also, one of my least favourite BT songs.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 19:45:41 CET 2015 from (96.30.173.135)

Posted by:

joe j

Web: My link

Subject: Ringo Now

This link to Ringo's latest should bring a smile.

Thoroughly enjoyed the link to the Woodstock (and other) locations.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 19:43:36 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Disc 6

Disc 6 is rough sounding but just magical. Love 'Going' Down The Road Feeling Bad'. Spring is on it's way to the Hudson Valley and The Basement Tapes are sounding real good! Happy Friday everyone.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 19:38:24 CET 2015 from (108.41.170.168)

Posted by:

Joan

I'm kind of cranky this morning so please excuse the rant. Could you guys please let it go, some of you would be like a dog with a bone. Kevin very funny thank you the only thing that made me smile today


Entered at Fri Mar 6 19:28:20 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Actually the 90s Band did revisit Don't Ya Tell Henry live - not a song I like much, but it was a Basement Tapes revisit. And they did One Too Many Mornings from the 66 tour. But I agree, there was such a wealth of stuff. Instead they dug up Love You Too Much, a Dylan fragment of extraordinary dullness, justification being that as no one had done it was an "unreleased Dylan."


Entered at Fri Mar 6 19:10:15 CET 2015 from (58.104.1.240)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Kevin J, thanks for the link to the Elliot Landy page on Popspots. I love that kind of stuff. It combines two of my great loves - music and historical geography.

The impression I got of the reformed Band was that no one was willing to put in the hard work required to come up with original material. Revisiting the BTs would have required imagination and work.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 18:43:07 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Joe F: Thanks. Hope you're right.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 17:56:33 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: On A Rainy Afternoon

'On A Rainy Afternoon', disc 6 from The Basement Tapes Complete is such a cool little piece of a song. It would have been great as a Band song on say Cahoots. I wonder why the reformed Band never went back to these songs when looking for material. They had a legitimate claim to them with so much to choose from. Instead they did another version of Forever Young.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 17:49:30 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Pat, I think Jeff meant that if the only people you’d hung out with were Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Joni Mitchell, David Geffen, Jodie Foster, Gary Busey, Peter Gabriel, Eric Clapton, Van Morrison, Neil Diamond, Jesse Winchester, Carly Simon, Martin Scorsese, Jack Nicholson, Anjelica Huston, Rita Coolidge, The Neville Brothers, then it would be hard for Jeff to work out whether such a person would have anything significant to talk about, Jeff having met much more interesting guys. However, I am worried about Bono.

Ben, I saw The Who in a basement club shortly after I Can't Explain.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 17:37:47 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, I hope this doesn't antagonize you. I saw the Who a lot in my youth. Chicago was a big market for them. We went to a teen club in 67 to see them--the Cellar in Arlington Heights--but we didn't get in. They regularly played at a place called the Kinetic Playground. Saw them probably once in 68, a couple times in 69. They then graduated quickly to bigger places where I eventually lost interest. The drugs changed, the sound sucked, the crowds got violent, etc. One of the few bands without keyboards that I absolutely loved. So, of course, I saw them do Tommy, but I'm pretty sure they never performed it in its entirety. There was always a couple of songs that didn't make the cut. Don't quote me--its a faded memory.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 17:20:52 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Well, as someone who is actually a fan of the Band, I can inform the GB that RR isn't boring. You don't have to take my word for it. And for fear of being called fascistic again, please regard this as voluntary. Listen to everything that has his name on it. Listen to the guitar playing, the lyrics, the music in all the movies, you know, everything. Then ask yourself: could I possibly say in public that I don't know whether RR is boring or not?


Entered at Fri Mar 6 17:05:02 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Ahah! Linked is the real reason Alice cooper is winning or has won that On line voting for Battle of the Bands.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 16:48:52 CET 2015 from (74.43.18.162)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA
Web: My link

Subject: Rolling Stone Article

See story in Rolling Stone. I actually look forward to hearing this. Like to see RR contribute something in Memory of RM.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 16:24:24 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Al, I hope you can stick around a bit. You were here before I landed in 2002. The waters were treacherous when i was dropped on board by Big Joe's helicopter, and i should have never gotten off that bottom rung, made even my first post. It was clear that regardless of the view of the songwriting feud they took, the majority of the posters, on here were rabid, sun poisoned, or otherwise infectious. You were / are quite a big part of the history here and you know the score. While this place will never be right, and the futility & general pointlessness of it all, plus the intentional misconstrusion/interference, maybe we can make it a slight bit interesting for a bit. Later....

NWC, The Band was never, ever, in any way, shape, or form, boring.. Many adjectives could be applied, even in temporary use. But boring would never apply to Garth, Rick, Richard, Levon, or The Band.... RR, i wouldn't know.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 16:19:26 CET 2015 from (81.107.236.227)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Brum UK

Subject: Hi Dunc

Hi Dunc - yes I've been to a gig at the Caird Hall. I saw the Who at the Pavilion in Bournemouth in the late 60s. The sound was lousy but at least they played the whole of the RCO All Stars album.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 15:38:06 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest
Web: My link

Subject: Hysterically yours

You are right Jeff A. The Band is hysterically fun according to this rare and never published pic on a Finnish site for retired people - see My link.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 15:34:49 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Nice to see some talk here about The Who. I envy the folks here that saw them in their late 60's-mid 70's prime. I'm 46 and started listening to them around the time of their "farewell" tour in '82. I think 'Who's Next' is a perfect album, right up there with 'Astral Weeks' and the first two Band albums.

As I said in my previous post, I truly feel that the "truth" if there is a single, objective thing, is somewhere between Levon's version and Robbie's. I think Levon had some genuine grievances with the music industry, the songwriting issue was just one of them.

As a fan of the music, I find there's no contest. I have dozens of official and un-offical cd's and tapes of Levon performances solo and with The Band from the RCO tour through the midnight rambles. For Robbie, there is nothing. So, my allegiance is squarely with Levon. But, that doesn't mean that I hate Robbie. Obviously he was a crucial element of The Band. He was a great songwriter.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 14:09:59 CET 2015 from (70.91.131.217)

Posted by:

Joe Frey

Location: Albany, NY

Subject: Band rarities

Om March 2nd, I found this little nugget over at MusicTap

On May 12, Capitol Records will release a digital version (for now) of Capitol Rarities 1968-1977 that contain rarities from The Band.

Hmmm.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 13:23:14 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

NWC, The Band were downright hysterical. I couldn't speak about RR, but Rick, Levon, Garth, were / are painfully funny. Naturally. My encounters with Richard were few, and not really personal, but he was riotous.
And as regards true bluesmen, they can always get the girl.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 13:05:20 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Boring - we?

Bill M has right. We are boring. What else, to be boring was the trade mark for The Band. It was their brand. No humor at all. Only Sting is more boring. During my professional life I was voted as the most boring teacher despite my brown loafers, chinos in beige and button-down Oxford shirt, light blue. Not to mention that the most frequent poster comes from Boringmouth, or whatever. Even Norbert - Dutches are considered the most boring people in Europe - has taken the consequences and found a hideaway across the border. Chicks have left us for a long time ago. In other words, we are the real BLUESMEN!


Entered at Fri Mar 6 12:56:59 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Sure stirring up some ghosts for me

There is the question of when "Islands" was actually recorded.

Todd, I'm surprised at thumbs down for "Somewhere Down The Crazy River" not only a great song and lyric, but only Robbie could have done lead vocal. BUT I have always thought four tracks: Crazy River, Fallen Angel, Broken Arrow & Sonny Got Caught In The Moonlight were head and shoulders above the rest of the album. It's certainly not an "every track" is great album, but four great tracks is very good for mid-80s, and Crazy River and Fallen Angel are among the best stuff he's ever done - solo or with The Band.

The "warm up before London" which Dunc mentions is normal. It's especially true for theatre where it's common to run a play for two to four weeks outside London before going in. We exploit that by seeing it early while they're all fresh (another way of looking at it), and geographically they tend to do a week in Brighton then a week in Bath to warm up, which is great for us. Easier to get to, way cheaper to park, tickets half the London prices. And Bath and Brighton are both pleasant towns to spend the rest of the day in, though as a Bournemouth lad I have to point out that Brighton has a stones beach, not our golden sands. We usually choose Bath.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 12:35:54 CET 2015 from (24.199.71.83)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

For me the main selling point for Islands is that you get three great vocals by Richard, with two of them right up front. Oddly, for me Levon comes off the weakest on this album (fewer key leads, so-so material)... despite still being in peak form around this time, as a quick look at the Last Waltz will show you.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 12:03:14 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

Spirit of NorthWestCoaster's Dog

Location: Ruins of pink painted doghouse

Subject: Bill M on Fri Mar 6 02:48:49 CET 2015

‘Where are we going, fellas?’

‘To the top, Billy!’

‘Where’s that, fellas?’

‘To the Toppermost of the BORINGMOST!’


Entered at Fri Mar 6 11:45:55 CET 2015 from (86.183.247.239)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Who's Next

I was lucky enough to be at the Caird Hall in Dundee (Roger has been there. Hello Roger.) when The Who played 'Who's Next' for the first time. Then they played some hits towards the end of the concert.

It was a great concert, made more outstanding because the place was packed with people sitting in balcony stepped aisles because of forged tickets.

Keith Moon, Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend were great performers.

But I would have preferred more hits and it leaked that the tour started in Dundee so that faults could be ironed out before it hit London.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 10:39:07 CET 2015 from (219.89.221.66)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: Islands

I reckon it's got a drum machine on it and it's just Rick , Garth and Robbie.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 09:50:04 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Milk Cow Blues

You probably need to hear Eddie Cochran do it. Linked. Plus the Elvis version is the one with the (fake) false start before he rocks it up. Both great takes on the song.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 08:27:20 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Subject: Horses for Courses

'Forbidden Fruit' isn't "bad". It almost got a Yes vote from me. It's just one of the songs that I can ultimately do without, especially when there are better songs surrounding it on the same album. Like most of The Band songs, it's well performed, but 'Ophelia', 'Acadian Driftwood', and 'Jupiter Hollow', to name a few from NLSC, are better, or for some reason connect with me better. It's just a feel.

I think the live version on AMH from the Palladium show is a much better version of the song. All the pieces are there, strong playing and singing and it's a dynamic song. I just feel like the melody isn't quite as strong as some of their other work. I'm listening to it from AMH as I type this. It's followed by 'Home Cooking' and 'Out of the Blue', both of which I prefer over 'Forbidden Fruit'.

I LIKE 'Milk Cow Boogie'. If I could only pick two favorites from RCO All Stars, Milk Cow would be one of them. And I'm not trying to say it's even the greatest song or lyric in the world. There's just something about the bass line and the drums in 'Milk Cow' that pulls me in. I'm not a dancer, but that song (and an IPA or three) almost makes me feel like I could be.

I like the song 'Islands'. Years ahead of its time.

I figured I'd save the alcohol for the reaction to my results. Might be easier to just rate them all at 5 stars!


Entered at Fri Mar 6 08:09:17 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: One of Garth Hudson's favourite songs - mine too. There had to be alcohol at that party!


Entered at Fri Mar 6 07:58:27 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: From ER today, an amazing behind the scenes look and story behind many of Elliott Landy The Band and other photos including that 2.8 star 1987 album ! Enjoy the beer Todd !


Entered at Fri Mar 6 07:47:51 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Plus, am I the only one who really likes the song Islands?


Entered at Fri Mar 6 07:46:14 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

If I had to choose between Levon tearing up Forbidden Fruit--with that beautiful rhythm between Levon, Richard, and Rick combined with Garth's genius and RR's aggressive guitar (not to mention the great chord structure, sharp lyrics, and very cool bridge)--and the lukewarm and fairly generic remake of Elvis's Milk Cow Boogie on the RCO album, I can't imagine a Band fan going with the latter. Todd, are you absolutely sure there was no alcohol involved?


Entered at Fri Mar 6 07:31:08 CET 2015 from (219.89.221.66)

Posted by:

Rod

yay - we have some momentum for Islands!. I remember one of those famous guys, ( Dave Marsh or Robert G maybe ) who know more than us, also preferred Islands.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 07:22:44 CET 2015 from (219.89.221.66)

Posted by:

Rod

I'd say that RCO is better than High on The Hog or Jubilation.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 07:20:25 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: The Party's Over

Funny stuff Kevin, although it ended up being a dry listening party….good thing too, as some of it had to happen in the car. Back in my bunker now, and just cracked open a Goose Island IPA to ensure the requisite amount of chemically induced typos Just hope that I can finish it before nodding off.

One note about formats, which ended up correlating to some degree with my preferences. I’ve had RCO All Stars on vinyl for years, and picked up a CD version within the past two years. I never actually owned a copy of NLSC until the Capitol 2001 CD Remaster, so I’ve had that one for 14 years, but it’s still one of my “newer” Band CD’s, unlike some of the others which I’ve owned for years in multiple formats. Most of the best songs were available on various box sets and greatest hits offerings, so I was fairly well covered until I became a completist. I purchased the first Robbie Robertson solo album as soon as it was released in 1987. As that was in my more transient days, I only own that album on cassette, and never upgraded it to vinyl or CD.

All three albums have positive things to offer, but in the interest of being objectively subjective, I decided to list a simple Yes or No next to each song title. (If Christgau can get away with a 1 word review of an entire album, I figure a 1 word review of each song borders on extravagant). A “No” designation doesn’t mean it’s “bad”. Just that I don’t connect with the songs as much as the “Yes” votes. A Yes vote doesn’t = perfection, it’s just a measure of my response during a fresh listen. Then I’ll do a quick tally and divide, to come up with a percentage which could fit into a 5 star rating system (Sorry JT). I know it’s not a perfect system, but I thought it could be a fair way to compare in some sort of quantitative way.

Northern Lights Southern Cross
5 Yesses out of 8 = 63% = 3.2 Stars

1 'Forbidden Fruit' No
2 'Hobo Jungle' Yes
3 'Ophelia' Yes
4 'Acadian Driftwood' Yes
5 'Ring Your Bell' No
6 'It Makes No Difference' Yes
7 'Jupiter Hollow' Yes
8 'Rags And Bones' No

Levon Helm And The RCO All Stars
7 Yesses out of 10 = 70% = 3.5 Stars

1 'Washer Woman' Yes
2 'The Tie That Binds' Yes
3 'You Got Me' Yes
4 'Blues So Bad' Yes
5 'Sing, Sing, Sing (Let's Make A Better World)' Yes
6 'Milk Cow Boogie' Yes
7 'Rain Down Tears' No
8 'A Mood I Was In' No
9 'Havana Moon' Yes
10 'That's My Home' No

Robbie Robertson 1987
5 Yesses out of 9 = 56% = 2.8 Stars

1 'Fallen Angel' Yes
2 'Showdown at Big Sky' Yes
3 'Broken Arrow' Yes
4 'Sweet Fire of Love' Yes
5 'American Roulette' No
6 'Somewhere Down the Crazy River' No
7 'Hell's Half Acre' No
8 'Sonny Got Caught in the Moonlight' Yes
9 'Testimony' No

No that I see the results, I’m not so sure about posting them. The numbers actually are meaningless, and no one should have hurt feelings if my numbers don’t agree with yours. On a different day, a song or two here or there could swing the numbers in any direction. Or I could be an imbecile. Looking at it in a positive way, I liked more than half of the material on each album. There are many albums these days that don't even crack 50%. I should do a listening test with Islands, as I suspect that I have a preference for that one similar to Rod’s confession. Heading for the hills now. Or maybe the hammock.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 03:57:04 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

That's it.........I 've been called a lot of things over the years - most true, but never ever - boring ! oh well.....I may retreat full-time to the Deep Purple GB.....at least there, no one disputes that the former lead guitarist was a twat.

in other news, somewhere in Connecticut, Todd's "listenning party" is continuing.....of note, alcohol has been added and his family is keeping a close vigil with instructions as follows:

1.) If he falls out of the hammock at any time - gently inform him that the party is over.

2.) If he emerges screaming that "Talk is Cheap" is better than "Let it Bleed" - let him know he's sleeping downstairs for a month.

3.) If, by any chance , he emerges from this marathon listenning party claiming that RCO is superior to ROA or that RCO is better than NLSC - all are to grab the bags, pets, dishes, knifes and keys and run for the hills ....doctors will be called on the way.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 02:48:49 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.140)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ben: Why on earth are you singling out Pat B? We're ALL boring, which is one of the reasons why there are way more former posters than posters, and more sleepy posters than wide-awake posters at any given time. You fit right in, it should go without saying.

Rod: I'm with you when it comes to the last two OQ albums.

In other news, I've rounded the final turn and am now on CD 6 of the complete BTs. So far I love it - a bit like playing a stack of old 78s you dragged home from Goodwill, and a bit like trying to pull in shortwave stations in the middle of the night, and a bit like Skip Spence's "Oar", and a bit like a pow-wow at Six Nations.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 00:29:02 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Why oh why my lord, could The Band have not just played NL-SC in full on that final tour of 1976......all this unhappiness 38 years later could have been prevented...........those 1/2 filled halls would have been filled, Richard would be alive and happily retired as 7 times speed boating champion of the world, Rick Danko 1977 would have sold 14 million copies and karaoke bars the world over would be singing Java Blues rather than Hotel California...........Garth' would have received $2 Million for TBT rather than $30,000 and .......hold on....in a late breaking news update - after 38 years of RR-Levon bliss, Robertson was just successful in his bid to prevent Levon from using his name in a long forgotten band called "Levon and The Hawks".....all hell is about to break loose.......ah, and The Last Waltz never happenned and so no one ever knew any of this.........and sorry, I'm hungover.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 00:26:19 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

The members of The Band who lived in Woodstock were always involved with local organizations and doing benefits. You don't have to go to the other side of the world and invite Entertainment Tonight to do some good.


Entered at Fri Mar 6 00:20:17 CET 2015 from (219.89.221.66)

Posted by:

Rod

Wallsend, I suspect that would be true of most highly successful people. They can become very single minded in the achievement of their goals. Often that involves stepping on and over people. Doesn't mean they are bad people in every circumstance.

Pat Bs comment about the fued is interesting. I've often wondered if there was more to it than the song writing thing. Maybe that's just a symptom. I also wonder how much the internet has fuelled it and made it take on a life of it's own. Every little comment or minor interview can now reach a huge audience where previously disagreements were dealt with in a more private way. I suspect Richard's death was some sort of trigger.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 23:48:25 CET 2015 from (58.104.19.28)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I admire the guys in the Band for their musical ability but I wouldn't say I respect any of them. I respect people who behave in an ethical way and work to make the world a better place. Lets be honest, there aren't many rock musicians who fall in to that category.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 23:36:18 CET 2015 from (81.107.236.227)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Brum UK

Subject: Love for Levon

Ben - lighten up. Disagreement is healthy - but don't think Levon isn't respected on this site - of course he is. I don't think he has written much music and every member has faults (except Garth of course, let's be realistic) but they all make up The Band.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 22:33:42 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, you do bring up and interesting phenomena. There are "Levon supporters" who believe RR is evil incarnate and that Levon's book is biblical. Then there are people who discovered the story is much deeper and that a lot more was at play than the fued. The original GB fractured because Levon's people could brook nothing that strayed from Levon's book--evidently, if you thought RR had even the slightest case to make, you had to keep it to yourself. There is another thing. RR was fair game for anything. You could come here and say he was a con man, a thief, a Benedict Arnold, anything at all. But many things about Levon were and are considered off-limits.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 22:21:25 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Who's Next?

Pat and I star in “The Historian” – a great book, even better on audio CD. I really feel Ben that you are wrongly demonizing Pat. He isn’t antagonistic. He disagrees with you. Accept it.

OK, we’re on The Who. The Who Sell Out had a kind of a concept. But it was loose and based on adverts. It was not a rock opera with a story line at all. Tommy (and then Quadrophenia, its weak relation) were very special and unusual. You can’t extrapolate from them. Actually I saw The Who live circa The Who Sell Out. I’m tempted to lie about what they played, but honestly all I remember is them refusing to play any of the three early hits very vociferously which led to a violent outburst by Messrs Townsend and Daltrey and a vicious attack on a guy who went up on stage. But in refusing to play the hits maybe they did play it all.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 22:19:25 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Al, give me a little time, let's see If i can buckle down and answer you. Fact is, though your intent is good, there probably is no point in answering the last question, presented without a question mark. But, then again, there's not alot of point in all of use posting here all these years, so i may.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 21:55:22 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, I'm sure Jeff is thrilled that his ridiculous political reference got some traction, but it is his habit to cast aspersions when his logic fails. If I collated all of his name calling over the years, I'd be Vlad the Impaler and Peter V would be my spiritual adviser. BTW, "fascistic"--the actual term he used--doesn't mean fascist according to the author.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 21:28:29 CET 2015 from (219.89.221.66)

Posted by:

Rod

Levon had to play the RCO album as he was trying to sell it and establish himself as a solo artist. He had no other product to sell at that point.

Now I am going to commit heresy and say that I prefer Islands to NLSC. Islands has 3 clangers (Islands, Aint that a lot of love and living in a dream) but I love the rest of the songs - especially Right As Rain. The album just has a more relaxed feel about it than NLSC. Now I am going to run for cover.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 21:03:56 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Pat, are you kidding me. You are probably the most antagonistic person who posts on this GB. You were just recently in a feud with someone here. I believe he called you a "tea party" member and a "fascist". Well if the show fits....

I'm the first person to admit that I may have a minority opinion on this GB. From what I've gathered, many of the other Levon supporters left and went to some private GB. I was never privy to that. I don't live in Woodtsock. I don't claim to be a Band insider. I'm just a fan of The Band 1968-98 and their solo work.

I do have strong opinions about Levon and the way he is spoken about here. So, when people like you disparage his character and misrepresent his statements, I will respond. The fact is none of us were there when the songs were written. Three members of the Band are dead, so unless Garth speaks up, we are left with Levon's version and Robbie's version. In my view, the "truth" lies somewhere between the two.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 20:20:13 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, two. This may come as a shock, but most people can hold two thoughts at once time. Last I counted over the last few days, you were arguing with five posters, maybe more (I didn't really count. I guessed).

It's neither my fault nor surprising that your assumptions about me are in error. You'll notice in a previous post that I referred to the last three albums--Jericho, HoTH, and BFB--none of which were performed in their entirety. I guess you missed that before you wanted me to swear to their existence.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 20:01:58 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, your point of contention was that the Band must not have liked NLSC, first because they didn't play the songs live and now because they didn't play it in its entirety. Since they never played any of their albums in their entirety, and since by the end of the 76 tour the NLSC era songs made up the largest percentage of performed songs, blah blah, blah.

RCO was a huge disappointment for me at the time. I guess I just expected more. Icertainly would have gone to see them but they never played Chicago as far as I can recall. I have the vinyl stored away somewhere. This contretemps has one benefit--I discovered further explanation of the 1983 syndrome on page 272 of Levon's book.

Al, I apologize.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 19:59:49 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Pat, how many people on this GB are you currently having an argument with? You must be be a member of mensa in order to keep all of the different threads straight.

Which 3 Band albums are you referring to? Please enlighten us? From your previous posts, I thought you were a flat earth society member who believed that the Band ended with The last waltz.

Are you willing to acknowledge that the Band reformed, replaced Robbie Robertson and released 3 albums in 1990's. If so, then that's great progress. There may be some hope for you yet.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 19:13:58 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Jeff...and Pat I guess.

Jeff - I'd be telling porkies if I said that the decline of analog which the remorseless swamping of it by digital has brought about has distressed me. It honestly hasn't. Fact is I’m a simple soul and have never remotely embraced the technical side of either beyond plugging in and hoping for the best.

