The Band Guestbook, February 2002

Posted on Thu Feb 28 23:14:42 CET 2002 from (12.33.126.141)

John W.

Calvin - He's too busy fighting evil doers. Or maybe he's too busy counting the cash he swindled. I don't have the answers, and I'm not taking a "pro" or "con" position, I'm just saying let's have some facts before the accusations start to fly.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 22:39:21 CET 2002 from du-tele3-039.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.39)

Peter Viney

1) RIP Spike Milligan. A true master of absurd comedy.

2) Bob Crewe: "Music to watch girls by" is good grandma (thanks, Spike) while "Music by which to watch girls" is pedantic nonsense (as Winston Churchill so elegantly said. No prepositions at the end of a sentence is a rule up with which I will not put, or words to the same effect). Bob Crew did 'MTWGB' at the end of the Barberella OST session to use up spare time. Not a bad idea, as it turned out. I still seek the Bob Crewe Generation albums (I have Barberella).

Posted on Thu Feb 28 22:26:54 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Anagram for Enron: "R none"

Reasons why I, speaking for myself, would want to discuss Enron here in the guestbook -- there are none.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 22:19:40 CET 2002 from (64.80.240.29)

Diamond Lil

Al: That was beautiful! Thanks for sharing.

Have a good night everyone.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 22:18:00 CET 2002 from spider-wq063.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.183)

Calvin

John W, while your quite right about the track record of some of Clinton's associate, youll find the Reagan administration how more people convicted by a fairly large margin, greed is both a Liberal and COnservative problem. I suppose when the vaults are open to you it is difficult not to step in. I don't understand Cheney's problem with revealing what went on at his meeting with Enron. I for one wouldnt see what the crime was if Cheney said Enron had a ton of input in our energy problem, suggesting we put in some ideas that allowed energy companies to make a ton of money so they would expand and put more people to work. I dont always agree with that but isnt that pretty much the Republican theory of economics? SO why is CHeney holding out?

Posted on Thu Feb 28 21:41:46 CET 2002 from (12.33.126.141)

John W.

Jeffrey, I don't know what you think this Army guy did, other than working for Enron, but even if he did anything wrong, how does that tarnish Bush or Cheney? You asked why I keep bringing up Clinton. Here's why: When Bubba's close associates and business partners (see Webster Hubbell, Jim & Susan McDougal, former Gov. Jim Guy Tucker) were CONVICTED of crimes, you (liberals) said any attempt to assoiciate the "smell" with Clinton was unfair and nothing but innuendo and smear. So even if this Army guy IS is guilty of something -- which BTW is not the case, he has not even been indicted, has he? -- by the logic used by Clinton's defenders, nobody should be implicating Bush or Cheney without direct evidence. Unless, of course, what's OK for liberals is off limits for conservatives.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 21:38:38 CET 2002 from cache-bas-hsi.cableinet.co.uk (62.31.224.1)

Al Edge

Reading the beautiful words in Lil's post reminded me of a poem a mate of mine - Dave Kirby - wrote a few days after. I still cannot read it right through without pausing. Hope it's ok to post it.

A DAY IN NEW YORK

It's the break of dawn on a New York morn

As the streetlights fade away

A songbird sings and prunes her wings

As she greets a brand new day.

She feels so proud and sings out loud

To a clear blue Autumn sky

And the brown leaves fall with her morning call

As a gentle breeze floats by.

High above the ground she glances down

To a park bench way below

There’s an old man there who’s befriended her

And each morning feeds her so.

With his crumbs of bread he has kept her fed

Since the early days of spring

And he makes his way to the park each day

Just to hear his songbird sing.

Not too far away through the mists of day

Man's mountains scrape the sky

And nature cowers at these mighty towers

A sight for any eye.

They're the giant gates to the United States

Such a famous skyline view

And they stand so tall like a prison wall

Up against the sky so blue.

There’s a heart that beats on the New York streets

It's a pulse that never fades

But that heart was broke in the flames and smoke

At the Central World of Trades.

It was nearly nine in New York time

When the world would hold its breath

Where the World Trades flow they were not to know

That today they’d trade in death.

When the deadly shame of evil came

From out of the morning skies

And the wrath it brings with its devils wings

And cold murder in its eyes.

They came through the air without a care

In spiralling deathly dives

In their twisted mind they hate all mankind

The most innocent of lives.

In a deafening crash of shattering glass

Two explosions shook the world

On Manhattans streets there was disbelief

As the horror was unfurled.

Some ran so shocked as the buildings rocked

While others stood and gazed

As the firemen crews who’d heard the news

Came rushing to their aid.

These heroic folk clawed through the smoke

But their mission soon was cursed

From the flames of Hell came a deathly smell

As Satan did his worst.

An endless sorrow the scene to follow

On this cursed September day

As the mighty towers in a few short hours

Cried a tear and then gave way.

Such an awful sight when a thing of might

Comes crumbling to its knees

But it's magnified when so many died

Midst the terror, screams and pleas.

So many folk wore death's dark cloak

Neath stone and twisted steel

And the sunlight strays to a blacked out haze

In a scene that's so surreal.

As the sirens wail debris drops like hail

Through an ocean's fallout dust

As Manhattan shakes like those mighty 'quakes

From within the Earth’s deep crust

Two smouldering wrecks are all that's left

Of the towers whose fate was doomed

And a nation died as the whole world cried

For the innocent entombed.

As the evening draws the fire still roars

Bright orange 'cross the sea

There are tearful eyes as a lady cries

The Statue Liberty.

Stood on her Isle for all this while

With her head held tall and proud

From across the bay where the innocent lay

You would swear that head was bowed.

As shadows fall bare hands still maul

To the flashing bright blue light

In their hearts there’s pain for they dig in vain

In their search throughout death's night.

It's the break of dawn on a New York morn

But there’s eerie quiet today

For the birds don't sing or prune a wing

As they greet this brand new day.

Above the ground they make no sound

In Central Park's tall trees

As the morning dew makes patterns through

The dust upon the leaves.

Then a bird flies down towards the ground

To the old man's empty bench

In the smoke filled air which is everywhere

There’s an awful deathly stench.

But the bird never hears the old mans tears

In his home where he quietly weeps

So off she flies as the whole world cries

For the city that never sleeps.

And she’ll never know and thank God so

For she’d never understand

Why Nature's hand is bit by man's

Inhumanity to man.

Dave Kirby, Liverpool.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 21:28:14 CET 2002 from (4.20.68.20)

Rich

Was it only me, or were the lyrics to Dylan's number last night almost completely unintelligible? I've noticed that before with him, and since he's the greatest lyricist of his time, it's kind of a shame.

Regarding outside projects of his, wasn't there some talk a year or so ago about his hosting a musical variety show, or something similar, on HBO or another cable outlet? Always sounded like a weird, but intriguing idea, and I was wondering if anyone knew whatever became of it.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 19:43:03 CET 2002 from sdn-ap-002castocp0531.dialsprint.net (63.187.10.23)

Jeffrey

Bush and Cheney, no knowledge of Enron financial matters? Check this out! compare today's bio of Army Secretary White ... http://www.army.mil/leaders/Secarmy/bio.htm ... to the "Aug 10, 2001" version that you can find here http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.army.mil/leaders/Secarmy/bio.htm

Posted on Thu Feb 28 19:37:17 CET 2002 from spider-tr011.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.176)

Bob Silkowitz

Greetings. Just discovered this site and chat room today. Yesterday a friend of mine and I were talking about the best concerts we've ever seen, and discussed being at the first show by The Band at the Filmore East in New York when we were much younger. We were amazed at how much we remembered about the concert because it was so incredible. Anyway, I'd love to get a copy of the show on CD or tape if I could. I have a lot to trade, or I can buy it. Please...if there is a copy out there somewhere, please e-mail me at RSilkowitz@aol.com I would even like to get leads on how I might be able to locate a copy of it. Thanks to everyone.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 19:25:13 CET 2002 from 1cust111.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.92.111)

Crabgrass

Good to see the legendary Bob Crewe mentioned in the GB!! His classic "Music To Watch Girls By" by the Bob Crewe Generation is one of my all time faves although I'm not sure the phrase is grammatically correct. Bob also co-wrote the great song "Can't Take My Eyes Off You" a big hit for Frankie Valli. I have always thought this would have been a great tune for Richard to have covered.

Also, good to see Mahatma Gandhi mentioned here.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 17:21:51 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Last night, after Jon Stewart's first of many seemingly endless inane attempts at humor, the Grammy awards show got down to music. That current group of scantily-clad divas strutted through "Lady Marmalade", a song first made famous back in 1975 by Labelle (Patti Labelle, Nona Hendryx & Sarah Dash). Ms. Labelle herself even made a cameo appearance during the production number.

I was reminded that, back in 1974, when Labelle began planning their next album, which would be called "Nightbirds", producer extraordinaire Allen Toussaint was brought on board the project. It was Mr. Toussaint who suggested that Labelle record "Lady Marmalade", a song which had been written by Bob Crewe & Kenny Nolan and previously recorded by Mr. Nolan's group The Eleventh Hour.

Mr. Toussaint's savy choice of "Lady Marmalade", along with Labelle's electrified performance, created a perfect anthem of sassy funkiness. The song became a hit and helped revive Labelle's career.

Last night while watching, I kept hoping that Ms. Labelle would, at some point, push one of those young girls aside to really let loose and show them how it's really done. Later, Bob Dylan, Ralph Stanley & the "O Brother" crew did exactly that.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 16:32:44 CET 2002 from 0-1pool33-135.nas1.cincinnati1.oh.us.da.qwest.net (63.232.33.135)

Jenny T

All I have to say after watching Dylan at the Grammys last night is what a hot little band he has, but I am worried about his voice but maybe he is just hoarse from concerts. I hope he has quit smoking.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 16:30:54 CET 2002 from dialin-1766-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.7.242)

Gene

Check out the Web Page link, above, for the article: Bob Dylan May Take Film Role (AP)

Posted on Thu Feb 28 16:20:16 CET 2002 from (205.245.52.66)

carmen

Fox News reported that Dylan is making a motion picture. Anyone out there know what this is about?

Posted on Thu Feb 28 14:40:28 CET 2002 from (205.211.160.1)

Jerry Tenenbaum

Someone please help! I am always happy to see Bob Dylan win an award, even though I don't put much stock in these things. However, someone please define for me "Contemporary Folk Album". If a person known to have been a "folk" singer for some part of his career (say Pete Seeger) does an album of Latin music, will his album go into the "Contemporary Folk" category or the "Latin" category. If a classical cello player (say Yo Yo Ma) decides to do an album of ELO covers in a contemporary format and it is highly regarded, will it turn up in -classical- or in -rock-. I hate categorization to begin with, but if there is going to be categorization, would Bob Dylan's album not 'fit' better into say -blues- than -folk-. I think the brain trust should look more critically at what they are doing if they are going to do it. The credibility (such as it is) of such an organization depends upon care being taken in making these categorizations accurately. Many already have trouble with all of this to begin with. To compound the problem like this is unfathomable. Why don't the Recording Industry members correct this?

Posted on Thu Feb 28 14:20:07 CET 2002 from host-65-164-8-8.co.erie.ny.us (65.164.8.8)

G-MAN

Well,,,,after watching 7 minutes of the Grammy's,it was time to change the channel!!! Blizzard or not, I am packing for a trip to NYC to see Jim Wieder and the Honky Tonk Gurus!!!

Posted on Thu Feb 28 13:13:30 CET 2002 from spider-wc083.proxy.aol.com (205.188.193.58)

Lee

Hello to Brother Jan and friends. Checkin' out Bandland. I've just been reading about the Philips DVD Recorder which transfers VHS tapes to DVD, something I'm rather eager to do. Re. Life expectancy of CDs. What about VHS tapes and DVDs?

Posted on Thu Feb 28 12:08:13 CET 2002 from 64-80-53-193-static.surferz.net (64.80.53.193)

Lil Again

Now that was fast! Thank you to my good friend down South who sent me the lyrics to the tune I asked about. I'm posting them here.. since I think they're beautiful..and something we can all relate to.(And btw.. does anyone know how to make paragraphs in something when it's cut and pasted? Thanks.)

Where were you when the world stop turning on that September day Were you in the yard with your wife and children Or working on some stage in L.A. Did you stand there in shock at the sight of that black smoke Rising against that blue sky Did you shout out in anger, in fear for your neighbor Or did you just sit down and cry Did you weep for the children who lost their dear loved ones And pray for the ones who don't know Did you rejoice for the people who walked from the rubble And sob for the ones left below Did you burst out in pride for the red, white and blue And the heroes who died just doin' what they do Did you look up to heaven for some kind of answer And look at yourself and what really matters Chorus: I'm just a singer of simple songs I'm not a real political man I watch CNN but I'm not sure I could Tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran But I know Jesus and I talk to God And I remember this from when I was young Faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us And the greatest is love Verse: Where were you when the world stop turning on that September day Teaching a class full of innocent children Or driving down some cold interstate Did you feel guilty 'cause you're a survivor In a crowded room did you feel alone Did you call up your mother and tell her you loved her Did you dust off that Bible at home Did you open your eyes, hope it never happened And you close your eyes and not go to sleep Did you notice the sunset the first time in ages Or speak to some stranger on the street Did you lay down at night and think of tomorrow Go out and buy you a gun Did you turn off that violent old movie you're watchin' And turn on "I Love Lucy" reruns Did you go to a church and hold hands with some strangers Stand in line and give your own blood Did you just stay home and cling tight to your family Thank God you had somebody to love Repeat Chorus ©2001 EMI Music / Tri-Angels Music (ASCAP)

Posted on Thu Feb 28 11:29:25 CET 2002 from 64-80-53-193-static.surferz.net (64.80.53.193)

Diamond Lil

Any country music fans out there? I watched the Grammy's last night (mostly because I was awake waiting for my 10 year old to come home from night snow tubing)..and was very impressed by a tune country singer Alan Jackson did called "Where were you when the world stopped turning". Can anyone out there send me the lyrics? Thanks. It would be much appreciated.

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 07:45:29 CET 2002 from hse-mtl-ppp68867.qc.sympatico.ca (64.229.186.232)

brown eyed girl

"Really disliked school, disliked groups, disliked authority.....I WAS MADE FOR ROCK AND ROLL"...

He wanted to learn how to play guitar by playing like Carl Perkins....When he was told that it was only three chords....He said show me....first and last music lesson.....His musical agenda was the written word anyway....Who else could mention the sword of Damocles in a song or could quote Yeats in concert??....Well.....maybe one other...;-D.....He would watch the "Ozzie and Harriett" show to listen to the band at the end of the show....James Burton....Recorded first record at 14!....LEAVE HER FOR ME....JADES....He likes to use the custom-made amps by Michael Soldano who states...."He has the BEST ears in the business. He can hear subtleties in tone that most people never hear. He is BEYOND a perfectionist in terms of sound."...

Cupid, Peter Viney and Richard Patterson....Since I will be looking for his office in Soho this weekend I will remind you now that it's his Birthday on Saturday....LOUUUU.......60.....STILL ROCKIN'.....WRITIN'.....PLAYIN'.....PUSHIN' THE ROCK AND ROLL ENVELOPE....Jeffffffrey! I bet your fave is SWEET JANE......;-D.....or how about Emmylouuuuu Harris and Cheryl Crow singing Lou's PALE BLUE EYES?...:-D...Btw...Agesilaus will be 14 on the same day!!....Their temperaments are sooooo similar....;-D

Posted on Thu Feb 28 07:37:41 CET 2002 from dialup-209.245.239.139.dial1.dallas1.level3.net (209.245.239.139)

csiron

Concerns about pervasive disc rot are overblown -- as they have been since the invention of the CD.

I recently ran across a truly "rotted" CD pressed in 1988, and believe it or not, the manufacturer (British) still replaced it, though the title has long been out of print. In fact, the exchange gave me quite a collectible because the disc (a Springsteen single) came from a fully ruined batch and most people just pitched their discs because they didn't know they could turn them in.

Anyway, CD rot almost always comes down to chemical interactions of inks with the disc and seldom has anything to do with moderate moisture or heat or a reasonable amount of anything else. The problem is not inherent to the CD.

In the case of the most famous "rotted" discs (of which admittedly there were many thousands), the problem was made worse by contact with the cardboard sleeves that many of the discs (often singles) were packaged in. It seems the inks interacted with the cardboard, and the deterioration was accelerated. And, by the way, the destruction happened pretty quickly, so if you haven't had problems with your older discs, you're not likely to.

Manufacturers know now what works and what doesn't. I would never swear that no discs made today rot, but I can say I have more than 5,000 CDs that I've accumulated since about 1984, and I've only had that one bad disc, which I bought cheap on eBay a few months ago, fully aware of the problem with the disc.

I have a fairly scientific method of spot-checking for problems. One of my CD players, an NAD, has an error light that comes on when the laser hits a glitch -- yellow means not-so-bad and red means the CD player has to use its error-correction system. When I check my oldest discs, they don't show any more errors than my newest ones.

Also, though I admit to a keen interest in seeing CDs survive, I also think the warnings of their imminent demise are vastly overstated.

No medium lasts forever, but the trend is toward more things on CDs -- movies, software, family photo albums. The CD has proved itself a durable, versatile medium.

If -- or more likely when -- CDs are supplanted by another format, they'll still be like your old records and, yes, your Edison cylinders: They'll still be playable. They'll just sound a whole lot better.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 03:45:42 CET 2002 from 1cust115.tnt2.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (67.227.173.115)

Jeffrey

Ahhhh.....! It warms me bones to see folks discussing important issues,hopefully raising some awareness, and not beating the RR/LH horse! Some enlightening posts to be sure.It's Crabbys fault! If he hadn't heckled me,this might not have happened.Sammy, your anger is justified. But until we realize the "U.S" role in all of this,we're fugged. Nice post Nick! It is unfortunate the amount of energy wasted on trying to find some common ground.If debate doesn't happen, we lose our checks and balances. Hell, I'd rather be blowin on my harp, playin my slide, and listening to Richard Manuel on"River of Tears", than thinking about the rest of this crap.Why can't people just be MELLOW!Eh BEG?

Posted on Thu Feb 28 03:12:31 CET 2002 from cpe-61-9-133-105.vic.bigpond.net.au (61.9.133.105)

Bill

John W.: You really don't think that Bush would have ratified Kyoto even if it applied the same rules to all countries do you? Canada's concern, I think, is not so much a fear of losing jobs to developing countries, but a fear of losing jobs to a slack US if "we" ratify and "you" don't.

As for Clinton, I saw him speak most eloquently - about the environment, global development and terrorism - just yesterday, from a distance of 10 feet. I was prepared to be unimpressed, but certainly wasn't. Everyone I spoke to thought similarly. (Band connection, if required: Arkansas.)

Posted on Thu Feb 28 02:10:16 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-th042.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.37)

Rock

"

" Mud or Blood ? It's " mud below my feet" not " blood below my feet " Though one might be more inclined to swear by their blood then by mud. Listen to the LP not the CD turn down the volume level the equalizer and pan left to right speaker if you have to but it's mud not blood. You can go ask Virgil if you want. Mr. V. its "flames have turned to char" but we can talk about it now.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 01:33:52 CET 2002 from akcf2.xtra.co.nz (203.96.111.200)

Rod

While we're busy analysing various songs and their arrangements, it's worth noting one of Robbie's comments on the Classic Albums video. He said that alot of things were played a particular way because thats all they were capable of doiing at the time. Maybe he was just being modest (on behalf of the others) .

I wonder who came up with the "and" bit on The Weight.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 01:17:26 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tg024.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.159)

Bayou Sam

Jeff/Rollie = I'll go to Disneyland, no problem. Of course, there might be a bomb on the roller coaster if we don't stop these killers.........I haven't altered anything I do. Of course, when you tried to drive into NYC for several months after the attack, there were any -or all of the following at all the river crossings = cops, state troopers, military soldiers. It's hard to be completely normal with that atmosphere around. I'm going into the city tomorrow. I'm luckey because I'll be using the only East River bridge that you're allowed to cross with one person in the car between 6 and 10 am. So, yeah - I don't travel in and around NYC in fear - but tomorrow when I'm in the middle of the bridge, and I see a plane approaching LaGuardia airport, I can't help but imagine what it would be like if it diverted into the bridge - just to kill some more of us rotten Americans. I don't expect that to happen because enough people wouldn't die from a bridge. It's the Empire State Building that I worry about.

Also, I'm sure the President would like us to try to relax a little and be normal. But, I bet there's a couple of F-16's buzzing around Washington when he goes to bed at night. Actually, they're probably there 24-7.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 00:55:09 CET 2002 from hvc-24-164-174-169.hvc.rr.com (24.164.174.169)

Dennis...'n Wanda

Wrotten day at work today.....just like workin' for Maggie and I've 'bout had enough of that old farm work! Good luck tonight Mr. D....

Hey boys 'n girls, finally a Woodstock show: Joyous Lake, Saturday, March 16th...Gurus!

Gettin' back to the farm and encore stories, hope this one fits: 'twas the last night of Woodstock '94 here in Saugerties. I needed more shirts to sell at my booth, so had to run into Kingston, NY to pick some up from the factory. The entire area was surrounded by cops not letting anyone drive in the area, so had to bribe some police with t-shirts to let me back in later. Got to a NY State police roadblock and gave 'em each a Woodstock shirt so I could drive back into the music zone. One of 'em says to me, "Is that Bob Dylan on stage? I'd love to see him."

I said, "Yea, he's on stage now, but you'd better hurry, it's encore time." The cop begs me for another shirt, takes off his police shirt, throws on a Grateful Dead gem, and off he goes to Mr. D's encore!

Wonder who that man in gray will be rootin' for tonight.

And hope to see you 'n yours on the 16th.... Dennis 'n Wanda

Posted on Thu Feb 28 00:42:05 CET 2002 from 64-80-53-5-access.surferz.net (64.80.53.5)

Diamond Lil

Ok Jan..I have a question. Was just looking at the page for that Ellen Nikolaysen album (loved your wonderful review %-) and am curious as to how something called "Et Menneske jeg fant" (A person I found) translates from "The night they drove old Dixie down"? I understand this a terrible record, but now you have me intrigued. Can you give us a sound sample? Thanks..and um... hug :-)

Have a good night everyone.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 00:15:47 CET 2002 from m0187.dialin.swt.edu (147.26.248.197)

pehr

Peter Viney: Some thoughts on rocking chair... notes... The Instrumentation:

Song starts on a Minor chord. the dropped 3rd of the first chord has a tinge of that mournful, sad, reflective sound. There is a complex interplay of the stringed instruments, a mandolin and guitar- earthy folk instruments seem to in different places but coming together while the synthesizer has an etherial airbourne quality, sounds like woodwinds to me. The voicings of the chords and runs being played work to sort themselves out a bit before resolving, coming together on the I chord with a thud as the song begins. The bottom is heavy and wooden, and to me the bass sounds in fact more like a tuba, similar to the bottom end on "Rag Mama Rag".

The voicings of both the instuments being played and the vocal harmonies seem to become more abstract as the song goes on; particularly Garth's work on the synth/organ, whatever it actually is I lose track ofas the motifs weave an ever more complex tapesty of single threads-movements- these windlike swirling sounds echo and reciprocate unpredictably... the gesture of which reminds me of the wind blowing at night through the trees.

Thinking of the "Canon" style of solfege singing, and of the "Round" in the folk style of staggered repeated motifs being sung by different voices... "Micheal Row Your Boat Ashore" kind of thing. Reflections...upon reflections (appropos the water imagery) reflecting upon the act of reflection itself.

The song is very painterly in its instrumentation and its lyric content. Just the sound though seems to bring this to mind with all the coming and going. The sound creates chains of vanishing images and illusions/allusions as it goes on. I'm thinking of water's elusive quality, how it avoids the grasping by the hands yet assumes the form of the vessel that contains it. Very Chinese at the moment but this water imagery painted through the sound is alot like the transitory nature of deep thought and meditation, which this song most certainly alludes to.

As I listen to this tonight along the "Painterly" concerns I am feeling alot of things coming to mind... I see a painting of an empty rocking chair sitting on a porch waiting for this seaman to come home...it seems to have his number in my mind, an inescapable inevitability to it, the calm patient assurance that the "Captain" will wind up "here".

Thew rocking chair itself a metaphor for the rocking of the boat, no longer on the waves but on the porch now. the letting go the difficulty of making the transition to old age and increasing dependence on others. I'm thinking of the elderly in my own neighborhood rockin' on the front porch. looking at the old deeply rooted trees leaves blowing in the wind, the swaying of the branches, clouds go across sky- the mysterious invisible winds that blowe them and the sun and moon's daily journey and the mysterious forces that propel them. an elder contemplate these comings and goings while waving to neighbors and passing travellers. Layers of reflection as one contemplates the essence and meanings of their own journey through life.

Another image comes to mind as I write this...the Nocturne, meditations of the sea at night.

American Painting of this era much of the band's work hearkens to, Post Colonial to Great Depression explores this theme, much more to my own knowledge than what the French and European Painters did at this time... James Mcneil Whistler was painting seascapes in London at this time but was of course an american... There was JMW Turner over there as well dong marines but not so many nocturnal scenes, and his imagery was most often military/naval subjects.,, Back to the americans I'm thinking of Washington Allston, Asher B. Durand, Martin Heade, ("Watson and the Shark"- the image of the young man in the prime of his life with the long flowing mane of blonde hair, royally dressed, flailing about in the sea as a shark bites off his leg and his astonished companions watch helplessy.comes to mind) Another image in my head is the Winslow Homer painting of the shipwrecked black slave clinging to a raft being stalked by a menacing row of shark fins and whitecaps another.

Albert Pinkham Ryder comes to mind next- small, cryptic, encrusted, cracked moonlit marinescapes with solitary sailboats on the waves- considered by many to be the firs modern, abstract paintings to be done in America. He was known as an eccentric that spent many nights walking up and down the Hudson River studying the effects of night color on water and his paintings were worked and re worked over 30 years with layers of varnish and materials of the nature of whatever was procurable, particularly black tar which caused these paintings to crack and makes them very sensitive to light and priceless today, very seldom on public display.

Ryder's most famous painting is in fact "The Flying Dutchman", his homage to the Wagner Opera of that name, allude to in the "Rocking Chair" composition that is bringing all this imagery to mind.

Ryder's work was particularly inspiring to the next generations of painters that explored this motif, all of them from New York area interestingly so far except Whistler. (New Jersey) The suceeding painters persued the maritime imagery with a particular intrest in the visionary path and the unconscious, also from New York/Hudson River area, Louis Eilshimuis, Milton Avery, John Marin, Adolph Gottlieb, Mark Rothko, Elmer Bischoff and Jackson Pollock.

Pollock's take on this theme is rather intriguing. In the case of his development as a painter, Pollock's gloomy solitary sailboats at night came after his studies of the west under Thomas Hart Benton as a student, and his studies of "psychoanalytic" abstractions done under to supervision of his analyst whom he sought counselling for his alcoholism. In Pollocks case his therapy under the auspices of a Jungian opened Pollock up to the influences of the unconscious, foretold by the enigmatic sailboats on the void, which led him to explore the work of the surrealists, Miro, Picasso, and Native American Ideas and motifs.

I'm dfoing this kind of stream of consciousness myself at the moment... particularly interested still in the commonality shared by these artists and Robertson being the image of the sailboat at sea, the forces of the unknown, and the Hudson River. I wonder indeed how aware Robertson was or is perhaps of all of these images. They can enter ones thinking consciously or unconsciously of course... I think I might check Google to see if any of these images are on the web but, I'll have to later.

Gotta say the line about dippin snuff and tellin jokes sure seems to come right off the Kitchen table discussions at Big Pink- Maybe Levon's missing home, or Rick... Makes me want to write a song about a fly on the wall...I could pour over this guestbook and find some of that material somewhere in the archives.

Rick's Bass sounds like a rocking chair alright. at least as much as a tuba.

I gotta run. this Rockin Chair tread really got me goin'. Thanks Peter and of course Jan and all the posters into this. Hope I didn't bore ya too badly but If you come this far, god bless ya. You must really love the Band. Best, P

Posted on Thu Feb 28 00:13:56 CET 2002 from 43.newark-08rh15rt.nj.dial-access.att.net (12.89.174.43)

Nick

Debating politics is like running in circles – by the time your legs give out, you realize you haven’t gone anywhere. There are so many variables that go into “what goes on” between governments and big business and governments and special interest groups that we rarely know enough about any given topic to form an “informed” opinion.

I don’t know much about politics, nor do I seek to know. I am however interested in issues – especially those that directly effect the safety of people and the health of the world, therefore; I condemn terrorism. I recycle. I don’t use aerosol sprays. I am extremely concerned about air pollution and water contamination. I am always aware of the earth-legacy we may leave for future generations. I am also aware that "global warming" is a theory discredited by a majority of the world's climatologists. I’m not saying it is not a real threat, but I agree there are two sides to every story…

Enron relentlessly pushed (and paid many hundreds of thousands to) the Clinton administration to help nudge the senate into ratifying the Kyoto Treaty because -- although experts say “it would have cost the U.S. billions and had a deadly effect on the economy” – it would have been a bonanza for Enron and the value of Enron stock.

The Kyoto Treaty, on the surface anyway, looks good for obvious environmental reasons, but like John W says, it would leave less developed nations like communist China for instance, with fewer “greenhouse gas” restrictions than the U.S. and other developed countries. Beyond that I don’t have a clue as to GW’s motives or alternate reasonings. Enron related? I don’t know. But I have heard that since Enron started in 1985 they have been a real live group of hustlers and swingers -- in bed enough with both Republicans and Democrats to cause Larry Flint to turn a rosey pink.

Remember Ron Brown, Clinton's Secretary of Commerce and how he died in that mysterious plane crash in Croatia? If Secretary Brown had lived, wouldn’t he have faced criminal indictments for Enron-dirty-dealings? An investigation back then would have turned up the information that is turning up now -- about the strong-arming of nations (dependant on congressional aid) to secure grossly over priced global energy contracts for – you guessed it --- Enron. The Ken Starr investigation would have never been necessary because Monica would never have been on her knees in the oval office in the first place – “that” Enron scandal back then may have precipitated an even earlier fall for Bill Clinton and his erotic humidor.

I wish we could all (myself included) follow the advice of Mahatma Gandhi. He said, "You must be the change you wish to see in the world". So… I don’t know… can we talk baseball next time? Oh, I forgot – we come here to talk about The Band. Rock on beautiful people.

Posted on Thu Feb 28 00:01:31 CET 2002 from pool-141-153-198-208.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.198.208)

Bumbles

As I have heard it, the form of “CD rot” that plagued the original Scorpio “GBTs” is a manufacturing defect caused when a small amount of moisture is trapped on the surface of the disc by the application of a final plastic coating. Although I’ve never encountered it first-hand (my “GBTs” are knock-offs), the condition is apparently most likely to occur on bootlegs produced in small, mainly Asian facilities without the quality-control practices found in the larger industrial plants that manufacture the great majority of discs available in North America and Europe. So while I imagine it’s no fun to have a $150 set of discs rot away into unplayability, rot isn’t an inherent limitation of the CD medium. And based on the example of the “GBTs,” if it’s going to happen, it will be within a year or two. After that, the most illicit of discs should be safe---from rot at least. As far as (non-rotted) CD life span, the 20-30 years someone mentioned in the GB is the lowest I’ve seen. Most estimates are several times that (i.e., they’ll outlast you), although, of course, no one knows.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 23:35:11 CET 2002 from du-tele3-105.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.105)

Peter Viney

Markku - thank you for sending us to a great Band story.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 23:15:31 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Thank you John W. I know this is one of Canada's concerns as well......that jobs will be lost and moved to other countries.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 22:59:11 CET 2002 from stx32.library.uiuc.edu (130.126.32.133)

Susan

Apparently there are no library preservation standards for CD production, and no intentions to draw up some. The general feeling seems to be that the format will change so quickly that standards won't keep up. There is a general feeling in the library preservation world that technology will change completely every 10 years, rendering various formats obsolete. The preservation mantra for digital preservation is Reformat Often. This means they expect cds to be replaced by some other format. We may be seeing the beginning stages as cds that are unplayable on computers and dvd players begin to appear.

As far as preserving an individual collection goes the best you can do is protect cds from light, dust, and temperature and humidity swings. This last is easier said than done.

A wide dispursal of copies is another preservation measure; the more copies around the better chance that some will survive to be reformatted to a new medium. So sharing bootlegs is good, and documating sources is important.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 22:41:29 CET 2002 from c-d4c671d5.02-2-67626719.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se (213.113.198.212)

Markku (Quos)

Don't know if this has been posted already, but Dave Edmunds has a small "anecdote page" about The Band on his site, where he remembers his meeting with the boys. Click on the link above, or go to http://www.daveedmunds.com/band.htm

Posted on Wed Feb 27 22:04:44 CET 2002 from du-tele3-104.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.104)

Peter Viney

Funny. Have started compiling the Rockin Chair comments. I thought my ONE original addition was to be the KLM logo- but you guys got there first. One point I'd make about G.W. Bush - British comedians seem to have an endless fund of filthy jokes based on his surname - how come this never happens in the USA? Is it that we're so shallow that we pick on these minor details?

Posted on Wed Feb 27 20:55:23 CET 2002 from (12.33.126.141)

John W.

John D. - Bush opposes the Kyoto Treaty because it places restrictions on the release of greenhouse gasses only on the developed countries, but not the 130 "developing" nations. They claim this will only cause businesses to relocate to developing countries like Mexico and China, and in the long run the total of the gasses emitted might end up increased, anyway. Why not place these environmental restrictions on ALL countries, such a policy might even help these developing nations modernize at a faster pace.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 20:27:37 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Maybe NICK knows the answer to this one. Does anyone know why President Bush is reneging on President Clinton's stand on the Kyoto Agreement We won't have to worry about terrorist attacks in the future when we all fry from our own greed. As long as I live I will never understand why Canada, the U.S. and other countries aren't concerned about the future of the planet instead of immediate big business

Posted on Wed Feb 27 20:08:13 CET 2002 from dialup-65.57.9.142.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.57.9.142)

Pat Brennan

John W, I think you'll find that Ron Reagan started this demonizing of the opposition, which is what happens when religion and politics collide.

As far as Enron and the Texas Republican Party, a little nosing around provides enough interesting material linking the two to bathe both in the sickening smell of a real scandal, something hard to distiguish after so many years of straw dogs. And anyone who wants to paint such sentiments with broad strokes ought to go back to the pre-election GB.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 20:03:22 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

It saddens me when I think of the re-release of TLW; in that the other four original members and their heirs receive absolutely nothing from it. It just doesn't seem right that five people made the music and one gets to reap the rewards. As someone stated a few weeks ago, It will be interesting to see if Garth gets a song writing credit this time around for "Chest Fever."

Posted on Wed Feb 27 20:02:33 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Jan's guestbook is a testament to the power of BAND music. So many people of differing backgrounds, nationalities and political beliefs sharing common ground in their appreciation of such fine music. It's a shame that, for so many others in the world, they can't put aside their differences and listen.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 19:44:05 CET 2002 from (206.203.20.32)

Herb

Press Release: "Eleven Years" James Damiano vs. Bob Dylan for Copyright Infringement, now on CD Rom. Coming soon on DVD.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 18:49:33 CET 2002 from (12.33.126.141)

John W.

Jeffrey - No, I'm not related to Fritz, although I did spend a lot of time hiking (not climbing) in the Shawangunk Mountains when I went to school at New Paltz. (Brings back memories of Levon at the Joyous Lake, and the first Band-related show I ever saw: the Danko/Manuel band, outdoors on the campus, Spring Weekend '79!

Anyway, I hope my posts were clear. I am no right wing extremist, but all I am saying is there are two sides to every issue. I get the feeling that to many liberals, it's not a matter of "my opinion versus their opinion" but it's "my opinion, which is the enlightened truth, versus their opinion, which is either evil or stupid."

Posted on Wed Feb 27 18:44:46 CET 2002 from schltns-3.demon.nl (212.238.196.9)

Ragtime

Dear meadowlark2

Yeah, it's symbolic, didn't you know? I looked into the sky, saw a blue KLM bird flying high, figured Ilkka and Meadowlark2 heading from Sweden to the Provence, and thought: that big rockin' chair don't go nowhere... just like le vaisseau fantôme ;-)

Anyway, when KLM officials chose this legend as a symbol, they must have known that the Dutchman's curse is lifted at last...

But: in the Band song the Dutchman's on the reef...

Posted on Wed Feb 27 18:37:28 CET 2002 from user-38ldlfi.dialup.mindspring.com (209.86.213.242)

J Quest

Here! Here! Jeffrey. It seems a person cannot critisize GWB without Clinton getting tossed in. One must start the debate by stating Clinton sucked in many areas, then start. A big difference between Whitewater, et al and ENRON is the amount. ENRON left the Clinton stuff far, far behind by hundreds of millions. What about that cat Skilling (ironic name, eh)? So inconcievably incompetant, or just another oily crook? I think GWB would be in trouble without the war; it keeps all us patriots distracted .

Posted on Wed Feb 27 18:28:08 CET 2002 from syr-24-169-66-92.twcny.rr.com (24.169.66.92)

Bashful Bill

Whoa! I was just going to post on here asking Gene, Dennis, et al what is going on at Joyous Lake, and I see a Guru's show announced. Just in time for St Patrick's Day, too.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 18:11:16 CET 2002 from 1cust135.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.135)

Jeffrey

Hey John- Why do yo keep bringing up Clinton in all of this. It seems like anytime Enron is discussed, or a negative Bush stance, it's always deflected with some reference to Clinton! Huh?I was never a big fan of his either! As for Enron, do your homework. Such close ties and no knowledge. Hard to swallow. But you're right.Hard evidence is more palatable. We may never find out the truth in this.By the way , you're not related to the famous climber , Fritz Weissner, are you?

Posted on Wed Feb 27 18:08:30 CET 2002 from du121-4.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.4.121)

meadowlark2

To Ragtime. The frequent flyer programme of the national Dutch airline company is called the Flying Dutchman club. Is this symbolic; does it mean that we will never arrive in our destination, but are doomed to spend the rest of our lives on board ;-)

Posted on Wed Feb 27 18:06:30 CET 2002 from dialin-1718-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.7.194)

Gene

Saturday 16 March 2002 @ 10PM - Jim Weider and The Honky Tonk Gurus at Joyous Lake in Woodstock, NY

Posted on Wed Feb 27 18:03:09 CET 2002 from host-65.subnet-76.med.umich.edu (141.214.76.65)

Steve Knowlton

Alan Edge: This goes waaay back to your post about "Dixie" (just catching up here), but many thoughtful historians believe that it is one of the great miracles of history that after the Civil War ended, it ended. By which I mean, there weren't guerillas hiding in the hills to take out Federal troops sniper-style, plant bombs on the railways, etc. In far too many places around the world hatred like that has lingered for literally centuries: just across the sea from Liverpool, in fact. I think the line "you can't raise a Cain back up when he's in defeat" applies to this situation. Following the lead of General Lee, the southern soldiers laid down their weapons and accepted defeat. Had Lee (and Grant, for that matter) chosen anything other than the reintegration of the Confederate troops into civilian life, our nation may have been another Sri Lanka. But all the "South is gonna rise again" rhetoric has never meant, as far as I can tell, that armed rebellion will occur - instead, that southern culture would resume its place of pride in the eyes of the world. Virgil Kane lost the war, and he never expected any actions that would win back his brother, or his pride.

As Orson Scott Card points out at his essay posted above, we owe another debt of gratitude to Martin Luther King for channeling the energies that could have made for another IRA into the SCLC. Truly, our nation has escaped some horrors.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 17:30:48 CET 2002 from (12.33.126.141)

John W.

Jeffrey, what evidence can you offer that shows Bush and Cheney "helped swindle" any money? When the Clintons were involved in scandal after scandal, their defenders always insisted the accusers show evidence, otherwise their heroes were the victims of innuendo and vast conspiracies. Why is the standard different now that the Republicans are in power? Just because Republicans are pro-business, does not make them any more responsible for wrongdoings like Enron, any more than a socially progressive liberal policy can be blamed for bribe-taking down at the local Department of Motor Vehicles.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 16:24:10 CET 2002 from 24-196-236-100.charter-georgia.com (24.196.236.100)

Don Pugatch

Streaming WFUV right now, and Jules Schere is on, singing "Too Soon Gone", nice. Such a great Radio station, and such a great song, and such a tragic thougth, I am sure we all can think of many who are "Too Soon Gone"

Posted on Wed Feb 27 16:11:17 CET 2002 from stx32.library.uiuc.edu (130.126.32.133)

Susan

I work in library preservation, but most of my work is with paper. I checked the references in my office; there's almost nothing on CDs. I'll ask the professional when I see her to see if she's got more information.

Basicly, no medium is really permanent. There are trade-offs for every format. As a general rule, avoiding high humidity is a good thing for every storage medium, and avoiding fluctuations in humidity is even more important. Low normal temperature is generally a good idea; 55-60F. This is not the level of human comfort, and not the temperature of my house or my library, but it's the ideal.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 14:11:38 CET 2002 from sdn-ar-001ilurbap061.dialsprint.net (158.252.113.45)

Susan

Ok, Ragtime, I'm being far too literatl about a ghost ship. I still like the notion of the song being full of ambiguous metaphors. Now I must go to work where I will spend far too much time thinking about Rockin' Chair, and making up reasons to go into the stacks so I can put headphones on and listen to it.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 13:30:06 CET 2002 from pd9e67524.dip.t-dialin.net (217.230.117.36)

ulbiman

O.K. we all love the Band and all the stories about them. Robbie indeed is a good busyness man, but he´s not the one who destroid the group! They all had there fun, money , success and so on and they all decided to do what they want and live there "after Band" live the way they want it. Maybe there were only musicians, friends and first of all human beings with all their mistakes. But they are no saints ! We all have to live our own lifes!But they gave us lot´s of good feelings and the chance to talk to the peoplle of the world in this guestbook. And that is not so bad.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 11:24:06 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

Bayou..... From a rookie Band fan who first saw the Last Waltz three months ago, my impressions were and the numerous times Ive watched since reinforces this is that Robbie as it appeared to me was tired of keeping this togather and I mean this from a creative standpoint that he was burned out, Ive read Peters note about orginators and contributers, well to say it as nicely as can be said there was really only one orginator since Pink for the most part with the rest of guys in the band as contributers, he was running on empty, I think at the time he loved these guys and still does, he just knew it was time... On this site Robbie is quoted as saying that Richard just faded away as a song writter after Pink and that no matter how much he tried to get Richard interested in writting again he couldn't get him to write. Robbie's conclusion is that some song writter's only have a few songs in them.... well maybe Robbie was also describing himself.. Just a thought

Posted on Wed Feb 27 10:30:50 CET 2002 from schltns-3.demon.nl (212.238.196.9)

Ragtime

Rockin' Chair:

The legend says that the Flying Dutchman is doomed to sail into eternity, right? So... if he is "on he reef" he must be stuck, can't sail forward or backwards. He's not on sea, he's not on the ground, he's just stuck... what a great metaphore for human life this is...

:-)

That big rockin' chair won't go nowhere...

Posted on Wed Feb 27 10:26:14 CET 2002 from du-tele3-130.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.130)

Peter Viney

Clarification: The tiny green holes are in the metal layer sandwiched in plastic, so the surface of plastic maintains its integrity both sides. You can't get through to them. You can't clean them. Because there is a metallic bit of meat in the sandwich, heat wouldn't do them any good, but disc rot isn't caused by hot rooms or sunlight.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 10:20:03 CET 2002 from du-tele3-130.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.130)

Peter Viney

Disc rot on CDs has been well-documented in European Hi-Fi magazines. Cleaning and polishing will do zero for a rotted disc, but it will help a greasy or dirty discs. I use Photo CDs all day and keep cleaner on the desk because after a few hours of disc swopping, they suddenly jam the computer and refuse to read. A quick clean and polish does the trick. Disc rot is quite different. It appears as tiny green circles and I’m afraid it is permanent holes in the surface which cannot be “bridged” by error correction. There was even a list of likely record labels, because in the early days there were so few pressing plants – just two at the initial launch! The very first CDs were pressed by Philips or Sony. Period. I believe these are all OK. A number of 1980s CDs have rotted, with several being noted in articles. The CD industry even admits it now, though puts it down to sub-standard materials or contamination in manufacturing plants allowing chemicals to be sealed into the layer between the plastic surface and the aluminum. When I was shopping for CDRs last week I noticed that several brands have “extra durable outer layers” to “prolong the life” of this eternal indestructible product.’ One conclusion was that certain colours of ink ate through the layers – which is why I saw very recently that some CDR collectors ask for no writing on the disc. The Genuine Basement Tapes have simple black printing on silver, but I believe most of the first run of Volume 2 have rotted. At a record fair, a guy told me he was doing quite a brisk trade in replacement GBT discs. CDRs are more susceptible to rot than CDS.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 08:01:48 CET 2002 from 1cust230.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.230)

jeffrey

Sammy, I think the answer to all this stuff is to heed GWs advice and just go shopping. Or maybe visit Disneyland.(he actually said that!) He and Uncle Dick have it under control. No doubt, with the money they helped swindle at Enron, this should enable them to pull a few more strings around the globe.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 07:52:12 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-ti011.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.151)

Rudolf E. Hoogenboom

Just want to let you know, once again, that this website is an excellent source for anyone who loves the Band as much as I do. I missed seeing Robbie Robertson on the Olympic Opening Ceremony, and I was wondering if I could somehow get that on video. Also, recently, my brother says a TV commercial was aired in Japan; in the background, he says, was music that sounded like Robbie and the Red Road Ensamble singing a Peter Frampton song. Does anyone know if that is correct?

Posted on Wed Feb 27 07:08:43 CET 2002 from syr-24-169-66-92.twcny.rr.com (24.169.66.92)

Bashful Bill

Too bad Richard didn't guest more on other people's albums with that beautiful voice. I've always loved River Of Tears on Bonnie Raitt's Green Light.I recall reading in Rolling Stone or somewhere that she sang that song and dedicated it to Richard at a show the night after he died. Real pleasant experience in the chatroom tonite, one of my infrequent visits there.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 06:51:27 CET 2002 from plumone.ne.mediaone.net (24.218.46.102)

doc

John D = I talked to my buddy again, the sound engineer, he told me that perhaps your storing your CDs near heat. Even a moderate heat over time may damage the disk and may have caused the discoloration that you mentioned. According to him, heat can damage the inside and outside of CDs. Your problem however seems to be just on the surface of the disk. Any scratches or cloudyness on CDs can be polished and the CD restored because the part of the disk that carries the data (music) is encased in the plastic exterior and may not be damaged. He also informed me that despite the article he had read that he saw no reason for CDs to have such a short life expectancy considering that they are made of plastic. Hope I've been helpful. Peace in the valley!

