The Band Guestbook, July 2001

Posted on Tue Jul 31 23:46:55 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

MattK: Thanks, eh.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 23:38:12 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Not to belabor this Beach Boy thread but...Although I wholeheartily agree that Brian Wilson was (or still is) extremely talented when it comes to arranging vocal harmonies and layers of instrumental textures, I've always felt that that his structual forms far exceeded the actual content of his songs. This I feel is especially true when it comes to lyrics, which, for the most part, were written by others (Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks and even Mike Love). Mr. Wilson took Phil Spector's "wall of sound" approach to new levels of excess, which demanded the talents of the best studio musicians (who were also veterans of Spector sessions) because the complexities far exceeded the musical chops of the actual Beach Boys. The group in later years would grow in numbers as additional musicians were brought along on tour to handle these chores. By the way -- Brian Wilson was also a very talented bassist. Even though Carol Kaye and others actually played the bass in recording sessions, they played parts composed by Mr. Wilson.

I cited "Good Vibrations", distinguished by the eerie-sounding theremin solos, as an example of "psychedelic musical excess". Perhaps I should have also mentioned that little ditty that the Beach Boys recorded entitled "Never Learn Not To Love." That very special song was their re-working of a thing called "Cease To Exist", originally written by none other than one Charles Manson. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury -- the crime as charged is "psychedelic musical excess" -- I rest my case.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 23:36:03 CEST 2001 from 222.good.net (209.54.25.222)

MattK

In the interest of keeping our Canadian and Norwegian friends from "stepping outside," I offer the following link to help resolve future conflicts of language:

http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran

Inne interessen av holder våre Canadisk og Norsk venner fra kampen, JEG tilbud det fulgte koble sammen å hjelpe løse fremtid sammenstøtene av omgangsspråk:

http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran

Ilman. paikka se mielenkiinto ilmaisee omistajaa säilö meidän Canadian ja Finnish ystävä -sta taisteleva, I-KIRJAIN tarjota se seuraava rengas ilm. suuntaa päättää tuleva ristiriita ilmaisee omistajaa kieli:

http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran

Í áhugi af gæsla okkar Kanadabúi og Íslenska vinur frá bardagi, ÉG tilboð hópur stuðningsmanna hlekkur til ásetningur framtíð átök af tungumál:

http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran

I mewn 'r ddiddora chan yn cadw 'n Canadian a Cymraeg ceraint chan yn cwffio, chynigia 'r yn canlyn ddolen at benderfynu ddyfodol chyfryseddau chan dafodiaith:

http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran

I den renter i holder vor Canadian og Dansk bekendte af kamp, JEG pristilbud den næste samkøre hen til løse senere konflikter i sprog:

http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran

In het belang van bewaring onze Canadees en Nederlands vriendin vanuit vechterij, MIJ offerte naar de volgend verbinding voor voornemen toekomstig geschil van taal:

http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran

Posted on Tue Jul 31 23:05:21 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Crabgrass: Sure, take away the harmonies and you have nothing. And take away the instruments and you have an older gent waving a stick in the air. Your point? (Insert smile here.)

Posted on Tue Jul 31 23:04:05 CEST 2001 from slip-32-103-67-108.ga.us.prserv.net (32.103.67.108)

Don Pugatch

Listining to Twilight, done by Rick and Garth from a Mountain Stage concert, Rick says in the middle of the song,"Take if away Tommy" or something like that. Anyone fill me in who is Tommy?

PS Did all the Neal Diamond Fans catch one of the guestbook regulars in the audience at last Friday's Today Show in NYC.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 23:04:04 CEST 2001 from 222.good.net (209.54.25.222)

MattK

Frank Zappa once said that the Beach Boys were one of the few 60s bands he really liked because they pushed the boundaries of the harmonic structure of the pop song - turning the typical I-IV-V-I bit on its proverbial head. I'm not a huge Beach Boys fan, but I do think "God Only Knows" is amazing. Harmonically it's very dense, and melodically, it's damn-near Miles-ish.

Speaking for the Zappa contingent, I'll take the opportunity to remind everyone that the Beatles and Brian Wilson cited "Freak Out" (which pre-dates both Sgt. Peppers and Pet Sounds) as revolutionizing their thinking about what was possible on an album, using the format as more than a pure collection of singles.

Interestingly, I've been listening to The Zombies Odessey & Oracle" album of late. I don't know if I'd call Argent a "genius," but there's some genius in that album - Perhaps Al Kooper should get the credit. “Care of Cell 44” could have come right off of Pet Sounds and held it's own.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 22:55:10 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Speaking of "Whiter Shade", at a street fest last weekend I saw a group called the Prima Donnas do it Louis Prima style. And very stylish it was. They did a similar number on something from "Presence" too. Drummer was Mike Sloski, who also gigs around town with a reformed Checkmates (three ex-Rhinoceros members). Sloski, and one of those Rhino guys, Mike Fonfara, were also in the Lincolns - along with Iron Butterfly's original guitarist, Danny Weis. Danny was only on the first IB LP, so didn't get to do "Inna-Gadda-Davida" (or whatever). Even if excessive, that's still a great song.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 22:53:03 CEST 2001 from 222.good.net (209.54.25.222)

MattK

The Port Dover tape is fascinating to me. That version of "You Can't Sit Down" is so ridiculously fast, but both Garth and Jerry just smoke on the sax line. It's really pretty amazing.

The thing that strikes me most on that tape is Richard. Obviously Richard was incredible throughout his career, but (personally), on the Dover tape, I get a real sense of how much hard living took out of him, even by the time of "Big Pink."

I don't mean to imply that Richard wasn't absolutely wonderful later on, but his range on the Dover tape is almost freakish - even on BP and the "Brown" album, as amazing as he is, Richard's chops were even BETTER earlier on. Please, spare me the thorns if you think I'm dissing Richard, I'm not at all - I'm not saying he was bad on The Band albums, just that he was even better, chops-wise, at the time of the Port Dover recording - IMHO.

When I listen to that tape, I'm constantly replaying the Richard songs and shaking my head. What an incredible voice.

Matt

Posted on Tue Jul 31 22:46:46 CEST 2001 from 1cust110.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.54.110)

Crabgrass

Maybe RR will tour someday with a Band cover band called "The Aggregation."

Incidentally, I still have a few jpegs of Robbie not smoking left and would prefer to dispense them to the 2 or 3 GB hardcore holdout smokers left who need them for inspiration to quit. Please let me hear from you - I know you're out there!!

Take away the ear pleasing harmonies from the Beach Boys records and you are left with little else. Could Brian Wilson accompanying himself on guitar or piano blow you away by singing "Good Vibrations" or "Fun, Fun, Fun" like Paul McCartney could singing, "Blackbird," John Lennon singing "Across The Universe," or Dylan singing "Desolation Row?"

I think not!!

Posted on Tue Jul 31 22:28:46 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-104.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.104)

Peter Viney

I believe Garth could have played, and could still play, anything by anyone at anytime, and I probably started off this Beach Boys thread by likening bits of the new Garth album (which gets better with every playing) to “Smile”. I also feel there was a possible fruitful path for his genius which wasn’t followed till recently, which is our loss. I do think the bootlegged “Smile” full version of “Good Vibrations” is psychedelic excess, but the version edited as a single is the three “Ps” - pure pop perfection. I also don’t feel that great Beach Boys session players like Carole Kaye, Hal Blaine and Larry Knechtel can be categorised as either “excess” or “psychedelic”. Anyway, in the days when you got one jukebox play for sixpence, and three plays for a shilling, I used to go to the Student Union common room to read the daily fish & chip wrappers, and my regular morning starter was 1) The Weight 2) White Rabbit 3) I Shall Be Released, so I liked to intersperse my initial Band listening with a little ‘psychedelic excess music”. Jukebox afficianados will know that you were better off to separate the A and B side of the same record with another selection, or for some reason you didn’t get the B side at all. Intrinsic design fault. If I was particularly flush with cash, I might have followed with My White Bicycle (Tomorrow, aka the Ragtime Song), Hey Joe! (Hendrix version) and A Whiter Shade of Pale. So I never saw the Band as in opposition to a touch of healthy excess (and in their case, unhealthy excess), though they used their anti-“jockstraps and feedback” line brilliantly. “Psychedelic Excess” might be “In A Gadda Da Vida” but in no way TheBeach Boys. Their psychedelia (= mind-expanding) didn’t require chemical stimulants. So, I’m off to listen to Danko, Hudson & Friends doing The Beach Boys’ “Sail on Sailor” off a tape. There’s also the Byrds Tribute Band version in circulation, and Danko / Butterfield Band versions. Rick always sang behind Blondie with great gusto. Guess he must have liked the song. But I don’t think that because you like THIS group, you have to dislike THAT group.

Crabbie: no, sorry, ‘Strawberry wine’ is not as good as any Band song. It’s a fairly ordinary dull boogie. I do wish later variants of The Band had done it instead of “Caldonia” or “Stuff you gotta watch” (as it it’s as good as either) but it is undeniably the weakest link on the three classic albums.

A slight comment on communication. We’ve had posts in several languages over the years, and I guess that’s like standing in a crowded railway station and shouting ‘Hey, anyone else here speak (English, German or whatever)?.’ Subsequently if three or more people start communicating here in a different language to English, then that is a kind of sub-group on the Guestbook, and you can scroll past if you don’t understand. If only two people communicate in a different language, then John made the point – why not just use e-mail? A Guest Book is a public forum and so why conduct a private conversation. BUT maybe two people are in fact sounding out the situation, and by using their language, they are inviting others to join in. There must be a lot of people who look at the site, understand the messages, but maybe don’t feel confident about posting in English. Why object to them sharing ideas in their own language?

Posted on Tue Jul 31 22:29:42 CEST 2001 from spider-tl013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.178)

bob wigo

Bill Munson,

Stop looking at me !

Posted on Tue Jul 31 22:22:09 CEST 2001 from (206.14.153.190)

Joe

Peter; Regarding your comments about groups other than the Stones and the Hawks who might have played "Little Red Rooster" & "Not Fade Away", the Grateful Dead covered both these songs with Bob Weir on lead vocals. P.S. Thanks again for your "notes" about the article.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 22:03:42 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Just a note to anyone whose thinking of going to Garth's 24th of August concert and is coming from out of town. We just had the worst time trying to find accomodations in the area. Never had a problem before. Turns out there is a poetry festival in Woodstock that same weekend and just about everything is booked. Normally we stay right in Woodstock.....this time a few miles out of town.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 21:59:24 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

The Band. The Association. Either could have called itself the Aggregation without changing the meaning of its name.

I'm sure another link could be found through Associate Jim Yester, via his brother Jerry, a NY folkie who replaced Zal in the Spoonful and then joined Zal in co-producing other acts in the NY area.

Speaking of "Along Comes Mary", Ronnie Hawkins' very wildest record is his 1968 update of "Mary Lou", retitled "Mary Jane". Amazing, and amazingly crazy, guitar work (John Till?), harp work (Richard Newell?) and keyboard work (Richard Bell?). Isn't it ironic that marijuana, notorious for inducing mild paranoia in many users, induced such extreme paranoia among many non-users?

Posted on Tue Jul 31 21:43:22 CEST 2001 from (151.198.114.13)

Bumbles

Another Band-Association link is that the Association recorded "One Too Many Mornings"---twice, in fact. Once in 1965, in their original incarnation as "pro-drug" So. California folk-rockers (Art Linkletter wanted parents to know what "Along Comes Mary" was really about), and again, after they'd become champions of soft-rocking make-out music and television variety show hosts, for a 1970 live album.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 21:18:49 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Bones: I may be mistaken, but wasn't "All The King's Men" an enhanced CD that contained bonus video material that could be played if you had CD-Rom capability?

Posted on Tue Jul 31 20:50:25 CEST 2001 from 1cust13.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.54.13)

Crabgrass

Wow!! Al must've been smoking some powerful sh*t in those days!

Posted on Tue Jul 31 20:49:31 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.37)

Bones

RE: Stones and the Band

The (Reunited) Band and Keith Richards did a duet called "Deuce and a Quarter" for the Scotty Moore and DJ Fontana cd. It was a great track, and it was also recorded on video, but I never saw its release. Does anyone know what happened to the video of the making of that record??

Posted on Tue Jul 31 20:44:20 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Well IIlka you made my point and I thank you. Let's all post in different languages. Many of us won't be able to understand; but hey that's ok right? Actually let's make the entire site in the Norwegian language.

For your information, I am not "Narrow Minded". In fact just the opposite. I wanted "ALL" to understand the posts "if possible." You do not agree. Fine. Continue to do what you wish. I have seen so many fine people post in broken English and I was impressed as hell; because I certainly could not do what they have the courage to do. I deeply regret that English is my only language. I have always enjoyed your prior posts and I just wanted to let you know that I felt excluded. I thank you for your time.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 20:33:31 CEST 2001 from 1cust13.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.54.13)

Crabgrass

"Strawberry Wine" is as good as any Band song and beats any Beach Boys song by miles.

When I start finding that every other post in the Band GB is a personal communication in Chinese I'll retire. As Jan suggests on the "Sign The Band Guestbook Page" - "Please use e-mail for private/personal messages..."

It is simply RUDE to do otherwise in ANY language.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 20:10:15 CEST 2001 from user-33qt9ke.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.166.142)

Pat Brennan

Hank, forgive me for thinking that your statement "poor old Brian Wilson does about 1 gig a year.......maybe more maybe less" did not imply two major tours over the last year and a half.

Another Band-Beach Boys connection: Al Kooper in his Rolling Stone review of Music From Big Pink, wrote "I hear the Beach Boys, the Coasters, Hank Williams, the Association, the Swan Silvertones as well as obviously Dylan and the Beatles." Oh my, an Association link!

Posted on Tue Jul 31 19:43:21 CEST 2001 from (209.195.208.10)

bassmanlee

Genius
1.a. Extraordinary intellectual and creative power. b. A person of extraordinary intellect and talent: “One is not born a genius, one becomes a genius” (Simone de Beauvoir).
2.a. A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination: has a genius for choosing the right words. b. One who has such a talent or inclination: a genius at diplomacy.

or Iconclast?
1.One who attacks and seeks to overthrow traditional or popular ideas or institutions.
(Definitions courtesy of Microsoft Bookshelf '95)

Isn’t what rock (and other music) fans and critics like to label “genius” really the combination of Genius (as in 1a and/or 2a above) and Iconoclasm?

Mozart. Charlie Parker. Dylan at Newport. The Beatles. Hendrix. Those that push the envelope, change the paradigm, while exhibiting extraordinary talent and creativity are the undisputed geniuses. Depending on the proportion of the two, creative power or revolutionary fervor, the overall assignment genius can be made for a wide range of artists. The Sex Pistols and Curt Cobain and Elvis may qualify with a tilt to the iconoclast, while artists like Elvis Costello, Robert Fripp, Todd Rudgren, and Prince may qualify with a decided tilt to the excessively creative, even though they are harder to absorb intellectually or relate to emotionally.

But the bottom line is the bottom line. None of the artists we discuss would be remembered now unless they had (a) attained a degree of critical and/or commercial exposure and (b) connected to us on some visceral, emotional, or intellectual level.

There is another element, enigma (“One that is puzzling, ambiguous, or inexplicable.”) that seems to be the key to truly lasting fascination, fame, and adoration. Dying young helps (Hendrix, Joplin, Cobain). Being irascible, unreachable and inconsistent helps (Miles, Dylan, Young, Wilson). The shame is that the term is devalued by its constant (and unfounded) application.

Band thread? While the individuals' qualifications may be argued (and man, are they ever!) collectively at least, I say the Band qualifies.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 17:20:09 CEST 2001 from h0000f8718e9a.ne.mediaone.net (24.218.187.47)

Long Distance Operator

Neil Young. Period.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 17:11:44 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

As promised, I listened to the rest of my tape of the Hawks at Port Dover. After "Turn On Your Love Light" comes "Bo Diddley", then "You Can't Sit Down" (instrumental). Then Levon says something like, "Thanks, good night, see you here on the 25th, the Sunday before Halloween." So I guess it was October '63 or '64. Then there's more music, meaning either the guy who made the tape for me got his reels mixed up or he taped the group on two separate occasions. Anyway, the songs this time were tougher to identify: ??; "Won't You Care For Me?" (guessing at the title; Rick sings); "I Need Your Loving Every Night" (sung by Levon), "Bo Diddley"; "Wonderland By Night" (!!); an instrumental that sounded like "Boss Man"; I Believe" sung by Bruce Bruno, who is introduced by Levon in a manner that suggests he's something of a special guest.

Apologies regarding "Not Fade Away", which climbed to #22 on the CHUM Chart in July 1964. "Money" was a minor hit in Toronto in April '64, not by the Beatles, but by the KINGSMEN of all people.

Thanks, John, for passing along the sad news about Bill Wade. Was Linda of the Chancellors Linda Squires, later of Reign Ghost? I haven't driven into Oshawa for years and years, but just about the worst thing about the place was the sign coming in to town, eastbound on #2: "Welcome to Oshawa, the city that moto-vates Canada". I always thought they should change it to "Welcome to Oshawa, the home of heavy metal thunder" - in honour of Dennis "Mars Bonfire" McCrohan.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 17:07:00 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

The only thing that the Beach Boys and The Band had in common was their label, Capitol -- the American home of the "Killer B's" -- the Beatles, The Band, the Beach Boys and Buck (Owens).

I, myself, could never imagine The Band doing "Good Vibrations". I could, however, envision them standing around joking & saying "We've got your good vibrations -- right here!" That song is perhaps the perfect example of the "psychedelic musical excess", so pervasive during the late '60s, that The Band fought against. That is why their music made them stand apart from the rest.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 15:27:38 CEST 2001 from dialup-322.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.66)

HANK

Thanks PAT BRENNAN on the Brian Wilson Gig Update......but if you check my last post you'll see that I did concede that Wilson MIGHT be doing more than one gig a year 'cos I wrote 'maybe more maybe less'......anyway, it doesn't matter........he spent YEARS off the road and he can't even play on his own or with his original band....he's got to have soooper-doooper backing dudes to play and again, it's all a big payday for the promoters and producers of the show on the back of The Beach Boys initial exposure in the 60ies.......no different from Paul McCartney perhaps, but at least Paul can ROCK and play the guitar on his own and still write dynamite melodies but completely unlike Dylan, whom I was argiung for in the first place, who is STILL capable of making top-class albums with top-class songs and find time to come and play a ROCKIN' gig with Ronnie Wood in Killkenny.........know what I mean? As I said, I really do like The Beach Boys hits but don't gimme this 'flawed genius' rap (Thank you, Peter V.) when trying to flog more Brian Wilson product at me.......the sad thing is that somewhere along the way, between his jerk of a father and the success of The Beach Boys, a talented young man was destroyed. Having said that, I'm delighted to hear he's on the road with Paul Simon.....sounds like a great show...........

I bet'cha The Band woulda done a great version of 'Good Vibrations' if they wanted to.....field day for Garth........ but woulda The Beach Boys made a good fist of 'The Weight'?.......I dunno

Posted on Tue Jul 31 14:54:39 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

I think an important connection between the Beach Boys and The Band is that they both, in their own ways, stand as important representations of American culture in rock music. The Band was much more purposeful about it, of course, but there's a lot to be learned about American attitudes and assumptions in lyrics like "Fun Fun Fun", "I Get Around", "Be True to Your School" (imagine the European version: "Loyalty to the Gymnasium"), even stuff like "Amusement Parks USA" and that Freudian masterwork, "I'm Bugged at My Old Man."

Posted on Tue Jul 31 14:30:14 CEST 2001 from ottawa-ppp3517235.sympatico.ca (206.172.191.106)

Richard

4 weeks ago I couldn't spell geanius! Now I are one!

Posted on Tue Jul 31 13:28:19 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-098.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.98)

Peter Viney

The approved journalistic cliché for Brian Wilson is “flawed genius” (From the Dictionary of Rock Journalism, Vol 47. See also Van Morrison who must only be described as “curmudgeonly” and referred to as either “Van The Man”, or “The Belfast Cowboy”). If Brian Wilson sets your teeth on edge then you’re not going to be persuaded by me. I’m not taken with the “In My Room” style either, but even the hardest heart against The Beach Boys / Brian Wilson would find themselves singing along if they can be induced to go to a concert. Wilson’s recent live effort “Live at the Roxy” would be instructive, and fortunately the soppier stuff is on CD 1 and the stuff I like is mainly on CD2. Wilson suffers from having to (a) get other people to write the lyrics (b) displaying poor judgment in selecting these co-writers sometimes. Though not others. Can you imagine Brian Wilson saying:

“Can you write some lyrics for this? I’ll give you a 50% royalty …”

“Uh, OK, Brian … um, yeah… how about this, ‘Columnated ruins domino, canvas the town and brush the backdrop …”

“What’s that mean?”

‘That’s poetry, Brian. It’s real deep.’

I was about to say that Wilson and The Band are too far apart stylistically to compare in any useful way. But actually, the Richard Manuel compositions ‘Lonesome Suzie,’ ‘Sleeping’ etc could be integrated in a concert with some Brian Wilson stuff and fit. I don’t imagine there was any cross influence, just a similar delicate melodic touch. So Brian Wilson songs that are “better” than “Strawberry Wine” anyone? I’ll confine myself to five screamingly obvious ones: Good Vibrations, God Only Knows, Heroes and Villains, Surf’s Up (I do like the lyrics really), I Get Around.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 13:22:59 CEST 2001 from du1-249.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.249.1)

Ilkka

JOHN DONABIE'S THREAD - THE INTERNET LANGUAGE Sun Jul 12:56:12

In a few lines John succeeded to make the most relevant questions for the use of Internet - or was it only his entry to the inofficiel "The Most Narrow-Minded Entry" competition...
1.) Of course you have right, John: to use other languages (like Dutch which I have done, once) is a destructive thing to do.
2.) At the same time, it is a MESSAGE, a FORM, it says something.
3.) The English language is dominating in the Internet but it is the American English (the British English is suffering) and those who have not the English language as their first language come with different grammatical structions.
4.) You used the word "communication". This is where the Internet as it is today fails. We can see only words. No gestures, no smiles. This is NOT communication!
5.) All you Anglo-Americans, this is only beginning. This is a Norwegian site but the Chinese are coming. Are you ready?

A personal note: English is only my language #4. Because of this I had to do Pro Excertio test in English in the University. To post to guestbook after a glass of 'Cotes de Provence' was not a part of the test. I have realized that it should have been ;-)

Posted on Tue Jul 31 08:43:01 CEST 2001 from spider-wn044.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.169)

Tommy

I'M a geanius!

Posted on Tue Jul 31 06:38:29 CEST 2001 from 3cust85.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.56.85)

Crabgrass

No Beach Boy song even comes close to matching any song on the first 3 Band albums and their first hit "Surfin' USA" was a blatant rip-off of Chuck Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen." Maybe Wilson was a genius at ripping stuff off - but that's about it!!

Posted on Tue Jul 31 06:21:37 CEST 2001 from 9-pool3.ras12.nynyc.tii-dial.net (205.164.242.9)

Bayou Sam

Brian Wilson is, "brilliant".

Posted on Tue Jul 31 05:52:07 CEST 2001 from (207.173.216.82)

Pete Shaw

"Genius" is an overused word, and as much as I love listening to much of rock, I think the only rock musician you could ever apply that label to is Brian Wilson. Some of his work is far more advanced than any other rock has ever gone, and it was done with incredible ease (musically that is--he usually had a collaborator). I think other folks "simply" stack up as extremely talented in comparison in rock music. I lately have found that running into jazz music has shown me those guys are often far more advanced than rock musicians, and that can range with stuff far more violent by Coltrane than the rowdiest rock could ever hope to achieve. Which is not to put down rock. It has the pleasure of tapping into feelings for me that other musics cannot. Hard to find anything comparable to "King Harvest", "Waterloo Sunset", and "Desolation Row" just to name some favorites. Digression, rambling, babble...

Posted on Tue Jul 31 05:38:42 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.86.89.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.86.89)

Pat Brennan

Hank, ya gotta get up to snuff. Brian Wilson did a solo tour where he replicated Pet Sounds note for note. Used an LA Beach Boys cover band--I know that a pejorative statement but these guys absolutely live and die those harmonies--and a bunch of hot players from Chicago, augmented by local classical musicians. He's now touring with Paul Simon.

Genius is like the word "awesome". Both actually used to mean something until they started being applied, respectively, to golf shots and pizza. Personally, I like the use of "Weltgeist", Hegel's capricious dispenser of pure inspiration, when speaking of artists, since no artists--heck practically no human beings, period--display consistent genius. Of course, quoting Hegel makes me something of a genius.

Posted on Tue Jul 31 05:08:48 CEST 2001 from lsanca1-ar21-4-43-218-253.vz.dsl.gtei.net (4.43.218.253)

Dan Blood

Driving to work today and listening to Garth's cd. The first song reminds me of the road. I can just see Ronnie's big Caddy going up and down on the turnpike with that cushy suspension. Get to the next gig. The Saga of Cyrus and Mulgrew speeds up, slows down and cruises mucically, with the same the spirit you'd imagine traveling musicians would put a nice Cadillac through. (Oops, set that parkin' break Levon, don't forget.) There's even a beep-beep in the closing minutes--damn this city traffic, eh, Garth?

Posted on Tue Jul 31 04:51:37 CEST 2001 from dialup-303.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.47)

Hank

Alright......the word 'genius' is a bit heavy, I agree........but you COULD say Dylan is the 'best'.......of course, if his next album is dodgy I'll be wearing mint-flavoured shoes 'round here......Funny, I taught this 19 yr.old the intro of "The Weight" after my gig tonight and he asked me who did I think was better Dylan or Lennon....and I HAD to say Bob.......although, if Lennon was still around, I bet'cha he woulda done some excellent work......I like Brian Wilson well enuff but I figure he lost his Rock'n'Roll edge in the sandbox..........y'see, there's so MUCH bread to be made from The Beach Boys initial exposure that the music trade HAS to pump out this thing of Brian Wilson being a 'genius'....same with Dylan, The Beatles, The Stones, The Who,, Led Zep, Elvis'n'all....you can argue.... but Dylan, y'know, is STILL out there doin' it like almost no other......and making hot albums like 'Oh Mercy' and 'Time Outta mind'....and putting out great solo acoustic albums.....and astounding stuff from years ago on The BTs, 'Biograph' and 'Bootleg' series like 'Blind Willie McTell......I love The Stones but it takes the Stones ages to go out on the road and poor old Brian Wilson does about 1 gig a year.......maybe more maybe less..........The Beatles had stop seeing each other....don't mind goin' out and doin' a few gigs!.....I love THAT about The Beatles, tho'.......the surviving three got offered something like 60 Million to go out and play a few gigs....'No....sorry, la'.

How did I get into this rant??????

Posted on Tue Jul 31 04:40:05 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ta074.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.54)

Brien Sz

If you made a list of the top 5 musical genius's (team can count as one) of the 20th century - how many would be Rock-n-Roll artists? I'd say two tops, Lennon/McCartney, Dylan, with Jagger/Richards as the alternate

Posted on Tue Jul 31 03:08:08 CEST 2001 from pm474-24.dialip.mich.net (207.75.179.34)

Jamie

John D:

Thanks for the news. Very sad and nostalgic for me. I saw Moxy when I was just beginning high school, at the Tim Horton Memorial Arena in Cochrane Ont. Such concerts were always a big deal up north. Beginning about two weeks in advance, the Timmins/Kapuskasing radio stations would saturate us with Moxy music (or Heart, or Trooper, or Toronto, or Jarvis St. Review, or Martha and the Muffins, or Crowbar, whoever it was that month.)and tell us every half hour that the featured band would be appearing at the Macintyre Arena in Timmins and the Tim Horton Memorial Arena in Cochrane. [To this day, I can't discuss Tim Horton doughnuts without catching myself from saying "Tim Horton Memorial Doughnuts."]

Those concerts were among the highlights of the high school year for all of us. He and his band brought us a lot of joy, and I'm grateful.

Jamie

Posted on Tue Jul 31 00:41:47 CEST 2001 from as7-d65-sc-psci.psci.net (63.75.26.65)

Knockin' Lost John

Bill:

The Port Dover bootleg is indeed a post-split from Ronnie. Actually, I've been looking high and low for a copy of that.

Do you think we could arrange something? I know it's not the best quality in the world, but I'd love a copy of it.

Email me if you don't mind helping a fellow Band-fan out.

Thanx,

John

Posted on Tue Jul 31 00:09:12 CEST 2001 from 1cust35.tnt2.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.108.35)

Hi

I hate that genius label even more than King.....I like XTC and Betty Page too.....dylan, I don't know the word to describe him.....no one touches him IMHO

Posted on Mon Jul 30 22:20:14 CEST 2001 from mplsdslgw10poola121.mpls.uswest.net (63.228.40.121)

P.S. 2001

Brian Wilson is a musical genius, and Bob Dylan is a lyrical genius. They both tank in the opposite categories. Andy Partridge I had to say because he is a personal favorite of mine. XTC are the only brilliant band to ever find success in the 80's.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 22:16:34 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

This is more for Bill Munson and some old Toronto Rockers. The drummer from Moxy and the Leigh Ashord Group passed away this week. I managed him in one of his first bands back in the sixties, Linda and The Chancellors. God Bless Bill Wade, who died of Cancer at the age of 54 in Oshawa (home of The Sparrow/Steppenwolf.) Bill is the first person in my age group that I grew up with to pass on. Gives you an insight into your own mortality. Bill gave me the chance to get up on the bandstand to sing Bobby Kris' version of Dylan's "She Belongs To Me." Thanks Billy....I'll never forget you as the first live drummer to do "Wipeout" in your parents basement in Coutice Ontario.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 22:10:38 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tf061.proxy.aol.com (64.12.103.46)

Brien Sz

Hank: Dylan the most consistant genius? From 62-75 maybe ( not that that isn't a hell of a run) but from the late 70's to present, outside of a few gems, has been pretty weak, IMO. The "g" word is used much too liberally..,

Posted on Mon Jul 30 22:09:43 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Sony Canada just released a "new" greatest hits of Ronnie Hawkins that includes a couple of new tracks that were done last year with Levon Helm and RR at seperate sessions. Colin Linden, Richard Bell and Kris Kristofferson guest as well.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 20:49:04 CEST 2001 from dialup-315.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.59)

HANK

Andy Partridge?...of XTC?.........'Making Plans for Nigel' and 'Dear God' XTC/Andy Partridge? A Genius?.........hmmmmmnnnnnn.....OK......Well, whatever.......'Nigel' is a brilliant song and so is '12345 Senses Working Overtime'.........sorry, folks....the only CONSISENT songwriting genius on the block is Bobby Dylan.....no contest.....and every one of the other nominees would concur with that, I'd say........I was at a small party after a gig last Friday night and "Quinn The Eskimo' a la The BTs came on and someone said 'What?...did Dylan write THAT as well?'......plus: only Dylan was able to up the ante on the poetic standard set by Chuck Berry in the 1950ies....................

Posted on Mon Jul 30 20:47:11 CEST 2001 from blv-proxy-01.boeing.com (12.13.226.11)

Robert J Burns

I'm looking for a copy of "The Complete Last Waltz" 4 CD set.I attended the concert and would like to have this original complete copy of the concert. Thanks.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 20:10:24 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-127.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.127)

Peter Viney

re. The Hawks stage act. My point was that the inclusion of Not Fade Away, Little Red Rooster, Money & Twist & Shout in their stage act in 64/65 was related to the commercial success of the four songs. If they spent half their time in the USA, then the US chart was as relevant as the Canadian chart in dictating their set list. It’s confused because British and US releases differ. All these songs had a high profile on LP or single. ‘Not Fade Away’ single was US#48, the American LP version (England’s Newest Hitmakers) got to US#11. ‘The Rolling Stones Now!’ contained Little Red Rooster and got to US #5. ‘Twist & Shout’ was on the American LP “Introducing The Beatles’ (US#2) and ‘Money’ was on the American LP ‘The Beatles Second’. (US#1?). I can’t see what happened to the Stones’ version of ‘Money’ in the US, which was on a British EP. Maybe it’s now a rarity (it’s a good little EP which also had ‘Poison Ivy’ ). But all four were prominent. I wouldn’t question that The Hawks learned their versions from the Isley Bros, Barrett Strong, Buddy Holly and Howlin’ Wolf. Nor that they may have been doing them before the Beatles and the Stones. Just about EVERY group in the world did both Money and Twist & Shout around that time. Not so many did ‘Little Red Rooster’ and the sort of groups that did, wouldn’t have done Buddy Holly. I’d bet that the only two groups that did BOTH ‘Little Red Rooster’ AND ‘Not Fade Away’ were the Stones and the Hawks. That can’t be a coincidence. By the middle of 65 when Dylan turned up, any hip audience in the US would have associated these songs with The Beatles and The Stones. The Hawks might have known them for years, but the presence of all four crowd-pleasers must have been due to the fact they had become well-known. That’s why Greil Marcus made the “walking juke box” comment, which otherwise wasn’t very accurate. I’m not a great Stones fan, though I think they were amazing until ‘Exile on Main Street’ at least. And ‘Let it Bleed’ is (with ‘Surf’s Up’) one of my all time favourite albums.

John W. I’d add that Elvis had a far better band than the competition for most of his career.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 20:10:12 CEST 2001 from (209.19.78.25)

frank dracman

I was waiting to tell of what I think of Ronnie Hawkins/Hawks "The Roulette Years". Pehr just post Re: Hawk/Roulette, so it's time. Ive bought a few sets/anthologies and then regretted, because it was doubles. I am in my thirties and didnt become a huge fan of the boys until early 80s. I bought Best of Ronnie H and the Hs early and then I saw this disc soon after it was released, and It would make my 1st Hawk purchase complete doubles. It's a 2 disk and its awesome. I bought all the new stuff on day1 and the reissues are are like new stuff "it is to me". But when I heard these 2 disks it was a HUGE HUGE shock. # 2 especially and the stuff they did when Ronnie didn't show up - wow, "what a party" and how it pre-dates "She Don't Love Me" was really cool to hear.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 19:55:06 CEST 2001 from (12.33.126.131)

John W.

It was on this date in 1954 that Elvis Presley made his first professional appearance, in Memphis. I agree with the opinions stated here that Elvis was not an originator of rock and roll and also that he was basically out of date and out of touch by the early 60's. However, I don't think it's quite fair to lump him in with all the bland white artists that were ripping off the real R&B performers. It is a shame how people like the Moonglows and Little Richard had their records lifted by people like the McGuire Sisters and Pat Boone, and the copy cats probably saw 10 times more money than the originals. Elvis obviously was doing the same thing, but as a performer he had a whole lot more cool soul than any of these others. He did not invent rock and roll, but he became so popular that he did more to familiarize people with it than anyone else ever did. Nobody else was ever cooler or had better moves on stage. And if you want to see him today, look at Lisa Marie -- such a resemblance, it's scary!

Posted on Mon Jul 30 18:34:24 CEST 2001 from m20677150209.austin.cc.tx.us (206.77.150.209)

pehr

Hi: To answer your questions, IMHO, yes, yes yes. Ronnie's Roulette stuff is some of my favorite music, particularly in Rock n Roll. Hawkins was a legendary performer with tricks of his own that are still talked about that I wish I could have been around to see, like the flipping off walls and "Camelwalk", etc.

I wouldnt know if he was an innovator per se, but not many were doing the first wave of Rock and roll, but out of his own sphere of influence he put his own bands together and these were amazing bands and amazing musicians. He discovered and developed RR, Levon, Garth, Rick and Richard, along with less known but equally rare and brilliant skills of others such as Domenic Troiano, Sandy Konikoff, Stan Szelest, Roy Buchanan and others. There was no "Colonel" taking care of him, only a record label that knew how to screw people in spades, evidently. I think he deserves alot of credit- he's a survivor if not an Icon, and any ommision from the "Official " history of Rock and Roll isnt due to a lack of talent or originality as his records will attest. His performance in TLW is electrifying, IMHO- elvis by that time was pathetic and didn't know who he was it would seem.

I'm willing to go by Peter V's standard of pre 1962 criteria, but that is just before my time. By those standards I find Betty Page no less interesting as an artist than elvis.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 18:10:04 CEST 2001 from 3cust63.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.59.63)

Crabgrass

I stand corrected - it was the Four Freshman. My favorite group of that genre is SCTV's Five Neat Guys but I think they came along later.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 16:43:00 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti044.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.169)

bob wigo

P.S.

P.S. The mention of Ray Davies as one of the greats is long overdue here.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 16:38:40 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti044.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.169)

bob wigo

Caught a really good local band called "The Dukes of Destiny" this past Saturday evening at a great spot called The Point in Bryn Mawr, Pa. The keyboard player introduced a "Bob Dylan" song that he loves and proceeded to cover "Tears of Rage". A very nice rendition. During the break I introduced myself and mentioned the obvious oversight which he questioned. I do hope Richard gets his due upon the next introduction of that beautiful piece of music. Later in the evening a bassist sat in for one tune--"The Weight". They did a great job with it and he sang it with great sincerity and energy. Made my night.

The Band lives on.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 16:10:51 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

In other news, I dug out a cassette marked "Hawks at Pt Dover" from the closet. Muddy, poorly miked, etc., but here are the songs I've heard do far: "Comin' Home" (at least I think that's what it is - lots of Penfound flute work a la Herbie Mann); "Do The Honky Tonk" (guessing at the title here); "Twist and Shout"; "Georgia"; "Not Fade Away"; "Kansas City"; slow blues with two saxes; a song that might by titled something like "That's Why I Know"; ??; "Turn On Your Lovelight". So far it's all Hawkins-free, so either an early set without him or post-split. I may fight my way through the rest of it tonight.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 15:58:06 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Crabgrass: Brian Wilson patterned the Beach Boys' harmonies after those of the Four Freshmen, not the Lettermen. The latter men were a boring '60s group, not a boring '50s group.

Peter: I don't want us to repeat the whole discussion about the influence of the Stones and the Beatles on the Hawks, but the presence of "Little Red Rooster", "Not Fade Away" and "Money" are not, it seems to me, good arguments. The Stones/Beatles versions weren't hits here, so there's no reason for our guys to have played them to please their crowds (who were generally years older than early Beatles fans in any case). "Twist and Shout" by the Beatles was a hit, but the Isleys' version was and remains a dance favourite on its own. Finally, "Money" appeared an album released by another of the big bands on Yonge Street, the Motley Crew in 1962 or '63 - so the song hadn't lost its currency in the local bars.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 06:47:34 CEST 2001 from mplsdslgw10poolb37.mpls.uswest.net (63.228.41.37)

P.S. 2001

Brian Wilson not a genius? He was a much better musical composer than Lennon and McCartney. Listen to "Surf's Up" or "Let's Go Away For Awhile." No pop composer could compose and arrange so perfectly. Paul McCartney, Burt Bacharach, Ray Davies, and Andy Partridge of XTC are with Brian, the greatest composers of pop music in the last 40 years. But Brian had a level of complexity that makes him the greatest.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 04:37:46 CEST 2001 from (141.149.91.56)

Scott

It's been awhile for me to post here. When are The Honky Tonk Gurus & Levon and The Barn burners going to release cds ????? I hope soon !! I also would like to see Rick Danko cd's released, live stuff etc...Just a thought....

Posted on Mon Jul 30 03:28:41 CEST 2001 from akcf2.xtra.co.nz (203.96.111.200)

Rod

Dave Z , I think I know what you mean by the "ramped up" part on Saga. I find this bit a bit irritating and is probably why Saga is the only track on the CD I can't get into. The rest of the album is great though.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 01:46:59 CEST 2001 from roc-24-95-208-75.rochester.rr.com (24.95.208.75)

Dave Hopkins

Dave Z: I'm right with ya on the Buffalo Springfield box set...one of the best such compilations, in my opinion. I hope the upcoming Band box set is half as well done as this.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 01:03:36 CEST 2001 from spider-tm053.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.68)

JTULL Fan

PROTEST*PROTEST*PROTEST*PROTEST. I just checked the 'related' section and found missing one Mr. Ray Charles. I understand Ray was a strong influence on Richard Manuel's vocal style, and with Richard having performed Georgia on my Mind, You Don't Know Me, Tura Lura Lura (Yes, listen to Ray Charles'version)an probably others, Ray needs to be added. His vocals literaly make me cry they are so sublime. Just listen to America, A Rainy Night in Georgia, or Somwhere Over the Rainbow. This guy can make the Alphabet Song into something joyously wonderful. So, I need to go, grab another glassful of Barboursville (Virginia) Cabernet, and close my eyes and let Mr. Charles work some magic on me. I have to travel to Raleigh and Charlotte the next 2 days but will check back in Tuesday night to see if any of you agree.

Posted on Mon Jul 30 00:18:33 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-178.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.178)

Peter Viney

Pat: More … more! I mentioned recently how much I liked The Roches "Clothes Line Saga" on "A Nod to Bob" - they make it so explicit instrumentally that the song is based on "Ode to Billie Joe" - it was too subtle for me on the original. Also after an hour's consideration, I'll nominate Guy Davis "Sweetheart Like You" with Levon on drums as equal to the original. That's rare for a Dylan song (but not when any of The Band were involved).

Posted on Sun Jul 29 22:12:31 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.118.173.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.118.173)

Pat Brennan

Well, well, well. A new four disc Basement Tapes comp just surfaced, claiming a huge leap in quality over the circulating 5 disc collection. Also, a competing 11 (as I read it) disc comp of all things basement has also surfaced, including much hard to find Hawks/Band stuff.

Posted on Sun Jul 29 19:52:24 CEST 2001 from spider-tj042.proxy.aol.com (152.163.213.192)

Dave Z

I like the low rumbling synthesizer sound I hear early in The Breakers... it's one of my favorite Garth sounds... reminds me a little in feel of Robbie's low guitar sound... always hidden in something else... or Garth's playing on Gamblers Blues... I find myself being bothered though by one of the early ramping up parts of Track 1 (Saga)... but at least it makes the more calmer part following it seem more emphasized... There's a good song about "Elvis"... kinda... on Trudell's Grafitti Man... called Baby Boom Che'... His website also says supposedly he is selling a song CD (?) only at his shows... called DNA... I was wondering if that was the tune he did with Robbie in the Making A Noise PBS video?... Thanks John D for identifying David Blue whom I don't know in the BT cover... now I've got another music link to follow and see what I can learn... and my apologies to Ilkka... I've got 4 "l's" in my middle name and I guess I keep trying to give one away whenever I can so lol... Today I am listening to the Buffalo Springfield Box Set...

Posted on Sun Jul 29 17:48:15 CEST 2001 from spider-wd013.proxy.aol.com (205.188.193.153)

butch

sorry to all that went to Mt Baker Festival for Levon & The Barn Burners,,,

classic story of booking agency screwing the musicians,,,

Piedmont agency, who booked us for this festival, really wanted Levon for another all-star show, with other folks,,, they promised us to book us from MN to WA & back to NY,,,,THEY LIED & DID NOT DO IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we could not drive from minneaoplis to washington & back to ny for one show,,

we told them & told them, & they thought,, well who knows WHAT they thought,,

we are truly sorry to all that were inconvenienced,, but blame PIEDMONT,, not us,,,

thanks,,,, butch

OFF to Norway with Al Kooper for the Notodden Festival,

wish you were there JAN,,, see ya inna week,,,,,, bd

Posted on Sun Jul 29 15:06:01 CEST 2001 from hvc-24-164-175-110.hvc.rr.com (24.164.175.110)

Tom/Woodstock Records

Hi all - Just a quick note !

For those of you in the Hudson Valley or Tri-state area, Tickets are now on sale for "The Bearsville Show" featuring Garth Hudson - Graham Parker - Professor Louie & The Crowmatix + Special guests : Tom "Bones" Malone, Maud Hudson and many more on August 24,2001 9:00pm at the Bearsville Theatre - Rt. 212 (1 Mile from Woodstock). This is a hot ticket and we anticipate to sellout quickly.

Here's local outlets that now have tickets :

Rhythms - 63 Tinker St ,Woodstock, NY (845) 679-4349

Golden Notebook - 29 Tinker St, Woodstock, NY (845) 679-8000

Burt's Electronics - 549 Albany Ave, Kingston, NY (845) 331-5011

Jack's Rhythms - 54 Main St New Paltz, NY (845) 255-1082

You can also request more information by calling : (860) 567-2582

Thanks - Tom/Woodstock Records

Posted on Sun Jul 29 14:00:28 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp214.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.214)

Diamond Lil

Dan: I know what your mean about 'The Breakers'. I seem to love that tune more and more each time I listen to it. Maud and Garth have truly captured something beautiful in that tune (in fact.. they have managed to do that in the entire cd), and I know that for me, this was all _very_ worth waiting for.

I miss Rick. Constantly. I guess some days it just hits me more than others. Thinking of him...

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.

Posted on Sun Jul 29 12:56:12 CEST 2001 from (209.89.149.111)

John D

I always felt the Guestbook was about "Communicating." This "Tower of Babel" thing is getting boring. If you want to exclude the majority why not use private e-mail? Just a question.

Posted on Sun Jul 29 08:24:32 CEST 2001 from apx1-02-86.pdx.du.teleport.com (216.26.61.86)

Bummed Out

Went to Deming, Washington last night to see Levon & The Barn Burners. Drove a long ways. He cancelled his appearance. I do hope he is okay. Sure was a bummer not to see him though...anyone have a word?

Posted on Sun Jul 29 06:56:10 CEST 2001 from lsanca1-ar21-4-43-218-253.vz.dsl.gtei.net (4.43.218.253)

Dan Blood

Garth and Eric have written music to accompany the famous Renior painting The Boating Party. The Breakers is so beautiful and so joyful! Everytime I hear that walking bass line I want to stand up tall and honorable.

At one point I think I'm about to hear Robbie or Rick's voice but it's Garth's sax. How does he do that? Maud's vocal on the line 'you are the air' sends shivers down me spine. All the other songs are great but this one really connects. I think this is what the Band might have done had they kept working together.

Posted on Sun Jul 29 05:20:17 CEST 2001 from as7-d190-sc-psci.psci.net (63.75.26.190)

Knockin' Lost John

Well, earlier I threw out the word "genius" in reference to Brian Wilson. This is very unlike me, since I think words like "genius", "hero", and the like are way overused.

After reading Crabgrass' last post, I have to retract my "genius" label in regards to Brian Wilson. He definitley does not belong in the same club as Lennon-McCartney.

However, I still think Imagination is a great album and I retract nothing I said about it. And Wilson is an expert on harmony arrangement.

Thanks to those who gave me info earlier on David Blue. Who'da thunk he was the guy next to Rick on the cover of the Basement Tapes?

On another note, I have a new homepage, although there is not much there yet. I have some lyrics posted for a couple of my songs and there's a link to mp3's of those same two songs at mp3.com.

You can't hear these yet, however, because according to mp3.com I will have to wait "3 to 4 business days". Once they are up, I'll let you all know and hope that some of you check them out.

Later,

John

Posted on Sun Jul 29 04:55:47 CEST 2001 from dialup-315.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.59)

Hank

I listened to 'Lover, You Should Have Come Over' by Jeff Buckley tonight and got a Garth-Rick-Band vibe off it........I know Rick would'nt go for the Robert Plantonian vocal histionics, but the whole thiung made me think 'Band'.........Anyone else?.........I'm always knocked out by the performance of that song, anyway.........

Posted on Sun Jul 29 02:32:47 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

die van het gras bedoel ik dan natuurlijk, spreekt vanzelf......

Posted on Sun Jul 29 02:29:04 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert (again)

btw "eceltic" means "wat ben ik toch een grote eikel"

Posted on Sun Jul 29 01:49:49 CEST 2001 from spider-wk052.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.172)

JTULL fan

Slow out hear! Everyone must be on vacation. Peter Viney: Agree with you on your last Elvis post. I have been thinking about your review of Garth's album where you mentioned regret that Richard Manual never had the chance to release a solo effort. I have been thinking about this and agree, but also think we have a fair idea what it would have consisted of if he ever attempted one. We need only look at his live material with the reformed band: covers of Ray Charles, (is he on the list of related artists?)etc. ie. You don't know me, Tura Lura Lura, and stuff like 'She Knows'. I would have enjoyed such an attempt, especially if it featured Brian Wilson's Warmth of the SUn. It seems clear he was never going to write again; the post-Robertson Band surely presented a golden opportunity.

Posted on Sun Jul 29 01:49:12 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert (Warning!)

to all GB youngsters: DRUGS NO GOOD!!!......ESPRESSO VERY COOL!!!......

Espresso is the process by which a tiny cup of delicious coffee is made. Many people think the word refers to a type of bean or roast and the term is mistakenly used in this manner. Most coffee roasters have their own special blend of beans. This is usually a mix of arabica beans but may also include some robusta beans to give unusual flavor nuances to their espressos. The bean designated for an espresso is roasted just slightly longer than regular coffee beans so that the rich oils in the coffee are brought to the surface the bean. It is a surprise to most people to learn that this dark roast contains less caffeine than lighter roasts because the espresso process, hot water passing swiftly through ground coffee, leaves more caffeine in the grounds and less in your demitasse. Another important factor that affects a cup of espresso is the grind. "An incorrect grind will result in a poor quality and inconsistent cup," says espresso machine expert, Christopher Cara of Thomas Cara, Ltd. in San Francisco. If your beans are too oily and your grind is too fine, your espresso maker can't produce an even flow of liquid -- it will trickle out with no crema. [Crema is the beautiful, brown cream found on the top of a perfect espresso.] If your grind is too coarse, the espresso pours out of your machine like Niagara Falls...too fast for good flavor and definitely no crema. The best grind for espresso exhibits a fine, gritty, consistent texture. Inconsistency will produce an uneven cup of espresso. Electric burr grinders are best at providing the proper grind for your coffee beans. Lastly, you'll get the best results from your espresso-making if you follow these few important tips: For every four tablespoons of water (one demitasse cup), use two teaspoons of ground coffee which is gently, but firmly, packed into your gruppa (the metal cup which holds your grounds.) Before starting your machine, heat your espresso cups under hot running water or on the machine's warmer. Use low fat milk, preferably skim milk, to make your froth for lattes and cappuccinos.

Posted on Sun Jul 29 01:01:44 CEST 2001 from 2cust49.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.58.177)

Crabgrass

Maybe I'd lump Paul Simon in with Lennon, McCartney, and Dylan - but never Brian Wilson - his overall creative output and the scope of what he had to say (if anything) is comparitively negligible. Somehow, I always knew from the start that Elvis didn't write his own material, yet it was obvious that artists like Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino, and Buddy Holly did - and I always respected them more for that reason.

I can't find "eceltic" in my dictionary. Does it mean that the music on Garth's new album borrows from a variety of Celtic sources?? Now, I'm intrigued!!

Posted on Sat Jul 28 23:52:36 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-045.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.45)

Peter Viney

Elvis suffers from the post-Dylan, post-Lennon-McCartney, post-Brian Wilson attitude we all have in equating writing and performance. Elvis wasn't "an author" in any sense of the word, but he was "a performer" with little competition. Dylan., Lennon-McCartney eyt rewrote the rule book. So judge Elvis according to the pre-1962 rules. And he comes out pretty well.

Posted on Sat Jul 28 23:26:46 CEST 2001 from (24.159.102.250)

Don Pugatch

Ron, lost your email address, Got everything, thanks, email me and we will do it again.

New Garth, play with the ears wide open, Creative, Collective, eceltic, Super califragilistic, need more istics to describe

Posted on Sat Jul 28 21:53:46 CEST 2001 from 1cust242.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.54.242)

Crabgrass

For song samples of Public Enema just click on the "Web Page." Personally, I think they're better both musically and lyrically than Nicky Love.

Posted on Sat Jul 28 20:14:22 CEST 2001 from pool-63.49.28.194.mmph.grid.net (63.49.28.194)

Dexy

Site above is the best Beatle news page on-line. Lots of reviews of Ringo's just-begun 2001 All-Starr tour (all very positive), and updates about George. There's supposed to be a story on www.time.com about George on Monday. My Garth CD has yet to arrive, is still on its way...

Posted on Sat Jul 28 18:34:46 CEST 2001 from spider-wg062.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.47)

Brien Sz

PE's choice of words is more from their 'culture' than lack of taste, education, what have you.., Street Language, for lack of a more PC/sociologically scientific term, is riddled with cursing. Their attitudes toward Elvis may be offensive to you but to their audience, right on the mark. Shocking as it is or seems, their music is worth a listen just so one can get a sense of the anger and frustration of where they feel they sit in the world.

Saw Planet of the Apes also.., *** stars out of five. Tim Burton makes visually stunning movies but story seems to take a back seat. Plus a little more science fiction and less 'human' elements/drama to make the Ape world more unique would have helped.

Posted on Sat Jul 28 17:48:25 CEST 2001 from spider-wa031.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.31)

Bayou Sam

"John Wayne has left the building", pardner.

Posted on Sat Jul 28 08:21:37 CEST 2001 from 36.phoenix-01-02rs.az.dial-access.att.net (12.83.64.36)

steve hinders

I've spent the last two days painting the interior of an old vacant house and the only music I've been listening to is The Band's second album. These beautiful songs keep re- defining themselves.They've brightened my outlook for the weekend.I'm gonna hang out with a few friends,have a few beers,play guitar and write a song or two.

Posted on Sat Jul 28 08:10:56 CEST 2001 from hse-toronto-ppp176293.sympatico.ca (64.229.74.168)

Blind Willie McTell

My third time tonight through Garth's 'The Sea To The North'

What an amazing record. Wow!

Posted on Sat Jul 28 05:43:03 CEST 2001 from spider-tj064.proxy.aol.com (152.163.213.204)

Bayou Sam

MattK = No, I didn't miss the Public Enemy discussion. I gues that I just think that the choice of words they made to express their feelings about Elvis was stupid, hateful, and just used to shock and rile up people - and sell records I suppose. But that's pretty much my opinion of rap music in general, which is another subject that was covered extensively in here before.

Richard Patterson - I saw an Entwhistle solo show some years ago in a small Long Island theatre. He hooked up with a local rock band and put on a terrific show. There was a great moment where he put his ear to one of his bass speakers and made the sign of the cross in front of it letting us know that it had died. I guess I just think that he could continue to do pure Entwhistle shows and draw interest rather than doing a tribute show of a band like the Beatles. I guess your discription of it as "weird" works best. I also guess that he's done it all and maybe he just figured this would be fun - and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd just rather go to a show and see him do Boris The Spider, My Wife, Success Story, etc.

Posted on Sat Jul 28 05:33:27 CEST 2001 from dialup-086.cork.iol.ie (194.125.43.86)

Hank

Jesus Presley and Elvis Christ?

Elvish Priestly?

If you read Guralnicks Books on Elvis you discover much......he may not have been of African descent but there was some serious voodoo going on there.....pyscho-spiritual stuff.........like Hendrix, the other world had a hold on him and it took him early......a goddamn impossible way of life........

Folks, it's time John Wayne left The GB....just like Elvis left the building........I wonder if Elvis or Junior Parker ever heard 'Mystery Train' from 'Moondog Matinee'? Anyone.....?

Posted on Sat Jul 28 03:36:34 CEST 2001 from a070-1087.chcg.splitrock.net (63.254.249.71)

newlife

Hello, I talked to d in the chat room and I was directed to the guestbook. This is a wonderful thing! I am looking for the words and translation of the Peyote Healing song which is on the same CD as Unbound. Can anyone help? I find it a very soothing and calming influence and I would like to be able to sing it correctly. Thank you in advance. Newlife

Posted on Sat Jul 28 02:13:10 CEST 2001 from pomns-1-65-34-248-170.pompano.net (65.34.248.170)

Nathan Noland

Awesome site! Keep up the great work!

Posted on Sat Jul 28 01:31:31 CEST 2001 from 203-79-98-38.tnt13.paradise.net.nz (203.79.98.38)

ajr

All this talk about John Wayne reminds me to recommend a rather nice film I saw in the last few years called Smoke Circles (or maybe Signals??). Its set in a Native American reservation. Anyway at one point the two main characters hilariously improvise a song with traditional sounding drumming that goes:

John Wayne's teeth, John Wayne's teeth
Are the fake? Or are they real?
Made of plastic? Made of steel?

Their point being that John Wayne never shows his teeth. Its true.

Posted on Sat Jul 28 01:11:05 CEST 2001 from cl3030709-b.mdsn1.wi.home.com (24.183.0.216)

~~SUNDOG SUMMER SHAKEDOWN~~ Prof. "Louie" & The Crowmatix

"Summers here and the time is right for shaking yer bones! Hope to see some of you here!

Posted on Fri Jul 27 23:44:46 CEST 2001 from 1cust16.tnt3.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.109.16)

HI

Was Ronnie Hawkins truly innovative? Did he really make the best records? That's what I was responding to.. All that King of R&R stuff's just hype and BS .It's what's in the grooves that count.........

Posted on Fri Jul 27 22:50:53 CEST 2001 from spider-wo044.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.39)

Tommy

I HATE HATE HATE 'I JUst Want To Bang On My Drum All DAy'...one of the worts songs EVER, in my opinion.

Looks like I'm gonna be seeing the Black Crowes in September.Nice.

