The Band Guestbook, January 2003

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Peter Viney

When "Ghosts of Hallelujah" was released one of the British rock mags described it as the ultimate album for product-starved Band fans, so I bought it. Haven't played it for a couple of years, but on Ed's recommendation I will.

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Pat Brennan

Entered at Fri Jan 31 23:32:06 CET 2003 from du-tele3-105.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.105)

Peter Viney

Going back to the time of Ode - we (me + friends) were often driving to London then and it was ALWAYS on the radio. I think that while it was current a "ring" was the accepted projectile- only somewhat later did people realize what Bobbie Gentry was really getting at. "Clothesline Saga" picked up on Gentry's wonderful ear for mundane dialogue rather than the story. It's a great lyric, seriously. One any songwriter could be proud of.

Hey Baby, by Bruce Channel has been cited as the inspiration for 'Love Me Do' by The Beatles just a few months later - check the harmonica.

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Sonny Milne

Just wanted to share early history of the band.I was the first drummer to replace Levon when the Band split from the Hawk. Don Trioano replaced Robbie Robertson. Dom started what became canadian Bush to replace Joe Walsh in James Gang.

Entered at Fri Jan 31 22:13:42 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Ed Voci

Subject: Bones, Bumbles, Bruce Chanel

Bones, I always wondered about the deletion of TNTDODD from stages shows from the 1980's onward.

Bumbles: This is uncanny on Bruce Chanel. No sooner had I posted something on the Gourds list about Delbert playing harmonica on Chanel's "Hey Hey Baby" when I turned back to this GB and boom the same discussion is going on here. DMc and BC. Cosmic synchronicity. Wow. I was eleven when Hey Hey Baby came out and I loved it. But there was this "beep" sound in the middle of the song that I finally figured out, many years later, was as an errant guitar note. The note just jumps off the record. Has anyone else heard it? (They're all too young on the Gourds list.) Then, I learned from Don Imus of all people maybe two years ago that DMc played that luscious harmonica part. And today I learn that BC co-wrote a song The Band covered, "Stand Up". Live, learn and die. edwardvoci@aol.com

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Lil

Have a good evening. Hug Jan.

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Bones

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franko

Subject: ode to billie joe lyrics

all these years I thought Bobbie Gentry sang "bloody", not "muddy" in the last verse.

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Bumbles

Subject: B. Channel

Bruce Channel also co-wrote "Stand Up," a 1985 country hit for Mel McDaniel that later turned up as the leadoff track on "High on the Hog."

Entered at Fri Jan 31 19:53:05 CET 2003 from 56k-socal-02-24.dial.qnet.com (209.221.198.135)

Dave tpg

David,,,,thanks for the Bruce Channel link.

Is that THE Skyliner Lounge in Fort Worth that is mentioned in TLW as having no roof? This could be the Delbert/The Band connection removed a couple of times.

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David Powell

Subject: Riveting performances

Bob Wigo mentioned Levon's tour de force, TNTDOD. I can recall seeing Rick give riveting performances of "Stage Fright", "Loving You Is Sweeter Than Ever" and "It Makes No Difference". I vividly remember that the last time I saw Richard performing with The Band, he could still weave magic with "The Shape I'm In", "Georgia" and "You Don't Know Me". Having three singers who could shine in the spotlight at different moments during a concert was certainly one of the group's unique assets. Of course, Robbie could make those guitar strings sing, and Garth was a one-man orchestra in himself.

Delbert McClinton is a great live performer, in the tradition of juke joint shouters who can capture even the rowdiest of crowds. His magnificent harmonica solo on Bruce Channel's 1962 hit "Hey Baby" is one of those transcedent moments in rock history! (see above link)

Entered at Fri Jan 31 19:01:40 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Empty Now

For the GBers The Kansas Lyrics below dont signify a lot if you dont listen to the song, it is really....

Ed: Pardon and thanks for the intention only, i realized later for Mandella......I'm gonna to disapoint you at my time. The great men and women are actually posting here in this GB, whatever is their continent...coming soon...

Entered at Fri Jan 31 18:55:24 CET 2003 from du-tele3-133.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.133)

Peter Viney

I always felt that the power in the song was guessing what they'd thrown off the bridge but not knowing for sure. The film is a different thing, but at least at the time Bobbie Gentry was firmly enigmatic, refusing to reveal whether it was a still-born baby or an engagement ring or whatever. Of course if she'd revealed it was a baby, she wouldn't have got air play in those days. The great thing about the lyric is the homely dialogue,

Entered at Fri Jan 31 18:40:45 CET 2003 from (81.22.75.26)

Empty Now

Ed, Jtull Fan: Thanks

Be indulgent with my egocentricity, I resisted 6 months in the GB before introducing the Kansas band. The group, primarily attached to the Kansas State reached the world audience with this album and the charismatic figure of Kerry Livgren. He is actually wonderful in both musical and poetic aspect. It is said the New Jtull for some backgrounds and collaboration with Jtull members. I prefer as already said “The group with the Shakespearean text and the Schubertian music”. While the musical aspect is various it embrases a wide range of styles, where at every song the signature of Livgren is present.

Back to my song, the Truth is pain to see, Ed it’s your #4 that made my identification to the song.
By posting the lyrics, i give precision in advance to not make any allusion with the GB or The Band in the present days. ( any resemblance with...is....)
Ed, you can also ask for the lyrics of any other song

“It's EMPTY NOW, no friendly face, and nothing lives within
I look around and I find no trace To tell me what has been
So far I've come to find there's no one here, no life I fear
I came for nothing, they have gone And Nobody's Home

I came to learn, perhaps to teach But I can tell somehow
The world that I was sent to reach Has got no future now
Across the galaxy to spread the word, and no one heard
I came for nothing, I'm alone And Nobody's Home

A requiem was never sung, no elegy was read
No monument was carved in stone in memory of the dead
For those who made this place do not remain, they feel no pain
A stranger fate was never known”

For both Ed and Jtull fan, now the urgence is over, i suggest you strongly, when you have a lot of time, in this album: “Hopelessly Human”, “Closet Chronicle”, ‘The Knew”

Ed: Thus I will preserve my name, Amen.

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bob wigo

Subject: Bayou Sam & all other Beatles fans

This link's for you.

Entered at Fri Jan 31 17:38:42 CET 2003 from 56k-socal-02-35.dial.qnet.com (209.221.198.146)

Dave the Phone Guy

Yawn,

Excuse me, I meant JAN, thanks bunches for getting the latest photo gallery up on your webpage.I could spend all morning wandering around the woods of those photos.It's a fantastic addition to an un-matched website.

BTW, Delbert McClinton is playing 4 shows in Norway this spring.You really ought to make some of these.

IIkka, you must be close enough to attend also.Delbert's plays some good harmonica and his brother-in-law George is mighty fine on bass.Style-wise he's closer to the blues and R&B side of things than The Band,but he can turn-in a great ballad too.Delbert's first single came out in 1959, so he has tenure as a common point with my favorite group.

LONG LIVE THE BAND !

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Bill

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Mike from NJ

Whenever I hear Ode to Billy Joe I laugh to think of Dylan and the Hawks writing "Clothesline Saga" to poke fun at Bobbi Gentry's conversational detail laden dirge.

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Ed Voci

Subject: Hot Politics ("Hot Tics") and what happened to Bobbie Gentry

To Pat and all: My "P.S." on Mandela and the current war really was intended for Empty Now (is anyone else worried about him or her?)as he is from Africa and I saw the Mandela report on AOL just before I wrote about his song, but, duh, I agree, it was bound to draw fire. PLEASE, as my friend JTull Fan has done, email me off line for non-Band Hot Tics stuff (humor from all sides is particularly appreciated). However, for the record, on the matter of John T's point about the Democrats, they are a bunch of feckless cowards afraid to face the tide of chauvinism/arrogance/jingoism who have passed the buck to the President which is where Bush and mass murderer Harry "The buck stops here" Truman wanted it(this reference to Hiroshima/Nagasaki should bring me some emails).

What happened to Bobbie Gentry? edwardvoci@aol.com

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JTull Fan (us2inva at excite dot com)

Subject: Let's declare a tie and forget about it.

Ok, we had Ed's comment and John W's response. I say they cancel each other out and we are tied 1-1. Let's leave it at that!

Entered at Fri Jan 31 17:42:10 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

JTull Fan

Subject: Blues Bash in NYC next week

Now this one intrigues me: Levon Helm is performing at an event to be filmed by a crew produced by Martin Scorcese. I know it won't happen, but it's fun to imagine him pulling some strings and getting Robbie to show up for a jam.

Entered at Fri Jan 31 17:41:39 CET 2003 from (208.51.156.55)

Lars

Subject: Ode to Billy Joe

It's been a long time since I saw "Ode to Billy Joe," which IMHO was a mediocre movie at best. Robby Benson played Billy Joe McAllister and Glynnis O'connor (SP?) played Bobbi Gentry, a fifteen year old girl who's hormones are running amok. Bobbi is the object of Billy Joe's lust, but her parents won't let her date yet. (If you've ever raised a teenage girl then you know they are stricken with hormones at this age and their life is in turmoil until they find a boyfriend. Then you, the parent, have to hope that you can trust them not to make any major mistakes. The word "condoms" comes to mind, although the parent wishes they would not "do it.")Bobbi is in the awkward stage of leaving childhood and becoming a woman. She still has some kind of doll named Benjamin (which I guess represents her childhood innocence), but she is drawn to Billy Joe and to becoming a woman.

Bearing all that in mind, the couple are up on the Tallahatchie Bridge and Billy Joe wants Bobbi. When she refuses and starts playing with her childhood doll Benjamin, Billy Joe gets angry and throws the doll (Bobbi's innocence) into the river. Therefore, your answer to what they threw off the brige is a doll called Benjamin.

The rest of the movie involves Billy Joe getting violated by a man and he's so distraught that he jumps off the bridge himself. Bobbi leaves town for a while, making everyone believe that the suicide was caused by her getting pregnant. Thus Billy Joe is not remembered as a homosexual, which seems very important to Bobbi.

In the words of Mark Twain, "...so there ain't nothing more to write about, and I am rotten glad of it..."

And Pat Brennan, I still believe the Civil War was fought over States Rights, with slavery certainly being the major disagreement between the two sides. The common solier from the North (except some abolistionists) was fighting to preserve the Union, while the common soldier from the South was fighting to defend his homeland from invasion. Pat, be careful when you open your mailbox 'cause now I'm pissed. (Just kidding, that was just some irony.)

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Rollie

I strayed from the path........can someone tell me the bridge to "Jemima Surrender"?

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bob wigo

"Let it be."

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Pat Brennan

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rollie

Norm Scweizkopf, commander in Desert Storm, in a BBC interview, has come out against war in Iraq. I'll take his word for it...............

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John W.

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MattK

"Oooooh irony! Oh...no...no. We don't get that here. See, people ski topless here while smoking dope, so irony is not really a high priority. We haven't had any irony here since about '83 when I was the only practitioner of it and I stopped because I was tired of being stared at."

- CD Bales (Steve Martin) in "Roxanne"

Entered at Fri Jan 31 16:09:08 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.127)

bob wigo

Great news Butch! See you all at the North Star Bar.

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John D

Subject: Tallahatchie Bridge/Diamond Lil

The speculation was that a "baby" was thrown off the Tallahatchie Bridge Lil; but according to the link I have left by someone who has studied the lyrics closely.......that may NOT be true.

Entered at Fri Jan 31 15:11:33 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.127)

bob wigo

Anyone here familiar with a Louisville, Kentucky based band called "My Morning Jacket"? I heard a great tune on WXPN this morning and would like to know more about them.

Just curious.

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Calvin

This may be a dark reading of it Lil, but considering Billy Joe killed himself on that spot it was obviously something that brought him great guilt and remorse. I always took it to be their child.

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JTull Fan

Subject: Empty Now, Ed, Pat, etc.

Pat: I hate it when I don't get the joke. Sorry! Empty Now, I hate to dissappoint you, but I will have to examine your last post and the song you described more closely. I was not aware of the Doanne Perry link, thank-you so much for letting me know about it!. Bad enough not having 2 cents to add, worse yet when I'm ASKED to pontificate and still can't find my two cents. Ed Voci: Shame on you. Without comment on the substance of your last political post, I must say I am dissapointed that you have reverted to name-calling of political figures, which has started the flaming process in the past. Can we not go there?

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Ed Voci

Subject: Empty Now, Nobody's Home

Dear Empty Now,

The sense of urgency in your last post worries me a bit. So this is a rushed reaction. As you know, I purchased "Point of Know Return" yesterday. I am unfamiliar with the rock group Kansas, except for their hit "Dust in the Wind". I listened to the song "Nobody's Home" twice and read the liner notes which are tiny and in a script making them very difficult to read. First, I liked the piano and violin parts a lot. The song is erie. Possible takes on it being from the standpoint of: 1) God or the second coming; 2) man or woman landing on the moon or some other planet; 3) a visitor to Earth after the nuclear holocaust; 4) a family member, educated in a distant land or well travelled around the world, returns to his native land after a long absence only to find that his childhood home, for tragic reasons, is empty now. I fear this last is you, my friend. edwardvoci@aol.com

P.S. Hooray for that great man on your continent, Nelson Mandela, who spoke out mightily today against Bush's war. Did you know when in Congress Dickhead Cheney voted against a resolution supporting the release of Mandela from prison? And against sanctions toward apartheid? I espeically liked Mandela's take on Tony Blair, the new "foreign minister of the United States".

Entered at Fri Jan 31 12:29:39 CET 2003 from mcha-ai152.taconic.net (205.231.28.152)

Lil

I have a question. Anyone remember that old tune by Bobbie Gentry.."Ode to Billie Joe"? Every now and then I hear it (I heard it in the car again last night).. and although it always gives me a chilling, eerie feeling.. I've never been sure what exactly the tune is about. I get the feeling that the line about "said he saw a girl who looked alot like you up on choctaw ridge, and she and billie joe was throwing something off the Tallahatchee bridge".. is probably the line that solves the 'mystery'.. but for the life of me.. I can never figure out _what_ they threw off that bridge. Anyone know? Thanks.

Have a good day everyone.

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Empty Now

I can add, with a lot of egocentric megalomania: and Empty Now singing “Nobody’s Home” of Kansas accompainied by his previous amator band. Ed, please, i am waiting for a feedback, this is not an obsession, i have not enough time beyond.....i’m serious.

BTW: Jtull fan, please help me to encourage Ed to give us his critic of that song. You may have a good reason, the song track was recorded with the presence of Doane Perry, the drummer of Jethro Tull. Kerry Livgren and Steve Walsh, composer, and singer of Kansas, worked for a long time with Doane Perry in late 80s -:) for more informations

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Empty Now

Subject: Who do you love

BEG: I loved the poem you posted yesterday and, with your permission, I made the connection with which is my true belief now: the GB is a rare chance for us to be ourselves (you can disagree). Infortunately, i am really a Lou Reed prophane. This seems contradictory for a Bob Dylan fan. Even when i said previously that i was an anachronic punk listener, i thought more exactely of The Cure and Clash. It is likely a question of sound effect, we the non English speakers are first attracted by the music, the words are enjoyed given our ability of understanding and feeling their deep meaning. I am not so intelectual than you can imagine. I just have some years ago a Lou vynil album with black cover and a song where he says “Du Du Du.... Du Du Du Du...” that’s all what i remember, I gived it for a present to a then friend of mine who was really involved in Lou Reed, The Velvet Underground, Truman Kaput, Andy Warhol (I understood that all that folks fit into the same set)...while he lent me the book of Kerouak “On the Road” to read (to reed).........
Since as usual, i like to give pleasure even when i am out of context : Here is a link for your Brown Eyes only, A whole website dedicated to Lou Reed.......in one language i know so well......it is a new chance for me.......Never to late -:)

Pat, Bob, and Lars again...Thanks for comments on Levon performance
Bob: let me just add “A great song written by a great songwriter and performed by a man whose heart and soul went into every word”...and to ear and body of several generations of listeners throughout the world.

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Pat Brennan

Entered at Fri Jan 31 06:12:50 CET 2003 from 1cust208.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.208)

Crabgrass

Subject: Heart & Soul

Intrinsically connected to the singer? Heart and soul into every word?

How about "It's A Man's World" by James Brown or "When A Man Loves A Woman" by Percy Sledge? "Tears of Rage?" "Just Like A Woman?" I could go on...

All far beyond Levon's "Dixie."

Sorry!!

Entered at Fri Jan 31 05:33:24 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Bob Wigo = nice thread idea. How about McCartney and "Hey Jude". I'll have to think of more, but that one popped into my mind.

I couldn't agree with you more about "Dixie" though. Levon and that song are one.

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Ed Voci

Subject: Bob Wigo; songs performed with total heart &soul a la LH in TLW on TNTDODD

I saw The Who in 1970 at the Boston Music Hall (the loudest thing I have ever heard) and Roger Daltrey's performance in "I Won't Get Fooled Again" before about 3000 people was explosive, passionate and unbelieveably charismatic. I got goosebumps hearing Luciano Pavarotti sing "Nessun Dorma", in Central Park, NYC, on June 26, 1993. A man, his voice, and his soul bared to 500,000 people. "Nessun Dorma" (No one sleeps) (from Pucini's "Turandot" ) is song by a man contemplating his fate the night before the next's days challenge that may result in his death. The song ends with "Vincero! Vincereo! Vincero!" ("I shall win! I shall win! I shall win!") on increasingly higher and louder notes culiminating with a sustained and turbo-charged high B (I think's it's B). I never saw him in person, but Elvis doing "Heartbreak Hotel" in the '68 Comeback Special is in that league.

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Nancy

Entered at Fri Jan 31 01:57:05 CET 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp190429.sympatico.ca (64.229.3.80)

brown eyed girl

Wow....even Dylan is gonna take notice here....as he has many times before.....but this time......I can see that Laurie Anderson has indeed continued to inspire.....Louuuu on bass and vocals.....Ornette Coleman on alto sax....Did ya all hear that sound just now?.....It was Pat Brennan who just fell off his chair.........That's right.....Ornette Coleman!....."I Wanna Know" (The Pit and the Pendulum) with the Blind Boys of Alabama...Why not? Louuu sang "Soul Man" with Sam of Sam and Dave afterall......"Who Am I"?.....Alright Louuuu!....You always put the mirror to your soul as you grew up in public......"The Raven"....the one and only Willem Dafoe....."The Bed"....revisited in 2003......

To my mind Poe is father to William Burroughs and Hubert Selby. I am forever fitting their blood to my melodies. Why do we do what we should not? Why do we love what we cannot have? Why do we have a passion for exactly the wrong thing? What do we mean by "wrong"?

Peter Viney, Empty Now, Al Edge, Eddie Blayzor, Ray Pence and Bill Munson....:-D.....Btw Bill.....Louuuu even has a couple of Canadians on The Raven.....Kate and Anna McGarrigle.....

For those who are twitchin'.....Band connection....Louuuu played on the same gig as Garth Hudson at the Doc Pomus Tribute at The Bottom Line.....

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Ed Voci

Subject: Hank, JTullFan, Dixie Rising

Sorry to all if I missed the target on the politics stuff.

Hank, honey, you did not tick me off with your opinions, but yer gettin’ me hairs up with this apology stuff. You do not owe me an apology (but if you and Pat want to go at each other I’ll grab a pint, watch and declare the winner). Your subsequent explanation about what you wrote is truly appreciated and speaks volumes about your character. If anyone owes an apology it might be me for giving you the impression with my strident argumentation that I was angry at YOU. I haven’t been angry at an Irishmen since Bobby Kennedy bugged Martin Luther King’s bedrooms looking for communists. This is discussion. Good discussion. And good discussion is good. But, we’d better watch out, someone might learn something, as Pat mentioned.

Now on this The South will rise again business, you are absolutely, flat out, 100% correct. The very best thing I read during the ‘90’s (except LH’s book TWOF) was “Dixie Rising: How the South Is Shaping American Values, Politics and Culture” by Peter Applebome, the New York Times’ Atlanta bureau chief. He does a magnificent job of weaving back and forth between current times and ante-bellum America demonstrating what he calls “The Southernization of America”. He argues that the political agenda of the Southern States is parallel to that of the ante-bellum South (States Rights, anti-organized labor, de facto segregation, etc.) and goes on to demonstrate how the South’s agenda and its brand of conservatism, race relations, labor relations, religion, politician, music, food, etc. have come to influence the entire country like no other region. It is beautifully done, extremely informative and a really, really good read. Naturally..ahem…in his chapter on how Nashville and southern music took over the music industry there is a stellar reference to THE BAND. He likens The Tractors to our boys (“…music that perfectly caught the pinched, weary truculence of working-class America and turned it into something ragged and sublime at the same time. It was what The Band might have sounded like if they had spent their formative years playing at roadhouses in Lubbock, Tulsa, Odessa, and Amarillo.” Think what you may about The Tractors or Applebome's musical mind, the point is that our boys remain the bench mark for what’s real and good about Southern music (please back me up on this, it’s pretty big talk). [N.B. I am convinced that Applebome would have used The Gourds, rather than The Tractors, as an example of good, non-conformist Southern music had The Gourd’s first album been out when he wrote the book] So, as The South rises again, The Band is going along for the ride.

I ain't a Civil War-head. I'm a Bandhead for life and fast becomeing a Gourds-head (more commonly known as a "Gourdito")

JTull Fan: Thank you for your support.....even if you are a no-good, low-down, pin-headed souless Bush-loving Republican mf'er. :-) By the way, I never saw Tull in concert and am a fan, but I was in the Dallas airport a few years ago and lo and behold there, being pushed in a wheelchair surrounded by a motley and silent entourage, was Ian Anderson, caped, bearded, craggy, and with a silver tipped cane clutched in his hand. At first I thought it was Gen. Lee, but there’s no doubt it was him because I’d seen his photo and “Jethro Tull” was stenciled on a number of crates and cases that his people were lugging. Eventually I will visit the JT website, but if you have a current update, it would be appreciated. edwardvoci@aol.com

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butch

Subject: philly dawg

ok, kids,,, The North Star,,,,,,,,

April 18th ----------------- confirmed !!!!!!!!!!!!!

see ya there,,,,,,

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Briana

I really liked the picture from the Rock Hall of Fame. I could really get into your style of music. I wish you all the best of luck in your future endeavours.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 23:35:31 CET 2003 from du-tele3-087.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.87)

Peter Viney

I'm only trying to avoid the around and around you mention. As to African-Americans being uncomfortable with the debate on slavery, I'm minded of an (American) editor who told me a photo of a New England town selected for one of my books was unacceptable. The reason? A church was prominent in the main street. She believed this might cause offence to people of other religions. I said, but in small New England towns the church is the most prominent building. No matter, it was deemed as potentially offensive. I don't for a minute think it was. You can't fall over backwards and second-guess what might cause offence. Failing to mention slavery would offend me if I were African American, not mentioning it.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 23:25:01 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

John W.

Peter V. - Everything in life is political in one way or another. I could picture some African Americans might get a bit uncomfortable with some of the recent subject matter. Others have been bothered by some of the comments about domestic abuse. So I don't see why the Bush/Clinton stuff is any different, although it is tedious when the arguments just go 'round and 'round. The only thing that bothers me is the attitude I sense that anti-Bush comments are acceptable because they're so obviously "just facts" but the pro-Bush (pro-American) comments are not welcome.(By the way, let's hear it for Norway, whose F-16's helped the U.S. forces in Afghanistan the other day, the first bombs dropped by Norwegian forces since WWII!)

Entered at Thu Jan 30 23:10:37 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.151)

bob wigo

The experience of seeing and hearing "The Last Waltz" in a well equipped theater was wonderful. The clearest recollection I have of that evening was looking around at an audience that was absolutely transfixed by Levon's performance. I really can not think of any popular song that was so intrinsically connected to a singer. A great song written by a great songwriter and performed by a man whose heart and soul went into every word.

Anyone have any songs that compare in that regard?

Entered at Thu Jan 30 22:53:22 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Entered at Thu Jan 30 22:45:23 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Nick Gravenites with Big Brother & the Holding Co. on "Be A Brother". Later covered by Pure Prairie League on "Two Lane Highway".

Entered at Thu Jan 30 22:33:16 CET 2003 from du-tele3-099.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.99)

Peter Viney

Ed- what’s “political” doesn’t involve the origins of the Civil War or Acadie or Native Americans or Wounded Knee or nuclear showdown (all legitimate IMHO) - it’s the old Clinton / Bush stuff (which has nothing to do with The Band) reappearing which always leads to bad feeling. On ‘Acadian Driftwood’ it is about the difference between English-speaking North Americans and French-speaking North Americans. Though Robbie screwed up the dates anyway, neither Canada nor the USA existed either at the correct date or the wrong date (what went down on the Plains of Abraham several years later) and as the Acadians moved along the coast, what hurt the most was the people there said keep moving on. So the Acadians got no refuge as they moved past New England and the Atlantic Seaboard – it’s not only (what would later become) Ontario that was worried about French colonial v British colonial ambitions or who rejected them. We’re into an earlier period of US history – let it roll.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 22:28:01 CET 2003 from h-68-164-227-97.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.227.97)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Thu Jan 30 22:25:56 CET 2003 from h-68-164-227-97.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.227.97)

Pat Brennan

Ahh, the performance of Dixie. Some random thoughts: the horn intro on RoA was still in use during the 1976 tour but was rewritten for TLW to incorporate the "look away" part of the original "Dixie". The RoA version was quite laid back (as were many of the other songs from that era), but the song gained intensity through the 70's. The 76 tour was again very impressive with Levon singing for his life. I'd call it one of the three great performances from TLW, and it was also amazing on SNL. Also at TLW, the crowd buildup in the descending section before the final chorus is chilling, one of the few times the audience interrupted a performance. Garth always shone in this song, especially across the third verse and final two choruses. BtF is particularly nice for Garth (overdubs and all) but there's a moment on the King Biscuit radio show where he plays a quick burst during the last chorus that sounds almost like Aaron Copland. I've always wondered who came up with the bass line. Unlike most rock tunes, the bass doesn't subscribe to the root tone but kind of walks through the chords, sometimes playing the root, sometimes the third, sometimes the fifth--especially in the chorus. The descending part is also really nice for this kind of thing. Robertson said he wrote it on the piano, but it smacks of Garth's influence, a very classical use of the bass. Levon's drum sound on the original is perfect. In the course of the OQ's career, Levon went from no ride cymbals on the chorus to ride cymbals on the chorus back to no ride cymbals on the chorus. The harmonies are exquisite, especially Richard's reach for the high "a" on the last chorus.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 22:12:23 CET 2003 from ric-sn-oprx-pxy2.firstunion.com (169.200.215.36)

Bones

Lucinda Williams will release a new one on April 8th called World Without Tears. In a recent interview she said one of the tracks ("People Talkin'") reminds her of The Band.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 22:03:25 CET 2003 from (193.203.142.76)

Hank

Subject: It's a long long way from Clare to Tennessee

Ooops!....I kinda knew I might tick off a few Civil War-heads in here........

.....and I apologise unreservedly for that......Pat Brennan and Ed Voci, in particular........you both obviously have studied the era and the events........whereas I am writing purely from the gut........dangerously wild interpretations from what little I have read and studied.....and sorta experienced ....having been born/schooled in The USA........and travelled down South........

However, not one of you disagreed that The South DID rise again and take over the world.........

Because it DID....Didn't it?........

.....and, Pat, I'm playing in Ennis a week from Friday.........playing music, which for the most part, has its rythmnic roots in The Southern States of The USA.....Rock'n'Roll.......in the county that is the home of Irish Trad.......Clare........

wassa name of that hardware store agin?

Entered at Thu Jan 30 21:55:15 CET 2003 from garco.cpe.newsouth.net (64.90.4.86)

Mike Carrico

Bill - I recall that tune; not sure what name it was relased under, but I believe that Nick Gravenites was the singer.

A bus full of merry prankster types stumbles upon the Muscogee Okie himself broke down on the highway, and magnanimously offer to assist him, demonstrating that there are no hard feelings about his hit song.

"I'll change your flat tire Merle; Don't get your clean country hands all covered with earl..."

Entered at Thu Jan 30 21:42:44 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

JTull Fan

Subject: Ed Voci

Ed, well put. As I've said before, the Band's music was not created in a vacuum. Also, what we have sometimes forgotten is that being 'political' requires us to sometimes NOT say something knee-jerk as opposed to speaking from the gut all the time. Flaming is not political; it is fighting.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 21:22:02 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ed Voci

Subject: Peter Viney, Civil War discussion, "political" posts

I'm lost on what's "political". If a discussion about the Civil War derived from the lyrics and musical voice of TNTDODD is "political" and not permitted, the scope of this GB will be greatly and borishly limited. How could anyone talk about Acadian Driftwood without quickly wanting to know or say something about British and French colonialism in Canada? If someone wanted to talk about RR's song "Showdown at Big Sky" which was about nuclear war, what is anyone allowed to talk about? Or what about RR's focus in the '90's on Native American music and his support for Leonard Pelletier? Is Wounded Knee off limits? Was Hank's righteous comment that Native Americans were screwed a "political" comment and therefore out of line? Hank also talked about how the turmoil that occurred in the South after the Civil War developed rock & roll. Is that "political" or "musical"? Though he and I have different versions of the turmoil, so what? Isn't disagreement healthy and clarifying? Didn't the barman say that "strong opinions" are welcome? I thought the barman's knuckle raps were more directed toward the personal attacks, ethnic slurs, and what, I think, is called, "flaming" (loss of temper, name calling, etc.) than toward, as Pat Brennan called them, "deep" discussions about The Band and its music. This is a slippery slope on which you are treading. It is best left to the reader to either scroll on by or read on through.

edwardvoci@aol.com

Entered at Thu Jan 30 21:06:53 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Entered at Thu Jan 30 20:57:58 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Ed: Wonderful, i dont believe it from a The Band fan. I give you the time to listen to MY album, and we will open a new project. Like anyone here in I have my dreams and my fantaisies too. I show you a clue: Levon is in the project, i am not profanating the Holly Garden.

Thanks Lars for your comment about Levon.
By repeating all the time that, for me, TNTDODD sumarizes in Levon chopping wood, that sentence finally got a rational meaning.
Why Levon and not Virgil ? the response can be found in the last post of Mr Lars.
The following idea now seriously needs a help from some English literacy specialist.
In my manner, i can expose it by my belief that the action of "Chopping Wood" is the most concrete in the lyrics (present narrative). The first vesre telling about Virgil working in the Danville train (despite of all the historical signification) is in the past narrative. Thus in the psychic of the listener, the transposition of the past at the moment when he is listenning follows the same loose of concreteness of the narrator himself. The last verse which sumarizes in a promise transposed in the future narrative following a painful recall is more receptible.
To be complete with this approach, we must talk about the people singing and the bells ringing. Now this is an unpersonal action,which appears in the song like the "Chorypheos" in the Greek tragedy, or the bacground in a portayal picture. Thus it is lifted at a much lower importance for someone unfamiliar with the Historical context.

David Powell: thanks for all what you are doing. You are saving me from the Sergio Leone image whose i am prisoner. Peter: Modesty. Read above, this very post will be another occasion to get some help from you. And the cause it is noble and the cause it is right.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 20:28:51 CET 2003 from du-tele3-077.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.77)

Peter Viney

Conny Kramer: Not my translation – I was only the intermediary to someone who could translate it for us. At least it avoids the mud / blood / Robert E. Lee problem! BTW, the translator knew the original and described it as mind numbingly awful.

The Civil War is probably on people’s minds, maybe subliminally, because of the world situation. Film historians are fond of quoting how “Gone with the Wind” was thought to have delayed America’s entry into WW2 because it personalized the horrors of war. I guess from the British point of view that was an undesirable result. In its historical context there is an aspect to Dixie which personalized war at the height of the Vietnam conflict. BUT let this not lead to more political posts, because since our barman rapped the counter and brought us to order, this GB has remained far closer to Band lyrics and music. It’s been a busy and productive couple of weeks. As this is a site in words, it’s often easier to discuss lyrics than music – though Lars does a particularly fine job on the music today. I’m up for a discussion on Acadian Driftwood – I probably said everything I could think of in the article on the site. In the end it’s a shade lesser a song that TNTDODD, because it was too conscious an attempt to emulate it. But even so, a great lyric, performance and piece of music. But one they found it hard to do justice to live. At least they tried, unlike ‘Daniel & The Sacred Harp’ and ‘Jupiter Hollow’ which are in my Top 10 Band songs, but as far as I know never performed (though Rick Danko would sometimes do two or three lines of Daniel between songs).

Entered at Thu Jan 30 20:20:21 CET 2003 from node14654.a2000.nl (24.132.70.84)

emanuel

I've been a great fan of this site eversince I bought my first record of the band a couple of years ago. I've allways loved to see how the members are doing (especially to see what Levon is up to as I am a drummer myself). untill today I saw the pictures as a world far from mine. if only because of the distance. that changed when I looked at a couple of pictures on garths photos list. I recognized the two young brothers who played along in Jeff Healys cafe. I remember them so well 'cause the first thing I noticed when I saw the bassplayer play was that he played bass just like (early) Rick did, technique and movements. I played along with them on drums in a small blues bar in downtown amsterdam called Maloe Melo (Jeff visited this place too a couple of times) nice to see that the brothers are doing well. maybe see you some other time again. emanuel

Entered at Thu Jan 30 19:57:19 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ed Voci

Subject: Hank, Pat Brennan, David Powell, the fango front

"There's no doubt, however, that after Lincoln was assassinated....the people of what was The Confederacy were screwed over BIG time........rich or poor, black or white, slave or free......" (Hank)

Hank: This is a gross mischaracterization of that period. The ten years of Reconstruction was a fascinating period and I recommend "Black Power USA", by Lerone Bennett, Jr. in addition to DuBois. The overthrowing of Reconstuction and its aftermath amounted to regional fascism. The KKK, thousands of public lynchings, Jim Crow, The Sovereignty Commission in Mississippi, Bull Connor and resistance to the civil rights movement, etc. are a far cry from your simplistic and very wrong formulation.

In short, the Civil war as a power struggle between two economic models between which the status of labor power was the key distinction (and for which the ruling elites on both sides were willing to spill the blood of hundreds of thousands of common people to protect and expand their respective investments). Lincoln sought to guarantee slavery in the South for the sake of "preserving the Union", a euphemism for maintaining a "great" (as in "imperial") nation which he wanted to be a dominant player in the world (i.e. compete with and surpass the European powers). The South saw that its slavery model was being contained and would one day face destruction either from competition with cheap non-slave labor or the morality of the Abolitionism, or both. White labor vieweed slavery as a competitive model that might make it, white wage-labor, redundant (which, Mike Carrico, is why ex-slaves as an influx of competing wage-workers would have mattered a great deal to Virgil particularly if had not owned slaves). The moral issue of slavery was an overlay to all of this. The two finally coincided when Lincoln turned to the Abolitionist movement and African Americans themselves (i.e. he needed more blood spilled to win the war and to disrupt slavery in the South) in 1863 and begrudingly signed the Emancipation Proclomation which freed slaves only in the South. So, I agree with Pat and Al Edge: slavery was the core issue of the era and the Civil War.

David Powell: Thanks a lot for the book tip, I had a feeling you'd know. It will have to wait until next week, cuz I bought Empty Now's favorite Kansas CD this week (along with a bunch of others, of course). Gee, maybe I'll simply go the library, just like RR and LH.

Pat: I've emailed you twice.(If edwardvoci@aol.com is still not working for you--it is working for others-- try my office at voci@earthlink.net)

Speaking of LH, I'd love to hear him pronounce "fango" and I bet no matter how hard he tried it would never come out as the proper Italian FAHN-go. He'd twang that thang from here to the fandango in Durango. :-)

Entered at Thu Jan 30 19:52:35 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Subject: The Night Conny Kramer died

Peter: I didn't add anything by finding the German version. YOU added something worthy when translating it in English. The page in this site (see the link please) needs your text. You ought to submit it to Jan

Entered at Thu Jan 30 19:33:19 CET 2003 from stjhts25d056.nbnet.nb.ca (142.166.249.185)

WS Walcott

What is this, a history web page? Why is everyone so obsessed with the Civil War? Why are there so many civil war buffs? Why would anybody want to be any kind of war buff at all? Kind of a strange hobby to have, celebrating war. Lets get back to the music.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 19:06:40 CET 2003 from (64.208.177.9)

Lars

Subject: The Romance of the Lost Cause

Since this thread is not going away, I might as well contribute something ("If you can't beat them, join them").

I am an avid Civil War buff, I belong to a local Civil War Round Table. I stop short of getting into re-enactments because I refuse to have anyone point a weapon (even with only a primer loaded on action) at me. I named my youngest child after John Pelham (1838-1863) and every July 3rd I find a hayfield similar to the Gettysburg field where Pettigrew and Pickett's men charged, and I think of those poor Virginians/ North Carolinaians (and others) who walked into that deathtrap. I think of Alonzo Cushing firing his last cannon shot as the remnants of the Confederate charge overran his position. He'd been wounded three times and was dying when he put his bare thumb over the cannon vent, burning the flesh off his thumb as his other hand kept his entrails from falling out. It was Cushing's cannon that Lo Armistead put his hand on (supposedly) just before receiving his mortal wound. A glorious day for some, probably for the people who weren't there.

The Civil War was fought with outdated tactics and modern (for that time) weaponry. It was brought about by politics and the belief (by most people) that the other side was not actually going to fight over the concept of states rights. Lincoln put a spin on the Union cause after Antietam when he freed the Confederacy's slaves. But the end result was that the common soldier suffered greatly and died without ever seeing glory. Maybe it's a good thing so many posts in here are about the Civil War, because we are on the brink of another war. War is not glorious.

But I thought this was the Band music site. It's true that no one can tell us what to talk about, this is an open forum. It's just that once in a while I miss hearing about the Band. Levon's "presence" when he sang TNTDODD at TLW, he looked like he was going to pop through his blue shirt as he gave that superb performance. Rick's endearing ways on stage as he seemed to love everyone in the audience (except the sound man, who he kept an eye on at all times. Rick's ear was so finely tuned that after a song you might hear him say to the guy in the back, on the board, "You moved it again, didn't you?"

I think of the times I watched the original Crowmatix and I always stood in front of Jimmy Eppard and watched in amazement as he played his guitar. I think of Little Elmo keeping the beat on his base, his feet bandaged and barely able to walk...and he'd pound his foot until the bandages started to unwind. I always enjoyed (and still do) the energy Miss Marie put into her performances. I always thought she was often not given enough credit. I get a kick out of hearing how the boys would try to lure Levon into his studio to help out with a Band song....and Levon not even looking back as he walked over to the house. Or how Garth will NOT talk about Bob Dylan, his respect is too deep. Or watching Jim Weider's face as he performed a difficult solo. Then watching his face change as his boyish grin showed a bit of mischief in it. I think Jim really does love what he does. There's a lot to see at the various shows performed by the JWB, The Barnburner's, the Crowmatix, and Eppard's "Retro Rockets." I think March 8th's Garth and Maude Hudson show will probably be very special. We in the Northeast are blessed to have so many talented musicians.And I think this guestbook is lucky to have a direct link to these musicians when Butch posts. He's the "real deal" who knows A LOT, and let's out his little pearls, a little bit at a time. He could write one HELLUVA book, but he'll never tell that much because he's not only Levon's friend, but confidant. He's loyal to Levon even when Levon puts a nice, fragrant burger under his nose and says, "You want some?"....knowing full well that Butch's medical condition forbids him from eating any animal protein. Butch sticks with his salad.

There's a lot going on out there, and I am not even close to most of these people. Just think of the stories Serge could tell....or someone who actually is friends with these guys (like "Bones" or some others who post in here). I'd love to hear Rick's cousin open up and give us a glimpse of how it was to be around these guys.

Maybe someday these people will tell us about what they experienced with the boys in The Band. Until then, I guess we've still got our threads to keep it going.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 19:03:48 CET 2003 from cdm-66-255-149-tyrd.cox-internet.com (66.76.255.149)

BANDfan

well folks it seems someone else is posting under my name so i'll be posting under the name OZZMAN from now on.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 18:58:12 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Spinning another thread here: While "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" paid homage to Levon's Southern ancestry, Robbie Robertson mined another historical vein in "Acadian Driftwood". The latter song perhaps can be viewed at as a tribute to his wife's French-Canadian background. As "TNTDODD" was set against the backdrop of the United States Civil War & its aftermath, "Acadian Driftwood" delves into the strife between the British & French settlers in Canada.

Although both songs deal with events of the past, the bad blood at the heart of both historical situations still runs hot in the present day. Both songs can be considered companion pieces as examples of Robertson's cinematic approach to the art of songwriting.

On a certain levels, both songs interweave history with Robertson's own personal development, as would his later works examining the plight of Native Americans. Like a cinematic lens, Robertson's artistic vision can be seen panning across a wide scale of events and then focusing in tight close-ups of individual stories.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 18:56:58 CET 2003 from (207.164.242.2)

Mike B

Great resource, people. I ain't no Levon, but Ronnie and my mandolin shared the same stage. Great memories. 'Stage Fright' says it all.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 18:40:21 CET 2003 from du-tele3-178.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.178)

Peter Viney

Well, I asked a friend, and here is a translation of the lyrics of the "German TNTDODD"- it was not only a hit but much reproduced in German teen mags of the early 70s, invariably credited to Joan Baez.

We lay dreaming in the grass
Our heads full of crazy ideas
And just for fun he said
C'mon, let's go for a ride
But the smoke tasted bitter
Still, Conny told me what he saw
A sea of lights and colours
We had no idea
What soon would come to pass

The day when Conny Kramer died
All the bells were ringing
The day when Conny Kramer died
All his friends wept for him
It was a hard day
Because a world inside me fell apart

He often promised that he'd leave it alone
That gave me fresh courage
And I persuaded myself
That, with love, everything would be fine
But the joints became trips
There was no stopping the downhill slide
People started talking
But nobody offered Conny help

The day when Conny Kramer died, etc.

The last time he said
Now I can see heaven
I screamed at him, oh come back
He could no longer understand me
I didn't even have any more tears
I had lost everything I had
Life simply goes on
All that's left me
Are the flowers on his grave

Entered at Thu Jan 30 18:07:29 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

MattK

I've not read it, but I understand "Secessionville: Assault on Charleston" is an excellent tome. The author is a real bastard, though... ; - )

Entered at Thu Jan 30 17:27:57 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

JTull Fan

Subject: Dave Powell

An excellent book, Dave!

Entered at Thu Jan 30 16:51:46 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Subject: Battle of Antietam

Following Ed Voci's query regarding a Civil War book that focuses on the carnage of that war -- I recommend "Landscape Turned Red: The Battle of Antietam" by Stephen W. Sears. This book is an in-depth look at the Battle of Antietam Creek at Sharpsburg, Maryland, Sept. 16-18, 1862. In Robert E. Lee's first attempt at invading the North, the Army of Northern Virginia faced Union troops led by Maj. Gen. George B. McClellan in one of the most intense battles of the Civil War. The fighting on Sept. 17, 1862 resulted in the bloodiest day on American soil in history with casualties of 12,410 on the Union side and 10,700 for the Confederates. It was a painful reminder of the futility of war, for although the Union achieved somewhat of a stragetic edge, neither side was really victorious in light of the huge losses suffered.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 16:47:55 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Entered at Thu Jan 30 16:40:32 CET 2003 from h-68-164-11-194.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.11.194)

Pat Brennan

Have you stopped in the hardware store in Ennis lately?

Entered at Thu Jan 30 15:22:50 CET 2003 from tnt-77-120.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.120)

Tracy

Bandfan- That comes from the soundtrack to "Any Given Sunday" Volume 2. It is indeed Robbie playing, "Amazing Grace." It's a wonderful version IMHO. Not because it's Robbie but it's just so rich in that seering guitar that I love hearing so much. Jeff Beck did a version on "Merry Axemas" but it sounds too rushed. You should take a listen to the instrumental version of "Out Of The Blue" from the same soundtrack. Beautiful work.

Tracy

Entered at Thu Jan 30 14:11:01 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Everybody remember a few months ago, we discussed the reenactment. I then said that in my conscious memory, the most evokative images of Civil War remain from "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly". The GB being our only chance to be ourselves and subsequently to my own talk, i come back to that context. More exactly, I see the image of the young dying soldier whom Eastwood gived a cigarette, followed by that wonderful music of Morriconne. I'll never forget the visage expression of the soldier, when all the causes are missed and only remain the body suffering and the expectation of death. I swear by the fango under my feet that i dont remember if he were gray or blue, i only see the almost lived expressive reality of his human visage.
Viewed from exterior far, that's all what the significant of Civil War is.
Listenning to TNTDODD, I only see Levon chopping wood. It's still of actuality, it is sufficient for the exegesis of the TNTDODD to continue, and the more interesting when it is done from a wide range of cultural backgrounds.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 12:40:59 CET 2003 from pcp01420654pcs.lndsd101.pa.comcast.net (68.81.34.77)

carmen

Subject: Levon in Philly

Butch, lets make the Philly thing happen!

Entered at Thu Jan 30 12:08:29 CET 2003 from (193.203.142.132)

Hank

Subject: The Day the South Rose Again

Tanya Yucker recorded "Dixie"?........Wow!......Did Glen Campbell produce it or wha?....

Ben Pike: The Civil War WAS about economics........and political independence........The enslavement of generations of Africans was just the divisive issue to spark it off......in the 1790ies, some place like Vermont or Maine tried to leave the Union.....over Liquor laws......it was a rebellion against The Union.........

Back then, The USA was not this Huge Homegenous Oneness that spread across the continent.....like it is (just about) today......with baseball, hot dogs, Oprah, Rap Music, MTV and Grateful Dead-Heads in each and every state......it was a wild and untamed wilderness and the individual states felt and acted very independent of each other........Texas was a republic on it's own not too long before The Civil War. (To be a republic was the main political idea in those days.....stake out a piece of this rich land, defend it, harness it's resources and have yerself a reee-public.....having slaves was handy for that purpose.......and looky here.....there's slaves in that darned bible....preacher told me so.........)

Since The Civil War and the rapid expansion that followed it, the USA has grown into a nation..........a great nation...... the like of which the world had never seen before......THAT was Abe Lincolns great achievement.....to have the vision that the country would expand, strengthen and solidify as a UNITED Federal Union.......with ALL the peoples living within it and emigrating to it being able to partake in the vast richness of the land.......whether they be African, Asian, Baptist, Catholic or Jew........to be free....... to harness the strength that lay within the land.........which they did....and continue to do so......(except the natives....who got screwed.....no matter what way you look at it......and a great price will have to paid for doing that to those people.....pray that it's not coming down since Sept. 11th, 2001 ).

Lincoln knew.....or, at least, the people he was working for, knew, that if the states starting splitting up.....the continent would be prone to invasion by foreign powers and the whole idea of a United States would have been lost.........

The great thing that Lincoln did was to keep the "united" in The United States of America......Don't forget......The Southern States that went on to form The Confederacy left The Union... one by one!......not en masse......it was The War of Secession at first......and how long would have The Confederacy lasted if they defeated The Union in the early days of that war?....probably not very long.......no doubt they woulda argued about local liquor laws and religious practices before long........there's no way the Confederacy was gonna turn into a nation......THAT woulda defeated the whole purpose of leaving The Union in the first place........no, you can look to The Revolutionary War and George Washington and all that, but The United States of America, as we've come to know it, was born during The Civil War.......

There's no doubt, however, that after Lincoln was assassinated....the people of what was The Confederacy were screwed over BIG time........rich or poor, black or white, slave or free.........but then again, as I always maintain......these ex-rebels and these ex-slaves, together, in their misery, invented Rock'n'Roll between themselves and went out and conquered The World......The South Rose Again...... Elvis and Chuck led the charge........Levon Helm was the drummer-boy..........

I'd better stop writing now.....'cos........y'know.....I tend to get carried away here..........

Entered at Thu Jan 30 11:12:07 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

By searching for possible translations, i am essentially attempting to proof that the only respectable one must be in Italian language. Thanks Ed for reminding me the "singability"

Entered at Thu Jan 30 10:53:39 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Subject: Better shut my mouth

Peter, MattK: Thanks for the feedback. I found that The German version was already in THIS web-site (check the link) with all the infomations ( it doesn't concern the civil war). My last post didn't add anything.
Can someone give indications about some existing translations, the research i'm currently doing is a hard work.
Once again, we must admit that the site of Jan is actually rich in informations.

Ed: Progressively the opera takes form, i felt that the posted Italian version needs an improvement....Always waiting for your critic about MY song....If you disliked the song, i'm not gonna change my name....can you imagine me called Sgt Pepper ?.....

How must we behave in face of a celebrity, we the anonymous folks. The recent stuff reminded me that the worst situation is when you dont recognize the star. I lived this experience by the past with a footballer, he was really offensed. Following a sympathetic beginning of discussion, i commited the crime of asking him "Sir, may you introduce yourself please"....

Entered at Thu Jan 30 08:33:43 CET 2003 from akcf1-ggi.xtra.co.nz (203.96.111.237)

Tom

Subject: This great web site

Great web site with lots of info.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 07:38:42 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

BANDFAN

WHEN DOING A SEARCH ON WINMX FOR RR I FOUND A MP3 DOWNLOAD UNDER HIS NAME FOR "AMAZING GRACE". DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THIS IS. IT IS AN INSTRUMENTAL VERSION ON GUITAR. FROM THE WAY IT SOUNDS IT COULD CERTAINLY BE HIM. THANKS, KEVIN

Entered at Thu Jan 30 03:25:17 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ben Pike

Al, I gotta think you're wrong. I've defended Robertson against Helm in no uncertain terms in this GB lots of times and never got banned. I think Levon has harmed mostly himself over the years by the same elements that cause toothless wonders to wave around the confederate flag and blather on that the civil war was about "economics".

It's wounded, mule stubborn southern pride. If you're from the south or given to acessive pathos, it's nobel. Otherwise it's as pathetic as ten fools running into a cannon. Or it could be, given the African/American slave trade "There are some crimes too terrible for remorse." Sure, the North was guilty too, all the more reason for the South to grow up and admit their sins. I've also, by the way, exchanged words with Amanda, and I've always found her to disagree with a lot of class. But then sometimes I get the people here mixed up!

PV, you're explanation is well and good, it's just that third song on "The Band" album where the guy, clear as bell, sings "The Robert E. Lee..." Another explanation? the Lee was thrown in because the metor doesn't quite fit perfectly without it... and it is a perfect record. An inadverted sop to even sylables that somehow become the stuff of steamboats.... Roz, come home honey....

Entered at Thu Jan 30 03:07:40 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

bob wigo

Thanks for the good news Butch. I'll be anxiously awaiting confirmation. There will be a good crew coming along this time around.

Spring is right around the corner.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 02:18:41 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

butch

April 18th ( unconfirmed today,,,,,,, confirmed tomorrow )

Levon & The Barn Burners in PHILLY,,,,,,

Wigo,, stay tuned,,,,,,,,

Entered at Thu Jan 30 01:41:34 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

bob wigo

Bill, there are a couple of popular explanations for the word "Dixie". Some claim it is derived from "Dixon" as it represented the states south of the Mason/Dixon Line. Others believe it may derive from the French word "dix" (ten) which appeared on some paper currencies in the South.

These are the two explanations I have most often heard. There certainly may be others.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 00:41:24 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Come to think of it, where did the word "Dixie" come from, and does it have a meaning (aside from specific states in the southern US)? I spent my first 18 years in a house at the corner of one of the two Dixie Roads on either side of the city of Toronto proper. Both are arrow-straight north-south roads in the grids laid out by military surveyors around 1800, though neither would have been anything more glamorous than Sideroad 18 (or whatever) until the 20th century. I don't see why the municipalities (Mississauga and Pickering) would have named them after the southern states, but can't think of anything else - unless there was something like a WW2 (or WW1 even) battleship of that name. The next town over from Pickering, Ajax, was indeed named after a warship.

Entered at Thu Jan 30 00:32:20 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

MattK

For giggles, I dropped the lyrics to Dixie into babelfish and translated them to German, and then from that German text, translated it BACK to English. The results are kind of amusing...

Virgil Caine is the name, and I served on the Danville course
Unil Stonemans came Kavallerie the rails again above violently tear up.
In the winter of ' 65, we were hungry, straight hardly alive.
Until May had tenth, Richmond fell, it is to a time, which I remind, Oh so me well

Which drove night it old Dixie down, and the bells were bells, which and which to night
which they drove old Dixie down, people sang. They went seeing
La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La

Back with my wife into threshing floor lake
when one day designated them to me
"Virgil, fast, come, go there to Robert E. Lee!"
Now do not care me I to chop wood, and I am not interested, if the money is not good.
They take, which your necessity and your vacation the remainder
but it should have taken the very never best.

Which drove night it old Dixie down, and the bells were bells, which and which to night
which they drove old Dixie down, people sang. They went seeing
La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La

Like my father before me, work on I the country
how my brother over me, who took a rebellious location.
It was proud and courageous straight eighteen
but a Yankee put it in its grave
Iswear I by the mud underneath my feet, you can not a Caine support raise, if he is in the defeat.

Which drove night it old Dixie down, and the bells were bells, which and which to night
which they drove old Dixie down, people sang. They went seeing
La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La

Entered at Thu Jan 30 00:15:46 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

MattK

David Powell's post on the pre-civil war slavery compromises is well timed. 153 years ago today, Henry Clay introduced the "Compromise of 1850," which set the boundaries of Texas, admitted California as a free state, and established the territories of NM, AZ, UT and NV with no mention of the legality of slavery in those states, and banned slavery in the District of Columbia.

In order to pacify the Southern slave-holding states, the Fugitive Slave Act (essentially requiring the extradition of escaped slaves back to their "owners" and making it a penalty to aid and abet escaped slaves nationwide).

Today is also the 142nd anniversary of Kansas statehood. Kansas, of course, was the scene of some horrific internecine warfare between abolitionists and pro-slavery advocates in the years just prior to the start of the Civil War.

Both events are significant to Civil War history. The Compromise of 1850 really represents the breaking point where the slavery issue could be kept from boiling over via legislative compromise. It's the second leg (after the Missouri Compromise and the Kansas-Nebraska Act) of a journey that began as early as the Constitutional Convention in 1787 that leads to the political stalemate which led to war.

The third and final leg was the Kansas-Nebraska act, which repealed the Missouri Compromise of 1820 that had established the Mason-Dixon line as the border between future slave states and future free states. The compromise set forth Stephen A. Douglas' (of Lincoln-Douglas debate fame) concept of popular sovereignty, whereby Southern States formalized the industry of slavery as a "states rights" issue, linking it back to the same arguments the Southern states made in 1787.

"Popular Sovereignty," as put forth in the Kansas-Nebraska meant that each new proposed state would be allowed to vote on their own as to whether they should be "slave or free." This change was significant as the US had maintained a delicate equality of 1/2 slave and 1/2 free.

In Kansas, this led directly to a migration of abolitionists into the state in an effort to push Kansas' vote to the 'free' column. This led pro-slavery forces (called "bushwackers," under William Quantrill) in the neighboring Missouri, a slave state) to raid camps of squatting abolitionists. In retaliation, violent abolitionists (called jayhawkers) led by John Brown (later of Harpers Ferry fame) to raid into Missouri and return the favor.

Kansas' statehood in the early part of the Civil War puts an interesting punctuation on "bloody Kansas" (though Quantrill continued to plague Eastern Kansas in the first half of the Civil War, including a bloody raid on Lawrence, resulting in the massacre of 187 civilians by Quantrill's men).

There were horrific atrocities on all sides, and "bloody kansas" marks a milestone in the sectionalist conflict. It set the stakes where the slavery issue seemed on an inevitable course towards a violent resolution.

Anyway, given the Civil War discussion of late, I thought it was an interesting bit of synchronicity that Jan. 29th 1854 and Jan. 29th 1861 were important dates that frame those final years as slavery moved from a moral and political crisis, to one of life, death, and the survival of the US as we know it today.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 23:49:37 CET 2003 from du-tele3-099.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.99)

Peter Viney

I don't know German at all, but sheer guesswork tells me this is not a "direct translation' by any means. Am checking it out!

Entered at Wed Jan 29 23:31:10 CET 2003 from (64.208.176.141)

Lars

Subject: Summary

Just for the benefit of any former gb'er who hasn't checked out this site in a while, please allow me to encapsulate what has gone down in the last couple of years in here.

We've had a civil war with our main character Virgil Caine taking a rest on his woodpile, trying to eat some pizza in peace. His wife has been in the cabin and smoking pot until she swears she can see Robert E. Lee. Virgil looks over, but can't see anything. When he looks back he sees a fly on his pizza, it's unclear if he catches it with a swipe of his hand. Disgusted, he flings the pizza into the mud. An unruly duck runs away with it. Virgil walks slowly back to the cabin for some flapjacks as the war continues into it's fourth year.

Sometimes we talk about the Band, too.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 23:07:03 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ed Voci (no autographs, please)

Subject: I swear by the fango below my feet; David Powell; Mike Caricco

“Antico” is a slightly better Italian word for “old” than is “vecchio” in TNTDODD. “Antico” [AHN-teekoh] means old and established whereas “vecchio” [VAY-keeoh] is used when speaking about old in units of time. For example, “Antico” is used in a phrase meaning “olden times”; “vecchio” when describing an “old man”. “mud” in Italian is the fantastic word “fango” [FAHN-go] which, in addition to being more accurate, sounds a lot better than “sangue” [SAHN-gway]. So, the line would read: “E lo guiro suqesto fango qui sotto ai miei piedi”. [AY LOH GWEE-roh sue-QUAY-stoh FAHN-goh KWEE SOH-toh EYE mee-AY-ee pee-AY-dee]

David Powell: The vast quantity of Civil War books is part of the problem. I was hoping there were a few which focused hard and in detail on the carnage, destruction, devastation, etc. and that you had one or two at your finger tips.

Mike Caricco: Thanks for responding. Right, we disagree big time. But, I won't throw no fango atcha. Loved your pun ("Caine't stop...). Now, about that phrase, "my bag is sinking low" in The Weight.... Basta. Arrivederci edwardvoci@aol.com

Entered at Wed Jan 29 23:05:20 CET 2003 from 24-197-165-58.charterga.net (24.197.165.58)

Don Pugatch

Subject: In the Company of Hero's

Looking back at the Picture section, reminded me of the wonderful experience I have had meeting both Rick and Levon, and of course Butch. No words can ever describe the feeling one gets when such genuine kindness is felt thru one's smile. Thanks guys !!!

