The Band Guestbook, June 2003

The guestbook was closed on June 9 due to abuse (abusive entries have been deleted), reopened on June 14 and then closed again on June 15.

Entered at Sun Jun 15 18:17:51 CEST 2003 from ac927be3.ipt.aol.com (172.146.123.227)

Rick S.

Subject: "More Than A Soap Opera!" (Ray Davies music)

A friend's husband, Michael Bias, has written the book of "More Than A Soap Opera!" which merges the music and lyrics of Ray Davies'(of the Kinks)two albums released in 1975. The play premiered last weekend at the Becton Theater, on the campus of Fairleigh Dickinson University, Teaneck, New Jersey. Michael directs the play and infuses the musical vision of Ray Davies: edgy, funny and rocking. The professional leads have great voices and the amateurs are teenagers who dance and sing backup. There is a live band on stage (with horn section). It's a terrific production.

There is a matinee at 3 PM today. The play's run concludes the weekend of June 20th (Friday &Saturday evenings; special Midnight performances and matinees). For further information check out the Website: www.garagetheatre.org

Support the only professional theatre group in Bergen County, New Jersey.

Entered at Sun Jun 15 17:23:16 CEST 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Empty Now

Happy happy to all you good fathers out there!!!
Oh it's such a perfect day
I feared this guestbook had been shut down for the last time
Bruuuuce wasn't there to sing his part but.....
Earle and Keb Mo are also on the bill
Rick perform under the stars....
Glad to hear he's still live and kicking to see the next generation born

Entered at Sun Jun 15 16:52:27 CEST 2003 from cpe-65-25-199-100.mn.rr.com (65.25.199.100)

Dave Z

... "said the Blues has soul"... ..."said the Blues has soul"... ..."said the Blues has soul"... The Blues had a baby and they called it Rock & Roll... Happy happy to all you good fathers out there!!!

Entered at Sun Jun 15 16:19:04 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Calvin

Mmmmm, feels good to be back. Last week I found a fantastic copy of the first Jesse Winchester album, which I had never heard before, on Vinyl-It was pretty annoying not having anyone to share that with who would give a damn.

Anyone see Jackson Brown lately? He is coming to my vicinity next weekend. I'm tempted to go just because Steve Earle and Keb Mo are also on the bill. I like the trend of a couple acts going out together instead of the opener being someone who youve never heard of-more bang for your buck as it were.

I was cleaning some stuff out of my parents basement the other day and found my 8-track copy of the Last Waltz. Sue Me-my 1976 Nova had a 8-track player in it, ya work with what you have.

Entered at Sun Jun 15 15:00:10 CEST 2003 from (61.240.164.80)

Richard

Subject: Warren Zevon Update

Someone in here was inquiring about Warren Zevon's condition. I just posted this over at "alt music the band" seeing as this place was closed... it seems Zevon fans may have still more reasons to be thankful... (The link above will take you to Michael Swanwick's cool short story about Warren, which was posted in the GB not too long ago)...

NEW YORK (Billboard) -- Terminally ill artist Warren Zevon has gathered an impressive list of famous friends to contribute to what will likely be his final studio album, "The Wind."

Due August 26 via Artemis, the album features contributions from Bruce Springsteen, the Eagles' Don Henley, Joe Walsh, and Timothy B. Schmit, Tom Petty, Jackson Browne, Emmylou Harris, Dwight Yoakam, Billy Bob Thornton, Ry Cooder, T-Bone Burnett, Tommy Shaw (Styx), David Lindley, and John Waite.

Zevon was diagnosed last fall with inoperable lung cancer. At that time he announced that he would begin work on the new album.

"I'm writing a lot," the artist told Billboard when he disclosed his illness publicly. "There's nothing like an experience like this to really make you start living that tao day by day, so much depends on how much I'm breathing every day.

"Fortunately, I have a studio. The studio, as you've heard on the records, is in my apartment. So I'm going to be able to stagger into that thing pretty much when the hearse is idling at the curb."

VH1 filmed the recording sessions for the album and much of Zevon's life since his diagnosis. A documentary about his struggle will air in conjunction with the album's release.

In March, EMI/Capitol reissued three of Zevon's albums -- his 1969 debut "Wanted Dead or Alive," 1987's "Sentimental Hygiene" and 1989's "Transverse City" -- all with bonus material. A retrospective, "Genius: The Best of Warren Zevon," was released in October by Rhino.

Entered at Sun Jun 15 14:50:31 CEST 2003 from tnt-77-39.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.39)

Tracy

I saw Friday night on the E! ticker tape (those news updates on the bottom of your TV screen) there was mention of Warren Zevon. I thought it might be the worst. Instead, it turns out it's very good news for the Zevon family. Warren just became the grandfather of twin boys, Augustus and Maximus! Now, that's something really sweet near Father's Day. Glad to hear he's still live and kicking to see the next generation born.

Tracy

Entered at Sun Jun 15 14:37:21 CEST 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp189961.sympatico.ca (64.229.1.120)

brown eyed girl

(by Eric Clapton)

Sailing down behind the sun,
Waiting for my prince to come.
Praying for the healing rain
To restore my soul again.

Just a toerag on the run.
How did I get here?
What have I done?
When will all my hopes arise?
How will I know him?
When I look in my father's eyes.
My father's eyes.
When I look in my father's eyes.
My father's eyes.

Then the light begins to shine
And I hear those ancient lullabies.
And as I watch this seedling grow,
Feel my heart start to overflow.

Where do I find the words to say?
How do I teach him?
What do we play?
Bit by bit, I've realized
That's when I need them,
That's when I need my father's eyes.
My father's eyes.
That's when I need my father's eyes.
My father's eyes.

Then the jagged edge appears
Through the distant clouds of tears.
I'm like a bridge that was washed away;
My foundations were made of clay.

As my soul slides down to die.
How could I lose him?
What did I try?
Bit by bit, I've realized
That he was here with me;
I looked into my father's eyes.
My father's eyes.
I looked into my father's eyes.
My father's eyes.

My father's eyes.
My father's eyes.
I looked into my father's eyes.
My father's eyes.

Entered at Sun Jun 15 14:07:37 CEST 2003 from va-spotsy-cuda1-c5b-95.frbgva.adelphia.net (68.65.37.95)

Charlie Young

Subject: Welcome Back...

Lil: your line reminded me of the great one from Joni, "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone." I feared this guestbook had been shut down for the last time. The Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame shut down their guestbook permanently a couple of years ago when Kiss fans and others kept posting obscene messages about the fact that their favorite heavy metal and cosmetics bands (Kiss and makeup, get it?) had not been inducted into the Hall. Let's try to keep that from happening here. Thanks, Jan!

Entered at Sun Jun 15 13:16:06 CEST 2003 from mcha-aj180.taconic.net (205.231.150.180)

Lil

Entered at Sun Jun 15 05:53:15 CEST 2003 from mcha-ai002.taconic.net (205.231.28.2)

Lil

I just came back from a nice night of music under the stars. Noone anyone here would know..local bands.. who were wonderful. There's just something nice about listening to live music outdoors. I remember nights of seeing Rick perform under the stars.. never dreaming that so soon, he'd actually be one. My kids say that the brightest star is their dad, and the stars all around it are his friends. I think they're right.

Rambling here. A few beers and exhaustion. And I have to get up in 5 hours for work. Yikes! Better say goodnight.

Entered at Sun Jun 15 04:55:14 CEST 2003 from ac82fa44.ipt.aol.com (172.130.250.68)

Rick S.

Subject: Van Morrison in New York City

My wife and I saw Van Morrison at The Theater at Madison Square Garden Friday night. People with tickets for him in Boston are in for a treat. Van's in great voice with a great band, the Soul Alive Orchestra (Hammond organ; baritone sax/flute; trumpet; electric guitar; standup bass/electric bass; drums; the musicians sang backup). Van played harmonica, saxophone and what looked like an acoustic Spanish guitar. Songs included "That's Life" and "Did I Tell You That I Love You". Solomon Burke, the opening act, joined him for "Stand By Me" and "Fast Train". The encore was "Brown-Eyed Girl" and "Gloria (G-L-O-R-I-A)". The audience loved him and he sang for an hour and a half straight with a miminum of chatter.

Entered at Sun Jun 15 03:32:37 CEST 2003 from 143.42.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.42.143)

Ray Pence

Thank you, Jan, so nice to have the guestbook again, and thank you to Brown Eyed Girl--I'm glad you had the chance to see and hear Louuuuuuuuuu--61 years young and still hard as nails--let's keep it real, and real nice, here in this GB.

Entered at Sun Jun 15 03:01:19 CEST 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp190441.sympatico.ca (64.229.3.92)

brown eyed girl

Over the years, Lou Reed has been recognized as a primal and constant force in a field where "geniuses" come and go like so many fashion plates.

.....Lou Reed's America exists in previously uncharted waters. Few have explored the heart, soul, brain, underbelly and dementia of this culture more persuasively or poetically. He presents jokes like assassinations, love letters like injections and rooms with a point of view, encompassing the bleakest dead ends and the highest skies. There are no victims, only survivors. For over 30 years Lou Reed has written the American history on record, where the personal and political combine to create myth."

....Last night....Lucky Friday June 13....I experienced almost three hours of contentment.....Louuuuu on stage at Massey Hall....who talked to his audience and of course the NY humour and wit was ever so present....He appeared more comfortable in his own skin now.....and performed songs from various recordings that I never heard live before like....."Street Hassle"....Bruuuuce wasn't there to sing his part but....."Sweet Jane Scarpantoni" his cellist was absolutely possessed.....Singer from NYC....Antony.....sang like an angel...."Candy Says".....His hands constantly moved rhythmically....Fernando Saunders sang one of his own songs....I always knew he was the sweetest....He is all heart....So if he can work with Louuuu for this long a time..........Rathke was playing a zeeeetar??....While playing his guitar it sounded like he was playing piano......Louuuu even mentioned Joni and Neil.....He asked how come they left their roots?....For he never left NYC.........Ah, Louuuu....Three decades later....I still love Louuuu as an artist unconditionally.....

In an interview Louuuu claims that Ornette Coleman and Don Cherry are his heroes......Last night he reinvented his songs.....The Sound we heard last night was absolutely amazing....Very last encore was "Heroin"....We all knew why Louuuu chose to revisit his past.....It was a reminder of how far he had grown up and dealt with many of his demons in public.....Afterall his Tai-Chi mentor also was on stage....moving his body with precise control during a couple of numbers.....Louuuu only drinks diet coke now.....I guess whether it's Aspartme/Nutrasweet....which are neurotoxins......His substitutes these days...In anycase, at 61.....Louuuu....still here to rock and jazz on.........and I noticed he is much better able to share centre stage these days.....In my life his voice and words and his rhythm guitar will continue to be heard and appreciated.....

Another encore to show us he had fun and enjoyed our company as well....."Perfect Day"....

Oh it's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you
Oh such a perfect day
You just keep me hangin' on
You just keep me hangin' on

Just a perfect day, problems all left alone
Weekenders on our own, it's such fun
Just a perfect day, you made me forget myself
I thought I was someone else, someone good

You're going to reap just what you sow

Louuuu....Perfect Day...Transformer...Produced by David Bowie

Jan the Man! Mucho thanks for allowing me to indulge and share all my musical heroes who inspire me in your Guest Book....At least most of my posts are music related and Louuuu.....is on your related Band music list.....:-D

Entered at Sun Jun 15 02:08:59 CEST 2003 from sdn-ap-020castocp0088.dialsprint.net (65.178.72.88)

Rolando!

..........Good Evening! (I still say that's the voice of Bill Graham.........)

Entered at Sun Jun 15 01:27:33 CEST 2003 from xtreme-1-138.dyn.aci.on.ca (69.17.160.138)

Rudiment

Subject: Be C OOL

Lets keep the comments appropriate if you want to fight keep it Private be sensitive Attention seeking behaviour does not belong HERE WELCOME BACK

Entered at Sun Jun 15 01:07:55 CEST 2003 from pc-80-193-96-56-sm.blueyonder.co.uk (80.193.96.56)

Roger

Entered at Sun Jun 15 01:04:04 CEST 2003 from cpe0080c6f0a856-cm014120014212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.157.155.164)

John D

Remember in the good old days of the internet.........that when you had a problem with someone you took it to private e-mail? Why don't we all try that. Jan is only going to close and re-open so many times and then it's all over. I say... a vote for private e-mail if you've got a problem with someone. Let's keep the guestbook open!

Entered at Sun Jun 15 00:02:43 CEST 2003 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.home.nl (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

hm ...... fresh ...... new paint, huh?

Entered at Sat Jun 14 23:25:39 CEST 2003 from 24-161-21-18.hvc.rr.com (24.161.21.18)

Lars

Subject: Guestbook

Jan is great, Jan is good....let us thank him for our guestbook.

Don't forget, Prof. Louie and The Crowmatix at the Towne Crier tonight at 9:00 PM. phone is (845) 855-1300.

Entered at Sat Jun 14 22:55:07 CEST 2003 from 1cust148.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.148)

Judge Judy

Subject: Order from the Court

Any poster in this guest book who violates the rules of polite internet conduct from this day onward will receive a mandatory 5 year sentence plus 3 paragraphs with no time off for good spelling!

So be it!

Entered at Sat Jun 14 22:48:44 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Joe

Thanks Jan

Entered at Sat Jun 14 21:46:06 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Joe

Jan, are we open for business ???

Entered at Sat Jun 14 21:13:39 CEST 2003 from c143wn2.wifi.halden.net (194.69.211.143)

jh

Hooray...

Entered at Mon Jun 9 12:06:39 CEST 2003 from mcha-ag038.taconic.net (205.231.148.229)

Lil

Entered at Mon Jun 9 11:42:38 CEST 2003 from (80.246.7.140)

Empty Now

if you liked a former liner note translated from the Gnawa album i am enjoying these days, i retained a cute pun in the track titled "Ouvrez Les Stores": the word i heard as "Conquistador" in the song is in fact spelled "Con qui se la dore", the expression is somewhat hard to translate, cause it is typiquement Parigot comme calembour, i will transcript it in English: "an idiot who fills his asshole of gold"...that's all what a conquistador can be after Amaz, he did better than Neil Young, and i loved him before that...

Entered at Mon Jun 9 10:11:16 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

roz

Entered at Mon Jun 9 09:38:17 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

Bayou Sam's got deep roots here. What kind of music do you listen to Dale? I know you must have good taste in music because you're here afterall. EVERYBODY knows that Band Fans have the best taste in music on the entire planet earth. And Nobody knows it better than us! Right? So let's hear about your favorite artists. Okay?

Entered at Mon Jun 9 08:24:52 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Hi Bayou, my bestest buddy in the whole wide world,

I don't want to hear your groveling or your veiled threats. You have only two choices. Either we both go or we both stay. Your choice. Period. I am not kidding around. I tried to leave and you wouldn't have it, so this is your punishment. You'll take it and like it or you'll leave. You earned it fair and square my friend. You know who you were talking to and you know who you were talking about. I will not hear any more of your BS. Now get on your knees and beg 'cause we are now in the Matrix my puny little Dolt. BTW, You heard the newest about Robbie? I hear he totally ripped off the rest of the band and is living the life of luxury at the other's expense. How can the man live with himself? How must it feel to have two lives so far marked against your soul. Do you know exactly how much he made off of his "way" of doing business? The guy is one huge piece of trash in my opinion. How do you feel about it?

Entered at Mon Jun 9 08:12:18 CEST 2003 from at-std10.nirai.ne.jp (61.25.183.10)

Fred

Roz: once again I agree with you.....Bayou Sam seems to be a straight-arrow guy

Entered at Mon Jun 9 07:51:30 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

no problem Roz - and thanks.

Entered at Mon Jun 9 07:50:18 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

What makes you think I was referring to you? That's something you've decided in your own mind. I was making a general statement about the somewhat regular posting of those people that, every now and again, come along and are only interested in causing problems on this wonderful website. The fact that you were laying in wait for something to explode over is your own issue. I directed no comment to you. I was happy enough that you stood by your word and moved on. You think quite a lot of yourself to think I still had any interest in your participation in this guestbook. If you saw yourself in my post then that's something for you to think about I guess.

I took issue with you coming in here and calling Robbie Robertson a "scumbag", among other things. I don't disagree with your right to think such things about him - but to ride in here and show disrepect to the webmaster, and the folks that have contributed to this site for years is wrong - in my humble opinion.

Look - I'm not going to get into a big Guestbook-wasting "thing" with you in here. I asked you the last time to take it to e-mail. You refused, and accused ME of hiding at the same time.....I'm not going to leave here on the heels of your threat. I suppose that you could force me to leave if you carry out the plan you laid out. I can't control that.....You ought to think hard though about leveling threats, and vowing to "punish" people - especially in such a well documented way. That takes things to a whole different level of seriousness.

Entered at Mon Jun 9 07:49:12 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

Subject: Disconnected Musings...

Dale and Rob -

There was a young girl from Wheeling
Who had a most peculiar feeling
She laid on her back
Opened her crack
And pissed all over the ceiling... ;) (wink)

Bayou Sam is a straight arrow guy. I've liked him from the first day I ever posted here. He's always sweet...even when he pissed. I know he thinks we had a little diss-agreement a couple months ago, but .. I was just havin fun. He didn't see the smile on my face.

For all of Us ..

Gentle warrior
With your heart like gold and a rainbow in your eyes
Brave Companion
Do you see a world shinin' in the skies
With your body Dancin' like an Arrow
Spreading joy beneath your feet
And your hands .. they wave like tall grass
In the wind as you speak
With the shyness of a small child
And the wisdom of a sage
I tell you now
There is no reason to be afraid

Brother Warrior
There are none of us who walk this path alone
Spirit Healer
Is the only life that we have ever known
And I see your smile in the sunlight
I hear your songs in the rain
And I hold you here inside me
Feel your love and know your pain

At this time when the earth is waking
To the dawn of another age
I tell you now
There is no reason to be afraid.

We are crying for a vision
That all living things can share
And those who care are with us
Everywhere..."

-- Kate Wolf -- Miss ya Kate

Does anyone know what happened to her guitar player, Nina Gerber?

Tiny - .....

The Red-tailed Hawk writes songs across the sky
There's music in the waters flowin' by
You can hear a song each time the wind sighs
In the golden rollin hills of California
In The golden rollin' hills of California....

"The Last Opium Den" by Nick Tosches... It's not his best, easy to read tho. About his search for the Last Opium Den....

Entered at Mon Jun 9 06:06:41 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Hi Bayou Sam. Were you aware that Robbie has basically ruined himself and the Band's good name by ripping off the rest of the band? In my opinion he was instrumental in the deaths of Rick and Richard and should be labeled a muderer. I hope he enjoys his ill-gotten goods. He will surely burn in Hell for what he has done. See you next time Bayou my bestest buddy in the whole wide world. You may now call me Krazy Chester. Hell, I might even change my name to Bayou Sam.....There's no telling what I would say then....

Entered at Mon Jun 9 05:55:09 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

To Bayou Sam - Well, well, well my doltish little friend, you just couldn't leave it alone could you? I ignored your first comment that was obviously aimed at me, but I will no longer sit by and take your bull shit. I am now going to punish you for your transgressions. It's just too bad that the rest of these nice folks need to pay for your stupidity as well. Let me first say that I agree with Rob Nickel 100%, but we are not the same person. I have never even been to Canada, nor have I met or even spoken to Mr. Nickel. I am sure he will back me up on that one. I do agree with his way of thinking though, and I think it is important that those of us who feel this way speak our minds so that at least that back-stabbing Robbie will get some payback for his crimes as well. I must agree with you that Mr. Nickel and I do sound alike, but there are thousands of us out here who feel the same way about that scumbag Robbie. Since you seem to be unable to comprehend that fact, I will now be forced to hang around this place and make you remember why you shouldn't have called me out. From this point forward, every time I see you post I will respond with a comment regarding your idol Robbie. If you post twice, I will comment twice. I am now your shadow. And no amount of BS from the rest of you Pro-Robbie Morons will make me go away. This is between Bayou Sam and myself and I am now on a mission. Therefore you have two choices my ignorant little friend. Your first choice is to leave this place so the rest of these nice people will not forever be subjected to reading my responses to each and every one of your posts. Your second choice is to stay and continue to post as usual and put up with the Anti-Robbie comments that will from here on out follow your posts. Please understand that I am here to stay as long as you are. As long as you post on this site, I will be there every time to comment and spout off about Robbie. If you post, expect a response from me. I tried to stay away but you couldn't let that happen, so here I am to punish you. And I am here to stay as long as you are. This will be your punishment and over time your friends will beg you to leave to get rid of me. I am sorry you chose this route, but you did and there is no turning back. Again, I really tried to leave this place but you couldn't leave it alone. I would ask you to contact the webmaster to verify that Mr. Nickel and I are two different people form different areas because I know the truth even if you don't want to admit it. I hope you are happy with your post which caused this action, and your punishment will fit your crime. I will include a copy of your post below and I hope you understand it's ramifications. If you choose to stay here, the feud never dies from this board until you leave. And that does not mean changing names to Tom or whatever your real name is. You MUST stop posting on this board for me to go away. This is a permanent situation, so take it for what it's worth. I assume that you will not be leaving, so you and I will be quite close from now on as long as you stay around here and post. Wherever you are, I am soon to follow. In a way I am glad that you pulled your crap because I think it is important for anyone interested in the Band to know how many people feel about Robbie and his dirty little tricks. Who knows, maybe we'll all burn in hell together. So be it. As long as you stick around, I will be sure they know all about that lying, cheating piece of trash. See you soon and daily Mr. Dolt. Now, here's your intelligent little diatribe that has caused this action in case you forgot what you wrote.

Entered at Sun Jun 8 18:46:02 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Posted by: Bayou Sam

Location: ny

Do you think that these trouble-stirring fools that come through here are the same couple of people under a different name? I know that's not a new theory at all - but this Nickel guy is too close on the heels of the latest wackos. Speaking of wackos :-)- rollie amd crabby have been laying low huh?

Entered at Mon Jun 9 04:15:28 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

I just found a very amusing item for sale on eBay. It's a photo of John and Yoko sitting on Ronnie Hawkins' couch in 1969. It comes with a C.O.A. from Hawkins. It's being sold by someone in Canada. The opening bid is insane. I wonder if someone is selling it for Ronnie. Check out the link.

Entered at Mon Jun 9 02:10:56 CEST 2003 from mcha-ai036.taconic.net (205.231.28.36)

Lil

Sympathy and thoughts from me to both Ruby and Bill on your losses.

Entered at Mon Jun 9 00:21:29 CEST 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Tiny Monster

Subject: Ridin The Rails

Oh, yea Roz. I used to ride the freights back in the
60's from Davis Cali. up north to Portland and beyond.
It was safe for us young guys back then.
I was never in the war but my old man is the veteran of three
foreign wars and retired from the Air Force. I got my
travelin bug from that upbringin. Moved every two years
all my life. The view from the rails between North Cali. and
Vancover cannot be described in words. Perhaps in song ...

What song do you suppose that might be? ...

Great story about Koontz. I've read a couple of his
books. Which reminds me, I was askin for book referrals
some time back and I think it was you mentioned some book,
the title of which I can't recall. It had the word
Opium in the title. You know what I'm talking
about? What was that book? ...

As for putting up with you here ...
your just about the only reason I scroll through these
seemingly endless ramblings ...

lets face it folks, the "Levon-Robbie Feud" marathon
... is burnt ...

Big smooch to ya Rozlyn Honey
You got soul ...

Entered at Mon Jun 9 00:12:27 CEST 2003 from cpe-65-25-199-100.mn.rr.com (65.25.199.100)

Dave Z

Entered at Sun Jun 8 20:57:49 CEST 2003 from (203.132.156.45)

Yazooman

Subject: Robbie Robertson

I was going thru the above website when I came across a couple of interesting notes on Robbie as a guitarist. This is taken from the section on rock guitarists and I think the author is a huge fan of The Band and Robbie. These are the notes on "Back to memphis" and "Slo Burn".

"Robbie Robertson, lead guitar, with The Band: Back to Memphis (1973). It's become almost a clich» of writers discussing the Band, to cite Robertson's super-spare, dry, crackling solo at the end of the classic "King Harvest" as his all-time guitar masterpiece. Of course I love that solo too, but he's recorded many equally great ones throughout his career, and I wanted to showcase some other, perhaps less known, sides of his playing, as displayed in this good-time rock'n'roll rave-up number from the Band's set at Watkins Glen. This song, a 24-bar blues in form, is actually a quite obscure Chuck Berry number, but Robbie plays totally his own bag of tricks here, with very little reference to Chuck's style. His use of open strings as he moves up the neck (see bars 5-6 of his first chorus; also first 4 bars of chorus 2, etc. etc.) is phenomenal; so is the way he keeps a dramatic high-tonic drone note ringing against his melody line in bars 5-8 of chorus 2; and I laughed out loud at the way he slips that snarly low-string lick (almost a "Suzie Q" quote!) into the final V chord of this break. More on Robertson below."

"Robbie Robertson: Slo Burn (1994? recorded earlier?). Of course Robertson's widely acclaimed for some of his classic songwriting, and for his songwriter-storyteller role and overall vibe of artistic integrity; and yes, he's vaguely recognized as a good, tasty lead guitarist too. I'm going to go much further out on a limb in assessing him as a player! It's my opinion that he stands in a class with Hendrix, and only Hendrix, as the most innovative, diverse, complex, distinctive, and powerful guitar voice of his era. He's played definitively beautiful solos and color parts in an amazingly wide range of styles and idioms; his timing, as both lead and support player, is fantastic; his uses of open-string and drone techniques, "harmonics" licks, tremolo picking and volume-swell tone effects are utterly personal, imaginative and unique. The different historical periods of his work -- with Ronnie Hawkins, with Dylan, several distinct phases with the Band, and his solo and soundtrack work of the last 16 years -- are each distinctive and deserve serious examination; yet at this same time his personal voice is unmistakable at every stage. He's been a rebel and innovator on the instrument right from the start, and continues to break new ground today, as this moody, moaning, instrumental piece from a 1994 film score bears witness. And of course, through all his evolutions and technical innovations, the essence of his playing has always been the pure, searing emotion he wrings from his strings. "Slo Burn," like all of his best work, fascinates me as a guitarist -- but utterly haunts and transports me as a listener."

ensoi.....

Entered at Sun Jun 8 20:39:48 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Cajun Gal

Subject: Coal Miner's Daughter

Hi ya'll,

I'm a first time poster, but have been reading the guestbook for quite awhile. Just wanted to let everyone know that would be interested (sorry if I missed a post on this, if it has already been mentioned) that the DVD of the movie is out. Found it at my local Walmart last night for under $10.

Thanks to all for sharing their knowledge on The Band.

Cajun Gal

Entered at Sun Jun 8 20:31:48 CEST 2003 from bob2.revealed.net (208.16.227.5)

Mike D.

OT, but Lars Ulrich of Metallica was into tennis quite bit before switching to music. Not a fan of them at all, but still worth sharing, no?

Entered at Sun Jun 8 20:28:15 CEST 2003 from bob2.revealed.net (208.16.227.5)

Mike D.

Lil made a good point. When I want to celebrate The Band I simply walk to the rack, grab a cd of theirs (any and all are worth spinning) put it in the player and press play. Music made by men who were not interested in the almighty dollar, but by men courting an artistic muse. And what splendid resuslts! Enough said.\

Sam, you never emailed me back about that After The Waltz set buddy :)

Entered at Sun Jun 8 20:24:18 CEST 2003 from sdn-ap-020castocp0481.dialsprint.net (65.178.73.227)

rollie

Subject: Now that you mention it Sammy!.........

Hope all is well with all you "BandHeads"......if you're in Pinedale ,Wyoming on June 21st ,stop in and say hello at the Blues Fest.I'll be performing along with , Billy Branch, Carl Weathersby,Zora Young, Blind Dog Smokin.........the Pentagon admits poor evidence concerning WMD.........no shit............

Entered at Sun Jun 8 19:31:26 CEST 2003 from va-spotsy-cuda1-c5b-95.frbgva.adelphia.net (68.65.37.95)

Charlie Young

Subject: Levon's Duet With Keith Richards

Levon's fine duet with Keith Richards (backed by the 1990's version of The Band along with Scotty Moore, D.J. Fontana and Stan Lynch)was released in 1997 on a CD titled "All the King's Men," covered in detail on Levon's discography on this site. Unfortunately the disc is already out-of-print.

Entered at Sun Jun 8 19:28:26 CEST 2003 from ac9e6f70.ipt.aol.com (172.158.111.112)

Rick S.

Subject: Tom Pacheco on WFUV-FM (NYC)

Tom Pacheco was on WFUV-FM (New York City) this morning with John Platt, "City Folks Sunday Breakfast." What a great forum for him. He spoke about songwriting (he writes about 50 songs a year); the two cities that most influenced him- Austin, Texas and Greenwich Village, New York City; how much Pete Seeger influenced him; and a little about writing for The Band and his friendship with Rick Danko. He performed with acoustic guitar and sang from his CD: "There Once Was A Time": the title song, "Heroes" and "You Can't Go Home" (which Rick Danko sang on "Times Like These". He said he'll be appearing at the Hudson River Revival on Saturday 6/21 and will participate in a songwriting circle the next day.

On a different note we'd like to send our hearts out to our pals Bashful Bill and Ruby who each suffered losses this week.

Entered at Sun Jun 8 18:46:02 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Do you think that these trouble-stirring fools that come through here are the same couple of people under a different name? I know that's not a new theory at all - but this Nickel guy is too close on the heels of the latest wackos.

Speaking of wackos :-)- rollie amd crabby have been laying low huh?

Entered at Sun Jun 8 17:04:48 CEST 2003 from xtreme-1-138.dyn.aci.on.ca (69.17.160.138)

Sonny Milne DRUMS

Subject: Pictures of Levon please

I recentley got a picture of Levon playing at Rosevelt stadium it made my day. I replaced Levon when they first left Ron. I was on the road lived out of the suitecase for more than twenty years and did not keep any pictures ect. If anybody has any more good pics of Levon I would apreciate if you post them . Any mucians out there Know when a individual playes a major part in your style you want lots of pictures of him Thanks

Entered at Sun Jun 8 16:56:50 CEST 2003 from 24-161-21-18.hvc.rr.com (24.161.21.18)

Lars

Subject: The Band

ROB NICKLE: I was shocked to hear that you have discovered a "feud" between ex- Bandmates Levon Helm and Robbie Robertson. And you have suggested that Mr. Helm should attack Mr. Robertson in order to get even, and also because Mr. Robertson might kill Levon if Levon doesn't act quickly. Also, you suggest that because Robbie is writing a different kind of music these days, this proves he couldn't have been the source of the Band's early music, it's so different. I guess what bothers me most is that everyone has avoided this injustice and has not had the courage to bring it out in the open here in the gb. You are obviously a man who speaks what he thinks, you are probably going to wind up bringing this matter to a just conclusion. You have courage. As soon as you're finished attacking that nefarious windmill, I look forward to you attacking this problem and setting everything straight so we can all live happily ever after.

Back on the planet Earth, Prof. Louie is playing at The Towne Crier next weekend and it should be a great show, as always. Good music, good people, good food, all await you at the Crier on Sat, 6/14. Phone is (845) 855-1300. In case you're not aware of it, Phil (the owner) is in the process of having a fireplace built in his home. Everyone is supposed to bring a small (80 lbs. or so) rectangular rock to help build this fireplace. Just pile it to the side of the door as you go in. Please, no shale or quartz. Earthtones are preferred.

Entered at Sun Jun 8 15:34:28 CEST 2003 from (212.31.242.99)

Empty Now

Subject: Lil, i am with you heart and soul

and with all who gived a wise opinion here below, about "The Feud"

it is curious, i just read a review of Nass-El-Ghiwan, it seems that no "feud" is mentionned between the survivor members after their Scorcese experience, i dont know why i am posting that, just an opinion, like an asshole...it's time to be POSITIVE

Entered at Sun Jun 8 14:46:18 CEST 2003 from (212.31.242.99)

Empty Now

Gnawa: i, a musician amator living in Algeria, discovered the today(s best Algerian band, and by the occasion their style of music in The Band Guestbook. beautiful...the Occidental world was for the first time aware of this style, at the widest audience, in the soundtrack of "The last temptation of Christ", titled "Passion" which credit was of Peter Gabriel, but which actually featured musicans from different horizons, Youssou Ndour (Senegal), Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (Pakistan), Ravi Shankar (India), Baaba Maal ( Senegal ), and a group from Morroco, Nass-El-Ghiwan, which for the foi the first time diffused the Gnawa style, though their performence at that time was not commercially conditionned. They featured the track titled "A different Drum" in "Passion". That soundtrack was for me the first World-Music experience, today in allows me just to settle the other connection between Gnawa and the Band: Both of them performed a soundtrack of a Scorcese movie...c'est un peu tiré par les cheveux, mais j'ai pas aut'chose...

In the early 80's, the Disney Channel introduced a style of cartoon illustrating some famous Rock-Pop hit songs, they called that, if my memory serves me well "Merry Mellodies", one sorte of clip in cartoon, one of them particularily moved me, " Stay" cover of Jackson Browne, i dont know if got money. The cartoon shows two hats, exposed in a shop-window style Mark and Spencer, a male hat (Stetson) and a female one (Galluron), they lived happy together, one day the female hat was bought by a snob richissima bourgoise, which later gived it to her servant, the latter was driving a car and throw it in a windy plain when it becames completely unuseful, brought by a stormy wind, the hat ended at the feet of an old farmer, who instantaneously put in on the had of his mule, while the Stetson, cofortablu installed in the Shop-Window went from the sorrow to the saddest during all that years...THE END
Beautiful...and i almost cry when watching that cartoon-clip........IIIIIIII...wa-aaaa-ant youuu staaaa-aaa-aaa-aaaaay....just a little bit loo-ooo-oo-ngee-eee-eeer......

Entered at Sun Jun 8 13:58:00 CEST 2003 from 1cust159.tnt31.dfw9.da.uu.net (67.234.14.159)

Tim Casey

Entered at Sun Jun 8 13:37:35 CEST 2003 from mcha-ab011.taconic.net (205.231.148.106)

Lil

I wonder why, in the grand scheme of things, all this bitterness seems to matter so much? Is it really making anyone feel better? Not me, I assure you.

This is "The Band" website. Not the Robbie website..or the Levon website. There were 5 members in The Band. If we're really here to celebrate them, we're doing a lousy job. Heck of a way to treat the 3 remaining people of a Band we all loved. Visit for a few minutes at Rick's grave.. or Richard's grave.. and maybe that will put it all into perspective. Life is short. Why waste it on anger? They didn't.

Entered at Sun Jun 8 13:20:17 CEST 2003 from px4wh.vc.shawcable.net (24.69.255.205)

rob nickel

Subject: The fued?

The rift between Levon and Robby never has been about money or who wrote what and when so much as I believe anyway, it's been about how one brother can willfully stab another in the back and go off to be seen as a hero in both his own eye's and the eye's of million's? I suppose there's always been those of us born without much of a soul? And even the very first set of brother's were as differant in personality as could be? Seeing one was supposed to have murdered the other, and all? But as differant as two people can be, I think there's a certain responsability one has to take when taking on the role of friend or brother or whatever the case? And Mr.Robertsons apperant lack of guilt at having let his responsability lapse as towards his bandmates, is what Levon Helm has been so righteously pissed off at, more than anything? It never fails to amaze me as often as I've witnessed it personally myself? But lets face it please? There's many of us ready willing and more than able to sell out his own for very little, unfortunately? And the truth is most feel nothing, at having done so even though they have to understand how unfair they've been somewhere down inside, I'd like to think? They simply go off to the next poor schlep innocent enough to accept them as friend, and start the entire ugly unfairness all over again? Never seemingly at all bothered by the fact none of the ones he/she tends to meet, mean anything to them at all? What's with the Robby Robertsons of the world anyway? And what's with the Levon Helm's types that continue to allow them to pull this same exact shit again and again, never seeming to be willing to stop them from carrying on, as it seem's? To me the R.R.'s still rate as the assholes? Obviously not the case in alot of other peoples opinions anymore, I keep seeing? Tell yah what Levon Helm? Go out and kick the crap out of the bastard, then see how you feel, OK? We all have a guy like him in our lives somewhere and it's high time we teach them resonsability, and what it means, don't you think? Otherwise, he might just raise up to kill you to one day, like Cain did, remember? And the world needs good drummers much more than it needs backstabbing two-faced lying doubledealing bastards, if you ask me? No matter how good a guitar player the scumbag might be? Just an opinion, and we all know what they say about them, don't we?

Entered at Sun Jun 8 13:02:56 CEST 2003 from (203.132.156.45)

Yazooman

Sorry, if the last post sounded too rude. Its really irritating when ppl spring up and start proselytizing abt music without even thinking or knowing what they are talking about.

Yazoooooo........

Entered at Sun Jun 8 12:28:47 CEST 2003 from (203.132.156.45)

Yazooman

Rob Nickel: Your view of music is so parochial and limited that it would be pointless to argue about the merits (or demerits if you insist) of Robbie Robertson's music. Either you are just intereted in flaming up the issue here.....or you are plain ignorant.

Either case you would be well-adviced to read up the GuestBook archive before insinuating anything more. If you have something worthwhile to add after that, that will be certainly welcome.

I, for one, am glad that Robbie moved on in his musical explorations....his solo music is quite amazing. The later Band's music was also slightly different from that of the original Band with songs like "Blues stay away from me" and "Crazy Mama"(which IMHO could make the concerts sometimes a bit weary in terms of content) which are quite non-Bandish in the way they sound (Am I alone on this?). This despite the fact that they were performed excellently. Even Rick in his solo concerts had a strong countryish bent in the 90s. As for Garth, its impossible to pin him down at all, he is a performing encyclopaedia of musical styles.

All artists evolve in their musical styles, for more for for less, e.g. Bob Dylan. But then its upto you how you react to it.

Entered at Sun Jun 8 12:01:54 CEST 2003 from schltns-3.demon.nl (212.238.196.9)

Ragtime

Entered at Sun Jun 8 11:49:16 CEST 2003 from px4wh.vc.shawcable.net (24.69.255.205)

rob nickel

Subject: Southern Belle

If you'd care to take a listen to R.Robertsons music since his days with The Band Southern Belle? You might just notice (hopefully?) that none of it sounds anything like the old Band classic's, he stole. While the guy's new cd's Jubilation and Jericho especially, could have come out anytime from the 1970's until the present time. And that these two cd's could easily pass for lost classic Band recordings while Robertson's newer stuff definately, could not! Robby Robertson handed Levon back his carrerr, and so he should just shutt up, you say? What the hell might you be smokin lady to have turned your mind into mush and taken your sense of reasoning so completely away? Levon has had every right to complain! That fake American Indian, is nothing but a rip-off prick, that gladly sold out his friends for profit, soon as he saw the chance, Southern. While anyone that's ever worked alongside Mr. Helm has nothing but good things to say about him. Doesn't take alot of brains to figure out which ones the liar, if you ask me? Robertsons not an American Indian either, by the way? And certainly no expert on them as he's seemed, to imply? If anything? He should have been punched out years ago, when it still mattered? But the guy does play a great guitar, ya gotta admit? Too bad that wasn't enough for him, and he let ego and greed become his main guidelines instead of talent and fair play. You still got enough jam in you to even up with him, Mr.Helm? Or? Would you please atleast consider the idea, of having certain other's, do it for you, charge free of course, that is? That two man team, that seemed to give you and Rick Danko so much pleasure, in front of the Vancouver Canada stage, that one night, would gladly help out with this matter, you know? And thank's for the stick, from that great show too, OK? You were hot that night. And a true class act as a band, in every possible way. One of the most memmorable live rock shows ever, in fact? And it still saddens me to know how that lowlife thief ex-friend of your's Mr. Helm? Would gladly take many more magical nights such as that one away from you guys, just to further his own pathetic carrer, like he did? What a putz!

Entered at Sun Jun 8 11:17:37 CEST 2003 from px4wh.vc.shawcable.net (24.69.255.205)

rob nickel

Subject: Levon Helm+Keith Richards

Managed to download a great tune called " A Duece and a Quarter" by Levon And Keith before deciding internet file shareing made it too easy for spy ware outfits out there to track your movement's, and getting rid of all programs such as Kazza or whatever it's called? Anybody know which cd this tune might be from? Did these two of my favorite musicians put out a complete cd together and if so what's it called and where do I get it? Thank's!

Entered at Sun Jun 8 09:45:17 CEST 2003 from (203.132.156.45)

Yazooman

Hi guys,

I am undergoing this corporate training as a trainee at a hill resort near Bombay. All at company expenses (with some salary deductions of course)....largely at company expenses....which its pretty cool.

Anyway since most of the company's clients are from the US they are trying to sensitize us to American culture and art. As a result, we have been asked to cover certain aspects of American culture,.........in my cup has fallen Rock Music. So here I am, trying to figure out how to get around doing this job. Either I can go chronologically (I prefer this) or I go genre-wise. Plus I need to cover different styles and sub-genres in rock music.

This being the best place to get info, I have a few qns for all the experts/non-experts here. How should I go about doing this ? What are the essential genres that must be covered ? Who are the essential artists who must be covered ? What are the essential albums from these major artists or sub-genres ? Any websites (other than allmusic.com)that can be useful for information ?

You can email me at yazooman (attherateof) rediffmail.com or better still you can write in your replies on the GB. That way there could be some kinda discussion which I could benefit from.

Yazoo.....

P.S. The idea is not about making my project work easier, but to represent the most blanaced and informative view of rock music that can be cogently delivered. ;))

Entered at Sun Jun 8 09:35:16 CEST 2003 from 0-3pool121-105.nas4.oakland1.ca.us.da.qwest.net (65.141.121.105)

Unky Sam

" It Makes No Difference "

It makes no diff'rence where I turn

I can't get over you and the flame still burns

It makes no diff'rence, night or day

The shadow never seems to fade away

And the sun don't shine anymore

And the rains fall down on my door

Now there's no love

As true as the love

That dies untold

But the clouds never hung so low before

It makes no diff'rence how far I go

Like a scar the hurt will always show

It makes no diff'rence who I meet

They're just a face in the crowd

On a dead-end street

And the sun don't shine anymore

And the rains fall down on my door

These old love letters

Well, I just can't keep

'Cause like the gambler says

Read 'em and weep

And the dawn don't rescue me no more

Without your love I'm nothing at all

Like an empty hall it's a lonely fall

Since you've gone it's a losing battle

Stampeding cattle

They rattle the walls

And the sun don't shine anymore

And the rains fall down on my door

Well, I love you so much

It's all I can do

Just to keep myself from telling you

That I never felt so alone before

Entered at Sun Jun 8 07:39:08 CEST 2003 from dsc02-dav-oh-5-243.rasserver.net (199.35.230.243)

Stephen L. Garen

Subject: Signs in Greenfield Interesting Side Note

Latest news from a friend of mine is that prior to Johnny Paycheck's death, a representative from Johnny's hometown of Greenfield Ohio was sent to ask for his approval to put up new signs bearing the words (or faximily therof) "Greenfield - Home of Johnny Paycheck." Johnny replied yes to the representative stating he wanted people to know where he came from. I have not been to Greenfield as of yet to verify, but word has it they have been made and placed along the roadsides.

Entered at Sun Jun 8 04:10:13 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

Hey Rich - That was Demon Seed. I don't remember the name of the computer's voice since I never seen the movie. But the guy who wrote that, Dean Koontz, Grew up 3 houses from me. He was born in Everett Pa. Everett is a dumpy little town south of Bedford Pa. It has one grocery store, and one old movie theater (I saw Carny in that theater in the winter on 1980) Anyway, everybody knew about the Koontz's, Their dad was a violent drunk who used to beat his children with anything he could get his hands and and go around the house threatening them them loaded guns. Deany would hide in the crawl spaces between the floors and write I guess. I was just a little girl but I remember Deany's mother running to the street and begging the neighbors for help... His father once ran a pick-up truck thru the front window of the State Store because the store was closed. If you don't know what a State Store is. It's a state run spirits store. They put him in jail for that. I remember lots of hideous things that went on in their house. Those stories Dean writes are ALL autobiographical. (take with grain of salt) Especially "Intensity" The neighbors should know.

Entered at Sat Jun 7 23:05:56 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Mrs. Henry

Subject: Levon's Filmography

If the link works, the Internet Movie Database (imdb.com) has a complete listing of Levon's movie and TV appearances. Of course, all the same information is probably somewhere on this site as well.

Entered at Sat Jun 7 22:24:24 CEST 2003 from m139-mp1.cvx1-a.swa.dial.ntli.net (213.105.228.139)

rich

Subject: how are you

hi roz and everyone in band land. how are things. on the music front, im thoroughly into led zep's how the west was won. it seems that the zeppelin juggernaut is on a roll once again. its a damn shame that considering all the great gigs the band played, there's so little apart from the LW,ROAGES,BTFLOOD and the1984 come back to show for it. i forgot about the WGLEN cd. what would i give for a 5 and a half hour dvd of band live performances in different venues. on the book front, im as always obsessed by rock bios. i found a cracking kinks bio. by 2 chaps called marten +hudson. superb. im also enjoying the updated yes bio. by chris welch. what a bunch of eccentric nutters. i saw them thu. night in concert. superb. on the movie front, its all retro. at the moment. i watched Performance the other night;mick jagger's finest movie hour. they dont make them like that anymore. the director donald cammell was a maverick in every sense of the word. movie trivia time. name the donald cammell directed cult classic about a demonic computer on the rampage ,terrorising julie christie. for an extra 10 points, who was the voice of the computer. take care.rich.

Entered at Sat Jun 7 21:10:30 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Curtis Blue

Jerry Garcia was an awful softball played, cheated constantly, made up rules that did not exist, tripped people as they tried to round the bases, changed the score. All in the name of good humor.

Entered at Sat Jun 7 19:34:45 CEST 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp190020.sympatico.ca (64.229.1.179)

brown eyed girl

Dylan/Illustrator...Painter
Woody/Painter
Garland Jeffreys...Studied Art in Italy
Louuuu...Photo exhibit in NYC
Many musicians studied at Art School....Keef...Bryan Ferry....and.....

When I purchased tickets for Garth's gig at The Senator at Rotate This Music Shop I discovered that the group someone else was buying tickets for was Toronto Alternative group who were honoured with best Alternative group at the Juno's.....was Broken Social Scene.....Small world.....One of the musicians in this group has a son who attends the same school where I teach........Fave song of this group....."Lover's Spit".....

Dave Z: I really enjoyed myself at the Bottom Line in NYC when I saw Garth with The Crowmatix and Canada's Buddy Cage on steel and all the boyzz on the horns.....I especially kept my eyes on the trumpet player.....Someone was sitting at my table who said he was originally from upstate NY and he kept singing away to every Band song.....I never asked him his name to protect my anonymity from further backlash......;-D.....When I saw Garth the second time at the Hard Rock Cafe with the Crowmatix again but this time with Maud there was someone who had the best harmonizing voice in the audience who told me that he was a former Hawk.....I just smiled and thought.....I don't care whether you're telling the truth or not.....You can really sing!!!!!!.....The third time I saw Garth was with Maud again at Jeff Healey's and I was exposed to The Weber brothers who reminded me so much of Rick and Robbie....The fourth time I saw Garth was with Levon at the Hawk Tribute at Massey Hall and when Garth first came on stage and stood by his organ and just rocked.....I was totally blown away.....Too bad Robbie wasn't there to complete the triangle.....the trinity.....and the last time I saw Garth and again with Maud was at the Senator where he shared his humour and his love of music.....I'm not a musician so I left the reviews to the experts...

Empty Now: I'm groovin' to "Sabrina" by Gnawa Diffusion....My home may smell like curry today but it sounds like Algeria via France via Jamaica......like one of my fave spices....garam masala....One Love....

