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The Band: Live at the Academy of Music 1971

Levon Helm: Ramble at the Ryman

The Band: Three of a Kind

Robbie Robertson: How to Become Clairvoyant

Garth Hudson Presents a Canadian Celebration of The Band

Levon Helm: Electric Dirt

Garth and Maud Hudson: Live at the Wolf

Pulse

Dirt Farmer

Elliot Landy's Woodstock Vision

The Band Guestbook, November 2014


Entered at Sun Nov 30 23:28:24 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest
Web: My link

Subject: Hotel California: The LA Music Scene from the Byrds to Eagles

Maybe you are right Peter. I don't feel that, but supposing you are, I don't think it is something they do on purpose. The same as you feel the music of a song the way it has always been, perhaps the song just comes out that way for them.

I'm not sure if you've ever seen this documentary, (I can't get the damn link to work) but if you search the title I've written on youtube it will come up. I forgot to look at the time but this is pretty long.

The history of The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, Joni Mitchell and many more right up to Eagles. Quite a bit of narration by "the mouth" David Crosby. One thing he says about Woodstock as lists who was there " and THE BAND....then, "did I mention "The Band?"

This is a good documentary for anyone who has never seen it, and doesn't know that much about the birth of the LA music scene as it first evolved in the 60's.


Entered at Sun Nov 30 21:52:37 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: My Back Pages

I hadn't seen that before. I loved it. It proves though that Tom Petty should NEVER follow Roger McGuinn, as he comes across as an imitator, as do Clapton and Harrison vocally … they're singing it The Byrds way. Neil Young and Bob Dylan do it their way and come out better. Neil's guitar solo is better than Eric's to me. But it does make me think: McGuinn took over that song. it's his now.


Entered at Sun Nov 30 20:37:39 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Answering Posts

Right Bob, as I said the other day, in the back ground of "Hell on Wheels" I Shall be Released is great, although I think his singing of that on The Last Waltz is the one I like best.

NORBERT! good to hear you are still around. Has any one ever heard of what became of Serenity?


Entered at Sun Nov 30 20:28:02 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest
Web: My link

Subject: My Back Pages

This was taken away, but now I find it back on youtube. For me, the greatest performance of Dylan's greatest song, and again along with every one else Bob's singing is great.


Entered at Sun Nov 30 19:38:05 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Game Day!..the recipe

I'm takin' the day off, I'm not working and nobody is gonna make me! It's Grey Cup day.

Now I know not many people in the US&A cares a shit for Canadian football. The super bowl is fine, I enjoy it but give me the Grey Cup any day. A lot of people don't realize Canadian foot ball has been played much longer than in the US. Statistics say that this game is still by far the biggest sporting event in Canada. Bigger than any hockey game.

This game is of particular interest to me. Two players who went to Lord Tweedsmuir High in Cloverdale out here in the Fraser Valley with my daughter face off against each other today. They played on the same high school team, played together at Simon Fraser University. Now one plays for Hamilton, the other for Calgary. It will be interesting, and good to see Hamilton do so well this year.

So my game plan is to make a pot of mashed potatoes, stir in butter, an egg and a small jar of the sockeye salmon I did a few weeks back. You roll it into golf balls, roll it around in those good Panko bread crumbs and drop into the deep fryer 'till they are golden brown!.....a real treat to watch the game......now to work.


Entered at Sun Nov 30 12:37:50 CET 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Good time of the year

Thanks JT for the Condo blues. Do like me and Ragtime: retire :-)

Good time of the year might be waiting for Oscar nominations (Peter V) or scuba diving in treasure trunk for an old French prayer book (me) but for many it is Black Friday even here. This phenomena has finally made 'embarquement' in Scandinavia. The funny thing is that we have Black Friday but no Thanksgiving. Write a protest song, someone!


Entered at Sun Nov 30 03:19:09 CET 2014 from (67.84.76.189)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Leon Russell,on that Hank Wilson album, i think it was called Vol I, did a killer Momma Don't Allow.


Entered at Sat Nov 29 21:00:02 CET 2014 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Folksingers

Back in the 60s, my then boyfriend had a folksinging trio (boyfriend + two girls, and they were really good, too) that used to play all the local coffee houses.

They did a rousing version of Mama Don't Allow, changing the lyrics from "guitar playing" to "folksinging", with each singer joining in verse by verse, building up the harmonies. A great way to open their set!


Entered at Sat Nov 29 20:26:40 CET 2014 from (87.144.164.159)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Germany

Brown Eyed Girl all well? (miss ya)


Entered at Sat Nov 29 20:15:08 CET 2014 from (87.144.164.159)

Posted by:

Norbert

Location: Bob’s tattoo & piercing

Subject: Russia, The Wall & Kohl, Aki Kaurismaki, Le Havre & Kafka

This post comes from my iPhone, while Bob stitch a needle in my arm.

On my right hand there will be an “B A N D” (just like those Italian early poster girls), I want Bono to see this before I tell him about Christmas.

This year I went to Russia, to see if the pride is still there and to listen to stories every Russian has to tell.

On my way back I crossed the Wall and saw an old man in a wheelchair crying in front of the Brandenburger Tor.

But then Aki Kaurismaki took my hand and walked me true Le Havre. We dronk white wine at breakfast and in the hospital with Arletty we read aloud from Kafka (pure Finnish humor).

Anyway Le Havre will keep me warm this winter

Bob you drink too much.



Entered at Sat Nov 29 18:00:32 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Pat's help

I forgot to say thanks again Pat for the rest of that information. I'm looking forward to getting time to give it a listen.

Saturday morning, I'm away to work again. In the ship yard with my yacht again, installing a new genset that arrived not long ago. Have to be done and back to Port Hardy by next Friday. Got to go and move a load of road building equipment with my tug & barge. Need to get all this stuff finished so I can take my child bride to Mexico and lay in the sun for a few days.


Entered at Sat Nov 29 17:57:14 CET 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: I'm Not There

Norm, check out his vocal on I'm Not There, Tears of Rage or the I Shall Be Released that was used on Hell On Wheels (great show). Some of my favorite vocals. You actually might like the Another Self Portrait set better, where he really digs into some classic country/folk songs.


Entered at Sat Nov 29 17:43:31 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Mama don't 'llow

I'm thinkin maybe it was Smily Burnett that wrote that song, can't quite remember. Both him and Doc Watson play it quite a bit faster.

I think the Roof Top Singers did it more the style of this song of Dylan's.

Christ, every body under the sun has played the damn song. JJ Cale does a great job of it. There's a guy who sings it..forgot his name. Larry Campbell is playing acoustic with him.


Entered at Sat Nov 29 17:24:43 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Some Thoughts on the Basement Tapes

900 Miles from my Home - Bob proves how he can really sing a good song well. His voice is enjoyable and the music is great. This is the style that I enjoy.

To me many of Bob's songs? the vocal is reciting poetry with music behind it.

Apple Seed Tree is a very good sound, good song. The piano and organ are out standing and it's great to listen to. However after listening to this song, listen to an old song of Doc Watson's, "Mama don't allow no guitar, (music) playin 'round here." They are too similar.


Entered at Sat Nov 29 16:09:32 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Condo Blues: (Who Wrote This Song?)

Title: Condo Blues (Who Wrote This Song)

Date: 29.11.14

Songwriter: JT (I think)

Its 7 to 7 and I’m waiting for a ride

To go to the airport and get to the other side

Vic to To in 5 hours or more

Thinking ‘bout who wrote this song?

Sitting in the condo, not a basement but still

Its enough to inspire a ditty at will.

Drinking dark coffee and warming my heart

Thinking ‘bout who wrote this song?

Only a carry-on, we don’t do bags

Too much resistance, don’t need the rags

Avoid the fare and the movies in flight

Wonderin’ who wrote this song?

Condo to condo, cold in the east

Surrender to circumstance, good food at least

Just up Yonge St., heaven abides

Asking again, who wrote this song?

Work until evening, then out on the town

Sleep and then do it again , up and down

Walk the walk and talk the talk again

Hoping I wrote this song.


Entered at Sat Nov 29 08:05:28 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

CC, I'm talking about the rhythm of the melodies and the underlying chord structures.


Entered at Sat Nov 29 07:36:18 CET 2014 from (219.89.221.26)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: song writing

I play in a band at the moment and we mostly do original material. On my songs the guys will occasionally suggest a chord change or something else which improves the performance of the song. Its not enough to deserve a song writing credit though. As we are all brothers the songs often draw from the same experiences and history. Whoever takes the time to actually turn that into a song deserves full credit for it.


Entered at Sat Nov 29 04:26:29 CET 2014 from (66.68.62.80)

Posted by:

Crazy Chester

Location: Austin, TX
Web: My link

{ Ben, by putting "quotes" around "writes" you make it seem the "work" of songwriting is in the recollection of past events and not in the hours and hours of elbow grease that go into actually "writing" a song--not to mention the creation of melody, internal verbal rhymes and rhythms, interesting chord changes, etc } That's true ... but in that case you should have pretty much everyone involved in the band getting credits, especially Garth who changed up a lot of chords.


Entered at Sat Nov 29 00:53:09 CET 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Bringing Down The Horse

One of the all time great 2nd record.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 20:29:25 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

btw, the keyboardist in the Foo Fighters, Rami Jaffee, was in the Wallflowers.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 20:19:56 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bob F, I'm really loving the Sonic Highways series. I've been incredibly fortunate to have had enjoyable contact with a lot of the folks featured in it, particularly the Chicago segment. I think the New Orleans episode is the best so far.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 20:15:05 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, you also make a salient point: Levon's story surfaced over 20 years after the events, and a lot happened in between.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 20:12:59 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Ben, by putting "quotes" around "writes" you make it seem the "work" of songwriting is in the recollection of past events and not in the hours and hours of elbow grease that go into actually "writing" a song--not to mention the creation of melody, internal verbal rhymes and rhythms, interesting chord changes, etc.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 19:35:49 CET 2014 from (71.168.223.163)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: Lost Basement tapes on Showtime

I caught a few minutes of the lost basement tapes special on ShowTime yesterday. I enjoyed the recreation of the actual basement tapes, but when it switched to the present with Mumford and Elvis Costello, I quickly lost interest. Just on the basis of what I saw, I would say that this is no 'Mermaid Avenue'. Now that was a wonderfully realized project. It's too bad that Billy Bragg wasn't asked to participate in this.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 19:29:39 CET 2014 from (71.168.223.163)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: songwriting

The songwriting issue resurfaced a few days ago, when Sebastian posted a link to an article in which Levon denied being much of a songwriter. I just re-read Levon's quote and find nothing extraordinary here. There is no smoking gun. Please show me a quote where Levon has ever claimed to be a prolific songwriter. Levon's argument which initially surfaced in his book was that he contributed to the creation of some songs and didn't receive any writing credit. I brought 'Walcott' up as the most obvious example of this.

It seems to me on a real basic level, that if there are two members of a group, one tells stories about his childhood, the other "writes" a song based on the stories, that a collaboration has occurred and that the storyteller should share credit in the songs based on his stories.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 19:14:58 CET 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Lost Songs

Pat B, you were right about the Showtime documentary. Very enjoyable. Thanks for the tip. Are you watching the Dave Grohl Sonic Highways series on HBO? I think you would have loved the one they did on Chicago.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 19:11:41 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Norm, Blood on the Tapes now surpasses Passed Over for the BoTT material, but Passed Over has a lot of great performances including the John Hammond tribute.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 18:54:18 CET 2014 from (70.50.64.204)

Posted by:

Kevin J

I might be wrong on this but I had thought I read somewhere that “Blood on the Tracks” is next up in the Dylan Bootleg series – Volume 12.........Vol’s 1-3 and 8 remain some of the most played music I have.......not interested in Vol 11 but a BOTT - shinny and curated - would interest me.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 18:50:10 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Finding Music

Thank you for that Pat. I've copied it down. Gives me some thing to look for in good music.

Back in the day, I was enthusiastic when "Nashville Skyline" came along. Still have my vinyl. There was a lot of good sound to find. Out in the boonies where I always was, the information of course was not as available as today.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 18:31:31 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

The first bootleg I bought was The Band at the Hollywood Bowl on the Rubber Dubber Label. Probably 1971 or so. It sounded terrible but I loved it. The second was RAH and it sounded amazing. Then I started collecting a lot of Dylan boots. The quality would vary by wide margins but I listened to them as much as I listened to the official releases. But one Called Passed Over and Rolling Thunder blew me away. It was the first time I heard the NY sessions for Blood on the Tracks. Idiot Wind with PSB's brother on bass and Paul Griffin on organ was one of the best pieces of music ever recorded.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 18:12:54 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Would Levon then have to seek out the former members of the F.S. Walcott Show to share some of those writing credits?

The Band established on MFBP how the songwriting credits were to be distributed.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 18:01:11 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Steve

I agree absolutely Kevin. It has been great to see so much more information evolve about the musical history of the BAND. I enjoy it all. I only wish I could enjoy the "sound" of a lot of this archived music. I just don't.

Making a blues shuffle out of Blowin in the wind doesn't do it for me. As many of those tunes. However people who enjoy them, that's a good thing.

I suppose many of us in current events often smile to our selves and think, "what would Steve think of this?" It was shocking and sad for a family man to leave us at so young an age. There is much here he would have enjoyed.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 17:36:29 CET 2014 from (70.50.64.204)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Norm………No one could ever have known or imagined that Ghomeshi enjoyed punching and choking women…..being a playboy, a drunk, a bit of a nut all go hand in hand with many famous and not so famous people but his behavior was about as low as a human can sink……..Steve would have dismissed him outright as all have……..what Steve would have been joyous about is something else he long advocated for – and that was Garth getting interview space ! This past month or so has been a beautiful thing in that regard


Entered at Fri Nov 28 17:03:35 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Steve and his loyalty

Watching with some feelings of shame the actions of Jian Gomeshi, my first thoughts were of Steve. He was a great fan and advocate of that boy. I'm sure it would be difficult for Steve to be witness to this.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 16:22:13 CET 2014 from (24.114.71.252)

Posted by:

Kevin J

I had meant to add that of all the very special things about this website - the top of the list for me has always been being introduced to new music or turned on to older music that I had known little or in most cases nothing about........David P's "What's spinning on his turntable" semi-regular feature was great and responsible for several of my music purchases over the years.......Peter V's best of lists and concert highlights over the years has also introduced lots of music to me......JT and Bill M as well - in Bill's case often older music I had no knowledge of...........Sometimes, it is just random conversations among posters that in some ways has replaced the kinds of conversations that we all used to have in bars or the basements of friends..........I recall some years ago when John D and JT ( I think ) had some reflections on the BeeGees and my first thought was "what the hell are these guys talking about the Bee Gees for!" and then realized I had no knowledge of the period they were talking about and when I did go back and give some of those songs a listen realized how good they were.

I remember shortly after Steve passed away and his wife logged on here and in explaining what had happenned, simply recalled that he would always say that this GB taught him a lot about music........given all the other things that had happenned and subjects he covered, that was a nice thought to be left with.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 15:48:33 CET 2014 from (24.114.71.252)

Posted by:

Kevin J

......I never leave home without "Live In Alabama" with me.....a great album ! And Bill M......the Influence cd has arrived and is sitting on the backseat of my car....with the car being about the only place I listen to music these days......expect to give it a listen as soon as life gets happier which will be soon.

Has it really been 38 years since TLW concert ?


Entered at Fri Nov 28 15:35:04 CET 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Subject: Basement Tapes Raw Vinyl & David P

David P, I see they released the Basement Tapes Raw set on vinyl. Of all the folks that don't post on the Guestbook anymore I miss your music posts the most. Thanks for Jason Isbell. I knew of him from Drive By Truckers but I wan't paying attention to his solo stuff. You mentioned the Live in Alabama record one day. I checked it out and I think I've listened more to him in the last couple of years then anyone else. I wish you were still posting.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 14:54:48 CET 2014 from (24.114.71.252)

Posted by:

Kevin J

The facts on songwriting credits on the post Last Waltz-post Robbie albums by The Band speak for themselves as facts. Garth, I believe, had only one songwriting credit on the 35 songs which were contained on Jericho, Jubilation and High on the Hog. On the first two albums – Jericho and Jubilation – which I own, Levon has ONE CO-WRITE and Rick NONE and Garth NONE. So the facts are that the “one for all and all for one” thing didn’t happen in the post RR Band era either.

Let us also review the positions of people who actually know the truth:

“Robbie was the one who wrote the lyrics and wrote the music. Wrote the lyrics on legal paper, or whatever he wrote it one, and figured out the chords to the song and dictated the melody and the chords to the other players” – John Simon

“Writing with Levon, my experience was, he wasn’t gonna do any labour where writing a song is concerned. The songs we’ve co-written, when it came down to constructing the song, that was my job.” – Larry Campbell – Levon’s closest musical associate post Band

“I don’t want to speak ill of the dead, but in the three critical years of The Band’s ascendance, I was there every day. Robbie worked writing at the piano or guitar every day. In the first couple of years Richard and Rick did some writing as well. By the third album, only Robbie was taking the time and effort to write. The boys showed up at the recording studio and learned the tunes.”- Jon Taplin – Tour Manager of The Band 68-71

" I know John Simon fairly well, and once asked him point blank, did Levon have a point? Did he and the others in the Band help write those songs and were they denied? And looking me straight in the eye he said, “Robbie wrote all those songs.”” As far as I’m concerned, case closed." - Kinny Landrum - composer/musician


Entered at Fri Nov 28 14:54:07 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.111)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

I do think that discussing members or replacements in a NEW Band is ridiculous. And if you did, the right way to approach it - you'd start with tryouts for the part of Ronnie Hawkins, and then go through a whole lot of years, and players. And pussy.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 14:48:40 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.111)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Ben, for the record, or if you are not certain, I did not write that Levon did not deserve songwriting credits on Walcott. I did not write that he did either. Maybe he did. I will write that in the majority of cases,probably even every case, just telling a story, that someone else writes a song about , with no other contribution, is not songwriting. Unless there is an agreement that would give the storyteller something, he has nothing coming. And giving songwriting for story telling, would be wrong. Points, okay, MAYBE.

As I've written, for many reasons, some that I've not written about for a long time, and won't now,in my opinion, what I write regarding songwriting in general, does not necessarily relate to The Band.

Al Edge may wish to comment. May not.

Good day to you guys.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 13:14:44 CET 2014 from (71.168.223.163)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: Walcott

I'm surprised at how few people on this forum think Levon deserved a co-writing credits on 'Walvott'.

Peter, I don't understand your analogy with Patty Boyd. Do you also think Leonard Cohen should have given Janis Joplin a posthumous co-writing credit on 'Chelsea hotel #2' because she inspired the song? That's ridiculous.

Levon didn't inspire 'W.S. Walcott Medicine show'. He provided the stories about the minstrel shows that he saw in his youth in Arkansas that formed the basis for the song. He played an integral part in the collaborative process that created the song. In my book, he deserves a co-writing credit on the song period.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 12:49:28 CET 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Song writing

I had a student who was the leader in a group of this wonderful genre 'grunge'. He wrote a text using Finnish casus system. It is not easy. Ask Peter V. The question is: 1) was it because of "Rudimenta linguae finnicae breviter delineata" - the first grammar from the 17th century or 2) was it because of _me_ who was teaching this system or 3) was it because this creative guy combined grunge with grammar? (I say number three).

I still have a hand-written set list from their first festival appearance. Unfortunately the career ended for twenty five years ago. What a joy it would have been to post in his gb: "You know nothing. I know the truth. I was there." But no. What a shame.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 12:21:18 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Actually so many young bands, especially at the folkier end, have wide multi-instrumental abilities, more than was common in the late 60s. Both Jon Boden and Seth Lakeman would be classed as "fiddle playing vocalists" but they also play guitar, and seemingly can play anything with strings on it.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 11:36:09 CET 2014 from (219.89.221.26)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: song writing

I know we've done this a million times before but I love a good argument. When it comes down to song writing credits I go to P221 of Levon's book where he is talking about Carnival and says "we were all stymied until Richard came up with "two bits a shot." that made the song". He may have possibly meant Rick - who knows - but Richard should have got a credit based on LHs reasoning.

For the record I think RR gets treated terribly in many forums on the net by people who are mostly repeating something they have heard via Chinese whispers. For the most part I am in the Robbie camp regarding song writing credits. There are one or two cases (eg Chest Fever) where things could have been handled differently. Garth is that song.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 11:27:46 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I gave that some thought while awake in the night, Jim. Like the New Basement Tapes band, one should not be fixed on gender nor on combinations of instruments. You won't find a lead singer / drummer /mandolin player / harmonica player who can do a bit of guitar and bass, nor are you likely to find a keyboards player who is a great saxophonist and accordion player. In fact to get the high parts, I'd look for one woman at least.

But matching up role for role? It wouldn't work. I'd put in Simone Felice first … great main songwriter, lead vocal, acoustic guitar, plus a first rate "extra" drummer (but avoids drums when singing lead). But it doesn't correspond to any single one … he doesn't play lead guitar on stage, for example, though he probably could. I also suspect that an Americana line up of similar abilities now would have just one keyboard and a dedicated fiddle player.


Entered at Fri Nov 28 04:00:25 CET 2014 from (23.242.61.90)

Posted by:

Jim

Web: My link

Subject: The New Band

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I'm thankful that we still can hear any new music by The Band. I'm also thankful that fans can still chat here. My link is to videos from The New Basement Tapes. If a new version of The Band were to be drafted today, I think that T-Bone Burnett would be the perfect replacement for John Simon. Which living musicians would you draft to replace each member of The Band?


Entered at Fri Nov 28 03:49:56 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Dylan in Philly

Peter M: Thank you for sharing that. It does my heart good. I've heard from a few different people who I know who were at least one of the Philly shows that current Dylan and the Band are a treat. A Toronto friend (musician) said the same thing about a Toronto show he saw a few days earlier. He wasn't expecting anything special given recent experiences and he was very pleased and enjoyed the show immensely. The reviews have been uniformly good from people who didn't go to hear a 'greatest hits' show. Dylan reborn (again).


Entered at Fri Nov 28 03:44:11 CET 2014 from (98.115.129.14)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Location: the pond

Subject: Bob

On Sunday afternoon my wife Mary said, "There are a few seats available for Dylan at the Phila Academy of Music". We got two seats, up in the rafters, perfect sound in a non-stadium venue. It was blissful. Mary had never seen Dylan. I'd seen him once before in The Spectrum. Read Peter Stone Brown's review for the details, but we got to see a primary source artist present his stuff in 2014 in a suitable venue. Needed binoculars for the details visually, but the sound was perfect. What a great date for us, together since 1969. At $110 for two seats, what's not to love? Beautiful show. The band was outstanding, and Bob was like seeing one of the few masters at work. Great date.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 20:02:36 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Jon L: I did as promised. Several pages of "Old, Weird America" devoted to the recitation / discussion of "Even If It's A Pig", mostly recited by Garth but also featuring Richard's upstairs-downstairs lines. I actually heard the Garth part a few weeks ago (and it was fabulous but wacky), but not the Richard lines and not the nonsensically reworded Yankee Doodle. It'll be interesting to learn where in the chronology of basement tapings this song would actually appear.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 19:34:17 CET 2014 from (74.108.29.164)

Posted by:

Joan

Subject: Giving Thanks

As Rick Danko said "Happy Thanksgiving" Hope every one has a great safe and happy holiday,


Entered at Thu Nov 27 19:15:48 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: Absolutely, as long as you don't forget what the good book said: Be careful of the stones you throw.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 18:40:04 CET 2014 from (74.103.41.95)

Posted by:

Jonathan Katz

Location: Columbia, MD

Subject: Thanksgiving

Just finished watching TLW! Happy Thanksgiving to all.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 17:18:22 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Great message, JT.

