The Band Guestbook, September 2001

Posted on Sun Sep 30 23:26:51 CEST 2001 from (205.188.199.184)

Bayou Sam

Charlie Young = I too thought that Neil Youngs rendering of "Imagine" on the tribite show was fantastic. I wouldn't have imagined that he could pull off that tune so well - but he did.

Bashful Bill = I thought you spoke words of wisdom in your post from right after the GB's return. You put it perfect when you asked why we would even acknowledge a person who the webmaster has asked to leave. I just wanted to say that.

I drove over the Whitestone Bridge again the other day. The NYC skyline just ain't right. Somehow, seeing the Empire State Building there makes me feel OK though.

Posted on Sun Sep 30 20:38:40 CEST 2001 from (208.23.178.150)

Mike

Ahoy, nice to see the guestbook back up and running. Nice to be back, so to speak. Last night, I bought the deluxe edition of "The Who: Live At Leeds". It's about time that the "Tommy" section was made available! Another great live album made even better. Right up there with "Rock Of Ages", in my opinion. Just a bit of rambling. jan, thanks for bringing the GB back. Peace.

Mike

Posted on Sun Sep 30 20:13:53 CEST 2001 from (172.143.29.120)

O'Toole

I just bought Time Has Come Today by the Chamber's Brothers a few weeks ago, after curiousity got the better of me (gospel and psychedelia together?). I've been enjoying it ever since. In the liner notes the author says that the Band stole the vocal line from "All Strung Out" (I believe it's that song- I don't have the album on me now) and used it in one of their own songs. I know most all their pre-Last Waltz stuff by heart- but can't for the life of me figure out which one they use that vocal line in. Its probably terribly obvious-but it escapes me. Anyone know?

Posted on Sun Sep 30 19:52:58 CEST 2001 from (63.10.13.161)

Hi

As follow up to my previous post: I found my tape of the Danko King Biscuit....he introduces his band members including brother, Terry. It was December 1977...no Sip the Wine but 5 other tunes from that LP included...sorry if this trivia bothers anyone.

Also sorry if I gave the impression the Barnburners gig was $75. a ticket...It was a Film Festival which cost $500. for the whole thing or attend the closing night show which was the BB's for $75.

Posted on Sun Sep 30 19:15:41 CEST 2001 from (63.17.109.253)

Hi

I also recall seeing the Soundstage with Rick Danko and his band which included his brother on PBS. He did several tunes from his Arista album.....I think the other half of the show was Graham Parker and the Rumour.....There was a King Biscuit radio show too....

I'll ask again....Was there a change in the Barnburners' personnel?

Posted on Sun Sep 30 16:24:52 CEST 2001 from (63.46.56.228)

Crabgrass

Drinking while driving or moderating can be dangerous!!

Posted on Sun Sep 30 15:34:33 CEST 2001 from (24.4.252.8)

Chris D.

I don't post much anymore, but never stopped reading and really missed all you regulars. Thrilled to the core about heading down to Helena this week for the King Biscuit Blues Festival! Every Barnburners show I see is life at it's finest, but seeing Levon on his old turf is gonna be the best! Anyone planning to attend, especially Guestbookers from the Philly/Jersey area please drop me an e-mail. We'll be in the Memphis area from Thursday to Monday. I'm definitely looking forward to saying hello to Butch and Levon, Pat and Chris. I was informed there is some new blood in the Barnburner family and there really ripping it up. I cannot wait. Last but not least, thank you Jan for this sight that means so much to so many great people.

Posted on Sun Sep 30 15:19:24 CEST 2001 from (203.164.2.197)

Leland Sanchez

Enjoyed your site.

My 16 year old daughter was watching the movie Girl Interrupted a few days ago and I heard a snippet of The Weight being played in the film. I wasn't sure whether the filmmaker had the date of the song right, so thats why I looked up your web site.

Also enjoyed reading the words to the song, as I'd never been quite able to catch them all.

best wishes

Leland Sanchez

Posted on Sun Sep 30 14:24:07 CEST 2001 from (24.4.255.224)

Mugs

Add my voice to the chorus of thanks to Jan for maintaining and improving this gb. The mentions of Terry Danko bring forth a sliver of memory of an edition of Soundstage featuring Rick, perhaps with his brother playing behind him. Soundstage was an Austin City Limits-type program produced by WTTW Ch. 11, the Chicago PBS affiliate. This was maybe twenty years ago, during years when I was often loaded, so my memory perhaps does not serve me well. But I seem to recall my wife and I being, uh, moved by an extremely soulful version of "Sip the Wine" that took its time building to a climax. I've checked this site's Biography, Videography, and Members sections but have found no mention of this TV program. Does anyone else recall it? Is it available?

Posted on Sun Sep 30 13:18:39 CEST 2001 from (64.12.102.34)

Joe

Bashful Bill.......At Amazon.Com...."Struck A Vein" seems to be available. The cost is approximately $17.50 which includes the shipping.

Posted on Sun Sep 30 09:33:39 CEST 2001 from (24.25.179.110)

MattK

When Saint Paul referred to "moderation in all things," I doubt he considered the need for an amendment dealing with the digital. I think if this works, Jan should rent himself out. I could use an "idiot filter" in my personal life -- mostly to check on what leaves my own mouth.

Good to have the GB back in action.

Posted on Sun Sep 30 08:12:40 CEST 2001 from (198.164.200.214)

Java

Hi gang! I'm back on my medication and I have my head on straight now. That Paxil works wonders. No more rude or rhetorical posts. I promise.

Posted on Sun Sep 30 03:32:27 CEST 2001 from (63.42.170.72)

King Whistle

Thank God the GB is back. As I have said before, this is one of the most special places that I have found on-line. As sappy as it sounds, it is a community that is important to me.

And our first son was born yesterday and comes home tomorrow morning. Christmas must be tonight.

Posted on Sun Sep 30 01:27:07 CEST 2001 from (136.152.194.68)

Dave Hopkins

Ahhhh....this really made my day.

I think I missed the GB the most after the concert special on TV last Friday with Springsteen, Young, Simon, Nelson, Petty etc. Usually, of course, I would have had the pleasure of reading the reactions of other music fans whose opinions I deeply respect following such a significant musical event...but because of certain individuals, of course, we were all deprived of this forum last week. But I'm thankful to see the GB back in business, and I hope that the new moderated format doesn't cause an undue amount of extra work for Jan.

Peter V: Harold Danko is a jazz pianist who's been around since the 1970s, I would say, who's probably known best for his work as a sideman with Lee Konitz and Chet Baker (though he's done a few albums under his own name as well). I've never heard of any ties of kinship with our Rick, though I guess I wouldn't be shocked, considering how musicality can run in the family.

I dearly hope that we get a report from the upcoming Garth concert in Halifax -- it sounds like it'll be terrific.

Glad to see everyone back! Lil -- thanks so much for your note; it kept hope alive during those dark GB-less days.

Posted on Sun Sep 30 00:19:07 CEST 2001 from (63.46.56.95)

Crabgrass

A Robbie - Dylan feud?? Come to think of it Robbie didn't cover any Dylan tunes on his last few albums and Bob didn't cover any Robertson tunes on his.

Hmmm...

Posted on Sun Sep 30 00:18:04 CEST 2001 from (156.40.62.53)

Jonathan Katz

Anybody heard of this:

Goddess (Women's Voices Of The World).

Full length CD from Illuminations Records, 2001. CD contains 12 tracks and features Vas, Kate Pierce, Virginia Rodriquez, Yulara, Vox, Robbie Robertson w/Rita Coolige, Mercedes Sosa, Mediaeval Baebes, Axiom Of Choice, Stellamara & Cesaria Evora.

Posted on Sat Sep 29 23:47:50 CEST 2001 from (63.15.224.198)

BR

A couple of weeks ago I was doing a volksmarch (10 km walk)in Chesapeake Beach, Va. As I was walking down the boardwalk the sun was shinning and the sky was a brilliant blue. To my surprise,what did I hear coming through the speakers at the visitors center? MOONDOG MATINEE I had to smile.

I needed that as I was walking with some friends whose political philosophy diverges 180 degrees from mine and I was taking a beating. However we are still friends but have reverted to our old habits of discussing very little politics. Bonnie

Posted on Sat Sep 29 22:26:46 CEST 2001 from (166.90.70.189)

Pat Brennan

In an interview in Mix Magazine, Corky Laing states that the song Mississippi Queen by Mountain grew out of an encounter with a scantily clad southern belle and an attempt on Laing's part to replicate Levon's drumming on Cripple Creek. Oddly enough, once you listen to both songs together (which most of humanity probably hasn't done), the drumming sounds extremely alike.

Posted on Sat Sep 29 21:59:31 CEST 2001 from (207.75.180.149)

jamie

JTF:

On Terry Danko:

He's done a lot of stuff. He was part of a couple of bands that were popular in Canada; I remember them from my early teens. (The CRTC(Canadian Radio and Television Commission)rules requiring 30% Canadian content helped create many bands that had a high profile in Canada but were completely unknown in the States.) One was called Bearfoot and another was called Atkinson, Danko and Ford. (The Atkinson was Jim Atkinson who played much of the lead guitar on the Rick Danko Album)

If I remember right, there were a few albums in the early 70's - one called "Atkinson, Danko And Ford (With Brockie and Hilton)", another called "Bearfoot" and one called "Friends" (as Bearfoot). They weren't bad -- Terry clearly has his brother's flair for unusual harmonies.

At least at the time of the Ronnie Hawkins birthday concert, Terry Danko was back playing bass with the Hawks. (I saw him on TV when Hawkins and the Hawks appeared on Conan.)

Posted on Sat Sep 29 17:56:13 CEST 2001 from (24.169.189.83)

Bashful Bill

Does anyone know where I might find a copy of The Cate Bros Struck A Vein album? I have played Radioland to death, and they have a live album available through their website. I've searched high&low for this one to no avail. Also, how were those Gurus last night?

Posted on Sat Sep 29 17:51:05 CEST 2001 from (64.230.33.195)

brown eyed girl

"You know, if people can't have what they want, that's when they really want it...........there's something to be said about mystery. That's why Bob was a good influence," says Rick Danko.

In 1993 Dylan played with The Band members without Robbie........Sounes states that Dylan played with the remaining three Band members for old times' sake at the Absolutely Unofficial Blue Jeans Bash. They performed at a party in honour of former President Bill Clinton...............at the National Building Museum.............

CUPID........In case you didn't know yet........The Waterboys have a new recording with out takes from FISHERMAN BLUES.......I have really missed Mike Scott's voice.......but once Karl Wallinger left..........

GARTH/MAUD/ANDERSEN in Woodstock............another great show coming up! Eric will also be in Toronto again........on October 17.....but without Garth and Maud........how come?????...........I really enjoyed Eric's show at The Rivoli last year!!........If I can't make the show and Eric reads from Irving Layton's poetry again.......John Donabie please call out "Cockroach".......my favourite of Layton's work.........

Eric and Louuuuuuu connection........Louuuu sings back up on YOU CAN'T RELIVE THE PAST......and another Garth and Louuuuuu connection........Garth has played with Louuuuuuu's bassist......the lovable Fernando Saunders on Marianne Faithfull's tour BLAZING AWAY.

Posted on Sat Sep 29 17:31:37 CEST 2001 from (63.17.109.196)

Hi

Hi, Thanks Jan.

The Barnburners gig Butch refers to was $75. a pop. Uma and that crowd can afford it but not I.

Was the new bass player a permanent replacement or just a fill in? Also is Amy still with them? Anyone?

Posted on Sat Sep 29 17:00:40 CEST 2001 from (158.36.51.123)

jh

another test...goes well with the first cold Saturday afternoon beer :-)

Posted on Sat Sep 29 16:27:31 CEST 2001 from (199.224.105.231)

Diamond Lil

I just came back from a drive here..a cool, crisp fall NY morning (my daughter says it smells like Halloween in the air :-).. and heard Rick's "Times Like These" on the car radio. Very rarely has that ever happened. It kind of made me appreciate the day if you know what I mean. It's funny, but when you have something on cd and play it often.. you sometimes take it for granted. And then suddenly.. it "surprises" you over the car radio.. and you find yourself saying "oh wow!" as you crank it up. Does that ever happen to anyone else?

Butch: Thanks for that great post about Garth and Levon taking the stage together. There's a real love and respect between them as you know, and it's nice to hear about time they spend together. I only wish I could've been there to hear it. I guess these day I'm suffering from "mom-mentum".. that kid-induced thing that pushes you forward and keeps you running in several different directions even when you're out of fuel. I hope to get all of me in the same place at the same time in time for Garth/Maud/Eric Andersen in Woodstock though. Really looking forward to that.

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Sat Sep 29 16:08:07 CEST 2001 from (64.12.104.24)

Me Again (aka Jtull fan)

Sorry to keep posting; I'm just so happy to have our GB back. Robbie and Dylan question: Are these guys on bad terms? Can anyone think of official contact between the two since the Last Waltz? Levon's book references Dylan being difficult in terms of his image and songs being used in the Last Waltz. Is it possible that Dylan and Robbie are so similar business-wise that they do not get along? We know Rick sometimes appeared with Bob, as recently as '97 on stage performing this Wheel's on Fire, Rick and Levon had Dylan join them onstage in the '80's. The reformed Band recorded Dylan songs on Jericho and High on the Hog as well as played at Dylan's 30th Aniversary concert. Levon speaks kindly of Bob in his book. Yet, there is no Robbie playing any studio bits on any post-Last Waltz Dylan albums. Was Robbie present when Dylan was inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame? You would think Robbie would have played at Dylan's 30th anniversary concert. I don't think he would have stayed away because the reformed Band was there, although I can see Levon staying away if Robbie was there. Even the reclusive George Harrison made a public appearance. I've never heard any discussion regarding this. Maybe it will make a good thread.

Posted on Sat Sep 29 15:52:59 CEST 2001 from (64.12.104.24)

Stupid (AKA JTULL FAN)

Just found the Barnburners radio show on the audio archives. Ignore that part of my last post.

Posted on Sat Sep 29 15:48:44 CEST 2001 from (64.12.104.24)

JTULL FAN

I feel like the only person out here who has been unable to see the Barnburners. I can't even find a muddy bootleg! Any suggestions? I just wish they would put out a live album on Breeze Hill or Margolis' label. It seems like this would be superior than any studio album anyhow as Levon is so 'live' oriented. On another thread, on the former 'GB' somebody mentioned a desire to see the surviving Band members behind Dylan again. I've often thought of this but have mixed feelings. Even if you could get RR, Levon and Garth on the same stage, they would probably be 'disconnected' from each other without Richard and Rick.The Band to me was always more than the sum of the parts, and the surviving three to me would be less than the sum of the parts. The bass ties the drums to the guitar, Richard's piano can be either melody or percussion, tieing Garth to Levon. Levon and Rick's vocals tied Garth's melodies to their bass and drums. The surviving guys lack vocals, so Garth would be isolated, Levon would be isolated, and so would Robbie. There would be no cohesion. I would have loved to have seen a combo of Rick, Levon, and Garth behind Dylan, or Robbie, Rick , and Garth, or Richard, Garth, and Rick, etc. etc. As it stands, I would LOVE to see just Robbie, or the Barnburners, or Garth with Dylan, sitting in with his current band. I just don't think the surviving three would pull it off, even if they were on good terms. Any thoughts, guys?

Posted on Sat Sep 29 15:40:19 CEST 2001 from (4.43.212.203)

Ron Stanford

This is a very useful and informative site. Our band's site has a feature called "Album Pick of the Week," and so far we've linked to your site twice to give background for the albums we've selected--Bobby Charles (Bobby Charles) and The Band (Rock of Ages). Our site is widely viewed, so you're continuing to have an international impact. Thanks. Townhall

Posted on Sat Sep 29 13:51:17 CEST 2001 from (24.2.9.42)

Craig

Jan- THANKS!

Dave The phone Guy- I love your taste! The Cates are so smooth and so soulful and Curtis Salgado has been one of my favourite soul/r&b singers for years. Great choices.

Posted on Sat Sep 29 08:01:46 CEST 2001 from (209.214.116.183)

BWNWITennessee

Just checking to see how long it takes for a post to appear. Setting my stopwatch... right... now!

Posted on Sat Sep 29 07:47:34 CEST 2001 from (64.230.42.62)

brown eyed girl

I think most of us were going through guestbook withdrawl......THANK YOU KINDLY JAN for allowing us to continue discussing anything Band related or otherwise.........;-D

KALERVO AND ILKKA: I think my favourite songs so far are "Rva Ruusun" by ANSSI KELA.........I'm very partial to slide ya know........and "Nummela" is great as well........

I was sooooooo happy to see that Garth and Maud will be on the same bill as Louuuuuuuuuu.......on November 7 in NYC.........WOW.......Louuuuuu, Garth and Maud together...........and all of you thought that Louuuuuuu did not have any Band connections!.......:-DD........They will be performing for Hal Willner's Jerome "Doc" Pomus Project.......Pomus had written many "hits" for Dion and the Belmonts, Elvis Presley, Drifters......among others in the 1950's and 1960's.............Louuuuuuu's MAGIC AND LOSS recording was written for Doc and another friend......It is rumoured that the other friend was Rita (Rachel)..........

In support of the New York City Emergency Relief Fund the staff at my school are donating all of our donations from our Friday dress down days...........hmmmmmmmm.......I guess I should contribute more money since I'm dressed down most days.........:-D

Posted on Sat Sep 29 06:21:19 CEST 2001 from (63.42.157.222)

Crabgrass

I made a second trip downtown today near the WTC disaster site and must say it is quite a devastating experience just to look up at the air space which the Twin Towers occupied and not see them anymore (I worked in Tower 2 on the 100th Floor a while back for a firm that went out of business.) but the realization that some 6,000 people are also gone their remains under the twisted rubble is much more devastating. With all the prayers said you would think at least one victim would have been pulled out alive... but not so. Was the God everyone was praying to the "wrong" God or were they just not praying fervently enough or was God busy doing something else? I hope the theologians can come up with an good answer.

Thanks to the 67 GBers who participated in my religious quiz - 65 answered correctly (D. Humanism) which means only two have an I.Q. below 20 - identities will not be revealed - so don't you two guys worry.

Paul McCartney is organizing an October 20th music event at Madison Square Garden to benefit the Twin Towers Fund. The Who, James Taylor, and Macy Gray will appear among others.

Posted on Sat Sep 29 02:24:03 CEST 2001 from (208.137.244.95)

KZR

Wish I could see the Guru's in Pattenburg tonight. Unfortunately, I can't drive in Jersey right now. Hope whoever goes there enjoys it. Take pictures if you can.

Posted on Sat Sep 29 02:09:44 CEST 2001 from (152.163.194.212)

Bayou Sam

Hey Folks! - I've been away for the last week or so. Anything exciting happen in the Guestbook :-)

Posted on Sat Sep 29 01:43:58 CEST 2001 from (205.188.197.42)

Joe

Thanks Jan.....Good to see GB open!!

Posted on Sat Sep 29 00:06:46 CEST 2001 from (152.163.197.194)

butch

while this page was on hiatus,,,,,, history, of sorts , was made !!!!!!!

Garth joined Levon & The Barn Burners @ Bearsville Theatre for the closing show of the 2001 woodstock film festival !!!

Garth , on his keyboards, really enjoyed playing the blues, all blues & nothing but the blues,, Garth - style ,,, The Barn Burners love playing with Garth & it showed,, one helluva set,,,, chris was his usual scorching self & pat played that guitar like it was his last show ever,,

SMOKIN !!!!

Levon had a blast , leading the charge from behind his drums,,,, playing with his old friend really fired him up & The Barn Burners had a new bass player, Sly, & he was a perfect match for the boss,,,,

all the film hipsters were dancin to the blues & seemed to even know who the musicians were,,,,heheheheh,, a fine grand night,,,, bd

Posted on Fri Sep 28 23:50:09 CEST 2001 from (195.82.121.121)

Peter Viney

WELCOME BACK, AND THANK YOU JAN.

While we’ve been away, Jan has kept up a steady flow of information in ‘What’s New’ and there’s been a lot of new Robbie information including cover versions. Do we have a new and very well-informed informant? If so, welcome! ‘B.B. King: Here & There: The Uncollected B.B. King’ compilation lists about 50 artists without saying who plays on what. Robbie Robertson is credited as ‘producer, piano’ which I’d assume to be for ‘Tain’t Nobody’s Bizness If I do. On the King of Comedy OST, the credits are B.B. King - vocal & guitar. Produced by Robbie Robertson. Presumably he could be on something else too, but this King of Comedy track is the most likely. And so therefore on piano. First time on CD, I think.

Most surprising was the 1995 Jazz Chromatic Ensemble session in Italy. The date would tie up with his appearance at the Agrigento Festival. Never heard even a rumour of that session before. It makes you wonder just how many sessions by Band members we haven’t picked up. Look at the huge resource here. Even so, I’d bet there are a good few more we don’t know.

Saw a jazz album from Denmark by “The Harold Danko Band’ today. I vaguely recall discussing this years ago, any information?

Posted on Fri Sep 28 22:50:27 CEST 2001 from (130.219.229.173)

BK

My soul can breath again! As only an ocassional poster but very consistant reader, I was getting pretty lonesome for my "freinds" in the GB.

Here's an attempt at a thread (that I'm sure has been discussed in the past) - but since we're sorta starting over in the GB... What was it that turned you on to the Band in the first place? How did you discover them?

In my case, I was 15 years old and had just gotten into Dylan when BTF came out. A freind of mine had just bought it, and thought it was great. I was kinda familiar with TNTDODD, and The Weight and such, but didn't know much more. My buddy played it for me... my jaw hit the floor... and I haven't been right in the head since. I said something like "yeah, Dylan's great, but this band is what it's all about! they're the kings of the universe!". Been a hard core fan ever since.

Only regret... I never was the original lineup live. I've seen them all (except RR), in various incarnations a number of times, but I would have loved to have seen the original 5 together.

So, there it is. Thanks for listening to my ramble. Hope ya don't mind. - Bill

Posted on Fri Sep 28 22:27:02 CEST 2001 from (12.91.0.33)

Elizabeth Stephen

It's good to see the Guestbook open again. I just wanted to say "thanks" to the Band-fan community for listening to our song for Rick, and an extra-special thanks to Jan for posting it. It's such an honor - we've been fans for a long time and have been visiting this site as well for a few years, and suddenly we are part of it. Thank you thank you thank you thank you all!!!

Posted on Fri Sep 28 22:26:47 CEST 2001 from (205.188.198.24)

butch

thanks jan,,, just in time for the weekend,,, where else do ya go to see your friends on a friday night,,,??? you were missed,,,, butch

Posted on Fri Sep 28 22:12:40 CEST 2001 from (64.64.94.194)

Charlie Young

As Diamond Lil and Joni Mitchell might say: "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone."

It's great to see the GB back up thanks to Jan's "idiot filters." National Airport in Washington, DC is still closed, though. I think that their "idiot filters" are taking a little longer to install...

Back to the music: did anyone else think that Neil Young's performance of Lennon's "Imagine" on the TRIBUTE TO HEROES benefit concert last week was the single most magnificent vocal performance of his 35 year musical career?

Posted on Fri Sep 28 22:14:05 CEST 2001 from (209.166.233.21)

Jon Lyness

A real pleasure to "see" everyone again. Thanks once again, Jan. :)

Posted on Fri Sep 28 21:04:39 CEST 2001 from (205.188.200.24)

Brien Sz

Ahhhh the comfy cozy comforts of home once again..,

Posted on Fri Sep 28 20:51:36 CEST 2001 from (199.224.105.190)

Diamond Lil

Richard: Trust me.. _noone_ was sicker of looking at my post than I was! :-)

I want to wish the mighty road warriors (and everyone else) a great time at the Guru's show tonight. I was planning to go.. but my son is performing tonight up in Schenectady in a benefit for families of the WTC victims. So for tonight, my heart is there.

Have a good night everyone.

Posted on Fri Sep 28 20:43:25 CEST 2001 from (198.242.213.18)

Mr. K. Horse

HOLY MOLY! Have we been punished.

Posted on Fri Sep 28 19:56:58 CEST 2001 from (205.188.192.51)

Donna

There will be a meeting of The Road Warrior's tonight, to see Jim Weider and The Gurus. The show will be at The Pattenburg House, NJ. It is going be a great show, and I hope to see some of the guestbook regulars there!

It was such a nice surprise to see the guestbook opened for buisiness again. Thank you Jan, for your kindness, and all your hard work!

Wishing everyone a wonderful weekend!

Posted on Fri Sep 28 19:34:25 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Thank you Jan, once again, for your efforts, above & beyond the call, to maintain this guestbook forum. All of us, with a few exceptions, who visit here from literally all parts of the world, seem to be united by a love of music. This special music, not just that of The Band & its individual members, but like their music, a music rich in its diversity of influences and forms of expression.

As one who grew up with the music of The Band, I can remember that when I heard their first album, "Music From Big Pink", back in 1968, my country was deeply embroiled in a war. I can vividly recall how that wonderful music offered, not so much an escape, but a feeling of solace amidst the turmoil of the times. Those songs, sung by three (and in one instance, four) different & distinctive voices, were so rich in their narratives of everyday life. The music evoked, for me, not only a sense of free spiritedness, but subtly reinforced feelings of family & community ties, at a time when many were questioning the existence of these qualities of life. These qualities are not just akin to any one nation, but are common to all humanity.

The postings from all over the world in this guestbook are evidence, hopefully, of this unity of spirit. In times like these, let us remember to maintain a level of understanding & civility that's unfortunately lacking elsewhere.

Posted on Fri Sep 28 19:32:08 CEST 2001 from (62.30.0.2)

terry mullen

sighs tomorrow is my birthday i will be 47 where have the years gone??????? born1954 was too young for the dylan of 1964/65 that was for my older peers into jimi and cream until i heard the rustic spinetingling band so simple/complicated so joyous and sad top band ever where would american music be without them god bless them if you see this e mail me with your thoughts sigh oh to be home again down in old virginny aint in my rockin chait yet but feelin old!!!!!!

Posted on Fri Sep 28 19:20:53 CEST 2001 from (64.12.101.172)

Amanda

Hello Everyone! I am so happy that the GB is back on track! Thanks Jan.

Posted on Fri Sep 28 18:52:51 CEST 2001 from (24.159.101.52)

DP

Let me second the notion that like all great things in this world, we take them for granted and eventually abuse or over use these gifts. Freedom, natural resources and The GB, to mention a few. Jan, thnks for the link on Hiatt, those words about Levon, well, they are so Hiatt.

Posted on Fri Sep 28 18:25:07 CEST 2001 from (24.169.189.83)

Bashful Bill

Jan-thanks for finding a way for your GB to survive. Since things will be moderated now, the following points may be moot, but I'll say it anyway.Some of the problems leading up to the latest shutdown were avoidable, in my opinion. It takes some will power, but the "idiots", as Jan has come to dub them, have to be ignored.Don't argue with them, don't even acknowledge them once they start behaving like idiots.This includes in the chatroom. Jan very pointedly asked one person to stay away a few days before he shut things down. Within a few posts, regulars who should know better were baiting that person and even asking his/her/its opinions on music. Why even talk to someone that Jan, the webmaster, has asked to stat away from his GB? Then there were the 2 idiots who had to get into an insult match, challenging each other to contests, etc, for post after post. I think most of the regulars here are intelligent enough to figure out when a public discussion has crossed over to a point where it should be taken over to email. I know I had no interest in those people publicly questioning each others penis size(come on already!!) and professions and challenging each other to trivia contests. As I said, with this place having to be monitored, unfortunately, then this kind of stuff will be much less likely to occur. I'm not even certain if this post will make the cut, though I don't think Jan has any intention of censoring opinions or avoiding any controversial opinions. I think he just wants adults to act like adults when they are his guests. Anyone going to the Guru's show tonite, enjoy. And watch out for G-Man's crew, they are a wild bunch and will corupt you if they can. Thanks again, Jan, for finding a way to open up your GB.

Posted on Fri Sep 28 18:18:14 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

Great to have the guestbook open again. Thank you Jan! It has never been closed this long before and in that is a lesson for all of us. Great to be back!

Posted on Fri Sep 28 17:36:31 CEST 2001 from (209.221.212.140)

Dave the Phone Guy

As any phone man will tell you, "It's good to be back on the air".

I got to see the Cate Bros. Band last weekend up at Tahoe and tomorrow will see Curtis Salgado (the original Blues Brother) in Reno.

Be a patriot,go out and spend some money. Spend those hard earned dollars on LIVE MUSIC of course.

Thanks to Mr. Hoiberg. Again.

Posted on Fri Sep 28 16:37:30 CEST 2001 from (137.187.146.245)

Jonathan Katz

Terry Danko had one album released that I saw listed on e-Bay once [the bidding went way too high for me]. I've seen a scan of the cover but never really seen it. Jan????

Temperature's rising

Fever is high

Can't see no Guestbook

Can't see no sky

My eyelids are heavy

I haven't been fed

Surfin’ the network

Gotta feed my head

No Guestbook, has got me on the run

Fingers are aching

Worn to the bone

Poundin' the keyboard

Can’t leave it alone

My eyes are wide open

Can't get to sleep

Till I find replacement

For the thing that I need

No Guestbook, has got me on the run

Its been 3 days now

Rolling in pain

Praying to someone

Let me post again

Oh I'll be a good boy

No one to flame

I promise you anything

Let me post again

Posted on Fri Sep 28 16:22:57 CEST 2001 from (209.114.161.13)

Mary (bear)

Ahhhhh, so glad the gb is back. I do hope that this does not happen again , the nastiness, and the closing of the gb. I hope from now on, everyone can respect everyone elses opinion, and agree to disagree. You can disagree respectfully, and without name calling and insulting one another. Thanks Jan.....and looking forward to reading the posts band related or not. Everyone have a good day.

Posted on Fri Sep 28 16:17:48 CEST 2001 from (63.25.9.115)

rollie

GREAT! Best to all in these weirder than weird times......

Posted on Fri Sep 28 15:41:30 CEST 2001 from (216.209.112.78)

Richard

Hi Folks, It's very nice to see the GB back in business! I think I had your post memorized Lil : ). Thanks for all your hard work and patience Jan.

RONNIE HAWKINS: I've been very anxious to tell you all that I had my first experience of seeing Ronnie Hawkins play live on Sunday. I was thrilled. The event was a fund-raiser for a local hall/club in Welland that had a lovely big outdoor stage. Beautiful warm fall day for it. I realize I am probably the last one among you all to see a Ronnie Hawkins show, but I was impressed. The first of 2 sets started with CB's "Let It Rock" then went right into "Down in the Alley" (by that time I was hooked) and finished up a few hours later with a "Bo Diddley/Who Do You Love" medley. A good time was had by all, not the least of whom Ronnie, who not only kept up a stream of off colour comments but managed to down every beer brought to the stage. How old is this guy?

Perhaps taking a page out of Levon’s book, the band included Ronnie's daughter (singing) and son (lead guitar). I think he's set to play all over Ontario right now, so go see him while you can!

Posted on Fri Sep 28 15:08:04 CEST 2001 from (64.12.107.27)

Dave ~ (the drummer)

JTullFan: Terry Danko is one of two drummers performing on brother Rick's first solo release from 1977. If you have the CD; he is pictured in the middle, between Rick & Rob Fraboni. In addition to being a drummer, Terry also plays guitar & bass.

Levon's nephew, Terry Cagle is the drummer for the Jungle Bush Beaters. He was on tour with The PLW Band in the late 70's and early 80's.

With the fertile musical minds the Band members posess, I'd be willing to bet that there are some other musicians in the family tree. Does anyone else know of them ????

Posted on Fri Sep 28 14:08:02 CEST 2001 from (63.66.135.217)

JTull Fan

The fast is over! Thank-you Jan. Let me start off with a music thread. Rick Danko's brother Terry has a credit on Times Like These. I understand he may have also worked/works with Ronnie Hawkins. Is anybody familiar with his work and credits? Does he do vocals as well? Are there any other notable Band family members musically active besides Amy Helm?

Posted on Fri Sep 28 13:25:43 CEST 2001 from (199.224.105.227)

Diamond Lil

Aah.. thanks Jan. Nice to see the gb back. Kind of like seeing a long lost friend.

Hope everyone has been keeping up with the 'what's new' section.. alot of great shows from Maud and Garth coming up soon! Hope to see some of you at the Woodstock show..

Hope everyone out there is well and hanging in there. Missed you all! Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.

Posted on Fri Sep 28 12:56:04 CEST 2001 from (158.36.51.55)

jh

The guestbook is back, now as a moderated forum. This means there will be a delay from your submission of an entry until it shows up in the guestbook. If it passes the "idiot-filter," that is. Enjoy.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 21:49:11 CEST 2001 from (63.15.114.249)

Hi

Both of you guys are in your 40's? Java's pathetic comments about "you people" and "dinosaurs" when he's forty something himself, plus saying he wasn't in the chat room and now admitting he was, told more about himself than I'm sure he meant to.....Was your apology for making fun of someone in a wheelchair sincere? Or were you just making fun of someone who is overweight?.....I'm still waiting for your recommended listening.........What's taking so long fellow dinosaur?

Posted on Wed Sep 19 21:23:12 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read yet. For a day and a half, the Band and its members have not been mentioned in any posts, and, yet, there have been a ton of posts.

I got a nice response from Butch the other day, and the Hubert Sumlin project is due to come out the first of 2002. My Levon/Blues collection is growing. Now we need a Barnburners release!

Posted on Wed Sep 19 20:13:45 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

I have never read anything more idiotic in my entire life. Dan you are 40 years old try to act like it.

Java...when it seems like nobody likes you and wants you to go away, i know it's hard to believe, but what it means is that nobody likes you and they want you to go away.

On another point...has anyone been watching what is happening to the market...Dow is down 309 in the futures contract, nasdaq 60, s+p 36. This is a very difficult time for the world.

I am interested in what people think the actual resolution to our current conflict, U.S./Afghanistan not Dan/Java, will be. We have all expressed our beliefs of what SHOULD be done in our own opinion, but what do we think will actually happen. My personal outlook is unfortunately fairly bleak.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 20:09:31 CEST 2001 from (66.41.97.175)

dan

hey little pee-pee javs, I was just takin a dump and i was thinkin of you. Yea, I work at a out dated facility making 75 grand a year, sending out welfare checks to losers like you with no jobs. Poor me. Oh well, gotta get some sleep, stay on your computer all day and all night, because that is what you do best. That does show you how anti-american you are bro, because if your putting down a american institution like the post office, you must have no regard to anything american. What's next, the army, yea thier outdated also. this is my last post to a loser like you, because these good people AMERICANS, don't want to listen to you babbling on. Good work by lil' by snaking you out on those anti-american comments you made. We will back-track and see excactly what you said. By the way loser, what is your name, aheeb? We will be watching you. Sorry j, aka,webmaster, this loser, anti-american deserved it. As always, peace out, keep on rockin and god bless america

Posted on Wed Sep 19 19:51:35 CEST 2001 from (198.164.200.214)

Java

Mr. Rick Smith, I never said I didnt like The Band. I just said they are no longer. I will be glad to recommend some music sfter I take care of this matter with Dan.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 19:47:36 CEST 2001 from (198.164.200.214)

Java

How appropriate Dan. A dinosaur working at an otdated institution, the post office. Don't know why we can't meet at 10. Does it take u 2 hrs. to get ready for work? No matter, show up tomorrow at 2 and put ur money where ur mouth is. Sorry Jan, but this guy has it coming!

Posted on Wed Sep 19 19:42:39 CEST 2001 from (129.120.129.214)

Rick Smith

Java, yesterday I asked a couple of sincere questions: 1) If you do not like the Band why did you come to this site in the first place, and 2) can you please provide some examples of what you consider to be GOOD music. You mentioned a few posts back that your next post would address question 2. Could you please do so now?

Posted on Wed Sep 19 19:33:48 CEST 2001 from (198.164.200.214)

Java

Dan, I work midnight shift tonite too. I am in my early 40s and in great shape too. But that is neither here nor there. Good thing ur inshape cause u dont get much of a workout at the old P.O.

Tell you what, lets meet at 2:00pm EST tomorrow. You should be up by then, seeing u sleep all night at work anyway.

Do you accept?

Posted on Wed Sep 19 19:11:06 CEST 2001 from (64.23.165.18)

JTULL FAN

Good God people. Last week there was much acrimony out here but at least there were circumstances behind it. But today? We are fighting over...what? Let's just try and have some mutual respect. And I am rather tired of the GB flamers who seem to post with the sole purpose of causing trouble out here. Poor Jan, he creates such a wonderful outlet for Band fans and a tribute to their work, and it gets treated this way. There are 6,000 people who lost their lives last week. Let's remember that and use the gift of our lives in a more appreciative manner. Regarding the Billy Joel post, he will be part of this Friday's telethon on all U.S. networks. Neil Young, Tom Petty, and Paul Simon are invilved as well.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 19:06:40 CEST 2001 from (195.100.1.172)

Ilkka

Just making Pat Brennan's latest post to "gb terrorists" more concrete:
1) Get yourself an own private home page. Post a link. If someone likes to read it, he/she can do it without being confronted in this gb without a warning. It is free in Yahoo and many other services.
2) Open the own discussion forum like Yahoo Club. It is also free.
(Web page is only a vCard.)

Posted on Wed Sep 19 19:02:20 CEST 2001 from (66.41.97.175)

dan

hey java, you know what dude?, if i didnt't have a job like you, I would blow you away at rock and rool trivia tonight. But, alas, I do have a job (unlike your self) and I work midnights at the post office. Yes, that's right the UNITED STATES post office. A FEDERAL institution. And you know what else java? I'm 40 years old and in great shape, ( not a secretaries butt like yours), and this old fogie would love to serve america in this struggle that we are in. You never know who is going to have to serve in this war that is immienent. Your probably 60 so you might not have to worry about it. Like I said earlier, before you open your trap and start critizing dylan, "old music," "old fogies", etc. k know what your talking about, because there will always be birddogs like me, snaking you out, because obviously, you don't know what your talking about. And you want to schedule a r and r trivia contest during the day, I'll blow you out of the water. In the meantime, I have to get some sleep so I can get the mail ready for AMERICA. As always, peace out, keep on rockin' and god bless america.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 18:41:00 CEST 2001 from (198.164.200.214)

Java

Hey Jan, you should really do something about Dan. He is overstepping his limits. At least I make some interesting points. This guy is just a jerk. Don't worry,I wont stoop to his level.

Dan, i will take you on in a music trivia battle anytime. But where? If we do it in here you will just accuse me of looking up the answers. Tell you what. I said I would not return to chatroom. But that is the only forum I can think of to do it. Meet you there tonite at 10pm EST. Don't worry, I will be polite and will not use foul language. All are invited to watch this guy get a whoopin'. What you say Dan, do u accept?

Posted on Wed Sep 19 18:35:35 CEST 2001 from (216.41.85.170)

Eric

Sorry for the disappointment - I just love The Band & think this is a great site - the Guestbook could be one of the best parts.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 18:31:32 CEST 2001 from (198.164.200.214)

Java

Okay Lil, good detective work. I surrender. I was having a little fun in chatroom yesterday. I said hello to guests and even tried to converse with them but they were rude to me. They were the ones who started the nonsense, not me. And I didnt use foul language either. Everything I said was in jest. I thought it was quite funny actually. But what the hell, I will apologize anyway. You all feel better now? Dont worry, I'm not a chatroom person so u wont see me around there anymore.

There is something I must address though. Lil said something about me making comments in chatroom about NYC bombings and Jan. I don't know what that was all about. I felt as bad about it as everyone else. Why do you think I stayed away for a week? If not, I would be on here making jokes about it. Do you really think I am that sick? Check back on my posts. They are not obscene in anyway. I can't say that about other postings I've read.

I swear on my sons life I never said those awful things. Yes I have a son and a girlfriend. I'm divorced, hey it happens! And I am a Christian also.

You people probably wont believe me but I speak the truth. God knows it I know it, and thats good enough for me. I believe the only time I was truly out of line was when I made the Maud comments. I apologized then and I apologize now. I had no idea shwe had a disabnility. I inquired about it but no one would inform about it. I thought that was very rude. Oh well, no big deal. Bye for now. Hig Lil :o)

Posted on Wed Sep 19 18:23:31 CEST 2001 from (166.90.86.185)

Pat Brennan

Yes, please. This GB is an international site based in Norway. Offending the webmaster shows a lack of manners, among a myriad of things. Also, engaging Java, while entertaining, is futile. If you need to do either, go private, please.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 18:19:52 CEST 2001 from (205.188.192.182)

Amanda

Oh Eric.....don't get disappointed. This GB is totally Band related. We have been going through some tough times here lately and life is just getting in the way...ya' know what I mean????

Posted on Wed Sep 19 18:09:28 CEST 2001 from (64.12.101.178)

bob wigo

Please move this intriguing battle of wits over to email. On behalf of all here with detectable IQ's I thank you.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 18:07:30 CEST 2001 from (216.41.85.170)

Eric Fergerson

It's disappointing that there is so much arguing here. If someone is being deliberately annoying, why give him/her any attention? I thought this was a Band-related guestbook, and it doesn't really seem that way at all. It's disappointing.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 18:01:13 CEST 2001 from (66.41.97.175)

dan

hi java, the reason that I know that you have a small penis is that your girlfriend told me. And the only reason she is satisfied because I'm (as BTO would say) "taking care of business!" Say hi to java, honey. By the way brainchild, the new CSNY album is "looking forward" and it rocks! And who cares if you looked up the history of csny, all you do is spend all day on your computer, your only friend. Hey java, have a nice day, I am. As always, peace out and keep on rockin!

Posted on Wed Sep 19 18:00:50 CEST 2001 from (198.164.200.230)

Java

You should all listen to Craig. At least he's hip to what I'm trying to say. I agree with you wholeheartedly Craig, who really cares who played guitar on some song 30 yrs. ago? Or if there is a connection between The Band and Ornette Coleman? Surely there are more relevant things we could be discussing.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 17:55:27 CEST 2001 from (152.163.204.177)

Amanda

Craig: I beg to differ regarding posters like Java and the purpose they serve. Most people that visit the GB don't have a problem with varied opinions or musical tastes. Java has consistently berated GBers and a few of the artists that we come here to celebrate. The GB (and the entire site)is a wonderful place to gain knowledge. I, personally, have not learned one damn thing from Java. He/She/It has never been an active or worthwhile participant in any discussion here. Rude and degrading behavior serves no purpose. Going to a chatroom (on any website) and making derogatory comments about the U.S.A. and people suffering is just downright IGNORANT! If this Java Jerk is serving any kind of purpose....it is to teach other idiots how to be MEAN and CRUEL!

Regards to you Jan and other GBers....I have no patience for coldhearted behavior.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 17:52:21 CEST 2001 from (198.164.200.214)

Java

Hey Dan, you think I have no knowledge of music? These artists that I have criticed deserved such. I've listened to most, if not all, of the stuff I have criticed. I'm not sure what the last Stones album was, as I have no interest in them anymore. If I were to wager a guess I would say Bridges to Babylon. They havent put out a decent album since Some Girls. They WERE a good band at one time. They peaked in early 70s with Beggars Banquet, Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Ya Yas, Exhile on Main St. It has been a steady decline eversince. Even u must admit that. They were so desperate they went disco with Black and Blue. These bands were great once, but not anymore. Thats what I've been trying to say, get it?

I saw the Stones Steel Wheels Tour in 89 and I must admit I enjoyed the show. But that was 12 yrs. ago when Wyman was still with them. A lot of water under the bridge since then.

I saw Santana in 1975, saw The Dead,Bonnie Raitt, Canned Heat, James Cotton, Supertramp(yuch), Dire Straits(very disappointing show btw), CSN-what a joke, Neil Young-not bad, John Prine, James Gang, Bob Seeger to name a few. So u can see I am not a kid but I know when its time to step aside and let some new blood in. These dinosaurs dont know when their time is it. Kind of like watching an old Ali lose to Trevor Berbick. Sad.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 17:33:48 CEST 2001 from (198.164.200.230)

Java

Lil, I never said anything about NYC bombings or Jan. I am not so insensitive as to say those things. I am not a sicko.

Dan, CSNYs most recent album that I know of is Farther Along. I got it for Christmas a couple years back and yes, it sucks.

Young and Stills came from Buffalo Springfield, Crosby form The Byrds, Nash from The Hollies. Satisfied?

By the way Dan, you are awful interested in my penis. Are you gay? Maybe you are the one whos insecure. My girlfriend has no complaints. You are disgusting Dan. And you think my posts are unsavory!

Posted on Wed Sep 19 17:28:05 CEST 2001 from (66.41.97.175)

dan

hi jh, though you might not think that your guestbook (since you make the decisions), is "not america", there are many american people posting here. You can add asinine comments by java, but when a true american defies his comments you come and dog me. Who cares where this site comes from, there are american people talking about music, the tragedy, history, etc. Whose side are you on. Better yet, Norway better be on america's side, because if not, this site might not exist next week. As always, peace out and keep on rockin!

Posted on Wed Sep 19 17:06:23 CEST 2001 from (158.36.51.55)

jh

Dan,
For the record: This is _not_ America, it's a web server in Norway. And you're entitled to whatever opinion you may have, but the editor of this site decides if it is suitable for inclusion here.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 16:53:28 CEST 2001 from (64.12.101.152)

bob wigo

Calvin, While some here understand that the radical sects are a clear minority, we are, on the whole, frighteningly undereducated on matters concerning the cultures we are now dealing with. I would look to someone like Cat Stevens not so much to mediate but to educate.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 16:46:51 CEST 2001 from (152.163.204.63)

calvin

I dont know that someone like Cat Stevens is needed to mediate Bob, It seems from everything I know that the radical moviement makes up a very small percentage os Islam, and that the vast majority of it's followers do not support them in any way. Now I hear this morning rumours that the footage CBS showed of arabs dancing in the streets after thee WTC attack was stock footage from 1991 they dug up because they heard it was happening. But knowone actually saw it. If that is true everything Ive been thinking about how our media has done themselves proud the last week is out the window.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 16:04:35 CEST 2001 from (64.12.101.152)

bob wigo

The mention of Cat Stevens raises a question.

Is it possible that he could play a critical role in this horrid dilemma? He is a deeply spiritual, highly intelligent man with broad cultural experience. He is eloquent and articulate. I believe he should be given an opportunity to speak both here and there. Any thoughts ?

I have not seen or heard anything from Billy Joel as yet and am curious. I know of no one in the music industry with more of New York in their heart. My experience with Electric Factory Concerts in the late seventies and early eighties revealed an incredibly generous and forthright man. I am certain he will be heard from soon.

How long will it take for major musical acts to begin to stage benefit shows around the world ? McCartney, The Stones, Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Dylan, Sting, et al ? They and countless others owe a good part of their fortunes to this great country and I'm sure will respond to the cause. Thousands of families will be needing financial assistance very soon.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 16:01:00 CEST 2001 from (64.64.94.194)

Charlie Young

I drove by the Pentagon yesterday for the first time since the terrorist attack and it was still shocking to see in person. I cannot imagine how stark the NYC skyline must look in person. A close friend of mine in Brooklyn told me that he has avoided seeing it so far.

Last night those "dinosaurs" called Crosby, Stills and Nash appeared as the only guests on the TONIGHT show besides US Senator John McCain. C,S & N performed four songs, including amazing versions of "Find the Cost of Freedom" and "America the Beautiful." I thought that dinosaurs were supposed to be extinct. Those three never sounded better, nor have they risen to an occasion more impressively. Stills even told a story about someone who asked what they were doing while McCain was in a Vietnamese prison and he said, "in our own way we were trying to get his butt home." At the end of the show McCain actually hugged David Crosby. The times they are a-changin'...

Posted on Wed Sep 19 15:08:21 CEST 2001 from (141.214.1.218)

Steve Knowlton

Sherry: I think people are turned off "Empire Burlesque" by the hideous cover art. Was that done with Microsoft Draw (remember that program)? And where on earth did he get that jacket?

When your first impression is that the artist has lost all sense of visual aesthetics (surely Bob had some input into the cover) then it's hard to be objective about the music.

By the way, I listened to "Watkins Glen" last night and noticed the announcer introduced "on piano, Richard Man-u-EL." Is that right? I always assumed (probably from the credit on "Planet Waves") that it was pronounced more like the word "manual."

Posted on Wed Sep 19 14:39:34 CEST 2001 from (66.41.97.175)

dan

hey craig, who said there was anything wrong with teen idols. You don't like dylan and I think van morrison kinda sucks. So what, this is america, and everybody is entitled to his opinion. My problem with java is that he is putting down music that he has never listened to. If you say tower of power is great, I'm glad you like them. I'm not gonna say they suck, because I've never listened to them. Java will say they suck, because you like them. That's the problem. Know what your talking about first, before thorwing out such negitive comments. And it sounds like you and java should get a room somewhere, and don't forget the britney posters. Peace out and keep on rockin!

Posted on Wed Sep 19 14:09:57 CEST 2001 from (24.2.9.42)

Craig

Dan- I have no love at all for Java's posts, for certain. But why do you make the leap from not liking Dylan to Brittany Spears and masturbating (which by the way, Woody Allen refers to as "Sex with someone you love")? I have no affection for Mr. D. I think he's a boor and a bore. But I don't say that as I'm walking into the local music store to buy the latest teen idol cd. I'll put my musical taste and acumen against yours any day but it is different in a lot of ways. Dylan is an acquired taste that I have never ever acquired. Some of my friends feel the same way about Van Morrison. I think that attitude is borderline criminal but then again I can see that when singers are "stylists", not really singers ( let's not argue that in this world of varied and beautiful voices, that Dylan, Cohen, Neil Young and yes I guess even Van the Man are truly good singers. They have a singing style that many find enjoyable. In most cases they are exceptional poets who should "sub" out the singing jobs to real singers)personal taste takes over. Java and his like serve a real purpose here in that they post stuff that prompts reaction and discussion often keeping us from the mundane "did Barney Google play with the Band in the summer of 73, the year of the crop failure when Nellie the town whore was sucking back draft at the Red Lion....". No need to go to the depths and stretch from anti Dylan comments to Brittany Spears or the backstreet boys. Do you really think that with "acquired tastes" like Dylan, Cohen or even Van, you are in the majority? I worship The Man and I'm well aware I'm in the vast MINORITY. Rather than talking about "Bob, Mr.Mumbles" anymore, I'm going to go listen to some Little Milton or Tower of Power or some Marc Jordan (? - ask John D.) No teen idols there.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 13:31:45 CEST 2001 from (66.41.97.175)

dan

hey java, you say your posts are insightful? The only insight I get from you is you are a unknowledgeble piece of crap. Have you listened to the new dylan album. No. What do you listyen to anyways? And what about all those Britney Spears posters in your bedroom that you focus on while your masturbating? In your head, you are thinking "do it to me one more time", britney. Shame, shame. I learned from your posts that you are a insecure, combative person that gets his jollies off by arguing with people. No friends, no girlfriend (or boyfriend for that matter), estranged from family. If you know so much about all those "old fogies", what was the last stones album, when did the last CSNY album come out. Huh? You don't know. Why? Because you havn't listened to any of it. In other words, you have no idea what your talking about. I don't mind posters speaking thier negative comments, as long as they did thier homework and have something constructive and intelligent to say. You just throw out criticism because your life is so miserable. So, why don't you take your small penis (you know it is small, that's why youe so miserable), and go to another chatroom, so us old fogies can talk about great music and oi positive comments. So think about this, java, and say your sorry about being such a ---hole and maybe we will for give you. And by the way, Nsync are on leno later on in the week, so get your vaseline and paper towels ready. Peace out, and to all us old fogies, Keep on rockin!

Posted on Wed Sep 19 13:14:03 CEST 2001 from (199.224.105.125)

Diamond Lil

Will wonders never cease? It seems we must have a bonafide mind reader amongst us. Just yesterday in the chatroom a person "impersonating" Java came in and actually said (verbatim) alot of the things that honest and sincere Java just posted here ("I find my posts to be insightful and provocative", "Someone actually told me to f**k off..can you believe that?", "I have never used obscene or foul language as some others have"). God I am impressed! Someone here was actually able to know what Java was going to post word for word, a whole day before it was posted! And gee Java.. I guess you're pretty upset that the cruel remarks about the NYC tragedy and the derogatory names Jan was called were posted in the chatroom by this terrible imposter using your name.

Sorry to all of you who this doesn't concern, but my crap-tolerance level has just about reached it's peak. Thanks.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 10:05:11 CEST 2001 from (212.185.252.194)

Mingus

Talking about vastly entertaining....

Why can George W. never win a chess game against Bin Laden ?

Because he lost two towers already....

Sometimes incredible situations are only bearable by humour and I think this one describes the situation quite well.

Band related: I am listening to Moondod Matinee bonus Tracks writing this. Gives me the power I need right now.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 06:53:34 CEST 2001 from (64.230.39.86)

brown eyed girl

This place can be vastly sarcastic and condescending.....I guess a lot of people here are influenced by Dylan and Louuuuu after all.........I'm so glad everything's back to normal........ ;-D

Posted on Wed Sep 19 06:37:49 CEST 2001 from (209.244.65.114)

Pat Brennan

This place can be vastly entertaining.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 06:20:20 CEST 2001 from (152.163.201.207)

Brien Sz

Science is always wrong. It never solves a problem without creating ten more..., George Bernard Shaw

Posted on Wed Sep 19 05:52:07 CEST 2001 from (152.163.201.82)

Sherry

Can I get some opinions as to why Empire Burlesque never received much acclaim, it is one of my favorite Dylan albums. Tight Connection To My Heart, and others on the album, are wonderful. Also, why are such great talents as Charlie Sexton and Maria McKee relegated to relative obscurity in their careers? Wonder what Cat Stevens would have contributed to the music world if he had not left the business, he was always one of my very favorites.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 05:29:27 CEST 2001 from (64.230.39.86)

brown eyed girl

"MOONSHADOW is what I call the eternal optimist's anthem, which is fine. If that's the final word on my music, I think that's what should be remembered.".......Yusuf Islam (born Steven Demetre Georgiou) became Cat Stevens during the seventies...........has been mentioned a couple of times lately..........

The very last concert I stood in line was for Cat.........I joined the line at 2:00 a.m. and still wasn't able to acquire tickets when the record store opened it's doors........I WAS SOOOOOOOOOOOOO DISAPPOINTED!!!!!!!.......No one knew at this time that Cat would not be performing again............I never stood in line again for a concert........

Cat's mother is Swedish and his father is Greek Orthodox.......You can imagine the uproar his conversion caused in the Greek community..............................Why did he change his religion to Islam? Well........He apparently experienced an epiphany in 1975 when he nearly drowned in Malibu, California.........He embraced the Islamic faith and quit the "BARREN MORAL and ETHICAL EMPTINESS" of the music business........It has been reported that he has dedicated himself to increasing awareness of Islam and he has devoted his energies to educational, humanitarian and charitable endeavors.......

Bronx Sam: What about Mr. Long Island........Mr. New York Cool........Mr. Rock and Roll Heart........Mr.Rock and Roll Animal himself........the one and only........Louuuuuuu coming up with songs concerning the atrocities in New York?.......After all.......it was Louuuuuuu who wrote a musical crtique of New York.......remember STRAWMAN...........FROM NEW YORK?..........."Does anybody need to be told over and over.........Spitting in the wind comes back at you twice as hard..........Strawman, going straight to the devil.........Strawman, going straight to hell........If you're like me I'm sure a minor miracle will do..........A flaming sword or maybe a gold ark floating up the Hudson.........WHEN YOU SPIT IN THE WIND IT COMES RIGHT BACK AT YOU"..........

Hank: You put a smile on my face today...........ya mentioned LOUUUUUUUUU.... :-D It's interesting that it took until the 1980's before both Louuuuu and Dylan would admit they really liked each other's writing..........What do you think Hank........Lou is the better guitarist, right............and how come he is sooooooooo fascinated with feedback????? Now, I've never seen Lou play slide........Bob plays slide in HARD RAIN........too bad Mick Ronson is only shown once............but then I have him on ZIGGY STARDUST AND THE SPIDERS FROM MARS........and I have seen him with Dylan playing together on The Rolling Thunder Review Shows..........

Anyway......when I first listened to some tracks from LOVE AND THEFT........I wasn't drawn to his new work at all......but since a lot of you really think it rocks.......I'll give it another try.........Except for ........"I'm stranded in the city that never sleeps..............that's the Dylan that moves me..............

Oh......one more thing about Lou Hank......(thanks for letting me indulge here).......Did ya ever see the film where Lou has a cameo appearance with Harvey Keitel.............and Lou says something like......."I only feel safe when I am in New York"............THE TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGIN................FOR SURE...............Apologies to Bob Wigo who posted that Lou Reed is God.............. ;-D

Posted on Wed Sep 19 05:25:36 CEST 2001 from (198.164.200.214)

Java

I hear somebody was impersonating me in the chatroom today. Obviously a primitive attempt at a frameup. Don't worry Mr. Hoiberg, I wouldn't be caught dead in there. You dinosaurs really sunk to new depths on that one.

By the way Mr. Viney, Shakespeare was overrated. Besides, Marlowe, Bacon, and others wrote al his stuff anyway.

I don't know what it is with you people. If someone expresses a differing opinion you don't want to hear it. If one of your icons puts ougt an albuim that sucks you wouldn't admit it anyway. I believe my posts have been insightful and provocative. I have not been obscene or used foul language as some others have. Some people even told me to f&*k off. I would never stoop so low. I always keep my posts within the boundaries of good taste.

