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The Band: Live at the Academy of Music 1971

Levon Helm: Ramble at the Ryman

The Band: Three of a Kind

Robbie Robertson: How to Become Clairvoyant

Garth Hudson Presents a Canadian Celebration of The Band

Levon Helm: Electric Dirt

Garth and Maud Hudson: Live at the Wolf

Pulse

Dirt Farmer

Elliot Landy's Woodstock Vision

The Band Guestbook

Welcome to The Band guestbook. If you have problems reading this page, see the answers to frequently asked questions about the guestbook.

You can add your own comments by signing the guestbook. Please behave and follow the rules of conduct.

If you are looking for previous entries or posters, try searching the guestbook archives.


Entered at Sat Apr 21 05:56:32 CEST 2018 from (75.157.168.91)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Bob F

Bob. You're being silly. Here on the GB it's always been "different strokes, for different folks" It took me a long time to get that through my head. You can't expect everyone to agree with what you post even though you think you're right. In the early days here I was absolutely gutted by some responses, or no responses, to something that I had posted and thought was important. Actually Pat B came to my rescue one time and explained via e-mail, what some vicious prick had said to me. Thank you Pat. The first time I met Jeff on here he told me to go 'fuck myself' So I e-mailed him and said the same. We've been sort of friends ever since. I say sort of because we live in two different worlds. But If I was ever in NY I'd want Jeff to watch my back. Bill M and Norm and you, and a whole lot of others here are the salt of the earth. We're just different. Our backgrounds, our education, our way of life. Try not to dislike certain people by what they say and may mean. Walk in their shoes first. Besides the people who have passed, you know what I miss most? The Ladies who used to post here. Their insight is missing. And I don't care what anyone says, it's 'there goes THE Robert E Lee'


Entered at Sat Apr 21 05:40:35 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: The Best Music

Long As I Can See The Light......John Fogerty

Sea Cruise........Frankie Ford

Ophelia......The Band...Boards on the window, mail by the door Why would anybody leave so quickly for

I Shall Be Released.......The Band

Come Together....................The Beatles



Entered at Sat Apr 21 04:29:11 CEST 2018 from (69.203.125.109)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

Subject: Re: Yakety Yak

Thanks Todd, I loved that cover of Yakety Yak by Amy Helm. Oddly enough, I've had that song randomly echoing in my head this week, and I doubt I've heard it in 30+ years. Perfect that she would suddenly cover it. A very funny song; you can't help but smile at some of those lines. "Your father's hip, he knows what cooks!" is still my favorite.


Entered at Sat Apr 21 04:14:17 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Clarification

After observing many opinions I would just like to state my case. Jan if you feel this should be deleted right away I surely understand, because this unsavoury topic has gone on long enough.

I don't feel at all good about comments that have been made about Jeff in the last couple of days. Also Bob F who as far as I can see misunderstands a lot as Pat B mentioned. I'd like to see Bob and Jeff post here as long as they like. There just has always been some problem of understanding some posts of others. It is unfortunate.

If I really felt any discrimination towards other people that hurt "bystanders" I would apologize. I meant no such thing. There is a misinterpretation of "anti-Semitism". I would not say that without much research which I have done for years. It has nothing to do with religion. Read up on the centuries of this.

While you are at it read up on "Porajimos" I expect many people don't know what the word means. The genocide of Gypsies in Europe in the holocaust was supposedly between 220,000 and 500,000 but some historians say as high as 1.5 million. You know as Cher's song goes, the world over "Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves"

The aboriginal people of countries like ours that were invaded and inhabited and treated the indigenous people terribly as they still do in our country. My grandmother was Salish Indian and Mexican I know lots about the way our people have been treated. Bands displaced and moved off their land so that the government could flood their land and build hydro dams, treats for compensation that were never honored. My sister in law, my oldest brothers wife was taken to one of those residential schools run by religion, (a consentration camp). They were submitted to abuse, sexual and emotional and humiliated. Little children if they wet the bed, made to stand in the hall for an hour with a wet sheet piled on their head. Irene died a couple of years ago. She spent the last few years of her life going to court over and over again telling and reliving her story so that the government could decide to give her $200,000 dollars and that was supposed to make up for a life time of shame and misery.

We all have our cross to bear. So in my mind form the movie "Life of Brian" (which I understand was banned in Ireland) too much guilt I guess. I look at Brian and his associates hanging on crosses singing, "Always look on the bright side of life." Some of you people feel persecuted?? bullshit.


Entered at Sat Apr 21 03:34:17 CEST 2018 from (107.77.92.130)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: WTF?

Bob F - I’ve been here a long time and I can’t figure out what you’re talking about. Who was the same guy for the same reasons? I don’t know how Bill M has been horrible to you; I might have missed that along the way but Bill doesn’t strike me as being horrible to anybody here. Jeff A, on the other hand, had that ability and used it from the get go.


Entered at Sat Apr 21 02:22:16 CEST 2018 from (70.121.56.235)

Posted by:

glenn t

Subject: most recent listens

nothing like music to soothe the soul...been listening to 2 albums each by a variety of folks.

Los Lobos: The Ride, and Ride This

Southside Johnny & The Asbury Jukes: The Jukes, and Love is a Sacrifice

Bob Dylan: John W Harding, and Pat Garrett soundtrack

David Bowie: Aladdin Sane, and PinUps.

Have a superb weekend everybody!


Entered at Sat Apr 21 01:01:23 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

JH, I can't agree. A person's religion is sacred and when one religion is singled out for persecution it's really wrong. No other religion comes into any other discussion, argument on the GB. This is not the first time. Remember Ben from Jersey who said High On The Hog was better then Northern Lights? Great kid. Loved Elvis. He was run off by the same guy for the same reason. I'm still pushing for an apology.

I understand you're probably going to have to ban me. I understand. You're a good guy. Thanks for keeping the GB going all these years. I've enjoyed it. It's a good time to be banned. I'm about to start my kettle corn season and The NBA Playoffs are underway.

If I'm gone in the morning, Al, Dunc, Glenn, I'll email. Anyone else who wants to stay in touch, I'm easy to find. Bill M, You've been horrible to me since my first post, but no hard feelings on my end. Be well everyone.

JH, please put my photo next to Serges who was probably run off by the same angry history mob.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 22:37:38 CEST 2018 from (84.209.152.118)

Posted by:

jh

We go in and, in this huge place, there's about three people in the audience. A one-armed go-go dancer and a couple of drunk waiters. A couple here, a couple there.

Somebody fires a tear gas... And a fight starts.

There isn't enough people in the place to get angry.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 22:11:22 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Thanks, Haso. I'd love to do the Memphis-St Louis section (in either direction). It's so relaxing on that boat. Nice side trips too.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 21:51:25 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

It might not do you any good, Pat. But still give it a try …

Michael McDermott … I got "Willow Springs" and loved it. Since when I looked for more when I was in the USA. Rough Trade in Brooklyn didn't even have his name on their system, nor did Newbury Comics in Boston & Cambridge. He's very much like Michael Marra … you hear him, you want to hear more, but it's hard to get. These record stores just don't seem to fulfill their function.

Record Store Day tomorrow. I'll miss corresponding with David P on this one.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 20:47:39 CEST 2018 from (108.88.109.12)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bob F, I had the misfortune of volunteering to moderate the alt-GB when Jan closed this place down for a while. I put up with Jeff's anger about the direction of the threads, my supposed unfairness, and a myriad of other issues. Jeff made all kinds of demands, not the least of which that the site should be closed down--a stance he had also taken with Jan.

I don't come here much, but when Letterman made his reference I thought people here might be interested. Instead I see Jeff asking that Jan re-post what our esteemed webmaster had decided to delete and Jeff calling for a shunning of Norm. Jeff even wished he had saved the posts--I assume so that he could re-post them. I called it silly and funny. It is.

You managed to somehow equate the thread about whether Robert E. Lee was ever in Tennessee with anti-semitism and the Confederate monument battles. Ridiculous.

Sorry I missed your McDermott thread. I talk to him regularly and still play with him occasionally. He does a mean Van Morrison.

Is this where I remind everyone that my ex-wife is Jewish as is my daughter?


Entered at Fri Apr 20 18:00:28 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Much Ado

Ah, but I was telling the truth. Link to my review of "Much Ado About Nothing" at the Rose Theatre last night.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 16:10:10 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Jed: You've been here a long time - perhaps long enough to have witnessed one of our number calling for an actual genocide (of hundreds of millions of people). I don't recall anyone stepping in to say something. I'm certain that many thought of doing so but decided not to risk fanning flames that might in some way harm the feelings or interests of members of the target group. Judgments on these things, like life, can be very complicated. I like Norm, but I'm sure I wouldn't have liked the joke that he posted had I seen it. I also wish he'd not shared it, even if it was just intended to get back at one particular poster.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 15:24:13 CEST 2018 from (100.33.245.182)

Posted by:

Jed

Well said,Todd & yes, as one who reads this GB & was offended by Norm's "joke" & other comments, an apology is in order.Jeff is not the only Jew here who read it & felt it. And,Peter,Much Ado About Nothing,huh?-exactly my earlier point about minimizers.Often the minimizers are more lethal than those who shoot the arrows.They let the bleeding continue and simply move on.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 15:11:43 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

And who here doesn't think of this huge Dan Hicks hit from time to time?


Entered at Fri Apr 20 14:55:34 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Peter, last night I was listening to Cyndi Lauper sing True Colors. Thought of The Guestbook.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 09:03:01 CEST 2018 from (185.100.188.15)

Posted by:

Peter V

Very sensible words, Todd.

Last night I saw the Rose Theatre production of “Much Ado About Nothing.” I wonder why these coincidences keep happening.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 08:27:03 CEST 2018 from (32.216.232.53)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: A Fun One - 'Yakety Yak'

Thanks Lisa, I don't often get accused of that!

Link above is from the same Amy Helm gig at the Rockwood. Doing the Lieber & Stoller penned classic 'Yakety Yak'.
Pretty fun and the fellow named Jackson, on harmonica, plays a pretty lively solo. Fun stuff. Something tells me that Levon would be very proud of the way Amy is carrying on the musical torch.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 07:53:28 CEST 2018 from (79.75.168.50)

Posted by:

Solomon

Subject: Elvis Presley: The Searcher

Did anyone notice it was narrated by Bruce Springsteen, Tom Petty, Emmylou Harris, Robbie Robertson, and other's. It's HBO's two-part documentary "Elvis Presley: The Searcher," premiered on HBO on April 14. Part one is a must-see.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 07:48:03 CEST 2018 from (96.49.94.173)

Posted by:

Lisa

Todd, you are wise beyond your years :-)

Amen.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 07:38:30 CEST 2018 from (32.216.232.53)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: Amy Helm - 'Gloryland' & 'Yes We Can'

After reviewing the verbal diarrhea from my previous post, I now realize that I could have simply posted the link to these songs from Amy's recent gig at Rockwood Music Hall in NYC, to inspire some healing. What did Levon used to say? If you got some problems, sprinkle a little music on them, (or something along those lines).

From 'Yes We Can'
"Make this land a better land
In the world in which we live
And help each man be a better man
With the kindness that you give"



Entered at Fri Apr 20 06:37:57 CEST 2018 from (32.216.232.53)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Balance

I think that Bob F. & Jed, et al. have a point about the danger of sweeping certain comments "under the rug", so to speak. There's a very practical reason to do so...it detracts from the core mission of this place. If we spent all of our time in back and forth arguments about hurt feelings and public shaming, it would soon become a site about something other than The Band, and would either die off on it's own, or jan would probably have to shut it down eventually, as I sure that's not what he had in mind when he started this labor of love. But, it's important to avoid being dismissive, in trying to find that balance.

So I think it's fine to point out injustices as they occur, as long as it doesn't turn into a tally and score-card of who reacted "appropriately", and who chose to stay quiet. In most of these cases people just don't want to add fuel to the fire, and want to get back to the conversation. That's not a bad thing, and it doesn't mean they don't care about important issues. People should also be free to converse with whomever they want, and not feel shame in doing so...even if that person has flaws. Hell, I've got plenty of flaws, so I try to avoid casting stones. Something I learned as a young kid, occasionally forget in my middle-aged stupor. You know, when I first started posting here I was one of the younger guys, but somehow I'm catching up!

Many people, including myself, agreed that Norm's joke (that was deleted) wasn't cool, but I think drew the line at shunning him or labeling him as an anti-semite, which is a pretty serious charge given the history of the past 100 years. I think that most people view it as a feud between Jeff and Norm, and Norm knew how to get under Jeff's skin.

Norm's a good guy, Jeff's a good guy. I think there's room for everyone. But I'm a "big-tent" kind of guy.

I'm not going to tell grown men (both OLDER than myself, I take great joy in pointing out) how or when to apologize to each other. That's something that needs to be self generated, and I think it's Norm's choice. And I think Jeff has been poking the old dog (no offense intended Norm)for a while now trying to get a response.

I can see why Norm might not want to apologize to Jeff, as they are in some kind of perpetual kerfuffle, but I think he may want to consider that there are many other people who visit here who were upset by the "joke". Including many people who never post but still read. Norm is a good guy who cares about people, and if for no other reason, I don't think he'd want other people to get the wrong impression of him.

So where do we go from here, as the song goes. Heck, I don't know. But I hope things get better. Bob F. is just as important as anyone else here, and if he's not feeling the love, then it's an issue, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think we need to dwell on it constantly, as it will bury this place, but let's try to work it out and move on.

And I've been enjoying the Robert E. Lee discussion. I've learned stuff about the song, the Band, and a little bit of history in the process. Maybe even a little geography and a thing or two about barges. Where else are you going to get all of that under one roof?!


Entered at Fri Apr 20 05:08:05 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Randy Scruggs

Sad to hear yesterday that Randy Scruggs died at only 64. After a short illness is said but does not elaborate.

Randy won many Grammies for song writing, twice country music entertainer of the year. To me the greatest remembrance was his producing "Circle 2" with the Dirt Band. He played an instrumental "Amazing Grace" on mother Mable Carter's guitar a great sound. Another great one gone.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 02:50:49 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

haso: I remember hearing about no-zoning Houston in urban planning too, but thought - until now - that it just applied to heights and lot coverage and whether an abattoir could plunk itself down among a bunch of houses. That seemed bad enough, but what you're talking about is just nuts.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 02:34:49 CEST 2018 from (71.234.142.242)

Posted by:

haso

Location: seacoast NH

Subject: the River

Ah, yes Peter, next time you must go northerly. Perhaps all the way to Hannibal, MO (the cave of Tom Sawyer and Huck, supposedly). They do build around the bluffs, in between them and (no doubt glenn t. and Jeff A. probably remember), in the case of an oft-bedraggled river town of Grafton, IL, mostly in FRONT of the damn bluffs. Grafton's right at the juncture of the Illinois River and the Miss. about 20 miles upstream from the Missouri. I well remember filling sandbags, likely a fruitless endeavor in the spring of '74. Flooding is pretty much a way of life in those parts; you see quite a few homes, even restaurants and such, up on stilts. My most recent visits to Grafton, there's some signs that people are finally building more on the top of the bluffs and a little less in the floodplain.

A lesson, of course completely ignored in greater Houston, TX (last I knew, still no zoning codes; a rather noteworthy feature of urban planning courses in architecture school). They actually built whole subdivisions IN a reservoir, the "dry" part. This summer put that " " in doubt.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 02:13:28 CEST 2018 from (71.234.142.242)

Posted by:

haso

Location: Seacoast NH

Subject: RS

Anybody else catch the latest on Nathaniel Rateliff from the current Rolling Stone (RS#1311/1312)? I know somebody linked us a while back to his mash-up w/ his band, the Night Sweats of his S.O.B. w/ The Shape I'm In. Interesting stuff here: grew up in rural Missouri, evangelical family, until finding his dad's record collection after he died in an accident (N. was 13); collection evidently put him onto Muddy, Van Morrison and the Allbros among others.

More to the point, their big break, outside of the Denver area, was on Jimmy Fallon, who I recall telling RR that he grew up in the greater Woodstock area, very clued in to the Band. More to the point, the writer calls Nathaniel "an enraged Van Morrison armed w/ a wall of horns" (perhaps Caravan at TLW) and later visits his outfit at their home studio in Denver covering Ophelia. That plus, even closer to our point, the writer quotes N. on the beginning of the Night Sweats 5 years ago:"'I wanted to write like the Band and Sam and Dave had a band together...'". Sounds to me like he especially listens to Richard, I can imagine our "dearly beloved" Mr. Manuel thinking right along those lines.


Entered at Fri Apr 20 00:04:18 CEST 2018 from (185.100.188.15)

Posted by:

Peter V

Hands up if you saw it. I didn’t. All I know is that Jeff and Norm had an argument. It was abusive enough for the webmaster to delete both sides. This was always the policy.

My enduring attitude is that I’ve spoken productively to both Norm and Jeff for years. I decided I would carry on speaking to both. But Jeff hasn’t posted. If he had, I would have conversed. If he does, I will. I like Jeff. I like Norm. \ n But I’m amazed that you feel a discussion of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down is inappropriate in a Band GB.

I said I didn’t want to know it. But if you think it’s that appalling, tell me privately.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 21:21:20 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Sensitivity

Wow! Sorry. One thing we don't need is more sensitivity on The Guestbook. Nobody get sensitive. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you're having this great conversation about Robert E Lee right after you ignored Norm's hate remarks. Again. not his first time. You guys are the best people. Always going on about how horrible the governments are. I'm sure you wouldn't allow that kind of joke in your homes. But nobody should expect you to say, "Norm not funny. You should apologize". That would be so over the top. Completely unnecessary.

Pat B, you're the best with the one liners to make someone else feel small. It's really a gift. By the way, I finally got some of the Guestbook "family" to listen to Michael McDermott. A lot of great feedback especially from Al. I was telling them how you played with Mike back in the day. I was hoping you were going to pop in. I guess you missed that discussion or it wasn't as interesting as going after Jeff.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 21:10:05 CEST 2018 from (71.43.124.98)

Posted by:

Dan

Subject: BEfore the Flood (Completed)

Whole bunch of Before the Flood (Completed) soundboards released on You Tube recently. Listening to Boston Garden now and there is none of the shouting (Dylan) or hoarseness (Band) that was present in the official Release. Best version of I Don't Believe You. Any insight into when and why Dylan started to run over his songs on this tour? Almost criminal that Boston Garden afternoon was not the release! My parents were at the Nassau Coliseum show but that is an audience recording...


Entered at Thu Apr 19 20:38:44 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

Peter V: I was going to ask you for more details of Lee's freeing 'his' slaves, but decided I should look it up myself. I found this link, which seems to be saying that he freed the slaves of somebody else, in accordance with the will of that person, whose executor he was. So perhaps the glowing headline should be amended to read "Lee acts in accordance with estate law". Still, I saw no mention of him 'owning' slaves, which reflects well on him.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 19:13:34 CEST 2018 from (108.88.109.12)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bob F, discussing whether Lee was in Tennessee after the war is frowned upon? Really?


Entered at Thu Apr 19 18:26:31 CEST 2018 from (100.33.245.182)

Posted by:

Jed

It's very easy to minimize the reaction of blacks & jews feelings about racial/religious slurs, jokes and symbols.After all, those who minimize never walked in their shoes-never got cursed, attacked,degraded or demeaned or never felt how crushing the words and experiences can be.So,walk away, minimize and keep the conversation going as if it never happened.But it did happen, in a very real way for those of us who are jewish or black.Words are powerful & have impact.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 17:37:55 CEST 2018 from (185.100.188.15)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: “Due respect to General Lee”

I quote Levon Helm. I’m not at home so can’t access the ability to post links. But see my blog. Rants. Civil Wars and Statues, as I’m sure Bob knows. Check out Johnny Cash singing “God Bless Robert E. Lee.” It’s linked there. You can find it on YouTube. History is about facts and history is about interpretation. The interpretation shifts. The facts don’t. The greatest song written about the Civil War brought the “other” viewpoint into focus, which is why Levon wanted respect for Robert E. Lee (not a boat).

Read my article, but Sherman in modern terms was certainly a war criminal. He has a statue in NYC. Boston Library celebrates the March Through Georgia, which was an atrocity. History is written by the winners. Lee freed his slaves. Lincoln wanted to pack ex-slaves off back to Africa. Washington & Jefferson were slaveholders. These are facts. Lee does not come off too badly in the facts department.

I’m a history fan. I loathe the invention of stuff to fit an agenda.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 15:55:49 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Avast!

Damn your stubborn Bill. All the way around thru' the Florida Quays. Never happen. The stability of a River Boat. They are so shallow when they fist started to make a starboard turn coming into the Quays or out the other side one of those boats would roll right upside down on that swell out there.

Peter don't know if you ever use "Google Earth". Sometimes I get to travelling on there and look up and a couple of hours gone by. If you have used it you must know how the icons all across the land you are looking at are pictures people have posted there. You just click on an icon and look at beautiful pictures I love it.

Any way if you look at our Mackenzie River delta, that flow north thru' our territories there are many pictures of the tugs and barges up there. They operate the same. That river is pretty big and wide in some spots, but of course not nearly as big as the Mighty M. Their barges are much bigger and they don't have as large of tows and they don't have nearly the traffic. Those southern barges are much smaller as they can't be as deep and a 50 barge tow must have quite a lot of flexibility to negotiate the river bends.

Back to google earth. There is so many interesting pictures I have seen for example, a small island in the south Pacific way out by itself as many are. A picture shows the grave site of Napoleon Bonaparte. I forget the name of the island but I can find it again easily. Quite some time back after watching the movie "Master and Commander" I got on google earth to look at the Golapagas Islands. I thought I was going to see pristeen uninhabited land. Shit! there is resorts, marinas and a population of about 10,000 people. They have ruined the place.

Pat B. I expect you would know what relatives of Robert E Lee may be about, if any.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 14:46:42 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Dixie

Thank God, we're getting back to the real important discussions now. That great Confederate General Robert E Lee. Hopefully next we can get back to why those statues shouldn't have come down. The hate comments that were said right here on The Guest Book in 2018? No need for apologies. That's just funny. We heard way worse then that back in the 50's on our way to school. Those New York boys are just to sensitive.

Link to Bob Dylan doing Dixie to keep in the spirit of things.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 14:17:20 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: addendum

I should have added that Pat B's subsequent clarification that Lee's did indeed take a train through Georgia (from NC to FLA with stops along the way) shot my theory all to hell.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 14:13:18 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Rockin C: On the basis of what Pat B had said about Lee's travels - no mention of Georgia - I speculated that in those flightless days Lee must've gone by sea from a port in NC to a port in FLA - so by 'ship'. I further speculated that the ship was subsequently renamed 'the Robert E Lee' in honour of its famous passenger - and that that vessel later made its way around FLA and up the mighty Mississip, at which point it would have become a 'boat', floating its merry way into a Neil song - though not a Robbie song, as has been determined by the court of GB opinion.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 10:25:23 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Bonk, there's a Hudson, Tennesee too. But it's always the same, no spotlight on Richard! Same as The Last Waltz. Some will reckon Robbie and Scorsese must have conspired with Tennessee's mappers.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 09:08:47 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Rolling On The River

I wasn’t surprised so much that tows push, as that they are called “tows” which implies the other way. They make a business of bends (we often had to wait while they negotiated them ahead), and I’d guess they are easier to control going upriver against the current than down river.

The thing about the Mississippi is that it is not lined with habitation, not that I’ve been past Memphis. For the most part, it’s low vegetation, because the river expands and contracts. There are a lot of trees half submerged and they’re small and spindly … kindling, not wood to store. You only see buildings where there’s a bluff or hill so they can get the houses safely above the river, and when that happens there’s a small town. For the most part, you don’t see single farms along the river bank, or farm buildings … they’d all be back behind the first line of flood plain vegetation. We did plantation tours, and they start well inland from the banks. Its eerie in a way, but I have spent hours sitting on the room balcony staring at it going by and it’s basically green shrubbery both sides. It may be different north of Memphis, I don’t know.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 05:42:23 CEST 2018 from (58.167.96.238)

Posted by:

Doug

Subject: REL

Loving the REL discussion. I'm one of no doubt many who enjoy this site, but rarely contribute - I don't operate musically at the same level as most of you. But its normally a pleasure to visit, so thanks all


Entered at Thu Apr 19 02:27:59 CEST 2018 from (75.157.168.91)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Robert E Lee

Just thought I'd throw it out there. There's a Robertson, Tennessee. A Hawkins, Tennessee. And a Helms Auto in Tennessee. I'm sure you folks can play with it.


Entered at Thu Apr 19 00:12:35 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Barges don't have brakes

Generally.....General lee.......:-) The water in big rivers like that is going one way Peter. Think of being on the head end of 50 barges towing and trying to stop...hmmmmm? There is a reason they push.

However there are sea going American tugs and barges that the stern of the barge is notched to fit the tug bow for pushing. Some of them always do, to a fault. Just a few months ago up here in Hecate Strait a tug was pushing his fuel barge. In areas like that it is really dumb and dangerous. Hecate Strait is very shallow and wide open to the South East. When a south east makes up quickly the shallow water brings the swell up quickly. These guys keep pushing because they are to lazy to let go and hook up and run out tow line. The swell makes up quick then they can't let go and get the towline hooked up.

This ship broke her bow up and broke loose from the barge. The barge was heading into the bottom end of Aristazbal Island which is a rock pile. For example they were just below "Terror Point". Luckily one of our coast guard ships and another tug were close enough to assist and get the barge into a bay and safely anchored. If that barge had fetched up there could have been disaster.

As far as your query what was the big deal, the boat at that time would not have been a barge boat. It would have been a passenger boat and been running light. The big deal at the time we are discussing, it was new. You have no doubt seen river boats. I doubt you were around in 1866 to see a new one just recently launched. It sure would have been a big deal to me!


Entered at Wed Apr 18 23:44:09 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The Robert E. Lee made New Orleans to St Louis in under 4 days when racing, not having to wait for tows to get round the bends as you do today. Oddly, Mississippi ‘tows’ push, not pull, and can have up to 50 barges in a single tow. So on that kind of run, the Robert E Lee would be passing Tennessee in one direction or the other when NOT racing about once a week or less. So unless participating in a race, what was the big deal? Though at other times it didn’t go upriver past Natchez in Mississippi. This is all according to Wiki. The modern cruise takes 7 days to Memphis, nearer 14 to St Louis but it stops a lot for side tours..

It was the general.

River craft are boats regardless of size, though I recall that sea going ships can get up as far as Baton Rouge. But ships can go out of the river onto the sea. And submarines are boats. I listened to all those talks on the Mississippi cruise.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 22:20:23 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Terminology

River "Boat" Bill. I made the mistake the other day and some one corrected me, I forget who. Ships are at sea. AS I am in no proximity to the mighty Mississippi my habit is different.

You never hear any one called a "river ship gambler" it of course is "river boat gambler."


