The Band Guestbook, September 2012
Entered at Sun Sep 30 20:09:22 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
PutEmup(Friend0Subject: Jimmy Vivino and The Black Italians
One of the best live bands of the 90s,anywhere. they held court at Downtime Thursday nights, and holidays.Every Thanksgiving and New Years eve.The year that Hendrix woulda had a significant brithday, it fell on erev thanksgiving,Vivino,Kooper (mostly on guitar),and others played into the wee hours. Downtime was home, and the band was the host.We had a regular group there, and Thursday at Downtime was the best possible first date to take a woman to.Great live music, booze, friends & camaraderie.
The Black Italians on Thursdays was the destination gig for out of town or returning musicians.Wayne Perkins, Eliott Randall, Shuggie Otis, are just the first names that come to mind that played with them.Randall , quite a few times.Otis, a few. Mark Naftalin, anytime in N Y, sometimes for months at a time.Kooper, anytime he was in. the .Almost always on holidays. Booby Bell.....
Dec 1st, they are playing at the Cutting Room. Blind Pig records is recoirding it for release. this is what i was referring to the other day.This is gonna be one muthafucker of a record. IT should have been made in the 90s and the Black Italians should have been a well known band. Yes,Vivino,Merrit, Worm, all were busy, with great careers. but, they should have been recorded.Now, even though they've only played a handful of gigs in the last 13 or 14 years, here it comes. Don't get me wrong- this is a record that should get made. Blind Pig is making a good record...i';m not up on Pig's recent stuff, but i know for years they were releasing a good share of blues schlock.... so this is a good turn to taste.Why now? That was the point i was making the other day- the industry has nothing resembling rhyme or reason. Blind Pig usually did not release stuff that would n't get supported. So hopefully this indicates/ means some touring by the Black Italians,Jimmy still has the Fab Faux thing, but with Levon's death, less reason to gig in NY.Some place he has reason to go. Yes, he has to love playing with Garth, but this may means The Black italians start gigging around. Maybe Festival next year....
Entered at Sun Sep 30 18:10:18 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VWithout climbing the stairs to find it, Jools Holland's autobiography has something to say on bands which were basically pub rock (like Squeeze) attaching themselves to the punk bandwagon. Elvis Costello is another good example.
Entered at Sun Sep 30 16:28:26 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
JTLocation: Victoria and Toronto intermittently
Atitude is one thing; music is another. The 'punk' attitude is one which we have seen since my time on the planet. I saw it in the 'greasers' of the late 50s and we who went to public school tried to look like them with the greased hair and the ducktails. Then we saw it again with the 'bad boys' (Stones, Animals) and British Walkers and boots and long hair. Then again in the 70s and then grunge groups from Seattle and other places. The music is another. Sometimes good and sometimes less than good. I think Neil emulated Johnny Rotten for attitude and not necessarily for the music. I liked the late 50s bands because it was something I had never heard before, having grown up as a kid on the radio hits of Rosemary Clooney and Theresa Brewer and the likes of them. I liked the British 60s (bad boys) because of the adoption of classic blues . I did not much care for the punk of the 70s with Elvis Costello the absolute exception then. As for grunge Seattle, I gradually caught on with my kids and ultimately continue to listen to Pearl Jam and Cobain and others. So in my view the 'punk attitude' has become prominent at times in the western world while the music at times has failed to rise to my expectations. That was the case for most of the 70s punk.
Entered at Sun Sep 30 13:10:04 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Al EdgeSubject: Punk and BOFs
Got to say I'm with you on the punk thing Pete. I too was a BOF and so thought it was shit back then. Still do. Which I guess now qualifies me as a BAF. [Boring Ancient Fart for those who've never read the NME]
Sure Joe Strummer was pure out and out class and Paul Weller too but the other lot to me stand as merely an invention of incredibly gifted self publicists aided and abetted by music fanatics from the NME desperate to be in on the start of something momentous and succeeding by the power of media manipulation.
The movement existed more in the minds of these few media parasites rather than in real life - much like a huge chunk of the Madchester crap that followed some years later courtesy of Anthony H Wilson - mere minority media controlled hype.
As far as I've ever been able to determine both "phenomena" seemed to have their roots in either an instinctive self publicist genius evidenced by malcolm maclaren or an intrinsic jealousy of the global dominance of The Beatles within a few rock fanatics with significant media influence such as the aforementioned Wilson.
What they cultivated with such minimal genuine raw material talent was nothing short of amazing and you do have to hand it to them.
But as for any real substance or quality? - nah. A thousand times nah.
Entered at Sun Sep 30 12:52:21 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Al EdgeSubject: I agree Si - you simply can't whack...
...an hour or so with panting honeydips buried knee high up to your digits. It's a Curtis Mayfield thang I guess.
Entered at Sun Sep 30 12:40:02 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Micro$oft ordeals / punk
Jeez. A tiny security update to Microsoft Office just cost me about two hours. It then asked for my “PRODUCT ID” which it wouldn’t recognize. I eventually realized it actually meant by “PRODUCT ID” my KEY CODE which was on my computer … in WORD which wouldn’t open because I didn’t have a key code. An hour searching for the original DVD case without luck. Finally I remembered that Pages will open Word files. Think I’ll just stick to Pages in future! And write things down with a pen on paper.
One reason so many of my age group failed to get the excitement in 1977 was that we had heard White Light White Heat by the VU years before, and in my case I’d seen David Bowie do it live (twice) in 1971. So what’s new? was our response.
Entered at Sun Sep 30 10:11:06 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Punk & 1977
Why I never got punk
Have you ever done the game where you think of reliving one week of your life? And choosing which week? For me a major contender would be a particular week in May or June 1977. I’m sure everything wasn’t as rosy as it seems in memory, but I had a good job, we’d just started buying our first flat, I had a new car (a sturdy Fiat 128 Rallye). At that point, both Mrs V and I had either just signed or were about to sign our first publishing contracts (on separate ventures too.) At work, we’d just finished setting up a spoken voice studio, and the new toys were two hefty U-Matic video cameras we were just beginning to explore.
We were also at our fittest. We hadn’t had a holiday for two years, saving up the deposit on the flat, and we were in Llandudno in North Wales (which Al and Simon will know, I think, as it’s often called “the seaside of Liverpool”). We were staying at a vegetarian guest house and walking miles over the hills every day. The food was good, but served at six. They locked the doors at 9 pm. This was 1970s Wales. We used to wander down to the pub and have two bottles of Royal Jubilee Beer each, then amass our considerable collection of rude seaside postcards, which were the only things you could buy in Llandudno apart from china ornaments with LLANDUDNO on them. We still have the postcards. Then we’d eat mints before returning (the vegetarian guest house was also teetotal) and would be forced to have an obligatory free cup of hot cocoa at nine with the owner, who was a chiropractor (and actually fun to talk to).
So I wasn’t a natural candidate for punk at all. The charts were full of ABBA and Saturday Night Fever stuff. I bought the Saturday Night Fever album. Records I bought in the year of punk included Free by Deneice Williams, Float On by The Floaters, Knowing Me Knowing You by Abba, Hotel California by The Eagles, I Feel Love by Donna Summer, Got To Give It Up by Marvin Gaye, So You Win Again by Hot Chocolate, Exodus by Bob Marley, Sir Duke by Stevie Wonder. I still like every one of those songs. Free was huge while we were there (which suggests it was May). I remember hearing Roadrunner by Jonathan Richman & The Modern Lovers on the radio right after Free. It didn’t enter the chart until July (I’m looking at the Guinness Book of Top 40 Hits), but I bought it as soon as we got back. I thought The Sex Pistols were total garbage … Jonathan Richman could play, sing, had a sense of humour AND sounded like The Velvet Underground in a sunny mood.
So it’s an age thing. I was twenty-nine when punk hit.
Entered at Sun Sep 30 08:29:49 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VI'm just showing my age. As I keep working on British record labels I have to acknowledge the huge collectibility of punk. Some I get: The Clash and The Jam seem head and shoulders above any of the others. The Sex Pistols to me are a major cultural phenomenon of zero musical interest, but I loathed them in 1977, and I totally fail to see why Never Mind The Bollocks ever makes those Top Ten albums list, or Top 1000 for that matter,
If you think back to those six people you would most like for dinner, I reckon the Jools Holland show had four I would least like to share a table with! Brian Wilson (comatose ) Mike Love, John Lydon and the knowledgeable but so irritating Jools Holland, Brian is one of the musicians I admire most, but not in any stretch of the imagination an interesting dinner companion.
Entered at Sun Sep 30 07:52:49 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
SimonI guess it's easy to get confused when there are so many Liverpool FC fans on the GB. We're dashing and debonair, we have exquisite taste and we're constantly being pursued by panting honeydips trying to get our digits. Plus, we're modest to a fault.
Entered at Sun Sep 30 06:14:57 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Kevin JSubject: Peter said Simon said what.....never mind the ......
Since we are not sure whether he liked PIL or not, allow me to suggest that the estimable Simon might well have answered that what makes Johnny Rotten truly great is that he has been consistently "astonishingly bad" for 37 years..........quite an achievement really........and with Jesus on strings and Mike Love in the house.......looking gooooooood was easy.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 23:55:57 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VSimon, you liked the PiL song? Different strokes for different folks. I thought he was appallingly bad!
Entered at Sat Sep 29 22:53:08 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
AriWeb: My link
I made a movie this year at NYU and I've gotten the rights for certain songs in the film. If you'll check out the soundtrack listings I think you'll recognize a couple of the musicians. The title of the film is also courtesy of a song you all probably know.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 20:55:38 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
SimonEdit: misspelled the name, it's Jasmine Kara.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 20:16:57 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
SimonAl - Thanks for the link. A lot of this stuff must have passed me by when it first came out. One of my friends had a great Mother Earth track called "Time of the Future" that takes me back. I did buy "Villager" on LP at the time, I just haven't got a turntable set up at the mo. I'd kind of forgotten all about it. The reissue add half a dozen bonus live tracks. It's a really cool album.
Makes me a bit wistful that we didn't get a summer this year, apart from one week in May it just didn't happen.
I explored the Acid Jazz site a bit and heard a few things from a Swedish singer by the name of Jasmine Kane. She's got an album that draws from the Chess back catalog. It's firmly 'retro yet updated' and it certainly doesn't hurt that she's strikingly pretty. Might take a chance on the album.
Last but not least RIP Frank Wilson. "Do I Love You" is a classic.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 19:43:19 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
JoanWeb: My link
Neil Young was on Letterman talking about this. I would be interested in what you folks think David P et al.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 19:36:50 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Subject: Johnny Rotten lights up Jools - see link
I'd take this every day of the week over seeing Mike Love and a Vegas style Beach Boys............
Entered at Sat Sep 29 19:16:37 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Frank Wilson
RIP indeed. Do I Love You? is the most valuable 45 of all time, and the rarest Motown record in its original form. Frank Wilson recorded it for Motown, but it was decided that he should stick to writing / producing and it was abandoned. A copy of Do I Love You (Indeed I Do) was sold for £25,000 in 2009 on Motown’s Soul label. The copy has a rubber stamp and handwriting on it. The other known copy has an autographed greeting from Frank Wilson, which is probably a plus. It shows the massive value of original pressings because it's been re-issued on CD many times so is not hard to get.
One of the many subtle references in "Cemetery Junction", the Ricky Gervais-Stephen Merchant produced film set in 1973, is that when the lads go into the club, three-quarters of the way through, Do I Love You (Indeed I Do) is what the band is playing. Highly unlikely in reality, but a great and knowing nod to one of the great soul records.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 16:26:21 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Al EdgeWeb: My link
Subject: Frank Wilson RIP
On a sadder note.
Frank Wilson one of Motown's unsung geniuses.
Link to Wilson's Do I Love You - Northern Soul's finest discovery? Can't think of anything better which is saying something
Entered at Sat Sep 29 16:19:01 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Al EdgeWeb: My link
Subject: Matt Deighton
Beautiful Si. Sure is a talented fella. Seems destined to remain in the same lost genius category as Gene Clark, Nick Drake and our very own Mick Head. I mean Mick's magical World of the Strands isn't that far off the perfection of Big Pink and the Brown album yet no fucker outside of Liverpool has even heard of him.
D'you remember this Matt Deighton song from some years back? Outstanding track with Mother Earth.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 11:06:31 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
SimonWeb: My link
Subject: "Villager" by Matt Deighton
Just noticed this album has been re-released after a period of being out of print. Something of an under the radar classic from 1995, I can wholeheartedly recommend this. The above link is to "Jesus Loves the Rain" (slow fade in with a Steve Stills-like quality) and if you do a search YouTube you should be able to find a lovely live version of the title track, "Villager." He has an interesting voice and he's also an excellent guitarist. I suppose the album is a precursor to the recent British new folk movement, and song titles like "Pure English Honey" and "Windmills of Norfolk" should give you a hint of the vibe of this album. Bucolic summery English acousticana is how I'd describe it.
I haven't heard his other stuff so can't comment on it but I think people might really like the "Villager" album. I haven't read a bad review of it.
dlew - Thanks for those mandolin links.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 10:31:01 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Subject: Beach Boys
The Beach Boys also did Do It Again (linked). You may have to check links … there about six and several say "taken down because of copyright claim by the BBC" though more keep going up.
Do It Again was fine, but I am really pleased I saw them back with Carl singing. They also did Isn't It Time which was dire beyond my worst nightmares of how the mighty could fall.
Fortunately it didn't look so bad because it was immediately followed by PiL with John Lydon which sank to even greater depths.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 10:23:10 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Subject: Beach Boys
Link to the Beach Boys on Jools Holland this week … Barbara Ann. Brian's lack of communication is screaming out. Brian's band leader does the hard singing bits. Why did they let Jools play piano? Ah, well. A quote from Simon Reynolds' book "Retromania.":
"This is the way pop ends, not with a BANG but with a box set whose fourth disc you never get around to playing and an over-priced ticket to the track-by-track restaging of the album you played to death in your first year at university."
Entered at Sat Sep 29 08:24:59 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Subject: Whispering Pines - Professor Louie
Entered at Sat Sep 29 07:43:01 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Subject: Roy Buchanan - The Guitar & the 1970s
Entered at Sat Sep 29 07:03:27 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
PutEmUp(friend0Al- the Politics of Meaning- yes "something to feel"- , on a grander level. Thanks for pasting that article.
Something to feel, alife with meaning, back in the
mid 70s, my core group, 16 at 1975, that's what those of us with abrain were looking for,
it got away,
and those of us who didn't forget found a way to live our lives with meaning.B ut, no, we never got it to the grander level.Which is what i suspected would happen way back then.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 06:17:08 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0You almost heard it here-FIRST. Just remember i posted this, about news i received yesterday. The things that happen in the music business, world, industry, whatever one wants to call whatever it is today, are getting more and more unusual. This one, is a good 20 years behind the times. But, it is wonderfuckingful!Amen.
Entered at Sat Sep 29 00:44:43 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Kevin JDavid P: Thank you. I had not seen that whole performance before and never that little “call over” moment with the always bewildered Mr. Sullivan…..always striking to see how much taller Robbie was than the other guys and also just how fit and handsome Richard was…………………………was it really only just 6 years later that it all came tumbling down…….wild.
Bill M: Just playing some Roy Buchanan.....thanks for the reminder of him......
Entered at Fri Sep 28 23:48:17 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Al, i wish i couldgive a properly considered response to what you pasted. Tt's been a nasty week and a half, here, up to my ears. but, there's a lot to those 5 points the man makes about Springsteen, especially the 1) recognition and embrace of commonality 2) and the need, implementation of meaning and purpose. Voicing these thigns can be a bit twittyish, but, people who live that way, without thinking about it, well, they live good lives...Everything is a choice.... every action is a choice, conscious or not, but treating people ethically in business and life, and refusing unethicaldealings and smiling and making people laugh all day long- that;s a good life. You never know whom you are next to, or what that person is feelingright then, and talking to people, and findiong out who they are, well, sometimes you geta surprise at who walks into your life. they may be just an other schmuck, but they may have a lot to offer you,, or you may have a lot to offer them.Which means they have alot to offer you. Springsteens songs do tend to show this side to his consciousness, and I do think he is a political guy.. I wonder if he is gonna be content with being political through music.Probably so, but ya never know.
Entered at Fri Sep 28 20:41:44 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
Subject: The Band Gets Respect From Ed Sullivan
The Band performing "Up On Cripple Creek" live on the Ed Sullivan Show Nov. 2, 1969. Also performing were Buck Owens, Petula Clark, Pearl Bailey and Rodney Dangerfield (doing his "no respect" routine) :-)
Entered at Fri Sep 28 18:15:28 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Bill MKevin J: I've never seen Ry Cooder, but I have seen Flaco Jimenez - at Harbourfront ca '89 - exactly where and about when I saw Roy Buchanan. A few days later a work-mate happened to mention that her partner liked Tex-Mex, so I asked her if he was at Flaco's show. She didn't know offhand, but came back the next day with the word: "You tell your friend Bill that not only was I there, but me and my buddies kidnapped him afterwards and dragged him up to Grossmans to sit in." Now that would have been something to see, eh?
Entered at Fri Sep 28 16:31:40 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Bill MDavid P: Thanks for the info re Barnaby, Janus and GRT. I didn't know the latter two were the same company.
I have to assume that Link Wray's "Rumble" inspired Jerry Warren and his group to title their one and only single "Tremble". The original lineup of Jerry Warren and the Tremblers that did that record, in '59 I think, were all Hamilton guys, but the group subsequently became a bit of a way-station for Buffalo and Toronto guys coming to and from the Hawks: Stan Szelest, Scott Cushnie, Rebel Paine, Pete Traynor, Sandy Konikoff.
Entered at Fri Sep 28 07:10:26 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Subject: Ry Cooder - Stand By Me 1977
Entered at Thu Sep 27 21:58:48 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
David PSubject: The Moon River Connection
The famous songwriter Johnny Mercer, who was from Savannah, Georgia, wrote the lyrics for "Moon River", Andy Williams' signature song. Mr. Mercer had also co-founded Capitol Records in 1942. Later in 1955 EMI acquired majority interest in Capitol.
Entered at Thu Sep 27 20:46:35 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Sya ArchangelWeb: My link
great site n music,. Maybe one day we can play it together. :)
Entered at Thu Sep 27 19:31:08 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
David PSubject: Cadence Records
Link Wray briefly recorded for Cadence. At the time only one single was released, but as many music fans, particularly guitarists know, it was the hugely influential 1958 instrumental "Rumble". Cadence's Archie Bleyer, unlike his daughter, didn't care for Mr. Wray's sound and soon thereafter dropped him from the label, shelving the rest of the session masters he'd recorded at the time. Those "lost" Cadence recordings were released some 50 years later by Sundazed, but that limited release is now out-of-print.
Entered at Thu Sep 27 18:40:23 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Subject: Little Feat for a slow day
Entered at Thu Sep 27 16:37:30 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
David PBill M: Janus/GRT was the distributor for Baranaby Records from the mid to late '70s.
Entered at Wed Sep 26 23:06:22 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Bill MDavid P: I didn't know any of that. For some reason Barnaby is associated with the Janus label in my mind. Is there a connection that you know of?
Entered at Wed Sep 26 22:12:14 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
David PSubject: Andy Williams
Mr. Williams was also known as the founder of the Barnaby Records label. Early in his career he recorded for Archie Bleyer's Cadence Records, along with others, most notably the Everly Brothers. When the Everlys left to sign with Warner Bros. and Williams signed with Columbia in the early '60s, Cadence never regained momentum. Later, when Bleyer began liquidating, Williams sought to buy his old Cadence master recordings and Bleyer countered that he would have to purchase the entire Cadence catalog, which he did. Williams, after some of his Cadence recordings were reissued by Columbia, then set up his own Barnaby Records label to handle Cadence reissues, as well as signing new artists. Perhaps the best known of the the latter was Jimmy Buffett, whose first two albums were released on the Barnaby label.
Entered at Wed Sep 26 21:17:09 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Subject: Andy Williams
First I knew was when someone commented on my word press review from 2001 (linked). He was indeed a brilliant singer. Not the Band ort of thing, but he released a dozen or more classics. RIP.
Entered at Wed Sep 26 20:41:06 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
joe jWeb: My link
Probably the first and last mention of Andy Williams on these pages. See link to Peter, Paul, Mary & Andy.
Entered at Wed Sep 26 20:36:40 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
glenn tSubject: springsteen article
thanks al edge for sharing that article about springsteen. i've been to 3 springsteen shows and always love the community feeling and positive vibe that the boss creates with his music, his enthusiasm, his joy. he is amazing. and i'm happy to share an appreciation of his music with my wife, who heard "thunder road" and said who's that singer? (she's from kenya, and hadn't been exposed to his music.)
Entered at Wed Sep 26 18:54:04 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Bashful Bill(again)Location: Minoa, NY ( still)
Al will be happy to know that at the ripe old age of 60 ( I turned 61 a couple weeks later) I finally saw Springsteen. A near full moon evening and perfect weather for an outdoor, end of Summer show. I knew I'd have a good time but I wasn't prepared to get sucked in as quickly as I did. The first song was Out on the Street and I was singing along with about 18,000 other very responsive and happy people, and I kept singing and doing my version of dancing for the next 3+ hours. I also wasn't prepared to admit that everything I've ever heard or read about him is accurate, but there you go - never too old to learn. I bought tickets for my girlfriend, who's long been a fan, for her birthday. For going on 5 years I've been listening to her expound on his brilliance ( that of Roger Waters, too), passion, professionalism and and influence, and in fact she easily could have written the article you posted, which I just read ( I'm serious about that - she's a very good, and published, writer). Tickets were $96 plus the usual ripoff charges(all general admission), which is why I think the crowd was relatively small. Money's pretty tight for me, of late, but every dollar was worth the joy on her face. I'm a convert, Al - I went to the revival meeting and went right up front.
Entered at Wed Sep 26 18:27:41 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Bashful BillLocation: Minoa, NY
Subject: Rascals and Kevin......
That's good news - to me - re the Rascals. Dino Danelli played on Little Steven's first solo album, bought by myself and a handful or so of people back in the day. And thanks, Kevin. I'll take your word and avoid at all costs. If I spot it in the library I'll give it a listen - I've been doing a lot of that lately.......
Entered at Wed Sep 26 16:19:09 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
David PSubject: Little Steven as Silvio the Consigliere Breaks It Down
Tony Soprano: "Sil, break it down for 'em. What two businesses have traditionally been recession-proof since time immemorial?"
Silvio Dante: "Certain aspects of show business and our thing."
Entered at Wed Sep 26 16:05:01 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Al EdgeSubject: "Pretty persuasion"
Ha ha. How did he manage it DP?
Did he send in Paulie Walnuts to ..er.. talk some sense inta dem
Great news. Especially for PB I'd think.
Entered at Wed Sep 26 15:57:24 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
Subject: It's A Beautiful Morning
Kudos to Steven Van Zandt for his persistence in persuading the four original members of the Rascals to reunite, as they will be performing three concerts in December.
Entered at Wed Sep 26 14:39:58 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Kevin JOver to you Zocher!
Entered at Wed Sep 26 12:38:18 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Al EdgeSubject: The Politics of meaning
Jeff, I recall you alluding to this political aspect of Springsteen some time ago.
Just caught an article which delves into it in some depth. To summarise it's about inclusion, community and being - or more crucially feeling - part of something more meaningful and important than yourself.
It brings to mind my favourite ever Springsteenism, namely "nobody wins unless everybody wins" - which may be readily dismissed as glib by some yet it's underlying message remains so powerfully true if our connection to humanity is the overriding factor in us all being here.
Personally, for what it's worth, I think the Springsteen references and interpretations have been grafted onto prose already previously written by the author. However, they work and add weight because they happen to be true and underpin the basic humanitarian thrust of the original core of what he's written.
Bruce Springsteen and the Politics of Meaning in America
By Michael Bader, AlterNet
Others have written about the complicated ways that Bruce Springsteen weaves together the personal and the political and how this interweaving has developed over time. I'll mention some of these themes but won't spend a lot of time exploring or illustrating them:
1) First and foremost, the healing and transcendent power of love and community. This is, perhaps, one of the most central concerns of his life. His songs are full of it. The ecstatic sense of abandon, fusion and joy at his concerts feature it. The broader as distinct from narrower football stadium connotations of Wrecking Ball is a good example of this.
2) Mutual recognition and embrace of the Other: Springsteen's songs are full of images of people making the choice to—in the end—see their commonality rather than their difference. The Ghost of Tom Joad is full of stories like this.
3) Confronting the survivor guilt facing his generation as they became parents and achieved economic security and success. Perhaps the best line in all of Springsteen's music about this is from Lucky Town where he complains that "it's a sad funny ending, when you find yourself pretending, a rich man in a poor man's shirt."
4) The insistent search for meaning and purpose in the face of alienation, loneliness, and the mundane repetitive rhythms of everyday life, whether that be through leaving home, rock-and-roll, love, or the redemptive courage shown in a song like "Into the Fire" in The Rising.
5) Outrage at the breakdown of our society's social safety net and promise of collective responsibility along with a call to not only restore it but relentlessly offering up example after example of small acts in which this is manifested.
Each of these themes could be elaborated in great detail. I'm not going to focus here, however.
[SIDE NOTE: I wish I could say that these themes were what first drew me to Springsteen, but I can't. I first heard him when he was with Steel Mill. He played at my senior prom, after which I was mostly looking forward to getting high and playing around with my girlfriend!]
There is an old adage is that there are two sources of political power: organized money and organized people. The Right has almost unlimited oceans of money and organization. The Progressive Movement needs to organize people in numbers far far greater than we've done to date.
I'm going to argue this: That in order to organize and engage the masses of people we need, progressives have to expand their notions of what makes people tick, of what they need, of what they value and long for----from a simplistic liberal emphasis on economic justice and equity to a broader view of human needs that include needs for recognition, meaning, connectedness, and agency.
Bruce Springsteen's music and his performances do just that. They suggest the possibility of a relationship with oneself, with others, and with the social world that elicit and cherish just these kinds of values and needs in his audience.
So, even though Springsteen can often sound like he's offering a traditional liberal critique of class and the maldistribution of income and wealth, I think he's doing much more. I think he's one of few musicians today articulating a politics of meaning which I will argue is the only approach that progressives can take in our current climate that has a snowball's chance in hell of winning.
And it's an approach missing everywhere in our movement.
So, what is this predicament and why can't old style liberal democratic politics compete any more?
I wear two hats. I'm a psychoanalyst with over 30 years clinical experience. But for the last 10 years I've been part of an interdisciplinary group called the Institute for Change. We already do or soon will work with some of the most powerful leaders and organizations in the progressive movement today, including labor unions, progressive fundraising groups and infrastructure groups that provide much of the "intelligence," data, and strategy that contribute to shaping our movement's direction.
The progressive movement, including the Democratic Party is on the run everywhere. Unleashed by the Citizens United Court decision, an unlimited tsunami of money is flooding political contests at every level, not just the national election.