Are you dinosaurs going to ask people that have difering tastes and opinions to leave? Believe me, there are others who share my views but I think they are afraid to express themselves as they will jumped on and verbally assaulted as I have. As long as I keep my posts civil, as I always do, I am free to express myself as I see fit.

You dinosaurs are narrow minded and hypocrical. I trhought we lived in a democracy. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

In my next posting I just may recommend some music for you old fogies to listen to. Hug Jan :o)

Posted on Wed Sep 19 05:15:09 CEST 2001 from (209.244.65.114)

Pat Brennan

Crabby, no mention of the Children's Crusade? I'm surprised.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 05:03:12 CEST 2001 from (209.244.65.114)

Pat Brennan

Has anyone else received the email on what the US's first response should be to last week's evil? I have to admit that I am intrigued by it. It involves a massive airdrop on Afghanastan of leaflets written in the Afghani language detailing very precisely the human cost of bin Laden's actions: numbers killed, various religions of victims, races, creeds, ages, occupations, etc. Prime objective: to show this is a crime against the world, not just the US. Then two simple questions: do you think this is good or bad, then what are you going to do about it.

To make the first strike a non-violent dissemination of information is genius. It also would personalize the victims, rather than let people write them all off as evil Americans.

Yeah, I know I said I wasn't gonna talk about this anymore, but this is different. Email me if you want me to forward the whole thing to you.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 03:40:54 CEST 2001 from (63.46.57.193)

Crabgrass

Okay, gang - put on your thinking caps for this one!!

Directions are simple: Just read the following and decide which makes the MOST sense - A, B, C, or D. (Brain use is strongly encouraged. Please do not choose more than ONE (1) answer. Answering correctly indicates that your I.Q. is somewhere between 20 and 500. Don't rush, take your time, enjoy the read and Good Luck!!)

A.) CRUSADES - A number of movements in Catholic Western Europe, especially during the 12th and 13th centuries, that aimed to free the "Holy Land" from Muslim rulers. The name derives from "crux" the Latin word for cross. The Crusaders wore large red crosses sewn into their shirts. On November 27, 1095, Pope Urban II appealed to Christendom to liberate the Holy Land. To entice people to participate in the efforts, he offered Crusaders forgiveness of their financial debts as well as their sins. Although technically warring against Muslim armies, the Crusaders found excuses to attack others, many of whom had no adequate means of defense. In addition to Orthodox Christians, such as those who fell victim to the Fourth Crusade, a large number of European Jews were slaughtered by those infused with the crusading spirit.

B.) JIHAD - Islamic notion of the struggle against SIN and EVIL. "Jihad" is often translated as "Holy War" but its meaning is actually broader. For Muslims the goal of life is to submit oneself to the Will of GOD. But forces opposed to God tempt human beings to abandon God and pursue other goals. In every arena of life, then, people should struggle to resist temptations and evil. This struggle is called "jihad." "Jihad" includes a personal internal struggle against temptation (Jihad of the Heart). It also includes attempts to combat error and spread the Truth of Islam orally and in writing (Jihad of the Tongue and Pen). In addition, because Islam does not dichotomize or split religious and secular spheres, Muslims believe that it may also be necessary to fight for God's truth with military means (Jihad of the Sword.)

C.) THE INQUISITION - A religious court established by the Roman Catholic Church in the early 1200s to try to convict heretics. Heretics are people who are members of the Church by Baptism but do not believe and practice Christianity according to the Church's teachings (e.g. Crabgrass). Until the early 1200s local Bishops were responsible for discovering and punishing heretics but were subsequently replaced by the Pope who established his own inquisition. Those in charge were often Dominican friars who reported directly to the Pope. This inquisition was active especially in northern Italy and southern France and directed against heretics known a Cathari and Waldensians. By the 1400s it was also investigating Witchcraft. During the 1400s Christians managed to conquer all of Spain. (Spain had been Muslim since the late 600s.) In order to Christianize the territory the conquerers required Jews and Muslims to leave even though their families had lived in Spain for centuries. To ensure that everyone living in Spain was Christian the rulers, in cooperation with the Pope, established the Spanish Inquisition which was particularly interested in persecuting Jews and Muslims who pretended to practice Christianity in order to avoid being forced to leave. The Inquisitors were notorious for their brutality.

D.) HUMANISM - As used today, a religious philosophy of life that emphasizes attention to human needs and values in the world, rather than to God, the Afterlife, and Otherworldly concerns. Those that believe in putting the good of human life and society in the world first while living perhaps with a sense of wonder and awe toward human life and nature can be seen as taking a religious path though one without God in the traditional sense and may be called religious humanists. Characteristically, humanists hold that only that which can be learned through science or direct observation can be regarded as known for sure, and that a good, useful, and happy life can be lived based only on this kind of knowledge. Many would add that RELIGION in the traditional sense is OUTMODED, UNNEEDED, and CAUSES MORE TROUBLE THAN GOOD.

Thanks to The Enclopedia of World Religions edited by Robt. S. Ellwood which was used for reference.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 01:53:16 CEST 2001 from (205.188.197.182)

JTULL FAN

Peter, that is an interesting point on 'crusade'. In the same way, National Public Radio this morning had a similar story on the use of the word 'jihad', and its many (and mostly benign) connotations, so this certainly works both ways among any two languages. Working for a German firm I frequently here German-born coworkers ask bilingual Americans for the proper english phrase to make sure the connotations are correct. However, in most international crisis, governments, particularly opposing ones, understand that leaders have to speak to both their constituents and through diplomatic channels. They realize that leaders have to speak to their country's emotions, and then wait for the 'real' messages through diplomatic channels. Unfortunately, the opposition in this case doesn't have that sophistication of discernment. Musically, I agree with you. It is a defiant act against such oppressive regimes. To lighten the mood here: lets airdrop tons of Twisted Sister, Black Sabbath, and the Sex Pistols cassettes and posters on Kabul.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 01:00:59 CEST 2001 from (195.82.121.32)

Peter Viney

A few days without political comment, but I read “The Times” carefully today. I think that the vast majority of the free world wish George W Bush all the very best at this time and hope that he will rise above his inauspicious election to become the man of the hour. He is not a man who has a way with words. He’d admit that himself. Glibness doesn’t equal sincerity, and I would not accuse him of insincerity, believing that he is speaking from the heart, but will someone please tell the man to stick to the script? By which I mean check his words with experts. He likened our (and I mean “our” not “your” I hope) next phase of reaction to a ‘crusade’. It’s a word with different meanings in our society. We talk about a crusade against drugs. A crusade against poverty. But in the Muslim world this will only be read in its original sense, an act of war by Christians against Muslims. I know that he did not mean it in this way, but this is the way it is being read across the Middle East.

‘The Times’ has analysed responses to such an ill-chosen word, as well as earlier responses across the world. People like the King of Jordan put their necks on the line in a very real way, when he said ‘I am a direct descendant of the Prophet, and this act was against all the laws of Islam’ The Saudis have said the same. The recently maligned Cat Stevens (aka Yusuf Islam) today repeated that Islam totally forbids the killing of innocents. We need these people. We need these voices in the hard times ahead, which will be a battle for minds. Talk of ‘crusades’ undermines our Muslim friends, not our enemies.

It also seems that Kabul (a bombsite already, just a sea of rubble) is not a good target. Kabul has been foully treated by the Taliban, because politically and tribally, the people of Kabul have always opposed the Taliban. Recently a 15 year old girl and her mother were severely beaten in the streets because the child needed to lift her veil to use her asthma inhaler. Another report today pictured a taxi driver beaten to the ground by the Taliban because he had a music cassette in his car. Cassette tape adorns every (unlit) lampost. Music is illegal in Afghanistan.

Which is why I’ve stuck to music (or mere facts about music, which is my limited best) for the last few days. And to which I’ll return. Remember, music is the enemy for these … no, I can’t write ‘people’ for such slime.

Posted on Wed Sep 19 00:55:14 CEST 2001 from (206.77.150.207)

pehr again (sorry, sort of...)

I've followed cars with Pat Robertson stickers on them in Texas (and wondered why they would want him for prez..." Wow eee! Pretty scary!!!!!!")

Posted on Wed Sep 19 00:39:49 CEST 2001 from (152.163.197.204)

JTULL FAN

Has anyone ever actually MET a follower of Pat Robertson & Jerry Falwell?

Posted on Tue Sep 18 23:28:54 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

BAYOU SAM....Not that it's any big deal; but the town Letterman was talking about was in Montana.........therefore let's hear it for Montana and Minnesota and everywhere else in the free world.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 23:26:32 CEST 2001 from (63.28.242.109)

rollie

To answer your question Twilight . The CIA transferred sensitive weapons technology to some fanatical Muslim extremists.Sheik Abdel Rahman, may have implemented this into his bombing of the WTC a few years ago.The CIA funded Afghani troops in their fight against the Russians to the tune of 5 to 6 billion dollars. On a more positive note , I just got back from the Telluride Blues and Brews fest where I had the opportunity to both watch and perform with some of my heroes.To make a long story short,I was overwhelmed by the power of the entertainers and their music, who attempted ,under great duress, to begin the healing process for many. As difficult as it was, it underlined once again the importance and value music plays in all cultures.Keep a good thought folks...........

Posted on Tue Sep 18 23:15:18 CEST 2001 from (63.17.107.57)

Hi

Excellent..........Tom T. Hall is a GENIUS!

Posted on Tue Sep 18 22:54:25 CEST 2001 from (206.77.150.207)

Pehr

I like:Little baby ducks

Old pickup trucks...

Posted on Tue Sep 18 22:15:35 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

That is The Newbeats...with Larry Henley. Cool song. I remember that from the scene in 9 1/2 weeks with the always smoking hot Kim Basinger.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 22:04:38 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

I like toast and jam...

Posted on Tue Sep 18 22:04:04 CEST 2001 from (63.17.108.162)

Hi

Is that by the NewBeats?

Posted on Tue Sep 18 21:56:01 CEST 2001 from (205.188.197.32)

bob wigo

I like bread and butter...........

Posted on Tue Sep 18 21:50:07 CEST 2001 from (63.17.108.162)

Hi

I was skeptical about all the acclaim to this Dylan record also....Rolling Stone and most reviewers opinions mean very little to me and I was actually shocked at how good it is.....we've been waiting a long time for Java's recommendations for some worthy music....Really we know what you don't like now what is it you like ? Seriously....

Posted on Tue Sep 18 21:18:57 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

I finally did read last night that Robbie Robertson and Storyville were being reissued on Sept.18th. My guess is that it is a straight reissue since there has been no fanfare about it, but these two cds never went out of print. Anyone know anything about this??

Posted on Tue Sep 18 20:55:59 CEST 2001 from (12.33.178.117)

twilight

Welcome back Steve! Most of the people in here welcome your posts. Is there any truth to the story that Osama Bin Laden was trained by the CIA? I keep hearing it, and I'm not sure that it's been broadcast on CNN. *^&)) (@* ^)& #*$*!

Posted on Tue Sep 18 20:41:34 CEST 2001 from (166.90.64.3)

Pat Brennan

Actually, both Robertson (as in Pat) and Falwell have tried torturously to distance themselves from their own remarks. Their attempts are pathetic studies is obfuscation. How will their followers react to the possibility that both of them are bigots and liars? Probably by sending in some more money.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 20:36:22 CEST 2001 from (152.163.197.62)

Bayou Sam

The Letterman show last night was something to see. Besides the incredible sight of Dan Rather crying twice - Dave was great. Rather apologised at one point and said he's a professional and isn't suppossed to break down. Then when he did it the second time Letterman says, "your a professional, but good Christ, your a human being," while holding rathers hand. Amazing stuff.

Letterman also told a great story - He said that there is a small town in Minnesota (sorry - I forget the name), that is a farming town that has been suffering a drought for about three years. This is a town of only 1600 people. Well, the night before, they held a rally to raise donations to send to N.Y. Letterman says that if that dosen't tell you something about the people of the United States of America, then he can't help you. Great story. Great people in Minnesota.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 20:28:44 CEST 2001 from (199.224.105.111)

Diamond Lil

Eric Fergerson: What a wonderful tribute to Rick! Thanks for posting it.

I just received an e-mail from a firefighter friend of my late husband, who just returned this morning from several days of rescue efforts at the WTC site. He says (and I quote):
"The sadness and exhaustion down there are overwhelming, yet hope remains the strength. Without hope, there is only the inevitable fear of reality".

I guess there's a lesson there. Hope. In times like these, I pray we never lose it.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 20:26:32 CEST 2001 from (152.163.197.62)

Bayou Sam

Until we all try to learn to ingore the fool Java, he/she will continue to go fot the reactions that we somtimes give his/her posts.

Let's try to ignore.

- there ought to be a law against you hangin' around here.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 20:12:28 CEST 2001 from (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

I was sent to hell last week by another poster. I hope a week off the Guestbook is punishment enough :)

As usual Bob Dylan knows the real truth about history. Although A.G. Bell got the patent for the telephone, it didn't work very well until Edison invented a carbon-filter transducer to amplify the sound waves into electrical energy. The telephones we use today still operate on Edison's, not Bell's, design. Bell did have the smarts to create the monopoly, however...

Posted on Tue Sep 18 19:46:38 CEST 2001 from (64.12.104.42)

Ben Pike

As for Limbaugh or the American right wing trying to distence themselves from Fawell/Robertson: sorry, too little too late. They spout this kind of wacko nonsense all the time, but our welcome fixures in the "left wing" media. Professional nutball Bob Dornan was banned from the halls of congress by his own party, but he has a welcome home on fox news where, like Robertson, he has been brought in as an expert on the middle east. Fawell is a regular on many shows, including the liberal(sic) Rivera. There are of course comperable nutcases on the left; you can hear them yammering to no one in the middle of the night on small FM radio stations. Some probably made knee jerk anti Isreal responses to the bombings, you didn't hear about them, because you have never heard of them. John McCain took a chance and spoke out against our Christen creeps in the campaign,and it was so much for him. Bottem line: they are our Taliban, and they hold sway over one of our major politcal parties. Oh, every one seems to love this new Dylan album.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 19:32:33 CEST 2001 from (209.195.208.10)

bassmanlee

After much soul-searching by the presenters, the Eli Whitney Folk Fest went on as scheduled in New Haven, CT this past weekend. While the events of the week were never far from the minds of the audience, and from their comments and song selection, the performers, it was a comfort to be around a community of traditionally gentle souls, sharing our sorrows, hopes, and fears. Friday night's concert featured three excellent artists, Jess Klein, The Kennedys, and Lui Collins. Each did a short set and after intermission did a song circle, joining in on harmony and accompaniment although none had performed together before. Ms. Klein kicked off the last song of the night with a short guitar into and, "I pulled into Nazareth..."

Quote of the week: "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind..."

Posted on Tue Sep 18 19:13:29 CEST 2001 from (147.26.108.233)

Pehr

Lovely article Jan. thank you.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 19:12:54 CEST 2001 from (216.41.85.170)

Stacey Reis

Eric F. - I too am new to this guestbook so this is a new experience for me. Thanks for posting that song, I listened to it and it was beautiful. As a long time Rick fan it means a lot to me that he won't be forgotten. I have been terrified the last few days, I'm not sure why. I'm afraid of our government and I'm afraid of theirs. Not sure what side to be on, or if it even matters. I need the Band's music now, more than ever.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 19:07:34 CEST 2001 from (147.26.108.233)

Pehr

My lightbulb rang off the hook last night!

Eric Fergerson thanks for sharing the song about Ricky. very nice

more crisp thoughts from John D... It saddens me to think this "war" may go on alot longer. It may be a way of life. Things have changed. I dont know how much of this war we will ever hear about. It will be very stealthy and quiet i believe.

I am bouyed by the resolve of our country and the support of the entire world. After years of hearing U S A! U S A! being chanted by extremist zealots there was something very different seeing our people chanting it from this shore. I believe some of the most aggressive, warlike zealots over there are beginning to shit their knickers- I can read it in the statements being released by the darndest sources, most significantly the Afghan "leaders" that are inarticulate in the extreme at best, and in hiding. We dont want to live the way they want us to, which is 6 ft under. There is no question about it.

Dylan's Record grows and grows on me. It is powerful. On Tuesday it helped me immensely. The final track is IMHO a masterpiece.

on another thread the peoiple that want to bash Clinton over this I find pitiful. It's a great time for unity and to relax this need to be judgemental and look for some compassion in your heart. Fix your own crap.

reminds me of our friend java.Go back to Krakatoa.

I do appreciate living in a society that values free speech. I'm more willing to accept the goofy things I will hear as a result. But petty meaness and petty tyranny are going out now. I believe we are evolving in some ways.

Be kind, sweet, patient and fabulous in your own way. I believe the profound cunning and ruthlessness we need to meet this challenge will come out of this. thanks, gang.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 17:42:25 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

I don't mind telling you I didn't sleep well last night. Watching Dan Rather on The Letterman show was chilling. Explaining (in his words) that this war could last many years (he said it could go 10 years) I suddenly felt very uneasy. As I approach 55 years old, I have only thought about the future...in terms of retirement with my wife.......maybe grandkids one day. Taking it easy......enjoying my tunes.........traveling. All of this has changed this past week. I'm not going to say there should not be retaliation. There has to be. The President has to act. As Rather said this is not like any war that the U.S. has ever been involved in before. Your going after people in 55 countries and most of them are hard to find. The thought of a decade (more or less) of war is very disturbing and I just wonder....... if there were 19 assassins who died last week......how many more are there here now ready to strike again when war begins? It will be the sons and daughters who will die and according to some, the casualties will be much greater that Vietnam. These are just ramblings this morning and my own personal thoughts. Just felt like talking.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 17:41:31 CEST 2001 from (216.41.85.170)

Eric Fergerson

I'm a frequent visitor to the Band's web page but have never posted before. But I wanted to share this with Rick Danko and Band fans. The link above is to the sound clip page of a band I just discovered from Boston. They wrote an incredible song for Rick Danko - and they're just kids! I copied the words for posting here.

Back To Memphis

If I never saw you

You’d still live in my dreams

Calling out from stages

And music magazines

If I were a painter

You’d be green and gold

Carved out of matches

But broken out of stone

Taken from the fire of your fiddle

Words of unspoken, blinding truth

If I couldn’t see it, I was lost in my youth

But I’m going back to Memphis – after you.

If I could have seen you

With blood on your bones

Poison in your fingers

But music in your soul

You could have been my lover

Taught me everything I know

But now we are your children

Your flowers in the snow

But all you ever wanted was to see the heart of the city, oh

And all you ever got was hand to mouth

So I know you’ll be walking for a long, long time

Cause you’re going back to Memphis – heading South.

Brothers till the night came

And whispered in the pines

Tempting me with secrets

To play a game with time

Now I feel you in the walls

And I know you’re in the air

And it’s just like I can touch you

You’re living everywhere

But all you ever wanted was to be in the heart of the city, oh

And all you ever got was handed out

So I know we’ll be walking for a long, long time

Cause we’re going back to Memphis – heading South

Going back to Memphis – heading South.

Particularly lovely in light of what has been going on these days. God bless you all.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 17:29:03 CEST 2001 from (205.188.198.153)

Amanda

Ooooooo...I don't think Dylan sounds tired at all! I think he sounds rejuvenated! His voice has so much character and depth.....in some ways, much more appealing than his young voice. I say keep on keepin' on Bob Dylan....and that goes for any other distinguished artist out there. I'm hoping life doesn't end at 60!!!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Posted on Tue Sep 18 17:23:24 CEST 2001 from (199.224.105.95)

Diamond Lil

Jon Lyness: Thanks for posting. I've thought of you this past week...

As hope for survivors at the WTC lessens, my thoughts also go out to anyone who has lost someone close to them. It makes me think of those who mean the most to me.. and appreciate their presence in my life more than ever.

Bob Wigo: I too, have been listening to Rick's "Times Like These" quite a bit the past few days, and yes.. it is a gift from him to all of us indeed.

And today, I'm listening to Jonas Fjeld's "Tidevann". Beautiful music, some words of which I understand, others I'm working on.. and it soothes.

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 17:06:36 CEST 2001 from (24.159.102.250)

DP

On my way to services this morning, had to put on the new Keb Mo CD, right on que, America the Beautiful, is playing. Funny, when I first heard this version and saw Keb play it, I thought, this is strange, but the timing could have not come at a better time. In the Ray Charles mode, Keb does a wonderful version and all in need of healing, should listen.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 17:00:37 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

A week that seemed to last years
A time of grief & tears
The eleventh of September
A day we all shall remember...

"O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyone the tears
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!"

Posted on Tue Sep 18 16:51:25 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

I'm still not sure why Java keeps coming around. It can only be for the reaction he/she gets. On a positive not for Java...maybe you could tell us what we should be listening to. I'm a young guy but really love this music. So the old fart criticism doesn't really aplly. I think I'm young enough to be hip to your scene so let me have. What are the next five cds I should buy. Thanks, in advance, for the input.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 16:54:55 CEST 2001 from (129.120.129.214)

Rick Smith

Java, a couple of sincere questions. 1) What brought you to this guestbook in the first place? 2) Enlighten us; now that we know what (in your opinion) sucks, what SHOULD we be listening to?

Posted on Tue Sep 18 16:50:22 CEST 2001 from (63.215.118.217)

Pat Brennan

There's a very funny tape floating around of Ray Charles and his band starting up "Busted." Ray gets the first two lines out when someone in his group starts yelling and carrying on, repeatedly calling Ray a "dog." Ray does exactly what any genius would do in the situation. As the guy keeps yelling, "Ray Charles, you a dog," Ray announces to the stunned audience that the man (actually his guitarist) was a bit overserved, but that we had to "love our brother," even as the guy kept yelling. Ray also calmly asked for security to come to the stage. Eventually the aggrieved guitarist was removed and the show continued.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 16:42:29 CEST 2001 from (209.166.233.21)

Jon Lyness

For those who remember me from the GB of the past few years, please know that I am fine...my office internet service has been down because of the Verizon equipment that was destroyed, but is now restored. It's been a grueling week for our city, but witnessing the incredible spirit here...from the selfless firefighters, police, and rescue volunteers, all the way down to average New Yorkers...is getting us through. And we do need that inspiration. More than once in the past week I've found myself thinking of Rick and Tom Pacheco's song You Can Go Home:

You'd have to be Christ...to forget and forgive...One day at a time...is how you must live

Been catching up on the guestbook posts from the past week...in among the understandably high emotions, some very moving and thoughtful posts. Thanks to all, and god bless you and your families.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 16:29:37 CEST 2001 from (158.36.51.55)

jh

Java,

I'm sure you can find something better to do than spreading negative vibes in the guestbook and harassing people in the chat room. Go play somewhere else, will you?

Posted on Tue Sep 18 16:20:42 CEST 2001 from (195.82.121.45)

Peter Viney

From the ‘London Gazetter’ for September 1606. The Java column.

Wow, that Shakespeare is really washed-up! Can’t see what you old farts still see in him. He hasn’t written anything decent since 1594. He’s a dinosaur. So this Hanlet or whatever is #3. Who cares? All the kids are secretly going to watch Cornelius Tribblethorpe plays nowadays. Most of Shakespeare’s stuff was crap anyway. That Marlowe was rubbish too. What a wimp! These people have had their day. They’re dinosaurs! As for the Kings Men, call them players? I’ve seen better acting from most of my ex-girlfriends, and gee, all of them are ex now. Don’t know why. Shakespeare only draws the ghouls who want to see him kick off on stage. Maybe he’ll hire Richard Burbage again and then you can see two old farts together. It makes me sick. Talk about a no talent loser! You’re all fools!

Posted on Tue Sep 18 15:49:45 CEST 2001 from (157.142.169.45)

J. Patrick Crain

Hey, Java, I'd rather be a has-been than a never-been. Your tirade against veteran rock acts is tired. If it weren't for veteran rock acts, the musical landscape would be a glossy and pop infused detritus. If that's what you want, fine. But why would you come to a GB that is frequented by people who obviously love the Band and, therefore, veteran rock acts? I dunno. Name me a band from the last 20 years that comes close to the Stones, Little Feat, the Band, Steely Dan, Ry Cooder, Dylan, Tom Waits, or Neil Young. Even at their geriatric worst, they are still a whole hell of a lot better than most rock acts at their best.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 15:30:50 CEST 2001 from (205.188.193.34)

bob wigo

Crabby, Alexander Graham Bell would have invented the light bulb if not for the constant interruptions of the telephone ringing.

Hank, I'm hearing a little Tom Waits in Dylan's new material. The shift in perspective and the lighter touch is serving him well.

Thank you Rick Danko for your song "Times Like These". As I listen it is as if you left it behind as your gift to us all in "times like these".

Find peace in your own heart, the rest will take care of itself.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 15:20:27 CEST 2001 from (198.164.241.141)

Java

To all you Dylan fans out there. So Rolling Stone gave his new cd a great review. And who does the reviewing? Boring old farts who are lost in the past. Of course trhey are gonna give all these dinosaurs good reviews. Rolling Stone is a rag, a joke! So his concerts are selling out and his album is #3. So are the Backstreet Boys. That doesn't mean they are any good. A lot of the biggest selling stuff is crap anyway. All these old farts and young wannabes are rushing out to see Mr. Zimmerman before he kicks off. Yes, the same kids who wear Dead tye dyes but secretly listen to N Sync. Just jumping on the bandwagon. You fools go ahead and pay big bucks to see this guy. Maybe Leon Redbone will be his opening act, talk about a no talent loser. Dylan couls publish his grocery list and you fools would run out and buy it. Is he still a born again Christian or has he joined Cat Stevens cult? Wow, there was another wimp! Maybe Gregg Allman will hire back Dickie Betts and you can go see those bums too! These people have had their day. Step aside and let someone else in. Please don't tell me you old geezers like The Stones too. They are perhaps the most pathetic of the entire lot.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 14:44:24 CEST 2001 from (64.23.165.18)

JTULL FAN

Crabgrass: Doesn't Walter Becker live in Hawaii too? P.S.2001: I agree with you that Falwell and Robertson are abhorrent. It is also important we not give them too much attention. They are shock-value artists. Check out the article I mentioned on the Rush Limbaugh site where he slams them. Now, I am not advertising Rush Limbaugh here, but if you want business news, read the Wall St. Journal, if you want a liberal perspective, read Mother Jones, and if you want to see how far out Falwell and Robertson are, then conservative condemnations are the most telling...

Posted on Tue Sep 18 13:34:43 CEST 2001 from (64.12.103.39)

Brien Sz

I'm glad Dylan is keeping busy and making new music..,I personally haven't enjoyed his music since Infidels but hey, that's just me. It seems tired and the voice is tough to listen to for more than a song or two. I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..,

Posted on Tue Sep 18 11:34:28 CEST 2001 from (193.203.148.121)

Hank

Ah now.....don't be so hard on those who think Dylan is a has-been and all washed up.....

Dylan sez it himself on 'Love and Theft'.....'The girls all tell me I'm a worn out star' he sings

'Old Homestead' anyone?

Posted on Tue Sep 18 10:41:14 CEST 2001 from (66.41.97.175)

dan

hey java, dylan is washed-up allright. He just came out with a critically acclaimed album, was written up in this months time magazine as aliving legend, was given 5-stars by rolling stone for his new album, is selling out all over the country on his up-coming tour, is writing a new book, is rumored on a new show on HBO, blah, blah, blah. Yea java, that sounds like he is really washed up. Now why don't you put your backsteet boys cd back on, and climb under that rock you just came out of. And for the true dylan fans, I'll see you at the shows!

Posted on Tue Sep 18 08:04:14 CEST 2001 from (63.46.57.95)

Crabgrass

BTW I feel like I was put here to do what I do just like Alexander Graham Bell was going to invent the lightbulb.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 07:25:21 CEST 2001 from (209.214.116.32)

BWNWITennessee

Jon D. - $82 for Dylan!?! Where? Go see him in Nashville, $29.95, festival seating.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 06:44:06 CEST 2001 from (206.148.224.107)

Jon

To answer the question, "Who cares about Dylan?", a few posts back, last time I checked Amazon.com (no I'm not advertising for them), his new album ranked #3 in sales. Pretty good for a "has been". It makes me wonder who that guy is I see on the TV, in the magazines, sold-out concerts and music reviews. I thought it was Bob, but I guess it's an imposter. No "has been" recieves that kind of attention. I'm glad you let me know it was my imagination. I went ahead and placed my order anyway, just to make sure it's really him.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 06:20:21 CEST 2001 from (63.46.56.240)

Crabgrass

Received From: Io@jessecolinyoung.com

September 16, 2001

Dear Friends:

It is Sunday here in Hawaii and the sound of weed whackers is alive in the land. On the surface life is the same here in the little farms that surround us but in some ways we are beginning to understand it will never be the same. In honor of all who died on Tuesday I am trying to learn something from this tragedy. What is it that I don't understand? How can I make some sense out this horror? Where is the lesson that was so dearly paid for by those souls who are no longer with us here on earth.

We sang "Get Together" today in church. "Love is but a song we sing, fear's the way we die." That made sense to me and felt right. Justice for our people is one thing and revenge is another. There was a man standing on our main intersection here in Kona Wednesday with a sign that read "Nuke Afghanistan!". I know that angry urge to destroy the "enemy" flashed through many of our hearts including mine. But we know that is not the right way....that is the ancient way and we have been trapped in it's cycle of violence for millennia. We should protect ourselves and bring these ruthless killers to justice. But how do we do that without becoming ruthless killers ourselves? Is war not by it's nature ruthless? So many of my friends who were in Vietnam did things under orders there that they could never otherwise conscience. And those acts haunt many of them to this day.

I don't want my country to be torn apart by hate. Peace and justice can not live in a heart filled with vengeance. I don't want us to become like those men who took such joy in bringing such horror to America. Let us work together on our "right action" in everything we do. I know that will help. And let's let our President know that we understand the difference between justice and revenge and that we insist he act accordingly.

What a precious gift this life is! My love to all of you.

Jesse

Posted on Tue Sep 18 06:22:59 CEST 2001 from (152.163.205.67)

Dave Z

I'm wit ya Hank... luv Hawks and Doves... nice slowy pace... also like Thrasher and Pocahantus... similar to me... can't help but think after remembering that Danko/Young pool table photo... that the world coulda used a lot more Danko Young harmonizing...

So Hank, seeing we are at war... we need a super group... kinda like a musical dream team... so who would be on your ideal super group... as of today?... Here's mine... RR on guitar, Garth on various stuff but mostly his synth/sax/accordian with the Crowmatix sounds, Levon on drums, Dylan on harp (only) but he could share lyric writing load with Robbie just no singing this time... Lanois on whatever is closest to him at the time... and we need some women... let's pick Miss Marie and Amy... to do some leads and shrieks... round 1 would have Robbie and Dylan write the words and stuff... round 2 would pull in Garth... but then as an equal so there might be direction changes... round 3 is to play it... tweek it... record it... and then round 4 is to turn it over to Lanois and Professor Louie... near the end bring em' all back in... and of course you'd need God to enable synergy, teamwork, etc,... OK I'm silly and spewing forth... but I'm in a loose good mood tonight...

maybe that Dylan CD is good... I'm enjoying the bounces... but I really ain't heard anything in a while that really knocks the socks off me... must be the kids are sapping my energy... nay...

Posted on Tue Sep 18 05:56:42 CEST 2001 from (209.221.212.156)

Dave the Phone Guy

Hank......I thought Mr. D and the fellas sounded real good on the "74 Before the Flood tour. I can't compare with TLW 'cuz I didn't make that show. I liked the fact The Band was kinda pumped and agressive(loud)on the '74 tour.

IIkka______I'm tuning my bass and guitar to "dial tone". Will I still be able to play along with your cell phone? Are polkas 3/4 time signature like a waltz ?

Posted on Tue Sep 18 05:47:30 CEST 2001 from (198.164.241.141)

Java

Who cares about Dylan's new album anyway? He's a has been.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 05:14:11 CEST 2001 from (194.125.43.126)

Hank

I reckon Bob Dylan and The Band NEVER sounded better than when they segued from 'Baby, Let Me Follow You Down' into 'I Don't Believe You' at TLW.........

OK.......

Watch......

Someone's gonna write in and say....'That's NOT they way they played it and it's all overdubbed anyoldhow!!'

You just Watch.......

Yep.....it's great to see The 'ole GB back to normal.....if 'normals' the word for it....Ha! No offence, Jan....or anyone!!!!... but I just couldn't help but laugh about some of the crazy shit that goes down in here...... I'm sure you know what I mean...... and yep....'Love and Theft' will steal your heart away......Ka-BOOM!........just like that........I'd really like to hear Levon play with Bob........nothing agaist Dave Kempner...he's really great!......but the bluesy-jazzy vibe Bob's puttin' out would be very sweet with Levon, I reckon......of course, Bob could always do a Polka album next.......

Anyone remember when Rolling Stone were 20 years old in 1987 and they did a documentary about themselves and had interviews with EVERYBODY?.....Ha! except Dylan.......and Lou Reed was talking about how Bob was gonna get even better as he grew older....then they cut to a Rolling Thunder Revue version of 'Tangled Up in Blue'........Lou got it right, I guess.....what'cha think Brown Eyed Girl?

New Thread Alert!!! Levons drumming on 'The Old Homestead' on ....uh....'Hawks and Doves' by Neil Young I've been listening to that since I was 19....always dug it....... I wanna hear from y'all whether it's a good/great/lousy track and why........all that stuff...... Another possible thread.....Is that song, 'Hawks and Doves' relevant these days or would those of you who are familiar with it find it embarrassing.....Me? I used to sing it busking and at acoustic gigs...(ie I never got it together with a band ) 'cos I thought it was a kick-ass tune!........I couldn't take the words seriously, tho' for some reason.....I always felt that Neil was kinda singing what he THOUGHT those who HE thought were Red-necks would wanna hear.......I don't know if that makes ANY sense....but that's the way I typed it.....and I ain't going back........

Posted on Tue Sep 18 05:09:48 CEST 2001 from (205.188.192.189)

Bayou Sam

This was in the New York Daily News last week. I thought yooz might find it interesting.

DYLAN SINGS THE BLUES OVER NEW MUSIC

Bob Dylan wrote "The Times They Are A-Changin'" but his taste in music apparently stalled in the last century.

In fact, the 60-year old Dylan hates just about everything kids today like."The radio makes hideous sounds", Dylan told Time magazine.

The legendary folk rocker has few encouraging words for Beck, the eclectic musician who dabbles in various styles and is often compared with Dylan. "You just can't be that good at everything you touch," he said.

As for rauncy rappers like Eminem, Dylan said: "I almost feel l;ike if anything is controversial, the guy's got to be doing something right."

Dylan does like some current artists, especially jazz singer Cassandra Wilson. "I love evrything she does," he said.

And Dylan's new album, Love and Theft," has evidence that he hasn't been living in a cave since "quitting" the music buisness in 1987. On a track called "Cry a While," Dylan uses the phrase "booty call."

In an unusually revealing interview to promote his 43rd album, Dylan also speaks for the first time about ex-wife Carolyn Dennis, who was one of his backup singers, and the teenage daughter he had with her.

"I get into fights with her if I talk about music," Dylan said of his daughter.

Now nearing retirement age, Dylan said he's writing an auto biography and having trouble remembering the details of his life. But he's sure of his place in history.

"I've had a God-given sense of destiny' he said. "This is what I was put on Earth to do. Just like Shakespeare was going to write plays, the Wright brothers were going to invent an airplane, like Edison was going to invent a telephone."

Posted on Tue Sep 18 04:55:13 CEST 2001 from (63.228.42.215)

P.S. 2001

It's official folks. Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson have secured their place in hell. I hope the two racist, sexist rich right wing bastards burn there. I hope there elitist god sends a plane into their mansions. I guess hes the one that controls evil insane radicals. NO. God put us humans here on earth. We create our future. We make the decisions. Did anyone listen to what Jesus was saying? Im a faithful irish catholic. These guys should be ashamed of what they said. I'm young-But is anyone with me?

Posted on Tue Sep 18 04:53:36 CEST 2001 from (152.163.205.78)

Dave Z

Nice article Jan...

Posted on Tue Sep 18 03:10:23 CEST 2001 from (206.148.224.166)

Jon

Here's the address for the Fallwell/Robertson article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28620-2001Sep14.html

A few posts back the link just lead you to the nain page of the post. Thought it might help.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 01:22:43 CEST 2001 from (152.163.205.78)

JTULL FAN

So NICE to get back to some music, and I say that with all due respect. The polish side of my family always indulged in food, card playing, and alcohol after family funerals and I understand why. That said, I am really getting lost in the new Dylan album. It has so many subtleties you find upon each listening.

Posted on Tue Sep 18 00:24:19 CEST 2001 from (195.82.121.144)

Peter Viney

More. ‘Are you ready for the Country’ is the most intelligent compilation for a long time, as it is supposed to be “the soundtrack to the book” by Doggett. From the same Feb 69 session as ‘Champagn, Illinois’ comes Johnny Cash’s ‘Wanted Man’ (Dylan). Doggett has not chosen the obvious, but the songs that make his points about the roots of ‘country rock.’ ‘King Harvest’ is a perfect choice (as it’s also a chapter title in the book) – anyone else would have compiled The Night they Drove Old Dixie Down (yet again). The Byrds choices are Time Between and Full Circle (plus just about every member except McGuinn gets a solo spot). The last great Band compilation choice was also the “soundtrack to a book” compiled by the author- “American Heartbeat- Travels from Woodstock to San Jose by Song Title’ by Mick Brown (Virgin 1994). His Band choice was ‘In A Station’ (starting the journey at Overlook Mountain in Woodstock).

Posted on Mon Sep 17 23:53:41 CEST 2001 from (195.82.121.115)

Peter Viney

On 'Are you ready for the country?""Champaign Illinois" is the Carl Perkins version. The notes aren't that clear, but it looks as if was cut at the February 1969 Cash / Dylan recordings where Perkins was playing guitar, and he and Bob co-wrote it. The notes say "Dylan has never performed or recorded this song." Several songs on the set have Dylan links - Wallflower with Doug Sahm, Rita Mae by Jerry Lee Lewis, I Pity The poor immigrant ' by Judy Collins.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 23:00:54 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

Jan: Great article on Rick!

Has there been any word on the Hubert Sumlin project? It was a tribute to Muddy, but I have not heard about it in awhile.

I now have a musical connection with my 3 year old daughter. She knows the words to all the songs on her Shrek soundtrack, and since Robbie played a part in it, I feel very proud. I think it is still a little early for Howie B however.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 22:43:03 CEST 2001 from (193.203.148.14)

Hank

When Bob dylan was on 'Dharma and Greg' he requested 'Dharma to play a polka when she auditioned for his band......'Mojo'magazine agrees with my Leon Redbone vibe theory offa 'Love and Theft'

Posted on Mon Sep 17 22:40:46 CEST 2001 from (205.188.192.156)

butch

Listening to the NEW Buddy & Julie Miller record,,,,, due out in the stores tomorrow,,,

a truly wonderful record,,,,,with tunes by Julie Miller & buddy of course,, but mainly julie,, Richard Thompson, Dylan ( WALLFLOWER ) & Emmylou Harris,,,

a true melodic brilliantly written & played record,,, in my opinion,,, just what my world needed,,, This & Bob's new one,,,, Stay Strong,,,,,, bd

Posted on Mon Sep 17 22:31:26 CEST 2001 from (130.126.32.133)

Susan

David Powell: thanks for the link. Now I'll have to wonder what brought about the connection to Champaign. I should get my husband to add the song to his repertoire, but the other guys in his band are from Urbana (twin city to Champaign)and might not appreciate it. The Carl Perkins connection should go over well when they play the country bars and VFW halls.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 22:27:05 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

I reached a point this past weekend when the constant news reports just became too numbing for me to watch, so I turned to some music for solace. Garth's "The Sea to the North", Dylan's "Love and Theft", Sam Phillips (Burnette)'s "Fan Dance" and Buddy Guy's "Sweet Tea" brought some temporary relief.

Most soothing was a recently released CD from the Naxos label "American Classics Sampler" (with an American flag appropriately on the cover). Naxos is a budget ($5-$7 range) classical label. As part of their ambitious series of releases by diverse American composers, this sampler contains short pieces & excepts from those various releases. Highlights include John Phillip Sousa's "March: Hands Across the Sea", Ferde Grofe's "Mississippi Suite-I.Father of Waters", George Frederic McKay's "From a Moonlit Ceremony-I.Evocation", Victor Herbert's "Al Fresco", William Henry Fry's "The Breaking Heart (except)", John Cage "Prelude for Meditation" and Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings". During these difficult times, I've found this CD to be very uplifting in an almost spiritual sense.

Postscript to my earlier post about "Champaign, Illinois" -- come to think of it, I don't think the song has appeared on any Dylan bootlegs, although other cuts recorded at the time with Cash & Perkins have. I am familiar with the version that Carl Perkins recorded on one of his Columbia albums, "On the Top" (1969?).

Posted on Mon Sep 17 21:55:52 CEST 2001 from (62.6.83.114)

TERRY

GREAT SITE , keep THE BAND ALIVE!!

Posted on Mon Sep 17 21:05:34 CEST 2001 from (195.82.121.27)

Peter Viney

Thanks to Jan for his wonderful article on Rick Danko (see What's New).

A double DVD of probable interest is 'The Old Grey Whistle Test" (BBC, released today, Region 0, Mono, 4:3). This programme was vital listening in the UK and much of Europe in the 70s. On an initial budget for live material of £500 a week they recorded the cream of 70s musicians live in the studio. Bob Marley's & The Wailers' 'Stir It up,' has to be the high point. Add Randy Newman, 'Rednecks', Little Feat 'Rock & Roll Doctor,' John Lennon 'Stand By Me,' Springsteen's 'Rosalita'+ Captain Beefheart, Bill Withers and so many others over four hours of archive broadcasts and interviews. Sadly much of the first year was recorded over to re-use video tape. What remains is pretty amazing.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 20:52:05 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Susan: "Champaign, Illinois" is a rather playful song that begins with the verse:

"I got a woman in Morocco
I got a woman in Spain
Woman that's done stole my heart
She lives up in Champaign"

For the complete lyrics, click on Web page link to the "expectingrain.com" website that I've entered above. The song was written in 1969 while Dylan, I believe, was in Nashville recording with Johnny Cash. Carl Perkins was a member of Mr. Cash's band at the time and the songs they recorded back then have turned up on bootlegs.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 20:50:41 CEST 2001 from (129.120.129.214)

Rick Smith

A polka thread! For the next wave in polka, seek out anything from Brave Combo. Winners of the 2000 Grammy for polka and hailing from the great polka capitol of Denton, TX(!!), these guys play it (and other musical forms as well) like nobody's business!

Posted on Mon Sep 17 20:03:30 CEST 2001 from (130.126.32.133)

Susan

I just looked at "What's New" and the page for "Are You Ready for the Country". There I find that Carl Perkins and Bob Dylan wrote a song called "Champaign, Illinois". I've never heard of this, which is surprising since the local boosterism around here would surely have made much of the song, and reminded us of it at every turn. Unless, perhaps, it is not flattering. What's it about?

Posted on Mon Sep 17 18:48:02 CEST 2001 from (64.23.165.18)

JTULL FAN

RE; The Falwell/Robertson thread: Rush Limbaugh is condemning their statements as being as fanatical as islamic militants. Interesting times these are...

Posted on Mon Sep 17 18:43:22 CEST 2001 from (195.100.249.160)

Ilkka

Thread: POLKA (1) - JTullfan: Thanks for the response.
In the late sixties and early seventies there were not too many bass players around in the small town where I lived. I played occassionally in (freely translated) "CARPENTER McHILL'S WEDDING BAND". Mostly waltzes, tangos, jenkas or foxtrots but even some polkas. The more the home made liquor was served even for the band, the more slower the fingers of "The Carpenter" danced on the keyboard of his accordion. Me and the drummer, we weren't into liquors so we kept the beat. So, DAVE THE PHONE GUY, BASSMANLEE and others on bass and BAYOU SAM and others on drums: let's keep the guestbook beat if others will get drunk :-)))))))) Or like BILL WYMAN said in the Swedish radio; "With me on bass and Charlie on drums, ANYONE could do ANYTHING:"

Thread POLKA (2) During the WW2 the Russians did sent their propaganda on radio to my home country. The Finns sent "Säkkijärven POLKA" on the same frequence week after week, month after month, maybe year after year - continuously, to cover up the Russian voice. After more than five decades this very same POLKA can be heard as one of the standard ring tones in the Finnish NOKIA mobile phones!

Posted on Mon Sep 17 18:29:57 CEST 2001 from (152.163.206.211)

butch

Well,,,,,, The Barn Burners & Levon tore up Great Adventure / SIX FLAGS in New Jersey, last night,,,,,,,,,,,

With Guests David Maxwell, on piano , & Michael " MUDCAT " Ward, on acoustic upright bass, Pat, Levon & Chris gave everyones lagging spirits , a much-needed lift !!!!!!!!!!

The BLUES will help cure yo' ills, for sure,,, & as the Barn Burners tore thru their scorching set, folks started to smile a bit more,,,, walk a little lighter,,,& generally, feel better, if even for just 90 minutes,,,,\, We had Levon's drum kit filled with American Flags & there was a HUGE flag behind the stage,,,, & when CHRIS went into his tribute to his US MARINE BROTHERS,, " Scared & Lonesome " yells of " Semper Fi " & G-d Bless America could be heard,,,

Levon & Mudcat were grinnin @ each other all night long,, a powerful rhythm section,, the boss drummin up a storm, Chris' vocals never were stronger & his harp playing was inspired,, really inspired,,, as usual, Pat's playing was clean & lean, not a wasted note,, just the meat of the music,,,amazing the sounds he can get,,, one guitar & all those drums,,,

it proved again that Muddy Waters, Lil Walter, Jimmy Rogers, The Wolf,Willie Dixon & many, many more BLUES artists are just as viable today as in the 50's,,,

,,,& we seem to need it more,,,, it was a Tour de Force & even our old drum tech, PAULY, now with Hot Tuna, came out to hang with the fellas,,,

So, if ya gonna be near Shirley MA this friday, or W.Helena next month,, come on out & catch the show,,,

ill be there,,,, you should be too,,,,,

Posted on Mon Sep 17 15:48:08 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

JTULL FAN......They were confusing it with his infection. Just bought my Dylan tickets for November 8th. Each ticket...$82.50 plus tax. I have never paid this much for tickets before; but I really want to see him on this tour. Then again when Mark Knopfler was in town his ticket prices were $125.00 per. Bob seems like a bargain in comparison.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 14:50:31 CEST 2001 from (64.23.165.18)

JTULL FAN

ILLKA: Thanks for sharing that. I ronic how after making fun of my parents music when I was young I can gain new appreciations of it when I get older. Also, read a review that said Bob Dylan had a heart attack some time back. Is this true or were they confusing the infection back in '97?. Will be interesting to see the response Pakistan gets from the Taliban today....

Posted on Mon Sep 17 09:28:13 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti032.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.162)

Tommy

Rolling Stone, a JOKE????Nah.......

Anyway, you guys gotta read the above article(I hope I put in the right address.If not, just click on ARTICLES and find the one titled 'GOD GAVE U.S. WHAT WE DESERVE;Fallwell Says.)Man, is it scary.I don't know how many of you are religious,or follow these zealots, but if so, GOOD LUCK with these guys in charge!!!I'm sure "God" is very proud with their caring and sympathetic attitudes towards non-white,non-middle of the road Americans (ie;"SINNERS"!)...or HUMANS for that matter.They'll find something morally wrong with us ALL if they want to!

Fuck 'em.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 08:55:23 CEST 2001 from du187-1.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.1.187)

Ilkka

Thread: POLKA - Do you remember the polka thread we had here before the attacks in the USA? I was just about posting this little story about polka music. Click 'Web page' to read it. (The regulars who are doing their time here might have read it already for a couple of years ago.)

Posted on Mon Sep 17 05:47:36 CEST 2001 from (64.64.94.194)

Charlie Young

Thanks to the person who posted the words to Paul Simon's great song, "An American Tune." I took time to listen to it tonight and found the song both moving and comforting given the horrors here on September 11th.

Meanwhile back in the Dylan discussion, click the link above for a great piece by America's best music writer, Richard Harrington, comparing the new album to Bob's work with The Band.

Pat Brennan: I'm as disgusted as you with the remarks by Jerry Falwell. He and Pat Robertson often make me embarrassed to tell people where I live. Has it occurred to them that maybe all their right-wing, "less government" zealots who de-regulated the airlines may have something to do with this? Or that the $50 million that went to detail those 14 blow jobs Clinton got from that promiscuous groupie might have gone to raise the pay of the minimum-wage airport security workers? All I know is that ten years ago I said that the well-marketed Desert Storm parades were premature, that the survivors in the Arab world don't only hold a grudge for ten years, they hold it for GENERATIONS. My dad brought home a Bronze Star from Viet Nam, but he got no parade, just a memorial to all his dead buddies (I took him there for the first time this year). Now there are Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants in Viet Nam and a friend of mine took his bride there as part of their honeymoon recently. To me that was more of a victory than the one ten years ago--expecially since we Americans are still as dependent on Arab oil as ever...

Posted on Mon Sep 17 05:44:13 CEST 2001 from sqd40.nirai.ne.jp (202.239.129.43)

Fred

Just to let people know how far-reaching and long lasting the effects of warfare are, yesterday afternoon we couldn't leave our neighbourhood as an unexpolded bomb was found at a construction site about 2 kilometres from where we live. The bomb in question was a 250 kilo remnant of World War II...stuff like this happens quite often over here. I'm sure our European friends can attest to the frequency of unearthing unexploded shells from not only the Second World War, but also World War I.

I found out while talking to my mother, on the phone last night, that one of my aunts who frequently goes to the States was supposed to be in Washington D.C. on Sept. 11th with a group of students. However they had to postpone the trip, on sept. 8th, until October, due to some kind of paperwork snafu...who would have thought that bureaucratic negligence would turn out to be a miracle in disguise!!

Moving onto a lighter topic..I listened to parts of Love And Theft and Hank you do have a point about Dylan sounding Leon Redbone-ish especially on Po' Boy.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 05:16:23 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tg032.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.162)

Ben Pike

Sherry, you make my point for me. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Clinton bombed the aspirin factory(funny, those embassy bombings seemed to stop when there was less aspirin over there) in a "wag the dog" attempt to divert attention from the 14 oral sexes he got from Monica Lewinsky. Let us further assume, that when he brought Milsovich down and refused to feed the Kosavars to the Serbs(utterly scorned by the right AND left) that he was trying to get our attention away from the sixth year of the "Travelgate" controversy. Let us say his desperate attempts to hold the middle east together,( widly scorned as the hot dog antics of a president who had murdered Vince Foster and steadfastly refused to leave a shred of evidence, thus costing the tax payers millions as the republicans were forced to have the mattered reviewed by the local police, the F.B.I., and three special prosacutors) he was "only conserned with his legacy." Given all that, It is hard to avoid the bitter truth that had Clinton not been harassed from day one by the trival, the mean spirited and partisan, and the allmost uniformly false charges brought by a tabloid press and disloyal opposition, WE would have been a lot safer. I know, the media who titalates you with garbage will never own up this, oh, by the way, don't you think this whole Gary Condit thing is wild, I mean, gosh, it's just like Clinton except there was no missing girl and stuff. You know, they say She might have not taken her keys if She was going for a motorcycle ride..AH... there we go Sherry, I knew I could wake you back up.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 04:41:52 CEST 2001 from spider-te061.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.201)

Dave Z

Just got done with my first listen to Love & Theft... Has Rolling Stone reviewed Garth's new one yet?... If not, they should... and give it 5 stars... otherwise they are a joke...

Posted on Mon Sep 17 03:32:59 CEST 2001 from spider-wo061.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.46)

Brien Sz

An emotional day today. My wife and I went into New York City and visited the makeshift memorial setup in Union Square. The endless rows of faces that will never walk through front doors again was upsetting. Signs that said 'Where's my Daddy' were crushing to the heart. Words of Peace and Words of War were written everywhere. Some folks were there to pray, some to just bear witness. It was chilling. My wife had a hard time with it after a while and just wanted to leave.., We witnessed a lot today, I'm still sifting through all of it..,Though I may not be a man of great vision, I do know when to give thanks and feel grateful for all that I have..,And on this day, it is all the vision i need.

I heard on the radio that if you could tell one story a day about each victom of this tragedy, you would have over 15 years of stories to tell.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 02:39:59 CEST 2001 from spider-we074.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.54)

Bayou Sam

Calvin - Yes, bass playing will do just fine :-)

Posted on Mon Sep 17 01:22:10 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tb034.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.34)

Tommy

On the subject of bravery;

In my opinion, sacrificing lives (be it others or your own) when you have no regard for life to begin with (ie;a fanatical terrorist) is NOT bravery.Giving your life for others,when you have regard for life,is.Just like all those rescue workers who went in the towers before they went down and the people IN the towers that helped others get out regardless of their own safety.Sometimes,they didn't even make it out...but they tried anyway.

It's gonna be hard to fight an enemy that isn't afraid to die.

Posted on Mon Sep 17 00:32:24 CEST 2001 from pc51-131.hiof.no (158.36.51.131)

jh

Just testing after modifying the guestbook program a little... please ignore.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 20:13:58 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tc014.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.154)

calvin

I'm not sure if your aware John that the military leader who led and planned the entire defense against Russia was killed in a suicide attack a few days before the WTC was attacked. He was leading a group called the Northern Alliance that were the only real opposition group against the taliban. Seems most suspect the Taliban had a "friend" of theirs who they protect take him out.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 19:26:35 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tb081.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.56)

Amanda

Click on the link above. It will take you to the Hunger Site. Click on Give Free Food. All donations will go to the aid of victims and families in NY and DC. Doesn't cost you anything...just click.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 19:16:39 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-141.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.141)

Peter Viney

I’ve just sent full details to Jan. thanks to Bones for directing me to this. Robbie Robertson appears on lead vocals on one track, All This Means To Me on Folk. by Howie B (which is not a ‘folk’ album). Other guest artists on the album include David Essex and Sweetie on vocals, Robbie McIntosh on guitar and Jon Hassell on trumpet. No guest appears more than once.All This Means To Me features Robbie’s trademark breathy whisper over, sorry, under, a heavy computer bass line with delicate adornments from Howie B around this. The chorus is actually All this means this to me … I’ve noticed in past interviews how often Robbie uses ‘this’ in speech. It’s reminiscent of Redboy and the previous Howie B collaboration Take Your Partner By the Hand, which also featured Jeremy Shaw.

The political post got typed. Got considered. Is still sitting on my hard drive. maybe later.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 18:21:41 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

Pat Brennan and some others have really put it well. The bombing of Afghans, I don't think will happen in the traditional way of the Gulf War. Remember these are people who killed over 100,000 Russian soldiers. These people live in caves and mountains and move around a lot. In many ways it reminds me of Vietnam a little. Friends of mine who fought in that war were never really sure of who the enemy was at all times. Unlike WW2 where we knew where the enemy was and where to strike, this is not the case here. I believe there has to be some sort of retaliation……….and this comes from a sixties peace loving guy. What does scare me is that after we attack you've got to know that will enrage millions of people and I fear what happened in New York will happen again for many, many years. North America could find itself in a situation like Israel and the Palestinians. Killing each other year after year after year. It's not the way I want to live; but I don't really have a say in what will become inevitable.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 17:36:57 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.87.109.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.87.109)

Pat Brennan

I'd like to say something else here. There are few if any Afghans involved with bin Laden's network, and although I find it reprehensible, I realize there's little I can do if a country thinks it's a good idea to turn women into a minor form of humanity because of religious fanatacism. However, I do think discussion of this, at least from my end, is beyond the scope of the GB. If anyone would like tocontinue to discuss this subject, my email is always open.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 17:17:07 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.208.64.179.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.64.179)

Pat Brennan

Hank, although I always appreciate sarcasm, I didn't give you the freedom of speech. People who stood up against despots and tyrants did. All I did was remind you of them.

Have the Protestants or Catholics in Belfast declared a worldwide holy war against all Catholics or Protestants?

Concerning those children and their mothers you reference in your post. In Afghanastan, if they showed up on the street dressed like that, they would be arrested. If the men in those tragic scenes appeared in public in Afghanastan, they would be arrested for lack of facial hair. I am uncomfortable with a massive move against Afghanastan (perhaps you can thank me for that also); given the land-locked nature of the country, I doubt anyone else is too excited about it either.

Again, the bombers were highly motivated fanatics, convinced completely of the righteousness of their cause and the truth of their actions. They have been busy at their work for decades, a holy war as they call it. They are willing to lay down their lives in suicidal conflagrations, not as some military-industrial flunkies, but for an ideal, however misguided we find it. I find them and their leaders brilliant as should anyone who views them, for it prepares us for the efforts that will be needed to defeat them.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 17:01:17 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tf062.proxy.aol.com (64.12.103.47)

Sam Chaz

From Levon's "America's Farm" We gotta set our alarm wake on up and work America's farm We've got the ground, We've got the seed But she won't grow without you and me We've got the rain, the know how It's just a matter of grabbing a plow We've got the hands, we've got the arms I SAY IT'S TIME TO WORK AMERICA'S FARM

Posted on Sun Sep 16 16:10:32 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp262313.sympatico.ca (64.230.34.236)

brown eyed girl

D'Lil and other Parents

I received this memo at work that might be helpful during these tragic times.............

DEALING WITH TRAGIC EVENTS WITH CHILDREN

Allow children to express as much concern and grief as they wish.

Listen carefully to what your children are saying and respond appropriately.