Posted on Wed Feb 27 06:07:43 CET 2002 from plumone.ne.mediaone.net (24.218.46.102)

doc

Charlie Young=Thanx for your response on my MOJO bit. I got so excited about finally discovering an excellent magazine that I wanted to tell everyone. Apparently, not enough people know about it yet and, well, I like to share a good thing. Funny thing it was that Peter Viney should have contributed an article(s) to MOJO because, in case you didn't notice, I thanked him for having responded to my last entry in the same entry that you responded to. I guess I learn best through trial and error or crash and burn. Though I'm still reading through my first issue, #99, I'm highly anticipating that MOJO will devote a lot of its coverage in the coming months to The Band owing to the release of the box set (April) and the special ed. DVD (May) of the Last Waltz. Maybe Peter knows.....? Anyway, as someone wrote earlier in the GB, "It's a good time to be a fan of The Band!"

Concerning the whole bit on the life of CDs, I asked my trustworthy buddy who is a really good sound engineer on the matter and he said that according to an article that he had read a number of years ago the life expectancy of CDs was thought to be anywhere between 20 to 30 years! In my opinion, that sucks! But that was also a number of years ago and who knows if things have changed...... Take care.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 05:58:17 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tc053.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.173)

Bayou Sam

Shit! - I'm glad you straightened out who made the "limitations' comment Peter. I thought you meant that it was RR. It's a funny thing, but I still wonder if RR had those feelings that I suggested. He just might have felt limited. Another funny thing is that I got two e-mails from folks - one kind of agreed with me, and another thought I was dumping on RR (which I wasn't).

Different suject = It seems incredible - but it almost seems that people have sort of "gotten used to" what happened on Sept. 11th. There has been talk of some radio talk shows that people who are not right here have maybe not felt the impact of the incident quite the same. I've evn heard a couple of people that have the attitude that we should "get over it" already. Bullshit! Now - please - don't anybody who isn't near NYC take that as an insult. I'm not suggesting that you all can't feel the impact of Sept. 11th. I'm just saying that there are some of those people out there. I wish to God that everyone in the gosh-almighty country could have taken a stroll around ground zero like I did about a month later. You had to look at the hideous collossal fucking destruction that those inhuman bastards did. Anywhere else in the world, those killers being held in Cuba would have had their heads blown off already. I crossed the bridge again on Monday from Queens to the Bronx, and I looked over at the skyline. They really are gone. I still can't get over the change in that view. Do they report all around the world that they still pull bodies out of the rubble even now.

Sould we just relax now and get back to "normal". Gee, maybe we scared the bad guys and they won't try a silly thing like that again. Bullshit! The thought of these fanatics that hate us and are willing to die to prove it, getting any serious nuclear bombs scares the ever living shit out of me. We need to stop that from happening.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 05:27:27 CET 2002 from spider-tl051.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.196)

bob wigo

Off the beaten track......

Did anyone here happen to catch Clint Black on a recent airing of "Austin City Limits" ? I was sitting and listening without much interest when Mr. Black moved to the drum kit and played an amazing cover of Steely Dan's "Josie". The guy's got chops !!

Posted on Wed Feb 27 05:17:00 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tj051.proxy.aol.com (64.12.106.41)

Brien Sz

Just watched a very solid documentary/show on The Learning Channel called The World Trade Center: Anatomy of a Collapse. Fascinating stuff. It was the first time i've witnessed the grueling footage of the attack since the end of September. Basically the show recounts the innovative design and construction of the WTC and why that innovative design was its eventual downfall. A really good hour of television if anyone gets the chance to see it.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 04:09:46 CET 2002 from parachute2-156-40-65-25.net.nih.gov (156.40.65.25)

Jonathan Katz

Peter - Robbie did a guest appearance with the RTR at Madison Square Garden [Dec 8, 1975]. As far as I know, he played only on "It Takes A Lot To Laugh..." Several boots exist, one is titled "Knight of the Hurricane." Rick guested on RTR1 in Hartford, Connecticut in '75, and with RTR2 in Texas? [which seems strange but can't recall]. My tape of Hartford is missing the Rick songs, but I think that I have a line on a boot with his songs. Tapes of his appearance with RTR2 exist, as well, but I have not heard one of good quality.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 03:35:45 CET 2002 from 158.newark-33-34rs.nj.dial-access.att.net (12.89.141.158)

Nick

I have enjoyed reading the guestbook many times. I don’t think I’ve ever posted, but my buttons got pushed today so in the spirit of voicing my opinion, here goes… "

" Yes. Music is politics. It is religion, it is philosophy, and all of it is life -- and all of that, is why we gravitated here in the first place -- The Band and that wonderful music. "

" Now… I am not saying that political or religious views shouldn’t be shared. Freedom of speech should apply to this forum, too… to the extent of vulgarity. And to that end may I respectfully request, that annoying, uninformed dribble also find no place here. "

" First button: No body DIDN’T support the president’s call to war -- especially congress. He received overwhelming support from all. Democrats and Republicans! Hawks and doves! Preachers and sinners! Cops and robbers! Band fans and Brittany fans! All! Unanimously! "

" We need not look farther than the bottom line: Our country was attacked – thousands of people where slaughtered! If someone causes you death, destruction, pain and suffering AND vows to do it again and again – should you not resort to serious steps and measures to make sure that “evil” aggression is not forced on you again? "

" Another button: I find it hard to believe that some people think Bush’s war on terror is “wagging the dog” to lock an election or keep folks from making fun of him again? Is that type thinking… one-dimensional or overly cynical? "

" Yet another button: war no longer has to be “declared war” to be war. Congress changed that some years ago. "

" There… "

" Soapbox? "

" I guess so – I’m on mine right now. And that’s what makes this “GB” a beautiful place. But politics and religion, folks? "

" Wouldn’t you rather go to a rally or a church? "

" Now back to music. That Bottom Line Show sounds like it was a magical evening. I wish I could have attended. Chest Fever is running through my head as I write this. And Kudos to the prof’ for his music and his business savvy. But, his association with The Band is production credits on the last three albums. I dig Aaron Hurwitz, but if anybody is carrying the “Ollie” torch, it’s Jim Weider. Fresh, rocking new-music and fresh, rocking remakes of some of The Bands’ classics. Check him out! His new CD will feature a remake of “The Weight” with a guest appearance by Mavis Staples. People may forget, Jim hit the road with Levon, Garth, Rick and Richard in ’83 and stayed for 17 years. And I haven’t seen anyone mention Randy Ciarlante on this page in quite a long time, either. Well, I’m happy to say they’re both still out there -- going strong and making great new music together. Weider carries that torch for me. I’m going to Tribeca Blues Friday night to see Jim Weider and the Honky Tonk Gurus. That’s brisk, baby! "

" Thanks all for letting me rant on. This is a pretty lively guestbook. Long live The Band, their wonderful music -- and the wonderment of the life that “that music” helped us all to realize.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 03:35:56 CET 2002 from sdn-ar-001ilurbap008.dialsprint.net (158.252.113.16)

Susan

Well, who'd have thought Rockin' Chair was so loaded with ambiguity? The more I look the more slippery the song seems, and that's just the lyrics.

Ragtime Willie has given me another way to look at some key lines. He sees the Flying Dutchman on the reef as the doomed sailor coming home, if I read him right. Now I take 'on the reef' as a wreck. I'm not a sailor, and have never been within 500 miles of an ocean, but reading tells me that when ships hit reefs it's not a good thing. The suggestion that the speaker is not satisfied to be home again is attractive, and is one possible reading, but I'm not convinced that the speaker ever gets back to land, to home.

There's another line that can have multiple meanings, and they all resonate. "This hill's too steep to climb" can be a metaphorical hill or a real one, and it carries a suggestion of the physical failings of age as well.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 02:59:09 CET 2002 from sc-hiltonhead2a-249.hhe.adelphia.net (24.49.232.249)

Amanda

FYI: If you are into the Johnny Cash Birthday Celebration...CMT is airing A Concert: Behind the Prison Walls (1976) at 9e.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 02:51:39 CET 2002 from spider-tk021.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.181)

butch

Bones mentions Cassandra Wilson's cover of The Weight,,,

when The Band did Mountain Stage, a little known Cassandra Wilson opened for them,,,,

maybe thats where she got the idea, 1st ???

hmmmmmmm i wonder,,,, ( her kid was a bundle of energy,, drove her staff nuts,,,,)

Posted on Wed Feb 27 02:31:27 CET 2002 from dialup-067.cork.iol.ie (194.125.43.67)

Hank

Well....as I was saying...there I was, sitting in a bar talking to this guy about The Band and the Re-issues and ....uh....

Aw...fergit it!

Posted on Wed Feb 27 01:30:56 CET 2002 from adsl-61-166-24.rdu.bellsouth.net (208.61.166.24)

Bones

Of interest to Band fans......the great Cassandra Wilson will be releasing a new album in March which will feature a cover of The Band's "The Weight". Hope all is well with everyone in the GB.

Also, Bonnie Raitt's Green Light record (with Richard Manuel guesting) will be re-released next Tuesday on cd (not sure if any bonus tracks are involved).

Posted on Wed Feb 27 00:52:29 CET 2002 from m198214176091.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.91)

Pehr

Go Pat Go!

Posted on Wed Feb 27 00:27:27 CET 2002 from dialup-65.57.15.32.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.57.15.32)

Pat Brennan

John W.: Thanks for the laughs. When you beg people not to engage in political discussion then follow your entreaty with a political discussion, you display an interesting ability to apply free speech only to speech you like. A lesson from Ashcroft no doubt. For your edification, however, you should be aware that Bush was given the presidency by a historically poorly derived Supreme Court decision, the tax cut has bancrupted the government in a time of crisis, the military and the intelligence community is guiding the people through this crisis, and if you think this administration doesn't stink of Enron ( come to think of it, didn't Dubya do a stock bail on one of his fading oil companies?) I got an condo at Watergate that might interest you. But really, enough of the political talk.

Posted on Wed Feb 27 00:08:29 CET 2002 from 0-1pool74-67.nas22.vienna1.va.us.da.qwest.net (63.159.74.67)

Charlie Young

John Donabie: your remarks about the questionable life span of CDs are the third mention of this that I have heard recently (though one was regarding disintegrating CD-R discs). I've yet to read anything authoritative about this yet, but it is disturbing. I own one Edison cylinder from around 1908 that would play if I had something to spin it on, but I do own a Victrola and some Spike Jones, Gene Autry and Chuck Berry 78 rpm discs that I play once in a while. It's really ironic now to think that some of those may outlive my much newer, and much more high tech and expensive compact discs.

Dave Hopkins: I'm with you in wishing that The Band had recorded more "stripped-down, acoustic stuff." Two of my favorite songs by the guys are "Acadian Driftwood" (as someone said, "a masterpiece") and, of course, "Rockin' Chair." I'm listening to the ROCK OF AGES bonus disc live version of the latter as I write this and the weariness of Richard's vocal--especially when he sings "the days that remain ain't worth a dime"--verges on the heartbreaking.

One of the later songs that fits this acoustic thread is "Atlantic City." I can still remember the first time I heard the song, pulling out of a foggy hotel parking lot in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia. A static-laced radio signal hauntingly teased me with Levon's mandolin and Garth's accordian. I felt like I was in hillbilly heaven because--for a short time at least--The Band was back!

Posted on Tue Feb 26 23:49:47 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

BAYOU SAM.......brings up a great point! My old records that go back 45 years are still mint. However some of my CD's as stated previously are fading. Mr. Viney???

Posted on Tue Feb 26 23:17:05 CET 2002 from du-tele3-070.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.70)

Peter Viney

My last post was unclear- the quoted "he" (who thought The Band had limitations) was Dylan, NOT Robbie. But then again … maybe Robbie did!

Any more thoughts on ROCKIN' CHAIR. In spite of too much other work I've started assembling some of the wonderful comments. Put 'em in now!

Posted on Tue Feb 26 23:12:38 CET 2002 from wwwcache.lanl.gov (128.165.156.80)

Kay

People should write about whatever they want in the GB, but some should practice getting to the point. Brevity is the soul of wit, I hear.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 22:21:13 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

The Grammy Awards show will be broadcast tomorrow night (Wed., Feb. 27th). In addition to Bob Dylan's three nominations & scheduled live performance, Band fans may hear another familiar name mentioned-- that of Mary Martin. Ms. Martin, now a VP with Mercury Nashville, co-produced the Hank Williams tribute album, "Timeless", which is nominated for Best Country Album. Individual performances by Sheryl Crow, Lucinda Williams, Ryan Adams and Johnny Cash from the "Timeless" album are also nominated.

Some 37 years ago, Mary Martin was instrumental in putting Bob Dylan together with the former Hawks. Over the intervening years she also worked with other artists, such as Leonard Cohen, Van Morrison and Emmylou Harris. Since the '80s she's been working as a recording label executive in Nashville, first with RCA and now at Mercury Nashville.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 21:51:36 CET 2002 from 1cust58.tnt30.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.78.58)

Crabgrass

Terrorism may have been around for a long time but the stakes are now much higher as WMDs can all too easily fall into the hands of religious fanatics. "Imagine no religion..." thanks to JL for that beautiful thought!! Too bad the "Age of Reason" never caught on - it's gonna be a long, long, bumpy road.

BTW who cares what anyone "prefers" to read in the GB? I'm for free thinking and free speech, not restricted thinking and restricted speech. Music is often intertwined with philosophical and political ideas anyway. Anyone who wants to see only music discussed (well, maybe dancing too) should go read and post in the 'NSYNC Guestbook.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 21:36:46 CET 2002 from spider-wl011.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.21)

Bayou Sam

That's a scary thought that John D. brings up about the life-span of CD's. I'm interested to hear from anyone who has any technical knowledge about why this would happen.

That's all the more reason to hang on to those old records.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 21:31:49 CET 2002 from spider-wl011.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.21)

Bayou Sam

That's an interesting comment in Peter's post about RR feeling that there were limitations in The Band. I would think that the other guys could have handled RR's solo stuff easily, musically. So the limitations must have been personal ones. It could go back to the thinking that RR kind of "grew-up" as The Band's career went along. Maybe by '76 he just wasn't the same member of the "clubhouse" that he was once upon a time.

Sometimes I get the feeling - based on nothing but a feeling - that Robbie just grew to not particularly like the other guys as much as he did. I don't think he hates them, or dosen't respect their incredible musicianship - I just wonder if he simply didn't care as much for them as people. It's kind of a sad thought. It may not even hold water. it's just something rattling around in my brain. In fact, I get the feeling that RR has very delibrately NOT said what he REALLY thinks because he has no interest in being just plain mean and nasty.

Hey Robbie - if you visit this GB - do us a favor and wsrite a couple of books. One of your memiors - and one with the words ("mud" or "blood")and music for The Band tunes. Be a regular guy and write those if you have some "time to kill".

Posted on Tue Feb 26 20:13:25 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO FATS AND JOHNNY

Posted on Tue Feb 26 20:10:20 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

I hope that John W is kidding in his e-mail. I find that the "attack on terror" seems very odd, since there has been terror in the world since the Beginning Of Time. No one is going to wipe the world of terror. It will sadly be always with us. I've had many of my American friends tell me that Bush has to keep this up for another 3 years at least. Let's all remember before 9/11 this was a President who was kidded, laughed at and made fun of by many. The 9/11 incident made this quite improper. Like many I believe this is George's ticket to staying in the White House. Without a "war on terrorism" it might go back to the jokes. That is the feeling of many of my American friends. Also we must remember that the United States is not officially at war with anyone. Congress are the ones who have to "legally" declare war and they have never done so. This is a war in words only at this point. I'm surprised congress never backed Bush into making this an official war.

As a Canadian I feel it is our duty to fight with the Americans and do everything we can do to assist them. Some Canadians forget that the United States not only protects much of the world; but they protect us as well. We must tighten up our borders and make sure that radicals do not come in from our side of the door anymore. I've said many times that except for that invisible 49th parallel we are indeed Brothers and Sisters on this continent of North America.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 19:56:09 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

TO PETER VINEY & ALL

A couple of eyars back Peter and I got on a discussion about how long our CD’s were going to last us. This came out of the deterioration of a CD from the original 5 Dylan Genuine Basement Tapes. One of the CD’s that Peter and I both owned took on a strange look on the surface. It was as if you had spilled something on it and it had dried. This translated to a “skipping” CD. There were no scratches on the CD............just this “smear.”

Last night I brought out my original Bangladesh double CD to listen to the live version of My Sweet Lord. All of a sudden the CD began to skip. I took it out of the machine and turned it over and what do you think I saw? The same “stain” as on the Dylan CD. This also happened on an MCA Buddy Holly Greatest hits CD.

My point here is, that with thousands of CD’s that I have already collected what really is the life expectancy of the CD?

Remember when they first came out and people said you could smear peanut butter on them……you could scratch them with a knife and they would still play? Well we found out the truth about that. I must admit I am a little worried.

A friend of mine who is into film is telling me that some of his old VHS tapes are starting to look faded. Also some of the old Technicolor Movies that are shown on TV are starting to take on a “red” appearance. Let’s hope the archivists find a solution to all of these problems. I know I don’t have the money to re-purchase my CD collection.. Comments? Peter?

Posted on Tue Feb 26 19:33:51 CET 2002 from m198214176091.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.91)

Pehr

"Plush safe he think"

Posted on Tue Feb 26 19:32:20 CET 2002 from user-38ldl32.dialup.mindspring.com (209.86.212.98)

J Quest

I just noticed a Cajun compilation called Evangeline-Made, on Vanguard, with some folks appearing that had recently been tossed about in the GB: John Fogarty, Nick Lowe & Richard Thompson.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 18:56:56 CET 2002 from dap-209-114-161-88.nfas.monroe-tnt-1.sns234.pa.stargate.net (209.114.161.88)

Mary (bear)

Congratulations to my Canadian guestbook friends on the Canadian teams winning the Gold. Mario is on his way back to the "burg" tonight. You all take care and keep listening to the wonderful music The Band and so many others have left for us to enjoy.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 18:41:03 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Happy 70th birthday to The Man In Black -- a man as real as his music!

"There were nights I don't remember
And there's pain that I've forgotten
Other things I choose not to recall
There are faces that come to me
In my darkest secret memory
Faces that I wish would not come back at all."

"In my dreams parade of lovers
From the other times and places
There's not one that matters now, no matter who
I'm just thankful for the journey
And that I've survived the battles
And that my spoils of victory are you."

--Johnny Cash (from "Like A Soldier")

Posted on Tue Feb 26 18:05:14 CET 2002 from (12.33.178.141)

twilight

Hey Butch - Any news on the Hubert Sumlin album release? I recall one of your posts from a while back said it might be soon. Let us know when you can.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 17:07:51 CET 2002 from sdn-ap-002castocp0170.dialsprint.net (63.187.8.170)

jeffrey

John,you're kidding right? By the way, when are you going to post a proper e-mail?

Posted on Tue Feb 26 16:44:13 CET 2002 from (12.33.126.141)

John W.

I would prefer not to see endless political debates on this guestbook as it is much more pleasant to read about the music and musicians we love. Especially since most of the liberal "whine" is the fruit of "sour grapes." They just can't get over the fact that the conservative side has had some success. Just can't accept the fact that Bush beat Gore in the election; got his tax reforms implemented; has skillfully guided the nation following the 9/11 attacks; and nothing negative about the Enron situation has stuck to anyone in the administration.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 16:24:14 CET 2002 from spider-wk052.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.172)

butch

There is a nice review of Hubert Sumlin's 70th Birthday gig in NYC @ BB Kings,,,

it is in the newest issue of BLUES REVUE,,,

Levon, & Chris & Pat of the BarnBurners get a nice mention,,,,,,,,, as well they should,,,,they were blistering that night,,,, justa FYI,,,,,,, butch

Posted on Tue Feb 26 15:50:31 CET 2002 from du-tele3-056.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.56)

Peter Viney

From the latest issue of Q. They cite Robbie as a “cast member” of The Rolling Thunder Review. Well, not on the record or video, but I think he did play on just one gig. Anyone remember? They also make the comment on Rolling Thunder - “His artistic objective, inspired by Patti Smith, was to break out of what he had come to see as The Band’s limitations.” Hmm. Limitations – what were they? Playing in tune? Insisting on knowing the songs?

Posted on Tue Feb 26 14:41:41 CET 2002 from dialup-329.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.73)

Hank

I was waiting for a lift yesterday..... in a pub here in Cork... and a guy I met while waiting mentioned to me how he got The Big Pink reissue and how much he really dug it....he knows I'm a Band-Head.....we talked about The Band for a while and he was under the impression that it must be great for them with all the re-issues coming out and how many new bands name-check The Band as influences....I agreed with him up to a point but felt compelled to tell him how two of The Band are now passed on and two of The Band are now virtually broke......he expressed amazement at this.......he said it was hard to believe.......my lift arrived and I had to split........I went away thinking that maybe I know too much and worse, that I might have SAID too much....this fellow was a music lover.......loved The Band.....and I had to go and give this dark edge to the conversation.......

On a happier note....I finished a gig last Friday night with "The Weight" and usually we have all the vocal parts all worked out and we do it properly....so to speak.......but the gig had gone so well and the crowd were well up on it and pretty well tanked up, too, that when we got to the "And" part, there was this huge swell of about 100 people singing "ANNNNNNNNNNNNND......you put the load right on me" all wrong and outta time.....funniest thing you ever heard.....now I KNOW that might annoy the shite outta some folks...but hey!!!......you know what happens when you DON'T have too much fun.....

Posted on Tue Feb 26 13:51:09 CET 2002 from (66.152.204.145)

Bob R

Not only is it Johnny Cash's birthday today, but Fats Domino also has a birthday as well-- the fat man turns 74 today !

Posted on Tue Feb 26 13:04:37 CET 2002 from spider-ta084.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.84)

Brien Sz

Hello.., I'm Johnny Cash, (i love that opening line)to Folsom Prison Blues - i think i'll crank it up today.

Love the Rockin Chair discussion, it is definately the finest moment of the remasters. Also, is that RR's falsetto i hear in the background while Richards singing?

Civil Rights - First of all, they should be for citizens. Too many folks love to hide behind that viel when it serves their purpose. I say bring back the Alien and Seditions Act!

Yea, lets get another Special Prosecuter case going.., It's all this country needs. Every President since Ford has had one and everyone was a waste of taxpayers time and money. The only thing it does is distract what should be time spent trying to run the country effectively. I'm no Clinton fan but even Starrs Investigation was a colossal waste of time that in the end did nothing but hurt the country. Bob Woodward wrote a very solid book called "Shadow" that deals with all the Special Prosecuter cases of the last 5 presidencies.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 12:19:53 CET 2002 from i249-010.nv.iinet.net.au (203.59.249.10)

Nancy

I heard on the radio that Johnny Cash is 70 today.

Personally I don't like to think of him passing on, as he's such a legend and given enjoyment to so many people. My father used to get a great kick out of "A Girl Called Sue" when he heard it on the radio during late night car trips. He'd have a joke and a laugh about it, then pull my mother over from her side of the car to cuddle with him the rest of the way home. I was supposed to be asleep..........

Posted on Tue Feb 26 11:03:32 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

How old is the Man in Black? I hear he is in poor health, I first heard Johhny listening to my Mom's old 45's back in the 60's, yep my Mom's favorite's Elvis and Johhny were the sound's in our house.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 10:14:51 CET 2002 from p50853343.dip.t-dialin.net (80.133.51.67)

ulbiman

HAPPY BIRTHDAY..... JOHNNY CASH !! Ride on Man in Black, ride on!

Posted on Tue Feb 26 07:06:37 CET 2002 from 1cust173.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.173)

Jeffrey

Hey boys! Is this the administration you're asking me to trust? This is way better than the LH/RR feud!----We Demand a Special Prosecutor for Enrongate! Sign the Petition The collapse of Enron was the largest bankruptcy in American history. Thousands of Americans - including many Enron employees - were financially devastated. But Enron's executives got rich. A shareholder lawsuit alleges that the 29 executives and directors dumped $1.1 billion worth of stock while knowing the company was in danger of collapse. Enron's collapse is the subject of a criminal investigation by the Justice Department of the Bush Administration. However, the Bush administration and Enron are so closely connected as to be virtually indistinguishable. Enron chair Ken Lay and other Enron executives were George W. Bush's largest donors, contributing over $550,000. Top officials of the Bush administration, including political advisor Karl Rove, were major stockholders in Enron. Close associates of George W. Bush, including Florida recount chair James Baker, served on the board of directors of Enron. Top Republican officials, including Republican Chairman Marc Racicot, lobbied for Enron, while the Republican Party received huge contributions from Enron. Enron was a key advisor to the Bush administration in the secret formulation of its energy plan, which the administration adamantly refuses to make public. One day after Ken Lay met with Dick Cheney in April 2001, Cheney declared the administration's opposition to wholesale electricity price controls in California, which was enormously profitable to Enron. The Bush administration cannot possibly conduct an independent and thorough investigation of Enron. Attorney General John Ashcroft had to recuse himself from the Justice Department's criminal investigations after it was revealed that he received more than $61,000 in contributions from Enron executives. Deputy Attorney General Larry Thompson, who inherited these criminal investigations, was a partner in a law firm that represented Enron, which creates an intolerable conflict of interest. We, the undersigned, demand a Special Prosecutor to investigate all of the crimes that preceeded the collapse of Enron, and the possible involvement of the Bush administration in those crimes. Sign the Petition

Posted on Tue Feb 26 06:47:54 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tc051.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.171)

Bayou Sam

If any of those prisoners being held in Cuba were given the slightest chance - they would cut the throat of any American they could get to. They're probably eating better, and sleeping better, than they ever have in their lives.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 06:29:02 CET 2002 from 1cust173.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.173)

Jeffrey

By the way, did I mention I was at The Last Waltz?

Posted on Tue Feb 26 06:18:35 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

CRABGRASS---maybe Im out line with how folks on this site feel but I just dont feel any compassion for the al Qaeda detainees, if what your saying is a example of thier civil rights being violated I guess my response would be I'm surprised they are treated that well, I believe in due process, I don't think they should be beaten or treated like animals but on the same hand they are being held on very serious charges and if you've ever been through the legal system you know it's no picnic..........

Posted on Tue Feb 26 05:56:54 CET 2002 from a010-0002.blgs.splitrock.net (209.254.61.2)

Jack Straw

An alleged Ronnie Hawkins Martin D-45 up on eBay #1518797287.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 05:53:58 CET 2002 from 1cust173.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.173)

jeffrey

Crabby is referring to an e-mail I sent him.Skewed to suit your taste Crabby.But I suppose it can be argued, we all do that.Nonetheless,certain details you mention are taken out of context, and to be truthful, many Middle Eastern folks have been detained illegally, many of whom are in the US legally. You left out this part(among many)"....We cannot justify a government which takes from the people our right to privacy and then assumes for its own operations a right to total secrecy".Or this"...Let us pray that our nation will remember that the unfolding of the promise of democracy in our nation paralleled the striving for civil rights. That is why we must challenge the rationale of the Patriot Act. We must ask why should America put aside guarantees of constitutional justice? How can we justify in effect canceling the First Amendment and the right of free speech, the right to peaceably assemble? How can we justify in effect canceling the Fourth Amendment, probable cause, the prohibitions against unreasonable search and seizure? How can we justify in effect canceling the Fifth Amendment, nullifying due process, and allowing for indefinite incarceration without a trial? How can we justify in effect canceling the Sixth Amendment, the right to prompt and public trial? How can we justify in effect canceling the Eighth Amendment which protects against cruel and unusual punishment? We cannot justify widespread wiretaps and internet surveillance without judicial supervision, let alone with it. We cannot justify secret searches without a warrant. We cannot justify giving the Attorney General the ability to designate domestic terror groups. We cannot justify giving the FBI total access to any type of data which may exist in any system anywhere such as medical records and financial records".Does any of this make sense? I hope so. For the complete text(unedited by Crabby) go to counterpunch.org and look for "A prayer for America" by Rep. Dennis Kucinich. Judge for yourself.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 05:21:30 CET 2002 from 1cust244.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.92.244)

Crabgrass

I have just received word from a reliable source that some of the al Qaeda detainees at Guantanamo Naval Base in Cuba are not being afforded their civil rights. Also, there is a shortage of U.S. taxpayer purchased copies of the Holy Quar'an and that two to three detainees are often forced to share one copy during morning prayer in order to reinforce their religious convictions. In addition, many illegal aliens from the Middle East living in this country are victims of having their civil rights infringed upon.

Anyway, I'm thinking of organizing a March on Washington to protest government policies - if enough GBer's are into this we can rent a few buses and take a stand on this issue as Band fans. Contact me if interested.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 04:49:37 CET 2002 from sqd104.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.162.4)

Fred

To Scouser Alan Edge: Thanks for the info on your latest post (re: Scouser Tommy) I have a version of that LiverpoolFC anthem, on a Cherry Red Records CD, & i've always had the nagging feeling that that particular song was very familiar..of course Red River Valley! One of my dreams in life is to visit Anfield on match day...although I'm not a Liverpool fan (GREAT club, though, can't deny that fact!) hey maybe you could get the Kop to belt out a few Band songs..perhaps if you beat Man U you could sing The Night They Drove Ol' Manu U down!!!

Posted on Tue Feb 26 04:42:39 CET 2002 from as3-2-24.hip.berkeley.edu (136.152.194.138)

Dave Hopkins

"Rockin' Chair" is the only Band song that I can think of from the original lineup without a drummer on the track (not counting "The Genetic Method" and some of the demos on the reissues like "What Am I Living For"), which gives it a bit of a Basement Tapes feel. I've always loved Danko's bass playing on the track, in part for this reason. Usually, Rick liked to play off the drums with a fair amount of syncopation (check out "Up on Cripple Creek," "Across the Great Divide," "Stage Fright" etc. etc. for great examples of this) and was of course just terrific at it; I can't think of a bass player anywhere with a better intuitive sense of rhythm.

But on "Rockin' Chair" there's no Levon or Richard behind the kit, and Rick adopts a different approach entirely since it's his responsibility to keep time for the rest of the group. So he sticks mostly to the downbeats, and it's perfect. I especially love the descending figure he plays during the verses (under "it's for sure, I spent my whole life at sea" and the corresponding points later in the song). There's nothing at all technically complex about his performance, and just about any bass player could play it. But not just any bass player *would* play it, and that's what separates the great musicians from the rest of the pack.

Hell, there's nothing shabby about the other guys' playing either. I wish the Band had done more of the stripped-down acoustic stuff on later albums; it clearly had a feel for that style.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 02:46:21 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Charlie, I think you missed my point. Of course George knew The Band. Mr. Edge apologized for his piece not being on The Band and I said, it doesn't really matter; because few posts deal with "THE BAND" anymore because they no longer exist. That's just a reality. Nothing we can do about it. I think it's great we have this forum to talk about music in general, Band or not Band related. There is "no need to apologize" is what I was just saying.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 01:26:13 CET 2002 from cache-hay-hsi.cableinet.co.uk (62.31.32.130)

Al Edge

Just come across this on a Liverpool Football website - I did tell you about there being some good debate on there.

This particular debate concerns the origins of a song we sing on the Spion Kop at Anfield, the home of Liverpool Football Club.

It is a very moving song about the fierce pride a Scouser has for his beloved Liverpool as he lies dying on a scorching desert battlefield in Libya.

His final defiant words before dying are "I am a Liverpudlian, just come from the Spion Kop...". You can imagine how stirring this can be when roared by a large crowd.

Anyroad, the thing is somone has posted on the site that he believes the origins of the song lie in the American Civil War and has provided some background to this.

Reading about it is very moving and if the tale is true it goes to show the power of such bravery and dignity can actually survive in ways you might scarcely imagine.

True folk music perhaps?

Of course it has two connotations for me. Quite apart from the Scouse one, I am also reminded of what I wrote the other day about Virgil Kane and his brother. The valour , the honour and the fragility.

Anyroad, here's what the fellow posted. If you haven't read it before, I'd advise you to have a few tissues handy.

THE POST

The men were often thrown into the heat of a terrible battle just moments after reaching the front. They would engage in exhausting combat for days, interspersed by sleepless nights on the ground—sometimes in freezing rain or snow.

During the battle itself, they ate a dry, hard biscuit called hardtack, and very little else. In less combative times, they could add a little salt pork and coffee to their diet. That was it! As might be expected, their intestinal tracks were regularly shredded by diarrhea, dysentery and related diseases that decimated their ranks.

The Union Army reported upwards of 200,000 casualties from disease, often disabling up to 50 percent of the soldiers. The Confederates suffered a similar fate.

Combat experience itself was unbelievably violent in those days. Thousands of men stood toe to toe and slaughtered one another like flies.

After one particularly bloody battle in 1862, 5,000 men lay dead in an area of two square miles. Twenty thousand more were wounded. One witness said it was possible to walk on dead bodies for 100 yards without once stepping on the ground. Many of the wounded remained where they fell among dead men and horses for 12 or 14 hours, with their groans and cries echoing through the countryside.

While their willingness to endure these physical deprivations is almost incomprehensible, one has to admire the emotional toughness of the troops. They believed in their cause, whether Union or Confederate, and they committed their lives to it. Most believed that they would not survive the war, but that was of little consequence.

Please understand that I do not see unmitigated virtue in the heroic visions of that day. Indeed, men were all too willing to put their lives on the line for a war they poorly understood. But their dedication and personal sacrifice remain today as memorials to their time.

There is, perhaps, no better illustration of this commitment to principle and honor than is seen in a letter written by major Sullivan Ballou of the Union Army. He penned it to his wife, Sarah, a week before the battle of Bull Run, July 14, 1861. They had been married only six years. These powerful words still touch my soul:

My Very Dear Sarah:

The indications are very strong that we shall move in a few days—perhaps tomorrow. Lest I should not be able to write again, I feel impelled to write a few lines that may fall under your eye when I shall be no more ...

I have no misgivings about or lack of confidence in the cause in which I am engaged, and my courage does not halt or falter. I know how strongly American civilization now leans on the triumph of the Government, and how great a debt we owe to those who went before us through the blood and suffering of the Revolution. And I am willing, perfectly willing, to lay down all my joys in this life to help maintain this Government and to pay that debt...

Sarah, my love for you is deathless: it seems to bind me with mighty cables that nothing but Omnipotence could break, and yet my love for country comes over me like a strong wind and bears me irresistibly on, with all these chains to the battle-field.

The memories of all the blissful moments I have spent with you come creeping over me, and I feel most deeply grateful to God, and you, that I have enjoyed them so long. And how hard it is for me to give them up and burn to ashes the hopes of future years, when, God willing, we might still have lived and loved together and seen our sons grown up to honorable manhood around us.

If I do not (return), my dear Sarah, never forget how much I love you, and when my last breath escapes me on the battle-field, it will whisper your name. Forgive my many faults and the many pains I have caused you. How thoughtless, how foolish I have often-times been...

O Sarah, if the dead can come back to this earth and flit unseen around those they loved, I shall always be near you in the gladdest day and in the darkest night, amidst your happiest scenes and gloomiest hours—always, always: and if there be a soft breeze upon your cheek, it shall by my breath, or the cool air cools your throbbing temple, it shall be my spirit passing by.

Sarah, do not mourn me dead: think I am gone, and wait for me, for we shall meet again...

Sullivan

Major Ballou was killed one week later in the first battle of Bull Run. I wonder, don’t you, if he did indeed utter Sarah’s name as he lay dying on the battlefield. She undoubtedly suffered the greater pain in the aftermath of that terrible war.

The story goes that as a Tribute the Americans created a song which eventually was sung to the tune of Red River Valley and as a result Americans have been singing it at sporting events since the 1920s, I have a few versions of the American song.

Liverpool supporters may well have got the idea of Poor Scouser Tommy uttering the words 'I am a Liverpudlian' from this poignant tale of Major Ballou.

Posted on Tue Feb 26 01:25:16 CET 2002 from 210-55-236-20.static-dialup.xtra.co.nz (210.55.236.20)

Rod

Jared, I've only ever heard the Cromatix on the Souvineer CD and based on that I do have to agree with you. That being said the prof's organ on Rag Mama Raf is like something out of Rock Of Ages. Incredible stuff.

The thing(s) I like most about Rocking Chair is the Accordion and Mandolin. The whole arrangement is like some string band from another time. When You Awake , The Unfaithful Servant and Dixie have that same sort of feel and are probably the songs that (as someone once said) made The Band the best album of the 19th century.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 23:19:23 CET 2002 from 1cust18.tnt23.tco2.da.uu.net (67.200.182.18)

Charlie Young

First I mention Bugs Bunny and now someone named "Doc" posts here. What's up Doc? Seriously, Doc, you mention MOJO as a fine music magazine and I agree. In fact, our own Peter Viney wrote a fine piece about Richard Mauuel for a special issue of MOJO that discussed great singers.

Finally, George Harrison had countless connections to The Band, among them his words about them on any number of occassions (including the "Classic Albums" documentary). I just saw the clip of Sir Paul singing "Yesterday" with the lyrics altered to honor George and it was quite moving.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 23:05:36 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-ta074.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.54)

Bayou Sam

THE BAND

Posted on Mon Feb 25 22:56:13 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

AL EDGE: No need to apologize for not mentioning The Band in your Harrison story. The Band are rarely mentioned here anymore; other than talks of feuds or who likes or dislikes certain members of the group. My feeling is that Jan allows the guest book to continue on, I think; because many of us have become on-line friends and some of us personal friends. The reason that brought us all here no longer exists; but the memories do.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 21:33:07 CET 2002 from 24-196-236-100.charter-georgia.com (24.196.236.100)

Don Pugatch

Away on a driving trip but had more time to think about the wonderful concert last Thursday of John Hiatt, doing his solo tour. John, came out in a Black Suit, said later that it is his slimming black suit, but the jacket came off about half way through the concert. Luckily, we had seats about 10 rows from the stage in a 1000 seat venue, like Rick used to say, like being in his living room, so we danced, boogied and cried to the Rider with the King. Don't remember the set list, but lots of favorites, including, Gone, Tiki Bar, Everyone went Low, Have a little Faith in Me, What are we going to do, and of course, accoustic Riding with the King. What made the ending so magic, the 4th encore, John comes back and does a new tune, which is a tribute to NYC and 9/11. If you remember, the following weekend was the BB King Tour in the NY area, and JH was in the city at the time of the tragedy.

Another special moment came, after the show, we went in the back of the venue, waited about 5 minutes near the bus and John comes out, well everyone who waited, had their time with John, shaking hands, taking pictures, just BS ing, such a nice guy. It made me remember, how wonderful it is when you can meet your heroes, just like Rick, just like Levon, John Hiatt has paid his dues and his love for his fan's and music shows.

This completes my February musical Trifecta, and now got to find some live music for March, but maybe one day, will be lucky enough to mark The Barn Burners on the Calender down here.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 21:23:15 CET 2002 from dra-211.dhcp.umass.edu (128.119.99.211)

doc

Probably a silly question but I wanted to know if anybody has an idea on where I could obtain a really well done professional-like copy of the complete Last Waltz on CD? I've been directed to one site from one of the good folks over on the chat line but, apparently, that company isn't intent on trading.

Thank you Pat Brennan and Peter Viney for your responses to my message last week - if you still remember. I would have liked to thanked you two earlier but not having my own computer makes it difficult.

One last note: If anybody finds it, pick up an issue of a music mag entitled "MOJO." - It's been around for about 10 yrs but apparently it's not that popular. My friend introduced it to me last week and I thought it was great reading. He describes it as "the music mag for all the disgruntled Rolling Stone fans because it's everything that Rolling Stone should be." It surely is informative and intelligent and w/o all those darn adversitements! The only problem is that it's only distributed from the UK so it will cost anywhere from $7-$10. Funny thing is, I know I have seen it a million times but I just passed it up as probably another fluffy mag - and I always say 'never judged a book by its cover'! Anyway, definately buy it, I know you'll love it. Great article this month on why Brian Wilson's "Smile" never came out.

Take care folks.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 20:22:38 CET 2002 from (12.33.126.141)

John W.

Jared Goldman - Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can't believe how you can miss the talent of Prof. Louie and the Crowmatix! I think he displays tons of talent with the piano, organ and accordian, and sings pretty well, too! And Miss Marie seems to get better all the time, she can belt out the blues pretty well. She reminds me of a combination of Janis Joplin (better voice, though) with the "witchiness" of a Stevie Nicks. If you watch Mike Dunn, he's always right on the money with the bass licks, and Gary Burke is, in my opinion, an awesome drummer! I think the "Jam" CD is even better than the prvious one, "Over the Edge", though they are both worth the price!

The only thing I will acknowledge is that they are not the most guitar-oriented band you will ever see. If you ever see them on the same bill with the Gurus, you might walk away thinking the Gurus were better, because the Crowmatix don't have anyone who can play like Jim Weider. But then, who does? But as far as pure talent and playing tight together as a unit, the Crowmatix are hard to beat!

Posted on Mon Feb 25 19:40:03 CET 2002 from sc-hiltonhead2a-249.hhe.adelphia.net (24.49.232.249)

Amanda

Ragtime Willie: I think that is excellent...what you wrote about Rockin' Chair. The speaker is older and tired, yet wants to keep this life that he has always known...he doesn't want to go home and grow old in his rockin'chair because that Big Rockin' Chair won't go nowhere. I hadn't thought of something so simple...thanks. And...thanks to everyone for the wonderful reviews of The Barnburner shows...Bob Wigo...your turning into a regular Road Warrior!

Posted on Mon Feb 25 19:38:43 CET 2002 from proxy4ext.disney.com (204.128.192.73)

Jared Goldman

Hi Everyone, I know I may be in the minority here but, does anyone else have trouble listening to Prof. Louie and the Crowmatix? I love the Band and early anticipate the rerelease of the Last Waltz and even enjoy going to see Garth and Levon however, I find Prof. Louie etc to be almost unbearable to listen to. They sound extremely second rate and hokey and at times I feel like their renditions of Band songs are almost insultory. Harsh words I know, but I always read how everyone seems to like their music and I just don't understand where I've gone wrong. Jared

Posted on Mon Feb 25 19:29:57 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tk074.proxy.aol.com (64.12.107.54)

butch

OOOOOPS !!!!!!!!! MY MISTAKE !!!!!!

i should read my mail ALL the way through,,,ROFL

it was NOT PSB,,,,

it WAS peter spencer,,,,

sorry,,,MY FAULT!!!!!!!!

butch

Posted on Mon Feb 25 19:13:57 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tk074.proxy.aol.com (64.12.107.54)

peter stone brown

Dear Butch, I no longer have access to the AOL bulletin board. Could you post this there for me? vvv, pete

It was another grand night on Friday, when the BBs hit Trenton at the new Conduit Club. I brought the guys in my band Wise Virgins to the show and Levon couldn't have been nicer to them, which is a HUGE boost to my credibility! They were thrilled to meet him and knocked out by the music.

Okay, so the sound was a bit Pink Floyd for my taste, all those super-highs and super-lows that just get in the way IMHO. But that's what you get, I guess, when the place doubles as a dance club and the sound people are in their twenties. Hard not to play with all those toys when you got 'em. Lee sounded great despite a cold that had him reaching for the tissues fairly often. Those false endings are turning into a real tour de force, and on another tune he did some spectacular rim-work on the toms. George the drummer was in awe, and everyone in the club had the same delighted, vacant smile on their face that I had. Bear and I danced a lot, which she likes. We did the dirty boogie (although not as dirty as that blonde at ringside - she was hot!) the Twist, the Tango, the Foxtrot, and the lighter-than-air-hippie-wave. My back hasn't felt so good in months. It really is a healing experience to dance to that music, reminds me of Garth's comments in the LW movie about "The musicians are the ones who punch it out and make people feel good." That's what Levon does. Miss Amy wasn't there, but this band keeps getting more and more solid each time I hear 'em. Pat and Chris work together beautifully and the new bass-player (Frank?) swings like a bitch and also does wonderful hokey tricks with the upright.

One sometimes overlooked factor is the pleasure I get in watching Butch work. This is a total pro, whether calming down an overamped kid who's requesting "The Weight" every five minutes, announcing the band, directing traffic on and off the stage - or in the dressing room - he is always on the case and making things better. Thanks Butch!

This morning one of my co-workers asked me how my weekend went. I said "I had a hot date Friday night and spent the rest of the weekend sleeping." She said, "Perfect!" and it was.

spent creeper

Posted on Mon Feb 25 19:03:26 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

For me the definitive version of Hoagy Carmichael's "Rockin' Chair" is the one that trombonist Jack Teagarden sang along with Louis Armstrong. Another song, with a similar theme, that Mr. Carmichael wrote with Johnny Mercer, is "Lazybones". My favorite version of that song is the one that Amos Garrett performed on Geoff & Maria Muldaur's fine "Sweet Potatoes" album.

When you mention Hoagy Carmichael, you can't help but talk about his great classic, "Georgia On My Mind", a song he wrote with lyricist Stuart Gorrell. Although Ray Charles practically made this song his own, who can forget The Band's great version with Richard Manuel's haunting vocal performance. Another wonderful version is Maria Muldaur's from Geoff & Maria Muldaur's "Pottery Pie" album, that also features an incredible guitar solo from the aforementioned Amos Garrett.

With these songs, Jack Teagarden & Louis Armstrong's "Rockin' Chair", The Band's "Rockin' Chair, Amos Garrett with Geoff & Maria "Lazybones", along with "Georgia On My Mind" by Brother Ray, The Band & Maria, one has the makings of a good CDR compilation disc. Anybody have any suggestions for other songs in a similar vein to add?

Posted on Mon Feb 25 18:30:01 CET 2002 from spider-tl021.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.181)

bob wigo

Great show Friday night in Trenton. My thanks to Levon and the Barn Burners for the gift of great music.

