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The Band: Live at the Academy of Music 1971

Levon Helm: Ramble at the Ryman

The Band: Three of a Kind

Robbie Robertson: How to Become Clairvoyant

Garth Hudson Presents a Canadian Celebration of The Band

Levon Helm: Electric Dirt

Garth and Maud Hudson: Live at the Wolf

Pulse

Dirt Farmer

Elliot Landy's Woodstock Vision

The Band Guestbook

Welcome to The Band guestbook. If you have problems reading this page, see the answers to frequently asked questions about the guestbook.

You can add your own comments by signing the guestbook. Please behave and follow the rules of conduct.

If you are looking for previous entries or posters, try searching the guestbook archives.


Entered at Tue Sep 30 13:28:02 CEST 2014 from (58.104.2.139)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

An interview with Robbie from 2011 I don't recall hearing before.


Entered at Tue Sep 30 06:19:35 CEST 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

The glory of the OQ in Philadelphia.


Entered at Tue Sep 30 05:09:31 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: World Gone Wrong

Kevin J: Wrong again. The rumour is that was earlier this year. Lucky guy.


Entered at Tue Sep 30 04:28:50 CEST 2014 from (24.114.88.250)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Oh My God........

.......just in case the lovely Chantale is looking in........remember it was 1979, not 1978..........that beautiful Firebird stays in the story......let's toss those furry seat covers and instead of Kiss's "Alive 2" that really was playing.......I'm remembering something by The Band or David Bowie......oh, and those weirdos in the dented rusted out Ford Pinto at the top of the hill........probably Pat or Jerry.


Entered at Tue Sep 30 03:00:18 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Corrections

PSB: Glad to hear that the corrections have been made on the dates given. Hopefully that appears in the article' s later edition.Thanks for the information and the update.


Entered at Tue Sep 30 01:34:37 CEST 2014 from (72.78.48.169)

Posted by:

PSB

Location: City of Brotherly Love

Subject: Philly 66

Ian, I'm sure they knew what they were getting because the requirements would have been in the contract.

For those who don't realize it, the Philadelphia Academy of Music was home to the Philadelphia Orchestra until the Kimmel Center opened in 1994. While some dispute this, it is considered to have some of the finest acoustics in the country and the world.

Carmen, the News article actually was wrong originally, but I emailed Mr. Takiff who made some corrections.


Entered at Tue Sep 30 01:23:46 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Philly '66 + forthcoming Basement Tapes release

1. Philly '66

Do I take it that the authorities running the Academy of Music in 1966 thought that they were booking "Dylan the solo folksinger" and were taken aback to realise that the second half was "dylan + Hawks"?

2. The forthcoming Basement Tapes release

The original ROLLING STONE report on the forthcoming release stated that "through painstaking research and a little guesswork, the songs are presented in roughly the order they were taped, though a series of half-completed or poorly recorded tracks reside on the final disc". Elsewhere, ROLLING STONE quoted "a source close to the Dylan camp", so I guess this information came from that source.

The source did say that, "Everything is coming out, besides four or five things that just sound like distortion".


Entered at Mon Sep 29 22:38:32 CEST 2014 from (86.167.63.139)

Posted by:

Simon

Peter - re. The Basement Tapes ... that sounds about right but I think Disc 6 may be where they've gathered together the tracks from inferior sources (DATs, cassettes etc.) so the chronology might not apply on that one. I suppose it would make sense to have the more sonically compromised stuff on one disc.


Entered at Mon Sep 29 19:05:43 CEST 2014 from (68.70.61.190)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: Dates

Just to be clear - the article has it right - I mis-typed the 1965 date.


Entered at Mon Sep 29 18:35:31 CEST 2014 from (72.78.48.169)

Posted by:

PSB

Location: City of Brotherly Love

Subject: Wrong Philly date

The article on the Academy of Music and rock music is probably a typo (maybe) or a simple space out. Jon Takiff has been writing about pop music for the Philly Daily News for decades and is a knowledgeable guy and a good guy.

Far more egregious was an article on a Philly entertainment site that asked the question when did Dylan last play Center City Philadelphia (downtown for those who don't know) and got it completely wrong because they didn't even know he had played the Academy of Music.

That said as Takiff points out, the Academy's ban on rock music wasn't a total ban. Van Morrison played there on the Saint Dominic's Preview tour in 1972 and Randy Newman played the entire Good Old Boys album there in 1974 with an orchestra conducted by his uncle.


Entered at Mon Sep 29 17:38:27 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Basement Tapes

Just looking at the track list for the 6 CDs today … it's now in chronological order to Garth's numbering system. Nearly all the acetate / 1975 release material is on CD3 and CD4. It suggests to me they played around (CD1 and CD2) then consciously did demos of the songs Bob wanted to get around, all in a block with multiple takes, then played around again (CD5 and CD6). Any one else had a more detailed look?


Entered at Mon Sep 29 17:04:33 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Thanks, Pat

Yes, Pat. Another example of lacklustre carelessness in journalist writing. Thanks for the pickup. I think accuracy is important and the thing about history is that the dates are vital. 1965 Feb. vs 1966 Feb. is a big deal to me and should be to anyone who cares about the evolution of Dylan.


Entered at Mon Sep 29 16:25:09 CEST 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

A "History Lesson" would include the correct date--1966, not 1965.


Entered at Mon Sep 29 15:58:48 CEST 2014 from (68.70.61.190)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA
Web: My link

Subject: Academy of Music - Philadelphia

Article of interest that mentions some dates and the Band as part of the reason the Academy did not permit Rock acts from 1965 till this year. I will be seeing Neil Young here and cant wait.


Entered at Mon Sep 29 13:09:02 CEST 2014 from (173.3.51.166)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, I'm pretty sure the idea is to keep Studio A running as a studio, not an attraction.


Entered at Mon Sep 29 12:43:10 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: RCA Studio A

Good article on RCA studios in Nashville. We didn’t take the RCA Studio B Tour this summer. Somehow, you think, it’s not Sun or Stax or Motown or Muscle Shoals or Abbey Road, and Elvis got good again by returning to Memphis studios.

Nashville has a lot going for it with the massive state-of-the-art C&W Hall of Fame museum, and the Grand Ol’ Opry. Third Man Records is a pilgrimage for younger fans. The Ryman charged a lot of money for a peek inside, so we made do with the lobby. I have the feeling a replica of the RCA studio built at the Country Hall of Fame, or perhaps in the Grand Ol’ Opry parking lot would get as good a tourist footfall as the original bricks and mortar. After all, in Memphis, Stax is a modern replica of the original, not the actual building. Sun spent time as “not a studio” before being restored. I gladly stood on the X where Elvis stood, held an original Sun mic and had my photo taken though. I am a great believer in retaining historical sites but I wonder how big a studio attraction RCA Studio A is. See where Lawrence Welk recorded Sparkling Strings for Christmas, perhaps?


Entered at Mon Sep 29 05:27:05 CEST 2014 from (173.3.51.166)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: reel to real

the story linked been making noise a while, this piece has some different aspects represented than most others....


Entered at Sun Sep 28 23:58:25 CEST 2014 from (70.26.154.10)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Do you still possess that Karmann Ghia softtop, jh? Just curious....


Entered at Sun Sep 28 23:41:06 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Record Fair

Reading Record Fair today. I finally found a UK single of Up On Cripple Creek, and interestingly it has The Band, then all five names below, like early copies of Big Pink. I also saw Forever Young / On A Night Like This at three for £1 and picked it up though I have it, at 33 p you have to save it.

A surprise … a Marijohn Wilkin LP ("Words") but it was all religious stuff so I ignored it.


Entered at Sun Sep 28 21:48:33 CEST 2014 from (85.255.44.134)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

nice stage :-)


Entered at Sun Sep 28 19:25:02 CEST 2014 from (85.255.44.134)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

nice mercedes.


Entered at Sun Sep 28 01:33:34 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Martin Carthy & Dave Swarbrick

Martin Carthy … the guy who showed how to play songs to Bob Dylan & Paul Simon, with folk's most influential fiddle player, Dave Swarbrick. Saw them tonight, celebrating a near half century of playing together. Link to review.


Entered at Sat Sep 27 23:24:32 CEST 2014 from (58.104.17.6)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

An article about the recording of the Brown album I hadn't seen before.


Entered at Sat Sep 27 06:17:33 CEST 2014 from (24.114.80.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Carmen......Thank you for reminding me of Johnny Cash's "Hurt".....not just a stunning cover but the best "rock video" ever made....it came at the end of the art form ( and the death of the rock video was for many good reasons not mourned ) but there were cases - more than a few - where videos were great works of art....... "Hurt" cut to the bone of loss, failing health and music in a way that almost no 3 minutes of film ever has.


Entered at Fri Sep 26 22:06:20 CEST 2014 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: Kevin and covers

Kevin - you are correct - should have been ??? and then a !!!. Hendrix and Watchtower or Cash and Hurt IMHU are better than the originals. I still like Bruce's Atlantic City better than the Band's version but I will agree that Bruce changed the way he played this live after the Band's version came out.


Entered at Fri Sep 26 22:04:52 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

Although "Rag Mama Rag" was my first Band record, I didn't get it because I liked it (or even knew it); I got it because it cost a dime and I like "Up On Cripple Creek". And I liked the b-side, "Unfaithful Servant", better. So I can certainly synthesise with the junior version of Kevin J's feelings on the subject. But now I'd rate it top 5, top 10 for sure.

Since KJ et al mentioned the Little Feat version, I check YouTube and there it was - accomplished but nothing special to my ears, very unlike our guys' sparky version.

The pay-off from the YouTube visit was learning (at this advanced age!) that the Blind Boy Fuller song that I'd heard over the years shares a title - and general vibe and priorities - with the Band song.


Entered at Fri Sep 26 20:35:36 CEST 2014 from (74.108.29.164)

Posted by:

Joan

Subject: jh

Thank you it is all because of you. You are a "Super fan"


Entered at Fri Sep 26 10:54:45 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I was told that people who can program me ancient systems are coming out of retirement, as so many government essential functions are a tottering pile of add-ons built on a 70s or 80s base, and younger programmers can't deal with them. I read an article in the USA earlier in the year talking about military pensions relying on one of the oldest government programs and they're paying large sums for retired people to patch them up.

The foundations here must be brilliant for it still to look better and function better than most Wordpress 2014 stuff.


Entered at Fri Sep 26 09:56:24 CEST 2014 from (122.59.251.42)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: shell shocked

great work JH. Just spent a few hours today looking at our Linux servers - management are in a panic about the bash security hole even though our servers aren't exposed the the web.

Rag Mama Rag has always been in my top five Band songs. Little Feats version is good abut not as great as the original.


Entered at Fri Sep 26 04:00:11 CEST 2014 from (58.104.16.245)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I think the fact that this site still functions in terms of both content and technology says a lot about the ability of the guy that designed it!


Entered at Fri Sep 26 02:36:10 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.153)

Posted by:

Bill M

JH: You deserve your few - and then some!


Entered at Thu Sep 25 23:33:23 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Original for me. Yes, Little Feat covered it well, I would have enjoyed it live, but the original is unique.

I think for a cover to equal or eclipse an original it needs to have something radical or just be flat out better … Viva Las Vegas by Shawn Colvin is a benchmark. Or Suspicious Minds by Dee Dee Warwick. Or indeed, Twist & Shout by The Beatles or Come On by the Rolling Stones.

It can't just be wildly unusual either … Cat Power's Satisfaction is great, but nothing bears the original. The Civil Wars Billie Jean is fantastic, but still doesn't eclipse the original. k.d. lang gets close several times on Hymns of the 49th Parallel.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 22:52:17 CEST 2014 from (85.255.44.134)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

no more "quick cash" ads since the re-programming of the GB three days ago -- proceeding with fingers crossed. actually, it is rather amazing that this website and the GB still works, as the code base is 20 years old. then again, we´re using the GNU Linux Unix-clone, and a lot of the Unix stuff from the pre-Internet era 40+ years ago still works. e.g. the scripts used to do automatic updates of The Band site are all written for the Bourne shell from the mid-70s. all you need is love, command-line Unix and a good text editor written by Richard Stallman. yes, we´ve had a few tonight.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 22:46:53 CEST 2014 from (24.114.84.92)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

This isn't Joan Baez we're talking about for crying out loud........Little Feat do a great version of Rag Mama Rag........ain't nothing funny about that or them.

How many here would have Rag Mama Rag on a desert island The Band 10 song play list?


Entered at Thu Sep 25 22:13:18 CEST 2014 from (99.108.42.228)

Posted by:

Zavadka

Subject: Rag MaMa Rag

'Rag Mama Rag'. Still ain't nobody out there that can do that. I am honored to have made music with those unique, extraordinary, musicians and brothers in arms." - RR but Kevin J likes Little Feat's cover better. Now that's funny, I don't care who you are :)


Entered at Thu Sep 25 21:50:34 CEST 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: 5775

Not sure why my posts are not making it in so I will try again: If this succeeds and the previous one does also, my apologies:

Palindromic: Reflection at this time is a good thing and perhaps it will bring a positive outcome to the next year. Best to all, Jeff A, and anyone else!

Little Feat: I always have time for these musicians. 'Back in the day' they were the band's band even though the rest of humanity were a little slow on the uptake.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 21:30:55 CEST 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: 5775

Palindromic: Jeff A and others: A time for reflection is always worthwhile. Hopefully this will be the year for positive results of the symmetry.

As for Little Feat, I always (and still do) have time for this stellar band. They were known as the band's band (musicians loved them even if the public were slow to pick up on them. Sound familiar?)


Entered at Thu Sep 25 17:50:04 CEST 2014 from (67.87.216.40)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Different strokes - for me, no one could touch the original version of Rag Mama Rag. It' a masterpiece of indefinable beauty and is uncontainably joyful, musically and otherwise.
Thank you Mike.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 16:46:46 CEST 2014 from (24.114.84.237)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Carmen.......Really - followed by a question mark would indicate disagreement even astonishment....but Really - followed by an exclamation point as in your case would indicate agreement. Are you in agreement?

I was just never that taken with Rag Mama Rag growing up and hearing it on the radio......when an FM DJ would announce that The Band was up next, I would always hope for any of 15 or 20 other Band songs.......fast forward 25 years and Little Feat's version of the song really grabbed me.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 15:45:49 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ian W: Maltese is a semitic language, so most household words are close to Arabic equivalents. In the few words that I know, Q is silent, but I suspect that it originally was used to indicate a glottal stop (which is often an apostrophe (') when Arabic words are transliterated).


Entered at Thu Sep 25 15:23:06 CEST 2014 from (70.26.154.10)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Happy Rosh Hashanah, Jeff, and to all out there celebrating.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 15:05:51 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Web: My link

Subject: QATAR - pronunciation

Wiki gives a number of pronunciations, unfortunately rendered phonetically but, in this case, reasonably intelligible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar

In Malta, there are several place names with Arabic origins, and I always though the opening "Q", not followed by a "u" as in English, had a pronunciation that approximated the "ch" sound, as in the Scottish word "loch", with a sort-of gutteral aspiration at the end.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 12:37:01 CEST 2014 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: pa

Little Feat's version better than the Band? Really!


Entered at Thu Sep 25 09:44:50 CEST 2014 from (58.104.16.133)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I know in Australia a few years back the public broadcaster had a change of policy and decided to try and follow native pronunciation rather than using Anglicised (or at least Autralicised) pronunciation. I remember it well because when a Russian submarine sank, I believe it was the Kursk, the news readers would suddenly drop in to a Russian accent when talking about it.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 09:21:28 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Rambling aside on language

I don’t think Eye-rack is a British / American pronunciation question, actually. It’s not a tomato / tomarto thing. There’s a pretty good consensus in English about names for towns and countries. The cities and countries we Anglicize … Spain, Germany, Greece, Paris, Milan, Florence, Naples, Lisbon, Venice, Vienna, Munich etc … were all pretty much fixed hundreds of years ago. There are also places we have dropped the English names for, like Persia, Peking, Leghorn and Salonica …news reports would now say Iran, Beijing, Livorno and Thessalonika (even though it’s Thessaloniki in Greece).

My suspicion, shared by other observers, is the Eye-rack pronunciation originates in the second Gulf War. Having taught Iraqis and Iranians, and worked with Americans who also taught them, I never heard it used in the 70s to 90s. And other European languages all manage “i” not “eye”.

Qatar has a sound we don’t have in English. We also generally don’t have Q without “u”. G is probably the nearest conventional letter to the gutteral sound.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 06:24:42 CEST 2014 from (68.199.208.199)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Hey! till someone's a Yid, and have to deal with at least a quarter of your own people, and the rest of the world not being able to pronounce the CHET, that gutteral CH sound in Hebrew correctly, they've not fully encountered bastardization of lingo. Nope, it's not the sound of chet atkins CHET, and it's not the ch sound from SCHMUCK either. It's a CCHHH, and even many yehudim can't do it , and instead often just use a H...Shanah Tovah


Entered at Thu Sep 25 04:13:58 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Peter M......Tables can be turned of course as this isn't just a US thing.......very close to home for all of us is the fact that Robbie, Rick, Richard and Garth had such difficulty pronouncing "Lavon"correctly that the drummer went ahead and changed his name to "Levon"......rumours abound tonight that the rhythmically gifted citizens of Qatar have grouped together and agreed on "Cutter" to appease the Biff's and Betty's at CNN.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 03:09:09 CEST 2014 from (98.115.129.14)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Location: earth

Subject: potato/potahto? let's call the whole thing off

Your comment was most welcome, especially the "parochialism" aspect of it. Thanks for your insight. Until recently I just thought "Cutter" was an insecticide. In this country it seems we Americanize the pronounciations of many other countries' names, whether they like it or not.


Entered at Thu Sep 25 01:42:20 CEST 2014 from (58.104.16.133)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

This is a preview of Odds and Ends off the new BT set. The quality is fantastic.


Entered at Wed Sep 24 22:23:33 CEST 2014 from (70.53.44.120)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: 45 Years for The Band album

From Robbie Robertson's Facebook page:

"Hard to fathom, it was 45 yrs ago when 'THE BAND' album was released. Our first record ' Music From Big Pink' created such a stir that I felt a real challenge to step up and follow that act. Think I worked harder on The Band record, than anything before or after. I collapsed from exhaustion at one point. We ended up on the cover of Time magazine from that recording (which was extremely rare during that period.) And it was probably the closest we ever were as a musical unit. Yesterday I heard on radio station WFUV they were celebrating the anniversary of that record and they played 'Rag Mama Rag'. Still ain't nobody out there that can do that. I am honored to have made music with those unique, extraordinary, musicians and brothers in arms." - RR

Interesting to me that Rag Mama Rag is the song he comes back to so often......In a rare case of preferring a cover over a Band original performance.......I like Little Feat's version better.


Entered at Wed Sep 24 19:57:58 CEST 2014 from (70.53.44.120)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Reading Dave H’s linked column from Peter V on TLW and Bill’s nugget about Richard doing "Tura-Lura-Lura" with The Hawks and thinking back to what for me was the best bit on the GB this year – Simon’s linking of the Robbie work in progress of “Evangeline” at TLW concert – one does realize that there are still things to learn about The Band after all these years.

On pronunciations and other matters of the media……..anyone who has traveled or lived in parts of Canada outside the major 3 cities knows and appreciates how valuable CBC radio was. Waking up in a dingy little hotel room hung-over hundreds of miles from nowhere - sometimes just finding CBC on the dial could be enough to get you through a few hours. The on-air talent did have standards that largely were not found on private radio.