Use straightforward language when talking about death. Use straightforward words like "dead", "death", and "dying".

If you do not know the answer to a question, simply admit "I don't know".

Maintain routines as much as possible.

Remember that the grief process and fear continue beyond the first day.

It is not uncommon for grief reactions to last several days and/or weeks.

Hank: In DOWN THE HIGHWAY THE LIFE OF BOB Sounes quotes Robbie saying that whenever The Band played with Dylan live they reverted to a very aggressive, bombastic attitude playing hard and fast. Robbie recalled playing the same way in 1966 as in 1974 and found it kind of hypocritical that in 1974 they were now treated as heroes whereas in 1966 audiences howled abuse at Dylan and The Hawks. Apparently it was the first time at a concert............the shows in 1974 that audiences raised their matches and cigarette lighters in a spontaneous gesture of solidarity when Bob would sing "Even the President had to stand naked".

Posted on Sun Sep 16 15:16:47 CEST 2001 from spider-tm073.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.78)

JTULL FAN

Don't be so sure we are going to bomb Afghanistan similar to the way Bagdhad was bombed. Bin Laden is in the mountains, not the population centers. Bombing there would likely be used to confuse them while SEALS go in on the ground to attack and apprehend those responsible parties. If a place like Kabul is attacked, it will be because the Taliban attack neighboring countries assisting us such as Pakistan, and even then it won't be Bagdhad style. This is going to be very different from our memories of the gulf. I don't recall requiring 35-50K National Guard to guard the homefron then either. They will be protecting our bridges, harbors, shopping malls, stadiums, water supply, power plants, etc. They are EXPECTING things to get ugly. That in mind, I don't think a big Central Park concert is wise. You just need one backpack bomb like in Atlanta's Olympic Park, and this one could have chemical or biological elements...

Posted on Sun Sep 16 14:49:27 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp190.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.190)

Diamond Lil

When you walk through a storm
Keep your chin up high
And don't be afraid of the dark
At the end of the storm
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of the lark
Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Though your dreams be tossed and blown
Walk on Walk on with hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone

Posted on Sun Sep 16 13:53:26 CEST 2001 from dialup-263.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.7)

Hank

In a recent post Pat Brennan writes:

'Hank, you are free to consider this a vast economic conspiracy. Of course, if you were Afghanastan and questioned the status quo like that, they would parade you into the sports stadium that the UN built for them and execute you. Luckily for all of us, you live in Ireland where they let all their people speak in public.'

Thank you for that Freedom, Pat!.......of course, I also live not too far away from a place, Belfast, where young girls have to run a gauntlet of Police and Army just to go to school......I'm sure most of you saw that on your TV screens over the past few weeks........Afghanistan does NOT have a monopoly on restricting Civil Liberties and persecuting people because of their race or religion or political beliefs........that goes on all over the world........with regards to other points in that post.......I do not doubt for a second the sincerity and the intelligence of the people who planned the last Tuesdays attacks.....but you can be sure that the ones who planned it were NOT the idiots/pawns who hijacked and flew the planes......if you can be convinced to do THAT and call it 'bravery', then, in my book, you're lacking in intelligence......they say there's a fine line between stupidity and bravery.....I would err on the side of stupidity when describing them fellas....... I do not doubt for a second the hatred of the so-called 'West' by these people but, more importantly, I do not doubt the ability of The Masters of The Military-Industrial-Entertainment Complex to harnass that hatred to their own profit......and even if some airlines go outta business, it's not like others won't take their place and people won't be able to fly..........their lapse security woulda put 'em outta business sooner or later anyway......sooner in this case........that's the Beauty of Capitalism, ain't it?.....only the efficient survive and you'll get the best........unfortunately for the people of NYC and DC and the passengers, it was sooner.........As I said, 'Meet The New War....Same As The Old War'.....

Hey! Does Dylan really say 'Climb on the wagon, throw yer panties overboard' in 'Highwater'?.....that LA Times interview was great, BTW...........too bad he didn't like The '74 Tour.......but hey! he was great at TLW with The Band two years later.........In fact, I would say that TLW was where Dylan and The Band reached their true potential.....that and 'Planet Waves'.........

Posted on Sun Sep 16 13:10:58 CEST 2001 from tayhou-223-229.ev1.net (207.218.223.229)

Laura Holt Lorfing

Scrolling through this GB I realize that so many of us have been conversing by way of email for such a long time. Donna.. I can't wait to see you some time in PA! Doug and Michele..thanks for checking in. Rollie..Hug! We all share a common ground and that's the music. I'm so glad that we can all come here and say what's on our minds. After this past week, I can't sleep, I can't eat. I feel horrible. I have this new little baby in my life (Rhett..2 months) and I wonder what's in store for our future. If I thought too much about it I would probably go cazy. What can I say other than the truth.. I'm scared. I'm glad that I can come here and share the way that I feel. Jan..thank you for all your hard work. I know it takes alot to do this. PEACE! :)

Posted on Sun Sep 16 10:26:48 CEST 2001 from spider-ntc-ta062.proxy.aol.com (198.81.16.47)

Jeff

My favorite group of all time...still watch "The Last Waltz" regularly. Unfaithful Servant a very under-rated song (and an allegory for my life). Everyone knows that they're gonna play "The Weight" at my funeral....music has never gotten better than this. Miss you Richard and Rick. Please read Levon's "This Wheel's On Fire". THE BAND...THE BEST.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 10:16:51 CEST 2001 from nas-202-57.rochester.navipath.net (64.20.202.57)

Liz

Lets have a concert......Music for the masses Music for our brothers and sisters and Music for Peace.....call & do it, Play On Keep Listening....Liz

Posted on Sun Sep 16 09:26:07 CEST 2001 from wks-29-184-99.kscable.com (24.29.184.99)

Steve Pelzel

This was really a great page to find of "The Band". One of the BEST EVER BANDS!

Posted on Sun Sep 16 08:59:30 CEST 2001 from dialin-222.poughkeepsie.bestweb.net (216.179.14.56)

Gene

"There is no feeling, except the extremes of fear and grief, that does not find relief in music." -George Eliot-

Posted on Sun Sep 16 08:30:31 CEST 2001 from 1cust80.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.57.80)

Crabgrass

Sorry, that Memorial will be held on Sunday the 23rd. Apologies to you Stones fans.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 08:14:51 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp262313.sympatico.ca (64.230.34.236)

brown eyed girl

MUSIC

"Music touches the deepest part of my soul.
And that's just what you have given me.
What is life without music?
Without music I can't survive.
It helps me.
It soothes my aching heart.
It helps me reminisce the good times I had with you.
But most of all it gives me spark to the light.
It helps me going in this dark world."

I listen to music every single day........no matter what is happening in my life or in the world.......I wouldn't have it any other way.......This week in particular I have been listening to Bob Marley and Van Morrison because they sing from their heart and soul........These artists are like family to me..................

I thought I had discovered Dylan singing "Brown Eyed Girl" this week...........surprise!........instead "Desolation Row" was sung in Italian by Fabrizio De Andre Francesco De..........

Also I was thinking how I was listening to a lot of Ornette Coleman lately and the two songs that resonated the most for me have even more meaning this week........."Focus On Sanity" and "Tomorrow Is The Question"...........

Posted on Sun Sep 16 07:55:50 CEST 2001 from 1cust80.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.57.80)

Crabgrass

I'm hoping the Stones will turn up at tomorrow's Central Park Memorial for the 5,000 plus dead still trapped in the WTC rubble, crank up their amps, and get the expected one million mourners shakin' their booties to "Honky Tonk Women" and "Brown Sugar."

Posted on Sun Sep 16 07:34:16 CEST 2001 from csiewert.student.princeton.edu (140.180.130.73)

Cam

Just listened to Big Pink and as always the boys blow me away...music like that is what gives me a release from reality...

In a bad parody (sort of) of a popular commercial campaign: My anti-drug: The Band.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 07:20:58 CEST 2001 from mplsdslgw10poolb176.mpls.uswest.net (63.228.41.176)

P.S. 2001

I think bombing Afghanistan is the worst thing we could do. this is what they want. of course its horrible they killed 6000 some innocent people. why should we be brought down to their level?

Posted on Sun Sep 16 05:42:38 CEST 2001 from spider-wo071.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.51)

JTULL FAN

RELEASE! Although it seemed inconvenient at the time, the transformer in our neighborhood blew at 11:45 this morning and it just was repaired by Virginia power, some 12 hours later. No t.v., depressing news, destruction, stock photos of terrorists, etc. in my home today. So my wife and I took a drive, opened the copy of Love and Theft we bought earlier but never played, and just took a rest from this shitty week. Great, great album. Glad nothing terrible happened while the tube was off, although no one was rescued either. Seems many lyrics of songs have been quoted this week, and I think I finally found one I feel fits: Dylan's Slow Train Coming. Gonna crank it up tomorrow. Glad to see we are getting back to music. I liked Lil's post earlier today. This may be a LONG conflict with high's and low's, including further terrorists attacks before it is over. We will need stress relievers such as music. Although I wasn't born yet, I am sure Pearl Harbor made the country seem like a huge funeral, but people got on with their lives even while war waged for almost 4 more years; movies were made, bands played, ballgames played. I guess the lyrics of Turn, Turn, Turn, would also be fitting. Goodnight.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 04:44:38 CEST 2001 from spider-wp074.proxy.aol.com (205.188.201.209)

Brien Sz

As a diversion to all the talk at dinners and functions and TV about the recent horror, my wife and I went to the movies. We saw 'The Others' - if you are looking for a good ol fashion scary/creepy movie, this is it. A little slow in the begining but a solid film in all, 3 stars!

Posted on Sun Sep 16 03:30:07 CEST 2001 from spider-wl061.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.46)

Amanda

Here is the link to the LA Times interview with Bob Dylan...Hi refered to this in his last post.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 01:24:40 CEST 2001 from 1cust65.tnt9.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.10.13.65)

Hi

Hank I think it's only the vocal a little on a couple of the old time sounding tunes....there is a connection though in that Leon was mentioned positively in a couple of Dylan interviews before his first record was out....I checked him out and rather enjoyed him..now that I think of it he was very funny and L&T's got that too,,,,Did anyone read the LA Times interview where Dylan mentions the "74 tour with the Band as not his best hour...I have to agree....sold that "Flood" record from it years ago....

Posted on Sun Sep 16 01:15:07 CEST 2001 from cr514777-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com (24.114.57.20)

An Observer

Let’s cut to the chase. I think that there is a vast, fundamentalist, terror organization out there. They are Muslim, but they distort the teachings of Islam to justify their actions and have nothing to do with the millions of Muslims world wide who share our abhorrence of their actions. What they want is to turn the world back about 1,000 years to a time when Islam was supreme. They are clever, well financed and likely receive assistance from radical rogue states such as Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran. They will try and scare us with terror, but their real goal is to grind western civilization into submission through the use of force. They don’t have the capacity to use nuclear, biological or chemical weapons yet, but within a very short period of time in the scheme of things, they will. Right now, thousands have died. Next time, millions may die. Yet some people pray for peace, caution against overreaction and trot out slogans and songs that were right for the sixties, but totally inappropriate to this situation. This is our last chance to stop them before they truly destroy us and our way of life. This is the most serious threat since World War II - more serious then the cold war, because the Soviets didn’t want to be destroyed any more than we did. It’s time to wake up. No one wants war, no one wants to kill anyone, but this is life or death, and if enough people don’t come to that realization, it will be death.

Posted on Sun Sep 16 01:07:36 CEST 2001 from spider-ta053.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.68)

Dave Z

9-1=8 as in on Garth's T-Shirt... and we all know Garth killed the fly... thus causing last year's great NY snowstorm... or was it that whirling version of Chest Fever?... Anyway, I'd settle for a Garth, Dylan, Robbie and Levon reunion during the course of the Bauls music tour... In summary, Garth killed the fly that ended the fued... and the BBs burned down the barn in Mpls thus sending scores of barflys out to the streets... I myself am awaiting delivery of the Blind Faith CD reissue... GaNite...

Posted on Sun Sep 16 00:50:19 CEST 2001 from atmax-3-30.enter.net (207.16.153.132)

Little Brøther

John the Baptist, after torturing a thief
Looked up at his hero, the Commander-in-Chief
Saying, "Tell me, great hero, but please make it brief--
Is there a hole for me to get sick in?"

The Commander-in-Chief answers him while chasing a fly
Saying, "Death to all those who would whimper and cry!"
And dropping a barbell, he points to the sky
Saying, "The sun is not YELLOW, it's CHICKEN!"

Mama's in the factory, she ain't got no shoes
Daddy's in the alley, he's lookin' for food.
I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues...

-- Bob Dylan, "Tombstone Blues"

That verse, that song, has been rattling around my head ever since one of its "keywords" appeared in this GB, which is as close as I'll come to dignifying the post with notice.

Some of us are very focused on catching a fly, even if we spill all the buttermilk in the process... Jim crack corn, I don't care... Didn't some Greek say, "Make me a long enough swatter, and I will swat the world?"... Robbie caught a fly in TLW... I wish HE were Commander-in-Chief, he'd soon set things to rights... that only happens in the movies, though, you can run them backwards like they do in "Slaughterhouse Five"... but then wouldn't the fly escape again, and finally turn into an egg that you can't break an omelet without making?

Whoops, I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues and it just might be Hank's, thus the dottiness of it all. Or the dottiness may be because I'm losing my mind; if so, I'm in the right place for it.

I've been listening to weirdly disconnected things like the Broadway s/t of "Hair"; then I got a powerful thirst for John Lennon, from "Instant Karma" through "Mother" and "Imagine"-- and, yes, "Give Peace A Chance."

I think Dylan should exert all his karmic power to draft Robbie, Garth, and Levon as the core of a band to tour or create a benefit CD recreating "Highway 61"; feel free to pencil in the rest of the band, folks. Fewed, shmewed. John Simon for sure.

Maybe a benefit at Yankee Stadium, then a free encore show in Central Park. All to facilitate the healing process, when we're ready. No flies allowed.

Tommy, while I've been sitting here converting my babble into written form, in the street I heard children laughing-- they all sound the same. This is true, although they might have been in a playground adjoining the far end of this complex.

OK, it's a wrap. I was in the supermarket a couple of hours ago, feeling OK, then when I was in line reaching for my wallet, my hands just started to shake for no reason. I was able to hand over my money and bag some of my stuff but it was touch and go there for a long foolish second. I was in no shape for fly-catching, I'll tell you that. Has anybody else experienced this?

I apologize for feeling a little delirious and strung out right now, but there are worse ways to feel...

Posted on Sun Sep 16 00:31:07 CEST 2001 from spider-wa023.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.28)

Amanda

Hank: You are so right....Love And Theft ROCKS! I am not sure about the Leon Redbone vibe....I only know he has a country rock style and is supposed to play a children's show on PBS, but now I am intrigued! Love And Theft really sheds light on the fact that Bob Dylan has some real issues with women. Sometimes I think he knows us so well and other times I think we are a total mystery to him!

Posted on Sat Sep 15 23:40:40 CEST 2001 from spider-wl014.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.24)

Tommy again

On a more positive note...A neighbor is having a party in their yard next door for their little daughter.The kids are having fun,laughing it up and generally making alotta kid noise.Good for them.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 23:38:21 CEST 2001 from spider-wl014.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.24)

Tommy

Hello again friends...

Hank,I actually started reading CATCH-22 about a week ago,right after I finished SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE.What's with anti-war books with numbers in their titles?haha

I heard today that most US airlines plan to be bankrupt by December.Hmmmm....

It also turns out that a girl I know's brothet, a fireman,is missing .I guess he was part of the initial rush of rescue NYFD guys that the building collapsed on...No good.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 23:08:59 CEST 2001 from spider-wl044.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.39)

ronnie

close your eyes. hang down your head. let the fog roll away. let it roll away.

open up your arms, and feel the good. it's a comin', a brand new day.

lord have mercy.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 22:49:14 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.208.69.8.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.69.8)

Pat Brennan

For you numerology nuts out there, 9+1+1=11, but 9+11=20. Wow.

Hank, you are free to consider this a vast economic conspiracy. Of course, if you were Afghanastan and questioned the status quo like that, they would parade you into the sports stadium that the UN built for them and execute you. Luckily for all of us, you live in Ireland where they let all their people speak in public.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: characterizing the bombers as stupid tremendously underestimates their convictions. And I doubt that the airline companies think this whole thing will produce some economic boom. Losing 100 million a day is a bit difficult to deal with.

I would obviously add my tiny voice to those here who think this subject is germane to this GB. No matter where we stand on these issues, we are a group of people united by our love of the Band, and we have become quite used to discussing a whole range of topics amongst ourselves. So some get pissed off. Others cry. Some quote song lyrics and others pray. It's called community, and note that Jan was one of the first to post, and emotionally at that.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 22:33:14 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-165.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.165)

Peter Viney

One for the archives. Absolutely Fabulous, new 2001 series, episode 3, gave us yet another version of 'This Wheel's on Fire' on the play-out credits. This time it's Julie Tippett (neeJulie Driscoll) with Adrian Edmonson (Jennifer Saunder's husband) as usual, but with lead vocal by Hermione Demoriane in a French accent (befitting the Paris setting). Hopefully a bit more for Rick's family.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 21:02:21 CEST 2001 from dialup-356.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.100)

Hank

T'was explained to me today how the 'New War' will boost The Euro........So, there ya go, if that turns out to be true, already The Euro dollar and The US Dollar (40 Billion of 'em) are rockin' and rollin'....

'Meet The New War....Same As The Old War'!!!!!!!!!!!! (insert your own Ferocious Power Chords)

The People of NYC and DC......only Pawns in Their Game

The Soon to Be Decimated People of Afghanistan.......only Pawns in Their Game

The Israelis and The Palestinians.....only Pawns in Their Game

President Bush&Bin Laden.........only Pawns in Their Game

The Hijackers.........only Pawns in Their Game

The Pilots and The Passengers.........only Pawns in Their Game

The Hijackers are, of course, the Very Worst Kind of Pawns......plain stooooooopid.........

The Pilots and The Passengers.......The Most Innocent Pawns........

.......and TWC and The Pentagon?.........Considered Expendable Pawn Houses.............

But Even The Pawn Must Hold a Grudge..........

I hope these horrible events are not an internal thing run by folks who are far worse and invisible than Timothy McVeigh and his ilk..... Interesting that Bin Laden didn't attack India or China, ain't it? He has been quoted as saying The USA and India were their main enemies.....The Hindu/Muslim Thang is quite a 'feud'....as bloody and as protracted as The Judeo-Christian/Muslim thang....I guess he wouldn't dare and that if he even THOUGHT of planning it they woulda put arsenic in his Taliban Cornflakes LONG ago........interesting that this whole atrocity was planned and executed completely in The USA..........You can't really do much wandering around The Mountains of Afghanistan, can you? (Well, apparently, there's really great weed grown there.......sorted).......And After All, The CIA TRAINED the dude to KICK Russian Ass, right? I'm surprised The Russian Mafia, who've built up quite a reputation for being a pretty decent Mafia, haven't used this as an excuse to go down there to Afghanistan, pick up Bin Laden and his buddies, quietly deliver them to The Various Mafia who run NYC and have them all sleep with the fishes in The East River.....Now THERE's an idea your REVENGE and RETALIATION........

HighWater Rising......Things Are Breaking Up Out There!!!

A Young Man Serves his Country and an Old Man Guards The Home.......Young Men sreve their country by joining an armies of with other young men .......Maybe The Draft IS a good thing......keeping young men trained to fight for a couple of years ready to Fight and Defend ....or should that be Attack and Destroy?.....or should that be Attack and Destroy to Fight and Defend?.......The Begining of The End of The End of The Begining of The Begining of The End of the Begining.............????? I read once that people who join The US Armed Forces are recommended BY The Armed Forces to read 'Catch 22' by Joseph Heller........I hope so........

Anyone hear Norman Mailers take on all this?.....no?...me neither........'twould be interesting.......

No more anti-globalisation riots, I guess....what'cha reckon?

No one can accuse me of not giving this post a 'Band/Muisc' slant.....I even used the word 'feud'... and I didn't ONCE mention 'Give Peace a Chance' or All you Need is Love' or 'Imagine'......Christ! Lennon shoulda known better...Lennon shoulda known it ain't easy.........

But Seriously, Folks.....anyone pick up on the Leon Redbone vibe offa 'Love and Theft'?............

Posted on Sat Sep 15 21:02:59 CEST 2001 from spider-we041.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.36)

calvin

I'm a bass player myself Sam, will that work?

Posted on Sat Sep 15 20:37:06 CEST 2001 from spider-ta024.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.54)

Bayoun Sam

Can you imagine the songs that Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, John Fogerty, Paul Simon, and Billy Joel are writing right now?

Posted on Sat Sep 15 20:32:54 CEST 2001 from spider-ta024.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.54)

Bayou Sam

We'll get back to The Band, and music in genral. Relax. This is kind of a nasty thing we're going through now to say the least. Life has been altered for awhile. I went to mail some package at the post office again today and they wanted to see my I.D. before taking them. This is life in the New York Metropolitan area now. I found it incredible that people in here were actually getting bothered by the fact that so many posts are talking about this event and it's ramifications. I thought maybe it was because they are further away than I am and it's not in their face as much. But I see posts from people like Peter V. who is an ocean away and wasn't in the mood to listen to music. I guess people are just different - which is good.

After a couple of days, I needed a good rock song and when I turned on my local rock radio stations, they were focusing on the attack. It was good though. They played "God Bless America" by Ray Charles, and "What A Wonderful World" by Louis Armstrong. These are songs you normally would not hear on these stations. There is an all-sports talk station here in N.Y. that has turned to talking about the attack. Nobody seems to mind. It's therapy. The outpouring of support, and donations around here is incredible.

Music does heal. I've made this corny statement in here before, but music is my drug. I beleive that I get just as much from listening to Brown Sugar at high volume, as anyone can get from snorting coke. I've never tried coke, so I can't say for sure. But those of you who are asking Jan to shut down the site (the "new" stupidest thing I've ever seen posted)until we're ready to talk about music have to chill out and re-think your thinking (hey that sounded Dylan-ish).

I'm trying. The other day I went up to the attic and put on some loud music and beat my set of Ludwigs for about a half-hour. I felt good. But, on Thursday I came downstairs to leave for work and I smelled a burning smell in the ;living room. I found out later that it was because the wind shifted and I was smelling the smoke from the Trade Center. People on Long Island were calling their fire houses because they thought it was a local fire.

I crossed the Whitestone Bridge again yesterday. I looked at the city. I don't know how many years it will take to look at that scene and get over it. Probably never.

I think I'll play my drums today. I think you should all start playing drums.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 20:17:26 CEST 2001 from sdn-ar-002ilurbap320.dialsprint.net (158.252.112.226)

Susan

Like everyone else I'm still in shock. Here in downstate Illinois we are somewhat insulated, unless we know someone directly involved. I don't. The sounds I heard on the radio on Tuesday, and the images from tv that I saw later personalized everything as I saw individual faces and heard voices in the midst of such horror. There's little I can do, so I gave money to the Red Cross and to the bucket in the gyros shop where I eat lunch that was collecting for the families of firefighters and police.

We all deal with the anxiety and horror in out own ways. My office mate, who last week was playing Joe Ely cds for me in our impromptu afternoon music times, seems to feel it is his responsibility to track down Osama bin Laden on the web. A woman in the outer office sees the face of the devil in the smoke in one of the pictures printed in our local paper. I seem to need fairly mindless repetitive activity. At work I took on a project I would normally dodge involving checking data base records for accuracy. At home I've taken to copy typing, working on various Band articles and reviews I have. I'll send them to Jan later for the site.

I'm avoiding the political news for the most part, but am compelled to read all the profiles of people who died that the New York Times and the Chicago Tribune print. Attention must be paid.

But I have to stay calm and functional, working my way back to a semblence of normal life. On Thursday my husband and I turned off the tv and went for an evening walk along our neighborhood drainage system. We say a juvenile blue heron in the dusk, blending in so well we could scarcely make it out. I've been making a count of the variety of butterflies that visit the flowerbed under my kitchen window. I'm not usually much of a nature girl, but these things seem to help now.

As for music, it's always a help in times of stress, but now I don't want songs. I need instrumental music, music that clears my head and expresses my sorrow and fear and anger but lets it somehow mutate to a state of calm or numbnes - this is poorly expressed, but Garth's cd is one that I've been listening to when I need to quiet my mind. What I really want is the music that was used in a tv commercial a few years back, where a woman came home from work , clearly stressed, and collapsed on the couch to some wonderful blues guitar. I don't know what the music was, but that's what I need. Or a whole cd of music like Clapton's guitar solo in Holy Mother. I did listen to Tears of Rage on Thursday; the words don't exactly fit but the sound is right - worlds of pain.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 19:38:55 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-118-126.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.118.126)

BWNWITennessee

Have you heard that Cuba is offering the U.S. the use of its airbases if needed? Amazing. Hopefully this spirit of cooperation will continue for awhile once this is all over with.

Why the hell does Sherry never appear on this Guestbook except to insult any GBer whose ideology differs from her own, only to retreat shortly thereafter back to the nether regions from whence she came once the topic turns from politics and religion? I don't think I've once seen her mention The Band, or music in general.

(I realize this post is a bit incongruous.)

Posted on Sat Sep 15 19:26:44 CEST 2001 from bob14.revealed.net (208.16.227.17)

Mike

I agree with Mr. Viney and Tommy...We should get back to talking about music. Moving forward does help to heal. We ought not foroget about what happened. I've read a bit og argumentive posts in here. Stupid and pointless! Crabby likes to "talk" about religion a bit. Where's the point in that?! Music hasthe power to heal. Didn't Garth make that point in The Last Waltz?! So, let's ease back into the music a bit. It'll help. Enough of this talk about bombing and retaliation. It's only going to bet better before it gets worse. So, try to move forward slowly and carefully. I think it would be a bit helpful. Don't you?! Peace

Mike

Posted on Sat Sep 15 19:21:39 CEST 2001 from spider-tk052.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.197)

Amanda

I Believe In You

By Bob Dylan

They ask me how I feel And if my love is real And how I know I'll make it through. And they, they look at me and frown, They'd like to drive me from this town, They don't want me around 'Cause I believe in you.

They show me to the door, They say don't come back no more 'Cause I don't be like they'd like me to, And I walk out on my own A thousand miles from home But I don't feel alone 'Cause I believe in you.

I believe in you even through the tears and the laughter, I believe in you even though we be apart. I believe in you even on the morning after. Oh, when the dawn is nearing Oh, when the night is disappearing Oh, this feeling is still here in my heart.

Don't let me drift too far, Keep me where you are Where I will always be renewed. And that which you've given me today Is worth more than I could pay And no matter what they say I believe in you.

I believe in you when winter turn to summer, I believe in you when white turn to black, I believe in you even though I be outnumbered. Oh, though the earth may shake me Oh, though my friends forsake me Oh, even that couldn't make me go back.

Don't let me change my heart, Keep me set apart From all the plans they do pursue. And I, I don't mind the pain Don't mind the driving rain I know I will sustain 'Cause I believe in you.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 19:22:24 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

Heard George W's Radio address at 10 am EST. He told people to be patient as the United States gets ready for a long battle. He indicated that this would not be a short confrontation and that it would not be fought in the traditional manner. Well here we go. It's going to be a rough ride for everyone. I was expecting to take a flight in December. Don't think I'll do it. A woman at work got married today and cancelled her entire Mediterranean honeymoon. She did it so late she and her husband still have to pay for it; but they were scared to go.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 18:27:36 CEST 2001 from spider-wn072.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.182)

Sherry

Mr. Pike - please explain to me how Clinton "dealt" with the embassy bombings - oh yeah I forgot, aspirin factory on the day of the Lewinski testimony.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 18:25:16 CEST 2001 from spider-wn072.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.182)

Sherry

Mr. Pike - please explain to me exactly how Clinton "dealt" with the embassy bombings, I must have missed that - oh yes I forgot, aspirin factory on the day of the Lewinski testimony.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 18:08:19 CEST 2001 from cache-dk03.proxy.aol.com (205.188.209.7)

Amanda

Tropical storm Gabrielle pelted us here in the Lowcountry last night. I awoke to thunder and couldn't help but think it might be something else. Paranoia did not give me much rest last night.Thankfully, they say the storm is heading further out to sea and won't hit N.Y.

"As long as the human species thrives on the planet, music, in some living form will accompany and sustain it and give it expressive meaning." - Aaron Copland

Posted on Sat Sep 15 17:28:07 CEST 2001 from spider-tm052.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.67)

Ben Pike

Brain SZ, when Clinton was dealing the embassey bombings, weirdo religious types were weakening the powers of the Presidency in a vengful "scandel" that clearly weakend our country in an attempt to further their political gains. The sleazy, evermore tabloid press were all too happy to make a buck helping them do it. These same people, this time last week, were still screaming at us to share(buy) their obsession over Gary Condit. One could go on about this endlessly, and there should be a time to do so. But for now, it should sufice to note that these are the people who are "pretty dirty."

Posted on Sat Sep 15 16:57:24 CEST 2001 from spider-wi014.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.24)

Joe

Does anybody think that the freedoms we have attained and retain in this country were obtained by sitting at a Peace Table??,,,,,Maybe they eventually were....but not before we dealt out a good ole' fashioned butt whuppin' (with the exception of the Cuban Missle Crisis). Hate to see it come to that...but we have no choice,,,IMHO. Generation after generation, and conflict after conflict we the people of the U.S. have had to risk and give our lives to keep these freedoms. It seems to be the price of freedom. Offer Afghanistan and any others harboring terroist an ultimatum. If they don't except, we got to do what we got to do.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 16:29:43 CEST 2001 from 1cust104.tnt2.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.108.104)

Hi

I find it interesting how one person will post an opinion and then someone else will take something in it out of context or even distort the whole meaning of it....and also even some of the more interesting and respected posters will throw in a dig at someone .......maybe this would be an interesting topic of discussion itself sometime.....

Posted on Sat Sep 15 16:18:59 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp51.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.51)

Diamond Lil

JTull Fan: Your sentiment of there being time for music later, after rescue workers are finished risking their lives searching for survivors..is a very nice one. And as somebody who has had someone very close to me down in NYC helping with rescue efforts for 3 days and nights now, I'd like to tell you that music is being used there to help calm and soothe as well. A local radio station ( I don;t know which one) is playing commercial free music at the WTC site over loud speakers, and street musicians are virtually at every street corner. It takes nothing away from the valiant and heroic efforts of those frantically searching for survivors. In fact, from what I've been told in phone conversations..it seems to be helping.. alot.
I'm glad btw, that your wife's office was spared from this horrific act of violence.
Thanks.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 16:10:17 CEST 2001 from spider-tr014.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.179)

Brien Sz

I think it's a bit silly to think this tragedy was done as an anti-Bush ploy. For one, it is estimated this had to take at minimum 18 months. So maybe it was really done as an anti-Clinton thing - he was pretty dirty.., This is Anti-American this act. The President to these people is just another symbol of evil.

Crabgrass is right. As much as i may loath his opinions, this is an important time for us to share thoughts. It is the only way we can learn about each other and maybe find a WHY to this mess.

We went to church yesterday. And last night we saw the streets and highways lined with people and candles and waving the American Flag. We will be stronger - We cannot be defeated!

Posted on Sat Sep 15 14:45:18 CEST 2001 from spider-wk084.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.189)

JTULL FAN

The news last night reported that the FBI identified the Federal Reserve Banks in Atlanta and Richmond as having been on the target list. My wifes office looks out upon the Richmond branch....There will be a time to go back to music. I will be ready once rescue workers are no longer risking their lives to find survivors. Afghanistan is threatening any nation that aids the U.S. On another note, in the spirit of some posts to understand the enemy, I looked up 'Taliban' on a search engine and got into some Taliban and 'Jihad' webrings. This was eye-opening (all though I had done it as well when the Taliban senselessly destroyed those 2,ooo yr old statues of Buddha a few months back)I recommend all you guys try this, especially those who care about women's issues. It will give you much more to consider today.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 14:40:33 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp51.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.51)

Diamond Lil

Brown-Eyed Girl: Thanks for your heartwarming post. We too attended a rather impromtu candlelight vigil last night, where the only sounds heard were those of music and Air Force jets flying overhead. An eerie combination. But the music soothed and calmed, and I realized that..for me.. music is a necessary thing in the attempt to try and start the long process of healing. I've decided to turn off my tvs and radios here (which have been on non-stop since Tuesday) between noon and 3pm today..and listen instead to some of my favorite music. I hope all of you will join me. A psychological break from the reality that grips us all is very much needed now. It's been mentioned here that the talk of music is disrespectful at this time, but if it helps to soothe your heart, and soul, and mind, and spirit..if even for a little while.. turn it on and allow yourselves to feel a bit better.

The first tune I'm going to play at noon is "Book Faded Brown". Why? I don't really know..except that it's been going through my head here and I somehow think it'll make me feel better to hear it again.

Wishing everyone here a day which, if only for a little while, sadness and anger are replaced with music instead.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 11:06:48 CEST 2001 from 203-79-98-185.tnt13.paradise.net.nz (203.79.98.185)

ajr

I finally saw Song Catcher tonight. I think most people here would probably enjoy the music (Taj Mahal, Iris De Ment, Emmy Lou) though the story was a little improbable. I have a feeling that Coal Miners daughter was a more accurate representation of rural poverty than the more picturesque picture Song Catcher presented.

My best wishes to all in these sad and troubling times.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 09:37:08 CEST 2001 from 2cust108.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.55.236)

Crabgrass

The most offensive posts I've read here recently are the ones clamoring for getting back to discussing The Band or calling for the website to be temporarily shut down because of the lack of musical discussion.

The recent turn of events has overwhelming ramifications for the entire planet. It's a time to think, discuss, exchange ideas, and reflect upon some very serious issues. I've seen as much bickering, threats, and name calling in this Guestbook over matters concerning Robbie and Levon as I've seen over political, religious, or any other issue I can think of and I for one value being able to express my opinions and listen to what other posters feel about issues beyond music whether I agree with them or not since we do afterall pretty much share a love for much of the same music which makes want to further explore the people here. I don't think I'd ever want to live in place where everyone was so one dimensional that they had no opinions beyond music.

First Nostradamus, now Numerology - who's next Jean Dixon, the Amazing Kreskin, or the Raelians?

Also, am glad to hear that some children are getting exposed to philosophy and logic and actually thinking - usually they're brainwashed with religious fantasy before they ever get a chance to think. I think reality is a better teacher. Encouraging.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 08:44:29 CEST 2001 from dialin-1-120.gw3-bl.trmd.net (212.5.25.120)

birgit

i forward this because i find this says a lot of the situation we are ALL in and i am happy that an american said that. check out his films. all the best B. Subject: Michael Moore Subject: Death, Downtown Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 06:23:17 -0400 Death, Downtown Dear friends, I was supposed to fly today on the 4:30 PM American Airlines flight from LAX to JFK. But tonight I find myself stuck in L.A. with an incredible range of emotions over what has happened on the island where I work and live in New York City. My wife and I spent the first hours of the day -- after being awakened by phone calls from our parents at 6:40am PT -- trying to contact our daughter at school in New York and our friend JoAnn who works near the World Trade Center. I called JoAnn at her office. As someone picked up, the first tower imploded, and the person answering the phone screamed and ran out, leaving me no clue as to whether or not she or JoAnn would live. It was a sick, horrible, frightening day. On December 27, 1985 I found myself caught in the middle of a terrorist incident at the Vienna airport -- which left 30 people dead, both there and at the Rome airport. (The machine-gunning of passengers in each city was timed to occur at the same moment.) I do not feel like discussing that event tonight because it still brings up too much despair and confusion as to how and why I got to live… a fluke, a mistake, a few feet on the tarmac, and I am still here, there but for the grace of… Safe. Secure. I’m an American, living in America. I like my illusions. I walk through a metal detector, I put my carry-ons through an x-ray machine, and I know all will be well. Here’s a short list of my experiences lately with airport security: At the Newark Airport, the plane is late at boarding everyone. The counter can’t find my seat. So I am told to just “go ahead and get on” -- without a ticket! At Detroit Metro Airport, I don’t want to put the lunch I just bought at the deli through the x-ray machine so, as I pass through the metal detector, I hand the sack to the guard through the space between the detector and the x-ray machine. I tell him “It’s just a sandwich.” He believes me and doesn’t bother to check. The sack has gone through neither security device. At LaGuardia in New York, I check a piece of luggage, but decide to catch a later plane. The first plane leaves without me, but with my bag -- no one knowing what is in it. Back in Detroit, I take my time getting off the commuter plane. By the time I have come down its stairs, the bus that takes the passengers to the terminal has left -- without me. I am alone on the tarmac, free to wander wherever I want. So I do. Eventually, I flag down a pick-up truck and an airplane mechanic gives me a ride the rest of the way to the terminal. I have brought knives, razors; and once, my traveling companion brought a hammer and chisel. No one stopped us. Of course, I have gotten away with all of this because the airlines consider my safety SO important, they pay rent-a-cops $5.75 an hour to make sure the bad guys don’t get on my plane. That is what my life is worth -- less than the cost of an oil change. Too harsh, you say? Well, chew on this: a first-year pilot on American Eagle (the commuter arm of American Airlines) receives around $15,000 a year in annual pay. That’s right -- $15,000 for the person who has your life in his hands. Until recently, Continental Express paid a little over $13,000 a year. There was one guy, an American Eagle pilot, who had four kids so he went down to the welfare office and applied for food stamps -- and he was eligible! Someone on welfare is flying my plane? Is this for real? Yes, it is. So spare me the talk about all the precautions the airlines and the FAA is taking. They, like all businesses, are concerned about one thing -- the bottom line and the profit margin. Four teams of 3-5 people were all able to penetrate airport security on the same morning at 3 different airports and pull off this heinous act? My only response is -- that’s all? Well, the pundits are in full diarrhea mode, gushing on about the “terrorist threat” and today’s scariest dude on planet earth -- Osama bin Laden. Hey, who knows, maybe he did it. But, something just doesn’t add up. Am I being asked to believe that this guy who sleeps in a tent in a desert has been training pilots to fly our most modern, sophisticated jumbo jets with such pinpoint accuracy that they are able to hit these three targets without anyone wondering why these planes were so far off path? Or am I being asked to believe that there were four religious/political fanatics who JUST HAPPENED to be skilled airline pilots who JUST HAPPENED to want to kill themselves today? Maybe you can find one jumbo jet pilot willing to die for the cause -- but FOUR? Ok, maybe you can -- I don’t know. What I do know is that all day long I have heard everything about this bin Laden guy except this one fact -- WE created the monster kown as Osama bin Laden! Where did he go to terrorist school? At the CIA! Don’t take my word for it -- I saw a piece on MSNBC last year that laid it all out. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, the CIA trained him and his buddies in how to commits acts of terrorism against the Soviet forces. It worked! The Soviets turned and ran. Bin Laden was grateful for what we taught him and thought it might be fun to use those same techniques against us. We abhor terrorism -- unless we’re the ones doing the terrorizing. We paid and trained and armed a group of terrorists in Nicaragua in the 1980s who killed over 30,000 civilians. That was OUR work. You and me. Thirty thousand murdered civilians and who the hell even remembers! We fund a lot of oppressive regimes that have killed a lot of innocent people, and we never let the human suffering THAT causes to interrupt our day one single bit. We have orphaned so many children, tens of thousands around the world, with our taxpayer-funded terrorism (in Chile, in Vietnam, in Gaza, in Salvador) that I suppose we shouldn’t be too surprised when those orphans grow up and are a little whacked in the head from the horror we have helped cause. Yet, our recent domestic terrorism bombings have not been conducted by a guy from the desert but rather by our own citizens: a couple of ex-military guys who hated the federal government. From the first minutes of today’s events, I never heard that possibility suggested. Why is that? Maybe it’s because the A-rabs are much better foils. A key ingredient in getting Americans whipped into a frenzy against a new enemy is the all-important race card. It’s much easier to get us to hate when the object of our hatred doesn’t look like us. Congressmen and Senators spent the day calling for more money for the military; one Senator on CNN even said he didn’t want to hear any more talk about more money for education or health care -- we should have only one priority: our self-defense. Will we ever get to the point that we realize we will be more secure when the rest of the world isn’t living in poverty so we can have nice running shoes? In just 8 months, Bush gets the whole world back to hating us again. He withdraws from the Kyoto agreement, walks us out of the Durban conference on racism, insists on restarting the arms race -- you name it, and Baby Bush has blown it all. The Senators and Congressmen tonight broke out in a spontaneous version of “God Bless America.” They’re not a bad group of singers! Yes, God, please do bless us. Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes’ destination of California -- these were places that voted AGAINST Bush! Why kill them? Why kill anyone? Such insanity… Let’s mourn, let’s grieve, and when it’s appropriate let’s examine our contribution to the unsafe world we live in. It doesn’t have to be like this… Yours, Michael Moore

Posted on Sat Sep 15 08:35:21 CEST 2001 from spider-wl022.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.27)

Tommy

Hey gang,,,I keep getting these emails from friends about these silly Nostradamus predictions.Come on now...whattaya buncha crap!!!Howard Stern went through a Nostradamus prediction book on the air the other morning and found that these "new" predictions everyone's reading into now DON'T EVEN EXIST!!!And the ones that might BE the ones I'm getting emails about are so re-worded that any interpretation can be tacked on!NONSENSE!!!!-It also talks about Jesus coming back.What?????What am I reading??It didn't mention Santa Claus though.

Get with it gang.If it was up to Nostradamus , we shoulda been dead already..a few times(ie;Desert Storm,New Years Eve 1999,etc.)!

This is the begining...I'm sure (and it's horrible to say OR think) that things are gonna get worse before they get better.But I dont think an ancient "prophet" has anything to do with it.Bah!

And as far as talking about music here in the GB,,,without sounding insensitive,life goes on.I figure , you're not gonna get any news about this world event from ME...I'm not in the FBI or NATO or anything.I've been glued to the TV for almost four days now....what else can I learn, or NOT learn, by talking about music here in the GB.I don't think Peter or I are acting in poor taste.If we dont TRY and return to a sembalance of normal life, the terrorists win, right?That's why their terrorists!!!Anyway, I hope everybody out there is OK.All the best, friends.

~Tommy

Posted on Sat Sep 15 08:14:58 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Like most of us, the last few days I've watched the events unfolding on my television with a mix of horror for what has occurred, and dread for what happens next. Initially, I was somewhat conflicted. My anger and sadness at this tragedy left me questioning my strong feelings against violence in all of its forms, regardless of supposed justification.

I wondered, if not a military action, then what will stop this? And then I thought - will a military action stop this? Terrorism is the last act of desperate people. There's a sense in this country that these terrorists performed their acts out of some sort of jealousy, or an active dislike for some high ideal that the US stands for.

In truth, these people perpetrated these monstrous, unthinkable acts because somewhere along they way, they lost hope, lost faith, in it's place grew hatred, anger and violence. I once read that a man without hope is the most dangerous man of all - he is capable of anything. I like to think that as a country, we in the US have not lost our hope. That this hatred and anger that grips us will not lead us to tear ourselves, and the rest of the world, apart.

So I'm left asking, what will this War bring? Will it bring justice or vengeance? Will it bring hope or fear? Will it bring love or hate? Neil Young is quite right when he sings, "hate is everything you think it is." The biggest export of war is hate. It turns young men (and women)into killers. Homes into targets. Children into corpses.

Wars are successful for what they take away from one's enemy. Their homes, their families, their food, their money, their oil, their power. What then do you take from a people who live with death more than you ever could imagine, who go to bed hungry every night, who have no money, who have no oil, who have no power, who have no hope?

My heart grieves for so many. It is burdened in the grief for the victims, their families, but also for what I think we've lost, and for that part of ourselves I believe we are about to forsake.

My heart grieves for the innocent people here and overseas that will die for this, for how unjust it is, for how futile I believe it all ultimately is, when killing is your only option, when you convince yourself that War is hope.

This isn't a question of what's in our minds, but what's in our hearts. You cannot argue with a heart. Feelings may be disregarded, but they cannot be disagreed with.

And my heart is quite clear and unyielding: War is evil. Hate is evil. Injustice is evil.

To use war to fight evil, to leverage our own hate to fight evil, and to visit injustice on innocents to fight evil makes no sense. It just makes no sense.

War begets war. You kill your enemy, another, bigger enemy rises to take his place. Each war man fights ends with the stakes higher. One evil vanquished, to be replaced by a dozen more. Defeat Hitler, gain nuclear annihilation. Free the slaves, get the gatling gun. Destroy Saddam Hussein's army, get Osama Bin Laden and jets flying into skyscrapers. The cycle never ends.

This is not to say that slavery was right or that Hitler was not despicable. You can justify any single War, especially when you win them. Mankind, however, cannot justify War itself, and at some point, you take your stand for what's in your heart. For what's in your soul.

For me, that means believing, finally, that killing our brothers and sisters will NEVER do anything but draw us deeper and deeper into the darkest part of ourselves, further and further from the beautiful creatures that we are, further and further from the mind of God we all seem to hunger for, even when we don't believe it exists.

If God cannot bless us, then perhaps he can save us. If he cannot save us, then maybe we should think about saving ourselves. And if we can save ourselves...

Bless us all.

-------
Who of these dares speak of God!
Where is he who tells me to kill my brother in His name!
Where is that one who says: 'We have declared war on the enemy.'
For he is a liar and a murderer.
The enemy is war.
It exists in their peace.
It is war to allow the few to starve the many.
It is war to allow the few to blind the many.
But the power of this enemy is not in the few.
Its power is in the many who fear, distrust and hate one another.

-- from "The Memoirs of a Shy Pornographer" by Kenneth Patchen
-------

I'm on vacation next week and won't be around the CPU. Everyone be safe and take care of yourselves. Jonathon Katz, Mitt, Charley Young, and other DC and NYC GB'ers, you've been in my thoughts, and hope all is well with you.

Peace

Matt

Posted on Sat Sep 15 05:48:09 CEST 2001 from spider-wa021.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.26)

Bayou Sam

nice post Dennis.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 03:59:02 CEST 2001 from (24.159.102.250)

Don Pugatch

Not the occasional poster on this web site, but a dedicated reader (safer, and more sane), I just could not hold off, after being able to watch today the total service from the National Catherdral. I confess, I do not remember the name of the religious leader, but her statement meant so much to me, and sorry, have to para phrase, Sometimes one needs an edifice to use as a "container" for ones sorrows. I sometimes feel that this site is such a vessel. Obviously, she was not thinking of this site, nor was I , but after tonights visit to the GB, well, leave it up to you'll.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 03:26:26 CEST 2001 from spider-wj022.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.27)

Ben Pike

Peter V, thanks for the thoughtful answers, allthough you stray a bit from the point I was at least trying to propose. With greater thought and less zeal, might Belson been liberated WITHOUT the bombing of Dresden? Such is the question we yanks are moraly obligated to ask in this dark hour. I must also say, though I may be guilty of a lightweight WWII metophore(they abound this week), when the stakes in our deadly modern era may be that much greater. I noticed world opinion condemed the attrosity(how could it not?) but sounds as if they backed off a lot today, and will continue to, no doubt. Fawell also said God was just giving us Americans our commupance for legalized abortion. So really, if we were being rightfully punished, he's given the peacenick a very good arguement.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 03:23:17 CEST 2001 from cl3017108-b.mdsn1.wi.home.com (65.3.255.9)

Tim(SUNDOG)Corcoran

Found this on an other web site: The eleven The date of the attack: 9/11 - 9 + 1 + 1 = 11,,, September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11,,, After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year. 119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11,,, Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11,,, The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11,,, State of New York - The 11 State added to the Union,,, New York City - 11 Letters,,, Afghanistan - 11 Letters,,, The Pentagon - 11 Letters,,, Ramzi Yousef -11 Letters (convicted of orchestrating the attack on theWTC in 1993),,, Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11,,, Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11... To much time on ones hand.

Posted on Sat Sep 15 03:22:35 CEST 2001 from sqd40.nirai.ne.jp (202.239.129.43)

Fred

Although I've been reading the posts avidly (and keeping up with the latest from various news sources, i.e. TV, the internet) I haven't weighed in with any opinions or comments. I am not an American, I'm Canadian, but I live on Okinawa which has a disproportionate amount of US military bases and personnel; one of the places where I work sends students to the US, Canada, Australia on study programs (either at universities or high schools)---we don't have any students in New York City at the moment, thankfully; my mother lives in Italy, in a city where there is the HQ for NATO's southern European area of operations. So this heinous act of terrorism and cowardice reaches into my little corner of the world, too. My feelings are of anger...anger at the people who carried out the attacks, but also anger at those who are in charge. What I mean to say is, with all the billions of dollars that the US government pours into intelligence why wasn't this tragedy avoided...was everyone too busy revelling in another US political sex scandal?!?!? Also I'm angry at so called patriots who are now calling for the destruction of this country or that group of people...I'm not an expert on religion but I do know that the the teachings of Islam do not condone this sort of thing. IF this was a Christian terrorist organization, would we in the West be going around hunting down Christians?!?!? Go after ONLY the people responsible ...Finally I'm angry at myself for having let my emotions get the better of me and having ranted on too much.

Peter V (and everyone else) go back to listening the music...it's like thumbing your nose at those who wish to bring us down.

Again my apologies for not having been eloquent enough.

On a much lighter note, Ray Charles will be coming here in December to play at a local Resort Hotel (dinner show) however the tickets are between $500-$600 dollars...I've been to that hotel before their found AIN'T that good!!

Posted on Sat Sep 15 02:40:03 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp263779.sympatico.ca (64.230.40.178)

brown eyed girl

As in other countries today......it was the national day of mourning in Canada.........From American born Salome Bey and her two daughters singing "Star Spangled Banner"..........to schools making murals of their feelings and thoughts concerning the innocent who are no longer with us.......

In my school today we had a minute of silence at 11:50 a.m. after our Principal gave a very emotional address over the p.a.........On their own.......my students bowed their heads and many had their hands in prayer form during this minute of silence........Although Feuerbach asked......."Did God create man (people) or did man (people) create God?...........And Karl Marx..........."Religion is the opium of the massess"...........I respect the fact that religion for some helps to console and give hope..........

The students or their parents in my classroom are from the following countries........

Trinidad
Jamaica
St.Lucia
Grenada
Guyana
Greece
Hungary
Albania
Turkey
Mexico
China
Vietnam

Sometimes I am the educator.......and sometimes they are the educators.......

Chop that wood
Carry water
What's the sound of one hand clapping
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

Every second, every minute
It keeps changing to something different
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
It says it's non attachment
Non attachment, non attachment

I'm in the here and now, and I'm meditating
And still I'm suffering but that's my problem
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

Wake up

Enlightenment says the world is nothing
Nothing but a dream, everything's an illusion
And nothing is real

Good or bad baby
You can change it anyway you want
You can rearrange it
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
Chop that wood
And carry water
What's the sound of one hand clapping
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

All around baby, you can see
You're making your own reality, everyday because
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

One more time

Enlightenment, don't know what it is
It's up to you
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
It's up to you everyday
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
IT'S ALWAYS UP TO YOU
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
IT'S UP TO YOU, THE WAY YOU THINK

Enlightenment by VAN MORRISON from Enlightenment

Posted on Sat Sep 15 02:29:13 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tc073.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.183)

jcf

Some posst about music are fine, but talking about what happened on Tuesday is in totaaly fine and appropriate!! It was only three days ago, and is far from being resolved. The people who don't like the posts about what happened on Tuesday, should keep in mind that, regardless of teh fact that there are political web sites, sports web sites, art websites, and whatever, there are some people, myself included, who don't care to go to any other chatroom or guestbbok on the web, even to talk about non- musical interests or concerns.

I have a lot to say abou what happened, but might just relate the following story. It's illustrative of the many people who are actually probably decent who makes excuses for Bin- Laden and other terrorists. He (Bin- Laden) has to be tourtured. He may be willing to die for whatever it he claims motivates him, but is he willing to endure pain. As much pain as the many great Americans who are offering their supporrt and help to the rescue, recovery, and retilation for justice efforts. Just for starters I rented the movie the movie Marathon Man for ideas on how to torture him last night. /n Here's the story last year I was working on an assignment from a temporary employment agency. It was in on eof the World Trade Center towers on the 20th floor. There was someone else who I had just met who was there as a temporary worker to work the assignment with me. We were talking about the bombing at the World Trade Center in 1993. He seemed the "type" that would object, in some way to the following statement: That guy (Bin- Laden) is evil. Well, he did as I thought. I bring it up because despite the obviousness of my assertion, he objected with the same cliched retorts to supposedly unreflective strong statements that invoke universal concepts such as evil (and the notion that there are such things as objectively good and evil acts)...

I believe this is my longest post ever. I apologize for the typos, but this is gravely important. Years ago the same progressive types that visit this guestbook were very pessimistic about the fate of the world in light of the arms race and the cold war. It could get a lot worse, is what I'm saying. It's not hard to imagine how, and I'll spare everyone the pain of spelling out scenarios. May everyone find a way to help, or to change their lives for the better, somehow, because of this. Let's not be relcuctant to discuss what happened here. Let's think carefuuly about it without any clcihed posts of any kind or slant. Let's see those directly responsible die, and let no innocent people (e.g civilians) in ANY PART OF THE WORLD die in the process of killing (and torturing) those responsible....

Posted on Sat Sep 15 00:53:57 CEST 2001 from spider-wl031.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.31)

Tommy

Thanks Peter.

And for the record, I dont mind different styles..I just think Nelly Furturdo is kinda crappy .I dont care what style of music it is...crap is crap.I guess its ok for some light-hearted fluff listening,but then again, who am I to judge...I enjoy a Neil Diamond song now and again.Ya like what ya like, right?Enjoy kids!

Posted on Sat Sep 15 00:14:33 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-105.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.105)

Peter Viney

Howie B worked with Robbie on "Turn the Dark off" in 1997, Robbie contributing vocals to "Take Your Partner By The hand" which later turned up as a bonus track on Redboy. Howie B is a DJ / mixmaster and I suggest that his mainly instrumental style will not appeal to many of those of us unaccustomed to the "rave scene". A lot is the sort of thing you hear pounding out of the always open windows of VW Golf GTI's with wide alloy wheels, multiple fog lamps and bearing three spoilers. I liked the album initially, but must admit I've only played the Robbie track since the first couple of listenings, relegating the album to the 'not played since' category. "Take your partner" acheived mild notoriety as an anthem in gay clubs according to the popular music press.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 23:21:33 CEST 2001 from spider-wb081.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.186)

Calvin

I'm not sure who HowieB is Tommy bit I do know that to this day RR is a bit ticked at the gried he got for producing Neil Diamond, I'm paraphrasing here but the quote I heard went something like, who the hell are these people who tell me I dont have any business working with Neil, as is people who are known for a certain kind of music should always stay with their own and not work with people laying in different styles, that's just stupid. Funny thing is RR still seemed ticked about it all theses years later.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 23:06:38 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-027.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.27)

Peter Viney

Very well said, Dennis. I guess I'm going to try to leave the rights and wrongs and may be's and should do's alone for a while. Wish I could get back to the music, but it just doesn't seem appropriate yet.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 22:58:53 CEST 2001 from spider-wl064.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.49)

Tommy

Just to change the subject matter for a bit(I've been glued to the TV and radio since Tuesday morning...);

Howie B????!!!Isn't that the alcoholic guy from The Backstreet Boys???What's he have to do with Robbie?Like Nelly Furtado isn't crappy enough,,,

Posted on Fri Sep 14 22:26:50 CEST 2001 from pm452-45.dialip.mich.net (204.39.226.151)

twilight

Bravo Dennis. Well said. Hang in there Bob W. Lil - great thoughts.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 22:09:08 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tl063.proxy.aol.com (64.12.107.178)

bob wigo

Bless you Dennis for speaking from a kind heart.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 21:59:45 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tl063.proxy.aol.com (64.12.107.178)

bob wigo

I know it has been a bit heated here the past few days. Obviously this is a time of high emotion. I have been guilty of such and have apologized for allowing my anger to speak.

In many ways it is a tribute to this community that we feel enough comfort here to bare our souls concerning such deeply personal feelings.

I liken this to all of us meeting at the corner pub and sharing an animated discussion. There will be some flare-ups. The subject matter is simply too intense for idle banter. As for getting back to the music -- my opinion is that will happen naturally. I, for one, have listened to very little since this happened and really don't have much of an interest right now. In my mind I believe it just might be better this time for our nation to stay focused on the issues at hand. We are forever looking to diversions and distractions to take us away from our realities.

Reality is upon us now.

It has entered our homes.

We need to take the time to understand that.

It is not time for distraction.

We have arrived at the most critical juncture in our history.

If I may share my idea of how the United States should approach this matter I will be interested to hear others' opinions. Wouldn't we be wise to put out the list of names and the edict that every single one of these beasts will be delivered to us within seventy two hours or holy hell will be unleashed. I say give the opportunity to the world to bring them forward while showing our willingness for a peaceful resolution. If we are not satisfied, and nothing short of the entire list will bring satisfaction, we then can turn our military on the appropriate targets and bring justice upon them.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 21:47:31 CEST 2001 from hvc-24-164-172-134.hvc.rr.com (24.164.172.134)

Dennis

Ladies, Gentlemen:

As a huge Band fan (just came in to three more great shows), I come to this stimulating web site to find out how others around the world feel about the music and the scene that creativity generates. Like many others, both posters and "readers," I've read comment after comment these last couple of days and have come to the conclusion it's time for me to hit the "Submit" button and throw in my two cents worth:

Some background: as a volunteer EMT/Fireman, I'm approaching my 2000th call over the last 16 years. My spouse and I were discussing earlier that it's very, very rare for someone to get up in the morning, planning to call 911 that day. But something happens and suddenly their life changes, and in the context of my volunteer work, it's usually not for the good.