And thanks to you Butch for your kindness and generosity. Hope to see you all again soon.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 18:07:20 CET 2002 from schltns-3.demon.nl (212.238.196.9)

(they call me) Ragtime (Willie)

Rockin' Chair...

I always thought it's about old men coming to rest at the end of their days...

The Flying Dutchman's on the reef - in other words: he who was doomed to sail into eternity without ever finding a place to stay... has finally come home.

But intrigueing are the following lines:

I can hear something calling on me / And you know where I wanna be / Oh Willie do you hear that sound... (and a little bit further on) I Believe old rockin' chair's got me.

So: I think the speaker is not in the least satisfied to be home again... he keeps longing... and longing... but he has to face reality and has to say to himself: "I just want to get my feet back on the ground".

Peter what do you think... surprised you didn't do an article on this one just yet...

Posted on Mon Feb 25 17:44:55 CET 2002 from citrix1.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.5)

John Cass

I went to a great show this weekend at the Flynn Theatre in Burlington VT.. John Hammond's Wicked Grin and the Blind Boys Of Alabama.. great show but a funny thing happened as I was listening to John Hammond I was thinking to myself.. how much better Levon Helm & Barnburners are (in my opinion)at the same time I was thinking this my girlfreind nugged me and said "Levon's Band is alot better" I laughed to myself.. after the show I overheard a guy talking about Levon & Barnburner's and how much he enjoyed the show last year at the Higher Ground in Winooski (about 20 minutes outside Burlington) Its good to hear people talking about Levon as a Blues artist because the word is hopefully spreading that the Barnburners blues will stand up to any blues Band even ones that are headed by blues legends like John Hammond!!

Posted on Mon Feb 25 16:21:40 CET 2002 from sqd104.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.162.4)

Fred

that should have been "WON" not "one"...too many "STUPID" pills today

Posted on Mon Feb 25 14:43:13 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

j ~t

My favorite Band songs was always a toss up between Whispering Pines and Rockin' Chair...I just thought that Rockin Chair was about five guys who had been traveling non-stop for about eight years and finally settled down up there in the Woodstock hills..they must have felt like old men to a degree...veterans...and at last they had the time and the place to reflect on their own lives..living in the country...getting to know the old timers that had become their neighbors and friends...I always felt that the song was about comfort...settling down to a simpler life...if you want to take it apart sentence by sentence you can come up with all kinds of different takes but if you are going to feel it as a whole....to me it means one thing.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 12:28:04 CET 2002 from sqd104.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.162.4)

Fred

Chester: It was a psychological ploy on the part of The Great One (that Us against the World bit seems to a tactic used by everyone---even me---to varying degrees of success, although it's NEVER worked for me! I say we petiton the IOC to have GARTH, ROBBIE & LEVON perform at all future Olympics (Winter & Summer).

for those of you interested in how my daughter finished in her race...she placed second. She could have one but she tripped at the start, fell down, picked herself up and from 19th ended up 2nd. If it was me I would have stayed on the ground, emoted and then threaten to sue/boycott the 2nd grade!! "That kid tripped me!!!" "IT's a plot, nobody wants me to win", etc.

Well gotta go do the dishes...I think I'll put on NLSC. I always liten to The Band when it's my turn to do the dishes (when I clean up the house then it's only the blues; Jazz when I'm cooking supper, unless it's pasta then the music has to be Italian (classical or folk). Oh gotta go, the wife is giving me THAT look. Yikes

Posted on Mon Feb 25 07:48:20 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

Back at ya, wondering what the hell Kiss was doing performing at the olympic farewell, I can't believe that was the best they could do. Tough loss today for the good ole USA, great game, lots of great hockey played throughout and if we had to lose it's nice to see the folk's to the north get the gold, could of heard less complaining from the Great one though, I can't believe he really believes that everyone wanted to see the Canadian's lose, had to be a us against them ploy to get the Hab's to start playing some hockey, the man's got too much class for it to be anything else.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 06:24:25 CET 2002 from spider-ti033.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.188)

Bayou Sam

Feb. 25 - George Harrison's 59th birthday.

Happy Birthday Dark Horse - wherever you are....

Posted on Mon Feb 25 05:58:18 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

50 Years is along time to wait for a Gold Medal in Men's Hockey. It was worth the wait.

After the game tonight I went to the first ever National Canadian Jazz Awards. Sat about 15 feet from Oscar Peterson as he sat down at the piano with Dave young on bass. He hasn't lost his groove.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 04:38:42 CET 2002 from (62.31.64.2)

Al Edge

What's happened Jerry? I take it a gold medal in the Olympic ice hockey??

Nice one Canada. The land of snow melts the opposition!

Who did you beat in the final btw? I know it couldn't have been us like - unless everybody else dropped out or we discovered a remote controlled puck that is.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 04:32:15 CET 2002 from cpe-61-9-134-107.vic.bigpond.net.au (61.9.134.107)

Bill

Band collectors/completists might want to head to the record store in Adelaide's seaside suburb, Glenelg, for the el-cheapo Australian pressing of the Dutch compilation titled "The Weight". Same songs, same cover. Nearby in the B miscellaneous section is a '96 release of recordings by some pseudo-Byrds - among them, it appears from the writing credits, Danny McCullough (sp?) from the "Sky Pilot" days of Eric Burdon and the Animals. I didn't buy either, though I did pick up a 3-disk Nina Simone complilation. It's a wonder that she didn't record any Band songs - or did she?

Susan mentioned Maria Muldaur's "Sweet Harmony" album - in my view her best, featuring the guitar work of both Amos Garrett and David Wilcox (who also played together in an unrecorded Woodstock band called Juke - or Jook - with Billy Mundi and others. Wilcox, another amazing guitarist, had taken Amos' place in the Great Speckled Bird - with Buddy Cage, who Band Thought mentioned. I believe it was Wilcox who played on Ian and Sylvia's version of "Get Up Jake".

Posted on Mon Feb 25 04:26:24 CET 2002 from (62.31.64.2)

Al Edge

Well, well. Just read down below. Some kind words again. Thanks ever so.

Pete, what you said about my 'Band reflections', I have to say I would be honoured and totally thrilled for something I have written to be considered worthy of a place on this site.

I was SO pleased with how that piece turned out. It came from the heart and said exactly what I wanted it to say which as most of you will know isn't necessarily always the case when you're writing something. I just hope that others can identify with some of what I have to say. After all The Band's music is all about making those sort of connections and if that can be even remotely recreated in what we write on here then it can only be for the good. As Paul Godfey says SHINE ON.

Must say tho I do find it so natural writing about the boys and their music since their it has always connected so emotively with me. Writing about it when I can find the time is truly a labour of love as I'm sure it is with so many others on here as witnessed by the overall standard of posts which is often breathtaking.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 04:19:40 CET 2002 from cpe0000e8c550f8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.157.156.244)

Jerry Tenenbaum

Toronto is in a frenzy! There are people out in the streets downtown all over. After the game, people emptied out into the streets. Horns were honking. Flags were flying out of car windows. Poeple were really whooping it up. It is still going on hours after the game. My son lives right downtown and he said he's never seen anything like it. I don't think its so much the winning as it is the triumph of the spirit at a time when something like this is uplifting and without consequence. It just makes one feel plain good.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 04:01:45 CET 2002 from 12-249-69-3.client.attbi.com (12.249.69.3)

Chris

Hey can anyone tell me the session that Levon played with Max Weinberg. Saw a picture of it at www.drummerworld.com, which if everything goes right is the web page above.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 03:57:48 CET 2002 from cache-hay-hsi.cableinet.co.uk (62.31.32.130)

Al Edge

Fuckinhell girls and boys will yiz behave!!! I've only just got through "Dixie" and "Unfaithful Servant" and now yiz are all sat on the bloody "Rockin Chair" or collecting rags and friggin bones!!! Ever get the feeling you're off the pace??? I feel like the British skiers playing catch up to the Canadians!!

Incidentally loved the Bugs Bunny FUDD. Treeemendose. Do you think Wynona's fella sings about the JUDD below his feet after they've got a bit frisky??? Just curious like?? LOL

Posted on Mon Feb 25 03:42:44 CET 2002 from sqd104.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.162.4)

Fred

I listen to/look at/take Rockin' Chair at face value (laziness on my part?): it's a nice melancholic song about retirement. now if I may be a bit jingoistic: CA-NA-DA!! A question: what are KISS doing at the olympics?!?!!? They should have had GARTH do ALL the music for the closing ceremonies.( Ithink that should be a prerequisite for any future Olympics..ONLY GARTH does the opening and closing ceremonies!!! Well, gotta go watch my daughter run a race (we live right across from her school...I can watch from our balcony) CA-NA-DA (sorry to all the US GBers..not to rub salt in an open wound, but...CA-NA-DA! Oops there I go again!)

Posted on Mon Feb 25 03:27:37 CET 2002 from (62.31.64.2)

Al Edge

GEORGE HARRISON TRIBUTE CONCERT AT THE LIVERPOOL EMPIRE

A night of incredibly high emotion on the banks of the Mersey. The concert had sold out within a few hours of its being announced without a single appearing artist known. Has to be some sort of record.

Three thousand packed The Empire to the rafters to pay tribute to one of the city's most famous sons. On the night we simply did what we do best around here which is to have a good time with old friends. Tears, jokes, laughter but above all fine music filled the air.

As I said I would inevitably do I blubbed at least half a dozen times as the early song memories of those early Liverpool Fab Four days completely overwhelmed me - ["I'll Get You" really did get to me - after 38 years I finally found out what Paul meant by his lyrics] but nobody noticed as they themselves were too busy wiping away their tears too.

George will always remain in the hearts of his fellow Scousers. Being the quietest and most unassuming he was arguably remembered most fondly.

Some tremendous acts graced the famous old Empire stage tonight. Obviously the theme was 'George'. His own and other Beatles songs were featured throughout.

They were all there. Too many to mention but for me the stand outs were "Here Comes The Sun" from Steve Harley - who incidentally was utterly sensational throughout and someone for whom I shall certainly be on the look out in the future - and "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" by an incredible duo called 'Dare' featuring an organist [ex Thin Lizzie whose name escapes me] and an amazing acoustic guitarist/vocalist.

As local rebel rouser Pete Wylie - who was on next last - joked before launching into his tribute song - "I got the short straw - there's only Ringo 'B' sides left!!"

A pulsating "Badge" - which George had evidently penned with Eric Clapton - confirmed that Pete was only kidding. As ever. It's one thing we Scousers are good at as I'm sure most of you folks on here are sick to fuckin death of me telling yiz all.

I'll take away some treasured memories of the evening but the one that will linger will certainly be the final finale. As everybody was trooping off after a rousing "My Sweet Lord" with about 10,000 Hari Krishnas on the stage, the local jockey Billy Butler MBE [which stands for Mrs Butlers Eldest btw] came across to the microphone to introduce a person whom he termed a well known local drunk who had just popped in from the ale house round the corner.

Now I swear to all of you I have never behaved like a teenybopper in my entire life before. Even when I was one. I would rather be garrotted. In all the years I've been attending concerts I can solemnly assure you I have NEVER behaved like a besotted teenage girl. Sure I have shouted and yelled and hollered and roared and sang and danced and jigged about with the best of them. Never though have I screamed like a little teeny.

Well tonight I'm afraid I have to say that I broke that record. At the age of fifty-one I finally flipped my lid.

As the man strolled impromptu onto his hometown stage I swear the entire place went completely stark raving mad. Myself no more or no less than anybody else. Paul's arrival was, you see, totally unannounced and unexpected. Nobody dared even dream that another Beatle would lend their royal seal of approval to the occasion. By way of some sort of explanation, we Scousers are simply not a presumptuous breed. Very fucking demanding yes. But honestly we expect fuck all. Tonight was no different. Yes we'd have all loved the man to show up but nobody suspected it for one minute.

Hence, the sheer unadulterated mania. It really is the only way to describe how we all reacted. Everybody was hugging and kissing each other as if a winning goal - touch down to you lot - had just been scored in an FA Cup Final - Superbowl to you fellas. Only on such rare high drama sporting occasions have I ever seen displays of sheer emotion to equal it. In front of us two old grannies - and I mean grannies in their eighties - were jumping up and down with unbounded joy and exhilaration. After embracing my wife and sister I hopped over the back of their seats to join the jig of delight with the two old dears. The rapture continued for what must have been fully three minutes before the more sensible ones amongst us managed somehow to restore some order so a clearly overwhelmed Paul McCartney could speak.

He proceeded to tell us of his life in the land of submarines and the town where he was born. How he and George were the first Beatles to meet. From Ardwick Road, Speke they used to get the number 82 bus - cue thunderous cheers of recognition from the many thousands of 82 bus drivers who had somehow managed to get tickets for the show [joke btw] - into Liverpool. He was clearly finding it difficult to talk and said he would sing instead.

Unaccompanied he and us sang "Yesterday" with the lyrics modified for George. For the first verse some of us quietly clapped the beat to help him out as he was clearly finding it difficult with all the emotion. For the next verse and middle eight we sang with him. For the final bits he then motioned us to sing without him. Which we did. As sweetly as three thousand Scousers ever could. It was sublime. Never better. Not even back in 1965 I'm sure. We could all have been in his front parlour in Speke.

Incidentally, I apologise for no mention of The Band. But I'm sure Richard and Rick will have loved the show. Especially that last bit. They were in the 'gods' I understand. With John and George. Finest seats in the house.

Posted on Mon Feb 25 02:26:33 CET 2002 from 1cust148.tnt25.tco2.da.uu.net (67.200.184.148)

br

This afternoon while driving home from Baltimore, I listened to American Routes on the radio. One of the topics for discussion was visual music. Although the commentator concentrated on gospel music I find very little music more discriptive than that of the Bands. Everytime I hear "Rags and Bones" I not only see a picture but hear the sounds created by the lyrics.

Trolley car rings out the morning

Whistle blows at noon.

A cat fight breaks open the night

While watch dogs bay at the moon

A preacher on an orange crate

With a Salvation Army Band

And clicking along the cobbled stones

That's the sound of the ice cream man

It is my opionion that very few songs can top this one when it comes to visualizing and actually hearing the lyrics of a song.

BR

Posted on Mon Feb 25 02:24:36 CET 2002 from spider-tp074.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.209)

butch

those of us that witnessed Levon, The Barn Burners & Jimmy Vivino on Saturday night, in chester , ny,, know what THEY saw,,,,

one of those magic nights,,,

friday,, the BarnBurners played a hard-charging set of Low Down Dirty Blues, as a quartet,,

but

sat night was one for the books,,, truly magic,,,,,,,

Posted on Mon Feb 25 01:47:25 CET 2002 from sdn-ar-002ilurbap031.dialsprint.net (158.252.113.143)

Susan

More thoughts on Rockin' Chair.

What is the relationship of the Band's "Rockin' Chair" to the Hoagy Carmichael song of the same title? It's clear that the one inspired the other; the last line cried in performance "I believe old rocking chair's got me, " makes that plain. Both are narrated by aged persons contemplating the final trajectory of their lives. Yet they are very different songs; I'm not really sure how "I believe old rocking chair's got me" fits the rest of the Band song. - why this strong reference here.

I have the HC song in Maria Muldaur's version on her album Sweet Harmony. It's slow and sultry in both meanings. An elderly woman, or at least a woman who needs a cane, is sitting, probably on a front porch. There's a child around to fetch gin, possibly for that quintessential summer drink the gin and tonic. She seems to be longing for death, asking her 'dear old aunt Harriet" to send a 'sweet chariot', a reference to yet another song 'Swing Low, Sweet Chariot". Yet the music and performance don't sound at all like a wish for death. It conjures lazy summer images, slow and sleepy, but not sad at all.

The Band's 'Rockin' Chair' seems on the surface a similar song; an old sailor wants to spend his last years at home, doing nothing in particular. If you just listen to the music and bits of the words here and there you might thing that's what the song is. But a more detailed look at the lyrics shows a man and his friend who won't make it back home.

Now, can someone explain to me just what the last line of the Band song does to the rest of the song. Why invoke the Hoagy Carmichael song so directly?

Posted on Sun Feb 24 23:59:56 CET 2002 from hse-mtl-ppp68537.qc.sympatico.ca (64.229.185.156)

brown eyed girl

Hungry for goals
Orr....was poetry on ice....wishing the world could see poetry on ice again....off side
CAPTAIN MARIO LEMIEUX....CBC....HOCKEY NIGHT IN CANADA....CANADIAN SPORT AND PASSION
KARIYA....speedster and sniper....he is even able to skate with a stick in his skate.......
Emotional game....Eager to bring home gold medal after 50 years.....
Yessssss! Iginla!!!....next generation of Canadian hockey players!.....Yzerman....

I was extremely happy for Mario Lemieux....struggled through a disease which cut his career short and then miraculously recovered.....BACK ON THE ICE YEARNING TO RECLAIM THE GOLD MEDAL FOR CANADA....

Stompin' Tom Connors and Tragically Hip....THE HOCKEY SONG!.....Joni Mitchell....River...."I wish I had a river I could SKATE away on"....Joni Mitchell....Raised On Robbery...."Glued to that damn HOCKEY game".....Thank You Robbie Robertson and The Red Road Ensemble and all the Native Chiefs for your blessings!

Posted on Sun Feb 24 22:56:51 CET 2002 from (63.143.92.254)

Pete Rivard

Having lived South of the Mason Dixon line for four years (Houston, TX), I would occasionally see a bumper sticker proclaiming "Dumb white trash--and proud of it!"

One of my bandmates, and a local journalist, stated his view that the average Southerner was in equal parts both proud and ashamed of his heritage.

Listening to "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" with this statement in mind gives the lyric line a certain flavor.

While on the topic of the Civil War, I've lately discovered a writer by the name of Owen Parry who churns out highly readable period whodunits featuring Abel Jones, a Welsh immigrant and veteran of the India Mutiny, who is sucked into the War Between the States, is wounded at Bull Run, and finds himself detailed to various unsavory situations needing a solution. Anyone else stumble across this guy?

Posted on Sun Feb 24 21:14:23 CET 2002 from spider-wn043.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.168)

Pac (woman)

Hi everyone! Just scanned the most recent Guestbook entries and am sorry to have missed the GP/Burritos discussion. Over Christmas break I read the "Hickory Wind" bio on GP, followed by Pamela DesBarres' groupie book, "I'm With the Band." Highly recommend both! Have been listening to all the GP CDs with a much-deepened apreciation. Didn't even realize that there's a second CD release of "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" with Gram's voicetracks mixed back in [legal issues resolved], plus many lost recordings. Then this week Spring arrived in full song, along with the final concert of the "Down From the Mountain" tour. My god, did anyone see it???!!! Emmylou's solo of "Love Hurts" was all the more painful without GP's or anyone's accompaniment, but "Blue Kentucky Girl" with the White Sisters' true blue mountain harmonies and great old timey instrumental backups brought tears to our eyes. Ralph Stanley sent chills up the spine. Alison Krauss and her brilliant Union Station band kept the intimate jam feeling going. Patty Loveless was the biggest surprise of all -- turns out she grew up in a very poor coal mining town and lost her dad and grandfather both to black lung disease. Like dear Rick Danko, the music just rippled through her ever-moving body as she sang and listened. Her ballad about never getting out of Harlan County alive is powerful! Throughout the night, different musicians mixed and mingled onstage, each sharing with us the sadness of it being the final show and their love for each other that was so evident with every in-joke and hug. The microphones were those old RCA silver ice cream bar kinds, adding to the feeling of the Grand Ol' Opry on a Saturday night. Small theatre; perfect sound mix. We were treated time and time again to the sweetest harmonies by varying trios of women artists. Never saw Emmylou smile so brightly and have such joyful eye contact with fellow performers. Absolute perfection. Dobro lovers must check out Jerry Douglas! Norman Blake's guitar was like a warm blanket, intricately woven but soft and subtle. What a night. One of the best! Sorry if any of this is old news [too many pages of archives to scan through]. Rumor has it there'll be a second lengthy tour starting this summer. Don't miss them! And to those of you on the east coast, yes, it was a mild winter, and the songbirds thrived. Soon you'll be waking to their deafening chatter. Enjoy! Love to all. And Crabbie, you're the greatest!

Posted on Sun Feb 24 19:58:52 CET 2002 from spider-tp044.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.194)

Donna

I have to agree with Crabgrass, Judy Collins' rendition of Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne" is so hauntingly beautiful. When I lived in Virginia, there was a lake we all would go fishing and built campfires after dusk. I remember sitting there watching the sun go down, listening to the rushing of the water as the boats passed by, I would have that song in my head. It is where a song takes you, and that song always brings me back to that lake in Virginia.

Suzanne takes you down to a place by the river

You can hear the boats go by

You can spend the night forever

And you know that she's half crazy

That's why you want to be there

And she feeds you tea and oranges

That come all the way from China

And just when you want to tell her

that you have no love to give her

She gets you on her wave lenght

And lets the river answer

That you've always been her lover

And you want to travel with her

And you want to travel blind

And you think you maybe trust her

For she touched your perfect body with her mind

Posted on Sun Feb 24 19:56:01 CET 2002 from sc-hiltonhead2a-249.hhe.adelphia.net (24.49.232.249)

Amanda

I too am a big fan of the "Dixie" article by Peter Viney. I have refered to it more than once to help myself put into perspective the mixed emotions I feel for the Confederacy.

"Rockin' Chair" is so metaphorical that it could mean so many things to different people. I like to think that Robbie got his inspiration from meeting Sonny Boy Williamson and Muddy Waters and any other aging musicians that he was fortunate enough to get to know. When The Band had the encounter with Sonny Boy in Helena...Sonny Boy was up there in age and still living hard with liquor, wild women and such...still into that juke joint jumpin' kind of lifestyle. Maybe Robbie sensed that Sonny Boy or himself or anyone else couldn't ride the waves on those seven seas forever...that eventually that lifestyle would send you crashing to shore. I think what is beautiful about the song and Robbie's perception of life is that no matter where you roam it always feels good to put your foot back on the ground...the ground that is familiar and that means home to you. Just like Sonny Boy always came back to Helena. No matter how silly the people or conversations seemed to you as a young man/woman...they are somehow the sweetest things to have in your twilight years. The love for childhood friends...we never get over that. I know that the Mississippi River and Arkansas are a long way from the sea and Virginny. Robbie is such an inspired writer...I can easily see how he could find a relationship between both worlds.

God Bless Garth!

Posted on Sun Feb 24 19:39:10 CET 2002 from du-tele3-163.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.163)

Peter Viney

She queued four hours in pissing rain and didn’t get a ticket so my honour is intact – I will not after all be seeing Sir Cliff! Good. They gave out numbers to the queue. She got # 625. It's a 3000 seat hall. They allowed 6 tickets per head. Those at the front who’d invested 3 days got 12 between a pair. They sell for £150 on the internet, I’m told. But not to us. So … (a) why doesn’t he charge more rather than let the scalpers make a killing? (b) with that many people, why not restrict to two per head? The rest all end up with scalpers. Twas ever thus.

Listening to that Glen Campbell 12 string guitar instrumental album again. What’s the connection between ‘Dark As The Dungeon’ (Merle Travis) and ‘Hickory Wind’ (Gram Parsons-B. Buchanan)? Because the tunes are on the extremely similar side of similar. I’d never heard of the Merle Travis one before, and coincidentally Emmylou’s version of “Hickory Wind” was on the radio on Friday. I think Hickory wind is an improvement, BTW. But is it a lift?

Posted on Sun Feb 24 18:34:02 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tj031.proxy.aol.com (64.12.106.31)

Charlie Young

JTull: Reading your post that mentions the death of animator Chuck Jones in the same paragraph as words about the "blood or mud" discussion reminds me of the rare Bugs Bunny version of "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down." Though old Bugs' interpretation of the song was nothing like the mangled mess of the Baez hit single, the pesky wabbit clearly sings, "I swear by the FUDD below my feet..."

I guess that proves that there was connection between Chuck Jones and The Band after all!

Posted on Sun Feb 24 18:11:37 CET 2002 from intern2.wdse.org (131.212.19.41)

Marsen

Greetings to all here in this very active week in the GB! I just got back from a week in sunny Florida, and am now facing the stark reality of a grey and snowy Minnesota morning. Spent last night warding off post-vacation depression by spinning ROA and indulging in some home "remedies". Sure enjoyed reading the last week's posts, and killed off quite a bit of time at work in the process. I must say this site really makes the time fly while "working". It seems theres always something new to explore here, and just when you think you've seen it all, you stumble on to a goldmine. I echo Alan Edge's sentiments on Peter Viney's articles, and must have spent a week reading them when I discovered them,(not to mention Alan's great postings which are in a league of their own). Count my vote in, as one who would like to see Peter V. anaylize "Rockin' Chair", one of my all time faves. I think Susan has a pretty good take on it, and it's fun to see what others "hear". Good to hear more praise for the remastered ROA disc 2, which is tops on my list lately, just can't get enough, and it hasn't gotten old yet. In Florida while driving from Tampa to The Atlantic coast, we drove through a very crowded Orlando. My wife wanted to drive through Winter Park, I did not. We settled for a stop at a gas station off the interstate, on the edge of town. I diddnt have the morbid curiosity some may have, but was overcome with a very uncomfortable feeling while filling my gas tank, and I just had to get the hell out of there. Heck, if it was any other famous event that happened there, I'd probally go check it out, but when it's your all-time musical hero it's a very different story. I decided to try and forget that place, and got back on the Interstate. Lastly, Im sorry if I offended any Die-hard banjo enthusiastics by calling Pete Seeger the "Guru" of the banjo. I understand he may not be the most technicaly proficent player(like Roy Clark or Earl Scruggs...by the way, my favorite banjo tune has to be "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" with him and Lester) but when I think of Pete Seeger,I immediately think of a banjo. And, in his own genre his music has stood the test of time, and as someone else said, he's still out there playin'. Sorry if I'm unearthing the Seeger thread many were happy to see go, and again believe me, I haven't dusted off a Seeger album in years..................

Posted on Sun Feb 24 12:44:11 CET 2002 from (64.80.240.14)

Diamond Lil

Many thanks to Richard Wall (hi!) and Phil (hi!) and everyone else who posted about the Bottom Line show on Friday night. I would've given a limb to be there, but family obligations had to come first. I was, in fact, very disappointed that I missed it.

I wanted to say that it's so nice to read such nice words about Aaron in some of the latest posts. He's really been amazing in not only his performances, but in his wonderful way of not letting The Band.. or Rick.. be forgotten. So I just wanted to say 'thanks' to him.. for everything.

As some of you may already know, my beloved green car is now my dearly departed green car. Thankfully, there were no guestbookers in the trunk when it crashed. It's been replaced by a new, Burgandy car, which speeds and taligates just as well as the other one did :-) Hopefully it'll also bring me as many nice memories........

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.

Posted on Sun Feb 24 09:58:13 CET 2002 from du-tele3-001.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.1)

Peter Viney

Alan’s piece is one to add to the articles section of the site. Great. And Susan added some excellent comments on Rockin’ Chair. What with the reviews of Garth, this has probably been the most Band-focussed weekend in ages!

Which is why I’ll go aside to explain the most embarrassing moment of my life which is non-Band material. My wife’s sister is inordinately fond of Cliff Richard, as some people are (and it’s not a crime. It doesn’t make you a bad person), and my wife decided that a couple of tickets for his local November show would make an excellent birthday present. And liking Cliff makes birthdays and Christmases easy as there’s always a new album and video for each one, as there have been for 40 years. She discovered that tickets went on sale today at 8 a.m. Then we heard that people had been camping in the concert hall car park since last Thursday to get tickets. Undaunted we set the alarm for 7 a.m. ON A SUNDAY MORNING. I offered to drive her to the hall to save time parking. So at 7.15 a.m. we approached the hall to see a queue snaking right round the building and up the cliff (it’s located near the beach, so up “the” cliff, not “up Cliff”). “Well, as long as no one sees me,” I grumbled. Then we came round the corner to the theatre entrance where a line of cars were dropping off people to join the queue. I slowed to let her out and realized I was staring straight into a TV camera mounted on the pavement, filming the sad loonies who were up early to buy tickets for the unaged toothy clean-living evangelical knight. I tried to reach into the back seat for my floppy Van Morrison-style black hat to conceal my face, but I could see that little green light glowing above the lens. So what do you do? Storm over and demand that they do not use your image without permission? But that’s just a bigger laugh for the TV team. Hope the sun was reflecting on the windscreen? But I always knew that the mild vanity of a (slightly) personalized registration plate would be my come-uppance one day. So, I left my wife to the queue. I wound down the window as I passed the news team and croaked, ‘They’re not for us. They’re for her sister. Honest.’ But no one believed me. Or cared. So I got back home and made myself a cup of tea. Then I just phoned her on the mobile, ‘Sod it. My reputation is in total shreds. Buy four tickets. After all this trouble we might as well see the bastard ourselves.” Well, I didn’t say ‘bastard’ I said the word that is on the BBC’s offensive words list at number one.

Posted on Sun Feb 24 09:13:09 CET 2002 from rneray.ne.mediaone.net (65.96.234.100)

WheelOnFire

Saw both sets at The Bottom Line last night -- and I felt as if I was in another dimension for a couple of hours.

Garth was conjuring up spirits with his organ playing (plus some heart-rending sax and accordion), Professor Louie’s (Aaron Hurwitz) singing was in fine New Orleans form and his orchestration was a joy to hear and behold (his piano and accordion playing were also pretty sweet), the horn players led by Tom Malone were soaring (just think of the horn parts in “Life is a Carnival” and “Ophelia”, for example), “Miss Marie” was hot (and added that hot gospel mix to the vocals), the fiddle player (Larry Packer) was right there whenever Aaron pointed him towards the solo, Buddy Cage on pedal steel was studied and tasteful, the drummer (Gary Burke) was solid (as were the bass player and rhythm guitarist) … and we all just flew with them in this timeless musical paradise for the evening.

Here’s the “official” set list as it was written down for the band (the encores were different in each set, and I didn’t write those down):

1. Don’t Wait
2. Twilight
3. Ophelia
4. Forever Young
5. Carnival
6. Blind Willie McTell
7. Next Time U C Me
8. The Weight
9. Mr. Luck
10. Shape I’m In
11. Tired of the Blues
12. Makes No Difference
13. Last Train Out
14. Chest Fever
15. Scarlet Begonias
16. Cripple Creek

A very sincere and heartfelt thanks to everyone who made this show happen.

… and special thanks to Lil for pointing me in the right direction when, last Saturday night in the chat room next door, I innocently asked her if she knew where I could hear Garth play.

-- Phil

Posted on Sun Feb 24 06:29:56 CET 2002 from 1cust74.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.74)

Jeffrey

Okay Professor Louie! Did you tape the show? I know a few folks who would pay top dollar for it I'm sure! Is this going to be Garths next release?

Posted on Sun Feb 24 06:13:12 CET 2002 from spider-te031.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.186)

Rich

Fabulous show at the Bottom Line last night, at least the late show was. Can't help but wonder how many more times we'll get to see a set like this played live again, but it was the best $22.50 I've ever spent, believe me. Professor Louie deserves a lot of credit for carrying the torch.

Did anyone else notice that Garth seems to have lost a lot of weight? He didn't look unhealthy, and definitely seemed to be into the whole experience, but I wonder if all the financial stress has taken a toll.

I doubt the economics of an 11-piece outfit of world class musicians in a half (maybe two-thirds?) filled club will make this an ongoing thing, but if it ever happens again, run, don't walk. It was more than I expected, and I expected a lot. I'm still singing Young Blood 24 hours later. Can't get it out of my mind. Wow.

Posted on Sun Feb 24 06:05:01 CET 2002 from 209-239-210-142.oak.jps.net (209.239.210.142)

Phil

Turn the stern and point to shore - these seven seas won't carry us no more... what a beautiful lyric. Probably got the idea from PH's A Salty Dog.....just kidding.... Turn the stern... I love it. Only RR can pull off stuff this great.

Posted on Sun Feb 24 05:01:47 CET 2002 from spider-ti013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.178)

Dave Z

Thanks for the posts on the Garth Band show... you lucky dogs... Good to see Pete R back again... I can't hang out with the Road Warriors here... so I go catch Pete's band whenever he reunions in Hastings... Good stuff, good people... and his banjo on Downtown Train always gives me the shivers... We are still fighting recurring colds here... and the best remedy has been holing up on the couch under the blanket with the twins watching a new DVD I just got... Gord in Reno... Today we watched Levon on TNT... Fire Down Below... my little drummer boy actually recognized him... my other little keyboard boy was whining "I'm wanta watch Indian videos"... meaning RR soundtracks... I had to separate them when things escalated into... "he's touching me"... great movie, though... I didn't realize all the stars in that movie... musically too...

Posted on Sun Feb 24 05:01:14 CET 2002 from sdn-ar-002ilurbap320.dialsprint.net (158.252.112.226)

Susan

Serendipitously, the accompaniment for my walk today was the 2nd disk of the remastered Rock of Ages, with a particularly fine live version of Rockin' Chair. I listened to it twice, and got to thinking about what is really going on in the song. I've always vaguely thought that the narrator is talking to his friend Willie, who is on this ship with him, and that Levon is singing Willie's part. This does not really hold up in a close look at the lyrics.

It starts " Hang around, Willie, boy. Don't you raise the sails any more This suggests that everybody's on land, and the narrator does not want Willie to set sail. The narrator (I'll call him N) wants to go home to Virginny, and take Willie with him.

But the second verse sets a different scene. They are at sea, and Willie's working hard; N wants to 'Turn the stern and point to shore" Now this is a fine idea, but how they are going to do it without raising sail I don't know. Those sails in the first verse must be metaphorical sails; perhaps Willie wants to keep on, and N is trying to persuade him to head for home.

The third verse gets really confusing. In a wonderfully abstruse way it suggests that there's some danger, since N sees or hears the Flying Dutchman on the reef, a bad omen. N thinks they've used up all their time; are they going to die in a storm at sea? Yet "This hill's too steep to climb". Is this a metaphorical hill, or a big wave?

The next line is poignant; N has been longing to be home to 'sooth away the rest of our years', yet now 'The days that remain ain't worth a dime" I take this to mean they won't have those days of peace and reverie; it's all ending here and now.

Then one more chorus, but the verb changes. Instead of we're gonna it's would'a . The big rockin' chair won't go nowhere, and neither will Willie and N.

The cry "I believe old rockin' chair's got me" brings to mind the Hoagy Carmichael song. I'd not heard it in years, but remembered I had Maria Muldaur's version on vinyl. That's a song about ageing and dying as well, but in that song the narrator seems to be haveing that peaceful, homely end that Willie and N don't get.

Posted on Sun Feb 24 04:41:10 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-ti041.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.166)

JTull Fan

Tried to post this earlier today but got locked up: We lost another one. I know this is non-Band and even non-music related, but Chuck Jones left us today at 89. Mr. Jones was one of the premier animators and directors behind Warner Borther's Looney Tunes, AKA Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, road Runner, etc. Many thanks for making my world a happier one filled with smiles and laughter. What a gift you shared with us! MUD/BLOOD: I Think Dixie is more ....I don't know...but 'blood' resonates more emotionaly. As a former Civial War guide for the U.S. Nat's Park Service (Chancellorsville, Stonewall Jackson's mortal wounding) I can tell you that 'blood' is historically accurate and defensable as a lyric. As a Chesterfield County, VA (bordering Richmond to the south, and the place where Chesterfield Cigarrettes get their name)resident who recently struggled to plant a fan palm tree, I can tell you that 'mud' is also historically accurate. Certain Virginia soils have a quality that allows thaem to absorb infinite amounts of rain and water, only to become muddier and heavier. it is truly a phenomenom. Historically, search the web for Civil War General Ambrose Burnsides famous 'mud march' around Fredericksburg, Va, in early 1863. The Union soldiers were literally marching with their feet caked in pounds of sticky Virginia mud, much to their misery. So either blood or mud are historically accurate.

Posted on Sun Feb 24 04:17:00 CET 2002 from 1cust248.tnt38.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.86.248)

Crabgrass

Judy Collins' beautiful rendition of Cohen's "Suzanne" is one of the great classic '60s "Folk Songs" which I never tire of hearing. The guitar work is particularly exquisite. I've never heard another version (and don't really care to) except for Cohen's own which is not as good in my opinion as his singing is always dreary and depressing. Collins, however, lifts the song to new heights.

Posted on Sun Feb 24 00:55:33 CET 2002 from 0-1pool35-39.nas1.cincinnati1.oh.us.da.qwest.net (63.232.35.39)

Jenny T

Our brand new computer crashed on Monday, and so I have missed many threads here.

Someone mentioned Steve Forbert and I asked my husband if he had ever heard of him and it turns out he has an album of his so I played it today. (Sorry Lil about the run-on and any to follow.) But I couldn't locate the song or songs about Rick on his website. Can anyone help me here?

Also regarding writing credits and Ry Cooder, I got out my Little Village CD (Little Village=Ry Cooder, John Hiatt, Jim Keltner and Nick Lowe--a pretty good line-up, eh?) Every song is credited to all the guys. It is a good little CD with a sort of eco-justice song (Do You Want My Job?), a funny, sexy eco-themed song which there should be more of is this world (Solar Sex Panel)and one of those hot car/hot girl songs (She Runs Hot) at which I should maybe be offended but always love (esp. Ramrod by Bruce). Plus one song mentions Eagle Rock, the part of LA where I grew up--a part that does not have the zip code 90210, but isn't dangerous enough to make the news too often so almost nobody has ever heard of it. (It sticks up between Glendale and Pasadena.)

I liked the list of good things out of Canada, except for Leonard Cohen. I know he has some fans here and I don't want to step on any toes, but way too many people warble away on that song Suzanne about the girl who is so fascinating because she is half nuts and buys overpriced oranges. Maybe I am missing his genius, and I don't know too many of his other songs, but I would be happy never to hear Suzanne again.

Posted on Sun Feb 24 00:33:57 CET 2002 from (63.143.93.254)

Pete Rivard

Damn, Al. Welcome to the Guestbook.

Posted on Sun Feb 24 00:03:14 CET 2002 from cache-udd.cableinet.co.uk (194.117.151.68)

Al Edge

BAND REFLECTIONS

This website really is like discovering buried treasure for someone like me. You take one of those nifty little gardening trowels from the shed, then you keep daintily burrowing away like a determined little jack rabbit and hey presto - precious little gems await you.

Just finished trawling through the analysis of 'The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down' and 'Unfaithful Servant'. Now this has probably been said many times before - and if it hasn't then it damned well should have been - but take a bow Peter Viney for your truly exquisite and lovingly crafted expositions of these wonderful songs of The Band.

These two in particular have been delights.

A tribute also while I'm at it to so many of the other regulars on here, notably I seem to recall Pat Bennett, Amanda and David Powell for their contributions to the 'Dixie' debate. It is fitting that Peter has woven your impassioned and informed views so painstakingly into his synopsis on a piece of music that is so dear to all our hearts. Having been an avid regular on some football [soccer] forums that themselves have hosted extremely credible football - and broader - debates I have to say, on the evidence I have seen, the standard of debate on this Forum is second to none.

The one on 'Dixie' seems, however, to have been quite exceptional. The song seems to have touched so many people so profoundly. I only wish I could have been around at the time of the debate. I would have loved to have been a part of it. Certainly it has made me reflect on when I heard the song for the first time and just what it was I felt back then.

I purchased the single 'Cripple Creek' on its black Capitol label from Myerscough's record shop in South Road, Liverpool when it was released in '69. When I got home and played it in the solitude of my tiny boxroom I can recall thinking to myself - "yeah, not bad, maybe not quite as good as 'The Weight' but you'll do for me boys...probably grow on me, anyroad."

Then I turned the disc over and played the song on the flipside. The one with the title that seemed as if it must be too lengthy and cumbersome to fit into a conventional pop song.

How right I was. As it crackled and soared out of my Dansette, I was stunned.

Now this wasn't in that typical 'bowl me over' way that you got with the likes of 'Heard it Through the Grapevine' or 'Like a Rolling Stone' or 'Brown Sugar' or stuff like that. Rather it was in a far more subtle way. A unique way, in fact. I found myself thinking along the lines of "now listen here fellas, you simply CANNOT do a song like this... nobody can…it's just not the way these things are done".

For a start it was all too sober and sobering; too profound and historical. Too precise and too perfect, even. And yet, at the same time, it was also so completely fucking outrageous - in a reverse way to rock 'n' roll's usual outrageousness, of course. In this instance, you simply felt it was outrageous that a young rock group could actually come up with a song and a sound so mature; so battle hardened and weary as these guys had somehow managed to do with 'Dixie'. Sure 'Big Pink' had kind of prepared us for it. Softened us up a mite. But it had not quite prepared us enough to expect this level of accomplishment. Why it was almost verging on the classical in its execution.

More than anything else, it really did sound like the men singing it had just trooped away from the horrors of Gettysberg or some other nightmare. These were guys that were staking their testimony as to what had actually happened; to what they had actually witnessed happening. Listening to their story as they chewed on their tobacco was a hundred times more authentic than if you'd watched a score of films or documentaries on the subject. You could sense their angst; feel their weariness; share their pain.

And, of course, when the LP came out and you saw that brown sepia cover, you just knew your hunch had been proved right. These guys WERE indeed straight off that famous battlefield.

Reflecting now on my subsequent absorption into The Band's music I can see what must have actually transpired in my own case. What 'Dixie' did along with those other flawless songs on 'The Band' album - but undoubtedly more so than any of those others - was to form for me a complete whole with the songs of the preceding 'Big Pink' album. It brought a symmetry to the proceedings. It made the connection, affording me the opportunity to begin to understand - instinctively most certainly not consciously as far as I was concerned - the statement these fellows were trying to make. That message was not so much a lien to preaching but merely to telling it the way it was. The way it had always been. The way they had been told it. They were relaying their heritage and, I suppose more to the point, what they, themselves, stood for.

Sure, on their own, that first clutch of songs on 'Big Pink' had been something truly wondrous. The sheer togetherness and democracy of the sound had pulled you in and wrapped itself around you with its warmth and humour, its candour and its mystery. Its almost cavernous looseness had lent you the space to find your way into the songs alongside these master craftsmen. Paradoxically, their unparalleled tightness had made you gasp in awe. No feeler gauge in existence could ever get between these fellows.

Then there were the voices, of course. These truly were dead ringers for something like you ain't ever seen…or heard. Why old Jed Clampett himself sounded positively Queen's English in comparison to these fellows. The thing was, you never knew whose wails were who's. The rot gut moonshine lead of one. The proverbial country cousin drawls of two or three others. Then they would all melt into one. Then another would suddenly appear from round the corner like some friendly neighbour dropping in. Then yet another would pop up his head as if through some hatch from underneath the floorboards with some throwaway back-up line. At times it was as if half the neighbourhood were chiming in and out. You simply couldn't keep track.

It was great fun to try, though.

Bottom line was, 'who cared if it said on the album sleeve notes that these fellows were from Ontario?' As far as their "you've got to keep the engine churnin" inflection evidenced, these guys were country bumpkin American. Pure and simple.

Yet, as the more delicately crafted delights of 'The Band' unfolded, the full picture started to emerge. Gradually, it all became that bit clearer. Piece by piece, you got to know from just where all that homeliness and sense of community you had felt with 'Big Pink' had originated. Precisely why it had all sounded so authentic and so real. The fact was The Band were actually offering you a thick slice of American life and a huge dollop of American culture and history. You never quite understood it all but one thing was for sure. You were on pretty safe ground with these boys. They were not out to dupe you. What you were seeing and hearing was very much what you were getting. And that in a nutshell was an America that for quite some time had been obscured by events elsewhere. Events that had taken everybody else's eye off the ball. Except, of course, these lovely fellows.

In my own case it was an America I knew very little about. These were not just the Davy Crockett or Buffalo Bill Cody characterisations with which I was so familiar. This was not simply Mississippi riverboats and lonesome tumbleweed blowing through some Wild West ghost town. We weren't just picking bales of cotton or hunting bison here. Nor was it simply all that wonderful American popular music either. Sure there were snatches of all of these. With The Band, though, there was much much more besides.

For this, rather, was the whole deal. In other words, this was about the ordinary folks, the ordinary places, the ordinary music. This was the ordinary everyday things. Not just the celluloid heroes, the glamorous settings and such like and so forth. Sure they had their place too. They were all part of the same American melting pot. The Band's take, however, was the real deal - the America that lies within the heart and soul of every American. That sense of identity that must only come when a people come together in the way Americans have. Not so much a patriotism but more of an extended community. It is a rare commodity, indeed. Perhaps it is unique to America. Certainly we in Britain do not have it. Sure there exists a patriotism but nothing like this extended American neighbourhood. That American feel.

The Band's second album in tandem with their first - and in particular with the haunting and brutal honesty of 'Dixie' - managed to capture vital strains of that feel; much of the essential spirit of that broad American community. It made outsiders such as myself feel as if we could connect with it, too. Quite what it must have done to native Americans I can scarcely imagine - though clearly the delicious irony of the Band's achievement has not been lost on Jaime Robbie Robertson in the intervening years as he has sought to make reparations to natives even more indigenous.

Whether the boys in The Band set out with such an impossible target in mind must remain uncertain. Sure people who are blessed from the heavens with such talent as they possessed would have harboured high artistic ideals. Inevitably, too, they were always going to retain an integrity consistent with those ideals. To entertain the notion that they were going all out to capture the very soul of their [four fifths] adopted homeland on vinyl is probably stretching credibility. Personally, I feel they probably just did their darnedest to be true to the gifts that had been bestowed upon them. The fact that their best was enough to create two monuments to their country to rank with any other in history is simply Americans' good fortune.

And the rest of us too, of course.

POSTSCRIPT

Returning to the subject of the song 'Dixie' itself, it was particularly illuminating within the debate that the ground beneath the boys feet figured so strongly. The actual debate centred on whether Robbie wrote "I swear by the 'blood' - or the 'mud' - below my feet".

Now, I suppose like most others I have always sung "blood". Not only is that what I would have sworn Levon sings but anything else would seem like a sacrilege.

And yet would it? In the context of what I've been trying to say in this piece about the entire thrust of what The Band were about at this stage of their career - i.e. quietly yet joyously proclaiming America's heritage - the use of the word "mud" now actually seems to make perfect sense. As a metaphor for the very lifeblood of any poor farmer the ground - or in Virgil's case the mud - below your feet ranks pretty high on the list.