Bill, if there;s a class action by Southern Men, can Southern British get a share?


Entered at Thu Nov 27 17:15:48 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Now for something substantially different....

From a North American: Thanksgiving. Give thanks! From the ashes of the camps, we were fortunate enough to come to this land. This man in his sixth decade (and happily counting) gives thanks along with my friends in the USA despite the troubles in Ottawa and in Ferguson and in so many places intermittently on this side of the Atlantic. I 'kiss the ground' every day for my good fortune at being here in a land of opportunity where hard work paid off and I have all the comforts of a good life.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 16:44:04 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: whoops, that was Peter M

Sorry Peter M and Jon L: Thanks to Peter for the one post and Jon L for the other.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 16:40:05 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Jon L: Thanks for that last post about Thanksgiving - and also your previous post about Richard's stairs song and how it made "Invisible Republic". I've made a note-to-self to seek it out, maybe over lunch.

And Happy Thanksgiving to our American posters.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 16:23:47 CET 2014 from (98.115.129.14)

Posted by:

Peter M.

Location: by the pond

Subject: Happy Thanksgiving

I am not the type to hear voices in my head, except for those two immortal words of Rick's that I hear first thing after waking up on every Thanksgiving. This morning I checked facebook, and there, courtesy of the Levon Helm page, was a 1993 clip of The Band on The Today Show, doing Atlantic City. It came from Randy Ciarlante's archives. Thanks, Rando and LHS for sharing this with the rest of us. What generous folks! Happy Thanksgiving, indeed.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 16:04:15 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: "Lost time is not found again"

"Odds and ends, odds and ends

Lost time is not found again"

Enough.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 16:03:10 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: Could Neil Young sue Ronnie Van Zandt's estate for a piece of "Sweet Home Alabama"? If so, all living southern men, along the estates of the departed, might consider launching a class action against Young.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 14:42:56 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

If "inspiration" for a song were the criterion, Patti Boyd would be on a royalty cut for "Something" and "Layla."


Entered at Thu Nov 27 06:32:32 CET 2014 from (24.91.116.154)

Posted by:

Dave H

"Happy Thanksgiving!" --Rick Danko


Entered at Thu Nov 27 06:26:27 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Well said, Sebastian, and right on the mark. Anyone can see for themselves what Rick and Richard thought of sharing writing credits by perusing the album cover of MFBP.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 05:49:22 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.133)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Actually Sebastian to respond to your statement "I'm sure your argument would look a lot different....." I'm not participating in an argument. You posted a link to a interview and made simple statements about it. It's far from a new interview. And it was discussed here before - of course that does not preclude discussing it another three thousand times. It's fair game, if you want the discussion. Obviously, you did and do. I made a short, polite post about that article, and offered some significant perspectives about Levon in relation to what his statements were.. Perspectives that anyone who knew him personally would probably share, and i also gave perspectives that many who did not know him but saw TV interviews, heard radio interviews , or read print interviews he gave would be aware of. I also pointed out he did not say he did not participate in writing.

It's been a very long, very wet day here. Tomorrow should be a pleasure, then the six days after, rather taxing and long. I'm looking to get in here peacably, offer a pleasant enough response to you, add some more perspective, and then get out. And that's about it. Will my response be perfect, or complete for what i wish it to be...I doubt it. Might it be too much of a response? Maybe. But, why should today be different than any other day? Hopefully I'm still as diplomatic as my first comment in this discussion, and you are more able to understand it for what it is. Very truthfully, my take on this & my views of The Band, , very frequently espoused a decade ago say, is in a way, a testament to something that The Band achieved that has never been equaled. It don't matter who one may pull out of the hat. There's The Band, off in their own class. All of em, Robbie,your dad, Rick, Levon, Garth, & Richard, indispensable to that.

In your recent comment that began as a statement to me you made a lot of points. . Levon is not here to argue any of those points with you. I doubt Garth would publicly, if at all. Garth is some one who cannot be provoked into discussing something he has no wish to, and no one will ever corner him. But, if he ever felt like answering a Yes or No question on the songwriting issue as Levon presented it - Did you Rick, Richard, & Levon expect to receive equal credit as songwriters, and equal shares of copyright as songwriters on the first two recordings?- well that would settle it for most people. I doubt anyone will ever ask him that on the record, and depending who asked him off the record, Garth could go a million ways. But he'll not discuss something he doesn't wish too. If he ever wants to discuss it, he will. Likely ? My gut says no...No one loves what The Band created more than Garth..

As you have just today Sebastian, many posters here blame the publisher and co writer of Levon's book for inciting Levon to exaggerate or create & publish those stories in his book. Many posters and people have all kind of time frames to prove such and other reasons to invalidate Levon's claim. Peter just tied Levon's public arguments re the songwriting and royalty issues to Robbie's not participating in the 83 Reunion tour.

About 3 or 4 weeks ago, a friend sent me something that he or she saw on Libby's FB page. And asked me if i had ever seen it. I had not. Apparently, anyone can go to Libby's page and see this. I never would have posted this here, & wasn't going to post it here now , but, i guess if Libby wrote it, and any one on FB can see it, she wants people to see it. This will offer a very close perspective, and a a time frame that actually can be counted on to have real significance to SOME real significiant difference between the two men.

"https://www.facebook.com/libby.titus.5/posts/10150709541313106

Libby Titus
April 23, 2012 • New York, NY •
I lived with Levon Helm from 1970 through 1974 (actually, our relationship ended in '78.) I am the mother of his daughter Amy Helm and his stepson Ezra Titus (1966-2009). Until '74, our family and the Robertsons, Robbie and Dominique and their children, were inseparable. The story of Levon's conflict with Robbie is much more complex, and much sadder, than the story that's appeared in Levon's book and in the press."

What that means, i have no idea..But, it certainly casts another light on time frames and disagreements.

In regard to parts of the conversation many are participating in, re songwriting, my actual opinions as to what does constitute songwriting , and what can legally constitute songwriting, that pertains to this discussion, would surprise a lot of people. I'm not going to get too deep into it, because it is a long, involved subject with a million possibilities. All worth deep examination. That said, turning left: The Band, for many reasons, is a special case. ...and right now, to go into the whole thing again, would be nuts... But, some will say what is good for the goose is good for the gander... well legally, songwriting can be anything agreed to. What the five guys did together, only they know. Three of em are dead, RIP...But alot happened in those rooms. And in those cars. Anywhere. All the time they were together, anywhere. Levon's argument had been that on the first two records the other 4 expected the songs to be split 5 ways completely. the whole 200% Not just the publishing. And he claimed that after that they just gave up a lot of ways......rationalization? .......I wasn't there. Who does anyone believe & why? If some one believes anyone - It's going to be based on some one's perspective, or their gut. At this point, it's kind of really not worth fighting about. Can i understand you getting aggravated by things people write? Yes . Ignore em. . Behave like a politician's kid. Maybe try to not even acknowledge it. How would i react?- i don't know...Maybe i'd just say fuck em all.. Maybe not..

Back to songwriting - The Band case: if someone had been there the whole time ,there's enough to probably write a book about what is, what isn't songwriting, and what might be and why, and the different ways to deal with things to satisfy the cases. What needs to be defined and agreed to upfront, and even agreeing to where the line may be, or that's the line, this is it, and it will not change.... ...but it's hindsight now..........So, with the caveat that for a million reasons, TO ME,,what i type now has nothing to do with the Band situation- ...., ... 1) Providing the inspiration for a song, is not songwriting. 2) Telling a story, regarding lyrics, well you tell a story, someone who hears it can write a song around it and you have no claim on that song. Now, if you contributed a unique phrase that got used, well, the writer should do something for you. But it has to be unique.Does the writer have to give songwriting for a phrase? No. Should he?...IT 'll depend on different things each case. Also, It may or may not be a good idea to offer to collaborate, but that will also depend each time... But when it comes to being given something for a contribution that isn't songwriting, He can give you points many ways. One way is to give you some publishing points. But, there are other ways too. Sebastian, you are absolutely correct when you write that arrangement is not songwriting. I agree with you. I never said nor have I ever written that arrangement is songwriting. A position i have always taken is that what happened is unique , the results are unique,, and that Levon's argument had to do with agreement........A thought.. Totally separate, where the line between arrangement and songwriting may be drawn, well, MAYBE, the line can be moved, muddied, bv factors. Or, MAYBE NOT. But, it got to be agreed.

BTW, people get paid for arrangement. Being in a band does not mean you arrange for free. I fully understand your position that your Dad gave them each 20% of publishing in exchange for all these tangible and intangible things or participations. And if that was agreed to, then there's nothing at all to bitch about. . What i have written repeatedly in the past about Levon's position is that he claimed their agreement was otherwise. That's it

For what it's worth, many people, me included, love The Band full speed ahead. Many people have been effected as much by The Band and The Band's music as much as I. I like, so many other people, would much prefer to have witnessed your father, Levon, Rick, Garth and Richard lounging on rockin chairs in their middle and old age than all this b.s having had happened. It didn't play out that way. Life happens. Neither your dad or Levon, or any of us, are perfect. I'm not wanting to get further into this this weekend, or next week. Or really at all any more Hopefully, we don't erupt here , as if we are in Ferguson, Mo.

As i'm about to post this, i just looked and saw Norm's post. Norm's advice to you, , the last sentence in his comment ( Rockin Chair) is excellent advice.

I wish you and your family, and all other U.S.A. citizens, and all Band fans and anyone who ever watched The Last Waltz, a happy Thanksgiving. One last thought - your Pop is probably a very good father. So, you're both lucky.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 04:42:06 CET 2014 from (24.199.71.83)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

Bill, if memory serves, Greil Marcus devotes a page or two of Invisible Republic to the upstairs-downstairs song. I seem to remember it was an oddball parody of an established pop song... Stagger Lee, maybe? Will try to dig it up at some point.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 04:07:10 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: The last word

If Sebastian has read this Guest Book for some time, he has to know. There are many of us who understand the man that Robbie Robertson is and always has been.

Through the mire of shit that has been flung here since time began, there are many of us who, (in loving ALL members of the BAND) still do not wish to tolerate the attitude and unproven crap that has been dealt to him.

Having said that, life has shown forever that if you put a black 8 ball in front of some people, they'll still try and tell you that it's white.

There is no doubt that it is hurtful for the young man to have to see this spewed out in public forum about his father.

Let it go, focus on the positive of the warmth of people who truly love your father and his talent and much of the wonderful music he gave us that is immortal. Let the rest of that shit go...........


Entered at Thu Nov 27 03:53:21 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.141)

Posted by:

Bill M

Ahem. I thought we'd be discussing Bts - 140 songs worth of exciting Hawks material - rather than re-pawing this torn-up old writing-credit turf. And all the new insights and slants on things that Garth provides now that writers are talking to him. Like Richard's influential upstairs-downstairs song - Was it ever recorded? Did it ever turn up in some may in a Dylan song? Does Garth or Robbie or maybe Jane Manuel recall how it went?


Entered at Thu Nov 27 01:02:54 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Chronologically, Hoskyn's book predates Levon's book by more than six months. I bought both books the day they came out in 1993. The Library page here is chronological and has them in the wrong sequence. By 1993 the value of archive material was apparent. It definitely had not been apparent in 1983.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 00:42:55 CET 2014 from (71.168.223.163)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: Walcott

Sebastian, thanks for the response. I understand your point of view. However, since this song is based on Levon's recollections, I think he deserved a co-writing credit. As the song would likely not exist without his recollections. My sense is that Levon provided lots of stories, anecdotes, memories about growing up in the South and much of this wound up in the songs on the first three Band albums.

Regarding the timing of Levon's comments. I don't think that in 1983, there was much perceived value in the songwriting catalog of the Band. They were certainly out of fashion in the late 70's, early 80's. I don't think there was any way for Levon to anticipate that the Band's catalog would have substantial value in the coming years. This was just prior to the advent of the CD and the re-issue of the Band's catalog, followed by re-re-issued catalog with bonus tracks and the box sets (The Last Waltz, A Musical History, Live at the Academy, The Basement Tapes Complete) By 1992, when Levon's book was published, the value of the Band's catalog would have been much more apparent.


Entered at Thu Nov 27 00:41:07 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

It's said that "A Midsummer Night's Dream" was Shakespeare's only play which had no external source. No "inspiration" other than his own ideas. All the other plays are based on histories, or Italian stories, or Classical stories. We still say that Shakespeare wrote them. Because he did.

Richard Burbage became a star in the early 1600s playing the parts Shakespeare wrote. I don't think he ever claimed he "wrote" them.


Entered at Wed Nov 26 23:38:10 CET 2014 from (75.85.25.164)

Posted by:

Sebastian

Subject: Ben

Fair enough. However giving an idea, in general, does not constitute songwriting. Walcott for example... If you tell me about a music festival, and I'm intrigued by it, so I go home and write a chord progression, the lyrics about said festival and the melodies, did you co-write the song with me? I don't think so. Did you participate in the overall creative process? Yep. And that's why you most certainly earned your share 20% of the publishing. That's also called being in a band and is another reason why advances, and touring are divided equally. There are many ways to look at this and I absolutely appreciate your point but these credits are discussed before, during and after each album. No one gets blindsided. Agreements are made and kept. Levon knew the writing split on Walcott at the time and according to my dad it wasn't an issue. This was never an issue until that book was written. Never once did any member of The Band come to my dad and express any concern. Never. If you had an issue with me and had been a part of my life for decades would you run it by me before you published a book? Would you at least inquire? I would.


Entered at Wed Nov 26 23:17:23 CET 2014 from (71.168.223.163)

Posted by:

Ben

Location: New Jersey

Subject: songwriting

Sebastian, thanks for posting the link to that article. I've never seen it before.

I can understand your frustration at seeing your father slandered in social media. I don't condone this, but I don't the question of songwriting credits is as black and white as you seem to believe. I don't doubt that your father was the primary songwriter on the majority of songs that he is credited for.

However, I believe that Levon did make contributions to songs that he was not credited for. The most obvious example is 'W.S. Walcott medicine show'. Levon speaks about seeing F.S. Walcott minstrel show in both 'The Last Waltz' in his book. Yet, the song is credited soley to Robbie Robertson. In my view, Levon should have received a co-writing credit for this song, and probably a few others.


Entered at Wed Nov 26 23:08:10 CET 2014 from (216.226.180.40)

Posted by:

Deb

I haven't looked in here in a long time, but I see that some things never change. There's not much to add to Sebastian's comments, but I will say this: Robbie Robertson's career is marked by varied, creative work and great talent. His public comments about his friends and fellow musicians show him to be a gentleman of integrity and character. So is his son.

Happy Thanksgiving, y'all.


Entered at Wed Nov 26 22:56:28 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Well said, Sebastian. As I say every time this comes up, listen to Diana Ross with The Supremes and Temptations version of "The Weight." (Or Aretha Franklin or Jackie De Shannon or Spooky Tooth ). So what part of it did Levon allegedly "write"? The drum parts are all totally different. But it's still the same song.

It's amazing what knee-jerk shite appears on YouTube comments.


Entered at Wed Nov 26 21:59:44 CET 2014 from (131.137.35.74)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: Sebastian

Amen.


Entered at Wed Nov 26 21:51:01 CET 2014 from (108.217.93.87)

Posted by:

Glenn T

Yes! I agree with both Sebastian and Kevin J. Thank you Sebastian for hanging in there, putting up with so much crap, and helping to promote the music.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!


Entered at Wed Nov 26 20:45:47 CET 2014 from (70.50.64.204)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Bravo Sebastian – beautifully stated. And to those who still wonder what this may be about, saunter on over to The Band Facebook page or to RR’s Facebook page or to any Band YouTube video and see how even the launching of a children’s book is greeted in a majority way by posters as an excuse to trash RR – all in some distorted way by posters who claim to “love Levon”. It has gotten so bad that it is embarrassing to even visit those sorts of pages. These are supposed to be celebrations of music and lives led. The only way I can see this changing is for Levon’s family to issue a statement asking fans to stop this nonsense. It would be a lovely and gracious gesture that would complement his legacy and bring some joy back to The Band family.


Entered at Wed Nov 26 19:34:01 CET 2014 from (75.85.25.164)

Posted by:

Sebastian

Subject: Jeff A

I'm sure your argument would look a lot different if your father was viciously slandered on a daily basis. Not a writer in the traditional sense? Agreed, that's what the publishing side of the songwriting royalties are for and that's exactly why it was split evenly between all members. Arrangements, structures, harmonies etc. All an important part of building a song and also something that John and Paul didn't give ANY credit for. NO PUBLISHING. NOTHING. However, when faced with this decision as the main songwriter in The Band my dad made the conscious decision to share the publishing side 20% each. The sad fact is, the reputation of a good man has been forever tarnished in the name of book sales. I don't know what people think my dad does but at 71 he's working at least 8 hours a day. He doesn't live off The Band he lives off what he creates and continues to hustle for year after year. I know that Levon is also a good man and I firmly believe he was guided by a money thirsty book publisher and by a co-writer who has been often credited with fabrication. When an article like this surfaces, I believe it's important for people to get this insight. I believe it's an important window into the soul of a good man. My dad loves Levon and always will. Hence the fact that he's never spoken an ill word about him in his life. I just wish the community of Band fans could do the same.


Entered at Wed Nov 26 15:52:14 CET 2014 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Download

Cheers P.

:0-)


Entered at Wed Nov 26 15:44:48 CET 2014 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: BT

Cheers for the nods fellas.

To be fair I was tending to veer away from the 100 quid anyroad but the download is now a deffo and as you say Bob the packaging never gets looked at again after the first ravishing. The last bumper Brucie one being a case in point. Not even sure where to lay me hands on it

Si - you're right. I've never been a bootleg enthusiast - I did venture down that path with Brucie years ago but it very quickly became a case of diminishing returns for me.

I downloaded One Too many mornings this morning as a little taster. lovely to hear Richard on the opening verse and had a nice chuckle where he forgot the words.

Fred - it ain't funny man - the pain's too raw :-0)


Entered at Wed Nov 26 06:17:48 CET 2014 from (67.84.76.58)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

We've all seen that paragraph before. Levon doesn't deny being involved in the writing.And saying what he said, does not preclude participation. Fact is, he'd have said pretty much the same thing at any time. His argument was other. No need to hash this all over again. But Levon never would have claimed to be a songwriter per se in thew traditional sense. But going back to what he said here, all of you should recognize his typical restraint, his natural way of usually giving other people more credit than he'd take, regardless. Anyone who's seen Tv interviews he did, would recognize his m.o.. To a good degree, he was very often like this in real life. So was Rick. Songwriter, sure Levon was probably the least active in the traditional sense. But again, his argument was other. Goodnight.


Entered at Wed Nov 26 01:56:45 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Harry Smith was also (among many things) an avant garde filmmaker. The Getty Museum in LA houses his collection.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 23:30:55 CET 2014 from (136.167.102.184)

Posted by:

Dave H

There's a bit about the eccentric Harry Smith in Patti Smith's memoir Just Kids. She and Robert Mapplethorpe were tenants of the Chelsea while Smith was living there.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 22:49:20 CET 2014 from (184.66.163.29)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Do you, Mr.....?

Bill M: He would have moved 'up' the list, wouldn't he?


Entered at Tue Nov 25 22:28:40 CET 2014 from (131.137.35.74)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: Miss Twomennie Meels

Bill M: Pretty damn thin, I'd say.

But he knew 'zackly what was happening . . . .


Entered at Tue Nov 25 22:21:43 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: something's happening here, but you don't know what it is, right?

sadavid: Me again. Do you know if Harry was a thin man? It occurred to me that Dylan many have considered 'Smith' just a tad too obvious so moved down the list to the next surname. Just a thought.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 22:09:17 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

sadavid: Thanks for that link - and thanks again for the tree wit roots discs, which tided me over nicely as I waited for la vrai chose to come along.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 21:38:59 CET 2014 from (131.137.35.74)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: Old Weird Harry

Bill M: Mr. Smith didn't just live at the Chelsea, he died there . . . .

See [My link] for Greil Marcus's liner notes to the _Anthology_, which seems to be the key to the highway as far as a number of _his_ obsessions.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 21:04:47 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

JT: The topic of who's the better songwriter came up in a page of Sylvie Simmonds' excellent biography of Leonard Cohen (excellent, but I've been reading it on and off since last Christmas). Someone's talking about Bob writing songs in 15 minutes and Leonard taking months and years (eight of the latter in the case of "Hallelujah"); he does express a favourite, but would probably sign on to your view of things.

By way of the same book I learned just a few weeks ago that the Harry Smith that put together the all-influential compilation of American folk, blues and roots music that Greil Marcus built "Old Weird America" around wasn't some old guy from the 1920s or whenever, which is for some reason what I'd pictured, but someone who inhabited the Chelsea Hotel in NYC and partied with Cohen and Nico et al in the late '60s. Somewhere around the time when Mary Martin was paying Garth Hudson to transcribe Cohen's songs in his own NYC hotel room.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 19:58:34 CET 2014 from (92.18.210.77)

Posted by:

Solomon

Subject: Documentary about Lost on the River

Just for a split second I thought that was Garth in the basement! I was a bit disappointed to see it was just a few people who looked a bit like Dylan and The Band.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 19:45:20 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

I think you'll all enjoy seeing the Making of the other BT. RG comes off as the least prepared going in--maybe tied with MM--and the process by which Spanish Mary forms is fascinating. And there are those recreations of the real BT at Big Pink...


Entered at Tue Nov 25 19:29:48 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Ah, I see the paragraph that caught your eye. I have the feeling I saw this quote from Levon before. It was 1983 in the duo Danko & Helm acoustic tour which at least three people have told me were among the best shows they ever saw by anyone. Wish I'd seen one. This was just before the reunion tour, and before a certain person declined to join it. It's clear the tone changed after that, then even more in 1992 and in his book. But this is what he thought in 1983 before the resentment began to simmer.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 18:45:50 CET 2014 from (75.85.25.164)

Posted by:

Sebastian

Web: My link

Subject: Levon talks mandolins and songwriting

Interesting.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 18:39:38 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Spanish Mary

I read PSB's review nodding in agreement all the way. My instant favorites were Spanish Mary and Duncan and Jimmy, both sung by Rhiannon Giddons. Spanish Mary is linked above. I like the way they all play as a band, and Taylor Goldsmith's bass on this track is particularly well thought out.

It's like a lot of these projects, especially the Leonard Cohen covers albums - women come out well. I'm sure this is because we stop thinking "Oh, that's Elvis Costello trying to be Bob. But what would Bob have done?" Whereas with women singers, you don't make the same comparison - which is why Barb Jungr does so well with Dylan covers.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 18:23:42 CET 2014 from (72.78.37.180)

Posted by:

PSB

Location: City of Brotherly Love
Web: My link

Subject: Lost On The River

Thanks for your comment JT, so the link is to to my take on that other Basement project.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 18:00:04 CET 2014 from (86.159.183.162)

Posted by:

Simon

Web: My link

Bob Dylan talks Basement Tapes


Entered at Tue Nov 25 15:39:00 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Sound advice, to go for the download. There's a load of information on line. Slip it into iTunes, then burn 6 CDs. I did that with the downloads of Jon Boden's "A Folk Song A Day" because though allegedly downloads sit in the cloud, I'd rather have a physical thing I can play away from computers or tablets.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 15:35:01 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Bob, yes, we are in the area of the value of different pieces of music. Looks like it's moving that way, that it'll be based on the artist, not on the number of CDs or the number of minutes.

Personally, I'd value The Band much more highly than the Allmans, but then no one asked me. However, as I mentioned once, while you'll see 4 to 6 Band CDs in any decent independent British record store., you'll be lucky to see any by the Allmans. On the basis of pricing by demand, in the UK at least, The Band are objectively worth more than The Allman Brothers. It is probably different in Atlanta. But on that "demand" basis, Miley Cyrus is worth more than either … but they are targeting the "grey pound" or "grey dollar" or in my case the "bald pound" with archival releases. And British politicians of all stripes keep getting on the radio and telling us that the Baby Boomer generation have got all the money.