Entered at Wed Apr 18 22:12:26 CEST 2018 from (108.88.109.12)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bill M, yes, Georgia also. At a reception in Augusta which included a number of Lee's generals, a 13 year old Woodrow Wilson wormed his way through the crowd and stood next to Lee.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 20:27:12 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Pat B: And Georgia? I don't believe the concept of "the flyover state" had yet been invented. Or maybe the boat (or is it ship?) he took between SC and FLA was later named after him?


Entered at Wed Apr 18 20:24:13 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Good thing Virgil ain't around Bill

Now Todd has started making some sense! The way it goes is Yirgil's wife had been in that house on that river for years. She watched so many river boats she could tell you which one was comin' half a mile away.

Fred's theory don't wash the Robert E Lee was launched in '66. Peter's dog don't hunt. I believe Peter has been down that river....well all he sees now is buildings, barges and a lot of mud. Back in Virgil's day they was lotsa wood cuttin' along that river. They sure in hell didn't have propane or oil, or electric stoves. As John Prine said "They tortured the timber and stripped all the land." So Peter never got to see it.

Now Virgil's wife had heard thru' the grapevine about them launching that Robert E Lee, (the fastest boat on two side wheels.) She kept her eyes peeled for it. When she saw it that shiney new boat was comin' down stream with the current pushin' her. Mis Kane could tell she was makin' good speed by the bone in 'er teeth. She yelled "Virgil, quick come see. There goes THE Robert E Lee." So that he could get a look before she went behind that bunch a TREES on the river bank and down around the bend outa site. AND that is the way it happened.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 20:09:17 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Todd: At the risk of maligning the voiceless, may I suggest that Mrs Kane (nee Clowers) was seeing things - a bit too deep into the moonshine barrel, perhaps.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 19:51:04 CEST 2018 from (32.216.230.249)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Robert E. Lee Meet-up

OK, cool. Thanks for the background info Peter & Pat


Entered at Wed Apr 18 19:29:14 CEST 2018 from (108.88.109.12)

Posted by:

Pat B

Lee spent most of his post-war life in Lexington Virginia serving as the president of Washington College. He traveled to White Sulphur Springs on vacation a few times and he went to DC to testify before Congress once. He also spent some time in Richmond VA and Baltimore. He only took one long trip when he railroaded through VA, NC, SC, and Florida, but at no time was he in Tennessee after the war. He drew huge crowds everywhere where I'm sure more than once the cry rose, "Quick, come see. There goes Robert E. Lee."


Entered at Wed Apr 18 18:55:52 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Apparently Lee travelled around meeting veterans (though not in Tennessee).


Entered at Wed Apr 18 17:58:18 CEST 2018 from (32.216.230.249)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Robert E. Lee

Not a lot of time, but trying to stay current on the topic, and I have a question. Just considering all of the options.

Would Robert E. Lee just been randomly strolling by Virgil's farm...up in the woods, or wherever he was chopping wood. How likely is that? Ad why would Virgil have to come quick to see? Was Lee sprinting? Or on a racehorse?


Entered at Wed Apr 18 15:35:48 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: All aboard for Appomattox

Fred / Haso et al: Like Doug, I really appreciated the Dixie / Lee discussion of last week, and I appreciated even more your more recent points, moving Virgil's property uphill and all that. I think the boat theory is well and truly sunk. One thing though, is there any record of Lee having been on the Danville train? If so, maybe Virgil was crewing at the time; maybe he was the conductor and got to punch Lee's ticket?


Entered at Wed Apr 18 14:39:58 CEST 2018 from (203.160.29.183)

Posted by:

Fred

You'd be pretty hard-pressed to find anyone who is not a Roman cheering on AS Roma. Even some Romans aren't fans. (those would be the Lazio fans). Only 3 teams can boast of long-standing fan bases all over Italy: Inter, Milan and Juventus.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 12:19:28 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Where’s Al?

Yes, Liverpool v Roma. A story I’ve told before. I was in a restaurant in Sardinia (with two Italians, one of them from Sardinia). It was empty. The waiter ran to our table dropped menus and ran back to the kitchen. The same with bread. He apologized that they were watching the game in the kitchen. Then he invited is to join the staff in the kitchen, if we didn’t mind having the communal pasta with them. We watched the game. I felt guilty about cheering on Liverpool, but I realized they were all cheering on Liverpool too. I asked why. Ah, they explained, this is Sardinia not the mainland. We cheer on ANYBODY if they’re playing against Roma. And we had a great meal with wine and they wouldn’t let us pay.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 12:13:40 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Yes, I’ve read “Blue Highways”. I’ve got a shelf full of similar, some by British writers who like to do the song references tour. “Blue Highways” has the advantage of being by an American and is one of the best.

Haso backs up my belief that Robbie was deliberate in choosing a state where there was a slave holding v non-slave holding geographical separation. Big plantations were in the lowlands along the river. Virgil was to me on a one family farm up in the hills, therefore fiercely loyal to the south. But not complicit in slave holding. Important in 1969 as it is now. I agree too that “they” are the Southern leadership as well as the North. You’d have to tell me, but in my mind there’s a lot more wood to chop up in the hills than in the Mississippi flood plain too. Also all the facts about Robert E. Lee and freeing slaves and ensuring there will be no direct reprisals on Confederate soldiers make him a good guy. I don’t see Mr & Mrs Kane’s excitement at seeing a boat pass (which it would have done with regularity) worth including in the song. That idea makes them gawping rubes, "Oh, look, Virgil! A big boat coming along the river …" Whoops, nearly slipped into Powderfinger.

And yes, thanks Haso – I got it from both sides! A rare case where the opponents were united.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 12:02:11 CEST 2018 from (203.160.29.183)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: Latest 5

A John Lee Hooker-fest:

Free Beer And Chicken

It Serves You Right to Suffer

The Best of Friends

The Big Soul of John Lee Hooker

Hooker'n'Heat


Entered at Wed Apr 18 11:53:49 CEST 2018 from (203.160.29.183)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: Shades of May 30th, 1984 (for Al Edge)

Oooh...Liverpool FC vs AS Roma...it's 1984 all over again (albeit spread over home and away fixtures this time, but still...). Watched that game on the telly, in Italy, we were all cheering for Liverpool to win.

Mo Salah...is he for real or is he a player from a video game come to life? Woof!

The key for LFC to win is to get Bruce Grobbelar and his wobbly legs to come out of retirement and mind the net. That'll confuse those giallorossi no end. : )


Entered at Wed Apr 18 11:44:06 CEST 2018 from (203.160.29.183)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: A... The....huh..wha'?!? ; )

I have 3 rather crackpot-ish theories on the subject of the boat vs General debate:

#1 Virgil's wife is an Italian immigrant, and many times Italians will use the definite article "The" when referring to people (especially important people) hence when she sees Robert E. Lee she says "The" but she is referring to the man, not the boat (or ship or floating thingy...whatever you want to call it)

#2Virgil's wife is yanking his chain....hey Virg, look here comes... so he doesn't know if she means Lee the man or Lee the boat.

#3All of you seem to be of the opinion that Virgil is some erudite man, a philosopher-farmer.

It's the 19th century, a rural area of a southern state....Virgil & his wife are more than likely dumber than the dirt they farm, with hardly any readin' & 'ritin' skills to speak of due to a lack of compulsory education.

I don't believe they had a newspaper delivered to there door on a daily basis, so I don't think they even knew what Lee looked like (either by photograph or artist's rendition).

Perhaps the wife had some vague idea of Lee sporting a beard and she saw a white bearded gentleman (perhaps wearing a confederate uniform perhaps not), passing through making the assumption that is was Robert E. Lee.

I doubt it was The Robert E. Lee riverboat because that would place the song sometime in the 1870s. And something tells me their farm is not by a major waterway.

Too much time on my hands, you say?

Naturally. Red Wings didn't make the playoffs (again) this year. What do you think I'm going to do...cheer for the Leafs?!? ; )


Entered at Wed Apr 18 05:19:23 CEST 2018 from (71.234.142.242)

Posted by:

haso

Location: Seacoast NH

Subject: Dixie

Yes Doug, let's return to that erudite Dixie discussion. And just to clarify, that featured Jeff and Norm "giving it" to Peter. Since Bill M re-quoted part in the Steinbeck conversation, I'd call all to look at those 4 lines. I just don't imagine Virgil to be a terribly complicated guy. Those lines, in CONTEXT, just seem like they'd have to come out of seeing the general, or thinking so. They follow his wife calling it out. Especially that coda: "...they should never have taken the very best". That's got to be the brother, above him. No matter how much a southerner of the day looked up, idolized, whatever, Robert E., Virgil's clearly pissed that the best got pissed away in that conflict. It's not just carpetbaggers and bluecoats and Lincoln that's got his goat; the failed Johnny Reb leadership, too.

By Jesus, Sebastian get your pops to give you a whisper or 2 on this deal, willya.

And for the boat cheering section... other than the long-winded (here) analysis of "the", sung, written, etc: remind me, how do I know Virgil's anywhere near a major navigable river? I can say for sure, there ain't no paddlewheelers anywhere close to my grandma's Clinch Mountains. Every bit as much Tennessee as Memphis.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 05:04:01 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: William Least Heat Moon

Haso, real interesting you mention this man. I heard about him from a friend long ways back and had forgotten to get to his books. Thanks for reminding me.

His name is actually William Trogdon, his by name is from his father who said after father and older brother he had the least heat so he used that name for his writing. His native blood is "Osage" they were the strongest native band and it is said the tallest men in North America many of them 6'5" to 7'. I remember hearing of them so I just looked them up. Their name "Osage" is another of those French derivatives like the Souix, which are actually Lacota.

Now I will have to find those books to read. I have become pretty tired of computers recently. Particularly while I was down in Mexico. I got to laying in the sun getting my tan and reading. One really good condensed story I just read down there. (I got hold of one of those nice hard bound readers digest. I have many in my library.) The story I really enjoyed was John Grisham's "The Testament". I just really got into it. Read it in a day and a half.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 04:54:15 CEST 2018 from (69.203.125.109)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

Subject: Dixie

Doug, agree completely re Dixie. I'm just not feeling the whole boat theory.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 04:46:26 CEST 2018 from (32.216.228.65)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: Guilty as Charged.....

Of posting too many Larkin Poe links!
But this one is too good to let sliiide by (See what I did there).

At link is a cover of CSN&Y ‘Helplessly Hoping’. Of course, there’s only two voices available here, and I'm not enough of an expert on CSN&Y to judge against the original, but I think this is pretty glorious. Enjoy!

PS, I just had a glass of Cabernet Sauvignon, but only one glass……I promise. So, I think that I’m still in compliance with Bob’s Rule #5 addendum, which is actually very sage advice. ;-)


Entered at Wed Apr 18 04:30:43 CEST 2018 from (71.234.142.242)

Posted by:

haso

Location: Seacoast NH

Subject: Travels

Peter V: just wondering if you've encountered William Least Heat Moon. He's best known for a book, probably best considered a collection of essays, called Blue Highways. Impressed me as being a latter-day Travels w/. I believe he teaches writing at U. of Missouri, Columbia. His background is American Indian, though I don't know what tribe(s). Norm would probably like a later tome called Riverhorse where he sails (drives?) a boat all the acrosst the U.S. starting in the East River of NYC. Unfortunately, I have yet to finish that one. I'm not much of a boat guy and also not much of a pub guy, and left that book in a river town on the Ohio River, one too many musings from pub conversations. That said, a good buddy, who is a boat guy, enjoyed it immensely. And, after some recent kibbutizing w/ a clerk at our local independent bookstore about Moon, I may try it again. He & I connect a lot on Testimony, Kuralnick's Sam Phillips bio and the like, so his advice registers w/ me. Not that I'm a hard case anyway; easily lead astray my spouse would suggest.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 02:40:26 CEST 2018 from (58.167.96.238)

Posted by:

Doug

Location: sydney

What on earth has happened here? The last time I browsed there was a very erudite discussion on the lyrics of Dixie. And on that topic the lyrics paint Virgil as a man who has lost all he has, and still suffers daily indignities (chopping wood), but who still has pride in his cause. In that context it makes more sense to me that Virgil and his wife would be excited to see the real life Robert E Lee, but maybe not his wooden namesake.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 01:34:20 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill t

Pat s: Thanks for the education re Buckhannon and Buchanan. I wasn't even aware of the suite having anything to do with W Va. I just remember liking the song on the radio that the DJs identified as something to do with a girl from Buchanan, which I assumed was part of greater Chicago.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 00:21:59 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter c

Thank you, Bob. I would have replied to any Jeff post too. My aim was normal dialogue with both or either. I wasn’t taking trying to take sides, just to sweep whatever went on under the carpet and get back to conversation.


Entered at Wed Apr 18 00:03:37 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

I apologize Peter. I shouldn't have said that. Now I'll tell you what I find offensive. As soon as this happened, you and Bill M (of course) and a few others rallied around Norm as a show of support. As if he was the innocent party. You couldn't wait to start a conversation with him. I found that highly offensive. Norm should have the decency to apologize and we should accept no less.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 23:55:24 CEST 2018 from (108.88.109.12)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bill M, the girl in the Chicago ballet/song suite was from the West Virginia city of Buckhannon (thus the "West Virginia Fantasies" in the song cycle) but James Pankow--the writer--misspelled it.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 23:27:42 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

But none of us here saw what was posted! Bob, I have to say I find your observations on "my circle" deeply offensive. You have no idea whatsoever about my life, my circle or my family. \


Entered at Tue Apr 17 23:20:24 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Peter, you can just go back to what Jeff posted on Sunday. This is the 3rd or 4th time Norm has said something like this. No worries. We'll just make believe it's all in fun.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 22:39:34 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Bob, I can't look at what Norm's joke was, because Jan very wisely deleted it. Trust Jan in this case (and every other, as our host). In the middle of the night, an argument blew up. I have no idea of the content but it had been brewing a long time.

As we say in England, handbags at dawn! Jeff v Norm. Seconds out!

But I feel describing a personal spat on the internet as anti-Semitism is an insult to people who have REALLY suffered anti-Semitism. As I have said, my dad was driving the BBC truck into Belsen while Richard Dimbleby was doing his famous broadcast. My dad had nightmares about that day for the rest of his short life. He died at age 54. Yesterday would have been his 106th birthday. My dad would never tolerate anti-Semitism, and nor do I. I didn't see the interchange but "anti-Semitism" appears somewhat overblown in this two way spat.

Jan deleted it. Rightly. Leave it there.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 22:19:14 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: The Line in the Sand

I sat here wasting a whole morning waiting for an amazon delivery that hasn't showed up.

I'm going to end this. I sat here having a reasonable conversation listening to all the criticism of me and accepted it. "I'm taking the high road", well now what a crock that is and I should apologize. Well I'll tell you what Bob. You have pretty much shown me you and your friend are a pair.

After the sarcastic comment you made to my friend Bill this morning, reminds me of one of your posts one of the rudest here ever commenting you wish Bill would leave this site and never come back. Before you say any more give your head a shake. I have treated you with respect and shared enjoyable conversation but if that has to end so be it. I have watched your friend in heated arguments with others being extremely rude and then demanding an apology.....just too crazy.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 22:18:29 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Peter, if you don't care to even look at what Norm said then that's that. You probably don't have any Jewish people in your circle. No skin off your back.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 21:57:21 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Bob (et al), my attitude is that Norm and Jeff have a long history of disliking each other's posts. The battle is ancient. I never saw the joke and I don't want to. As I said, I value both posters. I like both of them. I'm not sticking my head into the fight. It's a personal thing. Good advice, and if only Teresa May had taken it. At £1 million a missile, how many hospital jobs could you have saved?

Mel Gibson is the biggest lying bastard ever committed to film. And totally mad.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 21:12:28 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: As you see it

You'll be an old old man with a long white beard before that ever happens after the names I was called for a long time.

I got to thinking about the day Mike told me that joke. It was a few days before Christmas I was just buying a house. I was sitting in Mike's office signing papers. I got to babbling away about Christmas without thinking. Mike puts his pen on the paper, looks at me over his glasses and says, "Norm what do I know from Christmas....I'm a Jew". I say oh yeah, a Jewish Lawyer, that's scarey Mike. So he told me the joke. The thing is I see it as a compliment. As history goes Jewish people are very shrewd business men. There fore Jewish lawyers are scarey!


Entered at Tue Apr 17 21:00:46 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Norm, if Jeff got your joke right, that's a long way down the dumpster from the examples you're giving. Your joke was more Holocaust type humor. Not funny.

Jeff walks on some tough streets. He would have laughed at a Mel Brooks type joke. You should just apologize.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 20:44:39 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Tulsa Time

Bob, you must be aware of the time difference. The time that was told was "about 3:30 am". That would be 11:30 our time. That couldn't be right and I'll tell you why. It is very seldom that I make it past 10 PM and am still awake. There is a very seldom time that I wake up with arthritis really aching. I take something for it and may sit and travel the world on goggle earth. Once in a while I have looked at this site and generally some one like Peter may have said something that I reply to because if it is say midnight here it's about Peter's suppertime a day ahead of us.

As far as humor goes, in my wretched mind there is a very easy difference between humor and ridicule. Examples are every day on Seinfeld.

A girl thinks him and George are gay. When they realize this George is hollering, I'm not gay!.......(not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Jerry has a very pretty American native girl on one show. They are going out to dinner. Jerry says to her, are we going to need reser....oops! Then she has given him something, I forget what. She wants it back. He's saying but you gave it to me so are you a.........She says were you going to call me and "Indian Giver". This sort of thing and Monty Python, Mel Brooks to me is humor. I don't think we should ever be so on high alert that we can't laugh at ourselves.

Your premise is in a "proverb" I can kick my dog but you can't.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 20:28:04 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Yeah Yeah

Norm, you're taking the high road. Personally I think you told that joke just to aggravate Jeff. You're not Jewish so you have no business telling jokes about Jewish people. This is exactly what happened last time so you knew what you were doing. By the way, why are you and Jeff up at that time? You both should switch to Twitter so you can talk with Trump at 3AM.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 20:07:04 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Your Perspective

Bob in my last post I just made it clear we have the same problems in Canada, particularly as regards, First Nations people. What you are saying is your perspective. To me people are people and the ones who immediately take offense at anything in terms of humor are just as bad as people who really are racist. It is all unfortunately really a scene that will never go away.

By the way anti-Semitism goes back centuries before the 20th. The events that have boiled over in your country, (stirred up mostly by Trump) concerning racism and mob brutality just happen to be at the top of the news. I would love to be able to watch even our local news channels and see some good and happy news than to watch the goings on that we are subjected to. Problem is we are joined at the hip and there is no getting away from that fact.

As I said the other day, my grand father and grand mother were born in Skagit County in Washington State. I have a lot of relatives there as well as a lot of friends all over the USA. Many that I have communicated with for years that I found on this site and have left this site.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 19:45:33 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Norm, in all the years I've been on The GB the only time I have a problem with you is when you make remarks that I find offensive about Gay people and Jewish people. You've been around the world so I'm a little surprised you find that kind of humor funny. Most of the time I enjoy reading your posts and discussing music with you.

By the way you have many of the same problems in Canada that we have in America. Especially when it comes to racism. Please stop trying to make it sound like we're all a bunch of Trump supporting rednecks and Canada is the home of enlightenment.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 19:17:04 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Some things should be forgotten - some shouldn't

Y'know Bob this whole business has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. As I said before, (and there is so many posts here no one remembers them all). If you insinuate I had been drinking that is something I don't indulge in much any more.

My reference was motivated by this Michael Cohen drama that drenches the news these days. The joke I referred to was told to me by Mike Kruegel my Jewish friend and lawyer. I take Mike out fishing. My other close Jewish friend was our Jerry Tennenbaum. Jerry never knew his grand parents he lost to that holocaust.

The one thing I find pretty astounding is how there is no label such as anti-Semitism to cover what happens every day to the Afro Americans, as has just been shown at Star Bucks. There has never been a label for what has happened and still does to our aboriginal people of North America, (my grand mother was Salish Indian and Mexican). I repeat what I have said for ever at the end of the day we are all just people.

I have never felt good about ignoring any body in any form such as this, however I don't accept being called a "liar" amongst other things for so long. Therefore my only position is to ignore it.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 18:40:52 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Rock & Roll Never Forgets Holocaust Horrors

I've been listening to many of the songs listed in the linked article the past couple of days.

Norm, Interesting to bring up John Steinbeck who was targeted by antisemites even though he may not have been Jewish. They didn't like the Stein in his name. They considered Grapes Of Wrath jewish propaganda.

Todd, I think a 5th rule should be added:

Don't Be Posting If You've Been Drinking.

Peter, it seems like you find it easy to pass over this as a boys will be boys joke. But this is not the first time. I guess you still watch Mel Gibson movies.

Dunc, you are the true heart and soul of the Guestbook.

Jeff, you've been riding Norm for months. Some of it was good natured but I wouldn't have blamed him for letting you have it any other way.

Bill M, just once before I die or The GB folds I would love to see you surprise me.

My wife is Jewish so my kids are Jewish. My best friends are Jewish. I don't find anti semitism to be funny or acceptable. Shame on anyone who does.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 18:18:19 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Sardines

I had meant to say, after reading Cannery Row years ago, having been a fisherman I researched Monteray. We had the same thing happen with our herring fishery years ago. Now with internet it is so easy.

There is a lot of great history and research on the net. They almost completely wiped out that sardine fishery by over fishing. It seems to be coming back fairly strong now.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 18:07:48 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Films

I tried to see if Cannery Row had been filmed before 1982 but could find nothing. Not like Of Mice & Men". The part of the movie Cannery Row I found fascinating is the narrator telling the story. It was a great part of the movie and made it even funnier.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 17:48:21 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: I suspect that Dylan borrowed the line in "Open The Door Homer" (or Richard) about living "off the fat of the land" from "Of Mice and Men" (as opposed to the bible.) Steinbeckian Robertson songs would also include "Now I don't mind them chopping wood / And I don't really care that the money's no good / Just take what you need and leave the rest / But they should never have taken the very best". Come to think of it, a case might be made that the ribaldry of the denizens of "Cannery Row" and "Tortilla Flats" is echoed in a number of other Band songs - though Robbie clearly didn't agree at the time that "Californie is the place to be" (or place one's songs). And as for the whereabouts of "The Winter of Our Discontent", are there any sea caves in your neck of the woods?


Entered at Tue Apr 17 12:18:33 CEST 2018 from (203.160.29.183)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: And speaking of Scots...

Dunc: I am not sure if you know this or not (I'm betting you probably do), but there are a number of Steely Dan bootleg concerts from the 70s on youtube.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 11:25:01 CEST 2018 from (203.160.29.183)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: I'm not a Scot, but some of my oldest friends are...

Of mice and men...from a Robert Burns poem.

Off to google to check if my memory is correct.

These days can't say if it is trustworthy or not. : )


Entered at Tue Apr 17 09:45:06 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Glancing at random … one of Steinbeck's horrors in Monterey was to find the old movie theatre he used to go to had been re-named The John Steinbeck Theatre.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 09:42:34 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Back in 1968, only Grapes of Wrath and Of Mice & Men made it on our Am Lit “required reading” list. I strongly suspect that Of Mice & Men was there (it’s usually high school reading) to set essays to contrast with The Sound & The Fury.

Robbie has talked about discovering and reading Faulkner on the road with The Hawks. Must have read Steinbeck too … King Harvest is much more in Steinbeck’s area.

OK, The Sound & The Fury title is a quote from Macbeth. What about “Of Mice & Men.” No Googling. And Dunc will know.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 09:16:22 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Travels With Charley

Steinbeck says in the text that he stopped at motels every few days for ”hot luxuriant bathing” and that he took breaks in Chicago and on the West Coast. A couple of years ago I found a secondhand Folio Society edition for about £10 – slip case, hard cover, large size. The introduction has a lot on that – but fundamentally it’s true, and he did sleep in Rocinante many nights. I think the same is true of any travelogue and documentary.

My son was in an example in China when he was a student at the Shaolin Temple. A famous presenter in a TV documentary on China shared his spartan room for one night. Not so. Left at 10 pm after being filmed going to bed. Came back at 5 am to be filmed getting up and cleaning his teeth.

The same son thought Of Mice & Men the best book he ever read at school. My daughter placed it second (after Death of A Salesman). They were discussing it very recently when I had an advert for the play, currently touring the UK.

Have pulled out my Folio Travels With Charley to re-read sections. Looked at my Steinbeck row. I thought I had a complete set. But The Winter of Our Discontent has walked!

Zane Grey – the value lies entirely in the illustrated sleeves (the text is easily obtainable). This is true of most collectible books and obviously LPs. If the wax paper is over the coloured sleeve protecting it, these are very desirable copies.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 05:20:10 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Haso / Peter V: Come to think of it, I couldn't bring myself to fight through "Grapes of Wrath" either. Too sad and too clearly downhill. "In Dubious Battle" was no picnic either, but got to the point, and the end, a couple hundred pages faster. Not surprisingly, I haven't seen GoW the movie either. I did see the '39 "Of Mice and Men", with Burgess Meredith in 1982 - a surprise to me as he'd always been the Penguin to me up until then.

Band link: John Steinbeck's "Travels with Charlie" --- Graham Greene's "Travels with My Aunt" --- Greg Godovitz's "Travels with My Amp" in which young Greg buys Rick Danko's amp, thanks to an assist from his mother, a waitress at Friar's Tavern on Yonge Street.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 02:28:44 CEST 2018 from (71.234.142.242)

Posted by:

haso

Location: Seacoast NH

Subject: grapes

Peter: it was Grapes of Wrath, here as well. Also Tortilla Flat. Early on it might have been Steinbeck and Jack London, neck and neck. For some reason, one of the Quaids, Randy I'd say, resonated as Lennie in a Mice & Men production. Interesting story on GoW: years ago my wife had a student, complete non-reader (although interestingly owned a sign-making business) in his late 40's or so. When he was finally a proficient reader, he would tell anybody about his encounter w/ Grapes of Wrath. It meant so much, and touched on the hardship of his own upbringing, he would break into tears describing reading GoW. He said that "he could taste it". Taste it; I thought what an amazing way to put it.

Norm: I'll look into Stoney. And, like Peter, I'll read both your comments and Jeff's.

Pat, whatever your connection to Letterman, good on ya. His last minutes in the Mark Twain acceptance say it all; everytime I eat an m 'n' m I'm reminded of him (not mention Warren Zevon on youtube), hopefully we are all trying to help others, just a bit. But, do you really put W. and Buchanan below Harding? Of course, we may now be in a complete re-set.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 00:37:34 CEST 2018 from (72.139.202.132)

Posted by:

Bill M

Pat B: Keeping it light and musicly, I'll ask if the girl in the early Chicago song came from a town named after that very bad US president.