Entered at Wed Sep 24 17:36:10 CEST 2014 from (72.78.48.169)

Posted by:

PSB

Location: City of Brotherly Love

Subject: Tura Lura Lura

Just read Peter's article and Robbie's comments to VH1 are a bit spaced. Van moved to Woodstock from Cambridge, Massachusetts in the summer of '69 before The Band was released, not years later. (In fact the 45th anniversary of the release "The Band" was two days ago.)

45 years ago this Halloween, I found myself in the backseat of an Oldsmobile traveling from Woodstock to Boston, where the guy next to me would open for The Band for two shows in one of his most notorious concerts ever at the Boston Symphony. It was my 2nd Band concert and their Boston debut. Hours later, I tried to make myself as invisible as possible at the after show party as Rick Danko asked Van if he ever played chess or checkers.

That said, Van would talk often about how he wanted to do an album of Ray Charles covers with Richard Manuel.


Entered at Wed Sep 24 17:00:17 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Yes, phonetics are a problem in learner's dictionaries, but if reading them is hard, try typing them! There are special fonts, and you'll be doing something like OPTION-SHIFT-3 to get a character. After about ten years I got used to the complex keystrokes in the font Oxford uses (their own, you can't buy it) then you do something for another publisher, and they us a different one with totally different keystrokes for the same phonetic characters.


Entered at Wed Sep 24 16:22:21 CEST 2014 from (100.38.21.92)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Mavis Staples to be Honored

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/stars-pay-tribute-mavis-staples-25694891


Entered at Wed Sep 24 15:59:02 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: A review of the new Leonard Cohen. Yes, it is the hometown newspaper but Bernard Perusse is a music writer that I hold in very high regard.

I've yet to purchase the album but will soon.


Entered at Wed Sep 24 14:15:34 CEST 2014 from (217.159.246.52)

Posted by:

Tom

Location: Norway
Web: My link

Subject: The Band

Great website and offcourse even better band!


Entered at Wed Sep 24 13:00:12 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dictionaries of pronunciation

Thanks for the information, Peter.

Even though one of my grandfathers is said to have worked for the Oxford press (he was a shopkeeper when I knew him), I'm a Chambers man myself. Chambers dictionaries also include a pronunciation guide and, fortunately for someone like me, it is not phonetic pronunciation that is used; it uses a "respelling" system, which I find more intelligible.

I enjoy the quirkiness of some of Chambers definitions, which is an aspect that would possibly be confusing in an EFL setting.


Entered at Wed Sep 24 10:51:14 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: BBC Pronouncing Dictionary

Mine is ancient … I see there is a new one published by Oxford, as the Oxford BBC Guide to Pronunciation. It used to be called "The BBC Prounouncing Dictionary of British Names" but I'm pretty sure it did all the countries and major cities too … anyway, these are all listed in the appendices of EFL Learner dictionaries. The Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary of English is a great dictionary … I very rarely need to go beyond it, and because it is a learner's dictionary, it gives pronunciation for all entries.


Entered at Wed Sep 24 10:12:38 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: BBC pronunciation dictionary ?

Peter, I didn't realise that there was an actual BBC dictionary of pronunciation. I always thought that the BBC had a special department that determined pronunciation, a department that broadcast staff were expected to consult if in doubt.


Entered at Wed Sep 24 03:50:41 CEST 2014 from (58.104.23.141)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Speaking of TLW, I see Relix has it at number 7 on their list of the greatest concerts in the period 1959-2009.


Entered at Wed Sep 24 02:15:30 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.145)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: an eye-rish lullaby

Jon L / Dave H: One of the 'standard' live tapes of the Hawks pre-Dylan has Richard singing "Tura-Lura-Lura". So it makes perfect sense for Robbie to think of the song with Van on the bill.


Entered at Tue Sep 23 19:50:44 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I had to check the TLW article myself! You forget stuff, or I do.

The BBC Pronouncing Dictionary was held to be the final word on Proper Names here, though they're drifting on some, notably the annoying "wold" replacing "world." It was originally compiled for internal BBC use, but has assumed standard status.


Entered at Tue Sep 23 18:55:54 CEST 2014 from (136.167.102.190)

Posted by:

Dave H

Web: My link

Peter V's article on Van at the Last Waltz (linked above) has the relevant quotes and more info.


Entered at Tue Sep 23 18:53:54 CEST 2014 from (136.167.102.190)

Posted by:

Dave H

Jon L: Robbie has said in interviews that "Tura-Lura-Lural" was his idea. He said that when he originally proposed it, Van Morrison replied sarcastically that they could do "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling" too. But apparently Van could get talked into it (maybe the duet with Richard appealed to him) and I agree that it's a highlight of the show.


Entered at Tue Sep 23 17:29:47 CEST 2014 from (74.203.77.122)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

Today's random question. I'm curious about Tura Lura Lural (Irish Lullaby) as performed at the Last Waltz. Such a lovely Richard/Van duet and arrangement.

As far as I know, none of the performers had played it before nor ever returned to it. Any idea who (Robbie, Van, Richard) first brought it to the table as a Last Waltz performance candidate?


Entered at Tue Sep 23 16:09:04 CEST 2014 from (131.137.35.83)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: let's call the whole thing off

There are very few places whose names we pronounce the same way the natives do, so a preference for our mispronunciation over their mispronunciation is just parochialism.

It does seem to me that we used to get more consistency e.g. from the CBC newsreaders, as though they had a style sheet; now it's every (wo)man for her(him) self. Slavic names are a special pain, it's never clear to me which syllable gets the stress -- recent events in Ukraine have produced some real howlers on the airwaves . . . .


Entered at Tue Sep 23 15:27:17 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: I suspect it's mostly a putdown, slightly defensible by pointing out that the closest English word, 'iron', is both macho and has a long 'i'. Same with 'Eye-talian' (though not 'Eye-tally').


Entered at Tue Sep 23 15:11:40 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Unlike Eye-rak which had to be intentional, no other explanation really, Qatar, in fairness, is much less known but the funny bit was hearing Ka-tar, Kuh-tar, Cutter and the knee slapper Gutter all used by the same newsreaders in one night.


Entered at Tue Sep 23 09:08:41 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Piss-pronunciation

Piss-pronunciation, as Ronnie Barker's hilarious sketch used to say. I've often wondered about the pronunciation of Eye-rak and Eye-ran in the USA … everywhere else in the world says i as in ink: i-rak, i-ran. An Iranian teacher mentioned it to me once and wondered if the wrong pronunciation was a deliberate putdown? (We can't be bothered to say it the way you do). I don't know.

How did they say Qatar?


Entered at Tue Sep 23 05:43:16 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Jeff.....Too funny, I did know a Lise Boudoin who stole my zippo one night at Chez Parée.......I wonder if they are related? ......anyhow, as long as the sexy Stéphanie doesn't behead any journalists from the US - the rest of Canada should be safe from having our country bombed..... What a night......hearing US anchor men and ladies pronounce Qatar 101 different ways Is a hoot.

For relief .....LINKED Brigitte Bardot


Entered at Tue Sep 23 02:13:42 CEST 2014 from (68.199.208.69)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: More Gun Carrying Canadians Tn The News.

See The Link.

who'da thunk the worlds sexiest criminal would be Canadian? Russian, Colombian, etc, maybe, but, Canadian? Though, she definitely might be it. I'm just glad it's not Sarah Palin, who isn't really sexy anyway.....


Entered at Tue Sep 23 00:38:33 CEST 2014 from (68.199.208.69)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Troublemakers!

Linked, from Canada.....Kevin - any relation?


Entered at Mon Sep 22 21:54:49 CEST 2014 from (85.255.44.134)

Posted by:

jh

Testing... trying to get rid of the annoying ads. Jeez... why do they bother.


Entered at Mon Sep 22 18:54:27 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Subject: Leave Me Alone

Thanks Bill M - LINKED.


Entered at Mon Sep 22 18:35:47 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

On Saturday night I had the pleasure of seeing "Leave Me Alone", our guys' very first b-side, performed live and excitingly by the Sadies at my neighbourhood's music fest.

And on Thursday I saw a terrific instrumental jazz version of "The Weight" performed by a piano-bass-drums trio at a neighbourhood pub.

What's that, a dime in royalties for Robbie in just three days?


Entered at Mon Sep 22 16:21:33 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Zoot Money

Zoot Money article is now on line at Toppermost … please comment there.


Entered at Mon Sep 22 15:26:37 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Patrick Leonard's connection to The Band is that he produced the Rod Stewart hit "Broken Arrow" - a cover of the Robbie Robertson song.


Entered at Mon Sep 22 14:24:37 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Popular Problems

The new Leonard Cohen is out here today … most of it co-written with producer Patrick Leonard. It'a a pity not to see his stage band there, but the essential female vocalist alongside him is Dana Glover this time. So that's what's playing today.


Entered at Mon Sep 22 09:04:33 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Thanks, Pat. What surprises me is that I had never heard of this Sting / Simon combination in spite of reading Mojo, Uncut, Record Collector faithfully. First I knew was a Ticketmaster advert in the Sunday Times.


Entered at Mon Sep 22 03:38:46 CEST 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

Peter, this should give you an idea of what you are in for.


Entered at Sun Sep 21 20:20:02 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Simon & Sting

Many thanks, Kevin.Most inspiring. I'm thrilled I have tickets. I've copied off that review for re-reading closer the time, though that'll mean finding where I've put it. Unlike the Dylan / Simon concerts, it seems they'll be doing a lot of songs together … Every Breath You Take is one to look forward to as a duet. I never followed Sting solo in detail, but I had an instant interest in The Police from seeing Andy Somers / Summers with Zoot Money (a forthcoming Toppermost) a dozen years before stardom arrived.


Entered at Sun Sep 21 19:43:59 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Peter.....LINKED a review of Sting and Paul Simon from a Toronto show this Summer. Not really a fan of Sting's but he has a very good reputation for live shows dating back to The Police days and his bands are always top shelf.....and of course he does have one of the 4 or 5 most special voices in pop music over the last 40 years.


Entered at Sun Sep 21 15:19:42 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Paul Simon & Sting

Just got tickets for Paul Simon & Sting in April (Birmingham rather than London). Odd combination, which I hope doesn't mean Paul's regular bass player is absent. We went for £88 tickets, but the top is £138 ($224) though there are "front row" and "VIP" packages as well. I suppose to get maximum enjoyment I'll have to listen to some Sting albums … still 6 months to go.


Entered at Sun Sep 21 09:58:32 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Life of Brian & Agora

I enjoyed the clip, Kevin. It reminds me of Agora, a film I greatly admire (link to my old review) but which is sent careering off the rails at a vital point for any fan of Monty Python. Mentioned at the end.


Entered at Sun Sep 21 03:05:49 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Subject: Bob Dylan and the Bible

Thanks Bonk. I guess the Bible might qualify as well........Speaking of things biblical.....the attached LINK is funny and can also make one reflect on the life of Bob Dylan.


Entered at Sun Sep 21 01:24:00 CEST 2014 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Keven J

Kevin. The only two I can think of are Mario Puzo and Ian Flemming. Not too bad but probably to each their own.


Entered at Sat Sep 20 20:52:53 CEST 2014 from (91.157.184.3)

Posted by:

Jarmo Luukka

Location: Finland

I've heard of this band's music a long time ago


Entered at Sat Sep 20 18:51:22 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Yes, and excellent article by PSB which is the lead item on Expecting Rain today. Has there ever been a book "finished up" by someone else years after the original writer has passed on that has been worth reading?


Entered at Sat Sep 20 18:02:50 CEST 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: JT

Thanks for the warning JT. I was going to buy it today.


Entered at Sat Sep 20 11:56:48 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Another Side of Victor M's take. Read PSB

A critical review. Counterpunch article by Peter Stone Brown gives the reader some insight and Dylan remains elusive.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/19/riding-shotgun-with-dylan/


Entered at Sat Sep 20 11:16:30 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Let me add to these kind offers from the UK, if anyone wants to borrow a fiver or even a tenner, just ask. I only charge 20% interest (per day).


Entered at Sat Sep 20 03:11:12 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.137)

Posted by:

Bill M

To add to Wolfgang's note, Terry Danko's record on the Counterpoint label was when he and Jim Atkinson were members of Tin Pan Alley, just before they both were hired into Ronnie Hawkins' band in the early '70s. Brantford-based Counterpoint was established in the late '60s by Gerry Risser, Garth Hudson's bandmate in Paul London and the Capers. He co-wrote the b-side of the Capers' first 45.


Entered at Fri Sep 19 22:21:56 CEST 2014 from (80.187.100.192)

Posted by:

Wolfgang

Location: Hamburg/Germany
Web: My link

Subject: TERRY DANKO IN CONCERT:

Terry Danko (Rick Danko's Brother) IN CONCERT: September 20 2014-Simcoe Royal,Canadian Legion, Concert Infos:http://allevents.in/simcoe/fundraiser-for-dave-lane/291749767695942 (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Terry Danko Born 1949 Greens Corners, Ontario, Canada Genres Rock Occupations Musician, songwriter Instruments Vocals, bass, percussion, guitar, piano, drums Years active 1961–present Labels Columbia, Epic, Cobalt Blue, Counterpoint Associated acts Bearfoot, Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks, Tin Pan Alley, Atkinson, Danko and Ford, Rendezvous, Terry Danko, Marty Grebb and Friends, The Pencils, The Fossils, Rick Danko, Paul Butterfield, Gary Busey's Buddy Holly Tour, Rosie and The Screamers, The Newport Trio, The Deacons, Ron Coleman and the Sundance Band, Lee Schott Terry Danko (born 1949) is a Canadian musician and songwriter who has been active since childhood. He has written, performed and recorded his own material as a solo artist and as a member of a number of groups, such as Tin Pan Alley, Bearfoot and Terry Danko, Marty Grebb and Friends. Danko has also worked as an accompanist and/or session musician for several notable acts, such as Ronnie Hawkins, Eric Clapton, Stephen Stills, George Harrison, The Rolling Stones and his brother, former member of The Band, the late Rick Danko.


Entered at Fri Sep 19 21:16:20 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: The Scottish referendum

Though born and bred within 12 miles of central London, I have many links with Scotland. I first went there in 1961, not on holiday with my parents but on my own, and di so again in 1962 and 1963. As it happens, I married a Scot. I lived and worked there for 10 years, during which my three children were born there. In 1979, I voted for devolution. Later, for some 25 years, I lived barely 8 miles south of the border and worked in Scotland for a good chunk of that time.Many of my family members have long been strong advocates of independence. I have followed the referendum campaign closely and with great interest for months now.

Seeing the polls trending towards a "yes" vote in the referendum, I feared that the Separatists would achieve their aim, resulting in a break-up of the United Kingdom. I was last in Scotland for two weeks in late July and early August this year and consoled myself with the perception that, whilst the "yes" supporters were passionate, vocal and active, they had framed the debate in a way that suppressed an open display of the opposite view.

I woke up several times during last night, each time checking the radio for news of the voting, and I finally woke and got up very early this morning to watch events unfold on TV.

I am much relieved by the outcome. I voted for devolution in 1979 because I wanted the development of a federal Britain. I do not not know how UK politics will develop in the coming months but there is greater chance of acheiving that as the result of the vote in Scotland than there was earlier this year.



Entered at Fri Sep 19 17:10:19 CEST 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Peter V's thoughts about latest voting

I disagree. - Sweden and Norway had an union for over one hundred years ago. I'm glad that Norwegians broke up and formed succesfully an independent nation. Swedes would never have opened an University College in Halden and we would not be able to have this gb. So, we don't know what the loss might be with this "now" in Scotland.


Entered at Fri Sep 19 15:08:25 CEST 2014 from (131.137.35.83)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: blood, sweat and tears down in the flood

BS&T 1972 with one Jerry Fisher on vocals.

Silica capsules - don't know if they slow loss or resurrect the departed, but they surely improve the quality of the remaining . . . .


Entered at Fri Sep 19 13:55:35 CEST 2014 from (58.104.5.11)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

A cool tribute to Rick. Also check out the video linked in the first of the comments.


Entered at Fri Sep 19 13:40:51 CEST 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Dylan Another Side

August 2014 marks 50 years since Bob Dylan released his fourth album, Another Side of Bob Dylan. Recorded in one night, in the middle of a turbulent year in his life, the album marked a departure from Dylan's socially-conscious folk songs and began his evolution toward other directions.

During the years they spent together, few people outside of Dylan's immediate family were closer than Victor Maymudes, who was Dylan’s tour manager, personal friend, and travelling companion from the early days in 1960s Greenwich Village through the late 90’s. Another Side of Bob Dylan recounts landmark events including Dylan's infamous motorcycle crash; meeting the Beatles on their first US tour; his marriage to Sara Lownds, his romances with Suze Rotolo, Joan Baez, and others; fellow travelers Ramblin' Jack Elliott, Wavy Gravy, Dennis Hopper, The Band, The Traveling Wilburys, and more; memorable concerts, and insights on Dylan's songwriting process.

On January 26th, 2001, after recording more than 24 hours of taped memories in preparation for writing this book, Victor Maymudes suffered an aneurysm and died. His son Jacob has written the book, using the tapes to shape the story. The result is a vivid, first-hand account of Dylan as an artist, friend, and celebrity, illustrated with never-before-seen photographs, and told by an engaging raconteur who cut his own swathe through the turbulent counterculture.


Entered at Fri Sep 19 13:13:22 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Woke Up This Morning …

I’m pleased to wake up still in a United Kingdom. I predicted 55 to 45. (OK, that’s a fib. Like everyone else, I had no idea). It would have been awful if it was 51 to 49. One radio analysis this morning said that the ploy of giving the vote to 16 and 17 year olds, while refusing a vote to Scots resident in England had backfired, because there was a gender gap with more boys voting yes, but girls no.

I kept out of commenting … it was Scotland’s choice, but Scots I know in England were incensed at being refused a vote. An example was an electrician from Aberdeen I know. He’d done his time on the oil rigs, but wanted to be with his young family rather than away for weeks at a time, so moved south because there’s a lot of building work here. He fully intends to get a nest egg together over a few years and move back. But he didn’t get a vote.

Another comment is that a “Yes” vote would have been irrevocable, but the “No” won’t be. The SNP will try again and again … though I think it only right that this is now “settled for a generation” at least.

While the Czech Republic and Slovakia stand as an example of how to divorce peacefully and sensibly, virtually every other example of more borders in the world today is negative. The Scots and English fought for 500 years before being united under one monarch in 1603, then a full political union 100 years later. Since then, peace, except for football, but both sides enjoy that. You can discount the 1745 Rebellion as Bonnie Prince Charlie had never been to Scotland previously, spoke Italian and French better than English, spoke no Gaelic, and saw it as a route to the English throne … it was arguably Lowland v Highland as much as England v Scotland. In a little piece of irony, Bonnie Prince Charlie’s important supporters were the Clan Cameron, and David is their descendant.

Anyway, my son will be relieved. I told him (I lied of course) that independence would mean we would put huge import duties on Scotch while reducing the tax on gin, and he’s a great malt fan.


Entered at Fri Sep 19 06:12:42 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

54%-46% - at Midnite in Toronto.


Entered at Fri Sep 19 03:54:17 CEST 2014 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

Bonk

Subject: Wallsend

Now that article made me chuckle. Good one!


Entered at Fri Sep 19 00:02:05 CEST 2014 from (58.104.5.11)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Quite a funny article about worst celebrities interviews in which Rick gets a mention.


Entered at Thu Sep 18 19:56:53 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.154)

Posted by:

Bill M

Kevin J: Thanks for the clarification, to which I will add the thought that Gordon Brown should bottle himself as a solution that will call the receding hair back home where it belongs.