The alarm goes off, "Car vs. bicycle, child injured." You pull up your bunker pants, grab your keys, helmut, coat and EMS kit, leaving dinner on the table or kids in the yard or spouse worrying and head out the door. This happens, even in a small town, all too often.

You get to the scene. It's not pleasant. It could be ugly: family, neighbors, passers-by, maybe law enforcement, hopefully the driver didn't run off. Everybody, victims, families, even the responders, are hurting in their own way.

This kind of incident, these kind of hurting feelings brought on by helplessness regarding a split-second change in one's life, multiplied exponentially, has transpired here in New York this week. One minute you're in control, the next minute your life is out of control.

There's many a child in this region (and world-wide, I'm sure) whose parent won't be next to this year's Christmas tree or helping with next year's college tuition. There's many a loved one that will break down tears, alone, in front of a cold TV dinner next month. Many plans of walking up the aisle to the long-planned wedding are being cancelled.

Instead of arguing whether the driver was going too fast or the child shouldn't have been on the bike in the road, can't we leave that to our trusted officials and get on with helping those that are hurting? There's at least one of your guestbook friends that's hurting big-time, I'm sure there are other readers that are also suffering.

Instead of arguing, go mow the lawn for the new widow down the block. Take up a collection at your office for the kid who's dad's missing and couldn't afford much insurance. Stop on your way home from work and tell the person of other origin where you buy your newspaper and coffee how much you appreciate them. Give some blood so your neighbor can have that surgery sooner rather than later. Take out your driver's license and sign the back to donate organs in case your life changes tonight. Your opportunity to share your love is only limited by your immagination.

Let's give both peace and justice a chance and, in the mean time, show the universe that the human race is capable of incredible good, even in the shadow of evil.

Years ago, while working the first day of a huge construction project, an old laborer replied to my question of "This project is huge, where do you start?" His reply was, "Son, there's no job too big, your immagination's just too small."

I hope your immagination isn't as small as mine was that day. Please, go out and do something good for someone today, next week and hopefully get in the habit. It's a good one.....

Thank you for your time and thoughts. Dennis

Music sometimes helps. Above (hopefully) is a link to the Dancing on the Air radio show from WAMC-FM in Albany, NY. You'll find two Crowmatix shows (one with Garth) in the archive for soothing your soul in this time of hurting....

Posted on Fri Sep 14 21:43:59 CEST 2001 from spider-wl062.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.47)

calvin

I have to agree with another observer that peace really wont work. First once the genie has been let out of the bottle, it is out, it will never go back in, at least no in our lifetime. Also, even if our goverment said they had no business driving Arabs out of the area that is now Isreal in 48, out of places that had been their homes for 1,500, apologized for it, gave no support to Isreal and pulled all of our troops and ships out of the gulf, I have to believe those people would still hate us. Now I'm not suggesting for a second we do that, or am even saying we shouldnt have done what we did in the first place, but their isnt anything we can do to make peace with them. Sadly that genie is also out of the bottle.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 21:38:29 CEST 2001 from spider-wl062.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.47)

calvin

I have to respectfully disagree with some who feel this outpouring of emotion doesn't belong in the GB. My God, this is the most traumatic shared moment in our lives, at least that of the Americans. Every board I belong to has been filled with stories and a sense of needing to vent and share, we need it. And I for one although momentarily offended certain words directed at me or others who had given thier opionions thoughtfully in the the long I can't take offense, in moments like this words are said in anger, frustration and pain that usually wouldn't have been uttered. A number of posts have already appeared apologizing for things they have said. I want to thank Jan for allowing this to go on, it has done me good, given me a place to give my thoughts free rein, given me a place to read and understand the views of those who differ with me. In a few days we'll get back to talking about the Band, but for now, frankly, getting rid of that empty feeling many of us feel with groups like this take precedance.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 20:59:51 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

.......the Band! Please let's return.

The name of Howie B's new cd is called Folk, and Robbie's voice can be heard on the track "All This Means This To Me". It was released on the 3rd of this month.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 20:52:32 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp117.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.117)

Diamond Lil

It saddens me to come home from work and read the angry posts in here today. Not even anger directed at the recent tragedy..but anger at each other. No amount of fighting or name calling or threats is going to change what happened on Tuesday..and I think perhaps it's time we all try very hard here to help instead of hurt each other. There's a long road to healing ahead, and maybe some small steps among all of us here will be a start. We've seen the destruction that anger and hatred can bring. Let's not destroy each other because of it.

I hope everyone here has a good weekend and can find some peace of mind. Thanks.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 20:35:21 CEST 2001 from spider-wd062.proxy.aol.com (205.188.193.177)

Dave ~ (the drummer)

Jan, (and to who this may concern:)

I know this GB was intended to be a public forum dedicated to The Band and those that continue to carry the torch. It saddens me to log on and see the site desecrated in this way.

There are literally thousands of political websites to conduct this sort of diatribe. Why must it continue to prevail over all else in The Band GB????

It's one thing to have a constructive discussion about this horrible tragedy and use the GB to heal broken spirits through commiseration (ie the list of survivors.) It's quite another to perpetuate senseless bickering and more hatred.

Jan: I for one wouldn't be surprised or offended if you gave the GB a temporary sabbatical.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 20:08:54 CEST 2001 from 1cust221.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.57.221)

Crabgrass

My main point that religion fuels violence has been aptly demonstrated right here in the microcosm of the Guestbook. Thanks for the participation!!

It is not surprising to me that religion, which is itself irrational, would cause irrational behavior such as the recent horrific suicide disaster missions and I have little hope that the world envisioned in John Lennon's "Imagine" will ever come to fruition in any of our lifetimes.

The Age of Reason concept seems to have arrived on planet Earth somewhat prematurely.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 20:06:15 CEST 2001 from mail.bsllaw.com (209.226.40.130)

Another Observer

I do not enjoy the prospect of death and destruction - it scares the hell out of me. If even one innocent person dies as the result of US retaliation, it will be a tragedy. However, it will be a tragedy brought on by the terrorists, not the US. You are very foolish Chris if you think my thoughts on this are motivated by enjoyment of violence. I abhor violence. I think boxing is barbaric and I am opposed to capital punishment. It is the terrorists who have blood lust, not me. But anyone who thinks you can "give peace a chance" or reason with these people, or arrest them and give them a fair trial is living in a dream world, not the real world. I am no fan of George W. and find him somewhat less than inspiring. But thankfully he or the people around him are not listening to the lambs like you who are content to be led to be slaughtered rather than fighting back.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 19:40:05 CEST 2001 from acb5af43.ipt.aol.com (172.181.175.67)

Gail

Dear fellow GB'ers, Love and Peace to all.May the Creator grant deliverance to these horrors.Grant our leaders composure and wisdom.May we illuminate our World with light and love. Prayers lifted to strengthen, heal and in rememberance to those who have fallen.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 19:23:00 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

JTULL FAN

Another Observer and Peter Viney both made great posts. Seems Twilight continues to stalk me on this board but is yet to even send me an email like many of the thoughtful individuals out here to discuss things. Very odd. I wonder if he/she/it has considered the lyrics to 'Twilight': A young man serves his country while and old man guards the home'. Do these words have meaning to this confused individual. Also, it shocks me newspapers still quote Falwell and Robertson. They both would make good halloween masks. How much you guys wanna bet sooner a later we hear claims that Bin Laden is dead but a body never turns up? Betcha.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 18:52:43 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

I don't live in a fantasy world. I simply don't share your anger or blood lust. I believe that we have the ability to stop the violence from escalating. I also believe that to be a better choice than killing more innocent people.

I believe that Confucious once said, " Never argue publicly with a fool for passerby may not be able to tell the difference between you." That being said please feel free to rant on. I have stated my point and believe it to be valid. Yours is not any less valid than mine...it just comes with more bloodshed.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 18:52:08 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tl031.proxy.aol.com (64.12.107.161)

bob wigo

I'm standing "with my arms reaching out and my head hanging down."

This is an overwhelming sadness.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 18:37:43 CEST 2001 from mail.bsllaw.com (209.226.40.130)

Another Observer

Actually, "get in the real world, or come back to reality, or are you completely nuts" are things I say to people who live in a fantasy world. The people who died this week did not get the option to choose life or death. It was chosen for them. Sometimes, sad as it is, if you choose life, you necessarily choose death for others. This is one of those times. It's not the USA who has chosen to make the world the equivalent of the Gaza strip - it's the terrorists. And it's not the Israelis who have made the Gaza strip what it is - it's the Palestinians. They were offered a deal which would have resulted in Israel and Palestine sharing Jerusalem as a capital - an unthinkable offer for most Israelis, but they rejected it in favor of the old push the Jews into the sea strategy. These are the people who cheered the terrorism this week. Reality is sometimes life or death with no middle ground. Choose life, and if that means death for these animals so be it. If it means death for innocent people, then that is tragic - but while the US or the Israelis may be the instrument of the death of innocent people they are not nor will they be the cause, just as the Allies were the instruments of the rain of death on Dresden and Hiroshima, but were not the cause. The Germans and the Japanese who started the war and perpetrated it with unprecedented brutality must take the blame, and the deaths of the innocents who died in Dresden and Hiroshima are on their heads. When you are in a war you do whatever it takes. Hindsight is 20/20 but people who are dead have no sight at all. Some who marched like lambs into the gas chambers hoped for peace - their children and grandchildren in Israel today know better.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 18:31:50 CEST 2001 from spider-wd032.proxy.aol.com (205.188.193.162)

Brien Sz

It seems the GB is really a reflection of the events of the past few days - chaos, anger, confusion. It will pass but for now sensitivities will rise high.., we have entered a whole new world. I too want peace but the cry for blood is going to shout down any such wants. We will pave the road of revenge with many innocent lives i fear, but they paved it first.

Let's not underestimate our president yet.., He now stands at the precipise of History - may he guide us well for he is our Leader - like it or not.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 18:23:44 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.69.151.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.69.151)

Pat Brennan

Here's the two fine Americans, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, and their shared patriotic stance in the midst of this crisis:

Falwell said the American Civil Liberties Union has "got to take a lot of blame for this," again winning Robertson's agreement: "Well, yes."

Then Falwell broadened his blast to include the federal courts and others who he said were "throwing God out of the public square." He added: "The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.' "

From the Washington Post website. Unconscionable.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 18:02:40 CEST 2001 from 64-208-185-9.nas1.mon.gblx.net (64.208.185.9)

Lars

It seems that life has turned bitter these past 3 days and that talk about Band music seems like a pleasant, distant memory. I know I've been under the same strain that many of you expressed during this period that feels like a month. I almost feel guilty that I am one of the lucky ones who thought he'd lost a friend (who worked at Windows of the World, up on top) only to find that he was listed as a survivor and described as "fine." But I know some other people who worked at that restaurant and they are missing. Probably everybody in our area knows people who worked at The World Trade Center area. It's hard to take a deep breath.

I always thought of myself as a "Baby Boomer" until recently when I got re-classified as an "Ike" (someone born between WWII and the end of Eisenhower's administration). I was one of the kids who wore a coon skinned cap and bragged that America was the best country in the world. I was one of the crew-cut kids who kneeled down with my classmates in front of a concrete wall in our school, hands over our necks, as our teachers stood behind us. Even so, we were innocent and the '50's turned out to be a good time to grow up.

For me, it all changed the day Kennedy was assassinated. The 60's were turbulent times and the peanut gallery wound up fighting a war in Viet Nam and Cambodia. My generation was more concerned with mines and NeverNever Land was no longer on my list of places I hoped to see someday. I felt jaded. I found myself walking around metal cigarette lighters that were lying on sidewalks, even in my home town.

Since Viet Nam we've had some rough times, but when the Soviet Union splintered and it appeared we had won the Cold War, I thought things might be okay after all. I hoped my kids could grow up in a relatively peaceful world. Dyed hair and body piercing aside, I thought this new generation was going to be all right. All that changedon Sept. 11th. Our world was no longer safe, terrorism was not something that happened only overseas. And it's only begun. If our enemies could cause so much havoc in one day, they must be planning more trouble for us in the future.

And what pains me the most is to hear that George W. Bush has a plan......

Posted on Fri Sep 14 18:02:11 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-027.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.27)

Peter Viney

You are right from your side and I am right from mine. Let’s not attack each other here, Hawks and Doves. Argue the point, not the personalities. As to the music, I can’t say I’ve listened to anything since Tuesday lunchtime (British time). It will come back.

Hiroshima and Dresden. I suspected they’d come up. I’ve been to Hiroshima four times and walked around the Peace Museum twice, once with Japanese colleagues. There are shadows of people burnt onto the marble wall of what used to be a bank. I don’t think I’d have the stomach to walk round it again. Hiroshima wasn’t the prime target nor even a military target. Like Dresden, it was an uncommonly beautiful town, not a military or industrial centre. It was the secondary target because due to weather, the Enola Gay couldn’t reach the industrial complex at Nagoya, a much larger town where there would have been even greater loss of life. Dresden was chosen as a symbolic target. Hard to justify, but when I was a child I couldn’t understand why Southampton and Plymouth, six or seven years after the war, were still a sea of bombsites and rubble. As were great swathes of London. A statue of Air Marshall ‘Bomber’ Harris, one of the architects of the Dresden raid, stands in Southampton now. I’m told the Tokyo firebombing a few weeks before Hiroshima was even more destructive than the nuclear explosion or the Dresden firebombing, though it doesn’t have the impact in the collective consciousness.

So what’s my view? Consider the cost to both sides of a land invasion of Japan in 1945 (or 1945 to 1948 as it might have been). Hundreds of thousands would have died. In mid-1945 my father was one of the British troops in Germany expecting imminent relocation to the Far East. It could be that I exist because he didn’t have to go. I see Hiroshima as the lesser of two evils. A Japanese friend asked me on my return to Tokyo from Hiroshima, ‘How does it feel for a Westerner to see all that?’ Harrowing. Shocking. The ultimate argument against war of any kind. As a Westerner, I felt guilt by association watching the people there offering up prayers to relatives they’d lost fifty years ago. You can’t stand there and justify what happened on any personal level. The vast majority of victims were innocent. But also, I’m afraid, it was the inevitable end of a path that started with the Rape of Nanking and continued via Pearl Harbour and the Burma Railway and Guadalcanal to its logical conclusion. As for Dresden, my father was driving one of the very first trucks when the allies entered Belsen. My mother told me that he hardly had a night for the rest of his life without the nightmare visions of Belsen. He died in 1966. I know what his views were on Dresden. And you can’t quote Dresden without quoting Belsen. Nor Hiroshima without Nanking. In both theatres of WWII, the surviving enemy generals were tried and hanged, not left in place as Saddam was. As a result of the war, their fascist systems were removed, and the people were in a genuine sense freed from indoctrination. Moreover, both Germany and Japan are now our close friends and allies. This is why we need to study history, in the hope that we can learn the lessons it has for us.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 17:51:41 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.69.151.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.69.151)

Pat Brennan

Did anyone else see Jerry Falwell's quote last night concerning the WTC bombing? It scrolled by the bottom of one of the news show. I still can't believe my eyes and I am loath to post it. Anyone?

Posted on Fri Sep 14 17:36:39 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

I Hope that by choosing life I am not selecting others for death.

Get in the real world, or come back to reality, or are you completely nuts are often things that people say when their world view is threatened. Personally I simply don't believe that violence is a means to resolve conflict.

Where do you see this conflict in five years if we attack and further escalate the violence? Are you prepared to make the entire world the equivalent of the Gaza Strip?

Posted on Fri Sep 14 17:16:34 CEST 2001 from mail.bsllaw.com (209.226.40.130)

Another Observer

Chris, with respect are you nuts? Do you think you're going to bring these vermin to trial? High road, shmigh road. This is war. There is no high road. There is victory, there is defeat, or their is the middle road taken by President George the Elder who had the enemy on the run and then lost his nerve, which is probably to some extent why we're in this situation. And please note. I'm not Christian and I'm not Hindu. My people fight these terrorists every day in Israel. There is life and there is death. Choose life.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 17:14:31 CEST 2001 from (209.89.149.111)

John D

CARMEN.....DON'T STAY AWAY. ALL IS FORGIVEN. COME BACK LITTLE SHEBA. No I was just pointing stuff out and it wasn't aimed at you. I saw a man on NBC this morning who had got to work late the other morning. He couldn't stop crying telling his story. Then when I come to this guestbook and people are swearing and screaming and yelling, I get a little sad.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 16:53:55 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

For those that said..."We've tried peace it didn't work"...I would request evidence of exactly when.

If you are someone that believes that we have adapted a policy of "peace at any cost" could you possibly suggest that now is the time to abandon that policy. If that policy is correct when we are not under attack isn't it more important when we are.

My main point is that if a group can organize to pull off an attack like this then what happens when the next target is a nuclear power plant. Or worse yet when a nuclear warhead is targeted. We have weapons of incredible destruction all over the world just waiting to be targeted. We have to eliminate these targets before they can be used against us like our own planes were.

We have to find and bring to trial the people that organized this attack. We have to take the high road which will show us not as bloodthirsty, gung ho, shoot em up John Wayne types but as peaceful men and women who are working for a better world.

For you religious types, I always get a chuckle from the bumper sticker, "How would Jesus Drive?", but wouldn't that be an appropriate question to ask about this situation. People are angry at Crabgrass and want to beat him up, or want to blow small countries off the earth, but "How would Jesus act?".

Or for those of you not Christian..."How would Ghandi act?"

I don't want the argument to sound sophmoric but we are really in a dangerous place now. We have before us the option of really igniting the whole bonfire and retaliating or working to bring a peaceful solution to this tragedy. I believe that if we retaliate nobody is safe. No matter where you live in the U.S., or in a country that supports our actions, terrorism can reach you.

Vietnam was impossible to win because we weren't equipped for geurilla warfare in the jungle. Are we equipped to defend against attacks on civilian targets where the attackers don't expect to live. I don't think so. And what will our world be like if we prepare ourselves. Nobody wins. We cannot escalate the violence and expect that to end the conflict. It didn't work for Nixon in Vietnam and it won't work now.

Lick the wounds, put it all back together, try the accused, and use this tragedy as a staging point for world peace.

And in response to another point raised...That is reality. Violence begets violence...stop the cycle.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 16:34:01 CEST 2001 from (12.33.178.117)

twilight

Sitting on a park bench....

Posted on Fri Sep 14 16:11:13 CEST 2001 from (205.245.52.66)

carmen

John, you are right and I am sorry for my last post. I just can not understand how some people can justify breaking down others last and only hope. As most GB'ers I have been coming here to talk about the BAND and have considered many in here my friends. I have always been a gentleman and am sorry my temper got the best of me. As a result of my mistake, I will stay away.

best regards to all!

Posted on Fri Sep 14 15:00:52 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

Somewhere between "people who are hurting" along with the "John Wayne mentality" and those who are trying to rewrite history......this is getting a little weird in here. I'm sorry; but threatening other people in the guestbook with physical harm and people screaming f... this and f... that doesn't help anyone during these times.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 14:49:53 CEST 2001 from spider-wg053.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.43)

Brien Sz

I'm really surprised at you Crabgrass. I know you have a hate thing with God and that is fine. And it seems an almost juvenile perception of God as an old man with a white beard looking over everything and controlling the ways of the world BUT you know most people in here have some form of faith and your lack of respect and sensitivity to it is appalling. So i'm sure you don't care about what many of us or how many of us feel. By the way - do we offend you? Those of us who believe in God..,

I would like to here your views on Israel - If logic dictates - then you must be anti-Isreal as well - for it is solely based on (your words) the stupidity of religion.

P.S. I've met carmen, I'd worry if you ran into him.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 14:24:22 CEST 2001 from (205.245.52.66)

carmen

You know what crab grass, why don't you just keep your mean spirited comments to yourself. I for one will no longer visit this place because of you! You are an ass hole and remember this my friend, I was never one to turn the other cheek and if I ever run into you, I promise that I will kick your ass.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 13:45:56 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp171.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.171)

Diamond Lil

Has anyone heard from or talked to Eb? EB..if you're out there..please check in with us so we know you're ok. Thanks.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 12:39:07 CEST 2001 from 1cust111.tnt2.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.108.111)

Hi

Someone let me know when you get back to discussing music here..thanks...

Posted on Fri Sep 14 08:05:36 CEST 2001 from 2cust16.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.55.144)

Crabgrass

The Heavens have just opened up above NYC sending down a big thunder and lightning storm to help with the disaster rescue operations. The Lord indeed works in mysterious ways. I guess that's his answer to all the prayers offered up here today.

Halleluja!!

Posted on Fri Sep 14 06:51:50 CEST 2001 from dialup-341.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.85)

Hank

Firstly, Bob Dylans new album reminds me a little bit of Leon Redbone......anyone else find that? The best thing about 'Love and Theft' is that some of the lyrics are REALLY funny........

With regards to the on-going debate about the 'New War'...... as W. calls it......the FIRST thing The USA has got to do is assess what weaknesses led to this......the most obvious is the fact that it's as easy to get on a domestic flight in The USA as it is to get on a bus or a train..........that HAS to change.....the other thing is that everybody in The USA has got to wake up to the reality of The Middle East..... The USA, as The Leader of Nations in The World should see to it that the land and resources are shared and that no peoples be dispossessed.........Also, The USA must cease fostering and supplying people like Bin Laden, Saddam and maniacs like them.........NYC and DC are the results of such foolishness......find the person or persons who decided Saddam and Bin Laden should have been supported in the 70ies and 80ies......then go out and shoot THAT person, extract Revenge from THOSE people.....drop a bomb on THEM. The only thing is, the person or persons who made those decisions are most probably US citizens........it's embarrassing.....Maggie Thatcher supporting a sicko like Pinochet........The USA supported Batista in Cuba so the rich and decadent could party in Cuba....paving the way for Castro........Supporting lunatics like these because they're good for business or fighting 'communism' is what led to NYC and DC......

I believe that NYC will rise again and be even stronger as the ghosts of The Twin Towers infuse New Yorkers with fire to rebuild and be strong for years to come.......

Posted on Fri Sep 14 06:30:00 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-117-202.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.117.202)

BWNWITennessee

You are right, Pat, and that's something that hasn't been mentioned much at all yet. Maybe it will be eventually. Four passenger planes were flying hijacked for what - 45 minutes, or more - and not a single response was taken against a single one of them. Someone knew that there was a hijacked plane flying over Pennsylvania - someone knew - at the same time that they knew that hijacked planes had been flown into the WTC and Pentagon, and nothing was done about it. We all heard that there were unconfirmed rumors of a plane crash in Pennsylvania, they didn't know if it was a Cessna or completely untrue; how come we weren't hearing that there was a hijacked plane flying over Ohio? Someone, or several people knew, why was absolutely nothing done about it? It's not really the time to be finger-pointing internally, but someone fucked up seriously. Even if the individual airlines weren't aware that there were other hijackings, they each should have reported it to the FAA as soon as they lost contact with their plane, and the planes made U-Turns, and the FAA should have reported it to the proper government agencies immediately. They're talking about lax security in airports, but they're not saying much at all about that. Maybe they don't want to put responsibility on a few people for screwing up that badly.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 05:45:51 CEST 2001 from spider-wb022.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.157)

Bayou Sam

Last night I had a horrible dream that I I went into my kitchen and there got jumped by two Nazis. It sounds strange dosen't it?

It's so damn scarey and depressing around here. It's starting to affect everyone in some way. People are numb, angry, sad, and having nightmares. All the local TV stations are doing 24 hour coverage as they send truckloads of debris out of lower Manhattan. They have found over a hundred bodies - and a horrible amount of body parts. People are crying and searching for loved ones that are probably never coming home. People are giving detailed discriptions of loved ones, in case the workers find just "part" of the loved one. It's fucken awful.

They have evacuated Macy's, Penn Station, and The Empire State Building at different times over the last 24 hours. All turned out to be hoaxes by copy-cat sickos. They tried to open the airports and they nailed some guys trying to boards plane with knives - and some guy with a fake pilots license. What the hell is happeneing here?

"There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear"

I was in a school today and when it came time for the Pledge of Allegance, I don't think I was so proud and heartfelt in facing the flag and reciting it. That may sound corny - but there is a real sense of unity around here in the face of this horror. I'm feeling pretty damn red-white-and blue these days.

I'm not sure why I'm babbling all this here. You probably have seen it all on TV. I guess I just felt like I could unload on my friends here in the coffee shop. Thanks

Posted on Fri Sep 14 05:28:43 CEST 2001 from spider-ta061.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.71)

Dave Z

Anybody know anything about the Eyabay CD "4 Life" which I guess was produced by Robbie?... I'd love to hear a GBer review it?... I guess they are a pretty cool drum group from Red Lake, MN... Come on out lurkers... pleeease...

Hey Sundog, you gonna post any Crowmatix pics from your Summer Shakedown?... Peter V, sounds like the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree... Is that daughter of yours a Van fan too?

Sorry if I'm back to the music inappropriately... but prayers are constantly in my thoughts too... I'm proud that one of MN's own was a key player in stopping the PA-crashed-plane from reaching its intended target... God bless him and his family...

Posted on Fri Sep 14 05:28:01 CEST 2001 from spider-wb012.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.152)

Ben Pike

Pat, as I have so often done with you, I seemed to have mixed something up in my mind. Everything you said was fine, sorry. Sherry, what was your take on Seymore Hearsh's peice of about two years ago? You know, the one about the guys who came back from the gulf war claiming unarmed Men from Irac where slaughtered in cold blood as they retreated from the Gulf? Happen to catch that? Or was Paula Jones on Hannaday and Combes that night? If you want to choose the "no more thinking about it" route, you could do no better than to get your history from Observer, who obviously took that tact long ago.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 05:11:29 CEST 2001 from spider-wg053.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.43)

Brien Sz

The dumbing down of the American Press continues..,I have worked for various news agencies and i can tell you, stories that have substance are looked down upon. Sex sells - it drives advertising dollars. The search for Chandra made great drama (or over drama)a luckless congressman - man no substance, no thought, just a lot of talk - it's what the press wants - it's what the news wants! It's Brainless

Now we have a tough issue on our hands. Can our journalists drive this story as they could a sex scandal and not bore the public.., hate to say it but we bore quickly - When the Gulf War hit, we were into it, but three months later.., it was like, turn the channel, can we watch something else, You mean this war isn't over yet! I understand this is WAY different but lets see how long our patience for it will last. It will be a test on our culture - Has our attention span waned so much that we will become numb to this to? Let's hope not..,

Posted on Fri Sep 14 04:39:42 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.118.66.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.118.66)

Pat Brennan

Ben, I'm not exactly sure what you asked of me. However, if you are into second-guessing somebody(as I have been for the past few days) then consider this: air-traffic control was aware for a full half hour before the first plane hit the WTC that something was terribly wrong on the plane--radio turned off, transponder neutralized. Tonight we have learned that there was actual radio communication well before the strike that convinced one controller that the plane had been hijacked. As these planes descended on NYC, was there no communication between the FAA and the Air Force? Then, after the first strike, another 20 minutes passes with the FAA fully aware that a second non-responsive and likely-hijacked plane is approaching NYC. Again, was there no communication between the FAA and the Air Force?

I realize now is hardly the time to consider these questions. But I can't get them out of my head.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 04:05:16 CEST 2001 from spider-wm081.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.186)

JTULL FAN

Misc. stuff: Someone down the list asked for the connection betwenn Al Gore and the Band: It is Tommy lee Jones, ex-Gore roomate and the guy who got Mr. Levon into Coalminer's Daughter. (I think) Also, are Ringo Starr and Yasser Arafat twins separated at birth? Lastly, as a stark contrast to our beloved terrorists, look at the progression of posts on this board since tuesday to their actions. We might be angry, sometimes at each other out here, but we are DISCUSSING things, not BLOWING each other up. And to underscore my continued position to go after them and eradicate them, it is similar to a person who kills someone in a barfight and a Mark Chapman. The barfight killer gets manslaughter, a serious but not premeditated crime. They will get out someday, 15 or 20 years down the road. They can be reformed. A Chapman, a premeditated murderer who stalked his prey for months (well he only got 20 + but that's a different issue) would get death in many states. these terrorists planned this for over a year. In all that time, their hearts were so hardened as to never question and abandon their plans. That is NOT reformable.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 03:49:00 CEST 2001 from cr514777-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com (24.114.57.20)

Observer

Right on Sherry! I am deeply troubled by the some of the posts I am reading here. Basmanlee, you say you’re not anti-Semitic. Fine. Then you must be very poorly informed about middle eastern affairs. Israel is a small courageous country that has continuously fought for its life for more than 50 years. It has always tried to compromise for peace only to be rebuffed by violence. Now America has now seen first hand a large dose of what Israel lives with every day. Do not equate the fight for self preservation waged by the Israelis with the barbaric actions of the Palestinians who celebrate the deaths of thousands of innocents and then threaten the newsmen who try and report it. America should be proud of its support for Israel. It is disgraceful that people like you can even hint that America has somehow brought this tragedy upon itself. You say you are thoughtful – I only see fuzzy thinking. What I am saying is proven by the idiotic follow up posts of people like Tennessee who equate the “atrocities” of Israel with those of the Palestinians. And to Ben Pike and his fellow fans of Neville Chamberlain: Guess what? The raid on Dresden and the atomic bombing of Japanese cities were fully justified. War is war and that one was started by the people who lived in Dresden and Hiroshima and their countryman – the same people who raised the level of barbarism to heights never attained before or since in human history. Mr. Viney, your first instinct was correct. Some of you people should grow up and face reality.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 03:21:53 CEST 2001 from spider-tn011.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.46)

Sherry

Yes, by all means, let's disarm immediately. Let's all convene in the morning meadow, glistening with dew, and recite poetry and song lyrics, maybe share some really fine weed with our misunderstood brothers and sisters, as we , surely, are simply misunderstood by them, and exchange poseys with Yassir, Saddam, our dear brother in love and peace, Osama, and let's also extend a cordial invitation to the perpetrators of Tiennimin (sp?) while we are at it. We'll lock arms and gently sway together while singing Kumbya, Imagine, and my personal favorite, Michael Row the Boat Ashore. Then we'll do Row Row Row Your Boat and other rounds, they are so good for breaking the ice. How about a rollicking game of musical chairs, followed by charades? Potluck supper together in the late afternoon, I'll bring potato salad, we American womenfolk can trade recipes with the shrieking harridens we saw celebrating in the streets of Palestine yesterday. (Funny, every time I see death and destruction in Palestine, I don't take to the streets doing some totally freaky utterances and jumping up and down and shooting guns off, but that's just me.) Finally, we'll just sit on the crest the hill and be mellow together, as the sun sets, so groovy and purple and orange. Oh wait a minute, the sun is setting in the east today, how wierd. What's with all the smoke and haze, oh yeah, it's what's left of lower Manhatten. Probably upwards of 30,000 innocent Americans lying under hundreds of thousands of tons of concrete and steel; never had a chance. Firefighters, police and rescuers by the hundreds who gave their lives to save fellow Americans. Mothers and Fathers, Wives, Husbands, Brothers, Sisters and Children, at the site of destruction, weeping and begging to go in and try and save their loved ones. D.C., Pennsylvania. Our embassies in Africa, the U.S.S. Cole. Beautiful children on the plane that slammed into the Pentagon, smashed lifeless before they could even reach the age of ten. Yes, my terrorist bretheren, we've got your peace for you, in the righteous wrath every man, woman and child in this country who understands the price heretofore paid in blood, toil and incredible sacrifice to make this land worthy of a statue of freedom at it's portal, proclaiming "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores - give these, the homeless, tempetst tossed to me . . . I lift my lamp beside the golden door".

Quoting song lyrics seems to be popular, here's a few lines from one of my favorites:

Let Freedom ring

Let the white dove sing

Let the whole world know that today

Is the day of reckoning

Let the weak be strong

Let be right the wrong

Roll the stone away

Let the guilty pay

It's Independence Day!

Posted on Fri Sep 14 03:06:26 CEST 2001 from spider-tk053.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.198)

Ben Pike

Since all bets seem to be off about interjecting Politics into the room(for now) I will excuse myself from my earlier ban and respond to a few things. Viney, If that was Mailer's point when he wrote "The Naked And The Dead", I doubt he would subscribe to it today. Are we, or you, happy with the unnesseary bombing of Dresden? Was it mearly a bi-product of the level of ruthlessness it required to win the war? We should ask the same of Hiroshima, but seldom do. Pat, do we really have the right to claim, "oh, this has happened, we can stop thinking NOW. Seems to me this has happened because of a scarcity of thinking thats been going on for a long time. I have to note, no one responded to my point about the dumbing down of The American Press, as we smirk at stupid stories of our leaders sex lives, were we ALSO keeping up on world affairs? If not, how can we be so sure our premise of the nobel west behaving honorably in the world is correct? Last week, again, or most asteamed(well, rich) journalists were hawking a sleazy non-story about the sex play of luckless congressmen. What if ten percent of those journaistic resourses were investigating terrorism in the U.S.? It didn't happen, because they such stories are a lot harder to sell to people than inane dirty jokes about Clinton. This bombing may be the worst single thing anyone has ever done. It suggests a level of cruelty that to me is even on the level with The Nazis. But even when fighting Nazis, beware of those who insist on shuting down your powers of reason, your thirst for a wide sense of the truth. In my lifetime, we mindlessly celebrated the drug dealing Afgans as they were the enemies of our then current enemy. We probably had much to do with building these people up. Ironies abound. Easy brutality offers little in the way of solutions. And I have a feeling the same people who cackled and smirked at Clinton's attempts to get Bin laden are the same people to tell you "stop thinking, you don't need to understand" now.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 02:42:19 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp262228.sympatico.ca (64.230.34.151)

brown eyed girl

Sometimes life can hit so hard
It can knock you off your feet
Leave you stranded by the side of the road
Livin' on the street

I've been down that path before
From the bottom to the top
I kept pushin' for something more
And I didn't know how to stop

SAVE ME FROM THE MADNESS
SAVE ME FROM MYSELF
SAVE ME FROM THE SADNESS
OF LOSING SOMEONE ELSE

Carry me carry me
Carry me carry me
Carry me home
Carry me home

When I'm down
You lift me up
When I'm out
You reel me in
You have come to change my blood
Forgive me for my sins

Carry me carry me
Carry me carry me
Carry me home
Carry me home

SAVE ME FROM THE DARKNESS
SAVE ME FROM THE HARDNESS
Carry me carry me
Carry me home

Just the other night
I saw a haunted man
He had a beautiful raincoat
I felt a pain of terrific sadness for him
THEN I REALIZED I WAS WATCHING MYSELF
Six months down the road

You know God
Only gives you
The things you sort out
Never the big stuff
That way he can make sure
That you stick around until
The end of the party

Carry me carry me
Carry me carry me
Carry me home
Carry me home

SAVE ME FROM THE DARKNESS
SAVE ME FROM THE HARDNESS

Carry me carry me
Carry me carry me
Carry me home

CARRY ME by Robbie Robbertson and Tim Gordine From ANY GIVEN SUNDAY VOLUME 2

Posted on Fri Sep 14 01:59:39 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tf011.proxy.aol.com (64.12.103.21)

Brien Sz

I have to comment on the Gulf War issue and why we didn't pave out Iraq. Some time back in the 80's i read a book written by a muslim Professor. I wish i could remember it (Why terrorists attack America - something like that) It seemed to be filled with lots of venom towards the USA. Israel aside - One of the reasons we are hated is that we are perceived to be two faced. Our 'word' is nothing, means nothing. A staple in the muslim world is the honor of one's 'word'. According to them, the USA has back stabbed and double talked the muslim world for far too long.

Before the Coalition - countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and others in the middle east who joined our cause, were very suspicious of our aims and our 'word'. Yes relations had improved in thtat region with some countries but the situation there was always very shaky at best. The US, had to give it's word, that they would not drive into Baghdad and take it over. We wanted Sadams head, but it could not be done if we wanted the support of those arab nations. We kept our word (like it or not)- afterwards our relations with those countries was never better, it's one of the reasons we have so much support from certain Arab nations today. Even Syria was impressed with our actions. It was important to cultivate trust in the region. Had we not given our word then - tracking down Osama bin Laden would be next to impossible now. The use of military bases in the region, safe harbors, air space would all be for naught.

We did what we had to do at the time - Now may be our hour to rise higher and achieve goals we wish we had achieved earlier. I understand there is A LOT more to the Coalition ten years ago then simply ones word but when ones 'word' is so important to anothers culture, it was best we paid attention to it. To fight your enemy or to make friends of your enemy, is to know them. We paid attention then, we need to pay attention now!

Posted on Fri Sep 14 01:52:24 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-116-94.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.116.94)

BWNWITennessee

You're right, bassmanlee, that the United States can't continue to condemn the atrocities of one country while condoning the relentless atrocities of another.

I do also think that whatever is done, it needs to be done to completion, something that this country has probably not done since WWII. It's the starting of actions without completing them, due to concern over the reaction of the international community, that has created so many problems in recent years. Personally, I sort of feel that any organization or individual with known ties to terrorist organizations should be taken out, regardless of whether or not they had any connection to this particular incident, because any one of them could have. We (the civilized world) keep giving inches, and they keep taking miles. We have the power to get rid of any terrorist organization, and we should, and we could continue to do so to any group that emerges in the future. We have the power to stop these people, and so far we haven't, because of fear of international criticism.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 01:18:10 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-071.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.71)

Peter Viney

In general, like so many, I suspect I'm suffering severe media fatigue. My work is with video so I have a TV in my office. These last days, BBC News 24 goes on every hour to check, then it stays on for half an hour while I boil. Tomorrow I need fresh air and a long walk by the sea. Which so many cannot now do.

We should at some time mention the Band, not that any of them would resent abandoning them temporarily. There was a good point about Robbie solo remasters. Don't think I have a view tonight, but will try to get one.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 01:02:03 CEST 2001 from spider-wa034.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.34)

JTULL FAN

RECOMMENDED: Appropriate to the GB subject this week, I have been thinking about a great Alfred Hitchcock move called 'Lifeboat', cowritten by John Steinbeck. It came out in 1944 and deals with survivors in a lifeboat from a ship sunk by a Uboat. It is an amazing drama and has to deal with the good and evil within people, and how the 'good' people react to evil. I don't wish to giveaway details to those of you who wish to rent it, but it is so relevant today. I think I will myself this weekend. I have a suspicion Mr. Viney may be familiar with it. And Peter, no need to back off your militaristic remarks; Bush Sr. by following to the letter the U.N. resolutions, stopped the ground attack when he did. In retrospect, which is always so abundant, he could have saved a decade + of misery for the Iraqi nation by going further, even with a higher death count. Calculated? Sure. But like a cancer, you cut it all out, not part.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 00:56:01 CEST 2001 from 1cust90.tnt30.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.42.158.90)

Crabgrass

Damn!! Bad news heaped upon bad news.

The Crowmatix gigs for this coming weekend have been cancelled!

Now I'm starting to get really depressed.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 00:25:39 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-112.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.112)

Peter Viney

Rollie, You got me to re-read my post. No of course that won't end it. Kind of shocked at my own militaristic tone there. You've made me feel somewhat ashamed of myself. Really. But if you're going to do anything, and this time I see no alternative, you don't stop halfway.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 00:22:38 CEST 2001 from hvc-24-164-173-143.hvc.rr.com (24.164.173.143)

Tom/Woodstock Records

Hi - Just a quick note : Professor Louie & The Crowmatix regret to inform fans, that dates scheduled for this Friday's performance at Tobacco Road and this Sunday's Columbus Avenue Street Fair in New York City have been cancelled. No replacement dates have been announced as of yet. Thanks! Tom/Woodstock Records

Posted on Fri Sep 14 00:01:08 CEST 2001 from (209.195.208.10)

bassmanlee

My apologies. The correct web site is above.

Posted on Fri Sep 14 00:00:37 CEST 2001 from (203.197.126.104)

Yazooman

Bob : I am very happy for you. I am sure Larry will be home soon. Thanx for the mail.

I just read that the Indian Consul has said that over 250 Indians are feared dead in in the WTC collapse. About 60 to 100 Indians are being treated in hospitals.

Also just read an old news article on Osama bin Laden on a website. Check the above link for details on the mad man. This is what he has to say : "India and America are now our biggest enemies ... all mujahideen groups in Pakistan should come together now to target India ... we are always ready to help the Kashmiri mujahideen."

Posted on Thu Sep 13 23:59:20 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp113.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.113)

Lil Again

Bob Wigo: I just e-mailed you this info, but am also posting it here in case your e-mail is down.
www.alliance-consulting.com
There is a continuous update on here of missing employees.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 23:58:57 CEST 2001 from (209.195.208.10)

bassmanlee

As I watch and listen to the surreal events of the last few days, I have turned to my other window on the world of the last many months, this forum, to see what this collection of varied but somehow connected folks are thinking and feeling. My emotions are mixed as I read, happy that none of the community has been lost, saddened by the vengeful nature of some posts, heartened by others, deeply touched as I hear of those missing loved ones...

That this is a tragedy of un-absorbable proportion is without doubt. That any person or group of persons could deem this a righteous act is beyond comprehension. That somewhere there are puppeteers gloating over their success is sickening.

Those of you who have read my posts know that I try at all times to be thoughtful and reasoned. I dare say I love my country as much as any of you, and have wrestled with it's policies and direction since attaining the age of reason. The question has been asked why anyone would hate the US. Mr. Bush has said that "these people hate our way of life, our freedom" (or words to that effect). I don't believe this to be true. The reason for this attack is directly related to our blind, unequivocal, and uncritical support of Israel and its policies. I am not anti-Semitic in any way, shape, or form, nor am I a supporter of the actions of the Palestinians. It pains me greatly, however, that in the eyes of a great deal of the world, my country is viewed as a_direct_participant in the blatant oppression of the Palestinian people. (Before you fire up your flamethrower, please open your mind and visit the above web site and "walk a mile in the other man's moccasins".) Whether “this is the time”, or not, the truth is the truth, and it needs to be told. There is no other reason that this horrible tragedy has occurred. The continuing tragedy is that with this act, there is no hope of this policy ever changing. There is no reason in war. And, unless cooler heads prevail we are on the verge of killing more innocent people in fruitless attacks against an enemy we can not see, nor comprehend, or ever hope to defeat with weapons alone.

I apologize that I could not find a Band connection for this post. Please spare our community any personal attacks, the address is real. Peace to you all.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 23:40:57 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp113.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.113)

Diamond Lil

Bob Wigo: I don't know how to contact anyone involved with the survivors list you posted, but here are some phone numbers that may be of help. For relatives searching for missing persons: (212) 447-2998
There is also a city info hotline set up : (212) 560-2730
General #'s for info of workers from companies in WTC: (866) 856-4167 or (212) 741-4626
I hope this helps.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 23:16:32 CEST 2001 from 1cust85.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.85)

rollie

Think that'll that end it for good ,do ya Pete?

Posted on Thu Sep 13 23:01:43 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-172.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.172)

Peter Viney

In a break with hundreds of years of tradition, the Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace this morning took place to the American national anthem on the direct and personal instructions of the Queen. This was followed by a silence. Stranded Americans, today feeling so far from home, watched and wept. A tiny, tiny gesture in the face of this horror, but a heartfelt one.

With God On Our side. A brilliant song. But this morning The Guardian reported the Islamic world’s reaction, and though there were many condolences and expressions of disgust, only Saudi Arabia had the guts to say straight out (in Islam’s terms) “This is against the laws of God.”

There’s a concept we need here. It’s expressed in Norman Mailer’s “The Naked and The Dead” and it’s seen in WWII and the Gulf. When confronted with total indiscrimate evil, your only defence is to repay in kind. Awful, but true. So the only person who could defeat the enemy in Mailer’s book was the general, who was as vicious and as determined as the enemy were. In WWII the British followed Churchill, the man of the hour. In 1945, in peacetime, they dropped him like a red-hot brick. He was the man for war, but also a total bastard, certainly not the man for peace. During the Gulf war, the mass media showed the world what happened to the fleeing looters and rapists. The road to Basra. Shot like fish in a barrel by the A10s. It sickened us. George W. Bush’s father stopped it there. Lost his nerve in the face of public reaction to the media, some would say. Speak to a few Iraqi dissidents. They know and fear Saddam. It is their land, but they believe Thatcher (a lone voice, and a woman I loathe) was absolutely correct. She had more balls than any of the men. The only answer to the problem was to take it every step of the way to Baghdad and root out the evil once and for all. But she was a lone voice, no longer in power. I hate to admit it, but she was right. I, shocked by the carnage on the road to Basra, was totally wrong in saying then, ‘Stop now. That’s it.’ Big events will happen. My basic feeling has previously been ‘Give peace a chance,’ but here a line has been crossed. If the USA … no, not just the USA, the entire civilized world… are going to go for it, go for it good. No cameras. Identify those responsible. Be sure they’re the right ones. Then shoot fish in a barrel.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 22:54:54 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-td041.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.166)

bob wigo

Larry Senko appears on the survivors list on the site posted above. His family still has not heard from him. Any ideas on how to contact the people managing this list?

Thank you Little Brother for leading us to this ray of hope.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 22:25:15 CEST 2001 from spider-fra-tb031.proxy.aol.com (195.93.65.161)

Luckycat

i want to express my deepest consternation and regrets about the dispicable acts of terror that happend in america

Posted on Thu Sep 13 21:35:15 CEST 2001 from dhcp21318.sunyocc.edu (198.242.213.18)

FREDDIE FUNK

If I read anymore about giving peace a chance I think Im gonna puke! As a teenager growing up in the sixties i happened to be at Syracuse University when the students took over the campus in spring 1970. I was at Watkins Glen and other venues of peace and love in those venerable but tumultuous times. Believe me I was all for peace but it aint the same today.. Self Preservation and that of families and friends now seems to be the issue. We are being threatened by an insidious enemy that will spare no one or no one thing to attract the attention they seem to thrive on. Give Peace a Chance? WE ALREADY HAVE.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 20:52:12 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

I think Nancy from Austrailia said it best.

"Any kind of criticism, no matter how eloquent or cleverly worded will cause further pain and anger, and I personally feel our American friends deserve space and understanding while they come to grips with this tragedy."

This is not the time to write your thesis on what bothers you about the United States. This is a time to give love and kindness and understanding to our brothers and sisters. Sounds kind of 60's; but that's the way I feel. Some people have come in over the past couple of days to take a few shots at the U.S. Let's make it simple and take it down for a moment.

Your brother passes away and maybe from time to time he's done things (like all of us) that can be looked upon as negative to some. You don't walk up to the family and say "I'm sorry; but you know he was a real son of a bitch at times." At that point some family member is going to punch you in the mouth. Think before you speak. This is a worldwide tragedy and I believe that President Bush and his team will take action when we least expect it and get the perpetrators that "actually" did this. We've already found out that some of these "pilots" that flew these planes were living in Florida for the past year. This was really thought out. It's going to take intelligence and thinking and finally "action" to take them out.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 20:41:03 CEST 2001 from zorg189.revealed.net (208.243.237.189)

Mike

A time for reflection in this country, not retaliation. Those who were behind this act ought to be punished but that's not up to me. I'm not a judge. An act that only fools could have committed...

I'm crying I'm dying I can see what's wrong with me. It's in my head. I can see what's gonna be. As I lie in my bed. Man is not my brotherhood. I am of the dead. I died as I lived as I loved and was born. On some distant hill. The reasons to hide were the reasons I cried. Fools pass laughing still.

There can be bad blood in all I can see. It's in my brain. You don't know the pain I feel. As I must live again. Rocks and stones can't bruise my soul but tears will leave a stain. They smile to themselves as they lay down my head on some distant hill. The blind and the child sweep a tear from their eye. Fools smile as they kill.

I got my own way to go and now I want to take your minds. I believe if you could see the blood between the lines. I believe that you could be a better kind. Please lead the way so the unborn can play On some greener hill. Laugh as the flames eat their burning remains, Fools die laughing still

Truly a shame. A friend of mine had relatives who worked at the world trade center. I really don't know what to say to them, except that I am truly sorry. What else can one say to another in a time like this. Mind numbing intensely. Peace, love and mercy to all. This whole world needs it. Enough is really enough. Peace.

Mike

Posted on Thu Sep 13 20:37:04 CEST 2001 from spider-wl054.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.44)

Amanda

Wow...some of you people are amazing..... you have really got my head spinning! I stand in awe of your intelligence and vast knowledge. I can't get past being sad and scared and just generally in a complete daze. I feel so helpless...I want to jump in the car and rush to NY and just help get some people out of that man-made hell! Alas...I know my mission is to protect my three beautiful sons from this horror story...past, present and future. Everyone is hurting and scared and confused and the way we deal with it is an absolutely personal thing. I have gotten a unique perspective from every single one of you and I am very grateful for that. I must single out Ruth Mc D., whose post I truly identified with. Ruth said "The music of the Band has been a salve for me through many personal tragedies, and is a relief during this world wide crisis." I received "The Sea To The North" in the mail on Monday. I wasn't sure how I would feel about the CD or if I would like it. I have to tell you....I fell in love. This music has meant so much to me the last few days....especially "Little Island." Peter Viney wrote, in his review of this particular song, that it is "American folk and country melody." I agree and believe everyone should hear this song and will find it very comforting. Thank you so much Garth Hudson!

Posted on Thu Sep 13 20:34:07 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

Crabby: I could really use some good news these days, and I know where I can get it with your help.........NICKY LOVE! What happened to her??

Posted on Thu Sep 13 20:18:57 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

I for one hope that we never kill another person in anger or revenge. To be honest I would rather see complete disarmament and watch the war machines dismantled than to attack out of anger and fear.

That's what it is folks. All the anger in here is simply fear. Justifiably so, of course. I never felt the type of fear i felt Tuesday or even today as I walked back into The Sears Tower. I work on the 24th floor and the panic on people's face as we were being evacuated was unbelievable.

But no good will come through revenge. None whatsoever. We will simply add fuel to the fire. We will spin the vicious circle even harder until it is whirling at breakneck speed. No one will be safe.

"Give peace a chance"

We should begin world peace talks. We should immediately discuss universal disarmament. The worst is yet to come if we allow ourselves to be drawn into a larger conflict. The body count at the world trade center will be insignificant compared to the mounting dead if we continue this crime against humanity with vengeful acts.

Peace to all.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 20:08:50 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

Come you masters of war

You that build the big guns

You that build the death planes

You that build all the bombs

You that hide behind walls

You that hide behind desks

I just want you to know I can see through your masks

...

You that never have done nothin' but build to destroy

You play with my world like it's your little toy

You put a gun in my hand then you hide from my eyes

Then you turn and run farther when the fast bullets fly

...

Like Judas of old you lie and deceive

A world war can't be won, and you want me to believe

But I see through your eyes and I see through your brain

Like I see through the water that runs down my drain

...

You that fasten all the triggers for the others to fire

Then you sit back and watch while the death count gets higher

You hide in your mansions while the young people's blood

Flows out of their bodies and gets buried in the mud

...

You've thrown the worst fear that can ever be hurled

Fear to bring children into the world

For threatening my baby, unborn and unnamed

You ain't worth the blood that runs in your veins

...

How much do I know to talk out of turn

You might say that I'm young, you might say I'm unlearned

But there's one thing I know, though I'm younger than you

Even Jesus would never forgive what you do

...

Let me ask you one question: is your money that good?

Will it buy you forgiveness? Do you think that it could?

I think you will find when your death takes its toll

All the money you made won't ever buy back your soul

...

And I hope that you die and your death will come soon

I'll follow your casket through the pale afternoon

And I'll watch while you're lowered into your death bed

Then I'll stand over your grave till I'm sure that you're dead

Posted on Thu Sep 13 20:06:35 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-td041.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.166)

bob wigo

To my fellow GBers:

I apologize for allowing my emotions to get the better of me over the past two days. This is an extremely difficult time for all of us and I never intended to add to that. Peace to all of you.

Please pray for Larry Senko and his family.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 20:06:04 CEST 2001 from wwwcache.lanl.gov (128.165.156.80)

fellow GB citizen

THE POET C.K. WILLIAMS CAME TO MISSOULA some years ago and spoke of "narrative dysfunction" as a prime part of mental illness in our time.Many of us, he said, lose track of the story of ourselves, the story which tells us who we are supposed to be and how we are supposed to act.

It isn't any fun, and doesn't just happen to people, it happens to entire societies. Stories are places to live, inside the imagination. We know a lot of them, and we're in trouble when we don't know which one is ours.Or when the one we inhabit doesn't work anymore, and we stick with it anyway.

We live in stories. What we are is stories. We do things because of what is called character, and our character is formed by the stories we learn to live in. Late in the night we listen to our own breathing in the dark, and rework our stories. We do it again the next morning, and all day long, before the looking glass of ourselves, reinventing reasons for our lives. Other than such storytelling there is no reason to things.

We figure and find stories, which can be thought of as maps or paradigms in which we see our purposes defined, then the world drifts and our maps don't work anymore, our paradigm and stories fail, and we have to reinvent our understandings, and our reasons for doing things. Useful stories, I think, are radical in that they help us see freshly. That's what stories are for, to help us see for ourselves as we go about the continual business of reimagining ourselves. If we ignore the changing world, and stick to some story too long we are likely to find ourselves in a great wreck.

We inhabit a complex culture that is intimately connected to all societies all over the world, vividly wealthy while increasingly polarized between rich and poor, increasingly multi-ethnic and multiracial, predominantly urban, sexually ambiguous, ironic, self-reflexive, drug-crazed, dangerous, and resounding with discordant energies, a selfish inhumane society without a coherent message to inhabit, a society coming unglued, a democracy that is failing. Its citizens do not believe in it anymore, they don't vote, they withdraw from the processes of governing themselves. On C-SPAN, all day long, you will see the other end of that same society, privileged long-faced citizens trying to figure out what to do about our trouble without forgoing their privileges. You will see a society without much idea of how to proceed.

What we need most urgently, in both the West and all over America, is a fresh dream of who we are, which will tell us how we should act, a set of stories to reassure us in our sense that we deserve to be loved. We began to die of pointlessness when we are isolated, even if some of us can hang on for a long while, connected to nothing beyond our imaginations.

We need to inhabit stories that encourage us to pay close attention, that will encourage us toward acts of the imagination which in turn will drive us to the arts of empathy, for each other and the world. We need stories that will encourage us to understand that we are part of everything, that the world exists under our skins, and destroying it is a way of killing ourselves.

We need stories that will drive us to care for one another and the world. We need stories that will drive us to take action. We need stories that tell us reasons why taking care, why compassion and humane treatment of our fellows is more important than feathering our own nests as we go on accumulating property and power. William Kittredge

Posted on Thu Sep 13 19:59:00 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

American Tune (copyright 1973, Paul Simon

Many's the time I've been mistaken
And many times confused
Yes, and I've often felt forsaken and certainly misused
Ah, but I'm all right, I'm all right
I'm just weary to my bones
Still, you don't expect to be bright and bon vivant
So far away from home
So far away from home

And I don't know a soul who's not been battered,
I don't have a friend who feels at ease
I don't know a dream that's not been shattered or driven to its knees
But it's all right, it's all right
For we lived so well so long
Still, when I think of the road we're traveling on
I wonder what's gone wrong
I can't help it, I wonder what's gone wrong

And I dreamed I was dying
I dreamed that my soul rose unexpectedly
And looking back down at me
Smiled reassuringly
And I dreamed I was flying
And high up above, my eyes could clearly see
The Statue of Liberty
Sailing away to sea
And I dreamed I was flying

We come on the ship they call the Mayflower
We come on the ship that sailed the moon
We come in the age's most uncertain hour and sing an American tune
But it's all right, it's all right, it's all right
You can't be forever blessed
Still, tomorrow's going to be another working day
And I'm trying to get some rest
That's all, I'm trying to get some rest

Posted on Thu Sep 13 19:55:41 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

Bob has a way of bringing it all back home.

Oh, the first World War, well it came and it went

And the reason for fighting I never did get

But I learned to accept it, accept it with pride

For you don't count the dead with God on your side

When the second World War came to an end

We forgave the Germans and then we were friends

Though they murdered six million, in the ovens they fried

The Germans now too have God on their side

I've learned to hate Russians all through my whole life

If another war comes, it's them we must fight

To hate them and fear them, to run and to hide

And accept it all bravely with God on our side

But now we've got weapons of the chemical dust

If fire them we're forced to, then fire them we must

One push of the button and a shot the world wide

And you never ask questions with God on your side

In many a dark hour I've been thinking about this

That Jesus Christ was betrayed by a kiss

But I can't think for you, you'll have to decide

Whether Judas Iscariot had God on his side

So now as I'm leaving, I'm weary as hell

The confusion I'm feeling, ain't no tongue can tell

The words fill my head and fall to the floor

If God's on our side, He'll stop the next war

Posted on Thu Sep 13 19:41:10 CEST 2001 from pub31.lrc.swt.edu (147.26.108.145)

Pehr

Thanks Jan for the forum. It's helped me. I appreciate the recent posts by Peter V., John D. and Pat B. in particular.

The squabbling about this is sad. Crabby I appreciate your views and posts, but I dont think mocking peoples need for having a God or a spiritual faith is in very good taste. Please think about that while you are thinking, or encouraging us to think. nothing personal, dude.

My heart hurts more and more, these waves of twisted colors bring me gently, subtly lower, lower. I keep thinking I've hit bottom, only to throb down, down.