The Allmans are a good example, like The Kinks, of differential pricing.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 15:23:23 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Just To Clarify

The 240Z Datsun was $4200.00 NOT $7200.00. What's three grand amongst friends. 😀


Entered at Tue Nov 25 15:17:36 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: PSB: reviews 'Lost On The River" in Counterpunch

Peter Stone Brown: Thanks for your review of "Lost On The River" in Counterpunch .


Entered at Tue Nov 25 15:15:25 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Location: Tronno

The full BTs is exactly what I'd take to a desert island to listen to (assuming electricity and a player) - not that there's anything wrong with the sound of waves breaking on the shore. The BTs, unlike so many other favourites, provides more to think about while listening. Not so musically challenging as my usual desert discs - "Songs for a Tailor" and "America Eats it Young" but still highly worthwhile. Speaking of AEiY, it turns out that George Clinton and I see eye to eye on its excellence; I thumbed through his new autobiography and spotted him calling it "one of the best stews we ever made" (or similar words).

A couple books over in the music section of the bookstore was Bruce Cockburn's memoir, "Rumours of Glory". When he gets to the part about being hired as the guitar player for Flying Circus in Toronto circa '67, he notes that organist Marty Fisher was a Garth Hudson fanatic. He doesn't mention that Marty - as a member of Robbie Lane and the Disciples - in fact replaced Garth has Hawkins' keyboardist. Nor does he seem to know, or remember, that the reason why he and they got to go to Motown was that prior to Cockburn's arrival they were known as the Mynah Birds and had a different vocalist - Rick James.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 14:11:36 CET 2014 from (129.42.208.184)

Posted by:

Bob F

Location: HV

Subject: THe Band and Allman Brothers live 1971 Box sets

Peter V, talking about the different prices on archival releases, I find this one interesting. The Allman Brothers Live At The Fillmore box is priced about 20 dollars less then The Band Live At The Academy Music set. With The Allman Brothers box you get 6 cd's. The Band you get 4 cd's and the dvd. Both sets recorded in NYC in 1971. Both masterpieces. Different prices.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 14:01:39 CET 2014 from (129.42.208.184)

Posted by:

Bob F

Location: HV

Subject: Al and The BT's

Al, the music is essential, the packaging is not. Go with the download of the full set, take the money your saving and download a couple of the Springsteen concerts that are now available!


Entered at Tue Nov 25 13:32:07 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Datsun 240Z

Funnily enough, I saw one in a Classic Showroom the other day and couldn't believe the price … around £25000, or $44,000 Canadian. I looked online just now and they run from £7000 to £35000 for a fully-restored 1970 model.

It's a "I wish I'd kept it moment." The only time I ever made a profit on any car was a Spitfire Mk IV. I bought it for £750 a year old during the 1973 petrol crisis when no one wanted a sports car. 11 months earlier, the owner had paid £1350 for it. I drove it for two years, and a friend offered me £1250 for it. I took it. They now go for £4000 to £11,000 in decent condition. Mind you, storring it for 40 years would have been a pain, and it was never comfortable and a bit like the song "Beep Beep" - it looked the part, but you found modest basic saloons passing you with ease.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 13:23:03 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Be careful of ordering from North America, Simon. You can do it three times and it's fine, then the fourth the postman turns up with a note and you end up going to the post-office, paying the 20% VAT then to add insult to injury you have to pay a "Customs Clearance Charge" which is the payment the post office, or courier company, charge for getting the VAT from you and giving it to Customs. Last time I did this, it was £22 clearance charge.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 12:52:25 CET 2014 from (86.159.183.162)

Posted by:

Simon

Reading Al's post more closely I assume that he hasn't actually heard any of the boots and that his experience of the Basement Tapes is exclusively the 1975 release. Nothing wrong with that either. So I'd say he has an absolute treat in store regardless of whether he goes the download or physical route.

Al, I couldn't stress enough how much pleasure I think you'd get from tracks like Roisin The Beau, Sign On the Cross, I'm A Fool For You (awesome, and if it were properly finished would be one of his most commercial tracks), Johnny Todd (despite the cultural baggage that come with that one), Silent Weekend, One Man's Loss ... literally dozens of great songs. Too many to list.

John D- Thanks. I might order it from Amazon Germany/US/Canada. My main concern when it first came out was that it was said to be limited ... I did have a 'yelling at clouds' moment at the time but as long as I don't wait too long I should be able to get it.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 12:37:18 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Currency Converter

I'm embarrassed to say I had to go to a currency converter this morning as the Brits on this page talk about the Dylan pkg. in pounds of course. Simon would be happy to pay 70 pounds. That would be 124 dollars and change here in Canada. Well Simon I guess we're on the same page. I paid $125.00 plus tax last week. I understand it sells for less in the U.S.

I think the whole price thing goes with your situation at the time and of course your age. Unless your a wealthy old codger. I remember in 1970 I purchased one of the first 6 240Z Datsun's to come to Canada. I just fell in love with it. $7200.00 tax in. My friends thought I had gone bonkers. They were more than happy with there $2500.00 (?) MGB's. I guess in the end it's all relative.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 11:47:28 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

My thoughts were on my "Best of 2014" lists. It occurs that you could get my entire Top Ten CDs for £100. To be iconoclastic, I would say I have had and will get more pleasure from those 10 than I will from the Complete BTs. As a Band & Dylan completist, I had to have it, it's a great improvement on "A Tree With Roots" and the new stuff is fascinating.

But if you were to say "Go off to a desert island. You can take CDs to the value of £105, but they must be issued in 2014, my shopping basket would have Natalie Merchant, The Phoenix & The Turtle by Beverley Martyn, Strangers by Simone Felice, Popular Problems by Leonard Cohen, Revival by Bellowhead, Word of Mouth by Seth Lakeman, Croz by David Crosby, Puss 'n' Boots as the first £80 (I'm still thinking about the other), it's a no brainer. I'd take the new stuff ahead of the Basement Tapes.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 11:42:54 CET 2014 from (203.160.29.153)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: Al's money

My advice is: better to give your hard-earned cash to LFC so they can buy someone who can defend & pay for lessons at a football academy for your forwards so they can re-learn how to score goals.

: ) ...... or perhaps : ( is in order.

I'm sure the price of the 6 CD set will slowly come down after Christmas.....if you can wait that long! : )


Entered at Tue Nov 25 09:54:34 CET 2014 from (86.159.183.162)

Posted by:

Simon

Al, it's up to you but there's essential stuff on the 6CD that isn't on the 2CD ... maybe the download would be the way to go. I want the actual thing but will have to wait a bit. I'm probably going to sell some CDs and LPs to put towards the cost. Despite what Pat rightly says about the considerable effort that's gone into the set £100 is still too much. Fifty for the six discs (as one's a 'bonus' disc in fairly poor audio quality) plus twenty for the book and packaging. It should be no more than £70 in my opinion.

On the other hand Amazon UK is listing Dylan's Complete Albums Collection (the one in the red box) for £105. 42 titles across 47 discs. So it's swings and roundabouts. There are some great bargains to be had, too.

I'm going to ask Santa for the Complete BT.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 08:25:38 CET 2014 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Advice

Okay, been a mite swamped this past few months - there's clearly also been the awful despondency bordering on jumping in the Mersey as a result of LFC's relentless and seemingly inevitable collapse which like any passionate lifelong Red has rendered me a shell of my usual self.

So for the BT do I just get the download or go the whole hog with the 100 quid?

I'm sure like most on here the tracks on the original have always been such a joy for me and always feature on any compilation stuff I do but a 100 quid right now is a lot to me and it does seem a bit unjustifiable unless there's summat I'm missing?

Bear in mind as most will have probably gathered from me over the years I'm by no means any hi-fi freak. My finest ever musical listening were my original multi scratched battered vinyl LP's of Big Pink and The Brown on the old Dansette. So exultations regarding musical quality mean fuck all to me as it's all about the tune, arrangement and lyrics with me.

YF

Al 'philistine' Edge

:-0)


Entered at Tue Nov 25 07:03:45 CET 2014 from (219.89.244.239)

Posted by:

Rod

One Too Many Mornings - one of my favourite Dylan songs at the moment. Pity about all the comments on the Youtube page though.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 05:43:43 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Coincidentally, another great hockey coach, Viktor Tikhonov, died today. Tikhonov won any number of world championships, but he's best known in America as the USSR coach who lost the Miracle On Ice 1980 Olympics to the US "students".


Entered at Tue Nov 25 03:03:46 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Oh and.........The Mighty Quinn

If a hockey fan or not, we lost a true legend today when Pat Quinn died. Mr Quinn left his mark on hockey from one side of this continent to the other.

We were fortunate enough to appreciate and enjoy having him in Vancouver for many years. His achievement of coaching Canada to a gold medal in Salt Lake City in 2002 is a video I never get tired of watching.

We'll always miss you Pat.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 02:01:06 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Oxymoron

Jerry......people are people.....you confirmed that a few posts back.


Entered at Tue Nov 25 00:29:46 CET 2014 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: 24 hours

They are indeed like 'night and day'. That is where is should have stopped.


Entered at Mon Nov 24 23:45:15 CET 2014 from (79.160.47.202)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

This one, with Rick singing lead on the last thing they recorded as The Band, I always get back to this one. And then Levon's heroism on "Don't Wait", literally singing about a life well spent on his way to the radiation treatments that would bring him back into the spoltlight a few years later.


Entered at Mon Nov 24 23:19:27 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: The Bob & Joni Show

It's not new - she was saying much the same in 2010. See link:

JONI: "We are like night and day, he and I," she scoffed. "Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception."

In 2013 she said it was all because the 2010 interviewer was an arsehole, and added:

JONI: “I like a lot of Bob’s songs, though musically he’s not very gifted. He’s borrowed his voice from old hillbillies. He’s got a lot of borrowed things. He’s not a great guitar player. He’s invented a character to deliver his songs. Sometimes I wish that I could have that character — because you can do things with that character. It’s a mask of sorts.”



Entered at Mon Nov 24 23:12:00 CET 2014 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Who cares?

No doubt, Peter. The thing is, I care. Not because of any slight to Bob but because it reflects badly on the speaker. It is 'unbecoming' for her. I'm a big believer in leaving dirty laundry in the hamper.


Entered at Mon Nov 24 21:23:12 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The thing is, I shouldn't think Bob has noticed, or if he has, cares.


Entered at Mon Nov 24 20:31:52 CET 2014 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Biting controversy

Biting the hand that feeds you...Never a good idea. Stirring up controversy...sells. Do they cancel each other out? A bit cynical.

One comment is worthwhile. Dylan set the stage for the rise of the singer songwriter in the early 60s. Though they did exist, they were getting by until Robert Zimmerman changed his name and set that scene on fire. And so up came the rest with their own individual creative ability. Worth remembering when you sell retrospective 4 cd sets.


Entered at Mon Nov 24 18:44:57 CET 2014 from (31.53.168.198)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Price of BT

I went looking for the BT today. The last record shop in my town, which is joined onto Glasgow, said that they decided not to get it in because of the price. They did not want to be left with it. People could buy it in Glasgow. They had the two disc version and I bought 'Lost on the River' there over a week ago.

In Fopp I could not get it either because the release date has beeen put back until next week because of issues over price. It will be sold in Fopp for round about £100.

I always try to support the physical shops and taxation policy at amazon has disappointed me,


Entered at Mon Nov 24 18:25:33 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.91)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Brown On Bob

Peter Stone Brown attended all 3 Dylan shows in Philly. I suggest reading his reviews of all, in order, first to last.


Entered at Mon Nov 24 18:21:55 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Joni

I quoted the Sunday Times interview early. She's giving interviews to promote her box set, and apparently feeling bitter and negative about the music … er "business" … in general. It mentions that she has neither internet connection nor mobile phone … not "Smartphone" but any kind of cell phone. I guess they should never have paved paradise. It causes resentment. Bob Dylan is the focus. It's a pretty daft debate, a bit "my dad's bigger than yours" at bottom.


Entered at Mon Nov 24 17:22:55 CET 2014 from (68.70.61.190)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: Joni vs Bob

Read a little article on Joni today and she does not have much if any nice things to say about Bob Dylan. Anyone out there know what went on between these 2?


Entered at Mon Nov 24 16:13:37 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Bill, exactly what a shop owner said to me … amazon are adopting an "airline seats" model with prices varying wildly - cheap to get rid of the initial seats, then rising as supply declines, then last-minute sell-at-any-price to get rid of the few left. What I didn't understand was the way they went from £105 (Monday) to £199 (Tuesday) because surely their "price guarantee" if the price falls between order and deliver would eliminate the price rise. It's £101.99 today.

But it is labels too, in the case of Sony and the BTs. not just amazon.


Entered at Mon Nov 24 16:03:33 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: up up and away ...

Peter V: Good idea to point out these sorts of price differentials. The BT breaks that pattern, but certainly isn't the first. Box-set pricing is all over the map, as is the extravagance of the packaging. What appears to be new about the big BT box is the dynamic nature of the pricing - more like the travel industry than the entertainment industry.


Entered at Mon Nov 24 15:06:55 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Simone Felice

Review of Simone Felice on Sunday night linked. Roger W was right … one of his best ever shows, perhaps even the best.


Entered at Mon Nov 24 10:18:46 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

You have me thinking about CD / album pricing whatever. In the theatre this year, a 3 person play with Bill Nighy and Carey Mulligan was £60 a ticket. Just down the road, "Shakespeare in Love" was playing with a cast of nearly thirty and a full band for about £40. So in the theatre there is differential pricing.

But in the cinema, Exodus will cost the same for a ticket as a tiny art film. That's what happens with CDs.

Do the Basement Tapes break that pattern?


Entered at Mon Nov 24 09:03:52 CET 2014 from (79.160.47.202)

Posted by:

jh

Subject: Testing

1...2...3


Entered at Sun Nov 23 22:47:02 CET 2014 from (108.217.93.87)

Posted by:

Glenn T

Subject: BT Complete

Basement Tapes Complete (audio disc) at Amazon is down to $92.49!


Entered at Sun Nov 23 21:37:33 CET 2014 from (75.34.52.104)

Posted by:

Adam

Hey Pat B, I agree with you. This BT set is beautiful, although from using Sid Griffin's updated book is a guide, is still not "completely" complete...

I just hope the reports are true and this release will jumpstart the Jan Haust/Peter Moore team for their LEVON & THE HAWKS box set. I just knew it couldn't have been abandoned.


Entered at Sun Nov 23 20:01:05 CET 2014 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Mea culpa

That's "know better". (not 'no better' though maybe there's something to that error).- careless - should proofread more carefully.

I'll stop now to read the pro and con responses (if there are any)


Entered at Sun Nov 23 19:53:03 CET 2014 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Original thinker

An original thinker - yes. A 'much more' original thinker - who can say? I'm also an original thinker. So are all of us. Our thoughts are (often) original and they belong to us. There is nothing new under the sun. Original thought is an extension of human experience. and ideation and links from one thought to the next. Still original nevertheless. How absurd a notion to compare!


Entered at Sun Nov 23 19:31:23 CET 2014 from (64.114.196.114)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: What, again?

Joni is 'different' than Bob. We keep wanting to compare artistic merit and other characteristics of a creative work. The work stands on its own!. In my view, this is a human failing. The street singer with his guitar case open has his/her own artistic merit. I never even think of how her original song compares to a Dylan or how his Neil Young cover compares to Neil Young. (I used to but then I realized the absurdity). Even performers seem to do it and maybe they should no better. Joni Mitchell is Joni Mitchell and she does what Joni Mitchell does. Its one thing for us to like or not like a performer or a song or a method of artistic creativity but its entirely another to compare one to another. Bob Dylan is a superb writer. Joni Mitchell is a superb writer. They work in a certain medium but their creative output is different. I admire both but would never seek to compare. Even kids at school writing an essay in an examination (do they still do that?) aren't asked who is 'better' (Compare and contrast the writing styles of Eugene O'Neill and Tennessee Williams). Our opinions count regarding personal preference and I would never challenge that. If one doesn't like a writing style of a lyricist then one can criticize it. To say, "It's not as good as ....." is a shallow and in my view meaningless statement.


Entered at Sun Nov 23 18:45:43 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Peter, no intention to demean the Kinks, but the sheer physical effort that went into the BT makes the price OK in my book. Heck, I probably paid $100 for the Complete LW.


Entered at Sun Nov 23 18:37:02 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The Kinks stuff has been remastered before of course, but this is still a major job. The ultra wide stereo remaster on Waterloo Sunset is quite a revelation, almost at “LOVE” levels. There are other surprises like the Waterloo Sunset backing track without vocals.

What is fascinating is how you can put a money value on a piece of music. As I said, the “Original Masters” series takes it as read that (say) 3 Bob Dylan CDs are “worth” the same as (say) 5 Manfred Mann CDs. The Basement Tapes suggest that Dylan CDs are worth more than twice as much as The Kinks or Joni Mitchell. This may indeed be true, but with CDs and LPs, we expect a standardized price, whether the album was the result of a year’s studio tan with a full symphony orchestra on some tracks, or whether it was dashed off in an afternoon by one person with a guitar. This is the way we generally price both books and records. There were always “budget” records of covers and cheap reissues. There were hardbacks and paperbacks, but there has been a price consensus, in fact however stellar the artist, we expect a current high-selling chart CD to be £9.99, but we expect to pay £12.99 or more for an obscure folk or blues album with lower circulation. Maybe that is and was illogical.

When you come to The Kinks, you’d have to rate Waterloo Sunset at the same high level as the best Bob Dylan songs. You Really Got Me has been quoted as the origin of both punk and of heavy metal. This is also important stuff. And as you can see from the article, Joni believes she's better than Bob.


Entered at Sun Nov 23 18:11:17 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

The work that went into creating the new BT was far beyond anything it took to remaster old Kinks tapes. How long did Jan Haust and his team labor over this project? I think the price reflects that.

For those who think it should have stayed in the basement, you're mistaken.


Entered at Sun Nov 23 16:11:44 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Strangers” is an essential album of 2014, agreed.

On the Basement Tapes and packaging, I see the resentment. Compare The Kinks Anthology 1964-1971. Just issued last week. 5 CDs. A bonus 7” single with previously unreleased live cuts. Lots of previously unheard stuff. A 42 page book enclosed with pictures and text. Similar concertina disc housing. Slip case. Sony Legacy. £39.99

Dylan, 6 CDs (though all admit #6 is poor quality). Slip case. Concertina packaging. 128 page hardback book enclosed. Sony Legacy. £100.

So I can see why many think they are paying £60 for an extra 80 pages of photos.

I can see that they had to release “everything they had” at this point, and I’m pleased I bought it. I would have liked a 7th CD of The Band stuff. Yes, I know it’s a Bob Dylan set, but it’s labelled “Bob Dylan & The Band.”

I think they could have released a “Complete” and a “De Luxe Complete.” The demand for the De Luxe Complete (which is what we have) is sufficient for it to have sold fast. The basic one could be 6 card sleeves in a CD sized slip case.

The “Original Albums Classics” series points the way. Most sets are 5 CD sets in card sleeves for £10 to £12 for the lot. But Dylan and Paul Simon are 3 CD sets for that price. They’re saying they’re worth almost double other artists.

Read the Joni Mitchell interview in today’s Sunday Times Culture. They asked her how she felt about being called the female Dylan. Joni replies:

JONI MITCHELL: “I am much more original musically and a much more original thinker.”

She adds, “I don’t like rock music. It’s militant and it’s white and it doesn’t have any joy in it.” and “Until my generation is dead, there’s not going to be any fair adjudication of this crap.” So, tomorrow Joni Mitchell has a new 4 CD career retrospective box set out, “Love Has Many Faces.” It’s £32.

However, don’t forget that The Kinks and the Joni Mitchell are mainly / essentially reissued material. A lot of the Basement Tapes is not.


Entered at Sun Nov 23 11:42:32 CET 2014 from (81.107.236.227)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Birmingham UK

Subject: Simone Felice - Strangers

Jon - Strangers is an excellent follow up to The Duke And The King. I much prefer his live performances however when his charisma and mannerisms affect the interpretation of the music. There are a couple of classics on Strangers - The Gallows / Running Through My Head / If You Go To LA (that's three already and I haven't finished! Certainly one of my albums of the year.


Entered at Sun Nov 23 04:22:19 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: For the Money.......Bob F

Bob, I'm of the same mind as you. I think all this grandeur is for the almighty buck. From what I've listened to on that 2 disc set, it's not hard to figure why a lot of that stuff stayed in the basement all these years. Some of it should still be there.

To many die hard fans that need to have anything Dylan ever did......well your welcome to it. If it had been enough to sell big, it would have sold long before now.

However, more and more there are very wonderful cuts that have stayed with us through out life that keep appearing in movies and tv show back ground music.

Just as I write this, I am watching a TV series "Hell on Wheels". The episode that finished a few minutes ago, ended on a sad scene while "I shall be released" played in the back ground. These classics fit so well into many story scenes on TV. I always enjoy hearing them in a spot where they seem to belong.

With all due respect to Bob Dylan and The Band, I expect there was a time in the learning process that there was much material that they wandered and worked their way through that they probably knew was not top calibre of what theye were capable of.


Entered at Sun Nov 23 01:42:13 CET 2014 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: pa

Subject: daughter

how is this for a good investment on your money. My daughter comes home from college. I am talking with her and I ask what her and her friends are listening to at college. She tells me that her and her friends favorite is the BAND. Now understand - she has zero interest in my music and has no idea I am a huge fan. She went away listining to Rap and Hip Hop. There is hope.


Entered at Sun Nov 23 00:12:45 CET 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F

Location: HV

Subject: Price of 6 cd Basement Tapes Set

I would have been happier with a simpler package and a better price. The articles were so so and I'm never going to go back and look at the photos. They could have released it like the original bootleg in a simple white sleeve for about half the price. Now that would have shown some class.


Entered at Sat Nov 22 22:17:15 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.83)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Just a lunch time tale

Three construction workers are on the seventy-fifth floor of a non-finished building. The Italian opens his lunch box to find a pizza and says "Man, if I get pizza one more time I am going to jump off this building and fall to my death!" The Chinese guy opens his lunch box to find rice and says "Man, if I get rice one more time I am going to jump off this building and fall to my death!" The blonde guy opens his lunch box to find a cheeseburger and says" Man, if I get a cheeseburger one more time im going to jump off this building and fall to my death!" So the next day they all got the same thing and they jumped off the building to their death. That weekend at the funeral, the Italian and the Chinese wives are crying and saying "I would have fixed him something else for lunch but he never told me." And as the two wives stare at the blondes wife, they both ask why she isn't sad about her husbands death, the blonde replies "Don't look at me, he packs his own lunch."


Entered at Sat Nov 22 21:46:59 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Lost On The River

Got this today (suspect it was sold a couple of days early). So far the standout track is "Spanish Mary" by Rhiannon Giddens, because it actually sounds like Bob wrote the music.


Entered at Sat Nov 22 21:24:36 CET 2014 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Disc 3-Crash on The Levee(take 1,& 2 too)/And Lots of Music

The interplay of the vocals and bass,the bass and organ,the vocals and organ and of all three together are incredible.This leads to Ricks bass masterpiece on Lo and Behold. I keep circling around the 6 cd's replaying them....well,lets just say playing them ALOT! At the same time I just got the Dylan and Grateful Dead rehearsal cd's and the Garcia Does Dylan cd's.And,as I'm typing this my wife walks in with today's mail: a cd of Dylan live in Tampa ,9/30/95 with special guest Dickey Betts sitting in (a personal favorite of mine!). And,sill have the last Allmans performance to hear again and a Clapton DVD from a live performance last year.A wealth of music!