Entered at Sat Jun 7 18:52:04 CEST 2003 from stjh1-5564.nb.aliant.net (156.34.173.190)

WS Walcott

Bob Seeger - track and field

Roch Voisine - hockey

Billy Ray Cyrus(sorry)- baseball

Ted Nugent - archery, big game hunting

Charlie Pride - baseball

Billy Joel - boxing

Entered at Sat Jun 7 18:44:23 CEST 2003 from cpe-65-25-199-100.mn.rr.com (65.25.199.100)

Dave Z

... really enjoying the big live sounds of the new... Live Prof. Louie & Crowmatix... the ROA horn section really jazz's things up too... Scarlet Begonias approaches a chaos of clashing instrumentation before returning back for a close... that's nicely done... and it certainly feels like their live show energy-wise... lot's a giggling guitars and organ keys... but, now I gotta go, we got one graduation party... and then the twins BDay Party at a nature center... have a good weekend Band fans!!!

Entered at Sat Jun 7 17:35:44 CEST 2003 from pop.bslsc.com (209.226.40.130)

Stanley Landau

Subject: Stage Fright

Bill from Toronto. I remember very distinctly where I was and what I was doing the first time I heard a song from Stage Fright. It was August, 1970 and I was driving through the intersection of Dupont and Davenport in Toronto when the greatest DJ in Toronto history, John Donabie announced that he was about to play a song from the new Band album. On came the opening chords of Time to Kill and the distinctive harmonies of Rick and Richard. MFBP and the brown album were like the old and new testament for me so I had been waiting with heightened anticipation for the third album, and I was not disappointed.

David Powell, forgive my ignorance but what is SACD?

Entered at Sat Jun 7 16:29:46 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

JTull Fan

Subject: Stagefright song order

I must agree that that song order of Stagefright works against the album. About a year ago I posted what I thought the order should have been, but found mine no more satisfactory! So I will not try again. Suffice it to say, Pink and Brown are partially as strong as they are due to impeccable song progression, and Stagefright lurches and jerks so that a proper album mood is never established. The songs on the album are among my favorites the Band ever performed, but the album is rarely played in my house start to finish, unlike the others in their catalog. Strawberry Wine is a logical first song IF the original, lighter album concept had survived. However, as PV states, it would have served better as a side one closer, serving a similar role as 'Third Man Theme' on Moondog. Stagefright, W.S. Walcott, Daniel,and Shape I'm In would have made dramatic openers. I'd veto Time To Kill as an opener as well as Whistle Stop, because they would give critics at the time something to pan the album with; 'The Band is just doing time', or ' Just another Whistlestop for these guys' etc. etc. All La Glory and The Rumour could have served as dramatic, slow openers in the same fashion as Tears of Rage on Pink. Since Brown opened with a travelogue 'Across the Great Divide', Time To Kill and Whistlestop may have seemed as derivitive choices as well, and weren't considered.

Entered at Sat Jun 7 14:02:49 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

Levon's fist acting experience came with Coal Miner's Daughter, Then came The Right Stuff I think, and then The Dollmaker, and then.. a cameo as a bible salesman...then .. ummm.. Fire Down Below... Robbie's first acting experience of course was The Last Waltz ....Sorry Robbie..

Rich! Hey Buddy

Entered at Sat Jun 7 12:43:49 CEST 2003 from m185-mp1.cvx1-b.swa.dial.ntli.net (213.105.232.185)

rich

Subject: levon +Deathhunt

dear bob. Deathhunt is a not half bad late career lee marvin/charles bronson adventure yarn set in alaska. it actually came out in 1980. ed lauter is in it;so is carl(appollo creed in rocky)weathers and a still stunning angie dickinson as lee's love interest.Levon is definitely not in it. hope youv won a few bucks just as i hope to do next sat.when i have a flutter on wales being hammered by your lot in the rugger by at least 70 points.cheers .rich.

Entered at Sat Jun 7 10:12:24 CEST 2003 from 1cust253.tnt14.syd2.da.uu.net (63.60.233.253)

Bob Heagney

Subject: Levon Movies!

Help me out guys. Can anyone confirm if Levon's acting career involved a performance in a 70's movie called "Death Hunt" with Lee Marvin and Charles Bronson? Got money riding on this one!

Entered at Sat Jun 7 06:59:28 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

I remember, it was a Diet Coke commercial Leland. I always thought that "Fanny" may have come from the fact that Levon always looked forward to doing the song "Short Fat Fanny" during the Hawks days. Cathy Evelyn said Levon used to tease her by looking her way and smiling while singin'it.

"No-where man and a whiskey girl
No-where man and a whiskey girl
They loaded up for a weekend
In the underworld

Don't you know that ain't no crime
Don't you know that it ain't a crime
If all the squares and the junk-men
Think we're out of line..."

Forget my sins
Upon the wind
My hobo soul will ride.....

Entered at Sat Jun 7 04:44:33 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

Did you really ride the rails after the war Tiny? I think you're just teasin' me with that but .. I had to ask. I actually almost did hop a freight once. Some of my mom's family worked on the old B&O and my Uncle Randy would tell these stories of hobo's around family gatherings when I was a kid. It got in my blood somehow. His wife Maxine, (she was German all the way) She would never let you leave her house until your belly was so full you could barely walk. She used to make Uncle Randy six or seven big hearty lunches daily so he could pitch them up to the guys ridin' the rails that day. I miss Uncle Randy. He was my mother's favorite brother, and one of the youngest in the family. I must admit that my favorite Unkle was "Ray" He played the guitar so well. He taught me. He drank like a fish, smoked like a chimney, cussed like a sailor, lied like a rug and drove like a maniac and he sure could play.... I miss you

Thanks for puttin' up with me here.

Entered at Sat Jun 7 03:22:46 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Curtis Blue

Subject: Ms. Welch

I had the great fortune to see Ms. Gillian at last years Americana Music Asso. in Nashville last Sept. She was just totally "IT" When you hear someone that Has "IT" you know. shivers up and down the spine.

Also at that show June Carter Cash and Johnny and the whole family played, they were great, I am sure it was their last performance there. It was such a shock that they were even there. People were crying. Myself included (i am a real man) I also met Emmy Lou that night and Buddy and Julie Miller. Then went out to the clubs and saw a great band out of DC "Last Train Home" and Billy Joe Shaver headlined it at the Belcourt theatre. Any one interested in going to this years event e-mail me Curtis B Blue@aol.com, please no spammers or lonely woman, ok the lonely woman are cool

Entered at Sat Jun 7 02:56:46 CEST 2003 from 1cust55.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (65.229.112.55)

Judge Judy

Subject: Joe Cocker

I hope Joe left the trade before causing any serious explosions. I don't think I'd want a guy with such jittery hands working next to me if I were in that profession! Singing was a much better choice. He's quite good at that!

Entered at Sat Jun 7 02:52:12 CEST 2003 from at-std10.nirai.ne.jp (61.25.183.10)

Fred

Entered at Sat Jun 7 02:37:09 CEST 2003 from ppp-0-25.glou-b-1.access.uk.tiscali.com (80.225.165.25)

union man

sadave - Joe Cocker was a gas fitter, by the way.

Entered at Sat Jun 7 02:11:15 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ben Pike

When I saw Gillian Welch (last time) they closed with "Long Black Veil"

Joni Mitchell. Stevie Wonder. Van Morrison. Bob Dylan. Ani Defranco.

Which name doesn't belong? It's a trick question. The Answer is none.

Entered at Sat Jun 7 01:19:22 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Subject: athletic musicians

I've read interviews with John Fogerty where he said that if he hadn't been a musician he would have tried baseball for sure. He's a big baseball fan, which is probably why "Centerfield" is so good. That tune will be played at ballparks here as long as "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" is.

BTW - I'm happy that J.C. Fogerty picked music.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 23:56:00 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-069.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.69)

Peter Viney

Stage Fright- side two – has that feeling that there might be some kind of connected story going on, not that you can ever pin it down. The thing is, those 5 songs glue together and equal the first two albums’ ability to indicate a connected feel, another link being that all five are by Robbie. Also, as John Bauldy said, those five songs are right up there with the brown album and Big Pink. Side one is more diverse. Time to Kill and Whistle Stop seem to fit together and are the most cheerful sounding things they ever cut. Sleeping and All la Glory are quite a different mood. Both are sublime. Strawberry Wine is fine, better than most stuff the 90s Band covered (so why didn’t they perform it) but is a bit generically bar band, so totally wrong for a starter, except it’s all uphill from that point. It needed placing elsewhere- it fits well enough with Time to Kill and Just Another whistle Stop, but they’re broken up by those lovely ballads. Track order on side one was wrong – Strawberry Wine should have been track 5 when you’re warmed up enough to appreciate the mundane done brilliantly. Maybe Time to Kill was the natural track one, but I think the album suffers because side two hangs together as having one mood and a progression, side one is diverse and brilliant, but doesn’t gel as a whole.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 23:44:13 CEST 2003 from custnets-66-43-82-136.rinc.net (66.43.82.136)

Charlie Young

Subject: Athletic Musicians

The thread about athletic musicians brings to mind those great Elliott Landy photos of Garth and the guys tossing a football around. When I saw Roger McGuinn last month he mentioned shooting a basketball with Dylan at his home in Malibu once.

The most athletic musician I know is Bruce Hornsby who often plays the National Anthem before sports events as well. Hornsby is a big basketball fan and still plays the game regularly. He and Branford Marsalis contributed to the Ken Burns history of baseball documentary soundtrack and played "The Star-Spangled Banner" in Baltimore (where Francis Scott Key wrote the lyrics) on the night that Cal Ripken broke Lou Gehrig's consecutive game streak.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 23:12:56 CEST 2003 from 213-48-209-89.wit.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.209.89)

Dave G.

Subject: Roz

Roz, you have 3 mails instead of one!
Just don`t ask!!!...Dave xx

Entered at Fri Jun 6 22:55:26 CEST 2003 from gpf-t200.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.200)

sadavid

Empty Now - thanks for the reply, I did visit Paris once so there is some terms of reference, although I wouldn't know one quartier from another arrondissement.

Having slagged "Time to Kill" a bit yesterday, last night I played Stage Fright thru starting with track 3. Much as I love "Strawberry Wine," I think Jamie from Baltimore is on to something here. And my compalint about a "too-regular" beat is off base, it still swings. I think any alt. sequence would still have to keep "The Rumour" as a closer. Probably the Marcus influence, I think this is an important song and both deserves and suits the end spot. One of my very favorite Manuel vocals on the chorus. "It's a-coming, a brand new day" - Richard sounds doubtful at first, but by the last chorus he's convinced, and so are you. I wonder if Christian Radio has ever picked up on this sermonette?

Cream's "White Room" was a breath of fresh air and still sounds great - it's one of those that will stop you in your tracks when it comes on. Dump on Clapton if you will, but a lot of his back-catalogue still moves me to a Pavlovian response of cranking the vol knob. Somebody used it on a TV commercial a couple of years back, and I caught my resident adolescents digging it - one of those minor but life-affirming "all is not lost" moments.

Al Edge, I loved your "Time to Kill" tale. Reminds me of a time I was at a party and found the brown album in the host's record collection. I asked him to put on "Jemima Surrender" so everyone would realize how cool I was. Also, I was smitten with a young lady last name of Barker, so I figured that word in the lyric would catch her attention.... And the song did express my...feelings.

Reaction essentially zero all around, except for some mutterings to the effect of "f__ing country music!" The host was hip, though - "good choice!" sez he, sincerely. So I guess the two of us enjoyed it.

Athlete musicians - I think Joe Cocker was a bricklayer or maybe a "hod carrier" (if that's a job description, we don't see much brickwork in this corner of the world). Reminds me of McAlpine's Fusiliers - "McAlpine's God was a well-filled hod" drinking their Ps & Qs, presumably down at The Bricklayers' Arms. I guess Joe held his own in that pursuit anyway.

Stage Fright - gorgeous, gorgeous bass in "All La Glory;" - the final frightful screech of Garth's intro to "Stage Fright" - the old vocal magic on "Rumour" - "could there be someone - someone here among this crowd."

Peter Viney, you're correct again - all of side two is right back to form.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 21:45:50 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

Curtis Blue

Subject: Martha

I told you to buy, not sell, now leave me alone I am with my friends

Entered at Fri Jun 6 19:31:40 CEST 2003 from 213-48-244-208.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.244.208)

Al Edge

PV - yeah the very same Pete. Must admit it always felt good in those booths. Like entering a womb. I'd imagine, he adds rather sheepishly :-o)

That was awful news on Mickie Most who no doubt you like me will recall seeing most frequently on New Faces alongside Arthur Askey and Tony Hatch.

Bill - yeah they were them. Give me just a little more time and I'll remember another of their repertoire!! :-o)

Entered at Fri Jun 6 19:13:25 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Here is an updated list of the Dylan albums currently set for release in the hybrid SACD format on August 19, 2003:

The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan
Another Side of Bob Dylan*
Bringing It All Back Home*
Highway 61 Revisited
Blonde on Blonde*
John Wesley Harding
Nashville Skyline
PLANET WAVES !!!
Blood On The Tracks*
Desire
Street Legal
Slow Train Coming*
Infidels
Oh Mercy
Love and Theft*

(* indicates that a 5.1 SACD multi-channel layer is included)

Many, myself included, are wondering why Sony chose to do a 5.1 multi-channel mix for "Another Side...", a recording that is just vocals & guitar or piano.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 18:56:32 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Harry & Mim

Subject: 7/12/64

Having just listened to 4th generation copy of this concert from "Levon & the Hawks", we had our opinion reconfirmed that (in the words of the infamous Morris Levy) they were "the best damn band in the world."

The sound quality is quite poor; however, that is more than made up for by the performance. Unequivocably, this recording proves to us that all other "rock & roll" music in 1964 was still "growin' up" - these fellows (along with Jerry Penfound on this date) WERE GROWN by 1964 and it was a long time (in rock music "years") before anyone (except maybe Bob Dylan) even came close to the professionalism and excellence captured at Port Dover, Ontario on that July night almost 40 years ago.

This kind of puts "The Band" (OK, pick your own nom de plume) right square behind Elvis, Little Richard, Jerry Lee, Ray Charles, etc., etc., and very much IN FRONT of The Beatles, Rolling Stones, etc, etc., and your other "'60s" "rock heroes."

Sticklers for high fidelity will be disappointed in 7/12/64; those whose ears & souls can "filter out" the poor recording and reach the purity and power of these 27 songs may know what we're talking about.

What a find... Song list under 7/12/64 in this websites' "Tape Archive."

Entered at Fri Jun 6 18:47:08 CEST 2003 from (206.191.84.251)

Martha

37OHSSV O773H

Entered at Fri Jun 6 18:30:12 CEST 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Bones

Entered at Fri Jun 6 17:43:11 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Peter: I believe the Canadian levy directs money to Canadian publishers, and I can't think of any Robertson (or Danko or Manuel) songs that were published up here. Certainly some very early Youngs were, and possibly some very early Mitchells, but none of the songs that made 'em famous. But they'd all get money from the US levy, I'd bet.

I first heard "Shape I'm In" while sitting on the easy chair in the living room some afternoon after school. Quite possibly as spun by dj John D. The only earlier songs (non-Band) that I have specific memories around hearing for the first time were "Jumpin' Jack Flash" (my bedroom, around 8:00 pm, said to be "a CHUM world premiere") and "White Room" (stepping down from the living room to the kitchen). The latter was for some weeks in early '69 the only song from CHUM's top 100 of '68 that I didn't know (having come to the world of pop radio in the fall of '68). In my excessive compulsive way I listened and listened ALL the time until I knew ALL the songs from the list. I don't think that this has anything to do with the fact that I still think that "White Room" is one of the most beautiful and powerful rock songs of all time.

Al: By Chairman of the Board, do you mean the soul group Chairmen of the Board? If so, you and I seem to be about the only two people who found them lacking - though I'll add that I do like one of their hits, "Chairman Of The Board". The oddest part of reading your reference to the group (if it was) is that I was going to mention them two days ago because Harrison Kennedy, who sang "Chairman Of The Board" but none of their other hits, is the cousin of Jackie Washington, who plays around here with Mose Scarlett, who John D mentioned in a post. And all around the circle.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 17:27:58 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

I wouldn't give up my vinyl for all nothing. I have always hated CD's. I still listen to my old black covered Roy Buchannon and the Snakestretchers. Scratches, pops and all. I just love it. It's comforting. I have to buy Cds for the newer stuff released, but I transfer all my favorite pieces to a good quality Maxell and sell the cds back to the company I buy them from. Good deal! "Elderly Instruments" in Lansing, Michigan. That company sell really nice instruments too. New and used. Great prices and I haven't been disappointed yet.

Frank - Hun, Go into eBay and get ya a copy of Dead Man's Walk. I know the English VCR's are "PAL"..whatever that means.. but it's worth a try.

Thanks to the poster who mentioned "Daddy and Them"...Has it been released or is it going the way of Dirk Benedict's "Cahoots" and can't find distributor? Those money hungry Hollywood bastards anyway!

Entered at Fri Jun 6 17:08:25 CEST 2003 from (204.60.19.230)

Todd Atkinson

Subject: Technical stuff

Bayou Sam & Calvin: Thanks for your additional input on the vinyl to CD question.

Hi Rosalind, It may sound like technical stuff, but the pursuit of retaining snap, crackle, pop and the warm fuzzy sound of LP's is all about heart; which I agree is the most important part of the music. :-)

Entered at Fri Jun 6 16:58:06 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Subject: Dylan SACDs

If you're confused over these new digital formats, join the club, you're not alone. This is the deal with the upcoming Dylan Super Audio CDs -- They will indeed be hybrid discs that have a standard "redbook" CD layer playable on regular CD machines along with a high resolution 2-channel SACD stereo layer that requires a SACD player to read it. These will be the first Sony hybrid SACDs to contain a standard CD layer. In addition, recent reports are that 5 or 6 of the Dylan releases will also include a SACD 5.1 multi-channel mix. A multi-channel SACD set-up is needed to play this layer. Among the albums rumored to include a 5.1 mix are "Bringing It All Back Home", "Blonde On Blonde" and "Blood On The Tracks".

It should be noted that Sony has previously released a SACD version of "Blonde On Blonde" that contains only a high resolution stereo layer playable only on SACD machines. The original stereo master mix-down tape for "B.O.B." has apparently been rendered unusable from the years of wear & tear as a source. Sony has gone back to the original 4-track session tapes and re-mixed them for the SACD version.

When the 15 Dylan SACD titles were originally announced, the "Live 66" was included. Recently it has been reported that it has been dropped from the list of initial releases (:-(.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 16:42:53 CEST 2003 from dial81-135-38-46.in-addr.btopenworld.com (81.135.38.46)

Frank

thanks for the leg up on Dead Mans Walk, i have read the book and live in hope that the BBC will air it over here sometime ... Band link maybe ya all know anyway but Harry Dean is a big pal of Levon,s, a very musical fella as well...a tobacco farmer from Georgia/Alabama parts i think...Levon once called him up on a radio phone in show he was doing a while back and a funny conversation ensued. Rosalind i read Duanne,s Depressed also and the most frightening thing was as a 43 year old i was identifying with a 63 year old .... i have been living with too many responsibilities for too long its friday evening i,m quitting in about half an hour and its off to Fegan,s lounge for a cold one and some celebrated company..have a nice weekend all

Entered at Fri Jun 6 15:51:01 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

If you can find the sequel to Lonesome Dove, it's called "Dead Man's Walk" actually, the sequel goes back to the young days of the two guys you mentioned. It stars Harry Dean Stanton, Keith Carradine, David Arquette and a few others who's names escape me now. Wonderful little proformance by a girl named Patricia Childress...It has a funny bunch of unusual characters... great casting. "The Searchers" is one of my very favorite westerns of all time...I love that scene you mentioned. Harry Dean Stanton is another one of those faces who can redeem a bad picture with mere presence. I guess y'all want to get back to the technical stuff now. There ain't no soul in tech stuff for me. I use my heart, not my brain.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 15:30:10 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-107.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.107)

Peter Viney

Nancy- the cat just hisses at me in a vicious manner. I think I should move to a CD-Rom dictionary as it is safer when thrown. Except that like every film and TV show, all computer equipment here has a prominent Apple logo and the Oxford one only comes in PC versions, and we have a distinct dearth of PCs. There! I can use it now.

Al- I assumed that the NEMS booths in Liverpool had that drilled fibreboard, as did the booths I knew in Bournemouth, Norwich and Hull in the late 60s. Did people use to pick holes in it? It was always a sign of a well-cared for listening booth when someone had splashed a bit of magnolia emulsion over the holes picked by listeners. I think you could even light up an Embassy and stub it out in the chrome ashtray stand. So it was probably blue asbestos or whatever inside, though I recall people breaking off and chewing the odd bit when engrossed in an LP. I mention this as the papers put Mickey Most’s untimely death down to asbestos in soundproofing board. The booths in our snobbiest department stores had glass doors and a bench seat covered in Wimpy-red plastic. While there was more privacy there to pick bits off the wall, the selection of “pop” LPs was poor compared to the more basic record shop. A greasy headset isn’t the same experience.

John Cass- at a guess, Hybrid SACD will be like the Rolling Stones remasters – that is with an ordinary stereo track playable on normal CD players, and a 5.1 (or enhanced stereo) track for SACD players. Blonde on Blonde has to be the first purchase, even if you already have the Gold CD.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 14:50:58 CEST 2003 from citrix1.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.5)

John Cass

Subject: Bob Dylan

A friend just told me that they are releasing 15 classic Bob Dylan albums on Hybrid Super Audio...

what the heck is Hybrid Super Audio????

one of the albums listed was Planet Waves..

Entered at Fri Jun 6 14:12:31 CEST 2003 from (212.31.242.117)

Empty Now

innondation = flood
catastroph = natural disaster

i try

Entered at Fri Jun 6 14:03:10 CEST 2003 from (212.31.242.117)

Empty Now

Thank you essentially for your interest to BEO. Dont blame me for my review of Gnawa Diffusion, i wrote it the day i discovered the band, when some The Band mates are unable to describe them correctly after 30 years of listening. Anyway

I really enjoyed your interest of BEO, i gives me the opportunity to present it in my way, i am always trying to emphasize the good side of things, though i risk to touch some sensitivities and awake some gosths.
Physically it is a pure European city which was constructed during the French presence in Algeria 1832-1962. it is Paris - Saint Germain des Prés a sunny day, for that aspect of the question, there is really no difference. I said it is a symbolic place, btw the more important is the spirit of BEO that i gonna expose. Like any symbolic place, many people evoke it without ever being there, it is exactly the case of Amazigh, who was born and is living in France.
The majority of the former french colonial population, now living in France, Canada,...claim they are the true spirit and native of BEO. thus this is the widely spread meaning of the place. After the independence, and the crescendo serial of problems, there is an new population essentially composed by youngster, who gived a new meaning to the place, without spoiling its history..given the material situation, it is not yet exactly Trenchtown...
Some celebrities embodying the spirit of BEO: Alexandre Arcady, Robert Castel, Roger Hanin, Merzak Allouach, Sheikh El Anka, Alilou (a footballer)....
All who knew that place, conserves a special attachment, when different communities meet together in BEO, it is always a special moment...
in Oct 2002, there was a natural catastroph, innondations of BEO 30000 homeless people. The first VIP who was received in the middle of the population without bodyguards was Jacques Chirac. The essential of the aid to the victims (the real substantial aid) was undeniably the money collected by the Jews, throughout the world, while i read a shit of post here below, criticising similar actions like if it were a curse.
i've rarely been in BEO...

BEG: Santana-Paco: give me some time

Entered at Fri Jun 6 11:53:18 CEST 2003 from i006-199.nv.iinet.net.au (203.59.6.199)

Nancy

Peter: thanks, it sounds like your wife's smarter than both of us put together. How's the cat recovering?

Entered at Fri Jun 6 10:29:03 CEST 2003 from dial81-135-11-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com (81.135.11.172)

frank

IN THE SCENE WERE AGUSTUS LAY DYING , ATTEMPTING TO WRITE TO THE TWO WOMEN IN HIS LIFE WITH SOME GREAT DIFFICULTY, WOODROW LEANS OVER HIS LONG TIME FRIEND AND SAY,S AWKWARDLY ''YOU WANT ME TO HELP YOU WITH THAT'' TO WHICH THE DYING McCRAE REPLIES ''WHAT WOULD YOU KNOW TO SAY TO A WOMAN'' YEAH BOY THAT SCENE AND THE ONE FROM THE SEARCHERS WERE ETHAN EXITS THE DOOR OF THE JORGESON RANCH JUST PRIOR TO THE CREDITS LEAVE ME WITH A LARGE LUMP IN MY THROAT [IN FACT I,M BECOMING QUITE EMOTIONAL NOW JUST THINKING ABOUT IT......] LEVON LOVES THOSE TWO PIECES OF WORK AS WELL AND IN PARTICULAR IS A BIG ADMIRER OF ROBERT DUVALL ... FOR ANYONE WHO IS INTERESTED.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 09:40:15 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-027.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.27)

Peter Viney

Al - I could see the fibreboard with holes drilled in it the NEMS Listening booths. I heard Time To Kill first between 3.30 and 4.00 on Saturday Afternoon, on the radio in my Mother's backgarden. A very sunny day here. I was re-reading "Day of The Locust" for the third time as I was in the midst of writing my thesis, which makes me either 22 or 23 at the time.

Hi Curtis- because we'd discussed Levy, I looked in the index of Levon's book and was suprised to see how many references he had. The subjective is important. Your grandmother got ripped off by family, so your hackles rise at the very thought of someone being ripped off by family (or close enough to feel like family). So you go for Levon's rather bitter view. In my case, I've worked with collaborators who did not pull their weight until it came to assigning credits, when they suddenly became alert. I've had people come back years after something was written and moan unjustly about shares. I've worked in teams with passengers. So I go for Robbie's point of view. No doubt we're both wrong and the truth is somewhere in between, because subjectivity is in there with both of us.

But as for Levon's Levy quotes, he chose to say them, put them there and after proof-reading the book, leave them there. You'd have to call it a considered opinion.

I found your points about the Mafia illuminating (though not surprising). Even in our quiet British seaside town, in the last 15 years one club has "caught fire in the night" three times, always in new opening weeks.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 08:27:02 CEST 2003 from at-std10.nirai.ne.jp (61.25.183.10)

Fred

Bayou Sam: I'm surprised no one's asked that question before! (or they may have and I simply didn't notice it!!)

Sam: A simple answer to your question: No.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 08:06:42 CEST 2003 from 0-1pool34-136.nas1.oakland1.ca.us.da.qwest.net (65.139.34.136)

Sam

Fred=Could that be trouble you are trying to start?

Entered at Fri Jun 6 08:06:17 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Fred = I'm glad you asked because I've asked the same question in here. I've wondered how some of the people who hate Robbie so much can even log onto this site and have to see his face on the screen. After some of the names Robbie's been called in here lately, I wonder why the person(s) were even searching the net under "The Band". That's how bad the anger seems sometimes.

I'm glad you asked.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 07:50:41 CEST 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3612556.sympatico.ca (65.93.192.177)

brown eyed girl

Vincent Furnier could run 100 metres like no one else
Rod the Mod could have been a footballer
Louuuu always wanted to be a line backer but played games of the mind instead....like Dylan.....;-D
Nils Lofgren was a gymnast
The Hawk! was a gymnast
Bob Marley played football daily to stay fit

Empty Now: How about Santana's "Europa" by D Yango y Paco de Lucia?

At the same time, if music is the universal language, the most intelligent and soulful - it is jazz.....because it deals with the total spontaneity and it's the perfect balance of vitality, heart, soul, intellect. Blues and certain things require you to just feel it. You don't have to be Einstein but you have to feel it. You have to compensate by having twice as much feeling like John Lee or Muddy Waters, for all the other chord changes you might not be getting.....But the most elite - it is jazz. It is people like Miles Davis and Wayne Shorter who for me are the highest mountains......Carlos Santana

Entered at Fri Jun 6 07:39:27 CEST 2003 from at-std10.nirai.ne.jp (61.25.183.10)

Fred

Rosalind: you are right on the money about Robert Duvall. He is one of those few actors (Morgan Freeman & Ed Harris are two others that come to mind, although there are others)) whose presence alone in a film will bring it's level up a notch or two (even if the flick is a clunker....Days of Thunder comes to mind, without Robert Duvall it would have been much worse than it was), kinda like Garth Hudson's presence on numerous CDs (LPs for you vinyl lovers)

A question: to those people who nastily and rather tastelessly disparage either Robbie Robertson or Levon Helm .....how are you able to enjoy listening to The Band? Do the Robbie-haters eliminate the guitar on various tracks? Do the Levon-despisers erase the drums & vocals? What do you do when you watch The Last Waltz?

Entered at Fri Jun 6 06:54:37 CEST 2003 from 24-161-21-18.hvc.rr.com (24.161.21.18)

Lars Pedersen

Subject: "we can't have all things please us, no matter how we try..."

CURTIS- Thanks for the heads up on the new Gillian Welch cd. Like Roz, I like her "Revival" album, my favorite track is "One More Dollar." Anyway, I just wanted to say what a kick it is to have a real NY Jet in our guestbook. And, if I'm not out of line, I think you have to work on your screens, you're releasing your block too early and the opposing linebackers are on to you.

I've seen the photos of the young Band members playing football on their lawn and I've wondered who was the best athlete. Probably either Rick or Levon, although Richard looked like he had good hands and Robbie was reportedly fast on his feet. Didn't Rick play some hockey in his youth? And later turn to wrestling cigarette machines? In Levon's book, Libby Titus said the first time she ever laid eyes on Levon it was in the middle of old Woodstock and Levon was trying to kick a car's door in, so he obviously had a good leg for kicking a football. And later, in the 90s, The Band had Randy Ciarlante with them and he's quite strong. He could carry some huge stones back in his stone mason days; I know, I was sometimes on the other end. I haven't worked with him in years, but he is an athlete.

So I guess some musicians were athletes in their youth. Tom Jones and Billy Joel were boxers. Glen Fry was a body builder. So Curtis, I've seen your moves, maybe someday you'll leave football and become a singer. Just get a good agent, always get paid in cash on the night of your shows, don't go overboard on the brownies backstage, and stay away from courthouses.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 05:10:21 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

I cannot allow this Robert Duvall thread to pass by without mentioning a beautiful little independent film from 1972 called "Tomorrow". It also starred a woman named Olga Bellen in a simply exquisite proformance. William Faulkner has been quoted as saying that "Tomorrow" was his favorite piece of his work ever brought to screen. Also Duvall knocked me out in a movie called "The Rain People" playing a womanizing cop who's wife and child were burned to death while he was "out". I won't even get into Lonesome Dove.... Robert Duvall is an American treasure. All the Pacinos and De-Niros in the world couldn't touch the richness of heart that this one man brings to us thru a piece of ... whatever that stuff a movie screen is made.

Curtis - We both love Gillian Welch.... I didn't know she had brand new record out "Revival" had to grow on me before I could fully apreciate but the first album hit me like a truckload of Mountain Laurel from heaven. Thanks for the sweet words..

"Go tell all yer chil-rin
That Hell ain't no dream
Cause ol' satan, he lives
In that whiskey machine
And in my time o' dyin'
I know just where I'm bound
When I die, just tear that stillhouse down

Tear that stillhouse down
Let it go to rust
Don't leave no taste of that hidin' place
Where I made that evil stuff
For all my time and money
No profit did I see
That old copper kettle was the death of me"

Dave - Getting back to ya..got yer email.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 04:20:31 CEST 2003 from va-spotsy-cuda1-c5b-95.frbgva.adelphia.net (68.65.37.95)

Charlie Young

Subject: "El Condor Pasa," Plus Neil and Emmylou With Brian Wilson

Empty Now: you are correct on that line from the Paul Simon song. I've been hearing it wrong all these years. Amazing--and there's a bathroom on the right...

I didn't think I'd live to see Neil Young and Emmylou Harris backing Brian Wilson on "Surfin' USA," but that's part of the grand finale of another great new DVD called "Brian Wilson On Tour." The sound is superb, as is the editing and bonus material. I actually saw Brian play a twin bill with Paul Simon a couple of years back, and his backing band on the DVD is the same twelve talented people. They are brilliant musicians and Brian seems to be having the time of his life. His music never sounded better--and that is as good as music gets.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 03:54:41 CEST 2003 from usr1624-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk (62.30.238.110)

Dave G.

Subject: Roz

Hi!Roz,check your mail if you get chance later,DaveX.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 03:38:03 CEST 2003 from usr1624-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk (62.30.238.110)

Dave G.

Subject: "If you don`t like the music!...."

Hi Pat,and all!..I remember standing in a small R`n B club a few years ago, watching my favourite regular gigging group called "The Trevor Burton band"..(he used to be the bass player in the "Move"..for anyone who wishes to know, but he now plays blues and John Hiatt,Warren Zevon type stuff)..Anyway I`m at the bar..and who should stand right next to me but "Robert Plant"...Oh yes indeedy!.

The funny thing is..I`ve never been a fan of the Zep,so I didn`t even pass him the time of day!.
Well, to cut the story short, he stood at my side for about 20 minutes, caught a few of Trevor`s numbers and departed with a beautiful spanish looking girl(around half his age!) in tow...He even said "Enjoy the rest of the night.." as he walked out(my girlfriend had been talking to his girl!)

I suppose in retrospect, I should have attempted to get his autograph..when I told my Mom the following day, she was in a state of shock!..(I wasn`t aware she was a big fan!)
No matter how famous a person is though, if you don`t really like the music..they are just normal people!..nothing special!( Well that`s the way I see it anyway, hehe!).

I paid the price though!...I had to do my own washing for a week!( I was living at home at the time..hehe!)

Entered at Fri Jun 6 03:16:36 CEST 2003 from mcha-ab083.taconic.net (205.231.148.178)

This is interesting...

Southern Belle aka BWNWIT aka The Judge: I just entered The Band chat room. (2:58am MET) Southern Belle aka BWNWIT aka The Judge: oh sorry, i furgot to introduce myself properly (2:58am MET) Southern Belle aka BWNWIT aka The Judge: i'll jus keep scratchin my butt (2:59am MET) Southern Belle aka BWNWIT aka The Judge: I just left The Band chat room. (2:59am MET)

Entered at Fri Jun 6 03:01:20 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

No Bones, Levon wasn't on Letterman monday night. John Mellencamp done a Robert Johnson song ( not to well either, in my opinion) and as they went to commercial the band started the intro to Dixie. I think Dave must have been congradulating Anton on his drummin'

I got stones in my path way
And the road seems dark as night
I got stones in my pathway
And the road seems dark as night
I got pains in my heart
That have taken my appetite"

Entered at Fri Jun 6 02:51:25 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-226-162.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.226.162)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Fri Jun 6 02:48:44 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-226-162.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.226.162)

Pat Brennan

pjlbrennan at mindspringdotcom

Shelby Foote is a god.

Entered at Fri Jun 6 02:48:02 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Curtis

Subject: Gillian

Has anyone heard Gillians new record,its a toss up who I love more Roz or her, I know, I know Im late

Entered at Fri Jun 6 02:37:32 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Curtis Blue (Martin, jets running back)

Subject: Sun came out

Mr. Viney- You say in an earlier post you are feuded out, then post selective comments from Levons book? What is it to be Mr. Viney, more debate? I just find it odd that you take Levons own words (as told to Steven Davis)at their face value, but dismiss any of those other words pertaining to writing credits. I also find it odd that when Rick Danko voices his happiness at just "not have to get a real job" and pleased just "to get any credit" you take him at his word. When he at another time say's "Twilight" is as much his song as Robbies song, you dismiss that as sour grapes or bitterness. Please explain just one more time for me Mr. Viney of your view, Thank you sir in advance.

Here is a little personal story from me. My Grandfather Elijah was a fairly wealthy man, he worked hard his whole life , took good care of my Grandmama,my Mom and her sister Helen and their brother Ralph. This was a tight knit family that grew up in a tough era, depression era in the Northeast and being Black on top of that. He was a self made man, came from nothing, finished his business life owning a steel company (not the big one) a lumber company with 4 large yards and a sporting goods company. Made the dream come true. He got old, enjoyed himself till he passed on. My Uncle Ralph was the executor of his estate. Robbed Grandmama blind. Spent and squandred millions of dollars. When Grandmama died the truth finally came out. My Mom of course was devastated, she could not believe that her brother could do such a thing. Ralph was a good businessman they said, nicest man in the world to talk to. After a very large fight, my Mom never spoke to him again. He died years ago but she only thinks of what he did, not what he meant to her. I feel the same sadness here about Rick and Richard. Greed can do strange things to people.

Mr. Viney- You bring up the Mafia and Morris Leavy and the bad old days of the music business, without going into to much detail about what I do for my living, it is much , much worse than it was. Not only is the Mob still so deeply entrenched in the record industry, they out right own the club business. In New York if you want to do any type of music related business at a high level, clubs of more than 200, wedding, corporate, to playing the big rooms, The Garden etc, You are dealing with the Mafia. No if ands or buts. Here is a little secret, John Gotti was not the Godfather, he was a street guy. He was the guy put up by Government to show "hey see we are taking down the Mob" See? I read on this site on a daily basis about CD burning and rading back and forth and hey is cool everone does it, "Hey I just down loaded and burned this new bands CD and I hear they are coming to play in my town, maybe I can get some phoney press passes and get in for free. I see this stuff on a very large scale. I have to ask the question, why do people think this is OK?? When you burn a CD and don't buy it from your favorite artist you are making it more and more difficult fromthem to survive as an artist. What happens when they can't afford to make music anymore? This is a HUGE SERIOUS PROBLEM. Everyone is dirty. Thats the music business. This being The Band website i am guessing you folks don't know much about Gangsta' rap, lots of killings.

Mr. Brennan, Thank you for accepting my apologies, Please tell me what you did write, I would be very interested in reading your works, if you won't tell me Roz will. I read all of Shelby Footes books and enjoyed them very much, history can sometimes be a dry read but he is such a great story teller, I did have to take copious notes,Names, names , places, places, ugggg!!!!!! my memory is not what it was as you my friend well know. Do you know which Lincoln book that I am talking about? Could you tell me the author?

Roz, I think I have fallen for you, yes it must be love.

Southern Belle, My dear, you are an anrgy one. A young Mr. Helm Fornicating with every young girl he has seen??? The only young 19 year old budding rock star thats done that !!!!!! I am shocked !!!!!!! And drugs also????????? Oh my God, should we call the police on him ?????????? During the 70's ???????? My My, he is a BADDDDDDDDDD MANNNNNNNNNNN. Children out of wedlock ?????? Oh this is just getting worse by the minute. Perhaps a speeding ticket?Kicked a dog once ??????????? SOunds like you have it all going on girlfriend, I can book you on Jenny Jones..... I am guessing you were one of Mr. Helms conquests in the old days. Did he give you the old " just going out for some smokes darlin' be right back" He used that one alot. I love your "OK, so he added a phrase and a line or two, Robbie did most of the work" No question Robbie did most of the work, But not all of it. That Ms. Belle is called collaboration, he should be paid as much for one line as one hundred, those are the rules, I don't make this stuff up

Once again I am late for my 8 o'clock meeting and I must blame all of you because I never do anything wrong, enjoy your evening

Entered at Fri Jun 6 01:33:34 CEST 2003 from 213-48-240-136.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.240.136)

Al Edge

Interesting slants on Stagefright from PV and Sadavid. Thanks fellas. Triggered my own memory banks, too, with your reflections.

And my own recollections?

Well I can remember as if it were yesterday the overwhelming anticipation I felt just prior to the album's release.

I was nineteen and desperate for it. No not that. Well yes okay that too. Still am in fact. Oooh matron. Bloodyhell, stop it will yer, it's getting like a Carry On sequence with Kenneth Williams and Sid James.

:-o)

No seriously folks in this instance I was referring to my more heartfelt desires for The Band to adopt a cleaner crisper more commercial feel to their music than Big Pink and The Band. No reflection on the first two albums of course as you'll know from my recent posts. Indeed, it was only a fleeting aberration as you're about to discover. I mean, even back then I knew those first two releases had been special, though I certainly didn't appreciate quite how special until the passing of time afforded me that crucial perspective only it can.

Fact was, though, the sole commercial success in England had been Rags. Indeed, it was the sole Band commercial succes ever in Britain. Joan Baez's 'Dixie' clearly didn't count. Credibility in my musical taste back then amongst my mates hinged on something a little easier to access than what the Band had offered up on those earlier albums. Quite simply not one of my mates could get anywhere near their stuff. No matter how determinedly I attempted to coax them it seemed the harder I tried the less they wanted to know. The sun and the east wind and the man in the overcoat come to mind.

Fact was they found The Band damn near impenetrable. What was perfection to my ears spelt downright drudgery to theirs. Motown, Stones, Beatles et all was their bag. Still is in fact. Though we travel differing roads....

Anyroad, little wonder that I longed for The Band to trade in some of that down-home authenticity for a dollop of commerciality.

Also, needless to say [though I will anyway], back then radio plays of ANY Band material in England were rarer than honest bucks on Wall Street. There simply weren't any. So little comfort or help from that source either.

Then one evening, home promptly from work down on the new North Liverpool dock, I turned on the radio to a sound I instantly recognised. It was my heroes. No doubt. Individual voices may well have been indistinguishable to me back then but two years on from Big Pink, there could never be ANY mistaking the overall sound.

Well, as PV and Sadavid so rightly pointed out the lighter mood of Time to Kill had me utterly transfixed. As Robbie's guitar rounded it off, the prospect of me wooing my mates with this altogether more accessible sound had me tingling once more. Surely this was it. I could scarcely sleep that night as I awaited the chance to vanquish the doubters and sceptics amongst my fickle buddies.

That weekend it was into town for the single. Tommy, George and Billy reluctantly accompanied me as I assured them that this was the one that would finally convince them once and for all that all along I'd been right about The Band's greatness. For their part they, of course, were ready and willing to deliver their verdict. Judge Dread had nothing on them!

Into the acoustic booths of Nems we sauntered - yes Sam those very same ones The Beatles used only 7 or 8 years earlier to marvel at Little Richard's and Chuck Berry's latest American imports. This time it was for the judgement and verdict on Time to Kill c/w Sleeping.

Disaster!

Despite my frantic pleas it bombed like the Scouse entry in the Eurovision Song Contest [one for the Brits]. Nil Points. Scarcely a flicker of even begrudging acknowledgement from any of them. Tommy and Billy frowned dismissively. George, a gentler more compassionate soul, looked at me apologetically before patting my shoulder sympathetically and marching across to the counter with the other two philistines to hunt out the latest Chairman of The Board abomination.

I, meanwhile, listened with heavy heart to the 'B' side and Richard's mournful ode to getting some decent kip.

Now if only The Band had had Pete Viney to guide them back then perhaps they'd have released The Shape I'm In first off the album. And perhaps I wouldn't have had to wait nigh on 32 years to have a group of mates with whom I could share my musical indulgence.

Worth the wait though! ;-o)

Entered at Fri Jun 6 00:48:34 CEST 2003 from cpe-65-25-199-100.mn.rr.com (65.25.199.100)

Dave Zed

... the new Led Zep DVD is awesome!!!!!...

Entered at Fri Jun 6 00:20:13 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-016.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.16)

Peter Viney

Levon on Morris Levy (from This Wheel’s On Fire):
“The Hawk leaned over and whispered to me, “Be polite to Mr Levy, son. He’s Mafia up to his eyeballs.”
Morris was one tough cat and practically owned Broadway back then. He knew all the big boys and nobody messed with him.
Morris OWNED (Alan Freed) who liked to gamble and accepted cash- hundred dollar bills in a brown bag – in exchange for playing songs… ‘We can’t miss with those cats behind us,’ said The Hawk.
Whatever his reputation, Morris treated us like royalty … spent a lot of money wining and dining us.
Forty Days was Ronnie’s rewrite of Chuck Berry’s Thirty Days … and Levy put the big guns behind it.
Morris Levy leans over and growls (to Bruce Bruno) ‘That’s the best fuckin’ band in America.’

The old Hit Man of Roulette Records never served a day, no matter what was said about him.

That’s alright then. I’m glad they never knew he was crook, had little to do with him and were quite innocent in those songwriting credits.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 23:32:25 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-031.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.31)

Peter Viney

Well, if the Canadian CD-Audio levy goes to Canadians only, it goes to some good ones (assuming residence is not a qualification). Robbie, Richard, Joni, Neil - can't think of many better destinations. I hope Morris Levy's levy goes astray though, unless of course Levon gets paid for it, which I'd rather see than Levy / MacGill. I bet "Burch" doesn't get paid on it.

Time To Kill- first track I heard too as it got the early radio play. I moved from devotion to thinking it was a lesser track once I'd enjoyed the greater delights of side two. Side two has the real killers. They should have started with The Shape I'm In on side one.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 23:07:07 CEST 2003 from gpf-t199.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.199)

sadavid

Subject: Empty Now / Pat Brennan / Jamie from Baltimore

Empty, your description of Gnawa Diffusion was very intriguing, they should hire you to write the liner notes when some major label does a world-wide release. I take it that BEO is a physical place as well as a symbolic one - how would you describe it, physically?

Pat, I look forward to reading your book and studying the full-colour diagrams, annotated set lists, etc. I did read your article on the WG disc with great pleasure, I had somehow managed to overlook it before this. I also read it with some dismay - to your credit, I think you got through it without once using the words "fraud," "sham" or "disgrace." Although, as you imply, miserable packaging cannot sink great content.

Jamie, you raised the question of "Time to Kill" as the natural opener for Stage Fright. The art of sequencing can be complex; as I think Peter Viney mentioned some time back, it often has to do with key signatures, tempos, what sounds right musically. "Kill" was my first favorite when SF was new on the market, mostly because I love the word-play in the lyrics. Now it's my least favorite (but one I like to sing along to) mostly because I find the guitar part a bit sappy-sounding, and the beat's too regular. There's something a bit too John Denver / Ozark Mountain Daredevils granola-crunching back-to-the-land cheerful about it. I don't think "happy" is The Band's strong suit. Like beer, I say the darker the better. It may not have been planned with this in mind, but "Stage Fright" is sequenced with the lighter stuff in the middle and salted evenly amongst the heavier tunes.

"Kill" got a lot of airplay (for The Band) around here at the time of release, but in later years it's "Shape I'm In" that I seem to catch on the radio more than any other Band tune - and I would say "Shape" is a much stronger song.

So should "Time to Kill" have been the opener? In the words of the Edge, "f_____ if I know" - once you've hear a record a hundred times, you need more imagination than I've got to hear it any other way.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 23:06:31 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Peter: Don't forget Morris Levy, Jacqueline McGill, et al!

Anyway, I suspect that the pot of money from the levy that you're referring to goes only to EU (or even just UK) writers. The analagous Canadian pot, from the sale of blank tapes and CD-Rs, is divvied up among Canadian writers. I think there's a levy in the US too, presumably for US writers only, but it's much less than either of ours, or so I understand.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 22:58:15 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-038.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.38)

Peter Viney

Apart from being easy for transferring on a CD Recorder in a hi-fi system, the (small) price difference for CD-Audio goes into a pot for distribution among composers and artists. It is no doubt as most of these things are "Unto him that hath, shall be given more, sayeth the lord" but at least you are giving a few cents to the people who created the music, and hey, Goffin-King, Willie Dixon, Chuck Berry, Lennon-McCartney, Robbie Robertson, Richard Manuel et al deserve it!

Entered at Thu Jun 5 22:37:28 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Bones: I didn't see the show either & I've been curious myself to see if anyone responded to your earlier post. As you well may know, in addition to featured music artist that appears at the end of the program, guest musicians frequently sit in with Paul Shaver & his band to play throughout the show during breaks.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 21:49:28 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

The only Algerian music I have is a hauntingly beautiful CD by Abdelli on the Real World label. Recorded in Brussels using Berber, South American and Ukrainian instruments. Engineer David Bottrill would connect to our guys via Daniel Lanois and Peter Gabriel.

On the Malian front, I have a fabulous one by Boubacar Traore, which I picked up at Harbourfront when I saw him perform there to an enraptured audience. (I was there to see Colin Linden - with Richard Bell on keys.)