I look at it to see whats the matter, and I see my own faults, and anger and my own expressions of it. I've contributed to the conflict in the world in my way too. Its so terrible, lets try to be patient and careful with each other, whether we pray or not, whether we like the president or not.

We live in an incredible world, all of us. This world operates on many levels, and the wisest of us still has a very limited perspective and a mind ill equipped to judge it. Terrible things like Evil, Racism, Fear are part of the experience, it is a reality we face.

I forgot what else, as often. I hope we can be gentler with each other here. We can think of Compassion or think of Revenge and vibrate at frequencies in between in all the confusion. But most importantly we can choose to be conscious or unconscious.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 19:39:52 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

Nobody told me there'd be days like these...

Nobody told me there'd be days like these...

Strange Days indeed...most peculiar momma

Lennon

Posted on Thu Sep 13 19:34:06 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

We have suffered grievous wounds that I'm afraid will never heal. A great many have lost loved ones, and very few have not been affected in some way or another by this horrible series of events. We are all wondering what can be done. There are no simple solutions; no easy course to follow. As terrible as these last few days have been, it's going to be an even harder road to follow from here on out. At times like these, we all need to put our differences aside and unite for a common purpose. Let us stand together and help each other through these difficult times.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 19:19:26 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

JTULL Fan

Terrorists commit these evil acts to gain understanding and attention to their cause. By trying to sympathize with them is to grant them that which they are seeking in their murderous acts. Therefore, the need to understand them is limited to that which brings their demise. TWILIGHT: I am no more of a Jethro Tull fan than I am a Band Fan or A Dylan Fan, among others. The name is just what I chose to post with here. If I chose Danko Fan or Hudson Fan, would you be as disengenious with your rants at me? And yes, I do have a 'terrorist' problem; it ocurred yesterday. You wish to ridicule me as 'corporate' and 'cubicle' bound? Well, so were those people who perished. it may be a surprise to you, but many of us corporate cubicle dwellers do so to feed and shelter families and to aid elderly parents. We don't all have the luxury of being some ivory-tower barefoot piss-in the woods bark-eating dope-smoking unwashed hippie jackass, as we have responsibilities to our families.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 19:06:49 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

Hey Folks let's just talk about music:

This ain't no party, this ain't no disco,

this ain't no fooling around

This ain't no mudd club, or C. B. G. B.,

I ain't got time for that now

Heard about Houston? Heard about Detroit?

Heard about Pittsburgh, P. A.?

You oughta know not to stand by the window

somebody might see you up there

I got some groceries, some peant butter,

to last a couple of days

But I ain't got no speakers, ain't got no

headphones, ain't got no records to play

or...

We are vain and we are blind

I hate people when their not polite

Talking Heads

Posted on Thu Sep 13 18:24:58 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-td051.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.171)

bob wigo

To fellow GBers in NYC and to anyone who could possibly pass this along to someone there:

A friend of my daughter's is missing. His name is Larry Senko. Age 35. He is 6'0" tall and approximately 240 lbs. Dark brown hair. Brown eyes. Dark complexion. His wife, his soon to be two year old son and his home are in Yardley, Pennsylvania. He is an employee of Alliance Consulting. He contacted his wife via cell phone immediately after the first plane hit the WTC. He was still in the building at that point.

We are desperately holding on to the hope that somehow he has survived and is in a New York city hospital unidentified.

May the no good sons of bitches who did this burn in hell for all eternity.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 17:14:51 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Gore has a beard!! How many members of the Band wore a beard????? Just received an E from FLA.!! Instructed to pass on to 10 people....re. wearing red, white, and blue on 9/14 to show support for NYC!!!!

Posted on Thu Sep 13 16:58:08 CEST 2001 from (12.33.178.35)

twilight

Bless the bravery of all the men & women who have been working around the clock to aid those who have suffered during this crisis. Our crew may be heading out on one of these weekends if we are needed. Hearing the wonderful stories of true bravery in light of the circumstances can be overwhelming and fulfilling at the same time. It's been inspiring to hear from the GBookers who have remained calm and can post without using capital letters. We can be fairly certain that Aqualung will continue to bellow from his cubicle, convinced that his arguments are "new" and "appropriate", while others are "old" and "innapropriate". He is the "rational" one who feels that he can demand apologies and shame others for reasons we can all comprehend, but might be afraid to broach. He wants to "exterminate" those responsible for this act. Sounds like he suffers from some form of terrorism. Hank - The new Bob Dylan does rock - thanks for your thoughtful insights as well.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 16:56:17 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.116.195.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.116.195)

Pat Brennan

Exterminating terrorists and terrorism can not happen unless we have full knowledge of who they are and why they do what they do. Such knowledge will help neutralize them. But, more importantly, such knowledge can help us come to grips with their anger. Remember, we call these people thugs, cowards, and bastards, but they were intelligent enough, creative enough, and dedicated enough to accomplish the unthinkable. Writing them off with angry words puts you at a disadvantage in dealing with them.

I don't think you can underestimate the power of a billionaire like bin Laden. Removing him and his money will help eliminate the financial strength behind much of today's international terrorism.

There are indeed tremendous ironies all over the board.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 16:40:03 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-td031.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.161)

bob wigo

Let's lighten the mood a little.

Who can link Al Gore to The Band in only one move ?

Posted on Thu Sep 13 16:15:26 CEST 2001 from 1cust129.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.129)

rollie

JTULLs POST-----Rollie, you must not have read my earlier post. There is NO NEED to understand these bastards beyond what it takes to E X T E R M I N A T E them. Your 'stole the election argument' is old, trite, and innappropriate at this time. HELLO JTULL I would agree with your point about ridiculing GB at this point. That was printed in anger and in haste. We may never understand the mind of a lunatic,although much has been discussed on the news with people who have studied these terrorists and have said that most tend to be well educated and,"not crazy". But to not see our role in this , and to just say ,"let's blow the bastards up"sweeps the root of the problem under the rug. I lost friends in those buildings. I know REAL,FUCKING hatred. (Carmen).We better try to start understanding what the hell is happening, andwhy the U.S. is so hated around the globe(Peter Jennings,from ABC ,who has traveled and reported extensively,touched on this last night)or this type of thing will only end when our planet ends.(The most likely scenario)---------Yours in attempting to understand,R

Posted on Thu Sep 13 15:50:15 CEST 2001 from i153-022.nv.iinet.net.au (203.59.153.22)

Nancy

While spirited debate about the terrorist attacks against America is both inevitable and desirable in this forum, I have found the expression of some opinions *insensitive* at this time. American GB'ers are hurting and feeling angry. Any kind of criticism, no matter how eloquent or cleverly worded will cause further pain and anger, and I personally feel our American friends deserve space and understanding while they come to grips with this tragedy. I could draw a parallel between the negative things said about America here in the last 24 hours, to someone going to a neighbours funeral and interjecting condolences with comments about the worst excesses of the deceased person. While I apologise for the number of times the word "I" has appeared in this post, it is essentially MY opinion and may have little to do with what anyone else feels (there I've vented and I feel better!)

Additional information for Rod of NZ: the Federal Court here has handed down the decision that the 150 Afganis you mentioned earlier will now come to Australia for processing, along with the 300 others seeking asylum. The Taliban presently has two Western Australians imprisoned for the heinous crime of spreading Christianity. If convicted they may well face the death penalty by hanging.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 15:35:15 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

HANK from CORK!!! YA, hit the nail on the noggin, bro!! What do we do now!!! Getting a Huessain and/or Ben Laden won't mean a thing!!! Now that we are so technical(soft) as a society..can we survive a long hall!! I was never into,.. arm yourself to the hilt,....but as the F-16's fly overhead..I'm thinking.....the terrorists are here, now! Hoping for the best for those with family and friends in NYC!!! The military forces may do damage to enemy nation states from a distance, but....as seen by the recent terrorist act in NYC.....this won't be a picnic at home!!! Really, just disappointed and down!! This may boil down to one ideology vs another, and there won't be any stopping till one or the other no longer exists!!!! Sad part is, if half of the enemy(whoever that is) wants to quit....what price would there leaders make them pay!!!! What a crock a shit!!!!

Posted on Thu Sep 13 14:01:21 CEST 2001 from cl3017108-b.mdsn1.wi.home.com (65.3.255.9)

Tim(SUNDOG)Corcoran

"Who is to say what is real & what is fantasy. Again it's all a matter of perceptions & interpretations." These are your words. My perception is that you felt comfortable posting VERY disturbing pictures of Rick just after his death((**Dear Dr. Pepper,,those pictures were post before Ricks untimely death, and I'd post 'em again if possible cuz I love the man and what he brought to this world, which is more than I can you have.)) (which you were in) and then did again just to disturb people further (or maybe I should have said FURTHUR) and now you want to make a morbid joke about Tuesday.((I didn't make a joke about Tuesday,,your putting words in my mouth)) The Rick pics were a joke.((No,,the Rick pictures weren't a joke,,your the joke,,can you see me laughing?)) Didn't understand. I apologize. YOU ARE A FUNNY GUY! ((Whats funny is that you've done nothing for no one,,and have little or no life in yourself. If you don't have anything nice to say,,then bite it)) I apologize to my friends here,,you know who you are. I love music,,and the persons(your rock stars)who make it. I love making people smile,,but I won't let people talk smack to me,,especialy when they don't even know me.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 13:40:43 CEST 2001 from spider-wo043.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.38)

JTULL FAn

Rollie, you must not have read my earlier post. There is NO NEED to understnad these bastards beyond what it takes to E X T E R M I N A T E them. Your 'stole the election argument' is old, trite, and innappropriate at this time.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 13:28:43 CEST 2001 from spider-wb012.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.152)

Rick S.

Happy Birthday to my pal, Bashful Bill. Welcome to the Club (?). Hope you're cranking up your Blues music. Enjoy your day.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 13:21:32 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp153.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.153)

Diamond Lil

First and foremost, thanks to Jan for allowing this forum to be used as an emotional outlet for so many of us the past 2 days. I've been pretty much silently reading eveything, and find myself agreeing with almost something in every post, and disagreeing with something in almost every post. It's rather mind-boggling to say the least. The only comment I can make it that I wish for peace.

Peter: Thanks for that uplifting addition to your last post. I guess one knows they have reached the pinnacle of parenthood when one's child admits that they knew that parents would come in handy for something someday. I needed that smile :-)

Happy Birthday Bill! (I loved your post Caron!)

Wishing everyone here a better today...

Posted on Thu Sep 13 13:18:37 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp262052.sympatico.ca (64.230.33.229)

brown eyed girl

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BASHFUL BILL!

Great Birthday post by Caron.....I guess ya really know each other...... :-D

"How to dominate reality
love is one way
imagination is another"

Since you're an Emmylou fan.....just wanted to remind you in case you didn't already have these songs......"Pale Blue Eyes" Cheryl Crow and Emmylou Harris (live) by Louuuuu Reed and VU........."Blue Eyed Jane" by Dylan (House Of Blues 1996) with Emmylou????

Pat: Van's rendition of Dylan's "Just Like A Woman".......soooooooo fine!!!!!

Posted on Thu Sep 13 13:11:51 CEST 2001 from (205.245.52.66)

carmen

For all you people looking to blame someone and for those attempting to argue to moral equivalent points against america, go fuck yourselves. Over 30,000 people are estimated dead. Dead because they woke up and went to work. Our response to this act will be justified and it better make some teeth rattle across the world.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 12:35:32 CEST 2001 from syr-24-169-189-83.twcny.rr.com (24.169.189.83)

Caron

Hey Bashful Bill, what do you know. It's time you hit the BIG 5-0.It makes no difference, have no tears of rage. Life is a carnival, so turn the page. Everything is right as rain, as we ride this mystery train. Let the weight be lifted you're not livin' in a dream, No rockin' chair for you love just cake and ice cream Don't worry honey I won't get stage fright. I'll be up on crippled creek tonight So, when you awake, don't get up Jake... just share you're love with me Happy Birthday Honey, All my love, Caron

Posted on Thu Sep 13 12:04:49 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-147.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.147)

Peter Viney

Can I repeat what someone posted yesterday? Thank you to Jan for maintaining this forum which in these special circumstances has veered so far from its aims, but has provided an opportunity for people to communicate their feelings.

The Nostradamus quote is doing the rounds here as well. Interestingly, here the text has been “the two hollow mountains” in “the new city”. Elsewhere we have ‘york’ and ‘big city.’ Seems a bit inconclusive to me! Unless it’s a different bit.

On a lighter note, my daughter phoned late last night and woke me up. She said she had a serious question. Struggling into alertness, I braced myself for it. “Dad, what’s the title of that Cat Stevens song that Boyzone covered?’ ‘Uh, … ‘Father and Son.’ ‘Thanks. It’s been driving me mad trying to remember. I knew you’d be useful for something one day.’ Thus detailed memory of irrelevant music trivia is finally valued.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 09:54:38 CEST 2001 from a010-0068.blgs.splitrock.net (209.254.61.68)

Jack Straw

"Farewell Angelina
The bells of the crown
Are being stolen by bandits
I must follow the sound
The triangle tingles
And the trumpet play slow
Farewell Angelina
The sky is on fire
And I must go.


There's no need for anger
There's no need for blame
There's nothing to prove
Ev'rything's still the same
Just a table standing empty
By the edge of the sea
Farewell Angelina
The sky is trembling
And I must leave.


The jacks and queens
Have forsaked the courtyard
Fifty-two gypsies
Now file past the guards
In the space where the deuce
And the ace once ran wild
Farewell Angelina
The sky is folding
I'll see you in a while.


See the cross-eyed pirates sitting
Perched in the sun
Shooting tin cans
With a sawed-off shotgun
And the neighbors they clap
And they cheer with each blast
Farewell Angelina
The sky's changing color
And I must leave fast.


King Kong, little elves
On the rooftoops they dance
Valentino-type tangos
While the make-up man's hands
Shut the eyes of the dead
Not to embarrass anyone
Farewell Angelina
The sky is embarrassed
And I must be gone.


The machine guns are roaring
The puppets heave rocks
The fiends nail time bombs
To the hands of the clocks
Call me any name you like
I will never deny it
Farewell Angelina
The sky is erupting
I must go where it's quiet."

Posted on Thu Sep 13 08:22:53 CEST 2001 from spider-wn063.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.178)

Joe

According to "Tweeter Center's" website.....Saturday's Sept. 15th Barn Burner show with B.B. King and others has been postponed.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 07:55:00 CEST 2001 from 1cust49.tnt2.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.25.9.49)

rollie

Embassy bombings.Trade Towers.Where will it stop Ben?Listening to George Bush talk about those who would destroy democracy is a cruel and sick joke..........Since when did he ever give a rats ass about democracy...."we stole the election fair and square.." There's two sides to this coin. I'm sympathetic to neither at this point.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 07:11:32 CEST 2001 from syr-24-24-5-34.twcny.rr.com (24.24.5.34)

Dr Pepper

"Who is to say what is real & what is fantasy. Again it's all a matter of perceptions & interpretations." These are your words. My perception is that you felt comfortable posting VERY disturbing pictures of Rick just after his death (which you were in) and then did again just to disturb people further (or maybe I should have said FURTHUR) and now you want to make a morbid joke about Tuesday. The Rick pics were a joke. Didn't understand. I apologize. YOU ARE A FUNNY GUY!

Posted on Thu Sep 13 06:47:45 CEST 2001 from spider-wn081.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.186)

Ben Pike

I will generaly only mix it up about politics here in the music room if provoked. I will make this one post and leave it at that. A few years back The President Of The United States, acting on the advise of the defence dept., tryed to chase down the people who had bombed American Embassys, who may well be the same people resposable for our current horror. He was roundly ridaculed as trying to "wag the dog" over a sex "scandel" that involved him fooling around with a consenting adult, and lying about it in a baseless nusance suit bankrolled by his political enimies. His bombing was open ridaculed as "Murder", his motives vile, his targets innocent. But there were no more embassy bombings. For the past three months the news media has thrown it's full weight behind the "story" of a congressmen who had sex with a girl who disapeared. As was so often the case with Clinton, empty slurs abounded, right wing "moralists" cackled, and those rolling around in the mud were the most passionate in their moral authority to do so. Little attention was paid to a bi partisan report issued on terrorism issued in January, which pretty much called this whole thing. Maybe because it was cowritten by Gary Hart, and we had already gufawed enough about his sex life. Now the "left", as it should, is rallying around The President. Who knows what a moticum of this from the right, even out of purfunctory sense of what is good for the country, might have accomplished a few years back. We have become a country of late night comedy smirkers, and we just got the wake up call. Or, you might say "There are many here among us, who feel that life is but a joke, but you and I have been through that, and this is not our fate...." Thanks for your indulgence.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 06:46:59 CEST 2001 from syr-24-24-5-34.twcny.rr.com (24.24.5.34)

Dr Pepper

Here is one for those of you that don't want innocent people and innocent children killed in retaliation: Why do you think that DisneyWorld was closed on Tuesday? How would you like to crawl into that "person's" mind? They attack and then hide behind their own children. Hussein used to use children to walk through mine fields. Maybe we should try to reason with these people and have a big singalong with Pete Seeger. Did Pete ever sing "Blowin in the Wind"? It will take on a much deeper meaning. Thinking about moving my family to North Dakota. Will they take Roman Catholics there?

Posted on Thu Sep 13 06:44:24 CEST 2001 from cl3017108-b.mdsn1.wi.home.com (65.3.255.9)

Tim(SUNDOG)Corcoran

Nostradamus was most likely a time traveler or alien, & he could only predict things in the language of the time from wence he began. Who is to say what is real & what is fantasy. Again it's all a matter of perceptions & interpretations. What WILL be interesting is to see what the "Bush Boys" (son & father) will do about all this. I honestly believe Duhb'ya doesn't do anything without first talking to "Daddy" & brother Jeb! Thanks Vicky.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 06:30:26 CEST 2001 from cl3017108-b.mdsn1.wi.home.com (65.3.255.9)

Tim(SUNDOG)Corcoran

Hey everyone,,I put that on as a joke. To many people are going overbroard and attacking one an other on their opinions on this GB. So I put that up as a joke, nothing more than a f**k'n joke. Lighten up people..

Posted on Thu Sep 13 05:56:03 CEST 2001 from spider-th044.proxy.aol.com (152.163.213.64)

Brien Sz

Got out of the house today. Had to head down to central New Jersey. As i crossed over the Driscol Bridge (Main bridge that connects central Jersey with north Jersey) on the Garden State Parkway I could still see smoke coming up from where the WTC stood. As i drove south, a (not kidding) long thin purple haze stretched out heading south. It was strange but must have been dust from the destruction. Also of note. Driving in this region it is next to impossible to not see a plane - Today, the sky was clear, blue and empty - no contrails, nothing. It was strange. I still cannot believe what has happened.

On another note; a friend of ours cousin worked on the 90th floor of the WTC -he is ok - was at the doctors for a morning appointment.

Commenting on what we should do is almost moote(sic?)What i want and what will be done, I'm sure will be two different things but i believe we can no longer be soft as i have felt we have for far too long. As far as folks with religious hang-ups.., it's a waste of energy - good, bad or indifferent, it's here to stay - it's like talking about the fued - a waste of time.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 05:45:16 CEST 2001 from 1cust195.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.195)

rollie

I thought we didn't discuss politics in this guestbook. Do we agree that violence begets violence, and that the only solution to this nightmare is for Americans to begin to understand why these people did this in the first place?

Posted on Thu Sep 13 05:41:56 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tj012.proxy.aol.com (64.12.106.22)

franko

"Man, man, your time is sand, your ways are leaves upon the sea."

"I am the eyes of Nostradamus, all your ways are known to me."

Al Stewart, from the song Nostradamus of one of my favorite records, Past, Present, and Future (recommended before, by me, in this very GB).

Sundog's quote was written more recently, in 1990, by someone named Neil Marshall. It has been flying around and subsequently refuted all over the web today, check alt.prophecies or the urbanlegends.com website.

Bob, Sup, Crabby, et al, in my view there is some (much) truth in all that you say. Like everyone else, I have been trying to make sense of the sensless for a day and a half, trying to explain the unexplainable to children old enough to understand what happened but too young to have any appreciation for how their lives have been forever altered. I feel certain of a few things. 1)ideologically, the US has taken a few steps to the right today. Tonight, Geraldo Rivera sounded like Rush Limbaugh on his best, or worst, depending on where you sit, day. 2) The US will blow something to smithereens - and soon 3) Not all, but oh, say 99.99% of Americans will support the smithereening 4) Americans have forever lost some freedoms and rights, we just don't know which ones yet.

Time to return to Lurkerville...

Posted on Thu Sep 13 05:13:45 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.208.64.243.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.64.243)

Pat Brennan

Everyone, please take note. I just copied this off a Nostradamus site:

The following quatrain has been circulating the Internet after the WTC bombings.

In the City of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will sucumb. The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.

It is NOT by Nostradamus.The original source may be http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm. Here is a short excerpt from that page.

How does this apply to Nostradamus? Well I will show you... If I make say a thousand prophecies that are fairly abstract for example: In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb

Well let us analyse this. For Example what does City of God mean? It could be Mecca, Medina, Rome, Jeruselum, Salt Lake City, or any holy city depending on your religion. What do I mean by thunder--a storm? War? EarthQuake? lots of stuff can be described by thunder. There are a lot of two brothers on this world (I think the Number runs among the Billions) and fortress edure's what--Besiegement, Famine, etc? What Great Leader? How will he succumb? To what?

Posted on Thu Sep 13 05:03:52 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Tim, everyone, the Nostradamus quote mentioned is a hoax.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 04:39:20 CEST 2001 from as3-1-14.hip.berkeley.edu (136.152.193.192)

Dave Hopkins

I want to thank Pat Brennan, Peter Viney and John Donabie in particular for their very thoughtful posts. Obviously this is the type of event which nobody can fully make sense of. I continue to believe, personally, that the USA's diversity and willingness to welcome people from all over the world continues to be not a weakness, but one of its greatest strengths.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 04:32:22 CEST 2001 from mat-7-24.enter.net (207.16.156.80)

Little Brøther

No one likes us, I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down...
Let's drop the Big One, and see what happens

We give them money, but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us, so let's surprise 'em
We'll drop the Big One, and pulverize 'em...

--Randy Newman, "Political Science"

At first, it was comforting to read the supportive postings from our friends outside America. Some were a tad effusive, but that happens when emotions are ratcheted up. But then, in my opinion, overtones of shrill jingoism and xenophobia began to dominate the mix.

I may wind up getting punched in my Third Eye, but to me the tension in this GB reflects the truth that America, like all powerful nations, has a split personality.

I'm reminded exactly of that phase in the movie where Mr. Hyde takes control at night and goes out and does dastardly deeds. Then in the morning Dr. Jekyll awakes with no memory of what "he" did. Jekyll, remember, is not only a good, decent man-- he's a philanthropist, a distinguished scientist, a pillar of the community.

When rumor of misdeed is brought to his door by persons of low or unknown repute, remote from his social circle and peers, of course Jekyll will repudiate them. He's not without a conscience, though, and may be mysteriously troubled. But ensconced in bedroom or study, gazing in his crystal mirror, surrounded by well-earned comforts and affluence, he can't or won't enlarge the cracks of uneasiness. And if some victim throws a brick through his window, he'll feel himself altogether wronged.

Well, the rest of the story doesn't come into this analogy. The affairs of nations are way more complicated than a moral melodrama about a single man. But I do think this comparison echoes the implicit dichotomy of whether America is a big-hearted, generous, selfless, noble country or a scheming, self-serving, amoral, imperious predator.

The answer, my friends, is blowin' in the wind-- and it is "yes".

(Check out the linked article for an interesting pinko take.)

That's why, Bob, with all due respect, it's not untoward that it's people from the smaller or far-flung countries who have trouble with your Jekyll-centric point of view. They've lived in or closer to the neighborhoods where Hyde prowls by night, and casts his long shadow.

None of this condones or justifies what was done, nor eliminates the question of what is to BE done. But since no self-appointed kamikaze decked the Statue of Liberty, is it fitting we do it ourselves? Short of hacksawing the continental perimeter, attaching Alaska and Hawaii with bungee cords, and blasting into space, which I doubt NASA could pull off, we're not in a position to climb into a nation-sized bunker, i.e. commit to some neo-isolationism, OR annex the rest of the world.

"Political Science"-- and "Shoot Out In Chinatown", for that matter-- are a lot of fun but not much use as a blueprint.

Notice how I worked the Band into this? Fancy that.

Peace, all.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 04:08:21 CEST 2001 from cfa1.execulink.net (199.166.6.10)

JL

Imagine theres no Countries, It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too. Imagine all the People, Living life in Peace

Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger, A brotherhood of man. Imagine all the People, Sharing all the world.

You may say I'm a dreamer, But I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us, and the World will be as One.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 04:04:06 CEST 2001 from dark-cas3-cs-4.dial.bright.net (216.201.10.108)

Ruth McD

Many thanks to you folks showing your support of the US at this dark hour. In reference to Sundogs quote from Nostrodamas, all I can say is Holy Shit! The music of the Band has been a salve for me through many personal tragedies, and is a relief during this world wide crisis. Thanks again to Robbie, Rick, Levon, Richard and Garth for this balm which is their music. Love and prayers ~ Ruth

Posted on Thu Sep 13 04:01:15 CEST 2001 from 210-55-236-20.static-dialup.xtra.co.nz (210.55.236.20)

Rod

Bob, New Zealand has just accepted a group of 150 refugees rescued from a boat heading for Australia. While we don't have the problem of people turning up uninvited on our door step we do take on a fair number of refugees for the size of our population.

I think everyone is outraged and upset by this terrible act of terrorism. It needs to be kept in mind though that like New Zealand, the US has always fought it's battles in other countries. This war will be different. I'm sure the Americans will strike back but then so to will the enemy. It is possible their will be an escalation in the type of attack. Like much of the rest of the world Americans will need to get use to wars being fought in their country.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 03:24:14 CEST 2001 from spider-wj071.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.51)

JTULL FAN

"Could you bring yourself for just one second to consider why someone would feel so strongly against the USA that they would commit suicide to attack it?" DIRECT QUOTE FROM AJR's post. ANSWER: NO! I have no interest in comprehending or understanding the minds of those behind yesterdays heinous acts. I wish to bring them to justice, which is execution (as Dulles Airport and the Pentagon are in Virginia, my state would apply this punishment swiftly should any Federal trial apply mere life in prison.) If these 'aggrieved parties'seek my attention, sympathy, and understanding, they can join the civilized world and use civilized means. So long as they continue to act in this vain, I am for hunting them down and killing them. Period. That said, I respect your opinions AJR, as well as Bob's, and also our friend in India. I deeply regret the actions against the Sikh's in NY. They are misguided and wrong. I have had the priviledge of having several Indian and Sikh friends and aquaintances and through them have gained the highest respect for them and their cultures. I cannot think of anything beyond honest disagreements that have come between America and these peoples. Let's remeber who the real enemies are guys and keep our focus. On a last thought and a premature one, I think the best memorial to the victims and symbol of defiance to such acts would be to REBUILD THE WORLD TRADE CENTERS! I am tired of the McVeighs and Bin Ladens of the world leaving a trail of memorials around the world. And as a last random thought: thank God and our justice system that Mr. McVeigh was not around to enjoy yesterdays events.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 03:26:13 CEST 2001 from cl3017108-b.mdsn1.wi.home.com (65.3.255.9)

Tim(SUNDOG)Corcoran

Nostradamus' prediction on WW3: "In the year of the new century and nine months, From the sky will come a great King of Terror... The sky will burn at forty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city..." "In the city of york there will be a great collapse, 2 twin brothers torn apart by chaos while the fortress falls the great leader will succumb third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - NOSTRADAMUS..... He said this will be bigger than the previous two. 2001 is the first year of the new century and this is the 9th month. New York is located at the 41st degree Latitude. This is something to think about.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 03:02:47 CEST 2001 from spider-wb061.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.176)

bob wigo

It never fails that someone can inject meanings into other's posts here and then run with the results. There is NO HATRED in what I am saying. I am not talking about eradication or anything resembling it. I condemn anyone who commits a hate crime against any race or creed in this country. I am not pointing the finger at persons of any particular nationality or religion. My point is this and this ONLY....We have been asked for the last two centuries to handle every major crisis on the planet in some way and have never failed to respond while issues here at home become more and more unmanageable. Please do not try to tell me that one has nothing to do with the other. We have held our doors open while countries around the globe force their very own to flee to the safety we provide. We have freely and openly accepted the responsibility to provide safe haven for countless victims of religious and governmental persecution. We have provided economic opportunity to every man, woman and child in this land.The strain of this noble commitment is enormous. Our incredible leniency has cost us dearly on every front. I believe it is time to concentrate on this country's issues, to heal from the inside out. We cannot play caretaker to the world while our house falls down around us. That is my point and I am standing by it.

This shows no animosity or disrespect and I resent AJR's "how dare you condescend" remark as well. Your pronounced sensitivities do not deem your comments more or less appropriate than mine. For that matter AJR, how dare you so much as mention atrocities such as apartheid in an attempt to underscore your obvious contempt for American politics? You cannot tie my comments to that horse, even with the fanciest of knots. I apologize, but I can't seem to recall the last time New Zealand stepped up to the plate. How many human beings are pouring into New Zealand on a daily basis in need of government funds to sustain themselves? You have no notion of the magnitude of the problem you are attempting to address.

I have respectfully disagreed with Supratik. I have openly apologized to anyone who may be offended by my views. I have stressed time and again that there is no hatred running through these thoughts. I find it interesting that the strongest opposition to my stance comes from places so very far removed from the issues we face every day.

There is nothing personal to be taken from any of this on either side of the issue. I will not apologize for being a realist in an age when far too many are far too concerned with the possibility of offending the sensibilities of people who offer nothing towards solving our problems.

The stark reality of an attack on my country less than one hundred miles from my front door and the loss of someone my family cares about has obviously sparked my emotions.I have said my piece on the issue.

Peace.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 03:02:01 CEST 2001 from (203.197.126.104)

Supratik

I just read this. This is so unfortunate.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 02:07:17 CEST 2001 from 2cust96.tnt30.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.42.157.224)

Crabgrass

Religious conviction has been responsible for the perpetration of countless human against human atrocities ever since man created God.

Check the news, read the history books.

Is the God that everyone is praying to and taking solace in the same God who yesterday welcomed the suicidal hijackers into Seventh Heaven with open arms?

Is the God who will be profusely thanked for a what will be proclaimed a "miracle" when someone is pulled from the twisted concrete and steel remains of the Twin Towers losing only two legs and one arm ("Thank God he's alive!!") the same Almighty and Omnipotent God who permitted the heinous act to take place without intervening?

And is this the same God of the Old Testament whose direct intervention and wrath destroyed complete cities killing all men, women, and children?

Think.

Think.

And think some more.

BTW "Roman Catholic" was missing from McVeigh's stats. The Church waved a magic wand dipped in Holy Water over him before the execution and now he's got some like-minded buddies from Tuesday's gruesome events for company up there in Paradise.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 02:05:48 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-118-195.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.118.195)

BWNWITennessee

I got another e-mail that said, "Hi, I sent this file for your advice. Thanks." The subject was "Burgular Alarm." Anyone else? Don't open it, obviously.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 02:03:59 CEST 2001 from spider-to043.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.63)

Gtago Dami

My family members are ok. Many friends of theirs have perished, sadly. My family has had to go elsewhere from their home as they live so close to PLO they are afraid of retaliation towards anyone from the Middle East. They also live close to the Synogogue on 5th Ave. and are terribly frightened. I hope my 10 yr.old nephew can learn that violence and revenge solve nothing and that he listens to his family and spiritual advisors and not the hysterical press who are taunting for retribution. Sad indeed for all young people. Let's please teach them well and be examples of how civilized people conduct themselves.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 02:00:36 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-118-195.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.118.195)

BWNWITennessee

I think it's important to note what Peter said - there were people killed yesterday from many, many countries, and there are probably people in almost every country in the world who have lost distant relatives, friends and acquaintances, and friends of friends. We've already seen on the Guestbook, as well as on the Nashville news, people whose co-worker's cousins or friends or the neighbors in-laws were involved in this. My boss' daughter's classmate's uncle was scheduled to fly one of the planes that crashed in New York, and was rescheduled a few hours before the flight (which I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned on the news yet). This might seem kind of distant, but it didn't when my boss was telling me about her daughter's classmate freaking out because he thought his uncle was flying one of the hijacked planes. While this obviously doesn't has the emotional impact of losing immediate family members, my point is that there are millions of people across the entire world who will feel this closer than they might have ever expected to. This was no more a tragedy solely for America than it was a tragedy solely for New York City. It's a tragedy for mankind.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 01:19:46 CEST 2001 from spider-we011.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.21)

calvin

Bob, I know your talking out of some anger now, but I have a problem with the concept of return all the legal immagrants. As of when? My family arrivd in the 1890s, I'm sure there are several people on this GB whose parents where not native born. In a real sense everybody but the NAtive Americans are immigrants, right now I fear for the hard working Arab-Americans who are solid citizens in our country, I fear for the safety by people who want to get those "towel-heads." And the people I;ve heard that want to turn all the Middle-East into a parking lot, My God that firghtens me. As for closing the border, isolationism never really works, got us in deep soup in WW11. I understand where supratik is coming from, this fanatic we believe to be behind this madness was basically started on the path he is on by the US who during the Carter and Reagan administraions armed him to the teeth and gave him a ton of money because at the time he was fighting the RUssians. There is no justification for what these men did, but our goverment needs to understand that we cannot keep picking up snakes and not expect them to eventually attack us. I agree with you Bob, we should pull back from some of our deep involvement in world politics, because frankly they dont want us there. But all this is actually pointless nitpicking, their is no justification for this kind of act, find the men responsible, take care of them in way that shows those kind of madmen that the world will not tolerate this kind of, God, I cant even find a word to describe it. In many ways though I've been incredibly impressed by the American people over the last 2 days. The way New Yorkers stayed calm and really helped each other was awe inspiring, the way hospitals across the country have been overrun by people wanting to give blood has been a credit to us, I know several NYers who basically hitchhiked home to Brooklyn from Manhattan, rides were always available-a little thing you might say-but frankly I wouldn't have been suprised if every man for himself chaos has ensued. Instead, in a moment of great tragedy, I saw an incredible outpouring of human decency, In way this terrible event has strengthened my faith in my fellow man.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 01:10:25 CEST 2001 from (203.197.126.104)

Yazoo

I hope so too, Pat. :-)

sup

PS. Dunno why but I have been listening to Amused to Death all night. Its 4:30 in the morning here.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 01:09:54 CEST 2001 from 203-79-98-140.tnt13.paradise.net.nz (203.79.98.140)

ajr

Wigo, you surprise me.I thought you were an educated man.How dare you condescend to Supratik like that.

Hey, maybe you could make all those non Americans you are currently stuck with wear special armbands, or carry pass books to be in non designated areas just as black South Africans had to, or have different coloured license plates just like Palistinians in Israel have to? In fact America supported apartheid in South Africa, didn't they? And they are supporting Israel too, aren't they? I wonder- Could you bring yourself for just one second to consider why someone would feel so strongly against the USA that they would commit suicide to attack it?

I cried yesterday when I heard the news and watched the footage. I'm still waiting to hear if a cousin of mine who lives and works in Manhattan made it. It was a horrible, terrible, atrocity that happened and I utterly and completely condemn it and feel nothing but sorrow for the victims.But you know I cried when I watch the bombing of Baghdad. And I cried when I heard the effect that MEDICAL sanctions were having on the ordinary people and the children of Iraq.

I think I'm checking out of this GB for a few days now. I apologise for this post which I know has no place here.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 01:06:15 CEST 2001 from (203.197.126.104)

Supratik

Dear Bob,

Never meant to offend you......but I guess the times are like that. The Americans have suffered and the guilty should be punished.

However.......I do still contend that US has poked its head into places where it was not needed. Not the last 200 years as far as I know......only the last 60 years or so. The US has its role to play....but it should not overplay it. There will always be people who will want the US to poke their head but the US should be wiser ! Otherwise what you are left is the Bay of Pigs and Vietnam. Don't always look from your point of view.......look at how the others also view the situation. Nobody wants a Big Brother today. You haven't refuted my take on the origins of bin Laden and the Taliban.

Nobody faces extinction if the US closes its doors. The world has always survived. The world will also survive without humanity as it has done before. But the point is that the US if it has to throw out its immigrants, it will have to throw out everybody who came after 1492 (as my family was thrown out of Bangladesh in 1947 for being Hindu). The prosperity of US lies due to its immigrants......like the man who has influenced me most, Richard Feynman or others like Gellmann, Norbert Weiner, Von Neumann, Einstein? Joseph Pulitzer ? Weren't the Kennedys also immigrants ? Focus on the guilty please......do not make generalised statements. Its the high-handed views on immigrants that annoys me most.

I trust you still haven't found out about the number of Indian tribes made extinct ? Who are the originals and who are the settlers and the immigrants ? Acadian Driftwood ?

I study in a management institute that is considered one of the better ones in the Asia-Pacific region. We study all about the WTO and the GATT and many other economy related subjects. The US does not emerge as the hero in its performance in such forums at least as far as the developing nations are concerned. Do not jump into pre-conceived notions before making far-sweeping statements. The US only became powerful after WWII, and that also due to the sudden change in world order then. Previous to that even the American government was not much bothered with the rest of the world. The US never joined the League of Nations.

I apologise to the others who come on this forum. Bob, you can post on the Gb, but if possible let us take this outside. Though, you are entitled to one last post on this forum as a reply to me. But please let us not lose our regards and good feelings for each other over this, despite the emotions involved. That only brings us closer to the uncivilised bastards who committed this heinous crime.

supratik

You are right from your side

And I am right from mine

We are both one too many mornings

And a thousand miles behind.

PS. I too have American cousins and relatives, and you probably know the stand that my country has taken. We are all on the same side. Take Care.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 00:38:19 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.112.174.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.112.174)

Pat Brennan

Supratik, I'm certainly not interested in seeing WWIII, but I feel pretty assured that action against a state like Afghanastan will not start such a war. World opinion appears formidably united--in fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if elements of the former Soviet Union become players in the inevitable military action, probably as the location of advanced support bases. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Taliban after some pointed suggestions, errr, "gives up" bin Laden although I would consider that a long shot.

History has consistently shown that people who underestimate the will of America pay rather serious consequences. The Gulf War, in which Saddam Hussein badly guessed the strength of his international position in invading Kuwait, is just one recent example. The American government regards yesterday's events as an act of war, albeit a new kind of war, and the American people fully support action to engage this enemy. As Peter and others have said, everyone from NATO to Castro have stood alongside the US on this. Bin Laden has badly misplayed his cards; in essence he has signed his own death warrant.

It's quite common for your enemy's enemy to become your friend, even for a short period. Some have pointed the irony of this out, and yes, it is ironic. Heck, the Irish Brigade has been part of the British Army at different times, and a sworn enemy of the British Army at others. As far as closing the borders etc., we have long become an international community. I doubt there really are borders anymore. Also, there's been a lot of emotional venting going on, but remember that strength is not in the anger of the moment but in the calm assessment of a situation. Over the years, many have suffered at the cruel hands of terrorists, and yesterday America felt the cruelty. But like a certain Japanese Admiral feared after Pearl Harbor, the terrorists have awakened a sleeping giant.

Posted on Thu Sep 13 00:11:53 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

I was merely pointing out that evil knows no geographic boundaries -- it comes from within the heartless & depraved. I stand behind my country & my president. When one goes to war, the eyes must be unclouded in order to aim straight.

"Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated. When you are ignorant of the enemy but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal. If ignorant both of your enemy and of yourself, you are sure to be defeated in every battle."
-- from The Art of War by Sun Tzu

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:52:27 CEST 2001 from spider-tk012.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.177)

bob wigo

Supratik,

You are in over your head. The United States has been asked to respond to every conceivable tragedy, disaster, financial travesty, famine etc. around this globe for the past two hundred years. Your sarcastic tone in questioning that fact offends me.

In addition, explore the definition of "magnificent ideals". You do understand that an ideal is just that?

We are, as a people and as a country, far from perfect. My question to you is this: just who the hell is going to face extinction if the United States decides to close its doors? And, if indeed that is a real possibility, why do you validate my point about our global role by presuming our responsibility for such a result?

Precisely my point. Thank you.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:49:52 CEST 2001 from inktomi2-bre.server.ntl.com (62.253.64.5)

Peter Viney

This is an emotional time, and a time when we all say extreme things. The fury I’ve heard here in the UK has matched the fury I’ve heard on TV from the USA. Every European nation has said that it stands with the United States. Tonight, Lord Robertson, speaking for NATO, invoked article 5, that an attack on one is an attack on all members of NATO. I don’t think America will find her friends and allies wanting at this time. Tonight, we heard the British Prime Minister say that they estimate there are hundreds of British dead in the two towers, as well as people of many other countries and so many, many more Americans of all ethnic backgrounds. It’s strange how that name, the two towers, brings to mind the spreading of the darkness from the East in a recently discussed work of fiction. America should not and must not feel it is without true friends at this time.

With the above in mind, I understand the emotion and deep sympathy with the USA that led to quoting Gordon Sinclair. I have seen the Gordon Sinclair broadcast quoted many times. Including here a couple of years ago. I’ve also seen the text and its bombastic writer ripped to shreds on simple matters of fact. Unfortunately, his kind of attitude helps no one. Sinclair was writing in the direct aftermath of Vietnam, and even then failed to credit America’s Australian allies in that conflict. He was wrong on debt and interest repayment by Britain, which remained a major part of our budget from 1945 until very recently. He was even wrong on airplanes – half of Europe was flying British or French aircraft as he wrote. On Vietnam, the Japanese (1935-45), British (1945-47) and the French (1948-54) had all failed in turn to defeat the Viet Cong and advised that a ground war was not winnable. His smart remark about being swindled in Paris would be echoed by any non-Parisian Frenchman. A French friend was in tears as we discussed New York yesterday. Sinclair failed to predict the Gulf War alliance, or the allied support for continued action in the area. All I’m trying to say is that his attituide – nobody loves us, everybody hates us – is plain wrong. I just want to say to all my American friends that I am convinced that your allies are totally with you.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:40:03 CEST 2001 from (203.197.126.104)

Supratik

The role that the world has asked the US to play ? It was the US support that bankrolled the existence of religious fundamentalists in Afghanistan.....the Taliban and bin Laden are products of that only. That is the bitter irony.

Pat : We need to get those bastards alright, no doubts on that. I just hope I don't live to see WWIII.

regards

sup

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:33:57 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.37)

Bones

I hope everyone is doing okay today. I finally got too depressed watching TV last night, and listened to RCO All-Stars cd followed by Storyville. I'm not sure why I used that combination, but it did help.

Robbie Robertson Reissues??

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:29:21 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.113.14.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.113.14)

Pat Brennan

One should keep in mind that wars occur because the population of a country supports the war. America's efforts in Vietnam ended because a huge percentage of the population no longer supported that effort.

If someone feels they have the right to surreptitiously commandeer airplanes and crash them into buildings in heavily populated areas, then I can't see any other way of dealing with them except on their own terms. It's actually very simple.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:27:56 CEST 2001 from (203.197.126.104)

Supratik

I guess I rambled a bit.......but probably my emotions got the better of me. Once again sorry if I hurt any one.

Supratik

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:26:25 CEST 2001 from spider-tk012.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.177)

bob wigo

David,

While your post has a sense of drama about it we both know that too is a dramatic oversimplification. The broader point is that we are nearing the time when we can no longer manage the problems on the homefront yet alone play the role the rest of the world has constantly asked us to play. It's possible that the occurrence of the Oklahoma City bombing bears that out. Your post cleverly but incorrectly alludes to my blaming immigrants for yesterday's atrocities. Please don't jump that chasm without a safety net. Neither those words nor those allusions came from me.

I believe that this critical juncture in our country's history is the time for a thorough examination of our role on the planet.We could list former Popes in the same fashion you just listed Mr. McVeigh. It does not speak to the point I am trying to make.

Semantics, while entertaining, do not provide solutions.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:23:56 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

My previous statements were unbiased, as well as factual. What pray tell distinguishs a "flake" from a fanatic--nationality?

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:22:11 CEST 2001 from (203.197.126.104)

Supratik

Sorry, I just read a few of the last posts......and something got me.......kinda hit me. I think I have always maintained my cool here but sometimes even I do get pissed off.

Firstly, we don't know who's behind this stupid, dastardly, pathetic, terrible act of carnage. It probably (very probable actually) is committed by a bunch of crazy but dangerous religious lunatics. There have always been people like that, in all religions and in all countries. If I had my way, I would eradicate religion, make it cease to exist. It has caused more deaths in human history than any other cause, natural or unnatural.

To those who spoke about closing the door: don't you think they shd have closed them in 1492. I am sure there would have been none of the incidents that took place yesterday in that case. Its not just about taking things out of perspective, its about getting so emotional that you begin to lose control over yourself, your actions in such a way that you lose your own humanity.

My father's 13 year old uncle was shot dead by the British police when attempting to raise the flag on the secratariat building in a state capital during the freedom movement. I don't hate the British for that, nor does the rest of my family. Have you even heard about the Jallianwala Bagh massacre or how the rebels of the Indian Mutiny were killed or rather murdered by the British.

These are not excuses for what happened, but all nations have had suffering writ large over their histories. You have to realise that when you are the most powerful nation in the world, there is a certain price you have to pay. And for heaven's sake, get that idea of the greatest nation and best democracy out of your head. That is exactly the smugness that gets most people in this world (who are non-Americans). Most nations are great, there is no such nation today which is the best or the greatest. They all have their faults. I include my own country in it. I have often been considered to be unpatriotic because of my views, but I think we need to think of ourselves as humans first and Indians, Pakistanis and Americans later. I could cite a long list of sins committed by America, India, Rusiia, Pakistan, China...almost all countries that there are in this world. Who's better, who's worse ? When I read Bob Wigo and Joe's post, the first thing I did (strangely enough) was search on Google for "Extinct Indian Tribes". The next I did was looking up on Ishi.....dunno how many among you know of him.....he was the last Alive member of his tribe, the Yahi. This is what one of the sites say of him : ""Ishi only lived four more years, but during his brief stay he transformed the people around him. His dignity and sense of self, his tireless dedication to telling his stories and showing his way of life, and his lack of bitterness towards the people who had destroyed his own, amazed and impressed everyone who met him. Because of Ishi's courage and generosity, and Kroeber's meticulous notes and recordings, we have a glimpse of life in this country before the white man. Ishi embodied the entire history of Native Americans: their life before contact, the tragedy of their destruction, their refusal to disappear, their determination to carry their culture into the Twentieth Century."

The magnificent ideals of the world's best country : tell that to the "Negro" slaves, tell that to certain people who lived in Salem, Massachusetts in 1692. I have a huge collection of Time Magazine from the 1960s. It opens up your eyes.....the Nam.....the racism......and to think its just about 40 years gone by. But then even the Time has become respectable now.

Amar Gopal Bose's (of Bose Speakers fame) father escaped to America (he was a freedom fighter and wanted in India) and raised a family there. In the 30s they weren't allowed to enter all restaurants, and that is when his father told him one day - If we are ready to lay down our lives for this country, why can't we allowed to eat feely in any place ?

My dad left England because he realised he had reached a certain position after which his skin colour and not his merit as an engineer was having a say in his rise up the ladder.

I never wanted to say all this....cause I have made so many great and nice friends here....and I know many of them have been hurt emotionally by this incident. I grieve for those who died because there was no reason to die. The greatest gift to mankind is LIFE, nothing else. I hope all of you find peace and that the culprits are brought to the courts and made to suffer and go through hell.

But for heaven's sake get down from that high pedestal and be goddammed human for some time.

Scorched Earth=Vietnam. Remember....My Lai?

Though I have to admit, even I feel that some of those scum need to be wiped off the surface of Earth. We could do with some of this cleansing.....why the innocent folks of all people....it could have been my family too some day ?

Peace and apologies to everyone.......but then as I said nobody's perfect.

supratik

PS. Amen Crabby

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:11:57 CEST 2001 from dialup-273.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.17)

Hank

If The USA deals with this atrocity in a cool and decisive manner, it will continue to lead The World....if it acts in rage and fear then it will surely be overrun by it's enemies.......there's much talk of attacking Afghanistan and the Taliban and Bin Laden......not so long ago, Bin Laden drove the Russians from Afghanistan...with US complicity and US arms...NOW he is the enemy......how did THAT happen?........Same with Saddam Hussein.....HE was armed to the teeth by The USA and The so-called 'West'.........In the 1930ies, The USA sold Japan TONS of iron ore to build warships and artillary....... Make no mistake......it's an OLD game....you arm your enemy to the teeth....THEN you destroy them after an atrocity such as this.........and help them rebuild for a price........the real leaders of American society want the nation on a war footing because it's ultimately great for business and technology.....this has nothing to do with Democracy or attacks on democracy.......what about democracy for the 10,000 voters in Dade County, Florida wrongly struck off the register last year?........Bush vs Gore? Democracy?........The USA is a great country because it has harnessed great resources, developed them, shared them and sheltered oppressed people.......it also destroyed the native culture........hopefully, it'll survive these terrible times and show World Leadership for real..............

'Love and Theft' rocks!

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:11:51 CEST 2001 from dhcp21318.sunyocc.edu (198.242.213.18)

Mr. K. Horse

MR POWELL SIR.. Use a flake! How old were you before your mother stopped picking out your clothes?

Posted on Wed Sep 12 23:02:12 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Timothy McVeigh--born 23 April 1968 in Pendleton, New York. Later immigrated to Oklahoma City in 1995. Known affiliations: U.S. Army, Republican Party and National Rifle Association.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 22:58:15 CEST 2001 from dap-209-114-164-92.nfas.monroe-tnt-1.sns234.pa.stargate.net (209.114.164.92)

Mary ( bear )

Bob, I guess I may have read alot more into your statements, and taken somewhat offense to your statements. I guess what I was trying to say, is those that are citizens here from other countries, especially from the Middleast, should not be blamed or made to feel responsible for this tradegy. Our country was founded by the many diverse people and backgrounds. My poor father who passed away a year ago, loved this country. I am still very emotional about my father. I miss him so much. I guess I just took this as a personal attack against my father and those I love. I just don't want immigrants, which is what our forefathers were, blamed in any way for this. But we do need to beef up security at our borders, airports etc. My father came to this country at 14 and died last year at the age of 77, and when you said send them back legal or otherwise, it struck a big nerve. Our family is crazy though, a mixture of everything. My husband is even part Native American. Go figure.......but lets just please come together as a nation....I'll get off my soap box now.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 22:44:58 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

I posted this earlier after my original Gordon Sinclair post; but if your not into scrolling I thought I would add it again. This is Gordon himself reading "The Americans." Gordon gave all royalties to this (what would later become a 45 record) to the American Red Cross. It was a pleasure knowing and working with him.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 22:19:01 CEST 2001 from spider-tk012.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.177)

bob wigo

Mary, I am not speaking with anger, hatred or revenge and I fully realize the impact such a stance would have on countless lives. None of that changes the facts. It's not working anymore. I am in no way, shape or form professing hatred. My statements have nothing to do with race or creed. Absolutely nothing.

This country is being drained dry by it's own generosity. Mary, I don't mean this to sound hurtful but I no longer give a damn about someone else's dream to come here and live. Soon that dream will be a nightmare. We are on a bad course. I want my children to have the privilege of living in a great country not a ONCE great country.

I reiterate, there is no hatred in my statements. I understand our country has enjoyed the wonders of diversity and has literally been built upon the shoulders of immigrants in pursuit of an opportunity. I am not a racist, I am not an elitist, nor a bigot. I am , however, a realist. It just doesn't work anymore and that fact will be sadly revealed to your children and your children's children. It is time for our country to look inward and examine the possibilities of the future. We can continue to coexist with our global neighbors but we cannot continue to heap the burden of the world on our shoulders. Every great feat of engineering has its breaking point. We will eventually arrive there. It is inevitable. If you believe otherwise you are being naive. Please, let's not go to and fro on this. I respect your opinion and certainly expected strong feelings to be expressed. I love this country as do you and, I'm sure, all of the people you mentioned. I am saddened by these realities born of such magnificent ideals.

I apologize to those of you who find this notion insulting. It is not my intent. I wish I could feel wrong about saying it.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 22:10:37 CEST 2001 from spider-wl082.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.57)

Joe

Bob Wigo.....I'm with you 100%......close the damn door, and shut the lights!!!!!! The rules of the game changed many years ago!!!

Posted on Wed Sep 12 22:06:17 CEST 2001 from (64.64.94.194)

Charlie Young

Thanks, Bob Dylan. Once again you have brought sanity and joy to an insane, sad world. The new album may be the best since "New Morning" (I was never that impressed with most of "Blood on the Tracks."). I tracked down the wonderful, limited-edition package and was happy for the effort. It is currently on sale at Borders Books and Music stores, for those looking for this version in the US.

By the way: there is a major piece about Dylan in the September 17 edition of TIME magazine, written by Christopher John Farley. The color photo of an angry-looking, intense Dylan accompanying the article is itself worth the cost of the magazine.

Last week I caught a great Leon Russell concert here in Virginia (at a theater where Levon played with Bob Margolin last month) and Leon performed an abbreviated version of Dylan's "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall." The song now seems eeriely prophetic of yesterday's events and sadly--like "Masters of War," "With God On Our Side" and other Dylan classics--remains just as timely as when they were written. Thanks again, Bob...

Posted on Wed Sep 12 22:06:29 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

JTULL FAN

I wish to condemn any attacks on childred or any one of middle-eastern decent in the U.S. Bye and bye these peole are here because they cherish the same values as the rest of us and we MUST accept them as fellow Americans. let us not repeat what happened to the Japanese Americans during World War II. It is very hard to live up to our values and ideals when we feel so threatened, but this is when they matter most. We will resolve this; we will heal as a nation, there WILL be HARSH JUSTICE. But we must also preserve our life liberty and pursuit of happiness for us and all who desire it or THE BASTARDS WIN.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 21:38:19 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti073.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.183)

Donna

Still in shock as I am sure everyone else is! I have my children home from school today, because I just needed to have them by my side. What is most fustrating is not having the answers to their questions. As a parent you try to teach them right from wrong, and I have always believed in freedom, peace, and love for all human kind. I just have so much anger right now, with the lunatics who have rocked our world, and the very foundation of which we have believed and lived by. I have no real good answers for my children right now,just that justice will prevail and goodness and love, and all the support from the other countries of the world, are with us. Although, the principles that I have lived by and believed in, have to be re-evaluated. This goes to the very core of my fustrations. I have to turn off the news, because right now, I cannot watch anymore. All the innocent lives that were lost have brought me to tears.

I just got off the phone with my aunt who worked two blocks away from the Towers, she was telling me first hand of everything that happened there, and everything that is going on now. She was 8 blocks away when this calamitous act was committed on our great country. Listening to her talk, while she caughs from all the smut and ash, as she is relating the story to me, has left me numb. I "DO" know now, that when something as awful as this happens, that the good people of this world, have come out and helped in everyway they can. This maybe the one thing that may renew my faith in human kind. I am just thankful that I have my children here and I can hug and love them. But what about the children who lost their parents? I hope we can someday make sense out of all of this. Because right now I am unable too.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 21:37:02 CEST 2001 from (205.245.52.66)

Carmen

America: The Good Neighbor

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to A remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking Down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those." Stand proud, America!

Posted on Wed Sep 12 21:19:48 CEST 2001 from dap-209-114-164-92.nfas.monroe-tnt-1.sns234.pa.stargate.net (209.114.164.92)

Mary (bear)

This is for Bob Wigo. This is not the time to blame legal or illegal immigrants to this country. My own father and his seven brothers and sister immigrated from Brussels, Belgium to a new life here in the U.S. My father proudly served in the Army during WWII. My Uncle Frank (my dads brother)ended up one step below a General. In addition, he had all kinds of security clearance and such, and spent 30 years as career serviceman. My sister is married to a man from Iran, my cousin to a Puerto Rican, two of my cousins to Mexicans, my other cousin to a man from Chad, Africa. You couldn't meet more kind and sweeter people in all the world. Most of their families are here as well, for a chance at a better life. When I grew up, with Volkswagon being here, and some of the people my father worked with as an engineer for the Electric company, as well as, the doctors, lawyers, etc. who lived in my neighborhood, I was exposed to a diverse group of people. Our best friends were from the Phillipines, there were many Korean, Japanese, Indian, Chinese, who lived in my neighborhood. All of them were hard working, wonderful people. I don't feel it is right to blame immigrants (illegal or otherwise) for what these evil terrosists did. We don't need more hate. These people were touched as well. My sisters father in law, of all things, left Philly yesterday for NY to the Embassy to pick up his green card, after 20 years of waiting. That is how long it took him to get it, after all the checks, and rechecks, and red tape. He was caught in this whole melee yesterday, and he didn't know where his daughter was, who lives in Manhattan, nor did any of us know where he was. Finally, after 8 hours or so, he was able to get through on his cell phone. I know, people are angry, I am furious. I do agree things need to be different. Tighter airport security etc. A friend was home sitting with me yesterday and we saw the whole thing unfold before our eyes on TV. She just came back from Tampa, after a 2 week vacation in Clearwater. She said airport security was lax. She said it was much more stringent a few years back when she flew. Security couldn't have been very good. It is hard to believe one plane was hijacked, let alone four. Now is the time to embrace all of our family, friends, neighbors etc. I think there has already been enough hate. It would be terrible to blame groups of people for something they didn't do. I know why my brother in law and his family left Iran. Some of the things we were told and believed by the media, was not at all what happened there at all. For 20 years they have not seen family and friends, and they left there fearing for their lives. No one appreciated the freedoms we take for granted everyday in this country more than my father. My sisters' in laws have expressed that over and over during the past six years. Please no more hate and anger. We all saw yesterday what hate, anger, evil, and revenge can do. Let us truly come together lovingly and more important, peacefully as a nation. If we allow anger, hate, revenge to consume us, we are no better than the evil ones who caused this.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 21:11:49 CEST 2001 from twhou-214-178.ev1.net (207.218.214.178)

Laura Holt Lorfing

I hope all the GBers are safe. This is so unbelievable. It took me a very long time to get to sleep last night. Like Lil said... "sleep was the escape..this reality is the nighmare."