In addition, the current Great Recession, and the unchecked greed that both caused and resulted from it, have revealed, not just created, fractures and weaknesses and suffering that have been going on for a long time now. My view is that the non-economic suffering, now extreme, has been every bit as profound as the economic suffering, except that so much of the non-economic suffering exacerbates the feelings of self-blame, cynicism, anxiety, and resignation that makes it even harder for progressives to engage people.
The loss of a job or insecurities about such a loss reverberate through marriages and families. The suffering is not just material, but psychological and relational. Such losses and threats create high levels of anxiety and stress, depression and self-doubt. People blame themselves. This is what Springsteen sings about so often. They lose their tempers more often, retreat from social contact, suffer from increasing amounts of insomnia, drug and alcohol use and abuse. Their health deteriorates. And for every person directly affected, there are many others in relationship to this person affected as well.
Relationships are strained as homes go under water. This is the first time in history that parents can't expect that their kids will do better than them. Optimism and joy become harder to come by. Think about the unintended neglect caused by mothers having to shorten maternity leaves or parents leaving their kids to hold down 2 or 3 jobs. And, in fact, studies show that young people are increasingly distrustful of others, depressed, and "lost."
We still live within the myth that this is a meritocracy, that one's mobility and success is a sign of one's value and ability. During economic slowdowns, people's sense of agency becomes shot through with depressive resignation, a combination of self-blame and helplessness that is toxic. And who writes about this better than Bruce?
In other words, the suffering in America today is not simply material or economic. It involves the frustration of other needs as well, including needs for meaning, for recognition, for connectedness or community, and for agency. These other needs are every bit as important and their frustration causes every bit as much suffering.
When recessions like this one stimulate and accentuate these forms of suffering, there are few institutions on the Left that are available or capable of addressing them. Unions are shrinking or on the run. The Church has increasingly exited public life, except for conservative ones.
And liberals are still fixated on the mistaken notion that economic welfare alone as the only dimension of human life that can motivate people to connect with a movement.
We—progressives—talk about the availability of jobs, not community, not the quality of work, the mind-numbing alienation that such jobs are often infected by. One of the best lines at the Democratic Convention was when Joe Biden said that "a job is about more than a paycheck; it's about dignity." Springsteen is constantly talking about the distance between the crushing blow of losing a job or its degradation and the ideal.
We talk about access to quality health care, but don't really emphasize problems that affect people who DO have health insurance, things like wait times, and inaccessible doctors and, most of all, the almost complete breakdown of the doctor-patient relationship.
There's a void in our politics that can't be filled by the outrage of people pissed off at banks and a lack of fairness. In 2000, the sociologist Robert Putnam wrote a book called "Bowling Alone" in which he demonstrated the degree to which community has broken down in America, fraternal, collective, community based organizations that used to provide social support.
Working with Labor Unions, I've seen over and over again, that the assumption of their leaders and staff is always that the only thing their members care about is protection and money and, thus, their interactions with members are usually limited to solving problems and negotiating contracts rather than what community organizers have known for years---that peoplehunger for relationships, for recognition, opportunities to learn and make a contribution.
This is something that the leaders of the civil rights movement understood, but that we've forgotten.
I'd argue that, whether or not he is always conscious of it, Bruce Springsteen has not forgotten.
During the 1992 campaign, soon after her father died, Hillary Clinton gave a speech in which she said something like this: "The ‘market' knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. We need a politics of meaning in America." She was a reader of Tikkun Magazine whose editor, Rabbi Michael Lerner, had been arguing for years that the Left, progressives, and liberals had let the Right represent itself as the ones who stood for community, for religion, for family, for the values of work and safety.
As opposed to our movement which talks almost exclusively about rights and money and the safety net and jobs.
Springsteen talks about mainstream liberal issues, too. These traditional liberal democratic themes are ubiquitous in his music. But I'd argue that it's because he also address these other, non-economic needs, that his appeal is not limited to liberals or the Left. He's not, for example, in this one sense, like my second favorite singer/songwriter—Steve Earle.
Springsteen speaks—in his music and in his concerts in particular—to the usually unarticulated needs for meaning, connectedness, and mutual recognition that we all have, but that—in our culture—rarely are allowed to take center stage. For progressives, this is especially important, because the almost universal response to his songs, the way that both the content and the form of their presentation "calls" us to a higher purpose, connects us to each other, and offers us a place in a bigger story, is powerful evidence that these needs ought to ALSO be central in our political work.
That is, if we want to connect to people, engage masses of people in our movement, then we better figure out a way of speaking to people at all of the multiple levels that Springsteen does.
That's why conservatives can like Springsteen—at least his concerts—I think. That's why David Brooks can follow him around Europe, even though he then writes a nonsense column to explain Springsteen's appeal. It's because Brooks, himself, like many Americans, never has much of an experience of being part of something bigger than himself. There's nothing ordinarily for him to "get on-board."
Springsteen intentionally creates an ecstatic community in his concerts, and it's a loving one. It speaks to the hunger we have to such an experience. His songs are often about recognition, about being part of something bigger than the self, and about having the power to make choices, even if these choices go against conventional norms.
I don't believe that a singer or songwriter can change someone's mind about fundamental ideological choices. I do, however, think that he or she can capture the leading edge of emerging shifts in consciousness and that his or her popularity can help us understand feelings and longings that are typically not expressed or satisfied in everyday life.
And in Bruce Springsteen's case, I think that his phenomenal popularity results from the ways he touches our unmet needs for community, meaning and purpose, and recognition.
I would call this a Politics of Meaning and I think it is the only approach progressives can take to our present predicament that has a snowball's chance in hell of winning.
Entered at Wed Sep 26 12:02:15 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VSomething I'd never noticed. Every year we have a small reunion lunch for the class at school when we were 15 or 16 … about eight of us. We always have a Music Quiz, and we have the start of about thirty songs which you have to recognise. I'm just starting it in Garage Band and was going through The Beatles … it's amazing how often they either started with the words early on, or got the words into the first few bars. It's quite hard to find stuff with a reasonable intro without the words giving the game away.
Entered at Wed Sep 26 09:19:08 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Subject: The Devil You Know: Rickie Lee Jones
Oh, bugger. I've already ordered it from amazon. On Sympathy For The Devil, I think she's trying to do just what Cat Power did with Satisfaction (linked), and it may sink in … Cat Power's version of Satisfaction definitely does grow. Funny, both reviews I read said Sympathy For The Devil was the best track, and one said The Weight was "indifferent." We'll see.
Entered at Wed Sep 26 06:41:58 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Kevin JOh my...........run for the hills Bill.........I've just heard "The Weight" and it's even more dire than SFTD.............
Entered at Wed Sep 26 06:33:10 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Subject: Ricki Lee Jones
Bashful Bill............I have liked RLJ in about the same way as you have over the years......her taste and delivery at times has been superb.......but have only heard the attached link to "Sympathy for the Devil" and it is almost unlistenable.........
Entered at Wed Sep 26 05:51:35 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Bashful BillLocation: Minoa, NY
Subject: Ricki Lee Jones
Just wondering - any fans here? I've always liked her, but only selectively. Has anyone heard her new album, which is a covers album with The Weight on it?
Entered at Tue Sep 25 19:35:23 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Subject: Sam Sniderman The Record Man
In an article in Toronto Star today, the critic Peter Howell recalls Sam:
I was at a trade show recently and saw a demonstration of something called the compact disc,” he told me.
“It’s this tiny silver disc that can hold way more music than a vinyl LP. I think this is going to be very big in the 1980s.”
1983 saw the cd show its shiny face and in 1985 his prediction came to pass.
Entered at Tue Sep 25 17:26:53 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Stevie W's solos were always fun live - see above link.
Entered at Tue Sep 25 17:25:22 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
Subject: Nifty Play From Steve the Drummer
Paul Simon basically built a song around a Steve Gadd drum solo (link above) based on an exercise incorporating patterns from Steve's marching band experience.
Entered at Tue Sep 25 15:12:39 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Al EdgeSubject: Drumming it in
As teenage Catholics in the late 60's Liverpool the priests would give us the option for our penance for missing Mass on Sundays:
24 hour's sack cloth and ashes
10 minutes of Jon Hiseman's Colloseum on the headphones
Needless to say you only ever plumped once for the shorter option
Entered at Tue Sep 25 09:37:07 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Subject: drum solos
The drum solo is much derided, and the huge kits that well-known drummers fill the stage with are designed for that moment, or rather twelve minutes, of glory. I groaned through so many drum solos (round the kit again) in the 60s and 70s. I appreciate drummers like Levon and Ringo who didn’t do them.
But the drum solo was always a feature of a jazz concert too, and was usually more intricate. I did lights on Eric Delaney one summer (he was the house band for the whole show but had a short solo section) and his solo bit was Manhatten Spiritual on timpani (link to the 45 on You Tube) … he had a whole ring of them with different coloured lights in each, and that was enjoyable even with repeated exposure twice a night for two months.
Steve Gadd’s drum solo with Paul Simon linking You Can Call Me Al and Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes was a great moment in the evening, as was his drum section with James Taylor. Carl Palmer is a man who’s done a few solos in his life, but his solo with Asia is both entertaining and has a sense of humour … Mrs V said it was the only drum solo she ever enjoyed. Another one I thoroughly enjoyed is Mick Fleetwood with his electronic drum pad suit, playing with himself. Well, OK, all drum solos are playing with yourself, but Mick Fleetwood’s is playing ON himself.
Entered at Tue Sep 25 09:12:30 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
thanks for checking out my video and your nice comments.
Garth was more than capable of playing extended solos. Robbies best solos were often no more than 8 bars or so. I often think his best ones were planned and practiced in advance rather than pure improvistion. Nothing wrong with that though.
Entered at Tue Sep 25 08:35:21 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
The band didn't do many solos as we tend to think of them. Garth of course did chest fever, stage fright, etc. Robbie became a master of the understated fill. And when He did solo, he was one of the best. Rick, I think, holds a position similar to Jameson, Bruce, Entwhistle and McCartney - bass as a melody instrument... And Richards few solos are just superb. Levon... Closer to ringo than baker, (and ringo is one of the finest drummers there is.) but Levon was just fantastic. Aw man. I'm starting to sound like norm....
Entered at Tue Sep 25 05:27:37 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Kevin J1966 - RR explains economy to Bob Dylan using Percy Sledge
2012 - Louisn Vuitton does the same for Zocher
Entered at Tue Sep 25 04:16:24 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
louis vuitton handbagsLocation: california
Web: My link
Subject: louis vuitton handbags
Entered at Tue Sep 25 02:41:03 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
AdamCould be, Peter. Or maybe he meant "I've never done one [before this]". Or maybe he didn't consider it a "drum solo", as it's more of a groove/fill/interlude rather than some guy bashing and banging away for 15 minutes!
Entered at Tue Sep 25 00:42:06 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: drum solo
I recall that when Levon was asked about this, he repeated that he had never done a drum solo. I think it was created electronically from bits.
Entered at Tue Sep 25 00:38:31 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
AdamLevon's drum solo is at the end of Garth's track "Third Order" from The Sea To The North.
Entered at Tue Sep 25 00:15:13 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Dlew919Web: My link
Hey Simon, the attached link helped me a great deal. The other place is www.mandolincafe.com.
Keep me posted!
Entered at Mon Sep 24 23:05:52 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
JedSubject: Rambles 3
Please correct me if I'm wrong,but I believe Levon does very little singing on the first 2 releases from the Rambles.So,hoping this new one has some of his better and healthier efforts.Always love to hear Levon's spirit in his voice.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 22:18:28 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
ARIReally? Which song?
Entered at Mon Sep 24 22:01:36 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
AdamAri - Garth's "A Sea To The North" solo album DOES have a Levon drum solo!
Entered at Mon Sep 24 21:42:10 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
If you don't have it already you might enjoy Levon's teaching video from The Traums Homespun label
Entered at Mon Sep 24 21:30:41 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Abandoned Luncheonette
I remember the time and place. Virgin Records, Oxford Street when Mr Branson used to sell bootlegs. I was looking at Band / Dylan boots. The PA system was playing Abandoned Luncheonette, money was tight, and we walked out with the legal Hall & Oates rather than the illegal Dylan / Band (probably Mrs V's choice). Rumer had heaped praise on them.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 21:18:45 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
AriSubject: Midnight Ramble 3
I love Levon Helm so much. Someday they'll release a recording of a Levon Helm drum solo and it will blow our minds.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 20:42:13 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
Subject: Daryl Hall
I believe I posted this link a while back, but here's a clip from an old Live At Daryl's House broadcast featuring a performance of "The Weight" by Mr. Hall, John Oates, G.E. Smith & others.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 20:01:10 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
JTLocation: Toronto and Victoria
The passing of Sam ('The Record Man') Sniderman should not go unnoticed. Those of us who grew up in Toronto (or Canada - there were franchises) know the impact Sam had on the music industry in Canada. I knew him and was always welcomed over the years (even as a kid) and he was often there in the store with his brother interacting with the customers in a positive way. His knowledge of music and his impact on the Canadian music scene was great. His store was an icon for the emerging and established Canadian music scene. Memories include the midnight sale of the newest LPs from a favourite artist (.99 to 1.99) and the Boxing Day Sales when one would pick up all the LPs one missed the entire year. I heard 'Desire' by Dylan on Yonge St. in 1976 before I knew it was out (there were no easy ways in those days of knowing what was coming or when). The selection and organization of that store was wonderful and easily matched the NYC main record stores of that era. The memories are all positive. Bill M and John D and others know what I'm talking about and I'm sure will have more to add.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 19:02:08 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
AdamWeb: My link
Subject: Midnight Ramble Sessions Vol. 3 release
The third installment of Levon Helm Studios' "Midnight Ramble Sessions" series will be released November 20th. The tracks were selected by Levon himself. Click the link to hear a cover of Muddy Waters' "The Same Thing" that appears on the album!
Entered at Mon Sep 24 18:44:11 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
SimonZocker - My thoughts exactly.
Kevin - Thanks for the support mate. You're one of us.
Dlew - Tried to respond yesterday but couldn't access the GB. I think I understand a little better all that stuff about flipping/inverting the shapes and patterns one would learn on the guitar and then applying that to the mandolin. Although I still can't totally grasp the concept. But I was wondering if that applies in your case. After all, you're already upside down on the other side of the planet ;-o) [Thanks also to Rod for posting that clip]
Entered at Mon Sep 24 15:39:14 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
David PSubject: Live from Daryl's House
Daryl Hall films his music series at his $16 million estate in Amenia, NY, where he has a studio. Recently episodes have been broadcast on the Palladia HD channel.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 09:13:27 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
I'm tempted to answer, 'Yes, it's 25 or 6 to 4.'
Entered at Mon Sep 24 09:11:34 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Why BBC?
I find ITV and CH4 virtually unwatcheable because of the adverts. I found TV in hotels in the USA totally unwatcheable because of the adverts. When you get used to uninterrupted programming on BBC, you have no patience for the other. And hotels don't have HBO. I fear the internet will follow, as it's really the only way of financing stuff like YouTube.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 09:07:56 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: 57 channels and nothing on
I think we have VH1 on Freeview … I have a very restricted viewing range on TV … I never deviate beyond BBCHD, BBC1, BBC2, BBC3, BBC4 and BBC News, plus Channel 4HD. Oh, and ITV for Downton Abbey or if it's their turn for football only. It's probably because I mainly watch DVDs, either movies or if it's a long series like "Breaking Bad" it's easier off DVD than trying to remember. And we don't have Sky. Anyway, Rumer will lead me to investigate all the stuff I skip by!
Entered at Mon Sep 24 05:26:58 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Enjoy the above Link to Ralph Gleason's Rolling Stone magazine original review of The Band's great album The Band
Entered at Mon Sep 24 03:49:11 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Kevin JSome random thoughts on a Sunday night.............is anyone else with me in thinking that our late great Steve was someow behind that hidden tape of Mitt going off on the 47%.........or that our beloved Al Edge in some sort of Springsteenism high inspired that "problems" post........as a sidebar, I was, in all honesty, tickled this week to learn that a football/soccer community I just recently adopted as my own was in some important ways given long overdue peace after a 1/4 century investigation proved once again how damaging government/police ommissions and corruption can be for people's lives.
Simon & Bonk: Great to hear from both of you.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 02:52:08 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
FredSubject: What time is it Eccles?
Dlew: The song you're thinking of is "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is"
Rod: Very nice.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 02:39:12 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
dlew919Subject: Rod: great video: any chance you're heading over the dutch?
Thanks for posting that!!
Chicago: what's the one about the time? Is it 'what time is it?' Great horn line, dreadful lyrics.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 00:45:19 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
JQSubject: Darryl's House
Isn't his house in London?
Entered at Mon Sep 24 00:26:59 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Bob FLocation: Hudson Valley, NY
Web: My link
Subject: Live from Daryl's House with Rumer
Peter V, I'm not sure if your familiar with this web show from Daryl Hall's House. The show with Rumer is actually going to be on one of the VH1 stations this week. Do you get VH1 over there?
Entered at Mon Sep 24 00:07:18 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Chicago
I loved the first two albums, both doubles. Then Chicago III was the ultimate dire third album. I don't think they recovered credibility, but the first two were superb.
Entered at Mon Sep 24 00:03:28 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
I'm watching what appears to be a new or recent concert of theirs on TV. Surprisingly I knew almost every song they played. I saw them at the LA Forum in 1970 and that was my first concert in a big hall. I was totally impressed then with their distinctive power - naybe it was the horns. At the time I think they only had a couple albums out. The first, CTA was really popular with my crowd then.
And then wasn't it 30 years of insipid soft rock. Given their set list today was nearly all from that 1970 era; I wonder are they just an oldies act now? The crowd seemed to be a wide age demo.
Any knowledgeable fans here?
Entered at Sun Sep 23 23:23:41 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
AdamSubject: Ramble last Friday
The Ramble this weekend was spectacular. Among the highlights: a generous selection of Big Pink, s/t, and Stage Fright deep tracks, "Life Is A Carnival" and "When I Paint My Masterpiece", two Basement Tapes tracks, and a special encore with Sister Maud Hudson. A full review is coming!
Entered at Sun Sep 23 20:37:02 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Where the seller is partly ago, are pretty much the ultimate ratios. These families do it so that they do not wash so because of the cost of water. Accordingly, they wash their hands after using the toilet is not because they have learned at home as (to save water), which can be unhygienic in the area of food.
Although it is not allowed to control the bag for retailers, to be savored again and again.
A complaint is often not possible in spite of alleged warranty, although clearly, is that the goods are not optimal. Packaging, or the original packaging and the receipt has to be submitted. The slip is not always given. Ware is partially missing, incorrectly sorted or marked incorrectly. Bread other foods are outdated. Many things should be well done, because it's already in the store is not as fresh. Everything was more expensive. In Payback is only one cent per point. Some stores and gas stations do not take all the bottles back. Gas station is anyway no empties collection point. One can a day not in so many different stores, because it is not time
Manufacturers save probably the customers because it is not really good wool sweater. Wool sweaters and warm boots are expensive. Cotton does not keep as warm as wool.
It concerns with sweaters but mostly mixtures.
Detergents irritate too much and damage the environment, so a doctor. They are only suitable for external use.
Milder detergent, such as Baby Shampoo for adults are also better, eg if someone washes their hair every day and takes a shower. Better unless the hair and the body, as well as the clothes due to the environment can not be washed as often.
Some spray and others are dangerous
Some sprays should not be sold. They are dangerous and likely to cause polyps. Even so things like nail polish remover is dangerous. Feces and garbage. Faecal matter, especially when a lot and / or duration of these were exported to death in his mouth. Sweat of others is infectious.
Prison is madness
Time in prison does not make healthy and successful. The stay in prison should be more tolerable for the patients. It is also working without pay in principle. For someone who is not as healthy, that's problematic.
Already from the 1800's: "Spare us, O God of punishment" of a chorale, here in a version of Gröhnemeyer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-plU0fUO0pE&feature=related
Coaches are no help
While staying in hospitals, is always in individuals a supervisor ordered, which is more and more of a burden. Ultimately accepted by the courts of any statement of accounts of these workers, although most everything has deteriorated in the situation of the clients. The care does not lead to a successful life for those for whom a supervisor is appointed. Doctors give to some people from any certificate that the person is legally competent, although they would receive for the fee. Some experts argue in their scientific opinions not often nonsense. The person must now, even though he usually in a helpless position to supervise the behavior problems caregivers, so that he does not talk nonsense. A difficult and complex task, which helps no one. He is anyway already been in its history not opinion leaders, and had no influence, because otherwise it would not have been brought about Betreung. Reasons for this are poverty and coming from poor conditions. Politicians e.g. will not be disenfranchised because of their power and influence. By looking after the speech is limited. This means that the powers deteriorate even more. Why is fatal incapacitation in such circumstances. It involves a lot of money, which the maintainer wasted pointless. Charitable organizations such as the Red Cross and churches do not help.
The judges are increasingly absurd delusions.
Although the staff will be appointed against the wishes of those concerned, people are used without any income to the cost of care. The appointment of the supervisor is done against their declaration of intent. Although the supervisor, or the supervisor does nothing for those affected, it usually pays a poor woman's holiday. After the / Supervised the cost of care has not paid, the maintainer more greedy and tried as even double settle. This is me by several thousand euros per year. It is because of the tick to come permanently to the poor and the rich, such as Managers of the banks they help despite their billions Fehlinvestitonen continue.
Some social workers are in principle not active in the area of "incapacitation and guardianship" because care against the will of the person concerned violates the basic principles of social work. Basically, it's about why someone this position so readily accepts, and if it is because these people do not want anyone as a person.
Cycling should be rewarded
Some spaces, such as train stations are partly a risk to the safety of the bike. After several tire changes, as well as repair of the light is sufficient. A Selbshilfewerkstatt does not exist. The problem is that some repair shops that repair part is not good enough, such as with incorrect tire size, or uach long waits. Cheaper workshops are also outside, so that you go two hours with a flat tire. Cheaper bikes, but they are still cost 200.00 euros already Although roadworthy, but anyway not the best, even from the comfort of. An expensive can not be bought because it is yes then broke it. The wheels are many stresses by weather and bad roads. Therefore, nothing will be damaged. More should be provided for the safety of the bikes. Lockable boxes do not exist.
The cities are not cyclist-friendly overall. Biking is not rewarded, but sometimes punished by police with fines. Police and other bloke yelling misogynist out of the car. Buses and trains are often no alternative, as from 22.00 clock already been nothing moves. Cyclists are by bus and also Ausfahrer already endangered. Mayor even go so out of fear around only with a helmet. People with no income other hand, is nowhere so a helmet refunded. http://www.swex.de/news/detail.php?nr=9737
Police officers have no reason to appear in the middle of the road stopped a cyclist, so that more cars could continue for longer periods. When the cyclists were probably a pensioner who had only bought a few things, and it could not carry as much. Actually, we should in this case, yes rather someone be organized, who shops for the pensioner or his home runs, instead of having to drag himself painfully still around, but this was rejected. Instead, it was a fine imposed
It really is a presumption that the police chasing the wrong
Banks do not follow the law
Basically, it is that banks should give no information and may, because it is a violation of fundamental rights. An invasion of privacy is not allowed.
Computer does not work
Partly as the network is overloaded, in any case, there are always problems with the computer that it does not work. This concerns above all the Internet cafes, the devices are too slow there.
Weather is bad
The three were last winter with minus 20 degrees Celsius for this region too cold. It was minus 20 degrees before actually only on higher mountains, but not in the cities themselves, the municipalities and communities should now plan ahead and take better care.
Who wants to work without wages as sick yet? Most people are resistant to a job in a sheltered workshop, the so-called second Labor market. You think this is a form of oppression by the church, which would make defenseless people to a kind of slave for himself, and that would not reward you with affection. Time and again, mistreatment, addressed also performed by employees of the church, the tax money for violence would consume. This situation should be changed. Diakonia should learn how to give. For their behavior, there is no justification specifically by this religion, but the opposite is the case.
"But with the preaching alone is not enough" (Boff, 2009).
It should be done by the authorities unbureaucratic
The principle of "when in doubt, the life of" giving way to an existing since 1933 dubious killing machine with the false allegations often do not correspond to the facts. Instead of the meaning of life appear unimportant trivialities that are tracked almost pedantic to the fore.
See also this article: "The banality of evil is" http://www.freitag.de/kultur/0414-moerderportraets. People should be solved internally by the thought. Important to be that someone is healthy and less a supposedly other thing. Man is not a machine or machine. It is paid in addition no efficient help. However, some other countries also operate something like "Entmietung".
"The dismantling of the bureaucracy is particularly important for companies.
We need above all to eliminate the disastrous Innovationshemnisse as bureaucracy and overregulation. They often stifle any new approach. "(Hundt, 2010)
Rooms are basically too expensive, because there is no comfort, etc. available. They often have no oven, bathtub, washing machine, balcony or terrace and bicycle storage. Laundry is stolen from the clothesline or damaged. If a washing machine is present, e.g. Empty dirty water in a washing machine, making clothes is not clean. Mattress and base is fuck off. This is part of an insane littering. Some rooms are sold relatively soon after signing a lease at one time without the consent of the tenant. The new owner does not reflect the tenant.
Repairs are expensive, artisans, such as Flaschnereien and pipe cleaning is not reliable, and it also has a lot of them botch. Also, technicians and caretakers nerves. Part of the neighbors is partially set unsustainable and vermüllen too. You think of recycling anything and dispose of their waste expensive for others without waste separation in the waste bin. The tick of the landlord before signing a lease then Schufa information, as well as obtain a certificate from the previous tenant, he should certify that there is no debt, which goes right down to a certificate or a certificate stating that no insolvency exists, should be terminated. More ticks are also the matter of the charges, as well as illegal moderate entering the room, without having to log in to snoop around for privacy. http://de.nachrichten.yahoo.com/vermieter-erschie% C3% 9Ft-Lessor-their-friendly 144713271.html
Electricity as well as other is more expensive. Favorable course, is not to cook for hours. Finished products are therefore cheaper. Abroad has no reasonable room.
Decline in each case with the current providers such thing as "advance". Even so, things like bonus would probably not be granted. A minimum term of one year is only slightly stable conditions. Over 2000 complaints about electricity provider here in http://de.reclabox.com/beschwerden/unterkategorie/161?page=5.
No change is possible
Chronically ill with no income have so really no way health insurance, go to the bank as well, because both. Health insurance, as well as the banks take only workable salary earners For opening a bank account you also need a higher amount of cash already, otherwise they do not anymore. Even guarantees they will not accept what is present but partly not. And debtor does not.
According to the report of an ill that he was covered by health insurance only through the social security office. Insurance companies refused to insure him. The social security office in turn makes it but not in every case. Therefore, one must also pay attention already. It is already isolated cases, but is possible for chronic patients.
Many diseases are discriminated against. This is particularly for infectious diseases that are discriminated against for fear of contagion. AIDS, e.g. is ultimately quite a terrible disease, and there is no discrimination. No one is an infected person enter a place or a room.
Doctors were partially fraudsters
Some doctors had, according to one expert might purchased her Ph.D. abroad, or spied upon Lehreren documents because it was more bad with them. There were some on the black market. It lacked much in the treatments. http://de.news.yahoo.com/2/20110128/tts-anklage-gegen-falschen-notarzt-erhob-c1b2fc3.html
The fact is, yes, that doctors now become even admit that they kill. Even the Red Cross is, as the following report shows not fair. Charities, such as the Church do anything against these forms of menschenunwürdigem dying.