All in all, there's an amazing amount of great stuff around from the Arabic / North African world. My favourite remains Lebanese singer Fairuz, who I'd recommend to anyone. A relatively painless place to start would be one of the hEMIsphere series - there's one called "The Story of Arabic Song" that she's on. But the BEST thing that I know of you'd have to write away to Beirut for - some Easter songs that she recorded in the early '60s. I have them only on an English EP that I bought for the cover (I like Arabic lettering) at a junk store in Tenby a few years ago. Had never heard of her, so wasn't expecting much, don't understand Arabic and don't care all that much about Easter, but her singing from the point of view of Mary watching her son's crucifixion is exceptionally moving.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 21:33:22 CEST 2003 from adsl-66-72-192-64.dsl.clevoh.ameritech.net (66.72.192.64)

Calvin

I had the pleasure of catching David Murray and the Gwo-Ka All-Stars a month or so back. While technically Gwo-Ka is a musical style from the Caribbeen Island Guadeloupe it, according to Murray's website, and Afro-Carribeen style of music.

Regardless, I likes it enough to go out and search for some Gwo-Ka music but alas there isnt a Gwo-Ka section at Borders although I did find a CD or two. Good stuff-a good night as well-after David Murray I had tickets to Stanley Clarke's late show just down the street. Nothing like a good music festival.

I found an article on using a computer to burn from vinyl on Amazon.com a month or so back. Perhaps the original poster can find information there.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 21:19:53 CEST 2003 from (212.31.242.98)

Empty Now

Believe me, i discovered today Gnawa Diffusion. Amongst the thousands of successful and talented Algerian groups, the critics placed that band above them all. Unfortunately, i missed all their albums, i think their former are the best, i just listened today to their last one "Bab El Oued Kingston".

Bab El Oued, literally The River Gate, is a symbolic zone of Algiers, and btw of Algeria, it was the place where the french gathered from all the territory for their departure in France, the day of independence July 5th 1962, a birtyhday of Robbie. Nowadays it is a popular zone, the symbol of difficulty of life of the (independent) Algerian youth. At a meditative level, it is a place of special affection for everyone who recognized himself in the Algerian entity, a former French colon, an Arab, and an Algerian Jew, may meet in BEO, each of them will forget his race, his religion, and especially his social class (warning if you're in BEO), they will surely spend a nice moment of emotion and strong feelings together...

The force of Gnawa Diffusion resides in their lyrics, that makes their songs hardly enjoyable by a non French-North-African speaker. the text is of regional concern. The leader of the group, Amazigh, is the son of Kateb Yacine, a monument of french literacy. Fortunately their (high quality) music is a melting of cultures. The word Gnawa is a general Afro and North-African musical style. I liked the track "Dakka Bambara" (the Bambara are an ethnogroup from Mali), and the main song "Bab El Oued Kingston" which begins by these words:

I am going to Jamaica just for the label
I will be back with Marijuana and spend the night stoned outdoor
As a serious threat against the government...

good program in perspective...

Entered at Thu Jun 5 21:17:45 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Bones - I didn't happen to catch letterman on Monday - but according to the shows website, John Mellencamp was the musical guest. That dosen't mean Levon didn't make some kind of an appearance. I hope this helps your quest to find out.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 21:15:37 CEST 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1b-a-3.hhe.adelphia.net (68.168.202.3)

Amanda

Bones: I didn't see Levon on Letterman.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 21:09:44 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Not only is Billy Bob in "The Apostle" but Billy Joe (Shaver) is too. Mr. Shaver, the Texas singer/songwriter, plays Joe, the reformed drunk, who is Sonny's (Mr. Duvall) best friend. There's a scene in the movie that I was thinking about the other day. When Sonny's mother, June Carter Cash, dies, Billy Joe has this look on his face that is so real that one has to think he's really feeling something & not just acting.

"I'm just an old chunk of coal, but I'm gonna be a diamond some day." -- Billy Joe Shaver

Entered at Thu Jun 5 20:37:22 CEST 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Bones

I thought I would keep asking until I got an answer. Butch??

Southern Belle: Your attack on Levon is as ridiculous as everything I have read lately about Robbie. I assume that was your point, but it does not make this place any better.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 20:29:53 CEST 2003 from adsl-66-72-192-64.dsl.clevoh.ameritech.net (66.72.192.64)

Calvin

There are moments in that film that are just scary good, Duvall for the most part has never gotten the credit for his acting skills, mostly because his contempararies DeNiro and Pacino tend to be so flashy and over the top they overshadow him. FOr my money though he is as good as any of them and has certainly aged better. He still tends to put out incredible work, the others not so much.

No offense meant Amanda, and I certainly wasnt blaming them. I just meant it was a hot spot, much like politics, that people who have been around here a while no better than to visit too much. ANd I dont know if they are really new, but they arent names I remember seeing before recently and I tend to, like many of us, visit here a couple times a day.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 20:00:29 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

Billy Bob was in my very favorite scene in The Apostle. he played a guy so reeked with conviction that he came in during one of the meetings and stood in the back of the church and demanded to know what a preacher with a name like "Apostle EF" was doing preaching, and to a black congregation at that. So Paster EF took this rebellious cowboy rascal out in the old churchyard and kicked the shit out of him, came back into his church rubbing his bloody mouth, and commenced singing "I Love To Tell The Story". Later on Billy Bob rolled up in a bulldozer during a camp meeting on the grounds threatening to doze over the church. Apostle EF laid his bible down right in front of the dozer and said "You want to get to my church, you're gonna have to roll that dozer over this Holy Book to get to it." Billy got down out of the dozer to move th Bible out of his pathway and ended up on his knees being prayed over. He received his salvation that day. That, for me. was the most authentic piece of work in the whole film. I've seen things like that happen myself being raised in the Holiness church. I've had that Holy Roller type conviction hit me a few times... it sends you in one of two ways - flying out the exit door and landing in the yard or flying to the alter and landing on your knees.

I started to cry this mornin' watching June Carter Cash ... dare we say, Johnny can't be too far behind. I hope they walk the streets of glory hand in hand when his time comes...and when all our times come too.... God Please Bless Us

Entered at Thu Jun 5 19:56:49 CEST 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1b-a-3.hhe.adelphia.net (68.168.202.3)

Amanda

Subject: June Carter & Johnny Cash, Calvin

I got this mp3 from a Dylan list. Act fast, the person doesn't know how much longer he can keep it up. He thinks it may be the last "Jackson" ever performed.

Calvin: It wasn't Judge Judy, Curtis or Dale that started the songwriting/feud issue. How do you know these posters are new anyway??

Entered at Thu Jun 5 19:36:09 CEST 2003 from h-68-165-56-97.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.165.56.97)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Thu Jun 5 19:30:27 CEST 2003 from plantlogic.com (209.195.208.11)

bassmanlee

RE: Penderecki, you can get a taste of his mind-blowing choral works by listening to the track "Acid Annapolis" (I'm pretty sure that's the one) on Leon Russell's 1972 "Carney" album. It's basically Leon's multi-track rip of Penderecki's choral style. My brother, a music major at the time, had an LP of Penderecki and it was pretty out there - overlapping atonal moanings in cyclical patterns. Think the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey mixed with Phillip Glass, on acid? Trippy stuff at any rate. This was supposed to be Robbie's inspiration for "The Work", maybe an extension of writing instrumental themes like The Last Waltz theme. Not being able to write down melodies put a serious crimp in this ambition, however.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 19:13:51 CEST 2003 from (61.240.164.10)

Richard

Subject: 'Apostle' / 'Basement Tapes'

Pat: Yes indeed. Billy Bob has a small part in the 'Apostle' as the local bad vibe. It’s also worth noting that Duval has a small part in “Sling Blade” as Billy Bob’s father. I guess I was thinking more along the lines that BB probably wishes he could write or direct a movie this good.

And thanks for your opinion on the Band tracks from the CBS 'Basement Tapes'. I was thinking myself that they sounded like they were _composed_ post 'Pink'. I don't know what makes me think that...

Entered at Thu Jun 5 19:13:34 CEST 2003 from adsl-66-72-192-64.dsl.clevoh.ameritech.net (66.72.192.64)

Calvin

Yeah, sorry about the Al-I did get them but I had lost your email so I was unable to let you know. ANd I try to avoid personal messages on the GB-plus the Bruce CD did say not to mention it on the internet, ;)

I couldnt agree with you more Kerry, even though I tend to agree more with Robbie's POV regarding writing credits, it doesnt make me think one iota less about Levon as a person or performer. THe thing is, most of us who have been around awhile realize we arent changing people mind and never bring it up. It always starts when new people like CUrtis, Judy and Dale begin posting. I'm not blaming them mind you, just stating fact, it is always new people who bring it up-unaware it's been done to death without conclusion.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 19:05:15 CEST 2003 from tow40dhcp369.towson01.md.comcast.net (68.33.41.113)

Kerry Schaffner

Subject: chill out people

People...this has become very tiresome. I do realize that I am not as old, wise, or good with words as most of you are, but I do know that every other post on this GB says a lot of b*tchy and negative things about Levon or Robbie...get over it. Just think about the people who have never been on this website before...if they read half of the posts on here they would be shocked. You are ruining their GB experience (that sounds corny). Don't any of you remember why you came on this website in the first place?!? Its great music...don’t tire yourself with useless arguing. Not to sound cliché but...Can't we all just get along?

Entered at Thu Jun 5 18:51:28 CEST 2003 from h-68-165-56-97.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.165.56.97)

Pat Brennan

Curtis, no need to apologize. Memories play tricks with the passing of time.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 18:42:53 CEST 2003 from (61.240.164.129)

Richard

Subject: 'The Apostle' / 'Daddy and Them'

Now you're talkin' Roz. 'The Apostle'. One of the finest. Billy Bob Thornton wishes his movies were this good. June Carter Cash is immortal...

Hey, has anybody actually seen "Daddy and Them"? I understand John Prine steals the show with a bit part and his tune "In Spite of Ourselves" was originally composed to be part of the soundtrack.

I spotted one review on the IMDb...

"I saw a rough edit of this film in December of 1998 and thoroughly enjoyed it. I can only wonder at what has caused the release of this movie to be delayed. The movie is set in suburban and rural Arkansas. The plot follows Billy Bob Thornton's character and his girlfriend played by Laura Dern. They belong to one of the most dysfunctional (and funny) families ever portrayed on screen. Most of the family members have serious problems with communication and alcohol. The family dynamic is further complicated when one of them (Jim Varney - rest his soul) is thrown in jail. Varney turns in an astounding performance and it's a true shame he isn't alive to see how the critics are going to react. The cast is full of quirky, interesting characters that are easy to connect with emotionally. John Prine steals the movie as the focal point of what is probably the most important (and hilarious) scene in the film...which I won't give away here. I highly recommend that you see this movie..."

Entered at Thu Jun 5 18:24:59 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Subject: vinyl to cd

Todd = I have the same set-up as Peter. I have a two tray CD audio deck - same as the double cassette decks that we probably all still have. It let's you pick from analog and digital when you burn from a source such as record, tape or whatever. When I burn CD to CD, the burner does it all, including the recording level. When burning from an analog source I'm able to set the level. I do get a true CDR of the record's sound. The trick can be getting those blank cdr's that Peter mentioned. They have to say "digital audio" on them, or the burner won't be able to read them. Since most people burn with thier computers, these cdr's are not stocked by the stores as much as the computer ones are. I've left many people at the local computer stores scratching thier heads when I ask for the "digital audio" cdr's.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 18:23:47 CEST 2003 from host213-122-194-78.in-addr.btopenworld.com (213.122.194.78)

Al Edge

Presume you must have missed my post a few days back. Did those cd's ever find you - Bruce Christmas special and gene Clark Sivery Moon?

Entered at Thu Jun 5 17:53:58 CEST 2003 from ptnm-sh5-port14.snet.net (204.60.19.14)

Todd Atkinson

Subject: Vinyl vs. CD

Thanks to David, Lil, Peter, Jamie, Red and Sadavid on your responses to my vinyl to CD question.

My gut feeling was that you do retain some of the warmth of the analog even if there are other compromises. It seems to me that it will be worth it.

As a commercial photographer, I've been using digital cameras for the past five years. Recently I've gone back to film for certain things, especially personal work and portraits. As good as digital imaging has gotten; film still has certain quality that hasn't been replaced yet. It seems that this parallels the audio situation somewhat. I think that I will have to upgrade my turntable to notice a significant difference.

Regarding LP's and the joys of hiss, crackle and pop, I've noticed some musicians, especially Beck adding noise to their CD recordings. I guess George Harrison would have been happy with that.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 17:50:52 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

Curtis - I'm happy you enjoy my posts. I love to hear that. If I can make anyone smile, at any time or any place, either at me or with me, I'm pleased. I guess I'm kinda like Andy Kaufman. That comment about Pat's books ... I was just teasin' Brennan. He said " Curtis Blue, I have (as Roz will tell you) written two books on the Civil War." That's why I mentioned you, cause he directed his comment to you ... That's all I meant Hun.

Southern Belle from Arkansas - It's great to hear some passion coming over in Robbie's behalf! If we HAVE to hit that "fued" button once in a while - Nail it from both sides! Burn it at both ends! That's what I always say!

I just watched "The Apostle" Oh Man --- A Wide-Awake On-Fire Holy Ghost Explosion on a Screen! Almost as good as David Terrell's Red White and Blue tent!

I'm a Soldier in the Army of The Lord
I'm a Soldier in the Army
Got my Brass Plate on
In the Army of The Lord
I got My Brass Plate on in the Army....

What's the first thing I think about every mornin? (JESUS)

Who is The Rose of Sharon? (JESUS)

If I walk down the street who walks down there with me? (JESUS)

If I have a car accident who's gonna come down and heal me? (JESUS)

Say it again ! (JESUS)

Once more ! (JESUS)

Bee-ut-ti-ful!

Dave G - Email Me if ya want to.... rosalindrichardson at webtv.net

Entered at Thu Jun 5 17:45:47 CEST 2003 from gpf-t198.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.198)

sadavid

I wore out one copy of the brown album (the original textured fold-out with Granny Smith-green label; never checked for whose initials were between the lead-out grooves) and was well into the second when I lost all my vinyl in an unfortunate accident.

I bought the CD 2 or 3 years ago, and find it sounds much, much better on my old cheap Sony boom box (with headphones, that is, the speakers are like what you might find in a stock Pinto) than the LP ever did on my old component stereo (say $200 vs. $2000 without factoring for considerable inflation). There might be something in the dynamic range argument, and CDs are too fiddly for dinosaur fingers and failing eyesight, but I don't miss the hiss.

Maybe I don't got good enough ears, but I was never able to hear the "hard" or "metallic" quality some have claimed against digital, or the lack of "warmth," either. It might be just a failing of memory, but I don't think I ever heard Rick's bass properly before. The beauty of his playing is really remarkable. There's a quote somewhere about Levon being the only drummer who can make you cry - make the appropriate changes and the sentiment applies just as well to Mr. Danko.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 17:36:41 CEST 2003 from adsl-66-72-192-64.dsl.clevoh.ameritech.net (66.72.192.64)

Calvin

You brought up an interesting point Peter, concerning RR getting richer through film work. As the Band was never really a big selling group and I believe Dylan owns the rights to some of their earlier songs, exactly how much are we talking about? Not as much as many would like to believe I'd guess. I read somewhere that RR made more money off of Schreck (sp?) the previous year that he did the entire Band Catalouge, is this possible?

Entered at Thu Jun 5 17:02:12 CEST 2003 from shop.visual.arts.uwo.ca (129.100.120.62)

Red

I've read the GB for a few years now but I seldom post. I find myself reading it every day like my regular morning paper. It's always interesting, even the sideshow barking on feuds and politics.

Last night I bought a new C.P.U. for my computer with a sound card that will allow me to transfer vinyl to cd. This morning I found a discussion on exactly that. I prefer the warm vinyl sound but transferring to cd, will allow me to play things I have only on vinyl, in my car or while I'm working. I find old pressings, especially in Mono to have more punch than subsequent repressings or cd remasters. If you enlarge a digital image smooth curves show saw tooth edges and in my opinion digital sound has the same characteristics.

There has been some discussion of music from different countries. Is anyone here interested in African Pop and Traditional music - Thomas Mapfumo, Tuku, Orchestra Virunga, Toumani Diabeti, Orchestra Baobab, The Rail Band, Remy Ongala?

Entered at Thu Jun 5 16:44:08 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-036.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.36)

Peter Viney

Curtis, I’m kind of feuded-out fot the moment. I do read your posts, but I’ve said my say. I’ve been down that route myse;f with so-called collaborators who did not pull their weight (no pun intended) and know what it’s like to carry passengers – as some of The Band were in the later albums- however talented they might be. When the person comes back THIRTY years later having remembered things differently, you dismiss them. The feud does seem to grow as Levon got poorer and Robbie (through film work) got wealthier. So I guess Robbie’s assessment is right. Rick muttered a bit, but not a lot. Garth not at all.

I’ve got the rest of that Marilyn movie. She’s carrying the Dostoevsky, and she’s wearing tiny glasses and has her hair in bunches. Inexplicably, she’s the least popular girl in the college, and boys never look at her. Anyway, while leafing through the Brothers Karamazov, a speck of book dust gets in her eye. With a tiny sigh she removes her glasses to get the speck out. A soft tear rolls from the corner of her eye. Is it the dust or her public lack of appeal? But at that point every boy in the school suddenly realizes that she’s beautiful, and all are instantly smitten. Future archaelogists unearthing 20th Century movies will assume that removing spectacles is either a mating ritual or a powerful aphrodisiac.

Penderecki. There’s not much of it about, at least round here. There is stuff in the shops, but it’s all choral religious stuff from way after the Robbie fascination period. I was looking a couple of years ago, and the symphonic instrumental material that is about is not spectacularly unconventional (no more so than Stravinsky to me), and is melodic. I picked up a £3.99 cheapie with Symphonies #2 (1979) and #4 (1986). But there are notes on the CD sleeve that say “In the mid-1960s his style became more conventional and this generated a renewed interest in the symphonic form. This did nothing to prepare the world for his unashamedly populist 2nd symphony.” So all this extreme avant-garde stuff must be older. The first symphony was 1973 - right when Robbie was heavily into him, but I’ve never seen a record nor heard it. I guess there’s not a lot of call for it. Robbie was following the path set by McCartney and Lennon who also got into the further edges of classical music. I put it down to something in the water (or Kool-Aid).

Entered at Thu Jun 5 16:40:07 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Subject: Burnin' Love of CD-Rs

In reponse to Todd Atkinson -- a CD-R copy sourced from an LP does retain a good deal of that analogue warmth, as well as certain favorable qualities relating to the dynamic range. You do lose a little bit of that warmth in the transfer to digital, but it's nothing like the generational loss inherent when making copies with magnetic tape.

As an example -- a CD-R copy of "the brown album" made from the LP conveys more of those deep "wooden" tones that distinguish the original vinyl version. The most recent Capitol CD reissue, on the other hand, sacrifices warmth for the clarity of detail and sounds coldly metallic in comparison. Then there is the issue relating to the original mix-down tape, which has been unavailable for Capitol's use for digital remastering. The source tape they used for the CD reissue is a second generation copy used as production or cutting master.

For the recently released DVD version of the Beatles video Anthology there's a supplemental disc of extras. In one of the segments of the disc, the late George Harrison discusses the topic of reissuing Beatles material. While many mastering engineers, even those who have worked on the Beatle CDs, like to use a lot of "no-noise" technology, Mr. Harrison remarked that he liked a little bit of "hiss".

Entered at Thu Jun 5 15:51:40 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Southern Belle

Subject: THE Feud

I am so tired of reading about this dang feud. If Levon Helm helped write the songs, which lyrics did he write, what music did he originate? Ok, so he collaberated with the others. How come they didn't come up with the same songs they did when they were collaberating with Robbie Robertson when they went out on their own? Because they may have contributed a phrase or two, or a bar of music, but the bulk was done by Robbie Robertson.

He bailed on The Band not once, but twice. First when they were with Dylan, then after the Last Waltz. He could have gone the way of Pete Best, but Robbie Robertson was the one who handed him his career back on a silver platter while he sat on his butt in Memphis. If he and Robbie Robertson were hardly speaking in 1976, why did he ask Robbie Robertson to play on his first album? If he was being cheated out of writing credits why didn't he get up on his hind legs and demand what was due to him? He didn't because he enjoyed getting the steaks but didn't want to slaughter the cow. He let Robbie Robertson do all the work him and then whines when Robbie Robertson gets what is due to him for all his effort.

Levon Helm claims to be a God fearing man. Well I am sure God was in his heart when he was fornicating with every young thing he could while he was up in Canada, when he fathered two children out of wedlock, when he was shooting up heroin in Woodstock, and when he followed Richard Manuel's advice and lifted up his glass and said "Spend it all!". Didn't turn out to be such good advice.

The fact is that if it wasn't for Robbie Robertson, Levon Helm would still be in a bar band backing up Ronnie Hawkins. Now he is back on the bar band circuit backing up who knows who. If you are going to have a party you gotta pay the band. Levon Helm allowed Robbie Robertson to pick up the tab, so he should just hush up and be grateful for what he's got. He should take a lesson from Bob Dylan, who he seems to admire:

.."Since every pleasure has an edge of pain, Pay for your ticket and don't complain..."

Entered at Thu Jun 5 15:42:16 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

Curtis Blue

Mr. Brennan- I must extend my sincere apologies to you for my obvious blunders. I read a book called Watkins Glen about 5 years ago, and I believed you were the author. The truth of the matter is it was so poorly written and horrible, but I did not want to say that. Could you tell me what books you wrote, I would love to read them and I promise I wont comment on them. I am very much a Civil War fan, not of the actual war mind you, just the historic nature of it. My favorite book was one on Lincoln, I forget the author, I no longer have the book as I made the mistake of lending it out. It was one of the finest books I ever read, Lincoln dies on the last page, I of course was shocked (joke) do you know it? I was at Watkins Glen and also the Roosevelt Stadium show, in Jersey City. What a dump that place was. I believe that was a minor league baseball field at one point. I also remember that the benches in the stands were set on fire, I think it was that night but I saw the Dead there a few times so it may have been another concert. Watkins Glen was the Bands day, just tore it up, played better than anyone by far. The night before the Dead had playd very well, but the day of the "real" show it was all The Band. The Roosevelt show was great also, Jerry Garcias birthday, The Dead were the best I had ever seen them, they played actual songs. So Mr. Brennan, your right I was completly wrong and confused. Please forgive me.

Jeff- I would like to purchase your CD, I looked in Amazon.com and Tower.com and they did not have it, I may of course be confused again and not looking under the right title, I am under the Guestbook fever.

Roz- I really enjoy your posts,but I am confused as to what you meant about me. There I am confused again, I need to stop eatting out of those aluminum pans.

I think Mr. Viney is no longer listening to me. I think I angered him.

Chad is the man, Vinney is finishd, your right I am the Quarterback coach for the Jets, who gave me away? We all have our fingers crossed. I hear Viney is out "clubbing" with Mo Vaughn. Oh good I am late again and its not my fault at all.

All the Band songs were Collaborations Mr. Viney, clear as a bell to me and many people (you no longer read my posts so thats ok, just doing my part to keep the feud alive)

Entered at Thu Jun 5 15:19:05 CEST 2003 from va-spotsy-cuda1-c5b-95.frbgva.adelphia.net (68.65.37.95)

Charlie Young

Subject: SUBDUDES

Wow--I did it again. And the sun is actually out today. S-U-B-D-U-D-E-S. Subdudes.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 15:16:39 CEST 2003 from va-spotsy-cuda1-c5b-95.frbgva.adelphia.net (68.65.37.95)

Charlie Young

Subject: Sundudes Compared to The Band

Click "My Link" for a concert review from today's "Washington Post" that compares the reunited Subdudes to our guys...

Entered at Thu Jun 5 15:02:55 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-073.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.73)

Peter Viney

I immediately said to myself, ‘Ah, it’s spelled ‘dirth’ and picked up the normal Oxford Advanced Learner’s dictionary I use. There was a distinct dirth of dirth, derth and durth. So I tried Longman, Cambridge, Encarta and Collins. No. So to the Shorter Oxford 2-volume dictionary. Still a dirth of dirth, derth or durth. So to Webster’s Third. The dirth remained a dirth. If it’s not in the Shorter Oxford it has to be amazingly low-frequency, but I knew it and use it in exactly the same way as you did. This had me really puzzled. Then my wife walked in and asked why I’d thrown piles of dictionaries at the cat, which was shivering in the corner. I explained the conundrum which she solved. It’s spelled DEARTH. Which now looks right! I was just about to phone the dictionary dept at Oxford and ask, which would have done no good to my spelling cred.

For animal rights activists, the cat in the above paragraph was fictional.

When I was a student I admitted to my professor that for the first six months , I’d taken lecture notes with the word EMPIRICAL and had only slowly come to guess the meaning. ‘Why,’ he asked, ‘didn’t you simply look in a dictionary?’ I explained that I had, but as I assumed it was spelled with an initial I, the dictionary had proved bloody useless.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 13:59:01 CEST 2003 from i006-199.nv.iinet.net.au (203.59.6.199)

Nancy

Re: "derth" in my last post - there is NO such word in the english language (Oxford Dictionary)! I was trying for a word meaning "very few". I have no idea what the right word is now, but am confident Peter can think of one, hopefully one that sounds something like "derth".

Entered at Thu Jun 5 13:38:24 CEST 2003 from (212.31.242.112)

Empty Now

Al Edge: your warm reply went straight into my heart, thanks

Charlie Young: i beat you (for the first time in my life), the next verse is:
"I'd like to feel the earth beneath my FEET"
which is not a less stupid lyrics, quoique environementalement écolo

BEG: i guess that thanks to you, i gonna discover Gnawa Diffusion, what an irony...Thanks for your comment about my last post...eternal beauty...i thought eternal humanity...a struggle against despair...thanks to the GB and Jan, i found an opportunity to prolong the message (dated 25 years ago) of Father Dominique and Jean (cited in the post) whose work is Robbie worthy, in their way, in a much more hostile area, i guess....my post is a tiny spark, it wont be wasted, i am sure... Thanks BEG

And all my other true friends (yes yes, they exist): Thanks for all the nice and flattering email replies following my disposition of stopping my anonymity (Empty Now, what a stupid nickname)...while i enjoyed all the sweet words at an equal level, one reply particularily flattered my ego, enough for i post it without mentioning the author, then i am not spoiling the law, the email is under privacy restriction:
"you look like the number 6 member of The Band"
OHHH Reeeaaallyyyyyyy?.... The best compliment i had in the last decade....6 almost the number of the beast and LONG LIFE THE BAND

Entered at Thu Jun 5 13:24:35 CEST 2003 from i006-199.nv.iinet.net.au (203.59.6.199)

Nancy

Subject: being here

Donna: Yes, I still read here regularly but don't post until I have something that I really want to say - so perhaps it's a minor form of GB-itsis - not addicted to posting but addicted to reading. It was nice to be acknowleged by you for simply being here, even if what I said was nothing much:)

The GB is mostly worth reading even when it gets ridiculous; to me it feels like a microcosm of humanity, 2003 style. I'd like to say that even though we've just been through another "Feud" discussion with all manner of people saying "oh no, not again" but joining in anyway, I much prefer a long winded rehash of the old subjects than a complete derth of posts, as was the case a few weeks ago.

With no disrespect to anyone posting now, I also miss some of the old posters, and believe that the GB has become a less friendly place than it used to be 3 years ago. If this "place" had been like this when I started delving tentatively into it, I don't think I'd have stuck around long. I'm a pacifist at heart, and have enough recalcitrant workmates and relatives to prevent me looking for arguments here in my recreation time. I can tell from the posts of other women who've drawn unfriendly fire that it isn't an enjoyable experience. I find it interesting that the ratio of men to women in here is so skewed - is that just because in general women didn't get turned onto The Band? If that's the case, then the ladies in the GB should be treated like precious china - rare and exotic - there ain't many of us!!

Thanks also to Joe Lore for his latest pics - you're very lucky to be able to go to so many BB shows, Joe.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 12:56:36 CEST 2003 from mcha-ag053.taconic.net (205.231.148.244)

Lil

I guess it just goes to show that anything beloved.. stays that way. Imperfections and all.

Have a good day everyone.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 12:37:28 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-012.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.12)

Peter Viney

Vinyl-to-CD transfer. I don’t know how it goes into a computer, but I use a proper CD-Audio Recorder connected into the hi-fi, and this is great at transferring cassette and vinyl to CD. You have to use CD-Audio discs of course. I assume these machines are designed partly for this and have a suitable converter for analog input. I’ve got several CDRs burned from discs which are not yet on CD, and they do seem to have a certain quality of the LP when burned (the scratches and hiss might help!). Of course different compression would have been used for the LP and it is that compressed signal you’re copying. But as it’s the sound you remember and love you may well prefer it to the CD. I’m sure you can’t copy any of those immeasurable analogue qualities of LP, but you can copy the compressed mix. I often play Steve Miller’s Recall The Beginning which is a personal LP to CD transfer and it sounds great. Time wise, you have to be there to index the CDs by hand between tracks, so you can't just burn it in the background and index at a later time, but why bother to burn it unless you want to listen to it?

Entered at Thu Jun 5 08:27:23 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Jamie

Todd: From what I've come across, unless the analog-to-digital transfer you attempt is of the highest quality, it is hopeless. Be weary about losing generations of quality whenever you transfer anything - video or audio - involving analog. A transfer may lose you some "direct" sound and completely take away from the original recording.

However, rough audio quality leads me to my next point. I guess the point I bring up is a bit psychological. For me, to put on a record (in this case meaning a vinal) that I am aware was purchased by my father the day it was released gives me a feeling that no compact disc could ever provide. Sure the brown album CD sounds great, but I guess this is the point me and others are making: The brown album was never about high tech recording. The older it sounds, the more it works. The fact that the brown album I own is almost 34 years old to me is quite sexy. I'm a stickler for giving great music great attention (would I be here if I wasn't?), and I treasure the listening experience as much as anyone else I know.

I guess I just can't get enough of the vinals!

Entered at Thu Jun 5 08:18:09 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Donna

Subject: Calvin - The Real Truth on writing credits!

Calvin: Who are you kidding? It was "Me" who wrote all the songs the Band recorded! Yes, you are accurate about the "Feud" being a cover up! Now that you decided to take credit for my musical genius, I just may have to take this to court. I'll have my lawyer contact your lawyer. And how did you find out about Garth, being "Deep Throat?" :)

The Band, was made up of 5 wonderful, and extremeley talented musicians, each and everyone of them! This also includes the re-unitied Band!

The GB poster's are very passionate fans, and of course we feel very strongly about the rights or wrongs that might have been done. IMO, leave the personal feelings and disagreements between those involved to them to work out or not to work out. Spewing anger in this guestbook will not change anything. Hurtful words towards one another, will serve no purpose. We all have our own personal views, although angry words about Levon or Robbie in this guestbook, will not resolve these issue's. We can find peace within ourselves by going to the show's, or buying their cd's, or passing on their legacy, and respecting each and every memeber of The Band. In the wise words of Nancy Wilson (Heart), "It's all about the Music". The magic of the music The Band shared, was a gift to us, let's repay them by respecting Levon, Rick, Robbie, Richard, and Garth, for the love they gave to each and everyone of their fans? For example, the kind of love when you experience holding your baby, while hearing a beautiful song being played, taking your child in your arms, while their head rest upon your shoulder's and you slowly dance, holding their tiny fingers in your hand, and feeling that love that the music brought you to that special loving place in your heart, that unconditional love, and at that moment in time when your hearts memory will never forget.

Nancy: It was so nice seeing you post again! I miss many of the old time posters! Laura Holt-(Dylan Girl), Erin, Jenny, Calm, Nasty Ned, Frankie Ahart, Bashful Bill, Dave The Drummer, Rick S. Ruby, Ruby-Red, and Jan. Please come back and post in here soon? You are all missed. A special thanks to Jan for all his hard work and patience!

Let's agree to disagree, but with mature respect for each and everyone's opinions? Email me at-JBMDirect at aol dot com.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 07:36:15 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Y'know what Al - I meant to comment on your report on Paulie's hometown gig. I enjoyed your post but I kinda got caught up "tryin' to shovel smoke with a pitchfork in the wind" in here for a short spell. It's all good now.

Speaking of The Beatles - check out the new "Ringorama" CD. You'll be surprised at the sound Ringo has going on it. Ringo is so vibrant and full of energy nowdays. Quitting booze really served him well..........It puts a smile on this fans (and drummers) face to see Levon and Ringo still pounding those skins with conviction in thier early 60's.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 07:26:21 CEST 2003 from ptnm-sh6-port160.snet.net (204.60.19.160)

Todd Atkinson

Subject: Burning Vinyl to CD

David Powell's post on the Brown album and Jamie's post touched on a question that I have had for some time.

When you burn a CD from a vinyl LP, do you retain the sound qualities that are inherent in vinyl/analog, or does the process of converting it to CD/digital negate those properties? In other words, do you end up with a second generation CD from a quality perspective, or do you gain something by including the analog step in between? From David Powell's post, it seems that he feels that the analog step adds something that carries through to the CD. I'd like to believe that, as I have many LP's that I'd like to convert to CD. I may even buy a new turntable before I start the process, but before I do, I'd like to know if it makes a difference.

I'm trying to avoid the whole analog vs. digital debate, and going forward with the idea that certain music, sounds more appropriate on vinyl / analog. I have all of the remastered Band albums on CD, but there's just something special about listening to my old vinyl LP of Music From Big Pink. If that transfers well to CD using the vinyl as the source with a good quality turntable, then I'm going to go for it. I would just like to know in advance if I'll be wasting my time.

Thanks in advance for any info people may have from either a technical or aesthetic viewpoint.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 06:19:44 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Jamie

Subject: Oh, this darn guestbook!

When I first started checking this GB, I was extremely refreshed to find out that others share the same experiences with me (Caledonia Misson). A while ago, I started to sense a little bitterness (Where do we go from Here?). All of you great posters who I have enjoyed reading have gotten a tad bit pretentious in your posts (Rags & Bones). And now things have gotten completely out of hand (Right as Rain). Am I going nuts here?

Other topics: First, 'Time to Kill' should've been the opener...agree/disagree? Second, I was born in '81...I feel that if it was recorded before then, it sounds better on vinal. Listening to "the Brown Album" on compact disc feels wrong even to me.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 06:14:54 CEST 2003 from cpe-65-25-199-100.mn.rr.com (65.25.199.100)

Dave Z

Serge: I wonder what effect she had on book sales... I got so excited reading your and Peter's posts I just Barned & Nobled a Penderecki CD online... btw, didn't Marilyn go home afterwards... put the book on her night stand, and stretch out naked on a red satin sheet to pose for a picture while listening to Penderecki... damn, it's my birthday, I shoulda ordered the book too and got free shipping...

Entered at Thu Jun 5 05:31:40 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

And their damn good books too Curtis! I especially like the part where Pat, dressed to the teeth in authenic Civil War combat gear, his musket and bag in hand, charged like hell up over that hill only to slip on an empty McDonald's Big Mac container and slide down the other side full throttle right into a side-parked Land Rover. He was okay tho. Went to Dunkin' Donuts afterwards and had a quart of that famous Dunkin' Donuts coffee and a dozen or so of those "Bear Claw" things. I love you Pat..you're so damned sweet .... and "don't forget the milk"

"Come out of the meadows and plantations
Come away from the shores down by the sea
Join under the flag
With your musket and your bag
We gotta break ties wih the North to be free"

Thank you Helena :)

Entered at Thu Jun 5 05:18:23 CEST 2003 from usr269-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk (62.30.233.25)

Dave G.

Subject: Roz...."Bordon`s Mallo Cup....Yummy!"

Hey Roz! Picture the scene if you will;
I had just walked through the front door after another enjoyable shopping trip (not!)..My stomach was rumbling like the L.A. earthquake!..and I was too tired to make it into the kitchen, let alone making it to the oven!.

So I decided to sit down at my computer, with a crappy bag of crisps (potato chips!..hehe!) and check out the signings in the guestbook.
I eventually came to your text, where I came upon your mouth watering description of the "Bordon`s Mallo Cup".
Needless to say, I wasn`t on the computer very long..and was soon looking through shopping bags in the search of sweet delights!..hehe!.

My girlfriend usually cooks me fantastic meals...but she was nowhere to be seen on this particular afternoon.
Too be honest, I`m not that handy in the kitchen anyway, but I`ve recently tried to be more aquainted..with the art of cooking. I just couldn`t be bothered on this particular day. Does the "American" man have a better reputation in the kitchen?. The cooking`s ok, It`s the washing up after,that I hate!..hehe!. I remember reading Levon`s book and thinking Man!..I`ve had the easy life.

Don`t get me wrong, I`m not lazy...I enjoy walking..bike riding..swimming..and I pull my weight round the house, it`s just that damn Kitchen!..hehe!.
I`ve got a horrible feeling your gonna tell me your a great cook..and give me recipes galore!.

By the way, I love the way you write..it`s like reading an extract from "Little House on the Prarie"..or "The Waltons" that good old "American" feel good factor..I hope you take this as a compliment, because that is what it`s meant to be. My knowledge of words is not that great, so forgive some of my dialogue..if you will.

Cheers, for all the Bluegrass connections..I`ve made a note of all and will duly investigate.
Some of those Lyrics you submitted were brilliant!..I really enjoyed scrolling through.
I`ve never spoken to a "Mandolin" player before..Is it hard to play?. I myself play guitar, a bit of Piano..and that`s about it..the music I write myself is a mixture of Blues and Country..and some modern sounds.

My music is very simplistic I guess, I hate the loud guitar sound..and much prefer the cleaner tone as used by Robbie in "The Band" days. I record all my material onto my four track (drum tracks or programmed drum tracks are used from my keyboard)..I would prefer proper drums to accompany my songs, but I can`t play em.
I`m just a one person bedroom recorder..like so many other people are. I have tried to meet other musicians, to expand the situation..but due to one reason or another, it hasn`t worked out. I`ve done my own version of a few Band songs in the past such as "Daniel and the Sacred Harp"..."Up on Cripple Creek" .."Evangiline" and other songs such as "Helpless" by Neil Young..and Dylans "Nobody cept`you" and "Forever Young"./b However, I prefer to write my own stuff..the cover versions were mainly for friends and family.

Do you write and perform your material just for yourself?. You mentioned that you play a few times a year with your Band at venues including "Firehalls"..What are these?
Are they "fire stations"..or have I been mislead by the obvious wording in the name?..hehe!. Can you play Harp?..This is one instrument I would love to be able to play, especially in the "Blues" manner. I can do a bit of the Dylan thing..but basically I`m crap!
The thing is I really prefer the old type Harp sound as opposed to the "New"..more amplified sound.
I love the Harp that Neil Young plays during the intro to "Helpless" on TLW..that makes my hair stand up, everytime I hear that!..It makes me think of the last scene in "Thunder bolt and Lightfoot"..when Jeff Bridges says "I feel like a Hero man!.."...or I remember my wonderful Nan..who is no longer with me.
It`s fu*king amazing what a few notes of music can do and the thought`s they can evoke.
Have you ever heard of "Iris Dement" Roz?..If so what`s your opinion on her?, I`ve got her first two album`s and I love the tracks "Sweet is the Melody" and "Our Town".
Hey Roz!..If you want some of that English honeycomb..I`m your man!..hehe!..It`s about 40p a quarter over here, not sure what that is in U.S..about 20 cents or something?.
Don`t worry I`ll send you a load over for nothing, if you would send me one..just one!.."Bardons mallow cup"..hehe! Speak to you soon, Dave.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 04:46:57 CEST 2003 from dialup-67.73.145.91.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.73.145.91)

Pat Brennan

I hope you tell the coach to start Pennington. Vinny's through. BTW, you also lost your cool when you completely misunderstood one of my posts. But it seems you also think I wrote a "poorly written and researched" book about the Band, not "subjective" enough for your tastes, so maybe you're just a bit confused. I'm sure we can clear up all these misunderstandings.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 04:14:25 CEST 2003 from 24-161-21-18.hvc.rr.com (24.161.21.18)

Lars

Subject: The Band

PETER & J.TULLFAN- The idea of the '90s Band covering a Richard Manuel song was probably not an option, since there was nobody left who could DO a Richard song. Rick's range wasn't what it used to be (witness his performance at Woodstock '94) and Randy, as good as he is, can't sing like Richard. When Eppard was playing with the Band during Rick's "stay" in Japan, he was probably the one who could have pulled off something like that (IMO).

One thing to remember is that Rick once said the 90s Band "would always have senior members (himself, Levon, and Garth) and junior members (Bell, Weider, and Ciarlante)." I don't think these junior members were involved in a lot of the important decisions (I could be wrong) and it was up to Levon, Rick, Butch, and Calvin to work up a setlist for a show. Or a song for an album.

Hey Curtis, now I know who you are, you sly one, you. Number 32 for the Jets, you are my favorite running back. Are they going with that Pennington kid at QB this year or are they going to give Vinny one last chance? Any inside stuff you could pass along would be appreciated (hey, I'm just yanking your chain Curtis, I'm sure you're a fine lawyer).

I saw a white Saab being towed on the NYS Thruway last week. Butch, I hope that wasn't yours. But some of those trips from Kentucky ("Fire Down Below" production with Levon playing a preacher) to northern Vermont (for a gig) were done in record breaking time. Poor thing probably got worn out....(your car).

Entered at Thu Jun 5 04:01:59 CEST 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp190480.sympatico.ca (64.229.3.131)

brown eyed girl

Kalervo: Since you like Hawaiian music....Check out O-Shen from Papua, New Guinea....

Entered at Thu Jun 5 03:49:09 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

roz

I'll try to notice that next time I scroll by one of your posts. .... 0.2%

Entered at Thu Jun 5 03:42:40 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

Did you know: During the making of "There's No Business Like Show Business" Marilyn insisted upon wearing "black" underpants to give the impression that she was wearing "no" underpants during the musical dance numbers? But that Ethel Merman sure could sing !

Has anyone here see the movie "Insignificance" It was wonderful except for the dialogue between the two guys under the subway grate who's job it was to turn the fan switch on and off waiting for Marilyn to finally get her lines right. It took two days or somethng like that. Gary Busey played "Joltin' Joe" in that film. One of the signs of a good actor is a guy who instinctively knows when he's wrong for the part and plays the part accordingly.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 03:26:47 CEST 2003 from ny-amherst13a-117.buf.adelphia.net (68.69.83.117)

Joe & Beth

Subject: Happy Belated Birthday!

Happy Birthday Levon! (It's been too long!) Best to you and hope to see you soon. Love, Joe & Beth

Entered at Thu Jun 5 02:59:52 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

JTull Fan

Subject: Viney/Godfrey

Haven't checked in too much this trip, but wanted to mention I am 2 doors down from the infamous Brill building, where Levon and Robbie 'got (their) ass kicked', to quote LEvon in the Last Waltz. Godfrey: interesting mention you gave on Confederate General Helm. I've always wondered about that myself but never gotten an anser out here. Viney: I think the '90's Band covering a Richard song like you mentioned would have been a nice touch, no different than them covering a Robbie song. In either case, neither of them were there at the time. Could they have pulled it off credibly? I'm not sure if it would really have mattered as much as the effort would have counted.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 02:55:01 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Hey everybody. I noticed that frequently when I write a reply to someone, I might start out the post or paragraph with the reply. And then I might finish what I have to say to that person, switch the subject either by a mile or a millimeter, and never indicate that I am now directing my remarks to everyone in general. This could cause for some confusion, misunderstandings, etc. I will try to get it right in the future.

Yes Curtis, you have suffered the fate that we hall have, you have contracted "Band guestbookitis". At this point in time modern music has no known cure for this dreadful disease. Trips to see Garth solo shows, anything with Levon, and publicity appearances by RR (none of which I have attended) only seem to cause widespread outbreaks of "guestbookitis" .

Entered at Thu Jun 5 02:47:55 CEST 2003 from 80-194-171-31.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (80.194.171.31)

Al Edge

This Gb has gone bananas - first Richard's praising my writing and then Serge is all over PV like a friggin rash - it's enough to make a guy distinctly uneasy :-o)

Also I posted twice about The Beatles and Sam never blinked an eyelid

What goes?

Enjoyed reading all those fascinating points by Jeff, PB, PV, DP and sadavid too about the first two albums. Not sure if all that leisure and/or concentrated time up in them there woods supports or detracts from the possibility of a 'communal' writing concept. One thing's for sure though. That must have been one unbelievable time.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 02:34:33 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Curtis Blue

Subject: NOT MUCH TIME

Now I know I am hooked, I raced back to my office so I could read and write a quick post here, I have an 8 0'clock meeting tonight and I know I will be late, is this what happens?

Jeff- I did misunderstand your post, although I don't think I went into "The outer Limits".. In a pointed debate the first thing your taught is never ever lose your cool. When I saw you say "Buddy boy" I being an African-American lost my cool. Being called "Boy" of any kind has always been a weakness of mine. Of course, you had no way of knowing this and once my rational came back, I was fine. If you will recall the other time I lost my cool was with Mr. Pikes comments about the south being built on the backs of the slaves. African-American's hate nothing more than when white liberals take their cause out of some sense of guilt or God knows what, I found that to be very foolish.

As for what I do, its not important here, I am also not talking out of school. Special knowledge? We will have to see I guess. There is no convincing Mr. Viney, I have tried and tried to coax him over to at least acknowledge that there is perhaps another point of view. I don't think he really reads other posts, other than his own of course. I also think perhaps Mr. Viney and Mr. Serge should get a room to discuss their fascination with Marylin Monroe. Are they starting a porn site here? (Please, this is only a joke, humor appears to be in short supply here.)

Mr. Brennan- I have to admit I am really confused by your last couple of posts. Did you or did you not write the book? Please on my account now deny you were the author of that fine work. I did say it was a fun read. You did not think it was Shakespheare did you? It was more interesting than any of Mr. Viney's extremely well written works.So tell me the truth Mr. Brennan. I will get back to you on our other discussion maybe tomorrow morning.

Judge Judy- Is that an attempt at being funny? Come clean your toilets? Well it was, that was a good one. You should not be so angry all the time, it will shorten your lifespan. Eat plenty of coconut and have a good time, just my free advice.

Now I am really late and in trouble, its all everyones fault

Entered at Thu Jun 5 00:39:02 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Fallen Angel

WAY TO GO, BONES!!! :)

Take care and be well

Entered at Thu Jun 5 00:21:23 CEST 2003 from (206.186.13.112)

Serge

Viney, I forgot..her lipstick was a dark shade of a saturday night pink.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 00:18:33 CEST 2003 from (206.186.13.112)

Serge

Yeah, as she walked over this sidewalk vent, her full white skirt started to go over her knees. Dropping the Dostoevsky book, she let go of a squeal and caught the front of the billowing skirt, but revealed beautiful shapely legs, and a hint of a black garter against the milky white skin of her thigh.

Your turn...This is more fun than who did what to whom in the Band saga. Just listen to the bloody music...never mind all the crap that doesn't concern anyone here.

Entered at Thu Jun 5 00:02:17 CEST 2003 from ip68-10-78-33.hr.hr.cox.net (68.10.78.33)

Joy

Subject: Commercial (Music) Break

Treasure Records continues to update weekly. They've put up 2 more songs from the upcoming Dixie Hummingbirds album with Levon and Garth and others participating. They also have a new video clip from the recording sessions available for download.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Joy

Entered at Wed Jun 4 23:42:22 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-004.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.4)

Peter Viney

90s Band – I don’t actually object to Stuff You Gotta Watch. It’s just that when they were doing such cheerful bar band stuff they were inferior to the 70s Band. When they had material as good as Robbie’s songs – i.e. Atlantic City, Blind Willie McTell, Don’t Wait – they were right up there with the 70s incarnation. This shows the true value of great songwriters, Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan and Kevin Doherty (and Calvin, it seems). Willie & The Hand Jive was OK as a live thing, though Rick looked bored shitless doing it. Having seen the Johnny Otis Show and The Flying Burrito Bros perform the same song far better, I do wonder why they bothered. The Burritos also beat them hands down on Ain’t That a Lot of Love.