Woody Guthrie in that great celebratory national anthem of his for the ordinary American chose the power of the term "your land" to convey what he felt about the very spirit of his country. Is not The River Mississippi too - itself a crucial part of America's metaphorical lifeblood - the Big Muddy. For me either term - 'mud' or 'blood' is perfectly congruous and, I must say, I AM beginning to be swayed towards "mud". It will, however, always remain a moot point I feel.

One lyric in the song that has always leapt out at me is where Virgil almost rues that "you can't raise a Kane back up when he's in defeat". Some in the debate felt this to be incongruous with the almost defiant sub-text of the narrative - i.e. that spirit of Dixie rising up again.

I can understand such a view. I would have the same feelings regarding we 'Scousers' - Liverpudlians - rising up in similar circumstances. I daresay any downtrodden folk can sometimes feel that way. Personally, however, I have always seen this line as a key one in the song. To me it represents the fragility and sheer human vulnerability that even a young Virgil can see is present in all of us. These Kanes are tough hombres. They have been through a lot. Bottom line is, however, they are only human. Mortal souls. They are nothing special. Fact is, of course, their very humanity makes them very special indeed. That line warms me to Virgil and his family more than any other in the song.

God, I love The Band, you know. What they created truly is immortal.

Posted on Sat Feb 23 23:54:45 CET 2002 from du-tele3-079.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.79)

Peter Viney

… but if enough people here add comments on "Rockin Chair" I'd be happy to do another "compilation job" on it.

Posted on Sat Feb 23 23:52:27 CET 2002 from du-tele3-079.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.79)

Peter Viney

Started on Rockin Chair a couple of times and never finished it. But I agree with Pete that it's pretty much what it says it is. As such it's masterly - the image "The Flying Dutchman's on the reef …" was singled out in the 1970 Time article, and I would rate it as one of Robbie's best lyrics, but I couldn't find much to add.

Robbie Robertson: "Most people are knocked out by younger people. I’m knocked out by older people. Just look at their eyes. Hear them talk. They’re not joking. They’ve seen things you’ll never see. "

Posted on Sat Feb 23 20:50:42 CET 2002 from (207.88.77.196)

tom bassett

this is great... maud is my 1st cousin, and I used to play with her and bruce as kids in Boise...I love The Band..Garth played for our christmas eve party once, I'll be forever grateful for that..the olympics are awesome here..I wish The Band could've played at the medals!

Posted on Sat Feb 23 20:05:19 CET 2002 from (63.143.92.254)

Pete Rivard

Just finished perusing the lyrics to "Rockin' Chair" and checking to see if Mr. Viney had pursued that one in an article. I have to conclude that the lyrics are just so straight forward that there's not much subtext to mine. I don't get an addiction layer in the lyrics at all.

I was startled to see "Dipin' snuff". I always heard that line as "If it's enough".

Anyway, there are several remarks buried in various articles regarding the Band's rejection of the "Don't trust anyone over 30" ethos of the 60's. I see Rockin' Chair as an artfully rendered imagining of what it must be like to have most of your life behind you, instead of ahead.

Does anyone suppose that this innate respect for their elders grew from the Band's inclusive and broad listening habits: Sonny Boy, Pop Staples, Bill Monroe, or just their general upbringing?

Posted on Sat Feb 23 18:39:09 CET 2002 from du-tele3-098.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.98)

Peter Viney

Nick- a question I’ve often thought about. If I were an executive producer of film music (it’s not too late – just e-mail me, Mr Speilberg, I can start tomorrow. Morning if you prefer. No need to send a car. I’ll get there under my own steam) I couldn’t think of anyone better than Garth, who worked on both TLW and Raging Bull with Robbie. I suspect that there are only two places to live if you want to do film music. London (UK)’s the second one but a long way behind. You have to be on the spot to get the commissions. That’s all I can think. I think Garth would do wonderful work – that NYC concert sounds wonderful too. I can think of several people in the British film business with great reputations who found the work dried up fast when they moved too far outside of London. With LA, I’d guess it’s even more so. On which, our GB contributors from California seem to have disappeared. No doubt a lot of the top ten film music guys live outside LA, but if you’re John Williams they come to you – the ability to blend Holst and Korngold is clearly valuable. If you’re not John Williams, you have to be on the scene – by which I mean living right around the corner rather than hanging out with the stars.

Good to See Pete Rivard’s post. If you’re Bela Fleck it’s not pretentious to play Bach on the banjo. If you believe in simplifying folk so that the masses can sing along, then proving you can knock off a bit of Bach too probably is.

Posted on Sat Feb 23 17:39:37 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tc062.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.177)

Band Thought

Friends,

What a terrific night of music last night in the friendly confines of Manhattan's Bottom Line. "A Night Of The Band Music with Garth Hudson" lived up to every expectation, and was extremely well organized and conducted by Professor Louie Horwitz. With a stellar cast that included Louie and the Crowmatix, the legendary Buddy Cage, Tom Malone and a kickin' horn section, Larry Packer and, of course, The Maestro Garth, the two hour show spanned the history of the The Band's studio work.

Beginning somewhat unassuming with a mid-tempo version of "Twilight," the 11-piece stage force was hitting the mark right from the beginning. During the opener, it brought back strong memories of Rick standing on the very same stage not all that long ago, solo with just guitar in hand. As Adam organized the evening (and he did so with a great knowledge of The Band's musical and personal history), it was obvious that he picked "Twilight" as the opener in honor of Rick. And it worked. I still miss Rick and his endless roadshows.

Although this description of the setlist is not in order, Adam cherrypicked gems from virtually every Band album: "The Weight" and "Chest Fever" from MFBP, "Up On Cripple Creek" from the Brown Album, "Shape I'm In" from SF, "Life Is A Carnival" from Cahoots, "It Makes No Difference" "Ophelia" and "Twilight" from the NLSC era, and the post '76 Band gems "Blind Willie McTell," "Forever Young," and "Don't Wait." It was pretty clear from the setlist that Adam, who handled the bulk of the vocals, has a vocal style similar to Levon's. The night also included a few Crow classics like "Next Time You See Me" (the band had an absolutely stellar drummer who did not miss a beat). One low light of the evening was the use of Buddy Cage, the terrific pedal steel player of "Panama Red," "Meet Me In The Morning," Great Speckeled Bird and New Riders fame. He had few and far between opportunities to show his stuff, but then, The Band's music was never really meant for pedal steel. Just the same, the few moments me had were worth the Weight. I spoke to Buddy after the show, and we laughed about the story where he wanted to kick Dylan's butt for chastizing him about how he was recording his pedal steel during the sessions for Blood On The Tracks.

And then there was Garth. Man, if this is the new Garth, bring on more. A whirlwind Genetic Method (prelude to Chest Fever) lasted a good 10-15 minutes. Band fans live for moments like these. As I am listening to Garth, I cannot believe that Robbie never has the urged to just pick up the guitar and play a gig or two a year; the music is so damn timeless and still has such life to it. But Garth was, as always, the subtle star of the show, horns and accordians included. It is pretty evident that he still has a great love for playing live, and having the opportunity to shake his hand and thank him after the show made me realize how strong his mitts still are - yes, Garth will be playing well into his 80's with that grip. We should all be so fortunate.

To suggest that the music of The Band has been silenced with the misfortunes of the past few years is absolutely not true. This night proved that The Band's music is alive and well and still kickin' with a bunch of Woodstock-based musicians. Now here is a very serious request. Adam, for all of The Band fans around the country, please, please - take this show on the road. Make this an annual kick-off event at The Bottom Line; I'm sure you can enlist musicians from all parts of the country to join the caravan in local cities. For a Band fan of 30 years, thanks for bringing the music to life (live) again. Great, great, stuff.

The music of our lives.

John from New York

Posted on Sat Feb 23 17:20:56 CET 2002 from sqd104.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.162.4)

Fred

I forgot to mention Old Dutch Potato Chips (salt & vinegar). MEA CULPA

Posted on Sat Feb 23 17:01:10 CET 2002 from dialup-65.58.191.36.dial1.stamford1.level3.net (65.58.191.36)

Richard Wall

Whew! Blistering show last night at the Bottom Line! The marquee read "Music of The Band featuring Garth Hudson." Aaron, Marie and the Crowmatix breathed new life into the classic songs. It was great to hear those horn charts played live again, so skillfully and with such passion. Everybody played an exhilarating set, especially Tom Malone, Larry Packer, Buddy Cage and Garth himself. I wish I could've stayed for the second set. I bet they're repairing the roofs at NYU this morning.

Bravo and thanks to everyone.

Posted on Sat Feb 23 16:58:23 CET 2002 from cranberry.cache.fi.jippii.net (195.197.160.12)

Kalervo

Mr Guerilla:I sometimes wrote that Gomez is one of the few bands these days which has things in common with the Band..Right... Yeah Travis is a fine band, too. But other bands too, which are using banjo in their music like the wonderful High Llamas....

Lil: I have not much empathy towards the hockey millionaires (how they managed to pass the doping tests??)but I really wish Canada will win, because I am, and many others are bit tired of American patrionism....Canadian treasures: How could you forget two of the greatest:Bruce Cockburn and k.d. lang!!!Or Glenn Gould..or...

Posted on Sat Feb 23 16:34:43 CET 2002 from spider-ti061.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.201)

Bayou Sam

Peter = thanks for those Beatle bits. I'll have to see if I can find that issue here in Nu Yawk.

Paul could certainlly pull off those negro-like tunes couldn't he :-)

Posted on Sat Feb 23 12:18:41 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tc022.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.157)

Nick

Mr. Viney, Your post about The Beatles was great. Do you have any thoughts on my post about Garth?

Posted on Sat Feb 23 11:19:52 CET 2002 from du-tele3-152.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.152)

Peter Viney

Do pick up the magazine “NME Originals: The Beatles- The Complete Story” which is a compilation of New Musical Express cuttings from 1962 to 1970. A few choice bits (148 pages of more):

Paul McCartney: “We don’t like protest songs of course, because we’re not the preaching sort and in any case, we leave it to others to deliver messages of that kind.” (but no more on Pete Seeger)

From a December 1965 review of a Glasgow show: “Then it went straight into the belter, ‘She’s a Woman’. Paul on vocal, he almost screamed this negro-styled raver into the mic …’ (How language has changed!)

And one that never emerged on tape. NME in May 1965 describes an impromptu concert on the ‘Help’ film set. The Beatles were behind their equipment when a camera reload was called for, so they just played through the break for fun, performing It’s Not Unusual, Amor, How High The Moon, P.J. Proby’s ‘I Apologise’, Michael Row The Boat … then (quote) “John sang a rendition of Catch The Wind. Or was it The Times They are A Changing?”

(On Bob Dylan)”It was from the lips of John, Paul, George and Ringo that most of us who are now his fans learned his name.” (1965)

Posted on Sat Feb 23 10:32:26 CET 2002 from spider-wq074.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.193)

Nick

Does anyone know why Garth Hudson hasn't with Robbie Robertson since the mid-eighties? And if not, why? Garth's "Sea to the North" cd is fantastic! Surely with RR's hollywood contacts he could get the greatest keyboard player of all time (and friend) to produce a movie soundtrack. Does anyone know what's going on here?

Posted on Sat Feb 23 09:01:40 CET 2002 from c5300-2-ip202.albany.thebiz.net (216.238.225.202)

bea

CONGRATULATIONS TO NORWAY!!!

THE OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL FOR CURLING!!!

YOU'RE THE BEST!!!

Posted on Sat Feb 23 06:44:54 CET 2002 from sqd104.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.162.4)

Fred

George Vecsey forgot: The Garden City (St. Catharines, Ontario), The Brier, Stompin' Tom Connors,the Welland Canal,the mighty Niagara River, the house my grandfather built on the corner of brown & Gordon st. in Westfort, the long since defunct Westfort Hurricanes, Alex Delvecchio, Banff & surrounding areas, Broadview Saskatchewan (only because the train forgot to stop there and had to back up) John Candy, toques, Fort William, Ontario (the jury's still out on Port Arthur, though). I could go on, but you know WE Canadians are a humble bunch.

Posted on Sat Feb 23 04:47:59 CET 2002 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Stanley Landau

Lil: I loved your post. Who even knew we had eight pin bowling?!

Posted on Sat Feb 23 02:22:00 CET 2002 from 64-80-55-193-static.surferz.net (64.80.55.193)

Lil Again

Hmmm...seems when one cuts and pastes, paragraphs tend to disappear. Sorry bout that. I have a headache trying to read my previous post.
Jan: Could you please paragraph it for me? Thanks. Hug :-)

Posted on Sat Feb 23 02:15:16 CET 2002 from modem749.netkonect.net (194.164.15.241)

Mr guerilla

On the banjo thing Travis received a lot of praise for their use of the instrument on their latest album and their favourite record is MFBP.

I have noticed there has been a bit of discussion on Ryan Adams, I have only heard it a couple of times but think it sounds pretty good. A contemporary group who I really like and who have some similarities to The Band are Gomez. They have three lead singers are a great live act and mix up their influences. They have a new album out soon but I strongly recommend their 1998 debut Bring it on and the follow up Liquid Skin. For me they are the pick of the current UK bands.

Finally I would like to know if anyone knows what the song Rocking Chair is about. I have always thought that it is the best song about addiction ever written. Is that just my screwed up take on it? Also hi to everyone, this site really is the best thing on the net and thanks to you all I learn something new nearly everytime I visit. I feel like I want to invite everyone to stay, sort of old family friends. I think that's Rick's influence. Sorry I'm tired and emotional, I'll er get my coat (love u Alan)

Posted on Sat Feb 23 02:09:27 CET 2002 from 64-80-55-193-static.surferz.net (64.80.55.193)

Diamond Lil

Saw this article in yesterday's NY Times. Thought some of you would appreciate reading it. Was pleasantly surprised to find The Band mentioned.

Now Canada Must Duck the Upset February 21, 2002 By GEORGE VECSEY WEST VALLEY CITY, Utah - IN this fabulous Olympic hockey tournament, there have been six or seven countries that swore, absolutely swore, they invented this sport, or at least purchased it, in the case of the United States. However, we worry for Canada. We worry a lot. Having expended so much national angst on Jamie Salé and David Pelletier, Canada then had to fight off the lurking suspicion that its figure skating officials were way over the top in lobbying for their skaters. Their women lost in curling to Britain yesterday. Britain! Now the nation must store up its psychic strength for hockey. Can't let your guard down. Not in this crowd. The Canadians managed to hold off Finland, 2-1, in a furious finish that was both skilled and nasty, and they must now play Belarus tomorrow. Common wisdom is that Belarus cannot possibly knock off two powers in a row after stunning Sweden, 4-3, yesterday in the biggest upset since 1980. But we all know how that works. Meanwhile, Russia outlasted the Czech Republic, 1-0, in a game as grueling as the conflict of 1968 between two countries, now defunct, that still reverberates in the No. 68 on Jaromir Jagr's jersey. Then came the United States, avoiding stupendous embarrassment against Germany, winning, 5-0. The Russians play the Yanks tomorrow on the 22nd anniversary of the huge upset in 1980. Those two teams are close enough that there can be no upset. But Canada will be skating on spring ice against Belarus, with the entire nation caught up in the result. Before yesterday I had a premonition of something horrible happening to a major democratic nation from the frozen north. I had envisioned bright Canadian red being stunned, but it turned out to be Swedish blue and yellow that went down right away. Still, there was such a sense of heightened expectations - gold or nothing - plus impending gloom and doom for Canada that I wanted to console my friends and neighbors in the true north strong and free. So I prepared a list of all the good things about Canada, so the folks up there could feel good about themselves just in case something bad happened. In no particular order, here are a bunch of reasons all of us will still love Canada, no matter what. 1. The anthem "O, Canada!" 2. Joni Mitchell, who wrote the lyric "Look at those jokers, glued to that damn hockey game." 3. Laura Secord puddings I used to bring home from Montreal back when there were big games. 4. Eh. 5. Whistler, British Columbia - especially downwind. 6. CBC. My wife, currently hanging out in Seattle, says the Winter Games are great on CBC. 7. The McGarrigle sisters. 8. Mordecai Richler. 9. Barbara Ingraham from Montreal, who taught me all about Lady Byng. 10. Al Arbour. If I were an athlete, I would have loved to play for him. 11. The Rocket. 12. The Pocket Rocket. 13. Cottages on the lake. 14. Dr. Ron Taylor. He could pitch, too. 15. Neil Young. 16. Baby Beluga in Stanley Park. 17. Margaret Atwood. 18. The Maple Leaf on the flag. 19. Mario Lemieux. 20. Oscar Peterson. 21. Réjean Tremblay, a sportswriter whose sitcom, "Lance et Compte (Shoots and Scores)," about a profligate center, began its new generation in Quebec last night. 22. Pierre Larouche, who to this day brags that Tremblay's series is really about him. 23. Richard Pound, who suffered because the International Olympic Committee delegates cannot tell a Canadian from an American. 24. Liz Manley. 25. Anne Murray, who never misses a Maple Leafs game when she is in town. 26. Leonard Cohen. 27. Ian and Sylvia, wherever they may be. 28. Wayne Gretzky. 29. Dave Semenko, right next to the Great One. 30. Lloyd Axworthy, public official. 31. The late Rick Danko of The Band. 32. The late Richard Manuel of The Band. 33. Robbie Robertson of The Band. 34. Garth Hudson of The Band. 35. Levon Helm of The Band, despite being from Arkansas. 36. Mike Bossy, scorer and character. 37. Robertson Davies. 38. Donald Sutherland. 39. Camil DesRoches, grand old publicist of the Canadiens. 40. Gordon Lightfoot. 41. John and James Coburn, zany twins from Toronto, who staged the Poetry Olympics in Calgary in 1988, the single best night I ever had at the Olympics. 42. Montreal in summer. 43. Quebec City in winter. 44. Toronto in fall. 45. Vancouver in spring. 46. Ken Dryden, goalie and writer. 47. John Hughes, father of Sarah. From the guest critic David Vecsey, hockey maven at CNNSI.com: 48. Tim Horton's on every corner. 49. Junior hockey on TV. 50. 5 percent alcohol beer. 51. Eight-pin bowling. 52. The rouge in Canadian football. 53. The portrait of Queen Elizabeth in the Winnipeg arena. 54. Moose Jaw. 55. Porcupine Plains. From the guest critic Allen Abel, Brooklyn boy and excellent journalist based in Toronto: 56. Filming an Inuit caribou hunt on the tundra east of Hudson Bay, for CBC. 56. Little kids' hockey. 57. Prairie summer nights. 58. Air Canada. 59. Bilingual food packages. 60. Toronto's ethnic neighborhoods. 61. Rollerblading on Toronto Island. 62. Everything about Vancouver. And a final two from me: 63. Aboot. 64. The gift burgundy ski hat with CANADA across the front that had our Olympic chief here, Kathleen McElroy, imagining she was from Toronto rather than Houston. Canadian garb is hip. Canadian skaters are chic. But Canadian hockey is everything, a very dangerous state indeed. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/21/olympics/21VECS.htm

Posted on Sat Feb 23 00:45:40 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tb073.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.53)

bob wigo

I would love to contribute to this recent thread but......

COME ON SIXES, BABY NEEDS A NEW PAIR OF SHOES !!

Posted on Sat Feb 23 00:18:12 CET 2002 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

John D. great, thanx!

Posted on Sat Feb 23 00:19:10 CET 2002 from (63.143.92.254)

Pete Rivard

Man, I been away too long. Almost missed this Pete Seeger/banjo thread. So before it fades from memory, Here's my tuppence worth:

Neither I, or any banjo player of any merit I ever met, ever considered Pete Seeger a "guru" of the 5-string. He played this silly longneck that he kept capo'd to the usual neck length for 90% of his tunes. And his playing was rudimentary, at best. Certainly there was nothing original in his style; it was a bit of this and a bit of that.

I'll bet I heard him play a few dozen times on the TV and once or twice in person and never once considered that the banjo thing might be for me. But it took precisely one song by Earl Scruggs onstage to blow me away for life.

My banjo gurus are Scruggs, Ralph Stanley, Bobby Thompson, Bill Keith, Tony Trishka, Courtney Johnson, Butch Robbins and Bela Fleck.

And Bela brings us to the topic of the "pretentiousness" of playing classical tunes on the 5-string. Anyone who can listen to Fleck's "Perpetual Motion" CD just once and not appreciate what the 5-string can do in the right hands has no ear for music atall.

Tonally speaking, the brightness and clarity of the banjo combined with it's brief sustain remind me of a harpsichord, and I believe J.S. Bach himself would listen to Bela with delight.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 23:56:14 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

SERGE: ME OLD COCK (Newfoundland Term...not dirty): I understand that you are putting together The New Vaudville Band once again with a blues re-make of Winchester Cathedral. Good luck on the Harp.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 22:51:26 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

I also wanted to say that I am honoured this Sunday night to be a presenter at the first Canadian National Jazz Awards to be held here in Toronto. CBC Radio is taping this event and I'll have a chance to see old pal Randy Bachman who has given so much back to guitar jazz greats. His label currently distributes the great Canadian jazz great, Lenny Breau and one of my 60's favorites, Howard Roberts. It was Mr. Roberts version of "Sac 'O' Woe that I ever heard. The highlight will be Mr. Oscar Peterson playing on a very special piano. I understand there are only a handful of these pianos in the world. I wish I knew the name. Any time Oscar sits down to play......I listen.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 22:47:23 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Johnny Flippo couldn't have said it any better; regarding Mr. Ry Cooder. I have had the pleasure of interviewing Ry on a few occasions. I still have hours of reel to reel recordings of him sitting in a radio control room at CHUM-FM with me in the 70's playing bottleneck guitar late at night. He has always given full credit to the original writer's no matter what he has done. His personal hero was Sleepy John Estes and he learnt a lot from that man. Mr. Cooder would never think of taking a "credit" no matter how he has changed the song. Mr. Flippo.a Great Post!!!

Posted on Fri Feb 22 20:42:12 CET 2002 from c5300-1-ip222.albany.thebiz.net (216.238.224.222)

bea

• NIGHT OF "THE BAND" MUSIC!!! •

GARTH HUDSON TONIGHT!!!

Also: Crowmatix - Tom Malone - Michael Falzarano - Larry Packer - Buddy Cage & More!

THE BOTTOM LINE in NYC - Info: 212-228-6300 (LINK ABOVE)

Friday - FEB. 22 - 7:30 PM & 10:30 PM

Let's show our support for THE BAND folks!

A rare live performance by our own GARTH!!!!!

Maybe we can help his family this way

LET'S GO WHOOP IT UP WITH GARTH TONIGHT!!!

Posted on Fri Feb 22 19:24:17 CET 2002 from (209.195.208.11)

bassmanlee

AMG Link for O Sister!

Posted on Fri Feb 22 19:22:00 CET 2002 from (209.195.208.11)

bassmanlee

Struggling to keep up with y'all from the road. (See, I was in Virginia.) Peter V - shame on you! Crabgrass & Peter Stone, well said, although Sing Out! is still alive and kicking. (BTW picked up a replacement copy of their excellent "Rise Up Singing" book and noticed for the first time that Dixie is in it. The words look right. Haven't tried their chord transcriptions yet to see if they Joanied it.)

But I can agree with the big V when he says the GB influences the listening agenda. Not to mention purchasing decisions. To whit the high point of the trip was finding an independent record store with a decent amount of used and cutouts. In addition to new discs by Jonatha Brooke, Boz Scaggs, trumpeter Chris Botti, and Vasen, picked up two disks that might fit the interest the general GB. First was Micheal Martin Murphey's "Cowboy Songs". 21 tracks, 15 written by some guy named "P.D.". Oldies but goodies from the Country Western songbook, a different Americana. Quite enjoyable.

The second? A collection of BANJO MUSIC from Rounder/Easydisc with many of the names recently mentioned: Bill Keith, Tony Furtado, Tony Trischka, Bela Fleck, J.D. Crowe & New South, Ola Belle Reed, John Hartford and more. (See AMG link, above.) But no Mummers!

Also listening to "O Sister! The Women's Bluegrass Collection", another Rounder Records collection of female bluegrass pickers and singers, including Allison Krauss, Hazel Dickens and the Cox Family. (And there's that Furtado guy again.) Just grinnin' at the pickin' these days!

Posted on Fri Feb 22 18:45:43 CET 2002 from (66.200.102.18)

JTull Fan

Thanks Tendra! I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that your website is a welcome addition to this guestbook, and its' tedious discussion of music, musicianship, and related issues. You've offered us a useful, productive, and uplifting alternative!

Posted on Fri Feb 22 18:30:28 CET 2002 from spider-wn014.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.154)

Tendra King

100 Casinos on the Internet - http://www.casinokats.com/

Posted on Fri Feb 22 16:49:08 CET 2002 from dialin-1729-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.7.205)

Gene

One could argue that 'country rock' goes back to the '50s with Phil and Don, or Rick Nelson, maybe even further.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 16:44:51 CET 2002 from spider-wc052.proxy.aol.com (205.188.193.42)

Gary Seaman

I'm seeing this website for the 1st time. It's amazing. The last time I saw the BAND was in 1976 in upstate NY. Is there a complete concert archive list even if no tape from the show exsists? I'd love to see the details of the show I saw. Best Regards,Gary

Posted on Fri Feb 22 16:14:55 CET 2002 from host-65.subnet-76.med.umich.edu (141.214.76.65)

Steve Knowlton

Bob Fogerty is yet another brother. There were four or five of them. The story goes that when their parents divorced, the judge took each of them back in his chambers and asked if they wanted to stay with Mom or Dad. And all the brothers said they wanted to stay with each other.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 15:44:24 CET 2002 from abby13.revealed.net (208.16.227.204)

Mike

Thanks Pat :) I guess I did spell "rock" wrong...I don't know what got into me. Me a genius? Hardly! I also noticed that I spelled "pardon" wrong too, lol! I spelled it "parson". Considering that my post mentioned Gram and Gene Parsons, what kind of slip is that? Or is it mere coincidence? Or both?

All this talk of country rock and banjos really sparked a re-newed interest in that music. You can't go wrong with "Sweetheart", "Gilded Palace Of Sin" or "Pickin' Up The Pieces". It also got me to thinking of Buffalo Springfield, who were teribly underrated. But out of the ashes came two great bands: CSN&Y and Poco. "Buffalo Springfield Again" has to be one of the best albums ever made...Definitely has some high points for Neil Young (Mr. Soul, Expecting To Fly and Broken Arrow). I'm outta here.

Mike

Posted on Fri Feb 22 14:58:41 CET 2002 from (12.34.17.194)

Johnny Flippo

Do you think I had enough commas in that last post?

Posted on Fri Feb 22 14:56:47 CET 2002 from (12.34.17.194)

Johnny Flippo

Originators v. Contributors...An interesting anomaly is Ry Cooder. He completely changes songs around to the point that, melodically and structurally, they're unrecognizable. His "Money Honey" sounds nothing like Elvis'. "How Can a Poor Man Stand Such Times and Live" is a million miles away from Blind Alfred Reed's original. Yet, Cooder still credits the original songwriters, and seldom, if ever, gives himself any writer's, much less arranger's, credit.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 14:14:27 CET 2002 from cust163.18.nw.tplus.at (217.76.163.18)

Georg

hi to all music-lovers around the world from austria

Posted on Fri Feb 22 12:45:56 CET 2002 from du45-250.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.250.45)

Ilkka

More Banjo: - In Bob Dylan's "Lay Down Your Weary Tune" the sound of the different instruments are desribed as the sounds of the nature. This is of banjo:

"The last of leaves fell from the trees
And clung to a new love's breast,
The branches bare like a banjo played
To the winds that listened best."
© 1964 M. Witmark & sons

(Beautiful.)

Posted on Fri Feb 22 10:10:07 CET 2002 from (62.30.0.2)

Al Edge

Hope I can find some time over the weekend to add my fourpennyworth to the FANTASTIC stuff on here these past few days. What a Forum - and site - this is. Credit to everyone involved. Can't leave without the Boothill link to country rock. Notwithstanding our South Liverpool cousins could a thread be traced back to the North Liverpool Searchers with their then unique early sixties guitar sound - still so evident in young L'Pool groups today - rightly acclaimed by Roger McGuinn as a major influence on The Byrds own sound which clearly was still there when Gram came to the fore. Of course the influence for The Searchers - like the fab four - came up the Mersey from Noo YorK? Goes round eh?

One for the experts perhaps?

How far back is it possible to go with this? Is not the old Appalachian Hillbilly music surely the realistic springboard? Is Jethro not the missing link...? Or is it simply Pro-Magnum man?

Posted on Fri Feb 22 09:41:38 CET 2002 from du-tele3-159.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.159)

Peter Viney

Peter S-B's insight into the writing process was instructive. It made me think, how often is a song really "written in the studio" (or rehearsal room). Ever? It made me think of Classic Albums where Robbie describes writing "Dixie" on the piano, very quietly because the baby was asleep. Stuff that really is a co-written joint effort in the studio is usually a boogie! I suspect that the main flashpoint of inspiration most often comes alone. That's the point that Peter makes - both versions of Dixie, however different, are recognizably the same song. As i repeat every time the debate comes up, listen to Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, Supremes + Temptations, Spooky Tooth, Jackie DeShannon - all doing 'The Weight' the year it was released. All that persists across the versions are the words and melody. Lots of different arrangments - and even strong variations in pace. Still the same song.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 07:52:43 CET 2002 from (194.100.60.131)

Kalervo

Did I see all the banjo masters mentioned and didn' t see maybe the greatest of them all:Tony Trischka!!....Look his web site above.. Kalervo

Posted on Fri Feb 22 06:20:31 CET 2002 from dialup-65.56.132.75.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.56.132.75)

Pat Brennan

Of course, there was that Beatles group from England doing Honey Don't, Act Naturally, and I've Just Seen A Face a bit before the American rockers caught on. And Mike, I love the "orck" mistype. Just shows that genius can be quite accidental.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 05:31:41 CET 2002 from sid22.revealed.net (208.23.178.165)

Mike

Long Distance Operator: The lineup for the Burritos was: Gram Parsons, Sneaky Pete, Micheal Clarke, Chris Hillman and Bernie Leadon. I wish I had that live recording. That'd be a treasure trove for Burrito fans. A live recording from the Parsons-era Burritos!!!

Crabby, actually Gram's pre-Byrds band "International Submarine Band" started that whole country-rock genre. The Byrds were popular enough to get noticed with "Sweetheart". Also, The Dillards were right in that same area pre-Sweetheart. And a band called "Nashville West", which featured future Byrds Clarence White and Gene Parsons also mined the country-rock genre before Sweetheart. There are many hints at The Byrds leaning to country before Sweetheart. Hell, even Clarence White made guest appreances on Younger Than Yesterday and Notorious Byrd Brothers. Songs like "Time Between", "A Girl With No Name", "Change Is Now", "Wasn't Born To Follow" and "Goin' Back" all have traces of the country-rock to follow in 1968 with Sweetheart. The saddest thing is that The Eagles got credit for the country-rock thing that happened. While Bernie Leadon (a former Burrito) was the most talented and had country-rock roots (a good friend of Clarence White and Gram Parsons), Randy Meisner came from Poco and they had similar roots in country-rock too. Speaking of The Eagles, there is a group that has wasted time (parson the pun) and talent over they years. If I want country-rock, I'll get some Burritos, Poco, and The Byrds. Eagles are more orck-based...Oh well...

Mike

Posted on Fri Feb 22 04:11:58 CET 2002 from cfa1.execulink.net (199.166.6.10)

Paul Godfrey

Truly a Golden Moment for our Women's Hockey Team at the Olympics.

A golden day of sorts for me. An outstanding (as in have been waiting) Christmas present arrived today. MOONDOG MATINEE.

My favorite song is Great Pretender. The remastered version simply jumps out at you.

Now for some Men's Hockey - Team Canada. Go for the Gold Guys!

Posted on Fri Feb 22 03:45:42 CET 2002 from spider-tp031.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.186)

Bayou Sam

George probably didn't care about credit for something he added to a Lennon/McCartney song. That's the way he was. He would rather have had more space for his own songs on the records.

Mr Guerilla makes an interesting point, which I was actually thinking myself (I really was). When I look at the photo on the home page of this site - the Robbie in that picture seems pretty far removed from the RR of today. It seems like it's a photo of him as a kid or something. It's like, the other guys in the Band were all grown up but RR was still growing. He was the real thing back then, and he's a different real thing now - (there's a Dylan-esque ine huh?). In other words - Robbie WAS a mountain man, up in the Catskills (what a thrill), but he kind of grew up and left home to persue what he wanted to do. The other guys found their lot in life and were happy. We should just be glad RR was there to be a big part of what makes us come to this site everyday. That's why it bugs me when he gets bashed for being seen at an L.A. Lakers game in an expensive suit.

Back to CCR. Does anyone know who Bob Fogerty is? He is credited on some of John's records for diffent things. I always wondered if he's another brother.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 02:32:48 CET 2002 from dv236s69.lawrence.ks.us (24.124.69.236)

Dexy

I believe that U2 has a good solution to the group songwriting question. They list most songs as Bono/U2 or Bono/Edge/U2, meaning that whoever "originates" gets most of the credit and songwriting $$, but the partners who help "finish" the song are included as well. I've always liked the way Lennon/McCartney handled it, since as we all know, sometimes John brought the song to Paul, sometimes Paul to John, sometimes together, sometimes alone -- but they always had each other to play off of. However, I've also often thought that George probably should have had a 1/3 credit on some of them.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 02:08:31 CET 2002 from spider-loh-te054.proxy.aol.com (195.93.49.174)

Mr guerilla

Just wanted to say that I loved RR's performance at the opening ceremony. It's the first time I have seen any member of the band live, even on TV and it made me think how good it must have been to have caught them in the first or second incarnation. I thought he did a great job and its good those songs were heard by the audience they warrant. It got me thinking on the whole Robbie Levon thing and imho even if they were still friends I don't think Levon would have been there. I think the difference between Robbie and the others was that they embodied something wheras he was more transitory. Richard, Rick and in particular Levon were the real thing, and from the songs he wrote for them to sing I think you can see how much he loved them, Dixie being a great example. I think it is quite possible that at some point Robbie wanted to be Levon or very much like him. I don't think Robbie had the same sense of knowing who he was and that as time went on he wanted to find out. This lead him away from the collective of the band towards the various projects he has since undertaken. Watching him performing I felt like he had found his voice. Levon has always known the music he loves and wants to play, it oozes from him and I think that applies to his life too.

Anyway enough of my amateur psychology. I guess I am just trying to say I love them both and am insanely jealous of those of you who caught them when they were together. TLW and documentaries are no substitute for the real thing. Sorry if this is old ground but haven't been online for a while. Congrats to the women curlers our first gold since 84 and to the US and Salt Lake City for putting on a great games.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 02:07:43 CET 2002 from sdn-ar-004paphilp094.dialsprint.net (158.252.2.182)

Peter Stone Brown

On the songwriting, originators and creators topic it's not all that cut and dry (or maybe it is). Now according to various things I've read on this site such as the John Simon interview a lot of bands today share the credits no matter what. That's fine.

But having been in a few bands where I was the primary songwriter, the question is where do you draw the line? I've brought songs to bands that I wrote long before the band was in existence. I've also written songs with someone else and at times shared credits when a substantial change was made, sometimes amending an already copyrighted work.

At the same time, I write a song. I play it for the band, we start playing it. Nothing in the words or music is changed. A guitar player may play a lead solo, but not really come up with a part. Someone else may bring in a song, I play a lead solo, but don't really change the song.

The person who wrote the other song could leave my band, form his own, he gets another guitar player who comes up with a different lead part on the same song than I did. Neither one of us sat down and wrote that song.

Or suppose the guitar player comes up with a whole other part that changes the song, and the bass player or drummer does nothing but play that part. In other words they did nothing to change the music and lyrics as presented. Did they write the song?/n As another example take for better or worse (probably worse) Baez' cover of "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down." The arrangement obviously is totally different than the Band's far superior arrangement, and in addition to getting the lyrics wrong (were they deliberately changed, or more likely misheard?) there are definite changes to the melody. Should Baez and especially the Nashville studio musicians who came up with that arrangement now be considered writers of that song?/n

Posted on Fri Feb 22 01:28:11 CET 2002 from akcf3.xtra.co.nz (203.96.111.201)

Rod

I pretty much agree with Peter's comments on originators and contributers. There is a thin line between the two at times though. Was Garth an originator or contributer on Chest Fever? I'd say originator in that case. Certainly that song is a prime case where the performance is more important than the song itself.

As for encores - it's all part of the game.

Posted on Fri Feb 22 01:23:57 CET 2002 from 1cust191.tnt30.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.78.191)

Crabgrass

"Snippet" is a good description. In fact, if you blink you could miss seeing Gram Parsons entirely. The rest of the "camera work" during "Six Days On The Road" focuses on the audience - a great mistake and a great disappointment. Don't waste your time renting it just to see the Burritos.

BTW I seem to recall that there's a bit of banjo playing on the Byrds/Gram Parsons collaboration "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" - the album which launched the "Country Rock" genre - "I Am A Pilgrim" and Woody Guthrie's (a mate of Pete Seeger) "Pretty Boy Floyd."

Posted on Fri Feb 22 01:17:35 CET 2002 from syr-24-58-22-128.twcny.rr.com (24.58.22.128)

twohot

come and join us at www.cybertown.com and live in entertainmet music!!

Posted on Fri Feb 22 00:53:26 CET 2002 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.mediaone.net (24.61.49.141)

Long Distance Operator

There's a snippet of The Flying Burrito Brothers in the watershed Stones film "Gimme Shelter". The segment is from the infamous Altamont concert in December 1969, with the band performing a snappy rendition of "Six Days On The Road". My question is: Who was in that particular Burritos lineup? I know the late, lamented Gram Parsons was pretty tight with Keith Richards, but was Gram in the group at that time? You can't really tell who's who in the movie.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 23:57:38 CET 2002 from du-tele3-028.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.28)

Peter Viney

For my encore on encores: Very interested in John Fogerty’s attitude to encores. In the early 70s the debate raged over theatrical performances on curtain calls, and the prevailing opinion was that they were definitely not “hip”. Last summer I saw a play where they solemnly announced before the play that the writer had stipulated no curtain calls. This had caused so much protest, that they had decided to flip a coin before every performance. Heads meant curtain calls. Tails meant none. Tonight, we were informed, there would be none. In the early 70s even the most modern dance troupes took multiple calls. Opera had multiple calls and bouquets. “Hip” theatre took none. Fogerty was probably allying himself with that mood. The show was designed as a complete entity. When it was over, it was over. When I was doing music and comedy drama shows in the 70s for students of English, we resisted curtain calls for several years. But four times a year our small company had to participate in “serious plays” with my boss (and the backing band was sent home for the duration). He was then in his 50s – as I am now - and brought on some of his old amateur theatrical pals for the choice parts. On those shows there would be six curtain calls at least, large bouquets for the women and imitation champagne to toast the audience, which we found excruciatingly embarrassing (as was the actual play in fact). I was often relegated from acting to lights for these occasions (not serious enough), so had full opportunity to observe. So I know how Fogerty felt about fake encores. Our solution for our own shows in the late 70s / 80s was just one call, instant 10 second black out, house lights on, then the band playing an instrumental as the audience went out. I have to say that Hamlet is spoiled when all the dead people get up and bow!

Posted on Thu Feb 21 23:23:43 CET 2002 from syr-24-169-66-92.twcny.rr.com (24.169.66.92)

Bashful Bill

Saw the Indigo Girls in Albany a few years back, and people were calling out requests. At one point Emily said"We were going to play that one for an encore, oops, that is if you call us back out for an encore...". It was pretty funny. They ended up playing a cover of the Dead's Uncle John's Band for the encore. The Dead themselves often did covers for their encores. I recall them doing a killer versions of Baba O'Reilly and Satisfaction, leavin the fans happy.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 23:21:41 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

The Eagles are also embroiled in a nasty dispute. After guitarist & "shareholder" Don Felder was ousted from the nest about a year ago, he filed suit against the other two shareholders, Don Henley & Glen Frey. Talk about dirty laundry, but I guess that group has a long history of dissension.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 23:19:43 CET 2002 from du-tele3-024.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.24)

Peter Viney

Rick Roberts with the Flying Burrito Brothers was one of the best concerts I ever saw (1970? 1971? I think it was The Lyceum in London) and the third album, long unavailable until they put it all on a compilation recently is my favourite Flying Burrito Brothers album. I picked up two Rick Roberts solo albums on a vinyl a few years back. He was a truly wonderful singer and Colorado live still shines out as an onstage vocal in the It Makes No Difference(everytime) category.

Van's the man for pro encores. the band doesn't stop playing. He leaves the stage. Then comes back and does two. Three for an ecstatic audience (which it often is). Then he goes - and his car leaves the premises while the band are still playing out. No pretence about being dragged back. He knows he's coming back. I also think that doing 80 minutes on the contract then two encores (Dr John) therefore still finishing dead on 90 minutes isn't really right. The encores should be a gift on top of the contracted 90 minutes. (I've seen Van do 2 hours 20 minutes when the mood takes him). The standard contract will be 90.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 22:52:30 CET 2002 from (130.219.229.173)

BK

The way I think I remember it, from a VH-1 legends show or something. Doug Clifford and Stu Cook wanted more input into CCR, and JF told them that if that’s what they wanted then they’d have to contribute 1/3 each to the songwriting. I can’t remember whether that was something they actually wanted or not. They may have wanted to act more as the contributers.

Ya know, I’m just realizing that 3 of my all time favorite bands (The Band, CCR, and Allmans) all seem to have bitter feuds between principle members. Maybe it’s my fault. I’m gonna have stop liking bands…….

Posted on Thu Feb 21 22:37:13 CET 2002 from sc-hiltonhead2a-249.hhe.adelphia.net (24.49.232.249)

Amanda

I have read all the posts concerning songwriting credits on this site for the last 4 1/2 years. I have asked questions privately of some and been answered privately. I know all about the old-fashioned way and the modern way of songwriting credits, I know what should have been done, I know what could of been done, I even know what wasn't done. I understand all about originators and contributors. Believe me...I've been through the mill on this one. I don't have any questions for anyone or need anything explained to me. I just want to say that I think it is a pretty cruddy and obnoxious aspect of the music business. I mean...musicians are artisis right? Most creative people live for their art as much as they live for anything else. It is a shame that there is a need for a book or a course regarding Business 101 for Musicians. I completely understand about watching out for what is yours as far as money and such. No one wants to live penniless. In a group setting, it must be terribly distracting for the originator to be constantly worried about his own interest, even though the songs come together because of combined efforts, unless of course there is a good deal more to the originator's agenda than just the love of the work. I think it is distressing that an originator could be in a creative process with other members of his group and in the back of his mind he is thinking...of course this is all his because he is a leader and these guys/gals that sing or play the instruments...well, they are replaceable by session artists or whatever. Call me romantic, Pollyanna, or maybe I just have scruples...whatever...I honestly don't understand how a creative, talented close knit group of musicians can come up with so many powerful songs and music and only one person walks away with the trophy. No wonder there is so many bad feelings and ill will among bands from the 60s/70s and present day...that we don't even know about yet. I guess if any of my sons head to the garage someday with a guitar in hand...I better go back to college for Business and Accounting.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 22:31:00 CET 2002 from dialup-64.152.160.222.dial1.newyork1.level3.net (64.152.160.222)

FrankDracman

I was inspired by a MugsPost "Forbert play Chicago- he did a song written in memory of Rick Danko with a chorus about Rick being down to earth and wild as the wind" I went to SteveForbert.com got 2 replys "Wild as the Wind" or "Hey Mister got a Mintue" song abaout Rick and what a great friend he was to all. the song: "Maybe you didn't know him, but he probably was your friend, chorus: "Hey mister, got a minute, that's what Rick would say." It's not yet on any recording, though.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 22:27:41 CET 2002 from (208.202.161.51)

thebassguy

great site! LUV the Band, been a fan since 1971!! Please check out my site, thebassguy.com ! tbg

Posted on Thu Feb 21 21:43:27 CET 2002 from host-65.subnet-76.med.umich.edu (141.214.76.65)

Steve Knowlton

John D.: You're right that encores are phony if the group has kept back its hits/best loved songs. For example, the act Nickelback didn't play its only hit at a recent show, so of course they had to do it as an encore.

However, if the group has played its best and given the audience their money's worth, then an encore is a genuine honor from the audience to the group. I wasn't old enough to see any CCR shows, but on video their audiences are delirious with pleasure - those shows really moved them. And in that context, CCR doing an encore after 20,000 people swayed to every beat and even danced in the aisles would have been an genuinely friendly gesture toward those hard-working fans.

It's not like Creedence was about anything other than show biz, anyway - they were just good at it.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 21:39:38 CET 2002 from (66.200.102.18)

JTull Fan

Phony encores planned in advance? I was once at a show where the opening band (don't even ask, they are long gone and forgotten) was awful and booed during their set (nothing unusual). BUT, they had planned for an encore and CAME BACK! The audience was looking for vegetable to throw onstage!

Posted on Thu Feb 21 20:41:26 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Regarding Steve Knowlton's quote from John Fogerty saying that encores are "phony." I agree with Fogerty. I've had artists tell me how stupid they feel as they stand back stage waiting for all the clapping and shouting for a set amount of time to back on. The "encore" numbers are usually always included ahead of time. In other words it's part of the spectacle of show business.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 20:40:00 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tg023.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.158)

calvin

Ya know Dexy, from what I always understood Bartley, Clark, and Roberts always felt Firefall got slighted-they saw themselves as a damn fine country rock Jam band who had a few light rock singles and that got them labled. Whether that is true or not, accord to the bio on their home page (yep even Firefall has a page) that is the story they are sticking to. Bartley is still recording with a revamped Firefall, and to my surprise the 90 albums got good reviews as grittier country rock than in their heyday. That whole sound firefall/poco/eagles/SHF/Mannassas/Byrds/Burrito Brothers seemed to change members with each more than most people change their socks.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 20:26:36 CET 2002 from (142.76.70.52)

Rick K

I'm no expert, but I seem to recall John Hartford was no slouch on the Banjo . . .

and a pretty fair songwriter, too (Glen Campbell's "Gentle On My Mind" I beleive was his composition).

and I think (?) he wrote comedy for the Smothers Brothers & Glen Campbell . . .