Entered at Wed Jan 29 22:58:29 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

John W.

Super Bowl III - New York Jets, biggest upset in Super Bowl History. Hopefully they win next year!

Entered at Wed Jan 29 22:31:48 CET 2003 from pub26.lrc.swt.edu (147.26.108.140)

Pehr

Peter V and WS Walcott:

Details, details. I first saw mention of the RR champagne story in the piece on his 1st solo record in MUSICIAN magazine.

WS Walcott: I believe i said 1st super bowl was 1966, being '66 season, played in january of '67. '66 being the year of the Dylan /Hawks tour. I know, im boring ;)

By '74 being the "first" I meant first Steeler Super bowl of their run. '74 of course was the '74 Dylan/Band tour. sorry If I was unclear. (Thanks for listening and responding! and wasn't "Shania" Awful? - arrgghh a music war)

Entered at Wed Jan 29 21:52:48 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Subject: Virgil Caine in the World

And here is The German version!

Thanks Bassmanlee for learning us to not abuse of the GB by posting lyrics.

See the link Everybody please

The German title is "Am Tag als Conny Cramer starb" sung by Juliane Werding (???)

Please dont ask about the "THE", the "mud-blood",....even the name of Virgil Caine is changed, it is perhaps an adapted version

It has the merit of existing

comming soon....

Entered at Wed Jan 29 21:00:32 CET 2003 from h-68-164-14-11.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.14.11)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Wed Jan 29 20:54:23 CET 2003 from wcs1-pent-2.nipr.mil (206.38.114.99)

Nick

I saw the Band do a great show at the Lincoln Theatre in Washington D.C. in '96. Fantastic show. Afterwards I went out to where the buses were and I gave my concert shirt to Butch who brought it on the bus and returned it back to me signed by everyone except Richard Bell. I caught him outside and he signed the back while I was wearing it. Definitely the most fan friendly group for me. I sure miss seeing those guys. Personally speaking, if I had to chose any concert in the world to go to I'd pick them every time.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 20:50:07 CET 2003 from ric-sn-oprx-pxy2.firstunion.com (169.200.215.36)

Bones

Entered at Wed Jan 29 20:37:35 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Subject: Dixie

At the outset of the Civil War it is important to remember that slavery was a divisive issue, not only as to it applied to the Southern states, but also as to whether the practice would be extended to the Southwestern territories acquired during the Mexican War. Students of U.S. history no doubt will recall how the Missouri Compromise and the Supreme Court's Dred Scott decision attempted to deal with this issue.

At this turning point in the history of the United States, as the country expanded westward at its southern border, the issue of slavery was a moral issue as well as an important factor in the balance of political power between the Northern and Southern states.

Ed Voci: There are so many good books on the Civil War. I'm currently re-reading parts of Shelby Foote's 3-volume set. It's a highly-readable blend of the strategical military perspective with the concurrent historical background.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 20:26:53 CET 2003 from du-tele3-029.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.29)

Peter Viney

Think we did autograph incidents before because I’m sure I told this story, but it was probably 1996 so what the hell (apologies if it was last week)… British comedian (and one-time singer) Jasper Carrott is someone I’ve mentioned before. He’s famous for his strong Birmingham accent on stage. Anyway, one Saturday night I was at the Holiday Inn in Swiss Cottage with my kids in the coffee shop. He came in and sat at the very next table. We left him be- he would have just finished his TV show. The waitress was Thai, didn’t speak much English, and he ordered his meal in standard Southern English- no accent. Then he took out a highlighter and the Woody Allen Joke Book and started marking it- he must have felt relaxed and private to do so publicly and I resolved to leave him be (though I am a fan of his work). So his meal arrived and just as he plunged his fork in, a kid arrived obviously sent by her parents, bearing an autograph book and a pen. The man was kindness itself, joked with her and signed his name- and of course immediately reverted to the strong stage Birmingham accent. When the Thai waitress brought his check, he went back into standard English. By the way this is not being fake- it’s having excellent communication skills!

A similar British accent story – which Al might confirm – concerns Cilla Black. After she took a few years off to have kids (in the South), she supposedly had speech lessons so as to regain her Liverpool accent before returning to TV. This is why her accent now sounds ‘over the top’ I guess. McCartney is another who exaggerates it – he tends to go in and out of it in some interviews. Accents shift – note Ben’s report on Paul Simon’s British inflection in 1967 (it’s noticeable on Live in NYC too). My son lives in the USA, where everyone thinks he sounds very English. Last time he came home he was twice mistaken for an American, to his huge surprise.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 20:13:44 CET 2003 from dialup028-b.ts551.cwt.esat.net (193.203.141.28)

Hank

Subject: SOOOOOOO Much Cavalry.....

Al Edge.....alright there, la? Lurk away for awhile there, boyo, and don't let 'em grind ya down.....

dat's what I do.....don't tell anyone........

OK.....just to take a left turn on this Dixie Thread..........

Which is worse: Joan Baez' version of "Dixie"..... or John Denvers?....

I've never actually heard Denvers version........is the arrangement like Joanies or wha?

Entered at Wed Jan 29 20:10:33 CET 2003 from jcsnwyqcortr1-fe0-0-171.dsl.wyoming.net (216.67.188.171)

jhwygirl

Subject: autograph experiences

Here is my 'autograph experience' with The Band.

In the summer of 94 (I think) The Band came to play Big Sky. I was ecstatic, being that there are very few bands that come within a short drive (4 hours or less) of here that worthy of that drive.

Having had associations with extended family members of The Band, the show was all the more exciting. Me and my friends were front and center for the whole show, singing along, with Levon even getting up from his drums to take a baseball cap offered from one of my friends (which years later I later saw him wearing in a Band video).

After the show, a son of one of the Band members came up to our group as we rested after the show, still front and center, telling us that we were invited back stage at Levon's request. My friend, knowing I was the biggest Levon fan around, walked back with me. Me being shy, I stayed in the background as my friend was invited on the bus to sit and chat with Levon. He kept trying to wave me in, but I had gotten (almost) like one of those girls who would collapse when the saw Elvis. I clammed up. Finally, my friend came out to get me, and drag me over to meet Levon. By this time I had had very short conversations with him via telephone, but in person, it was almost too much.

Levon stepped out of the bus, and extended his hand to me, and in a very southern drawl said "I am so very pleased to meet you." I don't even remember what I said. I was dumbfounded. Pleased to meet me? He hugged me. We talked. A person or two interuppted us for autographs, of which I provided the pen for.

I never asked him for an autograph that day, as I felt that I didn't want to make him feel like he was a 'celebrity'. He had become very real to me that day.

I remember his stringed, beaded necklace.

We hung out for a while, drank a beer with Rick. They invited us on down to a local watering hole, and we promised to stop. I remember thinking, as I was sharing that beer with Rick, that I was actually sharring a beer with Rick! And there was Garth! And in the midst of these glorious, legendary musicians was me!

When we went to leave the back stage area, I remember looking at the masses that had yet to leave the concert area, and how they were just staring at us. I can tell you that I have met, literally, dozens of celebrities, many of which most would consider much more famous that Levon, but I have never been so starstruck. I remember being led away, as I was discombobulated from the whole encounter, with my friend leading me away, laughing at me, and me being led by him, laughing and crying.

I kept the pen that Levon had borrowed for quite a while, and never regretted not getting his autograph. I look at the video, with Levon wearing a green Gros Ventre River Ranch baseball cap, and that will forever remind me of that encounter

Entered at Wed Jan 29 20:08:47 CET 2003 from du-tele3-012.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.12)

Peter Viney

I agree totally. It's highly intrusive to spoil someone's meal and you deserve what you get … and what's more a fan should know the sign without asking. Robbie's is significant. A lot of us pleasant, creative, friendly, intelligent, communicative, good-looking, home-loving types share his sign.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 19:51:19 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

MattK

I agree with Peter entirely on the "champagne incident." As a rule, I don't even go near celebrities (whether they are merely locally famous or on a grander scale) when they are out and about on their own time. For kids it's certainly a different standard, but an adult should be capable of grokking when and where to leave folks alone. At a show, a promotion, between sets, even at a lecture or roundtable, it's perfectly reasonable to approach someone and ask for an autograph or just say "hi" (it's also perfectly reasonable for someone to politely refuse to sign an autograph, btw - that's why you ASK, which implies granting the request is at the discretion of the artist).

However, in an airport, in a restaurant, walking down the street or what have you, IMHO you should just leave them alone (unless of course you know them, or someone introduces you). While no one can expect you not to gawk a bit, it's a whole other thing to impose on a total stranger in a public place when they are minding their own business.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 19:37:17 CET 2003 from fry1qz.cm.chello.no (62.179.146.147)

Lois

Subject: Jeg er snill

I diddnt like this page. It was too musical.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 19:29:44 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.40)

bob wigo

"That he loved his mother."

From "Oedipus Rex"

Entered at Wed Jan 29 19:28:00 CET 2003 from gpf-t199.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.199)

sadavid

Subject: Colin Linden

Sometime Band collaborator Colin Linden won "Producer of the Year" accolades at the Maple Blues Awards held Monday in Toronto. According to the article, this is an annual triumph for Colin. Also according to the article, he has produced The Band.

☼

Entered at Wed Jan 29 19:25:06 CET 2003 from (129.237.250.26)

Ray Pence

This autographing thread is worth continuing--how about most memorable autograph experiences?

Mine would be with Ken Kesey in Boulder, Colorado in 1989. I went to a thrilling performance in which Kesey was dressed to the nines in a tuxedo and backed by an orchestra, reading a folktale of his grandmother's. After the show he signed books. I had a hardback edition of "Demon Box" and he said, we do something special for people who bring hardbound books. Then he opened the book to page 161, underlined some sentences at random (don't have the book with me or I could tell you which ones), turned back to the front and rewrote the sentences into a spontaneous poem, and signed, "To Ray."

A great guy--truly lived up to his outsized legend. Merry Pranksters helped reinvent America.

So how about it--great autograph experiences, anyone? Involving the Band or others?

Entered at Wed Jan 29 19:13:09 CET 2003 from plantlogic.com (209.195.208.11)

bassmanlee

Subject: (The) Robert E. Lee

Bear in mind I first heard "Dixie" at a fairly young age. Having never been one for overanalyzing symbolism, probably due to an 8th grade English teacher who maintained that a character's name was "Jocko" because "he's the type who would write on locker room walls" (huh?), I tend to leave the DHM (Deep Hidden Meaning) to others and take things at face value. In addition to my tongue-in-cheek last post, to whit Virgil is chopping wood just because of reduced financial circumstances, I now realize that I've always remembered "The Robert E. Lee", not, I think, because of any fondness for Joanie's version, but due to subliminal carry-over from Tom Lehrer's "I Wanna Go Back To Dixie" which is, as another of our English teachers used to say, "the color of a different horse". In Lehrer's 'Dixie' (I'll refrain from posting the lyric, lest I offend - see link above) it's clearly THE R. E. Lee, and I always pictured a train, not a steamboat. But hell, I was even younger when I first heard that little ditty.

But still in all you have to admit* that it's the mood, not the details that have made RR's 'Dixie' stand the test of time. All this dissectionis a bit like the old "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" arguments. Let's face it, when these songs came out lyrics didn't have to be too profound for us stoners to find them heeaavyy, man. Oh well, beats the flame wars.

(* paraphrased from another T.L. song...what's the next line?)

Entered at Wed Jan 29 18:05:16 CET 2003 from garco.cpe.newsouth.net (64.90.4.86)

Mike Carrico

Ed V - I appreciate your comments re "Dixie", and your points are well taken. But I think that the reason slavery is not addressed directly in the song is because it is not central to the narrator's personal tale, despite it's overwhelming importance as primary cause for the whole bloody business.

The voice of this great song is courtesy of one Virgil Caine, Civil War veteran, resident of Tennessee, married, age unknown. He has three verses with chorus, approximately three and a half minutes, to tell us about his experiences relating to the Big Fight. That's not much time, but he manages to cram in quite a bit of information. We learn about his service in the war, the death of his brother, a vision of The Great Man himself (or if you prefer, a steamboat!), and the difficult circumstances of his life upon his return home. He is relating to us what important to him about the subject. It is significant that he fails to mention slaves in particular, or slavery in general. It's just not very high on his list of reasons for fighting, nor as a consequence of losing that fight.

This is The Band's portrait of a typical southern soldier; industrious small farmer, humble but proud, courageous, loyal to his family and his "country". Someone who would resonate so well with Levon, that the words would spring from his very soul when he sang them. As Robbie said at the time, "I wrote it for him, aimed it right at him; and he says it all".

That's my take on it anyway...thanks for listening.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 17:34:25 CET 2003 from (65.88.119.254)

carmen

Subject: Dr John

Philadelphia area GB'ers, check out the Keswick web site (see my link) for a Dr John show on Feb 15th.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 15:59:52 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Emmmmm! just discovered that it is a song of Robbie, Sorry WS

Entered at Wed Jan 29 15:46:16 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Subject: WS Walcott

Ed:Thanks, I hope after listening it, you will convince some The Band member to remake it, in an album we shall give it the title "Restore The Dream"

WS Walcott: Following my last post and being jealous of Italians, I launched a hopeless search of some French or Dutch translations of TNTDODD. I found a web-page (in the link) where your name appeared in the top. I'll be glad if it does interest you.

BTW: The title of the Document "Canada is het Belgie van de States" means "Canada is the Belgium of the USA", if it is true, that's wonderful (RR and RD are approximatively Belgians, the loop is closed ).

Entered at Wed Jan 29 14:44:46 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Ed Voci

Subject: Empty Now

Sorry I disappointed you by not commenting on your name. I do not know that song by Kansas, so I was going to get it and listen to it before I opened my big mouth.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 13:35:46 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

What's wrong with my screen today ?.......it is over-shining, did someone over-tuned the Light Intensity button behind me?...... No!.....Brown Eyed Girl is here.

Fred: Thanks for pointing out the presence of the blood version in the Italian translation I posted. Excuse me to disagree with your comment about English listennig in Italia, my own experience is something different. Everything is relative, relativeley to non-English European countries, nowhere else i found an equal receptivity of American cultural products. The cinema (Movies, Actors and Directors are much more known in Italia than elsewhere in Europe), also many kind of Anglo-Saxon music styles are enjoyed. And I talk about the wide majority of public, not essentialy the elit. I heard some years ago, in Venice exactly, two young ice-cream (gelato) vendors discussing in details about "Raging bull" of Scorsese, i was amazed. That's the kind of revealing clues that make the difference. Anyway.
I fear to initiate a "Mud-Blood" debate from the Italian version, I believe that this version must be seen in a more constructive way
I realized after discovering this version that, if only one official translation of TNTDODD should exist, it must be in Italian (this is perhaps the consequence of some Sergio Leone and Ennio Morricone influence), and, by the way, i dont know if another official version exists in any alterate language at the present time.
Let's remember that the prime idea started from the composition of an opera.I am not a well of culture but sincerly, i never imagined an opera in an other language but Italian.
Finally i owed some present to our friend Ed.
Thank you again Fred

Ed: I'm a little disapointed of the absence of comment in your later post about the song identified with my name. How can a man become one song..
I make the difference in the GB between suggesting music, and imposing my own tastes. Thus I will be brief.
The song "Nobody's Home" in Kansas album "Point of know return" (1976 remastered 2002) is a Shakespearean texn on a Shubertian music composed by a Rock Band. This is really something different. I stop here, because I got the ability of starting an endless talk-:)

Rollie: I WAS in TLW too, in the dark side of the screen.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 10:26:18 CET 2003 from 107.ppp135.rsd.worldonline.se (213.204.135.107)

Woodlark

Subject: GB, Polar Music Prize

DAVE Z: I feel the same way about gb.
A short notice from Sweden: This year's Polar Music Prize goes to KEITH JARRETT.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 06:19:15 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Dave Z

I've enjoyed the posts related to the Dixie dialogue myself... and my hat is off to those doing the searching and probing... and to the fun you are having... I myself keep coming back to this GB because I like the people here... I only leave when I get tired of reading my own posts... and besides, the music old & especially new still inspires me, and helps to heal my restless spirit at times... plus this place kind of serves as a nice jumping off spot for me to pursue various adventures... whether it's new books, CDs or roadtrips... so my prayer is that all the musicians who soooo entertain us, please may they continue to find peace and prosperity... and healthy challenges of give and take in what they do... enough at least to keep them doing what seems like to me they must love... anyway, tonight I feel real thankful for this resting spot... even though at any moment... something can erupt and hurt... kinda like life... I've also loved reading lately how the musical family has been doing benefits for their own... like for Hubert... that's inspiring too... ga-nite... good bless...

Entered at Wed Jan 29 06:14:28 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3613006.sympatico.ca (65.93.194.119)

brown eyed girl

Of course Robbie wanted only champagne.....All Canadians only drink the champagne of gingerales......CANADA DRY

At the Dana Glover Event Robbie quietly was signing anything anyone wanted while Dana was signing her CDS.....I only brought my photos to show Robbie and I asked him to sign the photo I took of his former home in RIVERDALE, TORONTO where I placed a photo of himself from CARNY.....Robbie was promoting Dana that night....not his own music......So yes.....he does give free autographs...and photos......He was very friendly and talkative......but I kept looking at his hands.......well.....most of the time......

Bill....I saw Rough Trade at Convocation Hall once.....I wonder if Michael Fonfara was playing then.....and Eugene Smith.....yes I remember......Hotel California.....in Toronto.....I bet we were at the same shows......and.....Downchild Blues Band.....the sax player was my fave......He really knew how to get into the groove......

I was viewing the Woody Guthrie Tribute.....Robbie narrates.....Woody Guthrie......"This machine kills fascists".....Woody's guitar.....

In honour of Louuuu's RAVEN out today.....

But remember that the city is a funny place
Something like a circus or a sewer
And just remember different people have peculiar tastes
And the glory of love
The glory of love
The glory of love
Might see you through

Entered at Wed Jan 29 06:10:26 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Fred

Al Edge: Darn! You reappeared in the GB before I could get my "Come back Shane" moment going. Chalk it up to time spent reading your next-to-last post of near biblical proportions!! (when's the director's cut DVD coming out?)

Scrolled back again to reread the Italian lyrics to "Dixie" posted by Empty Now. I noticed how the Italian version has sangue (blood) instead of fango (mud). I still think it's MUD, regardless of the Italian...that's because Italians are poor listeners of English!! (experience has taught me this)

Entered at Wed Jan 29 05:41:11 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Ed Voci

Subject: Al Edge, Nancy, David Powell, The Gourds

Al Edge:

The TNTDODD thread actually started with Rollie who noted the birday of Gen. Lee on January 19th. That prompted me to visit the link Rollie posted to the Gen. Lee website which reminded me that Gen. Lee had opposed slavery. I listened to the song again, reviewed the lyrics, thougth a bit, and wished I could write an opera.

Nancy:

You sound more and more like MGFN all the time.

David Powell:

Got any books to recommend relating to your comments?

Does anyone listen to The Gourds (the most significant roots music group since The Band)?

edwardvoci@aol.com

Entered at Wed Jan 29 05:24:59 CET 2003 from dialup-65.59.11.134.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.59.11.134)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Wed Jan 29 05:12:44 CET 2003 from 64-80-240-83-access.surferz.net (64.80.240.83)

muffy

IMO, there just isn't enough justice in this world. If there were, Garth Hudson would get the recognition (and renumeration) he deserves. He sure deserves a whole lot.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 04:39:47 CET 2003 from 1cust221.tnt2.hackensack.nj.da.uu.net (67.235.142.221)

Ray G

Subject: Lifeboy, thanks for the Homespun link!

Not only do they have Jims' instructional videos they have Levons' drumming video and Ricks' bass video too, cool. Think it's a toss up between Jim's Rock-a-Billy set or the Electric Blues set. I'll let you know.

Thanks again from Ray G.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 04:20:33 CET 2003 from (66.103.46.238)

Another Joe

Subject: Guestbook and Biscuit

Like a couple of other recent posters, let me say that I bookmark the Updates page instead of the Guestbook. I don't have to get bogged down in these flames. The latest must have been a doozy.

Belated condolences to all friends of Richard Newell. His 'King Biscuit Boy' was the best vinyl I've ever found in a $1.99 bargain bin. That record became a favourite of my entire apartment building one summer (same year "Desire' was hot). Got to meet him some years later. He shoulda been big time.

Belated thanks to Crabgrass for the Moondog Matinee screensaver. I had it saved in the wrong file for the longest time but discovered it last weeek. A couple of clients have already recognized it and I have actually made a Band-buddy through it.

Please don't confuse me with any other Joe out there; there's at least one other

If I thought I'd do any good...

Entered at Wed Jan 29 03:20:37 CET 2003 from (203.14.169.19)

Nancy

Entered at Wed Jan 29 03:01:33 CET 2003 from (63.194.159.54)

Joe

Subject: Homer Banks and/or James Banks

Homer Banks is one of Soul Artists listed by Peter Viney as having an influence on The Band. "All Music Guide" at allmusic.com gives a nice bio of Homer and outlines his song credits. AMG also lists a "James Banks" born on the same day as Homer (Aug 2,1941) in the same place (Memphis, TN) but with none of the same song credits. Are these guys twins, the same guy with different names or not related at all. While Homer is credited with "Aint That A Lot Of Love" on Islands, James Banks gets the credit for "Thats What Love Will Make You Do" on Jerry Garcia's albums Compliments, How Sweet It Is and Don't Let Go. It was interesting to note that, like Banks, Garth Hudson was born on Aug 2 in 1937. As some of you know, Garcia was born on Aug 1 '42. Regarding the Homer questions, someone please help me out. Thanks.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 01:24:35 CET 2003 from host217-40-193-68.in-addr.btopenworld.com (217.40.193.68)

Lifeboy

Subject: Ray G \ Jim Weider Videos

Ray, I've got one of his videos,it's pretty good and very easy to follow called "Get that Classic Fender Sound". I knew most of what he demonstrates but I still picked up some good stuff from watching it and he explains things clearly. Check out the link above, the "Electric Country Blues" tapes look as if they might be good with different stages. Let us know if you get one as I would be interested to know what they are like.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 00:52:57 CET 2003 from ns1.prenhall.com (198.4.159.5)

Ray G

Subject: Instructional Guitar Videos by Jim Weider

Just wondering if any musicians out their have any of Jim Weiders' instructional guitar videos. If so what did you think of them and where'd you find them?

Thanks from Ray G

Entered at Wed Jan 29 00:44:42 CET 2003 from 173.224.252.64.snet.net (64.252.224.173)

misty

november of 1999

Entered at Wed Jan 29 00:40:09 CET 2003 from 173.224.252.64.snet.net (64.252.224.173)

Misty McK.

Subject: The Last Waltz

I just want to comment on something funny no make that hilarious that I just watched. The Last Waltz is now on DVD, and there is a special commentary option that allows band members et al to speak during the performances. Now for the comedy...During Van the Man's performance he gets mocked for his purple jump suit. They go on and on about who drugged him and convinced him he looked good. Also thanks to Ed for that photo. I have one similar. It was taken in November of 2000 in Lexington KY at an Irish pub he was playing at. I met Rick and when we had the photo taken he told me, "let's put our heads together like the Beatles". Every time I look at that photo I smile. What a great man, he is sorely missed. BOB Wigo: I must have just missed you In Woodstock! BIG PINK! I probably passed you somewhere on Parnassus--is that possible even? oh well hello anyway. www.lilmid@yahoo.com GOD BLESS

Entered at Wed Jan 29 00:39:07 CET 2003 from on-tor-blr-a58-02-136.look.ca (216.154.6.136)

Wittgenstein

Subject: Scorcese Rider

Toronto Band fans: The Last Waltz plays at The Royal on College Street Monday Feb 3 at 7:00 and Tuesday Feb 4 at 9:10. See ya near the washroom at Neil Diamond.

It's a double bill with 'Standing in the Shadows of Motown'. Come on down!

Entered at Wed Jan 29 00:27:29 CET 2003 from stjhts22c104.nbnet.nb.ca (207.179.135.109)

WS Walcott

Subject: james gang

Didn't Tommy Bolin replace Joe Walsh in the James Gang????

Entered at Wed Jan 29 00:25:40 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Hey BWNWITtenn - jump in quick and wave to Al. Ease his pain.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 00:24:36 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-016castocp0005.dialsprint.net (63.187.160.5)

Rollie

Despite all the differences of opinion,quibbling over who's who, who did what to who,and why who did what to who and what the outcome was,how much money he made or should have made versus who made nothing at all, song writer credits, just remember one thing. I WAS at the Last Waltz, and can be heard in the background on the recording. Thank you!

Entered at Wed Jan 29 00:23:54 CET 2003 from stjhts22c104.nbnet.nb.ca (207.179.135.109)

WS Walcott13

The first Super Bowl was in 1967, not 1974.

Please, please, who gives a shit if it the Robert E. Lee was the person or the boat. I am a big Band fan, but I have never been that fond of that song. Can't we find a new thread?

I stand corrected, the real brains behind the James Gang were Jim Peters and Dale Fox.

Entered at Wed Jan 29 00:23:13 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

It's always risky meeting someone you idolize, or admire. They are human beings and have bad days too. You always see them on album covers and TV shows when they have to be "on". So if you catch them in an off moment it can destroy all your dreams of what that moment should be like. Give 'em a brake. They could have the runs or something and just not be in the mood.

My take on R.E. Lee in the song was not of a boat, but of the real guy - "there goes-a Robert E. Lee".

Entered at Tue Jan 28 23:37:53 CET 2003 from cache-ink1-kno-hsi.cableinet.co.uk (62.30.0.3)

Al Edge

So after all that effort wrestling with the vagaries and intricacies of disintegrating relationships on the GB and striving to place them in some sort of perspective, it seems that the straightforward mechanics of a lifting of a ban had evaded me.

So much for the thoroughness of my research on this matter then.

That said I'm sure everyone here will excuse me if I continue to exercise some caution and await more tangible evidence of BWNWIT's restoration to the GB before resuming my own place on the board. After all, I'd hate to be bitten twice on the same spot. That would be terminally embarrassing. Also it will give me time to stock up the fridge with some more of those edible dictionaries I'm so partial to. :-o)

Whilst here though I would just like to say that all the magnanimous comments in just 24 hours or so since the post should remind everyone - not least myself and the protaganists of this dispute - of just how fine some of the souls on this GB really are. How fortunate we all are to have found a place amidst the cold, clinicalness of cyberspace where a genuine warmth of spirit can exist. Maybe, just maybe, if there could be a wholesale recuperation from that awful recent outburst of angst against the scarred backdrop of Levon's and Robbies impasse, it might just demonstrate to those sad blokes that the way forward should surely not carry such rancour. We can all but hope, however tenuous that hope might be.

Finally - one unforgivable omission on my behalf in my BTW's at the end of that monster post. Brown Eyed Girl - how could I have omitted to include a request for you to grace this board once more with your enigmatic posts? Shows I suppose how a simple oversight could easily seem like something altogether more callous or rude. And while I'm at it - how cheering is that to see a Matt K post? :-o)

Entered at Tue Jan 28 23:34:32 CET 2003 from du-tele3-151.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.151)

Peter Viney

In general, I'm suffering from information overload (partly the result of the Unsubstantiated sessions - and I will EVENTUALLY answer everyone who's e-mailed me recently). I'm delighted to see Matt K and Tracy back on stream as the Robbie lobby was getting pretty depleted - but there is one story from Rolling Stone (or Q?) circa Storyville about RR insisting on champagne (only available by the bottle) when a fan offered 'to buy him a drink' that is on the record. It does sound like a case of an arsehole interrupting a private meal in a pricey restaurant, and so the response was justifiable … in my opinion. The point about such restaurants is people don't get hassled, which is why they eat there. But it was noted by the interviewer. But I've heard a dozen more stories about RR being pleasant to fans. I think if you were having a pleasant private conversation and some overbearing twat muscled in and said "Let me get you a drink' your reaction might be similar.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 23:18:17 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Subject: "...taken the very best"

I agree with Mr. Voci with regards to "taken the very best" referring to the sacrifice of life in the Civil War. The carnage of that war was devastating -- in part as a result of the 18th century military tactics that more often proved futile in the face of the 19th century advances in ordinance. The casualty figures suffered by both sides were astounding. When viewed from the perspective of its lower population base, the losses of the South are even more significant. I remember reading somewhere that one out of every four Southerners of conscription age was killed during the war. A great number of those who survived suffered severe injuries and loss of limbs. From that standpoint, Virgil Caine was indeed fortunate to have survived with the ability to perform manuel labor such as chopping wood.

Throughout the South, a young generation of farmers, wage-earners, husbands, fathers, sons and brothers was decimated. The practice of the States assembling regiments of men from the same general geographical areas only intensified the effects of the carnage. When a regiment incurred significant casualties, it often meant that an entire town, village or city was dealt of crippling blow. To make matters even worse, Confederate soldiers were often forced to fight on home ground -- the places where they grew up, the fields of their youth, became the bloody fields of battle.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 23:15:14 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

MattK

Well, at least we know that it was Rick singing on Dixie...

Entered at Tue Jan 28 23:15:04 CET 2003 from h-68-164-226-137.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.226.137)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Tue Jan 28 22:59:58 CET 2003 from gpf-t199.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.199)

sadavid

Subject: Rob't E. Lee

I am pretty firmly in the "no 'the'" camp, but if Mrs. Caine did see a boat, would it have been this one? Would "L. Miss. R." include Tennessee? Where in Tennessee would the Caines have been living in order to see it; and would that provide any information (e.g. typical size/type of farms) to support one camp or the other? See link for more, including a couple of thumbnail paintings.

Name: ROB'T E. LEE The 1st one

Type: Sidewheel wooden hulled packet

Size: 285.5' X 46' X 9', 1,456.31 tons

Power: 40s- 10 ft., eight 42" X 28' boilers allowed 120 lbs steam

Launched: 1866, New Albany, Ind. by DeWitt's "lower yard"

Destroyed: 1876, dismantled at Portland Ky.. Hull went to Memphis to serve as a wharfboat.

Area: L. Miss. R.

Owner: Cannon, Capt. John W. of New Orleans.

Captains: 1870, June 30, during race with NATCHEZ

Pilots, Pell, James, Clayton, George, King, Enoch and Jameson, Jesse

4. 1870, Dec., Master, John Smoker

Comments: 1870, Jun 30, raced the NATCHEZ.

: 1870, Dec. 22, 2:00AM, collided with The POTOMAC.

LEE had to be grounded to avoid sinking. Was raised and repaired.

: 1870, JUNE 30, 4:55PM: Left N.O. for race with NATCHEZ.

1870, July 4, 11:25 PM; Made St. Louis Won by 6 hr, 36 min.

1870: Made run N.O. - Natchez, 0/17/11

1870: Set and held record, N. O. to St. Louis, 3/18/14

1870: Made run N.O. - Cairo, 3/1/0

1870: Made run N.O. - Donaldsville, 0/4/59

: 1870, Aug. Was fitted with new stacks of a plainer nature.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 22:53:12 CET 2003 from host-48-198-220-24.midco.net (24.220.198.48)

Minotka

Subject: The Weight of Nothing

As we anticipate the Prez's State of the Union Address tonite, here is a Zen/Koan thought that's rather timely:

"Tell me the weight of a snowflake," a sparrow asked a wild dove. "Nothing more than nothing," was the answer. "In that case I must tell you a marvelous story," the sparrow said. "I sat on the branch of a fir, close to the trunk, when it began to snow, not heavily, not in a raging blizzard, no, just like in a dream, without any violence. Since I didn't have any thing better to do, I counted the snowflakes settling on the twigs and needles of my branch. Their number was exactly 3,741,952. When the next snowflake dropped onto the branch - nothing more than nothing, as you say - the branch broke off." Having said that the sparrow flew away. The dove, considered by many to be an authority on the matter, thought about the story for a while and finally said to herself, "perhaps there is only one person's voice lacking for peace to come about in the world."

Entered at Tue Jan 28 22:46:09 CET 2003 from rrcs-nys-24-97-50-254.biz.rr.com (24.97.50.254)

MattK

Promotional events set up by major labels involve a good deal of contracting and conditions between the label, the aratist and the venue (e.g. record stores). Usually, the label makes the artist available SPECIFICALLY with the condition that only certain, newly bought, items are signed (hence, why it is a SALES promotion). The artist is re-imbursed (directly or indirectly, as real $$$ or more likely part of the deal covering production costs for the recording, which artists have to pay back in spades to the label). Again, the label dictates to the artist what they should and should not sign as part of the deal.

In the case of The Band's Tower appearance in the 1990s, I highly doubt that either Pyramid Records (Jericho, HOTH) or River North Records (Jubilation) bring the same amount of formality or juice to the situation. Comparing those constraints to structure of the promotion that Capitol or Warners would set up for Robbie is plain silly. Comparing either situation to one of Rick's shows is patently naive.

None of this is meant as a slight on the "fan-friendliness" of Levon and Rick (in particular). Both guys are/were pretty outgoing and enjoy interacting with the public. Robbie, on the other hand, is on the record as being not nearly as comfortable or natural in such settings, which goes a long way towards explaining a degree of formality he may use in public to maintain his comfort level. A desire to construe this detachment as "anti-fan" or contemptuous is a bit of a stretch.

Some people are very outgoing with groups of people. Some people aren't. It says nothing about their personal character beyond the mere fact that some folks are more shy than others. Since we've yet to read of a Robbie incident over the last 20 years where he was a complete jerk to a fan, why not just assume Robbie's not a guy who likes to be surrounded by a crowd of total strangers acting like his best buddy. Frankly, I doubt the vast majority of us here would feel comfortable under such conditions.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 22:10:21 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Subject: autographs / teachings

I can recall asking for (and getting) three autographs. The first, when I was about 15, was that of George Armstrong, the former captain of the Maple Leafs. Pretty perfunctory, which is not surprising given the lineup of teenage boys. The first, ten years later, was that of Eugene Smith, whose LP I'd just bought from the stage; I'd prefer it was a case of expected behaviour rather than me traipsing around after the guy - but the fact that I've put the details out of my memory would suggest that the truth lies in the more embarrassing direction. The third, another 10 years on, was that of Australian author Thomas Keneally. He was in town to read from his travel book, "The Outback", which he'd been working on when he picked me up hitchhiking in the Northern Territory a few years before. He remembered me, introduced me to his publisher and wrote a very nice personal note in the copy of the book I'd brought along. (He had a clearer memory of my friend, an abolutely beautiful blonde woman - which is, I'm sure, why we were picked up in the first place!)

By the way, one of the handful of Keneally books I've bought over the years is "Confederates", the inside cover of which is a map of Virginia showing Richmond and the Danville train, though not Danville itself.

As for teachings, I kinda like the following rock 'n roll story (which was said to me to be true, but which is possibly apocryphal): a young man approaches the city's best rock bassist (Denny Gerrard of Bearsville artist Jericho) and says "Denny, will you teach me how to play?" Denny rips off an amazingly fast "Sailor's Hornpipe" and asks, "do you think you'll ever be able to do that?" When the answer comes back along the lines of "Oh no, not in a million years", Denny says simply, "Then there's nothing I can teach you."

Entered at Tue Jan 28 22:07:00 CET 2003 from (63.65.190.196)

KLJ

Entered at Tue Jan 28 21:49:47 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.23)

bob wigo

Harry, I have fond memories of the Valley Forge Music Fair as well. It was a great venue but, unfortunately, too soon gone. The Tower remains my favorite local venue and was my workplace for four wonderful years from '78 to '82.

There are, as you know, some other terrific venues in the area. The Keswick in Glenside, The Grand Opera House in Wilmington, the North Star Bar in Fairmount, the Tin Angel in Philly and the second generation "Point" out on the Main Line to name just a few. If you ever have the opportunity try to catch a show at the Kirby in Wilkes-Barre. Another great theater. We are fortunate.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 21:44:05 CET 2003 from tnt-77-44.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.44)

Tracy

Subject: signings, etc.

n/ It's interesting to note that at J&R Music, there was no stipulation made on what could and couldn't be signed by Robbie. The only thing was it could be two items per person, but once the line started to get longer, the restriction came down to one item per person. Not, whether you had a new copy of "The Last Waltz" or not. I was towards the beginning of the line and I heard the person in charge of the line saying this. I got a b&w presskit photo signed and so did my mom for a friend of mine. Neither was refused. If anything, he was sincere when my mom mentioned she just loved his solo work. Nobody was charged per item and if you wanted a picture of him, you just did it from the sidelines while he was signing or get the guts to face him and take a picture (which I did, and damn proud of it too!)

I think a major problem is people think an artist owes more to you in person than just a performance. You take me going to the huge show, NAMM that I attended a little over a week ago. There were plenty of musicians hanging around. I of course hung around the drumming area with my friend, Scott as we are both drummers. I got to meet some incredible people due to him. None had attitudes and I honestly felt more comfortable talking with them than some of my own family. We came across Sheila E. who was signing some stuff but I was very hesitant in approaching her. Scott told me that she feels she's above many other drummers. Somehow I got that impression. She acted more like a star than just someone you would want to simply say, "hi" to. Signings didn't cost anything there and they asked me if I wanted anything signed themselves. It was incredible meeting Carmine Appice, Kenny Aronoff, Dennis Chambers, Bernard Purdie, Steve Ferrone, Jim Keltner, John Blackwell, and others. I never expected anything from them. I will say Purdie put on an awesome performance backed by Larry Coryell at one of the display booths.

It all depends on what you expect. Personally, I would be offended by the Los Lobos members giving me the cold shoulder after saying something nice to them. I got to meet John Trudell in May of '98 and I was intimidated by his seriousness and intensity but he proved to be a cool guy which made me feel better. There's nothing like the feeling of being ashamed because you've said something complimentary of a person or their work and they don't know how to handle it other than being cold.

Tracy

Entered at Tue Jan 28 21:30:58 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Entered at Tue Jan 28 21:29:37 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Harry & Mim

Subject: Bob Wigo & Similarities

Bob:

Loved the Tower show with Little Village. "Solar Sex Panel" & "Big Love" stand out in our memory. How can you miss with Hiatt, Lowe, Keltner & Cooder in the band???

Crabgrass: Agreed on the worthiness of J. J. Cales' "Crazy Mama." Anyone who don't like it can skip over it. '96 was a good time for the The (Reformed) Band; however, 1994 was, as well. What I wouldn't give for a release of the August '94 Valley Forge Music Fair Show (just after the appearance at Woodstock, 1994). The Band was hot, LH took off the silver sunglasses when Mim made the suggestion/request, and "Stuff Ya Gotta Watch" miraculously came up in the rotation immediately after she yelled out for it... A coupla rows back in a small theatre in the round. The stage slowly rotates, giving the attendees more variety in the view; and probably giving any landlubber musicians a minor version of sea-sickness. Lee Gubers' VFMF (and another version of the same in Long Island, NY) have given musicians with a need for that size venue a place to play... Tower Theatre is bigger, nicer,and closer to the city - if you like that kinda thing... But Bob, for you, it's 6 of one, 1/2 a dozen of the other, isn't it? (Havertown kinda being in the middle of both).

Jeez, I seem to have found my double, and just a few miles away. Have you been reading our minds for decades now, Bob? (Or is it just a coincidence?)

And to the fellow who described our debauched parties - how the hell did you get invited over?

Entered at Tue Jan 28 21:09:49 CET 2003 from du-tele3-143.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.143)

Peter Viney

Signings – I don’t really seek autographed CDs myself, though I’m delighted to have signatures from Jim Weider and Mickey Jones on their mail-order CDs. My wife does like to have books signed and we have quite a few which has allowed me to observe the wide differences in how people do it. Number 1 is Douglas Coupland. We were first in line and while the line was being organized and the table set up, he sat and chatted to us for over ten minutes and wrote a very nice and quite long funny note to my daughter (who wasn’t there, but the book was for her). David Attenborough is a genius at spending precisely 90 seconds per person and making every one of them feel they’ve had a special and meaningful conversation. Other authors look perplexed and just scribble something illegible The wise musician is generous with their time. I’ve seen some spend an hour. I’ve heard that all The Band are generous with their time – and that includes Robbie (from people with his autograph).

Empty Now. My favourite (if it is one):

A young man wanted to become a Zen archer. He travelled many miles to see the master and said, “Sensai, how can I become a Zen archer?’ The master said, ‘If you practise three hours a day, five days a week, you can become a Zen archer in 20 years.’ The young man was horrified, ‘Sensai, I haven’t got 20 years. If I practise eight hours a day, seven days a week, how long will it take me?’ The master replied, ‘Forever.’

Entered at Tue Jan 28 20:43:35 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

The Koans in the Zen philosophy are very short stories, sometimes intended to expose an idea which is more difficult to describe in a clear manner, sometimes they are meaningless, anyone can find within just what he needs, etc.....The Koan of my previous post exposes my position (if it dose interest someone) toward the L-R debate, or any possible opposition between two from The Band Pantheon...These men, all these men, are too great...they are allowed to do, to say, or to think all what they need from my part. One Parabol, (which is surely not a Koan) says "Who never made a sin, throws the first stone" (sorry for bad translation)

Ed: I love the way that you find at each subject, a relevant qualification of the Illinois state, this is a wonderful consequence of a fruitful imagination, how long can you sustain.
My name (sorry for boring the GBers, they are already informed): like Simon says "Empty Now is my name and is my song". Please, listen to "Nobody's home" of Kansas band, in "Point of know return" album, you will understand all. Moreover, you will have no regret, it is actually a very good song (The Band should remake it, that's my secret wish)
Fruitful imagination: I'm waiting for some precisons about the Musical facet of TNTDODD

Entered at Tue Jan 28 20:35:56 CET 2003 from h-68-164-9-102.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.9.102)

Pat Brennan

Have received emails detailing Robertson's obvious willingness to give out autographs, so I'll sit over there if you don't mind.

Didn't they run the Letterman credits against the fellahs doing Rock n Roll Shoes?

Entered at Tue Jan 28 19:36:11 CET 2003 from m198214176085.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.85)

pehr

I hope this doesn't flame anyone but that Shania Twain gig at the super Bowl was the most hilariously awful "music" segment I have ever seen in my life! I got a kick of her moving thru the audience and at one point having to focus so much she forgot to lip synch. the Casio player was a howl! then she went off into the sky on that swinging contraption, how appropriate. I never had any real animosity to her or that stuff (Other than think that music that encourages inbreeding ought be discouraged, its just morally wrong) but that was a BAD GIG! And the Outfit! Bring back Vampirella!

Band Connection? Well our guys didn't go for that stuff much and should have played with Dylan at the first Super Bowl, when the Steelers won in 74, and The BB's and JWB blow those guys and Sting(K) away!

Entered at Tue Jan 28 19:32:40 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Long Distance Operator

I had the pleasure of meeting Last Waltz alum Mr. Ron Wood some years back. Very gracious and a hell of a nice guy.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 19:21:33 CET 2003 from 23.43.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.43.23)

Ray Pence

I think it's great that some Band members were more than generous with themselves and their time at places like Tower Records. Had I been there, I would have loved the chance to interact with them.

However, because Robbie Robertson doesn't do things the same way, I don't take that to mean he doesn't appreciate fans. And I don't use it as another reason to dislike him (don't dislike him in the first place, however).

I don't think we have the "right" to expect that Robbie, or any other "celebrities," conduct themselves like certain musicians who are exceptional in their outgoing-ness. (Or maybe we have that right, but are mistaken if we think the objects of our fandom have to agree.)

In fact we really shouldn't expect anything of them unless it's a performance that's worth the money we spend.

George Harrison--Mr. Gentle--was known for signing autographs as one of the OTHER Beatles. It's also been revealed that he sometimes would rip up what the fan offered him to sign. That information doesn't appear to have lowered admiration for Harrison.

I saw two members of Los Lobos in a record store right before I went to their show in Cincinnati in 1994, and made a remark or two about how much I liked what they did, and they gave me *very* cold shoulders. It bothered me but the incredible show they put on blew all that away.

At that point that's when I decided that I wasn't going to try to get "a piece" of "celebrities" anymore. There have been situations since when I've been in close proximity to some luminaries who mean a lot to me, but I don't approach them. Just being in the presence can be enough.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 19:19:03 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

On another topic, thanks to so many of you for the interesting and enlightening Dixie posts. I must confess that until the discussion caused me to read the lyrics I'd formed a completely erroneous scenario for the chopping-wood verse. I'd always heard a 'them' after 'mind', so I had the retreating Lee's soldiers taking the best of Virgil's store of firewood, though they paid him - if poorly - to chop it for them. Ridiculous when you think of it, but I didn't.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 19:09:51 CET 2003 from 1cust75.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.75)

Crabgrass

Subject: In-store Appearances

There was indeed a line that wrapped around the block to see the 90's Band in-store performance at Tower Records at E. 4th & Broadway and I was in it. Two brothers next to me brought an original poster from The Band's first concert at the Fillmore in San Francisco with the intention of getting Levon, Rick, and Garth to sign and I assume they did but can't verify it since I'm not really and autograph hound and left right after the acoustic set which included to my surprise "Don't Ya Tell Henry" from the Basement Tapes as well as J.J. Cale's "Crazy Mama" (which everyone here seems to hate, except me - in fact, I wish the JWB would start doing it!). I didn't own a working camera at that time and didn't even own a computer - that was back around February of '96 and the next night The Band performed at Carnegie Hall which was a great show. They also did a Letterman appearance and played "Stand Up" from HOTH (the album everyone except me seems to hate). I recall Levon looking particularly sharp at the time wearing these silver- mirrored sunglasses.

Anyway, with regard to in-store autograph sessions usually it's the store that lays down the rules about what the recording artist or author will or won't sign so I wouldn't fault any artist for adhering to the rules. I've also seen people at these in-store sessions who are obviously professional autograph hunters and bring several items to be autographed just so they can sell them on e-bay or something. I have the flyer for the Tower Records appearance somewhere amongst a bunch of stuff I never have the time to organize - nothing fancy but maybe I'll get it scanned for inclusion on the site sometime.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 18:06:09 CET 2003 from spider-wi023.proxy.aol.com (205.188.197.28)

Ed Voci

Subject: Illinois (where Gen. Lee never visited after the war)

Pat Brennan: I e-mailed you. Please try me again.

Empty Now (vuoto adesso): I was interested that Tribble interprets the “take what you need and leave the rest but they should never have taken the very best” line as pillaging by the Union army. I go the other way.

I interpret the “...you take what you need and leave the rest, but they should never have taken the very best...” as Virgil’s 1) tolerating the Confederate army for commandeering civilian livestock, grain, supplies, etc. for the war effort (the “ need”) which happened regularly and which pockets of Southerners violently resisted and 2) condemnation of the Confederate elite (the “they”)–not the Northerners--for ripping away the life of his brother and perhaps for depriving the South of the lives of tens of thousands of other young Southerners who had become human fodder rather than the flowering (“the very best”) of the South’s future. “They should never have taken the very best” can only refer to the conscription of good men and the best men to fight for the Confederacy. To say that “...should never have taken the very best” somehow applies to the North is nonsensical. The Union Army was not on a talent hunt and it was not “taking” it was killing as many gray uniformed soldiers as it could not knowing whether they were good, better or best. The Confederacy, on the other hand, was indeed looking for “the best” to lead its troops and to fight to win the war. Virgil painfully revisits his loss, there’s no bringing his brother back. “Ok, you want your war, take what you need to feed the boys in the army, but taking the very best, my brother, is too high a price for me to pay. It should never have happened.” Virgil’s talking anti-war stuff here, the futility and ruination of the war, and a break with the “they”, the ruling elite that commanded the Confederacy and its army that took his brother for its cause which no longer is Virgil’s cause. This is why “I don’t mind chopping wood” is so damn significant. He’s back as member of the working class without any pretension of aspiring to an elite class. In some parts of the South this break with the Confederate elite occurred much earlier than 1865. Some Southerners never got on board in the first place. Others pegged the war for what it was: a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight.

So, this is how The Band dealt with, as Al Edge aptly termed it, the core issue of the era: Virgil’s transformation from a proponent of the war to an opponent of the war. He transcended the “old” Virgil and we know many, many other Southerners did not. Virgil cuts across the grain of the Lost Cause folks, just like The Band itself cut across the grain by recording a rock&roll song a) about the Civil War, b) from a Southerner’s point of view and 3) did so during a period of unprecedented African American militancy. This is wholistic beauty of TNTDODD. There’s no moralizing here about slave holding–that would be too obvious for The Band. There’s something bigger and more powerful stated in nuggets of images, a huge transformation of a poor white who eventually comes to a realization that, in the end, the Southern elite actually drove “old” Dixie down. Of course, “old” Dixie, implies a “new” dixie and that’s what the singing and bell ringing it all about.

Final note to you Empty Now (where’d you get that name?): ponder, if you will, the old church hymn, “Amazing Grace”. Its powerful lyrics and majestic, uplifting music are legendary and unequaled as far as I’m concerned (ok, “Nessun Dorma” as sung by Luciano Pavarotti comes close, right Fred?). “Amazing Grace” is subject to many interpretations and the most common one is a sinner of some kind (“I once was lost” and “I was blind”) who saw the light and sinned no more (“but now am found” and “but now I see”). When I first learned that it had been written by a slave-trader turned abolitionist, I was blown away. It changed my view of the song. Man o man, I thought, of course, only a incredible transcendence like that could have created an incredible song like that. The same type of transformation in Virgil Caine makes TNTDODD all that more powerful. Otherwise, it’s just about defeat, death and bitterness which is ok, I guess, but I think The Band had a lot more in mind.

Al Edge:

Thanks for you kind words. A fence is a good place to sit. You can go in either direction whenever you want. Of course, I want to know who chopped the wood for the fence and who built the fence and I intend to pull you off my way. :-) You can’t leave the GB, you’re closer to agreeing with my argument than anyone else! Also, as a socialist, you need not idealize Virgil as a model working class non-slaveholder. Workers have done at lot of bad shit from time to time and if they were always right we’d being living in socialist paradise right now. What’s heroic about Virgil is his transformation and the point at which he ultimately arrives as I argued above. My pun at your expense: if the guitarist for U2 purchased the Israeli airline it would be called...................... Al Edge Airways. Seriously, hope you stick around.

Fred:

Loved the crack about Joe Walsh, and not Cole Younger, being the brains of the James gang.

Nancy:

Is that you, My Good Friend? You have the same writing style as My Good Friend Nancy. If so, you never told me about chopping wood. In fact the closest that MGFN ever came to chopping wood was sharpening a pencil to do the New York Times crossword puzzle (and she gave that up when they put it on the Web). In any event, I enjoyed your post. And ya, I’m enjoying this thread a lot. The people I’ve met, the knowlede I’ve gained are really something, including your bit on the pecking order of wood chopping on a farm. I agree with Mike Caricco that the “money no good” is the worthlessness of the Confederate Currency at the end of the war. It is not connected to the wood chopping for someone else. It just doesn’t make sense. Why would someone chop wood in exchange for worthless money? Nor is there any textual support that Virgil chopped wood for anybody other than himself. As you point out, the significance is the Virgil is doing work at the bottom of the pecking order. I would add that the fact "he don't mind" is of ultimate importance in demonstrating his profound transformation to the new Virgil.

Mike Caricco:

“work the land” could just as easily be a casual reference to the small business of farming on which the labor was provided by slaves. Same thing with your argument that the lack of explicit mention of slaves “speaks volumes”; the lack of explicit mention of Virgil getting behind a plow or fingers in the dirt could speak volumes about it not happening, especially since wood chopping is specifically mentioned. Furthermore, as Nancy points out, that work was reserved for those at the bottom of the pecking order and the fact that Virgil, the landowner, is now doing it is significant. The lack of specific reference to slavery is what the discussion is all about. Does the song deal with slavery and, if so, how? If not, why? Pat Brennan raised the possibility that slavery might have been “written out of the equation” all together. If RR’s liner note salvo directed at LH is true, i.e. that it was LH’s idea to remove any reference to Lincoln-as-symbol-of-anti-slavery because it might not “go over well in the South”, then we know The Band pandered to pro-slavery-racist-Lost Causers, avoided dealing with, as Al Edge said, the core issue of the era, and treated African Americans like no-shows in the pivotal piece of history (unless you accept the argument that the chorus is freed-slaves celebrating their freedom). I argue no, The Band took another route. The Band, individually and collectively gifted in the art of rock & roll, found a way to deal with the issue with lyrics which at worst are ambiguous and at best profoundly subtle. Afterall, this is THE BAND we’re talking about here. The five artists who cut across the grain musically, stylistically, culturally and commercially (using their own hand jig saws, of course). The question becomes what exactly is that point of view? Is Virgil ultimately bitter towards the North or the Southern elite? It boils down to whomever Virgil refers to as “they” when he agonizes that “ they should never have taken the very best.” See my comments to Empty Now.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 17:51:32 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Calvin

Subject: The Al Edge Commentaries

No problem about the CD Al, I had wondered but I was sure it would be along soon enough.

I do however disagree on part of your interpatation of the recent unpleasantness. I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one who thinks it was inevitable, and in the long run a very good thing. Over tha past 1 1/2 years posts had got more and more hostile, and I dont mean only by those who are by nature overtly hostile and rude but by everyone. Someone or something had to stand up and say, Enough Already, cut the crap or you can all go home. It had to happen, it needed to happen, and I for one am glad the more than a couple of people who oftimes posted rude and insensitive comments seem to have not come back.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 17:29:22 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

JTull Fan

Subject: Pat/Lee

You are geographically correct. My point is that his trip had spread rumours of appearances by him well beyond where he could reasonably be expected show up, and given the primitive way information and misinformation was likely to flow at the time, it is not beyond reason to assume there would have been false sightings. I find this, artistically within the Band songbook, to be a satisfying interpretation of the 'there goes Robert E. Lee' line, as it harkens to the 'the flying dutchman is on the reef' line found in Rocking Chair on the same album. Poetically, Lee is turned into that Flying Dutchman; a ghostly image in the hearts of defeated Southerners, doomed to eternity to refight a lost war for perpetuity. Or do you prefer a steamboat?

Entered at Tue Jan 28 17:21:16 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

butch

Pat, et.al. ,,,,,,,,,,, The " 90's Band " DID an instore,,,,, @ TOWER records NY

they played for about 1/2 hour then signed ANYTHING ANYONE brought by,,,

it was an in-house for Jericho or High on the Hog, i forget which,,, but the line went all the way around the block,,,, just to get in,,,

& LIKE I SAID,,, the fellas,, Levon, Rick, Garth, Richard Bell, Rando & jim weider ALL signed ANY & EVERYTHING fans brought,,,,,

anyone here attend ????

Entered at Tue Jan 28 17:01:22 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Subject: The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down

City Point, Va. March 21,1865
"...Stoneman started yesterday from Knoxville with a Cavalry force of probably 5000 men to penetrate S.W. Virginia as far towards Lynchburg as possible. Under his intructions he may strike from New river towards Danville. This however I do not expect him to do..."

--excerpt from letter to Maj. Gen. P.H. Sheridan from Lt. Gen. U.S. Grant
from "Memoirs And Selected Letters" by Ulysses S. Grant (The Library of America edition)

Entered at Tue Jan 28 16:51:12 CET 2003 from h-68-164-14-123.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.14.123)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Tue Jan 28 16:37:23 CET 2003 from h-68-164-14-123.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.14.123)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Tue Jan 28 16:24:32 CET 2003 from (81.22.68.85)

Empty Now

Excuse me Peter, i pick your last expression, to tell the next Koan from the Japanesse Zen (no relation with the last posts)

An old wise man, in the presence of his disciplus, had a judgement to make between two confrounted persons
After listening to the claim of the first person, the old wise man told him “I'm sure you're right”
After listenning to the second one, who was defending the opposite view of the first one, the old wise man told him “I'm sure you're right”
Then the disciplus asked the old wise man “but Sensei, you cannot agree with two opposite views”.
And the old wise man answered to the disciplus, “I'm sure you're right”

In a more serious chapter:
Peter: with all the respect due to your efforts, i failed in a previous post to mention that your citation in Mr S.Tribble thesis is refered more exactly:
For more on the (the) controversy see Peter Viney.........That’s also a question of ethics

Entered at Tue Jan 28 15:45:37 CET 2003 from du-tele3-162.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.162)

Peter Viney

I'm sure you're right Lee. Especially mentioning the Capitol "take over" idea which had slipped my mind. It wouldn't be that he's never seen it, but the general advice to artists is never to reply to criticism directly, because you never win. I can't see what RR would gain from confronting stuff - better to keep a distance.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 15:23:16 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.23)

bob wigo

Charlie Young, thanks for the link to the excellent piece on one of my favorite musicians. Ry Cooder is a fascinating subject.

One of the best decisions I ever made occurred back in the early nineties. I couldn't find anyone who shared my interest in a band called "Little Village" appearing at my favorite local venue, the Tower Theater. I had seen and heard John Hiatt many times, Jim Keltner and Nick Lowe as well. I had never had the good fortune of seeing Ry Cooder perform live. I went to the show alone and, frankly, it turned out to be one of the most enjoyable musical experiences I have ever had.

I realize it probably wasn't his "cup of tea" but....wouldn't it have been magical to hear what may have come if he would have slipped into that vacancy back in '76 ?