My point was that Stuff You Gotta Watch, Willie & The Hand Jive et al (al, not Al who is irreplaceable) would not have got them where they got in 1968 / 69. I can’t see any argument against that.

The other odd thing, is why didn’t the 90s Band ever attempt We Can Talk? They managed Chest Fever superbly with Randy’s help replacing Richard. It would have been a travesty to do Richard songs like Lonesome Suzie or Tears of Rage or Sleeping, but they could have done We Can Talk, perfectly well without him. Another great non-Robbie song for the repetoire.

Serge- I have the image of Marilyn Monroe with Doestevesky under her arm, that’s good, but you’ve missed the best bits. What was she wearing? Was there a vent in the sidewalk? What colour was her lipstick? Don’t start these pictures and leave them halfway.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 23:19:01 CEST 2003 from (206.186.13.112)

Serge

Dave Z, you're on the right track. I mentioned this before, a few years ago: R.R.'s interest in Krzysztof Penderecki, a Polish composer who experimented with sounds such as sawing wood, rustling paper, typewriters, knocking, hissing, screeching etc...was like Marilyn Monroe strutting around with a copy of Dostoevsky's "Brothers Karamazov" under her arm, for effect.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 22:53:14 CEST 2003 from xtreme-1-138.dyn.aci.on.ca (69.17.160.138)

RUDIMENT

Subject: Sadavid photo of Levon

Great photo it is a good example of Levon he was always aware of sound not looks. In the sixties he had a great sounding cymbal that had a big hole in it. He used on tunes like What I Say Ray Charles tune. I know a few drummers who cut holes in there new cymbles just to try and get his sound.That photo brought back some great memories Thanks Sadavid you made my day.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 22:42:31 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-228-189.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.228.189)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Wed Jun 4 22:38:01 CEST 2003 from adsl-66-72-193-242.dsl.clevoh.ameritech.net (66.72.193.242)

Calvin

I didnt want to go here, because nobody will believe me and itll come off as bitching. But I wrote all the songs the Band recorded, Robbie and Levon stole them from me and "The Feud" is just a cover-up to pull attention away from the truth.

And Garth was actually Deep Throat

Entered at Wed Jun 4 21:29:18 CEST 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Bones

They did not get compensated equally but that is not Robbie's fault. That is the nature of the business. The songwriter tends to make more because of royalties. ALL FIVE MEMBERS made more money than most of us will ever see.

I find it interesting that my last post asked the question of whether Levon was on the Letterman show Monday night because I heard David Letterman say, "Thanks Levon" at the end of the show. All these huge Levon fans completely disregarded my post and decided to continue bashing Robbie for everything under the sun. I would have thought some people would have been interested in the prospect of Levon being on TV. I guess it is only interesting if that bastard Letterman did not pay Levon properly.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 21:15:52 CEST 2003 from gpf-t198.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.198)

sadavid

Subject: Tools of the Bayou Folk Drummer (not that one, Witty)

Re: the discussion on wood rims, etc., check out Levon's kit in the linked photo. Obviously not chosen as a fashion statement.

By the way, caption indicates Roosevelt Stadium, Jersey City 1 August '73, but I have seen the same shot identified as Watkins Glen 28 July '73. I realize this matters to no one but obsessive compulsives.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 20:47:43 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Subject: brown vinyl

The LP version of "The Band" is the way to go. Even the gate-fold cover for the vinyl is better than the rinky dink CD booklet. In my opinion, the best pressing I've found is one with the lime green Capitol label and "RL" etched in the run-off area of the record. Those initials indicate that Robert Ludwig mastered that particular pressing, which has a greater dynamic range than some of the others I've heard. But don't get me wrong -- any LP version is preferable to any CD counterpart in my book.

In reading her honor's bill of particulars in the indictment of Levon Helm, I was relieved that she did not accuse him of corking his drum sticks (:-)

Thank you Paul Godfrey for posting that interesting information about Benjamin Hardin Helm. Sounds like the title of a Dylan song doesn't it.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 20:41:43 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-228-189.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.228.189)

Pat Brennan

We bemoan many things here, including Al Edge's desire that the moment had lasted longer. However, I think sometimes we fall into a trap thinking the Big Pink represented some kind of beginning. Big Pink is part of a larger story that had started quite a while before, some ephemeral point when the Hawks became The Band. I'm not sure when that was: sometime during the Dylan tour, sometime during the Basement tapes, maybe even during the recording of The Stones I Throw, I don't really know. But consider the ammount of music they produced from 67 to 71: the Basement Tapes, their own demos, and four albums. That's a ton of music. Then, beginning in 73 through 75: Moondog, Planet Waves, and NLSC. Is there any artist today who can claim a track record like that, who has delivered that ammount of amazing material in a similiar time span? I can't think of one.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 20:15:28 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Yes Pat, I agree - But when they do so while throwing in an insult, then manners go out the window now don't they? And I never was one to give a shit about what you think anyway. If you guys want me to go away, then just leave it alone and poof! I'm gone.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 20:11:13 CEST 2003 from ppp16.ac1.56k.execulink.com (209.239.5.16)

Paul Godfrey

Subject: Levon & Civil War

Historical Note: Page 475, line 17 LINCOLN by David Herbert Donald. This may add more relevence to TNTDODD: "Mary Lincoln willingly cooperated in promoting her husbands reelection. Her mental and physical health had improved, and she gained greater control over her emotions when she was oblliged to contrast her own problems with those of her youngest half sister, Emilie Todd Helm, whose husband, Confederate General Benjamin Hardin Helm, was killed at Chickamauga."

Entered at Wed Jun 4 20:04:51 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Subject: The Band

David Powell = I enjoyed your story about listening to the "vinyl" version of Brown. It made me want to give the record a spin. Maybe I will.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 19:48:28 CEST 2003 from gpf-t199.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.199)

sadavid

rosalind's mention of Ian Tyson reminded me of Ian & Sylvia's cover of "Get Up Jake" which I think I still have on a cassette dub of a greatest hits LP from decades back. Probably got it from my bro, a major Tyson-head, even wears cowboy boots. Ian (& Sylvia?) had a weekly TV show in Canada way back (70s?), with their house band "Great Speckled Bird" and musical guests. The theme tune was Ian's "Some Kind of Fool" which is a terrific song and not very far from Band territory. One line reminds me of Robbie talking to Scorsese in TLW: "There's not many wise men leading this life."

I'm not sure if Tyson(s) covered any other Band stuff (or vice versa After the Waltz - would have been a good fit).

Al Edge's question is a good one - what is it that made for such exceptionality? I'd suggest it has something to do with "time to kill" - regular income, leisure to sit still and think in an inspiring environment (scenically and artistically). More, perhaps, to do with the synergy of like-minded, fertile and supportive mates. It's almost conventional wisdom that Bob Dylan gave 'em a leg up and I wouldn't be surprised if his example and support were the critical catalyst. By this time they knew who he was, of course, and it must have been an object lesson to see that there was no magic to it - you just sit down at the typewriter and make a few puns, then take the paper over to Richard at the piano . . . .

Entered at Wed Jun 4 19:49:09 CEST 2003 from on-tor-blr-a58-01-1007.look.ca (216.154.3.245)

Wittgenstein

Subject: Something Else Again

Well, thanks to this site formerly demanding we post our email addresses, I have been inundated with spam that promises to increase my member to Levonistic proportions. Just want to tell everyone that I've invested heavily in this stuff (out of curiosity you understand, not that I actually needed it) and man! Wow!

I read today that Barry Manilow broke his nose. Apparently he was just following it around the corner when it ran smack into a telephone booth. The lady inside it (the booth) thought she was being molested. That very same woman can be traced to Robbie Robertson within six degrees of separation!

Party at my house tonight. Everyone lighten up.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 19:36:26 CEST 2003 from 1cust6.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.6)

Judge Judy

Subject: The Endless Feud

In case there are any of you who don't realize why the feud comes up here so often it comes down to just 5 letters - L-E-V-O-N. (Pardon me if you didn't know it and were all set to hazard a guess.) Which Band member over the years has been constantly complaining about Robbie ripping him off? (Don't tax your brain - same answer as above.) As recently as that very recent article about the Last Hombres Levon has seen fit to knock Robbie and characterize him as a crook. Who's recently re-published book contains an new introduction blaming Robbie for the premature death of another Band member? (Yes, same answer - I think you're getting the hang of it by now!) Who didn't show up at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction because Robbie was in attendance? (This should really be a no-brainer for everyone.) I could go on and on as should be quite obvious by now. So those of you who are complaining about the feud topic coming up so often open your eyes and see who is fueling it relentlessly - L-E-V-0-N. And then complain to H-I-M!

And hey, don't be too hard on Curtis! He's the best damn toilet cleaner we've had at this courthouse in a very long time! (But Mr. Blue - PLEASE knock a little louder before you enter the Ladies Room from now on! Thanks.)

Entered at Wed Jun 4 19:30:47 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-228-189.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.228.189)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Wed Jun 4 19:21:38 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

I tried Sam, really I tried. You just can't leave it alone, can you? Once again throwing in your little sucker punch, then jumping away from it like you didn't do anything. Did you learn that from your friend Robbie? If you have a problem with Richard then go after Richard, but leave me out of your hate. I'm getting very tired of being sucked into it. I think you must enjoy pain actually. I am not here to do people favors or to join popularity contests. And as far as contests go, I don't think you win any either my doltish little friend. Nobody takes you seriously either. You sound more like a little kid trying way too hard to hang out with the big ones in my opinion. And no, I am not interested in emailing you. What I am going to do is cough up that phlegm that I call Bayou Sam and be done with it. Now go get me a beer will ya, and hurry it up.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 19:15:12 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Fallen Angel

Daniel Lanois sent an e-mail stating he is going to be at the Henry Fonda Theatre in Los Angeles with "special guests".

Could Robbie Robertson be planning to make an appearance and play with his friend?

Take care and be well

Entered at Wed Jun 4 18:49:09 CEST 2003 from ool-4352ed70.dyn.optonline.net (67.82.237.112)

Brien Sz

Entered at Wed Jun 4 18:36:47 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Here is what I want to say. It is very difficult to be musical and a businessman simultaneously. And being a businessman is a draining thing. Especially when everyone is trying to rob you, bend you over, stomp on you, hit you on the back of the head with a back of quarters. Before they rip the meat from your carcass and start sucking on your bones. Which almost approaches the level at which the music business operates.

Business and musicality are different realms. It is not impossible to do both, but i would say musical genius and business are worlds apart. Something is going to suffer. Add fun (meaning of fun being a wide open field here, folks) into the equation and now things get real tricky. Want to say someone has to sacrifice something, say it, but do not think any of this to be an easy task, decision, or accomplishment.

this is not to support RR or the other guys. It is to point out that noone should be praised or blamed for being or not being a businessman. We are talking about musicians.

Art and business are worlds apart. In ancient times , artists of all ilk that were fortunate to get heard, might of gotten lucky and received patronage from a aristocrat. How many unknown geniuses has this world witnessed throughout history. All the unknowns back then and now.

Believe me, there are seriously talented people all over the place who do not get heard. They do noy know how to get heard. Noone does it for them. Where does the money come from. The Band came along at atime when there was money to get people heard. RR did not NECESSARILY accomplish that for them. Was he more business like, of course. Is he behaving more like a businessman today , or more like a artist? You tell me.

But let us not blame anyone for not being businesslike. Truth is, it has little to do with being musical. Unfortunately self interest requires the ability to sit back, remove yourself from the musical world, learn business and protect your ass. Hard to do, necessary, hey, you might even get some songs or musical inspiration from the experience. But it is not an easy thing, and back in 67, 68, 69, it was about as foriegn a concept as heiroglyphics to these guys.

Business or music. You choose. Aside from economic factors entering into the picture, it is a choice. Therein lies the rub.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 18:26:35 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

A quote from the Carly Simon chapter in "Superwoman of Rock", a 1978 paperback: "She cut a single for Grossman, 'Baby Let Me Follow You Down', in 1966. Dylan himself got involved; he rewrote the lyrics to fit Carly's style. At a Woodstock recording session, with the full weight of some of Rock's heavies - The Band, Robbie Robertson, Al Kooper, Mike Bloomfield, and Richie Havens singing background - it was done, fast, sloppy, and never to be released." I think the lineup differs from both the '72(?) and the '82(?) "Rolling Stone" articles discussed here previously.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 18:14:10 CEST 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1a-159.hhe.adelphia.net (68.168.201.159)

Amanda

If you don't mind, would you send me an email? johnson5 at adelphia dot net.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 17:58:38 CEST 2003 from jcsnwyqcortr1-fe0-0-171.hicap.wyoming.net (216.67.188.171)

jhwygirl

he's coming here to Jackson Hole! heard a rumor last week, from a parks and rec guy who was working on it, and today it was in the paper, and on a few websites. Guess I need to go work on him now for a back stage pass ;-)

Pack up your bags for July 15th folks, and throw in a tour of Yellowstone with it!

Entered at Wed Jun 4 17:57:58 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-228-189.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.228.189)

Pat Brennan

Ed Voci, as a fan of Tiny Town you may be interested to know that Pat McLaughlin will be playing at Fitzgeralds Great American Music Festival on July 3.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 17:56:18 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Tood: a long time ago, someone, I do not remeber who, and Butch, had a big hassle over taking pics or videos at a show. I think it was a Blues Cruise, Levon, Hubert, Jimmy, Johnasen, Merrit, doing the Wolf tribute thing. I just remember it being the cause of a guestbook battle. I think Amanda got you confused with that era.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 17:43:55 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Subject: the music

I try to keep things as good-natured as I can when I post in the GB. On occasion, I have been provoked, but that's another lesson learned. When I disagree with someone else, I respect their opinion and don't feel compelled to insult them for holding those views. I ain't aiming to get into a pissing contest with anyone, as we say down South. I'm somehow reminded of Dan Ackroyd's famous line from that "Point-Counterpoint" skit on Saturday Night Live: "Jane, you ignorant slut!" That's not my idea of a good way to make a point in the GB. After all, it's all about the music isn't it?

Well, on the subject of music -- I certainly agree with Al Edge regarding the "exceptionalism" of the first two Band albums. Like Pat Brennan & others, however, I do have a certain fondness for "Stage Fright" also. Recently, I've been comparing different LP pressings of "Music From Big Pink" & "the brown album", and, in this context, I've been listening closely to a lot of little things that distinguish the recordings. Even after all these years, these all so familiar songs can still yield "buried treasures" aplenty.

On my train commute to work this morning, I listened to a CD-R copy of "The Band" that I burned from an early Capitol LP pressing. I have to say that I prefer this copy over any of the "official" CD versions. There's something about that extra analogue step in the conversion to digital that adds a warm richness to the sound.

Just a couple of things about "the brown album" that I enjoy -- My favorite Robbie Robertson solo, on "Unfaithful Servant". He plays it on the acoustic guitar, requiring the listener to "lean in" & concentrate, as he trills the notes like he was playing a mandolin. Listening to Levon play electric rhythm guitar on "Jemima Surrender". The exquisite beauty of "Rockin' Chair" framed by all those vocals & instruments with no drums. The way the album closes with the great 1-2-3 punch of "Jawbone", "Unfaithful Servant" and "King Harvest (Has Surely Come)". Just as "I Shall Be Released" was an ideal way to end "Music From Big Pink", the magnificent "King Harvest..." brings "The Band" to a close with a powerful tone. Bookended with the opening of "Across The Great Divide", this is an album that grabs you & holds you with a strong grip until the very end where the needle hits the run-off grooves.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 17:43:36 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Richard, sweetheart - perfect time for you to drop in. It must be my lucky day.

I would expect that when Robbie (or anyone) goes from bringing a song to Levon, Richard, Rick, and Garth - to bringing it to a different group of musicians, it's sure as heck going to have a different sound. Hell, just removing Garth from a recording session will change the song a ton. So to say RR's solo stuff sounds removed from The Band sound makes sense to me. Although I could easlily see The Band doing stuff like "Broken Arrow", or "Somewhere Down The Crazy River".......I think that on songs like "Atlantic City", The Band proved that they could get that "Bandish" sound when given the right song. The only thing missing was Richard's great voice.

Dale = do me a favor - no, do everyone else here a favor - if you feel the need to take Richard's suggestion and "get me", could you do it via e-mail? Only if you really have to.

wipeout1960 (at) yahoo.com

Entered at Wed Jun 4 17:26:15 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-228-189.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.228.189)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Wed Jun 4 17:12:54 CEST 2003 from (61.240.164.134)

Richard

Subject: Don't Ya Tell Henry

Question: Can somebody please tell me if the Band songs on ‘Basement Tapes’ were written and / or recorded before ‘Pink’ or between ‘Pink’ and ‘Brown’. The thing that makes me think they're possibly post-'Pink' is the energy level. Very high. I think we’re all in agreement that they were not, in fact, recorded during the same sessions as Dylan’s songs. Forgive me if the answer is obvious, but I have no liner notes with me.

Al Edge: I actually took a few minutes to read a couple of your most recent posts. Hey, you’re a pretty good writer.

Dale: Go boy. You get that Bayou Sam...

Entered at Wed Jun 4 17:08:10 CEST 2003 from 58.232.252.64.snet.net (64.252.232.58)

Todd Atkinson

Entered at Wed Jun 4 17:02:36 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Good of Rosalind to mention Ian Tyson's excellent "Summer Wages" and its reference to the bars up an down Yonge Street. I've always thought that Tyson's other Yonge Street song, "Long Long Time To Get Old", is one of the most efficient uses of words to sketch a scene: Eagle flies tomorrow / Mosquito biting me today / Take a bus to Toronto / Highway 2 all the way / Take a walk down Yonge Street / Where good times are bought and sold / Remember this children / If the good lord's willin' / Live a long long time to get old. Of course I'm prejudiced, having grown up taking the bus along Highway 2 to Toronto, so's I could walk up and down Yonge.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 16:56:02 CEST 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1a-159.hhe.adelphia.net (68.168.201.159)

Amanda

Entered at Wed Jun 4 16:45:28 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

I did not say that something you said was unpalatable to me. I disagreed with something you said. There are things you have written that I agreed with, and things you have written that I have not agreed with. I have not commented on much.

The only reason I wrote that you do not strike me as a lawyer, is that you remarked that you will be in court the rest of the week. And really, nothing you wrote would indicate that you have a legal background. So I was curious what capacity you would be in court in. Now, it may not of read that way, but it is how I meant it. And you do not need to say why you are in court, if you are not joking about it, and I do not really need to know.

Something I will say is that anyone who in fact does have special knowledge of the subject, should not divulge it, or even hint at having that knowledge in public. It is bad taste, potentially harmful, and probably not appreciated by the participants. Wait till the dust has settled. And it has not yet.

Al Edge, I for one do hold Big Pink and The Brown Album in esteem equal to that reserved for works of art such as the Mona Lisa, Hamlet, Winchester Cathedral, etc. Not to say that I do not love Northern Lights and Stage Fright as well.

In accordance with views we share in common on the Feud, I think the issues behind the feud do bear some connection to the quality of the songs. I am not going to delve further than that on the Feud issues now. What I would like to point out is the uniqueness of those two albums from a different angle. Compare the Band's first two offerings to the first and second of any other band's. It is going to be difficult to find other's equally as strong, unique, or milestone setting. Nobody else started ou the way the Band did. Defying type, tone, and lyrical and musical quality of the time. Not the Dead, Allmans, Beatles, Led Zeppelin, or The Stones. Now this might cause some other posters to use this defense of the Robertson position, that the material weakened because Robbie had no cooperation. Imagine Robbie's frustration with these guys, etc.... I would turn around and say, well, you made my case on that point, without the same involvement of the others, everything dropped a level.

Again,I do love the other albums. And I am not going far into the Feud anymore. MY opinions are more complex than anyone needs to know, and I am getting kind of bored with this. I wish all Band members the best. Define Band members any way you like.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 16:41:12 CEST 2003 from va-spotsy-cuda1-c5b-95.frbgva.adelphia.net (68.65.37.95)

Charlie Young

Subject: The Subdudes

I guess I'm so sick of all the friggin' rain we've had down here in old Virginny for the last month that I stuck the SUN on the beginning of the Subdudes'name on my last post. I guess that is another advantage of a group name like "The Band"--it's easy to spell even after a late night of great live music...

Entered at Wed Jun 4 16:37:13 CEST 2003 from va-spotsy-cuda1-c5b-95.frbgva.adelphia.net (68.65.37.95)

Charlie Young

Subject: The Sundudes & "El Condor Pasa"

Ed: the Subdudes are back using their original name now, though there are rumors that their former bass player may pursue legal action to force them back into calling themselves "The Dudes." I saw that farewell tour you mentioned as well, but they sound MUCH better in their new incarnation.

Empty Now: I think that line from "El Condor Pasa" is actually "I'd rather be a forest than a TREE." I like the environmental message of your interpretation, though. That could work as a rainforest preservation theme song.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 16:36:43 CEST 2003 from 58.232.252.64.snet.net (64.252.232.58)

Todd Atkinson

Subject: Photos

Amanda: Was that meant for me? The date on the photos that were just posted is June 1, 2003. I'm not "fretting" about taking photos, and I'm not trying to "agitate" anyone. I mean that sincerely. I've seen the Barnburners six times in the past two years, and I would like to bring my father, who is a huge jazz and blues music fan, to a show as a Father's day gift. I just felt like I had missed my opportunity that's all. If that show was a year ago, then I apologize for misunderstanding.

By the way, I'm a huge Levon fan. I met him once in 1987 and he was very generous with his time.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 16:17:04 CEST 2003 from (193.10.71.3)

Helena Ribbing

Subject: Rosalind on Robbie

Rosalind: I couldn´t agree with you more. Thank you for clearing it out. //Helena

Entered at Wed Jun 4 15:22:04 CEST 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1a-159.hhe.adelphia.net (68.168.201.159)

Amanda

Give the people what they want..."Stuff You Gotta Watch", "Willie & The Hand Jive", "Crazy Mama"...earn money...pay bills...buy something nice for the wife...send kids to college. All reasons to perform certain songs for a musician that makes his/her living in front of an audience. I wonder how many musicians, who earn their keep by performing, small time/big time, whether it's NYC or Blowing Rock, NC, are always playing, 100% of the time, everything that is closest to their heart? The guys/gals that do have that choice...I hope they realize how truly fortunate they are and that they always remember and treasure the ones that don't have that luxury.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 15:09:51 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Curtis Blue

Subject: working

I don't have a lot of time here, I am late as it is. I have to go sweep the courthouse and swab the toilets before the Judge gets in.

Sam- I always respect and listen and learn from everyone I meet, unlike some here that know all, I won't name name's, you know who you are.

Mr. Brennan- I don't have time right now to go into your hear say posts at this time, I will be back on Friday late, I will post then. About your book, like I said it as a fun read, but you wrote it as a fan, no objectivity. Please don't take my criticism to heart, I have no real expertise in being a litarary critic. I do read a lot and found parts of it to be alittle tough to get through.

Jeff, your right I am just a lowly clerk if that makes what I say anymore palatable to you.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 15:09:04 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

Entered at Wed Jun 4 15:00:25 CEST 2003 from 116.232.252.64.snet.net (64.252.232.116)

Todd Atkinson

Subject: Secret Show?

Nice photos of Levon with Hubert Sumlin on the What's new page. I'm sorry that I missed it. Did anyone else know about this show ahead of time, and if so how did you find out? I'd like to take my father to see Levon play, but it doen't seem like there have been many shows in the area lately. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 14:34:20 CEST 2003 from citrix1.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.5)

John Cass

Subject: song writing

Just my opinion but Robbie's solo stuff dosen't really make me want to run out and buy all his albums... I own most of his stuff (from bargin bins and used records) and listen to it once in a while.... some songs I like... most I don't.... but for people to say his solo stuff is at another level than The Band's later stuff (Jericho, Hig on The Hog, and Jubulation) surprizes me... it is just my opinion that Robbie's solo stuff dosen't reminds me of anything that The Band released with Robbie or without him... and thats why I personally feel that the other guys in The Band defentally had a much bigger role in The Band's songwriting...

I think some songs (covers) that The Band did after Robbie left were done for the "live experence"... The Band after Robbie, continued to tour around playing clubs and big and smaller venues and the songs like Hand Jive, Crazy Mama, Stuff You Gotta Watch, Atlantic City, Youngblood, Blind Willie McTell, Stand Up,..etc.... were all kick ass songs to hear during their shows...

another thing I feel is that The Band after Robbie were also doing solo shows, playing with other musicians, acting (Levon anyway) and probably didn't really have the time writing all new songs.... I also think that maybe the record deal the new Band got didn't give them the amount of money that they could of taken more time to create new songs.... where as Robbie has all the time in the world to write new stuff and take his time.... from what it sounds like he is a multi millionare and the other members needed to be out there working to pay the bills.. I also think there was nothing they would rather be doing than playing music for their fans..

I just think sometimes people make it sound like Levon, Garth, Rick (when he was alive) played only because they needed the money... I truly feel if they all were Billionares they would still be out there playing for the fans and having a ball.... and it just seems like Robbie just got sick of playing live for people and wanted to do something else...

Entered at Wed Jun 4 13:11:10 CEST 2003 from (193.10.71.3)

Helena R.

Subject: feud and credits

Bayou Sam: I think you have a point there about Robbie being left alone and the others not standing by him in his ambition to keep the band and the work together. I compare it with the Beatles´ story just a few years before their break-up when Paul McCartney was the only one trying to keep the group together and then got blamed for trying to take things over and be the leader. That must have been very frustrating. I think Robbie and Paul have the same kind of character: very talented workoholics with a strong will. "It´s lonely at the top" My personal favourite in the Band is Levon but for me the whole complexity of their story is what catches me. There are always two sides (or more) to a conflict. I really look forward to Robbies biography.

Peter Viney: I would like to think that Levon had more knowledge and experience than to mix up what songwriting is about. But, I don´t know him. Anyway - take care//Helena

Entered at Wed Jun 4 11:36:44 CEST 2003 from 80-194-171-58.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (80.194.171.58)

Al Edge

Something to get our head round there EN. As one who likes dots joined your posts keep the dwindling remains of my grey matter simmering nicely!! ;-o)

Entered at Wed Jun 4 11:28:37 CEST 2003 from 80-194-171-58.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (80.194.171.58)

Al Edge

There did use to be folk on here who held the same view as me about the exceptionalism of Big Pink and The Band. Perhaps there still are but they no longer post. And such a view IS crucial to my contention that there might just have been something a little bit 'different' or 'special' about the songwriting composition/process of Robbie's and Richard's songs on those specific albums. Having written around 50 odd [and boy do I mean odd!!] songs myself I do know a tiny bit about the process so I'm not being deliberately naive here. That said, I do thoroughly respect Pat's, Peter's and, particularly as an outstanding songwriter himself, Jeff's views on this subject. It just so happens that I seem to perceive the quality of 'Big Pink' and 'The Band' in a rather different light than those fine folk. For me it stands head and shoulders above their other stuff which is not - I stress NOT - to disparage the fine qualities of that subsequent - and in the case of the Basement Tapes preceeding - material.

What I cannot understand is the need the odd few on here seem to have to disparage others or other's views. We are all entitled to our view especially if such a view is heartfelt or considered.

Fantastic Bruce story Calvin. Many thanks for sharing it. You do not surprise me, however. I can't ever imagine Bruce responding to such a situation without grace and self-effacing humour. I suspect if you cut Bruce open he would be as genuine inside as he seems to be outside. I don't think you could ever feign his genuineness for the length of time he has displayed it. As I I've said so many times I love the bloke immensely. BTW - did you get that Bruce Christmas cd and the Gene Clark Silvery Moon I sent you a few months back? Can't recall if I heard from you. If not it went to that address you mailed me.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 11:04:38 CEST 2003 from (81.22.75.237)

Empty Now

El Condor Pasa was just a song of Simon & Garfunkel with stupid lyrics like i'de rather be a forest than a street...i was not cultured enough...Latin America was just good football teams, a sufficient reason which made me dreaming of that countries as an ideal.
The Football World-Cup was anounced in West-Germany, i supported the Netherlands, the best team in the world. A special opening ceremony was held in Munich: Each country presented a "folklore" musical band. Argentina came with a sympathetic Inca group playing the flute of Andes. I heard El Humahuaqueno for the first time. it was divine. The reverb of Olympiasch Stadion, the silence of the spectators, gived the sensation that the music descended from the sky, was performed by The Creator. At the instant when the tune ended, i was a supporter of Argentina, a very modest team before Kempes and Maradona.

During the following months, i deeply invetigated that culture, that music, i played it by imitation, the Andes were in my mind one sorte of Eden of peace and good music.The day Jean told us about a journey sponsorised by a Catholic humanist organisation, i was more than full of enthousiasm, the dream came true.

When we landed on the airport, there was an other reality. The first "Inca" i met was a student, i was so happy to talk with him. He gently told me that many people made the same mistake, for a random facial similarity, he was actually of an old-continent descent. The explanation he innocently forwarded shocked me...at the instant, and untill today..."Never a Native can reach the university grade". They told us only those of the old-continent and some sun-empire descent. The Incas of my dreams, those who made the best music i ever heard, had the only right to go in cooper mines by 300 Fahrenheit, and die.
The whole world condemned the Apartheid, it was a written law, here the situation was awfully worse, the same law was just lived...under a socialist government.

The journey was a mess, i was sick in altitude, i saw the Condor, Father Dominique gived us a shelter in the mountain. He thought he was acoomplishing an immense work, he dedicated his life to the Native, teaching their children, bringing them some money, clothes and food.
And i loved them, the poorest people in the world, whose simple survival was an enigma, their hopes, their expectations, all the day chewing a leave of coca...and i saw the smiling eyes of Teresa, her innocent visage, her marvelous hair, ruby in night satin, and i loved her, in her magnifiscent poverty, and i loved her, and i loved her, a one-way love with no echo, i never resaw that visage, or even one that resembles from far, some things will never reappear, they are lost once forever
Father Dominique asked us to send him any thing could help, when i left ly heart, my soul, and my life, returning to the darkness of Belgium. And i never can believe again in humanism, good sentiments, Love and charity, that of those who born in the good side...and i was one of them, i sent nothing to Father Dominique...i just still listening sometimes to flute tunes...Llastay...Perito Pastor...Yaravi...and from the deepest bottoms of my soul, it happens that i hear one voice silently shouting...

Carry On, Evil Robbie...Carry On...

Entered at Wed Jun 4 09:12:59 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Jamie

Subject: Stage Fright

Pat Brennan - I'm glad you have the same enthusiasm for Stage Fright that I have. The only issue I have with the record is the order. 'Time to Kill' seems like such a can't miss opener to me.

Aurelia Rose - Nice post...better name! I'm guessing you're a youngin like me???

great1jg@aol.com

Entered at Wed Jun 4 08:34:57 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ed Voci

Subject: Subdudes, Charlie Young

Charlie Young: I thought the Subdudes had broken up a few years back. There was a farewell tour and the whole bit. I did not know they travelled under the name The Dudes. This is fabulous news. I just visited their website and see the lineup has changed a bit. Tom Malone, one the great voices of rock and roll imho (also in the group Tiny Town and he has a solo CD)is still there, but no Johnny Rae Allen. If anyone has info on this, it would be appreciated.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 08:09:53 CEST 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Tiny Monster

Subject: Trains n Things

I used to ride the freights back when I was a younger
version of myself. Good way to travel. After a war ...

Now ...
Things are different ...

The heart still remembers

Entered at Wed Jun 4 07:56:54 CEST 2003 from va-spotsy-cuda1-c5b-95.frbgva.adelphia.net (68.65.37.95)

Charlie Young

Subject: The Subdudes, Seldom Scene & Seldom Seniors

I'm just back from a very Band-like concert by the fantastic New Orleans band called the Subdudes. It was a varied and versatile, high energy show that demonsrates a rebirth of this band thanks to some time off and a couple of new members. The accordian and mandolin mix made me think of Garth and Levon at time, but the Fender bass and Telecaster attacks on other songs brough Rick and Robbie to mind. Little Feat influence was probably more obvious with lots of slide playingw worthy of Lowell George at his best. It's good to have this band back and I look forward to their next studio effort. The show at the Birchmere here in Virginia tonight display five musicians at the peak of their powers.

Speaking of slide guitar: I missed adding anything to the recent thread on the subject but heard Chuck Berry's classic early instrumental, "Deep Feeling," the other day and it stands as one of my favorite slide guitar tracks.

It's nice to see the Seldom Scene mentioned here, and the connection to The Band is Emmylou Harris. The five original members of the Seldom Scene started playing at the Red Fox Inn in Bethesda, Maryland in 1971, and Emmylou became a regular at the club around the same time (and--along with Linda Ronstadt--later recorded with the group).They soon helped launch the original Birchmere loctaion in Alexandria, Virginia and the current club features a huge mural of the original five members of teh bluegrass group. Dobro player Mike Auldridge became a much in-demand session man and would up forming his own band. Dr. John Starling stopped touring to practice medicine in Fredericksburg, Virginia. Mandolin master John Duffy passed away in 1996, and the current version of the Seldom Scene includes only one member. Recently, though, all the surviving members have started regular gigs at the Birchemere, where they perform as the "Seldom Seniors."

Entered at Wed Jun 4 07:22:28 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

BS-Lie down, take some deep breaths and relax my friend. Everything is going to be OK. Really. The bad man won't say anything more to you. The only real problem here is you seem quite willing to spout off until someone gives it back, then you want to run into the corner and cry foul. I speak my mind and I stand by everything I say. Hell yes I have some nerve, and I would love the opportunity to tell Robbie how I feel face to face. I really hope he reads this stuff so he knows how strongly some people feel. I have been coming here for a long time and only rarely post, but when the Robbie Adoration Society started making love to his image after he received his "degree", I couldn't hold back. He was one of my guitar idols growing up, but he committed the worst crime with his power mongering and that ain't cool in my book. As for leaving here, since you have copied my posts you ought to know that I said I would TRY and stay away from this place and it's negativity for a while. I'm sure you have it posted on your wall so read it. And I did try until you morons started calling me back. So you can thank yourself for that one. Oops I called you a name. I better leave you a definition so that will make it all right. Isn't that how it works, King BS?

mo·ron ( P ) Pronunciation Key (môrn, mr-) n. A stupid person; a dolt. Psychology. A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.

n. A person whose IQ lies between 45 and 59. Slightly stupider than a retard (60-69) but still smarter than an idiot (below 45).

I will again try and leave this place for a while and if you want me to stay gone then please stop your flaming when I leave. I won't promise, but I will try. Isn't it odd though that the one who hates me the worst is the most responsible for keeping me around. And to the rest of you folks who I have bothered, I am truly sorry. I really am. I still stand behind everything I have said though no matter how offensive. Robbie deserves that and more.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 06:59:21 CEST 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3612793.sympatico.ca (65.93.193.160)

brown eyed girl

I was thinking how The Hawk has been there for Robbie at the Dana Glover event and at The Horseshoe Tavern hanging out in the basement while Boomkat is performing and at the Aboriginal Awards lately......One of the musicians who I met at Garth's gig at Jeff Healey's who sometimes plays with The Weber Brothers told me that The Hawk was only going to show up at Garth's gig if Robbie showed up......Still friends after all these years.....

Neuwirth compliments The Hawk, "He's the only one that can make Robertson play boogie guitar behind his back....He's the only one that can make Robbie grin.".......

I saw on the Alternate Band site that Levon's manager called Robbie a "girly-boi" and again thought of The Hawk! 'cause in one of my Documentaries he shares that Robbie always stayed away from any kind of violence and that Robbie was a hip and attractive guy since he was a young teenager. ....I wonder what The Hawk would say to that kind of name calling about one of his friends.....Anyway, I'll continue to raise my peace sign like Robbie and damn if he's this fit at almost 61......And he even plays guitar and writes songs and promotes other artists.....We differ here.....Holly McNarland Robbie....not Dana.....;-D....and leave the acting to the real actors......

Anyway, the two times I saw Robbie walk into a room (Indigo Book Store to promote Dana Glover and at Canadian Music Week) he looked very insecure and quiet like but he made a definite entrance.....that's for sure....but as soon as he started talking about his passions in life......He was in his element for sure.....Anyway, sure glad I have the taped interview from Canadian Music Week....Robbie's words again......Speaking as always....for himself.....I also really liked how he never asked me what I was going to do with the photographs I took of him and he never told anyone not to take any photos.....He even had a sense of humour when we had our photo taken......Jeff had the zoooom pointing in our faces and Robbie just said "Hey move back with that thing"......:-D.....Hopefully next time I will see him play live and then I'll move on.......lol....

Entered at Wed Jun 4 06:53:01 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rozlyn

Did ya hear me callin'? This John Starling song is for you ...

He rode all the way to Texas
On an old freight train
He's lettin' ya know he's the movin' kind

A light shines from my winda
I just can't sleep no more
Oh Lord, it hurts so much to be alone
But the rail-men never do admit
That it's them that might be wrong
At least that's what he told me in his song

He rode all the way to Texas
On an old freight train
Didn't miss the girl he left behind
He rode all the way to Texas
And didn't shed a tear
He's lettin' ya know that he's the movin' kind

The freedom that he sings about
I guess I'll never know
I just can't shake the guilt or kill the pain
But it helps to ride when the lights are low
I'll get on board the radio
And take a ride to Texas on his train

He rode all the way to Texas
On an old freight train
Didn't miss the girl he left behind
He rode all the way to Texas
And didn't shed a tear
He's lettin' ya know that he's the movin' kind
Yes he's lettin' ya know that he's the movin' kind ....."

Entered at Wed Jun 4 06:06:40 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

I was staring at my big framed glossy poster of "Starry Starry Night" this afternoon while chewing on my grapenuts soaked in sugar and Christian Brothers for breakfast and it made me wonder. If Vincent would have been fortunate enough to sell this painting would he have been forced to give co-painter royaties to God?

Dave G. - Hi Huney. I guess you gathered from previous reports that I am anti-Levon. Not So. I called Levon something a while back, I called him a "fundiment". What's a fundiment? Well, according to Larry McMurtry, "It's a hole in your body, it's not your nose, your mouth or either one of your ears" I just said that for comic relief. I didn't really mean it.

To the music: You said you had the soundtrack to "Deliverence" I never heard the whole thing. I remember seeing the movie tho. It came out in 73 I think. I was 14. I remember I sat somewhere in the back center of the theater and there were hardly no women in the place, just a bunch of Viet Nam veteran-type guys dressed in camouflage. I got stared at a lot. Like "What the hell is a girl kid doin' here" type looks. It was weird. I was told that the movie had a lot of music in it and I liked the "Dueling Banjos" that was a hit on the radio so I went. The only music I heard other than that "Dueling Banjos" was the music Ned Beatty made as he went crawling around on the ground with his underpants half down. Needless to say, 14 year old Roslyn was a little "mystified" by the entire experience. (That was always the term my mother used when she was scared shitless.) My dad used to be one of Joey Chitwood's Thrill Show guys.

If you're interested in Bluegrass music, get you a "Seldom Scene" record. The original members of the Seldom Scene were made up of some surgeons and doctors from Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore.(not all of them tho).The hippest Bluegrass in the world in my opinion. Get you a Stanley Brothers record, a Johnson Mountain Boys record (the tightest act in Bluegrass) and a Larry Sparks record and throw in the Bluegrass Cardinals too. Dave Evans and River Bend, Osborne Brothers, Maybe the one you could more easily find is the Steve Earle co-laboration with the Del McCoury Band featuring Del's son Ronnie on Mandolin and the soundtrack to "O Brother, Where Art Thou" The mandolin is my favorite instrument to play, it's the soulfulist little thing in the world other than the harmonica I think. What kind of music do you write? Your link didn't work for me. I play with a bluegass band about 5 or 6 times a year locally. Firehalls and local festivals. We played in the town square last week. It was nice. I love singing and playing gospel music other than secular stuff. I love to see faces light up and burdons lift off people's shoulders as they listen to songs about Jesus' sacrifice and Love. I used to do that in church as a child. I loved it then too. Folks around here love their Bluegrass. Deep Southwestern Pennsylvanians are a soulful lot. Hard-working, nature-lovin' folks with not much to look foward to except another hard day in the steel mill or the dairy farm. This part of Pa. is filled of Dairy farms and Potato chip factories. You ever ate a "Bordon's Mallo Cup" We make 'em locally. Marshmallow creme nestled in a paper cup and covered with the most delectable crispy-coconut chocolate ever comsumed. You don't know what you're missin'. I love that honeycomb candy England mames but I can't never find it. Dave, Also try and find you a J.D. Crowe and the New South record if ya can. I always loved their version of Ian Tyson's "Summer Wages"

And all the beer taverns
All down along Yonge Street
The dreams of the seasons
Are all spilled down on the floor
All the big stands of timber
Just waitin' for fallin'... Wow Beautiful song.

Also Dave, try and find you a Hazel Dickens record. She's pure West Virginia coal mining soul. The land is in her voice and it's the land, as we well know, that makes the music. She done some of the music to John Sayles "Matewan"

Hills of Home .. Hills of Home
Family scattered off and gone
These old hills they been passed by
Yes they've seen their share of leavin' in their time

The Nashville Bluegrass band did a beautiful version of " The Train Carryin' Jimmy Rogers Home"

Well come along my dear
The time is drawin' near
We got to walk down where the field is overgrown
Consumption claimed his life
And we dare not miss the sight
Of the train carryin' Jimmy Rogers home

We had some hard times these past few years
We lost the farm and almost lost our spirits too
But it's the strangest thing
When we heard that man sing
We knew somehow we'd make it thru
I can hear that whistle blow
That old train is rollin' slow
Sounds like it's cryin for the singin' brakeman too
Back to the sunny south he'll go
And he'll never roam no more
There goes the train carryin' Jimmy Rogers home...

I have today off...sorry. I won't post no more. God forbid, I'd be a pain in somebody's ass.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 06:05:12 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Subject: last one today - I promise

The live Ringo CD that has Levon, and Rick on it is on eBay, and the bid is at one dollar. I've already got, but I thought one of you might be interested. It's a good CD.

If I did the link right it should take you right to the auction.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 06:03:35 CEST 2003 from (64.207.6.13)

Brit

Subject: love em'

love the band. damn.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 05:50:35 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Dale = Did I hurt your feelings calling you a bozo? He was a clown that made children laugh.

Dale = here are quotes from two of your posts in which you are talking about Robbie Robertson - dated Jan.2-

"a crook that stabbed his brothers in the back".

"a lowlife, cheating, scumbag who sucker punches people when he can and runs away and hides when he can't".

That's where the bozo comment came from, and I'm sticking to it.

You got a hell of a nerve in my opinion, coming into this site, that a man works very hard to maintain as a homage to a group of people he adores the work of - and talk that kind of low-rent trash - mainly that second quote. I wish you the opportunity to tell Robbie that to his face....... You also made this big statement about leaving here, ending with the words "The End". What happened.

Have some more respect for the webmaster - the other people in here, who maybe feel different than you.

And no - I'm not the king by a long shot. I just wanna break even.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 05:28:05 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

I'm thinking (out loud) that Levon's credit really isn't in cowriting, but "ispiration". That credit is wonderful but has no financial reward.

Why do people think Robbie has any responsibility for his ex-bandmates troubles later on? As much as we chersih the whole "brotherhood" image that existed for a time - it's only a small part of the whole picture at this point. I get the feeling from some small quotes by Robbie, that in a way the others (maybe not all) were actually not there for him and The Band as a unit by the mid-70's. He may well have been very much alone by the time of "Islands" - or even earlier. I can see that as a very frustrating time for RR. So he decides to orchestrate a fitting, and honorable farewell for The Band - then the man goes full steam ahead with his career without looking back, right up to now. And along the way he gets accussed of a lot of bad stuff. I even recall some suggestion awhile back in here that RR could be partly held responsible for Richard's suicide.

Robbie - please write an autobiography.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 05:18:25 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

BS=Are you saying your post wasn't meant to be hurtful? Bozos? Name calling? Or are you just the King of the GB and your own rules don't apply to you? I'd take a look down at your suit Pal, because it looks to me as if you have nothing on at all.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 05:15:39 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Calvin

About 1985 or so, it was right before Born in the USA broke big, my friend Alan-who was a huge Bruce fan, decided to get a few of us to roam the hall's of the Holiday Inn near the Richfield Collisuem that Bruce was playing out.

Cut to two young men about to give up after dodging security and roaming the halls for well over an hour when a door that came up from the pool area opens and Bruce Springsteen walks out in bathing trunks with a towel around his shoulders-starts walking stride for stride with the 2 dumbfounded young men, recognizing their presence with a simple "hey."

Alan siezes the opportunity and launches into a speech, telling Bruce that for our generation he is our Beatles, and how his stories and songs mean so much to him, making him feel that other people out there feel the way he does. Bruce listens, and after Alan finishes, he grabs his hand to shake it and says "believe it or not kid, that means more to me to hear than than it did for you to say it." Years later the kid part strikes me as funny as he was maybe 33-34 to our 21.

Just then this huge, and I mean huge, women comes out of the elevator-sees Bruce, screams his name and virtually envelopes him in a hug. Bruce looks over his shoulder at my friend Alan and says "see what the fuck you started kid."

True story, and a pretty funny one.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 05:07:28 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Curtis = I agree with what you said about anybody being able to express thier opinions - except when it's done in a hurtful manner - and when it's obviously designed to cause trouble only. For instance, you disagreed with some posters in your last post, in a very respectful manner that I'm sure the people will reply to the same way. The other bozos you mentioned could learn from your example.

BTW - Ringo also coined the titles "Hard Day's Night", and Tomorrow never Knows". No credit.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 04:59:44 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

PutEmUp (Jeff).....

e Yes folks that what it is. Foolish for us to talk about. Not foolish tor the feuders. But here I go.

Whoa , there Curtis, buddy boy. Order in the court! Incidentally, I am not getting the feeling you are a lawyer. Court reporter, bystander? I am curious.

Ideas do not qualify as songwriting. But I will qualify that with "Prearrangements, agreements implicit or implied, etc, etc" idea could count. If Mr B says to Mr A, why don'y you write a song about a dog with a blue eye and a brown eye. Mr A writes a song about a dog with a blue eye and a brown eye. Mr b did not write the song. He did not contribute to the song. He suggested something. If Mr B said to Mr A , here's an idea for a song. Mr A says to MR b, MR c, Mr d and MR E, Hey, here is what I got about that dog with the blue eye and Brown eye, and everyone chimes in with contributions and they work up a song. Or they all chime in at different times over a period of time, or all do it together over the course of time. IF it was a plan, like let 's meet at 2 and DO THIS,let's work on the dog song, OR they meet at 2, decide to play football, then they go back to th we blue and brown eyed dog story/song, or even if it was not officially planned but happened that way, in a organization that had already been together 8 to 10 years, it is pretty safe to say that there was an implied agreement. The agreement being that they were working on the song together. Only the people present know what actually transpired. My bet is that they worked on the songs together, maybe some songs more than others. But noone was keeping score.

An idea for a song is not songwriting unless there is a formal agreement that it would be considered such. And while that might be legal, I still say it is not songwriting. But I do not believe that Levon's, Rick's, Richard's, or Garth's contributions ended at that point, definitely, possibly only or mostly (Garth was always there), with regard to the first two albums.

If a songwriter wants to generously give points to people who have inpired a song, with a statement, or an idea, that is great, but not necessary.But again, I do not think the 4 guys other than Robbie limited their contributions to ideas or inspiration. And I do believe there was an implied agreement of sorts, and everyone kind of shrugged their shoulders when it was overlooked by RR.

I have previously written much more on this subject. I am taking leave of this now.

Something to munch on: Think on this folks. A lawsuit is filed. Certain steps take place. Ed could tell us more on this. I imagine phone calls, negotiations, then assuming negotiations lead nowhere, what is next? Depositions. Ok, Robbie and Levon both get deposed. Garth is the swing deposee. Where it goes from there wopuld have a lot to do with what Garth says in depositions. If it goes to court, once again, Garth is the hole card.