Dileas gu Brath

Rick

Posted on Thu Feb 21 19:42:44 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Rick Roberts was Gram Parsons' replacement in the Flying Burrito Brothers not the Byrds.

Here's a hard & fast rule about songwriting credits -- it's up to those involved in the creation process to make sure their contribution is recognized at the outset, BEFORE the song is recorded. You've got to be a hard-nosed business person and make sure you receive your credit IN WRITING when the copyright paperwork is filled out.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 17:52:13 CET 2002 from spider-wl041.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.36)

Bayou Sam

Peter Viney = great post. You really explained it well. Your post should be in a book on how to form a successful band (if it isn't already).

Having been in a couple of bands myself - the hardest thing is for the personalities to mesh. I was in a band with a guitar player who sang well, and wrote great originals, but he had no "people" skills. The last I heard he was managing a store in California. That's why my hats off to a band like Aerosmith. They went through a TON of ups and downs, but came out of it realizing what they have as a unit. They learned valuble lessons - and, incredibly, they are all alive.

Steve Knowlton = thanks for those thoughts from Stu Cook, and Doug Clifford. I'd never heard those before. I always pictured "Mardi Gras" as Fogerty stepping back and essentially saying - go ahead guys, do your thing. I don't have the album handy, but I believe JF only sings a couple of tunes, and they are the only ones anyone knows. With all due respect to Stu and Doug - the proof of who CCR was is the great album "Centerfield".

Posted on Thu Feb 21 17:18:37 CET 2002 from dv236s69.lawrence.ks.us (24.124.69.236)

Dexy

The Rick Roberts story, I think, is a pretty sad one. He was a real talent -- the Flying Burrito Brothers album with Colorado was really outstanding, with him taking the place of the great Gram. He did tour briefly with The Byrds I think, also replacing Parsons, but I don't believe he was ever an official member. Of course, he sort of sold out for the bucks with Firefall, but I can't blame him for that. Unfortunately, he's dropped off the face of the earth, while the other Firefall members (sans Byrds drummer Michael Clarke, who passed away) tour Casinos to this day. Last I heard, Roberts was in and out of half-way houses (allegedly, from an online board like this one).

Posted on Thu Feb 21 16:12:36 CET 2002 from host-65.subnet-76.med.umich.edu (141.214.76.65)

Steve Knowlton

There are some interesting books about Creedence: one is an oral history called "Up Around the Bend." In it, Cook and Clifford reveal that some of the animosity on their side came not from their unwillingness to recognize Fogerty's musical genius - they always count their lucky stars that they played with him - but that he took advantage of his musical dominance to exert financial, commercial and managerial dominance. For example, refusing to tour except on weekends. Proclaiming that encores are "phony" and refusing to come out again after the set. These types of decisions hurt the whole band financially, which may be why they were not inclined to help him later. Cook and Clifford also claim that the "Mardi Gras" debacle was a result of Fogerty imposing on them a requirement to write and sing, because he wanted to change the image of the group. Hard to say on that one.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 16:08:41 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

In answer to The Beav's question, Rhino/Warner has the DVD-A version of The Last Waltz slated for release on April 30. Rhino/Warner recently did an excellent job on the DVD-A versions of the Grateful Dead's "Workingman's Dead" and "American Beauty". Intrestingly, the surround sound mix, done with Mickey Hart's input, puts the listener in the drummer's perspective.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 10:15:32 CET 2002 from du-tele3-157.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.157)

Peter Viney

Songwriting credits post # 1037: The way I see it, in every creative field there are ‘originators’ and ‘contributors’. Some contributors are brilliantly creative people, but left to their own devices they just won’t come up with a new song (book / idea / script / photo/picture). ‘Originators’ are good at getting things started. Their best work is often when paired or grouped with the ideal ‘contributors.’ When the group falls apart (and they all do) the originators will continue, but the contributors will tend not to produce new ideas, even though their part in developing and enhancing the original ideas was so important. Art Garfunkel was a good example thrown in here. Even by “Bridge” he had lost interest though. His solo albums are full of exquisite vocals but deeply shy of originality. You have to see it the other way too. ‘Hearts and Bones’ was supposed to be a joint effort, but in the end Paul Simon eradicated Garfunkel’s vocal track. The songs were his. You can buy in a great harmony singer for the session (or do it yourself)– not one as great as Garfunkel perhaps, but one sufficient to carry the song’s aim. So why give up half the credit? And put up with the hassle? You can get on with the work without waiting for someone else to be free / turn up.

But when you come to CCR, Robbie’s remark about John Fogerty + sidemen is probably the story. Listening back, yeah, they were a great choogling band. But can’t you think of fifty American drummers or bass players who could have picked up the riff and played it convincingly? I mean, there was a time when every bar band could do a great Proud Mary, which lived or died on how well the vocalist could approximate John Fogerty. A lot of people could play it.

Bands start in an area. They expand beyond the area, and they realize that there are actually other great players out there. Their old friend who they always thought was the best (bass player / drummer / guitarist / keyboard player / horn player) they’d ever seen is truly great, but so are other people. To me, the bass player and drummer in the world who have given me the greatest listening pleasure are Rick and Levon. But look at Robbie’s early solo stuff – Manu Katche and Tony Levin. I’d back Levon any day in a battle of the drums against all contenders, but Manu Katche would still finish damn near the top of any list. Not that the point is ranking (and PLEASE let’s not get into ranking). Just that the ‘originator’, once reasonably successful, can call in great players. The failing is that these great players who are brought in, will never have the status to truly contribute in the same way as the original equal members did. They will be sidemen. And the originator, relaxing in the lack of hassle from true contributors, will probably be much happier with the boss + sidemen situation. They might actually enjoy the fact of playing with younger sidemen . BTW, Paul Simon has stuck by the same sidemen for long enough for them to have a creative contribution, I suspect.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 09:43:32 CET 2002 from dc-57-238.bpb.bigpond.com (203.40.57.238)

Bill

I'd say that the chief beauty of "Streets Of London" lies in its lyrics, as lovely as the tune is - borrowed or not. A really nice cover was done by Cape Breton's musical godfather, John Allen Cameron - produced by Anne Murray's production company.

Springhill, the Nova Scotia town that suffered the terrible mining disaster, is the hometown of both Anne Murray (Band links: "Tears Are Not Enough" with Richard M., and her dedication of one of her albums to singer Dianne Brooks, who sang on Robbie R.'s first recording) and Jackie Gabriel (Band link: sang with Hawkins for years in the mid-'60s).

Another Canadian disaster of the era was a bridge collapse in New Westminster BC, which was immortalised in Jimmy Dean's C&W hit, "Steel Men". The original version, though, was Toronto's first calyso record, by the Debonaires (sp?). It was a local hit on the Raleigh label that was at about the same time ('61) pressing the first Paul London and the Capers 45, featuring Garth H. (see Jan's discog.)

Posted on Thu Feb 21 08:19:53 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f1abf6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.157.163.193)

The Beav

Does anyone know if the Last Waltz is coming out in DVD-audio format? I heard it was, but i haven't heard any news in a while. Just wonderin'.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 07:30:04 CET 2002 from tayhou-207-218-229-131.ev1.net (207.218.229.131)

Laura

VERY EXCITED!! J.R.R. is going to be in Austin, TX for a Last Waltz promo deal at the Paramount Theatre March 15 with Martin Scorsese. It's part of all the South by Southwest concert events that will be going on that week. I will be there and really never thought I would ever see Robbie doing anything live. He will be the keynote speaker that night and they are going to show the movie in it's new release form. I'm so happy I get the opportunity to see this! For those of you who care, I will get back with you on how it all was. Hello to Donna in PA. and a hello to Acadian Ruby too!! Now that I have had a few glasses of Merlot..I'm going to be cheesey and watch "Carny". PEACE ALL!

Posted on Thu Feb 21 07:01:09 CET 2002 from 12-249-69-3.client.attbi.com (12.249.69.3)

Chris

I met David Crosby once in Chicago after a CSN show at the Rosemont Theater. Someone asked about a Byrds reunion and Crosby said "I would love to...I keep asking, and talking about it but Roger doesn't want to do ANY of the old stuff."

Hey Butch...are you going to be at the Ozark Foothills Film Festival Tribute to Levon?... The little lady and I are thinking about catching the Texas Eagle down to Walnut Ridge, Arkansas and heading to Batesville to take in the show. It's been a long time since we've had a train ride and too long since we caught a Levon and The Cate Brothers show. Any thoughts on the setlist?

Posted on Thu Feb 21 04:49:45 CET 2002 from 0-1pool72-71.nas22.vienna1.va.us.da.qwest.net (63.159.72.71)

Charlie Young

The CCR rhythm section (Stu Cook and Doug "Cosmo" Clifford) now tour under the name Creedence Clearwater REVISITED with a hired hand on lead vocals. I haven't heard them, but I imagine it is the same sort of oldies show that road warrior Paul Revere and his latest batch of Raiders put on, mostly familiar hits played close enough to the original records to please the audience. Believe me, that's more than I could do onstage and I have to give these guys credit (like I do Bob Dylan and Levon) for keeping their music on the road. It ain't easy.

That brings me to another point about Robbie's line in THE LAST WALTZ, listing the names of "the great ones" taken from us by the ominous-sounding "road." He mentions Buddy Holly and others who genuinely died on tour. But then he mentions Presley. The truth is that Elvis died on the toilet. I wonder if Robbie has avoided those since then as well...

Posted on Thu Feb 21 04:40:40 CET 2002 from dialup-65.57.15.200.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.57.15.200)

Pat Brennan

Doc, not to belabor the point, but no one person took credit for songwriting in The Band. Some of the members had co-writing credits with various people while one had co-writing and sole writing credits.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 03:59:53 CET 2002 from dialup-288.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.32)

Hank

There's a great story about Garcia travelling in Ireland on a holiday in 1994...he arrived quietly......just another long-grey haired American dude, travelled up The West, was on the road, stopped for some sight seeing and came across some Irish Gypsy kids who were having trouble with a horse......apparently he took out his banjo, gently picked and strummed and, like, the horse chilled....dude.......totally.....

Dead-Head speak aside, that's a true story......

There's a fellow here in Ireland plays a mean banjo..Gerry O'Connor...put out a spacy album entitled "Time to Time" awhile ago

Where was this gig you saw Van and The Band at Alan? In The UK.....sounds like a blast!

Posted on Thu Feb 21 02:28:35 CET 2002 from 209.236.161.52.cnjnet.com (209.236.161.52)

Mike Lenahan

Check out website http://jerseyjamsfund.org/main.html Levon is playing on this new project " Jersey Jams, Jersey Cares ". with The Matt Angus Thing. Great local band from Clinton NJ. This cd sould be out very soon. The song is called "Understand". This is a must for any Band Fan.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 01:45:48 CET 2002 from dra-163.dhcp.umass.edu (128.119.99.163)

doc

Nick: On your question concerning the reason(s) for John Fogerty's animosity toward his CCR bandmates, I think the old "ego analysis" will help. Since I was a kid I've known that John was always bitter about the fact that the songs he wrote for the group will be forever known as "CCR songs" instead of "John Fogerty songs." Having emerged as a great songwriter, I guess he became really dictatorial in the studio and would not let the others contribute or become creative. I later learned that he also handled all their business dealings with Fantasy by himself. As far as he is concerned, it was his songs that made the group big and he should have complete control of everything - and I've heard him say this many times in recent years. His complete control of the band eventually fueled a lot of resentment leading to Tom's departure. Of course, John resented their resentment, but when he finally did relinquish much of his control to Stu and Doug, it resulted in "Mardi Gras" - an embarrassingly bad album.

I think the real clincher for John came in the mid to late seventies when he sold his rights to his songs to Fantasy/Zantz in order to get out of his contract with him. Without royalties or a booming solo career he was not doing financially well and none of the others, who were living on their royalties from 'his songs' - as he sees it, bothered to offer him any financial help. Despite an extraordinary brief reunion in the early 80's, I think that's what really lead him to vow to never play again with the others - but I could be wrong. In the end, it stinks for the rest of us.

I believe Tom died in 1991 of tb. According to John, Tom told him on his death bed that Zantz was his best friend or something to that effect. Ouch!

Well, that's the way I understand the whole Creedence controversy. It's unfortunate that egos have caused so many great groups break up or change to inferior line-ups. This is not to say that I don't believe John is the genius behind the group - he definately is. I just don't think being good at what you do should correlate with being a control freak or arrogant. Personally, having been in a band myself, I never quite understood how one person could get the all the credit for a song. When somebody came to the band with a new tune everyone followed along, but eventually everyone would add their own thing to it so that it inevitably became the band's song. Writing songs within a group can be a creative and interesting process - but it's ultimately a social process. I think the same even holds true for Simon & Garfunkel. Simon is very intellectual and he is the genius behind the duo, but, in my opinion, Garfunkel's vocals lifted those songs to new heights which obviously Simon could not have achieved on his own. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't like to share credit or mind if people are living off of "your" songs, then "BABY, DON'T DO IT! From the comments on this great site, it's sad to read about the tension between Levon and Robbie, but it's surely another clash of the egos. The members of The Band were such great musicians, it's hard to see in my opinion how one member should either receive or claim all the credit. Well, I think I've written enough. Take care.

Posted on Thu Feb 21 01:21:41 CET 2002 from dial2a-252.i2eyenet.com (64.80.2.252)

Hi

My daughter for Christmas gave me a book which compiled articles and interviews from the '60's about the young Dylan which included the Ewan MacColl article from Sing Out..."a youth of mediocre talent."....The book's an interesting read in that it includes actual newspaper articles from the time...the New York Times referring to him as Bobby Dillon with Seeger and Bikel...

Posted on Wed Feb 20 23:58:12 CET 2002 from 66-106-4-126.customer.algx.net (66.106.4.126)

MattK

No mention of "Old Main Drag" is complete without mentioning Rod Stewart's seminal version...ok, maybe not. Still, just as it's embarrasing to admit my first exposure to "The Night The Drove Old Dixie Down," was via John Denver, as a kid I always associated "Dirty Old Town" with Roger Whittaker - at least until I heard Shane McGowan's somewhat grittier version with The Pogues on their excellent "Rum Sodomy and the Lash" album.

While "Dirty Old Town" is one of many highlights of the Elvis Costello-produced "Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash," their solid follow-up "If I Should Fall From Grace With God" is best known for "Fairytale In New York" - a duet with McGowan and Kristy MacColl, Ewan's daughter. Kristy, who died tragically a couple years back in a boating/swimming accident, was the wife of the album's producer, Steve Lillywhite. Lillywhite produced The Pogues' next album, "Peace and Love," which marked the beginning of the end for McGowan in the group as his drinking/drug abuse/belligerence left his vocals a mess, his songwriting weak, and The Pogues' in chaos.

Inexplicably (at least to me), "Peace and Love" enjoys greater favor than McGowan's last Pogues' effort, "Hell's Ditch." Personally, I think bringing in Joe Strummer to produce was a masterstroke that squeezed that last bit of greatness out of McGowan's life as "a Pogue" (after all, if you piss of Strummer, he'll just beat the crap out of you until you see things his way). It was on tour in support of "Hell's Ditch" (if I remember correctly) that McGowan became completely unmanagable and was fired mid-tour -- replaced by Strummer as front man for the remainder of the gigs.

Subsequently, The Pogues' devolved into a less-visionary, if more consistent, act as a pure Irish folk-rock ensemble, producing two more uninspired, McGowan-less records before disbanding in the mid-90s. For his part, McGowan reinvigorated himself and put out a terrific album, "The Snake," with a new backing band, dubbed "The Popes." The group has since produced a few albums, and I understand there is a forthcoming live disc. McGowan duets with Nick Cave on the latter's "Murder Ballads" album, which features a version of Dylan's "Death Is Not the End" off of "Down in the Groove."

Posted on Wed Feb 20 23:41:37 CET 2002 from 3cust162.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.95.162)

Crabgrass

I am particularly fond of the Gene Clark song "Changing Heart," one of his contributions to the Byrd's reunion album and a song about the fickleness of music fans. Soaring harmonies on the chorus which talks of how the public praises you when your "on top" and laments "but when you're singin' from your soul, they fail to see your final goal, they only tell you that you have a long way yet to go." No doubt a reflection by Clark on his own career. I hadn't heard this album since 1973 when I was living in London and found a vinyl copy here about 5 years back in a second hand store. I don't think it's ever been released on CD.

I loved Ralph McTell's "Streets of London" when I first heard it though my fondness for it waned after I realized that musically it is a ripoff of Pachelbel's Canon. You can hear a nice little audio sample (which works well) by clicking on the above Web Page link if you're interested. BTW McTell is not the only one to have ever ripped this off - it's a great piece of music. A piano interpretation of Pachelbel's Canon appears on George Winston's "December" which was mentioned here recently.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 23:03:34 CET 2002 from spider-wq064.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.184)

Calvin

I've read a few places Dave that the 1973 "reunion" album wasnt a reunion at all, but a patchwork album thrown together by the record company to look like a reunion. Ill look up a source if you'd like. As great as the early Byrd albums are Im equally as fond of the McGuinn/White years, Clarence WHite is one heck of an underrated player. And the Gram Parson album doesnt need anyone to trumpet it, I can listen to Sweethearts of the Rodea every day.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 22:26:21 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tk053.proxy.aol.com (64.12.107.43)

butch

CORRECTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FRIDAY,,, The Trenton show @ Conduit is 11 pm,, NOT 11:30 pm,,

&

The BODLES show is @ 9pm,,,,,SATURDAY,,,,

SORRY for ANY INCONVENIENCE,,,,,,,, bd

Posted on Wed Feb 20 20:27:28 CET 2002 from on-tor-blr-ahp-13-117.look.ca (209.161.237.117)

Wittg.

Make that 'Springhill Mine Disaster" , not Springfield. The Simpsons came to Toronto last week and I'm obviously a bit overwhelmed.

4.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 20:25:58 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Gene Clark did indeed participate in several Byrd reunion projects. In 1973 all the original members recorded an album together that wasn't all that bad, however, the magic they once had was missing. Later, in 1979 & 1980, McGuinn, Clark & Hillman released two very disappointing albums.

As I mentioned awhile back, Gene Clark's best solo work, in my opinion, is his 1971 A&M "White Light" album. Produced by Jesse Edwin Davis, it features some great original songs, along with a fine cover version of "Tears of Rage".

Posted on Wed Feb 20 20:25:43 CET 2002 from a59107.upc-a.chello.nl (62.163.59.107)

Martin Alberts

Maybe your are interested in my updated Everly Brothers Curiosities site ? Have fun............

Posted on Wed Feb 20 20:12:49 CET 2002 from paprika.mcc.wwwcache.ja.net (194.82.103.142)

Roger Woods

JQUEST - Ewan McColl wrote Dirty old town indeed, but Ralph McTell wrote Streets of London. Ewan McColl wrote a number of now classic folk songs including "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face," "Dirty Old Town," "The Shoals of Herring," "Freeborn Man" and "The Manchester Rambler." He wrote plays and played the banjo too.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 20:11:08 CET 2002 from on-tor-blr-ahp-13-117.look.ca (209.161.237.117)

Wittgenstein

Ewen MacColl definitely didn't write 'Streets of London'. That was Ralph McTell (no relation to Blind Willie). He did write 'The Springfield Mine Disaster' which was a well-known folk song about a horrible event in Nova Scotia in the '50's. MacColl also stands out in my mind for writing perhaps the most virulent attack ever on the young Bob Dylan. MacColl thought Dylan's lyrics were trash and wholly unpoetic. His diatribe may have been an influence on the famous 'Judas' shout at Manchester, this according to Greil Marcus anyway, but I don't agree. MacColl just couldn't stand the whole Dylan phenomena, while the other had to do with electric guitars and the Hawks. I can't remember for sure, but I think that I read MacColl's outburst in Sing Out magazine.

Roger McGuinn won't go out with Crosby and Hillman as The Byrds. He probably thinks that it's a no-win situation. It's nice to see that he and Crosby get along after all the acrimony in '67 and '68. I think it would be wonderful if they reunited and did a tour of small venues. But nostalgia is a tricky act to play. See Rick Nelson

Roger's up for a Grammy this year in the Folk category but the competition looks tough. Also, there's a lot of this Pete Seeger fellow on his new album.

That's 3 Bayou Sam.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 19:58:23 CET 2002 from spider-wg062.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.47)

Calvin

Mike, Rick Roberts played and sang on the last Byrds album-although he was not credited as a member, at least that is what a few Roberts Bios Ive read have said. I wasnt too impressed by the 1990 songs on the Box Set. They just didnt seem to click together, im remember them being fairly savaged by the critics as well-frankly I always considered Gene Clark the glue of the original line-up, and he unfortunately never gets involved in those Crosby/Hillman/McGuinn projects.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 19:56:37 CET 2002 from dialup-63.209.89.238.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net (63.209.89.238)

jquest

On E. MacColl's "Sreets of London" - Wasn't there also a great version in the late 70's by Cleo Lane? We might have to get one of the Brits to answer.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 19:54:51 CET 2002 from 56k-la-02-17.dial.qnet.com (209.221.212.128)

Dave the Phone Guy

I heard David Kemper play w/ Jerry's band and w/ Dylan. He is a very good drummer.

Band dynamics or something spoiled the soup mix, it wasn't Kemper's playing.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 19:24:59 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-ti064.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.179)

butch

ok,,,

Levon Helm & The BarnBurners,,,,,,,,,THIS WEEKEND,,,,,,,

FRIDAY,,, The CONDUIT,, Trenton , N.J.

one show,,, 11:30 pm,,,, ( sorry, i 1st thought there were 2 shows,, but only one,)

SATURDAY,,,,Bodles Opera House,,,,Chester NY,,,, time ???

special guest @ Bodles,, Jimmy Vivino on guitar & piano,,,

See Ya'll There,,, i hope,,,,,,,

Jan, hope youre having FUN !!!!!!!! bd

Posted on Wed Feb 20 19:17:12 CET 2002 from (212.153.193.19)

Ragtime

Thread: Banjo...

Jo met de banjo

En Lien met de mandolien

Kaatje met haar mondharmonicáááátje

A very dear song from the low countries...

Posted on Wed Feb 20 19:12:25 CET 2002 from inktomi2-cdf.server.ntl.com (62.252.32.5)

DAVID G.BARRON

ANY TRUTH IN THE RUMOUR THAT THE LAST WALTZ WILL BE RELEASED AS REMASTERED 5LP SET, IF TRUE IT WOULD BE QUITE SMALL CONSIDERING WHAT CAN BE PUT ON CD.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 19:01:48 CET 2002 from dialup-63.209.89.238.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net (63.209.89.238)

jquest

Regarding E. MacColl: didn'he write Dirty Old Town & Streets of London? Best covers I think: S McGowen & Liam Clancy. Bob Dylan on Liam Clancy: the ballad singer ever.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 18:47:20 CET 2002 from du-tele3-134.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.134)

Peter Viney

Some stuff about 6 months ag- Crosby has said he'd do The Byrds again (or at least a Crosby-Hillman-McGuinn). Either Hillman or McGuinn are the hold-out. Can't remember which.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 18:35:30 CET 2002 from du143-1.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.1.143)

Ilkka

Thread: BANJO - Welcome to my living room :-) (Click Web page link)

Posted on Wed Feb 20 18:29:09 CET 2002 from spider-tm022.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.52)

Bayou Sam agaion

Y'know- IMHO - the other guys in CCR, while very talented, should be very thankful that they hooked up with John. On one of the last CCR albums (I think it's called Mardi Gras), John sat back and Doug Clifford and Stu Cook did a lot of the tunes. Well, the only ones that stood out were the couple that John sang.

I've always put Art Garfunkel in the same boat. The guy has an incredible voice, and he made "Bridge Over Troubled Water" his own. But when he wakes up in his upper east-side apartment and looks out over Central Park, I hope he appreciates hooking up with the great Paul Simon.

Funny story - I work as a photographer at a school photography company - and we do a lot of schools in NYC. We've taken Art Garfunkel's sons photo a few times. The little guy is almost an exact mini-replica of his dad - hair and all. It's cute to see. One time, Art called the office to discuss buying photos, and the girl who answered the phone thought it was a joke at first. Then when the Garfunkel's paid by check, we were bummed out because Mrs. Garfunkel signed the check.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 18:12:01 CET 2002 from spider-tm022.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.52)

Bayou Sam

"The Ballad of Jed Clampett" (The Beverly Hillbillies Theme) was done by Flatt & Scruggs of course. There was even an episode of the show that they appeared in that I'd love to get a tape of if I can catch it on a re-run.

The great thing about John Fogerty winning his case against Fantasy Records was the fact that he went into court and defended himself by bringing a guitar and amp with him, and showing the jury how he writes songs and displaying a very logical reason why "Old Man Down The Road" sounds like "Run Through The Jungle" - the same guy wrote them both. I wonder if that court session was taped. I'd love to hear, or see it.

The story about John and Tom Fogerty is a sad one. They had a fued that makes the Levon/Robbie one look like nothing. I remember reading something about John visiting his brother on his deathbed, and Tom saying something about siding with Saul Zaentz as his last thought to John before he died. Very sad baggage for John Fogerty to carry around.

To shift gears a little - on his last album, Fogerty spent alot of time learning to play resonator slide guitar (commonly refered to as a Dobro) for that album. He does a beautiful song, the title of which escapes me now, to his wife in which he plays the Dobro on. I've always loved the sound of a Dobro myself.

Lennon played a mean Dobro on his song, "John Sinclair"

Posted on Wed Feb 20 18:04:38 CET 2002 from (66.200.102.18)

JTull Fan

Alan Edge: It's obvious that the horse in King Harvest was named 'Jethro' in honor of Stand Up, Jethro Tull's fine second album that year.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 18:02:36 CET 2002 from wcs2-pent-2.nipr.mil (206.38.114.100)

Nick

Mike, thanks for the correction. I couldn't remember when Tom Fogerty passed away but based on the acrimony between band members, if his brother were alive he wouldn't have played with him anyway. I do know that John Fogerty had (has?) very bitter feelings against the other CCR members (including his bro). I've heard him say that but I've never heard any explanation as to exactly why. Does anyone know?

Posted on Wed Feb 20 17:47:15 CET 2002 from (205.245.52.66)

carmen

Interesting info on Dylan

Wednesday, February 20, 2002 By Roger Friedman Bob Dylan | | Press Clippings Dylan: Things Have Changed Bob Dylan's preparing for his surprise appearance on the Grammy Awards one week from tonight on CBS. He's nominated for best album with Love and Theft, and he will perform, I am told. But to quote Dylan's recent Oscar-winning song, "Things have changed." One person you won't see next Wednesday night is drummer David Kemper. After five and a half years with Dylan's band, Kemper was abruptly dismissed last month without notice. Kemper, who used to play for Jerry Garcia, joined the Dylan entourage in 1996. He's been part of a tight-knit, small group who are responsible for the Grammy-winning album, Time Out of Mind, as well as the more recent one. According to sources close to the secretive Dylan inner circle, Kemper was told his services were no longer needed by a member of Dylan's management group. "Someone called and said, 'There's been a band change.' That was it." Kemper had received glowing reviews in the Dylan band and, I am told, had no idea he was being replaced. His successor is George Receli.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 16:52:31 CET 2002 from 0-1pool72-67.nas22.vienna1.va.us.da.qwest.net (63.159.72.67)

Charlie Young

Peter: Roger McGuinn, Chris Hillman and David Crosby recorded six new tracks for the Byrds' boxed set in 1990 and the quality was excellent. They have played surprise live appearances in L.A. a time or two since then but seemingly have no interest in recording or touring again as the Byrds. The last I heard--in a bizarre legal twist--the late Michael Clarke's estate wound up with ownership of the name of that band anyway, and some anonymous ensemble sometimes turns up on the Pollstar listings trying to pass themselves off as the Byrds.

The 1985 "Tribute to the Byrds" tour was wonderful from what I have heard. With Gene Clark, Rick Danko and Richard Manuel sharing lead vocals, what could have been disappointing? I'd love to trade for some good quality CD-R copies of any of those shows available.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 16:14:43 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Mention of Ewan MacColl sadly reminded me of his talented daughter, Kristy, who died tragically in December 2000. Her last recording, "Tropical Brainstorm", was released last year. The CD is a delightful mixture of dry British humour set to spicy Latin grooves.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 15:50:14 CET 2002 from dax48.revealed.net (208.16.227.191)

Mike

Nick: About the CCR Hall Of Fame induction, John did refuse to play with his former bandmates, but not his brother. His brother had passed awy in 1990. CCR were inducted in 1993, the same year as Van The Man, coincidentally.

I'm sure John plays banjo. Check out the "Blue Ridge Rangers" cd on which he plas ALL instruments. Great album.

Calvin, I don't think Rick Roberts had any stint in The Byrds. You're probably thinking of The Flying Burrito Brothers with Roberts replacing Gram Parsons in late 1970. Also, Roberts and Michael Clarke were founing members of Firefall. As for John York, he'd previously played with The Mama's and Papa's backup band before joining The Byrds.

As for all of this banjo talk, it's pretty funny. I always like hearing that guy with the arrow and bunny ears playing "Foggy Mountain Breakdown". As for The Byrds, listen to just how good drummer Gene Parsons was on the banjo (Green Apple Quick Step and Bristol Steam Convention Blues). The guy had talent. I think I have a Parsons cd in my collection somewhere. McGuinn wasn't too shabby either. Also, Rusty Young of Poco was good too. Not to mention being an ace on pedal steel and running it thru a lelsie cabinet to make it sound like an organ! I think I have written enough for now. I'm outta here.

Mike

Posted on Wed Feb 20 14:17:16 CET 2002 from ppp-1-224.5800-11.telinco.net (212.1.152.224)

Al Edge

Excellent point Nancy. A real social conscience amongst the post Thatcher/Reagan elite is as rare as Van Morrison grin at a handshaking liaison with a star struck Scouser!

Bill - it was indeed Manchester's own Ewan McColl who penned 'First Time', tho I doubt if even the writer himself ever dreamt his creation could soar as high as it did with Miss Flack's wondrous interpretation. Or was it Mrs Flack. Oh Well. Ah now Peter Green...

Peter - Re Jed Clampett - was Richard's poor demented cart horse in King Harvest named after Jeds own Jethro? Was he actually as nutty as Jed's own Jethro? Or was Jethro simply acting simply? Was the Beverley Hillbillies not completely true then in that case? Are we losing our own marbles? Should we be playing them instead?

Posted on Wed Feb 20 12:23:08 CET 2002 from dial2a-188.i2eyenet.com (64.80.2.188)

Hi

Those quasi Byrds played the Horsemen Saloon near Woodstock in or around 1985. It was billed as a Byrds tribute but Richard/Rick did a couple of Band songs....me being a Byrds fan a short while back did a search and found Michael Clark's website which was a grim insight into his alcoholism and sad end.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 11:34:50 CET 2002 from i249-009.nv.iinet.net.au (203.59.249.9)

Nancy

Back to Pete Seeger for two seconds (promise).....better he be rich and privilaged WITH a social conscience than be rich and privilaged WITHOUT a social conscience :)

You don't have to be stony poor and wretched to be credible in efforts intended to improve the lot of others. History has any number of people from elite backgrounds who worked to bring about social reform. People from wealthy backgrounds often have the advantage of having assets such as money, time, education and influence which they can put to good use to bring about change. Compare this to the underprivilaged, who can spend so much time and energy on basic survival alone that there is nothing left for improving their lot in life, let alone fighting for a greater cause.

(Twenty seconds.......sorry)

Posted on Wed Feb 20 10:46:16 CET 2002 from du-tele3-043.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.43)

Peter Viney

Glad to see ‘The Ballad of Jed Clampett’ made it. Used to sing that while riding my bike to school.

The Byrds Tribute Band are bootlegged as Gene Clark “A Star For every stage” – see discography on the site. They also included short-term Band member Blondie Chaplin as well as Rick and Richard. Nicky Hopkins isn’t listed – even better for us, Richard was the keyboard player (at least on May 16 1985 in Evansville where it was recorded). John Yorke and Rick Danko both played bass and guitar, presumably alternating duties. They had originally billed the tour as ‘The Byrds’ which got shot down by Roger McGuinn, so they changed it to The Byrds Tribute Band. But the boot is credited as “Gene Clark & Friends”. As John Fogerty is in the news, it brings back that old Robbie quote that The Band were a group, unlike CCR who he said were John Fogerty + backing musicians. I’d say The Byrds were somewhere between the two, but in spite of such stellar members as Crosby, Hillman, Parsons, both Clark & Clarke, Clarence White, the only constant in their history was McGuinn, and the line up changed considerably. So while I think any three or four were justified as going out as “The Band” I do feel that a “McGuin-less Byrds”would be impossible to justify, even if it was Crosby, both Clark(e)s and Hillman. The only post 1973 line-up to use the name had McGuinn, Hillman and Crosby for an album (I think).

Alan brings back Nostell Priory 1984 – the other gig where Van played with The Band, doing two numbers. Haven’t seen him do Caravan for a long time. His band are famously expected to know as many numbers as Dylan’s. The possibilities list given to one recruit ran to over 200. I was reading the 2001 reviews in Wavelength, and don’t think it was there once. He has some numbers that turn up just once or twice a year, like Madame George, but Caravan seems expunged. Pity. Perhaps the expected acclaim for the TLW re-release will remind him to play it. Whenever he plays in this area someone shouts out “Radio!” between songs. By this he must mean ‘Caravan.’

Posted on Wed Feb 20 10:02:50 CET 2002 from (62.31.64.2)

Al Edge

For those who just may be interested - if my American friends aren't already burning effigies of a judge who marked their efforts at the banjo Olympics so disparagingly - the "Do not forsake me post" of 17 th Feb which got swamped in an avalanche of banjos was an account of a time I bunked [climbed over the fence for you folks] backstage at a festival where The Band - early eighties reincarnation - where appearing with Van the Man.

I went in search of the boys - saw them all from a respectful awe inducing and gasping distance [Garth in his caravan practising his alto sax, Rick and Richard regaling a group of friends with rick's arms rotatating like a windmill and him not keeping still for a minute or failing to laugh or smile for less than a few seconds].

The confrontation with Van was entirely unplanned as I scuttled up some alley to avoid a security man and came face to face with Mister Grump himself. Hence the piece. A pain in the backside for Van - a highlight of my sad life pour moi!!

Posted on Wed Feb 20 09:50:53 CET 2002 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.mediaone.net (24.61.49.141)

Long Distance Operator

There was a quasi-Byrds lineup featuring Rick, Richard, and Nicky Hopkins?!? I'm shocked, and very intrigued! How did it sound? If anybody has any boots, I'd be very eager to arrange a trade! Shoot me an email if you're interested...

Posted on Wed Feb 20 07:45:05 CET 2002 from dc-58-115.bpb.bigpond.com (203.40.58.115)

Bill

Left Banke's Michael Brown was really Michael Lookofsky, whose father, Harry, plays on the Bobby Charles Bearsville LP co-produced by Rick Danko.

Didn't Seeger brother-in-law Ewen McColl write "The First Time"? The first version I heard was on the first LP I ever owned - Lightfoot's first solo. The definitive version for me, though, is Roberta Flack's - the highlight of her career as far as I'm concerned. Flack's partner shortly after that, Eric Mercury, was one of the greatest talents of the Toronto R&B scene when the Hawks were around.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 04:54:23 CET 2002 from sdn-ap-002castocp0773.dialsprint.net (63.187.11.11)

jeffrey

Didn't Jed Clampett write a tune called "Deliverance"?, which was then stolen by Pete Seeger,then adapted and arranged by Bela Fleck, that famous, sacriligious, jazz musician, who , rumor has it, has called Pete Seeger a"hick"? Just checking.........

Posted on Wed Feb 20 03:19:49 CET 2002 from 0-1pool72-1.nas22.vienna1.va.us.da.qwest.net (63.159.72.1)

Charlie Young

Speaking of the Byrds, Sundazed has just released a two CD set called THE PREFLYTE SESSIONS, containing an amazing array of the earliest recordings of the original five members of that seminal Los Angeles band. Lots of the tracks have never been officially released--and some I have never even heard on Byrds' bootlegs. The documentation in the 50 page booklet is as good as the best stuff from Rhino (and that's as good as archival music gets).

Thanks to an import sale at the online retailer CD NOW, I also finally picked up the 1973 reunion album titled simply BYRDS and an interesting European collection called THE BYRDS PLAY THE SONGS OF BOB DYLAN that includes bonus tracks not available on an earlier edition with the same title. One track that I don't think has ever appeared in the US is a fine live version of "It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)" from the Clarence White-era Byrds.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 01:27:04 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tk022.proxy.aol.com (64.12.107.27)

Calvin

Dave, this is neither here nor there, but as Mike Clarke and Gene Clark were original members of the Byrds, with Gene being one of the primary songwriters early on, and Rick Roberts and John York both doing stints in the group, can it really be called a "tribute band"-I mean they were all legitimate members-Gene Clark one of the truly important ones.

Posted on Wed Feb 20 00:13:22 CET 2002 from spider-wa011.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.21)

Bayou Sam

Actually, the banjo has it's roots back in Africa way before finger picks were invented. It was bought to America via the slave trade. Then it transformed into a popular instrument in minstrel shows. It wasn't until the late 1800's that it started to become the instrument we have today. Then there's four-string, and five-string......

It's too bad that some folks associate the banjo with Deliverance. It's probably "Dueling Banjos", and "The Ballad of Jed Clampett" that are the only tunes that non-banjo fans know (Eric Weissberg was correct Peter V.). You know what always bugged me - the cut of "Dueling Banjos" from Deliverance is actuall a banjo and a guitar. It should have been called "Dueling Five-Strings" or something.

Hey - two posts from 'ol Witt in about a week.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 23:29:55 CET 2002 from du-tele3-031.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.31)

Peter Viney

Hank: many thanks indeed. Lost your e-mail address. It's on non-stop rotation here.

We got right through the banjo debate without mentioning the original Duelling Banjos man from the Deliverance OST - isn't that Eric Weissberg (can't be bothered to lookit up)? I used to have the OST on tape, but never played it as it reminded me too much of the movie, which made me resolve to head for a crossbow if anyone ever said, 'Hey, we always handcuff ourselves to trees while listening to banjo music …" And no one mentioned the Dylan connection there. Or our very own Pete Rivard from the Guestbook. But enough on banjos.

At the Fogerty R&R Hall of fame induction, the three guitarists were John Fogerty on acoustic Bruce Springsteen on rhythm and Robbie Robertson on lead. Robbie sang with Bruce and John F on Born on the Bayou.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 23:11:52 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

John Fogerty's decision not to perform Creedence songs for many years was his by choice and rooted in the bitter history of CCR's contract with the Fantasy label. The acrimony between Mr. Fogerty and Fantasy impresario, Saul Zaentz dates back many years. Mr. Fogerty was not happy with the CCR contract they signed with Fantasy in 1964. They battled over royalties and other matters before Fogerty left CCR to pursue a solo career. In order to get out of his Fantasy contract, he unwisely gave up the publishing rights to his songs, subsequently leading to his later reluctance to perform CCR material.

If this wasn't enough, Mr. Zaentz later sued Fogerty over his solo recording of "Old Man Down The Road", asserting that it infringed upon Fogerty's previous song "Run Through The Jungle", to which Zaentz owned the copyright. So Mr. Fogerty essentially had to defend himself against the unique contention that he had plagiarized himself. Fogerty eventually prevailed, but it's small consolation to see his Creedence work controlled by others who freely license the songs for use in commercial advertising.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 23:05:57 CET 2002 from (12.34.17.194)

Johnny Flippo

Top 10 Banjo Players (in no particular order)

1)Charlie Poole

2)Tommy Thompson (no, not the politician)

3)Dock Boggs

4)Mike Seeger

5)Uncle Dave Macon

6)Fred Van Epps

7)Mark Ribot

8)Clarence Ashley

9)Gus Cannon

10)Walt Koken

Posted on Tue Feb 19 22:57:07 CET 2002 from dhcp58139.sunyocc.edu (204.168.58.139)

FUNK!!! freddy funk

VINEY??? Just curious. Have you ever considered taking up the banjo. You could skip the plays for serious banjo practice time.. DOCTOR PEPPER!!! Where are you??? HOME ALONE? Lets hear about it pal.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 22:54:30 CET 2002 from spider-ti044.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.194)

Nick

For the record, Fogerty won a million dollar lawsuit against Fantasy records and after the victory uttered the classic words in Rolling Stone, "Let's go have a drink on Fantasy records". Great songwriter of course. When Creedence was inducted into the R&R Hall Fogerty refused to play with the other members of Creedence (which included his own brother). He played with Springsteen and I think Duck Dunn and Steve Cropper (maybe even Booker T.). Hollow as hell but what a feud!

Posted on Tue Feb 19 21:50:48 CET 2002 from (12.33.126.141)

John W.

It would be amusing if Robbie played on John Fogerty's CD, seeing how Fogerty's fans feel he has been ripped off by the music industry business types even more so than some of the members of The Band seem to feel they have been robbed. He makes nothing from his old Creedence tunes, will get nothing from the new box set release and for a while he could not even play his own songs in concerts.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 20:18:19 CET 2002 from (130.219.229.173)

BK

Just read somewhere that John Fogerty is releasing a new CD this year on Dreamworks records. I wonder if RR has any involvement or not. It would be great if he were playing a little bit on it, although Fogerty generally doesn’t have guests on his records. But hey, ya never know….

I don’t know if either of them plays the banjo, though (JCF must… right?)

Posted on Tue Feb 19 19:09:55 CET 2002 from m198214176085.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.85)

pehr

Dreamed last night RR came to town on tour in a bus with a pick up band of unknown rockers. He played some club with these guys and it was balls to the walls blues and R&B. It really rocked. He sang some but mostly did instrumentals. He was really dark, Dark shades, dark clothes and not really pleasant. He was on tour and hated it but had a job to do and they did a Link Wray kind of thing. loud as hell. He was the age he is now but kind of like the carny character, a little slimy. After the show I hung out with some of those guys outside the club. My twin sister came up to RR and unloaded on him saying all that spiritual Native american stuff was a bunch of crap, he was a lowlife creep and she layed it on really thick. Kind of blew my mind. Damn, but that was a hell of a show! club was about 1/2 full.

oh well thats about it. just checkin in.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 18:05:48 CET 2002 from on-tor-blr-ahp-12-115.look.ca (209.161.232.243)

Wittgenstein

I quite like Billy Bragg's version of "Walk Away Renee", the song written by Mike Brown of The Left Banke. Billy doesn't actually sing the song per se, but he tells a rather amusing and poignant tale of love gone bad while Duane Tremelo nicely picks the original melody on guitar. This appeared on a 6 track EP "Levi Stubb's Tears" back in '86

"Walk Away Renee" has had a good run since the original came out in 1966. The Four Tops gave it the Motown treatment and Ricki Lee Jones did everyone a service by recording it on her 10" LP "Girl At Her Volcano". Ricki actually enunciated the words so that the obscure lyrics could finally be heard. I always wondered why the original was recorded so muddily by The Left Banke. And yet, the song was burned into our brains, one of those classics of AM radio, the sort of piece that if it comes up while I'm 'driving along in my automobile', I feel glad.

That 'Byrds Tribute' band that David Powell mentioned below has definitely got to be the low point in the careers of all concerned. I mean I love The Byrds, but guys.....?!

Posted on Tue Feb 19 17:11:21 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

It's distressing to read that the sound of the banjo, unfortunately, reminds Chester of one of those boys squealing like a pig up in North Georgia.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 17:02:45 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Until the mid to late 1920s, the banjo, rather than the guitar, was the prominent stringed, rhythm instrument in jazz & pop bands. This was because the banjo was louder, if not brash, and could be heard amongst the brass & reeds. In the late 1920s, due to better microphones and recording techniques, the guitar began to take the place of the banjo. It was also around this time that the guitar began to be featured as a lead, solo instrument. Later, with amplification, the guitar became even more prominent and the banjo virtually disappeared from jazz.

I recently ran across a bootleg Byrds CD from a live concert at the Boston Tea Party in 1969. The Byrds line-up at that time featured Clarence White on lead guitar, Gene Parsons on drums and John York on bass, along with Roger McGuinn. In addition to "This Wheel's On Fire" and "I Shall Be Released", the Byrds also performed "Long Black Veil". The latter featured John York on lead vocals, rather McGuinn, along with White, Parsons and McGuinn singing harmony. Although I still prefer The Band's version, the Byrds rendition is quite good, with a terrific Tele B-string bender solo by Clarence White.

Bassist John York performed with the Byrds for just a little over a year, from 1968-1969. In 1985 he joined Gene Clark and Michael Clarke in the Byrds "tribute" band that also featured Rick Danko, Richard Manuel, Rick Roberts and Nicky Hopkins. With Rick handling the bass chores, John York played 12-string guitar.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 16:22:13 CET 2002 from 0-1pool216-38.nas32.somerville1.ma.us.da.qwest.net (63.159.216.38)

crow

Nice to see some discussion about Pete Seeger in the old GB. I had the privelege of recording a few sides with him in 1986 while working with singer/songwriter Denis Farley. Denis brought a remote truck to Pete's sloop club and we recorded a few of his tunes. Purely ad lib, he asked me if i had a song I wanted to record. I had just written one, but I thought it wouldn't be that easy to follow because of some quirky chord changes. I went ahead anyway and Pete just nailed it! He knew instinctively where it was going by listening to the melody and was right there for every change. I was quite impressed by his musicianship. The track was never released - I think I have a copy on cassette somewhere...One of Denis' songs from that session (Sandy Beach) is included on his "Moodswing Woogie" CD.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 14:50:06 CET 2002 from p508539e7.dip.t-dialin.net (80.133.57.231)

ulbiman

Hello !! And if you don´t have enuff of that cool banjo stuff, go and get the "Pickin´on...." series by Dennis Caplinger and his friends they perform songs on a special bluegrass tribut album (each)from...Byrds, Pink Floyd, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Stones, Santana, ZZ Top ans so on..... So now let´s try another instrument or let´s talk about....??? Please notice that a new Neil Young cd is to be released in march !! Hey,hey, my, my rock´n roll will never die !

