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The Band: Live at the Academy of Music 1971

Levon Helm: Ramble at the Ryman

The Band: Three of a Kind

Robbie Robertson: How to Become Clairvoyant

Garth Hudson Presents a Canadian Celebration of The Band

Levon Helm: Electric Dirt

Garth and Maud Hudson: Live at the Wolf

Pulse

Dirt Farmer

Elliot Landy's Woodstock Vision

The Band Guestbook

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If you are looking for previous entries or posters, try searching the guestbook archives.


Entered at Tue Jan 27 21:53:46 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

The wind it was howlin' and the snow was outrageous...


Entered at Tue Jan 27 20:37:54 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Winterlude

Bob’s has done very well on wind … As well as Idiot Wind, we have Blowing In The Wind, Hurricane. then House of the Risin’ Sun leads us to Red sky at Morning Shepherd’s Warning, a thought repeated in Under The Red Sky.

I bet if you move from titles to lyrics, you could have several dozen in a short time … If you're traveling' the North Country Fair, where the wind hits heavy on the borderline … and Louise holds her hand full of rain …


Entered at Tue Jan 27 20:33:49 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

sadavid: We can always count on you. While I won't touch your first reference, I will suggest that 'an idiot wind' is just a more poetic way of saying 'a windy idiot' - a type that we're all too familiar with.


Entered at Tue Jan 27 20:22:08 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.237)

Posted by:

sadavid

Subject: tough mama weather!

Bill M: have you forgotten the report: "it was hotter than a crotch."?

Another report was pretty graphic about the Idiot Wind.


Entered at Tue Jan 27 20:13:23 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V / Kevin J: I think Dylan's focus, and thus blame, extends only to 'rain' (i.e., rain) and 'hard rain' (i.e., hail), and even then only to what it was going to do (i.e., fall) - no quantification or further qualification. Snow, blizzards, drought, cloudiness ... simply not his province.


Entered at Tue Jan 27 19:36:52 CET 2015 from (24.235.179.53)

Posted by:

Jerome Levon Avis

Subject: Last Waltz Celebration Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

Also (Former Road Manager of The Hawks/The Band).. Bill Avis's 75th Birthday.......What I night this will be in the capitol.... Spread the word if you can......... OTTAWA ! Tickets go on sale tomorrow for 'The Last Waltz - A Musical Celebration of THE BAND - LIVE" - Wed Mar. 4 , 2015. ON SALE tomorrow morning. Tues. Feb 27th.The Shenkman Arts Centre http://shenkmanarts.ca Featuring Chuck Jackson (Downchild Blues Band) The Weber Brothers, Steve Mariner (Monkey Junk), Johnny Max, and Jerome Levon Avis (Levon Helm's godson). Led by Ottawa-born musical director Lance Anderson, this critically acclaimed show has played to sold out audiences all over Ontario. A 9 piece band including 4 horns (w TUBA) - recreate the music from the 1976 award winning film by Martin Scorsese. A celebration of our Canadian musical heritage, by an all star cast of some of Canada's finest Blues and Roots musicians. Not to be missed! The Shenkman Arts Centre http://shenkmanarts.ca Lance Anderson OTTAWA ! Tickets go on sale tomorrow for 'The Last Waltz - A Musical Celebration of THE BAND - LIVE" - Wed Mar. 4 , 2015. ON SALE tomorrow morning. Tues. Feb 27th.The Shenkman Arts Centre http://shenkmanarts.ca Featuring Chuck Jackson (Downchild Blues Band) The Weber Brothers, Steve Mariner (Monkey Junk), Johnny Max, and Jerome Levon Avis (Levon Helm's godson). Led by Ottawa-born musical director Lance Anderson, this critically acclaimed show has played to sold out audiences all over Ontario. A 9 piece band including 4 horns (w TUBA) - recreate the music from the 1976 award winning film by Martin Scorsese. A celebration of our Canadian musical heritage, by an all star cast of some of Canada's finest Blues and Roots musicians. Not to be missed! The Shenkman Arts Centre http://shenkmanarts.ca Love and Miss you everyday Godfather Lee.............


Entered at Tue Jan 27 19:27:27 CET 2015 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Location: Hudson Valley, NY

Subject: The Staple Singers

I'm reading this great book by Greg Kot called 'I'll Take You There Mavis Staples, The Staple Singers And The March Up Freedom's Highway.' I love biographies on music people that I always appreciated and respected but maybe didn't know their entire story. It really sends you back to their music. So much great music came out of Chicago. Because they all came out of the gospel music world, Mavis, Same Cooke and Aretha Franklin were childhood friends. How wild is that?


Entered at Tue Jan 27 19:05:31 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Well, I always say you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.


Entered at Tue Jan 27 19:00:50 CET 2015 from (24.114.58.253)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Bob Dylan is to blame !

Ray is on to something and it's all Bob Dylan's fault........the songwriter really used to be the low man on the totem pole......then here comes the 60's and war and revolution and assassinations and suddenly the songwriters are expressing what people are feeling.........really slick looking guys and gals with nice sports coats are eventually replaced by funny looking singer-songwriters on stages and tv screens the world over......it took some time but the hard working "meteorologists" saw all this going down and rose up and decided to push the Biff's and Betty's of the "weatherman" role off screen.........and we all know what happens when science replaces acting.......Kaos ! The "Hey Biff, looks like it might be cold one tomorrow" is replaced with "Over to meteorologist Gerald" for a full 15 minutes of analysis of what might happen.........madness.........though I did love that cute reporter on CNN last night with that red toque breathlessly exclaiming "Just 2 hours ago these streets were clear and now ( looking down at her feet ) there must be 3 inches of snow ! " Can anyone take seriously a network that employs Don Lemon ?


Entered at Tue Jan 27 17:22:36 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

JT: It's weather porn and it sells, I guess because it fills our societal need to be worried about something. Same as when there's the slightest hint of a trend on the crime front. Fear plays an important political role at the moment in Canada (and I suspect in the UK, as it too is expecting an election this year), where the only hope of the conservative incumbents retaining power is to have us feeling threatened rather than hopeful.


Entered at Tue Jan 27 17:16:48 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

In the UK, The Daily Express features daily headlines about imminent weather disasters. It’s always going to be the coldest winter, wettest spring ever recorded, hottest (or coolest) summer ever recorded, wettest or driest autumn ever recorded. Next weekend will have hurricanes, or unprecedented thunder. Next year will have the deepest drought ever known this week, or the whole place will be flooded next week. I always glance at the front page just to see if they get away from the weather.


Entered at Tue Jan 27 17:05:07 CET 2015 from (67.83.171.31)

Posted by:

Ray

Not much of a "Storm" as predicted here in the NE, JT... we got off easy... if I could do it all over I'd be a TV Weatherman, they really pull in the loot and they don't have to be correct.


Entered at Tue Jan 27 16:49:00 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Snow reflection

In the 60s, we had equal snowstorms, or worse, in Toronto. My dad's car, parked outside, was often covered to its top so as not to be visible. So why are we now so intolerant of snowstorms. It has been a regular event in Toronto (perhaps a little less in the last few years, but last year's ice storm was something else again with power loss for many days) for most of my life. Suddenly, when a snowstorm arrives in the northeast, it becomes a constant story on the news stations with reporters on the roads of NYC and Boston repeatedly talking about rate of snow falling and how deep it is. Again and again, now deep, how fast. Meanwhile, murders and terror on the international scene are uncommonly discussed (NYTimes was where I went to read about Libya). Highlights on CNN 1) Obama in Saudi Arabia at funeral 2) Facebook fails 3) Blizzard - Libya not mentioned in highlights. The 'centre of the universe' (tongue deeply in cheek) has snow... oh my!


Entered at Tue Jan 27 11:00:12 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Oscar season approaches

I'm polishing up my film reviews in light of the Oscars, so "Boyhood" is added - linked.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 23:02:55 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.129)

Posted by:

Bill M

Wallsend: I read much of that endless article. It somehow seems wrong to refer to Robert Johnson as "the late icon". Maybe it's because the word 'icon' has been so cheapened.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 21:10:53 CET 2015 from (58.104.12.23)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Quote from linked site:

Rundgren also opened up about working with Jesse Winchester, whose eponymous album was produced by Robbie Robertson of The Band, and was engineered by Rundgren. He talked about Ronnie Hawkins, and recordiing at the original Woodstock Theater, which at the time was in its original form. Rundgren conceded, "The sessions, to this day, were some of the strangest sessions I've ever done." He noted that it was difficult to get all five of the band's players in the same room. Discussing Garth Hudson, who Rundgren called "a genius," he noted "he has narcolepsy." Rundgren said, "It's no secret." Rundgren recalled, "He would fall asleep right in the middle of a session." Rundgren joked that some musicians, including Levon Helm, "would fall asleep for other reasons." He recalled, "I was making fun of them all, and they hated me." Mused Rundgren, "Troubled artists are my specialty."


Entered at Mon Jan 26 20:40:07 CET 2015 from (24.114.58.253)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: The Chase - drum stick in hand .......

.....also in the Meyers book, Robbie backs up Levon's story....."There WAS a chase, says Robertson, stopping just short of confirming the whole story, "and Todd ran, I didn't expect that"


Entered at Mon Jan 26 20:39:22 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.134)

Posted by:

Bill M

Kevin J: Thanks - interesting. As I've said before, I hear a faint echo of Richard's "Seeing you / makes me lonesome too / Why don't we get together / What else can we do?" in Todd's "We gotta get you a woman / and when we're through with you / we'll get me one too".


Entered at Mon Jan 26 20:37:46 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The story continues … Glyn Johns said he had never met any of The Band at that point.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 20:35:33 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Birdman review

Building up to the Oscars … my "Birdman" review is linked.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 20:20:29 CET 2015 from (24.114.58.253)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Subject: Todd Rundgren with Levon and Rick

LINKED: Todd Rundgren's "Once Burned" - a song he claims was his imitation of Richard Manuel and on which he got Levon and Rck Danko to play on - just after Levon chased him around the studio - a story I love, by the way....the chasing part! As for Rundgren's imitation of Manuel.....well....


Entered at Mon Jan 26 19:48:20 CET 2015 from (24.114.58.253)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Helm & Robertson Stand Off ? Rundgren Cont.

From Paul Meyers book on Todd Rundgren: "Still, for all of Robertson's praise, The Band enlisted a better known producer, Glyn Johns to do a final mix of Stage Fright in addition to Rundgren's...."I think Levon actually knew Glyn, says Robertson "so it wasn't necessarily an act of aggression against Todd. Todd had done some early mixes in Woodstock and I think the consensus was that they were a little haphazard. It was agreed that the mixes needed to be done better, more professionally."

Rundgren lays some of the blame on Bearsville's untested control room "we were mixing on these speakers that no one was really sure about.......In the end, they (The Band ) sent me over to England with all the master tapes. They booked Glyn Johns into some favorite place of his where he was comfortable working. I, on the other hand, was booked into this studio - Trident - and they had these Tannoy speakers which I didn't like."

"We ended up using some of Todd's mixes, says Robertson, but the consensus was that Glyn better captured the songs, so we used most of his mixes...............but, Todd had printed most of the sounds anyway so the differences were minor, to me at least."


Entered at Mon Jan 26 19:39:14 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bill M, although DePaul gets a lot of press for its connection to the horn players in the group Chicago, Roosevelt was the home of that same group's Robert Lamm. Highly regarded as a classical school, it also had a number of forward thinking faculty members who, in the late 60's and early 70's, got interested in more contemporary forms. My contact there was Don Malone who had a roomful of modular Moog synths and recording equipment--literally hundreds of oscillators. I studied synthesis with him as an at-large student in the 70's.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 19:18:22 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.154)

Posted by:

Bill M

Pat B: I've never heard of Roosevelt U; does it have a good music program? As you likely know, Alan Gerber did a solo LP post Rhinoceros, then moved to the Montreal area, where he still resides and plays. I imagine he's issued a fistful of indie CDs by now, but the only montreal recording I have is an early '70s 45 on Good Noise, a local label owned by Frazier Mohawk. After moving to Toronto, Mohawk became a clown, bought a farm, opened a pumpkin patch, opened a kids area and - because it was in his blood - opened a recording studio there two. He did both ex-Hawk Scott Cushnie's "Two Pianos No Waiting" CDs.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 15:37:22 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.237)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: strange fruit

How the Feds killed Lady Day.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 12:44:33 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.92)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Petty's Not So Petty Cash

Linked.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 10:02:31 CET 2015 from (58.104.17.157)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

The link is to a customer review of the Three of a Kind cd on Amazon. The reviewer seems to know something (or at least more than I do) about the different mixes of Stage Fright.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 09:41:54 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Just checked - I have been in Trident, but the Easter 1970 was Morgan Studios. Their history says they installed a 16 track in 1969. Glyn Johns said he had to mix at Helios as they had one of the only 16 tracks in London. So there were at least two others operating six months earlier in well-known commercial studios.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 09:25:14 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: 16 track

The other thingI noticed on Wiki … Hot Rats in 1970 was on Zappa's "home made 16 track" which replaced his home-made 12 track. According to that, on "Hot Rats" Zappa was among the first to assign multiple tracks to the drums, thus mixing them across the stereo soundscape. He assigned 4 tracks to drums. Hot Rats was such a superb record … though the multi-tracked drums eventually became a horrid 1980s over-used cliché.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 09:20:45 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Which mix?

Dave H traces the different mixes on Stage Fright in the linked article. There may have ben a release since. David P also examined this somewhere in the GB archives,


Entered at Mon Jan 26 09:17:38 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Stage Fright

The other interesting thing is that Glyn Johns, just having done The Rolling Stones best stuff, hadn't used 16 track before. I just Googled and Tommy James and The Shondells "Crimson & Clover" was the first 16 track album in 1968. Apparently, use "exploded in 1969." It also says Trident had a 16 track in London in December 1969, and I watched a band recording at Trident at Easter 1970 and I thought was 16 track. Mind you, I have no memory of saying two drummers were bad, so why trust me?

It surprises me that Stage Fright, recorded "May-June 1970" according to Wiki was Glyn John's first experience of 16 track. We are talking about the first choice producer for The Rolling Stones and The Who.

I remember a Mothers of Invention album having a big sticker note on the front about being recorded on 32 track and 30 ips, and that would be not much later, but that may be as false a memory syndrome bit as Jeff's strong clear memory of me dissing two drummers.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 08:58:18 CET 2015 from (219.89.223.220)

Posted by:

Rod

Richard was the stand out performer for me on those 80's reunion DVDs. He seemed to really nail his parts - while the others often just seemed to be going through the motions at times.

There was an early CD release of Stage Fright that I think had some of the alternative mixes on it. All La Glory and perhaps Daniel and the Sacred Harp. Must have a listen to it again. That's the only CD I kept when the re-issues came out.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 06:12:52 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Nazz/Rhinoceros

Nazz: I loved that first album. "Open My Eyes" is a great song and it has Todd's signature all over it. I first heard it blasting out of a clothing store on Yonge St. below Bloor (west side) and couldn't believe my ears. I went in and immediately went down to Sam The Record Man to buy it.

Rhinoceros: First album is a classic. Jon and Lee are among musicians who didn't get the recognition they richly deserved.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 05:58:22 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bill M, Alan went to Roosevelt University and was living in Chicago when he got the Rhino gig through Paul Rothschild. Great singer and great keyboardist.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 05:40:40 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bill M, Todd signed with Albert Grossman after the Nazz disbanded and then became a Bearsville artist. He engineered the first Jesse Winchester album with RR producing (and Levon playing), and I believe he engineered the first Great Speckled Bird album. He liked to work fast, which wasn't the Band's style in 1970.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 05:24:08 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Yet, oddly enough, although you played the persecution complex as thoroughly as humanly possible--and still do--no one ever did censor you.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 05:23:13 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.159)

Posted by:

Bill M

JT and posted the other day about the "Saved" gospel CD with John Finley, Michael Fonfara et al. Because of that I dug out the first Rhinoceros album for a couple listens over the weekend - to hear Finley and Fonfara as they were in '68, and also the great Billy Mundi, who'd recently left the Mothers and who would subsequently move to Woodstock and drum with the Muldaurs, Great Specled Bird and the Band (on several "Moondog Matinee" tracks). Anyway, the first Rhino still sounds phenomenal - everybody, not just Finley, Fonfara and Mundi. I suspect that Pat B will be familiar with the earlier work of the group's second great vocalist (i.e., not Finley) a Chicagoan, Alan Gerber, who sings half the songs-


Entered at Mon Jan 26 04:54:14 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.150)

Posted by:

Bill M

I find it difficult to believe that Levon chasing Todd was anything more than two guys horsing around in the studio. And if the tale can be nudged in a more newsworthy direction in a retelling decades later, what's the harm in that?

By the way, where does the Runt album, with Levon guesting on a song, I believe, fit into the chronology?

Also, didn't Todd get to work with the Band mainlybecause he was the house engineer at Bearsville - M Frog, Jericho, etc.?

My ideal "Stage Fright" reissue would have had the whole thing twice - the Todd-mastered and the Glynn-mastered. The reissue of the first Buffalo Springfield was along those lines, and also the Traffic with "Dear Mr Fantasy".


Entered at Mon Jan 26 04:01:02 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.92)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat, your jumping in here is making me a little misty eyed at the memories that you guys never did maintain a sraight discussion or argument when a difference of opinion was involved nor did you manage to maintain a discussion or argument involving a difference of opinion on either of your own 2 legs.

It's also kind of nice that you admit that when some one has a different opinion than yours, doesn't buckle to pressure, is actually able to follow the manner in which you attempt to manipulate ,censor and control a forum, and to present that back to you, that you resort to comments like that person "made life difficult for all concerned." For you that's a very mild assault & misportrayal, but it's still early.

Me, I'm a Democrat. I don't mind someone having a different opinion. Your discussive personality is so very, very right wing Pat.

Tracy isn't around to offer her two cents.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 00:54:03 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Peter, I know Glyn Johns says Levon thought of it, it's just Levon never told Davis he thought of it. You'd think he would have.

Yeah, Jeff, I too unfortunately volunteered to help manage the other GB's, and back then you made life difficult for all concerned. Things don't change.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 00:42:35 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.92)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, nothing changes. you still are unable to address any opinion other than yours, or any shortcoming in your arguments in a clean and nondeceptive manner. As you are well aware, i've been discussing it would be in the Gb archives. My last statement "It's there. It would be in the no longer accessible GBs of Tracy & Norbert as well." does not discount that, though you attempt to present that it did. It informs newcomers such as Ben & wallsend (that were not present )that there were two other interim GBs and that some of the discussions took place there. As well as in this GB.


Entered at Mon Jan 26 00:16:28 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Glyn Johns mixes

Ah! Of course, Jeff! It was in something that no longer exists that only you remember. It must be true then, though unfortunately the evidence has gone into the ether.