Entered at Thu Sep 18 19:32:14 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I'll reserve that for tomorrow when I can't be wrong, Kevin. Just to say after a day with the new Jesse Winchester, it is brilliant. The originals are great. The three covers … Devil or Angel, Whispering Bells, Rhythm of The Rain … are sublime.


Entered at Thu Sep 18 16:15:17 CEST 2014 from (24.114.56.139)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Please note that Peter V's latest post is actually an editorial comment on Scotland.

Best to Dunc.


Entered at Thu Sep 18 13:09:54 CEST 2014 from (58.104.8.140)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Speaking of people who don't have hair anymore, this is Dave Mason playing All Along the Watchtower.


Entered at Thu Sep 18 08:13:52 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Bugger! It's too late once it's all gone on top. Still. Patrick Stewart is an impressive looking bloke.


Entered at Thu Sep 18 00:54:34 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Web: My link

Subject: The Be Bop Massager

The Denman Be Bop Massager, used, more vigorously than is indicated here, whenever you shower and/or wash your hair may not redress hair loss but is claimed by some to slow the loss. It may or may not work for you but, being relatively cheap, it's worth a try.

http://www.denmanbrush.com/acatalog/Denman-D6-black-be-bop-massage-brush.html

For those beyond our shores, VAT is the national sales tax, usually included in advertised/posted prices.


Entered at Wed Sep 17 22:34:33 CEST 2014 from (58.104.14.147)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Kevin J, I thought that was leading up to the hair transplant.


Entered at Wed Sep 17 22:10:43 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

20 years from now Sir Elton baffles his admirers by recognizing his biggest mistake was not the Donald Duck outfit on stage or $17.5 million spent on freshly cut flowers or ”Don’t Go Breaking My Heart” or “The Weight” at the Grammy’s but actually the years spent as Reggie Dwight and drinking Instant Coffee.


Entered at Wed Sep 17 19:14:24 CEST 2014 from (173.3.50.141)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Trudie Styler linked, married to baldness and thriving.


Entered at Wed Sep 17 18:57:26 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

….and somewhere Trudie Styler can be heard screaming……. “that bloody husband of mine goes for 6 hours at a time and he’s still losing his hair!”

On the other hand, Page, Plant, McCartney, Jagger and Rod the Mod all still carry a comb!


Entered at Wed Sep 17 18:39:46 CEST 2014 from (173.3.50.141)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Barber Shop Advise

Pragmatic, enjoyable, wholistic, but often more costly in the long run barber shop advise for our younger, follicularly challenged male readers: Find a woman who screws you senseless, and that will make your hair more luxuriant & last longer, whilst also making the rest of you look and feel better too.


Entered at Wed Sep 17 18:24:23 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: To our younger readers

I massaged those expensive Redken drops in daily for years when my hair started to go. Do not be caught. Hair restorers are a total waste of money. Ask one who's tried!


Entered at Wed Sep 17 17:29:10 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

…..and noticing a few hairs in the sink would be “Coverdale-Page” I guess………………anyhow, very funny – and long live the heavy metal squirrels.


Entered at Wed Sep 17 16:36:02 CEST 2014 from (173.3.50.141)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, there's sunshowers, and there's hurricanes. There's one hit wonders, and then there's The Beatles, Led Zepellin, The Stones, y'know what i mean...,.There's temporary hair loss, and there's there's male baldness. Big difference.Say I'm The Led Zepellin of male pattern baldness. The period i described can be considered the follicular equivalent of one of those tours they did with Jason Bonham in his dad's place...


Entered at Wed Sep 17 10:52:42 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Jesse Winchester

Just pre-ordered it on amazon, dues out next week in England, BUT they had auto rip download available already, so it's already up and playing and will be all day! Rhythm of The Rain was always a favorite. Great cover. The Montreal review chose well in picking out A Little Louisiana.


Entered at Wed Sep 17 09:31:52 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Sorry, no link in the previous one. I had typed the "Subject" (Hair loss) in the Web Page box.


Entered at Wed Sep 17 09:29:14 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Hair loss. Jeff, it can be temporary rather than male baldness. Back in 1977 I shared an office with my co-writer and he chain-smoked. We had a confrontation and I said I couldn’t take more than one or two an hour. Our benevolent employer had provided a free coffee machine for staff, conveniently situated two doors away in the staff room. So he switched to coffee, drinking four or five an hour all day long … addictive personalities. Now in 1977 the coffee machine was crude. It was called MaxPax, and consisted of a stack of paper cups, pre-loaded with instant coffee which dropped and filled with water. It was Maxwell House. He started to get bald patches on his face where the beard stopped growing, then started getting random patches on his head. He also noticed numbness around the mouth. I was noticing numbness too, for half an hour after a cup of the coffee. He sought medical advice, and took the dry coffee cup with him. Instant coffee had additives to stop it sticking together, but in the steaming atmosphere inside machine, it needed one hell of a lot of additive to keep the coffee as powder. He stopped the coffee and the hair grew back.

I have never knowingly drunk instant coffee since. I can detect it fast too. In a reasonably expensive restaurant last year they came round after the meal with silver pots of coffee. I took one sip and said, 'This is instant coffee.' The waiter said it wasn't. I asked for the manager who agreed (a) it was one of the new expensive brands in the silver tins (Azurro?), and (b) removed it from the bill.

I have a theory that the additive was metal based. We had squirrels in the loft, and they’d eaten through the wooden boarding between roof and wall. We scared them out, and put a sheet of metal (aluminium?) over the hole. It took them a week to eat through the metal, and get back in. Whereupon we saw them cavorting in the garden, and both had bald patches in their fur, just like my partner’s hair a few years earlier. Mrs V was most upset that we had poisoned them. I had a double of layer of metal with mesh over it put up.


Entered at Wed Sep 17 02:05:15 CEST 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F.

Web: My link

Subject: New Jesse Winchester

Far East Man, I agree completely. It's a wonderful record. Link is to review from the Montreal Gazette .


Entered at Wed Sep 17 01:32:41 CEST 2014 from (66.243.210.92)

Posted by:

Far East Man

Listening to the new Jesse Winchester album today. Good stuff. What an amazing talent...


Entered at Wed Sep 17 01:04:21 CEST 2014 from (67.87.217.152)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Georgia Vera

Pete, my ex old lady Georgia, made my hair grow back. Dramatically. This was back when i was 38, she a dozen years younger. I'd run into people i hadn't seen in few months and they'd ask me if i was using minoxidil or rogaine or both. No joke....nothing ever bothered me in those days eoither. House coulda fallen down around me, wouldn't bother me... We're talking round 96 and 97, First song i ever wrote was in the aftermath, and the hair growing back is in the song... My School For Fools song also was a result of that relationship... cause when i began coming out of the ether,and the realizations that come with that were rising, i'd be up 4:40, 5:30 in the morning, shaving, look in the mirror and laugh at myself, saying you dumb mutha..... you are a happy fool ain't ya, then one morning i said to myself, yeah man, you are a fool, you're a professional, you could open a school, give lessons, call it School For Fools.... well there ya go......i used to crack myself up those mornings, shaving.. That first song. the title of which i will withhold for now, ..one of these says i'll release it, either as single or on a whole cd, but if it is on a cd, there's another one gotta go out first.... sitting on 2 discs worth now, one is mixed, one isn't. Of course, the unmixed one is the killer, commercially very viable project.

That relationship was either directly or indirectly good for well over a dozen songs, over half already published.

The aloe, i only bought the aloe to mix into the nutribullet shakes. But i had the skin with the gel on it left over, figured what the hell..... sometime i forget my hat home, and all the years i worked 10, 12 hour days outside hatless, i;m a good risk for skin cancer, doctors always yelled at me about it......figured might as well rub the aloe up there.


Entered at Tue Sep 16 23:19:52 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Aloe vera does not make your hair grow back. Nor does Redken. You should have asked me before spending your money.


Entered at Tue Sep 16 23:01:57 CEST 2014 from (67.87.217.152)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Listened again to the end, I must be high to have reacted that way the first time...... maybe rubbing the aloe vera leaf on my head had some effect..... got a nutribullet, skinned some aloe vera, threw the gel in with the concoction ingredients, took the inside of the skin and put it to use....hasn't made my hair grow back but may explains my return to frequent posting..


Entered at Tue Sep 16 22:53:49 CEST 2014 from (67.87.217.152)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Montego Bay

See the link.. Remember Montego Bay? Bobbby Bloom. The emotion in his voice, when he sings oh what a beautiful....etc... well, must be old age, but a good while now, that kind of honest artistic emotion, that kind of legitimacy of talent paired with emotion, gets me right in the breadbasket and choked up. Can't help but wonder if the referenced or sampled song was legally acquired and compensated. I'd imagine so....


Entered at Tue Sep 16 21:14:10 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

It’s official……The Band will enter the Canadian Walk of Fame this year. The late Jeff Healey is also being honoured……….Robbie Robertson’s Face book page is reporting that The Band is the first band to be so honoured……..They are not….Blue Rodeo and The Guess Who are already in…..I think Rush might be as well………anyhow, the good news is that they are in now.

Next Up: Gilles Villeneuve.


Entered at Tue Sep 16 15:15:25 CEST 2014 from (24.114.58.102)

Posted by:

Kevin J

NPR has the new Leonard Cohen available for free listening......love what I've heard so far...........also love that for the last month or two, every time I have gone to YouTube, a promo for the new L.Cohen album popped up......certainly better to get music when searching out music than a credit card ad........anyway, it was clever and a trend I don't mind.


Entered at Tue Sep 16 09:16:08 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Lee G,. try "fiction" followed by the at sign followed by "viney" then uk dot com.


Entered at Mon Sep 15 21:57:40 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

LP inner sleeves are usually plain, but particularly late 60s and 70s were used for advertising. I just picked up a 1971 CBS inner sleeve (unfortunately on an A&M album) and it takes a side to explain the difference between cassette and 8-track. The greatest virtue of a cassette is "It is the size of a packet of cigarettes." Well, ten not twenty, but that advertising already seems so alien and long ago.


Entered at Mon Sep 15 18:33:15 CEST 2014 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Scholarly work personified

Ian W: I look forward to the fruits of your labour. If it is anything akin to what you have already graced us with in the past, then we are all in for a treat. Best regards.


Entered at Mon Sep 15 18:01:35 CEST 2014 from (68.199.208.161)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Hey Bill, rest easy... I, for one, certainly did not know that.


Entered at Mon Sep 15 13:43:20 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.142)

Posted by:

Bill M

At the risk of pointing out something that everybody already knows, Peter Gzowski penned not only the Maclean's article on Dylan, but also (with Ian Tyson) "Song For Canada", which Dylan and the Hawks recorded in the Basement Tapes.


Entered at Mon Sep 15 01:58:35 CEST 2014 from (68.199.208.93)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Yeah Jon, Rodeo Bar's gone since July. Was a great place, Guys like Bill Kirchen and Sleepy La Beef made it their regular NYC gig for many years. Guys like Brian Mitchell, Hugh Poole, and a lot of the NYC "country acts" also had pretty regular gigs there for decades...


Entered at Mon Sep 15 01:17:37 CEST 2014 from (82.132.218.73)

Posted by:

Lee G

Subject: Dat tape

Hi Peter, apologies don't have your email. Yes you did me a copy which I already had from my friends studio. His father, Keith Hopwood, is/was a well known musician and a fan of The Band. I have a Hawks tape that I believe is not in circulation been sat in my loft for 8 years. I'll review it soon


Entered at Sun Sep 14 22:49:05 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

For the Commonwealth citizens, review of Mike Bartlett's "future history" play King Charles III linked.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 20:57:10 CEST 2014 from (24.199.71.83)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

What a shame about the Rodeo Bar closing... I hadn't heard that. Seen many a fun show there over the years (notably, Levon/The Last Hombres in 2004).


Entered at Sun Sep 14 19:22:26 CEST 2014 from (184.145.65.238)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Thanks for that, JT (aka JerTen). Dick Loek, as I recall, was one of the better T.O. news shooters (i.e., photographers). So it's no surprise that these shots are particularly good for an indoor crowd venue.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 17:44:32 CEST 2014 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Dylan and the Hawks etc

Ian W: Try this link. https://digital.library.yorku.ca/islandora/search/bob%20dylan?type=dismax


Entered at Sun Sep 14 16:13:52 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan + Hawks : Toronto 1965

JT, I tried the York University website but found it difficult to locate the material you mentioned. Do you have a specific link, by any chance?

As for what I'm working on, it's a long-term project. The more you dig, the more find there is still to be found. I'll draw it to a close some time, I guess. Meanwhile, I keep a-searching.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 16:03:38 CEST 2014 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: 1965 Toronto Telegram

Ian W: York University in Toronto has an archive with some interesting material from the newspaper, the Toronto Telegram.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 15:54:08 CEST 2014 from (184.145.65.238)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Ian W: Thanks, I'll look into it.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 15:45:52 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan + Hawks - November 1965

Mike N, sorry. If there is a link, I'm afraid I've never come across it.

It must be over 30 years ago that someone sent me the article (not the whole magazine, just the pages with the article)and, in those days, MACLEAN'S was published in quite a large format, so perhaps that makes it difficult to scan.

One of the photos is from behind the stage and shows Dylan with some of the Hawks. Since the photographer was shooting into the lights, they are all more in outline. The other photos in the article were just of Dylan.

However, I used the one with the Hawks as the centrespread in a fanzine called OCCASIONALLY (#5, October 1985). That or the original MACLEAN'S may be available for purchase on-line.



Entered at Sun Sep 14 15:09:36 CEST 2014 from (68.199.208.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

So, the non focus of the article is the fact that Belton's band is playing there for the last time because - there's a bitch over pay. The club is paying them a 7 buck door charge, not giving them a guarantee. Ties in to prior conversation here. Whether that's a new arrangement for this band with this club, unsatisfactory to the band, or a longer standing arrangement that has recently become insufficient, who knows. i recall, back in 2002, calling City HAll REcords, and Peter Albin, ( Big Brother, The Dinosaurs, this band, a pile of others) answering the phone.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 15:05:52 CEST 2014 from (184.145.65.238)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Ian W: Any link to that Gzowski Macleans article?


Entered at Sun Sep 14 14:41:09 CEST 2014 from (68.199.208.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Bob, i haven't heard it. Thanks for the heads up. Psat, i thought the article was written in a weird way, and that explains it. It any event, it wasn't clear, probably a case of bad editing. I wondered why there was no previous mention, why my friends hadn't said anything.....Rodeo Bar, a long time country and rockabilly joint here in NY, closed 2 months back, with just a few days notice... So a surprise closing wouldn't have been the first recent one.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 14:18:11 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan + Hawks in Toronto, November 1965

Peter Gzowski's article entitled "Dylan - An Explosion of Poetry" (MACLEAN'S, 22 January 1966) includes a review of one of the November 1965 concerts. It has some nice photos, too.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 13:01:33 CEST 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Poco

Jefff, thanks for the link. I love Poco. Did you hear the recently released Poco cd 'Live At Columbia Studios 9/30/71? Wonderful recording.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 10:47:18 CEST 2014 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: The musicians/band calls it a night

Thanks, Pat. I read it again.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 06:46:14 CEST 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

The Saloon is not closing. Try reading the article.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 04:52:22 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.129)

Posted by:

Bill M

Location: Tronto

JT: Not a great week for key record producers of the olden days. Among Bob Crewe's productions were a handful of 45s by two Toronto R&B singers who would have either guested with our guys' at Hawkins shows or taken part in after-hours jams with them at the Bluenote. One, "Big Town Boy" by Shirley Matthews, was a huge hit (#1 in Toronto); her other three didn't do so well, and neither did "Heartaches" by Jayson King.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 03:30:31 CEST 2014 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: And yet again...

From NY Times:"Bob Crewe, who helped create a parade of indelible hits, most notably for Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons, including “Sherry,” “Walk Like a Man,” “Rag Doll” and Mr. Valli’s soaring anthem of adoration “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You,” died on Thursday in Scarborough, Me. He was 83"


Entered at Sun Sep 14 02:00:02 CEST 2014 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Cosimo Matassa - he mattered

Two records that mattered to me: "Just A Dream" (Jimmy Clanton) and "I Know (You Don't Love Me No More)" (Barbara George); Just 2 of so many which need to be recalled in the legacy of a man who mattered.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 01:23:24 CEST 2014 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Small venues continue to go down

The Saloon closes (San Francisco North Beach): We had the same kind of loss in Toronto with the demise of the El Mocambo. We also lost a lot of great 50s-60s Yorkville clubs in the 70s with the gentrification of that area and the replacement with high end stores. In my view, a mix of clubs and stores would have made the area more appealing. The show must go on. Small clubs are disappearing in droves. Sad! The best shows we see in Victoria are at Alex Goolden Hall (hundreds only get in and seated). I must say, I'm no fan (as I've previously noted of hockey arenas and I'm not too happy about going to 'stand up and watch the band' smaller venues. Small clubs and Massey Hall and The Royal Theatre for us. The Showbox in Seattle is a good one with a combination of tables and standing.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 01:03:56 CEST 2014 from (68.199.208.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: San Fransisco's The Saloon, Melton, Albin, Blumenfeld, Banana

Another great club bites the dust. I've never been there, but know people who still were playing frequently.


Entered at Sun Sep 14 00:47:52 CEST 2014 from (92.54.161.199)

Posted by:

Peter V

That DAT … I did a CD copy for both of us, having a DAT recorder for my work on audiobooks. Then the DAT was sent to Garth, who I think wanted to check what was out and about.

What A Party … I'm away from my CDs today, but I recall the story of Picasso who was often presented with sketches to authenticate. If he thought they were good, he said they were his. If he thought they were bad, he said they weren/'t. BUT Lee's story has two separate sources, not one.


Entered at Sat Sep 13 22:27:50 CEST 2014 from (32.216.252.162)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: What A Party

Sounds a lot like Levon singing to me. I'd also agree with Bill M. on the drumming. If I had Kevin's $400, I'd even wager a bet on it.

That said, Lee G.'s info seems pretty solid. But my ears have heard a LOT of Levon's singing over the years, and it's really hard to believe it's not him. Really hard.


Entered at Sat Sep 13 22:01:25 CEST 2014 from (58.104.6.26)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

Linked is a short interview with the guys from Japan in 1987 that I hadn't seen before. Not very informative but still good to see.

Bill M: I had another listen and you are probably right. Levon when he was young, before he developed his own style and imitating Ronnie.


Entered at Sat Sep 13 21:34:32 CEST 2014 from (68.199.208.45)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Bob, above i linked a you tube presentation of Paul Cotton and Poco's 1973 version of Magnolia, on their knockout Crazy Eyes recording. I think it's the defintive version of the song. JJ was on record as saying it was his favorite cover - one helluva arrangement...

Here's a link to a very old live version. I've heard them do the song live countless times, both with and w/o Tim Schmidt, and think i caught much better vocal performances, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr2DtbuxqXs

For my money, Poco was one of the greatest bands of the 60s and 70s. Of course, there were alot of those then...


Entered at Sat Sep 13 20:52:56 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.151)

Posted by:

Bill M

Wallsend: I appreciate that it may be different for someone who wasn't expecting to Levon, but for me it's Levon singing and drumming on "What A Party". Maybe if Robbie'd had a chance to overdub some lead guitar ... Lee"s right about it not being Hawkins on "Kansas City" by Rockin' Ronald, though. Ronnie's said it's not him (not that truth-telling is his gold-medal sport), but it doesn't sound like anything more than a guy trying to sound like Hawkins. It'd be interesting to know more about it, as the label, End, was one of those George Goldner labels that got absorbed by Rouleete - and of course Roulette was where Hawkins wound up. And it came out in Canada on Quality, as did the first record by Hawkins and the Hawks.