As regards the broader – perhaps even moralistic - implications. Well suffice to say I’ve merely only ever gone along with the trends like the very worst kind of unquestioning sheep/ram or whatever the feck I'd be with a thick wooly coat.

I think, however, I do see, from what you have so passionatly highlighted, the very genuine concerns you have about the wider implications for the entire musical industry. And from any sort of purist perspective that holds so precious the analog side of things it must be extremely alarming and the erosion of the more sophisticated studio technical skills does seem to be a real worry.

Regarding the thing you and Pat have going. It’s your business. Seems fuckin crazy to me but what do I know. Is it a Robbie/levon thing fanned by Pat’s embracing of the digital technology and your devotion to analog. You tell me. Returning to the GB though in this brief window I’ve managed to fashion it’s been a real bummer to see you two sniping – two guys I’ve admired for so long.

Still. Shit happens I guess. In fact, we’ve got something akin to it in our life just now and sometimes it’s just seems kind of inevitable.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 19:10:48 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

ben

Location: New Jersey

Peter, I'm well aware that 'Tommy' and 'Quadrophenia' were concept albums. So was 'The Who Sell Out' and I don't believe that the Who played that album in its entirety in 1967. The point I'm making for the umpteenth time is that in order to play a new album in its entirety or near-entirety, than the band must believe strongly in the album. Can we agree on this?

I don't want to belabor the point, but it seems to me that when Levon went on his first solo tour with the RCO's, he could have very easily taken the path of least resistance and played a show full of Band songs. The audience would have probably prefered it. I have to think that Butterfield and Dr. John who played with the Band at TLW, would have been happy to go along with that. But, he went out and played the RCO album nearly in its entirety. If you haven't heard it, I would urge you to listen to their live album. This is a fiery, funky album. I'd put it right up there with 'Rock of Ages'.

Nice to see some love for Rick's solo album. It's a shame that it's out of print in CD. I would rate this as one of the best Band related albums. It's too bad that this album didn't sell when it was released.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 19:08:19 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, that's quite a cop-out. We can all rest easy now knowing that The Band didn't like their last three albums--at least according to Ben-logic. And Jeff, did you ever release anything on CD?


Entered at Thu Mar 5 18:41:58 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

If I may, both Tommy and Quadrophenia were concept albums or rock operas. They had a continuing story, thus a tour was advertised in that light, and they played them all. It's recently a popular concept- Steeleye Span, Astral weeks, Asia etc all have done "complete album" tours - there are many more. But it's a new idea and always based on a classic album.

I can't recall whether we were arguing that solo artist albums were better or worse than the group they left, but Natalie Merchant is "better" than 10,000 Maniacs. Van Morrison is "better" than Them. There must be lots. On the other hand you have Grace Slick and Paul Kantner.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 18:31:12 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Dunc, as you're aware, digital error may reduce masterpieces to the crapper.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 18:22:37 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

It's cold and snowing in NJ. We're supposed to get 6-10 inches of snow. Hopefully, this will be it for the season.

Pat, this is getting tiring. You are very selective in the "facts" that you consider. Apparently, when someone disagrees with you their facts are wrong. But, every point that you make should be taken as the gospel truth and not questioned. Very interesting.

The comments I made about The Who are entirely relevant. I provided examples of a band with a large catalogue, playing their new album nearly in its entirety on their tour. This is a contrast to what The Band did in 1976.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 18:15:12 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Thanks for going easy on me P.

:-0)


Entered at Thu Mar 5 18:10:52 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Ken's Dodd's Dad's dog lost its nose.

How does it smell?

Fecking awful.

I reckon that one's 19th century. Possibly early 20th.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 18:00:27 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Not good but the best I can do

A mate of mine just came up to me in the street. He had a CD in one hand and a vinyl album in the other.

He first waved the CD in me gob and said "well, d'you dig it Al?"

Then he waved the vinyl album and said to me " tell me you prefer this an al log it down"

I told him to feck off with his shite puns.

"Almost as bad as Pete Viney's" I said - in the gruffest voice I could muster.

As he walked away he shouted " by the way Al, did yer know Ken Dodd's dad's dog's dead?"

I said "...Never!"

He said "yeah - swallowed an Alice Cooper CD"

"Digital poisoning thee reckon"


Entered at Thu Mar 5 17:55:16 CET 2015 from (74.203.77.122)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC
Web: My link

Subject: Staples Singers

Adam, thanks for the heads-up on the Staple Singers' Freedom Highway Live CD release! John Donabie posted here about the album's CD unavailability long, long ago and I've always been interested to hear it. Sound samples are incredible.

Also, note to all, Pops Staples' final album has been released on Anti Records. He sounds wonderful, and Mavis is all over the recordings; well worth checking out.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 17:54:02 CET 2015 from (86.183.247.239)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Todd and Technology

Thank God Todd. That's cleared it up for me.

Technology:I remember my friend worked all summer and bought an Akai Reel to Reel. The bees' knees!

I wonder if he still uses it.

I had difficulty switching on the telly, early morning to get the news at my son's house, while babysitting. What remote do you use first?

And since train toilets have moved from analogue to digital, be careful that the door does not fly open, as I've seen several times now.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 17:49:17 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Haulin' Oats

Hall & Oates were so dire when I saw them last year they should be grateful that anyone remembers them. Time for another Cherry Garcia.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 17:38:24 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Haulin Oats lawsuit linked..

Pete, it's clear that digital tools are far from limited to the recording method. Social media is one example.



Entered at Thu Mar 5 17:20:52 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff

geez, that was meant to be Pete, in your case, if ever faced with the decision....


Entered at Thu Mar 5 17:18:51 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat. I'll if ever faced with the decision, i'll let my eyes turn yellow.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 17:04:28 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, no one is arguing that RCO didn't play their album. But since you can't produce set lists from ten shows, I guess will never know if that continued. And since you've chosen to ignore every other salient fact, why continue?

As far as your silly reference to the Who, just apply your own logic to Jericho, or HoTH, or BFB. Did those albums get played in full live? By your logic, they must have hated those CD's.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 16:19:58 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Al, if it’s feckin’ freezing’ best to bung AN other LOG on the fire.

People have all sorts of preferences. Wasn’t it Mercury Rev who recorded on the analogue strip on 35 mm film stock? But tools are tools. Give me a chisel and I’ll probably cut my thumb off. Give Michelangelo a chisel and he creates the statue of David (though rumour has it that David was originally better hung, but the chisel slipped).

Al may help here. The words “digital” and “tool” in the hands of Ken Dodd should generate at least half a dozen dirty jokes, but I can’t think of any. But I’d rather use my tool that just be digital.

Jeff, you’ve got to watch out. It could be Tenn has access to the brilliant stuff you’ve written but not posted.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 15:28:12 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Another issue Al, is that younger engineers don't get the chance to develop great analogue chops anymore. There is alot more to working analogue, than there is to working digitally.

Editing wise, if you are going to do a lot, i will agree, it makes more sense to do it digitally. It doesn't mean i would. But, take away a heavy amount of edits, even in a simple session, there is much more to do working analogue. Young engineers may not get the chance to develop the skills properly. Also, speaking from various experiences, younger engineers may not even have the mindset and attention spans to want to learn it properly. However, i've met a good amount of younger engineers who have no problem speaking right up and saying they prefer the sound of analogue tape recording to digital.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 15:16:58 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: Solo Work

Kevin J., I get the general point that you were making about solo work not always matching up to work created during the classic years of great bands. However, I would add Keith Richards 'Talk Is Cheap' album as one of the great albums that showed that Richards still had plenty to say and play. Still one of my favorites from that era.

I know that you already relented re: Pete Townsend, but I'll also cast a vote for 'Empty Glass' as a great album with many worthy songs.

Note to self: If I'm ever on fire in the vicinity of Jeff or Pat, I will make sure to have a supply of fresh water at the ready.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 14:54:29 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Al, analogue recording is making a slow but steady comeback. What it is now battling is not as much the incorrect belief that digital recording sounds as good. The fact that the economic environment is so non supportive of music in general is a greater, bigger hindrance. When people cant afford car insurance, it's kind of moot if they will buy a compact economy car, or a big, comfortable, safer, gas guzzler. When they have the money for insurance, but are scraping by, they usually go for the least expensive, most economical transportation. Give people unlimited options, well, ...Take away the restrictions and also environmental consequences, people's choices change.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 14:44:58 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat, i should add, and i too mean this sincerely, that having the best years of your professional life is admirable, and good. I'd prefer you were thriving in a analogue world, but, despite that, and that it's questionable if either of us would piss on the other if they were on fire, i think it's good that you are doing well.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 14:37:46 CET 2015 from (173.3.50.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Pork

Quick! Look up in the sky, you might still catch a glimpse of pigs flying. It might not be appreciated by newcomers, but, believe me, pigs flew last night.
BWNWITenns post is correct. Mind you, his line "The bottom line is the tech industry is raping the music industry. Just like the tech industry is raping, or will soon rape, virtually every other industry out there. Just like all good monopolies do, since time immemorial." points to a point i had written, but not posted, was saving for when i could develop it more.. Pat, your argument, that I'll once more say has naught to do with the creation of great music, incorporates your use of the term, digital tools.... and using digital tools to make a career. Digital tools are many things. Just one of which, is a movie making program. You Tube, another enemy of true musical artists and any publishing entity, is also a digital tool. So, i guess you are tipping your hat to Justin Bieber and others of his ilk, and to You tube, and all the people who work at those companies. They have built careers by learning how to use digital tools. Regardless of how they are all contributing to the decimation of careers, culture, society, and industries... Tenns post is coincidental too. Just before calling it a day, I wrote (with typos. now corrected) :
Pat, there's always those who benefit when most take a hit. Look at how the streaming companies are making out. and the labels too, benefiting from making deals with & buying into streaming companies while selling out their artists.
There's lots of ways to make money with digital tools. But i don't think many of them have resulted in perfect albums..Which is where this conversation was when you diverted it.
Separately, & connected too, not many long distance love affairs work out. but there are musicians who have found ways to earn overdub and collaborative income working long distance. It certainly dampens & simultaneously parches the creative process, but it does happen. Fact is, it eliminates a lot of great interaction that could result in far more great music being created. It also changes & restricts the path of the collaborative effort. Just look at how Dylan makes records. Once upon a time, similar, but usually far less extravagant situations, were available to many bands, many artists. Today, hah! People are luck to come up with the money to record at all, even on hurried, stringent, restrictive budgets, in possibly nonsympathetic atmospheres.
Then i left my thoughts to add to today..

Once more, a key to this argument you;ve begun Pat, is your use of the term digital tools. Digital tools might have zip, zilch, nada, to do with music, especially perfect or superb albums. Remember too Pat, if not for digital interference, which Pro tools can be considered part of, you would not have needed Pro tools. Which you say was key to your reinvention.
I don't know about industrial work drying up....it seems to be doing quite well. Commercials, jingles, took a hit, but I don't think commercial music ( not meaning the music used in commercial, but eaning other kinds of music) has.

There's tons more, best to return to another time.
But yes, the world changes. Adaptation becomes necessary. change is inevitable, but it is not necessarily good. Adaptation is necessary. Yes, people have to breathe through a gas mask when poison gas is released into the atmosphere.
Jerry, i hope to return to the developing actual discussion at some point.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 14:33:03 CET 2015 from (70.54.130.89)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: That's how you do it.

Todd: That is how you do it. Side by side; back to back; I wish I had the time. I love a voice of reason.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 14:23:28 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Todd - ha ha -but just to confuse things further - tee hee

I believe it was pretty damn cold in old Jersey as well Tenn.

Me? I'm freezin all the feckin time. Global warming my arsehole.

Feckin weather huh. No wonder analogue's layin low these days.

:-0)


Entered at Thu Mar 5 14:11:08 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: Spike Jones On The Box

In a little while, I will post the results of my NLSC - RCO listening party from the other evening. To be honest, it wasn't much of a party, since I was the only one there, and no drinks were served. As a bonus, I also pulled out Robbie Robertson 1987 yesterday, and gave that a full listen for the first time in years. Then to calm my nerves and get back to a solid baseline, I listened to Brown, Pink, and Rock of Ages in full yesterday.

I haven't read every single word of every post, but I think I can summarize the Pat B. and Ben from NJ standoff.
Pat prefers NLSC and feels The Band represented it appropriately in their 1976 live shows. Ben prefers RCO All Stars, and feels that it was better represented in the 1977 RCO shows.
Bill M is somewhat interested, but feels he could use a power nap.

In other discussion, Pat B. prefers digital. Jeff A. prefers analog.

I'll be back in a while with my own subjectively objective analysis.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 13:40:12 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Just to confuse things, the RCO All-Stars did Ophelia from NLSC in their live act and Ain’t That A Lot of Love from Islands. Live they did it better than The Band did in the studio, but The Band’s version is poor compared to Homer Banks, the Flying Burrito Brothers or Spencer Davis Group’s rewrite (or steal).

Strategically, a band with half a dozen albums playing ALL the new one is a really bad idea, as many of the audience wll have come to see the “hits”. A third of the set is the most an ESTABLISHED band should normally do, though The Unthanks did a lot more last week AND got away with it. But they’re known for doing that.

However, in the RCO case, they had united from disparate paths to make this album, and several songs were known anyway. They only had the one album. So it was logical to play more.

But I kinda think the discussion must have reached "we agree to disagree."


Entered at Thu Mar 5 13:30:41 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: The Young tradition

Something was lurking in my mind, so I sought out the diary. I saw The Young Tradition again in Hull later and noted "STILL rubbish. Boring. Watched the crowd instead which was funny."

This means I was (a) a harsh critic (b) cloth-eared. Maybe little has changed.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 13:27:07 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

When Levon and the RCO all stars toured in 1977, the easy thing would have been for them to play a substantial number of Band songs. The fact is, they didn't so that. They played nearly the entire RCO album. That is the point I'm making.

The RCO All Stars was not a band with unknown musicians, who had only one album in their repertoire. Quite the contrary, they had Helm, Paul Butterfield and Dr. John. These are three headliners, with large back catologues to draw from. They could have easily done that and relied on Band, Butterfield and Dr. John songs for their entire set. The fact is, they played nearly the entire RCO album, which indicates that they believed in the album strongly.

If the Band really believed strongly in NLSC, they would have played nearly the entire album through the whole tour. In contrast, when The Who toured behind 'Topmmy' in 1969 and 'Quadrophenia' in 1973, they played nearly the entire new album and dropped many older songs form their setlist. That's what band's with a back catologue do when they strongly believe in their new album. And when The Band reformed in 1983, they only played 2 songs from NL-SC.

Pat, these are facts. You can try to manipulate them any way you like, when you compare the Band tour of 76 and the RCO tour of 77, there is no question that songs from the RCO album was played far more than songs from NL-SC.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 12:18:07 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The Letterman show segment is great TV. It was wonderful when he walked backstage - a moment that might have inspired the entire Birdman movie filming style!

Dylan played The Troubadour? Wow. Paul Simon did often. It was a favorite haunt of mine - upstairs was just a café. Looking back at some old diaries I saw "Young Tradition. Troubadour. Boring." Fifty years on, I love The Young Tradition and Peter Bellamy's work with them and after them. I have zero recollection of seeing them ever, which is sad. The evening I recall most at The Troubadour was 1970. I'd been to a lecture by a Russian film director who'd studied under Eisenstein, and it turned out I was the only one there who'd seen any films by Eisenstein. We went on to a pub then to the Troubadour, by which time he was unfortunately the worse for wear and shouting Fuck Kruschev! Fuck Stalin! etc and throwing glasses about. Some of this didn't go down down well with the surviving folkies. It was a lot of fun. Memorable evening among many there.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 06:29:57 CET 2015 from (72.154.11.22)

Posted by:

BWNWITenn

Part of the reason ASCAP has been collecting record income the last few years is because they get paid for interactive streaming, such as Spotify, unlike with traditional sales of CDs and downloads. But the increase in performance income paid by Spotify doesn't offset the decrease in mechanical income from Spotify's cannibalization of traditional sales. So the fact that ASCAP is paying well doesn't = the publishing/songwriting industry is doing well. That's kind of like denying global warming because there were record cold temperatures in New Jersey this winter. The bottom line is the tech industry is raping the music industry. Just like the tech industry is raping, or will soon rape, virtually every other industry out there. Just like all good monopolies do, since time immemorial.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 05:28:50 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Quite true, Jeff. When the commercial and industrial part of the business dried up, I luckily reinvented myself and had the best years of my professional life. I mean that sincerely. I consider myself very lucky, although when a break presented itself, I was able to take advantage. And I couldn't have done it without ProTools.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 05:15:41 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, I'm sure you understand that the RCO group had one album out, so of course they could only play that one album, plus a few songs as recorded by the Band. And you know that a group that has been together for quite a while and has recorded five albums of original material will play selections from all five albums. And you know that despite your theory that they weren't interested in performing NLSC, they played the songs from it a lot--by the time they became comfortable playing the songs live, it became a majority of their show compared to their other albums. Since you seem to be a stickler for the absolute power of numbers, perhaps you should collate ten RCO shows and see if more Band songs filtered in. Was RCO still playing 9 songs from their first album in concert after they had released four more albums?


Entered at Thu Mar 5 03:25:03 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Gee

Gee Pat. Some one has always made a living with music. It's not what the conversation was about. But we could stretch that someone is making a living a music a lot of ways. .Right down to the person who answers the phones and does the filing at the music libraries... Making a living with music sure means alot of things, as well you know... and as you well know. ...........from part of your own experience, the commercial and industrial music part, you know that's lessened alot. You even referred to it in here years back.

More & more people clearly make less & less a living from music all the time. And what passes as music and what sells changes more & more and gets less musical as time goes by. And so many people just go on to other things. But, no one has ever denied that "someone is making a living with music."



Entered at Thu Mar 5 03:20:17 CET 2015 from (58.104.24.121)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

The link is to The Letterman Show when Levon didn't turn up - quite funny.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 02:29:33 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Kevin

That's great! To funny. I'm going to watch Justified now.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 02:26:30 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Pat, I'm quite touched by your concern for my attire, but I can assure you that my pants are pulled up.

I couldn't care less if I'm the only person who reads this GB that prefers RCO to NL-SC. The facts are that more songs from the RCO album were played on their tour, then the Band played from NL-SC in '76. Those are facts. But you seem incapable of acknowledging this. Whether The Band played 3 or 6 songs from NLSC in '76, that is no match for the RCO tour where 7 to 9 songs from their album were played.

Do you have the ability to count higher than 6 or do I need to finds another way to explain this to you?


Entered at Thu Mar 5 02:23:48 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

.......and a frying pan !


Entered at Thu Mar 5 02:15:22 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Kevin, Double Fantasy " is a masterpiece - timeless and perfect from beginning to end.......people will be meditating to it, making love with it and just enjoying it 100 years from now......…"


Entered at Thu Mar 5 02:15:17 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

......in about 3 hours, I might need help flown in to help with future posts to Bob........whoever it is, bring apostrophes.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 02:00:11 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Subject: "New Mexicoe"

Amazing Rick solo track. Listen to the alternate version on "CRYIN' HEART BLUES", with Clapton, Ron Wood and Pete Townshend. And notice that Clapton's guitar, right channel, plays exactly the same notes featured on the album version. I think they flew in, and edited, Clapton's lead from the drunken early version.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 01:57:17 CET 2015 from (99.16.133.205)

Posted by:

Adam

Epic/Legacy has finally reissued The Staple Singers' "FREEDOM HIGHWAY" live album from 1965, recorded in a Chicago church. Remastered, remixed, expanded, essential!!!


Entered at Thu Mar 5 01:43:48 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Bob F

Oh my ! ........and Al Pacino was awarded an Oscar for "Scent of a Women".....not The Godfather roles!....thank God, at least in his case he didn't have to be assassinated to win his sympathy vote.......In this case, you are far too smart to play the Grammy card......awards far more useless and unrepresentative than even the Acadamy Awards.......I hadn't noticed Clapton's nod to Robbie on "New Mexicoe" before.......Your interfering with my drinking Bob !


Entered at Thu Mar 5 01:37:40 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan's first visit to London (1962-1963)

Norbet, I have done a fair amount of research on Dylan's first visit to London over the years. So far, it has yielded two quite lengthy articles in ISIS, a Dylan fanzine. I was also a consultant to the BBC documentary about that visit, "Dylan In THe Madhouse", the one mentioned in connection with Anthony Wall and at the end.

The article you linked has a number of factual errors. Just to pick out a few: Dylan did not arrive in the UK until nearer mid-December (not mid-November); his air fare was paid by the BBC; and Colletts folk shop was in New Oxford Street at that time, not on Tottenham Court Road.

As it happens, three viewers made recordings of Dylan's appearance in the TV play, not just Hans Fried, who I have known for quite a long time. In fact, well before Scorsese's "No Direction Home" or Anthony Wall's "Dylan In The Madhouse" documentary, Hans gave me his original reel of that recording, which I still have.

The two articles I have written so far cover: (1) the relevant events prior to recording the play, starting in New York in August 1962 and covering the rehearsals, which took place in a hall in Putney [where he wrote "Masters of War" incidentally, prompted by the newspaper reports of the Kennedy-Macmillan negotiations on Polaris] and (2) Dylan's likely contribution to the play, the various versions of the script and a comparison between the three (slightly different) recordings made by viewers.

If I get the time and the inclination, I may write another piece, this time about whom he met, where he went and what he did during his visit here (and his few days in Rome).

I also think that the Dobell's recording session with Eric Von Schmidt and Richard Farina and the subsequent LP release has enough content to warrant an article in its own right. But it is all a question of time. We shall see.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 01:19:17 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, caught with the pants down, so mazel tov? Brilliant. So ignore the two shows where they did five out of 16. Ignore the show where they did 5 out of 19. Ignore the fact that as the tour progressed they played more new material--maybe someone made them rehearse? Ignore the fact that at the Philly show, NLSC era was the most represented album. Ignore the fact that at the Palladium, 5 of the 16 were from NLSC era, as many as Brown and as many as Cahoots and BP combined. Willfully ignore the fact that they played 1 in 4 new songs the entire tour.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 01:18:05 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Reality

Kevin, Double Fantasy, contains several other very good songs including Woman, Starting Over and Beautiful Boy. It sold millions and won the Grammy for Album of The Year.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 00:58:27 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: Rick Danko "New Mexicoe" from his 1977 album Rick Danko..........what a beautiful spirit......pour yourself a drink and sit back and listen to this.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 00:49:36 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Bob F: I specifically excluded Paul McCartney from the discussion.....obvious the number of great songs post Beatles.....you must have misinterpreted......you are forgiven though as I jumbled a few ideas in that post - one of them being that voices matter and had Ringo written Maybe I'm Amazed and sung it , it most certainly would not have reached the transcendent heights it did with Paul's vocals......"New Mexicoe" is great and lovely all due to Rick's singing.........Of course, Robbie solo sounds unBand like, he didn't sing any of The Band's songs for crying out loud !

My point on Lennon's albums 10 years after Beatles split and Davies 10 years after Kinks, etc, stand.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 00:48:57 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Pat, Mazel tov. You found one show where the Band played 6 songs from NL-SC. As I've pointed out, there were several shows where they played 3 or 4. In contrast, The RCO All stars played at least 7 songs and as many as 9 songs from their album on their tour the following year. Those are facts, whether you like them or not.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 00:30:35 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: So not true Kevin

Kev, you can't be serious. Paul McCartney has so many great solo songs that it's just silly to even have the discussion. As far as John Lennon is concerned, like Michael Jordan he would have worked away the rust, got his legs back and won a bunch more championships. You have to be having some fun with me. Your way to smart to think other wise. Your probably right about the rest.