Glyn Johns:

Stage Fright … was the first 16 track recording I ever came across and Basing Street, having just been built was one of the first studios in London to acquire a 16 track machine.

Todd Rundgren had engineered the record and Levon Helm came up with the idea that I should mix it. Robbie Robertson quite understandably wanted Todd Rundgren to mix what he had started. So there was a standoff that resulted in Todd coming to London with the multitrack tapes and he and I doing our own set of mixes independently … Levon was very happy with the mixes I sent and I still don’t know how many of mine got used. I hope it was 50/50. I have a great deal of respect for Todd and hope that he was not too upset about me messing with his recordings. ENDQUOTE

Telling words: "A standoff."


Entered at Mon Jan 26 00:00:18 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.92)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Ben, having The Band return was a great gift.

Pete, no one who reads here would expect you to fess up to taking contradictory positions. Watching it happen is good enough.I'm not going hunting. It's there. It would be in the no longer accessible GBs of Tracy & Norbert as well. This life is fleeting a best. It's what comes next where me may actually answer for our transgressions.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 23:48:24 CET 2015 from (58.104.17.157)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Richard's views about the 1980s Band is on this website.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 23:26:02 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: Richard

Pat, Please enlighten us. You've now made two references to Richard having issues with the reformed Band, but you haven't provided any links or quotes. If you have something relevant to add to the discussion, please do so.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 22:55:00 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, whatever his problems, Richard also had things to say about the 80's Band and the music they produced.

Peter, in the Davis book, Levon never cops to involving Glyn Johns, which would seem to be a salient fact worth noting if true.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 21:21:00 CET 2015 from (58.104.17.157)

Posted by:

Wallsend

If Levon returned just before the realise of MFBP and they were fighting at the time of Stage Fright that means the mythical period when they were all 'brothers' was pretty short.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 20:10:21 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: Richard

I'm thankful that the Band reformed in 1983 and continued performing until 1997. I enjoy listening and watching concerts from the various lineups spanning these years.

Richard's suicide was a tragedy, but that doesn't diminish the music from that period, 1983-86. Richard had serious issues for most of the Band's career that were never dealt with. He was in very bad shape on the '76 tour, much of which was cancelled due to his injuries. Arguably, Richard's condition on the '76 tour was one of the major reasons that led Robbie to quit the Band.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 18:48:48 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Glyn Johns & Stage Fright

On another topic. I’m continuing through Glyn Johns’ “Sound Man”. It really, really needed an editor to go through and highlight every time he said someone was a wonderful person who played an instrument brilliantly and made a great record.

On “Stage Fright” he expands the story. Robbie was happy with Todd Rundgren. Levon wanted to commission the Glyn Johns mix instead (Glyn was hot after a run of the best Rolling Stones albums). Glyn says he never even met Todd, let alone any of The Band, and the master tapes were sent over one track at a time, then sent back to Todd (who was in London) one track at a time. Glyn has no idea which were used, but hoped it was 50/50 (it has been explored in detail in the various releases). He also said it was the first time he ever worked without the musicians present. The clear Robbie / Levon divide on Stage Fright in 1970 is an interesting pointer to the future. Robbie had worked with Todd Rundgren on the “Jesse Winchester” album which is how Todd got the Stage Fright gig. There was a story of Levon chasing Todd around the Bearsville Theatre threatening to “bite his ear off” (or was it nose?) because Todd had referred to Garth as “the old man.” So it would be reasonable to draw the conclusion that Levon disliked Todd, and Robbie liked him.

It also backs up that there was a "who's the boss" issue between Robbie and Levon even in 1970.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 18:28:48 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Richard's view of what happened to The Band in the 80's is pretty succinct. No amount of word play, selective memory, and red herrings will change that.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 18:11:15 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Just find one post by me knocking the fact of having two drums in the 90s period. I'll stand corrected if you do.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 16:21:41 CET 2015 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA
Web: My link

Subject: Levon

Its a shame Levon had money troubles after the Band. He could have made a fortune in Nashville. He was so natural. Check out the video.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 15:52:20 CET 2015 from (173.71.90.80)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

There have been interesting posts for the last few days here. It's very nice to see people talking about the Band again.

I've been very impressed by everything I've heard by 'The Weight' that's been posted online. I don't think it's really accurate to describe them as simply a tribute to the Band since Jim and Randy were in the Band. If they could recruit Garth, then in my book, they would have every right to call themselves The Band.

I listened to 'Moondog Matinee' yesterday for the first time in several years and throrughly enjoyed it. This album is a gem. I particularly enjoyed Levon's vocal on 'I'm ready'.

Peter, I find your comments on the 80's and 90's Band always interesting. But, I disagree with some of your views. I think it's very easy for us in 2015 to criticise the addition of the Cate brothers in 1983. This was obviously Levon's decision as Levon had been touring with the Cates and his nephew was the drummer. My guess is that if Rick, Richard and Garth didn't agree to taking the Cates, then the tours in '83 and '84 would not have happened. I have several shows from that period and find them very enjoyable.

I really disagree with your comment about the period between the Cates departure and the Sony contract being poor. I really enjoy this period. They changed their setlists quite a bit, added rarely performed songs and played like they had something to prove. Some of the shows from 1986 were very spirited.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 15:13:43 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: One Drum Linked

Pete, the answer to your question is 100% Mongrolian. If yours is not a simple case of very conscious denial, there are vitamins, herbs, and minerals that can help you. I've no need to go back through the GB archives. Over the years you've proselytized your originally stated position several dozen times here. Separately, does your statement "I don’t think I ever realized the true extent of “like a dog with a bone” before" override your frequent use of it here in the past in relation to anyone who disagrees with you? Either way,the bones in question this time are your opposing and often odd & even problematic presentations of the two drum approach of the Band. God only knows what the causes have been, but the fact of it is obvious.

Although you'll insist it mustn't have happened, the 80s Band delivered some brilliant shows. I attended an easy approximate 7 or 8 brilliant ones between returning to NYC in Jan of 85 & Richard's death. After that, throughout the rest of the 80s, it was always a mystery what would happen, but, there were moments of greatness in every, or maybe every show save one, that I attended.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 12:38:42 CET 2015 from (87.152.120.121)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Germany
Web: My link

Subject: The last question

I wonder if this massive increase of entropy of the universe ever can be reversed.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 11:45:54 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Jeff, I don’t think I ever realized the true extent of “like a dog with a bone” before. There are archives. Find me just one post where I lamented the twin drum approach. Check out my concert and album reviews of the 90s Band. They’re all here.

I have consistently criticized the choice of live material. A good “producer” would say. Right, Crazy Mama’s out. This Wheel’s On Fire replaces it. Every show. No discussion. Next, Caldonia, Same Thing, Stuff You Gotta Watch. All out. Levon choose one to go back in … if you want that as your solo showcase, though frankly I suggest Jemima Surrender with you playing guitar instead. To replace the other two, one Rick solo career song … All Our Past Times, maybe, or Blue River or Driftin’ Away. That sort of thing. Then Garth gets to choose a showcase (apart from Chest Fever). Maybe Caravan? Or something new. But accompanied by the rest, so different from the solo Chest Fever intro. Jim keeps his showcase on Deep Feeling or Many Rivers To Cross. When we have a longer set, how about doing the only number one single any of us played on to feature Richard Bell? So Rick and Levon divide up vocals on Me & Bobby McGee. I think that would have hugely improved the show. They should have asked me.

I have said the blues songs were lacklustre, not the “set” or playing. I acquired dozens of live Band cassettes. I listened wanting them to be great, but the period AFTER the Cate Bros tour up to the “lost Sony album” is pretty poor. The 90s had some great shows.

The 90s Band problem was material. Period. Atlantic City and Blind Willie McTell were definitely as good as the OQ. One Too Many Mornings and Forever Young stand out. But for the rest of it, they didn’t have Springsteen or Dylan (nor Robbie!) writing, except the appalling Love You too Much, a Dylan song below even the Saved level. Its only asset was “by Bob Dylan” on the sleeve.

They weren’t lacklustre overall, except the Lorelei DVD which they were daft to release. Only Levon came out of that one well. BUT I will say that live I enjoyed every second, but in the 80s and 90s I saw several better live bands – k.d. lang, Paul Simon, Van Morrison, The Everly Brothers for starters.

Last Jeff, if you’re still reading, Pisces or Scorpio?


Entered at Sun Jan 25 09:03:17 CET 2015 from (219.89.223.220)

Posted by:

Rod

OK lets put Peter to the test......

The Moon Struck One or King Harvest?


Entered at Sun Jan 25 07:02:07 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Jerry. For over 12 years in the GB Pete has insisted that Band performances in the 80s & 90s were lackluster and essentially unenjoyable and that one of the consistent reasons for that was the two drum approach. If you want to see his new position as an amendment that's your business. I see it as a reversal equivalent to a Muslim extremist embracing Judaism and severe enough to constitute legitimate cause for concern. .. What come's next? Wearing women's clothes & believing in unicorns? Becoming a Hare' Krishna? A Moonie? I don't know about you, but I'm concerned for the man.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 02:50:04 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Amendments

Hurray for change.

So we change our attitudes and our views of things sometimes.

"People are crazy, times are strange

I'm locked in tight, I'm outta range

I used to care, but things have changed"


Entered at Sun Jan 25 01:59:12 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.129)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: People don't seem to realise that losing two of your fellow Moonstruck Ones like that - first Ray then Pete - is bound to change how you see the world.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 00:55:02 CET 2015 from (58.104.18.109)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I have been listening to quite a lot of CCR recently. I read an article which quoted John saying, at Tom's funeral, 'We wanted to grow up and be rock and roll stars. We became rock and roll stars but we didn't grow up'. Really sad story.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 00:33:33 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Wallsend, my GB experience began in August or September 2002. Peter's only recently begun misremembering. That should redress two issues for you.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 00:09:48 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Funnily enough, I have written a reasonably nice sentence about Pete Seeger in a forthcoming Toppermost AND mentioned The Doors quite neutrally in the same one - but I was talking about organ playing, NOT singing or lyrics. You'll have to wait and find out who the artist is.


Entered at Sun Jan 25 00:06:45 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

1996-2006 v 2006-2015. I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.


Entered at Sat Jan 24 22:35:53 CET 2015 from (58.104.18.109)

Posted by:

Wallsend

joe j, I have the same feeling about 'Strange Fruit'. A song that shows the real power of music. It is 'dreadful' and 'terrible' in the original senses of those words. A song that evokes 'dread' and 'terror'.

On a lighter note, Peter V, I have also noticed a certain inconsistency in your posts in between the period 1996-2006 and 2006 to the present. Care to explain yourself?

Jeff A, What is this talk of 'Planet Waves', did Levon complain that Bob stole his songs as well?


Entered at Sat Jan 24 21:52:32 CET 2015 from (219.89.223.220)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: 2 drummers and one guitarist

I agree completely that they should have gone for a guitarist who wasn't just a Robbie impersonator ... and it would have been nice if they had let Jim do his own thing more. My guess is that they would have sounded completely different if Robbie had still been in The Band in the 80s. Robbie's style would have changed (as it always does) and I think Garth would have been more adventurous and dominant in the sound.

Back to that two drummer thing. I listened to Jericho and Hog a few weeks back. One thing that annoyed me was the stong back beat on a lot/most of the songs. The most interesting thing was Shine A Light but give me Street Walker any day for a nice groove. (a lot of that comes down to Ricks bass - simple but effective). Levon's lighter touch was part of the signature sound of THe Band.


Entered at Sat Jan 24 21:48:12 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Kevin, it's more serious than that. Peter is set on a course, well, he's set on a course where a short 10 or 15 years from now he might be espousing a position that Levon may have been correct regarding his copyright positions on the first two Band albums and Planet Waves.


Entered at Sat Jan 24 21:43:34 CET 2015 from (96.30.173.135)

Posted by:

joe j

Web: My link

Subject: billie

Every now and then I work up the courage to listen to "Strange Fruit".


Entered at Sat Jan 24 21:16:27 CET 2015 from (24.114.58.253)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Imagine a telephone conversation that might take place 30 years from now between two of Peter's grand kids:

"Sorry to ring you so late but Mom and Dad are away and there is something about Grandpa that is really concerning me"

"Well, what is it...........don't tell me he's stopped listenning to The Band?

"No, not that"

"Oh, for Christsake, he's stopped attending record fairs ?"

" No, no...he's still going...a bounce in his step and all.."

"Well, what the hell is it then........he's not smashed his Simon Felice collection - has he?"

"Certainly not......it's just that he can't stop talking about how great The Band sounded with two drummers in the 90's"

"Oh, Dear God, this is serious........I'll catch the first plane out tomorow and see what I can do to help turn this around...."


Entered at Sat Jan 24 21:13:31 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Oy,Pete, you're making me a nervous norvous...I'm wondering what comes next....Maybe you have a very close, trustworthy friend that you can ask to put you out of your misery when you insist you always loved The Doors or Pete Seeger.


Entered at Sat Jan 24 21:04:05 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: When numbers get serious

80's - cluttered drums with Terry Cagle from Cates. Waste of space.

90s - twin drums with Randy Ciarlante. Excellent.

I rest my case.


Entered at Sat Jan 24 20:44:26 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Not odd at all Pete. Please forgive my matter of fact style of writing throughout this conversation. It's not meant to be antagonistic, but sometimes dryness engages when i make an effort to be more clear than humorous...So, here goes... Your response to what I wrote was not direct. In fact, it was directed elsewhere and your 3 illustrations were from other areas.

Though you implied that I could have, I did not write that you were critical of Randy. I wrote that for over a decade in The Gb you have bitched about how you disliked the 80s & 90s Band two drum approach.

Aside from possibly reading part of a review you did on one show & reposted in the GB, I've not read your reviews of Band concerts on your website, or blog, or posted on The Band website review section. I strictly addressed your GB writings...Again, here is what i wrote." in my GB experience you have spent over a decade deriding the two drum approach of the 80s & 90s Band. You've referred to it as cluttered and many other things, not suitable to The Band's sound." That's accurate Pete. I recall you've always been positive about Randy as an individual, but, you've been very negative towards the two drum approach to performance by the 80s & 90s Band. Also, let me point out that is a very different thing than having the embracing the ability to have one of two drummers performing and the other playing something else.

None of this bothers me, but i thought that if maybe one more or one less cup of tea a day can reinvigorate the old Peter, well, things return to normal & I would stop worrying about you ...


Entered at Sat Jan 24 19:48:25 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

That's odd, Jeff. I have criticized the choice of material The Band did live in the 90s often, but to my knowledge I never criticized the three "new guys." I never thought they had any choice in it. I'd be interested to see where I criticized the two drums in the90s (though I thought it a waste of space with the Cates in the 80s). I have the utmost respect for Randy as both a drummer and a singer.

1999 London Forum (Garth): This is my favourite song from Jubilation, and the reading by Randy, Aaron and Marie was faultless

1996 Cambridge UK: The twin drum sound is a powerhouse, and Ciarlante is great on his own when Levon switches to mandolin or bass. In fact, when Ciarlante moves to bass for Caledonia Mission, the sound of Levon alone is noticeably less powerful than Ciarlante alone. Levon’s still the best drummer in rock, but he’s got used to being one of a pair of drummers, and I guess he just isn’t smacking the skins as hard as he did.

1994 Vancouver: Because Richard Manuel had doubled on piano and drums, he'd needed two replacements. Randy Ciarlante enabled Levon to go off on mandolin, though not as much as I'd expected. More often they used twin drummers as a powerhouse.

Just three reviews. Seems positive to me!


Entered at Sat Jan 24 18:50:14 CET 2015 from (67.87.216.55)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, I 've been concerned about you for quite a while now.Many of your musical endorsements have seemed out of character for a formerly very discerning type, but, now, this last post of yours, well, all i can say is you just pulled a Doctor Jekyll & Mr Viney. I'm not about to go looking for examples, but in my GB experience you have spent over a decade deriding the two drum approach of the 80s & 90s Band. You've referred to it as cluttered and many other things, not suitable to The Band's sound.. I'm not commenting on what it was or wasn't , just commenting on your about face. ...


Entered at Sat Jan 24 11:59:31 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Drumming

The IoW Like A Rolling Stone is vastly better on “Another Self Portrait” than the original mix.

The two drummers worked for the 90s Band for me. They had to free up Levon to play mandolin, harmonica (he also played bass guitar on one, though I’d rate that as interesting, but unnecessary). They didn’t have anyone who could double on drums without Richard, so there was no alternative but a second drummer. Randy also sang Chest Fever and added the needed third voice on other songs. When Levon moved off drums, Randy always did a fine job, plus, as I said in one review, when Randy moved off drums to bass, the drums sounded softer. Not because they were reduced to one, because they often were when Levon played mandolin or harmonica, but because of the difference in age and physical strength, I guess, Randy hit the skins noticeably harder.

I think The Cate Bros 1983 was a case of too many cocks spoil the brothel, as we used to say. I have every Cate Bros album. I liked them very much, BUT I thought the VHS and then DVD wonderful when I first heard them, being Band-starved, but with Richard still present they only needed a guitar player. Subsequent listenings made me realize it’s often a mess. A third keyboard player, second bass player and second drummer just muddied up the sound. That was another weird decision … it doubled transport costs and hotel costs, overcrowded the stage to a negative effect. If they couldn’t get Earl Cate without the band, they should have looked elsewhere. In fact if they were looking for a guitarist (before Jim) they should have recruited someone with a distinctive personal style rather than a Robbie replicator.


Entered at Sat Jan 24 07:48:01 CET 2015 from (219.89.223.220)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: Various stuff

its been a while since I posted but I always visit the GB as often as I can......

firstly , I like Self Portrait and especially the IOW tracks. There are better version of Rolling Stone but this one is OK.

I don't really like The Weight concept. Randy and Jimmy are both fine musicians but it seems like two sidemen cashing in to me. I never liked the two drummers approach of the reformed Band. Levon was a more than adequate drummer on his own. Just a huge shame Richard wasn't around to cover for him.

Finally, Helm , Hudson and McCoy. This one slipped under my radar. I fairly average set but Levon and Garth both shine on it. Especially Garth - I could almost hear some Forbiddin Fruit licks on one track.


Entered at Sat Jan 24 05:43:28 CET 2015 from (98.215.30.129)

Posted by:

Zavadka

Subject: The Weight: Atlantic City

I rather liked Randy in the Atlantic City ditty; sometimes an early critique seems to get in the way of just enjoying the moment.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 23:30:54 CET 2015 from (58.104.15.202)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

The link is to a copy of the 27/12/1969 edition of Rolling Stone that contains an interview with Robbie. Is that interview available on this site or somewhere else? I couldn't find it.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 20:40:35 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: sometimes it's not what we want that matters, but what we get

Wellsend: Honesty in cubism was at the core of my intervention on Wed at 23:23:30 GBST (Guestbook Standard Time).