Entered at Sat Sep 13 19:21:53 CEST 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F.

Location: HV
Web: My link

Subject: Lucinda Williams Version of Magnolia

Link is to Lucinda Williams version of JJ Cale's Magnolia.


Entered at Sat Sep 13 18:56:51 CEST 2014 from (24.114.68.143)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Cosimo Matassa

From Robbie Robertson's Facebook page:

"We just lost one of the true pioneers of Rock n Roll. Cosimo Matassa, the maestro of the New Orleans sound. Boy, did he get it right. As early as 1947 he was making records that would come to be called R&R. Last year I sat with one of the founding fathers of R&R and R&B, Fats Domino and he told me that in 1949 he recorded his first song, "The Fat Man" with Cosimo and he knew immediately that Cosimo had the 'magic touch'. After that everybody in New Orleans went to the master for his magic. Over the years Allen Toussaint, Dr John, The Neville's have all raved to me about Cosimo's extraordinary little studios,his record engineering and producing abilities. I had the pleasure of inducting Cosimo Matassa into the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. An honor I hold high amongst all my musician friends and peers. Bless his soul." - Robbie Robertson


Entered at Sat Sep 13 17:33:36 CEST 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Oh and Peter

The theme of that country song is.........if you play the record backwards, the guys wife comes back to life, the dog comes back and suddenly his pickup will start.

Now the good example of a "good ol' boy" story is. He comes home from work and his wife is cryin'. Honey whats wrong? he says. She says I baked you a nice pie and put it in the winda to cool and the dog ate it. He says, "Don't worry, I'll by you a new dawg."


Entered at Sat Sep 13 16:58:50 CEST 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: You don't say!

From what I hear Kevin you dress like that all the time. You could certainly use the 400 bucks I'm told.

Peter it has always seemed to me, down south they wants your bucks more than any where else.


Entered at Sat Sep 13 16:37:19 CEST 2014 from (174.117.18.147)

Posted by:

biffalo bull

Subject: awards

the band "ghost town orchestra" aka gto, won the the best cd award last night at the Aboriginal Peoples Choice Music Awards ceremony last night . the boys in the band played in a tribute to Robbie Robertson a couple years ago in toronto. check them out at the cbc website.


Entered at Sat Sep 13 15:09:11 CEST 2014 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Azure

It sounds as if you have become 'Tangled Up In Blue'.


Entered at Sat Sep 13 12:25:21 CEST 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Subject: Dylan related colour

We chose the colour of the car after Dylan's music: Blue "Belle Isle" after the song in Dylan's Self Portrait. - I bet not even JT can do better than that :-)


Entered at Sat Sep 13 11:52:02 CEST 2014 from (58.104.10.16)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

I am no expert on the Hawks but if somebody just played me What a Party I would't pick it as being Levon singing.


Entered at Sat Sep 13 10:09:56 CEST 2014 from (82.132.213.233)

Posted by:

Lee G

Bill I hear what you are saying regarding What A Party but it's interesting that it's the only track with the writing credit unknown and I can only reiterate what I was informed. Possibly a mix up as Already one track on the collection that Ronnie denies singing. The Dat tape was in reference to a post by Peter V and Kevin J. Cheers


Entered at Sat Sep 13 03:58:48 CEST 2014 from (24.199.71.83)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

Agree with Bill--I can't conceive how that could be anyone's voice but Levon's on What a Party...? Unless there are two different versions we are talking about.


Entered at Sat Sep 13 03:41:57 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.152)

Posted by:

Bill M

Lee G: Thanks for your post, though I have to ask what DAT Basement tape you're referring to. As for "What A Party", I still find it impossible to believe it's not the Hawks. The singer sounds like Levon and the drummer sounds even more like Levon. The matrix numbers listed in the "Rouleete Years" CD notes place the song with a number of unquestionably Hawks tracks from the same session. And the fact that it was listed on the album cover as appearing on the Canada-only "Mojo MaN" LP in '65 can be taken as a sure sign that the bright sparks in charge of "desinging" the album jacket simply grabbed the wrong title from the tape box. (Nobody with ears would have planned to include "What A Party" over "Nineteen Years Old".


Entered at Sat Sep 13 01:53:15 CEST 2014 from (82.132.214.234)

Posted by:

Lee G

Subject: Basement/Hawks

Bill M & Kevin J quick note on your posts. The Dat tape of Basement material was sourced by myself from a very well known Dylan collector in NYC. I sent a copy to Peter Viney. I also was involved with a lady from EMI in Calofornia who was doing the 2000 releases with bonus tracks for The Band releases. I was credited for various things and it's tricky to say too much here but let's put it this way - I never asked for a finders fee as it's not my music but demanded Garth, Levon & Ricks estate received something for this. EMI sent my DAT back with notes and CDs of all the material. They also sent me the final reference CDs they had for Moondog Matinee, Norther Lights & Islands. At the time I was speaking to Barney Hoskys who had done liner notes that we're not used, obviously. He asked me to remind them for a payment! Bill M What A Party is confirmed to me as not Levon singing and possibly isn't even the Hawks. Ian Wallis who is the author of The Hawk the story of Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks went through those tapes in Abbey Road so he told me when I stayed with him in '96 and introduced him to The Band guys at Cambridge. He said they were noted as The Hawks and Levon singing but I challenged him on What A Party years before I played it to Levon & Garth.


Entered at Fri Sep 12 17:43:25 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Cosimo Matassa: An incredible legacy to be sure and the nice part of the story is that he lived long enough to see his accomplishments honoured – as delayed as some of that official recognition was. The Band connections are many and Robbie Robertson was the presenter at his RRHOF ceremony.

Norm: Thank you for the warning…..I’ve immediately started dressing as a self-important, overpaid, vain fake cowboy – just like an Eagle….no doubt whoever you are sending will get “weak in the knees” as soon as he sees such a sight…….oh, and I’ll also clip $400 from him and send them back to BC in a rubber tube.


Entered at Fri Sep 12 15:20:59 CEST 2014 from (111.64.247.236)

Posted by:

Kerrin

Subject: Cosimo

John D, thanks for your post. Cosimo was not only behind some of the great names of rock 'n roll, he also coralled many game-changing session musicians whom few have heard of. Amazing players who influenced The Hawks among others, certainly Levon's drumming and Garth's tenor playing, whose names only came to light much later. Studios all over the US and UK struggled to mimic the sound of his records, something that has never been done and never will.


Entered at Fri Sep 12 14:42:07 CEST 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Cosimo Matassa

I was very saddened to hear about the death of Cosimo Mattasa this morning. Without Cosimo, I don't think we would have the "New Orleans Sound" that we all know today. My wife and I have had New Orleans as our second home for over 40 years now.

On one of our trips i bought the Fats Domino box set. I believe 8 CD's. I certainly understood that without Mr. Matassa, I'm not sure if Fats Domino, Lloyd Price, Little Richard and others would have given us the memories we have all benefited from. Cosimo was the engineer and owner if two of the most important studios in New Orleans.

"Cosimo was the doorway and window to the world for us musicians in New Orleans," Allen Toussaint said Thursday. "An expert, with a lot of heart and soul. When the Beatles heard Fats Domino, they heard him via Cosimo Matassa. He touched the whole world."

I met him the year I bought the box set at his grocery store. He was so humble; but happy that I knew who he was. We talked for an hour about those early days and he signed my box set. Very glad he's in the R&R Hall of Fame. It certainly took them long enough. He was and is one if the most important figures in R&B and Rock 'n Roll.

God Bless Sir and thank you for helping to bring the sound track of New Orleans into my life. He was 88..


Entered at Fri Sep 12 11:56:52 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

You’re right, Norm, I’d been listening to Johnny Cash singing “Don’t Take Your Guns to Town.” Next time I will.

On reflection, the theme of the song may have been slightly different. The wife had died, which the singer found a bit sad, but after the wife had died, the dog ran off, as the dog had never particularly liked the singer and the wife had always filled its bowl, rather than kicking it as the singer did. The singer found the departure of the dog more upsetting.

Nashville, next stop! A country writer is born.


Entered at Fri Sep 12 11:38:20 CEST 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Cover by Intimidation

You shoulda shot the sons-a-bitches Peter,,,,,,after all it was a saloon,,,,,,in a western town.

Out here it is sometimes tried in bars, (a cover charge).....bullshit. The argument here is if you charge to get in "a bar" you've just stolen one or two drinks from me. It rarely works.

However, a theater or a theatre, ball room such as the "Commadore" is a different thing. The venue is not to come in and sit around a table and drink, but to see a stage show, very different.

There ain't no vindicating yourself Kevin. The contract "hit" has been awarded. You might do like your mayor and get Mike Tyson or some other fool like that, but to no avail.


Entered at Fri Sep 12 10:07:57 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: cover charge

Not clear to me. Here if you pay, it's a gig. It might be in a music venue which has a bar, or a bar which puts on music, but if you pay to get in, it's admission, so not "cover." I may be out of date as I don't go to pub gigs often.

I found it very confusing at my son's wedding in California. A couple of days before they had drinks in a western-themed bar in Los Olivos. The food at the bar was a choice of greasy BBQ ribs or steak, neither of which we eat, so being Trattoria sort of people, and not being clad in obligatory plaid shirts and cowboy boots, we went to the Italian place next door. After an enjoyable meal we returned to the bar, only to find three burly gentleman in cut off leather waistcoats (vests) worn fetchingly over bare arms with tattoos, were demanding a $10 "cover charge" each re-enter, on the grounds that some people were now on the stage with a pedal steel guitar, lamenting in song the departure of a wife and the death of an old pup. I argued that we had only left temporarily but this fell on either deaf ears, or possibly brains with a particularly low level of comprehension. At this point, a lady from the venue passed by and said, 'They're alright, Grunt (I believe that was the man's name), they're with the wedding. Let them in.' I had thought it simply a shakedown, but now I see! A cover charge. I found it confusing as they were not standing at the door (which is clear: admission) but in the street below the wooden steps up to the veranda in front of the place, which called itself charmingly a "saloon". They were issuing no tickets, nor hand stamps, just displaying a rather threatening demeanor and each had a meaty fist full of ten dollar bills. Is this normal behavior at a Western musical evening?


Entered at Fri Sep 12 06:28:42 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.59)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Cosimo Matasa, RIP


Entered at Fri Sep 12 02:39:33 CEST 2014 from (184.145.65.238)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Subject: Cover charges, back then

Yeah, that was my experience too, Kevin. No cover, but a patron of the rock music arts, as I was back in my flower, was expected to maintain a practical imbibing standard over the 5-6 hours he (or she) was in the bar enjoying said music. Woe to those who weren't up to the task. Other, less enthusiastic sippers were on occasion "persuaded" to either refill or move along. Gently, of course.


Entered at Fri Sep 12 00:00:17 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Country Soul

… as in the "Country Got Soul" series and "Country Funk" series is a useful category … you should suggest it to Toppermost (I'm a contributor, like you, I don't run it).


Entered at Thu Sep 11 23:43:23 CEST 2014 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Archive for Toronto Telegram photos at York University site

Ian: You may be surprised at what you might find also at the York University Toronto Telegram archive site. There are some photos there of 15 11 65 and also some Ronnie Hawkins and the Hawks material (photos). These may be of help to you as you work on the project I believe you have been doing. (from what I read in the past couple of years)


Entered at Thu Sep 11 23:15:32 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Ahhh, the “rousting of patrons - gently and tactfully” - kind of like how a certain guitar playing, condo living, band leader with a soft spot for money hungry nostalgia acts on the West coast of Canada treats those tourist floating by his place on tubes – as target practise with his pellet gun!

Thank you Bill M


Entered at Thu Sep 11 21:17:14 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: Teronno

Kevin J: My guess is that most bars didn't charge at the door back then. For one thing, the licensing board saw (and I believe still sees) a cover charge as a kind of contract between the establishment and the patron; once the patron's paid to get in, he or she can stay as long as he or she wants, without needing to drink a drop. But if there's no cover charge, the bar is allowed to roust the patron - gently and tactfully of course. Still, by the mid-late '70s, most name bars or bars with 'name' local bands charged two or three dollars on at least Fridays and Saturdays. (Mercifully, not Grossman's.) I saw Levon and the Cate Brothers at the Le Coq D'Or in '79 (I think); that couldn't've been more that $5 or I wouldn't have gone. Same for Hawkins with Levon, Jerry Penfound, Dr John, Paul Butterfield, Pat Travers, King Biscuit Boy et al in '77 for that matter.


Entered at Thu Sep 11 20:49:14 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Friar's

I too noticed that “No Cover, No Minimum” line on the Friar’s poster. I wonder if that was the norm back in the day? Anyhow, a few short years later, they were paid $50,000 to play at Bill Graham’s place. Not bad.


Entered at Thu Sep 11 20:01:50 CEST 2014 from (63.142.158.9)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: James Hunter

PV - I wonder if you shouldn't add Country-Soul to your soul categories too; it can be a more integrated lot: Arthur Alexander, Dan Penn, Charlie Rich, Solomon Burke, etc. And I'd also add Nick Lowe based on his last 20 odd years in that style.


Entered at Thu Sep 11 19:52:30 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Location: Tronto
Web: My link

Subject: How is your bird?

John D will remember another CHUM DJ of the day, Garry Ferrier, who, under the pseudonym Race Marbles, had a minor hit with this take-off on "Like A Rolling Stone" in '65. Earlier the same year he had a much bigger hit with a Beatle-themed Christmas song, "Ringo-Deer", under his own name.


Entered at Thu Sep 11 17:54:58 CEST 2014 from (98.99.251.254)

Posted by:

Ignatius

Location: Pac NW US

Subject: Friar's - No cover! No minimum!

Wow. No cover, no minimum. Must have been some serious drinking going on at the Friars to get the boys paid. A five piece, too. These days to pay a touring professional five piece at a club, what would the cover typically be? Ten bucks? Twenty bucks? So says a web site about Vegas clubs. I imagine it could be more. Of course, most bands are playing casinos, where the revenue source is not just drinks, and most clubs are employing DJs with fancy sound systems and light shows. Times a-changin', as someone once said.


Entered at Thu Sep 11 16:02:03 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: Pictures, poster and some words about Friar's. A must see tourist stop for all The Band fans visiting Toronto.....and the upstairs is still open.


Entered at Thu Sep 11 15:35:08 CEST 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Dylan '65 Toronto

Dylan rehearsed with the band at the Friars Tavern (now the Hard Rock Café) that fall, during which he slipped in an interview with CHUM DJ Bob McAdorey. Published on the eve of Dylan’s November 14 and 15, 1965 performances at Massey Hall, the singer-songwriter addressed recent criticisms. “My ideas change and my songs change,” he told McAdorey. “I don’t think the way I did when I was 18 or 19, and I don’t like being quoted on things I said or did then.”


Entered at Thu Sep 11 14:12:22 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan + Hawks in Toronto in November 1965

I have now found the TORONTO TELEGRAM 15th November review on the TORONTOIST site, so thanks, JT, for the tip.



Entered at Thu Sep 11 08:25:48 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: James Hunter

My article on James Hunter up at Toppermost … Rob the Organ yesterday on ZZ Top.


Entered at Wed Sep 10 21:57:04 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Jon.....Good one and yes......the other funny bit is that L.Cohen's self written blurb for the cover of "Beautiful Losers" could well have passed for a review of a 1965/66 Bob Dylan & The Hawks show.


Entered at Wed Sep 10 20:40:55 CEST 2014 from (74.203.77.122)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

Subject: Re: Leonard Cohen

Very cool, Kevin. Though in fairness, if Leonard spoke of his epiphany "at intermission" at that 1966 show, it was presumably in reference to Dylan's solo acoustic set and not the set with our guys. But even so...!


Entered at Wed Sep 10 18:37:25 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

A little known fact that Levon & The Hawks were also influential in launching the singing career of Leonard Cohen:

By Michael Barclay:

"Cohen tells McClelland that if Beautiful Losers "gets by censors it could make money" and that he'd "written the Bhagavad Gita of 1965." On the jacket flap, written by Cohen himself, he says the novel is "a love story, a Black Mass, a satire, a prayer, a tasteless affront, an hallucination, a bore, an irrelevant display of diseased virtuosity… in short, a disagreeable religious epic of incomparable beauty." The University of Toronto buys the manuscript for $6,000 for its archives. The Toronto Star's Robert Fulford famously calls it "the most revolting book ever written in Canada… an important failure. At the same time it is probably the most interesting Canadian book of the year." One day at Toronto's King Edward Hotel, Cohen plays harmonica and sings for a friend while a couple in the adjacent room make love noisily. He tells his friend, "I think I'm going to record myself singing my poems." "Please don't," she replies.

1966

Both of Cohen's novels have sold a total of 5,200 copies in North America; Cohen foresees a literary life as not entirely financially feasible. On February 20, he goes to see Bob Dylan and the Hawks at Place Des Arts in Montreal. At intermission, Cohen tells Layton that he's seen his own future. Layton laughs. Cohen moves to New York, checking into the Chelsea Hotel. While he there, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Allen Ginsberg and Janis Joplin (the subject of his song "Chelsea Hotel #2") are all temporary neighbours. He is introduced to fellow Canadian Mary Martin, who works with Albert Grossman, manager of Gordon Lightfoot, Ian and Sylvia, and the Band. Martin gives Cohen's song "Suzanne" to her first solo management client, Toronto's Stormy Clovers, fronted by Susan Jains, making them the first performers to ever cover Cohen."


Entered at Wed Sep 10 18:09:08 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan + Hawks - Toronto - 1965

Thanks for the information, JT.

If anyone has copies of the review in the TELEGRAM or Robert Fulford's STAR piece, I'd be pleased to see them./n Any subsequent comments in the "letters" section would be of interest, too.

Robert Fulford had interviewed Dylan in September, when the latter flew into Toronto to rehearse with the band.

Finally, in my previous posting here, I may have given the false impression that the second Toronto show was added after the first had sold out. This is not what happened. The trade press, from around late September or early October, had referred to both dates. I was wondering if both shows had been advertised from the start or whether they sold tickets for the show on 14th before selling tickets for the show on the 15th.


Entered at Wed Sep 10 16:27:58 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Massey Hall 15 11 65

From 'The Torontoist" site.

Review of Bob Dylan’s performance at Massey Hall, the Telegram, November 15, 1965. (For the record, I do NOT recall any booing at this concert!)

As happened elsewhere, the audience split when Dylan hit the Massey Hall stage. There was booing and hissing when the electricity was turned on for the second set. Somebody sarcastically yelled out “Elvis!” A few people left the building. One irate fan complained to the Globe and Mail that Dylan had become “a cheap imitation of the Beatles.” Newspaper reviews are laughable in hindsight. The Globe and Mail’s Bruce Lawson treated the performance as the interview he couldn’t secure with Dylan before the show. The Star’s Antony Ferry was filled with bile, calling Levon and the Hawks “a third rate Yonge Street rock n’ roll band” whose noise drowned out Dylan’s message. “That great voice, a wonderfully clean poet’s voice, is buried under the same Big Sound that draws all the Screamies to a Beatle orgy of pubescent kids at Maple Leaf Gardens.” Ferry’s Star colleague Robert Fulford disagreed; he found the acoustic half boring, while the electric set offered “great waves of sound roaring off the stage in marvellously subtle rhythms…It’s Dylan’s own new thing. I love it.” The Telegram’s Barrie Hale felt Dylan could lose the fussier members of the audience, and that the performance demonstrated that his new sound was picking up new fans. “They know something is happening there, they just don’t know what it is, but they dig it.”