Entered at Tue Jan 28 14:51:53 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Lee

Entered at Tue Jan 28 14:43:27 CET 2003 from (81.22.68.85)

Empty Now

Al : Thanks for the wish. I wrote my last post before reading yours (wonderful post), and no need to repeat again that you are one of my favorites in the GB.
Coincidently, i found that there is a little possibility of interaction with the content of my last post. I would make the following precision:
By wishing that some of my own posts should be deleted, I think to a very personal concern that must be isolated in the context of that post. More exactely, I mean that every time i talked about “The Band”, i might verify the credibility of information and the accuracy of the analysis. This is a pure ethics rule

You are wrong when evoking some pleasure i got from the GB. The pleasure will be complete, when I will see posts from Amanda, BEG, BWNWITennessee, Roz,,......(this is not a preference order, but an alphabetic order)

Entered at Tue Jan 28 14:29:08 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

JTull Fan

Subject: response to Peter, 'There goes Robert E. Lee'

Peter, perhaps I can shed further light on that line. After the war, Lee was in increasingly failing health. It is speculated that he suffered a heart attack just prior to the battle of Fredericksburg. It was recommended that he travel south from Lexington, VA (where he was president of the then titled Washington College, now Washington & Lee)for a change of air and perhaps some rest at a spa or similar. He took one or two of his daughters and planned to travel in private, incognito. Unfortunately, the word got out and his 'vacation' became a Beatlesque mob scene at every railroad station, etc. as he traveled further south, all the way into Georgia if not further, I believe. It became a grand 'goodbye' tour. Rumours of his impending appearance would literally stop a southern town as everyone would gather at the train station or ferry terminal to see if the Great One would arrive. Therefore, even though Lee never visited postwar Tennessee, it is quite plausible that the local folk could have been on a hair trigger waiting for him to show up, and any Will Gere-like looking old gentelman with white hair and beard could have triggered the 'look, there goes Robert E. Lee!' syndrome.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 14:22:40 CET 2003 from du-tele3-066.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.66)

Peter Viney

The 'the' discussion has bored people rigid in the past. Scroll bar is to the right! Here's the Levon quote in full:

Levon Helm: Robbie and I worked on "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" up in Woodstock. I remember taking him to the library so he could research the history and geography of the era and make General Robert E. Lee come out with all due respect.

So that indicates to me that Levon has the General in his mind, not the boat, when he sings it. (And also note "I' took him to the library so "he" could research it.) Does anyone have that full morning TV version of Robbie doing TNTDODD from a couple of years ago? I think it cuts out before he gets to the line on Classic Albums, and I'm sure he'd do the line as he intended it to be.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 12:14:23 CET 2003 from du-tele3-168.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.168)

Peter Viney

Good to see Bashful Bill back. Wow, Al- I got so tied up in your post this morning that I had no time to read the daily tabloid, which is just as well as there’s never any good news. Lars and Sam have said it- the bars are off. Since they have been, it’s been pretty circumspect. And I hope that BEG, Amanda, & Tenn return. As to the requested explanation about Liverpudlian affection for the underdog / perennial loser, let’s say that this affection can become so strong that in extreme cases it can even lead to supporting Everton F.C. (most years that would have been funnier than it is this month).

The reason the GB might appear at times to have a rabidly Levonista tone (and it sometimes does) is that in general, while not being into the internet, the members of the 90s Band have been supportive / friendly to the website. At no time since it started has RR publicly acknowledged its existence. I think this is inevitable, because a glance over any particular week would show several snide (and boringly repetitive) remarks about Robbie – whether about Armani suits, BMWs, LA or an alleged failure to give free autographs (untrue in fact). If Robbie ever looked, I’m sure he’d think “well, I’ll keep away from that lot” because there’s no purpose when such a percentage have swallowed every single word of ‘This Wheel’s on Fire’ as the gospel truth. I’d point out that the Robbie Lobby as a whole, is very fond of Levon and interested in his doings. The Robbie Lobby simply believes that Robbie wrote the songs he’s credited with.

On the autographs one, we went through this. This was an official signing at a store. There’s an etiquette to this that should be obvious. The store puts on and publicizes the event and the idea is that you then buy a copy and get it signed. Robbie is in the position of fiction authors on back catalogue – the signature can vastly increase the value and a used record store owner with ten early copies of Big Pink could increase their value from (say) £5 each to £40 each by getting them all signed. Rare first edition books can double in value with a signature. So what could J.K. Rowling say to someone who wanted a first edition of the first Harry Potter signed? (Allowing that they go for £15,000 unsigned)? And a signature is worth more if dated within the time the book was originally on sale- authors have complained that people chase them at signings for “backdated signatures”! So usually the stores restrict it to 2 or 3 items, one of which is bought in store. I went to a Roddy Doyle signing , and assumed naturally that I’d have to buy a new copy of The Commitments to get it signed.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 11:34:28 CET 2003 from (81.22.68.193)

Empty Now

Subject: Mr Stribble - The impact factor of "The Band" site

Peter: The link is one page from a perso-web devlopped by Mr. Stribble. I found in his home page that the article on Robbie’s songs was written for a Master Thesis at Brown University, which I quote

“A graduate paper I completed while obtaining my Master's Degree in American Civilization at Brown University. It considers the dichotomy between the reactionary imaging of Robertson & The Band and the counter-hegemonic nature of his lyrics”

Thanks for pointing out the presence of some inaccuracies in the article, i also found a lot, which are beyond the purpose of this post. This remains true for any scientific litterature work.
After a first hysterical reaction, when i saw your name in the bibliography, i come back in a more meditative way.
More exactely your name is cited following a document from this website. The citations of a lot of documents from this site is a usual practice, they didn’t retain my attention furthermore. Now the link of Mr Stribble is a Graduate University Work, this reality set “The Band” website de facto in the Scientific Literature network. This is perhaps the purpose of any text written on the web, since the incoming of the Internet era. I posted before that the internet is a public place, i’m still believing it. But certain sites present one more serious image than others, and their usage is openned to the totality of present and future surfers, whatever are their concerns.
When I think to this aspect of the question, I hope that a substantial number of my own posts should be deleted

For those who are interested by the link above and the citation of Mr Viney, the latter is refered 31,

Peter Viney, "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down," The Band Web Site: Norway. 3 December 1998. http://theband.hiof.no/articles/dixie_viney.html".

Entered at Tue Jan 28 09:40:02 CET 2003 from (203.14.169.19)

Nancy

Hey Bill: I miss your old peace&love ex-hippie type posts and I'm sure I'm not alone there:) Can you email me please??

ikin94 at hotmail.com

Entered at Tue Jan 28 07:11:06 CET 2003 from syr-66-67-68-0.twcny.rr.com (66.67.68.0)

Bashful Bill

Entered at Tue Jan 28 06:32:34 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Just One

Entered at Tue Jan 28 06:00:27 CET 2003 from syr-66-67-68-0.twcny.rr.com (66.67.68.0)

Bashful Bill

I read an article in my favorite music mag-Goldmine- at work a couple days ago. Garth recieves some rare recognition, and I wanted to share some nice quotes, but I seem to have left it at work. The article was about members of famous bands who were intregal to the band's sound, but were overshadowed by other members for various reasons. The writer notes what anyone around here knows, that the original five were a remarkably talented group of individuals.He uses a phrase to describe them in their early days very similair to the "band of brothers" term which has often been thrown around here. Damn, I wish I had it in front of me,so I could be more accurate,but he opined that even when things were going downhill due to personal problems within the group, Garth could be counted on to be innovative musically and hold things together. I think he even said without Garth there would have been no "The Band" as it turned out, or maybe I'm imagining that part? If anyone has it, it really should be here on Jan's site. I recall awhile back a couple young southerners had a very nice webpage dedicated to Garth, is that still around? I'm reminded of the flurry of attention that Garth recieved when his album was released a couple years back(these articles can be found right here, BTW, our good webmaster provides more than a guestbook, this place, like Garth, is a wonder). Writers would meet Garth and or Maud somehwere around Woodstock and end up going to their home and spend hours mesmerised by their love and hospitality and of course by Garth's genius and talent.I felt envious reading their stories of Garth playing them music and expounding on his instruments and interests. One guy ended up leaving at dawn, and stood on Garth's porch looking at the mountains and wildlife dazed at whwt he had just experienced.One of those guys should go back and write a biography of that genious and gentle man.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 05:42:28 CET 2003 from dialup-63.208.245.150.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net (63.208.245.150)

JQ

Subject: Last Watlz view

There's a short and well-trimmed take on LH at this site under aftershave at: shaveandahaircut.biz

Entered at Tue Jan 28 05:34:52 CET 2003 from 1cust34.tnt2.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.201.37.34)

Charlie Young

Subject: Al's Post, More Civil Woah And Moah

Al Edge: if you aren't earning your living as a writer, you should be. You could write books or a newspaper column called "Al Edge-edly."

Pat: I can't recall who fed me that line about slave ownership, but it was probably a bookseller I know who had read it somewhere. It was a statistic about "indentured servants" in the North such as the African-American manservant of Philadelphia artist Charles Wilson Peale who may have actually created some pieces of art for which Peale received credit (not to mention cash).

On Virgil's age: my great-grandfather was just 19 when he was captured by Union troops and taken to the horrible prison camp called Ft. Delaware in the winter of 1865.

On the bit about charging a fee for autographs, sports figures do this regularly (and this may be part of the reason that a large percentage of signed sports memorabilia features faked autographs). Robbie is the only member of The Band whose autograph I lack, so I hope he will put out a book one of these days and do some signings on my home turf. Remember, Robbie, "...and life is brief.."

Entered at Tue Jan 28 05:31:33 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Al = loved your latest book - but you're right - I think you hung onto it too long. I hope we don't have a ground swell of crap dregged up now.

It's pretty well acknowledged that Tenn went over the line. I think he even, sort of, in his own way, acknowledged it himself. I had some GB boughts with him in the early days, but I guess I learned to ignore him when he was in "that mood" to just cut. I hated when he would get nuts because as bad as he was he would be that good when he kept himself in check. But you know, we are not face-to-face with each other. If so, Tenn would have had his clock cleaned several times by some folks in here. That's why I think Jan's initial banning was no surprise. I also think Jan's lifting of all the bans was good. Now if we fuck it up it's our own doing - and a damn shame too.

We always bounce back. There have been some real bad-asses in here that have gone away. They haven't gone quietly sometimes, but they go. If they don't get huge venomous reactions from their assinine jabs - they go away eventually. Al - Tenn came to a "last straw" situation I think. He can post if he wants, but he'd have some damage control to do. That's if he even wants to return.

For those of you who keep telling Roz to come back - she will. Hopefully as Roz :-)

Y'know - I can't help wondering how ANYONE can have such distaste for Robbie or Levon to the point they do, and be a real Band fan. Maybe it's me, but I can't figure that one out. We can discuss the feud, and throw around thoughts, but ultimately we don';t know what the hell we're talking about, and it's not our fight. As fans we can hope for a day when Levon and Robbie shake hands and jam - but that ain't happening anytime soon, so let's move on.

Lastly - I just hope everyone will stay cool. I noticed that someone already reacted to Al's post by calling Tenn names - without revealing themselves. That's not doing anyone anygood. I think Butch has the most reason to dislike Tenn and even he seemed to take the high road at some point (I hope it dosen't turn out to be Butch who did that recent post). We know what we need to do to keep enjoying this site. It's not difficult. It won't always been perfect in here (kinda like life), but we're in control of it. Thanks Jan.

wipeout1960 at yahoo dot com

Entered at Tue Jan 28 04:59:20 CET 2003 from dialup-63.215.119.254.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.119.254)

Pat Brennan

Your email is bouncing back attampts to communicate.

shepat(at)mindspring.com

Entered at Tue Jan 28 04:56:47 CET 2003 from dialup-63.215.119.254.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.119.254)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Tue Jan 28 04:49:37 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

AL

Entered at Tue Jan 28 04:29:41 CET 2003 from dialup-63.215.119.254.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.119.254)

Pat Brennan

Charles Young, slavery existed, at the time of the Woah, almost exclusively in the South. Only New Jersey had any apprciable slave population, and that was concentrated in a few northern counties. Even in those counties is was less than 10% of the population. Missouri ws probably 15% slave. Compare that to large areas of South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Virginia which counted over 50% of their population slave.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 04:11:04 CET 2003 from dialin-575-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.3.67)

Gene

Entered at Tue Jan 28 02:51:18 CET 2003 from (209.130.140.234)

Lars

Subject: Al Edge

AL: Maybe I'm missing something, but I think Jan lifted the ban on everybody in the world. This is the Last Frontier and you're free to say what you want. Hold on to your drink, don't put all your money on the bar, and make sure you know where the men's room is (it will shift on you as the drinks keep coming). Strangely enough, when Jan called off the restrictions, people sobered up. There may be fist-fights going on outside on the sidewalk, but our little bar has sobered up. I think most people (myself included) are just grateful to have a place to go to get out of the winter's chill. To swap stories, discuss mutual interests (not always about music), and just interact. There's nothing wrong with shrugging off a bad experience and getting on with living.

I enjoy your posts, Al. You don't have to go. You can if you want. But the bottom line is that quiet, harried bartender is Jan, it's his place. If he calls "last call" that's his right.

Entered at Tue Jan 28 01:58:50 CET 2003 from cache-ink1-kno-hsi.cableinet.co.uk (62.30.0.3)

Al Edge

My post last night was a personal acknowledgement of a marvellous thread on Dixie which I, along with some others, felt was so deserving of our kind regard. Fact is however, I've been wrestling with the dilemma of whether or not to post for a week or so now since digesting what had gone on here with the BWNWIT/Amanda/Jan episode. You could say I've been storing this one up but that wouldn't be right. More like I've been trying to get it all straight in my head.

Like everyone else I found the entire thing dispiriting. Obviously. But I also found it a mite more than that. Disturbing, I suppose I'd have to say. Without really being able to put my finger on exactly why. I just knew I felt pretty bad about it all. Each time I'd go to post, it was as if something would hold me back, telling me it simply wasn't right for me to do so - especially with any lighthearted stuff - whilst I hadn't fully resolved in my own mind what had transpired. Nor was it helped by the apparent geniality and cosiness of many of the more recent posts and posters. In fact the more chipper and progressive those posts and posters have become the more that little warning voice in my head has told me something wasn't quite right.

Now I daresay some might say that by clinging to those events and failing to shrug them off in the way many have appeared to do that I'm taking things a bit too earnestly. And maybe they'd be right in expressing such a view. Sometimes the way forward IS simply to let things go and move on. Regrettably, however, that is not the way this thing has grabbed me and it's why I'm writing this.

So do please forgive me if what I'm about to say does come across as a tad too solemn and sanctimonious but that is just how I feel about it all. As any regular will be aware, I am one who usually tries - as much as anybody on here - to avoid such a tack by injecting as much frivolity into my posts as I can muster. Often, too much of it, I have to say. This time, however, I feel there's far too unpleasant a taste still lingering beneath the surface for me to contemplate any of the frivolous stuff. What I'm about to say IS earnest. Quite simply it is a reflection of my perspective on what's happened and I'm afraid it doesn't make for very easy or digestible reading for any genuine GB'er, though I must reassure ALL of you there is no personal offence intended to anybody. It is simply as I see it.

I must begin by stating that my only real affinity with the person currently cast as villain of the piece, BWNWIT - other than the obvious Band connection mutual to everyone on the GB - is perhaps our shared compulsion to piss about a bit too much and look for the funnies and ironies in life wherever possible. 'Buffoons' I think Serge has termed each of us on different occasions. Despite this shared dubious distinction I don't think BWNWIT - unlike say Pete Viney or Bob Wigo - has ever once actually acknowledged any of my own humorous efforts [not, of course, that there's anything remotely unique in that :-o) ] and he has certainly never passed any favourable comments on any of my serious pieces [again nothing unique there either :-o)]. So he's by no means my bosom cyber buddy and, I'd venture, rarely, if ever, a true kindred spirit of mine. I find him a just okay if rather too overtly polemical sort of guy who has insulted me in humorous fashion every now and again - and me him too - but certainly has never hurt my feelings - or mine his.

By way of a fair degree of contrast Amanda has often posted pleasant responses to my stuff for which I've always been appreciative. Most recently, she was one of the few to pass nice compliments on those lengthy Big Pink pieces I had so painstakingly composed. Again I wouldn't by any stretch term us bosom cyber buddies but there is a cerebral cyber connection however tenuous. Ours is a more gentile, respectful sort of cyber relationship.

I say all this, incidentally, not to bore all of you totally rigid but so as to demonstrate my complete ambivalence in regard to any prevailing ill-will that may have existed between BWNWIT and Amanda and what subsequently passed off between them in this recent incident.

Now from what I've read of the BWNWIT comment that triggered all the commotion - in which he referred to a post from way back where Amanda admitted to being so wrapped up in the GB that she had 'neglected' her kids - I'd say without any question he was wrong to have made it. It was, at once, uncalled for, below the belt and hurtful. In fact, the comment said more about BWNWIT's loose tongue/big gob than it ever did about Amanda. For let's face it - show me a person who can honestly say they have never 'neglected' their loved ones while they've been engrossed in these sort of forums and I'll show you a liar or a poor deluded fool. Forinstance, anybody reading this diatribe is demonstrably already well founded in such a category - and pity help the guy who's written it. :-o) Anyone else has either simply not had Amanda's bad luck or else their kids are of a more responsible age group. Nor for that matter I'd guess have the majority of us been as honest and open as Amanda in letting our cyber buddies know of our self-indulgent 'aberrations'.

That said, the other side of the coin tells me that what BWNWIT wrote was, in itself, no more than an impromptu outpouring of retaliation onto his keyboard. He can clearly at times be a somewhat hotheaded and ungracious character with a quite cutting humour - in fact not unlike many of us on these sort of forums - and was clearly wound up by a previous dig from Amanda - albeit far less offensive - that had been aimed at him. Yes, he reacted badly. Yes, it was wrong. Yes, it was nasty. No, it was by no means his first such aberration. But hey, come on. Has nobody else on here never done or said or typed anything nasty that they now regret? Particularly in response to a pointed jibe, however trivial or childish that jibe may have been. Not many, I'd wager, could deny responsibility for resorting to retaliatory vitriol at least now and again when triggered.

And a few more rather significant things in respect of this fateful post both of which have been quite grievously misrepresented and overlooked - probably in genuine error - in the subsequent GB wash.

First BWNWIT was not the instigator of the ruckus. In that aspect at least he is entirely blameless. Ironically, the instigation was down to Amanda's misinterpretation of an innocuous 'play on words' post from BILL that Amanda - bless her - had felt was an attack on her hero, Levon. BWNWIT merely responded in what he felt - though clearly nobody else shared his interpretation - was 'in kind' and 'fair game' to Amanda's initial dig at him and Bill.

Second BWNWIT's post was directed purely at Amanda. In no way was there any slur - intended or otherwise - on Amanda's child. The child was mentioned because it had been the child that Amanda had temporarily forgotten about whilst she'd been absorbed in the GB. It was that so-called 'neglect' - for want of a more appropriate word - that lay at the butt of BWNWIT's jibe at Amanda. Not the child itself. The subsequent spate of postings accusing BWNWIT of targetting Amanda's child were misdirected. Yes, the jibe was in extremely poor taste and should never have seen the light of day - but, no way was it ever aimed at Amanda's child.

Right, so I'll now get to my main point.

I'm no genius. But I'm certainly not a fool either - no matter that I sometimes act it on here and elsewhere. Having thought long and hard about how events transpired in this little furore, there is now little doubt in my mind that the reason BWNWIT was barred from this GB ultimately had very little to do with his nasty comment to Amanda and everything to do with his continual attempts at character assassination of Levon Helm and accompanying moral whitewashing of Robbie Robertson. I'm not saying his comment to Amanda was not worthy of ours' or Jan H's condemnation. It clearly was. It's simply that it was not sufficient justification for his being banished. Nor, I strongly suspect, was it the reason for that banishment.

For quite some time BWNWIT had been taking the very high moral ground over the LH/RR feud. We've all read the sort of stuff he had to say. His stance was as clear as day. To put it mildly, he had little if any respect for Levon Helm and his supporters. He was by no means the only one who had expressed such a view but, in recent times, he had certainly been the most vociferous, the most tenacious and, at times it must be said, the most vindictive. Levon's oft-quoted bitching at RR was something that patently galled BWNWIT quite badly and he clearly felt compelled to reciprocate by supporting RR and bitching back at Levon and his supporters at every opportunity.

Levon, Butch, Lil, Harry & Mim, Amanda and others had all fallen victim from time to time to this 'vendetta' - as the Levonistas might term it. At times it hadn't been exactly what you'd term 'nice'. Indeed, there are, no doubt, many on here who would say such unpleasantness was completely uncalled for. That lobby would, incidentally, include myself - being purely and simply a Band fan, neither Levonista nor Robertsonian [Dankonian, Hudsonian or Manuelonian if anything at all I suppose and what's more a Band fan who is saddened at seeing any such attempts to degrade Levon, Robbie or, indeed, any of those dear souls who once comprised our band of heroes]. It doesn't mean that a lot of the flack aimed in both our heroes' directions had no substance. At least some of it clearly did, whether it be in respect of Levon's sniping at Robbie or BWNWIT's sniping at Levon. It's just that I never enjoyed reading about it. It was simply dirty laundry. And we all of us - even the most innocent of us - have some dirty laundry. People in glasshouses...and all that - or should that be washhouses? [I'm allowing myself one pathetic joke :-o)]

The point is, however, that this place we all frequent is a Band forum. Let's set aside for the moment that its original purpose was simply as a Guest Book. For many years its function has been to accommodate all manner of debates about The Band and anything remotely related thereto. THAT is its raison d'etre. BWNWIT is manifestly a huge Band fan - an articulate and impassioned one at that - and so surely as long as he supports a reasoned argument - which he invariably has done as far as I have ever been able to determine - he should be able to put it across on these Band forum pages, no matter how disagreeable or unpalatable some with opposing views may happen to find it. What, otherwise, is the point in having a forum?

As it turns out, on this occasion BWNWIT wasn't allowed to. He was deemed to have crossed the line. What could be construed as a convenient major flare up between himself and Amanda has seen him barred. As I've said, the implication is that the barring is on account of his insulting Amanda. However, it is difficult not to draw the conclusion that it is more as a direct consequence of all his slurs against Levon and the Levonistas in connection with their own hostile attitude to Robbie.

Fact is that the most vociferous and most distinctly anti-Levonista voice has now been dis-enfranchised at a stroke.

Put upon all this whatever slant you wish but, in the final analysis, I am finding it hard not to arrive at the opinion that what we are witnessing on this 'open' forum of debate is the censorship of a voice because it happens to be at extreme odds with an influential element of that forum - the pro-Levon faction of the GB; that the thin veil of anti-social behaviour has been in this instance little more than a handy vehicle by which to dispose of what some on here have perceived to be a lingering, festering sore.

Now, as I've previously pointed out, BWNWIT is by no means always my cup of tea. True at times he can be a marvellously entertaining poster. However, I abhor what he said to Amanda. I've not liked how he's goaded the life out of the Levonistas nor, for that matter, have I particularly welcomed all those digs he has levelled at myself and my fellow Brits. Sure we went along with them at the time - what else do you do? Complain? Indeed it was his prompting that once led Jan H - mistakenly as he was later to admit - to threaten me with being banned from here for my joking about being gay. Some joke huh?

Despite all the misgivings, I nevertheless refuse to sit back and let BWNWIT be banished from a forum to which he is so clearly emotionally attached without speaking up for his moral right to remain a part thereof or at least be given a warning and the chance to redeem himself. My Liverpudlianness - Roger Woods or Pete Viney will explain the ramifications of that if needs be - precludes me from adopting any other stance than one of solidarity with a fellow forumite whom I consider to have been unjustly treated no matter how self-inflicted some of the reasons for that treatment might be. A forum should be big enough to accommodate all voices - including an occasionally objectionable wifeless big mouth from Tennessee.

I find what has manifested itself on this board in connection with this regrettable episode to be very sad. I fully realise that this magnificent website is very much Jan H's domain and he is at liberty to do what he wants with it. However, acceptance of such a reality should not obscure the conundrum of why now? Why this particular guy?

Snide insults and 'flaming' have been part and parcel of 'forums' of this type since they began. We've all had to endure it from time to time. I'll no doubt get it in bucketloads for what I'm saying now. It is an inherent and inevitable element of the nature of the beast and it has been a prominent feature of this particular forum ever since I arrived on its pages. BWNWIT has been here for more than three years. I doubt very much whether this controversial 'side' of him has only just surfaced during the time I've been visiting the GB.

Sure Jan H can act on such matters in the manner he sees fit. And more power to his Scandinavian elbow should he elect to exercise his power. It is his prerogative to do whatever he wishes. As, indeed, he almost did with me when he misinterpreted the aforementioned joke 'gay' posts I had put up. However, simply because Jan H happens to be the creator of such a magnificent website and is rightly esteemed because of that, does not mean that, when he decides upon a particular course of action, such an action is necessaily justified having regard to its true circumstances. Nor does it mean that those of us who have invested much of their leisure time browsing his pages and composing and posting their contributions have no choice but to agree with his decision if they consider it wrong.

One gets the distinct impression that there are but three possible underlying reasons behind BWNWIT's banishment.

First that Jan H himself has been an innocent victim of incessant and ultimately unbearable pro-Levonista pressure for him to cut out what they perceived as that festering Tennessee based sore of anti-Levonista resentment. Second that Jan H, himself, has had his own pro-Levon emotional bonds and tolerance levels tested once too often by BWNWIT's persistent Levon baiting. Third that his employers have pressurised him to take some definitive action to bring to order those that might be considered by an authoritarian regime as Jan H's misbehaving 'children'.

Whichever of the three it happens to be - or indeed whether it's a combination of all three - the insult of Amanda incident seems to have been interpreted ostensibly as representing the catalyst for the dismissal when it surely wasn't.

Not that I blame Jan H - nor the Levonistas for that matter - if as I suspect it is the case that they have finally snapped under BWNWIT's incessant barrage. It is the instinct of anyone under attack to defend themselves or strike back. BWNWIT must have expected some sort of retribution at some stage. What sticks in the craw is what comes across to me as the employment of this furore as the vehicle for a final solution in dealing with BWNWIT's snipes.

Now I fully realise that life has to go on whatever transpires and that in the final analysis the GB must simply shrug its collective shoulders and get on with enthusing about all things musical or anything else it cares to wax lyrical about - whether that be The Band, pizzas, flapjacks or mom's homemade apple pie. This, after all, at its very heart is merely an intermittent source of leisure to most. A local cyber pub with a distinctly North American flavour and a sprinkling of the rest of the world on top. However dear and precious it has become to many GB'ers - myself included - it is not and never will constitute a matter of life and death. We all have - or should have where possible - bigger and more substantial fish to fry, so that even the most significant maelstrom on here should never constitute anything other than a bleep in each of our lives.

Personally, however, I feel there are certain raw principles at issue here which I am unable to dismiss lightly enough to continue pursuing my own enjoyment on the GB. As I said earlier I mean no offence in this. Most on here - perhaps all - clearly don't view things the same as me nor with the same degree of gravity. Indeed, as I've already mentioned the levity of the postings since Jan H's 'all clear' pronouncement is quite tangible as you read down. So be it. Maybe I do take it all far too seriously. Simply to put it all to one side may well be the more realistic and sensible way to deal with these sort of things rather than writing 5,000 words in an effort to rationalise what, after all, amounts to little more than petty recriminations over ideologies of limited consequence.

Whatever. Please forgive me if I can't follow what seems to be the prevailing trend. As it is, for my own part, as much as it really does pain me to do so, I find myself compelled to take a resolute stance on the issue. Until BWNWIT has his access to the GB restored then I will share his isolation from it. It is certainly not something I want - as will be evident from the enjoyment I clearly derive from posting on the GB and the time and trouble I've taken to write all this. Nevertheless, it is the way I feel about it. I've never washed my hands of any issue with which I'm personally implicated and with which I feel a degree of solidarity however marginal. I'm not about to start now.

BTW - Rollie - No, you can't join me. You've left enough times already and one more would surely be too much for anybody to bear :-o)

BTW Calvin - my cd burner is knackered - I will get that disc to you as soon as I'm sorted mate

BTW Amanda - I am compelled to say I can see no reason why you yourself cannot return to the GB. This was an unfortunate episode. It has clearly caused you much distress from which I hope you have emerged wiser and calmer than before it all kicked off. BWNWIT was way out of line yet whilst diametrically opposed to Levonistas like yourself clearly meant no malice to your child. He was taking a potshot at you because he felt you had taken one at him [and Bill]. It was a ridiculous clash that has caused far more grief than it - or anyone - merited. There is, however, little to be served in you staying away from the site. Everyone realises these things get emotional but you are a valued GBer with many years attachment and you really should think hard about returning and making up with those such as Pete V who I'm positive appreciate you and I'm sure will be delighted to welcome you back with open arms. :-o)

BTW Roz - totally unrelated but same for you girl. The GB clearly does miss your unique style :-o)

BTW Empty Now - the pleasure this GB seems to provide you with is really something. Hope things turn out for you.

BTW Crabby - please note - some 5,000 words and not one cuss - will that do ya? :-o)

BTW Everyone else - especially Pete V and Roger - bye and thanks. Hope we hook up again :-o)

Entered at Mon Jan 27 23:40:57 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Ben Pike

I've avoided the whole endless "Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" thread, but I'll cast my vote though we have no doubt been down this road before: The the was always there, always will be. Of course it's possible Mrs. Kane was pointing out that this was the man himself, rather than the Robert Ellswood Lees or the Robert Esterbrook Lees that were causing a lot of confusion at the time..(this is THE Robert E. Lee) And it's not particairly gentlemanly of Robertson or Helm not to cop to it in Baez's defence. As we know from the endless misatributing of "A Change Is Gonna Come"; Marcus does not like being corrected.

Speaking of Marcus being wrong; for all the hagling over the rather obvious point that Rick ALSO sings lead on ALL of "Holey Smoke"; not much has been said about the odd vocals on "Knockin Lost John." In the original review of "Islands" Marcus credited Richard Manuel singing lead, though there really is no lead vocal. I say, Richard doesn't sing on it at all: and it's a shared three part lead of Danko, Robertson, and Helm(who comes in louder on the chorus).

Entered at Mon Jan 27 23:37:22 CET 2003 from plantlogic.com (209.195.208.11)

bassmanlee

Sheesh, and I always figgerd he was choppin' wood on acount a he couldn't buy coal no more...what with his money bein' no good and all...mebbe I am a know-nuthin' after all.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 23:34:22 CET 2003 from (209.236.161.52)

Mikey Lenahan

Subject: Need live Barnburners cd

That's right BONES...we would all love to see a live cd out soon. Maybe Mr Helm and the Barnburners with the Jim Weider Band LIVE IN BEARSVILLE 12/31/02??????? I could only hope! On feb. 7 Levon will be at Radio City Music Hall in the great city of NEW YORK. This show will be put out on cd and dvd. I was lucky to have seen Levon with The Band in 1996 and with the Barnburners and he still kicks ass. I only wish I could play drums like Levon Helm.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 23:12:38 CET 2003 from ric-sn-oprx-pxy2.firstunion.com (169.200.215.36)

Bones

Butch: Has the talk of an official Barnburners release subsided? So many people leave those great shows wanting to take that music home with them. There is absolutely an audience for it.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 23:09:28 CET 2003 from du-tele3-046.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.46)

Peter Viney

Thank you Wittgenstein for locating the literary reference to William Burroughs' Dr Benway. I believe The Naked Lunch was rather a rude book and it's over 30 years since I read it. It never seemed worth revisiting, though I like the line you quoted. I seem to recall that it spawned the name Steely Dan (or was that a different contemporary rude book?) Anyway, that gives it a vague Band link.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 23:03:35 CET 2003 from du-tele3-046.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.46)

Peter Viney

Robert E. Lee- As Pat has said in the past, Lee didn’t actually visit post-war Tennessee, but I doubt that their research in the Woodstok library extended that far. But here’s an extra piece of evidence for the General. Levon has a distinctive accent and idiolect. I really need IPA (International phonetic Alphabet) to explain this, but I’ll write it out as “normal” English. Most people say “uh(a) pen, uh (a) tree, and thuh (the) pen, thee (the) apple. Levon says“ay pen, ay tree” and “thee tree” and “thee apple”. The first version is clear to me as “There goes Robert E. Lee’ but later live versions are less clear, almost as if he says, ‘There goes –uh-Robert E, Lee”. Everyone from Marcus on took the piss out of Joan Baez for adding “the” clearly and making the General into the steamboat. But Levon wouldn’t sing “thuh” Robert E. Lee (which is easily missed), but “thee” Robert E. Lee, which you couldn’t miss when listening. If you compare Band live versions with studio versions of several songs, both Rick and Levon tended to add syllables or at least ‘breaths’ to live versions to help the line along. I think there’s sometimes a live intake of breath, but on the Brown album, it isn’t there. Compare: The only word-perfect version of The Weight since Big Pink is probably Robbie at the Sevilla Guitar Legends concert. Rick was known to take great liberties with the lyric.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 22:50:35 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.20)

bob wigo

Peter, I wouldn't even pretend to have examined the lyrics of this song as completely as you have but....would it have been more likely for Virgil to have seen the riverboat "Robt. E. Lee" or the general himself? I must admit I've heard "the" in more than one of Levon's interpretations. Just throwing in my two cents realizing that is all it's worth in this discussion.

Peace

Entered at Mon Jan 27 22:20:13 CET 2003 from du-tele3-017.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.17)

Peter Viney

Empty Now- thanks for the link to Scott Tribble’s excellent and informative article. However, I’d say that it’s definitely Robert E. Lee not THE Robert E. Lee because Levon talks about making sure due deference was paid to Robert E. Lee and he didn't mean the steamboat. And of course “We Can Talk” is by Richard Manuel, not Robbie Robertson.

Lars- I see Virgil as 19 to 21 too.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 22:13:47 CET 2003 from (64.208.185.171)

Lars

Subject: Old Virgil

Just a thought, but did it ever occur to anybody that Virgil Cane was a farming, wood-cutting TEENAGER? True, he has a wife, but teenagers can have wives. He's a farmer "Like my father before me" and "Like my brother BEFORE (perhaps meaning older) me, I took a rebel's stand. He was just 18, proud and brave...." Even if his brother was killed in 1861, that would make the younger brother, in 1865, no more than 21, perhaps younger.

While we're on the subject of wars, I was kind of surprised to see Butch's post about some bad feelings between Prof. Louie and Randy/ Jim. That's too bad, they're all good people. But I am always amazed when I hear that so-and-so won't let a former band (small "b") member play bass in his band, not even for a night. Or so-and-so will only play a gig if their friend opens for them, they refuse to have a former bandmate open for them. Probably "so-and-so" will read this and think I'm a bastard for bringing it up, but I haven't named any names. I still love you, I just don't know why you have to be that way. Probably only Butch (besides the principles) knows what really went down, but Butch doesn't give out anything unless he wants to. And in this particular little "fued" (I hate using that word) I guess he decided he would give the gb a glimpse of what goes on behind the scenes in the "family" of the Band. It's too bad: so much beautiful music coming from so many pissed off people.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 21:57:11 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Entered at Mon Jan 27 21:48:11 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.20)

bob wigo

Thank you Jon. I didn't realize I could download it from the site. I appreciate your reply.

Peace

Entered at Mon Jan 27 21:44:34 CET 2003 from 209-166-233-21.cust.walrus.com (209.166.233.21)

Jon Lyness

Subject: for Bob Wigo

Hey Bob W, it's your lucky day! The entire show you're asking about is available from this very site...check Jan's Levon page under Audio Files, where it's listed under "Bearsville Theater". It's a great one. Hi all!

Entered at Mon Jan 27 21:31:05 CET 2003 from on-tor-blr-a58-01-754.look.ca (216.154.2.246)

Wittgenstein

Subject: waiting on The Edge

Peter Viney: Easy on ol' Pete Seeger there.... by the way, your 'friend' Dr. Benway is the name of a William Burrough's creation in Naked Lunch. A very sinister man was Benway

Dr. Benway is operating in an auditorium filled with students:"Now, boys, you won't see this operation performed very often and there's a reason for that....You see it has absolutely no medical value."

Personally, I like when posters assume literary names. I myself have gone into the chatroom as Pvt. Yossarian. I was quite pleased when someone asked me what kind of name was 'Yossarian' since I could then reply "It's Yossarian's name", but maybe you've had to have read the book, Catch - 22 of course. Crabgrass: I guess if one gets angry with you he should tell you to go to heaven.

Charlie from Va.: That was exciting news about the Scoppa book on The Byrds. I ran up to my bookshelves and found a copy that I bought for a couple of francs in a bookshop on The Boul Ste Germaine of all places back in '76. Unfortunately, I'm too old to be running up the stairs now. I also have a book on The Byrds from 1971 by a British writer named Andrew Weiner. Anyone over there heard of him? Could that one be worth $250 too? Have The Byrds suddenly made me rich?

While fumbling through these books I found a program from The Fillmore East from June 27, 1969. Seems that I caught The Byrds and Procul Harum, two of my favorites. The opening act was a band called Raven. The program says that two of the members of Raven "played for a time with some members of The Band before they became associated with Dylan, appearing before audiences in the Buffalo - Toronto area as 'Levon and the Hawks'." Tom Calandra (bass) and Gary Malabar (drums) are the musicians. Why would The Hawks have needed a bass player and a drummer? Bill Munson,have you heard of these guys?

Entered at Mon Jan 27 21:27:36 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Entered at Mon Jan 27 21:00:22 CET 2003 from garco.cpe.newsouth.net (64.90.4.86)

Mike Carrico

It is a testament to the quality of the writing that the lyrics of TNTDODD will sustain so many varied interpretations. I have always seen Virgil Caine as a small farmer, typical of the majority of the southern fighting force. A key phrase is "like my father before me, I will work the land". By this I think he means fingers-in-the-dirt stuff; not in some larger sense where his land is worked by others for his benefit. He is behind that plow himself, just as his father was. For that same reason he doesn't mind chopping the wood. As for the money being "no good", I believe he is talking about Confederate currency, rendered worthless by the handshake in Wilbur McLean's parlor. He may have owned slaves, but I tend to doubt it; the absense of the subject matter from the song speaks volumes.

Empty Now, thanks for providing the Italian translation. I note the use of the word "sangue" in the third verse, which would appear to place the Italians squarely on the side of "blood" in the mud/blood debate.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 20:50:45 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

"Image & the Convolution of Message in Critical Receptions of Robbie Robertson's Songs"

Entered at Mon Jan 27 20:13:05 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Subject: Virgil Caine

Here is a serious web-document in the link, where you can find some elements of information on how can slave-owners fit into TNTDODD lyrics.

By Scott L. Tribble,
Deptartment of American Civilization, Brown University

Good News: Mr Viney is cited in the bibliographic reference (i'm glad)

foot-note: i believe that there are much more impotant discussion topics related to the exegesis of TNTDODD.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 20:05:32 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.20)

bob wigo

The following is listed in the Tape Archive. Does anyone here have a copy of this show? I would be willing to trade.

Date: 7/3/99 Performer: Levon & The Barn Burners
Location: Bearsville Theatre, Bearsville
Source/Quality/Length: Internet/EX/110
Note: Levon Helm on drums with the Barn Burners, guitarist Pat O'Shea, lead vocalist and harmonica player Chris O'Leary and upright bassist Frankie Ingrao with Amy Helm on vocals and guests Garth Hudson , Mindy Jostyn, Phoebe Snow, Walter Becker, Donald Fagen and Jimmy Vivino. Several of the songs are originals written by Barn Burners singer Chris O'Leary.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 18:22:18 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Entered at Mon Jan 27 17:27:12 CET 2003 from dialin-70-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.1.70)

Gene

Entered at Mon Jan 27 17:14:18 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Entered at Mon Jan 27 16:53:32 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.20)

bob wigo

Let's hope, in fact, it was a "paying" tribute.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 16:39:34 CET 2003 from 1cust183.tnt2.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.201.37.183)

Charlie Young

Subject: Johnny Johnson & More TNTDODD

I forgot to mention a while back that I read that Johnny Johnson's lawsuit for royalties on songs he claimed to have helped Chuck Berry write in the 1950s and early 60s was thrown out of court by a judge who ruled that too much time had passed. I hope that the corporation called the Rolling Stones cut him a check for helping out at that gig the other night...

Question for Pat on the slave discussion relating to TNTDODD: is it true that there were actually more slave owners in the North at the time of the Civil War, but far fewer actual slaves? My mother's grandfather was a Confederate POW near the end of the Civil War at the Ft. Delaware prison camp, but he survived and lived until 1929 (a good year to check out with the stock market crash and all). He owned a large farm and had lots of kids but no slaves. To this day, the African-American population of Carroll County Virginia is virtually nil.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 16:34:52 CET 2003 from h-68-164-13-143.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.13.143)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Mon Jan 27 15:39:31 CET 2003 from (81.22.68.177)

Empty Now

Everybody recognized in the subject item the Socrates sentence on what can we reach for knowledge or what can we ever know

Nancy : Thanks for your post. It is a genius mix of cleverness and modesty. As a (modest) response to your last line, your post brought me much more than you ever imagined. We can exit the debate with no accurate statement, nothing will repalce the pleasure we got meanwhile.. Once again, thank you

Entered at Mon Jan 27 15:12:21 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.20)

bob wigo

I am pleased to read that the great Johnnie Johnson took a turn with the Stones on Saturday night in Houston. Word is he rocked the house on "Honky Tonk Women". Last week it was Hubert Sumlin at MSG. I hope the trend continues not just with the Stones but with bands across the land. Honoring your roots is a good thing.

Thanks for all the great posts of late.

Peace

Entered at Mon Jan 27 15:10:39 CET 2003 from (203.14.169.19)

Nancy

I don’t think you can infer whether Virgil Caine was a slave owner or not, based on the lyrics to TNTDODD (although I’m happy Ed and others are having a good shot at it). There simply aren’t enough clues to point you in that direction or take you away from it. At the end of the day, we draw our own conclusions based on how the song affects us, and what we want to believe. There are no right and wrong answers, and I expect that the people involved with the debate so far understand this and just enjoy good discussion!!

What seems clear is that Virgil Caine has faced huge changes and losses in life since the end of the war. He now chops wood and talks about how poorly that job pays, meaning to me that he has to work for others to provide for his family, whereas before he might have been a self-sufficient land owner. While having to work for others at a menial task could be demeaning for him, it doesn’t upset him as much as other aspects of the defeat he and his countryman faced.

The wood chopping comments made me smile. I know from experience who it is in a farming family that does any wood chopping and it surely isn’t the ‘ol’ man’, the one who owns the land and gives any orders!! Peter’s right, it’s a vital task that has to be tackled with monotonous regularity, but its also a menial task that is left to someone lower on the pecking order than the one who owns the land, and is therefore in charge of far more important work than splitting logs. If Virgil had been a profitable landowner before the war then there’s no way he’d have done his own wood chopping, unless like Van Morrison’s father, he found it strangely therapeutic.

Even if he was relatively poor or owned no slaves to do that kind of chore, he’d still have had other options to call on before he had to do it himself. In those days a fertile couple with limited birth control options could produce a baby every 18 months, and also in those days growing children were expected to work as hard as their parents. I’m sure there’d have been some robust sons to chop wood. In those days also (I know from the stories of my grandparents in the 1920’s onwards) that itinerant workers were extremely common, staying for as little a day to chop a pile of wood for a decent meal and maybe a place to sleep overnight.

I think the fact that chopping wood is mentioned in the way it is means that it’s significant in Virgil’s post war life in a way it wasn’t before, and that’s because he now does it out of necessity in a way that he didn’t have to before. Before the war he may have had slaves to do it (and the mention in the song could be a subtle hint that he had been a slave owner), but its mention doesn’t mean that he did have.

I have no idea whether my post brings up any new points or whether it makes any sense at all, but thank you for reading it to the end. BTW I luv chopping wood, I also find it very therapeutic:)

Entered at Mon Jan 27 14:38:25 CET 2003 from mcha-aj093.taconic.net (205.231.150.93)

Lil

Entered at Mon Jan 27 14:26:28 CET 2003 from (81.22.68.177)

Empty Now

What can we add more interesting than what’s already said about Virgil Caine. Sometimes people here-in get the art of expressing my concern better than i can do. I’m focusing on the fact that Levon Helm lives TNTDODD when singing it (i read below something like that). I posted before about my nuisance on trying to identify the Caine archetype
In the actual sense, that means that every time I listenned to the song, I saw Levon chopping wood, i listened to Joan Baez singing TNTDODD (after the GB debate), and I saw Levon chopping wood again, with a lot of exageration, i also saw Levon chopping wood in Italian language. That’s my true problem.
I was wrong when investigating in the Jesse James direction, I fear i am still in the fault line :-)

Entered at Mon Jan 27 12:36:03 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

jerry

Ed...Thanks for sharing that picture of you and Rick, I wasn't yet a fan when that picture was taken so I appreiate it when you longtime fans share tales of meeting up with these guy's, whats really cool is that Ive never heard a negative fan experiance when meeting any members of the Band...

Pat...The Virgil thread has been interesting, but you lost me in your last paragraph when you seem to admit that if there was a chance that Virgil owned slaves the most he would have owned would of been two vs. the higher numbers on a plantation, it seems like your saying Virgil not being a rich plantation owner and only owning two slaves is acceptable, whats the differance if he owned two slaves or twenty he still would have been a slave owner...

Entered at Mon Jan 27 11:37:47 CET 2003 from dialup-0687.dublin.iol.ie (193.203.146.175)

Hank

Subject: The People Were Singing......

Great "Dixie" Thread........

When I play solo or duo gigs here in Ireland and Irish Bars in New York/USA, I often get asked by boozed-up punters to play a "rebel song".....

There's tons of anti-Brit rebel songs to play......" Come out ye Black and Tans" " The Men Behind The Wire" blah, blah, blah......

What I usually do is announce that "I'm gonna play a rebel song".........

.....and then I say "This song is about a war that killed more Irishmen than any other war"....

that usually shuts 'em up and they're listening now.......

I then proceed to play the intro of TNTDODD and sing it out.......

Works a treat every time........by the end of it they're all "Na-Na-Na-Naaing" away as if I freed The Six Counties of Ulster and convinced Gerry Adams and Ian Paisely to walk hand-in-hand down the road..........

Rebel songs!......on a good nite, I'll segue into "Blind Willie McTell".......Now, boyo, there's a coupla Rebel songs for ya...........

When things get really bad, and the crowd is baying for blood, I'll usually play Bob Dylans 'Hurricane"......... drunk guys in pubs really dig that song..........

By the by, anyone seen them latest pictures of Bob with Jessica Lange?...... Dude's got straight BLONDE Hair and a Woolly Cap!

........ Am standing at my favourite wall writing WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?............

Entered at Mon Jan 27 10:13:24 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Sam: Thanks

The Second question: The Russian Tsar is called Peter the Great, exactly like our Pete, I really wished someone else posted the answer. Never enough of expressing my admiration toward Mr Viney

Entered at Mon Jan 27 08:48:45 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ed Voci

Subject: Jan the Man

Jan: I just saw that you pulled up Nancy's post from 1999. How nice. Real sweet of you. Thanks so much. You really are something. I have this image of you sitting in and never leaving a tiny dark room somewhere in icy cold Norway with snow up to the windows, bundled up in a blanket, sipping tea and getting warmth in both hands from the cup, and the glow from a computer screen lighting up your face. If I'm wrong, DON'T TELL ME. edwardvoci@aol.com

Entered at Mon Jan 27 08:30:25 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ed Voci

Subject: What Might Be The Last Photo Taken of Rick Danko

Charlie Young, Bayou Sam and "Dankoists" everywhere: Bayou Sam knows some of this already and I am grateful to him for counseling me to put the photo up. In an earlier post I talked about how Rick graciously accepted and said he would consider the tape of a song my wife, Gina, and I had put together and a few days later getting word that he had passed. A few days after Rick passed a friend of mine (Nancy Gerrity, who is cropped out of the photo cuz I didn't have her permission to include her) posted a remembrance about Rick. Nancy had gone with me to the two Chicago/Deerefield shows and in her post described how fortunate we had been to enjoy and be moved by Rick's great voice and his kindness to us. I had not looked at this GB a single time from 1999 until only a few weeks ago (and what a few weeks it's been). What can I say. Rick's leaving us affected me. I feel a little weird saying this in front of you all, but that's the fact, jack. Still, there's something more to say about the photo.

On that Saturday night in December of '99, Rick recognized us from the Friday night show (Nancy is a platinum blond and so am I, well, sort of, as you can see; and we sat right up front) and waived us over as Nick Tremulis and others helped him down from the stage. We were stunned that he recognized us and called us over and saddened at his poor physical condition. He was sweating heavily, red in the face, obese and had that white creamy saliva at the corners of his mouth. We talked about the show, my and Gina's song that I wanted him to try out, and the current trip he was on with Prof. Louie appearing on radio shows throughout the Midwest. He said he needed to catch his breath and would see us a bit later. We waited, but sure enough he slowly hobbled out. By that time the place was mostly empty,but a few of the faithful were still there. He talked spiritedly to other fans, signed autographs, lit a cigarette and again turned his attention to us. He said he was "real tired" and wanted to sit down, which he did. We sensed he was not well and wanted him to get some rest. We just asked if he would mind posing for a photo before we took off. He said, "Sure would!". I handed my camera to someone and I stood beside him as he was too weak to get up from his chair. Then, all of a sudden, his hand grabbed my jacket, pulled me down--not gently--and he squeezed his chubby face up against mine. He made some corny crack about two guys shouldn't get uptight about feeling warm and cozy like, "Aawwwww, c'mon, pal." What a night. Nancy and I said our goodbyes, gave our thanks and wished him well. We drove the long way home in a heavy rain reminiscing about the two shows we'd seen that weekend, the many others we had seen over the years, how much we loved Rick's voice and how good he had sounded and played in both shows that weekend. (Nancy and I had met and began our friendship at The Band's show the week after Richard had passed away.)

I worried out loud that night that we'd never see Rick or hear his fabulous voice again. But, I was and remain comforted knowing that Rick Danko was Rick Danko to the end,"...like a hero in a story...".

Entered at Mon Jan 27 06:22:18 CET 2003 from 1cust103.tnt1.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.135.103)

Charlie Young

Both that photo from Ed and the words with it are very moving and bring back memories to those of us fortunate to have met Rick Danko. Thanks, Ed--and thanks to you, Jan.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 06:09:06 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Glad to see you decided to submit that photo Ed. I was wondering.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 05:44:44 CET 2003 from dialup-65.56.130.176.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.56.130.176)

Pat Brennan

I certainly did reference the recent work that studied the secession agents and their slavery-defense argument for secession. As I said, I don't think this enters into the TNTDODD discussion. Again, my sense is that the song divorces Virgil from the slavery issue and boils it down to the home-defense side of things, which made guys like Jonathan Taplin stop and take notice.

I suppose there is one more thing that could be said. If Virgil did own slaves, we all agree it wouldn't be in the plantation numbers category. So our hero owns, let's say, two slaves. I can assure you, on an antebellum small farm in Tennessee, a farmer who owns two slaves would still be out there chopping wood.

Great thread.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 05:06:39 CET 2003 from hvc-24-169-149-224.hvc.rr.com (24.169.149.224)

TBear

Subject: Band 5/4/94

Hey now... free cd bootleg fans: there's a free tree of the Band live in Tokyo 94, happening at the Neil Young CD Tree site. It's a cool place for collector's of liberated bootleg tunes. Join your fellow collectors and sign up. If you've never done cd tree before, click on the link and check it out. I hear it's a dandy. Peace - TB

Entered at Mon Jan 27 04:57:38 CET 2003 from dialup-63.210.123.153.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net (63.210.123.153)

JQ

Subject: Those of us that would like to be able to articulate how we feel about The Band more better

Mr P Viney - I just read the post by Dr Benway. Please don't be put off by that. I find your point of view, along with the regulars that post here daily, to be completely engaging & educational. This is a great site; it reminds me of a local pub sometimes. Don't quit. Who was that dick anyway?

Entered at Mon Jan 27 02:50:10 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ben Pike

PV, it is the Monteray Pop performance that has Simon has the odd Brit accent, and he is very high too or a greater actor than he ever showed in "One Trick Pony." To me it's a reflection of Simon's burning ambition, if Surf had suddenly gotten to be the biggest thing, Paul and Artie would have been hanging ten on the cover of "Bookends." Which of course, is no reflection on his monster talent. Again, "You're The One" was a hudge bomb and can be picked up easily now for five bucks, a great bargin.

Listening to the Sandy Denny box as I write: two unsung gems: "After Halloween" "By The Time It Gets Dark."

Entered at Mon Jan 27 02:21:06 CET 2003 from cache-kno-hsi.cableinet.co.uk (62.30.0.2)

Al Edge

Subject: Whistling Dixie

Tomorrow I'll be posting a lengthy diatribe. It will explain why I've not been posting of late. At the same time, by virtue of its inordinate length in relation to the relative triviality of its content, it will perhaps also illustrate, amongst other things, the dangers and folly inherent in taking these sort of forums far more seriously than they merit or than is healthy for the average purported adult. I ask you to please bear with it - and me - when I do eventually complete it and put it up.

In the meantime, I'd like to express thanks to Ed Voci for this marvellous thread on Dixie - and to PV and PB in particular for their continued enlightening expertise on the intricacies of the song. Immense stuff fellas. Also not forgetting dear Empty Now for, I think, triggering the topic in the first place. Good on yer mate.

Dixie is clearly THE definitive Band song. Perhaps not everybody's favourite but surely the one most readily identifiable with them and indicative of their art.

As such it is surely always worthy of any exploration no matter if - somehow - it does happen to bore the pants off those who like to take their music more on face value without the need to delve. Such a tenet is, of course, fair enough, but for me Ed's exposition of the possible slavery connections together with the subsequent discourses have illuminated the GB as I've been backtracking this weekend.

Regarding my own perspective on it all, one part of me would definitely like the slavery link to be the case. After all, such ingenuity deserves some reward in respect of both the songwriting [if it is true] and more pertinently in Ed's unearthing of it :-o) [nice one Ed]. However, even faced by Ed's silver tongue I remain very much a fence sitter on this one. And, of course, as a born and bred Socialist a big part of me naturally leans towards Vergil as an ordinary hard working man fallen on hard times.

The fact remains that Ed could well be correct. I say this not least in the sense that it is hard to imagine the untold hours over many long months that Robbie - and the boys - put into this masterpiece without them incorporating at least some reference to the core issue of that era - the slavery heritage and tradition of Dixie. And such reference is certainly conspicuous by its absence elsewhere in the song.

Also in this connection we mustn't forget Richard's overt reference to slavery in his own earlier Big Pink masterpiece - 'We Can Talk' - in which he defiantly declares 'there's no need to slave...the whip is in the grave'. The Band for all their downhome ordinariness carried at least two poets who could evoke intellectual artistry to match the best and were clearly well versed in the doctine of slavery and its impositions on human rights.

In the light of all this, Ed's argument becomes mighty persuasive.

And yet...

Even with Ed's eloquence to entice us the lyrics in question do relate only very tenuously to slavery. I have to admit to finding it extremely difficult to envisage Vergil as anything other than an ordinary Southern working soul fallen on harder times than he desired. In a way, whilst the song possibly would be rendered more complete if Vergil's obscure lyrics were a paen to his fading heritage, it could also be said to tarnish somewhat our pure image of Vergil as this ordinary Joe from Tennessee.

Whatever The Band's intention their magnificent song as delivered by them alone surely remains without peer in popular music. Also Ed has unearthed a little cracker to keep all interested parties looking over their shoulder for the next revelation.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 00:44:00 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Empty Now = "you're"

Entered at Mon Jan 27 00:23:49 CET 2003 from 1cust249.tnt3.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.153.249)

Charlie Young

Subject: One More Thing...

Click the link for a great article about the guy who taught Keith Richards to play slide guitar and worked studio sessions for everyone from Paul Revere and the Raiders to Little Feat (back in the days before he discovered movie music and Cuba)--the brilliant Ry Cooder.

Entered at Mon Jan 27 00:13:57 CET 2003 from du-tele3-026.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.26)

Peter Viney

I have to say I’ve found Ed and Pat’s points stimulating and they make me listen to the song again … anyway, it comes down to Levon’s voice and persona and everything about his portrayal of Virgil says ‘honest working guy, not an exploiter of slaves”. And I’m a devout Robertsonian who would place Levon as (a) one of my all-time favourite music personalities (b) one of my three favourite singers (c) my favourite drummer (d) the writer of one of the most enjoyable rock memoirs. The point is that us Robertsonians love Levon, but not the feud against Robbie (if that makes sense).

On which, Butch mentions a real problem. I’ve wondered about how a club could advertise the Barnburners / Blues Band, and any too heavy mention of The Band would be unfair to those punters who turned up expecting Cripple Creek, but anyway if they ever get this far, which seems highly unlikely, I’ll travel anywhere in the UK to see them.

On spellin’ – I don’t think either Mrs Henry or me were really making a big deal about Dr Benway’s spellin errar. It’s just that if you’re going to put “Dr” in front of your name on a casual post about a rock band, you’re sitting up and begging to be knocked back for anything non-academic that follows. The internet is a fluency medium not an accuracy one (though courtesy to readers should include some thought about clarity). Not that I imagine that ‘Dr Benway’ is a real name. By the way, before hackles rise, I’m certainly NOT accusing the usual suspects in multiple name postings, because “wanker” is a quintessentially British expression, as is the teacher’s quoted ‘boy’ at the end of a sentence. A couple of years ago, a “Dr” of my acquaintance mentioned that I’d failed to address him as “Dr” on the envelope of my Xmas card. So he didn’t get one this year. Wanker.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 22:39:03 CET 2003 from 1cust243.tnt2.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.201.37.243)

Charlie Young

Subject: John Mayer

Ed Voci: yes, I saw that John Mayer feature and was very impressed. My daughter was an early fan of his music and got me to listening. She saw him play a very small venue at the local college last February, gave me an audience recording (which Mayer allows) and I wound up going to see him while I was on the road in Baltimore. Now his pop-oriented debut disc from Sony has hit the double platinum mark and he is nominated for the "Best New Artist" Grammy. I hope he can get back to his Stevie Ray Vaughn, Jimi Hendrix and Buddy Guy roots now that the high school girls are squealing for him, though.