Entered at Thu Mar 5 00:24:19 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Ben......granted on Pete Townsend. Actually a good example of how you might as well stick a fork in a band when the leaders start thinking about solo albums......Pete was obviously hiding away some good ones for himself..........Say this for Robbie......he tossed some gems into The Band's catelogue in the dying months with "Out of the Blue" and "Evalgaline" at a time when no one much cared.........The later became a staple of Levon's for the rest of his life...........Take 3 or 4 from Rick's solo 1977 album, and mix in "Out of the Blue", "Evangaline", "Between Trains" and perhaps some of the Levon covers you love from that period and the makings of a classic album is upon us !


Entered at Thu Mar 5 00:17:59 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

No gee, Jeff, it proves someone is making a living with music. Is that not obvious?


Entered at Thu Mar 5 00:00:47 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Oh gee. Pat & the amount of ASCAP payouts just provided the defintive answer to all the discussions.
Just a thought... Jerry T, there ya go. Look up ASCAPs top earners last year, and see if you find that they released a whole pile of new, perfect recordings between 2010 & 2015. Using digital tools to build a career apparently has become the suggested path of choice amongst some as the way to create perfect records.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 23:52:30 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, everything I wrote was a fact. I used the ten complete shows that are in the tape library on site. Here, let me help. Date: 9/17/76 Performer: Band Location: Philadelphia, PA, The Spectrum. 6 of 18, new. Enjoy.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 23:37:55 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Kevin J, I disagree with your comment regarding Pete Townshend. I think his solo work with the exception of 'Iron Man' was very strong. Have you listened to 'Empty Glass', 'Chinese Eyes' and 'White City'? IMHO, these albums are far better than 'Face Dances' and 'It's Hard'.

Bill, Spirit was a great band. 'Potatoland' and Randy's 'Kapt. Kopter' are also great albums.

Pat, I don't own any axes. I based my comments on the number of NL-SC songs played in '76 on the set lists in the tape archive section of this website. I don't recall seeing any show where there were 6 songs played. I saw several where there were 3 or 4 played out of a 17 or 18 song set. I did make an error regarding the RCO All Stars. The live cd from New Year's eve has 7 songs from their album. Their's a show listed in the tape archive from 12/29/77 that has 9 songs from their album. Are you going to respond by claiming that their was a secret set of shows in '76 in which every song from NL-SC was played?


Entered at Wed Mar 4 23:08:57 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

ASCAP brought in over a billion dollars last year and paid out over 80% of that. Some artists are doing quite well, just not the ones some here like. Jan's son is a good example of an artist who figured some things out and used digital tools to make a career.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 22:45:09 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Jeff, tape adds noise and distortion. Controlling the amount was part of the process. It is now much easier to control the amount digitally.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 22:40:11 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat, your position on tape and digital is yours. Welcome to it. Of course, there are those who have opinions similar. I enjoyed the time about a month or two back, in another discussion, you wrote that you could approximate something that was great about analogue on digital. The real thing is so easily available. And better. There are other engineers, other producers, T Bone Burnett for example, whose has positions and opinions that are very similar to mine. And would not insist that analogue is distorted ( they , like me, might be quite intolerant of digital error however) When i linked t bones interview here, without getting into detail then, or now, i pointed to some of what he said that linked to some things i 've been writing about digital recording and the impact it & digital media have had on the industry since i started writing here in 2002. I also pointed out that now that the industry is where it is, and noone can lose much more than they have, and so many people are speaking out about so many things, more & more name artists and producers are finally speakign their mind about digital recording. That said, i;ve never been very fond of a lot of T Bone's work. I certainly dislike his BT poject, and though i enjoy & admire Rhiannon Giddens talent, work, and voice, i think the version of that song involving her ridiculous and way too over produced.

Jerry T, you had asked about perfect or superb albums between 2010 & 2015. One of the main reasons you won't get many examples is because of the numerous adverse effects the digital world has had ever since the music industry let it in. The effects have impacted artistry tremendously, and how artists develop and how artists work, live, even think, tremendously..there is so much more..........If i have a few days to spend, or even a few hours, hell a half hour to spend, i might attempt to give you a partially thought out, developed response.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 22:09:24 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Sure, if you want the distortion that tape provides, use it. There are plenty of plug-ins that do the same thing. btw, Jeff, that's a great link. Very interesting. They should have interviewed Ed Cherney, Don Was's preferred engineer.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 22:04:47 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, by the end of the tour they were playing as many as 6 new songs a night. One of every four songs they played on the entire tour were new. They had shows where one of every three songs were new. That's the facts, not your ax-grinding opinion. Sorry.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 22:00:27 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.149)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ben: We also agree on the brilliance of Dr Sardonicus. Every song. In the notorious speech of a few weeks ago, Dylan mentioned meeting Hendrix when Hendrix was in the Blue Flames - a group he shared with John Hammond Jr and the guy we came to know as Randy California.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 21:55:02 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Editing. Digital is great for editing. And as the interviewee & articles point out, Dylan is still writing and structuring his songs in the studio, with the band. so, there's the draw.The interviewer pointed that out. I agree, digital is great for editing, though i still dislike it.

Still the devil. Though...if you have reason to believe you need to save time...& prefer tape, one can: record on tape. Then, if you've alot of vocal or other comping, dump into protools to comp. Mix back to tape. A lot of the studios that still prefer tape are doing that frequently.



Entered at Wed Mar 4 21:53:26 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Carmen & Todd: Both of you have made note of "She's Not Mine" and I agree completely......along with the title track and "The Right Mistake", it is a favourite on HTBC........what is fascinating about RR solo recordings is how we can all cast Rick, Richard and Levon to certain songs, while others like SDTCR or Showdown seem just right with Robbie doing the singing...........could anyone play "Won't be Back" and not immediatly think of Richard..............would Rick Danko have put "Broken Arrow" into outer space.......with McCartney ( "Maybe I'm Amazed" ) or Lennon's ( "Imagine" ) or Ray Davies ( none ) or Townsend ( none ) or Jimmy Page/Plant ( none ) or Jagger/Richards ( none ) or Paul Westerberg ( none ) and with Rick Danko and a song like "New Mexicoe" - they work instantly and beautifully because of voice........Imagine If Ringo had been given Maybe I'm Amazed ?

The "none" in brackets above refers to the number of great songs the respective driving forces and principle songwriters in the mega bands The Kinks, The Who, Led Zep and The Rolling Stones have written without their bands.........and for Bob F, do note and compare John Lennon's output/comeback 10 years after the Beatles break-up ( Double Fantasy and Milk & Honey ) which yielded one decent song ( "Watching the Wheels", possibly two with "Dear Yoko" if several beers have been consumed ) and the quality of songs Robbie wrote coming back as he did 10 years after the Band split.....No contest.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 21:48:09 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Pat, I absolutely stand by my post comparing the RCO All stars performing 7 songs from their album and The Band performing 3 or 4 from NL-SC in '76. What part of this do you find confusing? These are facts

IMHO, it would have been very easy for the RCO all stars to rely on Band, Butterfield and Dr. John songs for the bulk of there set, but they didn't. They played most of their album. Clearly the Band did not feel the same way about NL-SC on the 76 tour.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 21:37:50 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Tut, tut, Jeff. A quote from Dylan 20 years ago. Here's how he thinks today: I said, ‘Y’know, since this is just a one-off, it’s not for an album, I wouldn’t mind trying Pro Tools, just so I can show you the benefits.’ He said, ‘Okay, whatever.’ We did a take, and he was like, ‘Okay, I want to edit out the second verse and put the fourth verse in there.’ By the time he walked into the control room from the studio, I had it done. His eyes opened wide. ‘You can edit that fast?’ ‘Yeah.’ ‘And you can keep everything?’ You could just see the gears in his head suddenly spinning. Thing is, now he’s gotten so used to the speed of that, when we were doing Modern Times, he was actually getting impatient with the machine.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 21:37:15 CET 2015 from (86.183.247.239)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Wallsend

Couldn't agree more. Thanks.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 21:32:00 CET 2015 from (87.144.171.127)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: Dylan's first TV?

Article: Dylan's BBC 'Madhouse on Castle Street' 13 January, 1963......


Entered at Wed Mar 4 21:25:29 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

And Ben, did you really want to make an argument over how many songs from the first RCO album the RCO group performed as opposed to the set list of a group that had been recording for 8 years? Really?


Entered at Wed Mar 4 21:20:59 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, luckily you don't have to "think". When the 76 tour began, they usually did 3 new songs a show. By the last half of the tour they were performing 5 to 6 new songs a show. Even with the slow start, 25% of the songs they performed on the entire tour were new. For a group with 6 albums under their belt, that's impressive.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 21:18:07 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: DYLAN ON DIGITAL.

Micajah Ryan : “He’d come in each day with at least a couple of songs to work on. He’d do several takes in every key and tempo until he felt he got it. He was rarely conversational with me. But I remember him being concerned with the difference between analogue and digital, how digital recording was ruining modern music."


Entered at Wed Mar 4 20:57:31 CET 2015 from (173.3.51.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Dylan

Has this been posted / linked here yet? Life with Bob, 89 - 06


Entered at Wed Mar 4 20:56:21 CET 2015 from (58.104.4.224)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Dunc, I think you left a few things off your list: all the Dylan stuff plus TLW - the greatest movie ever made (I don't know why people tend to qualify this last statement by putting 'concert' or 'rock' in front of 'movie').


Entered at Wed Mar 4 20:30:38 CET 2015 from (74.43.18.162)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: RR Solo

I don't think it is fair to compare the RR solo releases with the BAND but compare his stuff to what others were putting out at that time and I think they stand up. The songs Kevin mentions plus Between Trains and Shes Not Mine are all fantastic songs that will be played on mature radio stations like XPN for years to come right next to BAND songs.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 19:20:17 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

John D: Thank you and on the subject of books.......I truly hope that you do decide to write one........all this talk of albums makes me very nostalgic for that era when FM radio was such an exciting and important part of our lives........68-81.....few people were at the centre of it in Canada the way you were..............I only really joined in the magic ( as a listener ) by mid 70's and my older brother still claims I missed all the good parts but a book that traces the times, the music, the personalities ( on both sides of the dial ) is one I for one would really want to read......would also make for a great multi-part tv show - much like the Yonge Street chronicles of some years back.

"Music For Native Americans" is a masterpiece - timeless and perfect from beginning to end.......people will be meditating to it, making love with it and just enjoying it 100 years from now.........Storyville is also great - every song.......the 1987 album while it has the U2 clunkers, it also contained great songs like "Sonny Got Caught by the Moonlight", "Somewhere Down the Crazy River", "Fallen Angel", "Showdown at Big Sky" and "Broken Arrow".........re-think about the diversity of those 5 songs.......it is called songwriting.........I still remember fall of 1987 and hearing "Showdown at Big Sky" come on the radio.....It was like nothing I had ever heard before......suddenly the gluck of Bon Jovi and Whitesnake and all the other rock of the day crap was washed away.....The Band was back - at least traces of it. I love that song to this day and it most definitly would be on any desert island I go to.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 19:15:54 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Pat, you remedial math skills are sorely lacking. The Band did not typically play 5 songs from NL-SC on the 76 tour. I think it was generally 3 or 4, and out of a 17 or 18 song set, that's not that impressive.

By contrast, the Rco All Stars live album, contains 7 tracks from their studio album. That says to me that they believed in the album far more than the Band believed in NLSC on the 76 tour. The RCo's could have easily relied on Band, Butterfield and Dr. John songs for the bulk of their set, but they didn't. They played the majority of their album and mixed in a few covers and songs associated with Levon and Butterfield.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 18:44:22 CET 2015 from (70.54.130.89)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Reformation

The reformed Band was great. I already talked about the concert I saw at Convocation Hall at the UofT with Colin Linden in the band. That was one of the best concerts I have ever heard. Not only did they know what they had... they had it!


Entered at Wed Mar 4 18:36:34 CET 2015 from (71.43.124.98)

Posted by:

Dan

Storyville always sounds like it could have ben the Band. On Storyville there is a song that goes "don't let the rapture pass you by" that I believe Robbie stated that he had wanted Rick's vocal but had to go with Neil Young as another example of that "high Canadian sound." I thought about that watching on cable last night Neil Young's Heart of Gold in Nashville with Emmilou Harris and a host of others thinking that it could have as easily been Rick Danko singing and performing such an acoustic filmed concert... How this relates: The Band were such a real band that the OQ never really escaped it, much like some actors from great sitcoms that were typecast and did not have cable outlets to go to build up followings. Al is right- Big Pink and Brown Album stand by themselves. I love NLSC - remember buying the tape at Modells many years ago and always enjoying it, but not at the collective genius and affinity of first two. Definitely all essential for the greatness of first two, but Robbie is the predominate writer and Richard gets credit for when he was writing. Think the tension is not really over writing credit per se but that by the end it could be the "sophisticate" Robbie dominant over the other "characters" (NLSC and Last Waltz). I think some of Rick's work could have fit in - Home Cookin' fits the theme of the Last Waltz and it would have been great to have recorded Small Town Talk which to my ear is more accessible than the Rumor. Great point someone made about the missing ingredient being John Simon post the Brown album. Noted that Rundgren worked very quickly in recording Stagefright. Big Pink and Brown took time to create magic, find choruses, select songs. Big Pink outtakes reworked and some covers could have aided Stage Fright and especially Cahoots. ROA, especially LIve at the Academy, show how the live perfomances remained stellar for a time after dissipation of that group creative magic. Note how most of StageFright sounds better on ROA because they worked the songs. Saw the reformed Band multiple times in 90s. The best was at the Lone Star in summer 1993 when they were proud of the new Remedy/Atlantic City album and they played like they knew they were great and special, kind of like an aging tennis player who gets his teeth into a match and thinks they are going to win that major one more time.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 18:35:09 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, do some research. There are shows from the 76 tour where they play as many as five songs from NLSC-Twilight. One show it was 5 of the 17 songs they performed. The fact that the latter Band didn't play these songs--nor a large number of other, far superior songs in their songbook-- is no doubt a major reason why that period is held in less regard than the OQ.

Bill M, good one.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 18:28:12 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.184)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Islands

Ben, for me it's not only NLSC but I would take Islands over any Band members solo release.

Look at the records The Beatles made as solo artists. Maybe not as great as what they accomplished together but the best of it is in the ballpark. Maybe I'm Amazed, My Sweet Lord, Working Class Hero, Band on The Run, Wilburys...None of The Band members solo records are in the same league as any of The Band albums.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 18:21:48 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: superb albums

JT, I can't help you with recomendations for recent albums. I've been going backwards and listening to a lot of music from the 50's through 70's. There is so musch remarkable music from that period that never reached an audience. For example Roy Orbison mid to late 60's material on MGM is quite good. Spirit made a great run of albums in the late 60's, '12 dreams of dr. sardonicus' is probably the best. The first two Soft Machine albums, the first Caravan album. The Pretty Things 'Sf sorrow' and 'Parachute'. Blood, Sweat and Tears 'Child is father to the man'.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 18:19:36 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.144)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ben: We do agree on some things, including Robbie's first album - though we'd differ on how much better it would have been if Levon had helped out on more of the lyrics.

PS: Think of a well-known narcoleptic, and be humbled.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 17:57:19 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: RCO All-Stars

I had the great pleasure of listening to 'Levon Helm and The RCO All-Stars' this morning. It holds up quite well, just as I had remembered. Washer woman, You got me, Sing sing sing, milk cow boogie. This is very spirited funky music. I find this album very consistent and enjoyable and the productions is not dated. NLSC in contrast is very erratic. Half of the songs are imho subpar. Hobo jungle, Ring you bell, Jupiter hollow, Rags and bones. None of these work for me. The other songs are better, but only two of them 'Ophelia' and 'It Makes no difference' remained in the Band's setlist through the 80's and 90's. Even on the 76 tour they only played 3 or 4 of these songs while relying on material from the first 3 albums for the bulk of their set. What does that say about these songs?


Entered at Wed Mar 4 17:29:22 CET 2015 from (70.54.130.89)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: "unique majesty of those three albums"

There has been plenty to read regarding the 'classics' and what we have identified as the best. I really like Al's ' unique majesty of those three albums'

What about 2010-2015? What albums would this group classify as having achieved 'superb' status? I have noted one or two myself in some of my posts. I'd be interested to hear from others. I have been alerted by Peter to some excellent albums from the UK by individuals who I didn't know until he reviewed them. This prompted me to purchase recordings and he has been right on the money on these performers. I'd be interested to hear form others what albums are in that elevated status.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 16:50:31 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, I doubt opinions about the Band's output diverge so much that someone here other than you prefers the first RCO album to NLSC.

You might be surprised to discover that the first published reference of FS Wolcott's Original Rabbits Foot Minstrel Show in relation to the Band was in Rolling Stone, August of 1968. It was made by Al Aronowitz. Levon's only songwriting argument in relation to that particular song was that "we changed the initials so it would move the syllables around and make it sing easier." Levon said he saw the show when he was a child but he doesn't say he worked on the song with RR, he doesn't say any particular in the song was something he wrote, he doesn't say he created any of the melodies, he doesn't say that he wrote any of the music.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 16:11:48 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Real Real Gone 2015

The new version of Real Real Gone by Van Morrison is now on YouTube (with Michael Buble) - linked.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 15:56:19 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

As I said yesterday, JT, I see all ratings as prefaced by "IMHO", but nevertheless useful. Five stars from someone you've never read before is meaningless. While Al Edge gives it 5 stars has context. It's a bit like hotels really. Al is the strict regulated AA grading of five stars. The rest of us might be like those 7 star hotels in Dubai. Or why French Brandy goes up to 5 stars. But Greek brandy goes up to seven stars.

I've just been reading Mal Peet's superb "The Murdstone Trilogy" a very funny book. At one point a hotel worker in Croatia is very proud of working in the only two star hotel in the town of Slut. She then wonders why the other hotel doesn't go and paint two stars on the sign, like her hotel did.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 15:53:58 CET 2015 from (86.183.247.239)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Great band the Band

Enjoying reading the posts today.

This is what I think you get with Our Boys.

Four brilliant, outstanding albums -MFBP, Brown Album, Stage Fright, Northern Lights Southern Cross,

An outstanding live album - Rock of Ages - love those horns.

A truly great album of the Band playing other writers' material - Moondog Matinee.

Other albums of great material punctuated with brilliance.

Great songs throughout.

And a few years ago I was listening to an old folkie on how he rated The Chieftains better than any other folk group 'because of how they came together, taking the music to a different level'. I think that is what our boys do.

I think Al Edge described how brilliant our boys are when playing together in yesterday's post, far better than I could.

Greatest band of all time, (but I love the Beatles too).


Entered at Wed Mar 4 15:09:59 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Roger, with all due respect, I don't see the logic in comparing 'Hey Jude' to 'Walcott'. To the best of my knowledge, Paul McCartney wrote HJ for Julian to comfort him during his parent's divorce. Are you suggesting otherwise? Did Julian relate childhood experiences to Paul which make up the lyrics of the song?


Entered at Wed Mar 4 15:07:14 CET 2015 from (70.54.130.89)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Standout songs

Al Edge: I like the concept of 'standout' songs as defining an album. With enough of these, an album achieves the 'superb' status. A lesser song does not detract from that assessment. Having said that, no matter how you cut it, the albums mentioned here of late have in the main achieved that 'superb' standing. I don't personally need to hear about the rating of 5/5 or 4/5 or whatever. What I want is a description of what is very good and where there might be failings or problems with an album (sound, production, as well as the material). I understand that ratings (using numbers) attracts attention and finalizes an impression. If that is what is needed for others, so be it.

As for NL SC, it has some standout songs as all have said. I'll refrain from comparing it to any other Band albums. Better to say that it is a very good album and follows a tradition set by its predecessors.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 15:07:03 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Madame George

I think we should all have a go at Marianne Faithful's rendition for a Wednesday. This is what cover versions are about and this one was at Van's invitation and produced by Van Morrison. He rightly thought her voice had a quality that did something to the song.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 14:50:51 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: we just disagree

In terms of musical taste, it's strictly subjective. There's been much discussion here about what makes a 5 star/A+ album. There probably is a consensus that the first 2 Band albums make the cut. Many would add the third album. Beyond that, opinions really begin to diverge. When talk turns to solo work, the divergence grows even further.

I make no secret of the fact that I don't enjoy much of RR's solo work. I find very little in his solo work that bears any resemblance to The Band, the one exception, obviously is 'Storyville', which I hardly consider the lost Band album. For a funky, r&b influenced album by a former member of the Band, I'll take both RCO albums over Storyville any day of the week. For the narcoleptics here, I would urge you to listen to the RCO live album. If that puts you to sleep, than you should consult your doctor immediately.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 14:40:42 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.179)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Thanks Al

Al, thank you for the further explanation. You've taken way more time explaining it then I deserve. I wasn't around during the good old days on the Guestbook but I've been hanging around for awhile now. You're one of the folks who when you post brings the Guestbook alive.

Now I have a further concern, the live version of Cyprus Avenue on It's To Late To Stop Now wipes the floor with the version on Astral Weeks. So can Astral Weeks still be perfect?


Entered at Wed Mar 4 14:01:48 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: The one and only Madame George

Years ago, Wavelength mag polled readers on favorite Van Morrison album, and the surprising winner was Beautiful Vision. I can't find the copy but I hope Astral Weeks and Moondance were next. I'd rate all three at the top of whatever rating system. I suspect Beautiful Vision was boosted because the voters were fans and a lot of Beautiful Vision material got into live sets then, while Van had already dropped Madame George and Cyprus Avenue from live shows and people had got fed up of requesting them. I never got to that whole album Astral Weeks show. Otherwise, I have seen him do Ballerina and Sweet Thing in the many years since I saw him do Madame George. But it seems a long time for those as well.

There is a slight "Dixie" situation as he had to give the Warner Bros albums to management to escape from his contract.

BTW, Al, have you heard the Van-produced version of Madame George by Marianne Faithful?

The new Van Morrison duets album is days way and the remake of Real Real Gone must be on the radio a lot, because I only ever play Radio Two on short car journeys and I've heard it three times.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 14:00:52 CET 2015 from (81.107.236.227)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Birmingham UK

Subject: Ben - I DO feel the love for Levon

Ben - you wrote 'W.S Walcott medicine show' is based on Levon's childhood experiences. The song would not exist otherwise, so I believe that Levon deserves a co-writing credit. Period.'

That can't stand as a claim for a song writing credit. 'Hey Jude' is based on Julian Lennon's childhood experiences - but his dad got the dough for songwriting because of the Lennon-McCartney arrangement. Neither is it the claim that Levon himself makes. His claim has been rather that other group members honed, polished and added finishing touches to songs brought to the studio by JRR. In fact he doesn't articulate much of a reason in TWOF where he seems to hold the view that there was an implicit joint contract between all members that credit be shared equally. I've been browsing Levon and Steve Davis's book. (I promise I've read every page earlier). The tale of F.S. Walcott's visits to Marvell is well related - as it is by Levon in The Last Waltz. Putting that story into a song as good as W.S. Walcott's Medicine Show took real song writing talent. Well done Levon and well done Robbie. But the cash only goes to the song writer.

Over the 19 years I've been reading the GB there's been a recurring misconception that if someone doesn't agree that Levon should get points for song writing then they must be a paid up member of the JRR booster club. That's just nonsense. I love Levon's work, his wit and humour and his part in The Band. But he's a killer drummer, not a song writer.

Browsing 'This Wheel's On Fire' prompts me to re-read it. There are some howlers - Stephen Davis's rather than Levon's I'm sure.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 12:56:17 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: The frying pan saga [contd]

Ha ha - Bob - you can borrow it by all means but i do have to warn you the moulded impression of my mush in the middle of it ain't pretty!!