Entered at Fri Jan 23 20:33:58 CET 2015 from (24.114.59.75)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

....and here is that iconic performance Jeff.......Garth really shines on this and as Robbie noted at the time of the Live at the Acadamy release...Levon was always on.......Randy always seems so natural and flowing and I think this band they have put together is great - especially if as noted in the recent NY Times article ( in the "What's New" section of this GB ) they really start to mine some of the more obscure Band material. I would love to hear them do "Out of the Blue"......and having a bit of a home base at the Barn will be nice for them and us.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 20:16:40 CET 2015 from (58.104.15.202)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Ian, I also think your analysis of Self Portrait makes sense. For me the album would have been better if they had given over a whole record side to each aspect of Dylan's musical personality. That way some of us who are slow on the uptake would have known what it was we were listening to. As it stands it isn't so much a self portrait as it is a mish-mash of seemingly unrelated things. Including the poorly recorded IOW songs was a terrible idea. They didn't even choose the best songs.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 20:00:02 CET 2015 from (67.84.79.158)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Subject: When & Where? Who Judges?

Kevin, in the early part of the song, Randy's drumming was noticeably influenced by Levon. Towards the end, that was gone, and so was the wiggle, and maybe the vocal effect too. I don't recall & have desire to return to check...What was left was just a bunch of musicians playing a song The Band once did an iconic version of.

Peter, i didn't doubt you noticed Randy's performance was a loving & well intended tribute. However, you did not discuss that, & it needed to be discussed. You're quite welcome, of course.

The Weight doing Band songs is gaining what seems to be good, & is becoming steady work.

Of course, no one is saying it, but everyone must have wondered this. Will there be a performance Battle of The Band bands? The Weight vs The The Band Band?


Entered at Fri Jan 23 19:35:03 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

Tonight we do our Dylan tribute again at Fitzgerald's in beautiful Berwyn, Illinois. Our special guest is the amazing Cathy Richardson from Jefferson Airplane.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 18:20:21 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

While I can see why someone might not have liked "Self Portrait" on first or second listen, but how could anyone hear "All The Tired Horses" as shit? It and "Copper Kettle" are the only songs on the album that I loved right away and still do. Others took time, and some still haven't quite made it.

Another approach to "What is this shit?" is to see it as the Jeopardy-like question to the given answer, "Self Portrait". That is, a benign attempt to play along and provide the jester a straight line ...

Ian W: I think you're right, by the way, setting out facets that the Bobster put into his cubism. (There were other facets there too.)


Entered at Fri Jan 23 16:19:23 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: SELF PORTRAIT - a few more comments

1. The overdubbing started at Columbia's studios in Hollywood (not Nashville). They used a studio contractor called Ben Barrat to assemble the session musicians, who, according to my notes, included Ginger Blake (a member of The Honeys) and Clydie King amongst others. I do not know whether these overdub sessions (two days' worth) were successful ot not but the overdubbing switched to Nashville a few days later.\ 2. The recording sessions for what became NEW MORNING began before the release of SELF PORTRAIT, so the ROLLING STONE line about "We've got Dylan back", above their review of NEW MORNING, was wrong.

3. Another myth, in my opinion, from ROLLING STONE concerned the "What is this shit?" line about SELF PORTRAIT. My reading of the layout and presentation of the SP review was that "What is this shit?" referred to the opening track, "All The Tired Horses", not the whole album. It was the first line of the review, hence the subsequent quoting of it.

4. On the subject of "All The Tired Horses", it was recorded at the very end of the last of the three New York sessions (5 March 1970). If it was an odd choice as an album opener, it was an even odder choice as a session closer.\ 5. A further oddity is that "All The Tired Horses" has a lower Columbia take reference number (CO 101488) than either of the two other songs allocated "CO" numbers that day. In fact, Bob Johnston did not seem to follow the standard New York studio practice of slating every song and every take and, even when he did, was inconsistent. In the normal course of events, a lower "CO" number later in a session would indicate that the song was attempted earlier in the session or at a previous session and that Dylan came back to it - to make another attempt at it, in other words. The "Tape Identification Data" session sheet for 3 March 1970 (at least the one that someone has published) does not note the "CO" numbers at all, so maybe it comes from another such sheet for the same session. Those who have researched the Columbia archives have not found any evidence of an earlier frecording of "All The Tired Horses" or have found it but not yet published it.All in all, the whole thing is a bit odd.

6. On 5 March 1970, "Time Passes Slowly" was also recorded but earlier in the session. The third and final take of the song was the only complete one and, interestingly enough, both the preceding incomplete takes are marked as "Warm up" on the "Tape Identification Data" session sheet. So, yes, some of the recordings were indeed "warm ups" but not all, it would seem.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 15:51:50 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: On the eve of the American standards album: AARP Dylan interview

I just read the AARP Dylan interview. It is very interesting and certainly it is clear that Dylan is engaged and ready and responsive in a positive way to the issues raised. It was an elder statesman-like interaction with wisdom and common sense dominating. I thought of San Francisco Dec. 1965 when I was reading it and again marvelled at evolution and change. Ain't it something?


Entered at Fri Jan 23 15:33:09 CET 2015 from (24.114.59.75)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Just how deep is your love of The Band ?

Well.....I have my family above any recording but my older brother coming in somewhere between Cahoots and Islands. I love him but it has been a while since he had a "TNTDODD at TLW" or "The Weight - original recording" kind of day.

Ian W: Thank you for that take.........what is interesting about this whole bootleg series is just how much material the Dylan team has to work with......still to come Blood on the Tracks, B on B, Infidels, etc.

The Weight - Atlantic City: First time I have ever seen a full-on impression of Levon Helm.......I would think/hope that as loving a nod as that was that it would be limited to just this one song per show. Very few perfect one-offs in rock n roll and Levon Helm was one to be sure.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 15:32:13 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

That makes sense, Ian. The "it would make a great single album" theory has been around a while too. It's one I used to think about it … you'd take out all four Band tracks first, however good Minstrel Boy is (and I love it) because they just don't fit the mood.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 15:26:51 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Closer to reality?

Ian: That sounds sensible and indeed may be closer to the truth. The comments ascribed to Dylan over the years about the album as delineated by Howells may be reconstruction and revisionism but as I said, it is likely that during those interviews, he wanted to move on and gave the issue the interview thought was so important little import. Thanks for that, Ian.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 14:18:15 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Self Portrait

The John Howells article on SELF PORTRAIT is interesting, in that it brings together Dylan's changing view of the album over the years (or, at least, what he chose to say about the the album over the years). May I suggest something a little different.

If you look at the sessions, they were in two groups: the three Nashville sessions in 1969 and the three New York sessions in 1970.

The Nashville sessions were mainly made up of what I might (rather loosely)call country-pop songs. The only self-penned song ("Living The Blues") is itself a derivative of a country-pop song. I suggest that, in 1969, he was planning a follow-up to NASHVILLE SKYLINE, which had sold quite well, having peaked at No.3 in the BILLBOARD album charts. The "Lady, Lady, Lay" single was a Top Ten hit, too. NASHVILLE SKYLINE was a short album, being less than half-an-hour long, as I recall, even with the inclusion of one instrumental number and a duet with Johnny Cash, suggesting that Dylan was in a "dry period" in terms of songwriting. There may even have been record company pressure for a follow-up album, for all we know. Dylan had recorded with Cash in February and was in Nashville for Cash's TV show. He was seen carrying round sheet music for one of the Everly Brothers songs. In my view, these 1969 sessions were intended to form a new Dylan album, the one referred to as BLUE MOON in the article.

For whatever reason, this particular follow-up album never happened. Come 1970, Dylan seems to have expanded his intention. The sessions add songs from the folk tradition, contemporary songs by other singer-songwriters and some originals. The output from these New York sessions sounded different from the 1969 recordings and, at some stage, a decision seems to have been made to try to get some kind of "uniform" sound from the two sets of sessions, for an album release - hence the overdubbing sessions in Nashville. Whether you regard this overdubbing as successful is a matter of taste.

The prospect of a "live" album (another option where there is a lack of original material), from the Isle of Wight concert, seems to have fallen by the wayside but, whenever a double album became considered, including a few of those tracks may have seemed like a good idea.

Dylan's recent country "bag" + some material from his "folk roots" + his take on a few contemporary "classics" + the way Dylan reworks records different versions of the same song in the studio + some recent live recordings with The Band = a portrait of Bob Dylan beyond the singer-songwriter tagline.

That's how I see SELF PORTRAIT anyway.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 12:56:47 CET 2015 from (86.153.242.221)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Ian and Sylvia

Played Ian and Sylvia's greatest hits on Monday, first time in a couple of years. A handful of really outstanding songs amongst good work.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 10:32:27 CET 2015 from (83.160.180.22)

Posted by:

Ragtime

Location: Low countries

Subject: Ben Gesek

Ben Gesek: I love The Band too, dearly... but I think you need help, my friend... -;)


Entered at Fri Jan 23 10:24:08 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Sorry, a little more. The director on summer shows often had a simple instruction. "You don't need to smile. You don't need to jig about. But you do need to pretend to be watching whoever is singing or soloing. Just point your head in the direction."


Entered at Fri Jan 23 10:18:40 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Being involved

Jeff, I realize Randy was doing a tribute, and he was doing a brilliant job of it too.

I’m reading Glyn Johns’ autobiography “Sound Man” currently. He mentions that Nicky Hopkins played deadpan, and his great friend Ian Stewart was made to play behind the curtains for The Rolling Stones. Looking uninvolved is something many musicians can slip into. It’s not a barrier to success, especially for session work, and Bill Wyman, with the on stage charisma of a mollusc, made a good living. It can be a barrier in a band, and I could cite cases of people being edged out of bands, not for lack of musical ability, but because their failure to engage facially and physically put the rest of the band off. You feel daft leaping about when the guy next to you is apparently totally static.

When I watch a symphony orchestra at least 25% of the musicians seem to zone out, especially notable as a lot aren’t playing all the time. But when I saw the young string and horn sections with Brian Wilson and John Cale they were involved, and having a ball too. it makes such a difference.

In the video in question, three people are clearly putting their hearts into it and enjoying playing, and two are motionless. It’s bad camera work too - faced with a deadpan keyboard player, you avoid them, then zoom in and show the fingers on the keys.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 07:47:05 CET 2015 from (104.58.65.165)

Posted by:

Ben Gesek

Location: New York/Florikda

Subject: The band

I love The Band more than I could ever love a human being


Entered at Fri Jan 23 06:58:52 CET 2015 from (121.93.152.87)

Posted by:

Scott

Location: American expat now living in Japan
Web: My link

Subject: Still Heartbroken

Two years after my brother took his own life, Richard Manuel's suicide really shot a huge hole through my heart -- and I never quite recovered, from either. Richard's heart and soul will live on forever.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 06:32:17 CET 2015 from (67.84.78.185)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Just came across this 1977 live version of Take It To The Limit & realized no one has mentioned The Eagles here of late.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 02:25:19 CET 2015 from (96.30.173.135)

Posted by:

joe j

Web: My link

Subject: Once

"Can't Help Falling In Love"


Entered at Fri Jan 23 01:50:54 CET 2015 from (67.84.78.185)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

While I'm not commenting on the performance in the video of Atlantic city by The Weight, i do have a comment in relation to Peter's. Randy is a great guy and fine musician.That vocal performance is not his natural singin voice, he clearly has made an "in tribute" adjustment to sound sorta like Levon and I'm sure it is meant as a tribute. If you watch, he also has adopted Levon's shoulder wiggle, again, I'm sure it's meant as a tribute. Peter, regarding your mention that the keyboard players need to work on how to look interested, well,from what I've seen Brian normally or often has a deadpan appearance on stage, just how it is.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 01:04:08 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Ian's Ranch

As Ian confirms in this interview. In about 1986 or 7 when we opened the club "Boone County" in Coquitlam out here. One night Ian and I leaned on the bar chatting about his songs. He laughed and said to me, "when Neil recorded 4 strong winds, I got enough to buy my ranch. Now I need him to record another one so I can buy some cattle."

Always an evening I enjoyed. I told him I was going to record Some Day Soon, and I had his blessing.


Entered at Fri Jan 23 00:45:18 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Superb performance by Randy on vocals and drums there. When I used to do the summer shows in the 60s they used to spend an hour or so checking out the backing band to make sure everyone looked enthusiastic and keenly watching the singer. So many musicians seem unaware of the need to present interest in the vocal rather than just concentrating on playing. Both keyboard players here need to work on that.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 22:56:53 CET 2015 from (84.215.230.4)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

The Weight: "Atlantic City", City Winery, NYC, 01.08.2015


Entered at Thu Jan 22 21:38:43 CET 2015 from (24.114.59.75)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINK: a clip fom a fine doc on Ian Tyson and the still very beautiful lady that inspired "Four Strong Winds".


Entered at Thu Jan 22 09:17:27 CET 2015 from (58.104.11.29)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

If you follow the link and type in 'Band' there are some pictures of posters I haven't seen before.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 01:44:04 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Visions

Kevin J: " Wiggle, Wiggle" - you got me. X-rated: You know it when you see it. Just some fun. Here's food for thought. Does everything have to be "Visions of Johanna"? (he said, tongue-in-cheek)


Entered at Thu Jan 22 01:38:35 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: The real thing

Dylan revisionism: By the way, I think as Wallsend does, that Dylan had an idea. Look at the list of musicians that backed him. That was no hack job. That was an attempt at the real thing. Dylan's comments, as described by Howell's, is likely (as has been said) something akin to dislike of the media and interviews and 'hey, don't bug me,man. it's not important.)


Entered at Thu Jan 22 01:36:04 CET 2015 from (24.114.59.75)

Posted by:

Kevin J

JT.......just for the record, it might be a while before "Wiggle Wiggle"' finds its full redemption......If you do have a case, please make it quickly as I plan on being blasted in about an hour or two !


Entered at Thu Jan 22 01:34:54 CET 2015 from (58.104.8.1)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I get the impression that Dylan takes himself very seriously as a musician and find it hard to believe he would put stuff out that he didn't think was good. However, since he doesn't like the media I would not place much value on anything he tells a journalist. At the time of Self Portrait he could have just put out an official version of the the BTs. I think it is more likely he had an idea for Self Portrait but that it just didn't quite work. When it was criticised it was just easier to make light of it rather than trying to defend it.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 01:33:34 CET 2015 from (136.167.102.125)

Posted by:

Dave H

Kevin: Thanks for the quote. My memory did not serve me well about having written that, but I still agree with it, so that's a good sign!


Entered at Thu Jan 22 01:28:21 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: The Story Behind Self Portrait

If you read John Howells (The Story behind Self-Portrait) you get the Dylan revisionism of his various takes on Self-Portrait over the years. There are many. (its easily found with the use of the name John Howells etc.)


Entered at Thu Jan 22 01:13:00 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter v

I think there may be something in Self Portrait about deliberately creating a bootleg like compilation, but they actually recorded a lot of this stuff extremely well instrumentally, though quite a lot was overdubbed without his presence apparently. I reckon he had the basement tapes in mind, assumed everyone had a bootleg of that, so assembled covers of stuff he liked peppered with the four live ones. But he didn't have The Band.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 01:04:06 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Whole load

Flip. Glib. Didn't take the question too seriously. Might have been a great 2 sides carefully thought out.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 01:00:53 CET 2015 from (24.114.59.75)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: JT

From an interview with Kurt Loder, Rolling Stone Mag, 1984 - non Fog years - just for the record ......on the subject of Self Portrait:

KL: But why did you make it a double-album joke?

BD: Well, it wouldn't have held up as a single album - then it really would've been bad, you know. I mean, if you're gonna put a lot of crap on it, you might as well load it up!


Entered at Thu Jan 22 00:55:52 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Reactionary

So Dylan is said to have put out 'Self Portrait' to sabotage the bootleggers by putting out his own bootleg level album. So I have read just now in a number of places (likely all copying each other). It was the time of TMOQ et al.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 00:46:58 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Mea Culpa (again)

Peter: You are of course right about the company putting out an album not 'sanctioned' by Dylan according to the information out there on 'Dylan/A Fool Such As I'. I got it wrong. Sorry. As for sabotage re Self-Portrait, I'll have to look that one up. I don't quite remember him saying that. Maybe Kevin can save me the trouble and remind me where that is written.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 00:45:04 CET 2015 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Major Leagues

Kevin, if The Band were a sports team they would be the New York Yankees. They got to play with Joe DiMaggio. Even before Dylan they were living a charmed life. Young men traveling up and down the east coast playing music. Spending the summer on the Jersey Shore. Doesn't really sound tragic does it.?After Dylan it was first class all the way. Signing with Capital records. You know who else was on Capital Records? The Beatles and Frank Sinatra. Big time. Unbelievable career. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Grammy Hall of Fame. I don't know why you feel they've been overlooked.

As far as archival releases didn't Sebastion say that was his team? Maybe he ought to check out what Springsteen's people are doing with his archival shows. It shouldn't take years to release this stuff and you don't have to over charge everything.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 00:33:17 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: All Along The Watchtower

Here they are! The Persuasions on YouTube doing All Along The Watchtower. Like A Rolling Stone is also on there.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 00:27:54 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Matters Dylan

I picked up "Knocking on Bob's Door" by The Persuasions at the weekend … half price. It's a couple of years old. A cappella takes on Bob's best known songs, including When I Paint My Masterpiece and You Ain't Goin' Nowhere, Any single track is a lot of fun, but rolled together they become relentless. It's the sort of thing Big Daddy did much better.

Garcia also says that both he and Dylan thought Dylan & The Dead showed both parties at a low point. He was perplexed they released it.

"Dylan" (aka A Fool Such As I) was surely Columbia / CBS sabotaging Dylan, not him doing anything. Isn't that what he said? It was a reaction to Planet Waves coming out with Asylum, with the implied threat that they could flood the market with, ahem, sub-standard Dylan. The CD is rare. I have one as well as an LP, I'm pleased to say. And I really like The Ballad of Ira Hayes.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 00:13:07 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: When I paint my masterpiece

Bill M: Lovely! I think Dylan was an Old Master and a cubist, all rolled into one.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 00:09:31 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Saving 'Saved'

We've discussed 'Saved'. I'm somewhat pro-Saved though I had my problems with it in 1980. I did like 'Slow Train Coming' and found 'Saved' somewhat over the top. I don't have problems so much with it anymore. I can understand why some do. When one feels so strongly about something, that feeling is hard to shake. I get that. In fact, based on Bill M's suggestion, I am exploring Tim Drummond material , having ordered 'Saved' by the All Star group he mentioned.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 00:04:47 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Gonna Change My Way of Thinking

His denunciation is itself hard to believe. As you know, Kevin J, we never know where Mr. Dylan was coming from especially in those days. He was more grounded by that time but I don't think one ever knew where he was coming from. Yes, I think he did say something to that effect, but I'm not sure if it was about this particular material or about the 'Dylan' album which was put out just to satisfy the record company and fulfill his obligation for an album before the switch. Anyway, it is somewhat of a moot point and what I really wanted to shine on a light on is the way 4 decades can change how we look at things. Maybe that's a good thing. To think the same way about everything can get unbelievably boring.