Another John Mayer link to The Band is that another Berklee School of Music guy, Bruce Hornsby, has a guitarist in his band named Doug Derryberry who helped produce Mayer's debut disc. I think that John Mayer is in a league with Susan Tedeschi and the acoustic band called Eddie From Ohio as the most promising batch of young performers on the music scene today.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 22:31:25 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Brendan harkin

The Band, the best! Anybody know how to contact the boys? Email: Bharkin403@aol.com

Entered at Sun Jan 26 22:29:17 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ed Voci

Subject: Pat Brennan

Pat, we must have been writing and posting simultaneously (though I beat you to the "submit" button--you must be older than me!) so I don't believe I have the benefit of your thoughts on my last post that responded to Peter Viney. You've somewhat touched the points I raised, so don't feel obligated to respond, though I would be delighted if you did. One favor I do ask: please point to the sources on participation of slaveowners/non-slaveowners in the Civil War. Off-line is fine. On slavery as a driving point of secession, I thought it was you who referenced a work that reviewed communications/arguments in the South among the elite and that slavery was, indeed, the cause for the South (and made a comment that in war, most footsoldiers are propagandized into fighting for reasons far removed from the true reasons). In the North for sure, ending slavery was not the motive--in fact Lincoln wanted to guarantee the preservation of slavery where it existed in order to keep the Union whole. It was only when victory eluded the North that he turned to emancipation (and then, only in the South) and black Americans soldiers to turn the tide.

edwardvoci@aol.com

Entered at Sun Jan 26 22:28:30 CET 2003 from dialup-65.56.137.153.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.56.137.153)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Sun Jan 26 21:43:32 CET 2003 from dialup-65.56.137.153.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (65.56.137.153)

Pat Brennan

I think you have to realize that slavery as a cause of the war was not a bulletpoint arguement in the late 1960's. One of the salient facts of the rise of the Lost Cause in the 1880's is the implied agreement between North and South to closet the issues that caused the war and celebrate the bravery of the men who fought on both sides of the issues. Thus you have this sort of bland interpretation at the National Parks that emphasizes the military aspects of the war and glosses over the causes of the war. Of course, that is changing now as the NP's redefine their mission in this area. That's not to say many listeners who regarded slavery as a prime cause of the war weren't moved by TNTDODD because it placed them behind the eyes of someone who fought for reasons entirely other than slavery; witness Jonathan Taplin's take on the song. In a way, the song removes slavery from the equation, showing that Virgil fought for his family. And, as a final point, I'd say that Robertson would have worked slavery into the song in a more direct way if he intended it to be in there.

I do like the case you make. In a sense, it would work well in the present and it would be entirely within artistic license to adjust the song to reflect that POV. I just don't think it applies to Robertson's POV.

For the life of me, I can't understand the backhands people feel the urge to deliver when threads get a bit deep. If you don't like it, scroll on by. You seems capable of ignoring polite questions posted here, so why not extend yourself a bit.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 21:22:05 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Ed Voci

Subject: Peter Viney; a couple more points

1. If Virgil had slaves he would have had, as you acknoweledge, a small number of slaves. I'm clearly not arguing that he was a large plantation-type slaveholding of which there were many in the slave States. However, numerically small slaveholding was the dominant form of slavery in Tennessee and there was lots of it, not just "cases", as demonstrated by the statistics in my earlier post. As I also mentioned, the numer of slaves (20 or more) one held determined exemptions from compulsory military service in the Confederate Army. Therefore, the number of slaves owned was an important distinction (and a source of class friction--a part of Vigil's bitterness, certainly). Tennesse,though, was not a complete anomaly. There were non-slave holders and small slave holders loyal to the Union in Mississippi, the location of huge plantations and a staunch member of the Confederacy.

2. On the one hand you assert that Tennessee "was carefully chosen" because it was a loyalty-divided state, but on the other that "Robbie painted his picture of Virgil without thinking out for himself whether Virgil had a slave or not." The quote from the liner notes of the reissed "The Band" CD unequivocally establisheds that LH's collaboration on the song (Ah-ha! The Levonista in me emerges)put slavery and how it was viewed from the Southern standpoint very much on RR's mind (all the more true if he remembered it for liner notes thirty years later!). So, instead of having a lyric explicitly about Lincoln telling the South slavery was over (LH suggested deletion), the song finesses the demise of slavery from the Southern point of view with fantastic poetic beauty. I agree that LH's singing and personna bring a compelling, passionate and ineffable identification with Virgil Caine and no one would view LH as a slaveholder. But, without mention of slavery in some respect, the song has a gaping blindspot therefore a diminished meaning. Hey, I'll settle for a flawed masterpiece. I just don't think it has the flaw.

3. Nor am I arguing that there were "uprisings or mass migrationns" of ex-slaves in 1865. (Ex-slaves were certainly in motion and I recommend "Black Reconstruction in America" by W.E.B. BuBois and the novel "Freedom Road" by Howard Fast.) I merely stated that the celebrations of freedom by ex-slaves provide an apt role for black Americans in the song's chorus that refers to singing and bell ringing. Those interested should take a look at "The Shaping of Black America" by Lerone Bennett, Jr., the chapter entitled "Jubilee", pp.169-202, from which I quote:

" 'Hallelujah broke out,' said Felix Haywood, a nineteen-year old slave in Texas. 'Soldiers, all of a sudden, was everywhere--coming in bunches, crossing and walking and riding. Everyone was a-singing. We was all walking on golden clouds. Hallelujah!' Everybody, Haywood continued, 'went wild. We all felt like heroes, and nobody had made us that way but ourselves. We was free. Just like that we was free.' Just like that, the slaves moved into the cente rof their own history, RINGING FARM BELLS [emphasis added,EV], blowing cow horns, dancing, weeping, shouting for joy. In the village of Pamplin, Virginia, near Appomatox, the word was glory. 'Glory! Glory!' shouted Fannie Berrie. 'Yes, child, the Negroes are free, and when they knew that they were free they, oh baby! began to sing:

'Mammy, don't you cook no more,

You are free, you are free!

Rooster, don't you crow no more,

You are free, you are free!

Old hen, don't you lay no more eggs,

You free, you free' "

And and a lot of freed slaves stopped chopping wood, too.

edwardvoci@aol.com

Entered at Sun Jan 26 21:04:18 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Sam: No connection with the reccent posts, i just have some lack of memory problems. As a Beatles fan, remind me please, in the lyrics of "Working class hero" (John Lennon), is the verse

"They hate you if YOU'RE clever"
or
"They hate you if YOU ARE clever"

by the way, which Russian Tsar is qualified as "The Great"

Entered at Sun Jan 26 20:44:30 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

So those guys are really carrying on the Band tradition - they're fueding (or feuding - see next paragraph)..

I hate when people are looked down upon because they spell something wrong. When you do that you come across as a pompus egocentric paranoic prima-donna. Benway should not be referred to as an "idiot" because of spelling errors, but for the mean spirited, angry, jealous, stupid tirade directed at Peter.

Hey Joe - has Saturday been confirmed?

wipeout1960 at yahoo.com

Entered at Sun Jan 26 20:27:30 CET 2003 from ac95c66f.ipt.aol.com (172.149.198.111)

Rick S.

JWB at Towne Crier Saturday night: Butch, I couldn't have said it better. JWB opened as the Honky Tonk Gurus short acoustic set. Enjoyed Sid on the lap steel and Jimmy on dobro. "Remedy" and Randy's dedication to Warren Zevon, a great rendition of "Carmelita". These guys love to play and sing. Great ensemble playing and great solos by each of them. JWB did a new song, "Bucket of Soul" which I enjoyed. Albert had the ladies whooping it up during his theme song. This is one great live group.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 20:26:04 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Dave Z

Sorry to hear about that riff, butch, because I like both bands myself... and for different reasons... anyway, Levon & the Barnburners torched us at the Cabooze in Mpls a while back... and we loved the heat... burnin' fast and hot... so we are very thankful to you guys... for the midwest blazin'...

Entered at Sun Jan 26 20:23:07 CET 2003 from pcp02101159pcs.towson01.md.comcast.net (68.34.123.14)

Mike K

Subject: Garth Hudson

Hey everyone, Some friends/bandmates and I are planning on going up to Woodstock on March 8th to see Garth and his wife play at the Colony Cafe. I was wondering if anyone else was planning on going to the show. We are all huge fans of The Band and it is our first time seeing one of them perform and we would love to meet up with some ther fans who are planning on going and just talk music and enjoy the show. We are also planing on visiting the sights, such as Big Pink, ect. If anyone has any good info or places to check out and directions, please drop us a line. Kdawg@comcast.net Thanks for your help and hopefully we'll see some of you in March in Woodstock.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 19:30:41 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

butch

hey man,,,

we have done cross-country tours,,, & midwestern mini-tours, & Delta shows,,,& the southeastern coastal area, too, The Barn Burners have been fome Memphis to Moline,,,

as for Jimmy not touring the midwest,, he just doesnt wanna do it with Aaron,,,

him & rando still have a bitter taste due to some situations or whatever,,,& do NOT wanna tour or play with him,,,,

but Levon & the boys are going back to the delta in april or so,, & doin a buncha shows,,, i think,,,,

we try,, but a lot of club owners dont want a blues band where LH cant sing,, so frig em,,,,,

i hope this clears up some of it,,,

Entered at Sun Jan 26 19:01:42 CET 2003 from (81.22.68.80)

Empty Now

Enjoyed your reaction, I LOVE those who add to my one's appreciation of "Dixie"

Entered at Sun Jan 26 17:42:27 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Calvin

Butch, to follow up on what Peter asked, why doesn't anyone but the Crowmatix leave the NE part of the US? Prof. Louie mentioned in passing once that he has tried to talk Jim Weider into touring the Midwest once in a while. I took it to mean Jim doesn't want to do that. Why exactly do he and Levon feel that way? If it simply is a cost factor of travel and not having the fan base outside of their region I completely understand, but were jonesing out here for some Barnburners\Garth\Jim Weider Band shows.

I completely agree with whoever said they hope booze had nothing to do with Billy Joel's accident. For no other reason that to just shut the media up, every single article I read this morning on the accident highlighted Joel's recent substance abuse problem, even though there isnt a single fact to suggest this was anything more than a car sliding off the road during winter. Sometimes the media really bothers me.

I taught College Freshman English and I find myself making the Your\You Are mistake, unless I bother to proofread that is, which I'm afraid I usually don't do too much on my GB posts.

On a more musical note this weekend I picked up some Chris Hillman solo albums and the 2cd Souther, Hillman and Furay Album that have recently been released from Wounded Bird records. The recent GB comment of Chris Hillman being a very overlooked artist is dead on, I could really do without the J.D. Souther songs on the SHF album but otherwise it is tremendous stuff all around. Also on a whim I picked up a 2 CD set of the recordings of Blind Willie McCall. He isn't Robert Johnson, Barbacue Bob, Lighting Hopkins or some of my other favorites, but it isn't bad. His voice was perhaps a little too high for my liking as traditional Blues goes, I like em with a little more gravel in the throat, been there-done that quality to my Blues singers. Still, it is a legit Band reference.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 17:21:20 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Mrs. Henry

Subject: Dr. Benway

I assume that "Dr. Benway" is still in first grade as the poster hasn't learned the difference between "you're" (the contraction for "you are") and "your" (the possessive pronoun). This is typical grammatical ignorance among Internet idiots, however. God how I pity the poor English teachers of this generation.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 17:18:28 CET 2003 from du-tele3-079.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.79)

Peter Viney

I always enjoy your posts about the current stuff, Butch, and am glad every time they appear. But for some of us out here, the Jim Weider Band and Levon Helm Blues Band are virtually just local North-East bands nowadays, and for those of us in Europe, or most of North America or Asia, we can only read, and feel sorry we weren't there, but we've stopped living in the expectation of seeing them anymore, or even getting an album. So the old stuff has to satisfy us. We used to get a lot more stuff here from the West and South-West but it's drying up.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 17:06:21 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Ed Voci

Subject: John Mayer

I just got through watching the CBS Sunday Morning show (fast becoming the erudite version of VH1's "Behind The Music", recalling the piece last week on Chuck Leavell)and its piece on John Mayer. Opinions anybody?

Band links: Mayer was born north, but went south to "feel" the music rather than "study it". And where did he study it? The same prestigious Berklee School of Music in Boston also attended years ago by one "Mark L. Helm" (see p.230 of TWOF). Mayer's guitar hero is Buddy Guy who has a blues club in Chicago where Levon & the BB played in 2001.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 17:00:14 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

butch

Subject: today's music

I had the joy of seeing Jimmy Weider's band ;ast night,,,up in Pawling,,, the room was almost maxed out by showtime,,,

the fellas started out with an "acoustic" set with sid mcguiness on lap steel guitar,, he smoked the joint,,,,blistering but understated leads with Randos vocals backed by Al Rocksalt Rogers & weider himself,,,

Remedy, Blues Condition, a GREAT NEW VERSION of CARMELITA, ( the adam duritz's version ) Rando's vocal was right on the money,,as was Dan's piano & organ playing,,,,,powerful playing that underscores the rest , like Garth always did,, he's a keeper that Dan the Man,,,

Then it was time to strap on the Tele & Strat,,, & off they went,,, Deep Feeling, Deepest Cut,Soulful of Blues all strong songs,, done with confidence & taste,, as well as TALENT,,,

too bad there arent more Band fans cause these cats carry on the tradition,,,

the Weider Bands version of Life is a Carnival is true to their teachers yet in their own style -----------BRILLIANT !!!!!

next time you get tired of discussing the same old same old,, get out & go see these guys ,,,THEY ARE NOW,,, & VERY GOOD !!!!!!!!!!!

Nice Job Fellas !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Entered at Sun Jan 26 16:12:13 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

bob wigo

Lil, CNN is reporting this morning that Billy Joel has been released from the hospital. Though they are not specific as to his injuries, based on their report, he is ok.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 15:45:38 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Lil = according to the Long Island news channel Billy is in stable condition at Stony Brook University Med. Center. That's where they always airlift people to that have very serious injurys (injuries?). Not only do I hope he comes through OK, but I hope to God he wasn't drinking. It'll probably be coverd pretty heavy here because he's a local guy. I'll post anything new.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 14:36:13 CET 2003 from du-tele3-116.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.116)

Peter Viney

Dr Benway's doctorate is unlikely to be in English if he doesn't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're' but I assume it's just a typo as there are at least three equivalent typos / spelling errors in my post too. I don't think it adds anything to anyone's appreciation of Dixie - it happened to be a discussion with Ed and Pat on the historical background. To the right of your / you are browser there should be a scroll bar. It's pale blue in Entourage. Use it in future when you see my name. Or learn something about polite debate.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 13:08:00 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.195)

Dr Benway

Peter Viney: How can this crap you spout possibly add to anyone's appreciation of "Dixie"? You’re grade C- level Marcus-style extrapolating is grade A+ wanking off. I'm reminded of the line my first grade teacher used to use on students who had lots to say of little importance; "Do you like the sound of your own voice boy?"

Entered at Sun Jan 26 12:39:58 CET 2003 from mcha-af016.taconic.net (205.231.30.15)

Lil

Entered at Sun Jan 26 12:07:06 CET 2003 from du-tele3-076.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.76)

Peter Viney

Ed – it might be just you and me and Pat discussing this one – but I hope not! W.S. had best scroll by. The Weight painted different pictures for almost everyone, and while Dixie paints a more homogenuous image for most of us, a song is about the personal picture it gives to each of us. The pleasure of songs, like poetry is that the message is never clear or defined, but comes in shorter spells. In all probability Robbie painted his picture of Virgil without thinking out for himself whether Virgil had a slave or not. From the lyrics, we don’t know whether Virgil lived in west Tennessee or east Tennessee, but I assume the state was chosen carefully because it was a state where there was a division between large-scale slavery to the west and small farmers to the east, and it was a state with divided opinions. Of course, it might simply be that Tennessee has an internal balance in the sound of the word that makes it ideal for song lyrics (Tennessee Moon, Tennessee Waltz …). But if you imagined a languid Southern aristocrat forced out of the white mansion to chop wood in Louisiana, you wouldn’t have much sympathy. Arguing the numbers of slaves, still leaves a comparatively small number in the east in Tennessee. Virgil is a small self-reliant farmer- the evidence for that has not so much to do with Robbie’s lyric, and a lot to do with Levon’s accent, voice and the interpretation he gives it.

So what happened to most ex-slaves in 1865? There weren’t uprisings or mass migrations. People still had to tend the land and eat. There were cases in America where people held just one or two slaves (a feature of Greek and Roman slavery), but this wasn’t the dominant or distinctive feature of American / British Carribbean slavery. Having just been watching the slavery episodes in Nial Ferguson’s TV series “Empire”I’m reminded that the two distinctive features of “Anglo-Saxon” slavery were (a) it was on an industrial scale (b) the slave was seen as a chattel, and had the legal status of a chattel. In Latin American slavery the significant difference was a slave was a chattel only until they converted to Christianity whereupon they acquired human rights (though remaining a slave). The industrial scale is important- the first market for slaves were the Carribbean sugar islands. Initially (e.g.) Virginia could cope with its own agriculture by using British indentured servants. But in Jamaica the indentured servants died like flies, and the working conditions on sugar plantations were such that slavery was the solution. Cotton soon followed (at that time no one would have thought as the English speaking colonies in the New World as necessarily separate from each other).

So back to Virgil. If he’d been a slaveholder, it would have been one or two at most, and they would have had to keep farming to eat in 1865, and in most of these cases the ex-slaves stayed exactly where they’d been before. The main migration northwards was really from 50 years later. I don’t think Virgil (as sung by Levon) would have been unused to chopping wood- on a small self-reliant farm, the farmer worked in the field with the slaves. As I said in my article, having to chop wood wasn’t worthy of mention for a small farmer or sharecropper, it was just everyday necessity. So why was it there oin the song? If it’s worth saying, then Virgil Caine is doing it for money, cash, not to fill his own hearth with firewood. His independence as a farmer has been lost. He’s forced to hire himself out for wages to make ends meet, and poor wages at that, linking him to the farmer in King Harvest.

The extra bit came from Van Morrison’s recent song about his father, ‘Choppin’ Wood’ where it represents the daily grind of repetitive work. Did anyone see that documentary where three families had to live like pioneers in the West? I know the winters were far harsher, but chopping wood took them months of work. Then each family was judged on whether they had stockpiled enough wood to survive the winter. None of them had. Then I remember the Black Creek pioneer village reconstruction in Toronto. The MAIN occupation of early settlers was clearing trees and chopping wood. They had to clear the land to get title. They had to build supplies for cooking and heating throughout the winter. As the guide said, ‘Those early farmers hated trees.’

Entered at Sun Jan 26 09:59:16 CET 2003 from 12-250-168-155.client.attbi.com (12.250.168.155)

RockStar

Subject: Great Site

Thanks for all the hard work. Looks great

Entered at Sun Jan 26 02:46:53 CET 2003 from hse-toronto-ppp178127.sympatico.ca (64.229.81.224)

Mark Atkins

I meant Robbie Lane and The Disciples in my previous post where I wrote Ronnie Lane and The Disciples.

Ronnie Lane played bass for the Faces/Rod Stewart in the late '60's and early '70's.

Entered at Sun Jan 26 02:38:41 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Ed Voci

Subject: Empty Now (" Vuoto Adesso"); Charlie Young; Pat Brennan; RR's final word, not mine, on TNTDODD

Vuoto Adesso ("Empty Now"): Grazie mille per la sorpressa bella. Io ho metto la canta al mio cugino nell 'Italia. Certo, lui capisce Italiano molto bene (e megliore que me)e lui piace molto La Banda ("Ze Bend"). Ancora, grazie mille.

Charlie Young: How much for my copy of TWOF signed by LH, RD and Harry Dean Stanton? Foreget it brother, not in this lifetime at any price.

Pat Brennan: By the way, thanks for your earlier compliment. Now, on with the argument (with apologies to W.S. who should be off listening to music and not paying any attention to this silly old GB).

The key is the "I don't mind..." part of "I don't mind choppin' wood and I don't care if the money's no good." Virgil is expressing his experience with his transmorgryfied daily life. Money being "no good" is new to Virgil and worth mentioning. Chopping wood is also new to him and worth mentioning. These not-so-bad things, though, he can live with; but losing his brother is too much for him. He is measuring tolerable consequences of the war against the intolerable consequences. If he chopped wood before war, it would not make sense to mention it as a consequence of the war. If working for others, rather than self-sufficiency, was a consequence of war, this is a very awkward way, to say the least, of alluding to that concept. There is no connection to the concept; it simply is not there. Stooping to a menial level of work previously occupied by others, namely, slaves, gives more meaning and magnitude to losing his brother. It is a beautifully subtle and concise way of dealing with a huge notion, i.e. the end of slavery, (subtlety and conciseness, in word and music, being strengths for which The Band is reknown). Afterall, how could such a seminal song about the end of "Old" Dixie fail to make even one reference to "Old" Dixie's hallmark institution? It's pretty outrageous. On the other hand, for the song to say a whole lot or something explicit about slavery would put Virgil in a less sympathetic light, rob him of the obvious sympathy that the song intends to evoke from us. It would also run the risk of antagonizing southern listeners(Lynard Skynard's retort to Neil Yound in "Sweet Home Alabama"). When it comes to the potentially explosive topic of race in America, north or south, subtlety, avoidance, soft-peddling, "scrolling by", etc., often occurs (most recently, Scorcese's treatment of race in "Gangs of New York"). Finally, there is empiracle evidence to support my arguments. In the liner notes to the re-released brown "The Band" CD, RR is quoted:

"In one of the verses I mentioned something about Lincoln in there and Levon said 'You can't do that'. I said, 'Really? I was just reading this book...' From the Southern point of view it was "Hey, this is the guy that was tyring to tell us we can't have slaves.' So, Levon just wised me up to that. He was like, 'You've got to watch that because in the South that wouldn't necessarily go down well!' Then he explained to me the politics of that period in a Cracker fashion that I [understood]...". time...)

edwardvoci@aol.com

Entered at Sun Jan 26 00:45:37 CET 2003 from 1cust34.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.34)

Crabgrass

Subject: Ian Thomas

Just checked the cover for "Tears Are Not Enough" (see the "What's New?" page)which consists of signatures of Canadian musicians and noticed that Ian Thomas was amongst them, recalling that he is the brother of SCTV's Dave Thomas, and also that the Ian Thomas Band once guested on one of the SCTV NBC shows (Ian joined fellow hosers Bob & Doug McKenzie on their 2 minute Canadian content show "Great White North."). Anyway, fellow SCTV fans might want to check the above link for more info about Ian.

Entered at Sat Jan 25 23:58:32 CET 2003 from hse-toronto-ppp177954.sympatico.ca (64.229.81.51)

Mark Atkins

Subject: Uh-uh-uh and Leave Me Alone Single

It is interesting to note that Bill Munson's scans of the "Uh-uh-uh" and "Leave Me Alone" single (What's New section - January 24th) have the name Ronnie Lane written on them. I wonder if it belonged to Ronnie Lane of Ronnie Lane and The Disciples who became Ronnie Hawkin's band after Levon and The Hawks left.

The link above is Canoe Music's page for Ronnie Lane and The Disciples.

Entered at Sat Jan 25 22:03:47 CET 2003 from dial2a-228.i2eyenet.com (64.80.2.228)

Hi

The A&E show, "Breakfast with the Arts" featuring an hour devoted to NRBQ airs tomorrow morning (1/26) from 8:00 to 10:00 AM ET...includes testimonials from Keef, Homer Simpson, Peter Buck and Elvis Costello.

Entered at Sat Jan 25 21:19:37 CET 2003 from 1cust40.tnt1.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.135.40)

Charlie Young

Subject: Tolstoy to Tinkerbelle...

Wow--talk about multi-culturalism--where else could you read song lyrics in Italian, written by a Canadian about the American Civil War, posted by a guy from Algeria on a Web Site based in Norway? Whew! Did I miss any?

On Simon and Garfunkel: there is a great boot called "A Time of Innocence" taken from the soundboard tape of a November 1969 concert during the first S&G tour with a band. What a band it was, with Hal Blaine, Joe Osbourne, Larry Knechtel and Fred Carter, Jr. pushing the former folkies into some new territory. Great stuff.

I found a copy of Levon's book for sale at Bookfinder.com that includes not only his autograph, but Levon's home address and phone number as well (all this for $150.00). To me that sort of information shouldn't be for sale and I imagine that if Butch asked Levon he might agree.

Entered at Sat Jan 25 21:09:25 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.1)

Empty Now

Ed: After the monumental ruch of posts you generated (rarely seen in the GB) concerning Virgil Caine, civil war, slave owners, Jesse James....
I'm waiting for your feedback post like....
when i was a student after an exam waiting for the cotations
My manner to express my gratefulness of all the pleasure i got through all that stuff,..
Take this song (and make it better) found on the web:

LA NOTTE CHE BUTTARONO GIU' IL VECCHIO SUD

Il mio nome e Virgil Caine, lavoravo sul treno di Danville
Poi arrivo la cavalleria del generale Stoneman e strappo via i binari
Nell'inverno del `65 eravamo sfiniti e affamati
Dal 10 di maggio Richmond era caduta
E quel momento lì me lo ricordo piuttosto bene
La notte che buttarono giu il vecchio Sud, e le campane suonavano
La notte che buttarono giu il vecchio Sud, e la gente cantava
E cantava na na na na...
Tornato nel Tennessee con mia moglie, un giorno lei mi chiama
E mi dice presto Virgil vieni qui, sta passando Robert E. Lee
Adesso non mi interessa spacca- re la legna
E non mi importa neppure se questo denaro non vale piu niente
Prendi quello che serve e lascia lì il resto
Ma non avrebbero mai dovuto portarsi via cio che avevamo di piu caro
La notte che buttarono giu il vecchio Sud, e le campane suonava- no
La notte che buttarono giu il vecchio Sud, e la gente cantava
E cantava na na na na...
Come mio padre prima di me lavorero anch'io la terra
E come mio fratello maggiore che indosso la divi-sa dei ribelli
Aveva appena diciotto anni, era orgoglioso e corag-gioso
Quando uno Yankee l'ha mandato al creatore
E lo giuro suquesto sangue qui sotto ai miei piedi
Non si puo far resuscitareun Caine quando l'hai ammazzato
La notte che buttarono giu ilvecchio Sud
E le campane suonavano
La notte che buttarono giu il vecchio Sud
E la gente cantava
E cantava na na na na...

Entered at Sat Jan 25 20:28:57 CET 2003 from du-tele3-163.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.163)

Peter Viney

Simon & Garfunkel- Live from NYC 1967. Good recording, anyway! I like Ben’s line sub-Seeger folk to describe some of (but the huge difference in singing and playing ability makes that excusable, even for me). Yes, it was just before they got really good. I’d bought A Dangling Conversation as a single and used to think it hugely meaningful, and it had all those strings. In retrospect it’s toweringly pretentious in spite of the pretty tune (Couched in our indifference like shells upon a shore … And you read your Emily Dickinson and I my Robert Frost) and Paul Simon seems to have eradicated it from his history judging by later live shows. I hadn’t noticed the fake British banter, but his accent is definitely different to normal. I guess he’d just spent a year in the UK, and it shows. The introduction of Richard Corey was one I’d failed to notice - based on a poem by Edwin Arlington Robinson, who I loathed deeply when I had to study him.

On Paul Simon’s diction / accent – when I started teaching ESL I used to do a lot of language laboratory work, and in those days headphones were a bit of a novelty and students loved hearing songs through them. Someone had filled a drawer in the lab with open-reels of Paul Simon songs which were used to lighten up the lessons. Of all the many singers I ever used for teaching English, Paul Simon was always by far the clearest voice for learners. His diction is impeccable and his accent seems very transparent and easy to follow. There was never any competition. As to Paul’s best albums, I’d say Bookends and Graceland, with ‘Paul Simon’ rating very close indeed. The one everyone forgets is Live Rhymin’ with the Jesse Dixon Singers. I love it.

Entered at Sat Jan 25 20:24:41 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

JTull Fan

Subject: Everything Must Go

For my fellow Steely Dan fans out here, great news! May 6 is the release date of a new Steely Dan studio album, titled 'Everything Must Go'.

Entered at Sat Jan 25 18:20:25 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Subject: Garth

The latest issue of "Goldmine" magazine has an article on "secret weapons" in rock bands. It's about musicians who were/are in bands where they might be less noticed for their part in the band because there are other towering figures in the band.

Some of the people listed are Gene Clark/Chris Hillman, Dickey Betts, John Entwhistle, and George Harrison...........

Much to my surprise and delight, our own Garth Hudson is listed.

"Yet it was Garth Hudson who was the band's best musician, and it is he who usually added that something special that makes so many of The Band's song unique".

"His solo spotlights highlight many a Band concert, and when internal friction robbed the band of the camaraderie and all-for-one-spirit that helped make their initial recordings such classics, Hudson could still be counted on to keep thing fresh and interesting".

Of course, we all in the GB know this already, but it was nice to see it in print in such a big magazine. Way to go Garth.

Entered at Sat Jan 25 17:34:25 CET 2003 from 12-249-69-3.client.attbi.com (12.249.69.3)

Chris

Subject: Lyrics

Hey All: I've been watching the clip of Danko, Busey, and Butterfield on SNL. The above link is for Busey World, which confirms of course that Gary is crazy. Apart from that I am wondering if anyone knows the lyrics to Stay All Night (stay a little longer) or knows where I might find them. I'd like to introduce it to my band as a nice straight up rock cover. Any help will be appreciated.

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Ben Pike

Simon and Garfunkel/ Live From New York City, 1967

This set from Jan of 1967 shows S and G still with a foot and a half in sub Seeger folk; posed to cash in on the summer of love; they would sound great at Monteray in between Paul Simon's excruciating stoned, fake british banter.

We get two pretty bad cival rights songs("He Was My Brother", and "A Church Is Burning"), ponderous "Sounds Of Silence" numbers "Richard Cory" and "A Most Peculiar Man", along with the rightfully forgotten "You Don't Know Where Your Intrests Lie". This tune sounds on the way to becoming a disaster on par with "We've Got A Groovy Thing Goin Baby", a song the Monkees have every right to laugh at. It was.

A long story revolves around the photo session for there first album, mared apparently when some obsence graffiti showed up in the photo. Guess they couldn't airbrush everything out in those days. It led to another mediocre song "A Poem On The Underground Wall."

Yes, real stardom and their best work were still around the corner for S and G. It is interesting in those days the crowd waited to applaud the HITS, in this case the best songs like "Homeward Bound" "Feeling Groovy" and "The Sounds Of Silence." "America" "Mrs. Robenson" "The Boxer" were still to come, Simon's will to improve that would lead him to his best album, the Artie free "Paul Simon." "A Hazy Shade Of Winter" is here to illustrate they would even get a little better at Rock.

It is interesting here to see them hedging their bets; avoiding the POP stigma (They site "Dangling Conversation" as there favorite(!), well, it's a nice melody) while inching towards the top fourty with new abandon. "For Emily" is still a great guilty pleasure, and again, damn pretty.

Entered at Sat Jan 25 14:18:59 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

It may be not evident at the first view, this is related to my recent previous posts

A great Orchestra leader (i dont tell his name) said:
"To succeed your interpretation, before playing a partition you must feel the prime intention of the composer. Examlpe, when you read the partition of Mazurka of Frederic Chopin, you understand that George Sand is somewhere ubder the piano"

Entered at Sat Jan 25 13:11:38 CET 2003 from m123-mp1.cvx1-b.swa.dial.ntli.net (213.105.232.123)

rich

Subject: jesse james and the movies

this is an old chestnut but worth thinking about in the light of recent postings.off the top of my head without consulting books or the net,i can think of about 5 or 6 films on the jesse james story.(i bet theres loads more) the tyrone power version which spawned the sequel,the return of frank james( im sure the latter was one of the earliest examples of 'the sequel' idea). the great northfield minnesotta raid.im sure johnny cash and kris kristofferson and willie nelson have done one. my own fav. for the no 1 jesse james film has to be walter hill's the long riders.all those great acting brothers together with the great david carradine stealing the show as cole younger,awsome! for the record levon would have made a great jesse james in the movies.peace.rich

Entered at Sat Jan 25 04:17:47 CET 2003 from 1cust147.tnt3.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.153.147)

Charlie Young

Subject: Those Scholastic Rock Bio Paperbacks...

Bill & Bumbles: it took me a while to dig them out, but I did find a few of those old Scholastic Book Fair rock'n'roll paperbacks. The one with the piece about The Band ("Fillmore East and West") brought back some memories, as did the one titled "Inside Pop," featuring John Sebastian on the cover. I checked my favorite used book site on the Internet, Bookfinder.com, and saw that most of these books are pretty readily available in the five to ten dollar range.

Bud Scoppa's 1971 book about the Byrds, however, is another story. Bookfinder lists a few copies ranging from around $45 up to one priced at $250.

It's hard to tell if all of these were published internationally, but the Scholastic offices were listed as New York, Toronto, London, Auckland and Sydney at the time.

Entered at Sat Jan 25 03:27:08 CET 2003 from 1cust23.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.23)

Bob D.

Subject: Civil War

Hey, Bandheads! Been followin' your recent discussion of the Civil War -- think you will like my new music video "Cross The Green Mountain" from the new Civil War film, "Gods And Generals" debutin' between 5:15 and 5:45pm ET/PT on TNT January 26. Don't miss it!

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Dave the Phone Guy

I wish now I had saved those canceled show tickets, but I always needed money back then.Tickets back in the 70's probably were under twenty dollars.

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Norbert

Subject: Elizabeth from ny

welcome!

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Bumbles

Subject: P. Longhair

B_WIGO: Glad to hear you’re enjoying the Professor Longhair discs. When I mentioned them the other day I wasn’t sure they were both still in print. Since his death, it’s come to seem that every time Longhair sat down at a piano during the 1970s someone turned on a tape recorder. The result has been more Professor Longhair on disc than any sane person needs, most of it featuring live versions of the same 8 or 10 songs over & over, in poor audio quality, and at high import/bootleg prices. The other must-have late-period Longhair is “Crawfish Fiesta,” his final studio recording, which was released just days after his death. Definitely in print, it offers the added attraction of an entire disc’s worth of Dr. John—on guitar.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 20:36:58 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Dave tPG: Given BOA's appearance at the revived event, the thought "Jim Dandy to the rescue" is not inappropriate. Nor, if you took a pass, is "oh what a lucky man".

Peter V: Interesting, this Danville stuff. Around '73 there was a hilarious TV news satire on the new Global TV network, titled "Shhh ... It's The News". I remember one episode where actor Jack Duffy appeared as a stogie-chomping, Castro-lookalike leftist folksinger named Pete See-gar.

I've been wracking (racking?) my brain, trying to figure out why I know the JJ song so well. Even if it was in the movie, I would've seen that only once in the mid-'60s (on Elwy Yost's "Passport to Adventure"), so I suspect it must have appeared as incidental music on some sitcom - maybe Beverly Hillbillies?

Bumbles: I still have my copy or Hopkins' "Rock Story", which I've kept for the detailed history of the Buffalo Springfield, as remembered by the road manager. Although subsequent authors of most Young or Springfield books have seemed totally unaware of the book, I'm pleased to say that the book was used - with fair attribution - by the author of the excellent Young bio, "Shakey".

Peter V again: Atkinson, Danko and Ford did one LP, the liner notes to which note that Terry is Rick's brother. (Then snakishly hastens to add that this doesn't mean anything and that it's the music that matters.) That LP was remixed (with new drums/drummer on some cuts) and reissued - sans notes - as the first Bearfoot LP. Bearfoot did two more - the first of those, with "Molly", being first rate - though Atkinson and Danko were gone by the time the last one came out. By the way, the first LP has a song called "Mark Twain" that is rather Bandish in its reference to Mississippi river boats.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 20:35:07 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.241)

bob wigo

Not one birthday salutation here today for our old friend Neil Diamond. Maybe the good wishes will start appearing as soon as everyone returns from the restroom.

Happy Birthday Warren Zevon.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 20:24:15 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.241)

bob wigo

Subject: DtPG

Dave, this link's for you.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 20:07:14 CET 2003 from 56k-socal-07-33.dial.qnet.com (209.221.196.48)

Dave the Phone Guy

I had tickets for the very first Cal Jam at Ontario Motor Speedway.The line-up was The Band, Allman Bros., and the Grateful Dead.Same concert as Watkins Glen.The show was canceled and I got a refund.I was very disappointed at the time and never knew why this concert was canceled.Does anyone else remember this non-show? Ontario Motor Speedway as in Ontario,California.

Eventually the first Cal Jam came off and the headliners were Emerson, Lake, and Palmer,Black Oak Arkansas,etc.I skipped that one.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 19:46:52 CET 2003 from du-tele3-145.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.145)

Peter Viney

Elizabeth- thanks! There are now FOUR of us interested. I found that History in Song one too, with the quoted ‘Danville’ line. Then I found a group of bluegrass lyrics sites which come up with this as the basic lyric!

Jesse James was a boy who killed many a man
He robbed the Glendale train;
He stole from the rich and he gave to the poor
He'd a hand and a heart and a brain.
Poor Jesse had a wife to mourn for his life,
Three children, they were brave;
But that dirty little coward that shot Mr. Howard
Has laid poor Jesse in his grave.
So I’m sure that “Danville” is a mistranscription in the lyric books we looked at before,

Entered at Fri Jan 24 19:35:11 CET 2003 from node.64-52-67.213.ip.pgt.ebrb.net (64.52.67.213)

Elizabeth

In my post I forgot to say that the website Jesse James - History in Song does have the lyrics for a version containing the "dirty little coward that shot Mr. Howard" line. Be gentle, it's my first time.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 19:29:27 CET 2003 from node.64-52-67.213.ip.pgt.ebrb.net (64.52.67.213)

Elizabeth

Subject: Jesse James

To Peter Viney, there is a website www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/parton2/jesse1.html which I discovered doing a search on Jesse James. The search engine returned "James, Jesse History in Song. I would give you the link to the website but I am not that clever./n I am an avid lurker who has enjoyed your posts and I'm glad if this is helpful to you.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 19:27:24 CET 2003 from user-2inin48.dialup.mindspring.com (165.121.92.136)

Peter Stone Brown

Subject: re: loose ends

To my knowledge, Rick Danko was never involved with the Montgomeries, especially in terms of recording an album. Some guy from Ireland was however.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 19:24:12 CET 2003 from du-tele3-145.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.145)

Peter Viney

It gets worse- looking up the song Danville Girl which Guthrie recorded and all references are to … Pete Seeger

I was standing on the platform
Smoking a cheap cigar
Listening for that next freight train
To carry an empty car.

Well I got off at Danville
Got stuck on a Danville girl
You bet your life she's out of sight
She wore those Danville curls.
But as Guthrie recorded a song about trains and Danville, he could well be the one who inserted it into Jesse James! There will be more. Sorry!

Entered at Fri Jan 24 19:16:21 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.241)

Mr. Brennan

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Bumbles

Subject: Geography & Books

BILL: It had never occurred to me, but you’re right about Melanie & Patti Smith. And “Lay Down” wouldn’t be a bad cover for Patti. It must be a New Jersey thing. Melanie is from Long Branch, in Bumbles’ own Jersey Shore neighborhood, while Ms. Smith is from Glassboro, about 70 miles south. I’ve never heard of the Scholastic Fillmore book, but have one by Bud Scoppa on, of all people, the Blues Project, and wish I still had the same author’s Byrds book. In the U.S., Scholastic books were more for direct sale than libraries. A couple of times a year teachers would distribute catalogs, collect money over the next week or so, and a few weeks later, on what was always a big day, distribute the books. I was always astonished they published any rock titles at all.

C_YOUNG: I’m not familiar with the Pickering Dylan book, but I would certainly add Daniel Kramer’s Dylan photo-biography to that early shelf.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 18:26:09 CET 2003 from du-tele3-054.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.54)

Peter Viney

W.S. – you’ll have to indulge us on The Legend of Jesse James and the Danville train (by scrolling by). A few years ago, I did a cassette of outlaw songs for a friend who was writing on outlaw myths, and somewhere on it I had a version of The Legend of Jesse James including “the dirty rotten coward who shot Mr Howard” line, but I can’t find the version, and it’s driving me mad! Woody Guthrie also wrote a song called ‘Danville Girl’ which means a lot of songs about such a relatively obscure place! Anyway, I’m continuing to look, so my apologies, there will be more, because there are at least three of us who are interested! Empty Now and I are hoping to see Ed’s opera!

Entered at Fri Jan 24 18:25:17 CET 2003 from h-68-164-12-173.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.12.173)

Pat Brennan

The "commercial" area just outside the main gate to the concert area--not the parking area, mind you--was a bit scary. The usual deadhead beads and baubles set, very peaceful, and the lude/reds/smack salesmen, not so peaceful. But, apart from the occasional vomitter, the crowd itself was well behaved. Just really downed out as opposed to spacey. Does that make sense?

Concerning a Watkins Glen book, perhaps after my parents pass. They don't know I post here.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 17:48:18 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

WS Walcott: This is a serious job, i'm trying to provide some scenic-artifices to Mr Ed Vico who is presently mounting an opera on TNTDODD

Peter: Long I waited for your opinion. It was great. You mention a Guthrie web site, i reproduced the lyrics from a folk songbook, non authored, dated 1973.
Thanks for details, my concern was simply what visage placing on the Virgil Caine name, dont you think that someone in the JJ neighborhood has some Caine character ?
Tell me if i'm wrong, if i understood your post, the current lyrics of "The ballad of Jesse James" are inspired from TNTDODD, i'm proud cause i believed the inverse (i'm joking Pete)

Entered at Fri Jan 24 17:43:27 CET 2003 from 1cust43.tnt2.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.201.37.43)

Charlie Young

Subject: Bumbles, Books, Brennan and Berry...

Bumbles: I had that Nik Cohn "Rock from the Beginning" as well as "Rock Scene" by Robinson and Zwerling myself. I lived in Bruce Springsteen's Monmouth County for a couple of years back in that era, so maybe we were shopping at the same stores. There was a stapled, tabloid-sized book about Bob Dylan from that same period that was compiled by a guy named Stephen Pickering and published at the time of Dylan's 30th birthday. The original retail price was two bucks, but I saw a copy for sale from a New Jersey rare book dealer recently for over a hundred times that price.

Pat Brennan should write the book on the "real" Watkins Glen if the actual soundboard recordings are ever issued. Dennis McNally's recent book about the Grateful Dead included an interesting section about the Watkins Glen concert. It seems that the festival organizers wanted just three acts to perform and had signed Leon Russell to complete the bill with the Dead and the Allman Brothers. The Dead requested that The Band be the third act for the concert, so the promoters supposedly paid Leon NOT to play.

Peter: thanks for the history on The Band and Chuck Berry's "Deep Feeling" instrumental. That "Live at Loreley" DVD is not available in the US, but I looked it up on the Amazon UK site. The one review there claims that Richard Manuel died before Robbie left The Band...

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Bill

Bumbles: You mentioned Patti Smith. A couple of weeks ago I picked up a copy of Melanie's first LP at a thrift shop. I've always loved "Lay Down" and was sort of interested in seeing if I could stomach the rest of her material better than I could 30 years ago. The funny thing is, as soon as she started to recite the "Candles In The Rain" poem I realised how much she sounds like Patti Smith! To this non-NewYorker, they have the same accent and speak in the same husky way. And "Lay Down", which follows the poem seems similar - in structure and anthemic quality - to Patti's version of Springsteen's "Because The Night". Next someone'll be telling me that Patti's real surname is Safka!

Entered at Fri Jan 24 17:22:08 CET 2003 from pool-141-153-194-74.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.194.74)

Bumbles

Subject: Early Rock Lit/Crowds/'ludes

BILL: Your mention of “Rock Revolution” sent me on an unsuccessful search for my old copy. I did turn up something of a companion volume, though, also from 1971, Richard Robinson & Andy Zwerling’s “Rock Scene,” which has a brief, fairly useless section on the Band (“Country-Rock, Now Rock-Country”) that posits the following: “Many attributed this fullness of the group’s vocals to their Canadian background and accents.” As you probably know, Lenny Kaye, who wrote the Hammond piece in “Rock Revolution,” compiled and annotated “Nuggets” and has played guitar with Patti Smith for almost 30 years.

CHARLIE_YOUNG: We must have gone to different schools together, or at least had similar libraries. In addition to the Goldstein and Gabree, I’d add Jerry Hopkins’ “The Rock Story,” three titles compiled by Jonanthan Eisen, volumes I & II of “The Age of Rock” & “Twenty Minute Fandangos & Other Changes,” and Nik Cohn’s “Rock from the Beginning” to that early 70s shelf.

P_BRENNAN: Levon has noted that healthy Watkins Glen crowd more than once, and it always jolts me. I wasn’t at Watkins Glen, but my own impression of the rock audience circa 1973 corresponds to yours. And we always said “’luded out.”

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David Powell

Subject: Watkins Glen & beyond

By now it should be apparent to everyone that the only person who has any control or say so regarding The Band catalog, apart from Capitol, is Robbie Robertson. He has talked recently about preparing a new box set of material and one would hope that previously unreleased studio, as well as live, recordings will be included. Of primary concern for fans should be that this material is presented as recorded and not altered.

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Bill

Re Zappa, my own personal pet theory has always been that "Moving To Montana" is an 'answer song' to David Ackles' "American Gothic".

Entered at Fri Jan 24 16:36:13 CET 2003 from h-68-164-14-219.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.14.219)

Pat Brennan

I'm thinking that they didn't release the real Watkins Glen because, especially in comparison to RoA, it was pretty ragged. I recall the article Lee referenced, where Robertson said the tapes sounded good and that the audience was really in tune with the performers. Levon mentions the "healthfulness" of the audience in the Gritz interview. Personally, I never saw more a smacked-out, qualuded (is that a word?) mob in my life, myself included. The acid haze days of the late 60's-early 70's outdoor festivals had given way to a more downer-oriented experience.

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Pat Brennan

Entered at Fri Jan 24 15:19:29 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.241)

bob wigo

My thanks to Bumbles for his recommendations on a couple of terrific recordings from Professor Longhair. They arrived from Amazon a few days back and I am enjoying them immensely. I am always fascinated by the stylistic and geographical relationships of American music. Thoughts of Fats Domino, Dr. John, Little Feat, The Subdudes and many others. Hearing how the New Orleans style even brushes up against that old Texas swing is interesting as well.

I appreciate the suggestion Bumbles, as it has made for a really nice addition to my collection.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 14:51:09 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Fred

I thought it was Joe Walsh

Entered at Fri Jan 24 14:27:21 CET 2003 from stjhts18c017.nbnet.nb.ca (142.166.254.22)

WS Walcott

Okay, enough already about TNTDODD and Jesse James. Why must everyone analyze, inspect, and dissect everthing to death? Just enjoy the music. By the way, we all know Cole Younger was the real brains behind the James Gang anyway.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 13:58:40 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Lee

Robbie Robertson was interviewed in a British music paper c70s talking about the tapes sounding good. I have the article somewhere. Now in the 90s he was quoted as saying he only had a few reels/reel of quality recordings. I was in contact with Capitol/EMI in L.A. during the reissues with bonus tracks. I mentioned the story of Watkins Glen CD as an insider had told me about that recording after its release. The person in question at EMI said, 'I couldn't believe it when I heard about what the guys were doing with that project. Robbie now wants to delete that CD and possibly release a different live show.' Guys being the team who worked on the Cd release.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 12:25:23 CET 2003 from dialin-1741-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.7.217)

Gene

Anything in your research about Jesse and Frank James using morphine before robbing banks? :o)

Entered at Fri Jan 24 12:17:37 CET 2003 from abby1.revealed.net (208.16.227.192)

Mike D.

And...Mr. Pike, I don't belive for one minute that Zappa's prostate cancer was caused by smoking. That would be like saying a woman having breast cancer (in some cases men have contract it as well) is caused by smoking. Not quite accurate.

I forget who said it but I must agree that Zappa was a pretty smart guy. An atheist? I forgot about that one. Only Frank could come up with a song about raising a crop of dental floss called "Montana".

And what's this non-sense about airbrushing the cover of "Abbey Road"?

Entered at Fri Jan 24 11:36:07 CET 2003 from du-tele3-124.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.124)

Peter Viney

TNTDODD / Jesse James & the Danville train – Had Levon & Robbie’s trip to the Woodstock library revealed nothing but May 10th (which was tenuous anyway) & the moderately obscure General Stoneman? This is bizarre. The “Danville” text quoted by Empty Now is on the web, as “original version” linked off the Woody Guthrie site and is from: (Woody Guthrie completely rewrote the words in his version, so forget that)

“Composite text from a variety of traditional sources as reprinted in Irwin Silber, Songs of the Great American West, New York, NY, 1967, pp. 254-255.

And it does indeed say Danville train in the first verse e – then Glendale train in every other verse. The James-Younger gang robbed five trains, all in Missouri and Kansas, and though they robbed the great-sounding Iron Mountain Railroad and the Chicago & Rock Island Line (for that all important skiffle link) they were never associated with the Danville train, or East Tennessee. The song “Jesse James” exists in about forty versions and the tune is infectious. Notice that the version posted is historically accurate in most other details. The words vary greatly, and I checked Ry Cooder on the Long Ryders OST because Ry Cooder is meticulous about old songs (he doesn’t have the dirty rotten coward verse either- which is the most memorable, I think). Ry sings UNION train, which is what it was in my memory and which makes sense. The “guerilla against the union” myth is sustained. The question is, can anyone produce a version of the Songs of the Great American West book printed in 1967, or a version of the song recorded before 1969 weith the Danville words? This is puzzling, and I’d like to eliminate a typo when transcribing it onto the web, because I assume that’s what it is. Whoever typed out the original song for the Guthrie site is probably well-aware of The Band song and it’s an easy slip. Danville makes no sense in the context of the Jesse James song. But if it was always there, than Robbie and Levon were BOTH bullshitting about their careful and dutiful research, I suspect!

I’ll come back to the slavery one later (better do SOME work today). I think Virgil was in East Tennessee, and not a slaveholder. See the recent Van Morrison “Choppin’ Wood” in which choppin’ wood references “daily routine".

Entered at Fri Jan 24 11:34:18 CET 2003 from (212.31.242.117)

Empty Now

Entered at Fri Jan 24 11:19:00 CET 2003 from (212.31.242.117)

Empty Now

David: Thank you very much for those informations, (sometimes i feel like you answer before i ask some question)

For those who are interested by “The Ballad of Jesse James”, here is the complete song. It is sung under a classic western tune 4:4, G-C, G-C-F-C

Ed: The space in the GB is so precious, I guess by posting the complete lyrics, you will find a small place for JJ and his good fellows in your opera

Jesse James was a lad that killed many a man
He robbed the Danville train
He stole from the rich and he gave to the poor
He'd a hand and a heart and a brain

Poor Jesse had a wife to mourn for his life
Three children, they were brave
But the dirty little coward that shot Mr. Howard
Has laid Jesse James in his grave

It was Robert Ford, that dirty little coward
I wonder how he does feel
For he ate of Jesse's bread and he slept in Jesse's bed
Then he laid poor Jesse in his grave

Jesse was a man, a friend to the poor
He'd never see a man suffer pain
And with his brother Frank, he robbed the Chicago bank
And stopped the Glendale train

It was on a Wednesday night and the moon was shining bright
They robbed the Glendale train
And the people they did say for many miles away
It was robbed by Frank and Jesse James

lt was his brother Frank that robbed the Gallatin bank
And carried the money from the town
lt was in this very place that they had a little race
For they shot Captain Sheets to the ground

They went to the crossing not very far from there
And there they did the same
With the agent on his knees, he delivered up the keys
To the outlaws, Frank and Jesse James

It was on Saturday night and Jesse was at home
Talking with his family brave
Robert Ford came along like a thief in the night
And laid poor Jesse in his grave

The people held their breath when they heard of Jesse's death
And wondered how he ever came to die
It was one of the gang called little Robert Ford
He shot poor Jesse on the sly

Jesse went to rest with his hand on his breast
The devil will be upon his knee
He was born one day in the county of Clay
And he came from a solitary race

This song was made by Billy Gashade
As soon as the news did arrive
He said there was no man with the law in his hand
Who could take Jesse James when alive

Entered at Fri Jan 24 09:57:33 CET 2003 from du-tele3-003.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.3)

Peter Viney

The 90s Band tended to do either "Deep feeling" or "Many Rivers to Cross" as a live instrumental showcase for Jim Weider. It was usually either / or in the set. The "official release" version is on the Live at Loreley DVD- the original Chuck Berry was the B side of the first single Levon ever bought according to one interview. It's on loads of tapes though. The Chuck Berry original has two versions with the tapes played at different speed- Deep feeling and Blue feeling, but The Band call theirs Deep feeling!

Entered at Fri Jan 24 07:44:15 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ed Voci

Subject: Pat Brennan; Wigo-rama Civil War link; slaves in Tennessee

Wigo: Indeed, that Civil War link is facinating, deep and sprinkled with lots of bells and whistles. I found it very helpful in locating information to counter Pat Brennan's assertion that "there were not a whole lot of slaveowners" in Virgil Caine's home state of Tennessee.

According to the Wigo-rama Civil War link, during the "Late Unpleasantness", as people in that neck of the woods refer to the Civil War, I also learned, Tennessee had at least 135,000 slaves and about 850,000 whites. In the nine eastern-most counties (out of 85 counties total, everyone of which had a slave population), there were about 4,000 slaves. I mention the nine eastern counties because of Pat's point that loyalty to the Union was more prevalent in that region (although owning slaves and being pro-Union were not mutually exclusive)and he places the Caines there. Most of the Tennessee slaveowners held relatively small numbers of slaves. For example, 3,779 slaveowners held between 10-14 slaves, 1,623 slaveowners held 20-29 slaves, 643 slaveowners held 30-39 slaves, and so on. There were no statistics that I could find about slaveowners with fewer than 10 slaves and understandly so because the Confederacy exempted from military service those owning 20 or more slaves and undoubtedly other pre-War privileges were keyed to that number. Thus, it was important for the authorities to keep records about who owned just above and just below the 20 slave mark. It's significant that this privilege of the wealthier classes antagonized some lower class slaveholding whites to the point where some remained loyal to the Union, or would not not support or even resisted the Confederacy. It accounts for Virgil's bitterness toward the "they" who "should never have taken the very best." Class struggle is not always black and white.

So, there's a good chance that Virgil Caine chopped wood in the winter of '65 because he no longer had slaves to do it for him. Also, while Virgil had been off tending to the Confederacy's military infrastruture (i.e. the Danville train which Maj. Stoneman thought important enough to raid repeatedly)it would make sense that there were slaves chopping wood back at the Caine homestead. His work on the train was probably compulsory military duty which indicates that he was one of the typical Tennessee slaveholders who owned fewer than 20 slaves.

Whether or not Virgil owned slaves, the singing and bell ringing of "the people" that Virgil heard or imagined may very well have been that of the 135,000 former Tennessee slaves celebrating their freedom. Like Gen. Lee, who passed by the Caine's land, Virgil may have thought slavery was wrong (although Lee thought slavery was immoral, he did own slaves). Ultimately, Virgil may have viewed emancipation as his own--or his dead brother's--redemption. From that standpoint, in the midst of Dixie's death throws, the chorus of TNTDODD would have Virgil bearing witness to a liberated people's jubilation as it rings out in the distance while he chops his own wood--work he "don't mind" doin'.

A final note: as a foot soldier in the Levonista army, I would be remiss if I failed to point out that Robertson County, Tennessee held about 2,500 slaves. :-) edwardvoci@aol.com

P.S. Susan in Champaign, please check my numbers.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 06:29:39 CET 2003 from syr-66-66-46-205.twcny.rr.com (66.66.46.205)

Dr Pepper

Subject: Cork City

I cannot believe that Britain's Foreign Secretary is the guy from Wichita that offered me a hit off his joint at Giants Stadium when Donna Jean came out to join Willie right before the Dead played with Billy wearing a cast. Bashful, did you catch that?

Entered at Fri Jan 24 06:09:04 CET 2003 from 64-80-53-159-access.surferz.net (64.80.53.159)

back so soon

Subject: was it really 21 years ago, today? already?

something that has always tickled me about these guys is how much they genuinely respect one another's talent. i remember rick talking about levon's singing once -- making it clear that he felt levon was the better lead singer, while insistent about being the only one who could legitimately harmonize with levon. (this was after richard's death.)

i sure do miss rick. everything about him.

since i'm in such a cryptic mood today, i'll add that i will probably always remember -- and miss -- the magical healing powers of the jacuzzi, the eggeteria, the leather and lace ... eggcetera, eggcetera, eggcetera.

hey, you bet i'm real. people around me kept being told that i was imagining it too, though. seems like perhaps someone was running interference, maybe? or is that just paranoia on my part? (if a lot of this post doesn't make sense to you, don't worry. it's not supposed to, unless you're "in the know." as it were.)

and speaking of heaven and hell, try mark twain's "letters from the earth" if you want some marvelous descriptions of what makes the very idea of heaven positively ghastly. what with this cold snap here in ny, and to paraphrase one of his many quotables, the first thing those of us who arrive in hell are likely to comment on is the improved climate...

take care, guys. see you around -- at the grill, mayhap.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 04:14:36 CET 2003 from 1cust218.tnt1.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.135.218)

Charlie Young

As Columbo would say,"just one more thing..."

A friend who knows that I collect old books gave me a 1962 hardcover copy of the classic Antoine De Saint-Exupery's "The Little Prince" this week. The unusual thing about it is that it is in our webmaster's native language. Now I need to take some lessons in Norwegian so I can read my copy of "Den Lille Prinsen."

Andy R: it's nice to see you posting again. I think that there is video of the Blue Jeans Bash at the C-SPAN archives. Do you have audio?

Entered at Fri Jan 24 04:05:49 CET 2003 from 1cust218.tnt1.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.135.218)

Charlie Young

Subject: Random Rambling...

Once again, Crabby is funny as Hell.

I remember that "Rock Revolution" book. It was on my shelf along with Richard Goldstein's "Poetry of Rock" and John Gabree's "World of Rock" back in my high school days. It was all revolutionary stuff and a lot more intesting than most of what Paul Simon called "the crap I learned in high school."

Didn't Jimmy James of the Blue Flames wind up becoming better known as Jimi Hendrix? I'll bet that John Hammond, Jr. could write one hell of a book. I have a signed copy of the one his father wrote.

Peter: when did The Band record "Deep Feeling" by Chuck Berry?

Bob Wigo: that Civil War site you linked really is amazing.

Entered at Fri Jan 24 03:56:14 CET 2003 from aca27cb0.ipt.aol.com (172.162.124.176)

Andy R.

Subject: Blue Jeans Bash

I can answer some questions regarding the "Blue Jeans Bash" because it was one of the last Band gigs that I was involved.