Entered at Sat Nov 22 17:56:31 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

On the list of available vids, both the trailer and "Behind the Scenes" have snippets of the Showtime BT recreations at Big Pink.


Entered at Sat Nov 22 16:32:17 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Rod

Rod, I have brought up the price of the 6 CD pkg. a couple of times. Semi-Retirement will do that to someone. However my wife knew how much I wanted it and I have now bought it. $141.00 tax in. Now that I have it I understand the price. I have never seen such elaborate and I'm sure expensive packaging before. Along with the beautiful CD packaging is a beautiful book of Landy photos. Granted I will probably only check out the book a few times; but the CD packaging is a work of art. Too long to explain. Perhaps Peter Viney could elaborate.


Entered at Sat Nov 22 12:41:50 CET 2014 from (219.89.244.239)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: The Basement Tapes

Bought the 2 disc BTs today. Amazing - full credit to Garth & co. Would have liked to get the 6 disk version but at $167 it didn't quite stack up against $25 for e 2 disks. Not quite sure why there is such a big difference in price. maybe the book is more elaborate?


Entered at Sat Nov 22 08:27:29 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Simone Felice

MANY THANKS, Roger. I'd missed the tour entirely. Hadn't seen anything about it. I just looked. Winchester is tomorrow night, and I've just bought my ticket. One I would have hated to miss.


Entered at Sat Nov 22 05:01:10 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

So tonight on Showtime in the US, a film premiered about the making of the New Basement Tapes--the T-Bone Burnett project with Elvis Costello, Jim James, Marcus Mumford etc. A big surprise: reenactments of Dylan with Richard, Rick, RR, and Garth recording in the basement. Actors that kinda sorta looked like the boys--in the real basement of the real Big Pink. They gave Garth the wrong organ and a late model clavinet, but all in all it was pretty cool.


Entered at Sat Nov 22 03:02:56 CET 2014 from (24.199.71.83)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

Subject: Re: Simone Felice

Thanks for the review, Roger. I'm jealous... I've missed his last two tours through NYC. How is the new(ish) Strangers album?


Entered at Sat Nov 22 01:15:48 CET 2014 from (81.107.236.227)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Birmingham UK

Subject: Simone Felice

We saw Simone Felice tonight at an excellent and intimate venue in Birmingham. He was accompanied by Anna Mitchell on Keyboard and Harmonium. This was the best concert I've seen him perform - which is good going because the previous concerts I've seen have been outstanding. There were three bonuses tonight - 1) he played most of The Duke and The King, 2) one encore included a terrific version oh Neil Young's Helpless and 3) he paid homage to The Band at some length before singing his customary version of I Shall Be Released. He dedicated this to Rick, Richard and Levon but spoke movingly about growing up in the Catskills listening to The Band. I don't know where his tour takes him this time but catch this one if you can.


Entered at Fri Nov 21 21:56:28 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Beaujolais Nouveau

Iilka wondered where the wine reviews had gone! Linked.


Entered at Fri Nov 21 20:55:12 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest
Web: My link

Subject: good old days of "The Dead" - Let the good times roll

Really miss some of this stuff, god rest Jerry.


Entered at Fri Nov 21 03:40:34 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.142)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: What was down is now up. In the olden days vanity labels were the refuge of the no-hopers, but now they're the preserve of the artistes.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 23:28:56 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

The Turner legacy has been treated appallingly, and I suspect Turing's eventual "pardon" was because the film was imminent. Both films are a "must see".

It's a good time of the year - these next two or three months see all the Oscar / BAFTA contenders being released.

Now that the conglomerates own so many labels, it's fascinating to see the artist choices. The new David Bowie single utilizes a mid-50s 78 rpm sleeve and is on Parlophone. The Thompson Family have looked at the array of Universal labels, and taken a liking for Fantasy (cue CCR). The Kinks Anthology 1964-1971 box set is on Sanctuary-BMG - Legacy-Sony. Anyone (important) can have the label of their dreams. Van Morrison's had Blue Note. Vangelis has had Deutsche Grammophon. Morrisey has gone for HMV. It's like a swatch of labels. You choose.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 23:05:52 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Turner, Edinburgh - London and Turing

Yes, it was some years ago but we did go to see the Turner "bequest" in Edinburgh. One of the stipulations of the bequest" is that they only be put on public display in January, when the light is at lowest and less likely to fade the water colours.

At least they keep to the donor's wishes, unlike the way the various London art establishments have treated Turner's own bequest to the nation. In short, he left them to be housed in a specially built gallery so the works could be displayed together in one place. Lacking agreement on a site, an Act of parliament was passed allowing his works to be scattered hither and thither. It was over 100 years later that a wing of the (old) Tate was built to house them but some still remain in the National Gallery to this day.

How did we treat Turner in death? How did we treat Turing in life?


Entered at Thu Nov 20 22:51:56 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: The ART of McCartney

Picked this up today - notable covers, such as Bob Dylan on "Things We Said Today" and Brian Wilson on "Wanderlust." See Link for Bob doing The Beatles - only 30 seconds unfortunately. you'll have to buy it.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 22:19:50 CET 2014 from (67.84.76.57)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat:Fuczuch


Entered at Thu Nov 20 19:36:59 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

THIS Mr Turner, Bill. Linked.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 19:33:12 CET 2014 from (74.108.29.164)

Posted by:

Joan

Subject: Jimmy Ruffin

Thanks for the link Simon. Great song. great voice, RIP


Entered at Thu Nov 20 19:31:12 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

In the Albini article, the one thing that made me laugh was the description of the late John Peel as a “genius.” That went with the “purple dwarf” comment to make me doubt him. John Peel introduced vast numbers of new bands to the public ear, because he was totally undiscriminating. If it was young and new and different and weird he’d play it. If it started to sell and people appeared to like it, he stopped. Some unusual stuff got exposed, which was good, but an awful lot of what he played was dire. I never thought he could tell the difference.

John Peel’s own Dandelion label was a case in point, and his co-director Clive Selwood had a lot to say in candid interviews. This is from my long section on Dandelion in my current work in progress:

Peel and Selwood cheerfully admit they rejected Mike Oldfield’s Tubular Bells, and failed to sign Roxy Music when offered. They set out to make collectable records and did so. The words interesting and eclectic cover a multitude of sins, and the output is as bemusing as it is brave. Those who could play … Kevin Coyne, David Bedford, Clifford T. Ward, Bridget St. John … are counter-balanced by the downright incompetent (Stack Waddy) or ludicrously pretentious (Principal Edwards Magic Theatre). Stack Waddy, like so many bands Peel espoused over the years were proto-punk amateurs. When Jim Morrison (Elektra) allegedly pointed Percy at the public, it was said to be a revolutionary act of priapic defiance. When Stack Waddy (Dandelion) did the same at a showpiece gig for Warner Bros executives, it was a case of drunken louts needing to piss on stage. In Morrison’s case, people in the front row didn’t see him do it, the band didn’t see him do it. The only people who saw him were police officers at a distance. In Stack Waddy’s case everyone saw them do it.

Principal Edwards wafted around the stage trailing coloured scarves while people made birds sounds, and did sub-Marcel Marceau mimes to the accompaniment of a distorted guitar. The howls of derision from audiences were only muted because they had some good-looking hippie chicks doing the wafting about. They were the worst band of the era I ever saw.

They also signed the Yamasukis. Selwood said:

Neither John nor I cared for the record … I don’t think anybody ever played it on the radio, not even John.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 18:30:17 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: memo re Turner

Ian W: So it's that Turner! (I'd come to the conclusion that it wasn't Mick Jagger's Turner, nor Ike, but beyond that wasn't at all sure, not having read Peter V's review - sorry PV.) Yes, his use of light was exceptional. I remember heading up to Edinburgh at a particular time in the winter when the natural lighting was such that the NatGal of Scotland would show some of his more fragile work for a day or two.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 18:20:10 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: "Mr Turner" again

Peter's review of "Mr Turner" is fair and balanced. He mentioned the cinematography which I did not.

Turner had this amazing perception of light and its effects and he had the ability to translate his vision on to canvas and paper, The cinematography sets out to convey his vision and succeeds so well that, at times the screen is visually mesmerising - luminous, almost overwhelmingly lustrous and luscious. You just have to sit there and let it all wallow over you. Seeing some of those effects on a big screen, even larger in size than the original paintings, is really quite something.

We saw “Mr Turner” on a Sunday morning at the Curzon in Mayfair, London (which is quite a posh cinema but the Sunday morning screenings are usually a bit cheaper than other showings) and I don't know if it was the cinema equipment or the technical quality of the film (or whatever) itself but the visuals were rendered brilliantly.

The film strings together known episodes in Turner's later life interspersed with the aforementioned visual effects to create an impression of the man and his work. Mrs W said afterwards that she would probably never look at a Turner painting in quite the same way again - likes his work but didn't much like the man.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 17:04:53 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Steve Albini is only good for working with noise bands? What an asinine statement. And thanks for letting everyone know that studio owners can be either nice or naughty. Great insight.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 16:45:02 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.192)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Quick point as i run out the door. anyone going into any studio to record, is wise to have engineers and studio owners sign defintive work for hire agreements. If they've hired a producer, of course there is an agreement too.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 15:54:17 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.192)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

So Pete, after having read up on it, your second comment on the topic, shows that your instinctive gut reaction was correct.

Some pertinent info that came up, but doesn't necessarily have a lot to do with the main thrust of that discussion. Just to sort out a lot of stuff that everyone mostly knows. Engineers and producers obviously are not the same thing. Engineers can produce also. Someone can certainly be both. Often are. And separately, even when hired strictly as engineers,ever so lightly,gently and diplomatically, the best engineers offer some advice that really falls in the production range. Also, engineers don't necessarily have studios and or much equipment. They might.And neither necessarily do producers. Again, though they might.. Anyone who produces or engineers is bound to accumulate equipment, but again, these guys may work out of studios and / or be more guns for hire.

Studio owners fall in a whole nother realm, of course odds of a studio owner being a engineer and producer are pretty damn good. Studio owners also fall in a whole nother realm of personality too. Most, not all, studio owners have that master of the universe syndrome. I've known some quite nice studio owners.

While we agree on this subject essentially straight down the line, i'll point out one in particular- the noise aspect. Allmusic's server wasn't popping up for me yesterday, server error, but, in the past, i never noticed anything the man worked on that appeals to my taste in music or categorization of music. Noise. Sure. Like you wrote. He falls in a niche. That article i mentioned that I read some years back, , the one Greg Norman wrote, pretty much indicated that Albini was great to record that kind of band, and Norman also indicated the sonics and style of sound you;d get too, but indicated if you wanted to use the studio for other kind of work, hire him to engineer instead, or bring your own.

Essentially, as you are aware & pointed out, there is a heavy dose of self interest tied to Albini's approach to royalties and copyright. Which is part of why i wrote there is something lacking inside this man. To attach yourself to a artistic field, find a way to be or portray yourself as a kind of artist (that to me makes as much musical sense, maybe less, than rap), and a way to make a good living as a engineer and producer for a fee, then to participate in, endorse, or promote the destruction of the way that real artists and writers make a living, well, there is something very wrong and narcissistic in the last part. Like you wrote, his feelings won't be hurt by anyone who feels this way. Gotta run. I'll comment more on engineers, producers, and studio owners later.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 10:24:50 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I commented without knowing much, not for the first time in my life. Or even nothing. I took strong exception to Mr Albini calling Prince “a purple dwarf” whose music was “poison” and if those are the terms he uses, he’s hardly going to be offended easily. I read up on Wiki. He clearly has a strong business ethic and high reputation. On the other hand the only record mentioned in his list that I have is “In Utero.” When I see those lists of the however-many greatest albums of all time, I gaze at “In Utero” and “Never Mind The Bollocks” and try to calculate what aesthetic allows them to be mentioned in the same context or breath as Blonde on Blonde, Revolver, Music From Big Pink, Otis Blue, The Rocking Chair Album, Surf’s Up … or indeed Squiggle’s 1999 or Purple Rain. I can’t see it. The Nirvana and Sex Pistols albums are to my ears, mindless noise. There’s nothing I saw on his list that I would rate even remotely with Little Red Corvette or Holy City.

I do see Mr Albini’s point on fees. He’s right in 2014 – and everyone’s right, because 5% of nothing is indeed nothing. Just as 10% of £12 the publisher received, is £1.20 as a recent royalty cheque informs me. It’s not worth the trip to the bank to pay it in. I’ve moved much more to fees this year myself, and had a discussion this week where someone wondered why I wanted a fee for stuff I used to do free. That’s because when I did it free, we then sold tens of thousands of copies and the royalties were good. Now we sell a couple of hundred. Allegedly.

I can also see that given recording 20 grunge bands for a fee (and a very fair fee in Mr Albini’s case), or taking points, going for the fee x 20 makes sense. It is a very different situation. An engineer, however stellar, works a number of hours and in his case supplies equipment and space as well as expertise. His services are in constant demand, so there will be turkey and trimmings and a bottle of good wine on the table next Thursday.

It doesn’t work like that for a songwriter at all. A songwriter can’t assume that (say) every song he or she writes will be recorded at (say) a fee of $500 a time. No one wants to pay it. Royalties or points is their only choice, unless they were (say) writing for a movie score or commercial where again, a fee might make sense.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 09:27:01 CET 2014 from (109.148.250.71)

Posted by:

Simon

Web: My link

RIP Jimmy Ruffin


Entered at Thu Nov 20 03:59:21 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.173)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Not for free- for a fee, without points. As the original discussion. Typing "for free" was an error. Typing in a hurry.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 03:58:51 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.173)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Not for free- for a fee, without points. As the original discussion. Typing "for free" was an error.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 02:59:13 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.173)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: My post Dec 17th 2013

A trip to the link i placed on the GB almost a year ago, will produce article discussing and displaying letter that Albini wrote to Nirvana offering to produce the album that became In Utero for free.

Spin all you want Pat, the truth don't go away.

Entered at Tue Dec 17 06:46:56 CET 2013 from (67.84.77.201) Posted by: Jeff A. Web: My link Subject: Albini to Nirvana Have you guys seen this? Linked above.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 02:48:52 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.173)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat, the In Utero letter been in circulation a very long time. Anyone who read my post can clearly see what i wrote is completely other than what you present. You are the guy telling tales, always have been. BTW, go fuck yourself.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 02:41:58 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

btw, Jeff, everyone who works at EA is great, but I've only worked with Steve in the big room.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 02:38:54 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Like I said, typical histrionics. Your little "5% of nothing" doesn't quite apply to Albini, does it? You get caught telling a tale and what's the defense? I'm spinning reality because I disagree with you? What a laugh.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 02:03:44 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.173)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pete, it's Greg Norman. Albini's studio, Electrical Audio, is probably one of the superior rooms. The rates are great. Tape, buy your own, and save a few bucks., But in general great rates, and i'd bet the rooms gotta be killer, and the equipment probably in perfect condition.. If you don't want Albini to engineer, bring your own, hire Norman as the house/assistant engineer cause he knows the room, etc etc.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 01:59:45 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.173)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Pat, anyone who has the ability to read, and comprehend what he or she reads, has no alternative but to realize you are always going to be a spinning misery of a poster in regard to anyone who you have ever disagreed with. Your first post responding to mine had no reality in connection to what I wrote, and neither does this last response. I gave Albini credit for what he did when it was rare, and pointed out that it is now not rare for producers and why, and why. You, i can only credit for being deceitful and untruthful in the manner in which you interact with people with whom you've ever disagreed or continue to disagree .


Entered at Thu Nov 20 01:42:13 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Sure, Jeff. He turned down producer points on Nirvana's "In Utero" which has sold 15 million copies worldwide. What does that work out to in your calculations?


Entered at Thu Nov 20 01:19:51 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.173)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Peter, Some time ago i read a lengthy and interesting piece by Albini's right hand man. He's worked for Albini for a very long time, built some studios, once left, and returned to work for Albini. Another engineer. I don't recall his name and haven't looked for the piece. But the guy discussed recording styles. Essentially he said that Albini works one way, and described the sound you'd get. He definitely indicated that he himself is more suited to someone who has a different sound in mind.

Amongst other things, Albini is known for analogue tape, and having a great studio. he does have a good , even superior reputation many ways. As far producing goes, i think he is the guy who for a very long time now will charge a fee, and refuse a percentage. that's become pretty normal today though, because 3% or 5% of nothing is nothing. Everyone has a right to their own vision, own opinion. But, my opinion of his opinion, is that as stated in his address above, it sucks.


Entered at Thu Nov 20 00:34:13 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Steve is missing nothing. He has written tons of compelling, original music. He's a brilliant engineer and producer. He certainly has an iconoclastic way of looking at things, but thinking that a deft phrase or histrionic put down puts him in his place is completely silly.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 23:41:15 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

There are two sorts of people. Those who have created something original. Those who never have created anything original.

Albini is obviously in the latter category so will never understand. What does he do to earn a living? Try doing it for a while without getting paid.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 21:49:52 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.173)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Excerpt from Albini's address.

"From my part, I believe the very concept of exclusive intellectual property with respect to recorded music has come to a natural end, or something like an end. Technology has brought to a head a need to embrace the meaning of the word “release”, as in bird or fart. It is no longer possible to maintain control over digitised material and I don’t believe the public good is served by trying to.

There is great public good by letting creative material lapse into the public ownership. The copyright law has been modified so extensively in the past decades that now this essentially never happens, creating absurdities whenever copyright is invoked. There’s a huge body of work that is not legally in the public domain, though its rights holder, authors and creators have died or disappeared as businesses. And this material, from a legal standpoint now removed from our culture – nobody may copy it or re-release it because it’s still subject to copyright.

Other absurdities abound: innocuous usage of music in the background of home videos or student projects is technically an infringement and official obstacles are set up to prevent it. If you want a video of your wedding reception – your father’s first dance with a new bride – it’s off limits unless it is silent. If your little daughter does a kooky dance to a Prince song don’t bother putting it on YouTube for her grandparents to see or a purple dwarf in assless chaps will put an injunction on you. Did I offend the little guy? Fuck it. His music is poison.

Music has entered the environment as an atmospheric element, like the wind, and in that capacity should not be subject to control and compensation. Well, not unless the rights holders are willing to let me turn the tables on it. If you think my listening is worth something, OK then, so do I. Play a Phil Collins song while I’m grocery shopping? Pay me $20. Def Leppard? Make it $100. Miley Cyrus? They don’t print money big enough. "

The excerpt from Albini's address demonstrates alack of regard for intellectual property. How someone could have total disregard for what people's work means to them is beyond me. He may be a musician, a engineer, and a producer, but somewhere something inside this man is missing.

The grandparents he refers to, well, before You Tube there were other ways people viewed videos. There still are. Send the fucking video of the girl in the tutu dancing to a song, some other way. You Tube monetizes video, sure, an artist has a right to get paid if he or she can. You Tube is making money.

The example of music playing in a store is a poor one- the store does pay the right organizations for use of material. And should.

But, how can you think about denying copyright? Songwriters can spend ten years or ten minutes writing a song. Either way, a lifetime precedes it. Even the song that gets written in ten minutes, a lifetime leads up to it.It may suck, it may be genius. People go to great lengths to get great recordings, they may go to great expense. That song, and that sound recording- who the hell is he to say releasing a song should become like releasing a fart. Without being afforded protection and having the ability to enforce rights, there will be no great music made, will be no reason to make it. There is less and less reason to go to great effort all the time. and it is killing the quality of music. there is lots of great music that doesn't get heard, because there is no machinery, no economy. Was it perfect, hell no, but there was an economy.... there is no economy today....I don't care who the guy is, or what he's done, the ending ideas are callous, and seem to indicate a lack of soul, and understanding of true art and effort. Something personal is something personal. If you are a unique writer, noone else can write your song. It's yours. It should stay yours.

USing "digitised material" as the focus of the section - well, anything you create today become sdigitised easily. Record a record analogue, only release it on vinyl, what's to stop someoen form digitsing it. So, the world has become run digitally. That doesnlt mean it is right to be able to steal intellectual property because it is easy to! "Music has entered the environment as an atmospheric element, like the wind, and in that capacity should not be subject to control and compensation." The guy is off his rocker.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 21:34:39 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Mr Turner

So far in advance of the BAFTAS and Oscars … "Mr Turner" review linked. I though the first half hour the worse. And yes, it's too long, and yes, you need to know the bio.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 19:49:43 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Steve Albini is an absolute genius.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 17:19:13 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.173)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: Albini must be a very poor songwriter.

While i haven't time to discuss it now, Albini proved himself to be quite rude and dangerously wrong about major issues of importance. When i read part of that the other day, i was rather incensed.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 16:56:36 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Mr Turner

My wife thought "Mr Turner" too long, as well, though I enjoyed it thoroughly. It has no real narrative, no storyline as such, just episodes in Turner's life that cover his later years, show his character and the nature of his achievement. If I had a criticism of the film, I would say it is that it helps if, before seeing it, you know a bit about Turner's life already.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 15:17:51 CET 2014 from (131.137.35.74)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: Internet is the Salvation of Music

Steve Albini's keynote address to the "Face the Music" conference, Melbourne, 15 Nov 2014.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 14:05:31 CET 2014 from (176.12.107.140)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Birmingham UK

Subject: Film Fun

'PRIDE' - best film this year Bill for us. The Imitation Game we found excellent and it's inspired us to visit Bletchley Manor. Interstellar was unbelievably poor - given the hype this surprised me. Mr Turner should have been good. Timothy Spall is a favourite of ours but but as the two hour mark approached we were praying for an early death for Mr T. We saw The Drop recently. While the film is fairly predictable the cast were excellent. Tom Hardy is outstanding - as he was in the recent series of Peaky Blinders. Struggling here to justify this post with a Band connection. Failed.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 11:27:00 CET 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: International Men's Day

Today is International Men's Day. This gb has men's day (almost) every day.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 06:39:49 CET 2014 from (23.242.61.90)

Posted by:

Jim

Subject: The Basement Tapes Complete

With so many tracks on the BTC, I assumed that some would have Manuel swapping lead vocals or at least harmonizing on choruses. Does its book show more photos by Reid Miles? Thanks.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 05:32:47 CET 2014 from (68.199.208.79)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Roy Buchanan Documentary from 1971

Linked


Entered at Wed Nov 19 04:42:00 CET 2014 from (68.199.208.79)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: "Blame The Eagles"

Chris Squire from Yes. See the link.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 04:15:57 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.130)

Posted by:

Bill M

Speaking of worthwhile British films, we caught "Pride" over the weekend - partly because of the politics (London LGBT group supports striking Welsh miners in the early '80s) but largely because Bill Nighy is in it. Terrific film. I even though of this place. Once because the politics reminded me of Al Edge's anti-Thatcher posts. And again when the Nighy character reminded me of Garth when he stonewalled a British journalist asking leading questions in the hope of a snarky, and thus newsworthy, answer.


Entered at Wed Nov 19 02:57:41 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: The Imitation Game etc

I agree with Peter V's assessment of "The Imitation Game", which we saw last Friday. The standard of acting is extremely high and award nominations would be deserved. The script is a touch clunky at times but not so as to detract from one's enjoyment. Earlier this year, we visited Bletchley Park and the film, inevitably, simplifies what happened, overstating some aspects and downplaying others, but the thrust of the story holds true.

For example, there is a brief passing reference in the film to the early contribution of three Polish mathematicians whereas the Bombe machine designed by Alan Turing and Gordon Welchman was inspired by "bomba", an earlier machine designed by the Polish Cypher Bureau. At Bletchley itself, you will now find a Polish Memorial.

By the way, I have never seen the "U-571" film and have no intention of doing so in the future. I do not expect exactitude and the entirely realistic representation of facts in a feature film but that just went too far.