Entered at Thu Jan 22 00:00:22 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Well, I loved Self Portrait on release. Apart from Like A Rolling Stone, really. I thought it was (in the words of Jefferson Airplane around that time) “share a little joke with the world” and I found it warm, and I found it tongue-in-cheek, but not an act of sabotage. “Another Self Portrait” is both a vastly better mix, and in the different tracks, an even better album. Dylan always relished a raised finger to his audience, and I went with it on Another Side and Bringing It All Back Home, and on John Wesley Harding, then Nashville Skyline and Self Portrait. I was fine with all of it … until Saved … then I found myself as deeply offended as others had been earlier. And still am.

UNCUT has a good ancient Jerry Garcia interview where he describes meeting Dylan to discuss mixes of Dylan and The Dead, and found the equipment set up to discuss the mix at Bob’s home consisted of a $39 ghetto blaster and a cassette. I do know that singles were always tested on cheap car radios to see how they sounded, but not live albums.


Entered at Wed Jan 21 23:41:59 CET 2015 from (24.114.59.75)

Posted by:

Kevin J

JT.....I don't quite follow......Bob did denounce the record as an act of sabotage - did he not ? I didn't believe it either and agree with Dave's take....


Entered at Wed Jan 21 23:23:30 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.154)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: full marks for honesty?

I'm thinking that it was titled "Self Portrait" for a reason, that almost all of us have some flaws to offset our numerous fine qualities, and that Dylan has always been more of a cubist than an old master.


Entered at Wed Jan 21 23:22:23 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Dylan acquiesces? I don't think so.

The 'world' gave Dylan negative input for many years and he seemingly couldn't have cared less, Kevin. Its hard to believe that suddenly now he is so moved that he denounces his record as an act of sabotage. (Maybe the 'A Fool Such As I/Dylan 1973 concoction (many outtakes from 1970 - still with a few good songs, but not this Self Portrait ). I prefer the argument that he favoured many performers of the past and his confreres and so he put out an album with many covers (again ahead of his time as usual since covers gradually became 'the thing' for albums over the next 10 years and remain well-accepted now. Again, as for the original material, though sparse, I liked it then and I like it now.


Entered at Wed Jan 21 23:09:01 CET 2015 from (24.114.59.75)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Dave H

JT.........I've been looking back to 2013 to read what folks here were saying about "Another Self Portrait" and came across this from Dave H which offers an astute take on the confusion surrounding the original album's release - including that of BD himself:

"But it seems to me that we know a lot about Dylan today that Marcus and his buddies didn't know in 1969-70, especially from his memoir and radio show. For example, we know that Dylan has a non-ironic love for a lot of mid-century pop, even stuff with a bit of a corny or schmaltzy side. We also know that the standard, Rolling Stone-approved account of Dylan's "going electric," supposedly summed up by "Positively 4th Street" and the (fictional) image of Pete Seeger trying to cut the electrical cables at Newport with an axe, is a fairly serious oversimplification, and that Dylan retained a great deal of affection for the people and music of the '60s Greenwich Village scene, including for a lot of strummy singer-songwriters who were never half as hip as he was: Gordon Lightfoot, Tom Paxton, Eric Andersen, John Prine.

......That doesn't make the album a good one--I do think he was fatally confused about what he wanted to do artistically, as the new Bootleg Series seems to confirm--but I think there was something there that was genuine. But once the world rejected it, he couldn't really admit any of that, and so retreated into this party line about the album being an intentional sabotage--a claim that I find sort of hard to believe."


Entered at Wed Jan 21 22:38:34 CET 2015 from (58.104.8.1)

Posted by:

Wallsend

For me Another Self Portrait was a revelation. When I heard the original Self Portrait, it wasn't clear to me what Dylan was trying to say. If I was a person inclined to speculation, I might guess that Dylan didn't know himself. The original Self Portrait should't have been reviled. I am not sure it was outside the music press, it probably just wasn't played all that much. The songs on the original Self Portrait are like some fragments from a jigsaw. On the original release it is hard to know what they are. Now we have the whole picture we can see where they fit in. I always thought Dylan's performance of Wild Mountain Thyme at IOW was fantastic. Looking at what is on Another Self Portrait, you can understand why he performed it. Another Self Portrait also makes perfect sense in terms what's on the BTs. Much as I love our guys, Dylan's talent is on a whole different level.


Entered at Wed Jan 21 22:12:48 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.152)

Posted by:

Bill M

Kevin J: thanks for th Walter Rossi link. I must've mentioned that I caught him twice in the T-dot. In '70 at the Ex Bandshell when Luke and the Apostles opened for Mashmakhan and in about '80 at the ElMo (probably touring "Six Strings"). Surprisingly humble guy; I remember that his first words when he hit the stage were to correct DJ Bob Mackowicz, who'd introduced his as "the best guitarist in Canada".


Entered at Wed Jan 21 22:01:07 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Covers?

I agree with your comment that it lacked a coherent vision. But it was trashed and that was just wrong. There were many good performances on that album and though it was not in line with what came before, it was still good in my view. Doing covers may have been in the minds of the followers and adherents, 'beneath Mr. Dylan'. The new material was not highly regarded either. As for the comment regarding adding the concert, I think the Dylan recorded material in the studio with additions does improve the vision of the album, but not so much that it goes from reviled to highly regarded. The material was good then and it is good now in my view.


Entered at Wed Jan 21 21:43:38 CET 2015 from (58.104.8.1)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I think if the original Self Portrait had been similar to Another Self Portrait with a decent quality Isle of Wight concert on one disc and Another Self Portrait versions of the songs on the other, it would have been highly regarded. The original Self Portrait lacked a coherent vision.


Entered at Wed Jan 21 21:17:06 CET 2015 from (24.114.59.75)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Musta Notta Gotta Lotta

Peter V.......Thank you. I had not seen that clip from Simon Felice. Stunning. He really is something special. Had his career been launched in the early 70's during the heights of the singer-songwriter era with the heavy muscle of a record company behind him, there is no doubts as to how bright his stardom would have been. Then again, maybe we are all better off to have him around now enjoying a more intimate performing and recording career...........and thanks to you and others here for staying on the SF support mode.......I had purchased his solo material a long time back but as is often the case with me, I purchase from iTunes and then have songs sitting around for a good while before actually listening......Travel is great because it allows for long periods on planes or trains where I can just catch up on music......finally got to - really got to - L.Cohen's "Ten New Songs". A Beautiful album.

Bob F: Being a fan of The Band is bit like being a fan of a sports team where no matter how hard you try and even though deep down you know it makes no sense, there is always that lingering feeling that the referee is out to get your side ! In The Band's case, the referee is everybody - the Biff's and Betty's who have never even heard of the band, the rock press that regularily seems to forget them and the Dylan Bootleg Curators that undervalue them....................I think that the Bob Dylan/The Band "Isle of Wight" concert as beautifully restored as it was should have been released as a seperate entity and not as just part of a bonus add-on to "Another Self Portrait".........and "complete" for the BT's should have meant "complete" when we know the songs were there.

IOW Concert: Big voice Bob in his short hair and white suit just two weeks after the Woodstock concert with Syd Barrett and Keith Richards and Clapton and The Beatles and Jane Fonda in the audience ( talk about the power to pull ! ) really must have been a shock to many. A gas all these years later reading up on this. All new to me!


Entered at Wed Jan 21 20:54:15 CET 2015 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: What is this ....?

Is it not amazing to anyone else that Self Portrait has gone from reviled (in 1970) to revered currently. For the record, I always liked the record from the day I bought it at a flea market (new sealed in the 'low price' bin because it couldn't be sold at regular price in the regular store back then). How this happens is enigmatic, but like all Dylan, anything new is criticized and then it slowly becomes lauded. It has been that way since way back then and will continue as 'Sinatra' comes out. Some have already said in their own way "What is this ....?". Oh well, too each his/her own. Some people just cannot tolerate a change. Its like a change in their diet. It just doesn't go down easy.


Entered at Wed Jan 21 15:35:37 CET 2015 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Questions, Questions

Kevin, welcome back. So you have a gentle boycott of The Basement Tapes because you want more Band music? You do realize the members of the Band perform on every track? If these great Band tracks from the basement exist why do you think the 1975 release used Band songs that weren't from the basement time period? Do you really think Dylan would have cared if Band solo songs were included in the box this time around? Could it be The Band Team are saving these songs for their own archival release around 2030?


Entered at Wed Jan 21 01:56:06 CET 2015 from (65.93.118.203)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Good to see you back, Kevin.


Entered at Wed Jan 21 01:20:42 CET 2015 from (99.140.174.241)

Posted by:

Adam

Like Kevin, I also say to Jan: belated condolences for your father.

Recently someone posted about The Band outtake jams at Shangri La Studios, March 1976. Man, they really weren't kidding. There's an Eric Clapton boot "From Paradise To Shangri La". It has Levon singing a romping country blues "Steppin' Out" (the same one they did later in the '80s), and Rick leading the gospel "Hard Times" (Ray song that RM did in the '80s). BUT, the real kicker here is that the boot contains, by my count, FOUR attempts by Richard Manuel at singing amazing freaking vocals on Ray Charles' "What Would I Do Without You", a single from 1956. Freakin' amazing. I'm gonna throw that take in of Richard singing with Clapton, Little Walter's "Last Night" (found on the No Reason To Cry CD), and put this in the collection.


Entered at Tue Jan 20 23:58:39 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Good to see you back, Kevin. The link is one you may have missed in your absence … Simone Felice's website. Scroll down to Bye Bye Palenville, Live in London, in December. Just him and Anna Mitchell, I assume recorded before a gig. Sublime focussed performance.


Entered at Tue Jan 20 22:32:31 CET 2015 from (24.114.49.170)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Some thoughts after being away for awhile.....

* Jan.....Belated thoughts for your Dad. I lost my Dad in 2007 and rare that a day goes by that I don't think of him.

* Bill M: the above link is for you.

* Bob F: More of a gentle boycott than a banning ! I was just a little put off by aspects of the BT release.......not having The Band stuff while calling it "complete" and the overwhelming position of the review community that this was Bob's education of 4 hillbillies...... never mind that Rick Danko had been singing/meeting/living Country music since he was 5 years old and that Richard, Robbie and Garth knew a thing or two as well.

* Bob Dylan's Another Self Portrait: A year late but oh what a release. A month of travelling and played this at every step and stop along the way.

* Most Played songs other than Bob Dylan while away: Donald Fagen "Slinky Thing".....play it 3 times and you will be completely knocked out by 10 different things. Brilliant.........and right up there with this was Simon Felice's "The Morning That I Get To Hell"

* Mike Nomad: Thank you for the kind words.....I now kind of regret nixing a piece I had written here in support of the leader of North Korea.....Not so much really in support of him but more rather a condemnation of what seemed like the climax of the pre-Christmas story where it seemed every article written in just about every paper in USA and Canada was on board with the Whitehouse hosting a "movie night" to all celebrate and laugh along with a movie about the killing of a head of state.........anyhow, it all made some sense until I thought about people being starved to death.


Entered at Tue Jan 20 22:00:24 CET 2015 from (58.104.18.245)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Is this the library in question? If so perhaps we should suggest they construct a life-size diorama to commemorate the event.


Entered at Tue Jan 20 20:37:24 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

By April 3rd, Richmond it fell …

Their combined research efforts at Woodstock Library were pretty poor. Missed the fall of Richmond by 5 weeks.


Entered at Tue Jan 20 19:59:23 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

btw, Bill M, the Frazier Mohawk mention earned a chuckle. Those were the days when you could just change your name to get the money folks off your back.


Entered at Tue Jan 20 19:40:10 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: kind of a drag

I've always heard that Levon drove Robbie to the library, but I guess everybody's been too squeamish to state the truth - that he dragged Robbie. I prefer to think that Robbie was in a cart, or at least on a skateboard, but even then it seems a harsh way to treat the principal writer.

I suppose another possibility would be to not take the words literally. Maybe Levon drove Robbie to the library in the same way that certain people have driven other people to drink: "Okay okay Lee, I'll go to the friggin' library and look it up!"


Entered at Tue Jan 20 19:30:02 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Levon never said he located books for RR to read. He said he remembered "taking him to the library."


Entered at Tue Jan 20 19:09:28 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Thanks for pointing out the comments section, Lisa. I hadn’t clicked on that. Yet more ammunition. If you are relying on retail or internet sales, basically you're screwed. YouTube got all your money.

It’s uneven in spread to a degree with live performance. For example, London Theatre is doing well – sell out houses virtually every time. We stayed over on Saturday and my son was seeking tickets for a musical, but couldn’t find any last-minute seats. Performance works fine in the capital at the top level, but then we go to see dance at Poole and it’s 25% full. From Southampton (35 miles away), they e-mailed us at 2 pm offering tickets that night at half price. We went, Fantastic play, only 10% full. Then there’s a shed behind a pub near us and this month they have Garland Jeffries, (and we are already booked to see a play in London). A couple of years ago they had Jefferson Starship. People are working for pennies.


Entered at Tue Jan 20 18:30:50 CET 2015 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Sadavid's posts

I heard that little story yesterday on CBC. So Levon "dragged" an (unwilling?) Robbie to the library, and insisted on "due respect"? Hmmm ...

Re starving artists - if you read the comments below that article you can find the reasons for this deplorable situation. I read as much as I could stand. It's hard to know what to say. The only light at the end of the tunnel is that, like many things in life, the pendulum swings first one way, then the other. Surely this particular pendulum can't swing much further ... cold comfort to all the people who try to make a living in the arts.

It's happening all over, in all the arts - funding cut, orchestras shut down, audiences disappearing. Some blame cuts in school arts programs, dumbing down of the upcoming generation due to all the various internet distractions, etc. It leads to ever desperate measures to attract audiences, and some of what has happened particularly in Europe to try to put bottoms in seats under the guise of "Regietheatre" is downright awful. It seems the world is changing faster than anyone can keep up with ... or do we just feel this way because we're older, and remember better times?


Entered at Tue Jan 20 15:07:18 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.237)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: the library story again

"Hear the incredible story of this classic Band track by hitting the Play button" halfway down the page.


Entered at Tue Jan 20 01:52:49 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Web: My link

Subject: Baez/Dylan - Pirate Looks At Forty

It may not be the best version but I rather like it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drRNZnpu7IA

I seem to think the concert was during the years that Dylan was sailing his schooner "Water Pearl" around the West Indies.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 23:39:06 CET 2015 from (24.199.71.83)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Jeff, sad to hear about Popsy Dixon. RIP, and thanks for the heads-up.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 22:23:27 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest
Web: My link

Subject: Pirates

Yes I am a pirate ....two hundred years to late.

The cannons don't thunder there's nothing to plunder

I'm an over forty victim of fate....arriving too late

Arriving to late.

I was just down on a pirate ship a couple days ago.

Did any one else notice on the news (comes up on my computer) the latest print of Charlie Hebdo, (their usual print is 30,000). They had to print some where between 3 to 5 million to accommodate the popularity of the issue.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 21:44:25 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Good article on creative rights. Thanks.

The Waterboys decision is weird. I think they did the same the other way around with The Decembrists a few years ago. Yes, if you've heard a song a few times, you definitely get more out of it seeing it live. A daft choice. Beautiful Now is a great one too. The Girl Who Slept for Scotland is another to sample (sounds strangely like Prefab Sprout in bits!). And Long Strange Golden Road … it is all all good.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 21:07:25 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Mesmerized Homesick Blues

Just a small thing... I was in Ditch Records looking at vinyl Saturday and they have a great sound system. On comes "Bringing It All Back Home" from SHB all the way through. I hadn't listened to it in a while. I was overcome with I don't know what good to say but I couldn't leave even when I was done. I finally apologized to the store clerk and said I knew it was impolite to leave while Mr. Dylan was singing at his best.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 20:42:43 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.237)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: pirates starve artists

Why your life seems poorer lately . . . .


Entered at Mon Jan 19 20:14:38 CET 2015 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: The Waterboys

Peter, they've pushed back The Waterboys release on this side until April to coincide with their North America tour. That reasoning always puzzles me. Why not release the record a few months ahead so when you perform the audience is some what familiar with the new material. Also you would get some airplay when the record is released and again when you hit town. At this point, in America anyway The Waterboys audience is very specific.

Check out the song 'Beautiful Now'. That's actually a James Maddock song that Mike Scott rewrote. It's great but the original James Maddock version is even better or it could be I'm more use to it. Love The Waterboys.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 19:43:42 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

Re Tim Drummond, I forgot all about his involvement in an unjustly forgotten CD, "Saved" by the Northernblues Gospel Allstars - see link. Not only did he have a hand in writing the title song with Bob Dylan, he also plays on all the other songs. Also involved were singers Danny Brooks and John Finley and keyboardist Michael Fonfara. The project was put together by Frazier Mohawk, who'd put together Rhinoceros for Electra in the late '60s (hence the involvement of Finley and Fonfara), and most likely also worked with Dallas Taylor when Dallas was in another Electra group of the day, Clear Light.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 17:11:33 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Decemberists, Waterboys

Tim Drummond. Dallas Taylor. When I open Uncut or Record Collector, the obituaries occupy more space in every issue. RIP.

Today is a good day for new releases … The Waterboys "Modern Blues" and Decemberists "What A Terrible World What A Beautiful World." I had the singles from both earlier, and both are roughly the same genre. Thing is, I put The Waterboys on first and can't take it off. Sample November Tale (the single) and I Can See Elvis, or just get it. You will like it.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 17:10:36 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: 2+2=4 most of the time

Norm: Logic: an affliction I've had since I was a kid. Hard to apologize for it but I'll try.

Peter: I know that radio show and have listened to it many times. It is excellent. Dylan was doing a show and he was a show and seriousness was not in the cards, especially about an ordinary life in Minnesota. Travelling and carnivals were much more interesting. It reminds me of that interview he gave when he said something like "Well, what do you want me to say? etc"


Entered at Mon Jan 19 17:07:12 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Dallas Taylor

The passing of Dallas Taylor should not go unnoticed here. Announced yesterday apparently by his wife. Repeated in the news. Drummer with CSNY, Stills, Manassas. I always thought of CSNY as a 6 man band for the 2 first albums. Mortality...can't live with it, can't live without it.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 12:57:11 CET 2015 from (122.162.79.138)

Posted by:

Jazz Home

Web: My link

Subject: Builders in Townsville - Jazzhomes.com.au

The builders in Townsville comprehend the needs and emotions of the people as well as they also know that a person wants to provide a better and relaxed lifestyle to his or her close relatives via Jazz Homes. Read more...http://www.jazzhomes.com.au/


Entered at Mon Jan 19 11:11:51 CET 2015 from (86.183.247.169)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: long hair

Not too much of a spoiler JQ. I never thought that Dylan really talked to the bearded lady.