Some pretty funny, and some pretty interesting words have been known to come out of Garth's mouth. The lawyers in this case will indeed be fortunate to have the case. Almost worth doing for free.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 04:55:55 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Bill Johnson

Which brings me to a new area which might be full of too much guessing. But that never stopped anyone else here. I think that when Rick, Garth and Richard foolishly sold thier shares in the Band to Robertson they did not know about the oncoming invention of CD's. Robbie being a Hollywood insider did. He jumped at it and quickly recouped his investment. What little royalties the other would have made were now gone and the road was thier home (Thankfully for many of us Band fans). This scenario does not include Levon who says he didn't sell. So who knows?

The whole dispute arises from money which is sad. I'm sure Rick took a major, major hit getting out from under that drug bust in Japan. Truly sad. And Levon's biggest creditor when he declared bankruptcy was the Sloan Kettering cancer Institute. So he probably took a big hit when he got sick. Also I suspect Garth is being modest and taking the high road when he downplays his role in the Band's greatness. He and his cohorts know what he did. He saved The Last Waltz for god's sake by re-recording all his parts note for note to fix the organ buzz that would have ruined everything. Without him there is maybe no original or re-release.

In the end look at what these went through. Richard commits suicide, Danko's son dies, Levon's house and Garth's houses burn down. Stan Szelest dies, Billy Preston gets busted, Rick gets busted and Levon gets cancer. Whew! Oh yeah and Robbie Robertson loses his dear friends over money. It's a shame he never stepped up to the plate to help out when he could have after what these guys did for him. Or maybe he offered and they didn't except. Either way there's no way in a fair world that he's the only one sitting on the pot of gold. But the world isn't fair.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 04:54:03 CEST 2003 from 213-48-208-21.wit.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.208.21)

Dave G.

Subject: " Pat B."

Pat,I will talk to you tomorrow if your here?...I must go to bed now!,it`s 3:30am here in England.

I`m on holiday from work this week..but my 2 year old daughter will want me to entertain her in about four hours time!..zzzzzz!..Speak to you soon!.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 04:45:41 CEST 2003 from dialup-65.57.13.140.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.57.13.140)

Pat Brennan

Lil, thanks for the email. Sad indeed. And you are quite right. Richard had nothing to say about the feud. I'll repeat: Storyville would have been a great Band album but for the lost opportunity.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 04:43:59 CEST 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Tiny Monster

Subject: By Any Other Name ...

The Briar And The Rose

I fell asleep down by the stream
And there I had the strangest dream
And down by Brennan's Glenn there grows
A briar and a rose

There's a tree in the forest
But I don't know where
I built a nest out of your hair
And climbing up into the air
A briar and a rose

I don't know how long it has been
But I was born in Brennan's Glenn
And near the end of spring there grows
A briar and a rose

Picked the rose one early morn
I pricked my finger on a thorn
It had grown so high
It's winding wove the briar around the rose

I tried to tear them both apart
I felt a bullet in my heart
And all dressed up in springs and clothes
The briar and the rose

And when I'm buried in my grave
Tell me so I will know
Your tears will fall
To make love grow
The briar and the rose

Tom Waits

For you Rozlyn ... You Devil You ...

Entered at Wed Jun 4 04:42:26 CEST 2003 from 24-161-21-18.hvc.rr.com (24.161.21.18)

Lars

Subject: legal pursuits

CURTIS- Are you by any chance a bailiff? You sound like you know a lot.

I think back to some of the things the Band members have said,

"Everybody seemed to have good intentions." (Levon)

"We thought we could change the world, until we realized that we're really just put here to help out the neighborhood." (Rick)

"There weren't enough PEOPLE in the room to get angry." (Robbie)

"I can't play that...music." (Garth)

"I just want to break even." (Richard)

....and I smile at the memory of five young men who were young, bonded in a brotherhood, and the best in the world.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 04:41:26 CEST 2003 from 213-48-208-21.wit.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.208.21)

Dave G.

Subject: "Tracy"

Tracy,Point taken..I just think it`s a shame that the music comes secondary at times,that`s all.

But as you said,the "Feud" and other delicate issues are what people wanna talk about..and people such as yourself have the knowledge to participate in such issues very comfortably.

It`s just when some people argue their point,as if it is "Fact"..that pis*es me off,when in fact the only people that know the truth are the artists themselves.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 04:36:50 CEST 2003 from mcha-ab092.taconic.net (205.231.148.187)

Lil

I was trying to think earlier about conversations with Rick over the years, trying to remember any kind of bitterness or whatever. And aside from a few quick remarks, I can't recall anything that would've made me stop and think 'hmmm.. there's a feud going on'. Same with all my conversations with Garth. Again, a few remarks here and there.. but nothing that ever came close to the magnitude of what this feud seems like in here. I wonder if we've somehow managed to make a mountain out of a molehill?

It's my thought that even if money was involved, the bottom line here is that friendships were broken. I'm not even sure if any one person is to blame.. those things just sometimes happen. I believe there's probably always a special place for an old friend somewhere in the recesses of ones memory, even if disagreements and miscommunication have gotten in the way. Maybe it's just that way with Levon and Robbie. Simply a friendship that wasn't destined to survive.

Anyhow.. that's my thoughts. I just know I'm grateful that at some point, all 5 Band members were together to give us all the wonderful music that we all love so much. I'm not sure how important it is to hash and re-hash who wrote what. I think we're just lucky that the songs were written at all.

A little long-winded, I know. Blame Dunkin Donuts biiiiiig caramel iced coffee, which I shouldn't be drinking at 10pm when I have to get up at 4:30am. I'll never learn :-)

Have a good night.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 04:10:29 CEST 2003 from cpe-65-25-199-100.mn.rr.com (65.25.199.100)

Dave Z

Peter V: I haven't listened to any Penderecki yet but I was wondering from Robbie's comments about it.... whether it actually influenced work on his solo CDs... Maybe the cricket song?...

Entered at Wed Jun 4 03:45:44 CEST 2003 from usr346-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk (62.30.233.102)

Dave G.

Subject: "Lifeboy"

Hi again!,I had a time out come up against the mail I sent you, but another address of yours came up on display...you will know what I mean by this; which one shall I mail?...society or openworld? We shall get there in the end!.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 03:44:55 CEST 2003 from tnt-77-141.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.141)

Tracy

The "point is" that it's interesting to read all of these views on The Band. This guestbook deals with that subject, or it wouldn't be called "The Band Guestbook." Unfortunately, the feud is a huge part of The Band's history no matter what way you look at it, since '93 it has been that way. Since then, if Robbie is mentioned in any way, the feud is bound to follow. Even the smallest thing people can pick apart and analyze.

I'm only doing the same thing everybody else is doing. There is no difference other than when I try to write an intelligent post about The Band it gets ignored or in this case gets the "What's the point?" I think I have every right to ask about things which I find add to the mixture of the subject at hand. Unless in this case I asked of something too difficult to hypothesize.

Tracy

just curious

Entered at Wed Jun 4 03:32:29 CEST 2003 from dialup-65.57.13.140.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.57.13.140)

Pat Brennan

As far as Robertson goes, I love Storyville. Of course, I wish it had been a Band album and I truly regret the circumstances that prevented it from being one, but it isn't. I would place it at the top of all post-LW output.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 03:28:33 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Curtis Blue

Mr. Viney-I also understand your point of view. The Hawks were never made aware of the credits, never asked for them and never made any money from them. Bruce Springsteen just went through a thing on his last record where it was clear that he recorded someone else's song and was called on it, he begrudgingly gave the writer partial credit. To answer Mr. Brennan's question, they all should have divided all credits 5 ways, like a lot of bands do, U2, REM just to name two. I have interviewed 3 people that were there most of the time. Levon was the story teller, everyone knows that. All three of those people agree that Levons Ideas were used in Robbies credited songs. To answer another question asked here, Yes a drunken Ringo should have gotten a writing credit for "Badge". He wrote one line, all it takes to qualify for credit, same as ideas. Mr. Viney, of course everyone knows Steven Davis wrote Levons book, I thought you would fall for my most obvious trap, If Levon did not write his book then why did he get credit? Answer, he collaborated with Steven Davis on it. What is the difference between Levon telling storys like W.S. Walcott Medicine Show,which is a song about Levon's youth going to the Midnight Ramblers, or King Harvest, what would Robbie know about these two gem Ideas that went around because of Levon Helm? He would not. Robbie is a gifted writer and musician. He did like to take credit for everything, thats just the way he is, thats his personality.

I won't convince anyone here that has their mind set about this issue, There is another place I will do that, trust me on that account. I just think that both You Mr. Viney and Mr. Brennan both have the tendancy to proclaim knowledge about this subject, and I think your information is hear say and innuendo, I don't deal with that on a daily basis, I find it irritating

There are no feud's just war's.

Mr. Brennan, about your book. I thought there were parts of it that were informative and fun, but not subjective enough to hold more than a passing interest. I think you wrote it as a fan and hey whats wrong with that? A work not to be taken very seriously, but not the drivel that you purport it to be. If you did not get paid perhaps you should call my office, how many copy's were sold? I know it was done in earnest and over all you did a fine job, no really you did.

All the GB that are upset with this discussion, don't be, this is just what an open forum should be, not deleting posts when you don't like what is written, even when it gets nasty and out of control. This is the best website I have ever seen for any band, I have been to a million of them, I would never jeopardize the well being of this site. If anyone feels I have, please post that.

I know this is an international site and I think that it would be nice if everyone got along in the world, and its a big beautiful world. People sometimes say dumb things and think dumb things, that is human and should be to tolerated. Even here by the mighty GBer's. Even Judge Judy and Dale need to express their thought's. So thats it for me for the week I will be in court the remainder of the week. Be well all

Entered at Wed Jun 4 03:09:55 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

I just want to add another thought to my last post. I'm not "against" Levon. I would, in fact, NOT want to see someone ask him for specific examples of where he wrote parts of songs. I don't really see any serious value in it. I just question how much water Levon's assertions hold. I love the mans work. I just think these "late" charges at RR are questionable - that's all. I also hate to see RR get hammered in here purely on Levon's statements. I don't understand why a person who is presumably a Band fan can come in here and put Robbie at the level of some of the worst people in history - and resort to calling him names. It's pathetic.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 03:08:39 CEST 2003 from usr346-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk (62.30.233.102)

Dave G.

Subject: "Tracy"......"What`s the point?"

Hi! Tracy, You obviously know your stuff in regards to the "Band" and it`s history..so I will tread carefully!..I don`t agree that the re-surfacing of the "Feud" debate is a cool thing though, I guess everyone has their own view on issues re-"The Band"..royalties etc.

But wouldn`t it be fair to say..that all the unanswered questions that we desire to know the truth too, will never be answered by the fans...and can only be answered by the musicians themselves?...so what`s the point of the continued speculation?..Their "MUSIC" is why the majority of people attend this site..and find their way to the "Guestbook"..so what`s the point?.

I reckon Levon and Robbie..would find all this dialogue very depressing, if they ever visited the G.B.,in their sandwich break for example..I just think it would be more healthy and constructive..to discuss their "MUSIC"...and I`m quite sure this is one issue, even in their ongoing situation..that they would both AGREE on.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 02:40:13 CEST 2003 from 213-48-244-208.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.244.208)

Al Edge

In my view it is the exceptionalism of the material on Big Pink and The Band [Brown album] that remains the strongest argument for some degree of shared songwriting credit.

Principally in answer to Pat's oft-posted question regarding Richard's songwriting credits, I should stress that I make no distinction between Robbie's or Richard's accredited material on those albums in my reference to this 'sharing' of credits.

As most of you will know to the cost of undoubted eye-strain, time and again on these pages I have extolled at great length what I see as the uniqueness of The Band's two masterpieces. My own humble opinion - shared I know by some on here - is that such uniqueness is not simply within The Band's catalogue but within the entire popular music genre encompassing ANY artist of note. Clearly personal taste looms large in any such judgement of quality yet such exquisite offerings, as both recordings are, present to me a virtual irresistible argument of exceptionalism.

The fact is what our five heroes achieved - together with their accomplices such as John Simon let's not forget - on those two albums cannot be overstated. Both albums were milestones in popular music history and nothing either they or most anybody else has done before nor since has surpassed what they somehow managed to create back then.

I feel this is certainly the case with The Band's own subsequent recordings as well as with the post Band recordings of Robbie Robertson. No matter how good any of their subsequent material might have been, it surely cannot ever be bracketted alongside Big Pink and The Band.

Back to my main point now.

I accept without reservation that Robbie and Richard [to a lesser extent particularly after Big Pink] were THE songwriters of The Band. I don't think for one minute that such an assertion can be an issue with anybody. Not even Levon or his afficianados. Where I do have a problem is in reconciling the undoubted talents of those two gifted songwriters with the sheer peerless majesty of the material on Big Pink and The Band. As great as both men were and without wishing to detract from either of them in any way, to me an unexplained gulf still exists between what they were capable of creating on their own and what actually evolved with the rest of their bandmates.

As I see it both musically and lyrically, the material on Big Pink and The Band is simply SO wondrous, so exceptional and so superior to anything any of them achieved subsequently as part of the group or as individuals that it leads me to conclude that the collaboration necessary to achieve such divine quality simply must have been something different to the norm. Something that was beyond ordinary songwriting and recording procedures.

You listen to the material on Stagefright which is widely regarded as the group's third best original album. Magnificent as most of the album is, it remains an entire world away from the other two. Whilst Big Pink and The Band conjure up those rich tapestries of rural American life within which you can feel yourself being absorbed as if in some great film or novel, Stagefright merely enraptures you with some great songs performed by a great group.

In reality by the time of Stagefright, it seems to me that The Band had clearly left that magical place they had invoked on vinyl - the 'Secret Garden' as Springsteen terms it - where they'd created that tangible rustic existence for us all to share in. In its place was 'merely' the great album that Stagefright undoubtedly is.

Could it be then that the process by which they created those first two albums and the Brigadoon-like world they succeeded in evoking was not achieved by, shall we term it, orthodox songwriting and recording techniques? Sure there still had to be the mainstay songwriters and there's no doubt Robbie and Richard were they and were both up to that task. Was it the case, however, that those additional special ingredients necessary to transcend the merely mortal into something magical, were generated by the shared infusion of the entire band. And, if such a scenario was indeed the case on those first two albums, then wouldn't it be fair and just for some recognition of the creation of that material to be bestowed on Rick, Garth and Levon?

And the reason nobody bitched about it before 1983 or whenever?

Fucked if I know.

:-o)

Entered at Wed Jun 4 02:24:28 CEST 2003 from host213-123-145-215.in-addr.btopenworld.com (213.123.145.215)

Lifeboy

Subject: Dave G.

Still no joy Dave, you can get me on the above link.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 02:09:10 CEST 2003 from usr346-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk (62.30.233.102)

Dave G.

Subject: "Lifeboy"

Hi! Lifeboy,..Here is my link again as requested,if you have a problem again..leave me your link and I`ll contact you..and give you my link once again!..Man!..This is getting confusing!..hehe!.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 01:52:02 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Pat = I think most of us understand your question regarding splitting the credit on ALL the songs. I love the fact that you keep asking it even though nobody has an answer.....It would interesting to have Levon go through the whole Band catalog - song by song - and say which ones he considers as not written soley by Robbie.

If everyone who ever threw something into a song, or was in the room at the time, suddenly sued for writing credit the courts would be filled. There ARE Band songs with multiple credits, so Robbie obviously wasn't against giving credit where it was due.

When Harrison and Clapton wrote the Cream tune "Badge", a drunk Ringo stumbled into the room and immediately added the silly line, "I told you 'bout the swans that they live in the park" - should he get a writing credit?

It's a judgement call I suppose. John Simon touches on this in his excellent interview on this site......Has anyone ever asked Levon flat out to be more specific? What chords progressions did he come up with? - or did he simply tell Robbie what the date was the Richmond fell.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 01:45:23 CEST 2003 from usr346-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk (62.30.233.102)

Dave G.

Subject: "Pat B."..."Is the G.B.,like a runaway rabid dog at present?"

Pat,It`s a shame though isn`t it?..I had a mail from the creator of this site "Jan" the other day..and his described the current state of the G.B. as I quote.."A runaway pet that has a life of it`s own..".

He gave up checking it out, sometime ago. My knowledge of "The Band" is pretty good..from the Ronnie Hawkins days up until the "Last Waltz"...but I guess some people like to dig deeper than the music, into the personal issues of the group etc...that`s never really intrested me too much.

I`ve read Levon`s book "T.W.O.F."..read a few interviews of the other members, and that`s about it!. I take everything I read with a pinch of salt anyway, the only people who know the answers to the myths and unanswered questions..are the artists themselves, surely!. I agree that part of the problem on here, is the way people put their own personal view across in an often "Agressive manner"...so naturally, others will defend their beliefs in the same way.

And it goes on!....And it goes on!...And it goes on!..I`ts just a real bummer, for relatively "new visitors" to the G.B..such as myself,to be stuck in the crossfire, when all we wanna do is talk MUSIC!. I`ve posted a couple of text`s to "ROZ"..in the past and she seems very friendly and helpful...although I know she is in the "Robbie" corner re- some of the views that are flying around!..but I couln`t care less..It would be cool to talk you Pat, when all the arguments have blown over!.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 01:17:05 CEST 2003 from tnt-77-187.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.187)

Tracy

I'm so very glad this feud issue has come up once again. Maybe some unanswered questions could be hypothesized.

So far, I haven't heard anything about any of Manuel's family complaining, seeing as though Jane has worked for Bearsville. If Levon were to sue the estate would that have any bearing of ill will feelings between Jane and Levon seeing as though she was married to a fellow bandmate?

Has any band member "Next Of Kin" come forward with the same acussations as Helm or supported his statements from when this started to now?

How much do you think Levon is owed for songwriting royalties? How much do you think Robbie has made from it? Bare in mind his work solo and with Dreamworks can't be counted since that was post-Band.

Do you think that Levon's troubles financially come from bad investing? What happened to all that money he actually made from touring and whatnot? Does it help if a spouse helps out financially too? I haven't heard anything about Sandy.

I'm bringing this up because within the Robertson clan you have two successful people. One is prominent in the music business as an executive. The other is a successful therapist. If Robbie were to suddenly have no security as a solo success as an artist on his own or executive and his wife lose her therapist license, do you think they as a couple could make it just off of royalties?

I'm asking, do royalties pay for everybody's troubles, not just easing them? Would it completely stop the tension and bitterness that Levon feels?

On what basis could Levon sue the Bearsville Estate for? It's not as though Grossman personally oversaw the writing credit. Oh, or we're not allowed to tread on that issue since it would be insensitive to talk about somebody who is no longer with us (same as the Rick & Richard songwriting issue)? Would he sue Dylan too for including lyrics to songs that he took part in as a member of The Band?

Let's see he could have sued the Bill Graham estate for promoting "The Last Waltz" as a concert in San Francisco. Seeing as though, Levon felt the show produced no money for himself.

How about Scorsese? Hey, he filmed the concert. Shouldn't he be credited for the demise of The Band? People seem to like to make him look like a bad guy too.

Let's throw in the camera men for paying too much attention to the guys up front on the stage!

Capitol Records, Asylum Records, and Warner Brothers, the companies with the guys in suits for the contracts of The Band in various years. Oh hell, throw in Geffen and all of the executives at the companies and lawyers that squirmed out of said past royalty issues in '76.

Where does the blame stop?

Tracy

just curious

Entered at Wed Jun 4 01:15:07 CEST 2003 from host213-123-145-215.in-addr.btopenworld.com (213.123.145.215)

Lifeboy

Dave, well said. Aurelia also. At least it's mildly entertaining if a little tedious at times. Dave, I checked your link but it didn't work, any chance of posting again?

Entered at Wed Jun 4 00:47:05 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-15-254.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.15.254)

Pat Brennan

Dave G., I appreciate your ire. I would gladly refrain from ever discussing the feud again. However, for that to happen, people would have to stop bringing it up in the aggressive way that they tend to do. It's all right here in the archives.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 00:42:37 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-15-254.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.15.254)

Pat Brennan

Jan, were you supposed to pay me for that Watkins Glen drivel I wrote? Does Curtis know something I don't?

Entered at Wed Jun 4 00:34:06 CEST 2003 from usr346-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk (62.30.233.102)

Dave G.

Subject: "Aurelia Rose"

Hi! Aurelia,I can`t believe people are not learning!..The Guest book was shut down not long ago,as a consequence of all this in house fighting.

I`m 31 and although I`ve been a fan of the "Band" since I was 18..it has only been in the last couple of months that I`ve been attending this site..prior to that I didn`t own a computer so I couldn`t!. I thought the guestbook would be a good place to meet fellow fans and discuss the music of the "Band"...but it`s a total nightmare.

I couln`t give a sh*t that the feud between Robbie and Levon goes on..not intrested!, It`s the music they performed when they were together that`s important...re-the ongoing rift they still have, it`s THEIR BUSINESS PEOPLE!!...everyone can speculate on this!...and speculate on that!...till the break of dawn, but only "Levon Helm" and "Robbie Robertson"..hold the key, so what`s the point of people hammering on the door all the time!.

I`ve read Levon`s book..and heard Robbie`s account of the story,and depending on which member you like the best..it`s tempting to be biast towards one or the other.

I guess its the boxing ring scenario...Robbie fans in the one corner!...and Levon in the other!. But the fact of the matter is we all love the music..so why not talk about it?...instead of acting like a bunch of kids in the playground.

If people get exhausted with talking about the "Band"..it would be cool to hear more about other influences that they have in their record collection, this does happen from time time..and I can`t see the harm of it.It makes better reading than the current verbal abuse!. Hey!Aurelia..If you want to talk about the music of "The Band"..feel free to contact me on my own web site,as I don`t think you will get much joy in "The Guestbook" at present!.

Entered at Wed Jun 4 00:20:12 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-062.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.62)

Peter Viney

Curtis, Curtis Curtis …
1) Levon didn’t solely write his own book, but co-wrote with highly accomplished rock author Stephen Davis, who also managed to dredge out the dirt on Led Zeppelin & The Rolling Stones. Davis is an excellent pro writer and can find the drama and tension in a story and bring it to the fore.

2) I played no “race card”. I stated the facts. Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks, then managed by a Mafia associate, Morris Levy, ripped off the writers of songs (who by some coincidence happened to be African-American, if you prefer). One of these songs was published in the name of Levon Helm, even though two soul / R&B / black / African-American / race acts had already had hits with it. I think the alan Freed comparison is apposite and direct. This is what I wrote on the song elsewhere:

Levon “wrote” three tracks, his credits including You Cheated (You Lied), which had been a US # 12 hit for The Shields in the Fall of 1958 (initially Tender, then Dot 15805) Jesse Belvin put together this group, including Johnny ‘Guitar’ Watson’, Mel Williams and Charlie Wright, and sang falsetto. Frank Ervin sang lead. The Shields were covering an earlier release by a Texas group, The Slades, on Domino which got to #42 (CD now on Dee Jay Jamboree, CD55002). It was also covered by The Del-Vikings on Mercury. The Shields version is on Forever Doo Wop! Volume 2 (Kenwest KNEWCD 739), credited as ‘The Sheilds’ (sic). However, composer credits are to ‘Burch’ on this release. It is also on The Doo Wop Box and The Golden Age of American Rock ‘n’ Roll Volume 5 (Ace CDCHD 600).

Golden Age of American Rock ‘n’ Roll Volume 5 says it was put together in 1955 (which must be wrong) by George Motola who decided to cover the hit by The Slades (this hit was in 1958). He was so anxious to cover this Texan hit that he guaranteed sales of 2000 copies. The Shields had been a studio group, and the name was deliberately chosen to cause confusion. This is backed up by Ace Records information. To add to the complications (I’ve mentioned The Suedes, The Slades and The Shields in half a page) The Slades had originally been called The Spades until someone objected. There was also an answer disc, I Cheated, credited to Burch, and sung by Joyce Harris (and backed by The Slades). Both The Slades versionand the cover disc are on The Domino Story (Ace CDCHD 506, 1998).

The Rolling Stone review of the 1969 re-issue of the Hawkins album says that it was ‘later (sic) a number 1 hit for The Shields’. The reviewer was Griel Marcus, who should know, but he was pretty far off the mark with his comment:
‘Think about this. Levon Helm reached more people with more impact with You Cheated than the Band has with Music From Big Pink. ‘ Ho Hmm.

The Shangri-Las later recorded You Cheated (You Lied), and credited it to Helm. It can be found on several compilations e.g. The definitive remastered collection Myrmidons of Melodrama (RPM 136) (1995) and The Shangri-Las 16 Greatest Hits (Sweet 16. CD12008) (1990). The original recording was on Red Bird in 1965, and there are references to The Hawks doing recordings with Red Bird in 1965 with John Hammond Jnr.

The story behind these credits took some research. I’m indebted to Bill Millar for clearing it all up. The song was indeed written by Don Burch, the lead singer of The Slades, and published by Balconer Music, as was The Shields version. The Roulette versions, credited to Helm, are published by Patricia Music, a company named after Roulette boss Maurice Levy’s wife. Roulette was a mob company and they put names, real or non-existent, on composer credits in case there was any money in it. Bill Millar points out that songs by Larry Williams, Billy Emerson and Young Jesse may have been credited to Hawkins-MacGill, let alone 40 Days; and that You Cheated was credited to Helm. Incidentally, Ronnie Hawkins has said he doesn’t know even who MacGill was. Whatever… the money would have gone to Roulette and Levy rather than Levon. In another example outright gangster Gaetano Vartela received song credits.

So, yes, they ripped off “black” artists.

3) Pat can state his own points better than me, but if you think Robbie’s “King Harvest” deserved a 5 way credit, why didn’t Richard’s “We Can Talk” deserve a 5 way credit? That was Pat’s question. I haven’t seen anyone answer it.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 23:52:18 CEST 2003 from 122.232.252.64.snet.net (64.252.232.122)

Todd Atkinson

My apologies if I got that wrong.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 23:47:28 CEST 2003 from xtreme-1-138.dyn.aci.on.ca (69.17.160.138)

Rudiment

Subject: Aurelia Rose

All right Aurelia Rose your post was great I hope people take your advise.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 23:40:58 CEST 2003 from host213-123-145-215.in-addr.btopenworld.com (213.123.145.215)

Lifeboy

Entered at Tue Jun 3 23:28:36 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Curtis Blue

Subject: ALL THINGS

Where to begin ?

Ben Pike- playing the race card? You must really be kidding me with that bullshit. Levon is an "unresolved sloth of the white south"? "The south was built for them on the backs of the blackman"? Mr. Pike, are you insane? How many slaves did the Helm family own? Give me the exact number, you must know being in this guestbook making a fool of yourself

Mr. Powell, The wood set was stolen many years ago

Mr. Viney, I am most surprised by you, you playing the race card, Ronnie Hawkins and the Hawks rearranged BLACK artists songs, then took the credit? Really? You then compare them to Alan Freed? I think it is you who that is confused about what is writing and what is collaboration, did Levon write his own book? Did Robbie use the other members of the Bands Ideas in a song? Or did Robbie lock himself in a room and comeout with this material, and other than second hand guessing could you please provide one fact to support your claim?

Mr. Brennan-Did you from your "fairly remote position" also write your book about Watkins Glen? I have read both the proposal and the contract for the Bearville Studio complex and there are so many legal irregularities that a field day will be had.Even Robbie has a major beef there.

Now to your most reprehensible comments that Richard and Rick "Ripped Off" the other members of the Band. Your erroneous comment made so flippantly in an attempt at some type of humor, I can only guess. That or your egregious attact on two former members of the Band is a flagrant attempt to divert the attention from your good friend Robbie Robertson, good defense is a strong offense. Nice try though.

What I find most reprehensible in your contention that Rick and Richard "ripped off" the rest of the Band members is that they are no longer here to defend themselves. You, who have benefited financially from your association with the Band, I would have thought you had a little more respect for the members that have passed on. I am of course assuming you were paid for your writings as poorly written and reseached as they were. In my research I have come to expect that in the Robbie Robertson camp and those here have proved that to be the truth.

Mr. Viney and Mr. Brennan, Please in the future when you come to the table of debate, stop guessing at what you think you know. I deal in facts everyday and everyday people try to bullshit me, as fun as this is, please stop bullshitting me, Thanks gentlemen

Entered at Tue Jun 3 23:24:09 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-039.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.39)

Peter Viney

If I put my top 10 Band / solo Band member songs in a list, there'd be about four post-Band solo Robbie songs. There's been no decrease in quality. In fact the "Best" solo Robbie songs are better than anything since the Stage Fright set of songs. So at least to me that proves my point.

Fallen angel / Somewhere Down The Crazy River / Soap Box Preacher / Breaking The rules / Between trains - where's the quality drop? I don't perceive one. And that's just the Band-like stuff, I also rate the Native American material as largely better than anything on Cahoots or Islands. Different style though. But Robbie was never stuck in a (Stuff You Gotta watch / Willie & The hand Jive / Crazy Mama) rut either.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 23:23:31 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-15-254.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.15.254)

Pat Brennan

Like Bernard Purdy, Levon has a genius ability to create the rhythmic "pocket". The way he relates the downbeats to the upbeats--and the subsequent "breathing" of the rhythm that he creates--is really something. I recall Robertson going on about Levon's drumming when Storyville came out, how fortunate he considered himself to have played with such players. I would imagine that a lot of what Levon brings to the drums comes from his ability as a string player and a vocalist.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 23:20:12 CEST 2003 from proxy230.sowashco.k12.mn.us (63.225.128.230)

Aurelia Rose

HI! I just wanted to write and let you know how much I have enjoyed reading this guestbook these past few months. I am a kind of new Band fan, having just seen TLW for the first time last summer. I was surprised at how many songs I knew, but didn't know it was The Band that played them. Anyway, then I found this website, and I have been hooked on your guestbook ever since. I check it every few days, during my lunch hour, and I am continually amazed at how much fighting and biting goes on about things that happened 25 years ago! What is that all about? How can you get so worked up over something like that? It is music, you guys. So the Robertson guy was a little smarter than the rest, big deal! Somebody has to be smarter than the rest or we would still be living in caves. Maybe you guys need to go for a walk or something, go outside, kiss your significant others, get a pet. Are you all at work when you write these things? Do your bosses know you are spending your work day arguing about who owes who what and who did the most work back in 1972? I mean, I really get a kick out of you guys, don't get me wrong, it is very entertaining, to say the least. I just wonder if those old men ever get bored and check out the website dedicated to them and go "What the?????" I have this vision of the Robertson guy, sitting in his fancy office in California, chewing on a sandwich, and just shaking his head thinking "Holy Smokes, is this still going on? I could have sworn I lived through that 30 years ago." Wow! Well anyway, I just wanted to thank you all for the fun I have had reading your stuff. I hope you all have a terrific summer and don't take everything so seriously! It's not good for you!

Entered at Tue Jun 3 23:18:55 CEST 2003 from gpf-t200.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.200)

sadavid

This feud thing _is_ a son-of-a-gun. It seems to me that part of Levon's grievance is that he - and the others - provided much of the inspiration and content for the J.R.R.-credited songs, without getting the credit. In this context then, he's "the muse," and I guess it's typical in our culture that the _best_ the muse can hope for is some measure of immortality in the work, and maybe the rind from the genius's cheese. No art without the model, but no portrait without the artist. When L. da Vinci sold his masterpiece, did La Giaconda get a cut of the action?

Dale quotes Dylan's(?) "Masterpiece." Great song, but I'm not sure it supports any point of view. What bugs me is what I take to be serious-enough mistakes in the lyrics transcription (from this site). I actually think this stuff is Art and should be better served (I'm including Band-penned material in that assessment). So here's my version of that truth - from old and fallible memory. Corrections are welcome, the last line in particular is elusive:

Oh the streets of Rome are filled with rubble,
Ancient footprints are everywhere.
You can almost think that you're seeing double
On a cold, dark night on the Spanish Stairs.

Gotta hurry on back to my hotel room
Where I got me a date with a pretty little girl from Greece.
She promised she'd be there with me
When I paint my masterpiece.

Oh the hours we'd spend inside the Colosseum
Dodging lions and wasting time.
Oh those mighty kings of the jungle, I can hardly stand to see 'em-
Yes, it sure has been a long hard climb.

Train wheels are running through the back of my memory,
Where I ran on a hilltop following a pack of wild geese.
Some day everything is gonna sound like a rhapsody,
When I paint my masterpiece.

Sailing 'round the world in a dirty gondola,
Oh, to be back in the land of Coca-Cola.

Well I left Rome, and landed in Brussels,
On a plane ride so bumpy that I almost cried.
Clergymen in uniform and young girls pulling muscles,
Everyone was there to greet me when I stepped inside.

Newspaper men eating candy had to be held down by big police.
Yeah but someday, everything is gonna be different - when I paint that masterpiece.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 23:08:12 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

David P: Especially prescient of Bob if he was thinking of George II's legendary bar-top dance routine - even if that doesn't exactly count as standing.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 23:00:26 CEST 2003 from ool-4352ed70.dyn.optonline.net (67.82.237.112)

Brien Sz

Peter, trying to explain writing and how it works to those who aren't in the business of it certainly seems futile. This topic has been gone over so many times it truly is tiresome. I read your post and you couldn't put it any more precise. I have written on this matter myself and currently refuse to add more than I have in the past on this subject. You may as well take said head and bang it against said wall.

D - as for 'has RR written anything that rivals the Band days?' well that's all a matter of taste. I think RR has written some beautiful pieces that are just different than Band material and should be judged on their own merit. AND! if LH was such a great collaborator, then why didn't he find others to collaborate with to write some more genius material? I don't want to short change LH's contributions but consider....., ah hell, I've done this bit already.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 22:55:35 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

bassmanlee: When I saw Dylan & The Band perform in '74 at the old Omni in Atlanta, then-governor & future president Jimmy Carter was also in attendence. In light of the events of the Nixon / Ford era, the audience responded loudly when Dylan sang the line: "But even the President of the United States must sometimes have to stand naked."

Looking back now, I can't help but think of the irony of those words as they apply to President Carter. It leads me to wonder if Dylan not only had has ears attuned to the pulse of the times, but was also prescient to a scary degree.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 22:48:17 CEST 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1a-159.hhe.adelphia.net (68.168.201.159)

Amanda

GH: Well those guys, all of them have this tremendous natural literate talent. They speak eloquently. Levon in particular, who comes from the South, has become a historian and a collector of anecdotes, stories from his own life; he has an incredible wealth of stories. You could take what he says and not have to edit very much. He becomes a storyteller and they are masterpieces; that's where the songs come from.

From The Woodstock Times, Vol. 14, no. 13, March 28, 1985, by Ruth Albert Spencer

BTW, has anyone heard if there will be any new dates with Garth and Burrito Deluxe? What about the group, Garth Hudson and A Different Band, featuring Maud? Is that still going to happen?

Entered at Tue Jun 3 22:47:35 CEST 2003 from tc-lig92-08.ligtel.com (207.40.92.8)

degil

Subject: watkins glen 2

live @ watkins glen 2003 the allman bros the dead the band i need tickets

Entered at Tue Jun 3 22:38:59 CEST 2003 from tc-lig92-08.ligtel.com (207.40.92.8)

Degil

Subject: playin

The only way to end this rift is for the remaining members to end it. I am a huge fan of levon but as someone said earlier of a conversation between robbie and levon shortly before levon's book, about them playing sometime. well what are they waiting for i'm sure the driving force of robbie, levon, and garth are the perfect ingredients to any band. i'd be happy to play piano and know plenty of great bass players so have them get in touch for the tour.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 22:39:15 CEST 2003 from schltns-3.demon.nl (212.238.196.9)

Ragtime

Entered at Tue Jun 3 22:18:07 CEST 2003 from 1cust218.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (65.229.112.218)

Judge Judy

Subject: Crude RR Comments

Dale: You should have quit BEFORE YOU STARTED as you have made some of the most crude and asinine comments regarding Robbie that have ever been posted in this Guest Book. You're just lucky that the majority of GB posters happen to be pro smiley little Levon or you'd have been embarrassed out of here by now (assuming you could be embarrassed at all which is giving you the benefit of the doubt). And btw I'd say the crumbling is on your end not mine and no doubt first began a long long time ago.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 22:08:16 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Hence, the Feud. And the world will continue to turn.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 21:59:04 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Dale: Nope. Although it's true that I didn't take the time to read your entire post, I did read that Paul Simon line - how true. Come to think of it, isn't it odd that although it's thought of as an S&G song, G's only contribution was singing "lie lie lie"?

Entered at Tue Jun 3 21:57:38 CEST 2003 from sttn-sh10-port168.snet.net (204.60.207.168)

Todd Atkinson

Subject: Levon on SNL

John Cass: Levon & the RCO All Stars did "Sing, Sing, Sing" and "Ain't That a Lot of Love" on the SNL rebroadcast last Friday. Dr. John sang the lead on "Sing, Sing,Sing" and Levon sang lead on "Ain't That a Lot of Love" Paul Butterfield played harp on both songs. For all you drummers, it looked like Levon's snare was the infamous wood rimmed one. :-)

The performances were very good, but to my ears the sound was a little muddy, and not mixed very well. Additionally, video from the 1970's just doesn't look great. I think that the DVD remaster of The Last Waltz from the same era has spoiled me, with its rich image quality and pristine sound.

Still, I'm glad that I got to see it. It was a funky good time. I'm sure they'll play it again.

Now, it I could only see TNTDODD from SNL. That would be cool!

Entered at Tue Jun 3 21:53:50 CEST 2003 from (12.31.43.109)

bob wigo

I think Lee hit it right on the head (rimshot please ). Those wooden rims were a tailor made fit for the earthy sound of those early Band albums. Levon's sensibilities and intuitive approach to drumming clearly drew him to that sound. A crackling snare or ringing toms would have cut that music and detracted from the overall tone.

Having taken up drumming just a few short years ago I've been listening intently to many different styles. Levon's is virtually impossible to duplicate. His rhythmic interpretations are amazingly unique. A whole new aspect of The Band's music became apparent to me as I tuned into the myriad of fills Levon has in his arsenal. Listen to "Ophelia" from TLW and pay close attention to the countless variations he throws at you. Those fills are beautifully complemented by the tone of his drums. That muted , pillowy sound he achieved was absolutely perfect in relation to the music in front of him. I've long felt it was also a huge part of that "timeless" effect The Band achieved.

Levon has become a matched grip drummer in his later years. He doesn't play those intricate left hand patterns like he did with his traditional grip. The sound he is going for now is one that must and does cut through the music and define the timing a bit more clearly. The blues genre calls for that style and he is more than capable of delivering the goods. Someone here mentioned his sound as compared to Randy Ciarlante's. Having seen them play side by side as recently as last New Year's Eve I can attest there is no difference in the power of either's drumming. Randy is a damn fine drummer in his own right, and with his band can show a bit more ferocity at times but I've seen Levon go around his kit with one hand delivering powerful, rhythmic fills that absolutely nail both the timing and the spirit of the music. Above all of this, I would challenge anyone to play just one of the countless rhythms he is capable of playing while chewing a stick of gum yet alone while singing his goddamned heart out.

Levon was the perfect drummer for the most interesting band of his era. The same case can and should be made for the other four monster talents (and their respective instruments) that comprised The Band.

Barkeep....get my old friend Pat down there at the end of the bar. Put it on my tab.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 21:40:11 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Bill,

You forgot to read this part.

""All lies and jest, still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." - Simon and Garfunkel, The Boxer"

Entered at Tue Jun 3 21:36:44 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Jan: Nice try, but the I comes second in 'sacrilege'.

Dale: I don't buy what I gather your arguments to be. First, I don't think that anyone has claimed that all of Robertson's songs were co-written - so we have to leave him credit for doing at least some of the great ones all on his lonesome. Second, Robertson's solo work falls on its vocals, not its songwriting, which is still magnificent. Parts of the Native Americans CD are powerful almost beyond words - and those parts are sung by others. Closer to 'home' we have, in "Between Trains", an example of a first-rate song written by Robertson for the moving voice of Manuel. I, as do many here, believe that Robertson's 'place' is in the Band - not because they helped him with the songwriting, but because of what their voices (and playing) added.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 21:00:01 CEST 2003 from h-68-164-15-254.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.15.254)

Pat Brennan

I also find the feud tiresome but I still don't mind asking those unanswerable questions. Another good question is why this particular subject keeps coming up. The answer to that one is pretty easy.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 21:30:11 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

D

Judge, Can't you see that I'm having my way with you? I'm feeling a little bad about it though since you seem to be crumbling, so I'll stop now. I must say you were fun while it lasted. If I were you I'd quit while I was behind. Skoal Bro.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 21:27:19 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Jan: I was just being "facetious".

Concerning the "feud" or "rift" -- a small point (please excuse the pun). There's also the issue of publishing shares, which is an entirely different concern than just who wrote what. Publishing was reportedly one of the divisive issues that led to Dylan breaking away from Albert Grossman.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 21:08:24 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Peter. I think your most important argument was when you wrote," No one stating Levon’s case can get past Robbie’s point that Levon has written next to nothing in the 25 years since, or in the 15 years before. Levon as a collaborator?". The only thing is you proved Levon's point, not Robbie's. Although Robbie has always written songs, please name anything that even comes close to what came out of his Band experience. If you agree that his best writing was done during his years with The Band, then you also need to agree that the Band had a lot to do with said writing. Was it Osmosis? Just influential maybe? I think not. Just because the man maniacally wrote everything down as they sat and discussed and jammed and partied, that doesn't mean he is responsible for the words. Or the melodies for that matter. Some people like Levon Helm and Rick Danko are constantly spouting gems and pure art as they speak and play. You know these people. We all know them. They are extremely rare but are always interesting to listen to. They tell stories and embellish them to our delight. They have catch phrases and keep us entertained just by talking to them. Everything they say seems like something from a book. Even the most boring little rehashes come out like a riveting short story. I can just imagine Robbie maniacally writing down lyrics after even light conversations with Levon and the rest of the Band. Then of course holding it up to the light afterwards and saying, "Look what I've done". You can not diminish this influence by saying, "Hey, Robbie wrote it down on HIS pad." Sure, he added his own accents and inflections, but I guarantee the Rue, as they call it in New Orleans, came straight out of Levon's tales. Frank Zappa might have called it the "Crux of the Biscuit". It ain't Jumbo without the Rue. So looking at it from that standpoint, I can see that Robbie can say he wrote the tunes, because he did. Some transcribed and some original. But where did his ideas come from. How come his greatest work came out of hanging with the Band? You can look at it from two different angles and get two different answers. But in the end, what's fair? Really. What is Fair? I think Levon and The Band added so much flair to Robbie's world that they contributed gobs and gobs of material. Robbie was a writer though and snagged the fish that otherwise might have gotten away. Levon might not have had the time, patience or concern to write any of this down because he was just being Levon going about his day. And Rick was just being Rick. And Richard was just being Richard. And Garth was just being Garth. But since Robbie did in fact use this genius in his writings, then let's give credit where credit is due. Again, between brothers, What is Fair? What is "Lookin' at each other in the eyes" Fair? Brothers fight. No doubt about that. But true brothers also die for one another if the need is there. So what that the stuff might have been lost if Robbie didn't write it down. So what that Robbie took what he had heard and changed it and molded it with his own genius. Nobody is doubting that Robbie did that. It's just that the "Crux of that Biscuit was the Apostrophe". The Rue of that Gumbo was Levon and The Band. That, my friend is the point of this whole Feud. And depending on which side you are on, it looks exactly the way you want to see it. Let me quote Simon and Garfunkel once again.

""All lies and jest, still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." - Simon and Garfunkel, The Boxer"

So where do we go from here? This is not something that can be really viewed properly in the courts. It's not so black and white as the courts have to be. It's all muddied up. It's all gray and convoluted. That is why we all have such a problem discussing it. Because there is no Right(Write) or Wrong. It's about what really happened so many years ago and about what is true and right and good and real between five people that obviously all contributed to these songs. How do you figure it out? How do you go back in time and dissect something that was forgotten a week after it happened. Who can really go back and find records of everything that was discussed on one or many very glorious days or years when all five geniuses where buzzing with talent and art. Pure Art. Fantastic Art. Like Michael Angelo Art. Just gushing out like a flood. So what happens "After the Flood". Well, I'll tell you. We all mop up and go on our way. But for one man to take all the credit for something that obviously came out of a five person team is amazingly arrogant to say the least. Again, if Robbie didn't take that art and mold it and add his own influence, it may never have been recorded. But you can never discount where it originated. And if you even try, then how can you explain that Robbie also has done nothing comparable before or after. If it's true about Levon, then it's true about Robbie. Robbie has done nothing that even comes close to those masterpieces that came out of the Band's collaboration. I Will say he was the best Executive Assistant in the history of the world. But many times the Secretaries in the great companies do a lot of the finishing and never get credit for it. I just feel this Secretary is trying to take all the credit when The Boss is the one who originally dictated the letter. 'Nuff said.

"When I Paint My Masterpiece"

Oh, the streets of Rome are filled with rubble,

ancient footprints are everywhere.

You could almost think that your seeing double,

On the cold, dark night on the Spanish Stairs.

Gotta hurry on back to my hotel room,

Where I got me a date with a pretty little girl from Greece.

She promised she'd be there with me,

When I paint my masterpiece.

Oh, the hours we spent, inside the Coliseum.

Dodging lions, and a-wasting time,

oh those mighty kings of the jungle, I could hardly stand to see'em

Yes it sure has been a long, hard drive.

Train wheels a-running thru the back of my memory,

When I ran on a hilltop following a pack of wild geese,

Someday everything is gonna sound like a rhapsody

When I paint my masterpiece.

Sailing round the world in a dirty gondola,

Oh to be back in the land of, Coca-cola.

Well I left Rome, and landed in Brussels,

On a plane ride so bumby that I almost cried,

Clergy men in uniform, and young girls pulling mussels,

Everyone was there to greet me when I stepped inside,

Newspaper men eating candy,

Had to be held down by big police.

Someday, its gonna be different,

When I paint my masterpiece.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 20:49:48 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

Ben Pike

Yep, that "after the flood" live version of "Stagefright" really smokes, it's the best one.

Re: the fued, maybe one possible reason Levon tries to take credit for songs he had nothing to do with writing is not his fault; but rather the traditonal and unresolved sloth of the white southerner? After all, they had the whole south built for them on the backs of slave labor and they still go to absurd lengths trying to distance themselves from the impact of this outrage on their history. All the well deserved praise Levon has gotten for his talent simply wasn't good enough, someone else could not be allowed their honest due. It's seems sort of a pattern.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 20:49:59 CEST 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Bones

Was Levon on the show last night? Or was he poking fun at Anton since they were playing a Band song? Butch, where are you?

Entered at Tue Jun 3 20:43:14 CEST 2003 from c143wn2.wifi.halden.net (194.69.211.143)

jh

Sacreligous? The puzzle is harder in my language, as we have three more vocals (æ, ø and å).

Entered at Tue Jun 3 20:38:53 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Perhaps Levon quit using the wood-rimmed Ludwigs because, not only are they old & fragile, but their sound is less suited for the type music he is playing now.

From the word puzzle department: Name an English word that contains all the vowels in alphabetical order.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 20:35:22 CEST 2003 from c143wn2.wifi.halden.net (194.69.211.143)

jh

"Judge",

Please take your trolling somewhere else. There's been enough bad vibes in here lately. Thank you.

(The use of the word "trolling" comes from the fishing technique where a baited hook is dragged through the water, in an attempt to attract and catch a fish. Internet/Usenet trolling is the act of posting an article, or "troll" (baited hook) in a discussion group (the water) with the intention of attracting the native inhabitants (groupers) and provoking an emotional response (caught!). The phrase was originally coined as "Trolling for flames", where the posters intention was to incite a "flame war", the net intellectual equivalent of a bar fight.)