Shelter helps men
Facilities, such as women's shelters problematic respond to alleged contacts of women with men, and take the woman for that reason not in the shelter, although in this society anyway men live facing it as at work are not necessarily retreat as. example of the boss, or to the authorities Some of the men, the women are not secretly stalking out of the environment of the woman herself, but it is the woman herself, unknown men.
Often, however, the prosecutor dangerous men have long been known. You have for example a kind of paranoia, although this Gewaltypen who work do not nobody want. The prosecutor, as well as other authorities protect demonstrably intensive and repeat offenders, as well as psychotic milieu, although the company is not normal as such. Violence against women leads to failure
District Office does not pay housing benefit
Increasingly make Landratsämter problems with payment of costs due to illness if no income can be earned. You should then make recovery, or someone who still can work if only reduced convey a point. This whole authorities have ample opportunities. That is seized due to illness and lack of income and cleared, it interferes little. Also that the bailiff may even go too far, and more of them will be accepted, as when someone makes an application for housing benefit. You've got a warm nest in their families.
It is also about clothes and shoes, so then that a new purchase is not possible.
Health insurance pays nothing
Emergency beds in the corridor in the hospitals, queue up on the road going so currently the situation in the health sector at the weekend when the emergency services. Other areas, such as pharmacies and opticians are busy. Many doctors and hospitals are currently barely on private patients. The offices and clinics go there much for the money, even though yes even those who have a lot of money, may also get a lot of others. In modern times, to have ownership is not just luck, maybe partially improper transactions are like drug trafficking, and exploitation of others. The physicians' association gives as a reason for overcrowded clinics and hospitals grievances in a form of false CDU / CSU policy that would make their opinion more and more sick. Some of the medical profession, as well as the hospital staff are specifically against the CDU / CSU.
Much will also be treated in the treatment because of different health insurance otherwise. This gives a patient a good treatment, and others often receive nothing. Specifically with vaccinations and the treatment of the teeth is handled differently. Much in the field of treatment of the teeth is not accepted.
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/0, 1518,614949,00. html
Fees should be gone
The GEZ behaves differently from humans. Some free them without hesitation even longer by the license fee, others, they rigorously off the television and the radio. Perhaps it is but also to unequal treatment. Who for example, has a low income, has no chances for a waiver compared to a receiver Help. Actually, just this income should work will be rewarded, which is also preferred by employers, yes, but that's not the case with this operation. Criticism is also available in the program and the content, or is a lot to be critical. The GEZ refers to the legislators. It should be given by competent other models.
A town is insane
Temporarily I just logged into my then living parents. Then I logged out of the city again, the parents are now deceased, with nearly 80 years of age found both, and it lives there someone else. Although the whole thing is over ten years since the administration is repeated after ten years to me. For the second time now, the city turns to me and says I am registered there yet, which is not true, because I am notified otherwise and I have not entered a second home.
Double secret church tax
The Church receives annually since the war in addition to the church tax € 460 million for alleged secularization of the state and thus in turn the taxpayer. Moreover, all accommodations are paid in their homes by the residents themselves, or by the county.
Also sustains the Church every Sunday offering money, as other donations. The alleged help of the Church comes from the person to not, some die at a young age.
Criticism mounted e.g. at backward exorcisms.
Entered at Sun Sep 23 19:25:37 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
JoanSubject: Names and faces
Nice work Rod. I was about to say the same thing as Peter but he beat me to it. It is nice to have a "face"with the name.It is kind of interesting to communicate with people and you have no idea what they look like. Face Book has opened some mysteries, but most of us are "anonymous"
Entered at Sun Sep 23 11:25:50 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VNice to put a face and voice to the name! Thanks, Rod.
Entered at Sun Sep 23 09:59:14 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Web: My link
dlew919, I think it was Levon himself who said that if the piano was the king of instruments then the mandolin was the queen. This is a clip of me with my Washburn M7 (and my brothers)at the Wellington Bluegrass Society.
Entered at Sun Sep 23 05:22:54 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
dlew919Subject: Simon: just one or two more things...
Email me dlewis at aim dot edu dot au when and if you are ready to pick one up: happy to help, and even if you want some advice as to what one to buy...
Entered at Sun Sep 23 04:56:00 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Can fully recoommend mando as an instrument: it's a bit of getting your head around: for the first three frets or so it's guitar upside down, then it gets complicated. But, because it is more 'vertical' than a guitar but as 'horizontal' as a guitar, a lot of music theory starts to make a whole lot more sense (if you don't play keys terribly well, that is...)
I know have 2 main mandos, an acoustic (with a pickup) made by Korean company Crafter and a beautiful JBovier ELS solidbody. Most recently I just purchased a Telecaster, so my head's been in guitar a little bit... BUt I still love the mandolin.
Entered at Sat Sep 22 19:21:00 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
SimonI know what you mean, Dlew. I always liked 'There's an angel on my shoulder/In my hand a sword of gold.' But I've even read comments on here from some who find parts of Jemima Surrender distasteful. That's one of my favourites and it's hard to think of it as anything other than playful.
btw how's the mandolin coming along? Does the way it's tuned in fifths mean you've got to rethink all you've learned before on the guitar? I'd like to get one at some point.
Entered at Sat Sep 22 08:21:30 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
dlew919Subject: Simon... witthout delving into the inappropriate...
Because I don't want to know the details, but I suspect you get 'further on down the road', as it were (ahem) wiht lyrics like 'ain't no companion like a blue eyed Merle', than 'AH'M GONNA GIVE YOO EVR'Y INCH OF MAAAH LO-URVE!' ... ;) (Just having some fun... )
Entered at Sat Sep 22 04:54:22 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
BONKLocation: SaltSpring Island/Cabbagetown
Subject: JT and LvdB
I think most people missed your question of thoughts on the subject. Either that or they're having a hard time like I am, answering and putting it down to paper. I'm working on it but I'm tempted to just say screw it and say I liked the Album. But that wouldn't be right so give me a little time.
Entered at Sat Sep 22 04:42:46 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
BONKLocation: SaltSpring Island/Cabbagetown
Subject: Kevin J
OK. After waiting for someone to jump in and start singing I had a big ole start singing at the top of my lungs all by myself. Thank you Kevin. I needed that!
Entered at Sat Sep 22 02:16:17 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
SimonWeb: My link
Subject: Louie Louie
Thanks for that Going to California clip, Kevin. Here's Led Zep's cover of Louie Louie (link). The thing about these lists ... I find it hard to care. There'll be another one along shortly. Zep's advantage over the likes of the first King Crimson album is that women actually like them. Led Zep could be the soundtrack to doin' the do, unlike a lot of prog stuff. I find the LZ albums actually sound even better as time goes by. And a good compilation is still the perfect accompaniment to a bit of youknowwhat.
Entered at Sat Sep 22 01:01:19 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Encore of link to the mighty Zep's secret weapon. They really were a great band.....funny enough I hardly ever listen to them anymore but they were the soundtrack to those great basement parties in high school.
Entered at Sat Sep 22 00:40:52 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Dlew919Subject: Top 10s
I very much like liege and life, but only until sandy Denny's voice wears thin... It is amazing how those key years, 1968-1972 have lasted. I like zep,but listening to early Jeff beck group, I can start to see why page gets a lot of criticism...
Entered at Sat Sep 22 00:32:02 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Kevin JCCR's Greatest Hits - two discs to boot - is actually quite staggering and along with Bob Marley's has the impressive distinction of being in just about every bar in every part of every country I have ever traveled to.....all over the world.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 23:52:22 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Bill MI always liked Boz's disco-era hits, but not as much as "Dynaflow", which is the one that I heard first. As for Moby Grape, I'm a fan. Stylistically as well as preferentially I'd park them between the Move and the Band. I stress that I'm parking uphill.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 23:45:52 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Brien SzI'm with you Peter V, saw Moby Grape (or some incantation of it) once a ways back...didn't see it or hear it. CCR Greatest hits is about all you need. As for bands putting out 2 or three a year...amazing how times change and how albums get milked forever. If an artist can score a few hits off one album, they can milk that for two or three years before having to come up with anything.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 23:14:35 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
John DSubject: Boz
"I'll Be Long Gone and Loan Me A Dime" from the first album; on Atlantic. Still does it for me.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 23:07:53 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Kevin JGee...thanks JQ...I've now got Boz Skagg's "Lowdown" running through my head and I can't shake it.....actually a pretty good song.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 22:32:23 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VCreedence … listened to them a lot at the time, but in retrospect (like The Who) I'd prefer a compilation of the singles.
I tried with Moby Grape, but i never got the point. Don't know why!
Entered at Fri Sep 21 22:19:16 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VI picked up California Bloodlines about a month ago … I never knew it at the time.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 21:21:07 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Bill MDavid P and Peter V: Umm, do you mind if I plump for Fairport's "Summer Holidays" LP, which I find wears better. For some reason, whenever I ask myself what "Dr Lacey" sounds like, what comes out is "Please Mrs Henry". Maybe they knew each other?
Entered at Fri Sep 21 21:15:51 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
JQSubject: Boz Scaggs
David P - I go back to that album regularly. I suspect a lot of folks were introduced to Boz S in his disco era. That first one could be described as largely a country record.
I like the whole album but have run out of patience with Duane's repetitive
lead on Loan Me A Dime; still though a nice, rocking arrangement otherwise.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 19:36:16 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
Subject: Vinyl Siding: 1969
Creedence Clearwater Revival also released three albums in 1969, BAYOU COUNTRY, GREEN RIVER and WILLY & THE POOR BOYS. The Byrds were productive with both DR. BYRDS & MR. HYDE and BALLAD OF EASY RIDER, featuring their new line-up with Clarence White. Some favorites of mine from '69 in addition to The Brown Album:
A SALTY DOG -- Procol Harum
Entered at Fri Sep 21 19:21:08 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
SimonSubject: For Al Edge
Al - Sorry about not responding a while back. There's been too much to take in during the last ten days or so. Doubt it'll mean much to others on the GB but it's a-comin, a brand new day. Oh and fuck MacKenzie, Middup, Patnick, Bettison and all the rest of that shower.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 18:29:20 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Unhalfbricking
I think you're right, David. I'll switch to "Unhalfbricking."
New releases from Ace include "Handy Man: The Otis Blackwell Songbook" in the Songwriters series. Another immaculately remastered CD of stuff that's rare and expensive on 45.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 18:01:24 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
David PSubject: Fairport Convention
Peter V: Amazingly Fairport Convention released two other fine albums earlier in 1969, "What We Did On Our Holidays" (retitled "Fairport Convention" on A&M in U.S.) in Jan. and "Unhalfbricking" in July. Of the three, my favorite is "Unhalfbricking". All three were reissued on LP recently by the 4 Men With Beards label.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 17:58:57 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
sadavidWeb: My link
Subject: Neil Young stays busy
Longish _New York Times Magazine_ article . . . Neil discusses his autobio, the Pono proprietary audio format - and sobriety.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 17:15:40 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: 1969 Top Ten
There are four essential albums on that list … Abbey Road, Let It Bleed, The Band and the third Velvet Underground.
After that I'd argue. Personally both Led Zeppelin would go straight away … I know people think they're one of the three greatest British bands, but not for me. And why two albums?
The Who? Not Tommy for me. It would have to be Meaty, Beaty, Big & Bouncy a few years later, compiling all the singles.
Trout Mask Replica? No. Critics choice stuff. Unlistenable if you're being honest.
The Court of the Crimson King? Yes, probably (though as most come from my area I'm biased). Five Leaves Left? A posthumous masterpiece. It definitely wasn't thought so at the time, and Cat Stevens had better tunes.
The year saw classics like The White Album, Beggar's Banquet and Bookends still in the chart. But they're 1968. So, my five 1969 release replacements …
Volunteers - Jefferson Airplane
From Elvis in Memphis - Elvis Presley
Hot Rats - Frank Zappa (blows Led Zep away).
Liege and Leaf - Fairport Convention (directly replacing Nick Drake).
Family Entertainment - Family OR Spooky Two- Spooky Tooth (can't decide)
Another contender is Chicago Transit Authority, the first Chicago album. In retrospect, they blotted their copybook from Chicago III on, but at the time (which is important), me and everyone I knew was raving about that first album.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 16:50:58 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Subject: One of many lists
I sometimes wonder whether it is all Joan Baez's fault.......quite an achievement to lighten up a true masterpiece
Entered at Fri Sep 21 16:08:00 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
David PSubject: Vinyl Siding: A Half-Dozen from 1968
In addition to the new Mobile Fidelity LP reissue of MUSIC FROM BIG PINK, I've recently been listening to some other gems from 1968.
THE FANTASTIC EXPEDITION OF DILLARD & CLARK -- Gene Clark & Doug Dillard
Entered at Fri Sep 21 15:50:51 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Bill MWeb: My link
Subject: tuba music
If you liked the "Deliverance" soundtrack, you'll love this.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 14:45:32 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Tuba
Taj Mahal? That's a great live album.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 13:53:29 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
I knew you knew the reference as you have also directedit, minus most of Act II as I recall.
Forget about the use of country instruments, how many other "rock/country rock/ anybody" groups used the tuba so prominently in their recordings? for that alone, they merit attention.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 13:04:58 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Subject: The weight unweighted
Better have Aretha Franklin (with Duane Allman) while we're about it. Interesting how both Ross and Aretha's versions sit on a bass riff rather than the drums.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 13:02:03 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Subject: Weight archaeology
While we're about it, we might as well hear Diana Ross, The Supremes & The Temptations version.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 12:59:13 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
I’m always wary of claiming something as a first, because you can find roots and seeds. MFBP was released about ten weeks before Sweetheart of The Rodeo, another claimant in rock Americana, and you can find earlier Byrds tracks pointing in that direction. But The Dillards and The Byrds largely used recognised country instruments. There’s nothing like Chest Fever, and the Band’s use of piano, organ and a drummer with huge impact (rather than a snare drum tapper) was part of the amalgam. That’s why I’d say it drew on country antecedents, but wasn’t country … with The Byrds and Dillards the line from country (and folk, remembering Byrds covers like Turn Turn Turn and Wild Mountain Thyme and Bells of Rhymney) was way stronger.
Also, don’t forget that the people who covered The Weight … Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, The Staple Singers … all saw soul in it. But The Weight was also covered by Jackie De Shannon, who was coming from pop, and Spooky Tooth who were prog (but really proto-heavy metal).
So the link is Jackie de Shannon doing The Weight. It seems Barry White sang the chorus (she is miming.) She does ‘Do me a favour, hon’. It’s an interesting version with all the seductive bits. I’m not sure how they fit, but definitely appealing.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 12:49:14 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
SolomonSubject: The Band
The question should be is it a rock album? The album does get in to many rock lists. However, I've never seen it in any top ten. I think it's too country to be considered a true rock album by many.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 05:21:11 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0I do not wish Happy Birthday to dead people on the internet or anywhere else. I also rarely wish Happy Birthday to anyone still alive on The GB.I imagine I may have made execptions for Garth and Levon (while he was alive), and maybe RR as wel).
Today's birthday celebrant, is not someone who may read this, so it is sort of pointless to wish her Happy birthday here. However, i still find myself wishing a Happy Birthday to Sophia Loren, who is 78 years beautiful today. And I request that you each take a a few moments, to reflect upon Sophia's contributions, and salute her beauty, class, grace, and talent.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 02:57:06 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Subject: Brown / The Band
My unedited, unconsidered, unsubstantiated, and irrevocable opinion is that The Band album is not just one of the top 5 rock albums ever, it deserves inclusion as one of the masterpieces and great advances of all time. The Brown Album deserves inclusion in that category of art and accomplsihment reserved for the Mona Lisa,the Ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, the invention of the steam engine, and, the invention of the telephone and the typewriter, anbd , of course, the development of the birth control pill. And there's no debatin' that.
Entered at Fri Sep 21 01:19:58 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
JT and LvdBLocation: Victoria and Toronto intermittently
Subject: On reflection...
On reflection on the music of The Band, circa 1967, the world had never seen the likes of them or of their music on a wide scale before. Sure, there was some Americana in The Dillards and very few others, but the kind of evocative presentation and pure joy evident on MFBP and its follow up were BRAND NEW and the pop world needed time to warm up to it, I think now that I am thinking. I'd like to hear some other views on this point of view. As I think about CSNY or Neil Young or Leonard Cohen or others of that time, there is nothing quite like this Band. They remain unique in many ways.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 23:34:20 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VLandmark, that exchange comes from "The Ruling Class" by Peter Barnes, a stage play later made unto a film starring Peter O'Toole.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 23:29:00 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Kevin JSubject: Brien SZ
Bingo about the constant touring - it does pay off and I imagine Matthews supports a large group of players and families and that is to be very much admired to be sure.......odd though about your assessment of HTBC - it really does have much variety.....the openning rocker "Straight Down the Line" to the euro grove of "He don't Live Here", the ballads like "She Not Mine", the instrumentals and the out and our weirdness of the title track......for sameness do check out Temptest.....
Entered at Thu Sep 20 22:39:23 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Brien SzMaybe one the reasons Dave Matthews has so much success is because he constantly tours and his concerts aren't the same sets. I purchased his latest and it isn't his best effort, though Mercy is brilliant. I purchased RR's Clairvoyant and where I enjoyed it in the beginning it has fallen into the forgotten file. It has a sameness to it that unfortunatley borders on the bland. I listen to Native and Redboy far more than any of his other outings.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 22:15:35 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Definitely the top five.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 22:04:15 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Kevin J...Interesting to look at the Billboard chart history.....Rod Stewart went top 20 with RR's "Broken Arrow".......but in terms of chart success, "How to Become Clairvoyant" has been RR's most successful release.......that makes sense as it keeps getting better to my ears but the great "Music for Native Americans" didn't have any type of chart success.....meanwhile the vanilla Dave matthews is on top of the charts again......some guys have all the luck..
Entered at Thu Sep 20 21:36:02 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
David PMFBP no doubt received a boost in sales with the release of Capitol's remastered & expanded CD version in 2000.
As a songwriter, Robbie did reach the top 5 charts with Joan Baez's cover of TNTDODD and Three Dog Night's version of "Chest Fever", which was piggy-backed as the B-side of their hit cover of Nilsson's "One".
Entered at Thu Sep 20 21:31:26 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Then again Peter, a favourite exchange of ours:
Q: How do you know you're God?
A: When I pray, I feel like I am talking to myself.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 21:25:41 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Uncomfortably numb
From today's play (Stepping Out by Richard Harris)
A: Is it numb?
B: I don't know, I can't feel it.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 21:24:13 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Kevin JSubject: L. Cohen and The Band
"I saw a beggar leaning on his wooden crutch, / He said to me, "You must not ask for so much./ And a pretty woman leaning in her darkened door,/ She cried to me, "Hey, why not ask for more?"
......keep asking for more Adam......but modest sales were not surpising for Big Pink, the outrage is that the 2nd album is not ranked consistently in the top 5 of all-time rock records by everyone.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 21:01:52 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Bill MAdam: At it's very best, the world is comfortably numb (to recycle a phrase). Ask more of it and you're bound to be disappointed.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 20:48:21 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
AdamThat is mind boggling. What is wrong with the world? Greatest debut album of all time.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 20:35:50 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
David PSubject: From Pink to Gold
Music From Big Pink didn't receive gold certification (500,000 sales) until 2001, 33 years after its release.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 19:48:40 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
JT and LvdBLocation: Victoria and Toronto intermittently
I did not know that The Weight did not chart well nor that Music From Big Pink did so poorly (relatively speaking) during its inauguration to the public. Some one should do some research and document all the 'classics' which were not received well by the public (when primary sales are taken into consideration).
Entered at Thu Sep 20 19:03:13 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
Subject: Comfortably Numb
Another clip from The Wall Live in Berlin, with Roger, Van, Levon & Rick, et al. Martin Scorsese later used the song in the soundtrack for "The Departed" in an steamy scene with Leonardo DiCaprio and Vera Farmiga.
Entered at Thu Sep 20 12:21:05 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Subject: Roger Waters
Wish You Were Here is one of my favorite songs and will be a great song to close the show.
Entered at Wed Sep 19 22:41:47 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
rosalindCan't you just imagine Levon having a conversation with HIS mother and sayin' stuff to her like "Mother do you think they'll break my balls?" Yeah, I'm sure Mrs Helm would've directed Lavon out back behind the shed for Mr Diamond to wallop him a good few times for talking dirty to his mother.
Entered at Wed Sep 19 22:27:57 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
rosalindIt was nice when Waters had The Band join him on that Wall thingy. The exposure was good for them but that song they worked out and agreed to have them sing behind went against all basic instinct of The Band's entire language. Yeah, we know.. little Rogie's screwed up because Mommie was too invasive and possessive and overheard him playing pocketpool and Daddy went away and blah blah blah.. Candy-ass bullshit. The whole if you're screwed up it's always somebody else's fault is everything the Band hated, wasn't it? Isn't it?
Entered at Wed Sep 19 21:47:59 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Subject: Mother so Beautiful
See link to the last great performance by the lady with no hair......what a support group she had!
Entered at Wed Sep 19 21:13:04 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
jhRoger Waters(!) has been added to the line-up for the Love For Levon concert, October 3rd at the IZOC Center
Entered at Wed Sep 19 20:33:43 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Peter V… and if you follow the link to the article, that's exactly what it says.
Entered at Wed Sep 19 20:28:49 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
SolomonSubject: Crazy Chester
I think Levon stated clearly who he was in his book.
Entered at Wed Sep 19 19:47:40 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
jhWeb: My link
Subject: "So, who was Crazy Chester?"
Daily Mail scan (link above)
Entered at Wed Sep 19 19:36:36 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
JoanJeff, I like your "Walmart greeter" description of Rick
Entered at Wed Sep 19 19:08:17 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0I need an editor.That should have been - is not only stopped by death.
Maybe Sebastian and I can get a group rate.
Entered at Wed Sep 19 18:59:48 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Thanks for the heads up Bill. Will keep my eyes open for it.
Entered at Wed Sep 19 16:30:51 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Adam,Garth never stopped playing Band material.No matter whom he was playing with. His duo shows with Maud always contained heavy doses of uniquely performed Band material. It's a personal choice, but RR is the only Band member whose desire to perform live, and feel the fans, can only be stopped by death.
Garth - always looking to play, even just walking in to a Bush Brothers gig in the High falls Cafe.
Garth Rick,Richard, an accurately descriptive word is accessible- in a very rare way.Like the old blues musicians- accessible. Of the people. Levon, a little bit, ya had to have an in first.... But when it came to accessibility. Rick was the epitome. Rick was the Band equivalent of the Walmart Greeter.
Entered at Wed Sep 19 15:41:31 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Bill MLandmark: In Chapters yesterday I noticed that "Bass Player" (or similar) magazine had a feature story on session bassist Carol Kaye. You'll be delighted to know that among the top ten session highlights in a sidebar to the article is "When I Die" by Motherlode. As you can imagine, it's in outstanding company - and deservedly. She kept up with the guys in the group after they broke up, so it seems likely that she helped introduce singer-organist William 'Smitty' Smith to LA session circles - though of course he had more than enough talent to justify his success.
Entered at Wed Sep 19 14:52:14 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Daily Mail
The mass-market Daily Mail has a daily general knowledge questions page, where people pose questions and readers submit answers. Today it has a picture of The Band and the headline "So, who was Crazy Chester?" followed by the answer about the characters in The Weight from David Waterman. A huge surprise to see The Band featured prominently between murders and football, and that they assume enough people are interested in the answer! Have sent a scan to Jan.
Very positive reviews of Rickie Lee Jones stripped down version of The Weight too this week.
Entered at Wed Sep 19 14:48:39 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: The Crackers
From an article on The Merseys (Record Collector, October 2012)
"In 1969, The Merseybeats or Merseys, by now rudderless made a single as The Crackers. "The Blue Jeans and The searchers had changed their names for singles," says Billy Kinsley, "and by then I was into Bob Dylan and The Band, and The Band's original name was The Crackers. I played bass on Honey Do; it was one of my first heavy bass lines. It was a mistake to call ourselves The Crackers - but we were told Liverpool was passé."
Honey Do (on Fontana) is valued at £12 in Rare Record Guide.
Entered at Wed Sep 19 08:08:16 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
AdamSubject: Garth with Gent Treadly last week
I did not attend, but I read some accounts of Garth's recent gig guesting with the group Gent Treadly. They played two shows last weekend. At the Sterling NY show, Band classics were played ("Don't Do It", "The Weight", "Chest Fever", "Up On Cripple Creek", "Look Out Cleveland", and "When I Paint My Masterpiece"). They also covered "Like A Rolling Stone", and two Beatles songs: "Norwegian Wood" and "Dear Prudence".
It's clear now that Garth will be the only remaining, original member of The Band still out playing the material. We really are blessed!
Entered at Wed Sep 19 06:32:06 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Subject: Oh Mercy rather than "Time Out Of Mind" I meant - for anyone who cares
Entered at Wed Sep 19 00:58:56 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Kevin JWeb: My link
Subject: A favorite Dylan song - one of many
Link to some thoughts on what Rockn Chair was wondering about......
Entered at Tue Sep 18 23:02:16 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Kevin JBob Dylan: Off the top, I was on the phone at 10:00am sharp Saturday to purchase tickets for his November 14 date at the Air Canada Centre in Toronto.........Woke up Sunday and realized that I would likely be in Montreal Wednesday through Saturday of that week - ah what to do? Well, I contacted Stubhub and purchased two tickets for the Friday November 16 show at the Bell Centre...............Venues are very important when seeing Dylan........the smaller AHL type hockey arenas were much better than the larger NHL ones....but since he is playing these large halls now and has been for a number of years, getting tickets in stands ( off the floor ) but close to the stage seems to be the best way to maximize enjoyment....done in both cities...
Temptest: I was suspicious from the moment I started hearing the buzz as I have almost always found an inverse relationship between mainstream hype and and my enjoyment of Dylan's work.......two exceptions to this would be "Love and Theft" and his book "Chronicles".......both were enthusiastically reviewed by most and both lived up to that - and then some - for me.......................... a good example of what I am referring to would be "Time out of Mind" and even the next Lanois produced album......Everyone and I mean everyone from know nothing DJ/VJ's to the rock critic cognescenti went ga ga over these releases.....I was underwhelmed then and to this day rarely give either a spin..............After 10-12 listens to Temptest, I would say the almost across the board 5 star reviews it has generated is a massive exageration.................."Duquesne Whistle" and "Pay in Blood" I enjoy very much as songs but much of the rest will be forgetable for me........While Temptest does not have the number of out and out clunkers that "Together Through Life" has - nor does it have, in my opinion, the combined excellence of words and music that the the best 4 or 5 songs on "Together Through Life" has..........and it doesn't hold a candle to the true masterpiece of "Love and Theft"....in fact I am not sure it is even in the same league as "left-over Love and Theft" otherwise known as "Modern Times".............Hell....even "Knocked out Loaded" had the great "Brownsville Girl"........everytime I get to the song Titanic/Temptest......I keep thinking that Bob should have been capable - if any one in the industry could have been - of approaching the majesty of "The Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald" but alas no. Far from it.....Oh but how the ctitics love the mention of Leo...................