So I’m trying to clarify what is very likely a degree of pedantry too far for many but it stems from the intensity of admiration I have for those first two albums and, of course, the musical/artistic zenith attained by the artists at the time they somehow managed to create such peerless works of musical art.

And, of course, we always have to bear in mind amidst all the shite spouted that beauty is very much in the eye of the al bum holder. And yet it's all good meaningless fun so here I go.

Like I guess many on here, god knows how many artists roads I've gone down over the years. Some roads lead to a dead end in that you soon realise that a track you heard which initially stirred your interest was actually a one off or not really representative of the artist and the main bulk of the artist’s work was not really for you.

At the opposite end of the scale there lies in my case the likes of Gene, REM, Randy, Boz, John Hiatt, Gram Parsons, Bob Seger, Teenage Fanclub, The Gourds plus the mainstreamers such as Bob, Van, Brucie, CCR etc etc which provide a rewarding journey and then keep on rewarding no matter how many times you re-visit them.

The thing is Bob, invariably out of instinct, I use those first two Band albums and Astral Weeks as a sort of unconscious standard marker for whatever it is I’m listening to.

Why that is I’m not really sure. I’m a hard taskmaster with it all. Forinstance even in the case of Big Pink which will always be my personal favourite you’ll notice in my ranking it does not get the A+ bestowed upon the Brown album and Astral Weeks. That is because the final two Dylan tracks simply do not fit in with the preceding ones. Magnificent as they are they simply do not fit.

So whatever the album, I simply end up making the assessment once a particular album has embedded itself fully into the bonce meter. It’s certainly not that I don’t want any other album to attain in my own estimation the same level as my favourites. Christ, I’ve often willed it to happen most especially with Brucie’s and there’s more than a few times I’ve felt an album has attained that magical level. Somewhat inevitably, however, there always seems to be a dip. It may only register with me some months or so later. maybe a year or so later. But ever since it's always happened that a track that just doesn’t really fit or falls below the mark I need to justify the rating I feel it merits to rank with my perfect two/three.

In the case of Big Pink, its release coincided with the very early days of my album buying career. I chanced upon it. And let’s not forget how huge a deal it was back then to purchase an album. It took a big slice out of my limited coffers back then. Other than most Beatles albums - mainly Christmas pressies - and Salty Dog and Threshold of a Dream I hadn’t at that time bought any others. Hearing ‘The Weight’ in the bar of the Vic for the very first time one Friday night propelled me to Myerscoughs on South Road the following day to make enquiries about this mysterious ‘Band’ and get them to order the album once they’d unearthed the fact that the track was actually on an album. It was some big deal for me back then. A venture into the unknown with my hard earned dosh – the equivalent of 22 pints of Tetleys mild. Fuck me. If ever a deal was worth the money though then that was it. Hearing that music once the album arrived was as profound an experience as I think music can ever invoke in a mere mortal.

I guess what is truly remarkable is that since that moment there’s only ever been two albums that have come close to impacting upon me in the same way. Yeah you’ve guessed it the Brown Album and Astral Weeks. Perhaps more remarkable is the release of those three albums all came within a time period of 12 months or so.

Now that is not to devalue in any way shape or form any of the other immense album delights I’ve enjoyed down the years. And that, of course, includes the joys of the three stand out tracks on NLSC plus the the great yet not so stand out other tracks on the same album.

However, for me to rate any of these at the same level as Big Pink, the Brown album and Astral Weeks would amount to me kidding myself and everyone else for it would mean to me that I was devaluing what I perceive as the unique majesty of those three albums and the unrivalled sublimity of the artists responsible which in terms of stand-alone albums I consider never to have been matched by any other artists including the two incumbents themselves.

And the fact is I’d never stoop to such disgusting low level as to even remotely consider for even a fleeting moment any such heinous betrayal.

:-0)

If that don’t clarify it Bob then bollocks to it.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 12:40:28 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Smoky bars and souped up cars where we drowned our sorrows

I had to do a Jawbone think, but I agree- it’s essential in the run. Always loved it.

The only one I didn’t mention is Ring Your Bell, which also swops vocals between all three. Melodically it has a touch of Cahoots (not positive) but it’s a great lyric, what feels like a horn section (but is synth) is absolutely first class and it’s all Garth too, and it really rocks along with a kind of rhythmic spring and bounce- a “bounce” that is the secret of Fleetwood Mac’s Rumors album at the same time, though there is no similarity in any other aspect. It’s better than any track on Cahoots except “Masterpiece”. Just play Rick and Levon’s first few seconds of instrumental. It’s a terrific Rick bass performance throughout. There is a good live 76 version of this too from the 76 Palladium show … which Pat B will tell you all about.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 12:07:19 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Leningrad Cowboys

Thanks Ian W for your link. It brings back memories. The stage was build on the stairs of University of Helsinki, originally University of Czar Alexander (freely translated). Symbolism starts already there and continues in every step. I struggle with my first Toppermost on this band. With my tempo it will take years to get it done.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 12:06:39 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

I can follow the logic Pete and fair play for giving it a go but whichever way you spin it it still means that in the final analysis your rankings have NLSC vying with Big Pink and the Brown album. And I'm afraid that simply doesn't compute with me.

Im doing a frying pan response to Bob so maybe there's something in that which will clarify my own take on all this.

Got to say Wallsend's comment on Jawbone did have me reflecting/backtracking a bit on whether there was any dip in the Brown's side two and whilst jawbone may not exactly enhance that side it doesn't cause any real dip for me - plus the majesty of the two closing tracks is so beyond compare that any 'ordinariness' of the preceding track merely serves to emphasise and enhance that majesty -Jemima/Rockin Chair/Cleveland/Jawbone/U Servant/Harvest


Entered at Wed Mar 4 12:01:22 CET 2015 from (92.18.167.102)

Posted by:

Solomon

Subject: NLSC

What I love most about NLSC is the way Garth added all the technology and still kept it soulful and rootsy. I think it does have a different sound/production from the usal rawer Band recordings but I totally disagree about it lacking soul.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 11:02:12 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: It does make a difference

NLSC was a 4.75 star LP, but the remastered CD added Twilight and Christmas Must Be Tonight (early version) which boosted it to 5. We’re talking about the essential nature of the OQ five. So …

Jupiter Hollow is Garth’s masterpiece, under-rated because they simply couldn’t do it live with 1976 technology. Fabulous, way ahead of its time.

It Makes No Difference was the outstanding song on the 90s Band live shows, Rick’s sublime performance of this was the best of all, enlivened of course by Garth’s solo.

Ophelia was Levon’s favoured song too- he must have loved it to do it nearly every time and it suited him. Forbidden Fruit featured on most 1976 shows, another flat out Levon triumph.

Rags and Bones and Hobo Jungle let Richard shine on vocals. Again, I think they would have featured more in collective memory with the addition of some great 1976 versions, or by appearing at TLW, but Richard on live shows wasn’t reliable enough by then.

Acadian Driftwood uses that trademark vocal swopping that had disappeared, plus it was Barney Hoskyn’s choice for greatest Band song. Lars would agree, I’m sure! Where are you Lars?

Accounts suggest that Robbie wrote it and “directed” it, the other three came in and did their parts and left, then Garth and Robbie spent months on producing the album we have. Twilight was an outtake, and destined for “The Best of the Band” the same year- not so much an outtake as a deliberate unheard track to sell the compilation. it worked on me, I bought the Best of for Twilight. Another fine Rick moment.

STORYVILLE – was the great lost reunion album. As we have so often said, you could assign those voices to the songs without much dithering. It would have only needed Rick and Levon’s vocal contribution, as the playing is brilliant anyway. Rick and Garth did lend a hand.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 08:11:06 CET 2015 from (219.89.221.66)

Posted by:

Rod

NLSC is a great technically but I do dind it a bit lacking soul. Acardian Driftwood and Ophelia are up with theirt best. IMND was as good as it's performance and they nailed it on TLW and some of the 76 shows. I listen to Levon's 4 80s albums occaisionally but it's pretty much bar room music to me. Rick's first effort was much better. I liked RRs albums when they first came out but I find them dated now. Good song writing but they needed The Band performing them. If you look at Robbies very early solo film stuff - he used Band members (well Garth and Richard) quite a lot. It's almost like he wanted to use The Band.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 07:54:22 CET 2015 from (58.104.24.166)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I wasn't a big fan of NLSC when it came out but it has three great songs that have stood the test of time. Sure there is some deadwood but even on the Brown album there are songs like Jawbone that didn't do a lot for me. Robbie said many times that he wanted to be innovative - he didn't want to just keep playing the same songs at the Lone Star Cafe - that is why his later work doesn't sound like The Band. Nobody could accuse the reformed Band in any of its manifestations of being innovative.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 05:31:52 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Bill, to each his own. I had a similar experience in 1987 when RR's first album was released. I was excited to buy it at the time, there are a couple of decent cuts on it, but overall, I would describe this album as a disaster. This album is the personification of 80's over-production. It's hard for me to fathom that this is the same man who "wrote" and recorded all of that wonderful music with Levon, Garth, Rick and Richard.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 04:00:41 CET 2015 from (98.215.30.129)

Posted by:

Zavadka

Subject: Northern Lights Southern Cross

NLSC, 5 stars every day! Wow! Even the cover is 5 star. The Band were the hipsters of the 70's. BTW, Jupiter Hollow is prolly Garth at his best ever.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 03:11:37 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: Listening Party

Time to load up the CD player for a refresher. NLSC followed by RCO.

I'll look for the good in each, and spread some sunshine the next opportunity that I get. This is still the booster club, right?


Entered at Wed Mar 4 02:41:51 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bill M, you're being kind with "yawnfest". It was much worse.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 02:28:15 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.134)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ben: I looked forward to buying the RCO album when it came out because I'd recently seen Levon and some of the All-Stars perform exciting versions "Washer Woman" and "Milk Cow Boogie". Turned out to be a yawn-fest, even those two songs. NLSC is far from my favourite Band LP, but Cajun Driftwood eclipses anything on RCO.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 02:11:20 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.150)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

An article from the Ottawa paper, titled "An homage to the Band: Canadian acts recreate The Last Waltz". Some of these people do have Direct connections: Lance Anderson produced Garth and Maud's "Live at the Wolf" and released it on his own label, I've seen Dennis Pinhorn playing with Garth and Kerrin Tolhurst (with BEG), Jerome Avis, as the son of Bill, grew up with our guys, I've seen the Weber Brothers with Garth (with BEG and Wittgenstein).


Entered at Wed Mar 4 02:01:30 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: 5 Stars

Al, so every song on the record has to be of equal greatness. If Meet Me In The Morning is great but not equal to the greatness of If You See Her Say Hello, Blood On The Tracks is not 5 Star perfection? Is that your system?

Can you ask Mrs. Edge if I can borrow the frying pan? I want to hit myself in the head a few times.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 01:25:06 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Sorry folks, I find NL-SC to be mediocre. Half of the songs are clunkers: Hobo jungle, Ring your bell, Jupiter hollow and Rags and bones. The other songs are strong, Ophelia and IMND are classic, but that's not a very good batting average. Certainly not compared to the first three albums. In addition, I hate the sound of this album. The keyboards, the production. It sounds horribly dated to me.

I find 'Levon and the RCO All-Stars' to be far more enjoyable and consistent album. The highlights for me are 'Washer woman', 'You got me', 'Sing sing sing, 'Milk cow boogie' and 'A mood I was in'. The RCO All stars live album is also wonderful. It's too bad that the album didn't sell and they broke up.

Carmen, to the best of my knowledge, Rubin Carter did not spend years performing and recording music with Bob Dylan, so to compare Rubin's relationship with Dylan to Levon and Robbie's is ridiculous.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 01:20:30 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

I rate NLSC just behind the first two, and I listen to it more that Brown. Rags and Bones is a great song with some brilliant Garth stuff. Jupiter Hollow is a bit odd, but again you get Garth creating an entire universe. The album also formed the basis for some great performances during the OQ's final tour. Forbidden Fruit, IMND, Ophelia, Acadian Driftwood. Even Twilight became powerful live.


Entered at Wed Mar 4 01:00:11 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Let's shift the arguments back to the 5 star thingio

:-0)

Okay P - here we go

So you'd rank NLSC along with Big Pink and the Brown album [and in your case as I know your strength of feeling for it - Stagefright?]

I just don't see that Pete.

Taking Jerry's stance i've no probs with terming them all great albums in their own right. But if you're going to cite a rating then I just don't see how NLSC ranks at the same level as the first two. For me it devalues the legacy of the first two to rank NLSC at the same level.

For me NLSC has two incredible songs and one great song with my favourite ever Richard vocal. Bob F has listed them though for me Ophelia doesn't get there albeit as integral as it became to the the live shows. The remaining tracks are simply decent. I never yearn for them like I do with the other three I mention. All my opinion like but that's how I see them.

In contrast Big Pink hits every spot of greatness right down until the last organ fade of Chest Fever and then applies the balm of Suzie. That's nine straight incredible strikes all within a thematic context. The Brown album goes a step further. Every track is a strike again within the theme.

To rank NLSC at the same level doesn't make sense to me Pete.

Over to you mate.

:-0)


Entered at Wed Mar 4 00:40:52 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: She's Not My Milk Cow

On one hand, I really like what Levon did with 'Milk Cow Boogie' and I even enjoy the live version that he did on the Woodstock Records release 'Souvenir' back in 1998.

I was fortunate enough to attend quite a few Rambles in Levon's Barn, as well as some of the Road Rambles, and I was always hoping that 'Milk Cow Boogie' would show up in the set list. Never had the good luck to hear Levon do it live, but I was always hoping. Still some of the best musical events of my life.

Another song that I particularly enjoy is 'She's Not Mine' from Robbie's 'How To Become Clairvoyant' album. Quite a different thing from 'Milk Cow Boogie', but both songs/performances hit that musical sweet spot for me.

And I always maintained that if Robbie held a concert in his home, and I had the advantage of geography to attend, I would be there to soak it in.

Ben / Peter - It's OK for you not to agree, but there's plenty out there to enjoy for what it is. Bandlike or not, I'd bet that you could both find some common ground.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 23:31:06 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Sorry, I’m flogging this one.

Willie & The Hand Jive is another example, both by Levon solo and the 90s Band. Not a patch on the Johnny Otis original, and even Cliff Richard managed to get a freshness of youth out of it back before he became Dorian Gray. It’s not about playing superbly, which was a given, but finding an angle to renew a classic song. It might be odd like Money by The Flying Lizards, or Satisfaction by Cat Power, or just “more vigorous” as when Bow Wow Wow updated I Want Candy from The Strangeloves original, or indeed The Who's take on Summertime Blues or Young Man. Or genre shifted like Peter Tosh doing The Temptations’ Don’t Look Back (obviously there are dozens of reggae versions of classics like that). But if all you're doing is a competent straightforward bar band version, do it the stage show only. Period.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 23:27:19 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: pa
Web: My link

Subject: songwriting

Ben - should Rubin Carter get songwriting credit for Dylan's Hurricane?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 23:11:26 CET 2015 from (58.104.17.48)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Even if Robbie hadn't spelt things out in various interviews over the years, it is clear from their subsequent careers that Levon and Robbie had different and irreconcilable approaches not just to music but to life. These differing outlooks extend to their respective fans and that is why the divide has become so deep and protracted.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 22:59:05 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Milk Cow Boogie and Havana Moon – add Money and Summertime Blues. These are not songs worth doing on an album unless you have something interesting to say that Elvis, Eddie Cochran, Chuck Berry, The Beatles, Barrett Strong and Eddie Cochran again didn’t say. And Levon didn’t have anything new to say. Great live, but hardly worth committing to record. There’s also an unfortunate tendency to swamp the songs which extends to High on the Hog and Jubilation – more people playing than you need and none of those spaces which the OQ so used – they never felt the need to have everyone playing at once.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 22:47:45 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

NLSC is a 5 star album.

I went to huge lengths to get an original RCO All Stars with die cut sleeve on release. It’s like lots of combined stars albums - an assembly of the greatest players you can find (such as Robbie Robertson & Garth Hudson on Sing Sing Sing), but then that great band is doing Milk Cow Boogie. And nowhere near as well as Eddie Cochran or Elvis Presley did it with a small band. Then Havana Moon. Have you heard the vastly superior Geoff & Maria Muldaur version from Sweet Potatoes (1972)? (LINKED) Or the original Chuck Berry?

I think the RCO All Stars concept worked much better live on the Palladium 1977 CD, maybe because it was a tad looser, plus the pressure of an audience. I really like that album.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 22:37:23 CET 2015 from (68.198.162.41)

Posted by:

Bob F F

Web: My link

Subject: NLSC

Ben, Northern Lights Southern Cross has Acadian Driftwood, Ophelia, It Makes No Difference and Hobo Jungle. I don't think any Band members solo records have songs in that league.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 22:26:37 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, I've never misrepresented a word of Levon's. Not once. You don't like that the record contradicts stuff Levon and Davis said in their book. That makes my greatest offense being accuracy.

And the first RCO album is better than NLSC? OK.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 22:09:40 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Pat, you've one of the main Levon bashers on this GB. You've repeatedly misrepresented the contents of Levon's book and the arguments he made regarding songwriting credits. I'll ask you again, did you read the sections where Levon talks about seeing the FS Walcott minstrels show?. Only a small part of Levon's book dealt with the songwriting issue. It was not, by any means the focus of the book.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 22:04:38 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: John Simon

Pat B, John Simon was a hugely important to helping The Band realize their potential. He even wanted to join The Band at one point, but according to Robbie, they already had two piano players.

John Simon was a great asset, but for full details, you'll have to refer to the John Simon Booster Fan Club site.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 21:56:35 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

JT, that's an interesting point although I would give Sir George more credit for the Beatles production than Simon for the Band. But John Simon is an excellent musician, has great ears and great production chops. I'm surprised no one has linked the falloff from the first two albums with Simon's departure, forced or otherwise.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 21:51:42 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Main offenders of what, Ben?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 21:47:06 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Kevin J

Ah! That's what this place needs. Finally. A sense of humour. Good one sir. Put a big smile on my face.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 21:45:23 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Peter, I don't think that the 'Levon and RCO All Stars' has ever gotten it's due. That was a phenomenal band and a very strong album. It's very unfortunate that the RCO album and Rick's album didn't sell at the time of release. I think both of these albums hold up much better than Robbie's first album. I would argue that these two albums hold up better than than the last few Band albums (NL-SC and Islands).

Pat, are you serious? You are one of the main offenders, apparently the only part of Levon's book that you read was regarding the songwriting issue. I'll state it again, that's a very small part of the book. Did you happen to read the section of the book where Levon talks about seeing the FS Walcott Minstrels? Or did you conveniently skip over that part.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 21:39:39 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

A 1960's divorce court where a Judge confronts an accused husband of infidelity asking how he could possibly explain being seen entering the Hôtel de Paris in Saint Tropez with Brigitte Bardot at 3:30am and leaving at 7:30am.........."Mathematics, your honour !"


Entered at Tue Mar 3 21:38:49 CET 2015 from (70.54.130.89)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: John Simon

Pat: Without question, there are so many that go into the mix to make a successful record. From producer to sound to technicians to studio support. My discussion focuses only on an attempt to put forth my views on the 5 (since there seemed to be various opinions, some of which I find unsavoury to say the least). John Simon mattered in the same way that George Martin mattered for Beatles.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 21:34:16 CET 2015 from (58.104.17.48)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Nice one Peter, perhaps we could extend the metaphor and assign them each a different part of the body. I leave it to your imagination ...


Entered at Tue Mar 3 21:15:05 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, do you really think people here haven't fully read Levon's book? That's bizarre. And if it will make you feel better, perhaps one of the worthies can give us his "RR as con man" theory again.

btw, why do all these "5 Man Magical Band" stories ignore John Simon?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 21:09:27 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: mathematical

JT summed it up best:

QUOTE: I've always thought (my interpretation only) that he heard a unique structure and form in the way Robbie played with each note selected and pronounced distinctly and none lost in the process. That's what I hear when I listen to Robbie and it is different from most other guitar players that I have listened to who display more fluidity. UNQUOTE

Yes, that's how I see it.

Ben, of the four Levon early solo albums, I thought RCO All Stars and the two labelled just "Levon Helm" on ABC and Capitol were quite 90s Band-like, but were not at all OQ like, except for maybe Strawberry Wine and bits of Moondog Matinee. You can see from 90s stuff that Levon's preferred direction was along those lines. I still recall Robert Christgau's review of one of the "Levon Helm" albums in one word: "Boogie." American Son was in a different class because it had really good songs, not the generic boogie stuff.

My auteur theory, puts Larry Campbell & Amy Helm as influential in the direction that led to Dirt Farmer and Electric Dirt. I think Dirt Farmer fascinating because it was a line of development they could have taken after the Brown Album, but Stage Fright was already changing to less rootsy, and by Cahoots they were on a different trail. Electric Dirt has some of it, but not as much as Dirt Farmer. I'd say Dirt Farmer is 5 star according to our recent discussion, but Electric Dirt definitely drops one star.

I'm amazed that you can't hear the OQ feel all over Storyville.

If Robbie was the thumb, then Rick was the romantic ring finger, Garth the biggest one, the middle finger, Richard, falling off in contribution in the later tours, the little finger. Levon was the index finger, both in accusatory mode and in upraised mode. Actually, I don't think he'd have been offended by that!


Entered at Tue Mar 3 20:48:20 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

With grace and dignity, RR on what The Band was:

Carol Caffin: How would you want the Band to be remembered?

Robbie Robertson: I would want the Band to be remembered as a real band. There was just a wonderful balance in this group, the way the whole thing worked. What Garth [Hudson] did was completely unique. Nobody else in the world was able to do anything near what Garth would do in the group. Rick, his singing and his playing'god only made one of those, and he broke the mold after that. Richard Manuel could make you cry in a second with his singing, and he was also just an amazing, beautiful soul, too. And Levon is one of the most talented people I've ever crossed paths with in my life. Levon taught me so much and is the closest thing I've ever had in my life to a brother. So anyway, I just have such warm, fond memories of the Band, and I would just want that to be passed on.

JT: Very observant on Carey Price.....the talent all can see.....but the character really is special.......shares First Nation status with Robbie......shining examples of the best of those cultures.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 20:20:31 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: E - I - E - I - O

Good Bill. I like that. I can almost hear it as a guitar solo.

Ben, some people think that you have to pick sides, and can only enjoy one flavor of ice cream. Others are more open minded. Don't let it get you down.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 20:17:38 CET 2015 from (70.54.130.89)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Levon and the Hawks

And just to make sure I don't miss this (my Toronto roots are showing): Levon and the Hawks was as fine a group of R&B/rock/bar band musicians as you will ever hear. To listen on the old records does not justify what is emblazoned in my brain from 1963-64 at the Concord. No. Its not schoolboy memory and wasn't it good then.(and maybe I remember what I felt and not how good it was?).. It was the real thing! As good as what anyone around was doing. And I believe that it could stand up today among bar bands. Listen to Too Slim and the Taildraggers or Dave Alvin and you'll get a taste or listen to Rhinoceros for the other part of what they did so well. It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but they did it best and I still love it.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 20:15:32 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.132)

Posted by:

Bill M

Another way to get acoss the point of e=nc2 is e=m. Unfortunately some terms in that particlar equation were expendable.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 20:04:19 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Wallsend, I don't prefer the reformed Band over the OQ. That's ridiculous. What I have written many times in this GB is that the 80's and 90's versions of the Band have been unfairly ignored in terms of live recordings and archival releases.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this GB has become extremely one-sided in terms of people falling over themselves to praise RR, while turning around and taking shots at Levon. Maybe if Amy Helm posted on here occasionally, the tone would be a bit different.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 19:59:17 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

Yes Wallsend, the opposable thumb. But I think you are missing my point. Besides, a thumb without the other fingers is still just a thumb. Capable of hitching a ride maybe...