Entered at Tue Apr 17 00:28:57 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Books & Movies

Hi Pat! Good to see you again. John, like you I was disappointed to hear Peter tell us Travels with Charlie might be some fiction. Really enjoyed that book. You are welcome Bill. You've read far more than I. I read 5. I don't know which picture I most enjoyed. East of Eden was great because of James Dean. I really liked Gary Senise and John Malkovitch in Of Mice and Men and also really liked Nick Nolte and Debra Winger in Cannery Row.

Wondering if any of you have read any Zane Grey? I read quite a few as a young punker. When my old Mum passed a few years back she left me! I think because I read more than my brothers. Her entire library of Zane Grey. I have in my library here 33 beautiful hard cover volumes. She had always kept them covered in wax paper. I don't even know how long she had them all.

I am also a fan of Wilbur Smith of South Africa I have about a dozen of his books, 3 in hard cover. They are great stories and give you a great history of the English, Dutch and German in that country.

If any of you ever have a mind, my great grand father's books are an experience. I believe he wrote 45, his greatest (to my brothers and I) "Cruise of The Cachalot". He ran away from home and went to work on whaling ships at the age of 12. Just the other day my oldest brother showed me his Deep Sea First Mate Certificate. I didn't know Mum had given it to Howie when she passed. His name is Frank T Bullen, born in London, England.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 23:33:15 CEST 2018 from (63.142.158.9)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Pat B

Hi Pat - Stick around!!


Entered at Mon Apr 16 23:16:03 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Good to see Pat here. Letterman was always a major Band fan.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 22:08:08 CEST 2018 from (108.88.109.12)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bill M, I thought folks might be interested in a big time Band cultural reference. About 15 months but Buchanan had Dubya beat for worst.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 21:59:11 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The Red Pony is a story that students worldwide have read for exams in vast numbers. Too many even. "East of Eden" brings another novel v film question.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 20:53:26 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Rockin Chair: Thanks for mentioning Steinbeck, my first literary hero. Like Peter V et al, I read just about everything - though just couldn't make it through "Pippin IV" (which I think of as "Poison IV"). "In Dubious Battle" was my favourite, though if I still have anything left, it'd be the 'cheerleaders' (Alabama school desegregation) section of "Travels with Charley", which was anthologised in a worthwhile '60s paperback called something like "The Outsiders".

As for Steinbeck's place in schools of my day, we read "The Red Pony" in grade 7 and "Winter of our Discontent" in grade 12. "The Pearl" was commonly on the curriculum at my highschool too, though for some reason not my class. Also, everybody but me seemed to be shown "Grapes of Wrath" in class. So his politics were not a problem in Ontario.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 20:36:26 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Oddly, Steinbeck got dissed by the right, then a few years later by the left. He's still a genius to me.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 20:29:56 CEST 2018 from (68.116.44.170)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Steinbeck - Commie!

Growing up in Cal during the anti Communist hysteria I recall that he was throroughly dissed due to what was perceived to be sympathetic that way, pro union, etc. I don’t know if he was formally banned but the nuns were having none of him. We had to find his stuff quietly. I’m a big fan too and I know his part of California very well.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 20:01:18 CEST 2018 from (99.227.166.246)

Posted by:

John D

Web: My link

Subject: Steinbeck

Big fan. I've visited Salinas a couple of time. Interesting that the temperature on the coast in Monterey went up 15 degrees; when driving inland to the land of Steinbeck. Hate hearing the story that Charley was a fictitious story to a degree. Glad I hadn't heard that; before reading the book. Went to his gravesite. Hope tis link works.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 18:18:58 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Steinbeck

Steinbeck … we had a General Studies teacher from age 16-18 (Roger will know him well). His main job was Head of French. He introduced us to “Cannery Row”. I went out and bought “Tortilla Flat.” Then that summer I read Grapes of Wrath, The Log From “The Sea of Cortez”, Travels With Charley (apparently a fake – he mainly stayed in 5 star hotels). I couldn’t stop. By the time I got to university, I’d read the complete works including The Short Reign of Pippin IV and the early pirate stuff. Steinbeck was the reason I chose to do American Studies, so Cannery Row was life-changing for me. Once I got to do American Literature, he was well out of favour (or fashion) sadly.

Visiting Monterey, CA was a major disappointment. Not as I’d imagined it, in spite of all the Cannery Row ashtrays, T-shirts and coffee cups.

Then you get the Grapes of Wrath question, “Is the film better than the book or vice-versa?”


Entered at Mon Apr 16 17:24:33 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: I'll be right over!

No great obsession Peter. You would be interested tho' A long time friend who used to be on here some and I have been discussing the books of John Steinbeck. I believe it was yesterday that was the 78th anniversary of the "Grapes of Wrath". Between that book, Of Mice and Men, and Cannery Row I couldn't pick a favourite. Love 'em all.

I guess the very saddest thing is to watch long time friends who were strong great men fight these debilitating diseases. Watching my friends be eaten by cancer and now watching Mac fight this Parkinson's disease is very hard. He is such a great guy.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 16:46:53 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Dorset Chainsaw Massacre

We have two wood-burning stoves and an open fire. The 'ready to use' woodshed is largely depleted as it's this period of the year when you don't need the central heating on, but need something extra in the evening that uses the wood up fast. I have a one year old pile and a two year old pile of large logs ageing away. So I could do with a man with a chainsaw to come round to the house, though NOT if he is still incensed about the Dixie lyrics.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 16:04:56 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Jerry Jeff

Hey Haso, I figured you would know Jerry Jeff's work. Give Stoney a listen if you get a chance. I'm sure you will like it.

I've got to get to work. My firewood area is full, but I have an old friend who si a retired RCMP officer. He has been set upon with Parkinson's Disease. I got to cut him some firewood thru' the dry season son that come fall his wood shed is full for him and his wife.

To be clear :

Anti-Semitism. It seems too many people who use the term don't really understand it. Read it. I have, a lot, for a long time. The categories you will find certainly are not me. However, I could be convicted of being a hardcore fan of, Monty Python, Jerry Seinfeld, and Mel Brooks. My fate is to spend the rest of my days walking the face of the earth being prosecuted.......oh woe is me.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 10:58:13 CEST 2018 from (31.48.108.90)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: anti-semitism

Anti semitism has no place in this guestbook.

It is an international guestbook, which is its strength in that we learn about other countries' music, but we often don't know what is happening in other countries.

Just now, anti semitism in the Labour Party is a big issue. There is anti semitism in the Labour Party and there is a feeling that the Labour Party has not done enough to deal with this. This anti semitism has upset many long standing members of the Labour Party.

In Scotland, the Jewish population is small and there was zero or almost zero anti semitism. Jewish people historically were respected as people of the old testament. However in 2014, there was a marked increase in anti semitism linked to the situation in Gaza.

Thirty-two% of the Scottish Jewish population (only a few thousand) talked about a heightened level of anti semitism in Scotland.

It starts with jokes, comments, then abuse, but only one assault I can find. (But I feel ashamed that this has happened). Our government is working hard to stop this.

If somebody is making any sort of racist remark, they should be banned from the GB. The problem is in a GB is when somebody thinks they are being funny and it is thoughtless. Education is the way forward.

The other thing is that there is little you can do on a GB, except scroll past or leave. I remember coming in to this very pro Levon GB at that time and a fellow GBer asking for more support for Robbie. What was she expecting me to do? Headbutt the computer.

I enjoy the GB, and hope everybody keeps posting in a loving environment. I love all your posts. And no bad taste.

Thanks, Todd, you made a big effort.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 09:44:11 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Regional prejudice

A minor sideways expansion on prejudice.

When I was a Southerner at a Northern university (Hull), it was a daily chore to listen to comments on my accent from shop assistants to bus conductors. In my home town of Bournemouth in the South, dependent I guess on the tourist trade, we never openly took the piss out of the many Northern visitors to their faces. We would have done among ourselves. I guess that’s why we were called two-faced! Just buying a bus ticket in Hull, our accents were mimicked as if we were speaking like Prince Charles to hilarity from other passengers. Because of the non-tourist nature of the area (Hull didn’t even get visitors from the rest of the North) , I suppose we were far rarer than Northerners were in the South. When I was a kid, every corner sweet shop in Bournemouth belonged to a retired Northern couple, whose dream was owning a little shop in the warmer South. I used to think it was fucking rude, but I sighed and lived with it.

It would extend to asking girls to dance at dances (and later when touring the North with a band). They’d hear your accent and say things like “Ooh, where’s your talcum powder, luv?” or “Do you want to borrow my lipstick?” There was then (1970) a standing joke that collocated “Southern” and “poof” (i.e. gay). We were held to use talcum powder and after-shave in excessive quantities. Actually, it never stopped them dancing with us, it was a kind of opening banter. And girls generally value cleanliness.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 09:32:19 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Wise and thoughtful words, Todd.

There are enough clashes and ultimatums in the world outside at the moment (and I’m the guiltiest on political references).

I have explained privately what Prince Philip has said when accused of insensitive remarks (again). It’s “nautical language.” On a boat, in a small army unit, even in a small film crew everything is up for comment in the all-male interpersonal banter: physical appearance, sexual orientation, body odour, personal habits, religion and indeed ethnicity. However, the world accepts rightly that there is a line on two areas: Anti-Semitism and use of the N-word. Leo Rosten made a living out of Jewish jokes as a genre and Jeff has posted some too. But we still know there is a line on the type of joke. OK, I didn’t see it, but I assume the line was crossed. It was deleted. Jan dealt with the issue. Period. Leave it there, don’t dredge up whatever the offending joke was.

Norm and Jeff have not got on for a long time. So ignore each other.

I value the posts from both of you.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 07:04:46 CEST 2018 from (32.216.224.42)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: The Menzingers - Lookers

Haso, Thanks. Glad that you like some of the links.

I didn't get any takers on The Menzingers that I posted a week or so ago. Pop Punk band that originated in Scranton, PA but now based out of Philly. Doing it the old fashioned way. Getting in a van and going to the people.

The link above has a clip from their recent album called 'After The Party'. I would never have heard of them without the internet, but now I own 5 of their CD's.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 05:39:52 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Pat B: Nice to see you posting - and it didn't take one of us dying. As you're here, when was the last time you thought that Dubya was the Worst US President Ever?


Entered at Mon Apr 16 05:08:04 CEST 2018 from (71.234.142.242)

Posted by:

haso

Location: Seacoast NH

Subject: Jerry Jeff, our Jeff's sister

Norm: Yep I did realize Jerry Jeff wrote that, although you know his stuff better than I. Only time I saw him was more or less about when your front seats came on. He was the warm-up to Emmy Lou who was warm up to Willie at a concert in Portland, ME. The one thing I remember is J. Jeff playing Willin', maybe an encore, not sure. For the longest time I thought that he wrote that as well, before finding out it was Lowell George. Unfortunately I was a bit late to the party on Feat, I think he was passed by the time I really connected to them. To this day I'm not sure if Waiting for Columbus outdoes Fillmore East, LaTA/RoA, or Skynyrd's One More from the Road, for me on "live" albums; TLW being an entirely different animal because of the range of performers. Although the conversations here about "live" are usually over my head.

Speaking of which, I'm glad to hear Mtn Stage is still running well. Jeff, you're absolutely right about this site/our collective ages/links to newer artists. That's why I've finally started following Todd's links to Larkin and Bob F's to his daughter's excellent stuff. Now, I gotta get more open-minded to electronica/Cashmere Cat's production; or is that even an accurate categorization, Jan. Certainly, I'd never get any paying work done, if I followed all of your connections, Jeff. It's actually pretty cool how well versed many gb folks are in 20th and 21st century culture. Years back, when you waxed eloquent on Roosevelt Sykes, it was a Wow moment. For me that's as much a deep cut as Larry Groce.

Was Encinal Canyon Rd a right location for Shangri-La? Yeah, not having a younger sister, I've had to inflict my tastes on my kids. Fortunately, they still listen to our 5, the Allmans and Feat. Or at least they make out that they do. Of course, no doubt my son still remembers his parents censoring early Green Day to his 7th grade ears. Now, I suppose Billie Joe's pop-punk is classic; we learned (well, I better not speak for my spouse), although I'm not sure we ever apologized. Then again we'll see down the road what he thinks is a negative influence on his kids.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 04:06:08 CEST 2018 from (32.216.243.103)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Music

Thanks Dunc, I'm glad that you liked the links. I try not to go overboard with the links, but it's a great way to hear new music as a sampler. many times I've gone on to purchase things that I've learned about here in the guestbook.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 03:59:44 CEST 2018 from (32.216.243.103)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Rules of the Road

I just reviewed the four simple rules that appear on the posting page. They're really pretty simple, and I'm going to think about them, the next time I hit the submit button.

1 - Do not use the guestbook for personal messages.
2 - Think before you post. Don't post anything you would not dare to say to someone face to face.
3 - Do not post serious insults, personal attacks or too many four-letter words.
4 - Respect that this is a web site in honour of The Band and their music.

I've probably violated most of these rules at one time or another. But I think that number 4 is the most important, and I'm going to do a better job of that in the future.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 03:49:00 CEST 2018 from (32.216.243.103)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Against my better judgement

It's no secret that Jeff & Norm clash. And I do think that Norm was possibly trying to get under Jeff's skin with that "joke". But I don't think that Norm is a hater. But he knows how to push Jeff's buttons. The problem is that the lawyer joke was offensive to many other people not named Jeff. And that's probably why jan deleted it. To avoid continued discussion like this (which I'm guilty of right now), that has nothing to do with the core mission of this place which is to share our love of the music of the Band and related artists. Sure, other topics are going to creep in from time to time, but it's kind of unfair to give jan extra work to do in this free forum that he provides.

So maybe we can collectively grow up and self-police a little better. Or take any disputes private?

And quite honestly, I hope that this post gets deleted, because I'm getting weary of seeing my name. And why am I so concerned that grown up men can't get along? I've got 53 problems in my life, and I shouldn't make this another one of them. Certainly don't need this to make it to the archives to be part of my legacy.


Entered at Mon Apr 16 01:29:22 CEST 2018 from (108.88.109.12)

Posted by:

Pat B

The Band made a surprise appearance on David Letterman's Netflix series. As part of the Jay-Z interview, Dave took a side trip to Shangri-La to interview present owner Rick Rubin. Rubin mentioned that RR and The Band built the studio in 1976 which is off by a year but OK. They included a photo of the boys taken, ironically enough, in Woodstock circa 1971.

Asking Jan to re-post an exchange he found unworthy is silly enough, but demanding a general shunning in an open forum is pretty funny.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 23:39:47 CEST 2018 from (32.216.243.103)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Life and How We Live It

Well, here goes. It should go with out saying that there’s no place for anti-semitism here (or anywhere for that matter). While I seriously doubt that Norm is an anti-semite, and it feels weird even having to type that, it’s not a cool joke by any stretch.

But I think Norm & Jeff’s real problem is that they simply don’t get along. I’ve taken a long absence from the guestbook for various reasons, but since I've been checking in more frequently, I’ve noticed that Jeff has been trying to engage Norm on a very regular basis and from what I can tell, Norm has been trying to ignore him and doesn’t want any part of conversing with him. Well, Norm finally took the bait, and this is the result.

They would probably be better served if they each ignored each other, and focussed on music, which they both seem genuinely passionate and knowledgeable about. For what it’s worth, I’ve had good and friendly conversations with both Norm and Jeff, but I try to find the good and some common ground with everyone, especially if they have the good sense to be Band fans (you take what you need and you leave the rest). I don’t always succeed, and I’m far from perfect, but it’s so much easier in life to get along if you can.

Years ago, I was called a racist in one of the guestbooks (may have been the pink one) because I had the temerity to question, then candidate, Obama’s fiscal policy, and wondered how we were possibly going to pay for everything he was promising. As the deficit practically doubled under this watch, I think we now have the answer. Of course since then, I’ve realized that neither party “genuinely” cares about holding the line on spending, as we’ve seen deficits continue to rise. I’ve learned that politicians mainly care about getting power and keeping power, and it doesn’t matter of there is a “D” or “R” next to their name. They have no problem spending our money if it will let them keep power. I’m disappointed in Trump, Obama, and Bush. I’ve resisted talking about politics here, because life is too short, and it often leads to hard feelings, but in last November’s election, I voted for a write-in candidate, for the first time in my life. As Connecticut is too small to affect the outcome, and almost always votes Democrat, anyway, I knew that it wouldn’t make a difference, but I wanted to make sure that I was voting FOR someone, rather than against, (or the lesser of two evils), as is usually the case. I think Trump was a horrible candidate, and I think Hillary’s chance should have been in 2008. And now look at the mess we are in.

After I was called a racist, (for simply trying to have a fiscal policy discussion) just a few people came to my defense and that support was appreciated. So I know the sting of a charge like that, and how a few words of support can make a big difference. Peter V., Pat B, and the late JTull Fan supported me publicly in the Guestbook, and Jeff A, supported me privately. I’ve agreed and disagreed with all of those guys, on varying topics, but I know that they love the Band and that’s a pretty good connection to have.

So in short, I don’t think Norm is an anti-semite, but probably should go back to ignoring Jeff like he had been doing. And probably filter out the “jokes” a little better.

But I also don’t like ultimatums, and I don’t like telling other people what to to. We’re all big boys and girts and should be able to play nicely in the sandbox, or at least avoid conflicts.

So, I’ll decide who I’ll converse with. If either Jeff and Norm have a problem with that, then I suppose they can ignore me if they like.

In the meantime, I’ll do my best to avoid topics dealing with race, politics and religion, and focus on music related posts. It’s easy enough to scroll. Just because something is I the news, doesn’t mean it warrants a response. Silnec on any give topic does not equal tacit support and should not be interpreted as such.

Funny thing about this is that I don’t think Norm or Jeff are Trump fans, and this is probably more ink than Michael Cohen deserves…..no matter what his background is. To be honest, I have bigger fears about the continued assault on the 4th amendment and other abuses, but won’t be discussing that here.

The alternative is that we all start playing hall monitor, and point out everything that’s objectionable. I’m not a holy roller, or born again type, but I have my faith, which I view as a personal matter, and I’ve learned to ignore the occasions where Christianity is mocked or vilified. But that would get old fast, and dilute the mission here which is to celebrate the music that we love.
Peace.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 23:00:06 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.223)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Jan

Jan. I expect you have the exchange. Maybe you can put the entire exchange back up , right where it was chronologically & let people decide for themselves what was going on.

To those of you who were not around when Norm entered The GB in 2003- Norm has always been the problem. Now he seems to have trouble understanding that even on the internet people have the right to choose what environment they hang out in.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 22:09:04 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Ethnic Jokes

The joke I referred to was told to me by my lawyer friend Mike Kruegel. Some people see the humor in jokes some don't. There are Neufie jokes Irish jokes, Aussie, Indian and a lot more. Some see the humor, some just take great offense. That's just silly.

Jerry Tennenbaum was a very good friend of mine. I have many e mails from Jerry I kept. This school boy stuff, "If you talk to him you can't be my friend" is also silly. Not long after I started posting here in 2001 when Tracey had her pink page here and then Norbert took the helm for a while I took a lot of crap insult and ridicule from that "Put 'Em up Jeff" guy who wanted to be nothing but confrontational. Now I just ignore him as do others.

The political climate in the USA right now is better than any soap opera. No one could write scripts that good. All I am commenting on is what I see on TV. A Jewish Lawyer who packs a gun and threatens and bribes people. Not my words just what I watch. It's so pathetic as to be funny.

If this guy wants to call me names and cry, that is nothing new.

I listen to John Fogerty's song "I saw it on TV" and think how it relates to today. Also "Who'll Stop The Rain".

Guy Clarke and Billyjo Shaver, Jerry Jeff and Ray Wylie Hubbard.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 22:08:15 CEST 2018 from (174.232.134.22)

Posted by:

Calvin

Agreed Jeff. I'd like to believe if I had seen Norm's "joke"I would have said something.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 21:28:26 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Norm

Jeff, agreed,


Entered at Sun Apr 15 21:19:53 CEST 2018 from (100.33.245.182)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Norm

Agree,JeffA.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 18:20:46 CEST 2018 from (70.55.241.73)

Posted by:

Stan L.

Subject: Norm

Well said, Jeff A.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 17:57:10 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.223)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Anti Semitism in the GB

About 3 AM Sunday, NY time, using the subject line "Jewish Lawyers" Norm began a post with Michael Cohen, ending with the "story" he recalled- "What's four Jewish lawyers at the bottom of the ocean..... a start. :-)"

We had a two post exchange apiece. I indicated Norm was expecting me to respond with an argument and close to this question: Are you a drunk stupid moron tonight or just a stupid moron:-) Notice the :-) We can't possiby have an argument Norm:-) Right buddy :-) All the :-)s I;m using means we can;t argue over this.... etc etc

Norms defense was that he was just setting me up. "It worked!"..... "one of my best lawyers, Mike Krugel is a gawd damn Jew."

There was no apology or retraction.

I am certain that many of you remember Norm has made anti semitic posts before and has used his Jewish lawyer the same way former Alabama Judge & Senatorial candidate , KKK member, Roy Moore 's wife used theirs..

Jan deleted all of it. Very quickly.

I wish i had thought to save the posts. It's been so long since anything had to be deleted that I forgot it would happen. It is not he first time that Norm has posted strong anti semitic sentiments here. I had writtne about ti with Jerry Tennenbaum, remember him? Jerry decided to just write it off to ignorance...

Those of you who continue to converse with Norm are supporting an anti semitic bastard. If Norm was a US citizen he'd be a Trump supporter.

Most of you are really good people. If Norm continues to be accepted as a member of this community, I will not be posting here.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 17:12:02 CEST 2018 from (174.104.129.230)

Posted by:

Calvin

Just saw a pretty good documentary Rockin Chair on Skynard called "If I leave Here Tomorrow." The surviving band was very involved in the project, and when I saw it their was actually a guy, a band support member, who survived the crash in the audience. The directed decided not to include "celebrity" Interviews, the only one I noticed is Charlie Daniels sneaking in during an interview of Rossington.

The Best of the Housemartins

Jerry Lee Lewis (1958)

Rock and Rollin with Fats Domino

Here's Little Richard

Got it Together-Chris Butler


Entered at Sun Apr 15 16:57:39 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Scottish Drums

Dunc, listing to Michael Marra's lovely To Beat The Drum made me think of The Waterboys Don't Bang The Drum. Songs aren't familiar but there's something. Give it a listen.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 16:54:04 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Stoney

Thanks for that Bob. That is really interesting to me. I often wondered what became of Stoney. Pretty cool how a guy from New York like Jerry Jeff became such a cowboy.

I meant to say, as I mentioned the Commodore had all the seating in booths along the sides raised two steps off the dance floor. As no one was dancing and every one was standing on the floor, while Jerry Jeff was singing Stoney of course I'm watching him. Weird gives me a nudge. Look behind us he says. Well just about every guy was holding a girl in his arms in front of him and they were all just swaying to the music. It was cool.

I got myself to reliving some of that time here now. Those days for me and my guys were gold because the music we loved to play was pouring off the pen and paper then. Jerry Jeff first got me turned on to Guy Clarke's "LA Freeway". There was Billyjo Shaver's, "I'm Just an Old Chunk of Coal". Another Guy Clarke, "Blowin Like a Bandit". I could go on a long time with that music. Particularly the country rock. We played a lot of Charlie Daniels, Lynrd Sknyrd, Marshall Tucker Band and Eddy Raven. Eddy Raven is a Cajun boy that some of you should listen to his work it is great.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 16:09:57 CEST 2018 from (156.204.24.48)

Posted by:

be4landscape

Location: Egypt

Subject: grass

سعر النجيل الصناعي في مصر


Entered at Sun Apr 15 15:32:48 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Stoney

Norm, Stoney is a great song. The guy the song is written about H.R. Stoneback is a professor at SUNY New Paltz. He taught a class my son had to take last year.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 14:51:13 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Beefheart & Bones

A Michael Marra record stuffed with references dear to every record collectors heart. A brilliant lyric … this is a striped down live version. I prefer the studio but couldn't find it on YouTube


Entered at Sun Apr 15 11:14:47 CEST 2018 from (81.157.143.195)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Last five played

Stealers Wheel' - if you've not got 'Stuck In The Middle' in your collection, it's not complete. Discuss.

Robert Johnson -'The Complete Recordings' - first time I've had this out for a couple of years.

Maura O'Connell - 'Helpless Heart' - Beautiful album. The Bela Fleck guitar album, Dlew that we discussed in another time in another place.

Steely Dan - 'Pretzel Logic' -loving this Steely Dan retirement project. I had heard all the material, but on vinyl I only had 'Can't Buy A Thrill', 'Katy Lied' and 'Greatest Hits'. Loving spending time on the albums.

Stephen Stills - 'Manassas'. I'va always had this album, and find something new in it every time.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 10:59:37 CEST 2018 from (81.157.143.195)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Thanks

Thanks Todd and Jeff for posting songs. Really enjoyed the Tom Waits cover and Tommy Emmanuel et al post. Great stuff.

Thanks Rockin Chair- really interesting Jerry Jeff post.

Wish I had been with you, Bill M. The only thing I am not getting now in retirement is attendance at football dinners. Speeches are my favourite form of comedy.

Thanks Bob F. I knew Mike Scott thought Michael Marra was really good, but had never seen that post. Great stuff, I liked how you heard every word he sang. The words 'ill chosen ground' refer to the Battle of Culloden, where the Jacobites were defeated because they couldn't do their Highland charge down hill - one of several reasons. The defeated led to genocide, punitive measures against the clans, Highland clearances and that's why many of you of Scots descent are over there,

Two good Michael Marra covers are June Tabor 'Happed In Mist' and Loudon Wainwright III 'Hermless' 'Harmless'

Peter alludes to quotes and references in Michael Marra songs. On Youtube give 'Bob Dylan's Visit To Embra' a go. Look out for references and the parody harmonica playing. Great song.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 05:50:36 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

I got to see this speech by beloved Newfoundland comedian Mary Walsh on Thursday and couldn't help but share it here for the anti-Trump screed near the start. No wonder the Bank of England governor, who was up next, noted that she's a hard act to follow.


Entered at Sun Apr 15 04:47:39 CEST 2018 from (1.42.191.236)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I see Jan posted a couple of links to radio interviews on the What's New page. There is one more with Levon people may not have heard from 1980. You should be able to find it if you google: WHFS - Levon Helm Interview 1980


Entered at Sun Apr 15 03:37:37 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Working Senior Musicians

Opry City Stage opened up in times Square.Gotta be a very expensive tourist trap, they even included a NYC version of the Nashville BlueBird Songwriters in the round thingy....

about a week from now Yonkers native Chip Taylor ( Wild Thing) will be playing there. John Platania, of course a long time membrer of Van Morrison's band, has been a collaborator of Taylors for longer & is part of the show.. And the bassist that works with them, Tony Mercadante wil be as well. Platania is also a memeebr of The cromatix. As such he appeared on Ro Rinos first recording..

Taylor looks a lot like his brother, Jon Voight.