Posted on Tue Feb 19 14:49:33 CET 2002 from imsbbcf05c.netvigator.com (203.198.24.5)

Chris Far East

Normally just read through the always interesting comments but seeing the banjo I thought I'd contribute something. Over Chinese New Year holiday in Hong Kong I brought 2 new CDs for listening pleasure: Gillian Welch and Ryan Adams. I must say the first appeals a lot more to me than the second. It just happens that Gillian Welch plays a fine banjo. Adds a lot of atmosphere and contrast to Dave Rawlings guitar. The first time I heard Ms. Welch was her stunning version of Gram Parson's Hickory Wind. One scribe described it as making the song sound "spooky and as old as the hills". She's a real talent! I'm also a professional musicain (guitarist)and teacher and have at times played the banjo in orchestral productions. In the 1920-40s composers often used the banjo to portray "the jazz age" and/or country "sensibilities". The Threepenny Opera by Kurt Weill and Crazy for You by George Gershwin are both productions I've played in recently. Like the mandolin it has a more metallic cutting tone than the guitar, and was not so easily swamped by the other instruments. We're talking pre-elecrtic guitar days here. Other famous 20th century composers such as Shostakovich and Hindemith also sometimes used the instrument in their scores. Ryan Adams work seems to be 60s & 70s pastich/retro. I think his influences are a bit to obvious and undigested. The only Band in fluence seems to be on a track which has got a "The Weight" feel. Give me the real thing, or someone like Lucinda Williams, any day.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 14:21:48 CET 2002 from spider-wg014.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.24)

Brien Sz

Will the Circle Be UnBroken Vol.I is an excellent 2 cd set that has a great mix of Bluegrass and not overly twangy country music. You can hear Earl Scruggs do some magical banjo work as well as John McEuen BUT Banjo doesn't dominate this cd. No, you get a great assortment of some fine fiddle, dobro and mandolin playing as well. All of it performed by Old School Bluegrass folk such as Doc Watson, Roy Acuff, Pete "Oswald" Kirby, Vasar Clements, and Mother Maybelle Carter to name just a few. The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band realeased it in 1972. A 5 Star Effort!!!!

Posted on Tue Feb 19 09:30:50 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

SITE

Posted on Tue Feb 19 09:22:48 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

I like this sight but don't ya think were beating the hell out of Seeger and the banjo, maybe it's me I'm not a fan of either, I'm not a folk fan and everytime I hear a banjo it reminds me of the canoe trip the boys in Deliverance experianced, not exactly an endorsement for the banjo. staying awake rocking to a little Led Zep, Rock n Roll, how bout Bonham on the skins

Posted on Tue Feb 19 09:14:16 CET 2002 from (194.100.60.131)

Kalervo

Brown Eyed Girl: We' ll be friends, although Finland may surprise Canada in Olympics icehockey! Yes Israel Kamakawiwo'ole was a real fine artist. I hope to get his records more...I have one source from where I have ordered Hawaiian music...I just saw an amazing young Hawaiian ukulele star in a television concert (what a delight it was to see Na Leo, Cyril Pahinui and others live)...Thanks to people like George Winston (whose solo piano album December is one of my all time favourites Christmas records) Hawaiian music gets some recognition.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 07:30:13 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

Mark

Anybody got a copy of the Best Revenge soundtrack? Levon co-starred in this movie & sang (the song was played partially on the radio) Straight Between The Eyes. I'd like to get a first generation copy of this song. If you have it please email me & we'll work out a trade. Mark

Posted on Tue Feb 19 07:23:02 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

Cheney

For those of you who are interested. There are some Man Outside (AKA Hidden Fear) videos at Half.com This is the movie (shot in Arkansas) that 4 of the Band members were in.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 06:01:39 CET 2002 from hse-mtl-ppp72049.qc.sympatico.ca (64.229.199.112)

brown eyed girl

UKULELE PLAYERS??? Kalervo.....Since you really like Hawaiian music.....remember I posted before about Israel Kamakawiwoole? He performs a really pure version of OVER THE RAINBOW/WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD....with a REGGAE GROOVE!.....When you listen to his version....you can feel his pain....I could sense he was hoping that things would change in his life.....He sounded hopeful.....but the challenges in his life were unsurmountable......Unfortunately he died in his late thirties from extreme obesity.....May 20/59-June26/97.....

Norbert:........only in Quebec....:-D

John Donabie: I teach Bob Marley 101.....;-D....For African Heritage month my class did an acrostic poem for Multi-Culturalism......and for the letter M......They came up with Music....Motown....Marley.....Mandela.....Malcolm X......Martin Luther King Jr........I have been reading daily a book on Martin Luther King Jr. and when Dylan's name was mentioned.....they all smiled.....because we have been singing GOD (I changed it to WE) GAVE NAMES TO ALL THE ANIMALS......another REGGAE GROOVE.....Now we're singing SUNSHINE REGGAE by Laid Back just because it's so uplifting.......Anyway, the Caretaker at my school who is of Jamaican heritage borrowed two of my Marley videos that I bought in NYC....since he dubbed for my friends Robbie performing at the Olympics.....He thought the Native Celebration featuring Robbie was absolutely amazing!!........He ended up making a tape for himself!.......He couldn't stop talking about Robbie and the Native dancers.......He understood......what was really happening that night...........However.......he didn't think too much about John and Yoko Ono in Canada which was on the same tape..............but......just for Crabby......I got him to tape a Religious Program right after the Robbie performances........just so he would really feel Irie!

Posted on Tue Feb 19 05:45:10 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

J ~t

I find a good strum incredibly soulful..especially in country music. I simply do not like the sound of a banjo being strummed...that's just not what it was created for.... it sounds unfinished. Grandpa Jones and Pete Seeger stuff just never rang my bell. You're right I do not play banjo..my timing sucks..but I do play guitar and strum the piano some.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 04:40:14 CET 2002 from dialup-65.57.11.104.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.57.11.104)

Pat Brennan

In her wonderful book about all things bluegrass, Marilyn Kochman defines bluegrass as "a type of acoustic country music that has evolved from the string bands of the 1920s and 1930s." She also states that "Bluegrass is one of many modern forms of traditional country music--a music with roots extending back to the earliest immigrants from the British Isles." Although people place the birth of bluegrass as early as the late 1930's and as late as the early 1950's, Bill Monroe, the acknowledged father of bluegrass, started playing the WLS Barn Dance tours based out of Chicago in the late 20's early 30's. Besides playing an energetic style of string band country, Bill and his brothers also did some square dancing. There is a great story that Monroe rehearsed a band to his liking for a month for an appearance on the Opry in 1938. That supposedly was the coming out party for blugrass, which Monroe himself said was beyond the "old time" country fare of the day.

Posted on Tue Feb 19 00:00:54 CET 2002 from (62.30.0.2)

Alan Edge

And we now have the results of the Scouse judge [always open to a bribe - hmmph!]:-

Peter Viney - 5.9/6.0 - one tenth of a point deducted for bringing the fucking thing up in the first place

Yankeeddoodles - 1.0/6.0 - one point awarded to Crabgrass for at least having a sense of hoomer

Synopsis:

Who says the Brits don't produce werld champions. A truly breathtaking performance from a real British know it all. Took on a barrel-load of snarling Yanks and whupped their arses. Yeeha!!

This post btw is my pathetic Scouse attempt at a JOKE!!!!!

I know. I failed. I'll get me coat

:-(

Tomorrows subject; PAUL ROBESON - dig that crazy bass man!!!

Posted on Mon Feb 18 23:58:44 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

BROWN EYED GIRL.......I've been watching your knowledge of music. You should be teaching a course on the history of popular music.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 23:45:00 CET 2002 from bandfan.halden.net (195.70.189.163)

jh

This site will be "left alone" for the rest of the week, as your "janitor" is going to Finland to indulge in saunas, Linux security problems and vodka on ice. Please behave. The guestbook may be slowing down after a day or two if you guys keep up the pace we've seen here recently. If I don't find an Internet cafe or a wireless network to hack into in Helsinki, that is.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 23:36:39 CET 2002 from du-tele3-088.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.88)

Peter Viney

“It turned out nice again” - George Formby’s many hits include ‘Fanlight Fanny,’ ‘Banjo Boy,’ ‘When I’m Cleaning Windows’ (referenced by Van the Man), ‘Leaning on a Lampost’ , ‘Grandad’s Flanellette Nightshirt”and ‘Mr Wu’s A Window Cleaner Now.’ His influenced was limited due to the fact that his style was “difficult to copy” for various physical and musical reasons. I’m sure that all of us Brits are shocked to see him mentioned in the same breath as Pete Seeger, in that George truly was “of the masses and for the masses”.

The name “Darling.” See Rowan Atkinson’s “Blackadder Goes Forth” for why it’s unfortunate!

Posted on Mon Feb 18 23:33:53 CET 2002 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

YES!!!!!!! Gotscha!

Brown Eyed Girl ever seen the sun rise from behind a French mountain? ;-))))

Hey Ilkka, an old house, an old barn, and a lot of work! cheers!

The Band!

Posted on Mon Feb 18 23:28:12 CET 2002 from 0-1pool72-105.nas22.vienna1.va.us.da.qwest.net (63.159.72.105)

Charlie Young

Peter: what is unfortunate about the name "Darling?" The Dillards played a family of socially retarded hillbillies called the Darling family who played magnificent mountain music on the ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW, but I don't think they left a stigma on the name. They, of course, employed the banjo wizard Doug Dillard who later played with the Byrds and Gene Clark.

Back to the banjo thread, I forgot about Jerry Garcia's fine experiments on that instrument. I once saw him play with David Grisman and Old and in the Way at a mid-1970s bluegrass festival here in Virginia and Garcia held his own even though everyone from Earl Scruggs to Grandpa Jones were on the same bill...

Posted on Mon Feb 18 23:16:53 CET 2002 from 3cust75.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.93.75)

Crabgrass

By claiming only 50% of the credit Seeger was far more generous than another songwriter we might mention!! And I guess without Pete The Band would've never recorded those great Willie Dixon tunes on "HOTH."

Pete's brother Mike Seeger was a founding member of the New Lost City Ramblers a very fine '60s folk band dedicated to shedding light on Apalachian "Old Timey Music" while Pete's sister Peggy moved to England and married folk traditionalist Ewan McColl - father of the late Kirsty McColl. So now there's a Pete/Brit connection as well!!

I think that pretty much wraps up the Seeger thread - now on to George Formby. Richard Thompson does one of his humorous little ditties, "Why Don't Women Like Me" and although he jokes about Formby having little musical talent I think he really does have quite a bit of respect for him. Formby, of course, played the ukelele - a more modern day American counterpart being the late Tiny Tim who, of course, recorded with The Band in the Basement. My guess is that Tim was turned on to playing the uke by Arthur Godfrey who is the only other ukelele player I can think of at the moment. However, I'm certain that this thread can be mined for several days and will turn up many others!!

Posted on Mon Feb 18 22:55:35 CET 2002 from spider-wq031.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.154)

Harry & Mim

Friends: On the banjo thread, although I do NOT consider myself a "deadHead", John Jerome Garcia (Jerry) did play a mean banjo. He started his musical life on the guitar in the late 1950's, and took up the banjo several years later. He became quite accomplished on the instrument and made several road trips to hear and tape his bluegrass idols (Bill Monroe, Ralph Stanley, etc.)

Garcia is "remembered" for his banjo expertise on recordings such as "Old & In the Way" and "High Lonesome Sound".

And Joan Baez would be recording "Waist Deep in the Big MUDDY", although "Bloody" would also be an appropriate title.

We are big lovers of both country & bluegrass music (yes, two VERY DIFFERENT GENRES); however, an upcoming show by Levon & the BarnBurners takes us to the heart & soul, the progenitor of so much American Music, the DEEP BLUES.

Hoping to see Guestbook folks at the Conduit in Trenton, NJ this Friday night for the BB's, we remain,

Mim & Har

Posted on Mon Feb 18 22:40:08 CET 2002 from du-tele3-160.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.160)

Peter Viney

And … icons in the gunsights, these are the bits he got from David’s quoted authors. Thomas Paine- self righteousness. Thoreau – who else could write about a year staring at a nondescript pond peppered with hot puns, ‘I have travelled many miles in Concorde’ must be quoting Rod Stewart there, Steinbeck- in his later years wrote a whole book about a poodle pissing on trees (Travels With Charley), Woody Guthrie- well, he was OK.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 22:18:10 CET 2002 from du-tele3-033.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.33)

Peter Viney

Peter S-B wrote: “Sing Out! Magazine, then the Bible of the folk community … echoed some of Peter Viney's complaints. The bi-line for the article was Seeger's wife, but Seeger eventually admitted he wrote it himself.”

That solves it then. I go away for a couple of days, come back and find Pete Seeger’s been posting in the Guestbook, using my name! What a swine! Then some new guy called Thomas Paine is posting about Brits too. Sounds as if he swallowed a dictionary. Does he mean cord or chord? Thought we were talking music. Bloody hell, don’t you guys appreciate all the tea we send you? Next thing, you’ll be chucking it into Boston Harbour.

Still amazed by the ire that dislike of Seeger arouses. May I commend the words of Bob Dylan? “Don’t follow leaders …”. I’ve got to say Pete Seeger seems to be following me around today somewhat spookily. I picked up that Glen Campbell 12 string album. It mentions Pete Seeger. It mentions Erik Darling, who can’t spell his first name and has an unfortunate second name. (“whose utilization of the 12 string guitar on Walk Right In brought it to the public’s attention.” ) I went to the record store to buy the new Lambchop album. There was Pete Seeger’s Tribute album leering at me from the folk selections rack. I didn’t succumb of course, but noted the not unexpected presence of the even more sanctimonious Billy Bragg. Looking up stuff on The Clancys. Damn me. There he was again. Still, I think I can safely say that his influence on Lambchop is between minimal and zilch. One thing about old Communists though is the desire to share and share alike – which seems to be borne out by the large number of “ands …” in Seeger’s writing credits! Seems like he was a skilled musicologist with an eye for talent. Only took 50% of the credit too!

Posted on Mon Feb 18 20:56:52 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

"...The last cord now is broken, the people of England are presenting addresses against us. There are injuries which nature cannot forgive; she would cease to be nature if she did. As well can the lover forgive the ravisher of his mistress, as the continent forgive the murders of Britain. The Almighty hath implanted in us these unextinguishable feelings for good and wise purposes. They are the guardians of his image in our hearts. They distinguish us from the herd of common animals. The social compact would dissolve, and justice be extirpated from the earth, or have only a casual existence were we callous to the touches of affection. The robber, and the murderer, would often escape unpunished, did not the injuries which our tempers sustain, provoke us into justice."
--Thomas Paine

Pete Seeger, for me, epitomizes the American spirit; often stubborn, cantankerous, radical to the extreme, but always fiercely independent in the pursuit of justice. To truly understand his music, one must realize this. Mr. Seeger, throughout his life, has used the art of music as a form of expression to provoke social consciousness, and as a weapon against all forms of tyranny which oppress the human spirit.

Part Thomas Paine, part Henry David Thoreau, part John Steinbeck and part Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger found a way to use music for a higher purpose, beyond the commercial restraints of corporate control. Above all, he found a way to get others to sing along with him and enjoy the message, as well as the music.

"Tolling for the rebel, tolling for the rake
Tolling for the luckless, the abandoned & forsaked
Tolling for the outcast, burnin' constantly at stake
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing."
--Bob Dylan

Posted on Mon Feb 18 20:30:37 CET 2002 from dial2a-59.i2eyenet.com (64.80.2.59)

Hi

PSB's comments about Seeger helping Hopkins, Dixon and other artists reminded me he also helped Rev.Dan Smith and wrote the liner notes on his first album in '71...by the way very much worth checking out....

Posted on Mon Feb 18 20:00:04 CET 2002 from sdn-ar-002paphilp138.dialsprint.net (168.191.210.202)

Peter Stone Brown

Crabgrass, thanks for the mention of the rock and roll hall of fame site.

Concerning the Lucky Strike thing which I doubt happened since the Weavers were blacklisted, the truth is Seeger left the group in 1957 simply to pursue a solo career. The Weavers probably due to the blacklist did not perform all that frequently and their label Vanguard had a habit of releasing albums long (sometimes years) after they were recorded. They also stretched out Seeger's departure over two releases (integrating songs Seeger recorded with that of his replacement, Erik Darling), so it was a long time before Weavers fans were aware he was no longer in the group.

Asides from "The Hammer Song," Seeger is actually responsible for quite a few hits.

As to banjo playing, as with every instrument there are various styles and techniques. Seeger uses the older frailing technique used by most banjo players until Earl Scruggs came along and changed everything with his 3-fingered style of picking.

Seeger has never been one to over-estimate either his singing or his instrumental work and actually doesn't take himself as seriously as many would think. In the mid-sixties, a rather stinging critique of all of Seeger's albums (which were easily in the hundreds) appeared in Sing Out! Magazine, then the Bible of the folk community, which by the way echoed some of Peter Viney's complaints. The bi-line for the article was Seeger's wife, but Seeger eventually admitted he wrote it himself.

Seeger is also responsible for bringing many artists to the forefront as he did with The Clancy Brothers. Some of these artists will surprise some here. The first time I saw Sam Lightnin' Hopkins was at a Pete Seeger concert. Hopkins said it was his first time out of Texas. And he did the same for many other artists including Memphis Slim and Willie Dixon.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 18:47:46 CET 2002 from ppp-3-173.5800-12.telinco.net (212.1.142.173)

Alan Edge

George Formby anyone?

:-)

Posted on Mon Feb 18 18:37:08 CET 2002 from 0-1pool75-180.nas22.vienna1.va.us.da.qwest.net (63.159.75.180)

Charlie Young

Bob Dylan once described Pete Seeger as "saintly" and the two times I met him I understood exactly what Dylan meant. On the other hand, Seeger does--as someone said here--"walk the walk." When asked where he stands on the political spectrum a few years ago Pete simply said, "I am a Communist." I'm sure he wasn't trying to drum up support for Castro or China, just getting some long-due revenge on phonies such as Joe McCarthy and the other assholes who tried to end his career in the 1950s.

Another great day of vindication for Pete Seeger and his music was when the Kennedy Center Honor was bestowed on him a few years ago. The words and music of Roger McGuinn were especially moving that night, and Pete's influence on the Byrds, Arlo Guthie and Dylan are immeasurable.

On the banjo thread, I have to mention Zal Yanovsky of the Lovin' Spoonful and Lowell "Banana" Levinger of the Youngbloods. Levinger's style was one of the quirkiest I ever heard--much like his unusual electric guitar approach. His style was distinctive on both, and especially good for a guy whose real job was as keyboard player (remind you of anyone we know?).

Posted on Mon Feb 18 17:26:15 CET 2002 from 3cust170.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.95.170)

Crabgrass

I was pretty flipped out after checking the Pete Seeger link at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame site recently mentioned by another poster and didn't realize Pete was an inductee. And I'd forgotten that Seeger had written "The Hammer Song" with Lee Hays - the song which launched the career of Peter, Paul & Mary. Also interesting was the notation that Seeger left the Weavers in 1959 after refusing to record a Lucky Strike cigarette commercial with them. (As I recall, Ronald Reagan did a TV cigarette commercial back in the '50s.)

Anyway, I suggest you check out the link if you haven't yet done so. I've repeated it in the above Web Page.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 16:35:25 CET 2002 from spider-tm033.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.58)

Strummin' Sam

C'mon j~t - I wasn't trying to be a guitar authority. I can play guitar, and a little banjo. I have this trigger reaction to the attitude that "faster" or "more" is always better (when it comes to music :-)). There are several different styles of banjo playing. I find it fun to strum the thing, as well as play three-finger style.

Years ago when I was pestering my older uncle to show me something on guitar, he told me that everyone wanted to just play flashy leads, and nobody concentrated on good rhythm playing. That's when I discovered great rhythm playing like Lennon's playing on "All My Loving", and Buddy Holly on "Peggy Sue."

On a diffent subject. I'm typing Levon's interview from the Max Weinberg book so I can send it to Jan for consideration on this site. I'm probably better at pickin' the banjo than typing - so it's taking awhile. It's got some great Levon thoughts in it. Too bad you can't strum a computer keyboard. Wait - let me try = o'pisdjgopijpetogkawEf\er]][re[awawe.

Nah. That's no good.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 16:10:51 CET 2002 from garco.cpe.newsouth.net (64.90.4.86)

Mike Carrico

On Ringo's recording of "Sunshine Life For Me", on which he is ably assisted by 80% of our guys (where was Richard?), there is a banjo to be heard - played by David Bromberg.

I'm not the biggest Pete Seeger fan, but I respect him for his body of work, and for his speaking out on and standing up for what he believes in. He walks the walk. And I'm still waiting for Joan to cover his "Waist Deep In The Big Bloody"...

Posted on Mon Feb 18 15:59:45 CET 2002 from (216.125.170.206)

Mugs

I saw Steve Forbert play Saturday evening at Schuba's in Chicago, and he did a song written in memory of Rick Danko with a chorus about Rick being down to earth and wild as the wind. Are any of you familiar with this song?

Posted on Mon Feb 18 15:32:46 CET 2002 from gateway.uhn.on.ca (205.211.160.1)

Dr. J.

The actor, George Segal, ("Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf with ET, RB, and SD, other movies and TV of late) plays a mean banjo.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 15:22:00 CET 2002 from zorg138.revealed.net (208.243.237.138)

Mike

Banjo players? Roger MGuinn wasn't too shabby of a banjo player. But check out Gene Parsons' work. Now there's a hidden talent...drums, sings, banjo, harmonica, etc... n\ Crabby, Steve Martin compared to Wayne Newton? Weak argument on your behalf. Seek out side 2 of "The Steve Martin Brothers" (1981 Warner Bros). All banjo playing. I think he even does a Scrugss tune also. That guy could do more than "strum" a banjo. Side 2 of that album had damn good playing on it. Too bad The Band didn't incorporate one into their arsenal of instruments...I can sort of picture Robbie on banjo and Levon on mandolin, lol! Another feud! Oh well...Tax time here.

Mike

Posted on Mon Feb 18 15:10:25 CET 2002 from host-65.subnet-76.med.umich.edu (141.214.76.65)

Steve Knowlton

Reaching back a few posts, one thing has always bothered me about "Ohio": the syntax. They sing, "Soldiers are gunning us down, should have been done long ago". I know it's not what they mean, but hearing that, I think, "The soldiers should have gunned us down long ago?"

BTW, don't the "Nixon's coming" sentiments seem a bit feverish considering the times, when Czechoslovakia, South Africa, Chile and other places were showing what a real military crackdown looks like?

Posted on Mon Feb 18 14:56:07 CET 2002 from spider-te041.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.191)

bob wigo

The most obvious benefit of this Guestbook and its diversity of visitors and musical opinion is the opportunity to learn more about the musicians who shape and reshape our world.

The site above is from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and provides a nice overview of Pete Seeger's career.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 14:40:25 CET 2002 from gateway.uhn.on.ca (205.211.160.1)

Jerry Tenenbaum

Some find preaching, social comment, and finger-pointing offensive or not to their individual liking. Nevertheless, this material is often the fabric of what socially conscious songs concern themselves with. Its obviously hard to come across pleasantly when it is a sermon which is being delivered. It may not be pleasant, but those sermons are important, even by the sometimes imperfect individuals who give them. Hearing the concern is probably in the best interests of those that hear them, if they are receptive. If they are not receptive, there is nothing which is going to make a difference. Now, the medium (the beauty of the melody, the playing of the instruments, the singing voice, the way the words are put together etc..... that is another matter entirely. I am not a huge Peter Seeger fan (though I appreciate his contribution to the medium and even admire some of his playing), but being receptive to the challenge of improving my social consciousness, I admire his efforts. The same goes for my clergyman, even though religion is not my forte. If this sounds like preaching or finger-pointing, my sincerest apologies.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 14:33:41 CET 2002 from (66.200.102.18)

JTull Fan

'Another Pleasant Valley Sunday...Rows of houses that are all the same, and know one seems to care...' The Monkees. I guess they were communists too! Don't know enough about Pete Seeger or banjos to join the fray, but I'll leave the performer with some artistic license and not take every lyric at face value. Just got back from a weekend in Charleston, SC. We were staying at the staid Mills House but were psyched that it was blues weekend, celebrated in their courtyard too. Two of their performers were great, with one dedicating a set to Koko Taylor and performing Strawberry Wine! Another did some Clarence 'Frogman' Henry, who I just found out is performing at the New Orleans Jazz Fest. the same days I am there.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 14:28:10 CET 2002 from host-65-164-8-8.co.erie.ny.us (65.164.8.8)

G-MAN

Sat. nite, 2/16, Jim Weider and the Honky Tonk Gurus put on a super show at the Town Crier; hope it was recorded this time!!!! Sid "El Sid" McGuinnis joined the crew, as did the one and only, Tom Izzo!! Hope some GB'ers can make their way to the show at Tribeca Blues!! We know ALL the Road Warriors will be there!!! Thanks Gurus for the GREAT shows!

Posted on Mon Feb 18 14:03:56 CET 2002 from hse-mtl-ppp69001.qc.sympatico.ca (64.229.187.112)

brown eyed girl

BANJO MUSIC: Doc Watson.....Lonesome Banjo
Pete Seeger....OLD TIME RELIGION....Band connection....Rick Danko....TLW

April 13, 1972 Pete Seeger in Rolling Stone...."Some may find them merely diverting melodies. Others may find them incitements to Red revolution. And who will say if either or both is wrong? Not I."

April 1999....Pete Seeger travelled to Cuba to accept the Felix Varela Medal, that nation's highest honour for "his humanistic and artistic work in defense of the ENVIRONMENT and AGAINST RACISM."....Yes....Pete stood for something....when most sit on the fence or don't stand up against anything.....I think saying nothing when injustices occur is just as political as standing up for something.........:-D.....Peter Viney also stands up for something.....great taste in music....If he doesn't happen to like Seeger....so what? We're all entitled to like whoever rocks our world.....aren't we?

Posted on Mon Feb 18 13:53:30 CET 2002 from du-tele3-099.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.99)

Peter Viney

The Clancy Brothers & Tommy Makem at Carnegie Hall is one I have on genuine 60s vinyl and CD. Bob Dylan rewrote two of the songs (The Parting Glass became Restless Farewell, and The Patriot Game became With God on Our Side). He was close to the Clancy’s at the time though I’m sure he’d cite an earlier obscure version. But a lift is a lift. If rock composers do it they end up in court. If folksingers do it they’re “drawing upon tradition.” As a 16 year old I thought With God on Our Side a great improvement, but I now realise that The Patriot Game is less “sanctimonious”(you said it Crabbie, not me). The Patriot Game was played throughout the brilliant play “Lieutenant of Inishmore” which I saw last summer. It’s back in London at the moment and will tour. It’s one of the major plays of the last few years, one of the funniest and certainly the most gory. As to With God on Our Side, the version Daniel Lanois produced for the Neville Brothers has to be the definitive version of the song. Funny, playing the Clancy’s CD this morning – as so often reminded to listen to stuff by the GB- some of the banjo playing is pretty much the kind of strumming that I don’t like (Legion of the Rearguard). But The Parting Glass is at least as good a song as Restless Farewell too- whenever we play any one of three versions, we end up playing all three. My wife believes The Dubliners version to be far superior to the Clancy Brothers (the voice sounds genuinely old and wasted), and we also check out the Dylan version in comparison. Another thing that comes out is how thoughtless some of the revivals of old IRA songs would sound nowadays. It’s all very well standing in Carnegie Hall shouting “Three cheers for the bold IRA!” to major applause, but not so funny if you know some innocent who was killed or maimed by IRA bombers in the 80s or 90s. Of course The Clancy Brothers were singing songs of the 1920s orv 1930s , often with comic intent (Johnson’s Motor Car) rather than about modern urban terrorists.

Just to be even-handed, Billy Bragg is vastly more offensive to my ears than Pete Seeger!

Posted on Mon Feb 18 12:51:57 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

j ~t

Yes...but that not all Robbie done was just strum. For someone that has "Strapped On Enough Guitars To Know" as Bayou "What's wrong with strumming" Sam has....well...enough said.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 11:48:40 CET 2002 from vir.apex.net.au (210.9.66.10)

Bill

My favourite song about suburban conformia is by the Bonzo Dog Band: something like "My pink half of the drainpipe keeps me separate from you".

A great great rock song with banjo is "Dig A Hole", a minor hit by the Hans Staymer Band around '72 or '73. They rate a mention in Jan's discography because their first LP includes a version of "WS Walcott Medicine Show". Though Vancouver based, the group included two phenomenal players from the SW Ontario sub-Hawks circuit - guitarist (and banjoinst) Ed Patterson and organist Robbie King. Between Ontario and the Staymer Band they were in a hit Motown group, Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers, with Tom Chong of Cheech and Chong fame. Far out!

Posted on Mon Feb 18 08:07:12 CET 2002 from spider-wk032.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.162)

Donna

Friday night, at Mexicali Blue's, Jim Weider and The Honky Tonk Gurus, were on fire! Just pure talent on that stage!

3/1, The Gurus will be playing Tribeca Blues! Brown Eyed Girl, get your dancing shoes on! Any other GB'ers going to this show?

Posted on Mon Feb 18 07:59:38 CET 2002 from spider-ta064.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.74)

Bayou Sam

......and Bill Keith.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 07:57:46 CET 2002 from spider-ta064.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.74)

Bayou Sam

j~t = do you actually play the guitar or banjo - it sounds like you don't. Check out Robbie's strumming on "Who Do You Love.". Just as important to the tune as the leads.

Another great banjoist - Don Reno. Also, Roy Clark.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 07:31:55 CET 2002 from 1cust117.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.92.117)

Crabgrass

I'd forgotten about Steve Martin who plays banjo expertly as does Wayne Newton. I saw Wayne do his Vegas show as a free concert about 18 years ago on the plaza of the now vanished Twin Towers. No, I'm not a fan of his but he can play banjo quite well - I was surprised.

As for Bela Fleck - he can play well but the banjo just isn't a jazz instrument (unless it's a tenor banjo in a Dixieland band). His attempts leave me cold.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 07:22:07 CET 2002 from pool-207-68-84-230.char.east.verizon.net (207.68.84.230)

The Doctor

Hi to all! I am looking for copies of the Bands shows from Mountain Stage in 1994 and 1995. I would especially like the complete tape of the 1994 show with Cowboy Junkies and Kieran Kane. Thanks for your help.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 07:08:33 CET 2002 from 1cust113.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.113)

jeffrey

One more time, on the subject of banjos and who can really play em.......www.tonyfurtado.com nothing like you've ever heard.........

Posted on Mon Feb 18 06:45:54 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

j ~t

That gray haired guy with the arrow thru his head always reminded me of Pete Seeger to...had about as much musical talent also. There is a big dfference between "strumming" a banjo and playing a banjo just as there is a big difference between "strumming" a guitar and actually playing one ! I owned one John Stewart record back in the late seventies...all the titles to the songs had the word "Wind" in them....I never owned another.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 06:31:53 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

BAYOU--- Agree on Neil's Ohio, exactly what I had in mind when I was commenting on his latest...A little more on Ohio, I was watching a csny bio and according to Crosby when Time mag did the cover story of Kent with the pic of the young woman kneeling over a dead student he brought the magazine over to Neil's house, according to Crosby Niel looked at the Cover went for a walk in the woods and when he came back, penned on the inside of the mag was Ohio, Crosby imediatly called Nash and told him to get the studio booked asap, they recorded it the next day and the rest is history. Won't get into the debate on who can sing and who can't other than I agree with whoever wrote in here in regard's to Dylan, does he have a great voice and the answer to that is no, can he sing, absolutley, who could sing his music better than Dylan ?

Posted on Mon Feb 18 06:19:28 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

Ed Blayzor

It`s not Peter V.`s attack on Pete Seeger`s music that has upset a few of us, its his attack on him as as person.Trust me Peter V. Seeger does not act "holier than thou", if anything he is very encouraging of younger musicians like myself,and of all types of music- not just "folkies". In general Peter V. I enjoy most of your posts here in the GB ,this time you should have thought a little before posting. One question Peter V., are you a musician? BTW last night the Honky Tonk Gurus smoked the Towne Crier, I`ve seen this band too many times to count and they still just amaze me.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 06:09:41 CET 2002 from 209-239-207-10.oak.jps.net (209.239.207.10)

Phil

There was a gray haired guy in the late 70's who played the banjo with bunny ears and an arrow thru his head. He was pretty good. What ever became of him ?

Posted on Mon Feb 18 05:24:39 CET 2002 from spider-wg053.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.43)

Rick S.

Best Gurus' show ever at Towne Crier, Pawling on Saturday night. Place was packed. The look on Sid McGuinness' face as he watched Jim Weider play said it all.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 05:12:59 CET 2002 from spider-wg031.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.31)

Brien Sz

Good banjo playing i can handle - it's those damn bagpipes that have me runnin for the hills - sounds like a bag full of kittens being tossed from a mountain top as they bounce there way down to the valley floor.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 04:34:30 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

j ~t

Wasn't it Pete Seeger that upon hearing Dylan and The Hawks first playing at Newport ran to his car, rolled the windows up tight and held his ears and screamed ! If you're going to talk about "guru's of the banjo" mention Ralph Stanley or Sonnie Osborne for god sake ....and please try not to clump bluegrass and country music in the same catagory.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 03:54:45 CET 2002 from sdn-ap-001castocp0340.dialsprint.net (63.187.1.86)

jeffrey

I think to sum up the banjo/ Seeger controversy, Whaddya call a banjo that ends up in the dumpster. Perfect pitch! Did I get that right.........???????????

Posted on Mon Feb 18 02:45:42 CET 2002 from 3cust40.tnt38.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.87.40)

Crabgrass

Like it or not, Pete Seeger is one of the great father figures of folkdom carrying on Woody Guthrie's legacy after his illness and inspiring the early folk music gatherings around the fountain in Greenwich Village's Washington Square Park which also helped popularize the '50s Beat Poets and writers. Bob Dylan certainly gleaned and synthesized elements of both in his music while Peter, Paul & Mary melded the "beat look" with the folk song tradition. Prior to Dylan and PP&M there would have been no Kingston Trio popularizing folk music (and bringing acoustic intruments into the mainstream - incidentally, John Stewart much discussed here of late played banjo during his many years and albums with the KT and wrote many of their best original songs) had there been no Weavers (Pete's early '50s folk group). Hence, there would have been no "Folk Boom" in pop music (which took over the airwaves when early rock and roll had petered out (no pun intended, I swear!!)

The Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem (Makem plays banjo btw) were brought into the spotlight by guess who? Pete Seeger! Pete played banjo on their first album (and huge commercial success) "The Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem at Carnegie Hall." (I recall an Irish teenage friend of mine who loved the Clancy's but didn't relish the idea of "commie" Pete Seeger playing with them. Eventually, he became a priest - my friend, not Pete Seeger). There was a PBS documentary on the Clancy's and Tommy Makem a few years back and Dylan was interviewed on camera for a minute - he said he was a big fan of theirs.

Deadheads - didn't Jerry play banjo? Another banjoist, original Incredible String Band member Clive Palmer - their first album was voted the Best Folk Album of 1965 in Britain as I recall.

Some folks would probably label lots of Dylan songs as "sanctimonious." Maybe "When The Ship Comes In," "With God On Our Side," "Masters of War," "Blowin' In The Wind." If someone's dream is to live in a little box or own a condo that's fine - but maybe they should be exposed to a bit of what else is out there in the world. The point of "Little Boxes" is that we're all going leave here in one so why not explore life a little more before we wind up there? As Dylan once said, "I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours."

Crabgrass has spoken!!

Posted on Mon Feb 18 02:37:44 CET 2002 from dialup-64.158.84.92.dial1.buffalo1.level3.net (64.158.84.92)

G-MAN

BTW--Jim Weider and the Honky Tonk Gurus,,and friends put on two killer LIVE shows!Thanks for the GREAT time(s)!!

Posted on Mon Feb 18 02:12:15 CET 2002 from on-tor-blr-ahp-12-41.look.ca (209.161.232.169)

Wittgenstein

I'm really enjoying this Pete Seeger controversy. With regards to "Little Boxes", it was written by a Communist. Have you ever seen pictures of Russian suburbs? They're full of big boxes! And all look just the same.

I remember reading that The Kinks Ray Davies bummed out a lot of people in Britain with "Shangri La", another sort of put-down of middle class conformity. Of course, God Dylan (Godzimma?) always put the middle class dream down "Try to be a suck sess" but no one here wants to admit that, just as we don't think that "Mr. Jones" could ever refer to ourselves. Cause we're too hip right?

Anyway, I'm just coming down to the demonstration to get my fair share of abuse. I'd like to point out that for a lot of people from my generation, the long, strange musical trip began with Pete. I've read Crosby's book "Stand And Be Counted" and you know he admires Seeger because Seeger always took a stand, used his music to advance civil rights, integration, peace, and the environment. (I love Chuck Berry too, but what did he ever stand for? Rockin' in Boston?) Pete Seeger popularized the 12-string guitar, as played by Leadbelly, and developed quite a nice personal style, as in "Living In The Country". My first instrument was the 5-string banjo and like everyone else Pete's red book "How To Play...." was my teacher. He never claimed to be the bluegrass virtuoso that Scruggs is, but he plays various styles well enough to sustain a sixty year career.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 01:50:11 CET 2002 from ip245.halifax9.dialup.canada.psi.net (154.5.34.245)

Pam Marsh

Hello to Levon from Nova Scotia. Pam Marsh here, I met you at the Misty Moon in Halifax when you were playing with the Cates. The owner of the Moon, Terry, introduced me to you and the Cates. I must say we had some interesting conversations!! You signed your autograph, to Pam , don't ever give up , your pal, Levon Helm. I still look at it when I get discouraged and it helps me to move onward!! Thanks. I want to thank you and the Band for all your hard work and the wonderful music which resulted, it has been a source of inspiration to me all my musical life. I have my own CD now, and one of the songs called Rest Easy is inspired by the Band. Thanks for that too. I would like to send you one, if I could get an address. I have a web site, which I entered in the information section - check it out if you can. Again, Levon, thanks for the music and all the best to you and yours. Pam Marsh

Posted on Mon Feb 18 01:47:30 CET 2002 from sc-hiltonhead2a-141.hhe.adelphia.net (24.49.232.141)

Amanda

Brown Eyed Girl: Thanks a million for the birthday wishes!!

I have been listening to "Mud Acres" most of the day...thanks to the wonderful person who sent it my way. I would say that Bill Keith is damn good on banjo!

Gee...I really wanted that Pete Seeger/Sex Pistols video...

Posted on Mon Feb 18 01:26:47 CET 2002 from cpe0000e8c550f8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.157.156.144)

Jerry Tenenbaum

Banjo: "Old Man"-- Neil Young & The Stray Gators. A beautifully laid on banjo. The song would be lessened without it. Incidentally, one of the backup band played the banjo when Neil sang "Old Man" at CSNY concert at the Air Canada Centre last week. A real treat. Incidentally, I agree regarding the Dillards.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 01:17:23 CET 2002 from akcf3.xtra.co.nz (203.96.111.201)

Rod

I should have also mentioned the Pogues whose use of the banjo I really like - especially on If I Should Fall From Grace With God. Ther are probably heaps of others.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 01:13:05 CET 2002 from 24-196-225-108.charter-georgia.com (24.196.225.108)

Don Pugatch

Last night another magical live music event, the ever talented and one of the world's best bass players, Victor Wooten, entertained a crowd of about 2 million of his fans in an old, movie theater converted to a Playhouse. Ready, 15 bucks for a show that lasted over 3 hours. Not only is Victor a talent, his two other brothers were part of his band, Reggie on lead guitar and back up vocals and Joseph on keyboards, besides backing and sometimes lead singing. Victor's other brother, Roy, also know as Futureman, was not in attendance, nor was his other brother, who may have been home watching all the nieces and nephews. So far this month, The Bob Dylan Band Review, The Victor Wooten Family, and this Thursday, John Hiatt, what a month. So what's the point, well, all the "Critics and poets" on this site, you can can make all the observations and criticisms, but funny, how so many criticize what they don't understand. Music, talent, entertainment, since when was there a judge to give a score as to one can sing or not. Live music is so invigorating, and such a life form that has no rating. let's just enjoy, and if some like to talk about this or that, then that is fine, but to do so from the walls of your aboad, without venturing out to the venues, well, that is like driving a car on a nintendo game.

By the by, look for a new Bela Fleck and The Flecktones CD coming out soon.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 01:12:42 CET 2002 from akcf3.xtra.co.nz (203.96.111.201)

Rod

I've missed most of this discussion on Pete Seeger and banjos . The banjo is alot the the accordion in that it gets a bad rap due to it's association with certain types on music. While the accordion has managed to filter into the fringes of rock music and the blues the banjo seems destined to be associated forever with folk and country music. I think I've heard it being used by The Who and Neil Young but not many others.

Posted on Mon Feb 18 00:50:54 CET 2002 from parachute1-156-40-64-122.net.nih.gov (156.40.64.122)

Jonathan Katz

Lil’s entry on Dylan's singing got me thinking about baseball managers [pitchers and catchers have reported to Spring training - so hope “springs” eternal even in Baltimore where the ownership will ultimately sink the ship]. Some of the best managers never made it to the big leagues [e.g. Weaver, Lasorda]. Yet they knew the game with such passion that they could manage a team and make them play above their talent level. Absolutely!

As for ‘Little Boxes,’ I think the point is that the lyrics ARE sanctimonious. I’m sick of those that impose their sense of value on those that buy into a particular dream. Those that struggled to buy their little box made of whatever deserve to enjoy it without some privileged fake [or un-privileged genuine] denying its value.

As for Bach on the banjo: How about Bela Fleck’s “Perpetual Motion?” It is an accomplishment to play that music on that instrument. But I agree with Bayou Sam, Scruggs is the Guru.

Now - back to lurking!

Posted on Sun Feb 17 22:25:13 CET 2002 from du-tele3-096.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.96)

Peter Viney

Dave Z - Burl Ives. Generally, yes. But I do still have my original single of “Funny Way of Laughing” somewhere. The only one of The Band who ever ventured into the territory to my knowledge (Ives-Seeger) was solo Rick Danko. Even so, his version of Blue Tail Fly was infectious and full of natural warmth and bonhomie. And it was Rick. And I’d listen to Rick singing the Yellow Pages. Anyway, I've said much too much this weekend. Will try to be quieter this week.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 21:43:14 CET 2002 from spider-tp041.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.191)

Bayou Sam

Geez - do we need to form a support group for people who can't handle the fact that Peter dosen't care for Pete? We'll get through this. C'mon, group hug :-)

Hey Peter - grab that Dillard/Glen Campbell album. Sounds like a good one.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 20:59:58 CET 2002 from spider-te063.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.203)

Dave Z

I'll always looked at the Cros as a folkie... he likes harmonies like the Weaviers, no?... he does that whole political thing... hangs with folkie Neil... I'm surprised you don't like Seeger too, Peter V. but everyone is entitled to their tastes (Does Burl Ives bug ya too?)... Those Arlo & Pete shows I saw were among my most treasured... and that Weavers documentary wasn't half bad either... Peace people...

Posted on Sun Feb 17 19:10:53 CET 2002 from du-tele3-168.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.168)

Peter Viney

Richard P: I’ve made a mental note to think three or four times before attacking classic American artists I don’t appreciate. The Seeger firefight pales against the Hank Williams Snr one – which was started by my peripheral remark after a discussion on Jnr (“If the South would have won”). On Hank Snr, I was persuaded by the barrage of abuse to buy a Greatest Hits and I did eventually get into it, so I’ll cross him off the dislikes list. I also bought a George Jones, tried hard, still didn’t like it particularly. You missed one classic - I enquired a few months ago whether it was worth buying a ticket for the Willie Nelson tour. I’ve tried there too, and though the odd thing sticks, his habit of just failing to get familiar melodies right irritates me. Think I’ll go and see him anyway, see if I change my mind. Hope I do.

BTW, nothing against banjo – but I just prefer it by the Dillards (or Earl Scruggs). I saw an interesting old World Pacific album in a secondhand store on Saturday – only £2.75 too. It was folk classics for 12 string guitar – featuring Glen Campbell on 12 string with Doug and Rodney Dillard. It looked as if it were early 60s and also as it were a 12 string guitar promo item. Think I might go back and get it tomorrow if it’s still there.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 18:43:04 CET 2002 from cache-bas-hsi.cableinet.co.uk (62.31.224.1)

Alan Edge

DO NOT FORSAKE ME OH MY DARLING

The odour hung ominously in the air. Fear? Perhaps. Foreboding? Maybe. Stale hamburgers? Possibly so, even here in this dark corner of nowhere.

Call it what you will. We shall never really know for sure. That night in that narrow alley, whatever it was stalked nostrils desperate for something fresher.

Yet, in those moments that followed no change would come. No fresh pastures would materialise out of the thin air. The protagonists at either end of that alley were already set on their destinies. It was too late to stop now. Two worlds were about to collide. Two lives mapped out eons before were now ready to discover what had laid in store for all those years.

Either side of them the ramshackle shanty pulsed with offers of refuge. Lights shone from caravan windows. The shadows formed offered them an escape. Beseeching them to accept a way out. Yet, in reality, the flickering lights merely emphasised the steely resolve etched deep across each of their faces. The easy option was spurned. The get-out clauses rejected out of hand. These were men who simply never turned back. This was their Tombstone. Their Dodge City. This was their alleyway of fate.

As they drew nearer, their eyes met. Bizarrely, it revealed disparate appetites for the momentous rendezvous about to unfurl.

The one oozed relish. The other, meanwhile in stark and sobering contrast, reeked of dread.

It was suddenly clear the stench of foreboding had emanated from one source alone; that those seemingly corresponding resolves had been fed by differing fuels. At once, an upper hand had been established. The rule of the jungle would apply here as anywhere. And this alleyway was no place for the faint-hearted.

The protagonist relishing his fate was now sprightly, hungry even; seemingly eager to pounce. The other was cagey, as if almost frozen in the glare of the spotlights from those caravan windows either side. He glanced almost desperately either side at the lights that shone on him. Now he would have taken any one of them to make his exit. To transport him away in some mythical ray. Now he prayed for a door to open to invite him in. Any light. Any door. Anything. A hole in the ground, even, to swallow him.

It was too late now. Perhaps, it had always been too late. The sprightly one, the younger of the two was too nimble. Moved far too fast. Even before his older adversary had time to realise what was happening, he had flashed out his arm from his side and grasped the hand of his adversary with as firm a handshake as he could conjure up.