All of the periods were crucial. And the best music was made with all 5. (Is it even necessary to have to keep saying this)?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 19:54:01 CET 2015 from (70.54.130.89)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Evolution

I believe that the music would have evolved as it did. To imply otherwise misses the point.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 19:46:39 CET 2015 from (58.104.17.48)

Posted by:

Wallsend

JT, The period Levon was away was crucial because it was in that period they changed from being the Hawks to being The Band.

Todd, the thumb is the most important. It is what separates us from other primates.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 19:42:05 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: Peas in a pod

I agree with you JT, and also think that each member was crucial to the collective known as "The Band".

Unfortunately, the "auteur theory" places more importance on Robbie's talents. Proponents of the theory maintain that The Band wouldn't exist without Robbie's vision and leadership. Ultimately that ends up being a divisive element, even without Levon's claims of unfairness. Best way to break up any group of people, is to tell one person that they are more important than the others. It might work in a dictatorship, but not in a collective.

Most people are fortunate enough to have 5 fingers on each hand. Which finger is the most important?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 19:38:06 CET 2015 from (70.54.130.89)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: A brief respite but no big deal in the overall spectrum of things

I know Levon was away for part of the time early on. Please don't remind me. Quibbling. His influence was major when you look at the entire spectrum. Certainly, once the OQ was continuing to make music history and impact our popular culture.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 19:25:43 CET 2015 from (70.54.130.89)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Enough! My take on The Band

The OQ was 5, count them, 5 members. They were all important. They all mattered. They all mattered in Toronto pre-Dylan. They all mattered in the basement. They all mattered from 67-76. We must all stop suggesting in any way that any one member mattered more than the others. When there is a band and they are all present as the songs evolve, putting the words on paper is only one aspect of the final product. I'm not getting into $$$ or who got what and who didn't and what was written in books or articles or what it might mean to whomever... I am talking about my take on The Band, what they produced, what they sang, what they played, what it sounded like on record and in concert. There are 5 members and they are all equal to me. It could never have been what it was without all 5. They all matter. Case closed!


Entered at Tue Mar 3 19:19:03 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: Sinister?

Kevin, I’ve read many Dylan interviews over the years. In fact that’s where I first read about Dylan’s description of Robbie’s playing. Dylan says a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean they can always be taken at face value…hence the question.

By “dig”, I certainly didn’t mean it to be sinister (why do I feel like I’m always defending myself here? It’s starting to “offend my intestinal nervousness”). I was thinking about all of the inane questions that Dylan was asked over the years, especially in the mid 1960’s, and the way that he would often have fun at the interviewer’s expense.

So, not a “dig” towards Robbie (who we all agree is fabulous and important in the Dylan trajectory), but more as a dig to the question posed by the interviewer. Considering the elusive task of trying to “explain” Art, sometimes misses the point….it’s meant to be experienced and enjoyed, not always dissected….and I wasn’t sure if Dylan was trying to give an “answer” to some question that perhaps isn’t answerable. So, a dig at the interviewer, a dig at the question, I don’t know….but certainly not sinister. As I said, I’ve always felt Robbie to be a feel player, not a formula type of guy. And I mean that in the most complimentary way.

If Dylan was having fun at the interviewers expense, then I think that it is somewhat humorous that the phrase has been picked up and repeated so many times in subsequent articles, with scholarly seriousness, when it might not even be a real thing.

So the question remains: What is mathematical guitar playing? Is it a real thing, or something that Dylan invented?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 19:17:20 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: This Wheel's on fire

Peter, I think many on this GB take a knee-jerk reaction to Levon's book without having read the full book . In my recollection, the issue of songwriting mis-credits take up a very small part of the book.

I stand corrected regarding RR, he has played exactly one full length concert in the past 39 years. My apologies. Levon played hundreds, if not thousands between 1977 and 2012.

Regarding the continuity of their post Last Waltz work. This is a subjective issue. I'll say it again, I find very little continuity in RR's solo work with that of the OQ. I find a logical continuity from the original OQ to 'Levon and the RCO All Stars', 'American Son', Levon's contributions to various projects such as 'The Legend of Jesse James' 'Staying Together', Jeicho', 'High on the Hog' 'Souvenier, vol 1.', 'Jubilation', 'Midnight ramble vol. 2', 'Dirt Farmer', 'Electric Dirt', 'ramble at the ryman', 'Midnight ramble vol 3'.

I'm reminded of the criticism that RR leveled at John Fogerty back in the 80's when Fogerty released 'Centerfied' which bore a strong resemblance to his work with CCR. While RR was taking a different path breaking down walls and casting soundtracks to the movies in his head with the ground breaking 'Robbie Roberston' solo album. Thirty years later, 'Centerfield' has aged a hell of a lot better than 'RR'.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 18:56:42 CET 2015 from (58.104.17.48)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Bob speaks in a poetic way even when he is talking normally. He probably described Robbie's playing in that way more to convey an impression rather than for the words to be taken literally because, lets face it, they don't make any sense.

Ben, there are plenty of places you can go on the internet if you want to read hate about Robbie. This is a fan site, most of us are fans of all the guys and, above all, the combination of the guys in the OQ. Some, like your good self, prefer the post OQ.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 18:49:47 CET 2015 from (67.87.217.145)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Kevin,clearly you meant helpful to Dylan. But important, was unclear, and the way you wrote it can mena different things. Important guitar player to Dylan, or important guitar player historically in the context of music as a whole? Whilst i 've not the time to discuss it, or develop my thoughts, strong cases could be made for both Bloomfield and RR as being the most important guitar player in Dylan's career. Longevity wise, and helpful wise, no doubt, RR. I'd write more, but arriveriderci till manana or Thursday.

Ben,I could answer your question, but it might take me a few months or years to consider and narrow it down properly. but the history of the answer goes back to possibly prior to my entry into this GB.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 18:37:38 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Todd.......you might want to read some of Dylan's various interviews over the years.......mathematical is a favourite description of his to describe his own songwriting, life, times in his life, even the shape and make-up of Marlene Dietrich............only a sinister mind could even imagine it as a dig at unquestionably the most helpful and important guitar player he has ever been associated with.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 18:33:39 CET 2015 from (92.18.178.104)

Posted by:

Solomon

Subject: The Gourds

I think The Gourds were about as close to The Band as anyone ever got.

My own favourite is still Bolsa de Agua.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 17:39:36 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: E=MC2

Thanks JT. Yes, agree on Robbie's unique style and phrasing.

I suppose my real question is, was Dylan just having some fun with an interviewer, and it got repeated over the years and became fact, or is this mathematical playing an actual guitar thing? I sort of figure it's all mathematical or none of it is.

Or was it a dig disguised as a compliment, as in a "paint by numbers" type of approach. Somehow mathematical implies a sense of that to me, and as mentioned earlier Robbie seems more of a "feel" player to me.

Or was Mr. Jones simply being a Jokerman?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 17:12:01 CET 2015 from (70.54.130.89)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: mathematics

I've always thought (my interpretation only) that he heard a unique structure and form in the way Robbie played with each note selected and pronounced distinctly and none lost in the process. That's what I hear when I listen to Robbie and it is different form most other guitar players that I have listened to who display more fluidity. Now don't chastise me because I am not a guitar player of any ability. This is just my ears. I'd also be interested also in other opinions on this.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 17:02:35 CET 2015 from (32.216.239.250)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: Robbie’s Mathematical Guitar Playing

JT made reference to this yesterday, and it reminded me that I’ve never completely understood what Dylan was talking about when he made this statement about Robbie.
"The only mathematical guitar genius I’ve ever run into who doesn’t offend my intestinal nervousness with his rearguard sound."

I’ve played some guitar, know about the minor pentatonic scale, and know enough about the piano, to understand that music has a mathematical component to it. But what exactly did Dylan mean in regard to Robbie’s playing? I’ve read explanations from Dylan in interviews where he addresses this, but in all honesty, I still don’t get it. Was it just Bob being Bob? Aren’t all guitar players mathematical to some degree? I’m sure that it was meant as a compliment, but I’ve always though of Robbie as more of a feel player, rather than some sort of rote formulaic creature.

This has always been somewhat of a mystery to me, and perhaps someone with more formal musical training than I’ve had could shed some light on the subject.
What is a mathematical guitar player, and what did Bob mean?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 15:29:53 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I think rather than being the Robbie booster club, the GB is a haven from the kneejerk reactions of readers of Levon’s book elsewhere on the net.

Full Robbie concert: Agrigento. If only there had been more. Partial concert: Seville Guitar Heroes.

Linear connection to OQ songs: every track on Storyville, several on the first solo album, several on How To Be Clairvoyant. Several one offs like Shine The Light, Between Trains etc.

Reason to associate him with Band songs: Just under the track title of most of them it says (J.R. Robertson).

I agree that Dirt Farmer had a logical line from the OQ,, more than any 90s Band album actually, possibly more than any post-TLW album except Storyville. Also American Son in its way. I’m not sure that the three other solo albums do at all.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 15:14:19 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: where's the love for Levon?

I don't know why this guestbook has turned into the Robbie Robertson booster club? It seems to me that Levon is far more responsible than Robbie for keeping the legacy of the The Band alive from 1977-2012 by actually performing the music of the "original quintet"and recording new music that followed a clear, logical path from the OQ. Robbie has done neither of these things. He has not played one full concert since TLW. And the music he has released, has in my opinion, minimal connection to the OQ. If one did bot know that he was a member of The Band, would there be any reason to associate any of his solo work with the works of the OQ? I don't think so.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 14:54:18 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: A Hard Day's Southern Night

In retrospect, yes, A Hard Day’s Night is a 5 star album (playing as I type), and I have the film on blu-ray too (on special offer). You Can’t Do That is a favourite. I never liked Can’t Buy Me Love, and still don’t. So not perfect. At the time though, I was just starting to have doubts. By Help my preference for The Rolling Stones was solid, confirmed by Beatles For Sale which had Mr Moonlight, a weak version of Kansas City and Rock & Roll Music at a point when the Stones simply did Berry better. But Rubber Soul wiped the floor with everybody else.

The Southern list … as so much comes from the South anyway it’s hard to choose. I would put Dixie number one, obviously. And King Harvest at #2.

The #1, Carolina On My Mind, is a weird number one, as it’s about driving in New England, I thought! You can’t argue with Georgia On My Mind at #2, Mississippi (Bob) at #5, or Midnight Train to Georgia at #6. But what about Southern Accents? Mississippi on My Mind? Biloxi? No Randy Newman? Louisiana 1927? Rednecks? Birmingham? Dixie Flyer? I would have thought more songs with New Orleans and Memphis in the title … but as soon as you think, there are just SO many. It’s endless. How about ten with Band connections? Robbie Robertson’s W.S. Walcott Medicine Show might be a Southern setting, or is it about carnivals in Ontario?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 14:49:11 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: W.S Walcott

Roger, 'W.S Walcott medicine show' is based on Levon's childhood experiences. The song would not exist otherwise, so I believe that Levon deserves a co-writing credit. Period.

None of us know the exact circumstances of the "writing" of the song. Did Levon tell stories about seeing F.S. Walcott mintrels over a period of time and Robbie filed the stories away and "wrote" the song at a later time, or if Levon and Robbie were collaborating on the song together. Do you think Levon gave the stories to Robbie as a gift? Do you know of any other circumstances that Robbie "wrote" a song based on Levon, Rick, Richard or Garth's childhood experiences?. Please advise if you do. As far as I know, this is the only case of this, and for some mysterious reason, Levon was not credited properly.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 14:30:18 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

“Mama put my guns in the ground … I can’t shoot them anymore” sung by hundreds of guys in military gear with Russian accents (the lead singer’s fine). Clarinets, a bit of balaika in there. On the whole it’s better than invading countries, injecting opponents with polonium or shooting down critics in the street! This is bizarre, but in the end A GOOD THING.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 13:46:03 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Web: My link

Subject: The Leningrad Cowboys are knock-knock-knocking on heaven's door

If you like Rotary Connection's "Rolling Stone", what will you make of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV6ETVQgob0


Entered at Tue Mar 3 13:11:35 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.179)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Songs about the south

Another list. This one from Rolling Stone Country. They have Dixie coming in only at #25.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 13:10:53 CET 2015 from (81.107.236.227)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Brum UK

Subject: The Night I Drove Old Robbie Down

Ben - surely the valid reason for Levon forgoing a credit on W.S. Walcott is that he didn't write it. Unless you know a bit that he wrote? John Lennon took the words for Mr Kite from a copy of an original flyer - Macca got a writing credit because their agreement was to credit all songs jointly. The Band had no such agreement so writing credits went to each writer where they contributed to the writing of the song. Levon tells the story of the travelling medicine shows beautifully in The Last Waltz - but telling that story is in no way akin to contributing to writing of the song.

Al and Dunc - Hard Day's Night is definitely 5 star. In the context of Beatlemania and the incredible burst of creativity Lennon and McCartney were experiencing it was a game changing release. Same for the film - brilliantly fresh and witty.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 12:33:42 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Sure pisses all over working like a fool does this caper!

:-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 3 12:32:35 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Hard Days Night

I can still recall the thrill of sneaking down to the foot of the stairs late one night to hear that opening chord. There'd been an annoucement that the song would feature on a late news item and, with school the next day, I wasn't allowed to stay up.

Like fuck I was going to miss THAT!!!!

A true desperado me - ha ha.

Utterly incredible musically and lyrically.

As for the album - yeah Dunc. In broad terms it has to be 5 stars. Full of even quality pop gems. All composed by Lennon/McCartney - the first 100% self penned album ever done by them I think I'm correct in saying and, as it was them, probably the first time ever by any popular artist[s].

Magical memories.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 12:22:46 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Flanagan and Allen

FRED: Actually meant Henderson and Allen but Rog and PV will appreciate the delicious name fortune that means the two principal crazy gangers will soon have a major role to play in the Reds line up once young Jon returns to fitness.

You're right Fred re those two. They've both had very difficult initiations. Both cost around 15 million or so and both have had huge struggles to become accepted by the majority of fans but have now shown that a] often management does know best and b] often fans for the most part don't.

For Joe Allen I was always of the opinion he'd come good. For Hendo I was 100% wrong and very firmly in camp b].

Opinions huh.

:-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 3 12:14:02 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Roger

Forgot. Comments duly appreciated mate.

:-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 3 12:12:08 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Web: My link

Subject: Hey Dunc

I'm sure you'll get immense joy if you dig out The Gourds - beginning right from the start with Stadium Blitzer and Dems Good Beeble.

As recommended to me in 1999 by good old Ed Voci. Advice dutifully and feverishly followed by my goodself to my eternal gratitude.

The link is The Gourds evocation as to what America was built on and what is frustratingly one of the commitments that keeps me off these feckin boards most of the time.

As for the Fannies - Songs from Northern Britain is the album that would most appeal to your Caledonian pop/folk sensibilities I'm pretty sure Dunc.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 11:42:56 CET 2015 from (86.183.247.239)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Reviews

I use the reviews in the GB, but to take a chance I need another hook.

Bill M and the late Steve got me into Blackie and the Rodeo Kings, but I wouldn't have taken a chance on them if Garth had not been on the album and I hadn't read how much they liked John Martyn.

I enjoy reading and have phases of reading travel books. Before I knew Peter, he mentioned his tutor was Jonathan Raban and that he was a good writer. I had read a great review of one of his books,'Arabia', and this combination led me to reading three of his books.(I could only find three in Glasgow).

On my shelf there is a CD of Jame's Carr's greatest hits. That was down to Bumbles pointing me in that direction after discussions on Dan Penn after me seeing him in concert.

I got round to buying Weather Report album after them being mentioned by a few people on the GB, and always mentioned by John Martyn.

Al, missed Teenage Fanclub, but enjoy what I have heard of them. Sadly 90 per cent of the music I have starts off in my youth.

JT - take a chance on 'Stories' by Maura O'Connell. worth a tenner.

Me. What's next?The purchase of a couple of Waterboys.

Am I the only person who thinks 'A Hard Day's Night' is worth five stars?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 10:41:31 CET 2015 from (153.132.219.109)

Posted by:

Fred

I also like the midfield duo of Allen & Henderson this season.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 10:14:58 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: FRED

I have trouble finding me underpants these days.

What about Phillippe then mate!!

:-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 3 10:13:21 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

KEV: Ha ha - but kev Luis is ..so 2014. 2015 is Philippe Coutinho. :-0)

ED Voci- Blimey 'O' Riley! Now there was a poster extraordinaire. I thank Ed to this day for introducing me to one of those musical explorations to which I referred to in an earlier post. The wonderful Gourds a la the genius of Kev Russell and Jimmy Smith. They were only 3 albums into their career at the time but the listening rewards ever since have been priceless.

DUNC - on the same tack. We may have touched on this before but the journey unearthing the timeless pop genius of Caledonia's very own Blake/Love/McGinley equates with any of the explorations I've been on. What a band.

JEFF/TODD/KEV - thanks for kind words. You can only try to convey what lies in your heart. The Band is too precious - the most precious of all - to be the subject of acrimony.

BILL - always a card!! Thankfully. :-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 3 09:23:06 CET 2015 from (153.132.219.109)

Posted by:

Fred

Web: My link

Can anyone find The Band in this?


Entered at Tue Mar 3 06:58:25 CET 2015 from (76.69.46.166)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Hab-it forming

If I'm reading the writing on the proverbial wall correctly (Kevin), this is the year of the Habs. Now there is a team that knows how to win, and with a goalie who is a class act. Believe me, all of you over there, in Canada, for many hockey is our football (soccer for the uninitiated) and we bleed our colours. Why? Just because.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 06:54:31 CET 2015 from (76.69.46.166)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Bandwagon

Al and Bill: You've nailed me to the cross I bear. My love of a winner and my loyalty to a loser. Art is not science. It is not numeric (except for Robbie's mathematical playing). The Leafs - well, I'm old enough to remember when they were a winner (1962, 63, 64 and 67). I am going to stay on this planet and stand behind them until they achieve. I will likely be around for a long time, and I look forward to enjoying both art and my team find a way to let me finally say (without malice) - I told you so. I remain constantly on the Bandwagon. (Leafs and OQ). As Journey (not a big fan) say - 'Don't Stop Believing".


Entered at Tue Mar 3 05:08:19 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.152)

Posted by:

Bill M

Al E: You're five time zones away so can be forgiven for seeing JT as a sober-sides. If you were Canadian you'd know that no man who takes the Leafs seriously decade after decade can himself be taken seriously by others. It's national law.

In other news, a time-killing trip to a little record store on the Yonge Street of Ottawa turned up a radio station promo copy of jesse Winchester's "Yankee Lady" 45 ("Produced by Robbie Robertson Engineer: Todd Lundgren"), a taciturn Joni 45, "Carey" / "This Flight Tonight" with almost no other info on the label, and a new David Wiffen CD that gathers a mix of unreleased tapes from the '70s, '80s and '90s. Rockin Chair's old buddy Gary Comeau is on guitar on some tracks, as is the drummer from that aforementioned Jesse Winchester record, Dave Lewis.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 04:32:13 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.129)

Posted by:

Bill M

Pat B: Bad idea. I'm in a crowded lobby so had to go loud - and people are still looking at me. Maybe it was that I had to use my fingers too.

Nice to see that nod to Chuck Stepney. I still thing Rotary Connection's LARS is one of the finest versions of the song ever. Top Two for sure.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 03:34:02 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Jeff, you bringing up Ed Voci is certainly ironic.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 03:19:58 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

If you ever drive your car straight into a tree, call Al Edge, he'll write a brief so staggering in its believability that the insurance adjuster will report that in the moments before the tree hit your car you were driving better than Villeneuve at Dijon in 1979 or Senna at Portugual in 1985........he won't be able to do a thing about how not having Luis Suárez at LFC has ruined my weekend tv viewing, but hey, no one is perfect.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 02:37:46 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: New Dylan Video

Truly a moment to have a laugh.Bob's a hoot.Ian,thanks for posting it.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 02:24:38 CET 2015 from (67.87.217.145)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Al Edge you certainly nailed it today. And it was a perfectly worded concise summary of what You, Ed Voci, Todd, & I were all discussing daily as far back as 12 years ago. It's a long walk since then, and lots of muck, quicksand, hostile tribes, & pirates on the never ending course. Thanks for getting it back on track in a regal way.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 02:06:28 CET 2015 from (174.236.1.112)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: North America

Subject: This, that and the other thing

Jed, I think that Jazz & Blues (and Country, Soul, Reggae, and whatever else floats your boat) can be included in any discussion of “perfect albums”. In fact in my post from February 28, which was just a quick and far from comprehensive list….just sort of what came to mind at the time, included: Miles Davis ‘Kind of Blue’, BB King ‘Live at The Regal’, and Norah Jones ‘Come Away With Me’. Looking back at Al’s repost from our respective Top 20 from a few years ago, I had included Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson, as well as some Aretha and Ray Charles. So I think the field is wide open, and not limited to Rock & Roll (whatever that may be).

Today while I was working at a computer all day, I had the opportunity to listen straight through, without interruption, to Dylan’s ‘Highway 61 Revisited’, ‘Blood on The Tracks’, and ‘’Love & Theft’. Pretty damn staggering to consider that’s just a fraction of one man’s work. Enjoyed them all, and they’re each perfect in their own way, but I’ll take ‘Highway 61’ as definitive.

Al Edge, good to see you pop in and share your thoughts. This statement of yours from an earlier post today:
“It is the intrinsic alchemy between the five members at the time of their first two albums - one that in my opinion set a benchmark for popular music that surpassed anything that went before and has not been approached since - which renders the issue of the Band’s songwriting distinct from any other of which I am aware.”

That pretty much sums up the way I feel about the issue, and states it in such a succinct and powerful way, that gives credit to all without taking credit from any, and shouldn’t hurt anyone’s feelings. The business side of it is what it is, or was, and I’ll leave that aspect to the experts. But your simply stated quote above, regarding the creation of these works, pretty much reflects how I feel about the issue, to the point that I don’t think that I’ll ever need to comment again about it. Well done!


Entered at Tue Mar 3 01:30:17 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

.....should have been I love ratings "of" rather than "on".......anyhow, thank you for the noir Dylan video, Ian, nicely done.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 01:19:48 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Count me out the not wanting ratings or lists.....

I love lists and ratings on albums.....doesn't change as thing in terms of the validity of the reviews but I detest the vanilla of the attemps at balance in a review...........This isn't theatre or cinema and I hate it there too......5 stars for "Nevermind The Bollocks".......5 stars for The Band by The Band.......I might be the only person alive who believes both.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 00:53:58 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Web: My link

Subject: DYLAN's NEW VIDEO - "The Night We Called It A Day"

Not as violent as one of Nash Edgerton's previous efforts on behalf of Dylan.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 00:52:57 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Taste

Bob - the mush is that weeny bit flatter after tonight's frying pan episode. Too much salt in the spuds. One of these days I'm sure I'll learn the lesson.

As it is, Kev, Jerry and Dunc are right - the universal arsehole principle applies in repect of all these matters - in that opinions are very much like them.

And in this connection Jerry arrives like Superman with his balanced perspective on why any form of ratings system for art/music is utterly fecking preposterous. And, of course JT is absolutely bang on the money. It is ridiculous to have these pantheons. Ony a complete idiot would ever try to organize such a thing. Which is where I enter the picture. :-0)

That said, as we all know full well the opinion of an arsehole on the GB is a different matter entirely. And I should know.

:-0)


Entered at Tue Mar 3 00:47:03 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.146)

Posted by:

Bill M

Pat B: Bad idea. I'm in a crowded lobby so had to go loud - and people are still looking at me. Maybe it was that I had to use my fingers too.