JT: I also look forward to a sprinking of new songs in concert and have long maintained that he and his band should not play anything pre 1998 in main concerts - allowing for "Like a Rolling Stone", "All Along the Watchtower" and "Blown inthe Wind" ( current closer ) for encores to keep the really old and really young happy. Last show at ACC - right beside us sat a mother with her 13-14 year old son.........he sat there sullen the whole show and she kept asking me if I was sure "Watchtower" would be played.....In the encore I explained......when it was the kid went nuts.....air guitar, quasi headbanging and all.
Bill M: Thank you for the kind words. Honest to God, I have driven by Cobourg probably 20 times since you mentioned this and often thought about pulling in but never did...........one of these days I will follow-up on a tip of yours.......they are always good ones.
Entered at Tue Sep 18 22:12:17 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: "Patron"
I don't know of that in music in the UK, Joan, but it's standard for theatre. Unless you're "a member" you're not going to get reasonable seats (or maybe any seats) for Royal Shakespeare Company or National Theatre.
Entered at Tue Sep 18 22:08:44 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VMrs V accompanies me to nearly all concerts. She hates 'standing only' but for Simone Felice last week we got right up next to the stage so could see in spite of standing. Anyway, Felice works very hard on his show.
Entered at Tue Sep 18 21:56:31 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
AdamJohn D - Thank you so much for your compliments on my Garth article! It really means so much to hear that people enjoyed it. Thanks everyone!
About me: I AM a young musician/writer from Chicago IL. I'm 23 years old. Just getting started with playing music locally, as well as writing. I've been blessed with some amazing concert experiences. I've seen the Levon Helm Band about 7 times, and Garth 3 times so far. I attended Garth & Levon's final Ramble together in January, and wrote about the experience. That was my first time writing about music like that, and I've been continuing ever since!
Entered at Tue Sep 18 20:44:10 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
John DWhatever happened to BEG? Is she on sabbatical?
Entered at Tue Sep 18 20:01:26 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
The local venue has Nick Lowe in October, however by the time they posted the concert they were sold out. They let "patrons" have first crack. I suppose I'm going to have to cough up the money to become a "Patron" I missed Garland Jeffries last year same reason
Entered at Tue Sep 18 19:43:25 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
RogerLocation: Birmingham UK
Subject: Upcoming concerts
My list: The Waifs
Mark Knopfler (touring next year)
Ollabelle - or Amy Helm's Band - not sure whether Ollabelle continues
Joni Mitchell (probably falls into the impossible category)
I'm looking for Civil Wars tickets - hadn't realised they're touring...
Entered at Tue Sep 18 17:59:56 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Bob F.Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Subject: Fall Concerts
Peter V, it's funny you mentioned fall concerts today. My wife's all time favorite performer is Mike Scott from The Waterboys. She's been a huge fan since their first record and whenever they come to America we have to go see them. The past few years they haven't performed here except for a guest performance Mike Scott did last winter with John Wesley Harding at City Winery. Yes we were there! Yesterday it was announced that Mike Scott would be doing a reading from his new book 'Adventures of a Waterboy' at a small hall in New York City called Rockwood Music Hall and after the reading he would be performing with Steve Wickham. Tickets went on sale at 11 this morning. Before my wife went to work this morning I was given detailed instructions on purchasing the tickets. Thankfully I was able to purchase them with no hitch. lol Now she will not listen to anything but the Waterboys until the show! Locally we have a good lineup for the fall, Profesor Louie and The Crowmatix with John Platania sitting in, Steve Earle, Bela Fleck, Graham Parker with The Rumour, David Johanson. There are a lot of great shows in the NYC but less and less do we have the energy or desire to make the trip. I guess that is just part of getting old. Plus with the New York Yankees in this great pennant race it takes a lot to get me out of the house!
Entered at Tue Sep 18 16:10:49 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Rockin ChairLocation: Pacific Northwest
Web: My link
Subject: Leanin on the Window sill
Vintage Dylan.......I guess you would class me as a moderate fan. I respect and appreciate much of what he has done. Really enjoy the "Long Road Home"
However, there is much he has done I can take or leave. If it was close and very handy I'd probably go to his concert. I'll probably get around to hearing some of his latest.
I put up a link here to a live performance of It takes a lot to laugh.......... probably my favourite Dylan song, it doesn't seem to want to work. I've never heard any of you guys name a favourite.
I'm away today on the Rockin Chair for Port Hardy. Susan is bringing up the truck. We are having the Port Alice house renovated. Susan and I have to go and paint the whole interior. The tenants we had to evict after a few years, left an unbelievable mess......oh well.
Entered at Tue Sep 18 14:38:36 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
John DSubject: JT
I can put it in a nutshell. Ala asked me if I was going to the concert. Before I could answer , she sees the ad; with MK on the bill. Now she was interested. To see him would be great for her. If it were up to her, she would leave at halftime. She is more in love with my love for Bob's music; than the man himself. Not to start another thread; but in the end it all comes down to personal taste.
Entered at Tue Sep 18 14:11:44 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
JT and LvdBLocation: Toronto and Victoria
Subject: Mark and Bob interests; some comments
John D: An interesting question brought me to writing. L and I both love Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler's recent work. As you know, I have admired Bob Dylan for many decades. L really likes Bob's first 2 decades on record and still enjoys the recordings (Tempest etc) However, without Mark, I don't think she would much want to go to the Vancouver Dylan show coming up. (its the voice that is grating live but is OK on record) With Mark, she is definitely going. So there you have it. I too got my interest piqued by the new record. I want to hear some of these songs presented live. Bob's voice does go through changes but the songs seem to succeed well partly because of the way they are sung. I continue to go because 'the NeverEnding Tour' has to eventually end and I want to be there when it does.
Entered at Tue Sep 18 14:02:55 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
John DSubject: Adam
Adam? Unless I missed it, we really don't know much about you. Are you a young writer? I see your going to the barn. Do you live in that area of the U.S.? Just curious. Great article by the way. I've interviewed Band members over the years and am always interested in new interviews. You really brought Garth out.
Entered at Tue Sep 18 13:57:17 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
John DSubject: Peter V
Just wondering Peter. Does Mrs. V share your live concert purchases?
Entered at Tue Sep 18 13:11:29 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
AdamSubject: Garth Ramble
I will be attending the Ramble with Garth this weekend. Billed as "A Celebration Of Richard, Rick & Levon". The setlist from last month was just unbelievable. This promises to be a dream set of Band rarities and classics!
Entered at Tue Sep 18 12:56:13 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
dlew919Subject: band visits?
I'd love Garth's show with Vivino, Weider, Ciarlante and Isaacs to come here to Sydney, actually...
Entered at Tue Sep 18 09:07:13 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Wish list
I was looking at the various Autumn listings for live shows. I have three lots of tickets so far between now and Christmas, The Civil Wars, The Mastersons and Asia. So I was reading the ads thinking who I'd like to see but who's not advertised. Anyone else want to add lists? No fantasy ones (Eddie Cochran or Robbie & Garth together) but actual existing touring acts you hope will come your way.
My list today:
The Avett Brothers … I don't think they've been to the UK.
The Silver Seas … they have, but I missed them.
Sugarland … I don't think they've done concerts in the UK, just TV. I missed them by a day in Las Vegas. They played the evening of the day we left.
Rumer … quite likely, I would have thought. Probably hard to get tickets unless you're fast.
Simone Felice … he's here now, and I saw him, but he seems to come back twice a year.
Entered at Tue Sep 18 04:07:25 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Norm! I was afraid you drowned or fucked yourself to deaf or something.Nice to see you are still kickin and still ain't rehabibitulatated your miserable old self!Welcome back aboard fucko! Excuse me, that's Captain Fucko!and there is no debatin bout that!
Ahoy Mates! Captain Fucko has regained control of the ship! Correct thine fucking selves!
Entered at Tue Sep 18 03:59:56 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Many years ago, in the 80s, in the Lone Star Cafe, on the upper level, I was bullshitting with a drummer.It wasn't Levon, but Levon was in the room. A young woman with gargantuan mammary glands zeroed in, and i cleared out politely and efficiently. Figured she was there for the drummer.Later on, he and I crossed paths, And i mentioned i cleared out fast as i could, give ya little room, the drummer smiled and said,"That was too much tit for me."....It takes all kinds :-)
Entered at Tue Sep 18 02:43:20 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
BONKLocation: SaltSpring Island/Cabbagetown
No Norm. She said 40DD. But...oh never mind.
Entered at Tue Sep 18 01:16:32 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Rockin ChairLocation: Pacific Northwest
Subject: Aw Hell!
I just meant.....WOW...they gotta be big....sigh....I can only dream.......
Entered at Tue Sep 18 01:04:32 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
RosalindLocation: room 2046
why would I wanna cut one off? I hope I never have to get one cut off. that's bad. I already tip over backwards.. and forwards and sometimes even sideways. I been blaming it on high blood pressure..
Entered at Tue Sep 18 00:08:34 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Rockin ChairLocation: Pacific Northwest
Holy Smoke!! If you cut one of those bad boys off......y'd tip over backwards!
Entered at Mon Sep 17 21:54:34 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
JQSubject: Allman Brothers
David P - Those are nice shots. The 1 hip FM station in LA then (KPPC) played "Midnight Rider" sometimes but I didn't really get them until their Live AFE record came around, in spring of 1971 I think. That record just knocked me out - I had been a fan of Cream's live, long jams. So the AB's long jams were right up my alley.
I haven't been able to hack live Cream for a long time but I will go back to LAFE sometimes.
Entered at Mon Sep 17 20:20:37 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
RosalindNo RockinChair, I am now fat. Like any other female of 54 I am fat. I have had to increase all the sizes on my clothes. I now wear a 40 DD
Entered at Mon Sep 17 19:49:50 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Rockin ChairLocation: Pacific Northwest
It amazes me that anyone bothers to respond to this Jeff character's moronic babbling. In his words, the only one who has the "facts" straight is himself. I would guess he's probably the biggest single reason many don't bother to post any more. Really too bad he couldn't even spell or type well enough to communicate functionally.
Hey Carl! I didn't get a chance to get down to see you guys when I wanted. My brother in law has cancer, and probably won't make it much longer. I had a chance to take him on a little cruise and light up his face a little. It was well worth it. He is a really good guy.
Roz!! you sweet young thing! Still got your young girl figure?? Don't worry about this North West Coaster guy. He is an imposter. I had to take the chance to change my handle just so I'm not associated with that name.
I refuse to make any comment about this subject that has been beat to death.........sad
Entered at Mon Sep 17 19:33:41 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
Bill M: I first became aware of the Allman Brothers Band in May 1969 when I saw them playing in Piedmont Park in Atlanta (see link). They used to drive up from Macon regularly to play free concerts in the park on weekends. When Ronnie Hawkins' Cotillion album was released one of the FM stations here would play both "Down in the Alley" and "Matchbox".
Entered at Mon Sep 17 18:46:48 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Bill MWeb: My link
David P: Thanks for posting that Hawkins number. A livelier song from the same album is "Matchbox" - see link - where Hawkins calls for solos by, first, "Eddie" (Hinton) and, second, "Skydog" (Allman). Then Richard 'King Biscuit Boy' Newell comes in on harp, and ramps up most impressively. Piano by Scott Cushnie, back with Hawkins after almost 10 years - the first stint having been in early 1960, when he pushed Hawkins to hire Robbie as bassist, to replace the departing Lefty Evans. Bass and drums by David Hood and Roger Hawkins. If you type "Ronnie Hawkins Matchbox" in the Youtube search you'll also get the powerful and focused early '60s version with Robbie, Rick and Levon.
Jerry T: Nice work on pulling together all the inputs on the concert listing.
Kevin J: Nice to see you back posting. FYI, that record store on the main drag in Cobourg seems to have vamoosed - though maybe just to a cheaper location around the corner or something. In any event, I hope you were able to pop by for the "Rolling Stone" with the Band article I mentioned last year.
Entered at Mon Sep 17 18:17:07 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
Subject: The Weight
Rickie Lee Jones is the latest artist to cover "The Weight". Her version is included on her new album "The Devil You Know" (Concord Music), produced by Ben Harper, set for release tomorrow.
Duane Allman's slide guitar was prominently featured on two versions of "The Weight", King Curtis' instrumental and Aretha Franklin's, both recorded within a week of each other in January 1969. Later that year in September, Duane recorded with Ronnie Hawkins in Muscle Shoals (see link).
Entered at Sun Sep 16 21:43:01 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
I think the Sid Griffin lecture on the Basement Tapes is great if you can ever get to hear it.
I like this from his book, Million Dollar Bash. 'This is a formidable song writing partnership. Had it continued, this partnership (Robertson-Manuel)had the potential to be a rustic Lennon McCartney...a great rock-music songwriting duo. But they ended before they really got started. (sigh)'
Quoting Robbie Robertson '...I cannot answer for Richard , but somehow he got discouraged in his attempts at writing. And I used to try to do stuff with him, and we did do 'Whispering Pines,' a really lovely experience. I tried to keep him going, but it just didn't work, he just didn't have the ambition to write any more.'
This book is an interesting read.
Entered at Sun Sep 16 19:50:36 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
JoanSubject: Outlaw blues
Dlew I have read Taplin's book. It didn't open too many new doors but it was an enjoyable read, Taplin writes well. I have been following him on Facebook.
Entered at Sun Sep 16 17:25:41 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Outlaw Blues
Dlew, assume you have the iBook version … with video and links. Annoyingly the links are to American iTunes so don't work for the UK store, but it's a good read.
Just saw a review of Barney Hoskyns new book on Led Zeppelin. So he's covering bands in the opposite order to Stephen Davis.
Entered at Sun Sep 16 16:36:19 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
SolomonWeb: My link
Subject: Nick Lowe tribute record
JQ, Thanks for the info on Nick Lowe! I found a stream of the album Lowe Country: The Songs of Nick Lowe at Pastemagazine.com.
Entered at Sun Sep 16 14:20:23 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
dennisLocation: west saugerties
Subject: an addition to the list.....
For the list, you can add 9/30/94....a beautiful old theatre in Waterloo, Iowa, don't recall the name. Next day, drove all the way to Kalamazoo, Michigan with only one cassette, Glen Miller Band, but it had a version of, "I've Got a Gal in Kalamazoo." Must have played it two dozen times on that long ride....
Entered at Sun Sep 16 13:10:00 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Dlew919Subject: Outlaw blues, Jon Taplin
Anyone else read it? An autobiographical approach alternates with vignettes of American literature and history. The band features prominently. Not much new info, but an Iintriguing and interesting story with nice insights.
Entered at Sun Sep 16 12:27:54 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Coming in on the songwriting issue a little late but I am in the RR camp on this one. In my opinion all you need to do is look at how many songs were written after the breakup by individual members. Why is RR the only one with more than a few song??
Entered at Sun Sep 16 09:18:27 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: rhetoric
I don't want to be like a dog with a bone, or as the Italian janitor at the school I used to teach at was fond of saying "like a dog chewing a boner." He was noted for his colourful versions of colloquial language. We thought they were errors at the time or simply the Italian habit of adding an "a" sound to words (like a dog-a chewing a bone-a). I now believe they were deliberate as he had a great sense of humour and an English wife.
But an aside on debating. One of the distinguishing thing about early American universities was that Rhetoric was part of the curriculum,which can be seen in the precision of language of the Founding Fathers. In fact, just down the road from Pat, at Northwestern, the film, radio and TV section is still called "The School of Speech."
Entered at Sun Sep 16 07:08:00 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Pat, I'd like to thank you for showing your stripes so vividly. This is a great place to move on from, thanks for cooperating ever so "logically."
Entered at Sun Sep 16 04:47:45 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Pat BJeff, you obviously have no idea what Levon's legal action was about. I'm sure no matter what I say you will cry foul and make all your silly insinuations, but really, you just don't know what you are talking about.
Peter, debating takes equal parts research and logic. It's not exactly clear why Jeff would consider it insulting to harp about such things. Of course, it allows him to wallow in my high school experience--for whatever reason--and forget that in the 44 years since then I've managed to make a living writing and playing music .
Jeff, you're right, let's move on.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 20:06:33 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Bob FWeb: My link
Subject: Amy Helm
Amy Helm touring with her band and making a solo cd.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 17:49:52 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VMany thanks for the hard work on the concert list. Another addition … I'm pretty certain Edmonton 94 predates Vancouver and Seattle (on successive days.) I only read about the show in the morning Vancouver paper, and there was a short interview with Rick from Edmonton which I remember clearly, if only for an uncharacteristic remark about RR.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 17:32:12 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
JT and LvdBLocation: VIctoria and Toronto intermittently
Subject: Concert Listings for The Band
Check out the recent concert list (greatly improved) presentation, complete with revisions and corrections over the past 8 months. Thanks Jan. Looks great. Please keep your submissions, corrections and revisions coming in. Tim and others have been great in this regard.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 15:35:33 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
RozWho is this NorthWestCoaster who says I wouldn't exist without him? Are you my dad? ARE YOU ..DEADBEAT
Entered at Sat Sep 15 14:58:30 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Pete, in this case, your imagination is exceedingly pedestrian. If my high school had debating team, no one would have joined unless they taught you how to handle a switchblade. Separately, yet not totally disconnected to this conversation, honesty in communication is something to be valued. Underhandedness in communication is a very cowardly and dastardly thing (Thank you for supplying the perfect word this morning Rosalinda).Discussions, debates should be on the up and up.
Good day everyone.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 14:50:52 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Probably a good time to wish everyone a happy, healthy, prosperous, and peaceful New Year! Then again, maybe not.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 13:16:18 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
NorthWestCoasterLocation: Post-lunch insomnia
Of course, this gb is full of intellectual, honest and warm hearted people. I believe that even Miss Richarson will agree. After all, she would not exist without us.
On a serious side. What made me bitter was the hacking activity for many years ago. Obviously, it was not _Robbie's_ people and supporters who were behind this criminal activity against my personal integrity. - Have a good weekend and enjoy the music! NorthWestCoaster
Entered at Sat Sep 15 12:37:40 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
DennisLocation: West Saugerties
That IVF link below caused Norton to block an attack to my computer just now, advise don't click on it....
Otherwise, 'tis a Beautiful Saturday morning in the Woodstock neighborhood.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 12:24:38 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
NorthWestCoasterSubject: Miss Richardson: "Murdering each one of you in the most dastardly ways imaginable.
Just a simple thought before my afternoon nap: I am happy not knowing anyone in this godforsaken place, white ass or red.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 11:55:09 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
rosalindYou people always warmed my heart. I plotted murdering each one of you in the most dastardly ways imaginable. Jeff, I thought I'd pissed you off.. Peter.. I saw your ass once. It was white... it was very white
Entered at Sat Sep 15 11:48:22 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Web: My link
Sorry to repost, this version has pictures.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 11:46:33 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Web: My link
Subject: Richard Manuel's Piano
I'm never positive if something was previously posted here, so I'm throwing this up. Enjoy
Entered at Sat Sep 15 11:40:23 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VBy the way, PSBs post on The Band live with and without Robbie is one of the definitive short statements on the subject.
Jeff, you have my curiosity roused here. What did the captain of your high school debating team do to you? It still rankles, we can see that. Get the girl? Ridicule you? Win a game of checkers by cheating? Get a gold cup? It's still there after all these years.
I laughed at Ros's post too while I was in the USA. No one tried to grab my ass, not even in San Francisco, but that reflects on my ageing appearance, I guess.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 11:20:21 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Subject: Simone Felice Group
Simone Felice last night in Bath, where Roger W was also present. What a night for Band fans! See the link. The support act, Matthew Boulter called his new album The Whispering Pines. Simone did stellar versions of both Atlantic City and I Shall Be Released. The latter, with Simi Stone on lead vocal, was the version I've most enjoyed since Wembley 1974 with Richard on vocals!
Entered at Sat Sep 15 10:50:19 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Aretha
One of my repetitive bits is that the song is defined as the top line and lyric. So that Aretha's The Weight is still the same RR song, but Garth's piano, Levon's drums (and Robbie's guitar) don't appear in the song, so that these wonderful things are "arrangement" not songwriting. When I say it (well, the last dozen times anyway) I usually add Jackie deShannon, Spooky Tooth, Diana Ross & The Supremes With The Temptations, all prominent versions in the early days, none using The Band's arrangement.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 09:27:28 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
IVFWeb: My link
Subject: great Post & Awesome
Very long to read the article...but I Enjoyed it a lot...thanks for the post...keep on sharing such interesting
Entered at Sat Sep 15 07:03:46 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
dlew919Web: My link
Subject: New blog post
scroll is on the right...
Entered at Sat Sep 15 06:51:30 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Subject: Truth and Soul
Pat. You could just read what i wrote, and what David wrote, and decide for yourself what we both meant. That's what you want to do anyway. I know what I typed ( it is there for anyone to read), and I read what David typed. You can alter words or meaning as you like. Dwarf owned the publishing, there was litigation initiated by Levon, the litigation did definitely include areas that Dwarf was involved in contractually. Good enough? High school debate team was a long time ago. Time for you to get over it, Captain.People want to change the subject here. Let em.
JQ. Nick Lowe is on tour.Coming here to St Louis.Tomorrow night we have Poco and Pure Prairie League out in StPeters, but i doubt I'll get out.Still working tomorrow and Sunday. But,Sunday night we got long time Brooklyn resident (now living in Jersey), badass soul and funk singer Lee Fields and The Expressions, downtown. Gonna get my tucchas to that one.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 05:28:45 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Subject: Funniest Post Of The Year
Pete, in all seriousness, this post came out of left field and I really thought it was hysterical. Not because it weaas directed at you, but becuase it was fucking funny...Just a few weeks back , Rosalind, out of nowhere, to you : " Peter....A litttle advice while you're travelling around this semi-great country of arn. Some advice my Mother gave me when I left home for the first time "Don't let'em feel your ass" . And then she came back, repeated "Don't let'em feel your ass". That was fucking funny. Ros and i were FB friends for awhile, then i pissed her off.
Bonk. Most of the posters here know me, and my wesbite.That is why I just gave you the link to the one song for now. Obviously, i;m not here for self promotion :-)
Entered at Sat Sep 15 05:12:33 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Pat BLevon sued Dylan and Dwarf? Did David P say that?
Entered at Sat Sep 15 05:02:12 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Web: My link
you tube linked above.
you can find me easily enough a variety of ways from there, send me an email, I'll send you more.
Entered at Sat Sep 15 03:44:44 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
BONKLocation: SaltSpring Island/Cabbagetown
Subject: FriendO :)
Sorry man. Just can't be that INTREPID. Never mind all that shit. You write songs? Show me one. And I'm not being a smartass. I play a little guitar and a lot of drums but I can't put shit down on paper. At least anything that makes any sense. I always get to that point where I realize "Ah shit. Somebody else already wrote that". So give me something or a web site of your stuff. And I'm not sucking up here 'cause you can go fuck yourself too'. :)
Entered at Sat Sep 15 02:51:44 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Pat, both instances were accurate.You can choose to ignore that it's been pointed out to you by another poster as well.
Peter Brown, it's unfortuante that you would so completely distort what I wrote regarding a hypothetical example of what might have occurred had RR been a solo everything back then and sent a demo of The Weight to Aretha. I absolutely never wrote or implied anything close to "Aretha's version of the Weight is the perfect reason all five should be credited." Or that her recording the song is proof they were cowriters.
There are all kinds o9f successful demos."Lift Me Up where Belong" got picked up off a drum and guitar demo. i think who the writers were may have helped get it heard and considered.
While you have written some very good articles lately, I don't think you are the final authority on songwriting.I don't think there is one. And i'd bet there are dozens of songwriters we have heard of, who lurk here, and don't bother to comment. You can bet you and i are not the only two songwriters reading this thread, or the only two with differing opinions..
Entered at Sat Sep 15 00:58:52 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
JQWeb: My link
Subject: Change the subject - a Nick Lowe tribute record
This sounds good to me -
Entered at Fri Sep 14 22:01:12 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Kevin JTo Bob F’s point, word in musical circles in Toronto is that Gordon Lightfoot has kept his band on decent annual salaries for multiple decades through good times and bad……lovely…….but like Springsteen, Lightfoot is essentially a solo guy - never part of a “rock group” in the traditional sense….and I would guess that there are practical and moral factors in play with how guys like that choose to take care of their bands/employees…………a different story entirely from being just one of 5 in a band of equals…….. notably neither Springsteen or Lightfoot ever threw “co-writes” to band mates……………….a funny thought – imagine if rock guys got paid for gigs based on instrumental time and indulgences………the drummers in those gruesome prog-rock bands of the 70’s with their 40 minute drum solo’s would earn all the cake……Greg Lake might have written the good ones but damn that drummer is getting all the money….yikes indeed.
PSB: Well done…..a great post.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 20:46:22 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
First of all Thank you Sebastian.Your input is important
Todd JT and Jed, all good points and well said. Money is very important especially when someone does not get what they feel their due. Robbie seemed to have a head for business. The others did not. IN an interview I read somewhere, Garth said he had filed for bankruptcy 3 times. Rick lost his farm and we all know Levon's difficulties.
As someone here said there was more to it than just the royalties and we will probably never know what it was
I am glad that there was some redemption and that Robbie was able to see Levon before he passed. Perhaps now we can lay this subject down and just listen to the music.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 20:27:45 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Pat BGreat technique. Tell Sebastian that he needs a fact checker. Give two instances, exactly one of which proves to be inaccurate. Then announce later that Sebastian has his facts wrong "fairly often". Beautiful.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 20:19:30 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Pat BDavid P, of course, but there was no legal issue as to the payment, rather did Capitol have the right to allow its use. That decision went against Levon who had signed the Capitol contract giving the label that right.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 20:04:13 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
JedSubject: Lovers and Haters
Bob F.--I sincerely had no particular person here in mind whether for Levon or for RR in this thing.My reaction came after reading the vapid remarks aimed at RR in the comments section below the Larry interview. I am amazed when people assert thoughts in a definitive manner,basing their certainty on interviews and heresay.People tend to speak more truthfully outside of interviews preferring private conversations we may not be privy to.Enough said since my comments are only further feeding the beast.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 19:44:51 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Bob F.Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Subject: Final words on the subject
Jed, I hope your not including me with the Robbie haters. I got to see the original Band many times and Robbie was always my favorite. To this day the greatest guitar player I ever saw and one of my top 5 songwriters of all time. Living my entire life in the Hudson Valley I got to see the other 4 members of the Band play all these years. Towards the end I felt some of the places Rick had to play to survive was just wrong. One time we saw him 3rd on the bill at a free show in Poughkeepsie down by the Hudson River. Can you imagine that, the great Rick Danko 3rd on the bill in Poughkeepsie! It should have never came to that. When anyone talks about great band leaders and mates look no further then Bruce Springsteen. By all accounts Danny Federici and Clarence put a bunch of gray hair on Bruce's head and yeah Bruce took a short vacation once. But for almost 40 years Bruce has kept his team together through good times and hard times. Nobody from his band ended up playing 3rd on the bill in Poughkeepsie. Now that is a 'Blood Brother'.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 19:40:29 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
PSBLocation: City of Brotherly Love
Subject: The same old subject
By all accounts over the years, Richard Manuel stopped writing songs. Robertson begged him not to stop which is in various interviews, articles etc. I have also heard from various sources that numerous people including Bob Dylan tried to get him to get his act together to no avail.