Entered at Tue Jun 3 20:32:10 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Wasn't there a Carl Carlton who had a pop hit on Pye in the early '70s? And would that be THE Ian MacLagan on the album - finally providing a more direct link between the Small Faces and the Band?

Entered at Tue Jun 3 19:54:44 CEST 2003 from 1cust104.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.104)

Judge Judy

Subject: Miscomprehension

Dale: You are obviously too dumb to realize that I included the parenthetical "(inciteful?)" as a wordplay to imply that your crude comments regarding Robbie were intended to "incite" the Robertsonian faction of Band fans rather than to question my own spelling of the word "insightful." You also misconstrue me as a "fan" of yours when I am exactly the opposite as I'm sure the rest of the Guest Book readers fully realize. I suggest you buy a dictionary and look up the word "facetious" which is what I was being when I referred to your comments as "intelligent." I keep a copy of Webster's handy right next to my computer and as I posted yesterday I came across the work "jerk" while thumbing through it the other morning and your name was under it.."

BTW I guess no on can tell me why Levon stopped using that wood rimmed drum kit everyone including himself raves about so much for their "warmth." Was his desire to shift to a "colder" sound?

Entered at Tue Jun 3 19:34:37 CEST 2003 from 0-1pool31-234.nas3.oakland1.ca.us.da.qwest.net (65.139.31.234)

Sam

So what's your point Woody?

And you'll be back all right. You guys always come back. Not only will you be back, but you'll check the GB many times a day to see what kind of reaction your pointless diatribe received. They say people who work with the emotionally disturbed oftentimes do so in an effort to understand themselves. See you in a couple of minutes...

Entered at Tue Jun 3 19:22:42 CEST 2003 from plantlogic.com (209.195.208.11)

bassmanlee

Well I'm not a drummer, but some of my best friends have been drummers. ;-) Even though being a bass player means you pay attention to the drums a lot when you are playing, I would surely flunk a blindfold test, with a few notable exceptions, and BAND-era Levon Helm would probably be one of them. Certainly the "Band drum sound", a composite of Levon and Richard is a palpable concept. On record it has a lot to do with both sonic texture - those loose heads, wooden rims, etc. - and looseness of feel, with Ricky goosing them about by playing ahead and behind the beat. Live performance is a different kettle of fish, as the situation calls for more projection from the kit - hence the switch to steel rims and a more conventional sound? Even so the drums of Rock of Ages, TLW, and Before the Flood are distinctly "Band drums". (BTW today you can play onstage with wooden rims - check out Susan Tedeschi's drummer's kit if you can. Of course micing drums has come a long way...)

These days Levon plays in a totally different genre, and his style has evolved accordingly, to the point of changing his grip. (Back me up here, Bob.) The Big Pink/Brown drum sound would be out of place and probably buried by the BB's or any contemporary blues band.

And speaking of the Band, spun both Before the Flood and Basement Tapes yesterday. Sadly most of my listening is done at work, but some tunes just jump up and demand attention. On Flood, Stage Fright, with it's demented twists and fills matching Rick's in-character vocals made me sit up. So did Bob's tour-de-force It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding). Billy Bragg eat your heart out. The Basement Tapes have always been a puzzle to me, as I came to them late. I finally see what all the fuss over OJ Blluess is about, and Don't Ya Tell Henry is a gem. Contrasting the sound and feel of BT vs. Blonde on Blonde (currently spinning) is an interesting exercise...

Entered at Tue Jun 3 19:20:12 CEST 2003 from citrix5.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.9)

John Cass

Subject: Levon

did anybody watch the SNL from last Friday of Levon Helm & RCO Allstars????.... if so how was it I missed it and was wondering what tunes they did...

would love to meet up with some GBer's next Thursday night (6-12)to catch Levon & Last Hombres at the Rodeo Bar in NYC.... me and some friends will be seeing hopefully a Yankee loss that afternoon and then will be at the show that night swilling some beers and having fun!!

Entered at Tue Jun 3 19:09:46 CEST 2003 from 249.ppp132.rsd.worldonline.se (213.204.132.249)

Woodlark

Entered at Tue Jun 3 19:04:58 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Subject: My Biggest Fan

Well Thank You Judge. I am quite honored that you think so highly of me actually...you being a judge and all. By the way, the word is "insightful". You should try Spellcheck. It is quite apparent from your posts that you idolize me and are making a futile effort to mimic my style. Very sad. You should try and do something original, but if you would like some more intelligent tidbits just let me know and I will happily oblige. You did forget to include the link to the tattoo so I will do that for you. Looks like there's hope for you yet. Now I will add some lyrics to a song that would probably do you some good right now. Rick Danko used to play this one and Diamond Lil was very gracious to post these. Think about them.

"Goin' Back to Alabama"

I'm goin back to Alabama

Now that I learned a thing or two

Life for me ain't been that easy

But I got alot of livin left to do

A man who walks by the side of the road

Can turn himself around

He can pick himself up, dust himself off

And start all over again

My friend..

Sometimes I find it hard to get up in the morning

My friends and my family are down on me

No they never seem to see where I am going

No they never seem to see the man I see

And some folks call me a dreamer

While others may laugh and call me a fool

When all that I wanted to be was a winner

Cause I know that a winner can never lose

A man who walks by the side of the road

Can turn himself around

He can pick himself up, and dust himself off

And start all over again

My friend...

And lastly I will leave one of the best lyrics of all time. I think we should all read these and realize what they mean in all of our lives. I know...It's hard sometimes. Have a good one Bro

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." - The Beatles, The End

http://rockwisdom.com/dbcategories/dbcat1.asp

Entered at Tue Jun 3 18:25:35 CEST 2003 from 1cust104.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.104)

Judge Judy

Subject: "Dale / D's" Intelligent Guest Book Contributions

Dale: Your intelligent and insightful (inciteful?) comments and perceptive comprehension in here (samples cited below) are truly like a beacon of light on a sea of darkness. I wish I could write as well. Keep them coming!

"It's not so much about the money alone, but about how a man can stab his brothers in the back and walk away with people calling him a hero, not to mention tattooing the creep onto their bodies. I would think a knife dripping blood should be added right next to the word "Robbie".

"Hey, what's with all the anger? I think when you cut to the chase and put it all in a nutshell, what Judge Judy is really trying to say is that Robbie is a low life, cheating scumbag who sucker punches people when he can and runs away and hides with all the cash when he can't."

Entered at Tue Jun 3 18:19:05 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

Loz roz (who cares) well maybe Loz

"Every day your mem'ry grows dimmer
Clouds drift away sunshine peeps thru
Every night no longer you haunt me
My conscience is clean
How about you ?

-J. Anglin -

Neat Bluegrass David.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 17:43:37 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Subject: Johnnie & Jack

loz: I'd much rather talk about Johnnie & Jack than beat a dead horse, or drive a Ford Mustang, for that matter. A D.J. friend of mine turned me on to those guys a while back -- they're a shamefully neglected group in country music circles nowadays.

Johnnie Wright and Jack Anglin started out playing in the late '30s. They formed a group that was way ahead of the times, combining bluegrass harmonies with driving rhythms that incorporated Latin beats. Where many bluegrass groups featured brothers singing close harmonies, Johnnie & Jack were actually brothers-in-law. Their band, originally called the Tennessee Hillbillies, later changed their name to the more politically correct Tennessee Mountain Boys at the insistance of the powers-to-be at the Grand Ole Opry. Johnnie's wife, singer Muriel Deason, became a member of the group. Her husband later suggested that she change her name, and when she achieved tremendous success as Kitty Wells, she embarked on a solo career. At one time, a young guitarist named Chet Atkins was a member of the Mountain Boys.

The group's use of electric instruments and rhumba beats using drums & maraccas proved to be a little too wild for the Opry stage, but delighted audiences everywhere they played, especially on live radio broadcasts throughout the South, such as the Louisiana Hayride. In addition to "(Down) South in New Orleans", Johnnie & Jack penned many country classics, incuding "Cryin' Heart Blues", "Ashes of Love", "Stop the World (And Let Me Off)", "Goodnight, Sweetheart, Goodnight", "We Live In Two Different Worlds", "Poison Love" (recently covered by Buddy Miller), and many more.

When Kitty Wells hit it big with "It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels", Johnnie & Jack toured together with her and began incorporating R&B influenced songs played in the distinctively hybrid country style of their group.

Johnnie & Jack continued to tour successfully into the early '60s. Sadly, Jack Anglin was killed in a car accident while riding to the funeral of Patsy Cline.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 17:19:31 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

John D mentioned Roberta Richards visiting Toronto whenever Mose Scarlett plays. So maybe she'll be in town on June 21 when Scarlett, Washington & Whiteley play Hugh's Room at Bloor and Dundas West. Scarlett has a super-deep voice that he employed most effectively in a duet with deep-voiced Amos Garrett at the same club last year. Washington is Jackie Washington, an aging and engaging troubadour whose first album was produced by Daniel Lanois. Ken Whiteley too has recorded lots and lots with Daniel Lanois - also Colin Linden, Amos, etc.

Re the writing credits appropriated by Hawkins and the Hawks, I'd be very surprised if they really had a say in how the credits were shown (that is, they were in a room with a mobster who said, 'sign here'), and even more surprised if they saw any money for anything other than personal appearances.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 16:56:57 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

roz

Come back to The Five and Dime Tennessee Tennessee....... and bring The Tiny Monster and Rich from the UK with ya.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 16:18:23 CEST 2003 from node18827.a2000.nl (24.132.136.39)

emanuel

Subject: levons a secret drum hero

I've been reading a bit of the stuff on the GB since it reopened a couple of days ago. Lots of personal stuff on the band members and their supposed attitudes from hell. It made me wonder,: since a couple of you seem to know the members somewhat more personal, do they themselves ever read or participate on this GB? and if so ...did anybody ever dare to ask how they feel on the matter, and the fact that it really is a hot topic on this GB? and eventhough I'm aware that I'm a little late to comment on it, I'd still like to tell Judy that for a lot of drummers Levon Helm is considered on the same list as people like Steve Gadd, Jim Keltner, Charlie Watts and mitch mitchell. these people (apart from Mitchell maybe)are know for their "underplaying". one of the things I saw Levon do, is play a shuffle hi- hat pattern over a straight backbeat. the wheight is played that way. I learned that from him. Levon is not a technique virtuoso but he has a lot of taste. and is able to put feeling in his playing in a very special way. come to think of it... robbies playing is actually pretty similar. not a vituoso but knows how put feeling in it... sigh....

Entered at Tue Jun 3 16:01:07 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

The guestbook is never happier than when this fued deal comes up. Everyone says "No ! No ! No ! Not This Dead horse Again!" and then commences to throw in a few more. Reminds me of that store owner in "Taxi Driver" beating that dead black kid with a baseball bat.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 15:56:29 CEST 2003 from (207.40.92.8)

Degil

Subject: Song Writing

Just my input on songwriting credits, I have written many songs with and without my band and just because someone adds a scale or comes up with a strange effect doesn't mean they helped write the song. I have and will continue to give credit where credit is due, but it's true that many just can't write a song. This is not to add to the fued, because I feel that reality broke up the Band and we all know we wish it could have lasted forever. There are probably only two bands that ever lasted through drug abuse and the changing of music tastes but today there exists just as many great rock and roll acts as in the heyday but unfortunately you have to see them in small clubs and summer fests.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 14:35:32 CEST 2003 from 81-6-240-199.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk (81.6.240.199)

loz

Subject: down south in new orleans

hi, hope i'm not interrupting the feud debate here, but i was wondering if anyone could tell me why there's a complete absence of any lyrics to (or even information about) down south in new orleans from the last waltz audio with bobby charles online. i think it sounds great and i woulda loved to have seen the video to go along with it.. anyway if anyone could tell me a bit about johnnie and jack whose song i think it is originally, i'd be grateful

Entered at Tue Jun 3 12:18:29 CEST 2003 from mcha-ab035.taconic.net (205.231.148.130)

Lil

Entered at Tue Jun 3 10:32:09 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-026.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.26)

Peter Viney

See BEG's comment. Maybe if enough of us put out the welcome Mat, BWNWIT will feel; happier about returning.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 10:21:55 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-026.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.26)

Peter Viney

I’ve no doubt that five people collaborated on the arrangment of King Harvest. But the lyric comes from the same individual well as most classic Band songs. And the story and setting continues in Storyville. No one stating Levon’s case can get past Robbie’s point that Levon has written next to nothing in the 25 years since, or in the 15 years before. Levon as a collaborator? (And this is not knocking, believe me). Well, his credits are stuff like “Big love In A Small town” on “Staying together” (Szelest-Helm-Branin- Weider- Ciarlante – Campbell- Fullin) , and the only songs with that many credits are jams or generic plodders. Or they’re like “Don’t Wait”, credited to “Kevin Doherty / Levon Helm & The Band”. Interesting that one, re-read it noting the slash. So “Levon Helm & The Band” as an entity took half I’d assume. Having heard Four Men and A Dog’s output, this is a typical and characteristic (and great) Kevin Doherty melody and lyric. Sounds suspiciously like an Alan Freed or Elvis Presley co-credit to me (Come here, young man, I’d like to record your song … but …). Levon’s strained voice and interpretation adds greatly to the experience of the song, which no would deny. But did he really co-write it?

Levon’s first credit is on “You Cheated, You Lied” which was a song “borrowed” from The Shields by Ronnie Hawkins and The Hawks. The Shields had even charted at #12 on the R&B charts with it, but Ronnie & The Hawks did a straightfoward steal and Levon’s name was put on it. This persisted to the point where The Shangri-Las credit their version to “L. Helm” in 1965, and Greil Marcus was fooled into mentioning Levon’s greater success with this song than with The Weight in a 1968 Rolling Stone piece. Clearly the 1959 Ronnie Hawkins and The Hawks thought that re-arranging a black hit entitled them to at least co-writing credit, if not taking the whole thing. So ‘lyric collaboration’ like changing ‘thirty’ to ‘forty’ entitled them to have Chuck Berry’s money.

I believe that Robbie’s “Levon confused writing songs and being in a group” is true, and I do think from all the evidence that Levon has confused arrangment with writing, which is not rare because about half the people posting on the subject make the same basic error. In Levon’s case, I suspect the underlying attitude to song writing would have been set in the days of Ronnie Hawkins and The Hawks, where if you wrote something, the manager (or his girlfriend), or the lead singer /bandleader took half the royalty. If you lifted something from a black artist, you felt your arrangment was worth a fair writing credit. Note that Robbie, Rick, Richard and Garth arrived somewhat later. Robbie wrote two songs on the same album before joining The Hawks.

Bruce – I have written in collaboration and not, including lyrics, with several people. I work on books either solo or as a two-way collaboration. When we do videos, you are involved in a creative process with directors, camera crew, and actors. I’ve done series of videos with the same actors. The first one you write before you cast. The second series you’re writing to the known strengths of the actors. Of course the actor develops the character, but the gap between writing and acting is perceived and accepted. Very often an actor who’s used to a character will suggest new or changed lines. Again, this is not considered co-writing by anyone. This is not very different from writing for a band in terms of sharing.

In general, some things benefit from collaboration. Film and TV scripts almost always do. Text books definitely. Songs too, but there are two routes, including the classic lyrics / music split. Most “literature” in the sense of poetry or novels doesn’t work as a collaboration. Plays are usually solo, but I’ve seen a lot that would benefit from scriptwriter style collaboration! In most collaborative songs, one person is largely responsible for the lyric, even when they take it in turns to do it.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 08:36:43 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

D

Again Judge, you are your own worst enemy and not doing Robbie any favors since everyone on this board is laughing at you. Keep it up though. You gain more Levon converts every time you post.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 07:40:01 CEST 2003 from 1cust220.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.220)

Judge Judy

Subject: Drum kits and collaboration

If Levon had such a characteristically warm sound with that wood hoop drum kit how come he stopped using them? Good question, right? BTW I agree that his playing does have a "boom, boom, boom" sound most of the time. As for five people collaborating to write King Harvest it seems a bit far fetched. I don't think any 5 people could write any song. It would just never get finished. Robbie does have the writing credit on that one for words and music and it sounds like his soft whispery style to my ears.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 07:22:35 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Ben Pike

Mikey Most certainly deserves credit for producing the best of Donovan's stuff; which dispite his famous Dylan dissing, hold up as some of the great rock/pop singles ever. (Sunshine Superman, Season of The Witch, etc.)

Entered at Tue Jun 3 07:00:28 CEST 2003 from cpe-65-25-199-100.mn.rr.com (65.25.199.100)

Dave Z

Hey Tracy, you're right... I don't do sad & serious too well... I'll have to set myself crooked again... and btw, where is that Catbalu too... I lost her frybread recipe... and her email address... been so long, I thought I had just imagined her...

Entered at Tue Jun 3 06:25:31 CEST 2003 from dialup-67.73.144.248.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.73.144.248)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Tue Jun 3 06:24:04 CEST 2003 from wc12.mtnk.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.84.207)

John D

Wow BEG.........hardly anyone remembers that Ben Fong Torres paragraph. You do.....do your research! I remember the day he called me. He didn't know anything about where the members of the Band were from. Told him about Stratford, London, Simcoe etc. Don't believe he put any of that in. Then he called me a Dylan Freak. Didn't like that much at the time; but it was fun talking to a guy from Rolling Stone. Thanks to Roberta Richards I got to meet Bob for the first time after the first night of the Toronto Tour '74 show. I still have a picture of Bob, Roberta and myself. BEG....Roberta was a great manager......booker for talent. She knew Bob; because she managed Leon Redbone at the time and you will remember that Bob was going to produce him. Never worked out though. Roberta still sneaks into town to see Mose Scarlet anytime he appears.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 06:15:46 CEST 2003 from dialup-67.73.144.248.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.73.144.248)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Tue Jun 3 06:10:42 CEST 2003 from 01-170.006.popsite.net (66.248.85.170)

Bruce M

Subject: Collaboration

Peter,

I was reading your piece,"King Harvest (Has Surely Come)" and noticed you included the following Levon quote"

Levon Helm:

"Some of the lyrics came out of a discussion we had one night about the times we’d seen and all had in common. It was an expression of feeling that came from five people. The group wanted to do one song that took in everything we could muster about life at that moment in time. It was the last thing we cut in California, and it was that magical feeling of ‘King Harvest’ that pulled us through. It was like, there, that’s The Band."

Do you honestly feel that The Band did not collaborate on the song writing? Do you not feel that song discussion or a conversation about lyrics count as writing? Have you honestly ever tried to write song lyrics, and does being a teacher and author qualify you to do so? Do you agree that writing literature and writing song lyrics are a totally different process? I really mean you no offence here as I am very interested in your take on this subject. Thank you in advance.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 06:10:20 CEST 2003 from dialup-67.73.144.248.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.73.144.248)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Tue Jun 3 05:49:02 CEST 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3612968.sympatico.ca (65.93.194.81)

brown eyed girl

Robbie on Drumming in Rolling Stone 1971...

Howard Gladstone: On a lot of songs you switch instruments. On "Caledonia Mission", for example, doesn't Levon go to acoustic guitar and Richard to drums? You recorded it that way, I guess?

Robbie: Yeah. On the new album, Richard plays drums on about half the songs. Not that he's a drummer at all, but it gives it a loose floppy feeling. You can tell the two styles very distinctly. Levon plays very fat, you know - boom, boom, boom - while Richard sounds very chunk, chunk, chunck. It's much higher sounding. It's an interesting thing to have two people do that. You can change your rhythm, it isn't always the same person doing the same thing. We switch instruments just to take some of the staleness out of it.

Howard Gladstone: What do you think of the Byrds?

Robbie: They're all right, I guess. Sometimes they do something nice, mostly bad.

Howard Gladstone: What do you think about Procul Harum? They have the same instrumentation as you, and on a few songs there is a similarity between both groups.

Robbie: Right, right, it's true. The only thing that I really know about them is that "Whiter Shade Of Pale". Their whole thing to me sounds like Percy Sledge, "When A Man Loves A Woman", for ever and ever and ever. I've heard vaguely a few records by them, and they're still singing that same song. I don't know why they want to do that. Whatever the similarity, I must say we'e not conscious of it. We've had organ and piano for ten years. I don't know how long they've had it (The Pat Brennan would know...;-D). We got ours from gospel music. That doesn't have much to do with Procul Harum.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 05:40:17 CEST 2003 from xtreme-1-138.dyn.aci.on.ca (69.17.160.138)

Rudiment

I have to admit he or she pulled me in with the primitive comments about Levon. I am going to ignore everything the BENCH writes.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 05:33:33 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou sam

Pat = great post.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 05:27:04 CEST 2003 from dialup-67.73.144.248.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.73.144.248)

Pat Brennan

It seems to me that two different subjects get jumbled together here: songwriting credits and 1983. A lot of you believe Levon's book while others believe Robertson's view. I would rather view what was said at the time. The Hawk hired Robertson in part because he showed an ability to write songs. Before there was The Band, there were solo Robertson songwriting credits. When The Band happened, Robertson was continually referenced as the group's main songwriter, even though Richard and Rick both claimed songwriting credits. If you wade through the articles on site here, Robertson is consistently called the chief songwriter of the group. I can only assume that the other members of the group saw these references or heard these references. Richard as far as I can tell never addressed the songwriting debate, no doubt because he too was a songwriter. Garth has flatly stated that he sees no debate as to Robertson's and Richard's and Rick's--and Levon's for that matter--songwriting credits. Rick has contradicted himself, but his actions show that he claimed songwriting credits apart from the group. He wrote and recorded 18 songs in his post-Band career, most of them co-writes with other writers. Levon never addressed any of these concerns until the Fall of 1983. In the Spring of that year, Levon was highly complimentary of Robertson and said that Hollywood was a good place for a man of his musical skills to be. By the Fall of 1983 however, Levon was upset with Robertson. Others here have hinted at the loggerhead over the use of the name "The Band" for the reunited group. There was some kind of lawsuit which was evidently resolved. It resulted in extremely hard feelings between Levon, to a lesser extent Rick, and Robertson. Robertson continued to write songs, filling four albums with material and co-writing with others. Richard continued to wrestle with his writer's block, and Levon has written very little.

The Bearsville Studio deal is certainly interesting, but even in my fairly remote position I've heard any number of versions of it. Since none of the group members publicly commented on it at the time, and since the details are foggy at best, I myself find it hard to apply it to even a slightly factual discussion of the good old days.

Musically, I admire both Levon and Robertson greatly. I also find Garth Hudson to be an absolute genius. I greatly admire Rick both as a singer and bassist. I loved Richard. I find posters who call any of these musicians disparaging names ill-mannered.

And in a moment of self-engrandisement, I'll be appearing on Ira Glass' NPR radio show "This American Life" next Saturday as a member of Jon Langford's group. Yeah, Richard, I know, Christgau's buddy. Anyway, it's a taped broadcast but I won't be listening; I'll be near Brandy Station, Virginia celebrating the 140th anniversery of the Civil War's largest cavalry battle. First things first.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 05:18:52 CEST 2003 from 1cust25.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.25)

Judge Judy

Subject: Bands

Mike: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to lump your band (which is obviously composed of semi-saints) in with the groupie, drug, and alcohol crazed Ronnie Hawkins and his like. However, if Levon wasn't in it for the money how come he's constantly and relentlessly griping about not getting enough? Huh? Answer that one if you can.

As for Levon's socalled drum contributions to Band songs I think that Robbie's basic musical and lyrical compositions sort of dictate what the others would play. I think there's a passage in that Great Divide book where Robbie explains that he saw his role as sort of a musical director in the studio helping the others to flesh out the songs he composed both vocally and with their instruments. You should read that book if you haven't or read it and forgotten what was in it.

Also, I think everyone should ignore posts telling other people to ignore someone else's posts. Most rude.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 05:12:22 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

D

Judge,

I don't even need to flame you. You flame yourself every time you post.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 05:08:12 CEST 2003 from tnt-77-85.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.85)

Tracy

Okay, for this subject, I think I can identify with it seeing as though I am one. Levon's style is definitely noticable on Band records. Although, I will never understand why they needed two later on. His style is a very dry, warm sound. Gretsch kits are known for their deeper resonance and that's perhaps why a lot of Jazz players use them. Levon's use with the wood hoops made it all the more darker and richer. He later switched to the versatile Ludwigs before moving on to Yamaha. I wouldn't put any maxi pad to muffle my kit though. That's his thing. I personally like my drums to have a little more punch to them and a crisp sounding snare. I don't like flat drums. I have a friend who says he thinks Don Henley and Levon Helm have a very similar style, then again they were both originally singing drummers.

No matter how much people try to dismiss The Last Waltz, you can't help but notice the difference in the DVD where a bunch of the musicians are jamming and Ringo and Levon are at their own kits. You can distinctly tell Ringo's playing from Levon's. A lot of different drummers had their own sound.

I'm still fascinated how in The Grateful Dead and Allman Brothers two drummers could work together so well. Although in both cases one stayed with a kit and the other did percussion (timbales, congas, etc.)

Unfortunately, a lot of drummers now a days just sound the same to me. I don't really listen to newer artists unless they sound unlike anybody else. I have a tendency to point out to people while I'm sitting in the car of somebody's style. You know the sound of Metallica's playing because of Lars Ulrich. Larry Mullen Jr. from U2 has sort of a military style with the snare. Roger Taylor in Queen with that snappy hi-hat and snare. Who can forget Bonham with his big sound and equally large kits. They're all identifiable. Can you name drummers with a particular signature style? You know, if you start taking up a specific instrument, chances are you're going to hear something that makes that artist sound what it is and nobody can take that away. Every drummer whether you like them or not has their own sound or else the band they're in doesn't have 'that' sound.

I went to The Modern Drummers Festival in N.J. two weeks ago. Talk about a drummers dream! I'm truly planning on going to the Drummers Acheivement Awards in September to see Steve Gadd get honored at Berklee. Talk about a man with feel and he makes it look so easy.

Tracy

Entered at Tue Jun 3 03:53:34 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

It should of been obvious from the get go that Judge Judy is simply attempting to enrage people. And he or she is probably getting a orgasmic reaction every time one of us retorts. It was obvious to me, but I answered once anyway. Obviously this is a person with a serious grudge against Levon. Who or why,real or imagined, there is no way for us to know. Why don't we all just ignore this person, let him or her find some other way to get off.

Mike, Jamie, I am happy for you that you have a creative outlet and environment that you are able to thrive in. Keep it going.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 03:41:23 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Jamie

Isn't Judge Judy that old, snobby, ugly daytime TV nerd?

Entered at Tue Jun 3 03:36:12 CEST 2003 from pcp02099924pcs.towson01.md.comcast.net (68.34.124.56)

Mike

Subject: The meaning of being in a band

Judy-

I really have no problem with you feeling the way you do but for you to completely shoot down what I say, I think that is a bit unfair of you. I've been playing music with my best friend for the past 4 years now. And the other two members of my band for the past two. None of us are in it for anything other than the love of playing music in front of people. We don't make any money because there is no scene for bands playing original music here in Baltimore. It sure isn’t for the women, and definitely not for the drugs, considering I’ve never touched anything other than an occasionally beer. The reason that I play music with my band is because I love it. I love sitting down with my best friends and writing songs, rehearsing, and most importantly, playing music for people that come to see us, people that enjoy our music. I feel bad for musicians that let other things take over there music. Groups that "sell out" to make more money, groups that are just in it for the sex and the drugs. That is not what it should be about. Maybe it has been in the past but I don’t think it was the case with The Band and it is certainly not the case with me. Maybe me and my fellow band mates are rare. Since you said you don't play any instruments, I’m guessing you can't understand how I feel.

I still have to disagree that Levon's presence in The Band made some of those songs great, how can you tell me that the beats he laid down on 'King Harvest' 'The Shape I'm in' and 'Life is a Carnival' did not make those songs amazing. I think you need to stop and actual listen to the songs, instead of your own voice.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 03:31:58 CEST 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3612968.sympatico.ca (65.93.194.81)

brown eyed girl

In Toronto, before the first of the two shows there, I call on CHUM and find a Dylan freak named John Donabie, (name in book Donebie) who remembers that Dylan's been in town three times before, twice as a solo artist, around '62 and '63, and, in 1966, with the Hawks, who got huffily dismissed by one local critic as "a third - rate Toronto rock and roll band"........"You know", said Donabie, "Hawkins is still playing at the Nickelodeon down on Yonge Street. He's always there - or whenever he wants to play there, anyway. Just about owns the place. You ought to check him out."

"They were always two years ahead of their time. Robbie was the first guy to get into white funk, in Canada or anywhere." Hawkins urged me to stay, see if Levon shows up......Hawkins introduced a special number. "I remember Robbie called it one of Bob's best songs at one time," he said, and moved into a mellow country version of "One Too Many Mornings", one of Dylan's true - love songs, from 1964.

"There was something different about it," he said. Robbie on Watkins Glen: "At Watkins Glen we were playing, and we would do little things, intricate, subtle things that the audience would react to that I'd never seen them react to before. There was an alertness to the audience that I could not believe. And it was also, by far, the nicest of those festivals that we've played."

But even the albums come hard. After "Rock Of Ages", the live set from New Year's Eve at the Academy Of Music, Robertson considered a few soundtrack offers, then decided to do another album of original songs. He'd written a few tunes, he'd said, and the Band began the album; then he shifted into another gear. He'd been listening to the avante-garde classical music of Krzysztof Penderecki.

I bought one of his albums a few years ago because I liked the album cover: It was a guy holding a candle. Very spooky-looking cover. One day I put it on and I thought, My God. That's terrific. I think he is the comtemporary classical writer of this age.

He doesn't just use strings or orchestras. He uses very unorthodox techniques. He uses guitars and 30 men singing at half an octave below their range. It's incredible, what he reaches for, and I like very much the lyrics that he writes and I find his music haunting. Other people's music I can shake off very easily. His music I cannot sluff off like that."

Robertson's own writing, however, is not outwardly changed by his admiration for Penderecki. "Just like you could be influenced by Leadbelly; it doesn't mean you'll write Leadbelly tunes. It just means you like him, but you don't necessarily do anything similar to what he does at all. But Penderecki is who I've listened to to get where I am now, musically."

Entered at Tue Jun 3 02:56:32 CEST 2003 from 1cust25.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.25)

Judge Judy

Subject: Bands

Re: Mike's comment:

"First of all, I don't think you understand the meaning of being in a band. The amount of friendship and love for one another is the most important part of being in band. You don't do it to be famous, or be rich, or meet women."

What bunk! You should tell that to Mick Jagger, Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, KISS, Steve Tyler, Rod Stewart, Ronnie Hawkins, and Levon... the list goes on. You need to read Pamela Des Barres' books or for that matter Levon's. I'd add drugs and booze as incentives to be in a rock band too.

Okay, so maybe a few expert drummers can identify a given drummer by his style but the average or even avid Band fan couldn't in my opinion. And The Band would sound just as good to me with Levon replaced by a metronome. Robbie's guitar lines, Garth's organ, and even Rick's bass are quite identifiable and unique to me and I don't play any of those instruments at all.

Dale: I was thumbing thru Webster's this morning and chanced upon the word "jerk." Your name was under it.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 01:33:46 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

It's been fun thinking back and remembering my first impressions of TLW. I remember watching it with the mindset that this was the Band's farewell - and got the feeling throughout that Robbie was very caught up in the emotion of it all. I thought he even looked like he got teary eyed a few times. The other guys didn't come off that way to me.

Robbie's comments on the state of the Band members at the end are very telling, I think. It seems like he was very frustrated at the time. Maybe in a way, he felt like he was getting "screwed", and let down at the time......I still think that thre's a lot more that Robbie has held on to because it'll do no good to talk about it - and he actually cares about his former mates.

Entered at Tue Jun 3 00:22:56 CEST 2003 from (192.68.30.246)

Adela

To chime in on the Robbie v. Levon thing, even though it might sound cliche I have always felt like it's kind of how you feel when your parents get divorced (geez, as a child of divorce how'd I come up with that one?!?! :-)) It might be ugly, it'll definitely be heartbreaking, and words might be exchanged, but when all is said and done, you still and will always love both of them. I think it's such a complicated story none of us may ever really know what really went down between Robbie and Levon. Levon wrote a book; Robbie didn't. Rick and Garth seemed to not have as big a problem with Robbie as Levon did in later years--what to think of that? There are so many aspects to the story and to their different personalities that can be addressed, it could warrant a separate book just on the subject of "the feud." Are there any volunteers from the GB posters to write it? Not me. (Though it would be the ultimate to be able to write off expenses for trips to Woodstock and Santa Monica to interview Levon and Robbie!!!!!!!!--not to mention Barnburners concerts!!!) Part of me just doesn't want to know because the possibility is that everyone is at fault to some extent. Isn't that always the way? Aren't there 2 sides to every story, 2 persectives? Even when my mom and her sisters fight I just can't take one person's side because YOU NEVER KNOW 100%...

Anyway, I'm fine with my position because I am completely devoted to Levon AND to Robbie... to Rick AND to Richard... don't even get me started about my love for Garth! :-) Thanks to Amanda & that Dave Z guy, for expressing your appreciation for my tattoo pain. It hurt so good, though! And yes, I still crave Garth's touch!!!

Entered at Tue Jun 3 00:08:01 CEST 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

John W.

Great to see about the new Crowmatix Live CD, I can't wait to get it. Those shows at the Bottom Line with the horn section (and Garth) were great, a real tribute to The Band and I'm sure that will come through on this disc!

Nice to read our Bruuuuce is still rockin' and they're lovin' it in the U.K.! Funny to read Al talkin' about this fantastic star from across the ocean, while he sees Macartney as the hometown boy. It's just about the opposite with me. Bruce the quintessential suburban New York blue collar dude, singin' about cars and beers and girls (and what a Band!), he's been so familiar around my hometown since "Hard to Be a Saint In the City", I probably saw them more times than any other band except The Band and possibly the Dead. Meanwhile if I saw McCartney I bet my jaw would drop open like I was in the presence of a god or something. Wonder what it would be like if those 2 ever worked together!

Entered at Mon Jun 2 23:56:09 CEST 2003 from (206.186.13.233)

Serge

Roger, if you can make it at all, try to catch Tchavolo Schmitt. You won't regret it...

Too bad Viney, that you would choose Ivan Morrison over something that you seemingly are not familiar with. Maybe you're afraid that you might like it a lot. IT IS NOT traditional Rrom or Tzigane music. It is hard swinging Jazz guitar groups.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 23:55:47 CEST 2003 from (61.240.164.67)

Richard

Subject: Mickie Most

I understand that Mickie Most passed away a few days ago. I remember his name from producer credits on 60s' Donovan and Jeff Beck albums. According to Alan ("I Love Rock N Roll") Merrill, "many people that shook hands with Mickie Most seem to have pulled back a bloody stump". Perhaps someone in the UK could fill us in on the details of his career.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 23:31:34 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-056.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.56)

Peter Viney

I thought the whole Mike Love - Brian Wilson thing came down to Brian being an easy touch. I mean, having seen Mike Love … I 'm a committed Wilsonite. When you see how Brian always had a collaborator- but every song sounded like Brian. There are a few who seem to need co-writers- Don Henley is another. On which Brian's doing a "Smile" tour in March 2004 where it's said Smile will be played from beginning to end (as if he could remember what the definitive version was). Anyway, I hope to be there, hoping that the hall doesn't burst into flames and we all get drenched by the fire brigade. I won't repeat that old Supergroup joke again, everyone knows it. Sad to say, it's the "Fued" that always "feuls" traffic here (I do take some blame) but at least we're talking about (a) The Band (b) music.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 23:26:22 CEST 2003 from d213-101-94-208.swipnet.se (213.101.94.208)

Carla Malmqvist

Can't write something that you haven't heard before, but your'e the greatest band I have ever heard

Entered at Mon Jun 2 23:22:24 CEST 2003 from 213-48-242-141.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.242.141)

Al Edge

The McCartney gig was wonderful. Those who have seen him on tour will know what was on offer though perhaps not in such an evocative late evening setting as the riverbank of his hometown.

He performed around 20 Beatles songs the pick of which were She's Leaving Home, Two of Us, Can't Buy Me Love, I saw Her Standing There, Long and Winding Road, Let it Be and Hey Jude.

The highlights for me were his tributes to the other three of the fab four. A warm and upbeat 'Something' he performed on George's old ukele with a special George Formby style snatch as an encore to round off that particular tribute. 'Here Today' was arguably the gem of the night, his paen to his teenage friendship with John containing some of the sentiments he felt but had never got the chance to express while John was alive. It was an extremely moving performance, a melody so perfectly suited to Paul's sweet tenor.

Heartfelt tributes then to his old Scouse muckas on the banks of the Mersey. Emotions tugged. Tears flowed. From all present.

They were soon to be wiped away by a mock tribute to the other surviving Beatle with an impromptu Yellow Submarine snatch with which the crowd in raucous harmony threatened to raise the non-existent roof.

From then on it was a typical Liverpool singalong night. Indeed, we could all have been sat in our favourite Liverpool boozer with one of our own on the piano in the corner. Just so happened that tonight it was our Paul.

Not a night for connoisseurs of intricate musical dexterities and fineries perhaps but for us Scousers it was fuckin great like la!

:-o)

Entered at Mon Jun 2 23:18:58 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Curtis Blue

Subject: Discussion, not a Feud

Mr Viney - Which Rick Danko Interview would you like me to believe? He says he wrote "Twilight", Is he not telling the truth? Or is lying like Levon?

Bones - I found your point the best of all, Levon should file Lawsuit, perhaps he will, perhaps

Mr. Powell - " A Major force in the Bands artistic vision or approach to music " Are you serious? Everyone is entitled to his opinion, thanks for yours. I guess my opinion would be that Jerichio is so far superior to anything Robbie Robertson has put out post Band. Just my humble opinion. I would rather hear the Barn Burners than anything Robbie does now.

Pat Brennan - Please do not lump me in with the likes of Dale, Judge Judy or the rest of the Feuders, I am not one, I am having a discussion, not a fight or a feud. I also don't think your condescending attitude towards me is really necessary, if you would like to join in, please do.

The first concerns began well before 1983.It was after the release of the Brown Album that the other Band members caught on that something was wrong. Keep in mind that Albert Grossman was the manager then, Robbie leaned from the master. This is very well documented, as you will someday read. I have read most of the documents and breifs from this period and I personally have drawn my own conclusions.

I am here to learn as much as I possibly can about The Band and I think some of you really know what your talking about, not all however. That is what I enjoy about this site, reading Mr. Vineys very informative "novellette's". I love the down home posts of Sam, the no bull posts of Bone's. Who could replace Lil? No one I know. Even the ever changing, dare I say entertaining insanity of Rosland.

its about what is right, It is about being fair, it is about justice.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 22:55:45 CEST 2003 from x403443d5.ip.e-nt.net (64.52.67.213)

Elizabeth

Not to belabor this, but I forgot to attach another quote from Garth regarding the songwriting issue with my previous post, "We just sounded different, and we still do, when you listen to it." Hudson recalled." The voices were just so unique, and Robbie (chief songwriter and guitarist Robertson) was so crafty, such a hard worker, and very adept (as a writer) with the legal pad and pencil."

Entered at Mon Jun 2 22:54:33 CEST 2003 from 213-48-242-141.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.242.141)

Al Edge

First and Final warning - if people don't stop posting about the feud I'll post my 10,000 word piece on it. And nobody wants that. Surely? Not even the odd masochist who might be passing through.

:-o)

Nancy. Must admit I too was bitterly disappointed Bruce never appeared in Perth. I really did think he'd get there. Must have been financial. I've got two mates out there who I'd contacted as soon as I knew the ticket sales were about to be announced. They were pretty crestfallen. Both are big fans, one Duggy who is the spit of Bruce to look at was the one who got me hooked on Bruce all those years ago before he emigrated. He said he might try to get to Sydney but I understand it's not exactly at the bottom of the garden. As it is I'm certain there'll be a video/dvd of the tour and it will be something special.

In the meantime I'll post just for you a post that Tim a mate of mine put up on the Springsteen website after he went to the manchester gig. Once again it will give you a taster of what you can expect. I think it captures beatifully why the man can invoke such passionate feelings in his fans. Incidentally if you could just happen to make it???? then he's doing I believe 11 nights at the Giants Stadium in July/August!!!!

TIM'S POST:-

I’ve been a fan for over 15 years. This was my first Bruce concert. I’m a big Beatles fan and Paul McCartney plays in my hometown on Sunday night. I don’t have a ticket and before Thursday night, I was a bit gutted.

And now?

Now, if someone offered me a ticket for the Macca gig, I’d probably pass it onto someone more worthy. And that would be only my feeble excuse. Because, simply, I know that the concert I witnessed in Manchester on Thursday night cannot be followed. Not by Paul McCartney… not by anyone. Another Live Aid with every artist under the sun wouldn't inspire me, except for the cause...oh and the presence of a certain person.

I’ve seen the concerts on video, the NYC 2001 version of Tenth Avenue Freeze Out is ultimately one of the best performances I have ever, ever seen. And do I mean ever!! The video repairman said it wasn’t a fault with the video recorder itself, it’s a good machine he said – it’s just the videotape, sadly they’re not accustomed to being played that many times. I rushed out immediately to buy a DVD player, throwing my house keys behind me – the repairman kindly locked up for me.

We arrived at the cricket ground about 45 minutes before showtime and got a decent spec. When Bruce showed I thought I was actually about to vomit with sheer excitement. I was trembling. Visibly. His rendition of BITUSA came as no surprise as my mate, Alan Edge had been to the Crystal Palace gigs.

As Alan suggested, it was almost a last chance shout to the stragglers outside munching on hotdogs and the likes. That’s not taking anything away from the acoustic performance of course. It just epitomizes the man’s professionalism from start to finish. Are you ready? Well, most of us were. And Bruce and the band certainly were ready. As if that were ever in doubt.

It’s ironic that I mention McCartney, because Macca’s concert in Liverpool in 1990 was my first. My Bruce deflowering was about to commence. I knew enough about Bruce to realize I was going to be entertained. Alan had assured me of that. You can place your complete trust in him he'd said.

In fact, Al was even slightly jealous that I was about to lose my Springsteen-inity having himself just witnessed the majesty of his Crystal Palace performances. Al said that after the Palace performance, a small part of him wishes he were about to experience the whole thing again, for the first time.

Well, Al, I know you’ll agree that you’ve nothing to be even slightly jealous about. With this man, the first time is as good as the last time. I’ve seen enough of the discussions on the well-documented playlists to realize that. I knew Bruce varied the lists, but never appreciated how much he could tease an audience - ANY audience - with such choice from an unbelievable back catalogue. This rock genius could even sing the ill-fated Jemini Eurovision classic and still be assured of more than maximum points. (Eurovision Song Contest for those who don't know what I'm on about)

If I had the money, I’m sure I’d be arrested for stalking Bruce Springsteen. I would have swum from Liverpool to Dublin today to be there for his gig tonight. The main reason for posting this was because I’ve probably bored my family and friends half to death with my rambling enthusiasm. It is an enthusiasm that is transposed from Bruce’s stage to each and every fortunate soul within his presence. And I don't know how long it lasts. Hopefully, there is no cure for it. If there is, I'll hide in my loft until they run out of the serum. I don't ever not want to feel like this again. Bruce Springsteen should be sponsored by Lucozade Sport. Or cocaine dealers. I’m on a high place at the moment and I don’t know how nor do I wish to know how to get down.

Hmm while I'm up here, might as well insulate the loft I guess.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 21:13:45 CEST 2003 from gpf-t200.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.200)

sadavid

I've read a fair bit of Robertson Davies and agree that Fifth Business is the place to start. Then you'll have to finish the trilogy with The Manticore and World of Wonders. Band fans will probably appreciate the circus trains travelling through one-horse towns with freaks, monkeys, addicts and drunks aboard, small time European carnivals (with Gitanes, probably), saints, sinners and a genuine magician.

It's quite true that you don't use the "Doctor" if it's "honoris causa." -- probably why "Ruben Remus ain't no doctor!"

Of course musicians play in identifiable styles - which is often (for me at least) a matter as much of what-they-choose-to-play-where as of technique. Levon lopes along in that half-time, but then he'll do a very fast roll that's quite distinctive. Both Levon and Richard on drums really support the vocal, but in different ways. It seems to me that Richard uses a lot more crash cymbal. They both use a "hiccup" beat on the bass drum, but the timing's different - it comes down to different voices, just a bit less hear-able (for non-musicians like moi, anyway) than the differences in singing voices.

As I believe Peter Viney posted, some tunes are not distinctive. I haven't kept up with Levon's recent work (I'm still saving for music recorded in 1966) but I recently heard a cut from the Muddy in Woodstock record, and the drumming just seemed like stock-standard blues drumming (and while the Zydeco accordian was great, I wasn't quite sure it suited the tune). One of the best aspects of Levon's book is his discussion of approaches/techniques he's discovered and used on varios songs. Drummers can correct me if I'm off here, but the style developed on Big Pink and The Band seems like a real departure, at least in terms of the drum work us rock fans were hearing at the time.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 21:10:38 CEST 2003 from m249-mp1.cvx1-c.bir.dial.ntli.net (213.105.44.249)

Ferdinand The Imposter

My view on the whole matter:

I don't know / Don't really care / Let there be songs / To fill the air

There you go. I know it's a Grateful Dead song, but hey - seems to express a lot of peoples' attitudes in here at the moment. (But fill the air with BAND songs, not the Dead!)

Entered at Mon Jun 2 20:50:21 CEST 2003 from powellgoldsteinfraziermurphy.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.3.234)

David Powell

Subject: vision

I have no desire at this point in discussing the so-called feud or rift. Having further resolved to focus on the individual Band members' musical contributions in a positive light, I'd like to make the following point:

Apart from his songwriting contributions, Robbie Robertson was a major force in creating The Band's artistic vision or approach to music. By vision, I mean the larger perspective, the almost cinematic point of view, of how the songs could be cast. This was a key to providing the tableau of great width that characterized the scope of the group's most successful work.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 20:41:53 CEST 2003 from inktomi3-bri.server.ntl.com (62.255.0.6)

Beth

Bayou Sam: I really, really agree with what you said about TLW. I’m glad I wasn’t just being completely blind when I watched it and missed all the bitterness – or at least, if I was, I wasn’t the only one!

I was reading a review of the concert (not on this site) that I found sort of surprising/amusing because it talked about how Robbie Robertson was ‘acting’ all the time and – horror of horrors – sticking his neck muscles out! I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but surely that’s something you don’t really… you know… have too much control over?

And – I could be wrong here – but surely Levon is enjoying himself at the concert? Look at him grin when Robbie finishes taking a solo in the Eric Clapton bit. He's grinning at Robbie. And I guess if there are going to be accusations of 'acting', they could just as equally apply to that, if he was quite as bitter as people say he was. Don't get me wrong; I don't think Levon was acting (I think he’s amazing) and, genuinely, I don't think Robbie was either. It looks like some accusations of canny-businessman-syndrome might be legitimate, from what I’ve read here, but surely you can't fault the guy for over-performing or having muscles in his neck. LOL. I know no one here’s said that, and I’m not bitching at anyone who might disagree with me, I just thought it was an odd thing to complain about when there are obviously so many more faults to pick from and thought I’d share it with you.

Amanda, Levon Helm said that about you? You lucky… really? How cool! When did you meet him? And why *do* you reckon everything changed like it did in the 80s? From the (limited) stuff I’ve read on it, I was struck by how everything suddenly did go kind of sour without apparent explanation. Can’t help feeling the roundtable idea might end up getting violent though.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 20:31:21 CEST 2003 from cic-sn-oprx-pxy2.wachovia.com (169.200.173.36)

Bones

Maybe then we can get back to the music and the great legacy of the Band and ALL its members!

Entered at Mon Jun 2 19:50:10 CEST 2003 from hki4-9d.kiinteisto.inet.fi (80.221.67.157)

Kalervo

Subject: Without Robbie

Thanks Elizabeth....I have also wondered why they are knocking Robbie so much here...Without Robbie the Band would be a good rocking band with fine musicians, but never world-class. I doubt we Scandinavians would have never heard the Band and this web site wouldn't exist. Don' t let envy blind the facts!