Nice to see that nod to Chuck Stepney. I still thing Rotary Connection's LARS is one of the finest versions of the song ever. Top Two for sure.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 00:28:09 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Jed - I honestly wouldn't know or appreciate a decent jazz record if it jumped up and bit me on the backside. Same goes for hip hop step and jump. Blues I can sort of fathom to a limited extent. But to ne absolutely clear all my own comments relate to what I'd term the more mainstream channels of popular music.

Dunc - good post mate. And agree with Pete and you re some of the artists.

What I will say is that a lifetime of an open minded approach - which is not that common in my own experience since many I know seem to stick with what they already know and are comfortable with - does affords you access to so many different artists. Over time you can then place the music of these numerous artists in your own kind of respective quality pantheon. There's clearly many on here who have followed this path of exploration of countless artists. Some paths are extremely rewarding and enriching. Others not so. But you do acquire a feel for it. And the fact so many of us on here are long in the tooth and have done done this for so long with so many different artists and still have The Band's work placed so high in the pantheon after all this time simply has to tell its own story.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 00:10:00 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: The Songwriting

Pat, pleased we agree on the basic essence of the songwriting issue.

Namely that Robbie was unequivocally THE songwriter of The Band.

The fact the uniqueness of the musical chemistry he and the others infused into both his and Richard's songs took their respective creations to unfeasible levels of beauty and sublimeness does not alter that basic songwriting fact.

Albeit what it does do, because it was so crucial in ensuring the finished product attained what I can only term a transcended level, is to create a context for appreciation of the process that ensured that transcendence. Such context virtually demands that it be viewed through a lens that is perhaps less cut and dried than is usually the case and which some folks seem to feel by definition has to be the case.

It goes without saying the same principle applies to Richard's early offerings.

In the final analysis I guess if I’m honest about it the entire thing stems from the belief I have held for so long concerning where those initial two albums fit into the broader pantheon of popular music’s collective acts. Both were one offs and as such both created a unique musical legacy which calls for its own terms in respect of how it came to pass and how it is perceived.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 00:08:47 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

I don't think anyone has ever disputed the fact that Robbie was the primary songwriter on the first 4 Band albums. I don't think that Levon ever disputed that. Levon's dispute was that some songs credited solely to Robbie, should have been joint credits with other members of the Band. Period. I for one, find this to be a reasonable position. For example, I don't see any valid reason that Levon didn't receive a co-writing credit on 'W.s Walcott medicine show'.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 00:07:33 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Definitions

All sort of beliefs about what "perfect" really means.We never even defined what style of music we were talking about.In best or perfect album,I don't recall anyone mentioning Miles Davis's Kind of Blue.So,are we not including jazz or blues? If we do all bets are off as to what this categorizing is all about.


Entered at Tue Mar 3 00:04:24 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Great post, Dunc! I share most of your dislikes!

On scoring and rating, it does NOT work as the objective judgement on an album, but it does work in assessing what a known reviewer thinks of it. So in the early 70s, if Richard Williams said 5 star or 10/10 or A or whatever, I went out and bought it. Which is why I have Link Wray, J.J. Cale, Little Feat in my collection. Similarly, because I do theatre reviews on my blog and read the newspaper ones, I have a good "Feel" for what The Guardian and Telegraph and Sunday Times and Daily Mail reviewers think. Their ratings work because I know their views. It is not an objective assessment of the play but it certainly helps me to decide whether to buy tickets. So known opinions from familiar reviewers work … and you notice Rolling Stone Record Guide has initials after each review so you can assess the assessor.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 23:52:46 CET 2015 from (86.183.247.239)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Listening to albums.

Our workloads determine how much listening time we have. Because of John Martyn, I was always going to check out Weather Report, but it took me a long time to get round to this.

I really enjoy Blackie and the Rodeo Kings, but I wonder how many Canadians have been to a concert.

I felt slightly guilty that I had seen The Chieftains in Dublin, and had many of their albums which I like, before I had heard of Jock Tamson's Bairns or owned 'The Lasses Fashion', an album which matches any of their albums.

Then there is just too much music. I wonder how many great bands I have missed.

Then taste comes into it. I don't rate The Doors, The Grateful Dead, Deep Purple, Led Zepplyn, Black Sabbath and many more, but I respect your right to like who you like.

In Britain, the context in which the music is played is important. I used to love how John Lennon and the Rolling Stones upset the dreadful establishment in Presbyterian Scotland back in the day. Lennon's assassination was a dreadful loss to me. The times really changed here in the sixties and the seventies.

Fashion was important, and related to the music.

Then it's the soundtrack of your personal life. The music you studied to, courted to and danced to at the local Palais de Dance. Avoiding the gang fights as you left.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 23:32:11 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

JT: Safe flight but do check my perfect 5 of February 28 - it contains exactly what you are referring to......and as noted the debut by Norm Jones scored as highly as "Dark Side of The Moon" on Al E's exercise of years ago - gotta love this place !


Entered at Mon Mar 2 23:16:43 CET 2015 from (204.239.250.1)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Like A Complete Unknown

As I sit here in the lounge waiting for my 'late' AC plane to carry me to TO, I am pondering the issue of somewhat unknown music. We here have been scoring albums and speaking about perfection and what it is. But there are superb albums out there that will never make the list, not because they don't deserve to make the list, but because they are largely unknown. 'Rhinoceros 1' is an example cited by Bill M. There are superb albums by Canadian artists who are largely unknown or at least sparsely known outside Canada. If the playing field was level (it isn't) then these should receive consideration. But you can't judge what you don't know. So, I submit again that to give numbers to art (rate it in some hierarchy of 'goodness') is yet another flawed exercise.

I plead guilty to the charge that I condemn. I have participated in this transgression in the past.

Blonde on Blonde is a great album. Period. I listened to Headstones last record. It is great from beginning to end. So where is it on any list. It is so tempting to our egos to score and rate and put things in order of some numeric system. There are buried gems that will never even get scrutinized. I can live with 'the perfect record' but not only do I agree that we shouldn't be giving out 5's every 2 weeks... I don't think we should give out 5's at all. Just describe the positives and the negatives where they exist. As for the complete unknowns, they will always exist. I heard a sax player on the street corner last week and thought about how he saw his music as the coins were dropped into a hat in front of him. As the witch said in that classic "What a world! What a world!'


Entered at Mon Mar 2 21:34:06 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: Where discussions on 5 star albums always get to !

Some years ago PBS had a discussion on wine and on the panel was a Frenchman considered to be world's top expert........the people at the table were all muttering on about smells and apples and hints of God knows what.......and then they all turn to the world's leading authority....and as only a Frenchman can....he looks at all of his table mates, and with a disdainful shrug says simply "Look, you either like the taste or you don't".......no word on whether he preferred "Infidels" or "Love and Theft" over all the rest but I do.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 21:07:00 CET 2015 from (86.183.247.239)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: A hard Day's Night

I think 'A Hard Day's Night' is a brilliant album.

I'll bouy it and give it foive.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 21:07:00 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Sure, Jeff. You really set the record straight.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 21:00:26 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Shalom ve lehitraot

Pat, as much fun as it has been enjoying your exposure, it's time to go. But, i'll simply point out the phrase i used.
"Pat, i always enjoy when you reveal your Fascistic Tea Party impulses."

Though you are presenting that I am " name-calling " & "throwing the term "fascist" around ." I am not. As anyone paying attention can see.

You might want to consult a thesaurus or dictionary,The term" Fascistic Tea Party impulses" converts to authoritative,dictatorial, despotic, undemocratic, illiberal, right wing impulses.
It is far from name calling, or calling you a fascist. Despite how you wish to present it. That manner in which you responded to Al's intelligent, and pleasant discourse, or that you were irritated by my simple question, re how many people counted out loud, it's not anyone's fault, not even yours, Stop beating yourself up about it already.

Arriverderci , Sayonara :-)


Entered at Mon Mar 2 20:49:57 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Kinda the same problem gymnastics has ever since they handed out a perfect 10. Most say Sgt. Peppers is the Beatles finest, but I'd take at least three albums of theirs over that one any day. MFBP over Brown, easy. BoTT over BoB. Al E is quite right: giving our 5 stars a couple of times a months is silly.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 20:29:53 CET 2015 from (58.104.13.103)

Posted by:

Wallsend

'Reviews' in magazines etc aren't real artistic evaluations of the content they are marketing devices. Same with the Alice Cooper Vs The Band contest we all got sucked in to voting in. It is simply a promotion device for their website.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 20:27:26 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Oh, Jeff, I'm pretty sure you're all alone on this one. Maybe if you called me a Nazi you would really make your case.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 20:21:22 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

We should ask a Beatles site, Al, but I trust the ears here more. Rita and Mr Kite pass the test for me. So do What Goes On and The Word. But while I play Yellow Submarine to the kids, I do skip it myself. So, yes.

Christgau got himself a 15 point scale: A+, A, A- and so on. Even Rolling Stone started giving half stars, usually four and a half. I look at this with theatre reviews as all the papers use a five star system. They usually cluster, but Man & Superman last weekend polarized reviewers into twos and fours. I hadn’t star rated it myself, but would have been 3 verging on 4. Three and a half then. B+?

I think the “every track perfect” fails too often. Overall “Blonde on Blonde” is a clear five star / A+ album, but I rarely go on to Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands, because it’s a different thing really. But it’s still as good a purchase as anyone can make. So 5 / A+. So, Nashville Skyline? Overall it’s got to be A but is it A+? I think so. BUT I think some tracks are as on Animal Farm, “more equal than the rest.” I mean, Nashville Skyline Rag doesn’t match Lay Lady Lay or Tonight I’ll Be Staying Here with You. But it functions in context. That’s inevitable, but overall, it still qualifies. And you need light and shade. It can’t be full on fantastic.

On Saturday I was talking to a friend about War on Drugs - in the top 3, if not top, in every best of 2014 list. Got it. Played it three times. Thought the drummer needed replacing immediately. Irritatingly monotonous drums. That hoovered up five stars. I'd give it three. If I were a U2 fan I'd knock one star off that.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 20:10:55 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

It's too late Pat. Now, it's too late. Though you really do try to fake it.

You can't reverse those commands :-)
You can try to spin my statement and the realities of many climates and events here in the GB, clockwise or counterclockwise Pat. Any way you want to . Even alter the wording I used. It doesn't matter. It's too late...

You're the guy who resorts to commands to instruct people how you want them to think. I, and for that matter Al, present our views. Neither I, nor Al, have ever attempted to command how people should think and presented them an order of thoughts they must follow and not veer off. That's your specialty. As you routinely prove. Today you actually commanded physical actions people must follow. Twice. I think it's rather impressive. I'm still laughing. I bet quite a few did.
Thanks again.
HA :-)


Entered at Mon Mar 2 20:00:48 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.182)

Posted by:

Bob F

Al, I just can't believe you only got 2. I got about a 100. lol

Rolling Stone is even worse with their 4 star ratings now which is suppose to very good stuff. I don't usually hear it.

Did you get the Springsteen download of Cleveland 1978. Now that's perfection with an exclamation point!


Entered at Mon Mar 2 19:48:08 CET 2015 from (107.77.92.54)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Nashville Skyline

It seems when we start rating Bob's records this one gets passed over. I just gave it a full listen and I'd like to put it out there to Al E's scrutinization program and find out if it qualifies too -


Entered at Mon Mar 2 19:34:57 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Jeff, I thought you dropped that cornball name-calling when it was greeted with such deafening silence. Still, throwing the term "fascist" around when you have trouble making a case is fairly lowbrow, even for you.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 19:30:05 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: The frying pan saga

Ha ha - eh Bob - how d'you think I ended up with a gob like this!!!

Mind you the stringency does mean I do owe a further explanation of the criterion.

It's something I've felt strongly about for yonks - I guess ever since the likes of Q magazine and presumably Rolling Stone started dishing out 5 stars like feckin smarties to anything that was remotely decent. It's never made sense to me.

You all know the score. Take any month and there'll often be one or two five star reviews. Well for me it undermines entirely the the whole thing.

I mean, even if we were to accept Pete's five star quality awards to say Revolver, Rubber Soul and Sgt pepper - and who would really quibble at that - then the fact that these mags are awarding identical five star quality to albums that will inevitably be forgotten about in 12 months time and will almost by default be several notches down the quality pecking order makes the thing inherently ridiculous.

The Beatles thing is a great example of how I see it all. Dylan, too. They clearly each have a glut of the genre's finest ever music and albums and in terms of their artistic status - well only the ignorant would challenge their top ranking.

Where I'd differ from pete - ever so slightly in terms of overall musical quality contribution/appreciation albeit significantly in terms of album quality/rating will inevitably be viewed by some as over-fussy analyis. To me though the small margins rank as significant in the context of what really clinches a five star billing.

If we take say Rubber Soul - then What Goes On and The Word fall short. Revolver - Love You Too and Yellow Submarine likewise much as I love the damn song. Sergeant pepper - Rita and Mr Kite.

In contrast on the Brown album and Astral weeks I don't find a solitary moment dipping below the line whilst every track closely or loosely clings to the underlying album theme.

Anyroad Bob - that my reasoning. Hope it makes some sense finicky twat as I clearly am. Ah well tea time - time for another frying pan across the mush I guess.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 19:23:05 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Thank You!

Pat, i always enjoy when you reveal your Fascistic Tea Party impulses.

Thanks for the laugh.

" Count out loud...." Twice , no less. I'm still laughing.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 19:07:14 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Was the irony too much to handle, Jeff, or did you run out of fingers?


Entered at Mon Mar 2 18:56:29 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: In All Seriousness

Did anyone besides Pete & Bill M.(it's a safe bet) follow Pat's instruction & count out loud?


Entered at Mon Mar 2 18:50:19 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

I Am The Black Gold of the Sun straight into Ramsey Lewis's Sun Goddess (with EWF). The link? Charles Stepney, genius.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 18:06:58 CET 2015 from (86.183.247.239)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: JT

By a strange coincidence, I was thinking about the Waterboys last week and why I had missed them because anything of the Waterboys or of Mike Scott's I heard I had liked.

The reason I was thinking about the Waterboys was because I'm doing a Toppermost list on Maura O'Connnell, who is a superb Irish singer, who doesn't write and she has recorded a few songs by Gerry O'Beirne, a great 12 string guitarist. I think the songs she has covered of him are great and I was reading up on him and saw that he had once toured with the Waterboys. I feel I missed Hothouse Flowers too.

I think my collection is relatively catholic and has three strands to it - Scotland, Britain and North America. I'm complete for example on Michael Marra, John Martyn, AWB and Jock Tamson's Bairns, all Scottish, which maybe takes time away from playing other bands.

Also I'll play soul, and I wonder if we Brits on the GB play more soul than the Noth Americans.

This afternoon, I have had time free from babysitting!, and have played The Band - Jericho The Best of R.E.M. Aaron Neville - Bring It On Home...the soul classics. Great album.

So Jerry, I'm not much help. But I do think often of the music I have missed.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 18:05:29 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: As Pat was saying …

LINKED: Funnily enough, the exact track I was listening to on CD (Black Gold: The Very Best of Rotary Connection) when I read Al this morning … as we see, nothing from the other guys channels into this version. BUT while this worked with The Weight for several artists, I can't see it working with (say) "King Harvest" - and hardly anyone tried.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 17:49:26 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

It's also a fact that the biggest "hits" the writers in the Band enjoyed were covers by other artists.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 17:46:39 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Count out loud how many songwriters contributed to MFBP. You should have 6 (8 if you consider the bonus tracks). You will note that Richard wrote three on his own and co-wrote the opening song. OK. Count out loud how many songwriters contributed to Brown. You should have 3. Richard wrote nothing on his own. Danko contributed nothing. No Dylan songs. No inspired covers. Stage Fright? The same. Cahoots? Five songwriters. One song that was the sole contribution of two of the writers. No Richard solo writing, a Dylan cover, and the Van thing. Now, you can promote whatever theories you may, for whatever reasons you have. The facts however are simple. Only one guy in the group took seriously the importance of songwriting. One.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 17:42:15 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.182)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: The Waterboys Islandman

JT. when you get a moment check out this beautiful Mike Scott song about the places he's called home.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 16:50:03 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: The Waterboys

Dunc: What is the view where you are regarding The Waterboys? We are excited to see them on tour and will see them in May in Victoria BC.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 16:40:03 CET 2015 from (86.183.247.239)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Al's lists

It was a great idea, Al. Some thoughts.

Many of the albums on my list I would retain, but looking at the lists made me think about several things.

Scotland -My Scottishness is reflected in my choice. Bill M being a Canadian is noticed. A Scottish band used to have to break Scotland, then move to London, and so became difficult to see up here.

I had to seek out certain albums because of my age. People 6 to 10 years older than me were into them when they came out. My introduction to the Band was 'Rag Mama Rag', which I loved and although aware of Dylan, I really come in at 'Lay Lady Lay', me being a keen collector of singles at the time. But 'Bringing It All Back Home' and 'Planet Waves' quickly followed, although I never realised at the time that the Band were playing on the latter. I wish I had not given my singles collection away.

A few of my selected albums reflected the time of writing. 'Car Wheels On A Gravel Road', 'Tell Tale Signs' and 'McFalls Orchestra' I still think are great and play, but would I replace these albums by others by the same artist?

Bereavement -On my list, Robbie McIntosh, Rick Danko, Richard Manuel, Levon Helm, Gene Clark, John Martyn and Michael Marra are no longer with us. And I would go to any John Martyn or Michael Marra concert when they played this area. Sorely missed.

If you've not got it, and you like folk music, I recommend 'The Lasses Fashion' by Jock Tamson's Bairns, also recommended by Richard Thompson in his Top Ten. This Scottish folk album matches any folk album I've heard.

Artists I play often and are not in my list. Just now I'm playing a lot of Maura O'Connell and Tom Waits. I feel my list is unfair to artists I constantly play, but did not put on my list.

Kevin - I agree that 'Before The Flood' is 'seriously underrated'.

What music in your collection has dated and what has lasted?

And thanks Al for reminding us that The Band playing together was something very special. (I know that is not a very original thought.)


Entered at Mon Mar 2 15:59:34 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Hey Rosetta and Stars concert Sun. Mar. 1, 2015

Hey Rosetta blew me away. I had no idea! Terrific songs and superb vocals and playing. Cello, and violin. French horn and other horn by great musicians hidden somewhat in the back. Excellent!. Everything audible with a good mix..

Stars: great songs but the soundman in my opinion blew it by having the instruments turned up way to loud, obscuring any chance of hearing the 2 excellent vocalists. In particular, Amy Millan was lost in the mix. It was sad because the songs are great. Disappointing. But Hey Rosetta was worth the price of admission. That is a hidden gem.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 15:43:33 CET 2015 from (129.42.208.184)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Food for Thought

Al, interesting. I hope you don't hold your meals to the same tough criteria. You would either starve or end up with a frying pan across your head.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 15:15:39 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.151)

Posted by:

Bill M

Al E: Great to hear from you, and repeatedly. And nice to be reminded of everbody's top 30s. I'd forgotten many of my own brilliant picks, including the first Rhinoceros, which JT was good enough to pick up on. To recap posts past, lead Rhino-vox, Jon Finley, had been offered the post of front man with Levon and the Hawks (post-Hawkins), did at least one show with them but decided to stick with the Checkmates. He tells of this in the Yonge Street documentary of a few years ago, and can also be heard singing "Please, Please, Please", backed by our guys. There seems to have been a view that they lacked a dynamic focus onstage at the time; they also brought back Bruce Bruno for a try, and Eugene 'Jay' Smith considered offering his services but didn't (and eventually went with Hawkins).


Entered at Mon Mar 2 13:45:30 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

As ever, a thought provoking piece from Al.

On Solomon and shekels, it is clear that if you gave five people six million dollars each (Rick talked about earning a million dollars, and an inflation calculator says multiply 1970 x 6.1 for modern values) and came back 45 years later, their wealth would differ hugely. That’s mainly apart from songwriting … though Rick’s would have included half of TWOF.

I’m also interested in how strict your A+ criterion is, so much so, that I went to The Beatles. I think three stand out as A+ immediately to your standard, all in a row too, Rubber Soul, Revolver and Sergeant Pepper. I guess if you’re being as strict as Hitler with a bad headache, you could argue that the pieces, Tomorrow Never Knows and Within You Without You are slightly jarring, or rather different, but I’d argue they fit. There’s nothing that different on Rubber Soul. So A+? The White Album is diverse, then you have Abbey Road and the American LP version of Magical Mystery Tour, the best two “Side B’s” of albums ever. But side one drops points in both cases. I think even Dylan could be somewhat troubled by that – not any track below the level of the rest.

BUT if any one member ever drops below A+ level, was there ever the perfect Liverpool side? OK, 1977 and 1981?


Entered at Mon Mar 2 13:28:12 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Al. Your posts could never be replicated by another. It's clear that in order to achieve brevity you struck a Crossroads style transaction with the Devil and relieved yourself of the remainder of your Scouse soul of which you still retained ownership. Garth, Rick, Richard, Levon, and your associated remaining Faithful Servants thank you for speaking again and your sacrifice. To quote myself, I can envisage you "smiling my way straight into Hell." as you typed.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 12:57:50 CET 2015 from (81.107.236.227)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Brum UK

Subject: Songwriting - nicely said Al

Sensitively and considerable put Al. I'm in agreement.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 12:08:01 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Perfect albums

As you might notice from my own list of favourite/greates albums I had only two as an A+.

The Brown album and Astral Weeks.

Countless others made the rank of A or A- yet only those two meet all my personal criteria to rank as perfect. It's all down to the person's own definition of 'perfect' I guess. To me it means - 'perfect' in every sense musically, lyrically, emotionally, artistically - and possibly above all - collectively.

Of course, i'd love to have Big pink in there as well as a few Brucie, Dylan, Beatles, Boz Scaggs, randy newman, REM etc etc.

The fact is as amazing as some of their stuff is with moments to die for - none satisfy all my criteria.

The criteria I apply is that every track has to stand up on its own merits as an outstanding song yet also provide something that complements the collective whole in the sense of its consistent theme. When you reflect on those criteria it is a pretty damned nigh impossible target. For me only those two albums attain it. The fact that they're both approaching 50 years old and yet nothing has managed to emulate them says something though I'm not quite sure what. KEV- fear not for LFC - we're not that far away from as good as it gets. :-0)


Entered at Mon Mar 2 11:48:42 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: The songwriting - just now an anachronism perhaps but fuck it

The ensuing reflection goes back to the time Sebastian felt compelled to defend the good name of his dad on here. I began it back then but my ridiculous daily grind commitments prevented me finding the time to finish it. I returned to it only this morning. And as the subject matter is always relevant on here and as my take on it is as ever utterly impartial in the matter I hold no reservation in posting it.

As many of the older GB residents know I’ve written at length on the issue in the past and so many of those residents will be delighted to know I will keep this take as brief as I can. Indeed I write it only out of respect for what clearly reveals itself as the unconditional love of a son for his wronged father and because I also know the genuineness of Jeff’s feelings on the matter, most notably in his sense of loyalty to Levon and Garth in particular.

When all is said and done, for me it is the uniqueness of The Band as an ensemble that clouds the whole issue and ultimately dictates what I feel to be the equitable way the matter should be viewed. It is the intrinsic alchemy between the five members at the time of their first two albums - one that in my opinion set a benchmark for popular music that surpassed anything that went before and has not been approached since - which renders the issue of the Band’s songwriting distinct from any other of which I am aware.

I feel the alchemy to which I allude was so all consuming that the songs crafted by Robbie - and let us also not forget here those of Richard too - actually evolved into living breathing extensions of the group of which they were part, inseparable from them and, as such, the unique treasures that many of us hold them to be.