***

On another note, I just got back from seeing the new 'Planet Of The Apes' movie.I'm a HUGE fan of the originals, especially the first,,,and the new one does well to not try and copy/imitate or "re-do" the original.It lacks story-wise however,leading into generic action movie terrain at first.There are some cool suprises/explanations for events in teh film though,but all in all a well made action movie.The make up looks swell,though.But what's make up without a good story?(Not that the story is bad ,but compared to the multi layered themes in the '68 original...)

Posted on Fri Jul 27 22:34:55 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

I think Pehr touches on the key thing that divides us. Some of us feel Elvis was overrated as a MUSICIAN. Of course, given the Christ-like reverence that his contributions receive, anything short of a true deity would be overrated. Again, this doesn't underestimate his influence and reach as a performer and as THE main popularizer of rock and roll to the masses.

But is Elvis himself truly innovative, or does he benefit from brilliant sidemen and (at least initially) brilliant production from Sam Phillips? Myself, and some others here, would argue that Elvis was not a truly an innovator in the sense that Chuck Berry, Big Joe Turner, Ray Charles or even Ike Turner were at the same time. I'm sorry, I don't think Elvis "invented" anything.

As a performer and as a singer, he is very revolutionary, but primarily for his unprecedented ability to bring r/b across the color line. Was it Elvis' idea to mix in the country influences, or was he working off of what Scotty, Sam and company encouraged him to do at Sun? Did he take that Sun-rea stuff to another level, or did he ride his incredible performing skills to become a star (and thus extend his reach)?

Elvis was a genius, I believe, in the same way Frank Sinatra was. He had great command of his voice, and was smart enough to surround himself with people that accentuated his vocal abilities, while borrowing generously from African American performers in his mannerisms (hip swivel, etc). Frank borrowed heavily from jazz idioms. He wasn't as innovative as Billie Holiday, Billy Eckstine, or Ella Fitzgerald were. Nobody calls Frank the "King of Jazz."

Elvis is many things. Many of his accolades are well deserved. He is most certainly NOT crap. The King of Rock and Roll? No way.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 22:19:28 CEST 2001 from 1cust49.tnt2.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.108.49)

HI

That's it! Ronnie Hawkins sides as good as Presley...PLEASE...It's totally true about the incredible amount of crap later and his politics but listen to the Sun stuff and early RCA...especially the Sun stuff despite the influences is amazingly original like, dare I say it, Big Pink....listen to Mystery Train by Presley and Junior Parker's versions........ps they're both great....

Posted on Fri Jul 27 21:30:16 CEST 2001 from m20677150207.austin.cc.tx.us (206.77.150.207)

Pehr

Hi David Powell, I'm away from my email, I agree with you. My selection of muddy is almost arbitrary, certainly Charlie Patton, Willie Dixon, Robert Johnson, Memphis Minnie, etc., etc, deserve equal billing w/ Muddy & BB., at least IMHO.

Back to Peter's "justification" of Elvis, which I respect in all honesty (regardless of Peter's, Levons', Bob Dylan's, Buddy Holly's, etc. support) it's just something I've never felt in my own heart of heart that he was a great Artist in the true sense of the word. I know I'm a fuddy-duddy but I am being truthful with mysaelf and you guys. I saw Elvis 1956 and really enjoyed it, but I respect his band for the music, not so much him- Scotty Moore is the giant in that group to my way of thinking- the first records are great indeed, and Elvis was a great singer, tremendous charisma, very good looking and all that, but just not the total package- He wasn't particularly self willed as an artist in the sense of writing his own words and putting a stamp of standards and commitment to his vision in the sense that these other guys mentioned previously did. He put out alot of what I call "crap" after those first brilliant records, (theres that word MattK, :), nor was he to me very "articulate" (Brien?) God, and his wanting to help Nixon police the entertainment industry with all that paranoia), he comes up way short for me and I'll shut up and get off my soapbox and listen.

Band connection? Imho, Ronnie Hawkins blows him away, and the Roulette Sessions takes all that early stuff and matches it, and goes a few steps beyond.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 20:22:56 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Peter, the Dylan stuff after DC is what's normally found as "The Hawks Sessions" correct? Is that the full ensemble. I acutally had that one in my grubby little paws but didn't buy it (grrr) and even put off downloading from Napster until it was too late. Is it worth the effort to scrounge it up again?

Posted on Fri Jul 27 19:51:38 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti034.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.164)

bob wigo

A public thanks to Dave the Drummer who has been more than generous with his time while helping me select a drum kit and all the bells and whistles.

Another aspect of this GB that never ceases to amaze me. I am grateful.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 19:32:48 CEST 2001 from garco.cpe.newsouth.net (64.90.4.86)

Mike Carrico

Recent mention of "The Genetic Method" has got me to thinkin'...it's not a song in the traditional sense, in that there's no established melody or form; it's more a snapshot of the genius that is Garth at a particular point in time. It grew out of his nod to Bach to formed the prelude to "Chest Fever", and at some point expanded beyond that to become the magical musical mayhem that is "TGM". When "Rock of Ages" was released, it was recognized as a song unto itself, and given a title with writing credit for Garth.

I first saw The Band in the fall of 1969, and if memory serves it was already in place as a set piece for Garth, with the others vacating the stage until it was time to launch into "Chest Fever" proper. Was "CF" ever performed live in the style of the studio version, with an intro that stayed close to home; or was "The Genetic Method" in full flower by the time our heroes came down from Overlook Mountain to tour?

Just wondering...

Posted on Fri Jul 27 19:13:45 CEST 2001 from citrix3.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.8)

John Cass

Hi all, havent posted in a while just reading everyones posts some interesting stuff. Little Feat is playin in VT on Aug 7 I have read in a earlier post that they are sounding great can't wait to hear em, its been about a year since I heard them last. Any one live near Rutland VT and want to see a great show at a great Theatre Richie Havens Saturday Night $22 and $18 can't wait Richies one of my favorites the theatre is called The Paramount Theatre it was built in 1913 and about two years ago fixed up to its original beatuy probley the nicest thing in Rutland VT, they are starting to get some pretty cool acts Hot Tuna will be there in Dec.

Well what I really wanted to ask is how ya all think about the new version of Levon's book This Wheels On Fire with the new chapters? I was surprized to hear that there was a updated version. I just ordered it and will be getting it on Wednesday. Is there alot more info or is there just a few extra pages?? Is there any Barnburner chapters in it?? (you all are probley thinking just shut up and wait and read the damn thing)

Whats this news with Levon working with Jimmy Buffett I hope that dosen't slow down the Barnburners especally since we are all waiting for the CD to be released.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 18:40:50 CEST 2001 from atpm3-5-13.enter.net (208.137.243.207)

KZR

Congratulations to Paul McCartney on his engagement. Hope he has a happy life.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 18:27:20 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp160.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.160)

Diamond Lil

Pat: If I remember correctly, Keith Richards was here several months ago to do some playing with Levon. I don't know if that qualifies as "influence"..but it is a connection. And then there was Ron Wood in TLW...

Waiting patiently for the arrival of the boat people here. Tunes and drinks tonight. Wish you all could be here.

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 17:59:57 CEST 2001 from stcatherines-ppp109176.sympatico.ca (216.209.112.107)

Richard Patterson

TOMMY: I saw that Beatles Tribute show a few weeks ago in Hamilton and have to agree it was terrific. Ann Wilson is something huh?. Have to disagree with you about Rundgren being wimpy though... I thought "Open My Eyes" (second song of the first set right after "Magical Mystery Tour") kicked serious ass and was one of the highlights, and every time the energy got high it was because of Todd (guitar on "Barracuda", vocals on "My Generation", Townsend style windmills throughout, "Bang on the Drum All Day", etc, etc.). - Yeah I know "Hello, It's Me"...

B SAM: Entwhistle is up there playing great bass parts to great songs with a great band... he could (and has) done worse. Just kinda weird not sad... Sort of like watching George and Ringo playing "Jumpin Jack Flash" in 'Concert for Bangladesh'...

Posted on Fri Jul 27 17:39:13 CEST 2001 from dhcp21532.sunyocc.edu (198.242.215.32)

Freddie Funkaholic

LITTLE FEAT? They played the Syracuse Blues Fest on July 22. They were marvelous!! In keeping with the ambience of the "Blues" the group through in some Muddy Waters and others.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 17:35:38 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-087.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.87)

Peter Viney

Matt: my bible on this is the concert chronology in Patrick Humphries & John Bauldie’s “Oh, no! Not another Bob Dylan book” (1991). Nobody knew Dylan’s story as well as John Bauldie. Levon says he quit in Washington DC, which was 28 November. They played Chicago on the 26th & 27th (Arie Crown), so if there’s a Chicago tape then it would indeed be the real Levon & The Hawks! If anyone’s got one, e-mail me. (Heylin says “there are no audiotapes of Dylan backed by Levon & The Hawks.”) After Washington D.C. they flew west to Los Angeles for recording on November 30th and December 1st and picked up Bobby Gregg, who I believe was California-based. This places Gregg on those important recording sessions around “Seems Just like a Freeze-Out” (early version of Visions of Johanna). Gregg played with them live from 1 December in Seattle till 19 December, which was dotting back and forth along the West Coast. Berkeley on 4th December is a mess, but to be fair this would only have been Gregg’s third live gig with The Hawks (they played two nights on 3 & 4 December). According to Heylin it was the 3 December that was recorded. Heylin says “Gregg acquitted hinself well” but quotes Robbie, “In the beginning there was a little too much bashing.” Gregg didn’t want to tour, had been brought in because the recording had been booked, and agreed to be a short term replacement for the California tour. Gregg had played on the last two Dylan albums and knew the material. Gregg was back for the January recording of “One of Us Must know” in NYC . Heylin says “How many of The Hawks got to put their brand on the single has not been documented but it is undoubtedly Kooper’s trademark organ and probably Paul Griffin’s piano.”

Posted on Fri Jul 27 17:21:09 CEST 2001 from pool-63.49.29.21.mmph.grid.net (63.49.29.21)

Dexy

Here's an interesting analysis of what George Harrison has been going through (pasting and putting the link above, in case I screw it up somehow): http://www.dallasnews.com/entertainment/427937_george_26new.A.html RE: Todd Rundgren, I saw him in the mid-70s, not long after Something Anything, which is indeed a classic. He came out with a real punk look, hopped around the stage to recorded music (with him on all instruments), and was generally terrific. Only 800 people showed up, and many left, demanding their money back. Second set, his band played, but by that time, there weren't many people left. Everyone who took off was dead wrong -- one of my favorite concerts ever. And after all, he's always been a fan of The Band and The Beatles (ipso facto, his appearance on the tribute tour), so he can't be all bad.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 15:52:29 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Peter, as you know, until rather recently I'd thought the Hollywood Bowl show was the original Hawks (boy is my face red). Once I figured that out, I did some poking around and found out there is a Chicago 11/26/65 show out there somewhere. I'd thought Bobby Gregg replaced Levon for a very short time around Thanksgiving. I'm not sure if this show 8 days early would have had Levon or not. Any idea?

Also, is it true the Berekely show is the first known performance of Long Distance Operator?

Posted on Fri Jul 27 16:04:12 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Regarding David Blue -- his 1976 Asylum album, "Cupid's Arrow", featured an all-star back-up band that included Levon Helm along with guitarists David Lindley, Jesse Ed Davis and former Atlanta resident Auburn Burrell (who previously played with Mylon LeFevre). This is an interesting album, although I'd admit that David Blue's singing voice is an "acquired taste", even more so than Dylan's. Another fine album of his is "23 Days In September", released on the Reprise label in the late '60s and unfortunately very hard to find.

Pehr: I heartily agree with you about Muddy Waters being another giant cultural figure from Mississippi at that time. By the time of his ground-breaking appearance at the 1960 Newport Jazz Festival, he'd had a dozen songs reach the Billboard charts. And let's not forget that the great B.B. King from Indianola, Mississippi, who just keeps getting better, as he proved with his recent collaboration with Eric Clapton, "Riding With The King."

Posted on Fri Jul 27 15:44:34 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Bayou Sam, I guess I'm kind of confused. I'd thought there were three full days of discussion regarding the "value and meaning" of that statement, at least to the guy who wrote and rapped it. It's ok if you disagree with his reasons, but I'm not sure if you missed that part of the discussion, or are simply disregarding it.

Can you clarify?

Posted on Fri Jul 27 14:45:00 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

KNOCKIN' LOST JOHN.....THOUGHT YOU MIGHT ENJOY THIS:

From: Mike Regenstreif CKUT Montreal

Subject: Re: David Blue

David Blue did several albums under that name on the Asylum label. He also did at least one album under the name S. David Cohen on Reprise. The Joni Mitchell song "Blue" is written about him and I've seen explanations of Bob Dylan's "It's All Over Now Baby Blue," that say that that song is also about him. I got to know him back in the 1970s when he lived in Montreal for a while during and after a gig playing Leonard Cohen in a stage show based on Leonard's songs. They're not related and I think that the name change was show biz affectation.

I don't recall exactly when (early to mid-80s) but David dropped dead while jogging in Washington Square Park in NYC. Apparently he was carrying no ID and his body was not identified for several days. During the period that I knew him, he seemed to have a real problem dealing with the fact that his star had not risen to the heights of some of his friends.

BTW, on the cover of "The Basement Tapes" by Bob Dylan & The Band, David (wearing a trench coat and bowler hat) is the guy sitting on the floor next to Rick Danko.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 14:33:20 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-104.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.104)

Peter Viney

In the film Meet the Parents, the hero's surname is Focker. The parents are worried because their daughter's middle name is Martha, so if she marries him …

Anyway, even though Elvis was extremely fond of Gladys I see absolutely no justification for such an ephiphet. Anyone who doubts, for one moment, the King's credentials, listen to "The Sun Sessions" on repeat … or better still, the video "Elvis 56" which is narrated by Levon Helm.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 14:30:48 CEST 2001 from as9-d175-sc-psci.psci.net (63.65.187.175)

Knockin' Lost John

HI

Does anyone know anything about songwriter David Blue? aka David Cohen?

I know the Eagles covered his song "Outlaw Man" and he appeared in Dylan's Renaldo & Clara.

Anymore info from anyone else would be appreciated on this guy.

Later

John

Posted on Fri Jul 27 14:25:59 CEST 2001 from ukscsys.soundcraft.com (195.217.233.205)

DJMitchison

Band songs close to being raps? All of them. Someday, everything is gonna sound like a rap CD, as Levon once sang.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 14:04:41 CEST 2001 from spider-wb032.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.162)

Bayou Sam

PS 2001 - I assume you were referring to my post when you said "don't diss Public Enemy. I wasn't trying to. I simply wanted to know the value and meaning of a lyric like "motherfuck Elvis and John Wayne". I agree with you about Elvis. I think when most people call Elvis the King of R&R, they are thinking of the huge impact he had as far as getting rock music out to every nook and cranny of the U.S. (or the whole world). Our reqiurements for wearing the "king" title here in the GB are different than they were for the teenage girls who thought he was cute and had a dreamy voice. I'm not sure why Elvis should be "motherfucked" for being a success at something he was good at. John Wayne - the thing that kills me about him is that he played all these fighting hero types in the movies, but used his power to avoid going to war in real life. As far as being a country hick (as you called him) - is that a bad thing. I bet if you check right here in the GB you'll find lots of proud "country hicks".

I heard Entwhistle interviewed recently about this Beatle tribute show he's in. I can't believe John Entwhistle is from The Who is playing Beatle songs in a tribute show. I don't know why, but it seems somewhat sad for Entwhistle.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 12:46:33 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-166.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.166)

Peter Viney

Hank - Not to my knowledge. The Berkeley Show (4 Dec 1965) is around, but is with Bobby Gregg and is the worst sounding bootleg I've ever heard. There is a good bootleg of the 1965 Hollywood Bowl show with Robbie & Levon (+ Al Kooper & Harvey Brooks) - this followed on from the Forest Hills gig with the same line-up. It has about three different titles as bootleggers tend to bootleg each other.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 12:38:18 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-170.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.170)

Peter Viney

This GB is beginning to look like the obituary column, but let’s add Judy Clay, (July 19th, I think) who sang “Private Number” with William Bell, one of the greatest performances of the late 60s soul era.

Pat’s right – the Stones couldn’t play The Band’s material. BUT I suspect the reason that Little Red Rooster, Not Fade Away, Twist & Shout & Money exist on Levon & The Hawks tapes is that they had been recent hits for the Stones and The Beatles. I know they took their inspiration from the originals, not The Stones or the Beatles, and may well have been playing them for years before, but I still think the coincidence indicates that they were playing stuff in that combination because it had been popularized. And that’s a mini-link.

A couple of years back a German video of The Band “Live At Loreley” (or variously Lorelei) was announced but it never appeared to my knowledge. This has to be the 23 June 1996 broadcast show which is around on tape. Anyway, a DVD of The Band “Live At Loreley” is announced in the latest CDX newsletter for 6th August release (CDX is www.cdx.co.uk) . Note that this will almost certainly be a German DVD, so North Americans should check what the Region Coding is before they buy. If it’s Region 0 (many music DVDs are) you should be able to play it, but if it’s a European Region 2 release, you won’t be able to (unless you’ve had your player privately “chipped” to play Region 2 discs). It’s of major interest, because this is their European tour of June 1996, which I suggested recently marks the “real” end of The Band in spite of isolated shows later. I don’t know if the show was the 23rd June (after their UK & Ireland dates between the 19th-22nd), or whether the broadcast was the 23rd June. I thought they’d been in Germany before the UK, but may be wrong. If it’s the same as the tape, it’s their classic late show, the only surprise being “Free Your Mind” which they didn’t do every time. It includes “Deep Feeling” –otherwise unavailable officially. ‘Back to Memphis’ is the only other HOH track. Of course the DVD might have more than the tapes.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 12:10:03 CEST 2001 from dialup-380.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.124)

Hank

Are there ANY tapes of the shows The Hawks did with Dylan before Levon split? If there are....are they any good?

Which Band song is closest to being a rap?.....'Up On Cripple Creek' is the only one I can think of.....maybe 'The Shape I'm In'......

Now, don't everybody get silly.........

Posted on Fri Jul 27 10:09:45 CEST 2001 from roc-24-95-208-75.rochester.rr.com (24.95.208.75)

Dave Hopkins

Fellow denizens of the giant wad of self-deprecation: Expecting Rain has the cover for the new Dylan album due Sept. 11 and some information about the songs; click Web Page above if interested.

Joe McK: Your perceptive and deadly-accurate observations have shown me the error of my ways, and thus I respond to your query. The *real story* of The Band breaking up was that Robbie maintained it was "rabbit season," while Levon insisted quite forcefully that it was, instead, "duck season."

Posted on Fri Jul 27 09:35:33 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Sheesh, Joe, since you're AT the best compendium of Band-related information, I guess I figured someone would e-mail you, or you'd notice the "History" and "Library" links to your left. You'll get a mixed bag of reviews on both the Band biographies. Some feel Hoskyns' book is well done, some feel it's a bunch of sour grapes. Levon's book is great for early stuff, and the personal perspective but some people feel it gets so wrapped up in "I hate Robbie Robertson" that gets plain whacky by the end. Both books present a host of inaccuries and inconsistencies to viewed as gospel, though some take Levon's account as just that.

Personally, before buying any book, I'd pour over this site - including the GB archives. After you get a sense of the various "sides" to the various feuds, you'll be able to get more out of the books.

Hope that helps

Posted on Fri Jul 27 09:21:21 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

What's a "biggot?" Is that like a "poseur?"

Posted on Fri Jul 27 08:55:32 CEST 2001 from 2cust18.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.55.146)

Crabgrass

Maybe Gil should've called me. $2.50 is a rather small price to pay in order to avoid unwittingly alligning yourself with biggots. Thanks to all who e-mailed and straightened me out as to the difference between political rap (the "in your m*f*kin' face whitey" stuff) and gangsta rap (the totally tasteless and sexist "nigga and bitch" stuff). I stand corrected and admit getting the two genres confused at times since they are so close "musically" - and I use the word loosely.

Apologies to all those who have requested but still not received your jpeg of Robbie not smoking. I have been working feverishly around the clock in an effort to meet the demand. Fortunately, a back-ordered batch of 2,500 arrived just this morning from Industrial Light & Magic. Thanks for all the heartwarming testimonials from those of you who were inspired to quit smoking with Robbie's help!!

Posted on Fri Jul 27 08:48:02 CEST 2001 from c5300-4-ip228.albany.thebiz.net (216.238.227.228)

'possum

J. McKenna - Lo siento, amigo. Buenos noches.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 08:25:31 CEST 2001 from cache-2.lnh.md.webcache.rcn.net (207.172.11.148)

Joe McKenna

Gee it's nice to see everyone has the "talking to the wall mentality" here. I think everyone would have a lot more fun talking to the wall rather than here. Everyones seems like their blowing their own horn. Why doesn't anyone respond to each other? Does anyone here read any of the other guestbook entries? It just seems like a giant wad of self deprecating people. I'll bet everyone will read this and respond to it. It just shows everyones ignorance or their "choosy eye". I'm sure my question and the many other i've posted propably won't get answered. So anyway. Good day to you all.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 07:47:28 CEST 2001 from spider-wn062.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.177)

Ben Pike

Wow...things are lively in the GB these days. Crabby, nice iconoclastic view on Wilson, but I fear best of the Beach Boys singles disputes your near dismissal. Hard to write off "I get Around" as boring. The whole genius thing gets thrown around pretty loosely in rock, I love Pete Townshend, but couldn't a genius cough up a decent album once in a while? I would like to hear The Stones do "Jemima Surrender". I would also like to hear Levon Helm do "Dead Skunk," the sole hit of Loudon Wainwright, lord high god of all that is underrated.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 07:35:48 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

The revolution will not be televised...

Crabby, why is it you are incapable of making a point without trying to impress us with your accumen as to what (in your opinion) sucks? Did you not get enough attention as a child? The fact that you lump PE in with the gansta genre only shows your ignorance of the style. All opinions are valid, but I question whether yours is informed or merely kneejerk.

That said, Gil Scott Heron is a genius, I agree. Funny, though, Heron is effusive in his praise of Public Enemy, as well as other Heron-inspired rap fathers such as Afrika Bambaata and The Lost Poets. I guess he forgot to dial 1-976-crabgrass to obtain proper sanction. Perhaps he did't want to spend the $2.50 per minute.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 07:11:26 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.208.67.218.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.67.218)

Pat Brennan

Gil Scott-Heron is indeed a monster. "Winter In America" is a masterpiece.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 06:02:40 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti011.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.151)

Tommy

Hey folks, I just saw a FREE show in Coney Island ...A BEATLES tribute concert where the band consisted of Todd Rungdren,John Entwhistle,Alan Parsons,Dave Pak(spelling?) and Ann Wilson....who by the way is a fuckin' amazing singer!She sings just as good , if not better, than she did in her Heart days!She did all the McCartney tunes, and she belted the shit outta Maybe I'm Amazed!Before the Beatles tribute section of the show, all the performers did their own past hits.The Rundgren and Alan Parsons stuff was kinda fruity, but Ann Wilson's Heart songs were cool and Entwhistle sang some Who tunes (My Generation) and he sounded BETTER than Rodger Daltrey does these days.Very impressive.

You could tell that the Beatles' songs they picked were from a musician/fan standpoint..There weren't many Beatles' "hits", but more fan favorites (Everybody's Got Something To Hide..,Blackbird,Birthday).All in all, a good night of free music put together by the Brooklyn Council.

JTullFan,,,,Don't be afraid to write drunk....Hemingway did it!

Posted on Fri Jul 27 05:49:42 CEST 2001 from 2cust110.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.58.238)

Crabgrass

I'd like to see Fats Domino swivel his hips like Elvis.

Chuck D. is a hero to some GBers

but his rap is crap to me

he and black racist Lou who castigate Jews

are no more than a Public Enema.

Brian Wilson deserves the title of the "Most Overrated Rock Legend" and what the Beach Boys excelled at was MOR rock. Wilson's genius (or more precisely talent) lies in harmonic vocal arrangement and his idols were boring 50's harmony groups like the Lettermen. He was not a visionary artist like Dylan, Lennon, McCartney, or even Harrison and certainly no creative melodic genius either.

Gil Scott-Heron has more brains and more talent in his pinky than all of the more recent day gangsta crap rappers put together.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 05:38:56 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Buddy Holly was indeed ahead of his time. Some people look at his body of work as simple R&R ditties. Not true at all. Roger McGuinn of The Byrds credits Holly as taking Rock & Roll away from the three major chords; which was the pattern of the day. Buddy played minor chords; which was not being done by any Rock & Roller at that time and we all know that he played the notes by strumming straight down….never up and down as most. Keith Richards is a great admirer of Buddy’s style as were The Beatles. We know that even though Buddy got his start in country music, it was R&R that drove him. Being produced in Nashville by the legendary Owen Bradley who did so much for others (Patsy Cline etc.) was not Buddy’s cup of tea.

I believe that Buddy; with the way he handled his music both on and off stage would have evolved much like McCartney. He had a keen business side to him and I think that publishing would have played a big role for him. He could have been a one man, Acuff-Rose if he had lived. Unlike Sam, I don’t think he would have stayed in Rock and Roll i.e. Woodstock etc as a performer. I believe he would eventually end up in Nashville, L.A. or New York evolve into management, writing and publishing. He would never have become an oldies act. I could see him writing #1 hits for other artists as well. I think that from time to time when it fancied him he would release an album. Not sure what direction it would take. I think it would always have an edge. I would have loved to see what he would have done as a producer, in the studio as well. We’ll never know and all of us have our thoughts on what would have happened to Buddy. I was so pleased a few years back to see Paul Hipp in the Buddy Holly Story. It gave me a look into what was a very calculating and bright young Texan from Lubbock; with a bright future cut off too soon. Too soon gone.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 05:15:34 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.208.67.218.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.67.218)

Pat Brennan

If I recall correctly, we've all been over this Rolling Stones thing before and jointly came to the conclusion that the Stones had absolutely no influence on The Band. Not one note, anywhere. The Stones probably couldn't even play most of the Band's catalog. Can you imagine them butchering Unfaithful Servant? Ouch.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 04:44:14 CEST 2001 from mplsdslgw10poola253.mpls.uswest.net (63.228.40.253)

P.S. 2001

Hey-Dont diss on Public Enemy. They're the best rap group of all-time. Chuck D is a lyrical genius, and a great fighter for what he believes in. Elvis was influential and without him music wouldnt be the same today. But he really got credit for more than he deserved. He was like an entertainer, not an original musician or artist. John Wayne was just a stupid hick. If you guys like The Onion(fake newspaper) check out the 100 year summary book. The headline for one day in 1956 has a picture of Elvis, and reads "White Man Invents New Music-Rock N' Roll." Hahahaha. That's funny.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 04:43:23 CEST 2001 from (146.178.26.8)

Michael

Chris, Have to agree, Dylan in '66 was probably the first popular entertainer to go on stage and confront the audience 'this is what we are playing and if you don't like it, stiff shit', a lot of the 'heat' was generated from the anger on both sides of the stage and I can't think of any other band producing that musical power behind Dylan and any musicians that saw those shows must have known something special was happening.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 04:36:54 CEST 2001 from spider-wa053.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.43)

JTull fan

Just got home with my wife from a winetasting (glad it's my wife or the cats would be mad)so I will be brief and try not to pull a 'Tommy'and write drunk, unless you want to talk about the Confederacy and Jethro Tull. OK: Bonnie from VA: so glad you are getting into Taj. I am proud that it was actually I who started this thread some weeks ago. I picked up Best of 1968-73 and 'Shoutin' in Key, Taj Mahal and the Phantom Blues Band Live'. Highly recommend both. Makes me glad I invested in the factory upgraded sound system when I bought my new car last year. Going to work is actually fun! Love Pet Sounds. I posted before I would die to hear Rick Danko sing Caroline Know and God Only Knows, and Perhaps Manuel sing Wouldn't it be Nice and Warmth of the SUn (ok, not on Pet Sounds)and I reall don't care if it's not rock and roll. Sometimes it's GOOD to work yourself into a song; otherwise go listen to the Backsstreet boys. Well, have more to say but it's time for a nightcap and bed. Oh: loved the Ricky Faatar / Rutles link. Can you image a Rutles-like parody of the Band? Bill Gates as Robbie, Will Gear (Zeb Walton) as Garth, Chris Farley as Rick (older version) Senator Robert Byrd as Levon, and God, can't think of one for Richard, perhaps Ray Charles. Don't mean to offend with these, I'm just trying to think of a good natured parody so please don't piss all over me for it.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 04:23:54 CEST 2001 from ny-lasalle1a-85.buf.adelphia.net (24.52.110.85)

Mattman

You know I have heard and read many arguments about whether or not RR should accept as much credit for the songwriting for the majority of the songs on The Band's first 7 albums...well if you listen to the last three albums that The Band (w/out RR) has put out, it is a NO BRAINER. Most of the songs are COVER songs and the songs that are written by Rick, Levon or Garth are average AT BEST. Atleast Northern Lights and Islands had one or two gems within those two bodies of work. I would like to say otherwise but I can't. RR WAS the man. J PATRICK CRAIN....as far as any influence that the Stones had on the Band...the Stones influenced every band in some way whether it is musically, finacially, or physically (SEX, DRUGS and the latter).

Posted on Fri Jul 27 04:18:46 CEST 2001 from spider-te073.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.208)

Bayou Sam

I know absolutely NOTHING about Public enenmy - but after seeing the lyrics "motherfuck Elvis and John Wayne", I have no desire to hear anything by them - unless someone can explain to me the value of those words........How can anyone think that Elvis actually set out to rip-off black artists or anyone else for that matter? Wan't it Sam Phillips who set out to find a white guy that sounded black? Phillips made a brilliant buisness move. It wasn't a rip-off thing. He tried to package a good thing in the prettiest package he could, and make lots of money (of course, selling Elvis to RCA might not have been such a great idea). Elvis was a great performer and totally felt the music. Having said that though, I agree with Hank that the un-disputed King of Rock and Roll is CHUCK BERRY. Chuck layed a foundation that is in almost everything that followed it.. .........I liked the quote that Richard Patterson posted by Vernon Reid regarding Elvis.

I think that a guy that we'd be talking King-like about would be Buddy Holly - if he hadn't died so tragicly young. I think Buddy was as good as Cuck with regard to songwriting and guitar playing. The catalog he amassed in his short life is amazing if you look at a collection of his songs (the rights to which are owned by Sir Paul BTW). I've always had a thought about Buddy Holly - I think that as the sixties evolved, he would have molded right in. I don't think he would have remained a 50's "oldies" act. I can see him getting turned on by the whole music change. I picture him performing at Woodstock with long hair and a beard. He would have been only 27 when the British Invasion hit. Anyone else think this might have been? - or do you think I'm nuts? - or both?

BTW - I agree also that Brian Wilson is a genius. I think "Wouldn't It Be Nice" is one of the greatest songs of all time.

Hey - why the hell would anyone threaten anyone in this guestbook via e-mail. Not only is it a chicken-shit thing to do, but it's not funny - not nice - not smart - and not legal.

Sorry about all the spelling and gramatical errors. I'm so tired (my mind is on the blink) - and you get my meaning anyway - and that's what matters, right?......Goodnite

Posted on Fri Jul 27 04:05:10 CEST 2001 from 78.pleasantville-06-07rs.ny.dial-access.att.net (12.79.66.78)

fred

liz; Phil Lesh has played Acadain Driftwood a few times on this tour and has done it on previous tour. I saw him preform it in Phila. last July.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 03:39:25 CEST 2001 from akcf2.xtra.co.nz (203.96.111.200)

Rod

I just received Garth's new CD in the mail yesterday. Only had a chance for one quick listen so far (with the sound of a bored toddler and a hungry cat in the back ground). I really liked the title track and Little Islands but didn't get a chance to really concentrate on the other tracks. Hopefully I will get a chance to listen to it a few times this weekend while getting the ceiling in the lounge ready to paint.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 02:54:58 CEST 2001 from imsbbcf07c.netvigator.com (203.198.2.7)

Chris Far East

With regards to J Patrick Crain's reference to Stones influence on the Band I would make a couple of points. The Hawks were evolving from the late 1950's and this would pre-date the Stones by a few years. I think they had become the Band (in all but name - with Garth) by late 1961. With no disrespect to the Stones the guys were playing close to the "source" of R&R, Blues, Country through their constant touring. This is something that was not available to many British musicians at this time. I still marvel at the Dylan "Live 1966" album. The playing is absolutely incendery and to be honest I can't inagine any English band of the time even getting close. This is why I think the Band was so highly respected amongst Brit. musicians of the time.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 00:29:27 CEST 2001 from spider-wo034.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.34)

Brien Sz

Public Enemy is the Rock that anchored rap into our culture (IMO). It's in your face, passionate, scary, and full of life! I didn't agree with most of what they said but it was honest and from the heart.., It was/is the only rap i developed any respect for..,

By the way - this seems to be a culture thing that's not meant to be racist I'm sure but comes off that way to a degree - the word "articulate", Why is it that a black man/woman who is educated or informed has to be lumped into the word 'articulate'. You never hear that word associated with anyone else. It's done all the time. Sports for example - a white guy interviewed who comes off reasonably intelligent is never called articulte (it's assumed)Whereas a black man who speaks well is always referred to as articulate - no offense Matt K (i'm not saying you are a racist or anything of the ilk), it just struck me funny when i read your post.

Posted on Fri Jul 27 00:27:34 CEST 2001 from m198214181246.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.181.246)

Pehr

Enjoyed David Powell's post- although I've said before, I dont really "get" Elvis, and probably never will. IMHO the 4th giant from Mississippi is Muddy.:)

BOb Wigo, nice to hear from you, while were on the movie thread I really enjoyed the Dylan "unplugged" vid last night. Another is "Jimi plays Berkeley". keep on rockin!

Posted on Fri Jul 27 00:01:05 CEST 2001 from 2cust23.tnt9.tco2.da.uu.net (63.15.224.151)

Bonnie

Thanks to the critique on the Guestbook, last week I bought my first Taj Mahal CD (box set). A couple more days to and from work should see me through the set. Needless to say, I am thoughly enjoying the music. Thanks alot. BR

Posted on Thu Jul 26 23:21:55 CEST 2001 from (157.142.169.45)

J. Patrick Crain

Thanks for the response to my query on the Stones. And I can't believe that I forgot to wish Mick Jagger a happy b-day! For the love of john, I'm wearing my Stones jersey today in that man's honor. Good to hear about Levon getting ready to work with Jimmy Buffett, too. Hey, by the way, I just ordered Rick Danko's 1st solo album off of Sam Goody.com and it says ships within 24 hours. I hope this is correct! If not, anyone else have any other suggestions about how to get it on CD? And finally, I'm so jazzed about Little Feat coming in September. Anyone else see LF recently and if so, how are they live (I've never been to a LF show)?

Posted on Thu Jul 26 23:08:04 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

DAVID POWELL

Pick up "The Most of Dan Hicks and His Hot Licks." For once (twice actually) they put "Milk Shakin' Mama" back on CD, originally from his first album. Hooray!

Posted on Thu Jul 26 23:05:30 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Spoke with Levon Helm the other day and he's getting ready, if he hasn't already left to do so....work with Jimmy Buffet...... playing drums on a session and maybe a video. Good to see Levon having so much fun with his life and family.

Speaking of "typing"....Sorry Steve for the typo on your last name earlier. Thank you for not pointing out my error Mr. Knowlton. "I worked on the Sloop John D...er B, my grandfather and me....."

Posted on Thu Jul 26 22:36:02 CEST 2001 from 2cust94.tnt58.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.42.164.94)

King Whistle

Re: Taj Mahal. Good for Springfield, MA. Anyone interested in pan-American roots music should nose through Taj's catalogue. I'm listening to Mo' Roots now (Columbia, 1974) and it touches a great many bases in and of itself. Also recommended [among many others]: The Natch'l Blues (Columbia, 1969) and, of course, Largo (Blue Gorilla/Mercury, 1998).

Posted on Thu Jul 26 22:32:05 CEST 2001 from mplsdslgw10poolb250.mpls.uswest.net (63.228.41.250)

P.S.2001

You know that old songbook that covered the "Music From Big Pink" and "The Band," what does it have in it? Guitar Chords and Piano notation? Does Anyone know?

Posted on Thu Jul 26 22:26:31 CEST 2001 from (207.190.196.114)

Long Distance Operator

As usual, I must again agree with Hank. Wavelength, dude. The Rolling Stones, to this day, are still The Greatest Rock And Roll Band in the world.

Happy 58th Birthday to the mighty Mick Jagger!

Posted on Thu Jul 26 22:17:09 CEST 2001 from dialup-089.cork.iol.ie (194.125.43.89)

Hank

OK, MattK......I hear ya.......As I said, my only objection is that dissing Elvis seems uninformed and disrespectful.......Gil Scott Heron does it MUCH better in 'The Revolution Will Not Be Televised'......not that he attacks Elvis (although Johnny Cash and Tom Jones get roasted), but in getting across that idea of being African-American and being deprived because of it....would you agree? That's an early proto rap, isn't it?

Someone mentioned that 'Pet Sounds' is not really a Beach Boys album.....maybe....but howsaboot this? I contend that 'Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band' isn't REALLY a Beatles album....in fact, when they released it, EMI had to take out out ads to REMIND people that The Beatles made it....but they themselves pretended to be ANOTHER band or other bands making it.....well, they did for a FEW tracks but then said 'sod it, let's do tracks' (Ringo- Anthology quote) but that feeling prevades the whole albumnot to mention that they REALLY went to town with the guest musicians....from Western Classical to Eastern Classical and harpists and they even got Mike Leander in to arrange a track....no, NOT a Beatles record at all, if you ask me.....but a brilliant piece of work all the same.....and it DOES Rock! The title track and reprise seriously rock. Even 'Within You or Without You' rocks.......There is no competeing with The Beatles.....They themselves had to stop after 7 years at the top................probably 'cos at that point they realised The Band were better than them......

There was some question here aboot The Stones and The Band.......I really LOVE The Rolling Stones.....but I would HAVE to say that ALL The Rolling Stones, alive or dead, would bow down to The Majesty and The Rock'n'Roll Glory of The Band..........When The Band were 'on'....on record or on stage...they were simply the Greatest........paid the most dues and, above all, they had Levon singing and drumming......no band can match it.......

I'll have that cuppa tea now, there, young Bill..........

Posted on Thu Jul 26 22:00:50 CEST 2001 from dhcp21536.sunyocc.edu (198.242.215.36)

FROLIKIN FREDDIE (Fishermun) FUNK

Just Want To Wish That Old Rockster "the mickster" Mick Jaeger a very happy 58th Birthday. If anyone is stolling around the strip in Las Vegas tonite keep an eye out for Dr. Pepper. He will movin about town with his 15 year old son in tow (the kids abot 6'3". The doc, well, lets just say he has some girth.. Try to talk him into spendin some; his pockets have been known to be very high.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 21:38:14 CEST 2001 from as8-d53-sc-psci.psci.net (63.65.186.53)

Knockin' Lost John

Yes, indeed, Brian Wilson is a genius.

Anybody listen to his Imagination album from a few years back? It's a masterpiece.

There's a great song he wrote and performs with Jimmy Buffet called "South American":

Dig the line "I've been around too long to care what anybody says

I'm hungry and I'm doin' lunch with Cameron Diaz".

There's also a great collaborations with songwriter JD Souther (co-wrote alot of the Eagles tunes).

Great songwriting and production!

You ought to get it if u can.

Later,

john

Posted on Thu Jul 26 20:57:18 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

Please excuse my typing today. That's "tenuous", and earlier, "its". I know better than that!

Posted on Thu Jul 26 20:52:42 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

To complete a rather tenous Beach Boys-Band-Beatles connection, Blondie Chaplin's songwriting partner in the Beach Boys, Ricky Fataar, went on to play the role of Stig O'Hara in the Rutles.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 20:41:27 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

In my previous post, written spontaneously, I violated one of the key elements of the "who, what, WHEN & where" theory of journalism. The sinister series of events that I mentioned, in sequence, occurred between the years 1957-1959.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 20:17:37 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

FOREVER JUNG

In a two-year span of time, a series of seemingly unconnected events occurred which altered the course of the development of rock 'n roll in pop music. Little Richard, for the first time, left the world of music to pursue the ministry. Jerry Lee Lewis' career was derailed by scandal when the news of his marriage to his 13-year old cousin was revealed. Elvis was drafted and inducted into the army. (Many contend that Elvis was never the same after his service years. "Elvis died in the army...", John Lennon once said.) Chuck Berry was charged with violation of the Mann Act, transporting a young girl across state lines for the purpose of prostitution. From 1959 until 1963, his career was put on hold following his trial, appeal and prison sentence. Around this time, rumors of the practice known as "payola" (which would ruin the careers of Allen Freed and other disc jockeys who championed rock 'n roll) first became public knowledge. Finally, in the culminating event known as "the day the music died", Buddy Holley, Richie Valens and "The Big Bopper" were killed in a plane crash.

This series of events would create a great void in the world of rock 'n roll, just as the form of music was gaining momentum. It would seem that sinister forces had converged at this period of time, in an attempt to stop the spread of rock 'n roll from "corrupting" the youth of the world. Those who ascribe to the theories of Carl Jung might evoke the notion of "synchronicity", or "meaningful coincidences" linked in meaning through their occurrences in time. Whatever the explanation, a vacuum was created in pop music which "opened-up" the playing field, so to speak. It was against this backdrop that figures like Ronnie Hawkins and many others emerged to help fill that void and quench the growing thirst for raucus rock 'n roll among youths everywhere. On the roadhouse & club circuits they would blaze their trails, from Memphis to Toronto, from the Cavern Club to Germany, and beyond. And the road goes on forever.

On a final note -- I reminded this week, following the death of Eudora Welty, that when the '60s began, four giant figures from Mississippi dominated the world of the arts. Ms. Welty in the short story form, William Faulkner in the world of the novel, Tennessee Williams in drama & theatre, and Elvis, The King, in music. Don't call them "hillbillies" -- they were ARTISTS, supreme in their achievments in their various fields of endeavor.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 20:04:06 CEST 2001 from (157.142.169.45)

J. Patrick Crain

I have always been curious as to the Band's feelings towards the Rolling Stones. I know that Keith and Robbie get along now (due to the Chuck Berry film of which Robbie turned over to Keith when Chuck became too much for RR to handle) but I have never seen anything in which they state the Stones as influences. Just curious.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 18:53:01 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-178.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.178)

Peter Viney

Ilkka- sorry! Just read it. Two "ks". In recompense I won't tell the Colonel that you revealed our secret. My mistake. I dropped my hamburger on the cream doughnut, which knocked the bottle of diet pills all over the keyboard.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 18:45:30 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-109.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.109)

Peter Viney

Beach Boys & Band: The Beach Boys / Band link is Blondie Chaplin, who temporaily joined The Band after Richard’s death, and live versions of the post-Richard Band doing “Sail on Sailor” exist on tape.

In the 60s I was the only person I knew with any Beach Boys records (Surfin Safari & Surfin USA). When I got to university in 66, I had a total Beach Boys devotee living next door, and Pet Sounds became the soundtrack of the year – until we all got into Jimi Hendrix, Procul Harum and finally into Sergeant Pepper, which I think rocks more and is also a “better” album, though “better” is extemely relative when we’re talking about two members of most critics’ All-Time Top Ten albums. The three best-known tracks on Pet Sounds are masterpieces, but overall Sergeant Pepper has more in the category. Brian Wilson’s depression at the time of Sergeant Pepper indicates that he thought The Beatles had won whatever contest he imagined was going on. Steve’s theory that Pet sounds was a commercial mistake because it wasn’t rock is a good one, and I agree that it needs “active listening” just as he says. I’d contest that even “I Get Around” was a bit avant-garde for Mike Love, and that without Brian they’d have happily done Little Deuce Coupe and 409 till the cows came home. In the sequence, isn’t Pet Sounds truly a response to Revolver, with Sergeant Pepper coming later? Actually, the real competitor with Sergeant Pepper was the aborted Smile, with Good Vibrations and Heroes and Villains, and quite a few people have bootlegged it into a kind of quasi-existence, right down to the cover art. You can make up your own version if you have enough later albums and rarities sets. But every version will be unpolished with chunks missing, and the exact track listing and running order will be debatable, though the knowledge of the guys who put together the boot I have (with cover art) makes it come pretty close. There is a tendency for these Beach Boys boots to include lovingly long versions of (e.g.) Heroes & Villains just because they exist. Imagine doing the same thing with Big Pink if it had been lost and you were trying to reconstruct it. Imagine that there were a couple of discarded verses of ‘The Weight.’ The inclination would be to include them, ignoring the fact that at some point they’d been edited out on the surviving single. It’s like the full version of “Loaded” by the VU. The “full length” versions of Sweet Jane and Rock & Roll prove beyond doubt that the record label + the rest of The VU were right to edit, and Lou Reed was wrong. In the end “Pet Sounds” might be over-rated because “Smile” doesn’t exist and Brian Wilson deserves some sort of huge accolade for his total output at the time.

Illka. You were sworn to secrecy on this, sir. I’ll have to speak to the Colonel.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 18:35:55 CEST 2001 from raindel.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.249)

Ann

ahhh...but where would Chuck Berry be without Johnnie Johnson!

Posted on Thu Jul 26 18:11:35 CEST 2001 from du66-249.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.249.66)

Ilkka, with 1 "l" and 2 "k"

To Dave Z and Lil: Illka with 2 "l" and 1 "k" is a female name. Ilkka with 1 "l" and two "k" is a male name. I was harrassed in the school because of this. After 40 years it is the same thing in the Internet AGAIN! You have ruined a psychoanalysis worth 38.000 US dollars¨. My lawyers will contact you... you, you Daviella and Lilius.

Peter Viney is Elvis.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 17:46:38 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Steve: I don't know what else is on "Pet Sounds", but I'd rather have the three great songs that you mention than anything on "Sergeant Pepper" - where the lovely bass line on LSD would rate as the highlight, in my mind. And I think Joe Cocker's "Help From My Friends" buries the original - and any other version I can think of.

I believe Band and Beatle guys played on stage together, and Band and Beach Boy guys (if auxilliary), but were all three groups ever represented together?

Posted on Thu Jul 26 17:22:52 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

John D: The big difference, to me, between "Pet Sounds" and "Sgt Pepper" is that the latter takes into account the key issue of accessibility.

"Pet Sounds" is lush and pleasant to listen to, but only a few of the melodies have "hooks." (And those are the songs known and loved by all - "God Only Knows", "Wouldn't It Be Nice", "Sloop John B" - you ever sing "Sloop John D" to amuse yourself?). The rest requires "active" listening to appreciate everything. "Sgt Pepper," on the other hand, doesn't require the listener to "pay attention" (although he or she is rewarded for doing so). The songs that are a little outside the normal pop formula do so in the arrangements, but leave in a healthy dose of Beatle melody to keep you hanging in there. "When I'm Sixty-Four" is quite a singalong, even if you're not a huge fan of the bass clarinet. Same with "Lucy in the Sky" despite the psychedelic organ sounds (I've heard it played on the mandolin!) Even "A Day in the Life" has a very hummable melody, despite the off-putting lyrics. Only exception is "Within You Without You" which doesn't particularly reward close inspection, either.n\ Not to mention, there's enough rock to keep the Mersey Beat fans in line. Hendrix even covered "Sgt Pepper" (title track) and of course Joe Cocker famously slaughtered "A Little Help from My Friends." (As one critic put it, "Joe Cocker seems to remove the hooks from otherwise useful melodies.")

I'm not sure it's a matter of calculation here; it's probably that the Beatles were so naturally tuneful that even at their farthest out they couldn't help writing terrific songs. (Even "Revolution 9" has it's catchy bits: "Number 9, number 9" -- "Block that kick, block that kick" -- "Eldorado; the twist")

Posted on Thu Jul 26 17:20:13 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Hank, PE revolutionized rap and along with Boogie Down Productions, raised its social consciousness to unprecedented levels (and with the subsequent dominance of "gansta" rap, really hasn't been matched). There are those that have described Chuck D as the "Bob Dylan of rap," and as Pat mentioned Terminator X's DJ-ing (and the production of "Da Bomb Squad") almost single-handedly changed the complexity and sophistication of the sampling and polyrhythms of the style.

Beyond his musical ability, Chuck D is a very vocal advocate of Napster and the populist view of music and music distribution, taking on other rappers like Dr. Dre and Snoop in a very public way. He doesn't just talk about it, though, he works very hard at developing new concepts in artist/audience interaction via the internet. He's articulate (even if some of his ideas about racial seperation bother me), and on the topic of the music industry, the guy is a visionary.

In short, people will be talking about PE on websites (or whatever comes) well into this century. It's funny, though, how many people assume rap is some sort of passing fad. It's been THE dominant musical form among African Americans for nearly 25 years, and for the last 15 has been the best-selling "crossover" music in world. It's power is pervasive, and it ain't going nowhere. In 50 years, people will be talking about its pioneers with the same reverence that we speak of the artists of the 50s and 60s.

I don't know about Living Colour. I love them and all, but in the end I don't know if they had the longevity necessary to garner that kind of fan base (plus, they only had one real hit). However, Hank, I guarantee you that people will be talking about Vernon Reid the guitarist for a VERY VERY long time. Vernon is one of the absolutely great guitartists of all time, period (and I don't just mean his chops).

But let me help put your kids listening to Elvis idea in some context. I'm 35 years old. I was 18 in 1984. Elvis was as dated to me as, say, The Band would be to an 18 year old today. That means that Elvis is as dated to an 18 year old today, as AL JOLSON is to you and me.

How many of your friends listen to Al Jolson? How about Rudi Valli? Bing Crosby?

Forget Perry Como, to kids today, Elvis isn't just old, he's ANCIENT. Now, when I was in high school, I listened almost exclusively to 40s and 50s jazz - but I was a freak, and I have the scars to prove it.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 16:53:02 CEST 2001 from garco.cpe.newsouth.net (64.90.4.86)

Mike Carrico

Hank & Cupid have got it right; Chuck Berry is the King of Rock n Roll...he wrote the book on r&r songwriting and guitar playing, and maybe the outlaw road lifestyle as well. Someone else would have led us all to The Promised Land eventually, but he scratched the name in sand and pointed us the way to go.

As Jerry Lee Lewis' own mama told him, "Son, your music is okay, but you ain't no Chuck Berry!"

Posted on Thu Jul 26 16:44:05 CEST 2001 from pool-63.49.28.229.mmph.grid.net (63.49.28.229)

Dexy

1) Breeze Hill is sending the CD... 2) Yesterday, at his tour kick-off press conference, Ringo said he saw George three weeks ago, and he seemed fine, although "recovering." Blamed the hysteria on the media, but didn't really say anything definitive. 3) A wire story on Mr. Mahal -- Town May Name Street for Taj Mahal SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (AP) -- Henry Fredericks made it big in the music business after he left Springfield and changed his name to Taj Mahal. Now the city is considering renaming the street where he grew up after the 59-year-old two-time Grammy winner and blues legend. City Councilor Bud Williams says he will ask councilors to vote on changing the name of Monroe Street to Taj Mahal Street next month. ''He's truly honored,'' said Osborne Williams of Springfield, the musician's younger brother. Williams, no relation to the city councilor, said he had recently spoken to Taj Mahal, who is touring in Europe, and told him of the city's plans. Osborne Williams said the family moved to Springfield in 1942 when Taj Mahal was an infant and lived on Monroe Street until he was 12 years old. After the death of his father in 1954, his mother remarried and the family moved to Marion Street in Springfield.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 16:27:52 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Lil: Laisez les bon temps roulez (I think).

Father Hank: Will you have another cup of tea?

Posted on Thu Jul 26 15:01:16 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

TO STEVE KNOWLOTON:

I quite enjoyed your thoughts on Pet Sounds. Although I still think Pet Sounds to be more than a sophisticated Carpenters records, I do agree with you about the fact that it was not a Rock and Roll Record. My question is....Sgt Pepper to me was never a Rock and Roll record. How would you explain the on going success of the Beatles after that record vs The Beach Boys analogy. That's of course saying that you agree with me on the Sgt. Pepper thoughts. Again, a really good post on Pet Sounds. I also, by the way felt that about "Holland." The Beach Boys were trying so hard to "grow" but I always felt that the fans would not let them. I think this hit Brian and Carl hardest. Mike Love would be happy to sing "I Get Around" forever I believe. Cheers.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 14:31:00 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

Tommy: I think the reason you (and lots of other Beach Boys fans) never got into "Pet Sounds" is that it's not really a Beach Boys album. The Beach Boys were about harmony plus rockin' beats. It's a big stretch from "I Get Around" to "Don't Talk, Put Your Head on My Shoulder" and most of us don't want to make it.

Even early BB ballads were still rooted in the old doo-wop formulas, but "Pet Sounds" really departs into more Bacharach-style compositions. I like to think of it as a very sophisticated Carpenters record. So, I think Mike Love and the others were right to be worried. In a sense, "Pet Sounds" killed their career just when a different type of album (with more songs like "Good Vibrations") would have had them competing with Beatles, Hendrix, etc. for the affections of the rock 'n roll youth seeking to expand their minds. There's just no rock 'n roll on "Pet Sounds."

Posted on Thu Jul 26 13:33:11 CEST 2001 from dialup-364.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.108)

Hank

Hmmmmmnn....all kindsa interesting posts....Well, all I can say is....I wonder what Public Enemy and Vernon Reid will be good for in 2051?........d'y'reckon folks will be on super-dooper GBs discussing their merits like we are now about Elvis or Chuck?.......Maybe they will....although, at least Elvis or Chuck never recorded a song called 'Perry Como Bites Me' or 'Bing Crosby is a Shit-Eating Mutha Fucka'. In fact, Elvis and ALL the 50ies rockers had tremendous respect for those who went before them. Here's a question: Why don't Public Enemy and Vernon Reid attack Jimi Hendrix?.......now, THERE'S a black man who COMPLETELY sold out, right?.......He left America, had a White Manager, White Sidemen, White Audiences......The reason they would'nt attack Elvis is because they WOULD'NT DARE!!!!!!!..........There is arguably as much myth around Jimi as there is around Elvis....but none of those guys would even THINK of attacking Jimi.........Is Jimi a museum piece?.......I think not......his music is everywhere, all at once.......just like Elvis, somewhere today there are 16-17 year olds tuning into Jimi for the first time and being blown away.....rightly so....Jimi was outta this world amazing!! now, don't get me wrong, folks, I don't want to appear completely retro....there are plenty contemporay artists who I think are cool....but unfortunately, the modern music industry kills 'em off quick like Kurt Cobain or Jeff Buckley or marginalises them, like Prince......

OK.....that's my two cents today.....I just got up.....my wife sez I must make coffee for her....I would go on here but she's obviously got them 'Java Blues' ...........

Posted on Thu Jul 26 13:03:47 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp82.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.82)

Diamond Lil

Cupid: Congratulations! I know this has been a long time coming, and I'm really proud of you. Does this mean that one day we'll all be posting on the Cupid website? :-)

DaveZ: Loved your last post. Nice morning smile. Our Illka sure gets around, hm? Oprah.. who knew? :-)

Pitter patter of children's feet coming down the stairs here. So much for serenity. Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 10:26:37 CEST 2001 from ts1-27.steveston.axion.net (207.34.146.27)

Cupid

Hi All

So once again our Lil is the recipient of nasty e-mail. Donna your right about how much courage it takes to sit behind a computer and fire off threats. Some peoples children huh...

Well I guess the big news [WARNING SHAMELESS PLUG AHEAD] is that Garth isn't the only guy around here with new CD to plug. If any of you are interested in a copy e-mail me and I'll give you the details. It's called "Tryst" and I wrote all the songs and blah blah blah...end of shameless plug...

I've always been of the opinion that Chuck Berry was the King of Rock'n'Roll and that Elvis was a Johnny come lately. As good as some of Elvis' early work is it's tarnished by the skull duggery that surrounds it [stolen credits etc]....Peace Cupid

Posted on Thu Jul 26 09:38:05 CEST 2001 from 66-44-113-53.s307.tnt8.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (66.44.113.53)

Joe McKenna

For quite sometime now I've been reading tons and tons of "brief historys" of the Band and have found no real truth. Their seems to be no real detailed history on the band. Don't get me wrong I'm not in search of "the dirt" on the band, I'm just looking for "the real" Band history. The breakup has always been a subject I've been looking for some truth on. I can count about twenty different versions and tales as to why they parted ways. I was thinking about going out and purchasing Levon Helms book but I'm not sure if it will have anything I haven't already read in it. Has anyone here already read "This Wheels on Fire"? Is it worth reading? Will it answer my questions? Are there any other good band reading materials I should check out?