Held at the National Historical Museum in Washington Dc for the 1992 Clinton Inaug. I was responsible for all the travel and accomodations arrangements. Bill Clinton was supposed to show up, but never made it.

Recorded by Pyramid Records, the small Chattanooga Tenn. label that released the Jericho album, the performances were judged not up to par for release, plus getting the releases probably for all the artists performing was a big stumbling block I'm sure.

Featuring The Band, the Cate Brothers Band, Dickie Betts from the Allman Brothers Band, Dr. John, I believe Ronnie Hawkins and or his daughter and/or his son ( or both), I'm a little hazy on the details, plus Bob Dylan, with John Simon conducting and acting the MC. I will have to check the tapes to see who I have left out.

Attending the performance..the Governor of Arkansas , Don "Superchicken" Tyson (of Tyson Chicken), Levon's dear friend and old Clinton roomate Mr. Paul Berry and many many other old and dear friends from near and far.

Highlights I remember (kind of tounge-in-cheek):Don Johnson and Melanie Grirrith's rendition of "Stormy Monday", and John Simon introducing Dylan while Bob was still sitting on the toilet!!!!! After a few minutes he made it up to the stage and gave his usual unusual Bob Dylan performance.

I will try to look through my Band stuff to find some more specifics if I can Anyone else out there in GBland have any other recollections of the "Blue Jeans Bash"?

All the best folks.

Andybr67@AOL

Entered at Fri Jan 24 02:59:52 CET 2003 from 1cust59.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.59)

Crabgrass

Subject: Visions of Heaven and Hell

I think I'd rather be in Hell with Zappa and Matt Groening. God would probably keep making Dylan sing that crap from his Jesus albums all the time which would quickly get on my nerves!! And He'd most likely relegate The Band to playing "Promised Land" and "Daniel and the Sacred Harp" over and over again.

Hendrix would be down with us I'm sure! Also, with this protracted cold spell we've been having here in NYC I almost can't wait to get there!!

Entered at Fri Jan 24 01:41:53 CET 2003 from ppp65.a1-1.56k.execulink.com (209.239.1.65)

Paul Godfrey

Subject: P.Viney, Levon - Richard

Peter....in any conversation or interview I have done with Levon...he has 'always' maintained that "Richard was our lead singer" paulg

Entered at Fri Jan 24 01:00:42 CET 2003 from 209.236.161.20.cnjnet.com (209.236.161.20)

Mikey Lenahan

Subject: Still Howlin For Hubert

I couldn't of said Better, Butch. I was about 10 degrees below ZERO last night in NYC and about a thousand degrees hotter in the belly of BB Kings blues club. Butch, you are right about saying that LEVON owned the club last night. His playing was HOTTER then ever and the band was right on. The crowd went wild for the boss man each and every time he hit those drums. Every band that hit the stage last night were unbelievable. Shemekia Copeland melted the house. I can't believe that such a small woman could bring the house down like that. As always....It was a pleasure to meet up with the GREAT Butch Denner. Hope to post some photos of the show this week. Peace

Entered at Thu Jan 23 23:56:39 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

"The night is young and we're sitting midst the cramped confines of the Cafe Au Go Go, tailing the end of Bleecker Street before it winds its way east out of New York's Greenwich Village. John Hammond has just left the stage, the sound of his harmonica still pressed against the bare brick walls of the club, and his Hawks are starting to clear the rows of amplifiers to make room for the next performer. The loudspeaker announces some mumbled mention of a special guest, over between sets at the Cafe Wha, give him a big hand and will you welcome ... Jimmy James and the Blue Flame!"

Entered at Thu Jan 23 23:26:38 CET 2003 from dial2a-73.i2eyenet.com (64.80.2.73)

Hi

Yes there were 3 lead singers but Richard and Levon sang the same amount of tunes with Rick one less until around 1971 when Rick started to sing an equal amount of tunes.

I remember reading an interview with Rundgren where he was complaining about the Stage Fright sessions ....saying it would go on for hours where they would make up riffs in their heads and then no one could play them..implying it drove him crazy.

Another ancient rumor was that Rick Danko was helping the Montgomeries make an album, around '69. The recent Jon Gershen quote about the Band and head games jumped out at me. But who knows what it means? Maybe Peter Stone Brown would. His brother Tony was in the Montgomeries.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 23:01:47 CET 2003 from (204.101.153.2)

Mike Nomad

Entered at Thu Jan 23 22:45:23 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

butch

Last Night ( wednesday ) @ BB KINGS in NYC,,,,,The Blues came out to take care of one of their own,,,,

MR HUBERT SUMLIN !!!!!!

Levon, Jimmy Vivino, David Johanssen, Mike Merritt,HUBERT, & David Maxwell made up the WOLF tribute band & man did they cook,,,,,,,

with Jimmy V doing the MC honors,,, he shuffled players on & off the stage, perfectly,,,Pat O'Shea from Levon's Barn Burners, stole the show with his tasty licks,,,& Ann Rabson spelled david maxwell on piano for a couple & she was cookin too,,

Shemekia Copeland did a few & broke down during one of her Late Daddy's tunes ( Johnny Copeland )

Bob Margolin,, one of ( & the 1st white guitarist ) Muddy Water's guys,, is in town to mix newly discovered Muddy Tapes,,,, & he sat in on a three or four & burned down anything that was left of BB's,,,,

But Levon, after getting a roaring ovation ( when introduced)from that hip NY blues crowd,,,tore it up , double drumming with Jimmy V's friend frankie, who idolised Levon's style,, & sounded like Randy Ciarlante's style,,,

other players joined in,, The Finns ( ? ),, Michael Hill Band,,,Jon Paris, Greg Piccolo on SAX, gave it a bluesy memphis feel,,,

we raised a ton of $$$$$$ for Hubert's medical expenses,,,& gave the old Master his due,, & he gave it all right back to us,,,,,,,,

Bless His Heart,,,, May he Live Forever,,,,,,,,,,,

oh BTW,,, did i say Levon OWNED the joint,,, all night,, on stage & off ??? heheheheh,,,,, i love it,,,,,,,

Entered at Thu Jan 23 22:43:25 CET 2003 from garco.cpe.newsouth.net (64.90.4.86)

Mike Carrico

Bob W - thanks for the link re the passing of Gertrude Janeway, the last known Union widow. I note from the article that Alberta Martin, the last known Confederate widow survives, alone in the twilight. Score one for Dixie...

Entered at Thu Jan 23 21:35:35 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-018castocp0486.dialsprint.net (63.187.177.232)

rollie

Turns out, Rudyard Kipling is responsible for the quote about cigars being " a smoke". I hope that cleared that up for everybody.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 21:34:46 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Whatever the historical inconsistencies, I suspect that Empty Now's onto something - at least as regards Danville and the laid-him-in-his-grave wording - though I don't know what it is. Just as 'cowboy' merges into the greater part of 19th century Americana in the minds of non-Americans, people like Robert E. Lee, Jessie James, Mark Twain, General Custer, Daniel Boone, Davy Crocket, Marshall Dillon and Pa Cartwright all tend to be viewed as teammates on that century's Team USA, no matter how ridiculous it may truly be if you spend any time thinking about it. It certainly was the case for me as a child, close to the US and growing up with US TV. Probably Robbie too, except that he got to visit at least some of the settings of his childhood fantasies while still not all that much older than a child.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 19:52:01 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.186)

bob wigo

Subject: Civil War Aficionados

Check out this site. Amazing !

Entered at Thu Jan 23 19:33:10 CET 2003 from du-tele3-110.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.110)

Peter Viney

Levon interview: Levon has always maintained that Richard was “our lead singer” which I think is a mix of respect for the dead, graciousness, love of his comrade and being self-deprecating. I wonder, looking at the oldest tapes how true it was. Levon seemed to take a fair share of leads. Rick certainly played more of a backing role, and perhaps came into his own with Dylan – I notice bits of Rick on the Dylan BTs more than Richard. I suspect that Levon is down-playing his own contribution because Richard took the powerful ballads while Levon did the R&B stuff, and I genuinely think he sees Richard as the lead singer. None of them could have lead The Weight or Dixie or Cripple Creek better than Levon, and if you look at their most famous tracks (add Rag Mama Rag as their biggest UK hit), then Levon would come over as the most prominent. Myself, I stick to their greatest attribute being that they had THREE lead singers of equal worth. And – if they’d ever got back together … none of them could have done ‘Somewhere Down the Crazy River’ as well as Robbie did. (Add Garth’s interjection on Young Blood!)

The other point I found interesting was that the comparative way of measuring bands was the ability to do Chuck Berry. It’s a good yardstick, because everyone did Chuck Berry from Buddy Holly to the Beach Boys to The Stones:

Levon

I'll tell you something that they never gave us credit: you can't tell how good The Band is, or not, when they're doing their own stuff. Same with The Beatles, or anybody else. When they're doing their own stuff, you can't tell how good they are or how good they ain't. You let both of us do a Chuck Berry tune--then you can tell how good the (two) bands are, can't you? So, that's what they never gave us credit for.

I’m not sure if he’s implying that they did Chuck Berry better than The Beatles. If he is, he’s being polite and reasonably circumspect. But if he is, I’d disagree with him on The Beatles. You can’t compare doing The Promised Land eleven years later than The Beatles did Roll Over Beethoven because there is a technology and experience gap. I don’t think The Band ever did Chuck Berry any better than The Beatles, nor any worse. I don’t think any of the aforementioned usually did Chuck Berry as well as Chuck Berry, especially when you play Chuck’s original versions of Nadine or No Particular Place To Go or Memphis Tennessee. Oh! The exception – The Band did Deep Feeling better than Chuck Berry had, and no doubt the Jim Weider Band continues to do so. Geoff & Maria Muldaur’s version of “Havana Moon” always beats Levon’s for me, and Chuck’s too. Buddy Holly’s ‘Brown Eyed Handsome Man’ would be my first choice version. And the Stones can have the prize for ‘Bye Bye Johnny.’

Entered at Thu Jan 23 19:31:40 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.186)

bob wigo

Subject: A Civil War Link

Entered at Thu Jan 23 19:26:22 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Subject: The Danville Train

Empty Now brings up some interesting points regarding the legend of Jesse James & how it might relate to TNTDODD. Perhaps Robertson was familiar with the Jesse James song. There is some historical significance, however, regarding the Richmond & Danville Railroad in Virginia. During the Civil War, following the fall of Richmond, Confederate President Jefferson Davis fled by train to Danville. From April 3-10, 1865, Danville became the temporary seat of the Confederate Government. To this day, some old-timers refer to Danville as the last capital of the Confederacy.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 19:00:32 CET 2003 from pool-141-153-194-74.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.194.74)

Bumbles

Subject: Shea Stadium

The Accents (see Ed Voci’s link below) seem to have opened for the Beatles in 1965. Shea Stadium was a year later, and the opening acts there (and on all of the shows on that final tour, I think) included the Ronettes, the Remains, and the Cyrkle, whose hit “Red Rubber Ball” was written by Paul Simon and produced—just to keep things Band-related—by John Simon.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 18:41:15 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.1)

Empty Now

Crabgrass: pardon twice, my last post was an instinctive reaction

David: I've learned more about the southern soul in your post than during all my life

Ed: Thanks for the informations concerning the non-connection between TNTDODD and "The ballad of Jessie James", and thanks for fixing my attention on some JJ related work in The Band experience. I take the chance to congratulate Mr Viney for his wonderful work

However, i'm still almsot at my starting position conserning this question of some backgrounds relating TBOJJ to TNTDODD. My first post was somewhat Telegraphic, i apologize on.

Long time I hesitate to submit some analytical views about TNTDODD. But now the occasion is given. I started from some almost evident cross references about the two songs

- A "Danville train" mentionned in both songs
- "a Yankee laid him in his grave" in TNTDODD, "Has laid poor Jessie in his grave" in TBOJJ
These two points being explicitely spelled in the songs

With some speculation, one can also make the connection:
-"raise a Caine back up" with the fact that JJ was shot in the back
- "Rebel stand" (there are many other terms for referring the Confederation) knowing that the term "rebels" was the more widely used to refer the group of JJ (after the war)
- A vague souvenir (i have some lack of memory) make me saying that JJ was born in a farmer's familly, and "worked the land"
it is almost amazing that this connection is never evoked relatively to the number and the evidence of the coincidences.

Perhaps are there some elements of response between the lines in the post of Mr Powell, i cant really remark

Entered at Thu Jan 23 17:52:54 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ed Voci

Subject: Rock and Opera; Danville correction

The Minneapolis Tribune (see link) reports that rock drummer Thomas Nystrom of the group The Accents, which opened for The Beatles at Shea Stadium in 1965, fulfilled a dream by conducting the Minnesota Orchestra to the "Triumphal March" in Verdi's "Aida". Nystrom is having a bad time with cancer. Correction: Danville IL is in east-central Illinois, closer to Indiana rather than Missouri. Thanks again, Susan.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 16:22:14 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

John W.

Kind of ironic to read John Lennon, in his letter to Todd Rundgren, use the phrase "So shoot me..."

See Link for news story regarding indictments in the Nigeria-based Internet Scam.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 15:34:42 CET 2003 from 1cust253.tnt4.williamsburg.va.da.uu.net (67.208.187.253)

Charlie Young

Subject: Crabby's Comment (An Atheist Thank God)

Yep, Crabster, Zappa was so anti-religion that he grabbed some significant space in a huge reference book titled "Who's Who in Hell." John Lennon, "Simpsons" creator Matt Groening and other great minds are there, but apparently Bob Dylan and his buddies in The Band are all bound for heavenly glory...

Entered at Thu Jan 23 15:27:46 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Calvin

I may be wrong here Rollo, but isnt that O'Henry?

Read the thread Toronto Craig. It was suggested by Crabby that Levon was being, I don't know, glorry hogging when he didn't say anything when the interviewer called him the leader and lead singer of the Band. Mostly because the 5 had always said there was no leader, they were equal contributors, and that RIchard was the lead singer. I said that I felt he was being to hard on Levon in that he had just said RIchard was the lead singer and he was probably just being gracious to the Interviewer.

I picked up some more CD's from WOunded Bird Records-some very nice Chris Hillman discs-someone was talking a few weeks back about being a completist. I was thinking on that with the Byrds last night, a man could spend a lifetime just tracking down all the official releases of the solo members.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 14:49:22 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-018castocp0457.dialsprint.net (63.187.177.203)

Rollie

....on the subject of smoking, one of the aforementioned said" a woman is just a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke!" OK ladies , easy here........

Entered at Thu Jan 23 14:04:00 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f00eff-cm014270105631.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.156.103.95)

Toronto Craig

Calvin- are you disputing that, to the public, Levon is the most recognizable lead singing voice from The Band? If so, I find that very difficult to understand. TC

Entered at Thu Jan 23 13:43:42 CET 2003 from host217-34-227-57.in-addr.btopenworld.com (217.34.227.57)

rich

Subject: a band live conundrum

during the mid 90's in the back pages of mojo magazine where they have the mail order cd sections,one of the cd's mentioned as soon to be available was the band,live at the blue jean bash. anyone know what this was all about.did this cd ever come out?could somebody out there put me out of my misery?

Entered at Thu Jan 23 07:17:32 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ben Pike

I believe Zappa's cancer very much WAS smoking related and he knocked it off as he was on the way out. Look, every addict will tell you THIER addiction is O.K., not like those other stupid people.

When did the Assosaition do "Life Is A Carnival?" Is it as good as Olvia Newton John's "In a Station?"

Hard to believe you don't enjoy SOME Stones, Pat. They have gotten away with putting out some junk that makes "Islands" look like the Brown Album, but they are hardly alone in that....Noticed a new live Guthrie tribute on Ani DeFranco's label features 2 or 3 new Springsteen does Woody covers. Only drawback is the presence of the tiresome fake liberal Tim Robbins.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 06:49:49 CET 2003 from 1cust133.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.133)

Crabgrass

Subject: Cigarettes

Zappa died from prostate cancer which I don't think is related to smoking. I'm not a big fan of his music but admire him as he was an intelligent guy and an atheist to boot!! (Not exactly a coincidence.) I read recently that he released some 50 albums during his recording career which is quite impressive.

I think air brushing out cigarettes from photos started about ten years back when the U.S. Postal Service issued a stamp honoring bluesman Robert Johnson and removed one from a classic photo which showed a cigarette dangling from his lips. Incidentally, I still have a few of Robbie without the cigarette if anyone wants one e-mailed to them. No doubt these will be worth a fortune some day.

djy15-at-hotmail.com

Entered at Thu Jan 23 06:41:06 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ed Voci

Subject: Fred; Garibaldi; Scorcese; cigars in New York

Fred: Scorcese should do the film on Garibaldi, not only to balance his mob-heavy portfolio, but also because of Garibaldi's connection to New York, Scorcese's stomping ground and favorite film setting. Garibaldi spent some exile time in New York and, at a differnt time, the Garibaldi Brigade was organized in New York as a unit of the Union Army (merely on the strength and charisma attached to the G-man's name and reputation which were well known and honored throughout the world, including among European and South American immigrants and exiles in New York in the 1860's).

Since this GB is dealing with tobacco and such, I'm obligated to mention that Garibaldi loved smoking cigars and that the current NYC mayor is having him posthumously prosecuted for same. :)

Any leads on locating that production from the 1980's would be appreciated. edwardvoci@aol.com

Entered at Thu Jan 23 05:40:07 CET 2003 from 1cust161.tnt1.williamsburg.va.da.uu.net (67.201.26.161)

Charlie Young

Subject: Butts Out & Rundgren With Ringo

A cigarette originally shown in a vintage Simon & Garfunkel photo was airbrushed out of Paul Simon's hand for the S & G boxed set a couple of years back, and the cover photo on the recent CD reissue of the Lovin' Spoonful's first album cropped the cigarette from Zal Yanovsky's hand. Frank Zappa called people who did that sort of stuff "the health police," but--ironically--Frank was an outspoken anti-drug guy who was a nicotine addict (and died from cancer).

That whole Lennon tirade about Todd Rundgren is interesting since John's dear friend Ringo Starr invited Todd to join his All-Starr Band for a while. Todd even turned up with a track or two on the recent DVD of highlights from Ringo's All-Starr Band tours.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 05:08:01 CET 2003 from (64.208.177.133)

Lars

Subject: Todd and The Band

Reading the gb and hearing about Todd Rundgren reminds me that he was interviewed in The Band's "Authorized Biography." In 1970 Todd went to Woodstock to be the engineer for their new "Stagefright" album. On the tape he seems (to me, at least) to be trying to pick his words carefully, as if he had ambivalent memories of those sessions in the old Woodstock Playhouse.

"The material...when they got around to playing it...you know. They certainly had rehearsed it, but I don't think they knew how to perform it. In some ways, they didn't know what they were going for."

I watched that part of the video tonight, so I could get the actual quote from Todd. Behind those sunglasses I could almost sense his mixed feelings, like he was trying to only think of something GOOD to say. I still don't know if the old story is true: did Todd say some disparaging remark about Garth, and then spend the next few minutes running for his life, around the studio, with a furious Levon Helm trying to catch him? If Levon wasn't wearing his cowboy boots I think he would have been faster and altered...history.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 05:00:39 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

I don't smoke myself, and I hate the smell of the smoke, but doing that to the Abbey Road cover is insane. Actually, there's a well known photo of The Beatles from very early on that I've seen that done on. It's the pic. where Ringo is sitting in a chair that's turned backwards - he's turned around facing the camera and the other Beatles are around him. Paul has a cigarette in that photo, but I've seen it redone withput the butt.

Of course, the collector in me thinks about what would happen to the value of the "cigarette" version of Abbey Road or better yet, they release the "non cigarette version" then The Beatles fight to stop it, making that version valuble. It's another Butcher Cover in the making.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 04:17:02 CET 2003 from dialup-67.28.25.196.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.28.25.196)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Thu Jan 23 03:33:03 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Fred

However I think the blame should lie with Crabby, who started this last year (or was it 2 years ago?) with those "doctored" photos of RR without the cigarette!

Ed Voci: I think there was a movie (or mini-series) done in the late 80s, a French-Italian coproduction, starring Franco Nero, about Giuseppe Garibaldi. You are right about some major studio/director doing a movie about GG. His life was colourful and eventful enough!! Unfortunately he wasn't a mafioso

Entered at Thu Jan 23 02:30:44 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

JTull Fan

Subject: Abbey Road and cigarrettes

Sheeeesh! First Bloomberg and the Stones & now this: it just came on the news that Paul McCartney's cigarette on the cover of Abbey Road is being brushed out without The Beatles' permission!

Entered at Thu Jan 23 02:24:21 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Calvin

One version of Hello It's me? I think not, Does not one else own Todd's landmark album WIth a Twist where he redid all his greatest hits Bossa Nova style? One of the wackiest CDs I've ever purchased by a recording artist of some significance.

And yes Crabby I did notice that Levon didnt say anything when he was called the leader and the Lead singer of the Band, but seriously, cant you chalk that up to just being gracious to the interviewer? I think Levon is off base of his criticism of Robby, but just as Levonist sometimes read alterior motives into Robbies moves-dont you think you are doing the same in this istance?

Entered at Thu Jan 23 02:05:04 CET 2003 from hicks202-157.optonline.net (167.206.203.157)

ZACK

The Last Hombres "REDEMPTION" CD with Levon on all tracks has just been re-released on Koch Records. If any of you devotees couldn't find a copy when it was out last year on an indie label, look again. The Hombres are playing in Huntington Station on Long Island on February 1 at Leavy's Last Stop.

Entered at Thu Jan 23 01:20:52 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-021castocp0026.dialsprint.net (65.178.80.26)

Jeffrey

Some folks just have it all goin on. What a life ......

Entered at Thu Jan 23 00:37:18 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

baby dave

Subject: Townhall-"The New Song" w/ Garth Hudson

Hello all, I am an avid reader of the guestbook...never posted anything before but wanted to tell you all about this album. Townhall is 5 piece band out of Philly that just released their first studio album called "The New Song". They're friends of mine, and are heavily influenced by The Band. In fact, they managed to get Garth to play accordion on the final track called "Tomorrow's Lullaby", which is my favorite track, in the words of Mavis Staples...beautiful. their website is townhallmusic.com, buy this album, they are the most original band you've heard in a long time

Entered at Wed Jan 22 23:50:52 CET 2003 from du-tele3-166.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.166)

Peter Viney

Didn't get home till 10, and off again at 7 a.m. so I'm speed reading what looks like a very good day for posts- especially Ed on Dixie. Quick note though, the Carly Simon Rolling Stone interview was 10 December 1981- I have it here.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 23:47:47 CET 2003 from host81-132-19-119.in-addr.btopenworld.com (81.132.19.119)

Lifeboy

Jan, I've just read What's new. That was my good lady Mel who gave you the poster, she says to thank you for the compliment.....mind you, I seem to recall you'd had a few...Ouch!

Entered at Wed Jan 22 22:50:20 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.119)

bob wigo

Entered at Wed Jan 22 22:32:04 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Crabby = I could be wrong. I wasn't correcting you. I just remember him going on in his book about the "suits" and how they were a large part of destroying The Band and what they were. It's been a few years since I read Levon' book, so maybe you're right and I need to read it again, which I wouldn't mind doing at all come to think of it.

BTW - I would have added this to my just posted post, but I posted it on top of Crabby's and didn't see it until I submitted my last post, prompting me to add this post....what the hell am I talking about?

Entered at Wed Jan 22 22:26:08 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Man, you guy's are quick. Now I don't have to look into that Lennon letter. Thanks for posting the whole thing and saving me the trouble.

That letter is so John Lennon. It's typical pure John...... That is so missed - by me anyway.

I wonder what Rundgren's thought's were after that (probably that he didn't want to go another round with the Walrus).

Entered at Wed Jan 22 22:18:42 CET 2003 from 1cust18.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.18)

Crabgrass

Subject: "Suits" & "Live"

Someone please refresh my memory as to how the "suits" screwed The Band rendering them unable to collaborate on writing songs.

Levon clearly mentions that you can hear the audience reaction on live recordings referring to a few live albums he enjoys so I don't see how he could be referring to recording live in a studio - doesn't make sense.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 22:13:48 CET 2003 from h00065ba4934c.swt.edu (147.26.111.48)

pehr

Dave Z: I'll get with ya soon. I need to figure out how to use my new digital camera and send jpegs. I'm somewhat digitally challenged, most of what i do with computers is reading the Band Guestbook! Please bear with me while I overcome!

I loved "Flame Warriors" I'll have to go back when I have more time to find myself. Thanks for the chuckle.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 22:11:09 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.119)

bob wigo

Entered at Wed Jan 22 21:59:01 CET 2003 from pool-141-153-194-74.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.194.74)

Bumbles

Subject: Multiple

P_VINEY: Your compendium of “lost” sessions is much appreciated. Two quick items: I don’t have Eric Von Schmidt’s “Living on the Trail” so I don’t know what information is provided in the notes, but I did see a press release that had the sessions taking place in 1971, not ’72. And the backing band on John Cale’s “Vintage Violence” isn’t quite Grinder’s Switch; the one change is usual suspect Harvey Brooks replacing the bassist from GS’s own album. Reading about additional “Moondog Matinee” outtakes made me think of Bobby Charles relating (in Colin Escott’s “Tattooed on their Tongues”) that the Band intended to include his “But I Do” (a 1961 hit he wrote for Clarence “Frogman” Henry) in the “Rock of Ages” shows, but dropped it from the set at his request. It would fit perfectly on MM, and they already knew the tune, so who knows?

RED BIRD: Although George Goldner did found (and later lose) the Rama, Gone, End, Tico, and Gee labels, Red Bird was Lieber & Stoller’s label. They brought Goldner on later and eventually sold out to him. One additional (secondary) Band link is to New Orleans vocalist Alvin Robinson, whose recordings on Red Bird and its subsidiaries may have been the label’s best. Robinson went on to tour and record with Dr. John in the early 70s. And Red Bird remains, to my knowledge, the only label ever to issue an lp by Adlai Stevenson, “The Wit and Wisdom of…,” a quickie posthumous compilation of excerpts from his speeches meant to capitalize on the great statesman and famously unsuccessful presidential candidate’s death, although I doubt it did.

B_WIGO: Superb photos. Get any video?

DIXIE: Drive Dixie down? Not while there’s a Republican in the White House (see link).

Entered at Wed Jan 22 21:53:55 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.1)

TODD ON JOHN

"John Lennon ain't no revolutionary. He's a f*cking idiot, man. Shouting about revolution and acting like an ass. It just makes people feel uncomfortable.

"All he really wants to do is get attention for himself, and if revolution gets him that attention, he'll get attention through revolution. Hitting a waitress in the Troubador. What kind of revolution is that?

"He's an important figure, sure. But so was Richard Nixon. Nixon was just like another generation's John Lennon. Someone who represented all sorts of ideals, but was out for himself underneath it all."

Entered at Wed Jan 22 21:38:44 CET 2003 from (61.240.164.196)

SODD RUNTLESTUNTLE

AN OPENED LETTUCE TO SODD RUNTLESTUNTLE. (from dr. winston o'boogie)

Couldn't resist adding a few "islands of truth" of my own, in answer to Turd Runtgreen's howl of hate (pain.)

Dear Todd,

I like you, and some of your work, including "I Saw The Light", which is not unlike "There's A Place" (Beatles), melody wise.

1) I have never claimed to be a revolutionary. But I am allowed to sing about anything I want! Right?

2) I never hit a waitress in the Troubador, I did act like an ass, I was too drunk. So shoot me!

3) I guess we're all looking for attention Rodd, do you really think I don't know how to get it, without "revolution?" I could dye my hair green and pink for a start!

4) I don't represent anyone but my SELF. It sounds like I represented something to you, or you wouldn't be so violent towards me. (Your dad perhaps?)

5) Yes Dodd, violence comes in mysterious ways it's wonders to perform, including verbal. But you'd know that kind of mind game, wouldn't you? Of course you would.

6) So the Nazz use to do "like heavy rock" then SUDDENLY a "light pretty ballad". How original!

7) Which gets me to the Beatles, "who had no other style than being the Beatles"!! That covers a lot of style man, including your own, TO DATE.....

Yes Godd, the one thing those Beatles did was to affect PEOPLES' MINDS. Maybe you need another fix?

Somebody played me your rock and roll pussy song, but I never noticed anything. i think that the real reason you're mad at me is cause I didn't know who you were at the Rainbow (L.A.) Remember that time you came in with Wolfman Jack? When I found out later, I was cursing cause I wanted to tell you how good you were. (I'd heard you on the radio.)

Anyway, However much you hurt me darling; I'll always love you,

J. L.

30th Sept. 1974

Entered at Wed Jan 22 21:27:32 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Empty Now = gee, my copies of "Let It Be" are The Beatles. I know what you're trying to say by the way - I just don't really agree.

Crabby = my take was that Levon was referring more to the record company, or "the suits" as he calls them, rather than Robbie.

I didn't realize that there were two versions of "Hello It's Me". Which one has that ending that I like where the song just sort of breaks down?

I'm just reminded of an incident from sometime in the 70's where Todd said something in print that somehow irked John Lennon. It moved Lennon enough to write an open letter to Rolling Stone mag that began with, "Dear Turd...." I'll have to go check out what that whole story was.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 20:38:12 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Subject: A Sense of the Land

Last evening I was reading the "relaunch issue" (Jan./Feb. 2003) of the resurrected OXFORD AMERICAN magazine. On page 109 there's an intriguing essay written by Hal Crowther, entitled "Listening to the Land -- Has Southern literature lost touch with its roots?". While I read, an old LP copy of "The Band" album provided an appropriate soundtrack, its well-worn grooves imbued with the timelessness of the music.

In his essay, Mr. Crowther evokes a fancy term of Greek origin, "autochthon", meaning "one held to have sprung from the ground he inhabits", as defined by Webster. Applying this concept to Southerners, Mr. Crowther explains:

"The Southland presses its ancient claims of land and blood. Alone among Americans, Southerners fought on their own soil, were defeated, humiliated, and abandoned to it while the rest of the country transformed itself with commerce and waves of immigration."

While reading these words, I couldn't help but think of Levon Helm's powerful performance of "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" with The Band. Although Robbie Robertson may have been guilty of some historical inaccuracies in writing the song, he certainly captured the spirit that sprung from the "land and blood" of Southerners.

As Mr. Robertson has expressed in interviews, he was inspired when he first travelled to the South to hook up with Ronnie Hawkins, Levon and the rest of the Hawks. He not only absorbed all the music he could, he also took in all the sights & sounds & even smells of place itself. Surely, his visit with Levon's family provided additional inspiration. One need only to listen to Levon singing, "Like my father before me, I will work the land", to hear a ring of truth of this sense of place.

Robertson explores this sense further in the song "King Harvest (Has Surely Come)", with its haunting opening lines, "Corn in the fields / Listen to the rice when the wind blows 'cross the water". Going beyond sight & sound, he even evokes the smell of the land itself with the lines "The smell of the leaves / from the magnolia trees in the meadow". Anyone who has ever experienced a hot, humid summer day in the South can attest to the fact that the scents of the vegetation and the soil itself hang heavy in the moist air.

In his essay Mr. Crowther expounds that:

"Like every endangered species, the autochthonous Southerner has suffered a devasting loss of habitat. The lines of communication between his land and his literature are breaking down."

"...Can any Southerner still speak for the earth in the old voice, the voice of Faulkner in 'The Bear', of Robert Penn Warren in 'Blackberry Winter'? If these hills are alive with stories, is anyone listening?"

While Mr. Crowther, in answer to his question, found hope in Wendell Berry's agrarian essays contained in "The Art of the Commonplace", I discovered a similiar reassurance within Mitch Lopate's GRITZ magazine interview with Levon Helm that Amanda was kind enough to post in the guestbook. In the interview, Levon speaks of his visits home:

"I go back to Arkansas two or three times a year. I just went there, and I'm due to go back again in a few weeks. I like to go down in the fall for the King Biscuit Blues Festival if I can, and I like to get home every spring to watch them cut the ground and get ready for planting season. I like to see that all go down if I can. If I get back in the fall for the blues festival, I get to watch them cut the rice, and the beans, and pick cotton -- I get to watch some of the harvest go down. That's fun to see."

When Mr. Lopate complimented Levon by saying "That's what you personify to us as an audience when we hear your music with the Band. We see those images." -- Levon responded by saying:

"Oh boy -- I appreciate that! It's a beautiful place, it's so stark -- it's goT beauty of it's own. As ugly as it can be in places, it's still beautiful. It's as flat as a pan, wet, swampy, mosquitoes, and so forth, but boy, there's nothing like a Delta sunset...or a Delta thunderstorm! You get close to the elements there. Growing up on a cotton farm, I got acquainted with them at an early age. I've spent my share of time in a stormhouse, listening to the wrath of God outside..."

Levon Helm is certainly one Southerner who has clearly not forgotten the ground from where he sprung. He remains in touch with his roots.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 20:29:11 CET 2003 from ric-sn-oprx-pxy2.firstunion.com (169.200.215.36)

Bones

Although it's easy to denounce Live At Watkins Glen for it's lack of authenticity, I was thrilled to get the release in 1995. Remember the important thing.....NEW BAND MUSIC! I agree that Capitol should have labeled the music correctly, but they were obviuosly looking for a hook in order to sell it, and Watkins Glen was a now legendary show by 1995.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 20:25:29 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

JTull Fan

Subject: Live or in the studio

In defense of Levon, today being 'live or not' has little to do with whether the music is 'performed' on stage or in the studio. Live to him may simply mean recording a band in the studio unencumbered by too much processing, remixing, overdubs etc. Witness his refusal to work on TLW overdubs. Today, unfortunately, just because you are watching a group perform on stage is no assurance all or part of it is really live anyway, ie. Millie Vanilli

Entered at Wed Jan 22 20:23:34 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ed Voci

Subject: Empty Now; Norbert; Fred; TNTDODD; Jesse James; Danville Train; La Traviata; Garibaldi

Empty Now: The Viney article with collected comments on TNTDODD is in the "Library" on this website. Virgil Caine is a fictional character and there are many comments about him in the article. I know of no connection between the Danville train in the Jesse James song you quoted and the Danville train in TNTDODD; I doubt that Jesse James robbed trains as far east as Tennessee, but I'm no JJ expert. There is a Danville, Illinois near the Missouri border and I believe JJ was based in Missouri. The other JJ connnection to De Bend ("The Band", for the humorless), is a concept recording, "The Legend of Jesse James", that Levon, as JJ, recorded with Emmylou Harris, Charlie Daniels, Paul Kennerly (who wrote most if not all the songs)Albert Lee and others. It is where "One More Shot", that Rick recorded with Fjeld and Anderson in 1994, came from. Both of these recordings are included in the Discography of this website. If we don't get a full fledged opera out of TNTDODD, maybe we can get a concept album, like The Legend of Jesse James. But, gee, who in the world could we get to do THAT?

Norbert: Coincidentally, I'm going to La Traviata this Saturday at the Chicago Lyric Opera. Your reference to the use at The Last Waltz of the San Francisco Opera's La Traviata set pieces underscores the grandeur of TLW and the story it told about The Band and 30 years of rock & roll.

Fred: Bravo, senore. Scorcese dove fare un film da Garibaldi. Garibaldi non era stato un mafioso o un membro della banda irlandese, ma lui era stato un l'uomo magnifico degno di cento film. Grazie, ciao.

edwardvoci@aol.com

Entered at Wed Jan 22 19:37:04 CET 2003 from (81.22.68.203)

Empty Now

Crabgrass: please read accurately my post titled “Agriculture-music connection”. I posted it yesterday at this time. It is clear and there’s no need to be a doctor to understand that i fell down under a sudden crisis after writing the first line. Poor Rick merits a better tribute. I failed dying, i should die soon when writing a post. That’s my way and the price to pay to render the band a tiny part of the huge happiness they gived me. Mercy. You are more fan than me, you understand.....may the GB survive me. Sorry Crabby!

Entered at Wed Jan 22 19:33:30 CET 2003 from h-69-3-221-44.chcgilgm.covad.net (69.3.221.44)

Pat Brennan

I guess its germane to this, but there weren't a whole lot of slave owners in Tennessee. In fact, a good part of Tennessee was loyal to the US, especially in the mountainous eastern counties, including Knoxville. Virgil has always struck me as a dirt farmer, but the possibility that he owned a few slaves is hard to deny out of hand.

I believe a bit of fun would be for each of us to visit Jack Straw/Rollie's website and decide which one each is.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 19:25:56 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

First, Paul G, there was a third Lucifer single, the b-side of which wasn't on the LP . Eugene will still play "Mother Nature" from time to time.

Second, thanks Peter V for the new version of your tapes piece. You can find the Gravenites info at Jim Colegrove's web-bio: http://www.nevessa.com/colegrove.html. Lightfoot did have pretty much the same band after "If You Could Read My Mind", but before that he had a smaller unit - generally just lead guitar and bass. David Rea then Red Shea on guitar (and Bruce Langhorne in the studio) and John Stockfish on bass are the names that come to mind. To correct what I told you earlier, the photo of Lightfoot, Hawkins and Grossman shows them walking outside a log building - sans snow. I'd have thought there'd be additional takes of "Between Trains", with Robbie trying to get more from Richard. There's likely some Band-with-Bauls stuff around too, as the Bauls' Big Pink LP liner notes talk about the two units jamming before our guys put down their instruments - at which point the Bauls commenced the performance of what was to be the LP (and a brilliant one at that). If Garth was the constant taper that he seems to have been, then he may well have recorded the earlier mass jam. The Red Bird stuff's interesting. If I'm not mistaken Lieber and Stoller are listed as the producers of the Hammond single. George Goldner was an early co-owner of Roulette I believe, as well as the founder of Red Bird that Levy elbowed out. He also owned the End label, which issued the odd Rockin' Ron and the Rebels 45 in '58 - "Kansas City" / "Cutting Out". I've always wondered if Hawkins has denied credit for that record for the same reasons that others have been shy, as you say, about their involvement with Levy sessions (or sessions with others while contracted to Levy). Carly Simon's interview with Rolling Stone was more like '71 than '81. Rick's on just one Young song, though Levon's on two.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 19:16:57 CET 2003 from (81.22.68.167)

Empty Now

Ed: Reading and re-reading your post, and having no answer until this moment for my (beginner’s) question about TNTDODD, i guess perhaps an answer can be found in the collection you mention, i need more complete references on where can i find this collection. -:)

Concerning the topic cited in subject, the nature of a rock band, there are some other interesting situations:

1 – “Let it be” is not a Beatles album, everybody knows that

2 – The famous hit of The Doors, “Light my fire” has been released after the death of Jim Morrison. The survivor members of the group completeley recomposed the song from voice samples of Jim Morrisson. The song has been produced under the label “The Doors” – An actual song from Paradise.

3 – Bryan Adams, (i love this singer, listenning to “Summer of 69” is each time a good trip) is occasionnally the leader of a group (composed by Michael Curry, Keith Scott, and a third guy i forgot the name) which is simply and legally named....”The Band”.....take good care when you are hurried in the supermarket.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 19:13:58 CET 2003 from 1cust190.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.190)

Crabgrass

Subject: Apologies / Levon Interview

It seems that some former GB posters would rather sit on the sidelines than return and apologize for their behavior!!

I just read that interview with Levon from "Gritz" and once again notice his obvious continuing bittnerness toward Robbie though he's not mentioned by name. ["We couldn't get along--we all knew that fairness was a bunch of shit. We all knew we were getting screwed, so we couldn't sit down and create no more music."]

Also, find it curious that Levon thinks live albums are the best when his blues band (who could have easily and inexpensively recorded and put one out on CD by now) hasn't bothered to do so. Instead, as reported here, they laid down a few studio tracks a while back and then never finished the job. And if Levon thinks live music is so great why does he seem to boast about there being so many recording studios in the Woodstock area? Odd. Also, odd that right after saying that Richard was the lead singer of The Band he thanks the interviewer for noting that most people consider him (Levon) the "leader and lead vocalist."

Well, I guess I'm the only one that noticed this stuff. Click the link to read or re-read the Gritz article.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 18:44:47 CET 2003 from nas1-billings-84.theglobalroad.com (65.121.127.84)

Jack Straw

Entered at Wed Jan 22 18:39:27 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-011castocp0092.dialsprint.net (63.187.104.92)

Rollie

Subject: Jack Straws link

Entered at Wed Jan 22 18:32:05 CET 2003 from nas1-billings-84.theglobalroad.com (65.121.127.84)

Jack Straw

I mean this post to be taken in a very lighthearted manner. After checking out the link, do any of these "warriors" remind anyone about anyone here, now or in the past? I know who I am, do you know who you are? Please, no assigning new nicknames. Things are going quite well as they are.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 17:44:05 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

JTull Fan

Entered at Wed Jan 22 17:11:57 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.119)

bob wigo

Entered at Wed Jan 22 17:10:43 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.119)

bob wigo

Subject: Chuck Leavell

A relly terrific interview with Chuck Leavell from the June 2000 issue of "Gritz" magazine.

Enjoy !

Entered at Wed Jan 22 16:53:25 CET 2003 from h-68-164-13-3.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.13.3)

Pat Brennan

JTullfan, Todd started experimenting with horns and strings way before Hello It's Me (redux). When he was in Nazz, he used a small orchestra on If That's The Way You Feel from the first album and A Beautiful Song from Nazz Nazz. The original Hello It's Me--which I think is far superior to the hit--made wonderful use of vibes. The hit version used the Brecker Brothers on horns as I recall.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 16:45:25 CET 2003 from h-68-164-13-3.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.13.3)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Wed Jan 22 16:42:04 CET 2003 from h-68-164-13-3.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.13.3)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Wed Jan 22 16:08:04 CET 2003 from ppp144.a1-1.56k.execulink.com (209.239.9.146)

Paul Godfrey

Subject: Bill...Lucifer!

Bill.....can I get in on you trivia question. What Lucifer song was released as a single. To my knowledge there were two:

1. Old Mother Nature

2.Blood Shot Eyes.

I introduced Old Mother Nature to Levon in 1977 in the hope he might record it. He really could have done it proud.

I still love Eugene's version and play it often.

shineonpaulg

Entered at Wed Jan 22 15:26:31 CET 2003 from host213-122-81-252.in-addr.btopenworld.com (213.122.81.252)

frank heatley

Entered at Wed Jan 22 15:10:20 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Calvin

This is just off the cuff JTull, but could you be listening to a live CD? For several years, especially with Utopia, Todd worked with a guy named Kasim Sulton-who nows is Meat Loaf's Bassist and musical director-who sounded very much like Todd. Whenever Todd released album's as Utopia Todd and Kasim shared lead vocal duties. Just a thought.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 14:33:29 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

JTull Fan

Subject: Todd Rundgren

On the way into the office this morning I was playing Todd Rundgren's 'Hello It's Me' on one of my cd mixes, and noticed two things: A very different vocal than on 'Bang the Drum All Day'. Is either one really Todd or did his band use different vocalists. Band link: I also appreciated the Chicago-like horn production on Hello, It's Me, but got to thinking that since Rundgren worked with the Band on Stagefright, perhaps it was more of a Rock Of Ages influence. Any thoughts? PS: Bob and Amanda: loved th recent contributions under What's New too.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 13:22:13 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Re - more - impressed, (i scroll the GB before consulting my e-mail box)

Amanda: Don't you see ?, every one here in the GB is waiting for your posts...there's some "empty holes" i can see between the posts (paraphrazing Neil Young)... One post por favor. I know the hard sensation we have just before posting, but once you post, you lose this sensation.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 13:14:49 CET 2003 from (195.193.67.178)

Norbert

Subject: La Traviata and the chandeliers from Gone With The Wind

linked-DVD-page

Entered at Wed Jan 22 13:06:29 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Ed: Fantastic!...I'm really...impressed....and i never doubted of the usefulness of the GB...

Just one naive question: Which is exactely the connection between TNTDODD lyrics and the "Ballad of Jessie James", an old southern folk song ?, who knows? -:)

"Jessie James was a lad who killed many a man
And robbed the Danville train
But a dirty little coward that shot Mr Howard
Has lad poor Jessie in the grave..."

Mr Howard is the nickname of Jessie James, who has been killed in the back.

Btw... Who is exactely the Virgil Caine of the lyrics ?

Thanks in advance...

Entered at Wed Jan 22 12:17:04 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Lee

Peter, I don't think Levon had anything to do with the release of Watkins Glen. Possibly Garth and Rick too. There was one ex-Band member signed to Capitol at the time though.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 12:03:23 CET 2003 from mcha-ab058.taconic.net (205.231.148.153)

Lil again

Entered at Wed Jan 22 12:01:38 CET 2003 from mcha-ab058.taconic.net (205.231.148.153)

Lil

Bob Wigo: Wonderful photos! What a way to spend New Years Eve, hm? Thanks for sharing!

Amanda: Loved the article on Levon. Thanks for sending it to Jan.

Kay (hi!): Loved the Keith Richards story. Being someone with a bizarre sense of humor (I once, with a little help, put every piece of my neighbors backyard furniture on their _roof_ while they were out shopping :-) I can really appreciate something like that.

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 09:08:15 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Fred

Entered at Wed Jan 22 09:02:17 CET 2003 from 1cust107.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (67.250.109.107)

Rollie

Absolutely Ed!

Entered at Wed Jan 22 08:00:00 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ed Voci

Subject: Happy Birthday Robert E. Lee: " The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down " and A Reconsideration of the Most Famous Chorus in Rock & Roll

Rollie's recollecting of the January 19th birthday of Robert E. Lee prompted me to listen to and review the lyrics of TNTDODD which in turn lead me to the Viney piece about the song. I had never read the article before. If you haven't read it, you should. It's a varied collection of thoughtful comments, interpretations and opinions on the song from a wide range of people, including bits and pieces from RR and LH, interlaced with Viney's comments. It is very worthwhile (especially while playing the song in the background) and it provoked a question in my mind about the song's chorus and also gave me an idea. Contributors gave two interpreations of the song's familar chorus that has "the people" singing and bells ringing (also, either interpretation could be a metaphor or an actual occurrence). One interpretation is that "the people" are the defeated Southerners sounding the death knell and dirge of the doomed Confederacy; the other interpretation is "the people" cebebrating the victory up North. There is, though, a third possibility that I'll get to in a second.

TNTDODD is so powerfully beautiful, is so laden with images, and so succinctly captures the essence of a defining historical moment in American history that when I listened to the song this time around, my minds' eye staged it as...are you ready...an opera. Now, stop laughing for a moment and think about how the components of the song could be developed into distinct scenes with arias and duets about the themes and images present in the song sung by the obvious cast of characters: Virgil Caine (tenor), Mrs. Caine (soprano), the young brother Caine (tenor--in a flash back death scene), Gen. Lee (baritone), and Col. Stoneman (bass-baritone). If you think Allen Toussaint's horn arrangements were moving, imagine how a classical orchestra--retaining the appropriate brass parts of course--would lend itself to the passion of the instrumentals and fills.

That brings us to the composition of the chorus. One of the standard interpretations might have a chorus of worn, bedraggled and defeated Confederate soldiers trudging among suffering Southerners. The other interpretation would have a chorus of jubilant and victorious Union soldiers parading through the streets of Washington D.C. to cheering crowds. Obviously, in an opera, there would be room for both which may have been the intent of the song all along. However, what these interpretations overlook, are "the people" whom Virgil may very well have observed (or perhaps imagined) celebrating the end of the war with singing and church bells ringing: the freed slaves of the South . The presence of and a role for black Americans in the song (and the opera) would certainly bring a wholeness to the work(s). As the current interpretations of the song stand, there is no role or mention of a pivotal social group in the Civil War, namely, enslaved black Americans. The only other possible and veiled reference to freed slaves in the song (an interpretation not found in the Viney article) is that Virgil must chop his own wood because he no longer owns a slave to do it for him. He "don't mind" this work, but he would rather not have to do it. Viney argued that wood chopping was such an everyday chore for self-sufficiency, it would only be mentioned in the song if the wood chopping Virgil "don't mind" was the wood chopping which economic necessity forced him to do for sale to others. I find this a little awkward. Furthermore, if Virgil was begrudgingly aware of the lack of slave power for chopping his wood, it would stand to reason that "the people" whom he had on his mind and whom he may have observed joyfully celebrating that dreadful night were the freed slaves. There is no such direct connection between the chorus and selling wood to make a living. So, the freed slaves chorus scenario is more attractive to me because, as I said, it gives the song a wholeness. Without it, there is an improbable blindspot in the song.

If the freed slaves chorus doesn't fit the song--though I think it really does--it sure would fit what could be a great American opera. For sentimental reasons I would insist upon an opening scene, in Italian, in which the great Italian patriot, military stategist and abolitionist Giuseppe Garibaldi in 1861 refuses Lincoln's invitation for a Union army command because Lincoln would not commit to freeing the slaves.

Rollie, you'd like such a scene, right?

edwardvoci at aol.com

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Ed voci

Subject: David Powell; Bones; who at Capitol signed The Band and Frank Sinatra

Neither of the names you, D. Powell and Bones, mentioned (i.e. Dave Dexter Jr., Artie Mogull) jog my poor memory about the guy who signed both The Band and Frank Sinatra to Capitol. Unless someone posts a definitive answer in a few days, I'll try to dig into the New Yorker archives. Dave Powell, apply to law school immediately...you have a future in drafting either entertainment contracts or prenuptual agreements.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 05:16:39 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Dave Z

Pehr: You gotta send me a jpeg of your art, buddy... I'm at dlzuck at zucks.com... awesome Levon interview!!!!!!!!!... You are gonna have fun Yesterday's News... be prepared to get totally blown away by the Hudsons show... I'm still trying to finagle a way to get there myself but this job economy is killing me right now... never say never though... Wigo, beeutifull Bearsville pics!!! Really... I've been watching that Hubert video... and he is so freakin' awesome... made me put away my Dead fixation for a moment... and dig out that old Chess Box today... and listen to Hidden Charms, over and over again... and Smoke Stack Lightnin'... him then back to Pig Pen, doing it too... powerful stuff... it's gonna be zero tomorrow then 30 degrees F by the weekend... I'm looking at it as an omen... things warmin' up... take care you all...

Entered at Wed Jan 22 04:43:52 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Bob Wigo = fantastic pics - great job.

Amanda = thanks for the Levon interview. It's kind of sad to hear him talk about the last part of The Band, and the "uncollarorative" time. I like when he talks drums though - being a drummer myself. I enjoyed when he went into "rim shots" - I immediately thought of 'Chest Fever". I just love the way he snaps those rim shot's on that song, especially at the beginning, and right after Garth's solo section where it comes back to the basic progression. Man, Levon just punishes that snare rim. Dynamite.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 04:44:09 CET 2003 from adsl-65-67-147-37.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net (65.67.147.37)

BERNIE

Subject: PROMOTIONAL CAMPAIGN

Hello, My name is Bernie. I'm writing from Propaganda Promotions, one of the fastest growing Street promotion companies in Texas. (visit http://www.propagandapromotions.com ). I have been assigned the task of visiting all the major nightclubs and concert venues in the Houston, Texas area. I would like to be able to give away any promotional item you give us out at these clubs and venues for FREE! The purpose for this FREE assistance is that my being hired full time after the summer of 2003 depends on how much interaction I get from the music and art industry in Houston. This is an opportunity for both of us. You will be promoted in many types of clubs and venues including: all aspects of Hip Hop, Rock and Latin. Please allow us this opportunity. Propaganda Promotions will keep you informed of my activity and will give you proof of distribution via digital photographs that I take as I promote. To verify my task you may call Propaganda Promotions Monday-Friday 11am-6pm Central Time at: 713-783-0024 ask for Adriana Ramirez Thank you very much. Bernie Hernandez Propaganda Promotions 8811 Westheimer Ste 206 Houston, Texas 77063 http://www.propagandapromotions

Entered at Wed Jan 22 03:44:33 CET 2003 from pcp02101159pcs.towson01.md.comcast.net (68.34.123.14)

Yesterday's News

Subject: Woodstock visit

Hey all. Our band, Yesterday's News, is planning on a trip to Woodstock to see Garth & Maud on March 8th. We're wondering if anyone else is going to be there, and would like to meet up with us. Also, if we could get some info on the sites to see (the adress of Big Pink & such)that would be awesome. We just want to see the sites of Woodstock, where everything went down before we were even born. If any one has any information please give us an email at great1jg@aol.com Thanks, hope to see some of you in March.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 03:26:35 CET 2003 from m198214176091.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.91)

Pehr

Great interview Amanda! I really got a kick out of Levon's favorite movie, thats one of mine too but I never really thought about it. I saw that the first time at a friend's tenth birthday party a hundred years ago and still remember howlin' for a week!

The cigar box lid story makes me wanna go get a snare drum and a box of cigars right now.

Great photos Bob W. the one of you at Big Pink is priceless!

I had a art show tonight. I did a painting of a piano player that is of Garth but starts to look a little like Richard a little too. anyway it went over kind of big, though I dont think that art crowd know whats up with that. I'll take a picture soon and send it in see what you all think.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 02:55:49 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

bob wigo

Subject: DP

Thanks David. I'm glad to share them knowing all the good folks here enjoy them.

It was an honor just to be in the same building with Hubert Sumlin. I was very pleased to hear the Stones had Mr. Sumlin join them last week at MSG. He knows just a little somethin' 'bout the blues. That's for certain.

Peace

Entered at Wed Jan 22 02:12:39 CET 2003 from dialin-1197-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.5.181)

Gene

Entered at Wed Jan 22 02:05:52 CET 2003 from dialin-1197-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.5.181)

Gene

1)'1919' album (1973), Lowell George, slide guitar

2)Lowell George produced John Starling, 'Long Time Gone' (1979); Emmylou Harris, vocals

3)Emmylou at TLW, 1976

Entered at Wed Jan 22 01:19:35 CET 2003 from adsl-63-203-121-193.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (63.203.121.193)

rockmcduck

hey you guys!!!! this is Dani.....this site rock you guys...i grew up listening to groups like the band and have loved them ever since i was a little kid...i hadn't thought about them in years though, then today i was listening to the soundtrack to the TV show CSI, and the robbie robertson song "unbound" came on, and talk about a flashback...i know it is a newer, solo work, but still....it was nice...and now i am here, surfing the net for the band and robbie robertson stuff...i went by the soundtrack's website....ufanz.com/teams/csi...and a couple other site....but this one is really well done...i just thought i would tell you that......laters =)~

Entered at Wed Jan 22 00:28:52 CET 2003 from du-tele3-102.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.102)

Peter Viney

Thanks for putting this up, Amanda. New info about Garth and "The Right Stuff" OST. Levon singularly fails to spill the beans on Watkins Glen when he had the chance. As we've said before - after Pat's article- everyone has to be implicated in the scam. Good interview though.

Entered at Wed Jan 22 00:04:13 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Long Distance Operator

It's good to see the Stones can still rattle the cage of the good ol' Band GB. I feel blessed that I can enjoy the genius of The Band and The Stones equally. They are my two favorite rock ensembles. LONG LIVE ROCK!

"I watched with glee while your kings and queens fought for ten decades for the gods they made"

Entered at Tue Jan 21 23:43:20 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

I loved those photos Bob. Looking at them, you can almost hear the sting of Hubert Sumlin's Strat. Reading Robert Gordon's bio of Muddy Waters recently, I was reminded that Mr. Sumlin at one point left Howlin' Wolf's band to tour very briefly with Muddy Waters. The Wolf soon persuaded him to return. Hubert Sumlin is the MAN -- that spells M--A--(chile)--N.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 23:40:45 CET 2003 from du-tele3-001.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.1)

Peter Viney

Lars- have taken John Belushi's advice. Thank goodness only you and I know about it!

Entered at Tue Jan 21 23:07:52 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.228)

bob wigo

Subject: Speaking of "Veteran" Rockers

Two weeks ago a dear friend of mine ( and a damn fine guitarist ) caught up with one of Bill Haley's original Comets at a club in Bridgeport, Pa. Franny Beecher is now eighty two years old and continues to tour with the original band. They returned from Germany just prior to Christmas. Franny jammed with the house band at the Bridgeport Rib House and I'm told he rocked the house.

I wonder what Franny Beecher would have to say about being too old to rock and roll. Next time around I'm going to try to get there and take some photographs. Talk about being there from the very beginning. I would love to spend a few hours listening to those stories.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 22:59:20 CET 2003 from proxy.lfpress.com (204.101.153.10)

Mike Nomad

Great pix.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 22:14:20 CET 2003 from ric-sn-oprx-pxy2.firstunion.com (169.200.215.36)

Bones

Robbie Robertson and Martin Scorsese won a Premiere Award last week for the Last Waltz DVD. Also, there were pictures in the press this week of Robbie with U2 at the Miramax party celebrating U2 and Scorsese's Golden Globe awards. You may be able to view them at wireimage.com.

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Bill

Entered at Tue Jan 21 21:37:33 CET 2003 from (208.51.135.38)

Lars

Subject: copyrights

PETER: Uh-huh. And you believed by signing that release to RR he was going to personally promote your record. Don't worry, I won't tell ANYBODY about this.

Listen, there's this book you should read, it's called "This Wheel's On Fire." RR wrote the Band's music, all right, but he doesn't usually share the glory. Forget about that lawyer business. In the words of the late John Belushi, "My advice to you is to start drinking heavily."

Entered at Tue Jan 21 21:20:02 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

The Band and The Stones and The Beatles, etc., etc., etc.

Subject: Harry (writing) & Mim ("not guilty")

Friends & Citizens of the World (who can read English):

All these bands are different - "Allah loves wonderous variety." However, those three (and about ten or twenty others) are each great (and tragic) in their own sometimes interesting ways.

Sources and Influences - everyones got them, including musicians and composers. Ray Davies was pretty accurate about almost all rock composers stealing something from the greats that came before. The Stones DID have a lot of outside help (many names mentioned earlier, I'm sure Gram Parsons came up previously also), the Beatles some, but much less, and The Band most probably the least of almost any. "Outside help" does not necessarily put the particular group out of the box, however... Keith certainly owes A LOT to GP's (and Ry Cooder's influences) for various reasons, but he has carried the weight for what, forty years now, as well. The "bottom line" is that ALL ROCK MUSIC is derivative - that doesn't make it a bad thing.