Now, there are many music fans - and fans of the Band to boot - who would draw parallels in this context with a host of other artists of a band format. Why and how, they might understandably argue, does the ‘alchemy’ of The Band and the ‘unique’ treasures that stemmed from it differ from the corresponding product of their other notable contempories or for that matter other acts that went before or followed on?

To which I can only respond that such distinction cannot, of course, be proven. If the ingestion of the music of Music From Big Pink and the Brown Album does not invoke a sense that the alchemy of those two albums is apart from all others of the wider genre then the premise of the point I am making concerning the songwriting process of The Band will not stand up for those who do not see it in the same way. In contrast, those who do see that distinction will find some sense of reason in what I am saying.

Such divergence tells us we can debate it all until Kingdom Come. No doubt many will. Surely, though, there is only one thing any of us know for sure - even those who may not accept the premise of the aforesaid distinction on which I base this reflection.

That is, no matter the whys and wherefores of the songwriting process, no matter the merits and outstanding musicianship of each of the respective individuals inside and outside of The Band, it was the forging of all that individual brilliance into the unique collective magic of the original quintet and its first two inspired album offerings that truly defines the majesty to which we all now continue to bear testimony on this website and beyond.

The raw ingredients may have been of the very highest quality yet it was the alchemy transcends them.

I should now stress such a notion is, of course, not meant to carry even the tiniest semblance of disrespect for the songwriting prowess of Robbie Robertson. Robbie was irrevocably THE songwriter of our beloved ensemble. Richard may sure have pushed him close in the early stages and once may have even been evoked sentiments in his writing closer to that almost spiritual ethos to which the group as a whole seemed originally to aspire. He, however, manifestly did not possess Robbie's staying power as a writer. For such writing does, indeed, require a steadfast discipline and vocation. Perfecting the craft comes readily only to the very few.

In the final analysis Robbie - alone within the group - was the one with that requisite discipline, craft and ambition. And, at various times, he laced those basic ingredients with a dash of genius and inspired vision - shared also for a time let us never forget by Richard - which sets the great writers apart from most others of the genre.

Yet, as I’ve alluded to, that was scarcely the whole story.

The hindsight of forty odd years tuned into The Band tells me that outside of The Band as an entity it is doubtful Robbie's songs could ever have existed in the sublime form we have all come to know and adore. In any other context it is difficult to envisage many of The Band's greatest triumphs retaining anything of the same majesty when interpreted by other individuals or ensembles, less gifted, less touched by the gods than The Band to harness their parts to sustain a whole so infinitely greater than the sum of such parts. Even those later manifestations of the original group were themselves destined to fall somewhat short of the aplomb of that late sixties/early seventies zenith. Performed by other artists it seems almost inevitable that Robbie's songs would tend to pale. Again, that is not to disrespect notables such as the Staples but merely to call it as it is and was.

Yet the other simple and seemingly paradoxical truth to the preceding paragraph’s sentiment is that Robbie DID pen those songs. Whilst Levon, Richard, Rick and Garth may along with Robbie provided the magical added ingredients to mould and layer them to their ultimate exquisiteness; whilst without such vital contributions they may never have attained that uniqueness that made them what they are - it WAS still Robbie who originated them.

Robbie should be afforded the credit he both craves and fully deserves. Likewise the rest of The Band what they deserve. And how all that should flop financially? I’ll leave that to Solomon - an Old Testament judge for Old Testament music.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 10:52:00 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Sorry "long white table" / "marble."


Entered at Mon Mar 2 10:48:17 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

On the lyric, it's nearly always "on a cold white table" but I always knew it as "on the cold white marble" - don't know where that came from. We used to go to the trad jazz on the pier at Bournemouth every week, and maybe that's how that band did it. When we learned it in garage band days we did "marble." I think it improves it.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 10:45:20 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: St. James Infirmary

Excellent article, though it fails to mention the great Austin City Limits version by Van Morrison linked which conjures up the trad jazz origins. I'v also seen Van duet live with Chris Farlowe on this … phenomenal.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 10:09:41 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Web: My link

Subject: St James Infirmary Blues = The Unfortunate Rake

This webpage starts with some personal commentary from the author but once you get to the paragraph made up of the single word "Ah!", you get a lot about the background to and development of the song:

http://www.bestofneworleans.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A34686

As I moved from jazz to blues to folk in my youth, it didn't seem strange to me at all, though some friends thought it so. "St James Infirmary Blues", familiar from Louis Armstrong, fitted right in with "The Streets of Laredo", a cowboy setting of the old folk song that was reprinted in folk magazines at the time.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 09:01:39 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: You don't know what it is, do you, Mr Leitch?

Blind Willie McTell & St. James Infirmary.

At last the story can be told. Many think it similar to St James Infirmary in melody, but it is an ironic tribute to Donovan’s Cutting Out, with its immortal and highly original words:

“I went down to Joe’s Pool Room to see if she was there …”

Admittedly, Donovan’s other “originals” are noteworthy, so Ramblin’ Boy does sound exactly like It Ain’t Me Babe, and Catch The Wind has an air of Chimes of Freedom, but neither are a touch on Tangerine Eyes: “Please darling Tangerine Eyes play a song for me …”

Marianne Faithful describes Donovan playing Tangerine Eyes to Dylan. (Did she transcribe it from Eat The Document? It’s years since I saw it) He got halfway through and Dylan said:

QUOTE: “You don’t have to play any more of that. I know it.”

Donovan slightly bewildered said to Dylan, ‘You know that one, do you, eh?’

“I haven’t always been accused of writing my own songs,’ said Dylan with a perfect aphoristic pause, “But actually that’s one I did write.”

By way of explanation, Donovan said, ‘Well, I didn’t know, man. Heard it, you know … somewhere at some festival I think it was. And thought maybe it was an old folk song.”

Dylan said, “No, it’s not an old folk song yet.” END QUOTE

Marianne says it’s “A song I’m sure that’s never been heard since” but I recall watching Donovan playing it on TV and I was falling about laughing. Was it Ready, Steady, Go? This was at the time, years before seeing anything about the Dylan meeting.

But seriously … St. James Infirmary always interested me, because I first heard it played as a trad jazz band standard … they all did it with banjos and trombones. Then every fledgling R&B band did it too.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 06:41:06 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

The Band opening for Clapton at the infamous July 6, 1974 show. If you ever wanted to hear EC blow over Chest Fever, here's your chance.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 02:50:13 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

John D: Yes......Dylan had all sorts of strengths - with words quite obviously and also often with music but an area that really set him apart from his peers was an astonishing knowledge of musical history and he did borrow from that at times in some cheeky ways. Though in "Blind Willie McTell" which was a straight rewrite of "St. James Infirmery" he did gracefully doff his cap in the last verse as an acknowledgement.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 02:37:17 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Bully

No way you are leaving Neighbourhood Bully off that album. You can add Foot of Pride if you want, but it is a great piece of rock.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 02:33:37 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Rhinoceros 1

The album that no one knows (except Bill and I). - the first Rhinoceros album. By the group that somehow didn't get their due - Jon and Lee and the Checkmates evolved to a crack R&B outfit but alas, the breaks didn't come and Electra didn't capitalize on an opportunity. It is really good!.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 02:30:03 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Springsteen - only two thank you.

We all come to albums and movies at different times and that can make a difference too......I remember vividly lying in bed in Fall 1983 and the DJ saying that he had the new Bob Dylan and that he'd moved away from the religious phase and this was a brilliant new beginning....yawn, followed by some anticipation of what this could mean ( pre-Internet we were all so much more in the dark about news of this sort ), he mentioned Sly and Robbie and Mick Taylor and the the news that he was playing the entire album.......1 minute into "Jokerman" I was thrilled, then all the other beauties to follow "Sweetheart Like You", "I and I" and the perfect closing song "Don't Fall Apart on Me Tonight".......ran out to get the vinyl and nothing ever sounded better. Some years later, purchased a CD of it and the sound quality was terrible. the vinyl, though, ranks as one of the best sounding albums I have ever owned. Perfect.....and to this day, while I concede that "Foot of Pride" could have maybe replaced "Neighbourhood Bully", I don't think "Blind Willie McTell" fit on that album at all.

Tastes......As I noted earlier "Nebraska" is perfect. The only other Sprinsteen I really like and can listen to all the way through is "The River" . Wrecking Ball's first half is also superb and I still listen to it a lot. The rest of his stuff is very tough sledding.......I know "Tunnel of Love" gives both Al and Peter a chill up their legs but not me......the majority of critics rank "Rumours" a perfect album but I wouldn't want it anywhere near a desert island......Stevie Nicks 1975 another story .


Entered at Mon Mar 2 02:31:51 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

john D

Subject: Gene Autry

Kevin J. The first 9 seconds of the Autry song is absolutely reminiscent of Dylan's opening.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 01:06:08 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Broo-oo-oo-ooce

There's five, JT. NEBRASKA for me, too.


Entered at Mon Mar 2 00:04:00 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

i should probably add that i saw a lot of Bob's peformances when he was singing like that, and loved every show i went to..


Entered at Sun Mar 1 23:57:30 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Linked Willie & Bob, Pancho & Lefty. Quite a beautiful job by Willie. God bless him, Bob was in the height of his sounding like he swallowed a squirrel period.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 23:33:22 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

JT: Stars.....covered The Smiths and that makes them ok in my book.....LINKED: The Smiths "Asleep"


Entered at Sun Mar 1 23:35:20 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Nebraska

I was one of the 4 people on the planet who was not enamoured by Bruce Springsteen after the first flurry.... until Nebraska. It is perfect! It flies under the radar but it is among the best work out there by anyone.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 23:25:49 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Legs on Little Feat

I agree with all who sing the praises of the first band acknowledged by all to be the bands' band, Little Feat. They have had multiple excellent albums (listed by others) which would qualify as near perfect.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 23:23:37 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Precipitation ladies 47

Rainy Day Women grew on me in time and the drums and horns signalled the start of a great album. It wouldn't be BonB without it now. I agree when I step back that somehow it detracts, but that is still a stellar album. I guess with the definition of 'perfect' going around, if 1 song is a lesser entry, it disqualifies it. And yet, it is probably the album I listen most to. I'm in the 'airplane' desert often, and so it is my 'airplane island' album.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 23:17:44 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Stars

And now for something completely different

We are going to see Stars this evening, with opening act, Hey Rosetta. Kevin will probably know Stars (Toronto and Montreal) with 7 albums and 4 EPs since 1999. Highly regarded. Hey Rosetta from Nfld. Check them all out on You Tube. Last minute. Row 2. The luck of a small city. They just played Vancouver. Then off to Seattle, Portland, San Francisco (sold out) and Los Angeles. Dinner and a show on a Sunday. Sweet.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 22:14:19 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: The original Rainy Day Women 12&35 by Gene Autry.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 19:46:51 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Sailin' Shoes

Definitely my choice too for Little Feat.

I can't say that Side 4 of Blonde on Blonde ever got played as much as Sides 1 & 2 and 3. So it's not even. But I love Rainy Day Women though I have been known to skip Leopard Skin Pill Box Hat, and often.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 19:42:04 CET 2015 from (188.31.209.33)

Posted by:

Robin

Subject: lists

I get fed up with same old 100 best album lists. I would also have to pick sailin shoes as the best little Feat album.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 19:17:35 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Do note that Al's list had its origins more in a desert island way than in a listing of "perfect" albums........the reasoning behind having Before The Flood for me I would guess was having the best of two favourite artists........anyway, Wallsend had initiated this latest conversation by pointing to The Band album and Abraxas as perfection to make a point.......agree completely on both of them.....A perfect album for me is simply one that I love and that I can put on the turntable and enjoy every song. Nebraska comes to mind, as does Wish You Were Here.......... Blonde on Blonde - as great as it is is disqualified due to the openning song.......and I hated having to drop the needle down anywhere but the start...not perfect when that happens.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 13:07:56 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Patsy Cline

I'll link the Patsy Cline as well. The vocal control is stunning.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 13:03:59 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Rhiannon Giddens

Rhiannon Giddens was the most interesting artist on the New Basement Tapes, and I'm enjoying her new solo album. The bravest track is She's Got You, which was after all written specifically for Patsy Cline, and whose version is sublime. But the justification for me is dropping that dated male chorus in favor of "Country got Soul" horns. Also that insistent piano part gets replaced by guitars - Colin Linden and T-Bone Burnett. There is still some backing vocal, but further back. Try it. It's linked. You'll find the Patsy Cline on the same page in YouTube.

Colin Linden plays right through the album for a Band(ish) connection.

Autocorrection laugh: insistent got autocorrected to "in his tent". Good job I read it.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 11:56:20 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: "INFIDELS"

Much as I like the releases of "Mr Bob", I don't think I could call INFIDELS a perfect album. I think my view would have been the same anyway but the circumstances of the release were not propitious.

I seem to recall that certain out-takes were circulating at the same time the album came out, so some of Dylan's song choices (what to include on the album and what not) were known and received adverse comments. On top of this, Knopfler was saying that, having played on and mixed the tracks with Dylan, the latter had overdubbed and "resang" some of the vocals. And it is believed that at least half the songs had new vocals. I suspect that one of the problems was that Dylan had little experience of overdubbing at that time. The basic sessions took place in early May 1983 (Dylan and Knopfler having a falling out at the mixing stage) and the subsequent overdubbing and remixing wasn't finished for another 2 months.

Perhaps INFIDELS will end up being reissued in the BOOTLEG SERIES, rather like ANOTHER SELF PORTRAIT.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 11:28:09 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Stone in My Pocket

Great job, Al. Again. I spent a long time perusing the list that also shows our “personal choices” outside the main stream. I reckon we definitely under-did Paul Simon. Graceland and Hearts and Bones definitely. Bridge Over Troubled Water by S&G. Personal preference for S & G is Bookends.

Bookends isn’t a perfect album though. By their own admission they were three tracks short of an album. The first addition was inspired … Mrs Robinson … but A Hazy Shade of Winter and At The Zoo were added to fill it and they don’t fit.

On consensus, it’s interesting what fan mags choose on polls. I know “Visions of Johanna” was rightly first song in a major Dylan fan poll. I assume Blonde on Blonde is pretty much the consensus for best Bob, though Blood On The Tracks edges it a few “Greatest Albums Ever” lists.

I’m still puzzled by the universal acclaim for Exile on Main Street, as I have been for 43 years. When I found Mick didn’t think it their best , I felt actual relief as I thought I was alone in the world. I’m sure Mick doesn’t like it because it’s Keef’s album. Also, the Stones explode on their Greatest Hits / Best of compilations, and Tumbling Dice is the only guaranteed member, with Happy and Sweet Virginia as runners up. They’re so often a “singles band.” Basically “Forty Licks” really does contain the cream. Though I also have the singles collection and EP collection on replica CDs. There was a period around 1964 to 1965 when my answer to “Beatles or Stones?” was always Stones.

My Top Ten Stones original LPs then, no compilations:

1) Let It Bleed

2) The Rolling Stones (1st album)

3) Sticky Fingers

4) The Rolling Stones N. 2 (UK)

5) Beggars’ Banquet

6) Some Girls

7) Out of Our Heads (UK)

8) 12 x 5 (US)

9) Aftermath (UK)

10) Goats’ Head Soup

But Exile would deservedly get that 11th place … just edging out Black and Blue. Yes, I know I’m a cretin. I know no one agrees. So I will play Exile On Main Street today (I bought the LP the day it came out and really expected to love it, the CD and the CD remaster) and await that Road to Damascus moment.

I suspect it has, for me, a Cahoots effect. It came right after three I love: Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers. I played and played it expecting to love it, but it didn’t happen then. Or with the CD. Nor with the CD remaster. I find it “generic.”


Entered at Sun Mar 1 10:17:39 CET 2015 from (219.89.221.66)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: perfect albums - MFBP

As much as I love Music From Big Pink I wouldn't say it was a perfect album. I love every song on it but as an album it's half Basement Tapes and half Stage Fright. I think this is mostly due to it be recorded at several different studios and the boys still finding their sound. (compare the slickness of Wheels on Fire or I shall be Released to Kingdom Come or We Can Talk). Don't get me wrong - I do think its one of the greatest records of all time.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 07:01:50 CET 2015 from (24.114.68.150)

Posted by:

Kevin J

JT: Thanks for the laugh.....oh those Fords, they haunt us still.

News Flash: Legendary GB poster Al Edge is said to be in serious condition this evening.....when asked for comment, his family ruled out it having anything to do with the dismal state of the Liverpool football club or Bruce Sprinsteen's last album but rather made a startling claim that - and we quote "the physical collapse is completely down to the effort needed to type all those gawd damn backslash N's in his most recent GB post"

Looking back at those lists from years ago, a couple of things stand out......I had far too many compilations but was glad to see some consistency in my preferences for "Every Picture Tells a Story", "Infidels", "The Band" and "Pleased To Meet Me".........also only 7 of the 25 listees are still posting........and I was the only one to have "Abraxas "...............and a most stunning revelation........Norm Jones' debut album tied the mighty Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" with 1 vote each.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 06:45:32 CET 2015 from (58.104.23.126)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I am surprised that Rock of Ages came in as low as 17. I listen to that and the TLW more than the studio albums.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 05:19:21 CET 2015 from (63.142.158.9)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Good ones, stem to stern!

Consider:

Dave Mason - Alone Together

Tom Waits - Swordfishtrombones/Rain Dogs - could be a double LP; they followed each other chronologically

P Simon - Graceland, a safe choice for the best of the 80's

JJ Cale - Naturally

Dave Alvin - King of California

Billy Bragg/Wilco - Mermaid Ave #1

Jimmie Dale Gilmore - After Awhile

Dan Penn - Moments From This Theatre.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 03:57:16 CET 2015 from (96.30.173.135)

Posted by:

joe j

Wow.

Al, times haven't changed all that much. After all this time I'd stick to my guns. Might not put a Lightfoot album in my top twenty but if I was after just listening to it who knows. No Coltrane, Cohen or Miles either. 'Tell Tale Signs' might not have been released at the time.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 01:33:34 CET 2015 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Perfect albums

I do still pop in from time to time to have a dekko and I’ve just seen the perfect album selections.

God knows how I actually found the time back then to do something like this but some years ago we did a GREATEST album poll on here. Anyroad, it might make interesting reading for those who are arsed.

The points totals were based on 20 points for a top choice down to 1 point for bottom choice.

I’ve posted all the individual choices as well, so you can see from some of the postings that the final list can only ever be at best a reasonable representation – not a definitively accurate list, especially as some folks limited their choices to one album per artist whilst others were not definitive. Still, I think I’ve got the final order about right, though the final few were pretty close so anyone who’s a bit precious about their choice not figuring might wish to give me a bit of grief.

All in all I think it makes good fun to view it. Certainly better than a smacked arse. :-0)

Also I really do think it’s a pretty damn fine list all told. Some amazing music on it

For the definitive BAND website, the final GB selection of the top 2 is hardly surprising but Pete Viney , Rob and a few more will no doubt be a trifle disappointed that Stagefright couldn’t budge dear old Bob into a top 3 place.

All told as I see it there are few in the way of real surprises [perhaps others disagree :-0)] in the CUMULATIVE list, but I think some of the individual lists really do make for fascinating reading – especially SM’s list. ;-0)

Seriously, some of the “recommendations” are well worth looking into – as I’ve already done myself with one or two. Also, it’s fascinating seeing how the musical taste buds of each GBer tend to work.

Anyroad here it is:-

1] 391 points - The Band – Brown Album

2] 317 points – The Band – Big Pink

3] 182 points - Bob Dylan – Blonde on Blonde

4] 158 points – Bob Dylan – Highway 61

5] 126 points – The Band – Stagefright

6] 96 points – Van the man – Astral Weeks [yippee]

7] 83 points – The Beatles - Revolver

8] 72 points – Bob Dylan – Blood on the Tracks

9] 69 points – The Beatles – Abbey Road

10] 67 points – Rolling Stones – Exile on Main Street

11] 64 points – Bob Dylan – Bringing it All Back Home

12] 63 points – The Beatles – Rubber Soul

13] 47 points – Bob Dylan & The Band – Basement Tapes

14] 45 points – The Wailers/Bob Marley – Catch A Fire

15] 43 points – Joni Mitchell – Blue

16] 40 points – Marvin Gaye – What’s Going On [- you might well ask Marvin, lad]

17] 39 points – The Band – Rock of Ages

18] 38 points – Rolling Stones – Let it Bleed

19] 33 points – Little Feat – Feats Don’t Fail Me Now

20] 31 points – Bruce Springsteen – Born to Run

AND HERE ARE THE INDIVIDUAL SELECTIONS IN ALL THEIR GLORY

PVINEY

1) The Band: The Band

2) Blonde on Blonde: Bob Dylan

3) Magical Mystery Tour (US version): The Beatles

4) What’s Going On: Marvin Gaye

5) Beautiful Vision – Van Morrison

6) Catch A Fire – The Wailers (Al, no Bob on the sleeve, that’s what an original copy says, anyway!)

7) Stage Fright – The Band

8) Abbey Road – The Beatles

9) Graceland – Paul Simon

10) Surf’s Up – The Beach Boys

11) Astral Weeks – Van Morrison

12) Let It Bleed – The Rolling Stones

13) Street Legal – Bob Dylan

14) Music From Big Pink – The Band

15) Otis Blue- Otis Redding

16) Eddie Cochran Memorial Album – Eddie Cochran

17) The Golden Hits of The Everly Brothers – Everly Brothers (1st Warner Bros compilation)

18) Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band – The Beatles

19) Hearts & Bones – Paul Simon

20) Recall The Beginning – Steve Miller Band

DLEW

The Band: The Band

MFBP: The band

Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy: Elton John

Innervisions: Stevie Wonder

Aqualung: Jethro Tull

Thick as a Brick: Jethro Tull

Night at the Opera: Queen

Led Zeppelin III

Live 75-85: Bruce Springsteen adn the E Street Band

shotgun willie: willie nelson

Highway 61: Dylan

Exile on Main Street: the rolling Stones

Who's Next: The Who

My Aim is True: Elvis Costello

Man arriving too late to save a sinking ship/ The Man from Utiopia: Frank Zappa

John Wesley Harding; Bob Dylan

Dirt Farmer: Levon Helm

Tonic for the Troops: Teh Boomtown Rats

Romantic Warrior: Return to Forever

JED

1.Dylan/Band-Basement Tapes

2.Band-MFBP

3.Beatles-Abbey Road

4.Beatles-Revolver

5.Band-Rock of Ages

6.Derek & the Dominos-Layla

7.Dylan-Blond on Blond

8.Dylan-Blood on the Tracks

9.Dylan-Time Out Of Mind

10.Gregg Allman-Laid Back

11.CSNY-Deja Vu

12.Neil Young-Tonite's the Night

13.Hendrix-Blues Album

14.Hendrix- Electric Ladyland

15.Grateful Dead-Europe '72

16.Cream-Disraeli Gears

17.George Harrison-All Things Must Pass

18.John Lennon-Imagine

19.Rolling Stones- Exile on Main Street

20.AllmanBrothers Band-Live @ Fillmore East

RTO

BAND: MFBP, THE BAND, STAGE FRIGHT (3); In no specific preference – the mighty triumvirate presented as a whole.

BEATLES: ABBEY ROAD, RUBBER SOUL, REVOLVER, LET IT BE (7); Abbey Road is favourite; wouldn’t like to order the rest! As well as the Fabs own undoubted genius; the organist in me pines for the late Billy Preston – IMHO the greatest Hammond player who ever lived and is ever likely to!

FRANK ZAPPA: HOT RATS (8); Absolutely Free would probably be next, but one Frank disc for a 20 album desert island scenario would be enough and it would have to be this, as much for “Peaches” as, of course, “Willie The Pimp” which also represents the good Captain and explains the absence of Trout M R here.