The 'geek' in the song distorted my meaning of the song because of the meaning of the word in The UK.

But, the long hair story could be true and related to the song. But there again, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't true.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 10:44:22 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Jerry, it’s the difference between “exaggerating” and “bullshitting.” Dylan’s carnival claim isn’t hearsay – it’s recorded on the “Folksinger’s Choice” radio show (LINKED), where he’s interviewed by Cynthia Gooding in 1962 at the start of his career. He claims to have worked in a carnival for SIX YEARS and toured all over. The radio CD has been readily available in Britain for several years. It’s worth getting as he does eleven songs live, including Smokestack Lightning, Baby Please Don’t Go and Stealin’ Stealin’ so really shows the blues roots. He's having fun creating a life story as he chats between songs.

Thinking about it, I could make the “exaggerated” one. When I was 17, I spent the summer selling ice cream on the beach. The season ended, and I was due to go to college three weeks later. My ice cream and coffee kiosk was next door to “Happyland” a kid’s ride area with carousels and stuff. The carousel would go up to about 12 years old – it wasn’t a big one, but not a baby one either. I used to serve the proprietor and his wife with coffee three times a day. When I said I had nothing to do for three weeks, he said he stayed open longer than the ice cream kiosk, and offered me a week’s work to the end of his season. So I learned how to walk round the moving carousel with a bag taking money. I wouldn’t claim I’d worked a carnival maybe, but I could say I’d worked on the carousel.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 07:37:35 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Sorry boys

Rockin Chair and Norbert, I try to express myself better next time. No hard feelings from my side.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 06:15:34 CET 2015 from (67.84.78.34)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: RIP

Popsy Dixon & Dallas Taylor have passed in the last few days. Tim Drummond a week or so ago. Getting more & more musical up above, less so down here.


Entered at Mon Jan 19 02:33:49 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: And then..............

Jerry!......quit being so gawd damn logical. I had also meant to add. We laid down early one evening watching some movie, (that we finally found not in Spanish). I was kinda snoozing so I don't remember the flick, but all of a sudden I hear a song, (which I also forget) but I realize, that's Dylan. So the thought I had was. So often you hear one of Bob's tunes in a movie soundtrack. I wondered, as well as his income from air play and concerts, I wonder how much he makes from his songs in movies and does he get paid every time a movie is shown?


Entered at Mon Jan 19 01:47:09 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: 'Two bits a shot'

I never knew what to make of the tales that are quoted to Dylan. Conversations between 2 people and even what is written can be altered, misinterpreted or otherwise interpreted. I never worried too much about any of it. He had been telling stories in song so why not describing his life. Who knows. I worked as a busboy for about 48 hours when I was a kid. Maybe he did work a carnival for a short time. Who knows. And who knows where people go and what they do. He is said to have travelled all kinds of places and maybe he did and maybe he didn't. You know how stories grow over time. And when you say something and then don't deny it, it becomes reality. Some major politicians have taken this approach to heart and as my beloved says, omission is still untruth. I take everything I read with at least one grain. Anyway,' life is a carnival' and we are on the rotating carousel. As you can see, if they are trespasses, and I don't think they are, I am sure he is forgiven by most.


Entered at Sun Jan 18 22:40:16 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Very Thin Man

On those 1962 radio broadcasts, Dylan claimed to have worked in carnivals- total bullshit of course.


Entered at Sun Jan 18 21:29:17 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Back to Reality!

Back to Courtenay getting ready to go to work. Although it's pretty warm here and sunny for a while this morning, it is not!...lying on the beach in Banderas Bay drinking a couple of pink panthers and eating raw oysters on the half shell with hot sauce and lime.

Coming home on the plane last night, as I couldn't see out the way I liked to, I watched some of a movie. I'm sure some of you may have seen, as I haven't watched many of these before. "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes." The hero gets the hydro power going, and all over the city lights are coming on, at gas stations etc. A radio station fires up and what starts playing??....."The Weight" the original too. I started to laugh out loud, to the stares of a few who probably thought I was loosing it.

Norbert, some times it's hard to follow the thinking of that crazed senior citizen Scandanavian, who thought himself qualified to use my name. I think he must be short of things to do some times.


Entered at Sun Jan 18 21:16:02 CET 2015 from (63.142.158.9)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Nightmare Alley - 1947

Tyrone Power starred in this film about carny life and (spoiler) ended up as the geek -


Entered at Sun Jan 18 20:44:44 CET 2015 from (31.51.184.193)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Ballad of a Thin Man

I'm reading the very good 'Time Out Of Mind The Lives of Bob Dylan' by the excellent Scottish journalist, Ian Bell. Would recommend it. I quote:

'In Jacksonville, Florida, on 13 December, 1978, his preface to Ballad of a Thin Man became an elaborate reworking of vintage Dylan Hokum. It was that or a comic parable on the relationship between an embattled performing artist and his audience.

'The carninvals [they} used to have in the '50s, every carnival used to have a geek. Do you know what a geek is? A geek is a man that eats a live chicken, right before your eyes. He bites the head off, eats that. Then he goes ahead, eats the heart, drinks up the blood, sweeps up all the feathers with a broom. In them days, it cost a quarter to see him...Anyway. The geek pretty much kept to himself most of the time. Nobody never did get too tight with the geek.

But one day I was having breakfast with the bearded lady and she says, 'Stay away from that man.' I say, 'Why?' She says, 'Because he looks at everybody else in the world as freaky except him. He thinks he's just earning a living, and what he is doing is pretty straight...'

'The singer then proceeded to claim that being stared at on the streets of Nashville for long hair in about 1964 had reminded of him of the geek and inspired the song.'


Entered at Sun Jan 18 18:52:57 CET 2015 from (87.152.120.121)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Germany
Web: My link

Northwestcoaster from Finland I liked Ilkka better, seems you are becoming a bitter man. Look up and cheer up, life’s too short.


Entered at Sun Jan 18 13:10:39 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: The famous Band picture & Norbert

Sigmund Freud said: "There is nothing more serious than a joke." That's why I have always taken Norbert's posts seriously. I can still remember when this currently German based Webseitenfuhrer manipulated the famous Band pic by removing the face of .... eerrr ... I don't say of whom in a true Goebbels spirit. It caused a strong reaction from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. Maybe not the greatest moment of the history of the gb but it surely was FUN ... no, I mean a serious moment.


Entered at Sun Jan 18 02:23:38 CET 2015 from (2.216.229.225)

Posted by:

Maria

Location: Uk

Subject: Tim

So sad to hear of Tim & noticed all the regular posters seem to ignore. Sad days


Entered at Sat Jan 17 21:36:23 CET 2015 from (87.152.120.121)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Germany
Web: My link

Subject: How the famous Band picture was made

Landy: ”Please don’t laugh! just look dark....”

Landy: “Garth!”

.... klick ....

Landy: “Ooh Garth”


Entered at Sat Jan 17 18:27:10 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Is Mick Satisfied?


Entered at Sat Jan 17 01:08:30 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter v

Subject: The Thin Man

In the first film, 1934, the thin man if the title was the murder victim, not William Powell's detective, but such was the identification that Powell became the thin man in the sequel.

A man called Alias?


Entered at Fri Jan 16 21:57:15 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Lean and mean

Bill M: I agree. Always thought Dylan=Thin Man.


Entered at Fri Jan 16 21:34:58 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: BoaTMan

I hadn't really thought it through when I quipped the other day about Dylan himself being the "Thin Man", but after reconsidering the lyrics, I have to say, Why not - makes as much sense, if not more, than other theories on offer. It's also interesting that some of the more unusual characters in the song seem to have resurfaced in '70s BT iconography.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 23:29:42 CET 2015 from (99.148.157.149)

Posted by:

Zavadka

Subject: Ballad Of A Thin Man

Ballad Of A Thin Man may have been the perfect epilogue to Eric Clapton's Biography.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 22:03:19 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: Could be worse: you could have been named after a dog. Prince is the best example that I can think of among rockers, though Flea suggests an affinity. There are probably others. Reminds me of the looks on Frasier and Niles Crane's faces when they were reading their mother's work log and realised that they'd been named after her lab rats.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 22:02:00 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.237)

Posted by:

sadavid

Subject: chienne de vie

Peter V: I had the same thought . . . but it could be that the pooch was named after Alvin Tostig's son . . . .
In any case, our local paper's headline writer came up with this tortured effort: "Puppy named Levon's trip to Calgary not part of family plan."


Entered at Thu Jan 15 21:25:30 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: To be the Wild Rover

I'm not sure that I'd like a dog being named after me.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 21:17:26 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Eat The Document

Absolutely right, PSB. Loose language on my part. I meant here in Britain and, in a sense, it was not even a "public" showing here, in that one had to be a "conventioneer" (?) to attend.

There were poor quality videos of EAT THE DOCUMENT circulating anongst collectors in the early days but then better quality versions began to emerge. I had a hand in obtaining one of those but I cannot reveal how that came about.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 19:50:02 CET 2015 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: BARK

Bill M: If BARK had been on that flight, the plot would have thickened. A 'biting' comment made with a toothy smile.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 17:15:16 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

JT: Good point. One of the members of Three Dog Night was from Calgary, so maybe it was a canine plot to visit him?


Entered at Thu Jan 15 17:10:54 CET 2015 from (72.78.40.161)

Posted by:

PSB

Location: City of Brotherly Love

Subject: Eat The Document

Ian,

The first public showing of "Eat The Document" wasn't at a Dylan convention. It was at the New York Academy of Music, February 8, 1971.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 16:04:34 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: 3 Dog Night

Reading the article, assuming they flew in the late hours, this was a Three Dog Night. (early in Victoria BC but slightly humorous).


Entered at Thu Jan 15 15:59:52 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: Where're you taking this rock and roll thing, Bob?

Peter V: I suspect that the clueless Mr Jones was the male half of the famous Joneses, the ones others try keeping up with. In other words, trendsetters.

Or, in other other words, possibly even himself, the slight guy at the front of the stage.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 14:55:06 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.237)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: "The dog overflew"

. . . and in other news . . . .


Entered at Thu Jan 15 11:23:33 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Don't let the Jones's get you down

Mr Jones … I doubt that Bob would have used the real name and had a single target in mind. Jeffrey Jones who hassled Dylan at Newport thought it was him, and Max Jones came in the frame because of an aside Dylan made about the event that spawned it happening in England. But who would believe comments Bob makes in press conferences? He was always sending them up. Apparently Brian Jones had a paranoid fear that it was him (with the pencil in his hand being the male member rather than a drawing implement). I don’t think Paul Jones was ever mentioned, in spite of Manfred Mann’s cover of With God On Our Side.

I’ve always assumed “journalists as a type” and that Mr Jones was chosen because it’s the second most common surname in English (at least in Britain). You wouldn’t choose the most common, Smith, because it’s the classic “fake name” … as when unmarried couples checked into hotels as Mr & Mrs Smith in the 60s. We had married friends called Smith who said they got fed up of desk clerks winking as they checked them in to hotels. When asked their names they ended up saying "Mrs and Mrs Smith. Really."

I had a quick google to place Dylan meeting the Stones, but got distracted by Marianne Faithful. She tells great stories, such as rejecting Bob’s advances in favour of Gene Pitney. I reckon she enjoys that “But who was the best lover?” question, because her answer is “Keith Richards.” A little dig at Sir Mick after all these years.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 10:47:55 CET 2015 from (86.169.200.207)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Lights of Pittsburgh

A great post of a great trip Ian. But did the lights of Pittsburgh match the lights of the Clyde Valley with Ben Lomond and other mountains in the background from Paisley Braes. Was in Foxbar yesterday.

My biggest rock trip was going to see Richard's grave, memorial bench and star in Stratford.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 02:56:30 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ian, Friday October 9, 1992. Pittsburgh Pirates versus the Atlanta Braves, Game 3 of the 1992 National League Championship Series at Three Rivers Stadium to determine who would play in the World Series. The Pirates won that night but Atlanta took the series in seven games. Dylan played the AJ Palumbo Theater that night.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 01:55:02 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Pittsburgh and NYC in 1992

I’m obviously in a nostalgic mood this evening and Chris Charlesworth’s report on the Clapton concert in Pittsburgh and mention of the Three Rivers Stadium brought back some memories.

In October 1992, a few of us Brits went across for the Bob Dylan 30th Anniversary “bash” at Madison Square Garden. We decided to “do” Dylan’s four preceding shows, too, so flew to Pittsburgh for the first of these. It was the day of the concert and the plane was delayed but we weren’t too worried as drummer Ian Wallace was on the flight. One of our number managed to persuade the US customs etc officials to hurry us through. It really was a case of, “(We) come into Pittsburgh at six thirty flat”. We dropped our stuff at a nearby motel and took a couple of cabs to the show, along the highway that goes through a tunnel just before downtown. By now it was dark and, as we emerged from the tunnel, we could suddenly see the Three Rivers Stadium, very brightly lit up across the river – quite a stunning sight. There was apparently a (big?) game on that night and it is probably because it was a so unexpected a picture that I can see it still.

When we got to New York, I still hadn’t got a ticket but a contact had said he’d get one for me. A phone call led me to the Royal Righa Hotel to pick up the ticket. It was face price, not free, but at least I didn’t have to pay the “street” price. In the lift (elevator) coming down, I got to talk to Harvey Goldsmith and, seeing some folk I knew in the bar, went across only to find they were talking to Chrissie Hynde (the second time I’d met her in a hotel bar with some other Dylan “nuts” but the previous time was 8 years earlier). Anyway, I do not know how my friend got the ticket but it came in a “Madison Square Garden” envelope with my name in the “Print Guest Name” box and in the “left by” box is written “BD”! I still have it, of course.


Entered at Thu Jan 15 01:17:48 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Bob Dylan and Max Jones

I doubt that Dylan aimed Ballad of a Thin Man at Max Jones, as the indications are that Dylan thought well of him. In December 1962, Dylan did go in search of Max at the MELODY MAKER offices but didn't get in - at least two names have been put forward as the person who gave Dylan the "bum's rush" that day. Bob Dawbarn claimed he was the culprit, though somebody else told me it was the general factotum at the offices whose name I forget. Anyway, one report said that Dylan was directed to Max's nearby watering hole - maybe - maybe not. Who suggested that Dylan contact Max? I don't know but Dylan's record producer at the time (John Hammond) had been a MELODY MAKER correspondent in the past and knew Max Jones - and Dylan had been in the recording studio with John Hammond just days before coming to London.

A couple of personal tales, if I may:

1. I attended the first public screening of EAT THE DOCUMENT at a Dylan convention years back. Afterwards, I was talking to Dylan biographer Robert Shelton and asked if that was Max Jones in one of the press conference scenes. Shelton replied that it was Max “in a rare sober moment” – which was both unkind and a bit rich, coming from him.

2. I have a friend who, many moons ago, worked for MELODY MAKER and, on a trip to London from the far north, I arranged to visit him at work. It was after normal hours and the offices were largely empty at the time and my friend, on the phone as I was directed in, motioned to me to sit in the chair at the desk opposite his. When he had finished the call, he turned to me and announced, “Ian, you are now sitting in Max Jones’ chair!”.


Entered at Wed Jan 14 09:31:27 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Bob Dylan & The Band

Thanks for the link to Chris Charlesworth's blog, which has had me happily reading for an hour. This link goes to the Bob Dylan section - notes on the BTs, great review of Madison Square Garden 1974, and scroll on to a "close encounter" with Dylan at a Rolling Stones concert. More evidence on the target of "Ballad of A Thin Man" perhaps?


Entered at Wed Jan 14 03:50:43 CET 2015 from (24.199.71.83)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Jed, re Rick's vocal turn -- is that the same "Hard Times" song Richard performed solo in the 80s (on Live at the Getaway, for instance)?


Entered at Wed Jan 14 02:54:23 CET 2015 from (58.104.9.129)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Just came across this review of a couple of Clapton shows from July 1974. The Band get a very brief mention as they were one the opening acts.


Entered at Wed Jan 14 02:01:06 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Much thanks so far!

Thanks Peter for the link-it identifies some of the singers.Thanks Wallsend for the two disc list and thanks Ian for the background on Dylan's songs.The story of what was going down in the studiio during those sessions must be something! Ricks's Hard Times vocal is kick ass.Robbie's listed-anyone know if he plays and if so,on what?


Entered at Wed Jan 14 00:58:56 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Clapton's birthday

"Adios Mi Corason" is "Spanish Is The Loving Tongue" (and anyway the word is "corazon").

Dylan has sung "The Water Is Wide" at many points in his career. It comes from one of the old Scottish ballads [and, incidentally, I'm just starting to read the book "Wayfaring Strangers" which might, in due course, mention this song].

Dylan had three goes at "Idiot Wind" that day.

Dylan also sang "Adelita", which I think is a Mexican song. He did it at the PLANET WAVES sessions, so maybe that's why he did it again this day. Years later, he did it once again on a charity telethon - strangely, a Jewish charity telethon, so I'm not quite sure why.

And Dylan was involved in "Big River", too, which he had done with The Hawks, of course, down in that basement. Dylan also did it as a duet with Johnny Cash during the NASHVILLE SKYLINE sessions and has also performed it a very few times live in concert but not for quite a while.


Entered at Tue Jan 13 23:20:44 CET 2015 from (58.104.9.129)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Link is to a two cd Clapton boot called From Paradise to Shangri-la which seems longer than the cds listed on this site.


Entered at Tue Jan 13 22:27:36 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Some of it is the bootleg "Happy Happy Birthday, Eric" (linked) but what CD2 is, I don't know.


Entered at Tue Jan 13 20:02:21 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Jon

I looked at the link.Unless I'm misunderstanding what I see the tracks listed there don't reflect what I'm listening to-2 full discs of outtakes,jams,very stoned and odd banter.At one point on disc 2 Van Morrison appears.Richard seems to sing on more than one track,Levon sings(?),but I'm truly lost and could benefit from lots of information!Now I hear Richard(sounding soulful and beautiful) and gorgeous harmonies(Rick and Levon?).Last night I thought I heard Robbie-it seems I was wrong-it's EC.Confused but loving this-I imagine that among us Dylan/Band enthusiasts there might be someone who can tell the story of these sessions.The songs (not all of the songs from the album are played I believe)from the album itself on the discs seem to be either poor versions off the album or from different sessions.


Entered at Tue Jan 13 19:41:11 CET 2015 from (74.203.77.122)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC
Web: My link

Subject: Re: The Shangri-La Studios tapes

Hi Jed, it sounds like a mix of some of the Clapton/Band session boots out there (click on link, scroll down to the Eric Clapton section at the bottom).
I've always been curious about that track sung by Richard... how is it?