Entered at Sat Apr 14 23:30:13 CEST 2018 from (100.33.245.182)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Dead Noodling

From 1968-1977 the Dead’s noodling had great cosmic and musical significance.After ‘77 I was able to distinguish between the shows they were on coke,junk,alcohol or all of the above-it was all easily heard in the music after ‘77.As a result of their decline and reliance on unhealthy drugs,the noodling lost all purpose and direction and mostly its significance.Drums/Space,as it was callled,was a nod to a relic of their past.But it was contrived,a mere act and more of a showcase for drum solos that ran way too long.The jamming and so called noodling in past years had incredible structure and developed having the perfect trajectory for those on psychedelics.An obvious musical outgrowth of the acid tests.It was pretty darn jazzy,bluesy,and rockin’ our asses off all at once.If you got time,check out all the live shows on the Grateful Dead archive or just jams collections and Dave’s Picks on YouTube.


Entered at Sat Apr 14 23:29:44 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Bootleg Beatles

They're touring UK and Europe and Australia this year, John. No list for North America though.


Entered at Sat Apr 14 21:44:14 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Haso, Mountain stage & Larry Groce are still going strong. Always great radio.I don't think you were around tears ago the times i wrte about it, but my sister lived in Rick's old studio apartment in shangri La for about a year, round 89. She had been living in Brentwood at my great uncles house for a bit, then got a job in Malibu and saw an ad for a studio apartment...when she went to look at the place she hit it off with Harold ( i think) Grinell and his wife Mai, Harold was a retired (schmata manufacturer at that point, and also from Brooklyn. So my sister got the tour, took the studio, and called me up- You'll never guess whose place I'm moving into! She's 6 or 7 years younger than I, and i had dragged her to some Poco and Band shows since she was about 13. took her to many Danko & Dead shows of various types too, when she got older. I visited LA once while she lived there. met Grinell, got the tour, saw Richard's & Mr Ed's place etc.....

OF course we talk about older artists / players- think about that and this website & our age) but there are plenty of people posting about working musicians of all ages. Not all posts get read or responded to and that is how it is, how it always has been. Some people get ticked off about it but should realize that;s always been the case here....I've been writing about working musicians forever.... Alot of em are unknown to the average person but they work steady and it';s usually work people hear or see. No one got to care about what i write or delve into it- but if anyone looks into the names in just one post of mine- & follows the names, links, you tubes, reads about these players, they coudl spend all day listening to stuff... Other people write about workign players alot too....whether people gloss over, or don;t, have time to follow or don;t.,that's up to them. but, there is plenty here to track down.


Entered at Sat Apr 14 21:33:55 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Mr Bojangles

I'm with you Haso. I play a lot of Derek Trucks. A vid of him playing Layla with EC, and Derek takes the solo is super. Also some videos of him with Los Lobos are to my taste.

I expect you probably know Jerry Jeff Walker wrote Mr Bojangles. Back in the 70's I played a lot of Jerry Jeff's stuff. Find on youtube, "Stoney" not live but the album version. When you search Stoney, Jerry Jeff walker one video will show a sky with clouds. Probably one of the best songs yer ever going to hear.

Here's a story, I think about 78 or 79 I'm not sure. A friend of mine was program director for one of the Vancouver radio stations. Weird Harold. He would often slip me cassettes that he was sent from different artists promoting their music. For example in the Vancouver area I was playing Steve Earl's "Guitar Town" with my band before anyone around our area had even heard it, along with quite a lot of stuff. Any way one day Weird calls me he says, "Jerry Jeff is coming to the Commodore, I got free tickets. So I was able to take the time and we went. The Commodore Ball Room in Vancouver is one of the best rooms you could ever hear live music. Down the length of the place is one long dance floor. The seating is booths all along the sides. However when there is a concert people lots of time just stand. It's supposed to hold about 800. That night there was 1300 people there. My friend Weird was friends with the owner. Right up in front of the stage was a few tables with 4 chairs at each. We were given a table about 10 feet from Jerry. At this time Jerry Jeff had got hisself in a lot of shit drinking. So the Lost Gonzo Band bailed on him for a while. This night he was alone. Sitting on a chair with an Ovation same as one of mine singing all his songs he wrote. He was sweating his ass off but damn he sounded good and he was really working. I says to him play Stoney Jerry. He says, "You know that one". I said I play it all the time. We were friends then.


Entered at Sat Apr 14 20:48:50 CEST 2018 from (71.234.142.242)

Posted by:

haso

Location: Seacoast NH

Subject: The Dead, Larry Groce

Todd and Peter V: I'd be in your camp as far as early Dead being most preferable. Never found a lot to fault about Workingman's Dead, although I've only seen a little mention that would connect them going that route after MFBP. Norm's point of us mostly commenting on long-in-the-tooth artists is well taken. That'd be another reason that I often push Tedeschi Trucks Band here. I realize they play off an older regime: Allmans, Bonnie Raitt, the Dead etc, but at least they're trying to keep it current and actually play instruments w/out it all being filtered through a computer. To my ear, Susan's take on Angel from Montgomery is superior to that of Raitt's and she often melds it with Sugaree.

No doubt, I would raise a ruckus w/ some Deadheads about live shows. I know when I saw them, the noodling around for 45 minutes straight, under a light show ball got pretty damn tedious. Thanks, Todd too for those Larkin Poe links.

So, Bob F: you've given a spin to Green Pastures are Before me! That's deep cut; yet I know it well. Glenn and I talk via e-mail at times. For those unfamiliar, this is an lp of hymm music w/ I would guess, more than 1/2 featuring Garth playing various keyboards, doing a lot of his "holy shit, where'd that come from", fills. There's a credit as well, w/ he and Maude both being part of the "Chorusters" and one of the hymns got remixed at Shrangli-La. In fact the imprint of Peaceable Records shows an address of Encinal Canyon Rd., Malibu. Anyone know if that corresponds to Shrangli-La?

Larry Groce, who graduated from the same, small private college as Glenn t and me (Jeff A: remember a previous discussion of Alton, IL and environs?), worked for my mom some when he was in school. I knew him a little bit, when he and one of my oldest friends would put on a coffee house in the summertime for a bunch of older, usually wealthy, possible donors. Kind of a classic singer-songwriter of the time (early '70's). I think I 1st heard Mr. Bojangles from him, before I had the Dirt Band version of it. I remember as a punky high school kid, showing him some poetry I wrote; alas it was not at all lyrical.

Last I knew, Larry was still the main guy at a Public Radio show from West Virginia called Mountain Stage. A little bit a poor man's Prairie Home Companion, w/ more emphasis on music. Levon, Rick and I think, Garth all played on it, probably in the 90's. If memory serves, one of Larry's early lp's was fronting the Dillards. Their name has been mentioned here in the bluegrass vein (Peter V, maybe?; someone from that side of the Atlantic). Then for the, perhaps, ridiculous, Larry had a song on the old Dr. Demento show called Junkfood Junkies. Anyway, I hope Mountain Stage still runs; be still good stuff for West VA I'd suggest.


Entered at Sat Apr 14 20:50:41 CEST 2018 from (99.227.166.246)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Bootleg Beatles

Best imitators I think I've seen. The Fab Faux don't pretend to look like them they just sound so flawless as well. Does the Bootleg Beatles ever tour outside of England Peter? Love to see a whole show.


Entered at Sat Apr 14 19:31:43 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Bootleg Beatles

Just so you can see what they were like … link is to Sergeant Pepper (Reprise) / A Day In The Life Of. I saw them with a 5 piece orchestra … this is a festival last year with full orchestra.


Entered at Sat Apr 14 17:42:36 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

That article shows Marra as man who led a good, fruitful life that was meaningful to him and a lot of other people. Including plenty he could reach out & touch in his home haunts.


Entered at Sat Apr 14 16:41:08 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Article on Michael Marra when he passed

If like me you were in the dark about Michael Marra before Dunc started telling us about him, this article about his death and legacy is a good read. Mike Scott led the tributes.


Entered at Sat Apr 14 16:23:49 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Mike Scott & Michael Marra

Dunc, the video is kind of rough but very cool. Mike Scott performing a Michael Marra song in Glasgow 2009.


Entered at Fri Apr 13 17:37:10 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Turn - Turn - Turn

I think I was slightly misunderstood. I'm well aware of how well known, popular and wealthy John Mayer and Keith Urban are. Also in the 80's when the "Desert Rose Band" were at the top of their game, my band was the hottest country rock band in the Vancouver area. We played a lot of their music.

My point was on this site......there is very little discussion on working artists. Many of the guitar players etc that are discussed here are walking with a cane or dead, (Jerry Garcia).

I've read that young John Mayer is an ego-maniac, (just read that). Keith Urban however is every where. There is videos of him playing with just about any body. A lot of our old rockers, such as John Fogerty. Keith seems always to be gracious and respectful and fits right in and does huge justice to any thing he plays. I guess I just personally am impressed with a young guy like that who keeps up the old music and does it right.

By the way, has any one seen this kid "Sawyer Fredricks"? On one of those talent shows, maybe the Voice. He looks like a girl I thought at first. I guess a pretty good singer, and not bad acoustic player. The thing is I saw on my sidebar this video so I watched it. They got John Fogerty and his whole band playing with this kid....now don't matter how good you are that is one hell of an endorsement. Him and John are standing beside each other singing. A couple of times it's hard to figure which is singing which line.


Entered at Fri Apr 13 17:19:41 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Michael Marra

There are so many brilliant little touches in the songs musically & lyrically. For example, towards the end of "Letter from Perth" you just get a little bit of the Walk Like A Man (Four Seasons) melody. But little musical, lyrical and song title quotes abound. Still listening today, but I made up my own 78 minute compilation CDR which is permanently in the car.


Entered at Fri Apr 13 16:20:34 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Last 5

I thing it was Peter who said once you start listening to Michael Marra it's hard to stop. So true. Thanks Dunc for turning us on to this great treasure from your country. Thanks to Glenn for turning me on to the Larry Croce. Another beautiful record.

Michael Marra - Pax Vobiscum

Michael Marra - Gaels Blue

Robert Burns Album

Larry Groce - Green Pastures Are Before Me

Alice Marra - Chain Up The Swings



Entered at Fri Apr 13 14:42:27 CEST 2018 from (101.191.17.148)

Posted by:

dlew919

Subject: Sierra Hull

Todd: Her last album is worth getting. She's not 'there' yet (it's her second or third album), but she's a long way down the track.


Entered at Fri Apr 13 14:29:23 CEST 2018 from (101.191.17.148)

Posted by:

dlew919

Subject: I'm spinning around

Teh Svengalis prefer talent, I suspect - it's cheaper than hiring 2 singers, etc... look at what happens when you get caught out: Milli Vanilli...


Entered at Fri Apr 13 12:55:59 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Kylie

Kylie’s early career was the sound of my kids’ school run daily so the early hits are imprinted on my brain. She was a Stock-Aitken-Waterman “creation” then (or even “creature”). But as so often the people in manufactured bands or careers turn out to be genuinely talented … Mike Nesmith, Robbie Williams etc. In his Stock-Aitken-Waterman days I’m told that Jason Donovan mimed to a live session singer on stage because they thought he couldn’t sing. However, a long recent career of lead parts in major London musicals has proved that he can. These Svengalis are sometimes good talent spotters.


Entered at Fri Apr 13 05:48:08 CEST 2018 from (32.216.237.100)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: Mandolin

Peter V, Thanks. For me the Dead is often hit or miss. After my glowing review last night, I figured I would grab a few discs to play in the car today. Listened to ‘100 Year Hall’ this morning which is a live album recorded in Frankfurt, Germany 1972, and was not feeling any sparks. Guess I need to be in the right frame of mind for the Dead, and the morning commute was apparently not the time or place. Working late this evening in my home studio, however, I put on a vinyl copy of American Beauty and it was magical. So you just never know, but they certainly hit the spot when the timing is right.

Jeff, that clip of Tommy Emmanuel, Annie Sellick & Pat Bergeson was the real deal. A really nice listen.

Dlew919, thanks for the info on the mando masters. Really enjoyed a few clips that I listened to from Sierra Hull…enough to make me look up her touring schedule. Turns out she just had a gig about 1/2 hour from my house recently, so I missed an opportunity. Weird timing eh? I’ll have to keep an eye out for her next time she comes around. Chris Thile is obviously a master, but he is SO good, that I’m not sure I’m even qualified to listen to him.
Not sure if you’ve ever tuned into my incessant plugging of Larkin Poe, in this page, but Rebecca Lovell (who mostly sings and plays electric guitar now in Larkin Poe), used to be in a bluegrass outfit called the Lovell sisters where she mostly played mandolin.

Link above is to the Lovell sisters doing Jimi’s ‘Bleeding Heart’ at the Podunk Bluegrass Festival 2009. Rebecca would have been about 18 years old in this clip. If you don’t want to sit through the entire thing, you can hear her mandolin solo at about 2 minutes 30 seconds. They follow that up with ‘Folsom Prison Blues’. I don’t love the vocal on this one, but the mandolin sounds pretty good to me. And she makes it look so easy, which I’m sure it is not.


Entered at Fri Apr 13 03:10:00 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Listen for the vocal, plus. Little Wing

Oz Noy , at the bitter end. Corey Glover sings it home....Heavy drummers, steve wolf & Rocky Bryant. will Lee on bass, Jerry Z on keys. ...Noy has a weekly slot at the bitter end if he is home...


Entered at Fri Apr 13 02:50:40 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: The Weight

Unrehearsed, mighta been the first time Bonadio ever played the song...All heavy duty cats.the shows are pick up shows.. Anastasia Rene, a NYC native, works a lot, has a day job too, in earlier years was in Broadway shows etc etc. Not an old gal, 50ish. It't not a song Jonny'd perform often, i've never seen it happen. I think this coulda been cause Ana was there...

Oz Noy is a very very heavy duty guitarist. Israeli, came here in his early teens i believe. James Genus- a name jazz bassist.

These are loose but frequently very heavy shows- alot of variance through the night. Usually no cover, no minimum. You never know what's gonna happen or where its gonna go. Often musical heaven...


Entered at Fri Apr 13 01:06:28 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Norm, another top notch player is Jeff Pevar. Spent years with CSN, and C & N, and Crosby alone, also years with Ricki Lee Jones, all sorts of people... He and Danny Kortchmar worked together- sometimes. Both lived in COnnecticut a good long time ( Korthcmars kids are both grown, he's in L.A. again. ). So they did bunch f shows in Connecticut, other places too. there was a club named The P & G near the beacon theater for ages. It was a musciains hang. It closed, reopened on Columbus & w78th, in the basement bar of an apartment building. Great place with great sound. the music room mighta squeezed in 75 peopel like Sardines, maybe only 65. It lasted a couple of years, closed, then some onw else opened as 78 below, lasted another couple years. But what a 4 or 5 year run! A guy named Jonny Rosch had every other Tuesday- a killer player and singer ( you'll hear him on my project) and he always had the bsst of the best with him. i got to see Kortchmar with Jonny twice, Neil Jason on bass both times, Sean Pelton on drums at least once, maybe twice. One time PEvar played half the night with them. we're talking 4 or more hours of music every time ...starting around 9:30 or 10. No cover, tip bucket went around. Most people did the right thing..... another time i saw Pevar come in & playh when Kooch wasn;t there....


Entered at Fri Apr 13 00:46:10 CEST 2018 from (101.191.17.148)

Posted by:

Dlew919

Subject: Kylie

I used to not like Kylie. But 1) I mellowed 2) she treated her breast cancer with dignity and decorum and propriety 3) 30 years later she’s still at the top of her game. That is a very rare achievement. And yes. She’s young. I was born in the same year. I calculate she’s 25 like me ;)


Entered at Thu Apr 12 20:39:58 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Tommy Emmanuel, Annie Sellick, Pat Bergeson Linked... Everyday, Twisted, Route 66

Norm, truthfully, both Mayer & Urban are very well known, very successful, and very wealthy. And have been for quite a while. If you wanna check out some guitar players you MAY not have heard of , there's John Jorgenson. Completely mind blowing in any genre... Was in The Desert Rose Band with chris Hillman, spent years with Elton John, still occassionally i believe, all kinds of names, and is also great enough to play/tour with Tommy Emanuel... And Pat Bergeson and Jack Pearson are two guys with strong Allman Brothers ties that also play/tour with Tommy e=Emanuel. Pat's old lady Annie Sellick, is a helluva singer..... Jorgenson- you never knwo where he shows up..Bergeson used to play with chet atkins too, on guitar & harmonica...

There's better videos to showcase their guitar playing- but this one was fun and shows off somw of Annie's singing..


Entered at Thu Apr 12 18:48:32 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Norm! You're showing our age! Keith Urban was born in 1967 which makes him fifty. Young guy? (Same age as Kylie, so they both look "young" to me)/n We once sat directly behind Nicole Kidman & Keith Urban at a Kenneth Branagh play. They arrived after the lights went down (obviously)and he was wearing a cowboy hat. Fortunately he removed it as the play started thus avoiding a potential altercation. They snogged whenever the lights went down about 2 foot in front of us. She is even better looking in real life.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 17:45:12 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Guitar Pickers

There are styles of younger pickers that leave them to go unnoticed by our generation because of what they play so maybe they are better than noticed.

My point.........Keith Urban , an Australian boy is labeled country so isn't noticed a lot. That is real bullshit. Keith's work for example with John Mayer is class! Those two boys work off each other. They are both good singers and amoung the guitar gods without a doubt. Their work is far from country.

There is a youtube video of Keith playing a medly of tribute to artists who passed in 2017. This clearly shows this young guy's diversity. I am not much of a guitarist.....but I know 'em when I see 'em!!


Entered at Thu Apr 12 17:26:15 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Kylie

OK, this is for the older guys, to bring out your inner Paul McCartney. Kylie on "Dancing" - you'll see the Dolly Parton thought, but 45 seconds in those beats appear. They work on this track. They're on all the others too, sadly.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 17:21:06 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

On Australia, I got Kylie's "Golden" after fulsome reviews saying it brought out her inner Dolly Parton. Excellent songs, spoiled because they start so beautifully, then one minute in the THUMP THUMP THUMP of synthesized beats start. Prog rock used to do much the same … a quite intro with acoustic guitar or flute until you hit the chorus and stereo drum effects right around the kit are instantly followed by howling lead guitar.

Phew. Kylie is FIFTY. Can't believe it. Like so many men of my generation, I could sympathize with Sir Paul McCartney hugging her just a little too long to be polite after their duet on Jools Holland's New Year's Eve show a few years back.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 17:14:25 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The UK, the USA and Australia all got openly and brazenly shafted over those World Cup applications. And it goes to Qatar, which has never played in one, has no stadiums (until they started building them, killing lots of semi slave labourers). The bribery was colossal and everyone involved knew it. ALL footballing nations would be best to withdraw from 2022 and from FIFA and start again. Might as well bring that forward four years.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 16:26:29 CEST 2018 from (101.191.17.148)

Posted by:

dlew919

Subject: Corruption in Soccer

Australia famously paid 20 million dollars in tax payers money in 'gifts and sundries' to get one vote, to watch the soccer world cup go to a country that forbids alcohol and is too hot to play most days of the year... You'd think NSW and QLD practices would have seen a much more competent attempt...


Entered at Thu Apr 12 16:02:38 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete -- As you should well know, the word "sound" means a whole lot of different things regarding songs & / or recordings.. When we have a spare year we can discuss it.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 15:54:37 CEST 2018 from (101.191.17.148)

Posted by:

dlew919

Subject: Todd: Sarah Jarosz

She's pretty decent on the mandolin ;) In fact, top notch player. You might also like Sierra Hull, who I think is the future. The present - as in the absolute state of the art playing - is Chris Thile. (I play mandolin, and love the instrument to death... I'll stop before I get started...)


Entered at Thu Apr 12 15:45:17 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Don Henley

I didn’t for a moment think Don Henley “had to” give anyone writing co-credits. However, some songwriters like to have a foil or catalyst to work with, and looking at Don Henley’s long list from early Eagles on, he rarely if ever writes with a single “Don Henley” credit. My assumption was that he worked closely with each producer from the early stages, so brought them in. Not only does he have a distinctive voice, but there seems an ongoing “Don Henley” sound to me. Not as strong as say Elton John, where you know it’s his right away, but nevertheless “Don Henley.” Though The End of The Innocence DOES sound like Bruce Hornsby who co-wrote it.

Cass County is definitely worth a listen.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 15:26:12 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, you got to be kidding about Henley maybe giving Kortchmar songwriting credits... Kortchmar has been writing songs since the mid 60s.Before Henley ever did. The thought of Henley having to give or Kortchmar accepting writing credits if he didn't cowrite is preposterous. Ask Carole King or James Taylor what the cornerstones of their early solo successes were and they'll both tell you Kortchmar was a cornerstone.

The sound of a record is the producer's realm. When the producer is interviewing /selecting engineers, or talking to the engineer he knows he wants to use, one of the most important things, if not the most, to discuss is what he or she wants the record to sound like. The sound is determined by the producer. The artist may have alot of input into that, or may not. It is something the producer and the artists should discuss before hand, but it might be as simple as the producer saying two sentences, or playng one or two songs, and it's over and done with between them, to the artists comfort & satisfaction. (then there are or were cases where the label chooses or chose the producer , and the artist(s) really has nothing to say about the sound. that would certainly not have been the case with Henley by tthe time he go to solo records.)

I tihnk The only two big songs Kortchamr co wrote with Henley were Dirty Laundry & New York Minute, there may have been one or two more BIG ones,... The more magnificent Henley songs, like Boys Of summer & End of the Innocence, he did not take part int he writing. but Kortchjamr did have four songs he wrote alone on those first two Henley records. All She Wants To Do Is Dance was memorable, and i tihnk a hit of sorts.. It certainly got a lot of airplay.... He Had 7 cowrites on Building the PErfect Beast, 6 cowrites on End Of The Innocence, 6 cowrite on I Can't Stand Still.. that's 19 cowrites and 4 solitary songwrites-23 otu of 32 songs..... And those first three solo records were the big ones & what defined the Don Henley solo sound, the sound people think of when they think of Henley solo....... It;s pretty safe to say that Kortchmar was very very responsible for the sound associated with solo Henley. The first Lynch/ Henley produced album did nt get great reviews- ive neevr heard it. I also never heard Cass County, which was well received....so i have no opinion on them... some of those Henley songs mentioned are clearly great songs- I'm just not that big a fan to have em and ptu tme on int he car or at home..... They were fine to hear onthe radio when they popped up, and still are, but, if i;m choosing what i 'm listening to, it;s very different...


Entered at Thu Apr 12 14:42:29 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Football & politics

But seriously … and politically. You can’t win by playing the “I can kill more of yours than you can kill of mine.” That’s Assad’s game, and Putin’s and Trump’s. Change the playing field altogether. What I would do right now is withdraw the England team from the World Cup and hope that others followed. A few years back the news was that just FIVE countries represented 90% of World Cup TV revenue … UK, Spain, Italy, Germany, France.

We know that Russia 2018 was pure corruption, and that Qatar 2022 is both ridiculous and brazenly bribe-bought. It also screws up the entire world football calendar. OK, if we withdraw, we get chucked out of FIFA. Fine, it’s a corrupt organization. Start a new one with the main contributing five. Have a shared venue across Europe for 2022. The rest will have to follow the TV money, but as you’d start from scratch, you’d have a preliminary contest for the really tiny nations like Andorra, San Marino, Malta etc with just one going through. Too many qualifying rounds rely on Team A scoring 13 against Andorra, but Team B only scoring 12 against Andorra.

As every one of the “big 5” TV contributors has sufficient major stadiums, set up a contest this summer instead. The USA and Italy are not in the World Cup anyway. Invite both. Add Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Ireland. Take the TV revenue.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 14:24:27 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Thanks Haso. On Satchmo as Louiee, Johnny Carson v Gerry Mulligan sums it up!

Also Todd’s comments on the Grateful Dead were great. I spoke to an old girlfriend from 1970, and Uncle John’s Band is STILL her all-time favourite song. Workingman’s Dead in 1970 and American Beauty in 1971 are very much part of the attics of my life, too. OK, and the Live Dead “Dark Star.” I have quite a lot of later Grateful Dead albums, but I can find fault with most of them in spite of sublime patches. I’m not even crazy about Europe 72.

Don Henley – the importance of Danny Kortchmar amongst his collaborators is at one period only, though he collaborated on some of the best ones. Of course there’s Glen Frey, Tim Schmidt, Randy Meisner, He tends to co-write with producers (or give producers credits). Stan Lynch right through Inside Job and still there on Cass County. But co-writers include Jai L. Winding, Mike Campbell, Benmont Tench, J.D. Souther, Bruce Hornsby, John Corey and more. Three quite often.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 12:24:47 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, truth is Twitler is in cahoots with Putin on this one... He's telegraphed everything right over TV in plain English...... They're working out how to hand the U.S. over to Vlady, keeping the casualties to Americans under a million or two. Arabs, well, they figure they're expendable,and Vlad isn't too worried about his own people, he figures the cost is worth the gain...


Entered at Thu Apr 12 12:20:27 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Haso, I've always thought Weir an excellent guitarist. uncommon, but uncommonly excellent- perfect to play with Jerry, Lesh, etc etc.... And when he could sing i loved his voice... (jerry's too, & Lesh, when he could almost sing, was good on harmonies with them) And Lesh is outasite, just amazing ....For a fleeting second i questioned if i should go to those Radio City shows. And that's all. Weir hasn't sung decently in probably over 15 years.Maybe 20. HE's been growlin and screamin at the audience for a long time.....Lesh wasn't really a singer when he could sing- he was good on harmony withthem, that's it.... Musically, they're gods. Vocally, fuck me if i'm gonna pay to be tortured. Okay, every one ages, but there are plenty of great singers they could hire. And who knows what happens as a result...There's no reason these guys should be goin out, getting big bucks, and insulting people's intelligence and ears. The people who go to the shows are as much to blame....

I have friends who flew to the Dead & Co shows in Chicago a year or two ago, and go see them whenever they are in NY or anywhere else, - i can't keep up, maybe there were LA shows? wherever there are shows they go. They say some nights are great, some just really good. i watched some you tubes of some of the Mayer included shows- the band sounded great, Mayer sometiems better than other times..... But, it was nothing i could get excited about..... it wasn;t up to the past work...OF course, you tube is you tube, and 5 or 10 minutes isn't a show. And one show isn't a tour.... sut, without real singers these fuckers should just not get on stage.

When i read your question to me i googled--i didn't know Anastasio showed up at radio city. So i started to watch The Wheel and their voices sucked. i shut it off pretty quickly...

So, if Lesh looked liked he was having a good time- well, they were getting paid big bucks to play- do what they love to do- even if they aint deliverin the goods properly. Of course he was having a good time..