Posted on Wed Sep 12 20:19:23 CEST 2001 from spider-tk012.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.177)

bob wigo

Thank you John for that kind and supportive gesture. I realize we Americans are far from perfect and easily misunderstood but it has always been bewildering as to why their is so much resentment toward us. There can be no questioning this great country's resolve or our willingness to come to the aid of our neighbors worldwide.

Last night I called my Dad, a proud WWII veteran, and thanked him for the incredible sacrifices he and countless others made to insure this great country's freedom. I couldn't help but feel sad for him as I know he is pained by the atrocities brought upon the very land he defended so unselfishly. That same hard fought freedom won then has sadly allowed countries around the world to use us as their dumping ground. This country, in my estimation, needs desperately to reevaluate the principles upon which it was founded. The game has changed. No one else is playing by the rules, for that matter there are no more rules. This may sound drastic but it is my opinion and I'm willing to share it here -- it's time to close the doors. We've done enough, we've taken enough, we've spent enough, there's been enough death and destruction. It's time for the government to return millions of legal and illegal immigrants to their homelands and close the doors behind them. It's not working anymore.We have been usurped. It is profoundly sad but surely true. It was an ideal formulated in a very different world than this one. God bless the men who forged it. There was no way to see this far down the path.

I never thought I would come to feel this way.

John's post reminded me of a great gesture made back in 1979 by one of our generation's greatest songwriters. This country was under tremendous duress at that time. Thanks Ray Davies for the tip of your cap. I've posted the website above with the lyrics.

Peace to all.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 20:02:33 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

John D.-glad you are back and thanks!!! We needed that!

Posted on Wed Sep 12 19:30:36 CEST 2001 from umddsk2.lib.uwaterloo.ca (129.97.138.88)

House_Elf

Hello everyone. My heart goes out to our neighbours. May your god be with you in your time of need.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 19:24:05 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

I hear you Jtull Fan. Today many people tried to get on the air to speak Anti-American sentiments and normally being a talk station we let them have their say and take it from there. Today our hosts are not taking any of that crap. The only thing on the other side of the coin that is sad, is that a group of school children of Arabic background were pounced upon by other kids. We don't go around beating up Christians because the Rev. Jim Jones served up the Kool Aid. It's important to remember that the basis of the Muslim faith, Christianity and Judaism is one of love and forgiveness. It's the radical groups that have no conscience. I actually think that Bush is handling this quite well and it's not over by a long shot.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 19:17:43 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

JTULL Fan

If Mr. Sinclair were alive today, he might add coming to the aid of the moslem minorities in Yugoslavia these past few years. I wonder if Mr. Bin-Laden and the Palestinians celebrating yesterday remember that. Time to wipe those smug smiles right off their faces...

Posted on Wed Sep 12 18:06:08 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

If you wish to hear Mr. Sinclair. Here is a link to him reading The Americans. The music was added later. I am proud to have known him and he is sadly missed in this country.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 18:01:35 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

On June 5, 1973, Gordon Sinclair sat up in bed in Toronto and turned on his TV set. The United States had just pulled out of the Vietnamese War which had ended in a stalemate - a war fought daily on TV, over the radio and in the press. The aftermath of that war resulted in a world-wide sell-off of American investments, prices tumbled, the United States economy was in trouble. The war had also divided the American people, and at home and abroad it seemed everyone was lambasting the United States.

He turned on his radio, twisted the dial and turned it off. He picked up the morning paper. In print, he saw in headlines what he had found on TV and radio - the Americans were taking a verbal beating from nations around the world. Disgusted with what he saw and heard, he was outraged!

At 10:30, on his arrival at (the radio station I work for) CFRB to prepare his two pre-noon broadcasts, he strode into his office and "dashed-off" two pages in 20 minutes for LET'S BE PERSONAL at 11:45 am, and then turned to writing his 11:50 newscast that was to follow. At 12:01 pm, the script for LET'S BE PERSONAL was dropped on the desk of his secretary who scanned the pages for a suitable heading and then wrote "Americans"" across the top and filed it away. The following are the words which were written in June of 1973. I thought it was appropriate to repeat it today.

LET'S BE PERSONAL" Broadcast June 5, 1973 CFRB, Toronto, Ontario

Topic: "The Americans"

The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.

As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.

They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.

The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.

I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.

Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?

You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.

When the Americans get out of this bind ... as they will... who could blame them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.

Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.

I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

This year's disasters .. with the year less than half-over… has taken it all and nobody...but nobody... has helped.

ORIGINAL SCRIPT AND AUDIO

COURTESY STANDARD BROADCASTING CORPORATION LTD.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 16:05:06 CEST 2001 from spider-wo084.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.59)

Amanda

Thanks to everyone from other lands, for your support and concern towards are wonderful country! Please say a special prayer for all the beautiful children of the United States. This horror is hitting them hard! They have so many questions and so many fears...it is heartbreaking.

Brown Eyed Girl: Thanks for sharing the insightful words of Bob Marley.......

Take care .....

Posted on Wed Sep 12 16:04:17 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

I know this goes without saying; but I believe the biggest shock is the fact that this has happened on North American soil. Not since the war of 1812 and the American Cival War have we never seen anything like this happen in North America. I think we truly believed, as Frank Zappa once said, "It can't happen here." It did and I believe it's going to take some time for people to get over this horrible disaster. I am still trying to get in touch with a boyhood friend who works a block from the Trade Center.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 16:01:36 CEST 2001 from 194-208-089-107.tele.net (194.208.89.107)

kurteee

coool

Posted on Wed Sep 12 15:19:00 CEST 2001 from spider-tr022.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.182)

Brien Sz

Everyone who we know that worked in the City is OK but this morning i got a call from a friend who moved to Pennsylvania -he was checking on us -he lost many friends. Prayers and thoughts are with them and the thousands of others we never knew. It is a sad day but i believe our reslove will only become stronger. Our spirit may have been dented but that's it. It's time to get up! Regroup! And show those bastards just what they're dealing with.

Watching the many news broadcasts yesterday and last night, The BBC certainly had a good take on it and interesting points of view.

Hank, i don't think this is about Real Estate at all.., This is about terrorists trying to make a point against democracy and our supposed evil. They wanted to knock out American symbols plus kill as many as possible. It was a cowardly act by these folk. In the past if one of our missiles strayed and hit a town with civilians, it was paraded to the press that we were evil and cowardly for killing the innocent. Sadam (for lack of a better example)hid in civiliain towns knowing we wouldn't strike there. Well maybe those days are numbered. Osama bin Ladin/Afghanistan they are now the same! I have always felt War is the most terrible act anyone can wage on another. For there to be rules to it is useless. If we wage it, I only hope we know exactly who's behind it, then we care not what is left of them and there supporters. Sorry for the evil in my tone but this cannot be tolerated.

I also feel this act may may backfire on the terrorists and support from certain nations - If we show our wrath, nations may not be so quick to house these criminals. I can't imagine China and Russia to be overly critical of any moves we may make in the near future..,That is all for my vent for now.., sorry

Posted on Wed Sep 12 14:48:33 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti071.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.181)

bob wigo

There is some good information concerning ways we can all help the effort at the site posted above. I hope each of you will find it in your heart to contribute.

Still no word as of 7:30 this morning. Please pray.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 14:20:26 CEST 2001 from ts1-17.steveston.axion.net (207.34.146.17)

Cupid

It's 4:30am as I type this, I can't sleep. In the face of what's happend I couldn't bring myself to climb into my big comfortble bed.

Yesterday morning I flipped on the news,as I always do as I eat breakfast prior to heading off to work, and thought at first that I'd come across an Irwin Allan movie[ I kept waiting for Charelton Heston to pop onto my screen]. I looked at the channel..hmmm..33..CNN..This is for real..and then the horror of watching the second plane tear through the second tower.There just aren't words...People write novels about this stuff it's not supposed to fucking happen for real!!!!!

After work I rushed home got on the net and checked up on as many friends in NY as I could. One of my chat friends was on the subway under the towers when the first plane hit. She had no idea what was going on until she looked out her office window some minutes later. She and her co-workers went to the roof of their building and watched before being told to get out of the city. She got out and is safe.

I'm glad [ and not a little relieve] to see the GB regulars from NY checking in and would , like Hank, I'd like all of you to check in just so we all know your safe. Bob Wigo your friend is in my thoughts.

Give your kids and each other a hug today my friends

May we all shine on inspite of this madness...Peace and much love Cupid

Posted on Wed Sep 12 13:42:15 CEST 2001 from spider-tf034.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.189)

JTULL FAN

I love the idea of a day of silence. two issues here: an act of War which is what happened to the Pentagon, a genuine military target. The twin towers: Genocide. These people were killed not because they were a military target but because of who they were: Americans by nationality, black, white, hispanic, asian, etc. The rational? Because by being Americans and in the financial district they somehow 'control the world'? Sounds like Hitler's rational, doesn't it? It makes our racial distinctions, as Americans, seem pointless as our external enemies certainly do not recognize them. If anything positive comes of this, hopefully it will pull our American family closer, and also, chillingly for the whole world, ad another to the sad list of genocidal actions. Israel understands this as they are having an official day of mourning today.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 12:36:30 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp37.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.37)

Diamond Lil

This is one of those mornings where you wake up, and for a few moments, feel relief that the nightmare is finally over. And then..you realize that sleep was the escape, and the nightmare is in fact, reality. A very scary feeling.

I feel very fortunate that those I was awaiting word on have all returned home, safe and sound. others were not so fortunate. 300 firefighters are missing and presumed dead. 80 police officers are missing. 266 people on the ill-fated planes have perished. Over 800 victims in the Pentagon tragedy have been lost. And thousands have lost their lives in NYC. My thoughts go out to anyone here who has lost, or is still awaiting word on a friend or loved one.

Over 700 people showed up at our local hospital here to donate blood, and I understand it was the same at other hospitals throughout the Hudson Valley. Local volunteers, firefighters, police officers, and medical personnel, have all gone down to the city. May they return safe and sound.

And on one last note this morning, I want to thank all of you who came to this forum to share your sadness, shock, and anger yesterday. I was here alone at the time this was all happening, and I found comfort in knowing you were all out there.

Wishing everyone a peaceful day...

Posted on Wed Sep 12 11:33:58 CEST 2001 from spider-fra-tb041.proxy.aol.com (195.93.65.166)

Karl-Heinz

I hope everybody is alive and well. Unbelievable ...

Posted on Wed Sep 12 10:09:05 CEST 2001 from (217.60.199.94)

Tom Holis

Just forgot... Everybody in Denmark is praying for you guys in the US. One thing is war where those involved are prepared for whats gonna happen... this is just too much! It is just too low to hurt inesent people. What kind of man could do a thing like this! This shouldn't go unpunished!

Posted on Wed Sep 12 10:03:37 CEST 2001 from (217.60.199.94)

Tom Holis

Hi Could anyone please give me the name of the Dean Martin cover which Bob Dylan recorded before Love and Theft? By the way, Love and Theft is a great album!

Posted on Wed Sep 12 09:32:20 CEST 2001 from 1cust203.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.54.203)

Crabgrass

God bless religion.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 07:23:33 CEST 2001 from dialup-209.245.117.68.dial1.weehawken1.level3.net (209.245.117.68)

Live Band Music To Trade

Lots of new shows added recently. Stop by and see if there's anything you like....RV

Posted on Wed Sep 12 07:02:35 CEST 2001 from 210-55-236-20.static-dialup.xtra.co.nz (210.55.236.20)

Rod

terrible. This tragedy is going to have a huge affect on a lot of things we take for granted in the world.

I hope all you GBers and your families are OK.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 06:21:31 CEST 2001 from dialup-112.cork.iol.ie (194.125.43.112)

Hank

God Bless America God Help America..........Which God?.....The God of War?

After Oklahoma, The USA had better pray this was not an internal thing.....it's easy to blame outside forces......It may well be that outside forces perpetrated this atrocity but ALL wars are waged on people by their leaders......and I don't mean George W. Bush..........War is a Real Estate Game.......there is tremendous value placed on Lower Manhattan..............Prime Real Estate.......The USA had better pray this doesn't lead to another Civil War

This World is ruled by Violence.........it's only natural that folks are gonna want to strike back.....the thing is, that strike back had better be effective and efficient and not be done in rage, with minimum loss of life, not sloppy and knee-jerk .......THAT way, America is Stronger and NOT as Weak as the people who bombed NYC and DC.....it's amazing how scary folks can be when they're being 'natural', ain't it?

Make NO mistake, Various Folks will profit on the thousands of lives lost today........and no amount of retaliation will bring those lost lives back. After looking out at the devastation of the aftermath of The Battle of Gettysburg a woman was heard to have remarked.....

'There is No Hope but to try and have No Fear'......

It's been a great relief to see the posts of The NYC regulars......I wanna see ALL NYC regulars checking in...

Peace Be With You, USA

That 'ole 'Feud' never seemed more trivial, eh?

Posted on Wed Sep 12 05:30:57 CEST 2001 from spider-te081.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.211)

Dave Z

I watched it live on CNN while feeding my kids... a shocking experience and sad day... my prayers go out to the victims, their families and friends... I pray and hope that none of you fellow GBers are lost...

Posted on Wed Sep 12 05:14:00 CEST 2001 from spider-wl041.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.36)

bob wigo

A dear friend of my daughter has not heard from her husband since he called just after the first plane hit. His office was above the point of impact. We are praying for a miracle.

Please include him and his family in your prayers.

My God, how did we ever get to this point?

Posted on Wed Sep 12 04:52:46 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp262967.sympatico.ca (64.230.37.128)

brown eyed girl

So much trouble in the world
So much trouble in the world

Bless my eyes this morning
Jah sun is on the rise once again
The way earthly things are going
Anything can happen

You see men sailing on their ego trips
Blast off on their spaceship
Million miles from reality
No care for you, no care for me

So much trouble in the world
So much trouble in the world
All you got to do is give a little
Give a little, give a little

One more time YE-A-H! YE-AH!

So you think you have found the solution
But it's just another illusion
So before you check out your tide
Don't leave another cornerstone
Standing there behind
We've got to face the day
Ooh-we come what may
We the street people talking
We the people struggling

Now they are sitting on a time bomb
Now I know the time has come
What goes on up is coming on down
Goes around and comes around

So much trouble in the world
So much trouble in the world
So much trouble in the world
There is so much trouble
There is so much trouble
There is so much trouble
There is so much trouble in the world
There is so much trouble in the world........

SO MUCH TROUBLE IN THE WORLD BY BOB MARLEY AND THE WAILERS (1979) FROM SURVIVAL

MARLEY ADVOCATED THROUGH HIS MUSIC PEACE, LOVE, AND UNITY........

Posted on Wed Sep 12 04:30:44 CEST 2001 from atpm3-1-45.enter.net (208.137.243.55)

KZR

It's good to read the posts in here about today's tragedy, whether positive or negative. I'm glad that those of you who posted from NY are safe. I think we need to stand together, pray for those who were killed, and be thankful for our own lives.

I have an idea. Why don't we have a day of silence in this guestbook, where nobody posts anything for 24 hours. It can start Thursday at 0000 hours Norwegian time, and end Friday at the same time. I don't know if it will work. Please forgive me if it sounds like a stupid idea. I'm just trying to think of a way for us GBer's to mourn those who lost their lives.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 02:33:47 CEST 2001 from spider-te013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.178)

Bayou Sam

I am - thanks

This is unreal. So sad.

Twilight - did you see the footage of the people falling down the whole length of the towers? They said there was a couple holding hands as they dropped to their death.

I live on Long Island - about 40 miles or so of the the city. I travel everyday for work to different places all around the tri-state area. Yesterday I was in New Jersey, and as we came up the Jersey Turnpike I looked over at the city because it's such a nice angle to view it from. I never get tired of seeing it, being a photographer. You get a great shot of the Empire State Building, and the Twin Towers.

Today I was up in Connecticut. I crossed the Throggs Neck Bridge. Somwtimes I look over at the skyline to see how clear it looks. If it's foggy out it isn't as nice. If it's clear, the view is fantastic. I was in a hurry (as we New Yorkers always are) and I didn't look. I heard about the horror while I was up in CT. I was working with several other people and all we wanted to do was try to get home. We heard all sorts of reports about what bridges and tunnels and highways were closed. We did OK driving back until we got near the Bronx-Whitestone Bride - then we crawled. This bridge is next to the Throggs Neck Bridge - they both cross from The Bronx ,into Queens. I think we all wanted to get up on the bridge so we could look to the right and see if the N.Y.C. skyline could POSSIBLY be there without the Twin Towers sitting right there at the end of Manhattan. It's an incredible sight. There's the Empire State, and to the left is this big cloud of smoke - and no towers. Me and the guy I was with were snapping photos of the scene. It was too bizzarre. This kind of shit dosen't happen HERE - does it?

We saw two army helicopters fly over. Then a loud, and nasty looking fighter jet buzzed the area. Then I got home and finally saw the stuff on TV. I know two people that work near the trade center. I'm trying to get a hold of them. A women that I work with has a brother who, YESTERDAY, was doing some repair work on the enormous antenna that was on the roof of one of the towers.

I'm basically a Peace loving guy. But I like what the President said today. These cowards will be hunted down and punished. You can't be flying planes into huge buildings, and the Pentagon, and not get hit back. I can't help the feeling - to put it in real basic terms - that someone really needs to get their asses kicked - hard. You know what scares me? What if it turns out to be people right here. Like the Oklahoma bombing?

God Bless the souls of the victims - and the people who are in there doing the rescue efforts.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 02:30:49 CEST 2001 from spider-wl072.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.52)

JTULL FAN

I agree with the venters out here and our friend in TN and in Beirut who ask us to put hatred aside. Thank you Jan for allowing us to use the GB today in this way; just doesn't feel respectful to talk music. I trust all of us who have vented out here are doing so constructively; better to vent at our friends and let off the anger and frustration in this manner than to actually go out and commit a violent act. Musically: 'I read the news today, Oh boy...'

Posted on Wed Sep 12 02:19:43 CEST 2001 from spider-to034.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.59)

Gtago Dami

Sadly, we now know first hand what it is like to live in Beirut and all the other cities which have fallen into the haqnds of terrorists. We are kidding ourselves if we continue to think we are immune to devastation. We are not. I flew in last night from San Francisco and at no time was I ever asked for I.D. I have much family in New York and Washington. Some accounted for, some sadly not. Pray for peace.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 01:41:49 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-119-181.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.119.181)

BWNWITennessee

Can everyone please stop arguing about revenge and moral/political issues until at least tomorrow? Or hopefully never? You all know that I enjoy a good argument as much as anybody, but there are people who post in or read this Guestbook who have lost family members or friends today, so show some respect and dignity to them. At least for today. None of your arguments are going to make a difference anyway.

Bayou Sam?

Posted on Wed Sep 12 01:12:05 CEST 2001 from www-cache-external.vuw.ac.nz (130.195.196.201)

ajr

Bayou Sam?? Hope you are ok.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 01:00:45 CEST 2001 from ti231210a010-0246.dialup.online.no (148.122.30.246)

Groan Alone

A sad sad day indeed, bless all in pain at this moment and bless those standing by their loved ones. Peace.

Posted on Wed Sep 12 00:37:49 CEST 2001 from www-cache.vuw.ac.nz (130.195.2.96)

ajr

I only just heard the news of the terrorist attacks now when I got into work and turned on my computer. I don't really have the words to say how shocked and stunned I am. I'm very, very sorry for the victims and their families and friends and for the whole terrible catastrophe.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 23:32:25 CEST 2001 from spider-tf012.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.177)

JTULL FAN

Thanks Jan. Your thoughts and everyone elses are appreciated by myself and, I am sure, everyone else.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 23:09:51 CEST 2001 from spider-wg044.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.39)

Brien Sz

My wife made it home safely - thank God! Now we are waiting for word on a cousin who works in the Trade Center.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 22:56:41 CEST 2001 from syr-24-169-189-83.twcny.rr.com (24.169.189.83)

Bashful Bill

Supratik-thanx for the kind words, I'm actually a few hours north of NYC. I have good friends who live right across the river,however, and a friend who lives in Manhattan. All are accounted for, fortunately. My wife is a RN and is working the evening shift tonite. She called a little while ago to say she probably won't be home tonite. They are expecting casulties to be flown up here. Unsuprisingly, medical facilities are overloaded downstate. Like Crabgrass(glad to hear yer allright, man) I learned of this tragedy here in the GB. I hadn't had the TV or radio on all morning, around 11 AM I checked in here.I've felt numb ever since. I had a class at 12 30PM, it was rather surreal sitting there discussing film while the real world was in turmoil. I arrived home to find out some idiot made a bombthreat to my son's school today!How do you explain something like this to a 7 year old?! I have a 6PM class as well. I keep expecting it to be cancelled,as is happening with most non-essential activities around here.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 22:55:35 CEST 2001 from 1cust130.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.130)

rollie

Put some positive thought out there folks.We allneed it.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 22:44:13 CEST 2001 from ti231210a062-0008.dialup.online.no (130.67.54.8)

jh

This is unbelievable. To all the friends I have and people I know in NY, and everybody there that have helped out with this site: I hope you are all OK and haven't lost anyone dear to you.

We're all shocked and saddened up here in Norway. Many of us, religious or not, pray for our American brothers and sisters suffering tonight.

Music helps and heals, I know that after what has been going on in my life lately. Something like this puts everything in perspective and should make us all appreciate life and the good things that _are_ here, after all.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 22:42:09 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Glad to hear GB'ers reportin in...positive sign. We can debate many views...being 60's activist, big time...have changed!! Our leaders...NOT too bright!! Goal of world peace is a nice dream! Reality is some people never learn!! Dam,........if ya walk home from school and the nasty dog bites ya,,try another route! If that dog is stupid enough to follow you.....shoot him!!! Debating re different philosophies is great..while world leaders do it..somebody gets binged!! My view, this day and age.....eliminate the competition!!! Should NOT have caved in to USSR after WW ii!!! Korea...shouldda sent China back to the dark ages!!! 1955....couldda helped the French...and prevented Vietnam!! Vietnam.....the whiz kid's mistake!!! Him..explain that to 50,000!!!! Sadam.. hmmm; son payin for mistakes of the father???? I am sorry...retaliation...!!! Forget about due process and granted rights..to those who behave in this manner!!! Catch em....toss em in an alligator pit!!!

Posted on Tue Sep 11 22:36:06 CEST 2001 from dialin-489-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.2.235)

Gene

Dennis - Thanks for the link for donating blood in the Hudson Valley. I'm going to give some up. Let's try to focus on helping our brothers and sisters in need.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 22:29:44 CEST 2001 from 1cust153.tnt8.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.15.114.153)

Hi

Twilight, that's probably the most assinine post I've ever read here and that's the most positive thing I can say about it....THINK!

Posted on Tue Sep 11 21:58:00 CEST 2001 from mat-9-16.enter.net (207.16.156.164)

Little Brøther

Chain lightnin', frightenin' as it may seem,
Must not be mistaken for just another dream.
Justice of the peace don't know his own fate,
But he'll go down in the shelter late.

Look out, Cleveland / Storm is comin' through
And it's runnin' right up on you
Look out Houston / There'll be thunder on the hill
Bye, bye baby / Don't you lie so still...

People react differently when confronted with the kind of gut-wrenching catastrophe we've witnessed today. My heart goes out to all the victims, and to the courageous folk risking life and limb to begin the healing.

By all means let us hope for retribution and justice, bearing in mind that such hope burns in the hearts of all mankind. Our experience in this GB microcosm ought to teach us about the futility of declaring a Feud to End All Feuds. As an older woman I used to work with often said, "Ain't the devil busy!"

At any rate, although we may be divided in politics, we're united in grief. Peace, all.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 21:52:15 CEST 2001 from dhcp21318.sunyocc.edu (198.242.213.18)

Kicking Horse

HEY TWILIGHT: I new several friends who were killed in Nam. The reactions from their family and friends was more patriotic than your utterances. This attack was concentrated against innocent American Citizens.. So on their' behalf I'd like to tell you to "GO FUCK YOURSELF".

Posted on Tue Sep 11 21:46:26 CEST 2001 from spider-wm072.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.182)

JTULL FAN

Twilight: There are people cheering in the streets in Jerusalem at today's actions. Perhaps you would feel more at home joining them. The actions against Iraq were done in response to naked aggression on their part and were in FULLFILLMENT OF U.N. RESOLUTIONS. If you have an an environmental or other issue/grievance, there ARE LEGAL REMEDIES! And if you think protecting some toadstool justifies killing perhaps FIFTY THOUSAND INNOCENT PEOPLE TODAY, you are beyond rational discourse. SHAME ON YOU! TAKE ALL THE PERSONAL SHOTS AT ME YOU WISH, IT'S A PRIVILEDGE 50 THOUSAND + PEOPLE CANNOT ENJOY AFTER TODAYS EVENTS. YOU ARE AND YOUR IGNORANT NOTIONS ARE PATHETIC.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 21:46:21 CEST 2001 from spider-to063.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.73)

chris

Amen Tommy

Posted on Tue Sep 11 21:36:55 CEST 2001 from spider-wl062.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.47)

Tommy

Hello friends....I'm OK.My mom woke me up with this line;

"We're under attack by terrorists."

Try going back to sleep after hearing something like that!!!

Anyway, this is a fuckin' disgrace....a disaster...a tragedy.And it's only the begining.Right?I'm no big fan of the US Government, but I am a fan of this country and what it's based on..and for better or worse, I think those ideals are gonna be upheld.Like I said, ,,For better or worse.

Man, I hope we can all keep coming back here,know what I mean?All the best folks, I'll check in.Be good to eachother, and your families.

~Tommy

PS.My friend Jon was a block away from the first tower when it went down,He said there were bodies everywhere.What a fuckin' mess.Like a bad movie.So surreal.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 21:08:43 CEST 2001 from du33-250.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.250.33)

Ilkka

A certain scene is in front of my eyes on this dreadful evening. - It is the year 1957 and I am visiting USSR. I watch my dad crying in front of a bombed house where he once lived. The similar scenes are in front of my eyes on the TV today - like so many times before.

Twilight: I disagree with you. Hatred has no perspective. Love does. - Sorry for this non-Band post. I try to control myself in the future.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 20:49:40 CEST 2001 from spider-wm014.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.154)

Donna

Words cannot describe how to feel today! It is just so sad, my heart goes out to all who were effected by this terrible act on our country! My heart bleeds for all the innocent lives that were taken. To all the GB'ers who live in the DC, and New York area,please check in here and let us know that you are alright.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 20:43:42 CEST 2001 from (12.33.178.222)

twilight

Thanks to Steve from Ypsilanti for adding perspective to today's tragedy. It's amazing that someone could missinterpret his message so profoundly. Don't be swayed by the knee jerk reaction of the corporate hack flute fan. One day he begs for apologies because he feels his message is taken out of context, and the next he's waving his American flag telling people to go to h---. Not to long ago, a lot of posters here decried the discussions of politics on this "music" page - sorry folks - this is all about politics. George W. Bush will shortly start blathering about "the cowards who commited this act" - and he will have some tough words, but nobody exploits the earth and its people like we do on a daily basis (especially George and his buddies). So please explain to all of us - what is the exact difference between what happened in the Sudan and Iraq and what happened to us here today. Maybe your last sentence should have read "come and join me in h---". Of course my heart goes out to the people who are on the front of this tragedy - waiting to hear from people I know that work in that building and in that area. This event may be a shock to those who feel insulated and "safe" within these borders - but if you've been out in the world you understand that many people suffer like this on a daily basis.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 20:44:28 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Hoping everyone out there, and their family and friends are safe and sound!!! Peace,....right!!!

Posted on Tue Sep 11 20:10:29 CEST 2001 from du33-250.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.250.33)

Ilkka and Meadowlark

Our sympathies are with the Americans on this dreadful afternoon. The attack against the USA - the leading democracy in the world - is not only an attack against your country, it is an attack against the democracy! - And yes, there is a musical Band connection even in this post. It is the _Americana_ which unite us in this guestbook. God bless you.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 20:05:34 CEST 2001 from 1cust249.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.54.249)

Crabgrass

Stunned here in NYC. First heard about this in the GB believe it or not. I hope religion didn't have anything to do with this.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 20:02:17 CEST 2001 from dhcp21318.sunyocc.edu (198.242.213.18)

KickingHorse

Someone once said that " Character is not made in a crisis - it is only exhibited" Let us hope that George Wya has what it takes to follow up in a method that brings justice to those involved (Bin Laden) and can somehow bring Real Peace to the children of this world that must endure one world horror after another.. That said.... Lets not waste anytime here folks.. The response must be swift if real deterence is our goal and unfortunately ( and I mean this)additional lives will be lost in this cause. History seems to bear this out.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 19:47:11 CEST 2001 from atpm3-5-7.enter.net (208.137.243.201)

KZR

What a sad day this is! It's hard to believe people can have this much hatred in them to commit a horrible act like this. Everyone who has been in this GB lately bickering over one subject or another, I think it's time we forget about these issues for awhile and say a prayer those who lost their lives today. I don't have too much else to say.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 19:45:05 CEST 2001 from spider-tl013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.178)

bob wigo

Please, let's be peaceful and supportive here. Tragedy of this magnitude will wrench everyone's emotions and all of those feelings and their expressions must be respected. I will freely admit that "an eye for an eye" seems the likely course this will take but try to remember the innocent souls already lost and all those that will be taken by the swift hand of revenge.

War and destruction of this nature is not just high tech entertainment on CNN. Good people, hard working people, people who love their children, people who care about others and respect human life are gone from our world and more will sadly be lost soon. War is not the solution.

The saddest fact of war; children with bright futures and unlimited potential will be taken from us. Pray we do not murder the one who holds the answer.

Peace.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 19:40:31 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-049.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.49)

Peter Viney

Here in Britain we are devastated and numb with horror. Everything stopped, as people moved to the TV screens. Our hearts go out to the American people in this darkest hour, the worst day in world news that I remember. It’s already been compared to Pearl Harbour. The infamy of this, I fear, will dwarf even Pearl Harbour. Tony Blair has said that all democracies must stand shoulder to shoulder with America to eradicate this evil from the world. My thoughts and hopes are with all my friends in New York and Washington. God bless you all. Let us hope that calm heads prevail.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 19:37:53 CEST 2001 from spider-tq033.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.58)

Sherry

Agreed, Butch - - - GOD BLESS AMERICA - - We will never bow, never break - EVER

Posted on Tue Sep 11 19:19:15 CEST 2001 from (203.197.126.104)

supratik

Was having dinner when I heard of the carnage. Didn't believe it at first....still seems kinda unbelievable.

I hope all the Gb'ers in NY (also DC) are fine. Crabby, Tommy, Baashful Bill and whoever else.

My deepest sympathies are with the American people. Violence has never been a solution.....for anything....anywhere.

Give peace a chance.

supratik

Posted on Tue Sep 11 19:19:30 CEST 2001 from (24.101.110.233)

John D

Jtull Fan mentions it's a very emotional day for Americans. May I add that those of us who are your closest neighbors to the north in Canada share in your grief. NY and Washington airplanes are all being diverted to Canada. I echo what the leaders of our country have already said, that we are here for America in any way we can. This is truly a very tragic day in history.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 19:09:44 CEST 2001 from hvc-24-164-172-134.hvc.rr.com (24.164.172.134)

Dennis

Sorry to be a "bother," but above (I hope) is link to blood drives scheduled in Hudson Valley over next couple of days 'n weeks.

PLEASE CONSIDER any where/any time: as an EMT and NY State Fire Policeman and fire fighter, I can assure you that giving blood is giving life.....

Thank you.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 19:08:36 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

Jtull Fan

Mr. Knowlton: I too am concerned at the hatred todays actions have caused to well within me. However, if you cannot differentiate between the scale and degree of today's actions versus those you mentioned, you are just plain obtuse. And actually (and Jan, I apologize but thise is a very emotional day for us Americans), quite frankly Mr Knowlton, you can go to hell.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 19:05:02 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

I am sick at heart over the deaths, but also sick about the bloodlust exhibited by some guestbook visitors.

From another person's perspective, it may be hard to tell the moral difference between these attacks and, say, the bombing of a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan to distract from a president's marital crisis, or the devastation of the entire nation of Iraq because of one man's recalcitrance.

As the old song goes, "Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me." God Bless the World, and all who love their neighbors.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 18:35:56 CEST 2001 from proxy1.etntwn1.nj.home.com (24.3.196.33)

Gina

WHY? If prayer's are truly answered PEACE. PEACE PEACE.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 18:34:58 CEST 2001 from 56k-la-01-25.dial.qnet.com (209.221.212.88)

Dave the Phone Guy

Little Brother,,,,,,At the end of the Elvis show I attended it was indeed announced that Elvis has left the building. My mom said that at all the Elvis shows she attended(about 6 or 7) it was always announced after Elvis' show that Elvis has left the building.

New York City and D.C GB'rs, hopeful prayers goin' your way. I hope my fellow GB'rs are safe and well. May God's hand rest on the innocent victims.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 18:29:11 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-th042.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.37)

Brien Sz

My wife's train was due in the World Trade Center around the time the planes crashed into it. A friend called to let me know what happened as i don't watch tv or listen to the radio in the morning..., I couldn't believe it.., Tried her cell phone.., no answer.., got in touch with her work.., no word.., then an hour and half later she called and said her train was diverted and she is ok. I'm still stunned but thank God she is ok.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 18:23:11 CEST 2001 from spider-tl013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.178)

bob wigo

I sure would like to hear from Crabby right now. Let us know you're ok man.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 18:10:05 CEST 2001 from hvc-24-164-172-134.hvc.rr.com (24.164.172.134)

dennis

I work on a 911 project here in Ulster County, the Woodstock area (100 miles north of NYC on the west side of the Hudson River). Precautions are being taken, most notably shutting down some roads surrounding NYC water supply whose holding resevoirs are here. No incidents here although plans are being made at hospitals, etc. NY Thruway open to all emergency vehicles (Red Cross, etc.). Banks and food stores are very busy, but no "run."

These facts are all now public knowledge, that's all I can say.

My God, please say some prayers for peace.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 17:55:17 CEST 2001 from zorg33.revealed.net (208.243.237.33)

Mike

Man, what in the world is going on?! I woke up to the phone ringing and someone telling me of what happened! Sickening and scary to watch the news! I hope all GB'ers in the NY/DC area are ok. Like Lil said, we need peace. And a little Love And Mercy too. Perhaps time for some personal reflection on my part. I hope all of you are safe and well out there. Peace.

Mike

Posted on Tue Sep 11 17:54:11 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.214.127.199.dial1.boston1.level3.net (63.214.127.199)

Ruby

Such a sad and frightening morning. Again I say keep the candles burning Love, peace and safety to all

Posted on Tue Sep 11 17:48:00 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

Jtull Fan

Can our GB brothers and sisters who live in the New York area please check in and tell us you are ok. I can think of Tommy right now. Please check in.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 17:47:40 CEST 2001 from (205.245.52.66)

carmen

I am so upset that I feel ill.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 17:41:32 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

Jtull fan

My wife is being sent home as her office is across from the federal reserve in Richmond. My coworkers sister-in law works in the Pentagon and is unheard from. We are all victims.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 17:35:35 CEST 2001 from dap-209-114-161-218.nfas.monroe-tnt-1.sns234.pa.stargate.net (209.114.161.218)

Mary ( bear )

One other thing: A good friend reminded me to give blood today. They really are in need. So please, if you can, please go and give blood today. Also, pray ........

Posted on Tue Sep 11 17:35:24 CEST 2001 from spider-tl043.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.193)

bob wigo

Words hold no value at this time. The sadness and bewilderment are overwhelming. Pray to your God that no more innocent lives are taken. The human race has never given peace a chance. Be safe.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 17:31:48 CEST 2001 from dap-209-114-161-218.nfas.monroe-tnt-1.sns234.pa.stargate.net (209.114.161.218)

Mary (bear)

First the twin towers of the World Trade Center, The Pentagon, a car bomb somewhere else in Washington, and now a hijacked Boeing 767 crashing by my home in rural PA. They feel it originated from Cleveland or NY enroute to Chicago. It is only about 15 miles from my home. Eternal rest grant unto all the poor souls who went innocently to God today. And God, please have mercy on us all and our country. Maybe, we will change our ways, and start coming back to God, instead of trying to play God in so many ways.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 17:07:24 CEST 2001 from spider-wb072.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.182)

butch

NO OTHER CHEEK,,,,,,,,,,,

SCORCHED EARTH,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Posted on Tue Sep 11 17:02:28 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp120.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.120)

Diamond Lil

God.... Peace. Please.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 16:44:08 CEST 2001 from spider-tf081.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.211)

Amanda

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Posted on Tue Sep 11 16:31:39 CEST 2001 from dhcp21318.sunyocc.edu (198.242.213.18)

Kicking Horse

1)Find out who did it.??? No matter how many suspects 2)No discussions; no committees, no if and buts! 3)Strike hard and fast 4)Get our bombers in the air and use them. 5)Specifically go after Ben Laden and although wrong for many, level Bagdad. 6) This is not the ime for polite counsultations between our allies or asking "ANYONE" for Permission; we know what must be done.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 16:07:33 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

Jtull fan

I've just seen the news and video from New York and am sick. What can one say? I really feel unable to function right now. To whomever parties are behind this, there must be no sanctuary to them, their supporters in material, deed, or thought. This is worse than an act of war and the response must be that no one would ever consider such an abominable act ever again.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 15:56:18 CEST 2001 from atmax-6-20.enter.net (207.16.154.30)

Little Brøther

Correction: That should've read "CROWD control", even if Elvis was The King.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 15:52:40 CEST 2001 from atmax-6-20.enter.net (207.16.154.30)

Little Brøther

Non Band-related question (except in that all-purpose way we make stuff Band-related, just because):

After a certain stuporvisor left the office to attend a meeting, someone said, "Elvis has left the building." This prompted the question of the origin of that expression, which of course is now universal.

I assumed it was originally a straightforward PA announcement made after Elvis shows during the era of Elvismania*, made for crown control purposes. Just a guess; hell-- I mean, heck-- I don't know.

Others claimed it was "originally" used in an Elvis obituary, it's a line from a song, etc. Well, it's all over the place NOW, but can it be traced to one source? If anyone knows, the old heads frequenting this GB will! Enquiring minds want to know, and I'd like to scoop the others during our next stuporvisor-free interlude... Thanks.

*No offense to the Elvismaniacs out there who are keeping the flame burning!

Posted on Tue Sep 11 15:23:28 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

JTULL fan..thanks!! Will send direct E soon!! Happy Birthdy... Acadian Ruby......original inspiration for the ROAD WARRIORS, and at 29, agin, young enough for RW membership!!! Interesting E received from North of the the border.....listened to Big Foot and pegged Jim Weider as SRV/RR guitarest!! At of 9/8 Ru show... he wouldda cut both of them!! That GREAT!!!!

Posted on Tue Sep 11 08:03:50 CEST 2001 from spider-wb011.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.151)

Donna

Looks like it's safe to come back in again. heh heh... This is a tough site to leave, with so many wonderful GBer's. For instance, what other website have people like: Mattk, who had me singing John Denver songs all week. Hank, with his stream of consciousness and his ..... Bob Wigo, and his funny one liner's. G-Man, who has formed The Road Warriors, and has crossed many bridges, just to get to a show. D. Lil, with her warmth and morning wit. Crabby, the nice and pleasant one. Tommy, who will shout, "Play Freebird", at a show. Peter Viney, Pat B, Dave the Drummer, Brown Eyed Girl, and everyone who I have left out. This is such a unique neighborhood, and I just want to kick myself for doing the exact thing I asked other poster's not to do.

Jan, thank you for all your hard work, and patience.

John Donabie, nice to have you back!

Now onto a Band related thread, I missed seeing The Gurus, at The Towne Crier this weekend. At this rate, I am going to have my RW Membership revoked. In honor of the Ru's, I listened to, "Big Foot" all day Saturday! If you don't already have this Cd, it truly is a must get! Jim Weider, has a way of making his guitar talk to you, with songs like, "Deepest Cut", "Sliding Home", and "I'm in Love." The next Guru Show is 9/28, at The Pattenburg House. Wild horses will not keep me from this show! If you get a chance, treat yourself and see this exceptionally talented band! Ruby, I will look forward to meeting you there!

Hey, it's so good to be back home again. Sometimes this old site feels like a long lost friend. :)

Posted on Tue Sep 11 07:11:32 CEST 2001 from sqd40.nirai.ne.jp (202.239.129.43)

Fred

JTULL: I just may take you up on your offer. I've too have a couple of downloaded tracks off Live At O'Tooles. I wonder why no one ever considered releasing it "officially". Enjoy your organically stimulated purification!!!

there was a little blurb in the weekend edition of the International Herald Tribune about Bob Dylan and his distaste for today's music and his constant battles with his daughter about her taste in music. Just proves we all become like our parents.....no matter who we are!!

Posted on Tue Sep 11 06:08:11 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp264225.sympatico.ca (64.230.42.116)

brown eyed girl

DAVE Z: Since Emily Carr's art is moving you at the moment........you might want to check out Canada's John Bottomley's song about Emily Carr on BLACKBERRIES......My fav song on this recording is YOU LOSE AND YOU GAIN.........Also another great children's author and illustrator is Ezra Jack Keats who uses collage in his stories........One of my professors told me that when she saw him in the Chicago area she was pleasantly surprised that he wasn't an African American illustrator because most of his characters are..........

A long time ago you shared your thoughts on Robbie's REDBOY recording..........I just want to say that I really appreciated that you felt comfortable to do this when the climate in this guestbook is not always Robbie friendly...............

Posted on Tue Sep 11 05:59:51 CEST 2001 from dialin-342-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.2.88)

Gene

Peter - How about "My Back Pages" by the Byrds? Thanks for the pix!

Posted on Tue Sep 11 05:31:13 CEST 2001 from spider-wa041.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.36)

Dave Z

Brown eyed girl: Thanks for book titles!!!... I grew up on Claire Bee myself... and right now the art of Emily Carr is really moving me... and I wish the Band would have done a "green" album... my fav color...

Thanks for the Ruth interviews... I've really enjoyed them... I also can't help but wonder what if... because the late 90's early 00' appears to be another peak period for those still here... and sharing...

Posted on Tue Sep 11 04:13:04 CEST 2001 from m198214182134.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.182.134)

Pehr

I'm a sucker for punishment sometimes... I've held off on Garth's record since july to be able to get it locally on the same day as Bob D's new rekkid. just one more night! I'm really excited!

I'm happy to see ya back John D!

Did Rick make paintings? I know Richard got into paintings. I'd sure like to see one.

ah, tommorow- new music. "Christmas (eve) Must be Tonight"

Posted on Tue Sep 11 04:09:08 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp264225.sympatico.ca (64.230.42.116)

brown eyed girl

MAURICE SENDAK is considered the Picasso of Children's Books......WHERE THE WILD THINGS ARE has always been my favourite book of his......Sendak's monsters are friendly and lovable......although his books are for children he writes on more than one level so adults can also appreciate his writing........and he's an amazing artist!........

For those of you who have children some other authors who are worth looking at are Robin Muller.......the females in HIS books seem to be the active problem solvers.......James Marshall has a fabulous series focusing on the relationship of two best friends.......GEORGE AND MARTHA......your children will fall in love with these characters........and Aliki writes information books on Dinosaurs as well as books which are drawn in a cartoon format focusing on FEELINGS and MANNERS......

Speaking of Picasso.......The first painting I saw in a magazine that drew my attention towards art was Picasso's "The Three Musicians"......hmmmmmmm.....I also really appreciate art by Miro, Klee, Vincent Van Gogh and Dali.......The fact that these are my favourite artists does not mean that I don't also appreciate the work of others such as Chagall, Monet, etc.......it only means that for various reasons I have more of a propensity towards these particular artists.....just like red is my favourite colour.....does that mean I don't like blue, purple, etc.?.........the same can be said for the individual Members of The Band.........................................

Posted on Tue Sep 11 04:03:42 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.115.52.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.115.52)

Pat Brennan

A boot of Van doing Just Like A Woman in a radio studio with drums, guitar, bass, and piano (probably Jeff Labes)--I'm gonna guess mid-70's--is floating around. Remarkable, especially with his lyric addition "Please don't let on that you knew me when, I was weird, and you were weird too."

Posted on Tue Sep 11 03:26:08 CEST 2001 from 159.mercerville-21-22rs.nj.dial-access.att.net (12.78.148.159)

carmen

Here is another Dylan refiew for those interested.

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=010910&cat=entertainment&st=entertainmentleisuredylandc.html

Posted on Tue Sep 11 02:45:23 CEST 2001 from spider-tj042.proxy.aol.com (152.163.213.192)

Rick S.

Great review of the Gurus' concert in Pawling by G-Man. Come see this group- they're playing at the top of their game now. No matter where they are the Gurus always make it a home game.

Posted on Tue Sep 11 01:54:57 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tg052.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.172)

JTULL FAN

Just read the Danko interview and was floored to see that Richard suggested they all invest in computers. This was 1984/1985! Anyone care to research what a $10,000 investment in Microsoft at the time would have been worth in 1999 or even today?

Posted on Tue Sep 11 01:27:05 CEST 2001 from spider-tf031.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.186)

Mrhaney

I read that remasters of Robbie Robertson's first two solo records were due out on Sept.11th.....Has anyone heard anything? Thanks....

Posted on Tue Sep 11 01:19:31 CEST 2001 from spider-wb043.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.168)

JTULL FAN

G-Man: Send me an email re: Last Polka and I'll figure out how to make you a copy. It is currently in my mothers possession (out of state but I can have it shipped to me for copying). Essentially,it's more like a polka version of Spinal Tap than Last Waltz, and has a similar 'you have to watch closely to get the joke' type of humor. In 'Planes Trains and Automobiles' there is a scene of John Candy playing clarinet while hitchhiking in the back of a van; this is a nod to his Schmenges Last Polka work. GUYS: If teh JTULL Fan gets crabby the next few days it is because I cannot eat solid food until Friday; My bosses wife convinced us to eat organically grown stuff for 2 days followed by a water fast for 3 days to cleanse our bodies of industrialized processed food pollutants etc.etc. No alcohol, coffee, processed stuff. It is a holistic thing and I agreed to try it. If you thought I was an fool, here is the proof.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 23:49:09 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-048.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.48)

Peter Viney

As befitting Bob’s status as “senior related artist on this site” (with Ronnie Hawkins) let’s continue. Supposedly there are two versions of “Love & Theft”- the basic album and the digipack with bonus 2-track CD. Monday is British release day, and all three stores I was in today only had the digipacks with bonus CD (which isn’t anything special). I think Bob does a fine, dignified vocal on ‘Mississippi’ but Sheryl Crow’s driving version won’t go out of my mind. I’ve had ‘Love & Theft’ on all day, and for me Sheryl Crow joins that very select group who have bettered Dylan versions of Dylan songs. The Band – Tears of rage, I Shall Be released, This Wheel’s On Fire, When I Paint My Masterpiece, Blind Willie McTell (OK, every time they tried, except ‘Love You Too Much’ is nothing of anything). The Byrds – You ain’t Goin’ Nowhere, and OK, exactly equals with Mr Tambourine Man, Manfred Mann, ‘If You gotta Go,’ ‘The Mighty Quinn,’ The Neville Bros, ‘With God On Our Side,’ Suzzy & Maggie Roche, ‘Clothes Line Saga,’ There may be others! Van ‘Just Like A Woman’ live a couple of years back, but I’ve no recording to check so it may just be live charisma.

But after half an hour’s comparison, Mrs Viney agrees with David Powell. She reckons that Sheryl Crow’s version is akin to a female priest preaching in a Catholic church. Yes, it’s vastly more immediate, better backing too, but it’s a male song, and Sheryl Crow does it as the young Dylan might have done it. The old Dylan does it brilliantly however, and gets her vote. Her last comment was ‘Let’s hear Bruce Springsteen do it.’ Ah, well. Lost that one. On to Po’ Boy for the rest of the evening.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 23:06:24 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

John D: Selected retailors will be selling a limited edition version of Dylan's "Love and Theft" that comes with a bonus disc containing two previously unreleased songs. The bonus songs are a Dylan version the traditional "I Was Young When I Left Home" (recorded Dec. 1961) and an alternate version of "The Times They Are A-Changin' " (recorded Oct. 1963).

Posted on Mon Sep 10 22:55:23 CEST 2001 from wwwcache.lanl.gov (128.165.156.80)

Kay

My Love and Theft has a second CD with I Was Young When I Left Home and The Times They Are A Changing. Cost 2 bucks more than the one with no bonus tracks. . .a true bargain. Looks like nothing else is different.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 22:09:51 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Found these to me the most interesting of the new Dylan interview.......ESPECIALLY PARAGRAPH 02:

Regarding one author's disclosure of Dylan's marriage to background singer Carolyn Dennis from 1986 to 1990, Dylan chuckles and blurts, "I've been married a bunch of times! I mean, I've never tried to hide that. I just don't advertise my life. I write songs, I play on stage, and I make records. That's it. The rest is not anybody's business."

Fans will have an opportunity to read Dylan's "take on people who've had takes on me" in Chronicles, a series of memoirs to be published by Simon & Schuster. So far, he's penned about 100 pages of recollections about his folk launch in New York for the inaugural volume, due next year.

Though loath in the past to correct the record, Dylan is less reticent about addressing specific misconceptions. Family matters remain off limits. Asked about the Lonesome Day Blues line "I wish my mother was still alive," he declines to discuss her death last year, except to say, "Even to talk about my mother just breaks me up."

Posted on Mon Sep 10 22:03:08 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Did I read earlier that someone had found a copy of the new Dylan CD with bonus tracks? I have two copies. One is the promo CD for media and the other the commercial version. No bonus tracks on either copy.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 21:55:10 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.37)

Bones

Jan: Thanks for those words. Very timely. Sometimes I think it is easy to forget why we're here in the first place.

The primary reason I started visiting this wonderful place years ago is to stay current with Band-related items. Robbie's on TV, Levon is on that record, Garth's playing this gig, Rick is in this magazine, Richard's song is being covered by this band, and so on. That is why I love being here.

Thanks to Ed for the heads up on Robbie's interview in Guitar World Acoustic this month.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 21:54:13 CEST 2001 from 1cust215.tnt3.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.109.215)

HI

My understanding of the re-recording of Mississippi was that Dylan considered doing it because it had not been bootlegged and was not what he wanted on the earlier version. Was he wrong about this? Also I understand the L&T version is quite different than Crow's plus with an extra verse...it is one of several outstanding cuts..Dylan thinks Highwater is the best..he might be right.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 21:30:16 CEST 2001 from spider-tp034.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.189)

Ben Pike

Susan, you gave it away! That was Marcus's review, by the by. And yes, it was Children's Book author Marice Sendack, who once wrote a musical with Carole King, who, like the Band, once inspired The Beatles.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 20:51:13 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

I have to politely disagree with Peter Viney. I prefer the rawer, bluesier version of "Mississippi" that Dylan recorded for "Love and Theft" to that of Ms. Crow's recording.

Dylan originally recorded this song during the "Time Out of Mind" sessions with Daniel Lanois. In the current issue of Rolling Stone magazine, when asked why he recut a different version of the song, Dylan responded that he disagreed with the way Mr. Lanois thought the song should be structured rhythmically when he recorded it at that time. In any event, the song wasn't included on "Time Out of Mind". Dylan self-produced his new album and recorded the song the way he wanted it to sound this time round. I haven't heard his original version of the song, so I don't know how close Sheryl Crow followed the Lanois-influenced recording.

I finally got to hear "Love and Theft" this past weekend and have to admit that it greatly exceeded my expectations, to say the least. The lyrics and the images conveyed by the songs sound both old & familiar and uniquely inventive at the same time. Dylan has adopted the persona of a world-weary minstrel, as he takes us out on the road to look at life through those eyes. This time out, the visions are like a trip down the desolation row of the new millenium.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 20:29:35 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Re Cabbagetown: his own statements aside, is there any evidence that Robbie Robertson ever lived there? A guitarist who was around at the time laughingly told me years and years ago that Robertson and Traynor used to claim to be from "tough" Cabbagetown, but really lived in the more genteel (but not wealthy by any means) Riverdale area.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 19:23:39 CEST 2001 from (205.245.52.66)

carmen

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/2001-09-10-bob-dylan.htm

see above Dylan review in today's USA Today.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 19:22:01 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

I think it is important to consider this guestbook in the same way one would consider a friendly dinner party at Jan's house. Everyone looks forward to lively discussions but nobody has fun when the conversation descends into bitterness, nastiness, or just general unpleasant behavior. Just as you would not sit at Jan's dining room table and sling insults maybe it would be a good idea not to do it here.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 18:56:46 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Just want to second Butch's post re. THE GURU show at Pawling(Town Crier--GREAT place to see a show)!! BEST Guru show to date!!!Rick the Suffern Slasher...tappin both feet and one hand; had to hold him back!! Frank A and D-2...missed greatness!! Shouldda recorded that show!! Jim Weider....master guitar player: El Sid---he and Jim.....WOW!! M...Gold...bassman supreme!!! A Bomb ......WOW!!! Rando man.....shades or no shades/Awesome!! Three hours of super music....TOO SHORT!!

Posted on Mon Sep 10 18:44:21 CEST 2001 from hoiberg.hiof.no (158.36.51.55)

jh

Regarding negative posts about musicians and people connected to the music that we're here for:

Please remember and respect that this guestbook and the web site are services provided to the net community of Band fans and others interested, by someone who does this as a hobby/ labour of love thing. If you want a place for focusing strongly on the negative things involved in this, then maybe you should find other and more appropriate sites or newsgroups, especially if you want to use the strong words we have seen here lately.

I have nothing against discussion of these topics. I have nothing against the use of strong words (I swear too much myself). What I have problems with is that people use my tribute site to The Band to hurt people.

The freedom of speech here is, in fact, limited to whatever the editor may want to accept, like it or not. He's been known to tolerate a lot, though. And, of course, if the noise/signal ratio gets too big and the guestbook is not functioning as it should, there will be no more guestbook.

So... discuss whatever you want here, but please remember where you are. Thanks.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 18:03:27 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-130.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.130)

Peter Viney

Love & Theft: Some reviews note ‘Mississippi’ as the outstanding track, but none of them note that Sheryl Crow recorded it on ‘The Globe Sessions’ in 1998. It’s an outstanding song, but am I alone in thinking that Sheryl Crow greatly improved the arrangment, almost to a co-writing credit degree by adding such a catchy riff to it?

Posted on Mon Sep 10 17:40:32 CEST 2001 from stx32.library.uiuc.edu (130.126.32.133)

Susan

Close, very close. It's the big thing with teeth from Maurice Sendak's 'Where The Wild Things Are'. It's not decorating a tree, it's decorated as a tree

There are two banners on the corner of the cover. One is for Gleason's review; the other is for a feature on Sendak.

Sendak? Sendac? Sendack? - well, you get the idea.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 17:26:37 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp122.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.122)

Diamond Lil

Wow Pat...I can almost picture that cover! (Was that it Susan?) And if so, Bun E. Carlos was the gremlin, right? :-)

Posted on Mon Sep 10 17:00:10 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.66.12.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.66.12)

Pat Brennan

Wasn't the Rolling Stone cover a cartoon of some weird Christmas gremlin decorating a tree?

Posted on Mon Sep 10 16:51:29 CEST 2001 from stx32.library.uiuc.edu (130.126.32.133)

Susan

Ben Pike - typing in the Gleason review will be a pleasure. I need to make contributions to the site in return for the pleasure I take from it.

I cheated on the Rolling Stone cover question. As it happens there are bound volumes of most of the '70s Rolling Stone not far from my office. No one will ever guess; it's one of those atypical covers without a musician or a politician.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 16:42:32 CEST 2001 from spider-tk012.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.177)

bob wigo

I would love to see one of Rick's paintings. Also, I was not aware of him having a daughter who would now be around thirty one years old. What of The Band's offspring? Anyone have any stories to share on that topic?

I lost a great friend some ten years back and now, when I see his son, I see that same spirit in his eyes.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 16:30:34 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

J TULL FAN...can you send some info re. obtaining Last Polka??? Do Scorstinky and the Duke have any connection!!!

Posted on Mon Sep 10 16:06:03 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Jan..got photos back! Thanks!! Brown Eyed Girl....as fast friends....up Front, I have to tell ya...Road Warriors....would NOT see Robbie!! That's part of the Road Warrior Credo!!! See it's-Barnburners, Gurus, and Cromatix!!!! Or it's ex-ROAD WARRIOR!! Welcome back John D.. Think ya covered it to a T!!! Except...ya didn't explain what rhymes with "duke" !!!