General Eisenhower said that the intelligence from Bletchley Park "saved thousands of British and American lives".

Incidentally, American servicemen were deployed at Bletchley Park during WWII, as the staffing levels there built up. I do not know when they first arrived but the number eventually reached around 300.


Entered at Tue Nov 18 21:47:46 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: The Imitation Game

Link to my review of the Benedict Cumberbatch film about Alan Turing and the Enigma codes in World War II. A really first-rate film.


Entered at Tue Nov 18 21:08:44 CET 2014 from (131.137.35.74)

Posted by:

sadavid

Subject: tries harder

Who is the second of the two "celebrated musician/composers"?


Entered at Tue Nov 18 16:46:11 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Simon: Too bad it wasn't that place on Stoll Road. Some enterprising restauranteur could do well by re-establishing it as, oh, the Big Pink Roadhouse - with a swish bistro downstairs called Basement Tapas.


Entered at Tue Nov 18 16:05:21 CET 2014 from (109.148.250.71)

Posted by:

Simon

Web: My link

Hi Lo Ha is up for sale.


Entered at Tue Nov 18 14:50:53 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

I wandered into the local bookstore last night to find the a young Bob Dylan looking out at me from the cover of November 20 issue of "Rolling Stone". A very nice surprise - a six-page cover story (seven if you count the cover) by a David Browne and a two-page article by the Greil Marcus. The Marcus is accompanied by a photo of Bob and Rick playing in the basement - Bob on acoustic guitar, Rick on Fender electric guitar (i.e., not bass). I wonder if THAT got recorded? I like this bit from the Browne:

"Hudson says the looseness of Dylan's songs was partly triggered by the Hawks. 'Richard made up a song about going upstairs from downstairs,' he says. 'A little song that has not been heard. Spoken word and little songs that were for the most part silly. Bob heard what we had done.' Hudson adds, chuckling, 'and I remember him saying, 'Oh, I see ...'"

A personal vignette from this morning - significant to me. My wife in not a Dylan fan, but is very perceptive and also knows that listening to the BTs is important to me. Usually I turn off whatever I'm listening to in the car before she gets in, but today I failed because I was just getting to the key second verse of the alternate take of "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere" - which is what she heard when she climbed in: "Hey there, you bunch of basement noise. You ain't no punching bag. I see you walking out there, and you're the ones to do it." Totally uncoached, she said, "Isn't that nice, a personal song. That must've have really meant something." Yes!!


Entered at Tue Nov 18 07:08:34 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Jim, are you unaware that Dylan sings everything on the new BT except one or two verses?


Entered at Tue Nov 18 03:20:08 CET 2014 from (23.242.61.90)

Posted by:

Jim

Web: My link

Subject: The Basement Tapes Complete

Ok, Bill confirmed that Hudson had recorded The Hawks without Dylan. But I still can't find which BTC tracks weren't sung by Dylan (and I've read this current Guestbook). By the way, are the original photos by Reid Miles included in the BTC box? Thanks.


Entered at Mon Nov 17 21:20:35 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Jim: Scroll back for a week or so and you'll find most and maybe all of your answers.


Entered at Mon Nov 17 20:50:59 CET 2014 from (23.242.61.90)

Posted by:

Jim

Web: My link

Subject: The Basement Tapes Complete

If someone has figured out which tracks on the BTC weren't sung by Dylan, please specify on this website's track listings. Did Hudson record additional tracks that weren't sung by Dylan but were omitted from this volume? Thanks.


Entered at Mon Nov 17 19:17:59 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Another BT bit that found its way into "The Weight" is Robbie's little guitar run accompanying the line-long "yeahhhhhh" in the choruses of "Going To Acupulco". My favourite bit of the liner notes with the "Raw" set was Garth talking about the Hawks spending their time listening to the gospel records rejected by record thieves. It seems reasonable to suspect that those records influenced our guys' playing in the basement.


Entered at Mon Nov 17 19:14:13 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Written on the subway wall

Well, one person is listening …


Entered at Mon Nov 17 18:33:19 CET 2014 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Sounds of Silence

'I've come to talk with you again.'


Entered at Sun Nov 16 17:18:54 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Sound advice

I suppose if that is what the artist wants (in this case, echo) then that is artistic privilege. Then it is the listener/critic/reviewer who has to decide if it is appropriate for him/her.

I absolutely agree about venue. I saw Leonard Cohen in an arena in Victoria and the sound was pristine. (My main problem with those sites is primarily because I can't get the kind of seats I would like. I had superb seats for Leonard Cohen) However, in many arena shows, sitting in the middle or higher up, I have often been disappointed. I've been told that one can get excellent sound even at the Air Canada Centre in Toronto but my limited experience there has been largely unsatisfactory (I was sitting high up). I have never had a bad sound experience at Massey Hall.


Entered at Sun Nov 16 16:59:26 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Sound is a major issue. But take Leonard Cohen. I’ve seen him in the 20,000 seat O2 arena in London, then I’ve seen him twice in Bournemouth in a 3000 seater and once in the open air with the bandshell set up next to a railway embankment with passing trains in heavy rain (“Mercedes Benz World”). And you could here every word every time.

Paul Simon too – I’ve seen him in a 5000 seater, a 3000 seater and with 99,999 other happy listeners in Hyde Park. You can hear every word. As you can with James Taylor.

It takes money obviously, but there is something else. Soundcheck all you like in an empty hall, then put 1700 bodies in there and the sound changes. Allegedly Paul Simon has people analyse every venue and program the sound mixer months in advance. But you know, I rarely if ever see the sound crew take themselves away from the computer screens and walk round the hall. In the days before computer control, way back in 1970, we used to put two on the board and when the band started with audience in, one would walk to all the corners and LISTEN.

In Bellowhead’s case, I suspect he likes the echo. He used to use a megaphone for one number.


Entered at Sun Nov 16 15:48:58 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Sound at concerts

Thank you , Peter , for this review of Bellowhead. The sound issue is vexing. I've written briefly about my experiences in this regard. I have seen some of my favourite performers in more than 1 site and with presumably with different sound technicians. I'm sure that the music is stellar as it leaves the vocal cords and the instruments, but the venue and/or the techs can destroy and make it less than what it is. I avoid sports venues now (though I have heard some fairly good/not excellent concerts in them). I would have thought that the 'room' you were in , Peter, was fairly acceptable and so the technicians should examine why the problem you describe occurs. I assume that a sound check is the standard and that many ears decide if all is well. I assume that going through a few of the presentations of the evening in such a soundcheck rehearsal will assure that all is well and that you will get what you expect, clear vocals and a proper balance sound mix. Am I wrong?


Entered at Sun Nov 16 15:36:41 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Let Her Run

To accompany the review, YouTube link to official video for Bellowhead "Let Her Run."


Entered at Sun Nov 16 15:21:25 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Bellowhead

Review of Bellowhead at Southampton last night, keeping up their reputation as "Britain's best live act."


Entered at Sun Nov 16 02:57:49 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: C=1/NM

Contributions to this site are inversely proportional to the quantity of new music available

C = 1/NM


Entered at Sat Nov 15 16:29:39 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: CBTapes

Amazon.ca this morning dropped the CBTapes to $125.00 from $141.00. Amazon.com comes in at $119.00. Thanks Amazon.ca


Entered at Sat Nov 15 04:15:44 CET 2014 from (173.3.51.192)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Subject: GARTH

What Jed pinpointed, Garth making his comments and then hitting the piano- Garth is a very sharp man. Garth knows how to say exactly what he means, and how to act exactly how he means. And he knows how to refrain, though not necessarily to make his point, but maybe to avoid topics that he could have a myriad of reasons for not wanting to discuss. Often, courtesy, gentlemanliness, kindness, respect, friendship, or thinking that something is nobody elses's business. I haven't watched the video since the first two times the other day, but i recall Garth indicating that THEY were writing songs. Talking about what THEY were striving for, what THEY were doing.


Entered at Fri Nov 14 20:20:24 CET 2014 from (68.198.160.198)

Posted by:

Bob F.

Web: My link

Subject: Video of Dylan and G.E. Smith from Bridge Benefit 1988

This link was on Expecting Rain today from the AllDylan Website. Professional video, really great!


Entered at Fri Nov 14 18:35:26 CET 2014 from (64.94.31.206)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Bob was cool

So were The Band.Garth summed it up when he said that and started playing piano immediately.Let the music speak for itself.I agree with JT.Don't need a critic or reviewer to know which way the wind blows!Let the music,the poetry speak for itself!


Entered at Fri Nov 14 17:19:42 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: BTs creation

The Basement Tapes music has suffered some of the slings and arrows which come with media attention. Things are being blown out of all proportion regarding their significance. The roots of music approach of course was heavily influenced by this effort in the basement, but its significance in 1967 was not yet apparent other than the blues effect shown by some of the British groups. The 'Americana' and 'American songbook' effect did not impact in those years from my recollection and experience. This was a time of relaxation and enjoyment for these musicians. What I take away from the BTs is the huge impact of the joining of 6 minds in creating new songs of significance (Tears of Rage, I Shall Be Released, This Wheels On Fire) and songs that Dylan wrote that were new and created in that atmosphere. I wrote this because as usual I think the media journalists are getting carried away. The American roots effect began to rub off over time but the strength of the BTs is primarily the impact of 'awesome' songs and secondarily the fun and relaxation of musician camaraderie. That's how I see it anyway and no journalist or media is going to change that. When I hear Garth talking about those times, it reinforces that impression.


Entered at Fri Nov 14 16:14:40 CET 2014 from (65.189.212.146)

Posted by:

Calvin

Anyone know anything about the upcoming Nick Lowe Tour? Its billed as a Holiday Revue, and if a show based on his recent Christmas Album-well, no. On the other hand Lowe has blown me away on stage in the past, and Ian McLagen and Lost Straitjackets are with him.


Entered at Fri Nov 14 10:06:22 CET 2014 from (219.89.244.239)

Posted by:

Rod

Subject: Garth you're just waisting tape

there's a couple of video snippets in there I've never seen before ...


Entered at Fri Nov 14 03:54:50 CET 2014 from (65.189.212.146)

Posted by:

Calvin

Giddens is a formidable talent, she is always worth a listen.


Entered at Fri Nov 14 02:09:55 CET 2014 from (96.30.173.135)

Posted by:

joe j

Location: S. Twil. Is.
Web: My link

Subject: Lost Tapes

Link is to Rhiannon Giddens' "Spanish Mary". Lyrics allegedly by Dylan. Cool video too.


Entered at Fri Nov 14 01:00:42 CET 2014 from (79.160.47.202)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

Garth... you're just wastin' tape


Entered at Thu Nov 13 23:01:47 CET 2014 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Everybody ... Stoned

Bill M: Hard to respond (especially with a song) when your lying there on your back. Maybe Tom Wilson responded in his stead or maybe it was Dylan.


Entered at Thu Nov 13 22:57:21 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: stones

From a Band-only PoV there's "The Stones I Throw". From a BT PoV there's "Be Careful Of The Stones You Throw". (Goliath's answer song, "Oww, Whadja Do That For?" remains unreleased.)


Entered at Thu Nov 13 22:26:27 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: David & Goliath… Gimmee A Stone

Go, David! Screw Goliath! Taylor Swift is right to use her position to withdraw from Spotify too. Link to Levon on "Gimmee A Stone" from "Largo."


Entered at Thu Nov 13 20:14:19 CET 2014 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: 'Go'

Interesting. Which is David and which is Goliath? Oh, one starts with GO? Maybe that one is Goliath? The stone in the sling can be mighty, as we know from the lore.


Entered at Thu Nov 13 18:33:21 CET 2014 from (67.84.79.22)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Web: My link

Subject: Irving Azoff vs Google

I can't decide if this is a modern day version of David vs Goliath or not. :-)


Entered at Thu Nov 13 14:50:27 CET 2014 from (86.139.206.192)

Posted by:

Simon

Web: My link

Subject: Vinnie Colaiuta on Levon

As it's a wee bit quiet here at the moment - I assume everybody's enjoying the Basement Tapes - I've linked to an interview with drummer Vinnie Colaiuta. He has some very cool things to say about Levon.


Entered at Thu Nov 13 13:36:08 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.157)

Posted by:

Bill M

John D: something that hadn't crossed my mind - but you're absolutely right. A Grammy (or three).

JT: "Tears Of Rage" is a gift that keeps on giving. Great lyrics by Dylan, great musical contributions from all, fantastic vocal by Richard ... and the quirkiest, atypical music beneath it all (again thanks to Richard, I assume).


Entered at Thu Nov 13 01:35:07 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Tears of Rage etc.

I would just like to thank all those involved; in the release of The Complete Basement Tapes. This box should win a Grammy.


Entered at Wed Nov 12 00:00:45 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Tears Of Rage

I have not listened to the 3 takes of Tears of Rage in many moons. Brilliant does not begin to describe this work. If they never did anything else, it would have been more than enough.


Entered at Tue Nov 11 14:07:15 CET 2014 from (81.147.178.166)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Garthian

That's a great adjective, Joe J - Garthian.

Know exactly what you mean.


Entered at Tue Nov 11 09:42:10 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

On the T-Bone BTs, I went to buy them yesterday, only to find they're released NEXT Monday. I was fooled by all the UK papers reviewing them last weekend. Always a mistake to send out review copies too early, I think.


Entered at Tue Nov 11 09:39:56 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

In the UK, it all goes via BT at some time. I've heard bad reports too. I use Zen, but there's a problem with contention. Where we live in Poole, the population increases massively at weekends, and our connection slows right down. BT deny it. I managed to speak to some engineers about "fibre optic" (they were working in the road) and pointed out that the nearest fibre optic junction was half a mile away and then it was conventional cable. They reckoned my download speed would increase from 7 to 8 to 8 to 8.5 if I switched, and there'd still be a contention issue. Not worth it.


Entered at Tue Nov 11 02:13:46 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dunc

Thanks for letting me know. I don't use BT but have heard mixed reports.

At this end, I'm beginning to afew problems but I suspect it is Microsoft playing their games again.


Entered at Tue Nov 11 02:08:27 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.141)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: My thought zackly re T-Bone. Hey, weren't we talking about Dylan being t-boned last week?


Entered at Tue Nov 11 01:37:25 CET 2014 from (96.30.173.135)

Posted by:

joe j

Thanks so much Dunc. That was so Garthian.

Re 'Belle Isle': Yes, it has a familiar melody and, yes, it was in the Gerald S. Doyle songbook, but the only recorded version I ever heard in the 20th century, as I've noted before, was by Bob Dylan.

Still waiting patiently on the latest Bootleg and, while doing so, listening to the original Basement Tapes. Can't help thinking that so many of my favourite selections are Band songs that probably shouldn't have been there ('Orange Juice Blues', 'Yazoo St. Scandal', 'Katie's Been Gone'). That '75 release was about the time I got into either of the artists and was probably the first album by either I bought 'hot off the shelf'. I was eighteen.


Entered at Tue Nov 11 01:13:43 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

How interesting that Garth said The Patriot Game. If he had said With a God On a Our Side it would have worked, but then Bob must have done The Patriot Game words with them.

Rhetorical question, really. If Garth and Robbie had been part of it, T Bone Burnett would no longer have been 'in charge'


Entered at Mon Nov 10 22:24:36 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Don't worry friends. When Dunc says he's frustrated by BT, he means British Telecom in this case.


Entered at Mon Nov 10 22:17:03 CET 2014 from (81.147.178.166)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Ian

Got the emails and read the article. Interesting, thanks. Replied to you by e mail, but it never got to you. Now can't get into my own e mails this evening. I find BT so frustrating at times.

Posted tickets this morning.


Entered at Mon Nov 10 20:58:25 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dunc

Did you get my two e-mails?


Entered at Mon Nov 10 18:43:37 CET 2014 from (184.66.164.212)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Impediments

Pat: Despite what I read in the 'popular' (and I use that word reservedly) media, I don't know the ins and outs of what it takes or what relationships are or any of that. Speculation is a waste of time. So I continue to dream and say 'what if' without any knowledge of impediments.


Entered at Mon Nov 10 18:39:23 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

JT, an even better question is why didn't T-Bone Burnett get Garth and Robbie to provide the backbone for this BT Continued release?


Entered at Mon Nov 10 17:07:54 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: BTs what if?

Wouldn't it be interesting to see Dylan and a crew of contemporaries tour the best of the BTs? (say Garth, Elvis Costello, T-Bone Burnett and a few others) in a limited run. With various players and singers taking front stage at times. That would be something!


Entered at Mon Nov 10 16:51:56 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Dunc: Holy smokes! Thanks for the link.


Entered at Mon Nov 10 16:22:05 CET 2014 from (81.147.178.166)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland
Web: My link

Subject: Garth

Garth's contribution to the Today programme last week makes the BBC news website, today. See link.


Entered at Sun Nov 9 21:06:29 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Stuck Inside of CD4 with the Basement Blues Again

I haven't been able to get past CD4 today. ClothesLine Saga, Sign on the Cross and Don't Ya Tell Henry especially. Listen to the version of Don't Ya Tell Henry from Lo and Behold by Coulson, Dean, McGuiness, Flint - they picked up on the horns.


Entered at Sun Nov 9 20:10:29 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Basement Tapes; evidence of a creative evolution

It is interesting to read the perceptions of the 'writers and critics throughout the land' and elsewhere regarding the BTs. I've also been interested in reading about the views of the 'Dylan people' and the 'Band people' and the intersection of these individuals. My views continue to evolve but essentially they come down to one notion; that this was a 'fun' period of creativity and camaraderie that allowed for the artistic evolution on both ends. As such, it is welcome evidence documenting that evolution and I for one am delighted that it was shared. The creative process is so often a mystery. Thank you to all concerned for giving this gift to me and I think I can say to all of us.


Entered at Sun Nov 9 19:18:30 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

Greg Kot--a huge fan of Dylan and The Band--weighs in on the new BT release in the Chicago Tribune.


Entered at Sun Nov 9 17:09:50 CET 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Submarine hunting missions by Peter V

Now I am really pissed off! My father served as a captain in a submarine in the war against Russians in Baltic Sea. No Sunderlands sent by the Allies above them, thank God, only ordinary Russian bombers. Otherwise I would not exist and post in this gb, right? - They smoked salmon on the beaches and cooked delicious omelettes using eggs of seabirds while Peter's compatriots drank cold tea after flying their fourteen hours.

The moral of this post is of course that it is a blessing that we both post in this Norwegian site in harmony. "Peace", like we said in the sixties :-)


Entered at Sun Nov 9 15:38:39 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Ian, thanks. I can't believe anyone wouldn't be interested! I love flying boats. They have a Solent in the Southampton aviation museum, and they used to have a guy who actually flew on them giving a guided tours. They had individual cabins. They were converted Short Sunderland submarine hunters - often converted halfway through building them. He told us the submarine hunting missions were 7 hours out, seven hours back. No heating, No pressurization. A thought for Armistice Day.


Entered at Sun Nov 9 13:40:55 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Poole and flying boats [not interested, just skip this]

"Clare" at La Guardia:-

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/64c028a70b50b424_large

Flying boats at Poole:

http://www.pooleflyingboats.com/archive.html


Entered at Sun Nov 9 10:29:24 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Fox on The Run

Mimed version, unfortunately, but Bill and others can judge their assertion that they tried to make the chorus sound like The Weight. (See Toppermost on Manfred Mann linked earlier for quote)


Entered at Sun Nov 9 10:20:46 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Ian, double thanks for the Belle Isle info and the mention of Poole Harbour. I have an old "Punch" mag from 1946 or 1947 advertising BOAC with "the longest passenger flight in the world" which was Poole to Auckland NZ, taking six to seven days with some nice overnight hotels along the way. The flying boat dock has long been a yacht club, but when I was very young they had some big flying boats mothballed in the harbour. Well, Heathrow took over, and I hate to imagine an alternative reality with a jumbo flying boat going over my house every minute to land on the harbour among rows and rows of the things. The harbor was also where a huge number of American landing craft assembled before D-Day.

The link was random off Google- but the top images of the harbor change.


Entered at Sun Nov 9 03:01:58 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.157)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

Something different this time - a link to an article about Toronto-baed singer-songwriter Doug Paisley, on whose latest album, "Strong Feelings" Garth Hudson plays (and Mary Margaret O'Hara sings). I believe that Garth also appeared on at least one of Paisley's earlier albums.

Peter V: Nice job on Manfred Mann at Toppermost. For years and years (but no longer) I had two MM 45s - "Mighty Quinn" and "Fox On The Run". Funny, but I don't recall how the latter went, though I must have liked in. I certainly didn't pick on the Weightiness of it, and now I'm wishing I'd kept it.


Entered at Sun Nov 9 01:27:44 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Belle Isle - Newfoundland, Ireland and Britain

Michael Gray’s article in THE TELEGRAPH (#29, Spring 1988 issue) is entitled “Back to Belle Isle” and is 40 pages long, including over 6 pages of footnotes. There was then some feedback from other readers, with a response from Mr Gray, published in THE TELEGRAPH under the title “Backlash to Belle Isle” (#31, Winter 1988 issue) – another 8 pages. I have done no more than scan these 48 pages in a very rushed way and simply cannot summarise them succinctly (and would not wish to enter this fray at all, let alone over a quarter of a century later. I will pick out a few points.

“Blooming Bright Star of Belle Isle” was printed by SING OUT! magazine in its Summer 1957 issue but then appeared on page 31 of “Reprints from Sing Out ! Volume 9”, published in 1966. As one contributor wrote of the lyric, “(it) is identical to Dylan’s version, allowing for certain carelessness in his vocal”. Another contributor also believed that Dylan was working from this Sing Out! reprint book. The first goes on to suggest that, since Dylan cannot read music, he made up a melody and then “extemporises and rearranges the melody as the song progresses”.

There is discussion as to whether the song originated in Ireland, with evidence to support that it did. As Newfoundland did not join the Canadian Confederation until 1949, prior to which it was a colony and dominion of the United Kingdom, there was a great deal of trade and other interchange across the Atlantic, including cultural interchange, Ireland being the first landfall from Newfoundland.

To end, I will inject something quite different. On 13 September 1940 (a week after the Luftwaffe had changed its strategy to an all-out attack on London) an “Empire”-class flying boat of BOAC named “Clare” took off from Poole Harbour and headed westward. Though civilian, it was camouflaged but was unarmed and had no fighter escort. It flew to Shannon on the west coast of Eire but weather delayed its onward flight. The next day, another flying boat arrived from Poole carrying a bundle of London newspapers, which were transferred to “Clare”. That evening (on a day when 185 German aircraft were shot down raiding London), “Clare” took off on the Great Circle route to Newfoundland. The next day, it luckily found a gap in the clouds and descended to Botwood on the Bay of Exploits in Newfoundland. It stayed just over an hour before flying on to Boucherville near Montreal. By dusk, “Clare” was circling New York at an altitude of 1000 feet. It made a circuit over the East River as far as the Queensborough Bridge and alighted at La Guardia airport. This was a time when German propaganda claimed that London was rubble and that Fleet Street had been bombed out of action. That an unarmed civil airplane had made the crossing at the height of the Battle of Britain had a great impact in America. Newspapers there printed photostats of the London newspapers, reporting on the war, mentioning that bad news was not concealed (the bombing of Buckingham Palace, for example) and commenting on the normality of the advertisements. The NEW YORK POST’s banner headline on 18 September 1940 was: EXTRA EXTRA! LONDON NEWSPAPERS IN BUSINESS AS USUAL.

I include the above in part because the role of civilian airman in WWII is rarely mentioned but mainly to illustrate the close links between the British Isles and Newfoundland that existed well into the 20th century. On my own first flight to the USA (a student charter in the mid-1960s), for example, the former Pan American Airways Douglas DC-7 faced strong headwinds and had to divert to Gander Airport in Newfoundland to refuel.