Cynical? Perhaps. but, i really think these guys should face reality and get real singers, do the real work of breaking people in to their performances or stay the fuck home.. Fuck em. \

I have them doing the Wheel on again the last 5 minutes while i;m typing--- Right now they;re screaming away in the last couple of minutes. Oy Vey Es Fucking Mir- some one should put them out of their misery. - And You Tube just wen tto eyes Of The World, Anastasio singing-- I'm over three minutes in- it's sad....

Seriously singers,the first one that comes to mind who would be perfect for The Dead- and is a big DeadHead- is Catherine Russell, A glorious voice forever....But there are some nay real singers, in their 30s to 60s that would transform the band...OF course, this would mean things like rehearsals, etc etc Real work, which they haven't done in forfuckingever. Teresa Williams of course, would be great on some songs too.... there's guys like Eric Lindell, who is pretty good singer, a little lighter weight, but he can sing- there's singers all over the place....there's a good amount of blues singers in their sixties that could sing these songs beautifully..

BTW, i haven't gone to see Jorma or Tuna in ten to thirteen years - cause of the pain of listening to the vocals. Jorma & Jack both are friggin amazing players. But ti;s years since i coudl listen to Jorma sing... Again- hire real fucking singers. I have friends who go almost every night Tuna plays anywhere NYC. I think they're nuts...

Jack Straw is starting now, fuck me, i shoulda went back to sleep instead of looking in here. Now I'm awake. God, Bobby sounds horrible........

Talk about Con Merchants.... the only thing that could make this worse is if they start doing The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down and sing Pete's lyrics. Norm, i'd go shoot em with ya.. Close to 5 minutes in- Why do these guys think this is okay?


Entered at Thu Apr 12 10:18:17 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The world is a scary place with stupid and aggressive bastards in charge of both the USA and Russia. What really pisses me off this morning is Theresa May's dumb "I wanna be like Thatcher & Blair and get in on the mayhem." She should study instead the great Harold Wilson who totally refused to be drawn into Vietnam, or the Nigeria-Biafra conflict, knowing that you cannot stick your head into a vicious dog fight and come out unscathed. Mr Wilson presided over the most fun five years in the British 20th century too.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 07:53:54 CEST 2018 from (32.216.253.93)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: Sarah Jarosz

Anyone familiar with Sarah Jarosz? Link has her doing cover of Tom Waits 'Come On Up To The House'. Nice voice and pretty good on the mandolin.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 07:28:41 CEST 2018 from (32.216.253.93)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: Sugar Magnolia - Ollabelle & Jim Lauderdale

The link above has one of my favorite live cover versions of 'Sugar Magnolia'. Jim Lauderdale channeling Van Morrison, The great David Mansfield on guitar, and the lovely Catherine Russell (whose father was a bandleader for Loooeee Armstrong at one point) filling in for Amy, who was busy having babies at that time.

Check it out, it's a fun one!


Entered at Thu Apr 12 06:57:45 CEST 2018 from (32.216.253.93)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Jerry Garcia

My appreciation of the Grateful Dead is something that I’ve never fully processed. I was never what anyone would consider a Deadhead by any stretch off the imagination, but a quick count at my CD shelf shows at least 20 Grateful Dead CD’s, and a least 1/2 dozen on vinyl, so there must be something there that kept me buying their material over the years.

They were fairly popular when I was in high school and college in the 1980’s, but I never gave them a proper chance from the beginning. By then, the scene surrounding the group was more about the scene, than the music, which turned me off a little, and I suppose I always rated them somewhat below my usual favorites such as The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, Dylan, The Band etc. As far as guitarists go, Eric Clapton was the center of the universe at that time to me, and I didn’t consider Jerry Garcia in the same way. I was also listening to a lot of Blues in those days, would see people like James Cotton, BB King, Buddy Guy, whenever I had a chance, as that music really felt right to me.

So to me the Dead were more of a sideshow at that time. It probably didn’t help that most of the Dead’s music that I heard at that time were from some of my Deadhead friends at parties, and it was always a tape of a tape of a tape of a jam from a live show recorded from a distance in the audience. It was cool for a little while, but hours of it became a drag, and the marginal audio quality was a tough listen for me. I didn’t like ‘Space’ or ‘Drums’ or endless jams. However, there were a few moments, over the years, where I became more open to the Dead, and began to appreciate them more.

The first spark involved a girl (there’s always a girl, right) who went to my high school. I didn’t know her well, as we were in different grades and classes, but one sunny day in early summer I was at a party in a friend’s backyard. ‘Sugar Magnolia’ was playing, and this particular girl, who was very beautiful, was dancing and twirling to the music, backlit by the sun, and as our paths crossed she smiled at me, and conveyed such a warmth, joy, and friendliness, that I’ve associated with that song since that day. It was quite innocent. There was never any more to it than that, no hookup, or relationship, or even attempt at one, but the kindness that she showed in that one smile flipped a switch in me that made me want to find out more about this music and the joy that it gave her.

When I heard the Europe 72 album, I was more receptive to their sound, and I really appreciated what they were doing. ‘Cumberland Blues’, ‘China Cat Sunflower’, ‘Brown Eyed Woman’ to list just a few of their songs that have stood the test of time, and still bring me joy.

In the late 1980’s I saw them for the first and only time, but it was a good show, and I’m glad that I got to experience them live. Another time, a few years later, I stopped into a music store on a lunch break from work, and there was this amazing acoustic guitar and mandolin music coming from the store’s sound system. Once the singing started, I recognized Jerry’s voice singing ‘The Thrill is Gone’. It was the Jerry Garcia & David Grisman album that came out around 1991. Really opened my ears to a side of Jerry that I hadn’t previously been familiar with.

A while back, I watched the documentary on The Grateful Dead called ‘Long Strange Trip’. It filled in a lot of the gaps in knowledge that I had about the early days of the group. I came out of that with more of an appreciation of what a thoughtful guy Jerry Garcia was in regards to what he was doing musically. I also came away with a bigger appreciation of how talented of a musician he truly was. While I’ll never qualify for Deadhead status, my opinion now, is that Jerry is one of the great musicians of the 20th century, and is at the level of folks like Miles Davis and John Coltrane. You can’t even really compare him with other guitarists as he somehow went beyond the guitar.

Do I love everything that he (and the Dead) ever did? No. But when he (and they) were in the zone and creating sounds for which there was no blueprint, it was an experience to behold. And as a value adder, he’s actually one of my favorite singers, with phrasing almost as good as Dylan’s. So I’m thankful that that lovely girl smiled at me some 30 plus years ago now, and helped me to open my ears to some beautiful music.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 06:20:28 CEST 2018 from (71.234.142.242)

Posted by:

haso

Location: Seacoast NH

Subject: the dead

Jeff: have you caught any of those you tubes of recent vintage w/ Lesh, Weir and Trey Anastasio? Mostly acoustic. If so, what'd you think? The look on Phil Lesh's face for the most, suggests he really enjoyed himself. Outside of that, yes, from my limited stance, you are right on... anybody can only be about as good as Duane and Jerry.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 06:11:32 CEST 2018 from (71.234.142.242)

Posted by:

haso

Location: Seacoast NH

Subject: back to how things are said

Peter: I need to listen more to the originals, I guess (Brown Album, etc., like, I think I thought it was "Richmond it fell"), but anyway... I lived in St. Louis and environs for 9 years, including all of high school w/in the city limits; I don't believe ever hearing it seriously called anything but St. Lewis. And I always thought Looie Armstrong was more how Johnny Carson might say it than, oh perhaps Gerry Mulligan or somebody like that.

I'm w/ you, Norm, on the crescent city. One of my best friends in college was from Chalmette, LA and he for sure explained that anybody in the know would say N'alins, Loo-zeeanna. However on potatoes, you'll have to sail one of them boats around east and visit us in New Hampster. Hash browns are always shredded before frying up on the grill, home fries are always chunks of potato or, occasionally, full cross slices of potato. Full slices in a cast iron pan on a wood fire, while camping is to die for. Of course, you have to keep moving the cast iron as the wood under it collapses into the fire. Time was, you'd hardly ever see hash browns on a menu in the 3 northern N. E. states. Must be that civilizin' influence from Jeff and his city folk brethren, as it's a little more common now to be given a choice between 'em. But then if you ask for "greek", you'll get onions or onions and green peppers mixed in to your home fries.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 06:04:15 CEST 2018 from (107.77.97.109)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Larry Campbell

Speaking of guitar slingers. I wasn’t really aware of LC until we went to a 2009 Ramble. He was astonishing, no matter the style of music or which stringed instrument he picked up. Try his take on The House Carpenter from his album Rooftops.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 01:33:21 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Bob- "This kind of explains why we don't agree on any music. "..Kinda dramatic, no? . "any music"? Really?


Entered at Thu Apr 12 01:27:04 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Bob- why do we have to like all the same music.? But- Honestly - your comment was so offhand & unspecific i don;t even know which post of mine you are responding to.

You did ignore that I wrote:, "There's tons of em.... a Gazillion" and later had a .... to indicate gazillions more... my last list of popular hits i liked could go on for days.... And the list of artists thst are great & more important than Mac & Petty but unknown compared to them was also marked incomplete.... .Zevon was great - but to me Poco & Burritos far better..... Nyro was brilliant & important. But i really don't get where your list comes in....

taste is taste. Mine is mine & what i was discussing. Yours is yours an you're entitled to it. Everyone is entitled to their own, which i believe is also something i discussed.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 01:04:59 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Jeff, you forgot Laura Nyro, New York Dolls, Warren Zevon, Garland Jeffreys, The Waterboys, Tom Pacheco, Michael McDermott, James Maddock. Oh wait..... This kind of explains why we don't agree on any music.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 00:52:35 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete- Did anyone write that Rumors sold so well because it was a fluke or accident? I dont think so. ..My opinion was pretty clear- great pop rock songs. Just not my taste...but- if you want to be totally honest about why it sold well- don't forget to include that Fleetwoopd Mac was promoted like crazy since even before Buckingham and Nicks joined. So they had the product and the backing....

You can have the product- if you dont have the backing, forget it.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 00:27:30 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The way I see it, both Neil Finn and Mike Campbell could do interesting stuff, if Fleetwood Mac said ‘let’s do an album with you guys, then tour it, plus the hits.’ But I read it that they’re joining a greatest hits tour because they can sing and play, rather than write and produce. I may be wrong and a collaborative album might emerge from it. More likely another live hits album though.

Rumors sold like it did because it’s an album with great songs and forceful playing. It is not an accident nor a fluke.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 00:24:26 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

What you think sounds like Don Henley songs really aren't- they sound like Danny Kortchmar produced & also mostly co written by Korchtmar- for Henley songs...there's even SOME resemblance SOMETIMES, songwise and soundwise to the last works Kortchmar collaborated on writing and production wise for JAckson browne,,check the recordings credits... Kortchamr was the man behind Henley and without Kortchmar , he dropped, till that last one...


Entered at Thu Apr 12 00:19:06 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I'll keep going- no album by Petty & The Heartbreakers or Fleetwood Mac comes near Wake Of The Flood by The Dead. But as many Deadheads as there are, the public don;t know Wake OF The Flood, or the songs on it. The public don't even know American Beauty. And Wake Of The Flood is not a well know Dead Album. but it was a masterpiece... Ace, ther first Weir solo album, also, a masterpiece...who knows those songs?

Popularity isn't the issue. i got nothing against it. Its just taste... Poco had a few major hits that were popular- songs that i don;t really like --Crazy Love, Spellbound, Call It Love.... Rusty Young came up with a formual for writing really wimpy pop sogs and they hit... timothy Schmidt had one before he left Poco- Keep On Tryin.. a really sucky song......... Crazy Love drives me up a tree, i really hate the song.... major hit...

Popular hits that i think were great- The Boys Are Back In Town-- the first that comes to mind. Ramblin Man, the second, Layla- the third, Poetyr Man, Phoebe smnio, another, There's tons of em.... a Gazillion by Carole King, Aretha.... smokey Robisnon. the supremes, Dionne Warwick... the Mac & the Hearbreakers--- great songs, as songs, btu just really not my taste. Thoguh i might sing along.....

end of rant.


Entered at Thu Apr 12 00:02:31 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Wanna Feel Sad For Some People?

No one's got to feel sad for anyone. People have different tastes. As stated, I saw a lot of Garcia in the last decade of his life. 85 till i stopped going to Dead Shows, which i couldn;t tell ya if it was 91, 92, 93, or 94. there was a JGB show in the 90s at the Garden that was amazing.....

Fleetwood Mac, Petty, i wouldn't say i ddislike em, i 'd say i just didn't care for em. It';s hard not to like a lot of both of their songs. Some of the songs are great pop rock song. To me, both bands are pop rock bands. but that doesn't mean The Heartbbreakers coudln;t rock hard. they could. So could MAc., not as hard.... They both were great bands, the Heartbreakers more so.... But, just not really my taste.

After he died i think i wrote pretty intelligently about Petty's writing. He knew how to get the common denominators of rock and roll lyrics into a song, minimally. He gets the least possible in, and even at that, it;'s still minimalist lyric writing. Emotion is generally pretty low or laid back, And they came up with catchy basic rock pop tunes. It is definite genius of sorts.

That's my feeling, no one has to agree. but i find basis in it.. I give the Heartbreakers a lot of credit. They accomplished alot. And as Bob pointed out once, milliosn of people loved em. It doesnt mean everyone has to.. Dylan, Harrison, Lynne, ORbison loved Petty's work enough to have him in the Wilbury's. That's a much more important endorsement than my like or dislike...

Petty's voice, to me, it was kinda whining. i love Dylan's voice, and i love Neil Young's voice. Petty's struck me different. Everyone has different taste... The lyrics, as much as i admire his ability to do what he did, to me they generally didn't rwaly come across as meaning much. AMerican Girl, i dig.

To me, no one in Fleetwood Mac or Petty & the Heartbreakers came up with a tune that rivals Bad Weather, And Settlin Down, A Good Feelin To Know, Just For Me Or You, Crazy Eyes, Blue Water, In The Heart Of The Night, or many others by Poco. Or any of a couple of dozen tunes by the Flying burrito Brothers. Neither Poco or the Flying Burrito Brothers are household names. but i could listento either band all day long. To me, that was songwriting. gene Clark- that was songwriting. that you feel.... The Band. that's songwriting that you feel..

AS great examples of pop rock as all those hits by Fleetowod Mac and Tom Petty are, i could live without em all easily.... . Poco and The Flying Burrito Brothers, Gram Parson,- i could listen to all day long.. Magic Sam, Otis Spann, Elmore James. Big Bad Smitty, St Louis jimmy Oden, Tommy bankhead, .....when those people wrote, they wrote....

Anyone Wanna feel sad for any one, i suggest thinking about feeling sad for all the people of age who aren't familiar with the music of Poco, The Burrito Brothers, the Band, OTis Rush, Tommy Bankhead, The Jelly Roll Kings, The Average White Band, Fairport Convention, Ralph McTell, Tom Rush, Magic Sam,, Dillard & Clark, James Carr.... I could keep going for days... To me, they're all alot more important as and to music than The Mac or The Heartbreakers,


Entered at Thu Apr 12 00:00:37 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

… and Roy Orbison. Yes, he's produced a lot and played on a lot. Don Henley has various co-writers but they always end up sounding like Don Henley songs.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 23:31:26 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Peter, you have the Petty classics plus Boys Of Summer and Heart Of The Matter. Those are some pretty pretty good songs.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 22:33:18 CEST 2018 from (100.33.245.182)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: JQ

I apologize for unnecessary harshness in my language.You are correct that the last 10 years in the Dead were not his best.Phil is a master musician,the most unique bass player in rock music-but he revered Jerry’s musical abilities for good reason.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 21:30:19 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: A Southern Accent

I'm surprised at anyone disliking Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers. I love them. The context is Fleetwood Mac though, and Lindsey Buckingham's rating has to be as a producer and songwriter of enormous talent, as well as an interesting and innovative guitarist. However good a sideman is, it is a different area of skill. I don't think you can "replace" someone like Lindsey. You can however get a guitarist who can replicate all his parts with great skill..


Entered at Wed Apr 11 20:52:40 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Sugaree

Jerry doing Sugaree. As beautiful as beautiful can be. Wow, so many on the GB don't love Tom Petty and The Hb's and so many don't love The Grateful Dead. That makes me feel kind of sad for some of you.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 20:30:01 CEST 2018 from (107.77.97.111)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Jerry

Jed - I was strictly referring to Jerry’s playing in the later stages of The Dead live. I know he could play well and there’s many examples of that. I’m with PV about Phil Lesh being the musical superstructure of that outfit. I may be ignorant broadly but I don’t think that applies here.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 19:34:46 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Moneyjuana

Former House Speaker Republican John Boehner heading to the board of a cannabis company. It's da money, honey.. That's what he told his wife.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 19:05:39 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Fab Faux

Peter, great blog on The Bootleg Beatles show. Sounds like a lot of fun.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 19:00:20 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Web: My link

Subject: Morning Dew

Link to The Grateful Dead performing Morning Dew 1977. I can listen to this for hours and hours.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 18:58:47 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Jan, I’m with you apart from Workingman’s Dead and American Beauty, both of which I love. When they played London the first time, just about every British musician of note turned up. After 20 minutes fiddling around, the Grateful Dead still weren’t in tune, and I’m told there was a mass exodus of professional musicians who didn’t have the patience to wait an hour or two for them to get it together. .

It must be a West Coast thing, in both the Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane the outstanding musician was the bass guitarist, and both Phil Lesh and Jack Casady are great in any company. To be honest, I much prefer Jorma to Jerry too. But then I vastly prefer Jefferson Airplane to Grateful Dead. Hmm, the first Hot Tuna album beckons for the evening’s listening, perhaps followed by “Burgers.”

The key listening is “Festival Express” where The Band are so much better than the Dead, though I hesitate to say it, but Janis & Janis’s band actually steal the show.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 18:48:31 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: The Bootleg Beatles

Seeing that repertoire live was a thrill. The originals were the best band of all time after all. I looked at their 2018 tour schedule … no US dates but they are doing Australia quite extensively in September. Definitely a band to catch.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 18:45:19 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Northern Town

Al, congrats and good luck the rest of the way!


Entered at Wed Apr 11 18:44:08 CEST 2018 from (85.164.75.178)

Posted by:

jh

Subject: Grateful Dead

Never been a fan. Terrapin Station is a decent piece of work, but overall I have to agree with JRRs view on Garcia and the boys.

Once, I was in a rental car with two serious Deadheads from Norway, on the road from Newark to Woodstock and the Barn. They tuned into the GD satelite radio station that played nothing but Dead live gigs. After almost an hour of this I tilted seriously, and gave a short lecture on my view on the Dead, spiced with rather strong and filthy adjectives. After which I was *this* close to being kicked out of the car right there on the highway in the middle of nowhere in upstate NY :-)


Entered at Wed Apr 11 17:56:11 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Mazel Tov Al! :-) God loves a happy Scouse.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 17:37:01 CEST 2018 from (67.80.28.221)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I saw the Dead a lot in the earlier mid 70s,maybe ending in 76, then second half of the 80s and in the earlier part of the 90s. I do;t think i ever saw a show that was at least not half great, mostly they were half to wholly brilliant. Including Garcia. I saw maybe a half dozen Garcia shows and never saw one that wasn't fucking amazing.

The Dead went through periods where they sucked live- were just in a different place. I somehow knew to stay away.



Entered at Wed Apr 11 16:43:16 CEST 2018 from (74.203.77.122)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

Peter, I'm jealous. Would love to see a show like that. Send 'em over! :)


Entered at Wed Apr 11 15:40:09 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: The Bootleg Beatles

Apparently all things Liverpudlian are back in the news again. The glory days are back, and also for me last night seeing the Bootleg Beatles (linked). A very full review, and I arrived in the UK at 6.30 a.m. and went to the show that evening. Totally brilliant to see the stuff The Beatles never played live. A five piece "Pepperland Sinfonia" helped.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 13:47:21 CEST 2018 from (101.191.17.148)

Posted by:

dlew919

Subject: Garcia

I'm not rapt in the Dead's electric work, but boy, could they do acoustic. The albums Garcia did with Grisman are just incredible.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 12:55:53 CEST 2018 from (86.131.14.9)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Fuck the music for a Mo [Salah] :-0)

We've conquered all of Europe
We're never gonna stop
From Paris down to Turkey
We've won the fuckin lot

Bob Paisley and Bill Shankly
The Fields of Anfield Road
We are loyal supporters
And we come from Liverpool

Allez, Allez, Allez
Allez, Allez, Allez

WHAT A FUCKING NIGHT!!!

:-0)


Entered at Wed Apr 11 12:40:00 CEST 2018 from (100.33.245.182)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Campbell

A superior guitarist compared to Buckingham.Is he the right fit for the sound of FM? Perhaps.Think a more Peter Green type FM?


Entered at Wed Apr 11 12:37:30 CEST 2018 from (100.33.245.182)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Garcia

If you think he was just noodling all those hours with the Dead or with his JGB or with Grisman you probably have never listened to his body of work or you have zero understanding of the instrument.Or both.Sorry to get all emotionally tied to Garcia but I’m equally tied to understanding music and music theory.Taste is one thing-ignorance is another.Apologies for sounding a bit harsh-nothing personal intended.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 11:16:20 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

dlew919, No, you're right. Good point.


Entered at Wed Apr 11 06:42:12 CEST 2018 from (101.191.17.148)

Posted by:

dlew919

Location: Over here, out on the thin ice...

Subject: Serge

I came in to the GB around the end of the Serge controversy. I still don't quite know what happened - as in, it seemed the people (whom I won't name, but some are still here) said reasonable good discussionable things that you might disagree with, but you might learn something from. I guess I'm one of the younger buffoons who changed the place, no matter how inadvertently or minorly...


Entered at Wed Apr 11 06:21:00 CEST 2018 from (101.191.17.148)

Posted by:

dlew919

Subject: Campbell

Bob f: You're right - he was more than a hired gun with Tom Petty. But it makes sense that he doesn't form 'Mike Campbell and the Heartbreakers' but continues his side work. Of course, he may well be a full member of FM. I certainly didn't mean to disparage him.


Entered at Tue Apr 10 22:30:16 CEST 2018 from (107.77.97.111)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Lindsey Buckingham

Bob F - I’d take a different POV on LB’s guitar playing. I think he’s top notch. He was mentored by John Stewart, both started as banjo players which likely has a lot to do with his finger-picking chops. I believe they both used the same (obscure, I think) guitars. Jerry Garcia?? For his last 10 years all he seemed to manage was noodling around a C chord, over and over and over for hours and hours, just dreadful shite.


Entered at Tue Apr 10 18:53:58 CEST 2018 from (74.12.49.211)

Posted by:

Bill M

dlew: Finn's voice is suited to the departed Buckingham's songs, and I'm sure a tour of that nature would be a nice break. I'd rather hear just him singing (as I did with Crowded House back in the day - and Richard Thompson as opening act), but those days are gone.

From what I gather, the closest I came to seeing Fleetwood Mac was when they played a stadium show in downtown Toronto then didn't get out to the 'burbs fast enough to participate in Ronnie Hawkins' heavenly bar-room jam with Levon, Dr John, Jerry Penfound, King Biscuit Boy, Pat Travers et al.


Entered at Tue Apr 10 18:23:14 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Dlew919, I would think a luxury tour like Fleetwood Mac would be hard to resist. I'm sure the pay is great plus in the last day alone he's received more attention around the music world then he has in years. That has to be good for his back catalog. For a hard working musician like him it's probably going to feel like a holiday.

Mike Campbell played in the same band for 40 years. I'm curious why you would consider him a hired gun. Granted his guitar is responsible for classic songs outside of the Heartbreakers. Boys of Summer and 6th Avenue Heartache come to mind.


Entered at Tue Apr 10 16:52:21 CEST 2018 from (101.191.17.148)

Posted by:

dlew919

Location: standing on the dole line, just behind Buckingham

Subject: Neil Finn

I don't quite understand Neil joining Fleetwood... He's a great songwriter, and has a pretty strong back catalogue - not as big, say, as the Christine McVie, or Stevie Nicks or Lindsey Buckingham... but pretty big. Mike Campbell makes a lot of sense - he'd worked with Stevie and is a hired gun anyway... It's just curious


Entered at Tue Apr 10 15:32:22 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Back in England after just three days / four nights in New York visiting my grandson. Less addled hopefully and more able to think with a keyboard than an iPhone. I arrived 6.30 a.m but have had two hours sleep just now.

Fleetwood Mac. Apart from the great Peter Green, I saw the first versions (and I saw them live) as dull plodders through the blues. Buckingham-Nicks arrival created a new band, and John McVie who I had previously thought boring, was suddenly a bass player with a unique spring to his playing and impeccable timing, while never “showing off.” On stage, Lindsay was a “show off” with his Hendrix (or perhaps Buddy Guy) tricks but very entertaining and extremely good.

But never mention Fleetwood Mac without praising Christine McVie (or Perfect.). Way back with Chicken Shack she was voted best British female singer. The best songs are either her, or Stevie. Rumors is still a wonderful album. I enjoyed the Lindsay-Christine collaboration a few months ago too.


Entered at Tue Apr 10 05:24:03 CEST 2018 from (32.216.225.129)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Fleetwood Mac 1978

1978 was the early days of my record collection, and I owned exactly 4 albums. I was 12 years old at the time, and that was probably all my meager newspaper delivery income could support.

The Beatles - 1967-1970 Blue Album compilation
Neil Young - Harvest
The Rolling Stones - Some Girls
Fleetwood Mac - Rumors.

Looking back I realize that The Beatles, Neil Young, and Stones had more staying power for me, and have gotten more play-time over the years, but in 1978, Fleetwood Mac was hot stuff......and they had Stevie Nicks which was an added attraction for my young self. I also picked up their first album with Buckingham Nicks in the following year or so. 'Monday Morning' and 'Rhiannon' were great tracks, and I still think that 'Landslide' is a great and lovely song. Rumors had 'Dreams' and 'Don't Stop' which were popular, but my favorites from that album were 'Second Hand News' and 'Go your Own Way', which is still one of the great songs from that era.

"If I could, Baby I'd give you my world"....such a great simple lyric, passionate vocal, passionate guitar.

I didn't really keep up with Fleetwood Mac or with Buckingham, but they created a few really great albums together. I think Tusk is the last one that I bought, but you could already sense a bit of a fall off.


Entered at Tue Apr 10 04:50:43 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete might have an identity crisis over this. It'd be pretty funny if he starts talkin all Arkansas & wearing a John Deer hat.


Entered at Tue Apr 10 04:32:58 CEST 2018 from (32.216.224.200)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Casting a net

Yes Peter V, I figured you were teasing about the songwriting thing....or perhaps throwing a bucket of chum off of the stern? ;-)

Because it would be silly to think that TNTDODD would have been as good without Levon's input.

Carry on...


Entered at Tue Apr 10 04:18:06 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Another Take....

Has any one ever bothered to listen to the finger man, Johnny Cash sing, The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. His words are very clear.