GRATEFUL DEAD: GD (1ST), AOXOMOXOA, AMERICAN BEAUTY, EUROPE 72 (12); To be honest could find 10-12 GD LPs but that would make the list boring!

BRINSLEY SCHWARZ: SILVER PISTOL (13); It’s a tough call between this and “Despite It All” the preceded it and “Nervous On The Road” that followed; Silver Pistol is the strongest of you take individual favourite moments away.

JEFFERSON AIRPLANE: AFTER BATHING AT BAXTERS (14); Or possibly “Bless Its Pointed Little Head”? No, “Baxters” it is!

HOT TUNA: BURGERS (15); The first proper all-electric, full-band studio venture and so much more rewarding than the last few JA releases.

TRAFFIC: TRAFFIC (2ND LP) (16); A life changer for me; when this one started to get played more than other UK heavyweights (Cream, Stones, JH Exp) I realised it was the Hammond that had captivated me. Have had a bad back ever since.

MAN: BE GOOD TO YOURSELF AT LEAST ONCE A DAY (17); The UK’s nearest equivalent to a Frisco-style act, this ’72 studio effort saw them at their lightest, trippiest and best. RIP Micky Jones (guitar) and thanks for some great gigs. The nearest I ever got to supporting a football team!

STEVE MILLER BAND: SAILOR (18); From the opening foghorns to the closing notes of “Living In The USA”; the opening side of this second album is damn near perfection. Not that side two is exactly shoddy….

GRAHAM PARKER & THE RUMOUR: HEAT TREATMENT (19); GP’s second offering and a close call between this and “Stick To Me” that followed; edged by the stellar instrumental work of Brinsley & Bob on “That’s What They All Say” where instrumental muscle is most definitely flexed in a way never possible in Brinsley Schwarz days.

SHEL SILVERSTEIN: FREAKIN’ AT THE FREAKERS’ BALL (20); Yes, an oddball – but what’s not to love? The cover alone shows possibly the most chaotic assortment of people crowded round the piano just to get you interested, and then the treats of “Thumbsucker”, “I Got Stoned and I Missed It” and the wonderful title track among other moments. A deceptively frequent listen in my house!

FRED

The Band --The Band

Quadrophenia -- The Who

Feats Don't Fail Me Now -- Little Feat

Thanks I'll Eat It Here -- Lowell George

Sg.t Pepper's -- The Beatles

Black Sea -- XTC

English Settlement -- XTC

London Calling -- The Clash

Led Zeppelin IV -- Led Zeppelin

The Cars -- The Cars

Regatta De Blanc -- The Police

Party of One -- Nick Lowe

Cafe' Bleu -- The Style Council

Album III -- Loudon Wainwright III

Flood -- They Might Be Giants

Document -- R.E.M.

Crime of the Century -- Supertramp

The Joshua Tree -- U2

The Stranger -- Billy Joel

Let It Bleed -- Rolling Stones

BEG

Bob Marley...All Recordings - [ assumed Catch a Fire]

Robbie Robertson...Contact From The Underworld of Redboy

The Band...Music From Big Pink

The Band...Stage Fright

The Band...Brown Album

Garland Jeffreys...Ghostwriter

Mink DeVille...Cabretta

Van Morrison...Astral Weeks

Van Morrison...Into The Music

Van Morrison...Poetic Champions

Bob Dylan...Bringing It All Back Home

Bob Dylan...Highway 61 Bob Dylan...Blonde On Blonde

Bob Dylan...Blood On The Tracks

Bob Dylan...Desire

Bob Dylan...Slow Train Coming

Lou Reed...The Velvet Underground and Nico

Lou Reed...Rock and Roll Animal

Joni Mitchell...Court and Spark

Amy Winehouse...Back To Black Deluxe Edition

MICHELLE

1. Highway 61 - Bob Dylan

2.Music from Big Pink - The Band

3.Exile on Main Street - The Rolling Stones

4.Blonde on Blonde - Bob Dylan

5.The Band - The Band

6.New Boots and Panties - Ian Dury

7.Ziggy Stardust - David Bowie

8.Solid Air - John Martyn

9. Kaya - Bob Marley

10. Blood on the Tracks - Bob Dylan

11.Armed Forces - Elvis Costello

12. Astral Weeks - Van Morrison

13. Closing Time - Tom Waits 1

4. London Calling - The Clash

15. Basement Tapes - The Band

16. Transformer - Lou Reed

17. Tupelo Honey - Van Morrison

18. Harlem River Blues - Justin Townes Earle

19. Catch a Fire - Bob Marley

20. Legend - Townes Van Zandt

BILL M

I would take two or three by our guys,

one by Spirit (12 Dreams),

one Moby Grape (first),

one Fred Eaglesmith (Tinderbox),

a Stones (Let it Bleed),

the first Rhinoceros,

Pearl,

Moondance,

Randy Newman's Sail Away,

the Chilliwack with Lonesome Mary,

the second Sly and Family Stone,

Funkadelic's America Eats its Young,

Crowbar's Bad Manors,

Cockburn's Nothing but a Burning Light,

Traffic's second,

Robbie's Music for the Native Americans

BOB W

The Band ---- The Band

Music From Big Pink ---- The Band

Astral Weeks ---- Van Morrison

Rubber Soul ---- The Beatles

Tumbleweed Connection ---- Elton John

Hunky Dory ---- David Bowie

Caravanserai ---- Santana

Bridge Over Troubled Water ---- Simon and Garfunkel

McCartney ---- McCartney

Little Village ---- Little Village

Now That I’ve Found You ---- Alison Krauss

Irish Heartbeat ---- Van Morrison and the Chieftains

Little Victories ---- Darden Smith

Layla & Other Assorted Love Songs ---- Derek and the Dominos

Songbird –--- Eva Cassidy

Late for the Sky ---- Jackson Browne

Get Your Leeds Lungs Out ---- Stones Boot

What a Crying Shame ---- The Mavericks

Psychoderelict (Abridged)---- Pete Townshend

2000 Year Old Man ---- Carl Reiner & Mel Brooks

SM

Anything by Simon and Garfunkel.

DEB

1. Music From Big Pink, the Band

2. Tupelo Honey, Van Morrison

3. Whiskey Before Breakfast, Norman Blake

4. Running on Empty, Jackson Browne

5. All Around Man, Lonnie Pitchford

6. Hard Again, Muddy Waters

7. Quarter Moon in a Ten Cent Town, Emmylou Harris

8. Mark Twang, John Hartford

9. High, Low and In Between, Townes Van Zandt

10. Where'd You Hide the Body, James Mc Murtry

11. The Houston Kid, Rodney Crowell

12. Dublin Blues, Guy Clark

13. Storyville, Robbie Robertson

14. Joshua Judges Ruth, Lyle Lovett

15. Blood on the Tracks, Bob Dylan

16. The River, Bruce Springsteen

17. All the Roadrunning, Mark Knopfler and Emmylou Harris 18. Wild Tchoupitoulas, Wild Tchoupitoulas

19. La Toussaint, Steve Riley and the Mamou Playboys

20. Red Headed Stranger, Willie Nelson

BRIAN SZ

1. Rock of Ages (remaster)

2. Stage Fright (remaster)

3. Yes, Yessongs

4. Jon Anderson, Olias of Sun Hillow

5. Robbie- Contact

6. Brian Setzer, Dirty Boogie

7. Pink Floyd, Wish You Were Here

8. Pink Floyd, Dark Side (i could live without Money)

9. John Mellencamp - Scarecrow

10. U2, Joshua Tree

11. U2 Achtung Baby

12. Evan Lurie, Selling Water by the Riverside

13. Dylan, Live 66

14. Dave Matthews Live at Fenway Park

15. Dave Matthews Big Whiskey

16. Ollabelle, Before This Time

17. Pearl Jam, Ten

18. Allison Krauss and Union Station Live

19. Kimm Rogers, Soundtrack of my Life

20. Kid Rock, Rock-n-Roll Jesus

DAVID P

(1)"The Band" -- The Band (Capitol green label "RL" pressing)

(2)"Live at the Fillmore East" -- Allman Brothers Band (Capricorn pink label)

(3)"Absolutely Free" -- The Mothers of Invention (Verve mono)

(4)"Aretha Now" -- Aretha Franklin (Atlantic)

(5)"2 Guitars Country Style" -- Speedy West & Jimmy Bryant (Capitol mono)

(6)"Portrait in Jazz" -- Bill Evans Trio (Riverside mono)

(7)"Sibelius Symphony No. 2" -- Sir John Barbirolli cond. The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra (Chesky)

(8)"Julie Is Her Name" -- Julie London (Liberty mono)

(9)"12 Songs" -- Randy Newman (Warner white label promo)

(10)"Dixie Chicken" -- Little Feat (Mobile Fidelity reissue

(11)"Blonde On Blonde" -- Dylan (Columbia mono)

(12)"Blood On The Tracks" -- Dylan (Columbia white label promo)

(13)"Surrealistic Pillow" -- Jefferson Airplane (RCA mono) (

14)"Moby Grape 69" -- Moby Grape (Columbia 360 stereo 1A pressing)

(15)"Very Extremely Dangerous" -- Eddie Hinton (Capricorn)

(16)"Music From Big Pink" -- The Band (Mobile Fidelity 1982 reissue)

(17)"Changes" -- Buddy Fite (Cyclone Records)

(18)"Way Out West" -- Sonny Rollins (Comtemporary Records mono)

(19)"Here's Little Richard" -- Richard Penniman (Specialty mono)

(20)"Beethoven Symphony No. 6 'Pastorale'" -- Bruno Walter cond. Columbia Symphony Orchestra (Columbia "6-eye" stereo)

ROGER

1. Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan

2. The Band - The Band

3. Blue - Joni Mitchell

4. Stage Fright - The Band

5. Rubber Soul - The Beatles

6. The Rolling Stones No. 2 - The Rolling Stones

7. Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone - Yo-Yo and Ennio

8. Blonde on Blonde - Bob Dylan

9. Fisherman's Blues - The Waterboys

10. Arthur - The Kinks

11. Hearts and Bones - Paul Simon

12. Live In London - Leonard Cohen

13. Do You Believe In Magic? - The Lovin' Spoonful

14. The Alamo - Original Soundtrack - Dmitri Tiomkin

15. In The Wind - Peter, Paul and Mary

16. The Ghost of Tom Joad - Bruce Springsteen

17. Astral Weeks - Van Morrison

18. Quiet Please - Nick Lowe

19. Bruch Violin Concerto - played by JItzhak Perlman

20. Live at the Troubador - Carole King and James Jaylor

TODD

1. The Band - The Band

2. Bringing It All Back Home - Bob Dylan

3. Revolver - The Beatles

4. I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You - Aretha Franklin

5. The Genius of Ray Charles - Ray Charles

6. The Great Otis Redding Sings Soul Ballads - Otis Redding

7. Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs - Derek And The Dominos

8. Exile On Main Street - Rolling Stones

9. Dirt Farmer - Levon Helm

10. Before This Time - Ollabelle

11. Hard Again - Muddy Waters

12. The River - Bruce Springsteen

13. King of The Delta Blues Singers - Robert Johnson

14. Moondance - Van Morrison

15. Being There - Wilco

16. Come Away With Me - Norah Jones

17. Heartbreaker - Ryan Adams

18. Lucinda Williams - Lucinda Williams

19. Bring The Family - John Hiatt

20. Reckoning - REM

KEVIN

1. “Anthology” – Chuck Berry ( the best “best of” of his - a 2 disc collection that is stunning )

2. “Arthur” – The Kinks

3. “Word of Mouth” – The Kinks

4. “The Band” - The Band

5. “Every Picture Tells A Story” – Rod Stewart

6. “Pleased to Meet Me” – The Replacements

7. “All for Nothing” – The Replacements

8. “The Sky is Crying” - Stevie Ray Vaughn

9. “Abraxas” – Santana ( Hearing “Samba Pa Ti” mid 70’s is the reason I picked up the guitar….)

10. “Love and Theft” – Bob Dylan

11. “Infidels” – Bob Dylan

12. “Before the Flood” – Bob Dylan & Band ( ridiculously underrated and a good way to get many great songs from both )

13. “Bootleg Vols 1-3” – Bob Dylan ( for the cuts left off “Infidels” and many unknown treats )

14. CCR – Best of CCR ( The green and gold one……………………..essential – at least for me )

15. “I’m Your Man” - L. Cohen

16. “Live Bullet” – Bob Seger ( the best live rock album of all time in my opinion )

17. .”Complete Greatest Hits” – Gordon Lightfoot ( by far the best of the many compilations he has out )

18. “Live at Ronnie Scott's" – Jeff Beck

19. “Hot Rocks” Rolling Stones

20. “1969-1974” – David Bowie

DUNC

The Band - TheBand

Music From Big Pink - The Band

NLSC - The Band

Blonde on Blonde - Dylan

The Basement Tapes -Dylan and the Band

Tell Tale Signs - Bob Dylan

A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles

Let it Be- The Beatles

Talking Book - Stevie Wonder

White Album - AWB

Comes A Time - Neil Young

Deja Vu - CSNY

Michael Marra with Mr McFall's Chamber

Solid Air - John Martyn

Grace and Danger -John Martyn

Exile on Main Street - Rolling Stones \

Car Wheels on a Gravel Road - Lucinda Williams

There Goes Rhymin Simon - Paul Simon

Mr Tambourine Man - The Byrds

The Lasses Fashion - Jock Tamson's Bairns

JD’s

01. Beatles - Beatlemania( Canadian version of the American Meet The Beatles.)

02. The Band-The Band

03. Bob Dylan - Bringing It All Back Home

04. Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde

05. Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited

06. Elton John - Tumbleweed Connection

07. Neil Young - After The Goldrush

08. Van Morrison - Astral Weeks

09. Joni Mitchell - Blue

10. Ry Cooder - Paradise and Lunch

11. Crosby Stills Nash - Crosby Still Nash (1st album)

12. Dan Penn - Do Right Man

13. Simon & Garfunkel - Parsley Sage Rosemary & Thyme

14. Mamas & Papas - History of Mamas & Papas

15. Johnny Rivers - Realization

16. Otis Redding - Live In Europe

17. Aretha Franklin - The Very Best of Aretha Franklin: The 60's

18. Bob Dylan - Blood On The Tracks

19. Fats Domino - Out of New Orleans (8 CD Set)

20. The Searchers - The Very Best of The Searchers

EMPTY NOW

5th best favorite Rock album ever – Jackson Browne : Running on Empty

4th best favorite Rock album ever – Crosby Stills Nash & Young : Four Way Street

3rd best favorite Rock album ever – Paul Simon : Live Rhymin'

2nd best favorite Rock album ever – The Blues Brothers movie soundtrack

1st best favorite Rock album ever - ??????????????????????????

JOE J

1. MFBP (my most beloved recording)

2. Brown Album

3. Highway 61

4. Blonde on Blonde

5. Love & Theft

6. Moondance

7. Blue

8. Are You Experienced

9. What's Going On

10. Innervisions

11. Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere

12. Tonights the Night (Young)

13. Never A Dull Moment

14. Layla

15. Summer Side of Life

16. Exile on Main Street (on one level I know that Beggars may be better but this is what I listen to more)

17. Shoot Out The Lights

18. Wrecking Ball

19. Being There

20. Paul Simon

SIMON

1) & 2) "The Band" and "Music From Big Pink"

3) & 4) "Jazz Track" and "Kind of Blue" - Miles Davis

5) "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" - Joni Mitchell

6) "Revolver" - The Beatles [I'd never try to claim any kind of original insight when it comes to the Beatles but is there an album of theirs that mentions death so frequently? "My advice for those who die / Died and was buried along with her name / Before I'm a dead old man / I know what it's like to be dead / It is not dying" Perhaps there's more but this marks it out as the truly lysergic album in their canon. Having to confront this reality, something that unites us all. Also it's an impolite sounding album and one that is perhaps great because of the compression and limiting applied, not despite it.]

7) "Let It Bleed" - The Rolling Stones [If compilations were allowed I wouldn't hesitate to pick Rolled Gold. Essential.]

8) "There It Is" - James Brown

9) "Electric Ladyland" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience [Always like what Bill Hicks said about the aliens dropping him off on earth "We'll pick you up in twenty-seven years. You show 'em how it's done, kid."]

10) "There's a Riot Goin' On" - Sly and the Family Stone

11) "Quadrophenia" - The Who [the remixed double CD released mid '90s. This is so much improved. An album that has gotten me through some tough times. Some of the greatest, most concise lyrics ever: "Why didn't I say what I mean / I should've split home at fifteen / There's a story that the grass is so green" and "I know I should fight / but my old man, he's really alright"]

12) "Can't Buy a Thrill" - Steely Dan

13) "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady" - Charlie Mingus

14) "Physical Graffiti" - Led Zeppelin [Side three of the original album is one of favourite sequences ever. The fact they annoy so many people makes me love them all the more. Julie, wherefore art thou?]

15) "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" - Pink Floyd

16) "album" - Public Image Ltd [What's that? You don't like the big 'eighties' drum sound? That'll be Tony Williams and Ginger Baker. John Lydon often tries to see things from the view of people who have been victims - Annalisa, Poptones and, in this case, Rise - one of the reasons I love the guy. "Logic is lost in your/Cranial abattoir" Know what you mean, John]

17) "Morrison Hotel" - The Doors [Yes, you read that right. BTW where's Dylan?]

18) "You Are What You Is" - Frank Zappa [Reagan era satire that targets yuppies, joggers, Deadheads and much more.]

19) "In the Right Place" - Dr John [I considered Gris-Gris because it's so unique ... I also wanted to include Fire on the Bayou by The Meters. This is a nice compromise. "Life" is a beautiful song. A tip of the brim to Deb for The Wild Tchoupitoulas. I'll always regret not buying that one when it was in print.]

20) "Popular Classics for Spanish Guitar" - Julian Bream

LANDMARK

1) Holland-Beach Boys,

2) Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere-Neil Young and Crazy Horse,

3) The Band-The Band,

4) Something/Anything-Todd Rundgren

5) C.S.N.Y.-Deja Vu.

WESTCOASTER

After All This Time - - Norm Jones

Eagles - - Greatest Hits

Honky Tonk Heroes - - Waylon

Merle Haggard - Collectors Editon

Stacked Deck - Too Stuffed to Jump - - Amazing Rythm Aces

Brown Album - - The BAND

Tupelo Honey - - Van Morrison

Premonition - - John Fogerty

Brothers In Arms - - Dire Straits

Chuck Berry - Definitive Collection

Neil Young - - Greatest Hits

Best of the BAND

Jimmy Buffet - - Songs You Know By Heart

Mark Knopfler & Emmylou Harris - All The Road Running

Boz Skaggs - - Silk Degrees

Best of Ed Bruce

St Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Born in The USA - - Springsteen

JON LYNESS

The Band – Music from Big Pink

The Band – The Band

The Band – Stage Fright

Bob Dylan – Modern Times

Bob Dylan – Blonde on Blonde

Bob Dylan – Highway 61

Brian Wilson – Smile

The Beatles – The White Album

The Beatles – Abbey Road

Rolling Stones – Exile on Main Street

John Hammond – Wicked Grin

Levon Helm – Dirt Farmer

Lucinda Williams – Car Wheels on a Gravel Road

Bobby Charles – Bobby Charles

Hem -- Rabbit Songs The Waifs – SunDirtWater

Eric Andersen – You Can’t Relive the Past

Gillian Welch – Revival

Squirrel Nut Zippers – Hell

Buena Vista Social Club -- Buena Vista Social Club

BOB F

1. Blood on the Tracks - Bob Dylan

2. Blonde on Blonde - Bob Dylan

3. Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan

4. Bringing It All Back Home - Bob Dylan

5. Born to Run - Bruce Springsteen

6. The Band (Brown) - The Band

7. Music From Big Pink - The Band

8. Eli & The Thirteenth Confession - Laura Nyro

9. Darkness on the Edge of Town - Bruce Springsteen

10.Every Picture Tells a Story - Rod Stewart

11.Fisherman's Blues - The Waterboys

12.The White Album - The Beatles

13.Sticky Fingers - The Rolling Stones

14.Horses - Patti Smith

15.Stage Fright - The Band

16.Time Out of Mind - Bob Dylan

17.New York Tendaberry - Laura Nyro

18.Nebraska - Bruce Springsteen

19.Not a Pretty Girl - Ani Difranco

20.John Wesley Harding - Bob Dylan

PAT B

Miles Davis-In A Silent Way

Leonard Bernstein-Rhapsody in Blue/American In Paris

Bill Evans-Live At The Village Vanguard

Weather Report-Black Market

Jon Langford-Goldbrick

Little Feat-Feats Don't Fail me Now

The Band-MFBP

Aaron Copland-Columbia Collected Works (Appalachian Spring/Rodeo)

Van Morrison-St. Dominic's Preview

Tears For Fears-Sowing The Seeds of Love

Tomita-Snowflakes Are Dancing

Pat Metheny-PMG

Jethro Tull-Stand Up

Beatles-Rubber Soul

The Rascals-Groovin'

Marvin Gaye-What's Goin On

Annie Lennox-Medusa

Nuggets-Vol. 1

Bob Dylan-Highway 61 Revisited

Robbie Robertson-Storyville

AL EDGE

Joint 1] The Band – The Band and Astral Weeks - Van Morrison [both quality A+]

3] Music from Big Pink – The Band [A]

4] Highway 61 Revisited – Bob Dylan [A]

5] Revolver – Beatles [A]

6] Darkness on the Edge of Town – Bruce Springsteen [A]

7] Born to Run – Bruce Springsteen [A]

8] Blonde on Blonde – Bob Dylan [A]

9] Tunnel of Love – Bruce Springsteen [A-]

10] Murmur – REM [A-]

11] There’s a Riot Going On – Sly and Family Stone [A-]

12] 12 Songs – Randy Newman [A-]

13] Catch a Fire – Bob Marley and Wailers [A-]

14] Abbey Road – Beatles [A-]

15] Swordfishtrombones – Tom Waits [A-]

16] Basement tapes – Bob Dylan/Band [A-]

17] Stand – Sly and Family Stone [A-]

18] Exile on Main Street – Rolling Stones [A-]

19] Talking Book – Stevie Wonder [A-]

20] Fantastic Expedition – Gene Clark and Doug Dillard [A-]

The number of individual selections of each poster that accord with cumulative GB top 20

P VINEY – 9

DLEW – 4

JED - 8

RTO – 6

FRED – 3

BEG – 9

MICHELLE – 9

Bill M – 3

BOB W – 4

DEB – 3

SM – 0

BRIAN SZ – 2

DAVID P – 4

ROGER – 7

TODD – 5

KEVIN -1

DUNC – 5

JD – 7

EMPTY NOW – 0

JOE J – 7

SIMON – 4

LANDMARK – 1

WESTIE – 1

JON LYNESS – 7

BOB F – 8

PAT B - 4

Al E – 11


Entered at Sun Mar 1 00:41:14 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Truth is beauty

The futility of an empty exercise becomes imminently clearer as the votes accumulate. Why is a question asked when the answer is obvious? Nothing against AC; the music is good: but come on, no matter how many votes and how many computers enter votes, The Band is victorious for quality and cultural impact. Its nice to win any competition but what is better is to know what is truth. No unhappy to lose this one because 'truth is beauty and beauty truth'. No Tears of Rage.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 00:37:26 CET 2015 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Mary

Hello Mary.


Entered at Sun Mar 1 00:19:36 CET 2015 from (24.3.83.176)

Posted by:

Mary (bear)

Subject: None

It has been such a long time since I have been here. Hello to all of you.


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