Entered at Wed Sep 10 15:49:53 CEST 2014 from (50.100.254.255)

Posted by:

brown eyed girl

Web: My link

1965-10-05 The Hawks Sessions

Play AlbumShare
6
SONGS


Entered at Wed Sep 10 15:32:29 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Robert Fulford....

.....and for the record,the great Toronto newspaper man Robert Fulford got it right at first glance describing Levon & The Hawks perfectly:

"The second half of the Massey Hall concert, with that wild rock beat coming from Levon and the Hawks, was a remarkable experience - great waves of sound roaring off the stage in marvellously subtle rhythms, a tremendous roaring hurricane of a style."


Entered at Wed Sep 10 15:28:27 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan + Hawks -Toromto 1965 - CORRECTION

When I wrote, in my first post on this subject, that I thought the concert on 14th might not have sold out, I meant the concert on 15th. The advert said that the 14th November concert had sold out but, with the show on 15th November still being advertised on 10th November, it seemed likely that this second night was not a full house.

I have always assumed that the concert on 14th November was advertised first and then sold so quickly that the second show, on 15th Novemeber, was added. If anyone can confirm this by reference to contemporary adverts or news reports, I'd be pleased to hear.


Entered at Wed Sep 10 15:25:23 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: From the archives at this GB - additional background on that 3rd rate band.

Jeff: Yes, those were the two albums.


Entered at Wed Sep 10 15:21:26 CEST 2014 from (83.41.175.83)

Posted by:

Paul Stevens

Web: My link

The Band is one of my top10 favorite music bands. I´m so happy about the new 6-CD 138-song Deluxe box.


Entered at Wed Sep 10 10:09:55 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan + Hawks in Toronto in 1965

The DAILY STAR review was by Antony Ferry; the one in the G&M by Bruce Lawson. Both were published in the 15 November editions.

An interview with Dylan, conducted on 15 November, appeared in The Star Weekly in January 1966. There is a copy of the Daily Star to hand and Dylan comments on one aspect of that review, which “one of the fellows in the band showed him …”. So I guess they read the reviews.

Not all reviews in that period were negative, however. In Columbus OH: “(Backed Up By Band) Dylan Pleases Audience”. In Syracuse NY: “Dylan Impressive In Folk-Rock Songs” (Both published on 22 November)

Getting back to Toronto, there was also a description of the Toronto show in an article in MacLean’s a little later, with some photos of the show.


Entered at Wed Sep 10 01:12:34 CEST 2014 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Who were the 'journalists', Ian?

Ian: Who wrote those articles to which you refer (Toronto Star). The 'Dylan's gone commercial' comment was parroted all over the media for months and continued for a while. As for whether the seats sold out, I honestly do not recall. I was in row 7 centre near the front and didn't really look behind very much. Finally, I do not recall the negative comments re LATH.


Entered at Wed Sep 10 00:40:39 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan + Hawks @ Massey Hall 1965

I have a photo copy of an advert for the Dylan show at Massey Hall in November 1965 (no mention of the Hawks). The show on the 14th had sold out but tickets were available for the one on the 15th. The ticket prices were $4, $3 and $2, available from "Sam The Record Man" at 347 Yonge Street and from the venue box office. The advert comes from the TORONTO DAILY STAR for 10th November. I wouldn'y be surprised if the 14th didn't sell out.

The DAILY STAR review was headlined, "Let's face an awful truth: Dylan's Gone Commercial", while the headline in the GLOBE AND MAIL was: "A Chnaged Dylan Booed in Toronto". The DAILY STAR referred to " a third rate Yonge Street band" at two points in its review.


Entered at Wed Sep 10 00:17:01 CEST 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: OH! YEAH!

That's it Kevin....I'm comin' tuh slap yuh!.....you really must think my brother and I are poor judges of sound quality and good music f......you!


Entered at Tue Sep 9 22:38:49 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Judge not harshly, Kevin … I've seen Kim Catrall in "Private Lives" and "Antony & Cleopatra" and while I've seen better productions of both, she can definitely hold an audience. It's a mistake to confuse a good actor with TV role you disliked.

On new releases, check out "The Elizabethan Sessions" for prime English folk music, 2014. See link. Stay with it till the instrumental bit. Young? English? Acoustic? That's what I was saying.


Entered at Tue Sep 9 20:14:47 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: to be fair ...

Kevin J: And/or a husband, I add on the basis of personal experience.


Entered at Tue Sep 9 18:56:18 CEST 2014 from (173.3.49.251)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Web: My link

see the link ASCAP suing establishments that refuse to pay the license fee and use ASCAP artists music


Entered at Tue Sep 9 17:59:48 CEST 2014 from (173.3.49.251)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Kev, i'd bet my bippeee that if you check the credits, those two Henley solo albums that you think are superb are the first two produced by Danny Kortchmar. He also cowrote most of the songs on em.


Entered at Tue Sep 9 17:53:44 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Tickets, Eagles, Sound and Leon Spinks

Most I paid for a ticket goes back a long way to Sugar Ray Leonard-Roberto Duran World Title fight at Montreal’s Olympic Stadium….I was just a teenager but had been working and we paid $200 for ring-side tickets. Leon Spinks was in the area and was off his head high……still remember a guy sitting near us saying that the only rock music he could listen to was Steely Dan. A rock snob at a prize fight seemed odd to me.

……..as to theatre vs rock shows…………….understand the point on price and flexibility on access but I detest this trend of having 2nd rate television stars in to promote plays……………….I’d far rather see a punker piss on his kneecaps than participate in the charade of having a hack like Kim Catrall carry a play……What’s next The Kardashians do Macbeth…………Now, the truly great Bill Nighy is another story, I’d see him in anything.

As to The Eagles………..I also saw them as a teenager near the end of the Hotel California tour at the Rideau Carlton racetrack in Ottawa……….Chilliwack opened and were very good but The Eagles were dreadful…..especially the sound……..Only rock show I can remember where people were disgruntled and screaming out in displeasure from the opening song….Joe Walsh was the only saving grace and when his “bosses” allowed him take the mic at about the one hour stage…..he said something like “ok, Ottawa…you can all wake-up now” or something to that effect and no doubt it was aimed as much at the lifeless colleagues with him on stage that night as the audience. He also seemed to make a plea to the sound guys to “crank it up”……..whatever, the audience responded very enthusiastically as it was the only – truly the only – hint of what a rock n roll show should be about all night……………………………….More than a decade later, I attended a Don Henley show….I had thought ( and still think ) two of his solo albums to be superb and bought tickets for the End of The Innocence” tour……….Not sure that I have ever seen a major “rock star” show where the lead performer was so uncomfortable and ill-suited to being the front man….the sound was perfect but the show was terrible…..and I think, anyone who has attended an Eagles show in the past 15 years is, unwittingly or not , a sucker.


Entered at Tue Sep 9 16:24:57 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Ticket prices

The most we ever spent (relatively recent Canadian $$) was to see Leonard Cohen (row 2 centre) in Victoria. That was roughly $200 per ticket if I recall ( 2 years ago). That was a VIP type package. As for sports, we went to the Vancouver winter Olympics to see hockey games and that was expensive (much more).


Entered at Tue Sep 9 15:12:59 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Bob Dylan with LATH (Nov 15/65) and Bob Dylan/Band (Jan 10/74)

On Nov. 15, 1965, I saw Bob Dylan with LATH at Massey Hall Toronto and the ticket stub site notes that tickets for that time were $3.00 to $5.00. (Canadian $) Using the Canadian inflation calculator, that is $22.50 to $37.50 approximately in 2014. On Jan. 10,1974, I saw Dylan and the Band at Maple Leaf Gardens and the ticket stub site notes that the tickets for that time were $8.80 (Canadian $).Using the Canadian inflation calculator, that is about $43.00 in 2014.


Entered at Tue Sep 9 09:44:03 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: tickets, rock, theatre

I reckon the most I ever paid for a concert ticket was Marvin Gaye. It was £46 in 1975 or 1976. I just ran an inflation calculator which makes that £276 in 2014 money, so, yes, Eagles prices. Marvin Gaye had a full Motown band plus large string section plus dancers. It remains one of the very best shows I have ever seen, by one of the greatest artists I’ve seen. Worth every penny.

Just thinking it through, if The Eagles are in your town, $400 is reasonable. It’s about £250. A premium theatre ticket in London’s West End is £60, but we drive 110 miles each way … £60 worth of diesel, then London congestion charge is £11.50, parking £36 (or £18 if you get the ticket validated at the theatre), a meal. If it’s late, staying over in a hotel … so £250 to see something that good in your own town with no travel is fair enough. (Though two of us go to London, so I suppose all the extras need dividing by two). I’d rather pay £250 for a £250 ticket than to pay a scalper £250 for a £50 ticket … which was what used to happen with The Eagles.

But compared to Broadway, and compared to most rock, theatre is an incredible bargain in London, even more so outside London. You can stand at The Globe for £10 on same day tickets. Take Jude Law starring in Henry V in the West End with a cast of 25 plus live music … best tickets £56. Some day tickets released every morning for students who want to queue for cheap seats at £18. Royal Shakespeare Company in the cheap seats in Stratford … £18 for a cast of 25 plus a 6 piece live band. But outside London, £35-£50 will get you the very best seats at Bath, Chichester, Stratford, Brighton with great casts. In the last few years we’ve seen Jude Law, Kevin Spacey, Jeff Goldblum, Patrick Stewart, Kenneth Branagh, Daniel Radcliffe, Frank Langella, Zach Braff, Martin Freeman, James McAvoy, Bill Nighy, Carey Mulligan, Rowan Atkinson, Ian McKellan, Richard Armitage, Judi Dench, Vanessa Redgrave, Sian Phillips, James Earl Jones, David Hyde-Pierce, Rupert Everett, Kim Cattral, Ben Wishaw, Stephen Mangan, John Simm, Rik Mayall, James Corden, Felicity Kendall, Sheridan Smith. That list is just those with film / TV names, ignoring the equally great ones like Simon Russell-Beale and Mark Rylance who mainly stick with theatre, not film.

If only I’d been able to see the equivalent range of quality in music! And the conclusion from seeing so many film stars on stage is that they got their film acclaim because they are all extremely good.


Entered at Tue Sep 9 05:09:48 CEST 2014 from (173.3.49.60)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Subject: The Best Of My Love

Pete, i saw the Eagles a long time back. Don't recall seeing em as a 4 piece ( i might have), but definitely caught em in the Leadon / Feldon days a few times. Saw the 94 show at The Meadowlands, had great seats. My girl at the time was Israeli, and it seems the Eagles are huge in Israel. If not for her, i never woulda gone, but i knew it would make her happy... The show was fine, harmonies, playing, all in tact... every hair in place so to speak. Sound was great for an outdoor show too. But everything was rather smooth. More spectacular was the after party, kinda like the reaction you get after a positive reaction to a marriage proposal.....


Entered at Tue Sep 9 04:47:57 CEST 2014 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Peter V

Peter. Back in 1989 four of us paid $400.00 each to see Macca at the Skydome in Toronto. Front row seats and he was right in front of us. His voice was still really strong and it was worth every cent. When he went into his Beatle catalogue, and started with 'I saw her standing there' hundreds of people got up and started to dance and the security tried to stop us. And not very nicely. Paul stopped the song and told the security people to chill and let us dance. Great memory, great music and I think there was 60,000 people behind us.


Entered at Tue Sep 9 00:04:25 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Lots of interesting things. I would like to have seen The Eagles, though the £400 in the UK is CAN$707 or US$643 on this evening’s prices which is at a different level, but, hey, you can’t buy a memory. On The Eagles a friend with a very reliable ear maintains Don Henley live was the best stage sound he ever heard – though he hasn’t seen Leonard Cohen. Personally, Leonard Cohen, Paul Simon, and James Taylor are in a different league for sound, but I’ve heard The Eagles are in that league.

Some years ago I recall a mildly embittered debate about sidemen fees. Guitarists, bass players, drummers and keyboard players complained that they play through everything non-stop, while the horn section might sit out half the show, and not play right through the songs they do play. Hard one. The horn guys would say ‘Yes, but you notice what I do …’

Way back in 1970, in most bands on the minor rungs of the ladder, the road crew of one or two were the best paid guys in the set up. The band received an allowance, which was set against future earnings by the management, as was their food and lodgings. The road crew got paid period, and their food and lodging were all found (and this was also set against the band’s future earnings). This was fair as they were working their balls off without the smell of the greasepaint, roar of the crowd or the hypothetical possibility of future stardom. Indeed in the late 60s, some name bands would be borrowing money from their roadies to buy cigarettes, as well as watching the roadies eat heartily at their future expense. In those days petrol stations did hand-written receipts, and would happily just put down a total, so a lot of cigarettes and chocolate bars got bought on the petrol account.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 23:21:10 CEST 2014 from (173.3.49.60)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

JT, something that's obvious, but i should add, when guys like the sidemen with the big names, Springsteen for example, Dylan, The Stones, etc etc do things with other acts, small local acts, obviously they ain't getting that same kind of money. nor are they usually trying to. But, sometimes they may. IT may sound confusing, and sketchy, and haphazard, and in a way it is. but it is sometimes understandable. I know several horn players who toured with The Stones, Pickett, James Brown, and made real good money. Local acts can get em for much less, often that 100 to bucks, if they like you and your music. Or need the work. It's understandable. Should be... But, at the same time, when they can get the big bucks, even from smaller acts, they;re gonan take it, and they should. Rough life today......



Entered at Mon Sep 8 22:59:57 CEST 2014 from (173.3.49.60)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

JT, as said , it all varies. It's up to artists or band leaders to determine what they pay sidemen, and of course, it can vary within a touring aggregation. Which is not necessarily a bright idea. What Westie described he did is the best way ( with live studio sessions i've always paid everyone the same, except Levon and Johnnie, and with live performance I've paid everyone the same) ,but if you have band members of varying lengths of time in and varying abilities, it's very understandable to give different deals. Also look at a theater that holds three to four thousand and the variety of acts they have....They're gonna pay some acts a lot more than others , and that can free up the artist to pay his sidemen more than an artist that receives less. But then again, that higher paid artist may have higher expenses........ then there's other considerations------ in a lot of cases, name sidemen MAY take less from famous artists, or gigs they really want to do, than they hold out for from lesser names, who they perceive to need them more......... or, maybe not, maybe they may give a deal to a artist on the way up. It;s all negotiable, it all changes moment to moment and situation to situation.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 20:51:14 CEST 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: The Sideman Wage

Back in the 60's, the stories went around, (I'm not in any position to say this is true), Buck Owens was apparently notorious for paying his side men drastically low wages.

While he made thousands on concerts, paying his side men only a few hundred a show, or week in some cases.......it was said. I've heard that of many middle class "stars" (in their own eyes) who do the same thing.

Friends of mine who played a lot of music with me, and were far better musicians than I told me of some of their gigs and the lousy pay. As I was seasonal in the business, (in the off season from fishing etc) I had some real hot players in my band. I always paid them the same as I took. One night as we set up our equipment, Rick Leather my lead guitar man gave me a scolding. We were setting up my sound system. Rick said, "How much have you paid for all this?" I said it's about $30,000 now. He said you got to start taking more money for this. You should be taking about $500 a week like every one else does.

I said to Rick, well my thinking is you guys do this for a living, so I try to make sure you get a decent wage. So I said well I owe a little on it so how about if I take the monthly payment once a month of $350. All agreed, and I was happy. To have guys like them to play with was worth it to me..... but then I guess I'll never be a "star".


Entered at Mon Sep 8 19:23:26 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Subject: Les Paul - Takin' Care of Business

LINKED: An interview with Randy Bachman that I found interesting on many levels........nothing really to do with what we have been discussing of late but some might like it.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 18:46:08 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Payments to band members take all forms……….some of the heavy hitters put their bands on full time salaries …..Gordon Lightfoot was most renowned for being generous in this regard in that he paid his band full time salaries whether on tour or not – quite the exception………………in an amusing twist, Richard Wright of Pink Floyd had been kicked out of the mighty Floyd by the time The Wall was being made and “put on a wage” ….the wonderful twist to the story was that the shows to promote that album, as limited as they were, were a financial disaster, and Wright was hence the only one who made money on the tour…………..Most rock n roll fans were unaware that Ronnie Wood was just a salary guy with the Stones for the first 25 years of his time there and that Joe Walsh remains just a salary man with The Eagles - even though he literally saved the band's life at one point and was the only member who was worth seeing live.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 18:10:25 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Mostly at the middle level nowadays, they engage a sound crew and PA and lights from a specialized company on a tour by tour basis, especially between countries. At the Leonard Cohen / Paul Simon level, I think the whole lot travels with them, but at the 400-1000 seater level, I'm sure most buy in the services of a local provider. I remember chatting to the Mavericks sound guy who had been doing Ray Davies the month before.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 17:39:44 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

JT: I can't be of any help with who gets what, but I can help you with the BARK names - the drummer since forever is Gary Craig and the bassist John Dymond. I believe that they, along with Richard Bell, comprised the Colin Linden Band prior to the BARK adventure. And I think all of them, Linden included, backed up Bruce Cockburn before that. On the new BARK album, "South", there are keyboards on just a couple cuts - on one is John Whynot, Colin's longtime bandmate prior to Richard Bell and a sometime accompanist since, and on the other is a real blast from the past, Fran McKendree of McKendree Spring, a respected upper-NY-state band of the early '70s.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 17:18:34 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Remuneration

Jeff: Any idea what a major backup player (say a Charlie Sexton or a Chuck Leavall) in a front line band on tour earns in an evening? How does that compare to what a soundboard man earns in an evening? What would a roadie earn? I've never had a feel for this kind of information and have always wondered. Bob Dylan tour and a tour like Paul McCartney or Neil Young or Rolling Stones are little industries supporting hundreds of people. Then there are middle level bands who tour for a month to six weeks and have an entourage who support them, sometimes (not often) with backup players who are not in the band. Blackie and The Rodeo Kings have a drummer named Diamond (last name) who has toured with them. I've never had a feel for the finances overall and perhaps you can give me some insight.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 17:09:23 CEST 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Eagles

None of you are mentioning Eagles musicians, "before Eagles" of which I was a fan. To say most of the fans of Eagles are of a fifties age is bullshit.

Yes Peter, when Eagles attended at General Motors Place, (now Rogers Arena0, Vancouver last,( May 10/2010 ) my brother and I shelled out total $1600 for our tickets, 12 rows from the stage. It says on the ticket the price is $196.50 but by the time the promotors get thru, it was almost $400 per ticket.

Looking at the crowd, there were people of all ages down to teen agers I'm sure, however the most prominent by far would have been at least 60's. Bear in mind, there was over 25,000 people there. I'm sure the most by far were 60's. Also bear in mind, I would expect Eagles and before Eagles, those guys with Linda were probably far more popular out here.

I just found my ticket in my desk and confirmed those prices. It was the "Long Road Out of Eden" tour. My brother and I talked about it when I heard of the concert. We played their music on stage forever, so in reality we made a lot of money off that music. So we said, well lets get the best seats we can. By that time, the first ten rows were already sold.