When Levon passed, Jon Taplin who was The Band's road manager and worked with them through the '70s wrote a blog in which he made clear that all the members of The Band received mechanical royalties into the '90s of several hundred thousand dollars a year. If they couldn't live on that, well gee, I'm sorry.
As a songwriter I've had a few bands and sometimes those bands had other songwriters. I bring a song that I wrote to the band, they play it. Lead guitarist comes up with a part. Then he leaves, and someone else comes in and puts a part on it. I still wrote the song. Someone else brings a song in, I put it a part on it. That guy leaves forms another band, another guitarist or whoever puts a part on it. He still wrote the song. Now if someone takes that song and changes it adding a part or decides to write a verse or substantially changes it, that's different, or if I sit down and write a song with someone else, that's different. But sorry, arrangements are not songwriting.
I've seen comments many times by one person who insists that Aretha's version of "The Weight" is the perfect reason all five should be credited. It's ridiculous. If anything that's the perfect example of why they shouldn't. The myth in the music biz is make a demo of the highest quality blah blah blah. I learned from a big time producer that's just bull when I sent him a better version of a song I wrote. They're just looking for the song period.
Once Richard Manuel stopped writing, Robbie Robertson had to write for three very different singers and he did it. And yes sometimes they'd try a song with various singers to see who was the best fit. That still ain't songwriting. Robbie Robertson had a very singular style of songwriting and a very identifiable style. and so by the way did Richard Manuel and it's tragic he didn't continue.
One other thing no one mentions. The original version of The Band was extremely tight onstage until the last year or so, though signs were evident earlier. The later versions of the group simply weren't. They'd blow intros, stop songs and start over - it was just sad. And I stopped seeing them because I didn't want to kill the great memories. And I thought long and hard about that and reached the conclusion that the person who was missing would never have stood for such frankly unprofessional playing and performing. The thing is Robbie Robertson knew how great The Band was, and he wrote songs that challenged them and also showed how great they were. And he also knew that in order for them to make it, get noticed, and compete and be something more than Bob Dylan's backup band, they needed those songs because otherwise they just would have been a really great cover band. And the fact that he doesn't get credit for that and is constantly attacked and despised is beyond despicable.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 19:31:22 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Todd's point-RR only played guitar onstage, Levon, Rick,Richard all played multiple instruments and sang, onstage and off, Garth played multi instruments, did they get a bigger share of the performance money -tied to the , fact and concept of partnership that had previously existed and no one ever said hey- this is where the partnership changes - is a wonderful argument that splitting the the publishing half alone was not in line with past understanding and business. I think Sebastian's explanation, that RR disucssed it with Grossman, and made his decision, links to Levon's argument that the copyrights on Big Pink came as a surprise to the other 4 Band members. And that that was the beginning f a lot of discontent. That they did raise the issue, and expected it to be corrected on Brown, but it wasn't.
But, the biggest issue has always been that.,up to this point, this was the life's work of 5 men. And the fact tha RR did tend to portray The Band as he and 4 guys. Beginning with The Last Waltz.
Peter- i knew you'd love the editor line :-) But, i wasn't confining my point to syntax, grammar, or spelling.Concepts, and facts, flow. Some one
unfamiliar might even think RR had the
mental and physical deterioration he alluded to. .But also, what the point of evcen including that? then there is tone.If he is representing his father, what about tone. essentially, Sebastian's posts are offical RR statements. Sebastian has presented himself as having the spokesman position.But he has facts wrongs fairly often.';m just saying, a fact checker editor is a good idea.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 19:28:42 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
David PSubject: Ab Fab
The licensing of "This Wheel's On Fire" as the theme song for the television series Absolutely Fabulous was cerainly a windfall for Rick as co-writer. Since Julie Driscoll's cover version of the song was used, rather than The Band's, the other members didn't get a share. As I recall, there was talk of a film spin-off in the works and if TWOF would be used again there'd be additional licensing fees.
Pat: The was a separate issue in the BBDO lawsuit regarding whether or not Levon's permission was properly obtained for the use of his voice as lead vocalist. Dylan's publishing company was indeed involved in the negotiations for the use of "The Weight" in the commercials. A separate licensing agreement was entered with into with them for a fee of $140,000 and, I believe Robbie, as songwriter, received an additional share from that fee.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 19:24:22 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
JTLocation: Victoria and Toronto intermittently
Subject: Five Stars
Kevin: Five stars should be reserved for the very few. Five stars are 'given out' much to liberally. In my view, this collection rates between 4-5 stars based upon lyrics, music and band, and presentation. It is well produced and very enjoyable despite its content. It ranks highly. The yardstick of' Blonde on Blonde' or 'Blood' is a difficult one to measure up against. I'm pleased that we are talking about music and like Jed, would love to return to this area and leave the other stuff (currently again raising the ire of some) behind.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 18:59:10 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Pat BLevon sued the ad agency BBDO claiming that Capitol did not have the right to sell the usage of The Weight to Cingular Wireless. Since Levon had signed a contract claiming that Capitol could, his claim was rejected. It had nothing to do with Dylan or Dwarf Music.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 18:51:48 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Levon is dead and gone and like all of us he had faults.This songwriting thing was a blind spot,or logic free zone as Larry said.I wish Larry never discussed this.It simply opened up a discussion that can't have a resolution other than each person reaching their own conclusion as to the so called facts.Sebastian rightfully defends his dad...what good son would do differently.But,again,there is no positive gain from this discussion beyond speaking ill of a departed Levon and bringing on the fools who wrongly curse RR.Enjoy,nurture, and spread the music,but fans best stay out of disputes merely observed from a distance.I am a mere fan and this whole discussion saddens me.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 18:38:34 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Sebastian - Since it is not unusual for a child to be blindly loyal to his father's position,I was trying not to be too critical all at once before.But you need a fact checker as well as an editor. No one has wanted to respond to you directly about this, but, it's been discussed here for years that Dylan's company owned the publishing to Big Pink, and as David pointed out,Levon did sue over The Weight being used in that TV spot. Also discussed here for years. So, when you write that maybe Levon should go after Dylan too, well, he did.There was litigation. You were incorrect when you wrote that Lennon and McCartney did not share publishing with Ringo and George. Minimally, that's twice you got your facts wrong. I just think that if you want to give credence to your father's position, it would help if you get your facts straight when you talk about facts.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 18:33:19 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Kevin JSubject: Songwriting - The Final Word - Encore
I submitted this post - below the line - just after the release of HTBC in April 2011......worth rereading for those that are now pivoting ( after Larry Campbell's further confirmation of what the truth was ) that "well....it was not really about songwriting....but 'other things'........nonsense.
He might well have hurt some old mates along the way and been insensitive to others ( one would have to be one of the O5 to know this – my experience is that the guy standing closest to the accountant usually does have the longest pockets and shortest arms ) BUT enough of this song writing talk already!….The final word on this is as follows…………. …….in that it strikes me that the exact same mentality that characterizes the insane “Birther” crowd – is present in the song-writing argument……..The one guy who was there and knows and is a perfect witness in that he doesn’t even like RR as he is sure he was short-changed financially by him is the Band’s Producer/6th member – John Simon……..who stated categorically some years back that:
“ Robbie was the one who wrote the lyrics and wrote the music. Wrote the lyrics on legal paper, or whatever he wrote it on, and figured out the chords to the song and dictated the melody and chords to the other players”…………………………………………..Repeat that kids…..”dictated the melody and chords to the other players”
………………………..anyone here who has written songs knows how difficult it is and also knows how much help more accomplished players and especially singers can help bring what was written to life……………..George Harrison elevated so many Beatles songs to things of beauty that I could write about it for a full month…….he doesn’t get a song writing credit on any of them (other than his own compositions of course) and this is entirely correct……..adding textures or helping with arrangements is not song writing…………to be quite rude and in the words of the not always so humble or tactful Robbie Robertson…. “they were just doing their fu*king job”…………………………………..If that isn’t clear enough, check out the number of songs that were written by the other guys since 1976……………..I have 4 Levon albums dating back to 1978 and not a single self-penned song (and only 2 or 3 co-writes)……..Rick had only ONE song that was self-penned and sadly “Sip the Wine” was not even his song………………Richard was the one guy who was a songwriter and he admitted himself to having completely dried up creatively by 1971! And he got full song writing credit on the songs he did write for the Band……………………….”Dirt Farmer” might well be the most enjoyable album by any member of the Band ( I still play it regularly ) but it is a “covers” album – done brilliantly by quite simply one of the most talented/soulful musicians this industry has ever known………….No other singer alive can put me in 1850, 1920 and 2007 all within the space of 10 minutes…….but if I read another blog/review that has at its heart the “fact” that RR ripped off his band mates by stealing their songs – I think my head might explode.
Bob F: Always good to hear from you......more on Temptest in a few weeks.........first impression is that this is not a 5 star collection but much I do like about it.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 18:08:32 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Pat BDid any of the members of the Band comment on Rick's huge haul with TWOF?
Beautiful Thing, Ruben Remus, Katie's Been Gone, Tears of Rage, In A Station, We Can Talk, Lonesome Suzie, Orange Juice Blues, When You Awake, Whispering Pines. All these songs were written or co-written by Richard Manuel. Did Richard continue to write songs but not bring them to the group because he thought he was being ripped off? What was the effect on the group when Richard stopped writing?
Entered at Fri Sep 14 17:55:37 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
RayVery well said, Todd.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 17:11:08 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Subject: Round & Round
Ray, thanks for that info. I was starting to wonder how poor George and Ringo made much if a living, especially since they stopped touring in 1966. And I can’t imagine that the touring money was very significant back in those days.
Jeff and I don't agree on everything, and we have different ways of stating things, but I think he's correct when he says that this is more than about money.
I have no doubt that Levon viewed The Band as a five-way partnership. An organic affair that benefited from everyone involved using their talents to the best of their ability. Robbie brought a lot of ideas and words to the party. Garth brought sonic landscapes etc. They all had something that was unique and essential to the process.
But it is a business, and the way that the math seems to have worked out, Robbie got 60% on many Band songs and others got 10%. Some people think that's fair, others don't.
When Levon got the phone call from Rick to resume business as The Band after the Dylan tour, do you think he was told that he'd get 10%? Does anyone think that 10% vs. 60% is what he was expecting? Would he have still made the trip North based on those figures?
Did they have a similar breakdown for money earned on live performance? For example did Levon earn more because he sang and played drums, while Robbie predominantly played guitar on stage and did very little singing? Should Levon, or Rick, or Richard have earned more from a concert for vocals AND instrumentation? Did Garth make more than Richard because he often played two keyboards while Richard was only playing one? Should Robbie earn more than Rick because he had 6 strings on his instrument vs. 4? Of course not. It would seem silly to divide the proceeds from that part of the business based on who appeared to be doing more on stage for some songs vs. others. Yet that’s exactly how it played out for other parts of the business.
I know that no one ever believes this, because it doesn’t fit the “profile”, but my opinions about The Band started formulating LONG before I read Levon’s book, or even before this web-site existed.
I was 10 years old at the time of The Last Waltz. I first became aware of The Band through an Encyclopedia entry that had a photo from The Last Waltz. It all seemed so mysterious and even mythical, but definitely intriguing to this youngster from suburban CT. When I first started buying Band albums in the early 1980’s, at the age of 14, I had no idea about who did what. There was usually just a photo of the five of them all looking pretty much the same. It really looked like a Band of equals. I didn’t know who sang what, or who played what and certainly didn’t know or care what the publishing split was.
But one thing that I did notice a LOT of was the name Robertson. It appeared everywhere, and when I finally saw a video of TLW around 1984 (which I primarily rented at the time for the Clapton/Butterfield/Muddy Waters content), it seemed that Robbie was the central character of this group. For quite a few years (in my younger and more naïve days) I had this perception of “The Band” as Robbie Robertson and a bunch of talented sidemen. After all, his name was the one that kept popping up everywhere. He MUST have been the one.
As I got a little older and wiser and did a lot more listening, my perspective changed to one where I realized that the genius of this group was in fact, not one singular individual but was due to the collaboration and chemistry of all involved. By 1987 (at the seasoned age of 21), I had seen the reformed Band, seen Levon solo and seen Rick solo, and had purchased and listened to Robbie’s first solo album (much of which I enjoyed). These events and experiences are what led to my more balanced viewpoint of the creativity of this group known as ‘The Band”. I stumbled upon this website in the late 1990’s, and probably read Levon’s book around 2002 when I finally bought a copy to see what all the fuss was about. But by then, many of my opinions had already been formed many years prior. We can make it about songwriting, but I feel that there is much more going on.
Aside from all of the songwriting discussions and perceptions of who did what, has anyone ever explained why there is only a picture of Robbie along with the superstar guests on the back cover of the DVD for The Last Waltz? No Levon, No Rick, No Garth, No Richard. That has nothing to do with the songwriting discussion or publishing but is just another tiny example of how perceptions can be skewed into thinking that one of the legs of the table is more important than the others.
Sebastian, your loyalty to your father is understandable and admirable. It reinforces the strong sense of family that was evident within this group, even as far back as the next-of-kin photo on Music from Big Pink.
I have no personal beef with Robbie, and I appreciate his creativity and everything he contributed to The Band. It wouldn’t have been the same without him. He sometimes get criticized for his singing, but one of my favorite Band songs is ‘Knockin’ Lost John’ where his vocal fits perfectly. And one of my favorite guitar parts ever, has always been from ‘Going to Acapulco’. But at the end of the day, I will always be a bigger fan of the group rather than any one particular individual.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 16:48:36 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
David PExpanding further on Tenn's post -- The financial upside on when the record label licenses the actual recording of a song for use in film, television, commercials and compilation albums is that the perfomers/musicians get 50% of the revenue. As an example, when Capitol (through EMI Film & Television Music) licensed the use of The Band's recording of "The Weight" in the Cingular Wireless ad campaign a few years ago, with the consent of Dylan's Special Rider Music (successor to Dwarf publishing), the group members & respective estates split that 50%, with each getting 10%. The initial amount of the licensing fee was $140,000. As this contract was subject to litigation, following Levon's lawsuit in New York State Supreme Court, many of the details are public record.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 16:14:45 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
dlew919Location: Sydney, Australia
Subject: Sebastian; Peter V.
Hi Sebastian: Whatever your dad may or may not have done(and I think him innocent of most, if not all, charges levelled at him), he certainly raised a son I'm sure he's really proud of; (I speak as a father, as well.). Keep well, and keep in touch.
Peter V said: Just saw an ad for the "Never Mind The Bollocks Super De-Luxe set" a mere £92.98 with CDs, DVDs, posters, the lot. Yep, that was exactly what punk was about!
I think McLaren worse than Klein, Grossman, Grant, Sheffields, Arden, etc - at least with them, they didn' promote themselves as heroes of the working classes... and this stuff just continues the sad decline of punk as a genuine exciting thing to yet another corporate sellout. If we want to talk of who screwed who out of money: look at the story of Glenn Matlock ... I hope Johnny Rotten chokes on his superannuation cheques...
Entered at Fri Sep 14 16:12:07 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Ray GGeorge's and Ringo's percentage in Lennon/McCartney tunes was insisted upon by John Lennon... John was a good guy and looked out for his buddies.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 16:10:38 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
SebastianSubject: Big Pink
One more little fact for you. Bob Dylan owns the publishing on Music From Big Pink. Maybe Levon should've gone after him too.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 15:48:49 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
BWNWITennPeter, the publishing company can't stop the songs from being included on CD compilations, that's all on the record label which owns the master. The publishing company can deny things like film and TV uses, but not CDs. If "The Weight" is the only song turning up on cheap compilations, it's just because the licensee label thinks it's the only Band song that average classic rock fans know. You can blame Dwarf for things like the Coke commercial, but compilations are all on Capitol/EMI. Also, moral rights like paternity don't exist under US copyright law. Obviously, someone might still want credit for their creations, but when Levon said that Robbie ripped them all off, I don't think he was talking about mere recognition.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 15:25:59 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
David PThe Beatles' publishing situation was complicated by the fact that, as they held only a minority interest, they didn't control the rights, which were administered by Northern Songs, in the hands of Dick James & his partners. I believe the breakdown was that Lennon & McCartney each held a 15% interest, Brian Epstein 5% and Starr & Harrison each held 0.8%. Later, around the time of the White Album, George & Ringo started their own publishing companies for their songs. Northern Songs was later acquired by ATV in 1968 and, as we all know, Michael Jackson in the '80s bought the company and later sold 50% to Sony for a substantial profit.
Thank you Sebastian for the details on The Band's publishing arrangement.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 14:10:47 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Ray GLennon and McCartney DID include George and Ringo in the publishing of their Beatle era songs. This is documented and Lennon made this known when he complained about not getting his props in George's book "I, Me, Mine." Just sayin'
Entered at Fri Sep 14 12:15:07 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VAs often mentioned, both Davis & Hoskyns owe a debt to the original Rolling Stone 1969 interview with Ronnie Hawkins. And to the later article in RS by Robert Palmer (A Portrait of The artists As Young Hawks).
Entered at Fri Sep 14 11:57:59 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Irony
Just saw an ad for the "Never Mind The Bollocks Super De-Luxe set" a mere £92.98 with CDs, DVDs, posters, the lot. Yep, that was exactly what punk was about!
I found it last night while browsing The Kinks At The BBC Box set, which was 5 Cds / 2 DVDs on amazon.co.uk at £40 last night. I thought 'Let's think overnight …' This morning it's sold out with resellers offering it at £46 to £101.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 11:13:04 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VBoth sides of the argument here have come to get along, I think. It is amazing how This Wheel’s On Fire created such a strong opinion in so many people … witness the “American Songwriter” comments, based on an article where Larry Campbell essentially backs-up what Robbie’s said for years about co-writing. I was talking to an old friend who’d read the book, which I think Tennn gave the name “Stephen Davis’s novel” who said he enjoyed the book but was amazed to discover that Robbie was “such a c***.” Then we talked amout Stephen Davis’s Hammer of The Gods where he was amazed to find that “Jimmy Page was such a c***”. Maybe Davis has it in for lead guitarists. Or maybe they all are. It’s certainly how Clapton presents himself in his autobiography.
Davis is a very good rock writer. At some point, Levon said he was unhappy when he read it to find that he’d come across as so bitter. I’d add “read it for the first time” because the structure shows that Davis ran a lot of tape, got some great tales, and put the book together. One of the pleasures is that it sounds like Levon. But then it switches to long quotes from Rick, also clearly interview. When you have hours of tape, you select stuff, and people say stuff orally that they (most of us, maybe not Jeff ☺) would not write. I was amazed that they let Rick’s groupie tale through – it doesn’t reflect well on Levon and Richard, though told very well. I think it’s sad that so many people making comments take the Davis story as 100% gospel, ignoring the raconteur’s tall tale style which makes it so entertaining. I mean the rain at Watkin’s Glen really wasn’t exactly like “a cow pissing on a flat rock” as Levon describes it, but that’s the way I see heavy rain now. Unfortunately, people have taken the view of Robbie at the end as set in stone.
On publishing, The Weight was Dylan’s company, and you have to say it has been treated like shit, shoved on to stuff like “Sixty Songs of The Sixties” on the Disky label, 3 CDs for £3.99. Not a lot accrues from that sort of deal. You never see Dylan, Beatles, Simon or Stones on those sort of very lo-budget compilations. Which is why it's good that the rest is properly controlled.
The value of back catalogue is a gamble. Early 80s to early 90s, not many people would have invested in the publishing of (say) Knocking Lost John or Volcano, unaware that CD would bring endless compilations and remasters of this kind of thing. Even so, many CDs have print runs of less than 2000. The reason the main writer would is shown by the “right of paternity” in book publishing. Authors and songwriters feel genuine deep investment in their work.
Funniest post of the week: JeF,fO saying someone else needs an eDtoR.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 08:46:20 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Actually, publishing companies adminsitrate for artists, and artists companies.Unless the artist actually builds a self reliant publishing operation.I haven't bothered to look right now, but there is a good chance that the publishing was/is adminstred by another publisher that gets up to 50% of the publishing.The 5 guys would have split what remained.
Monetarily, it might have been a fair or close to fair deal. Todd and I have always agreed that here isa lot more to this than money. And I don't doubt that is how the 4 other Band members felt.
Credits and royalties is only where it started.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 08:36:48 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
BWNWITennWell, yeah, that's the end result of what I was asking. Which, if true, would mean that Levon got 10% of all of the songs he spent the last 30 years complaining that he got cheated out of the money on... including the songs from NLSC that he admits in his book that he had nothing to do with writing...
Entered at Fri Sep 14 08:18:24 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
ToddSubject: Simple Math
BWNWITenn, I didn't think that Sebastian's explanation was confusing. It sounds like Robbie got 60% and the other guys each got 10%. (on the songs credited to Robbie Robertson with a 5 way split on the publishing).
Entered at Fri Sep 14 08:04:20 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
BWNWITennI also find it funny when people suggest the "U2 method" as being the foolproof way of preventing disagreements over songwriting. Does anyone really think that would eliminate the possibility of a band member saying, "Hey, I wrote all of Strawberry Wine, Richard wasn't even in the same state at the time, why should he make as much money from it as me?" The only way to truly prevent disputes is for everyone to agree in writing at the time how much they each contributed to each individual song. Of course, that is likely to cause strife, too, only during the productive life of the band rather than after.
The bottom line is, if somebody wants to get pissed off, they're going to get pissed off. And if they write a book about it, some people will believe them.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 07:51:48 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
BWNWITennThanks for the post, Sebastian, that was informative. Do you know whether your dad talked to the other guys about doing Storyville as a Band album, and they turned him down? That's something often rumored around here. If so, I think it's a shame - it's a phenomenal album, but if it was a Band release I think it could have matched the first two albums and Northern Lights in quality.
I'm confused by your explanation of your dad giving the other members publishing on the songs he wrote. Obviously, he's credited as the sole writer on a lot of that stuff. Do you mean that he shared the 50% publisher's share of income amongst everybody, while keeping the 50% writer's share for himself? Perhaps set up the publishing company (Medicine Hat, right?) as a business entity that was owned equally by all the members? If that's really the case, Levon was a complete a-hole for complaining about anything. I've never really understood that, because typically the other members wouldn't have a whole lot of publishing to sell to Robbie - I believe Garth only had one co-write ("Islands") in their entire catalog, which obviously wouldn't be worth much money.
I always find it a bit ridiculous when people mention buying out copyright interests as some nefarious act. The entire point of buying and selling copyrights or income streams is that the buyer expects to eventually earn back more than he paid... otherwise, what would be the point of doing it? The seller needs a quick injection (bad choice of words, perhaps) of cash, so the buyer pays the value of several years worth of anticipated earnings, with the assumption that after x number of years he'll start making a profit beyond his investment. That's the entire point, so anyone claiming Robbie did something unfair by purchasing them and depriving the other guys of future income is just clueless.
Despite PutEmUp's claims, I was also surprised to see how the tide of opinion seems to have shifted on this site. Regardless, I guess we all now know the real reason why Levon should have a share of "The Weight": because his sperm is all over it. Perhaps Cassandra Wilson would have thought twice about singing it if she had known that. Or maybe not.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 07:35:03 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
ToddSubject: The Band
Sebastian, Thanks for your perspective.
All of the Band members were preternaturally talented. And years of hard work and paying their dues elevated their abilities and instincts to a level that many groups will never achieve. Each of them had something unique to offer, and my feeling is that the chemistry they were able to achieve together as a unit will always be greater than any one particular member's considerable abilities.
At times, there is sometimes the perception (whether fueled by media, fans, or occasionally principal members of the group), that one member or another may have been more responsible for the success than other members.
As someone who firmly believes that their best work came out of a period when there was a true collaborative spirit and energy, it occasionally rankles me when the perception arises that one leg of the table may have been more important than the other legs.
I'll always be thankful for the unparalleled music these five men gave us.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 07:30:22 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
FredSubject: Who wrote what...the (skewered) truth
I think the time has finally come to set the record straight about who wrote what: Al Edge wrote all the songs without input from any outside party. The OQ members were just used as a front. ; )
Entered at Fri Sep 14 06:51:36 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Sebastian- if you are going to post here then you should be open to responses.You wrote : "Usually the story on this site is VERY one-sided and it's so very refreshing to see some people standing up to the nonsense." Obviously, it is safe to say that you meant that the story on this site is very one sided against your father.But, that is not the case.The GB has been monopolized by people who support your father's position for many years.Anyone who disagrees with them comes under personal attack and most end up leaving the Gb for good. So your inaccurate statement, well, by extension..... well..
And a little constructive criticism- you need an editor. Badly.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 06:37:06 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
C'mon on now. Be intrepid and don't go fucking this up.I was really trying to be constructive.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 06:24:09 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Pat BBob F, I probably listen to all those RR songs a lot more than I listen to The Weight. Now, Dixie is a different beast, but I consider that one of the five greatest songs of all time. I still don't understand why Levon quit singing it.
I'm probably more interested in hearing live versions of those songs by the OQ. The vid that Ari posted is the sort of thing that gets me.
I find myself listening to BP and NLSC the most.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 05:47:05 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
SebastianSubject: The 80's & then some
When The Band decided to reform in the 80's they called my dad and asked him if he wanted to do it. He said no, he didn't want to tour any more which appears to be the truth since he's played one show since 1976. After he declined they asked for his blessing to use the name The Band and he had no problem with that. So answer me this... if my dad was soooooo money grubbing why didn't he cash in on a Band reunion or on the road for himself??? Seems like something isn't quite adding up here. In it for the money? Steal from your friends? Yet turns his back on tens of MILLIONS to pursue studio albums, soundtracks and scoring work. Songwriting? Hmmm... The Band and Levon do predominantly cover albums or co-writes with tons of people after he's gone and my dad writes dozens of songs which some of in my humble opinion are classics.
Usually the story on this site is VERY one-sided and it's so very refreshing to see some people standing up to the nonsense. My dad shared the publishing equally among all members of The Band on the songs he wrote. You think Lennon or McCartney did that with George and Ringo? THEY DIDN'T! Albert Grossman explained the options to my dad... That he could keep everything or that in some cases people share the publishing side of the back end. Due to the collaborative efforts in The Band my dad felt this was a no-brainer and Albert agreed, so that was the arrangement.
This was also under the guise that the everyone in The Band was going to do some songwriting. After MANY years and some physical and mental deterioration Richard and Rick came to my dad... They told him that they were sorry that they didn't keep up their end of the bargain and asked if he would like to buy their share of the publishing. My dad got the money together and bought them out and subsequently bought out Garth as well. So, Richard, Garth and Rick all sold their share. They never once complained... Levon kept his, received royalties hie entire life and in return wrote a gossip book. Classy. I guess it's pretty clear where I stand on this issue.