" Being an advid band fan for the past five or six years I've tried learning what I could on them. I find each one of them fascinating. Their music had a way of speaking to you as if it was a story. My brother and I who are also muscians have been covering Band songs for quite sometime now. Other muscians at my school just never saw the music we played by the Band the same as my brother and I did. We would always get "that music sounds like something our parents would listen to". I just never saw it as that. I feel the Bands music is timeless and should be treated as a masterpiece. Listening to the music in itself and then studying the notes chords and arrangements is another thing. You really start to appreciate it more when you see the work it took compose and lay it down.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 09:12:15 CEST 2001 from roc-24-95-208-75.rochester.rr.com (24.95.208.75)

Dave Hopkins

The "Elvis became the King by stealing black music" story is conventional wisdom to many, especially (in my experience) to African-Americans. As with all such pat summaries of history, there is a nugget of truth amid a great deal of oversimplification. I agree wholeheartedly with Pat Brennan's comments. To many in my generation, Elvis is virtually synonymous with Perry Como, say, or Bing Crosby...despite the fact that Elvis and his fans were rebelling against that kind of music, at least in the '50s before Col. Parker and the schmaltz brigade took over. Elvis was once the coolest guy in the whole world, but many of those too young to remember him on Ed Sullivan -- or, like me, too young to remember him *alive* -- see him as a corny hillbilly. For whatever reason, he has not retained the cultural cachet among my peers that many musicians from the '60s seem to enjoy -- such as the Beatles (especially Lennon), the Stones, Dylan, the Doors, CCR, Joplin, Neil Young, Clapton, Hendrix, the Velvet Underground, etc. There must have been five separate copies of "Creedence's 20 Greatest Hits" on the hallway in my freshman dorm at college, but nobody had the "Sun Sessions"! (I have respect for Public Enemy -- can't say I'm much of a fan -- but in this context it ain't exactly an act of courage or originality to take on The Myth of Elvis, since PE's audience of young blacks and whites is quite unlikely to have placed Presley on a pedestal in the first place.)

So Elvis is an easier target to begin with -- as Pat says, he's a cultural icon or myth rather than a person or artist to younger generations. And, for many African-Americans, he has become rightly or wrongly a symbol not only of racism or oppression, but of cultural appropriation and systematic exploitation of blacks by whites, by supposedly taking "our" music and achieving fame and fortune selling it to racists who wouldn't have accepted it from a black musician. In this context, then, if there were not evidence of Presley's personal contempt for African-Americans, it would be necessary to invent it -- hence the quote Matt mentioned, complete with "n" word, which is of dubious authenticity but taken as truth by those who wish to believe.

The idea that a network TV program would require a singer to be filmed from the waist up in order to prevent its viewers from taking offense at the gyrations underneath is so alien to our current culture that many in my generation perceive that event as historically quaint but of a long-gone era, akin to quilting bees or stovepipe hats. Forever trapped in a world today's young people can scarcely imagine, Elvis lives on only in the history books. Washington chopped down the cherry tree, Lincoln freed the slaves, and Presley shook his hips. Um, and...didn't he, like, you know, shoot his TV or something?

Posted on Thu Jul 26 08:48:02 CEST 2001 from dialin-91-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.1.91)

Gene

Sorry, but I feel that EVERYONE should be able to feel proud of who they are, (even if they are poor, white Southerners) without feeling shame from some ugly label. And I don't think liking Elvis is bad or rascist, necessarily, either. However, Jimmy might be right about "In Watermelon Sugar".

Posted on Thu Jul 26 08:27:49 CEST 2001 from dialin-60-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.1.60)

Gene

Just a thought...why is it fine to slam Southerners as 'hillbilly' or 'red-neck', when it is clearly stereotypical and derogatory? Isn't it just as bad as refering to 'wet-back' or 'redskin' or 'coon', 'yid', etc. Any ideas?

Posted on Thu Jul 26 07:27:58 CEST 2001 from nas-202-214.rochester.navipath.net (64.20.202.214)

Lizagain

Phil Lesh from the Grateful Dead is out there playing on tour, and I hear he did Acadian??? Driftwood??? at 'Darien Lake' ( Near Buffalo) last night ??? Please- pause for response......... Miss and love youzzz guyzzz ! : ) Love and Kisses Lizzz

Posted on Thu Jul 26 07:13:34 CEST 2001 from spider-tm072.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.77)

Dave Z

Been gone two days... just catchin' up... Hey, Delilah... I'm pretty good lookin'... err I mean, Tommy you should... anyway, I know people... in fact this guy... who writes for the Yazoo Street Scandal... out of Lome or Togo, Canada... or something... yeah, that's the group... they woulda covered the George Harrison story too... but they were too busy listening to Garth's new CD... and they gave me a scoop on tomorrow's headline... it has to do with a review of Garth's CD by Dr. Phil... yeah, the guy on Oprah... well, it's not really a review... more like some advance excerpts from next week's Oprah Show... and I think I figured out Ricahrd Wall's backwards lyric quiz... I hear a lot of harpo harpo harpo... which is, well... Oprah!!!! Garth must be getting a fortune for that... anyway, here's the excerpts I think I kinda remembered... I was listening to "Sea" at the time...

Dr. Phil: Mr. Illka... if that is in fact your real name... please continue...

Mr. I: Well, it's my wife... she doesn't listen to me... she actually tunes me out...

Dr. Phil: Is your wife here?

Mr. I: Yes.

Dr. Phil: Missus I... Is that true?... I suppose he is just ramblin' on about his banjo... and after a while you just wander... and start watching QVC?... Is that about it?

Mrs. I: Well, actually I got this new CD "The Sea To The North"...

Dr. Phil: OK, I think I understand now... Illka, son... do you know that when you interrupt your wife's listening pleasure... you are sending a message... that you don't respect how she feeeels!?!?

Mr. I: But Dr. Phil... I don't understand "The Breakers"...

Dr. Phil: Well son, what it is saying first off is that you need to take a load off of fanny... and then kick back on the beach so to speak... and listen to the waves roll in...

Mr. I: But I just want to talk to her about my banjo playing... and she sure has balls... to think she can just tune me out...

Dr. Phil: Well of course she has Bauls...they just bubble up... have you not listened to track 2... and son, it's obvious the banjo don't just cut it anymore... you need synthesizer... and plenty of sax... with a nice tone...

Dr. Phil: Mrs. I, do you have anything to add?

Mrs. I: I got so mad during the "Third Order"... I just wanted to give him the third degree...

Dr. Phil: I know Mrs. I... all that men really want is sax... but we need to put that sax in the back room for now... cause that's one hell of a drum beat... that needs to conclude... timing Mr. I... slow things down and just listen to the beat... they'll be plenty of sax for you later on... and accordian too if your into that sorta thing...

Dr. Phil: Anything else Mrs. I?

Mrs. I: Yes Dr. Phil... Can I get my CD back?

Dr. Phil: Not a chance... What was that you had to say Mr. I?

Mr. I: And she still lives with her parents!!!

Dr. Phil: Son, that's what we call... a deal breaker... You need to get her a new stereo of her own... so your wife can listen to something other than banjo... that's just cruel... I recommend Sony... or DVD...

Mr. I: BVD?... Did she also tell you about my little problem?

Dr. Phil: Son, I read the whole email... and that's DVD... If you want to discuss explosions... I suggest you listen to track 1... that's real drumming...

Oprah (finally): Dr. Phil, can you tell us what the lyrics on track 1 mean?... I think I hear "I feel the power"?... and that sister's got it going on...

Dr. Phil: Of course you do... we all feel the power...

Mr. I (Interrupts with talking... psst): And she won't listen when I try to play the Neil Young vocal versions... of Neil Young songs from the Buffalo Springfield Box Set... that Richie originally sung...

Dr. Phil: Blah Blah Blah... Son, there's a whole 'nother program to deal with feuds... you need to listen to the music...

Dr. Phil: In conclusion... here's what I think... Son, you need professional help... Sony, DVD, and... you also need a guru... yes, the Gurus in fact... some much needed guitar help for what ails ya...

Oprah: And we have a Mr. Z on the phone... Go on please...

Z: First off I want to say... Jan Hoiberg is GOD!!!! and then... Go get 'em "Travelin' Gals"!!! Turn some heads in the Poconos while you watch the barn burn down... but don't lose your sandals!!!

Dr. Phil: Son, you need to get a job.

Oprah: And the rest of you need to get "The Sea To The North"... Goodnight everybody... No threatening emails...

Posted on Thu Jul 26 07:11:12 CEST 2001 from (64.20.206.236)

Liz

Now this is gettin strange, remember the 'Desert Island Queries'? I chose 'Pet Sounds'for my Desert Island album ...[Beach Boys/ Brain ] for those of us in the U.S. - believe it or not Brian Wilson is on The Conan O'Brien show I think its NBC TV) tonight, right now EST (a reapeat ) in a few minutes !!! mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmoi Les et Les Bons temps Rouleux or how ever you spell it........: ) Liz

Posted on Thu Jul 26 06:40:24 CEST 2001 from (64.20.206.236)

Liz

It almost seems as if It is my job, to yell at you guys, you should all have contracts writing for Rolling Stone etc...I have respect sorry to interrupt, BUT

Phil Lesh from the Grateful Dead is out there playing on tour, and I hear he did Acadian??? Please pause for response......... Miss and love youzzz guyzzz ! : ) Love and Kisses Lizzz

Posted on Thu Jul 26 06:39:29 CEST 2001 from spider-wk083.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.188)

Tommy

I've been listening to Pet Sounds all day.I never got into that album, really(besides 'God Only Knows')I don't know why...but seeing Brian Wilson last night has given me a real appreciation,so I gave Pet Sounds a proper listen and have been hooked all day!I shoulda taken McCartney's advice years ago, I guess.

Hank,,,'Eddie Murphy;Delirious' is one of my all time favorite pieces of comedy (beit the album or movie).I've been listening to that since I was about 9,and know every damn word.Great stuff.Hysterical!Eddie Murphy and George Carlin are my two favorite stand up comedians.I wish Eddie still did that stuff, cause this Dr.Dolittle crap is a disgrace!

Posted on Thu Jul 26 06:32:24 CEST 2001 from (64.20.206.236)

the real Liz

Did any one hear 'Phil Lesh and Friends' do 'Acadaian Driftwood' last night, in Canandaigua NY at FLPAC? ? sorry Ive been so sparse, but I am sparse..love you all, Liz Id love to hear about it.......

Posted on Thu Jul 26 05:44:52 CEST 2001 from st-catherines-ppp112557.sympatico.ca (216.209.140.186)

Richard Patterson

HANK: The much dissed Dave Marsh actually had a few interesting words to say on this very subject...

'The "shoe shine" fable [see Mattk’s previous post] is held as gospel by some of the finest contemporary black musicians, including Vernon Reid of Living Colour and Public Enemy’s Chuck D… It’s a significant symbolic switch, from James Brown, the most revered soul musician, who boasted of his personal closeness to Elvis, to Chuck D, the most respected leader of the hip-hop movement, who disdains any worth Elvis might possess at all. Part of it has to do with the depths of racism to which America has once again descended and the genuine need for black artists to create and sustain a separatist cultural mythology. Elvis was a figure of integration and that figure must now be destroyed or at least diminished… On a symbolic scale, this claim that Elvis was nothing but a Klansman in blue suede shoes may be the greatest Elvis-related tragedy of all. For if Elvis was the sort of indispensable cultural pioneer who made the only kind of map we can trust, what does it mean when pioneers of a later generation have to willfully torch that map'. -Marsh 1992.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 05:10:44 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.71.186.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.71.186)

Pat Brennan

Hank, I believe to most young listeners today, Elvis, Chuck Berry and Little Richard (among others) are kind of like museum pieces. Well, actually in Cleveland they are museum pieces. Anyway, they have little direct connection to what the vast majority of the world's youth are listening to today, and let's face it: why should they? Each generation redefines taste and deconstructs previous generation's myths (poorly so, as per my previous post), and as electronics continue to pervade our lives, making music now is less about playing a guitar and more about manipulating information. Certainly we all salute those who soldier on perfecting their craft, but not many kids are listening to it. We know for better or worse that rap outsells rock, and a large portion of rock is now electronic based. Even the guitar based stuff is a world away from Elvis et al, if there's a connection at all. I think, as a result, that Elvis exists in the public eye only as a myth, just as Chuck Berry is an eccentric and Little Richard is a TV character. Their contributions to music are now like the Pasteur's contribution to medicine: crucial for the historians but of little interest to the rest.

An even better analogy is the weird place present sports stars put the former stars. Probably 90% of baseball players have no idea who is in their own Hall of Fame. It means nothing to them in a day-to-day sense, so why should they care? In one respect they're right; knowing that Ernie Banks hit over 500 home runs doesn't make Jason Giambi a better hitter. But we know studying Banks's swing could help Giambi generate more power--if that's possible. It's sad, but it's the way of the world.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 04:51:03 CEST 2001 from (146.178.26.8)

Michael

Tommy, Gotta agree with you on Brian Wilson, the guy is amazing, saw a doco a few years back on Brian, lots of interviews but finished with Brian singing "Do It Again" with his daughters, not sure who the muso's were, but they were very good, my main memory watching this was the smile & obvious good time Jim Keltner was having as he played with Brian. Regards

Posted on Thu Jul 26 04:24:43 CEST 2001 from dialup-087.cork.iol.ie (194.125.43.87)

HANK

I really don't think it is understandable that someone should want to blow up 'The Myh' of Elvis.......if he's cool with Chuck and Little Richard and all......then everyone should know this...including Public Enemy and Vernon Reid...I mean I UNDERSTAND why they're doing it.....all I'm doing, really, is questioning it.....and it's very cool to drop by here and getting some answers......BTW, everyone knows, at this stage, that Chuck Berry is the KING of Rock'n'Roll........Elvis woulda told you that, too.....Little Richard might disagree........and having said all that, I think Eddie Murhys assessment of Elvis in the movie 'Delirious' is more informed and honest and true about Elvis........Eddies got it right...........'Father Ted' ( British/Irish comedy about 3 inept RC priests living off the coast of Ireland) did a great skit on The Three Ages of Elvis which is toooo long to explain but I KNOW you Brits and Paddies wot might be tuning into here are aware of....hilarious! I don't mind people poking fun at the myth, so to speak, because the myth does nothing....the MAN did it, and, in his own way, he's STILL doin' it....rest assured there's a buncha 16-17 years(Black, White,Yeller, Red- Green and Blue) out there listening to shite radio and watchin' MTV and all of a sudden discovering Elvis and sayin', just like kids in the '50ies, 'Good LORD!! THIS is the Shit!'

I met Tommy and L'il in NYC not so long ago....and everyone seemed very cool....it was one of the pleasures of my life to be able to meet these people via diggin' The Band.......hope y'all are well.......Sounds like a great gig Tommy.......I just want to state publicly that I'm with PETER VINEY on 'You're The One"....it mighty!.......

Posted on Thu Jul 26 02:23:48 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

IF there is a God in charge,
hope he is a little like Garth.

Posted on Thu Jul 26 02:23:06 CEST 2001 from spider-wn071.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.181)

JTULL fan

Glad I read Peter's post before saying Elvis never took song credits he didn't deserve. However, I still wish to defend the guy. He was an ENTERTAINER. He made people HAPPY while inspiring others to get into music. Sure , Fats Domino, Little Richard et al deserve more credit, but so do many, MANY under and unnappreciated artists. Were Elvis never born I doubt they would have gotten any more attention, and I am sure none of them wishes to trade places with Elvis, even with his fresh flowers delivered daily. (I know, I visited him at Graceland last year, and have to admit it was a great experience) If we want to point fingers at people or groups, what about all the riffs Led Zepplin and the Stones lifted (saw Living Colour open for them in '89)? Sure, the poor King became a self-parody in life and death, but he did some great, great music, even later on. You cannot listen to the Band's Mystery Train without listening to the King's for deeper appreciation, or how a bout A Fool Such As I, then listen to Dylan on The Genuine Basement Tapes. So, now I am going to get 5 or 6 burgers, some fries, meatloaf, and a milkshake. Thank-you for listening, thank-you. Thank-you very much...

Posted on Thu Jul 26 01:34:09 CEST 2001 from modem114.phl-tc03b.fcc.net (63.121.117.201)

bassmanlee

I'm so ashamed. I knew it was "Living Colour" with a "u", but for some strange reason, maybe reading a chunk of Brit Lit as a kid (not for school..horrors...just for fun...Aldous Huxley for the most part) I have always tended towards colour and labour, or even Labour (maybe it was the Bonzo Dog Band records) to the point where I got red marks on my English comps..."What are you, British?" (it's happened! I swear it! red pencil in the margins! Like, what if I was?). So I self-censored and went back and deleted the U. Duh. BTW, Vernon Reid's previously mentioned "Mistaken Identity" is quite good, but, well, interesting, and not for everyone.

In another genre altogether, just finished listening to a new release "Del and the Boys" by the Del McCoury Band, a fabulous Bluegrass band. Del has been around so long he has two sons in the band. And they ain't kids neither! WOW! Hot Stuff! First 2 tracks: Richard Thompsons's "1952 Vincent Black Lightning" and "Learning The Blues"...yes, it's the Sinatra song, but it wasn't until I read the lyrics without hearing it that I realised. Great disk!

Peter, thanks for the run-down on the British press. Always amazing that a nation so relatively small compared to this mess over here can produce so much literature, music, film, etc., and a plethora of competing newspapers, while we suffer mediocrity and sameness from such a large and populous land. My local paper is owned by Gannet (who bring us the USlessA TOaDY) and HAS no local music or film critic, just a regurgitation of last weeks national columns and wire service rip-and-prints. And a weekly "technology update" section that might as well have "PAID ADVERT" printed over the top. Free press my ass...

Lil, BobW... thanks.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 23:45:52 CEST 2001 from raindel.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.249)

Ann

I saw Elvis working at a Chinese restaurant in Baraboo, Wisconsin...home of the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Clown College...honest!

Posted on Wed Jul 25 23:28:17 CEST 2001 from spider-tm031.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.56)

Tommy

Donna and Lil,,,,I'm very glad you guys(gals,sorry) don't think I would do something as shitty, and as ridiculous, as send threatening emails to ANYONE, regardless if we disagree or not.We're here to disagree, that's what makes for good discussion, no?I have no qualms with someone disagreeing with me.I DO have qualms with being accused ,albeit slyly,with doing things I haven't done.....But Knockin' Lost John has since apologised, and I hold no grudge.I'm glad we're all friends again.Except the few times when I'm drunk and leave a silly post (even those are about music sometimes),I'm here to talk about music ....and on that note....

Peter V...Paul Simon did do the 'Diamonds..'/'Call Me Al' medley last night,and it was a treat...especially the segueing drum/percussion solo wherein the band members came center stage and did a little syncopated dance routine.Very funny, indeed.I just might get that 'You're The One' DVD after all.

And speaking of DVDs, there's a new one out of Paul McCartmey's 1999 show from The Cavern Club.I've yet to see it in stores, but I know it's available.I saw some advertisements for it.Spend , spend, spend!!!

Speaking of spending,I also just won an eBay auction for a very cool Traveling Wilbury's promotional retail poster from 1988.Perfect condition.Anyone wanna see it?Email me...!

Posted on Wed Jul 25 23:16:06 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-101.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.101)

Peter Viney

BTW, anyone seen Elvis recently? I heard he had cosmetic surgery and a skin-coloration job and is now a wealthy rap artist working out of LA. Either that, or he's living on an island off Scotland, horribly disfigured following an unreported nuclear accident.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 22:41:14 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp112.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.112)

Diamond Lil

I'm sorry if people got upset by my post this morning. I am not accusing anyone.. it's just that the name signed to these mails makes it pretty obvious that they've come from someone familiar with this site. The difference of opinion between Tommy and I has been resolved privately, and the first of the 2 threatening mails I received arrived prior to those posts. So again..I am not accusing anyone.. I just want it to stop. Thank You.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 22:32:10 CEST 2001 from spider-tf054.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.199)

Donna

KLJ: Great last post in regards to Diamond Lil. Lil, has been through the ringer in here, and I find it very sad! I take pity on anyone who feels so brave to e-mail threats to her, while sitting brave behind an computer. This is nothing but a cowardly act! I regard Diamond Lil as a good friend of mine, and whether I agree or not, with her opinions or views, I hold Lil, with the utmost respect for them! Tommy: I have e-mailed you in the past and I never thought for a minute that it was you who e-mailed Lil. I only hope that Lil, through her network carrier, will be able to find out who sent these, and the proper authorities, will be notified! I am sorry for feeling so adament about this, but I just feel that enough is enough!

On a lighter note: MattK: Is that a promise? :O)

Lastly! Dave The Drummer: Thank you very much on the info on Wishbone Ash. I will go research that site.

Have a Great Night Everyone!

Posted on Wed Jul 25 21:26:07 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-136.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.136)

Peter Viney

Tommy – seek out the “You’re The One” DVD which should document the concert you saw. I’d doubt he’s changed his band or set list much since the European tour last autumn. There’s a point where “Diamonds On The soles of Her Shoes” goes into “You Can Call Me Al” that brings everyone to their feet. I believe Paul Simon has a live band without peer, and my further opinion is that’s because he’s prepared to pay for Steve Gadd etc. Wish Van, Bob and the rest weren’t too mean (=tight-fisted) to do the same. I’ve also been listening to “Live at the Roxy” a lot recently (great band) and have to say a Brian Wilson / Paul Simon concert would be my dream!

Elvis never stinted on musicians either. Read both Guralnik biographies and I more and more appreciate what Elvis did. As for the song writing rip-offs of African-American artists, Ronnie Hawkins (and even on ‘You Cheated You Lied’ – Levon Helm) followed the same tradition. I believe that management rather than artists were behind it. In Elvis’s case, it’s the reason he ended up recording so much crap between 1960 and 1967. You either co-credited Elvis or didn’t get it recorded. There was no colour barrier to this particular scam, and I believe Jerry Reed (Guitar Man, U.S. Male) deserves great credit for being just about the first to stand his ground against the Colonel. And when Elvis realized he wasn’t going to get away with it on good material, we at last started to get good songs again. The Colonel was “colour-blind” when his money sensors were twitching. Any writer was equally vulnerable. BTW, any one picked up the new Elvis live box set yet? Some good reviews.

“A Nod to Bob” – The Guy Davis version of “A Sweetheart Like You” with Levon is great. “Clothes Line saga” is wonderful. Why did this various artists set get such poor reviews? I’m enjoying it.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 21:25:23 CEST 2001 from as6-d144-sc-psci.psci.net (63.65.188.144)

KLJ

Bythe way...

What the heck is "In Watermelon Sugar?"

Posted on Wed Jul 25 21:23:08 CEST 2001 from as6-d144-sc-psci.psci.net (63.65.188.144)

Knockin' Lost John

okay Tommy

You're right, and I do apologize for my last post. It's just that Lil had her fair share of crap a couple of years ago just after Danko died. I'm not sure of all the details but it upset her pretty bad.

Maybe I jumped to conclusions, and I know sometimes putting 2 and 2 together doesn't always add up. If you say you didn't email anything bad to Lil I'll take your word for it.

It's true you have been a welcome visitor here in the GB, and we have emailed each other before about Band-music-related stuff.

In retro, I was just upset that ANYBODY would be messing with Lil again, even though I do not know her persoanlly, nor have I been designated Lil's personal GB bodygaurd.

I'm only human, and I've been outa line before and probably will again, but I do apologize.

Peace

John

Posted on Wed Jul 25 21:16:57 CEST 2001 from user-33qt8cb.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.161.139)

Pat Brennan

I've always found it amusingly ironic that in a song decrying lemming-like acceptance of the company line, Chuck D does little more than regurgitate the company line about Elvis. Of course, when you have so much to say and succeed in saying so much, you're probably going to say some pretty stupid things. There's "the G who killed me" and the Jews running the world and all those nasty bitches....

That said, Terminator X is the real star of that show.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 21:14:11 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Last one today, promise.

Check out the "Web Page" link above. Turns out the SirCam worm made it onto some FBI computers and sent out some sensitive documents. Ironically, the computers in question were part of an FBI collaboration with private companies to beef up security to protect...sensitive documents.

Your tax dollars at work (ok, just some of us...)

Posted on Wed Jul 25 21:09:34 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Quick note: Hank, again, PE and Vernon were not criticizing the man so much as the icon. There are an incredible number of people that honestly believe Elvis "invented" rock and roll. This isn't recent. My mother was 18 when Elvis hit, and she had been a long time listener to R/B pioneers while attending High School in LA. She really hates Elvis, mostly because, as she put it, too many of her stupid friends seemed to believe he actually invented something - as if all that honking and rocking on Central Avenue never happened.

Elvis may not be responsible for the misconception, but the misconception is pervasive. As an icon, Elvis can no longer be viewed as simply a person or a performer. His image carries incredible weight, and it's perfectly understandable why a young black musician (or any musician) may wish to "blow up" the myth.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 21:02:07 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Bill, I was talking in general terms, not specific to Presley, I apologize for lacking clarity.

I think the main point I'm making is I don't really think the purpose of Chuck D's quote was to indict Elvis the man, necessarily. More Elvis the icon. It's understandable that it's hard to generalize one guy calling another a "racist." However, I think Vernon Reid got it right, in that Elvis may not have "ripped" anyone off by stealing song credits a la the Chess brothers or Don Robey (or even, allegedly, Fats Domino - who Charles Brown was VERY bitter about when I met him in 1984, prior to his rediscovery), but that his persona as "the king of rock and roll" went a long way towards marginalizing the contributions of a huge group of people, most of them African American.

I think the issue comes down to a central pattern. I believe it's inarguable that the contribution to American music by African Americans is unrivaled. Certainly the Irish made a huge contribution via bluegrass, to mountain music to country to rock and roll, but from blues, through jazz, to r/b to rap and hip hop, time and again, African Americans have provided revolution after revolution.

I don't mean to understate the contributions of country to rock and roll, or skiffle music from Britain, for that matter. But if you look at rock and roll for what made it so earth shattering, it really wasn't the presence of country influences, was it?

To my mind, rock and roll was driven by the R/B music that most directly influenced it. Adding white faces and a country tinge, ultimately, made it more acceptable to a mass (mostly white) audience. In the 1950s, the site of a gazillion screaming girls over a twitching, hip-swiveling black man would have been impossible.

From this perspective, then, an R/B performer could respect Elvis' singing and performing abilities, but would also be somewhat bitter that "their" music was lining the pockets of yet another white interloper. Remember, at the same time, the jazz community was very divided over the "white" west coast cool movement (which was incredibly lucrative and popular) vs. the east coast "hot" or "hard bop" movement, which was less popular, but arguably artistically more adventurous. Something that had happened before in the big band era when the Dorseys, Glen Miller, etc, homogenized jazz and made a ton of money compared to many of the black band leaders who invented the stuff.

In short, it wasn't the first time this happened, and it wasn't the last. One of the bitterest interviews I've heard was a series of conversations with Memphis and Detroit musicians that were just on the brink of commercial success when the Beatles hit. In some ways, rap is revolutionary, because it's the first time music primarily developed by African Americans has been embraced by whites, without having white guys taking over (Vanilla Ice, Beastie Boys, and Third Base notwithstanding).

Hillbillies have never had to watch as every musical form they perfect is pablumized and popularized. Heck, Elvis was a hillbilly, and he made out just fine, monetarily. Same could be said of an incredible number of C/W performers. It's only recently that C/W has been completely co-opted by commercial pablum - though even in this case, Nashville only has itself to blame.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 20:29:27 CEST 2001 from spider-wb012.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.152)

Tommy

Jeez..First I'm being connotated as having a bad attitude towards women cause I like a certain writer, THEN I'm being "accused" of sending threatening emails.shit!

I've been writing in here for almost a year and I don't think I've written anything to make ANYONE think that I'm this kinda hateful person.Of course I bitch about things like anyone else in here,but when have I made myself, or eluded to the fact ,that I'm some kinda creepy,women-hating,email-threatening guy??Is it cause I didn't like 'In Watermelon Sugar'???,,,,,,,,,

Oh well, I've made enough friends in here that know I'm not that kind of person, and that's all that matters to me.So whomever in here has any theories about who is sending Lil threatening emails, please keep your mouth shut when you dont know what the hell you're talking about.Thanks.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 20:08:54 CEST 2001 from dialup-263.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.7)

Hank

Thanks to MattK and everyone for the input on the 'Elvis/Vernon Reid' thread.....

My point is this: For what it's worth, and as far as I can ascertain, Little Richard, Chuck Berry and Fats Domino have had nothing but the greatest respect for Elvis from the git-go....and THAT should be enough for the likes of Vernon Reid........ or Public Enemy for that matter.......It seems uninformed to pick on Elvis....he's too much of an easy target..........the man loved the music from the African-American tradition that surrounded him as he grew up and he gave it to the world............ When The Hawks called in on Sonny Boy and got wasted on corn liquer and made plans...they were following a tradition set up by Elvis Presley.......

Now....put THAT in yer pipes and smoke it!!!!........(ooops, sorry Crabby!!)

Posted on Wed Jul 25 19:56:45 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

MattK: Nope. I was only talking about Elvis Presley and his management. I'm not aware of an example of how they ripped off Bo Diddley or Charles Brown - credits-wise or style-wise.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 19:32:10 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Chuck Berry could sing the shit out of "Aura Lee"...er "Love Me Tender." Witness "Wee Wee Hours" - Chuck was rowdy, but could be brilliant on a ballad...ditto Fats.

Bill, are you suggesting that "hillbillies" have been bilked at the same level as black performers? I don't doubt that white performers were screwed, but I find it hard to believe that your average 1940s-50s era C/W "stars" found themselves as poor in the 1970s and 80s as such giants as Bo Diddley or Charles Brown ended up before their eventual "rediscovery."

Posted on Wed Jul 25 19:30:12 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of Garth's CD from the fine folks at Breeze Hill. Let me just mention that Randall Bramblett's new CD "No More Mr. Lucky" was released yesterday on the New West label. Randall's a gifted singer & songwriter, as well as a talented multi-instrumentalist. As a much in-demand sideman, he's worked with Levon Helm, Robbie Robertson, Allen Toussaint, Gregg Allman, Chuck Leavell & Sea Level, Steve Winwood, Gov't Mule, Widespread Panic and many others. With this new album of original material, he gets to show off his considerable skills as a songwriter & singer. Click on the webpage link above for further details and song samples. Randall rules!

Posted on Wed Jul 25 18:47:50 CEST 2001 from stcatherines-ppp109251.sympatico.ca (216.209.112.182)

Richard Patterson

MATT: Thanks for bringing up Living Colour. Many fond memories here.

BAYOU SAM: I've got a Vernon Reid solo album from '96 called "Mistaken Identity" that's pretty good. You're right, it is spelled properly with a "u"... : )

CRABGRASS: I'd like to hear John Wayne sing it.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 18:49:02 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

It seems to me that Elvis Inc. was an equal opportunity ripper-off. His management got his name added to the writing credits for all sorts of songs he had nothing to do with writing. Sure he deserves blame for being so trusting of the people around him, but none of us - simple like him or sophisticated like all of us here - gets to choose his or her own genes.

As for style, I'd say he added much to the songs that he recorded in the early days - and not just the R&B ones. Junior Parker's "Mystery Train" is great, but it's not the same song once Elvis was through with it. Ditto for "Hound Dog". And ditto for "Blue Moon of Kentucky"; but does the hillbilly crowd talk about how Elvis got rich on their music?

Posted on Wed Jul 25 18:31:43 CEST 2001 from spider-wd044.proxy.aol.com (205.188.193.169)

Dave ~ (the drummer)

Donna:Wishbone Ash is alive and well. I am a huge admirer of theirs also...love that twin lead guitar sound.

Unfortunately, WA plays almost exclusively in Europe. I spoke to their management and they said WA cannot get any tour support here in the U.S.A.

All the info you need is on WWW.WishboneAsh.com.

Have a great day everyone

Posted on Wed Jul 25 18:25:35 CEST 2001 from 1cust67.tnt30.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.42.158.67)

Crabgrass

I'd like to hear Little Richard, Fats Domino, or Chucks Berry or D. sing "Love Me Tender."

Posted on Wed Jul 25 16:57:02 CEST 2001 from st-catherines-ppp112465.sympatico.ca (216.209.140.94)

Richard Patterson

Hank: The lyrics you quote re Elvis are from Public Enemy "Fight the Power". And I don't think it was a case of Chuck D "missing it" on Elvis.

Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant shit to me
He's straight up racist
That sucker was simple and plain
Motherf*ck him and John Wayne

In "Elvis is Dead" Living Color quote from Public Enemy "Elvis was a hero to most" but then finish the verse with "But that’s beside the point / A black man taught him how to sing / And then he was crowned King". They take another stab at deflating Elvis a little later in the song with a line that is a rebuttal to Paul Simon's "Graceland" - "I’ve got a reason to believe / we all won’t be received in Graceland". Vernon Reid (Living Color guitarist) in ‘Spin’ 1990: "Elvis was great at the beginning… but the crown thing is something else. If he’s the King of Rock ‘n Roll, who’s Fats Domino? The court jester?"

Posted on Wed Jul 25 16:56:55 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Put more simply, Hank, and I'm not saying I COMPLETELY agree (though, as I've said before, I think Elvis is important for his cultural impact as an entertainer, and rather overrated for his artist impact as a musician)...

Chuck D would agree that Chuck Berry and Little Richard wrote the book, but he'd argue that Elvis, at least, simply copied the book, put his name on it, and sold it for more money.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 16:49:34 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Hank, the song you refer to is the rap group, Public Enemy's "Fight the Power" (based loosely on the old Isley Brothers hit). I too was released in 1988, as part of the soundtrack to Spike Lee's "Do the Right Thing" (the song plays over the opening credits and is the song Radio Rahim keeps blasting on his boombox, which in the end results in his death and subsequent riot).

The lyric you quote is out of context:

Elvis, was a hero to most
but he never meant shit to me
straight up racist, sucker was simple and pain
(yeah, mother f*** him and John Wayne)

The line references an alleged quote from Elvis:

"Quote: "The only thing a n***** can do for me is buy my records and shine my shoes."

The quote itself is controversial in origin and accuracy. It's source was never pinpointed, and Elvis himself denied saying it in an interview with "Jet" magazine.

Regardless of his denial, there are a number of people that believe he said it - adding substance to those who believe Elvis' success came from the fact he was simply a "white face on black music."

Chuck D, the lead rapper for PE is very much influenced by the ideas of Malcolm X and was in a lot of hot water in the early 90s due to his association with Louis Farakahn - though Chuck himself is not in the Nation of Islam, as far as I know. There was also a firestorm over another PE member making some overtly anti-semetic comments. Incidentally, this was during a particularly bad period in NYC (where PE is based) - the Tawana Brawley case was in full gear, Bed-Stuy was boiling over.

Personally, I LOVE Public Enemy. Specific to your point, I don't think Chuck was making an artistic point about Elvis. Simply, Chuck holds the not-uncommon belief that Elvis is a prime example of a white guy getting rich off the backs of a bunch of black guys. "Fight the Power" itself is an incerdible anthem about not believing everything they feed you - in the updated version, it's racial connotations are more explicit than you find in the origninal Isley Brothers' version.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 15:09:43 CEST 2001 from dialup-344.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.88)

Hank

Hope for The Future.........played a gig last night at this big place here in Cork called 'The Old Oak'....surprisingly, it always gets a huge crowd on a Tuesday night.... and when we took a break we let these young fellas up to do a few songs......They call themselves Jeebus....all 19 years old......they played a few songs....then I got up with them and they asked me to sing 'Bob Dylans 115th Dream'.....and they had it down!......The bass guitarist in the group then came up on stage with us and sang the third verse of 'The Weight' and was one of three voices for the vocal tag of the chorus......he even did Richards vocal whines in between verses...... a few weeks ago he sang 'I Shall Be Released' at an acoustic gig I was playing....I backed him on guitar and asked him which key he'd like to sing it in....... G oe E......he said G but then he said 'The Band do it in E, don't they?'......

As I said, Hope for The Future........

MattKs defence of late '80ies hard, crunchy rock was great! But were Living Colour the group that had that song about 'Elvis was a hero to most but he never meant shit to me'.......I dunno, but I hope someone put him right on Elvis.....I mean, I could be wrong, but if you've missed it on Elvis, you've probably missed it on Chuck and Little Richard and Buddy Holly, too.....them boys wrote the book.....

Posted on Wed Jul 25 14:12:44 CEST 2001 from as7-d87-sc-psci.psci.net (63.75.26.87)

Knockin' Lost John

Hmmmm?

Diamond Lil recently pissed Tommy off, and now she's getting email threats?

I wonder if there's a connection?

Maybe not, but shame on whoever it is!

John

Posted on Wed Jul 25 13:45:26 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp234.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.234)

Lil Again

I'm only going to post this once. The person who has been sending me threatening e-mails and signing someone else's name would be very smart to stop NOW. I _will_ go to the authorities if I receive another one. Thank you.

To all the folks this does not concern..sorry.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 11:44:48 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp234.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.234)

Diamond Lil

Thanks to everyone who answered my question about "Crackerbox Palace". Much appreciated!

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 08:42:09 CEST 2001 from spider-tk084.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.214)

Tommy

1st off,,,I was never, or will NEVER be a frat guy..I am no "he man",and I'm not horny...well, not usually.I like what I like, and that's that.

Anyway....

Friends, tonight I had the PLEASURE (and a free ticket!) to see Brian Wilson and Paul Simon at Jones Beach, NY.GREAT FUCKIN' SHOW!wilson's band was amazing, and you would've sworn that the harmonies were prerecorded.It sounded like they were playing Beach Boys' records, the harmonies were DEAD ON!Brian himself was seated behind a keyboard that he never even touched(prop?),and he did some strange hand movements through out the show,but performance wise, he was great!He was suprisingly very funny between the songs, too...giving some info about certain songs' inspirations.(Ie;Sloop John B.,"This is about a ship.")I really enjoyed it.

Paul Simon came out, and his set started off kinda slow.Some songs from You're The One that we're very similiar in style and made the begining of his set kinda drag(even though the songs and performances were good).But when he hit his stride,he stayed in there!He stopped mid-show and did some S&G songs, solo with an acoustic guitar (with cello accompaniment..spelling?).Good stuff.He swayed and danced like Elvis throughout the show..it was pretty funny.His mom was also sitting about two rows directly in front of us and he dedicated a song to her and introduced her to the crowd (our free tickets were in the 10th row.Nice!)All in all, a great night of good music.I was glad I got the chance to see these two "living legends"...and such short notice(I found out a few hours before that a friends' boss gave him the tickets)too!If anyone has any specific questions about the show, email me.Have fun, kids.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 07:51:50 CEST 2001 from spider-tm053.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.68)

Donna

I am so relieved that the reports on GH, health were contrived! Wishing George a speedy recovery!

Off the topic here, but I have a question, which has been on my mind all day. I heard the word Wishbone today, and I suddenly remembered an album I had called, "Wishbone Four," by the group Wishbone Ash. Some how I lost that album through the years. I just remembered being intrigued by this group, and the guitar virtuoso they exhibited during the 70's? The question is, does anyone here know if they are still around? If Wishbone Ash has released any new Cd's? It has been some time since I last listened to them, so my memerory is not serving me well. Any information will be much appreciated! ~Thanks!

Posted on Wed Jul 25 06:51:30 CEST 2001 from spider-ti012.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.177)

Travelin' Gals

(Dave Z - your favorite lurkers are making a guest appearance!)

Our toenails are painted and we're wearing our sandals. The Tonester and friends are looking forward to a Barnburnin' in the Poconos!

Posted on Wed Jul 25 04:17:36 CEST 2001 from spider-wb043.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.168)

Bayou Sam

BTW - Mr . Greif is mentioned in the lyrics to Crackerbox Palace.

Matt K - thanks for the further Living Colour (they do spell it with the "U" don't they) update. I hope they record again. One of my favorite songs to listen to nice and loud is "Love Rears It's Ugly Head".

Vernon Reid was quite repected among guitarists back then. I wonder what he was doing through the 90's.

I was dial surfing on the radio today and I heard Emmylou Harris' name and stopped. It was FUV and they played a cool tune that was called something to the effect of "Emmylou's Boots". It was about wishing for boots like Emmylous. I liked the tune. Does anyone have a clue who it was or what it's called? It was kind of a country-ish, blusey-ish song.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 03:54:48 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tc013.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.153)

Bayou Sam

From George's book "I Me Mine" =

CRACKERBOX PALACE - I was in Cannes for the Midem Music Festival in 1975 and I met a man and talked to him and said " I don't know if this is an insult or a compliment, but you remind me of Lord Buckley". He said "I managed him for eighteen years", which was an incredible coincidence.

Lord Buckley was a hip comedian. He was very 'up' all the time and he was very important to me during the sixties.

So I was talking with this guy, George Greif, in France, about Lord Buckley, and he said Buckley lived in an old beaten-up house in Los Angeles which he called 'Crackerbox Palace'. I thought 'Ah, that sounds like a song and wrote it down on a cigarette pack. I came home and wrote the song.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 03:19:20 CEST 2001 from akcf2.xtra.co.nz (203.96.111.200)

Rod

Reading Peter's article made me really glad I forked out the $NZ50 for the CD (plus postage). I haven't recieved it yet but it can't be too far off.

Peter made some interesting comments about the Robertson / Hudson influence in The Band. I guess that out of necessity this started to come to the fore on NLSC and on songs like The Well. I remember thinking at the time that if The Band did ever reunite then this was the logical area for them to progess in - and that Richard Manual would have been the ideal vocalist for this sort of project. However it never happened and the 90's Band went more in a country / blues direction under the influence of Danko and Helm. I still think that Garth often wasn'y much more than a sideman in this scenario often reduced to reproducing his old sounds.

A Robertson / Hudson project would indeed be something to hear. I'm sure Robbie's still got a few good songs in him, alas they would need to find a new vocalist. In the mean time though I'll just keep checking the mailbox.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 02:32:50 CEST 2001 from spider-tl061.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.201)

JTull fan

AH, back from a long trip to CT. Missed the GB. Peter: thanks for the Garth Hudson review. Love the B Wilson/Smile comparison. Would love to see Garth also work with Gary Brooker of Procol Harum. Always thought Matthew Fischer's organ work had some similriities. I need to get off my butt and order it. Question for all of you: I heard stories of Robbie Robertson offering to work with the reformed band again to one degree or another. What is the truth to this if any? Would love to know. Did they reject his offers?

Posted on Wed Jul 25 02:00:31 CEST 2001 from m198214181105.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.181.105)

Pehr

A couple things briefly: I "Saw" George Harrison's Estate, in the center of a lovely town called Henley-on-Thames a couple times. One can't really see it at all: It is surrounded by a very high brick wall and wire up above that. The estate is somewhere deep within the enclosure, and the place wassaid to be patrolled by dogs. Down the hill a bit they have a lovely section on the thames and hold a regatta that runs through. It is not unlike being in an impressionist painting,or Mary Poppins. beautiful. I tried to find the posted link listed earlier and couldn't get the page up, so here is my 2 cents.

bob wigo, you asked about movies a week or so back. I recommend a couple. I love Jim Jasrmusch's "Year of the Horse", a documentary on Neil and Crazy Horse. Alot of us know RR was inspired by Luis Bunuel in writing "The Weight". A couple of his movies that are on that thread are some real weird ones: "Un Chien Andalou", (with Salvador Dali) and "Land Without Bread", one of my all time favorites. Both are short, about 45 min each. worth looking up. A feature length Bunuel I love is "el- A Strange Passion." His movies are another thing I'm grateful to have picked up as a result of threads made available thru this website.

finally, last night I blew em away, I mean dusted em off... on stage, at the pool table, in the pool, it didnt matter where i went, I was on. when asked what happened to this 90 lb weakling I told my secret...I been smoking Crabgrass!

Posted on Wed Jul 25 01:46:47 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-112-187.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.112.187)

BWNWITennessee

Tommy: re. picking up chicks, I always find that you get the best results if you attempt to do so whilst in a drunken stupor. It loosens inhibitions and whatnot. Plus, it makes it all that much easier to leave early the next morning and not feel guilty about it, especially if you've just vomited on her carpet.

But it is true that most of your average horny frat-guy he-man redneck types are secret admirers of cult literary figures.

Posted on Wed Jul 25 01:34:04 CEST 2001 from as9-d148-sc-psci.psci.net (63.65.187.148)

Knockin' Lost John

Hey JAN:

I got that virus email thingy twice today! Thanx for the heads up on that one. Sometimes I open things out of curiosity. Guess that's a bad habit, huh?

Thanx again,

Great SITE!!!!!!!!!

John

Posted on Wed Jul 25 00:27:51 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

Bob & Ann:......thanx.........

Posted on Tue Jul 24 23:36:30 CEST 2001 from dsl-20-141-108.boston.navipath.net (64.20.141.108)

rich steffens

Garth and Maude's involvement with the production of Largo made for great theatre. Nothing to do with soil management in Canada. Noodling at it's best.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 22:55:49 CEST 2001 from spider-we034.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.34)

Joe

I agree with Bob Wigo!!! Keep up the good work Jan! Without you we would not have such a fantastic and informative site.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 22:53:55 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp173.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.173)

Diamond Lil

Tommy: Sorry if the poorly worded comment in my last post hinders your ability to "pick up chicks". Since I don't know you, it was certainly nothing personal. I only meant that quite a few men seem to glorify writings such as Bukowski's (hence my 'why am i not surprised?' comment) which (made up or not) are very degrading to women. Sorry if I fail to see the humor in that.

Have a good night everyone.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 22:38:18 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-161.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.161)

Peter Viney

The editions of Bukowski around at the moment are almost worth buying for the superb cover art - I've succumbed to three. Content? Well, not as good as literature as the covers are as illustration.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 20:59:18 CEST 2001 from spider-wo082.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.57)

Tommy

Lil''''Re;My liking Bukowski..."I'm not suprised."What's that mean??Have I ever said anything here in the GB that would make ANYONE think I have a bad attitude towards women???

If you've read enough of his stuff, you'd see that it is mostly comical,especially the sex stories which were written for adult magazines in the 60s and 70s.Most of his stories are made up anyway, but passed off as true events ..I guess to sell articles/short stories/books.I just thought that was a crummy and uncalled for remark you made,,,,now everyone's gonna think I'm a chauvanist!How's that gonna help me pick up chicks?!.

******

Harrison had/has a series of tunnels and caves under his house filled with water ,and he would take small boat rides through it....kinda like the tunnel of love.Very odd.There's a picture in a book I have about him wherein him and a friend are paddling through said tunnels.Crackers!

Posted on Tue Jul 24 20:39:47 CEST 2001 from raindel.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.249)

Ann

Well said Bob Wigo.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 20:30:07 CEST 2001 from spider-wi081.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.56)

bob wigo

Thank you Jan for your amazing dedication to this place. The site grows and improves daily and should be recognized as not only the best website dedicated to a popular band but possibly as THE best website dedicated to any subject.We are blessed to share the fruits of your labor.

My sincere thanks as well to all the wonderful contributors who enrich my life daily. Your opinions, comments, recommendations and ruminations have become required daily fare. I am grateful.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 20:16:24 CEST 2001 from atmax-2-19.enter.net (207.16.153.75)

Crackers the Gnome

Photo of the Crackerbox Palace on the site referenced by Steve Knowlton...

Posted on Tue Jul 24 20:14:39 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Just received Levon's Drumming Video. I ordered it just to get "Short Fat Fannie." With the Canadian Dollar sucking the big one it was rather expensive; but well worth it.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 20:11:52 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Just got a response from Spinnaker where Robert told me to go re: the Wilbury's CD and they know longer carry it. Oh well.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 19:36:22 CEST 2001 from 1cust133.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.57.133)

Crabgrass

Eudora Welty was 92. My personal favorite American writer (Mary) Flannery O'Connor was only 38 when she succumbed to lupus in 1964 thus missing the stellar careers of Dylan, The Beatles, and The Band. We should all be so lucky to live as long as Ms. Welty. (BTW I believe she was a non-smoker.)

Still a few jpegs of RR not smoking left - e-mail me if you want one.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 19:13:57 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

It would be a great time to watch Levon's Great Drives Video. It was really well done with Levon, Willie Morris and Eudora Welty. Sadly, we have now lost both Willie and the great Eudora Welty.

Garth's cds came in the mail yesterday! I am so excited!

Posted on Tue Jul 24 18:39:04 CEST 2001 from du138-3.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.3.138)

Ilkka

The exclusive thread which separates the men from the boys: THE DUTCH-SWEDISH-FINNISH MUSICAL CONNECTIONS

All you talented regulars of this mythical guestbook are clever enough to know that the American rock music (incl. The Band) is a fusion of many different musical traditions. However, we have had fusions here in Europe, too. One of the most interesting, in my mind, is Norb...eerrr...CORNELIS VREESWIJK's album "En spjutkastares visor" (in English: "The Songs Of An Javelin Thrower") from the year 1980.

Ragt...eerrr...CORNELIS VREESWIJK was the number one singer/songwriter in Sweden. With his Dutch roots he invented some new and fresh aspects in the Swedish troubadour tradition. Somehow Cornelis - the living archetype of the legendary freewheeling heavy-drinking melancholic but yet joyful cockerspaniel-eyed fat Dutch bohemian - came to contact with the handsome TAPIO RAUTAVAARA who was the number one macho-troubadour in Finland and he recorded some of his most popular songs. The tragic Tapio lived on the fast lane: despite being a talented singer/songwriter he was acting as the hero and the ladie's man in no less than 25 black and white movies, had the Olympic Golden Medal in javelin throw (London 1948) and the World Championship in archery in 1958 (I mention these seductive things especially for Sehr geehrter Herr Doktor Professor SIGMUND FREUD who is certainly reading this gb in the hea... or whereever he is now), he was drinking hard - and ironically died by slipping on a soap by the side of the swimming pool. God bless him for what he's done.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 18:19:16 CEST 2001 from 222.good.net (209.54.25.222)

MattK

Another unrelated note. RIP Eudora Welty - IMHO, America's finest living Southern writer until her death yesterday. Heck, she's just one of America's greatest writers, living or dead, regardless of region. Her depression-era photos taken while working for the WPA in Mississippi are phenomenal as well.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 18:17:01 CEST 2001 from 222.good.net (209.54.25.222)

MattK

Living Colour...man, 1988 was such a great year for really hard and crunchy music. Jane's Addiction, Living Colour, Fishbone's "Truth and Soul," Red Hot Chili Peppers weren't over-exposed, and their best album, "Uplift Party Mofo Plan" was still fresh. Prince came out with Lovesexy/Black Album. The Pixies put out their first full LP, "Surfa Rosa." It's easy to dump the entire 1980s in to the "hall of crap," but speaking as someone who spent most of his youth in the 1980s, there were a number of highlights capable of holding their own in any decade. Living Colour is one such act. Their summer '88 show at Mardi Gras in Denver is still one of my all-time concert-going highlights (along with the Prince show from that same year).

Living Colour's reformation grew out of a late 2000 gig in NYC. Former Living Colour members, singer Corey Glover, bassist Doug Wimbish (who replaced original bassist Muzz Skillings in the early 90s)and drummer Will Calhoun reformed in a group called "Headfake" (minus Reid). Late last year at a Headfake gig (opening for an unnamed "special guest"), Glover introduced Reid to the audience after Headfake's set, and it turned out the "special guest" was, in fact, Living Colour.

The band is touring now, having completed a West Coast swing of smallish clubs in the Spring. Currently, they are hitting the east coast, from CT down to DC, with midwest gigs in Michigan and Chicago coming up shortly. It's my understanding Wimbish is still the bassist, with Skillings not in the current lineup.

No real Band connection, it seems, though Glover had a fairly successful, if low-key, acting career going just prior to Living Colour hitting it big (he's in the movie "Platoon"). Reid is arguably my all-time favorite guitarist, and was so prior to Living Colour. His work with Defunkt, and particularly Ronald Shannon Jackson (check out "Barbecue Dog" - insane album). I'm hard-pressed to name a guitarist so accomplished in so many genres, including funk, avant garde jazz, blues, metal...

Posted on Tue Jul 24 17:12:22 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Glad to hear that the reports of George Harrison's near-death have been, in the words of Mark Twain, "greatly exaggerated".

Since his contract with Warner Bros. expired several years ago, the rights to Mr. Harrison's post-Beatle/Apple solo recordings reverted back to him. He also controls the rights to "Concert for Bangladesh" and Traveling Wilburys projects. This explains why these recordings have been "out-of-print" in recent years. It's my understanding that Mr. Harrison has been working on negotiations for licensing the re-release of much of this material. It has also been reported that he has been working on a new album, with the involvement of his son Dhani. Unfortunately, events of greater magnitude have entered into his life. Hopefully, in the near future, these recordings will be released. Since Mr. Harrison controls his music, rest assured it will be issued pursuant to his wishes.

On the subject of David McCullough's Adams biography -- I understand that there's recently been a controversy regarding Mr. McCullough's apparent misattribution to Thomas Jefferson of a key quote about John Adams.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 16:35:06 CEST 2001 from dialin-685-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.3.177)

Gene

In February, 1969, George left his mansion in Esher, called 'Kinfauns', to move to the Sir Frank Crisp mansion in Oxfordshire. According to the Harrison 1980 autobiography, 'I Me Mine', (sadly, long out of print), the Crisp mansion was previously owned by an order of Catholic nuns, and in a state of general disrepair. It was built by Crisp in the 1870's. Harrison loves the gardens and privacy, however, this was where he was attacked recently, by a crazed fan, who had broken into the house.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 15:41:54 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-125.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.125)

Peter Viney

George’s estate (much pictured after the attack on him) is bizarre, Gothic and of a palatial scale, and was built by a famous eccentric, I think. (Gene? Any ideas?) “Crackers” means “insane” in British English but is a kind of nice way of saying it, “loony”, “crazy”. If you’re crackers you’re definitely still walking the streets and people find you entertaining. So it was a crackerbox (built by someone crackers to contain himself). Maybe this is why the British-owned Capitol wouldn’t let The Hawks use the name … only joking. But it’s nothing at all to do with the US meaning of “cracker”. BTW, a third British meaning of cracker is an approving term for a beautiful female, “She’s a cracker!” or, as I thought watching Goldie Hawn on a TV chat show last night, “She’s still a cracker.”

Posted on Tue Jul 24 15:20:16 CEST 2001 from (205.211.160.1)

Jerry Tenenbaum

In the tradition of The Band, the work of Counting Crows has been very good to exceptional most of the time. This song follows appropriately in this welcome tradition. A tribute to a great singer from a great ensemble is always welcome from where I sit.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 15:19:53 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

There's a picture of George's estate at the web site above. Also, in the poster that came with All Things Must Pass you can see George in a tower there. (Front cover photo taken on the lawn).

Songs about the place include "Let It Roll" (the lyrics of which include some of the epigrams carved into the doorways and mantels by the original owner, Sir Frankie Crisp).

An otherwise trashy book that has lots of interesting stories about Friar Park is "Dark Horse" by Geoffrey Giuliano. Among all the other great things George has done is preserving this very eccentric piece of Victorian architecture - probably better than the National Trust could have.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 14:46:06 CEST 2001 from spider-wi042.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.37)

bob wigo

Lil,

Everything I've read says "Crackerbox Palace" refers to a home near Oxfordshire that Harrison purchased back in the Sixties. Apparently it was the rather sizable estate of a wealthy British businessman, adorned with elaborate gardens and gnomelike statuary.

Is this, in fact, the case? Anyone know any more about it? Peter?

Posted on Tue Jul 24 13:03:32 CEST 2001 from grmn-189ppp235.dialup.valstar.net (216.37.189.235)

Diamond Lil

Tommy: Bukowski, hm? Why am I not surprised? I've read quite a bit of his stuff, and frankly I have a real problem with his attitude towards women. He seemed to treat them as nothing more than sex objects..use them and leave them..and somehow, in his drunken stupor, he always portayed himself as the victim. Wonder why so many men seem to identify with him?

Good news about George Harrison. Let's hope he beats this thing and lives a long and happy life.

And speaking of Harrison, can anyone tell me what the tune "Crackerbox Palace" is about? It's always been a favorite of mine, but I'm wondering if there's a story behind it. Thanks.

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 10:09:11 CEST 2001 from proxy-1311.public.svc.webtv.net (209.240.220.140)

Garth Fan

All i can say about Garth`s cd is WOW!!!!!

Posted on Tue Jul 24 08:51:00 CEST 2001 from twhou-212-21.ev1.net (207.218.212.21)

Laura Holt Lorfing

Im depressed about George. I don't want this news to be true. I'm hoping like eveyone else is that this news has been blown out of preportion. I've had a loved one die from a brain tumor and it's a horribly painful thing. I pray it's over with quick for him if this news is true. I can't stand the thought of him being in pain. My prayers are with him.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 06:19:20 CEST 2001 from spider-ti014.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.179)

guido

I had the supreme pleasure of having Garth Hudson play on my record last week! It was, needless to say, a life changing experience....Levon is gonna' play for a couple of days next week, so life is good!

Posted on Tue Jul 24 06:08:30 CEST 2001 from h0000f8718e9a.ne.mediaone.net (24.218.187.47)

The Truth

That Counting Crows song is shite.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 04:44:28 CEST 2001 from spider-wn061.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.176)

Tommy

I TRIED reading 'In Watermelon Sugar', but couldn't stand it.It was fruity,trite,hippie crap.I just couldn't do it.Sorry.Maybe I shoulda been on acid...?Oh well...I'll stick to Bukowski (The Band connection;Charles Bukowski went out with a former girlfriend of Levon's.I don't know her name offhand.)