"Don't mind I hope Van, lad. Respect mate!"

As they loosed go after what was a vigorous shake, the younger man walked off into the night. Smiling. Content. An over-enthusiastic fan off perhaps to bother others of similar repute amidst that backstage shanty. Garth? Richard? Rick? Meanwhile, Van Morrison stared disbelievingly at his hand; moulded as if putty. He wondered to himself whether he'd ever be able to play the piano again.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 18:17:55 CET 2002 from hse-mtl-ppp70775.qc.sympatico.ca (64.229.194.108)

brown eyed girl

HAPPY IRIE BIRTHDAY TO THE TWO J'S DOWN SOUTH......JAKE AND JOEL.....FUTURE BAND FANS!

Posted on Sun Feb 17 18:16:53 CET 2002 from spider-wk082.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.187)

Bayou Sam

Crabby says, "I love the way Dylan can't sing and wouldn't change it for the world....". Perfect description.

Seeger is NOT the guru of the banjo - Earl Scruggs is.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 17:56:19 CET 2002 from st-catherines-ppp112481.sympatico.ca (216.209.140.110)

Richard Patterson

PETER VINEY: You cloth-eared yob (meant affectionately) . Regarding PETE SEEGER. Once again, you add to the list of classic American artists that you cannot appreciate. (A list that includes George Jones and Hank Williams Sr.).

Peter Stampfel (Author of the Harry Smith liner notes - and a fine banjo player) clarifying a misquote from a 1981 interview: "He says I hated Seeger--nonono! I hated banjos until I heard Seeger play a 5-string. I wasn't aware of 5-strings, although I heard the Weavers do Tzena Tzena Tzena on the radio in 1950 or '51. I didn't know that was a banjo he was playing. I never heard of 5-strings until Seeger. Seeing him play live in the '50s was a real epiphany. He seemed more good than just about anyone I'd ever seen or heard of."

Posted on Sun Feb 17 17:48:48 CET 2002 from spider-wm034.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.164)

Brien Sz

I don't see anything wrong with being a 'little box' or living in a 'little box'and I don't mind the structure of life that has afforded me my little box. Hell, it's my box and i'll decorate it the way I want to! And being it's my box, I find it unique and special, it knows no bounds expect that which i put on it! - So I ask who are these folkies who protest without a viable solution that moves beyond theory? Profess they're way of thinking is the way the world should be - - that flawed quasi-socialist, Star Trek Next Generation Utopian sit around the camp fire and mock the middle class, deride the corporate structure and claim they're way is the way of virtue..., Let me stand shout from the hilltop, my voice be heard by all "I AM A LITTLE BOX AND I LOVE IT! FLAWS AND ALL, I EMBRACE THEE - -wheww, too much coffee this morning.

On a slighty saner note: I just finished reading "Founding Brothers" an excellant look at important segments of the lives and events of the Founding Fathers of America. I find the command of language these gentlemen, Adams, Jefferson, Washington, Madison, Franklin, Burr and Hamilton had, to be extraordinary. Eloquent in one sense and a grammarians nightmare in another. Their use of anecdotes and metaphors is stunning. To have had so many brilliant minds converge in this tiny span of time to form the "thought" of a free government by the people and how they hammered away at each other in beautiful oratory and letter writing to keep this new 'working theory' alive is simply mind boggling - both serene and viscious.

By the way - When i was in the 5th grade, we used to sing "Little Boxes" in music class. It was cute then and it was an archived memory until the recent slew of posts.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 17:47:57 CET 2002 from dial2a-109.i2eyenet.com (64.80.2.109)

Hi

Did anyone catch Sheryl Crow on Bravo last week? I believe she said the demo Dylan sent her of Mississippi did not have him singing on it, no wonder it hasn't been booted...

Posted on Sun Feb 17 17:38:14 CET 2002 from bandfan.halden.net (195.70.189.163)

jh

Btw, Ilkka and other Finnish friends, I'll be going to Helsinki next week, attending a USENIX conference and relaxing. Any site regulars up for a beer or something while we're there?

Posted on Sun Feb 17 17:32:18 CET 2002 from bandfan.halden.net (195.70.189.163)

jh

Ilkka,

I agree, the Opera web browser is highly recommended, both for Linux and Windows. It's available for free from http://www.opera.com/. And now, back to the olympics. Time for the Norwegians to rake in more medals.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 17:15:45 CET 2002 from du-tele3-008.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.8)

Peter Viney

“Live at the Darlington Conservative Club (29.2.79)” – I can only do copies for the first ten applicants. And some of the language (Bells of Rhymney) may be offensive to miners, like Idris Davies the guy who wrote it in the first place. Most of what Sid says is a bit ‘strong’ obviously, but remember that a lot of these expressions like ‘It’s in C, you f+++ing old tosser’ and ‘1, 2, 3, 4 and 4 means you start strumming, ******* ***** *****,’ are meant affectionately in Britain, though the remarks addressed to the photo of Margaret Thatcher on the wall are probably just deeply filthy and offensive anywhere.

I’m sure Ilkka has tapped into my subconcious for the second time in two days and that the caricature of the progressive and didactic elementary teacher is what is getting to me. What with the dreams of Joan Baez and Pete Seeger which cannot be described, it’s time for a bit of hypnotic regression therapy.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 17:09:37 CET 2002 from notebk1.wdse.org (131.212.19.70)

Marsen

Good Grief! What a topic! It sure is interesting to see the emotions running wild about Pete Seeger. I'm actually quite suprised to see that Peter V has such a dislike for the guru of the banjo. I do however see the tounge-in-cheek humor, and take no offense, even though I do respect Pete Seeger (granted he doesn't get played at my house much). The thread did get me thinking though, about the fact that I was exposed to that type of music well before I got totally hooked on The Band. It all started when I began borrowing my uncle's early Bob Dylan albums, and playing them until the grooves wore out. At the time I was not yet familiar with his "electric" albums, and developed a deep love of his acoustical stuff. I guess you could say I was a purist folkie. (and that was about the time I first heard Pete Seeger) When I started to listen Bob's electric albums, I was totally shocked! My first impression was sheer dismay at the thought of Him radically changing the course of his music. I really did feel betrayed, and tried to forget Bob's musical expantion and kept listening to the old stuff. As I grew older, I found myself gradually accepting the "new" stuff, and read a Biography on Bob. It was then that I had discovered THE BAND! I actually stopped reading the book, and went down to my local library ( I was a kid then)and rented Big Pink on vynil. From then on I was hooked!!! Music had become a big part of my life then and I can honestly say that The Band helped me get through those tough teenage years. So, ironicly after finding The Band, I found myself really loving Bob's electric music, and rock and roll in general. So all these years later, and I'm a bigger Band fan than ever, and play them fifty to one over Bob now, and am hardly a "folkie" anymore. Nevertheless I still remember my early roots in music which led me to The Band.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 16:03:22 CET 2002 from du205-3.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.3.205)

Ilkka

Thread: PETE SEEGER - Folk singer MALVINA REYNOLDS wrote in her 60's song 'Little Boxes':

Little boxes on the hillside
Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Little boxes, little boxes
Little boxes all the same.
© 1962 by Schroeder Music Co., Berkeley

Then follows a description of the white middle-class monoculture society where all go to the university, all play on the golf course, have pretty children who all go to summer camp, and then to the university and into business, marry and raise a family. And they all get put in boxes.

This is one of those great folk (or protest) songs which feel helplessly out-dated today. On the same time, their impact was enormous. You have only to read PETER VINEY's post where he still feels the hurt of being (almost) personally attacked by PETE SEEGER, the caricature of a progressive and didactic elementary school teacher.

PETER VINEY shouldn't take it personal. Although PETE SEEGER might have had the song in his repertoire as a common protest song this song is more _specific_. If you leave San Francisco via 19th Avenue, which turns into Highway 1 south of the city, you'll pass ridges of boxy houses in pastel and off-white tones referred by MALVINA REYNOLDS in this particular song. The sight is both outstanding and horrible against the diversity in the San Francisco Bay Area. Nothing to do with the sights in England. If you want to see English "boxes" drive to the south for a couple of hours and visit Carmel. ...Hmmm... maybe not Peter Viney because this is the JOAN BAEZ town ;-)

Thread: BROWSERS - I recommend a Norwegian browser. It gives a special feeling to visit this site using it. (I won't tell the name of the browser because I don't want to promote a commercial product here. The name has something to do with La Scala and Metropolitan.)

Posted on Sun Feb 17 13:38:21 CET 2002 from cache-udd.cableinet.co.uk (194.117.151.68)

Alan Edge

PETE, SID AND THE LADS

Profound thanks owed to Peter Viney for sending me the video of that '79 Pete Seeger/Sex Pistols concert up at Darlington. Nice one Mister Viney sir!

Got to say from the outset I found the entire thing scarcely believable. Truly incredible stuff. And at the local Conservative Club too. Just goes to show, I suppose, rock 'n' roll really does know no boundaries. Political or otherwise. I mean who the fuck would want to go to Darlington anyroad?

Now I'm sorry to say I was too busy spreading whoppers up in the Outer Hebrides of Scotland to catch that famous mid sixties Newport Festival gig with Bob and his boys. The one when the archangel of folk opted to go live. Literally. By all accounts, though, it was pretty electrifying stuff.

One thing's for sure, however. It cannot have surpassed this gig of Pete jamming with the Pistols. No way. All that blue spiky hair. Wow! How did they do that? A surge of juice through Pete's ukelele? Oodles of gel? Don't suppose we'll ever know now with Sid gone and all.

So many highlights of course. Too many to mention here. Not least those in everybody's hair. The thing which really stood out though - again apart from everybody's hair - was the finale. That jam on "Little Boxes". UNREAL!!

Take me to the River Hudson little darlin!!

Or the Mersey for that matter! Mercy Murkey Mersey! Those screeching harmonies on the line "all made out of ticky tacky". Can rock get any better than that ?? And then, as if to bind it all together, those giant rolls of sellotape enveloping everyone at the very end?

SURRENDER to me baby and let me wrap you in these loving rolls! Too much sticky man! Or what.

And then that snatch of the interview with Sid and Pete in the bar afterwards. Crazy. That interviewer sure found out just what puke and punk were all about after Sid and Pete let rip all over him. And just after telling him not to take seriously anything that came out their mouth as well! Poetic irony or what?

One question for the real afficionados, though. Something I really would like to know the answer to. That huge solid silver safety pin through Pete's nose? The three foot long one?

Did it affect Pete's sinuses? Only the reason I ask is I wouldn't mind getting one meself like. Thing is I suffer a bit from the old sinusitis and I just wondered how Pete fared with it. Does anyone know if he still wears it? Was it a proper safety type or one of those that just looks as if it's real?

Final thing. I thought that was a nice touch of Alice Cooper after the show was over. When he walked round with that billboard proclaiming how much he really like skool. Nice one Alice love. Er lad. Whatever. Brought a sort of symmetry to the occasion I felt. The demise of anarchy perhaps?

By the way, anyone know if a reunion tour is planned?

Posted on Sun Feb 17 13:19:36 CET 2002 from (64.80.240.46)

Lil Again

Well gee... thanks Mr. Paige for bumming me out even more with those wonderful sound clips you sent to Jan from the Last Waltz tribute concert in Chicago. Just as I was feeling better about not being able to be there.... :-)

Posted on Sun Feb 17 12:20:25 CET 2002 from (64.80.240.46)

Diamond Lil

This latest thread about Dylan's singing got me thinking here about songwriters and singers on a whole. I've always thought that some of the best songwriters never made the best singers.. yet all of them could sing their own stuff with such passion that it sounded great regardless. Dylan is one example. Not the classic singer, but a poet who puts such feeling into his songs that he's the only one you want to hear do his stuff. Same with the likes of Carol King or Neil Young. Would they be up there in the top 10 best singers of all time? No. Can they sing? Absolutely!

I remember over the years hearing from several friends who thought Rick Danko couldn't "sing". Imagine that!! I guess the sound of a voice is all in the person listening to it. As Ragtime just said (hellloooo down there :-) .. if it moves you and makes you feel something.. that's all that matters.

Have a great day everyone. Hug Jan.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 11:56:53 CET 2002 from du-tele3-152.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.152)

Peter Viney

I know and you know that there are two Seegers. One is known to family and friends and fans, and I know absolutely nothing about this man. Some of you do on a personal level and were offended. My profuse apologies for this. I’d mentioned him peripherally, got knocked for doing so and tried to explain myself. My response to Ilkka’s humorous comment (waking up between Baez and Seeger)was intended to be light too.

The other Seeger is a “public figure” and public figures are open to public criticism. The public figure travelled with Guthrie, was heroic in the McCarthy era, and is acknowledged as one of the founders of the folk revival without whom … etc etc, and is revered by people like McGuinn and Crosby. I very much like The Byrds versions of Turn, Turn, Turn and Bells of Rhymney. On the latter, any claim that Seeger “wrote” it, carries the same weight that saying Paul Simon “wrote” Scarborough Fair or Dylan “wrote” Restless Farewell or With God On Our Side does. I happen to think Seeger’s performances on TV and record are awful, and I find his public persona objectionable. I am not alone. I had never looked at the Rolling Stone Record Guide entry until now I’m sure … but guess what? The exact same word ‘sanctimonious’ is used (and by an American critic):

‘His entertainment, while educational, can also be preachy and sanctimonious on political issues’ (Rolling Stone Record Guide).

On Carnegie Hall 1968 “I don’t think Pete Seeger was too thrilled to see us at first, but the audience was warm … and Bob tore it up!” (Levon Helm)

“The whole folkie thing was still very questionable to us – it wasn’t the train we came in on. (Dylan)’d be doing this Pete Seeger suiff and I’d be saying ‘Oh, God!’ (Robbie Robertson)

‘The point was to sing (songs) in exactly the same style… to emphasise the brotherhood of man and to make it very easy for the masses to sing along … That was the Pete Seeger philosophy …’ (Joe Boyd).

Boyd puts the finger on it. It’s patronizing. No wonder the guy would have to prove he could play Bach on his banjo while dumbing down to simple stuff for the “masses”. Most of those 40s and 50s campus socialists were (a) not of the masses themselves (b) patronizing. We had a lot more of them here than you did in America! I guess he had novelty value in the USA. Susan makes the point, ‘Little Boxes’ is at root a class put-down from a priviliged elite, of which Seeger was a member.

The Newport 65 story is most Dylan books, and can be traced back to noted folk producer Joe Boyd who was working at the sound desk himself and an eye-witness. He was the actual go-between between the desk and the “Board”. Pete Seeger and Alan Lomax were the ‘baddies”- Lomax more violently than Seeger, and Peter Yarrow was one of the ‘goodies’ giving Lomax the finger when the “Board” (Seeger, Lomax, Bikel) “ordered” the sound turned down.Yarrow was also on the ‘board’ and declined to allow this. Seeger then left – was last seen striding towards the car park, while Lomax (“gnashing his teeth”) seems the more likely candidate for the axe story. No one was closer to the event than Boyd was.

And ever on to “Mississippi”. Don’t forget that Dylan gave the song to Sheryl Crowe, and her version was released two or three years earlier. I got fascinated with comparing them when ‘Love and Theft’ came out. At first (for about a fortnight) I prefered Sheryl Crowe’s version. I feel that she found a chorus instrumental tune in there that the mid-60s Dylan would have added to the song – or Al Kooper or TheHawks would have added it for him, and that was an achievement. After I’d let the Dylan creep in there, I much prefer his version.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 11:26:22 CET 2002 from schltns-3.demon.nl (212.238.196.9)

Ragtime

Re "singing"

Are we talking about intonation, vocal "purity", using your voice like your teacher would want you to: well then Bob Dylan, or our own Richard Manuel, can't "sing".

Are we talking about soul, emotion, the ability to touch people right in their hearts by means of that undefineable power that's in your voice: well then they are the greatest singers in the world.

Yes they can sing.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 09:07:09 CET 2002 from cranberry.cache.fi.jippii.net (195.197.160.12)

Kalervo

Bob Dylan can't sing..How narrow-minded people can be...Listen for instance his albums from the flamenco soul period (Decade, Street Legal), the exceptional vocals all around, especially Changing of The Guards.Someone has said that the human singing voice is usually at its best at 35,like Dylan was then...But old Bob is still a wonderful, imprecise, strong vocalizer....

Posted on Sun Feb 17 07:55:36 CET 2002 from hse-toronto-ppp178546.sympatico.ca (64.229.83.135)

Blind Willie McTell

Dylan can sing. 'Course he can. Love and Theft proves it.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 06:52:41 CET 2002 from 3cust160.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.93.160)

Crabgrass

Hey, don't get me wrong!! I love the way Dylan can't sing and wouldn't change it for the world. And although I think Mariah Carey CAN sing - I can't stand hearing her do so. Very perplexing.

For the record, I do care what the British rock critics say - especially when I agree with them.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 06:47:58 CET 2002 from cfa1.execulink.net (199.166.6.10)

Paul Godfrey

Stanley...great to have you back on the GB.

When I first heard them I really thought Dylan and Kristoferson could not carry a tune. Consider...they are Originals. They are their own personalities. Caught Dylan at least three times with the Band and Kris doing a concert just after Terry Fox died. He intro'd a song by saying: "This is for Terry Fox!" Then he sang "Why Me Lord".

With the passage of time I have come to better appreciate both entities and how they have become apart of our lives.

John, John, great Pete Seeger post. Shine On everbody.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 06:35:27 CET 2002 from sdn-ar-002paphilp133.dialsprint.net (168.191.210.197)

Peter Stone Brown

Viney, again your comments on Seeger are groundless and totally stupid. Seeger didn't then and still doesn't have any qualms about rock and roll. You do not have the slightest clue what you are talking about, so your silence in this matter would truly serve your better interests.

As to British rock critics, what the hell do they know?

Posted on Sun Feb 17 06:35:08 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

j ~t

When my ears hear the sound of Joan Baez or Pete Seeger I know exactly what a cat feels like when it's fur is rubbed backwards.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 06:07:56 CET 2002 from wwwcache.lanl.gov (128.165.156.80)

Kay

Bill:

Roger Tillison has just finished a new record, produced by Walt Richmond of The Tractors (who also played with Rick Danko). Recorded at Richmond's studio in Tulsa, the CD is 10 songs, all original except for Son House's Pony Blues with Jr. Markham on blues harp. There should be more info on Roger's website one of these days. I heard some of it in the early stages and I thought it was pretty great.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 04:48:16 CET 2002 from parachute2-156-40-65-138.net.nih.gov (156.40.65.138)

Jonathan Katz

I’m not sure what “singing” means to Crabgrass or anyone else. But IMHO Dylan can indeed SING. I don’t mean that he hits all notes in an anticipated or traditional way – but he conveys a feeling better than most. Virtually any Dylan song out there loses significantly when someone else sings it. Just compare the recent “Mississippi” by Sheryl Crow and the one by Dylan. Its no contest – Dylan’s version reduces Crow’s to just a bit of pop – reminiscent of Joan’s version of “Dixie.”

Posted on Sun Feb 17 04:22:35 CET 2002 from cpe0000e8c550f8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.157.156.144)

Jerry Tenenbaum

Reflections: 1) "Dylan can't sing". It all depends on what your perspective is. Are we talking about Pavarotti, Diana Krall, the ability to sing in some predefined acceptable way that appeals to the masses. Is that what "can sing?" has become? Or, is singing defined by style and performance and personal identity? Cohen CAN sing. Young CAN sing. Waits CAN sing. And Dylan CAN DEFINITELY sing. 2) Robbie Robertson: With the dirt of SKATEGATE still polluting the air of the Olympics (there is still a lot of cleansing before there should be any comfort, despite the individual righting of a wrong), Robbie's presentation and the honouring of the aboriginal PEOPLE stand in direct counterpoint to each other. Robbie's performance was understated and the effect of the entire thing was sublime. Still the best thing I have seen yet at these Olympics.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 02:24:26 CET 2002 from i249-009.nv.iinet.net.au (203.59.249.9)

Nancy

Hi Bill Munson:

I'm an Aussie and I'm here (seem to be the only one left writing to the GB). When the reissues hit local stores (?)last year, the guys there told me sales were great, so I can't understand why there aren't more of us writing.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 01:52:10 CET 2002 from sdn-ar-001ilurbap064.dialsprint.net (158.252.113.48)

Susan

Well, "Little Boxes" is a bit of a class put-down. That sort of thing was all over the American Left in the 60s, or at least the left-leaning university community. I first heard it when I was 18; I remember being uncomfortable with the song, and not understanding why people thought it was so great, but I was not enough of a cultural analyst to know just why.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 01:34:13 CET 2002 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Stanley Landau

Mr. Paige: Thanks very much for providing the cover of King Harvest. Who are these guys? They're amazing.

Posted on Sun Feb 17 00:39:58 CET 2002 from cache-mtc-al05.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.234)

Bayou Sam

What's wrong with strumming?

Posted on Sun Feb 17 00:17:12 CET 2002 from dv128s68.lawrence.ks.us (24.124.68.128)

Dexy

The idea that "Dylan can't sing" is pretty absurd.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 23:48:23 CET 2002 from pad-cache2-1.cache.telstra.net (165.228.129.12)

Bill

I'm of the view that an artist who's achieved real things early on should be remembered always for those achievements and not expected to excel for the rest of their days on earth. Pete Seeger and his chums in the Weavers helped to achieve, it seems to me, real social improvements in the US in the '40s, '50s and early '60s - much much more than any of us here can claim. Plus he turned a bit of the bible into one of pop's lovelier songs, "Turn Turn Turn". "The Bells of Rhymney" (sp?) is not too shabby either. Plus dedicating one's declining years to saving a river must rate as a good thing too, even if it means playing folk fests to collect money for the cause. Oddly enough, the paragraph after the excerpt from the Tillison bio that I posted last time talks about Tillison's work on the Hudson with Seeger.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 23:35:55 CET 2002 from du-tele3-039.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.39)

Peter Viney

But … finally … Seeger would definitely have booed the Band in 1966. My case rests!

Posted on Sat Feb 16 23:31:08 CET 2002 from du-tele3-039.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.39)

Peter Viney

Phew! Stirred up more this time than last time. BUT I will maintain that he's a holier-than-thou dullard who can't sing and everything I've ever heard from is awful. No, I didn''t know he didn't write 'Little Boxes', so I'm 100% wrong, but he is to blame for spreading a trite and inept song. BTW, while it is probably even worse to quote "the majority of rock critics" I would wager anything that I am repeating the opinion of the average (British) rock writer - see virtually every comment I've ever read this side of the Atlantic. Maybe he has this icon thing in the USA which has intangible connections, but from a distance … well, I had my say! I'll go and listen to Visions of Johanna, and possibly Newport 65.

As to playing Bach on the banjo, my reaction is Why? It sounds perfectly good on the instruments it was written for. Playing Bach on a banjo is exactly what I'd imagine him doing. Pretentious. Bet Woody Guthrie or Bob Dylan never thought it the appropriate thing to play.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 23:23:44 CET 2002 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

John D, thanx for that great post.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 23:08:11 CET 2002 from 1cust174.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.94.174)

Crabgrass

As most of us know, Berkeley's Malvina Reynold's wrote "Little Boxes" a clever little tune about the encroachment of conformity in our modern day lives and very influential on the thinking of the '60s which was largely a rebellion against conformity. Malvina was in her '60s at the time and couldn't sing either - probably never could. Yet, she also wrote the beautiful and powerful landmark environmental song "What Have They Done To The Rain?" Libba Cotton couldn't sing either but wrote the classic tune "Freight Train," was Peter Seeger's nursemaid to boot and probably helped him learn to "Cotton Pick" though she was lefty and played guitar upside down. Pete's "Waist Deep In The Big Muddy" was a powerful anti-Vietnam War protest song with some great fingerstyle playing.

I don't really see what it proves to say that Dylan wrote "Visions of Johanna." Obviously, one doesn't need to be a great singer to create a great song or melody (Hoagy Carmichael and Robbie Robertson come to mind). McCartney and Lennon were Dylan fans and yet both of them could really carry a tune.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 22:09:40 CET 2002 from notebk1.wdse.org (131.212.19.70)

GRUB

I think ol'Pete says it best with what His Banjo reads: "This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender."

Posted on Sat Feb 16 21:30:26 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

A few years back when my son was full of protest and he wanted to go busking for a career, he always used the phrase, "Don't let The Man get you down." He was always talking about "The Man"....in other words the establishment. Billy Bragg was the hero of his generation and his other hero was Pete Seeger of my generation.

My wife and I were at The New Orleans Jazzfest and I saw my son's hero Pete Seeger. I asked him if he would sign an autograph to Jimi with the phrase, "Don't Let THE MAN Get You Down." He did so with a smile and never questioned me as I looked rather embarrassed for asking a rather silly question. I've never forgot his kindness and passion.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 20:08:11 CET 2002 from sdn-ar-002paphilp217.dialsprint.net (168.191.210.233)

Peter Stone Brown

Peter Viney, it is you who is the sanctimonious one in your attack on Pete Seeger who is anything but sanctimonious. You don't know what you're talking about on a musical level.

While Pete Seeger stums on many songs, he is hardly a strummer as a musician. But you wouldn't know this since your opinion is already formed and you wouldn't bother to take the time to listen. Anyone who can play Bach on the banjo is not a strummer. Your comment about Seeger never murdering a Band song because they're too hard to play and the lyrics too complex is beyond all bounds!

The whole Seeger at Newport thing has been distorted way out of proportion over the years as to what actually happened.

Seeger did not write "Little Boxes," and your comments on the song reveal you totally misunderstood the point of it.

By the way, the Band (or Hawks) played with Dylan not the other way around.

You clearly don't get it and you would be well served to keep your unfortunate knee-jerk reactions to yourself instead of viciously criticizing what you obviously do not understand.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 18:10:03 CET 2002 from du-tele3-141.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.141)

Peter Viney

Ilkka: If I woke up between Pete Seeger and Joan Baez … first I’d decide it was time to become teetotal. I’d never drink to excess again and pray that I’d been in closer proximity to Joan than Pete. Both get minus points for being sanctimonious on record, and Seeger never murdered a Band song (they’re too hard to play and the lyrics are too complex) but having seen Joan interviewed on TV I thought she was enormously likeable and she definitely has a sense of humour, and she’s aged most gracefully. If my heart survived the shock, I think I’d put ‘Royal Albert Hall- Disc Two’ on the CD player full volume, tell Pete Seeger to p*** off (if he hadn’t fled already at the first notes), and then I’d make a good pot of coffee, and look forward to a breakfast chat with Joan. I’d try really hard to avoid telling her what I think of her version of Dixie, and steer the conversation towards less controversial matters. I’d hope to hear some revealing and funny Dylan stories. But I probably wouldn’t ask her to sing me a song.

On the whole though, I’ll try to contain my more extreme dislikes. Certain artists cause a kneejerk reaction in me, and Pete Seeger is definitely an “Aargh! Pass the earplugs! Get me out of here!” Sorry, can’t help it. I picture him in make-up with a big photo of Woody Guthrie saying, ‘Make me look like that.’ But he’s not Pol-Pot or Stalin. So apologies to those who do like him.

Crabgrass’s point is fair about Dylan’s voice, but then again he wrote ‘Visions of Johanna,’ and Dylan played with The Band (I think of it that way round, of course rather than ‘The Band played with Dylan.’). Pete Seeger wrote ‘Little Boxes.’

On Robbie, from what people have said, the USA didn’t get the full uninterrupted broadcast. Canada and Europe did, and there’s much more acclaim as a result. I’ve watched it several times with unabated pleasure. As Sam says, it was just fantastic to see him up there playing.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 17:30:57 CET 2002 from 3cust28.tnt30.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.193.79.28)

Crabgrass

Surely, Dylan is a hero to the great majority of present day singer-songwriters and "folksingers" both well known and unknown - yet most of them would probably be of the opinion that Bob can't sing.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 17:06:12 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

Ed Blayzor

Peter V: while you have your right to your opinion of Pete Seeger, I have seen Pete play many times and recently got to play with him myself(at a Clearwater benefit),he can still captivate a room.While his voice is not in the best shape anymore you hardly notice.Yes he has some silly & goofy tunes he performs but has written some of most socially conscience & important songs,that no doubt had its influence on a young Bob Dylan. Rick Danko used to say"we`re here to help the neighborhood" - well i`m glad Pete Seeger is a member of my neighborhood because he is still active in a lot local organizations.Appleseed recordings have 2 very good Pete Seeger tribute cd`s out and are working on a third,vol.2 has a DFA cover (Andersen & Fjeld using Rick`s guitar) of Snow,Snow.Appleseed is also about to release DFA-One More Shot cd here in the states.Above is a link to Appleseeds site alot great artists are on this label including John Stewart.Lastly I hope to see some GB people at the Gurus show tonight.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 16:46:58 CET 2002 from spider-wg054.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.44)

Bayou Sam

Hey Ben - when you come to the guestbook, does it bum you out if you can't find a post that affords you the opportunity to hammer someone or rub their opinion in shit? Just curious. Have a great day.

As a Band, and Robbie fan - it was just plain NICE to see him there with the strat around his neck, and singing for the world at the opening ceremonies. Without analyzing it to death - wasn't it just plain COOL to see Robbie playing? Sure, it would have been nice to see more of him on camera, but it wasn't a RR show, so it was understandable.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 16:23:15 CET 2002 from du35-3.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.3.35)

Ilkka

Peter Viney, what would be your first words if you'd wake up between Pete Seeger and Joan Baez? Just curious.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 16:22:53 CET 2002 from sdn-ap-002castocp1167.dialsprint.net (63.187.12.151)

Jeffrey

"....Pete Seeger- we had this talk once before. I’m intrigued by the idea that I have an “anti-folkie” hand, but if a superior, boring and sanctimonious prat with a banjo is folk, then sign me up for the anti-folkie league.....". I mean ,Jesus, Peter! That's someones child you're talking about!

Posted on Sat Feb 16 15:33:02 CET 2002 from cache-mtc-al05.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.234)

Rick S.

Good morning Woodstock, Dutchess Co. and Connecticut communities. Come out tonight to the Towne Crier, Pawling at 9 PM and support the local heroes, Jim Weider and the Honky Tonk Gurus. They've been gearing up for this concert and had a helluva warmup in Teaneck last night. Scheduled to sit in tonight- Sid McGuinness. Rumor legendary Tom Izzo may set down his Michigan St. whistle and replace it with the harp for some numbers.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 14:20:45 CET 2002 from du-tele3-120.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.120)

Peter Viney

Pete Seeger- we had this talk once before. I’m intrigued by the idea that I have an “anti-folkie” hand, but if a superior, boring and sanctimonious prat with a banjo is folk, then sign me up for the anti-folkie league. I was perplexed that Crosby – who really can sing - chose a man who can’t sing as a hero. I think I like folk – if that’s early and late Dylan, Bert Jansch, Fairport Convention, Eliza Carthy, the Chieftains, and The Clancy Brothers. I can even see virtues in Peter, Paul & Hairy (and do own their “Best of …”). But if ‘folk’ is actually Pete Seeger then maybe you’re right and I don’t. Was it Robbie or Levon who said that The Hawks never rated strummers? Surely he was in their minds. I always felt that the ticky-tackiest most supercilious performance I ever saw was Pete Seeger on Sunday Night at The London Palladium singing ‘Little Boxes’ and ‘What did you learn in school today?’. So, what if you’d dreamed and struggled to buy your little box made of ticky-tacky? Who was this priviliged fake crapping on your dream? Did this man in his fake workingman’s shirt have ANY sense of irony? Or ANY sense of humour? Woody Guthrie was the real thing, but this guy probably spent an hour a night ironing his collar so it didn’t lie flat, and carefully picking the stitching out to simulate wear and tear. We debated the Dylan at Newport reports once before, and I still see the image of Pete Seeger, tears streaming down his face, attempting to cut the cables on the electric Dylan with an axe as a perfect representation of the myth. Whether it’s actually 100% true or not doesn’t matter. It SOUNDS as if it should be true and encapsulates Pete Seeger for me. Ben, your entry sounds to me as if you would have booed Dylan at the Manchester Free trade Hall! Bring back Freewheelin’! Get rid of the band! Judas!

And back to last week, wasn’t Robbie (like Eliza Carthy) bringing an electric vision and technical know-how to a genuine folk music? OK, the dancers’ costumes were pure Disney, but these were real people, and watching the Native American lady wailing along with him was exciting. Someone said before that only high-profile Native Americans were on the stage. But what would you expect at such an event? “Low-profile Native Americans”, or someone famous who could mix Native American themes into a 21st century arrangment with wide popular appeal? I realize more and more that Robbie has fans to whom The Band is unknown, or a piece of background information. A couple of years back I was talking to a group of people in their 20s who were Robbie fans but had hardly heard of The Band. He does have his own music now.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 14:15:39 CET 2002 from pad-cache2-1.cache.telstra.net (165.228.129.12)

Bill

Two things, the first short, the second long. Short: are there still any Australians here in GuestbookWorld?

Long: I'm sorry if someone mentioned this already, but I just stumbled, by doing a Google search on "Sandy Konikoff" (amazing!) and found the following Levon-related paragraphs from Roger Tillison's bio at rogertillison.com:

"Roger eventually moved to the Villa Carlotta in LA where he participated in bathroom jam sessions with his friends and neighbors - including Rolling Stones tenor saxman Bobby Keys and Levon Helm (drummer for the Hawks-soon to become The Band). Those three, along with Davis and bassist Gordon Shryock nearly didn't return from their one and only formal gig. In a rough neighborhood in Watts only one year after the riots. Roger and Jesse Ed soon returned to Lawton, where they had a standing gig as a folk rock duo at the Gallerie for eight months or so.

"Through his association with Levon Helm, Roger moved to Woodstock, NY, for a time, playing at the Sled Hill CafÈ and hanging out with the other members of The Band – Rick Danko, Richard Manuel and Garth Hudson. During this period, Roger also played with other various musicians, including Paul Butterfield and Rod Hicks, and at benefits for the Hudson River Cleanup Project with Odetta and Pete Seeger.

"In December, 1971 Jesse Ed Davis called Roger back out to LA to record Roger Tillison's Album for Atlantic Records. Also featured on the album were Stan Szelest , Sandy Konikoff, Larry Knechtel, Billy Rich, Don Preston, Joey Cooper, and Jim Keltner. After declining to tour without his band, Roger went back to Lawton."

Posted on Sat Feb 16 14:06:46 CET 2002 from a59107.upc-a.chello.nl (62.163.59.107)

Martin Alberts

You will fins an album of Jonas and Don Everly on my Everly Brothers Curiosities site. Have fun........

Posted on Sat Feb 16 13:04:31 CET 2002 from (200.201.133.140)

Carlos Barros

I really apreciated The Band's site. I got a lot of lyrics about my favorite songs. I would like to thanks to all the people that contributed for its creation.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 12:08:04 CET 2002 from stargate-46-185.salzburg-online.at (213.153.46.185)

Luke W.

Amanda, thank you very much for your comments on "Sweet Dreams..." If I get it as a birthday present, I will also post a few comments about it.

Maybe a stupid question, but... Is the Band fanzine "Jawbone" still being published? If so, is it possible to contact the editor online?

Luke

Posted on Sat Feb 16 10:30:47 CET 2002 from (64.80.240.7)

Diamond Lil

Geez... big time insomnia tonight (this morning?) I'm _still_ up around the time I'd normally be _getting_ up. Very strange.

Had a very nice chat with some nice folks for a few hours. Very rarely am I in the chatroom during the night.. and it was a pleasure to find some fun people there. One of the big conversations was of the show at the Bottom Line in NYC on the 22nd. Can't wait to go. Should be a great time. Band tunes.. and a horn section as well. Anyone else going?

And now.. a pot of coffee later.. I'm going to try and sleep awhile. Yeah right :-) Have a good morning everyone. Hug Jan :-)

Posted on Sat Feb 16 05:51:33 CET 2002 from 2cust13.tnt38.nyc3.da.uu.net (67.194.247.13)

Crabgrass

Even as an atheist I have to admit that Pete Seeger's environmental song "God Bless The Grass" has been one of my favorites ever since I first heard it. Pete has grown old with grace and dignity never losing sight of what really matters on this little planet.

The prospect of a TV movie about The Band thoroughly intrigues me. I still pick Justin Timberlake to play Bob Dylan and, of course, Britney Spears would make a great Sara when the Woodstock / Basement Tapes segment is shot.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 04:27:56 CET 2002 from cache-mtc-al05.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.234)

Brien Sz

Don't look now Ben but I think your Left is turning into a Right

Posted on Sat Feb 16 03:58:27 CET 2002 from spider-wa054.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.44)

Ben Pike

Whooaa, that "Last Waltz" sounds mighty interesting, hope the mix is good and the price is low. Once again, Peter Viney tips his anti-folkie hand, if someone took the ideals of "Freewheelin" and "The Times They Are a Changin", and walked the walk, rather than opting for a fashionable existentail hipper than thou rock critics wet dream, that would be Pete Seeger. I've had a lot to gripe about with the far left of late; but I'll still take them over that discusting "Triumph Of The Will Meets Walt Disney" shlock Robbie Robertson partisipated in the other night.

One might also forget Seeger's influence on the Byrds, not just "Turn Turn Turn" but "I Come And Stand At Every Door." Kind of a downer, but maybe the "Silly Love Songs" fans can check out the bass lines.

Posted on Sat Feb 16 02:56:11 CET 2002 from cache-mtc-al05.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.234)

Bayou Sam

Chester = I know what you mean about what the kids are learning. Actually, what they see in most of sports is sad. People not honoring contracts - going for the money only - biting peoples ears off. Just today, they found a dead guy with a gunshot in his cheat, at the home of a big-name basketball player (Jason Williams I think). Also, yes-Neil Young does have a way of capturing the feeling of something like Sept 11th. He also nailed it three decades ago with "Ohio". I remember a great story told my David Crosby, where the C.S.N.Y. song "Our House" was climbing the charts - and the Kent State shooting happened. Neil was so affected by it that he penned the great tune "Ohio" and they recorded it. Then with with Grahm Nash's blessing (Our House was his tune), they released it and it blew past "House" on the charts. I just remember Crosy noting how cool it was for Nash to not complain, because he felt strongly about "Ohio". Not too many musicians like that on the charts these days it seems.

Jennt T = nice vinyl haul you made. I got the same thing when CD's came along. People would give me their records - and turntables. To them, it was just an old format that they weren't going to play anymore. I happily relieved them of their cumbersome records, and I ended up with about half a doizen turntables. I still enjoy spinning a record sometimes.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 23:32:24 CET 2002 from du-tele3-022.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.22)

Peter Viney

Musing on celebrity here. Nothing to do with The Band, so scroll on. I’ve just sat through probably the worst-written play I’ve seen in 10 years (Ira Levin’s ‘Deathtrap’) – and I see about 25 plays a year. Sad to watch David Soul in such an awful part. He didn’t shine, but it was hard to see how anyone might have. The only fun moment was a genuine Starsky & Hutch smile in the muted curtain call – and the celebrity of that 70s classic brought some bizarre characters out of the woodwork to watch. The last time I was so disappointed in a performance was another of my screen favourites, Gene Wilder, who was appallingly, stunningly bad in ‘The Front Page’ in London a few years ago. Guess screen actors should stick to the screen at the end of the day. But neither had chosen good plays by any standard. Why do they perform in such crap? It’s like The Band covering Chirpy, Chirpy Cheep Cheep.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 23:15:53 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

I can't help but comment on the figure skating debate, not that I actually care but I just cant help but wonder what were teaching our kids, I for one taught mine that life isn't fair and sometimes your going to get skrewed and their isn't shit your going to be able to do about it, I don't know I guess I'm old school, to me a far better protest by the norskis would have been to refuse the silver, that to me says more than complaining until if I heard this right the norskis will get the gold but the russians still get to keep theres, did I miss something here, how is this a victory for Canada? Gold is for the best, the message that Im getting is that its no better than a tie, hardly what Canada has been arguing all week, to me they caved, thats why that night at the medal ceramonie they should have declined the Silver.....

Posted on Fri Feb 15 22:11:50 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Somehow I can't help but think of that old saying about what a wild bear does in the woods. And it doesn't have anything to do with making music.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 20:29:03 CET 2002 from a010-0035.blgs.splitrock.net (209.254.61.35)

Jack Straw

JUSTICE FOR THE CANADIANS! A rare thing in these modern times.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 20:07:24 CET 2002 from bob22.revealed.net (208.16.227.25)

Mike

This country bears thing...I'll play along :) If Ted = Robbie and Fred = Levon, then does that mean Zeb = Rick? After all, it says Zeb plays fiddle. Well, Rick played it on Rag Mama Rag. And does Tennesee = Garth? Ok, I know it's fiction. But where would Richard be? I mean, the manager of The Country Bears, that's Albert Grossman. Ok, I'm just toying with the notion. I forget who posted it but it'd be too painful to see a biopic of The Band. I think the music more than speaks fo itself. Enough from me, for now.

Mike

Posted on Fri Feb 15 19:36:28 CET 2002 from (216.5.93.39)

Jenny T

Speaking of a movie loosely based on the Band, the other day I was wondering what if VH1 made a movie that was TIGHTLY based on the Band, as in a (probably unauthorized) bio? Would it be too painful to watch? I have wasted an embarrassing amount of time watching that sort of thing and find that when I actually care about the band or artist it IS actually painful to suffer through their trials and tribulations. Even the one on the Monkees killed me, and it was pretty bad.

And if such a movie were made, who could the actors be?

Posted on Fri Feb 15 19:21:27 CET 2002 from (216.5.93.39)

Jenny T

I just want to share my good fortune--my best friend Patty had me over today to go through her vinyl collection which she never plays anymore, not having a working turntable. Now Patty and I have known each other for 10 years yet for some reason we never talk about music, and I had no idea what she would have. Here are just some of the treasures I got for free today:

Santana

In My Own Dream, Put It in Your Ear, Golden Butter (Butterfield Blues Band)

One Way Out (Sonny Boy Williamson)

Bad Luck and Troubles (Memphis Slim)

Taking Care of Business (James Cotton Blues Band)

Woodstock

Anniversary Special (The Earl Scruggs Revue)

Hootin' and Hollerin' (Brownie McGhee and Sonny Terry)

Papa John Creach and Zulu

Natural Boogie (Hound Dog Taylor and the HouseRockers)

Plus some Earth Wind & Fire, Rufus, AWB and Stevie Wonder, as well as two Leo Kottke albums which my husband will love, a live Lynyrd Skynyrd with Free Bird (which was my prom theme, though the band Sunshine Balloon unfortunately didn't know it and never played it the whole evening) and Duane Allman, an anthology which includes Aretha's cover of The Weight.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 19:12:05 CET 2002 from du-tele3-113.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.113)

Peter Viney

I think this Country Bears album will open a feud between the Teddites and Fredonistas. I can see it all being played out here. Ted was great at salt Lake City last week …

Posted on Fri Feb 15 17:23:00 CET 2002 from spider-wo052.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.42)

franko

You know what happens when you have too much honey.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 16:48:16 CET 2002 from a010-0021.blgs.splitrock.net (209.254.61.21)

Jack Straw

For those who prefer the copy and paste option for posting, I find it easier to use an e-mail editor for composing and spelling. It is less cumbersome than MS Word and mine is usually running.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 16:40:49 CET 2002 from dhcp215127.sunyocc.edu (198.242.215.127)

FUNK! freddy funk

PATTY WALSH Hey? Would you be the same Patty Walsh who has a brother involved in the politics "game"?

Posted on Fri Feb 15 15:15:41 CET 2002 from citrix2.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.7)

John Cass

Just wanted to let the GBers know that tickets for the Jim Weider & Honky Tonk Gurus are on sale now for Saturday March 2 at Jilly's in Rutland VT. Tickets are only $5.00 and Jilly's is a great place to see a show.. The number to call is 802-775-6919. Rutland is very close to Killington and Pico ski area.. so come to VT listen to a great show and do some skiing. The Amtrack drops you off a block from Jilly's if you choose to take the train. Hope to see some GBers there.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 15:14:49 CET 2002 from dv132s69.lawrence.ks.us (24.124.69.132)

Dexy

Sorry, more Furry Bears news. The above link takes you to a news release that really lays it out. The Brown Furry Album, fans including The Beatles and Clapton, a "country rock" band that broke up in the '70s due to personal discord gets brought back together for one big charity concert.... Wow. That's pretty weird. Can't Levon and Garth do a cameo??? (funny feeling someone else has that bagged)

Posted on Fri Feb 15 15:11:50 CET 2002 from dv132s69.lawrence.ks.us (24.124.69.132)

Dexy

Had to get more information on the Hiatt / Disney movie "based loosely on The Band." The above link takes you to a Disney site about the film.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 15:04:44 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Good thought Peter. Mine is still doing it....so it must be some bizarre setting in my browser that has happened. I hate it when you go along for years and everything's fine and then this happens and you say "What did I do differently" Might have something to do with my Firewall protection.......anti virus stuff.....who knows?

Posted on Fri Feb 15 14:21:54 CET 2002 from cache-mtc-al05.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.234)

Donna

Thank you Jan for posting the pics of Robbie at The Winter Olympics! He looked and sounded great!!! Bob Costa, however, a bit annoying, did give a nice plug to Robbie! It would of been much more enjoyable if the camera man, would of kept the camera on Robbie a little more and less on the skater's.

I'm getting ready now to go see Jim Weider & The Gurus, tonight in New Jersey! They are an awesome band and always worth the trip to hear them play! They will be singing some of their new tunes off their Cd, "Remedy." When this Cd is released, take my advise and buy it! Their songs "Blues Condition" and "Hidden in Plain Sight" are among my favorites! Trust me, go out and see a Gurus show and purchase their soon to be released Cd! I hope to see some GB'ers at the show tonight!

Wishing Everyone a Great Weekend!

Posted on Fri Feb 15 10:30:30 CET 2002 from du-tele3-129.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.129)

Peter Viney

John D- easiest way is not to compose in the Guestbook "entry box" but to compose on a different WP document - but it's hardly worth it for short posts (and I'm not doing it now). The loss of data after hitting "Back" has happened to me once or twice in the past, but not consistently - and not today, I just tried it a few times.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 07:48:11 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

Ed Blayzor

John Hiatt said he recently composed the music for an upcoming Disney cartoon "The Country Bears" whch he describes the story as "loosely" based on The Band. Bonnie Raitt, Eric Clapton,& Don Henley will be singing and doing the voices of a few of the "Bears".