Also, I though Peter V might like to see Poole Harbour get a mention here.


Entered at Sat Nov 8 23:27:59 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Speculation on Dylan

John D and anyone interested: Assuming this is the album of the future, will Dylan tour these songs What an interesting prospect that would be. My hope always was that Bob Dylan would do an ' almost unplugged' tour with minimalist backing by superb musicians. Smaller venues like the ones he is now playing would be a perfect setting for these songs. One can only hope. The future is bright. (I gotta wear shades).


Entered at Sat Nov 8 22:44:17 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: From Chris Morris's Wasted Space Column...What comes after The Complete Basement Tapes?

This morning I took a break from spinning The Basement Tapes Complete to address the music that may very well be on the next release from Bob Dylan, Shadows in the Night. The latter project was apparently put on the back burner in deference to the six-CD archival set that landed this week. A leaflet announcing the 2015 release of Shadows was included with the Basement Tapes set.

Dylan leaked a track from the thus far unreleased album this spring: “Full Moon and Empty Arms,” a pop song adapted from Rachmaninoff’s “Piano Concerto No. 2” and recorded by Frank Sinatra, of all people, in 1945, during his first days as a soloist, at Columbia Records. Since then, an intriguing post has appeared on the Dylan-obsessive Web site Expecting Rain; the writer, who identified himself as “Geezerfreak,” claimed to have inside knowledge of the other tracks recorded by Dylan (with his working band and guitarist Dean Parks) for Shadows in the Night. He listed 21 songs purportedly recorded in January and February of this year at Capitol Studios in Hollywood; he later amended the list with a song he said he forgot.

Of the songs allegedly cut for the record, 19 of the 21 were recorded by Sinatra. (The other two are Johnny Mercer and Hoagy Carmichael’s “Skylark,” which Sinatra never cut in the studio, and “Didn’t He Ramble,” a New Orleans antique waxed by Louis Armstrong, among others.) The oldest of the renderings dated back to Sinatra’s tenure with trumpeter Harry James’ band in 1939; the most recent was heard on the Voice’s 1980 album Trilogy.

There’s no way of verifying the info about what may or may not be coming on the album, but Geezerfreak called at least one number correctly: “Stay With Me,” the theme song for the movie The Cardinal, which Sinatra recorded in 1964 for Reprise, was debuted by Dylan as a concert encore last weekend at the Dolby Theatre in L.A.


Entered at Sat Nov 8 21:19:16 CET 2014 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Rick

Pure genuis.His bass playing on take 1 of Lo and Behold is so intricate,tuneful,melodic-perhaps one of the most interesting bass lines I've ever heard.He just zips in and out of musical lanes with great feel and efficiency.In take 2 he slightly alters the bass lines but his choice for emphasis on particular notes compliment Garth's organ beautifully.The Band's brilliance musically is so much fun to hear.Rick was the musical highlight on those takes,but they all shine throughout.


Entered at Sat Nov 8 20:26:00 CET 2014 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Basement Tapes Book-Garth

In the book(as I sit here beginning disc 3) there is a section by Jan Haust where he describes Garth's work with him on the tapes.Garth's musical memories,keeping things accurate,and admiration for Dylan's ability to "play" the typewriter resulting in a stream of songs were discussed. Then,Haust writes this: "Of course Garth's admiration appears to us from an alternate dimension,a spiritual plane where the first language is music,pure music.Garth's language.Throughout Dylan's instantly typed,freshly recorded songs we can hear Garth's organ fills and swirls,embellishments and accompaniments inspired by the words.Two masters each playing their own keys to a previously unknown kingdom."


Entered at Sat Nov 8 18:45:00 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: 5-4-3-2-1 … it's the Manfreds

Manfred Mann Toppermost is now up … several Dylan references and one song I had not noticed was inspired by The Weight. But it was.


Entered at Sat Nov 8 17:58:40 CET 2014 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: See You Later Allen Ginsberg

Who's singing with Bob on this song?


Entered at Sat Nov 8 17:47:09 CET 2014 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Basement/Storytone

Got both. Basement,so far loving disc 1.Peter,correct on your view of Storytone-I like the big band stuff musically.Lyrically,some good moments but generally inconsistent.Brain too rattled by Bob and the boys to focus properly on Neil-so I'll return to it.Back to the Basement!


Entered at Sat Nov 8 17:09:39 CET 2014 from (81.159.126.251)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Belle Isle

Enjoyed the correspondence. I would never have noticed that line, Peter, but agree now that it is added.

The genre of the song and Loch Earn made me always assume it was Scottish, but the three versions Ian links to all have Erin, so probably Irish.

Thanks everybody.


Entered at Sat Nov 8 08:43:15 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Belle Isle / Basement / Traffic

Thanks for the Newfoundland link. My notes on Belle Isle were circa 1998, and had already been updated to get Michael Gray's "Appalchian ballad" reappraisal. The Newfoundland ballad takes the feet out from under all of it. 1927? At least when written down. Then that "clever pastiche" verse is just plain bad. Disappointing, though I'm sure Bob found it amusing and knowingly. It still sounds a different time frame to the rest of the song. But that's folk music. It gets half-remembered and adapted and added to.

Bill makes a very good point. Every assumption in every write-up has Dylan directing every choice of material. OK, he wanted to expose them to folk, but if you've been in a situation when musicians have all day to piddle around, it doesn't work like that, even when one guy is the leader, or director or boss. People mess around tuning up, warming up, playing bits of stuff. Sometimes others join in. Bill must be right - sometimes others may have suggested the next bit. Not "Let's do this" but by messing around. I recall one hilarious jam in the UK where one guy (not the organist) was playing with the Hammond trying to get it to sound tinny, like a Farfisa, because he'd been told you couldn't. He started playing "96 Tears" while he tried and everyone laughed, then one joined in, then another. That's a natural process.

I've been waiting among all these BT reviews for the first reviewer to point out that Traffic moved into their cottage in Berkshire in April 1967 to invent "getting the band together in the country" by playing, jamming and writing in a rural retreat. Parallel development.


Entered at Sat Nov 8 06:08:52 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.129)

Posted by:

Bill M

A couple specific points and a general one on Ben Rollins' intersting and helpful track-by-track of the Dylan/Hawks BT songs:

1) "Po' Lazarus" is another song from the second Ian and Sylvia album, supporting my suspicion that Bob had a copy at hand and was using it and presumably others as a teaching aid.

2) In the discussion of "Be Careful Of The Stones That You Throw", I would have liked to see mention of the first Levon and the Hawks single, "The Stones I Throw" (with a "That" thrown in when sung), which JT reports having seen them play when the '65 Dylan tour came to Toronto and the uncapitalised-upon minor success of which likely had something to do with Levon's departure not all that long afterwards.

3) I think Rollins fails badly in seeing Dylan's alternate lyrics for "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere" (take 1) as free word association rather than encouragement to the Hawks' talents and aspirations.

4) A point is made that Dylan returned to "Quinn The Eskimo" and released a live version on "Self Portrait", but there's no mention that said live version also included the very same guys (plus Levon) as played on the BT version. Oh, them again!

5) The general point, a quibble, is that Rollins, like Marcus in "Weird America", conveys the idea that all songs were chosen by Dylan, which seems unlikely in any musical setting involving talented peers horsing around. Rick in particular knew C&W, Richard in particular knew gospel, Garth was a walking musical encyclopedia and Robbie knew the blues and (as he pointed out to Marcus, but was ignored - likely for rhetorical reasons) knew country songs from time spent with uncles and cousins on the Six Nations reserve.


Entered at Sat Nov 8 04:48:19 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.129)

Posted by:

Bill M

Carmen: They did, tapes exist and there was a nixed thought that the Hawks-only (or Hawks-sung) BT material would be included in the BT set. Presumably it'll make it into the history-of-the-Hawks set that's been mentioned here. 2015, the 50th anniversary of the meeting with Dylan, seems a sensible goal, though I would expect a lot of pre-Dylan material to be included as well.

Who drums on "Ferdinand"?


Entered at Sat Nov 8 04:13:58 CET 2014 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

Carmen

Location: PA
Web: My link

Subject: RR MOJO Interview

RR mentions a few times that they recorded a bunch of their own stuff.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 22:09:11 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Belleisle Sound

Heading up Kingcome Inlet about half way on starboard, you go thru' a little narrows into a quiet little body of water that is Belleisle Sound.

Wonder who brought that name to that place/ Perhaps some one from Captain George Vancouver's ship.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 19:37:51 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Kevin J: Nice, but no Elmer Vasko? (I won't even mention Leo Boivin from the golden age of defencemen.)


Entered at Fri Nov 7 18:54:26 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

NwC: You might try playing "Long Black Veil"; maybe it'll turn into "The Weight", as it did in the hands of Handsome Ned on a wonderful CD released a few years ago by Other People's Music, i.e., Jan Haust, now suddenly of BT fame.

Since that version of LBV doesn't appear to exist online, I've instead posted 'my' first (and so the best) "Nottamun Town" - by Fairport Convention when their vocal frontline included Ian Matthews as well as Sandy Denny and Richard Thompson.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 18:33:39 CET 2014 from (70.53.44.251)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

The track-by-track description of the BT’s at bobdylan.com as referenced at the What’s New section of this website is an enjoyable read.

John D: Must have been something walking down those stairs and just imagining all that was created down there……those sorts of visits mean a lot to me…..near the end of my Dad’s life we spent some time going back to his childhood home and area. Special times. Also while travelling in a place like Rome I find it more rewarding to just stop at a place like the Colosseum and look around, feeling the walls thinking about what happened there rather than shuffle through with headset on with the all the other tourists……Bob Dylan has some of that as well as I recall some years back while in Winnipeg, he went for a visit to Neil Young’s childhood home and asked if he could have a glance inside……….and a by the way that Bill M might know as well your mention of Duff Roman the other day reminded me to ask about the great “Yonge Street – Rock n Roll Stories” and so I called my video store contact and he looked it up and according to him - still no DVD release date ! Perhaps they are waiting for a tie-in to the L&TH’s release in 2015.

“Nottamun Town” and “Masters of War”………..while such clean lifts are part of the folk tradition, one wonders what we would make of some young whipper-snapper 100 years from now when they take the best of the Beatles and add some great lyrics.

LINKED: “Nottamun Town” done by Ginger Baker – kidding. Thank you Ian…..the only Dylan book I have ever read was Chronicles and I loved it……he was important to me in many ways growing up and I never wanted to know too much about all the other stuff that unauthorized bios seem to always focus on.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 16:03:48 CET 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster (again)

Subject: 'Belle Isle' of Dylan

Silly me. I always thought that it was Belle Ile on the coast of Bretagne. So, the colour of my French car (blue) is not after a Self Portrait song at all? Allright, let it be "Blue Moon" in the same album then. Who cares?


Entered at Fri Nov 7 15:50:41 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Web: My link

Subject: Belle Isle - background

http://www.wtv-zone.com/phyrst/audio/nfld/03/blooming.htm


Entered at Fri Nov 7 15:49:18 CET 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: 'Galway Races' and 'TNTDODD'

After my recent post I picked up my ol' banjo and played 'Galway Races' once again - but with a too slow and weird tempo and jumped over every fourth or fifth note, too. I am a bit rusty, you see. BUT WHAT DID I GET, GOOD PEOPLE? I got TNTDODD!!! Now to you gb master minds: find out who had heard this song or, even better, who played it. Obviously Mr. Dylan did not. Then you'll get the one who stays behind the most of the melody. - Maybe, maybe not.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 15:37:32 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Belle Isle

Michael Gray wrote a very long article on "Belle Isle" for THE TELEGRAPH (the now defunct Dylan fanzine, not the UK daily newspaper). It was long enough to be spread over two issues. As I recall, the song is thought to originate in Britain but seems to have settled (as it were) in Newfoundland in Canada.

The SELF PORTRAIT folio songbook gives the credit for "Belle Isle" as "New music by Bob Dylan" and it is copyrighted to his "Big Sky Music". It has also been listed as "Trad. arranged Bob Dylan". I believe it was printed in SING OUT! magazine some time, which is where Dylan may have found it. I have a pretty complete set of SING OUT! magazines from the 1960s but it would take a while to locate this particular song. That said, it is believed that Dylan was working from the SING OUT! REPRINT booklet(s) of songs during the SELF PORTRAIT sessions, so it is probably in one of those.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 15:29:34 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Those Belle Isle lyrics would fit the tune of another Scottish classic, "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean", a tune recorded by the Silver Beatles. Anyway, what the Dylan verse does for me is bring to mind the "I gave my love a cherry" bit of "Animal House". The 'beardies', as Peter puts it, may have appreciated the joke, but what would Blutto have done? By the way, the shortest water route between the Canadian mainland and Joe J's island, Newfoundland, is across the Strait of Belle Isle - named after a much much smaller island in the vicinity.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 14:43:03 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Belle Isle

That's a much discussed song, starting with Michael Gray. He originally thought it a Dylan original, while Tim Riley and Clinton Heylin disagreed. Gray revisited his research anew and found an Appalachian ballad. Like Wild Mountain Thyme there's debate on whether it's Scottish or Irish too. This is what I had in it from my unfinished project "REVILED - the Albums Critics Love To Hate."

BELLE ISLE

The deep bass and brushed snares make you think Country and Western. Then the full pop strings come in like 101 Strings or Mantovani. The lyrics combine echoes of a traditional English ballad (maidens and damsels) with Irish music (the banks of Lough Erin … my blooming bright star of Belle Isle - remember Belfast was originally Belle Fast - good harbour) or maybe it’s Scots (Loch Earn not Lough Erin), or is it in fact American?

Listen to this verse:

Young maiden I wish not to banter

Tis true I come here in disguise

I came here to fulfil my last promise

And hoped to give you a surprise!

The last line is suddenly modern English (and forced), and you can almost here the chuckle in his voice. Michael Gray devotes a whole page to the song in The Art of Bob Dylan and says of this line:

GRAY: "The fourth line brings the fall - that ludicrously bad distribution of syllables, the awfulness of the rhyme and the bathos of the hope expressed … it has all been perfectly timed. It is brilliant clowning." ENDQUOTE

Dead right. I see it in a folk club setting. The previous act had done Chastity Belt and as he sings "And hoped to give you a surprise … " he winks, and the beardies roar with laughter and make obscene gestures. Dylan knew the folk club scene, and this is pure pastiche.

Michael Gray believed at first that it was a genuine Dylan original, though Tim Riley questions the parentage of both this and Alberta, saying Dylan’s claim to credit is disrespectful at best, deceitful at worst, Clinton Heylin also says it’s a traditional song. I always agreed with Gray that it was too much of a parody to be a real ancient ballad. The only other tune called Belle Isle I could find listed is by the Band of The Grenadier Guards, on an album which also features Rule Brittania. I haven’t heard it, but it means it could be an old tune with new lyrics (compare The Patriot Game and Restless Farewell) .

However, Gray’s later research for articles on the song revealed that it was indeed a genuine Appalachian ballad. On the recording sheet it’s called Belle Isle (The Star of Belle Isle). But I believe the lyrics were doctored. And that Dylan added that verse.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 14:32:30 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

A little advice, don't put the "at" symbol on the internet, as SPAM search engines look for it and find it. I'd put "followed by the at symbol, then" rather than the symbol.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 13:46:52 CET 2014 from (86.149.109.67)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Ian W

Enjoyed that last text, Ian. I'm too young for that era. It would really be Lay Lady Lay that would take me into Dylan. Rag Mama Rag would take me into the Band. The first Dylan album that would come into the house would be 'Bringing It All Back Home' followed by 'Planet Waves'. But at that time I did not know the musicians who played on 'Planet Waves' were the same musicians who played on 'Rag Mamma Rag'. Also 'Mr Tambourine Man' by the Byrds, (I never knew was written by Dylan) took me into a life long love of the Byrds.

Tickets are like mini posters. e mail me at cduncan521@btinternet.com and I'll get them to you.

Really enjoying all the coverage the Basement tapes are getting.

I feel guilty about Jean Redpath and some other older folkies because I would have shown little interest in them when I was consumed by the Beatles, Kinks, Stones etc.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 12:53:31 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Metacritic

At this date, The BTs Complete has the highest score ever recorded at Metacritic - 100 - . (based upon 10 critical reviews). Not news to us, but the impact to the overall music public is very high).


Entered at Fri Nov 7 12:48:43 CET 2014 from (92.18.196.57)

Posted by:

Frank

Subject: Dylan

Dylan has a place in Scotland.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 12:37:52 CET 2014 from (83.249.132.27)

Posted by:

NorthWestCoaster

Location: Scania Northwest

Subject: Scottish music and Dylan

As an amateur banjo player (with a capital _A_) I use to strum Scottish and Irish songs every now and then. Somehow sooner or later they always turn to sound like a Dylan song. But there is one Irish song which never does: "Galway Races". - BTW can't help but mention the beautiful Joan Baez Song Book - a double album of Scottish and Irish songs.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 12:17:53 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Bert Jansch, Dylan tix and Jean Redpath

I saw Bert Jansch quite a lot of times in the mid-1960s but I'd have to check my pocket diaries for the dates and places but it must be something like a dozen times. I also went several times to the Horseshoe Hotel in London in early 1967 (which is where Pentangle slowly evolved from Bert and John – John Renbourn, that is). I saw Pentangle in Glasgow (at the City Halls in Candleriggs); we entered early from the wrong side of the building and caught a bit of the soundcheck (no security in those days). I last saw Bert Jansch in Edinburgh (in the Spiegeltent in Charlotte Square during the Book Festival); I was introduced to him by Colin Harper, his biographer, and Bert signed my ticket. Incidentally, Colin’s book (“Dazzling Stranger”) is well worth the read.

Dunc, I’d be pleased to have those Dylan tickets. I don’t collect tickets as such but, back in the days when correspondence was by snail mail, it was not uncommon to paperclip a ticket stub to a letter so, over the years, I got a few tickets from shows I didn’t attend – and some of those pre-computer tickets can be quite attractive.

Dylan certainly crossed paths with Jean Redpath but she isn’t mentioned in CHRONICLES VOLUME ONE. Yes, she landed in a sort-of communal apartment when Dylan was staying there. In fact, I seem to recall that she once said that, when she first went there, she came upon a sort-of jam session with several folk-singers, including Dylan. Robert Shelton, who first wrote Dylan up in the NEW YORK TIMES, also wrote letters to various (influential?) people, promoting both her and Dylan. I wrote about Shelton’s behind-the-scenes support for Dylan a few years back and Jean Redpath features in the article.

Incidentally, whereas Dylan flew to London in December 1962 to appear in the BBC-TV play MADHOUSE ON CASTLE STREET, Jean Redpath came back to Scotland that month for Christmas and Hogmanay.

Dunc, if there is some way you can get your e-mail address to me, I’d happily send you a copy of the article in exchange for the Oporto tickets.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 11:38:18 CET 2014 from (86.149.109.67)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Bill M,

Just by coincidence the wonderful Dylan version of 'Belle Isle' has come on as I play 'Another Self Portrait'. Loch Earn is a beautiful loch.

Peter Stone Brown's article made me think again of how good a folk singer Dylan is.

I think 'Another Self Portrait' is wonderful.

Retirement seems to be a mix of babysitting and playing music. Loudly because the neighbours are out.

Postnote:I remember you championing 'Songs For A Taylor'. There has ben reports this week in the Scottish press about his funeral at Golders Green in London. Eric Clapton and Ginger Baker attended.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 11:22:06 CET 2014 from (86.149.109.67)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Who would you get to play the Band

The press covering the Band in Britain continues.

There was an excellent, substantial article in The Herald(Glasgow) yesterday, 'Mining for diamonds in Dylan's basement tapes' referring to T Bone Burnett's overseeing of putting music to Bob's box of lyrics from 1967. The result is 'Lost on the River:The New Basement Tapes.' People like Elvis Costello and Marcus Mumford set music to the lyrics.

I can't link the article because it's pay to view.

Burnett talks of his relationship with Dylan and forming a modern day version of the Band and I quote:

'He even assembled a modern day version of The Band in the form of Costello, Mumford, My Morning Jacket's Jim James, Talor Goldsmith from Californian folk rockers Dawes and Rhiannon Giddens from old time revivalists Carolina Chocolate Drops.'

'I was looking for people like The Band, who could all sing and play multiple instruments in their own right as well as being Band leaders. People who I knew to be collaborative, too, because the idea was to let it find its own course.'

'The idea, says Burnett,was not to replicate the original Basement Tapes but to honour its freewheeling spirit'.

While recording the album 'Dylan was in the adjoining studio, beavering away on a new album of standards which Burnett describes as sounding like Debussy or something.'

Hope this is of interest.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 10:52:45 CET 2014 from (86.149.109.67)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Thanks

Bill M:Bert passed. I only saw him once alone Bill M. I was lucky to see him with Pentangle twice, including the farewell tour. Scottish acts have a hard time, whatever the genre. You've got to break Scotland, then move to London to get a recording contract. See Ian's post below.

Ian W:Thanks very much for the effort. I'll enjoy looking up the websites. You never came across Dylan referring to Jean Redpath? At this time I would be at primary school and into hit singles.

Played 'Bringing It All Back Home', ''Highway 61' and 'Another Self Portrait' yesterday. I love 'Another Self Portrait' and Bob's singing on this album.

I was once on holiday in Oporto and was lucky to see Bob playing in a smallish theatre where the first part of the set was semi acoustic. I came across the tickets which have the Dylan portrait from'Good As I Been To You' on them - old fashioned card tickets. If anybody collects Dylan tickets they are welcome to them.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 10:29:28 CET 2014 from (67.189.178.48)

Posted by:

Norman

Subject: My email address

normanclancyster@gmail.com


Entered at Fri Nov 7 09:44:23 CET 2014 from (79.160.47.202)

Posted by:

jh

Norman Clancy: Can you please send me an e-mail? Thanks.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 05:19:46 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Bill M, google "Scotch Irish influence on Appalachian music" and prepare for a long night. There is also an excellent little book called "Attack and Die" which illuminates the effect of the Scotch-Irish war mentality on the Confederacy.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 04:41:48 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.156)

Posted by:

Bill M

Dunc: Thanks for the education. I didn't even know that Jansh was Scottish. Is Scottish? I did see him once, with Renbourn in a Toronto church (in the Annex two or three blocks east of Sonic Boom). I always knew he was a big influence on Donovan, who I always knew was Scottish, and I've convinced myself that a key bit of Donovan's "Atlantis" ("Way down below the ocean, where I want to be, she made me") was stuck in Robbie (Rabbie?) Robertson's mind when he was writing "The Shape I'm In" (I"m going down by the water, but I ain't gonna jump in no no, I'll just be looking for my maker, cause I hear that's where she lives").


Entered at Fri Nov 7 00:53:07 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Spendin the cash

I just had to go down to the store, so I took a burn thru' London Drugs. I bought the 2 disc set of the basement tapes for 20 bucks. I'll listen to it in my truck when I head out to work in a couple of days.

The most expensive set they had there was the 30th anniversary 2 disc set for 30 bucks. I couldn't get myself to shell out $50 all at one shot. If I'm in the mood I'll get it later. It's probably my favourite.


Entered at Fri Nov 7 00:21:48 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Radio Scotland on Dylan's Scottish roots

Dunc, here are two refernces to that programme:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.music.dylan/Zxeo3775W2U

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b015p645


Entered at Fri Nov 7 00:14:51 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan and Scotland - again

"Young But Daily Growin'" is an old song (at least as far back as the 18th century), with lots of variants both lyrically and musically. Dylan was singing it as early as 1961. I've seen it listed simply as British and also as Irish. Some say that its origin is in this song:

http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/folk-song-lyrics/Young_Laird_of_Craigston.htm

... in which case, a it would be Scottish origin. I guess it depends on which version you know and when and where that particular version originated. I'm no expert here.