Yes, Bob W., the Tower Wino's shows were both good. We loved the constant background of James Browns' music before one of them, speaking of influences. And the '94 shows at Veterans' stadium were incendiary. Two songs played before one of them seemed to say something about the Jagger/Richards influences - Princes' "Sexy M-F'er" and then Hank Williams "Your Cheatin' Heart" back to back.

Are the Band better because of less help (interference?) during their recording career? Who can say who is better or worse when getting into the "giants of rock" category? The tremendous choice of great listening pleasure (when you are lucky enough to find it) keeps life everlastingly amusing.

Everyone of 'em was born out of many other rivers/streams of musical and other inspiration. The link I am intrigued by in the end of the 20th century is the return to the blues/country base of music as (not so much a trend), but a recognition of where all this great stuff came from. (I won't "name check" for you, Van Morrison has done that pretty encyclopedically already).

Cigarettes on stage at MSG - ha. Bloomberg should smoke a "dirty" one with Keith and Ron to REALLY get the idea. Too much time spent looking at that "blooming" monitor, Mr. Mayor, has gotten under your skin... But "I Love New York", we really do.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 21:08:49 CET 2003 from ti521110a080-0211.bb.online.no (80.213.50.211)

GTA3

Subject: GTA3

tesy

Entered at Tue Jan 21 21:01:35 CET 2003 from du-tele3-007.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.7)

Peter Viney

… is an example of the Anglocentric world view we had in late 50s Britain in our classrooms festooned with maps which were mainly pink to indicate the Empire. Jethro Tull – Agricultural revolution. It was fixed in our brains as a Great British Innovation, like Newton discovering that apples fall from trees which no one had noticed before, and James Watt discovering that boiling kettles produce steam, and Stephenson's Rocket (a train, quite possibly the first train), and was a memorable fact because the name stuck out - he is the only one of six or seven founders of the Agricultural revolution that I recall. I thought it was therefore a clever choice. They must have played up to it - judging by early album sleeves though!

Entered at Tue Jan 21 20:47:45 CET 2003 from 1cust57.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.57)

Crabgrass

Subject: NYE Photos

Recommend checking photos from NYE at Bearsville in the "What's New?"

Nice work BW!!

Entered at Tue Jan 21 20:43:08 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Woodlark mentioned Doug Sahm and travel, so I think I'll say that I recently picked up the excellent Texas Tornadoes CD - Doug and Augie from Sir Doug, Flaco Jimenez, Freddy Fender and Louis Ortega from the estimable Louie and the Lovers. I came close to seeing Doug once, when the Formerly Brothers came to town, but it turned out that he'd dropped out of the tour early on (though Amos Garrett and Gene Taylor were in fine form). I did see Flaco Jimenez at Harbourfront though, and he was terrific. While his music went over well with the middle-class audience there, he seemed puzzled that his beerfart jokes didn't. Later I found out that a colleague's husband "kidnapped" Flaco after the show and took him to jam with whoever was playing at super-scuzzy Grossman's Tavern - where both his music and his jokes were well received. As for Freddy Fender, I actually came to enjoy some of his music during long drives with truckers while hitchhiking through the Australian outback.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 20:23:33 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Ed Voci: Was it Dave Dexter, Jr.?

Imaginary contract rider:

Party of the first part, the Recording Label, hereby guarantees that the party of the second part, the Recording Artist(s), shall receive, in addition to certain monetary innumeration, the continued performances of a certain unspecified nature by certain unnamed third parties. Party of the first part does not guarantee the quality of the performances, but promises only that the quantity shall be equal to, or greater than, that currently received by the recording label's leading recording artist, a/k/a The Chairman of the Board.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 20:12:34 CET 2003 from wwwcache.lanl.gov (128.165.156.80)

Kay

Roger Tillison likes to tell about the time years ago when Bobby Keys took him up to the Stones' suite at some LA hotel. Mick, supposedly on his first acid trip, was curled up in a chair giggling to himself when Keith came running in, said hello then excused himself to wash his hands, which were covered in ketchup.

When he got back and Roger asked him what was going on, he said Truman Capote's room was at the end of the hall and he had been putting bloody handprints on his door. Guess ya gotta use your imagination to stay amused on the road....

Entered at Tue Jan 21 20:04:55 CET 2003 from 46.ppp139.rsd.worldonline.se (213.204.139.46)

Woodlark (again)

Subject: Times Like These

To have a Band connection in my latest post... travelling on the boat I listened in my lonely cabin to the great postume album of my all time favorite Band member RICK DANKO: "Times Like These".
Footnote: The boat I am talking about in this message is the same boat mentioned in DOUG SHAM's "Live Your Life In Scandinavian Way". It goes like this: "Take a real slow boat to Helsinki Town..."

Entered at Tue Jan 21 19:58:10 CET 2003 from m198214176091.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.176.91)

pehr

apples and oranges again for breakfast

Entered at Tue Jan 21 19:24:48 CET 2003 from m161-mp1.cvx1-b.swa.dial.ntli.net (213.105.232.161)

rich

Subject: keith/levon anecdote

Enjoyed reading all the Keith posts.May i commend to you guys the newly updated Keith biography by Victor Bockris.Its fantastic,a must for Keith fans. There's a hilarious anecdote towards the end involving Keith,Levon,Scotty Moore,DJ Fontana and wait for it,a catheter bag. Honest to God, the book is unputdownable and a million times better than the recent Stephen Davis effort. Bockris's other tomes are good too. The John Cale bio.is another fav. of mine. Have a good night everyone. Rich.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 19:17:29 CET 2003 from 46.ppp139.rsd.worldonline.se (213.204.139.46)

Woodlark

Subject: Jethro Tull

Reminiscences from the late sixties: - My friend the organ player was far too good to play in our humble blues band. He toured with his band in other Nordic Countries, especially in Sweden. One time when they returned from a gig back to Finland they met Jethro Tull in the same boat cruising from Sweden to Finland. He had many stories of the wild party night on this cruiser together with another rock band (=Jethro Tull). I was so J-E-A-L-O-U-S! Last night I made the same trip on a boat between Finland and Sweden and remembered his stories. Those were the days, my friend... those were the days...

Entered at Tue Jan 21 19:07:49 CET 2003 from 1cust13.tnt3.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.153.13)

Charlie Young

Subject: The Band and (Guilt By) The Association

Hey Pat: I have to admit to owning an album or two by the Association and I listened to both their live and studio versions of "Life is a Carnival" that you posted. I even heard the current touring version of the group perform "The Weight" at a benefit concert for Baltimore firefighters last year. I've heard much worse versions, so I guess you could say I find some of their music a "guilty pleasure" as well. They usually showed good taste in their material. At least I haven't stooped to the Three Dog Night version of "Chest Fever" since this tall, busty blonde played it for me in her basement in high school...

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Ed Voci

Subject: Capitol Records

Speaking of Capitol Records, I read in the New Yorker a couple of years ago that the same guy who signed Frank Sinatra to Capitol also signed The Band, but I can't remember his name. Who was it? (This is significant not only for history's sake, but because, if you'll recall, Ronnie promised RR that he'd get more p%$@y than FS and I wanna know if this was contractual. :-) )

Entered at Tue Jan 21 18:32:54 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

JTull Fan

Subject: The real Jethro Tull

Yes, the real JTull invented the seed drill back in 1700-something. Ian and the other band members hate the name to this day. Back in '67, they were known as the John Evan Smash, but weren't good enough to get many rebookings, so to confuse promoters they would frequently switch names in order to get booked. The night they finally clicked with an audience, they went on as Jethro Tull. The band usually did not even know their name when they would show up at a club, and assume that whatever band they did not recognize was them! So, there first significant show they were known as 'Jethro Tull', and it stuck. It could have been worse; the week prior they were 'Candy Colored Rain'.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 18:33:18 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Charlie, Bill, thanks for the informations. Never got before the chance to say: I love your posts.

One (merely poetic) sentence fixed in my brain. I read by the past in some Rick's biography (i dont remember the author):
"He jumprd out of the familly's farmer engine, took his bass, and went directly to Memphis (or Nashville)

Entered at Tue Jan 21 18:24:00 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-017castocp0246.dialsprint.net (63.187.168.246)

Rollie

Subject: A Special day in Band lore

Jan 19th marked the birthday of this promnent figure in Band lore, Robert E Lee. Check out the link.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 18:21:35 CET 2003 from (64.208.176.142)

Lars

Subject: "That Train Can Wait"

PETER: I think you should know that the song you were just talking about in your last post was performed by The Stones on HBO this past weekend. They opened with it. It was a cover of "That Train Can Wait" and JR Robertson's got the rights to it.

Crunch time this Sat. because on Sat, 1/25 people will have to choose between the JWB at The Towne Crier (Pawling, 855- 1300) or Prof. Louie & The Crowmatix at The Turning Point (Piermont, 359-1089) or Jimmy Eppard at The Georgetown Saloon (Georgetown is roughly 30 min. south of Danbury, CT), (203) -544-8003. Good luck.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 18:15:20 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Mrs. Henry

Subject: Onstage Antics

That story about Mayor Bloomberg wanting to stick it to the Stones for smoking ciggies on stage at Madison Square Garden really is pretty funny. Concerts are theatrical experiences and--like Broadway shows--should get some slack just like theatrical performances. I don't think Bloomberg sends in the cops to bust the trendy shows that sometimes feature nudity, for example. I remember seeing Delbert McClinton snorting coke onstage at a show 20 years ago or so and I imagine that members of The Band might have broken a local ordinance or two while playing gigs back in the old days. Sending New York's finest after Keith Richards and his cigarette and then having the cops just stand there and watch is nothing short of comical. It sounds like the NYC police are a lot smarter than their mayor.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 17:53:32 CET 2003 from (63.65.190.196)

Knocking Lost John

Subject: GB/ WEBSITE

Jan, let the record show that I am behaving myself; please do not shut down this site. Butch and I disagreed a while back and I behaved badly and Jan blocked me from posting here (which I still can't post here from home, by the way). So, it wasn't worth it, and it was all probably just silly anyway. I LOVE the BAND and their music, and that's what counts. My advice, stay away from discussing politics and such in here. And if somebody posts something you don't like, just ignore it. Besides the printed word can lead to many misunderstandings. That's my two-cents worth. Adios

Entered at Tue Jan 21 17:42:27 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

The real Jethro Tull played on no records - though he did invent an agricultural implement. I wonder if he's one of Dylan's ploughmen?

Entered at Tue Jan 21 17:15:57 CET 2003 from du-tele3-157.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.157)

Peter Viney

Around the time of “Country Honk”- and there are others – The Stones got pretty Band like in a Rag Mama Rag sort of way and they also have that looseness which sounds rock & roll, but I do find Mick Jagger obnoxious as a person. He comes across as a fake, whether it’s the aquired ‘mockney’ (mock cockney) accent which shocked his parents, or the acquired habit of addressing American audiences as ‘Y’all’ (they don’t say y’all in Essex and I find it kind of patronizing). But what’s the difference between being a fake an an actor? And even I have to admit he’s a brilliant actor and performer. And he’s one of the most convincing white boys singing the blues, except that he tends to over-play it (according to the recent biography, most major blues artists professed to admire him – and so would I if he’d record a composition by me *). Notwithstanding my gripes, their recent remasters have reawakened my liking for the group (especially Keef, but then again you’re supposed to like Keef). They made sloppiness into an art form, and have cleverly wrapped a tight professional stage band around it. But Pat is by no means the first musician I’ve heard complaining about the way it’s done and the inherent musical qualities. And a lot of people simply don’t like them. Keef claims to have “just found” various tunings for himself, but Ry Cooder has pointed to the hours of him playing that Keef taped and studied circa Let it Bleed. The post-Ry Keef plays differently to the pre-Ry Keef, that’s for sure. You’re back to the difference between “research” and “copying”. But Keef is one of a group of astounding rhythm guitarists – Keef, Lou Reed, John Fogerty and John Lennon. * If Mick ever reads this, my original song “Gonna meet you at the depot, throw you under that rollin’ train, you stuck-up cow, then I’m gonna screw you right there on the track with the red light shinin’ in our eyes” is now available, and I’ll go halves on the publishing too. Do you think the title might be too long?

Entered at Tue Jan 21 17:03:22 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Subject: Black rainbow, green, orange & the brown album:

Capitol Records switched from their black "rainbow" label to a green label in 1969, the year the "brown album" was released. The switch, however, was phased-in and different pressing plants made the change earlier than others, presumably to use up what supplies they had on hand before changing. The result, with regards to the "brown album", is that some first pressings had the black rainbow label, while others had the green label. The copy that I purchased here in Georgia when it was first released had the black rainbow label.

Capitol later switched from the green label to an orange one. While the black rainbow label seems to be rarer, early green label pressings sound the same -- that is great! While all this may seem arcane to many, the early pressings are the best because the original master tape of the two-channel mix is no longer available. Hence, all CD versions of the album have been mastered from later generation copies. The original studio multi-track masters are evidently still available, but who could reproduce & nail that original mix again?

Entered at Tue Jan 21 16:59:53 CET 2003 from 1cust224.tnt2.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.201.37.224)

Charlie Young

Subject: Old Smoking Stones and the Real Jethro Tull...

Bob Wigo: I thought of Keith Richards fighting with his hero, Chuck Berry, in "Hail, Hail Rock'n'Roll" during the discussion here recently. I think that flick was influenced by "The Last Waltz" in many ways and contains countless great moments--many of them thanks to Mr. Richards. Please tell me that the DVD is coming with bonus material!

Empty Now: I think that JTull Fan was talking about the namesake for the band Jethro Tull in a joking manner. I think he had been dead for 150 years or so when that band was formed (wasn't he the inventor of some sort of seed implanting machine for farmers, JTull?).

Lil: I saw that story in the paper this morning about New York's former pot-head mayor trying to bust the Stones for smoking cigarettes onstage at Madison Square Garden and found it hilarious. When that band is onstage it becomes their space, their property (anyone who saw the IMAX movie shot on a Stones tour a few years ago knows the ambience of being onstage with the Rolling Stones). But anyway, shouldn't politicians have more significant problems to worry about these days--especially the mayor of a city on the verge of bankruptcy?

Entered at Tue Jan 21 16:53:35 CET 2003 from h-68-164-12-1.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.12.1)

Pat Brennan

You know, it's kind of funny that one component of the reaction to criticism of the Rolling Stones is that there must be some sinister motive involved: Jagger stole my girl, my private parts don't recognize good music, etc. The simple fact is I don't like them. The fact that they're popular means nothing to me, in the same way that the fact that the Band weren't that popular also means nothing to me. I've said that their rhythm section is great, and Keith has come up with many nice guitar licks, so it's not a blanket rip.

BTW, Hank is a friend, and an Irishman, and this is how we talk.

I'm quite bummed that no one is glowing over the Association's version of Life Is A Carnival. I think that's as important as the Stones thread.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 16:21:02 CET 2003 from (81.22.68.40)

Empty Now

Jtull fan : do you mean that all what i heard in Jethro Tull albums is not performed by Jethro Tull ? I’m feeling “cuckold”

Hank: I am with Mr Pat, I cant be objective, but I want to provide an objective argument in your favour. There is a TV document “20th birthday of Rolling Stones Magazine”. I don’t find its video tape in this site, it might be available for two reasons. First, the document is an exhaustive encyclopaedia (with entire songs) of all what rock music was in the 60-80’s. Second, it is commented by Robbie Robertson. I suggest you to watch this domcument and listen what RR himself said when asked about the name of the magazine. Perhaps you will win definitively…find this video, or is it “easier said than done” that’s your (nice) song.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 15:24:12 CET 2003 from jed21.revealed.net (208.23.178.116)

Mike D.

Hey Sam, did you get my list via email? I assume you have been busy. I just wanted to make sure it came through.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 15:23:09 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.228)

bob wigo

I hope everyone enjoys the photographs from the New Year's Eve show at the Bearsville Theater. Sorry for the delay. I'm struggling a bit with "Photoshop" as my "copy" was not accompanied by an instruction manual. Anyone know a source for some good instruction on that program?

Since Keith has been a topic of conversation of late I was reminded of a couple of shows he did at the Tower Theater in the early nineties with his band "The X-Pensive Winos". Anyone here ever catch them? They were a great rock band that really cut right to the core of the matter. Keith played and sang with tons of heart during those shows. I certainly hope he gives that band another shot some time in the future.

I was also reminded of a great rock film entitled "Hail, Hail Rock and Roll". Keith Richards goes about assembling a world class rock and roll band for Chuck Berry. The result is wonderful and the commentary along the way is really entertaining. If you haven't seen it you may want to check it out. It's a lot of fun.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 15:12:52 CET 2003 from jed21.revealed.net (208.23.178.116)

Mike D.

This whole debate about The Stones is not tripe as someone posted earlier. I have never been much of a fan of The Stones. That's due to my belief that they are a better in the studio than onstage. I am of the opinion that a great band is one that is in it's "element" onstage. Mind you, that's just my opinion. They're a better studio band. I do love the 60's stuff though. So, I do like them. And Mr. Brennan is certainly entitled to his opinion. And I agree with him, to an extent. There are lots of different opinions here, which keeps it interesting. Though I do wonder who Mr. Brennan compares The Stones to, if any band? (or maybe he doesn't). Comparing The Stones to The Band (for example) is inevitable in this place. The Band were always a self-contained unit (occasionally a friend or two joined in). The Stones always had outside help such as Nicky Hopkins, Al Kooper, Ry Cooder, Bobby Keys, Billy Preston, Ian McLagan, Chuck Leavell, Blondie Chaplin, etc...If nothing else, they had some great outside help. I also can't help but remember 6th Stone Ian Stewart. In short, The Stones aren't my favorite but I agree with Brennan. Lay off the guy a little :) He's entitled to his opinion.

"There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy. There's only you and me and we just disagree". Oh no, now I got that song in my head :(

Mike

Entered at Tue Jan 21 14:37:15 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

JTull Fan

Subject: Band names

I heard also, don't know if it's true, that the real Jethro Tull never played on ANY f their albums, and never received even a cent of profit!

Entered at Tue Jan 21 14:29:38 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Fred

Entered at Tue Jan 21 14:20:27 CET 2003 from dialup125-b.ts552.cwt.esat.net (193.203.157.125)

Hank

Subject: Your mouth don't move...I can't hear you speak

Hmmmmnnnn..........the old "Pat Brennan versus The Rolling Stones" debate rears its pointed little head again.........

Pat, come clean.....did Mick Jagger run off with an old girlfriend of yours once?

Tell the truth, now.......because your recent sarky post about Jagger "waving at a jet from an aircraft carrier" seems to betray an intense dislike of Mick Jagger as opposed to The Stones themselves..........

The Rolling Stones are respected as songwriters, recording and performing artists all over the world in a way that not even The Beatles are.......The Stones got to the root of it in the same way The Band got into it.......As a band, The Band would have an edge on The Stones but my guess is that the Stones would be the FIRST people to admit this and would have been envious of The Band/Hawks first-hand exposure to the birth of rock'n'roll.........

......and once again.........I'm not sure if I got a straight answer the last time.....

( ha ha The Last Time! Geddit?)........

Would you, Pat Brennan, perform with The Rolling Stones if you got the call and the same financial renumeration as Chuck Leavall? Yea or nay, sir?

Entered at Tue Jan 21 13:44:37 CET 2003 from (212.31.242.103)

Empty Now

Peter: (for the 2nd time today) very interesiting debate about what do we call a band or a group. I am foccusing on the meanning content of the name of the group
One example that has always intringated me, is “The Alan Parsons Project”, one very respectable group in the musical quality sense, which follows the name of the Sound Engineer. I own two albums, “Pyramid” (1981) and “Vulture Culture” (1986) the name of Alan Parsons (who worked for long with The Beatles) as a leader of the group (APP) appears nowhere in the songs performance, neither as composer, nor as instrument player, nor as singer, etc.... -):.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 12:42:02 CET 2003 from mcha-ai157.taconic.net (205.231.28.157)

Lil

Somewhat music related...and I found it interesting (From the Village Voice).

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SUN JAN 19, 2003 10:35:25 ET XXXXX

NEW YORK CITY MAYOR FUMED OVER 'SMOKING' ON STAGE AT STONES CONCERT

**Exclusive**

New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg is fuming mad over Rolling Stones members smoking on stage at Madison Square Garden during an nationally televised concert this weekend, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

"The mayor sent cops to issue summonses," one stage source told the DRUDGE REPORT late Saturday. "But the cops watched the show, off stage, by a monitor, instead of stopping the concert."

MORE

HBO cameras captured band members Keith Richards and Ron Wood smoking cigarettes while performing.

"The band raced out of the Garden after they finished their last number, avoiding the police," an insider said. "The music had not even finished playing; and they were in cars already, spinning away. They did not even go to their dressing rooms!"

Madison Square Garden regulations state: there is no smoking permitted. "This policy is strictly enforced. Violation of this regulation is grounds for ejection."

In December, ex-smoker Mayor Michael Bloomberg signed a strict smoking ban in New York City.

Bloomberg is also trying to get smoking banned in Central Park.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 11:44:08 CET 2003 from du-tele3-020.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.20)

Peter Viney

A question we’ve debated before. What is a ‘group’ or ‘band’? The best answer is the musicians who are named and pictured on the cover as the group and who are probably shareholders in the company that owns the name. The Beatles created the concept of the group, but even they had people on sessions – starting with Alan White, then George Martin often played a twiddle here or there, before Eric Clapton and Billy Preston (and string sections and French horn players and orchestras …). The Monkees fictionalized the process while only Dolenz actually performed on Last Train to Clarksville. The Stones was always an arbitary concept, from the day they decided their keyboard player was too plain to appear on the LP sleeves in early 1963. They have always had an uncredited keyboard player on stage (well, behind the curtain in the early days), long before they added horns and backing singers. Ronnie Wood was effectively a session man on a salary for over TWENTY years before he “joined”. Bill Wyman, though a member, was absent for bass duties on about half the tracks they cut while he was officially “bass guitarist”. The Who have had a “non-member” keyboard player on stage for years.

The Band – except for a little from Billy Mundi and Larry Packer – was one of the most contained groups of all on record, but (when they could afford it) added a horn section. One of the disturbing things about “Jubilation” was the lack of a cohesive “Band” at its core. They hardly ever all played on a track. But most albums are actually like that!

Entered at Tue Jan 21 11:24:31 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.1)

Empty Now

Peter: Aaaah! Radio days....

Jan: thanks for the archive reference, unfortunately i didnt found enough clues to identify my last friend. My investigations reminded me once again one quote from "The Blues Brothers": -Are you the police ? - No we are the musicians.

Very funny quotes from Bono and Garfunkel, Ooooof! it's time to take a breath with good and real humour...

by the same occasion....in "Manhattan", a dialogue between Woody Allen and Matt Murphy:
WA: - My first wife left me for an other woman
MM: - Why that?
WA: - She said i'm not enough funny, she needed to laugh sometimes. And she likes the ski, I'm not a good skier
MM: - Is she happy now?
WA: - Of course, she's somewhere having spirit in laughing while skiing

Last but not least, James Brown interviewed about Michal Jackson (in 1984!!!):
"in concert at only 300 miles from mine, he's mad"

Entered at Tue Jan 21 05:21:06 CET 2003 from 1cust252.tnt1.hackensack.nj.da.uu.net (67.235.133.252)

Ray G.

...and wasn't Ricky Fataar the guy who played Stig O'Hara (George) in The Rutles? Yes he was!!! Funny movie, right up there with "This is Spinal Tap"! My favorite character in the Rutles movie was John Belushi as Ron Decline (Allen Klien).

Peace

Entered at Tue Jan 21 05:03:35 CET 2003 from dialup-67.28.25.224.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.28.25.224)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Tue Jan 21 05:00:00 CET 2003 from dialup-67.28.25.224.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (67.28.25.224)

Pat Brennan

Uhh, "The Great Bob Dylan," I feel confident enough in my experiences and opinions to sign my own name. Be that as it may, you might notice that this is a Band website. I'm here because I love the Band. I'm going to guess that most everyone else is here for much the same reason. It's not a Rolling Stones website, which means there may be some people here who find the Stones less than scintillating. Don't be alarmed. It's okay, it really is. And, just between you and me--everyone else turn away for a second--okay, just between you and me, I've seen a couple of really good rock shows.

Stanley, in the Robertson songbook, there is mention that US came out of some retuning experiments Robertson was investigating. I believe Robertson actually references it in some interview. Unfortunately, the writer does not explicate the retuning. The book is at my office and I'll post the exact reference--no paraphrasing here.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 04:29:30 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Subject: Keef

If you ever read an interview with Keith Richards in a musician magazine, like Guitar Player, you'll see beyond the image and the slurred words. Keef is a top shelf player of the guitar who knows what he's doing. I don't think anyone plays such a great mix of rhythm and lead. He has a grasp of the guitar that nobody seems to have in quite the same way. I have seen it written that when the band is onstage Keith is also running the show. he's the guy they look to during a concert.

I also love the fact that he always acknowledges Charlie - and well he should.

Bob W = I have to disagree with you about Woody. He seems to be a perfect fit with Keef. They work well together. Jeff beck (who I love) is too strong a guitar presence. He'd clash with Keith and it wouldn't work - IMHO anyway.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 02:21:11 CET 2003 from dial2a-208.i2eyenet.com (64.80.2.208)

Hi

The show's over but they archive everything so you can hear the whole thing if interested in about a week ....

Entered at Tue Jan 21 02:00:58 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

bob wigo

I do consider Pat a friend and we have exchanged numerous emails in follow up to some of our public debates. We have, most times, been able to arrive at something resembling an agreement or simply agree to disagree and move on. I appreciate that comment Pat. I certainly respect your opinion and your appreciation for the fact that a poke in the ribs does not automatically equate to a punch in the nose.

Regarding Chuck Leavell..he is, no doubt, a musician of the highest order and certainly deserves to be well compensated for his enormous contribution to the Stones or any other project in which he takes part. His work with the Allman Bros. would have been statement enough for me. I've seen and heard him on several occasions with ABB and now with the Stones and he has become an integral component of their live sound.

Pat, I really would like to hear your take on Keith Richards as a rhythm guitarist. I really believe he is one of the very best at his craft and, beyond that, truly connected to the very soul of rock and roll. I believe the affectations of the band members can, at times, distract the listener but I can't say I have ever been anything other than knocked over by a live Stones performance. I too saw that tour with Stevie Wonder and it was a marvelous show. Stevie was incredible but the Stones blistered the Spectrum here in Philly on that hot summer afternoon. Ah, the forgotten days of the matinee !

P.S. I still vote to can Woody and get Jeff Beck in there for one last go'round.

Entered at Tue Jan 21 01:57:18 CET 2003 from dial2a-23.i2eyenet.com (64.80.2.23)

Hi

Hubert Sumlin is live on WFMU.org right now playing acoustic......

Entered at Tue Jan 21 01:55:07 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

Stanley Landau

Pat Brennan, I’m curious about your comment that Robertson wrote US on an alt tuned guitar. I can hear why you'd say that, but I think I can play a reasonable facsimile of the chords with regular tuning. Moreover, having seen Robertson play the song live more than once, I don’t recall ever seeing him change guitars or retuning before playing the song. I’m also pretty sure that he’s playing a regularly tuned guitar for the solo near the end of the song. Incidentally, when Rick Danko played the song on guitar during his solo performances, was he playing the same chords as on the original recording or some kind of variation? (e.g. on the Classic Album video).

Entered at Tue Jan 21 01:37:14 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Harry & Mim

Subject: Keith Richards Musical Ability

Folks:

Can't recall the poster who seemed to think that "Keith Richards is not one of the three (?) people in the Rolling Stones with any musical ability" (paraphrasing heavily here), but we must beg to differ.

Mr. Richards is one of a select few guitar players who has a real, complete "handle" on the value of rhythm to rock music. (Mr. Robertson is not too shabby in this area either). And, as a songwriter, for about a 5 year period, Richards contributed tunes that literally "define" it ("it" being great rock & roll).

He plays in a primarily rhythmic style, with leads strongly rooted in the "base" of rock music (Rhythm, for those of you not following...) Pete Townshend has a similar, though obviously different, technique (probably owing to the fact that he was the single guitarist playing in concert for his band - but who really knows, anyway. Pete could possibly analyze his style for us; however, we must believe that he's got other things on his mind these days.)

The MSG concert had an excellent, well thought out set list and the group is playing as well as any time in their long, impressive career. They have never failed to rise to the occasion when put on the spot with millions of people "in attendance." (And as for Chuck Leavell (? spelling), he deserves every penny he is paid for his contributions.)

For a period of time, Mr. Richards would simply place a framed photo of Charlie Watts in front of him at a press conference (photo facing outward), letting that do his talking for him as far as what he believed made (in large part) The Rolling Stones what they are. Every show, Richards will face Watts, nodding his head, rocking back and forth, goading both of them (and the rest of the band)on to higher and higher heights of musical bliss.

"Keith Richards ain't a musician" - well "I'll be John Brown". Uuuhhhmmm, for those requiring a justification for this post on this GB - Levon Helm. We think there may be a mutual admiration of each ones' musical talents and appreciation of the importance of rhythm to great playing.

"she gimme a dirty look, and my hair fell out"

Dr. John (aka Mac Rebennack) - "I Been Hoodood" - my god, another fella who understands the importance of rhythm to good music - I think we must be onto something here, folks

Entered at Tue Jan 21 01:08:24 CET 2003 from bose-cp.bose.com (4.19.252.130)

The Great Bob Dylan

The debate about Chuck Leavell is tripe. He was clearly in his glory ripping it up with the World's Greatest Rock And Roll Band in NYC on Saturday. I get the feeling that Patrick Brennan wouldn't know a good rock show if it were in his pants, but that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 23:55:22 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ed Voci

Subject: Australian Band music; Wigo/Brennan; Viney/car

How do I get a copy of the Australian stuff?

Wigo/Brennan: I don't believe for a minute that you two are friends; you're much too nice to one another.

Viney: get a model that has music controls in the steering wheel; it's safer and you avoid sharing/losing control with the significant other in the passenger seat.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 23:40:19 CET 2003 from spider-mtc-tb062.proxy.aol.com (64.12.104.47)

JTull Fan

Subject: Peter V:

You have a 95% chance of getting a cd player in your rental car; you may even be able to confirm this at the rental counter, as I often do on business trips.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 23:29:45 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Entered at Mon Jan 20 23:23:12 CET 2003 from h-68-164-224-97.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.224.97)

Pat Brennan

Anyway, it's the group's interaction at that point that I love, not any particular thing one of them is doing.

After viewing a decent portion of the HBO, I have no trouble with my opinion concerning the musicianship in the group. Of course, having watched Stevie Wonder blow them off the stage in Chicago in the early 70's--at what was supposedly the groups' peak--I am not objective on the subject. Keith has indeed come up with many fine guitar licks, but I only have to look at my library and see one Stones album (First pressing of Sticky Fingers, mostly because it's a collectible) to know that they just don't say much to me.

Yes, my mind slipped up on a piece of trivia. Luckily I hired someone to go back in the GB archives, figure out what happened, and set me straight. And, again, if you think there is some connection between these two occurances, that being the Stones a) inability to remember songs they recorded, b) their relying on their piano player to find the songs, chart them, and teach them to the principals, and c) my forgetting a post I made, well, there's not much I can say otherwise.

Besides being one of the nicest people you'll ever meet, Chuck is an in-demand guy. People hire him to play, whether on records or live, and he gets paid absolutely top dollar for his services, deservedly so. What he thinks of his employers is probably tempered by this, but I really don't know what his real feelings are. I'm sure he loves the gig. Any working stiff would. I do know that when he put his own thing together, it didn't sound anything like The Stones. And I know from my own personal experience that the projects he considers getting involved with from a production standpoint are miles away from The Stones.

BTW, Bob Wigo is a friend, and this is how we talk.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 23:04:28 CET 2003 from du-tele3-048.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.48)

Peter Viney

May I ask an only vaguely Band-related question? Today I was booking a hire car for California for June. Over dinner, I was saying I'd have to take a couple of good compilations for the road (Band, Van) and I remembered the last time I rented a car in California about 7 or 8 years ago. To my horror it had a radio but no cassette player. We had kids with us and a stack of story tapes. They said that due to litigation from someone who broke a precious cassette in a car, they no longer put tape players in rental cars (recalling the McDonald's coffee incident). Is that still true? Or do they have CDs instead? No hurry. I've got five months! (This one's Alamo - don't think it was last time). Band relation is that I'll be playing The Band! Also, if driving in California at that time, look out for me on the wrong side of the road.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 22:48:15 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.207)

bob wigo

Which brings me to this question.....how many of those musical intricacies were Robbie, Rick, Levon and Richard working on before Garth came onboard? All of the evidence clearly says "none". I said the same thing back in September that I say now. If, stylistically, the Stones were pursuing musical ideas that required the intricate arrangements which you admire so much they could have easily added the appropriate personnel to take them in that direction. They are essentially a blues band.

For the record, in my opinion Keith Richards is unquestionably one of the greatest rhythm guitarists in the history of the genre. How on earth could you exclude him from your "real musicians" ?

I can understand their need to have their memories refreshed. We had a guy right here who posted his own website as a reference for everyone and, a few short months later, couldn't recall doing it. Am I making this up ?

You can't have it both ways Patrick. I don't believe a musician of Chuck Leavell's stature would have dedicated all the time he has given to The Stones if he didn't feel the caliber of players measured up. Bobby Keys, a pretty damn good musician by all accounts, has also been a staple for decades. Are these guys there solely for the cash or is there something to the music ?

Entered at Mon Jan 20 22:37:22 CET 2003 from (193.113.57.165)

Billy Bob Thortons love child with angelina Jolie

Subject: Bandying around

Whiplash whisky bourbon beard, Give me another I feel weird, Is one of the Bands less famous lines.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 22:04:04 CET 2003 from h-68-164-224-97.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.224.97)

Pat Brennan

And, Bob, I have no doubt Chuck could play the US part.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 21:50:37 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

JTull Fan (us2inva at excite.com)

Subject: Daithi68/Peter V.

Peter: Thanks! It's a good read, except I won't know whether to file under fiction or nonfiction! Daithi68: There are too many music venues in New York to mention. BB Kings of course is an obvious one, although it evokes more New York sophistication (and prices) versus its' more authentic Memphis cousin on Beale St. I would stick to Greenwich Village, where the local, free paper, the Village Voice, is generally authoritative on where to see the bands you are interested in.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 21:47:17 CET 2003 from mcha-aa044.taconic.net (205.231.148.43)

Lil Again

Entered at Mon Jan 20 21:44:50 CET 2003 from mcha-aa044.taconic.net (205.231.148.43)

Lil

Peter: I have "Wish you were here tonight" and "Keep on the sunny side" (a wonderful version with Rick and Maud Hudson) from the Kuranda show that you mentioned. I don't have the whole tape. I have several "mix" tapes from live shows that Rick had made for me. I'd be curious to hear the entire Kuranda show.

Thanks Jan (and Jack :-)

Entered at Mon Jan 20 21:31:46 CET 2003 from du-tele3-087.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.87)

Peter Viney

There is (allegedly) a tape from 5 June 1988, which is listed as "Danko, Hudson & Friends" rather than as "The Band" with the line-up Jan has listed on the site - Kuranda Ampitheatre, Queensland. It includes Sail on Sailor and Wish You were Here Tonight, as well as Kansas City, Spoonful and the usual suspects - Twlight, Mystery train, It Makes No Difference, Cripple Creek, The Weight, The Shape I'm in, Ophelia.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 21:26:15 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Bumbles

Subject: Roots & Rhythm

The latest bulletin from the venerable Roots & Rhythm has an extremely favorable write-up of Louisiana Red’s “A Different Shade of Red: The Woodstock Sessions,” noting that it was recorded at Levon Helm’s barn and that Mr. Helm is responsible for the “solid drums.” For many years, Roots & Rhythm has been an essential mail-order source for hard-to-find blues, gospel, R’n’B, old-time country, early R’n’R, folk, ethnic & world music. They can be found on the Web at the above link.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 21:24:23 CET 2003 from du-tele3-087.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.87)

Peter Viney

I read the Goldman book on Elvis, which seemed more interested in Elvis's predilictions on underwear (white, plain, newly issued by roadies) than on the music. It was a tabloid job, readable enough in the way that the National Enquirer might be, but dwarfed by the two great Guralnik books which followed and told the story properly. The Lennon one by Goldman got serialised in the newspapers, and I read the offending chapter on Lennon and Epstein in Spain which McCartney assured the world was nonsense. Taking Sir Paul's advice, I declined to buy it even when it hit the remainder shops for £5. In the intervening years, I think someone has suggested that it was true after all. Whatever. I'll leave John on the pedastel which would probably mean nothing to him as he didn't give much attention to what the world thought - except when he sent back his medal.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 21:22:30 CET 2003 from ip-161-71-171-195.corp-eur.3com.com (161.71.171.195)

Daithí68

Entered at Mon Jan 20 20:41:56 CET 2003 from (162.111.195.36)

Bones

I cherish coming here and finding out things that I didn't know about the Band. Butch will tell us about a great show. Paul Godfrey, John Donabie or Diamond Lil will share personal experiences that bring me back to a wonderful time. I love that people like Peter Viney will take the time and energy to locate recording sessions that we did not know involved the Band. I appreciate it when someone like Amanda or Brown Eyed Girl will share pictures of their heroes (however there is no need for public arguments). As always, I get excited when my fellow southerner, David Powell, keeps us on musical terms here.

Jan: Thanks for everything! I hope everyone will make you proud. Your labor of love here is truly wonderful.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 20:34:59 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.207)

bob wigo

Pat, it's possible Mick was attempting to wave you up in an effort to have you teach Chuck Leavell how to handle that descending line/ritardando/stop/start from "Unfaithful Servant" !!

IORR

Entered at Mon Jan 20 20:07:45 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Entered at Mon Jan 20 20:04:07 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ed Voci

Subject: Ze Bend, Blondie Chaplin

Thanks to all for the Blondie Chaplin info, especially to Ray G. and to Jan for the permanent link. One of you writers out there should get Blondie to write it all down. If not a book, at least an article. Suggested title: "The Best of Blondie". You know at least all GBers and Deborah Harry would buy copies.

Are there any recordings, boots presumably, of the Australian Band?

Can you see and hear Richard, relaxed and slinking on the couch, looking into the TLW camera, and saying "...so, heh, we just called ourselves...Ze Bend". Thanks for that gem, Empty Now.

edwardvoci at aol.com

Entered at Mon Jan 20 19:49:19 CET 2003 from adsl-65-43-166-208.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net (65.43.166.208)

Calvin

I dont know Jan, I might have let us keep believing that the axe was hanging right over our head, ready to drop at any second. Lords know the threat has certainly changed the GBs tone. Besides, Ive always beena Crown Royal sort of guy myself.

Several years ago, right after the Goldman book came out on Lennon or ELvis, I dont remember which, as both were hatchet jobs. SNL did a skit wherein in 1962 Goldman was the Accordian Player for the Beatles, who ELvis talked in dumping from the group. Goldman swore revenge, and we wound up with 2 Bios 20+ years later, It was quite funny.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 19:47:34 CET 2003 from h-68-164-10-189.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.10.189)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Mon Jan 20 19:32:18 CET 2003 from h-68-164-10-189.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.10.189)

Pat Brennan

http://www.theassociation.net/cgi-bin/cwload.cgi?page=raudio

Note their first RA single. Then, scroll down to some early 70's singles. Click and get ready to laugh.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 18:15:43 CET 2003 from (209.236.161.5)

Mikey Lenahan

Subject: Hubert Sumlin Tribute at BB KINGS

Hey Guy's, I hope to see some of the GB'ers ( crabgrass ) at BB Kings this Wednesday night. Levon and the Barnburners with a list of the HOTTEST blues players in the country. This is going to be a great show. I will try to get some photos for the web site. Peace

Entered at Mon Jan 20 17:21:12 CET 2003 from tnt-77-77.ct.dialin.ntplx.com (209.54.77.77)

Tracy

Subject: NAMM

I just came back from Anaheim, CA, last night after attending the National Association of Music Merchants show. I gotta say, since then I've changed. Holy shit that was HUGE. Every single brand name in music products you can think of. The show directory guide the size of a local telephone book and a lot of well-known musicians checking it out, signing stuff, or just hanging out. Unbelievable. My respect for many went sky high up.

Tracy

Entered at Mon Jan 20 17:20:31 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

On to other topics: Wasn't it the Sons of [Bill] Champlin, not the Sons of [Blondie] Chaplin who opened for our guys at Winterland? Blondie's band was called the Flames when in South Africa (they even had an album - the cover of which I saw in a thrift shop once) and the Flame once they'd gotten to California. Ricky Fataar was in Tim Finn's band post-Split Enz if that's of interest to anyone here.

Peter V: thanks for the kind words on my Daniel thoughts. Disappointing that they were overlooked what with civil war breaking out and all - but, hey, it's not the first time. By the way, I was reading one of Wodehouse's Jeeves books over the weekend - the one where Bertie gets a banjolele - and what do I find towards the end but a reference to how Daniel must've felt in the bally lion's den. Deucedly rummy is all I can say.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 17:13:22 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.207)

bob wigo

Subject: Bayou Sam

Bayou,

Check out the link for the lyrics to "God - Part II". I guess I paraphrased a bit but that was the gist of it.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 17:04:12 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Dave Z

Thanks Jan!!! You are the best... yesterday, I was searching the Homepsun Tapes webpage and thought I had found something new... Richard background vocals on I Shall Be Released off a Happy Traum CD... and then I checked in the Discog... and sure enough, it's been listed for a while... I am continually amazed at the depth of this site... And thanks for the stories Butch... it's great to hear anything about Levon and Amy... and how much fun you guys are having... Lil, I'm actually eyeing up 3/8 but I won't be able to say for at least another week... that's gonna be a great show...

Entered at Mon Jan 20 17:01:32 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Tull = I never did read that Goldman book. Being a big Lennon fan I guess I should. I remember hearing so much backlash about it from everyone including big name people. It was felt that the book was filled with falsehoods.

Bob Wigo = I'd never heard that Bono line - funny line.

Ben Pike = OK? Feel better?

I popped in a video yesterday of The Band's set at Woodstock '94. It was a great set. There was an amusing bit where they are having some microphone troubles and Rick is talking up a storm to Levon over one of his cymbals. Then Levon, in a moment of frustration, swirls the stick in his left hand and pounds the hi-hat and bass drum, and glares, presumably, at the sound guys. Then he kind of nods at Rick and just kicks in to the next tune with the Band right with him. it was cool. There's also a shot of Levon with Butch (I beleive it's Butch) after the set.

I was flipping through Sundays paper yesterday when a photo of Simon & Garfunkel caught my eye. Someone wrote to a gossip column asking how Garfunkel explains his split from Simon in 1970. I thought his resonse was great =

"Let's just say we split over lyrics. Paul wanted the Mrs. Robinson refrain to go 'wo wo wo', while I insisted on 'woo woo woo.'"

Entered at Mon Jan 20 16:10:27 CET 2003 from (12.31.43.207)

bob wigo

I always liked Bono's line on Goldman.....

"Instant karma's gonna get you...if I don't get you first."

Entered at Mon Jan 20 16:05:24 CET 2003 from h-68-164-12-144.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.12.144)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Mon Jan 20 15:56:31 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

JTull Fan

Subject: Bourbon, GB, and J.Lennon

Great news Jan! May I also recommend some Knob Creek (bourbon)next time you are so inclined? Last week I bought ALbert Goldman's notorious The Lives Of John Lennon (Band Link: Lennon's stay with Ronnie Hawkins where he flooded his bathroom, collapsing the floor into Ronnie's kitchen and the $5,000.00 phone bill he left behind). I remember the scandal this book created when it came out, yet I'm sure there is also much truth to be found in it. Any thoughts, guys? Would expecially like to now what Peter Viney has to say on Goldman and his credibility as a writer. Better/worse than Hoskyns?

Entered at Mon Jan 20 15:37:36 CET 2003 from hoiberg.hiof.no (158.36.51.55)

jh

"Empty Now," a Band fan from France named Thierry posted in the guestbook (in French) on January 18, 1999... check the archives.

Btw, we (the royal "we") spent this weeked with a large bottle of Jack Daniels, trying to figure out what to do with the site. At least we now have clearance from "higher powers" here at the college to keep it going as long as they don't get any more complaints about content. And the JD mellowed us out a bit, I guess. We're a a little more optimistic about the future of the site than when we wrote that GB entry last Saturday afternoon - before the bourbon kicked in.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 14:32:54 CET 2003 from (66.200.102.19)

JTull Fan

Subject: lyrics

Ben, that's your bag! And it would give you a big head to give me an ass-wuppin' like that. :) SPORTS: Politics I can put aside, but my beloved NY Yankees? :(

Entered at Mon Jan 20 14:12:48 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ben Pike

Charlie, that Twilight Zone was no doubt written by Earl Hammer, who wrote all the "country" Twilight Zones and, for better or worse, went on to give us "The Waltons".

My Opening Farewell? I remember the first time I posted on here, no doubt stupidly using my real name. I wrote this real nice and sincere post about how I loved the Band and how great it was to share it with others. So this guy prints a real snooty post saying I didn't belong on the site due to my bad spelling! So since then I have made it a point to type really fast and never correct (almost) anything. I don't know who was around back then, maybe PV and Pat.

Jan, I've never complained to you or spoken to you in any fashion, but I will say this is simply the finest site I have ever seen, period. I may be prejudiced by my love of the subject matter; but I've seen lots of worthless sites about stuff I love. This is just the best.

Lil, I have deeply enjoyed endlessly razzing you about once saying something nice about Journey. PV, as hopelessly middle brow guys with overstated views on sixties Rock stars with the last name Morrison go; you're the best. Pat, thanks for trying to be fair and it was great to be with you at my only, epic experience with the original five. Roz, I want to father your baby. Butch, I don't believe you ever actually got any closer to Levon Helm than David Clayton Thomas. Amanda, thanks for trying to be fair. Crabgrass, thanks for backing me up on that Dylan Grammy Speech thing. Bassman Lee, you know he Clinton scandels like James Brown knows Perry Como. Tullfan, you should study the lyrics more so you can quote them like me. Ben Pike, you contributed tons of interesting info to the GB that no one ever gives you credit for since you always clean there clock on Bubba. So be it. That is all.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 14:02:42 CET 2003 from (212.31.242.97)

Empty Now

Non native English speakers The Band fans. Yazooman : I’m very pleased, you dont cite my name, since i know you consider me like one of your best friends, (the reciprocity is true) I deduce you think i am a native English speaker, in fact English comes in third or forth position.
More far pleased is that your post picked up in my memory that the first time i heard about The Band as a group is thanks to a French friend of mine i met during my holiday in August 1970 in Bordeaux (France). Later, I losed him from view. He was a true and autenthetic early The Band fan, I wished he were posting here in.
The kind of details that marks you for the rest of your life, he pronounced “Ze Bend” . I was with him during whole days hearing Ze Bend are zat, Ze Bend are zis, Ze Bend do zat Ze Bend do zis, Ze Bend played zis song, Ze Bend played zat song, Ze Bend, Ze Bend, Ze Bend, Ze Bend, Ze Bend, Ze Bend, Ze Bend, Ze Bend, Ze Bend, Ze Bend........The Band, now i understand.

God bless you Thierry B. if one of these days you read this post.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 11:17:50 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

jerry

Entered at Mon Jan 20 11:11:13 CET 2003 from saintpaul.pioneerpress.com (208.149.52.102)

jerry

Cahoots kinda grow's on ya, Ive been listening to Springstens "The Rising" and liking that also... I havn't been here in a few so I've just got caught up on the latest Gb saga, I hope this place survives, Ive enjoyed reading most of the posts in here and have learned a lot about the Band and music in general so from that standpoint I would miss it, leave it to people to skrew a good thing up and they will. So if this is it so long Roz hun where ever ya are...Dave Z take care...Jan, I've enjoyed your site very much, hope ya don't pull the plug but if you do so be it, thanks...

Entered at Mon Jan 20 11:08:41 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Joe

I believe Blondies band was called "The Flames" or something like that

Entered at Mon Jan 20 09:43:35 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Joe

JL7688 at aol.com

Entered at Mon Jan 20 07:24:44 CET 2003 from dialup-67.24.83.228.dial1.lasvegas1.level3.net (67.24.83.228)

Tim(SUNDOG)Corcoran

Subject: Robbie Robertson

Martin Scorsese's new movie just won a Golden Globe award tonight and thanked Robbie Robertson,,,Cool Beans Martin!!!! You go Robbie!!! :-)

Entered at Mon Jan 20 06:53:41 CET 2003 from 1cust251.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.251)

Crabgrass

Subject: Blondie Chaplin / Indian Museum / Sports

Wow!! Jan is really on the ball updating this site! He's already made a page for Blondie Chaplin containing the info posted right here in the GB earlier today! Astonishing!!! (Click "My link" above.) BTW I think Blondie was the guy who wrote "Sail On Sailor." (Correct me if I'm wrong.) He also played with Rick at one of his last Bottom Line shows about 5 years back.

Shouldn't that Museum of the American Indian really be called the Museum of the Native American? I hope that guy chiseling the stone slab above the entrance way hasn't gotten past "of the" yet!

SPORTS: I'm all for keeping sports out of the GB!

Entered at Mon Jan 20 05:21:13 CET 2003 from jed6.revealed.net (208.23.178.101)

Mike D.

Thanks for mentioning The Beatles Sam! Contrary to what has been said, those confiscated tapes have already been bootlegged. As a matter of fact, included amongst those tapes is The Beatles impromptu version of "Third Man Theme", which I emailed to Jan last week. He probably ignored it due to all that is going on here. Should I give it another try and see if he'll do something with it or let it go? Anyone? Mind you, The Beatles don't come close to The Band's version. However, they do a pretty spiffy job considering that it's "on the spot".

Entered at Mon Jan 20 05:19:54 CET 2003 from h66-59-176-163.gtconnect.net (66.59.176.163)

Serge

Someone posting under my name ?

Entered at Mon Jan 20 05:12:03 CET 2003 from proxy.lfpress.com (204.101.153.10)

Mike Nomad

I'd simply like to second some of the more constructive comments that have been made to Jan regarding the Guestbook, particularly those made by Butch Dener and Paul Godfrey. It would be a shame if all the work that has been put into this Web page by Jan and his associates were to be lost. So, please, keep religion, sports and politics — unless it relates to music — outta here. Let's try to grow up.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 05:06:08 CET 2003 from xn83.emc.com (168.159.1.83)

Serge

MONO copy of Big Pink is available ?

Entered at Mon Jan 20 05:00:16 CET 2003 from (209.130.200.80)

Lars

Subject: Oxford Depot

JOE: I wish I had your e-mail address so I wouldn't have to gum up this guestbook with a personal message, BUT I'll make this brief.

I've been to a LOT of Oxford Depot shows, just ask Rich. Just tell him that, next to Mike Baglione, he's the most LONESOME guy I've ever met. He'll be flattered, it's part of their show. His bass player Leon has my e-mail if you ever want to get in touch.

....................LARS

Entered at Mon Jan 20 04:53:25 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Charlie Young = thanks for posting that link to the story of that Beatles recording. I wonder what it'll fetch on ebay. I hope it gets released eventually......Just when ya think that there can't be any new Beatles stuff, they find those stolen tapes, and this live recording pops up. Keep it coming.

Ray G - I enjoyed your Blondie Chaplin info. I'm trying to imagine what it must be like to be bought in by the Beach Boys and actually sing a lead vocal in a band like that which was stocked to the gills with singers. Pretty cool....and wasn't Ricky Fataar the guy who played Stig O'Hara (George) in The Rutles?

Entered at Mon Jan 20 04:03:44 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Mrs. Henry

Subject: Robbie Robertson & American Indians

Martin Scorsese's new movie just won a Golden Globe award tonight for the U2 song called "The Hands That Built America." Robbie Robertson was the music supervisor for the film according to the discography section of this great website. Does anyone know if Robbie has any connection to the Smithsonian Institution's Museum of the American Indian? I understand that the construction of that museum is moving along quickly now, though I'm not sure of the opening date.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 02:46:38 CET 2003 from 1cust123.tnt2.hackensack.nj.da.uu.net (67.235.142.123)

Ray G

Subject: Ed Voci......... what I know about Blondie Chaplin

I saw the Stones on the Bridges to Babylon Tour and was very suprised when Mick introduced Blondie Chaplin as one of the backup singers. Blondie is from South Africa I believe and has had a pretty diverse career.

He was discovered by Carl Wilson of the Beach Boys. Carl had wanted and I think did sign Blondies band to the Beach Boys own label, Brothers Records (I can't think of the name of his band though). Then around 1970 when Bruce Johnson left the Beach Boys and Dennis Wilson injured his hand and was unable to play drums Blondie and his bandmate/drummer Ricky Fataar where asked to join the Beach Boys. The two recorded on the Beach Boys Holland album and toured as well. Blondie had the destinction of singing lead on a classic Beach Boys song called "Sail on Sailor. The two can also be heard on the Beach Boys excellent non-overdubbed live album called "In Concert". One of the things I find intresting about the "In Concert" album is the fact that Blondie was covering Carl Wilson and Al Jardines vocal parts, reason being that Carl and Al took turns covering Brian Wilsons falsetto parts. Blondie also did a good job on guitar, if you listen closely you will notice that he doubles some of Carl Wilsons lead guitar parts which makes for a nice effect.

I basically never heard of him again until I saw the Stones on the "Bridges" tour and then went on to find out about his involment with the Band. So hats off to Blondie... an official ex-Beach Boy, a sort of ex-Band member, and a touring musician with the Stones for the past few tours. NOT TOO SHABBY!!!

Entered at Mon Jan 20 01:43:02 CET 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Tiny Monster

Subject: Stones ...

By the way ... Did Sheryl Crow look HOT in those pants last night or what ?!?! ...

Entered at Mon Jan 20 01:40:18 CET 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Tiny Monster

Subject: Thanks Butch

Thanks Butch, I don't know where my contact got that info. ...

Have a nice holiday

Raiders or Titans ? ...

Entered at Mon Jan 20 00:46:50 CET 2003 from host81-132-21-168.in-addr.btopenworld.com (81.132.21.168)

Lifeboy

Sorry to see all the shit thats been going down. I've been away for a couple of days and just spent the last hour trawling through the entries...and it's a bit of a pirahna's nest!

I remember when I was a kid and my Brother and I would be fighting and my Dad would say "Pack it in or I'll bang your heads together", well I can't really aply that in this case but another one of his well used phrases was "Manners cost nothing!"

I've not been coming here very long and I've never hung around any web places as much as I do here. I like it here, I come here at least five times a day if I'm not too busy. Maybe I should get out more! Most people here seem to be really sound. When I posted some stuff about wanting to holiday in the Woodstock area I got some really nice and helpful response. I also mailed Jan to pick his brains on the subject and he was also really helpful and friendly. I've learned all kinds of things from this site and GB and met a couple of the guys who come here. I've had some great music recommended to me. I even had a couple of the fellas telling me how to work my DVD player the other week because I was too daft to suss out some of it's workings! I just think that it was great that they all gladly offered me advice on something so unconnected to The Band just out of goodwill.Thank you kindly! I'm still trawling through the info\articles\photos etc on this site and enjoying it immensely.

Sorry, I'm waffling on a bit like a soppy arse here, I guess I'm trying to say that this place really doesn't and shouldn't have to be such hard work, especially not for yer man Jan who is a major dude that it can be really cool and I'd be sad to see it go. Plain and Simple.

Entered at Mon Jan 20 00:48:24 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

butch

Subject: tiny monster

hey,,, no,, Levon was not in the studio with John Hiatt any time this year,,, he & i did go to the EGG in albany to see his solo show,, but thats the extent,,,,,,, bubbaband@aol.com

Entered at Mon Jan 20 00:44:06 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ed Voci

Subject: Blondie Chaplin

Like a lot of others, I saw Blondie Chaplin last night sing and play with the Stones on HBO. I've always been curious about him, but know little about what he does. I saw him fill in for Richard when The Band played a show in Chicago a week after Richard passed; I saw him sit in with The Band at one of the L.A. House of Blues shows in 1996; "Sons of Chaplin" appears along with The Band on the Winterland show bill; and I pick up bits and pieces on him from the GB. Then, boom, he's playing with the Stones. If anyone can shed a little or, preferably, a lot more light on BC, it would be appreciated.

Speaking of the Stones, they give me more hope for the future of rock & roll than anything else right now. What a show. Amazing. My nine year-old daughter climbed out of bed to see what the Rolling Stones were all about and, seeing Mick said, "He looks like Steven Tyler." My jaw dropped. Apparently Tyler had appeared recently on a kids' show as Santa Claus. She thought Cheryl Crow looked "gross", though I respectfully and carefully, ah, disagreed. edwardvoci at aol.com

Entered at Mon Jan 20 00:42:24 CET 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Tiny Monster

Subject: Helm/Hiatt

Hey Butch ?!?! ... I've been trying for days to get this question answered ... Was Levon in the studio this past year anytime or plan in the near future to record on John Hiatt's upcoming release? ... I heard there was mention of it in the "What's new" section but I haven't been able to find anything ??? ...

As for the Guest Board going away, that would be a shame. Think of it this way. This is a microcosm of your life.

PEACE

Entered at Mon Jan 20 00:40:11 CET 2003 from nrwl-sh5-port43.snet.net (204.60.239.43)

lg10 and mid

Subject: whispering pines cd

After months of arduous searching for the elusive Richard Manuel cd, Whispering Pines, we were finally able to locate it in of all places Woodstock. Right there on Tinker Street, at a music shop called Rhythms. And boy was it worth the price and the search... all good things come to those who wait. Richard sounds incredible and is joined by Rick on a few numbers. This cd is a treasure for anyone who appreciates his musical abilities. Recorded just months before his passing, it leaves a lasting reminder of just how talented he was, and how sorely he is missed.* We are interested in Butch's email address, our email address is lilmid@hotmail.com. We have a Band related question we do not care to post in here. Thank you Larry and Misty

Entered at Mon Jan 20 00:02:04 CET 2003 from 1cust91.tnt3.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.153.91)

Charlie Young

Subject: Closing Time (?),The Beatles, The Band, Haints & Saints

If Jan has to shut this place down I hope there will be a warning, so we can have a "last waltz" of sorts and let everyone say farewell to this very human cyber community. I would be willing to pat some sort of (reasonable) fee to help keep this ship afloat, but don't know if enough of us feel that way to make it work.