Yeah, what's this about a re-released Wilbury's Vol.1????I didn't know that was coming out!MORE INFO PLEASE!!!!

Posted on Tue Jul 24 04:44:17 CEST 2001 from as10-d153-sc-psci.psci.net (63.65.191.153)

Knockin' Lost John

Hi

Well, the Wilbury Bonus tracks DO indeed exist, because you can download them on Limewire (sort of like Napster before it got crappy).

But, I'd rather buy the CD than download. BOB R, where the heck do you live? I too have looked everywhere since I read yor post & can't find the Wilbury reissue!

Help us, Bob R, you're our only hope!

John

Posted on Tue Jul 24 04:15:11 CEST 2001 from spider-tp031.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.186)

Dave Z

Peter V: Good for George Harrison... and thanks for clarifying... I myself was just starting to speculate on the coincidence... that maybe George got his copy of "Sea"... and well... we all welcome its healing effects... anyway, this R&R turning 60ish stuff scares the jujubees outta me... Let's hope for the best.... I'm listening to "Little Island" right now... and it reminds me of a favorite Annette Benning/Warren Beatty movie "Affair"... and the pretty song played when they are on the island with Katherine Hepburn...

Posted on Tue Jul 24 03:55:01 CEST 2001 from dialin-340-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.2.86)

Gene

Bashful Bill - I remember Richard Brautigan's books, as, I am sure, do others here. I probably still have my old copy of 'In Watermelon Sugar' around somewhere. Good book, as I recall, although it's probably been, geez, 30 years since I read it.

Lately, I've been re-reading another favorite, 'The Ten Grandmothers' I'm pretty sure that somebody here has read that book, too.

Delilah - Hope you find what you're looking for, let us know, okay?

Posted on Tue Jul 24 03:34:45 CEST 2001 from dialup-267.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.11)

Hank

I TOLD you a few Hare Krishnas would help!

The song about Richard is not about Richard a'tall a'tall....I think....did I read it wrong?...I dunno...anyway, it seems like a love song with that single motif to catch our eye.....OUR eye specifially....I would EYE would imagine.........

Mt. Vesuvius is revolting Molten Lava........Isn't Bob Dylan in the area?

Posted on Tue Jul 24 02:56:29 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

BOB R.

Where did you find this Wilbury's CD your talking about. I checked Amazon.com and CDNow and the Wilburys site and there is no mention of this CD. I'm really interested. Thank you.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 01:50:02 CEST 2001 from pool-63.49.29.64.mmph.grid.net (63.49.29.64)

Dexy

Didn't mean to post the same story on George's statement today that had just been posted. When I went to the GB to paste the story, it wasn't yet there. I guess there were a lot of GH posts being written at about the same time. Thanks Peter V. for the info on The Mail. I sure hope they were making the story up in toto. I also agree with Bob Wigo (as usual) - George is the most private of legends, and this whole thing must only make the situation that much worse for him and his family. It seems he has been having to issue statements and photos on a regular basis for the past few years to show he is "ok," either from cancer or the attack. I've never understood why the Rock Hall has waited so long to have him inducted as a solo, but this only makes that delay seem even more absurd, at least to me.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 01:45:40 CEST 2001 from spider-te013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.178)

Bayou Sam

Dave Hopkins - I heard the same report today on the radio about George. It was nice news. I had to take a long drive last night for work (about 200 miles) alone, and I was so sad about George that I listened to the whole All Things Must Pass album. I got to thinking though, that having seen many interviews with George Martin, I can't imagine him making any kind of comment to ANYONE like the one attributed to him. He's too much of a class act for that.

Anyway, the newest George news is better. I still think that because of his intense privacy, we will not hear anything worth a shit unless it comes from George. So we'll just send our prayers and dig his wonderful music. That's what it's there for.

John D. - Yes, the Beatle records did differ all over the world up until they put a stop to it from Sgt. pepper on up.

bassmanlee - thanks for the Living Colour update. I just drove through New Haven today. I could have checked it out. I just hope that if they are back together they have Cory Glover, and Vernon Reid in the fold - or else, forget it.

" Give me hope, help me cope with this heavy load" - GH

Posted on Tue Jul 24 01:45:06 CEST 2001 from spider-tr034.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.189)

Brien Sz

Yes, the 'Adams' bio is quite good, what i have read. I'm a third of the way through and the man is amazing, the energy, the passion, surely something we lack in our leaders today (so it seems). Abigal is quite the gal, very bright, but other sources i have read about her that really hasn't come up yet in the book, she was quite a control freak over her children. She never approved of her sons, JQA comes to mind, choice of women. She preferred her children dote on her. This is what i have read about her in other books about the Presidents.., Nonetheless, an excellent read so far. An amazing man Adams, though his independent spirit did not serve him so well when it came to working with Congress as President.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 01:19:20 CEST 2001 from pool-63.49.29.64.mmph.grid.net (63.49.29.64)

Dexy

As a life-long George fanatic, I really hope this one is accurate -- a report from Ananova: Ex-Beatle denies `imminent death' reports The former Beatle George Harrison has denied reports he is near death's door. The 58-year-old said he was "active and feeling very well". He and his wife Olivia said they were "disappointed and disgusted" by suggestions he was close to dying. Mr Harrison was treated for a brain tumour last month at a Swiss clinic which followed an operation on his lung earlier this year for cancer. The statement said: "The reports were unsubstantiated, untrue, insensitive and uncalled for, especially as Mr Harrison is active and feeling very well in spite of the health challenges he has had this year." Story filed: 19:11 Monday 23rd July 2001

Posted on Tue Jul 24 00:43:59 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-105.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.105)

Peter Viney

British press: to expand. The “Mail” (with The Express) holds a central position between the tabloids (Mirror, Sun, Star – which are obvious crap) and the so-called serious press (Times, Telegraph, Guardian, Independent). All papers are biased heavily. The Mail is useful to me (and I buy it) because in my work with English Language materials I am constantly seeking authentic texts from the press. The real tabloids use too much slang to be useful. The serious papers use too many long words. The Mail is “about right” for learners of English. Not too much slang. Not too many long words. At heart it’s a tabloid (which it is in shape) but pretends to be a serious paper. Everything about the story smells “Italian paparazzi” – it was sourced in Tuscany, where it is said George is. That’s not to say it’s right or wrong. What it is, clearly, is no one’s right nor business to invade his privacy at this time. Which is why I didn’t even comment earlier. My hopes are with him. Ours is not to speculate.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 00:09:40 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-057.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.57)

Peter Viney

"The Mail on Sunday" is just a sliver above The National Enquirer in that it likes to wrap its crap in holier-than-thou pontificating. I do not take it as a reliable source, nor am I offended by ANY criticism of the British press, however severe. We used to wrap our fish and chips in them. In poorer days (pre-1950s) we wiped on bottoms on them. Now we have Andrex toilet tissue. We are First World in that. I sincerely hope they're bullshitting about George Harrison, and all my thoughts hope they are. It sounds like they pulled the story from the Italian papparazzi, who are even worse. They spent the entire week before trying to manipulate the Conservative party elections with constant deep character attacks on Portillo (because he said he would CONSIDER - nothing more - a "lighter stance" on cannabis). Don't like the guy at all myself. Hated the naked media manipulation against him far more.

Posted on Tue Jul 24 00:07:10 CEST 2001 from user-33qt9ea.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.165.202)

Pat Brennan

mattk, I'm searching for a Band link but....

The Adams bio is superb. He comes across as easily the key figure in the American Revolution (while Jefferson looks rather tepid) and a pretty cool guy to boot. And Abigail is quite the gal.

Written by David McCullough who voiced Ken Burns's The Civil War which covered the night they drove old Dixie down....(weak, weak, weak)

Posted on Mon Jul 23 23:31:09 CEST 2001 from (141.211.54.38)

Jamie

Jan: Thanks - I got one of those viruses myself, and your message let me identify it before I did anything dumb.

Steve K: I just finished listening to Planet Waves with your notes on Richard's piano in front of me. Excellent advice! It gave me a whole new dimension to the experience - I had noticed the piano on "Going, Going,.." but most of the other stuff had slipped right by me. Thanks!

(You'd think you were, like, a professional or something.)

Posted on Mon Jul 23 22:55:00 CEST 2001 from spider-tk071.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.206)

bob wigo

Tricky business this George Harrison watch. A man who obviously values his privacy, going through the most difficult of times, hawked by a press corp notorious for inaccuracies, lack of sensitivity and a fascination for the morbid. The British press has a long and far less than stellar reputation for mistreating those in the public eye. Not only will I say "no offense" to our Peter Viney but I will ask that he share his views on the subject. There are countless examples of the British tabloids printing vicious, unfounded story lines that are extremely personal in nature. Unfortunately, we here in the States have followed suit in many cases. I will only say this...It is not good form to speculate on a man's life.

George Harrison deserves better. My prayers are with him.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 22:47:50 CEST 2001 from atpm3-3-1.enter.net (208.137.243.103)

Chester

I hope nobody writes a song titled "Rick Danko is Dead."

Posted on Mon Jul 23 22:26:14 CEST 2001 from (216.41.37.213)

Bob R

Hi all: As stated before, George Harrison & George Martin both denying the published reports of his impending demise....great news...was in a local record shop today and saw the newly re-released "Traveling Wilburys Vol 1" on CD...includes 5 or 6 bonus tracks, demos of some of the finished songs...$16.99..a really fun set, a great addition to any collection--nice to hear again since its been out of print for awhile. Also saw a set George recorded with the Rhada Krisna Temple in London in 1969..recording engineer is credited to Linda Mccartney--good to see this stuff again----the 1st song on the CD, "Govinda" actually made it to #1 on the British charts way back when...anyway, I'm rambling--just really glad to hear that George will be with us for awile !

Posted on Mon Jul 23 22:25:46 CEST 2001 from spider-tl014.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.179)

Tommy

I echo Ann's words.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 22:19:00 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.37)

Bones

I pray all these George Harrison rumors are false. To me, All Things Must Pass is the greatest of all solo Beatle recordings. What a wonderful record! Be well, George.

Thanks for the Counting Crows link! I hope they release the tune on their next record. I want a million people to find out what we already know....that Richard Manuel was special.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 21:24:01 CEST 2001 from raindel.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.249)

Ann

Dave Hopkins you have made my day.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 21:06:06 CEST 2001 from roc-24-95-208-75.rochester.rr.com (24.95.208.75)

Dave Hopkins

George Harrison denies reports that he is near death

By Associated Press, 07/23/2001

LONDON - George Harrison is denying reports that he is near death.

The former Beatle issued a statement today saying that he is "active and feeling very well."

The 58-year-old musician has been treated for a brain tumor at a clinic in Switzerland, having already had an operation for lung cancer earlier this year.

Over the weekend "The Mail on Sunday" -- a British newspaper -- quoted former Beatles producer George Martin as saying that Harrison believes he's lost his battle with cancer and that he expects to die soon.

"He is taking it easy and hoping that the thing will go away. He has an indomitable spirit, but he knows that he is going to die soon and he is accepting that," said Martin, dubbed the "fifth Beatle."

But Martin's own manager denies that the producer made those comments -- or that he even gave an "exclusive" interview, as the newspaper claimed.

In today's statement, Harrison and his wife said they are "disappointed and disgusted" by the suggestions that he is close to dying.

Harrison said the newspaper reports were "unsubstantiated, untrue, insensitive and uncalled for."

Posted on Mon Jul 23 20:40:52 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Pat, how is the Adams biography? I've shied away from it, as I figure it will be in the discount piles soon enough (not the kind of thing an author likes to hear, I know). I say this not because of the quality of the book, but because I've found patience always pays off in the genre, no matter how popular a book may be. Biographies (sadly for the author, but happily for readers) seem to have a pretty high "churn" rate, and you can score the hard cover wicked cheap - the joys of the non-fiction reader...

I did watch part of the Neil Diamond thing on VH-1, but my wife was watching as well, and there's no way she'd sit through any Neil. I think I've mentioned before that I actually have a kind of "warm childhood memory" appreciation for Neil.

My parents listened to the 8-tracks of "Stones" and "Hot August Night" almost ritualistically when we'd take our weekend trips to the mountains outside Denver (back when you you didn't see condos after you passed through the "hogback" on I-70). Somehow, early Neil still reminds me of the pristine wilderness that I idealized Colorado to be as a child - maybe it didn't really exist then, but it sure doesn't exist now.

Ironically, my parents interest in Neil faded at the time of "Beautiful Noise" - they felt (get this), Neil was getting "too commercial" by getting together with a "rock star." So there, the old-school Neil fans were probably as annoyed at Neil's TLW gig as die-hard Band fans are. I also remember my eldery grandmother buying, then tossing, "hot august night" because (after looking at the picture of Neil on the cover) she decided Neil looked like "a dirty hippy."

Bassman - \b is a single line break.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 19:32:29 CEST 2001 from (209.195.208.10)

bassmanlee

Bayou Sam - I was surprised to see a poster advertising an upcoming date with Living Color at Toad's Place in New Haven, CT later this month. Maybe you could take the train! So apparently they are back together, although I've no confirmation of line-up, as I did not examine the picture closely.

Mattk, how do you get one-line carriage returns? Backslash-n always gives me a "new paragraph" spacing.

Positive vibes and prayers to Mr. Harrison.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 18:53:57 CEST 2001 from spider-tl033.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.188)

Delilah

it was a cool web site! but if there are any hott guys out there, im single, so email me anytime!!

Posted on Mon Jul 23 18:13:48 CEST 2001 from user-33qt92l.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.164.85)

Pat Brennan

I'm kinda stunned that I'm (seemingly) the only one who stayed up for this one, but last night I watched VH1's Behind The Music featuring Neil Diamond. As they approached 1976 I started getting nervous. Seems in 1972 Neil decided to quit touring to get in touch with himself; he continued to record and produced the soundtrack to Jonathan Livingston Seagull. He also continued to write, and when he went back into the studio, Robbie made his appearance, accompanied by some Brown Album stills of the boys. According to the show, the resulting RR-produced album "Beautiful Noise" garnered critical praise. Then, in a recent interview, RR said something to the effect that no one was going to tell him who he could work with and that he was extremely proud of that record. There were some stills from the sessions with RR in suitably producer-esque poses and a short audio clip of the album's Dry Your Eyes.. No mention of Neil's protean appearance in The Last Waltz. I then turned it off and picked up the John Adams biography everyone is reading.

There was a certain unintended humor to the show, as there is with all of these types of shows. I guess at their base, they all tell practically the same story. But watching Neil's hair and wardrobe gave this one an especial dose of the giggles. Interestingly enough, Neil answers his fashion detractors by saying if someone tells him not to do something, he's more than likely to do it tenfold. Perhaps we should all write him and ask him to record an album a year.

I was again struck that the only song I really liked was Cherry, Cherry.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 18:05:10 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

No Mr. Munson it was with me.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 18:02:53 CEST 2001 from (12.34.17.217)

Johnny Flippo

Sublime, Mr & Ms Hudson. Absolutely sublime.

Mr Ryan - thank you for your prompt service.

Ms Spinosa, Messrs. Hurwitz, Burke, Dunn, DeMicco, Eppard, Packer, Spurlock, Musick, Been, Weeks, Brubeck, Roy and (of course) Helm- God bless you all.

Shout out to the Das boys.

To all of you in GB land - of *course* it's worth the price of admission. Fork it over.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 17:25:04 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-008.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.8)

Peter Viney

Bill- great to hear news of Mike Rosen.

I ordered “The Sea to the North” on Wednesday night from Breeze Hill and it has winged its way across the Atlantic and is here already. Thanks to Breeze Hill for great service. Can I suggest we all contact our local newspaper review departments with the suggestion that they should get hold of the album and review it? I’m sure Breeze Hill is doing this, but the more the merrier. I have been busy all day and look forward to sitting down with it this evening.

Though I’ve had the normal multiple junk mail from Togo and Nigeria offering me millions of pounds, and a few unpleasant porn site messages, I haven’t seen this particular virus-infected Sircam one (YET!). Is it Windows only or are Mac users also in danger?

Posted on Mon Jul 23 17:02:47 CEST 2001 from raindel.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.249)

Ann

Hey Jan, Thanks for the heads up on that virus. Had that message from 6 different people this morning alone in my e-mail.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 16:40:46 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

John: I heard that interview with Tom and Mimi. I think they may even have played a tune or two over the air, live in the studio. Though, to tell you the truth, I would have said it was during Tim Thomas' show.

That someone mentioned Dan Brubeck - I think because he played on Garth's new CD - struck me because I was thinking of his brother Darius over the weekend. Darius spent some of the late '60s in Ottawa, where he formed the Heavenly Blue with Bruce Cockburn on guitar. Cockburn's place was eventually taken by Amos Garrett, who stayed in touch with Darius and sang and played on Brubeck's "Chaplin's Back" LP. Brubeck's recording band in the early '70s was called the New Heavenly Blue.

Peter V, especially: I went downtown to see ex-Hawk Eugene (Jay) Smith guest with the Lincolns on Thursday night, and who should be on trumpet but Mike Rosen!!

Posted on Mon Jul 23 16:19:30 CEST 2001 from bob4.alltel.com (166.102.173.134)

Kevin Gilbertson

Matt K.

I deleted the song once Jan added it to this site. You can find it here in the archives.

Look at the What's New section for the link.

Peace

Posted on Mon Jul 23 16:12:56 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

I have to say, Counting Crows is a band that I never "got." Some of the stuff on the first album was ok, but they always seemed awfully repetitive to me. On a more superficial note, I could never understand why Duritz always grabs his shirt and twists it in some sort of faux act of intensity - I thought it was kind of the New Age version of a metal head grabbing his crotch.

Anyway, I was curious about this "Richard Manuel is Dead" song. I have to say, I had visions of Bauhaus singing "Bela Legosi's Dead," but after thinking about it, I doubt there's much similarity. I looked up Kevin's site for the MP3 and the file was not there. I looked around a bit, and found the lyrics to the song, however...

Richard Manuel Is Dead
Words by: Adam Duritz, Music by: Counting Crows

Got a message in my head that the papers had all gone
Richard Manuel is dead and the daylight's comming on
I've been wondering in the dark
Now I'm standing on the lawn

If I could give all my love to you
I could justify myself, but I'm just not comming through
You're a pill to ease the pain of the stupid things I do
You're an anchor on the line for a clock that's out of time
That is running out on you.

Well it was cold when I woke and the day was half way done
It's nearly spring time in San Francisco, but I cannot feel the sun
You were sleeping next to me, but I knew you would be gone

If I could give all my love to you
I could justify myself, but I'm just not comming through
You're a pill to ease the pain of the stupid things I do
You're an anchor on the line for a clock that's out of time
That is running out on you.

Take some time before you go
Think of Mondays comming down
And the people that you knew
And the ones that aren't around
'cause you've been fading day to day
I've been moving town to town

If I could give all my love to you
I could justify myself, but I'm just not comming through
You're a pill to ease the pain of the stupid things I do
You're an anchor on the line for a clock that's out of time
That is running out on you.

If I could give all my love to you
I could justify myself, but I'm just not comming through
You're a pill to ease the pain of the stupid things I do
You're an anchor on the line for a clock that's out of time
That is running out on you.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 16:11:12 CEST 2001 from spider-ti014.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.179)

kat

karl- thanks for sharing your success with ordering the cds! amazing how fast you got it and so cool that you got a crowmatix single thrown in for free! please tell us what your thoughts are about the music on garth's first one. i have to wait another week before i can order one for myself.

ilkka- it's fun to see your posts. i enjoyed reading about the mountain you climbed and the singing. thanks!

Posted on Mon Jul 23 15:23:38 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Beatle Albums were released differently around the world. I believe in the U.S. it was "Meet The Beatles that came first." In Canada it was "Beatlemania." That famous black and white photograph of the four mop top heads that will forever be engrained in my mind. I don't know George Harrison personally; but like many Beatle fans we all kind of felt we knew them to a small degree through their music. I wish George Harrison and especially his wife, God's speed to whichever way the wind blows. One of the wonderful things that Mr. Harrison has.... is a deep spiritual quality in his thinking that I'm sure is bringing him some form of calm. God Bless you George from my small corner of the world.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 14:56:15 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp208.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.208)

Diamond Lil

AJR: Aah... I felt cooler just reading your last post. Winter, hm? Think you could send me a few blasts of that cold air? We're in another heatwave here. Yeah.. I know it's summer and all..but geez..hazy, hot, and humid is not my thing. Waiting for fall... 'another autumn night, it's getting chilly'...

Crabby: I would've replied to your anti-cigarette posts, but I couldn't read em through the thick smoke haze around my computer screen :-)

Thoughts of George Harrison and his family during this terrible time. I wish him courage and strength...

Have a good day everyone. Thanks for the lyrics Jan.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 14:32:15 CEST 2001 from leo.wwwcache.ox.ac.uk (163.1.103.121)

Karl Wallendszus

Regarding ordering from Breeze Hill: I ordered Garth's The Sea to the North (as well as Rick's Times Like These) on Thursday night. On Friday I got an e-mail from Breeze Hill asking me to confirm the order, which I did, and the CDs arrived by post this morning, including a Prof Louie & The Cromatix single which they have thrown in for free! Pretty good service, I would say, especially considering I am on the other side of the Atlantic. It certainly beats my one attempt to order something from Amazon.

I haven't had a chance to listen to any of the CDs yet, but I'm looking forward to tonight.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 12:45:57 CEST 2001 from du223-249.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.249.223)

The profane Ilkka

Jan has posted earlier today: "As a Linux user I am immune for these viruses..." I am glad to here that. At the same time I am very proud to tell that the father of LINUX operating system(s) is my compatriot Linus Thorvalds. It makes me even more proud to tell that Linus comes from the same rural coastal Swedish-Finnish region in Finland as my wife with a population of only few ten thousands. It makes me even more proud (if possible!!!!!!) to tell that she studied computer science in the same institute in Helsinki University as Linus.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 12:15:23 CEST 2001 from du161-3.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.3.161)

Saint Ilkka

My very best friend Ragtime's thread: "Richard Manuel lives on"

"Is the Trainee Angel Richard Manuel,
Is Rick playing The Harp Of Daniel?"
"I don't no but I've been told,
The streets of Heaven are lined with gold."

God bless you...or if you don't believe in Him (that's OK for me): Stay forever young!

Posted on Mon Jul 23 11:35:30 CEST 2001 from hoiberg.hiof.no (158.36.51.55)

jh

You Windows/MicroSoft users out there should probably take a look at this article about a couple of new computer viruses/ mail worms that may wipe out your hard discs. My Band mailbox is right now flooded with e-mails sent automatically by this virus, very many from the computers of people that I have been in touch with earlier.

As a Linux user, I am immune to these viruses, and I am not spreading them either. Some of you should probably check to see if you're infected, and remove all e-mails that starts out like this:

  Hi! How are you? 
  I send you this file in order to have your advice 
  See you later! Thanks

Posted on Mon Jul 23 10:30:33 CEST 2001 from (207.46.121.12)

Eric-Scott Bloom

This whole site, in its enirety, is something quite extraordinary. What a colossal effort by those responsible for its creation and maintenance!! Regarding the specific subject of Bob Dylan & The Band--in particular the uncanny collections of photographs and audio files--as I roamed through the utterly astonishing VASTness of the visual and audio compilations--my mind scowered the Language, desperate for a set of adjectives that would be even reMOTELY worthy of describing the absolute beauty of such a documentary. Words like "phenomenal," "protean," "seminal," and "quintessential" just seemed so sorely lacking in depth and scope. These words were perfectly acceptable, if used to describe the night sky; or perhaps, the feeling one might experience upon witnessing someone capture a bolt of lightning in a mason jar. But to describe the majestic sweeping fragrances arising from out of the potions that result when the Dylanesque festival of revolutionary hymns combine effortlessly with the rural restlessness swirling through the sound made by the joining of six mens' hungry-yet-not-starving souls, aptly called The Hawks, or, The Band.....I will have to go back to see and hear once again; and perhaps then, I might discover a few choice adjectives that have been in hiding all these many years, and which offer--generously--new kinds of meaning for an idea so many light-years ahead of The Times Immemorial...Thank you for a wondrous creation...God Bless...

Posted on Mon Jul 23 08:21:01 CEST 2001 from 1cust36.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.54.36)

Crabgrass

Due to the overwhelming response to my recent offer of a digitally altered jpeg photo of Robbie not smoking at the Hawkins recording session I am forced to announce that only 50 jpegs remain and will be e-mailed to those requesting them on a first-come-first-served basis. Good luck to those who told me that they planned to use it as part of their daily healing & meditation sessions in order to rid themselves of the harmful smoking habit. May Robbie provide a lasting inspiration to you!!

Life is short, but probably even shorter if you smoke.

And now back to the ever popular obituary/illness/prayer vigil threads...

Posted on Mon Jul 23 07:45:12 CEST 2001 from spider-wl041.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.36)

Tommy

In keeping with current events and threads here in the GB,,,,Willie Weeks played with George Harrison alot in the 70s.On at least three of his albums that Im certain about..Extra Texture,33 And A Third,and George Harrison.There might be more,but I'm not definite.

Also, I've been reading for the last few years about a new George album and a George Boxed set that are supposed to be coming out.WHEN!If the man isn't gonna be around anymore, at least we still have the music.(It's shitty to think that way, but it's life, right?)

Posted on Mon Jul 23 07:42:16 CEST 2001 from 203-79-98-190.tnt13.paradise.net.nz (203.79.98.190)

ajr

Poor George Harrison…I'm up for the chanting if it would help…

Last night I was glad I made the effort out into the torrential rain and cold (its winter here in the Southern Hemisphere) to see the new version of Elvis: that’s the way it is playing at a local film festival.

I haven't actually seen the original version but apparently it had some interviews. The new version is all music. It was fabulous. I never quite got the Elvis thing before but I'm just about ready to join the Church of Elvis now having seen this film. He was so charismatic- but he also came across as really likeable, warm, generous and down to earth as well and such a show man. And a great singer. And the shirts and the jewelry- oh my!

The audience actually applauded at the end of the film which doesn't happen that often. It made me think that all the spiteful things people have said and written about Elvis since his death, whether true or not, are really insignificant. A person who has that much talent and that much ability to entertain people taking them away from mundane, frustrating and frequently depressing everyday reality IS a special person. And such people contribute enormously to the overall sum of human happiness. Probably more than a lot of drab people who never err on the side of tastelessness or behave in ways that are less than exemplary.

Well that was my philosophical musing on the film. For a Band connection it opened with Mystery Train and now I really want to see TLW on a big screen. I'll reserve judgement till that happens but until then the TLW has been demoted to second place on my favourite concert films list.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 07:40:23 CEST 2001 from spider-tl041.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.191)

Lisa

Hello to everyone! I've been a Robbie Robertson fan for about 3 years now. I know alot of you have been around alot longer, so my respect is most sincere in greeting you. Robbie has changed my life. I know that sounds like cheese, but it's true. Listening to his music I hear not only his melodies & lyrics...but his WORDS and VOICE. Does that make sense? I hope it does. He has touched me deeply and I am PROUD to say that to ANYONE & EVEYONE. I'm glad I found this site to so so. And, if by some small miracle these comments are passed along to Robbie I just want to say, "THANK YOU". Be well and happy! Lisa.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 07:38:23 CEST 2001 from c5300-2-ip227.albany.thebiz.net (216.238.225.227)

'possum

Awww, go ahead and shout. I just tried it and found it helps a little, I guess. I apologize. Peace to Idaho.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 07:22:57 CEST 2001 from c5300-2-ip227.albany.thebiz.net (216.238.225.227)

'possum

HEY, IDAHO -

STOP SHOUTING! we know all too well these days.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 06:47:45 CEST 2001 from 1cust63.tnt2.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.25.9.63)

Hare Krishna George! All glories to you!

Posted on Mon Jul 23 06:43:30 CEST 2001 from 1cust63.tnt2.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.25.9.63)

Tony Furtado Band at Tribeca Blues ,Aug 2nd, you won't be sorry!

Posted on Mon Jul 23 06:41:46 CEST 2001 from 1cust63.tnt2.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.25.9.63)

Get a grip folks! We're all lookin down the barrel...........

Posted on Mon Jul 23 06:21:56 CEST 2001 from spider-wg021.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.26)

Bashful Bill

Just got back from a 4day visit to the Adarondack Mountains(Tupper Lake) where I closely perused my final reissue purchaces-MM and Islands.Got back into town tonite and saw LittleFeat for free, they didn't play Rag Mama Rag, but they played a Dead tune. Sad about George, I listened to a lot of Beatles stuff the last several days, also.I was goinbg to buy Garth's album, but I think I'll wait till next month, I'm hoping to get to his Bearsville show. I still haven't bought The Crowmatix Jams album either, so I'll grab em there. There is an upstate NY based musician(one of the Flashcubes, anybody remember them?)who has a couple albums, one of his songs is titled The Day Richard Brautigan Died. Now I KNOW a lot of you are familiar with Richard Brautigan.

Posted on Mon Jul 23 05:52:06 CEST 2001 from mplsdslgw10poold152.mpls.uswest.net (63.228.43.152)

P.S. 2001

i take that back. Willie plays on "The Breakers." I think...

Posted on Mon Jul 23 05:47:54 CEST 2001 from mplsdslgw10poold152.mpls.uswest.net (63.228.43.152)

P.S. 2001

Has anyone who has heard the new Garth c.d. noticed a connection between "Third Order" and any track from Miles Davis' "On The Corner"(mostly like "Black Satin")?Come on?Any Miles fans out there?That is one weirdly funky album. Levons solo on "Third Order" is pretty damn cool. Also-Willie Weeks plays on "Dark Star"!THE Wille Weeks. He played on lots of great soul albums, most notibly Stevie Wonder's "Songs In The Key Of Life." How did he and Garth meet?!

Posted on Mon Jul 23 05:38:52 CEST 2001 from 1cust76.tnt38.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.151.76)

Crabgrass

What? Lenny Bruce dead too? Jeez!!

Posted on Mon Jul 23 04:35:48 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti014.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.154)

Kevin Brown

So... I suppose that now the politically correct thing to do is demand the new DVD of TLW be edited WITHOUT all of the scenes that show Levon smoking?

Posted on Mon Jul 23 03:22:48 CEST 2001 from dialup-350.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.94)

Hank

I have'nt heard the song 'Richard Manuel is Dead' but it sounds like Adam Duritz took up on the idea of 'Lenny Bruce is Dead' by Dylan.....no more, no less......if it's a tribute to Richard, that's cool by me.

'My Sweet Lord' was the first song I learned how to play on the guitar.......Hare Krishna, George! We should start organising a big world-wide minute long Hare Krishna Chant for George to send him the vibes he needs at this time.....anyone up for it?

Posted on Sun Jul 22 22:41:56 CEST 2001 from spider-wm082.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.187)

javalina

my prayers go out to George Harrison. Followed the Gurus up to Newport this weekend, and it was worth the trip.Great club the Newport Blues Cafe, the Gurus were burning hot. Fri. night they had Jerry Dewitt with them and she is a tremendous addition to the show.The club had to turn on the lights to finally stop these guys from playing. thanks for the great weekend. Java

Posted on Sun Jul 22 22:13:24 CEST 2001 from p3ee077b7.dip.t-dialin.net (62.224.119.183)

Florian

I love your site! It contains a great deal of useful information.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 21:07:37 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tc011.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.151)

Joe

Praying for you George

Posted on Sun Jul 22 20:13:35 CEST 2001 from pm451-24.dialip.mich.net (204.39.226.82)

twilight

George Harrison - what a lovely man. A real hero. The song Richard Manuel is dead - along with the news that George is ill kind of fit together once you listen to the song. Truly amazing spirits.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 20:00:17 CEST 2001 from spider-wl072.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.52)

Tommt

...ahhhhhhhhhhhhh....

Posted on Sun Jul 22 18:59:37 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.214.108.158.dial1.boston1.level3.net (63.214.108.158)

Thalia

Does anyone have any information about how Levon is doing? I heard that he had throat cancer. Thanks.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 18:50:29 CEST 2001 from del-pm3-1-38.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.53)

Ann

Just read this at the MSNBC site:

The Mail on Sunday said Harrison had told his friend and former producer George Martin, dubbed the “fifth Beatle,” that he does not have long to live. Martin told the newspaper: “He is taking it easy and hoping that the thing will go away. He has an indomitable spirit but he knows that he is going to die soon and he is accepting that.”

Can we trust this report?

I couldn't have said it any better Bayou Sam...shit.

Thoughts, prayers and love to George Harrison.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 17:37:22 CEST 2001 from spider-wj053.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.43)

Donna

All my thoughts and prayers, go out to George Harrison, and his family during this most trying time.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 15:52:28 CEST 2001 from spider-we053.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.43)

Bayou Sam

That's spooky. I just went back to see the two posts that I did, and I saw Ann's post for the first time.

I kind of get the feeling that George is demanding total secrecy and is near the end. It's just a feeling I have.

It's so damn sad. Please pray for George everyone, that he either beats it, or goes without suffering alot.

shit.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 15:46:12 CEST 2001 from spider-we053.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.43)

Bayou Sam

I think the band Living Colour did a song called Elvis is Dead. It was about the exploitation of Elvis as I recall.

Did anyone ever see that "concert" that was touring where you had some live musicians from Elvis" band playing with Elvis on an enormous screen behind them? Now THAT was bad as far as I'm concearned. I don't think Elvis (or Marilyn) will ever rest in Peace.

All this dead talk is bumming me out. How about Living Colour? - does anyone else out there like these guys? I know they broke up, but they did some good music, and had some interesting things to say - IMHO.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 15:37:13 CEST 2001 from spider-we053.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.43)

Bayou Sam

Yes - Richard Manuel is dead - but I still like him.

I think Ragtime hit it on the head a couple of posts back.

Has anyone heard anything new on how George Harrison is doing?

Posted on Sun Jul 22 15:35:31 CEST 2001 from del-pm3-1-1.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.16)

Ann

Morning GBers. Just heard some disturbing news on CBS this morning. George Martin is saying that George Harrison is not going to get better from the latest bout with cancer and is just waiting to die. Anyone know anything at all about this?

Posted on Sun Jul 22 14:20:03 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp211.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.211)

Diamond Lil

Kevin: I had to read your last post twice to make sure I was reading it right. I love Adam Duritz' voice and am very intrigued to hear the tune you mentioned. Of course, my speakers are down at the moment, so that's not possible. I'm a bit wary of the title though. "Richard Manuel is Dead". Pretty tasteless. Ok.. it's blunt and it is a fact.. but I don't know.. it just kind of leaves a sinking feeling in my stomach if you know what I mean.

Anyhow..if anyone can listen and send me the lyrics, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Off to work for me. Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 12:59:00 CEST 2001 from schltns.demon.nl (212.238.41.164)

Ragtime

I would say "Richard Manuel lives on"...

Posted on Sun Jul 22 10:55:38 CEST 2001 from c5300-3-ip182.albany.thebiz.net (216.238.226.182)

'possum

Norbert- Does "onnauwkeurigheden" mean "storende fouten" which means "hallelujah" in english? Or are you offering the word "hallelujah" to something else all together? I realize that I'm showing my lack of language skills, but I am curious and would love to know.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 08:59:44 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-116-86.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.116.86)

BWNWITennessee

I'm just looking forward to hearing the song, "Adam Duritz Is Dead."

Posted on Sun Jul 22 08:47:13 CEST 2001 from 203-79-98-197.tnt13.paradise.net.nz (203.79.98.197)

ajr

Crabster- "Richard Manuel is dead" is certainly not a very original song title if thats what you mean by not good. Off hand I can think of two other similar song titles: "Timothy Leary's dead" which, I believe, Timothy Leary really disliked hearing while still alive and "Bella Lagosi's dead" The latter is a good one to play if ever you want to get aging goths out on the dancefloor. Its a sick, sad world. No wonder people take up smoking cigarettes and other unhealthy things.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 07:35:05 CEST 2001 from spider-wo053.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.43)

Donna

I have finally found a free moment to come in here and post. Wow! The sounds of silence, is something not to be take for granted. I am very late posting on the Barnburner's show in Toronto. G-Man, John D, and Amy Jo, did a fine job describing how excellant that show went, at the Silver Dollar. I did however like to comment on a post from a GB poster, who mentioned how disappointed he was that Levon was unable to sign any autographs after the show he had attended. This brought back the memory of when I first arrived at The Silver Dollar, and had the honor to see Frankie and Pat O'Shea, outside. I asked Pat and Frankie, how they were holding up, and both looked at me, and said they were ready and excited to play! Pat at that point asked if he looked like he was tired? I noticed the dark circles appearing under his eyes. I said that he did look a little beat. They went on to tell about the long drive and the a little trouble that they encountered at the border. I guess being musicians, border control felt the need to look through all their instruments. I did offer to lend them some of my Revlon cover makeup, to cover the circles, from their eyes. I never saw two guys run as fast as I did, when I started to fish through my pocketbook for my makeup.

In all seriousness however, I do understand that after playing Toronto, Windsor, and London, then onto another gig the next day. Well, let's just say that, extreme fatigue, must of set in by then! Levon, has alway taken the time to sign and talk to as many fans as possible. This is one part of his work that you can just tell, brings that great big smile to Levons face! If you were unable to see Levon after the show, I am sure that it must of been an off night, with much to do with how completely exhausted they all must of been that night.

Levon and Barnburner's played great that night in Toronto. You should of heard the crowd when they broke into "Mystery Train". The crowd was great! I did have the pleasure to meet Brown Eye Girl, and John Donabie. I also had a nice chat with Caroline Szelest, and thanks to John D, for pointing out Bill Avis to me. Amy Jo and Ray, it was a pleasure once again to see you both in Toronto, and then again in Windsor. Did you both stay for the whole show at The BluesFest? Levon and The Barnburner's, were first to play, that night, and G-Man, Donna, and I, were lucky to make it to the front of the stage during their performance. Chris, and Amy, were awesome when they sang, "Love To You". Pat, Frankie, and Levon, all on, and playing tight. Afterwards, I heard Jeff Healey, great band and they played for quite some time. The evening ended with "The Fabulous Thunderbirds". Now I know where they got the name Fabulous, Kim Wilson, played a solo harp for what seemed like half a hour, took a breath and went right into his vocals. The show ended, when I saw our Chris O'Leary, standing in the wings, and Kim Wilson, beckoned Chris on stage, where Chris played harp right along with Kim! What A Show! One of which I will not soon forget. Canada, was such a beautiful country, and I did not encounter one rude or obnoxious person, during my whole trip there. I look forward to going back very soon.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 05:31:04 CEST 2001 from 1cust8.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.57.8)

Crabgrass

Offhand I'd have to say that "Richard Manuel Is Dead" is a pretty lousy title for a song. But then, what do I know?

RR jpeg (rare photo of Robbie not smoking) still available - get them while they last!!

Posted on Sun Jul 22 05:29:22 CEST 2001 from spider-wb023.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.158)

Dave Z

Richard Wall: It will be interesting to learn how Garth and Louie will interact and play "The Breakers" live... I've seen Garth switch from accordian to synthesizer/organ/piano but I can't imagine how he can go right from accordian to sax or vice versa... Will Aaron also have an accordian strapped to him while he plays piano/organ?... and will they be switching around what accordian & piano parts each plays to accomodate saxs... or what?... I'd love to see Garth do a Mary Poppins type imitation of the Van Dyke/Bert character and try to do it all... but is that practical?... Switching gears, I guess you could take the weight sounding guitar as a positive nod to RR... and Levon's drum stuff is awesome... but are there any nods to Richard or Rick for us to discover?... "Sea of the North" has me thinking about NutCracker music at moments... and I can't help but compare "Third Order" to Robbie's "The Lights"... It's like hey, there are another set of lights out here we didn't notice before... I would also love to know if anybody has figured out any lyrics (or if you are even supposed to) to "Saga"... and what's the backwards stuff?... I am gonna shutup now for a while cause I don't see anybody else talking yet... It's just it's hard not to be excited... Goodnight...

Posted on Sun Jul 22 03:18:22 CEST 2001 from svcr-adsl-216-37-220-133.epix.net (216.37.220.133)

Kevin Gilbertson

"Richard Manuel is dead".

While searching some music newsgroups I came across the above title. Needless to say I dug deeper.

Apparently this is the title of a new Counting Crows song. They do not currently have an LP out so I don't know if it will be an 'official' track on a future LP or not.

I managed to track down a live MP3 of it and the lead singer (Adam Duritz) prefaces the song with a brief intro that Richard was one of his hero's and how he was saddened to read the account of Richard's death in his local paper some 15 years ago.

The song is about realizing how fast things come and go in one's life. I have not managed to make out all the lyrics but the songs a good listen. It's a recent (7-15-01) recording and is an audience tape so you have to listen closely. I have since located a better version but without the intro.

If anyone wants to hear the live track. Click on the following link:

http://home.epix.net/~kgilbert/Richard.mp3

Note, I can only keep this around for a day or two. After, that I could email it.

Jan, if you grab this song for the site, let me know and I'll delete the link. However, not sure what category you would fit this in to.

Note: the song is not really about Richard. More inspired by him.

Peace.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 02:09:41 CEST 2001 from hse-kitchener-ppp78614.sympatico.ca (216.208.52.25)

Maura

Thanks for the info J. I will keep ears and eyes peeled for any news on a Levon Helm CD. Chow Maura

Posted on Sun Jul 22 02:03:25 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

hallelujah......(or something like that)

Posted on Sun Jul 22 01:32:06 CEST 2001 from cl3030709-b.mdsn1.wi.home.com (24.183.0.216)

Tim(SUNDOG)Corcoran

"Nice photo Sergie of you and Levon!!! Hope everyone is having a wonderful summer!!! Peace thu music,,, --Tim

Posted on Sun Jul 22 01:23:28 CEST 2001 from p3ee075d2.dip.t-dialin.net (62.224.117.210)

Florian

Wow, what a great Site. It´s really fantastic.

Posted on Sun Jul 22 00:49:12 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-118-26.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.118.26)

BWNWITennessee

I woke up this afternoon, walked out into the driveway, and found Garth Hudson sitting in my mailbox! It was quite a surprise, let me assure you. Then I found out that part of his CD was recorded at the West End Methodist Church, a scant two blocks from my home in Hillsboro Village. Wonders never cease.

Posted on Sat Jul 21 23:15:04 CEST 2001 from as7-d23-sc-psci.psci.net (63.75.26.23)

Knockin' Lost John

Maura:

A while back, after seeing Levon & the Barnburners I too was confused about whether or not they had a cd out. I emailed Butch Dener, Levon's road manager, and he emailed me back.

Butch told me that the Barnburners do NOT have a cd out yet, but he added "hopefully soon". So, at least as recently as May, they did NOT have a cd out. later,

J

Posted on Sat Jul 21 22:57:25 CEST 2001 from dpwkrm7.lib.uwaterloo.ca (129.97.58.38)

Maura

Does anyone know if Levon Helm and the Barn Burners have a CD for sale? And where do you purchase it? I have looked all over Breeze hill and Woodstock records but no luck. Much thanks Maura

Posted on Sat Jul 21 21:44:17 CEST 2001 from spider-tp033.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.188)

Tommy

Thanks Robert Wall....I can't wait to hear the album in full.Get in there, Garth!!!

Posted on Sat Jul 21 21:12:21 CEST 2001 from 2cust118.tnt52.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.58.246)

Crabgrass

Okay - back to the smoking thread!! As some of you probably recall there was some controversy a few years back when the US Postal Service put out a stamp commemorating early bluesman Robert Johnson and had the cigarette dangling from his mouth in the classic photo used airbrushed out in order to portray Johnson as being more in line with prevailing present day attitudes. (Click on "Web Page" above to view stamp.)

Well, thanks to modern digital technology a more socially acceptable version of Robbie at the Hawkins recording session is now available in jpeg format upon request from me!! Hopefully, some of you nicotine slaves will be inspired to quit by viewing it - maybe even RR will request a copy and quit to ensure that there won't be any stamp issued with his likeness on it for a long time to come since a prerequisite for being so honored is that you must be dead.

Those checking the Robert Johnson link above might be interested in going to that site's homepage and checking other stamps and bios of other black musicians such as Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters, Sonny Terry, Bessie Smith, etc. Recommended.

Posted on Sat Jul 21 20:02:05 CEST 2001 from dialin-354-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.2.100)

Gene

"Wear out your welcome in here", Richard Wall? Yeah, right...fat chance!!!!

Posted on Sat Jul 21 19:39:10 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

what a week......Herman Brood leaves us......I get my ass kicked in the GB......Robbie smokes......and last but not least Lucky Luke (the lonesome cowboy) died!

that's enough!......to all the famous people of this world:......PLEASE DON'T DIE NEXT WEEK!...... ok? (or is that too much to ask?)

the light in the darkness though.....Nicky touring with Neil......there must be a God afterall......(gonna order Garth's CD now)

Posted on Sat Jul 21 19:08:05 CEST 2001 from 03-144.066.popsite.net (64.24.64.144)

Richard Wall

(I hope I'm not wearing out my welcome in here, but this is too close to home for me to let pass.)

Tommy: Good question about the production of Garth's CD. As the writer of the liner notes, I first heard rough mixes of The Saga of Cyrus & Mulgrew, Sea To The North, The Breakers and Dark Star last January at the mixing board in the control room of the studio where they were recorded.

As you might imagine, it was an afternoon of many revelations. My ears (and my mind) had never been so full of music, as expansive and powerful as any I had ever heard.

Well, of course, Garth and Aaron are consummate professionals, they took their time, and I think you will agree that they spot-on nailed the sound. To me, the production is perfectly matched to the music. Each song has its own aural depth and texture, with just enough open space to let all the detail through. I keep hearing subtleties I hadn't noticed before. Generally, I'd say there is an overall warmth akin to the sound of those audiophile jazz LPs that used to come out in the old days. I'm not quite sure how they did it, except that it involved a lot of hard work.

Of course, it's the music itself that really counts, but I agree that production can make or break a recording. I'll be interested to hear your impressions when you've received your copy and have given it a few spins. I promise your speakers and headphones a good workout.

It has been a real privilege to be involved in Garth's first solo CD. I hope we can all help spread Garth's magic by bringing it to the attention of someone who wouldn't otherwise hear it. The world needs some healing, and I know of no better remedy.

Posted on Sat Jul 21 18:37:24 CEST 2001 from sdu165-79.ppp.algonet.se (195.163.79.165)

Kent W

I saw a documentary a few nights ago on how 'The Band' was made and it's a great documentary. The album also of course is absolutely superb! Tremendously arranged, nice tunes and excellent lyrics. As far as I can hear this would be The Band’s best album. ’The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down’, ‘Up on Cripple Creek’, ‘When You Awake’ – give me a break. There are not many bands that can play much better, are there?

Posted on Sat Jul 21 15:55:40 CEST 2001 from spider-wi081.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.56)

Brien Sz

KLJ: I haven't seen the VH-1 special but i can tell you that you are probably right about the Levon footage..,Production companies often use previously shot footage from other specials/docs/programs to put together a new show. If it hadn't been used in the original program but looks very similar, it may be left overs from the same shoot. If you watch enough History Channel, MSNBC Investigates, E, Hollywood True Stories, Behind the Music, etc.., you will from time to time see the same footage pop up. It keeps the cost of production down.

As for the $32 dollars, well a Garth cd and a set of uncirculated 2001 State quarters will take up 32 bucks

Posted on Sat Jul 21 08:14:42 CEST 2001 from spider-ta071.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.76)

Dave Z

I can't sleep... got my first listen to "Sea" an hour or so ago... here's some first impressions... Track 1: People Get Ready meets Green Hornet... or Flight of Bumble Bee... and Maud is the Ginger Bread Lady of a Siren... Track 4: I'd like to hear Garth's Redboy... Retreat and retool Robbie... Track 5: Where's the bootleg hiding of all the JAM ottakes... Crowmatix should be recognized as best band in 5 years if they keep it up... Garth's vocals evoke spirit of Jim Morrison... if he were alive... 85... and came back with the intelligence of Jerry Garcia... Track 6: Lullaby... Piano bar at the Hilton in Heaven can't bring this... can feel a Malibu sunset... Track 3: The best (Q is right.. and delivers best customer service by the way... yeah Breeze Hill.)... Maud, if you get weird looks now when people start shaking your hand... it's because they will be trying to hide the fact that they recently made love to this track... Track 2: Luv the deep sounds... I'm thinking abandoned boat in tropical island... in a good Gozilla movie... just rockin' with breeze... Overall: yes, a sax CD and so much more... I can't wait to hear what others have to say about the CD which everyone is gonna be talking about... I just want it to snow now... so I can stoke a fire and watch the flames shadow my walls while I listen to this one again and again...

Posted on Sat Jul 21 06:48:12 CEST 2001 from as7-d142-sc-psci.psci.net (63.75.26.142)

Knockin' Lost John

Pat: The VH1: Behind The Music was actually called "Robbie Robertson & The Band" and it was about 90% Robbie and 10% The Band.

It was about two or three years ago, I think. Levon did appear in it, although I could swear that the footage came from The Band Video Biography. Don't know, but you didn't miss much. The special was generally a retrospective, akin to Robbie Robertson's Going Home Video. The parts with Levon just rehashed the "feud" thing, and in my opinion it unfairly portrayed Levon as a grouchy old fart!

On another note, today my wife and I got a letter in the mail from the IRS telling us how much our BIG George W. Bush tax refund is going to be. First of all, it own't be here until September, and when it comes it's going to be a whopping $32!!!!

How do you guys think I should spend it all?

Posted on Sat Jul 21 05:44:15 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-115-179.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.115.179)

BWNWITennessee

Peter: the "Down From The Mountain" movie and CD is from the original CD release concert that was held here in Nashville at the Ryman Auditorium back in May '00, hence the presence of John Hartford. A concert that, as I've mentioned before, I was lunk-headed enough to decide I didn't want to go to. The concert reviewed in Mojo and Rolling Stone was performed at Carnegie Hall a few weeks ago. They had talked about doing an entire tour with several of the artists, but it seems like that's probably off.

Before Crabgrass gets to it, Neil Diamond's new tour has been announced. No word on whether or not Robbie's going to be playing with him, or if Nicky L. will be the opening act.

Posted on Sat Jul 21 05:14:51 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.64.89.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.64.89)

Pat Brennan

Someone just posted on the Band newsgroup that VH1 had a "Behind The Music" on the Band. Did I miss something?

Posted on Sat Jul 21 02:29:51 CEST 2001 from spider-wl014.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.24)

Tommy

Hey folks....I just listened to some of the audio clips from Garth's CD.I can't really say much about the songs cause I'm only hearing a few seconds worth of stuff, but I can say that I like the production sound(especially the drums...there's nothing worse than a weak or obviously toiled-over drum sound).I was quite suprised that it sounded as good as it did.Nice and natural and heavy.I was expecting a more toned-down/adult contemporary sound.It's good to see there's still some nice heavy rocks in that mother!

To the people here who've heard the whole cd;,,,,What do you guys think about the production sound?Can you elaborate a bit more for your old friend Tommy?(Production is very important to me.....It can make or break a record, in my opinion.)

Posted on Sat Jul 21 00:02:02 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-098.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.98)

Peter Viney

The “O Brother” concert (not CD) is reviewed fulsomely in Mojo this month – it only took place on June 13th.

Just re-read Kevin Ransom’s excellent interview with Robbie & Rick and noticed an apparent contradiction by Robbie.

Kevin Ransom: What was your reaction to Levon's book?

Robbie: I didn't read it, because I heard it was a lot of sour grapes, and I thought, oh well, whatever. I've got too much else to think about for that kind of stuff.

Later:

Robbie: So, if you want to know why I didn't want to go on the road with these guys any more, and why The Band had become this pathetic, drug-infested, dysfunctional organization--and why I thought we should bring it to a conclusion--then read his book.

Ah, so had Robbie read it or not? Judging by the second comment he had. Likewise, he claims not to have read the Hoskyns’ book beyond the first 30 pages, but quite possibly had. I believe he later claimed not to have heard “Jericho” but can’t trace it. The diplomatic answer in this sort of situation is “I haven’t read / heard it.”

Posted on Fri Jul 20 21:38:30 CEST 2001 from (12.34.17.217)

Johnny Flippo

Mr. Powell, you do indeed rule. Thanks so much for the bait. As soon as that work whistle blows (or whatever the office equivalent is) I'm on my way out to purchase it. It is, as you alluded, the best bang for the cultural buck.

By the way, I think someone's stolen Matt K. Since when does the Matt we know and love send out two-word postings? WE (at least I) WANT THE REAL MATTK BACK!

Posted on Fri Jul 20 20:35:05 CEST 2001 from twhou-207-218-233-121.ev1.net (207.218.233.121)

Laura Holt Lorfing

Well hello guestbooker's! It's been quite a long time. Just wanted to say hello to everyone and thank all of you for the wonderful emails regarding the birth of my gorgeous son Rhett Thomas Lorfing! He was born July 3, 2001 at 1:16 pm and weighed in close to 10 pounds!! My thanks to Donna from PA, Cupid, Emy/B. Kolander, Jeff Newsome, etc. etc. I enjoyed reading your messages so much during my recovery. Oh..to Donna in PA..yes Rhett has seen TLW and has been introduced to many Band songs since his arrival. On those long nights he decides he doesn't want to sleep..TLW is put in until he nods off again! PEACE ALL! :)

Posted on Fri Jul 20 19:39:07 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.37)

Bones

I purchased two Garth Hudson cds using that phone number and it worked out great! The cd is available NOW, but it will take a couple of months to get to the stores. Needless to say.....I COULD NOT WAIT!

By the way, Garth Hudson has always been credited with writing "The Genetic Method". If you see it labeled incorrectly, then it is a record company printing error.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 18:49:15 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

DP rules

Posted on Fri Jul 20 18:17:49 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

"When the war was over -- the other war -- William Faulkner went back to Oxford, Mississippi. He had served in the Royal Air Force in 1918. Now he was home again and not at home, or at least not able to accept the post-war world. He was writing poems, most of them worthless, and dozens of immature but violent and effective stories, while at the same time he was brooding over his own situation and the decline of the South. Slowly the brooding thoughts arranged themselves into the whole interconnected pattern that would form the substance of his novels."

(--From the beginning of 1945 Random House edition of Malcolm Cowley's introduction to "The Portable Faulkner." Mr. Cowley's compilation helped to re-establish Faulkner's standing in the literary world at the time.)

In June of 1918, a 21-year old man from Mississippi, Billy Falkner, walked into a British Royal Air Force recruiting center in New York and signed up with the RAF, which was then establishing squadrons in Canada. Young Mr. Falkner, with romantic visions of becoming a war hero at the time, lied about his background by impersonating an Englishman, and changed his last name by adding the letter "u".

Mr. Faulkner spent the next five months attending RAF training classes in the Toronto area, continuing to pose an as Englishman. Much to his chagrin, the war ended on November 11, 1918, and he was discharged before he had even completed a training flight. Of course, when he returned home to Oxford, he had then reinvented himself into a veteran pilot, complete with a British uniform and the overseas cap he wore about town.

Some 42 years later, a young 16-year old punk from Toronto, Robbie Robertson, stepped off a bus in Fayetteville, Arkansas to hook up with Ronnie Hawkins, Levon Helm and the rest of the Hawks. This first trip to the South would forever change young Mr. Robertson's life by helping to arrange his own brooding thoughts "into the whole interconnected pattern that would form the substance" of the music he would write in the future.

What I'm leading up to here, in this roundabout manner, is to let you know that the 5th annual music edition of the OXFORD AMERICAN magazine is out on the newstands. For the unbaptized, this edition each year comes with a free CD compilation of music to go along with an issue devoted to articles about the music itself, much of it Southern-based in nature.

From the CD's opening cut, Mississippi Fred McDowell's "Jesus Is On The Mainline, to Tricia Walker's majestic "The Heart of Dixie", 21 tracks later, this is one great compilation of music, old & new, borrowed & blue. Highlights include Toots Hibbert's version of Otis Redding's classic "Hard To Handle", Victoria Williams' shimmering "You R Loved", Bob Dylan's haunting duet with Ralph Stanley on "The Lonesome River", the hard-to-find 1946 classic "What Would It Take" by the Delta Rhythm Boys (featuring Les Paul on lead guitar), Linda Lyndell's transcedent 1968 Stax/Volt single "What A Man", the 1974 Hi-Records hit "I Can't Stand The Rain" by Ann Peebles (what more can I say?) and the recent recording of "James Alley Blues" by David Johansen & the Harry Smiths.

Of interest to Band fans is the inclusion of Kevin Gordon's great duet with Lucinda Williams on "Down To The Well". Mr. Gordon co-wrote this song with Colin Linden, who "helped me edit the verses and come up with the chorus", according to Mr. Gordon. Emmylou Harris' version of Gillian Welch's "Orphan Girl" from the "Wrecking Ball" album is included on the CD. The magazine includes a fine article written by Rob Bowman on the rise & fall, fairy tale-like life of Linda Lyndell, "the one-hit wonder who helped save Stax [Records]".

Also included in the magazine is an honest, no-punches-pulled, review written by William Gay on the updated new edition of "This Wheel's On Fire: Levon Helm And The Story Of The Band".