Entered at Tue Jan 13 17:40:00 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Disc 2

Richard's singing What Would I Do,Levon and Rick banter,Garth,EC all very well heard on disc 2. Anyone have more background on this collection?


Entered at Tue Jan 13 14:09:15 CET 2015 from (69.247.53.202)

Posted by:

Claire

Web: My link

Subject: RIP Tim Drummond


Entered at Tue Jan 13 12:40:44 CET 2015 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: The Shangri-La Studios tapes

Yesterday I received two discs of this,the jams,outtakes,etc. from No Reason to Cry,the EC album done with members of The Band and Dylan.I listened to disc 1 and there were a number of Dylan sung songs in addition to Sign Language(which was on original album) including Idiot Wind,Adios Mi Corazon,The Water is Wide and others.Also some interesting Dylan and Manuel banter,and so far one song sung by Manuel.All members of The Band are listed as part of this group although who played or sang was unclear.Richards piano,drumming,Robbie's guitar,Ricks bass,Garth's organ seem to be in the mix,but unclear.Anyone know more about these sessions?


Entered at Tue Jan 13 00:41:34 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Testament of Youth

One for the film fans: Testament of Youth. We caught the preview in the new British Film Institute series with broadcasts to 300 cinemas, followed by director and cast Q & A.


Entered at Mon Jan 12 19:39:41 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

Here's a link to an Amazon listing of the Mark Miller book I mentioned last night, the full title of which is "Some Hustling This: Taking Jazz to the World, 1914-1929"

Peter V: Did you see Dunc's post about the Irish TLW? I thought there'd be dancing! - though I suppose the Scots in the audience were able to move their arms.


Entered at Mon Jan 12 17:16:51 CET 2015 from (195.93.21.35)

Posted by:

Ian W

Web: My link

Subject: Richmond and blues and jazz etc

Peter, you're probably thinking of Potters Music Shop in Richmond. I don't recall a branch in Kingston but it's possible.

There were quite a lot of folk, jazz, blues and beat clubs in Richmond and surrounding towns, most operating one or two nights a week. That area of south-west London was quite a "hot spot" for popular music for many years.

The link relates to an earlier post of mine and is a brief timeline of jazz, blues etc in Britain:

http://www.nationaljazzarchive.co.uk/timeline



Entered at Mon Jan 12 15:55:26 CET 2015 from (86.169.200.207)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: various

Enjoyed the last posts.

A couple of years ago, I went to see a group of Irish musicians play 'The Last Waltz' at the Pavilion in Glasgow. A great night. What I got from this is how great Robbie's songs are with an audience present. A Glasgow audience is not inhibited and it was great seeing everybody in the theatre apart from me dancing to'Ophelia'. But normally I wouldn't go anywhere than a local hostelry to see a tribute band.


Entered at Mon Jan 12 14:58:43 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Steve Miller Band

Latest Toppermost is Steve Miller Band (linked).

On 60s blues outlets, there was an incredible shop in Richmond and another in Kingston - both near enough to Eel Pie Island of course.


Entered at Mon Jan 12 14:56:48 CET 2015 from (195.93.21.35)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Jazz, blues records etc

In London, there were several specialist retailers back in the 1960s. Dobells in Charing Cross Road and Colletts on New Oxford Street come to mind. There was also a mail order place in south London by the name of Chris Wellard. You could buy some non-electric blues records from the shop at Cecil Sharp House, between Regent's Park and Camden Town (the home of the English Folk Dance and Song Society), I seem to recall.


Entered at Mon Jan 12 08:59:06 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Yer Blues

There were a lot of late 50s blues LPs and EPs, though many were on obscure labels like Topic and Jazz Collector. Pye has the claim to “Blues in the Mississippi Night” in 1957 which was Alan Lomax stuff. When London licensed Chess, they issued a Best of Muddy Waters in 1959. I’m trying to think of the 1959 or 1960 set reissued on CD with a sticker proclaiming it ws the one “All the British R&B originators had.” Except as the LP is hens’teeth rare, it’s either untrue or everybody who bought it hung onto it. Pye did a lot with Golden Guinea as well … there’s a Vanguard compilation on Golden Guinea. Much Pye International got reissued on Pye Golden Guinea. Even RCA did an Alexis Korner selected series of ‘Race EPs” in 1963. I’d say the “Blues Volume 1” and “2” were hugely influential on the 1964-1965 release generation, mainly because any decent secondhand record shop will either have them, or if not, will have had two or three pass through in the last year, while the earlier stuff is harder to find.

An old friend has a huge collection of early blues archive stuff. Name any blues song, and he’ll take you back to a 1950s predecessor, then to the 30s, then to the 1920s. Just yesterday, listening to Bo Weavil Jackson’s “Screaming High Yeller” from 1926 I noted “Sometimes I do, then again sometimes I don’t, sometimes I will, then again sometimes I won’t” which are of course repeated in Chuck Berry’s “Reelin’ and Rockin.’” With blues, never say “it was the first.”


Entered at Mon Jan 12 03:48:35 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.139)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ian W: Mark Miller's book "Some Hustling This" is a fascinating look at the explosion of jazz around the world in the Teens and Twenties of last century. Astounding really.


Entered at Mon Jan 12 03:32:42 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.154)

Posted by:

Bill M

JT; I didn't know the Stones roots of the Dimensions / Passing Fancy. I may soon learn more, as I've started reading one of my Xmas books, the autobiography of the first manager, Bernie Finkelstein. The last time I saw Bernie was at Jay Telfer's funeral, attended by all of the original guys (and Keith McKie).

The Ugly Ducklings also started out as pretty much a Stones band, and in fact played their first gig, at Cedarbrae Collegiate, as the Strolling Bones - not because they wanted to so much as the principal wouldn't let them use their drummer because he went to a different school, West Hill. But the Ducks were also big Hawks fans, and the b-side of the first record, "Nothin'", was John Hammond's arrangement of "I Can Tell" because Hammond's 45 of the song had Robbie on guitar.


Entered at Mon Jan 12 01:41:53 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: American popular music in Europe

There were similar LPs on the Pye Golden Guinea label, some with the same tracks as the LP you showed, Peter.

When Dylan first came to Britain in December 1962, he went back to the States with at least two blues LPs that he had obtained here. Somewhere, I have the details.

And European interest in jazz goes way, way back. I believe that the Original Dixieland Jazz Band played in London almost 100 years ago. There were specialist record shops in London back in those days, too (I seem vaguely to recall reading that several were also bicycle shops but I don't know why. MELODY MAKER started publication in the 1920s and its USA correspondent before WWII was US record producer John Hammond, who went on field trips down south in the USA, recorded well-known jazz musicians and was related, through marriage, to Benny Goodman, as I recall.


Entered at Mon Jan 12 00:33:37 CET 2015 from (58.104.5.239)

Posted by:

Wallsend

The recordings Big Bill Broonzy did in Europe in the 1950s are interesting. Instead of playing the stunning ragtime guitar of which he was capable he played a kind of 'folk' music representing himself as the embodiment of what we now call Americana. I guess he felt that was what his audience wanted.


Entered at Sun Jan 11 23:36:00 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Further to Wallsend, Chris Barber brought American blues singers over in the late 1950s - archive recordings on CD are fun, because they're backed by Chris Barber's (Trad) Jazz Band. So you get a bit of banjo and trombone - it works really. Blues was considered a sub-genre of jazz at the time.


Entered at Sun Jan 11 23:33:34 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Agree on the influence of the Stones (who were influenced by Alexis Korner and Cyril Davies of course). The Beatles came with an interest in American girl groups and early Motown, and of course Chuck Berry in late 62. And Buddy Holly, much loved at youth club in 1962 did Bo Diddley and Brown Eyed Handsome Man. Before I ever heard the Stones (Come On was mid 63), I was used to Zoot Money doing Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley and Ray Charles locally, and I’d seen bands like Johnny Kidd & The Pirates, but it was The Stones who helped introduce Muddy Waters, Slim Harpo, Jimmy Reed on the first album.

But also Pye International was the UK label to love in 1963 (they licensed Chess - Checker and started out pushing out the back catalogue), really as and before the Stones broke out … and that was Chuck Berry & Bo Diddley foremost, but then they did LPs like The Blues Volume 1 (SEE LINK for track list) & Volume 2 which are still superb compilations. I remember we looked at other stuff on the label because of Chuck and Bo. At the same time as the first Stones LP, John Lee Hooker had British hits with Dimples and Boom Boom. I bought both new.


Entered at Sun Jan 11 23:17:31 CET 2015 from (58.104.5.239)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Ian, you can take the European interest in American music much further back. My dad was a big fan of jazz in the 1930s and he lived in deepest Yorkshire. He didn't have the chance to see any of those musicians but he certainly had access to the music. I think it is incredibly interesting how music, and other forms of culture, takes on a whole new meaning when located in a different cultural context.


Entered at Sun Jan 11 22:11:06 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Before The Stones

I have absolutely no doubt about the contribution of the Stones in bringing r'n'b (and the blues in general) to a wider audience - especially in North America - back in the 1960s and did not seek to diminish this influence. In Europe, there had been an appreciation of this music well before the Stones came on the scene.

When at school around 1962-1963, older pupils were permitted the "privilege" of playing their own records in their classrooms at lunchtime. Coming from a less well-off district, I had neither a record player nor records but can remember the likes of Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley being played (the poppier end of r'n'b, perhaps) not to mention, as I recall, the jazzier end of the spectrum, too (Jimmy Witherspoon and Billie Holiday - the latter not really a blues singer but often regarded as such).

This was a school that produced two members of The Yardbirds (a year or two above me) and a member of Queen (in the year below) as well as, for a couple of years at this time, Murray Head. If there was a school group, it was The Others, who released a Bo Diddley cover as a single on a major label but I believe they broke up soon after.

A close friend at school kept encouraging me to come with him to Eel Pie Island to see the Rolling Stones but I never did. In fact, the one and only time I saw them live was at Green's Playhouse in Glasgow in the early 1970s.

However, it was relatively easily to catch what I might term the "real thing" in and around London. Many American r'n'b and country blues performers visited at that time and I saw quite a few of them live back then - from Muddy Waters to Sleepy John Estes. I do accept that the rise of the younger groups playing blues and r'n'b did help in this regard but would contend that there was a groundswell of interest prior to this. I can remember borrowing Paul Oliver's "Blues Fell This Morning" book from my local public library and I would estimate that this pre-dated my hearing of the Stones by some months.


Entered at Sun Jan 11 18:56:05 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: White Boy Blues

Funnily enough, I found quite a haul of blues 45s last week - Sonny Boy Williamson, Homesick James, Al King, Bo Weavil Jackson (unlistenable sound from 1926) and among them Cyril Davies & His Rhythm & Blues All Stars and John Mayall's Bluesbreakers. I've been playing them today and Cyril Davies acquits himself extremely well indeed. It was Preachin' The Blues / Sweet Mary which turns up much less often than Country Line Special, which I already had. Both 45s are Pye International R&B - which at that time was otherwise all classic Chess / Checker material. John Mayall sounds great too, but that's more familiar.

Link is Cyril Davies with Long John Baldry in 1963


Entered at Sun Jan 11 18:40:18 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Tribute to Blues/R&B by Stones

Ian. For me, aside from Chuck Berry and slightly Bo Diddley and a few American groups, I had absolutely NO IDEA that Robert Johnson or Howling Wolf or Elmore James or any other blues artists existed. I knew a lot about Dion and the Belmonts and the Dovells and Beachboys and many others by 1963. But the treasure of the blues was totally foreign to me. There was a station in Toronto that was beginning to play Sam and Dave and others by the earlier to mid-60s and we were beginning to learn about R&B. The Rolling Stones opened this door for me and I trust for many others. And what a door it was!


Entered at Sun Jan 11 18:33:19 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: The Stones and tribute bands

In a sense, you could say that the Rolling Stones themselves started out as tribute band, paying homage to the r'n'b performers and bands of the late 1940s and the the 1950s, particularly (but not solely) those on the Chess label.



Entered at Sun Jan 11 17:56:05 CET 2015 from (67.84.76.118)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete. The Weight is an offshoot band out of necessity and void. And successful because they are doing a tribute. In my humble opinion, they need a great singer. I know who they should call. And the funny thing is two of them know him well. And have worked with him. Easygoing, low maintenance, professional, respected by heavy duty people, and virtually unknown. The direction he's in is not south from Woodstock. That's all I'm saying.


Entered at Sun Jan 11 15:59:10 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Blushing Brides

Bill M: Blushing Brides came out of eastern Ontario and were indeed a Stones tribute band before trying their hand at original material. They were quite successful at the former and if you go to You Tube you can find a quite good original song performed in the Stones style. There has apparently been reunion shows and you can find these (2013) also at You Tube.

Bill, I hasten to add that (I've said this before) A Passing Fancy (I'm Losing Tonight) started out as The Dimensions in Toronto and did excellent Rolling Stones covers as an important part of their largely high school shows in those early days. I remember seeing them at my high school in the auditorium in the mid 60s.


Entered at Sun Jan 11 15:34:00 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.143)

Posted by:

Bill M

Location: Terronna

JT: I don't know about the Blushing Brides. The big local Stones tribute band of the '70s and early '80s was Hot Roxx, who'd previously been Piledriver - the houseband at your father's Running Pump pub in Highland Creek. Their guitarist then moved to Long John Baldry's band for some years, then Rita Chiarelli, then Danny Brooks. And now Fathead.


Entered at Sun Jan 11 10:52:55 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

In general I agree that you can replace the part someone played on a record note for note with an accomplished musician, though you may miss a touch of the feel, but more importantly you lose the fact that the "original guy" would probably not have exactly replicated his studio performance live. Whereas the "replacement" will inevitably try to, making it a tribute experience rather than the real thing.

Queen are a band who've played with a replacement lead vocalist, in their case replacing an extremely distinctive and irreplaceable lead vocalist. They used the plus sign to effect: Queen + Paul Rodgers, then Queen + Adam Lambert.

Another is Brian Wilson solo, in that the Wondermints who back him replacing fellow Beach Boys and some lead vocals, were said to have had a spell as a near-Beach Boys tribute band as well as their own career.

There is another example of recruiting a near-imitator from a talent contest show (I think Adam Lambert had sung Queen songs in an "Idol" TV show) but it's not coming to mind.

In fact with two long-time members, and everyone else closely associated, Jim Weider's The Weight is more an "offshoot band" than a "tribute band".


Entered at Sun Jan 11 10:16:42 CET 2015 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: The (Dire) Straits tribute band

There was a Dire Straits tribute band called The Straits. It included musicians who had been members of Dire Straits in the past and, unlike Mark Knopfler who has carved a solo career, they played the DS songs that attracted many fans in the first place.

In this case, though, they needed someone who could not only deliver the vocals in something like Knopfler's style but also appproximate his guitar playing. They found an actor/musician called Terence Reiss to fill that role and the band toured and played, on and off, for some three years.

They broke up because some members wanted to limit themselves to being a Dire Straits tribute band while others wanted to write and record their own material, too.


Entered at Sat Jan 10 20:57:55 CET 2015 from (58.104.16.106)

Posted by:

Wallsend

It is probably easier to have some credibility as the 'real thing' rather than a 'tribute' band if you have an original singer as the vocals are the most difficult thing to recreate. I would think with rock music you could replace almost any instrumentalist and still get by.


Entered at Sat Jan 10 16:23:20 CET 2015 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Subject: Tribute bands

Tributes seem to be all the rage now. People clearly want to hear the music In Toronto, I saw separate ads on a light poster on Yonge St. for tribute bands for U2, Aerosmith, and Journey, all recently. I still remember The Blushing Brides from previous times doing great Rolling Stones covers in perhaps the 70s. (help me, Bill)

Is there a distinction between tribute bands where only few of the original 'name' members remains and bands who are known for 'covering' an artist exclusively? I think there is a difference, since the name of the performer or band will be different most of the time for the 'cover' band.

As for using the band name when only a remnant remains, the promoter and advertisement should be upfront about who and what they are. That is uncommonly the case. I guess 'buyer beware' has to be in force.


Entered at Sat Jan 10 14:33:33 CET 2015 from (84.215.230.4)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

Happy 80th birthday, Ronnie Hawkins!


Entered at Sat Jan 10 11:09:25 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Little River Band v The Platters

Wallsend's link below took us to the Little River Band, who effectively lost their name to what is basically a tribute band. I saw The Platters, mentioned in the article in the summer (LINKED above). It is weird when a guy in his thirties, flanked by guys in their twenties says "This was a big hit for us in 1955" and they do identify with it, and they were also extremely good. As are the Bootleg Beatles, I'm told.

It's getting had to draw the line. The Animals, with only the drummer and an organist who played a few gigs in Sweden when Alan Price left, are closer to a tribute band. I accept The Searchers as "the real band" though. The Little River Band just aren't. The thing is you have people who have been in some of these bands for over twenty years, though not "originals" they have remained as originals finally retired.


Entered at Sat Jan 10 10:11:56 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Personal pronouns (Sat Jan 10 00:04:37 CET 2015)

I saw the experimental rap artist Grunt The Gorilla in Poole the other day. Peter V was there too.

Also he slaughtered a chicken and pissed on the stage between the songs.


Entered at Sat Jan 10 05:15:16 CET 2015 from (58.104.5.111)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Of interest perhaps.


Entered at Sat Jan 10 03:54:27 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.140)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: You want compliments, you gotta grunt musically like Rockin Chair - dutendudu.

Have fun, Norm! Susan too.


Entered at Sat Jan 10 03:13:17 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Here comes the sun dutendudu

Leavin for Mexico in the morning. Y'all try and get along for a week huh?

I don't think there is any real reason for us to be highjacked or murdered yet anyway.......so hope to see all-a-yuz later.


Entered at Sat Jan 10 00:04:37 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I grunt a lot but no one has ever complimented me on it.


Entered at Fri Jan 9 21:38:21 CET 2015 from (74.71.33.140)

Posted by:

Ari

Subject: Wontcha feed old Chester...whenever you can..and...

Pete. I'm glad you mentioned the improvised lines in Band songs...I've noticed Levon does it the most..."...Go down Miss Moses, there ain't nuthin that you could ever say..." and also how Levon led up to the chorus in The Weight with "...and I want you to--"

Also he grunts a lot, which is cool especially when he is doing it off mic.


Entered at Fri Jan 9 21:27:23 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: and then along comes Mary, a-weeping and a-wailing

Carmen: Our webmaster and host posted something back in 2014 to the effect that the Hawks-only BT stuff is expected out in 2015. Speculation in the press won't mean much.

sadavid: Al Kooper may have been thinking of the two falsettos on "I Shall Be Released" when he mentioned the Beach Boys. As for the Association, better them than the Fifth Dimension as a then-current example of several hipsters singing ensemble.


Entered at Fri Jan 9 16:02:22 CET 2015 from (74.43.18.162)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: Question

I have been listening to the Basement Tapes and cant help but wonder if the BAND's material without Dylan will ever see the light of day. I have not even seen this question asked in any of the news reports or reviews etc.