As for Dylan and Burns, the UK arm of the HMV record shop ran a series of posters in each one of which a famous musician gave his or her most influential song or poem. Dylan chose "A Red, Red Rose".

http://www.robertburns.org/works/444.shtml

Curiously, both of the above are from the late 18th century. "Young But Daily Growin'" first appeared in print (as "Lady Mary Ann") in 1792 and "My luve is like a red, red rose" in 1794.

It was not Bert Jansch who influenced Dylan's composition of "Masters of War". Dylan wrote this song in St. Mary's Hall, Putney, where the rehearsals for the BBC-TV play "Madhouse on Castle Street" took place in December 1962. As far as I am aware, Bert was not in London during this period. Dylan said that, lyrically, he was prompted by coverage in the British press about the Bahamas meeting of President Kennedy and Prime Minister Macmillan that resulted in decision to form the multilateral nuclear force, involving the sale of Polaris missiles to the UK. The tune is most certainly "Nottamun Town" but it is more likley that Dylan was familiar with the Jean Ritchie recording. Apparently, she thought so and made a legal claim. It is also quite possible that Dylan heard someone singing it in a London folk club at that time.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 23:57:36 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Kevin J

A number of years ago I got to tour the Big Pink house; including The Basement. The new owner has really spruced it up in this video.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 23:54:54 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: 2 Things

Pat. Just listened to Lo & Behold Take 2. That's the one we remember from the 75 version. Organ mixed louder.

Jan? OK I'll bite. Sorry don't get it. I'm sure I'll be the only one.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 22:44:25 CET 2014 from (79.160.47.202)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link


Entered at Thu Nov 6 21:15:53 CET 2014 from (86.149.109.67)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland
Web: My link

Subject: Kevin

Thanks Kevin. We crossed in the ether. Glencoe is an imposing glen.

Here's Rab Noakes and a group of Scottish musicians doing Dylan.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 21:01:08 CET 2014 from (86.149.109.67)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland
Web: My link

Subject: Ian W Bill M

Ian W: Thanks. I'm surprised I missed that. I think Rab is excellent and have several of his CDs.

Bill M:Thanks. I don't have that BARK album so it will go on the Xmas list.

I have noticed several Scottish influences over the years, but as you know I'm not an expert.

Actual songs 'Young But Daily Growin', a ballad and 'Bonnie Ship the Diamond', a Scottish whaling song on the Basement Tapes.(The Band are great on this). PSB in his excellent article on the Basement Tapes describes 'Young But Daily Growin' as English with Scottish influence. I thought before his article that it was Scottish.

'Pretty Peggy-O' on 'Bob Dylan' I would think is taken from 'Bonnie Lass O' Fyvie', which I've linked.

Influence of Scottish artists. Bert Jansch's version of 'Nottamun Town' influences 'Masters of War'.(Thanks Peter V for getting me a copy). He as I posted shared a flat with the Scottish folk song collector, Jean Redpath.

Dylan knows his Burns. The lyrics of 'Highlands' for example on Time Out Of Mind' draws on the poetry of Burns.

Hope these examples are of help, Bill. And remember he has a house in the Highlands.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 20:38:11 CET 2014 from (70.53.44.253)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Subject: "Senor" by janey kirk - The Times are a being reversed

Bill M/Dunc: See LINK.......Scottish Country tackles Bob Dylan !


Entered at Thu Nov 6 19:15:02 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Dunc: 1) Do you have the newish BARK, "South"? 2) Where is the Scottish influence reflected in Dylan's work?


Entered at Thu Nov 6 19:04:55 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Dylan and Scotland

Dunc, I seem to recall a programme about this on BBC Radio Scotland a few years back, in the days when I lived within its broadcast area. I think it was put together by Rab Noakes (though he may have been using the more formal Robert Noakes back then).

I may even have a dub of the programme but have no idea where it might be amongst all the CD-Rs, MiniDiscs and cassettes around here. I moved house a few years back and those things have never got back into any sense of order.

I seem to recall Dylan himself, in reference to "Lay Down Your Weary Tune", saying that he probably got it from listening to vinyl releases of Scottish ballads. This may have been when he spent some time on the West Coast with Joan Baez - the timing is about right.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 18:35:31 CET 2014 from (86.149.109.67)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland
Web: My link

Subject: Thanks,

Thanks very much JT, Roger, Kevin, Peter Stone Brown and Dave.

Roger: Thanks. I listen to the Scottish equivalent in the mornings.(You've got James Naughtie back after the referendum. You're welcome.)It was interesting that Heylin never mentioned anything about Dylan producing songs for other artists, he was jamming.

Loved Garth's response - 'Dylan was cool.' I remember reading Garth saying that the one question he didn't want to be asked ever again was what it was like to work with Bob Dylan.

Peter Stone Brown. Great article. Thanks. I've always been interested in how Dylan picked up the Scottish influence, but have never really found an article on this. I know that he shared a flat in Greenwich Village with the singer, academic, Burns expert, Jean Redpath, who sadly died a few months ago. I wonder if you ever came across Dylan mentioning her. (I posted her obituary)


Entered at Thu Nov 6 18:30:20 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Jon Lyness, you also may notice that "We Can Talk" is recorded at 7.5 ips.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 18:22:43 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Today's BBC "TODAY" programme

The alarm went off at 07.45 but it was just after 08.00 that I turned on the TODAY programme. Imagine my surprise when, at the very end, there was a little bit of Garth speaking and then playing. I was actually engaged in something else at the end but I think I caught a snatch of Parry's tune to William Blake's "Jerusalem" [I'm prepared to be wrong about this, though].

I also missed an item of interest to one of my son's and, sadly, the following programme [IN OUR TIME], which I try to catch most weeks, was one of the less interesting ones. And, at the weekend, I passed Melvyn Bragg in one of the alleys between St Martin's Lane and Charing Cross Road, which I thought was a good sign for this week - not so.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 15:51:50 CET 2014 from (24.114.77.66)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: Another fine article as posted at the "What's New" section of this website.......interesting that Garth's favorite from the BT is "Yazoo Street Scandal".

RS Garth video: I had only ever seen pictures of that legendary basement before and had an image of it being very cramped and small.......wonderful to see an actual video and realize how much bigger and lighter and friendlier it appears.......and Bravo to the owners for not building condos!


Entered at Thu Nov 6 14:59:43 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Jon L: Good eye re a Basement version of "We Can Talk". I wonder of Levon's on the 'Bob-centric' other songs on the tape? We know that Levon arrived relatively late in the Basement days, by which time the Hawks already had a deal of their own, or at least knew that serious money was in the bag, and can reasonably infer that planning for their first album was so far along that Levon was allotted just one lead vocal - albeit an all-important one. And since Garth had tape, a recorder and a will to deploy them, surely there's a decent amount of Hawks-sung material around. I'm wondering how much they would have done with Dylan in the room, and maybe even on guitar or piano, and also whether any proto-versions of "The Weight" exist, however sketchy.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 13:43:23 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter v

Subject: Return to Big Pink

What a great little piece of film, with Garth's playing at the end. Thanks.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 13:04:42 CET 2014 from (24.199.71.83)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Location: NYC

Subject: BT video with Garth

At 5:38 in the Garth video, you can catch a glimpse of a list of songs on the back of a tape reel box. The songs listed are Bob-centric cover songs, but there appears to be an early recording of We Can Talk sandwiched in between them?!


Entered at Thu Nov 6 12:57:02 CET 2014 from (67.189.178.48)

Posted by:

Norman Clancy

Web: My link

Subject: The Article

I read the article. I guess I stand corrected. If its in an article it must be right. JH I just want to clarify. You spoke to Jan Haust and he told you he was going to release Levon Helm and the Hawks? If so,tell him to contact the estate and work this out. What amazes me and I have seen it many times. When people have their hand on that bible memories seem to clear right up. What a shame this is. Everyone is trying to do the right thing these days(including Robbie) and this bs has to happen. I am sure John is going to want to strangle me for even posting here but this one is wrong. The record business sucks but I have found that when presented with the truth and it can be proven people tend to do the right thing. Keep that in mind Mr.Faust before you do something stupid.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 12:41:39 CET 2014 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: BT & BAND

Looks like this BT project breathed a little life into Garth. He looked good in the video. Still no answer as to the BAND tracks from the basement and this is frustrating me to no end.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 10:29:01 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter v

Bugger! We're usually listening to "Today" at 7.43, but not this morning.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 10:17:50 CET 2014 from (86.163.134.36)

Posted by:

Roger

Location: Birmingham UK
Web: My link

Subject: Garth on BBC Today programme

Wow - a first. The BBC radio flagship news / current affairs programme featured a short interview with Garth this morning and gave him the honour of playing the show out! The programme will be available shortly at the link above.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 05:00:46 CET 2014 from (67.84.79.39)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

You said it Norm. From first hearing The Weight, with that Crazy Chester verse, & then Virgil Cain and The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down finishing me off. my whole life been Band related. I don't doubt it's been that way for many here.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 04:16:37 CET 2014 from (70.66.250.161)

Posted by:

Rockin Chair

Location: Pacific Northwest

Subject: Of days gone by

After watching the link Dave has so kindly provided, and listening to Garth's reflections this occurs to me.

It is always great to find any thing related to the BAND to post here. However, when we talk about other things which can't help but happen, they are all Band related.

In their lives, I'm sure they lived and as well as the music they had things to say. Other wise, where would the music come from? There had to be things in life and love to write about. What is Rockin Chair? a big piece of two guys lives and what they hoped their end to be.

I won't ever accept that this site has to have a Band event or song or piece about one of the players to be Band related. I think most of us in our lives and how this music affected us is "Band related"

Thanks Dave for a really enjoyable clip......any day now, any way now.............


Entered at Thu Nov 6 03:27:04 CET 2014 from (67.84.79.39)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

Dave, thanks. I was smiling better than i have in a long time!


Entered at Thu Nov 6 03:21:21 CET 2014 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Location: cabbagetown/Saltspring Island

Subject: Dave

Thank you Dave. It's strange, in a very interesting way, that Garth remembers it being bigger now than when he was last there. Gotta love that man.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 02:37:58 CET 2014 from (65.93.118.203)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Subject: Dave H

Thanks for that Wow!! link. Muchly enjoyed it.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 01:15:50 CET 2014 from (70.53.44.173)

Posted by:

Kevin J

The interesting part of the Toronto Star article was the explanation of the technical work Peter Moore did in restoring/enhancing the BT tapes.....If he has been able to do that with the L&TH's recordings ( and related - which is also exciting ) then we might all be in for a real treat.


Entered at Thu Nov 6 00:47:30 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.153)

Posted by:

Bill M

JT / Kevin J / Dave H; Thanks for the links. Keeps getting beter and better eh?


Entered at Thu Nov 6 00:16:45 CET 2014 from (79.160.47.202)

Posted by:

jh

According to Jan H. (thank you, No Depression, for the schizophrenia) and the Toronto Star BT article, the long-awaited Levon & The Hawks box set will be released next year!


Entered at Wed Nov 5 23:46:08 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Dave H, that is about the best ten minutes I've spent in quite a while.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 23:25:12 CET 2014 from (136.167.102.196)

Posted by:

Dave H

Web: My link

Subject: Garth Hudson returns to Big Pink for the first time in 46 years

Video on the Rolling Stone website. Needless to say, a must-see.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 23:07:40 CET 2014 from (70.53.44.146)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

Subject: Toronto Star article on BT - LINKED


Entered at Wed Nov 5 23:07:26 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

John D, after comparing the two, I think Garth played differently on the 75 release version--more held chords that cut through a bit more. What's also obvious is the added harmony vocals on the 75 version which sound overdubbed.

btw, is there going to be a Canadian Squires box set too?


Entered at Wed Nov 5 22:55:07 CET 2014 from (70.53.44.146)

Posted by:

Kevin J

JT…....Thank you.....A fabulous article……of great interest to those so taken with The Basement Tapes…..but especially for those of us excited about a Levon & The Hawks release…….It is happening for the 50th anniversary of the Dylan/Hawks meeting !


Entered at Wed Nov 5 21:55:05 CET 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Toronto and Victoria

Subject: So much written.... so little time

This might be an article worthy of one's time. (I think so).

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/2014/11/05/bob_dylan_and_the_bands_complete_basement_tapes_resurface_at_last.html


Entered at Wed Nov 5 21:32:16 CET 2014 from (71.43.124.98)

Posted by:

Dan

I am really enjoying the 2 CD Raw because I can play it in the house without my wife going nuts. The 75 release has long been a favorite. When all is done, and there is a look back on the whole of Dylan's career, a good case can be made that more accessible "timeless" classics emanate from the Basement Tapes than any album of Dylan's career, the exception may be Bringing It All Back Home if one adds Farewell Angelina and Mama You've Been on My Mind to Mr. Tambourine Man and Maggie's Farm, etc. Great year to be a Band Fan with Isle of Wight and Live at the Academy.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 21:29:57 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

In 1963, Eric Clapton and Tom McGuiness were the two guitarists in The Roosters.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 20:12:44 CET 2014 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Brown Eyed Girl(BEG)

Haven't seen you around these parts in awhile.You out there? You ok?


Entered at Wed Nov 5 19:48:23 CET 2014 from (67.84.79.39)

Posted by:

PutEmUp(Friend0

Bill. If Norm expressed himself as he wished, and if if i interpreted his post correctly ( two big ifs) there was or were separate sessions that Henry Glover recorded and some tracks now ended up on the Basement Tapes release. ALso, LEvon owned 50% of the sound recording of that Glover session and other parties owned the rest. It would also imply that very possibly, the only reason these tracks were able to be released is that Levon no longer is alive and able to veto it (likely with fair reason). This ties in to another thought- there could be similar reasons that there was no official and merch website before. Which i would entirely understand too.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 19:47:05 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

Jon D

Subject: Pat Organ

Honestly that's something I would never have thought of Pat. Guess Garth would know for sure. Because it said Alternate take, I just figured the organ was recorded low.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 18:24:08 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

John D, I would guess that Garth overdubbed the organ on the 75 version. Probably won't be on the new one.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 17:44:12 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.151)

Posted by:

Bill M

Wasn't Tom McGuiness in one of Clapton's pre-Yarbird bands? Maybe Casey and the somethings?

Norman C: You mean Henry Glover had a hand in some of the BT songs on the new box-set?


Entered at Wed Nov 5 16:25:56 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: Manfred and "If You Gotta Go"

Thanks, Peter.

Dylan's publicist in 1965 was Ken Pitt, who later managed David Bowie. I had some contact with Ken a few years back and had a look through the press cuttings on Dylan that he'd got from the cuttings agency that year.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 16:20:33 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Complete Basement Tapes RAW

I now have a copy of the RAW 2 CD version. Will eventually buy the whole thing.

Just a quick note. Cut 2 Side 2 is Lo & Behold Alt. version. Garth's organ is buried. Almost not there. Too used to the 75 version where organ is more dominant. Hopefully the other version is available on 6 CD set.

From time to time the discussion of the Hawks Box Set comes up. I usually post that I know Jan Hausts partner and he says it will come out eventually. With that said, I was very happy to see Garth pay homage in BOLD to Duff Roman; in the liner notes. He's the man I refer to. He did recordings with Levon & The Hawks in the early days. Great recognition to a legend in both the recording and radio industries. A name very familiar to Bill M.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 15:01:19 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Or else you gotta stay all night …

Ian, Tom McGuinesss said:

Manfred and I were watching Bob Dylan on TV. It was just him and his acoustic guitar, on the BBC. He sang that, and it wasn’t on any album. Manfred and I looked at each other and thought this was something we could do. Our manager was Dylan’s publicist, so within a few days we had this acetate of him singing it. A week or two later we recorded it. And if it wasn’t for Tears by Ken Dodd, it would have been number one!


Entered at Wed Nov 5 14:40:29 CET 2014 from (82.25.178.222)

Posted by:

Ian W

Subject: The Manfred's "If You Gotta Go"

Peter is right in saying that the Manfreds (or one of them at least) heard "If You Gotta Go" on Dylan's 1965 BBC-TV appearances and wanted to record the song. The story I heard is that they approached Dylan's UK music publisher who had got an audio-recording of the BBC programme and gave them a dub of the song. The next bit of the tale is that their dub ended up with a vicar, who later passed on a copy to a Dylan collector, such that, for a while, "If You Gotta Go" was in better quality than the other recordings.

The BBC almost certainly made an audio of the TV broadcast and it was a copy of this that most likely went to Dylan's music publishers. That better quality recording has not circulated, although an audio recording made through a Redefussion broadcast has circulated. Redefussion offered an early form of cable in some limited areas of the UK at the time and someone made an audio recording of this.

The other thing to mention is that Dylan attempted a recording session with members of John Mayall's band (including Clapton!) in London in mid-May 1965. It was not successful but "If You Gotta Go" was attempted and among those who attended the session was Paul Jones of the Manfreds, so I suspect they knew about the song before they saw Dylan perform it on TV.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 13:54:26 CET 2014 from (67.189.178.48)

Posted by:

Norman Clancy

Subject: What if??

What if.. some of the songs on the Basement Tapes are from sessions from the Henry Glover Sessions? What if Levon was the one who knew where the Henry Glover tapes were and let Other People know how to retrieve them? What if Levon owned a 50% interest in those tapes? What if Levon was given a list of tracks that were on those tapes and who played on them? What if Levon was offered a ridiculously small amount of money to sign away his interest in the tapes? What if Levon said no to the to the money.I am sure if this really happened he said many other things but I will leave it at that. What if other people besides Levon spoke to someone with an interest in the Henry Glover Sessions and the calls were recorded and the tapes are in a file up at The Barn? I guess life is full of "what if's". Here is a question that I will put out there for comments. What if the above "what if's" are true. Nahhhhhhh. Maybe some day we will find out. Perhaps Sebastian can shed some light on this topic. There are a few more what if's but gotta catch a train.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 10:36:10 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Dylan & Manfred

I don’t believe the Dylan statements that none of the songs were meant to be serious efforts. The acetate demos are all close together in the middle. Having just finished writing the Manfred Mann Toppermost, I reckon a pivotal moment was when the unreleased “If You Gotta Go” reached UK #2 in the Manfred Mann version in the autumn of 1965. They had seen him do it on a live TV broadcast and picked up on it … his UK publicist was their manager. Apparently Dylan was impressed, as he had been with their With God On Our Side. That was on an EP that got into the singles Top Ten. But Manfred Mann were doing it with stuff he’d never issued with If You Gotta Go. Then in August 1966, Manfred Mann took Just Like A Woman Top Ten. I reckon he thought, hey, I can get away from the hassle, enjoy my family and become Goffin & King. Write the songs for other people to make into records. And the acetate did that extremely well.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 09:56:20 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

BTW, with the price guarantee (price on dispatch) that's what a lot would pay anyway.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 09:31:04 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Simon, just checked. The complete BTs are back down to £100 this morning and they are not showing a shortage, so it looks like a one day blip, a classic Record Store Day price rise on Day Two, then back to normal. Even the download has dropped £1.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 09:09:47 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Simon, I just got a 0.65p amazon "price guarantee" refund on my pre-ordered complete set. The huge price is partly down to the very elaborate (and wonderful) packaging. I know full well the cost difference between the physical creation of CDs and elaborate card boxes with all sorts of hinges and openings. I'd think you'd need to cost in £30 to get any kind of return on the packaging. I assume they paid Elliot Landy a royalty for all the photos too.

Of course the issue is that you're buying the packaging, as with Another Self Portrait, whether you want it or not. The packaging here is more desirable than the parade of foreign 45 sleeves last time. They might say that they're offering a full download for £36 which is quite a bit below the normal new release 6 CD download price, so if you don't want the packaging, you can actually get it for a lot less … and put it on your own CDs for listening conventionally. £6 a CD.

Normally I'd say you're then suffering MP3 quality instead of the full thing, but in spite of the spectacular clean up, you're not looking at a full symphony orchestra or a state of the art recording. They've squeezed a great deal more out of it than you've heard before, but you're still talking about a quarter inch tape master, sometimes at 3.75 IPS, so the MP3 drop won't compromise as badly as it often does … those who streamed One To Many Mornings were knocked out by the quality, and on a computer system,which implies the download is a bargain.

I'm thrilled I got the artifact, but the music is also accessible at a fair price.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 05:32:57 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Sorry, I see no "valid points" in that article.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 04:17:01 CET 2014 from (81.154.66.73)

Posted by:

Simon

Peter - thanks, I hope you're right. I was cheesed off but I'll just assume that this isn't a limited run - there are a few rumours floating around but I don't recall seeing anything to that effect in the last few months. I was also thinking of the recent Led Zep reissues ... Jimmy Page is often portrayed as a tight-fisted martinet yet the single disc versions are £11 and the deluxe ones cost £13. Two quid extra for all the bonus material. A very fair deal.

I've just become sceptical about the whole 'super deluxe box' thing. Even The Band "Live at the Academy of Music 1971". I haven't bought it yet and I'm considering just getting the 2CD set for the Bob Clearmountain mixes. I honestly never thought I'd say this but there's a whiff of something indecent about that five disc set, and that's no disrespect to Sebastian and Robbie. To me it's overpriced for what it is. Maybe I'm getting older and my priorities have changed.

A question for everybody on the Guestbook: how essential do you consider the soundboard mixes on Discs 3 and 4? Am I missing out on much by only getting the 2CD set? (I'm not interested in the fifth disc)


Entered at Wed Nov 5 04:12:24 CET 2014 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: No Depression

Jed, No Depression isn't a publication any more. Now it's a website. I'm not a hugely knowledgeable computer person, so I don't know if that means anyone can publish anything, whether there are any editors to review subject matter and offer advice, or what.

I'm very glad that Bob W's comment has survived deletion so far. Well, it should. It was very fair and quite mild, considering. I hope Luke Bowden takes it to heart, and does a little research before he "rushes into print", next time.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 03:28:53 CET 2014 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Bob W.

Thanks for your comments.This was first time I saw the article.Very offensive comment in so many ways.I was shocked No Depression would permit their publication to print this comment.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 02:40:39 CET 2014 from (76.69.46.244)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: and again....

Bob W: Way to go! An apology from the writer is in order. (Kevin; thanks for pointing it out. It does my heart good.)


Entered at Wed Nov 5 01:40:30 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter v

Thanks to PSB for a great piece. Jan has a full link under What's New.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 01:28:37 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Simon, I suspect this is a temporary shortage indicating that amazon have virtually sold them all - my local HMV had sold out by 10 on Monday. Judging by past Dylan items that sold out fast, they'll press more and the price will return to normal. For example the Record Store Day 45 of Wigwam flew off the shelves and it was unobtainable by 9.30 am, but now every vinyl store seems to have a couple.

BTW, I guess the 3 LP set is just the 2 CD set. I assume that cleaning up the tapes meant enough digital work on the signal to make analogue purism over the vinyl version unnecessary.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 00:44:45 CET 2014 from (81.154.66.73)

Posted by:

Simon

Subject: Basement Tapes Complete - Rip Off Pricing

Amazon UK has raised the price from £99 to £157 within a matter of hours. Spin CDs has it for £199.

Dylan has traditionally been touted as a folk artist, right? 'Folk' means people, as I understand it. I'm completely gutted and disillusioned at this point. How the fuck am I supposed to afford this? At best that equates to £26 per disc. This is some shameful exploitative shit.


Entered at Wed Nov 5 00:44:18 CET 2014 from (70.53.44.146)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Then again....

.......if Jan Faust is actually Jan Hoiberg then bob w might be ray pence then this whole Basement Tapes thing might not have ever happened! "Down in the Groove" for Volume 11 shouted the curators!