What more can I say? If you love music, the 5th annual music edition of OXFORD AMERICAN magazine, with it's free CD included, is the best value around ($8.50 U.S. / $9.50 Canadian)!

Posted on Fri Jul 20 18:06:40 CEST 2001 from spider-tp062.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.202)

Dave Z

Just emailed in pics for the BB Mpls show...

And thanks to Richard Wall for the chat last night!!! Sent me spiraling afterwards to do web searches on... dowsing... Bob Cato's art work... various book titles... and our best exchange was when Lil' told me to "get a job and knock down my wife" (ya had to be there)... :)

Posted on Fri Jul 20 17:51:06 CEST 2001 from fw1.clari.com (204.141.88.254)

Richard Wall

My CD player doesn't have a reverse gear, but there actually is a backwards bit on "The Sea To The North," but I won't spoil the surprise.

Boy, Purna Das really wails! You sure don't get to hear a khamak player like that every day. Everybody plays HOT -- The Crowmatix, Levon, Michael and Scott from The Call, Willie Weeks, Larry Packer, Tommy Spurlock, Dan Brubeck, and especially Maud's vocals and, of course, Garth's utter magic everywhere. Great writing, superb playing, and a nice, warm sound too. Aaron's really got it down.

I guess you can tell, the whole thing just

knocks

me

right

OUT...

Posted on Fri Jul 20 17:29:41 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

mattk

Is it just me or does Willie Dixon's (as recorded by Howlin' Wolf) "I Ain't Superstitious" sound an awful lot like "Whole Lotta Love?"

Nothing to do with anything. Just something I noticed.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 17:11:12 CEST 2001 from (12.34.17.217)

Johnny Flippo

Thanks Messrs. Wall & Wigo! I finally got through, though I was dismayed to find out that orders are "processed manually." Hopefully, I'll get the CD before the September 11 general release. I'd like to hear from more of you who have the CD and have had time to digest it. Any messages when played backwards?

As a side note, Maude Hudson figured prominently in a dream I had last night. She made several appearances, and sang in most of them - strange, since I've not yet had the pleasure of hearing her. In my dream, she sounded like a cross between Ethel Merman and Patti Smith. My instincts tell me that this is probably pretty far off the mark. However, if it *is* the case, I'm here to tell you that it makes for some intriguing racket!

Posted on Fri Jul 20 16:48:19 CEST 2001 from fw1.clari.com (204.141.88.254)

Richard Wall

Johnny Flippo: The Breeze Hill site is apparently (and justifiably, IMHO) overloaded with orders for Garth's new CD. You can call (860) 567-2582 to order. Nothing beats the personal touch anyway, right?

It was nice chattin' with some folks last evening. I'll try to check in again tonight.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 15:42:05 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-068.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.68)

Peter Viney

Thanks, Brien Sz. “Down From the Mountain” – Has anyone bought it yet? The Guardian gave it three stars, but on re-reading the reviewer (Robin Deneslow) sits on the fence a bit. “Many Americans are so fed up with bad, bland country-rock that they want to get back to sturdy songs that have survived for decades.” He praises Emmylou Harris, Alison Krauss and Dan Tyminski (“strong performances”), but doesn’t actually say whether HE liked it. He does say “This live set will help edge this music further into the mainstream.” Makes you realize that The Band wrote NEW sturdy songs that sounded like they had survived for decades.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 15:29:38 CEST 2001 from (12.34.17.217)

Johnny Flippo

Richard from St. Catherine's: Great post! I haven't laughed that hard at something in the GB EVAH!

On a more sober note, is anyone else having trouble purchasing items on the Breeze Hill site? Apparently, my money's no good there.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 15:09:30 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

I notice Jonathon Edwards is playing Ann Arbor this weekend. Last chance to see him before the Rapture!

I just listened to "Planet Waves" again, and boy can that "Richard Manual" play the piano! Favorite moments:

"On a Night Like This": a counter-bass line doubled at the octave in the left hand. This provides all the momentum in this song that the drums fail to deliver. "Going Going Gone": the ascending chords in the verse - listen the beautiful attack he gives them; it perfectly matches the sense of resignation in the vocal. "Something There is About You": the intro - up with the left hand, down with the right. Then under the harmonica solo he plays a shimmering arpeggio - makes you feel like you're out at sea. "Hazel": he's actually playing a stride piano part in a ballad! What a cool thing to do! "Never Say Goodbye": Throughout the song he plays lots of fills in Garth's range, but with a lot more bluesy feel. Actually outshines the organ.

A lot of credit should go to the engineer, too. Richard must have been playing a great instrument, because the tone is really rich and resonant, and it was recorded really well to capture that. It's mixed well to blend with the other instruments too (although sometimes I wish it was higher in the mix).

For me, the piano playing is the best part of listening to this album. The rest of the Band seems like it wasn't at its best. The rhythm section mostly plays as unimaginatively as possible, and Robbie and Garth are constantly fighting for the same spot in the mix. To be fair, Dylan didn't actually, you know, rehearse with them or anything...

Am I the only one who thinks "Forever Young" is the biggest bottle of musical snake oil Dylan ever sold us? The enduring popularity of "Forever Young" and "Blowin' in the Wind" testify not only to the accuracy of P.T. Barnum's observation, but also to the fact that had Bob Dylan failed as a musician, Robert Zimmerman would have made a killing as a traveling salesman ("Motorpsycho Nitemare", anyone?)

Posted on Fri Jul 20 14:05:04 CEST 2001 from spider-wo083.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.58)

Brien Sz

Down the Mountain was released here a few weeks back to dismal reviews.., one reviewer (NY Post), who liked the movie O Brother, found DTM to have no charm and an utter bore. One star i believe it recieved.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 13:55:35 CEST 2001 from dialup-380.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.124)

Hank

Interesting comments all round about PODs and smoking........ North America is going thru one of its straight edge phases.....Can't get away from them Old Puritan roots......it's like one generation goes nuts drinking, smoking, having all kindsa sex....then the victims all die of nasty cancers and horrible genitalia scarring diseases and everyone lays off for a generation or two and then everyone loses it again......interesting.....Cases in point: The Gay 1890ies........The roaring twenties......The 1960ies-70ies.......Smoking is bad, no doubt about it....The Native North Americans revenge on the world, they say......Surprising that RR has'nt written a song about it yet using his POD......Apparently, Walter Raleigh was searching for some good marijuana and they gave him this tobacco shit instead.......Now, let's everyone look at that photo of RR again......what exactly IS he smoking?....that cigarette looks mighty thin to me.....also I like the way it was pointed out that RR was using a "non-pro" of The POD........

Sad to read about Mimi Farinas passing...........

Speaking of the whole fame and autograph thing.......Everyone knows that Bob Dylan is notorious for guarding his privacy and is generally freaked out by the approaches of fans.....I heard that in Killkenny he was driving thru what could be described as a working class area of the town and there was a bit of a crowd looking to get in at the security gate en route to the stadium and Bob rolled down the window of his limo and told the security guards to let these folks in for free.....also, he hung around backstage afterwards and chatted with everyone......could be that Ronnie Wood gave him a bit of cover......this is not to mention that he apparently walked the streets of Waterford at 2AM the night before.....quite a bit of a Bob Buzz in old Ireland lately.......I was trying to figure out why he stayed in Waterford.....the answer may well be proximity ot Liam Clancy....whom Bob respects and admires greatly...there would have been some session if Clancy was around, I'll tell ya.....I heard a story that in Tommy Makems Pub in Manhattan one night some guy was pestering Clancy to sing some obscure old ballad and Liam said "Ah feck it, I can't remember all the words....here, Bobby'll sing it for you"....and he gave Bob the guitar and Dylan sang this old song....whatever it was........Has anyone here heard a bootleg of Bob and The Band singing "The Auld Triangle"?........

Rick Danko was the KING of meeting folks after gigs and making them feel comfortable......and a friend of mine in NYC who went on the Blues Cruise thing recently said that Levon was totally cool with all the folks that came up to him.......the thing to remember about famous people is that, in most cases, what they DO is more interesting than who they ARE or how they SPEAK or whether they're great in bed or whatever..........

Posted on Fri Jul 20 11:34:51 CEST 2001 from (63.94.4.106)

debbie norvell

i first heard your music in the seventies,but just in last two years found out name of band.ive always loved the songs the weight,the night they drove old dixie down etc...im now printing the entire discography for future buying.the band & CCR are my all time fav's.im a "HUGE" music conesuer of "great" tunes. thanks for twenty-five + years of good, old fashioned "MUSIC" the way it was meant to be!!! debbie norvell.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 10:04:55 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-139.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.139)

Peter viney

O Brother fans: Just saw a review of "Down the Mountain" from "The Musicians of O Brother Where Art Thou" which is their very recent live concert. Can't believe it's out that quickly, but a review in Friday's "Guardian" generally means release the following Monday.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 07:53:48 CEST 2001 from 3cust4.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.56.4)

Crabgrass

I'd rather have my wind and energy too. BTW it was "Pearly Gate" not "Golden Gate" in Merle's song. Thanks to all who noticed the error and didn't point it out for fear of embarrassing me. Apologies to Merle!!

Okay, next topic - all you smokers can come back now.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 06:32:51 CEST 2001 from pm639-36.dialip.mich.net (207.75.182.46)

Jamie

Actually now that I think of it,I had a *major* RR experience. I had a smoke where the 12 year old JRR probably started smoking. I saw that movie at the old Bloor Cinema, not fifteen metres from the corner of Bloor and Bathhurst. Little did I know then that Robbie (or *Jamie* Robbie, as I like to call him)lived there in his youth, among the itinerant ragmen.

Seeing Carny at Bloor and Bathurst. (Saw the Last Waltz there too, a couple of times)

Like watching King Lear at Stratford (the Avon one)don't you think, (Or would you believe: listening to Shania Twain in Timmins?)

Posted on Fri Jul 20 06:08:36 CEST 2001 from pm639-36.dialip.mich.net (207.75.182.46)

Jamie

BMWIT:

I know what you mean. In my wasted youth I went to see Carny during my 84th attempt to quit smoking. (Or was it my 86th?)That attempt ended the second I got out of the theatre.

That movie had its flaws, but man, did Patch know how to make love to a cigarette.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 04:55:34 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tj024.proxy.aol.com (64.12.106.29)

Jay Ryan

About meeting Levon after a concert. I have had the pleasure twice. And he is the nicest star there is. Once in Woodstock and once in Schenectady.There I had Levon sign a jacket to my Big Pink CD.As for the Burners, Amy, Butch, and for that matter Garth they are all regular people and very very down to earth friendly. Hey Butch! Please get a show up here in Albany for us! Jay

Posted on Fri Jul 20 04:49:48 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.65.192.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.65.192)

Pat Brennan

btw, I've used that POD thing (both pictured and pro versions) like a million times and it is a godsend.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 04:35:20 CEST 2001 from host-216-76-149-191.bna.bellsouth.net (216.76.149.191)

BWNWITennessee

The label copy on albums can often have mistakes because it's usually handled by untrained, poorly educated, underpaid, self-important, blow-hard, ignorant, slothful buffoons. Trust me.

My old CD (kind of hard to believe that there are such things as "old CDs" already) version of ROA has "Carnival" split into two too (disc 2). My guess is that Robbie's behind that, somehow. Either that, or it's supposed to be a subliminable ;-) attempt to mimic a magician sawing a young lady in half, thus adding to the effect of a surreal carnival-like atmosphere.

Man, that picture of Robbie is really influencing me to go out and take up smoking.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 03:32:57 CEST 2001 from maxtnt-2-62.enter.net (208.137.245.26)

KZR

On my "Rock of Ages" CD, on Disc 2 "Life is a Carnival" is split into two separate tracks. It starts on Track 4, and then the last minute is played on Track 5. Track 5 also contains the entire "Genetic Method". Have any of you noticed it your ROA cd? How did that happen? Did Capitol screw it up?

Posted on Fri Jul 20 03:00:21 CEST 2001 from stcatherines-ppp109083.sympatico.ca (216.209.112.14)

Richard

Anybody else see this in the news?

RIAA Demands End to Unauthorized Humming, Whistling

San Francisco, Calif. -- After using the courts to keep Napster and MP3.com from freely distributing music over the Internet, the Recording Industry Association of America today asked a federal judge to stop people from humming or whistling copyrighted songs in public. The RIAA also asked for $300 million in damages from the estimated 22 million drunken men who think banging out the opening drum beat to "Wipeout" is a good way to impress women in bars.

"Anyone who publicly hums or whistles is disseminating copyright-protected music and thereby infringing on our artists' rights," said RIAA spokesman Janet Fogerty. "Also, we don't like it when the wind blows. It sounds too much like the beginning to Elton John's 'Funeral for a Friend.'"

Free speech advocates were outraged over the RIAA's action, but women generally applauded. "Most of the guys I know can't drum Wipeout when they're sober, let alone drunk," said Helen Kurtz, a 22-year-old from Manhattan.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 01:56:57 CEST 2001 from cr514777-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com (24.114.57.20)

Stanley Landau

Henry: I just pulled out my vinyl copy of Rock of Ages which I purchased the day it was released. It credits Garth as the only writer of the Genetic Method. I suspect that anything inconsistent with this on subsequent CD releases of the album had to do with record company errors rather than an attempt by Robbie to appropriate writing credits.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 00:47:50 CEST 2001 from m198214181246.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.181.246)

pehr

Crabby, good post. I dont think Picasso would wanna still be here. He went out pretty good the way it was. I dont think he'd be much interested in the art world nowadays, he'd probably be doin hip-hop,be a cubist rapper quit that painting shit.\

he'd probably take up smoking cigs with RR finding more nikkis and brittneys, playing with neat gadgets...

Posted on Fri Jul 20 00:22:20 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Crabby...I hope your kidding about the smoking. This is one site where I thought we could leave the political correctness outside. On another note I asked Levon Friday night if he missed his cigarettes. He said, "Nope....John D, I'd rather have my wind and energy.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 00:13:44 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

Ragtime:...... beste vriend!...... is dat zo? waarom dat gehakketak dan altijd? Maar zonder dollen, stuur eens een positieve email naar Ilkka. Doe dat nou gewoon eens en make this world a better place (zo veel moeite is dat nou ook weer niet). Hij zou het waarderen! (soms kun je dingen te ver doortrekken.). Het is namelijk een prima vent, en een vriend van me.

Posted on Fri Jul 20 00:04:21 CEST 2001 from 24.101.110.233.on.wave.home.com (24.101.110.233)

John D

Many years ago in the early '70's I interviewed Mimi Farina and Tom Jans who did an album together for A&M. We had a wonderful dinner together and I have never forgotten Mimi's charm, grace and great beauty. God Bless.....

Posted on Fri Jul 20 00:01:49 CEST 2001 from raindel.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.249)

Ann

Zero, Levon wasn't up for the meet and greet thing at the St. Louis show either...rest of the band was out and about though. We did get a chance to say hello while walking to our car when Levon & Frankie emerged from the club and he was very pleasant but also looked tired and ready to get going.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 23:32:03 CEST 2001 from schltns.demon.nl (212.238.41.164)

Ragtime

Norbert? Ragtime en Ilkka motte vriende worre? Ware we dat dannie allang? Heb ik wat gemist? Heb ik wat gedaan zonder uttuh merrukuh?

Ilkka my friend,what's up mate? How about rabbits and deers and meadowlarks?

Posted on Thu Jul 19 23:20:23 CEST 2001 from garco.cpe.newsouth.net (64.90.4.86)

Mike Carrico

It's certainly understandable that folks in the public eye are not going to be up for contact with their fans 100% of the time...I can only report that my experience with Levon at the BBs show here last year was quite positive. He was mingling with the crowd after the last set, and I managed to shake his hand and exchange a couple of words in the parking lot before he departed. He was friendly and gracious, although I sensed he was tired and ready hit the road.

Henry - my vinyl copy of "Rock of Ages", which I purchased upon its release in 1972, gives songwriting credit for "The Genetic Method" to one "G.Hudson"...

Posted on Thu Jul 19 22:18:05 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Jamie: Thanks for the clarification. I remember reading that Canada doesn't recognise surrender of citizenship "under duress" (e.g., so the surrenderer can become the citizen of another country), so even if you were to give it up to become an American, you could always get it back. Of course if you really want to give it up, the Canadian government won't force you to keep it.

The drug bust is an interesting point. Being busted for drugs in the '90s would have been nothing compared to being being busted for drugs in the '60s. So I suppose our guys were very fortunate to have been allowed back into the US at all following their celebrated troubles circa '65. As they say, the law's an (horse's) ass.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 22:29:42 CEST 2001 from spider-wi012.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.22)

Pac

Another loss -- Mimi Farina died of cancer yesterday. For those who don't know, she's Joan Baez's sister, was a great singer, endured the loss of her brilliant husband Richard Farina years ago, and went on to form the Bread & Roses nonprofit organization which is still strong in the area. Pack up your sorrows.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 22:07:07 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Re. Mr. Zero's experience???? Well, the crew just did 4-5 straight nites of travelin and playin, and Butch wasn't along!! Two security guards!!! Could be venue policy and out of the Barn Burners hands???? Never ran across that problem at any of the many shows???

Posted on Thu Jul 19 21:56:10 CEST 2001 from spider-ti011.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.176)

Dave Z

Now that I have recovered from the BB show... I thought I'd add a little something extra of context... First, thank you Levon for coming to Mpls!!! 2nd, Mr. Zero, you gotta admit the heat index yesterday in Mpls was 102 degree F... the Woody Harrelson looking bass player of the opening act "Front Porch Swinging Liquor Pigs" actually said on-stage "damn it's hot in here"... and later the lead singer changed the lyrics to one of his songs to say he was happy to shake Levon Helm's hand... by my estimate the opening act played an hour... Levon signed auto-graphs afterwards for about as long... And what's with the liquor pigs anyway... they had 7 guys... one playing a wash board and another playing bones that I joked to Pete probably came from ribs he polished off outside on the food patio... which brings up a re-collection... I think Levon initially tried to head outdoors where he could have sat at a table presumably... but the Cabooze was cleaning up that area... and nothing else was setup... so on the fly I watched the horde of seekers change directions a couple of times... and during the whole time after the show I was there... the rest of the band was 10-20 feet away from where they were jammin'... I was impressed that Chris knew our local band Lamont Cranston... I still have a picture in my mind of Chris's harp on a long wire hanging around his neck during the show... And it was so hot that Amy resembled Sigourney Weaver at times to me... and Frank resembled a shy Tony Danza... Levon still reminds me of my Grampa at times too... who looks like Popeye... after a particularly exciting song I vaguely relived a memory of "quit shaking my hand so hard Grandpa you're hurting me"... anyway, I felt priviledged to see the band... Thanks again... If you are lucky enough to see the BBs pass through your town... do yourself a favor...

Posted on Thu Jul 19 21:34:56 CEST 2001 from pm638-37.dialip.mich.net (207.75.181.239)

jamie again

Perhaps Jonathan Edwards of London Ont. can help us out here. (Though "Bassists in the hands of an angry INS" doesn't flow nearly as well.}

Posted on Thu Jul 19 21:26:01 CEST 2001 from pm638-37.dialip.mich.net (207.75.181.239)

jamie

Bill - As I understand it, the dual citizenship situation is more complicated. If you are born a dual citizen (my son and daughter, for example) you no longer need to renounce the other one when you turn 18. You can retain two passports, so far as the US is concerned.

If you are taking out American citizenship as a foreign national, you still have to take an oath renouncing all other allegiances, etc. I gather that the difference nowadays is that the authorities no longer really check or care, so there are many people who have retained their Canadian passports anyway, without any fuss. But (or at least this is what I was told when I asked) you really aren't supposed to.

Though now that I think of it, if Rick wasn't a dual citizen, he might well have had difficulty continuing to enter one of the two countries after his Japanese adventure. Those of us who have green cards (which are actually blue)have to always bear in mind that the INS has essentially unfettered discretion to bar you from entry, and if you commit a drug offence, well, you'd better hope you can hire Keith Richards' lawyer.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 21:18:56 CEST 2001 from reedsmit-gw.customer.dsl.alter.net (206.114.232.139)

henry

I previously commented that the height of Robbie's conceit for song writing credits is for "The Genetic Method" on the original "Rock of Ages". He was credited as the sole songwriter for that song on that album. The remastered version now gives Garth a co-writing credit.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 21:16:10 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

According to someone I know, Levon plays harmonica and mandolin on the new Pete Sears cd, which has been released this year. Does anybody know anything about this???

Posted on Thu Jul 19 21:08:58 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

Does Robbie really smoke? damn! (hope he doesn't drink drink drink too!). Jan, please remove my happy birthday whishes from the 5th of July!

Pat Brennan: it's ok man, crack a cold Heineken from me!

Good to see Illka and Ragtime posting together......(wordt het niet eens tijd weer vrienden te worre? 't leven is al kort genoeg en rotzooi is er ook al genoeg)

Want to hear some Band related music samples? RIGHT NOW!!! just click on the web page above......

.....Brown Eyed Girl......welcome back!......

Posted on Thu Jul 19 21:04:09 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Being a charitable soul, I'll suggest that one of Levon's contingent may have been trying to protect Levon's vulnerable throat. The less talking the better - and if that means keeping a natural gabber away from would-be gabbees, so be it.

On another subject, Robbie Robertson mentioned that the Band had recorded "Georgia" as their way of showing support for Jimmy Carter - given that they, as Canadians (and not US citizens), couldn't vote. As I understand it, the US now - but not then - recognises dual citizenship, so even if the Canadian Banders had subsequently taken out US citizenship, they'd still be (or could choose to be) Canadian citizens as well.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 20:48:28 CEST 2001 from user-33qtan6.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.170.230)

Pat Brennan

Concerning celebrity encounters: please run down the Little Feat boot Wheelin' and Dealin' and listen to Lowell George's moment with Howlin' Wolf. As it is historic in nature, I'll refrain from paraphrasing, but if demand justifies the effort, I'll transcribe it for the gathered.

Nothing like a dab of Jonathan Edwards to make the day brighter.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 20:36:42 CEST 2001 from mnmed.org (208.47.74.133)

Mr. Zero

Mr. Viney: Thanks for your ideas about approaching the “famous.”

As I stated in my post, I understand that a greeting/autograph afterward is not a right.

However, when I observed all this at the concert, it made me think.

Why should Levon do a post-concert autograph session at all if he didn’t want to do it? I guess I view the way it happened as he was going half-way.

I do feel it’s kind of demeaning to have fans wait in a line and not even have the courtesy to look or interact with them. (At least, he doesn’t charge for autographs like some sports figures).

As is the case with most bands that play stadiums, he could have just climbed on the tour bus and left.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 20:35:28 CEST 2001 from pm638-37.dialip.mich.net (207.75.181.239)

Jamie

Peter:

I hope that last message didn't sound snide - It was just a feeble attempt by an amateur reader to banter with a professional. Also, of course, I rarely pass up the opportunity to be an erudite horse's erudite derriere.(Though, believe it or not, I do often read Edwards for pleasure, if the kind of rapt fascination that keeps people's eyes gripped to traffic accidents can be called "pleasure". Something about his long, intense, loving description of the torments that await me in perdition is hard to put down. No doubt something inadequate in my early toilet training is to blame.)

Can anyone address BWINT's question: "Okay, here's another trivia question - one I don't know the answer to. I assume that all of the Band have become American citizens at some point. Anyone know when?"

As a Canadian expat pathetically clinging to my citizenship as the years down below slip by I am kind of hopeful that I'm not alone. {"What - marry an American and give up Canadian citizenship too? - No way man, I saw what happened to Phil Hartman when he did that."}

Could Garth really have jumped ship?

Posted on Thu Jul 19 19:29:27 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-094.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.94)

Peter Viney

Mr Zero: opinions on approaching the “famous”. Levon, as so many have testified here, is generally unstinting in giving time to his fans, more so than almost any artist of comparable stature. But let’s be fair, no one can be “up for it” all the time. We don’t know whether that famous person is busting for a crap after a show (to give an inelegant example), or just exhausted. Fans can be hurt by lack of regard, and greatly-loved performers are usually pretty careful. I spent three summers working backstage at shows in the 60s, and while both Tom Jones and Frankie Vaughan were generous with their time 95% of the days, NOBODY is in the mood 100% of the days. I once did lights on a Sunday show for The Shadows. Like everyone who painstakingly learned to play “Foot Tapper” or “Apache” note by note, I was thrilled to see the legendary Hank B. Marvin and Bruce Welch leaning against a wall in the corridor. This was 1967, and they were past their most successful era. So I was standing there waiting for instructions from the Stage Manager, and managed to stammer out “I used to try to learn all your stuff. It’s a real honour to be doing lights,” (or some such showbiz bullshit). The great Bruce stared at me, and said “Piss off, sonny.” He didn’t have to. “Thanks.” or “Uh huh” would have sufficed and still ended the conversation. I’ve always thought of them as total arseholes since, which might also be unfair. I’d also be wary of approaching the famous until they give some kind of body language signal. I once had breakfast at the next table to Richard Dreyfuss who was totally absorbed in his conversation. Everyone in the room respected that. No one approached him. A few times I’ve almost bumped into famous people in London in the street. There’s a kind of embarrassing pause, because you recognize them, automatically nod a greeting without actually working out who the familiar face belongs to, then realize that of course they don’t know you. Most smile graciously and nod back, because it must happen all the time. Going back to Levon, in that after show situation I’d be genuinely thrilled if he did have time, but would not have any expectation that he should have time. Doing the show is what you’re entitled to expect. Greetings afterwards is a bonus, but not a right.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 19:21:44 CEST 2001 from wwwcache.lanl.gov (128.165.156.80)

Voice of experience

Re: Mr. Zero's disappointing experience last night. . .

Famous people, from rock starts to politicians, often do great one-on-one with their fans/constituents, but aren't good at triage with large groups of people who all want a word or an autograph or a hug or whatever they want. They do best in those situations when there's someone around who is good at balancing what everyone wants and needs and when they need it.

Unfortunately for Minneapolis fans, Levon's chief of staff stayed home this trip. The fans miss you, Butch. . .

Posted on Thu Jul 19 19:18:03 CEST 2001 from dialin-1254-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.5.238)

Gene

Peter - At least old '209' gets your name right. Best wishes, Gene (one 'n', please)

Posted on Thu Jul 19 18:49:47 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-163.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.163)

Peter Viney

209.167.110.172. You carry on old friend. I really don’t want to come out and play today. Many of us appreciate your photos, and you have forty years of knowledge about these guys that would make you worth listening to if you used your own name and tried to conduct an adult debate. As it is, you’ve now decided to have two names. Appropriately. As your namesake said:

“I had great and violent inward struggles, till, after many conflicts with wicked inclinations, repeated resolutions and bonds that I laid myself under by a kind of vows to God. I was brought wholly to break off all former wicked ways and all ways of known outward sin; and to apply myself to seek salvation.”

(The real Jonathan Edwards, “Personal Narrative”) I never thought I’d ever have to quote him again. But that’s who I thought that you thought you were this time round. Follow his advice. It’s well-written (OK, Jamie, you’re right).

Posted on Thu Jul 19 18:46:30 CEST 2001 from raindel.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.249)

Ann

I thought Jonathan Edwards was a singer...guitar player...shanty momma...sunshine...hmmm. Are you guys trying to confuse me?

Posted on Thu Jul 19 18:41:09 CEST 2001 from fw1.clari.com (204.141.88.254)

Richard Wall

Greetings Good People:

I had the pleasure of writing the liner notes for Garth's CD, "The Sea To The North," and was gratified to find that the Breeze Hill site was apparently overloaded for awhile this morning. Good going! The CD can also be ordered by phone at (860) 567-2582. Ask for June - she's real nice and will take good care of you.

I'll try to stop by Jan's chat room in the evenings this week to share a story or two. I hope to meet some of you there. Feel free to e-mail me if you like, and enjoy Garth's great music!

Posted on Thu Jul 19 18:33:43 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

That Robbie is such a bastard. Who does he think he is, smoking a cigarette and playing through less-than top-end gear. Sheesh. This MUST prove he's a thief. I don't know why I didn't see it all so clearly before...

Posted on Thu Jul 19 18:21:19 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

I believe that all of Robbie Robertson's homemade gadgetry in the early days was made by his boyhood chum, Pete Traynor, who was also in the Suedes and other pre-Hawks aggregations with Robbie. He eventually made a name for himself designing and making "Traynor" amps.

Is an "erudite horse's derriere" the back end of an erudite horse (Mr Ed, for example), or the erudite back end of an average horse? And is the horse's, or back end's, erudition relative to the intelligence of an average horse or an average back end, or relative to the intelligence of an average human (one - or two - of us here, for example)? The latter would be more impressive, in my view, but why does everything have to be so damned complicated?

Posted on Thu Jul 19 17:51:41 CEST 2001 from schltns.demon.nl (212.238.41.164)

Ragtime

I just have to tell anyone! Today I strolled into a small lp/cd-fair in my provincial Dutch hometown and found the "Ophelia" bootleg, recorded from a Washington gig in 1976, not long before The Last Waltz. Remarkably good sound and great playing and singing. King Biscuit has surely come.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 17:50:09 CEST 2001 from du235-1.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.1.235)

Ilkka

To celebrate “Saint Jean” all alone in silent contemplation we climbed on an isolated mountain top. When we came up we realized that we were not alone. We heard a heavenly song. Four young people, two boys and two girls, were standing on the top facing the valley. They sang medieval Provencal songs in an incredible professional way. I didn't understood the words but I had an idea what it was all about and I surely recognized the tunes: a lot like the Nordic “Piae Cantiones” as sung by the traveling students for 500 years ago. I remembered the words in the Holy Book: “Who shall go up into the mountain of the Lord, who shall stand in His holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart.” - Only the whining Mistral wind in our ears we shared a silent prayer with the youngsters up there on that sacred mountain top before it was time for us to go back to the valley. We left them behind us - now joking, laughing, flirting like the young people have always done on the longest day of the year when anything can happen.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 17:29:49 CEST 2001 from 1cust149.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.54.149)

Crabgrass

I had the good fortune to see Merle Travis sing (and Travis pick) "Smoke, Smoke, Smoke" during a free out-of-doors concert at Lincoln Center back in the late 70s which featured various country and bluegrass artists. Although humorous, the song was probably the first public warning that smoking is harmful.

Smoke, smoke, smoke that cigarette

Smoke, smoke, smoke it

if you smoke yourself to death

Tell Saint Peter at the Golden Gate

that you hate to make him wait

but you just gotta have another cigarette.

My personal opinion is that Picasso would still be alive today if he'd quit smoking in his 60s. It's never too late to quit!!

BTW I've noticed Levon's chewing gum these days.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 17:28:59 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Hank pointed out something of interest regarding the picture of Robbie Robertson during the Hawk's recording sessions. For those not afflicted with the techno-geek factor that comes from playing the electric guitar or other electronic instrument, to which I'm embarrassed to admit I've succumbed to at a certain level -- Mr. Robertson is pictured with a Line 6 POD (and a non-pro model at that!). This device enables the guitarist to "dial in" a wide variety of effects and tones. It can even be used for direct recording, without an amplifier. One would hope, that in this case, the results don't sound like they were "dialed in".

Posted on Thu Jul 19 17:05:46 CEST 2001 from mnmed.org (208.47.74.133)

Mr. Zero

This story might seem a bit depressing but I thought it might make an interesting discussion topic.

Like Dave Z, I was also at the Minneapolis show last night. (Did anyone notice that they spelled Levon’s name wrong on the tickets?) The group was solid -- Levon’s drumming gave every melody a strong sweep. I wish Amy Helm did more singing.

One factor that truly disturbed me was how the evening ended – Dave Z mentioned it. After a brief encore, Levon waved to the crowd and high-tailed it to the back of the club.

After 10 minutes or so, I strolled back there to see what was going on. I was just curious.

Levon was in a back room while a crowd of about 15 people waited at the bar near the door to that back room. They were all caring assorted books or Band albums. Two security guards were posted to keep people away from the door.

Levon wasn’t coming out but you could hand the security guard the stuff you wanted signed and he’d sign it, but you never saw anything.

Myself, I had hopes of maybe just meeting the man -- which means saying hello, shaking hands and saying thank you. That’s it. No autographs etc.

But this whole incident really disturbed me. First, I’ve never encountered something like it. I had mixed feelings about it.

I completely understand that famous people get pestered constantly for things or people want more from them than they can give. Getting bombarded with questions about Rick or Richard or Robbie from a bunch of drunks isn’t my idea of a good time. Maybe another reason it was done was to expedite the whole process so that everyone could get what they want signed.

But I guess I also found it kind of insulting. You're supposed to wait in a line, get something signed and then go away. This is a weird analogy: It’s sort of like when you’re a kid and you’re waiting to sit on Santa Claus’ lap at a department store. But Santa is sequestered in an igloo and you can leave your Christmas list with the elves or something.

It got me wondering if saying hello -– trying to express your appreciation or admiration etc. -- is an intrusion and best to keep to yourself. Or is it something a famous people truly appreciates? Would it have been better if you had an encounter with a famous person to just ignore them?

Opinions?

Posted on Thu Jul 19 16:28:25 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

By the way, is it "Jonathan and Darlene" or "Darlene and Jonathan?" It's bad enough you've developed a split personality, but could you at least be consistent about them? Sheesh...

Posted on Thu Jul 19 16:22:20 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Ever notice the IP address of these unwarranted attacks on Peter always originate from ISPs up in London, Ontario? You'd think Serge would have better things to do with his time - after all, summer is awfully short up there.

Talk about tedious. Or should I say "a tedious?" I don't know how to write in nutjob-ese.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 16:07:09 CEST 2001 from (209.167.110.172)

Darlene and Jonathan

Sorry ,we meant to say an "erudite horse's derriere" or an "erudite idiot".

Posted on Thu Jul 19 16:00:42 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Hey Dave Z......So what your sayin is ya'd see them again? Heh, heh...they are somethin!! Rock the roof off!!

Posted on Thu Jul 19 15:14:25 CEST 2001 from spider-wi073.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.53)

bob wigo

The word "erudite" is an adjective. You cannot be an "erudite". You can, on the other hand, be an idiot.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 13:17:05 CEST 2001 from (209.167.110.161)

Jonathan and Darlene

Mr Viney you fool. Jonathan and Darlene Edwards were really Paul Weston and Jo Stafford, who recorded a couple of tongue in cheek albums in the 60's, where Weston fumbled on the piano and Jo Stafford sang out of tune. But Oh NO! You had to dig into some obscure corners of American lit. to show us what an erudite you are. You horse's derriere.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 12:47:59 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp241.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.241)

Diamond Lil

Rod: The postponement (doesn't look like I spelled that right) of Garth's cd being available in _stores_ was done for promotion reasons. It _is_ available now to anyone who wants to purchase it through the Breeze Hill site www.breezehill.net

As someone who is lucky enough to already have the cd, I recommend it tremendously. I'm not nearly as eloquent as John Donabie and wouldn't even attempt to improve on the words he's written about "The Sea to the North", so I'll just say I love it and have been listening to it whenever I get the chance. It's music for the soul..soothing and exciting all at the same time.

I hope everyone had the chance to check out the new page Jan put up, depicting the art work for the cd..done by my dear friend Maud Hudson. Wonderful job Maud..I'm proud of you!

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 12:23:32 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-064.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.64)

Peter Viney

Bob: Thanks for those trawls from the archives. Those of us with old dial-up connections like me are saved a great deal of time. The phone conversation is one I remember well, as being written with style and wit and being fictional, I think it caused a fuss at the time. Interesting review of the “last” (?) show too. The decline and ending of the Band (the “This Band” or 90s Band) from 1996 to 1999 is one that we skirted around here as it happened in front of our eyes, and no one has ever assembled the actual story, though we can guess bits and know a few things here and there. I guess the whole story will have to wait ten years. There’s actually not much consistent live stuff after the summer Europe / Britain / Ireland 1996 tour, is there? The tour wrecked them with the British critical establishment – the magazines, that is. They were superb at Cambridge, then totally blew it at the Forum the next night, and on Greater London Radio, then on the first Dublin date. Reportedly they were fantastic again on the second Dublin date, though I haven’t heard a tape of that one. There were scattered US dates later, but not a lot. I suspect that unknown to most of us it was really ending about that time, and we, and maybethey, refused to recognize it. Reading the description of Rick looking univolved in New Orleans reminded me of how he looked uninvolved, or frankly very, very bored, in stuff like “Willie & the Hand Jive” in 1996. He looked as if he were barely tolerating it rather than participating in it. In contrast he was totally on the ball for his own songs. Look at the number of guests on “Jubilation”, another marker of dissolution of the “group” I think.

Jamie: My reply about Jonathan Edwards was really directed at the anonymous thief of the real one’s name rather than meant as considered criticism, and I readily confess that I didn’t revisit the real one’s work before commenting. In fact having spent far too much of my younger life immersed in Edwards and his tedious ilk, I was delighted not to do so. I felt this at the time: Jonathan Edwards is a writer who is on various Am Lit syllabuses only because he’s American and lived when he did. There was no competition. Had he lived anywhere else, he’d be a totally forgotten minor footnote “ranting clerics- 18th cent.”. An example of his snappy titles: “A Faithful Narrative on the Surprising Work of God in the Conversion of Many Hundred souls in Northampton and the Neighbouring Towns and Villages.” I just had a two minute glance (couldn’t take more) and I’ll grant you that he writes far more gracefully than Ebenezer Cooke (the basis for John Barth’s “The Sot-Weed Factor”), but is far less entertaining. I reckon AmLit courses could and should dispense with just about everything before Washington Irving / Fenimore Cooper. It’s the old attempt to teach literature in strict chronological order that stultifies so many courses, leading to this struggle to fill the gap between the Mayflower and the first readable writers early in the 19th century with anything that was printed. The stuff that IS interesting (Franklin, De Crevecouer) is interesting for social and historical reasons, not as literature.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 12:16:53 CEST 2001 from schltns.demon.nl (212.238.41.164)

Ragtime

Don't worry, Pat Brennan my friend

I know you long enough to be sure that you never have the intention to insult. Zeker weten.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 10:19:57 CEST 2001 from spider-te053.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.198)

Dave Z

It's about 3 am Mpls time... but I'm not tired at all...

Levon: Thanks for coming to Minneapolis!!! Thanks for the Music!!!

And thanks to the two cute GB “Lurkers” for saying Hi... You should post sumpin’... I envy the Chicago trip you took to see the BBs... and G-Man and your Road Warriors... I honestly don’t know how you do it... The Barn Burners start out fast going uphill and they never slow down... Frankie refueled with a cig... and Amy went for the water bottle here and there... but in the end Levon would not let them stop... just when you thought they were done during that last tune... the drums would start up... band members would smile... on and on four times maybe it went... Awesome show!!!!

It all kicked off with the harp... very strong from a guy who looks like a buffed Nick Faldo... and a fast moving guitar hustler... all athletics... theatrical... pros... later these two guys would find their zone... and the band kept getting... better and better... I also noticed everybody "bobs" to the beat of the drums... even while in the midst of an early guitar solo... like it keeps ‘em on task I guess until the groove is gelled and attention fixed... the bass booming throughout... in fact, the only thing slow all night was Amy’s hands moving together as if to wipe off butter... that slow...

And almost immediately she was front and center... for at least half the show it seemed... and you can "book it"... she is a star... Miss Amy sounded almost gospel... and the duets with Chris have to be seen live... reminds me of the live interplay of Crowmatix vocalists which I didn’t detect so well on 1st CD until I saw them live... Pat even sang at the end with Amy during the intros... and after a kick of his foot blistered a solo... then it was Chris’s turn during intros to give us the harp... and I thought intros were just to inform us of correct name pronunciations after the band was done and tired...

I kept out a sharp eye out to see when it would happen... cause I knew it would... and then I got distracted... lost... the lights dimmed and it was a duel or rather a dance of harp and drums... with the harp sounding like drums too at times... co-mingling... and then Mystery Train materialized in my recognition... and after a moment of intense playing midway therein... it happened... both Amy & Levon first glanced at each other... both are pros... drummer’s head down playing for the music at times... fellow GBer Pete Rivard made a point to get up and come over to me to say "Did you hear Levon’s fills" or something to that extent following the song... I also got to meet Pete’s kid and help celebrate his 21st birthday... I even showed them a wallet picture of my new baby girl it was that kind of night at our table...

Wang Dang Doodle... gospel singing!!! easily my favorite song at the time... an important qualifier as it was early... they wore me out... and I caught a couple mentions by Chris of the new CD... and even titles... King of the Jungle... Walk That Walk (awesome!!!)... just awesome stuff folks... and Shake a Leg... followed by another Amy to Levon look... almost like they both had just run some rapids... and paused to check that the ride was just as fun for the other as themselves...

I had a plan when I showed up... get in get out... one picture with Amy if you are lucky... well, I got to thank Frank, Chris and Pat in person... but Levon was wisked away to sign autographs... I waited an appropriate amount of time just to show respect... I figured his blues were a sundance for us... and then I just missed Amy after she left when there was a break in the action... bad timing... I could have approached her later when she was talking to a small group of other women... but they looked too relaxed and I didn't want to impose... so I’ll just finish up here and say it now... thanks Amy and Levon... for coming to Minneapolis... Thanks for the music...

Posted on Thu Jul 19 09:38:36 CEST 2001 from spider-wa082.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.57)

Tommy

No Rod, we're not interested....

...WE'VE ONLY BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE CD FOR MONTHS NOW!!!!!

(sheeeesh)

Posted on Thu Jul 19 06:52:34 CEST 2001 from ch8smc.bellglobal.com (206.47.244.58)

brown eyed girl

Lovable smile and performer on July 13 in Toronto

Energetic.....E = MC2.....Energy equals motivation, commitment and clarity

Very talented

Original Band and Barnburner member

Natural musician who never wants to stop entertaining his fans

Posted on Thu Jul 19 06:17:17 CEST 2001 from cf3k-3.lqy.tsnz.net (203.98.21.43)

Rod

Does anybody know why (or is anybody even interested) Garth's CD has been delayed for 3 months?

Posted on Thu Jul 19 05:44:41 CEST 2001 from (141.211.54.38)

Jamie

Peter:

First "Acadian Driftwood" and now this... I grant you that Jonathan Edwards (the real one) writes apocalyptic nonsense, but "worst of the 18th century writers"? "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" is about as well written as apocalyptic nonsense can be!

(By the way - sorry to revisit the Pittsburgh thread that got some folks vexed, but I thought I should recommend a couple of articles to you. A piece in the New Yorker (in the first few months of 1989)by Brendan Gill is a very informative and glowingly positive essay on Pittsburgh's architecture, physical setting and general interest as a city. Makes a good case for visiting.

Then there is H.L. Menken's "The Libido for the Ugly" which is reprinted in many Menken collections. It is an *extremely* funny rant about what a god-awful thing Pittsburgh architecture is. Well worth repeated readings just for the joy of Menken at his most acid.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 04:40:21 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.208.68.191.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.68.191)

Pat Brennan

I thought I might mention the passing of an old, dear friend of mine, Mark Hannon. Affectionately know around Chicago as the Blues Cannon, Mark was an absolute joy. A walking encyclopedia of the blues, he actually made the front page of Chicago newspapers back in the 60's when his band, The Dirty Wurds, were accused of performing profane songs. He detoured from R&R and dove into the blues, leading groups in the Chicago blues clubs for thirty years. I got to play with him a lot, most recently on a bill with Mavis Staples and Otis Clay. He had the typical musician's regrets, watching his peers go on to lucrative jobs and big houses. But as he told me recently, they never got to play with Muddy Waters, and he did. He told the funniest, saddest, most humane stories about blues musicians, and I constantly encouraged him to write a memoir. As it is, his musician's soul as well as his grace and dignity--especially in these last years as he battled cancer--will forever be his touchstone. Chicago will miss him dearly.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 03:20:57 CEST 2001 from proxy1-external.blfld1.ct.home.com (24.4.252.36)

AHROOO!!

Those two images of Robbie are not from any "live" photos. Those are screen captures for when CBC's Life & Times was filming. Somebody tried passing those as though they took the shots themselves. If you want the credit, it's Captive Entertainment Inc. Marc Betsworth, the President of the company has known about these photos since August of 2000.

AHROOO!!

Posted on Thu Jul 19 03:20:07 CEST 2001 from spider-ta064.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.74)

Tommy

Man, you guys are building a real mystery as to the "end" of The Band.Can any of you other GBers out there contribute more pieces to this puzzle?

Posted on Thu Jul 19 02:47:38 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.208.68.191.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.208.68.191)

Pat Brennan

Wigs, darn it, half the fun is rummaging around in the stacks. You're making it too easy for everyone. And to our Dutch compadres, my remarks were friendly in nature and certainly not intended to insult. As we used to say, "Introibo ad altare Dei." Or something like that.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 02:02:16 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-118-120.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.118.120)

BWNWITennessee

Boy, that last paragraph in Rick Smith's story is kind of depressing, with the benefit of hindsight, isn't it?

Posted on Thu Jul 19 01:59:23 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-118-120.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.118.120)

BWNWITennessee

Sorry, didn't mean to get anyone's hopes up, Garth, alas, was playing synthesizers. I just said "piano" and "organ" because he seemed to use one for each sound. He had two stacked up, I couldn't really see the bottom one, it looked a bit more modern. The one on top, though, seemed like it was some kind of older thing; it had kind of an early '80's look about it, for some reason, kind of big with this brown-colored body. That's the one that had the row of stops on the left-hand side. But I did a perfunctory glance at the DVD, and it looks like he was playing different keyboards in it than he had last night. There are probably some pictures on the site from recent performances. Sorry I couldn't help better.

He was wearing his red ball cap, it said something about "polka," I couldn't quite make it all out. Not "Jimmy Sturr," almost like "Polka, X-Tra Large" or something. When the guy introduced them he said, "featuring rock-n-roll hall of fame member, Garth Hudson." That's something I never even thought about; with all of his achievments, being in the RR hall of fame seems a bit shallow and unimportant. And the MC also said, "It's good to have the original Garth in Nashville." Amen to that, brotha.

And for anyone that hasn't already checked it out, Breeze Hill's site also has some downloadable audio clips from the new CD.

I think the picture of Robbie smoking is an intentional insult on his part towards Levon, making light of his problems (sorry, I guess that was in bad taste.)

Has anyone seen the movie "Dancer In The Dark"? I've heard really good things about it. The music's supposed to be good, too, even though I don't know if Bjork really appeals to too many Band fans.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 00:46:37 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

Ragtime:

Je hebt gelijk. Als programmamaker moet je niet te veel "onnauwkeurigheden" (in English: "storende fouten" ook wel "'possums" genaamd) maken. BB is een lichte chaoot, maar dat hep ook zo z'n charme vind ik.
Had to be in Dutch again, sorry Mr.Pat

To the friends who wonder about foreign languages:........as English is not our first language..... it's sometimes harder for us to express ourselves in it, and are therefore an easy target......so be it......

Dame met de bruine ogen......hoop dat je gauw weer terug bent uit NYC!.....

Posted on Thu Jul 19 00:48:54 CEST 2001 from spider-tf074.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.209)

JTull fan

I think one reason so few Band shows occurred in '97 was due to Rick's problems in Japan, but I never could really figure out the exact dates of his incarceration and the effects this later had on his health.

Posted on Thu Jul 19 00:03:52 CEST 2001 from spider-tk061.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.201)

bob wigo

Here is Rick Smith's concert review to which Pat Brennan refers in his last post. My work here is done for now.

Tue Jan 5 16:39:15 MET 1999

Rick Smith

From: Denton, TX

I'm a frequent visitor to this site and a long-time fan of the Band. I almost never post (can't stand the heat...) but, since I caught last Saturday's show, I thought I'd offer some impressions of the show. First, some background:

My wife (not a Band fan but a real sport!) and I drove to New Orleans on our way back to TX from Tampa after a few days of holiday family time. The ride was rough; started at 6am, encountered bad, bad weather, and both my wife and I were fighting illness. Pulled into N.O. about 4:30, picked up a friend, and headed to the French Quarter. First stop (around 7:30), Levon's; a moderate sized club, still showing lots of signs of not being quite ready to open (unfinished woodwork, bathrooms not working, etc.). Asked the guy at the door (who later served as emcee) when the Band would come on and he told us it'd be about 11:30, so we decided to wander the quarter for a while. Got back around 10:00, as Banu Gibson was finishing her set (nice jazz standards). Tommy "Bones" Malone set up and played a set of mainly standard R&B tunes, accompanied by Jim Weider, Randy Ciarlante, Garth (on horns), Aaron Hurwitz, a couple other horn players, and Mike Dunn on bass. A nice set, but went a bit long for me (ended just before midnight). Didn't take too long to set up for the Band, and they came on about 12:15 or so. And a lager crew they were; in addition to the core group, Tommy Malone and 2 other horns were present, as well as Aaron (on and off), Amy Helm, and Marie Spinosa. Quite a full stage.

The guys spent a few minutes figuring out what to start with, and began playing what I thought was going to be Long Black Veil but turned out to be Walcott. I think everybody but Rick was expecting LBV or something else, too, because it was RAGGED; very, very rough. I think Levon recognized this, because as soon as they wrapped it up he sort of stood up at the kit, took control, and launched into Ophelia--singing the lead! This was, for me the highlight of the show, as his voice sounded stronger than on "Jubilation" and everybody was ON IT. As good a version as I've seen them play. The remainder of the set consisted of mainly classics and some tunes from nineties. Levon never really sang lead again, with Randy doing a nice job of filling in (but it just ain't the same). As someone noted about the New Year's show, Carnival was great, Don't Do It also very good. Notable absences from the set: Rag Mama Rag, Cripple Creek, Stage Fright, Wheel's on Fire, Atlantic City, and anything (that's right, anything) from "Jubilation." They also played a few non-band tunes, and featured Marie Spinoza on one blues tune. A major impression was the BIG sound; very few of those quiet, open spaces that defined previous incarnations of this group. As with the previous show, no Rick during the first encore; he may have played later, but we had to leave during the first encore (before the flames begin, please understand that we went directly from the show back on the road for another 10 hour drive starting at 2am, and both my wife and I were still a little "under the weather").

A couple more random thoughts: Probably the biggest disappointment of the night was Rick's performance. He never really seemed into it, and from the mees-up on the first song through the end, his performance was perfunctory. During It Makes No Difference my wife asked me if he was alright. He sat thoughout, yawned, and had no contact with the audience. Garth was Garth; solid as a rock and right on the money, adding his signature coloring and doing what he could to make this band sound like The Band. The best news was Levon. He seemed to enjoy this show more than any I've seen, smiling and grooving throughout. Drumming was near-perfect and, though he did not take leads, he did try to sing along frequently (in fact, we sat just in front of the soundboard and, when he decided to sing during the Weight I yelled at the sound man to turn his mike up--he smiled a big smile and brought Levon up to an audible level). I got a chance to speak with him before the show; told him he was looking good (it was true; he's gained weight, is clean-shaven, and looks about 10 years younger than last I saw him) and had the best wishes of a lot of people for good health. He said he was doing "as well as possible" and thanked me (and all of you) for the good thoughts.

My final thoughts are that I may have seen the future of the Band. I think the Band will be a very, very good "show" band, and their live shows will probably continue to feature a large cast of extras with Amy, Marie, and Randy on vocals (unless Levon fully recovers). I suspect we won't see extended tours, but occasional shows at Levon's. He seems to be very happy and content in the role of impressario and band leader, so I doubt that there's much incentive to hit the road. Still, I can't help but wish they'd take the stage alone, turn the amps down just a little, and take a shot at that old, open sound just one more time...

Posted on Wed Jul 18 23:42:54 CEST 2001 from spider-tk061.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.201)

bob wigo

Here is the cryptic "conversation" posted in January of 1999 that Pat Brennan refers to in his last post.Thought I might save you all a bit of time.

Wed Jan 27 05:05:04 MET 1999

Speculator

From: The Latest Last Waltz

It's mid-day in New Orleans, early January, and despite the hour, the ringing telephone in the hotel room awakens him...

Lee: Hello?

Carm: Hey, Lee. Hope I didn't wake ya.

Lee: Well. Yeah, but...What's up, man? Is somethin' wrong?

Carm: Well as a matter of fact, Lee, yeah. Yeah, there is something wrong.

Lee: Whatsamatter, son?

Carm: We've got some serious cash flow problems downtown, and...

Lee: Aw, c'mon now Carm, I told you I ain't got another dime to put into it..

Carm: No, no, that's not it, Lee. No. I know about that. It's just ...me and the other partners had an idea...

Lee: Yeah?

Carm: Well couldn't you maybe talk to your friends, tell 'em, 'we can't pay you now. But just do these January gigs and we'll make it up to you real soon.'?

Lee: Are you shittin' me, son?

Carm: It's only temporary. I swear!

Lee: I can't do it. I can't!

Carm: You've got to. We got the builder after us, and the architect, and the whole damn waitstaff. There's no other way.

Lee: Dang. This is gonna make Ricky sick!

Posted on Wed Jul 18 22:52:37 CEST 2001 from dialup-269.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.13)

Hank

I checked out that photo of RR playing the Telecaster at The Hawks session......which is worse...that RR is smoking or that he's using a POD?....I dunno........

Posted on Wed Jul 18 22:33:01 CEST 2001 from user-33qtasr.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.171.155)

Pat Brennan

Bones, in January of 1999 there was a cryptic post in the guise of a conversation that made the very point you bring up. How much truth resides there--if any--is hard to say. However, it seems that the gig immediately following the NYE show was the last Band performance. I encourage anyone so inclined to read Rick Smith's interesting review of the show in the archives.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 20:59:06 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

With regard to the Band shows in New Orleans in 98/99, I thought the Band was slated for many shows in early 99, but cancelled because they could not get paid. Wasn't there a story about Levon feeling bad because he did not want to be the one to tell Rick that the Band wasn't getting paid for the shows(or last show) they did play. Does anybody else remember something like that??

Posted on Wed Jul 18 20:48:17 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

By posing in a photo with both a cigarette and a Telecaster, perhaps Mr. Robertson is merely expressing loyalty to Capitol Records. How so, you may ask?

Capitol's first million-seller was the song "Smoke! Smoke! Smoke! (That Cigarette)", written by Merle Travis and recorded by Sollie "Tex" Williams in 1947. Unlike that song, the potential consequence of nicotine addiction is not of a humorous nature. Mr. Williams, a heavy smoker himself, died of lung cancer in 1985, at the age of 68.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 20:33:08 CEST 2001 from spider-tk041.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.191)

bob wigo

Just saw a film last evening that I enjoyed immensely. This may be dated a bit but if you haven't seen Guy Ritchie's film entitled "Snatch" you really should check it out. I won't bore you all with my review but I will say it is truly original and tremendously funny. Finally got to see "O Brother Where Art Thou?" as well and found it to be a wonderful film, beautifully constructed, wonderfully acted and the soundtrack speaks for itself.I distinctly recall Peter Viney's posts upon its European release. It is all he said and then some. Back to back winners in my book.

I've included a link above to the Internet Movie DataBase. If you are not familiar with this site I encourage you to pay a visit and bookmark it for future reference. It is one of the best on the Net and has been invaluable as a resource. Have fun.

I would enjoy hearing some film suggestions from other GBers if you are so inclined. Thanks.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 20:18:41 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

I've just strolled back from the photo gallery, where I zipped through the early photos of Hawkins and the Hawks. Does anyone who's been following Hawkins since the early '60s know if Hawkins' beard, apparent in '63, was permanent or on-and-off? I ask because it might help the dating of other shots. Also, it was interesting to see Penfound in the Fort Worth photo but in none of the London '63 photos.

Finally, the Jan '65 ad for Levon the Hawks tells us that the Mercey Brothers are winding up their gig. For non-Ontarians, the Brothers were/are a long-running country act (though with something of a beat). They had a minor hit with "Just The Snap Of Your Fingers", a song that also appeared on the first LP (1962) by one of southwestern Ontario's premier sub-Hawks groups, Larry Lee and the Leesures.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 19:03:54 CEST 2001 from m20677150207.austin.cc.tx.us (206.77.150.207)

pehr

I enjoy all the recent photos coming in and the reviews of the BB shows, great stuff going on.

I didn't know Crabby was a health conscious individual, but i appreciate his care and devotion to the guy that discovered Nikki! Picasso smoked and he lived into his 90's.

on a different thread,

imorangr nod fas te du trvalght inno da "Jonathan Edwrds" von hast hasten blumenn menniskerra ohd "Teknfob" huw posten allmenk vinkka "Peter Vinney" unnkalt furr. Shamen!

Posted on Wed Jul 18 18:34:09 CEST 2001 from spider-to081.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.81)

Amy Jo & Ray

Just wanted to add our WOWS to the Barn Burners Canadian Trip!! It was great to follow them up north. We know how great they are on & off stage, but it was SO GREAT to stand back a little and watch the reactions of people who were seeing them for the 1st time. They made quite an impression. Lots of good comments from people in the audience who know their BLUES.... They crowd rocked so hard at the Silver Dollar, that the floor started swaying Friday night (no kidding!!!). For a brief moment had visions of collapsing into the 1st floor. Good to see other loyal followers making the trip also (G-Man, Donna, Donna) and seeing Caroline again. She shared some great stories with Ray & I... Once again - just want to say get out there and see these guys/ you won't be sorry. Was just roughly adding up the miles Ray & I have trekked in the last 2 years seeing The Barn Burners, Honky Tonk Gurus & The Crowmatixs & we're up over the 10,000 mile mark!!! How's that for loyalty & Devotion!! Thanks to all of them for the great times and music we've shared....