Entered at Fri Jan 9 10:51:52 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: vinyl

Link to a long excellent article from "The Guardian" on vinyl's renaissance. It's full of stuff I didn't know, and confirms some original LPs sound better than 1990s "remasters" (which were taken off CD remastering processes). Also while most new 2010s vinyl is better quality than the past, some of this new 180g vinyl sounds as if taken off MP3s by unscrupulous majors. A lot of new vinyl comes off ancient presses, with Germany being the centre. It also has the rise of "listening evenings" to vinyl (we have one locally) surprising a younger generation which has never assembled in a group to sit quietly through a whole LP, as we so often did.


Entered at Fri Jan 9 07:54:56 CET 2015 from (84.215.230.4)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

On a lighter note...


Entered at Fri Jan 9 03:29:33 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.153)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V / sadavid: The clearest BT reference to Mary and her weeping (plus moaning) comes in "900 Miles", still my favourite of Bob's vocals.


Entered at Thu Jan 8 22:46:35 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

It would be cheating if I claimed it were (flying) ACROSS THE DESERT (in a TWA) … from Brown Eyed Handsome Man.


Entered at Thu Jan 8 20:59:38 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: Frankly, I found the idea of the rain doing Moses's motor good a tad anachronistic.

Speaking of whom, there was reference to "Go down Moses", but not to "Go down Miss Moses". After all, her people were let go as a direct result of her efforts.


Entered at Thu Jan 8 20:39:29 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Get in touch with my Marie

As long as you got the Chuck Berry, Bill …


Entered at Thu Jan 8 20:29:17 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V / sadavid: I didn't spot the reference to "Mary Don't You Weep", though I tried. What/where?

In other news, it occurred to me on my latest run-through of the BTs that there's a whole lotta regards-saying going on in those songs: "Tell 'em Tiny Montgomery says hello", "Say hello to Valerie, say hello to Vivian", "Your the one who called on me to call on them", "She's the only one who called on me to call on them". Many more too, I suspect.


Entered at Thu Jan 8 15:43:22 CET 2015 from (76.69.46.244)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Exodus 2014:Superb review, Peter

Perhaps the most entertaining piece I've read in a long time. I'll see the movie some day. I enjoy this kind of think even if its what it is. But this review? A must read! I laughed repeatedly.


Entered at Wed Jan 7 16:19:26 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: improvs

When I was doing the various lyrics articles I got quite obsessed with improvised lines. I think both Rick and Levon found tiny changes that helped them with the scanning. Some were weird. Rick in one version sang "Won't you feed old Chester whenever you can."


Entered at Wed Jan 7 15:59:13 CET 2015 from (131.137.34.237)

Posted by:

sadavid

Subject: improvs

Peter V.: spotted yr clever allusion to 'O Mary, Don't You Weep' . . . Al Kooper listed The Swan Silvertones as a The Band influence in his RS review of _MFBP_, before Richard / Robbie quoted from 'Mary' in 'When You Awake' . . . I'm still not sure where The Beach Boys and The Association come into the picture . . . listening to _The Complete Last Waltz_ yesterday, I noticed that Levon sings 'You can walk on the water, drownd in the sand' . . . less happy was the improv on 'Walcott': 'once you get it, you can't quit it' . . . .


Entered at Wed Jan 7 12:55:12 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V 3

I started worrying about my Philips longevity and looked online - Marantz (Philips), TEAC, Yamaha and Sony all list CD-Recorders. They also function as good CD players too.


Entered at Wed Jan 7 12:03:50 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Extra note: The NAD box costs as much as a medium deck, I should have mentioned that. I think there may be USB outputs now on reasonable mid-priced decks - in UK, around the £200 level deck.


Entered at Wed Jan 7 11:50:45 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Copying LPs

Minotka Man: I do this on a daily basis (collecting 45s on vinyl and archiving them on CD). I mainly use a dedicated Philips hi-fi CD burner, one of the first models, and it still works. It’s in the hi-fi system and a joy to use BUT the downside is it uses CDR-AUDIO blanks, not CD blanks. They’re slightly more expensive and getting harder to find – they pay a blanket copyright royalty of which I approve. That means I use my main Goldring deck and play through the hi fi and enjoy listening while I’m doing it. You can also record other sources like CD or cassette, and do CDRs which mix the three sources. You can also get re-recordable ones.

The way most people do it is with a USB deck straight into the computer, then burn the CDs off the computer. I’m set up to do this, but rarely do. It’s a less satisfying copying experience for starters. The main issue there is most USB decks are cheap, and so have cheap cartridges – and that’s the source of your CD sound. A £60 deck will create a CD that sounds like its budget cartridge.

There is a more expensive route. I have a NAD phono/USB analogue to digital box. You plug any deck – your existing one (so no cost), or a new good one – into the box. It converts it to a digital signal. You put that into the computer via USB, and then burn the CD off the computer. The supplied NAD software is awful, but you can direct it to iTunes or if you want to clip hissy needledrops etc, to GarageBand. This means that you’re getting the sound from a quality cartridge, not a cheap tinny one.

I worry that my ancient Philips CD burner will eventually die, and I don’t know if they still make ones for hi-fi systems, but if you can pick one up (Sony & Pioneer also made models) you can actually enjoy transferring your vinyl. Also, a CDR recorded off an LP will sound like the LP, given a decent deck – it has the same compression used for the LP. This makes me wonder if preference for vinyl is the mix and compression rather than the mysteries of a stylus tracking an analogue groove, because the vinyl “sound” largely copies over on to CD!

WORD has CD cover templates for making inserts.


Entered at Wed Jan 7 09:53:41 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Jan, best wishes.


Entered at Wed Jan 7 04:47:23 CET 2015 from (24.220.143.51)

Posted by:

Minotka Man

Location: The Midwest in the Bleak Mid-Winter
Web: My link

Subject: LP to CD

Its time to down-size and clear off some shelves - like turning LPs into CDs. Has anyone else been down this road? What equipment did you use? Were you happy with the result? What would you recommend? Any info would be appreciated!


Entered at Wed Jan 7 00:06:09 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Exodus: Gods & Kings

Link to today's review. 'tis the season for movies - all the big releases pre-Christmas in the USA are post-Christmas here, so they're appearing in a rush. Spot the embedded lyric quotes in this one …


Entered at Wed Jan 7 00:01:13 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.86)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Vince Martin & Timothy B. Schmidt

you tube of a 1976 performance. There's several more once you get there.


Entered at Tue Jan 6 18:25:51 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.86)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Streams are a body of (hopefully) water.

Solomon. As the owner of sound recordings that i have digitally distributed through Cd Baby, after Cd Baby takes their ( i think) 9% cut, my corporation is paid 60 to 90 some odd cents per iTunes download, depending on the the country.When my songs are streamed,again, as the sound recording owner, i get paid between a tenth and 9 tenths of a penny. One of those records I spent about 80K producing. In todays music economy, there aren't many reasons for someone to spend a pile of money making music. As a result, there are many downsides to this, including, tons of great music doesn't get heard. And a lot of super talented people walk around feeling like zombies.

Even downloading sucks too. When people had to buy the whole product, not only was the income greater, but the experience for the listener was as well. If you did not skip songs on a record or cd, you ended up listening to songs that you might not have appreciated at first listen, but grew to love or enjoy.


Entered at Tue Jan 6 18:12:48 CET 2015 from (86.128.250.216)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland
Web: My link

Subject: Earnings

But fortunes are still made in the world of popular music. Amy MacDonald - from coffee bars to 5 million in the bank - a recent Scottish news story.

So sorry to hear about your father, Jan.


Entered at Tue Jan 6 17:40:59 CET 2015 from (74.43.18.162)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: Cover

First - Jan - Best wishes. It never gets easy but it does get easier with time.

On XPN University of Penn Radio today I heard a cover of "Up on Cripple Creek" by a band named Gomez. First time I ever heard this one so don't know if new or old. Not a bad cover.


Entered at Tue Jan 6 13:09:40 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Sorry 150% is wrong … it's actually 10,500% isn't it? Or is it 1,500%? I think 10, 500%.


Entered at Tue Jan 6 13:07:52 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Spotify screws

… but only as long as people are prepared to make music, pay studio time, buy instruments, BUT don't want to eat, sleep in covered accommodation and have families on the fruits of their labour. At 0.6p for 100 streams, only the twenty biggest megastars are going to make any money.

I think Streaming is obviously the future, but it has to be re-established in a way that the artist makes money. When I was a kid, a juke box was 6 old pence a play (2.4 p in modern money). Or you could get three plays for a shilling. Or 5p. We found that quite reasonable, and 5p then was equivalent to around 50p today. So if Spotify increased pay to songwriters by 150% to 1 p a play, and did double to artists, that would be 3p a play. So, 33 songs for £1? Seems fair to me - that's around three hours listening. But the greedy swine don't.


Entered at Tue Jan 6 12:30:45 CET 2015 from (92.18.198.167)

Posted by:

Solomon

Subject: Spotify

I love having access to over 20 million songs on my computer or mobile. btw - currently you can get 3 months of Spotify Premium for only 99p! People will always use the cheapest and most convenient way of streaming music or buying goods despite all the faults of Spotify and Amazon.


Entered at Tue Jan 6 09:50:50 CET 2015 from (74.71.33.140)

Posted by:

Ari

Web: My link

Subject: Movie TEASER Trailer

This is the teaser trailer. It is different than the official trailer.


Entered at Tue Jan 6 09:42:23 CET 2015 from (74.71.33.140)

Posted by:

Ari

Location: Muskogee
Web: My link

Subject: My Movie Trailer

Hey all,

I just wanted to share this with you all. You won't have to look further then the title to spot a Band influence.

Jan, I'm really sorry to hear about your father. All the best to you and your family.


Entered at Tue Jan 6 07:00:13 CET 2015 from (219.89.223.220)

Posted by:

Rod

yes, hope things go as well as possible for you and your dad Jan. this is never an easy time.


Entered at Tue Jan 6 01:29:57 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: The ultimate price

Condolences Jan for this difficult time. Over here there are those of us who never lose sight of how fortunate we have been. Most of us have never had to go through what your folks and Jerry's were subjected to.

I was lucky with both my mum and Dad. They died in the same room in the same hospital. Both died very peacefully jus slowly going to sleep as my brothers and I played a few tunes for them. My Dad was 83, nine years later our Mum was one month shy of ninety.

It would be nice to finally see people who haven't had to deal with the horrors of war. From what goes on lately and the very young veterans we see coming home from this senseless conflict, it doesn't seem like it will be as soon as it should be.


Entered at Mon Jan 5 21:47:57 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Link for the film buffs here to my review of "The Theory of Everything."

Zzz is a good name for a band. If it's in the crystal shop relaxing mood music section, it's a great name.


Entered at Mon Jan 5 20:53:41 CET 2015 from (65.189.212.146)

Posted by:

Calvin

Actually Peter, there are two. zZz, a Dutch band that I dont believe is still active and a Japanese band called ZZZ.


Entered at Mon Jan 5 17:36:31 CET 2015 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

Jan H: Hope you're doing okay at this tough time. Here's a link to "The Dad Song".


Entered at Mon Jan 5 11:34:33 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Spotify screws

re the article Jeff linked. Some odds and bits from various UK articles.

An increase in music streaming has pushed UK sales to more than £1bn, according to official data. Nearly 15 billion songs were streamed from digital services such as Spotify, Deezer and Google Play in 2014. There were double the number of streams in 2013. Streaming now accounts for 12.6% of all the music consumed in the UK - and 17% of retail music spend. The growth in music streaming is predicted to continue in 2015, with Apple expected to give an extra push or a possible relaunch for the Beats service it acquired last year.YouTube is also set to launch a new music subscription service.

Despite an 8% decline in sales of CD albums (In 2003, there were 159m album sales in the UK; 2013, there were 94m, 2014 is 8% less than that), sales of vinyl records reached almost £1.3m. That figure marks a 65% increase in this small market, with Pink Floyd's The Endless River and AM by Arctic Monkeys among the big sellers.

BUT according to another article, the loss of CD revenue is far higher than the gain in digital revenue and a fair share of digital revenue is NOT going to the artists. For chart compilers, 100 streaming sales = one iTunes sale or single sale. For those earning, 100 x 0.006p is 0.6p so far less than the sale of one iTunes track.


Entered at Mon Jan 5 03:13:07 CET 2015 from (173.3.49.161)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Interesting article


Entered at Mon Jan 5 01:48:46 CET 2015 from (96.30.173.135)

Posted by:

joe j

Web: My link

Thanks so much Peter for the link to the Felice tune. Impressive.

In return I offer a link to some new Amelia Curran tunes from her latest, 'They Promised You Mercy'

Belated Happy New Year to all. My woman is back after a month in the Far East. All is well. Listening to Disc 6 of the Basement Tapes and sipping on some fine Ledaig. Got some Coltrane cued up. Life is so effing good.


Entered at Sun Jan 4 19:49:45 CET 2015 from (74.108.29.164)

Posted by:

Joan

Subject: Jan

I just want to wish you solace at this time. Your dad seemed to be a man with life was well lived. Wishing you my condolences


Entered at Sun Jan 4 14:27:47 CET 2015 from (24.199.71.83)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC
Web: My link

Nice NY Times article on Jim Weider's current group/project, The Weight.


Entered at Sun Jan 4 14:25:45 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Simone Felice

This is a real treat. Trust me. Follow the link to Simone Felice's site. Scroll to 3 December 2014 (not far) and there's a video of "Bye Bye Palenville" recorded at St Pancras Church in London - just him with Anna Mitchell on piano, as when I saw him in December. Brilliant singing.


Entered at Sun Jan 4 13:43:27 CET 2015 from (66.55.188.178)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: Dads

My dad died after a 1 year illness in 1991. He had been well until that time. He was 71. Jan...keep the good times and the positives in your heart and mind.


Entered at Sun Jan 4 12:47:25 CET 2015 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Jan

May the rest of your Father's earthy journey go smoothly. I lost my Father in 1983. Two heart attacks the same day. He was only 70. He and his Father and older brother made there way to Canada; from Newhaven to prepare the rest of the family for the journey. His Father was abusive to him. He never made much money in life. However he built us a lovely home to grow up in and my Mom always made sure we ate good food. We expect our parents to die; before us; but we're never quite ready. All the very best to your Dad Jan. When we lose our parents, I guess we're the next generation up to bat. However to end on a high note. We had Rock 'n' Roll.


Entered at Sun Jan 4 10:51:38 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Military matters …

My dad’s generation spoke about “The War” and my generation mean the same by “The War” – we never had to qualify as “World War II.” Bonk, I pass through Basingstoke quite often on my way from Poole to Reading. It’s a town comedians like to latch on to as an example of dullness, but while it has an unpleasant modern ring road system, it has a great arts / music venue which we visit occasionally. The country around is very pretty and very English.

Canadian and American forces were spread right across Hampshire particularly. Because my dad had worked in the motor trade pre-war, he was a motorcycle dispatch rider in the months before D-Day – all the road signs had been removed in 1940 to foil a potential invasion, and he knew his way around the area. He would always point out places and say ‘The Canadian army were there’ or ‘The American (X) Division were there.’

You find things that make you think. My sister was born in 1941, and he saw her once between 1941 and 1946. I have the strip of six photos of her aged around two with different expressions. Heavily creased, It travelled through France, Belgium, Holland and Germany with him. A reason to get through. My British generation has lived without ever having to discover that – though I guess ten years older were in Malaysia for the trouble there, or fifteen years older in Korea. And of course our American equivalent had Vietnam.


Entered at Sun Jan 4 01:00:45 CET 2015 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Dads

It's funny but when I first discovered the Beatles, I was playing I saw her standing there on our old record player in the living room of our house back in Cabbagetown. My Dad loved to jive and he was really good at it. I didn't think he approved of the Beatles but after listening for a few minutes he said, 'it's got a good back beat, you can dance to it' I never knew what he meant by back beat until 34 years later when I took to the drums.


Entered at Sun Jan 4 00:56:40 CET 2015 from (67.84.77.213)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Jan,your dad must be plenty tough in his own way. May he travel gently the rest of his path.. And if there is an afterlife, maybe he'll get to invent the printing press next time.


Entered at Sun Jan 4 00:42:00 CET 2015 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Jan

Sorry to hear that Jan. My Dad passed in 1973 at 51. He joined the army as a seventeen year old in the PPCLI. He fought in Italy until his best friend, who was also seventeen, was blown up right beside him. He spent the rest of the war in a place called Basenstoke in England. He would never talk about it much and I wish I could talk to him again.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 23:54:42 CET 2015 from (87.152.120.121)

Posted by:

Norbert

Jan, I can see you love your father a lot, that was a beautiful post and I’m certain he’s proud of you too, then, nevertheless, all is good. Strength.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 23:41:56 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Occupied Europe

On the privations of occupied Europe, do seek out "Tamar" by Mal Peet. It's classified as young adult, but every adult I know who's read it was deeply affected (see link). It's set in occupied Holland in 1944 and 1945. I saw Mal Peet speak recently and had my copy signed and we spoke about it. It is a lesson and he researched it thoroughly with Dutch friends. Norway must have been much the same.

My own dad died at 54. He was in the British Army and drove the BBC Radio team into Belsen as I have often (proudly) said here. He had nightmares about what they saw there for the rest of his life. He died a few days before England's 1966 World Cup football victory - and unless you are European you have no idea how much that victory meant. A year before he died, he would not let my now brother-in-law park a Volkswagen outside our house. Seriously. That's how it was.

I have many German friends and have taught many Germans and it's seventy years gone. A full lifetime. You can't blame the sins of the fathers, and that's right. Every child is a new blank sheet that way. But we also can't forget what was done. Not in the self-congratulatory sense either that we would have stood up to be counted (and then been shot down) if we'd lived there. Who knows what they would have done? But it happened.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 23:27:42 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bless your father, Jan.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 23:20:10 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

God bless him on the journey, Jan.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 23:12:10 CET 2015 from (84.215.230.4)

Posted by:

jh

Peter, your Mars Bar story reminded of my dear Dad, who is in hospital now facing the end of a long and difficult life. He was 15 when the war ended, short, skinny and malnutritioned after 5 years of German occupation, surviving on whatever they could grow or catch. No sugar, no fat, no proper meat, no butter or milk. Constantly hungry for five years, with a violent alcoholic father. Marked him for his entire life. Aged 14 in 1944, he started as an apprentice printer in the local newspaper, where he would end up working for 50 years. When the war ended and you could get proper food in shops again, he would spend his wage buying large blocks of chocolate for lunch and spread butter on top of them. He lived on this for a year or so, until he got sick again from malnutrition. May you go gently, old warrior.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 21:35:18 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I'm happy to co-write the communal bestseller. Tell you what though, I think it's better for all you guys if just my name appears on the copyright. You wouldn't want the hassle … Can we do it in WORD. I don't understand Excel.