Enjoy the music, enjoy the GOOD memories and enjoy each other and let's all hope that Capitol Records uncovers some goodies in the near future and we can hear some stuff we've never heard before. Cheers.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 05:18:18 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
What do you call it if I'm not good at it?
Entered at Fri Sep 14 04:54:51 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Hey Bonk- Go fuck yourself. If you take my advise, and are good at it, then - this was a constructive post.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 04:40:17 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
BONKLocation: SaltSpring Island/Cabbagetown
Subject: Jeff, Put em up, whatever.
Man, you are really boring and you have your head right up your ass. I think the only time you come on here is to shit disturb ( I have to give it to you, you're good at it) You seem like an ok guy but you also seem like you have tunnel vision. Can you ever say anything that's constructive?
Entered at Fri Sep 14 04:23:35 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
BONKLocation: SaltSpring Island/Cabbagetown
Subject: The Band
Didn't Levon once say "it's a done deal bubba, they've gone and led the horse to the barn" or something like that. Maybe he should have taken that to heart. I know a lot of people cat dance around this, but booze and drugs finished The Band, or at least what they were, Didn't he also say "Man, if you've never made a million bucks over night, LIKE WE DID, you have no idea what it can do to you. I've seen it destroy people." Well it destroyed them as far as new material went. I love all the boys but it was a DONE DEAL. As far as older bands coming up with something that was worth listening to, I think the Stones have been able to grab my attention more than most. They re-invent themselves to a certain extent, but they're still the Stones. The boys in The Band couldn't or didn't want to until it was to late. And Robbie's not to blame. He moved on.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 04:11:49 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Bob-maybe they contributed their lives to the songs Bob.The essence of every one of them is in the creation ofthose songs. DN fucking A.Sperm.Creation.That is the fucking difference. You obviously know it, i know it,Levon knew it. they all knew it and know it. They all created those songs. That is the fucking difference. those songs were inseminated by all 5 of The Band. No RR song has gotten off the same way since .......
Entered at Fri Sep 14 03:43:07 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Pat, that last post of your directed at me is the funniest smoke bomb you have ever posted here. Your dreidl spun off the table, crashed on the floor, and shattered. And i'm sorry, but former high school debate team captains just get laughed at when they type the word tough.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 03:05:15 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Bob FLocation: Hudson Valley, NY
Subject: Kevin J.
Kevin J, it's great to see you posting. I was wondering where you went. What do you think about the new Dylan?
Entered at Fri Sep 14 03:02:10 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Bob F.Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Subject: Good vs Great
Pat, I like all the Robbie songs you listed but I would happily trade all of them for The Weight. Wouldn't you? I think that's the difference between good and great. Maybe that's the difference between collaborating with U2, The Bodeens and Eric Clapton or collaborating with The Band.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 01:29:17 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
So to replace RR in 83 they got the Cate Brothers. Why? Why didn't they bring on a first rate guitarist?
Entered at Fri Sep 14 01:26:08 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Pat BOf all the Beatles, I liked George Harrison's solo career the best. In fact, I thought Here Comes The Sun and Something made Abbey Road.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 01:22:29 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Pat BBob F, in no order: Between Trains, Fallen Angel, Broken Arrow, Crazy River, Shake This Town, Rules of the Game, Resurrection, What About Now, Handsome Lake, Shine a Light, Indian Country (title?).
In March of 1983, both Richard Thompson and Albert Lee were mentioned in the press as possible replacements for RR.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 01:21:03 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Kevin JTaken from Facebook a few months back……….the kind of words that put RR’s decision to stay off the road in some perspective……
“Hi All- This is Sebastian, Robbie's son and I just want to join you all in wishing my dad a Happy Birthday. From the 8am T-Ball games to the 8 pm help with homework. From the guidance into manhood and the support into becoming a musician, you're the greatest father I could have ever asked for. I love you.”
……..and Bob F........ Are you the same guy that instructed me to save a post I had done last April and to “re-print it every time this silly songwriting argument came up” or words to that effect?..................and, if you think “Out of the Blue” or “Between Trains” or "Broken Arrow" or "Sonny Got Caught in the Moonlight" or “Fallen Angel” or ‘Somewhere Down the Crazy River” or almost all of “Music for Native Americans” or “Straight Down the Line” are not great songs and music than you really have some issues with recognizing quality songwriting……...Perhaps Professor Bill M was correct to keep you out of the "cool kids" class after all......and Oh how I can not wait to get home tonight and put on "Double Fantasy" - released 10 years after Beatles....what a powerhouse return said sarcasticly....Hmm maybe Ringo wrote most of Revolver.....
Entered at Fri Sep 14 00:30:38 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Bob F.Location: Hudson Valley, NY
I often wondered why if as Robbie has said he planned to continue to record with The Band but not tour why that didn't happen. If the guys wanted to get back together in 1983 why didn't they make an album with Robbie and then go out on the road with a great guitar player like John Platania. Also, before everyone jumps on the Robbie bandwagon ask yourself if he really wrote all the songs why hasn't he writen anything as good in 35 years? When Lennon and McCartney split up how long did it take them to make solo records that were great? Not long. How long did it take Paul Simon to make a great solo record?
Has Robbie written anything in the post Band years as good as The Weight, Dixie, When you awake, King Harvest, Stage Fright, Life is a Carnival, Acadian Driftwood or It Makes No Difference? The truth is he hasn't written anything as good as the songs on Islands. I don't know what the other four contributed to the writing of the great Band songs but they contributed something more then arraingement and performance. That's for sure.
Entered at Fri Sep 14 00:02:01 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Peter v1982 was one of the strong years for music sales, and also the year Cd was launched. Van Morrison and Sreve Miller were two Band era acts who benefitted from the new format and got attention with new material. But new material was the key in 1983. It also helped to be on Polygram / Mercury or Sony / Columbia.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 23:03:12 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Brien SzInteresting that I haven't been around in a while and I popped by today: Personally I don't think RR needed to tour back in 1983. He was establishing himself with film work. He was focused on that aspect of his creative endeavours and as we have seen, it has paid off nicely for him. The other guys were floundering. They were mostly kicking around in clubs and were looking for bigger fish. Sure they were respected but a nod of respect and 50 cents got you a cup of coffee. They wanted to try to get back in it. The early 80's had seen a nice revival of 60's bands and why not try to cash in on it. I always thought they mismanaged themselves. Business was not their strong suit for sure. I loved seeing them, don't get me wrong. They filled small halls in this area but I don't think that success always travelled well. I don't know how much RR would have brought to the table anyway. Sure he was the main songwriter but he wasn't the voice or the dramatic draw. RR knew they were a limited commodity. They had great songs, they just didn't have enough mainstream songs to carry themselves into the big spotlight. One of the keys to success for many of those 60's acts was that they came up with new material. The boys waited too long or just had nothing much to offer. I love their reunion debut but it was barely written by them and came out way too late to make much of difference by then.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 22:55:29 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VNice point, David. Well, you write them, you get paid!
Entered at Thu Sep 13 22:43:05 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
David PHere's a bit of ironic trivia -- Robbie receives songwriting & publishing royalties for a half-dozen songs on a 2011 Grammy award winning album. No, his own "How To Become Clairvoyant" wasn't even nominated. The answer is Levon's live "Ramble at the Ryman", which included six Band songs. As it was released on DVD video, as well as CD, those royalties are increased.
Thanks Adam for the MoFi RoA update.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 22:29:02 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
AdamDavid P - MoFi is now shipping their Rock Of Ages 180g double LP reissue. I received mine today, and it is beyond beautiful! They have reproduced the triple gatefold, and the quality is outstanding.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 22:02:19 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Mojo "Desire" feature
On our songwriting partner discussion, the section in Mojo's "Desire" feature this month suggests that Jaques Levy's co-credit role was "imaginative psychotherapist" drawing Dylan out.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 21:28:57 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
AdamBill - Thanks so much for the Garth article feedback! It's such an honor to present information that fellow fans really enjoy. Thank you for the comment!
Entered at Thu Sep 13 21:05:42 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Rick the Peacemaker
Interesting that Rick was the one who called Levon from the basement to ask him back AND the one who called Robbie in 1983. Good for Rick!
Entered at Thu Sep 13 21:00:26 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Pat BJeff, I assume everyone here--including me--posts in good faith. You don't assume that, obviously. That's your problem, and like I said, tough.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 20:45:37 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
David PSubject: Music From Big Pink
John D: As you noted, a hybrid-SACD version was previously released. The 180-gram LP version was just recently released by MoFi. They have also followed up their SACD version of "Stage Fright" with a vinyl version this year. A LP version of "Rock of Ages" is in the works. In addition, as part of their Dylan reissues, MoFi is releasing SACD & LP versions of the "official" Columbia Basement Tapes album.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 20:34:07 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Peter, 1983, of course. Which I have understood and acknowledged all along.Pat, - you wrote it, i responded. Fair game. And now you admit- no backdrop at all, or no reference to anything.That is exactly what i meant your statement possibly had. So, you admit it. But, to anyone who isn't on the ball regarding your nonsense, you certainly inserted it into the conversation for the specific intent to which i alluded. For them to think that was what you were talking about. Otherwise why write it then, why write it at all. the discussion was about that.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 19:19:32 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Pat BJeff, you spend a paragraph describing me as someone who would say something less than frankly in hopes that everyone would take what I said in one particular way when in reality I had no backup for my statement at all. Less than open, you might say. Look it up in the dictionary. That's what "cagey" means.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 19:02:23 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
ClaireSubject: From Levon's book:
"When we re-formed The Band that summer, I said, 'Let's not invite him,' but I think Rick did call Robbie, and he passed. He told Rick he was afraid when we did The Last Waltz that people would think it was one of those phony show-biz retirements and that we'd be back with the Big Comeback someday, and he just didn't want to do that."
Entered at Thu Sep 13 18:51:17 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VJeff, Pat was talking about 1983, as I was.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 18:43:34 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Pat. Typing "there are a lot of things that were said in private that will remain in private.".Though you apparently wish that typing that implies that a Bsnd memebr privately told you that they invited RR to join them in the 90s and he refused, typing that does not mean that a Band member told you Robbie was invited to join The Band and refused. It only means that ""there are a lot of things that were said in private that will remain in private.". Maybe you were referring to a private conversation you had with your next door neighbor, about lawncare. Being the deabte team cqptain in high school and all, well, you might have picked up some bad habits..
BTW, cagey, is not a word i'd ever used to describe you. And "tough", well geez, i got a good chuckle when i read that word. Your game is getting weak.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 18:38:34 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VI won't spend ages trawling the library, but the first thing I glanced out was Ruth Albert spencer's interviews from 1985.
ROBBIE: when the other guys decided they would get together and that they would go back on the road, I couldn't; I didn't want to do that at all. It just took on a different light to me - it was something in my past. I felt very good about it and I was very proud of the things we did together and everything, but I didn't feel that way now. It's not what I'm interested in now.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 18:29:40 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VExcellent point, David (about no Robbie affecting the chances of a record deal). The decision to take four Cates when they needed just the one must have seriously eroded profitability in 1983 … double travel, hotel expenses, food, plus extra equipment to fly and set up, let alone paying them. There was talk of not wanting to split up the Cates, but then you get another top session guitarist instead.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 17:31:27 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
David PAs Pat noted, the interviews can be researched in the library section. Just as an example, in one with Jody Denberg of KGSR FM radio Austin, Robbie specifically addressed what he thought when "the other members of the band decided that they wanted to get back out there." He stated:
"Oh, I felt fine with it. You know, I didn't want to stand in the way of them just playing music and the creative process or earning a living, any of that. So you know, they did that with my blessing. I just didn't want to do it any more."
What he didn't mention was whether he expressed displeasure at the time that the others would be using the name The Band without his involvement. Either way, it seems apparent that, even if he didn't receive an "official" overture to rejoin the others, he was informed of their intentions. It should be noted that, in addition to not reuniting to perform with the group, Robbie's choice to also not contribute in the creative process no doubt hurt the reformed group's ability to get a major record deal at that time.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 16:52:24 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Pat Bjeff, there are a lot of things that were said in private that will remain in private. If that makes me appear cagey to you, tough.
Yes, I've gone back and read the interviews, noted the dates, cross-referenced--you know, the hard work of becoming informed. Anyone here who is interested can do it, because you can draw a pretty clear picture of what happened by simply using Jan's library.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 16:48:13 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Bill MAdam: You did a terrific job - and a big favour to us all - in pulling all that detailed information out of Garth's head. I love the stuff about the Cotton Pickers and the nod to Peter Traynor. As you probably know, Traynor had been in a bunch of teenage groups with Robbie, and was also Robbie's gizmo guy - a job that he kept through the Hawkins days. He was also a bassist, so it's natural that he did stuff for Rick as well, as acknowledged in the Robbie/Rick interview in "Guitar Player" in the mid '70s.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 16:41:48 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Bill MSubject: the revenge of the rhythm section?
Presumably the four Canadians cut Levon in as a full and equal partner when he accepted their invitation to rejoin them in Woodstock (as opposed to being on salary like, say, Mick Taylor). Unless everybody'd signed a TLW-era agreement that they'd never perform again as the Band (which would fly in the face of the documented and video'd statements to the effect that they weren't splitting up, merely taking a break from the road), I don't see how Robbie would have been in a position to outvote the other four and prevent the Band from re-emerging. There are plenty of examples of an original member or two of some group or another going back on the road - without the blessing or involvement of the best-known member(s)(typically the front man). The story of the Guess Who is the one that comes to mind most readily, but there are others.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 16:28:33 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
John DSubject: Big Pink Original Remastered
David? Is it only the vinyl version that is new? I have the CD version from 2009; which is the Hybrid SACD Version. Same "Original Master Recording" on top of CD; from Mobile Fidelity. It gets very confusing; because today I checked and Mobile Fidelity has released what appears to be the same CD; without the Hybrid SACD marked on it, today again for 2012. Can you help me out on all these different versions.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 14:03:22 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Pete-I'm sure there are dozens of references in which Band members (particularly Rick and Levon) have said they did not ask RR to particpate in the 80s Band. I don't collect interviews they way you and you Pat do, but i don't doubt that you are both aware of this and probably know just where to look to find the passages.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 13:46:08 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VThe seeds of the feud must go back to November 76, as evidenced by the fact that Levon never played “Dixie” again, not that the RSO All Stars did much Band material. But he participated in the TLW interviews. The reason that 1983 looms large is that I’m sure somewhere there is mention of Robbie declining to participate. Which means he was asked. Which means they also had to get his permission, which would have rankled.
As a fellow Cancerian, I note some subtle sideswipes in Robbie’s interview (and in previous ones). Notably, circa 1968 – 76 interviews always suggested The Hawks were the hardest working band in the business, together continually. Levon’s absence for the hugely-influential Basement Tapes period was never, never mentioned. We’re always reminded of it now (in terms like “we were so pleased to get him back”). There’s also the remark on drummers, which echoes a British quote (can’t remember who) that it’s always the drummer who thinks he deserves more writing credit. Robbie quickly steps back from the comment, but it reminded me of the earlier one. Of course Levon was not “a drummer” but a singer, mandolin player, guitar player, bass player, harp player AND drummer.
On Bill Wyman and various riffs, I've seen him recently. I'd go with Keef's version.
The dissolution reflects on events of the previous two years. I still find it astonishing that in early 74 they are part of the (up to that date) biggest US tour with the largest number of applications for tickets, and just months later are playing support to CSNY, and then are third on the bill at Wembley, below CSNY and Joni Mitchell. Why? Weren’t they getting the top billing offers? There are suggestions that the pre-1976 US tour had empty seats. The mid-70s were an odd time and 1977 was to see a somersault in the whole rock thing anyway.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 08:33:10 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
BWNWITennThere's some lengthy footage in "I Ain't In It For My Health" of Levon and Larry Campbell collaborating on the unfinished Hank Williams lyric "You'll Never Again Be Mine," which generally bears out what Campbell said in the article. It's been awhile since I saw it, but I recall that the process was essentially Larry Campbell saying, "Which do you like better, A or B?" and Levon responding, "B." Or Levon saying things like, "Why don't you make it sadder?," and Campbell going off and doing that. I don't think that rises to the level of songwriting, yet Levon has a credit on the song. It seems a little reprehensible to demand - whether implicitly or explicitly - a co-write from someone in your employment, but Campbell didn't seem to have a problem with it. The film also does a good job of showing how much Levon's stubborness frustrated those who were close to him, including Campbell, particularly his refusal to attend the Grammys to receive his lifetime achievement award.
Some of Dylan's vocal phrasing in "Long and Wasted Years" reminds me a lot of Randy Newman, especially on the lines "I ain't seen my family in twenty years" and "if I ever hurt your feelings I apologize."
Entered at Thu Sep 13 06:48:02 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0You 2 guys ( P & P) still can't argue on the up and up.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 06:37:18 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Yikes, I thought we settled all this years ago!
Ari, there’s a simple explanation why Richard is credited on ‘When You Awake’. He must have had a hand in writing the song. Why else would his name appear in the credits? And Robbie must have contributed to the songwriting as well, or at least have been “in the room” or have been supportive while the song was being written. That seems to be the metric that has been used on other Band songs. Of course there’s always the possibility that Richard was just being generous, as we’ve heard it phrased looking at it from the other direction.
The Beatles example has been mentioned and it reminded me of Paul McCartney’s recollection of the writing of ‘Hey Jude’. According to Paul he wrote the song pretty much independently and was playing it for John to get some feedback. When he got to the line “the movement you need is on your shoulder” he told John, not to worry, and that he was going to change/fix or improve that line (I’m paraphrasing). John’s reaction was to tell Paul not to change the line…that it was the best part of the song. So Paul kept the line as is. Song credit “Lennon/McCartney”. Thanks John.
Monetary compensation may be a motivating factor in any songwriting dispute, but my sense is that the legacy of creating something can be an equally important reason. A single name next to a song title on a group album seems to indicate that one individual was more important to the creation of the “final” product, which includes all of the aspects of making music…..songwriting, arranging, performance etc. Lines may be blurred further because of the uniquely collaborative methods the Band utilized….especially on their earliest and best work.
Robbie surely played a hugely important role in planting the seeds. But the process doesn’t end there.
By the way Ari, thanks for the Festival Express footage link. Incredible!
Entered at Thu Sep 13 06:32:22 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Pat BCould they have toured as The Band without RR? There were definite negotiations. Coincidentally, in 1983.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 05:33:44 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Peter- did you really type this: "The 1983 reunion is designed to re-fill the coffers with cash. Robbie declines to join in.... "? ReAlly- is that how it went? you think RR refused an invitation top join The Band in the 80s?- You are going on record as writing that he was invited to join The Band Reunion in the 80s??Really..... you know this for fact...
Entered at Thu Sep 13 05:26:24 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Pat BAri, that is one beautiful video. Makes me think that there are some tapes somewhere of those complete FE performances. Certainly, a potent reminder of the OQ's power.
Jeff, is there still a music business? I'm unaware of it.
You still see a huge amount of hatred for RR all over the internets. But in the grand scheme of things it means next to nothing. Dixie/Great Divide? Now, that's something.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 04:49:48 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Web: My link
Subject: Bobby Unchained
Holy shit- you must read the coming attractions at that Rolling Stone link i placed above. An excerpt from the Dylan interview in this friday's Rolling Stone. GAZOWEE!
Talks bout songwriting too.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 04:34:19 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Calvin, the phenomenon is amazing, and i saw this, and alot more, coming soon as RR was allowed to visit Levon at his death bed.
The fact is though, i don't doubt RR was totally devastated by Levon's going. And i don't doubt that he truly felt the need to sit with him. I am not saying it was a PR ploy. I don't doubt RR wishes things had been different.But I am saying that soon as he was allowed to visit i knew the PR machine would be going in to play sooner, rather than later. This Margolis gal did not waste any time....Maybe she was nudged..
The fact is, RR controls The Band business, but Levon's estate owns Levon's share. Then there is publishing. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I am saying a chapter has come to an end.....but the showe must go on....There are persona; careers too. RR is still alive, and he is a music business force. Levon's gone. his memory isn't, but he is. Levon did his thing all these years, noone is dishonoring him in any way, shape or form ....But, a chapter has come to an end, and RR is still very much alive.
Garth is alive too, thank the lord. And I expect we'll still receive plenty of great music from Garth.I don't know, but i doubt he will say anything to stir or promote or continue any controversy.I'm betting Garth just wants the music to be loved. Regardless of what he could say, Garth wants people to love The Band and The Bands's music.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 03:59:57 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
CalvinYa know Ari, I have both of Sixto Rodriguez's albums-Cold Fact is OK in my mind, and the other is mediocre. I mean the guy penned a nice lyric, but you can completely get why they didnt sell. On the other hand Sugarman is a pretty good movie as Music Documenteries go.
Im a little intrueged by the softening of anger against Robbie since Levon's passing. I for one, while being completely in Robbie's camp, never held it against Levon for a minute his anger about the residuals. On the other hand I thought it quite odd that people who had never met either man spewed such anger at Robbie based on some interviews and a book.
That seemed odd to me.
As for Robbie being elegant and the fight being one sided-yeah Robbie never got into it, but quite honestly any PR person would have told him that he'd come off much better if he stayed out of and seemed "above the fray" as oppossed to getting into a pissing match via interviews. So lets not give Robbie sainthood just yet.
Entered at Thu Sep 13 01:20:24 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Great post,Ari.to be totally honest,I've always been a huge levon supporter.but,over time,my love for Levon continued,but I saw his blind spot.He was and remains special to my life but he did wrong.Thats cool,he was a wonderful HUMAN being,warts and all.RR merits better than this hatred.He too is human and has shortcomings and has probably made mistakes.We all do.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 23:52:26 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Bill MRe credits, there's also Colin Linden's statement, in the liner notes to the BARK best-of, to the effect that Richard Bell had written all of the song ""Jericho" by himself before others changed a few words and got co-credits.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 23:00:59 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
AriWeb: My link
Subject: Ain't No More Cane
Levon and Rick and Bob "sing" Ain't No More Cane together at Lone Star.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 23:00:01 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
AriWeb: My link
Subject: You Don't Know Me
Richard in 83.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 22:56:38 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
AriWeb: My link
I think Peter said everything that needs to be said, I don't really think there is any evidence whatsoever that points to Levon as having had a role in the songwriting whatsoever. Strip it down and it's still "the song". I know the conversation won't end there but it really should. Everybody loves Levon so much (as do I) to say that he was out of line here. I mean for goddsakes he single handedly destroyed another man's name and reputation. I think Robbie is as hated as he is loved.
These are quotes from just two youtube pages. "ROBBIE IS AND WAS AN A**HOLE blccleaning 2 months ago
Check out the faces on Rick & Eric when that creep says "songs I wrote" - unbelievable jerk. They all wrote the songs - together. Janison2001 3 months ago
Now come on, don't tell me Robbie is a jerk. He had his act together and disciplined himself to work and provide The Band with a great catalogue. Strawberry Wine is a great song but it doesn't hold a candle to Dixie or The Weight. Those songs are fables, great pieces of writing. I don't see how it's even possible to have two people write a song like The Weight or Acadian Driftwood or All la Glory. It's just not true. I think the real argument is based on GREED. That Robbie was greedy and took all the money and then ditched The Band. From all I know about them it seems like The Band was blessed in having ONE member that was able to live a non-rock n` roll life. He spent his time writing while they were partying. Maybe his ego did damage his image in Last Waltz, but he isn't even singing any of the songs. When I first watched the movie I thought LEVON wrote all the songs cause he sang most of them. Robbie doesn't even indicate that he wrote them in the movie. And then he gets all this criticism for being in a one-way fight. I think he's the most elegant rock star of the past 50 years. He's a complete supporter of the arts and at the end of the day that seems more important than just money.
I think everyone should see the film Searching for Sugarman. It's a new film about the musician Rodriguez who was all but forgotten after releasing two albums that were masterpieces in the late 60s. He's 70 now and has recieved NO royalties from Sussex Records even though he sold half a million records in South Africa and was an international superstar there for over 30 years and no one told him. Meanwhile he's working construction in Detroit living in near poverty. The man is a genius and when the topic of not recieving royalties comes up, he has NO COMPLAINTS. The guy was just on Letterman and he still doesn't have to much money to his name.
I am also certain that when Robbie's autobiography comes out there will nothing but good words for Levon. This whole fuss reminds me of that song "The Rumor".
Anyways I attached something I think you'll all really love. It is a live performance of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down and a KILLER PERFORMANCE OF RICHARD MANUEL SINGING ACROSS THE GREAT DIVIDE. These are outtakes from the Festiva Express tour. Really breathtaking.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 20:58:11 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VI have a sneaking suspicion that Pat had already made that 1983 connection, David. I reckon it's clear. The 1983 reunion is designed to re-fill the coffers with cash. Robbie declines to join in. Suddenly the big payday becomes a mediocre payday. That's where it starts.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 20:20:01 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
David PPat B: One significance regarding 1983 is that is when the Band members, minus Robbie, reunited to perform again under the name The Band.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 19:15:53 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Pat BJed, already a number of good articles are circulating about Dylan's latest "collaborators"--in fact, other writers who he quotes or re-writes. It's always been a fascinating part of Dylan's technique.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 19:07:37 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
CalvinYet again the songwriting discussion raises it somewhat ugly head-I do find it pretty interesting (Especially as Ive longed believed Robbie's version of events) that a longtime associate of Levon's who didnt even know Robbie thinks that Levon is half write and half wrong.
Im actually rather surprised the Campbell gave that interview, Im sure a lot of his cohorts in Levon's camp will be none to happy when they read it.
More importantly Im happy to hear yet another mention of Robbie working on his Autobiography.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 17:23:45 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Pat BObviously, it wasn't how all four understood it. The proof of it is in the songwriting credits that extend back from Big Pink into the Basement Tapes and beyond.
It is interesting to read the reactions to Larry Campbell's article on that site as almost everyone hinges their reactions on one misperception or another.
There is another rather large question that these discussions always seem to avoid. Why did Levon's logic free zone wait until 1983 to fall into place? Nothing about the songwriting realities changed at that point. So what did change?
Entered at Wed Sep 12 17:14:09 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VI thought Robert Hunter was a simple case with Garcia. He did the lyrics, as Bernie Taupin did with Elton John. That makes a straightforward basis for division. With Dylan, I’d guess he collaborated on the lyric.
We do know that Tears of Rage and Wheels On Fire were straight music / lyric splits … Richard talks about Dylan handing him the lyrics. I’d guess Dylan has done it both ways round (which is NOT a reference to some of the odder interpretations of Just Like A Woman!)