Posted on Wed Jul 18 18:00:08 CEST 2001 from 1cust245.tnt30.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.42.158.245)

Crabgrass

Someone mentioned something a while back about Levon storming off the stage at either the very last Band gig or one of the last at his cafe in New Orleans. Anyone know why?? Enquiring minds want to know!!

Nice photo of RR at the Hawkins recording session - but Hey Robbie, don't you know that smoking is bad for your health??

Posted on Wed Jul 18 17:13:42 CEST 2001 from spider-ta022.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.52)

Dave Z

I didn't know Garth had pedals on his sax... anyway, they all look like sticks to me... and what gives with the hiking stick being thrust in the air on the CD cover?... me and my kids find 'em all the time... we bang ours against the outfield fence or blechers to get the best sound... anyway, I think Garth is the synthesizer... and I didn't know his right hand is better than the left... probably because he plays more classical piano scales with it... while he his just rutles around on his organ with his left... nay, he probably just karate chopped too hard... ok, I'm not going anywhere... I'm still trying to figure out the hats... Garth is the only consistent hat dude... what was the last Band concert where Garth didn't wear a hat?... TLW?... moving hair and all?... Opps gotta go, the baby just threw up on me... also ordered my CD yesterday... I can hear the future cries in my mind a week down the road... Daddy put on the owl music...

Posted on Wed Jul 18 16:31:19 CEST 2001 from c5300-2-ip65.albany.thebiz.net (216.238.225.65)

'possum

BWNWITennessee- Are you sure that Garth was playing an organ and not a synthesizer? Doesn't he push a lot of buttons and pedals on that too? If it was an organ, do you know whether it was a Lowry or not? That would be so cool.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 16:04:53 CEST 2001 from (209.166.233.21)

Jon Lyness

Picking up on the thread of the Band's last performance: the shows at Levon's cafe in Dec 98/Jan 99 were the last "official" Band shows, as Rick Smith mentions. But I seem to remember, in the days after Rick Danko passed away, someone posted in the Guestbook about a private gig that Rick, Levon & Garth had played together in the fall of '99 (it was posted to dispel the notion that the Band's touring inactivity in '97-'99 was due to some kind of falling out between Levon & Rick). Does anyone know more about that gig, or was it just another Rumor?

Posted on Wed Jul 18 15:22:24 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

I didn't spot a mention of a synthesizer in BWNWIT's post about Garth's performance. I hope that means he's given the damned thing up. It certainly didn't add much to the Band's sound.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 12:26:56 CEST 2001 from dialup-259.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.3)

Hank

Na bhi trid liom anois. Ta me go maith...Is mise Hank anseo agus ta se gaelige ta me ag scriobh.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 12:21:00 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-035.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.35)

Peter Viney

“Jonathan Edwards”: Ah, how long it is since we’ve seen one of your literary pseudonyms. Thought this one had died in 1758. Forgive me if I say I always thought you the worst of 18th century American writers, particularly given to apocalyptic nonsense. To avoid confusion, I’ll just call you 209.167.110.224. Do you mind if I call you 209 for short? Or is that reserved for close friends? (as if). In this instance, you’ll note that I was replying to a specific question about transferring analogue signals onto a computer at home, not professionally, and that it is headed “technophobes scroll by” and “I AM NOT AN EXPERT” in caps.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 12:06:31 CEST 2001 from du111-249.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.249.111)

Ilkka

Goedemorgen CYRANO VAN DER BANKETBAKKERIJ. Kwart voor 12!!!!! Hoe laat is het ontbijt mit vlaai? (Ik wil maar een hapje eten...)

Posted on Wed Jul 18 11:39:33 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp99.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.99)

Diamond Lil

To answer a whole lot of e-mails at once, Garth's cd "Sea to the North" _is_ indeed available for purchase now through Breezehill Records...and will be available in stores on Sept 11.

I-hay Agtime-ray (Sorry this had to be in pig latin :-)

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 10:37:49 CEST 2001 from schltns.demon.nl (212.238.41.164)

Ragtime

Norbert,

Lawe d'r zeker geen ruzie over maken, maar ik vind BB echt niet goed. Het is erg makkelijk om naar je grote boekenkast te wijzen en dan zonder verdere adstructie te zeggen dat je zo'n Goethe-kenner bent. Wat The Band betreft, door zijn onnauwkeurigheden (in English: "storende fouten") vroeg ik me af over welke Band hij het eigenlijk had toen hij zo positief was. Maar je hebt gelijk, elk positief geluid over The Band is welkom.

Sorry Pat my friend, this had to be in Dutch again... BTW you agree with me that in 1995 Robbie and Rick were taking an active part in the Watkins Glen charade?

Hi Lil (again) I hope real soon I'll be hearing from 'ya

Posted on Wed Jul 18 06:29:00 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-116-99.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.116.99)

BWNWITennessee

Okay, I'm back. Wow, Garth was great. To be honest, I've been somewhat dissapointed in some of the recent recordings he's been on. Not in his playing, but just in that he wasn't really featured very much. But "French Girls" wasn't really virtuostic, and his bit in the VH-1 video was kind of noodle-y, plus his abreviated Genetic Methods in recent years kind of made me wonder if he still had the chops. Well, I'm happy to report, he definitely does. He was turned down a bit at first, but then they seemed to fix that. They played "Blind Willie McTell," which was a treat, and Garth did this maybe minute and a half solo accordion intro that was just great. On the last song, I stood kind of behind him, about six feet away, where I could watch his hands. Wow. Astonishing. It's amazing to watch him work the stops while he's playing. I mean, he's playing so quickly and moving the stops around so much, he can't really be adjusting the tone so much as just altering it, like a wah-wah. Then to see him play on the piano with one hand and organ with the other at the same time, playing this incredible stuff on both, wow. Even in the New Orleans video, you can't really hear him very much. They definitely needed to turn him up more in the latter-day Band days, because to my ears, he seemed to be just as good as ever. I couldn't believe how animated he was either, writhing with the music, and doing these knife-edge chops on the keyboard. Talk about inspiring. You walk away and think, "Wow, I wish I could do that, even just for a day." I'm definitely looking forward to his album now. I mean, everyone raves about the BarnBurners, and I thought they were good, but to be able to see Garth up close like that was just jaw-dropping. I really hope he does a solo tour when his album comes out. Plus, we need to get him on Conan O'Brien or something. Oh, and by the looks of the westernbeat.com site, it'll probably be a few months before they get the show archived. But I'll let you all know when I see it there.

Okay, here's another trivia question - one I don't know the answer to. I assume that all of the Band have become American citizens at some point. Anyone know when?

And this - I was listening to "Too Wet To Work" when I got back; is it just me, or does some guy in the crowd yell, "Play something! Don't just stand there like assholes, play something!" Right before Garth starts to play. Or am I mishearing it? There's probably a million people that take credit for yelling "Whipping Post!" on the Filmore East, anyone here want to take credit for this one?

Posted on Wed Jul 18 05:50:51 CEST 2001 from dialup-209.244.67.1.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (209.244.67.1)

Pat Brennan

Rick Smith, your email bounced. Please email me. Thanks.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 05:11:13 CEST 2001 from c5300-2-ip65.albany.thebiz.net (216.238.225.65)

'possum

what does "onnauwkeurigheden" mean in english?

Posted on Wed Jul 18 05:03:47 CEST 2001 from spider-tr024.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.184)

Rick Smith

The Band played on Jan. 2, 1999; I was there and posted a review in the GB a day or 2 later. I'm pretty sure they were scheduled to play the next night and then again a few days later. I think they may have played the 3rd but cancelled shows after that. Anybody know about the show on the 3rd?

Posted on Wed Jul 18 04:57:15 CEST 2001 from dialup-209.244.67.1.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (209.244.67.1)

Pat Brennan

Gosh, I hadn't thought of it, but out Dutch friends could be discussing the Edwards's.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 04:50:39 CEST 2001 from c5300-2-ip65.albany.thebiz.net (216.238.225.65)

'possum

i noticed that nobody mentioned in the gb yet that garth hudson's cd is already being sold at breezehill.net

cool, huh?

Posted on Wed Jul 18 04:45:46 CEST 2001 from dialup-209.244.67.1.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (209.244.67.1)

Pat Brennan

No trick question. When was the last Band appearance? I'm aware of the NYE 98-99, but did they play Levon's place later that month?

Sorry, this had to be in English.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 04:33:46 CEST 2001 from dial144.gtn.net (209.167.110.224)

Jonathan & Darlene Edwards

Mr. Viney, you seem to know everything about everything, and have an opinion about everything. We guess that you are just blessed with gifts a few of us can only dream about. We think that Norbert and Ragtime are talking about you in their last exchange on this site, as ignorant as this may strike some of us. Knowing not the language of the Low Countries we can still recognize words such as "expert","charlatan" etc...Maybe those two should stick to a tongue that most of us comprehend. We may realize then that in fact they are not discussing you at all, but someone very much like you.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 03:15:36 CEST 2001 from dialin-676-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.3.168)

Gene

Thanks to JTullFan, HI, and Peter Viney (one 'n') for the input (ha,ha) on analog to burner.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 02:58:26 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-115-13.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.115.13)

BWNWITennessee

Damn! JTull beat me to it.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 02:56:15 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-115-13.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.115.13)

Back with no wife in Tennessee

Well, I'm off to see the wizard. I'll wear my Garth shirt, even though I might look like a bit of a doofus, because this is sort of an industry hang out kind of place he's playing, and it's considered uncool to actually be a fan. Oh, well, I'm pretty uncool anyway, so it'll work out fine. But what's this with the CD release date being pushed back? I thought I was going to be able to see him on the day his CD was released, witness a bit of Band history. If anyone wants to see Prof. Louie's performance tonight, it's streamed at westernbeat.com, click on the link. If you read this within half an hour, you can even see it live, I think. If you look real close, you just might see me.

Pat, The Band's last gig was in New Orleans at Levon's cafe, on New Year's Eve, 1998/99. Maybe New Year's Day. I learned that from the Guestbook.

Posted on Wed Jul 18 02:54:49 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti044.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.169)

JTull fan

Peter: I have a theory for why the cd copy of vinyl retains the 'warmth', as well as why people think vinyl sounds warmer in the first place: I think there is a very subtle low-end background hum emitted from the turntable platter which is picked up by the needle, almost a 'white noise' type of thing. I think this adds a semi-noticeable,, subtle depth to the listening experience, similar to how on a color tv or monitor the colors become more vibrant by turning up the blacklevel (making it darker). I may be totally full of it on this and can't prove it, but does anybody else have an explanation?

Posted on Wed Jul 18 02:47:28 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti044.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.169)

JTull fan

I think the Band's last official show was January 1999 at Levon Helm's cafe in New Orleans. Don't shoot me if I am wrong and yes, I count post-Robertson. Although I hear somewhere that Danko and Manuel have reprised their 80's era 2-man show, and they have a hell of a back-up band up there!

Posted on Wed Jul 18 01:27:42 CEST 2001 from 2cust78.tnt48.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.55.206)

Crabgrass

Hey, no trick questions!! Which incarnation of The Band?

Posted on Wed Jul 18 00:45:11 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

Geachte Ragtime,

Dat programma heb ik niet gezien helaas, maar ik ben het met je eens dat er, nu ook, verschillende "onnauwkeurigheden" in zijn betoog zaten (al ben ik niet zo'n Band expert als jij). Maar een charlatan vind ik hem zeker niet (ik vind zijn programma's goed), hij was erg positief over de Band......en daar is niets mis mee......(maar lawe d'r geen ruzie over make......)

(sorry, had to be in Dutch too......)

(Hi Brown Eyed Girl)

Posted on Tue Jul 17 23:53:34 CEST 2001 from schltns.demon.nl (212.238.41.164)

Ragtime

Beste Norbert,

Die Boudewijn Büch moet je niet vertrouwen. Het is een charlatan. In een programma dat hij een paar geleden maakte over Jesse Winchester (n.a.v. "Biloxi") slaagde hij erin zoveel enormiteiten over The Band te debiteren dat het gewoon zielig was. Om maar één voorbeeld uit vele te noemen: hij beweerde dat Levon de leider van The Band was (er was geen leider, ook RR niet! onthou dat nou 's BB!) maar wist diens naam niet eens correct uit te spreken! Hij wist ook het verschil niet tussen Levon en Rick, zo bleek.

(Sorry, had to do this in Dutch)

(Hi Lil)

Posted on Tue Jul 17 23:45:15 CEST 2001 from 1cust135.tnt8.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.15.114.135)

HI

I just noticed that the Garth cd is now being released the same day as the Dylan record on September 11th...is that good? This could run into a lot of change.

Posted on Tue Jul 17 23:42:49 CEST 2001 from user-33qt93e.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.164.110)

Pat Brennan

We all know when the Band's first gig was. When was their last?

Posted on Tue Jul 17 23:32:33 CEST 2001 from 1cust135.tnt8.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.15.114.135)

HI

Good info from Peter....I also use a Marantz stand alone for Dats with digital transfer to cdr discs but I've found for 78's or other vinyl analogue transfers the rca to miniplug input to my computer's burner to be fine for old vinyl stuff....Roxio's ez creator 5 has software for eliminating hiss from cassettes that works quite well also... Then again I'm no audiophile.....

Posted on Tue Jul 17 22:56:30 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-002.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.2)

Peter Viney

Gene and anyone else interested. Technophobes scroll by now!: I AM NOT AN EXPERT – to the point where I can’t even use Napster, but CD burners v CD recorders. I have a dedicated Philips Hi-Fi CD recorder that must be five years old, and you hook it into the hi-fi system like a tape deck, and then it’ll take any analogue source directly (so I can access LP, tape, DAT, even video soundtrack or TV signal). The later models take two CDs and are less than half the price of mine. The disadvantage is that they only use CD Audio discs, and you can’t make “a copy of a copy” digitally, though you can if you switch over to analogue (there’s one simple button). If (perish the thought) I did want to make a copy of a copy, I can do the first one on the dedicated Philips machine, then run off copies on a computer CD burner on ordinary CDR discs. An easy route is to buy one mega-expensive CD-Audio RW (Rewritable) disc and use it to assemble a CD roughly on the Philips, then do all the copies (and adjusting and boosting if you want) on a computer CD burner. BUT I’ve noticed recently that the Philips seems to be clipping half a second at the start of tracks on the “auto” mode, and the auto mode is the joy of it. This seems to be a new fault. You program the source CD and it automatically stops and starts the copy process with it. You can’t use the Auto mode with analogue sources anyway. Generally, I’ve found Philips / Marantz gear brilliant when new, but less reliable in the long term than Sony or Pioneer. The advantage of using the single disc Philips is that the source CD can be on a higher quality player with better error correction – the ones and zeros should stream across in the same quality whatever the source, but having a good error correction on the source player helps. It’s noticeable that I get very few glitches off my Sony ES or Myrad CD players, but tons of glitches off the Philips or Marantz machines. Philips / Marantz look great value but I suppose they economize on longevity of the components. The new Macs include a CD burner in the main CD drive. I guess it’s getting the analogue source into the computer that’s the first issue, and the Philips does it pretty easily. Otherwise you’re restricted by the sound input into the computer, and also have to store the lot on your hard drive. Some computers input via a mini-jack, which is definitely degrading the signal. Even twin red and black stereo leads will degrade the signal somewhat compared to an optical or other digital link. Putting a CDRW disc in works out easiest. I reckon a dedicated CD recorder is worth it if you need to transfer a lot of vinyl or tape. Oddly, vinyl copies directly onto CD seem to retain vinyl warmth, which I guess is the compression on the LP, because once copied it’s no longer analogue. Useful for getting the Shuffling Sydney Samuels collection onto CD. I think dedicated CD hi-fi CD recorders are about £250 in the UK, they used to be £500. As equipment costs more in the UK, you can translate most hi-fi equipment prices at £1 = $1. (Compared to £1 = $1.40 for money!). This is not true for high-end British hi fi gear, but is true for Far East gear.

Posted on Tue Jul 17 22:47:28 CEST 2001 from 1cust81.tnt4.louisville.ky.da.uu.net (63.25.209.81)

gino

i just have two words to describe the barn burners' show last nite in bloomington: mystery train. that in itself was worth the drive up. man, no one told me that amy was a hottie!

Posted on Tue Jul 17 22:33:39 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Standing corrected---Kid Ramos on guitar with the Fabulous T Birds!!!

Posted on Tue Jul 17 22:09:38 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

......maybe we'll get some Dutch visitors over here, the next days. In a television program about Nova Scotia there was quite some attention for The Band, quote: "Probably the best band the world has ever seen!" (among others, special attention for NLSC-Acadian Driftwood)......Boudewijn Büch bedankt kerel! (als je dit GB ook leest, laat dat dan eens weten)

Posted on Tue Jul 17 21:50:02 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

SOMEBODY......get the GD Barnburner's cd out, ey!!!

Posted on Tue Jul 17 20:07:23 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.37)

Bones

It was great reading the reviews of Levon's Canada shows...they sound wonderful! John, I hope either the people from EMI or Rounder will release a recording by the BBs. Many people here have been waiting for a release for a long time.

Posted on Tue Jul 17 19:35:57 CEST 2001 from 56k-la-01-20.dial.qnet.com (209.221.212.83)

Dave the phone Guy

Positive reviews for Levon Helm and the Barnburners are coming in from across the nation.

No, make that, great reviews for the Barnburners are coming in INTERNATIONALLY !

Posted on Tue Jul 17 18:55:38 CEST 2001 from spider-tm013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.48)

butch

any of my EURO bros & sisters going to the NOTODDEN FESTIVAL in Norway, this august ???? i will be there with Al Kooper, ( helping him & his band ) let me know, here or @ my e-mail,,, love to hook with ya Band/Levon fans,,, see ya in Jan-Land,,, bd

Posted on Tue Jul 17 18:32:09 CEST 2001 from (207.251.204.133)

G-MAN

Toronto and Windsor, and almost London too!! It was G, Donna, and Dawnna(Philly Donna)-through the farm country around Hamilton to Tonto!!! Time to see some sites and find the Silver Dollar!!! Stayin close was nice, too!! It was great to see Pat, Chris, and Frank out front!!! They looked tense and full of energy!! Pat, we owe ya big time, thanks!!! Neat club but security was tuff; for awhile!!! It was great to see the original Buffalo crew; Caroline, Missy, Matt, Paul, the BFlo. Bros.. Ray and AmyJo(Road Warriors), too!!!! Got to meet, "Brown Eyed Girl"-did you really legally change YOUR last name to Wobbertson???? Got to meet Bill Avis and John Donabie; great people!! JD, Bflo for Garth show, 8/17, ??? Well, the Barnburners made Levon's return to Toronto somethin special!!! What can I say, that hasn't been already said?????? (Well, if I was Levon I'd get a shotgun behind the drums when Amy hits the stage!!!) Break...time....!! The crew was great!! Great pictures!! It was great to see Levon sharin with so many old friends! He wore one continuous smile!! Amazed at how battered his hands were, damn!!! Oh, How'd ya describe the show:..Amy...that girls is super, wow, voice of gold!!!A REAL LOOKER!! Frankie Ingreato....what a bass player, gosh, he rocks it!! Pat O'Shay.........don't see too many guitarists play like him!!!!!!!FANATASTIC/CLASS!! Chris......... Hm, sounds and plays like Kim Wilson. What a stage presence! Not my description, but some laid out by Dan Ackroyd before he got on stage with the Barnburners!!!!! Off to Windsor via 401!!! Hit Windsor, two blocks from the fest!!! See Levon for a fast hello, Pat,Frank, and Chris, too!!! Manage to get in front of the stage!!!! What a set, what a set!! I turned around to look at the mass of fans.......BB's had a followin!!! Ray and AmyJo followin the Road Warrior tradition!! Ton's of people askin about the group!!!! They were really, really, cookin!!!!! What a set!!! Had to do an encore!!!!! Best of the road trip!!! Fabulous Thunderbirds call out Kenny Wayne Sheppard and Jeff Healy for the wind down!! See the Barnburners hangin back stage!!!! LAST song,.... CHRIS O'LEARY,,,,,,,,,YESSSSSSSSSS, on stage with KIM Wilson. Man, forgot to watch Jim V, KWS, and JH!!! Just to see Chris walk out!!! What a harp duet!!! Chris at the top of his game!! The crowd went wild!!! Oh, the Double D's were the best part of the Road Trip too!! Heh, heh!! I mean, fine company!!! Ooooops, from the Road Warriors.....Butch we missed ya!!! Wish we couldda did London, but Philly Donna had the train to ride!!!! She deserves a Turbin for the trip!!! Road back via highway #3; Delhi, Simcoe, Port Colbourne..Pictured the Hawks speedin down that road!!!!! Thank You Levon and the Barnburners!

Posted on Tue Jul 17 18:13:24 CEST 2001 from dialup-273.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.17)

Hank

Bob Dylan in Killkenny July 15th, 2001.......my band and I had been playing that afternoon in a hotel in Killkenny and generally just having fun 'round the town......it was like when The Dead would hit a town in The USA.....people camping....chilled out, cool'n'groovy.....beautiful weather......got a free ticket....went to the gig.....got there half an hour before he was on stage.....met some friends...sat down.......here's Bob Dylan!.....on stage with the acoustic band singing Elizabeth Cottons O Babe, it ain't no lie .....Ramona.....Desolation Row ( skipped 6 verses or so)....Next, Electronic guitars are strapped on....here's Ronnie Wood!!......Maggies Farm (wonderful and sloppy).......Thin Man......bye bye Ronnie.....acoustic set part two Johanna.....Don't think Twice........by this time, Bob is taking all kindsa guitar and harmonica solos......an amazing harmonica solo in Don't think Twice.......he kept blowing and blowing at the end...drove the crowd bananas. Most harp players would probably scoff at what he was doing but it worked really well........then he played the most beautiful version of She Belongs to Me that I've ever heard......he's got this uneartly falsetto thing going which may sound weird to folks but it's very effective......and, of course, he's screwing up all the melody lines as he sang 'em on record......the crowd of 20,000 don't care......it's wondrous to hear the crowd sing the record melody over the melody Bob is singing..........this low hum over an amplified growl......here's Ronnie Wood again.....Stuck inside of Mobile starts off another electric set and it becomes a greatest hits show for the crowd who ADORE it..........Ronnie is jumping around and pulling faces and trying to crack up the band..........it's really funny and really adds to the show.....THREE encores of all your favourites......shows over.......I, personally had a ball......you COULD argue that he played nothing from after 1967 except Heavens Door.....you COULD argue he played nothing from Time Outta Mind......You COULD argue that Ronnie Wood was superfluous and busked his way thru it with a fag in his mouth.....but so WHAT?.......OK, I admit he was better in Dublin in September last year when he played Lovesick and Time Outta Mind songs REALLY well.....but Bob knew his crowd last Sunday afternoon and he KNEW they wanted a chill out show.........he gave it to 'em and he really seemed to enjoy Ronnie on stage with him.........You HAVE to give it up for Bobs band...they really have to put up with a lot...but they do it well for their boss...the other thing that was very cool was that, when it was all over, Bob, the band , Ronnie and all just stood there in a line and waved to the crowd for about 5 minutes........Met my own band in town afterwards.....our rythmn section could'nt get tickets...they were sozzled......but we had a great time arguing the merits of Bob and Ronnie and Rock'n'Roll in general 'till three in the morning when it was time to go back to Cork......Then, my car, with all our gear and 4 people, refused to start.......and so it was all out and push....and, of course, all the concert refugees still walking the streets of Killkenny decided to push as well......no luck.....up and down the streets of Killkenny for an hour pushing it, shoving it ( I gotta start working out!).....did ya ever notice that EVERYONE is a motor mechanic at 3AM in the morning?.....so we was stranded....not so bad....in the town park area and near it were loadsa tents and campfires and people singing and having fun....we blended into that and slept in the car until 11AM when a guy came along with portable jump cables and we went home.......having said that, I'm completely burnt out now, voice is shot and I'm not gonna do ANYTHING today and tommorrow....gigging again on Thursday........those of you getting The OPEN KITCHEN Newsletter will know where........

Posted on Tue Jul 17 10:41:30 CEST 2001 from ip-111-42-236.sanantonio.navipath.net (64.111.42.236)

Karen Tiffer

I am a student at UTSA. I'm trying to find a way to get in touch with Robbie Robertson, I'm researching a paper for my IDS world lit class that I need to finish. I'm looking for creation stories about the drum and how it has kept the tradions and old stories alive if anyone could lead me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated. to all our relations thanks.

Posted on Tue Jul 17 10:09:01 CEST 2001 from dial-51.bton.kiva.net (208.143.10.51)

Todd Berryman - 92.3 WTTS, Bloomington/ Indianapolis

Hey, Joe -

By any chance, were you at the show? YES, I admit it, I WAS THE MORON JUMPING UP AND DOWN CLOSE TO THE FRONT (or, I assume that's what the people behind me were thinking)! I nearly wet 'em when they made that transition into "Mystery Train."

Levon is an example of physics in action. I had no idea he put that kind of force onto the skins.

And Pat broke a string on each guitar. It was a busy night all 'round for A.P.

Be well...tb.

Posted on Tue Jul 17 09:55:26 CEST 2001 from spider-wl032.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.32)

Joe

Hey Todd,............. Ya like the way they go into "Mystery Train", don't ya?.... It just blows me away!!

Posted on Tue Jul 17 09:28:09 CEST 2001 from dial-480.bton.kiva.net (208.143.13.225)

Todd Berryman - 92.3 WTTS, Bloomington/Indianapolis

Hey all -

Just got back from Levon & the BB's at the Bluebird in Bloomington tonight. My God, they are incredible. Amy was all that and a back of chips, but I'm sure I'm not surprising anyone with that statement. And to a person, they were all wonderful and gracious.

The capper was meeting all of them backstage, shaking Levon's hand and getting Amy's autograph on my copy of STAGE FRIGHT...I can't extract the song "All La Glory" from an association with her, go figure.

I'm off to work. Thanks for the eyetime. And if you haven't seen the BB's...for crying out loud, MAKE THE TIME. I haven't danced this hard since NRBQ was here a few months ago.

Be well...tb.

P.S. - Thanx Butch, A.P. and Don Pugatch...I aspire to your league of gentlemen.

Posted on Tue Jul 17 04:53:58 CEST 2001 from h0000f8718e9a.ne.mediaone.net (24.218.187.47)

Long Distance Operator

BK- that link to the Fordham University radio station ROCKS! The first song I got was the great Bob Dylan doing "Love Sick". NICE! They followed it up with a reasonably cool Greg Brown number, then followed that up with our own Ricky Danko doing "Crazy Mama"! This link is already in my 'favorites', and I anticipate giving it much play. Many thanks my friend!

Posted on Tue Jul 17 02:36:11 CEST 2001 from spider-tp023.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.183)

JTull fan

Thanks for the Idiot's Delight link! I saved and and hope to check it out later. Gene: I have no idea how to burn a cd from an analog source. I only did it from Napster. I would think you would need to copy the analog source to a digital tape or simialr, then convert that to a wav file, which is what cd's use, then burn that. Unless you have a lot, it may be more convenient to just find a service to do it for you in the yellow pages. If you find out let me know as I would be curious myself.

Posted on Tue Jul 17 02:03:43 CEST 2001 from 131.e.003.mel.iprimus.net.au (203.134.172.131)

Erin

Brien: They are some REALLY great photos of the BBs - You've got some eye.

On the weekend they aired a Gilles Apap concert, which was just fantastic. He was suppost to be playing Mozart's 3rd violin concerto, but he ended up playing all kinds of stuff - a lot of gypsy and Irish- sounding stuff, he even broke into a blues on his violin at one point. He reminded me of Quentin Blake's Patrick. (I don't know if anyone else read Quentin Blake when they were kids, but I did.)

Posted on Tue Jul 17 01:23:23 CEST 2001 from spider-wk034.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.164)

Joe

"The Last Waltz" and "The Band" were a question and answer on Jeopardy tonight.

Posted on Tue Jul 17 01:17:59 CEST 2001 from cfa1.execulink.net (199.166.6.10)

Paul Godfrey

Hot Damn, got Levon Helm on the drums back in his adopted land Canada.

Lil' my first concert of memory was in Peterborough Ontario Canada with Ronnie Hawkins and the Hawks at the Brock Ballroom put on by the Pharoah's Car Club.

Yep it was Ronnie and the boys in the Band about 1961 or 1962. Most remembered songs were 'Come Love' and 'You Don't Know Me' ah God Love Richard. I'm sure Ricky played a stand up electric bass.

Fast forward to London Ontario about 40 years later and you get Levon Helm and the Barn Burners with Miss Amy. Got to do a little visiting before the show...even shared a phone call with John Donabie. My we missed you John John. It was a hot night, a hot band and cold beer. The boys let everyone know they enjoyed the Canadian Beer from Labatt's London Canada.

Still wandering if Richard from St. Catherines made it. I hope so. We were about 2 tables back from the stage and in good company with Serge his lady and friends. Tight - Tight - Tight! What a show, what a band. Levon looked like a teenager again back at the old 'Brass Rail' on Dundas street not more than 10 blocks away. The crowd was more than responsive...they were out for a red hot party, and they got one large dose of the blues. Miss Amy joined the fellas boys for 'I Just Want To Make Love To You' and had a lot of Canadian boys cryin' in their beer. The road is a great teacher and each show uncovers more of her soul. She's got it and I hope you are ready for it.

As in Toronto Levon hung on after the show and tired as he was had that certified Levon Helm smile and signed every album from Islands back to Big Pink and big hugs all around for old friends that dropped by.

We said our so longs at about 1am after the final photos. Leaving the Hilton I looked over my shoulder one more time and Levon still had that smile, a wave and a so long brother. Julia and I headed home to bed.

Will send concert photos to Jan if any turn out. Shine On!

Posted on Mon Jul 16 23:40:42 CEST 2001 from (206.187.219.40)

AnneElizabeth

POW WOW Season. Blessings to all indigenous peoples. ANd to 6 Nations. Dinner or Dineh? Entendu, mon ami? Mon amour toujours. La vie...Beaucoup du travaille. C'est necessaire. J'espere que tu vas d'accord. Beaucoup du healing and j'espere beaucoup du justice pour moi. C'EST NECESSAIRE MAINTENANT. J'espere que tu m'ecoute. Et L'autre homme la meme chose. Exactement la situation jamais manintenant si tu et luis m'ecoutement. J'ai beaucoup du regrettes pour toi. J'assiste a toi--- c'etait trop and tu me donne un petit peu quand je derseve le monde d'or. C'etait trop mon ami, mon amour. La raison. Le trust... Ou? Ou? Ou? Tu me promis...........Tu me parle que t'etait avec beaucoup de difference come l'autres hommes. Qu'est'ce qui se passe? Un serpentine dans ton oeuils...et dans ton tete and ton coeur. Exactement comme l'autre hommes. LA MEME CHOSE.. Non. Non plus. T'etait mon coeur...T'etait mon coeur. Toute le monde pensent ca. C'est imposible que moi avec toi parce que la situation est la route est la complications du situation. J'ai beaucoup du regrettes maintentant parce que la route dans ta vie. Tourjours, je t'aime. Avoir.

Posted on Mon Jul 16 23:13:34 CEST 2001 from raindel.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.249)

Ann

Diamond Lil...my first concert memory is of The Monkees way back when. My Aunt Donna and cousin Dib took 10 youngsters - ages 7 to 9 - to the show...they were brave. My Uncle Ken gave us each $5.00 to spend and I came home with a program AND Monkee earings!! I don't think any of us could hear for a couple of days after from all of the screaming. I wonder if Hendrix opened up that show...hmmm...

What's everyone listening to right now? This very second while you read the GB. John Prine here...

Posted on Mon Jul 16 22:56:26 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tg053.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.173)

Tommy

Thanks BK...

I just read the Guitar Player interview with Rick and Robbie,and in it, it says something about The Band's music being "Autumnal"......That's what I said yesterday about The Band AND Jethro Tull.Pretty cool.I guess I was pretty acurate in my feelins regarding The Band.

Posted on Mon Jul 16 19:47:19 CEST 2001 from (130.219.229.173)

BK

JTull/Tommy - You can still catch Vin Scelsa doing Idiots Delight, he's on WFUV (90.7 in NY area) on Saturday nights. (8 to midnite I think) They also stream on the web, the link is above. His show is still great, and probably better now cause he's back on a small college station, and I'm sure there's less restrictions.

Posted on Mon Jul 16 18:21:06 CEST 2001 from user-33qt8pe.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.163.46)

Pat Brennan

Great article just linked to the site in the What's New section. I've seen bits and pieces quoted before but this is the first time I've seen the whole thing. We now have in print both Robbie and Rick claiming that the Watkins Glen tracks (from AtGD) were real.

Posted on Mon Jul 16 16:58:06 CEST 2001 from london-ppp52057.sympatico.ca (209.226.247.138)

Mike Nomad

Sorry, need to correct a cuple typos: that's Rita Chiarelli and Dave McLean, not what i typed previously. Also, there's a Levon-BarnBurners-related review at http://www.canoe.ca/LondonToday/lf.lf-07-16-0020.html

Posted on Mon Jul 16 16:40:57 CEST 2001 from london-ppp52037.sympatico.ca (209.226.247.118)

Mike Nomad

Fyi, Levon and the Barn Burners closed a great International Bluesfest in London, Ont., on Sunday night. Levon et al was preceded by a fantastic Rita Charelli, Big Dave McClain and the Holmes Brothers that day. Great weather, great beer. Light rain began with closing licks. Levon and the group strongly received by a large outdoors group in that city's Market Square, many remembering the Hawks of years past. Levon looked great and seemed strongly moved by fan support. Saw a few "oldies" in the crowd, again from past Hawks era. A great show, a great night. I'll leave it to others to get into the nitty gritty.

Posted on Mon Jul 16 16:13:52 CEST 2001 from (205.245.52.66)

carmen

http://usatoday.com/life/music/2001-07-16-bob-dylan.htm

See above site for review of Dylan's upcoming release.

Posted on Mon Jul 16 15:24:54 CEST 2001 from slip-12-64-168-227.mis.prserv.net (12.64.168.227)

Don Pugatch

Before I forgot, Garth is going to be with Prof Louie in Nashville on Tuesday, Tim, you lucky stiff. Did see PL and the Crew last night. Having never seen them, had high expectations and they more then met my thoughts. They can boogie, get down and wail. Ms. Marie, was flaming and PL was smokin. The venue was a radio show, and mostly people in their 20's, but everyone really got down and their version of The Dead's Scarlett Begonia's was perfect for the scene. Wonderful rendition of Twilight and Blind Willie McTell and lots of new stuff from "Jam", including the tune that Rick wrote with PL. Just a great night, and did spend time talking to PL, so if you catch them, make sure you send my regards.

Posted on Mon Jul 16 08:29:47 CEST 2001 from spider-tf013.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.178)

Tommy

Brien Sez,,,Thanks!You were right.I knew I wasn't sure about the Idiot's Delight show.

Bayou Sam,,,I was just in the yard BBQing(at midnight) with Q104 on.They had a show on that was quite similiar to Idiot's Delight .They were playing some really weird and (to classic rock stations at least) obscure stuff,most of which I've never heard of.I didn't catch the name of the program though.

In '99, when Tom Petty &The Heartbreakers released their latest album, ECHO, they had a pre-release "Listening" of the album on Q104.Petty and Heartbreakers' guitarist Mike Campbell were both there answering questions from callers and the interviewer alike.It was a pretty cool show, and I taped it(mainly to learn some of the new songs,cause I saw Petty in concert a few days after on the day the Echo album was oficially released.Bo Diddley opened up and TP played like a three hour set!Probably one of, if not THE, best show I've ever seen.and in a standing room,1000 person theatre to boot!We were 5 feet from TP and the Heartbreakers!We got some great pictures, too.).I'm sure this pre-release listening party was similiar to the one that Ian Anderson was on.

Posted on Mon Jul 16 06:09:45 CEST 2001 from spider-wm013.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.153)

Bayou Sam

maybe it's because I'm a drummer - or a Levon fan - or both, but when I listen to the Dylan Live 1966 stuff, the fact that it isn't Levon on drums jumps right out at me. Mickey Jones is a fine drummer but it just ain't the same feel. I find that repetitive snare fill on "Rolling Stone" annoying after awhile. Good drummer - but a noticeably different feel than Levon.

I remember the classic days of WNEW radio in New York. There is a station now called Q-104 that comes close. I was listening to "the Q" one day, a few months back, and they had Ian Anderson on (how's that for keeping with the current thread), and the D.J. was talking with him about his newest work and playing album cuts. I was so happy to hear this because it reminded me of those WNEW days when you would hear these kinds of things on the "good" rock stations. So, all is not lost.......... BTW - I like Aqualung - it's no "Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except Me and My Monkey", but it's good.

Posted on Mon Jul 16 04:48:03 CEST 2001 from spider-wg041.proxy.aol.com (205.188.196.36)

Brien Sz

Vince Scelsa was the host of Idiot's Delight..,

Posted on Mon Jul 16 03:14:24 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp107.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.107)

Diamond Lil

Dexy: Aah....I remember Bachman Turner Overdrive well. I was about 12 or 13, and was vacationing in Canada with my family. The New York Mets were also there, so my dad took my brother to the game..while my mom took me to the Montreal Forum to see BTO. My mom was wearing ear plugs for the noise, and dark glasses for the smoke (you could still smoke in arenas back then) and the lights. I remember thinking how funny she looked..but damn..she was _there_ with me! And to this day (she's 72 now)..everytime she hears "Taking care of business" on the radio.. she mentions that show :-)

Anyone else have any 'attending a concert with mom or dad' stories? I'd love to hear some.

Have a good night everyone.

Posted on Mon Jul 16 01:13:22 CEST 2001 from dialin-1250-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.5.234)

Gene

JTull Fan - You reminded me of something I've been puzzling over for a while...how can you burn a CD from an analog source, such as a lp, (without spending the savings of a lifetime)? I guess it an easier hookup with a stand-alone CDr deck than a burner?

Posted on Mon Jul 16 01:00:00 CEST 2001 from spider-tf031.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.186)

Tommy

JTullFan,,,,'Idiot's Delight'.Its not on anymore.It was a cool show.I think the host was Pete Fornatale (But I could be mistaken).

Peter,,,I didn't mean ALL artists...but some "classic rock" alumni are making some horrid music nowadays!Sans Levon, of course!

Posted on Mon Jul 16 00:56:44 CEST 2001 from modem-223-28-60-62.vip.uk.com (62.60.28.223)

union man

No, I'm afraid it is true. They should never come back once they've had their time, rock stars, because the results, almost without exception, are awful (and don't anybody mention David bloody Bowie).

Posted on Mon Jul 16 00:49:32 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tb054.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.44)

JTull Fan

Peter: I believe the Martin Barre album is probably out of print, but you may find a link to it on the jtull.com website. If not, email me and I will make you a CD copy: it's the least I can do as you have put up with my Confederate rantings in such a gentlemanly fashion. Tommy: you may remember this: WNEW 102.7 Fm on Sunday nights used to have a show called 'Idiot's' something or the other. It was free-form, format free radio. I used to drive through frequently and always made sure to catch it. It was an example of what radio can and should be if the programming directors only had some balls. The guy was canned last year and supposedly it is on the web somewhere now..

Posted on Sun Jul 15 22:20:19 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-018.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.18)

Peter Viney

I’m going to seek out the Martin Barre solo album. Never even heard of it. I liked his playing very much 30 years back.

Tommy: I know Tarrytown. Had a two day meeting at a conference center there about five years ago which was quite productive. Some old houses (what we’d call Georgian in the UK) with new buildings around. It was strange to land at Newark, head for Tarrytown, spend a couple of days, then head back to Newark without ever entering NYC, in spite of seeing it on the horizon from the taxi. Newark, IMHO, is now a more pleasant airport than JFK (should that be “less unpleasant”). Eventually these might end up as Newark (Springsteen) and New York (Simon) airports. And Washington Irving country has to be positive.

I don’t know that I agree that the stars of 30 years ago are making less interesting music, though for many (corporate) reasons they have problems getting record contracts. The secret is to have one of the “75 or so songs”, but it doesn’t seem to make the muscians bankable.

Posted on Sun Jul 15 21:32:43 CEST 2001 from spider-tn012.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.47)

Dave ~ (the drummer)

There is a nice article in The Toronto Star about Levon and The Barnburners. WWW.Torontostar.com It's under the Entertainment/Music section. ENJOY !

Posted on Sun Jul 15 21:23:35 CEST 2001 from spider-tf061.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.201)

Tommy

JTullFan,,,I AGREE WHOLE-HEARTEDLY about classic rock radio stations.There is AT LEAST 45 years of "classic" rock 'n' roll, and you only hear about the same 75 or so songs on any given classic rock station.A disgrace, if you ask me.That's why I mainly listen to cds.

As far as Jethro Tull goes, I've listened to some of the newer stuff, and SOME of it is pretty good (the newer songs sound alot better live though...),but I'd still rather listen to albums I like throughout as compared to a newer (Tull) album wherein I only enjoy a couple of songs,regardless of hearing the "growth".Alot of guys that've been around for almost 35 years (Tull included) have stopped making music that is still viable.This, of course, is my opinion.Maybe the reason rock radio stations don't play the newer stuff is cause it's not as good,or as memorable upon an initial hearing?Who knows.

I hated the SONG Aqualung for years...I'm starting to listen to it and like it now though.The most famous Tull song doesn't have a flute in it.....disgraceful!

Posted on Sun Jul 15 20:00:02 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Country Joe

Ilkka: congrats with Mika Hakkinens victory on Silverstone! (big leapers on the grass there!)......(Verstappen: ben blij dat je de streep weer eens gehaald hebt jochie!......)

Norbert: congrats with the victory of Dutchie Erik Dekker in the Tour de France! (although that Speedy Gonzalez was great too!)

Posted on Sun Jul 15 19:48:39 CEST 2001 from spider-wm033.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.163)

JTull fan

Tommy (and Peter) I'll throw a curveball your way: In 1995 Martin Barre released a surprisingly good solo album titled 'Trick of Memory'on which he actually sings! Have you ever encountered it and if so what is your opinion? I respect your thoughts re early vs. late Tull. I tend to favor, no matter who the performer or group, later material versus earlier because I am very interested in how the artist has developed over the years. ie Dylan. I enjoy his later stuff ie. Oh, Mercy!, Time Out of Mind, etc. (but not anything from 85-88. Yech!There is no argument that nothing compares to HWy 61 or Blonde on Blonde, yet still I enjoy the later efforts too. I remember when Star Trek, the Motion Picture came out all the dissappointment in that it was different from the original series etc. etc. but so what? These comments really aren't directed at you or anybody. I just hate when rock stations will keep playing the same 20 or 30 yr old songs to death and ignore new material by the same artist. I actually switch the station when Aqualung comes on. Does anyone remember the horrible year (around '84 or '85)when classic rock killed Album Rock? Yep. Once Upon a Time on FM (which became AM at that time)actually played album tracks. You could actually hear Chest Fever on the radio versus The Weight(if that even gets played anymore)It's just so depressing.

Posted on Sun Jul 15 19:45:14 CEST 2001 from spider-tf033.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.188)

Tommy

I always found Tull to be very folk/myth/literature based.Very "country"....not in musical style, but in frame of mind(the early years, I mean...before the progressive phase).The early stuff always invokes pictures of guys in the woods,making music away from the city and living a kind of rural existance.Kinda like The Band, no? At least that's what I get from it.

Every year in October, we take a trip to Tarry Town, NY (where Sleepy Hollow is),and for some reason we always play early Jethro Tull cds while heading up there.It's very...."Autumnal".That's also how I feel about The Band.So, there's MY connection.........

Posted on Sun Jul 15 19:13:12 CEST 2001 from pool-63.49.29.119.mmph.grid.net (63.49.29.119)

Dexy

Lil, I once fell asleep -- if you can believe it -- at a Bachman Turner Overdrive concert. As loud as it was... (please no offense to Mr. Donabie, Mr. Hudson, Mr. Robertson and any other friends from Mr. Bachman's northern land)

Posted on Sun Jul 15 18:25:11 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-019.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.19)

Peter Viney

One of the many versions of the Hollywood Bowl 1970 concert was a 2 LP double set entitled “The Best of The Band & Jethro Tull In Concert” with a bootleg of each. So back in 1971, someone else obviously saw a connection. When Martin Barre replaced Mick Abrahams, the rather clichéd blues solos were replaced with thoughtful acoustic guitar work (which was why Abrahams got replaced, I guess), reminding me of John Mayall’s drummerless band a year or two earlier. That’s the era I remember best. I think that like Fairport Convention, they were seeking out something English that explored thepast as The Band had. My opinion was that the Band had access to a richer mix to draw upon. I saw Blodwyn Pig also. Poor material which was well-played, which was common in England in contrast to some American bands at that time who had far better material but were too blown away to do it justice … no names. Oh, OK, Airplane, the Doors.

Anyone seen Country Joe recently? Is he worth a 60 mile drive?

Posted on Sun Jul 15 17:54:18 CEST 2001 from spider-tf021.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.181)

Tommy

JTullFan,,,If you wanna get other people listening to Tull,I don't think you should do it with Catfish Rising and JTull.Com.......Those are pretty weak albums when compared to Tull's earlier,more adventurous and creative stuff.This Was,Benefit,AQUALUNG,Stand Up,War Child,Thick As A Brick(which is in no way "jamming"...everything on that album is very intricate and deliberate),,,these albums are the jewels in the crown, for me at least(And I know there are some I forgot)..

Tull went from a blues band, to a progressive band to a new age music group (which I don't care for really).There's gotta be something that some of you guys would enjoy.

Posted on Sun Jul 15 17:48:29 CEST 2001 from kin-on50-087.netcom.ca (142.154.52.87)

Janza Findlay

Who do I contact to set up a performance with georgette fry??

Posted on Sun Jul 15 17:34:47 CEST 2001 from spider-tm011.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.46)

JTull fan

Peter: Don't get rid of any of your music! Guaranteed, as soon as you sell a CD (for maybe $2.00 nowadays, and that's with the confusing, green, US coinage)you will discover it had something you desperately want to hear. Regarding my diverse likes of Tull and TheBand: Musically, the are oil and water, at least on the surface, but I have a lot of different tastes which I won't even try to get into here. Sinatra, Elvis, Moody Blues (I know, *blush*)Kinks, Zappa, Blues, Beatles, Steely Dan, Procol Harum, Roger Waters, Brian Wilson, Nirvana, Little anthony and the Imperials..if you get the picture. Tull and the Band are just my two biggest loves, and they do have this in common: Basically non-commercial, idiosyncratic, great lyrics, uncommon use of instruments (flute, Garth's experiments)longevity, songs based on cultural tradition, small but dedicated fan base,etc. etc. Nothing Tull has done can touch Big Pink or the Brown album, and Passion Play is perhaps Tull's weakest. however, Tull still has it's guiding force in IA, have long since moved beyond their Aqualung/Thick as a Brick Days, and still are exploring new and more complex musical territory. Peter: check out Jethro Tull Dot Com from 1999, Ian Anderson's 'Secret Language of Birds from last year( really a Tull album with other members playing as well)and Catfish rising from 1991 to see what I mean.

Posted on Sun Jul 15 17:25:51 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp97.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.97)

Diamond Lil

So.. I just sat down to read out little local paper here, to find out that our own Jimmy Weider played last night not more than 10 minutes from my house, at a little place called Brandow's & Co. And to make it worse, I passed by there last night on my way somewhere else. Geez. Very nice photo of him and local musician/artist Roger Mason though. If I can figure out how to hook up the scanner my son bought me for my birthday, I'll send the photo to Jan. Don't hold your breath though...as I am admittedly technologically and mechanically challenged :-)

Off to work now I guess. Hope everyone's enjoying their weekend.

Posted on Sun Jul 15 15:14:37 CEST 2001 from spider-tq042.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.62)

Dave ~ (the drummer)

HEY CANUCKS : Please forward any articles about Levon + the Barnburners to the GB or my E/mail address. Wish I could have been there for Levon's "homecoming." Peace, D.W.

Posted on Sun Jul 15 13:53:30 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp204.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.204)

Diamond Lil

John D: Thanks so much for sharing the wonderful night of Levon's homecoming with us! I'm really happy that you finally got to hear how incredible the BB's are. I'm looking forward to hopefully catching them again next time they're back in my neck of the woods.

DaveZ: Hmm.. I have a vague recollection of waking up just in time to hear the second-from-last-tune at an Eagles concert in '76... :-)

Have a good day everyone.

Posted on Sun Jul 15 13:32:40 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-084.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.84)

Peter Viney

Perhaps pressure should be brought in Canada to emulate the wisdom of New Orleans and Liverpool. A short flight from Toronto (Robbie Robertson) to London (Garth Hudson) would be a ticket I’d have to obtain. But when you look at in print, the surnames look so Canadian anyway that without the first name it might be unremarkable.

Benn Pikke, I don’t dismiss The Doors outright. I just say they made two good singles, ‘Hello, I Love You’ and ‘Light My Fire’ which cause me to turn up the volume whenever they come on the radio. Otherwise I believe that Morrison was untalented at anything except self-publicity, and the rest were weak musicians at the time of the recordings. I’m told they’ve got good since, but I’m not really interested. I saw Jethro Tull several times in their first couple of incarnations and thoroughly enjoyed them. I don’t own any of their later albums though, and haven’t followed their career in any detail. There are too many bands to follow them all, and I have far too many records already. Does anyone else look at rows of albums and think ‘there are a lot there I’ll never listen to again.’ Trouble is, I don’t know which ones so am loathe to get rid of any! \

Posted on Sun Jul 15 10:53:44 CEST 2001 from spider-wa022.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.27)

Ben Pike

Tull fan, I find your fandom in these two groups interesting; allthough, truth be known, I like Tull also. I went to see them a few years back and was disapointed that Anderson played allmost no guitar, allthough I thought the Tull acostic CD was a snoozer. It would be interesting to know how those who have labasted Roberston's lyrics on Cahoots feel about say, "Passion Play" as an epic poem? How do those who hate "Genetic Method" feel about the jamming sections on "Thick As A Brick?" Shouldn't Peter Vinney, who dismisses the Doors outright, be forced to admit he would rather play "Waiting For The Sun" than "Heavy Horses" or many others? Isn't the one creative one man show of Tull the opposite of the ultimate shared effort group, The Band?

Posted on Sun Jul 15 07:33:30 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.68.62.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.68.62)

Pat Brennan

Oh yes, many thanks to John Donabie for his report. Sounds fantastic. Must have been a great night for Levon. He deserves many more.

Posted on Sun Jul 15 07:24:17 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.68.62.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.68.62)

Pat Brennan

Hank, I really have to disagree with you on this "they" conspiracy. However, first of all, you have pointed out the fatal flaw of the Confederacy: how can you create a strong nation that can defend its own self interests when the political basis of that nation is the pre-eminence of the individual states' rights? Well, the Confederate experiment proved you can't. Still, the South did attempt to create a nation and regarded itself as a nation and did a lot of things a nation normally does. I don't think I'm giving the Confederacy more than its due by claiming there was a rather powerful strain of Southern nationalism present at that period. Booth of course was a spy; impossible to argue with that.

There is really no credible evidence that there was some vast conspiracy to kill Lincoln. BTW, The other attempts on Lincoln's life were also the responsibility of Booth--one, however, reportedly was an attempted kidnapping. These other attempts are not well documented. The most interesting of these is the presence of Booth and his crew in photos of Lincoln's Second Inauguration. Still, your view that Lincoln was killed by Radical Republicans is flawed. At the same time Lincoln was shot, Booth's crew tried to kill a number of other high officials in the Federal government, all in an attempt to spin Washington into a state of chaos and rally flagging Southern spirits. There is absolutely no evidence that Booth was working with people intent on a harsh "reconstruction" of the South. He was, as I said before, a Southern spy whose virulent Southern nationalism led him to kill Lincoln in an attempt to reignite the dying Confederate spirit. Also, he was shot in a barn but died up against a tree. He was shot by a Federal cavalryman who happened to be a religious fanatic who said God told him to disobey the strict orders to take Booth alive. So perhaps God is at the base of this whole conspiracy thing.

Good luck getting those Dylan tickets.

Posted on Sun Jul 15 07:05:32 CEST 2001 from spider-we012.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.22)

Dave Z

BWNWIT, I respectfully beg to differ on VA & MD thing... pretty Southern but come to MN and I'll buy you a beer and try to make you believe Iowa is Southern... Hank: Best of luck in Killkenny... John D: Thanks for the BOOST!!!! I'm further on up the road waiting for next Wed BB show... and I'm siked!!!!!!!! Congrats Dylan Girl... hope yours is as cute and healthy as mine... And a belated thanks for the congrats Pehr!!! Tommy: I hope you are a young man... my posts are drunken too... but I have found when I got older I did not need all the booze to do this... But you do lead me to a possible thread... best concert you don't remember because you were wrecked... for me it's the Dead... I had a tough time staying awake at one point after enjoying all the tailgating in the Old Met Stadium parking lot...

Posted on Sun Jul 15 04:59:20 CEST 2001 from dialup-299.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.43)

HANK

Well, I'm sure there's one thing we all agree on .....The South was crushed after that war.....and therein lies the root of much sadness in The USA to this day.....what a GB.....I've learned alot from reading all your Civil War posts....Thanks!

Bob Dylan in Killkenny tommorrow night!....I have'nt got a ticket yet....but hey!....there's a whole day to do that tommorrow......Full report, one way or the other on Monday, folks.......

Bring The Barnburners to Europe!!!!!!!!

Posted on Sun Jul 15 04:35:32 CEST 2001 from spider-tl024.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.184)

Tommy

Thanks Peter.....I never thought of it like that.

Posted on Sun Jul 15 02:36:42 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti064.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.179)

JTull fan

BWNWITN: Virginia is a suburb of DC? Granted, Northern VA may be, but the rest of the state certainly is not. Certainly, there are plenty of Northern transplants here, but there are also a lot of Southern transplants up North, particularly just about every person of African descent! Let's not forget the 'Great black migration' away from the tenant farms to the industries of Chicago, New York, and everywhere else up North. And yes, black people are Southerners, even if they do not share the same complexions and attitudes of your everyday redneck. To think otherwise would be unintentionally rascist. They have changed the north as much as Yankee transplants have changed the South. But OK, I will accept your position that Virginia is not of the South. In turn, please accept that Patsy Cline, Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, JEB Stuart, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, James Madison, the Taylors, Fitzhughs, William Fontaine Maury, AP Hill, George Pickett, Arthur Ashe, Clarence Clemens, James Monroe,(all Virginians) and many more, are hereby removed from official Southern Culture. I think that leaves the South with Nathan Bedford Forrest, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, and Garth Brooks. It's a deal!

Posted on Sun Jul 15 00:44:10 CEST 2001 from proxy.lfpress.com (204.101.153.10)

Mike Nomad

Thnx John Donabie for the Dollar report, and keep us apprised on recording dvpts. Missed T.O. by three days, hafta work tonite, darn it, but tomorrow looks promising for London, Ont.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 22:51:40 CEST 2001 from (209.250.142.186)

Stanley Landau

John D., sorry I missed you too. I gotta say I was truly blown away. I wish I could have stayed for the second set, but family comittments did not permit. I thought Levon looked great. My only dissapointment was that Ms. Amy did not perform more. These people exude talent and personality. I've never been a big time fan of the blues as such, but after hearing that performance I may become one. Hopefully next time they will play at a larger and less smoky venue. Dare I say it but the quality of the music and the tightness were .... Band like.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 22:32:25 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-118-75.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.118.75)

BWNWITennessee

A few months ago I heard some thing on NPR explaining that Lincoln really was, by definition, a tyrant. They had a big long explanation, most of which I forget, but I think they said the EP was actually unconstitutional, thus forcing his will upon that of the people. Or something like that.

Come on, Virginia's not REALLY a Southern state, especially in this day and age. It's about as Southern as Maryland and Delaware (and Florida). With the exception of the southern and western portions, it's basically a big suburb of Washington, D.C. I think people from there try to pretend that they're Southern - like lots of people like to pretend they're Irish - and they have history to back them up, but culturally it's got a pretty Northern feel. And I'm talking about culture, which is what the South is really about, not geography or history.

bassmanlee, you forgot one part of the equation. A damn Yankee comes to the South and stays, a god-damn Yankee brings his family. But seein' as how the South has pretty much become the hotbed for immigrant settlement in America, (kind of ironic, especially since they seem to be pretty well accepted, in a region so accused of prejudice. The Hispanic population in Nashville has increased something like 500% in about three or four years, and I really haven't heard of much racial unrest. I doubt that would be the case in a lot of Northern cities.), I don't think that anyone from the North really has to worry about feeling uncomfortable, except for perhaps in the smallest of backwater towns. Nowadays, it's more like if you can speak English, you've got something in common.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 21:17:06 CEST 2001 from spider-wa081.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.56)

Joe

Thanks John D. for the Toronto report. Sounds promising for the BB's......Couldn't be happier for them! Just sorry I missed the show.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 20:59:46 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-178.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.178)

Peter Viney

A non-Band, (but Canadian) question. Robert Lepage’s stunning theatrical production of ‘The Far Side of The Moon’ (with recorded music by Laurie Anderson). Saw it today in London. I was left with two questions. First, as it was originally performed in Quebec City, was it originally done in French or in English? The script in English was brilliant. The programme doesn’t give the answer. Secondly he read a translation of a poem by a French-Canadian poet called “Elim (somebody)”. I didn’t catch the surname. I’m hoping that some of the Canadians here might know the surname. The only extremely vague Band link is that one scene takes place on the Plains of Abraham (where ‘you can watch courting couples make-out”). Not enough of a link to post a reply in the GB perhaps, nor for related artist status, but if you know please e-mail me.