As I said back then when I talked about it here. Since about 1954 when I started going to concerts, (I been to a few). The sound produced in that huge room was like you've never heard. At this age now, and knowing a little about sound reproduction looking at that system was damn impressive.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 17:06:01 CEST 2014 from (173.3.49.60)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Kev, if i ever get the full project, including the electric version of that out, well, it all should take care of itself...Pete, there were a whole lot of high school freshmen and sophomores into The Eagles here in NY back then. And many kids in my acquaintance all seemed to know who the Eagles were....that Meisner had been in Poco, Leadon a Burrito, and Henley and Frey with Ronstadt..that kinda stuff mattered back then...........


Entered at Mon Sep 8 15:41:35 CEST 2014 from (131.137.35.83)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: music business

_Who the F**k is Arthur Fogel?_ is a very worthwhile documentary about the promoter who emerged with a new business model after the Bill Graham era. ('We used to tour to promote the record, now we put out a CD to promote the tour.')
Record-breaking grosses with the Stones, U2, Madonna, etc. Gambled and lost on Diana Ross, GNR.

Catch it if you can.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 13:01:52 CEST 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Location: HV

Subject: T Rex

Peter V, I saw T Rex at The Academy of Music, NYC, Septermber of 1972. He was an amazing beautiful performer. I still listen to his music. Ringo Starr was in the audience that night. It was the first time we country hicks had ever seen a Beatle in person. Great night!


Entered at Mon Sep 8 08:32:25 CEST 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwesst

Subject: Aging musicians

Aging rock musician can receive State Pension in Finland. Interested? Download application form from the site of Finnish Ministry of School And Education. It is colder than Greenland but dry English humour will be understood.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 08:13:05 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Stubborn Kind of Fellow

When I first commented I thought we meant The Eagles age, not the audience, or maybe I thought it was the British beat group from Bristol who, as chance would have it, had a minor guitar instrumental hit with “The Desperados” in 1963. I often wondered if the “other” Eagles got the title from that. They also featured in the film “Some People.” See link to DISCOGS if you don't believe me.

Buy hey, once the argument starts, one has to stand the ground stubbornly. I still maintain that fans of the first album in 1972 (I was an early fan) were mainly college age or older. If you were at college/ university in 1972 as an 18 year old, it puts you to 1954 birth. In fact, everyone I knew who liked that album in 72 was mid-20s or older, which safely gets us through to 1975’s album. Of course you’re right … Hotel California attracts all age groups to a concert, including my kids. And Jeff was unusually young to get into them in 1972.

I’ll also ask if any of us have been daft enough to shell out $400 or here, £400 ($650) on proving our case by actually attending a concert?

I spend too much time in record shops / record fairs. The mid-50s bald and grey blokes head for the punk section, which I put as “post Eagles.”

The Jackson Five were in the same teenybop area as T-Rex etc, so early 70s we’re talking pre-teen.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 06:43:10 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Jeff.....Understood and thank you.........by the way, the New York Islanders are relocating to Brooklyn in a year or two I believe - might be worthwhile looking into an association for your song.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 04:06:47 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Kev, i agree with everything except that first sentence. Cause, On The Border was the first big step up in popularity. Was it the smash that One Of These Nights was? No. But it was a big step up. Best Of My Love, Ol 55, got plenty of play. Already Gone and James Dean got even more.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 03:58:56 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Jeff: Sorry then that I had nixed the first line of my post which had been "Jeff is right"...............you really cannot believe that the square headed Biff's and Betty's shelling out $399 a ticket in 2014 were grooving to the lame "Ol' 55" back in 1974........not a chance.....The massive radio hit "Lyin' Eyes" brought in the females big time in 1975 with the "One of These Nights" LP and the the world was truly conquered in 1977 with the "Hotel California"album in 1977...........The audience I referenced earlier today (which you had agreed with) is now in their 50's - much closer to early 50's than mid 60's which PV is promoting.

Next up: Peter regales us with stories of how had Michael Jackson lived his reunion concert audiences would have been largely made up of people in their mid 60's due to him having some hits in the late 1960's........of course, we all know the audiences would have been drawn from the "Thriller" period just as The Eagles crowd of today (in all of their grotesque fashion) is the "Hotel California" one.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 03:11:41 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Kevin, i disagree with your first sentence. It was on the On the Border album. One Of These Nights was a different level, but they started getting a lot more attention with On The Border. I remember the big PR shove and all the reviews that were proclaiming them arrived..Truthfully, it was kinda lost on me, as i still prefer the first album. But On The Border was good.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 01:03:42 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

The Eagles first big step up in popularity was with the album ""One Of These Nights" released 1975........Their massive leap to true superstardom came in 1977 with the release of the album "Hotel California" which contained at least 4 huge hits...........the 14, 15 , 16 , 17 , 18 year olds who bought all those albums and had those songs as soundtracks to their lives in basement parties, first cars, first dates, etc. are now all in their 50's...........Case closed.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 00:23:22 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

JQ, that was a great source of work for many very talented musicians here for a long time. Some names that would surprise.........but, it dried up.


Entered at Mon Sep 8 00:13:47 CEST 2014 from (63.142.158.9)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Live Music

With the meteoric rise in wedding budgets over the past couple decades bands that play those have done very well. I'm told that in LA/OC weddings regularly hit $50k, with 20%+ set aside for live music. If you don't mind wearing a tux and putting a rock & soul & oldies review together it can be good weekend work -


Entered at Sun Sep 7 23:20:03 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Here in NYC, we had 102.7 WNEW FM. Which back then, was an amazing radio station. And I had an older cousin, introduce me to good music round the age of 6 or 7. By 1972, my friends and I were going to great concerts all over NYC. By 75, i had crossed state lines to Jersey and California.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 23:09:05 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

You had taste young, Jeff. Your British contemporaries were into T-Rex, The Bay City Rollers and Slade. Here The Eagles were more my age group - a decade older.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 22:44:24 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

I'm 55 Pete, born late in 58. I and my friends, all bought that first Eagles album pretty darn quick, soon as they hit the airwaves and the record was available...You can't help but love that first record. Even then though, i knew they were a knock off of Poco and the Burrito Brothers.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 22:33:37 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Dunno. First hits early 70s. Not teeny bop, so say audience was 20 when they first met them. Getting into 60s. 1954 birthday is 60.

I was inveigled into sitting through the appalling "Celebrity Strictly Come Dancing" to see Smokey Robinson. He did "Get ready" and a load of people danced in front of him, thus totally wasting my time.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 22:09:11 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Eagles fans, probably way more in the 50 somethings than in the 60 somethings Pete.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 21:04:45 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Eagles

That's 60-somethings, not 50-somethings.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 20:16:41 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

....and it's an even more troubling situation when you realize that there is no help coming from the regular folks in society.......In Canada, there are some cities that have considered a program which would allow artists a break on the purchase of apartment/condos.........The regular Biff and Betty's that call talk shows and attend meetings of their elected officials HOWL with outrage at this thought "Don't waste my tax money" they scream............What they fail to grasp is that it was these very artists that moved into a down-and-out part of town, made it very cool to go to and look at thus attracting restaurants and clubs and shops - generating millions in tax dollars - and then being told by authorities that they were no longer welcome as they couldn't afford to live there.

The whole world is going to be like Venice, Italy soon.........everyone rushing around at full speed to get a glimpse of beauty but failing to realize that the people that created the beauty no longer live there........Fuck it, The Eagles are playing somewhere tonight......step right up, for just $399 you might get a seat close to a group of 50 yr old somethings who will be dancing away to songs that bring them so much joy......watch closely as tomorrow they've decided to axe little Johnny's guitar lesson......the instructor lives too far away in a bad part of town......and besides that goof on the Internet giving away his lessons for free seems ok!


Entered at Sun Sep 7 19:38:53 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Pete, you know better and you know the answer. Today, with all the conditions being discussed and others, except in the very odd case, owning the means of production and distribution isn't really helping. Back then it did. Gloriously. Different world.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 19:37:04 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.142)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: numbers as a second language

The three sessions I spoke of last post were September '61, not October - 13,15,18.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 19:06:34 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I was reading Smokey Robinson interviewed this morning. He said Berry Gordy and he made about $3.19 each from sales of “Got A Job” their first hit and answer disc to “Get A Job.” That’s when they decided they needed to own the means of production and distribution themselves. So have things got dramatically worse since 1958?


Entered at Sun Sep 7 18:53:23 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

JT, another thing that kept musicians and writers afloat awhile was jingles.... and corporate music..... you'd be amazed at the high end musicians in NYC, many name people, who got through a good part of the last 20 years working jingles hard....


Entered at Sun Sep 7 18:34:23 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

JT. Your question could also be applied to music industry people, like engineers, producers, songwriters who are not performers
Some
1) find wealthy or well to do spouses
2 get jobs as substitute teachers
3) go back to school 4) quit music for paying jobs and just play music privately, or the occassional gig..

Unified approach? - it's a big business and societal problem. It's all over the news for ages now, yet the society we live in could pretty much care less.. Musicians and artists and music people have been screaming, and are more recently screaming more often and louder. that's all they can do. there are battles going on in the courts, and there is legislation before Congress, that will impact songwriters and artists heavily........

artists and industry people are trying to educate the public, not to stream, not to download and burn illegally, and to support musicians, but..........does the public care, or does the majority just want free music? when it comes down to money, alot of people can't hear or appreciate the difference between a recording that cost 8k to produce and one that cost 80k to produce.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 18:11:03 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Glass is more than half empty. What to do?

i've been effectively told. Thank you for taking the time. The question then remains. What can the musician do to improve his/her lot given the circumstances that are prevalent? Maybe musicians need to come together and recognize (like teachers or other groups do) that they need a unified approach to change the direction that has caused this pain.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 18:07:26 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

JT, i forgot to include that today the clubs expect the acts to promote the gig......yeah, even here in NYC


Entered at Sun Sep 7 17:58:01 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Subject: Plug In, Click Your Mouse, Aim, Fire

JT, what you describe as "The plight of the aging musician in some cases is very sad and it has a lot to do with these rapidly evolving changes" & " Adaptation to the new technology that has eroded the old systems and is the process of replacing it is critical for the continued financial success of these musicians." Well, just how does one adapt to the ice age? How do you adapt to a volcano erupting? OR a nuclear fucking bomb exploding? What you don't get is that it's even worse for younger musicians, the older musicians at least lived through what was a great period...Gene Simmons hit the nail on the head in that regard........ Once, labels paid advances, once there was artist development, once gigs paid something decent, many bands had a chance to grind out a living on the road,,, most don't have a prayer today

What gigs pay in the majority of clubs, not just restaurants and coffeeshops, is a pittance. Here in the U.S., it more often than not comes down to about a hundred to 200 a person, Often less than 100 bucks a person. OF course there are better paying gigs. Sometimes. There are some theaters, there is some circuit, the list of decent performers on it shrinks all the time... btw, the locally funded summertime gigs pay better than most club gigs

It's not just the plight of the aging musicina, as you tag it. It's the plight of most musicians today. And it's getting worse - tied in to what you see as awesome- the proliferation of material being available, is a plethora of acts willing to play for nothing, or next to nothing. Clubowners get bands to play for nothing, or next to nothing all the time, it;s the trend today. So many clubs, all you get is tips, or maybe a per4centage of the bar, many clubowners refuse to guarantee anything anymore.

About a year ago i had a chance meeting with a family, from my same old neighborhood. that that led to a long conversation where we found we have a gazillion connections. The husbands brother was the very successful founder of a major music magazine that he sold to someone else, who has built a enormous empire in the entertainment business. Anyway, i had a phone conversation with the magazine founder guy, who lives elsewhere now.. He also has "produced"hundreds of records, and " broke "quite a few bands. The bands he broke, so to speak, essentially all suck, are third to fourth rate, but twenty years later, some are still around. Anway, the guys a total dickhead ............ ripped me apart - in his mind, you pay no one. Using superior established musicians that that you have to pay to record, using great studios and great engineers that you have to pay well , is all wrong. He says, and he succeeded with you pay no one. even established been around artists... You future everyone. If there is profit later, after you recoup and you earn, then they earn. You find young bands to perform , bands that you don't have to pay, and they get all their families and friends to the club to support the gig so you make money to pay off recordings. and then later, when there's money you pay them..... Well, bands always worked for less , on the way up, but they got paid. Living expenses were not also not as outrageous as they are today. this guy i;m talking about started becoming successful with this approach, after the bottom fell out. but, it's a shitty approach. Bands always had to live a little hard on the way up, but it wasn't impossible. And when they did connect with a deal, there were advances to make records.... But years ago, there was also more of a vetting process built in to the upcoming, or do it yourself acts..... if they wanted to record on their own dime, they had to come up with some decent money....today , all you have to have is a computer to make a shitty sounding recording... Sure there is alot of music available...... a lot of crap to wade throrgh too...i'm, not about to tell anyone not to write, or not to record...but,once upon a time there was a scene, there was a economy, ( not just a industry) that did offer some way for bands to make it or not, there was an economy that either validated and to varying degrees supported bands musical ability and attraction, or invalidated bands musical ability . Today, everyone thinks they are great, evryone is a legend in their own mind,... and guys like you applaud the sheer numbers....... Almost everyone can run, all you have to do is out one foot in fornt o fthe other more or less, it;s become that way with making a cd. alot of recordings today are the equivalent of that out of sync, ungraceful, hard to watch jogger. - is everyone a great runner? Some runners do become great runners. ALmost everyone can shoot a rifle or a bow. Does everyone become a great marksman? fuck no.... If you could make a lot of money and notoriety, if people could get applauded for marksmanship, if there was a high sexual attraction to marksmen or markswomen, and all of a sudden people were shooting bows and arrows and rifles everywhere indiscriminately, without intending to hurt anyone but with the idea of mamking money and gaining notoriety or getting laid, it becomes very fucking dangerous and harmful..

Kevin :-)


Entered at Sun Sep 7 15:59:43 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Education, Dylan and Billy Joel

I am a life-long student. I still prefer to go into a lecture to learn the newest information about a topic in my field from the person (lecturer) who knows it best. There are many on-line deliveries of the same information that I can access at any time and I do that because there are less and less seminars and lectures to attend. Those who are 20 years younger have no problem with sitting in front of a computer as their preferred means of getting the same education. I agree that cost-effectiveness will ultimately win the day and the one-on-one education will slowly evaporate over time. Another example, maybe, of failure to adapt or maybe its just that personal teaching is for so many reasons a more effective and enjoyable means to receive information.

But isn't it interesting that sometimes the human love for a format will win the day. Despite technology, vinyl has returned and the book held in hand has not disappeared. I saw Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits in London Drugs yesterday for $3.99 (bargain bin area typical of an all-product pharmacy) on cd and $19.99 on vinyl (in their legitimate media section). Same with Billy Joel's 'The Stranger". And so that brings us to downloading wherein a technology which emerged in the 80s is going the way of the dinosaur with unparalleled rapidity. If you think of it, the cd was still a medium with a record industry infrastructure to support it in a way similar to vinyl LPs. Its quite profound to think that the download phenomenon has replaced all of this so quickly and that EMI and Sony and all the others have now been subdued with the emergence of iTunes and Amazon and the rest. I still go into the record stores to get my music (still cds with more vinyl) but I learn about whats coming 'on line'. The thing that amazes me as I read about music and new releases on-line at so many sites is how many new and emerging artists there are. I believe they were always there but never in these numbers. In the 'old days', they did not have a means to receive international exposure and now they can get their music out potentially to be heard. That is a good thing. Whether most of them can make a living in this new world is another matter. But, there is so much talent and creativity. It is in the true sense of the word 'awesome'.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 15:59:42 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

"tool" should read "pool".


Entered at Sun Sep 7 15:58:23 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

As a musician of my age told me, on most instruments you can technically play whatever you want by your early-20s if not earlier if you are a natural. Expression or creativity may or may not grow. There are plenty of highly talented young musicians around, and while 10 to 20 years ago a lot were electronics whizzkids, the growth area now seems acoustic … so many adept young string section players. In fact, as Clapton said recently, a point approaches where you can’t play what you want any more… fingers get arthritic etc. He could envisage that time arriving.

The lack of opportunity will not stifle ability but … back to Shakespeare in the alley. Around Shakespeare’s era there was a major tool of talented writers … Webster, Ford, Marlowe etc. The theatre continued to flourish with new material well after Shakespeare retired. But when theatres re-opened after the restoration of the monarchy after 1660, they flourished and regained popularity … BUT a major part of the repertoire dated back to Shakespeare’s era. Just like the “Idols” on TV today recycle (or perhaps regurgitate) songs from the past.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 15:25:01 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: '100 bucks a live gig, maybe 200 with rehearsals'

I don't doubt that there are very talented musicians that are playing live for peanuts. They appear in local coffee shops and small restaurants on an evening and for a pittance play their instruments and entertain. Many probably did much better in an earlier era when the business was different and supported by the infrastructure that existed then. Adaptation to the new technology that has eroded the old systems and is the process of replacing it is critical for the continued financial success of these musicians. But as everyone knows, the older one is, the harder it is to adapt. The kids take to all the new gizmos as if they were born with them in their hands. We 60+s work hard to adapt to these changes and often fail. We spend countless hours trying to learn what seems to come natural to the 20+s. As always, its a new world. The plight of the aging musician in some cases is very sad and it has a lot to do with these rapidly evolving changes. But again, it is the process that has changed. The creativity has not and 'rock and roll' is not murdered but has mutated to a new system and will continue to do so. How to go from '100 bucks a live gig' to something respectable in this new system is the challenge for the mature musician.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 13:47:27 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Outside ELT or music, when I'm writing other stuff about an era, I compile a playlist of songs of that year æ including ones I don't even like.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 13:44:26 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Wallsend. I wonder sometimes how music on all day effects what you write. I did a book once with "One trick Pony" on incessantly, then a year later bought the new Douglas Adams novel which credited Paul Simon for One Trick Pony as the music he listened to while writing it.

I've had a major "rush" writing job the last two days and had the new First Aid Kit "Stay Gold" on replaying constantly the first day, then "For The Good Times" by The Little Willies for the second day (which was on the desk as I'd been listening to it for the Norah Jones Toppermost). Both worked for me! Both quite calm in fact.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 13:38:00 CEST 2014 from (58.104.20.200)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Peter, there is no doubt that person to person works best. The problem is this. If with online teaching you can get (say) 60% of the result of person to person teaching at (say) 10% of the cost, then online teaching is cost effective especially for cash-strapped universities. This year I have been introducing the material in a blended learning mode and we will offer the fully online version from next year. And, before anybody complains, there is a Band connection. In between writing and making all this stuff I listen to copious quantities of the TLW, IOW and Live at the Academy (as well as spending too much time visiting this site).


Entered at Sun Sep 7 12:16:22 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Wallsend, this might be interesting to chat about off the GB, BUT as time goes by, with both my son and son-in-law working on Apps with educational content, I become more and more convinced that person to person works best, and that nothing beats a charismatic teacher (not that many are).

Keith Richard's daughter in today's Sunday Times says she was taken off on the "Voodoo Lounge" tour aged ten with no school for a year. But they took a private tutor, which meant at the end of the year she was so far in advance of her peers she lost motivation.

My granddaughter has been working through Verbal Reasoning tests for 11+ . I realized she had just been given the program and tests. So we sat and did one together, talking through it and it was obvious that no teacher had ever explained it. They all assumed it would work. It didn't.

It's one hell of a task creating online material that is both transparent AND interesting. By the time it gets transparent, the layers are stripped so it becomes dull. Good luck with it!