I didn’t say I thought Larry Campbell was TREATED like Elvis’s songwriters, but that the song wouldn’t have had much chance without the right guy to sing it, which is a major consideration, and a valid one. Levon was the right voice, and Campbell seems to me to have written with Levon in mind, much as Robbie says he wrote with Rick, Levon or Richard in mind. That’s another aspect, but songwriters have been writing with specific voices in mind for years. I imagine Burt Bacharach had Dionne Warwick ringing in his head as he was writing, even though others then did great versions of those songs.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 16:32:21 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
JedSubject: Corporate Songwriting
It seems credit due in songwriting can be approached from a particular kind of partnership that seems to take on characteristics of a corporate entity.For example,it was always Lennon/McCartney, the true songwriter notwithstanding.Mick writes lyrics,Keef does the tunes? How much does each really contribute,& in what manner,to each song? Yet,again,a corporate type thing going on--it's alwaysJagger/Richards.Could Satisfaction even exist without the riff Keef woke up to play into a tape recorder in the middle of the night?What if it was Bill Wyman who introduced that riff? Would he then be credited?King &Goffin? Dylan/Hunter?Garcia/Hunter?Who knows? The whole process seems elusive to me.But,listening over and over to Tempest,it amazes me that ONE person can write such compelling lyrics and music.Amazing.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 16:17:31 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0What Campbell is talking about, in his experience, may or may not be the same amount of input the Band guys had ...... now remember, there were 4 other guys.Not just Levon, when it comes to Band contributions... And Levon was talking about songwriting for all 4. Said it was how all 4 understood it
Regarding Levon's input on Campbell's songs, per Larry's "testimony", is that editing? Probably it was more like consulting. i think it would be a good question for Peter to ask Larry. Was Campbell in the same position as Elvis's "cowriters", as Peter frames it?.No, My bet is Levon would have sung (recorded) the song anyway. But, giving him cowriting was a sensible thing to do in this case,Larry does not say there was a gun to his head involving his choice. Where editing, or where consulting, becomes songwriting- i disagree with Peter that having the concept of a song is enough to constitute full songwriting of a song.... there is a line,- because editing or consulting is not songwriting- but there is a difference too.there are lines you cross when you are songwriting. And a concept does not a song make.Cliiping words, does not a a song make, .... alot of editing, alot of reworking, a lot of research, does nto a song make, but then gain, there comes a point. A songwriter can do alot of this on his owwn also... and sometimes, it takes some one to just say a very simple thing to give you your impetus to finish or correct that song. Larry was there, we weren't, but he does seem to indicate that Levon was a expert consultant and effected the outcome greatly- so, how do you pay someone for that and if you honestly feel that your song would not have EVER reached THAT PARTICULAR same consclusion without THAT expert consultant what do you do? When the expert consultant in question is this one you give him songwriting , was it warranted? Larry seems to think so .....
There are lots of conversations that are gonna take place now that never did nnd never would have before, and many people will word their thoughts differently than they would have if the conversation took place before Levon died. Levon would be the first admit that as Campbell put it, once he made his mind up about something he had a "logic free zone." Would Levon admit it verbally- maybe he would, nmaybe he would just make that goofy face he could make, his cheeks sucked in, shoulders scrunched together, elbows in and his long armed bent up some,,his big hands outstrectched, his way of admnitting, yeah,man, i fucked up, i'm only human , then smiling fast and start laughing... Completely pricelss, and yeah, the guy was very fucking human, and he knew it.Logic free zone, hell yeah. The thing is, poeple who have seen that logic free zone, were very careful not to ever enter that zone themsleves, cause it was the Bermuda Fucking Triangle. So conversations that never would have happened before, will happen now. People who are afraid of repercussions will still keep their mouths shut anyway.but peopel who are untouchable, did their time, and are eloquent, will speak more freely. In Campbells' case, you can take what he says to the bank far as truthfulness. I don't know him, only met him a few times, and was struck by his politeness, interest, courtesy, and his memory, but many people I know well, swear by the guys, persoanlity, honestly, and integrity.
Separately, in general, for the most part, the fact that RR is alive, and Levon isn't, can and likely will effect what does and doesn't get said. And more and more will get said. It's the music business people, and the show must go on.
And there are lots of articles to get written, lots of people to interview, lots of headlines, and RR is the man standing.
Kinda like a mafia war. Even if you were never in the bloodshed, ya make yer peace.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 15:56:30 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
David PSubject: Songwriting
Speaking of co-writing, I wonder what the process was like between Dylan and Robert Hunter. The two collaborated on the lyrics for 9 of the 10 tracks on "Together Through Life" and the opening track, "Duquesne Whistle", on "Tempest". The two had also collaborated on two songs on "Down in the Groove" in 1988. It would be interesting to know how Mr. Hunter approached the challenge of writing with a true legendary artist and what his role was in the chain of writing.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 09:51:13 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VGood to see Tenn back with a most interesting link on songwriting. Defining roles in any creative process can be argued, but from what Larry Campbell says about Growin’ Trade, the role was a good editor, not a co-writer. Campbell was generous in sharing credit, but then again Campbell was in the position of Elvis’s songwriters, in that without the right guy to sing it, the song wasn’t going to get a chance in the first place.
A good editor, like a good producer, has a role, but it’s not co-writing. I’ve edited three series of fiction short stories for foreign learners, and I will point out plot problems, time discrepancies, bits that go nowhere, clumsy lines. I will suggest plot improvements and better lines. (Unlike some of the people who have edited me, I only ever suggest, never just make changes). I never consider that to be “co-writing” because it’s all someone else’s concept. Polishing a car is not the same as making or designing it.
Robbie's comparison with Garth is a point that doesn't come up in the discussion, yet in terms of the musical palette on something like "Jupiter Hollow" his contribution was immense. Immense in production and playing terms, but Garth has never claimed it to be "co-writing". I think Garth's right. Once the song is created, some one could strip away all the production, sing it solo with a ukulele, and it's still "the song."
Entered at Wed Sep 12 08:34:18 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
AdamAri - There could be many possibilites. Maybe Richard started out with a cryptic lyric, and Robbie took it and worked with it. Maybe by the time it really took form, the folk/guitar oriented structure suggested Richard play something else (as Robbie says on the documentary). There is some subtle acoustic guitar on the track, so maybe Levon did that. Or maybe Richard played the drums, with Levon on perucssion. I think the song itself fits with Richard and Robbie's other material together, but the odd structure and Richard's switch the drums suggested Rick sing it. Who knows?
Entered at Wed Sep 12 08:31:50 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
BWNWITennWeb: My link
Some interesting comments in American Songwriter from Larry Campbell on the ongoing Band songwriting controversy, see link.
In all of the reviews of Bob Dylan's new album, I have yet to see anyone point out the remarkable, albeit slightly paler, resemblance Dylan has in the "Duquesne Whistle" video to Satan, aka Mr. Legba, as portrayed by Robert Judd in the Ralph Macchio movie "Crossroads."
Entered at Wed Sep 12 07:13:54 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Web: My link
Subject: The Band Guestbook, May 2012
Speaking of Norway, I see that the pride of Stratford, Ontario has caused a fuss there. Unfortunately it's Justin Bieber and not Richard Manuel.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 07:11:34 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Web: My link
Subject: Ronnie Hawkins and the Hawks
Graham: Yes, I do recall miniskirts on certain teachers, especially when they had to stretch up to write across the top of the blackboard. I also recall "Easy Rider" being shown in the gym one morning in grade 9. I can only imagine what certain parties thought of THAT decision. Likely the first time I heard "The Weight", anyway.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 02:34:31 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Bill MAri: Maybe just a case of Rick needing to sing another suitable song on the album? EH wouldn't have fit, no matter who sang it.
Entered at Wed Sep 12 00:43:26 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
AriSubject: When You Awake
Curious about why Richard is credited on When You Awake. This song has always confused me, at least the background has. It seems like a completely guitar oriented song and I think Robbie even says that on the Classic Albums DVD. If Richard had a hand in writing it why didn't he sing it? Is that usually the case? You write a song, you are the singer. Either he was extremely generous or he didn't have all that much to do with the song's writing. Someone once speculated that he wrote only the last bit of the song, that seems to make sense to me though I find it hard to believe he would have handed the song over to Rick because I'm under the impression that Richard can sing anything and it will work. Look at Endless Highway for example, I often prefer Richard's take on the vocals (but it's usually Robbie's guitar that makes the Before The Flood version sparkle). Another question I have would be what Levon did on the song. I know Richard is on drums so is Levon playing rhythm guitar or his mandolin? I don't hear one. It could be low in the mix be seems to have been left out of the song.
Entered at Tue Sep 11 23:15:45 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
JTLocation: Victoria and Toronto intermittently
Subject: NYT review Tempest
Joan: Though the review is supportive and somewhat positive, there is not much substance there for an album that may be among the best of the year. Like Peter did, I think I would have spent a little more time and space in my description and analysis. Mr. Pareles knows what needs to be said and has often done very good work. I found this piece to be somewhat 'thin' and so it does not succeed in telling the reader enough about Tempest. For a major album, that in my view, falls short. The cynic might conclude that there is 'damning with faint praise.'. Certainly Metacritic was not overwhelmed by this review (7/1O for NYT). I think an opinion at the end of descriptive writing of a music review is vital. That was lacking here.
Entered at Tue Sep 11 22:31:35 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
JoanWeb: My link
Subject: Dylan review from NYTimes
Entered at Tue Sep 11 22:23:09 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Entered at Tue Sep 11 21:58:03 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Say prayers for those we hold dear on this memorial day for those who gave up so much to protect their country.xoxox
God brings men into deep waters, not to drown them, but to cleanse them. ~John Aughey
Count the garden by the flowers,
never by the leaves that fall.
Count your life with smiles
and not the tears that roll.
Happiness can be found,
even in the darkest of times,
if one only remembers to
turn on the light.
RIP all who have given their lives for the 9/11/2011 tragedy.
Entered at Tue Sep 11 20:54:29 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
JTLocation: Victoria and Toronto intermittently
Subject: Dylan Tempest lives up to its high praise
Peter Stone Brown has indeed written a superb and insightful review of Tempest. Pareles (NYT) on the other hand was somewhat disappointing (not the usual). This lives up to all the high praise given it by previous reviewers. I look forward to the shows in Vancouver (Oct 12) and Toronto (Nov. 14) with high expectations that we might be graced with some of the new work from Tempest.
Entered at Tue Sep 11 20:45:28 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Bill MWeb: My link
Subject: "Tempest" review notes Robertsonian guitar work
The link above is to yet another positive review of Dylan's "Tempest". It says that "'Narrow Way' is a rumbling late-career classic, with a repetitive Robbie Robertson-styled jackknife riff slashing the responses to the calls of the verse. On the chorus, a spiritual deal is proposed: “If I can’t work up to you, you’ll surely have to work down to me someday.”
Entered at Tue Sep 11 17:18:06 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Bill MPat B: Peter V should know. He's the one who agitated for 'Bugle Bob' (I forget the surname) to be kicked out of the MSOs to make room for Ray. Worked out well, I'd say.
Entered at Tue Sep 11 17:08:30 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
David PSubject: Tempest
It's a somber day of reflection on the events that transpired 11 years ago.
The darkness of Dylan's "Tempest" seems to fit the mood. I've been listening to the 2-LP set, which also came with the CD counterpart. In a simple twist of fate, the blu-ray version of "Titanic" was released Monday. After playing "Tempest" several times I revisited "Time Out Of Mind", particularly the haunting "Not Dark Yet".
Also on the turntable this week is the stunning new Mobile Fidelity LP reissue of "Music From Big Pink".
Entered at Tue Sep 11 09:47:28 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Keyboards rule, OK?
Pat, if you're adding to an existing guitar, bass, drums band, wouldn't it be more useful to add a competent keyboard player rather than the world's best ever trumpet player?
Entered at Mon Sep 10 21:53:12 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VWith great reluctance, because I have come to dislike the man's avarice so much now, I have to admit that “Tempest” is a masterpiece and at first couple of listenings, his best album since “Street Legal.” Best track: Tin Angel. But I think “The Late Great Johnny Ace” does it better than “Roll On John.”
Entered at Mon Sep 10 21:34:21 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Pat BPeter, I just feel like keyboardists have finally reached the Miles Davis realm.
Entered at Mon Sep 10 20:51:57 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VI dunno, Pat. Some of the places they have to play you wouldn't want to turn your back on the audience.
Entered at Mon Sep 10 18:16:43 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Pat BIt's about time keyboardists started turning their backs to the audience.
Entered at Mon Sep 10 17:08:18 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Open The Door (To your Heart)
This is the band Van had earlier this year. He didn't play piano then, though i have seen him play piano a few times in the past … he used to do 'Scandinavia' at one time. So piano AND organ. Like all the best bands …
Entered at Mon Sep 10 15:02:38 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
John DWeb: My link
Subject: Open The Door "Live" in East Belfast
Van the man live. It's mentioned that this might be the first time he did it in public?
Entered at Mon Sep 10 14:57:53 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Ah, the Darrell Banks song. I'd forgotten it. A great soul song.
Van's is very typically Van (see link), even to having some lines about his enemies etc with the usual streak of paranoia. But excellent.
Entered at Mon Sep 10 14:51:31 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
John DSubject: Open The Door
When I first saw the title Peter, I thought it might be a cover version of the old Darell Banks tune.
Entered at Mon Sep 10 13:57:30 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Open The door
Open The Door (To Your Heart) from Van Morrison's new album (out October 1st) is available as a download on UK iTunes. Well worth 99p.
So how many of us went for the De Luxe edition of Tempest? I was interested in the vintage magazine covers, but didn't realise they'd been bound in a notebook … i.e. 50% blank paper for £3 extra. So … I'm about to listen …
Entered at Mon Sep 10 02:30:25 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
AdamThank you guys so much. Peter, I agree with you. That closing line of Garth's gave me chills! I was so happy to read more. Thank you guys so much for the support.
Entered at Mon Sep 10 00:04:07 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
RogerLocation: Birmingham UK
Subject: See you in Bath
I'll look for you in Bath next Friday Peter.
Entered at Sun Sep 9 22:48:09 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Simone Felice
The weird thing is that this will be the third time to see him in eighteen months, and they've all been the first night of a tour. But he knocks anyone off the stage!
Entered at Sun Sep 9 20:37:49 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
JoanSubject: John D / Adam
John, thank you for the Obama graphic. It's great!
Adam Your piece is terrific. Really great reading. Good job!
Entered at Sun Sep 9 20:12:43 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Mike NomadSubject: Garth update
Muchly appreciated Adam. Thanks.
Entered at Sun Sep 9 16:01:43 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Simone Felice
No, Bob … many thanks … but I should have a copy of the EP in my hand next Friday. We have tickets to see him at the Chapel Arts Centre in Bath on Friday evening. The band name has changed from Simone Felice Band to Simone Felice Group on the tickets. Don't know if this is significant. I just hope Simi is there.
Entered at Sun Sep 9 15:03:52 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Bob F.Location: Hudson valley, NY
Web: My link
Subject: New Simone Felice
Peter V, have you heard this new Simone Felice yet?
Entered at Sun Sep 9 14:33:32 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: "They walk these hills"
Thanks for the extended interview, Adam. I love that line of Garth's.
Entered at Sun Sep 9 08:17:06 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
SkiesWeb: My link
Subject: Interesting Band
Interesting band, look out for more update from u.
Entered at Sun Sep 9 03:22:48 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Very nice. Once again kudos to you.
Entered at Sat Sep 8 22:03:30 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
LeeSubject: Collector Sale
Hi, Being an old friend of Jan's he has given me permission to mention items i have for sale. If interested please email Leegabites@hotmail.co.uk
45s Go Go Liza Jane/He Don't Love You(And He'll break Your Heart) Atco Records in Atco sleeve
He Don't Love You/The Stones I Throw Atlantic Records 1965 Made in England by Decca Records
I did have another but I loaned it years ago to a certain individual in Canada & its never been returned. I could quote Levon here on individuals in the music business but I won't.
Levon Helm Summertime Blues/Money picture sleeve Capitol Records Holland
Rick Danko Promotional copy What A Town(Stereo)/What A Town(Mono)
Jubilation Coloured Vinyl
Music From Big Pink (Gatefold)
Levon Helm Picture Disc Promotional item inc I Came Here To Party/ Sweet Johanna
Levon Helm inc Lucrecia
Rick Danko with inner sleeve
Keith Emerson Best Revenge (Inc Levon vocal Straight Between The Eyes)
You Are What You Eat
King Of Comedy
Album 1700 Peter Paul & Mary
Books Levon This Wheels On Fire Hardback The Band & America Hardback Cathy Smith Chasing The Dragon Hardback Ronnie Hawkins Last Of The Good Ol Boys Hardback Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks The Hawk Paperback Greil Marcus Invisible Republic signed & dated Basement Tapes Bill Graham My Life Inside Rock & Out Paperback Rock & Woodstock Paperback Like The Night Bob Dylan & The Road to the Manchester Free Trade Hall C.P. Lee signed
Discontinued CDs, Boxed Set The Band. Bootleg CDs All Basement Tapes & The Band Crossing The Great Divide Genuine Bootleg Series 4 (See Jan's list I have most of them) similar for sessions and Radio shows, etc.
Jubilation poster signed by all members
Japanese tour programme 1978
Rick Danko/Levon Helm
If anyone is interested please email. Many thanks.
Entered at Sat Sep 8 20:59:37 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Freewheelin'
Wonderful image! Thanks, John. Think I'll print it and put it on one of my three CDs.
Entered at Sat Sep 8 20:27:12 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
AdamWeb: My link
Subject: Garth article update
Hello guys! There is some updated content to my recent article/interview with Garth. He wanted to fill in some more details and memories of Levon, and they are beautiful. Please check the link and see for yourselves... you will enjoy it! Thanks so much.
Entered at Sat Sep 8 20:25:23 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Bob FSubject: So great!!
John D, Thanks. So great!
Entered at Sat Sep 8 19:11:52 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
John DWeb: My link
Subject: It's the Freewheelin' President
There you go.
Entered at Sat Sep 8 14:41:33 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
NorthWestCoasterLocation: Nordic Countries
Subject: Titanic and Dylan
Dylan's Tempest reminds me ...errrr... of my dog. She posted for a few years ago a faked Dylan interview as a April Fools post. In this "interview" Dylan spoke as a gb regular and said about her master: "Sailing on Titanic I would not have wished to share lifeboat with this fella."
Entered at Sat Sep 8 13:32:26 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Bob F.Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Web: My link
Subject: Peter Stone Brown's review of Tempest
There are at least a couple hundred reviews of the new Dylan record available to read on the Internet and in print. However, you will not find anyone explaining why this record is so great better then our own Peter Stone Brown.
Entered at Sat Sep 8 10:39:16 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Dlew919Web: My link
Subject: Don rich of buck Owens buckaroos
Did a version tntdodd. It's linked
Entered at Sat Sep 8 09:35:58 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Always look on the bright side of life
Al, look on the bright side. With Harry Redknapp going from England-prospect to AFC Bournemouth (in an advisory role) within months, we might meet up in the Championship next year. Wasn't it a previous meeting that took Jamie to Liverpool?
I was reading on the plane (Independent or Daily Mail?) that it was all a cunning strategy to aim really high for 7th place (behind Everton in sixth) thus getting into Europe when Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal get disqualified for overspending, though that doesn't work for Arsenal.
Entered at Sat Sep 8 07:41:11 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
FredSubject: Al's Big Red Blues in Mr. Rodger's Neighbourhood
Don't worry, things will turn around, you have to accept the fact that you are in a rebuilding mode, so it will take a while. LFC has the right gaffer in place to pull this off. It would be best if he switched Borini & Suarez's roles on the pitch (that's just my opinion) and I'd get rid of both Carragher & Gerrard. Carra's past it & I don't see Gerrard fitting into Mr. Rodger's tactical scheme of things. More youth on the pitch. From the games I've seen I really like Raheem Sterling even though he's, what, 10 years old?!? : )
Entered at Sat Sep 8 01:13:54 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Al EdgeSubject: Master Bob Sleighs 'em
Looks like ol' gravel tonsils has wowed the british critics with this new album. Just watched the BBC 2 Late Review Arts programme. They were bowled over. Don't think I've ever heard such superlatives since the Beatles Sgt Pepper. They literaly were in awe.
Si - good to see you mate. how's it going? Could you believe the deadline fiasco? I've been so disorientated by it I simply had to go into print to exorcise the demons it had invoked in me. Here it is - solely for you of course - if you've been similarly enraged by it then it might provide you with a tiny bit of solace - everyone else avert your eyes.
Like it or not, I simply cannot get my head around the unpalatable reality that this close season we have failed not simply to strengthen our team in the very area in which it has been so apparent we’ve been struggling for so long to match our Premier league peers but we have actually overseen a clear out that has grievously weakened it. Moreover, we’ve done this to a degree that prior to Friday seemed inconceivable.
Perhaps if I were some tight arsed accountant or a follower of Marine AFC or such other minion I might perhaps stand some chance of adopting the philosophical approach to comprehending the situation which seems to come as second nature to some. Perhaps it is the fact I have been marinated for so long in the lofty traditions of Liverpool Football Club which precludes my own instincts from adopting such an impassive erudite stance.
Up to now I think the sheer depth of the bewilderment I’ve felt has actually acted in restraining me from going into print on the subject. Fact is I’ve scarcely known how to articulate the inner turmoil I’ve felt about what I perceive as the mismanagement we’ve been witness to. Other than a few posts in the Arsenal Round Table thread concerning a linked bemusement I felt at the notion expressed by some – I can only presume by those not at the game - that Friday’s downer had zero impact on Sunday’s performance, I’ve kept my internet powder dry on this thing.
Not that I haven’t gone searching forlornly for some straws to cling to. I’m pretty sure I must have read and absorbed the vast majority of what’s been written on the subject since Friday. It has hardly made for the most appetising reading and the conflicting viewpoints have certainly done nothing to ease my own concerns. Rather they have added to them. What I’ve found almost as unbelievable as the non-event of the day itself has been the apparent determination of some to find a thread of rationale in the club’s absence of closing day transfer activity.
I rack my pitiful brain to try and understand where this stems from? Even allowing for the need for heightened financial frugality, how come there exists this seemingly firm resolve to make sense of what so many of us see at the very least incompetence, at worst sheer negligence, in ensuring the very minimum offensive footballing needs of this football club for the coming season were met? How so this mantra that such last minute austerity was actually warranted; that fans expressing their deep concerns are simply making a fuss, merely expounding groundless over-reaction and scaremongering stemming from expectancy levels which are set far too high and craving expenditure that cannot be justified.
Okay, so despite what I’ve just said I’m not going to be arrogant or apologist enough to argue against the requirement for some kind of long term balanced strategy where financial common sense ultimately marries with the club’s footballing aspirations. But implementing it in the way they did? At the time they did? Leaving the manager – and us – high and dry. Demoralising virtually an entire fan base? No way is that grounded in any considered strategy. The strategy of the mad house maybe.
And it’s not that such emotional wrought reactions are down simply to the gut feelings of dinosaurs like myself fuelled by countless years steeped in the trials and tribulations of this club, of traipsing back and forward to Anfield and wherever from Second Division obscurity to date. Talking with those I know and reading these boards there are countless younger fans from both near and far with a similar interpretation of events.
At heart, it is an interpretation informed by the disastrous second half to last season’s league campaign which told us in no uncertain terms that this particular transfer window was perhaps more crucial than most. That it needed to be one which addressed the yawning need for added midfield quality – which, with the arrival of the wonderful Joe Allen [aided by the emergence of the terrific Jonjo Shelvey] it most certainly did – but above all else for a significant increase in our goalscoring capacity.
Once we became depleted by the early departures of our three ageing yet reliable front men, let alone by the penultimate day loaning out of Andy Carroll, it became a case not of whether we were able to afford to bring in two recognized front men, but rather a matter of us not being able to afford not to bring them in. Our failure to meet this overriding necessity for the season ahead has meant all the fears expressed are actually soundly based and worryingly representative of the true situation we find ourselves faced with.
Perhaps, it also tells us that those who have greeted the transfer window outcome with a stoical air of acceptance and resignation surely have perceptions that originate from a complacency that is borne of short term expectations set too low, of a naivety as to what is required to meet even such low expectation and of an implicit trust in the competence of distant owners that is set too high.
Of course, none of us can pretend to know how things will turn out; or how they would have turned out had the desired signings been made. Only time will tell whether gut instincts will prove to be right or justified. All we can know for sure is how let down, nay, betrayed a huge number of us feel right now and how, rather than fashioned by the debit and credit ledgers of an accountant’s balance sheets or some half baked Beane theoretical value for money purchasing philosophy, our own instincts are based on what we’ve witnessed on the field of play.
The fact is last season we had a mixed bag of good and bad team performances, yet even many of the good performances failed to be translated into goals and victories. Three of the players who made significant contributions to many of the better performances despite Kenny’s apparent obsession with marginalising them were Kuyt, Bellamy and Maxi. The same three with limited opportunities also contributed quite tellingly to the meagre goalscoring totals we did manage to achieve. As mentioned above, all three have now gone along with Andy Carroll who, whilst contributing little for most of the season, gave more than strong hints at the tail end of the season that he would be capable in the future of more regular telling contributions himself. Perhaps even more than that given the chance.
Three of those who tended not to provide telling contributions to those better performances yet who, in spite of their clear shortcomings and miniscule contribution to the overall goal tally, were consistently deployed by the manager were Downing, Henderson and Adam. As we also know only too well the former two of the three are still with us.
We are now confronting a season – or half a season at least – devoid of the three ageing yet still genuine goalscoring threats and devoid also of the apparently revitalised Carroll. We have added to the team an unproven forward in Borini. Without pre-judging him the early indications based on half a dozen or so outings suggest he is a tad lightweight and will likely not be prolific in a goalscoring sense. It goes without saying I pray I am wrong on that count.
It leaves the team’s goalscoring burden on the shoulders of Suarez – as we know player of rare and tantalising ability but of hitherto no prolific goalscoring pedigree within a red shirt - and our redoubtable captain, whose goalscoring form if not his all round form appears to have all but deserted him hopefully only for the present time. Other than the foregoing we have youngsters of whom Sterling and Shelvey of those we know appear the best bets for a goal contribution. Again we are left praying that the two young forward signings Assaidi and Yesil manage to unveil goalscoring prowess at a level beyond what at other times might be considered even remotely feasible.
Reflecting upon it all, the phrase ‘but for an ‘ha’porth of tar’ keeps presenting itself in my mind. The capture of two reasonably competent front men to replace those gone [or, perhaps, the retention of Kuyt and Bellamy on reduced contracts – Bellamy’s with free helicopter shuttle service to his hometown - to slightly better the deals they’ve left for if such negotiations were ever conceivable?] was the least required for a club faced with a heavy European campaign on top of the usual demanding domestic challenges.
Two such players would have complemented what was already in place to make Liverpool a reasonably credible force and provide a sense of hope and reassurance amongst the senior players, manager and supporters that the season might yield some promise – and perhaps even more. It is inconceivable that two such players did not exist who would have fitted within the financial compass of a club of the global stature we purport to be. It did not have to be Dempsey and Sturridge, although each was manifestly of the sort of level and versatility to suit our needs.
The club, the manager and the supporters needed the owners to show, by ensuring such a procurement, a gesture of faith in the club and their own managerial appointment that was commensurate with what was merely reasonable footballing ambition. Instead the gaping hole in the bow of the good ship LFC left by its ageing yet reliable departures has been left unrepaired and reliant on a combination of overworked stars and youthful promise to face the inevitable challenging waters that lie ahead. It is extremely doubtful whether a million weasel letters from John Henry, no matter how expertly their wording might appear to aspire to financial common sense, will compensate for the ha’aporth of tar that was really needed to negotiate the forthcoming challeges.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 23:02:25 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Rockin ChairLocation: Pacific Northwest
Web: My link
Subject: The Masters
While rambling around after looking at David's link, brought me to this. Aother one of the master song writers,pickers, and entertainers. Along with Glenn Campbell & Ricky Skaggs.