Entered at Tue Apr 10 04:08:08 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Monday Morning

People forget how huge Fleetwood Mac was after Buckingham & Nicks replaced Bob Welch. Many of my friends & / or classmates loved them. There's no denying the greatness of the songs on that first record as great pop songs, they just never really were my cup of tea...i used to bitch that Fleetwood Mac & their ilk were lightweight music. And that people who loved em were essentially deaf.....then later i would bitch the same way about Tom Petty.... both were still infectious though, .....Mac's following records were more successful...i remember buckingham always getting the critics credit for production.


Entered at Tue Apr 10 00:45:55 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Bob, you put words in my keyboard that just ain't there. I'm no real fan of Fleetwood Mac past the Peter Green Days. There were some great songs, in their way.... I'm no real fan of Buckingham's music either. But I've heard enough of his own live work , even alone, to put him in a very special category. He's not some one you'd compare with Duane or Jerry. And as far as I'm concerned , neither Allman or Garcia were mere mortal guitarists. For me, it can't get better than Garcia or Duane, only as good. Buckingham is in a different category musically. He is brilliant, in a different way & not necessarily music I'd listen to for long..... Campbell is very great , there's lots of great guitar players. . It would be interesting to see the Dead & Co guys draft him, cause he will blow little Johnnie Mayer back into high school classes.


Entered at Tue Apr 10 00:03:01 CEST 2018 from (24.44.152.49)

Posted by:

Bob F

Jeff, it's amazing how little music we agree on. lol My three favorite American guitarist are Duane Allman, Jerry Garcia and Mike Campbell. Lindsay Buckingham put's me to sleep. The best thing about him will always be Stevie Nicks. Plus Mike is a way better songwriter. Don't worry though he can alway use some of that magic bottle the Heartbreakers had for their success.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 23:47:50 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

It's time for Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow to be used in Burial Plot Commercials and Fleetwood Mac still can't get along.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 23:31:27 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Linguists on call! Why does Yes begin Yesterday?


Entered at Mon Apr 9 23:06:27 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: the Replacements for Buckingham

It's too good to give away. You goptta read it for yourself... If you got to replace him, the choices makes real musical sense . the one guy is a ace gutiarist, but i do not beieve he has the breadth of a Lindsey buckingham, who truly is in a very rare league of virtuosity. Mike is truly great, but, Buckingham is Buckingham. Still, Mike is more than good enough.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 22:58:30 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: This is 2018, is it not? Lindsey Buckingham was fired from Fleetwood Mac . LOL

They're old frigging geezers and still can't get along for one or two last tours..

These people need a good talking to.



Entered at Mon Apr 9 22:48:49 CEST 2018 from (62.251.71.189)

Posted by:

Norbert

Norm,

Yesterday morning (Sunday) I was up early. took the old dog for a walk and to buy some fresh sandwiches for breakfast.

On the way back we stopped at a little bench. I picked up my cell phone and saw your post. I enjoyed to read about your lady, the houses and the boat, etc. there on that little bench in the first warm sun, thanks. Good it all worked out at the end. And you’re right my friend, enjoy every day, do the things you want to do, life’s too short.

Know you’re always welcome in Holland.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 22:45:09 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Mike Cohen.

Linked Cohen probably destroyed as much as he could a long time ago, but, hopefully the Feds find something meaty. They probably have had legal wiretaps on all his phones for a while ....

I'm really wanting to see this prick do time, almost as much as i want to see Kushner and Trump do time. Twitler has belonged behind bards for decades, and Kushner probably for at least a decade or 15 years.

If we can get any of em, Kushner, Twitler, Sessions , McConnell, Ryan, Manafort, Flynn, Ivanka, then I'll Give Pete a pardon .


Entered at Mon Apr 9 22:25:59 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Norm, it's either hash browns or home fries in the U.S. BTW, it's hard to beat or find old fashioned Brooklyn Rican Home Fries. Heavy on the garlic, oil, and paprika. Back in the 80s and early 90s, there was a luncheonetter near my house named Hector's Luncheonette. Hector and his cook were Puerto Ricans born in Puerto Ric but here since they were teenagers. Now this was when i worked hard & fast enough for two guys every day. My helper, Charles the Second, and I would head over there for breakfast most days. Anywhere between 6 & 7;30 AM. Two orders of eggs and potatoes every day for each of us....Back then i could eat like i was going to the electric chair and i ran between 138 and 160 pounds soaking wet. Boy, do we put some food away. Y'know what I'm talking about, having slaved your whole life too. The best thing about it is you can eat anything and it don't stick to your bones & you don't even really ever fill up....

John D. What do you think i am, a history professor?


Entered at Mon Apr 9 21:03:09 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: And then again........

There is so many different places words are pronounced so differently and many things, (foods in cafes n stuff have different names).

My favourite is some people say New Orleens but a lot of the people from down there, "Where you from?" ...N'alins.....love it.

Just about any where I've gone in the states, even Alaska. With breakfast we have hash brown potatoes. In the US they have "home fries".


Entered at Mon Apr 9 21:02:56 CEST 2018 from (83.68.10.60)

Posted by:

Ragtime

Location: Low countries

Subject: Richmond it had fell

As a guestbook veteran I feel like being back in the late 20th century. Back then we discussed "Richmond had fell" and "The Moon struck one"? Will the old "who sang Holy Cow" dispute return as well? (I hope not, since we all know the answer ;-)


Entered at Mon Apr 9 19:37:56 CEST 2018 from (99.227.166.246)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Jeff A

Jeff; who won the war of 1812, by the way?


Entered at Mon Apr 9 17:48:19 CEST 2018 from (98.14.251.145)

Posted by:

Peter V

Makes sense in context of Route 66, that it would be informal version, the confuser is that the slang is more or less the French. The reason ‘it fell’ wandered into my mind was the early screwed up cover ‘a main sttempt - Richmond it fell.’ Mind addled. Hotel. Not Much sleep


Entered at Mon Apr 9 17:32:11 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Throw away the key!

One more time for Pete cause he is addled. St Louis is pronounced St Loois. The Frenchies lost the war of 1812. Louie is pronounced Looie & is slang. St Louie is slang. Anytime it is used it is slang.

See you in thirty days.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 17:22:24 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Nothing but bread and water for Pete

Of course, i never heard nothing but "had". "Richmond had fell." When i got to where you wrote -Richmond it fell- i about choked on my bagel.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 17:18:45 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Solitary

Pete, in the U.S. people spell Louis & Lewis & pronounce both Loois. Louie or Lou are slang. St Louie is slang for St Louis. Which is pronounced St Loois. We ain't in Paris or Paree over here. A croissant is a crawsahnt, not a quasouant. Anytime anyone says St Louie it's cause it's what they feel like saying ( Or they are forcing a rhyme- hardee harr harr). St Louis is normal. St Louie or St Lou is normal but slang if it comes out of your mouth that moment. I lived in St Peters , Mo one year. Some people, if you asked em where they lived, might say I live out in St Pete. But, it's St Peters.

Lock Pete Up! Solitary Confinement for the next thirty days!


Entered at Mon Apr 9 16:33:30 CEST 2018 from (98.14.251.145)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Stung by a snake

Quite right, Roger. I think the Moon Struck One must have stung me. Plus an aversion to had fell instead if had fallen.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 16:02:00 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: What's in a word??

A whole lot! You are absolutely right Roger. When I read that this morning I'm thinking what gawd damn dream world is Peter in now? Is he just trying to get attention? or start another war? Maybe he's bored, BUT HE SURE IN HELL NEEDS HIS HEARING CHECKED!!!


Entered at Mon Apr 9 15:40:02 CEST 2018 from (77.103.81.34)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Birmingham UK

Subject: May 10th

'By May the 10th Richmond it fell' - that would be a dreadful line. I've never heard that. I hear 'By May 10th Richmond had fell'. Ignoring the grammatical transgression it's more fitting and more authentic. I've just relistened to The Last Waltz, Rock of Ages and the Brown album. For sure it's 'Richmond had fell' rather than 'Richmond it fell'. These things can be puzzles but I'm gonna keep sing 'had' rather than 'it'...


Entered at Mon Apr 9 14:39:32 CEST 2018 from (172.254.26.194)

Posted by:

Peter V

It’s a great verse whatever. On the other hand, “By May 10th, Richmond it fell” is definitely forced, which is why so many of us including Joan Baez never sussed it. The recent live ones get it right because they’ve seen it in print. As you know , in poetry, plays, and songs doubling the subject or object is a common way of forcing a line,(Richmond + it). The Moon Struck One is a further culprit, but let’s not go there ;

Todd knew I was only mildly teasing.

St Louis & St Lewis - is it Dan and Daniel? Genuinely interested, not arguing a point at all. Louis Armstrong calls himself Lewis (Hello, Dolly) and knowing it was Lewis was always a marker of those who really knew jazz v casual interest. In songs, I think St Louie rules (St Louis Blues, You Came A Long Way From St Louis, Alan Sherman’s great You Came A Long Way Old King Louis, Route 66). But I have heard St Lewis in formal settings. Jeff, what’s the majority in Missouri? Louis and Lewis are not long and short versions of a name, but French and English versions. Do they co-exist in the city?

P.S. Not only have I co-written songs for English Learners but you try making it fit the line AND keeping the language at the learner level.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 12:52:53 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Well, Tennessee was probably used either for rhyming or because that's where the steamboat was steaming by & fortutiously, it rhymed. But then that wou;d be why Virgil's wife had to say - quick come see. Maybe it just all worked out nice like that.. ..Who the hell ever knows unless they wrote it, or the writer(s) told em and it was believable...

A friend of mine asked me to write a song for her youngest daughter who was having her tonsils removed. I did. No one would ever guess how i found my way in to that song. the same day. By accident. If i ever record it for real for publishing, i'll post the lyrics here. But if some one has an imagination, there's no telling what happens when you're writing a song.

and rhyming... Forcing a rhyme. bullshit. that wasn't no forced rhyme. that " Back with my wife in tennessee......." verse was pretty damn natural....Rhyming might be work sometimes, but that don;t mean it is forcing. Need to make way in a song and rhyme something- if you haven't gotten what you need there's nothing wrong with starting at a, then ab, then ac, and going through the alphabet that slow way till you hit paydirt, or maybe you end up goin a different way anyway....


Entered at Mon Apr 9 12:33:12 CEST 2018 from (47.20.222.67)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Go To Jail. Go Directly To Jail

. You're all a bunch of suckers. Except Pete. Pete, you are the ultimate con merchant. Not only have you gotten away with conning all these other readers for over twenty years, but you've gotten away with making a nice living teaching English world wide...

Here, again in a desperate attempt to prove a non theory theory of Band songwriting nonsense : "But seriously, I take the point on Missouri, but my point was that Tennessee wasn’t just chosen to force a rhyme. While we’re on Missouri, we’re on that vexed question of St Louie or St Lewis. In Britain, jazz afficiandos always say Lewis Armstrong, but just last week BBC Radio 2 announced Wonderful World by Louie Armstrong, which is what I say. Even Chuck Berry sings St Louie and he should know. Was Mark Twain’s “King” Louie or Lewis? Unresolved."

As you well know Pete: Joseph. Joe. Joey. Which is it? Daniel, Dan, Dannny. Is it Louis, Louie, or Lou. Is Lewis only Lewis, or can you call a Lewis by Lew, or Louie. There's St Joseph , Missouri, i got friends that live there. One of my suppliers in St Louis, , had his first warehouse in Kansas City, but he usually said he lived in S.Joe. When i sent visited, and looked it up on the map. it was StJoseph. When i sent his kid a birthday card I addresed it to St. Joseph. Should I have asked him, O' Rourke, do you have two houses, one in St Joseph & another in St Joe.?

Get over yourself man. Tennessee being used for rhyming, if that is why it was, and it likely is, is not forcing a rhyme. You been wearing out keyboards for twenty some odd years. maybe thirty, maybe forty on this type of nonsense, but you KNOW as much now as you did in 1965. Before they started writing the song. No one but Robbie, Levon, and maybe the others know when Tennessee actually entered but i'd bet Norm's last leaky boat it wasn't because of that way too involved theory you came up with. How many songs have you written in all this time? Go write a song Pete, you could have written operas in the time you've spent.To the point, probably no one writes songs the way you think songs get written. They'd be on the first line for five years.

Pete, god bless ya, go to jail. You're a bigger con merchant than even RR. :-)


Entered at Mon Apr 9 07:33:00 CEST 2018 from (32.216.242.101)

Posted by:

Todd

Subject: Typo in my previous subject

It's "The Menzingers"


Entered at Mon Apr 9 07:31:22 CEST 2018 from (32.216.242.101)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: Pop Punk - The Menzigers

I've been meaning to post for a while about this group that I became aware of through the internet. They're called "The Menzingers", and they formed in Scranton, Pennsylvania but are now based out of Philadelphia. They've been slogging it out in a van for 10 years or so building a following, and are at the point now where they occasionally make it to Europe. They have about 4 or 5 largely self produced albums recorded. I think they have a deal with Epitaph records now.

They started as a punk band, but are probably more in the pop punk category now. They remind me of a few different bands depending on the song, but I get a Ramones, Green Day, Replacements vibe, and occasionally a bit of Joe Jackson. It's refreshing, and gives me hope in this age of overproduced music that Rock & Roll is still alive and there are some younger folks plugging away in the trenches.

They may not appeal to everyone here, but I think that Calvin and Kevin J. (wherever he is) might dig them. Anyone else ever heard of them?



Entered at Mon Apr 9 07:15:54 CEST 2018 from (32.216.242.101)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: On the way to the library

Ha, Ha Peter!, I never mentioned anything about songwriting. (I exited that arena about the same time I stopped discussing politics). But one thing I'm pretty sure of, is that it's Levon singing on the original Band track, and I think that Amy would do her best to stay true to the original recording, for the vocal on her tribute version. So not proof of anything, but just another corroborating data point to add to the conversation.

It was interesting to read the discussion about ships vs. boats. Up here in Connecticut, where submarines are made, they are referred to as boats. And once upon a time, I believe that larger airplanes were referred to as ships. I've also heard helicopters referred to as ships.

My father, who is a huge jazz fan, always used "Louie Armstrong" when referring to Satchmo.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 06:11:03 CEST 2018 from (172.254.26.194)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: You came a long way from St Louis

Todd, I thought it was Robbie who wrote it rather than Levon?

But seriously, I take the point on Missouri, but my point was that Tennessee wasn’t just chosen to force a rhyme.

While we’re on Missouri, we’re on that vexed question of St Louie or St Lewis. In Britain, jazz afficiandos always say Lewis Armstrong, but just last week BBC Radio 2 announced Wonderful World by Louie Armstrong, which is what I say. Even Chuck Berry sings St Louie and he should know. Was Mark Twain’s “King” Louie or Lewis? Unresolved.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 04:42:19 CEST 2018 from (32.216.242.101)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Bill M, glad that you liked the Larkin Poe version of 'Ophelia'. I still like the energy of The Band's version, but it's always nice to hear variations on a favorite.

Bonk, happy that you got to see Amy the other night. She really puts her heart and soul into her performances, and I'm thankful that she's carrying on the legacy in her own way. I've noticed that she's been mixing some Hawks tunes into her live shows. 'He Don't Love You (and he'll break your heart)' is one that she's been doing pretty regularly, and I'm pretty sure she did 'The Stones I Throw' when I saw her at the Barn last Fall.

I missed most of the TNTDODD discussion, but I've noticed that when Amy sings it, it sounds like she says "The Robert E. Lee", and presumably she learned it from her Dad, or at least would have taken care to be as faithful to the original as possible.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 01:47:27 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: What's in a Name

The way I hear it is "El Presidenta is now known as "Spanky Bone Spurs". Fitting I guess. Too bad things that should be so serious become a joke.

Got into more heated discussions with some of the Trump faithfuls and gun crazies. Well I shouldn't have an opinion because I'm Canadian.........but. In truth both my Dad's parents, (grandpa & grandma) were born in Washington State. (Skagit County) have a lot a lot of relatives in the US & A. It seems a lot of the time people in the deep south don't realize at all how closely connected we are. I have friends from Texas with the slowest drawl any where older guys who have seen it done it and are the greatest friends with good hearts.


Entered at Mon Apr 9 00:03:53 CEST 2018 from (47.20.223.46)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

On the Twitler front, i may start referring to him as Herr Slumlord.

President Slumlord ahas a ring to it, but i still can;t call him President.

There was 4 alarm fire in Trump Tower yesterday. A tenant in his 60s died, 6 firefighters injured. Twitler never installed sprinklers..When the law was up ratification in the 80s, he fought it, but lost.It went into effect in 83 for new constrcution, not existing structures, unless they were renovated. Twitler rather let people die than install sprinklers...

The big questions is- how did the fire start.- A overheated paper shredder perhaps? Forgot my name, got the finger from Johnny :-) Another old friend....


Entered at Sun Apr 8 23:52:36 CEST 2018 from (47.20.223.46)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Haso, om Missourah and Missouri- you defintiely have a point there ( Pete!). but today it kinda depends. The majority of people who were born in Missouree might say Missourah, but, if they were born to people who moved there from other states, and also grew up in the more civilized parts of St Louis, they might say Missouri. I knew tons of people who said Missouree. It has alot to do with alot of things, like getting out, education, how they identify as people, etc etc \

On that archive void Haso- It;s not so simple. Jan shut down the GB, i think more than once. There were other GBs, Tracy had one, then Norbert took it over. Pete, Pat, and i think even the mad NWC were moderators.... In general the GB was a pretty shitty place. I only stuck around cause i wasn't goin to let Band facts get completely distorted. that said, now that things have calmed down, i truly enjoy the exchange here. Some old internet friends like Pete and Al, the less talkative Mike Nomad some newer ones , like Bob F and you, are fun to interact with. Pretty much everyone these days... I've even come to appreciate New Age Norm. No, I'm not on any medication other than eyedrops... Bob, i actually know a little, and there's others from past GB times...

I'm pretty sure the changing of the tone here has to do with only Garth and RR being alive, and neither being very active. And also to a degree, us aging. Yhere's funny phenomena- for one, Pete and I were often arch enemies on the GB, but were always okay in private emails & i like and respect him, there's others that were arch enemies i can;t say that of. Norm, well, i'll come back to Norm, he's special, got so much salt water in between hsi ears he may get special dispoensation...... .....And then on the subject of people who knew BAnd members and Band facts and Band stuff and not writing about it publicly, I'm not referring to Butch or Serge, there are many people who knew The band well that look in here, have been in here, left, never to return, or only looked in and wouldnt have dreamt of posting here---- well alot of stuff, you just can't discuss in public... But you can with trusted friends, in private, who also know you just cant talk.... Simply out of respect.l. ALot touches on things,,,,,,

I suspect that unless Garth has something up his sleeve( i don't know), when he dies- hopefully not till he's past a hundred - RR and company will launch their largest attempt at rewriting history,. IF the RR camp here is still coherent & embraces it, there will likelt be war.But then again, maybe not. Cause it's a less important argument to me and others at this point. It mighta mattered once, - but it doesn't as much anymore.What i know matters, what i saw and heard, that matters.... I think maybe the change is because music has taken such a downturn in general..... then again, maybe it's more reason for it to matter.

aNother thing Haso- don't believe everything you read in those archives & even occasional comments in recent years by some people. A lot of people that seemed innocent were really bad actors. And some not noticeable gaps in exchanges were deletions.


Entered at Sun Apr 8 22:11:30 CEST 2018 from (69.203.125.109)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

Subject: Re: Amy Helm show

Great story Bonk! That's awesome.


Entered at Sun Apr 8 20:36:07 CEST 2018 from (47.20.223.46)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Bonkers

Mandolin, minus six and Amy sounds like it was the highlight! Good night out Bonk :-)


Entered at Sun Apr 8 20:22:56 CEST 2018 from (99.231.205.207)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Amy Helm

Caught Amy's show in Ajax, Ontario last night. Pretty dam good show. Halfway through the fire alarms went off and we had to get the hell out. Amy grabs her mandolin and we're all standing around freezing. She then starts to entertain us with Atlantic City and I Shall Be Released. Just her and her mandolin and it's like minus 6. Awesome and it was a false alarm in the church. In her last set she pulled out an old gem by Richard. You Don't Know Me. And closed with the Weight. Fun night!


Entered at Sun Apr 8 18:04:56 CEST 2018 from (72.139.199.198)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: please darken my door

Todd: Thanks for the link to the Larkin Poe "Ophelia", which I prefer to the Band's. Partly the simplicity, but mostly the singing.


Entered at Sun Apr 8 07:51:27 CEST 2018 from (32.216.230.2)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: OK One More

If you have 67 seconds to spare, check out Larkin Poe doing 'Sometime' by Bessie Jones. Reminds me a bit of the type of thung that Ollabelle used to do in their early days.


Entered at Sun Apr 8 07:17:25 CEST 2018 from (32.216.230.2)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: The Blues

The girls from Larkin Poe have been increasingly veering more and more into the Blues with some of their recent choices. While I think it's definitely a challenge for two young white girls to authentically pull off music that was traditionally done by older black men, I think they have the chops and the attitude to play in that space and put their own stamp on it. It probably doesn't hurt that they're from the South.

Link above is their take on Skip James 'Hard Times Killing Floor Blues'. Not too shabby...


Entered at Sun Apr 8 07:04:56 CEST 2018 from (32.216.230.2)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Slide

Haso, yes of course you're right. I suppose I used the term slide somewhat loosely. Maybe something like lap steel would be more accurate. Back in their bluegrass days as the Lovell sisters, Megan played a dobro in the horizontal position, so I'd guess the electric Rickenbacker version she is playing now is an extension of that.

But yes, def different than what Duane or Bonnie would do with a slide on a traditional guitar.


Entered at Sun Apr 8 06:03:48 CEST 2018 from (71.234.142.242)

Posted by:

haso

Location: Seacoast NH

Subject: pronunciation and history

Some interesting history from you folks lately. As I told Norm, via e-mail, I got no horse in the Robert E. Lee question. Jeez, and my wife thinks I can get lost in the weeds... good thing she stays outa the gb. That said, this gentleman, Serge sounds like a pretty hard case. Jan, is that the sort of thing that puts the 2002 to '08 gap in the archives? I guess perhaps some of BEG's concerns about being bashed up (figuratively) is how that sort of thing went about. Yes, Al, nicely re-said to give this gb an air of calm.

Anyway, my only niggling comment to Peter (we'd call you "the commissioner", if this was a baseball website/blog) is on the ee's in the states you mentioned. I always go w/ local pronunciations, and I'll bet Jeff A. would confirm that a native of Missouri always ends that name w/ an "uh", not any kind of "e". Anyway, that's just to pull your chain a little; no, I've got no idea how they said it in 1866 or if the infernal paddle wheeler in question ever made it up the big Muddy, along the westerly shore, nor whether Missourians cared as much as Virgil might have, boat or general, either one.

Nice links on Larkin Poe and Jeff's to Cornell Dupree. But if we're to be niggling: Todd, I'd argue that Meghan's playing an electric dobro, ala Jackson Browne's sideman D. Lindley as opposed to Derek Trucks, Duane, Bonnie Raitt or Lowell George. Not to say it's out of line, 'cause her playing really fits that song. I always wanted to actually hear Richard's playing on the soundstage version from TLW w/ the Staples. Seemed like it gets drowned out by RR's vintage string deal.

Oh, and Peter and John D.: it's not only us United Stations w/ limited scale abilities... you've no idea how often my daughter in 8 years in Central Am. was assumed by Hondurans and Nicaraguans to know who they knew in Miami or New Orleans, although NH's, oh I don't know 1500 miles north, or better. Not to defend your inquirers, we are pretty numb here in the states. I mean we got Jeff's Twitler, what else need be said.


Entered at Sat Apr 7 22:53:02 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Long Time Friends

Norbert, thank you so much for the letter. So good to hear from you and that life is treating you well.

I guess like us you moved around a little. We had plans of retiring in Powell River. How ever it took much longer than we had planned to sell our tug & barge. Finally got it done tho'. In our little village of Port Alice the pulp mill had shut down so the company was no longer renting our house. We thought about it and I was still working from up the island here so it was a lot of travelling back and forth from Powell River.

We put both houses for sale and we agreed which ever one sold we would then live in the other. We had done a really nice renovation of both houses so we loved them both. The one in Powell River sold in not too long a time and we did well on it so moved back up the island here to Port Alice. It was a good thing Susan and I both like it here and because the mill is closed and the economy is poor here they dropped our property tax so that is next to nothing.

It is about 4 blocks to the marina where I keep my boat. There is a lot of fishing her for every thing. Crabs, prawns, salmon and halibut. I smoke fish a lot. My older brother lives in Port Hardy 45 minutes away, so like you we have it pretty good.

Susan and I are going to make our best effort to travel maybe next June to Europe and England and Scotland. If I'm still above ground then and it works out for us maybe we could have a visit then. I've always been keen to travel those canals a little. :-)


Entered at Sat Apr 7 22:51:25 CEST 2018 from (32.216.246.34)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT
Web: My link

Subject: Honey, you know I'd die for you

The gals from Larkin Poe finally included a Band song in their YouTube repertoire! Would be nice to hear it fleshed out with bass & drums, as it's a little bit of a work in progress, but I appreciate their effort, and as always love their voices. Also, Meghan has a tasty slide solo which is faithful to the original while adding her own flair.

Check it out at the link above.


Entered at Sat Apr 7 21:32:42 CEST 2018 from (62.251.71.189)

Posted by:

Norbert

Jan,

You’re welcome and thanks.

Norm,

Good to see you alive and kicking. In 2007 we moved from a Holland city house to a rural German house with a big garden. From that point the French house lost its attraction for us (rural and big garden) as we got all of that (and better) in Germany. So in 2009 we sold the French house.

In 2016 we almost moved to Switzerland as they offered me as job there. But for different reasons that didn’t happen, so end 2016 we bought a house in Holland again and moved in Jan. 2017.

The house is situated only 300m from the German border, we still love Germany a lot and come there almost every day.

Our new home is built in the year 2000. It is built very well and following the latest isolation regulations, the garden is, however way smaller (but that’s good as it take less time to maintain). The House in Germany was from 1964 and although beautiful and holding a new kitchen and bathroom etc., it remained old and not so well isolated etc. etc. it needed some attention if we would have stayed.

Our current house has more space but the best is; it has also a bathroom and bedroom on the ground floor (we’re getting older too). It is a beautiful home and I guess we’re lucky to live here.

The previous owner had built his ultimate dream house, for him and his wife and kids. He used the best materials etc. etc. … but in the end, when it all was finished and they lived there some time, sadly his wife died. Now his kids went also out of the house so he didn’t want to live there all alone in the big empty house any more. He now has built a smaller version in the next village and he lives there happily.