Entered at Sun Sep 7 10:42:10 CEST 2014 from (58.104.20.200)

Posted by:

Wallsend

In academia we have been giving lectures to students for as long as any one can remember. Now the content of those lectures can be delivered on line with much greater efficiency than in person. Students are abandoning lectures in droves and demanding more online content. In order to survive, universities need to adapt. I am currently working on an online Japanese language program. The 'trick' here is to try and combine the course content with the technology so that we have a product that will continue to attract customers. If we don't do it, we will go bankrupt. That prospect is a real stimulus for thought and action.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 09:34:46 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Subject: Roll Over Rover

Wallsend, your usage of the word "commercial" is far too narrow. And also tends to move bave and forth.... Any music available to be heard involving a transaction is a commercial product. And the readers and contributors here and elsewhere who agree with your statement" Although the new technology has threatened the business model of the music industry, I also think it presents new opportunities for people. The trick is going to be how to successfully exploit those opportunities" are essentially insanely naive.and fail to compute the evidence all around em. When it is the norm for great players based in the music capitals of the country, people with the best credits and high talent, 30 to 50 year long careers at the top of the industry,, to scramble to find work for often a 100 bucks a live gig, maybe 200 with rehearsals (or often for what amounts to gas money, just to play live), to scramble to find the occasional decent recording gigs, when mostly none of these people can get label deals of any consequence, anything past licensing recording projects for a few bucks, how can people think that the players, the artists all haven't figured out the trick. It ain't no trick, it boils down to for a gazillion reasons there is no industry or economy left for it........ or maybe the trick they failed at was being born or marrying into families wealthy enough to be able to throw money at something endlessly....


Entered at Sun Sep 7 09:02:41 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: "Shakespeare, he's in the alley"

A very good example, Peter. The end of the Shakespearean period per se (the rock and roll of that period) and the structure surrounding his works did not end the creation of the literary process. It is still being carried out through centuries. The writer continues to produce ideas in media that can be appreciated. The delivery changes but the art remains. We don't have to recount the lists of authors who continue to perform. Again, it may be more difficult to achieve prominence but somehow many continue to achieve to our benefit despite the challenges of technology and its impact on the process.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 08:54:30 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

To clarify … per capita, people bought more records in Europe than America, where radio dominated for delivering music in the 20s to 40s. Post-WW2 saw an explosion in records, though 78s had already sold in vast quantities. The record player became a near universal home item after WW 2.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 08:48:46 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The Arcade Fire example (“Name some tunes …”) is good. Napier-Bell’s book traces a trajectory of the music business from published songs with paid pluggers trying to sell sheet music to people to play, then to plugging to radio. Recorded music, to my amazement, was initially more important in Europe due to limited numbers of centralized, often government-controlled radio stations. But after WW 2 recorded music exploded.

The album took over … the birth of recorded music saw a 45 v 33 or single v album battle, headed by RCA v CBS (both now part of the same conglomerate). The album had prevailed by the late 60s, but singles sold albums. BTW, that’s why I’d eliminate Led Zep from the “name ten tunes” concept because they refused to release 45s, and for people who were not specifically into Led Zep, in Europe with singles-dominated radio, they did not register individual songs anywhere near as widely as The Beatles, The Stones, Dylan (via covers also), The Eagles, Queen etc. They sold so many albums that perhaps they’re the example of the album’s peak.

What has happened is first downloading put the attention back to pre-WW 2, where it was the song or the track that mattered. Choose an album. Go to iTunes. Look at the downloading popularity graph. Very few albums will be anywhere near even. Tracks leap out. Streaming has intensified that. All these “Idol” shows produce people from nowhere who are not songwriters, so they choose from an existing “library” of songs, and when they put out albums, they tend to be compilations of “tracks” again. It all accelerates to the song or the track, away from the album (however delivered).

So have we lived through the Golden Age of music creativity? My old comparison … 1564 Shakespeare born. First commercial theatres already under construction. 1586 -sh. He moves to London. Theatres are hugely popular and remain so beyond his death in 1616. 1642. All public theatres closed when English Civil War broke out. End of an era. When they re-opened 20 years later, it had all changed. So … golden age of drama. 1586 to 1642. 56 years. Golden age of popular music? Maybe it’s around the same half-century.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 06:42:13 CEST 2014 from (58.104.20.200)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Bonk, OK but in order for music to get wide exposure it has to be successful as a commercial product. I am sure there are heaps of really talented musicians who aren't well known simply because they either (a) didn't want to or (b) could't turn their music in to a commercial product. Although the new technology has threatened the business model of the music industry, I also think it presents new opportunities for people. The trick is going to be how to successfully exploit those opportunities. This doesn't just apply to music but to a whole range of industries including my own, education.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 04:20:45 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.154)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: What A Party

A while ago someone posted about Levon saying that pre-Dylan Hawks' recording of "What A Party" was unprofessional. While I'm glad that it was released (in the late '90s on a British comp of Ronnie Hawkins' Roulette material), I'd say that Levon was correct in his assessment.

The main thing is that the recording was never even completed. Levon's undermiked vocal suggests that it was a guide vocal that Ronnie Hawkins should have come in later to over-sing. There's also no lead guitar or sax, presumably because that too would have been added on top of the completed rhythm tracks at the same time as Ronnie sang.

Some other interesting points can be gleaned or surmised from the sessionography in the CD booklet. "What A Party" was the only song recorded by the Hawks that October 1961 session, and three takes survive (and a couple of others did not). This suggests that Hawkins was expected to turn up, but didn't; the producer and the engineer may well have decided to start the work without him, but at some point decided to call it quits.

Hawkins and the Hawks had recorded several songs three days earlier, and recorded several more three days later - all in NYC. This suggests that the group was in town for a week-long club booking and used their off-stage hours on three of those days to record.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 02:46:55 CEST 2014 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Wallsend

I don't think, in fact I know that I've never listened to music as a commercial thing. I listen to it because it moves me. It makes me happy or sad or just catches my attention. Right now I'm listening to Allison Crowe sing 'I've never loved a man' And she's from Salt Spring by way of Nanaimo!


Entered at Sun Sep 7 02:40:06 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Rock Music lost its Roll a long time ago........

Murder....maybe not but let's accept justifiable homicide......a collective action it was....an almost unplanned assault with the gun being technology and absolutley no gun control.........anyhow, it was time, rock n roll had pushed Jazz and Blues into the ditch decades earlier........For me it died when The Replacements sold nothing and U2 sold millions........for others it was when Michael Stipe cut his hair........for others, it was a simple realization that Arcade Fire had been the biggest rock n roll band on the planet for 1/2 a decade and there was not a person anyone knew anywhere who could hum one of their songs......in fact a sure bar bet is to ask anyone who claims to be a rock n roll fan to name more than 2 of their songs......Reverse things 25 years and try winning that bet with Beatles, Stones, Pink Floyd, Eagles, Led Zep or Queen as the subject.


Entered at Sun Sep 7 02:26:20 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Wallsend, there are degrees of everything. Your statement, as many of our statements often are, was too general. Skipping chapters worth of things i could write in response, i'll jump to this inadequate response--- for many decades we were fortunate in that some, maybe mmany fortunate artists were able to make a living playing relatively non commercial music that many fortunate people were able to sponsor,consume and enjoy, and many more fortunate artists, often building on the music of some less fortunate artists, were able to entertain the whole world, influence the culture on a large scale, and become wealthy in the process.

As i often discussed i the past, there was that golden period when the technologies wee developing, the industrial revolution was still spawning increased consumer powers, and the world was exploding socially and artistically, culturally.... Track the forces from the 20s up............. it all came to a head and blew up in the 80s.........with the wishes of the labels to cash in with a new format , cds, rerelease everything, and another new tendency on the labels parts- they eventually were not making enough money, and only going with safe bets........ now all they can back are the safest bets- the irony of your statement is that the industry has become self regulated by the need to only back sure fire commercially successful resulting music...... more and more alike sounding too..... and the labels have gone into the streaming business, with streaming ventures being operated on the business principals wall street operates on- making moves for temporary results that often lead to the demise of the company.....but, sure, before the advent of recording, few composers or artists were able to support themselves by their art.. and yeah, people played music for fun... thats totally disconnected to the subject of how the playing field open for a few decades has been turned into fairly fatal quicksand


Entered at Sat Sep 6 23:15:48 CEST 2014 from (58.104.20.200)

Posted by:

Wallsend

We are all accustomed to thinking of music as a commercial product but in most places and in most times it human history people played music simply because they enjoyed it.


Entered at Sat Sep 6 19:22:48 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Gene Simmons … he had record company support indeed. Read the wonderful book on the doings at Casablanca Records. Young stars would love such support and investment. Unfortunately much of it is illegal.


Entered at Sat Sep 6 19:19:02 CEST 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania NorthWest

Subject: Gene Simmons Esquire article

... but where was political analysis?


Entered at Sat Sep 6 17:32:00 CEST 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Gene Simmons Esquire article

I just read Gene Simmons article. While I think he makes some good points, I do not think that despite the concerns and reasons (and they are cogent) given, this musical form has not been murdered. "Murder" means disappearance and there are many excellent singer-songwriters and groups who create and perform their new songs NOW. Though the 'take' may not be as profound financially in many cases, the quality remains excellent. Witness Beck, The National, The New Pornographers, Swans, Yo Lo Tengo, Death Cab for Cutie (many more) and all the Americana that continues to emerge. These are products of the very performers that Mr. Simmons noted and they emulate a music form that persists and thrives. The challenges, I concede, are great for the new emerging musician and the effort required may be greater, but the music continues to thrive despite this. No! Murder has not occurred. A change in approach has been required to cope with the challenges that Mr. Simmons so clearly described. And those changes have occurred and continue to result in an excellent and creative continuation of the tradition of the popular music form. Not so different than what happened hundreds of years ago to the present to classical music.)


Entered at Sat Sep 6 03:54:45 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Web: My link

Subject: Tape Heads

Slash...Another guy who prefers tape. When he speaks more he actually focuses on preferring the sound, in this context he incorrectly associates the digital sound with a more stuffy step by step process...you can record live to digital too, but live to tape , well it'll sound better. But you can get the dynamic either way. Do it digital, you'll lose more of the sound, and when sound goes, some of that dynamic feel does too. ... but, now that people are talking in general, talking about all the horrors of the modern music business, or lack of a music business , more and more artists are discussing their longtime preference for analogue recording. Y'know, getting older and all that, but i think , i;m not quite sure, but it occurs to me i may have been spouting all this shit since i entered here in 02. Sounds familiar...


Entered at Sat Sep 6 03:24:30 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Web: My link

Subject: "Rock did not die of old age. It was murdered"

Gene Simmons speaks the truth. I don't necessarily agree that the main culprit was entitled native middle class Americans.... but , the man is on the money otherwise. More to the subject of course.


Entered at Fri Sep 5 18:32:40 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Peter M: You are most welcome……yes, a glorious mix of sloppy and tight they were – great description.

Greil Marcus: At paragraph 5 he writes as part of the story he is weaving “at eleven minutes you don’t like where this is going.”….......I had been lost already ½ way through paragraph 2 – yikes!

Adam’s absence makes me worry that the ROA custom tele he built might have just blown up and stuck him to a roof – out of keyboard range.


Entered at Fri Sep 5 15:35:30 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

sadavid: Thanks for the warning. Still, it didn't take as long to plough through as Fowles' "The Magus" - and was no less rewarding (or more).


Entered at Fri Sep 5 14:59:29 CEST 2014 from (131.137.35.83)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: odd vinyl

A patent Greil Marcus high-concept excerpt from _The History of Rock 'n' Roll in Ten Songs_.


Entered at Fri Sep 5 14:29:39 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Kevin J: Yes, that Faces clip was really something, especially the long instrumental part. Very classy of his Rodship to kneel out of the spotlight during that. He should never have left them!


Entered at Fri Sep 5 13:40:36 CEST 2014 from (92.18.166.24)

Posted by:

Solomon

Subject: Gary Busey

I just switched on the TV to find Rick and Robbie's old friend Gary Busey on Celebrity Big Brother;) I've always liked him since Carny and SNL.


Entered at Fri Sep 5 10:50:02 CEST 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest
Web: My link

Subject: Wallsend's thread: everyday Dylan

Link: Dylan riding bicycle in Slovakian Republic earlier this this year.


Entered at Fri Sep 5 10:01:43 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Jagger + McCartney

I agree wholeheartedly with Peter V that Mick Jagger should never have been given a knighthood. He simply did not deserve that kind of honour.

You may already be aware but, in case not, there will be a release later this year entitled "The Art of McCartney", in which other artists cover McCartney songs. Dylan is amongst the contributors.


Entered at Fri Sep 5 09:26:54 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Curious LP

I had an interesting day with vinyl yesterday as the shop had bought in an odd collection. The one we puzzled over is an American comedy album on US Motown "Red Jones Steerikes Back" from 1969. It's about baseball, and the comedian Al Ackermann, appears to be a local Detroit personality. This is not mentioned in any history of Motown I've got. Was it a local thing? It has the Detroit team pics on the back.

Another was an test copy from Trident studios of the Marmalade Songs album. A lot of odd stuff otherwise.


Entered at Fri Sep 5 09:20:32 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Once a knight …

While Sir Paul has a few minor irritating qualities, he has been an extremely generous benefactor to charity, especially the performing art school in Liverpool, and unlike other benefactors and philanthropists, doesn't have his name put all over it nor does he use it for publicity. He's also stayed in Britain and paid his full share of taxes all his life, unlike most of his contemporaries … I still think "Sir Mick" as a tax exile most of his life should not have been knighted. Sir Elton as a hugely generous person to charities definitely deserves it. As does the recently maligned Sir Cliff.

I've always liked Paul, and having spoken at length to musicians who knew "Saint John" in his early days and had nothing good to say about him, think Paul has been badly treated by rock snobs!


Entered at Fri Sep 5 07:58:25 CEST 2014 from (98.115.129.14)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Location: Music Appreciation 101

Subject: THANK YOU Kevin J!

I was all set to post about a great time I had Friday night, knee deep in the zydeco. Went to see Terrance Simien play in Somers Point, NJ, 1500 yards from TonyMarts, ground zero for "The Hawks to The Band" evolution in '65. Now Terrance loves him some Levon (and Rick and Garth). Performs Dixie, The Weight, Like a Rolling Stone/Can't Always Get What You Want, It Makes No Difference, Lay Lady Lay, You Ain't Going Nowhere, Knocking On Heaven's Door, and on and on. He recorded Twilight, and his keyboard guy, Danny Williams was knocked out to hear that it got full Garth approval. Anyhow, Carmen Marotta, the impressario son of Tony(Mart) Marotta was there, MC'ing. He told me that when out on the road with Bob, during the "booing" year, Levon was often heard to say, "I wish I was back in that go-go bar in Jersey". Kevin, you slayed me with my favorite performance of a Sir Paul song. This rendition just beats the tar outta the original, from Plonk's soul stirring opening lines, to Rod at the peak of his power, Kenny Jones' best work in the finest band he's played with, and Mac's various powerful and always spot-on keyboards. And then there's that savant, Ronnie Wood's guitar work. Love this piece. Have an old VHS of this performance that I've completely worn out. The Faces, what an enigma: simultaneously the sloppiest/tightest band to ever play during my youth. Thanks so much, Kevin.


Entered at Fri Sep 5 06:37:11 CEST 2014 from (173.3.48.212)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: The Entire Google Contract For Indie Labels/Artists

Linked Above: The Entire Google Contract For Indie Labels/Artists


Entered at Fri Sep 5 01:54:50 CEST 2014 from (68.171.246.133)

Posted by:

Bill M

Todd: I like that line too, but as I've posted here numerous times, I hear it as a response to "Carry That Weight" - and ultimately "The Weight". Associations aside, that specific line comes to me on the voice of Booker T jones. Jeez I wish I'd kept that LP!


Entered at Fri Sep 5 01:33:24 CEST 2014 from (174.236.5.186)

Posted by:

Todd

Location: CT

Subject: Best Human Advice

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make".

-Paul McCartney


Entered at Fri Sep 5 01:29:12 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: Encore of my favourite "Maybe I'm Amazed".......rock n roll perfection no doubt about it.


Entered at Fri Sep 5 01:17:55 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

....not sure about best human.....but I am damn glad about "Eleanor Rigby" and "Maybe I'm Amazed"


Entered at Fri Sep 5 01:14:14 CEST 2014 from (58.104.17.15)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Ari, I am not sure about the best human, one of the most talented in the music field for sure. Much as I love music, I cannot say that I admire many musicians as human beings. The people I admire are people who do things for other people, not for themselves. It seems most entertainers are too self-absorbed to actually care about others.


Entered at Fri Sep 5 00:13:43 CEST 2014 from (74.90.107.154)

Posted by:

Ari

Subject: Paul

I go to this place to eat lunch most days and in the past two weeks I've seen McCartney here three times. I spoke to him once a while back at this place. It occurred to me that right before my very eyes is someone who is in the running for Best Human of the 20th century.


Entered at Thu Sep 4 21:56:44 CEST 2014 from (58.104.17.15)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

I may have mis-remembered the thing about Dylan and the Byrds at the IOW. I used to read the music papers enthusiastically back in the day but after all these years it is sometimes hard to separate out what I actually read from what I thought I read. Linked are a couple of photos of Bob playing tennis with George at the IOW. I didn't realise he did such mundane things just like the rest of us.


Entered at Thu Sep 4 21:28:33 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Subject: Adam - Garth

I was looking for something else and came across this review of the 1975 Basement Tapes.....Neither here nor there but it did bring back memories of a time when new albums or major releases were treated all so seriously.

As to Dylan.......the "new" I am really waiting for is Chronicles Vol. 2......I had expected it by year's end but that seems unlikely now.

Also hoping that Adam might be able to get an interview with Garth and explore more about "The Basement Tapes Complete" and the "Levon & The Hawks" project - including some of the points raised by Lee G.


Entered at Thu Sep 4 13:02:21 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan and The Byrds - IoW?

Not that I've heard, Wallsend.

The US contact was Bert Block (of ITA), probably because Dylan had fallen out with Grossman by then. It was a package deal for three Grossman acts: Dylan (US$50,000), The Band (US$20,000) and Richie Havens (US$8,000).

Grossman is estimated to have "earned" US$ 16,000 in commission.


Entered at Thu Sep 4 10:38:29 CEST 2014 from (58.104.18.241)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Wasn't there also some talk about the Byrds backing Dylan at the IOW?


Entered at Thu Sep 4 10:04:52 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan / Band royalty split

The "one third" thing came in a ROLLING STONE interview with Roger McGuinn. Contacted by Clive Davis about recording with Dylan, the nature of the project wasn't too clear. It was suggested that it could be a a separate Byrds and Dylan album and Davis assured McGuinn that The Byrds would get "at least 33 percent billing on it".

In my previous post, I was indeed referring to the artist royalties, not composer royalties.

And I did not mean to suggest that the members of The Band were just session musicians on PLANET WAVES (turning up at the appointed hour, playing for three hours and then leaving to go on to someone else's session). That was clearly not the case but, equally, it was a Dylan album, not a joint album, so I presume that Dylan would have got the whole of the artist's royalty - but I could be wrong.


Entered at Thu Sep 4 08:25:17 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Dodgy Business

Just been reading more of Simon Napier-Bell’s “Ta-Ra-Ra-BOOM-De-Ay … The Dodgy Business of Popular Music.” Relevant on two points to the split issue. He says by the early 70s Music Publishing companies were the best place to be, hence the major labels buying them up. He gives the examples from the Elton John v Dick James Music case.

DJM paid Elton John an advance, in return for 50% of the music publishing. The advance was recoverable from Elton’s share, so in fact cost nothing. Then DJM had a contract where they gave 50% to publishers in other markets, so in the USA DJM-USA received the royalties and passed 50% to DJM UK, who in turn passed half to Elton. So on American receipts, DJM (who wholly owned DJM USA) received 75% and Elton 25%. DJM lost the subsequent legal battle with Elton, but got to keep the songs. He just had to pay half the American receipts to Elton.