Posted on Mon Sep 10 15:23:03 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

For the record, "Weird Al" and Frankie Yankovic are NO RELATION, although mutual admirers. I wish Al would go back to using accordion like in his early albums. He's no patch on Garth but I bet Garth never worked out the bass line to "Another One Bites the Dust" with the button register.

Shows I regret missing: I had the chance to see the new Band in '94, but I was a bit offended by a $40 ticket price. Rick Danko's last show ever was in the next town over, but I didn't know about it until the obituaries started running.

Shows I regret attending: Bob Dylan and Carlos Santana in '93. The mix was so bad for Dylan that all I could hear was bass guitar - usually not the most intriguing part of Dylan's music. Springsteen in '92. He had ditched the E Street Band and was on tour with a generally unsympathetic group of session cats. No groove at all. (I saw him in '95 solo and it was the best concert I've ever been to. By the time he regrouped the E Street Band in '99 ticket prices were not just offensive but would have left us no money to eat that month.)

Posted on Mon Sep 10 14:40:15 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

JTULL FAN

Fred: I've got the Schmenges on video; the Spinal Tap of Polka! Also have most of O'Tooles from Napster if you want to email me.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 14:07:30 CEST 2001 from sqd40.nirai.ne.jp (202.239.129.43)

Fred

Ben Pike: Either the Eagles or Fleetwood Mac (I can't decide which).

Does anyone know how I can get hold of Live At O'Tooles?

While trawling through the web, I came across the informaion I was looking for in my last post---by accident really. Now if I can only find where I put my keys so easily!

It's rather amusing where the links on this site will lead a person....in a roundabout way,via the filmography section, I came across a website for SCTV and had a blast remembering that show, especially the Schmenge Brothers and THE LAST POLKA...I wonder if they ever covered any Band tunes?!??!

Thank you Jan

Posted on Mon Sep 10 13:48:17 CEST 2001 from cl3017108-b.mdsn1.wi.home.com (65.3.255.9)

Tim(SUNDOG)Corcoran

Bayou Sam & Mike,,,good points. We all get burnt out of things, or hearing about things, or reading about things, (like my Rick Danko pictures,which mean more than ever to me now) though life that we want to shut it out. But we must take the good with the bad on all levels and degrees of life. I'm no saint either, and I have friends that are enemies too!!!

Posted on Mon Sep 10 11:54:36 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp240.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.240)

Diamond Lil

Ben Pike: I'm not sure why this immediately came to mind when you asked about the Rolling Stone cover..but for some reason, it did. Was it 'Cheap Trick'?

"We are who we are at our best as well". Very nicely said.

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 11:39:25 CEST 2001 from onions.mcc.wwwcache.ja.net (194.82.103.143)

Roger Woods

Great post John D. The other special thing about Levon's work is that he's working with his daughter. That would keep me happy. Interesting views on venues in the UK Peter. There's a further layer - music pubs. The Fleece and Firkin in Bristol had the Creekdippers (Mark Olson ex-Jayhawks) in the summer; I saw Son Volt in the top room of a pub in Wolverhampton. Smaller venues than the Barnburners play but not much smaller.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 08:13:25 CEST 2001 from spider-wl024.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.29)

Ben Pike

Phil, good guess. WRONG. Thanks Susan, I didn't mean to put you out. That Gleason review was reprinted in a paperback book of Rolling Stone reviews that I looked for for years and never found. I saw the book once: I happen to be at a small gathering at the home of a guy who did a lot of high profile interviews with Rock Stars, and he had one. I believe Gleason said at first he thought "Dixie" was the album's weak point(!). But then he decided it was a "12 sided diamond, whose sum is greater than it's parts." Which I also think of when people try to pick their favorite song. Levon Note: In the early eighties I went, a couple of times, to see Danko and Helm at some bar in the Chicago suburbs. Musicly speaking, these gigs were not what you would call big deals; they ran through a predicatble set list of songs we will always remember for their much better versions. Rick said the living room thing. It was, however, a chance to see them up close. On one of the nights they were a little late getting started, they had some sound problems, Levon said, "sorry folks, we are usually a whole lot more together." I was struck by how genuine Levon seemed to care about the audience being put out. That whole southern gentleman thing that I'd seen in others, and seen other's fake, shown in a very real instance. So, I try to look past some of the bitterness and, well, nastyness we've heard about in later years(as anyone knows, I'm firmly in the Robbie camp as far as the "fued" goes) and remember Levon in those moments of effortless grace. We are who we are at our best as well.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 07:57:54 CEST 2001 from spider-tl043.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.193)

Mike

After reading the 1 millionth rehash of the feud, I'll repeat what I said here awhile back. I don't know who wrote what, and only five people really do and two of them are dead. But there has always been a way for financial equity that has been steadfastly blocked by Robbie. In the music business (I'm talking as both a former manager and publisher) songs are divided 50/50 between the publisher and the writer, less administrative costs. Unfortunately, when Albert Grossman began with The Band, he started five publishing companies, one for each member of the group. This was setting up an inequity between the writers and non-writers. Had they set up one publishing company, shared in equally by all members (the publishing share NOT the writers' share) everybody would have gotten a small piece of the pie. Many groups have done this (two that immediately come to mind are the Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane). I think that had that happened, the others wouldn't have felt so ripped off. This is not denying Robbie anything as a writer, but cutting the others in for something. For without them on the songs, I doubt they would have been covered nearly as many times as they were. Just my opinion.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 07:25:13 CEST 2001 from spider-tm012.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.47)

Bayou Sam

bwnwitenn = I thought the basic point of your post was pretty right on. I'm not as "angry" at Levon for his position - but your right, it's enough already. I know that's easy for us to say since we're not in Levon's skin. But PROVE IT already, or sue Robbie. ....I have also thought that there are those folks who seem to bash 'ol RR purely because of what Levon has said - that's not right. I wish, like most folks, that Levon can somehow work this freakin' thing out in his head somehow. It seems such a shame for a guy like him who beat one hell of an enemy over the last year or two, to be so consumed with a personal thing like this.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 06:52:21 CEST 2001 from coretel-184-149.charm.net (162.33.184.149)

Tiny Montgomery

Hi. Can anyone tell me who played guitar on the summer '85 tour (opening for CSN)? Thanks!

Posted on Mon Sep 10 05:18:50 CEST 2001 from sdn-ar-001ilurbap152.dialsprint.net (158.252.113.88)

Susan

Ben ke asked for the Ralph J. Gleason review of the Brown album for the site. Ben, your wish is my command. I have that issue of Rolling Stone (October 18, 1969 - there are packrat tendencies in my family) and will type it up for Jan.

. I also have a batch of mixed clippings - reviews, interviews, etc. from around the time of Northern Lights, Southern Cross. Most of these have no attribution, but I'll type some of the up as I have time. It is astonishing how many reviewers can't tell who is singing what song. Now I can't always tell who is singing background harmonies, but the lead voices of Rick, Richard and Levon are unmistakable.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 03:57:02 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-117-99.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.117.99)

BWNWITennessee

Dave the drummer, the only name I could find myself calling Levon was "bastard," (without your gratuitous "pitiful"), which, okay, maybe I shouldn't have said, although I certainly have the right to. (You might have mistaken the "motherf***er" as one of mine, but that one was from Levon.) But I'm sick of reading ten years' worth of interviews with Levon where he insults Robbie with no substantial evidence to back up his claims, while Robbie says nothing about him. And now people say that Robbie not saying anything bad about Levon is a sure sign of his guilt!! I mean, come on, what does he have to do? Go on a web chat and say, "Yes, I really did write those songs. Some of them were based on stories that Levon told me, and some had a phrase or two that Levon used. But I still wrote them." Would THAT make people happy? Probably not. Did any of Levon's defenders actually read the interview that I mentioned?

And I wouldn't have said anything about it, but since you mentioned it for all to see, it was Butch who initially contacted me, saying nothing more than "shut up." I responded to him that I will happily apologize to Levon on the GB if he could change my opinion, and that goes for anyone here. If you want to e-mail me and have an INTELLIGENT discussion about this, I will be happy to. Maybe someone can change my mind. And yes, I would happily discuss it with LH, too, provided it was an actual discussion. Like I said, I used to admire the guy, but I've just gotten sick of the unsubstantiated claims. And for anyone who might doubt that, you're free to go through the archives to find old posts from probably last spring where I was still excited about going to see the BarnBurners. My opinion has changed 180 since I've been coming to this sight, probably because I never knew how many people took Levon's claims seriously.

I'll stop now, though, because I don't want to start a war.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 03:51:00 CEST 2001 from 209-239-207-64.oak.jps.net (209.239.207.64)

Phil

Carly Simon.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 03:04:21 CEST 2001 from spider-tf022.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.182)

Ben Pike

Thanks, I hadn't read that OUI peice by Emmet Grogan since it came out. Think it's the only time I ever bought OUI. I wish they had Gleason's original review of the Brown album. AND hey, here's a good old fashioned TRIVA question: The Band did not get the Rolling Stone Cover for "The Last Waltz" as reported by Marcus. Who did?

Posted on Mon Sep 10 02:21:19 CEST 2001 from spider-wj071.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.51)

JTULL FAN

Peter V. :Check out Taj Mahal's recent Live with the Hula Blues Band (or something like that) it came out in '99 or '00 I think and it is worth the price.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 01:57:15 CEST 2001 from ip-209-23-0-225.modem.logical.net (209.23.0.225)

rich

CALVIN: No, you sure aren't trahing lh. I agrrewith your rationale, as I, too still attend barnburner concerts, most recently at the bnan dyker, and have all of his solos. You're right, he cn "COVER" a mean song, but when it comes to innovation and writing the other band members each in his own way, stand out...In my opinion, LH was sang lead on an inordinate # of songs, bvut nver, heard the others complain, although RM, in my humble opinion should have had more leads, as I believe the record proves his voice to be the best, far and away.

Posted on Mon Sep 10 01:46:58 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti024.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.159)

Calvin

Considering Garth and Rick have appeared on both of RR's non Native American solo albums I doubt they buy into the fued. I did wonder how they handled it, I had a situation a few years back where 2 close friends werent on speaking terms for over a year, it was a horrible strain on all their mutual friends. Amanda, I hope I wasn't one who offended you, I still believe that just because I think Rick, RR and Garth are more creative and visionary musicians that Levon post Band years isn't a slam at Levon. Just because I like John's post Beatles work more than Paul's doesn't mean I'm slamming Paul does it? I like Levon I have 4 of his solo Albums, I saw him live as recently as last summer, I just liked Robbie and Rick more, I'm am sorry, but bewildered if some people find that offensive. As for playing in Bars, quite a few R&R HOFers are now playing in Bars, I've seen the Temps in a bar, Dave Davies of the Kinks in a bar. I can't even count the number of Jazz and Blues greats I've seen in a bar. Sadly popularity and the music I like rarely go hand in Hand. But for the record, I LIKE LEVON, I BUY HIS ALBUMS, I GO TO HIS SHOWS, I am not trashing him when I say I like his solo work the least. Am I?

Posted on Mon Sep 10 00:53:51 CEST 2001 from 1cust97.tnt2.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.108.97)

HI

Richard Manuel played at the Horsemen Saloon in Mt Tremper in or around 1985...he had a group of local musicians that included guys from Tom Pacheco's band....he did at least a couple of his own "new" tunes...does anyone know if a tape of that or other solo type gigs exist?

Posted on Mon Sep 10 00:05:54 CEST 2001 from ip-209-23-4-15.modem.logical.net (209.23.4.15)

rich

dave the drummer: I agree, there is no need for invectives or epithets from tennessee or from anyone else, for that matter, to express one's opinion; however, TN's insight is keen indded, and right on! On the other hand, your "knee jerk" assessment of RR's "guilt by omission" is totally without merit, I respectfully submit. What is the factual basis of such an assertion? Cl;early, there is none. This "DITTOHEAD" mantra that RR is a conniver has isits sole origin in LH's mind. Life is too short to hold grudges! If anyone should appreciate that maxim, LH surely should given his recent health problems. It's just sickening to see RR habitually maligned willy nilly in this plaace without any just cause. so, give it up, please!

Posted on Sun Sep 9 23:45:36 CEST 2001 from cl3017108-b.mdsn1.wi.home.com (65.3.255.9)

Tim(SUNDOG)Corcoran

Put a lid on it dude,,kids read this stuff,,take it to e-mail. ((("BWNWIT: WHAT IF....... you had the balls to tell Levon to his FACE what you so boldly type in this GB ???? Why not E-mail Butch and have him put you in touch with Levon ???? He'd straighten your ass out PRONTO.")))

Posted on Sun Sep 9 23:37:26 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-020.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.20)

Peter Viney

Sorry, third post in a row. You know, it's permissible to like Robbie's solo stuff AND like Levon's solo stuff. Well, I've had no problem with it.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 23:36:19 CEST 2001 from ip-209-23-4-15.modem.logical.net (209.23.4.15)

rich

does anybody know if the release of any recordings of r. manuel are forthcoming?

Posted on Sun Sep 9 23:32:35 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-te052.proxy.aol.com (64.12.103.172)

Dave ~ (the drummer)

Hey Rich: Go back and read BWNWIT's first post. How would you feel if someone referred to you as a "pitiful bastard," among other choice slanderous things???? Obviously, this has become a PERSONAL thing with TENN. Maybe he should handle it PERSONALLY...not in this GB.

Butch E-mailed me to tell me that BWNWIT already contacted him so maybe he took my advice.

As far as the feud is concerned, it's easy to be complacent and complimentary when you're holding all the cards. I agree with Craig. RR's silence is not so much politeness as guilt by omission.

Peter: thank you for directing us to the Telarc releases.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 23:27:12 CEST 2001 from ip-209-23-4-15.modem.logical.net (209.23.4.15)

rich

Posted on Sun Sep 9 23:20:42 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-132.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.132)

Peter Viney

I forgot the thread. I reckon (a) failing to see Bob Marley's Lyceum show that became "Live!"- they say that if everyone who claims to have been there actually had been there, it would have filled The Lyceum ten times over (b) not going to see the Rolling Stones at Eel Pie island in 1964 (c) not going to see Jefferson Airplane at the Roundhouse in 1970 (?) … but worse, far worse … declining friends' suggestions to go and see Dylan at the Albert Hall in 1966, people had said going electric was a mistake … and … oh, shit. I didn't go anyway.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 23:13:31 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-132.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.132)

Peter Viney

Picked up an excellent Telarc blues sampler- Blues for a Rotten Afternoon. It has guest spots by Ry Cooder, Taj Mahal & lead tracks by Mart Grebb and Maria Muldauer. Levon seems to be doing sessions on other Telarc abums (see What's New). A notable track is Levon's old favourite 'Why are people like that' in what seems to be a new version by Junior Wells aided by Derek Trucks. Nice label. Nice cover even.

Any news of the Hubert Sumlin album with Levon yet?

Posted on Sun Sep 9 23:07:17 CEST 2001 from ip-209-23-4-15.modem.logical.net (209.23.4.15)

rich

hey dave the drummer: lighten up a little... tennessee makes a valid point. Levon obviously holds serious grudges. He's great!!! don't get me wrong, but he's ostensibly very stubborn.... I've never yet heard RR bad mouth him..., but LHs diatribes on the evils of RR continue... I remember rick's funeral. I didn't see levon eulogize rick, but robbie flew in from cal. to do so.... and it was certainly heartfelt. In fact, when robbie spoke, LH mysteriously disappeared from his front row seat at the bearsville theatre. Moreover, I've new heard RD, GH or RM ever saying anying negative about RR. It would seem that LH is merely spitting out pieces of his broken luck. (apologies of Ian Anderson. RMs interview with Ruth is prophetic as to this great groups demise.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 21:36:53 CEST 2001 from spider-wd051.proxy.aol.com (205.188.193.171)

Dave ~ (the drummer)

BWNWIT: WHAT IF....... you had the balls to tell Levon to his FACE what you so boldly type in this GB ???? Why not E-mail Butch and have him put you in touch with Levon ???? He'd straighten your ass out PRONTO.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 21:31:12 CEST 2001 from spider-wn014.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.154)

JTULL FAN

I've made three great mistakes: not seeing Zappa with my brother in the late '80's because of something stupid like going out with a girl (whose name I can't even remember, so it definately was not worth it), not going to see Joe Cocker /Stevie Ray Vaughan in the summer of '90, weeks before the helicopter crash, and not going to see the Dead because 'I'll catch them next year'.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 21:02:54 CEST 2001 from maxtnt-2-127.enter.net (208.137.245.91)

KZR

There are several bands that I never had the chance to see because I either wasn't born yet or I was too young. If I had a time machine, I would definitely park it on 11/25/76. This was a month before my 2nd birthday. It would've been nice to witness this historic moment and see more than what we see in the movie. I think I would travel to 1969 and stop at Woodstock just to see the Band and maybe Jimi, the Who, and CSN. I would then stop and see Pink Floyd during their 1977 tour. I would probably pick the show where Roger Waters spit on a fan. I'd probably go see Lynyrd Skynyrd, too. I'd also like to see the Band when they were with Ronnie Hawkins.

However, I'm stuck in the present, so I can only dream.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 20:07:13 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-119-160.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.119.160)

BWNWITennessee

I hate to tell you this, but the reason why we keep talking about the feud is because Levon keeps talking about it. He is the one that created this, and if it wasn't for him none of us would be aware of it. If he would just get over it, or sue Robbie like he says he wants to, or publically say that he just kind of overreacted, we would all be able to stop talking about this. He's the one that started it, and he's the only one that can end it. I don't think all his supporters realize that sometimes. Believe me, I say to myself sometimes that I'm not going to post anything else about the feud, but then people just say these things without any basis other than "that's what Levon said," and I just have to jump in. For the people that don't like this topic, just accept that it's going to keep going on, just like political/abortion/gun control debates. The only person that really has the power to put an end to all this is Levon.

On another topic, I'll try to start a thread. See if it works. Are there any bands that you wanted to see and never were able to, and now it's too late? It has to be something that you would have had the possiblity to go to, so no "Beethovens" or "Buddy Boldens." Obviously, the range is going to be different for some of us than others - I can't say Jimi Hendrix, while someone else can. And it has to be someone that you had wanted to see but were unable, not someone that you got into later on, after they were gone. But let me see - I really wanted to see the Mavericks, and they're broken up now, so that's not going to happen. I wanted to see Danny Gatton, and never got the chance. I'll put Robbie as almost being in this category. I was in DC once when he was doing a performance, and I didn't know. Maybe I can still see him sometime. I am glad that I saw the Dead, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Doc Watson, and The Band. The Band was one where they were playing for a long time in the '80s and '90s, and I never had a chance to see them until the Jericho tour.

Okay, anyone else wanna play the "what if?" game?

Posted on Sun Sep 9 19:22:34 CEST 2001 from spider-wo013.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.23)

Charlie Young

Sometimes it pays to be known as a guy who still has a turntable: my brother recently helped a friend move and was rewarded with about 300 vinyl LPs that he promptly gave to me. There was not only a complete run of near-mint copies of all the original albums by The Band, but also related recordings such as the first Jesse Winchester on the Ampex label, the first Bobby Charles (which I've never even heard before)and--the biggest surprise--the original Rubber Dubber label two record set bootleg of The Band Live at the Hollywood Bowl in 1970. There were also several Paul Butterfield albums, Roy Buchanan, Danny Gatton and lots of other great stuff. I may even have to replace my ancient Canadian turntable...

Posted on Sun Sep 9 18:36:19 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-137.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.137)

Peter Viney

Third Man Theme- Eddie Cochran also did this as Fourth Man Theme. I asked about this before- I think it first appeared on "Legendary Masters" in 1971 and was one from the vaults. Anyone know about earlier release?

Posted on Sun Sep 9 18:19:10 CEST 2001 from dax21.revealed.net (208.16.227.164)

Mike

Yesterday I received a copy of The Beatles bootleg set "The Complete Get Back/Let It Be sessions" (17 cd's worth!) Contained within is a performance of the "Third Man Theme", as well as the rooftop performance and producer Glyn Johns submitted but REFUSED version the "Get Back/Let It Be" album. Back to "Third Man Theme" I never even knew that The Beatles ever tackled this recording. To my ears it sounds like it was a spontaneous thing. I've never heard the original, just The Band's version. That's all I had to compare it to. John and George do seem to be really getting into the song, while Paul adds some gentle bass lines. It's just a simple and gentle performance. I guess I was suprised when I saw the tracklist for the set and saw "Third Man Theme". So, naturally I had to play that song first! I can't say that it's better or worse than The Band's cover of it. Why?! Simply because it's neither. It's just different. And good! So, I guess there is a Band/Beatles connection (in a weird roundabout way!). Yes, I know there are others. If you're interested in hearing it, let me know. I can upload it on the net for you. All in all, an interesting choice of a cover for The Beatles to do. Peace.

PS,

JD, great post! really made me think. It's all about the music man!

Mike

Posted on Sun Sep 9 17:58:03 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-070.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.70)

Peter Viney

John D’s post shows why he’s such a vital contributor to this site. Pleased to see you back, John!

The Band’s greatness is that they were such different individuals working together. This is why we all linger on the Robbie-Levon dichtomy or opposition or feud. They represent two different people, two different attitudes and approaches that came together. Levon explains in his book that it’s not a whole lot of fun for a drummer to go out on his own. In spite of that, the tapes I’ve heard of Danko / Helm in the 80s (when he moved to guitar / mandolin) are great. Danko / Manuel too. Danko / Manuel / Hudson too. With all the fuss about camera angles in TLW, it’s instructive that the two guys who were standing up at the front (throughout the Band’s career) felt most comfortable about going it alone. Rick was also ready to go it alone in 76. I’d guess he achieved a different satisfaction from solo and D/F/A gigs than he did with The Band – hence the bored look in the boogie numbers towards the end. The fact that Rick didn’t play bass so much towards the end is part of it. Like a drummer, a bass player can’t do solo gigs. There’s a satisfaction when a group of people collaborate to a purpose. A different satisfaction when you work alone. Levon gets more out of the group enterprise. Robbie doesn’t do solo stuff in the way that Rick did his live solo stuff actually. He works with teams of very accomplished musicians when he records, but I suppose there’s never any question about who has the final say. Robbie’s mentioned the day The Band had booked a studio and no one else turned up except him. When you’re calling all the shots on a recording, people do turn up, and he must have got fed up of a democracy. This has been trawled through dozens of times, but it was Levon and The Hawks. Levon left. When he came back, they already had most of the basement work under their belts. Whatever they said over the next few years, that must have shifted the balance irrevocably. I don’t imagine that Robbie keeps quiet because he has anything to hide, but because he genuinely thinks fondly of The Band without feeling the need to go out and be in the situation. It may be blasphemous to say so here, but Manu Katche is also a first-rate drummer. Tony Levin is a great bass player. Bruce Hornsby a fine pianist. As a musician, I’m sure he enjoyed what they all gave to a track. The Band had started adding other musicians – horn sections, Larry Packer’s violin, Billy Mundi’s drumming after the third album. This wasn’t Boyzone or The Spice Girls where fans have to believe the group is unbreakable and eternal. These were and are mature musicians who enjoy playing with others – just read the credits on ‘Jubilation’.

On the big halls, I recall that The Band played Carnegie Hall as late as High on the Hog launch. Isn’t that right?But even in 1974 The Band were relegated to supporting CSN rather than headlining. I remember how much magazine space Robbie got for Storyville and Music From ‘The Native Americans’ so I suspect that Robbie could fill a very select number of large halls (e.g. Toronto, New York, London) because there’d be a lot of coverage to bring him back to everyone’s attention, and he’d have the sense to make it an interesting package – as Agrigento was. i.e. Not ‘Robbie Robertson live” but (for example) Robbie Robertson Presents Music for the Native Americans with The Coolidges, Ulali, John Trudell, Buffy Ste Marie, with dancing and authentic Native American music. Plus the electronic sounds of Howie B … and so on. I have a friend who teaches Native American lore and dancing, and I was interested to meet people in their 20s who’ve heard of Robbie but not of The Band. He does have another constituency out there! The other answer would be to do one of these double-header tours. If so, may I suggest Bob Dylan rather than Van Morrison? Both would work, but in the former combination he wouldn’t be facing so much competition on the vocal front! But if he doesn’t get the kick from performing live, why bother?

No more news of Nikki Love, then. I'm trusting Crabgrass to keep us up to date.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 17:24:07 CEST 2001 from spider-wk013.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.153)

butch

Last night, in Pawling , NY,,,, The GURUS rocked !!!!!!!!!!Im sure there was seismic activity recorded in eastern Dutchess Co,,,, cause they set the earth a quakin',,,, Randy & Malcolm are one of the funkiest rhythm sections,, Mal's playing is FLUID & well, Rando is RANDO !!!!!!!!!!!! Weider had Sid McGuinness, from the David Letterman band sitting in & the twin guitars were blazing,,, they were trading leads, like the Allmans, back when they were still good,,,,,\, Jeremy "atom" Baum had his road chops after a month with shemikia copeland,, but the true star was the music,,,,,

This band works hard @ the arrangements & the singing parts, & it shows,,,

The new tunes, really are working in the set,,, & you wanna talk about JAMS,,,, these cats go DEEP into the groove & just when ya think they aint never coming back to the root,, there are those chords,, on Jimmys TELE,, & BOOM !!!!! theyre back,,, Great to see,,,,,

G-Man, Donna Barn Burner Bill, the firefighter from yonkers, & all the other regulars gave the fellas a STANDING "O",, & off into the night we went,,, Fantastic Night,, thanks fellas,,,,,,,,

Posted on Sun Sep 9 16:55:26 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti014.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.154)

Amanda...again

Hank....you are the best! You have such a gift of words and can keep things so light and lifted. I am often way too serious and intense. I think folks like you are truly admirable.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 16:45:50 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti014.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.154)

Amanda

I did not degrade or insult anyone on this GB. I am sorry if the 2,500 capacity venue thing was considered a cutdown. I respect what RR brought to The Band. I know that it would not have been the same without him. I have never once brought up the "feud" and never will. I wasn't there and I don't have enough information to form any kind of validated opinion.

Twilight: I have the utmost respect and faith in myself and what I believe in. I do get offended here sometimes. Am I the only one??? I get tired of reading insults directed at Band members and at other GBers. I think most people here have lots to say about various issues. It is hard, sometimes, to get your point across, without ruffling someone's feathers. We are all different people coming from different places and experiences (words of wisdom from Bayou Sam). I think it would be great to meet any of you at a show and discuss this stuff face to face. How often do you meet people that are even into this subject anyway? I am not hiding behind anything or pretending to be something I'm not.

BWNWITT: Levon's feelings for RR have only slightly effected me. I can form my own opinions about quite a number of issues. I was born and grew up in a little town in Arkansas called Blytheville. It is only about half an hour from Helena. I knew who Levon was before I ever became familiar with The Band. I identify with him more than I do the other four members. It is always kind of cool when someone from your neck of the woods has a career of such caliber. I am not disgusted or bitter about any member of The Band. I am sorry that you apparently are.

Diamond Lil: You are correct when you say that the RR/Levon issue doesn't really matter when you look at the big picture. Their legacy is a gift to all of us....those are lovely words.

John D. and Brien SZ: Thanks....you made it all clear for me.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 16:38:27 CEST 2001 from spider-wa073.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.53)

JTULL FAN

HANK: I'll tell you why you should see Jethro Tull in December, whether you love 'em, hate 'em, or are indifferent to 'em. Think back to all the groups and artists active in the late '60's to to the mid '70's. How many are left? How much longer will they be around? look at all who we lost and discussed out here lately: Chet Atkins, John Lee Hooker, etc. You can't see the Band anymore, or Danko and Manuel playing a bar together, or the Dead etc. etc. Jethro Tull is one of the dwindling amount of dinosaurs you can still see, and who knows for how much longer. So in honor of the whole dinosaur species, go, have a few beers, and enjoy. The show usually consists of 1/2 oldies, 1/4 new stuff, 1/8 solo projects they play live, and 1/8 real forgotten old stuff they decide to play live for the first time after 30 years. Let me know how you like it when you go.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 16:06:57 CEST 2001 from dialup-098.cork.iol.ie (194.125.43.98)

Hank

Here's something....can someone PLEASE tell me the difference between What Levon Helm is doing and What Ringo Starr is doing?........They're BOTH playing drums in bands that play covers and standards..........No big difference...right?

....I never claimed to invent dots.......they were here on my keyboard.......God invented dots.....I used them for pauses in thought when I couldn't paragraph........

Now I paragraph.........

Jan is so cool that he paragraphed a couple of posts for me when I first statred posting....Thanx, Jan!.......

....but I still use dots....for pause.....and emphasis......know what I mean?.........

Peter Vineys Breakdown of Concert Venues in The UK was an example of how cool this Web-Site is. As far as I can determine, Peters post was a response to an earlier post and thread from JTull Fan....I think........anyway.....it's great reading.....and that's all there is to it.......if you dig it......Some people HATE the love and awe The Band inspire......I'm afraid I have to say THAT'S great reading, too....just my opinion....it don't bother me none........

John D point about Levon being in The Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame and playing Bars was great......Now THERE'S a list to compile!.....how many Hall of Famers are out playing in bars?... so to speak.......Lemme see.....I know one .......Levon Helm!........Anyone else?........Could you classify where Ringo gigs as "bars"?....I betcha everyone of the venues he gigs has a bar or bar facility

It should be pointed out that Butch is always posting how Levon and The Barnburners play blues Fests. from time to time...........big crowds.......you know...... concert situations......Crabby posted wonderful pictures of Levon in Central Park last year........Also, I've seen video footage of The BBs...... it's not like walking into a Monday night loose boogie jam/open mike night....... for a start, they've got Levon Helm playing drums..........

Jethro Tull are playing in Cork in December.......should I go, folks?.......

Even tho' RR speaks highly of Levon and the rest of The Band......you NEVER hear him complain about the business deals that went down in their wake.......I've read where he sez TLW made no money for him or The Band.....that's probably true, but there's more to The Band than TLW.....Silence speaks volumes............RR ain't got nothin to complain about.....which is alright, too.........but this feud/schism ain' t gonna end until RR DIRECTLY addresses some of the business issues that Levon has........ The day AFTER he does that is the day to check out The GB, I tell ya........

Hey, anyone reckon RR would say yes to Ringo if Ringo asked him to do a few gigs?......THAT I would LOVE to hear........

Posted on Sun Sep 9 13:37:55 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp222.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.222)

Diamond Lil

John D: Thanks for your insightful post. And on a personal note..thanks for coming back :)

Can someone answer a question for me? I have a real problem with this all this Robbie/Levon stuff (which has been done to death and is _never_ going to be settled to everyone's satisfaction). Why does this matter? I'd really like to hear from someone who can nicely explain to me why this is all so important? We have the _music_..which regardless of who wrote what.. was a gift from all of them. I'd like to think _that's_ their legacy.
So..if anyone can explain to me why hashing this out over and over again is in any way important or productive, I'd really like to know. Thanks.

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 10:15:26 CEST 2001 from sqd40.nirai.ne.jp (202.239.129.43)

Fred

Feud-Smeud!!! I think Guenevere may be onto something,i.e. Van Morrison, lost luggage and the "borrowing" one of Neil Diamond's outfits...hmm...speaking of Van Morrison...not having the vast knowledge about the Belfast Cowboy, other than owning a Greatest Hits CD...has he ever collaborated with Mose Allison and was anyhting ever put to vinyl?

Posted on Sun Sep 9 09:53:01 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-119-148.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.119.148)

Ain't Got No Wife In Alabama Neither In Tennessee

KZR, your last post illustrates why I've become so disgusted with Levon Helm. I have a feeling that the majority of the people that dislike Robbie Robertson do so solely because of Levon's accusations against him. They take one person's opinions, very eccentric ones at that, and buy into them lock, stock and barrel. And maybe because they met Levon once after a show, and because Robbie isn't as salt-of-the-earth and uses big words and has more money, they decide to believe that Robbie is sleazy and back-stabbing and his music sucks. His diatribes (hey, THERE'S a new word for the feud) really are having a negative effect on people's feelings about Robbie. I'm sure that pretty much everyone here who dislikes Robbie does so simply because of Levon; and maybe they can find a sentence or two from Rick to back up their belief. Meanwhile, Robbie has only positive things to say about anyone in The Band, and people even find ways to use that against him!

And I think it's time that we realize that Levon's Robbie-bashing is only one small aspect of the man's anger. He bitches about Capitol for screwing him, Albert Grossman's estate for getting all of The Band's money (?!), the record companies that The Band was signed to in the '90s for not giving them enough money to make a decent record, the Beatles for being the "teacher's pets" (?!). The man has got some serious anger management problems that he really should deal with. According to some articles I read on this site, even some of his friends (like Ronnie H.) try to tell him he needs to get over this thing with Robbie. There is obviously some bigger issues at work in this guy than just Robbie Robertson; he just seems to be the ground that a lot of his venom spills on.

If you want to get a real idea about the guy, read the article "Levon Helm Looks Back In Anger," from the Dallas Observer, on the Library page of this site. I mean, I feel bad that the man has such issues. And I regret the fact that I used to care about him, I used to think he was the coolest guy in The Band, and now I just think he's a pitiful jerk. But like I said, I think there are a lot of people that really dislike Robbie Robertson, and don't buy his records, solely because of what Levon Helm says about him. And considering that Robbie Robertson never says anything bad about Levon Helm, I just find that disgusting. (Well, Robbie did say that he called Levon on the phone back in '93 when he was working on the boxed set and suggested that they play some music together sometime, and Levon said, "Yeah, sure, sounds great," without mentioning that he had just written a book stabbing Robbie in the back. Boy, what an honorable and decent person Levon sounds like.)

But finally, I found this Levon quote from the Dallas article - "If you got a lawyer that can sue the motherfuckers — I ain't got that money myself — and knows how to sue them, you tell him I'll split it with him. They're fucking thieves." Okay, now, there must be someone out there in GB land, some Robbie hater, who knows some attorney that is willing to work pro bono for Levon and sue Robbie. Hell, Levon even said they could keep half the money! And it's a chance to work with a Rock and Roll Hall of famers, and get tons of free publicity, break into big-time entertainment law. It would be an excellent opportunity. Think of the exposure if you won! Surely someone out there is friends with a lawyer that can help Levon with this matter that's so important to him. And we all know his road manager, so it won't be a problem getting the name of the attorney to Levon. Maybe then it would finally be time for the bastard to put up or shut up.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 08:23:17 CEST 2001 from du86-249.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.249.86)

Ilkka

JOHN D: Thanks for your latest post!

Posted on Sun Sep 9 07:39:35 CEST 2001 from 06-109.018.popsite.net (216.126.149.109)

Guenevere

Do you think we could get that Neil Diamond discussion going again?

I have no way a verifying it, but personally I think that Van Morrison borrowed the outfit he wore in TLW from Neil due to lost luggage.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 07:32:49 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.68.106.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.68.106)

Pat Brennan

Bayou Sam, I don't know if you noticed it or meant it or what, but the first line of your post has Dylan written all over it. Honestly, very well done.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 07:10:20 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tc024.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.159)

Bayou Sam

For cryin' out loud - stop whining, analyzing, comparing to death, pitting against, putting down, and trying to impress. - Please.

I've been visiting this guestbook for several years now, and this is the first time that I scrolled through and it turned me off.

Shit - I'll try again tomorrow.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 07:06:33 CEST 2001 from proxy-1311.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.220.140)

Ed Blayzor

This months issue of Guitar World Acoustic has a short but interesting interview with Robbie Robertson talking about the role of the acoustic guitar in The Band`s music.Also of note is the Stephen Stills interview and a brief review of the new Dylan. Peace

Posted on Sun Sep 9 06:36:08 CEST 2001 from pm703-20.dialip.mich.net (204.39.231.126)

twilight

It's amazing that there are still people out there who think that they can direct the content of this guestbook with the idea that this is "supposed to be a peaceful place about a peaceful band". Yeah, that's part of it - but by nature this site will continue to reflect what goes on in the real world through the eyes of real people. There's nothing inherently wrong with searching for peace, but it only exists within in this life. If someone decides to constantly remind us that "the wife and I are building a house" or "I listen to Rush Limbaugh", there is a chance that they might have to take some hits for being so revealing. The criticizms of those who "hide behind their pc's" can be leveled at those who post constantly when really have nothing to say. Bring something interesting to the table - you might launch an interesting discussion. Blather about your own special interests with hopes that you might start a thread, you might have to take some hits. Anyone who has faith in themselves and a measure of self-respect will not be "offended" or "appalled" by anything that appears in this book. These are just words. They are not arrows or sticks or stones. If you really want to know where someone is coming from, search the archives and read. It's all right there.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 06:21:22 CEST 2001 from proxy1.cambr1.on.home.com (24.2.9.42)

Craig

Well said, John D.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 06:00:14 CEST 2001 from spider-wg044.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.39)

Brien Sz

Whether playing for 50 or 50,000, as long as he's havin' fun, i don't think Levon cares where he's playin' at, once he's beind that kit, it's all music. I've seen him perform in various configurations of the Band, Barnburners, Ringo and on video doing The Wall, he's always had an enormous grin on his face. God Bless Him for loving what he does - half of us (if not more) can only wish we could be blessed with doing something we love for a living, everyday.

RR I'm sure is doing the exact same in his own way. What words Levon has for RR are his.., only they know the truth and i'm sure by now both parties have a twinge of revisionist history going on.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 05:01:45 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

All right. I have to jump in here if I may. Let’s go back 40 years or so and look at 5 individuals that were brought together by Ronnie Hawkins. 5 individuals; with their own personalities, strengths, weaknesses and peculiarities. Something that all of us have on this planet. What was different about these 5 individuals is that when they played together they become 1. They were in my estimation the tightest, loosest band in the world. They appeared loose and fancy free on stage; but they knew note for note, like jazz musicians in a jam; where the music was taking them at all times.

Robbie was called “The Duke.” Why? Because he had an attitude about him. He wore scarves around his neck and walked with his head high as the Duke of Cabbagetown with his loyal disciples who were bar patrons. He had aspirations then; although cloudy; but aspirations that something very great would happen to him one day. I say “him” because I have no way of crawling into his mind and wondering if it was personal aspirations or those of the Hawks. I tend to believe in hindsight that it was an individual feeling.

I’m not even going to pretend on what Garth, Richard or Rick were thinking. I have no inkling.

Levon, on the other hand was a blue collar working musician who had gotten out of laboring in the fields and factories for the rest of his life by finding the drums. At what point he realized he was pretty good at playing them, no one but Levon will ever know. It is my belief in knowing him for years that leaving the fields and playing rock and roll and letting the girls run their fingers through his blond curly hair was just about right for this young man at that time. I don’t believe he was looking for stardom or to make a million dollars back them. Just “let’s get on the road and make some damn fine music."

As luck would have it……through their timeframe with Hawkins and especially with Dylan, they became “The Band.” Now Robbie might have envisioned this in one form or another ; but again I believe Levon was happy just to be playing with these guys and making that drum kit talk. It could have been at Le Coq’dor or Carnegie Hall. At this point I don’t want anyone to read anything into my comments about Levon to indicate that he was not ambitious. On the contrary. He had ambition then and now; but I believe it was to be a better and strong drummer and eventually a singer. As he said to me after the cancer had attacked his vocal chords, “Hey John D. I never intended to be a singer. I’m a drummer and that’s what I do best.”

Like a marriage……here were 5 guys thrown together in musical matrimony. The fact that it lasted 16 years was certainly good for us as those who appreciate the music. We all know there have been bands that have lasted much longer. Just look to Mick, Keith and Charley of The Stones. 40 years together. Bill Wyman is in town this week and he says that he played the same songs night after night for over 25 years. If he had stayed with The Stones he would have played them for another 10 years. He’s happy to be on his own doing his own thing and he is still best friends with the other three. (By the way buy Wyman’s new book about the Delta Blues....it's great.) The difference in The Band’s musical marriage is that only one and maybe 2 wanted out. I say two because there was a strong rumor at the time that Rick was indeed ready for a change and a solo career. At one of the rehearsals at TLW he told me to watch for his solo record and that he was “real happy about it.” I believe that Richard for his reasons and Levon for his own reasons wanted the marriage to last. It’s like you come home one night and your wife or husband says “it’s over.” All the time you’ve felt the marriage was a pretty happy one. Sure there are ups and downs; but for the most part everything is going fine. I don’t know how Garth felt at the time.

The point of me dropping back and rehashing a little history that most of you know is this. Robbie working at Dreamworks and hanging out with the Hollywood types is not something that happened in his mind after TLW. He didn’t know the players; but there are many who believe that “The Duke” ended up where he wanted to be from the very beginning. The Band and his contribution to The Band was a way of getting there. Levon hasn’t stopped growing yet. However he is doing exactly what he wants to do at this moment in time. He said to me recently, “John if I could play 7 nights a week I would be a happy man.” This is a man who finds solace and dignity and supreme pleasure in what he does. Think about it. Here is a man in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that is happy working with a group of unknowns like The Barnburners and his dream is to make “them” known. Not for himself; but the other members. I don’t know how many times he’s told me he wants it for them. The Barnburners won’t be his last stop on his musical journey, in my estimation. Who knows what lies ahead. I believe that he & Garth could play with any famous musician in the world; but they want to do things on their terms. Right now for Levon, it’s being the best blues drummer there is and winning a “Handy” award for the Ronnie Earl Album.

Garth continues to elevate himself with his first solo CD this year. If I ever had a major frustration with the original 5 members, is that I only wish they had put out more albums; when they were together. I’ll settle for what they left us. Remember……that many of us end up in the place that we want to be………even if others do not understand. Others end up where they are for other reasons. Thanks for listening.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 04:17:06 CEST 2001 from spider-wo042.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.37)

Amanda

Calvin: I certainly respect your opinion. I agree that RR, Garth and Rick did a fabulous job of branching out to other musical interests. "Basic" and "stagnant" are not accurate descriptions of Levon Helm. NO...I don't think somebody has to be last...I don't agree with that at all!!

Posted on Sun Sep 9 04:07:45 CEST 2001 from 1cust124.tnt3.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.109.124)

Hi

Calvin who do you think you're kidding? Oh no you're not putting Levon down but then you say He's the most stagnant since 1976 and the last on the list of the group etc......

Posted on Sun Sep 9 03:58:12 CEST 2001 from spider-wo042.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.37)

Amanda

Wow...Brown Eyed Girl...you really are Mrs. Wobbie Wobbertson! The question you brought up about musicians who play in bars...would they continue this lifestyle or prefer another avenue? Did you mean would they prefer to branch out into other styles or positions or would they just like to be famous? I am sure that most of them would like to get that big break. Any type of artist...musician, novelist, painter...deep down wants recognition of the art that they put their hearts into. I don't think fame and fortune (or size of audience) defines the caliber of the artist. There are several musicians that visit the GB. I wonder what they think???? I don't think someone is any less a performer because he plays in a bar or sticks to his roots. Many artists, of various musical styles, that have been around for the last 30-40 years are out there on the road somewhere at all kinds of venues. It is the only life they know. It is as much a part of them as breathing the air and drinking the water.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 03:01:54 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp263752.sympatico.ca (64.230.40.151)

brown eyed girl

ROBBIE could easily fill a 2500 seater venue like Massey Hall......plus all the Cabbagetown Gals and Road Warriors would be there....... :-D........no question about it!..............

And speaking of Cabbagetown and cover bands..........As soon as I walked a block from where I live I saw "Out Of The Blue"......I sighed.......yes a sign Robbie is here in spirit...........(Sorry.........I just love to bug G-Man and the other Road Warriors........after all they call me Mrs.Wobbie Wobbertson now.........I FEEL SO HONOURED!)...............anyway.......I continued to walk through new Cabbagetown and remembered that a local musician who lives in Cabbagetown as well and plays the blues performs every Monday night at The Silver Dollar......(Rollie I saw Carlos Del Junco was there in June).......

It crossed my mind.......would this musician who continues to play in bars prefer to continue this musical lifestyle or would he have preferred the opportunity to explore other avenues of creativity?........

I still remember Ronnie Hawkins stating clearly in a Hawkins Special that when he met Robbie he saw him as a very hip street kid who had musical aspirations and a vision.............and I always saw him as beating to his own drum..........and as far as Redboy is concerned...............depressing? No way............his music reverberates throughout your body..............and as I have posted many times he teases the listener with his brilliance.........the guitar licks are so tasteful and liberating.............but he stops just as soon as he hypnotizes you..................

As far as I see Levon now..........he prefers to beat on his own drum too...........but it's a different drum.......he has always said that as a drummer you need other musicians to continue playing.......Robbie could write and play guitar and see pictures in his head................that's why his lyrics tell such great stories...........so he had other options.............different drums......both valid however........

BTW........I have always used ..............mine just aren't as loud as Hank's......... ;-D

Posted on Sun Sep 9 02:56:23 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tb083.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.58)

calvin

Amanda I have never once in my opinion been critical of Levon. I simply said that He is playing exactly the same music he was in 1976. Basic bar blues, he does it quite well and there isn't a thing wrong with that. However, Robbie, Garth and Rick all have/had stretched themselves in different directions in their post Band careers. Garth recent album and soundtrack work, Robbie's albums and soundtrack work, and Rick's albums with the trio show them as artists who were/are still growing. But the fact is Levon's music is the same as it was when he released the RCO All-Stars album. It is good music, great on a track or two, but he seems certainly the most stagnant to me and the Bandmate who had the least to offer post 1976. This doesn't mean I don't like him, but somebody has to be last don't they. As for my comment that Robbie could be playing to 2,500 if he wanted to, reread what I said. I said if he had continued in the vein that his first 2 albums were and he hadn't had veared off into Native American music or back into soundtracks. Robbie's first album probably sold more than the rest of his bandmate's stuff ever did, combined. BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN I THINK IT WAS BETTER. IT MEANS HE WAS MUCH MORE ADAPT AT TAPPING INTO A COMERCIAL SOUND. which was my original point. And again, I have never, ever, ever said that Levon's post Band work wasn't worthy, just that I felt Rick and RObbie's were certainly better. But not as good as does not equate bad.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 02:47:12 CEST 2001 from proxy1.cambr1.on.home.com (24.2.9.42)

Craig

Matt- I didn't think I was insulting RR's fans. I was just responding to Calvin's comments. I guess that's what happens here a lot. Just like a referee in Hockey. They frequently only see the retaliator NOT the instigator. Calvin cut up Levon clearly, in favour of RR. I felt it was an unfair and misguided comment. I can personally "guarantee" (as if that was at all possible)that if RR came to his old stomping grounds (read Toronto)with a show, it would be a very low tier venue with a high %age of the crowd being old friends and fans hoping for a little of the "old" playing etc. A high %age of them would also expect/hope RR was travelling with a lead singer too. Something I think you should keep in mind. When someone makes a post with a opinionated comment, it's not an insult to react and comment on it. I'm not a fan of RR, true, I remember when the boyz were knock down drag out great without him when he was lugging amps and mic stands. They were much better with him on guitar too. He was "The 6 Stringer", The Man then. But my reply was in reaction to Matt implying that RR has large marketing pull with his solo efforts. Sorry, it ain't true. Levon is doing what he needs to do and was "built to do". And doing it damn well from all accounts. As for the old chestnut line that Levon mouths off while RR takes the high road and never makes a negative comment. I tend to go the direction of he who has incentive to keeping an issue quiet has the vested interest to not talking about it. Levon obviously doesn't want the issue quieted. RR seems to want it to die. I vote for the guy who wants disclosure. Just a personal opinion. I may be misguided but I am not viewing RR's silence as saintly. My choice to make, just like you have yours. Not trying to keep this conflict going, just commenting on a comment.

Posted on Sun Sep 9 02:18:23 CEST 2001 from spider-wb044.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.169)

Amanda

Calvin: Frankly, I think you are being a tad critical of Levon. Your earlier posts were a little more subtle, but have increasingly become more transparent. I have never bashed RR on this site. I did make fun of his hair once, but that was pretty mild. I don't think there is anything wrong with playing the music that is in your heart. Levon was raised on Delta Blues. Obviously that means something to him. Personally, I don't place too much value on Grammy nominations. As a person who truly has a love for music, I don't let Grammys determine what I think is "vital" (that word again) or "interesting." If I would have waited around for Bob Dylan to get a Grammy, I would have really missed out! I have to say......I hardly imagine that RR could play a venue of 2,500 at this time. He has been out of that loop for awhile. Levon is a multi-instrumentalist and has been part of hundreds of albums. I would say that is quite "substantial." What's wrong with playing in a bar? I have seen Buddy Guy, Willie Nelson, Bo Didley, Robert Lockwood, Jr. and The Ramones....ONLY in bars. Are these musicians not substantial, vital or interesting? These are also artists that remain close to their musical roots. They haven't "stretched" into other categories. That doesn't mean that they have stopped growing or evolving within their own musical style. Let's take it a step deeper. How about all those, musicians, singers and songwriters all over this world....the ones that never make it big, that never get Grammy nominations, never play in venues of 2,500 capacity...that never play in bars for that matter? What about the beautiful lyrics and chords they write and play on their back porch every night? Are they not substantial, vital and interesting? Calvin, I think you let yourself get a little too narrow. I always try to look at the big picture in relation to what opinions I form.

I am sorry this is so long....I just felt the need to speak up.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 23:53:58 CEST 2001 from spider-wm034.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.164)

butch

FOLKS !!!!!

The Barn Burners website that you stumbled on was just a test site.

It is not a "working" site,,,

Thanks to the 1000 folks who hit it in the last couple of days,,,,helps us to re-think it,, nice response,,,

Thanks to Tony & Dawn for their incredible assistance & work,,,

When its up & running , i'll ask jan to link us,,, or i will post it here,,,

sorry for the misunderstanding,,,

butch & The Barn Burners,,,,,,,,,,

Posted on Sat Sep 8 23:32:34 CEST 2001 from 1cust80.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.80)

rollie

Levon? RR? .Why do you people bother? My band whups ass on both of those has beens!!!!!!!!!!!(chuckle,chuckle!!)

Posted on Sat Sep 8 23:31:09 CEST 2001 from spider-wl013.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.23)

JTULL FAN

Feweds and things. The closest the RR/Band fued correlation I think is the Roger Waters/Pink Floyd. I was a big fan of theres back in the mid-80's while in high school and remember getting really caught up in that bitter one, which is still ongoing. I remember later regreting it because it ruined all the music for me and I felt like a sucker for getting pulled into it. It's like a messy divorce where the parents involve the kids in picking sides. It's interesting to know the history of a group we all love so much, but there is a line where the artists shouldn't purposely get the fans involved and we shouldn't take the bait. It isn't our fight. It's like when you go to a good restaurant then use the restroom and see the 'employees must wash hands' sign. Contemplating whether they did or not spoils my meal. ditto with the business behind the music; if I wanted a fight with the finance people I can find that at work on Monday. Not to be a hippocrit, I've gotten caught up in this feud, but I think I'll sit out the next few rounds.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 23:21:07 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-023.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.23)

Peter Viney

Concert venues: Could Robbie fill a 2500 seater? Robbie’s live history is odd. He formed a first rate band for Seville, and a complete theatrical show for Agrigento (which I think was brilliant). In spite of the effort and rehearsal, neither line-up went on the road, though there were a series of TV appearances for the Native American line-up. With such a fine band (and backing vocalists) it was odd not to cash in to some extent.

I thought about the UK (the USA can’t be much different, just multiply by four or five). In the UK the top tier of artists play only 4 to 6 venues – I’m talking about Paul Simon, Springsteen, REM, i.e. London, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow, Newcastle, either Leeds or Sheffield. Not much different from 1966. The next tier of halls might number 15 and would include my local Bournemouth venue. Dylan and Van would play that, but that’s because they like smaller halls. They’d play the ‘first tier’ as well. K.D. Lang, Moody Blues, Macy Gray are examples in the last few years. Then you go to about thirty smaller (and funkier) venues – e.g. Forum in London, Cambridge Corn Exchange (both Band 1996 tour). Then it’s the clubs / fourth tier, where artists like Little Feat, AWB, Scotty Moore, Michelle Shocked have turned up. So where would you place Robbie in 2001? There’s the choice of three or four heavily advertised big ones in the first tier (as in Laurie Anderson’s forthcoming tour) or the second tier (but he wouldn’t sell 2000- 3000 tickets in Bournemouth) or there’s the third tier. That’s probably about right. But it wouldn’t be worth his effort. No way. That’s the dilemma. In the late 60s / early 70s, the universities were the core working tier. Not really any more. Bournemouth has a 3000 seater and a 1200 seater (and a 700 seater in Poole, four miles away). Dr John is playing the 1200 seater. Tickets have been on sale for about 6 weeks. I bought mine this week. I got dead centre, third row from the front. Does that tell you something? (Like, will it be cancelled?) I got centre front for k.d. lang (a sell out). Back row, right to one side for the Moody Blues.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 23:05:35 CEST 2001 from spider-we023.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.28)

calvin

Matt I don't mean to criticize Levon's work in anyway. But your right, he is very good at what he aspires to-which frankly is to be a good R&B band. What Levon is doing today isn't a lick different than what he did with the RCO All-Stars album, which Robbie played on BTW. And while I respect that choice, I don't think it makes him the stretching artist that RR is. And frankly his obsession with trashing RR while RR refuses to say anything bad about him leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 22:32:46 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Personally, Craig and Calvin, I find the whole notion of comparing Levon's success with RR's success ridiculous.

Levon's very successful at what he aspires to musically. I think Levon likes performing no matter what, and will continue to do so, no matter the venue, right into the rocking chair. He has lots and lots of fans who eagerly await seeing him play, myself included.

Robbie, for his part, is also very successful at what he does. He's built himself a musical career where he can focus on writing, producing, and film score composing/supervision. There are lots and lots of people who love his music and eagerly await each album. Myself included.

While I'd love to see him perform, I realize he doesn't perform simply because he doesn't enjoy it. Playing MSG or your local bar is an fathomable to him as it is for Levon to think of NOT performing. It has nothing to do with the quality of either's music.

It's childish to suggest otherwise. Why is it so necessary for this to be a comparison? Craig, why is it necessary to insult RR and his fans to express your love of Levon's music?

Posted on Sat Sep 8 22:03:03 CEST 2001 from atpm3-1-26.enter.net (208.137.243.36)

KZR

I read the RR interview with Ruth Albert Spencer. I think it changed my opinion of Robbie. He had absolutely nothing demeaning to say about the other Band members, including Levon. He even gave encouraging words to Mrs. Spencer about Levon and told her that she would enjoy interviewing Levon. Robbie never credited himself as being the sole creative force behind the Band. He mentioned that all five members contributed equally. Also, he said he didn't sing too many of the Band's songs because he wanted to get the other members involved. He didn't want to give people the impression that he was the Band. I don't think he was as selfish and pompous as many people think.

I too think this GB is getting out of hand. This is supposed to be a peaceful website about a peaceful band. But some people have nothing better to do than degrade and insult other people in an anonymous fashion while in the comfort of their home sitting in front of a computer screen. I bet they wouldn't say what say in this GB when confronted face to face with the people they write bad things about. Let's restore the warmth and friendship of this GB.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 21:21:17 CEST 2001 from stjhts24c043.nbnet.nb.ca (207.179.171.172)

Java

Pat Brennan, when did I said that Richard was less of a human being than anyone else? What I wrote has been well documented and is well known, ie:This Whells on Fire-Helm. I was speaking metaphorically. Are you so obtuse that you cannot tell the difference? You dinosaurs are so quick to jump to conclusions without comprehending what has been written. Hell, you all act like he was a personal friend of yours and that you knew him so well, what a laugh. You probably knew him about as well as I did. What a paranoid bunch!

Posted on Sat Sep 8 20:18:42 CEST 2001 from atmax-5-9.enter.net (207.16.153.203)

Little Brøther

Does anyone know where Ruth Albert Spencer is now, and whether she's heard of the Guestbook? I'd be interested in anything she'd have to say on the subject of the Band; my guess is that she'd take the "high road" and decline to feed the perpetual-motion forensic threads here, e.g. the Fewed.*

I find the articles to be as seminal and affecting a glimpse of the men as, say, the bonus tracks on the re-issues. I wish Ms. Spencer had used them as the core of a full-fledged Band biography, since she seems to have all the right credentials! Of course, there's quite a leap from interview(s) to book, and only she knows whether she has the detachment a biographer needs. Then again, had she intended to write a book, she probably wouldn't have gotten the serial Total Access she did.

Anyway, reading these for the first time gave me a thrill like a Biblical scholar reading the latest translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls. (Or should that be "translation of the latest Dead Sea Scrolls"?) I gave myself a Dope Slap for not previously discovering the one which was already on the site.

Richard's interview is the most poignant, although it revives the pain and frustration felt by even those of us who had no direct association with him. (Except a quick handshake once.) It's unique in presenting a glimpse of a man who seems very much alive and engaged in his art. It's a stark contrast to the other books and articles, which contributed to a view of the post-TLW Richard as merely a tragic and moribund relic.

That said, belatedly running into indications that there was very much somebody at home revived old frustration and a little anger. It's truly freaky at his late date to read Richard quotes that sound much more like Robbie, i.e. a person who's dissatisfied with sitting on laurels and running in circles, but who's up for anything worthwhile. And, amazingly, he talks like a man who's anything BUT used up creatively-- he seems to be looking for a channel to stretch and develop his songwriting ideas! Was all this just a front for the interviewer, or a passing good mood?

The question is rhetorical now, so this may be the only place left to ask it. Belated thanks to Ms. Spencer for sharing this slice of Richard's warm and sardonic presence (reminiscent of John Lennon without the acerbic edge),and bringing it to life so well.