Entered at Sat Apr 7 09:24:14 CEST 2018 from (84.209.60.178)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

Subject: Robbie and Willie Nelson

We just found out about this 20-year old cameo by Robbie in Wim Wenders’ Willie Nelson docu (see link above). Old news to the rest of you, or?

And, Norb, thanks for all the input on Amster and the Paradiso, great stuff. Just send us an e-mail and we’ll show you the «how-to-post-GB-links» secret :-)


Entered at Sat Apr 7 05:56:31 CEST 2018 from (47.20.223.119)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Cornell Dupree

Lean back in your mind & listen to this. With Tee, Rainey, & Purdie.


Entered at Sat Apr 7 04:45:08 CEST 2018 from (172.254.26.194)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Powderfinger

As I discovered some years ago, discussions on the exact lyrics of Powderfinger, dwarf any arguments on The Night They Drove Old Whisky Dawn.


Entered at Sat Apr 7 00:43:31 CEST 2018 from (98.14.251.145)

Posted by:

Peter v

Truth and wisdom there, Al. It was a great shame that the attitude was ‘i know and none of you lot do.’ It would have been great if he then told us what it was he knew, but he kept it to himself. As you say with the football site, things can aggravate, but you need to appreciate enthusiasm. A 40 year old was telling me about Bournemouth’s great F.A cup run of 60 years ago. Part of me wanted to grumble ‘I saw that as a junior schook kid’ but then he knew whether it was 1958 or 1959, and I couldn’t recall which, and he could name the team, and I could only name half. So ‘I was there’ had its limits. I recalled the euphoria, but not the facts


Entered at Sat Apr 7 00:16:54 CEST 2018 from (64.229.13.251)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: couthness

Al E: Nicely re-said.

Speaking of floating by the house, recall that Neil Young's epic "Powderfinger" has the protagonist calling "Look out mama, there's a white boat coming up the river". Maybe the Robert E Lee, d'ya think? The guys on board were definitely up to no good, though there's no specific mention of chopping or chiselling.


Entered at Fri Apr 6 22:09:50 CEST 2018 from (31.53.147.74)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Hey, Al. I saw you floating past my house roundabout 10 o'clock on Wednesday night singing 'The Night The Drove Old City Down'. Are you down yet?


Entered at Fri Apr 6 20:30:55 CEST 2018 from (86.175.224.146)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: SERGE DANILOFF

Just reading the references to Serge compelled me to dig out an old post I did around 20 years or so ago in response to Serge having a real pop at myself on here because of my uncouth vernacular.

Moi? Uncouth?

Anyroad - for anyone arsed to read it here's the post which may shed some light on Serge and how it used to be on here.

SERGE

My third favourite Michael Stipe moment [after 'Life and how to Live it' and 'Voice of Harold' for any REM buff wishing to swap notes] is 'The Wrong Child' from Green. This haunting ballad is Mr Stipe's heartfelt paen to lonely kids. To hear it wailed in Stipe's unique style is to have your marrow chilled.

Reflecting on dear old Serge's post down below, I was reminded of this beautiful song. More pertinently I was reminded of its poignant tale of the isolation and deprival of the poor kid the song venerates and mourns. This was a kid whose entire life consisted of watching other kids through his window pane indulging in what other kids do. Which is to play and goof around. Only our crippled protaganist could never taste the pleasures of such playing and goofing. All's he could ever do was to watch. And yearn. And to envy, no doubt. To wish that he could be normal like them.

The ending of the song is unbearably sad.

As our poor crippled kid sits watching them, the other children spy him and run across to him. Gathering together below his window, they point at him and laugh at this injured soul as he gazes down upon them. Most likely not setting out to be so cruel but, as is invariably the case with kids whose instincts have not yet been civilised, they are actually being immeasurably so.

Our poor victim's final words reveal him telling himself a truth that in its own way is beyond any physical pain he might ever have had to endure. He realises that these other kids - who over a period of time through his lonely window pane he had come to regard as his friends - are actually laughing at him. His final defiance breaks your heart. 'But it's okay, it's okay', we hear him scream via Michael Stipe's quivering medium.

The way I see this 'Serge' thing is that the fellow clearly has a problem. For reasons I shall now proceed to hazard a guess at - us buffoons tend to do that sort of thing - he has allowed himself to become an outsider on the very Guest Book that I understand he was so instrumental in helping develop. Perhaps into the very thing it is today. It is not anything he has planned. Rather it has simply happened and he now finds himself railing against folks whom he doesn't know from Adam yet whom he despises because he sees them partaking in and enjoying the fruits of HIS labours.

Now, in a way I can empathise with Serge's position. I've mentioned on here before about the Football Forum on which I've posted these past few years. Not a patch on the Guest Book but still it was a fine place to hang out for a 50 year old saddo such as me. The people on there became a little community rather like this one. We'd even meet up before matches and arrange nights out. That sort of thing. Very cosy. Like the folks on here, they were a friendly enough bunch and good company which I'm sure is the case with all you lot.

The thing is, as more and more people found out about our little football community so it irretrievably changed. And, I have to say, for the worse. Those arriving tended to be younger, more impressionable, less - shall we say - sensible and immensely outspoken. There were amongst them - dare I say - a few buffoons, too. What all this meant is that the balance of our cosy little footballing community was upset for all time. So much so that many of the original Forumites, including myself, scarcely bother with the place any more.

That said, the Forum itself still thrives. The difference being that it thrives with a new clientele and a new chemistry. One that serves itself.

These Website places are like that. They're like life itself. They cannot stand still. As Bruce Springsteen laments to his father in 'Independence Day' - 'there's a lot of new people coming round here and they see things in different ways'. It's simply the way it is. Nothing lasts forever.

So Serge, lad, I doubt whether you and me could ever see eye to eye on a great many things. We're clearly steeped in different cultures, different ways. We have completely contrasting criteria. I cuss amongst fellow adults. You don't. I don't think it matters. You do. Point is though, mate, I see little mileage in you sitting there seething every time you disagree with me or others on here with whom you apparently also don't see eye to eye. We cannot live our lives or love The Band in exactly the same way as you do. Nor you in the same way as us. As I see it, ideally, we are not put on this earth to gain the approval of others. Rather to respect them and their views. Certainly not to disrespect them simply because they do not conform with our own perception of what should constitute a code of behaviour.

There are times when I do goof round like a buffoon. Likewise, there are times when I do not. That is me. I think most people on here would admit likewise, though in varying degrees. I'm here and I'm on this Board because I love five guys who in 1968 had a profound effect on me and my personality. Part of my personality is down to those fellows. I'm sure yours too.

We can learn a lot from those searing lyrics of Michael Stipe. His underlying message, I believe, is one of tolerance and friendship and the overwhelming desperation we all have for it. Let us not fall into the trap of those kids who knew no better than to be so cruel.

So Serge, I offer you my hand of friendship. Please come and re-join us - old and Johnny-come-latelys alike. I am sure you must have an awful lot to offer the good and fine people of this Guest Book. The way I see it we should all aim to do justice to something that is so special; something that is in honour of five people who were and are so special. Perhaps, Serge, you could set the ball rolling with sharing with us some of your memories from way back when. This foul-mouthed buffoon for one would love to hear them.


Entered at Fri Apr 6 16:39:44 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Memories

Hey Norbert! Do you still have the farm house in France?


Entered at Fri Apr 6 16:05:23 CEST 2018 from (62.251.71.189)

Posted by:

Norbert

Subject: Paradiso

Jan,

Although I was born in Amsterdam and almost all of my family still lives there I haven’t been there in many years. Paradiso is right in the centre of Amsterdam ‘Het Leidseplein’ is a famous place where many, many, cafés etc. are situated, another, square ‘Het Rembrantsplein’ is nearby.

Besides the usual museums, The Anne Frank House, the boat trips through the canals I personally like the little museum “Onze Lieve Heer Op Solder” (Our Lord in the Attic), a clandestine church from The Middle Ages. address: Oudezijds Voorburgwal 38. Another nice place to visit is “Het Begijnhof", one of the oldest places of Amsterdam. And while you're there eat a 'Broodje Half Om" at a sandwitch store as well as a raw herring on some canal corner.

But what’s more important and maybe the best of Amsterdam; enjoy the locals, their sense of humour or just sit down and watch the beautiful girls walk by.

Great that your son is going to play there. Paradiso is the most famous venue of Holland I think. Artist love if, although, or maybe because, it holds a little stage, the interaction with (very close) the crowed is a great experience they say. Anyway Paradiso is still a holy place, to play there must be like a pilgrim arriving at his destination. The crowed is a little spoiled sometimes, but if he wins them over the Cat will have the best time of his life and a lasting, good luck.

Paradiso used to be a church, in the sixties hippies occupied it and transferred it into a rock temple (so also below).

Back then, when there wasn’t a wheel chair entrance, and a girl in a wheel chair wanted to enter the building, in no time a double row of strong men was built. Hippies with a joint shoulder to shoulder with Hells Angles and within a minute the girl inclusive wheel chair arrived above at the entrance.... the spirit, that spell, the magic, is all still there, as said it remains a sacred place ...

Below Googled info about Paradiso.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“It is housed in a converted former church building that dates from the nineteenth century and that was used until 1965 as the meeting hall for a liberal Dutch religious group known as the "Vrije Gemeente" (Free Congregation).[1] It is located on de Weteringschans, near the Leidseplein, one of the nightlife and tourism centers of the city. The main concert hall in the former church interior has high ceilings and two balcony rings overlooking the stage area, with three large illuminated church windows above the stage. The acoustics are rather echoey, but improvements have been made over the years. In addition to the main concert hall, there are two smaller cafe stages, on an upper floor and in the basement.

Paradiso was squatted by hippies in 1967 who wanted to convert the church to an entertainment and leisure club. The police ended the festivities the same year. In 1968 the city opened Paradiso as a publicly subsidized youth entertainment center. Along with the nearby Melkweg (Milky Way), it soon became synonymous with the hippie counterculture and the rock music of that era. It was one of the first locations in which the use and sale of soft drugs was tolerated. From the mid-1970s, Paradiso became increasingly associated with punk and new wave music, although it continued to program a wide variety of artists. Starting in the late 1980s, raves and themed dance parties became frequent. In recent years, the venue has settled into an eclectic range of programming, which, besides rock, can include lectures, plays, classical music, and crossover artists. Long associated with clouds of tobacco and hashish smoke, Paradiso banned smoking in its public areas (except for a small smoking room) in 2008 in accordance with a nationwide ban on smoking in public venues.

Artists who have recorded or filmed concerts at the Paradiso include The Police, Prince, The Killers, Pink Floyd, David Bowie, The Sex Pistols, The Rolling Stones, Madonna, Amy Winehouse, Nirvana, Joe Jackson, Lady Gaga, Coldplay, Herman Brood, Red Hot Chili Peppers, U2, Pearl Jam, Metallica, Golden Earring[2], Joy Division, Johnny Thunders, Chic, Chris Isaak, Kaizers Orchestra, Duran Duran, Adele, Willie Nelson, Dexter Gordon, Phish, Arcade Fire, Nightwish, Bad Brains, Kayak, Loudness, John Cale, The Cure, Soft Machine, Emilíana Torrini, Jalebee Cartel, Link Wray, Lenny Kravitz, Omar & the Howlers, The Only Ones, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, Electrosexual, Beth Hart, Dayna Kurtz, Dave Matthews, Smoosh, Suzanne Vega, Milow, Fiction Plane, Epica, Editors, Motorpsycho, Pain of Salvation, Deftones, Riverside, Lamb, Live, NITS, Jamiroquai, Live and The Roots.

Glen Matlock played his last gig with the Sex Pistols at Paradiso.

On 23 May 1968, Pink Floyd performed a concert at the club venue containing songs from The Piper at the Gates of Dawn and A Saucerful of Secrets. The recording of Interstellar Overdrive can be found on the compilation album Cre/ation: The Early Years 1967–1972.

On 26–27 May 1995, The Rolling Stones played two semi-acoustic concerts at the Paradiso. Scalped tickets reportedly sold for many thousands of dollars. Recorded tracks from these concerts were released on the Stones' Stripped album later that year. Keith Richards said that the Paradiso concerts were the best live shows the Stones ever did.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

p.s. please give permission to put up a link here, thanks.

Enjoy your stay in Amsterdam.


Entered at Fri Apr 6 14:48:38 CEST 2018 from (98.14.251.145)

Posted by:

Peter v

Real ale is drunk at room temperature like red wine to maximize flavour. Lager and keg beer is drunk chilled like white wine. What is unknown is a frostie but thst is climate.


Entered at Fri Apr 6 14:33:32 CEST 2018 from (47.20.223.119)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I ask Canadians two questions: 1) You must know who The Band was? etc etc 2) Do you have any ancestors that were real Royal Canadian Mounties?

Brits I ask : Do you really drink your beer warm?

Sayonara for now. Gonna go out in the rain, see if it'll make me grow.


Entered at Fri Apr 6 14:13:38 CEST 2018 from (99.227.166.246)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Peter V

Same for Canadians Peter. Whether it's Tennessee, Louisiana; or California; when they find out I'm from Canada, they say, "Oh you must know Bob; from Newfoundland."


Entered at Fri Apr 6 13:59:14 CEST 2018 from (172.254.26.194)

Posted by:

Peter V

He also suffered from the delusion (common in North America) that all British people knew each other, and that I must know Barney Hoskyns. I have never met nor corrresponded with him. But being in America this very day, I know I will have a conversation with SOMEONE later who says ‘Oh, you’re British. I have a cousin named John Clark in Nottingham. Do you know him?”


Entered at Fri Apr 6 13:54:36 CEST 2018 from (172.254.26.194)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: The photos

There was a lot of back and forth over the years, and I recall that he finally said some were by another guy, but fortunately he’d saved them for posterity- I think that was in the GB and not involving me. The beginning of his hatred for me started with reasonable correspondence. He believed Barney Hoskyns and Penguin Books had cheated him out of a small fortune by using them without permission or attribution. I agreed they were remiss, but at that point major publishers paid between £30 and £60 to reproduce photos. It went up when the major agencies started charging by size (I.e. resolution) so a whole page photo was more, then a photo used for the outside front cover would be a lot more, then maybe £400, Unfortunately he believed the pictures were worth many thousands. I then pointed out the probable sales of a non-fiction book on The Band and asked where they would find “thousands” per photo for a block of photo pages in the middle. Anyway, it is wonderful that they were preserved and all credit for doing so, but Barney Hoskyns had not cheated him out of thousands. I said it would be an illustrations assistant at Penguin and if he sent an invoice at the high end of possible, they would simply pay up. If, as he thought, they could be sued, they’d have removed them from the next edition. I can’t remember and am away so can’t check, but normal practice when you print uncredited photos which you don’t know the source (quite common with historical texts) of is to print a disclaimer asking any copyright holder to contact the publisher. Everyone does that.


Entered at Fri Apr 6 04:44:36 CEST 2018 from (64.229.13.251)

Posted by:

Bill M

I picked up the John Lennon "Ikon" comp CD a few weeks ago and have been playing it off and on for the last few days. Cannot get enough of "Instant Karma!" and "Give Peace A Chance", both of which sound even more phenomenal than they did, umm, 45+ years ago. Alan White's work on IK is so Levonian in the odd syncopation but so Blackmorian in the effort to punctuate each line in a different way. Good for Phil Spector for recording it as he did. And hats off to Andre Perry for getting a bedroom full of a motley crowd of casual acquaintances to sound so professional on GPaC. Who are the women singing? I don't hear Yoko, though I suppose she's buried in the mix, and Petula Clark, the only other woman named in the song's Wikipedia entry, can't have done it alone. Whoever they were, they sounded great together.


Entered at Fri Apr 6 03:20:27 CEST 2018 from (47.137.109.237)

Posted by:

Mono Lake Dave

Subject: Have not posted for a long long time

Nice to see some of the old timers still posting. I had a bout of nostalgia today thinking about the live shows I was darn lucky to attend. Pulled out all the albums(vinyl) and got 'em spinning' ! I'll try to post a Levon story from 2001 Barnburners California run(clubs,theatres,and the Redwood Run Biker gig) next time I post. Try to actually add something to the conversation instead of just viewing like I usually do.


Entered at Thu Apr 5 20:43:07 CEST 2018 from (96.49.94.173)

Posted by:

Lisa

I'm sure you're right, Bill.

I just Googled his name, and you can find his obituary and some of his photos of the Band and others with his copyright across them. Also pictures of him with various Band members at different periods in their lives.


Entered at Thu Apr 5 19:51:04 CEST 2018 from (64.229.13.251)

Posted by:

Bill M

Lisa: I wouldn't be surprised if dementia had something to do with Serge's episodic, irrational anger.

FWiW, I'm sure Serge provided some of his own snapshots, but the really good photo that we care about were clearly the work of someone more far more skilled. Mostly he claimed them all, seemingly in an effort to protect his basic claim to be the guy who introduced something that I forget to people whose names may have Bell. But occasionally he denied having made such claims.


Entered at Thu Apr 5 18:54:55 CEST 2018 from (47.20.223.119)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I wasn't going to say anything, but I was also under the strong impression that Serge and Garth were close. It's something i picked up - in real life...I know none of the GB history, or about photographs.I didn't really see Serge in the Gb. I entered during the summer of 2002, Serge appeared very infrequently. i think he was mostly banned by then. I do remember a couple of people making physical threats on the GB in my early days. Don't recall who was involved but they are long gone....


Entered at Thu Apr 5 14:13:53 CEST 2018 from (99.227.166.246)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Serge

Peter V I see that you have written that Serge did not take those photographs; but only owned the negatives. How do you know that for sure? First time I ever heard them. Just curious; as he said he always took them originally; because of his strong friendship; with Garth. Thanks.


Entered at Thu Apr 5 12:53:13 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.206)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Cincinnati forging a way to bring back King Records / Studio

Good story. Now if the average person knew about King Records it could be a great tourist attraction after the project is completed. But by then, the last person who ever heard of King records will be about AARP age. (50- American Association of Retired Persons)


Entered at Thu Apr 5 04:23:01 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Gregg Allman

Pretty much every body I listened to (every one and they's dog sang it), but Gregg Allman sittin playin' his piannie sings "Virgil quick come see there goes (the) Robert E lEE...............:-)


Entered at Thu Apr 5 02:49:47 CEST 2018 from (99.231.205.207)

Posted by:

Bonk

Subject: Amy Helm

Going to see Amy in Ajax, Ontario Saturday night. Should be good.


Entered at Wed Apr 4 23:15:12 CEST 2018 from (96.49.94.173)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Serge

One of the most contentious characters in the archives for sure. I remember he used to get particularly incensed about people "stealing" his photographs. But didn't he mellow, once or twice, only to slip back into character?

He died, you know, a few years ago. If I remember correctly, he developed some sort of dementia - a sad end.


Entered at Wed Apr 4 21:47:16 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

He also implied that he had taken early photos of The Hawks, but on checking it seemed he possessed the negatives of early photos but had not actually taken them.


Entered at Wed Apr 4 20:57:28 CEST 2018 from (83.68.10.60)

Posted by:

Ragtime

Location: Low countries

When I left all unpleasant people were gone... ;-)

Our pal from London Ontario was an intimate friend of Levon, or anyway that's what he claimed. He didn't suffer fools lightly nor quietly, and I was one of those fools. He had been there, you know, way back, as the best friend of the Hawk and The Hawks, and I had not.


Entered at Wed Apr 4 19:20:29 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: 5 tracks

Not albums. I always key in five songs for a 12 minute selection for the exercise bike for my knee (it's next to a very loud hi fi) and I only choose soul. The selection doesn't vary much in ten days from a CDR soul selection I made up. The favoured block of five this week are:

Watermelon Man - Mongo Santamaria

In The Midnight Hour - Little Mac & The Boss Sounds

I Can't Believe What You Say - Ike & Tina Turner

My Girl Sloopy - The Vibrations

Shoo-rah, Shoo-rah - Betty Wright.

Between that and the turmeric, I'm improving.


Entered at Wed Apr 4 03:09:14 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: The Elusive Chi

the acupuncturists office is in a professional apartment in a really old apartmnet building. you walk uo 4 steps to the outside entrance.... Inside it was originally an apartment, and they took the big living room, put in partition walls that don't reach the ceiling,and built three treatment rooms. Pretty much everyone hears every conversation that takes place in the waiting room, the (kitchen )desk area, and in the treatment rooms. Mostly i sleep through everything. occassionally there is a gaggle of loud people that keep or wake me up. The patients run the gamut, chinese, russian, asian, hispanic, chasidim, and native NYers of all ilk.

Today I'm laying on the table, got woke up by a few really loud eastern european women in the waiting room, and pretty soon i hear the acupuncturist talking to another patient.. In a very nice tone, but a classic Brooklyn Jewish chick accent she responds to him: "I'm carrying around healing stones. I'm trying to find my Chi!" The conversation kept on for about 7 or 8 minutes and she was a gem. " And it's so elusive"... Shoulda been filmed...


Entered at Wed Apr 4 00:48:13 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

that shoulda been full acceptance of Jesus- not Jesse- in the Believe Me post. Auto correct musta got me- i saw Jesue- thought i corrected it to Jesus- but i guess auto correct got in the way.


Entered at Wed Apr 4 00:23:15 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Same old - same old

Some where down there yesterday, (I forget which state), a 5 year old boy shot his 7 year old brother in the head and killed him, (our hearts go out to you) but we sure need the guns around "to PROTECT? our family".

South Carolina another white cop shoots a black man. Some one starts shootin' up Youtube.....we need more guns.

On face book where we were having a "very" heated discussion on guns. What I am saying now is the position of one gunzel down there. "Well if we were ever in a position where we couldn't mobilise our military we have enough guns down here to protect ourselves and defeat any foe."

So if a trained military say the Canadian Queens Light Infantry or the Australians trained army, or the Gorkhas attacked there good old boy hillbillies they wouldn't stand a chance. I shudder to think what trained professionals these boys are. I'm sure he actually believes this too.


Entered at Wed Apr 4 00:05:01 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: You Tube Violence

There was a shooting on the San Bruno, California You Tube campus. The shooter was a woman, there may have been another. the woman is dead...that's all i know so far.


Entered at Wed Apr 4 00:02:33 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Fallin In Love SHF

i think i recall him sayin the "hit", Fallin In Love, also had a line or two in it about his relationship with Jesus. anything about stars- or shining bright- or light-..him & God. His wife's in there too. It's an evangelical threesome.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 23:35:20 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Believe Me - Shows to Go Ya - When you are sure you know

Magnificently gorgeous apparent love song by richie furay on the first Souther Hillman Furay recording. Circa 1974. Sure seems like a love song. And when you knew that he and his wife had split up and got back together it more so seems like a love song, a reconciled love song......i haven't listened to this so i dont know how the you tube sounds- if it;s off the vinyl, or a remastered digital which i usually dislike....

Well, maybe 4 or 5 years or 8 ago i read a (recent?) interview richie gave, that explained it was about his full acceptance of Jesse- i likely have the wording wrong, but it was him going full Christian, which was the problem with their marriage in the first place. His wife had, he hadn;t. Now he had. but the song was about him and God, not him and his wife.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 23:08:23 CEST 2018 from (64.229.204.109)

Posted by:

Bill M

No need to retry the Mud vs Blood case. It was decided in the court of GB back in the 20th century that Levon sang 'mlud' (though 'mlood' is to be considered acceptable).

As for Robert E Lee the person, my sense is that he retired nicely post-surrender. So he wouldn't have been running around Tennessee (or anywhere else) later on, helping himself to the best wood. Many former members of the Robert E Lee brigades would have been, though.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 22:57:48 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Dunno about the alternate site. Yes, the one you named was the guy who issued disgustingly detailed threats. Though Butch was extremely unpleasant too.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 21:07:39 CEST 2018 from (107.77.97.90)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Was that Serge?

PV - Is that the early poster to whom you referred? When I first got here he and Butch were among the first I read. Holy fuck, what kind of place is this? It was as if they both held great secrets that nobody could dare ask about or (and especially) weigh-in on with an opinion, both very entitled due to their proximity. They did share some interesting stories though, and mostly, corrections. Maybe not Serge; he was just continually pissed off. As I recall Butch was always happy to talk about The Barn Burners. Does the alternate site still exist?


Entered at Tue Apr 3 20:10:19 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

well hell, Peter, dissect songs all you want- just don't be so sure you aint crazy. That's more like it... Okay- running out.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 20:08:05 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I'm gonna go ask Moses my chinese acupuncturist what Levon was singing- whatever Moses says- that's it!


Entered at Tue Apr 3 20:06:08 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Putting it Mildly!

Hell, all I was gonna do was shoot Peter. I wouldn't bother Karen or any of the rest of the outfit. I got slapped down for that anyway.

It is waaaaay more fun just to josh about things here. That strained attitude that used to be in the air here was never good or any fun. I miss Steve, hell we could have kept this fight going for a whole week.

If you guys haven't seen any if you think of it when you have a moment search on youtube for some tug boat accidents on the rivers. I howl at some of them. There is one where a pretty big river tug gets sucked up against a bridge and slowly gets rolled right under. It pops up the other side with not too much damage.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 20:05:27 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, you are daft...Try singin any of those other states -try getting em in the song any old way....Stick to ESL & all the things you are good at- dissecting song lyrics and being certain against all odds- no- ask the writers what they were doing and then maybe take that with a grain of salt depending on the writer - Dylan knew what he was talkin about with Mr Jones- - ...... And remember, i don't gotta go far to teach your grandson a vintage Brooklyn accent :-)


Entered at Tue Apr 3 19:53:33 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

At least we can laugh about it. In the early days such discussions had a certain poster from London, Ontario sending e-mails threatening me with his Hells Angels pals with graphic descriptions of what they'd do to my family.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 19:51:27 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

You get an "ee" sound at the end with Mississippi, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 19:46:29 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Padded Cell

One more time.

Hastily

Whether the original lyric sheet contained "the Robert E Lee" or didn't, whether it was there, even if it was crossed out, scribbled in, or not, don't matter. What was meant matters. what gets sung changes. Even originally, even original recordings can be in flux that way, in negotiation that way, at vocals.Which means regarding vocals

I'd bet the farm that Robert e Lee was the boat. No way the person.

Dunc, yes- you are likely very a thousand fuckign percent correct- i had written before- but stopped writing the post and deleted it- cause this is fucking ridiculous- that ( the boat) Robert E Lee was likely in the mix before- Tennessee, me & see, probably followed Robert E Leee in the writing. I also wrote that Songs get written a lot of ways and that anyone paying attention to especially RR' s early Band writing knows there is not necessarily any strong direct storyline between verses, parts of verses, etc etc...Very often there's no heavy direct storyline.... It's more general...It;s often not a direct line....Which has always led to my ascertations that trying to pin down so many things & so many solid ways of declaring this is what he was thinking and this is why he went that way -- this this...it had to be this--- is nonsense and impossible. Any one thinking they can recreate the tunnels that they are sure RR went through and turns he made is on a Earl Grey flavored morphine drip. Norm's right, RR is laughing his ass off and jingling his pockets. Ca-ching. BTW, don;t leave out Levon's influence. Both in the writing, but one more time- more importantly in the singing. And the singer has the last word- even in the studio on original recordings. IF it was supposed to be "the", and the music was perfect, and the vocal was more perfect with out a lucid "the". that is how it would go...