Napier-Bell points out that music publishers no longer had a function beyond collecting royalties and passing half to the writer, rarely actually “published” any sheet music, and when they did licensed out the actual printing and distribution to someone else.

Note that MFBP songs were published by Dwarf Music, Dylan’s company.

I’d imagine some sort of deal was done in 1974-75 covering at least Before The Flood and The 1975 Basement Tapes … the “one third” looks likely given the amount of content from just The Band on both.

There is a long quote from Dick Asher of Columbia / CBS (page 244) on the deal made with CBS and Dylan after “Saved.” How he knows word for word what the expletive-ridden monologue was, I don’t know. But the main point is that they paid Dylan 20 million dollars upfront to sign again on the absolute condition of NO RELIGION! It includes:

Dick Asher: “I’m giving you twenty million bucks – it’s like baptising you, like sending you to heaven. You want twenty million bucks from us? Well you gotta do what we tell you. And what we’re telling you is … no Torah! No Bible! No Koran! No Jesus! No God! No Allah! No fucking religion. It’s going in the contract.”

Napier-Bell continues: “Shortly afterwards, Dylan re-signed and Asher got his notice. He’d only been kept on by CBS to solve the problem of Dylan’s new contract. If his next album had bombed like the previous two, Walter Yentikoff could have said, “It wasn’t me who re-signed him, it was Asher.”

Anyway, after reading the Napier-Bell yesterday, I went into a record shop and there were two hens-teeth rare 45s by Flamma Sherman on the “SnB” record label from 1968 and 1969. SnB was Simon Napier-Bell’s short-lived label. I’ve only seen about three records on the label in ten years, though I have the SnB label CD compilation.


Entered at Thu Sep 4 06:38:03 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: .....on 2nd thought

......it could mean he's going bonkers at chapter 15 recounting for the 79,000th time how the boys and BD were booed all around the world in 66!


Entered at Thu Sep 4 06:31:04 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

A cryptic message posted on RR's Facebook page Wednesday night that read:

"New album then book, then album then book. And repeat."

Does this mean we might be treated to some new songs before the release of the autobiography?


Entered at Thu Sep 4 06:25:33 CEST 2014 from (24.218.16.94)

Posted by:

Dave H

Artists' royalties are separate from composers' royalties; when you buy a Rolling Stones record, for example, Charlie Watts gets a cut even if he didn't write any of the songs, but Jagger and Richards will make more per unit than Charlie because they will also be entitled to composers' royalties. (This was at the heart of the dispute between Levon Helm and Robbie Robertson over songwriting credits.) Royalties are also paid to the publisher(s) of the songs (which may or may not be the artists/composers themselves) and the producer(s) of the album. It can get very complicated and without having access to the actual legal contracts and agreements that have been worked out over the years it's impossible to know for sure. It's even more complex where the Basement Tapes are concerned because at least some of them were originally recorded at a point when neither Dylan nor the Hawks/Crackers/Band were under contract to a record label and nobody involved would have thought in the slightest at the time that the recordings would ever be released commercially. So I'm sure it all had to be worked out after the fact--at the very least, for the material released on the original '75 double LP. Note also that Dylan had the Band on retainer between the end of the '66 tour and the signing of the Capitol contract in '67 (for which the Band reciprocated by giving him publishing rights on the Music for Big Pink material), and it's conceivable that the Band members relinquished their artists' royalties on the basement material as a result, since they were technically his paid employees when much of it was recorded.

Aside from the composing royalties to which Danko and Manuel (now, their estates) were and are entitled for This Wheel's on Fire and Tears of Rage, which is a separate and clear-cut issue, I would guess that the Band members received artists' royalties for all three of the albums they did with Dylan in the '70s. True, Planet Waves is credited to Dylan alone (because the Band serves as backup only and doesn't perform its own material as on the other two) but it's really hard to imagine that Dylan only paid the Band a flat session fee and didn't cut the group in on a percentage of the album sales, broadcast rights, etc. (They may have even received producers' royalties as well; there is no credited producer for PW so it's hard to know for sure. Possibly Dylan kept those, or split them with Robbie Robertson.) However, the Band would probably have made more $$$ per unit out of the other two albums because the group would also have received composing and publishing royalties for the non-Dylan material.

The fact that the new box set is officially credited to "Bob Dylan & The Band" suggests that the members/heirs are getting artists' royalties, but there's no way to know for sure unless someone in the know confirms it. It's also not clear to me from the publicity material that's come out about the new box set whether or not Garth Hudson has had any involvement in putting it together (since he sold the actual tapes years ago), but if so, presumably he's also being compensated for that work as well.


Entered at Thu Sep 4 01:54:13 CEST 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F.

Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Web: My link

Subject: Jesse Winchester

The new Jesse Winchester song 'Everyday I Get The Blues' which will be on his last record is so beautiful. Right up there with Yankee Lady, A Showman's Life and Mississippi Your On My Mind. Dylan years ago when asked about the great songwriters said you always had to include Jesse Winchester. So true.


Entered at Thu Sep 4 01:42:28 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan / Band royalty split

In short, I don't know but I do have a couple of observations.

In March 1970, there was an attempt to get The Byrds to join a Dylan recording session. It fell through but one of the things mentioned then was that there was discussion about the royalty split. What was mentioned was two-thirds for Bob and one third for The Byrds.

It was therefore interesting to me that, on both 1974's BEFORE THE FLOOD and 1975's THE BASEMENT TAPES, on which The Band are co-artists (as it were), they contribute roughly one third of the tracks.

In contrast, on 1973's PLANET WAVES, they are named individually under a heading that says The Band but it is a "Bob Dylan" album not a "Bob Dylan and The Band" album. I assume that they were treated more as session musicians than co-artists.

Likewise, I assume that the new BASEMENT TAPES COMPLETE will have Dylan as the artist, not Dylan + Band.

On the 1975 album, Robbbie probably got something for his role as "compiler", though I'm less sure about Garth's role as recording engineer.

Perhaps in a reversal of roles, on the new album, Garth seems to have played a more significant role, so presumably was recompensed, while Robbie has not yet been mentioned as being involved in the recent work on the recordings. Indeed, it would appear that his work for the 1975 release has been removed.



Entered at Thu Sep 4 01:41:04 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Carmen

The answers would be multi-layered I believe......the songwriters ( co-writes ) in these cases Rick and Richard do earn the songwriters royalties above and beyond but I am confused as to what entity existed to cover the band before it was officially The Band............also, the case of how that entity would compensate members that were not present for much of what is on the BT........referring to Levon who was out of State for chunks of the recordings..........David P is really the guy to answer these questions........hope he can......and as a bonus let me know "what's spinning on his turntables" these days.........a road trip coming up and I need some suggestions!

Mike Nomad: A wonderful post on your memories of seeing The Hawks.........I could almost feel it........"Played it Loud"....I am sure they did!


Entered at Thu Sep 4 00:49:53 CEST 2014 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: pa

Subject: basement tapes cd

this is a serious question and not at all meant to start up a discussion on the feud. The new release is Bob Dylan and The Band - how does The Band get paid since only 2 members get writing credits. do the members get paid more because their name is actually part of the title?


Entered at Wed Sep 3 22:34:33 CEST 2014 from (58.104.18.241)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

I am not so familiar with the pre-Dylan Band, what exactly is available in terms of boots of that period. Also, does the linked You Tube channel belong to some one that posts here? There is heaps of stuff there much of which I haven't heard before.


Entered at Wed Sep 3 09:14:01 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

My memories of ballrooms in 1963 -5 all involve seeing fights and blood on the floor every time. I guess it was the fact they were dances which led to altercations over women. Late 60s it was rare to see a fight, though the biggest I ever saw with the place reduced to matchwood was in 1970 in outer London. It took about twenty police to stop it. I would assume that the promoter had been remiss in rendering his donations to the gentlemen who volunteered to prevent such unhappy events. I think the fact that dancing stopped and people stood and sat and watched helped avoid trouble. Also, perhaps bouncers became more expert in getting rid of trouble fast.


Entered at Wed Sep 3 02:48:25 CEST 2014 from (184.145.65.238)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Location: Nostalgiaville

Thanks for the link, Kevin. It brought back a fond memory of driving up to The Bend in the summer of 1960, a Friday night, with three friends and watching Ronnie and the Hawks at the Imperial Hotel. A fight broke out in the bar between two ladies. Man, what an evening! A nice breeze off the lake, a room full of potential brawlers, a shitload of Labatt's Blue, and the greatest music you would ever want to hear. And, yeah, they played it loud.


Entered at Wed Sep 3 01:22:53 CEST 2014 from (82.132.239.155)

Posted by:

LEE

Subject: Levon & The Hawks

Many years ago I sent a tape to Mr Haust & he also has a tape from Garth which Garth received, as i did, from Greil. Studio material such as Bacon Fat & Robbies Blues from Duff Roman. Levon told me he didn't want the demos from Duff released as he didn't think they sounded professional. He had the same opinion when I played him the recordings from Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks The Roulette Years...Further On Up The Road/Nineteen Years Old by the way What A Party is not Levon Helm singing as confirmed by Levon & Garth to me when I played them the track


Entered at Wed Sep 3 00:39:03 CEST 2014 from (24.114.71.211)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Bill M's mention of Grand Bend and The Hawks was interesting as I was there on Friday.....and parked literally on top of where The Hawks once played......when the famous Casino burned down 30 years ago, the town couldn't afford to do a complete removal of the foundation and the remaining debris so they just piled it up and paved over it - and now a parking lot sits 4-5 feet above street level covering the entire space where the majestic dance hall casino used to stand............There is a plaque that notes all the great musicians that once played the joint and in a nice little nod to whatever flair a parking lot can conjure up - there is a reference to the Joni Mitchel lyric about paving over paradise.


Entered at Tue Sep 2 22:45:38 CEST 2014 from (70.53.46.96)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Capacity Blues

Oh my, in my happiest dreams of being transported back in time to Yonge Street 1963 to be able to see The Hawks….I sorta counted on the number of go-go dancers alone at being 100-150 a night……….oh well, just being one of the 150 patrons when the boys took the stage would have been something.

On that subject and as to the profile of L&TH’s……..those in Toronto who attended Bob Dylan’s show ( Fall 2006?.....The “Modern Times” tour with Foo Fighters opening) at ACC will remember well that just before BD introduced the band, he took the mike and said something like “ah Toronto, I’ve been coming here a long time…..anyone remember Levon and The Hawks?” which got a very big applause……..and of course Bob would have seen them in front of no more than 200-300 people back in the day.

Also worth remembering that Carl Perkins –someone who knew a thing or two about good bands - went out of his way in several interviews over the years to note that no band working the circuit in those days were better than The Hawks. A mighty fine complement.


Entered at Tue Sep 2 20:32:27 CEST 2014 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: Capacity for LatHs shows in Toronto and Ontario

Bill M is right about the Concord and likely most other taverns and bars. These had a relatively small stage and a capacity that would likely top out at 100-125 or maybe even less. The other venues I assume could hold a few hundred and definitely less than 1000.


Entered at Tue Sep 2 18:31:28 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: I'm sure the dance palaces had that sort of capacity, but not the bars - nothing like it. So the additional cost of having Garth must've been felt - likely by all and not just Ronnie. I'd like to think that JT will have an accurate sense of the Concord's capacity. By the way, for the big dancehall gigs, e.g., Grand Bend, Hawkins called in extra horn players. A couple of people have mentioned Moe Prier on sax, and Moe recalls playing alongside an auxiliary trumpeter named Doug. (This was in addition to our guys plus Penfound.)


Entered at Tue Sep 2 17:51:40 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: How much ball room do you need?

Bill (and others), what sort of size were the venues The Hawks played 1963-1965? In my imagination they’re quite big. I’m working on the Zoot Money Toppermost currently, and researching and remembering. Zoot had a seven piece in the Sands Combo – organ, bass, drums, piano, guitar, sax + Dave Anthony on vocals. That’s exactly the size of Ronnie & The Hawks when Jerry Penfound was on board. The Pavilion Ballroom where I used to see them every week now has a 900 capacity. As fire safety regulations have become so much stricter, I’d guess it was quite a bit more in 1963. Maybe 1200? I tend to think of a similar size as the Hawks did play summer resort ballrooms outside Toronto, but I could be way off. That sort of capacity can afford a 7 piece.

Rob the Organ will know the expression “Victor Silvesters” for wide trousers. Victor Silvester made many ballroom dancing records, so Victor Silvesters had plenty of ballroom.


Entered at Tue Sep 2 16:51:12 CEST 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Bonk: Jerry Penfound's early role was not clear cut. Although he's generally remembered (if at all) as the sax guy, he was initially brought in to take over from Stan Szelest as Hawkins' pianist. (Rick Danko joined at pretty much the same time, replacing Rebel Paine, who'd left with Szelest). So, as photos show, the Hawks were a quartet - Helm, Robertson, Danko, Penfound - until Richard Manuel was brought in. Presumably Richard's arrival caused Penfound to focus solely on his sax-playing. Hawkins' decision to hire Garth Hudson was musically brilliant but economically questionable: an extra keyboardist / saxman for a band that already had two keyboardists and a saxman. This meant another mouth to feed from the same pot of revenue, and there was certainly no guarantee that the drinking customers would care that much.


Entered at Tue Sep 2 14:22:30 CEST 2014 from (175.179.199.55)

Posted by:

Kerrin

Revolutionary changes or not, no technology can revive things that were not on the tape to begin with.

The BT were another story, because they were recorded on good equipment, and in stereo, so there is a little bit of mixing control, and far greater frequency range, dynamic range and separation. The original release gets a lot of flack from purists but it remains one of my favourite Dylan albums, and favourite Band albums. Overdubs and all.


Entered at Tue Sep 2 06:55:55 CEST 2014 from (63.142.158.9)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Barbara Lynn

Try her Can't Buy My Love". Robert Plant covered that one with his Band of Joy. She's from Beumont TX and influenced Doug Sahm too. On that track you can hear an Augie Meyers style of organ sound -


Entered at Tue Sep 2 03:04:22 CEST 2014 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Subject: Barbara Lynn

Give a listen to this Lady doing "You'll lose a good thing" on youtube. Levon and the boys were listening to this stuff back in the day and were trying to better it with their act. Hence Jerry Penfound. Do the Honky Tonk still knocks me out.


Entered at Tue Sep 2 02:16:14 CEST 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Re-mastering technology goes through revolutionary changes every year now.


Entered at Tue Sep 2 02:09:07 CEST 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: HMV v. Amazon

According to the financial pages, HMV is on the brink of returning to be the UK's biggest CD/DVD retailer in terms of sales of "physical music", ahead of Amazon. Apparently CD and vinyl sales grew by 3% in the 12 months to June but HMV's sales grew by four times that. Amazon now has 20% of the UK market across music and DVDs and HMV is snapping at its heels with 19%. Most surprisingly, HMV does not sell "physical" product on-line. The HMV Chairman says that it's about being "an authority on music" rather than "selling music as a commodity"


Entered at Tue Sep 2 01:38:52 CEST 2014 from (175.179.199.55)

Posted by:

Kerrin

If we want a sample of how a Hawks show might polish up, I guess Do The Honky Tonk from the ATGD box set would be an indication. Surely they used the best available source for that, and I don't think re-mastering technology has changed that much in 20 years. A whole CD, let alone a set, of that would challenge even dedicated Band fans. I too have the boots. I would add that the vocals were a revelation. Richard is really at his peak, and Rick is being pretty "straight" compared to later live stuff. Garth was fantastic on the tapes I have, and Robbie never played that way with The Band. Beyond that though...you can tell they're very tight, but it just sounds like a pulse.


Entered at Tue Sep 2 01:24:42 CEST 2014 from (58.104.20.232)

Posted by:

Wallsend

Web: My link

... and the same song from a few years later. Where did all those years go. I remember seeing Summer Holiday and it being one of the first songs I liked.


Entered at Mon Sep 1 22:39:20 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: ABC Kingston, not Croydon!

I never thought I'd link to a drum solo, but go 35 seconds in to miss the banter and you have The Shadows recorded live in 1962 doing "Little B." Forget the music for a moment … and just compare the recording quality, even on YouTube for drums that year.

I might add that Brian Bennett started a long and highly undesirable tradition here, but it's 1962 recording that's of interest,


Entered at Mon Sep 1 22:31:13 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

There's not a lot of dialogue over this 8 CD set, is there? I mean with the producers. I'm so fascinated that I dug out Port Dover, Craig Plaza and Old Shoes bootlegs. The quality is extremely low … fascinating to hear the vocals, but not a lot else is worth listening to. Compared to Zoot Money live at Kook's Kleek, as I've said before, I suspect in 1964 Zoot might have … well, hardly blown The Hawks off the stage … but would have won on points from a neutral observer, with much the same instrumental line up too. Having a lot of good banter and audience interaction helps of course.

I started playing around listening to early 60s live recordings. Trini Lopez, Joey Dee, Johnny Rivers. Joey Dee really does sound badly recorded now, but Trini Lopez with a simpler band survives well.

The crispest though, rejected back in the day, is Cliff Richard & The Shadows Live At The ABC Croydon … they actually managed to record live drums well in 1962, which as way beyond most professional engineers.


Entered at Mon Sep 1 19:22:37 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Norah Jones

Today's Toppermost (linked) is me talking about Norah Jones. Do comment over there if so moved.


Entered at Mon Sep 1 13:50:32 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The Basement Tapes wouldn't be that primitive … a good semi-pro recorder like a Revox at 7.5 IPS has plenty of frequency range, and even if they used stage mics rather than dedicated recording mics, there's still plenty of inherent quality. The problem in a venue is going to be the quality of the mic and whether there was just the one.


Entered at Mon Sep 1 11:02:29 CEST 2014 from (58.104.20.250)

Posted by:

Wallsend

I am a bit sceptical as to whether the quality could ever be pushed up to a commercial standard. With the basement tapes, even if it was recorded on primitive equipment, it was in a controlled small environment. A live recording of a rock band in a largish venue with probably dodgy acoustics would be a different kettle of fish.


Entered at Mon Sep 1 09:43:56 CEST 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I'd imagine they know what they're going to do, but there was a recent article on the rise of subscription publishing in both books and music. There are various models and even agencies who set it up. I think the last Simone Felice and the last Linda Thompson had subscription models. You pre-buy, or subscribe more for a signed copy, or even more for a de-luxe version or whatever. In the Linda Thompson case and others, subscribers are listed on the sleeve.

It is enabling stuff to get out. But who knows with this one? They got the Rick Danko albums out without subscriptions. They must have a business plan, but I still think a "taster" is essential to drum up interest.



Entered at Mon Sep 1 08:12:37 CEST 2014 from (58.104.20.250)

Posted by:

Wallsend

If the release of pre-Dylan Hawks material is not commercially viable maybe it could be crowd-funded as Elliot Landy did with his book of Band photos.


Entered at Mon Sep 1 04:34:18 CEST 2014 from (67.83.171.31)

Posted by:

Ray

Piss on you aunt and splash her off, LOL... no thanks.


Entered at Mon Sep 1 02:53:40 CEST 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Boiler Makers!

Bunch-a-piss ants!......Be a man fer chris-sake! Drink Crown Royal with a splash a water and follow it with Lucky Lager beer.......BURP!


Entered at Mon Sep 1 02:37:57 CEST 2014 from (184.145.65.238)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Good advice, Ray, but, alas, too late. I'll try to be good from now on.


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