Tommy, only the sober would comment adversely on drunken posts. Perhaps this explains the silence.

Hank- Mickey Jones was perfect for that 1966 tour, I feel. As I quoted (Richard Williams, I think) there was a noticeable improvement in the Hawks + Mickey Jones over earlier fragments of tape, possibly because the other four had grown into the set better by then, perhaps because subtlety wasn’t what was needed at the time. I wish Mickey had come on in TLW and joined Levon on twin kits. I’m sure there was no “competition” about it.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 20:57:40 CEST 2001 from spider-tl072.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.207)

Tommy

Erin, I'm glad that I can add to our great language....even if it is in a drunken stupor.

John D...Toronto sounded like a blast!I gotta see the Barn Burners soon!Luckily enough, I just recieved in the mail the Muddy Waters Woodstock album.That should sate my Levon and blues cravings for now.I'm gonna go listen to it now.Have fun, kids........

Posted on Sat Jul 14 18:50:10 CEST 2001 from ip-63-121-116-174.new-castle.de.fcc.net (63.121.116.174)

bassmanlee

Back from the road, where I been readin' the GB but not writin'. Hard to keep up! On the way picked up a used copy of "Jerico"! A fine album that fits well with the 'Before' catalog IMHO. Can't see why "Atlantic City" gets such raves, but Bruce himself doesn't thrill me much either. It's actually kind of a dumb song. (Also, note to all recording artists: animal noises on recordings wear thin very quickly!) Had previously picked up "Jubulation". Not as satisfying a disc, and somewhat saddening as the deterioration of both Rick and Levon's voices hint at things to come. Still some wonderful tracks, though.

Enjoyed the Civil War/Flag discussions. Since I've just got done being a Yankee in the South, I've got to say that at least in central VA, the feeling of being a stranger in a strange land is certainly less strong than it was 20 years ago. Maybe it's the presence of so many 'Damn Yankees'. (Q: What's the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee? A: A Yankee goes home.) I think a parallel can be drawn between the post-Civil War so-called Reconstruction to the treatment of Germany after WWI. Had either been handled with a bit more sensitivity and tact, less retribution, condescension and greed, perhaps the consequences (continued sujugation of Blacks on one hand and the Nazi rise and WWII on the other) may have been lessened or avoided.

Enjoyed the comment (John Cass?) about finding a Chet Atkins record he wasn't aware he owned... as a record collector since the age of 10, I can relate. Holed up in the back room catching up with y'all (see I have been down South), and listening to old vinyl, pulled out a 1976 LP "Prisms" on Shelter by a female duo named Lyons & Clark. Nice record, backing by Tom Scott, Larry Carlton, Steve Gadd, etc., so it sounds in spots like a Joni record of the period. Wondering if anyone knows what became of them. Search found a reference that indicates Pam Clark is now Pamela Clark-King, but all further links were dead. Neither ASCAP nor BMI list her. Anyone out there know?

And lastly, maybe rather than nominating for the RRHOC, we could start a "what we listen to when we are not listening to the Band" thread. Might be a nice way to find recommendations about music and artist we have never heard from the perspective of someone who's taste already overlaps ours in at least one respect.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 16:12:53 CEST 2001 from pool-63.49.29.68.mmph.grid.net (63.49.29.68)

Ol' Dexy Down

Thanks John Donabie for the great description of Levon in Toronto. I'm going to see if the Toronto Sun (right?) has a story. (and, because of the stars&stripes stream, I have reverted to my original GB moniker this one time only)

Posted on Sat Jul 14 15:47:33 CEST 2001 from spider-wo071.proxy.aol.com (205.188.200.51)

JTull fan

Weekend!!!!!!! Just a few thoughts: I think the Civil War discussion Peter and I touched off over the Stars & bars has been fantastic. I don't agree with everything out here but I have to say 99% of the comments have been intellectually sound. These arguements can never truly be settled, but that is what 'living history' means. Isn't it sad that any high school student could possibly find history 'boring'? It makes me want to shake them! There exist several great Civil War periodicals and uncountable Civil-War Roundtables, even in Europe, which usually meet monthly to discuss the types of things we are discussing here. I encourage anybody interested to seek them out. For further reading, I recommend 'Lincoln' by David Herbert Donald, 'Robert E. Lee: a Biography' by Emory Thomas (OK I am biased, he was my professor)'Stonewall Jackson' by James Robertson, and 'Why the South Lost The Civil War' eassays by Herman Hatthaway(another of my former professors) and others. It has a great argument that Southern battle tactics resembled that of the Scotts-Irish vs. the Norths tactics of the English (I apologize for not going into further depth as I first read it 5 years ago) but it is worth seeking out.I do not even want to go into the motivations of John Wilkes Booth as this would get very involved, but worth your time to investigate! another tidbit: 1 week prior to Lincoln's assassination, he walked the streets of Richmond (days after it fell) with little or no escort, and he was unharmed and unthreatened!I don't want to draw too many conclusions from this, it's just ironic that he is unharmed here, and shot blocks from the White House (you can still see his bloodstained pillow at the Pederson House, where he was carried across the street after getting shot and died the next morning. It is a very emotional sight)Lincoln also had been shot at several times in DC throughout the war, incidentally.Now, was the Confederacy a nation? Absolutely. Secession was done by vote in each state in a practice beleived to be legal under the constitution. Both the revolution and Second American Revolution were CONSERVATIVE, not RADICAL revolts. The colonists were attempting to 'preserve our rights as Englishmen', Southerners sought to preserve their 'rights and dignity as Americans'. Neither sought a new societal order. Lastly to my fellow Tull fan in New York: listed on this sight is a 1968 show featuring both Tull and The Band!

Posted on Sat Jul 14 15:47:50 CEST 2001 from 24.101.160.143.on.wave.home.com (24.101.160.143)

John D

p.s. Levon, after playing so hard always had time to sign any and all autographs from the fans. I also wanted to mention that I really wanted to meet Stanley Landau; but missed him.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 15:40:32 CEST 2001 from 24.101.160.143.on.wave.home.com (24.101.160.143)

John D

Ahhhhh...It's early in the morning and I've just had my first taste of The Barnburners. I don't see how I could add any more to what guestbook folk have been saying over the past year ; when seeing this group. They blew me away!

The scene started earlier when I met up with Levon at his hotel room and we laughed and reminiced. Turned out the hotel he was staying in; which is now a Ramada Inn was the orginal building that housed the Hawks Nest. All these years I thought the first Hawks nest was at Le Coq' Dor 333 Yonge St. All the Hawks lived up on the 9th floor and played downstairs. As Levon said, "I've come full circle." We jumped in a cab and made our way over to the club. When his old Toronto fans saw him get out of the cab , it could have been the red carpet at the Academy Awards. People were screaming and yelling out his name. Levon , Miss Amy and I went in to the club.

Minutes later it was show time. We were running a little late and you could hear the foot stomping and the chants of "LEVON, LEVON." When the crowd saw him and the Barnburners.....the cheers let out and the blues began. They were tight and ready. It's interesting that Chris O'leary said to me that they really wanted to be "on" for Levon's homecoming. And "on" they were. My job which I have not discussed before is to help in any way I can to get the Barnburners recorded. I made sure that the Head of A&R from Capitol Canada ( a division of EMI that Levon totally trusts because of President Deane Cameron) was there......as well as the head of Marketing and A&R for Rounder Records (Canadian Division) Let's just say they were both blown away. Each of them went out of their way to talk about the great vocal talent of Miss Amy as well.

Ronnie Hawkins was not able to make it into town; but many old musician friends showed up and the excitement got higher. Suddenly who shows up; but a man who loves the blues, promotes the blues and was home working on a project, Blues Brother Dan Ackroyd. The house was rockin.

I just want to say how nice it was to meet Donna 1 and 2 and the G-Man. I never did meet Brown-eyed girl and I missed the opportunity to meet the widow of the great ex Hawk and Band member Stan Szelest. Windsor and London.......your in for a great week-end. I wish so many of you guestbook regulars could have been there for Levon's Homecoming. Time for breakfast now.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 15:39:19 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

Talking about American history......lets not forget Winnetou, Old Shatterhand, The Mohicans and Roy Rogers......

Posted on Sat Jul 14 15:02:30 CEST 2001 from (210.50.34.97)

Erin

Hey Tommy: I love the fact you post drunk oftenly. It adds a certain something.

And as to the newly coined word 'oftenly,' I think it's a great addition to the language, albeit a fairly gratuitous one. One of the great strengths of English as a poetic language is its vast number of more or less gratuitous words. The more the merrier...

Posted on Sat Jul 14 13:06:58 CEST 2001 from dialup-374.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.118)

Hank

JW Booth was a deranged actor......after he shot Lincoln in that theatre he jumped on to the stage and yelled "Sic Semper Tyrannis" (Thus Always to Tyrants) and everybody thought it was part of the act.....I could be COMPLETELY wrong, of course, but I doubt if he was acting alone in shooting Lincoln. He was the front man and died in a burning barn for his sins.... To claim he was a "Southern Nationalist who spied for The Confederacy" is giving him AND The South more credit than they are due........first of all, what kind of "nation" was The South? It was, by it's own admission, a "confederacy", NOT a nation. Does anyone think that the people of Virginia REALLY cared about the people of Mississippi in 1860 and vice versa?.....those states entered the war one by one.....NOT as a nation....They took up arms in an effort to preserve their own states right to determine it's own destiny and not be dictated to by Washington ( STILL an issue in The USA today)..... if the "The Confederacy" had won the war, the chances are that the different states within that area would have squabbled and fought amongst themselves over the usual territorial and resource issues and brought great instability to the whole area. Lincoln fought the war on the basis of helping The USofA, North and South, realise it's fantastic potential........when the war was over, Lincolns concern was in rebuilding the nation and not alienating the southern states even more.......this was the attitude from the time that Lee surrendered to Grant.......Grant told defeated Southern troops to take their horses home for spring ploughing......A very important act because usually the victorious army would take EVERYTHING in reparation; horses, arms, provisions.........Hey now, don't get me wrong PAT BRENNAN or anyone else.....I'm not saying Lincoln was a saint or that it all woulda been perfect for Black and White America if he had lived hooooray!......but he DID stand in the way of the business of revenge which was so obviously there for the taking in post-civil war America.They will get you for that.......whoever "they" are at any given time

With regards to "I Don't Believe You"......I guess at any time you could say...."it used to be like THAT....now it goes like THIS!!!"......I wonder will he play it in Killkenny on Sunday.......

Posted on Sat Jul 14 10:03:14 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tb082.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.57)

Tommy

Hellooooooooo friends...Right now, I am DRUNK.

(I find it strange that I've been signing this GB for almost a year now and so far, NO ONE has ccommented on the fact that I am oftenly(is that a word?) drunk .

Either way...

I am looking forward to an expanded version of TLW ,if only for the reason that I started to post here on the BG on behalf of The Last Waltz( I was probably complaining that we didn't see RICHARD enough...)And since,I have "met" many nice... cool people here...Let's get in there , folks...

Posted on Sat Jul 14 08:03:03 CEST 2001 from dialup-166.90.70.215.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (166.90.70.215)

Pat Brennan

Lincoln was killed by a Southern nationalist who spied for the Confederacy. He was not killed for refusing to rub the South's face in its defeat. In fact, Booth was shocked that his actions were condemned all across the country.

To me, "I Don't Believe You" from the Last Waltz sounds really rushed. I think Micky Jones was perfect for that gig as the music benefitted from his heavier slam as opposed to Levon's light touch. Just my opinion. And let's not forget that Levon is wonderful on Before The Flood, but it is indeed a different animal than 1966.

Erin, as is obvious from much of the Civil War discussion here, there are elements of the conflict that exist in a hazy shade of gray (or blue, I suppose). I rarely get involved in the morality of the issues as I tend to think politics has no morals, neither then nor now. To be brief, I am amazed by the bravery of the soldiers on both sides, and I enjoy working that territory.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 05:25:48 CEST 2001 from (210.50.86.239)

Erin

Hank: yeah, I agree. But the song is not all about what happened after the war: Virgil takes a 'rebel stand' just like his brother who a 'Yankee laid in his grave.'

I got a new Sonny Boy Williamson cd today - I don't know if its possible to overrate that guy, he's great. It was really funny to read the liner notes about him scoring the gig in the radio station in Helena, and to know that Levon was sitting watching some of those shows.

Also some great links this morning and great news about a possibile new Dylan cd.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 05:10:53 CEST 2001 from parachute2-156-40-65-164.net.nih.gov (156.40.65.164)

Jonathan Katz

Article about Elliot Landy.

VOTE

Posted on Sat Jul 14 05:05:14 CEST 2001 from dialup-320.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.64)

HANK

JTull Fan!...you never know....one day we'll OPEN the KITCHEN down in Dixie-land and rap of The Band and Tull and crack a few cans open, fer sure.......

TLW version of "I Don't Believe You" is WAY better than the version on The Albert Hall version........I'm sorry....I know it's great'n'all but Mickey Jones don't do the Biz with me on that gig.....too many silly rolls you'd NEVER hear Levon do.......SOME of his playing is alright....but the thing suffers badly without Levon.........

Posted on Sat Jul 14 02:52:04 CEST 2001 from proxy.ord.netsetter.com (64.0.99.137)

Just Wonderin'

Hi everyone! Haven't got time to read all the posts as I am on someone else's computer so I don't know if this has been posted yet...Small article in Rolling Stone states that there is going to be a DVD release of TLW sometime next year with new material. Also another Band box is in the works.

\Really looking forward the Levon and The Barnburners this Sunday in London ON.

Posted on Sat Jul 14 01:28:00 CEST 2001 from spider-tp041.proxy.aol.com (152.163.204.191)

Tommy

I'd rather see these airports and other public facilities named after people who have done some good,and brought some happiness (and sometimes even made a considerable mark on music/art/etc,ie,Lennon and Louis Armstrong)to others instaed of them being named after some war "hero".dictator,political head or any other empty position.I know it sounds corny, but it's the way I feel.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 22:34:04 CEST 2001 from slip-12-64-143-248.mis.prserv.net (12.64.143.248)

DP

Heard from the Radio station, Garth is not going to be with Prof. Louie this trip. Just got to wear the shirt in spirit. No excuse not to go, Sunday night in Atlanta and it is free!!!!!

Posted on Fri Jul 13 22:21:26 CEST 2001 from (130.219.229.173)

BK

Short but nice article about Levon and the BB's at the web page above. Nothing new, really, but some nice comments about music getting him through the tough times.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 21:46:12 CEST 2001 from 1cust68.tnt2.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.108.68)

HI

A new Dylan album with new material, called "Love and Theft" is suppose to be out in September..he plays piano with his current band plus Augie Meyers on keys...Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 21:14:16 CEST 2001 from spider-wj013.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.23)

bob wigo

Another fine tribute. Soon we'll be flying out of Lennon with a layover at Presley arriving at Armstrong.

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - With a pen stroke, Mayor Marc Morial officially renamed the city's suburban airport to Louis Armstrong New Orleans International. On Wednesday, Morial signed into law an ordinance renaming the airport in honor of the city's most famous native son. Though the name change is legally in effect, changes in signs at the airport likely won't come until fall. City officials said a ceremony to unveil a new design and logo will be held at the airport Aug. 2, two days before the 100th anniversary of the famous trumpeter's birth. Last week, the New Orleans City Council unanimously approved the name change, which had been sought by jazz buffs for many years.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 21:07:00 CEST 2001 from spider-ti024.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.184)

franko

For all the guitar players out there, this month's Guitar World Acoustic magazine contains the tabs for The Weight. Now I have two ways to play the intro. Ah, the little things in life. Jonathan, I voted but I'm not sure it did much good - the hill looks much too steep to climb this time. Al Stewart is about the only artist that they are ahead of.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 20:56:38 CEST 2001 from (209.166.233.21)

Jon Lyness

Nice interview with Elliot Landy, where he talks about the Band & shooting the classic Big Pink photos...click on link above.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 20:54:10 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Tommy & Bones: I thought it might be interesting to note that Rhino is doing things a little bit differently with the upcoming Elvis Costello reissues. Each album will be packaged as a 2-CD set (for the price of one disc!). Disc one will contain the album as it was originally released. The bonus material will be presented on the second disc. Each reissue will contain liner notes by Mr. Costello himself, along with printed lyrics.

The entire Elvis Costello catalog (including both his Columbia & Warner Bros. material) will be released in batches of three, grouped together thematically rather than chronologically. "My Aim Is True", "Spike" and "All This Useless Beauty" will be released first on August 21, followed by "This Year's Model", "Blood & Chocolate" and "Brutal Youth" in November.

Also upcoming from Rhino, for those who haven't heard -- the much anticipated Buffalo Springfield 4-CD box set is scheduled to be released next Tuesday (July 17). Keep your fingers crossed and hope Mr. Young doesn't change his mind.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 20:30:58 CEST 2001 from inktomi1-man.server.ntl.com (62.252.192.4)

Jakob Illeborg

Just saluting one of the greates acts ever. All the best from Danish band 'CIRCUS'

Posted on Fri Jul 13 20:24:09 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tb051.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.41)

Tommy

I agree with you ,Bones.It can be distracting sometimes to have a bunch of extras (even though they are good and enjoyable)tacked onto a classic album.I find I never really get to the extra stuff that way (except for The Band Reissues.....Those are OK,probably cause the extras are so good and not so many).That's why I am keeping my old Band cds.So whenever I get the urge to listen to Big Pink in and of itself,I can.

I'll see how the Elvis Costello stuff is and decide then if I'm gonna get it or not.

While drinkin' last night, me,my brother and two friends raised our JD and sent one out to George Harrison.Let's all hope he gets through THIS too.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 19:20:33 CEST 2001 from (198.23.26.253)

ACROSS THE GREAT DIVIDE

I am looking for info. on a Band concert that supposedly took place at the Stephen Talkhouse, Amangansett, NY on 10-14-96. If anyone went to this show or can give me info. on this can you please confirm the date and the setlist. Thanks...Ron

Posted on Fri Jul 13 19:25:05 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

Tommy: Yes! That is correct, for they are reissuing My Aim Is True for the third time. I like this format better. It bothers me sometimes to listen to classic albums followed by a bunch of demos and extra tracks.

It is now mid July, which begs the question.....Is Sea To The North still set for release in a couple of days. I can't wait!

Posted on Fri Jul 13 19:07:49 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

JTULL Fan

Hank: I appreciate your thoughtful and informed comments. Too bad we aren't close enough to grab a cold one and discuss it while walking one of the battlefields around here...

Posted on Fri Jul 13 16:54:51 CEST 2001 from 146.mercerville-08-09rs.nj.dial-access.att.net (12.78.143.146)

Chris Popp

Hi Everyone,

I'm a singer and songwriter from New Jersey, and also a big fan of The Band. Last December I wrote a song about those guys. I decided it might be a good idea to post the lyrics here and see what you all Band experts think of 'em. So, here they are:

SONG ABOUT THE BAND

Johnnie Walker Red, Johnnie Walker Black / Richard and Van were drinking in the back / Garth was a-noodlin' on his favorite horn / Rick was playing mandolin till the early morn /

Levon Helm rides a tractor most these days / Robbie R. slings Stratocaster toast these ways / The whispering pines don't say no words no more / And nobody don't go knockin' on nobody's door /

They were a band / They were a band / They were a band / They were a band /

Copyright 2001, All Rights Reserved.

I'd definitely appreciate any feedback you all have to offer. Feel free to email me and/or visit my website. Both addresses are above. Hope you all are having a great summer, and keep on rockin'!

Chris

Posted on Fri Jul 13 16:52:07 CEST 2001 from spider-wj012.proxy.aol.com (205.188.198.22)

bob wigo

Word is that the great Ronnie Hawkins will be dropping in on tonight's proceedings at the Silver Dollar in Toronto. The Barnburners will have a little extra gas to throw on the fire. I wish I could be there to share in Levon's very special "homecoming".

Can't wait for the reports from John, G-Man, Donna and all the other fine folks who are making the trip or have waited so long for the opportunity to see Levon and his great band perform live. Have a great time everyone and please check in as soon as possible.

"I'd rather be burned in Canada than to freeze here in the south."

Posted on Fri Jul 13 16:44:48 CEST 2001 from (198.23.26.253)

ACROSS THE GREAT DIVIDE

Dedicated to the "Live" band experience, Many successful trades made already! Don't miss out, whether you are a "newbie" or a seasoned trader check us out, you won't be disappointed.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 16:14:15 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Peter: New Zealand Montana Merlot has a certain ring to it. Would have made a decent name for a progrock band in the '70s, a la Primiata Forneri Marconi. By the way, did you notice that you called the Union Flag the British flag in one post, and then insisted that it isn't in your next?

Hank: I think I agreed with most of what you wrote, but I don't see how most of the bigotry that the US South was known for in the past is attributable to Yankee carpetbagging. Anti-Northerner bias sure, but certainly not the infamous racial bigotry. It's not as if the freed slaves were given the keys to the kingdom or anything.

Erin: I tend to see the US Civil War as South bad, North good, but I love "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down". Politics and humanity are, in most places at most times, kept apart. But among life's certainties is that when the politics gets ugly and the shooting starts, the Virgil Caines of the world get to be targets.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 14:57:49 CEST 2001 from dialup-302.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.46)

Hank

The American Civil War........never did a war have so many names....The War of Northern Aggression.......The War of Secession......and a few more besides, I'm sure........It's been great to read everyones submissions on this thread.......The Civil War was about each individual states right to determine its own destiny.........as opposed to slavery per se........it could have been ANYTHING that sparked off that war........but it HAD to be the slavery issue.....Don't forget, New Hampshire or Maine tried to leave the Union in the 1790ies over the federal tax on whiskey.........Troops were sent in to quell that rebellion, too......

Despite all the revisionist literature you'll read and see these days, Lincoln was the man for the job......his idea was to keep the nation strong as one unified entity....that way, it could face up to any threat from abroad (a reality in those days) and grow strong with all the obvious natural resources that the North American continent had to offer. ......what's more is that Lincoln did'nt want to rub the Souths face in it when they lost....he took a bullet for that.....after a war, there are folks who smell profit in the business of revenge and with Lincoln out of the way, the carpet-baggers and their ilk were allowed to go and plunder The South and destroy what had been a proud society and exploit a newly freed people....thus the hatred that exists to this day.........and THAT, ERIN, is what "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" is all about....'you take what you need and you leave the rest'.......The carpet baggers took the very best and drove the survivors of the war to extremes of hatred and bigotry

The South Will Rise Again?.........It's about time someone told The KKK and all these Fascist White Supremcists that The South DID rise again and take over the world with Rock'n'Roll......and that the music that these ex-rebels and ex-slaves made crosses all boundaries and is more powerful than politics or the biggest gun you can hide in your basement.....but then again, I guess you'll always have people bent on revenge and the thrill of shooting guns as opposed to listening to and dancing to and enjoying music.......

Posted on Fri Jul 13 14:52:14 CEST 2001 from host.domain.com (64.23.165.18)

JTull Fan

What great comments on the Confederate flag! And I mean that sincerely. It's too bad most people are not as thoughtful on the subject. Peter Viney: I am glad you did not take my statements personally as I was worried that you would. As a person whose formal studies are in history I am frequently frustrated by the general publics ignorance of important issues all the while expressing opinions in strong terms; this is probably the way Peter feels when someone calls Van Morrison a pop star! Anyways, glad we had such a good airing of views. Ironically, what we consider the COnfederate Flag IS NOT the Stars & Bars. ( I am guilty of the misnomer too). It is the COnfederate Battle flag, with the blue bars crossed over red which has been coopted and misused, and it is this flag that was moved by South Carolina. The Stars & Bars, or offical Confederate flag, consists of 2 red and one white horizontal bars with a blue square in the upper left corner consisting of 7 stars in a circle.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 10:58:41 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-104.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.104)

Peter Viney

Thanks to Pat, Erin, Dave, J Tull fan for an informed and informative discussion, which was lit by a remark which I hadn’t expected to generate so much, if anything at all. Let me add a little more. In Britain, our flag is far, far less apparent than the flag is in the USA. If someone in Britain had a flagpole on their lawn (a) the planning authorities would order its removal (b) people would assume the owner were extremely right-wing. But I’ve never seen one. Our flag flies over very few public buildings. It will not be seen in schools at all. We don’t pledge allegiance to it. Sure, we have other symbols (like the Queen’s head on money or stamps) but the flag is a bright tourist T-shirt sort of thing to most of us. I am extremely unaccustomed therefore to be in a large crowd of people waving flags. To me this was remarkable, and it is based on the tradition of the annual BBC “Last Night of the Proms” classical concert at the Royal Albert Hall. The orchestra last night was deliberately re-creating the three closing tunes of this event: The Fantasia on Sea Shanties, Jerusalem, and Pomp & Circumstance (aka Land of Hope & Glory). As I said, the flags induced a mild patriotic glow. The flags I meant were the Union Flag or Union Jack, which is red, white and blue. However, there were also a large number of St George’s flags, which is a red cross on white background, which represent England, not Britain or the United Kingdom. This flag, once nearly unused, has been adopted by right-wing groups and also by football fans. There is logic to the latter in that the four countries of the UK have separate sports teams in football and rugby. This year, for the first time ever, the greetings card companies were selling St George’s Day cards for April 23rd. On these cards, a bulldog or a football fan with St George’s cross face paint seemed the preferred emblems, or our rather military dragon-slaying patron saint in full armour. No English roses, or Shakespeare’s birthday emblems! The English flag, which also flutters innocently over the Church of England, has been adopted and perverted by right-wing groups during the last few years, and particularly in the last few months. It was the symbol of neo-fascist thugs at the race riots in the north last week and a couple of weeks ago.

As has been ably pointed out by Pat, the stars and bars, or Confederate Battle flag has been adopted and perverted in the same way by some right-wing groups in the USA. Saying this is neither an attack on the South, nor on those who cherish their flag and regional identity. Often the stars and bars is a regional sort of emblem, in much the same way as we have British flag T-shirts or undershorts, or on little metal plaques on special edition Rover cars. If you were in a crowd watching a concert of tunes with a Southern connotation on a sunny day with a picnic, or watching a Disney parade in Florida with the band playing “Dixie”, the stars and bars would not be alarming in the slightest and would be warmly applauded. At a KKK rally, it would be different. About seven or eight years ago I watched about six Hell’s Angels cruise extremely slowly through the East Village in NYC. They had the stars and bars flying. I don’t think they were proclaiming southern identity. The two police officers who were nearby immediately slipped into a doorway. JTull’s issue has to be with the people who took the flag for their own purposes.

Which leaves me no time for the fascinating historical discussion. But in Britain, the Queen and especially Prince Albert were overtly sympathetic to the CSA, which caused a breach with the government who weren’t, possibly for pragmatic reasons rather tham moral ones. In poor areas in Lancashire which were cotton-dependent for their livlihood, the workers still lined up to protest against slavery and it was a moral issue in the nation as a whole. The Emancipation Proclamation was important in gaining British support, and took the ground away from the CSA sympathizers here.

Glance at page 3 of Mojo, indicating an article further into the mag. A room full of large murals of rock artists has been discovered in a British army barracks abandoned in the mid 70s. The one shown on page 3 reproduces The Time magazine cover of The Band.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 09:07:22 CEST 2001 from roc-24-95-208-75.rochester.rr.com (24.95.208.75)

Dave Hopkins

Erin: no doubt you know a thousand times more about the history of my country than I do about the history of yours. So please don't be shy about participating in this discussion! I generally agree with Pat Brennan's post (and Pat is much more of an expert on the issue than I am), but I have a few thoughts. The likelihood of European nations recognizing the independence of the Confederacy during the Civil War was unclear at the time and remains unclear now. Certainly the threat that England and France might do so was on Lincoln's mind when he signed the Emancipation Proclamation, turning a war which both sides had originally argued was not about slavery into what could be plausibly sold as a moral crusade of sorts. Though home to an influential and growing abolition movement, the North was by no means united over an opposition to slavery. Tellingly, the Emancipation Proclamation freed the slaves in the Confederacy (over which, of course, Lincoln was powerless except for territory occupied by Northern armies), but explicitly did not free slaves in states which had remained in the Union. Had Lincoln pressed the issue, several border states would likely have seceded, and the loss of Maryland in particular would have imperiled the security of Washington. Lincoln, though a longtime opponent of the *expansion* of slavery, had never been an abolitionist (as a politician from the West, it was not politically advantageous for him to be) and, though he may well have come to believe that slavery was wrong, he handled the issue in a very pragmatic way, wary of the consequences.

I'll also add that many people on both sides of the conflict sincerely believed at first that the war would be short and relatively painless. Had the seceded states indeed been forcibly brought back into Union after a matter of weeks or months, Lincoln might well not have seen the need for pressing the abolition issue. (Had the Confederacy won its independence in the same short time frame, of course, the question would have been moot.) By 1863, it was clear to all that we were in for a long and exceptionally bloody war, and undoubtedly Lincoln and others felt that the conflict needed to settle the slavery issue permanently.

I'm often amazed that the controversy over the Confederate flag remains after 140 years -- and then I think of other areas of the world, where similar conflicts over ultimately symbolic issues have raged for far longer. JTull Fan's perspective as a Southerner is well taken, and it is certainly dishonest to imply that everyone who feels some affection or respect for the Stars-and-Bars is a Klan sympathizer. However, much of what makes the Confederate flag divisive is the fact that it was resurrected during the 1960s as a symbol of racial segregation and intolerance -- not just by fringe groups, but by the governments and public officials of several Southern states. The state legislature in South Carolina acted a little while back to remove the Confederate flag from atop the state capitol building, where it had been placed not in the 1870s as a protest against Reconstruction, but in 1962 as a protest against the civil rights movement. Such uses for the flag make it no longer about a dusty old war fought generations ago but about more modern and explosive issues.

Where does this leave us with The Band? Clearly, as Erin suggests, anyone who views the Civil War in black and white terms as a story of "North good, South bad" will be unable to appreciate "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down." But I think that almost anyobody who's studied the war in any detail will realize that the truth is much more complicated. For me, "Dixie" is a reminder that, though we tend to dwell on the Lincolns, Davises, Grants and Lees, the Civil War swept up millions of ordinary folks -- Virgil Canes on *both* sides -- who may have had little concern with the issues at stake but who were forced to risk and often give their lives for them. The wealthy and powerful could buy their way out of the drafts, or hire replacements to serve in their steads, but Virgil and his brother did not have such a choice. The Band's fascinating consideration of how such a person could, after the war and living amidst the chaos and destruction it caused (*especially* in the South), attempt to come to grips intellectually and emotionally with what had happened to him is an amazing accomplishment within the constraints of a three-verse popular song. I could say more, but I've gone on for long enough, and I look forward to other people's thoughts on the subject.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 06:30:31 CEST 2001 from 111.a.006.mel.iprimus.net.au (210.50.44.111)

Erin

Pat: thanks for setting me straight. For an Australian to comment on the American Civil War probably isn't that smart: why go out of your way to put yourself on a hiding to nothing? On the other hand, what I hear about the teaching of Australian History is the U.S. is not so good: The American Civil war isn't especially important to us, I imagine the Eureka Stockade isn't especially important to you guys.

For the record, I said Monash University (that's where I am) didn't teach Civil War history particularly well. I believe our school of Italian Renaissance history is right up there: the Italians seem to think so anyway. In any case, I should say in defense of my teachers that war history isn't my thing - the fault is more likely to be with me than them. Also, at least some of that information didn't come from my proffessors, but rather from U.S. documentaries.

Out of interest, if you accept a view of the Civil War in which the South is just badly, morally wrong, how do you listen to The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down?

Posted on Fri Jul 13 05:56:57 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.114.207.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.114.207)

Pat Brennan

Whew. Speaking of feuds.

First off, Erin. You are correct. You come from a place, like most places, where they don't teach history very well. Slavery is indeed America's fatal flaw, kind of like the programming problem that made Hal go crazy in Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey. Rather than getting into an argument as to the root cause of America's Civil War--which is well beyond the scope of the GB here--I'll just address the particulars of your post.

There was little chance England was about to recognize the South. The Confederacy had badly miscalculated England's need for cotton, and the South made an even worse misjudgement about England's willingness to align itself with a slave power. Some Confederate ships were built in England but only by their owners legally obfuscating their true nature. France kept in line hoping to participate in some Mexican mischief, but they too never seriously came close to recognizing the Confederacy.

Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation because he came to realize that, besides its obvious military benefits, it was the right thing to do. He was a masterful politician who guided a fractured nation through a traumatic time while enacting sweeping social reform.

There were no more desertions in the Federal army after the EP than there were before the EP. However, desertions increased dramatically in the Confederate armies each year following the EP. Historians have argued rather successfully that the EP helped make this happen.

The riots in NYC in July of 1863 were caused primarily by Irish thugs who were protesting the extablishment of the draft. Ironically enough, at the same time the Irish were burning down black orphanages and lynching free black citizens of New York, black Federal troops were assaulting Battery Wagner outside Charleston, SC.

Confederate armies were populated primarily by non-slaveholders. The armies were officered primarily by slaveholders. Very few if any Confederate privates owned slaves. When the war began, almost all Confederate officers and politicians owned slaves.

JTull Fan, with all due respect, Robert E. Lee felt that slavery was the best way for Africans to come under the civilizing influence of Christianity. He called slavery an evil in any civiliztion, but he specifically left the removal of slavery from the American fabric to God. I've argued elsewhere that one of the reasons Lee forsook his military career late in life was his realization that he was an unwitting participant in slavery's removal as per God's evident intent. Lee was certainly a religious determinist. He also would have been appalled by the memorializtion of the Confederacy. Once when a local woman proudly showed him a tree that had been gnarled by Federal artillery fire but somehow managed to remain standing, lee told her to cut it down. He never participated in any post-war memorials and he counselled all Southerners to forget their sectionalism and work at being good citizens.

Shelby Foote has been quite adamant condemning the use of the Confederate battle flag by, as he called them, "yahoos." And that indeed is the core of the problem. While your ancestors fought a brave war for what they thought was right, many people living today have been the brunt of brutal racism perpetrated under the Confederate banner. So it becomes a matter of regarding the opinions of those living versus the honoring of those dead. I'm afraid most would opt to regard the opinions of those living. It is truly unfortunate that the symbolism of the battle flag has been usurped by fascist idiots, but it is an undeniable fact. There are people alive today who watched the KKK parade down Pennsylvania Avenue under a vast sea of Confederate battle flags. The introductions of the Confederate battle flag into state flags coincided with resistance to The Civil Rights Movement and its attendant legal victories. Again, I've participated in a good number of Confederate memorials, but for most Americans the Confederacy is a thing of the distant past while organized and institutional rascism is a large part of many citizens' lives.

I take some exception to a few of your other statements, but, again, I think I've gone too far afield with this discussion already. I've written a number of things about the war which I'd be happy to discuss with you privately. Oddly enough, in my writing I've been accused of a certain neo-Confederate bent. I'd like to think I'm simply being fair.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 05:20:42 CEST 2001 from spider-tr051.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.196)

Bashful Bill

During the last few weeks of 1st grade, my 7 year-old got turned on to the space program, John Glenn in particular. Last night we watched approx the first third of The Right Stuff(one of Levon's finest onscreen hours, IMHO), watched the second third tonite. He is really into it. He is impressed that I met a real movie star, I have been trying to find the picture Dennis from Woodstock took of Levon and me at Joyous Lake last Oct. I told my son that not only did I meet the guy who is in the movie, but that guy also kissed his mother on the mouth and called her "Darlin". Now that would have been a good picture. Anyway, I got on a roll, and today I watched Classic Albums The Band, and about half of the New Orleans show. I hadn't seen the Classic Albums one since it was originally broadcast on VH1 a few years ago, time really flies, Rick was still with us then. Great stuff-Robbie playing the piano and softly singing Dixie, great great footage of Richard, also quite a bit of Garth. John Simon calls Garth a "mad genius".I find it significant that several times they will have a quote from Levon, then immediately show RR(and once Johnathon Taplan) refuting it, but it's obvious that they purposely set up the questions and edited it that way. Rick's famous quote about trying to save the neighborhood is in there. Levon is really into the interview process, and is really into the music he and the boys made back in 68. If you haven't seen it in awhile,take it down off the shelf and check it out.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 03:19:23 CEST 2001 from (208.227.137.242)

Dombonny (db)

I love you all. Please me if you care..........

Posted on Fri Jul 13 03:03:32 CEST 2001 from spider-wa064.proxy.aol.com (205.188.192.49)

Tommy

Bones; I have Elvis Costello's 'My Aim Is True' on CD and it IS a reissue/remaster.It has a load of bonus tracks (including demos)from the "MAIT" sessions.I got it(and I believe it was released with the rest of his first few albums)in '96.So , does this mean there's gonne be a THIRD CD release of this album???$$$$$$$..Time to start stealin'!

Posted on Fri Jul 13 02:50:04 CEST 2001 from 028.a.005.mel.iprimus.net.au (210.50.40.28)

Erin

Interesting debate about the Civil War and the flag... so now I get to ask a question I've wondered about for a while.

I thought that, although there had been a lot of tension of the issue of abolition and although I believe senators were voting on the issue along state, not party lines, that the Civil War began over the issue of Southern independence. We were taught that it was only after Lincoln realized that France and England were going to recognize the South as an independant nation that he was forced to make the war about the issue of slavery. We were also taught that when that happened there were mass desertions of union troops and riots in NYC, which included the burning down of an orphanage for Black children. I thought the 20 slave law (I'm sure that's not its proper name, but I forget what it really was called) meant that virtually ONLY Virgil Caines were actually doing the fighting. That's the basis I'm working from when I listen to 'The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down,' or watch TLW interviews that have the confederate flag in the background, is that wrong?

Also, I found the answer to my own question about Go, Go, Liza Jane: it is a folk song. Lomax says its a black children's game song. The version he recorded is from a female perspective. Just in case anyone was really hanging out to know the answer...

Posted on Fri Jul 13 02:25:54 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti011.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.151)

JTull

Incidently, last year in Richmond a canal walk was opened on the James river near downtown. (where the stone pilings of the bridge Jefferson Davis and the Confederate government evacuated on still stand)It was decided major Virginia historical figures would be represented in hanging murals. General Lee's was later firebombed. The mural was replaced several weeks later by an African American church in Richmond in the interest of community healing. It has not been touched since. Point: Issues and history are much more interwoven and complex the media makes them out to be. And by the way, on Monument Avenue (where Richmond has large stone monuments to Lee, Davis, Jackson, and Stuart) a statue of African-American and Richmond native Arther Ashe now stands.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 02:20:31 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti011.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.151)

JTull Fan

Mr. Viney: The Stars & Bars ALSO represents to many Americans, particularly Southerners, of ancestors who fought and died for an invaded homeland. Many of these persons were not slaveholders, some were. Some opposed slavery (like General Lee) but fought for their home. Most were white, many were Indian (especially Cherokee, who felt the U.S. gov't had betrayed their trust)and some, yes, were black (some of whom were even slaveholders) Blacks incidentally, also showed up at Gettysburg reunions of North and South soldiers well into the 1930's, marching behind the Confederate flag. Were they in the minority? Certainly, but the moral of the story is that flags and the history behind them are very complex symbols which should not be condemned by those who presently misuse them. Sure, modern fascists have misused the Confederate flag as a symbol of their particular brand of hate. It should be condemned. The Confederacy existed for 4 years with slavery. The U.S. prior to 1861 existed for 85 years with it.(In 1863, while fighting the Confederacy, the North accepted West Virginia into the Union as a SLAVE STATE!) The British empire prior to abolition in the 1840's even longer. Neither the U.S. flag or Union Jack is condemned in the same manner, nor is the Crucifix, which the Ku Klux Klan so abhorently uses as its burning symbol. The Confederate States of America, like most nations past and present, had its good and bad. Let's not wrongly accuse its flag as being a symbol of a 20th and 21st century group whose ideals would be alien and abhorent to it. Let us condemn Fascism and its adherents but not the 'Virgil Caines' in the process.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 02:18:07 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

Peter Viney: huh?

Posted on Fri Jul 13 02:00:54 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-116-116.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.116.116)

Back with no wife in Tennessee

What's wrong with Peter? Must've had too much second-hand herbal pungent smoke.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 01:27:56 CEST 2001 from 1cust55.tnt8.tco2.da.uu.net (63.21.93.55)

Bonnie

Greetings from a fairly new reader and first time contributer. I noticed L Helm is performing in my area with a group called the Rolling Fork Review. I am not at all familiar with this group. What can you tell me about them. Thanks BR

Posted on Fri Jul 13 00:59:09 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-016.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.16)

Peter Viney

And so to Upton park near Poole to watch the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra do Star Wars, Night on Bare Mountain, In A Persian Market etc (with fireworks). Apparently they used the same band shell as Van exactly a week earlier, some 20 miles further north. The differences were instructive. The classical concert in a field is awash with (good) wine and lots of flags. We enjoyed some excellent New Zealand Montana Merlot, which was on sale. The PA system was total crap, though I admit it’s hard to mic 81 musicians. Butch and I could have sorted them out a far better system in no time. It was far too quiet 100 yards back from the stage. Five times as many people as Van, too. Interestingly, though the pollen count was probably the same, several asthmatics at the Van concert had had to resort to pungent herbal smoking mixtures, no doubt to combat the pollen. That’s what it smelled like anyway. While at the classical concert in a field the smell was purely cigars. Lots of them. In the finale (Jerusalem / Pomp & Circumstance) everyone was waving flags. The Union flag (= British flag) evokes a mild, warm patriotic glow, as would the stars and stripes for Americans. However, the St George’s flag (=English flag as opposed to British) is disquieting with fascist overtones, as might be the stars and bars for many Americans.

Posted on Fri Jul 13 00:19:44 CEST 2001 from user-33qta3i.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.168.114)

Pat Brennan

Uhhh, far be it from me to get involved in a feud, but my Shaggs remark was meant to be, well, uhhh, lighthearted. Uhh, you know, a joke. You know, kinda funny, in light of the "crap" debate.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 22:33:50 CEST 2001 from ool-18b9f5df.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.245.223)

Tony LoBue

Don’t miss the Barn Burners!!! Saw them on the Blues Cruise Tuesday night… One of the best blues bands ever. Levon is doing very well, there is no stopping him!!! Chris, Pat, Frank and Amy are on FIRE!!!

Posted on Thu Jul 12 22:25:45 CEST 2001 from (137.187.146.245)

Jonathan Katz

Its time to vote! Click on the above link....

Posted on Thu Jul 12 22:18:16 CEST 2001 from 1cust244.tnt3.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.109.244)

HI

Yay! Someone, Johnny, coming to the Shaggs defense......loved them after hearing the record through NRBQ, champions of the unique..... The Blue Cheer acid comment was a joke. The band wasn't good IMHO.I'm surprised someone didn't defend U2...They ain't bad. Again IMHO.........PS How do you spell yay like in yippee.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 21:52:55 CEST 2001 from 24.101.160.143.on.wave.home.com (24.101.160.143)

John D

24 HOURS TO THE BARNBURNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on Thu Jul 12 21:21:30 CEST 2001 from mp-217-215-57.daxnet.no (193.217.215.57)

Utopia

Love your music!

Posted on Thu Jul 12 20:25:26 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Further to Peter's second post about Shufflin' Sid, fans of the movie "Ishtar" (assuming I'm not the only one) might note certain similarities between it and parts of Sid's life. This is no coincidence, hence Sid's cameo appearance in one of the market scenes.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 19:57:08 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

"Destively Bonnaroo" was Dr. John's follow-up to his successful 1973 album, "In The Right Place". That particular album featured his hit "Right Place Wrong Time" (which charted at #9) and "Such A Night" (which he later performed with the Band at The Last Waltz).

Another personal favorite of mine is his 1972 recording, "Gumbo". This album was essentially Mr. Rebennack's tour of the Crescent City, as he performed great covers of some classic songs from the artists that helped shape the New Orleans sound.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 19:40:47 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

BROWN EYED GIRL:......GOOD AFTERNOON!!!......(and hee thanx! ;-)

Hey Ilkka, do you still live, my friend?......isn't it a little too hot for the sauna now?......updating the Citroen collection?......watching the Tour de France, huh?......we could use some more € posters, ya know......I'm sure Ragtime misses ya......(Denise de Graaff dit geldt natuurlijk ook voor jou!)

POETRY:
I'm not hungry, yet I want to eat
I'm not thirsty, yet I want to drink
I'm not thinking, yet the head hurts

HOLIDAY ADVICE WEEK 28 (can be used this week):
1) Visit the "Tour the France" (July), go to such a little typical French village, enjoy the race with the locals and afterwards get drunk with the locals.
2) When you hire a bike, check the tires and if there is a strong wind from the side, form a "waaier"
3) Electrical and gas BBQ's do the job also (convenient)

THOUGHTS:
Don't buy the "ïnsiders tip" YAMAKAWA dvd player! What a shit!......this one goes to my brother!

STORY:
Last year I stumbled into this site, I was impressed and read almost all of the GB history. Sometime back, posters singed often with "long live The Band!". At Breeze Hill I ordered a few T-shirts (a Garth long and short sleeve and a Rick). I got an email from Breeze Hill, telling me there where some problems with my credit card. I called them immediatly, was transfered to the girl who ships the packages......there was no problem at all, as it turned out......she said: "I will ship your order today!".....I thanked her, and, cause I thought it was an appropriate thing to do, I shouted, very enthusiastically: "LONG LIVE THE BAND!!!"......after a painful moment of silence, the girl said: "huh?".......I turned red......said "well....uh...thank you" and hung up very quick......the poor girl must have been shocked......but......I got the package within 5 days! heehee...

RANDOM:
1) Peter: great story! (who said that the English don't have humor?).
2) Aren't there any Russian Band fans here? or French? what about Spain? or China?
3) The place where Herman Brood died yesterday, is packed with flowers and bottles of wine now, the prices of his paintings rise rapidly, btw his favorite musician was Van Morrison.

this post? well talking about crab......(oftewel slap gelul)......anyway, but I love The Band!

Posted on Thu Jul 12 19:24:32 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-103.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.103)

Peter Viney

Judging by your e-mails, some of you think that Shufflin’ (as he was affectionately known by musicians and fans alike) is a figment of the imagination. He was eradicated from most, if not all, rock histories following his contentious deportation from the United States after his second gig in 1959. Shufflin’ continued to deny all charges until the end of his days, and I’d prefer not to repeat the sordid details. The indictment contained the words ‘unique,’ and ‘peculiar’ and argued that in the circumstances, his defence of “consent” was ludicrous. Suffice it to say that he was unable to enter the USA again, which was a serious blight just as his career was taking off. America’s loss was Abu Dhabi’s gain, and his tours of the Gulf and Lebanon sustained him in his later years. Accusations in the National Enquirer were based on the unliklihood of a four piece band requiring forty-six female “backing vocalists” while on a tour of hotel bars. These tours proved highly profitable nevertheless, and Shufflin’ was a wealthy man by the late sixties. A sad addiction to gambling on Scalextric slot car racing brought him low. A further Band link is that in the issue of New Musical Express which reviewed Cahoots, an advert can be found in the Gig guide page (page 37) for “Screaming Lord Sutch plus Support artist.” You’ve guessed it, that support artist was Shufflin’ in his glory days. If anyone has memories of Shufflin’ to share, I’m waiting to hear them.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 18:55:06 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.37)

Bones

David Powell: Thanks for the heads up on Dr. John. That is one of my favorite records. Oddly enough, my second favorite Mac R. record is called In A Sentimental Mood, which is completely different.

Crabby: Bad news! Someone told me that the Nicky Love project has been postponed once again. That doesn't seem smart since they got a nice review in Rolling Stone.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 15:58:29 CEST 2001 from (209.166.233.21)

Jon Lyness

Every time I read that Garth interview, I smile. I can't wait for this album!!

Posted on Thu Jul 12 15:53:47 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Dr. John fans have cause to rejoice -- Mr. Rebennack's funkified fine album "Desitively Bonnaroo" has just been reissued on compact disc. Joel Dorn's Label M was recently able to acquire the licensing rights from Rhino for this album, originally released by Atco/Atlantic in 1974.

"Destively Bonnaroo" showcases the good doctor's recipe for N'Awlins style musical gumbo. Allen Toussaint helps stir the cast iron pot with his prodigious production & arrangement talents, along with adding keyboards, percussion & background vocals. The Meters, Leo Nocentelli, Arthur Neville, George Porter, Jr. and Joseph "Zigaboo" Modeliste, strut their grooves through the tunes. Extra spice is added by a full horn section and smoothed out with the cane sugar sweetness of a female background chorus.

The album features ten original classics from Mr. Rebennack, such as "Quitters Never Win", "What Comes Around (Goes Around)", "Me - You = Loneliness" and "(Everybody Wanna Get Rich) Rite Away." There are also two fine covers, Earl King's "Let's Make A Better World" and Allen Toussaint's "Go Tell The People".

I highly recommend these heaping portions of prime Dr. John.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 15:53:59 CEST 2001 from spider-loh-tf073.proxy.aol.com (195.93.50.183)

smudge

excellent web page...hello to all amen fans.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 15:30:51 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-078.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.78)

Peter Viney

Maybe very few of us have heard of Shuffling Sydney Samuels, but to afficianados of fifties rock and roll, Shuffling Sydney was a key figure in the development of Welsh R & B. His only record, ‘Mad Mama Megan’ wasn’t a hit as such, but the owners still prize that piece of 7 inch vinyl with the ‘J. Arthur Rank’ label (JARTHUR JA346-098-2755B, 1958). When Sydney shuffled off this mortal coil (if you’ll excuse the pun) rock and roll was the poorer for it. Sydney contracted gangrene after a self-inflicted wound sustained while cutting an ingrowing toenail at his home in Merthyr Tydfil. Sydney richly deserves ‘Related artist’ status on this site, if only for a drunken rendition of Rag Mama Rag with obscenely-altered lyrics at the Tolpuddle Rock Festival in 1971. It was part of a medley with Mad Mama Megan, Short Fat Fannie and Thick Thora Thornton (during which he vomited over the bass player). I remember an interviewer asking him what he thought of The Band at the time, but Sydney, who was almost deaf, seemingly misunderstood the question and merely told us that the guitarist owed him £2.50, the trumpet player had once spilled his beer, and that the drummer generally refused to help carry the PA system out to the van. This should not disqualify him, though. Sydney had a vocal range of almost two octaves was known as ‘the gurgler’ by other singers, and was a master of the ukulele, an instrument rarely heard in rock before or since. Bernie Hospice’s article in the South Wales Gazette (1 April 1974) suggested that Pete Townsend’s character of Tommy was based on Sydney. Tone-deaf musicians everywhere owe Shuffling Sydney a great debt (not discounting the £2.50 the guitarist owed him). I shall never forget seeing Sydney gargle peppermint-mouthwash while simultaneously singing ‘Moon River’ at the Red Lion pub in Mockbeggar. One of the greats.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 15:01:20 CEST 2001 from (12.34.17.217)

Johnny Flippo

The Shaggs were in no way, shape or form, "crap". Believe me, I've been listening to them for a long time and there's method to the madness. I defy anyone, and I mean *anyone*, to attempt to cover a Shaggs song. It is impossible. They created there own musical universe which is there for all to admire, but impossible for any of us to live in.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 11:17:14 CEST 2001 from schltns.demon.nl (212.238.41.164)

Ragtime

Norbert: da's waar ook.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 03:43:33 CEST 2001 from dialin-35-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.1.35)

Gene

Excellent acid, maybe, but crap band.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 01:40:02 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert again

Ragtime: No Band connection? Cuby did tour with Van Morrison......

Posted on Thu Jul 12 00:21:37 CEST 2001 from 1cust26.tnt7.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.15.112.26)

HI

Blue Cheer was excellent acid.

Posted on Thu Jul 12 00:13:55 CEST 2001 from schltns.demon.nl (212.238.41.164)

Ragtime

Sad about Herman Brood... our one and only real rockstar. Two Dutch tv networks abandoned their scheduled programs tonight. BTW he jumped from the same Amsterdam Hilton where John and Yoko had their famous sleep in 69.

Band connection? None whatsoever, sorry about that.

Posted on Wed Jul 11 22:33:18 CEST 2001 from dialin-1318-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.6.48)

Gene

R'n'RHO'Crap?: Grand Funk Railroad, Blue Cheer, 10 Years After

Posted on Wed Jul 11 22:03:31 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

Bill, Herman Brood did a movie called "Cha Cha" in 1978 with Nina Hagen, maybe you've seen that one.
For his biography you can click on the web page above.

Posted on Wed Jul 11 21:21:15 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

Hey Crabby: Has Nicky Love's Honeyvision come out? I bought the Shrek soundtrack because of Robbie's involvement, and I find myself listening to it a lot. It helps that my 3 year old loves it.

Since Elvis Costello is a huge Band fan, I thought I'd throw this out: His landmark My Aim Is True record is getting reissued as a two disc remastered set a la Rock Of Ages with disc one as the original and disc two full of bonus tracks. If any of you got the original cd like I did, this is good news, for the first cd issue was one of the worst sounding cds of all time.

Posted on Wed Jul 11 21:00:14 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Norbert: I have a vague recollection of seeing Herman Brood in some movie - perhaps a documentary - in the late '70s. But I think he was already out of fashion by the time I first visited the Netherlands in '83.

Posted on Wed Jul 11 20:12:00 CEST 2001 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.nl.home.com (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

Just heard that "Dutch rock legend" (Cuby and the Blizzards) HERMAN BROOD (54) killed himself.
He jumped this afternoon from the Hilton hotel in Amsterdam.
His farewell note: "Make it a good party and maybe I'll see y'all someday"

Herman sure lived fast (drugs) and refused to grow up, but a talented musician and a Hell of a character......thanx for sharing Herman! and if you're up there now......cheers brother......

Posted on Wed Jul 11 20:09:50 CEST 2001 from m20677150207.austin.cc.tx.us (206.77.150.207)

pehr

Best to Diamond Lil an Dave Z!

Posted on Wed Jul 11 19:58:56 CEST 2001 from cm.med.3284842146.kabelnet.net (195.202.182.162)

FORUM ZONE

FREE audio and music SOFTWARE, MP3 player, FREE vst-plugs, RECORDING software interested in TIPS and HINTS about? visit our MUSIC FORUM and feel welcome :-) (password for GUESTS: abc)

Posted on Wed Jul 11 19:43:48 CEST 2001 from dialup-068.cork.iol.ie (194.125.43.68)

Hank

Last night before I crashed I read three great interviews available in the "What's New" section of this site......RR 1968, Levon 1984 and Garth 2001..........Wonderful.......Thank you, Jan, for providing us with this site and this GB.......

A friend of mine went on the "Blues Cruise" last night in NYC and said Levon was amazing....sounding and looking great.........

Hey! Neil Young or Young Neal or Niall Og or WHOEVER you are..... I sent you an email the other day to acknowledge our soildarity on The Rollin' Stones...but it came back to me......if you wanna rap Stones, Band and ....uh....Neil Young.......email me at the above address......

Posted on Wed Jul 11 17:21:52 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Sad about Fred Neil. At least his was (or at least seems to have been) a life well lived. Plus he left behind more great songs and more dolphins than we would otherwise have had.

Billy Mundi appears on his Dolphins LP AND Moondog Matinee.

In other news, on the weekend I saw Colin Linden and Richard Bell performing - very well - at the Harbourfront bluesfest. Linden dedicated "Remedy" to Rick Danko. He also sang a song - "Out Of The Wilderness"? - written by Linden, Bell and Weider.

Posted on Wed Jul 11 07:18:32 CEST 2001 from ip200.louisville9.ky.pub-ip.psi.net (38.31.224.200)

gino

could someone let me know if garth is playing in nashville july 17th. thanks

Posted on Wed Jul 11 05:42:26 CEST 2001 from dialup-63.215.112.129.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.112.129)

Pat Brennan

First of all, I must say that I thoroughly enjoy the Nelly Furtado cd. Nicky Love however has a way to go.

In re: RoA, the remastering is sonicly wonderful. Disappointing indeed if you shelled out for Academy of Outtakes or Watkins Glen. But I join with the many Dylan collectors I know who love Bob's contribution to the cause.

BTW, the Shaggs were crap, but I think they were actually going for it.