This is sort of a nice slice of history.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 21:39:25 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
Subject: Joe South
In memory of the great Joe South, here's a link to the unedited version of Aretha Franklin's "Chain of Fools". It includes the 58 sec. intro featuring just Joe's guitar and Ms. Franklin, which was later edited out.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 20:49:50 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
sadavidWeb: My link
Subject: your TV guide
PBS's "Great Performances" tonite has Sir Paul doing his _Kisses On The Bottom_ repertoire @ Capitol Studios in Los Angeles.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 19:59:16 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Doug DeliaLocation: holyoke
Subject: mt. holyoke date
Responding to Rhythm Jimmy's post from some time ago. I did see the Band at Mount Holyoke (South Hadley), but I don't think it was 69 maybe 70,71?
I think members of the local band Clean Living opened. Any info send to firstname.lastname@example.org
Entered at Fri Sep 7 19:32:44 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Rockin ChairLocation: Pacific Northwest
JT, I'm glad you expanded your thoughts a little. It seemed a little narrow for those of us in 60's. There has been a lot that is amazing, and althought your assesment of Dylan's work and the Beatles can't be argued, there is too many amazing contributions particularly in the field of music to put down here.
To add to your bit of lyric on Joe South,......JQ
So they while away the hours,
In their ivory towers,
'Till they're covered up with flowers,
In the back of a black limousine.
Sounds like a kind of hopeless exisience, not a life.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 19:18:14 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
JTLocation: Victoria and Toronto intermittently
After I wrote yesterday and thought about it a bit more, I'd like to add that we are likely in a musical Renaissance and are all very privileged to have heard and seen Bob Dylan over the years. The evolution of Beatles, Band, Cohen, and countless others has ensued and they are all part of that Renaissance. When we look back at musical history, there are periods or eras that 'started' musical movements. Early jazz, early rock and early baroque and classical have been enduring. Dylan did the most to promote and highlight the poetic lyrical song as something worthy of popular attention. For this, he has married the literal with music in a way never seen before. That is an accomplishment worthy of high praise. It is unique and with the quality of the lyric being outstanding so often, for his body of work, the Nobel Prize in literature should be right around the corner. Though not necessary, this prize will confirm what all of us already know - there are pieces by Dylan which are exemplary and superb. These works are enduring and the skill and imagination demonstrated is most worthy of this acknowledgement.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 18:41:05 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
John DSubject: Bob Dylan / Tempest
Just got my copy. Off for a listen
Entered at Fri Sep 7 17:29:31 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
SimonI'd be surprised if that Down In The Flood DVD contained any actual Dylan/Band music. Sounds like it'll be footage plus interviews overlaid with incidental music.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 16:57:59 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Hi Jeff - I'm with you totally on that assessment. Particularly about Bill - it's a bit frustrating that the president can't find a venue to deliver those type of stats regularly. I see it as a media problem and the recalcitrance of elected Democrats at all levels to stand up and proudly shout down the years of GOP horseshit -
Entered at Fri Sep 7 16:00:44 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Bill MSolomon: Thanks for the link. It's a bit jarring to hear our guys repeatedly referred to as "The Hokes". Those accents - what can you do?
Entered at Fri Sep 7 13:45:11 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Dlew919Web: My link
Subject: If you like the Beatles and you like guitars...
Check out the link.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 10:32:02 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Dylan videos
Here's a Biograph-style project … an official DVD full of Dylan promo videos. Bruce did one. After all "Subterranean Homesick Blues" may or may not be the parent of rock video, but it's pretty close (there's a B&W Kinks video of Dead End Street which is also seminal). The only thing I liked about the Christmas album was the video, and I like the new one. Is there enough?
Entered at Fri Sep 7 10:29:50 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
SolomonWeb: My link
Subject: Down In The Flood DVD Dylan & The Band
The link above is a clip from the DVD.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 10:20:13 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Subject: Try link again …
Sorry … hope this works.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 09:34:47 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VWeb: My link
Subject: Down In The Flood DVD Dylan & The Band
Just had this recommended on amazon.co.uk. It sounds interesting. Just ordered it. It's mainly interviews but includes Garth, Ronnie Hawkins, Sid Griffin etc.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 08:38:54 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Just can't not make this post. The three nights of the Democratic National Convention have actually made me optimistic about the future of The United states of America. This is the most sensible, logical, truthful,surgically concise, multifocused , political actvitiy i have seen in what feels like forever. One powerful, and truthful speaker after another, good solid and truthful points made one after the other.And all the bases were covered.
It makes you realize just how much damage the opposition determined to unseat Obama, the members of Congress determined to prevent progress during Obama's Presidency, have done. Obama still has to win the election-i believe he will. And it is yet to be seen what happens in the congressional elections. This country has plenty of yokels, blind eyed right wing hate filled people.I deal with em all the time.But, there are good people i this country too.-Billy and Obama and the Democrats talked to anyone with sense...... and pride in their country.
Bill Clinton is still Da Man- watching him yesterday i was ecstatic, he set the stage perfectly for Biden and Obama tonight. Was like watching Michaelangelo or Miles Davis working.
Entered at Fri Sep 7 00:21:42 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Dlew919Subject: Shame about joe south
Did Rick ever do a joe south song? Games people play would seem to e be a good fit forrick...
Entered at Fri Sep 7 00:12:30 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
JTLocation: Victoria and Toronto intermittently
Subject: The Time of Dylan
Jed: Well spoken. I couldn't agree more. Everyone lives in times when they have had an opportunity to relate to something extraordinary . For we 60+s, it has been Bob Dylan and the Beatles.
Entered at Thu Sep 6 23:47:24 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter is correct.Nothing shockingly violent at all,unless the viewer lacks a sense of humor.I am very excited for the release of Tempest.The Dylan show I saw in Bethel represented,it seemed,an achievement of Dylan's dream for finding the particular sound he's been seeking his entire musical life.Bebop,ragtime,jazz,blues,R&R,country,jam band,twin guitars and a sound of Americana spanning the last century.The band members are at the top of their games and Dylan is a perfect,albeit demanding,bandleader.
I've seen many concerts over the last 40 years and this was in the top 5.If Dylan's career began with Time Out of Mind,he'd be a mega star.I can't think of any artist who put out the quality of his work 50 years into his artistic life.Writing,singing,phasing,guitar,harmonica,organ,piano,bandleader.Its an honor to be on the same planet as Dylan.
Entered at Thu Sep 6 23:32:25 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
SolomonWeb: My link
Subject: Before The Flood
Just wondering if anyone has any info on the Dylan and The Band: Down in the Flood DVD ? I know Garth and John Simon were interviewed for the film.
Entered at Thu Sep 6 22:14:41 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter VLocation: Back in the UK
Web: My link
Subject: Dusquene Whistle Video
It really isn't "shockingly violent" - it's quirky and funny. I'll bet you anything a major thematic influence is Sugarland's "Stuck Like Glue" video (linked) which is even better and funnier … but very much in the same mood.
Entered at Thu Sep 6 17:26:49 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Bob F.Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Is anyone else enjoying the entire new Dylan record yet? I think it's just crazy good. The vocals are so sharp and the phrasing in places is just remarkable. Every song is loaded with wonderful lyrics. This band never sounded better. Just a great way to start the fall season.
Entered at Thu Sep 6 15:31:38 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Bill MJust arrived to the sad news of Joe South's passing. RIP.
On the way in I heard Dylan's "Duquesne Whistle" on CBC. Tune and voice similar to Ian Tyson's on "Yellowhead to Yellowstone" of a couple years ago - though of course "Duquesne" is a much jauntier song with an attractively muddy organ. Really nice, except for a couple of misplaced draggy instrumental passages. I thought at the time, jeez, that sounds like Deep Purple at its worst - and then I read John D's post and see Dylan mentioning DP. Another cosmic coincidence.
Entered at Thu Sep 6 15:21:50 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
John DWeb: My link
Subject: Dylan Talks more about the late Joe South and Blonde on Blonde
Interesting insights from Dylan and Al Kooper. Had no idea that South played bass on Visions of Johanna.
Entered at Thu Sep 6 15:17:21 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
John DSubject: Quote from Bob Dylan on Joe South
"Joe had a big hit record with his song 'Games People Play'. He also wrote a number of songs that other people has hits with, like Billy Joe Royal and his number one hit 'Down In The Boondocks', Deep Purple recorded his song 'Hush', and Elvis Presley, 'Walk A Mile In My Shoes'. Joe was also a great guitarist. He played the electric guitar that was added to Simon & Garfunkel's first hit, 'The Sound Of Silence.' He was inducted into the Nashville Songwriters Hall Of Fame, in 1979. " -Bob Dylan from the "Spring Cleaning" episode of Theme Time Radio Hour, April 2007.
Entered at Thu Sep 6 14:23:08 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
I'm still trying to figure out why Bob Dylan's video is "shockingly violent".
Entered at Thu Sep 6 12:50:15 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
joe jWeb: My link
Subject: RIP Joe South
All of God's children get weary when they roam; don't it make you want to go home.
Entered at Wed Sep 5 21:48:21 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Bill MLocation: Toronto
Web: My link
Subject: A Tribute to The Last Waltz, Sept 8, Port Credit
This just in:
"A Tribute to The Last Waltz – The Music of The Band Saturday Sept 8, 11 PM Heath and Sherwood Stage - Southside Shuffle Port Credit ON
"'A remarkable Tribute to an unforgettable night'. The music of The Band. Four Canadians and one lone American from Arkansas, wrote some of the best Roots music of the century. They performed a last concert in San Francisco in Novemeber of 1976. This year Levon Helm, the leader and drummer of the Band passed away. We will commemorate his and their contribution to our musical heritage with this performance.
"Veteran Blues producer and musical director Lance Anderson (Garth Hudson,Fathead,Cameo Blues) has pulled together an all-star team of Canada's finest musicians and singers to perform this unique concert tribute. Anchoring the band will be lead singer and drummer Jerome Levon Avis (Levon Helms' godson,) who brings a personal relationship with the Band members to his playing. Special guests Chuck Jackson (Juno award winning lead vocalist with the Downchild Blues Band), Quisha Wint (Toronto gospel sensation), Terry Blersh (Toronto Blues veteran) and Maple Blues Lifetime Achievement Award winner Paul James (Bob Dylan) will perform songs originally performed at the Last Waltz by Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, Mavis Staples, Eric Clapton and Ronnie Hawkins.
"Dennis Pinhorn on bass (Ronnie Hawkins, Danny Brooks) has played at the source of the well. Rob Gusevs on organ tackles the wondrous organ stylings of Garth Hudson. and Anderson has also put together a
4 piece horn section, including Tuba! Toronto's finest horn players Dave Dunlop (trumpet), John Johnson (sax) and Gord Meyers (Trombone and Tuba) will be joined by Maple Blues band member Chris Murphy on saxes. [...]"
Entered at Wed Sep 5 21:33:26 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
David PSubject: For Whom the Duquesne Whistle Blows
"Listen to that Duquesne whistle blowing
"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
While Shakespeare's The Tempest originated with a storm at sea, another definition of the word tempest is a violent outburst.
"Hell is empty
Just a few random thoughts about the new Dylan song and video.
Entered at Wed Sep 5 01:44:36 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Bob F.Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Subject: Ramble Ticket Prices
Jeff, thanks for the tip. The Garth/Jimmy V show goes on sale tomorrow.
Entered at Wed Sep 5 01:20:12 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Bob FSubject: Dylan Video
PSB I agree with you about the Dylan video. I find it creepy and silly. I wish he would just put out live versions of the songs or video from the recording studio.
Entered at Wed Sep 5 01:17:55 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
PutEmUp(Friend0Bob F - LHS is now offering Special Ramble Ticket Pricing. i don't know what it is, but i can't imagine them charging more for a Special Ramble, so they must have lowered the prices.
Garth and jimmy vivino again, i think the date is Sept 10.
Entered at Wed Sep 5 00:12:45 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Bob F.Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Web: My link
Subject: Tempest and Band article
My link is for American Songriter article on The Band's top 20 songs. This link was on Expecting Rain today. Expecting Rain also has an ITUNES link where you can listen to the entire Tempest record. I apoligize if everyone has already been there done that.
Entered at Tue Sep 4 23:41:21 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
PSBLocation: City of Brotherly Love
Subject: re: Tempest in a Teapot
As someone who has experienced "a little violence," a term I've seen too often in the last few days, I didn't find the video amusing nor did I find it to be social commentary.
Elsewhere I saw mention of a "little punch in the nose," and "just a whack in the kneecaps with a baseball bat." I could tell you a lot about how a little punch broke more bones than the doctors could count, and I don't see what the hell that video has to do with a song about a train.
Entered at Tue Sep 4 20:41:52 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
sadavidWeb: My link
Subject: the original feminist songwriter
David P: those who are shocked by that must have missed this.
Entered at Tue Sep 4 20:21:43 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
David PAnd, as John D pointed out, it's also the 50th anniversary of Dylan's debut on Columbia.
Entered at Tue Sep 4 20:02:31 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
Subject: Tempest in a Teapot
The press seems to be over-reacting to the new video (see link) for Dylan's "Duquesne Whistle", deemingly it to be "shockingly violent" in this age of political correctness. Is the Tarantino-like scene merely gratuitous, or are the critics blind to the art of social commentary? What wrong with a little bit of "ultraviolence" as we celebrate the 50th anniversary of Anthony Burgess' "A Clockwork Orange"?
Entered at Tue Sep 4 19:30:42 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
JTLocation: Victoria and Toronto intermittently
PSB and John D: I listened to those 5 tracks and agree with your assessment, Peter. The musicians sound great and the playing is strong; the lyrics are interesting and again strong songwriting is evident. The various musical forms are executed well and what I heard was a great listening experience. The evolution continues for this septagenerian (? spelling: it got underlined in red)and I am looking forward to listening to the entire album sequentially.
Entered at Tue Sep 4 19:23:52 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
John DSubject: Lil Brown
Years ago; when I got my one and only tour of the inside of Big Pink, there was a copy laying on the floor. That was the period; when a local classical record guy; who sold records by mail; was living there. He was a great guy. Had a show on WDST. Can't describe the feeling of being in the Basement. Entering through the door to the left; in all the Big Pink pictures?
Entered at Tue Sep 4 19:11:21 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Bill MJohn D: Thanks for the link to Lil Brown - something I now wish I HAD picked up. Interesting that the Pipkins' name would be borrowed by some Anglo-popsters for their "Gimme Dat Ding" hit.
Entered at Tue Sep 4 18:57:35 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Bill Msadavid: Thanks. Yes, it's four; I had an unrelated disc bundled up with the BT ones. I generally have no interest in, or head for, bootleg discussions, but I've made a late-blooming exception for some of BT, notably the fourth disc. The fact that the opening lines of "Lo And Behold" are a mirror image of those of "The Weight" makes me wonder which were written first. Dylan's pep-talk in the alternate version of "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere", presumably on the footsteps of the guys' deal with Capitol, seems significant for a couple of reasons. When Dylan 'sings', "Get that drummer from out behind that bottle", is he referring mainly to Richard's drinking or to the fact that Richard will soon be replaced as drummer by the returning Levon? And the tangential touchings among a good number of the classic songs is, well, kinda neat.
David P: Thanks for the Brockett link. Not because I liked it (or could even stand listening to it) but because I will never have to wonder about buying the two Brockett albums that sit in my local used-record store. Really nice covers in both cases. By the way, do you know how he pronounced his first name?
Entered at Tue Sep 4 19:01:03 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
John DWeb: My link
Subject: Lil Brown
And who could forget Music From "Lil Brown."
Entered at Tue Sep 4 18:19:54 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
David PWeb: My link
I recall another epic variation on the Titanic recorded by Jaime Brockett on his 1969 album "Remember the Wind and the Rain". His version, entitled "The Legend of the U.S.S. Titanic", co-written with Chris Smither, was a 13+ minute song sung in a talking-blues on speed style (link above). It expanded on Leadbeady's Titanic, which included the fictional sub-plot that the prize-fighter Jack Johnson was denied passage on the ship's maiden voyage because of his race. Mr. Brockett's updated version, in the spirit of late-'60s, further postulated that the first mate and the captain were smoking hemp that fateful night. I still have my LP copy of "Remember the Wind and the Rain", which was released on the Oracle label, with the Titanic song receiving airplay at the time on local FM "underground" stations. I would bet that Dylan is familiar with Mr. Brockett's previous epic take on the Titanic.
Entered at Tue Sep 4 18:11:06 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter vWeb: My link
Subject: Titanic memorial
Hopefully this link works, the memorial was erected by the Musicians Union.
Entered at Tue Sep 4 18:09:15 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
sadavidWeb: My link
Bill M: dunno. I've got the 4-CD "Tree with Roots Genuine BT Remasters." Got it from a friend as raw data - no booklets, etc. Bootlegging the bootleggers, I guess.
As always, jh has the case covered; archive refers to extensive packaging & notes (see [My link]) and details the source tapes. Personally, I have no head for those discussions and just revert to _Clue_ formula: "Prof. Hudson, in the Basement, with an Ampex."
Entered at Tue Sep 4 17:29:44 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Bill Msadavid: Thanks so much for the link to the Bauls story. I wish their Big Pink LP was out on CD, not just because of the Band connection but because it's brilliant. The CD that I do have, "Traditional Folk Songs of India" (Legacy CD 429) seems likely to be the album they recorded in LA before heading east. I don't think the article mentioned Dylan's "Big Pink" cover painting, but I think that both the elephant and the sitar-playing pot-head must be references to the Bauls. BTW, are my five BT CDs the "Tree With Roots" compilation - and were there decent liner notes and/or chronological info?
Entered at Tue Sep 4 17:25:10 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Peter VSubject: Harry Chapin
Who can forget the Dance Band on the Titanic? In fact, Southampton, UK, has a memorial to the actual dance band, which I often walk past.
Entered at Tue Sep 4 16:56:14 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
sadavidWeb: My link
Subject: the Bauls of Bearsville
How Albert Grossman brought the Bauls to New York, and the miserable time they spent there.
"A tangled tale of Bauls, Beat poets, Bob Dylan and one woman’s effort to preserve the music and stories of West Bengal’s wandering minstrels."
"One day in late autumn, Sally cooked a huge bird; Luxman found it inedible. American marijuana was useless, but he liked American beer, particularly the kind that came in cans."
Entered at Tue Sep 4 16:21:22 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
David PSubject: Take the Load off Captain Smith
There are many variations of epic songs about the Titanic. One of the earliest was recorded by Ernest "Pop" Stoneman, followed with another by William & Versey Smith, which was included on Harry Smith's Anthology of American Folk Music. Other diverse artists such as Leadbelly and Loretta Lynn sang other versions. Sissy Spacek's recording from the latter was the opening cut of the soundtrack to "Coal Miner's Daughter", which was followed by Levon's cover of "Blue Moon of Kentucky".
Entered at Tue Sep 4 10:11:41 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
KristianWeb: My link
Thanks for a great website. When will u upload new images for the gallery?
Entered at Tue Sep 4 02:59:27 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
PSBLocation: City of Brotherly Love
Tempest will go down as one of the great Dylan albums.
Entered at Mon Sep 3 18:21:50 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
JedSubject: Dylan in Bethel
Saw Dylan last night.A magnificent performance.Great sound system,loved the arrangements and the band is first rate.Beautiful setting,nice old crowd and it was an honor to see Dylan again,the last time about 3 years ago.The voice is rough,but fine and the words were,for the most part ,quite understandable.
Entered at Mon Sep 3 16:11:08 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
Bob F.Location: Hudson Valley, NY
John D, if you go out on Expecting Rain, they had a link this past Saturday to a site where you can hear 5 songs from the new record. It was the number 16 link called First Listen.
Entered at Mon Sep 3 10:17:12 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
rosalindDon't let'em feel your ass
Entered at Mon Sep 3 10:16:17 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
rosalindPeter Viney - A litttle advice while you're travelling around this semi-great country of arn. Some advice my Mother gave me when I left home for the first time "Don't let'em feel your ass"
Entered at Mon Sep 3 01:11:47 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Peter VLocation: Driving with my attorney
On the way to San Diego, leaving at 6.30 am, I crossed that bit of the Mojave with Hunter S Thompson on my mind, signs to Barstow and a mix CD playing The Weight, Willin' etc. Lil, I thought of you when Southern Cross came on, as I think we're the world's major fans of this song.
At least we got here. The Chevy Traverse we rented in San Francisco had a whopping 42,900 on the clock. When I got here, some 1200 miles later, I noticed the sticker on the door "next service due at 43,000". It notably wouldn't hold in drive on San Francisco streets, and slipped back as long as you let it, and when we overtook trucks on steep gradient there was a distinctive hot clutch smell that w as disconcerting. It'll teach me why Dollar had the best price for future reference!
Entered at Sun Sep 2 22:25:16 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
PSBLocation: City of Brotherly Love
Subject: re: Dylan
I have not heard the whole thing, but I do find some of the reviews dubious. That may be subject to change once I hear it all together.
Entered at Sun Sep 2 21:36:24 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
jhWeb: My link
Subject: Garth's Canadian Band tribute
That one's (yet another) re-release of Garth's 2010 project, see link above.
Entered at Sun Sep 2 20:54:16 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
John DSubject: PSB
Why PSB? Have you heard more of the album; or lack of trust in reviewers? Smiley face.
Entered at Sun Sep 2 18:16:54 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Web: My link
Subject: Garth cansdian tribute
Entered at Sun Sep 2 18:11:19 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
PSBLocation: City of Brotherly Love
I would suggest caution or at least a wary eye as to what these critics no matter how reputable are saying.
Entered at Sun Sep 2 16:17:52 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Jon LLocation: NYC
Peter, HMV pulled out of New York City some five years back, as has just about every other major music chain at this point. I know the tiny indie shops are the favorites of most music buffs, but it's a real shame the larger stores like Tower, HMV, and Virgin became extinct, as they were centrally located and ideal to browse, with better-than-average stock for diverse NY tastes and headphones-listening stations that turned me on to a number of interesting artists. I do miss them.
Entered at Sun Sep 2 16:15:02 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
John DSubject: JT
I was there, front row on the 14th JT. One of the two greatest concerts ever for me.
Entered at Sun Sep 2 15:02:59 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
JT and LvdBLocation: Toronto
Subject: Forty seven years ago Toronto
It was 47 years ago on November 14 (and then Nov 15) that Bob Dylan played solo and then was joined on stage by Levon and the Hawks. I was there on Nov 15, 1965. In today's vernacular, it was truly epic. An anniversary for Toronto as Bob Dylan returns again (I only wish it were Massey Hall again instead as it was way back then).
Entered at Sun Sep 2 13:52:06 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
John DSubject: Dylan
Just reading an article in the L.A. Times; regarding the title track "Tempest"; from Bobby D. A 14 minutes song about the sinking of The Titanic. 45 verses; with no chorus. He even brings the characters of Leo and Rose (from James Cameron's film) into the story. The lyrics are at the top of his game. Bob continues to do what he does best.
This celebrates 50 years since "Bob Dylan" was released; for Columbia. Like to say I was there; but didn't get into Bob (other than Peter Paul and Mary singing his songs); until "Another Side of Bob Dylan"; his 4th album. He's in Toronto November 14th.
Entered at Sun Sep 2 13:04:52 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
Did we ever confirm that Levon played it on the letterman show? Certainly, the opening horn line from tlw was played just as they went to a commercial break.
Entered at Sun Sep 2 07:11:09 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter VI'm in the USA for my son's wedding last Saturday in Los Olivos which is magical, and everyone you meet tells you a Michael Jackson story (either 100% good or 100% bad). We're going to San Diego on Sunday to see friends, then fly back to SaN Francisco and home. Sadly no stopover in New York State.
We hated Las Vegas … our third time, but we only come for the Cirque du soleil, the rest I can't stand.
It strikes me so strongly what a disaster it will be if HMV record stores go down in the UK. A country devoid of major record retailers is a sad thing to behold. Nearly every UK town clings on to an HMV store … but for how long?
Entered at Sun Sep 2 04:28:58 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Lillol... only meant to ask it once :-)
Entered at Sun Sep 2 04:27:36 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
LilPeter V: Serious Question: Are you coming to upstate NY?
Entered at Sun Sep 2 04:26:12 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
LilPeter V: Serious Question. Are you coming to upstate NY?
Entered at Sun Sep 2 02:53:12 CEST 2012 from (126.96.36.199)Posted by:
BONKLocation: Salt Spring Island (by way of cabbagetown)
Subject: Peter V
I'd rather have a nice cuppa!!
What are you doing in the States?
Entered at Sun Sep 2 02:09:37 CEST 2012 from (188.8.131.52)Posted by:
John DLoving the new Dylan Video and song "Duquesne Whistle." Dylan's eyes seem different. Perhaps more wide open than usual.
Entered at Sun Sep 2 01:51:04 CEST 2012 from (184.108.40.206)Posted by:
Peter vLocation: Not viva las vegas
After posting the comment on Dixie, i walked in to get coffee and Dixie came over the sound system exactlly as I sat down.
Coffee in Las vegas is so bad everywhere that I even resorted to Starbucks, which is always poor, but worse here. It must be regional, every coffee in San Francisco was superb.
Entered at Sat Sep 1 20:10:37 CEST 2012 from (220.127.116.11)Posted by:
Entered at Sat Sep 1 18:15:46 CEST 2012 from (18.104.22.168)Posted by:
Peter vSubject: Dixie
I think it was The last waltz, apart from that bit of Robbie solo on the Classic Albums DVD.
On these advertising and scam posts, it is hard to stop it. My Wordpress blog filters out fifty a day, many in Cyrillic. I don't see why they cannot just kill all non roman alphabet posts. But there are always some poor idiots out there who push this stuff for a fraction of a cent a time just to improve Google ratings or whatever. I get stuff for lofts in Denver daily and have done for months. It is very hard to see where it could possibly be effective. One solution, which cuts a major percentageis to block ex USSR totally. wherever they claim to be from, that is where so many trace back to.
Entered at Sat Sep 1 06:39:07 CEST 2012 from (22.214.171.124)Posted by:
Peter VWandered into three Las Vegas malls today without finding a single store selling books, CDs or DVDs. Apart from Target, I've only seen music on sale in Amoeba in LA and San Francisco. Is this the end of civilisation as we knew it? Plenty of books in San Francisco, at least! Oh, and Urban Outfitters had a dozen or sop new vinyll LPs. Oddly, I've seen four stores selling framed music memorabilia in Vegas, but not music.
Just back from"Ka" which is why I didn't get tickets for Ziggy Marley, 21 floors directly below us. As ever at that distance you can hear muffled voice plus bass and drums. Judging by that, I'm glad I didn't try for tickets. Neil Diamond is on tomorrow, but Mrs V considers that a Hot August Night too far, so we won't be attending.