For a Confusion answer to the question... ask Garth


Entered at Tue Apr 3 19:06:35 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Fuck.Fuck Fuck. All is lost. Little did i know Al would take my nomination for President of the United States seriously. Poor lost scouse is getting ready for a run at Parliament now. AL, the construction business is 99.9% morally bereft but i had you firm;y in that .1%. But you just moved firmly into Hades quicksand. Say good bye to Al's soul folks....


Entered at Tue Apr 3 18:59:02 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Transcript

We just stopped for a cup of tea.

Mrs V said “Do you remember the night we drove … Why are you twitching? What? No, you can’t go and kick the cat. Why not? Because we haven’t got a cat. Anyway, as I was saying, ‘The night we drove … you’re twitching again. And your eye keeps ticking suddenly. Your face is all red. Anyway, I was saying, do you remember the night we drove home from Blackpool and got stuck in the fog … why did you exhale like that? That’s a very strange grin … it doesn't look quite sane.’


Entered at Tue Apr 3 18:41:27 CEST 2018 from (86.175.224.146)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Definition of the word "futile"

Challenging Pete's take on anything to do with The Band.

:-0)

Unless of course your name is Pat Brennan in which case the playing field does begin to level somewhat!

I speak with much past experience in respect of such questioning of anything either of these esteemed Band scholars ever put forward. In a nutshell - boy do they know their fucking stuff. LOL.

:-0)


Entered at Tue Apr 3 18:12:26 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I like Al's Spaniard In The Works. On the early 70s versions when there is definitely an "uh" around, it sounds more like our than the.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 18:09:49 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Not that I'm obsessed …

I put Jerry Garcia Band in the car for a local errand (double album). Try around 7m 19s. Not a trace of "the" even if they get the verses in the wrong order and several other words wrong. .

I can't hear a sound on the Brown Album … it's more of a tiny pause or hesitation mid-line. It's like when you're doing elocution and you're told to clearly break words rather than elide them. We'll try it when you're in England, Norm!


Entered at Tue Apr 3 17:17:15 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Southern drawl and slang

I listened to the brown album which is on my computer and I listened to youtube, always with head phones, (and my head phones are state of the art). Levon doesn't say a distinct "the". I doubt you would ever hear that come out of his mouth. What it is, Virgil quick come see there goes-ah-Robert E Lee. However it is very obvious what he is saying. You could make the case by listening to many of his vocals in songs where his words are not precise he just don't talk 'at way. There is a long time joke, (and many) about how "good old boys" talk. In Texas a greeting is "howz yer momma-n-'em. The joke was always who is n-em? Which actually means the rest of the family.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 16:41:30 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Rollin' on The River

We listened to a fine and funny talk on the history of Riverboats on the Mississippi cruise. However, at 3 a.m. when Mrs V was worried about the boat catching fire and having to swim through massed alligators and water snakes to the banks, where we might be met by the originals from "Deliverance" chanting "Squeal like a pig" I kind of wished he'd had less to say on how many riverboats burned down to the waterline before sinking.

The Robert E. Lee was named after General Lee, not vice versa. Think about it.

Also did you LISTEN to the Brown Album? Or rely on recall?


Entered at Tue Apr 3 16:15:07 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Wikipedia

Just goes to show you, (who do you believe.) Wikipedia claims that when the Robert E Lee beat the Natchez, the Natchez was the current speed record holder, (which leads you to assume) the Natchez was built first.

Wikipedia also states (the boat was mentioned in a song by the Band) The Night They drove Old Dixie Down. Some interesting (to me) stats. the steam engine's cylinders had a 40" bore and a 10 ft. stroke. It does not give any idea of the horse power produced but that would sure be interesting.

The fire when she met her end was sad. Apparently started in the pantry. There was speculation as to whether it was an accident or not. There are chandeliers from that boat in different places around the south.

This brought me to a thought. I don't know if any of you have ever bothered to search on youtube for any river tug and boat accidents. Some are hilarious and some are hair raising.

I guess one of my dreams, (I missed) would have been to be in the wheel house with John Hartford who was a river pilot going down that river and playing some great old tunes like maybe some Steven Foster.

That movie "Maverick" with all the crazies, Mel Gibson, Johnny Cash, Waylon, Graham Greene and hell there is too many to name. What a HOOT!


Entered at Tue Apr 3 16:05:15 CEST 2018 from (86.175.224.146)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: The real GB returns

Ha ha

Terrific stubbornness all round with a virtuoso performance from P

:-0)

Not wishing for even a solitary moment to throw a spanner in the works but I always heard "There goes OUR Robert E Lee" - as in General Lee belonged in the hearts and minds of every confederate. Then again if OUR is what it is then that could mean either the general himself, a paddle steamer or a fucking billy goat strolling past named robert e lee.

Then again, to temper all this, I have to say that I used to hear "Don't give up we've fought this far" on We Can Talk About It Now until I came on here 20 years ago to find it was really "Don't Give Up on Father Clock". So what would I know. Still think mine's better like but fuck it. If that's what Richard really wanted then it's for sure more than okay by me.

:-0)


Entered at Tue Apr 3 15:53:30 CEST 2018 from (81.159.124.89)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: From the land of continual winter

It's a great post, Peter.

But maybe Robbie chose Tennessee because it rhymes with Robert E Lee.

I love the song.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 15:24:04 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: There goes the Robert E Lee

Forgive me if the history of this steamboat been linked before...


Entered at Tue Apr 3 15:13:58 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: It Don't Wash

A great amount of work, all for naught. She's callin' him to come and see that new side paddle wheeler. I'm gawd damn sure she could care less about some trouble making General who was the cause of most their grief.

I also got this feeling Robbie isn't going to confirm or deny. That rascal just loves all the controversy. Our position is the only sensible one. Case closed! I know what I hear from Levon and he's the only one that counts.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 14:19:27 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Like a dog with a bone

OK, guys. Phew! 22 years into this one. I’m tempted to think Norm sees boats in everything. I’m eternally grateful to Susan for rescuing me from the shotgun. Incidentally, however big it is, if it’s confined to the river, it’s a boat, not a ship. I listened carefully to the talks on the Mississippi blues cruise.

First, did you go and listen and crank up the volume really high or did you rely on memory? I’ve just played the Brown Album version a dozen times on Garage Band amplified through B&W computer speakers at full belt. There’s definitely no “the” or any other vocalisation. I don’t know how to read the wave form, but there is a drop between “goes” and “Robert.” After playing it a dozen times, in 2018 terms it sounds almost like a cut and join, but I’m sure it can’t have been. Just tried Syria 1970. Nothing between GOES and ROBERT, but a low voiced “said” earlier in the line. Nor on Paladium 1976.

My article said:

on some live versions Levon gets pretty close to adding a 'the'. Even as early as Rock of Ages it sounds like: There goes -a Robert E. Lee. The question of whether it's "the" Robert E. Lee (a steamboat, or even an army unit with that name) or the General himself has caused some discussion

The case for a boat is that it was launched in 1866, did speed trials and was a very popular sight along the river.

On the original article, I quote Pat B:

Lee never went to Tennessee after the war. The closest he got was probably Charlotte, NC. However, many people-…especially ex-Confederates…claimed to see him all over the country, just as many ex-slaves claimed to see Lincoln after the war. That sort of public hysteria is common; you know, Elvis in Kalamazoo. Since Levon claimed to point Robbie to some books at a library when the song was forming, perhaps he clued Robbie into the phantom sightings. Or, perhaps, Robbie just thought it would be a cool image, whether it had historical weight or not.

And I quote Bones:

Bones … the fact that Robert E Lee was never in Tennessee after the war doesn't mean that people didn't think they saw him. People in the South after the war constantly thought they saw Lincoln and General Lee, even though they couldn't have, and it would be passed down to generations even though it was historically incorrect

The case against is aural to me, and that the live versions see Levon trying to resolve the scanning, and eventually lighting on SAYS and later SAID … AND, which are not in the original. I think it’s a semi-breath originally.

Then why would Levon want the song to show respect to Robert E. Lee if it were a boat? He wanted to respect a boat? No “the” in his sentence. If I said the QEII was an awful ship, I would not be disrespecting the Queen herself.

Greil Marcus in Mystery Train said “With the war over, a glimpse of Robert E. Lee is worth as much as the memory of his brother.” Greil didn’t think paddle boat.

I’m not going to look it up, but I’m sure the line “Joan Baez turned the General into a Riverboat” didn’t originate with me. And Joan in recent tours, reverts to the exact line on the sheet music. From my review of 2012:

In an old interview she explained she’d learned it from the record, and no lyrics were available, which means she had a decent stab at them. She also says she now sings it as it was written. Well, she did it so well that the remaining hairs stood up on my head with the thrill of hearing it live, so I in fact loved it, BUT she didn’t sing the right words. She corrected “so much cavalry” to “Stoneman’s cavalry” fine, and had ‘Robert E. Lee’ (the general) not ‘The Robert E. Lee” (the paddle boat) . But she retained her “I took a train to Richmond. It fell” instead of “By May 10th Richmond had fell.” In fact, to most listeners not steeped in The Band, I finally will admit that her change makes more sense AND is easier to sing. She also retained her “I’m a working man” in place of the correct “I will work the land” and “the blood beneath my feet” instead of “the mud beneath my feet.” The sheet music has no “the.” But like many here, Joan Baez thought she heard it on the record.

SHEET MUSIC: Back with my wife in Tennessee, when one day she called to me

"Virgil, quick, come see, there goes Robert E Lee"

I think Tennessee was carefully chosen. Slave holding along the river, but single farmers inland. I see Virgil as an independent farmer, so outside the slave holding area. So not on the river. Leave the river to Proud Mary.

Amy Helm in 2015 adds the said, and a hesitation, just like her dad, but I can’t hear THE. Just a breath.

Tanya Tucker does much the same, adding a “Lord” to fill the line, but again we get a light ‘uh’ not any clarity. But Tanya Tucker deserves applause for “sexiest skirt on a singer doing the song.”

The Allmans seem to squeeze in ‘uh’ but then they also have CAME not CALLED. The Black Crowes are much the same.

Carolina Story, like many are There goes-a Robert E. Lee.

Johnny Cash has “Virgil quick come see, Virgil, (repeated) there goes-a Robert E. Lee.” Roger Waters with My Morning Jacket definitely sings “There goes Robert …” without a the. A songwriter, you see, takes care. Lisa Hannigan’s band is the same. The guydefinitely has no sound there.

Blackberry Smoke! God Bless ‘em. They sing the verses in the wrong order, OK, but he sings “There goes …” points to the side and massed voices sing “Robert E. Lee.” No “the.”

In the end people have trouble keeping to the solemn and stately pace without adding words or noises. Try a “z” sound followed by a “rrr” soun. You tend to pause very slightly.

Can anyone ask Sebastian to ask Robbie?


Entered at Tue Apr 3 12:41:59 CEST 2018 from (158.39.165.141)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

Subject: Norbert & Paradiso, Amsterdam

Hei Norbert, guess who's playing at your fav venue in Amsterdam next month? And guess who'll be there to see him? We'll be staying close to the Paradiso, by the Prinsengracht canal. Any pub or restaurant recommendations from a local?


Entered at Tue Apr 3 09:22:53 CEST 2018 from (81.159.124.89)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Great post, Helmut.

It's a wonderful song. I always thought it was a boat.

Amy Helm, Gerry Garcia and The Allman Brothers Band sing 'The'. From time to time, I listen to these versions on YouTube.

But if in doubt, always go back to the definitive version. The mass of female singers on James Last's iconic 'Beach Party 6' sing 'The'. I hope you are aware of this German version Helmut.

Great post, Norbert. It's only Rock n' Roll.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 06:10:46 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Norm! Helmet gets the credit for stirring this nonsense up. Pete's being run, he's just an active measure.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 03:28:31 CEST 2018 from (24.222.133.112)

Posted by:

JOE JENNINGS

Subject: Polar Bears

Not the general nor a regiment. T'was a boat. The question should be 'What kind of boat?' On the Ohio? A troop transport? Steamboat? Barge? Something worth coming out and seeing.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 02:58:17 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Pete's dreamin about this tonight.

Bill, to me the chopping wood don't have nothin to do with a ship or a train. Chopping wood is chopping wood- maybe that's the only kinda work Virg can get.....i do like " the Princess Pats" thing but it wouldn't necessarily matter when song writing..... but, yeah, no way was it a supposed sighting of the general....



Entered at Tue Apr 3 02:04:45 CEST 2018 from (64.229.204.109)

Posted by:

Bill M

Rockin C: I appreciate the compliment. Don't be too hard on yourself old friend!


Entered at Tue Apr 3 01:50:54 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: I won!!!

I made myself a bet and I WON! I said y'know Bill Munson will come along with some explanation that will be right out of Monty Python.....or Mel Brooks. He has some kind of logic that only he knows.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 01:42:09 CEST 2018 from (64.229.204.109)

Posted by:

Bill M

I'm sure there's a 'the' there, but I'm also sure there's no ship. Ships don't chop wood, and it's a they that chops wood, not a he, as if Robert E would have turned up alone with an axe anyway. I hold to my decades-old position that "the Robert E Lee" was short for "the Robert E Lee" army or brigade or regiment or band of lumberjacks. As I said here many years ago, Robbie grew up at a time (the '50s) and in a place (Toronto) where "Princess Patricia's Regiment" was known by all as "the Princess Pat's".


Entered at Tue Apr 3 01:35:17 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: There's no doubt

Peter'll be having an orgasm because he has people talking about the Band no matter what the out come.....:-)


Entered at Tue Apr 3 01:07:11 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Norm, i suspect Pete knows we're correct, but is just keeping this going cause he enjoys seeing you & I on the same side of a bitch. Just don't go getting cozy & trying to kiss me on the lips now Norm, cause 7'2" or not, i'll slug ya.

Mike? - See, i'm doing my best to keep you awake and interested here.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 00:38:39 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Calm down she says

Well I guess that's out........Susan says if I'm going to shoot Peter she isn't coming with me........spoil my fun :-(


Entered at Tue Apr 3 00:31:07 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: A grave!! undertaking

I'm going over to those British Islands next year. I've thought it over carefully......I'm specifically gonna find Peter and shoot him. I can't stand it any more..........


Entered at Tue Apr 3 00:26:02 CEST 2018 from (107.77.97.90)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: 3 Billboards

Martin McDonagh used the Joan Baez version of TNTDODD at an overtly obvious moment. I’ve never been crazy about her version; I’d be in the crowd that think it’s a Levon-only song. He also used 2 versions of Townes’ Buckskin Stallion to better effect I think.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 00:23:20 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I don't know from garage band and don't wan to- but, bumping the volume at that point on the digital masters would reveal it. You'd be surprised what you hear when you can do that . there is sound there. It could be something else too, just a throat sound, but sounds like thuh to me . Vocalists do things for various reasons so if there was no "the", then i'd bet there was a sound.

Part of my point before, and i dont know that i made this clear- Even if he sang Robert E Lee, i'd bet the farm on the ship. Not the person.


Entered at Tue Apr 3 00:22:42 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Peter the phyco

Peter I been watching you do this do-c-do forever. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. The whole idea you have is absurd. You got rocks in yer ears. Crazy gawd damn Englishman!

She wanted him to quick come see THE Robert E Lee steaming by you madman!!!!


Entered at Mon Apr 2 23:54:07 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter v

Last waltz and brown album - no way on either. Check out the added last waltz words. About to go to sleep. Will put it in Garage band tomorrow and check the wave for hesitation or sound- unless someone else wants to do it tonight.


Entered at Mon Apr 2 23:40:54 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, i'm with Norm and dennis on this one.. First of all, When Levon sings in the chorus "the night they drove old Dixie down- he sings "thuh" as you put it. So there goes that argument of yours, that he would sing "thee" for the "the" word sound. Secondly, in the Last Waltz he does sing the Robert E Lee. thirdly, and on the brown album as well.. Also on the outtakes of the Brown album. where it'; actually more noticeable than on the Brown album itself.

When i was a kid, i thought tThe Robert E Lee" was a train.. Later i found out about the ship.

To get this next thing, you almost have to be a songwriter goin in to record your songs with vocalists. Some rare times you're gonna get words or sounds added on ya, some rare times you're gonna get worlds deducted. Sometimes words get sung that you can barely hear.... sometimes you can do somethign about it. the better you are the more rare the occurrence... sometimes you have to even settle for close to what you wanted to use cause you just can;t get exactly what you wanted and you didn;t find another way to write it that you were as happy with.. But, it may really not matter..... sometimes you make adjustments on the spot yourself, sometimes you head it off at the pass and work it out before..... Sometimes it happens on the fly

Get used to the fact that nothing happens exactly the same way ever again.- .. and when it comes to live performance, anything can happen... Also, live, songs get a slightly different musical feel most of the time, and that's gonna hit the vocal a little too....Music is a living organism- Alot of the time, players, singers, are working on the fly... Think abut it like sex too- a little variety with your same partner is a good thing, you want to mix up the rhythms and movements

Norm, Helmut was here once before with some other position that was just as nonsensical about lyrics as his idea that Virgil was throwing hi s wife under the bus , etc etc

another point- if robert e Lee was passing by in person, Virgil and a whole crowd woulda been trying to talk to him., shake his hand,


Entered at Mon Apr 2 23:08:31 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Dennis 1976 Paladium is later. The Last Waltz is "SAID Virgil quick come AND see there goes Robert E. Lee …" So he's still trying to add sounds as neither SAID nor AND is in the original, in this case adding two syllables, not one, but I guess the added horns before changed it. I'd assume that he found the words didn't quite for the beat for him and tried various ways of making it work. But while the hesitation might sound like UH on some boots, I've never heard him do a Joanie and pronounce it in full.

And when I saw Joan Baez a few years ago, she got the words absolutely right. No "So much cavalry" no "THE Robert E. Lee."


Entered at Mon Apr 2 22:59:45 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: the mud or the blood

We have done this before. At 1 minute 12 in the Brown Album version. Check. Levon gives a tiny hesitation but he sings neither THE (thuh) nor THEE (thee) and Levon usually pronounces the definite article as THEE not THUH. I agree entirely that later it sounds as if he does put in tHUH or more likely UH on some live recordings. I have noted before that both Levon and Rick frequently add syllables or words in live versions. I guess it made them easier to scan, but there are many examples.

Without spending ages, I just checked Syria Mosque 1970. If Levon adds anything before Robert E. Lee it might be a "schwa" sound, or a faint uh, but it's probably a slight hesitation rather than a sound. More Like "There goes(uh) Robert …" Do check out Levon on the definite article. Like many Southerners he tends to THEE not THUH when he's trying to put it in. Then I checked Paladium 1976. There's absolutely nothing between GOES and ROBERT, but he is still trying to make it scan better for himself so puts "SAY Virgil quick come see there goes Robert E. Lee …" Adding SAY gives him the extra syllable.

The next thing is to check the Robbie solo piano version on the DVD, but that means a lot of fiddling around.


Entered at Mon Apr 2 22:25:12 CEST 2018 from (67.243.85.96)

Posted by:

Dennis

Location: West Saugerties

Subject: THE Robert E Lee

Just listened to some bootlegs of early shows I had the pleasure to attend, Filmore East, May '69 (early show), Felt Forum in December '69, Queens College in January of 1970, the song wasn't performed at Woodstock.

In all three performances, Levon clearly belts out, "....there goes the Robert E Lee."

That's how it was performed live until it was never performed by Levon again.


Entered at Mon Apr 2 20:36:53 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: WRONG!

Peter! Listen again. On the Brown Album, Levon clearly says "There goes the Robert E Lee. There is a page with many paintings of the ship. Across one very beautiful painting is scrolled those words. "Virgil quick come see, there goes the Robert E Lee.

I would bet any money that is what Robbie meant. Seeing that ship, for a southerner would be the proud remembrance of the Colonel. To make it sound like Virgil's wife is "stupid" sounds really stupid.


Entered at Mon Apr 2 20:28:39 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Check the sheet music

It's on this site:

"Virgil, quick, come see, there goes Robert E. Lee!"


Entered at Mon Apr 2 20:26:53 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: From my article:

Joan Baez had a cover version which was a major hit (US #3). She added one little word - 'the' - which changed the general into the Mississippi steamboat of the same name. This word is neither in the official sheet music nor in the original studio version by The Band. Even worse, 'Stoneman's cavalry' became 'so much cavalry'. To be fair to Baez, on some live versions Levon gets pretty close to adding a 'the'. Even as early as Rock of Ages it sounds like: There goes -a Robert E. Lee.

The question of whether it's "the" Robert E. Lee (a steamboat, or even an army unit with that name) or the General himself has caused some discussion, but I think the quote from Levon's autobiography closes the matter:

Levon Helm

Robbie and I worked on "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" up in Woodstock. I remember taking him to the library so he could research the history and geography of the era and make General Robert E. Lee come out with all due respect.



Entered at Mon Apr 2 19:38:51 CEST 2018 from (62.251.71.189)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Holland

Subject: Paradiso Amsterdam turns 50: concert memories (continued)

Knockout at the Ramones, 12 July 1995

My first concert in the big city. Just 15 years old and together with friends to the Ramones: a better start of my career as concert goer couldn’t be possible.

With five dollar in my pocket for two cola we took the train from Alkmaar to Amsterdam. We couldn’t figure out the right bus from central station to the Paradiso venue, so we just walked all the way, no problem.

The band counted off (one two three four….) and the room seemed to explode…. I never ever had heard such a loud noise. It was a hot summer day, so I went to the tiny bar and ordered a Cola. The glass of cola fell over from the bar before I could grab it.

Without a drink I worked my way up to the front. It was so hot inside the hall that even Joey Ramone took off his leather jacket. I stood right in front of him. He gave me a thumbs-up and I could almost touch his hand.

With only 3 inches between Joey Ramone’s hand and mine suddenly the light went out ….. someone had jumped into the audience and had hit me hard right in the face with his shoe. I just know that I collapsed to the ground behind the soundman of the band. End of concert.

The cola had cost me $ 2.50, the other $2.50 went to a street musician who played Beatles songs in front of Paradiso.

Jeroen Scheppers (38), Amsterdam. [Het Parool, 4-2-2018]


Entered at Mon Apr 2 17:55:18 CEST 2018 from (62.251.71.189)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Holland

Subject: Paradiso turns 50: some concert memories (I translated some stories printed in Het Parool).

Lenny Kravitz cries to 'Let Love Rule'

It is 20 December 1989 and tonight plays a man who has written a song that, all of a sudden, becomes a #1 hit in the Dutch top40. He should actually be playing in the small hall but his song, unexpectedly, becomes such a big hit that he now is allowed to play the big concert Hall.

He has just only got his first cd out, but the Amsterdam crowed sings along many of his songs. He has only, and plays only 10 numbers. At the moment he starts to sing ‘Let Love Rule’, the 1200 people in the room also start to sing this song.

Lenny Kravitz is totally surprised, he hasn’t experienced this before yet. He becomes emotional, stops playing and sits down on edge of the stage, his feet dangling.

The public sings louder and louder, Lenny cries. The other band member come and sit next to him and so we sing for 15 minutes…...

After the concert the audience swarm out over the city.

That night, around the ‘Leidseplein’ and untill the wee hours in the morning, you could hear people sing ‘Let Love Rule’ in the streets of Amsterdam.

Remco Boas (52) [Parool 4-2-2018]


Entered at Mon Apr 2 17:46:54 CEST 2018 from (208.181.205.134)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Lyrics

The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. I don't think Helmut has this right at all. Listen to the song, and then to confirm look at the lyrics as shown on line. "Lyrics of the Band".

Virgil's wife says to him, "quick come see there goes THE Robert E Lee". I believe referring to the newly built steam ship Robert E Lee. Look it up this steamer was famous first of all because she beat the fastest steamer "Natchez". Virgil's wife would be excited to see her.

I believe the Robert E Lee was built in 1866 and named in Lee's honour. As the song goes, "Back with my wife in Tennessee", meaning after the war and the ship was new.


Entered at Mon Apr 2 17:01:13 CEST 2018 from (67.80.25.80)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Other than The Last Waltz, has The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down ever been included in any Civil War movies?


Entered at Mon Apr 2 12:10:33 CEST 2018 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Robert E. Lee

Thank you, Helmut. It's a welcome return to discussing Band songs! Apparently, there were many false sightings of Robert E. Lee after the Civil War, as his status was already mythical.

I do wish people would stop tearing down his statues though. See my attached article which I linked here last year on "Civil Wars & Statues". It got a bit longer as I added to it.


Entered at Mon Apr 2 11:46:36 CEST 2018 from (89.249.64.214)

Posted by:

Helmut Hamm

Location: Berlin, Germany

Subject: The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down

A wonderful analysis of a landmark classic. I only have one small point to add, there is a bit more to this line than meets the eye: Virgil, quick, come see! There goes Robert E. Lee As Greil Marcus has pointed out, the song is not about the real truth, but about Virgil Kane‘s version of the truth. Now history has established that Robert E. Lee was never again in Tennessee after the war. The important point here is, that Virgil never claims to have him seen: His wife called him. We are only getting half of that story here, and for good reason: If f it can be established that Lee had been in his neighorhood that day, he has a story to tell. As it is, Lee was never there, so he couldn‘t have possibly seen him. Which does not make too much of a difference to Virgil, as he can then blame his wife for being stupid, telling everyone he immediately ‚told her so‘. Whatever the real truth is, Virgil has a story to tell. The entire song is about a man who was deeply hurt before, and being called a liar would mean another degradation, something he will avoid at all costs. Virgil is a prime example of an Angry While Male, who couldn‘t care less to disrespect his wife, if it helps him (in his self-perception) to ‚save his face‘.


Entered at Sun Apr 1 22:45:16 CEST 2018 from (67.80.29.137)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Peaceindustrymusicgroup. The Boyd Family +

Here's their story, etc. Detroit to New Jersey, and Central Park.


Entered at Sun Apr 1 22:40:21 CEST 2018 from (67.80.29.137)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Boyd Family, Peace Music Group

The Baritone is her father John, she;s playing guitar and singing, and then she has 5 or 6 brothers and sister in here too. there are some other amazing videos to be found also. This is some musical movement ...


Entered at Sun Apr 1 22:27:17 CEST 2018 from (67.80.29.137)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Victory Boyd

Bridge Over Troubled Water and she is friggin great. What a voice and delivery....NYC native i think, young girl, plenty of you tubes videos, was busker, got signed to JAyZ's lable roc nation.

An old school voice, worthy of great music- the kind of singer you don't run into too often no more. Shes not tryign to do that stoopid modern shit with her voice.....


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