Posted on Wed Jul 11 05:36:00 CEST 2001 from on-tor-blr-ahp-12-98.look.ca (209.161.232.226)

Wittgenstein

Fred Neil is going to heaven in a split-pea shell.

In happier news, the Toronto police today arrested three people who set up a scam to infiltrate people's bank accounts by involving them in getting Prince Joshua Boateng's $30 million fortune out of Togo and into their helping hands. I know that some of you, as well as myself, were contacted by these internet grifters, probably by getting addresses through this forum. It seems that the promise of a 30% share in the loot was enticing to many unsuspecting doof-gooders, and if any of you be among them, it would probably be best to keep mum about it.

Posted on Wed Jul 11 04:47:01 CEST 2001 from host-216-76-149-104.bna.bellsouth.net (216.76.149.104)

BWNWITennessee

Hey! - So the Billy Block website says that Garth WILL be playing with Prof. Louie in Nashville next week. The concerts page here just says Crowmatix, without the "Special Guest Garth Hudson" after it, like some other dates have. So what's the deal - is Garth going country or not? Well, either way, I'll be there, in my Garth T-Shirt. Actually, I've got to go there for tonight's show in a few minutes.

I wonder if Tony Furtado is related to Nelly.

Posted on Wed Jul 11 03:01:56 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tb044.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.39)

Tommy

well friends....looks like I didn't get to make the Blues Cruise tonight.Dammit!!!And I was looking forward to that for a few months now!Balls!!!ah well, just another case of a person trapped in the web.........

Posted on Wed Jul 11 02:42:42 CEST 2001 from nbsjcvx04ip142166141231.nbnet.nb.ca (142.166.141.231)

WS Walcott

I finally broke down and bought the remastered Rock of Ages. I must say I am a little disappointed. Of the 10 new tunes, "Up on Cripple Creek" is the weakest tune by far, a very lackluster and sloppy performance. "Rockin'Chair" is outstanding. I even like it better than the original studio version. The other Band tunes are okay, not great but not bad either.

The Dylan songs, with the exception of "Don't Ya Tell Henry" are downright boring. I guess its just another case of Capitol Records trying to cash in on another dead group. Anybody else feel the way I do?

Posted on Tue Jul 10 23:37:57 CEST 2001 from hyp01-207-97-142-49.i-2000.net (207.97.142.49)

BK

Was hoping to do the Blues Cruise tonight, but, alas, it's not working out so well. I hope some GB folks will be there and give us a report tomorrow. I'll now go cry in my beer.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 22:57:19 CEST 2001 from 1cust132.tnt2.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.17.108.132)

HI

Long ago I was at the next table at the Millstream motel which had a breakfast nook where Garth Hudson and Fred Neil sat at the next table....1970 i believe...Fred.."Bobby's flying in tonight from Florida".

Posted on Tue Jul 10 22:44:44 CEST 2001 from ottawa-ppp3517269.sympatico.ca (206.172.191.140)

Richard Patterson

FRED NEIL: The Web page link above will take you to a great article on Fred Neil by Richie Unterberger from his book 'Urban Spacemen & Wayfaring Strangers: Overlooked Innovators and Eccentric Visionaries of '60s Rock'. Lots of Sebastian quotes...

Posted on Tue Jul 10 22:34:12 CEST 2001 from 1cust84.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (63.28.242.84)

Tony Furtado Band at Tribeca Blues

All you NYC/Jersey people should check out The Tony Furtado Band at Tribeca Blues on Aug,2nd. Not particularly a blues band, Tony nonetheless performs some very funky,bluesy tunes, as well as bluegrassy, fusiony, Celtic numbers, all on banjo and slide guitar. Playing with Tony on bass from time to time is none other than Billy Rich(from Butterfields Better Days Band and Taj Mahal), as well as Paul McCandless from Oregon. Tony has been called the next Bela Fleck by some..........Check it out--------Rollie

Posted on Tue Jul 10 21:53:05 CEST 2001 from user-33qt9je.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.166.110)

Pat Brennan

David Powell's mystery man would be the estimable Bob Dylan, who, as irony would have it, offered the bass guitar chair in his first elctric group to John Sebastian before hiring the Hawks.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 21:25:39 CEST 2001 from ool-18b995aa.dyn.optonline.net (24.185.149.170)

JOHN C.

In Rolling Stone, LAST WALTZ on DVD next year!!!! Robbie and Martin S. are working on it! And (as we all wanted) Unused footage!!!!

Posted on Tue Jul 10 20:57:59 CEST 2001 from 24.101.160.143.on.wave.home.com (24.101.160.143)

John D

Thanks for playing. The above link is to the recordings of Martin/Neil.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 20:54:20 CEST 2001 from 24.101.160.143.on.wave.home.com (24.101.160.143)

John D

YEHHHHHHHHHH AMANDA! It is indeed Vince Martin. When I saw Rick at Joyous Lake the summer before he passed on, Vince Martin was in attendance. I wanted to go over and say hello; but didn't. Time is too short as witnessed by the passing of Rick. I should have done it. It was at this time I found out they were friends along with Eric Anderson

Honorable mention goes to Pat Brennan; especially after reading the following interview with John Sebastian.......

John Sebastian says in the interview, "It was an interesting coincidence that happened at Elektra Records. I was recording for Judy Collins that day, if I'm not mistaken. And the producer was Paul Rothchild, who I had been steadily making friends with, because he had been producing a jug band that I was in.

What happened was that Vince Martin came in. And Vince and Fred were embarking on some of those early Martin and Neil records at that time, but I didn't know Fred at all. So Vince said, gee, he was listening to me play, and he said jeez, you oughta come down and play with me and my partner. We're at the Playhouse Cafe.

Well, this particular coffeehouse was about three blocks from my house. So it was very easy, even as a, jeez, I don't know, a seventeen, an eighteen-year-old guy, for me to just kind of go down there and play sets."........and so on.......

Posted on Tue Jul 10 20:31:08 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti023.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.158)

bob wigo

I'm with Pat Brennan on this one. John Sebastian?

Posted on Tue Jul 10 20:30:14 CEST 2001 from spider-tm023.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.53)

Donna

CONGRATULATIONS to Laura Holt Lorfing, (Dylan Girl) and her husband, on the birth of their son, Rhett Thomas Lorfing! I wish you both all the best! I bet Laura already has Rhett watching TLW on video. :O)

Posted on Tue Jul 10 20:10:00 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

"And that's another side to this life..."

As it seems too often in recent weeks, the music world is saddened by the news of yet another passing, this time it's Fred Neil.

Among the long list of artists that Mr. Neil influenced, I think it's interesting to note that two influential, yet musically diverse, one-time members of the Byrds are included. The first, of course, is David Crosby, who's own recorded work over the years has reflected Mr. Neil's influence. The second is none other than the late Gram Parsons, who was Mr. Crosby's replacement in the Byrds. Although Mr. Parsons chose a different musical path, as relected in his officially released recordings over the years, he too was deeply influenced by Mr. Neil early in his career as a musician.

Evidence of this can be heard on the album "Another Side of This Life -- The Lost Recordings 1965-66", released recently by Sundazed. The history behind these recordings is that, upon dropping out of Harvard, Mr. Parsons began hanging out in Greenwich Village, soaking up the music scene there, particularly the performances of Fred Neil. Mr. Parsons befriended Mr. Neil, learned many of his songs, and upon returning home to Winterhaven, Florida, recorded some demo tapes on a friend's reel-to-reel recorder. Several of Mr. Neil's songs appear, including "Another Side To This Life", on the Sundazed "Lost Recordings" album, hence the title. Not too long after these recordings, Mr. Parsons began to steer himself into a different musical course, away from folk and into his country roots.

Incidentally, it was Mr. Parsons' replacement in the Flying Burrito Bros., Rick Roberts, who along with Chris Hillman, "discovered" Emmylou Harris and then introduced her to Mr. Parsons. The rest, as they say, is history.

John D. -- I'm not sure if this is THE answer to your question but a certain artist, who recently celebrated his 60th birthday, got an early break & exposure when he first came to New York and the already established star, Fred Neil, would let him play accompanying harmonica in performances at clubs in the Village. Years later, the mystery man would write a song for a movie, only to have the director chose one of Mr. Neil's instead. As history would have it, many years later, a song by the mystery man would not only be included in a movie, but win an Oscar for best song.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 20:05:41 CEST 2001 from (12.33.126.131)

John W.

Is it Jonas Fjeld?

Posted on Tue Jul 10 20:03:23 CEST 2001 from user-33qt848.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.160.136)

Pat Brennan

Gotta be John Sebastian.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 19:47:01 CEST 2001 from spider-ta024.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.54)

Amanda

John D.: Is it Vince Martin?

Posted on Tue Jul 10 19:11:06 CEST 2001 from citrix1.doc.state.vt.us (159.105.102.5)

John Cass

To John D. is the answer Richie Havens??

Posted on Tue Jul 10 19:08:10 CEST 2001 from 24.101.160.143.on.wave.home.com (24.101.160.143)

John D

Johnny Flippo: Right Band Member......Rick Danko; but you haven't come up with the name of the artist that was great friends with Rick who has some great historical recordings with his old friend, the late Fred Neil.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 18:59:14 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

Great interview with Garth! Thanks for adding it. Levon and Robbie could both learn something from Garth as to how to give a thoughtful and eloquent interview. I'm getting more excited every day about Sea To The North.

I watched the Classic Albums: The Band DVD last night, and I enjoy it more every time. Rick singing "When You Awake", Robbie complimenting all his old mates, John Simon and Garth recreating the Band horn sound, etc. How great!

Posted on Tue Jul 10 18:30:06 CEST 2001 from (12.34.17.217)

Johnny Flippo

I believe it was Rick Danko, who, through his involvement in the Dolphin Project, had some interaction with Mr. Neil. Was it Fred who (according to Rick) had a trailer with a freezer stocked with marlin?

OK John D, what do I win?

Posted on Tue Jul 10 18:01:36 CEST 2001 from h0000f8718e9a.ne.mediaone.net (24.218.187.47)

Young Neil

Congratulations to Tom for having the good sense and taste to love the mighty Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and the Band. Three of the greatest of all times. Tony's heavy, probably the heaviest, but don't discount the Laguna Sunrise, Fluff, or Embryo. The man can play some pretty chords for a rock-n-roller, Jack. Dems some pretty chords.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 17:25:48 CEST 2001 from 24.101.160.143.on.wave.home.com (24.101.160.143)

John D

..........and oh yes.........what is the name of that Band member?

Posted on Tue Jul 10 17:24:37 CEST 2001 from 24.101.160.143.on.wave.home.com (24.101.160.143)

John D

No it's not Arlo. David Powell this quiz might be up to you. I'll ask again. What musician who once played with the late Fred Neil has a connection with an original Band member? So you don't think this is a trick question, I believe the connection was not so much a musical one; but that of close friendship. Ooooooh Tough one!

Posted on Tue Jul 10 17:16:55 CEST 2001 from (12.33.126.131)

John W.

While we all have our subjective opinions, I have to wonder about some people's taste when I have seen three of my favorite bands slammed as "crap" - the Moody Blues, E.L.O., Chicago. You could say the Moodies always do a predictable live show but they have had a pretty solid band for many years and there is a lot of talent there. E.L.O., sure they got a bit too disco oriented but Jeff Lynne is a very talented performer and producer, has influenced lots of other artists. Chicago has had some pretty solid tunes and had a jazz/horns/r&b style imitated by many others. Well, at least nobody has slammed Bruce Springsteen or Creedence.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 17:06:32 CEST 2001 from (62.128.210.148)

steve day

HI,IM NOT DOING NO FISHING,OR DRINKING ANY WINE.IM JUST LISTENING TO THE BAND NIGHT AND DAY. ITS A GREAT SITE SO DONT CHANGE A THING,JUST RAG MAMA RAG!

Posted on Tue Jul 10 16:37:42 CEST 2001 from pool-63.49.29.44.mmph.grid.net (63.49.29.44)

Dexy

Finally, a Band-to-Chuck Barris connection, "Whipped Cream." And, on the day after Lil's birthday, to boot!

Posted on Tue Jul 10 15:45:50 CEST 2001 from spider-te023.proxy.aol.com (152.163.195.183)

Dave Z

John D: Arlo?... Oh well, happy happy BDay to Arlo... I've often wondered about that story where Pete Seeger was trying to axe Dylan's electricity off the stage... Where was Arlo?... Hmmm... Stephen Stills does a pretty good cover of Fred Neil's "Everybody's Talkin'" on one of his live albums too...

Posted on Tue Jul 10 14:05:43 CEST 2001 from (210.50.80.16)

Erin

What the hell is 'honested'? Sorry folks I meant 'honest.' Not only do I spit the dummy and have problems hearing, I can't spell.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 13:09:05 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp32.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.32)

Diamond Lil

Lars: Please permit me to make a small correction to your nice post about the LARGO show. Maud Hudson's voice was not on tape accompanying Garth.. she was there and it was live. Perhaps the fact that she was 'offstage' was what made you wonder if it was live..or if it was memorex :-)

Aah.. tonight is the 'blues _cruise_", hm? Whew! I guess I don't have to bring my "handy dandy notebook" :-)

Thanks to everyone for the birthday wishes. Much appreciated. Have a good day. Hug Jan.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 12:46:14 CEST 2001 from (210.50.80.16)

Erin

John W: don't tell me its "Betsy" not "Bessie" in Cripple Creek - I haven't been this disappointed since I realized "Kate punched the wall" was NOT a line from "Yazoo Street Scandal" - I know I'm an idiot...

Little Brother: I don't know... and to be honested, I'm scared to ask...

And finally, to Diamond Lil, who is always such a wonderful, warm and friendly presence on the GB: Happy Birthday. Have a great time! Lots of hugs and good wishes, from E.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 06:13:41 CEST 2001 from 24.101.160.143.on.wave.home.com (24.101.160.143)

John D

What is Fred Neil's connection to The Band?

Well you have to tell me what great old folkie friend of Neil's did he record with? This artist connects him to a Band member and which member? Better act fast before David Powell sees this.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 06:02:42 CEST 2001 from 24.101.160.143.on.wave.home.com (24.101.160.143)

John D

SUMMERLAND KEY, Fla. (Reuters)

Folk song writer Fred Neil, who penned the theme song "Everybody's Talkin"' from the 1969 movie "Midnight Cowboy," has died, police said.

Neil was found dead on Saturday at his home in Summerland Key, Florida, apparently of natural causes, said Monroe County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Becky Herrin.

"A friend who usually checked on him found the body," she said.

Neil emerged from Greenwich Village, New York, in the mid-1960s. "Everybody's Talkin"' performed by Harry Nilsson, was featured in "Midnight Cowboy" starring Dustin Hoffman and became a Top 10 hit.

In 1970, Neil, a native Floridian, founded The Dolphin Research Project to stop trafficking and exploitation of dolphins. In 2000, he wrote the music for "The Dolphin Project" video.

The book, "American Troubadours: Groundbreaking Singer Songwriters of the Sixties" released in the United Kingdom in March, devoted a chapter to Neil.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 05:52:05 CEST 2001 from (207.14.106.85)

Tom

The Hall of Crap is a poor idea. After all, musical taste among different people varies greatly and can be extremely limited in some people. For example, listing Deep Purple as a crap band clearly shows a complete lack of respect for great musicianship. DP is an excellent band and they still produce great albums even now. Their recent 12 CD album is nothing short of spectacular and is arguably one of the best albums of 2001. I derive as much enjoyment listening to them as I do listening to the Band. Deep Purple simply provide a different listening experience than the Band does. Which is to say, I enjoy the Band and Deep Purple to a great degree.

I used to judge music harshly, but now I have realized that music that I did not enjoy when I was younger, I now appreciate. I have come to realize that different moods require different kinds of music. Just because a band plays heavy music does not mean that they are crap. Black Sabbath is a band that many would consider plodding and excessively heavy. Do you know why they are that way? Tony Iommi, the guitarist in Black Sabbath, actually plays his guitar with prosthetic fingers. He tunes down his guitar a fifth so that his prosthetic fingers can deal with the string tension. The down tuning makes his guitar sound heavier and that lower pitched sound gives Black Sabbath's music a very dark atmosphere. Given his physical limitations, I think it is remarkable that Iommi plays the guitar as well he does. I think his desire to succeed despite his disability is commendable. Before he played guitar for Black Sabbath, he played in a blues/jazz band called Earth and at one time, he was the lead guitarist for Jethro Tull.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 05:08:02 CEST 2001 from spider-ta021.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.51)

Dave Z

Thanks for the wishes & congrats fellow GBers... Today I am really enjoying the Moondog bonus track "What Am I Living For"...

I hope I get to shake your hand on the 18th Butch?!... I got the green light to cut loose now... nothing but the blues... wah-whooo!!!

And a elated belated Happy Happy to you Lil'...

Posted on Tue Jul 10 04:29:32 CEST 2001 from www-cache-external.vuw.ac.nz (130.195.196.201)

ajr

Congratulations to Mr and Mrs Dave Z and happy birthday to Diamond Lil. "May your wishes all come true"

Posted on Tue Jul 10 04:06:26 CEST 2001 from dialup-276.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.20)

Hank

Weird.....I've been listening to Fred Neil for the past week......God Bless Him........

Bob Dylan is playing a gig in Killkenny next Sunday 15th July.....I'll be playing in Langtons Pub from 3-5 in Killkenny that afternoon with my band Open Kitchen if there's any stray Bob-Cats checkin' in here that just MIGHT be in Killkenny that afternoon......

Interesting to see that The Beatles Abbey Road got a Grammy for 1969.......Who here sez The Band shoulda got it for The Brown Album?.....I recall reading somewhere about how when Dylan and The Band played The Isle of Wight...3 Beatles arrived with advance copies of Abbey Road ....and how Dylan and The Band were a bit freaked out about how great it was.....I guess you would, tho, would'nt ya? Still'n'all it's wonderful to know how much George dug the Band.....I hope and pray he beats his cancer............ I say The Brown album shoulda got it.....just to up the bidding here....I mean, Abbey Road ROCKS!......but, ya know........

Happy B'Day Diamond L'il!......Wonderful to have met you this year........

Posted on Tue Jul 10 03:19:22 CEST 2001 from sttn-sh10-port151.snet.net (204.60.207.151)

MID

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO DIAMOND LIL What do you wish for? And where were you at the Town Crier? Me and Lg were there watching Professor Louie and Garth get down. We had a blast, and I finally got to meet Garth up close, although what he mumbled to me was hardly coherent. I just smiled in amazement. What a genius.! don't eat too much ice cream and cake.!

Posted on Tue Jul 10 03:09:03 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ta051.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.41)

Charlie Young

Sorry to hear about Fred Neil (though he did disappear for about the last three decades, didn't he?). I didn't realize he once lived near Big Pink. I always associated him with Greenwich Village in the '60s and Coconut Grove, Florida after that. He was a HUGE influence on great musicians such as John Sebastian, Jesse Colin Young and Tim Buckley.

On a brighter note: Happy Birthday Diamond Lil!

Posted on Tue Jul 10 02:34:24 CEST 2001 from spider-tk042.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.192)

Tommy

I would've liked to have been around during the recording sessions for the "brown album".Probably cause it's my favorite, and maybe cause it seems to be the last album the fellas had fun making.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 02:16:49 CEST 2001 from spider-wm011.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.151)

Bayou Sam

Happy Brthday Lil - and a hug.

Steve - wow - that was some list of Beatle grammys. I knew Let It Be was in there somewhere.

I remember reading an account by Levon of the way The Band worked alot on Cripple Creek to try and get it right. He said that it just wasn't sounding right, and one day they "just got hold of it". I always loved that discription by Levon. I think I would have liked being in the studio at the moment that they "got hold" of Cripple Creek. It must have felt great as a musician.......... Also, any night in Big Pink in the summer of '67.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 01:03:31 CEST 2001 from spider-tr061.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.201)

Bashful Bill

John W-whew! You're good!

Posted on Tue Jul 10 00:50:32 CEST 2001 from ts1-38.steveston.axion.net (207.34.146.38)

Cupid

Happy Birthday Lil, Ok y'all grab yer glass of J.D....right...A toast to the birthday girl...This is an old family toast[ and I'm really not kidding, it is. Mom blesses the christmas table with it every year].. raise yer glasses everybody here we go.....Well Lil...UP YOURS!!

For many a Christmas now Ma has looked over her flock and toasted us with a Jaunty "Well everybody..Up yours"

LOL! Have a happy day you sweet thang ya and Tsax make yer Mom something nice for dinner ya hear...Peace and much love Lil..Cupid

Posted on Tue Jul 10 00:18:45 CEST 2001 from 1cust202.tnt8.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.15.114.202)

HI

Fred Neil died.....A great singer/songwriter....use to have a place next to Big Pink.......and of course the Village scene...etc.

Posted on Tue Jul 10 00:08:01 CEST 2001 from mat-2-25.enter.net (207.16.155.81)

Little Brøther

-- Happy Birthday, Lil! Many happy returns (to the GB, that is).

-- Congratulations, Dave Z & family; may she stay forever young.

-- Erin: "Spat the dummy"? Is that anything like "screwed the pooch"?

Posted on Mon Jul 9 23:34:53 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Pat: You are partially correct. Naomi Neville was the maiden name of Mr. Toussaint's mother and the "pen" name that he used for songwriting credits on many of his songs (including "Whipped Cream").

Mr. Toussaint also used another name when he released his first album, "The Wild Sound of New Orleans by Tousan", released by RCA in 1958. Although he, rightfully, is primarily associated as one of the architects of the "funky" New Orleans sound, three of his songs achieved great success in the world of pop music. First, his song "Java", included on his RCA album, was later covered by trumpeter Al Hirt and was a huge hit, winning a Grammy in 1964. Then, as Pat Brennan mentioned, his "Whipped Cream" was a hit for Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass, later becoming the theme song for "The Dating Game", that bizarro- pantheon of pop culture in the'70s.

After achieving early success as the genius-in-residence for the Minit and Instant labels between 1960-63, Mr. Toussaint did a two-year stint in the Army. While in the service, he formed a band called The Stokes with fellow soldiers from his Army base in Texas. It was with this group that he first recorded "Whipped Cream" for the Instant label. As the story goes, Al Hirt passed on recording the song before it came to Herb Alpert's attention, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Upon leaving the service, Mr. Toussaint formed the legendary Sansu production company in 1965 with Marshall Sehorn. The two would later establish the Sea-Saint recording studios. For the next decade, Mr. Toussaint would help mastermind a string of hits for Lee Dorsey and others, with the group the Meters forming the core of the studio session band.

In 1970, Mr. Toussaint released his own excellent solo album, "From A Whisper To A Scream", on the Scepter label. From 1972-1978, he would release some of his best work on a string of albums released by Warner Bros. These fine releases include "Life, Love And Faith", "Southern Nights" and "Motion". Once again, another one of Mr. Toussaint's songs entered the pop charts as a #1 cross-over country/pop hit when Glen Campbell, of all people, covered the title song from "Southern Nights" in 1977.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 22:59:11 CEST 2001 from (12.33.126.131)

John W.

"For about five dollars, or one thousand yen..." "I'm just a country boy, and money, have I none..." "So I took up all my silver, and took it to a man..." "I give it all of my money, but it makes me feel fine..." "I took up all of my winnings, and I gave my little Betsy half..." "So I drew out what I had from the Central Trust..." "What ever happened to that five thousand dollar loan?" "A quarter for a dance, and if you spend your money, she'11 supply the sweet romance..." "I tried to save all my money, to bring you here someday, the New York lights burned holes in my pockets and the money just slipped away..." "That's what I want..." Okay, those last 3 are technically from Levon solo albums, not Band...How about Rick's "Java Blues": "Don't care what it costs me..."

Posted on Mon Jul 9 22:29:42 CEST 2001 from spider-tm084.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.84)

Ben Pike

Speaking of The Stones, kinda: I recently rented Jack Cardiff's silly but fun biker movie from 69 called "Girl On A Motocyle." Cardiff is a legendary cinamatographer who did "The Red Shoes" and "Black Narsissis." Marianne Faithfull is sexy as a bad girl biking across Europe in flight from her dull husband to her bad boy boyfriend. Great photography. More serious Marianne can be found on her supurb new best of, a VERY well chosen two CD set. If you have never heard this stuff, well, it's a lot closer to The Band than the Backstreet Boys. Garth is along for some of the best of it.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 22:27:17 CEST 2001 from user-33qtau3.dialup.mindspring.com (199.174.171.195)

Pat Brennan

Naomi Neville is Allen Toussaint who did the horn charts for The Band's Rock of Ages and wrote Whipped Cream which became the theme music for The Dating Game.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 22:22:47 CEST 2001 from spider-tk021.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.181)

Tommy

HAPPY BIRTHDAY to my girl Diamond Lil!!!!All the best, baby!

I'm unhappy to say that it looks like I wont be seeing the Barn Burners on the Blues Cruise tomorrow.Money will not allow, and it's killing me!!!DAMMIT!!!Maybe i'll have to borrow from someone...I NEED A BARN BURNERS FIX!!!!!!!!!

Posted on Mon Jul 9 21:19:32 CEST 2001 from h0000f8718e9a.ne.mediaone.net (24.218.187.47)

Young Neal

Congratulations to Hank for having the sense to stick up for The Rolling Stones.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 21:11:29 CEST 2001 from (208.218.212.2)

David Powell

Today's trivia quiz: Who is Naomi Neville and what is her connection to the Band and "The Dating Game" tv show?

Posted on Mon Jul 9 20:25:52 CEST 2001 from (169.200.133.38)

Bones

Dave Z: Congrats! Also, the thought of Garth and/or Rick being a Vikings fan is thrilling, I hope someone answers your hat question.

Thoughts and prayers go out to George Harrison.

Happy Birthday Lil!

Posted on Mon Jul 9 20:02:59 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-ti042.proxy.aol.com (64.12.101.167)

frank

What a show the boss and the barn burners put on at The Bubba Mac Shack Sat. nite. The place was wild. Reminded me so much of the good old days on the other side of the harbor at Tony Marks. great time see ya soon, frankie

Posted on Mon Jul 9 19:55:54 CEST 2001 from (209.19.78.25)

frank dracman

street walker mentions $, I think. I tried to check but no lyrics, its a danko/robertson?!!

Posted on Mon Jul 9 19:47:09 CEST 2001 from (4.20.68.20)

Rich

"don't care if the money's no good" from you all know what.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 18:47:16 CEST 2001 from (209.202.100.68)

Bill

Which Band songs mention money? Two bits in "Life Is A Carnival" and dough in "The Shape I'm In" leap to mind. Others?

Posted on Mon Jul 9 18:31:35 CEST 2001 from montreal-ppp48267.qc.sympatico.ca (209.226.145.8)

scott cruickshank

Jan- Great site your work was well worth the effort and very much appreciated. Scott C-Shank

Posted on Mon Jul 9 18:00:29 CEST 2001 from pool-63.49.29.141.mmph.grid.net (63.49.29.141)

Dexy

It sounds like bad news regarding George Harrison's ongoing battle with cancer, at the site listed above. In case I messed it up again, try this -- http://www.geocities.com/abbeyrdwebmaster/. With luck, he's been treated again, and is okay again.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 17:46:38 CEST 2001 from schltns.demon.nl (212.238.41.164)

Ragtime

Hey Diamond Lil, congrats to you, you like vlaai so much? Have a slice from me... It's flying over the ocean... catch!

Many happy returns!

Posted on Mon Jul 9 16:52:31 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-te021.proxy.aol.com (64.12.103.156)

butch

Three Things,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY LIL !!!!!!!!!!!!! Ladies like you, friends like you, fans like you,, make this Band's website, the joy it is,,,

Levon & The Barn Burner's show, in NJ, sat nite, was so effin hot,, im still dancin,,, BOOKER T was there to cheer on the B.B.'s,, & everyone, Chris, Levon Pat, Amy & of course frankie,, were scorchin thru the blues,,, so many friends turned out,, wigo, shari & Larry, Mim & Harry,Frankie Aheart,, the candy man,,,, cuz brucie,,& so many more,,, the crowd just ate them up,,, the floor was packed with dancers from the jump,, & amy & chris belted the vocals right out of the park,,, weeeooooweee,,,,

& i saw the final LARGO performance yesterday,, Garth & Maud were their usual charming & musically gifted selves,,,Garth's cameo's were just gravy on a wonderful marriage of theatre & rock & roll,,,

i had the author & the lyricist next to me & they were so proud of the interpretation of their record,,, AMAZING !!!

cyndi lauper was great as was ,,surprise,, fisher stevens, he can sing & play some harp,,, the cat who sang the Taj Mahal parts was awesome too,,,a great cast ,, richie pagano, from The Fab Faux, was the drummer & he sang Levon's part on GIMME A STONE,,,,

when it gets to Broadway,, it's gonna be a hit !!!!!!!!!!!!! ok, that's three,,,, later ,,,,

Posted on Mon Jul 9 15:30:44 CEST 2001 from spider-tl042.proxy.aol.com (152.163.207.192)

bob wigo

Lil,

If my cipherin' is correct you are celebrating a bithday today and it would be a shame not to let us all in on wishing you all the best.Health, happiness and prosperity to you on your day.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 15:01:18 CEST 2001 from host-221.subnet-78.med.umich.edu (141.214.78.221)

Steve Knowlton

Lots of Beatles Grammys:

Best Music Video, Short Form, 1996 Free As A Bird

Best Music Video, Long Form, 1996 The Beatles Anthology

Best Pop Performance By A Duo Or Group With Vocal, 1996 Free As A Bird

Album Of The Year, 1967 Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Best Contemporary Album, 1967 Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Best New Artist Of 1964

Best Performance By A Vocal Group, 1964 A Hard Day's Night

Song Of The Year, 1966 Michelle

Best Contemporary (R&R) Solo Vocal Performance - Male Or Female, 1966 Eleanor Rigby

Best Album Cover, Graphic Arts, 1966 Revolver

Best Album Cover, Graphic Arts, 1967 Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Best Engineered Recording - Non-Classical, 1967 Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Best Engineered Recording - Non-Classical, 1969 Abbey Road

Best Original Score Written For A Motion Picture Or A Television Special, 1970 Let It Be

Plus an Oscar for "Let It Be"

No Band Grammys, but "Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits" got a Best Album Cover award!

Posted on Mon Jul 9 14:35:52 CEST 2001 from spider-tr083.proxy.aol.com (152.163.201.213)

Brien Sz

Congrats Dave Z. May she be blessed with a wonderful, long and healthy life.

If i was going to be a fly on the wall for an album in the making it would be the Brown album - the club atmosphere thing has always intrigued me..,

Hall of Crap - All things Disco or disco related (except maybe Disco Duck)I see Journey gets a lot of Venom but pre-Escape music isn't that bad.., Their cd/album Captured, released before Escape is not a bad live.., couple songs are a prelude of what was to come but overall it rocked alright.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 14:22:20 CEST 2001 from wc1-int2.nbnet.nb.ca (198.164.200.230)

WS Walcott

The Hall of Crap, sounds interesting. I might as well put my 2 cents worth in. I've been away for awhile and haven't kept up on the GB, so I apologize if some of my entries have already been submitted. Here goes: Chicago, Moody Blues, Pablo Cruise, Van Halen, Aerosmith, Journey, latter day Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd, U2, Wings, Toto, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Styx, Kiss, Supertramp, Yes, Asia, the list goes on and on.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 14:17:29 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp88.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.88)

Diamond Lil

DaveZ: Congrats on the birth of your daughter! What a pretty name she has. My best to your wife and your little boys (who now assume the role of "big brothers" :-)

Have a friend visiting here today..going to find some smiles and memories in the (not too far) journey to Big Pink, and then spend alot of money that we don't have in Woodstock. A nice way to spend a summer's day. Perhaps even take some DFA along for the ride. Aah...

Have a good day everyone. Thanks Jess!

Posted on Mon Jul 9 11:40:11 CEST 2001 from (210.50.113.50)

Erin

Congratulations to Dave! I hope you're going to rock your daughter to sleep with one or two other Band songs. They all go in... I remember the songs my Dad sang to me...

BWNWIT: I don't know that one really well, but as I remember it it has some really nice stuff on it. From that series, I've got vol 12 & 13 which are the recordings Lomax made on St. Simons. One is early black secular music and the other is early black religious music. They're great: Bessie Jones, who sings on a lot of those recordings is pushing being my favourite singer (right behind Rick Danko.)

(Hey Tommy, I started when I was 15 too. Mum tried to teach me when I was 9 or 10, but I spat the dummy - my hands weren't big enough and not strong enough. I didn't have the patience - what a fool I was... So here I am, still doing scales, including the blues scale, trying to get a little faster, a little more dexterous...)

Posted on Mon Jul 9 10:14:20 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-022.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.22)

Peter Viney

CONGRATULATIONS to Dave Z

Posted on Mon Jul 9 06:30:48 CEST 2001 from dialup-302.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.46)

Hank

Listening to The BTs tonite........Which one is Levon on the front cover?.....Is he the guy in the straight jacket in the back?

"Indie" "Alternative" "New Wave" are all labels foistered upon acts by record companies.....who need to sell plastic to survive......these terms have nothing to do with music unlike "Punk' or "Grunge" or "Funk" or "Rap" or "Hip-Hop" which are terms that really DO have to do with music, musicians, performers, styles and attitude......just in case anyone was'nt clear on what I meant in a previous post.....OK?........ MATTK?

Oi!....yer all a bit harsh on The Stones, ain't yer?......."Voodoo Lounge" was a great record and you can bet your bellybutton that The Stones will release a new album soon enuff and it'll be real and the songs will be great and they'll play great shows.....What d'y'all want them to do?...make a movie of a farewell gig and then go in and overdub it for posterity?

Posted on Mon Jul 9 06:12:14 CEST 2001 from 1cust79.tnt38.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.151.79)

Crabgrass

Same goes for ABBA and the Starland Vocal Band. BTW I heard they think The Band is crap over at the Kenny G website.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 06:08:36 CEST 2001 from spider-wl062.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.47)

Dave Z

I just sang "Cherokee Morning Song" for the first time to my new baby daughter... Lynsey Rose... about an hour ago... 7 lbs and 4 oz... she looks just like her Momma... Now this proud Papa can really kick back and enjoy Levon & BBs on the 18th after you guys have warmed em' up in Canada... Life is good... Life is a carnival...

Posted on Mon Jul 9 05:51:10 CEST 2001 from 1cust79.tnt38.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.46.151.79)

Crabgrass

The Fabulous Fabian, Donny Osmond, and Kiss are not to my liking.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 05:47:10 CEST 2001 from fw04.nirai.ne.jp (202.239.129.37)

Fred

A summer vacation homework assignment (if you choose to accept it): If you could go back in time to be present at only ONE Band studio session (as an observer only, that way the course of history won't be altered) which one would it be? (Reasons are optional)

My pick would be the recording of Big Pink not only for its historical (musically that is) value, but to see them perform We Can Talk + The Weight and just how the venerable Mr. Hudson came about creating the intro to Chest Fever. Plus all those funky hats!!

Posted on Mon Jul 9 05:19:49 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-115-207.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.115.207)

BWNWITennessee

I got Vol. 4, "Brethren, We Meet Again: Southern White Spirituals." It's really good. I hope our library has some other ones; I'd love to get the whole series, but for a person of limited financial means, it's kind of unrealistic. Anyone else have this collection? It was a big influence on a lot of the folkies, and was somewhat recently rereleased on CD. Actually, I'm not sure if it's still in print. But this one's got "See That My Grave Is Kept Clean" on it.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 05:10:07 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tc082.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.187)

Bayou Sam

.....oh yeah - J Tull fan - I think the Beatles won a grammy for Let It Be, but I'd have to check to be sure.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 04:55:45 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tc082.proxy.aol.com (64.12.105.187)

Bayou Sam

My thoughts on the "Money" thread are that the Beatles cover of Money blew away the original. Lennon's vocal especially. The version he did on Live Peace in Toronto is cool too - it's a bit sloopy but cool to hear him do the tune live in '69.

I happen to like Boston, J. Geils, Thorogood, some Journey, the pre-Mr.Roboto Styyx ,and a few others mentioned. It's funny, I heard a great old J.Geils tune today on the radio called, "I Must Have Got Lost", and I thought that The Band could have done a nice job on that tune.

What qualifies a band or singer for our "hall of crap" is that it's just just something that one of us dosen't like - which dosen't make it crap. Remember - The Band would make alot of "hall of crap" lists out there on other websites.

I'm just reminded of a great little story that is part of George Martin's liner notes on the Beatles Live at the Hollywood Bowl album (1977). Martin says that his young daughter asked him if the Beatles were as great as the Bay City Rollers - his reply was, "probably not" (someday she'll find out).

Posted on Mon Jul 9 04:48:22 CEST 2001 from spider-wm023.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.158)

Tommy

Rod,,,I don't know if you play, but the Gibson Ripper is a REALLY nice bass.So easy to play.And it's not as heavy as it might look.I always look to get one, but they run pretty expensive,,,even used ones.

Erin,,good luck!I've been playing guitar since I was 15 and am learning scales even now!(I was always a rythm player,so I never had any use for scales.)All ya really gotta know is a blues scale.;)

Posted on Mon Jul 9 03:45:26 CEST 2001 from akcf3.xtra.co.nz (203.96.111.201)

Rod

Mike, in case no one answered your question, the bass Rick was playing on the 83 tours was a Gibson Ripper. He played a sunburst one at The Last Waltz. I'm not sure if it is the same one sanded down. Even though the Ripper has a large looking body it is probably thinner than a Fender - so it's not that heavy. The neck is also alot thinner than that of a Precision bass . Gibson also made a similiar looking bass called The Grabber which had only one pick up but you could slide it from the neck to about half way to the bridge. Interestingly Epiphone recently released a new version / copy of the Ripper which had just one pick up.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 02:54:33 CEST 2001 from 194.c.002.mel.iprimus.net.au (203.134.135.194)

Erin

BWNWIT: which Lomax field recordings did you get?

And Tommy, I am practising (it's not making perfect yet, or even close, but hope springs enternal.) Actually, if I'm reading the GB after work, I usually do some warm up scales at the same time. I have to get some work done of the violin, so today its back to the Fender. (I know RR says he doesn't believe in scales, but for mere mortals, its necessary!)

Posted on Mon Jul 9 01:17:36 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp120.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.120)

Mommy's little girl

Mom,your the best.For eleven years you've always been there for me.Anyway I.m wishing you a happy birthday.Tomorrow were going out to dinner,to celebrate. HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOM!

Posted on Mon Jul 9 01:05:42 CEST 2001 from ha62s509.d.shentel.net (204.111.63.253)

Spenser tour security Group

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Posted on Mon Jul 9 00:21:57 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

For those tempted to label my earlier comments as being "over-sensitive," allow me to point out that I never said it was unreasonable to make a negative comment about an artist. Do what you want, my point is simply that labeling this band or that band as "crap" is simply neither a respectful or honorable way to treat others, in my view. If labeling groups into "crap" and "non-crap" is the finest your scalpel can cut, so be it. It's your choice how you decide to treat others, and what you expect in return.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 00:13:34 CEST 2001 from host-209-214-117-62.bna.bellsouth.net (209.214.117.62)

BWNWITennessee

I hereby nominate Bad Company, Bachman-Turner Overdrive, Electric Light Orchestra for the Hall of Crap. Interestingly, in the vain pursuit of trying to think of something funny, I tried to find some fecally nomenclatured bands, and was not really able to. Anal C*nt being one possible exception (they really are a band), and Brownsville Station, but they're both pretty lame choices. I did think of Robert Plant's "Big Log" as being a suitable choice, but that's a song, not a band, so it doesn't count. So how about it, there's got to be some bands out there whose name has some connotations of the word "crap."

I went to our new multimillion-dollar library yesterday (one advantage of living in a city with an exploding population is that they keep building us new toys). They had a pretty good collection of CDs - I got some Charlie Patton, Blind Willie McTell, Skillet Lickers, Alan Lomax field recordings, King Oliver and Gottschalk. Napster be damned, my CD burner's gonna be busy. Interestingly, their collection of country music wasn't that great - kind of like Nashville itself, I suppose.

Posted on Mon Jul 9 00:12:49 CEST 2001 from www-cache-external.vuw.ac.nz (130.195.196.201)

ajr

RHOC a.k.a music I just don’t like for the benefit of the sensitive– U2, R.E.M, Nine Inch Nails.

Incidentally the last time I remember being upset because someone didn’t agree with my taste in music was when I was about 13. I had a big snit at my father for making mildly disparaging remarks about…U2. Strangely enough I now find I can’t listen to them with any pleasure myself.

D-Lil- the “no spam” seems reasonably effective. The odd bit of spam is still getting through but that may be coming from other places I’ve used my hotmail address and not the GB.

Posted on Sun Jul 8 23:26:58 CEST 2001 from spider-mtc-tg011.proxy.aol.com (64.12.102.151)

Donna

Just the other day, my daughter brought home a Cd that she bought at the mall. She was so excited about getting this Cd, stating that this was the greatest band she ever heard. As I listened to the Cd with her, all I could think of was this is the worst kind of noise I have ever heard. Knowing that she would take any negitive comments about this band personally, I decided to be like church lady from "Saturday Night Live" and say, "well isn't that special."

We all have our opinions when it comes to musical likes and dislikes. What it boils down to is respecting other's musical taste, because you can always walk away later and say to yourself, now that was crap.

7/13, I will be going to see Levon & The BarnBurner's in Toronto. Talk about getting siked!!!

Posted on Sun Jul 8 23:21:11 CEST 2001 from 1cust77.tnt9.poughkeepsie.ny.da.uu.net (63.10.13.77)

HI

The J.Geils Band were an excellent blues band.

Posted on Sun Jul 8 23:11:43 CEST 2001 from del-pm3-1-40.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.55)

Ann

ahrooo...just a joke...lighten up.

Posted on Sun Jul 8 23:05:25 CEST 2001 from du-tele3-127.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.127)

Peter Viney

Mea culpa. Misspelling ‘Frizzell’ is my fault, probably because just down the road from me was the ‘Frizell roundabout’. Or maybe it’s the ‘Frizzell Roundabout.’ Will have to check! Does this mean it's pronounced 'frizzle' to rhyme with 'drizzle?' If it had been 'Frizell' it would be pronounced 'Friz - elle". In fact my sentence says that :

“It was written by Nashville songwriters Danny Dill (composer of The Streets of Laredo) and Marijohn Wilkin (the writer of Jimmy Dean’s two hits, the JFK-mythologising P.T. Boat 109 and Big Bad John) in March 1959.”

The “boat” is plain wrong, but if you re-read “1959” refers back to ‘The long black Veil’ – “It”. Poor sentence construction, but note the close of parentheses which means “1959” does not refer to ‘Big Bad John’. The “boat” was my addition, I fear. I took the reference to Dill as writer of ‘Streets of Laredo’ from a source, but I agree that on (e.g.) the version by Prefab Sprout released this month, which I praised earlier in the week, it’s “Traditional.” But many traditional songs, from ‘Baby Please Don’t Go’ (which predates Big Joe Williams in 1935) to ‘Scarborough Fair’ (Traditional or Martin Carthy or Paul Simon) or ‘It Hurts Me Too’ (Tampa Red, or Elmore James or Bob Dylan) acquire composers along the line, and somewhere by someone ‘The Streets of Laredo’ must have been credited to Danny Dill. The more I look into rock history, the more I see errors multiplying and being repeated, and I’ve obviously repeated some here. I didn’t originate, but repeated sources. I’ve spent about an hour trying to trace them, but unusually for me, this isn’t footnoted and I have many box files of articles. Certainly ‘Big Bad John’ on Columbia Country Classics Vol 3 ‘Americana’ is credited to Jimmy Dean, as Larry says. My original notes mention PT 109, but not Big Bad john. I’m trying to puzzle out where I got the addition. I’ll try and find where I got these two references (it’s not Hoskyns, Marcus or Helm / Davies – checked all three).

Posted on Sun Jul 8 22:49:26 CEST 2001 from cn678991-a.sllrsvlle1.pa.home.com (65.10.248.74)

Alison

Hi, we just got home from Somers Point NJ. We saw the Barn Burners at Bubba Mac's Shack. Wow!

They tore the house down, they are so good.

I got a chance to talk with Amy upstairs near the bathrooms. Amy, I'll see you in the Poconos. I'm looking forward to it. Oh .. my Dad says Hi... too.

You guys are great. Love ya. Alison

Posted on Sun Jul 8 20:59:06 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp68.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.68)

Diamond Lil

MattK: You know, you're absolutely right. Just because I ( or someone else) doesn't like something..doesn't automatically make it 'crap'. Obviously, anything that goes into an 'art' makes it worth something..regardless of the likes and dislikes of folks. Perhaps it would've been smarter for me to say that I'd nominate J. Geils into the R&R Hall of music that leaves me cold. That would at least be more my opinion, rather than a generalization of their music.

Anyhow.. hope everyone's having a nice day out there. Especially you Mr.H.

Posted on Sun Jul 8 20:53:21 CEST 2001 from zorg129.revealed.net (208.243.237.129)

Mike

Maybe I was a little overzealous in my last post. I guess it comes down to a matter of opinion as to what you like and don't like. But what I don't like, the next person may LOVE! So, I ought to be more careful to not upset anyone. For example, I am an avid fan of The Guess Who (1968-1975) or any solo work by Burton Cummings. Incidentally, Domenic Troiano who was in The Guess Who from May 74-September 75 when they broke up was also In Ronnie Hawkins' band. I think he replaced Robbie if I am not mistaken. There's another canadian band who stayed true. But, we all have guilty pleasures in music that most others either have never heard of or would be turned off by. If I set my collection out, some people might laugh but I like a variety. So, I'll be more careful to not put other bands and others musical tastes down. I apologize. But, there are band I can't stand. I'm sure all of us GB'ers have at least 1 band we cant stand. Peace

Mike

Posted on Sun Jul 8 20:47:29 CEST 2001 from spider-wn043.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.168)

Tommy

MattK,,,it's all in good fun, buddy.Lighten up.Even if someone thinks what I like is crap, I don't care.I'm still gonna like it!Say whatever the hell you want.It's fun/funny to hear what different people's versions of "crap" is.So far, i agree with everyone's choices (except the Metallica one).

Posted on Sun Jul 8 20:25:13 CEST 2001 from proxy1-external.blfld1.ct.home.com (24.4.252.36)

AHROOO!!

Are you folks serious? Hall Of Crap? The mention of wanting to know who's your pick to go down in an airplane is really morbid. I thought Band fans had a little more sense than touch subjects like that.

What I want to know is about The Band. One question in particular, why doesn't anybody whine about Dylan getting royalties from "Music From Big Pink?" So what if he wrote some of the stuff, does that entitle him to half The Band's royalties? Why hasn't Levon gone off about that? If you have to talk about Robbie screwing his band of brothers, did anybody ever think that Dylan stole The Hawks from Levon as he was their frontman?

AHROOO!!

Posted on Sun Jul 8 19:42:20 CEST 2001 from atpm3-5-44.enter.net (208.137.243.238)

KZR

Okay. My vote for the Rock and Roll Hall of Crap. Anybody who gets paid to stand behind a mic and sing whatever the hell they're told to sing. You know, the ones who are created by the record company, groomed by the record company, and are there just to make millions for the record company. Here's the list (sorry if I left any out): The Monkeys, The Bay City Rollers, Leif Garrett, New Kids, Menudo, N'Sync, Backstreet Boys, Britney, Christina, Vanilla Ice, The Village People. I know there are many others. Please feel free to add to the list.

Posted on Sun Jul 8 19:30:37 CEST 2001 from ci956332-a.nash1.tn.home.com (65.8.218.86)

Larry Wayne Clark

Hi, I came upon this website following a thread of research concerning Marijohn Wilkin, co-writer of "The Long Black Veil." My comments have little to do with The Band per se but, for whatever it's worth, I'm seeing some errors on that particular page. First of all it's Lefty Frizzell, not "Frizell," as repeatedly stated. A few other things, very peripheral but erroneous or at least suspect nonetheless: Marijohn Wilkin did NOT co-write "Big Bad John." Jimmy Dean wrote that by himself. I don't know whether or not she co-wrote Dean's lesser hit "PT 109" (which is the correct title, not "P.T. Boat 109") but I believe that single came out in '62. It was certainly later than '59, as stated on the page. Danny Dill the author of "The Long Black Veil"?! First I've heard of that and it's got to be wrong. To my knowledge that song is legitimately in the public domain (as many people mistakenly believe "Long Black Veil" to be), a bonafide cowboy standard. Danny Dill still performs around Nashville from time to time, singing "Long Black Veil" and "Detroit City" (his other smash hit as recorded by Bobby Bare in the early '60s), and reciting humorous poetry. Next time I see him maybe I'll ask him about "Streets Of Laredo"...but I know what the answer will be. LWC

Posted on Sun Jul 8 19:01:28 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

Tommy, sadly, there ARE quite a few people out there who like Kansas and Boston (and REO and Journey, for that matter). I'm just not sure what is gained by having to state your opinion at the expense of their taste. I suspect if we layed yours or my CD/Record collection out for all to see, there would be things in both our collections that others may not find any value in whatsoever - stuff a majority of Americans might describe as "crap."

Posted on Sun Jul 8 18:53:06 CEST 2001 from spider-wl054.proxy.aol.com (205.188.199.44)

Tommy

MattK,,,,When someone says that KANSAS or BOSTON is crap,I'm sure (I HOPE!) no one here is gonna get their feelings hurt.

And if they DID,,,well,that's their problem!

Posted on Sun Jul 8 17:54:00 CEST 2001 from cmldme-cmt1-c4-24-25-179-110.maine.rr.com (24.25.179.110)

MattK

See, the problem with this "Hall of Crap" idea is it's subjectively negative and bound to rankle some folks' feathers. It's one thing to say you like something and have someone disagree - if I like something you don't, there's no implied insult. However, if we start hollering about what we think is crap, someone's gonna get pissed at someone. "Crap" is an objective way of asserting something best left to the subjective. If I look at your house and say it's not to my taste, I doubt there will be a problem. If I look at your house and say it's crap, then I suspect you'll be offended.

Example: it doesn't bother me that Lil doesn't like J. Geils. It's quite another to call them "crap." J. Geils is one of the finest neo-blues groups to come out of the late 60s. For all of their pop commercial success in the early 80s, their output in the early 70s, to me rivals Paul Butterfield's work, and Magic Dick vs. Butterfield as harp players ends in a draw. "Freeze Frame" and "Centerfold" may be less-than-inspiring (though being in HS at the time, I found them kinda fun), but I find it objectionable to label the J. Geils Band "crap."

Incidentally, I don't mean to pick on Lil, specifically. Unfortunately, her nomination was one I strongly disagree with. I could just as easily point out that I don't think Pink Floyd is crap, and state my belief that if it wasn't for the early 90s "alternative"/grunge movement, Rock and Roll had died sometime back in the early 80s. After all, if not for "alternative" there would have been no interruption between the likes of New Kids on the Block and Tiffany to N'Synch and Brittany Spears.

Believe me, I could rattle of a list of band's that I consider "crap." I guess I just put a high value on respecting other people's taste - and I'm not sure what's gained from such an exercise. Play if you want, but I'm sitting this one out.

Posted on Sun Jul 8 17:43:49 CEST 2001 from 209-130-180-158.nas1.mon.gblx.net (209.130.180.158)

Lars

I'm kind of surprised that no one has written anything about the musical theatre production of "Largo" which has now played three times (today-Sunday- will be the last show). I'm sure there's someone out there who could write a good post about it, but since no one has come forward, I'll give it my best shot.

My wife and I went over to see "Largo" on Sat. afternoon at Vassar College in Poughkeepsie. When we got around back to the tiny theatre (probably capacity of 100 people) I was surprised to see how informal everything seemed to be. Two of the main characters (Cyndi Lauper and Erin Hill) were practicing with their flutes right next to the line of people waiting to get in. Garth was getting out of his SUV about 20 feet away and I went over to help him carry his equipment. Some of the other actors were mingling with the crowd, everybody was very accessible, something that doesn't happen too often in a concert setting.

We went in and the show started and I thought of Rick Danko's favorite line "this is like playing in someone's living room." The feeling I got was that we were in the midst of musicians who were "taking a shot" at acting. Not that the acting was bad (I thought Cyndi Lauper, dressed in a "washer woman" costume and playing the part of the spirit "Ramona," was really good), but it seemed to me the music was the best part of the show. David Forman is a tremendous talent and I thought his songs sounded even better than the cd "Largo" (which I've listened to so often that I had to go out and get another copy after I wore out the first one). This show is a "work in progress" as they admitted in the introduction. Some of the lines had been re-written that very day. It seemed like they were trying to expand on the "Largo" album, to expain the songs and how they came to be. One "string" that came up a few times was that, as musicians who had helped others write music, a number of them felt bad about how their partners in their bands had taken the credit for the music they had written together. Sounded familiar.

"Garth's Largo" was one of the three songs Garth performed, they used a tape of Maude Hudson's voice to accompany him. It was one of the highlights of the show.

There's a lot more, but Ive got to go out and feed my ducks now.

Posted on Sun Jul 8 17:39:45 CEST 2001 from del-pm3-1-37.jvlnet.com (216.145.200.52)

Ann

Thanks to Pat Brennan and Charlie Young for the tips on which CD's to check out. Charlie...I've seen Johnnie Johnson a few times so I had an idea of what to look for...thanks for the reply and Pat I'll be out looking for the new Marcia Ball cd today!

As far as the R&R Hall of Crap...a few years back I was searching for info on Stevie Ray and came across a site where you could fill a plane with artists that you wouldn't mind seeing in a plane crash...I tried to fill every seat with Michael Bolton but it wasn't allowed. The web site developer assured me though that Michael Bolton...along with Steve Perry...both had seats on the plane. I'm a little concerned with Aerosmith these days!

Have a great day all...It's a hot one in Wisconsin!

Posted on Sun Jul 8 17:17:47 CEST 2001 from cfa1.execulink.net (199.166.6.10)

Paul Godfrey

One week from tonight..Levon & the Barn Burners burn up London Canada. This Paul y'all SHINE ON & don't forget to BOOGIE!

Posted on Sun Jul 8 16:19:57 CEST 2001 from jed39.revealed.net (208.23.178.134)

Mike

Rock And Roll Hall Of Crap? Interesting thread...Hmm, let's see now...

Metallica, Poison, Motley Crue, and every "hair" band you know of from the mid 80's to late 90's, Any current band/singer/product that you see on MTV or VH1, Pink Floyd (I prefer Nyquil to put me to sleep, at least it packs a punch!), Any Stones stuff after Get Yer Ya Ya's Out, Boston, Kiss (all time corporate sell-out's!), Journey, Styx, Kansas, etc...I could go on and on believe me :)

I have to say that there really any groundbreaking working nowadays, at least not any "current" ones. Though there are great musicians still working of course. Only the serious music fans know of them, including us GB'ers. It seems that if you're truly a great musician and not good looking enough, you won't be successful. After all, you have to look good enough for MTV and VH1 don't you? Be ready to endorse a cola company as well! I mean, could you imagine The Band or any other talented ensemble that you love singing for Pepsi, Coke, Nike, Pizza Hut or whatever else?! It's apalling! Look at Canadian band Rush...Never were photogenic, critics ahted and still do hate them. But, as a trio they could play above and beyond what 6 piece bands could ever do. And look at how successful they are...they have stayed true to their music, like The Band did (also Canadian, mostly!). I hope that one day rock music will dominate FM radio again instead of this gawd awful top 40 schlock/product. Ok, it's raining and lightning outside...time to get off the computer. Peace.

Mike

Posted on Sun Jul 8 14:27:06 CEST 2001 from dialup-350.cork.iol.ie (193.203.148.94)

Hank

The RRHofCrap, you say? Nice one, Crabby!!!

1 Sha-Na-Na.......2 Sid'n'Nancy......3 anything labelled "Alternative" "New Wave" or "Indie"...these labels have NOTHING to do with Rock'n'Roll.........

Posted on Sun Jul 8 13:29:46 CEST 2001 from 1cust8.tnt54.nyc3.da.uu.net (63.42.155.8)

King Whistle

Hall of C: Melissa Etheridge...for me, as cliched as they come.

Posted on Sun Jul 8 13:09:50 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp70.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.70)

Lil Again

Oops..I wanted to cast my vote for an inductee into the R&R Hall of Crap. The J. Geils Band. Nuff said.

Posted on Sun Jul 8 13:04:33 CEST 2001 from grmn-105ppp70.dialup.valstar.net (199.224.105.70)

Diamond Lil

Last night I dragged myself to a large communtity gathering that I wasn't going to attend. My kids had been there since early afternoon, and I was pretty much enjoying the quiet house ( a rare treat for a mom sometimes). At some point I decided to drive over and surprise the kids. Imagine my surprise when I got out of the car and heard "Up on Cripple Creek" coming from the bandstand! What a great way to start an evening! And it wasn't until I got closer that I noticed that I knew the guitarist/singer, who really spooked me when he did "Classical Gas" a few minutes later! And no.. he doesn't read this guestbook. Hmm.....

I've noticed that there are a few of you here that put "no spam" in your hotmail addresses..and I was wondering if it works? If one more person sends me info on how to enlarge my penis, I'm going to scream. Thanks.