* "Spat", tiff," et al are too nice-nelly. I'd propose "schism", which I think is fairly accurate.

(schism (skzm, sz-)n.
1. A separation or division into factions.
2. a. A formal breach of union within a Christian church; b. The offense of attempting to produce such a breach.
Disunion; discord.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition)

After all, there are still arguments going about the Great Divorce and the Reformation. (Unfortunately, "schism" has NO beat and you can't dance to it.)

Posted on Sat Sep 8 19:22:30 CEST 2001 from 1cust203.tnt2.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.108.203)

HI

I have to disagree strongly with Calvin's comments about Levon's post Band material not having the vision or whatever of the other original members.....Having heard him many times with the RCO etc, and enjoying various tunes off his solo records, all I can say is "what the heck?" Likewise I like some of Robbie's stuff but so what........Also what's the deal with "Java?" Why stay if to you it's just dinosaurs discussed here that you're not interested in? There must be some new guys you like that have a GB.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 19:15:43 CEST 2001 from spider-we051.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.41)

calvin

Wilco was dropped by their label? After those 2 fantastic albums they did with Billy Bragg? Amazing, simply amazing.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 18:53:58 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp261882.sympatico.ca (64.230.33.59)

brown eyed girl

BASHFUL BILL: The songs I was referring to are "Wish We Were Back In Missouri" and "Six Gun Shooting".....Charlie Daniels plays as well......I recall that you also like the Indigo Girls.....Do you have "Tangled Up In Blue" by Dylan featuring Ani Difranco?......I saw her open up for Dylan once.....I think even Dylan was impressed that night.......Also I found "Mr.Levon" by Shawn Colvin.......hmmmmmmmmmmm

G-MAN: Thanks for sending the photos from the Barn Burners show of Donna, Donna from Philly and myself.........I think......... :-D I wish I was going to see the Gurus tonight with all of you but.........I'm not a road warrior.........yet........

Posted on Sat Sep 8 18:39:55 CEST 2001 from spider-wa072.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.52)

calvin

Craig I mean no disrespect towards Levon but he is at heart just a guy playing bar blues, I don't think he ever had the musical vision of the other 4. Robbie and Rich have both released vital interesting music on a regular basis, Garth is Garth his first album is a delight. And while I enjoy the 3-4 Levon Album's I have, and the couple of live shows I've seen, the direction he has took since 1976 is to record Bluesy albums whose contents arent significantly better than what you can here from a large city's better player any given night. As for Robbie still being significant, it wasn't that long ago he was a grammy nominated artist, he is in large demand as a producer of soundtracks, working on major pictures. If he had of followed up his first album with like minded music instead of moving into somewhat native american music then yes, I think he would be playing venues that hold say 2,500 people. Levon simply can't. I don't want this to sound if I dislike Levon, I don't, as I said I own most of his solo albums, but they simply aren't much more than rehashes. Speaking of covers, a bar in Akron, Ohio has something every year called Bobfest, where all the bands cover Dylan songs, and many show up.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 18:20:22 CEST 2001 from proxy1.cambr1.on.home.com (24.2.9.42)

Craig

Calvin- quite a statement there. Levon's playing bars because he's still PLAYING for live audiences. If RR chose to do the same, where do you think he's be playing? Madison Square Garden ? With his stable of big "hits" I'm quite certain he'd be playing bar type venues too. But unlike the situation associated with Levon's tunes, RR's audiences would find out quickly that alcohol truly is a depressant and the music fits perfectly.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 18:10:26 CEST 2001 from sqd40.nirai.ne.jp (202.239.129.43)

Fred

I remember seeing a Who tribute/cover band that was famous for touring the wonderful province of Ontario back in 1984 (however I can't remember the group's name) and back in the mid to late 70s there was a Beatles tribute/cover band that was slightly popular in Italy....they were even on national TV a few times...their gimmick pre-Sgt Pepper suits, mop-tops, and they sung not in Italian, but in the dialect of their hometown---Naples. Freaky.

Sea To The North is a great CD to listen to during a typhoon...The Breakers stops the rain...I've played this CD several times while it's been raining and when Track 3 starts, the rain stops.... until the beginning of track 4. It happened today during Typhoon 16. Simple coincidence or scientific fact....you be the judge(s)....{the DOTS are a nod to Hank......}

Posted on Sat Sep 8 18:04:17 CEST 2001 from sid11.revealed.net (208.23.178.154)

Mike

Interesting thread about cover bands. We have a very popular local band in my area called Einstein's Sister who write and play their own material. But, on every New Years Eve they do a tribute to a certian band. Last year was U2 and 2 years ago was The Police. I don't rememebr the previous years however. I happen to know one of the members and maybe I'll ask him to do a tribute to The Band. After all, they are fans and can play many instruments and play them quite good. They really put a LOT of effort into those tribute shows to make it sound authentic. If they were to do such a tribute to The Band, it'd be nice to hear Rockin' Chair...Still one of my fave Band songs. Peace.

Mike

Posted on Sat Sep 8 17:09:10 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.84.140.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.84.140)

Pat Brennan

Funny that Wilco gets a mention as a band still producing music, since Warner Brothers in its infinite wisdom just dropped them. They are now negotiating a number of strategies to release their new album (which is finished) and preparing for a fall tour.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 16:25:18 CEST 2001 from spider-wk031.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.161)

butch

TONIGHT ,,,,,, Jim Weider, Randy Ciarlante & The GURUS will be rockin in Pawling,,,,@ The Towne Crier

one of the rockinest bands,,, they play each show like its their last,, nothing held back, they give ya everything,,,

whether it's original tunes, re-arranged Band tunes, or real cool covers, THE GURUS are musicians of the finest order,,

\

I cant wait for 9 pm tonight,,, LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL !!!

Posted on Sat Sep 8 16:10:10 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp261882.sympatico.ca (64.230.33.59)

brown eyed girl

Polkas......reminds me of Oktoberfest in Kitchener, Ontario.........

I just burned a CD from my realjukebox.....I go all over the place with music.......

Holly McNarland
Grand Master Flash And The Furious Five
Van Morrison and Van with Lonnie Donegan
Louuuuuu and Lou with Laurie Anderson
Southside Johnny
Jim Carrol Band
Travis Tritt
Jon Secada
John Prine
Texas
Shawn Colvin
Emmylou with Johnny Cash and Levon
Ornette Coleman

Posted on Sat Sep 8 15:58:07 CEST 2001 from spider-wj084.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.59)

JTULL FAN

Richard: your post has me crying I'm laughing so hard. Would you believe I found and forwarded the identical newstory you posted to my aunt and uncle last week? I'm 1/2 polish, and my dad is a polka freak (just try bringing a girl home with it blaring out of your parents house!)Anyway, Frankie Yankovich is none other than Wierd Al Yankovich's father! Incidentally, I know you are joking, but on Garth's thank-you's on the Jubilation linear notes, you will find he lists 'Jimmy Sturr', who is none other than the grammy award winning polka guy. Anyway see what you started? Let's hope the polka thread dies right here or a lot of people will be quitting the GB :)

Posted on Sat Sep 8 15:17:45 CEST 2001 from ottawa-ppp3517225.sympatico.ca (206.172.191.96)

Richard

JTULL: I think you'll find most of yer "serious musicians" nowadays are playing polka music. Something Ian Anderson should consider. This just in from Ohio...

"Man sentenced to polka music. - Cambridge, Ohio. - A man was sentenced to listen to four hours of polka king Frankie Yankovic's greatest hits for driving through the city with his windows down and his truck's stereo blaring. Municipal Judge John Nicholson found Alan Law guilty of disorderly conduct and ordered him to pay a $100 fine or listen to polka tunes. Nicholson picked Yankovic's music because he thought the 19-year-old Law would not be a fan of the Cleveland polka legend, who died in 1998. Law listened to the full four hours of Yankovic's hits, which include "Blue Skirt Waltz," "Who Stole the Kishka" and "Too Fat Polka", in a police station interview room Thursday. "

...I thought Butch started the dots...

Posted on Sat Sep 8 15:09:09 CEST 2001 from spider-tr051.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.196)

Brien Sz

In the same era of Crystal Ship..,I remember a band called Sticky Fingers. You can figure out the group it pays tribute too. Also, Backstreets and a cover/tribute band Yasger's Farm - believe it or not they are still around 25 years since they came to be - just heard an advertisement for them. Now as far as cover bands go, the tri-state area's biggest band and again, another close to 20 year veteran, The Nerds. They have quite a following. Pack every bar they play. I have seen them several times, they are goofy but entertaining and well schooled in their craft and act. One problem...,there was a period of about seven years that i had not seen them. When i went again, it was the same act. I'd like to say exact but my memory doesn't serve me that well.., but as a tribute to Monty Python, don your best British accent.., But it was fu***** close.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 14:49:48 CEST 2001 from spider-wk031.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.161)

Calvin

It is a short list Tull, those musicians that came out in the 80s but still get play, but not as short as you'd guess. Just off the top of my head The Chili Peppers, Madonna, Janet Jackson, Depeche Mode, I'd be willing to bet I could hit double digits without much of a problem. As for those who made the comment "Maybe it'll swing around some day" of course it will, it always does. Anyone remember the mid 70s. Also, we tend to remember the past in a little better way than it really was, wasn't 1967 best selling single Sugar, Sugar by the Archies. Pap has always sold well. There are plenty of artists that I am there for the latest releases who have been recording for some time, Wilco is currently working on their 6th album, Billy Bragg around the same, Rickie Lee Jones has been putting out solid work since 1979, Lyle Lovett since the mid 80s. Solid music is there, and it is far too early in this era to despair and cry out about the death of the music industry.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 14:22:10 CEST 2001 from spider-wj084.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.59)

JTULL FAN

BK: You hit it on the head. Today's 'serious' musicians have to settle for a hobby or a break-even career for the most part and depend on a day job to eat while Vanilla Ice gets a mansion! Ultimately, they have to give it up before wracking up the 5 or so albums it takes to build a fan base and a sustaining career. Also, since they have no hope of getting radio play (not even a hit, just some old fashioned AOR airplay)they don't have a chance of some kid saying 'hey, I like that song, I think I will buy the album'. I discovered so many artists that way, and once I got hooked on an album, I would discover 10 years of so of back catalog albums to sustain my interest for over a year or more while discovering each one of them in my room at my parents house with the headphones cranked up and a beer sneaked from the fridge. A CHALLENGE TO MY FELLOW GB FRIENDS: With the exception of U2 and Madonna (ugh), try to name a band or artist who began in 1980 or later who is still performing, and has 5 or more albums to their credit and still gets RADIO play for new material. This must be a MAJOR label artist. Even if you guys do, my bet is the list will be short enough to prove my point. I would also think most of the answers would be country artists at that.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 14:20:28 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp173.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.173)

Lil Again

I guess I just realized that an "AMEN" to Pat wasn't enough. As someone who knew Richard Manuel, it really upsets me to read demeaning things about him. Yes, Richard had some substance problems, but that did _not_ lessen him as a human being. He was very intelligent, had a teriffic sense of humor, and was a very warm and caring man. I liked his laugh and if I listen hard enough, sometimes I can almost still hear it.
Musically, I really believe that Richard had the potential to reach for the stars..and eventually get there. He was a truly gifted musician, with one of the sweetest voice I've ever heard. Would he have gone farther musically if he head've lived? Yes, I truly believe he would have. Would he have turned his back on Rick, Levon, and Garth? No... and I truly believe that too.

I once said that I thought of Richard as an "unfinished symphony"..and I still feel that way about him. I miss him.

Thanks for listening.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 13:59:09 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp173.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.173)

Diamond Lil

Bayou Sam: I _do_ remember Kivetsky! Takes me back about..what? 20 years or so I guess. Long Island used to have a alot of really good cover bands. I remember seeing a good 'Doors' one a few times...I think their name was "Crystal Ship" (?)

DaveZ: Loved your poem..thanks for sharing. Geez...you paint _and_ write? Do you cook too? :-)

John D John D..where for art thou John D? I miss you...

Pat Brennan: AMEN.

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan (if you still want one from me after one from Bayou Sam that is :-)

Posted on Sat Sep 8 11:33:13 CEST 2001 from nas-202-113.rochester.navipath.net (64.20.202.113)

Liz

Gods Blessings to Dick Pepper and his family, To all of us: it , looks good, its all good, Play On keep listening.....It sounds really good.......

Posted on Sat Sep 8 09:48:20 CEST 2001 from spider-wj074.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.54)

Tommy

Calvin;

I saw that 'Abbey Road' Beatles' tribute back in July here in Brooklyn.It was a really good show, and I did my little review of it here in the GB.Fun times!

Posted on Sat Sep 8 07:16:48 CEST 2001 from hyp01-207-97-142-36.i-2000.net (207.97.142.36)

BK

JTULL, I agree with you that there is still a lot of talent among songwriters these days, but I think there actually IS a market for them, it just not in the top 20 anymore. The music industry has turned it into a much more product oriented business than it used to be, I mean it’s always been that way, but the main product was music, now it’s merchandise (soda, sneakers, etc…). You can still find great new music, but the trick is just to give up on most commercial radio, and find alternative ways of discovering it. (I’m sure you all already know this, I’m just rambling here.) One of the major unfortunate things, though, is that since it’s not going to be in the top 20, it’s going to be harder for songwriters/bands to sustain the kind of career that a Dylan or Springsteen, (or Tull) have. Maybe someday it’ll come back around, the next generation might want to listen to music with some substance…who knows?

As for Richard, I think he might have edged them towards working on projects like Jericho a little sooner since he was'nt happy about becoming an “oldies” act. Of course that would have depended on him getting himself together enough to take on a more leading role in the band. Sorry about the ramble, it’s late…I’m tired…. Hope y’all have a great weekend.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 06:59:24 CEST 2001 from spider-we042.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.37)

Bayou Sam

I just checked, and the John Simon interview is there. It's under library - then articles. Scroll all the way down to "misc. - the interview is called "The tryth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

Posted on Sat Sep 8 06:52:36 CEST 2001 from spider-we042.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.37)

Bayou Sam

That was an interesting RR quote that Bones posted.

Jan once put a terrific interview on this site with John Simon where he kind of approached the songwriting "issue". He said something to the effect that it's kind of a songwriters choice in certain instances to determine how much credit is due to other contributers to the song. I got the feeling from what he said that maybe there were songs that RR might have thropwn more credit to the others - and maybe not. I think this interview was posted at least a year ago - so I'd have to go read it again if it's floating around the site somewhere. It is worth searching for for those of you who haven't seen it.

I once saw a Long Island band called Streetfighter (Stones cover band) do Gimme Shelter, and a guy that was working the mixing boared came up and sang the very high female vocal that was sung by Merry Clayton on the album. I was blown away..... I used to religiously go to see another L.I. band called Kivetsky that did a fantastis show of ^0's music. Any Long Islanders (Lil?) ever remember that band?

Posted on Sat Sep 8 06:52:20 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.66.91.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.66.91)

Pat Brennan

Java, in this guestbook you have proven that you have absolutely no idea who Richard Manuel was, but you have managed successfully to demonstrate exactly who you are. Believe me, he was an infinitely more accomplished human being than you will ever be.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 06:31:02 CEST 2001 from dialup-340.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.84)

.........

Played a gig last night in a town called Kinsale......me and a mandolin player......we were jiggin'it reelin' it, a John Prine song here....Tim O'Brien there........covers, don't ya know?......and a really drunken gent stumbled up and said "Hey!....Play something we ALL know!!!!!".....so I sez "Here's a good 'ole Rebel song!!!" ......and proceeded to play "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down".....got a big cheer and laugh from the crowd from the crowd.....but the drunk guy turned his back on us and walked away.....he probably thought I was gonna play "The Fields of Athenry" or "Revenge for Skibbereen".......

Posted on Sat Sep 8 06:01:02 CEST 2001 from spider-tl032.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.187)

Calvin

It does seem strange that the difficult one, Robbie, seems determined never to badmouth any member of The Band in print, while happy-go-lucky Levon seems to made it his life's work to attack Robbie. I hate to play amatuer psychologist but Robbie did through really no fault of his own take over Levon's band and is recognized now 23 years after the last Band proper album as a substanial musician while Levon is basically playing bars. On the subject of Tribute Bands, did anyone see the Abby Road Tour, where Todd Rundgren, Ann Wilson of Heart, John Entwhistle, Alan Parsons, and David Pack of Ambrosia and the Alan Parsons Project basically turned themselves into a BEatles cover band?

Posted on Sat Sep 8 05:31:03 CEST 2001 from unionppp4.union.edu (149.106.172.5)

Danny Lopez

Haven't checked in on the site in a long time but here's a quote I'm sure all can appreciate, it's from a Rolling Stone review of Dylan's new album:

"Dylan's got a working band to push him these days - Love and Theft shows off the touring musicians with whom Dylan has played nearly 500 gigs since Time Out of Mind. Like his voice, his band is an instrument that Dylan is obviously having a blast learning to play. With guest keyboards from Texas legend Augie Meyers, as well as the twin guitars of Charlie Sexton and Larry Campbell, Love and Theft celebrates the most fruitful relationship Dylan's had with a band since the Band."

The source is ROB SHEFFIELD (RS 878 - September 27 , 2001)

Posted on Sat Sep 8 02:19:46 CEST 2001 from spider-wj064.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.49)

Tommy

Pat Brennan;Nice summary of cover bands.I am currently in the process of starting up a Tom Petty cover band (just for fun) and it's sounding pretty good so far.

I once saw a Zeppelin TRIBUTE band, and I was a bit drunk.It was very creepy.These guys looked and sounded JUST LIKE THEM!!!It was quite strange.I felt like I was watching The Song REmains The Same!

Posted on Sat Sep 8 02:05:36 CEST 2001 from spider-wj073.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.53)

JTULL FAN

Welcome back Tommy and the rest of you guys we haven't seen in a while or seen before. I too was a lurker here for almost 3 years before posting(or at least checked out the 'what's new' board.) been thinking about this cover band/Beatlemania issue. Unfortunately the words I hoped to use driving home will probably not pour out as well as they sounded in my head. Anyway, I think MTV was the death of music. After WWII, both sides of the Atlantic were more worldly, tired of economic and physical suffering, and suddenly connected (radio) in ways they never dreamed. People were ready to just enjoy themselves and music provided the best relief. All the creative strands that combined to creat jazz, blues, and finally rock, burst forth and as each new artist came on the scene they inspired others and were in turn influenced themselves. Radio and all media were hungry for product. You needed any rock at all before you can have classic rock a generation later. Everything was new to be created. Then we get saturation: tv, cable TV, rock video, classic rock, oldies rock, this rock, that rock. shock rock etc. The new generations, rather than inspired by the Kerouac's and others, found it more comfortable it commemorate the past generations music than create their own; they would rather sit on a couch and watch a facelss video than go to a club and discover the real live thing. When was the last time a band burst out of the club scene and lasted 5 or more years; long enough to do a greatest hits album? Now, everybody is 'fashioned' prepackeged by the music industry: Back Street Boys, Britney Spears, Aaleyah (who was actually compared to Buddy Holly because she died in a plane crash!)I firmly believe there is as much talent in today's teens and 20-somethings as there was in the 50's and 60's; there is just no market for them! So we will continue to get one-hit wonders and worse crap.It is just no longer possible today for a band like the Beatles, Stones, CCR, The Hawks, Dylan, (or JTull ((FLUTE??!?)) ) to make it today. I apologize as this post is not as eloquent as I wished; perhaps one of you guys can carry it further.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 02:05:20 CEST 2001 from stjhts18c115.nbnet.nb.ca (142.166.254.120)

Java

Someone asked if Richard would have continued on with The Band (had he lived) or struck out on his own. He was quoted several times as saying, "It's The Band or nothing." So theres your answer. He was so alcohol and drug dependant he could hardly function as a human being, let alone a musician. What kind of solo career could he have carved out? Forget the what if's and get with the real world. Stop clinging to the past. It aint healthy. Waddle to the nearest tarpit and immerse yourself for eternity!

Posted on Sat Sep 8 01:48:53 CEST 2001 from a010-0008.blgs.splitrock.net (209.254.61.8)

Jack Straw

Pat Brennan

In 25X5, (AKA "The Continuing Adventures of the Rolling Stones") Mick Jagger relates very well how the Stones made that step from bar/club/cover band to a recording band

Posted on Sat Sep 8 01:35:32 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-118-27.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.118.27)

Still no wife in Tennessee

Peter: I saw Willie Nelson a few years back and it was excellent. He played for a real long time, long enough for some of the lightweights to start to leave. It was pretty funny, because after a few hours, he said, "Okay, I'm going to do one more song." Then he played about five more. Then he said, "Okay, just two more then we're done." Then he played about four more songs, then came back for an encore. And after the show, he stayed onstage for about half an hour, signing autographs and talking to people, while his band just kind of jammed to themselves in the background. A girl in front of me handed Willie her cell phone to talk to her friend! He was like, "Hi, this is Willie Nelson. Who am I talking to?" Pretty funny. Plus, he seems to be unfortunately one of the few entertainers who just does a sincere, musical show, with no phoney showbiz/entertainment BS. He just plays, and is very relaxed, kind of like how I imagine more shows were in the '50s, '60s and early '70s, before arena rock. So I'd strongly recommend that you go, if you've never seen him before. Besides, if you can listen to Dylan, Nelson's no problem!

Hank: You said something about Richard's interview, and it kind of seemed like he was the other member of The Band that wasn't all that interested in rehashing the past. It seemed like he wanted to go and do new stuff, either with The Band or not. It's a shame it never happened. So here's my hypothetical question: If Richard had lived, does anyone think he'd have left The Band eventually, too, if they kept on doing the oldies routine?

Steve Knowlton: I've thought the same thing about our little term, "The Feud." It's more like, "the ambush" or "the assault" or something. And nobody ever acknowledges it as The Feud, this proper noun thing, except us. We're probably the only people that call their disagreement "The Feud." Actually, wouldn't "the disagreement" or "the tiff," "the spat," or maybe "the difference of opinion" be nicer, and lighten the whole mood in this here GB? (But maybe our GB Band cover band can be called "The Feud." I get to play Robbie.)

Bones: I was going to post that Robbie quote, too. Kind of seems like one person writing material and then everyone else adding a few ideas to it. Isn't that what the musicians in a band are supposed to do? And that interview is from way before The Difference Of Opinion ever became real public knowledge. But I wonder if Stu Cook and Doug Clifford ever get pissed, because Robbie always uses CCR, every single time, as an example of one person carrying the whole show. Can't he find one other group to contrast The Band to?

Any/Everybody: I finally saw "Dancer In The Dark" last night, that a lot of people have said was the best movie of last year. It was really good, really strange, and I won't even go into the depressing part. Anyone else seen it?

Chris: If you want to know how a drummer can write songs for a group to play, ask Levon!!!

I'm off to see the New School of Gov't Mule, with the hardest working white man in show business, Warren Haynes. Last time they were here they played "I Shall Be Released."

(I just wrote a novel and boy are my hands tired.)

Posted on Sat Sep 8 00:26:33 CEST 2001 from (137.187.146.245)

Jonathan Katz

Cover Bands

Many many years ago my wife and I were in Las Vegas and took in a show. Wanting to do something that was typical of Vegas [when in Rome do as ....(dots for Hank)], we went to a show which included impersonators of various dead icons, including Elvis! I remember being struck by the fact that the individuals “playing” the deceased singers all had talent, and how strange it was that they were performing as dead former stars. But on reflection, I think that the weirdness of the donning of wigs and costumes and pretending to actually be the star is simply a societal by product. As it currently stands, our society does not place much value in the individual unique artist/performer. What the society wants is the established commercial product, dead or alive. There is more commerce in a dead Elvis than a live nobody, regardless of his/her talent. That’s more than just muddying the line between theatre and concert.

Posted on Sat Sep 8 00:16:42 CEST 2001 from (216.81.0.27)

Bruce Harper

I just obtained the Underworld CD. I really enjoy the music and I always listen to it while at work; I listen to the Ensemble CD too. Keep up the good music and I wish dudes well. Supporting the Leonard Peltier cause. PEACE

Posted on Sat Sep 8 00:14:13 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-155.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.155)

Peter Viney

Covers bands: the joy of covers bands is bringing the different stuff together into a whole (as Vonda Shepherd does on the Ali McBeal albums, or Eva Cassidy does on her series of albums). Saw a great covers band at a party last week, combining interesting choices- Ballad of John & Yoko, Too Busy thinking about My Baby, Where does our love Go? Perfect, You Can’t Do That. If I go back 30 years, the fear of playing Scotland was that the support band invariably played the current Top 10, in reverse order from 10 to 1, and did it well. I really like a good covers band, I like ‘tribute’ shows,. But what is weird is putting on wigs and costumes and pretending to actually be Fleetwood Mac or The Beatles. That’s not a covers band but a kind of theatrical performance. It muddys the line between theatre and concert too much.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 22:13:19 CEST 2001 from spider-to044.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.64)

Dave Z

Working on a painting of a church and sweat lodge side-by-side today... inspired by an image in Redford's Peltier movie... also inspired by what's playing in background... I'm listening to Garth's latest... with headphones for first time... Whoooa!!!... but also got the player set for random... and listening to John Trudell's latest too... a new spoken word CD... called DNA... Descendant Now Ancestor... neat stuff... and his voice is soooo soothing...

Gotta get back now... but I'll share sumpin' I wrote... not as dark as the Kooba Monkey but... here goes...

Taking your time to go nowhere
Waiting to do nothing, and
Rushing to slow down.

The pace we set
The traps of money
The games of gain.

What do we really leave for our young?
Where do the roads lead, and
What do they allow us to see?

Sacred trees in unholy places?
Power plants where the rivers must run?
Churches one right next to the other
Some will marry, others they shun?

A mix of the pristine past
Not so clear?
And the present pace
A race to run?
What’s the cost, and
Why so much?
Is the past prettier than tomorrow,
And what about today? How pretty is today?

At high tech speed, there’s only money, pride,
And a job to be done.
While at slow going, there’s only me or you knowing
What really, really must be done.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 22:18:41 CEST 2001 from spider-wj063.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.48)

bob wigo

Sorry. My last post was meant as a respectful response to Bones' latest post.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 22:13:30 CEST 2001 from spider-wj063.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.48)

bob wigo

But that still doesn't imply authorship on the part of the other Band members. Much like a writer submits his drafts to an editor expecting additions, deletions, corrections and enhancements the songwriter is utilizing his musical support to build upon his creation's foundation. My understanding is that this was the order of the day and more than typical of the understanding among songwriters and their bandmates.

That having been said, wouldn't it have been so much truer to the spirit of The Band for Robbie to have realized the difference between The Band and other bands of their time ? He even speaks to that point in his comments regarding CCR.

I can't help but ask the question...Would he do it differently if he knew then what he knows now?

Posted on Fri Sep 7 22:13:13 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.117.211.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.117.211)

Pat Brennan

Whoops, I wanted to add a few things.

In one famous case, U2 never played covers early on because they weren't good enough. Insted they spent months banging away until something developed. Seems like they had a pretty good plan. I think that approach is much more prevalent today because of the democratization of recording tools. Get an imac, a microphone, and Digi 0001 and you have a state of the art recording studio. You can meet after school and do what you want, sliceing and diceing, etc, until you create a recording you kind of like. Post it on your website and invite A&R people to check you out. I've recently read of at least two bands who had never played a gig that got signed this way. One bad thing: since it still takes a bunch of mic's and a good room to record drums, young musicians a relying more and more on drum samples for their recording. Also, drum loops (and looping in general) are the basis of arguably the most popular form of music today. The Chicago Tribune recently had an article about the dearth of drummers. Let's hope that trend reverses.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 21:59:55 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.117.211.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.117.211)

Pat Brennan

It seems to me that KLJ suffered some sort of breakdown. Some have inferred that he was a bit threatening privately, and of course that is inexcusable. But his final posts are more pathetic than anything else.

On the subject of tribute/cover bands (and what a subject this is!): I would guess that most but not all bands start as cover bands, performing songs they like by their fave artists. The majority of these do so until reality bops them over the head--i.e., the need to make a living, family committments, etc.--or they simply get tired of slogging it out in the bars where you almost have to play if you want to make any money. But a few of these groups will have members who spend some of their time writing songs. They'll bring the songs to the band and perhaps play them live or record them. Usually playing them live can be dicey; if you're known as a cover band, well, you better play covers. The Beatles were a great cover band. The Hawks were a great cover band. Did either band play original tunes when they were in their cover period? I doubt it. Interesting, though. Since Ronnie Hawkins recorded some hits, he could add originals to his set, like the ones Robbie wrote for him.

So how does a cover band become a recording band? It's nigh on impossible. If you're out playing a lot doing covers, your band is basically apeing current or classic styles. Developing a style of your own would involve woodshedding on that personal style, which would demand a certain dedication--both time and emotion--to something that most likely will not pay off. It would also demand a certain unanimity among the group's member, another dicey proposition. Now some of this is solved if you have a great singer/songwriter, then you all are basically following his/her muse. However, it's quite common for a record company to view the singer/songwriter as just that, and not as a cog in the group's wheel.

Now you caould straddle the fence by doing covers in your own way so as to bring a more personal aspect to the show. Still dangerous from a business standpoint.

So, obviously in a very real sense, it's tons easier to be in a tribute/cover band because you can calculate the audience's needs and deliver the goods. Forging your own path is difficult, unnerving, and proceeds with almost no hope of success.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 21:51:06 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

"I never wrote a song and came in and gave everybody everything to do on the song. Never. I never wanted to. But you just give them the basic thing to go on and then hope they take that further- to a more interesting place."

Robbie Robertson

Posted on Fri Sep 7 21:31:34 CEST 2001 from adsl-64-164-18-70.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (64.164.18.70)

Gtago Dami

I'm out in San Francisco and saw a snippit about the new Dylan on FUV ( by far my favourite station, as well as KZE, Sharon,CT 98.1 coming in a close 2nd.) I have contacted a station in Woodstock who claims only 4 songs are available to stations. True or false ? Can't wait to be back in NY Mon. Thanks guys for your help, thanks Jan for the sight, and thanks Bob for all the input....you're royalty. Love you

Posted on Fri Sep 7 21:11:36 CEST 2001 from adsl-64-164-18-70.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (64.164.18.70)

Gtago Dami

I'm out in San Francisco and saw a snippit about the new Dylan on FUV ( by far my favourite station, as well as KZE, Sharon,CT 98.1 coming in a close 2nd.) I have contacted a station in Woodstock who claims only 4 songs are available to stations. True or false ? Can't wait to be back in NY Mon. Thanks guys for your help, thanks Jan for the sight, and thanks Bob for all the input....you're royalty. Love you

Posted on Fri Sep 7 21:05:13 CEST 2001 from 1cust157.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.157)

Margolins reply to my last post!(Rollie)

I actually wrote about this in my upcoming Blues Revue article. To my best recollection, it was rehearsals the night before the show and jamming after the show. The Band was going over the songs with the artists on the show. We went over a couple with Muddy, Pinetop, The Band, and Paul Butterfield. They considered doing the Sonny Boy song "Nine Below Zero" but chose Caledonia instead. I think that some of the more blues-oriented Rock stars were hanging around watching us. If there was any jamming going on that night, I didn't see it, and Muddy probably just went to his room like he always did. Pinetop's always up for jamming, but probably was in his room too. After the show, folks were jamming all night 'til dawn, when Bob Dylan engineered a coup, took over the instruments, and sang blues songs with me, Clapton, Levon, Ron Wood on bass, Dr. John, and Butterfield. Thanks, Bob

Posted on Fri Sep 7 20:02:40 CEST 2001 from spider-wi034.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.34)

Dave ~ (the drummer)

OOPS...upcoming

Posted on Fri Sep 7 19:53:10 CEST 2001 from spider-to062.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.72)

Dave ~ (the drummer)

Thank you Bob Margolin for posting your thoughts in the GB. It is a bloody shame you had to arrive at such an unfortuitous time. The venemous posts by KLJ are the acts of a sick mind crying out for help. Hopefully he and the other demented posters have come to their senses by now.....but I doubt it. And to think,,,KLJ posted his music on the very site he attempted to defile. As a musician, I am ashamed of you KLJ and you'll get no sympathy from me.

To Donna and any other respectable member of this oasis for the Band and their kindred spirits: STAY !!! Your departure only means victory for the degenerates who drove you away. Instead of leaving this venue, dig in and post more often. That is the solution.

Last month,on the 10th of August, I had the pleasure of sitting down for a chat with Bob Margolin and Levon. Bob is polite,humble and posesses an infinite knowledge of the blues and all other forms of music. He joined Muddy's band at the age of 23. He mentioned how much fun he was having on the Rolling Fork Review being backed by Levon and how masterful Levon's playing is. I hope I'm not speaking out of school when I say that there was discussion of an upcomoming recording date at Levon's home studio sometime this fall. It involves Levon and Bob. Hopefully it will come to fruition.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 19:27:36 CEST 2001 from (164.156.231.55)

Little Brøther

Steve wrote: "Doesn't 'feud' strike you as the wrong word? It implies two parties, each of which is angry with the other."

It's an interesting semantic point. What IS the right word for a conflict where one party goes away mad, and the other apparently just goes away?

Be that as it may, it's clear that the proper word for the Band from here on out is "fewed".

Posted on Fri Sep 7 19:26:07 CEST 2001 from umddsk2.lib.uwaterloo.ca (129.97.138.88)

House_Elf

Good Day all I am so glad Mike posted his message. I agree with everything he has said. This is my first posting, although I have been coming here everyday for more than a year. I can't express how thankful I am to Jan for keeping this site going and the enormous effort he puts into this site. I have learned a great many things hanging out here. I don't know why someone would waste their time annoying others, but i wish I had that kind of free time. Anyway, thanks Jan. Cheers, House_Elf

Posted on Fri Sep 7 19:11:47 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti033.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.163)

Tommy

In regards to Peter Viney's last post concerning cover/tribute bands;

There's a new movie opening up today with Mark Wahlberg called 'RockStar'.It's about a tribute band singer who gets hired to be the lead singer in the band he tributes,and it's based on the true story of Judas Priest singer "Ripper" Owens ,who took over for Rob Halford when he left Judas Priest.Anyway, I was watching a special about it last night on VH1, and in the movie there are real musicians (from 3rd Eye Blind,Verve Pipe and some other bands) and they asked their opinions about playing in cover/tribute bands.Most of these guys liked the idea, saying that if you love the music that you're covering so much, then it's cool,,,,but the guy from 3rd Eye Blind said that it's "boring and useless" to be in a cover band.Hmmm...maybe he should go to your neck of the woods, huh Peter?Seems the tribute/cover bands are doing good over there.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 19:06:05 CEST 2001 from 1cust113.tnt1.grand-rapids.mi.da.uu.net (63.38.89.113)

Paul Nyman

Jan would it be asking to much how to obtain/order the new CD by Jonas Fjeld Tidevann? Cheers everyone!

Posted on Fri Sep 7 18:57:39 CEST 2001 from sid7.revealed.net (208.23.178.150)

Mike

Wow, there's a LOT of stuff going down in this guestbook. I'm not a regular poster but I do come here everyday to read. This site is os the only of it's kind. I was ecstatic to discover a site (this site!) about one of my favorite groups, The Band almost 3 years ago! Ya won't find anything else even remotely as informative and up to date about The Band as this site! And through some really cool people here, I've expanded my Band collection beyond the official stuff. A big thank you to Laura P., Kevin T., Don Pugatch, Gene (forgot last name) and to Mr. Viney's suggestions on bootlegs. It's always fun to visit daily and read the posts. I am as a big a fan of The Band as anyone else. I just don't always have the urge to post. I'd hate to see this site disappear. I'd advise anyone thinking of leaving NOT TO LEAVE! Take some time off and let things cool down. That "java" person...What does he/she know. Sounds like a person who enjoys flaming and upsetting people. Let's remember why we all come here: The Band. No matter if you love all of them (like me) or if Rick, Richard (me) Robbie, Levon or Garth is your favorite member...We all still come here for the same reason. Let's not waste it. I admire Jan's efforts to maintain this site. I know I am looking forward to TLW cd, DVD and the up and coming box set. I Hope it has a LOT of rarities not on those re-issues. Hopefully more things have been discovered! I guess I felt compelled to post today. It's not been all positive in here as of late. But, that's ok. I still enjoy coming here. So, forget about "java" and his/her blues. Stick to The Band. After all, that's why we come here. Peace.

Mike

Posted on Fri Sep 7 17:56:35 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Got some good advice re. GB bloopers and blunders! Call in sick on sat. and head for Pawling, N.Y., and see the Gurus at the Town Crier.....LIVE with the Road Warriors!!!!!!

Posted on Fri Sep 7 17:14:22 CEST 2001 from spider-wa012.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.22)

Bayou Sam

You know what bugs me more than the stupid, hurtful posts by the horses-asses can seem to pass through here from time-to time? - It's when some of the regulars who's posts I always enjoy get to the point where they either stoop to the level of these fools, or worse - talk about leaving entirely. God knows I'm one to talk. I've had my bru-ha-ha's in here (benteen, Bill W. etc), but these people always lose. I guess they get their rocks off by being "king mixers", likle Paul's grandfather.

So please - all of you regular cats who think about splitting - hang out.

I noticed that even Jan lost his temper recently. What a shame. I think it's cool that folks periodically remind Jan how much they appreciate his efforts with regard to this fabulous website. My turn - thanks Jan....OK - hug Jan :-)

Posted on Fri Sep 7 17:00:12 CEST 2001 from (209.166.233.21)

Jon Lyness

Bob Margolin, if you're still out there:

It's been a real pleasure to see you check in with us & to read your reminiscing about Rick and the Band. Despite some of the nonsense you will see from time to time in this guestbook, the thing that keeps us coming back is our love for this great music. Listening to this music has changed my life...I can only imagine how playing with Muddy, Rick, Levon etc. and getting to know them has changed yours. Last night I was inspired to pull out the Muddy Waters Woodstock Album & play it through...still sounds terrific. Thanks too for the nice words about Levon, great to hear! All the best. Jon :)

Posted on Fri Sep 7 16:56:14 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

By The Way: The above web page is to a new Levon and the Barnburners site. I found it through Google. I don't know if it has been posted before but I thought you guys might be interested. It looks really promising although it doesn't have much content right now. Of particular interest is the Sound Bites section, which is empty now but promises to have content at some point, and the merchandise sectiowhich I am looking forward to contributing some of my paycheck towards.

Check it out folks.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 16:52:45 CEST 2001 from dialup-350.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.94)

Hank

...Hello....Again!!!!......OK....I thought a few of you would be interested....It's been all over the Irish Radio RTE news reports that a Nigerian man was arrested in Dublin yesterday in connection with a money scam that involved people being solicited by letter or e-mail.....the promise of $$millions$$ and all that......I've been getting those e-mails and I know some of y'all been getting them, too........maybe this is the end of it.......I dunno......one guy, a farmer from Co. Cavan, was swizzed outta 170,000 Irish punts!!!!......sad.........

Give it Away Give it Away Give it Away Now........... Ah, MATTK, but howsaboot The Peppers backing Bob on "Subterranean Homesick Blues"? Hey, dude, take care of youreself...get plenty....REST........

Diamond L'il.........you and your children are beautiful......remind them that MOST bullies never see the world 'cos they hardly ever move far from the neighbourhood they grew up in.......whereas MOST bullied kids grow up, move out, see the world and are, in the end, wiser and cooler......it's a fact.......

Posted on Fri Sep 7 16:46:35 CEST 2001 from (209.100.37.239)

Chris

Tommy: I would love to hear some of those half done Band covers by the Beatles as well. I have a feeling however that they would be disappointing.

Joy: Tell your friend Ray Schweighardt that his book is a great read. Further if there's any way I can contact him about the primary source recordings I would love to hear them. I think Tommy would as well.

I am also a fan of dots...

I am wondering if any of you fine musicians out there would care to share some songwriting methodology with me. I love to write lyrics but due to limited chord knowledge...mostly major chords with some minors thrown in...I sometimes cannot then determine what the right chord or key the music should begin in. I am familiar with progressions and can structure I-IV-V songs with ease but the actual starting point is difficult. I am a drummer who has recently disbanded his group because the bass player and the guitarist were both on seperate ego trips and couldn't stand each other. The keyboardist and I plan to do more work and pick up a couple more players but I would like to have the songs layed out and simply have the new guys learn the piece. That's a little tough for the drummer. My guitar playing is rudimentary and stops at strumming. What are succesful ways to communicate the songs and does anyone have tips on writing.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 16:18:37 CEST 2001 from (130.219.229.173)

BK

As a longtime lurker and occassional poster I've noticed that no matter how ugly it gets, it always gets back to normal after a while, so folks thinkin about gettin outta Dodge, just hang in, have a beer (coffee...tea...?), and wait for the smoke to clear. It'll all come back around.

On another note - Inspired by Bob Margolins posts yesterday I went home and listened to his CD "My Blues, My Guitar" Holy Cow! Everything from down and dirty Delta/Chicago style to uptown blues (a la Gatemouth Brown). What a treat to rediscover, I highly recommend it.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 16:05:44 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Ben: Jan has posted both of the Last Waltz reviews that you mentioned in the Library section of this site (click on concert reviews under "articles"). Greil Marcus' review of The Band's first Winterland concerts in 1969 is also included in this section.

We all can't thank Jan enough for all the hard work he continues to devote to maintaining this great website. Hopefully a few bad apples that fall from the tree on occasion will realize that freedom of speech often comes at the price of exposure of ignorance. The worldwide web is filled with hate sites -- if that's what you're looking for, go elsewhere. Come here to extol the wonders of music, The Band, Rick, Richard, Garth, Levon, Robbie and all their brothers in arms.

"Ain't no haint gonna run me off!"

Posted on Fri Sep 7 15:44:46 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tc083.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.188)

franko

Jonathan Katz is hereby expelled from the GB Lurkers Union (GBLU) due to excessive posting - come to the office and turn in your card. Based on your list, Peter, it's a good thing Al Stewart's coming to town. I actually left the GB several months ago, unannounced, but nobody noticed and nobody e-mailed. I neither turned lights on nor off, trying not to draw attention, and also because I couldn't locate the switch.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 15:32:40 CEST 2001 from garco.cpe.newsouth.net (64.90.4.86)

Mike Carrico

A few random notes on our community from a committed guestbook regulurker...

If the folks who come here because of their love for and appreciation of The Band begin to leave because of a few disagreeable bastards...well, there goes the neighborhood. One thing that has become clear in the short history of these here United Snakes, is that one of the prices of freedom is having to put up with a lot of crap; and Jan (God bless him) lets freedom ring here. But the addition of one Bob Margolin is worth more than a whole crateload of creeps like the one most recently bounced out of here.

So my request to those who are contemplating flight from this site would be to nix the Uhaul and reinvest in the neighborhood.

.........and (with a nod to my buddy Hank), dot's dot.........

Posted on Fri Sep 7 15:28:09 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Sorry Jan, great, great site but can cyber stuff get a sewage treatment attachment??? Lotta crap flowin! Hmmm,.....maybe lites will stay on but nobody at home!!! Or maybe, ... a couple flushes and we'll be back to normal?

Posted on Fri Sep 7 15:00:51 CEST 2001 from hvc-24-164-172-134.hvc.rr.com (24.164.172.134)

Dennis

Gettin' kind'a chilly here in the Catskills. This morning's Woodstock news brings a sad obituary: Hayward Hale Broun (sp?), longtime CBS sports analyst and Woodstock resident passed away in Kingston this past Wednesday. What sports and horse racing fan can ever forget those coats, let alone his down-to-earth commentary? Gosh, I miss those coats already.

Regarding both Mr. Margolin's guest appearance, HI's mention of great online music from WFUV-FM (Fordham University in NYC), and Mr. Viney's lament of no live music, perhaps the best (and safest DWI-wise) is right here at our fingertips:

The House of Blues site (www.hob.com) has, for years, offered over 700 live streaming shows. Above, I think I've provided a link to their concert archives.

Mr, Margolin is featured on two of those shows:

1. From the concert archives page, choose "P" for the show featuring Pinetop Perkins (and our friend) live from the HOB in Cambridge, Ma, 3/31/2000. While in the "P's" you may want to spend some time listenin' to the show by Carl Perkins, and then,

2. Again, from the concert archives page, select "R" for the Rolling Fork Revue, also featuring Mr. Margolin, live from the San Francisco Blues Festival, 9/18/1999.

Peter, you can then safely turn it up, roll one up, and check out some good entertainers right up your alley.....

Hey, how's about a couple of days of suggested online music sites: I'd suggest for starters www.philzone.com, click on "sounds" and check out Acadian....

Last plug (for Rambo), don't forget great live music: Guru's this weekend, check 'em out and....

ENJOY!

Posted on Fri Sep 7 14:53:15 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

Dave Z: The item on Garth's head doesn't look like a percussion instrument, although it might be a guiro (the cylinder with ridges that you play by rubbing a stick along it.) I like the second picture, with Ruth holding an exercise grip. It reminds of the "Blonde on Blonde" picture of Bob with the pliers.

I really appreciated Robbie's comments in the interview. His comments cleared up a lot of the mystery in the whole "feud" debate. (Doesn't "feud" strike you as the wrong word? It implies two parties, each of which is angry with the other. Whereas in the sad situation of our Heroes, it seems all the anger is flowing one way. I don't believe I've ever read one bad word from Robbie about the other Band members.)

Posted on Fri Sep 7 14:31:30 CEST 2001 from spider-wa034.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.34)

Ben Pike

Peter V: contemplate something truely depressing: Beatlemania on video. Thanks god it's out of print. For those of us old timers who saw "The Last Waltz" in it's first run, it was truely funky and exciting. Remember, this was still really the pre video years, you couldn't track down some weird movie Richard was in in Canada, so other than Robbie's intro's on "Rock Of Ages" this was the first time we really got to hear what any of them sounded like in conversation, even those of us who were the hardest of hardcores. The movie got a lot of good reviews and I believe did surprisingly well at the box office. It would be neat if we could post the reveiws of the original show by Emmet Grogan and Greil Marcus on the site. Marcus actualy complained about the show's ticket price, I believe 35 bucks including dinner. At any rate, it was a show, take it for it's all and all, we will not see it's like again.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 14:31:03 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

grumble grumble grumble...allnighter...

grumble...Don't go Donna...grumble grumble...

Would' that be a "dotlegger," Hank? grumble...grumble..

Ok, I'm really overtired. But now I have to go to sleep with Bob Dylan singing "Catholic School Girls Rule" ringing in my head. Thanks Hank. Thanks a lot.

grumble grumble grumble

Posted on Fri Sep 7 13:36:55 CEST 2001 from dialup-351.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.95)

:::::H....A....N....K:::::

:::::::::::::::::::::::!!!!!!!!!and::::::::::::::::???????? JON KATZ is a Dot Bootlegger!!!!!!!!!

From now on::::::::DOUBLE DOTS!!!!!!!!!

.............no, not really.......just read Ruth Spencers interview with RR....very interesting....he's very proud of the legacy of The Band and gracious about Levon but, at the same time, he's at pains to distance himself from the whole thing, a fear of being stuck in the past is evident.............oh well, what are ya gonna do?.......some people love the road........some hate it......both phases of the Bands live career are valid.......I mean, no one really seems to mind that Little Feat are STILL rockin' YEARS after Lowell Georges' death, do they?.....why, just the other day, someone posted how great they were live......I saw the Band once in The 80ies and twice in the 90ies....after YEARS of watching TLW and thinking I'd NEVER see 'em....what a treat!........too bad RR wasn't with 'em and sad to know Richard had passed on...but hey! I'm the kinda guy who thinks the surviving Beatles could do a few gigs with Elton John, Clapton (both dudes great pals of Lennon) and Billy Preston.........just for a Beatle vibe.......or at least in Ringos All-Starr Band.........

DAVE Z.....just let it flow....'till you think of the next thing to groove with......Maybe I'll get trippy andf move onto stars************** or $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$omething one day.... but the dots.....the dots is where it's at.......

I heard Nelly Futado on the Radio this morning.......it was alright, a good singer, but like MOST of what's on the radio these days it's hard to hear anyone actually PLAYING anything.....it's all like, electronic ideas or High-Tech Demos.....no one's actually performing..........it's like everyone is SCARED to..........Dylan and The Red Hot Chilli Peppers being exceptions, of course........

Wow! Imagine if The Red Hot Chilli Peppers backed Bob up on a few gigs.....any takers on that notion?

Posted on Fri Sep 7 12:41:29 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp95.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.95)

Lil Again

Sorry for this second post, but after another cup of coffee and some time to read some of the latest posts in here, I realize there's something else I very much want to say.

My 2 youngest kids (ages 10 & 11) used to have a hard time in school with name calling and cruel remarks. ("No wonder your father died, you're so ugly" is one that I remember cut one of them like a knife). After a situation like that, they'd come home crying and not wanting to go to school ever again. I told them time and time again to _not_ let the bullies get to them. It's only fun being a bully if their actions get the reaction they're looking for. Nothing irks a nasty, name-calling idiot more than being ignored. First they'll get angry..but then..eventually they go away. It's boring to bully people who refuse to be bullied.

And so.. my kids have learned to stand up for themselves, and not let ignorant people make them question the validity of themselves. I'd like to believe that there are a whole lot more nice people in the world than bastards. There's strength in numbers. My kids have learned that, and through them, I'm learning it too.

A dear friend of mine once told me to not the bastards get me down. And now I'm passing that message onto everyone who is here for their love of this music and these people.

Thanks for listening.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 11:54:01 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-058.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.58)

Peter Viney

Perusing the brochure with local concert listings for the next few months is depressing. These acts are playing: Rumours of Fleetwood Mac, Bjorn Again, Think Floyd, the Bootleg Beatles, Magic- A Kind of Queen, A Tribute to Motown, The Ultimate 60s Show by The Imposters, Boogie Night Fever, The Royal Philhamonic Orchestra with Orchestra and Symphonic Queen perform the hits of ELO and Queen. Plus theatrical shows of The Legend of Sinatra, That’ll Be The Day, and Halfway to Paradise- The Billy Fury Story. The few real items in the list seem to blend in with the fake- David Essex, The Searchers, P.J. Proby, Billy J. Kramer, Marty Wilde, John Leyton, Status Quo, Errol Brown, Englebert Humperdink, Yes with Symphony Orchestra. After ten minutes looking through, I booked just one concert (a real one) – Dr. John. I wavered over Willie Nelson, but have never taken to his voice. Does anyone else find the parade of full-time tribute bands depressing? You know, a one off concert is fun, but imagine doing it for a living! One of the local halls is a 3000 seater, the other (favoured by Van) is 1200. What I don’t understand is how these halls can be filled by fake versions of the mega-bands, or packages of five or six minor 60s stars, but genuinely great artists are playing small clubs. Is the audience really that small? Seems a lot of people want to go out and listen to live music, but would prefer ersatz Beatles or Mac to (say) the real thing.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 11:37:37 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp95.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.95)

Diamond Lil

Jan: Thank you for adding the lyrics (not to mention the much appreciated translation) to the new Jonas Fjeld tune entitled "Rick". A timely reminder perhaps, of one of the reasons we're all here in the first place.

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 09:30:48 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti063.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.178)

Tommy (again)

Donna;

You are right about the currnet state of the GB.I've always been one in here to focus on the music and good times it provides,,,and also share a little of my own life with you good folks.But, we're not all dicks in here.Stick around,,,If you dont wanna post, that's ok.But at least read and see if things get better, baby.(It couldn't get no worse!)

Also,,,Crabby;

No MTV Video Awards???Shame on you!!!I reminded you and everything!!!BAH!(Jamie Foxx is one funny bastard though,in my opinion.)

Posted on Fri Sep 7 09:22:09 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti063.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.178)

Tommy

AJR,,,,,,,

Neil Young did the soundtrack to another Jim Jarmusch film, 'Dead Man', starring Johnny Depp.Check it out.In it, there is mention of a wanted man named "Benmont Tench". which you may know, is the keyboradist/pianist/organist in The Heartbreakers (which you may know is Tom Petty's band).Pretty cool.Also, Tom Waits stars in the Jim Jarmusch film 'Down By Law'.. great movie...Also starring Roberto Begninni(I'm Italian and I cant spell it!) and Jon Lurie(from the band 'The Lounge Lizards' ).Another great movie.Better than 'Dead Man', in my opinion.

And, for my old GB friends, I am drunk..and acting as an inebriated Roger Ebert!!ONE THUMB UP...TO JACK DANIEL!!!!!!Goodnight, folks!

Posted on Fri Sep 7 08:20:25 CEST 2001 from spider-wk034.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.164)

Bayou Sam

Man! this place is gettin' hot.

There was a couple of great hour long shows that I caught tonight on TLC (The Learning Channel) - one was on Mick Jagger, and the other on Clapton. They were very well done with some great old footage as well as some nice interview clips of people today that were part of the careers of both these guys - people like Mick Taylor, Geogrgio Gomelsky, Paul Jones (from Manfred Mann from the Jagger one - and Jack Bruce, Chris Dreja, John Mayall, Marcey Levy from the EC one. There were also childhood friends of each guy. They were good shows. Try to catch them.

Hey - I read in the paper a couple of weeks ago that Dylan was going to do TV spots to sell his new album........I can hear the cries of "Judas" now.

It was nice to hear from Bob Margolin - but what about Stuart Margolin? He was the guy who played "Angel" on the Rockford Files. Ahh never mind - I'm tired...........

Posted on Fri Sep 7 08:16:55 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tg024.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.159)

Donna

I have been debating whether I should even post in here tonight. This has been such a wonderful website that Jan has put together and worked so hard on. I know this post, in most probability will not mean beans to most of you, but I felt the need to come and post one last time!

To begin with, it was such a great honor to have Bob Margolin, post here, as well as others, who I have admired and held with much regard; whom have posted in this guestbook. I have met & talked with many nice people who come in here and post. But the time has come when after putting up with the offensive threads from some of the "very few", who feel the need to degrade and spout in here, have left me with the feeling that this site is no longer a place where I like to come in to read, relax, and laugh anymore. The stale comments about members of the Band, and the tasteless comments about other GB'ers, have made this site an unpleasant place to visit. I first sojourn to this site, with the foolish illusion that the people who posted here came for the love and appreciation, for all the members of the Band. For the gift of music that they have brought to us. Obviously, I was wrong. I can understand feeling strongly about one member more than another member. I have enjoyed the jokes and comments that have been made in good taste, and I have had some great laughs in here. Although, when cruel and just plain rude comments are made on a constant basis, that is when I just feel that enough is enough...

I sincerely hope that I am the last one out, so Bob Wigo. my friend, I will turn off the lights.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 06:48:30 CEST 2001 from 1cust135.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.54.135)

Crabgrass

Damn!! I forgot to watch the MTV Music Awards!!!

Posted on Fri Sep 7 06:36:07 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.114.152.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.114.152)

Pat Brennan

I remember my first hit of acid. "....the great depression was comin' on."

Posted on Fri Sep 7 05:41:48 CEST 2001 from stjhts24c097.nbnet.nb.ca (207.179.171.226)

Java

Seems like I have a few allies. Must be those nice uniforms!

Posted on Fri Sep 7 05:25:20 CEST 2001 from 1cust100.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.100)

rollie

One more for Steady Rollin......The night before the Last Waltz, there was a jam going on in the basement of the Miyako Hotel with Butter, Dylan, Muddy,etc.....Did anybody tape this? Did you partake? If so, any anecdotes from that hallowed meeting?

Posted on Fri Sep 7 04:51:11 CEST 2001 from 210-55-236-20.static-dialup.xtra.co.nz (210.55.236.20)

Rod

Robbie seems reasonably quiet in the WT interview - compared to some of the interviews I've read. I enjoyed Richard's interview the most. It will be interesting to see if Levon slags of Robbie in his one.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 02:17:47 CEST 2001 from tamqfl1-ar5-073-128.tamqfl1.dsl.gtei.net (4.42.73.128)

Gator & Gator's Gal

Gr8 web site glad we found it. We would like to invite you over to our place and join our "Parrot Head Adventure" web ring and to sign your site up with our Free-for-all-Links. Phins Up Gator & Gator's Gal

Posted on Fri Sep 7 02:07:53 CEST 2001 from 24-159-102-250.hsacorp.net (24.159.102.250)

DP

Wanted to add my 2 cents, that was Bob Margolin, and he was so gueniune to answer my email, and hope to meet him at Darwin's, local Blues Bar, when he comes back in the area. If I did not know better, I would think that road rage has hit this site.

Posted on Fri Sep 7 01:39:36 CEST 2001 from www-cache-external.vuw.ac.nz (130.195.196.201)

ajr

Garth Hudson does not strike me as an obvious choice for the sound-track of a fantasy film. Let me stress I’m sure he’d do it brilliantly, if he chose, but I imagine a fantasy film soundtrack as being either Star Wars like or vaguely historical sounding (medieval to Elizabethan) which does not seem quite Garth’s thing. Just my opinion of course.

I would like to see him work with a director like Jim Jarmsuch. I recently rewatched Night on Earth (soundtrack by Tom Waits) and that’s much more the sort of film I could imagine a Hudson soundtrack to. Cosmopolitian, quirky, multi-cultural, multi-layered….that sort of thing. Maybe Neil Young could effect an introductionn

Re. Lord of the Rings--I’m extremely, extremely dubious about the early Aragon love interest/Liv Tyler factor myself but trying to be open-minded.

Thanks to all well-intentioned good people for their contributions here and especially to Jan for providing this venue which has enriched my life quite a bit, one way or another, not to mention providing hours and hours worth of excuses to procrastinate.