Entered at Mon Jun 2 19:01:07 CEST 2003 from (204.60.27.235)

Todd Atkinson

Subject: The Rest of My Post

The rest of my previous post didn't make it.

The point that I was trying to make is this. There were people "in the room" together as songs were being written/created. For the most part, none of those people were us. All we have to go on are accounts from people who were there. Those people have profound differences of opinion. It's inevitable that we will as well.

I don't know the answer, or what the real story is. It's possible that the people who were actually in the room together were too close to the situation to form an objective opinion about it.

I think the only thing that I can say with any certainty is that it is unfortunate.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 18:26:43 CEST 2003 from x403443d5.ip.e-nt.net (64.52.67.213)

Elizabeth

Subject: The Feud

I would like to offer my congratulations to Robbie Robertson for his well-deserved honorary degree. The bitterness towards Robbie at this website is unbelievable. How can you love a band and hate its primary song-writer? With regard to the songwriting issue, I was also heartened to see what Garth had to say (and I think this might be the quote for which Peter Viney was looking): "However, unlike his friend Helm, Hudson expresses no bitterness towards Robertson. In his 1993 memoir, This Wheel's On Fire, Helm suggests Hudson was cheated out of royalties. "That could hurt if it were true," says Garth. "I don't know how deeply a man could hurt if it were true. But I didn't contribute in the same way as everybody else. I'd be around when songs were written, and I'd try to think of something silly to put in. Maybe I was just envious of the writers who were filling up yellow legal pads."

Entered at Mon Jun 2 18:18:16 CEST 2003 from wcs2-pent.nipr.mil (198.26.74.100)

Nick

Entered at Mon Jun 2 17:46:07 CEST 2003 from ptnm-sh6-port165.snet.net (204.60.19.165)

Todd Atkinson

Subject: Songwriting

REM is one of those bands who shared credit equally regardless of who wrote lyrics, melody, arrangments etc. That probably gave them one less thing to argue about. It's interesting to me that it was the drummer (Bill Berry) in that band who didn't want to continue.

I realize that this has not much to do with "The Band," and will not solve the feud, but just shows another group's solution to the problem of giving credit where credit is, or isn't due.

My personal opinion is that there probably were other people in the room at the same time.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 17:42:22 CEST 2003 from mcha-aj158.taconic.net (205.231.150.158)

Lil

Megan!! Dude! :-) Thanks for the info. The tune "If you're not the one" is the one I keep hearing..and I really like it alot. Will have to check out the cd I guess.
Will give your messge to Jess. See you soon I hope!

Entered at Mon Jun 2 17:40:39 CEST 2003 from tnt-77-145.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.145)

Tracy

I miss BWNWIT like Viney and I'll also add in the masterful wording of Matt K. Although, maybe they too got tired of hearing the same old boring crap.

Tracy

Entered at Mon Jun 2 17:36:32 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Megan

Subject: Lil (Daniel Bedingfield)

Hey Lil! I read your post about Daniel Bedingfield and I don't have his cd but I do have alot of burnt cd's with his song's on them. His song's are really good! Many of his songs they remix into club song's but if you hear the original ones he is good. His two most popular songs (or the two songs that came out on the radio) are called, "Gotta get threw this" and "If your not the one", which is my personal favorite of his. Tell Jess I said hi!

Entered at Mon Jun 2 17:26:25 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-021.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.21)

Peter Viney

I cut and pasted a few apposite quotes over the years on the songwriting issue. They bear repeating. I’ll keep them all together for next time too. There's a more explicit Garth one where he says straight out "Robbie was the songwriter." but I can't find it immediately.

Danko interview by Robert L. Doerschuk. This interview was done on December 7, 1999

QUESTION: There are other issues related to songwriting, in disputes you've had with Robbie Robertson over sharing credit for much of the Band's repertoire.
DANKO: I don't have a problem with any of it, you know? I'm a very thankful person. Whatever publishing I've shared with people, whatever songwriting credits I've shared and whatever payments I've gotten, I'm thankful. I could have ended up having to get a real job. I'm thankful for what the Band has represented and what the Band has done. I'm not gonna sit here and tear the Band apart.

GARTH: New Jersey Online 2003: “Hudson doesn’t echo Helm’s criticisms,”I had a very good job, that’s how I look at it. I was well paid for what I did and I managed to progress with my technique and craft of playing adds and fills in between great poems,”

Pat Brennan posted this quote (Rolling Stone, 19 Nov 1987) and I’ve pasted it before too:
However, we can all learn something from a Rick Danko quote in the article: "Robbie was always one of my favorite singers. But he was always shy of the microphone. Might have been an element of stage fright there. He would sing the parts for us, and we would reproduce them." Reproduce.

BWNWIT (sorely missed here) posted this quote, from Robbie in 1995, and this is the 2nd or 3rd time I’ve “pasted” it.:
QUESTION: WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO LEVON'S BOOK?
ROBBIE: I didn't read it, because I heard it was a lot of sour grapes, and I thought, "Oh well, whatever." I've got too much else to think about for that kind of stuff. It's just been so long. I mean, I love Levon dearly and I always will, for all the tremendous times we had together, but really, you'd think he'd have more interesting things to think about in his life by now. I guess he blames me for breaking up The Band, and I suppose that's partly true, but he didn't say why. I didn't do it on a whim, believe me. You know, I called him up a couple months before the book came out, rather naively, to talk about the box set and how we should get together and play some music together. And he said, "Yeah, that sound good to me," like everything was hunky-dory. He didn't say, "Hey, look, I've got this book coming out".... And just because someone's in the room when a song is being written doesn't mean they helped write it. Don't get me wrong - Levon and Rick and Richard contributed tremendously to the arrangements and to the sound of those records, and there's no way to explain how important Garth was in terms of taking us to new places musically. But I'm sorry, it's just not true. And in a few cases, I thought I was more than generous when someone was in the room while I was writing a song.... These were, and are, very talented guys, and it was a joy to hear them when they were on their mark. But then when you go into the studio and everyone's not really there for it, it bruises you in your soul. So if you want to know why I didn't want to go on the road with these guys any more and why The Band had become this pathetic, drug-infested, dysfunctional organization and why I thought we should bring it to a conclusion, then read his book.

Pat also posted this from a Greg Kot Chicago Tribune interview, 2002:
ROBBIE: "I know that Levon's had a tough time, he's had health problems, but it's not my fault and I wish him the best. To say that it was an issue [while they were together in The Band] is just nonsense, utter nonsense, after all these years. Who did the work? I tried, I begged Levon to write songs or help me write songs -- all the guys. I always encouraged everybody to write. You can't make somebody do what they don't want to do or can't do, and he's not a songwriter.
"With The Band he started to write one song, `Strawberry Wine,' the whole time and couldn't finish it, and I helped him finish it. And there were some other songs that I wrote and he was there when I was writing them, and just because he was being supportive, I gave him credit on a couple of songs. He didn't write one note, one word, nothing. What he's saying now is the result of somebody thinking about their financial problems. I wrote these songs and then 20 or 30 years later somebody comes back and says he wrote the songs? It never came up back then, and it's preposterous that it's coming up now."

Entered at Mon Jun 2 17:04:42 CEST 2003 from h-69-3-220-76.chcgilgm.covad.net (69.3.220.76)

Pat Brennan

Dale and Curtis, your opinions on Richard's songwriting credits please. And Rick's. And I missed it: why didn't anyone say anything about this until 1983?

Entered at Mon Jun 2 16:46:22 CEST 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

First, the Bill who posted the Danko interview is not me, though I do thank him for posting it.

Second, re 'gypsy', neither my little Collins French-English nor my "Larousse de poche" dictionary list 'gypsy' at all, though the Larousse lists both 'gitan(e)' and 'tzigane' - both defined as 'Bohemian'. So, Peter, your teacher didn't lie to you that time. I'd rate the Gitanes package, with a gitane formed from a puff of smoke, as the nicest looking cigarette package I've ever seen. Death inside, though.

Third, tying some topics together, the Roma feature prominently in Robertson Davies' "Rebel Angels". Davies had a cameo role in both the "Shakey" bio of Neil Young and in some obits at the time of Zal's death. The Young connection is that because Young's father was part of the Canadian literary establishment, he spent his early years having people like Robertson Davies over to dinner. And Zal's restaurant in Kingston would be the hangout of much the same set 20-odd years later - Davies, Atwood, Farley Mowat.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 15:56:13 CEST 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1c-138.hhe.adelphia.net (68.168.204.138)

Amanda

My interest in wanting to discuss Band relationships in the 80s was to come up with some truths and facts. My motives were to shed light on events that eventually destroyed Levon's and Robbie's relationship. No songwriting issue, no power struggles, no evil vs. good...only why one man changed his heart towards another man.

Just for the record...I have no problem with Robbie receiving an honorary law degree. Obviously it has more to do with his support of the aboriginal community, he deserves that recognition. I have never wished Robbie happy birthday or commented on his achievements outside of his work with The Band. I join the crowd who never send happy wishes to Levon or make mention of his performances and projects...so...you know the old saying...those in glass houses...

I think we should have a Band summit somewhere...a roundtable...visual show w/ Band music...memorabilia...speakers...performers...all that good stuff...just hash it out face to face...I believe we would all feel much better. I'll help put it all together if someone wants to...just a thought. :o) The Band lives on...don't cry in your pillow or let the smoke get in your eyes...get a tatoo by all means.

I'll always be dedicated to the greatest rock and roll singer and drummer that ever lived...who said I reminded him of Anna Lee and the girls... from the most incredible song ever written or performed.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 15:19:32 CEST 2003 from wwwcache4.uce.ac.uk (193.60.131.9)

Roger

Subject: Serge and Moseley

Serge, thanks for your comments. I've been away and wrapped up with work so this is the first time I've looked at the GB for 4 days (almost a record for me unless I'm on holiday). I will certainly try to get to at least one day of the festival and will report back. It'll mean changing an event around (which is why I couldn't make it to Van's concert on Friday Peter).

What a prospect - I've got tickets for the men's final at Wimbledon one weekend, then the Django fest which is in my local and very private park - it's about 5 minutes walk up the road, then the test match. Looks like a good summer coming on.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 15:06:16 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

Curtis Blue

Subject: Bill's Post Danko Interview

Read Bills post. Rick Danko's own words. That settles that.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 15:04:56 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Tracy - You need to remember that there are millions of people in the world similar but opposite from yourself who don't believe Hitler or OJ did anything wrong either. Just depends on what end of the spectrum you are standing. And I never stated they were similar. I said I would feel the same way about a tattoo of their likenesses as I do of a tattoo of Robber. I'm sorry you disagree with me, but that is my opinion. Wrong is wrong is wrong, and they'll all 3 burn in hell together when it's all said and done unless something changes. I am sure of that, and I'm not even all that religious. That said, who knows, maybe I'll be there with too. Would that make you feel better? OK, I'm done with this negative bullshit, and I am going to try and stay away from this place because of that. I just wish some of you folks would stop talking about him like he was such a hero. I'm truly sorry if I have ruined your Robbie vibe. That wasn't my intent. I just think the guy is a crook and stabbed his brothers in the back. The End.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 14:57:20 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

Calvin

Judy, 2 of the 3 leading Jazz Magazines have for years had a feature where they would bring in say Benny Green and play snippets of 5 songs featuring a piano player, going back as far as WW1. The guest would have to identify the player and rate the song, rarely do thay use songs with vocals or that were "hits", more like track 6 from a 1973 album, or a 1957 album. SOme of the guys arent to do, Ive seen people get %100 right. And it clearly isnt from just knowing the song, they at times try to figure it out based on the others players or start out saying it's someone out of the Benny Carter school and go from there. You might not believe it can be done, but some magazines have been running people doing it as a regualr feature for 30 years.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 14:27:13 CEST 2003 from tnt-77-200.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.200)

Tracy

Dave Z, you're the guy normally with the great sense of humor. I can't speak for all of the gals that used to post but we just don't see humor in posting here anymore. Things turn too ugly too often. People take more interest in blame than music. It doesn't seem to matter if it's about what's going on in the world or The Band. It's all politics.

A good amount of us ladies are over at the basement at our own forum. As the moderator of the list over there, I make sure no fights errupt. If I see any sign even of sarcasm, I like to let them know. The list hasn't stayed strong since '99 because of backlashing and nastiness towards Band members or personl postings. It's stuck around this long because we can "talk" without turning it into a battlefield.

Every time Robbie's name seems to be mentioned as of lately, nobody can congratulate him on anything. It turns into THE FEUD. This is why I hardly ever even mentioned meeting him at the signing in NYC last year or any other event for that matter. It gets ridiculous and too predictable. Posts about Robbie being similar to Hitler and O.J. Simpson, that's really demented. I can't compare a dictator who slaughtered thousands of Jewish people and a man who slaughtered his ex-wife to a guitar player who went solo and became successful. The persomal problems with poster vs. poster is enough already. I used to think that The Band Guestbook was open to discussions not warfare.

Tracy

going underground

Entered at Mon Jun 2 13:07:19 CEST 2003 from mcha-af009.taconic.net (205.231.30.8)

Lil

Wishing everyone a better day than yesterday.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 12:45:51 CEST 2003 from i118-090.nv.iinet.net.au (203.59.118.90)

Nancy

Subject: Al Edge

Thanks for sharing your Bruce Springsteen concert experience, Al. I was bitterly disappointed Bruce didn't come to Western Australia to play in Perth on this tour - but maybe little ol' Perth couldn't handle the type of mind blowing concert you described anyway:)
Mind you, the person writing this message could!!

I love the album "Live in New York City" - it gives me some notion of how he sounds when he performs live - whew! - maybe one day I'll see him do it.

Note smiley face above. It denotes friendly attitude to all like minded souls:)

Thanks again Al.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 11:54:37 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-012.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.12)

Peter Viney

On moderation. I think anyone who hates Robbie as much and irrationally as some of you do, should consider what impact Stuff You Gotta Watch, Willie & The Hand Jive, Summertime Blues and Money would have made on the world in 1968. Not a lot, I think. I haven’t included the possibility of a Robbie-less Band doing all Richard songs, because Richard as a solo writer claiming full credit would have to be attacked in the same way by Levon. And why has Levon never attacked Richard’s solo credits? Same thing exactly.

Robertson Davies and Garth do look alike. Davies wrote three major trilogies, The Salterton Trilogy, The Deptford Trilogy and the Cornish Trilogy, as well as ghost stories and single novels, Murther and Walking Spirits and The Cunning Man. The trilogies were all originally published as three single novels, seperated by a couple of years or more and can be read like that. The modern compilations where Penguin have published the complete trilogy as one book are a bit daunting due to length. I think you can also still get the single volumes. The Salterton Trilogy is much earlier than the others and is much more a conventional novel. I’d miss it until you’ve read the rest. I started with The Deptford Trilogy, the first book of which is Fifth Business, so like Fred, I’d recommend that as the starter, because it got me hooked. But I know people who started with The Rebel Angels, first book in The Cornish Trilogy and they got hooked too.

On drums and drumming. Anyone should be able to identify Levon’s distinctive sound on The Weight and most major Band songs. However, I would defy most of the non-drummers to pick him out on some recent sessions on blues albums where he plays on just one or two tracks. Richard had a unique style, but it wouldn’t have worked on most of the songs. On the 90s live Band stuff I got several wrong from bootlegs until I saw them – Randy Ciarlante was the one who was actually hitting hardest. I noticed that when Levon moved to bass, the drums sounded just as strong, but when Randy moved to bass on Caledonia Mission, they were weaker. But that’s just an age thing. And it’s not just how hard you hit it that makes it good anyway. I’d say it’s the same with bass. Rick has a distinctive rolling style and plays like McCartney, rather than like (say) James Jameson. On most Band songs, the bass is distinctive, but there are some tracks where you could substitute him and no one would notice. And maybe even a couple where James Jameson would have played it better. If you take that intro to The Weight, which Jim Weider played perfectly on guitar, most of you could hear that distinctive something different when Robbie plays it live at Seville or the R&R Hall of Fame. Same notes, same spaces, but it is distinguishable as Robbie. But then there are slices of R&R Hall of fame rhythm playing when you really can’t tell. They all have signature styles, but no one has THAT much of a signature on every single thing they play. Oh, except Garth.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 09:37:12 CEST 2003 from 0-1pool32-198.nas2.oakland1.ca.us.da.qwest.net (65.139.32.198)

Uncle Sam

We were already ignoring you to begin with BS. Thanks for the reminder though. It's always better to be on the safe side I always say.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 09:11:40 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

time to ignore the moron's

have a nice day

Entered at Mon Jun 2 08:19:10 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Hey, what's with all the anger? I think when you cut to the chase and put it all in a nutshell, what Judge Judy is really trying to say is that Robbie is a low life, cheating scumbag who sucker punches people when he can and runs away and hides with all the cash when he can't. Right Judge? Finally a voice of reason and I agree completely, although I wouldn't have been so harsh. That girl will speak her mind! (Sorry, it just seemed so appropriate to repost)

Entered at Mon Jun 2 08:01:43 CEST 2003 from pcp02099924pcs.towson01.md.comcast.net (68.34.124.56)

Mike

Subject: Judy

Judy, I think you are way out of line with all of this. First of all, I don't think you understand the meaning of being in a band. The amount of friendship and love for one another is the most important part of being in band. You dont do it to be famous, or be rich, or met women. Being in a band is about making music that you love with the people you care about, your fellow bandmates. Without that, The Band would not have become one of the greatest bands of all time. And to sit there and say that They would have been the Band without Levon is rediculous. They would not have been The Band without any of them, Robbie, Rick, Richard, Levon, or Garth. So what if there is bitterness between Levon and Robbie. What's the big deal. The important thing to me and hopefully to everyone else that listens to them is thier music. There are not many bands out there that have had perfect careeers, thats the way it goes. Nothing is perfect and just like marriages, not all bands last forever. Anyone that thinks less of The Band because of a dispute between two members can not be a true fan. I really don't have an opinion either way about it and even if I did, I would not express it here. I feel the gb is here for people to talk about the music of the Band, share stories and experiences and thats what I will continue to do, as long as I am a fan.

I also have to disagree with the talk about not knowing the difference between drummers. I've been playing drums since i was 8, and i'm now 20 and it is very easy for me to tell different drummers apart. I could easily tell the difference between Levon and Ringo any time, any day. I just think you shouldn't put Levon down for something that you don't seem to know to much about yourself. Levon's drumming made The Band what it was, not to metion his vocals.

As for Levon being a happy guy, I don't really know him personally. I met Levon two weeks ago here in Baltimore and I can honestly say that I have never seen someone have so much fun before in my life. The man smiles more than anyone else I have ever met and he had nothing but great, happy things to say. I think Levon is one of the greatest drummers of all time, not to mention the fact that his voice brings chills everytime i hear it.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 07:11:14 CEST 2003 from 1cust236.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.236)

Judge Judy

Subject: Baloney!

I say baloney to anyone who asserts they could identify Levon's drumming in a blind test. I bet you wouldn't bet any serious amount of money on it. And Ringo's drumming could be replaced without notice by any half-way competent skin banger. Of course, I'm not saying his charisma could be so easily replaced nor could Levon's bitterness. I never saw the Band except in the movies but I have read Levon's book and that other one about the Band by that English guy and Levon seems like a big braggart in his own book in my opinion just like those of you who defend him to the hilt in here and call Robbie a crook.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 07:08:53 CEST 2003 from pool0494.cvx36-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (216.244.19.239)

paul body

Subject: levon's birthday

I just want to say happy birthday to the funkiest drummer in the land and keep on painting those masterpieces. A Fan for years

Entered at Mon Jun 2 05:32:51 CEST 2003 from at-std10.nirai.ne.jp (61.25.183.10)

Fred

Subject: Robertson Davies, etc

Dave Z (or ZED as we would call you in Canada): My advice is to start with the first book in the Deptford Trilogy series: Fifth Business.

Doesn't anybody think that Garth looks like Robertson Davies (and vice-versa) check out the link

Brown Eyed girl: funny you should mention Louuuu Reed, just finished watching a TV show about NYC, Lou Reed & his lastest effort about Edgar Allan Poe. It was the first time i'd ever seen/listened to him being interviewed and he seems very, umm, untalkative!! (although he wasn't rude to the Japanese interviewer)

Entered at Mon Jun 2 05:04:09 CEST 2003 from cpe-65-25-199-100.mn.rr.com (65.25.199.100)

Dave Z

Peter V: What is the best Robertson Davies book to start with? Other Gbers can pipe up too. Thanks. I think this was the writer I wrote down a year or so ago... and then lost the list... Thanks Pete for reviving...

Amanda: My post wasn't intended to slam you in any way. I hesitated to say something because I saw your "rational" post... but what the heck... folks like Tracy, Brooke, Adela, etc,... are wonderful posters to me... some of whom have seemed to disapear after they have maybe had enough... and I think GB archives may bear this out... all I was trying to say is I'd like for them to stick around... and so maybe we all could pause on the fued stuff the next time RR pops up in the What's New section... You and BEG have taken your share of shots and still stick around... and I'm glad... OK, enuff from the idiot called me... take care... Dual Soliloquy by Roy Buchanan is one sweet track... it starts off by the taper saying something like... we got 30 minutes of tape... so do what you want...

Entered at Mon Jun 2 04:47:19 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Bill

MATTHEW LEWIS: Rick, on the new album, I really like your version of Twilight. Why did you pick that particular old Robbie Robertson song to record?

RICK DANKO: I hate to say this, but it's as much of a Rick Danko song as it is a Robbie Robertson song. I just forgot to seek (credit). Robbie was very tight with sharing those responsibilities. That's why he's where he is, and that's why we are where we are, to make a long story short... He'll say he did it all, if you give him the opportunity,

MATTHEW: Are there a lot of old Band songs that you feel you should have been credited on?

RICK: I feel that way about the whole band. Especially the music. A lot of them stories, Levon (Helm, Band singer and drummer) told a lof of great stories that we worked in the lyrics for songs. But that's behind us. I feel much the way Mike Love (of the Beach Boys) feels. (Ed: Love sued bandmate Brian Wilson for denying him songwriting credits.) Maybe I'll have to end up hiring his lawyer (laughs).

MATTHEW: What's your relationship with Robbie these days?

RICK: I don't really speak to him or see him that much. He's hanging out in that Armani crowd, I guess, wearing them Armani suits.

MATTHEW: What's your reaction to some people who wish Robbie Robertson would rejoin The Band?

RICK: Everybody wishes that. I think Robbie even wishes that. People try to throw money at us... I think the last report was US$5 million. But money isn't the object anymore. We're not looking for a job. Everybody's pretty much doing what they want to be doing.

MATTHEW: So you feel The Band is still The Band with or without Robbie?

RICK; Absolutely. Not one monkey can stop the show. Robbie chose to do what he chose to do, and more power to him. I think he's regretted some of those movements, but that's not my problem... You know, you can't replace Richard Manuel, and you can't replace Robbie Robertson. No one was looking to do that. But that's not what makes a band anyway. I mean, the band is The Band.

MATTHEW: Do you feel like your career is getting kind of a second wind these days?

RICK: I don't really believe in second winds. We've all continued to live our lives and raise our families. Sometimes people pay attention, and sometimes people don't... I'm just glad that I never really had to work for a living. I got to go into semi-retirement at a very early age.

MATTHEW: Are there a lot of old Band songs that you feel you should have been credited on? RICK: I feel that way about the whole band. Especially the music. A lot of them stories, Levon (Helm, Band singer and drummer) told a lof of great stories that we worked in the lyrics for songs. But that's behind us. I feel much the way Mike Love (of the Beach Boys) feels. (Ed: Love sued bandmate Brian Wilson for denying him songwriting credits.) Maybe I'll have to end up hiring his lawyer (laughs). MATTHEW: What's your relationship with Robbie these days? RICK: I don't really speak to him or see him that much. He's hanging out in that Armani crowd, I guess, wearing them Armani suits. MATTHEW: What's your reaction to some people who wish Robbie Robertson would rejoin The Band? RICK: Everybody wishes that. I think Robbie even wishes that. People try to throw money at us... I think the last report was US$5 million. But money isn't the object anymore. We're not looking for a job. Everybody's pretty much doing what they want to be doing. MATTHEW: So you feel The Band is still The Band with or without Robbie? RICK; Absolutely. Not one monkey can stop the show. Robbie chose to do what he chose to do, and more power to him. I think he's regretted some of those movements, but that's not my problem... You know, you can't replace Richard Manuel, and you can't replace Robbie Robertson. No one was looking to do that. But that's not what makes a band anyway. I mean, the band is The Band. MATTHEW: Do you feel like your career is getting kind of a second wind these days? RICK: I don't really believe in second winds. We've all continued to live our lives and raise our families. Sometimes people pay attention, and sometimes people don't... I'm just glad that I never really had to work for a living. I got to go into semi-retirement at a very early age.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 04:28:10 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou sam

Jeff = I also wanted to say that my comment on everyone wishing Levon a Happy Birthday was just an attempt to be funny by me. I thought it was amazing how many people posted wishes to Levon, and how long the wishes continued well after his birthday. I guess my attempt at humor didn't work - and explaining it - well that kills it......I'll try to be funnier next time :-)

Entered at Mon Jun 2 04:12:10 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

Calvin

I've found over the years Judy that those who dont spend a lot of time playing instruments have a very hard time recognizing different players. I can recognize several Bass players by their technique, but the Bassist for you Creed/Train/Limp Bizkit whatever would remain a mystery to me. Rick had a pretty unique sound, so does Jack Cassidy, Pete Quaife of the Early Kinks is very recognizeable to me-Jaco without question. I can tell the difference. For that matter I can tell the difference between Richard and Levon playing the Drums, completely different kinds of energy, Levon strikes a lot heavier as well. So regardless of what you think, there are a lot of us who can pick out certain musicians.

You are probably right that without Robbie The Band would probably not be in the RnR HOF, I'm sure we would have heard of them the way we have The Blues Project or the Pretty THings. Great Musicians that never really came up with a distinct signature sounnd. But this would be only true if Richard would have still lost his Muse-remember very early on he wrote as much as RR. And he never shared songwriting credit either by the way, although I'm sure the other 4 greatly contributed to his songs as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by your comment about being Nuetral Amanda-forgive me if I misunderstood-but for the life of me I cant understand those who feel they have to take sides in the RR-Levon debate. I like em both, I wouldnt mind having a beer with either of them. I think they both have valid points, although yes-I do tend to see RR's view of the situation as more valid. But that feeling will never even make me thing any less of Levon. Although some of the things he says in the press do-not because he thinks that way-but because he chooses to talk about it with the press. But that is just my "play it close to the vest" personality coming out. I'm sure everyone last one of us has 2 friends who dont like each other, but we are able to maintain friendships with both of them. So I'm perfectly fine with being "neutral"-cause they are both great musicians who have added to my life. Their personal issues are non of my damn business just like mine is none of theirs. I do however seem to spend a lot of time talking about it.

BTW, Between Trains is a great song-I'm quite happy I found a good copy of King of Comedy.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 04:09:14 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Subject: Levon

Judy = Let me start by saying that I am a drummer. Levon is a terrific drummer, and I can tell if it's him playing on a song. He has a certain feel, and does certain little "fills" that are typical in his playing. To think that The Band would have been the same band without Levon - or ANY of the guys - means that you just don't get it. It was a lucky (for us) gathering of musical talent that was The Band. Same with my beloved Beatles. People make the same ridiculous comment about Ringo's part in the Beatles.

Putemup Jeff = It's a funny thing with Levon. He does seem to be the happiest guy in the world - most of the time. How could he not be? He sits back on his drum stool doing then thing he was born to do, and he still does it well. If you add beating Cancer to that, then hell, the guy is sitting on top of the world. It just that he seems to carry this terrible bitterness regarding Robbie, and the end of The Band part one. And the bitterness is real, and strong enough, to keep Levon from enjoying the accolades of his peers at the rock n roll HOF - and it kept him away from the services of his good friend Rick when he died. That's deep.........Of course, we're just looking at it from the fans point of view. We're not in Levon's head. We can only comment from what we see.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 04:09:28 CEST 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3613052.sympatico.ca (65.93.194.165)

brown eyed girl

Anyway, what I really respect about Louuu is that he made up with John Cale to perform in Paris, France in 1993 for the Reunion Tour....It wasn't exceptional....but it was probably the last time we had Sterling Morrison with us.......I still have no idea why they didn't play here or NYC but anyway......Even Vaclav Havel is a huuuuge fan of Louuuu and the Velvet Underground and was at their show.....He was a former playwright so he knows there are writers and then.....there are writers.....

Also John and Louuuu collaborated on "Drella" when Andy Warhol had to create in a higher place......Yup....When I listen to his music I'm reminded that some people grow up and others don't......

And damn....the next day I'm seeing Daniel Lanois once again......And if Brian Blade plays again with him.......WOW......BRIAN BLADE.....He's a dynamic drummer who hypnotizes his audience......Like I posted before....when he's playing with Daniel.....You are literally watching a tennis match.....Your head is going back and forth between the two of them......And Mike Shrieve.....I would have given anything to have been at Woodstock '69 to see him play on "Soul Sacrifice"...Watch his face....It's all in his face....Orgasmic playing for sure.......Also, wasn't he only about 17 during that concert?........So glad that I will have more interesting things to experience and talk about then the ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.

In anycase I will continue to support any Band member when they're in town but some of the magic will be lost forever.....Like others on this site.....I did not know anything about the personal problems until I came to this site and only posted originally because I literally couldn't tolerate the Robbie bashing....Four years later......We haven't moved forward......Yes it's true....Whenever one of us posts about meeting Robbie or he is given accolades by his peers or the music industry or now Ivy League....There is always a backlash....everytime....So predictable......For me the smile on Robbie's face makes me happy for him.....I would have preferred an honorary degree in music........But hey.....I don't give out honorary degrees.......I also went to an Ivy League school and it doesn't bother me one bit that he was EDUCATED out of school.....Real education anyway......Schooling and Education......two different concepts........I sent his old highschool the two great photos from his convocation......Well....you see what happens in here.........Brooke......You're younger than I am......I can't keep posting......Nah....I respect you more for playing guitar yourself!..........I only fantasize that I'm playing Robbie's licks while Aaron Neville's singing......"Crazy Love"......Play on Brooke!! ANYONE .....WHO INSPIRES ANYONE.....CANNOT BE EVIL.....;-D

BTW...I was sitting beside someone at the Garth gig at the Senator who told me he wants to do a project with Garth.....Hmmmmm.....He gave me his phone number.....maybe I'll call and report back.....;-D

Calm: See all of you when I get back from NYC!....Maybe Robbie will be back for another function.....:-D

BTW2....I saw Nick Nolte in "The Good Thief" today.....hmmmm was that a rap song with Arabic lyrics or.....and Leonard Cohen was singing away.....Apparently Nick took a tiny bit of smack during filming to really feeeeeeel what a junkie feeeeeeeels.....Nick.....Nick......

Entered at Mon Jun 2 04:08:34 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

PutEmUp (Jeff) ......a.k,a, Puff (J)

Entered at Mon Jun 2 03:47:50 CEST 2003 from usr646-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk (62.30.234.148)

Dave G.

Subject: Roz..again!"

Roz,Sorry about the state of my text below...I tried to achieve paragraphs, but I used the wrong "Slash../"!!!!

Entered at Mon Jun 2 03:36:53 CEST 2003 from xtreme-1-138.dyn.aci.on.ca (69.17.160.138)

RUDIMENT

Subject: JUDGE JUDY knows nothing about DRUMS

yo Judy Ican hear Levon laughing right now You are joe public we need you to make money keep up the primitive comments

Entered at Mon Jun 2 03:30:59 CEST 2003 from xtreme-1-138.dyn.aci.on.ca (69.17.160.138)

Rudiment

Subject: Drums Judge Judy

Judge Judy does not know anything about DRUMS she is typical JOE PUBLIC whith out her musicians would not make any money. I CAN HEAR LEVON LAUGHING RIGHT NOW. Keep up the good comments JUDY

Entered at Mon Jun 2 03:27:38 CEST 2003 from usr646-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk (62.30.234.148)

Dave G.

Subject: Roz

Roz,Isn`t music so powerful!..It can help so many people who are going through rough times in their lives, whether they are "Outcasts" in high school,or company executives who have it all,but in fact have nothing. /n In reference to your invaluable discovery of "Tom Waits",it took me back to when I first discovered "The Band" after viewing the "Last Waltz" for the first time, at my Uncle`s house in San Francisco,back in 1987. Prior to this,I was like most other 16 year olds..who lived on a regular diet of current chart music,such as Hip/hop etc.. /n However,upon my return journey home..I had music in my suit case from artists such as "Hank Williams"..."Joan Baez".... "The Byrds"...and of course "The Band"...Kids such as myself in those days and even more so now..are hit very hard with the "Image" thing...Michael Jackson doing the moonwalk..The scantily clad Girl singers...It seems the visual concept is very often the "Better sell" more than the actual musical talent of the artist. /n It`s a real shame, as I think children should get the chance to hear all forms of music..not just the mainstream music that pollutes the airwaves all day long overhere!. I introduced a friend to the "Band" upon my arrival back to England,where his initial comment was "Man!..these guys are old enough to be my Grandad!...dodgy haircuts too!". A few days later we were sitting in my Kitchen at night,as we sang along to "Ophelia"..."It Makes no difference" and "Up on Cripple Creek"...I thought I would do him a tape of some stuff anyway..and he really got into it. He now has his own copies of "Band" albums,and has got into other artists as a result!. I know you have many different charts over there,so maybe older music is played more often..and has a greater chance of reaching the "Younger" listener?. /n Like you, I find living in 2003,very sad times(musically) and in other ways as well. With artists such as "Eminem" and other artists and bands shouting aggression in their lyrics, it`s no wonder crime is on the increase etc..as music is such a major influence in young people`s lives..along with T.V. The later is probably even more destructive!...Oh well,we soldier on as they say!. /n Re-my own musical situation...No need to worry Roz,I have no intention of being sold down the river. No I havn`t played live..and no I havn`t signed any dodgy contracts. The guy I spoke to simply wanted my permision to take samples of my material to certain labels. If anything were to arise from this, he would draw up papers for him to be my official management..where I would get 80%, and he would get 20%,on any potential earnings..I would also be free to have my own independent lawyer view the papers before any agreement is made. n/ As it works at present,we are both working un-officially together..in an attempt to sell my material...no money has be given by myself, and I havn`t been asked for any. If nothing comes of it,we just go our seperate ways and that is that..there is nothing binding. Rest assured Roz,I have heard many a tale on what the music business can be like..so I`m taking everthing with a pinch of salt and listening to things very carefully. n/ Have you had any experience of record companies?...or have you any family or friends that have?. I`m pretty sure before any label will consider a signing..a performance live will be required. Vocally, I have no problem in doing this...as I record all my vocals straight through anyway..with overdubs used only to add a fuller sound for a chorus part etc..,as I am the only vocalist. The trouble is I play all the instruments myself, as I have no friends who are musical..so obviously if things become promising, the need for other musicians will be imperative for the "Live" stage..I have tried meeting other musicians in the past,but living distance has become a problem..and many others wanted to be the next "Oasis"..so I thought fU*K it..I`ll do everything myself,less hassle!. /n As I said before though,I would prefer to write the songs and let other people do the performing!...Ten years ago when I was 22..I would have said the opposite and would yearned for the limelight, but I`m not bothered now. /n Hey!..your a bluegrass fan eh?..I tune into a weekly Country music,radio programme from time to time...and quite often the D.J.plays a few bluegrass tunes. I`ve got the soundtrack to "Deliverence"..and I love to play it full blast in the car,when me and my friends pull outside a Wine Bar for example...The expression on the door men`s faces as we pull up...is a joy to behold!..hehe! /n I much prefer the older "bluegrass" to the new sound though, how about you?....By the way what songs to you play yourself?...I think it`s a good thing that us fellow "Band" fans talk more about ourselves...it`s intresting to hear about,other records and CD`s we have in our collection..and very often we have the same type stuff!..

Entered at Mon Jun 2 03:25:40 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Hey, what's with all the anger? I think when you cut to the chase and put it all in a nutshell, what Ros is really trying to say is that Robbie is a low life, cheating scumbag who sucker punches people when he can and runs away and hides with all the cash when he can't. Right Ros? Finally a voice of reason and I agree completely, although I wouldn't have been so harsh. That girl will speak her mind!

Entered at Mon Jun 2 03:14:59 CEST 2003 from 1cust163.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.163)

Judge Judy

Subject: Drums

I seriously doubt that anyone here could identify Levon's drumming if it weren't on some Band song and I'd like the Band just as much if they had a different drummer. Probably more, because every time I think of Levon I think of that bitterness he has toward Robbie. With a different drummer at least there wouldn't be this eternal feud. Didn't Levon even refuse to go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction because Robbie was going? This is a man who is not consumed by bitterness? And Robbie is the one responsible for making him famous with The Weight which didn't really need him on it. Rick and Richard would have sung it fine and Robbie could have sung a verse too. Besides, Richard played drums and they could have got along without Levon at all since Garth could have done all of the keyboard work while touring.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 03:12:47 CEST 2003 from mcha-aj068.taconic.net (205.231.150.68)

Lil again

Jeff: My 12 year old son was kind of reading the exchanges between you and Ros over my shoulder a little while ago, and said you should call yourself "Puff J" :-)

Entered at Mon Jun 2 03:09:50 CEST 2003 from mcha-aj068.taconic.net (205.231.150.68)

Lil

I wonder how many of us here have posted something in the heat of the moment..and then looked back on that post later on and thought "why the hell did I say that?". Well.. in case noone else has ever done that, let me be the first to admit that I did it earlier today. Our friend Ragtime has always told us to 'think before we post'...and that's good advice.
So.. I'm sorry for letting my frazzled nerves get the better of me in here earlier. Perhaps it's not enough, but it's sincere. And a heartfelt apology to.. you know who you are. Truce, ok? Peace.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 03:07:50 CEST 2003 from 210-55-179-130.dialup.xtra.co.nz (210.55.179.130)

steve coles

Subject: levon helm

Anybody know Levon Helms postal address,cheers

Entered at Mon Jun 2 02:41:21 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

A good old shitkicker like you should understand this much...I do not know a damn thing about internet sign language. I almost automatically ignore the goddamn signs cause i don't know and don't care what the fuck the things mean. Obviously I better take the course, cause not understanding starts shit, as witnessed here today.

I honestly thought old Ed, who is my friend, was fucking with me. We have been having the down side that friends inevitably have periodically. And in his post with the 4 USS , universal smiley signs, I was still internet retarded enough to think he was saying that there were 4 USS signs in the last post of his that I reacted to. Not realizing that the 4 signs were meant for the end of his last sentence, meaning once again he was only joking. So I reacted wrongly again. Shit happens. And no , i am not medicated, stoned or drunk. I can do this all without any extra stimulation. Just overworked, underpaid, stressed like a lot of people. So there it is. Call me anything you want.

By the way, your posts have been pretty good , you have been fairly well behaving for a while now, even making a good amount of sense sometimes.

Gee, thanks, Ros.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 02:40:14 CEST 2003 from xtreme-1-138.dyn.aci.on.ca (69.17.160.138)

Rudiment

Subject: If you were watching the HAWKS in the early stages the rest is history. All the opinions about Levon And Robbie really means nothing.

Alot of people that put down Robbie and act like they know how Levon really feels need to go way back when the Hawks were breathing together and each member played his part of the puzzle. The rest is history and all the Talk means nothing. The Band was great Because each member listened to the other. The personal shit should stay between them everybody should mind there own business and quit trying to impress every one with verball shit.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 02:37:08 CEST 2003 from (202.7.161.172)

Chris Xegas

Go Rosalind! Spot On Accuracy!!

Entered at Mon Jun 2 02:30:41 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

PutEmUpPuffedUpJeff

GEE THANKS, ROS!

Entered at Mon Jun 2 02:28:33 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Hey Ros. Yknow, it is funny. For a year or so now I have just done my best to ignore your posts, as really , that is the best thing that anyone can do with them. But now that you have taken a shot at me, I feel like I really belong here. I never thought I would say this, but: Gee thanks, Ros.

Got to admit, on the rare occassion you have really made me laugh. Gee, thanks, Ros.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 02:07:35 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

I suggest ol "PutEmUp" (Jeff) should change his tag to "Puffed Up"(Jeff).

Entered at Mon Jun 2 01:39:36 CEST 2003 from netcache-2003.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.62)

rosalind

Okay, Let's just say that Levon had stayed "Leader of the Band" Do you honestly think the Hawks would have gone any farther than that one One-Shot Big Deal with Dylan? Do you honestly think that Levon had the stuff it took to keep still in an office filled with people concerned more about money that music. Hell No ! Levon would have found it too tempting to just pass up diplomacy and compromise and rip somebody's lungs out like it was back in the good old days on the chitlin circuit. "You don't pay us - you get your ass kicked right out yonder in that alley out back" Enter Mr Robertson, A man who had diplomacy and compromise in his blood, a businessman in every sense of the word. He knew how to sit still like a gentleman, listen to the bullshit with his ears, not his fists and fake the respect needed to get the job done . In my opinion if Robbie hadn't taken over the business end, we would have never heard the Band beyond. And Levon, the greatest drummer and one of the best singers in the world would be sitting back in Arkansaw in his older years saying stuff like "I was the greatest drummer in the world. We had the greatest rock and roll band that ever graced this planet! Fucking Bar-None! And look at me, forkin' shit all day and playing drums on the side and nobody knows my name." Yep, instead of whole life filled with forkin' shit, Levon has his ass in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame right where he deserves to be. And on top of all that, he still has something to bitch about.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 01:30:05 CEST 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1c-138.hhe.adelphia.net (68.168.204.138)

Amanda

Entered at Mon Jun 2 01:08:40 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Ed: I never went to internet school. Don't know smiley signs from railroad signs. And I did not call myself PutEmUp for nothing.

Don't sue me.

While I am making requests, I would prefer not to be called a fuggin songwriter. I am a fucking songwriter. Don't you forget it.

As far as blues goes, you have admitted to not understanding. Which does not make you a bad guy.

While I could spend days discussing what real blues, as opposed to pseudo- blues and blues rock, is about, I am not going to.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 01:07:28 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Calvin

Youre Right Jeff, the song is "Over and Over Again" from I've got a Reason. However, during the chrorus he says "over and Over and Over again."

One thing I don't understand about the feud is people who get mad at RR because he didnt want to, and in fact refused, to go on the road after 1976. Frankly that was his choice, if you want to quit a job after 16 years its your right-how is that wrong? He had a right to do that just as much as Levon had a right to leave in 1965 because he didnt like what they were doing then. Frankly Curtis you say Peter isnt seeing both sides, but you seem to see things %100 as Levon is right and RR is wrong-not both sides. Because I dont think either or lying, nor do I think either is %100 right or wrong. Hell, hardly anyone, or any situation is %100 one way or the other. As for the who wrote the songs, if the rest believe they deserve equal credit it doesnt explain why Garth referred to RR as the songwriter during TLW interviews just last year and RIck did during interviews up til the end of his life. They heavily contributed to the way The Band played "The Weight" but their input had nothing to do with the way Cassandra Wilson or Aretha Franklin play it-which is why they have performance payments and songwriting payments. Now if ya want to argue that RR should have thrown some credit there way for their input because they were this "Band of Brothers" so many here like to mythologisize about, then that is a different arguement. But then you have to answer why non of the songs that list Levon, Rick or Richard throw the rest of the guys credit either.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 00:56:55 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

Curtis Blue

Mr. Viney-You made my point very well for me, One man can tell the story, the other makes it into poetry, Sort of like a collaboration, both should get credit. Thats the point of contention between the two sides. Interesting.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 00:23:48 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Let me correct my typo.... "democracy".

Judy....you are a fool. Now we all should know that Levon basically learned the drums on the road. Ronnie needed a drummer so Levon learned drums, as I remember it. But let us imagine Levon never left Arkansas, or never left the south, or never became famous. Noone, but noone, who has a millimeter of musical fiber in his or her being, or a musical side to his or her soul, would ever forget the sound of Levon's drums. No way could Levon Helm ever have been a forgotten drummer. You, Miss Judy, are a non musical slouch, and a mean spirited sourpuss.

Robbie allow Levon back into the Band? Are you out of your mind? Robbie probably threw a fucking party when he heard Levon was returning.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 00:14:02 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Entered at Mon Jun 2 00:10:10 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Judy, while I have not the slighest idea who you are, I can say that there is nothing judicious about your tone, your choice of words, or what you have written. I will add that it smacks of ignorance, as you obviously have zero knowledge, be it first hand, secondhand, or intuitive, of how the Band worked. Robbie did not allow anyone to play or sing anything. You can bet your ass that the method by how it was decided whom sang or played what had more to do with feel and democaracy of a sorts that was related to the way these guys worked up songs once upon a time. And the once upon a time in question in your last post was the first 2 albums. What happened later was different.

And let us get something straight right now. I loved and love Rick and Richard's voices, their musical talent and their musical contribution just as much as that of Levon. And I loved their spirit I might add. But Levon Helm was born to sing "The Night they Drove Old Dixie Down" and "The Weight". No discussion is necessary or valid.

Entered at Mon Jun 2 00:08:59 CEST 2003 from cpe-65-25-199-100.mn.rr.com (65.25.199.100)

Dave Z

Rick S: Is Mike DeMicco back playing with the Crowmatix? I can't keep track of the in and outs... depending on where they tour... but I do wish they'd pass thru MN... I think they'd get a good reception... anyway, I look forward to the CD...

Feud = Boring... and it usually starts up following some RR news... sad thing is, a lot of female lurkers who add great color to this place seem to briefly show up with the RR news... and then probably disappear when the shit starts gettin' slung... or people give them too much crap... maybe the fueders should pause occassionally...

Entered at Sun Jun 1 23:53:51 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

Ed Voci

Subject: Jeff who can't read the USS or "universal smiley sign" or :-)

There was a :-) at the end of my post as in "I'm jokin' with ya", so don't hit me with the politically-correct-over-sensitive crap. Answer your phone and I'll tell ya more. Naw, I'll tell you now. You're like all fuggin' songwriters. You all get weird if anyone says anthing, even in jest, about your work. Get over it, blues man. Real blues men don't whine. Actually, I could be wrong here, whining of sorts is what the whole genre is about.:-) :-) :-) :-) Did you see the four USS things?

Since you won't answer your phone, did your friend get that gift package I sent at your request?

I'll be sending in a market report later this week to tell you whether "School for Fools" plays in Peoria...literally.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 23:45:55 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-027.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.27)

Peter Viney

Curtis – one guy can tell a story, another can make it into poetry (or lyrics). Anyway, half those stories are Ronnie’s. Have you heard ‘The Complete Last Waltz?’ This makes it pretty plain to me that most, but maybe not all of the time, Robbie’s mike was open. Another calumny. Robbie is not as accomplished a singer as the three main singers, I agree, but he IS highly effective and none of them could have done Somewhere Down The Crazy River as well as Robbie did. Only Richard could have sung Fallen Angel as well as Robbie, but I thought that was what Robbie got across in the song so beautifully.

Serge & Roger: I did look up the website on the Moseley show. I’m not going to make it – I’ll be back, but I’m seeing Van Morrison at Larmer Tree Festival on the Friday and my daughter has a big party here on the Saturday and we’re going to run over into a general family party on the Sunday while we’re about it. BUT I was genuinely interested. There used to be gypsy bands at the huge Dorset Steam Rally in Blandford in the first week in September, and I’ll look to see if there are any this time around. It makes a change from Adge Cutler & The Wurzels who are always present at this “working of steam traction engines” (actually, an excuse for a huge country fair). Another question, one I’ve asked before, the word “gypsy” is considered politically incorrect in the UK, the term Rrom being preferred in official papers. These bands seemingly aren’t hung up on the terminology? Good for them, but to me typing “gypsy” is mildly rude. So a further question. My Collins French-English dictionary gives ‘gypsy’ as the French for ‘gypsy.’ (and vice versa). I just looked it up. I always thought ‘Citane’ (as in the pungent brand of cigarettes) meant gypsy. Or was this yet another lie from my schoolteachers? One of many, if so.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 23:32:36 CEST 2003 from 1cust218.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.218)

Judge Judy

Subject: Levon the Duck

I don't think Robbie has rolled off of Levon's back:

The congenial Southern gentleman who is quick to laugh... and only seems unhappy when recalling his later years with The Band, particularly The Last Waltz, Martin Scorsese's documentary of the group's final performance at Winterland in San Francisco on Thanksgiving of 1976. "It's a big damn rip-off," Helm says of the film. "It's pretty much a story of Robbie Roberston and Scorsese falling in love with each other and how much money they were going to make out of it."