Anyway, I think this site has helped my knowledge of The Band tremendously, and people such as David Powell, Peter Viney and Pat Brennan have been like professors in teaching about everything from "Blonde on Blonde" master recordings to Van the Man rareties and the American Civil War.

The site's trips into politics and religion have gotten bumpy and sometimes too much intimate information and bickering has made me want to utter the line my father used when he was a platoon leader in the Marines: "that sounds like a personal problem--you should see the chaplain."

I suppose if this site went away I would pick up some extra time for reading books and might even selectively turn on the boob tube as well. There was a great episode of Rod Serling's classic "The Twilight Zone" on the SciFi network yesterday that used an obscure regional word from the American South, one that was once discussed here in the context of a line from The Band's first album. The line "he's a haint" turned up in the Serling show episode about a rural Southern guy in the 1920s who popped out of his casket a couple of days after the local doctor declared him dead. The first thing I thought of, of course, was "haints and saints don't bother me, I'm not alone you see..."

Finally I just wanted to post the link above to an interesting story that a friend sent me from the Memphis newspaper last month. It's about an audience recording from a concert by the Beatles there in 1966 and the two women who recorded it.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 23:46:09 CET 2003 from 1cust61.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.61)

Crabgrass

Subject: Reggae

Click above link to read interesting article on the face of present day reggae - from The Guardian.

djy15_at_hotmail.com

Entered at Sun Jan 19 22:39:43 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Joe

Richie Walters the mandolin player from Oxford Depot is a workmate of mine. Catch their show next time if possible, or pick up their cd. They're pretty darn good. We'll both be at Bodles to catch the Barn Burners on Feb. 22nd.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 22:25:57 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Bumbles

Subject: Generic Affirmation of Support

Awesome Site!!!
The Band Rocks!!!!!
Keep It Up!!!!!!!

Entered at Sun Jan 19 22:03:48 CET 2003 from 66-121-52-2.covenanthealth.org (66.121.52.2)

Howard

Just got done viewing Al Kooper's web page. He lists Big Pink as one of his all time favorites. Peace Everyone.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 21:43:20 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

It isn't the straying away from music that's the problem as much as people just being mean spirited asses to other people.

"Threads don't kill guestbooks - people kill guestbooks" - Bayou Sam 2003

Lars - heck no - I liked the flapjack thread. If I didn't like it it would be tough luck on me, and I'd scroll by. Hell, I was a big part of the pizza thread. It's the political threads that get ugly. Of course there are people who get ugly just for the sake of doing it no matter what the thread is. Bad seeds.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 21:24:06 CET 2003 from cdm-66-255-149-tyrd.cox-internet.com (66.76.255.149)

BANDfan

Thank you for the info. Peace, Love, and Music all. ===:::

Entered at Sun Jan 19 19:32:00 CET 2003 from dialup-1018.dublin.iol.ie (193.203.147.250)

Hank

Subject: Take a Load Off.........

Last night, 'roundabout 6-7PM, I was waiting for a ride home from the missus at a bar called Charlies, here in Cork.....I overheard two guys talking about TLW....describing it in great detail to another....they were drunk in that sorta bar-half-empty-at-6PM -Rainy-Saturday night sorta way......I was tempted to join in their conversation.....but then I thought "nah.....might lead to an argument...."

Crabby....I learned the intro of "The Weight" from...a drummer!.....Sometimes, we have fun 'round these parts with two guitars playing the BP intro simultaneously with TLW intro......sounds weird but funny.......

I heard that Shane McGowan is dedicating his song, "If I Should Fall From Grace with God", to Pete Townsend at his gigs recently..........

Entered at Sun Jan 19 18:29:59 CET 2003 from (208.51.156.11)

Lars

Subject: misc

I was supposed to go see a bluegrass show last night (Oxford Depot at the Warwick Winery), had my tickets waiting for me at the door, but I wasn't up to it so I stayed home and watched the Stones on HBO. Like the sign said, "The Stones take a 'Lickin' (40) and keep on tickin." ...or something like that. It was good to see Blondie Chaplin (Rick and Sredni went to Austrailia for a tour a long time ago, Rick's mentioned, at different shows, how he and Blondie were walking on the beach and came upon an "open" (nudists') beach and were told they had to undress or get out). Anyway, (sorry for the digression) I thought The Stones looked great. I didn't know Jaggar could play guitar. Cheryl Crow is either a great actress or she really is fond of Mick, they seemed quite close. Keith Richard still plays that guitar in a crouched position, good to see the old knees are holding up. Mick can work an audience (MSG looked packed), he can still skip along the stage (long may he skip).

In contrast, The Band always seemed to be playing the music for the music's sake. No skipping, unless you count Rick's dancing, but I think he always did that to keep the beat, he couldn't stop himself from dancing. In TLW, when Rick was done with his "Stagefright" vocal, he turned around and really rocked when they "brought it home." In think the others were just locked into the music, I wonder if they could even hear the applause at the end of each song..... Rick would frequently stop playing at the end and tip his bass (or guitar) to look for broken strings....Levon and Randy always seemed to enjoy each other's company, I used to wonder if Levon was trying to push Randy's buttons by saying something that would make him laugh....Garth would sometimes be hidden from view, all you could see coming up over the top of his organ/musical sanctuary were his fingers........At Carnegie Hall his head was down on the organ and his eyes were closed, I was beginning to get worried, but I noticed his fingers were still alive...Levon was always there in "the best seat in the house" and (in my opinion) when he took over on vocals I'd be thinking "this is it...it doesn't get any better than this."

Let's see....random thoughts...I've got to get some work done on the woodpile before the football games start....I was surprised to read that Bayou Sam ISN'T angry with me about my flapjack remark (bless yo heart)....Dave Z. must have a lot of miles on that jeep, how are the shocks?.... Butch always used to ask me if I was behaving myself (and he seemed in earnest)- I don't know what kind of stories he's heard about me, but I deny every one of them. Then I ask if HE'S behaving, but we both know we're talking about his strict diet. He's got a lot of courage the way he fights his health , he's described his problem here in the gb..... I miss watching Jimmy Eppard's performances....Little Elmo looks quite happy these days (if only he could get shorter ....)....Jim Weider seems to always play better at each show, I am in awe of what he can do with a guitar...I think the JWB is at it's best when Mark Poley and Tom Izzo are up there helping out....Let's face it, I'm just putting off my woodpile work. Hell, it's almost zero out there and I doubt if I could get my chain saw going. Somebody probably stole the damn thing anyway, so the smart play for me is to conserve my strength and listen to some Band music.

That's my plan and I'm sticking to it.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 18:29:51 CET 2003 from ppp79.a1-1.56k.execulink.com (209.239.1.79)

Paul Godfrey

Subject: GB

Dear Jan,

It is rare to find such a current and complete musical resourse as the BAND site.

One would hope that as a last look at loosing the site, you might consider deleting the GB but keeping all the other resources. Then the chat room might be used for what it is...a chat room.

If you would allow an email address for sending in "What's New" items that would keep us up to date.

It has been a great ride and I thank you.

Shine On! Paul Godfrey

Entered at Sun Jan 19 18:26:42 CET 2003 from cpe0080c6f00eff-cm014270105631.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.156.103.95)

Toronto Craig

Butch- you put it very well.

As a casual observer here it's pretty clear that we can resolve this very easily. The 1st time someone crosses the line taking them out of the realm of music, say to politics, war, religion and all the extraneous sludge that goes on here, make sure we all jump on him/her quickly and end it. This is a music site and even though it seems we stretch even those boundaries to their limit at times, if it stays music then the worst case scenario will be some people will, say, appreciate Dylan and some like me, can't stand the guy. Pretty tough to get insulting or indignant over that stuff, methinks.

Practice K.I.T.T.

Keep It To Tunes ! TC

Entered at Sun Jan 19 18:01:03 CET 2003 from du-tele3-056.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.56)

Peter Viney

Great post, Butch.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 17:44:42 CET 2003 from 1cust83.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (67.250.109.83)

Rollie

I'm with you brother!

Entered at Sun Jan 19 17:42:48 CET 2003 from 1cust83.tnt1.idaho-falls.id.da.uu.net (67.250.109.83)

Rollie

Calvin, get all three you mentioned. All have gems making each piece worth while.As well ,I have acquired numerous early ,live Butter recordings. Let me know if you're interested.---Jeffrey(oops,I mean Rollie.Yeah that's right,I'm using code names!!)

Entered at Sun Jan 19 17:40:24 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

JTull Fan

Subject: Stones on HBO/emails

I can be found at us2inva at excite.com. I also prefer the emails back; I really don't care how much spam goes into my secondary email address anyway.it's ironic to me that those doing the apologizing out here are the 'good eggs' who don't need to apologize for anything! I think it shows class on their behalf, and I thank them for it. THE STONES: I agree it was agreat show and setlist last night, but I was dissapointed in the sound/production values. Maybe it was me, my mood, or tv system, but I just didn't feel 'there'. I could tell the band was performing well, but it just didn't translate technically for me. Oh well. I was also impresed how Mick & Co. could still perform such a physical show at their age as well as they did. Kind of makes me sad to think that the likes of Lennon/Harrison and Danko/Manuel would be in the same age range if they were still with us, and we could be enjoying gtheir performances as well.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 17:40:18 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

butch

a whole place dedicated to you guys,,,( rick was still with us, then )

not being a computer guy,, he couldnt believe it,,,,

Amy, his daughter , & i showed him some of this wonderful resource,,,,,& he had the typical reaction ,,, ( Larry Campbell said the same thing about his ) "This place knows more about me than i do,"

true,,, but funny,,,

over the years Jan had this home for us,,,ive posted shows here,,,given ya reviews,,,told ya what Levon's reaction was, ( when appropriate )to some musical thing,,& tried to be one link to the fellas from here,,, to share my good fortune,,,

but the ugliness of the big world has found its way to this smaller world,,, & its too bad,,,

im as much to blame as anyone,,,& we are all responsible,,,,

so, lets put the rancor away & get back to where we once belonged,,,,

THE BAND ,,,,,,,,,,,,,before we lose our home,,,,,,

thanks jan,, for before,, for now,, & hopefully,, for the future,,,,,,

Entered at Sun Jan 19 17:17:50 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Calvin

Peter, I dont think Whiney Viney was who you think it was. About 2 weeks ago somebody kept attacking me on comments concerning Joni Mitchell-and then they also attacked someone else (whose name fails me) on another group-each time it was from an AOL Address and the name was a play on the original posters name/smells like an MO to me.

It anyone familiar with the Band The Old 97s. I've recently purchased their last 2 albums as well as One of their members, Rhett Miller, solo discs. And so far I'm very taken with this bands up tempo, fun style, of quality music. It reminds me a lot of the 90s Bands live shows. Just a good group of guys humming along, playing some rip roaring good tunes while enjoying the heck out of playing them. Nothing beats finding a new band the focus on for a while. That and reading all of Willa Cather's novels, another new find, should get me through the winter.

I recently tracked down a record lable website because they were releasing a lot of Richie Furay stuff on CD that had been unavaliable until now. I also find they are releasing 3 Paul Butterfield Blues Band CDs. Given that the website lists them as featuring David Sanborn and they are released as Blues Band instead of Better Days I'm assuming they are from the 69-71 time frame. According to most music sources the first 3 Butterfield Albums are the only ones worth spending money on, but as I have a few Better Days CDs I know that is nonsense can anyone give feedback on IN MY OWN DREAM, KEEP ON MOVING, and SOMETIMES I JUST FEEL LIKE SMILING.

As a final thought, I also think restoration of Emails addresses isnt a bad idea-yes the spam sucks, but I do think things got confrontational after we were unable to Email someone and say "Hey, that isnt exactly what I meant, and I'm sorry." I can cite a couple of times that happened to me and things didnt wind up get poured onto the GB.

Yazooman has had a Yahoo club called Music From The Big Pink for years, so whoever floated that idea, it already exists. Supratik is a great guy and I also consider him a friend who I hope to meet someday.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 17:13:50 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

dz agin

Entered at Sun Jan 19 17:07:40 CET 2003 from du-tele3-003.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.3)

Peter Viney

There's a new Van Morrison bootleg around called "Catalog Strays 1965-2000". This 3 CD set has two Band-related songs on it, "4% Pantomime" and "Wonderful Remark". The former is the Cahoots track, and the latter is the Robbie produced and Robbie guitar track off 'King of Comedy". If you haven't got the latter, the cheapest route is still "Best of Van Morrison" Volume 1. The boot rounds up lots of officially released B-sides and sessions.

Also on sale at the record fair today was a lavish Dylan box set of "The Rolling Thunder-2 Rehearsals" with 4 CDs. Too expensive (£35) and the recent official release makes it unecessary, but like so many bootlegs I suspect it results from Columbia taking the tapes out of their boxes to do the new official set. Cheekily, for a bootleg, it has the official Columbia logo and name on the box. No new Band items were on sale, but Academy of Outtakes, Roosevelt Stadium, Washinton (sic) DC, and Friends & Other Strangers were all around. I saw an article recently suggesting that the days of record fairs were numbered, because turnover has fallen by 50% in the last year.

My e-mail address is viney_at_mailbox.co.uk. Insults and lies may be directed there rather than waved around trying to cause trouble here. I suspect that the deletion of e-mail addresses, which was forced on the site by the Nigerian begging letters, has not helped things because it stops personal contact over disputes.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 16:58:56 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Dave Z

Subject: Crabby Jockey Hockey Docket No. BANDGB

Plan A: File restraining order on any GBer caught licking fingers after eating pancakes.
Plan B: Protest global warning... from inside (not inside the gov't, inside your igloo, you idiot).
Plan C: Drink lots of whiney.
Plan D: Run numerous options, bills, riders, legislation, tax cuts, etc,... by your own personal CFO or budgetary head... and watch her crush them with a smile on her face... hand you a runney nosed Elmo fan... say nice try... and split before you are awake.
Plan E: Daydream about how it's gonna be when you hear the music... drink the beer... just drive... all to the accompany-ament (it's early) of Elmo sing songs...
Plan F: That's right, you are...

Entered at Sun Jan 19 16:56:52 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ed Voci

Subject: BANDFan; video footage; Crabgrass

There is a video (and laserdisc, at least) of the Woodstock "lost performances" including The Band performing The Weight. It's great; someone here recently recalled Levon's and Rick's verbal interplay between lyrics. I, like others, die a slow death everytime we think of what it would have meant for The Band to have been included in the Woodstock movie. As far as the The Band-RR goes, there is a U.S. released "The Band Is Back" laserdisc and video and there are Japanese import laser discs from the 1980's, too. From the 1990's there is the New Orleans Jazz Fest concert on video, laser and DVD (The Band opened for the Allman Brothers who are not on the recordings) and I recently found (six months ago) "The Band Live at Loreley" DVD which did not give a date, but from the material performed appears to have been recorded between HOH and Jubiliation (the earliest copyright date is 1996; there are no liner notes). Others here will know more. /n Good for you, Crabgrass. Love to hear from you. edwardvoci@oal.com

Entered at Sun Jan 19 16:32:27 CET 2003 from hvc-24-169-149-224.hvc.rr.com (24.169.149.224)

TBear

Subject: Stones/HBO

Hey all, figured I'd give a shout in, anyone catch the Stones last night on HBO? It was a great show and I know NYC buzzes when they are in town. The show featured Blondie Chaplin, a good friend of Danko's and other Band members. Rick and Blondie used to gig together, I saw them many times in days gone. Garth played the y2k show in NYC with him. I was actually a little bittersweet watching, thinking that this band has been playing over 40 years and outlived The Beatles, Zeppelin, The Band etc etc etc. but they can still put on a awesome show, it's not the original 5, but a working band of 15 + to pull it all off. Get your rocks on! But, can someone do something about Sheryl Crow? She's everywhere! hahaha - Peace out - TBear

Entered at Sun Jan 19 16:30:56 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

B Sam - a three-for, sorry

forgot - wipeout1960 at yahoodotcom

Entered at Sun Jan 19 16:28:37 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Subject: flapjacks

It's funny that someone mentioned flapjacks (pancakes around here) the other day. I remember thinking one time that The Band was like a nice stack of flapjacks. Picture the way a hot pile of them sits on a plate with melting butter on top - how well that all works together. Then the maple syrup flowing across the whole thing just locks it together.

The maple syrup is Garth by the way.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 16:22:48 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Subject: more on the current climate - and an attempt to return to music

I think that running the risk of not enjoying rollies posts anymore is too great a risk to fool around with :-)

Crabby = I like some of the thought's you posted. That little paragraph you had after Plan C was right on and will hopefully make one or two folks take a look a themselves.It's interesting - we are fortunate that we have direct lines to some Band guys through people in here who know, or knew them. But some of those posters carry it MUCH better than others. I think the ones who don't flaunt it are the the ones that have - or had - a true freindship with that Band guy. The ones that think they're hot-shit (sorry for the curse Crabby) are not only annoying, but sad. You can decide who you are - or maybe you can't.

The person who posted as "Winey Viney" is a textbook example of someone trying very hard to get this place shut down. I'm sorry I even acknowledged it.

It's getting like a funeral service in here. Shit. Everyone is apologising and saying goodbye. How about we try to lift it up again and move onward with the feeling that Jan won't have to close up, and we be more aware in the future of what we need to do.

I would also think that Jagger deserves the "best frontman" title. We'd have to tip out hat to Tina Turner who was supossedly on the same bill with the Stones way back when, and gave Mick some advice and pointers on shaking it up on stage - and Tina can shake it like nobody else.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 15:20:55 CET 2003 from h66-59-176-122.gtconnect.net (66.59.176.122)

Serge

That last "Whiney Viney" was not mine. YOU are perpetuating the problem. Everytime you accuse me, I'll get on your ass. Now apologize to me, as you have done so often in the past, for assuming too much. I have never gone to Jan with a beef. Never. I don't have to. So stop your crap and go drink your "fine wine", and go find another captive audience to impress.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 14:46:43 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Joe

According to "This Day in Rock & Roll History" it was 9 years ago today that "The Band" was inducted into the "R&R Hall of Fame"

Entered at Sun Jan 19 14:45:33 CET 2003 from dialin-218-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.1.218)

Gene

Global Warming...my as*!!!

Entered at Sun Jan 19 14:43:48 CET 2003 from ts09-079.dublin.indigo.ie (194.125.174.79)

Mike

Just stumbled in on this site, looks great. The Band are my all-time favourite.....eh band. Or at least one of them. I will check back again definitely.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 12:46:41 CET 2003 from mcha-aj185.taconic.net (205.231.150.185)

Lil

I've been reading all the posts since yesterday, and I have a few things I'd like to say.
First, I'd also like to apologize to anyone I may have been nasty to in here. I'm going to make a conscious effort from now on to _not_ get riled, and if I find myself doing so, I'm shutting the computer off and finding something more constructive to do.
Second: I'd like to consider Jan's post from yesterday the final warning. I've mentioned to everyone here before that he's only been keeping this gb open for _us_, and I think he made very clear _his_ feelings about it. His life would be a whole lot simpler if he were to shut down all the interactive parts of this site (gb and chat room). So please... let's make him feel like giving us one more chance was worth it.
And lastly, as nice as all these apologies are, I think perhaps we should try and get back to what we all came here for in the first place. It seems that we're all feeling a little lost for direction right now, so I'd like to ask Mr Powell or Bones to please steer us in the right direction. Thanks.

Have a good day everyone. Hug Jan.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 11:56:09 CET 2003 from (203.14.169.19)

Nancy

Hey Crabgrass: I also think that restoration of email addresses would be a positive move for the return of a more harmonious GB; however Jan's weary sounding words convince me that nothing's going to save the GB this time.

While it might just be coincidence at work, it seems to me that the end of email addresses (and therefore the potential for personal contact with someone with whom you strongly agree or disagree) has taken some sense of fairness or responsibility away from people posting here. The GB feels more anonymous without email addresses, and it looks like some people just get on here now and shoot from the hip, in a way that I remember as only happening now and again a couple of years ago.

On a personal level, I used to enjoy personal messages from other posters via email. While you risk having the cynical and mean-spirited take a cheap shot at you if you comment publicly, its nice to share humorous, irreverent, or personal comments with one person who could be on something like the same wavelength as yourself. Having said that, I understand why the removal of the old email address format was necessary.

If the GB does get shut down, then like Brien said, thanks for the ride. It's been fun and informative.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 11:46:39 CET 2003 from du-tele3-065.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.65)

Peter Viney

Entered at Sun Jan 19 11:06:01 CET 2003 from 1cust90.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.90)

Crabgrass

Subject: Saving the Band Website!!

Well, I've been brainstorming all day, and am happy to report that I have devised several practical methods to save this website for future generations and ensure the continuation of the Guestbook!!

PLAN A - A small group of half a dozen or so of the more radical and adventurous Guestbook posters is sent to Norway. They journey to the quaint sleepy town where the educational institution which hosts The Band Website is located and during the night break into the chambers of the "admins," post a list of demands on the doors, barricade themselves inside, and chain themselves to the furniture. When morning arrives, the startled "admins" discover what has transpired and plead with the group who loudly sing protest songs and firmly state that they will not be moved until all their demands are met!! (These include free perpetual maintenance and upgrading of the Band website server, freedom of speech for all Guestbook posters (except for severe abusive insults), and tripling the webmaster's salary for the academic position which he holds -- as well as giving him an extra 6 weeks of annual vacation time. (Hey, this kind of tactic worked back in the '60s, so why not now?)

PLAN B - The Guestbook radicals "liberate" the web server from the school and kidnap the webmaster. Both are placed on a stolen barge which is towed out to sea and set adrift somewhere in mid-Atlantic waters. The server is hooked up to the internet via satellite and the webmaster is provided with a fishing pole and habachi in order to maintain indefinite self-sufficiency while keeping the site operational. Although this proves somewhat of a hardship, the webmaster decides to make the best of the situation simply because he loves The Band so much -- and also has a lot of time on his hands. (Somewhat complex logistically, but quite effective.)

PLAN C - Guestbook posters who have severely offended, namecalled, or insulted other posters apologize in the Guestbook and promise to refrain from such behavior in future. The "admins" are pleased and voluntarily give the webmaster a hefty pay raise for the performance of his academic duties plus a bonus for running the website. (Some posters have already chosen this method which is the least complicated to execute and least expensive.)

I find it curious and somewhat ironic that at least two of the most abusive, foul-mouthed, and ethnic-group-bashing posters (Yes, that's exactly who I'm referring to -- you guessed right!) happen to be longtime personal friends of original members of The Band. I view such behavior not only as a disservice to those members, but as an unflattering reflection upon them whether still living or not.

Personally, although I have certainly derided the views, tastes, and attitudes of other posters from time to time, I have from the start chosen not to mention other posters by name or directly insult anyone with obscenities or name calling. And I have mentioned by name only the webmaster himself (with whom I communicate occasionally by e-mail) and several posters that I have met in person. BTW I've never been seriously offended by any comments directed at me but then again I don't recall having to endure the severe and repeated barrage of foul-mouthed insults that some others have received.

As to why some posters have a need to use obscene language (for abuse purposes or otherwise) I can only speculate that they were severely repressed during childhood or maybe just never grew up. For those individuals who have a continuing need to see obscene words in print I suggest using a magic marker in public restrooms (hopefully not the same ones I occasionally use when nature calls). Kids occasionally read and post in the Guestbook - why should they have to view this kind of crudeness?

Lastly, and somewhat related, I suggest that a space to place e-mail addresses be once again restored to the "Sign the Guestbook" page. Not as before, so that robot programs can steal them for placement on junkmail lists but instead in a "fill-in-the-blanks" manner with the word "at" in the middle ( e.g. ___ at ___ ) so as to foil robots searching for the "@" sign. It shouldn't be "required" of course. If the page isn't altered in this manner obviously the thing to do if you wish other posters to communicate with you is to simply place a current e-mail address at the end of your post.

[Anyway, PLANS A, B, or C - take your pick!!]

Entered at Sun Jan 19 08:13:13 CET 2003 from (203.197.126.107)

Yazooman

Tanx to Gene, Ilkka, Kalervo, Steve Knowlton...

Entered at Sun Jan 19 07:56:56 CET 2003 from (203.197.126.107)

Yazooman

There are some people here who come from countries, where English is not the mother tongue, and where nobody knows The Band. For all those of us, this place was a wonderful meeting place where we learnt a lot, and where we tried to put in our small bit too, in whatever way we could. Its been a good time and I hope that things don't come to an end here. Some of us don't have any other place to talk The Band.

Personally I haven't really had a great time on my hand but over the 3 years (it seems so long now) that I have been here, I made some friends - Diamond Lil, Crabgrass, Calvin, Susan, Siegfried (still around?), Donna frm Philly (hieee...)and so on (even Bob Wigo with whom I had an argument once, but who was so gracious in his mails). There have been times when I haven't agreed to what they have said, but I don't hate/dislike them for that, and I haven't abused them for that. I think they are great people and I hope someday I shall be meeting them.

I am not going to advise anyone here for you are all smart people. So I'll just hope that you guys do what you think is right for you to do. It would be a pity if we died with regrets in our head.

Thanx Jan. Thanx all who helped.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 07:48:57 CET 2003 from ottawa-ppp3517239.sympatico.ca (206.172.191.110)

Cousin Paul

Subject: Where do we go from here? I have no way of knowing.

Now that everybody has said they were sorry, why don't we get back to the matter at hand, Peace, Love, and Music. As Andy R. used to say," Give you people an inch and you will try to measure it!" Spread the news, Pepete Rouge is coming to town.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 05:55:10 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Brien Sz

Entered at Sun Jan 19 05:32:11 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Whiney Viney

Entered at Sun Jan 19 05:17:36 CET 2003 from dialup-67.27.107.8.dial1.buffalo1.level3.net (67.27.107.8)

G-Man

Subject: Band Connection

Bobby Keys and Blondie C helpin the Stones out!! A litle Band/LHBB connection!! Jan don't let the _ hit lead to closin down the GB.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 04:20:36 CET 2003 from 1cust96.tnt2.pocatello.id.da.uu.net (65.239.51.96)

Rollie

Well, if Jan shuts this thing down,I'll never post in here again!!! And I'm not kidding.You watch!!!!!!

Entered at Sun Jan 19 04:05:52 CET 2003 from cdm-66-255-149-tyrd.cox-internet.com (66.76.255.149)

BANDfan

That should read Best FrontMEN on the subject.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 04:04:43 CET 2003 from cdm-66-255-149-tyrd.cox-internet.com (66.76.255.149)

BANDfan

Mick Jagger is good yes, but Jim Morrison should be up there with him. :) Peace, Love, Music all. ==:::

Entered at Sun Jan 19 03:56:59 CET 2003 from h0050ba8ceef5.ne.client2.attbi.com (66.31.105.135)

Long Distance Operator

The discussion begins and ends with Michael Philip Jagger.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 03:25:31 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Calvin

After my initial chastisement of Tenn I decided to mind by own business and stay out of this mess. But seriously folks, considering what Jan does to run this site, what he has to put up with from all of us-for some of us to then turn around and criticize him for not permitting free speech? Are you out of your freaking minds? This isnt a democracy, this is someone's "house" that we've been allowed to hang out in and shoot the breeze in for the last few years. If he doesnt want us cluttering up his living room with cr*p-respect the man and dont clutter.

I'd like to add my apologies to Bob's-if I've ever crossed the line and done something that hurt another in here, I am sorry, and I hope this GB goes on for many years.

On a musical note the second Souther, Hillman and Furay Album has been released on CD by the same wonderful lable that released the 3 Richie Furay Solo Albums.

Entered at Sun Jan 19 02:02:47 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Subject: relevant words of wisdom

Isn't it a pity, Isn't it a shame

How we break each others hearts, and cause each other pain

How we take each others love, without thinking anymore

Forgetting to give back, Isn't it a pity.

Something's take so long, but how do I explain

When not too many people, can see we're all the same

And because of all their tears, they're eyes can't hope to see

The beauty that surrounds them - oh

Isn't it a pity -

George Harrison

Entered at Sun Jan 19 01:39:42 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Ed Voci

Subject: democracy, the future of this GB

This GB should not shut down for all the good reasons known to all. If Jan or his bosses don't want to or cannot continue to host, there should be an opportunity for an orderly transition to a new host (though figuring out exactly who will be the new host would prove to be a REAL treat)-- or maybe two hosts (one for Levonistas and another for Robertsonians).

My two cents on the future: the more democracy the better (thanks, Empty Now, for reminding us what this and other sites are really about). With very few exceptions, prohibition against expressing ideas and opinions is worse than the worst speech. To quote someone with whom I disagreed, "scroll on by" if you don't like the words or the source. If a post gets no response, that says something. If people choose to leave, that's their choice and a statement in and of itself. If people cannot defend what they say, that tells you something as well. But, for crissakes, let people say what they want to say, ESPECIALLY in a place devoted to giving people a say.

I'm a little surprised 1) that anyone would expect harmony on a website about five men who, altough once united in musical brotherhood, ultimately could not get along and 2) that a university (as a bastion of "academic freedom"), as I understand Jan's boss to be, can not tolerate a bit of rancour. To borrow from another time, "Let it all hang out."

Entered at Sat Jan 18 23:53:19 CET 2003 from dial2a-232.i2eyenet.com (64.80.2.232)

Hi

Bye....maybe see ya next time....last call for the Bearsville show hilennoxatdellmaildotcom.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 23:41:41 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Youth & Family Services

Entered at Sat Jan 18 23:35:44 CET 2003 from bose-cp.bose.com (4.19.252.130)

The Great Bob Dylan

You'll never know the hurt I suffered

or the pain I rise above

and I'll never know the same about you

your holiness

or your kind of love

and it makes me feel so sorry

Entered at Sat Jan 18 23:05:38 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

bob wigo

To all here whom I have ever directed any sarcasm or derision of any sort I offer my apologies. Specifically, to BEG, Bumbles, BWNWIT and Crabgrass, I am sorry for any posts that may have been hurtful in any fashion. We all arrived here for the same reason.

To all of the wonderful contributors here, including those listed above, I offer my heartfelt gratitude for the daily enlightenments. The information shared on this site is beyond magnificent. I am amazed each and every day. The scope of knowledge shared is nearly incomprehensible at times. Thank you for taking me to "places" I may never have found otherwise.

Beyond all of that....thank you Jan for all the hard work, patience, direction, and, above all, your love of The Band.

I sincerely hope the door will remain open but will understand if another decision is made.

Peace

rwigoataol.com

Entered at Sat Jan 18 22:52:21 CET 2003 from 12-243-212-169.client.attbi.com (12.243.212.169)

King Whistle

Subject: GB

Well, in the event we do shut down, I would like to say the following (1) Thanks Jan. You have provided us a great opportunity to exchange ideas. I have looked forward to reading the postings here, daily, for years (tho less so recently, I must admit) (2) I appreciate the discussion here as they relate to the music. I ignore the other stuff. But I have been turned on to many records just from the expert discussion here. (3) If the GB goes down because of our folly, whether we have had good intentions or not, it is a shame. Shame on us.

God bless and good evening.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 22:31:33 CET 2003 from dax2.revealed.net (208.16.227.145)

Mike D.

JTull, I love Boddingtons too. And Blue Moon Ale as well (w/an orange wedge). Not much of a drinker because I have too high of a tolerance for it. Better ways to use my money anyhow.

Jan,I surely hope this site and guestbook are not shut down. This is the one place I look forward to coming to. From Peter V., to Crabgrass (never thought I'd say that! lol) to Bayou Sam and everyone in between. It'd be a darn shame, that's no doubt. This site opened up my mind to The Band's catalog of recordings (official and otherwise). I'd hate to see it all go down the drain. A pity!

Entered at Sat Jan 18 22:29:55 CET 2003 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.home.nl (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

Entered at Sat Jan 18 22:24:47 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Pehr = I have a very talented, guitar playing uncle, who can play anything from Bach to Led Zep - and play it well. He was surfing the net looking at guitar articles, and he somehow came across your article on this site about Robbie's guitar techniques. He realized that it was on the Band site that I keep telling him about. He also really enjoyed the article alotand found it very informative.

Just thought you'd like to hear that - or read it.

wipeout1960 at yahoo.com (forgot to add that to my last post)

Entered at Sat Jan 18 22:18:18 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

Subject: random thought's about the recent goings on

"big boy's bickering, fucking it up for everyone" - Paul McCartney

That could read "big boy's AND girls" around here lately. These blow ups seem to happen every now and then, but it seems to also get worse every time. Looking at the last 25-30 of the last posts - there is an amazing mix. There are people carrying on the crap that should have gone over to e-mail AGES ago.....you have the morons who just love to stir up trouble..... the ones who scream that we should stop this, and then they procede to continue in here, then apologise at the end of a long post.....the ones who try to totally steer us back with posting about something like flapjacks (bless their hearts).

We KNOW what needs to be done, but I guess we can't help ourselves sometimes. we need to take control of this. But you don't need me to tell you that.

I think it's a shame when someone discovers this site during a period like this. What a terrible, and wrong first impression to get of this great place.

BTW - I'm not voting for Jan for President, or a Nobel Peace Prize. I vote that we give the guy a little respect, and courtesy, and we keep our own asses in line.

The saddest thing I've read in here recently was Jan saying "I don't care". If you take a little surf around this site you'll see that he really does care - deep down.

I think that if a post pisses you off, you can make a mature comment about it. Some fool today didn't like something Viney said, so they came in under a different name and blasted him. That's the shit that's not cool. Disagree - that's fine. But don't be nasty, mean, and vindictive. Then if it consumes you to the point of no return then take it to e-mail and spare us - and Jan.

There's alot to be said for ignoring. Someone (John W?) that asked why we let some of those recent political comments go by. Because we're tired of dragging it through the mud (or is it blood) again in HERE.

Am I the only one who has noticed the amazing restraint displayed by Rollie during some of those political posts? -AND the guy went to The Last Waltz. Wasn't that a man.

I love coming to this site every day. My life won't be an empty void if it shuts down - but I'll sure miss it alot, and be damn aggrivated at the dumbass reason for the shut down. I'm willing to do whatever my small part is to keep it keepin' on. ARE YOU?

Entered at Sat Jan 18 21:30:56 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

John Donabie

Thank you David Powell for your true passion for music and all the sharing you have done with us. Thanks for Diamond Lil for being Diamond Lil. Thanks to Butch for keeping the door open. For those who need to take meds......please do so. Thanks to Serge for not thinking I am a pathetic asshole. For those who joined either the Levon" team or the "Robertson" team; when if fact none of you were asked even to play by the principals......please hand in your ball & glove.

Jusqu'à ce que Nous Rencontrons Encore Mes Amis.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 21:04:13 CET 2003 from mcha-ag079.taconic.net (205.231.29.14)

Lil

Have a good afternoon everyone. Hug Jan.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 20:33:57 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

JTull Fan

Subject: Turn off your mind relax and float downstream...

Jan, I hope you don't think my last post was directed at you, but rather at those who harp on every little thing to launch into an angry diatribe. MIKE D. : Boddington's, eh? My favorite! Too bad I gave up beer 7 months ago. Funny Catholic school story at my expense: I was somewhat chubby (ok, I was FAT) back in grade school, and one day while reaching for a ball on the far end of the playground (and Sister Ethel ALWAYS made us go out, even if it was minus 20 degrees and we got frostbite)I ripped my gray uniform pants all the way down the entire seat of my pants. So I had the embarrasment of walking all the way to the office with my hands trying to cover up best I could. Then my dad, who worked the night shift, brought me a pair of blue jeans to wear the rest of the day.So of course, when I finally changed and made it to class out of uniform, EVERYBODY new what happened. Fortunately, in high school I got in shape and to this day run 5 miles a day 5 times per week, and the kids who laughed at my expense, well some of them can't even walk up two flights of stairs. TULL SITE: I go by 'BandFan' out there, and got an email asking about the Richard Manuel cd! I directed this person to this site, so if you meet them, be nice! There email was '.il'. I wonder what country that is. EMPTY NOW: Please have a speedy recovery!

Entered at Sat Jan 18 20:28:55 CET 2003 from m198214181177.austin.cc.tx.us (198.214.181.177)

Pehr

Subject: Where else will I be able to go to discuss Link Wray?

Levon, Butch and Jim W.: Tour Texas!

Entered at Sat Jan 18 20:19:29 CET 2003 from du-tele3-033.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.33)

Peter Viney

Entered at Sat Jan 18 20:00:08 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

I posted earlier that this GB is a perfect model of democracy and i was really believing it. Theorethicising about democracy, it import less to cut some posts than the posters must apply a primer ethics rules of communication. I am really not the right person to preach anything, but my sensibilty increased seriously as my health fell, and i am ACTUALLY suffering to see any person here in the GB importuned in any manner.

Any one here observed that my gotha in music is in decreasing order Dylan, Jackson Browne, Kansas and The Band (Neither Levonistan Nor Robertsonnian, perhaps Dankoian I shall meet soon). I rediscovered The Band (through TLW) fortuitously in the hotest phase of the Algerian civil war, beneeth bombs, attacks, slained babies, and all the unhuman images you watched on the news. I dont wish to any one to live this ambiance, but in this case you easily understand why i was watching the movie for days, not as a refugee but as a SALVATION. All of fhese guys are magic, they are cool, they are good in the human sense and in the musical one. While you have not lived those instants, you underate what you own in your hands at the present moment. Cause anyone can imagine how happy i was the day i discovered this site, more exactly the GB, for the music first, and also hoping at least that some of The Band magic is here arround. I am not a pacemaker, but i guess i am becomming it at long. I was in the middle of the linguistic conflict in Belgium in late sixteens, i was in the islamist conflict in Algeria, enough enough.....,

Little misplaced words or dirty posts are nothing worthy comparatively to what we are likely to lose. I sincerly never felt a form of agression, sexism or racism anywhere in the posts. Come on where i’m in at this very moment, you’ll see what racism, sexism and aggression are. Long life Jan and thank you for all what you are doing

Amanda please, BEG I beg you

Entered at Sat Jan 18 19:59:23 CET 2003 from cdm-66-255-149-tyrd.cox-internet.com (66.76.255.149)

BANDfan

Is there any footage of The Band's performance at Woodstock or any footage of them reunited (minus R.R.)?

Entered at Sat Jan 18 19:40:17 CET 2003 from dialin-705-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.3.197)

Gene

Entered at Sat Jan 18 18:45:27 CET 2003 from dialin-705-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net (216.179.3.197)

Gene

Subject: alt guestbook

Me...I'd hate to see this guestbook shut down, it has happened before and I've experienced 'guestbook withdrawl'. Psychodramas and all, it's the best dang site on the interweb!

Therefore, in the tradition of that fine institution, the Yahoo Group: 'Bandtrades', I've taken the liberty of forming a new Yahoo Group: 'The Bandguestbook' for discussion of The Band, it's music, it's history, associated artists and related topics. Please feel free to check it out and join, if you like. You probably have to sign up for membership at Yahoo Groups first, but you can give totally bogus informations when you do, like I did. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thebandguestbook/

Entered at Sat Jan 18 18:27:23 CET 2003 from 1cust168.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.168)

Crabgrass

Subject: Depression

My copy of Brown has a green label and I bought it when it first came out. Didn't know about the orange or would have sought one in order to make my collection complete. Now I'm depressed!!

Also, depressed to think that I still haven't figured out how to play the intro to "The Weight" correctly although I've had more than 30 years to do it. It annoys me to see Hank Wedel play it so well. Maybe he can send the tab for it to Jan for inclusion in the site so I can learn it before the site is permanently closed down.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 17:55:34 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-011castocp0246.dialsprint.net (63.187.104.246)

Rollie

I can't believe an old sage like myself would ask this question,but which pressing came out first, the light green label, or the orange label?

Entered at Sat Jan 18 17:39:13 CET 2003 from c143wn2.wifi.halden.net (194.69.211.143)

jh

Post whatever you want, then, I don't care, and I stopped reading everything _years_ ago, anyway. I'm afraid we won't have this place around much longer, though. As mentioned earlier, the admins at the college that owns the servers and the equipment here is not very happy about hosting something like this.

And remember that _none_ of you have any right to demand _anything_ from me. I'm _very_ tired of all the e-mails telling me how to run this site and what to do and not to do. All e-mails about these matters will go directly into the trash can.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 17:39:02 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Lee

Any news reviews about the recent shows by Garth & Maud? I just noticed that Hubert Sumlin guested with the Rolling Stones at Madison Square Gdns.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 17:27:14 CET 2003 from (64.208.185.61)

Lars

Subject: Not sure yet-I'm going to "wing" it

(burp.)

Ah, morning has broken and, like Francis Scott Key, I'm glad to see our "banner" is still waving. You realize, of course, that Jan is probably on the brink of shutting this whole thing down. That's what's happened in the past: he'll give us warning and then he WILL carry through on it unless we stop all this nonsense. Since his last warning, I think the fighting has gotten worse.

I've already had my war in here. Looking back, it was a mistake, but it's POSSIBLE that I had an influence on my crazy alter-ego Gen. John Wayne. I thought bombing Serge's backyard was carrying it too far, but Gen. Wayne was out of control. The war ended with a single casualty: Serge's Chocolate Lab took a direct hit and I'll have to live with that. As for Gen Wayne, he died a couple of years ago, the last survivor of the War of 1812.

The difference between that "war" and this one going on now is that I always had a certain respect for Serge, even in the middle of the fray. I was really trying to show just how ridiculous all this gb fighting was, I always tried to portray Gen. Wayne as a gung-ho war monger who had a screw loose. In truth, I don't believe in war. I don't believe in violence (unless it's to protect myself). I DO believe that you have to forgive, to let things go. If you can't, then the battles should be fought via e-mail. That's what Serge and Peter did. Others have followed this same course. Take it outside, please. It's all spelled out for you by Jan on top of the gb entry page.

I'm not about to get in the middle of all these spats, I'm not gonna touch it. I really don't care, it's up to YOU to work it out. What does puzzle me is why some people feel they have to side with either Levon or RR. That's not our fight. I respect both of them a great deal, although I admit Levon has always been my favorite Band member. Another thing that puzzles me is why all of the sudden a lot of shit is being thrown at Peter Viney. Peter has done a lot for this gb, as has Serge. Peter has always taken the "high road" in his postings. What did he do wrong? He tried to restore harmony in here, and he got tarred and feathered. I suppose I'm next, but I'd prefer you go after Peter. I fall apart when people get angry with me.

All of this bad feeling reminds me of a story Sredni told me (he's got a lot of stories) when I was driving him back home after a gig last fall. It seems that whenever the boys would walk into a bad gig (the money's short, they want a longer set, etc.) Levon would turn to his band and yell out "I thought we all agreed we weren't gonna get horse-f***ed again."

How 'bout we lighten up?

Entered at Sat Jan 18 17:18:54 CET 2003 from mcha-af042.taconic.net (205.231.30.41)

Lil Again

Entered at Sat Jan 18 17:14:26 CET 2003 from mcha-af042.taconic.net (205.231.30.41)

Lil

Did anyone else catch the network movie on JFK Jr this past week? (I can't remember which network has been airing it, but it's not a major one). A mediocre movie at best (which I knew it would be since it just wasn't possible to cast anyone as good looking as the real thing :-) I did find it interesting though that Jackson Browne's attorneys are asking that the movie be pulled until references to his alleged abuse of Daryl Hannah are removed from it. In the film he's reffered to only as "Jackson" (no last name given). I wonder if this is what they call a loophole?

is anyone else planning to try to make the 'intimate evening with Garth' in March in Woodstock? I've already cleared my calendar and am truly looking forward to it. I wish I had more time for live music in my life.

JTull Fan: (Hi!).. Again, the foresight to store e-mail addresses before they were taken out of here wasn't mine, so could you please mail me when you have a moment? Thanks. d_lil at hotmail dot com

Have a good day everyone.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 17:10:22 CET 2003 from bob38.revealed.net (208.16.227.41)

Mike D.

JTull,

You come form a catholic school too? I didn't think anyone could relate. Boy did they ever try to get us kids to think alike and even dress alike. And lest I not forget the dress codes of a very strict order! Dress slacks, solid color shirts and that's it. Sneakers or tennis shoes were the only allowance.

I've moved beyond that and into an adult life with a wonderful wife, son and another on the way in March. Like everyone here, I've got responsibilities and a career/job. Recent activity here in the guestbook (no matter where fault lies), makes me realize just how short life is and what is really important. Any attacking of kids verbally or otherwise is going over the line. I'm a harmless person by nature but if my family were to be harmed...well, you get the picture.

In a rare instance, I FULLY (usually it's only partial)agree with Peter V. To sit down, have a drink and laugh at this absurdity might be just what is needed. And a big slice of humble pie too as well. I'll take a pint of Boddington's Bitter Ale instead of that wine Peter. or is that not an option? Maybe a little of Love And Mercy for one and all.

Mike

Entered at Sat Jan 18 16:45:21 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Look at Viney

I think this kind of rancorious statement tells you all you need to know about Viney's stupid ass. Levon may not be Armani rich but at least he never forgot where he came from and who or what got him there.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 16:34:48 CET 2003 from dialup049-a.ts552.cwt.esat.net (193.203.156.49)

Hank

Subject: Take what you need....and leave the rest!

The Civil War.......... indeed!

Entered at Sat Jan 18 15:48:14 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

JTull Fan

Subject: Getting tired

It used to be that this GB would boil over, we'd step back from the brink, and things would be fine for at least a month or two before it happened again. Now the shit is recurring every few days. Then we get assinine posts that say 'don't say this, or that will happen, don't say that or this other thing will erupt..' Well F*** IT! Are we mature, openminded adults or a bunch drooling imbeciles? I grew up spending 8 long years in repressed catholic school, with F****** Sister Ethel, Queen of the Thought Police, on our backs, always worried if this or that priviledge would be taken away should someone step out of line. Well, I am a professional, responsible, married adult now with career and responsibilities, and I will be G**damned if I am going to willingly subject myself to similar worries ever again. I love most of you and tolerate some, but if this site shuts down I've got the Tull site, and music actually is discussed out there along with other things, and none of this crap going on. And if somebody wants to make a wisecrack on that...

Entered at Sat Jan 18 14:58:36 CET 2003 from du-tele3-007.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.7)

Peter Viney

Peace … most of you in here I don’t know. I don’t even know BWNIT’s name for that matter. BWNIT and I had never made contact in fact. A lot of you I contact separately and count as cyber friends. And I count BEG as a very good cyber-friend, whatever you want to hint at, none of us agree all the time. I don’t want to see anyone out of here, not even Serge (well, sometimes Serge, but only for ten minutes then I cool down), and most certainly not Amanda. When the offending post got deleted, I had a post written saying that there is a line you never step over and that’s attacking family, and within that especially kids. I didn’t post because when I went back on line to do so, it had gone, and there was then no need. I kept right out of this dispute. I was saddened to see BWNIT go, because I think it was misdirected sense of humour, not malice. What annoyed me this morning was seeing Serge- who it had nothing to do with – crowing about it. I also think BEG walked into considerable anger and cross-fire that she did not deserve. What I posted earlier was more or less a repetition of what Jan has at the top of the “Sign the GB” page, not my rules, but fair rules from our host that I agree with. I’ve always been pleased to see Amanda’s posts, delighted she had a great time seeing Levon, and hope that she will stick around. No ill-feeling on my side, just irritation that this has spiralled beyond a sensible level, and there seemed way, way too much aggro in the air. You know us Robertsonians – we’re always ready to offer the pipe of peace. Let’s set a good example to our subject matter and put this in the past. I wish we could all sit and share a bottle of wine and laugh at ourselves. My next post will be about music. If anyone really wants to continue the argument, my e-mail address is on the most recent article.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 14:35:47 CET 2003 from jed12.revealed.net (208.23.178.107)

Mike D.

I have been semi-abest here lately. I do not fully know what's been happening here with GB'ers being banished, leaving, etc...I think that is a little sad to see people go. Then again, that's a fact of life. Can someone clue me in as to what happened here?

Negative times like these remind of just why I come here to this guestbook. And they also remind me of why I sometimes don't come here. It'd be a sad day if this guestbook were shut down wouldn't it?

Entered at Sat Jan 18 14:13:32 CET 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1a-a-225.hhe.adelphia.net (68.70.18.225)

Amanda

I will say one thing to you, Peter, as not to make the last note too sour. You do know your Band stuff--however much I don't agree with many of your perceptions. Your articles have taught me plenty about The Band and have led me to think about or see things that I might not have without them.

One more thing I want to share here about Levon and The Band. I have a child who has a disability and I have used The Band's powerful songs as music therapy. This child of mine will stop everything and come as close to the music as he can--especially when he hears the haunting soulfulness of Levon's voice--he is never more angelic. I have so many reasons to be thankful for The Band and for Levon.

God Bless

Entered at Sat Jan 18 13:57:45 CET 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1a-a-225.hhe.adelphia.net (68.70.18.225)

Amanda

Entered at Sat Jan 18 12:19:01 CET 2003 from (212.31.242.102)

Empty Now

Entered at Sat Jan 18 11:31:41 CET 2003 from (212.31.242.97)

Empty Now

Old time religion : It was good for Mummy Omar, It is not good for me

Looking for the author and the title of a 70-80 song i forgot, if someone can help me. It begins like:
2:4
C - G - A min - E min
F - G - A min
‘And I know you’re feeling good when all the friends are there
And I like to see the sunshine in your smile’
Hello Tennessee! Roz, Where are you ?(thats not in the song)

Politics: Jan for Prrrrrresident !!!! heeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Entered at Sat Jan 18 11:06:08 CET 2003 from du-tele3-068.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.68)

Peter Viney

Some people just won't let it go, will they? Look at Serge's crowing post, look at how Amanda tries to pick a fight with BEG over nothing, then comes back to it, and then comes back to it again - the aggressors are clear here.

Rule one- keep your personal disputes off here.

Two- when they blow up (as they will) USE E-MAIL not the GB.

Three- if that fails, remember it's just electrons on a screen, and don't go snivelling to Jan to fix your disputes for you. I don't go snivelling about Serge.

Four- the more I think about it , if the Levonistas are a reflection of Levon, no wonder Robbie went west and got a life.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 07:53:08 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

Dave Z

I like blue berries in my pancakes Lars... I haven't posted with my usual regularity lately because, yes Ed, I've been consuming massive amounts of Pizza Tapes... all in my Jeep, outside on very cold roads, colder than in here... alone and consumed by cabin fever... but alas I'm back... and tomorrow have to call about both lights being out, my backdoor lock never having worked in the first place... and a badly needed oil change... I'm praying for above zero temps so I can attempt to wash the salt that has established a new white color on my green Jeep... I'm also so taken by this Grisman/Garcia stuff that I will soon require a pizza sign of some sort to go on top of the Jeep... anyway, I hope everybody settles down in this close cabin/pink house... because we still got some winter left... lastly, thanks for thinking of me John D... Thur I took the family out to a local art opening (I had 1 landscape entered) and we had a blast listening to the entertainment, a blues harmonica player unaccompanied... the kids danced up a storm... raided the buffet table... and didn't damage any valuable art... now my wife and I are going to see if we can find a good local coffeeshop that maybe does acoustic shows at 6 or 7pm and establish a musical family night out..... I'm also eyeing up 3/8 buhahahaaa... daydreaming heavily about what weird driving route I could take to do a quick in/out once I clean up my pizza jeep... ga-nite all...

Entered at Sat Jan 18 07:27:17 CET 2003 from dialup-65.56.33.148.dial1.newyork1.level3.net (65.56.33.148)

Ed Blayzor

Subject: Whispering Pines-Dar williams &Cliff Eberhardt

After hearing Dar Williams & Cliff Eberhardts version of "Whispering Pines" several times now I must say this is one of the best covers of anybody covering the Band that i've heard. Just curious if anybody else whose heard it yet and what they think of it?

Dave Z. : did you get Garcia-Grisman - The Pizza Tapes yet?

Entered at Sat Jan 18 07:14:44 CET 2003 from 1cust241.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.241)

Mullah Omar

Allah be praised!!!

Entered at Sat Jan 18 06:54:24 CET 2003 from tu4.nirai.ne.jp (218.40.170.165)

Fred

Lars...now you've gone and done it!! My stomach is growling for some flapjacks, smothered in maple syrup. Is it morally wrong to eat flapjacks in the afternoon?

Entered at Sat Jan 18 06:48:18 CET 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1a-a-225.hhe.adelphia.net (68.70.18.225)

Amanda

Give me a break---you really show how nutso you are with the DRIBBLE you just posted. I didn't accuse you of being a partner in BWNWIT's evil display--you just kind of admitted to it on your own--didn't you? Get a life and get a grip--SISTER.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 06:48:30 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

I was thinking about The Band at Woodstock, and those great ad-libs that Levon throws in during Rick's verse on "The Weight" - "what'd you say", and "yeah me too".

Funny stuff.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 06:38:29 CET 2003 from (64.208.176.162)

Lars

Subject: two above zero

So...who else could go for some flapjacks right about now?

Entered at Sat Jan 18 06:03:14 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3613106.sympatico.ca (65.93.194.219)

brown eyed girl

I guess I had a good teacher Amanda........I refuse to discuss personal conflicts in here.....The people in here who know how hard I work with children would never believe your dribble......It's been my life's work Amanda.....Especially when children have disclosed any kind of abuse or inequities...............Surely you at least knew that about me.........If you didn't...........(I also was the only one last year who posted Birthday greetings to your twins when it was their Birthday because that celebration has always meant the most to me and I knew at that time that you'd appreciate the post as well)........

You can email Jan if you would like to banish me as well....Although I have posted about all Band members......You'd get rid of not one but two posters who really appreciate Robbie as an artist and someone who made a difference with The Band and who inspires some Band fans......Sure you can get rid of the posters and you can try and tarnish Robbie's reputation and mine in cyber space and with people who I have met from the site......But you can never kill our spirit......I will always have a passion for music and I will always be an advocate for children whether I continue to post or not....Btw.....You have judged me for being buddies with Tenn.....What about the racist friends you give accolades to?..............

I apologize everyone for this post.....I don't know if it's because we are having a strike vote at the end of the month and our slogan is "Enough is Enough".....but unfortunately.....I feel...."Enough is Enough" here as well......At least last night at Massey Hall our Federation leader was up on stage and started by saying that he had great memories of seeing Bob Marley and The Wailers right on the same stage.....I think I'll relax by listening to Bob right now because of his positive vibrations............

Anyway, I'll just lastly sing along with one of our faves Dylan right now...."Good-bye is too good a word. So I'll just say fare thee well".......

Entered at Sat Jan 18 05:54:49 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-022castocp0151.dialsprint.net (65.178.96.151)

Rollie

Subject: A history of the Band (for beginners)

Entered at Sat Jan 18 05:37:48 CET 2003 from mcha-ah002.taconic.net (205.231.30.49)

Lil

Entered at Sat Jan 18 05:06:00 CET 2003 from cache-mtc-ac02.proxy.aol.com (64.12.96.71)

sharon inebnit nuttle

Subject: hello to cousin levonne

hello levonne think of you often.i am wishing you sucess and hope you are well and doing good ..havent been home in years and have not heard how you are . amy looks very pretty i know you are proud of her..your cuz sharon email is chelshar13at aol dot com..I havent even seen dale in years either..take care of yourself!

Entered at Sat Jan 18 05:01:38 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Brien Sz

Subject: Good for Jan

Good for Jan! HE owes no one an explanation for his actions. Tenn, you should be grateful for a notice - because really, what rights do you think you're entitled too.

I always wonder if those who bark the loudest on these pages are the ones who are the least noticed in life? Not in all cases mind you but in consistant tones and rants.., I must admit, I have found myself typing long responses and then opting not to submit them. I wonder if others have done this? Earlier today in fact I wrote close to a thousand word response to John W's question about why we didn't go to Baghdad. I chose not to submit it - because in all actuality, it has little relevance in the scheme of things. Besides, I'm trying to lay low/off on hot topics.

If I had the skills, I think this site would make an excellant psychological case study on internet realtions.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 04:34:00 CET 2003 from dialup-63.215.114.87.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.114.87)

Pat Brennan

I've been able to score all the songbooks on ebay. Some pricey, some not. Just keep track as they come up with some regularity.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 04:21:52 CET 2003 from sc-hiltonhead1a-a-225.hhe.adelphia.net (68.70.18.225)

Amanda

Brown Eyed Girl--your cruel friend ISN'T a match for me--I never would have stooped so low--YOU, on the other hand, understand that sort of behavior better than me.

BTW--Mr. Viney, your dear compadre never apologized to me. I was up quite early the morning BWNWIT posted (the post Jan deleted). In case some of you didn't see the post--that wonderful human being, BWNWIT, wrote that he wasn't going to apologize because he hadn't heard that my kids were dead. Kind words from a fine gentleman--I'm so glad some of you are proud to be his bosom buddy and would gladly stand up in his defense. I wonder how any of you would have felt if you had been in my place or if I would have stood up for the likes of such a sad soul as BWNWIT????

Cruel, hateful behavior--over a pizza story--that someone else in fact wrote as a nasty jab at Levon--I only replaced and added actors. The main ingredient for all the animosity towards me is my admiration of Levon Helm. The fact that I have always given him respect is a source of agitation for most of you. Oh well--he will always be the best thing about The Band to me. Why that bothers so many of you, I can't imagine.

I actually don't communicate very much with GBers via email. As for Jan--I think I have written him maybe five emails within a year--those were usually questions or thank yous. Jan is a good man with children of his own--maybe he did put himself in my place for a brief moment. I admire him for taking the high road and if some of you don't--maybe you should stop and ponder why honorable actions don't mean much to you. When the least of us is threatened--we are all at risk. Any one of you may need a keen eye looking out for you one day--I hope you can appreciate it the way I have.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 04:01:47 CET 2003 from dialup-63.215.114.87.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (63.215.114.87)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Sat Jan 18 03:50:05 CET 2003 from ool-18bc7fb9.dyn.optonline.net (24.188.127.185)

Bayou Sam

It must be a major league bitch for Jan to deal with this friggin site sometimes.