Posted on Fri Feb 15 06:37:49 CET 2002 from c5300-1-ip55.albany.thebiz.net (216.238.224.55)

"Red"

Great site. Will visit many times over...

Posted on Fri Feb 15 06:33:06 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

Bayou-- Ine heard Youngs "lets Roll" and its a great song, the man has a way of writting the right song for the times and he still rocks out with the best of them. I'm looking forward to hearing his latest as well

Posted on Fri Feb 15 04:08:59 CET 2002 from sdn-ap-002castocp1179.dialsprint.net (63.187.12.163)

to john donabie

Hey john , I have also had problems on occasion with this guestbook,exactly as you have described. I suspect certain members of the community take that as a blessing! Nonetheless, I will persevere with my unique form of propaganda, occasionally mixed with doses of truth(and justice!) Semper Farcissimuss!

Posted on Fri Feb 15 03:29:14 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

j ~t

Looking for the soundtrack album to a film released in 91 called "Ballad Of The Sad Cafe". Can anyone suggest a place on the net where maybe I could get my hands on it...checked everywhere I know. Thanks.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 03:19:52 CET 2002 from host150.wpsic.com (208.255.5.150)

absinthe_is_esoteric

Im just bummed that Waylon Jennings died. A true American hero/role model didnt even make the front page.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 02:17:45 CET 2002 from proxy2o.dpn.deere.com (192.43.65.245)

Mike

John D. Thanks for TLW songlist. Like Pat, my only gripe is the omission of Georgia On My Mind. Ok. so I am greedy too :) The omission of King Harvest and The Last Waltz/Evangeline from the concert are ok by me. I was never crazy about either of them. I'll stick with King Harvest from Rock Of Ages. Still, it's a lot to be excited about. And if your list doesn't change, then it's darn near the entire show! And that's a plus. Oh well, I can still wait I suppose.

Mike

Posted on Fri Feb 15 02:17:09 CET 2002 from 64-80-55-144-access.surferz.net (64.80.55.144)

Diamond Lil

John D: Not sure what the problem with previewing posts is, but I've had the same problem many times and it always seems to correct itself in a day or so. Until then, know that some of your posts are keeping some of mine company somewhere in the Bermuda triangle of Jan land.

Have a good night everyone.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 01:42:36 CET 2002 from spider-to034.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.59)

Bayou Sam

Dave Hopkins = looks like a great song by Neil. I'm also glad that "Let's Roll" will be on this new album. Have you all gotten to hear that song? This looks like a good up-coming album by Mr. Young.

Posted on Fri Feb 15 00:24:13 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Any computer geeks out there? I mentioned this on the site and to Jan and he figures it's a problem in my browser somewhere. As of yesterday when I preview a posting and try to go back a screen to edit my comments, there is nothing there. I've gone to other sites that have to remember the previous page and I have no problem. Any thoughts on why all my original information disappears so I can't edit my post before submitting. Just started yesterday. Thanks to all the computer geeks that may be able to help me.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 23:32:08 CET 2002 from w12.igs.berkeley.edu (128.32.52.72)

Dave Hopkins

Neil Young is playing a new song called "Two Old Friends" on the current CSNY tour which is also scheduled to appear on his upcoming album "Are You Passionate?" (due March 26). I thought I'd take the liberty of reprinting the lyrics below (courtesy of hyperrust.org) for reasons which will become obvious when you read them:

Preacher went up to the Golden Gate,
And met God there,
With the glow of love in his flowing hair.

I'm dreamin' of a time when love and music,
Is everywhere.
Can you see that time comin'?

No my son that time has gone,
There's things to do.
The world has changed since I first met you.

Back when The Band played Rock of Ages,
In their prime,
And the old juke joint was rockin'...

Oh Lord there's so much hate,
In a world where we're from another place.
Show me how to live like you.
See no evil, hear no evil,
Feel no evil in my heart.

In my heart, in my aching heart.
In my heart, in my heart,
In my old black heart.
In my heart, in my heart,
In my beating heart.

Sky had turned a lotta shades of gray,
As they walked on,
And a gentle rain fell down on them.

They found faith in the way things are and,
The way things change,
And they said goodbye like two old friends.

Take me up to the mountains high,
Or a building top where the spirits fly.
Show me how to be like you.
See no evil, hear no evil,
Feel no evil in my heart.

In my heart, in my aching heart.
In my heart, in my heart,
In my old black heart.
In my heart, in my heart,
In my beating heart.

Oh Lord there's so much hate,
In a world where we're from another place.
Show me how to live like you.
See no evil, hear no evil,
Feel no evil in my heart.

In my heart, in my aching heart.
In my heart, in my heart,
In my old black heart.
In my heart, in my heart,
In my beating heart.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 23:18:33 CET 2002 from du-tele3-156.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.156)

Peter Viney

Mojo has 100 rock stars choose their all-time heroes this month. Only Travis chose The Band:

Neil Primrose: One of the people I could single out is Levon Helm of the Band, just a great drummer and a great singer. And I think the simplicity of The Band has been a major influence on Travis. Robbie Robertson just looks so suave and cool.”

Other interesting choices: Paul McCartney picked John Lennon; Bo Diddley picked himself- The Clash picked him too, Alice Cooper chooses Frank Zappa (who he recalls blowing Jimi Hendrix off the stage), BrianWilson chose Phil Spector, Emmylou Harris chose Neil Young, Mick Jagger chose Chuck Berry, Keith Richard chose Muddy, David Crosby- really perplexingly to me- chose Pete Seeger. Hendrix, Elvis, Dylan and James Brown all get multiple votes.

Thanks John D for TLW listing - so the rehearsals story is confirmed. Great! (More Van!)

Posted on Thu Feb 14 22:13:10 CET 2002 from 24-196-236-100.charter-georgia.com (24.196.236.100)

Don Pugatch

Great news has just flashed accross my screen, Mr. Mark Knopfler and his band have been in Nashville for the past weeks working on his 3rd solo(how can you be solo with a band) album. Supposed to come out in the Fall , with a tour in the Spring of 2003 to follow up the album. Best place for info is from Guy Fletcher web site. Only negative is that the DVD of The Sailing to Philadelphia tour has been put off till after the album is finished.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 21:31:08 CET 2002 from (209.166.233.21)

Jon Lyness

Thanks, John Donabie...what a track listing! Fantastic!

Posted on Thu Feb 14 17:53:21 CET 2002 from tres01.ashe.miami.edu (129.171.41.240)

otoole

Being a huge fan of the Basement Tapes I was shocked when I saw an MPEG of Beautiful Thing under Richard Manuel's name in the audio files recorded in 1967?!? For all my computer's high falutin' capabilities I can't seem to download the file. Is this truly a basement tape? If so why isn't it on the Genuine BT's, and does anyone know where I can find it?

I enjoy Eric Clapton's version but I always thought it could lose the female back ups on the chorus. I'd love to hear a more 'raw' straight band version-especially basement tapes style.

By the way I picked up a used copy of the Across the Great Divide box set yesterday for a measly $23 -in perfect condition. I loved the liner notes. Despite being a bit skimpy on rarities and unreleased stuff I'm very happy with it. The track listing seems a bit random at times..but ah well - hopefully they'll do better with the next one Robbie's been mentioning. Maybe they'll even put some Band versions of 'Little Birds' or "Davy's on the Road Again" "Snow" or anything else they've got we don't. Though always good...it feels like a great time to be a Band fan.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 17:31:20 CET 2002 from (12.33.126.141)

John W.

Anyone from New York City area interested in seeing the Gurus in Teaneck tomorrow night? I have a car but my license is suspended, so if you have a license you can drive. Or if you are driving, maybe I could hitch a ride? Please advise.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 17:07:25 CET 2002 from ares.tdsb.on.ca (207.35.188.13)

brown eyed girl

I've lived with Guyanese and Jamaican people and I have visited Jamaica a few times....My love of Reggae in particular and Patois is evident...as well as a lot of my students come from Caribbean countries so the lingo is evident......Here is an example of a poem in Jamaican Patois for my Students and all the Reggae lovers out there.....

BYE NOW

Walk good
Walk good
Noh mek macca go juk yu
Or cow go buk yu.
Noh mek dog bite yu
Or hungry go ketch yu, yah!

Noh mek sunhot turn yu dry.
Noh mek rain soak yu.
Noh mek tief tief yu.
Or stone go buck yu foot, yah!
Walk good
Walk good

Posted on Thu Feb 14 16:57:36 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

The shock of the news of Waylon's death is still sinking in. The big hoss has gone across the great divide. His music has always meant a lot to me ever since I first heard that wonderful voice on the radio, as a kid living in a country town in north Georgia. That man could flat out sing anything he set his mind to.

As a teenager, I used to drive most of my firends crazy when I switched to the country station on the car radio. Country music, it seems, wasn't "cool" enough for them back then. But, whenever they heard a Waylon song, they'd inveterately ask -- "who's that guy, he sure can sing?" I'd just say, "that's Waylon Goddamn Jennings".

You'll probably read many fine tributes about the man. Perhaps his own words told his life story best, when he sang:

"Lord, it's the same old tune -- fiddle and guitar. Where do we take it from here? Rhinestone suits and new shiny cars, it's been the same way for years. We need a change."

"Somebody told me, when I came to Nashville, 'Son, you finally got it made. Old Hank made it here and we're all sure that you will, but I don't think Hank done it this-a way. Nah, I don't think Hank done it this-a way' "

"Ten years on the road, making one night stands, speedin' my young life away. Tell me one more time, just so's I'll understand. Are you sure Hank done it this-a way? Did old Hank really do it this-a way?"

"Lord, I've seen the world with a five piece band, lookin' at the backside of me. Singing my songs, one of his now and then, but I don't think Hank done 'em this-a way. Nah, I don't think Hank done 'em this-a way."

Waylon sang the songs his way, and he could sing them like no one else. I don't care who's in whatever Hall of Fame thing -- Waylon Jennings is still The King.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 15:42:39 CET 2002 from (216.5.93.53)

Jenny T

I know this accent and speech talk isn't Band related but I'm going to bring it around you'll see. Like Matt K I think it is very sad to lose regional expressions and accents, and find them so interesting, especially the more colorful expressions. Unfortunately my own accent is now so goofed up that it prompts people to ask "Just WHERE are you from?" I started off with a Southern California thing from 18 years in Eagle Rock, LA, then went to college in Chicago with lots of New Yorkers and Midwesterners, then spent six years working in Boston where I picked up some strange sounds and wicked good expressions--like "skeevy" which comes from an Italian root and means disgusting, as in "what a skeevy guy." And now 11 years in Cincinnati has given me an odd little twang on top of it all, though I can't get used to the formation "the floor needs swept," "the house needs cleaned," etc. which you hear all the time here.

Anyway, in listening to Rick Danko's (and maybe also Richard and Robbie's speech I'm not sure) there is a funny way of pronouncing the letter T which I think is a Great Lakes thing--it is almost a th sound but not quite. I know people from Buffalo that also pronounce it that way. Levon certainly uses a lot of colorful expressions. My favorite expression is "hotter than a hootowl" which a friend from Missouri uses and which makes little sense.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 13:45:11 CET 2002 from (205.211.160.1)

Jerry Tenenbaum

I saw CSNY last evening. Superb 3 hour + show. NY at his absolute best. Harmonies superb. Stills in remarkable voice did a blues number with Booker T and the others which was a standout. Eight Miles High for the encore. A searing Rockin' In the Free World and an exuberant Woodstock. Wooden Ships, Carry On, Long Time Gone... Old Man, Southern Man and of course Almost Cut My Hair (David Crosby as vital as ever. And Graham Nash the anchor for this still vital foursome. If they are coming through your area, my advice is not to miss this. Its well worth it. They were having fun and it showed. I've never seen Neil so relaxed. The most amazing thing to me is the acoustics in the Air Canada (hockey) Centre. Maple Leaf Gardens was never like this. I thought the Dylan concert sound was a fluke. This is a great large venue for music. Congratulations whoever put that place together soundwise.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 11:50:21 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

Always liked Waylon, close friends of mine saw him and Willie at a casino here locally last fall and could tell he was feeling poorly then, but never the less went out and put on a good show, but it was apparent to my friends then that he was in a bad way

Posted on Thu Feb 14 06:58:36 CET 2002 from netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.222.32)

j ~t

I always enjoyed the Civil War album produced by Paul Kennerly. Waylon Jennings done some good guitar work on that record.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 06:23:51 CET 2002 from hse-mtl-ppp70717.qc.sympatico.ca (64.229.194.50)

brown eyed girl

I tried to reach you
On VALENTINE'S DAY
But how can I reach you
When you're soooooooo far away?
..................
I bring you this cross
I carved out of wood
I'm just trying to tell you
That I'd change if I could
...........
Robbie Robertson....Breakin The Rules....1991....Storyville

Posted on Thu Feb 14 06:07:29 CET 2002 from dialup-63.208.70.159.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.70.159)

Pat Brennan

Many thanks to John Donabie for posting the LW disc lists. All I can ask (and it's greedy, I know) is where's Georgia? I don't care that the first line is missing.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 05:41:46 CET 2002 from spider-mtc-tg012.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.152)

Dave Z

Ah Man, Waylon has passed on... I always loved that green album he did with Willie... btw it was my Mom's album too not mine...

I hope none of you all got that bad stomach flu going around... I just got over it... One minute your perfectly fine... and just an hour later the hard cold floor in front of the toliet feels like your best friend... I lost 10 lbs in 1 day... Had to take my baby girl to ER... she got ear infections from all the purging... I'm all better now, the others not far behind... We think maybe it had something to do with an Olympic ice skating event... Ah, it's soooo easy to joke after you've come back... Well, I've missed two days of school and work... not to mention all the lively discussion herein... so I think I'll go read some Harry Potter 4... with Sea in the background... Keep going for Gold... Levon, Garth and the Robster... We luv ya all...

P.S. - Shouldn't the Guru CD be coming out soon? I'm looking forward to that first off...

Posted on Thu Feb 14 05:26:02 CET 2002 from spider-tk021.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.181)

Calvin

I'm sure many of you are aware of this but there is a multi volume dictionary that just covers american words that arent universal, one of my Profs in Grad School was heavily involved in it, and it is quite fascinating reading. You'll find references such as Devil's Strip-The area of grass between the sidewalk and the road-Northern Summit County, Ohio. It's a lot of fun. Band related notes, I purchased today a CD of a Byrds concert from 1969, I didn't notice till I got home they do a Version of This Wheel's on Fire-can't wait to hear it-it is the GR Parsons/McGuin version of the group. When I heard Jennings had past away I tuned into a few country stations hoping to hear some of his tunes, perhaps some Highwaymen, but alas not much more than a mention. Is it me or when "country" music became pop with fiddles and Steel Guitars, (Ala Faith Hill, Garth Brooks, Shania Twain) a whole lot was lost in the transition? Give Waylon, Willie and the Boys any day to some of the stuff that passes for country today. You'd think with the popularity of the soundtrack to Oh Brother Where Art Thou the programmers for "country" stations would realize there is an audience for roots country, but alas, no.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 03:00:04 CET 2002 from ppp57.ac1.56k.execulink.com (209.239.5.57)

Paul Godfrey

Oh my. Waylon is gone. As a young dj in Chatham Ontario in 1967 I got to Cobo Hall for one big time country show. Tammy Wynette sang, Harland Howard was in the audience and to my surprise and everlasting gratitude the Outlaw himself shook my hand backstage and sat for in interview for a good 15 minutes.

He was humble and appreciated all of the good things that had come his way and still took the time to talk with his fans...even a lowly dj.

I feel much older tonight. God speed to that mansion in the sky.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:59:16 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Wow I had no idea it was going back into theaters. Thanks for the info Amanda. I've always thought it was a beautiful name since I had a boyhood crush on Amanda Blake who played "Miss Kitty" on Gunsmoke. My wife's name is Amelia. Just a couple of "Big A's"

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:55:31 CET 2002 from dial2a-66.i2eyenet.com (64.80.2.66)

Hi

John, TLW is being screened in big cities around the country including NYC in the same theater I saw it (the Ziegfield) when it was originally released. I forgot its name and even forgot its ornate architecture until I read about its rerelease.....also thanks for the info. about where to pick up Bunky and Jake (Amazon)...

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:55:09 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Now that the info is getting out......this is the way it looks at this stage

Disc 1
1. THEME FROM THE LAST WALTZ - with Orchestra
The Concert
2. UP ON CRIPPLE CREEK
3. THE SHAPE I’M IN
4. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE
5. WHO DO YOU LOVE – with Ronnie Hawkins
6. LIFE IS A CARNIVAL
7. SUCH A NIGHT - with Dr. John
8. THE WEIGHT
9. DOWN SOUTH IN NEW ORLEANS - with Bobby Charles
10. THIS WHEEL’S ON FIRE
11. MYSTERY TRAIN – with Paul Butterfield
12. CALEDONIA - with Muddy Waters
13. MANNISH BOY – with Muddy Waters
14. STAGE FRIGHT

Disc 2
1. RAG MAMA RAG
2 ALL OUR PAST TIMES - with Eric Clapton
3. FURTHER ON UP THE ROAD - with Eric Clapton
4. OPHELIA
5. HELPLESS - with Neil Young
6. FOUR STRONG WINDS - with Neil Young
7. COYOTE - with Joni Mitchell
8. SHADOWS AND LIGHT - with Joni Mitchell
9. FURRY SINGS THE BLUES - with Joni Mitchell
10. ACADIAN DRIFTWOOD
11. DRY YOUR EYES - with Neil Diamond
12. THE W.S. WALCOTT MEDICINE SHOW
13. TURA LURA LURA (THAT’S AN IRISH LULLABY) - with Van Morrison
14. CARAVAN - with Van Morrison

Disc 3
1. THE NIGHT THEY DROVE OLD DIXIE DOWN
2. THE GENETIC METHOD/CHEST FEVER (Excerpt from Movie Soundtrack)
3. BABY LET ME FOLLOW YOU DOWN - with Bob Dylan
4. HAZEL - with Bob Dylan
5. I DON’T BELIEVE YOU (SHE ACTS LIKE WE NEVER HAVE MET) - with Bob Dylan
6. FOREVER YOUNG - with Bob Dylan
7. BABY LET ME FOLLOW YOU DOWN (Reprise) - with Bob Dylan
8. I SHALL BE RELEASED (Finale)
9. JAM #1
10. JAM #2
11. DON’T DO IT
12. GREENSLEEVES (From Movie Soundtrack)

Disc 4

The Last Waltz Suite
1. THE WELL
2. EVANGELINE - with Emmylou Harris
3. OUT OF THE BLUE
4. THE WEIGHT - with The Staples
5. THE LAST WALTZ REFRAIN
6. THEME FROM THE LAST WALTZ

Concert Rehearsal
7. KING HARVEST (HAS SURELY COME)
8. TURA LURA LURA (THAT’S AN IRISH LULLABY) - with Van Morrison
9. CARAVAN - with Van Morrison
10. SUCH A NIGHT - with Dr. John
11. RAG MAMA RAG

Studio Ideas
12. MAD WALTZ (Sketch track for “The Well”)
13. THE LAST WALTZ REFRAIN (Instrumental Version)
14. THE LAST WALTZ THEME (Sketch Idea)

Dedicated to the memory of Rick Danko and Richard Manuel

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:55:04 CET 2002 from cache-mtc-al05.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.234)

Brien Sz

Quick Concert Update: My wife and I just got back from our Pre-Valentine dinner at a wonderful Rock/Blues club The Crossroads, where they serve GREAT Cajun food, and on the list to play: Jim Weider and the Honky Tonk Gurus, March 9th. It's a Saturday night - show starts between 9:30 and 10pm. The Crossroads is in Garwood, New Jersey, Exit 137 off the Garden State Parkway on Rt. 28, 908-232-5666. The place has a great bayou decor, Fantastic Food!!!!! We're Going (as of this writing)

Butch - - this would be a great venue for Levon and the BB's also!

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:51:20 CET 2002 from sc-hiltonhead2a-141.hhe.adelphia.net (24.49.232.141)

Amanda

John D: The Last Waltz is making it's theatrical debut April 12 in San Francisco then on to New York City, Los Angeles,Seattle, San Diego, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto, and Washington, D.C. You are lucky to have the opportunity to see it in Toronto. I only mentioned Memphis because I will be there around that time and because of Levon's popularity in that city and his involvement with the Handy Awards and Blues Aid. I feel like a screening would go over well in Memphis, but unfortunately they didn't choose any Southern cities. Thanks to you and Big Red for mentioning Waylon Jennings. Most gals love outlaws and he was one outlaw that changed country music. I'll never forget that he sang "Amanda" and made me feel special when I was a little girl...especially at that time when my name was unpopular and considered old-fashioned.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:45:13 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Anyone notice tonight that if you hit your back button to where the "Preview" is for editing......that your post has gone and it has reset itself?????????

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:22:56 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

AMANDA: I must have missed something. I knew all about the DVD and CD release of TLW; but nothing of the "big screen" debut. I didn't know it was going back into theaters and why Memphis? I'm afraid I've missed a few things here. Thanks Amanda. Always enjoy your posts.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:18:20 CET 2002 from cpe0080c6f0a856.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

God Bless Waylon. The respected journalist Chet Flippo said tonight he was the original outlaw. He was the first to record in Nashville using his own band and the first to start bucking the system. He received many awards including landing in the Hall of Fame last year and refused to go to any of them. After giving up his seat to The Big Bopper in 1959, Waylon went back to Texas as a DJ. It was, of all people, Herb Alpert who coaxed him out of retirement to record a folk album for A&M; which included "Don't Think Twice, It's Allright. Diabetes and other problems took him today. A true country legend. R.I.P. 1937-2002

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:17:56 CET 2002 from sc-hiltonhead2a-141.hhe.adelphia.net (24.49.232.141)

Amanda

Alan...does scouse mean drunk, smashed, looped ??? ;o)

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:16:12 CET 2002 from spider-wm012.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.152)

JTull Fan

MattK: just wanted to say I appreciated your post on accents and have to agree wholeheartedly from my experience. Even in VA there are so many accents from county to county even.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:15:31 CET 2002 from sc-hiltonhead2a-141.hhe.adelphia.net (24.49.232.141)

Amanda

I am glad someone finally recognized all the distinctive dialects of the Southern United States. That's right....we're not all related ;0)! Levon definitely has that Arkansas Delta twang and is lucky to have it in his possession after all the years he has lived in New York. I think I lost part of mine somewhere in Texas :o( . The Gullah dialect here in coastal South Carolina is one of the oldest and the most incredibly difficult to understand...yet so lovely to the ears. Oh...speakin' of Arkansas...I'll be in the foothills of the Ozarks in April for the film festival honoring Levon. The big screen debut of the re-mastered Last Waltz will occur right around that time...I wonder why they aren't bringing it to Memphis? Oh well...when I weigh the two events...a tribute to Levon means much more.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:00:52 CET 2002 from spider-tk071.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.206)

Bayou Sam

I blew Yoko's lyrics. It's "we're all water from different RIVERS...."

I'm sorry - I'm such a wanker. I should have my bum kicked.

If anyone dosen't know what I mean by "blew" Yoko's lyrics - e-mail me and I'll explain it to you, :-)

Posted on Thu Feb 14 02:00:51 CET 2002 from akcf3.xtra.co.nz (203.96.111.201)

Rod

Robbie promises us some unheard of stuff from TLW suite which sounds great to me. I always thought The Well in particular was under rated. Maybe not the best lyrics Robbie has written but certainly some great playing from Garth and Robbie. As for The Weight I musb prefer the TLW version to the original.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 01:56:30 CET 2002 from pool-151-204-118-16.ny325.east.verizon.net (151.204.118.16)

Big Red

Bad news from the land o' country: Waylon Jennings has gone to the great gig in the sky. He was 64. It sure was a good ride, pardner....

Posted on Thu Feb 14 01:53:02 CET 2002 from cache-udd.cableinet.co.uk (194.117.151.68)

Alan edge

Are you Scouse then Sam lad? :-]

Posted on Thu Feb 14 01:45:47 CET 2002 from spider-wl052.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.42)

Bayou Sam

"We're all water from different oceans, that's why it's so easy to meet. '

"We're all water in this vast, vast ocean, someday we'll evaporate together."......-YOKO ONO

Did I just quote Yoko? God help me.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 01:41:58 CET 2002 from spider-wl052.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.42)

Bayou Sam

Hey all dis tawk about da langwidge stuff is un-freakin' baleevabull. I dawt dis was abowt da muzic 'n all. Will yooz all cool it an jus relax or supmn? I meen, wearall heer in da same wirld ain't we. Even dat chick frum Japan powsted in heer. Dat wuz cool, rite? :-)

Posted on Thu Feb 14 01:07:43 CET 2002 from cache-udd.cableinet.co.uk (194.117.151.68)

Alan Edge

At the very least I certainly think we all need to get a grip.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 00:50:51 CET 2002 from cache-udd.cableinet.co.uk (194.117.151.68)

Alan Edge

I think it's about time us wankers pulled ourselves together :-)

Just a thought.

I'll get me coat.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 00:35:07 CET 2002 from syr-24-95-166-152.twcny.rr.com (24.95.166.152)

Patty Walsh

I cannot believe my eyes. The Fred Funk I know would never say such things.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 00:28:06 CET 2002 from cmldme-cmt1-2nd-24-31-154-219.maine.rr.com (24.31.155.219)

MattK

The language thread reminded me of a Band-related story.

When I was a kid, my parents took me to see "Coal Miner's Daughter" at an area theater. My father was raised in southwestern Virginia in the same Appalachian coal mining region at the same time as Loretta Lynn(they're about the same age). In fact, Lorreta grew up only a few miles over the Tennesee border from my dad's home in Lee County, VA. My dad's stories of growing up "farm poor" are reminiscent of what you see in the film, and he was impressed with how faithful the film was in depicting that way of life. Levon, he said, reminded him so much of his own father that it was eerie.

The only thing that really bothered him, though, was Levon's accent. While it was obvious to him the guy was Southern, dad was perturbed through the film that Levon "didn't talk right" for someone from that area. He didn't know exactly where he was from, but it was clear to my Dad that he wasn't from Appalachia, much less the Smokey Mountain coal towns that he knew well. For some reason, Tommy Lee Jones' Texas accent was less of a problem for him, probably because his character didn't seem so familiar.

Most Americans (much less folks outside the US) presume that anyone with a "drawl" is speaking with the same "Southern" accent. Outside of the South, very few can hear the difference between a Carolinian, a Georgian, and a Virginian, much less a Texan or Oklahoman. Below the Mason Dixon, the differences are anything but subtle.

Similairly, most people outside New England presume anyone dropping their "R"s gives them a New England accent. Truth be told, spend anytime here, and within a sentence you can tell if someone is from Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island or Massachusetts (Connecticut too, but many New Englanders have ceased to view CT as a New England state, and think it should be officially annexed as a suburb of NYC). These accents are tremendously distinct - Rhode Island accents are so obvious, your hair stands on end.

Mass. makes a great example of a place where the accents are even more distinct by area. Someone from South Boston sounds nothing like someone from the Cape, much less the Kennedy-esque accent most folks think of as "typically Boston." Central Mass. residents in Worcester (aka "Woostah") sound distinct from Western Mass. residents of Springfield.

Sadly, homogeny threatens these distinctions as people move and are less and less native to a single region or state (such as myself). The days of knowing which block in NYC someone grew up on from their accent is rapidly becoming a thing of the past.

Posted on Thu Feb 14 00:27:02 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

Nancy...... I took your thick american in the right context, just having fun also....believe me I didnt take it serious.....heck Im not serious when I should be, have a good one

Posted on Thu Feb 14 00:12:19 CET 2002 from i249-009.nv.iinet.net.au (203.59.249.9)

Nancy

Of course I don't find my American friends to be "thick"!! Far from it. Alan's posts reminded me of minor past confusions I've had when using colloquial terms, and I was looking at our differences with tongue firmly in cheek. A mild attempt at humour.................

Posted on Wed Feb 13 23:48:08 CET 2002 from dialup-64.158.84.50.dial1.buffalo1.level3.net (64.158.84.50)

G-Man

Friday 2/15,,Mexicali Blues, Teaneck, N.J.....9 pm,,,,,, Jim Weider, Randy Ciarlante and THE HONKY TONK GURUS!! Any language, any dialect,,,,,,gonna be some HEAVY RR/RB!! Hope to see a whole lot of GB'ers at the show!!!!

Posted on Wed Feb 13 23:29:47 CET 2002 from cmldme-cmt1-2nd-24-31-154-219.maine.rr.com (24.31.155.219)

MattK

Nancy's comments vis-a-vis arguing that somehow the colloquialisms of the Australian dialect is a more worthy variant on the mother tongue than American english is ridiculous. Peter or Alan can speak to this better, but my experience is that Aussie and American english are both considered somewhat crude in the birthplace of our shared anglo-saxon-norman language.

Bellicose, loud and obnoxious are stereotypes both Australians and Americans (specifically, the US out of respect to our Canadian friends) enjoy from a British perspective. Of course, like all stereotypes, they reveal more about the person doing the stereotyping than they do about the person being stereotyped.

For the record, American dictionaries generally resist listing slang terms, unless it's to point out how words like "ain't" or "irregardless," which are ungrammatical, even if they are used commonly. "Wanker" is a word used commonly in the US, though it is not usually meant as an "endearment" (in the US, to "wank" is a colloquialism for masturbation). "Fanny" is a real word found in the US dictionary, meaning "buttocks" - in Britain, I understand it's a slang term for female genetalia, comparable to "beaver" in the US. There are tons of these types of dialectic variations - petrol vs. gas, fag vs. cigarette.

As some have pointed out, variants occur even within a given country, sometimes even a city. Here in the US, in some areas when you go to the "liquor store," they put your "pop" in a sack; in New England, when you go to the "package store," they put your "soda" in a "bag." In some bars, when ordering a beer, you ask your waiter "what's on tap;" other places, you'd ask "what's on draw;" in others it's "what's on draft."

Probably the only thing that's unique to the US (and North America in general) compared to Australia is we're influenced by a broader range of languages here due to a broader multi-cultural experience - english is the primary language, but there are tons of American words appropriated from German, French, Spanish, Native American, Gaelic, ad infinitum. My mother is part Hawaiian, and terms like "kapakahi," (f**ked up or crooked) "maca piapia," (eye boogers) and "ipo" (darling) were in common use in the house I grew up in. I don't assume others are "thick" because they aren't familiar with them.

But if you think english is difficult, then you don't get out much. The variations in Spanish within Latin America, much less compared to Spain are even more significant. French, Quebecois and Cajun are all theoretically the same language, but a Montrealer in Paris or New Orleans is going to have some rough moments trying to communicate. Then you have Chinese, where the dialects are so distinct that a Mandarin speaker is going to find a Xiang speaker unintelligible.

Variety makes the world go round. Get over it.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 23:21:45 CET 2002 from du-tele3-097.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.97)

Peter Viney

A bit more on TLW (see also What's New?) - Wavelength (the Van mag) quotes Robbie "a lot of stuff we didn't use on the album because it was already three albums long. But now some amazing things FROM THE REHEARSALS are gonna make the package really terrific." more than we expected then! But rehearsals of "All Our Past Times" and "Further On Up the Road" exist on an Eric Clapton boot-" Eric Clapton, The Band & friends" so perhaps it's those.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 22:46:42 CET 2002 from du-tele3-078.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.78)

Peter Viney

It’s all been said before, it’s all been written in the (guest)book. On Borderline’s “Sweet Dreams & Quiet Desires” Richard Manuel appears as ‘Dick Handle’ and Garth Hudson as ‘Campo Malaqua’ because Grossman wanted to hide their session work. Note the puns “dick handle” and “malaqua” (which is Greek, meaning “wanker”). ‘wanker’ has different weight in different cultures. I like the Cockney rhyming slang, ‘a right Barclays’ (or a right Midland). This stands for ‘Barclays banker’ which stands for ‘wanker’. When we discussed this once before, I pointed out that the mild American insult ‘jerk’ stands for ‘jerk off’ … which means ‘wanker’ so is equally rude. Don’t get me on to a ‘right berk’.

Dialect experts have pointed out that while someone from London might find extreme Glasgow difficult, and someone from Boston might find West Texas difficult, in practice a Glaswegian and a West Texan have no difficulty in communicating, because both will modify their dialect to enable mutual comprehension.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 22:33:23 CET 2002 from bandfan.halden.net (195.70.189.163)

jh

Nomi,
I also hope to see some pics of Robbie at the Olympics soon. Any web sites out there with photos from the event?

Posted on Wed Feb 13 20:24:23 CET 2002 from (63.66.135.217)

JTull Fan

Bassmanlee: sorry, haven't been paying attention to the Charlottesville area recently. Just got back from CA, heading to Charleston, SC, then to Orlando/Tampa end of month. Musically I'm saving my pennies for Jazz Fest in N'awlins for 5 days in May. If you're in the Richmond area someday email me and we can hit a brewpub. Main St. Brewery, Richbrau, and Legends' Brewpub are highly recommended. Got our eyes set for 7/4 in Charlottesville at Oakencroft Winery, which is having an outdoors 'Blues & Wine' day.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 19:51:17 CET 2002 from sdn-ar-002ilurbap180.dialsprint.net (158.252.113.220)

Susan

Well, bassman, at least you understood the words the contractor was saying, even if you did not get the meaning. Sometime in the mid-70s I went along on a weekend band gig in Sikeston, Missouri. This is about 300 miles south and west of my home terriorty. While the band set up in the hotel bar I did my womanly duty and checked out the food and lodging situation. A couple of people were very enthusiasticly telling me about motels and restaurants in town, and I was doing my best to follow them, but I only understood a bout half the words. The accent was just too different for me to follow, although we were all native English speakers. We drove around town until we found food, and spent the night in the railroad hotel on the upper floors of the bar. Only $4 per night, and bathroom down the hall.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 19:26:15 CET 2002 from dialup-349.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.93)

Hank

David Powells eulogy of Dave Van Ronk was one of the most beautiful posts I've ever read in here.....

I met Dave Van Ronk in Greenwich Village in 1987......he was in a songwriters joint called "The Speakeasy" on MacDougal.......A big man, I recall......I was introduced to him by another Village songwriter/performer, since passed on, Tom Intondi, who, in turn was a friend of Rick Danko......I guess they all bein' in the Heavenly Greenwich Village now........

It's great seeing a scouser in 'ere, ain't it?.....just after our kid George passed on 'n' all....makes some sorta sense to me.....seein' that George loved The Band..........Alright there, Alan, la?

Posted on Wed Feb 13 19:11:48 CET 2002 from 56k-la-01-23.dial.qnet.com (209.221.212.86)

Dave the Phone Guy

IIkka,,,,,,Out in the Nevada desert we'll be enjoying our afternoon,,,,,BEER!

Posted on Wed Feb 13 19:02:36 CET 2002 from plantlogic.com (209.195.208.11)

bassmanlee

English being the primary language nominally spoken (or mangled) in the USA, we enjoy the luxury of traveling great distances within our own country and still have little trouble being understood on the basic level. This does not mean that the occasional misunderstanding of accent, meaning, slang, or phrase does not occur.

For example, about 20 years ago I was involved in a project in Virginia in which the engineers were all from Pennsylvania, but the contractors were almost all from parts deeper in the South than Virginia – like Arkansas, Georgia, etc. One day we were standing around after lunch chatting with some of the construction foreman when one of the Yankees asked the electrical foreman how things were going in a certain area.

"Why, it's goin' right down the chute!" enthused the grinning foreman. Simultaneously all the Northern faces fell. "Excuse me? What did you say?" stammered the engineer. "I said, it's goin' right down the chute!" said the foreman, grinning wider now as he chews his toothpick and his lieutenant chuckles. Faces fell further. Sensing that, although the Southerners liked to poke fun at us Yankees, something was not quite right with this scene. I asked him "Does that mean really, really bad...or really, really good?"

"Whah, thaat's just greaaat!", he drawled. Smiles suddenly rebounded on all faces. n We then explained that "right down the chute" is very close to "going down the tubes" (which he claimed never to have heard), or "in the dumper", meaning things could not be worse! They then explained that to them it meant they were on course and (like shooting rapids) everything was staying right down the (center of) the chute! Whew!

JTull - no, VA next week. As the great wheel turns, back to the very site of the above incident. Anything happening in the Charlottesville/Staunton area I should know about?

Posted on Wed Feb 13 18:55:53 CET 2002 from du3-3.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.3.3)

To Nomi (Japan)

"Tsugi ni, nimani no mado o akeru to, soko wa natsu no keshiki desu. Ike o wataru soyokaze ni, hasu no hana ga, yurayura to yurete imasu. Aoao to shigetta kodachi kara, semi no koe ga kikoemasu." - On the behalf of the guestbook community: We appreciate a visit from Japan. Thank you very much.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 18:48:20 CET 2002 from du3-3.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.3.3)

Ilkka

A serious post (for the change).
I was surprised when I read NANCY's post about differences in the English language in the different parts of the world. For me who has learned(?) English as the language #4 it is all the same everywhere. I can say in the middle of Nevada desert: "Did you enjoy your afternoon tea, Sir?" and to Alan and Peter in the middle of Herefordshire I could say: "Howdy folks". - On the other hand, I can say to my companion without anyone reacting: "Toi ranskalainen passintarkastaja haisee ihan venäläiselle mahorkalle."

I was interwiewed by a Finnish journalist on the other day, in my own language. I was satisfied because I could say what I _really_ wanted to say. In opposite to that in the Internet we "etrangers" have to do our best to communicate in English.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 18:33:15 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

NANCY Well Nanc, as thick as you seem to think americans are we do know how to read, so your message to EDGE in regards to watching what he says to us yanks was recieved loud and clear and Nanc one thing that you didnt mention to the EDGE and you couldnt know this because of your down under orgin and that is we thick yanks have a sense of humor and Im laughing as I write this---ohhhhh I almost forgot, whenever I think of you folks down there I think of that Dundee chap whos made all those blockbuster movies--- well we all have are cross to bare now dont we, good day Nancy

Posted on Wed Feb 13 18:04:16 CET 2002 from occns003.zaq.ne.jp (211.120.191.102)

nomi

I feel so good to see Robie Robertson in the Olympic opening celemoney!! I really hope to see the picture on this sight.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 17:52:20 CET 2002 from dhcp5858.sunyocc.edu (204.168.58.58)

FUNK,fred funk

MATT K. : Have two teenage daughters at home. One, ranked second in the state of New York last year in Slalom as Jr IV and was also ranked fourth in Giant Slalom. She practices three hours three nights weekly leaving time for homework and all days on Saturday.. The USSA/NYSSRA Races are on Sundays at different venues throughout the State. The dedication and hours put in to technically meet and beat the competiion is sometimes overwhelming. As a matter of fact Ive been skiing for going on 45 years (dating myself) and i still compete on the Masters Level.. I have snowboarded in the Bowls of Sun valley Id., Alta, and Snowbird Ut.. If there is plently of Deep Powder Snowboarding can be kinda fun; other wise its just plain boring.. Spending an entire day in a half pipe when you could be out exploring the Mountain and the aesthetic beauty surrounding you for me far surpasses sliding around on my ass listing to mostly disconcertable loud music is for me not the way to get the most out of the mountain experience.. I do realize though that this opinion is subjective and the world is changing.. NOT always for the better. I think the young American who placed second in the PIPE the other night put it best. " I was a skier first but couldnlt really get the hang of it.. I couldn't put my turns together; I tried snowboarding one day and by days end i was moving down the mountain like a star". Nough Said!

Posted on Wed Feb 13 17:05:27 CET 2002 from (66.200.102.18)

JTull Fan

BassManLee: My company is also in Automation & Controls. SCAAAARRRRY! Hope you don't have to go out to Chicago next month for National Mfg. Week. I got out of it by scheduling sales calls during that week.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 16:31:47 CET 2002 from syr-24-169-66-92.twcny.rr.com (24.169.66.92)

Bashful Bill

Well, I finally broke down and saw Joan Baez, for the first time, last night. Mrs. Bashful Bill has seen her a few times, and I bought her 2 tix for an anniversery present. I actually enjoyed it much more than I expected to. She was in suprisingly good voice, I had heard of late that her vocal chops weren't what they used to be.It was the first show of her current tour,as well as a makeup, as she had cancelled a good portion of her last tour due to the illness and death of her sister Mimi Farina lastyear. A lot of covers-Dylan, of course(Baby Blue), Steve Earle, Dar Williams, and Greg Brown. She also sang some songs written by her stage partners, folkies Richard Shindell,Tracy Grammar, and David Carter. Three songs into the show she did an acapella version of Dixie, and very clearly said "blood". Guess she didn't read Peter's article.And, I overheard a woman sitting near us raving about Ryan Adams Gold. All in all, I had a suprisingly good time.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 16:12:00 CET 2002 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Rose (Mary Steenburgen): "You sure look good in uniform."

Leo (Levon Helm): "Chicago turned me into a clothes horse."

--one of my favorite onscreen scenes involving Levon (from the film "End of the Line")

It's also nice to hear that Levon's onscreen daughter, Cissy Spacek, is once again nominated for an Oscar.

Regarding the length of Ryan Adams' "Gold" album -- many of you, like me, have purchased the "limited edition" version that contains a second disc of out-takes. These songs were trimmed from the regular CD version of "Gold", which includes 16 songs, to keep it down to around 70 minutes. Mr. Adams is a prolific songwriter and he evidently wanted to get all these songs released. With the way things are going in the recording industry, he knows how it feels to be "between labels" and unable to get an album released. His former group Whiskeytown was dropped by Geffen in 1999, after just completing an album. It took two years before that CD, "Pneumonia", was polished up and finally released on another label.

Word is that Mr. Adams already has new album ready for release soon, as well as yet another album of new material near completion. It was recently announced that "Gold" has been nominated for 3 Grammys. The video for the song "New York, New York" was filmed on location in New York City last September 7th!

Posted on Wed Feb 13 15:58:30 CET 2002 from stx32.library.uiuc.edu (130.126.32.133)

Susan

All Americans don't have trouble with English speakers from other shores. After a lifetime of reading, and watching The Professionals, I can work out most of Alan's posts. He mostly uses what I think of as older or classic slang. It's the new stuff that leaves me puzzled; Alan did use one word, beginning with n, but not naff, that I could not work out a meaning for. It's words like naff, and, most mysterious, big girls blouse, that have me pondering the ways of neology.

As for wanker, those in the know are always amazed to hear it used in imported tv shows on public television (public television, for those outside the US, is the more tony or cultured tv station in any particular area, often run by a university) because it probably would not pass the censors and standards if a US equivalent were used. As only a small portion of the audience knows the word it gets by. naff

Posted on Wed Feb 13 14:42:47 CET 2002 from plantlogic.com (209.195.208.11)

basmanlee

For the rest of you thick 'Mericans, a second-hand story from my engineering background to illuminate Nancy's polite references to the Brit-speak definition of "fanny".

An American was giving a technical talk to a non-technical and largely British audience about automation and controls (my field). He was trying to describe a retro-reflective photoeye, which has a pair of thick, bulging lenses like those magnifying specs worn by the severely sight-impaired. He described this pair of convex curves as looking, if turned face down, "like a fanny". At this several the women in the audience blushed and one got up and walked out.

After the talk, the embarrassed presenter asked his host what he had done wrong.

"Well," his host replied, "I think the term you were looking for was 'bum' (posterior). The 'fanny' is on the ladies' other side!"

Posted on Wed Feb 13 14:09:22 CET 2002 from pd9e67505.dip.t-dialin.net (217.230.117.5)

ulbiman

Hi, Nancy, good that you love Ryan Adams down under. Go to your record shop and get "Heartbreaker" his first solo cd and get all the stuff of Whiskeytown his former band. I hope i´m not boring you all with this information. BTW, the cover of Ryan´s cd (american flag) was shot before 9/11 ! And here something for our olympic freaks. All you swedish , finish (is that riht ?), american and canadian icehockey fans, take a look for the german team. They won there group. Maybe they can bother the big teams a little bit. which is a great success!

Posted on Wed Feb 13 13:37:12 CET 2002 from (205.211.160.1)

Dr. J.

So..... international intrigue in figure skaking....SKATEGATE... as it were. More interesting than the competition itself. Let's see how they deal with this one.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 13:21:01 CET 2002 from i249-009.nv.iinet.net.au (203.59.249.9)

Nancy

G'day to Alan!

Alan, you need to remember that colloquial expressions can lead to mucho confusion between people who live in different parts of the world. In fact some of YOUR words were lost on me even though there are firm ties between Australia and Britain (Britain being our Mother country sometime way back before the Republican movement was thought of).

I've been corresponding and communicating with several Americans and boy are they thick!!!!!!!!!! There are times when they hardly understand ANYTHING I say, and later they will blather on about things that have absolutely NO meaning here in Oz! I don't get it at all. I've even been forced to explain the meaning of such basic Aussie terms as "wanker" which as any one knows, is a form of endearment here (probably in the UK too). The word isn't even in the American Websters dictionary for crying out loud!

The other term that caused confusion is the word "fanny", which appears so many times in a well known song people mention here in the GB from time to time. It simply doesn't have the same meaning here in Australia as it does in the US, and this led to a fit of embarrassment in my young daughter when she gave up listening to the Hansons several years ago, and started to become aware of the the lyrics of my music instead.

So Alan, you must proceed with caution when dealing with people who communicate in mysterious tongues. A few careless words can change the meaning of your message completely. And lastly, what IS the meaning of that term you used a while back, "scouser" or "souser".......that went right over my head!!

Posted on Wed Feb 13 11:50:56 CET 2002 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

Chester

Hey -EDGE- thanx for the definition of Jammy Bastard and lucky in the fact that I discovered the Band. Marriage is a wonderfull thing-- as long as Im not involved in it that is-- Im sick of the figure skating, bring on the puck.

Posted on Wed Feb 13 10:15:45 CET 2002 from (203.59.249.9)

Nancy

I support Brien Sz's comments about Ryan Adams' "Gold" being a mite too long. This doesn't mean that I've studied it minutely and can name those tracks I would have saved for another day. I'm just stating my opinion based on how I feel when I listen to it. And maybe that kin