This is from a recent article in the Long Island Press listed in the What's New? section. I think Levon is lucky that Robbie allowed him to sing "Dixie" and "The Weight" as both Rick and Richard could've done them well and I think Levon is lucky Robbie let him back into the Band after he walked out on the 66 Dylan tour. No one would know who Levon is except for Robbie allowing him to sing those 2 songs, he'd just be another forgotten drummer.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 23:28:04 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Curtis Blue

Subject: Jeff

Jeff-I could have saved myself the hour it took me to write my post, "Levon is the Happiest man in the world" You said it all Brother, Bravo. Oh, And the best damn drummer ever

Entered at Sun Jun 1 23:22:35 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Curtis Blue

Subject: The Band

Sam- I think you hit it on the head when Robbie said goodbye, at the begining of the film I might add, a rehearsed line. I think It angered Levon to no end. This was how Levon, Garth, Richard, and Danko made their living. Robbie was the only one that wanted to stop, he wanted to get off the road.The others needed to keep working, they were not rich, Robbie had 90% of the publishing. So I think thats the basis of Levons anger. His living was being stopped, in one of the greatest Bands of all time and it was over. watch him during that movie, he is pissed the whole time, except when he is playing. Robbie recounts the story of when they met Sonny Boy, that is Levons story, told it a million times, Robbie told it like it was his own.The fact that Robbie found it necessary to "Fake" sing the whole movie (his microphone was never on) that it not only rubbed the singers in the Band the wrong way, butI think they found it insulting. I think Sam, that there has been bitterness for decades. In 1983 when they were reforming they wanted Robbie to go out with them, they were out of money, being working men they wanted to go work at what they loved. Not only did Robbie refuse but he tried and threatened to block them from using the name. So I think thats where the final rift happened. Levon is one of the happiest people I know,he is an artist not a business man. No crime there. Dylan said once, you can steal more with a pen than with a sword. This goes back to the days of Albert Grossman, these guys were promised ownership in Bear Studio, hell, it was Band money that built it. Nothing.

Ray- When Garth and Levon did the voice over work they were both bankrupt and in need of money, again promised that their share of the Last Waltz was coming,they were told that it never made money on VHS or Theater release but when it got to DVD, it was bound to see a profit.8.25 Million gross on soundscan.Has to be profit there somewhere....... Nothing. Lots of broken promise's and dreams and who is in charge of this mess? Who is the one writing the checks and liner notes for yet another box set? If there is smoke.

Mr. Viney-I find you a highly intelligent man, you don't have both sides of the story, and when you do I believe as the brilliant man that I think you are, you will think this not only "not done to death" but very eye opening, actually shocking will be a better word for it. Over the next two years many things will come to light.

As far as song writing, I disagree with your position as to who writes what. If one man speaks and another writes his words down, who then is the writer? I believe it is the man who speaks, the other is a secretary. What are your thoughts? I am interested in hearing them if you still find this of interest.(i am a terrible speller, forgive me)

Entered at Sun Jun 1 23:06:02 CEST 2003 from ac910e49.ipt.aol.com (172.145.14.73)

Rick S.

Subject: Professor & The Crowmatix At The Turning Point

Nice to see a packed house at The Turning Point Saturday night for Professor Louie and The Crowmatix. This was the best I've seen them play. Miss Marie was in her element belting out soulfully. Mike Demicco also earned a gold star with his guitar solos. Burkey was great all night and I could listen to "Mr. Luck" every night of the week. Every show they pay tribute to Rick Danko which is always the highlight for me. Thanks Aaron and the band for a very enjoyable evening (and for signing the picture). Oh, Dave Z., I think you'll enjoy the "Live" CD. The addition of the horns, Bones Malone and Lou Marini, makes it for me.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 22:23:42 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Entered at Sun Jun 1 21:51:49 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Lil, thanks. In that last post of yours you included the phrase "over and over again". The phrase reminded of a Richie Furay song, I believe from his "I Got A Reason" Cd. In his song, the pharase might of been "over and over and over again". Calvin, can you hit me with the song title? Was that with Tom Stipe, Al Perkins, Billy Mehler on drums. I know I have to up the dosage on those memory directed vitamins, but I am trying to figure out how just how much?

Entered at Sun Jun 1 21:44:13 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Tracy - Nothing personal here, but I'd feel the same way about tattoos of Hitler or O.J. Simpson. One could say they too did some pretty marvelous and talented things until they let THEIR knives get out of hand. Some folks just don't mind fire until they feel the heat.

As for Robber writing all the songs, it seems to me that The Last Waltz was more about the visual images in the movie and the phenomena that occurred when all those musical geniuses worked in unison. If it was solely about one person's song writing, then why didn't Robber just sit on the stage and sing his songs solo? Rick Danko was the only person who could pull that off in my opinion, and he got screwed also. Nothing personal though.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 21:34:10 CEST 2003 from mcha-ae041.taconic.net (205.231.29.169)

Lil

Entered at Sun Jun 1 21:19:45 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

It's interesting what Beth said - that she didn't see anyone in TLW movie as being egotistical - until she came here. I feel the same. When I first saw the movie, many years ago, Robbie came off to me as the guy that was sort of keeping the show flowing. But when it came to the band, and stage presence, I got a pretty strong impression of all the guys. Rick came across to me very strong. He was right up front and doing a lot of singing. Thinking back, I remember Levon coming across as a strong vocal presence - and Rick & Robbie being out front.

I find the end of TLW a very interesting thing to study. Robbie says, "goodnight - goodbye", and he meant it. The other guys walk from the stage like it's the end of any other concert. Richard comes across the front of the stage and smiles and waves. But what are the guys thinking? Did they really feel it was over? They obviously worked together after that. Where they going to keep making records ala the Beatles - and just not tour? The only thing that comes to mind is Scorcese asking Rick what his plans are in the "Sip The Wine" scene. Rick almost seems unsure to me there. And a bit sad too......Maybe part of Levon's anger is because Robbie really did mean "goodnight - goodbye".......I still refuse to believe that RR consiously tried to "screw" his former bandmates. Now please, Robbie bashers, don't go nuts. I know how you feel - but you won't change my mind. If he wrote the songs, and he took care of buisness to ensure he owned, and controlled them - good for him. He saved himself from going through a John Fogerty situation.

There are so many "maybes" regarding Levon's seemingly late surge of bitterness. Was he so damn naive up to that point? Maybe a strand dose of reality set in in some form. Maybe some of his anger should be directed at himself. I don't know.

Money! It's all about money.

Hey - did everyone wish Levon a Happy Birthday?

Entered at Sun Jun 1 21:09:43 CEST 2003 from mcha-ae041.taconic.net (205.231.29.169)

Lil Again

Have a good afternoon.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 21:06:48 CEST 2003 from mcha-ae041.taconic.net (205.231.29.169)

Lil

Entered at Sun Jun 1 21:02:39 CEST 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

Now now, Ed! One of my best friends is a lawyer. You. You hardheaded , oversensitive, overpolitically correct schmendrick that you are. I still like you. There is nary a antilawyer lyric in any of my published songs. And an argument cannot be made that the lyrics are in anti lawyer context , which will probably be your next argument.

neither

"Pay me now or pay your lawyer" in School For Fools

or

"my woman left me

hired a big time attorney.

says she gonna make me pay

pay for eternity"

in "My Woman Left Me" can be said to have even a hint of anti attorney sentiment.

I thought Calabrese were supposed to be hardheaded. Does oversensitive fall under the hardheaded umbrella? Stop the witch hunt please. While you are an integrous person, you are overcooked on some of this stuff.

I do join you in congratulating Aaron on the release of another CD. Professor Louie did get the job done for The Band, and was resolute and inexhaustible in his efforts and loyalty to Rick, Garth, and Levon. His love for those guys is unchanging, although other things change.

You are absolutely right. Although a lot of people do not know it, fans of the Band do owe Lou big thanks. I have to point out, though, that prior to the Souveneirs (spellcheck?) Cd, I do not believe Aaron had any involvement with any Levon solo cds. But he did have a lot to do with some non cd related projects. Aaron knows his way around the music business, does not tell tales, and does not try to keep people down so he can keep himself up. Aaron will help anybody who is legitimate and for real. He gets where he is going on his own merits, all the time being nice to those around him. Not too common in the music business.

Regarding the feud, I am staying out of the discussion. I can understand that people new to the subject would have interest in it. But I am just plain feuded out.

Back to Ed Voci. You once remarked about Levon smiling at you from the Crow's Nest cd display. I have a story to tell about Levon's smile. No time to tell it now, it is a long story. But I will tell it another time. Although it is related to the recording sessions in St Louis, it is in no way meant to be an effort on my part to sell cds. Nothing I write in here is. If anyone wants to think that is the case, well, let em. Since the first time I heard the Band as a kid, their sound, feel, whatever you want to call it, has been part of the oxygen I breathe. So here i am, like the rest of you happy or unhappy idiots. "Happy fools", as I like to say, and often do. I just been lucky to have some interaction, and it is going to come up some time.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 20:31:42 CEST 2003 from (206.186.13.196)

Serge

Did you check out my post about the Birmingham fest.Roger ?

Viney, if you're back in time from the US. do try to make it to that event. Very curious to read what you thought of it.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 20:19:40 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-083.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.83)

Peter Viney

Hi Curtis – I never said I had any answers, nor that I’d seen anything. I just believe you have to listen to both sides of a dispute and we’ve only ever heard one. The point about the music business is that the really safe money is in publishing / writing, which is why John and Paul were so much richer than Ringo. It’s true every time, and the cause of much trouble. But in the end, that’s the way it always has been, and the songwriters feel it’s just. I do too. While no one condones the poverty of Motown’s great session men, they were underpaid and cheated as musicians, not as “writers”. They never deserved a share of Smokey or Marvin’s publishing. The Band enjoyed some big paydays. Robbie was perhaps a bit cannier with his share. My reading is that the three singers felt that they had contributed with less work on the studio side than Robbie and Garth - I get that from Levon’s own account in fact. When the singer isn’t the principal writer, that’s another potential cause for dissent (see Daltrey & Townsend). I guess none of us know what money deals they did. But 20% of recording and performing would always be a lot less than 90% of the publishing plus 20% of recording / performing. (We did once work out Robbie’s share of the song publishing among the five – it was around 90%). Inevitably when a songwriter leaves a band, or even The Band, they realize that while their old colleagues are irreplaceable and unique talents, you can bring in other hugely talented people too – as Robbie has with Manu Katche, Peter Gabriel, Blue Nile, Tony Levin, Bruce Hornsby, Ivan Neville, Neil Young. What Robbie’s solo stuff really misses is those voices and Garth’s touch of magic. Levon is my all-time favourite drummer, but if I were a songwriter I’d feel just about as content with my next favourite drummer, Steve Gadd in the chair. But the voices are certainly not replaceable.

Leonard Cohen – definitely should have been mentioned with Neil and Joni as Canada’s “equal second greatest songwriters”. Personally, when I listen to Alexandra Leaving, Tower of Song or Bird on a Wire, all on a favourite in-car CDR which also has Somewhere Down the Crazy River, Breaking The Rules and Fallen Angel, I’d almost put him up there with Robbie … but not quite. Only by a hairs breadth though. Apologies!

Ray – in the academic world, honorary degrees are clearly delineated though. Different letters after the name, you can’t call yourself doctor etc. You wouldn’t get a job lecturing in music on the basis of an honorary degree etc. You can always tell the difference. Not to detract from the work on research degrees (American Studies was my subject too) , but if your work is the subject of others’ doctoral theses, you have to be worth a doctorate yourself. What the university is saying is that the 35 years body of work is the equivalent of a doctorate. Fair point, I think.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 19:57:06 CEST 2003 from (207.236.25.220)

Bat Masterson

Subject: To Diamond Lil

Hi Di..mond Lil, The guestbook was shut down a few months ago, prior to this recent skirmish. Since you seem to know it all, would you enlighten us as to who and what caused that one. You didn't bother to explain that one. Were anyone's "proverbial" balls involved?

Have a special day.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 18:48:56 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Ed Voci

Subject: Buddy Guy, who should be the next mayor of Chicago; senior musicians; PutEmUp (Jeff)

This article (see "My Link",above] focuses on Buddy Guy and his new acoustic recording, but it touches on Ralph Stanley and the Buen Vista Social Club phenomenon in addressing how more senior recording artists are presented.

While on the issue of senior musicians, here's an interesting article about classical musicians and the toll taken by constantly performing, among other things relating to musical longevity. http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/arts/chi-0306010312jun01,1,1455371.story

No, Jeff, I don't know anyone at Tower Records. You'd better send more "Schools for Fools" cuz the Chicago Blues Fest is happening and hordes of people will be in Crow's Nest. Btw, I noticed the anti-lawyer references in your songs. Some guys will do anything to sell CDs, I guess. :-) Eddie V

Entered at Sun Jun 1 18:00:27 CEST 2003 from 130.43.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.43.130)

Ray Pence

Lil, thank you for replying and I like your point...especially since I'm earning a doctorate these days (not in law, however, American Studies)...

The post about the video commentary on the Last Waltz DVD brought up something I forgot---after all the bad blood of the past ten years, all the charges of ripoff and exploitation, Garth and Levon sit down in 2001 or 2002 and do a commentary track so they can help make RR, and only RR, a richer man???

I'm lousy at math, but this just doesn't add up...

Entered at Sun Jun 1 17:49:54 CEST 2003 from 213-48-241-177.liv.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk (213.48.241.177)

Al Edge

First apologies to my GB friends for not keeping in touch. As ever there's no real excuse but I've a legion of them anyroad. :-o) Sound excuses too. The latest being that my son stole my pc. Seriously. And the chair that goes with it too. And he insisted on me and the missus providing him with sustenance on a regular basis whilst he indulged himself - including Scouse pie Jeff :-o). The fact that he's twenty nine and six foot five tall and weighs in at 180 pounds is a factor in all this. Basically if he decides to come home and use the pc then that's what transpires.

Right onto my personal ego trip.

I've seen Bruce THREE times this week. Yes folks. Self indulgence to the extreme I know but ...I'm only human and what the hell else do we work our balls off for?

Twice in South London and once in smelly Manchester. Actually that last comment was unfair. The Manchester gig was the best I've ever seen anywhere. Clocking in at whopping non-stop 3 hours 13 minutes it was simply exhilarating beyond words.

I went with family and friends including my handicapped cousin of 46 years whose social existence is basically limited to going out for saturday morning breakfast with us or to the odd concert or football match. Anyroad it has put our dear Stevie on a high from which he may never come down. A fixed inane grin was still spread across his gob yesterday morning as he scoffed tea and toast some 48 hours after Bruce wooed the ass offa him and most everyone else.

Bruce was simply remarkable at all three gigs. Not forgetting his magnificent band of course. To witness this man is not simply a musical experience. The entire sprawl of his show - and his recorded repertoire for that matter - is a demonstration that his ethos - 'Nobody wins unless EVERYBODY wins' - is not just fancy posturing but an utter heartfelt conviction he is determined to live out before your very eyes. His music is only part of the equation. Whilst each of his epics expounds and explores every crevice of this theme of 'inclusion/exclusion', the sheer presence of the man and the lifeforce he pours into every note and lyric of his performance is the tangible proof that he is offering his very being to each and every one present who cares to partake in the communion. The cynical wonder what all the fuss is about. Meanwhile those with a more emotional genetic composition - Scousers are especially vulnerable as you may have gathered - simply spiral heavenwards on an upturned maelstrom of rock'n'roll nirvana. Hallelujah.

More ego trip affrontery

Believe it or not tonight my missus and me are off to the King's Dock on Liverpool's magnificent waterfront to pay our respects to one of Bruce's original heroes. One Paul McCartney bids farewell to the world of mammoth touring tonight from his home city. There is, of course, no way Macca can emulate Bruce on stage. Nor should he even try. His own legacy of three minute masterpieces means he only has to show up in Liverpool for it too to be something truly magical.

Next week I'm back in werk. Isn't life a fu ckin bitch eh? ;-o)

Entered at Sun Jun 1 17:31:04 CEST 2003 from 0-1pool161-27.nas2.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net (65.128.161.27)

Another Peter

Peter V. : Should Leonard Cohen be included in your apologies to list?

Butch: Would love to get your take on "The Incident at Red Bank".

Entered at Sun Jun 1 16:48:06 CEST 2003 from inktomi2-cdf.server.ntl.com (62.252.32.5)

Beth

For what it’s worth, I quite like what one writer said about not taking sides until you’ve heard both of them. I think I read an interview with Rick Danko somewhere on this site (can’t find the article any more, but I’m sure it was here I saw it) where he said he was just a ‘thankful person’. Don’t you think that’s nice? I’m sure he got it right. Let’s just be thankful for the music and not let side-taking detract from it. I’m sure it must do, a bit. I mean, I’m a relatively new Band-fan (as in a couple of years, maybe - my parents bought me some cds for my 17th birthday because they were getting worried about my exposure to bad modern music), and I only bought The Last Waltz video the other day – and it’s amazing. Surely someone as cynical as I’ve heard a lot of people in here say Robbie Robertson is couldn’t stand up there and so obviously *enjoy* himself?

When I watched it (and I accept I might be wrong) I was struck by just how much they all seemed to be playing the music for the music’s sake, so I was surprised to read that various members were just ‘acting’. I didn’t think they were. I thought, the first time I watched it, that one thing that made these guys so different from every other live performance (or video of one) I’ve ever seen was that they weren’t prancing around and pandering to the audience – you know, I thought they’d probably be pretty much the same if they were playing in a barn or something. And one of my favourite bits in the whole thing is that bit at the end of The Night They Drove Old Dixie down, when Levon’s singing “and all the people were singing” and there’s a shot of Rick, sort of weaving around. He’s great! It’s kind of contagious. You know, they’re grinning away and all of a sudden you find you are too. And man, if I feel like that from just watching the video on a very small tv screen, just imagine how it must have been to be there live. That’s the only sense of sadness I ever get from watching it: that I’ll never be able to see them play live. I genuinely didn’t see Robbie or anyone else as an egotistical frontman trying to get all the camera shots – at least, I didn’t until I came here! And that’s not like an accusation or anything, it’s just odd how other people perceive something so different to others. I’m probably being deliberately naïve, but who cares. I like my illusion that they were *all* very nice people, and I’d quite like to keep it!

Anyway thanks to the creator of this website for such a lovely place to come and find out about/discuss The Band. Incidentally, would anyone be able to tell me where that article about Rick I mentioned is on here? Or was I imagining it? Thanks.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 16:30:02 CEST 2003 from ool-4352ed70.dyn.optonline.net (67.82.237.112)

Brien Sz

When was it that RR bought back the rights the Band cataloge? And didn't Levon not sell his stock?

Could it also be that in 1983 when the Band was reforming that the money they had was running out? Could it be that RR had given some trouble (behind the scenes) to the reformation of the group without him and wanted to be compensated for the use of the group name and songs.

I wonder to, since perception is that Levon is not a "suit" guy, if business dealings in the music business at that juncture, between putting the group back on the road, RR's lack of participation, no sponsors and other financial matters really clouded what he obviously wanted to do and that was simply go on the road and play music. Is it possible that he didn't see the long term investment of songwriting credits and feels he brought more to the party than he was compensated for? Then by 1983, when his end of the money was running low, RR's count was still substantial? There is the reality that LEvon is just not a good businessman. That is not to infer he's a bad guy but some people are just not good business folks.

Peter V hit on an interesting note. After Levon left the group, there was a power shift. RR took control and never gave it up. Levon may have been the spirit of sorts, the more charasmatic player but he was never the power behind the crown after he bolted the group.

I looked at Levon's history and wonder if he was better being the big fish in a small pond rather than a little fish in a big pond. The Hawks, in reality, were a "B" level group. They toured clubs and played kick ass music but never were "big". When they left the Hawks and Levon was in charge, they were basically the same entity with a new title. Levon was charamatic and a powerful precence but in a small environment. When they were finally picked up by Dylan, he couldn't handle the adversity and bolted. When he came back, he brought the same energy and personality but he was now in a much bigger arena and he may never have totally adapted to it, especially in a business sense. On stage, he was and is a dynamo but in the board room it's a whole nother game, something of which he had little to no experience in dealing with when it was the Hawks. There's a world of difference in dealing with club owner's who want to pack there bars and sell beer than dealing with record companies who want to pack arena's, market and make millions while trying to pay the artist as little as possible. RR seemed to adapt to the latter better than Levon....., Just a few rambling thoughts.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 16:05:28 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

Curtis Blue

Subject: Last Waltz

Mr. Viney, Ok so where is the profit? If as you say Levon says the others sold their shares, but he did not, where is his 20%?

I can see Robbie getting an honorary degree in music, he deserves that, but in Law? It is silly and not appropriate. You question if Bill Johnson has seen any of the agreements or paper work between Band members, have you? Or is your information second hand and hear say like everyone elses here?

Thanks in advance for your answers

Entered at Sun Jun 1 15:53:47 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-084.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.84)

Peter Viney

I had to check - Robertson Davies attended Queen's University, and I believe it is the source of the fictional university in The Saltford Trilogy - an early work, and maybe not as interesting as the later trilogies, but nonetheless I find it fitting that we at last have another link (apart from the shared name Robertson) between Canada's greatest writer and greatest songwriter (sorry, Neil and Joni - you both came close). Also excellent photos of Robbie under What's New enjoying it.

I'm sure Amanda's right in that 1983 was the pivotal year and true starting point of the feud (rather than 1976). Though maybe it was when Levon left in 1965, or returned in late1967 to find the heirarchy had shifted a bit. 1983 was when The Band reformed. Looking back it's odd to see that they needed the complete Cate Bros so every role (except Robbie's) was duplicated, but most reformed bands have more support musicians than in their heyday. The Rolling Stones obviously, but most are a little "augmented".

Entered at Sun Jun 1 14:37:48 CEST 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1c-138.hhe.adelphia.net (68.168.204.138)

Amanda

Tracy: I have everything related to TLW, but the new vinyl release by Rhino. I really wanted Garth's and Levon's autograph too, so I had to pass. I have a copy of the old TLW vinyl, so that will do me fine...real fine. I don't think Levon would want to deny any of his fans the experience of TLW. That film is a part of his life's work. I'm sure he realizes what it means to the people who dig his music. If someone chooses not to buy anything related to TLW or the remasters, that is a personal decision, not Levon's choice. I think I read somewhere, possibly the alt.music.the-band site, that Levon and Garth were paid for the commentaries on the DVD...maybe that is why Levon participated.

I wish I had time to go back through the archives to find all the feud tidbits. I would have to stay up all night and baby, I need sleep right now. Personally, I have been through all the songwriting discussions. I have come to my own conclusions about what I believe and so have most of you. I don't think any of us are going to be swayed in the opposite direction of what we believe to be fair or right. The new posters of course will enjoy this issue, but I warn you...it can get very theatrical and hurtful at times. Proceed at your own risk. I think we could all get to the bottom of many more issues if we could just...in the back of our minds...remember that the other human being's opinions are valuable...try to see where they are coming from.

The question that really interests me now is the one that pops up frequently regarding why around 1983, did Levon's attitude change towards Robbie? I'll be perfectly honest here...it is very important to me to keep Levon's honor intact. I believe many people have tried to chip away at his integrity over this one question. I don't find Levon to be a perfect man and I don't find him to be a bitter man, but I do see him as completely human in spite of his enormous musical gifts. Do you think we can come up with something about 1983 in a civilized manner? I realize we can only go so far since most of us don't know/have never known any Band members or in fact were not witnesses to any transactions.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 13:18:04 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

PutEmUp (Jeff)

#1 Calvin, absolootly, we are still friends.

#2 The only burnt cds I have ever accepted from a friend was a)a cd burnt by a participant in 2 of the 3 projects on the cd. The reason he burned it for me was so I could listen to the mixes of the projects. This was back when I was considering with whom and in which studio I was going to mix my project. b)a burnt cd of Muddy at Woodstock, with Levon, Garth, Bob Margolin etc. In this case I figured it would not be the end of the world. Joe gave it to me the first time I saw him after my sessions in St Louis. Said Levon told him to make a copy for me. Since I have supported Muddy and the Band forever, my conscience is still clear. No, I do not accept burnt cds. I do trade my cd for other cds, but my friends know not to burn cds for me, and that it is a subject I feel strongly about.

Incidentally, I have meaning to ask this of a lot of you. Nobody talks about the difference in sound quality too often. Do any of you folk bother listening to vinyl any more? There is a huge difference in sound quality. Vinyl records are still being made, Sprinsteens "the Rising", Dylan's 'Love and Theft" being two recent major releases available on vinyl.

Unfortunately I doubt cds will disappear, but it would sure be nice. A major resurgence of vinyl would make the burning issue less costly.

No offense meant to anybody with the "Honest Injun" remark. However, with regard to the feud, "Honest Injun" may be a mutually exclusive comment. Now I am a Jew, so I can really compound this politically incorrect remark and get away with it by adding, throw in a half Jew , half-native Indian saying "Trust Me" , and how's that for a Band inspired scouse pie of stereotypical audio/visual hodgepodge? Nobody else may give a rat's ass, but I know Al Edge is thrilled at the scouse pie reference. And I am ssure that Ed Voci is calling the ACLU right now. But, what the hell? Ed is used to me by now. Ed says the Crow's Nest in Chicago has included "School For Fools" in their best sellers display. That in and of itself proves that disc burning has ruined the record industry/ Or it proves that Ed will possibly be the next mayor of Chicago, and /or that he is just as good at shoveling shit as he is at practicing law. Thanks Ed! Do you know anyone at Tower Records?

Entered at Sun Jun 1 12:41:31 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Ed Voci

Subject: John D, payday for TLW; Prof. Louie & The Crowmatix

John D asked if The Band was paid for the actual performance of TLW. Earlier this year I posted quotes from Bill Graham's biography, in which he excoriates RR, but also states that he, BG,not only paid The Band for their performace, but gave them each a few thousand extra after the show was over.

Congrats to Prof. Louie & The Crowmatix on their new CD. Louie, without you we never would have had Jericho, High On The Hog or Jubiliation or the Danko and Helm solo recordings. Great records. You carry the torch. Thank you.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 12:39:22 CEST 2003 from tnt-77-115.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.115)

Tracy

Sorry, I meant to say Queens University IN Kingston.

Tracy

(those 6:30am. posts) ;)

Entered at Sun Jun 1 12:31:46 CEST 2003 from tnt-77-115.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.115)

Tracy

If there's blame to be passed for Robbie's "Law Degree," shouldn't Kingston, University shoulder the blame? Why doesn't anybody let them know what they think of Robbie? Better yet, send them a book of Levon's "This Wheel's On Fire," just like all the rest of the folks get their information from.

Dale - What's with the personal problem with somebody's tattoo? It's not YOUR back that had to suffer the pain. I'm sure if it was Levon on her back, you'd be jumping for joy. Enough with the personal crap. Jan shut down this guestbook before due to the nastiness between members (I don't know who though since I scroll to see Band related posts only). Have we not learned anything from it? It's one thing to attack band members you don't know, it's another to pick on fans of them?

I'm guessing that with all of this feud nonsense that the people complaining about "The Last Waltz" never bothered to pick it up in the format of the soundtrack or video or even the 25th Anniversary. You know, if you do, Levon might be upset with you. Then again, can somebody explain why he did the commentary on the DVD audio portion if he despises the movie so much? Why would he do that? Or is this something that Robbie MADE him do? ;)

Tracy

Entered at Sun Jun 1 12:21:21 CEST 2003 from du-tele3-103.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.103)

Peter Viney

I think the suggestion “I will now go” should be programmed in as unacceptable. Don’t do it. If you’re interested in The Band, stick around.

On the feud (or fued as it is now spelled here), some kind soul with a high-speed connection could trawl the archives and assemble a “Major points on the feud” article and “Major points on the songwriting issue” article, which would save time. It has truly been done to death but is probably the most fascinating area for newcomers, and it’s a fair point that it’s irritating when we old-timers say ‘We did that.’ So a quick rehash of my main points. Oldies scroll by. As has been explained many times, arranging is not songwriting, so that Diana Ross’s “The Weight” is “The Weight” without Levon, Gath, Richard, Rick and Robbie’s contributions to The Band version. Different guitars, bass, drum, keyboards etc. Still the same song. What makes it the same song (melody line and lyrics) is what is copyrightable. There are solid quotes from both Garth and Rick stating that “Robbie wrote the songs.” Levon might not agree, but Robbie has said “Levon never wrote a song” and post-TLW songwriting supports the view that Robbie was the writer. Garth and Rick have supported that view. Rick did have a few anti-Robbie quotes especially on the 1994 tour, but no one has drawn Garth into making any, and later quotes from Rick agree that Robbie wrote the songs. They were there. They were also there for a very creative basement writing period with Dylan but without Levon.

On money. Levon contradicts himself. He says the others sold out their shares in The Band but he didn’t. Then he says he never got paid. Robbie has also said he never got paid for the original TLW – spending more than he recovered. They all got a cash “tip” on the night from from Bill Graham, which caused resentment from Robbie. As Muddy has said TLW film / video was a great payday, it might have been better to be on a straightforward deal as a performer than to be on a share of the profits instead! This is highly possible. As far as we can tell, the post production on TLW was mainly done by Robbie and Garth. The same was said to be true of their later albums. So Garth, who worked longest and most closely on the post-production of TLW and NLSC is the least critical. Interesting. Recently about a year was spent remastering and cleaning up TLW, and mixing it into 5.1. Again, by Robbie. If it has finally turned a profit after 25 years then it’s well deserved.

Honorary degrees. Yes, they can be political- Oxford University famously refused to award one to Margaret Thatcher, who as an Oxford graduate, was entitled to ask for one. This is reported to be due to the perceived adverse effect she had had on education both as Minister for Education and then as Prime Minister. It would have been against their ancient charter to award her one, as the charter states that the purpose of the university is the furtherance of education. This was highly controversial at the time. However, honorary degrees are also awarded to people who have achieved enormous things, but who have not gone down the ‘straight’ educational route. Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Robbie Robertson and Van Morrison are all widely-read self-educated people who have made a major contribution to the English Language. They are as deserving of a doctorate as someone who has assembled the letters of a 17th century poet into chronological order. I suspect that it is a Doctor of Law because the university has a restricted set of doctoral titles. Some have a doctorate of music to offer, others don’t. In the UK a common honorary degree is D. Litt (or Doctor of Letters) which distinguishes it from a Ph.D / D. Phil awarded by normal research and thesis. Doctor of Law might be the same – only used for honorary degrees? Depends on the university. You’re not supposed to use the title “Dr” based on an honorary degree, I believe.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 07:42:44 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

In the end, it's not about what great things you do in your life, but about how you treat your fellow man. It's about Love and Honor. Maybe the man can somehow, someway redeem himself before it's too late. Let's all pray for that to happen, shall we? Now, back to the music.....My first Band show was in '86 at the Center Stage Theater in Atlanta, GA, very shortly before Richard died. Robbie was absent, but what else was new. I'd been listening to and hearing about the band from my older brother for years and years but had not had the opportunity to attend a show. Regrettably for her, my wife wasn't up to it that night so I invited my bro and we went and saw a famously gut wrenching show. I'd heard the stories and listened to the records over and over but was totally blown away by these guys. Really nothing describes it as many of you know. I was a Dead Head by nature, but this was in a class all by itself. They reach in, grab your heart and soul and make it their own. Just an incredible experience to say the least. Can't put it into words really. I guess that's their legacy. Only those who saw and heard them live know what I'm talking about. It's not about the music. It's about the soul. It's about feelings and giving and taking and being in the groove without trying. The Zone. Spontaneous Combustion, Baby. Surreal. So we leave the show, but it sticks with me hard for days and days. I can't get it out of my mind. Then I read the paper very shortly thereafter. What a horrific loss. But I learned that night what we all know to be true - that these guys were/are IT. The Pure Vein. Nirvana. The Real, Real Deal. I can only imagine what it was like in the early days, but I know I caught a glimpse of perfection that night and I will never forget it. Long Live The Band!

"I was madly in love with Richard. At the time, [1975] we had the same troubles. I felt insecure and he was clearly insecure, and yet he was so incredibly gifted. For me he [Richard] was the true light of the Band. The other guys were fantastic talents, of course, but there was something of the holy madman about Richard. He was raw. When he sang in that high falsetto the hair on my neck would stand on end. Not many people can do that." --Eric Clapton

Entered at Sun Jun 1 06:51:41 CEST 2003 from 1cust222.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.222)

Judy

Entered at Sun Jun 1 06:42:00 CEST 2003 from 1cust25.tnt3.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.153.25)

Charlie Young

Subject: Doctor Robert (Zimmerman) & Jolly Roger

Bob Dylan received an honorary doctorate circa 1969 from Princeton, inspiring him to write the brilliant "Day of the Locusts," that turned up on the NEW MORNING album. He stole the title for the song from the great Nathaniel West novel.

I saw two solo shows by Dylan's old pal Roger McGuinn this month and they were both winners. The second concert was the first time I'd seen him from the front row--it only took 31 years! Roger says he hopes to keep playing his music on the road into his 80s like Segovia did. Roger's guitar work gets more like Segovia all the time. I saw them both play back in the 1970s and Segovia was a better guitarist than Roger was back then, but listening to McGuinn's acoustic 12-string version of "Eight Miles High" these days, it's clear that he's getting more Segovia-like all the time...

Entered at Sun Jun 1 06:33:56 CEST 2003 from arc1a-21.upland.in.hypervine.net (216.117.107.21)

Lammgurrl

Subject: Brown Eyed Girl and others

Yes, that was I who e-mailed you about Robbie. Yes, still playing guitar and the collection of them has grown.

Yes, that is my Robbie Robertson tattoo. I have several. I know of at least two posters on this forum who have seen the one between my shoulder blades. ;- )

Now, whether or not a lot of you on this forum like Robbie or not, isn't my concern. He's the one who made me want to play guitar. My art, my skin, my guitar idol...big deal.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 06:26:36 CEST 2003 from cpe-65-25-199-100.mn.rr.com (65.25.199.100)

Dave Z

The "law" part of the honorary degree thing is what really interests me the most... and makes me wonder if we have maybe not heard of some good things Robbie may be doing in the Indian community... Anyway, congrats to Robbie for his success...

I'm getting excited because I just ordered the Prof. Louie & Crowmatix live CD... and a while back, I pre-ordered the Dixie Hummingbirds one too... both should be fine listening... Praise the Lord, the good healing music, the loving folks in this GB place, the webmaster and those who contribute to the site, the sense of community surrounding those artists still playing for us... and the artists themselves... Praise the Lord!!!

And if anybody can point out another picture on this site that should be my favorite instead of "Danko checking out Adela's Band tatoo", then pleeeease let me know... Adela, you rock!!!! Nice tatoo too, really... Brooke, you rock too... I think I remember some of your posts from the RR site... btw, my favorite "text" on this site may very well be "I wanted Garth to be the first to touch it."...

Roz, I'm digging the Tom Waits vibe to your stories... but now I gotta get back to my Sweet Dreams, Roy Buchanan CD... Ga-nite friends... you made me laugh, something I haven't done in a day or too (Roz, that's an eternity for me...)~:^)

Entered at Sun Jun 1 06:11:47 CEST 2003 from netcache-2004.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.198.63)

rosalind

Question: "Why did it take Levon so long to get pissed it Robbie"?
Answer: "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

Entered at Sun Jun 1 06:03:20 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Calvin

Jeff, I apprecaite what you are saying, and to some extent I agree although I think the view is a little shortsighted. Have you ever been given a CD burned by a friend in which you liked the band\performer that didnt cause you to go out and buy more music by said performer? Ever?

But just so ya don't think I'm a criminal, Yazooman likes in India and doesn't have a CD store down the street from his house. He can't go buy the Poco CD's because there simply isnt a store anywhere near his home that sells them. So I did burn some sampler CD's for him while trading bootlegs by groups that allow bootleg trading as long as money doesnt change hands. So are we still friends?

Entered at Sun Jun 1 05:04:52 CEST 2003 from 1cust126.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (67.192.191.126)

Judge Judy

Subject: Honorary Degrees

I agree that the honorary degree thing is a sham is most cases but Bob Dylan accepted a Doctorate in Music from Yale quite a while back and I'd have to say he definitely earned it by excelling to the extreme as a songwriter.

Similarly, I'd say the same for Levon if some institution saw fit to confer a Doctor of Gripe-ology degree upon him.

Interesting to note that both Dylan and George Bush have degrees from Yale.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 03:55:22 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

PutEmUp ( Jeff)

Hey Bayou,

While your spelling may be atrocious (atroshious , if you will), your heart is always pure. Your posts are well intended, and you are not out to start shit for the sake of it.But condescending is spelled or spelt with an e, not an a. Moron you are not, so keep it coming man.

I agree with you. Some people are acting like imbeciles again, guess they have nothing better to do.

Why can't everyone take Calvin's advice, go listen to some Poco. I have only one bitch with your approach though Calvin, and this is really only a potentail bitch. I do not know if you are burning discs of whole cds, or if you are burning sampler discs. While most of you know that I have a cd out, and some of you may say that I am writing from a jaded viewpoint, let me assure you that i would have the same opinion without having a for sale cd. Really, regardless what you think of record companies, it is important not to pirate music in large quantities. Want to turn someone on to a artist, send em a sample of a few songs, and let em know where to buy the whole discs or records. What the artist makes, he, she , or they make. ANd remember, that without a record company to put out their music, alot of these people would of never been heard. Another option is to just buy a disc for someone as a gift. of course this would apply to closer friends, not web site acquaintances. But disc burning is a hazard, and it is ruining the music scene for a lot of people. And believe me, it hurts the seminal or struggling acts and labels alot more than the big labels that people love to hate so well.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 03:13:58 CEST 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1c-138.hhe.adelphia.net (68.168.204.138)

Amanda

You were a success in spelling successfully!! ;o) I spelled ecstasy wrong in my last post...who has time for spell check these days????

Regarding your question about RR putting the guys in a headlock, I ran into information recently...I wonder if anyone else knows something about it? I heard the guys agreed to trade their rights to past and future revenue in order to avoid legal proceedings generated by RR, which banned the use of "The Band" as the reformed group name.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 03:06:24 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

Subject: music +

Pete = For what it's worth - I know how you feel. You will get nowhere with the guy. Try to ignore his way. Stick around man.

One of the things I really love is when I get turned on to some musically new to me here in the 'ol GB. When Alan Lomax died, I had only heard of him in passing (no pun intended). Then I saw posts about him, and someone posted a link to Alan's site. I have since gotten so into the incredible lifes work of Alan and his father John. What these guys did for American music is amazing. I got an old book on eBay by John Lomax called "Adventures of a Ballad Hunter" - written in 1947. It's basically John's life story. I'm only in the beginning - but the adventures of him getting into finding, and documenting all the songs that were just floating around is quite amazing. I also just got his first book of collected songs. It's a later printing from 1919. Now I have to begin to get my hand on what ever recordings exist of the Lomaxs work - and I know it's a lot...... John used to ride into camps on horse back with a recorder - the kind with a wax disc and a big horn that you sang into - balanced up on the saddle in hopes of getting a recording. Cool stuff.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 02:37:58 CEST 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.252.101)

PETE T

Subject: SERGE

Serge, enough, i'am one guy, iam not Curtis and Deeb, I am no longer posting here. I felt very sorry that I lost my temper in here and that we both were the cause of the closing. We both called each other names,, you did call me a Donkey first. That ends NOW.

Dont make me part of your postings again, We don't like each other and I think alot more people would rather me go but I think maybe you should go also. You don't seam to be able to have talks with anyone without flying off the handle. That of course is up to you. I for one will never post again, except if you drag me back here again.Have your fights with Curtis and Dale and all the other people that don't like you, just leave me out.

To the regular guest book people, Lil, BEG, Peter Viney, Pat Brennan, JTull fan, Butch and the rest of you. I am sorry for my part in closing this book down and leaving you guys without your outlets, I lost me temper and I hope I can learn and grow from this experience.

Serge, your turn Pete Tomannoff, Lee, New Hampshire, United States of America

Entered at Sun Jun 1 02:37:25 CEST 2003 from cache-df07.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.107)

Calvin

I swore I'd never enter feud talk or politics tak again, and yet I keep breaking my own oath. A week after we were shut down for acting like children were back to argueing about why it got shut down-there are times we act like a bunch of lemmings. No wonder Jan gets frustrated.

Fantastic post Ray, fantastic post.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 02:33:36 CEST 2003 from wc12.mtnk.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.84.207)

Dr. Donabie

I'm listening a lot to The Beach Boys this week......especially the new DVD from their 1980 Concert in England. Let's get back to the music. Even I should not get involved in this crap. Who cares????? The music is what brought us here right? Give me Carl Wilson any day. Talk about a family of musicians who fought a lot; but stuck it out till they started passing away. Even now they continue in the Love/Johnson camp v.s. the Jardine camp. Such is life. "Round Round Get Around......I Get Around."

Entered at Sun Jun 1 02:31:37 CEST 2003 from ool-18b9277e.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.39.126)

Bayou Sam

John Cass = sure, I'll e-mail you.

It's amusing to see the dead horse is alive and well = didn't Robbie "buy out" the other guys? That would be a legal transaction right? Unless he put the other guys in a headlock and forced them to sell. And the other question that never seems to have an answer - why did it take so many years for Levon to get pissed at Robbie?

I think that the posts that may have really been the reason for the last GB shut down may have been wiped out. I had just posted some thoughts on certain peoples attitudes when the thing got shut down. When I went to the GB the next day my post was gone. I was concerned that I was part of the reason Jan took action. I even e-mailed Jan to apologise if that was the case.....I'm getting better though. I was able to turn the thoughts I just typed around from what they were when they were in my head ten minutes ago. I try, not always successfully, to ignore the huge egos and condascending attitudes of a couple of folks....I just think it's a shame that we're spoiling for another shut down - and so soon after the last.

Also, if "successfully", and "condascending" are spelled (or spelt) wrong above, I hope the people who judge someone by such things will go for a walk rather than call me a moron or something. And if they're spelled right, someone tell me.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 02:19:30 CEST 2003 from mcha-ai005.taconic.net (205.231.28.5)

Lil

Entered at Sun Jun 1 02:03:40 CEST 2003 from 130.43.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.43.130)

Ray Pence

you can call him Robbie/or you can call him Robertson...

Whatever. Since I was the one who first put in some congratulations for Robbie's honor, and things have gone downhill since then a bit, I wanted to explain my view. As far as the feud goes, I don't really have much of a view, certainly not the kind that comes from personal interaction/friendship with Band members, as some folks in the GB do...I respect what they have to say and would never want to offend ce Subject: Robbie or Robertson, your call

you can call him Robbie/or you can call him Robertson...

Whatever. Since I was the one who first put in some congratulations for Robbie's honor, and things have gone downhill since then a bit, I wanted to explain my view. As far as the feud goes, I don't really have much of a view, certainly not the kind that comes from personal interaction/friendship with Band members, as some folks in the GB do...I respect what they have to say and would never want to offend people who "know better" than I do, but at the same time I think those of us who've never been fortunate enough to meet our heroes have a valid viewpoint also.

I suppose if I'd witnessed RR being a jerk to someone and then I read praise of him in the GB, I might be offended, but then again maybe not...as for the accusations and condemnations, I don't know enough to believe them or not, and I'm sorry, as much as I love Levon Helm, I don't like or take his book 100% seriously...he's made his case, and he has plenty of supporters just as Robbie does. And it's always been clear that RR knows how to spin some tall tales and polish up that image in interviews.

I tend to listen to Garth Hudson and Ronnie Hawkins, people like that. And they're on record as seeing this dispute in pretty complicated ways---not calling RR a villain, swindler, ***hole, etc.

Ultimately though it's not my responsibility or interest to judge Robbie Robertson's character. I don't really care. I do respect the contributions he's made and nothing changes that.

An open question to everybody--what has the news of this feud and the ongoing nature of it done to benefit anyone? Doesn't it just feel wrong to have the Band dragged down to the level of National Enquirer reporting? What's the point?

I think the Band, everyone in it, had their chances to work out their conflicts, and that was their job, not ours, and I'm still glad Robbie gets his honorary degree.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 01:46:42 CEST 2003 from (206.186.13.188)

...and again

Why do you protest so much?? Also, your memory sucks. End of story.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 01:42:44 CEST 2003 from (206.186.13.188)

Me again

Sorry, I neglected to add Bill Johnson to the previous bunch of AOL and ATTBI users.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 01:34:50 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

My memory shows Serge calling Pete T (along with a list of other non-involved folks) a donkey first. This was based on his flawed IP# theory. That post too may have been removed, but I'm not sure. Go look in the archives if you are that interested. Many posts were censored towards the end of that squabble including the one where Serge manically went off on everybody under the sun including members of The Band itself. Is it only OK for the mighty Serge to call names, or is one entering a different realm when they switch to the initial name caller's family? How does that saying go? People who live in glass houses ought not throw stones.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 01:16:19 CEST 2003 from wc12.mtnk.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.84.207)

John D

I didn't follow all the Serge-Pete T stuff; but it is my understanding that Pete insulted Serge's heritage and in fact called his mother a donkey??? Think there might be more blame to share here than on Serge. Recently Serge has been telling is about Django etc. which I find quite constructive.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 01:12:42 CEST 2003 from wc12.mtnk.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.84.207)

John D

It is my personal understanding that Levon did NOT receive any monies from TLW; including this last release. One question I have never heard asked is if indeed The Band members each received money for the PERFORMANCE of TLW...not talking about the subsequent recordings.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 01:09:40 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Serge, I guess you missed Deeb's response from before you closed the board last time about how all AOL users have the same IP#. Or did you think no one saw the post before you had it removed from the record? Same goes for attbi customers like myself. He called you an idiot for spouting your nonsense last time if you'll remember. Nice try though.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 01:08:25 CEST 2003 from wc12.mtnk.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.84.207)

John D

Wow! Thanks Dave...... I didn't realize there was a difference between one or two terms re: being able to run again. I thought it was a yes or no answer. I learned something today. Thanks again.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 01:01:10 CEST 2003 from 12-236-193-14.client.attbi.com (12.236.193.14)

Dale

Subject: The Split

Does anyone know exactly how the proceeds were split for The Last Waltz and associated ventures? Seems I heard Robbie took the money and ran. Doctorate of Law indeed. And for those that are tired of hearing about it, please remember that many of us weren't there for those discussions, and it is a very important part of the history of The Band. Isn't this a Band discussion board? Maybe you guys who are tired of it should start another site where only certain topics were allowed to be discussed. It's not so much about the money alone, but about how a man can stab his brothers in the back and walk away with people calling him a hero, not to mention tattooing the creep onto their bodies. I would think a knife dripping blood should be added right next to the word "Robbie". Somebody straighten me out if I'm wrong, please.

http://theband.hiof.no/band_pictures/rrt_brooks.html

Entered at Sun Jun 1 00:43:51 CEST 2003 from (206.186.13.188)

Serge

These three guys must be sharing the same two comps. 205.188.208.107 and 64.12.96.71. Not very clever.

Entered at Sun Jun 1 00:29:55 CEST 2003 from ppp410.ac1.56k.execulink.com (209.239.6.94)

Paul g

Subject: Steve Coles

Steve check out OLGA's Guitar Chords page. I think there is a Tab there that should work for you. shineonpaulg