Do ya think that when Jan started this wonderful homage to his favorite band, he ever thought that he'd actually have to stop someone from using it and enjoying it? It's a damn shame that WE, the posters, let it get to that point sometimes.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 03:25:02 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Mrs. Henry

Subject: That Dylan Song From "Gods and Generals"

AOL has an "exclusive" preview of the new Dylan song from that Civil War movie, "Gods and Generals." Titled "'Cross the Green Mountain," the track is one of Dylan's best-sung songs in some time and the Garth-like organ and lilting violin accompaniment make it one of the most melodic recordings that old Bob has put out in quite a while, too.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 03:14:11 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3613106.sympatico.ca (65.93.194.219)

brown eyed girl

However.....that doesn't excuse the racist or personal beratements here either......Most of us have pissed off someone in here if we say controversial or emotional things....Some of us were willing to resolve misunderstandings or hurt feelings or apologize privately and then move on.....Unfortunately, some people are not emotionally willing to communicate.....They continue to berate in a public forum as if they are all knowing in the same way they accuse other posters......and then are shocked when they finally meet their match......Like Peter Viney and Pat Brennan....I also wasn't asked who should get bannished from the Guest Book.....

Entered at Sat Jan 18 02:40:48 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Ben Pike

Pat, I insist that you leave Vince Foster alone until you have at least solved filegate; but nice sentiment. Whooa, the straw men are being thrown up around here for our sort of President like they are going out of style. Of course, this shocked, SHOCKED response to W supposedly being responsable for 9-11( WHO said this?) is a cover for what the evidence DOES strongly suggest: the hapless Rice was duely warned that such an attack was going to take place, and She looked the other other way and blew it. You can hardly blame the Bush people, however, why, these warnings were coming from Satan's limo driver, the crown Prince of all that is spotted and loathsome, a guy who has been known to hang out with black people...dare we say his name and evoke the powers of darkness? BILL CLINTON.

It's possible that nothing could have prevented 9-11, an investigation by a White House not trying to cover it's miserable hinie sure would have helped us know. Like one NOT headed by Dr. Strangelove. Some are saying Tull's boy has got pre-9-11 approval ratings.... not good for the pityable Oil Trust HE VERY MUCH DOES REPRESENT. What absurd invasions......

I hate to see anyone get the hook, in fact, I miss Roz... if your out there, stop feeling sorry for yourself and pony up to the bar. Lucky for you, stupidity's not a hanging matter....

BAND SONGBOOKS: PINK/BROWN, STAGEFRIGHT, ROCK OF AGES/ BASEMENT TAPES, and NORTHERN LIGHTS were all issued as songbooks with the sheet music. The collection of the first two albums, which has great photos, was going for a lot in good condition on ebay some time back, but prices have really come down (in the rotten economy of the Bush Watch, then there's the middle east... but the same "liberal" Press who manufactured the Whitewater "Scandel" mostly gives him a pass....)

Entered at Sat Jan 18 01:06:27 CET 2003 from (63.164.145.33)

Caledonia

Pehr: Welcome back! In case you thought no one noticed that you had disappeared from the GB ... I noticed. You were definitely missed.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 00:53:48 CET 2003 from h-68-164-13-148.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.13.148)

Pat Brennan

Very unfortunate. Jan's the boss, and no one asked me.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 00:48:15 CET 2003 from du-tele3-119.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.119)

Peter Viney

When the landlord speaks, it’s hard for us old regulars sitting in the corner dribbling into our beer (or rather fine red wine in my case), because like in any house, the host has to have final say on his guests. He pays the rent and heating bills and does the cleaning up after we’ve all had our fun. I read it all and am extremely sad about it. The kids thing caused a great ruffling of feathers, because it was over the top, but he did apologize –in my personal opinion, in soccer terms it was a yellow card offence (warning) not a red card one (sending off). Having watched BWNWITenns posts for many years he has an acerbic wit which I appreciate, but genuinely no ill intent. From the velour seats in the Lounge Bar, we regulars do see some other fellows in the Public Bar cursing and swearing and indeed making racist comments with impunity as they spit into the sawdust. Personally, I’d hope for a last-minute appeal on video evidence (Al will explain these cultural references for you all) leading to an acquittal. Put me down as a character witness for the defence.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 00:18:51 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Listening to Dixie again reminded me to remark on the "raise a Caine" pun - which St Bruce was to borrow for "Adam Raised A Cain". I suppose I could try dragging "Ain't No More Cane On The Brazos" into the conversation too, but won't.

Back to Daniel, did he expect a lyre or a harmonica, and did he get what he was expecting? Imagine sending away for a lyre and then opening the box to find a harmonica! (Shades of Roch Carrier's "The Sweater".) Of course Daniel looked "quite satisfied" on receipt, so I guess he wasn't disappointed, whatever it was he got. If "he blew [it] across the meadow", wouldn't that suggest a harmonica? I know Howlin' Wolf and others say things like "blow your top" or "let's blow" when they mean simply "let's play really hard", but a guy by himself on a hilltop wouldn't be the same thing.

I also reread Peter Viney's fine essay on Daniel. When I got to the second Robbie Robertson quote I wondered how Robbie saw himself in terms of the song - what did he see himself giving up, what did he see himself receiving in return (if anything in addition to the ability to play well), what did he see himself sentenced to? In answer to the question, how did you get what you got, Robbie used to tell aspiring copycats that they should soak their guitars in milk, or slit their speakers, or push a special button on the guitar (aka, the Robbie button).

I like Peter's drawing in of Grossman, and management generally. I can imagine the guys agreeing that meeting the suits felt like being Daniel in the lion's den, and then - because like most of us they'd have jumbled memories of bible stories from Sunday school - confusing that with the music, the fire and Nebuchadnezzar.

[How did the sackbut get there? Was there an old instrument of that name? Beginning around 1950 there was an early sythesizer (a Moog competitor) by that name developed in Ottawa - a project that lasted well into the 1970s, with the main proponent, besides the inventor, being Peter Jermyn, ex of Luke and the Apostles.]

I now find it of some interest that the main instrumental section in the song is neither harp nor harp - suggesting, I guess, that we should take none of it too literally.

Another thought was that the moral of the song is so much like that of the Pied Piper story, "The Monkey's Paw" and Nilsson's "The Rainmaker" - whose Kansas sort of fits too.

I'd also say tat the father's advice sounds more like that of a dad than a diety. And that the "blew across the meadow like a whippoorwill .. just to pass the time" seems like an echo of those many nothing summer days that Robbie must've spent in the fields (meadows) of the Six Nations Reserve during his visits there as a boy.

One final note - to Peter - is that I think of when Robertson would have found himself "playing the cowboy". The 19th century farmer or worker maybe, but a guy in chaps - not!

Entered at Sat Jan 18 00:14:22 CET 2003 from h66-59-176-107.gtconnect.net (66.59.176.107)

Serge

Goodbye smartass. You always thought you were clever...I have never called John Donabie "a pathetic asshole" or anything. Show me where that so-called recent entry is. John is, and has been a close friend for a few years now, so don't fabricate crap to divert attention from yourself. My thing with Viney is none of your business or MattK's. All you and he needed to do is scroll past my entries. You butt in, and I'll climb all over your asses like a rash. "You" are a pathetic prick. Go back to your moonshine still, and insult your hillbilly female friends there. Leave the gals here alone.

Entered at Sat Jan 18 00:13:36 CET 2003 from cc5414-a.hnglo1.ov.home.nl (212.120.101.7)

Norbert

good post man......you're ok, as is Amanda......(send her an e)

Entered at Sat Jan 18 00:08:31 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-022castocp0070.dialsprint.net (65.178.96.70)

Rollie

If BWNWIT goes ,I go.........I'm not kidding........don't anyone try to stop me.Hello? I'm not kidding!!! Hello? Ahem....yoo-hoo folks, it's me , your ole pal, Rolando!!!!!???? ........hello????????????

Entered at Sat Jan 18 00:05:20 CET 2003 from 1cust35.tnt2.farmland.in.da.uu.net (67.241.53.35)

Bobby ( Sticks )

Subject: comments

The band is just great Lavon in the Movie " Fire Down Below " He played a excellent Minister, Steven Stegallis one of my favorites,,,,,,,And Lavon plyed a great Loretta Lynn dad in The Coal Miners Daughter I am 61 and still drumming strong Was with some great and still great rockers in the 60s -70s When I go there will be a trailor behind the prosession Carring me & my Drums To all you muscians Keep on Keeping on, God bless You All A Friend from Indiana Bobby--------

Entered at Fri Jan 17 23:48:54 CET 2003 from (170.190.43.79)

BWNWITennessee

"To come out...later and say, 'Just kidding,' I mean, that's my idea of horrible." - Robbie Robertson

Entered at Fri Jan 17 23:44:40 CET 2003 from (170.190.43.79)

BWNWITennessee

I wanted to inform those who are not yet aware of it that I have been blocked access to the GB (but not from every computer in Nashville, as you might have noticed) by Jan. There was no mention of this made anywhere, only a message from him to me to "please stop," which is somewhat odd as he has in the past made a comment either on the GB or the "What's New" section (can't remember which) when other people have been denied access. My interpretation of this, right or wrong, can only be that Jan did not want everyone to know that he blocked me, so he tried to make it look like I was asked politely to behave and that I got pissy and simply never came back. But I did not want you all to think that I, personally, was the kind of person who would do that, which is why I'm telling you now what's what.

While it comes as no great surprise to me to have been blocked, given my history, I would have expected at least one warning of some type, which did not happen. If there's something that people who have read my posts consistently would hopefully realize, it's that I am not unreasonable. One would think that after three years of postings that have hopefully been, for the most part, informative, entertaining and enjoyable, not to mention having hand-typed interviews for submission to this site, that I would have deserved at least one, "please behave, or you will be blocked." But I did not. Apparently I am held in the same esteem as Rosalind by the administrator of this site. Jan can delete this post, as well, but not before some of you get the chance to read it. (Of course, if you're really evil you could always copy it while you have the chance and repost it. But I didn't say that.)

I recently made a joke about an incident involving Amanda's kids, who are, to the best of my knowledge, all perfectly healthy, happy and fine. Amanda herself posted in great detail about this incident at the end of last May but, oddly enough, that post is no longer on the site due to a disk failure. My post was quickly removed after Diamond Lil complained. Amanda, who is on friendly terms with Butch, Levon and Lil, and presumably Jan, posted a message several months ago revealing the addiction problems of a frequent GB poster. Those problems were not, and under no circumstances should have ever been made, public knowledge among this community. Her post remains on this site to this day. (Something to think about, BTW, for all those who feeling sympathy for sweet little Amanda's recent crocodile tears.) As you all know, I've also been critical, to put it mildly, of Butch. But I think we're all aware of Serge's perpetual insults and provocations towards Peter Viney. Actually, in going through the archives I found a recent post in which Serge called both MattK an "illiterate asshole" and John Donabie a "pathetic asshole." But he also, apparently, has the right connections.

I fully realize that this is a fan-based, "non-official" and privately run site, and can be run in any manner deemed fitting. But I also realize that it is a site that is referenced on (some) official Band products (perhaps which products indicates quite a bit). One would think that would bear a certain responsibility.

Even though I'm still capable of posting messages on this site, I will respect Jan's wishes and refrain from posting here any longer, simply because there are a few people here for whom I would regret being responsible for having the GB shut down. But I also have no interest in ever again contributing anything of substance to a web site administered in such a manner as this. Nepotism never really did interest me very much, and it's become pretty obvious that this particular orgy is open to family members only. And I think everyone here has been witness to what inbreeding creates.

Not to fear, though, as I'm sure that Amanda will have no problem posting messages every bit as knowledgeable, enlightening and humorous as I hope that mine were. And now that I'm gone, you can rest assured that, just as the war on drugs has obliterated all narcotics from our country and the war on terrorism has eliminated any threat of any terrorist activity anywhere, there shall never again on this site be any controversy or arguing. So to a few of my friends on this site - Crabgrass, brown eyed girl, Bayou Sam, JTull (the fan, not the band), Peter Viney, Gay Al Edge, Peter Stone Brown, the original, expropriated Amanda, and many more that I'm sure I'm forgetting - I shall conclude my tenure here thusly: "Goodnight. Goodbye."

bwnwitenn@hotmail.com

Entered at Fri Jan 17 23:43:39 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Ed Voci

Subject: Empty Now; Blues Brothers

Yes, Empty Now, real life in Illinois is exactly like it was potrayed in the movie "Blues Brothers". The best part, though, is that Chicago has more blues clubs and more blues musicians than any other city in the world. Rosa's Blues Lounge is my favorite. It's where I first heard and met Pine Top Perkins whose head and hat can be seen for a split second in The Last Waltz as he gets up from the piano at the end of Muddy Waters' set. Come visit us here in the blues capital of the world. edwardvoci@aol.com

P.S. To the politics-and-music-ain't-connected-crowd: word has it that every single member of The Band, at one time or other in their lives, has used oil...and when Levon split from the early Dylan tour he went to work on an oil rig in the Gulf...of Mexico. Kevin Bacon's got nuthin' on this GB.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 23:29:36 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

John D

Bones the Civil War piece I put in was because of Bob Dylan doing a song for the soundtrack. Nothing to so with politics.......unless of course it was not my post that you're talking about......

Entered at Fri Jan 17 22:24:16 CET 2003 from ric-sn-oprx-pxy2.firstunion.com (169.200.215.36)

Bones

People! People! It was just a couple of weeks ago when our beloved host, Jan, asked us to lay OFF the politics. Trust me, it's not that hard. Please don't have this place closed down for the people who want to talk about music.

I have included a link to the Jam Music article about Robbie's recent honor.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 22:21:59 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

JTull Fan

Subject: Gods & Generals

God's and Generals is having its' world premier in Richmond as parts of it were filmed here and in Fredericksburg, as well as the obvious historical significance of this area. Unfortunately, tickets are $125.00, and that does not even include the popcorn. I think it's great that Bob D. contributed to the soundtrack, although I wonder if it will be a bit jarring to hear a voice such as his, so connected to the 1960's, providing the soundtrack to the 1860's. Perhaps it's his great grandad singing!

Entered at Fri Jan 17 21:28:12 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

John D

That's right David. I forgot to mention that. Ramsay named his son after Levon. Indeed a Band connection.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 21:24:54 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

John D

Bob Dylan has contributed a newly composed and recorded song, "'Cross The Green Mountain", to the highly anticipated Civil War epic "Gods and Generals", which will open in theaters nationwide on February 21. Music plays a powerful role in the film -- in addition to the score by composers Randy Edelman and Jon Frizzell, with solos by Grammy-winning fiddler Mark O'Connor, the soundtrack also features an original song, "Going Home", by Mary Fahl, Sony Classical recording artist (and formerly lead vocalist of the band October Project). Directed by Ron Maxwell ("Gettsyburg"), "Gods and Generals" is based on the best-selling book recounting the dramatic early years of the Civil War -- from Manassas to the Battle of Fredericksburg.

The "Gods and Generals" soundtrack will be in stores nationwide on February 4. Initial shipments will include a limited edition DVD with a video of Bob Dylan performing "'Cross The Green Mountain," a Mary Fahl music video, and several scenes not included in the final print of the film.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 21:12:44 CET 2003 from gpf-t197.gpnet.dnd.ca (131.137.245.197)

sadavid

Subject: Pete Townshend

Link is to a Joey Sweeney article on Salon.com. Not as entertaining as the Gwyn Dyer article posted by Brian Fitzpatrick earlier today, but a different spin - although Mr. Sweeney also remarks on Pete's aura of credibility. Which you can see from the photo - no fancy inlay work on our Pete's Gibson, just a big stencilled "2." Presumably this helps the repair shop keep the work orders straight. Pete was a serial abuser - of guitars.

Band links? Uh, Bob Dylan wrote a song called "Joey." And Gwyn Dyer (it MUST be the same one) is an ex-pat Canadian, I think.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 20:37:59 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Yes, I almost forgot the silent Stone who carries the big sticks -- Charlie Watts!

Entered at Fri Jan 17 20:26:38 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Just a reminder -- the Rolling Stones will be performing live from Madison Square Garden in New York on HBO tomorrow night. Keith, Mick & Ron accompanied by Chuck Leavell, Darryl Jones, Blondie Chaplin, Lisa Fischer, Bernard Fowler, Bobby Keys, Tim Reis, Michael Davis, Kent Smith and a cast of 77 guitars.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 19:49:49 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

JTull Fan

Subject: oil

Empty Now: I missed your post so I was not addressing you. Let's all remeber too that Shell is Royal Dutch Shell and BP is British Petroleum. American oil companies aren't the only ones around.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 19:29:21 CET 2003 from ti121210a080-3134.bb.online.no (80.212.12.62)

Sofus

Does anyone have the sheet music from "Stage Fright" and the combined "The Band and Music from Big Pink"? I have the "Robbie Robertson guitar book", but I want songs like "Chest Fever", "Caledonia Mission", "To Kingdom Come", and the guitar solos from "Time To Kill", "Just Another Whistle Stop" etc. Are those old books arranged for guitar? Or just chords, melody and piano. Capitol sent us the remasters, now someone send us the sheet music!!!!!!!!!!!!

Entered at Fri Jan 17 19:17:10 CET 2003 from avail-minnesotamedical.msp.origix.net (64.247.206.74)

Larry Lurker

I must respectfully disagree with those that argue that this upcoming war with Iraq isn't all about oil. It most certainly is.

It's alarming the amount of misinformation that floats back and forth.

As James Baker, secretary of state under the first Bush, has said in a TV interview, the US policy is that this country will go to war for oil.

Why would the US care if Hussein had the bomb if weren't for the fact that he could overwhelm his oil-rich neighbors (and also menace Israel)? He can't hit the US with such weapons and if he did, he'd know the US would counterstrike.

Former Pres. Clinton, whom I'm no fan of btw, said that when he first saw the WTC attack, first thought of bin Laden because "everyone else has targets" to bomb. As yet, the White House has not given any evidence that Iraq is a sponsor of international terrorism. Only vague "links" and supposed activity in northern Iraq -- which Saddam doesn't control. It's controlled by the Kurds and the nothern no-fly zone.

For that same reason, Saddam wouldn't give such technology to terrorists. It could be traced back to him and then he gets bombed. Also, why would he give such important technology to terrorists who then could give that info to Saddam's rivals? The White House's rationale here is a red herring.

The first reason behind this war is to "safeguard" US oil supplies. The second reason is to presumably cut a sweet deal for the US oil companies with whatever government the US sets up in Iraq. (Sure, companies might make money from distribution, but if it that was the only factor, why would OPEC be so powerful? Don't they have to pay the price that OPEC sets? You're not following the basic tenets of capitalism -- supply and demand. If the US controls the flow of oil, then they can ignore or circumvent OPEC. The US can control the supply and the sky is the limit when it comes to demand.

Lastly, this war is about technology. The US is trying to keep the bomb from as many people as possible.

This war is also a handy distraction away from domestic troubles (namely the economy), the chaotic situation that still exists in Afghanistan and the fact that the US forces have yet to capture bin Laden.

Think about it: in the last elections, did Bush run on his economic program or did he run on a national security platform? While some of you no doubt might like his economic plan, he didn't make that a selling point to the general public when he was trying to get Republicans elected.

Anyone who says this war is about terrorism is kidding themselves, despite what the White House says. Sept. 11 is a pretext for this. This a geopolitical game being played out.

No one likes Saddam Hussein but the hawks in this country refuse to call this what it is. Many wrap themselves in the flag and self-righteousness.

I don't claim to have all the answers but I can clearly see what White House and the mass media is shoveling.

BTW: I'm curious if anyone's noticed the sound differences between "Ain't No More Cane" from Woodstock '69 on the "Across The Great Divide" box set and the other performances circulating. The vocals and mix sound less distinct than the others. Is this more Robbie fudging recording info or are my ears deceiving me?

Entered at Fri Jan 17 19:14:07 CET 2003 from (38.201.148.3)

Jay W.

Subject: Japanese Reissues of Levon's Solo Albums

In addition to the reissue of the RCO All-Stars album mentioned by David Powell, MCA/Japan has also reissued AMERICAN SON and LEVON HELM (1978). I do not believe that LEVON HELM (1982) is among the Japanese reissues. I have seen copies of each in the regular section (not the import section) of the Tower store in Atlanta, and my brother bought copies of all 3 at Tower in New Orleans.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 18:48:30 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.1)

Empty Now

Replace "without" by "Thanks to" here below

Entered at Fri Jan 17 18:29:48 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.1)

Empty Now

The subject item is a quote from Mel Brooks as governor in "Blazzing Saddles"
Lil : You're right
Peter: Super, your version is much funny than Country Joe one (not my version)

John W, Jtull fan: I accept to be treated as an ignorant lier, no one is perfect. In fact I just presented a sample from Country-Joe site which i found funny. Jonh W make me seemingly saying what i didn't say. My idea is: W is an oil man who leads a great nation.
Please, read the rest of the post about my opinion about the USA, which was actually intended to M-O. I love USA you cant force me to love W, I prefer Clinton, JFK, Carter, Lincoln, and many others

For insults: Please email me at the next box: now.empty at caramail.com

I take the occasion to add much important remarks i ought to put in my last post.

Without USA, Human Kind lost the chance to live in slavery in the 19th century
Without USA, Human Kind lost the chance to not live at all under the third reich
Without USA, Human kind lost the chance to live robotisized in the eastern era
Without USA, Human kind is loosing the chance to live like animals with which is now comming
God bless you and good night

Entered at Fri Jan 17 18:29:44 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

JTull Fan

Subject: Rollie/Whispering Pines

No prob.! I've found Whispering Pines listed on Amazon in the $41.00 range, which I am still saving up for!

Entered at Fri Jan 17 18:25:39 CET 2003 from (12.34.17.194)

Johnny Flippo

Pretty good list Dave Hopkins. Here are my additions:

Music from Big Pink: To Kingdom Come

The Band: When You Awake

Cahoots: Smoke Signal

Islands: The title track (w/LH)

The Last Waltz: Both Muddy Waters tracks

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree wih "All La Glory" and "A Change is Gonna Come" - they both sound like Levon's rod work to me.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 18:18:42 CET 2003 from core18d75.dynamic-dialup.toad.net (162.33.188.75)

tony

According to Heylin, Levon played only on Goin To Acapulco, Gonna Get You Now, Wild Wood Flower, See that My Grave is Kept Clean (though I think Levon plays harmonica on this one and a couple of others), Comin' "Round the Mtn, Flight of the Bumble Bee, Confidential To Me and All You Have To Do Is Dream, so the VAST majority of tracks have Richard or Robbie on driums.

Heylin lists only Bob playing harp, but someone is playing it while Bob is singing on a few of the above-listed tracks and I think it's Levon.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 17:54:14 CET 2003 from 56k-socal-06-18.dial.qnet.com (209.221.199.81)

Dave the Phone Guy

Subject: Molde, Trondheim, Oslo, Bergen

What do these places have in common besides being in the country of Norway?

Delbert McClinton will be performing at these cities in late April.

I love Delbert's band.There's gotta be some The Band connection.(maybe a Bramlett of some kind or other)

Jan, go see Delbert at home in Norway and take all your friends!

Entered at Fri Jan 17 17:45:55 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-011castocp0393.dialsprint.net (63.187.105.139)

rollie

I've seen the light. Now, how do I get ahold of the "Whispering Pines" cd?

Entered at Fri Jan 17 17:37:00 CET 2003 from (216.88.34.18)

JTull Fan

Subject: John W. and oil

John, I agree. What I find particularly galling is the total ignorance behind the 'U.S. just wants the oil' argument. It is always espoused by those with complete ignorance about how business and markets work, etc. Oil companies, for the most part, do not make their money on the oil drilling, etc. They make it on the DISTRIBUTION and PROCESSING of oil. It does not matter who is sucking it out of the ground. After the Gulf War, oil prices plummetted, hurting the bottom lines of the oil companies. If you make x% margin distributing a product, and that % remains stable, you will make more if that product is selling at $40.00 per barrel than at $15.00. If we wanted cheap oil, we could merely let Saddam remain in place and buy it directly from him!

Entered at Fri Jan 17 17:34:00 CET 2003 from h-68-164-8-143.chcgilgm.covad.net (68.164.8.143)

Pat Brennan

Entered at Fri Jan 17 17:20:45 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

Calvin

According to the liner notes of the Greatest Hits of McGuinn, Hillman and Clark I once owned the group was signed because of some popular gigs the 3 of them and David Crosby put on in LA in 1978. Logically then when they were approached about recording Crosby must have declined. As for your post John W, I'd have to respectfully disagree. Many of us asked Rollie, very nicely though, to stop posting his "Bush is behind it all" rhetoric. Mostly I ignore ir because "mullah" is obviously a fake and I cant take his nonsense seriously.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 16:50:03 CET 2003 from (12.33.126.130)

John W.

Question: If the U.S. goal was to colonize Iraq for the puropse of stealing its oil, why would they not have marched right into Baghdad in 1992, when they already had half a million troops on their doorstep? Why would they say "OK let's wait ten years, then we will come back and change the regime and steal the oil"?

Entered at Fri Jan 17 16:48:44 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Subject: Ramsay Midwood

John: Funny that you mentioned Ramsay Midwood -- last night I was listening to Music Choice's "Americana" channel on my cable system and they played a cut off the "Shoot Out..." CD. I think it was called "Mohawk River", which I really liked. Checked out his bio and there is a Band connection -- it seems that Ramsay named his son after Levon Helm!

Entered at Fri Jan 17 16:16:43 CET 2003 from zorg23.revealed.net (208.243.237.23)

Mike D.

Subject: It all comes back to The Band

It's really neat that almost everything is connected to The Band in one way or another. I was doing some searching this morning and found out some interesting stuff about a band called "Raven" and their origins. There are a few links:

Stan Szelest, Sandy Konikoff to name a few. Also, drummer Gary Mallaber played drums on the following Van Morrison albums: Moondance, Tupelo Honey, St. Dominic's Preview, Hard Nose The Highway, and Beautiful Vision.

Moreover, George Harrison discovered them internationally! Very interesting stuff.

Ahh, The Band :)

Entered at Fri Jan 17 16:06:40 CET 2003 from wc12.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.85.79)

John Donabie

David....if you haven't already, check out Ramsay Midwood on the Vanguard Label. Finally released in North America. This is a CD released two years ago in Italy, France, Sweden etc. by this prolific songwriter. Already been called the "New Dylan" which as John Prine said early in his career; when he was called the same thing.....the kiss of death.

However these 12 tracks are wonderful with great musicians and quite honestly he does make you think of early Dylan to a degree; but he is his own man. He's a singer-songwriter and actor. Check this one out anybody, especially David. Great title for the CD to. "Shoot Out At The OK Chinese Restaurant." Sample him on the Vanguard site or on Amazon.com

Entered at Fri Jan 17 14:42:41 CET 2003 from du-tele3-071.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.71)

Peter Viney

The bit Empty Now quotes was the front page of The Daily Mirror two weeks ago, but you've missed a line. The original reads (using the logos of the companies)

I SHELL not EXXONerate Saddam Hussein from blame. I will MOBILise our troops and JETs to Q8 and the Persian GULF. I will BPrepared for TOTAL war. The message is AMOCOmin' to kick your ass, Saddam."

I suspect it was amended because JET and Q8 are British only petrol stations as far as I know, and though it looks good in the text, TOTAL is Russian, I think. This was the front page I was offering you, Ben! BTW, I'm making no political comment here, I just thought it was clever word-play.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 14:19:50 CET 2003 from quebec-hse-ppp3612570.sympatico.ca (65.93.192.191)

brown eyed girl

In the Ottawa Citizen and Toronto Star newspapers....Robbie Robertson wins Aboriginal Achievement Award for "the betterment of life in aboriginal communities and the rest of the country"......

The last time I was in Jamaica a couple of years ago....A twenty-year old friend's son who was visiting from New York....looked at me and said....."I bet you're an Elvis Presley fan".....Without batting an eyelash I replied....."Actually I don't have any Presley" (except for one song).....When I told him that I did have the Greatest Hits of one Rapper......Well......all of a sudden.......He felt at ease and was smiling away......

Entered at Fri Jan 17 13:03:30 CET 2003 from mcha-ah045.taconic.net (205.231.30.92)

Lil

Jan: Any idea why everytime I post something.. and try to preview it.. it vaporizes? You must have quite a few from me stuck in your cache there. Thanks if you can tell me how to remedy the situation.

Have a good day everyone.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 12:24:05 CET 2003 from (212.31.242.105)

Empty Now

Subject: That’s me in the corner .......

Scorcese-GNY: Great lectures Peter, Hank. Every body here talk about this film, but i didn’t saw it yet.

Mummy-Omar-War: No one here in muslim world talk about an American threat against us, like no one you’re trying to convince in the GB wish a war. From a long time ago, any adult knows who-wars-who. I don’t believe that our opinion can be more relevant than that of the directly concerned persons. Some are much more intelligent. Let’s stay in the music and in relation with a recent post about protest-singers, please check the above link from Country-Joe.
A sample of this web-page is a talk from W:
‘ We “Shell” not “Exxon”erate Sadam Hussein for his actions. We will “Mobil”ize to meet this threat to vital interest in the Persian “Gulf” until an “Amoco”ble solution is reached. Our strategy is to “BP”repared. Failing that, we “Arco”ming to kick your ass’
This is Country-Joe McDonnald, I will be much less worried if there are some similar preachers from the opposite side.
And whatever is the question, for the comfort of the human kind, every one must admit that now the USA are the only locomotive of the civlisation, unless you propose a candidate. US is much more than W

Mind-masturbation, obsolete national feelings: Robbie Robertson birthday, 5th July is the independance day of Algeria (The day after). Here we officialy celebrate every year Robbie's birthday.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 10:33:16 CET 2003 from (212.31.242.105)

Empty Now

A few months before, i entered for the first time one of the CD-cassettes stores in Constantine at Saint-Jean Boulevard.
I was a little disorientated beneeth the different shop sections, Techno, Hip-Hop, Funk, Groove, House, Dance, Drive, R&B (which no more means Rythm and Blues but something like Rubbish and Bullshit., or Rap and Beat perhaps), Oriental , Rai, French Music (a huge section), Italian, Spanish and Latin, Celine Dion Section (I’m not kidding), Classics, etc...
Then a young smiling vendor, about 20 years old, before i said one word, suggested me exactly:
“Come on Sir, I’ll show you your STYLE”
In the real life, like in the GB, I don’t like to contradict people. I thought let’s dicover what does him call my style, and i will discuss after.
In the section he showed me, the first cassette i recognized was one of Bob Dylan (Greatest Hits series) before I saw that I was in th Rock-Folk section
I was really amazed
I pursuied my shopping, and finally i asked the young vendor
‘How did you identified my style with such precision?’
He simply answerd ‘But that was evident Sir’
Perhaps, but in reality, until today i haven’t a convincing answer on how someone who saw me from the first instant knew that i’m a Bob Dylan listenner, and in an evident manner

Entered at Fri Jan 17 10:21:54 CET 2003 from du-tele3-028.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.28)

Peter Viney

Levon was absent for the great majority of tracks. Robbie Robertson plays drums on You Ain't goin' Nowhere, This Wheel's On Fire & Apple Suckling Tree according to the liner notes on the official release, Richard plays drums on Odds & Ends, Yazoo Street Scandal, Aint No More Cane, Don't Ya Tell Henry. Who knows about the unofficial stuff!

Entered at Fri Jan 17 08:26:44 CET 2003 from core18d26.dynamic-dialup.toad.net (162.33.188.26)

tony

Charlie - great trivia question. I have that soundtrack album but I don't know if I would have thought of it (bad habit of reading this board from top to bottom, so I saw the answer before the question). The song you saw with Levon on guitar was most likely either Jemima or Time To Kill.

Dave - Levon was absent for most of the Basement sessions, from what I've read, so I think most of those tracks must have RM on drums and Bob on piano.

Ry Cooder - the real deal indeed, especially his first three records. Speaking of the Captain's guitar players (he had so many great ones, including Ry, briefly in '67), Zoot Horn Rollo has a new disk of instrumental music that's EXCELLENT - the best new music I've heard in years. He sells it on his web site.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 06:59:55 CET 2003 from 1cust228.tnt3.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.153.228)

Charlie Young

Subject: Stan Szelest it Was...

Bob Wigo: you nailed my trivia question in record time. This is a smart room you've got here, Jan.

Calvin: yes, I guess that the McGuinn, Clark, Hillman reunion wasn't THAT short lived. I still wish that David Crosby would join his other two old mates from the original Byrds and do one last tour. I just saw the reunited version of the Doors on Jay Leno's "Tonight Show," so anything is possible (no, Ian Astbury was singing, not Jim Morrison--he skipped the reunion).

Entered at Fri Jan 17 06:17:06 CET 2003 from stjhts25d008.nbnet.nb.ca (142.166.249.137)

WS Walcott

I gotta agree with Viney. Pretty simplistic plot. Lewis was great. Leonardo was better than I expected. A "good looking" movie. But long and drawn out. I was bored. I think I have seen all of Scorceses movies. This one does not rate up with Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Good Fellas, Mean Streets, etc. It is a very ordinary movie. Like Viney said: You knew from the start exactly where the movie was going, and what would happen. It just took too long to get there.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 05:46:38 CET 2003 from 64-121-50-213.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com (64.121.50.213)

Tiny Monster

Subject: Cooder, Helm, Hiatt

I love Ry Cooder. He's the real deal ...

Anyway's, nobody answered my question about Levon being in the studio with John Hiatt for his new studio album. Can anyone confirm that Levon does any work on the new release ???

A little birdie told me it was listed in the "What's New" section but I was never able to find it ...

Anyone ?

Hey Roslyn honey ! ... how's it goin girl?

Miss ya

Entered at Fri Jan 17 05:26:52 CET 2003 from zorg216.revealed.net (208.243.237.216)

Mike D.

Dave,

Richard was also on the drums during "Such A Night" at The Last Waltz.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 05:12:08 CET 2003 from cache-dg05.proxy.aol.com (205.188.208.137)

Calvin

I appreciate the heads up on the disc Charlie, but Im afraid I have to correct you on your statement "short-lived reunion." In fact the three of them signed a 6 record deal shortly after those shows and released 2 albums under the Name McGuinn, Hillman and Clark-and after Clark fell ill a 3rd under McGuinn and Hillman. I have them all, and they arent bad-not a pull out once a month disc, but definately in Jubilation and High on the Hog territory.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 05:08:09 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

bob wigo

Charlie,

I'll take a shot at it. In the late seventies the film "Blue Collar", with Harvey Keitel and Richard Pryor, featured some songs by Ry Cooder. Don Van Vliet, aka Captain Beefheart, sang lead on a song entitled "Hard Workin' Man". Stan Szelest played the piano on that one.

Entered at Fri Jan 17 04:55:22 CET 2003 from 1cust78.tnt16.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.38.56.78)

Crabgrass

Subject: Religion & Politics

I think if George had stayed in Woodstock longer Dylan would have eventually joined the Hare Krishnas instead of turning to Jesus.

I never thought I would see the day when Richard Nixon would have to say "I am not a crook."

Entered at Fri Jan 17 04:23:15 CET 2003 from pix.wwortv.com (199.173.54.12)

Brian Fitzpatrick

Subject: Pete Townshend

saw some discussion on the pete townshend issue here. just thought i'd post this article i'd found. as a big fan of pete and the who, i believe him to be innocent. what's up pat brennan! finally posted! good bless you all! Townshend the Victim of Bad Press Gwynne Dyer 16.01.2003 I wish he had not done it. I believe that his motives were good, but I never thought I would see the day when Pete Townshend would have to say: "I am not a paedophile." Let me tell you a story about The Who. It was in the late 1970s, a decade after their first flush of fame, and Pete Townshend had been off the road for almost three years fighting his drink and drug demons. (No special breaks for rich and famous rock stars who get offered endless supplies of really good drugs, but as Joe Cocker put it in his anthem, "It's hard to leave when you can't find the door".) So they were getting back out in public in a tentative way, doing unadvertised gigs in small venues in the less fashionable parts of London. I heard about the one at the Sundowner up in Edmonton at the last minute, and frankly I'd never been that far north in London before. Two more tube stops and you'd be in Scotland. And, like always, they gave value for money, playing the whole canon from "My Generation" to "Won't Get Fooled Again". One hour, two hours, three and all 400 or 500 people packed into the venue are uneasy, looking at their watches, because we're a long way from home and the last underground train is going now, and lots of us don't even have taxi fare to get back to our parts of London. But they're still playing, and nobody leaves. So finally The Who leave the stage, close to midnight, and we all spill out into the winter dark wondering how the hell we're going to get home. And there, lined up outside the theatre, are a dozen chartered buses with signs in their windows for all the different boroughs of London. It took a while, but they got us all home, right to our doors. I am not a person who admits easily to having heroes, but if I were, Pete Townshend would be one of them. Certainly my only musician hero, and not just because The Who were the best rock band in history - the first to play it loud enough to make your ears bleed, the first to break out of the simple guitars-and-love-song pattern of early rock'n' roll, first synthesisers, first intelligent lyrics, first (and still best) rock opera, and the one band that always gave full measure no matter how rich, famous and stoned they got. Townshend himself, for all the early dramatics about smashing guitars on stage, always gave the impression of being an intelligent, serious, even moral, man - in a trade that is not exactly drowning in those qualities. Now he's under suspicion for accessing child pornography from an American internet portal that gave access to thousands of kiddie-porn websites, mostly in Russia or Indonesia. So are about 7000 other people in Britain whose credit- card details were found when investigators in Texas broke into the site. About 1300 homes in Britain have been raided in Operation Ore, and among those arrested are a judge, magistrates, hospital consultants and a deputy headmaster, along with about 50 policemen. This was all happening very quietly - so that other suspects would not reformat their hard drives before the police got around to knocking on their doors - but then somebody slipped the word to the Daily Mail in London that Pete Townshend's name had turned up among the 7000. Only hours after the newspaper hit the streets, Townshend called a press conference to explain that he had visited the site only once, as research for a campaign he was working on against child abuse. Some of the research would be incorporated in a book he is writing about his own childhood, for he was convinced that he had been sexually abused himself between the ages of 5 and 6 1/2, when he was staying with a mentally ill grandmother. "I cannot remember clearly what happened, but my creative work tends to throw up nasty shadows, particularly in Tommy," he said. And the mob who love to see the rich and famous brought low went: "Yeah, right, he was doing research for a book." It was a stupid thing to do, but if you look at Pete Townshend's past the explanation is credible. His rock opera Tommy, written over 30 years ago, was all about child abuse at a time when the topic was not in the least fashionable. The scene in which the "deaf, dumb and blind kid" is left alone to be groped by his drunken Uncle Ernie - "Fiddle about, fiddle about" - is the first time that the sexual abuse of children comes up in mainstream English-language popular art. Townshend wouldn't say that he entered the site only once if he had done so many times, because he knows that the police have the credit-card records. The police might never even have contacted Townshend if the Daily Mail had not run its story, for they are clearly exercising some judgment about which of the visitors to the site were users of child pornography: They haven't arrested all 7000 people on the list. But once Townshend's name was in the public domain, they could not avoid arresting him - not with all those other prominent people already under arrest. So now he'll probably have to wade through the whole long nausea of a trial, although he's still likely to be found innocent in the end. It's a miserable business, and I wish he hadn't done it - though not as much as he does, I'm sure. But this is a good man in a bad time and place, not a bad man. Gwynne Dyer is a London-based independent journalist.  

Entered at Fri Jan 17 04:09:46 CET 2003 from cache-rf05.proxy.aol.com (152.163.188.165)

hevans

Subject: harrison/dylan/band

it's been about a year since i have posted anything. I learned a lomg time ago that you never win an argument that involves either religion or politics. The last month or so I have been listening non-stop to George Harrison's "Brainwashed". It has got me thinking and listening to ATMP, LTMW, etc. George was always very profound with his lyrics. Until John was murdered, I always thought that the Beatles were somehow superhuman, not like the rest of us. That changed in 1980. I love the Beatles. I'm sorry that John and Paul and George (not Ringo, ever the peacemaker) had problems. I love them all. Their music will always play a large part in my life. Their personal difficulties were between them. I'm just thankful for the music that they gave to us. I will admit, that I became a fan of the Band because of my love for Bob Dylan, but I do love the Band. At the same time, while I'm sorry about their internal problems, (Levonistas v. Robertsonians), I'm thankful for the music that they gave us. The other night I watched "Beatles Anthology" for the umptheenth time. I'm always led to wonder what could have been when George talks about having spent time in Woodstock with Dylan and the Band. How's that for a group, Harrison, Dylan, The Band? How about "The Basement Tapes, with special guest George Harrison?" Or, "The Traveling Wilburys, featuring the Band"? In closing, let me mention "If Not For You" off of "Bootleg vol 1-3", when Bob asks, "Are you ready George?"

Entered at Fri Jan 17 04:01:01 CET 2003 from 1cust228.tnt3.fredericksburg.va.da.uu.net (67.200.153.228)

Charlie Young

Subject: Richard on Drums, Byrds Note & Linking The Band to Captain Beefheart...

I remember seeing Richard play drums on at least one song at my first concert by The Band in June, 1971. As I recall Levon was playing electric rhythm guitar during that one.

I know that there are a bunch of fans of Gene Clark and the Byrds here and wanted to mention a double CD set I picked up today that I wasn't aware had been released except as a boot. Titled "Three Byrds Land in London," the live set includes individual performances by Gene Clark, Chris Hillman and Roger McGuinn with their bands of the time (April 1977) and three old Byrds' songs that they perform together at the end. As the shows were recorded by the BBC, the sound quality is very good and it's a nice artifact of that short-lived reunion of those three original members of that seminal Los Angeles band.

Today I also found an unlikely link of another legendary L.A. musician--Captain Beefheart--to The Band. It's actually only one degree of separation. Any guesses?

Entered at Fri Jan 17 03:31:42 CET 2003 from as3-1-135.hip.berkeley.edu (136.152.194.57)

Dave Hopkins

Subject: songs with Richard on drums

this is what I've come up with...posted this a couple years back:

Basement Tapes: Yazoo Street Scandal, Ain't No More Cane, Don't Ya Tell Henry

Music From Big Pink: [none]

The Band: Rag Mama Rag, Jemima Surrender

Stage Fright: Strawberry Wine, Time To Kill, All La Glory, Daniel and the Sacred Harp (with LH)

Cahoots: When I Paint My Masterpiece, Thinkin' Out Loud

Moondog Matinee: Mystery Train (with LH), The Promised Land (with Billy Mundi), I'm Ready (with LH), A Change Is Gonna Come

Northern Lights-Southern Cross: Jupiter Hollow (with LH)

Islands: [none]

The Last Waltz: Mystery Train (with LH), Evangeline

Entered at Fri Jan 17 02:42:17 CET 2003 from 1cust80.tnt17.nyc9.da.uu.net (63.25.125.80)

Mullah Omar

Subject: The Truth About 9/11

I am glad to see someone recently allude to the fact that George W. Bush masterminded the destruction of the Twin Towers (which were caused to fall by internal remote controlled bombs planted by the CIA) in order to get the American public behind his Wars Against Islam and Iraq. Link above tells the TRUTH.

Allah Akbar!

Entered at Fri Jan 17 00:51:12 CET 2003 from ip-207-198-222-223.nyc.ny.fcc.net (207.198.222.223)

Eddie Hodel

Subject: Jim Weider (The Weight)

I think Jim Weider's new album "Remedy" contains the best cover version of "The Weight" that I have ever heard. Of course, Mavis Staples supplies the sweet harmony "...sent me here with her regards for everyone..."

Entered at Fri Jan 17 00:28:28 CET 2003 from stcatherines-ppp109209.sympatico.ca (216.209.112.140)

Cousin Paul

Subject: Diamond Lil

Hey Lil, Get back to me via my Email. I have some of the pictures you asked about and some pretty neat Malibu shots wit a young Amy Helm, Eli, and Justin. Also a collecter of Grace, Rick's Uncle Spence,and baby Lisa. Lot's more also. Drop me some mail and an address. Do you have anything for me? Until we talk next, be good. Jan, I need a mailing address. Peace and Love,Cousin Paul. P.S. A.P. are you out their? No reply from you!!

Entered at Thu Jan 16 22:46:25 CET 2003 from host2.pgfm.com (12.13.177.66)

David Powell

Subject: Levon Helm & The RCO All-Stars

Levon's 1977 album with the RCO All-Stars has also been reissued recently on CD by MCA/Universal Japan. I found a copy in the import section of the Tower store in Buckhead/Atlanta.

Entered at Thu Jan 16 22:22:54 CET 2003 from ns1.prenhall.com (198.4.159.5)

Ray G

Subject: Band Solo Works, my lucky day!

Went to Tower Records in Nanuet, NY during my lunch break and came back with a score. Levon's 1978 self titled album mentioned in the "What's New" section, Rick Danko "In Concert", and Danko-Fjeld-Andersen "One More Shot".

I'm happy to say that the Rick Danko section in Tower was actually pretty good. They had all his Woodstock Records releases, his first solo album, and D-F-A stuff. Since they had Rick's Woodstock Records recordings I checked for Prof. Louie's "Flyin' High" but no luck! Kinda hoping they would have had "Remedy" by Jim Weider & Randy C. but no luck their either. That would have been too good! I left the store happy though!

Entered at Thu Jan 16 21:55:37 CET 2003 from (12.151.114.40)

tony

If it's only on songs Levon sings, then I'm wrong about Time To Kill, but it sure sounds to me like Garth on piano and Levon on rhythm guitar, and I don't hear any organ or acordion.

The converse is definitely NOT true; Levon plays drums on MANY of the songs he sings.

If I ever get around to compiling a list, I'll certainly submit it for discussion.

Entered at Thu Jan 16 21:34:44 CET 2003 from ric-sn-oprx-pxy2.firstunion.com (169.200.215.36)

Bones

Entered at Thu Jan 16 21:19:40 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

Entered at Thu Jan 16 20:50:29 CET 2003 from (12.151.114.40)

tony

I know Richard played drums on Rag Mama Rag and Jemima Surrender, and my ears tell me he did on Time To Kill (right?), but I can't think of any other songs off hand. I saw them a few times, but the memories are way too dim to recall on which songs they switched instruments. I think I'll embark on a little research project, a good excuse to give all the albums a thorough listening.

Entered at Thu Jan 16 20:09:54 CET 2003 from dialup-0723.dublin.iol.ie (193.203.146.211)

Hank

Subject: The Night They Bombed New York City Into The Ground

Went and saw "Gangs of New York" last night.........

I can understand how folks would have mixed feelings about the movie but viewing it is worth it to witness Daniel Day Lewis' awesome acting ability.......

It's a long movie but a wonderful treat for the eye....if you can stand that much graphic violence and emotional performance.......and it was very interesting watching it here in Ireland not only because of the Irish pretext but because many of the actors were very familiar to audiences here, having appeared on Irish TV and in Irish Theatre productions......the use of Irish gaelic in the film garnered a few chuckles last night as well......not to mention Finbarr Furey and Maura O'Connell singing....the audience was rivetted last night....pin drop silience and an awed hush when it was over.......that was very impressive.......

I think Scorcese painted a wonderful portrait of pre-Civil War and Civil War New York.......and illustrated that there were civil wars within The Civil War........Fascinating to see the scene of The Union Army bombing NYC.......a timely reminder that a government will bomb it's own citizens in order to get them to toe the line.........The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, indeed.........

I can understand how the movie has angered folks as it challenges many valued American political orthodoxies....as illustrated in that that NY Post article linked up to us by Crabby......To actually consider yourself....or your European tribe and it's offspring as "native" was and is ludicrous....and it leads to the pyschopathic behaviour we witness in the film......however, there have been many people/tribes who have felt that way since The Civil War and do so to this day.....AND to portray the Irish as somewhat innocent and up against it is also a no-no........For years I've been hearing that The NYC Riots of 1863 were the results of inbred Irish racism against people of African origin.......not completely true, it would seem....."Gangs of New York" illustrated that those riots involved people of all ethnic backgrounds who did not want themselves or their loved ones to be drafted and butchered way down South.......The Irish were but one of those ethnic groups........and to show people of African origin and Irish origin actually grooving together.....dancing jigs and struggling together in dire poverty.......goes against the grain of accepted historical dogma........"Gangs of New York" also illustrated how what passed for democracy in The USA was often the result of the government working hand in hand with mob leaders.......not a nice image for a country supposed to be The Bastion of Democracy worldwide.......

It was Classic Scorcese, too, with issues of NYC Roman Catholicism brought to the fore and illustrated as only Scorcese can..........and the scene where all the different factions are saying their prayers to, apparently, the same God before the riots is pure Scorcese........

The only thing that disappointed me was the musical soundtrack.......to hear the modern drums and electronica of U2 sorta jarred me at the start.....Now, I like U2 well enuff, folks...but it didn't seem in keeping with the movie....also, I was painfully aware of Finbarr Furey and Maura O'Connell singing on the soundtrack as opposed to singing live...which they coulda done....to better effect......but then again, maybe I'm just pissed off I didn't get asked to contribute to the soundtrack!....yada, yada, yada,........I just think that if they spent that much bread on it they coulda done the music in a more authentic fashion.....the way Furey and O'Connell sang in the movie made it seem a little bit like an old style Hollywood "musical"......which it certainly was not.......Overall, tho', that's a minor quibble and I found the movie to be hugely entertaining and historically instructive..........

Entered at Thu Jan 16 20:29:39 CET 2003 from sdn-ap-017castocp0062.dialsprint.net (63.187.168.62)

rollie

Great story!

Entered at Thu Jan 16 20:21:48 CET 2003 from pool-141-153-194-74.mad.east.verizon.net (141.153.194.74)

Bumbles

Subject: Professor Longhair Goes to Woodstock

LONGHAIR: There were a couple of posts last week about Professor Longhair’s 1972 brush with Albert Grossman and “rumored” unreleased recordings of Longhair backed by the Band. The following quotes from Quint Davis, producer/director of the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival and a key figure in Longhair’s career after his re-emergence at the 1971 festival, appear in Jeff Hannusch’s “I Hear You Knockin’: The Sound of New Orleans Rhythm and Blues.” Hannusch isn’t specific, but the trip to Woodstock would have been in early 1972.

“Grossman invited us up to Woodstock. We did some sessions that were supposed to come out on Bearsville, but in the end it didn’t work out. I don’t exactly know why—we did some killer sessions—but nothing ever came out. Grossman’s got all the tapes.
“You see Grossman’s big; he’s just physically big, and that’s the way he functioned. He moved with a lot of force. He created this whole community up there. He had Todd Rundgren, the Band, Paul Butterfield, the Full Tilt Boogie Band and Foghat. He built the first really advanced studio there; he was managing and he had the label.
“He seemed real interested, and he initially made the investment [$25,000]; and that money was crucial. It paid for the Baton Rouge session; I bought Fess some clothes, a car and a piano.
“We got there [Woodstock] a day early or something, and they put us up in this house that wasn’t finished; it didn’t have electricity or a phone, and they told us to hang on for a day or so until they got it together. Well, if you’re a 23-year-old Caucasian rock fan and were told to hang on in Woodstock that’s one thing, but I was there with Snooks Eaglin and Professor Longhair, and they didn’t think things were happening at all. I’ll never forget Snooks standing by the window and saying the sound of the snow falling on the roof bothered him.
“When we were there we did one strange session with some guy, and then we did a whole afternoon with the Full Tilt Boogie Band, but it just wasn’t happening...[s]o I took them to New York.”

Since Davis was obviously aware of the Band, but doesn’t mention any of them being at either Woodstock session, and since the entire Bearsville episode seems to have taken only a couple of days, it seems unlikely that a trove of Longhair-Band tapes exists. The above link, also posted last week, has information on the eventual disposition of the tapes that initially attracted Grossman’s attention and those from a later session he made possible. No direct Band involvement, apparently, but a fascinating episode. The link should especially appeal to Levonistas.

JOHN D: I didn’t know “Dr. John Plays Mac Rebennack” had been released on disc in the 80s. I did find a listing for a remastered version on Clean Cuts that was released in October 2002, the same time the Acadia version came out. As the contents are identical, it’s probably just a matter of CC distributing it in No. America and Acadia handling the U.K. & Europe.

GANGS OF NY: The film wasn’t based on a novel. Herbert Asbury’s 1927 book was, as its subtitle has it, “an informal history of the underworld.”

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Bill

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Pehr

Entered at Thu Jan 16 19:30:37 CET 2003 from du-tele3-095.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.95)

Peter Viney

Finally saw Gangs of New York. The OST CD says “from the record collections of Martin Scorsese and Robbie Robertson”. Any comments? I think as RR is Executive music producer it is relevant here. I’ll put my opinions in anyway.

Some say it’s a flawed masterpiece. While many set pieces and shots are brilliant, as an overall movie, three stars out of five would be generous. There’s too much action chasing too little plot (as ever nowadays). It’s a basic Western theme – he killed my pa, I’m gonna to get him. You know that he will manage and two and a half hours is too long to get there.

While the opening 15 minutes are superb, I am very uncomfortable about having child actors walking through the middle of carnage they would not be allowed to see in the cinema. Too traumatic for the young actors, and irresponsible of Scorsese to put them through it. And while some of the reverses mean they weren’t on set, there are shots of the child-Amsterdam walking through and witnessing the death, which aren’t trick shots.

Some things ring untrue. Day-Lewis is brilliant. Di Caprio is not. You get a brothel scene where all the men are filthy, gap-toothed, scarred, wounded and all the women are young, beautiful, lithe and half-naked - I guess they’d have looked pretty rough too. They do look rough earlier on, but Scorsese couldn’t resist the big sexy scene rather than reality. Cameron Diaz’s gorgeous appearance throughout the filth and mayhem is in true movie tradition and inevitable.

Scorsese does just about show the lynchings of African Americans in the riots, but history indicates it was more central to the causes than in this film. One comment is that life was so brutal, savage and cruel at Five Points, that being drafted into the war wouldn’t have seemed such a bad alternative. At least you’d get clothing, food, a modicum of pay and the chance of being shot or blown up, which would seem a better ending than the probability of having bits hacked off you slowly by Bill the Butcher. The sepia Civil War stills and rows of coffins present a terrifying prospect for the conscripts, but no worse than everyday life as portrayed at Five Points.

Robertson’s soundtrack supports the film brilliantly throughout. But when it’s put on a CD, it’s an unlistenable experience in a straight line. It’s too diverse. This is not a great OST to own by any means, though I can see myself selecting odd tracks (like Linda Thompson, doing Paddy’s Lament).

If I want to see a film about gangs and New York, I’d choose The Wanderers – a far better film with a far better OST. And it’s funny.

Entered at Thu Jan 16 19:22:36 CET 2003 from (62.61.219.34)

Empty Now

Thanks Ed Voici, finally i found someone who knows the ’Blues Brothers‘ better than me. It’s my all time fave movie. If real life in Illinois is like in the film, at least in a coarse view, you are very fortunate.
Thanks also for the correction, i have some problems in english speaking, but at the second order, is the meaning too different of my version ?
Although I posted the quotes for a pun (the band and The Band, an utopic wish, we Abrabian are known for our perfumed language), i have now one message to the GBers:
Not watching the Blues Brothers is a sin, of course, their are in mission for The Lord

BEG : Beautiful words about memories, but they bear some sadness i can hardly explain. Every one has his proper experience, my one gived me another phylosophy regarding the effect of time:
All what a souvenir can be is good

Speaking about past and memories, here is a wonderful site in the link above which provides an exhaustive practical directory of music(songs, albums), cinema (movies), and principal events, since 1900 until today, classed by year and, for every year classed by alphabetic order.

Entered at Thu Jan 16 19:22:25 CET 2003 from 234.43.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.43.234)

Ray Pence

...I was thinking of the Bob Dylan song "Lenny Bruce" from Shot of Love, and found a good link here...

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Ed Voci

Subject: Empty Now; Blues Brothers

The dialogue between Elwood and the "barmaid" was closer to:

Elwood: "What kind of music do you have here at Bob's Country Bunker, m'am?"

Barmaid: "We have BOTH kinds of music...country AND western."

Entered at Thu Jan 16 18:09:09 CET 2003 from m124-130.on.tac.net (209.202.124.130)

Bill

I always wondered why Elvis' thoughts on the Band were so worthy of inclusion in Hoskyns' book. Kind of like Clayson's (?) repeatedly relaying Wreckless Eric's thoughts on Steve Winwood.

Entered at Thu Jan 16 14:09:58 CET 2003 from hse-hamilton-ppp189890.sympatico.ca (64.229.1.49)

brown eyed girl

Howard Gladstone: How did you like Woodstock?

Robbie Robertson: I thought it was kind of remarkable, the happening, that's all. It was a drag playing. We got even less than response from the audience. The event was not the music, the event was the people. We were like Muzak. They made a big thing out of it, but it wasn't anything so special. It was just special that the people dug each other enough to stick it out. We did about half a good set. Groups weren't showing up, so they had to put them on when they came. We played in between Ten Years After and Johnny Winter, and we came out like a bunch of preacher boys. It was very inappropriate for us.

Empty Now: I've been told that all we have is our memories...Sometimes I wish I was like Adam Cohen....Leonard Cohen's son....when he sings in his "Ophelia"...."Thank God for my bad memory...I've forgotten all the stupid things I've done"....But then again....he may also be wishing.....

Entered at Thu Jan 16 13:00:46 CET 2003 from du-tele3-168.mailbox.co.uk (195.82.121.168)

Peter Viney

Q Special edition – Songs That changed the world. This is a good read and mentions several songs / artists we’ve discussed recently. The idea is songs that influenced the direction of music, rather than ‘the best songs’. The essays on each of the 100 songs argue the case , are by good writers like Peter Doggett and have the headline “The Case for …”. ‘Like a Rolling Stone’ references the 1966 version (of course), but other songs (with good arguments) include ‘Stayin’ Alive’, ‘Last train to Clarksville’, ‘Je t’aime’ (Birkin & Gainsbourg again), ‘Purple Haze’, ‘You Really Got Me’, ‘This Land is Your Land’, ‘O Superman,’ ‘Heroin’, ‘Merry Xmas Everybody’, ‘I Can’t Be satisfied’, Abba’s ‘Waterloo,’ ‘Telstar,’ ‘Rumble’, ‘I Will Survive’ and ‘Tie A Yellow ribbon’. Eclectic. The one I took issue with most was ‘The End’ on which it says ‘The Case For: Bringing an intellectual gravitas to pop.’ Had they put ‘pseudo-‘ in front of intellectual, I’d agree.