Entered at Wed Nov 5 00:34:24 CET 2014 from (70.53.44.146)

Posted by:

Kevin J

For those keeping score, just checked the No Depression article that our Jan H linked and nice to see that our pal bob w has written in to object to the disparaging description of RR as well…..so far , that comment is still up.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 22:32:45 CET 2014 from (74.203.77.122)

Posted by:

Jon Lyness

Jan, nice job on the BTs. Now get back to work!

;)


Entered at Tue Nov 4 22:17:00 CET 2014 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Good for you, Ray! That slur was especially beyond the pale, I thought, and he needed to be taken to task for it. Too bad they took down your comment - should have left it up in the interest of fair play.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 22:06:11 CET 2014 from (129.237.250.161)

Posted by:

ray pence

Thank you very much, JT! And thank you Peter Stone Brown! Beautiful statement. No wonder, coming from someone who's worked with Alejandro Escovedo!


Entered at Tue Nov 4 22:04:08 CET 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Censorship (if we don't like it, we'll erase it - swill is a 5 letter word)

Ray: well done! Someone needs to respond to stereotype comments which are negative. Someone needs to deal with 'rehash' when it has no relevance.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 21:57:01 CET 2014 from (129.237.250.161)

Posted by:

ray pence

Location: lawrence kansas, the heartland of flyover country

Subject: no depression, no dissent

Lisa and Band guestbookers: yep, the administrator deleted my comment. I didn't use any foul language but i did call the "review" swill. Mostly what I said was that the writer rehashed a bunch of irrelevant disputes that have been done to death and put a false title on his post. I also took him to task for his crack about Robbie R being a "Mohawk Jew" who "scalped" people like John Simon.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 21:45:34 CET 2014 from (79.160.47.202)

Posted by:

jh

Web: My link

Just found out I am the Jan H. working with Garth to get the BT Complete out there. Thanks, No Depression writer person. They got the last name wrong, though.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 21:12:56 CET 2014 from (72.78.37.180)

Posted by:

PSB

Thanks for your points Bill.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 20:01:51 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

JT: Thanks for the link to PSB's fine article. A couple of specific comments have I.

PSB: 1) I hope you meant the Hawks still didn't know Dylan all that well, not that they didn't know each other after all those years together. 2) Maybe "I'm t-boned and punctured" is from the PoV of a car, which can be a bomb and - if the owner / driver is lucky - calm. 3) I agree that Dylan was likely drawing on Ian and Sylvia's "Royal Canal". Even if all versions sounded the same, it's worth noting that "Royal Canal" is on the same Ian and Sylvia album as "Four Strong Winds" and "Spanish Is A Loving Tongue" - meaning that Bob would've had to pull out just one LP when introducing the songs to our guys. Also, if you haven't read John Einarson's "Four Strong Winds: Ian and Sylvia", you might - even if only for Suze Rotolo's reflections on Bob's admiration for Ian. 4) Jan Haust is a first-rate archivist, but he would never claim to be an engineer. The engineer on this project, for which he deserves great credit, was Peter Moore.



Entered at Tue Nov 4 19:54:48 CET 2014 from (129.42.208.182)

Posted by:

Bob F

Location: HV

Subject: PSB Review/Article

PSB great job! Your really showing off this week. Please keep them coming.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 19:30:11 CET 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: yes, Depression

I had the same experience with the 'No Depression' article, being unable to find the relevant comment.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 19:22:54 CET 2014 from (173.251.40.130)

Posted by:

Tim Tam

Subject: BT Complete

I'm curious about the production credits on the new release. Could someone who already has a copy please enlighten us? Thanks.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 19:21:58 CET 2014 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: No Depression

Ray, I followed the link you suggested, but there was only one comment listed and that had been taken down. Was that yours?

Wish I'd seen it, because that "review" shouldn't go unchallenged. People who know, know better, but those who aren't as familiar with The Band will read it and take it at face value.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 18:32:38 CET 2014 from (68.70.61.190)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: BT

I want the Band basement tracks now. I hope RR and Garth are working on this. Sebastian - can you give some insight on this?


Entered at Tue Nov 4 18:06:41 CET 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: BTs from a musician who can write

Do yourself a favour: Read Peter Stone Brown - Counterpunch - for what the BTs are really all about

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/11/04/dylan-still-down-in-the-basement-but-finally-out-of-the-vault/


Entered at Tue Nov 4 17:35:39 CET 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: metaphors

...with a superb 'ERA'.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 17:03:44 CET 2014 from (67.84.79.218)

Posted by:

Jeff A.

The opener, and the closer. You nailed it Ray.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 17:01:46 CET 2014 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: One Too Many Mornings/Neil

Finally listened to that cut-just incredible to hear this and eagerly looking forward to hearing the complete Basement Tapes.Will order as as soon as I figure out how to use my amazon gift card!Also,Peter mentioned the Neil Young album.Many critics seem to enjoy the acoustic version better so I was pleased to see Peter's comments.I believe the album should arrive today.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 16:23:51 CET 2014 from (24.124.82.172)

Posted by:

ray pence

Location: the heartland/flyover country/lawrence kansas

Subject: RICHARD

not long after hearing the "new" One Too Many Mornings, i read the article on Richard in the Library on this site, the one published in 1996, and became sad.

But then, I thought, the hell with that. There is too much emphasis on Richard's "decline" of the mid- to late-1970s.

Hobo Jungle, Rags And Bones, Right as Rain, Let the Night Fall, Georgia on My Mind, The Well, The Last Waltz Suite--these are all gorgeous performances and big favorites of mine.

The Band went to Richard to open and close so many of their albums. That is important.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 16:08:54 CET 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Here At The Western World

It was "Here At The Western World" (Steely Dan) - a sign of forgetting exact titles - not good! (at least I recognized that what I wrote was incorrect after the fact).


Entered at Tue Nov 4 16:07:01 CET 2014 from (24.124.82.172)

Posted by:

ray pence

Location: the heartland/flyover country/lawrence kansas

Subject: basement tapes

good morning, band of the band's sisters and brothers!

can never have too many mornings with Richard, Rick, Robbie, Levon, Garth, and Bob!!

also--I posted a reply to that "review" of the Basement tapes on Luke's blog. if you go to the No Depression page and follow the link to the original blog post, you can read my reply.

Thank you Jan, Peter, everyone!!


Entered at Tue Nov 4 16:05:00 CET 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Music evokes memories

Peter: We all 'stumbled'. Lisa: Music and memories; there are books (I can't remember which ones/sorry) that discuss how music evokes in a way that dredging memories by choice does not. I agree with you. It is amazing to me how a song will bring back a sensitivity so clearly and how that feeling will be reproduced almost like it was that time. For me, 'Searchin' (Coasters) does it. Jackson's Point - jukebox - age 11 or 12- near Lake Simcoe. For me, 'Like A Rolling Stone" (an angry young man as a teen wanting human correction to occur). For me, "Sultans of Swing" - could there be anything that sounded better than that in 1977/78. For me "Living in the Western World" - driving my son to school in Florida where I was doing a fellowship - it still evokes that closeness to him and the warmth of Miami's mornings; For me, songs from early Pearl Jam (trying to play guitar with my sons as we muddled through (or at least I muddled, they were talented) some of those early grunge rhythms. Amazing!


Entered at Tue Nov 4 14:12:02 CET 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Richard Manuel

For me, RM status in the OQ was like GH (Beatles)... unrecognized genius in his vocal ability, overshadowed by the talents of the others (at least by those who wrote in the papers and magazines) and quietly unassuming. The talent is as the kids say (I hate this but it applies here)... awesome!


Entered at Tue Nov 4 14:09:30 CET 2014 from (174.118.11.165)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Splendid simplicity

The 'covers' for these new songs (studio, live) are coming from younger musicians, who will recognize the beauty/splendid simplicity of these newly emerged songs.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 12:00:22 CET 2014 from (76.98.218.136)

Posted by:

carmen

Location: PA

Subject: One Too Many

Was always a great song - with Richard singing along side Bob brings it to a whole new level. I can see now - the new crop new artists out there covering this one in concert the way they cover The Weight.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 09:29:50 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter

Subject: watching the waves go by …

I remember Youth Club days when "Stranger On The Shore" always took over the last dance position - I was about to say last waltz, but rather last stumble around vaguely in time to the music but actually touching after an hour of twisting or whatever. It's an instant wave of nostalgia for me too. I also know the words, though the Acker Bilk instrumental is way better than the various vocal versions … Andy Williams, The Drifters, I think.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 04:31:22 CET 2014 from (129.237.92.200)

Posted by:

ray pence

Location: the heartland/lawrence kansas

Subject: basement tapes/yes, depression

Hi everyone, it is nice to be visiting the Band site guestbook again, especially on the occasion of an important cultural event--Band and Bob Dylan music in the spotlight. Can't ever be enough of that, that is what I feel and believe.

Very, very nice to hear the version of One too many mornings on the official disc. Made me miss Richard all over again, even more. Such beauty and soul.

As to the "New Depression" article--was that supposed to be a review or what? Once again, some clown has to hit us with a bunch of news flashes--the most urgent being that cocaine use coincided with the production of the Last Waltz--gee, how relevant to the Basement Tapes, yes.

I'll move on to the Daily News article, it must be better, it doesn't get much worse than that "No Depression" swill.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 01:31:46 CET 2014 from (24.76.162.55)

Posted by:

sadavid

Subject: a much better BT review

Check Jim Farber, NY Daily News.


Entered at Tue Nov 4 00:17:01 CET 2014 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Stranger on the Shore

Joan, that song brings back floods of memories for me, too, of being a moony 12-year-old, longing for romance.

Isn't it amazing how hearing a song from long ago can immediately recreate a total sensory memory? The power of music ...


Entered at Mon Nov 3 20:23:38 CET 2014 from (74.108.29.164)

Posted by:

Joan

Subject: Acker Bilk

The link to Acker Bilk had a link to to summer place. So songs brought back my teenage years in summer camp they were on the jukebox in the rec Hall. I remember close dancing to them. We kind of lined up girls on one side and blaze on the other side of the room. Every once in a while someone would dare to go out and dance the doors opened and we all started dancing close.


Entered at Mon Nov 3 20:16:51 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Web: My link

And here's Lenny in '70, brilliant but farther back in the mix, backing the magnificent double-voiced Beverly Glenn-Copeland.


Entered at Mon Nov 3 20:10:24 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Location: Tronno
Web: My link

Subject: Lenny Breau, slumming in '61

This is likely Lenny Breau's first rock recording, from 1961 when he was still based in Winnipeg. Soon after, Lenny left Ray St Germain (his brother-in-law) to try his luck in Toronto. As we now know, his first visit here was to Ronnie Hawkins, which led to a recording session with Rick and Levon.


Entered at Mon Nov 3 19:25:56 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V: Yes, but would "No Depression" accept him as a journalist?


Entered at Mon Nov 3 18:53:17 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

I got the 6 CD set - couldn't work out what you got with the three LPs box, thought it might be just the double CD set. I think the 6 is the fun one.

On another thing, I got Storytone by Neil Young earlier in the morning and had time to listen to it before BTs arrived with the post - reviewers like the "acoustic set" but I thought the full orchestral CD vastly better. The thing is the lyrics on "Who's Gonna Stand Up?" are freshman if you're being kind, or banal if you're not. The orchestral backing is so superb he gets away with it, but strip it down to solo and it's "Ouch!"


Entered at Mon Nov 3 18:31:20 CET 2014 from (108.30.208.110)

Posted by:

Jed

Subject: Peter-Basement Tapes

Peter,did you buy cd or record? Hope you plan to share your experience listening/first impressions.Enjoy!


Entered at Mon Nov 3 18:03:02 CET 2014 from (131.137.35.74)

Posted by:

sadavid

Web: My link

Subject: everything's connected

The Fleetwoods: "(He's) The Great Imposter" 1961.


Entered at Mon Nov 3 17:29:28 CET 2014 from (63.142.158.9)

Posted by:

JQ

Subject: Acker Bilk

Don't exactly recall why, but I always connect him to Nina Mouskouri - the glasses maybe?


Entered at Mon Nov 3 17:24:34 CET 2014 from (204.138.59.92)

Posted by:

Bill M

Peter V / Rod: I don't recall having heard 'wacker' or 'wacking' used when I was in NZ in '81. Everything's connected, however, and the weekend paper had an article that mentioned that NZ now has only half as many sheep as in '82.

I didn't see much in the 'Observer' article, aside from confirmation that girls were at times allowed in Big Pink.


Entered at Mon Nov 3 17:21:58 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Unknown gems

It's going to take a LONG to absorb the BTs. On disc 1, The Fleetwood's "Mr Blue" from 1959 points forward to some of his recent choices. Love it!


Entered at Mon Nov 3 16:39:55 CET 2014 from (86.149.109.67)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland

Subject: Basement Tapes

Really looking forward to the Basement Tapes. Glad it looks good, Peter. Will be Xmas gift and I will buy it at FOPP or local shop.

Am completist, of sorts John D. Really enjoy the Bootleg series. Think 'Another Self Portrait' is brilliant.

Last month I played every Beatles album.

This month am on a Dylan odyssey (punctuated by teenage grandson's football and babysitting).

Have played this month 'Bob Dylan', 'The Freewheelin Bob Dylan', 'The Times They Are A Changing', 'Another Side of Bob Dylan', 'The Wittmark Demos' and 'Another Self Portrait'. Long way to go.

I sit and listen carefully. Really appreciate songs that I had not appreciated so much in the past. For example, 'To Ramona'.

Away to babysit for a couple of hours now!


Entered at Mon Nov 3 16:32:00 CET 2014 from (65.93.118.203)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Subject: Acker Bilk

That link takes me back, way, way back. Slow-dancing with Beverly C as she tried to teach me to dance. A lot of hormones at play here. Not fully comprehending the name Acker, some friends and I called him Billy Acker.


Entered at Mon Nov 3 15:36:25 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Web: My link

Subject: Acker Bilk RIP

RIP Acker Bilk, the first British artist to top the US and UK charts simultaneously. Link to "Stranger on The Shore."


Entered at Mon Nov 3 15:17:20 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: BTs Complete

Arrived half an hour ago.Packaging and picture are superb …


Entered at Mon Nov 3 15:06:30 CET 2014 from (203.160.29.153)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: Defending the Liverpool Way 2014

Al: your boys are really bad at the back. My grandmother who had one leg a few cms shorter than the other could do a better job of defending. Were she still alive that is. : )


Entered at Mon Nov 3 15:03:46 CET 2014 from (203.160.29.153)

Posted by:

Fred

Subject: Ontario's hillbillies

Peter V: They're mostly found in and around this small hick town called Toronto. I don't know if you've heard of the place? Doubt it's even on any map of Ontario. ; )


Entered at Mon Nov 3 14:24:11 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: Dunc

Thanks for that interesting article Dunc. I've heard that was Dylan's take on the Basement Tapes for some time. Let's face it. This was a group of musicians fooling and tooling around songs. They were in a way demos not meant to be heard. However after 50 years of mystery and rumors. It's hard to turn down.

I am a completist. I will buy this box set. As I mentioned before this is "The Holy Grail."


Entered at Mon Nov 3 14:21:42 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Interesting link, Dunc. So the Band (minus Levon) were "wild hillbillies". You get a lot of hillbillies in Ontario, do you?


Entered at Mon Nov 3 14:07:23 CET 2014 from (86.149.109.67)

Posted by:

Dunc

Location: Scotland
Web: My link

Subject: Basement Tapes

Interesting to see the Basement Tapes making the news pages of the Observer yesterday. Interesting comments through the eyes of Sally Grossman


Entered at Mon Nov 3 08:40:21 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Would the NZ meaning be connected to "wacking off"? I guess this is a "minced use" such as "frigging" or "fecking". e.g. sounds very like a rude word.


Entered at Mon Nov 3 07:43:11 CET 2014 from (219.89.244.239)

Posted by:

Rod

Does the Wackers have any alternative meaning outside of NZ?


Entered at Sun Nov 2 17:53:34 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

Web: My link

And, as an adjunct to John D's link, Ms. Osbourne in a glorious moment.

I did spend time in Nashville writing with Rand(y) Bishop. Tremendously talented and a good guy.


Entered at Sun Nov 2 15:17:36 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Web: My link

Subject: Trigger Hippy

Track is called Rise Up Singing. Enjoying the new band Trigger Hippy. Joan Osborne vocals, Jackie Greene on vocals and B3 and Steve Gorman of The Black Crowes are 3 of its members. There is a track on the album called Adelaide. It has been reviewed as Band-esque. Check 'em out. Great B3.


Entered at Sun Nov 2 12:20:52 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Al, on the other hand, I open the paper to see Southampton at #2 in the Premier, and Bournemouth at #2 in the Championship. I suspect that's the best what used to be "Hampshire" until 1970 has done in years, if ever. I'm excluding Portsmouth from Hampshire as I never liked them. I reckon I'll cut out today's league tables. I can't see us sustaining it!


Entered at Sun Nov 2 10:43:16 CET 2014 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: The 'payback'

Kev/Pete

Shanks said football is more important than life or death.

Never has that sentiment - in its sporting sense of course - rung more pertinently nor resonated more depressingly than it has whilst witnessing and experiencing first hand this season's lethargic grind in contrast to last season's exhilarating joy.

To say I'm really suffering doesn't come near to capturing my current gloom.

As for the Wackers pete. I don't recall it but Alison Steadman as you say is always worth a look.

The term wacker meaning Liverpudlian had only a brief shelf life as I recall around the time The beatles were emerging. It stemmed from a curious combination of your own name 'Peter' and pea soup.

Pea soup was known as peawack soup and anyone named peter was thus called peawack which then became 'wacker' - actually this is getting more boring than our team at the moment but I may as well finish - I had two cousins named Peter both of whom were know as 'Wacker'. I haven't the foggiest idea how it was then extended to cover anyone from the city.

:-0)


Entered at Sun Nov 2 10:02:02 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: The Wackers

This was also the title of a 70s (?) British sitcom set in Liverpool, with stuff about Everton v Liverpool rivalry. I have no memory of it whatsoever, good or bad, but looked it up and the great Alison Steadman was in it, so as amazon have it for £5, curiosity tempts me to take a look.


Entered at Sun Nov 2 04:58:02 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.155)

Posted by:

Bill M

Kevin J: About a year ago I saw Segarini get up to sing (extremely well) "Chains" with the Fraser-Daley duo at their weekly Wednesday gig at the Intersteer on Roncies. I took it that he was a semi-regular. Our friend Pat B once posted that he'd recently done some writing with Randy Bishop. Pacemaker released several of Segarini's post-Dudes projects on CD a few years ago.

PSB: Is that your pal Van peddling bean sprouts?


Entered at Sat Nov 1 22:36:24 CET 2014 from (99.244.8.134)

Posted by:

John D

Subject: The Wackers / Bob Segarini / Kevin J

Kevin. I see Bob on a regular basis.


Entered at Sat Nov 1 20:32:32 CET 2014 from (79.160.47.202)

Posted by:

jh

testing...


Entered at Sat Nov 1 17:02:08 CET 2014 from (24.114.69.209)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Web: My link

LINKED: The Whackers article that Landmark referred to. Readers of The Gazette are fortunate to still have Bernard Perusse around.


Entered at Sat Nov 1 16:17:37 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Al, is this Situs Judi a good buy? Do Liverpool really need another striker? Wouldn't it be better to foster more homegrown talent?


Entered at Sat Nov 1 14:50:00 CET 2014 from (24.114.69.209)

Posted by:

Kevin J

Subject: Sounds life a Faces song but we did know it wasn't you Al.....actually...

.....Situs Judi was just worried about being labelled "overly generous".......so all of that was just code for "I really miss Luis Suárez and rest easy knowing that Mishra the Spellcaster is hard at work to bring the little chomper back"

Landmark......great to see your name here. Enjoy the day.


Entered at Sat Nov 1 13:24:48 CET 2014 from (77.102.201.158)

Posted by:

Al Edge

Subject: Situs Judi Poker Online Terbaik

Just like to point out that the post from Situs Judi Poker Online Terbaik isn't me.

It may well resemble my stuff but it ain't me. Honest ter god.

:-0)


Entered at Sat Nov 1 12:48:10 CET 2014 from (70.80.237.104)

Posted by:

Landmark

Location: Montreal

Subject: The Wackers

As posters may know, it's Breeders Cup day. A holiday of certain importance here at Stately Landmark Manor.

As posters of a certain vintage and of a certain geographical locale remember, a power pop group known as The Wackers. Happy to say that the Montreal Gazette has published a great article on them, their impact on the local scene, and of the local scene on them.


Entered at Sat Nov 1 10:44:56 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

Subject: Pack off!

Do you get the feeling that the sub-continent is just about to be blocked?


Entered at Sat Nov 1 09:24:22 CET 2014 from (82.69.47.175)

Posted by:

Peter V

First e-mail this morning. "Your order for the basement tapes has been dispatched" delivery expected Monday. Hope that's true - a CD I ordered first class last week arrived three days after the "expected date" - the British postal service really is crap.


Entered at Sat Nov 1 07:53:58 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: BT

'New Life for the Basement Tapes: A Modern American Epic' - A somewhat better read from the same site. (Oct. 30, 2014)


Entered at Sat Nov 1 07:25:42 CET 2014 from (184.66.134.56)

Posted by:

JT

Location: Victoria and Toronto intermittently

Subject: Carelessness - the true meaning of the word

It is a very sad article with errors in so many areas- misrepresentations of people, poor choices of words, grammatical errors, dredging - so much more. It is important to identify literary poverty and call it out for what it is. No care in the written word is sheer careLESSness. (literary 'horror' - appropriate for Halloween). When will they ever learn?


Entered at Sat Nov 1 06:42:12 CET 2014 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Bill, I should take a page from your book, and chill a bit. I wasn't even going to mention the misinterpretation of background information, the grammatical errors, misplaced punctuation, etc. etc. I think you're being generous giving a Grade 7 rating.

When I looked up "No Depression" I found that it was a well-respected magazine that had ceased publication in 2008 and was now a website, with all that implies.

I think we are living in a unique time in history, where people have the ability to voice opinion, give vent, opine, interpret events according to their own viewpoints, and everything is more or less served up on the same platter. Things get repeated until they are taken as fact, when in reality often it's a matter of someone reading something, twisting it to serve their own viewpoints, and then regurgitating it as fact.

Politicians are adept at this tactic - repeat an untruth, inuendo, outright lie often enough, and it becomes accepted as truth. I suppose this is the face of history, and who knows what really happened?


Entered at Sat Nov 1 06:11:58 CET 2014 from (108.88.110.210)

Posted by:

Pat B

As usual, Bill M is overly generous.

Thanks to PSB for the real deal.


Entered at Sat Nov 1 05:37:15 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.158)

Posted by:

Bill M

Lisa: You're right, and there are a number of other lapses. Still, it's pretty damn good for a grade 7 history project.


Entered at Sat Nov 1 05:03:03 CET 2014 from (174.1.247.160)

Posted by:

Lisa

Subject: Luke Bowden

Joe J. - no, I don't think you misread the Jan allusion.

But am I being overly sensitive thinking that there is a doubly offensive racial slur in that review?


Entered at Sat Nov 1 03:43:43 CET 2014 from (24.108.1.255)

Posted by:

BONK

Location: Cabbagetown/Saltspring Island

Subject: PSB

Great post! Let's have some more.


Entered at Sat Nov 1 01:39:59 CET 2014 from (65.93.118.203)

Posted by:

Mike Nomad

Subject: PSB

Thanks for posting. Great yarn.


Entered at Sat Nov 1 01:28:16 CET 2014 from (68.171.246.155)

Posted by:

Bill M

Subject: Halloween - night of the undead

Stan L: A nice surprise! Welcome back, or have you been lurking all century?


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