I never condone Alsatians (aka German Shepherds) attacking people, having been hospitalized by one, and I loathe the breed. BUT if they're going to attack anyone, U2 fans are the second-best choice. Perhaps Doors fans wee not available.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 19:38:12 CET 2015 from (87.152.120.121)

Posted by:

Norbert

Subject: The Book

The warehouse thing on Bleecker Street is canceled. Unfortunately too many diverend business location messed up the idea; NYC, Charleston, Oslo, London, Toronto, Ibiza..... a pity …

To get some fresh air I worked in the garden this afternoon. Our German Sheppard attacked the neighbor (U2 fan) and while I separated the two, I got another, better idea....

Why not write a bestseller about music all together?!

Let's get organized and choose a bestselling structure. The combined effort makes this easy.

Peter can provide a spreadsheet to compile the whole thing and every participant can start pounding out stories.

What people want to know about music starts with an s .... syncopation!

Have a great weekend all.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 14:42:11 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

...and not to forget a band called Ö! which play minimalist drone-y stuff that has several tempos at the same time. Sounds a bit like three bands trying to play the same song at the same time in different parts of the house.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 14:31:42 CET 2015 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Alphabetically...

... except Änglagård.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 10:11:37 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Alphabetically …

You won't find anything after ZZ Top. Unless a band called ZZZ exists.


Entered at Sat Jan 3 04:47:24 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.142)

Posted by:

Bill M

Location: Tronto
Web: My link

JT: Good of you to think of Alfie Zappacosta. I thought of him when I asked myself if we had any Zed rock stars, but decided he wasn't big enough, even in this country - though of course he has the talent. He still has a sufficient fan base to justify annual shows at Hugh's Room, and the lovely song at the link still gets a bit of airplay. But mostly I hear his voice singing the Pizza Nova jingle, the light-opera version of "439 oh oh oh oh Pizza Nova, a real Italian pizza with flavour you can savour ..." Besides Joel deadmaus5 Zimmerman, there's Zeus if we count groups. Adams, Bryan before Alanis.

Although, as mentioned, I did find the gift of music under the tree last week, I felt I had to dash out yesterday to pick up the "Tambourine" CD that Eaglesmith, Fred snuck out months ago without me noticing. Typically excellent, though untypically all over the stylistic map of '60s pop sounds. One song has him in standard normal poor-me mode, singing "Whip a dog long enough, the dog runs away" - but then comes this wonderful throwaway line in the middle of a poor-me verse, "I need a bath and a pedicure". Arrff arrff!


Entered at Fri Jan 2 21:30:23 CET 2015 from (87.152.120.121)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Germany
Web: My link

Subject: Garth, Mics, Ella Eyre & racism

Solomon thanks for the link, Garth always emotionally affects me, such a special person and a genius.

Norm, Pat & Peter thanks for the mic info, interesting, did you know they’re already working on a mic that needs no singer anymore……..:-)

Peter, your Jools link put me onto Ella Eyre’s “Waiting all night”. I had never heard of her, but this little girl, while only singing one line, blew the Hootenanny roof top off last year I think, what a talent (link).

We went shopping in Osnabrück today and in the book shop I saw a book about the origins of racism .... it comes from slavery ….. Dutch ships brought them to America (not so great). ….. I found this on the net:

“An important alternative view is that, while anyone can have prejudices against anyone else and then discriminate against that person, such behaviour can only be racist if it comes from the ‘race' which over the years has been placed as superior and uses its power to strengthen and enforce its prejudices. Many have argued that racism, then, equals racial prejudice plus power.

According to this definition, while a black person might be prejudiced against a white person on the basis of race, perhaps violently and unjustly, this may not strictly be racism because the black person does not have the assumed support of institutions such as the police or the media behind them.

This idea of racism says that there are many parts of society and the major organisations that run it which in either loud or subtle ways support racism, and these support what was declared to be the ‘superior’ race.”

Racism can therefore be seen to occur in many different areas of society. In 2006, black pupils were three times more likely than white ones to be permanently excluded from school and the least likely to get five or more GCSEs. Despite this, black Africans are more likely than white people to have university degrees or their equivalent, but are four times less likely to get a job after graduating. Black people are eight times more likely than white people to be stopped and searched by the police, yet once under court scrutiny they are less likely actually to be found guilty. Black people and ethnic minorities are more likely to be victims of crime and of racially motivated attacks. Statistics shows that black people are three times as likely to be out of work, are paid less than white people with similar qualifications. Black people are also regularly recognised by employment tribunals to be discriminated against and bullied at work”

‘Oh I am not racist,’ many white folks have said

But racism’s not just a thought in your head

It’s the privilege we wield when we walk down the street

And don’t have to fear each white cop that we meet’

Anyway one can read a lot about the origins and the ugliness of racism, about the answers there isn’t much to be found. ....


Entered at Fri Jan 2 21:06:22 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Mars Bars

Info on the international Mars Bar which differs. We're into the Yorkshiremen Sketch - when I were a lad, we bought one Mars bar for a family of four a week. It was consumed on two evenings. First cut in half, then the half cut into four. We still had "sweet" rationing while paying off our war debts. So to me as a child, 1/8th of a Mars Bar was an evening treat.

Luxury! When I were a lad …

But it is true. The Marianne Faithful story on the other hand, is not true.


Entered at Fri Jan 2 19:26:39 CET 2015 from (86.128.250.216)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Food heaven

I hope you follow that with a deep fried Mars Bar for dessert, Solomon...living on the culinary edge.


Entered at Fri Jan 2 13:44:31 CET 2015 from (92.18.192.9)

Posted by:

Solomon

Web: My link

Subject: Favourite Garth Moments

Great one jh ! I love all the clips from the classic album documentary. Dunc - I love a good fish supper with two pickled eggs and a bottle of Irn-bru to wash it down. Happy new year all)


Entered at Fri Jan 2 13:29:24 CET 2015 from (86.128.250.216)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Jools

Thought the Jools show was great. Couldn't agree with you more, Peter. I watched it last night. We get a Scottish show on BBC 1, which I watched and thought was good also.

I think that distinctively British sound of lead guitar, bass and drums was done to perfection by Wilko Johnson. It's a moving story, how he survived his brush with cancer.


Entered at Fri Jan 2 13:16:30 CET 2015 from (86.128.250.216)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: British music, renting music

I think there is something happening in British music. Travelling with my granddaughters in the car at times, I think I'm listening to a lot of reasonable material. I think the Clean Bandit song is really good, Paolo Nuttini(still get fish and chops from his dad's shop), Sam Smith, Paloma Faith, Ed Sheerin, Pharrell Williams, and lots more, but I don't know their names. Really good musicianship. Never felt this for some time. I won't be buying though.

Bill M thanks for the link to Tom Wilson article. I've read several times how my generation don't get how younger people access their music. They rent their music, or only buy tracks they want, not the artist's entire album, and they may delete acquired songs through time.

I always thought it was important to listen to the entire album and still got something out of the tracks I didn't think were so good. And I couldn't imagine my Band, Dylan, Stones, Byrds, Martyn, Gaye, Beatles, Marra, AWB etc albums not being there. Although there are albums I have got rid of.

A Guid New Year To Ane An' A


Entered at Fri Jan 2 13:15:55 CET 2015 from (66.55.188.178)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: deadmau5

Sorry, spelling - deadmau5 = Joel Zimmerman


Entered at Fri Jan 2 12:59:57 CET 2015 from (66.55.188.178)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: deadmaus5

Bill M: In my A to Zed I neglected to mention Zimmerman, Joel (deadmau5) who is having a big time career. Zappacosta sprang to mind. Alanis could be the bookend on the A side.


Entered at Fri Jan 2 08:48:26 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Rule Brittania

Much is being made here of the fact that the top ten selling UK albums of 2014 are all by British artists for the first time ever. I only have one of them (Paolo Nutini) and would only consider two more (Pink Floyd, Paloma Faith) so don’t blame me. Though Ed Sheeran seems “quite good” I can’t see what all the fuss is about.

Is it that all these “idol” programmes are making us more parochial? I find it hard to see Britain in 2015 as the equivalent of the 1960s in music, but no doubt my granddad felt the same in 1964, and went off muttering about “You never saw Marie Lloyd at the Hackney Empire in 1913.”

On the other hand, the last couple of years London, particularly around the river has had that “centre of the universe” buzz that I last felt there circa 1970.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 23:13:32 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Another mistake!

Of the Tractors I was talking about Steve "Ripley". Steve Ridley is a football player. Steve Ripley, and other members of the Tractors spent time playing with Bob Dylan and Eric Clapton among others..........Band connections.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 22:57:51 CET 2015 from (79.160.47.202)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

Garth! What a man.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 19:46:24 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest
Web: My link

Subject: Not Fade Away....The Band & The Crickets

This is one of the coolest clips you'll ever see. Part of the video I made. Lets hear it for Levon, it's great to watch him here.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 19:39:16 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest
Web: My link

Subject: Buddy Holly and the Hollies

This is from the album "Not Fade Away". Graham Nash explained the equipment that was used to accomplish this. It had something to do with a technique they use in movies. It is so long since I watched it, I don't quite remember, but this is a great sound.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 19:33:18 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Arthritic fingers

That of course was supposed to be "Richie Valens"


Entered at Thu Jan 1 19:27:10 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Confirmation

Thank you Pat. I'm not surprised. I wonder, (you probably know). I taped a show on video.....I spoke of this here years ago. The making of the album, "Not Fade Away". The Buddy Holly Tribute. I came in my house one day years ago and here was this show on tv, narrated by Waylon. The participants were, The Crickets, The Band, (Levon sings Not Fade Away). The Tractors, The Dirt Band, and the Hollies.

Steve Ridley of the Tractors, in his studio explained a great deal of Buddy Holly's innovative guitar techniques as well as his recording. The one thing that amazed Steve was how Buddy had a mic right up against the strings on his strat to record the "slap" sound of the pick. When he brought it up and isolated it on the board, it was very prominent, but in the mix very subtle. As Steve said that is just one example of his knowledge. Also Buddy, for fast strum rythmn action rather than use a wrist strum, his strum was his whole forearm from his elbow. This action Steve said is taught in guitar instruction studios. He said.....well Buddy was doing it way back then. He used videos of Buddy playing and isolated his arm to illustrate. As a mostly rythmn player myself, I practised that technique a lot, but never mastered it to the degree of Buddy Holly.

To confirm that fatal last night, Waylon explained, (getting on the plane) Ricky Valens and I believe it was Buddy's drummer, (I'll have to watch this vid again) any way they flipped a coin. The Big Bopper asked Waylon for his seat and Waylon gave it to him. As he explained this, the sadness in Waylon's voice, (to me) was evident. Waylon closes his narration of this film with this remark, "Who knows what might have been.....but, OH BOY......the music will not FADE AWAY".................


Entered at Thu Jan 1 19:25:18 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Peter, I don't know what LC uses live but I would guess it's some kind of dynamic construction which maximizes signal response and avoids feedback. At one point I owned close to 20 SM 58's for live applications--really durable, sounded great, and relatively cheap. I do know that LC uses a Neumann U47 and a Neve preamp in the studio which is pretty common.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 18:54:28 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Obviously I mean stage sound …


Entered at Thu Jan 1 18:53:33 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Pat, am I right in my opinion (oft-stated) that part of Leonard Cohen's superior vocal sound is the use of mics on leads, never radio mics? I reckon that means they can crank up the volume more. Or is this outdated prejudice on my part? I mean radio mics have improved immeasurably, but Leonard still uses one on a lead.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 18:33:54 CET 2015 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Norm, I own about 40 mic's. The differences in the construction, the material, the electronics etc give them all particular character which in turn provides for specific applications. My Neumanns even have large tubes in them which gives their sound a particularly appealing dimension. Of course, now I have software now that can make a mic approximate any other mic.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 17:48:54 CET 2015 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Not True .........Microphones?

2014 is over.....I just blinked and it was gone. Lets have a good one peace on earth.

Norbert! I don't know how many years ago I spoke at length here about microphones, but no one responded. That is a very important subject, (to any one who stands for many hours with a mic in their face).

The differences between a Shure 57 or 58 the filters on them, and the difference compared to Seinhiesers, (I probably didn't spell that right). The mics used for drum enhancement and what type and the optimal placement. I learned a lot from a couple of different sound men. Also where your voice is on that eq strip on a mixing board. The differences you can achieve are huge. I would bet that Pat Brennan would have a great amount of experience with this subject.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 17:31:58 CET 2015 from (66.55.188.178)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria intermittently

Subject: A to Zed

(Alfie) Zappacosta.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 16:32:47 CET 2015 from (87.152.120.121)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: Canada

Bill, isn't Canada a part of the USA anymore?

No, sorry. How could I forget about the Canadians here on The Band site? (my parents turn in their Dutch grave now)



Entered at Thu Jan 1 16:13:03 CET 2015 from (68.171.246.148)

Posted by:

Bill M

Happy New Year all.

Norbert: One never can tell what someone else means by 'rock star', but in my mind Canadians Robbie Robertson and Garth Hudson still rate the designation - as does a list of their compatriots, ending alphabetically with Young, Neil.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 15:52:23 CET 2015 from (87.152.120.121)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: oops

sorry, this is right Little Bob link :-)


Entered at Thu Jan 1 15:49:44 CET 2015 from (87.152.120.121)

Posted by:

Norbert

Web: My link

Subject: Little Bob & Mic Techniques

Little Bob from France (link) makes me just realize there aren’t many famous Rock stars or groups from outside the USA, UK or Australia. Must have something to do with the native language or so, anyway remarkable.

Another thing, the way Little Bob holds the mic (with the cable loop between the forefinger and the middle finger) touches the issue of mic techniques. I just went through 20 years of GB archives and no posts about this, i.m.o. important segment of performing, to be found.

Should I use a left or a right hand mic? When do I use the on and off switch? When a stand? What’s the feedback of the mic? Can I spit safely into the (electric) thing? What makes a mic a better mic? etc.

The newest (expensive) intelligent microphones (the “autonomous mic”) contains a complete computer to support the singer, (it senses, evaluate and act in a fraction of a sec.). It also can switch, automatically, between the playback and life mode if it thinks that’s better option and makes every artist sing well…..

Anyway we still got TLW ... do we?


Entered at Thu Jan 1 14:17:42 CET 2015 from (87.152.120.121)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Germany
Web: My link

Pad, thanks, but you worry me a little, all well there? (if you persist we move the whole thing to Charleston!)

Peter, thanks that’s already the best post of 2015.

Jeff A, thanks for Vince. Now that’s quite the kind of stuff one wants in the window, think he even looks better in pale neon light on a rainy night ;-)

Norm, talking about France; two fine France related movies (not about the war though)

1) Midnight in Paris (2011) from Woody Allen

"Midnight in Paris" is a beautiful display of what movie magic can truly create, a sense of wonder long gone from contemporary cinema; this is a movie that entertains, teaches, and wears each one of its elements, like Paris bewitches us with every light, every facade, and every heartbeat of its music.”

2) Le Havre (2011) by Aki Kaurismaki

“Kaurismaki’s film turns out to be a beautiful, karmic fairy tale about good things happening to good people. It is kind to its viewers, treating us to the gorgeous cinematography of Timo Salminen and protecting us from despair, as its characters do each other.”

b.t.w. don’t miss Little Bob as Little Bob, a real French rocker. Anyway this film keeps you warm a winter long :-)



Entered at Thu Jan 1 12:28:55 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Private Number

William Bell & Joss Stone singing "Private Number" from last night's show - I don't know how long this will be on YouTube so grab a look while you can. As I said, William Bell was the show stealer for me. I also think Joss Stone did a brilliant job - the Judy Clay part on the original is one of my all time favorites.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 11:06:22 CET 2015 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: An Omen?

2 minutes past midnight. We always phone our son in NYC to wish him Happy New Year UK time. So into my office to phone, somewhat hurried knowing that Ronnie Spector was on Jools Holland and as top billing would get to sing the first song of 2015 (once they’d got rid of the Scots pipers). I sat on my expensive “floating” mesh office chair – bought about 12 years ago for a then huge sum of money, about £400 – it adjusts in many ways,. There is a loud crack and the plastic or fibreglass seat edge splits in two. A razor sharp edge goes right through my sweater, missing my wrist artery by about 2 mm. Just a tiny nick on the skin. The chair is totally f*cked.

So how much weight did I put on over Christmas? Surely not that much as over a year I’ve lost 20 pounds. Is it just the day it decides to break?

Mrs V says it is an omen and a wake up call. It means “Get up off your arse and start putting out the backlog of e-publications we have been building up and revising for four years.”

I’ll add that I was sober, well sober enough, wine with dinner at 7.30, but no alcohol after that – I like to hit New Year’s Day with a clear head, and never see the point in downing alcohol right before you go to sleep, and I never drink whisky in any case.

Ronnie Spector did “Be my Baby” but the hit of the show was definitely William Bell.

On e-publications for the third or fourth year I’ll link the New Year’s Eve short story on our backlist – apposite because I just realized it is set exactly fifty years ago.


Entered at Thu Jan 1 02:52:41 CET 2015 from (173.3.49.82)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Living Characters for Norbert...Brooklyn Vince Martin

Martin is not Vince's real last name. Marcellino is. Vince is from my neighborhood. We've had breakfast together sometimes, sometimes pizza.... Check out the link, you'll love the interview.... Anyone on my FB page, there's pics of us in a pizza place.

Here's his wikipedia story

He first recorded with the Tarriers (Erik Darling, Alan Arkin and Bob Carey) in 1956, on the hit single Cindy, Oh Cindy. He became more widely known with his duo recordings with Fred Neil in the early 1960s. The album Tear Down The Walls (1964) contained mainly Neil's songs, recorded with musicians including John Sebastian and Felix Pappalardi, and became very popular and influential on the burgeoning folk (and later folk rock) scene.
In 1969 he recorded the album If the Jasmine Don't Get You ... the Bay Breeze Will in Nashville, with the musicians who had just finished recording Bob Dylan's Nashville Skyline. A second solo album, Vince Martin followed in 1973.
More recently, Martin has performed with Thurston Moore, and issued an album Full Circle in 2003.
Martin is featured in Vagabondo! (2010), a new documentary about his life.

Mike Nomad - i'll lift a glass to you soon.

On the subject of last days Norbert, there's no place I rather spend the rest of my time than NYC & up around Woodstock. Going elsewhere is fun, interesting, & even necessary sometimes. Still, diluted as it is, you ain't gonna beat NYC when you're a native. I'm hoping i get to die right here. No time soon. But, here in Brooklyn, some great pizza on the table, even stale pizza on the kitchen table, not a bad way to go....


Entered at Thu Jan 1 01:29:11 CET 2015 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Joe Bonamassa

Hey Norm. May 11th and 12th. Queen Elizabeth Theatre 2015.


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